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DHS Official Considered Shock Collars For Air Travelers
"The Washington Times is reporting that the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet. Plans for the device include subduing passengers remotely as well as onboard interrogation. There's even a promotional video."
Perhaps Paul Ruwaldt (the official named in this story) has been watching "The Coneheads" a bit too much, or not actually flying enough. Expressing interest is not quite the same as ordering mass quantities, but it's scary enough.
Flying into this country is becoming more and more of a hassle and every time that I fly outside the US, it is apparent that the DHS is completely corrupting business and pleasure travel at the expense of our freedoms and economy.
If our government seriously thinks this is a viable option, then we have truly lost and the slide towards a fascist government will be complete. Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying "Oh, well.... we intended this to be used for transporting criminals" or some such nonsense like that. This idea is one of the most absurd and dangerous ideas I've heard from my government in a long time and it moves us dangerously close to a threshold that will destabilize this country.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I thought that air travel was punishment enough already!
Kevin Smith on Prince
Life imitates "Mirror, Mirror." Swell.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
TFS liks to a blog post which itself links to part of a letter (page two, so we don't even get to see the whole letter). The video link tells us simply that a company called Lamperd Less Lethal would love to sell these devices to a government agency. There is absolutely no evidence presented that would justify the claim that "the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet". Why did this fake story even get posted?
Caveat Utilitor
It has to go around the neck to be a shock collar. Of course, I didn't RTFA, but the summary makes it sound like more of a "ObeyStrong" wristband. Quite fashionable when placed next to a livestrong and wriststrong band.
Hardly.
Look at the backgrounds on Chertoff, Zackheim, and etc.
Satan never had such a crew since the death of Erich Honecker and Yuri Andropov.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Timothy, wtf? Why is this in idle, where almost no one is going to bother looking at it (since many, many people avoid idle like the plague)? This needs to be seen by everyone, not just a few.
Also, it's NOT funny. DON'T LAUGH! This is scary, not funny.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
They don't force you to do any of that bullshit if you're flying your own plane, right?
that this is in idle. For a moment, I was preparing to think I would have to show my papers for entry into the USSA.
While, um, probably effective, what happens when one gets attached to the pilot and he gets shocked instead of the "terrorist"?
I guess if we actually allowed, the gov't would herald it as a prevention by taking down a whole plane of "terrorists".
import system.cool.Sig;
Living in the DC area, and seeing the Washington Times (owned by the unification church) in action, I don't consider it a reputable paper and would want some independent confirmation of this.
If you elect me to be president of the US I will dissolve the DHS, this is my one and only promise for my campaign.
The kind of shock these people would like to apply is the one applied to prisoners attempting to escape in The Running Man.
I require that this proposal be expanded to full body suits. I don't trust that a simple bracelet or collar can deliver the level of shock necessary to fight the terrorists.
I'd also like to see waterboarding apparatus installed in the bathrooms. Speed is of the essence, and taking the time to divert the plane to Gitmo for proper torture could be the few precious hours the terrorists need to steal our liberty.
Put a piece of tin foil across the electrodes so it won't shock me? Or rewire so it won't shock me? But I mean can air travel really get anymore degrading?
http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf
Hahaha, man.. The Onion has the best articles!
Hahaha... wait, wtf?!
%#$$%#@!!!
This system would help terrorists control all of the passengers on the aircraft. All the terrorist would have to do is take over the system and activate all of the wrist bands of the passengers to incapacitate them. After that resistance is futile.
I don't care about the shock collars, but for the love of god don't run the system on windows.
...why not just show them Slashdot's new interface?
Soon, the only way you'll be able to get onto a plane is if you look like this.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.
As much as I don't like Tasers, it makes more sense to have a Taser gun than Taser wristbands. Those wristbands have to either be activated individually by number - not happening in an attack - or all at once - pissing everyone off.
For those that want to get outraged, this is an area where big business (airlines) can be your friends. The airlines won't allow this. Anything that makes flying more of a pain reduces their profits - even things like the new security fees on airline tickets reduce their profits. They aren't going to pay more money (I'm guessing at least $15-a-bracelet for the materials, location tag, and shock element considering that a Taser costs hundreds of dollars) to piss off customers.
So, this won't happen.
As long as I can zap the screaming kid kicking the back of my seat. Or the obnoxious drunk who won't shut up. I can see it now. It would be like the Simpsons at the family counseling office all zapping each other. Very entertaining.
What?
If those Lost fuckers had these on we wouldn't have to suffer through that crappy show. They probably wouldn't have enough "bars" for the collars to call home. I obviously haven't watched the show since episode 7. All those people are already dead, right?
Winkey shortcut mapping for 64bit windows. WinKeyPlus
This isn't an Onion article, this is a real proposal? I might go along with it if they fit the kids with explosive collars like Battle Royale. "Go ahead, Junior. Kick the back of my seat one more time."
But seriously, what the hell? At least the train service is still sane, or at least was the last time I took it. Arrive at the Amtrak station, hand over your luggage, take your seat. You're get there and are on your train inside ten minutes. "But what if terrorists hijack the train? They might try crashing it into buildings! Think of the children!"
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
... is to use Shock collars on Government Officials and have the public vote on which should be activated when those officials go against the will of the public or when they are just stupid. Now that would be democratic.
alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls
are you sure this isn't already a film?
make it fun - give people weapons going on and sell the whole thing on pay per view....
Is there some magic incantation I can use to make this section disappear of my front page. I'm really not interested.
The major benefit is when they get attached to politicians, these bracelets would provide a form of instant feedback for their popularity. Maybe theirs could be fitted with an extra heavy shock capability to let them know when it's time to step down.
Democracy and freedom! wouldn't ya' just love it?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Please don't take off your shock bracelets before hijacking the plane. Thanks, Delta
For great justice, find the code to turn them all on at once.
as seen last night in irc, thank you nyu2
This will not improve air security. We have seen time and time again that when you use direct pain-causing devices like these on members of crowds, you tend to piss everyone else off, because they see it for the undisguised thuggery that it is. What was one person who was a disturbance is now a large angry rabble which is a threat to the whole aircraft. This will work, right up until it causes a major disturbance forcing the plane to make an emergency landing in a sane country where causing and then exacerbating a disturbance by playing about with stun bracelets is likely to go down badly.
After all of the complacency and apathy regarding erosion of civil liberties and privacy in the United States, we deserve this.
considered locking passengers in their seats after fitting them with "depends" and feeding them thorazine?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I was watching the video and it talked about the strengthening of cockpit doors and said that this measure should be completed by 2003. So when was this all new news???
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
If the TSA gets these for passengers, I want some for my userbase as well. I can come up for a wide variety of uses here in the office.
www.joking.net
one that constricts blood flow to the brain if the geolocating device detects that you have left your destination and strayed too far from where the "authorities" were told you'd travel to.
The guy who had his head blown off by a collar was probably field testing an early model.
That would certainly cut down on the kidnapping of tourist by terrorist groups in South America.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Wonder what Lincoln would say to this?
Its another attempt to bring back passenger trains (at taxpayer expense).
Never trust a man wearing a coat and tie!
Welcome aboard on Con Air!
And WaPo is a governmental propaganda outlet run by bilderburgers. So what is the real difference, moonies, bilderburgers, both control freaks, both use propaganda to influence you.
And quite frankly, odds are heavy that if you live in the DC area you are at least part of the overall governmental big brother problem by being a governmental worker or assisting them in some way as a private contractor. I don't know that for a fact, but odds are heavy. The entire system is corrupt and broken and no where is there any evidence whatsoever that insiders in government are mitigating anything, on the contrary, it all keeps going forward into goose stepping land. The government wouldn't be near as outrageously and negatively powerful if they didn't have legions of order followers. Until we the "other" folks in the nation start seeing governmental workers en masse just refusing to participate in any of their nefarious fascist schemes, they have no leg to stand on to complain. Cash the check, you are part of the problem, full stop. No whining or excuses either, no "exceptions to the rule". I've known a ton of government workers, every single one without exception, civil or military, is cognizant of fraud waste and abuse and the trampling of our rights and freedoms, yet it continues and gets worse daily. Goose step, lockstep, cash the check. Wonder why it goes on, I sure don't.
As to air travel, why people put up with that BS now is beyond me, I started boycotting air travel right after they started pushing homeland security crap, because it is an obvious dodge to get people conditioned to accept the police state. You put up with their crap, keep eating it with both hands, make excuses for yourself that you "have" to do it, and they'll keep adding more to your and everyone else's plate, and that is about it.
1. Chip every passenger with one of these sweet little gizmos.
2. Sell the right to activate one or two of the collars in-flight for a fee of $200.
3. Watch crying baby, overly recumbent seatmate, and seatback kicker annoyances disappear on your flight.
4. PROFIT!
First I needed a tinfoil hat, now I need a tinfoil collar or armband. Tinfoil is getting expensive with all the Patriot Act created demand for it.
A neck collar that explodes is way better:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103239/
Such abusive and controlling components warrant a resignation. In the US, we have liberty and rights. The obsessively paranoid need to be constrained and contained through the use of peer pressure to resign, so that they can subsequently crawl into the hole from whence they came. It's mind-boggling!
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
This could be a permanent solution to make everything a lot saver.
And because those bracelets would be uncomfortable to the wearer at some point why not implant the technology in the wearer.
We could even make a little ceremony out of it. At the age of six everyone gets their implant at a big "coming of age" party.
Why does this remind me to the prison scenes in the beginning of Running Man? As another poster already pointed out, since 9/11 high-jacking a plane will no longer work as passengers know that they are doomed and that their only chance is to fight back from the beginning. Also listening to the video I don't understand how the terrorists are able to get explosives on board, but can't manage to get the bracelet off...
Complain about the 8 hour tarmac delay? zzzzzt
Points to consider:
--Getting a quote on something costs nothing (see the "taxpayer's dollars" comment in TFA).
--Paying to have something developed further is SOP for government agencies--90% of it never goes anywhere
--Implicit in the above quote is that the most likely uses are in prisoner situations (I, for one, have no problem with this use case)
--Having it on paying air passengers is "conceivable"--> this is the sticking point for most of the ./ discussion. It is outrageous, insane, and fascist. It is not, however, close to reality (yet).
When they're ordering mass quantities, it's too late to do anything about it.
The company is a penny-stock company.
Washington Times did not report this story, it was a blog on their site.
The only source of information is at the penny-stock company. No attempt to validate the information was made, just a desperate company trying to stay afloat by posting what would be internal negotiation papers (hence, either false, or highly unprofessional).
The blogger states that the letter is from a DHS official, what does he have to say about this?
This was one article I was sure would be tagged "WhatCouldPossiblyGoWrong".... And instead, it was tagged "usa"???
I wonder if they decide to go with this proposal, if TSA might just forget to mention that the bracelet can shock you into submission, instead touting it's information storing and tracking capabilities.
A December 21, 2005, Federal Register has Mr. Ruwaldt's email address listed as: paul.ruwaldt@dhs.gov, or, alternately, paul.s.ruwaldt@tc.faa.gov. Maybe he needs to hear how taxpayers feel about his interest in fitting us with shock-collars while we're on business trips, or going on vacation?
Who gets to do the shocking? What would be great is if there was a system that would let fellow passengers decide who gets shocked. If, for example, 5-10 people request someone is shocked, then down they go. This would be a real incentive for parents to not let their kids run wild on planes. Imagine all the other rudeness that could be eliminated.
To authoritarian people, the very idea that the masses have freedom is a scary.
Whether true or not, this story shows a very real reaction some people have to idea that they can't control other people. Freedom is, amongst other things, is also based on a "trust." At some point, a free people will rebel against an increasingly oppressive government. I think we are seeing the U.S. government racing to reach a state of control and surveillance BEFORE people start to rebel en mass.
The race is to get to a point where there is no way the people can rebel without losing their jobs, savings, houses, lives, etc. This is why students and kids protest, because they don't have a life's work of savings to lose.
The irony is that the corrupt powers that be had better fix the economy pretty damn quickly, as people with a lot to lose are easier to control that people who have lost everything. Once we have a major depression, the ideologies of abortion, gun control, "family values," become second to jobs.
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
Didn't this used to be the plot of a Van Damme movie, only his one actually exploded. What happens if there's a bug in the software .. :)
davecb5620@gmail.com
I just wonder how difficult the arming mechanism would be to wirelessly jam or hack. The whole bracelet thing just seems like a huge target that any terrorist would want to gain control of.
I also wonder why the DHS is considering this even when the Department of Corrections won't use this in a prison.
You don't have to look farther than Battle Royale for the clinical trials.
As long as it's the shocks are cell-phone activated!
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying
These kinds of proposals aren't random; by making ridiculous suggestions like this, they move the boundaries of what is acceptable. Compared to shock collars, some of the other things they come up with will seem tame now.
What I don't understand is why people go for this bullshit. Why is it the government's responsibility to make air travel safe? Who cares? I've been flying for nearly 40 years, and the same risks we have today existed all that time and were just as obvious. And except for the fact that in 2001, the air planes plowed in a big building in Manhattan, 9/11 seems not much different from any of the numerous other plane hijackings.
People should just not vote for any president or representative supporting such measures.
Then I could easily find the frequency and codes to shock my brother relentlessly throughout the entire plane ride! It would be just like that Simpsons episode!
if it replaced all other forms of airport security.
The searches, metal detectors, x-rays, etc would all be unnecessary, so you could just walk up to the counter, show them your ticket, get your bracelet, and be ready to walk on the plane.
"The fact that someone is actually attempting to pass this off as a real news story, or the fact that some people here on /. are accepting it as a real news story"
Isn't this the same politically conservative Washington Times that's owned by the Moonies?
davecb5620@gmail.com
Does anybody remember the Running Man movie where neck collars with explosive bolts were attached to all prisoners? If a prisoner tried to run outside the containment field, their heads were blown off. I'm not seriously suggesting this idea.
I just had a rather hilarious mental image of all the passengers on a plane getting shocked mercilessly while some programmer in a dark room tries to figure out where the bug in the code is. Seriously though, what is to prevent a terrorist from stuffing a piece of canvas or other non conductive material between his skin and the bracelet? If it is too tight for that, passengers are going to give the airlines hell, because they are not going to like the idea of having their circulation cut off for hours at end.
Someone must've found the movies Battle Royale 1 & 2 . Shock collers that blow up?
There's no Freedom like UFP-dom
I think I'll hold out for the GPS tracking device that will eventually be planted under our skin. And I hate when people say, "but hey, if you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to be worried about". I want to say, "what if I am doing something wrong asshole"?
FAQs are evil.
Now what will those pesky Canadians think of next?!
pushing the button? (SSLR)
I first thought when I read it: 'Shock bracelet', that's to measure shocks, on say what acceleration cargo was subjected to, during handling... Seemed a bit weird, but hey, maybe planes trips are that bad and they need input on improving them :)
The actual type is more disturbing. And apparantly, plane trips *are* that bad (or getting there).
If this story is true, the "official" who even considered this monstrous violation of basic human rights and decency should be fired. We're not fucking animals but if they try this this shit, you just might see the animal inside us all.
why a package delivery company wanted to shock people on it's planes. Then I said OHHHHHHH DH *S* LMAO
My wife and I have always joked that they should just strip everyone down, and anesthetize them. If your "cargo" is naked and unconscious, they can't hijack the plane!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vSp_U0-bD84&feature=related
This technology is well-understood and widely available -- the canine shock collar first came into use in the 1950s. Today's models are highly refined, capable of variable shocks from "barely a tingle" to "FRY". (Note: as a professional dog trainer, this falls into my area of expertise.)
Setting aside the "Your agonizer, Komrade!" aspects for the moment... how much will this cost us in tax dollars? How many passengers are in the air at any one time, at a wild-assed guess about 50,000?? The most basic canine unit costs about $200, but that one won't be sufficiently reliable or securable for airline use, nor does it have enough range for a large terminal, so let's upgrade to the $700 unit (which has a range of up to one mile under ideal conditions). That's $35 million just to purchase the units.
[And the average lifespan, in daily use, is about 3 to 5 years, then it's off to The Collar Clinic, which charges about 30% of the value of the collar for repairs.]
As to hackability -- this has been a problem since way back; one of the design challenges was ensuring that the transmitter from one collar didn't make another go off by mistake. And there are only so many radio frequencies available, and that too is old tech.
If I were bent on causing chaos on a plane, I wouldn't even get on board myself. I'd hide a scanning transmitter in the luggage, which would start transmitting "FRY" across the spectrum at random intervals. Passengers would never know who was going to get shocked next, or when the next shock was coming. Wouldn't that do wonders for air travel! (Encrypted signal required, you say? Okay, I'll just set my trigger to hit the electronics AFTER the decryption point.)
These devices are generally safe, as they are designed to be painful yet harmless. But someone with a weak heart or epilepsy could be in big trouble -- on FRY the shock is similar to a weedburner-type electric fence; it'll put you right on your ass. Even on "tickle", what happens to someone wearing a pacemaker??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Capitol idea! I canâ(TM)t wait. And if it is good enough for the American People it is good enough for the American
leaders⦠every idiot politician with a shock collar and the âoeAmerican Peopleâ vote by phone (and if American Idol is any indicationâ¦).
A friend of mine had an interesting idea to change our form of government⦠in every election the people vote twice⦠at the beginning of - and at the end of every term of office. When someone is voted into office they stand on a box and have a noose placed around their neck. When their office expires there is another vote⦠as to whether or not to kick the box out from under them...
Your civil liberties are safe for at least a day while the clowns at lamperdlesslethal.com put out some server fires. BTW, youtube to the video.
Fuck'em and their shitty "scare the hell out of them" business model.
Somewhere among my older posts, there was a really long one about how air travel will be in ten years. I took the current state of air travel, which is getting worse with each passing day, and extrapolated. The gist of it is that plane tickets cost many, many times more than what they should, plus you have to pay additional huge fees for every "extra" that used to be included for free, so that nobody will fly because it will be cheaper to buy a car and then drive it over there. Then you get to the airport and security is so crazy that nobody even makes it to the door of the plane. You may as well line people up as they walk into the front door of the airport and march them directly into buses headed for big jails, because everyone is a terrorist until proven otherwise. I really thought I exaggerated in that long post. And you know the scary part? I now think that I was being much too conservative. The government has no idea what it's doing. That's the bottom line. They are completely inept.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
Until the terrorists figure out that you can circumvent it with a small strip of aluminum foil.
/. is becoming filled with so many morons. It's useless to read the comments because so many people don't read the article at all. Even the comments on the article show that the people that went to the commentary didn't even read it all. I don't even think the commentator checked his facts. He took a half story and extruded a scare story so continue the churn of anti-bush hate.
fail
I found the problem with your post.
I don't mind wearing one of these bracelets on a plane. But, on one condition - when these things are proven successful, all politicians have to wear them. And, control is based on an online poll which voting-age American citizens have access to.
Might as well have everyone strip down and wear hospital gowns on the plane. Pre-flight enema, optional.
Fiat Lux.
I'm sure this has been said before, but passenger trains are worth considering in addition to road and air travel.
I've never taken a serious train ride, but it seems like a reasonable means of going up and down the east coast. Just take a laptop and pretend you're in the office during that time. It's probably the cheapest and lowest hassle way to travel.
I'm sure DHS and Big Oil are working on that though too, though.
Move all sig!
Check out the news channels in US. 24 hours of catastrophies, war scenes, murder, police scenes etc.
It always struck me when entering the canteen in our US facilities and seeing the big news screens.
Also the thread level "informations" on the airport. Yet another thing that fuels that constant fear without being of any help. What do I do with the information that we are on thread level orange? By the way, has there ever been another level than orange? Seems to be the default.
My wife and I flew to California for a holiday the February after 9/11 and deliberately went around wearing the stars and stripes (her a lapel badge, me a rugby shirt) to show our unity.
So what's stopped us returning to the US since? The ludicrous controls that have been introduced since that trip. These cuffs would put the seal on it: under no circumstances would I ever board a flight where I was required to wear one of these.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
terrorist's butt would be what spelled the end of americans traveling by air.
This shows I haven't learned to think inside the box and realize that the DHS would devise a scheme equally effective and not need those pesky terrorists to do it!
-- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
Leave your luggage on the platform you are merely being relocated to the east. It will catch up with you. Next stop the picturesque village of Sobibor.
... until members of the US Congress, the vast majority of whom fly on commercial flights regularly, accidently gets zapped by one of these things.
Personally, I think they all should be fitted with these things and zapped with these things on a regular basis, say, just before they vote on any bill. The quality of the work performed by the Congress will probably improve!
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
Keep your knickers on my man, you noticed this was filed under "Funny", right?
Love that sig, btw.
I spent a few years in the Canadian Military, and we have the same mindset up here. Every year my unit was allocated $X for purchasing rounds for the range. During the first Gulf War, my unit was deployed to the Middle East (and I sadly didn't get to go). When our range qualification time came up, they had us (about 20 out of 250 or so troops) drive out to the range, and then fire off enough rounds to account for the entire unit qualifying - even though they were deployed to a *war* - because otherwise next year's budget would have excluded the money for the rounds required on the range.
At the same time they had an initiative that offered a reward for suggestions that helped the military save money. The obvious submission garnered no response of course
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Their website also has something about a Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System that will decide who gets shocks and when.
They also seem to be building some sort of "Enrichment Center."
Philip Sandifer's academic website
The war of 1812.
The British Burned down the White House in Washington D.C.!
To the British it was part of the many French Campaigns that they were fighting around the world at the time. A few battles in a pro-French ex-colony were relatively unimportant to you Brits, but we took the sacking of our capitol pretty seriously.
The US had the largest Merchant navy in the world at the time. The commercial shipping interests had attracted away many ex-Royal Navy Sailors with better pay and benefits. In the wars with France, the Royal Navy began forcing sailors who were former British subjects to fight for Britain once again, something called 'Impressment'.
The US declared War on Britain in protest and tried to invade Canada (didn't go well for the US).
After Britain and France made peace, the US followed (it just took a while for the news to travel across the pond).
Cellphone as it may cause a spark!
Perhaps a better device as opposed to an external collar would be a rectal probe. Less likely to cause a spark and some people may enjoy it.
During take off and landing the devices must also be deactivated to prevent interfering with sensitive aircraft electronics!
What Bovine Droppings we are constantly fed and most accept it.
If a situation arose, I guess you just "knock out" all the passangers.
I guess the air-marshal would be easy to spot (the one without the bracelet)
"Attention, this is the captain, there will be a slight increase in air-fare today. Please reach into your wallets and hand the flight crew an extra $10 or else."
Or this scenario: "I have a bomb wired to this dead-man switch"....... .
Realistically, how long do you think the terrorist will last when he stands up and says, "I'm taking over the air plane?" All the passengers know they are dead anyway so they might as well attempt to tackle the guy. No shock collar needed.
As much as I love government bashing, this seems to be an overreaction to a small section of the letter that DHS employee Paul S. Ruwaldt (PDF) sent.
Basically, he says that this bracelet is a good idea for the temporary detention of suspected illegal aliens and/or criminal elements and expands on this as well as other similar uses.
The only mention of use in planes is "... it is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes."
No mention of "collaring" the whole plane -- and, well, no mention on how it could improve air security either.
Seriously - is the USA deliberately trying to damage its economy or what?
This sort of story is just one more thing to put off visitors to the USA. I routinely fly internationally and now route my flights so they avoid the US - ever since I was photographed and fingerprinted like a common crook just to visit friends in Seattle. A co-worker of mine said "I wouldn't mind so much if everyone else treated them the same as they treat us." A Japanese friend tells me Japan has begun recording similar details of US citizens visiting Japan, including forces personnel on commercial flights and it was not well received.
A friend of mine turned down a great promotion to the US from the UK because he "Didn't want to be hassled." every time he came back into the US from business abroad, especially because he was a black Londoner. His company acquiesced and gave him a role in Europe where he has thrived.
I work for a multi-national Fortune 500 company (hence AC post) and folks dislike travel to the USA, especially the way they are treated by US officials. We have recently received company-wide advice to not travel with laptops or PDA's which may be confiscated at will for an indeterminate period - and we are a US HQ'd company! It's rather hard these days to do business on the road without this stuff! One pointer even said carry a *spare* laptop in another bag - just in case!
I overheard a conversation between an American and a German where the American chap was wondering why the German's company (which he was quite impressed with) wasn't doing business in the USA "Too hard." came the reply. "We worry about the level of litigation in America and the US is not welcoming to foreign businesspeople anymore." The American chap shrugged and (sadly) agreed.
This is just business but there must be a hit to the massive tourism industry in the USA as well. None of this can be good for US business interests.
What I would like to know is when the sugested system is going to be applied to stupid politicians! When enough of the population in the politicians district think he/she is being inefensibly stupid, the collar gets triggered. I think politicians would learn pretty soon to not get the collar triggered. Or they would quit politics, which might be just as good.
There are no "plans for the device" on the part of DHS. The idea for outfitting passengers has originated from the company trying to sell them, Lamperd FTS. Why? Because selling tens of millions of these bad boys is a lot more exciting to the business than selling a few thousand.
By reading the response from the DHS (http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf) you'll see exactly what they think of the idea. DHS asks for a written proposal, and outlines the areas of interest for them, which are almost solely around prisoner detention and transport. The official also finds it "conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes," but the tone of the letter effectively takes Lamperd's pie in the sky multi-billion dollar contract off the table. Lamperd sends DHS a brochure with their cockamamie idea, DHS responds saying "we can see how you got there. Now here's how *we* would use it, so send us a proposal that focuses on our needs."
That's it. End of story. Yet some kook at the Washington Times puts two and two together and gets ZOMG THE BUSHNAZIS WANT TO PUT SHOCK COLLARS ON US!!!11!!!!ONE!!1!!
Such as my mother. When 9/11 occurred she picked me up from school (in Florida) and was looking up in the sky thinking planes were raining down around America, afraid they would strike the bridge we were crossing, etc.
> So TSA's main job now is justifying their job.
This is why we need to get rid of the DHS and TSA. Because our liberty will never be safe until they're gone. There will always be some nebulous "threat" that they need to "protect" us from with ridiculous, half-baked, counter-productive methods.
If the Republicans wanted to win any measure of popular support back, they'd impeach Bush themselves and ax both departments for being wastes of money.
Nope, not enough power to do loopings, but a barrel roll has been demonstrated. Rumor is that it's actually been demonstrated on serial number 2, the first demo 747 that wasn't a static mock-up.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
PUT AIR PASSANGERS TO SLEEP! Charge less than 1/10th and stack us like wood!
I can't fly and I doubt anyone else can either!
Promise faster flights and even the business "I work while I fly" types will submit.
I live in the southeast.
The region is packed full of these "scared people".
The flags on display here remind me very much of the prevalence of the swastika in nazi germany, and people here think bush is the next best thing since apple pie.
Interestingly and predicatbly enough, a large number of these people are also creationist, and in the past couple years a so called "psychic" on a nearby road bulldozed her tar paper shack and built a 6000 square foot mc-mansion because her business has taken off so much.
This region is where things like kinoki foot pads get shipped to by the train-full.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
what happens when i spill my coke on it? what happens if it goes off while im touching the armrest, which is wired to the planes audio system? where are we going to charge all of these bracelets? what if mine doesnt fit? do we put them on children? of course, this is from the same wing of the government that brought us duct tape and plastic sheeting to defeat anthrax....right?
Good people go to bed earlier.
The only weapon you have is your vote.
The fact is, Bush got reelected. I don't know why so many people are bashing the government they themselves elected.
Blue glowing brain: "50 quatloos on 3F"
Green glowing brain: "100 quatloos on 4C"
Hears music: Dunduh duh duh duh duh duh dunduh duh duh...BRrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlEEEE! BrllrlrlrllrlrlrlEEEE!
Why can't we go back to using jumpers to configure slot adapter cards? Why? I say!
They've only expressed an interest in using it on prisoner transport. It would be used for mass-murderers and sex offenders, not innocent women and children.
Another case of RTFA, methinks.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
Telecommuting and video conferencing instead of flying is already happening where I work, and it works reasonably well too.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
This paranoid world view is the result of long-term use of stimulantia ("coke" or "speed") that has become epidemic in certain circles. Speed or cocaine induced paranoia becomes a permanent illness when regularly used for only months.
For those paranoid, other people are threats to be managed as cattle. A mandatory drug test for people in those "circles" is the answer.
That sound my friends is the sound of the /. community following a blogger as he leaps to conclusions right off a cliff. First, there's the fact that the DHS letter contains only a vague mention of "improving airport security," while mentioning some other very specific uses. I can think of a number of ways that the bracelet could be used to "improve airport security" that don't involve forcing every passenger to wear one. The blogger assumes that this vague reference to airport security means that DHS wants to replace the boarding pass with the bracelet. And you know what you do when you assume...
Second. Anyone else notice that the promo video (from which he gets all his information) is at least 5 years old, and likely a year older than that? That means that this video was made barely a year after 9/11. At that point people were entertaining any idea that might possibly prevent a repeat of the hijackings. The letter is much more recent, but still around 2 years old. It seems to me (and I admit this is purely anecdotal) that the number of restrictions being declared have tapered off. The most recent one I can remember was the liquids one (which was in response to intel around some threats of liquid explosives) and has been in place for a little more than a year.
Personally, I'll raise a fuss if I hear there's a pilot program under way (there's no way that something like this would get rolled out without one). Until then, I refuse to jump around screaming like a paranoid delusional individual.
IANAL... But I play one on
Finally! Something is being done about all the highjacking going on in airplanes. It seems like every other day there's another plane with an unruly passenger or highjacker of some sort with large volumes of dangerous weapons. It's about time they put in some provisions to make sure people feel safe on airplanes again.
Also, I'm selling some rocks that can keep cougars away, if anyone is interested.
A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
How likely would the gov't be to have a system wide disable all passengers on all airlines capability? Think system glitch or hacker....I mean it is not really likely that some little brainiac out in the wild wouldn't get a "charge" out of something exciting like that.
I don't understand this statement. Why would an IRA bombing be less scary than an Islamic bombing? Did they fill the bombs with a lovely rose scented aroma so that survivors would feel better in the aftermath of the blast?
Cow Cube
Because the terrorist leader does not learn from experience and revise his strategy and tactics.
He does not trade in his box cutters for a binary nerve gas.
He does not find some excuse to get his people on board the charter flight to Orlando and Disney World, - 250 very young kids and their mothers on board - or the senior's excursion to the casinos in Atlantic City.
Because it is dead certain that leadership will emerge in a vacuum, and trivially easy to subdue a combat-trained team bent on mass murder and self-destruction.
Because passengers will remember only the heroism aboard United 93 and not its fatal crash into the fields of rural Pennsylvania.
I'm tellin' ya, those guys down to DHS are funnier than a rubber crutch. Really, they come up with some whoppers. Imagine, a shock bracelet. Like I can type with that thing on. Or go to the bathroom. What happens if I spill my $2 Coke on it?
Seriously, proof once again that Jay Leno has the easiest job in all of the world. Made so because, clearly, he has the entire US federal government working for him, generating mountains of good stuff for his writers to merely sort and index.
You can't make this stuff up.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
...where they tend to feel less threatened to speak their real opinions - like when their drunk. It is then when people say they rather have safety over privacy. And yes, the sad truth is that it could include me and you - we're humans after all.
Real truth ? We should not let fear judge, as it has a tendency to chose the shortest path to downfall.
Seriously. They lapped up the scare propaganda about terrorists, gay marriages, Mexicans and abortions. Then they fall all over themselves to give up their rights and liberties for the illusion of safety from these not-so-serious 'threats'.
How many people have you heard willing to let the gov't snoop into their lives and bedrooms if it will "stop one more terrorist attack" or "stop one more drunk driving death"...even though sober drivers kill the most people.
Oh well.
Blar.
Sheet of plastic, anyone? A miscreant would have a mitigating plan in place. This would anly be useful against joe drunk.
Damn, that's a terrorist's wet dream. If they were to implement this, they'd basically set up the whole plane with a way to disable virtually everyone who would resist. Brilliant.
Instead of having over 100 disruptive people to fight with, suddenly the hijackers would have 4 to 8 people (the flight crew). I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be hard to disrupt the wrist bands. Wouldn't it be a simple matter of putting an insulating strip in between? That could be complicated, but a thin piece of plastic would probably do the job very nicely. i.e., any drivers license or credit card.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
I'm a little more concerned about the tracking than the "torture" part, thank you very much.
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
Many many things that come from/are in the US, among them some of technological or natural origin, fascinated me. They still do. I'd really love to see some of them with my own eyes. But, given the current situation and treatment of foreigners who intend to travel to the US (or through the US), I see no reason to set even the smallest toe on US soil. As long as certain people up there don't get the picture, your image and reputation will go downhill with almost free-fall acceleration. I'm sorry to say that, but really many many people see it that way.
Those who are possessed by nothing, possess everything. Morihei Uyeshiba
What are they going to do, hit the hijackers over the head with the aircraft? Firstly, only combat aircrew wear oxygen masks at all times; commercial aircrew only don them during emergencies (and under certain other conditions required by regulations). Any hijackers who manage to breach the flight deck would view with suspicion the flight crew grabbing for their masks. The first option might have some hope of succeeding if the flight crew had ample warning of a hijacking in progress, but the only way to depressurize the cabin quickly enough to incapacitate the hijackers would be to open a window. Not a good idea, especially at cruising altitudes. As for aerobatic maneuvers...boy oh boy. Can you say "structural failure"?. Commercial aircraft are not designed for the stresses of aerobatics, and may well become uncontrollable in unusual attitudes, such as inverted flight or vertical climbs. Besides which, no airliner has the excess thrust available to climb vertically. Just watch a heavily-laden 747 laboring off the runway and you'll realize this.
However....in all fairness to your suggestion, I should mention the bizarre case of FedEx Flight 705 in 1994, during which a soon-to-be-terminated deranged FedEx pilot who was hitching a ride on a FedEx DC-10, attacked the crew minutes after takeoff with a speargun and hammers which he had brought aboard. His intention was to kill the crew and use the aircraft in a kamikaze attack on FedEx headquarters. The captain and flight engineer were able to subdue him after a long and bloody struggle, during which the co-pilot, despite suffering severe head trauma from a hammer attack, threw him off balance with violent maneuvers. All three crew members and the attacker were critically injured during the struggle, and none of the flight crew were able to regain flight status because of the severity of their wounds. They never flew commercially again, and were damned lucky to survive at all. And this was against just one individual. Imagine what would have happened if they had been fighting two or three, armed with blades instead of spearguns and hammers. Violent maneuvers were a desperate last resort, and shouldn't be considered as a strategy. I don't know which pilots told you that they're "confident" of managing hijackers that the passengers couldn't, but they'd be well advised to acquaint themselves with the horrific ordeal that the crew of FedEx 705 suffered before they say any such thing.
Preventing access to the flight deck in the first place is much more effective and realistic than attempting to overcome one or more armed intruders, while maintaining control of the aircraft. As for arming the flight crew...well, even El Al, all of whose pilots are trained, active military personnel, thinks that armed flight crew is a very bad idea.
They try to demonstrate the premise that explosive detection technology is inadequate by pointing to the fact that such technology would have been useless in getting the 9-11 attackers (because they used the planes themselves as their bombs rather than bringing bombs on board). Later, they talk about the new and improved cockpit doors and how a terrorist could still get in with the use of plastic explosives. But what they fail to address is how the terrorist would have gotten the plastic explosives onto the plane in the first place, because pre-boarding explosive detection facilities are, to the best of my knowledge, reliable to the extreme.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Could be used to bypass these bracelets after all. Or cloth, could be used as insulator. Nacked flying only! I think they should also put explosive bracelets on everybody instead.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
There are still some issues. What if the bracelet can somehow be shielded so that it won't get a signal? Well it could be done with constant beacon, and if you shield it you get shocked. But what if the beacon fails? All ppl collapse in the airport? Ok there could be a mesh network too so that all bracelets work even then. But if there is a fire... everybody runs you get stuck.. ppl get away from range the beacon already failed and while trying to escape you get shocked... hmmm. fun. If you are a terrorist with a detonator button in your hand and you get shocked... wouldn't the shock get you to push the button? Wow our brave air marshall just fried the whole plane. Thx...
Perfect! We put the shock collars on all DHS and when they try to behave like the Stasi, we shock the crap out of them.
"This shampoo bottle contains 4.01 oz, we'll have to give you the anal probe". "Bad Nazi! No biscuit!!" ZAP!
This phenomenon is not just limited to the Military. Poor budget planning like this happens all over in the Government and the private sector.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
... go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as ANIMALS.
and fixed that for YOU!
(MOVES ELECTRODES TO HEAD; SETS VOLTAGE TO "FRY")
... *all* your sit-on-zems as VEGETABLES.
and fixed { ZAP!} ....me
A ticket from city A to city B will cost you around $250. The same ticket will cost a government employee around $700. The only difference is that the government employee can not be bumped. I'd guess that the collars would probably end up somewhere around $2,000.
Dude, quoting Noam Chomsky is *not* the best way to win converts to the prospect that you're capable of rational thought.
This is a loony law and TSA is a joke, but Chomsky's said things just as loony.
put them on the people that look suspicious like 9 year olds and the little old lady with a walking cane.
You people have NO sense of humor.
1) The airlines won't foot the bill for the equipment, the additional personnel to issue / remove these bands, or the training involved. 2) As mentioned before the only way this could actually be used in a real attack situation is if all collars were activated en masse. There won't be enough time to figure out which passenger is the one emerging through the smoke to attack the cockpit. 3) We can't even figure out a way to allow ipods and bluetooth deviced to be used on the plane without "messing with navigation equipment" so how are we going to get a few hundred wireless receivers and a transmitter working? 4) How many days would it take for somebody to steal one of these, reverse-engineer it, and post instructions for pm the Internet for disabling the device? 5) How many script kiddies will use those instructions to spoof the signal and set off peoples' wrist bands at random? 6) How much will the first lawsuit be for somebody whose pace maker was messed up by the electric shock from their wrist band? Or the first kid that suffers real injury because they use a one-size-fits-all shock that has to be strong enough to take down that 300 pound guy snoring next to you in coach. The idea may be interesting to think about, but is no more feasible than the eternal myth about congress passing a law to tax emails.
If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power. -- Daniel Webster
Although I live overseas: "No thanks, I'll walk". Need to feed those short positions on airline stocks anyway. However, DHS might give these a try as headbands at the Christmas party.
...I like the idea. It's really no different than the Taser guns being used right not in police agencies all around the world. I think few would argue that *many* potentially hazardous confrontations with police and the public have been averted by the user of these non-lethal weapons.
Some people say that another hijacking is "unlikely" to happen because we've learned from 9/11. Interesting that pre-9-11, many were saying hijackings in this country were unlikely to happen because we learned from other terrorist hijackings in other countries. Yes, it's unlikely but there is a big difference between unlikely and impossible.
Granted, these bracelets wouldn't guarantee that another terrorists attack wouldn't happen. But these, combined with biometric technologies and better trained airline staff, could mean it's just about impossible for them to use planes in a second attack.
Yeah, personally, I like the idea.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
"It was collateral damage." ...
"I really didn't mean it."
"He looked real mean."
"... smelled bad"
"... hadn't paid their taxes"
"... didn't fill their sales quota"
"... wet their pants"
"... wouldn't stop crying"
Insulated elbow length gloves with a nice electrically conductive outer surface.
Well, if we want to make it easier for terrorists to take over a plane, this'll do it. For one, it's dead easy to defeat -- a piece of aluminum foil shorting the contacts with a piece of rubber against the skin for insulation would easily be slipped into place, and I'm sure it wouldn't exactly be hard to trigger every band in the plane at once, after they figure out what codes are needed to do so.
I agree, they are in the government but they live in a state of fear. I flew into Washington, DC for a quick 2 day trip. My first time in the capitol. I could not believe the police presence in the city. There were at least 2-3 cops on nearly every street in the area. And the monuments/government buildings had dozens of cops.
It's an area that's driven by fear.
I was actually throwing around this semi-SF super-short story idea were people would be chained to the seat in front of them when flying - seems the morons out-scienced me on that one!
I think we should just give in and let them tag and bag us. Collars, listening devices, everything - fighting it is just way too much hassle. This is how democracy ends, not with a bang...
IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
I'm quite afraid, and I know many people who are.
Though we're afraid of the government, and pointedly not afraid of terrorists, drugs, sex on TV, homosexuals, athiests, global warming, steroid use by major league atheletes, et cetera.
How about giving baseball bats to all the passengers boarding a plane instead?
(Not my idea, someone was suggesting it in a video I can't find a link to a few years back)
More.
Sig this!
Well to start out with. How are the crew members going to target just the terroists bracelet. I would suspect they couldn't and that all the people in the proximity of the signal would go into seizures. A small price to pay if your the one holding the braclet but not for all the screaming passengers.
But then wouldn't a terrorist just take their bracelet off, and maybe switch it with a look alike? Or just have a synthetic skin patch underneath that was non-conductive. Then the stewardess would be pushing her remote over and over and moving it around sending all those near into screaming shock as the terroist smiled and raised his gun higher.
But wait theirs more. Wouldn't a terrorist have his own shock unit and we have handed him the ability to subdue everyone on a plane for free? Well free to him expensive for us. Or if encrypted well he would just have to take over the planes unit to do the same.
Well then we might have to invest in biometrics on the shock unit so only a coded steward or stewardess could operate it.
But wait, what if they are sick, you would have to have the ability to recode it on-site. Well a terrorist could do that.
Well its a good product if you can sell it and have someone stupid enough to buy it. It looks like a way to take our money, take our freedom and make us vulnerable to attack all at the same time.
Sometimes it just amazes me how these stories evolve. Let me start off by saying that the Department of Homeland Security's Science & Technology Directorate nor TSA have been pursuing shock bracelets for airline passengers as alleged by the Washington Times Blog. This allegation stemmed from a misleading video posted on the Lamberd Website which depicts an ID bracelet that would contain identifying information as well as the ability to stun the wearer. The company claims to connect use of such a device to DHS and TSA, but no discussions between these agencies has ever taken place. This all originated from a meeting held two years ago with a private company representative (not Lamberd) who proposed bracelet technology in response to the TSA's desire to find less-than-lethal means to detain an apprehended suspect. The bracelet was never intended to replace boarding passes, contain ID information or be worn by all passengers as asserted in the Lamberd video and discussed in the Washington Times Blog. The hypothetical use of the bracelet would have been for transporting already apprehended prisoners and detainees at prisons and border patrol facilities, and DHS was looking to see if there were potential air travel applications for apprehended suspects. This concept was never funded or supported by the DHS or TSA and hasn't even been discussed for two years. The letter circulating throughout the blogosphere from Paul Ruwaldt was not addressed to Lamberd and merely states the DHS was interested in learning more about the technology. Neither side followed up. DHS/TSA does NOT support the asserted use and has not pursued the development of such technology.
I know I'm on /. and all, but after RTA. I
It's a BLOG ! Not a news article. And should be treated as such.
The letter is a PDF on lamperdlesslethal.com itself. Nothing pointing back to the .gov sites said anything about this tech.
Just do a search for P. JEFFREY BLACK & JEFFREY DENNING, and you'll see this BLOG has no credibility.
But that would be why it made it to /.
Do I have to turn off my shock collar prior to take of? I mean, it does fall under the umbrella of 'All electronic devices,' right?
What a great way to get little Johnny from kicking the back of your seat. :)
The difference is that in the private business, you probably get rewarded for inventing something that can cut costs.
When you're working with the government, you get punished (i.e. get less money) if you manage to save some.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I guess you haven't seen Bush give a speech in "these post 9/11 times" ;-)
Seriously, the current POTUS battle cry was, and continues to be: "you have nothing to fear, but any US citizen who doesn't give me carte blanche, and instead dares to question my actions, and therefore supports the terrorists, who could blow you up any time in this post 9/11 world."
I'm thinking there might be a few sheep who bought, and continue to buy, his bullshit.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
read anything more than the summary?
Like this comment from a spokesperson from the Department of Homeland Securitys Science & Technology Directorate:
"The hypothetical use of the bracelet would have been for transporting already apprehended prisoners and detainees at prisons and border patrol facilities, and DHS was looking to see if there were potential air travel applications for apprehended suspects."?
It looks like the answer is no.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/users/S&Tspokesman/
Like the video shows - what stops him (or her) from just cutting the bracelet off?
Also - when the airline crew stand up to subdue the passenger - how do they selectively do this and not shock anyone around him or her? I've seen pilot's carry plane tickets as well - are they wearing these?
Personally I'm starting to suspect a cabal of Tourist Agencies in Asia and Europe has been quietly pushing more and more of these insane airplane and U.S. border procedures.
Think about it - more and more Europeans and Asians are staying away from the US, opting instead to either stay at home or visit Europe or Asia.
Business travelers are staying away from the US as well, asking their US counterparts to come on over instead.
Okay, so mayby they aren't behind it, but it certainly makes more sense than the "it's for your own protection" idiocy you keep hearing.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
You sure that was the reason? From a different country's military perspective, we couldn't really return opened boxes of ammo and every round had to be accounted for. The easiest way to account for them was to fire them and return the brass. The rule we went by was once it was opened the whole thing had to be fired.
I've been told the artillery guys will actually bury live arty rounds for the same reason.
Would this affect my pacemaker?
(Assuming I had one, of course..)
-Myke
Dear Sir,
Love the almondine. Hate the spam.
Fifty Thousand Quatloos to the passenger that defeats Captain Kirk!
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
How much you wanna bet this doesn't touch the business and executive class customers. Hint to terrorists: buy first class tickets.
I had been asleep (I had a lot to drink the night before and no early classes) and she rings me, tells me the WTC and the pentagon were blown up. I subconsciously always hated irrational fear to a level of disdain that would become almost paralyzing in the near future after 9/11, so I asked "Is NORAD ok? " "What?" "Ok, thanks, talk to you later." I turned on the telivision and watched the towers fall from my bed thinking, "Wow, that's horrible." but never really "oh shit I'm going to die." The only thing that the new century has proven beyond our limitless ability to lose our shit is our equally limitless capacity to forget the things that didn't turn out to be real. Anthrax! Anthrax is everywhere! It's in the mail, the airport, they're putting it into the rivers! Remembering is important because if you don't remember that the boy who cried wolf was a lying prick then he'd never get eaten and you'd never have a moments peace.
Why not just shoot people on sight as they arrive?
Here's a better idea: Instead of shocking, just turn those collars into miniature bombs. After all, the authorities _must_ be correct, right? Small flick of a button, a small boom, and one less terrorist! And if they're wrong... wait, they can be wrong?
You should try this: http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/magazine/16-07/pl_print For example, see question number 2... You have to put into perspective the actual risk vs perceived risk.
Why don't the terrorists, unruly passengers, cult members, or law-abiding citizens who have nothing better to do just take off the shock bracelet before they wreak havok on a plane?
The advert is sadly amusing in a way. Note
The face of the example terrorist is Islamic. Nothing like playing on a fear.
The business man returning home to his family - playing on warm and fuzzies - will be happy to accept this to avoid the REAL FEAR (there is fear isn't there, really there is) of a hijack.
In the current situation I don't fear a hijack when I fly. If I had to wear one of these, maybe it's time to invest in long sleeve plastic t-shirts, or at least long sleeved t-shirts with sufficiently insulating ends to the arms. Not that I want to hijack a plane - just that I don't like the idea of a remote kill switch at all. I don't have that trust to hand over my life and freedom to that level.
Odd as I may be putting a lot of trust in the pilot, but the pilot has self interest in keeping us all alive and if all else fails I can still hope that I can act. With this that is removed.
.. "Blame Canada, blame Canada...."
No more I say.
I've thought about that myself on occasion. I can't really imagine what a difficult choice it would be for military personnel: Follow my orders and fight this 'Domestic Insurgence', turn and walk away because I really don't want to fight my countrymen (even the ones I don't like), or join the mob (whose views I happen to agree with). If you fight on either side, you better hope you picked the side that ends up winning, and if you chose not to fight you better hope the whole thing results in a new government. I'm not one for making big descisions, so I'd probably end up flipping a coin.
**This has been a message from the voice of Wisdom 8**
What would Schneier Say? The scariest part about this system is what happens when the wrong people (who might even work for the airlines and be thought to be the "right" people) get control of it. Obviously any real hijacker is going to cut the thing off before starting the hijacking. So, much like Microsoft's copy protection systems that seem to only punish those of us who are playing nice, and barely inconvenience the scoundrels, this system will only work to punish the innocent. If DHS is actually interested in this product based on that video, then DHS needs a crash course in consumer skepticism, before they purchase some magic anti-terrorism beans.
Should the system be triggered accidentally or maliciously, you may experience voiding of the bladder and bowels, muscle convulsions, heart failure or death. Please be assured that his behaviour is normal.
If you are a terrorist, please do not remove this bracelet before attempting to take over the aircraft, as this is strictly against regulations. Please also ensure that you have not accidentally disabled your bracelet by placing a piece of foil-backed chewing-gum wrapper under the bracelet to short-circuit the contacts, and/or inadvertently slipping a section of insulating sheet between the contacts and your skin, rendering it ineffective.
If you intend to hijack the aircraft, please ensure that your bracelet is in place and functioning properly before stating your passenger ID clearly to the stewardess, who will relay it to the pilot, along with your demands.
Please do not remove your bracelet and attach it to the stewardess's neck.
Please do not abuse the bracelet's command system by using it to incapacitate your fellow travelers.
Please also refrain from connecting your bracelet's electronics to the aircraft power subsystems, as this may damage the aircraft's power, control and communications subsystems should the bracelet be activated.
Please be aware that you have been issued with this personal high-voltage system for the duration of the flight on the strict understanding that it is not to be used as a weapon, to inflict damage on the airplane's power systems or electronics, or to threaten or hurt your fellow passengers or air crew. The devices should not under any circumstances be used to aid the takeover of an aircraft, and any such use will be prosecuted to the full extent under the law.
Thank you for your cooperation, and enjoy your flight.
Eric Baird
Does anybody else feel this reeks of "guilty until proven innocent".
And won't just a little tinfoil covering the bracelet render it useless? Tin foil hat people: terrorists want you to recycle your old hats.
How is it supposed to work? you have to get the terrorist seat number? and with that get his bracelet id? so you can shock him?? or is it a "point and click" way to administer the shocks?
Also how tied will the bracelet be placed?? I'm almost sure there will always be room for a isolation device to slip between the skin and the bracelet... (a thin rubber layer maybe?)
no use... if it takes more than 5 minutes to give the terrorist a shock, and no use if the terrorist can get into the plane with a thin rubber layer that he can place between the bracelet and his skin to avoid (or reduce) the shock...
useless crap
In Europe we had regular aerial bombardment that turned some cites into rubble. It kinda gives one a sense of perspective when a few people get killed by terrorists. It's small stuff. Far more people get killed by cars, or bad hospital hygiene, or rotten diet. Terrorism's way down the list.
One of the problems we started having towards the end of the period when the IRA were active, was that when a member of the public found a bomb, they'd have this tendency to pick it up and carry it to the local police station, which didn't exactly impress the desk sergeants. One of the cases that I thought was funniest was when some people discovered a ticking nail bomb in a sports bag in Brixton. They gathered around the nail bomb wondering what to do. Then one of them decided to take action. He decided that it was quite a nice sports bag, and it was going to be destroyed when the bomb went off, so if nobody else minded, he was having the bag. So this guy walks up to the ticking bomb, carefully lifts it out of the bag, sets the bomb down on the pavement, and goes off with the bag.
You hear stories about people stealing the wheels off parked cars, but stealing stuff off a bomb ... I can't work out whether that's stupidity, or sang-froid.
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I was in the US in '94, and even back then the levels of public anxiety when anything happened were intense. Extreme levels of public politeness compared to Europe. People seemed to have this fear that if you insulted someone they might pull a gun and start shooting. I once told someone politely and firmly to f*** off in a major Greyhound Bus station, and suddenly you could hear a pin drop.
I actually saw one guy get taken to hospital in shock because he thought he'd been shot. A car backfired or something and he fell and hurt his shin on a high curbstone alongside another Greyhound Bus station. Blood coming out of his leg, he was pale and shaking and unable to move. Total shock. Everyone else on the bus was worked up and convinced we'd all just been involved in a driveby shooting. I was there saying, er, I don't think so, the guy's leg is straight, and its kinda difficult to get shot in the shin without breaking a bone. The silly plonker has panicked, fallen over, and scraped his leg. And he thinks he's dying.
Maybe the US gun culture is another part of the problem -- the idea that you're supposed to walk around on tippy-toe all the time because if you get into an argument, the other guy might pull a gun and shoot you dead. Maybe people growing up in that sort of society are more prone to anxiety over violent acts that they can't control. Dunno.
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Another difference between the US and Europe is that to us, the biggest bogeyman before the Cold War wasn't terrorism (although there was a lot of that about), it was the Nazis. Those were the guys who seized power in Germany on the basis that society had to be protected from the terrorist/communist/whateverist threat (look up the "Reichstag Fire Decree"), and proceeded to slaughter millions.
The memory's fading now, but when we hear the US government using phrases and arguments that were previously used by the Nazis, and see their security forces kidnapping and torturing people abroad, applying an ethos that we in most of Western Europe haven't seen since the Gestapo, we tend not to consider the guys using those arguments and methods to be the good guys.
We also tend to remember that when the WW2 German government used the same basic logic as the current Bush administration -- that the important thing is to set aside ethics and win at all costs -- that they actually lost.
So the European and US attitudes to terrorism are different (although they're probably converging). If we say that a terrorist is someone who leverages a magnified fear of personal violence against the population for political ends, then t
Eric Baird
Well, these things might work with canines, but it only works because dogs are not clever enough to strip them off or how to shield them.
So, who the fuck thinks a terrorist attack, planned underground over years, realized by people who did study (e.g. engineer), would be foiled by a handwrist taser? The kind of terrorists trained by al-Qaida are not on the educational level of farmers from Third World nations. They live in the very country under conditions as you and me does for years.
Legalizing methods like wiretapping may block one way for them, besides millions of other ways to realize an "evil" communication. But i think governments are keen to investigate one at a time.
This may work as an determent for psychotics - wait no, it doesnÂt. So what is it all about, generate the feeling of safety where there canÂt be safety?
regards
I noticed something in the promo that any half-intelligent person could also conclude.
The video goes on about the "terrorism threat" in the beginning, and cites all the expensive security measures in place. At one point, the narrator (along with some on-screen captioning) says,
"Technology is only as good as the people that use it."
So, I mustn't be the only one that sees the irony in the proposal that follows this point in the video. They are proposing a technology that can disable individuals (has this been tested in any sort of extremes... such as PCP users?) and puts it in the hands of flight crew. Brilliant.
Now don't get me wrong... I actually like the idea of a wearable device that tracks my bags for me. (if it indeed works as well as they say... hope it's not software-dependent) Another plus would be to 'group' bracelets together, such as in family units or business groups. Travelers could track each other, 'courtesy paging' could be localized to an area where the individual has wandered off. (if that problem hasn't been completely mitigated by smartphones and the like)
Lastly, I have a problem with them going on and on about the costs of security. The bomb-detectors that cost over 350k each... so what? They scan thousands of pieces of luggage a day, so in that sense they are proving their value.
Noticeably absent from the video was any indication of cost. What would the actual cost be per-bracelet? Now multiply that by the 30-million or so travellers... DAILY! Suddenly, a one-time cost of nearly half-a-million doesn't seem so expensive for a measure of security.
Are the bracelets re-usable? If so, is there a system of sanitation in place to protect health of the next passenger to wear them? Are they secure like handcuffs or flimsy like the wrist-band from the last concert you attended? Can someone easily work their way out of one without being detected? How can a device yield a debilitating charge while being so small? Even Li-polymer batteries would only give a high-voltage sting of a second or two... IF the promotional video 'doodles' are to be believed.
Frankly, I'd believe them to be more like those home-arrest anklets... 8 ounces of klunky, armor-encased circuitry and a battery attached to a handcuff-grade shackle. On the ankle, slightly uncomfortable... on the wrist, unbearable, I'm sure!
Like every marketing department, these guys have clearly gone out of their way to make it seem like an 'essential need' for HLS and TSA. A strained and desperate attempt to sell an inspired idea that simply isn't thought-out, but making it seem like it's already to late to thwart all those pesky 'terrorists' out there.
The worst mistake we, as a people, have made in the past decade is to assume that our government will make sensible and practical choices. Don't put it past them!
Besides... there's one aspect of 'nine-eleven' that hasn't really been addressed... least of all by security measures aimed at passengers; the fact of the matter is those terrorists got through the system as employees, not merely passengers. What, if anything, has been done to keep THAT from repeating?
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