Obama's "ZuneGate"

theodp writes "Barack Obama supporters were left shaking their heads after a report surfaced that the president-elect was using a Zune at the gym instead of an iPod. So why would Mac-user Obama be Zune-ing out? Could be one of those special-edition preloaded Zunes that Microsoft bestowed on Democratic National Convention attendees, suggests TechFlash, nixing the idea that the soon-to-be Leader of the Free World would waste time loading Parallels or Boot Camp in OS X just to use a Zune."

Comments

so?

[n3tcat]

Here in Germany I see more no-name mp3 players than ipod and zune COMBINED. What does it matter if he's an apple or windows guy? It's not linux, so why does it matter?

Re:so?

[theaveng]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

An MP3 player is an MP3 player - you don't have to use an Ipod. Me, I use an Insignia that I got for free from Best Buy and it works just fine.

Re:so?

[bobmarleypeople]

I can see CNN now
Our top story tonight... Obama: To Apple or not to Apple, that is the question posed to our team as rumours surface about major Mac user President Obama using a Microsoft Zune to listen to his music. We bring you the detailed analysis after this commercial for iPods.
.........actually, I can't see that happening. Give us some real news please!

Re:so?

[thetoadwarrior]

It's that kind of fairy talk that is helping MS lose the all time important war against the iPod.

Grow a set, pick a side and prepare for war!

Re:so?

[CRCulver]

Sometimes you don't want just an "MP3 player" but something with support for more formats, including Free Software ones like Ogg, FLAC and Speex. And the ability to play some fun games is a plus. An iPod with Rockbox installed will give you all this. So will a few other quality players. But the cheap MP3 players that are little more than USB sticks with a headphone jack seem awfully limited in comparison. One player is not necessarily equal to another.

Re:so?

[BobReturns]

Exactly, this hardly seems like an issue that matters to the electorate - or more accurately that should matter to the electorate. Maybe we should be more interested in policy?

Re:so?

[BrentH]

Apart from the fact that iPod bought after summer 2007 can't load Rockbox, there's a bazzilion players out there that play Ogg Vorbis and FLAC right out of the box. If these free codecs are so important to you, why not buy the device that actually already does what you want (and support the kind of manufacturer that actually builds these players)? BTW, the Zune works fine with Songbird, so the Zune can be used natively on any platform.

Re:so?

[McFadden]

That doesn't take anything away from the fact that the vast majority of people probably use them to play mp3s and frankly couldn't give a stuff about anything you've just mentioned.

Re:so?

[CRCulver]

Slashdot doesn't represent the "vast majority of people".

Re:so?

[joewhyit]

Word.

Re:so?

[TeXMaster]

Apart from the fact that iPod bought after summer 2007 can't load Rockbox, there's a bazzilion players out there that play Ogg Vorbis and FLAC right out of the box.

Are there? I can't find any here in Italy.

Re:so?

[theaveng]

Neither does Obama - which is probably why he doesn't care if he's listening to an Ipod, a Zune, an Insignia, a Sony Walkman, or some other generic brand.

Re:so?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only 4 things matter when most people buy a player:

1) Plays MP3s
2) Good audio quality
3) Decent storage space
4) Low cost

Almost every single no name MP3 player fits these criteria. That's why they vastly outsell iPods.

Re:so?

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW, the Zune works fine with Songbird, so the Zune can be used natively on any platform.

Correction: The Zune works fine with Songbird under Windows, so the Zune can be used natively on Windows. Songbird is available for other platforms, but MTP support is only available in the Windows build for some reason.

Re:so?

[tao]

The Samsung YP-U[123] (BTW, don't import one from the US; the US firmware has no support for Ogg Vorbis) devices seems to be quite easy to get hold of all over Europe; I bet you can find that one in Italy as well. But I'd recommend trying to find a Cowon iAudio instead (possibly by ordering it online). Less bugs in the Ogg Vorbis support plus support for Ogg FLAC.

Re:so?

[El Lobo]

Exactly. Is there a law now that says that we all must use Apple's crap now? I use a creative player and never been happier.

Re:so?

[squiggleslash]

I don't believe the "German poster" (actually he just said "here in Germany", he might have been an immigrant into that country) ever said anything about Best Buy.

Re:so?

[Curtman]

What does it matter if he's an apple or windows guy?

I am absolutely thrilled that the dumbest thing this president has done so far is use a Microsoft product. Dubya had already planned to blow up half of the world by now.

Re:so?

[rishistar]

He's quite clearly an Apple guy, and like all their fanbois he is a religous zealot, who will do his hardest once president to push to ensure the spirit of the Mac leader does not die. After all, he has pledged to create 2.5 million Jobs - I just hope they've ordered a load of black turtlenexk sweaters for all those clones.

Re:so?

[Hurricane78]

Hmm... the iPod is probably the most expensive mp3 player that you can load Rockbox onto, isn't it?
I know that Rockbox was created for many other players, and the iPod just got added to it.
So I'd rather go with a player that does the same for less money. :)
But I already have a mobile phone (one of those that are made to play music, and therefore have better a/d converters), and I have my own good headphones.

I never understood why anyone would want an overpriced, too large player, that can't be used as an USB-stick and has really crappy headphones. (I think they should stop selling headphones with the players. That way the players would look cheaper, and the people would buy better headphones [because you can't buy headphones that are *that* crappy and still look good that way])

Re:so?

[Hurricane78]

Unfortunately, good audio quality does not seem to matter for most people.
Oh, and "good audio quality" and "mp3" are direct opposites. ;)

Re:so?

[Chineseyes]

Sadly they reported on this several times on msnbc.

Re:so?

[TeXMaster]

The Samsung YP-U[123] (BTW, don't import one from the US; the US firmware has no support for Ogg Vorbis) devices seems to be quite easy to get hold of all over Europe; I bet you can find that one in Italy as well. But I'd recommend trying to find a Cowon iAudio instead (possibly by ordering it online). Less bugs in the Ogg Vorbis support plus support for Ogg FLAC.

Ah, excellent, thanks for the info.

Re:so?

[poetmatt]

There are plenty of products better than an ipod or a zune. In fact, almost any other player doesn't really rely on DRM for their store. Example: creative players, sandisk, archos, and just about anyone else other than the "most popular" 2 as of late.

Only reason to get an ipod was that the wheel is a much better way of scrolling to a huge degree.

Re:so?

[CommentThingSucks]

Obama does represent the majority of Americans though.

Re:so?

[CommentThingSucks]

I never understood why anyone would want an overpriced, too large [...]

AMERICA! AMERICA! AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

Re:so?

[Dogtanian]

What vastly outsells iPods? Last I checked, the iPod brand still had about 85 percent market share.

Assuming that's true (*), that's almost certainly by market value, not units sold- that is, a £200 iPod Touch counts way more than a £15 no-name player.

Important perhaps from a business perspective, but from the point of view of what player a given person is likely to be using, definitely misleading in favour of the higher-priced iPod range.

(*) And even for a market leader it sounds very high; I'm sure the headline figure hides a more complex picture.

Re:so?

[ozphx]

Doesnt anyone else see this as CLEAR EVIDENCE that the great CONSPIRICY of Microsoft shills to mod Twitter down goes STRAIGHT TO THE TOP?

My god its giving me massive lulz over how much tinfoil that paranoid fucker must be wearing now :D

Re:so?

[Chrisje]

Which is such bullshit.

I had an iAudio, iRiver, no name and iPod, and the audio quality of ogg vs mp3 isn't particularly important if you rip at high bit rates. It's the ear-phones that matter most, followed by the players DA converter, followed by the bit-rate, followed by the format.

Having said that, the music first needs to be good.

Re:so?

[Chrisje]

Hm. Sure. And an iPod does all those.

Now I bought an iPod because it builds a very good IDv3 tag database in the device, allowing me to search my music in customizable ways. So I ripped almost 800 albums, which resulted in 11.000 songs on my 80 GB Classic. If I had my iAudio still, I would not be enjoying my music like I do today.

Because the iAudio didn't do Genres, Compilations, Search, Artist or Album select. The iAudio could only walk through directory structures or randomly play songs. Furthermore, the interface of it was way more clunky. So the iPod actually allows me to *FIND* and *MANAGE* my music. I have one, in spite of the piece of garbage that is iTunes, because of that reason.

But then again... I rip at VBR 224-320 bps, then I only rip *whole albums* that I bought in a store myself. Then I put the album art in there too. In all songs. So I really care about the look, feel and immaculateness of my collection. :-D Others might not.

Re:so?

[msuarezalvarez]

But not with respect to MP3 playing choices...

Re:so?

[Jason Earl]

Actually, that's not true at all. In fact, I have a wide array of cheap Chinese MP3 players, and they all play ogg vorbis just fine. They don't mention it on the packaging (assuming there is packaging), but they tend to support the format just fine.

Re:so?

[eltonito]

Like you, I could care less about his choice of digital music player. But I'd love to see a Presidential-elect playlist.

When is Barrack going to start uploading his playlists to Last.fm? The citzens are clamoring to know their musical compatibility with Obama!

Re:so?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Sometimes you just want to listen to some music while you're working out.

I thought this was /. not TMZ.

Re:so?

[maxume]

You can't really load rockbox onto most of the ipods that Apple sells at this point.

I guess they probably won't spend all that much time porting to new devices until the hardware driving 32+ gb flash players starts to shake out and stabilize.

At the moment, the most up-to-date players that it runs on are the ipod video and some of the sandisk Sansa models.

Re:so?

[Peet42]

Oi! I run Linux on my iPod!

Re:so?

[tonymus]

What does it matter if he's an apple or windows guy?

Well, it's pretty damn obvious you live in Germany, because if you lived in the material-obsessed and politically correct wasteland the US is becoming, the answer would be obvious...

-----

P.S. Get off my lawn!

Re:so?

[Tronster]

"An MP3 player is an MP3 player"
I would argue that this mentality is why we have so many poor interfaces (software and hardware). While an MP3 player's primary function is to play MP3s there are several hundred nuances that can lead to a good or horrible User Interface Design (UID).

The UID becomes paramount when answering the questions:
Does the player support shuffle, playlists, seamless play?
How does it handle grouping of songs and artists?

And to be competitive, adding ancillary functionality not directly tied to playing an MP3 bumps the nuances up to the thousands:
Does it display album art work?
Can it hook up to an internet store and directly download music, or share music from device to device?
Etc...

A few years ago I shopped around for 3 months for a car-based MP3/CD/radio player. The one I settled on was lesser of the evils. If the iPod (or Zune) teams made a car head unit with the same features of my current one, but charged twice the price, I'd buy it in an instant. Adding a good UID adds value beyond the feature set.

The iPod and Zune have sold well, but not because of a superior feature set they offer over competition players. It surely wasn't because of their price either. But compared to the Rio I had, and a more recent Creative sold MP3 player that a friend had, I can see a clear difference in the UID, one that "made sense" for even the most complex operations without having to go to an instruction manual.

All that being set, I think it's interesting Obama chose a Zune; but from the demos at BaltoMSDN meetings I could understand why. It's my #2 pick now, as Microsoft has done a great job of making it interface easilly with both Window PCs and the XBOX 360. If Microsoft offers that easy of connecting to a MacOS based system, I could see myself considering one during my next upgrade cycle.

Re:so?

[erroneus]

I would only care about this if... nope. Can't think of a reason to care about this at all.

If Obama were to use all F/OSS, I might sit up and take notice. If we could somehow convince this incoming administration to concern himself with what he does rather than what brands he endorses while doing it, we might be able to see some interesting things happen in government IT.

I have submitted multiple messages to that change.gov site to that end... perhaps we could get a few more people to submit their opinions in favor of open source, copyright and patent reform.

After all, in my view, as long as the job gets done to specification or to my satisfaction (whichever is the more specific or appropriate) it does not matter which [brand of] tools I use to accomplish it... unless of course budgets are of concern.

Re:so?

[BrentH]

Hmm, odd. Anyhoo, I thought Amarok supports it too, which runs on Linux and OSX (beta).

Re:so?

[misterpib]

I got one that mentioned it on the packaging.

It also plays "MP4" videos, which are *NOT* mpeg4, but hey, at least it can play videos, right? And that's useful with a .5 inch screen, right?

Re:so?

[hedwards]

Which is precisely why iPods need to be sent directly to the dump. Seriously, I'll get flamed and modded troll for saying it, but iPods have severely damaged an already damaged industry. They ship with poor quality ear phones that are definitely causing hearing damage, they come out of a music store which only sells for their players in single packs. And the typical iPod user just does not care about anything other than being cool.

The fact of the matter is that the sooner iPods die a horrible death the sooner we have a chance at decent mainstream music. The willingness to shell out that sort of money for a device which is known to cause hearing damage is absurd. One's just paid several hundred for an iPod, just go the rest of the distance and buy a good set of ear phones. Reality is that those make far more difference than the player anyways. Nothing is going to sound decent with any of the ones that are packaged with most players.

Re:so?

[hedwards]

Well, President-elect Obama has promised change. Perhaps change includes actually thinking about which brand of MP3 player to get rather than automatically going lowest common denominator.

As shocking as it is to some people, the Zune is actually a great player, it's definitely not popular, but everybody I know who has one says nice things about it. Unfortunately for MS, that's like 2 people.

Re:so?

[HAKdragon]

For what it's worth, I have an iPod, but the only online store I use is Amazon's MP3 store. No DRM, no problem.

Re:so?

[ChinggisK]

.........actually, I can't see that happening. Give us some real news please!

You obviously haven't been reading the ridiculous headlines CNN seems to be putting up these days...

Re:so?

[tsa]

Does wanting or needing that make you a better President? I thought so.

Re:so?

[Kneo24]

I can attest to the Cowon products. Their really high priced PMP's aren't worth it, but from what I've used over the years from them, they've supported a lot of different audio formats through out all of their product ranges afaik.

Re:so?

[Wolfrider]

--Say, can you recommend a decent, inexpensive player that supports Ogg + mp3? My range is ~$40 as long as it has at least 1GB of space. TIA (yes, serious question.)

Re:so?

[Ihmhi]

But I'd love to see a Presidential-elect playlist.

1) Queen - "We Are The Champions"
2) Journey - "Don't Stop Believin'"
3) The Presidents of the United States of America - "Lump"

This would be a fun drinking game.

Re:so?

[bobmarleypeople]

I'm in the UK, so maybe I should have put BBC News instead.
The only two news networks I pay attention to mainly are BBC News and Onion News Network.

Re:so?

[CRCulver]

A ski mask can be had for $5 if you shop around. Wearing that, you can run by and snatch someone's iPod out of their hands. I just saved you $35.

Re:so?

[that this is not und]

But my 'USB stick with a headphone jack' only cost me $20 at Frys. And it has an SD slot on it, so I can create my 'Playlists' on inexpensive 2GB SD cards and swap them out at will. And aforementioned 2GB memory updates (SD cards) are getting to be really really cheap now.

I have no compulsion whasoever to spend much, much, more on a Zune or iPod.

The iPod brand is stale and fading away. Everybody knows it locks you to a syncing app. I can download Podcasts at work without having to get permission from IT to load any special software and put them on my inexpensive player to listen to at lunch. That, and there's no way I am gonna do iTunes anyway. Not never nohow.

Re:so?

[that this is not und]

Obama represents a bare majority of the people.

Re:so?

[that this is not und]

The people wearing ski masks aren't just snatching iPods. They're targeting the people bouncing along without any connection to the outside world for much more. Now, if you were a ski-mask thug, wouldn't it make perfect sense to target the zoned out people walking along without any clue who is around them? For their wallet, their bag, all sorts of schwag.

Re:so?

[gsn]

The Cowons are excellent - I've had both the M3L and the X5L from petty much right after their release. Excellent sound, battery life, and support for just about every audio format I could throw at it and both took daily abuse for years (the X5s video support is a bit of a joke). The M3L was stolen in NYC (why I got the X5L) and the X5L now stays at work. Unfortunately, they haven't really come out with a successor with larger capacity, which is why I move to the Archos 5 but it annoys me with the number of codecs and extras one has to get to use features that ought to be standard (FM tuner, aac, m4a, hi def video, battery dock...) but it also plays Ogg and FLAC out the box with the current firmware. I imagine all of them are readily available in Italy.
 

Re:so?

[schon]

can you recommend a decent, inexpensive player that supports Ogg + mp3? My range is ~$40 as long as it has at least 1GB of space.

Samsung Pebble plays OGG, has 2GB of storage and retails for ~$50 here.

Re:so?

[darien]

There is one problem, though: try downloading a song at work and putting it on your iPod to listen to on the way home...

Re:so?

[Fred_A]

But I'd recommend trying to find a Cowon iAudio instead (possibly by ordering it online). Less bugs in the Ogg Vorbis support plus support for Ogg FLAC.

Seconded. Cowon or iRiver have always been good to me :)

The Cowon D2 is currently a pretty good multimedia player if you also want video.

Re:so?

[Tufriast]

Why does this kind of crap make it to front page? This is why I stopped logging in. I don't really care about what the President's using as far as MP3 players go.

Re:so?

[Ambiguous Puzuma]

If you don't mind a small "REFURB" engraved in the case, consider something like a refurbished Sandisk Sansa C2xx or E2xx, likely among the cheapest Rockbox compatible players out there. Regardless of what an mp3 player is designed for, if it can run Rockbox (and is not an Archos) it will play Ogg Vorbis and mp3 files, as well as a number of other file formats. Woot features players like this often enough that it has become a sort of running joke; if you're patient you might get a good deal there. I got my refurbished 2GB Sansa C250 at Woot for $15 + $5 shipping, then added a 2GB MicroSD card I had picked up elsewhere for around $5.

Rockbox, on any supported player, allows far more customization than the built-in software. You can even write your own programs (plugins) to run on it, or modify the Rockbox software itself, if you're so inclined. Rockbox is open source.

Re:so?

[HAKdragon]

Not a problem as long as I have the cable. I use Winamp at work and it has no problem loading songs onto my iPod.

Re:so?

[RobertM1968]

Sometimes... I guess it depends on how computer savvy he is.

I use a SanDisk MP3 player, which plays MP3s and non-protected WMAs (though I exclusively have MP3s on it). If I run into something in some other format such as Ogg, FLAC, etc; I just turn it into an MP3. Now, I have it easy... I mostly run OS/2 (and dabble in everything else)... so I just right click on the file, and select "Convert to MP3" and drag the MP3 version to the SanDisk... but it's just as simple to do from the commandline or with various programs.

I'm guessing that even though most dont have such easy GUI integration, that every other operating system has got to have some GUI based utility available freely that will convert such formats to MP3.

The same goes for video. For newer formats, I have it all tied to mEncoder - again making it a simple GUI right-click, convert to flv/mpg/avi/DiVX/etc (or run it through the commandline for special case transcoding)... for other operating systems, I know there are a ton of free GUI apps that will do the same thing - I actually use a couple of them in Windows when I wanna do (a) something special where it is easier than knowing the commandline parameters or looking them up; or (b) am running multiple transcodes across the OS/2 boxes and the Windows box at the same time (we often run into a time crunch when releasing new episodes of Star Trek New Voyages, and I am responsible for creating the final delivery files; so often I need a few running at the same time).

Thus again, just a tiny bit of computer knowledge makes whatever player one has a moot point to what formats they get their music (or videos) in. The only selection criteria I could see is thus, (1) do I want something that does videos as well, (2) what other features do I want (radio, streaming, web functions, messaging, "direct" access to certain paid services such as iTunes, etc) and (3) price. What format the stuff comes in is irrelevant to what player I choose unless I was one of those people who buys DRM'd music - which with the failure of so many DRM music shops, I'd say is a declining number of people - and besides, even if the player supports DRM'd music, that generally does not prevent it from playing MP3s, which virtually any non-DRMd music in virtually any format can be easily converted to no matter what the computer OS is.

Re:so?

[LS]

It matters because Slashdot figures in heavily into Apple's marketing strategy. But if this were obvious to the average Slashdot user then the strategy wouldn't work.

Re:so?

[Fri13]

Obama does represent all the Americans... not just majority, because last time I checked, he will be next president of United States of America.

Re:so?

[ConceptJunkie]

Hey, as long as it runs RockBox, I certainly don't care. Oh, wait, that would leave the Zune out.

Re:so?

[RpiMatty]

The Refurb Sansas that I got from Woot actually had metal colored 3d stickers spelling out REFURB on the back. I was able to scrape them off, but some of the adhesive remained. I think its gone by now.
I you get a Sansa E2xx series, get a v1 so you can use Rockbox on it. I don't think Rockbox works on the v2 sansa e2xx series yet.

Re:so?

[shawb]

I live in the US, and agree with you on your news choices. The BBC does a decent job reporting on the news, and the ONN often provides the best commentary on what people are thinking. Then again I've been reading the paper version of The Onion on and off for maybe 15 years now and have learned to read through their writing style a while back.

Re:so?

[Cloudwalking]

He uses an iPod.

...an advisor has officially rejected the earlier suggestion that he used a Zune as his primary music player. Instead, he clarified Obama's position as an Apple fan and an owner of an iPod, which he most often uses when working out.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/zunegate-day-tw.html

Re:so?

[couchslug]

".........actually, I can't see that happening. Give us some real news please!"

That this IS news speaks volumes about the "lifestyle expectations" some of the Tan Kennedy camp have of their leader. As with most candidates, Obama appears to be more reasonable than some of his fanbase.

Re:so?

[KevinKnSC]

And furthermore, Best Buy and its subsidiaries have stores in China, the U.K., and Turkey.

Re:so?

[mvdwege]

To chime in in favour of the Cowon players: their DACs are very good. Combined with FLAC support, makes them great players for music that would suffer otherwise from compression, like Classical. I used to use an iAudio M5 with Creative EP630 earbuds (rebadged Akais, also available from Sennheiser as the CX300), and I could hear bows hitting the violin strings in quiet passages, even while wearing them under a motorcycle helmet.

One disadvantage: the batteries are built-in and non-replacable, and Cowon treats them as consumables, so they're not covered under warranty. Expect about a three-year lifetime out of your player before the batteries give out.

Mart

Re:so?

[Mozk]

I use a Minty and it works just fine.

By the way, try viewing altoids.com with NoScript or Flashblock enabled.

Re:so?

[thegnu]

Yes, but you think Obama gives a fuck about ogg? LOL.

Re:so?

[thegnu]

Come to think of it, when is the last time you got a stat that you knew for sure was factual?

Actually, 9 out of every 10 stats I read are factual. But then, I'm a statistical outlier...

Re:so?

[thegnu]

Google "refurb sansa e200" and install rockbox. I'll buy your earbuds off you, since I closed mine in my car door. :(

Re:so?

[fm6]

I used to be a big fan of Cowon's products. But in recent years they've given in to feature bloat and overdesign. Right now they don't seem to sell anything except the "high priced PMPs" that (as you say) aren't worth the cost. And even if they were, they're a total pain to use.

I just had to replace my media player, and the only one that seemed to suit my needs was the Creative Zen Stone. Which has a very limited choice of audio formats. But I'm perfectly happy listening to everything on MP3, even if it means I'm uncool.

Re:so?

[travbrad]

Why would it even matter if he was a linux guy? That's doesn't even register on my radar of things I care about when it comes to our next president.

What's next? He uses Colgate instead of Crest? He likes his eggs sunny-side up?

Re:so?

[Kneo24]

Yeah, after my latest purchase of one of their products, I have to say I am thoroughly disappointed. I haven't used it in about a month (which is quite unusual) and I think I just have to chalk this one up to a bad purchasing decision. I was pleased with my iAudio X5 from them, but finding one at a decent price is a bit difficult. I guess it's time to do a bit research for something new.

Re:so?

[nog_lorp]

I believe that portable music players should essentially be headphone jacks with a female USB slot. Then, plug in a storage device and you are good to go. There is no need for any connection between interface/features and storage size/medium.

Re:so?

[Tronster]

I'll bite...

I agree with you they handed him "what was handy". With neither of us knowing how he obtained the Zune, it is a plausable assumption an aid obtained it for him. Unless there is some special feature the President elect requested, it is most likely the aid obtained an MP3 player that would most easilly integrate into his daily routine. It is unlikely an aid would buy a device that would require much time investiment. The Zune was "handy".

And I wasn't aware becoming an informed consumer, on a product line I previously knew little about, equated to having "no life". ;)

Re:so?

[Darkk]

I too own a 80GB 5.5gen iPod and stopped using it when I bought the SanDisk 4GB Fuze MP3 player and they recently updated it's firmware to support:

FLAC, OGG and New Audible AAX format

I got it during Black Friday for under $50 and very happy with it. No restriction on it's use and no iTunes to deal with. Very happy with it.

So in a nutshell there are choices so as a consumer you are free to make them.

Re:so?

[Lux]

I suspect it's probably more about TV than music.

Gyms often have the audio for their TVs pumped out over short-range radio. Zunes have radio. Ipods don't.

Re:so?

[Glytch]

I don't know if Sandisk sells products widely in Italy, but the Sansa Fuze with 1.01.15A firmware or later supports ogg and flac just fine. Most players shipped now do it out of the box, but some old hardware need a firmware update which is easy to do. Also, music transfer is done by plain old USB mass storage. If you're just using it for audio, it's extremely open-source-OS friendly.

Video on the other hand is a nightmare. It uses some absurdly specific and proprietary format that only their own Windows-only converter can create. If you like headache-free portable video, avoid the Fuze at all costs.

Re:so?

[tahpot]

Dude, get over yourself. You should be modded as a troll as you are.

I use an ipod for one reason - its usability. It is the easiest mp3 player I have found to use and control. The scroll wheel is excellent for navigation, it is nice and slim and even connects nicely to my other AV devices.

They ship with poor quality ear phones that are definitely causing hearing damage

Just because something ships with poor headphones, doesn't mean you have to use them. Yes, they use a standard headphone jack, so you have flexibility with which headphones you use. I personally use a nice pair of Sony headphones that work well while jogging or traversing public transport.

And the typical iPod user just does not care about anything other than being cool.

Just because idiots use something, doesn't mean it's crap - or that all users of the same devices are idiots.

The fact of the matter is that the sooner iPods die a horrible death the sooner we have a chance at decent mainstream music

I'm not sure there's any correlation between the types of music players on the market and the music generated by artists. However, feel free to prove me wrong.

Re:so?

[sumdumass]

It's a good think you don't work at the shops I administrate. I don't allow winamp and Itunes to be installed on the company computers.

Anyways, unless your specifically at a place that your comfortable at, be careful with the Itunes and so on. We had an issue at one site a while back were someone actually installed Itunes and left the windows open while logged in. Someone else came around and ended up downloading about 80 songs for him. This happened two or three times before we banned them. I don't know if Apple took the songs back an refunded him or not, we didn't pay a dime for it.

Re:so?

[CarpetShark]

Here in Germany I see more no-name mp3 players than ipod and zune COMBINED. What does it matter if he's an apple or windows guy? It's not linux, so why does it matter?

I'm share no one cares that much about what he chooses to do his personal spreadsheets on. Statistically speaking, he's likely to go with windows. Yet, statistically speaking, he's likely to go with ipods or a standard USB mass storage player. What DOES matter though, is whether he's bucking trends because of random choice, some particular bias, or because of some outside influence such as being in Microsoft's pocket.

For anyone who thinks its paranoid to consider whether a president is in a software company's pocket... wake up and get real. Just go read the history of the Peter Quinn's attempt to choose the best tool for the job in Massachusetts.

That said... this whole "zunegate" thing is misguided, I think. Accusing a guy of some epic failure of ethics before he's even started is only going to turn him off listening to you in future when a real ethical issue is at hand and he wants to be seen to do the right thing.

Re:so?

[digitalgiblet]

I'm going out on a limb here and guess that the president elect has more pressing things to do with his time than getting Rockbox to work on an iPod.

I'm not arguing with your assertions, because you are correct that for a certain percentage of people tinkering is fun (I enjoy such things myself), but the popularity of the iPod is not based on any technical superiority, but rather on the fact that it is dead simple to use. The vast majority of people are enraged by any machine that asks them to press more than three buttons to hear music.

Re:so?

[digitalgiblet]

Obama does represent all the Americans... not just majority, because last time I checked, he will be next president of United States of America.

And DAY 1 he signs into law the "Everybody better get a Zune" Act of 2009.

Don't blame me, I voted for the Creative Zen.

Re:so?

[digitalgiblet]

... the ability to play some fun games is a plus.

I don't own a Zune, but I read that the new 3.0 version of XNA lets you write games for the Zune. May be great, may be crap. Don't know.

Re:so?

[Brad Eleven]

I'm not claiming to have accurate information. I'm saying that accurate information is not available. Consider that the source of this information is the manufacturers of the products.

Now if we had data from neutral sources, it would be a different story. In the case of the iPod, the figures from the Apple Stores skew the data, IMHO. Feel free to disagree. I fail to see how my claim implies that I provide accurate data--my claim is that accurate data simply is not available.

Further, it doesn't matter anyway. The average consumer may go for what everyone else seems to be buying, but I don't see Slashdot readers as susceptible to the mob opinion.

And to the kindly moderator who marked my earlier comment as "Troll," hey, thanks a lot. I had no idea I was trolling, I thought I was pointing out that marketing data serves one purpose: The marketing of products.

That is, it's not like these are browser usage stats. The corporations involved have a heavy interest in either saying that they're number one or in attenuating the impact of their product not being number one.

Re:so?

[Brad Eleven]

Sorry, I should have said, "accurate" instead of "factual."

Re:so?

[BForrester]

So what you need to infer is that the average customer doesn't really give a damn about
  - hearing damage
  - poor quality sound
  - being gouged on electronics
  - decent mainstream music

The related industries have sculpted their products and pricing accordingly.

Re:so?

[stewbacca]

They ship with poor quality ear phones that are definitely causing hearing damage

That's a short-sighted conclusion. The quality of the ear buds have nothing to do with hearing damage.

Re:so?

[stewbacca]

Search NPR's website for Obama's playlist. They did a story a while back comparing Obama and McCain's play lists. They had similar music on there, with Obama having a bit more old school R&B.

Re:so?

[BlackSnake112]

The only phone I saw him use was a blackberry. Not an iphone.

Wouldn't he have an iphone if he was an Apple guy?

Re:so?

[gsmraxe]

I have a 60Gb Creative Labs Zen Vision:M. I always dispose of the crappy ear buds and get a nice set of "real" headphones for when I actually use it as it was intended.

My Zen comes with an adapter so I can line into my Philips stereo here at work. No need for headphones, I just annoy everyone with speakers. :) It has a line out, just use a RCA to 1/8" jack and loud heavy metal music blasts through the warehouse.

Plus, my Zen works beautifully with Amarok. I get my podcasts, I can make playlists if I so desire, but the DJ feature, random all tracks seems to suit me just fine. I'm a little disappointed that Creative Labs decided to dump their larger players, the Zen 60 is a little big, but it's one of the coolest players I've ever seen.

Re:so?

[thegnu]

Sorry, I should have said, "accurate" instead of "factual."

Well, 74 out of 79 statistics I read are accurate, but I'm a statistical outliar.

Get it? outLIAR!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Re:so?

[Uberbah]

Yes, since muggers in areas heavy with gun nuts announce their intentions 500 yards in advance, so the gun nut has enough time to get out his weapon, cock it, and take the safety off.

Re:so?

[iamghetto]

The common man speaks.

Re:so?

[andphi]

I am not surprised. MSNBC has become the Glorious Leader Barack Obama 24-hour Love-In.

Chris Matthews has been appointed its Voice of Love and Truth while Keith Olbermann has been selected to lead the hourly 15-Minute Hate. The Glorious Leader has approved these selections.

Comrade Olbermann will be highlighting the wickedness and hypocrisy of all the enemies of the People, including the greedy Capitalists who want to keep the money they earn, the violent and disloyal counter-revolutionaries who want to keep the weapons they've acquired, and the self-deceived intelligentsia and treasonous propagandists who refuse to believe and even actively contradict the People's Truth as expressed by Comrade Matthews and Glorious Leader Barack Obama and his Central Committee, which the dis-loyalists once called the 'Cabinet'.

Ignorance is Strength.

Re:so?

[xiaomai]

I own a few of the samsung players, which I'm happy with. One player that I've seen mentioned here previously that I'm really interested in is the Meizu Mini 6 Slim. It supports all the ogg/flac/mp3/etc. and it's relatively inexpensive.

Re:so?

[bandmassa]

Why would it matter if he used linux and a generic player? I don't see how what a leader listens to in his private time, and on what player, matters one jot. Jeez, get lives, people, FFS.

Re:so?

[treeves]

The meaning of "represent" depends on context.

Re:so?

[Wolfrider]

--Thanx to all for replying... :-)

Re:so?

[giuda]

I live in Italy and I bought my Cowon Iaudio 7 from an online store. Google "Iaudio 7". It took one month to arrive because the store hadn't it in stock...

Re:so?

[mcvos]

Sadly they reported on this several times on msnbc.

And rightly so! We were led to believe that Obama was hip and cool, and now it turns out he's using a Zune. He's a liar!

Re:so?

[Chineseyes]

Actually I like MSNBC, although I do feel there are times when they lean a little too far left and may one day face the danger of becoming the left wing version of foxnews, I just think stories like this are completely irrelevant.

Re:so?

[linuxpng]

I use a glock you insensitive clod!

Re:so?

[Jazzy_Nana]

exactly . . . so why does it matter? Maybe it is a Zune, does that mean he is penny wise? That would be a good thing -- Benjamin Franklin clearly said it "A penny saved is a penny earned"

Re:so?

[Swift2001]

You Linux guys are funny. A buzzillion? Really? Where in the real world is that?

Re:so?

[Swift2001]

What good IS ogg vorbis, by the way? Is it a tribal thing? Is the audio better than AAC? Or is it that you can get more OV on the Pirate Bay?

Re:so?

[tao]

Patent free, better sound quality/smaller files (usually either/or, but sometimes both at the same time), guaranteed DRM-free. I buy all my music and rip it to Ogg FLAC (and transcode to Ogg Vorbis for portable use). I haven't checked on Pirate Bay... Let's turn the question around: What good is AAC? Is it the possibility for DRM you love or the patent encumberance?

Re:so?

[Swift2001]

The DRM I hate. The patent "encumbrance" -- developed by Ampex -- doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've got the ability to play OGG on my Mac, and I hear no "better sound." AAC at a high bitrate sounds fine to me.

I hope that DRM in music will go away, and it's in the process of doing so. Perhaps this year. As a longterm solution, neither piracy nor "free music" makes it in the real world.

Re:so?

[tao]

At high enough bitrate even MP3's sound ok. It's at lower bitrates you should be able to tell the difference.

Re:so?

[profplump]

And if we were talking about data that needed to be transmitted low bitrates might be desirable. But given that 120 GB of music at 512 kbps is almost 23 days of continuous playback it seems pretty silly to quibble about it even on portable music players. No matter how good the codec, there's more information preserved at higher bitrates. And as you noted, at higher bitrates codecs have similar performance. So as long as you make reasonable bitrate choices the actual code shouldn't matter.

I'm not saying that OGG doesn't have advantages, I just don't know why you think anyone other than people committed to that patent-free political aspect would care; the technical arguments are pretty insignificant.

Re:so?

[profplump]

A £15 no-name player does not have comparable storage space to a £200, 120 GB iPod Classic. I'm sure there are some devices that do have as much storage, and they may well cost less than an iPod, but they aren't even close to £15.

And the iPod Touch is hardly in the same market as generic MP3 players. That's like saying that it's silly to buy a £350 Dell desktop instead of a £15 no-name PDA -- they devices aren't even comparable.

Re:so?

[Dogtanian]

A £15 no-name player does not have comparable storage space to a £200, 120 GB iPod Classic. [etc, snip]

I never said that it did! Way to go at missing the point *and* reading things into my post that I clearly neither said nor meant.

The OP stated that "the iPod brand still had about 85 percent market share (*1)". My point was simply that if this was by value rather than units sold, then it was misleading in the context of the discussion.

Put simply; Apple could get the above 85% share by market value if (say) one £170 expensive iPod was sold for every three £10 cheapass no-name MP3 players. But it wouldn't mean that 85% of MP3 player owners had iPods; quite the opposite, three out of four wouldn't.

That's a simplified guess of course, but it's true that iPods are priced in the middle-to-top end of the market and avoid the dirt cheap segment altogether. Therefore a given iPod "counts" more by market value than a cheap player. See?

(*1) Assuming he meant "the whole MP3 player market", which is almost certain given what he was replying to

Re:so?

[BobReturns]

Actually he was still conniving his way into the presidency through the supreme court up until... I think today-8 years?

Re:so?

[Virtual_Raider]

So Obama or his mp3-aide know what Rockbox is or that Vorbis even exists? wow...

In other news...

[dreamchaser]

Obama is said to have been wearing Fruit of the Loom underwear instead of his usual Hanes...

WTF...*this* is news for nerds? I could care less what any politician uses to listen to his or her music.

Re:In other news...

[Albert Sandberg]

Yeah, but if it turned out he was listening to c64 sid music, I'd wet my pants ;-)

Re:In other news...

[thesolo]

Thank you. Not only is this not "News For Nerds", it's not news, period.

If the presidential choice of MP3 player seriously matters to you, kill yourself. With all of the problems facing the US and indeed the entire planet, this is the most trivial of matters, and people reporting on it should be ashamed of themselves.

Next we'll be hearing about Obama getting a hangnail. Just shut up.

Re:In other news...

[Jamie's Nightmare]

Bush loves his Ipod.

Re:In other news...

[Alsee]

Note to self: Remember never to allow Albert sit on the couch without plastic seat covers.

-

Re:In other news...

[Chrisje]

Right. So obviously nobody has modded your post +5 insightful yet.

But they should. I mean seriously. Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick. Who cares? In other news, he might wear string underwear, use hugo boss suits and play the banjo in his spare time too... And I still ask myself "who cares?"

All of these bloggers, newsmen, execs and /. editors ought to get something that at least resembles a life. Really. Seriously.

It reminds me of a Cake Song:

Shut the Fuck up

Ok
All right
Oh no
This one, this one, this one

Heads of state who ride and wrangle
Who look at your face from more than one angle
Can cut you from their bloated budgets
Like sharpened knives through chicken mcnuggets

Now, heads of state who ride and wrangle
Who look at your face from more than one angle
Can cut you from their bloated budgets
Like sharpened knives through chicken mcnuggets

(Shut the fuck) up
Yo, shut the fuck up
(Shut the fuck)
Right, right, learn to buck up
(Shut the fuck)
Right, shut the fuck up, hey, ho
(Shut the fuck)
Now, now learn to buck up

(1, 2, a-1, 2, 3, 4!)

Now, nimble fingers that dance on numbers
Will eat your children and steal your thunder
While heavy torsos that heave and hurl
Will crunch like nuts in the mouths of squirrels

Now, nimble fingers that dance on numbers
Will eat your children and steal your thunder
While heavy torsos that heave and hurl
Will crunch like nuts in the mouths of squirrels

(Shut the fuck) up
Yo, shut the fuck up
(Shut the fuck)
Right now learn to buck up
(Shut the fuck)
Right, shut the fuck up yeah, ho! Yow!
(Shut the fuck) Yow! Yow! Yow!
Learn to buck up

Now, simple feet that flicker like fire
And burn like candles in smokey spires
Do more to turn my joy to sadness
Than somber thoughts of burning planets

Now, clever feet that flicker like fire
And burn like candles in smokey spires
Do more to turn my joy to sadness
Than somber thoughts of burning planets

(Shut the fuck)
All right
Ok
I don't(Shut the fuck) wanna
I don't wanna hear it that's right
(Shut the fuck)
Oh no, ok, I don't wanna
(Shut the fuck)
I don't wanna
(Shut the fuck)
Yeeaahh, ho, yow!
(Shut the fuck)
I don't wanna...I don't wanna...

Ooooh ooh oooooooh ooh ooooooohhh ooh

Re:In other news...

[mobby_6kl]

This is important. This news suggests that he's at least somewhat immune to the RDF and stupid trendy shit in general. He also appears to be a smoker. I must say all this is pleasantly surprising, quite unlike his cabinet nominations.

Re:In other news...

[fibrewire]

Moon Patrol music on the C64! I LOVE that game!

Re:In other news...

[nurb432]

The real issue here is the free gift, bribery. Not the choice between zune and ipod.

But the way things are worded it instills emotional reactions instead of rational thought.

Re:In other news...

[Idbar]

In other news, some Apple followers had make donations already to at least get Obama a new pair of MyPhonies, so it looked like he's "wearing" an iPod.

Re:In other news...

[Blakey Rat]

And yet (at this moment) 304 comments have been attached to it. Spawning God-knows how many ad impressions for Slashdot.

Articles like this are just the media's version of "trolling for responses." If you responded to the moronic article, you lost. (Yes, including me.) All you're doing is telling Slashdot: hey, run more shit articles! Those shit articles are really popular!

Re:In other news...

[larry bagina]

Sadly, more people are outraged by him using a Zune than by him being a citizen of Indonesia/

Re:In other news...

[nospam007]

"... Who cares? In other news, he might wear string underwear, use hugo boss suits ..."

Hugo Boss was the guy who manufactured the snappy black SS Uniforms and the cute ones of the Hitler-Youth, some workers being prisoners of war forced into labor.
I'm sure somebody cares.

Re:In other news...

[fm6]

Actually, there are venues where the first family's sartorial choices are of great interest.

But, as you point out, this is news for nerds, so we're interested in the technology. And the kind of technolgy PEBO uses says a lot about who he is and what kind of president he's going to be. Take that famous Blackberry of his. Apparently he pretty much ran his campaign machine through the thing. Now he's probably going to have to give it up and fall back on a laptop. And any technerd worth the name wants to know what kind of laptop, what email and IM software he's going to use, etc., etc.

PEBO's choice of an MP3 player is more personal, but it's not totally irrelevant to our assessment of the guy. He's going to make decisions that affect how we use the Internet, what kind of computers we're able to buy, even what kind of software we use. So his choices of personal technology are of more than incidental interest. If he owned an iPod, I'd think it likely that he bought into the whole techncool meme that seems to surround Apple products. If he owned some more obscure brand, than I'd gues that he's somebody like me who spends a bit of time googling about features and downloading manuals before he makes a buy decision. The fact that he uses a Zune suggests to me that he just wanted something that would download his tune from his PC to his player without a lot of hassle.

Trivia? Sure. But it still says more about the guy than his brand of underwear.

Re:In other news...

[roguetrick]

Don't think too hard about it.

Re:In other news...

[tehcyder]

Hugo Boss was the guy who manufactured the snappy black SS Uniforms and the cute ones of the Hitler-Youth

Funny how you never see that referenced in ads...

You guys

[sleeponthemic]

I will seriously kill myself if he likes Star Wars better than Star Trek.

Re:You guys

[thetoadwarrior]

Fascinating is a word I use for the unexpected. In this case, I should think "interesting" would suffice.

Re:You guys

[Valdrax]

Instead you should kill yourself for putting Voyager & Enterprise in the same bucket with TOS & Next Generation or for putting the prequels in the same bucket as the original trilogy or for even caring in the first place.

Re:You guys

[tehcyder]

I will seriously kill myself if he likes Star Wars better than Star Trek.

I doubt even Dubya was that retarded.

Bye bye karma...

Old

[Anonymous Coward]

Old news is old. Obama already says he uses an iPod not a Zune. It also appears he is rather devoted to Apple.

But in the end this isn't really new and shouldn't be used to fill a slow news Sunday.

Re:Old

[Raleel]

on the plus side, mac software for the blackberry should be pretty solid soon.

oh my god

[papabob]

He is one of those f*** bastards who use the tool that best fits him (for example being free, if it is really a gift from microsoft) instead of "what he should use"!

(or better)

He is one of those f*** bastards who only want to listen mp3 ignoring how stylish is his player!!

Impeachment now!!

Re:oh my god

[TapeCutter]

"if it is really a gift from microsoft"

1. Build spook data center next to MS data center.
2. Give Obama zune...
Do I really need to spell it out?

Re:oh my god

[Hymer]

Nope... he has now been elected and everyone know that the US Gov. is running exclusivly on the Microsoft platform so Secret Service has locked his Apple stuff away and given him some MS stuff instead (Marked with the seal of the President of the United States just below the Microsoft logo of course). -- The Truth is out there... somewhere.

Re:oh my god

[hal2814]

That's not the seal of the President of the US. That's just a sticker for the "Office of the President Elect." The office doesn't really exist. He just made it up a few weeks ago to look more Presidential.

Re:oh my god

[gyrogeerloose]

He is one of those f*** bastards who use the tool that best fits him (for example being free...)

Can't think of a better reason to use a Zune than getting one for free. In fact, I can't of any reason to use a Zune other than getting one for free.

God help us.

[msgmonkey]

Maybe he cares more about the music he's listening to rather than the make/model of the player.

If I did n't have an mp3 player and got a zune for free, as long as it played my mp3s correctly I'd use it. Sometimes I wonder if Apple is a religion or just some company that makes tech products.

Re:God help us.

[Threni]

Maybe he's found out about how Apple make it impossible to use third party hardware with the iPod classic, or maybe he got one of the crippled EU ones with a volume limiter which precludes the use of a lot of high end headphones. Or maybe he doesn't like the fact many iPods have problems with batteries, or the effort Apple goes to to thwart people's attempts to use their own software or firmware in the Apple so you can't play ogg/flac etc format files. Apple's successes with the iPod are chiefly marketing related, not technological. They're like Microsoft - they adopt other people's work and stick it inside fancy cases. There's no reason why Obama should use Apple instead of Microsoft stuff - it means nothing.

Re:God help us.

[mshmgi]

HERETIC! We must burn you now ... Steve be praised.

Re:God help us.

[jotok]

Yah, I have been trying to get rid of my 160g classic for exactly that reason: I want to go back to the 80g model I had before (forget which generation) so I could hack it and play FLAC.

Nobody wants to buy the damned thing :\

Re:God help us.

[loonycyborg]

You obviously care since you bothered to post..

Re:God help us.

[Grimbleton]

I'll give you $10 for it. :D

Re:God help us.

[ByteSlicer]

This should silence your doubts...

Re:God help us.

[Threni]

If you didn't have such problems with your reading comprehension, you'd understand that that was the point I was making.

Re:God help us.

[hailukah]

I care so little that I'm not even reading the posts, hell I'm not even reading any /. right now, this is just my automated I don't care script.

BTW, LONG LIVE VI!!!!

Re:God help us.

[spike2131]

Or maybe he just can't stand the frigging "wheel" and wants an MP3 player that has, you know, an off button.

Re:God help us.

[YesIAmAScript]

You were going pretty good until the battery thing.

The other 3 things are easily demonstrated and documented. The battery thing is internet lore, with nothing but people who say "yeah, I had trouble". Furthermore, the Zune has a lot in common with the iPod on the battery front, including a non-replaceable battery.

Also last I checked, Zune doesn't allow 3rd party firmware either.

Re:God help us.

[Threni]

In the uk,there have been a lot of people with battery problems, and apple don't care about them. The only reason there's less complaints circulating about it is that in the us, where most of the sales are, laws are stricter and apple replaced them later in the products life. I know someone whose ipod developed a problem and apple didn't care. I won't buy buy another apple product until they get their act together and work out if they want to be fair to the consumer or just rip them off. Make less money in the short term for more money and market share in the long term. The same problem they had with their PCs really.

Re:God help us.

[kermit1221]

Sometimes I wonder if Apple is a religion or just some company that makes tech products.

What do you mean you "sometimes wonder"? Seems pretty obvious it's a religion...

Re:God help us.

[blai]

A religion. According to the Apple, anyone found worshipping another God will be stoned to death.

Re:God help us.

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Apple's successes with the iPod are chiefly marketing related, not technological.

BS. Apple were the first to make such a device user friendly. And yes, they know how to market them, too. The truth is, most of those issues you listed don't concern most people.

Re:God help us.

[Lars T.]

Furthermore, the Zune has a lot in common with the iPod on the battery front, including a non-replaceable battery.

What it doesn't have in common is a (out-of-warranty) battery replacement program.

Re:God help us.

[evil_aar0n]

I'm one of the _last_ people to fall prey to marketing - I don't have TV, so I rarely see those ads, and I'm not swayed by that type of thing, anyway - but I _do_ have an iPod shuffle and I just love the little thing. It's trivial to use, does exactly what I want, and, combined w/ iTunes, I don't even have to think about it. Sync-unplug-go. Tag me a "phanboi" if you wish, but there's more to the iPod phenomenon than just marketing.

Re:God help us.

[YesIAmAScript]

Apple's sold 120M+ iPods. There's a lot of people with all kinds of problems, presumably including such things as having run over them with a car or dropped them in a toilet.

Again, your battery comments don't rise about the level of "I heard a guy say..."

Re:God help us.

[Dralnu]

Its a cult that, instead of selling shirts, sells pretty cases to fund their trip to the big Apple in the sky.

Re:God help us.

[Rich0]

Now that is marketing genius! Make a device that lacks 90% of the feature set of everything else on the market, charge more than a typical device of the same class (which doesn't lack features like a display with the ability to pick what song you want to listen to), and then market it as an improvement.

Make sure that you are tied to a particular piece of software on the PC just to load songs on it as well.

And some people buy it!

For the cost of a shuffle you could have bought any number of competing players where you could actually pick what you want to listen to, and have FM radio as well. Not to mention drag-and-drop loading of files as a USB storage device (sure, you could use itunes or some other GUI if you wanted to as well).

"But those other players aren't as easy to use as a shuffle..." Ok, then just pretend they don't have any buttons other than FF/REW and +/- - and suddenly they work exactly the same.

I'm sure Apple's next invention will be a 36" LCD HDTV for $9k that only has a volume control and is permanently tuned to Apple TV (with a $20/month subscription charge). As an added feature it will include a mic so that Apple can figure out what kind of household you are and apply programming specific to your household. Maybe they'll call it the Telescreen and people will buy it in droves (hey, it is cheaper than cable!)... :)

Re:God help us.

[GauteL]

"or maybe he got one of the crippled EU ones with a volume limiter which precludes the use of a lot of high end headphones"

Yes, blame Apple for following EU regulation.

Reality Check Needed

[Macthorpe]

I can't believe that some people care more about which MP3 player he uses than what policies he's going to implement.

Can I get a reality check to aisle S, please?

Re:Reality Check Needed

[mgblst]

It is not exclusive. Most people can concern themselves with more than one matter at a time, an amazing feat, I realise.

The funny thing is that I see loads of stories here that nobody care about, and they get no comments. Then there is the odd story that bring out the people who feel the need to inform everyone of how little they care about the story, by actually posting on it.

It is like the people who don't care about something, but really feel the need to make you understand that they don't care about it.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[Macthorpe]

How about that this is taking up actual news space on several sites I read which could be taken up with something important? That there has been massive 'outrage' about this from people who traditionally say nothing about Obama or his policies?

Just because you didn't see anybody say it, that doesn't mean that nobody has said it. Capiche?

Re:Reality Check Needed

[Macthorpe]

Did I actually say any of that?

It's like people who reply to your posts because they have their own point to make and end up completely ignoring everything you said.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[Draek]

There are two kinds of stories that one doesn't care about: the type where one may not care but recognizes someone else may have different interests, such as for example an important change in Safari (I use Linux so meh), and the type where the idea that someone truly cares about such a thing diminishes one's faith in humanity, like this one or Britney Spears' many marriages.

I, however, are just here for the lulz inherent to watching Apple fanboys try to spin this in a positive way for Apple ;)

Re:Reality Check Needed

[_Sprocket_]

How about it's not a zero-sum game? Sure - print media has the concept of finite amount of story space. But this looks like its being "covered" in electronic media. And in that case, pixels are cheap. Along those lines, the people who are commenting on this that wouldn't comment on Obama's policies - again, nothing of value is lost. These are not people taking up their precious political insight time to disect the (future) President's choice in consumer electronics.

This is a non-issue. And your issue with it being a non-issue is, in itself, a non-issue.

As for the idea that someone MIGHT put more value to this? Sure. Quite likely. There are people who probably thought Obama was a better candidate when it was hinted he might be a Star Trek fan. Some people didn't approve of him because of his gender and / or ethnicity. Heck - some people voted straight party ticked. There's all kinds of crazy things people do. So what?

Re:Reality Check Needed

[Renraku]

I personally don't care if he uses heroin, as long as he makes a good leader to the country, and it doesn't affect his policy or leadership abilities.

Now if he started doing things like outlawing iPods and suggesting Zune's as an alternative, I'd care, much like if he had an expensive habit to support and tried to legalize heroin.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[mgblst]

Yes, you said that people care more about what mp3 player he has than his policies, when there is no evidence of that at all. Just because one story pops up about that, apparently people no longer care about anything else, according to your enlightened ideas.

And how dare I talk about something that wasn't in your post. Clearly only stuff that you mention should be included.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Who said it was more important? Are only the mostest important evah things allowed to be talked about? Now, you could agrue if this was interesting enough to be posted on the front page, but that is quite different to assuming that some people think this issue is more important than the one you listed because it was posted in place of the others.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[fm6]

I can't believe that some people care more about which MP3 player he uses than what policies he's going to implement.

Excuse me? How does having an interest in trivia preclude interest in the Big Stuff? I just spent 5 minutes writing this post on The Great MP3 Scandal. Before that, I spent 45 minutes watching PEBO talk about Iraq, Afghanistan, Mumbai, Pakistan, the economy, and his dogwhistle appointment for Secretary of Veteran Affairs. I spent a lot of time (probably more than I should) googling for the latest news and opinion on the new administration. Does the 5 minutes I spent on trivia render meaningless all the time I spend doing serious reading about Obama's plans and policies?

Besides, as I say in my previous post, Obama's choice of an MP3 player isn't that trivial.

Re:Reality Check Needed

[footNipple]

I can't believe that some people care more about which MP3 player he uses than what policies he's going to implement.

Believe it. How do you think he got elected?

Jesus...

[skam240]

Holy Christ! Our president to be is using "such and such" as his mp3 player!? Holy Christ! Some one please tell me what popular Hollywood celebrity is dating what Hollywood celebrity right now as well because this is all totally fucking relevant to my life!

Re:Jesus...

[skam240]

Actually, I didn't mean to repeat "holy Christ" twice in the same post. I'm very sorry everybody. I'm very sorry Slashdot is posting tabloid bullshit.

Re:Jesus...

[Loibisch]

Actually, I didn't mean to repeat "holy Christ" twice in the same post. I'm very sorry everybody.

That's ok, you actually have to call his name three times in order for him to...oh wait, I think that was the other guy...

Re:Jesus...

[stjobe]

Hastur?

Re:Jesus...

[Soulshift]

Hastur?

Re:Jesus...

[stimpy]

Beetlejuice.

Re:Jesus...

[stjobe]

Good save there, but wasn't it Betelgeuse? :)

Re:Jesus...

[UncleWilly]

..Beetlejuice..

Re:Jesus...

[Grimbleton]

Oh what the hell.

Hastur.

Re:Jesus...

[Loibisch]

Well, that wasn't so ba

Re:Jesus...

[Soulshift]

If the last post of a, shall we say, 'recently disappeared' poster is modded Funny, where does the

Re:Jesus...

[maxume]

If it were McCain, we would be talking about how he is thinking of getting an 8 track put in the presidential limo, so that 'he can keep up with the kids'.

Re:Jesus...

[jcnnghm]

This guy?

Re:Jesus...

[Wolfrider]

Candyman.

Re:Jesus...

[TinBromide]

Beetlejuic%!$*%& [NO CARRIER]

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

As MAC user with a Zune, he will be able to experience the true value of DRM. I hope he'll remember that the next time some DRM lobbyist asks for a favor...

Re:Great

[je ne sais quoi]

Mod parent up! Except for the MAC part instead of Mac (a MAC is a serial number for an internet card, a Mac is a computer), this post is spot on. I have no idea what the DRM on Windows and Zune is, but I hope that he has tried moving some of his files from his iPod to his Zune and discovered iTunes won't let you do it, or he has run afoul of the "this computer is not authorized" crap. Let's also hope that he's the kind of guy who can spot when there something wrong and actually gives a shit.

I'm pretty sure our current president has had these issues, he's an ipod listener, but I also guess he probably has his staff do everything for him and doesn't really care if his staff have to infringe on copyright while they are working on his behalf or violate the terms of the license to listen to the songs by moving them amongst un-authorized computers.

Re:Great

[hotfireball]

WTF you're talking about? Who prevents you to buy an audio CD, rip to mp3 and have it DRM-free? After all, you can get your DRM'ed music out of iTunes Store, burn an audio CD and import it back as a regular mp3 or AAC (whatever format you want). It will cost you additional 50 cents for an empty CD and two minutes to complete the task.

Re:Great

[hotfireball]

Unless I have to listen to sh*tty WMA or mp3 instead. However, I prefer AAC, that your Zune won't play. But I have a Zune. As an anti-theft device (http://hideapod.com/). Brown one.

I don't care!

[A12m0v]

I'm posting to let you all know that I don't care!

Impeach Him!

[91degrees]

Can you impeach a president elect? I think we should try!

Re:Impeach Him!

[mschiller]

I don't believe there is any provision to impeach a president elect. However remember Obama isn't technically the president elect yet. The much easier option to get rid of him is to change the electoral vote, since the electoral college hasn't voted yet and a substantial number of votes could be changed arbitrarily [given a good enough reason] with no legal repercussions, throwing the election to ANYONE. After that the only why to prevent him becoming president is to prove he doesn't qualify or by assassination. After becoming president of course impeachment becomes possible.

Re:Impeach Him!

[mschiller]

Turns out there is 257 Electoral votes that technically, without breaking any laws; could go to anyone.... And given a good enough reason would. The remaining votes are tied to various degrees by legal requirements. see: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/laws.html

Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[Spasmodeus]

I have this fantasy in which I am kind of superhero who travels the country tracking down hack reporters who slap the "gate" suffix on anything vaguely resembling a scandal, then jabbing them with a cattle prod until I'm satisfied justice has been served.

Re:Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[gEvil (beta)]

Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

Yeah, and the real "watergate" is the tidewater lock at the end of the 180-mile-long C&O Canal, which guess what, sits right across the street from the Watergate Hotel.

Re:Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[RyoShin]

THANK YOU. I would be the president of your fan club.

Slapping "Gate" on everything annoys the fuck out of me, as well. First, it's not a fucking suffix, it's half the hotel name. Second, Watergate was Nixon's thing; stop being lazy fucking journalists and make up your own damn titles.

If you need me, I'll be in the Angry Dome. Rrrrrrr...

Re:Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[ildon]

So it wasn't a plot by Nixon to steal Washington D.C.'s water supply??? Nixon sure seems a lot less cool when he's not a bond supervillain.

Re:Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[z-j-y]

Language evolves. Where do you think all those -ing -ed -s -tion -ly -est etc. etc. come from? If -gate becomes an inflextion of the English language, so be it.

Re:Watergate is a God Damned Hotel You Turds

[FauxReal]

I have this fantasy in which I am kind of superhero who travels the country tracking down hack reporters who slap the "gate" suffix on anything vaguely resembling a scandal, then jabbing them with a cattle prod until I'm satisfied justice has been served.

I can see the headlines now...
Vigilante Justice or Enemy of Free Speech?

CATTLEGATE

Apple

[Elektroschock]

What's the issue?

Why do you want to use the proprietary apple stuff and be part of the product hype.

I am happy with my Samsung mp3 player because it plays OGG Vorbis.

Geek or Apple? This is a confession.

Using a Zune is kool.

Re:Apple

[FloodSpectre]

Locked in to WMA? My Zune's full of mp3s; ripped, bought from Amazon, and pirated. WTF are you talking about?

Re:Apple

[the-matt-mobile]

Not only that, but .WMA files have better quality sound at with a smaller file size. A 3:30 song is 1661KB in WMA pro format, and 4902KB in mp3 @ 192. I know because I'm reripping my CDs at this very moment in prep for my post-Christmas Zune purchase :-)

Mapple?

[djfake]

I knew there was a reason why I voted for this guy - he secretly HATES Apple!

"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[guruz]

This irritated me more than the fact he is not using the uber-widespread iPod

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Chrisje]

As a Dutch citizen I have the perfect freedom to:
- get abortions
- do soft drugs of various kinds
- drink alcohol from the age of 16
- get serviced by a hooker
- get euthanasia
- get married whether I'm gay, bi or straight
- get divorced
- speak my mind
- drink on a sunday
- have sex in public places so long as it's not visible from the street
- go where I please (we don't need visa for 99% of the planet)

None of which are freedoms I've seen Americans enjoy.

So I second that motion. Obama will be president of the USA. Calling him "Leader of the Free World" pisses me off too since he sure as shit don't rule my country.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Jamie's Nightmare]

Many of the freedoms you list are not universally permitted/denied (alcohol, abortion,divorce). Also, maybe you missed the news when your government decided to ban the sale of magic mushrooms. But, I'm sure you're too busy to read the news, what with all your travels around the world via your Visa trumping Dutch citizenship. *cough*bullshit*cough*

It's also interesting that you claim you don't need a Visa to visit 99% of the planet, yet those who want to visit YOU, do need one.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Lennie]

As a fellow dutchy it ticks me off that my government is doing this. But I do see degration in most governments around the world, so you folks are not better off. Thus I've not found any other place I wanted to move to. Also I wanted to say, they may take away the magic mushrooms, but they are also talking about the local government growing there own marijuana. So we lose one, gain something else.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[JaredOfEuropa]

As a Dutch citizen I have the perfect freedom to:
[...]
So I second that motion. Obama will be president of the USA. Calling him "Leader of the Free World" pisses me off too since he sure as shit don't rule my country.

You mean we still have those freedoms. But right now we are ruled by an unholy coalition of moralist christians and meddlesome left-wingers (funny, in the US it seems to be a choice between these two, but we get them both at the same time). All the freedoms on your list have already been under attack by the current government. And the scary thing is that nobody is protesting.

Judging from here, Americans may have a messed up sense of morality, but I'll say this for them: if they feel that their liberty is threatened they are much more inclined to take action. We, we just moan a little and then carry on. What have you done to defend these freedoms you enjoy?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

- get married whether I'm gay, bi or straight

Americans can get married whether gay, bi or straight... as long as they marry someone of the opposite gender!

Take that cloggie!

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Zontar The Mindless]

- go where I please (we don't need visa for 99% of the planet)

I can get into most countries quite easily on the strength of my US passport (only exception I can think of is China which requires a visa - although Hong Kong and Macau don't).

And since I actually live in Sweden, I enjoy most of the other freedoms you mention as well - or can be in Denmark or the Netherlands in a couple of hours to the enjoy the few that I can't here.

(Except possibly the hookers... Unless I'd like permission from the gf to enjoy the freedom of sleeping alone.)

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

dutch freedom of speech is a joke compared to american freedom of speech. Dutch freedom of speech basically means you're allowed to say what the left-wing elite thinks is right. In the usa freedom of speech is absolute as long as you're not inciting violence. For example in holland, try saying that you don't like black people, homosexuals, muslems, etc*. Try starting a racist movement*. Try saying that you think homosexuals are sick*. You will get into problems with the law, even if it is your honest to god opinion.

and where do you get the idea that you cannot get an abortion in the usa? or drink on a sunday? or get divorced? Or pay for sex?

*disclaimer; i'm not a bigot by any means, i just used those things as examples.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

oh yes, maybe you should also think about this: The usa just voted in its first black president, in the netherlands people went nuts when rotterdam recently got its first morrocan born mayor. Dutch tolerance is a myth.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[AlXtreme]

As a Dutch citizen I have the perfect freedom to: ...
- speak my mind

Unless you happen to be critical to Islam. Then you can expect a knife in your back or a bullet in your head (eg. v. Gogh, Fortuijn).

Our government has locked up reporters for failing to disclose their sources and cartoonists for being critical of the government. It's not like the Netherlands is a magical fairy land where everything is perfect. When it comes to freedom of speech, I'd rather live in the US.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

actually it's crap because there aren't a lot of places that actually don't require a visum, a lot of countries will give out "visa on arrival" which means that even though they give you the visum when you get there you still need a visum.

And even with a dutch passport I've travelled to many places that don't even give visa on arrival. Nigeria, China, bangladesh (indonesia, depending on when/where you go). Even for the usa we need to register some stuff in advance now.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[SigILL]

oh yes, maybe you should also think about this: The usa just voted in its first black president, in the netherlands people went nuts when rotterdam recently got its first morrocan born mayor. Dutch tolerance is a myth.

In the interest of full disclosure: I'm dutch.

Yeah, I'm afraid you have a point. Dutch tolerance is more a sort of institutionalised indifference.

However, you must take into account that right up until the 1950's, most Dutch people had only seen foreigners as pictures in a book. Even I at 27 years can recall watching TV in primary school, and half the class starting to scream and yell profanities because the announcer was black.

That's not an excuse, it's just how it is: people that are "different" are scary. In the Netherlands it used to be the Turkish Dutch, now it's the Moroccan Dutch. In the US it's the gays and potheads.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

I see your point and I agree to an extent. However, you also have to consider that some states in the usa officially had racist laws (segregation) until 1968 which is only 5 years before I was born. So voting in a black president is really quite a turnaround. I cannot imagine that holland will have a black prime minister any time soon. And what if our crown prince would have married a black woman? I think people wouldn't have been so friendly to her. But I hope that I'm wrong.

btw I'm dutch too.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[SigILL]

Try saying that you think homosexuals are sick*. You will get into problems with the law, even if it is your honest to god opinion.

*disclaimer; i'm not a bigot by any means, i just used those things as examples.

No you won't. Hell, if you're a priest for a religious movement that is large enough, you can even be subsidised by the government.

You will be criticised by the press, that's for sure. But no judge is going to convict you for saying that.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Animaether]

"Unless you happen to be critical to Islam. Then you can expect a knife in your back or a bullet in your head (eg. v. Gogh, Fortuijn)."
So? You still had the freedom to speak your mind on it - the government isn't going to come over and haul you away never to be seen again.

"When it comes to freedom of speech, I'd rather live in the US."
Freedom of speech is not an automatic exoneration of any consequences of that speech. Go to a young jewish neighborhood and run around going sieg heil all the time, see how your free speech is respected.
(just to get away from the 'go to a black neighborhood, etc.' example)

"Our government has locked up reporters for failing to disclose their sources"
Failing to disclose after having been court-ordered to do so. Guess what - they're supposed to get locked up (or pay a fine) when that happens... that's how laws work. You may question -why- the courts agreed that the sources had to be revealed, but for that I'd say read the courts findings. If you think this doesn't happen in the U.S., you are deluded.

"and cartoonists for being critical of the government."
Cartoonists, op-eds... ahh, see the Plame case.

"It's not like the Netherlands is a magical fairy land where everything is perfect."
Certainly not.. no place is perfect. Each have their pros and cons - I don't think the cons you cited are non-existent for the U.S., however.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

that all depends on whether they're christian or muslem. Christian-bashing is ok with the left wingers, muslem bashing is not ok.

i distinctly remember a case against a christian politician a while back (can't remember his name), he basically said that homosexuals were no better than thieves (he meant in a religious way). Some homosexual movement took offense and took him to court, he lost, I'm very sure of that.

muslem groups off course can bash homosexuals all they like and will indeed get subsidies.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[eltonito]

Judging from here, Americans may have a messed up sense of morality, but I'll say this for them: if they feel that their liberty is threatened they are much more inclined to take action. We, we just moan a little and then carry on. What have you done to defend these freedoms you enjoy?

Are you talking about Canadian Americans? Because in the United States of America, our citizenry will bitch up a big storm but then do absolutely nothing as their liberties are degraded and taken away in the name of "progress" and "security."

I was watching the news coverage of the post-Mumbai-terror-attack protests the other day and thought "this is how we should've responded to 9/11." Instead we quietly gave up a bunch of rights then pointed our military to a non-involved third world country. Anyone who complained about it was labelled "unpatriotic" and chided for not supporting the President. As further punishment you'd probably be added to a no-fly list, so traveling became a nightmarish ordeal. No one is taking to the streets or attempting to defend anything. At most, we're posting screeds on blogs (or Slashdot, in my case) and shrugging our shoulders.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[hjf]

- speak my mind

Not true.

http://merlin.obs.coe.int/iris/2005/2/article35.en.html

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[SigILL]

i distinctly remember a case against a christian politician a while back (can't remember his name), he basically said that homosexuals were no better than thieves (he meant in a religious way). Some homosexual movement took offense and took him to court, he lost, I'm very sure of that.

I looked it up. You're speaking of a quote by RPF (bible literalist christian party) politician Leen van Dijke, who said "why should a homosexual be any better than a thief?" He was sued for discrimination but was aquitted by the Hoge Raad (supreme court).

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

ok, you're right, I thought that he lost (maybe he initially did?).

I still think that there is a limit on freedom of speech in effect though because he needed to justify his beliefs by means of freedom of religion. What happens if an says that homosexuals are "sick"?.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[ion.simon.c]

Oh crap, it's been revealed that I don't know what I'm talking about!

Oh well. Here's some more clueless blather to indicate that I think you're either a moron or a fool who can be easily distracted by words!

FTFY

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[maxume]

Abortions aren't available free from the state, but they almost are, so that is kind of strange.

Divorce is pretty widely available, I'm not sure where you got that.

Also, I can drink all I want on a Sunday, I just can't buy alcohol before noon (as far as I can figure, this is a holdover from the days when communities went to church together, it is an attempt to get the drunks to go too; these days, we don't have communities anymore).

There is certainly a prohibitionist bent to the laws here, but we aren't the wacky theocracy that you are imagining.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Ian Paul Freeley]

How many of those can you do at once?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[shutdown -p now]

oh yes, maybe you should also think about this: The usa just voted in its first black president, in the netherlands people went nuts when rotterdam recently got its first morrocan born mayor.

The difference between Obama and Aboutaleb (the new mayor) is that the latter:

1. Grew up in Morocco until the age of 15.
2. Is a practicing Muslim and a son of imam.
3. Is a citizen of Morocco (in addition to being a citizen of the Netherlands).

To be honest, dual citizenship alone should be enough to disqualify anyone from holding any civil post in a country, because it creates a clear conflict of interest.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[DrFalkyn]

As a Dutch citizen I have the perfect freedom to: - get abortions

Legal in the US

- get serviced by a hooker

Well you can do that in Nevada. Its not like the Dutch have NO restrictions on prostitution, (no street hookers)

- get divorced

You can't get divorced in the US?

- speak my mind

We can't do this in the US?

- drink on a sunday

WTF? Have you been to the US since 1950? Their are some states that have prohibitions on where/when alcohol can be sold, I don't know of of any state that prohibits consumption in a private residence.

- go where I please (we don't need visa for 99% of the planet)

Getting a visa is going to largely depend on the *other* country, not your own.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[mhelander]

Huh?

Have you heard of Fitna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film) ?

Made by a member of the Dutch parliament.

Do you have any links to corroborate your claims that Dutch freedom of speech is so severely limited as you suggest?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[toolo]

Obviously a troll that has gotten out of hand, but,

On the news recently your government is seeming to force the closure of many coffee shops and brothels and force them deeper into the red light district, citing 'criminal elements.'

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/12/07/Amsterdam_targets_sex_and_drug_crime/UPI-68241228633552/

There's quite a CCTV, speed cameras, and speed measuring devices installation which has the underpinnings of a surveillance society.

Race and race relations are not great there, and there are many news articles and posts about that -- including this one ( a bit old but still relevant, this is a law focused on restricting freedom of expression and religious belief and are even extending it to campuses.)

http://digg.com/world_news/Muslim_women_protest_outside_Dutch_parliament_against_burqa_ban

A law like this would be directly against the US Constitution.

Also it has the 8th highest taxation rate/GDP ratio which I consider oppressive.

While on an individual basis it seems you can do whatever you want to kill yourself, there are some issues as a 'free society' just as in the United States that you guys are dealing with.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[amliebsch]

You're missing the point. You may have slightly greater amounts of personal liberties. That might make you the "freest in the free world." But the U.S., nearly alone, has the men, tanks, ships, aircraft, and will to make sure it stays that way. That's what makes them the "leader" of the free world.

Capisce?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[DarkVader]

Your list is inaccurate.

-Americans have the constitutional right to abortion.
-Soft drugs I'll give you. It's a problem here, we're working to fix it.
-Alcohol is another one. We currently have that freedom only from age 21, and it's a problem.
-Prostitution is legal in Nevada. It's a state thing, there isn't a federal law against prostitution.
-Again, there is no federal law against it. Euthanasia is legal in Washington and Oregon, and it's not like there are border controls.
-Marriage is a state thing. Legal in Massachusetts and Connecticut, marriage equivalent unions exist in other states.
-All 50 states allow divorce. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
-We have real freedom of speech, while you can only speak your mind if you happen to agree with the government. That is actually something the US has better than almost every other country on the planet. Our cartoonists don't get arrested for hate speech. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/16/europe/EU-GEN-Netherlands-Cartoonist-Arrested.php
-It's Sunday here. The bars are open.
-You got us on the public sex thing. This country is full of prudes.
-I find it very hard to believe that you don't need a visa for 99% of the planet. I just checked, and you're required to have a visa to go to either China or Russia, that covers quite a bit of the planet right there. About the only place we can't go is North Korea. Everywhere else lets Americans in.

But yeah, "leader of the free world" is pretty stupid, even though his policies will have a great impact on your country.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[bryanp]

The usa just voted in its first black president, in the netherlands people went nuts when rotterdam recently got its first morrocan born mayor. Dutch tolerance is a myth.

Make that "European tolerance is a myth" and you're closer. I've lived in Europe and all around the US. Germans, Brits and the rest of Europe are some of the most openly racist people I've ever met. The only place I've lived that was worse for racism is Japan.

But then many stereotypes are blown away if you actually pay attention. A close friend of mine will be the first person to stand up and tell you she experienced more racism directed against her while living in California and Oregon than she ever has when she lived in Kentucky, Tennessee and Alabama (where she now resides).

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

read article 137c of the dutch "wetboek van strafrecht" if you don't believe it:

"Hij die zich in het openbaar, mondeling of bij geschrift of afbeelding, opzettelijk beledigend uitlaat over een groep mensen wegens hun ras, hun godsdienst of levensovertuiging of hetero- of homosexuele gerichtheid, wordt gestraft met een gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste een jaar of een geldboete van de derde categorie. "

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Weh]

"To be honest, dual citizenship alone should be enough to disqualify anyone from holding any civil post in a country, because it creates a clear conflict of interest."

that's tolerance for you isn't it?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[shutdown -p now]

that's tolerance for you isn't it?

No, that's just common sense. A citizenship, willingly held, implies some degree of loyalty to the state in which it is held. A person who holds citizenship of another state cannot be trusted to make impartial decisions when issues on which these two states may be in a disagreement.

That said, I'm not Dutch, so I'm not saying this is indeed the reason. Merely that it could be one, and it is a valid one.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[shutdown -p now]

So I second that motion. Obama will be president of the USA. Calling him "Leader of the Free World" pisses me off too since he sure as shit don't rule my country.

When I saw that designation, I couldn't help being reminded of another flowery one:

"His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular."

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Nethead]

In the US it's the gays and potheads.
I live in the Seattle area, gays and potheads are the normal ones.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[gad_zuki!]

You seem to have an incorrect understanding of the US. Let me preface this by telling you that you are used to a top-down government with one set of rules for all. A "one ring to rule them all" philosophy. The US is exactly what its name implied, a group of states. Most powers you like criticize are not dictated by the federal government like in typical European countries, but are powers given to each individual state, which there is 50 of.

>get abortions

Abortion is federally protected and the US has been a world-wide pioneer in rights for women, unlike the lagging European powers who have been 10-20 years behind. Not to mention, try getting one in Poland or anywhere with a strong Catholic majority in Europe.

>do soft drugs of various kinds

This is managed on a per state basis. I know there are lax rules for marijuana in California and Alaska for medical reasons. Define soft drugs while youre at it. I doubt I can syntehsize MDMA or GHB, sell it, or buy it in quantity in your country. Or anywhere in Europe. We have more in common with drugs then we do difference. One country with a tradition for hash coffeehouses isnt exactly a breakthrough.

>drink alcohol from the age of 16

States in the US use 21. I dont see a problem with this, especially considering our horrible rate of drunken driving fatalities and other social harm. To each his own. I doubt any humanitarian organization considers not being able to drink at 16 a civil right.

>get serviced by a hooker

Again, this is controlled on a per state basis. Nevada is famous for its hookers.

>get euthanasia

This is grey area all over the world. I think criticizing America for a right that most Europeans dont even have or recognize is being disingenuous.

>get married whether I'm gay, bi or straight

Again, this is done by a per state basis. There are at least two states that allow this now. It will be interesting to see this play out. Give it time before you criticize.

>get divorced

I dont know what propaganda you listen to, but all Americans can divorce.

>speak my mind

You, and most Europeans DO NOT HAVE THIS RIGHT. I can draw Muhammad cartoons all day and publish them to my hearts content without the EU sub-committe of oppressed rights of bigots sending me to prison. You guys are so far behind in this respect its embarrassing.

>drink on a sunday

So can I. There are dry counties in the US still, but they are local government actions. There is no federal law controlling drinking. There are no dry states and no federal law controlling drinking.

>have sex in public places so long as it's not visible from the street

Kudos to you. Personally I think its disgusting and unhygienic. I doubt any humanitarian organization recognizes this as a human right.

>go where I please (we don't need visa for 99% of the planet)

Huh? A US passport requires the least amount of visas to get around because of our influence. The exceptions are hostile regimes, budding world powers, and poor countries who need visa cash. Its incredible the places I can go to without a visa.

>None of which are freedoms I've seen Americans enjoy.

Youre wrong and ignorant. Perhaps you should have the right to be free from propaganda and get a proper education there in the Netherlands. You are ill educated on the basic politics of the world's only superpower and publically embarassing yourself. The Dutch minister of education would be blushing if he saw your post!

>bama will be president of the USA. Calling him "Leader of the Free World"

Well, he is. He will dictate world policy and is highly influential. When your ministers decide to do something big like war or treaties or whatever, they need to clear it with us first. Thats how the world works. Im not condoning it, but ignoring the power of the POTUS in today's world is being silly.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Digital End]

Corrections:

Abortions - Legal, providing the religious right hasn't burned down the hospital. Even if so, you're going to get shit for it.

Hooker - We have one state in 50, he still gets the point for this one (if hookers are a point, but still)

Divorce - Over half of marriges end in divorce (ironically, more religious homes have a higher rate, whats up with that?)... we're damn good at divorce in america

Alcohol - You can't purchase alcohol in much of the country on a sunday. Blue laws. You skipped the point of his post to argue the wording, not a good way to argue.

Visa - his point is that he can go to different countrys without needing to put a tag in his ear.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Arthur Grumbine]

As a Dutch citizen I have the perfect freedom to: - get abortions - do soft drugs of various kinds - drink alcohol from the age of 16 - get serviced by a hooker - get euthanasia - get married whether I'm gay, bi or straight - get divorced - speak my mind - drink on a sunday - have sex in public places so long as it's not visible from the street - go where I please (we don't need visa for 99% of the planet)

None of which are freedoms I've seen Americans enjoy.

So I second that motion. Obama will be president of the USA. Calling him "Leader of the Free World" pisses me off too since he sure as shit don't rule my country.

Actually, the only ones on that list that Americans really can't do are:
- get euthanasia
- have sex in public places
and these ones have the following qualifications:
- get married whether I'm gay, bi or straight
(this is defined/regulated by states and some DO allow it - Connecticut, Massachusetts)
- get serviced by a hooker
(prostitution's legality/regulation is defined by each state, and is permitted under regulation in Nevada and Rhode Island)
- do soft drugs of various kinds
(by this did you mean, "soft drugs that are illegal in the U.S."? Because we do have easy access to alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, as well as prescription-based availability to MANY more)

Your price for your handful of freedoms? A more socialist-leaning government that has no problem taking about 10% more of your income than our government does, and a nice hefty 19% sales tax (it's 0 - 10.25% in the U.S., depending upon the state).

And despite my personal dream of finding a male street-walker and paying him to have sex with me in the courthouse parking garage while we both get fried out of our minds, and then marrying him that day, and then mercifully ending his life the next day, after he ends up in a coma from overdosing - I somehow still feel pretty fucking free when I look at my net income vs. what I would have in most other countries, and realize how much more I can do with that money...

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Fjan11]

It's also interesting that you claim you don't need a Visa to visit 99% of the planet, yet those who want to visit YOU, do need one

I don't like that either, but those things are mostly decided on an EU level nowadays. It looks like we may lose our soft drug policy too for the same reason. The current government doesn't seem to mind much (a coalition of socialists and christian democats... no liberals of any kind).

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Fjan11]

Freedoms, you say? As a UK citizen I think taking on some of the things you "enjoy" would give me the perfect freedom to:

-pay for the National Health Service to abort the children of teenage sluts who are too lazy to be responsible for their actions

Uhm, the Netherlands has the lowest abortion rate in the world.

-pay for the National Health Service treatment of those who have been mugged/robbed by junkies

The number of junkies is on par with other countries, drug related crime is slightly lower due to junkies not needing that much money.

-pay for liver transplants for George Best-alike wastrels that see the liberalisation of alcohol as an adequate response to life's problems

Again, lower than European average

-pay for National Health Service treatment of STDs spread by hookers

Both STD and visits to prostitues are lower then elsewhere.
I could go on, but you get the point. The fact that it's legal certainly does not mean it's getting out of hand. Far from it.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[nthwaver]

Not if they're transgendered in some states.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[A12m0v]

freedom means different things to different people

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Catje]

A citizenship, willingly held, implies some degree of loyalty to the state in which it is held.

Morocco doesn't allow its citizens to give up their citizenship.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[rarity]

...for an increasingly long list of good reasons.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[tehcyder]

Dutch freedom of speech basically means you're allowed to say what the left-wing elite thinks is right. In the usa freedom of speech is absolute as long as you're not inciting violence. For example in holland, try saying that you don't like black people, homosexuals, muslems, etc*. Try starting a racist movement*. Try saying that you think homosexuals are sick*.

I'd love to see some evidence of this prevention of freedom of speech for genuinely just saying "I don't like black/homosexual/muslim people." Come on.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[TheRealJobe]

Ignorant American warning:

I've been through 37 states in my travels....

Who cant drink on Sunday per federal govt?

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[Uberbah]

No, that's just common sense. A citizenship, willingly held, implies some degree of loyalty to the state in which it is held. A person who holds citizenship of another state cannot be trusted to make impartial decisions when issues on which these two states may be in a disagreement.

Yeah, that was the argument against JFK - he'd be more loyal to the Pope than America. Or that Romney would be too much of a Mormon. Or that Obama would be too black.

You know, the usual asinine, indefensible bullshit.

Re:"soon-to-be Leader of the Free World"

[markharmony]

Then how do you explain Zwarte Piet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

Soo...

[denzacar]

Was it a brown one?

Re:Soo...

[denzacar]

He is a Zunian-American you insensitive clod!

Doesn't matter

[tsotha]

I seriously doubt Obama loads his own mp3 player, and that's a good thing. He's got lots to do before his first day on the job, and screwing with computers isn't on the list.

This is classic

[JamesRose]

It's one of those "what a product represents" things. The Zune is immediately uncool at slashdot because Microsoft, newsflash- Microsoft make some decent products. Rated Excellent at cnet- http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/microsoft-zune-120gb-third/4505-6490_7-33259222.html?tag=mncol;lst . Reality check, this is a good mp3 player that he got free, I'd be concerned if he went out and spent $250 just for a different make.

Re:This is classic

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Especially if it came preloaded with stuff, avoiding one of the biggest complaints about the Zune. I'm just surprised it took them so bloody long to figure out what to do. Because what Apple did was actually pretty simple.

Re:Uh, uh.

[thetoadwarrior]

Well to be fair the president isn't that powerful and only makes $400,000. While that is more than I make per year it's probably less than a band makes and I'm sure the band won't be willing to play for a sweaty president for the amount of money he could pay.

Or... (was: Re:so?)

[rhyder128k]

Perhaps it's just a prop that one of his advisers handed him to make him look hip.

Re:Or... (was: Re:so?)

[msuarezalvarez]

A MS Zune to make him loop hip?! That advisor should be promptly fired...

Re:Or... (was: Re:so?)

[maxume]

His advisers aren't that stupid.

Huh.

[transiit]

After the last articles about whether or not he'd get to keep his Blackberry, would any other device with non-volatile memory mean anything?

Not to go tinfoil hat, but shouldn't we be just a bit concerned about donated devices to the politically influential that may phone home? (Sure, who cares what the recipients listen to, but if any of these are personally identifiable, it wouldn't be a huge technological leap to read just a little extra info during a the next firmware update check.)

I'd guess that this has something to do with why the NSA tends to lean towards certifications (white-lists) rather than trying to shut out iffy devices (black-lists)

YMMV

RIAA vs. Obama?

[KronosReaver]

What brand player he uses is not news. What music he has on his player would be moderately interesting, but still not really news. Finding out how legal all of his music is WOULD be interesting...

I have my doubts

[Jamie's Nightmare]

I despise conspiracy theories as much as RMS hates shaving, but I'm not sure Obama is the Apple user people claim he is. At least I hope he isn't. The only source I can find is this Telegraph article that mentions it among "50 facts". What isn't told is just how the Telegraph acquired these facts or even who stated them. Barack himself or one of his aides? Details are short.

I can only find one picture of him sitting before 2 macbooks on a table, but they could have belonged to someone else.

Why not use a phone

[sniperu]

Why would anybody not use their phone as an mp3 player is beyond me. You already carry your phone don't you ? If you can afford an iPod you certainly can afford a phone that doubles as an mp3 player.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

Off the top of my head:

- Because I'd like to avoid shooting my mobile's battery to hell through constant use for music.

- Because despite the propaganda from various cell phones makers, there's more and more evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

- Because I'll never again bind myself with another 12/24/36 months contract to have the latest 'ooh, shiny' and I much prefer buying a cheap phone with no strings attached which will last me at least a couple of years. That way I can change provider whenever I feel like it.

That's thinking about it for a couple of minutes. I'm pretty sure different people could find other reasons easily enough.

Re:Why not use a phone

[LingNoi]

Because despite the propaganda from various cell phones makers, there's more and more evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

*rolls eyes*

and what might that be? If you say radiation, hand in your geek card and get the fuck out.

Re:Why not use a phone

[ketilwaa]

Because despite the propaganda from various cell phones makers, there's more and more evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

Citation, please. A glance at PubMed does not give any clear indication, especially not regarding just carrying a mobile phone around.

Re:Why not use a phone

[squiggleslash]

Because most mobile phones have very little storage space, in general, and the user interfaces for playing music are usually crap and often battery intensive (MIDP MP3 players, etc.)

Slow Down Cowboy!

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Re:Why not use a phone

[macshome]

Really? What airline? In the US at least as long as you are in airplane mode you should be fine.

Every now and then you will get a flight attendant that makes up their own rules on this stuff and that is annoying, but in 120K of miles this year I've only had that happen once.

Re:Why not use a phone

[Hurricane78]

And that's one of the two reasons I don't fly (at least in the US).
The other reason is, that I'm half Afghani, and I don't want to risk being detained at Guantanamo because they don't like my face.

The biggest joke is that my whole Afghani family fought the Russians, for the US, with US weapons (the same source that Osama has his weapons from). So we should be called freedom fighters, like the soldiers and firefighters of the US. But who cares if two of my uncles got tortured in Russian prisons because of that war? Right?

Re:Why not use a phone

[ozphx]

Because I'd like to avoid shooting my mobile's battery to hell through constant use for music.

Considering the battery is there for running a moderate output transmitter, its not surprising that playing music pretty much has bugger all effect on battery life if you are involved in a call a day. (My W350's battery is barely scratched by playing music as opposed to normal standby).

Because despite the propaganda from various cell phones makers, there's more and more evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

If you read the GSM spec, you'll find when your phone is idle its transmitter is switched off. It listens to the closest towers, and when it notices its switched area (as in group of towers) it wakes up, notifys the BSC and goes back to sleep. Considering then its mainly a non-transmitting device like an iPod - I doubt the health issues are from anything but hippies. (I mean come on, its got a tiny battery - just how much energy can it deliver to your balls without flattening it? :P)

Because I'll never again bind myself with another 12/24/36 months contract to have the latest 'ooh, shiny' and I much prefer buying a cheap phone with no strings attached which will last me at least a couple of years. That way I can change provider whenever I feel like it.

Me too. Thats why I bought outright every phone I have owned.

Re:Why not use a phone

[CommentThingSucks]

evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

No doubt. Wouldn't your arms get tired?

Re:Why not use a phone

[Daengbo]

Do you seriously need to carry around 100GB of music with you? Can't you just switch out 10-20GB at a time? How much music do you listen to? Do you ever have a conversation with anyone? Wow.

Re:Why not use a phone

[logicnazi]

Well, yes in a certain very distorted sense of the word there is more evidence coming out that carrying a cell phone isn't very healthy, I mean as time passes we do see more studies claiming connections between negative health outcomes and cell phone use. However, we also see more studies disputing this link.

Could cell phones be somewhat unhealthy? Sure, but there are some careful studies suggesting the opposite and most importantly any theoretical basis for the supposed effect is at best pretty speculative.

First of all ask yourself if you were a cell phone company would it make sense to go out and suppress the science with some organized cover up? For starters given that lots of smart people who have read the research aren't convinced it's likely that your biases as a cell phone exec would virtually guarantee that you didn't believe the health claims. But in that case you would want to fund the most reputable scientists and perform the most respectable study possible rather than funding less influential rent-a-studies. Even if these execs have been convinced of the link by a unpublished stream of compelling evidence the lawsuit against the tobacco companies should have taught them that you shouldn't cover up the science and risk liability when you can just use advertising to associate your product with healthy living in the mind of the public despite the science.

I mean let's be serious, the idea that the cell phone companies are engaged in some intentional plan to cover up the evidence about cell phone harm just isn't plausible. But while it isn't as sexy we know that publication bias exists and can have a substantial effect. Scientists want to spend their time on papers that will bring recognition, grants and employment not ones that say "we didn't find any statistically significant correlation in the groups we examined." This means we are a lot more likely to hear about data sets showing a link than those that don't. After all 5% of studies should end up with an effect at a 95% significance.

Moreover, it's hugely difficult to run a randomized trial for this kind of claim meaning that any effect could be nothing more than an unrecognized prior cause. People who use cell phones are far more likely to use a wide range of other products and probably correlates with a ton of genetic and socio-economic factors. Even studies linking which ear people used for their phone to later cancer occurrence aren't definitive. It's certainly plausible that our dominant hemisphere is more active/different and thus runs a greater risk of cancer.

The truth is that these sort of weak statistical links between an item an ill health effects are frequently wrong and need to be examined carefully. If, as we see in the cell phone study, not only do the studies go both ways but the more careful positive studies show a weaker effect and we lack any firm theoretical foundation for expecting an effect we should conclude it's probably just an artifact of publication bias or common causation.

Of course given that people are so conviced radiation is evil that they falsely convince themselves it makes them sick I don't expect this kind of reasoned consideration to have much impact on the public at large. However, if you are that afraid of "radiation" you should find another website.

Re:Why not use a phone

[macshome]

Well that just sucks. I would loose my mind without my iPhone for music and movies in the air.

At least I can count one way in which the US airline experience is better now.

Re:Why not use a phone

[Hatta]

Why would Obama still have a phone? He has people for that now. Giving the president a cell phone probably constitutes a national security risk. He's already had his privacy breached once. Don't forget you can track people with those things too.

Re:Why not use a phone

[UMNbandgeek]

Because I like having more than a pittance of songs available, and I don't feel like paying tons of money to get a new fancy phone that will even play music. As for the topic at hand, I have a Zune 80, and I think it's THE best music player I have ever owned. I have a ton of music, and now that Creative dropped the ball on their hard drive players, the only choices for >30 GB are miscrosoft and Apple. The zune was cheaper, has more features, and the interface blows any ipod I've ever used out of the water. While I don't especially agree with the software being locked to windows, I think its very user friendly. Now, if you could show me a phone with more than 30 gigs of storage for music, that is as easy to use as my zune, and costs what my zune and current phone did ($200+0), then I might consider using a phone instead of a dedicated mp3 player.

Re:Why not use a phone

[YesIAmAScript]

If you read the GSM spec, you'll find when your phone is idle its transmitter is switched off. It listens to the closest towers, and when it notices its switched area (as in group of towers) it wakes up, notifys the BSC and goes back to sleep.

This is unequivocally wrong. Just put your "idle" phone next to a clock radio for 20 minutes. When it goes "dit dit dit" over the radio speaker, you'll know the transmitter is on. It generally checks in with the tower a couple times a hour, even when not switching towers.

In this it's tough to dismiss health concerns out of hand, especially with GSM. Name another device you have that frequently causes interference with nearly any device that has an audio amplifier? It's clear the RF energy characteristics of cell phones (esp. GSM) are not the same as other devices we are used to, so it's difficult to offhand say they couldn't possibly affect other parts of their environment (like our bodies) in different ways than other electronic devices.

Re:Why not use a phone

[IICV]

- Because despite the propaganda from various cell phones makers, there's more and more evidence coming out that tends to show it's not very healthy to carry one over you for long stretches of time.

No, there isn't. This is parallel to the cycle that happens to most complementary and alternative medicine with regard to peer reviewed evidence - there are a bunch of small studies that seem to show a slight effect, and then there's one large study that shows no effect. Then there's more and more small studies that seem to show a slight effect, followed by a large study that shows none. There's "more and more evidence" because those small, sometimes badly-run studies are influenced by publication bias - nobody's going to finish and write up a small study that shows no result.

Basically, there is no real evidence that implies a link between any sort of bad health and carrying a cell phone. There's no known physical mechanism by which this could happen, and there's no feasible theoretical mechanism.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

Considering the battery is there for running a moderate output transmitter, its not surprising that playing music pretty much has bugger all effect on battery life if you are involved in a call a day. (My W350's battery is barely scratched by playing music as opposed to normal standby).

So basically you argue that the effect is mostly negligible. I tend to disagree, but I find even a six hours difference over a week matters so I guess we can't agree.

If you read the GSM spec, you'll find when your phone is idle its transmitter is switched off. It listens to the closest towers, and when it notices its switched area (as in group of towers) it wakes up, notifys the BSC and goes back to sleep. Considering then its mainly a non-transmitting device like an iPod - I doubt the health issues are from anything but hippies. (I mean come on, its got a tiny battery - just how much energy can it deliver to your balls without flattening it? :P)

I'd have spoken of EM waves, but since many have answered with the word 'radiation', let's use it. It's not like it's inaccurate, after all.

For those who mock the attitude, shall I remind you that first, radiation of any kind have a cumulative effect over time . So, sure, your phone may not be dangerous by itself, but it's far from the only thing around you that emits something. Whatever step you can take to diminish these is positive.

My second point is related to that: the power of those waves decreases tremendously with distance - if only a few meters - hence avoiding to keep over myself even an intermittent transmitter if there's no valid reason to do so.

My third point is that my stance may be of the tinfoil hat category, but scientist have demonstrated time and again that having money to fund whatever (which basically is their paycheck) was reason enough to write biased articles (at least it is for many of them). It's not like having a framed diploma makes you magically wealthy. As for the companies themselves, whoever thinks that they'd have second thoughts is fooling themselves.

I, for one, prefer to err on the side of caution.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

See my answer to the answer of ozphx

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

Exactly my point. See my answer to the answer of ozphx

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

Eh.

Nice one.

Re:Why not use a phone

[Runefox]

You do realize that the entire Afghani people aren't responsible for Osama Bin Laden's actions, nor 9/11, right?

Hell, it's like the USA as a whole saying to the African-American populous, "You know what? We freed you from slavery, and like every race, not all of you are model citizens. Some of you have committed murder - And on white people, your former slavers, no less! So we're going to keep a close eye on all of you, and the moment something goes wrong, you're to blame. Got it?" ... Wait, that actually already happens.

Damn, that's stupid. What a pitiful state of mind.

Re:Why not use a phone

[ketilwaa]

How did your point coincide with mine? I have not seen any evidence that mobile phones are dangerous to carry around, neither have I been presented anything in that regard from my lecturers at Faculty of Medicine at my school.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

I'll ask you what makes you so sure, since as far as I'm aware there are no high profile independent studies that have dared answered in any conclusive way.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

Well, yes in a certain very distorted sense of the word there is more evidence coming out that carrying a cell phone isn't very healthy, I mean as time passes we do see more studies claiming connections between negative health outcomes and cell phone use. However, we also see more studies disputing this link.

Hence me being cautious.

For more elaboration, see my answer to the answer of ozphx.

Re:Why not use a phone

[trenien]

My point is that there's no clear indication.

Re:Why not use a phone

[Si-UCP]

Because the phone (well, at least, my phone, a Sony Ericsson W810i) has horrible sound quality. The hissing off that thing when using even a pair of $30 earphones is ridiculous. My iPod touch, by comparison, has almost no hissing (even if you listen to it at maximum volume, there's still less hiss than my phone). My phone also has horrible music management capabilities. The names of the songs, albums, and artists are all cut off at, like, 16 characters; you can't search by genre; when searching by album, sometimes the track order is reversed; there's no album art; and the phone, for some reason, includes its horrible ringtones into the music library. There exist only two good things about my phone's music player: It has this really awesome bass boost that I like to turn on for fun to pretend I'm sitting in some tricked-out ride; and it doesn't require iTunes.

Re:Why not use a phone

[slimjim8094]

You're right - it does do a periodic check-in.

However, the amplification components of the radio act as detectors to the GSM signal. It's not an interference issue.

A couple of watts microwave RF energy isn't anything to worry about, unless you're on your cellphone all the time.

Re:Why not use a phone

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

If you can't buy an iPhone without a contract, that's an issue with your carrier, not Apple.

Re:Why not use a phone

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Because my music player is smaller, lighter, more feature-laden, has more storage, has a brighter and larger screen, plays videos, fits in my shirt pocket without weighing it down, has a non-fragile USB plug, accepts standard headphones, has incredible battery life, and works far better under Linux than my phone.

But apart from that, no reason at all.

Re:Why not use a phone

[thegnu]

However, the amplification components of the radio act as detectors to the GSM signal. It's not an interference issue.

The amplification component of my testicles is precisely the bit I'm worried about, though.

Re:Why not use a phone

[LingNoi]

If you think the radiation in phones is going to give you a brain tumor then you'd better also not let sun light touch you because it's the same type of radiation!

Now the bad kind of radiation, that'll kill you, but you're also forgetting that your exposed to that too, it comes from space.

Lastly, everyone has a phone. Don't you think that if it was a big health risk that 90% of the population would be dying off by now like obesity is doing? Use your head!

Re:Why not use a phone

[LingNoi]

and I'll ask you what makes you so sure of the opposite? Where is your peer reviewed proof?

Here is mine..

"Mobile phone signals were found to have no significant effects on either cognitive measures, such as reaction times, or other measures of brain activity. At present there appears to be no need for further studies of cognitive performance or brain activity in healthy adult volunteers."

http://www.mthr.org.uk/documents/MTHR_report_2007.pdf

Re:Why not use a phone

[BlackSnake112]

Have you ever driven on an 8+ hour car trip? Having your whole collections can be a good thing at times. Most do not need it. Some want to bring their collection with them. I even take my laptop with me. I have an ipod not a zune, same idea though. The laptop is when my ipod is 'homed'. So if I am around people with CDs I want, I rip them and add them to the collection.

Re:Why not use a phone

[Hurricane78]

Guys, please. This are facts. I did not troll. And I do not hate Americans per se... Because I'm not stupid.
I hate criminal government people, like Cheney, Putin, SchÃuble, and their minions.

This shit really happened. My uncles were really tortured. The US really gave the Mujaheddin the weapons (eg Stinger rockets), and my father even made documentation movies about it.

Oh, and I really fear, that flying to the US will get me into trouble over nothing.

So, moderating me "Troll" is really insensitive!
Especially since I really wish the best to the people (not the government) of the USA (or any other country for that matter).

Re:Why not use a phone

[Hurricane78]

You have no fuckin' clue what you are talking about!

Russia invaded countries in the 70s and 80s, to integrate them into the Soviet Union.
The US, being in the "cold" war with them, could not stand Russia growing and growing.
So because they could not fight a direct war, the gave weapons and resources to the "freedom fighters" (Mujaheddin) of Afghanistan.
Of course the weapons were welcome help. But not the strings that were attached to it.
My father, and my uncles, were Mujaheddin. Not because they liked it, but because it was the only choice.

So the US and Russia fought wars all around Asia, in the so-called "cold war". At the cost of our lives!
It had nothing to do with "freeing" anything. And still today it never has. Or do you seriously still think, invading Iraq had anything to do with freedom?
You don't even understand the system of power down there!
People there have hierachies of trust. Created in centuries, and solid as a rock.
If you create a parliament down there, what you get, is the chiefs of the largest tribes (or their straw men) being the parliament, and everybody voting for what the chiefs say. Because they are - in a way - the head of the larger family.
You will not change this fact for the next century.

Same thing with Afghanistan.

<troll>Arrogant assholes like you, sitting in their corn fields, on their farms in kentucky, eating squirrels (*hint* stereotype *hint*) an praying to the $deity of their schizophreny, are the human crap, that give this once great nation called the USA that dirty look of a fundamentalist theocracy full of lazy retards. Go leave the USA and make your own Elbonia-Texas-Alaska crossover third world country! </troll>

And I'm not even a Muslim.

Re:Why not use a phone

[mcvos]

This was plotted of course, while the US was actively in a SHOOTING WAR to help out muslems in another country (Baltics) that were being persecuted and killed by christians.

Among all the other ignorance in your post, this one really stands out. I don't think the US has ever been in a shooting war in the Baltics. You're probably confusing the Baltics (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania) with Bosnia (part of former Yugoslavia).

Hey, they both start with a 'B' right?

Zune sighted in real world!

[Tom]

You guys are all missing the point! The "news, things that matter" part of this isn't that Obama is using a Zune, but that a Zune has actually been seen being used by someone. Happens to be the president-elect, that's just the bonus celebrity factor. But have you ever seen a Zune outside a store? See, now you know why this is news. :-)

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[Lennie]

F*ck your right, I think we all missed that one.

An other observation: it seems he got it for free, so this one had never seen the inside of a store.

Conclusion: no1 buys these things.

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[bi_boy]

You sir, win.

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[mqduck]

Fuck your own rights, asshole.

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[blind biker]

To be honest, no I have not. Ever. I live and travel across Europe, so that may be another factor (I suppose Zune is more popular in the US than here). Mostly people use their mobile phones as MP3 players, or some Apple gadget. I see a lot have the Creative Muvos and Zens...

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[awshidahak]

Believe it or not i actually have seen one outside the store. One fell out of the truck on the way to the store.

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[TinBromide]

DRAT!!! I own a zune, but I bought it "before they were cool because Obama used one". I'm gonna have to ditch it in favor of a usb-humping-dog-mp3-stick (its the internet, i'm sure they make one).

Oh wait, the Zune will never be cool.

PS. I have NEVER seen someone else use the zune, and I fly quite a bit and will routinely see 10-12 ipods in the airport each trip, so its not like i'm staying away from the areas where someone derives benefit from an mp3 player.

Re:Zune sighted in real world!

[wilgibson]

You took the words out of my mouth. I love my Zune and would use it any day over an iPod. Yes I own a Zune, and I didn't get it for free.

sigh

[ramul]

obama, you used to be cool.

Re:Uh, uh.

[Zontar The Mindless]

...I'm sure the band won't be willing to play for a sweaty president for the amount of money he could pay.

However, it could conceivably make for some most excellent marketing.

(NB: I am only reading this non-story because I'm waiting for a build to finish, iPods suck, I already have coffee, and there seem to be no hot babes walking past my building at the present time. So there!)

It's easy.

[Qetu]

He likes squirting.

It would have to be...

[whoop]

... for hope for change for the future for our children.

Or, it's because Bush uses an Ipod.

Re:Uh, uh.

[db32]

I heard the band XYZ recently returned from overseas....we have some questions to ask...

Who the hell said anything about paying anyone? Make em play or toss em in gitmo! Don't stand there like we didn't let the Executive branch grow its power exponentially over the last 8 years...

OMG!!!

[mjeffers]

But the President Elect pullout poster in this month's Tiger Beat CLEARLY stated that Barack loves listening to David Cassidy songs on his iPod. If I can't believe that how do you know that he really loves puppies and rainbows and if that's not true I'LL JUST DIE!!!

I like the guy, I voted for the guy, and this sort of bullshit is just embarrassing.

Re:Uh, uh.

[thetoadwarrior]

Hopefully that will be rectified in the future rather than the president using those powers to have a personal concert every day. ;)

Downfall of Apple?

[zer0that]

With the stock market the way it is, will this have any affect on the opening bell?

for the record

[Dolphinzilla]

I dont care to know any of the following about Obama's preferences:

1. Ipod or Zune
2. Apple or PC
3. Charmin or Scott
4. Missionary or Doggy
5. Chevy or Ford

Folks get over it - Obama is not the second coming and he's not the Antichrist -

Re:for the record

[sheldon]

Did anybody ask the all important question this year?

Briefs or Boxers?

Re:for the record

[PCM2]

5. Chevy or Ford

Actually, this last one seems pretty relevant right now.

That is three then?

[denzacar]

These two and now Obama.

Balmer probably has one too, but I don't think that anyone would want to "squirt" anything with him.
Maybe only Dick Cheney.

Re:That is three then?

[Valdrax]

You realize that one of those people is the CEO of the company that makes the product and the other is a fictional character who pals around with a drunken DIVX player and a fruit-raping machine, right? And that the comic is making fun of how no one owns the things?

More importantly...

[chisquare]

Does he use vi or emacs?

Re:More importantly...

[A12m0v]

notepad.exe

Re:More importantly...

[jo_ham]

His left hand uses vi, his right hand uses emacs.

And no, I have no idea how he handles meta keys. Nose probably.

Re:More importantly...

[bledri]

notepad.exe

I hope at least notepad++, but if he want to reach across the aisle than we're back to something cross platform...

Re:More importantly...

[HAKdragon]

TextEdit.app

Probably got it off Woot!

[jridley]

He's demonstrating his fiscal smarts. He probably got the Zune off Woot a few months ago when they were pretty much giving them away.

Personally I wouldn't buy EITHER an iPod or a Zune. I'm very happy with my Sandisk Fuze, and it's half the price of a Nano and has better specs and sounds better. And I don't like itunes either.

the majority of Americans...

[markdowling]

who bothered voting, at any rate. The other 37% - well he'll represent all of them because that's what happens when you're too damn lazy to vote.

Why should we care?

[jotaeleemeese]

I am sitting here in the UK trying to figure that one out. It would have been mildly interesting if he had been using a non descript MP3 player. To imply that Barack "Uber Cool" Obama should be using an iPod by default is frankly beyond childish.

Meet the Body Man

[rssrss]

My guess is that Obama does not know what kind of music player he is using, does not load it and has no idea what software is involved. The difference between him and you geeks is that he has a personal assistant who has that job. Read on:

"Obama's 'body man' on his game: Ex-Duke athlete and 'good people person' Reggie Love helps keep senator fit, fed and hydrated on trail" by John Mccormick and Tribune Staff Reporter in the Chicago Tribune on November 15, 2007:

Reggie Love makes sure the water bottle is always full, the PowerBars are stocked and that the boss gets out of bed on time for his daily exercise regimen. The former football and basketball player at Duke University is what presidential campaigns call a "body man." Every major candidate has one. Love, 25, has walked - literally - in Sen.Barack Obama's shadow since February, acting as something of a traveling valetto make sure the Illinois Democrat's personal needs are met.

He snaps photos when supporters ask that their picture be taken with thecandidate, makes sure there is always a Sharpie marker at the ready forautographs and keeps the candidate's favorite music loaded on the iPod. ...

More here with pictures: "On the Court and on the Trail, One Aide Looms Over Obama" by Ashley Parker in the NYTimes on May 27, 2008.

More pop culture

[p51d007]

Here we go...more pop culture BS! Who gives a rats ass?

Obamania

[Gothmolly]

Why would the supporters of a political candidate care what mp3 player he uses, unless they support him for reasons irrelevant to his candidacy? oh wait, everyone did ...

Microsoft product eh?

[monktus]

Then he's not a communist after all!

A Simple bribe

[nurb432]

Free player with free music.

I wonder who many songs were on there, the actual 'street value' of the music.

WTF?

[Elwood_Black]

This whole thread is a waste of bandwidth that could have been used for spam and Nigerian scams.

What a lot of bollocks.

[kno3]

Why have I been informed of this? why is anybody interested? leave the poor guy alone!

Change and Hope

[FatherOfONe]

Well seeing that by change he meant choosing the same old Democrats to his cabinet, and he continues to vote for needless bailouts, one can now assume that he meant CHANGING to Zune from the ipod. You also have to love the 2 Billion that will be taken from NASA :-)

I guess hope means that we will hope that this is a one term president.

ENOUGH!

[Rysc]

Do we care what brand tooth paste Obama uses? Do we care what kind of perfume, if any, his wife buys?

Enough with this meaningless celebrity worship! We don't need to obsess over every minute detail of someone just because he's famous or powerful. Focus on things that /matter/!

typical...

[Dailao]

"..leader of the free world"

Hello ! You must be American. Noone else would talk like the whole world only evolves around the USA and their leader.
There are plenty of other free countries, and most of them don't give a flying - well you know - what Obama does or doesn't do.

He sure as hell isn't my leader.

TMZ

[Culture20]

/. should turn idle into "TMZ for nerds"

In other news...

[awshidahak]

I left shaking my head after a report surfaced that the my grandmother was using a rotary phone at her house instead of a touch tone. So why would gas stove user grandma be rotar-ing out? Could be one of those special-edition telephones that ma bell bestowed on all their customers at one time, suggests myself, nixing the idea that the grandmother in my family would waste time turning a wheel on a telephone just to call someone. What? It's about as valuable information to the world as the fact that Obama is using a Zune. It really doesn't matter that much. Next thing we'll be finding out that he takes showers in the evening instead of the morning. Why would the president-elect ever take an evening shower? We should impeach him now. It's almost as bad as that one time when he used a Zune instead of an iPod, thus breaking the law made when the government was sold to Apple.

What really happened

[Have Blue]

The president is smarter than you think. He just wants make his iPod a less attractive target for theft.

For the Radio Tuner?

[hoovanator13]

Not sure about the latest ipods, but when I bought my Zune a year ago it was because it had a built in radio tuner (and ipods did not) and I wanted to be able to listen to sports games while working outside on the weekends. I think some gyms broadcast audio from the TV's in the gym over radio, so maybe that's why he was using a Zune.

Maybe because Zune Pass is a great deal?

[harlows_monkeys]

iTunes Store: millions of songs. Download and keep any song for $1.

Zune Pass: millions of songs. For a flat rate of $15/month, download as many as you want, for use on up to three Zunes and three computers. Each month, you get to designate 10 of these as permanent. If you cancel your subscription, you keep the ones you designated as permanent, and the rest go away.

I have two iPods and an iPhone, and I'm sorely tempted to get a Zune for Zune Pass. That's a fantastic deal.

Re:Maybe because Zune Pass is a great deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? $15/month for 10 permanent songs, which works out to $1.50 per song, plus a 10 song per month cap. Even if the 10 "permanent" songs became completely DRM free, it still sounds like a gip.

And three zunes and three computers? Wha? Who knows anyone who has three zunes (or two friend with zunes)? This also means I can't send songs to friends for them to listen, and see if they want more. Sorry, Zune Pass sounds like a gip, even if they had market saturation, and everyone had zunes to share, and extra zunes got to keep their copies if the subscription was deactivated.

I would take the DRM-free apple model any day.

Disclaimer: I have never bought a song from i-Tunes or any other online store. Currently seeding ~100gb+ of music, plus Limewire and eMule. Yar-harrr!

Re:Maybe because Zune Pass is a great deal?

[Vickor]

It isn't $15 for 10 songs, its $15 for unlimited songs, 10 of which you get to keep beyond the subscription. Or thinking of it another way: its a $5 subscription fee for unlimited songs, as long as you buy 10 songs each month. Anything sounds like a gip when you steal all your music, but the Zune pass is still an excellent deal. Also, the apple model is not DRM-free last I checked. Some songs are DRM-free but they cost more. I just looked and the Zune store has the same policy.

Re:Maybe because Zune Pass is a great deal?

[tehcyder]

I would take the DRM-free apple model any day.

Thanks for the best laugh of the day on /.

I see, America has no other things to care about..

[drolli]

Yes, very fitting. Half a million people lost their Job recently, Americas biggest car companies only survive iv every family gives them apptox. 300 Dollars immediatly, the bank sector is in shambles, one ally in the war against terror loses control over his country, california is bancrupt, the fed has no control over the situation, and millions of houseowners are in debts for the rest of their life.

It seems to me quite cynical to discuss wheter Obama uses one monopolists or the others (in certain sectors Apple still has a monopoly, which they nurturrd with similar techniques as Microsoft, if you dont believe that try to get your preprint file with a non-apple color calibration to a medium sized print store.... good luck) product.

He sure as hell isn't my leader.

[/dev/trash]

Do you have oil? if so I'd watch what I say.

Obama listened to SID's and I...

[AlpineR]

Oh dear. Are you talking about the feeling of "too much excitement to contain"? Watched this digital short (top video, not safe for humorless workplaces) from last night's Saturday Night Live.

It is very much a religion

[Sycraft-fu]

To many people. Some people use Apple products because they do the job best for them (a number of media professionals, for example). Others them because they are stylish, and functional concerns really never enter in to it (sorority girls, for example). However there is another group, and a sizable part of Apple's market, who uses Apple because they think it makes them better people. Apple has long sold this image of "Our shit is better than the normal, and you are a better person if you use it." Now while it would be nice to think people would just write that off as marketing, some don't. They buy in to that image.

Well, people with an attitude like that really do turn this sort of thing in to a religion. You get the dogmatic idea of it Apple does it, it's good, if Microsoft does it, it's bad sort of thing.

That was really evident when Apple switched over from PPC chips to Intel chips. For years the zealot types had held that PPC was the One True Way(tm) and Macs were much faster because of it. Then all of a sudden the dogma had to be changed, and it did, they were smoothly proclaiming how amazing the Core 2 series was, and how smart Apple was for using it.

So ya, when it comes to Apple news, you can count on things getting a little over hyped due to the whole religious aspect of it. Thus you get retarded pieces like this, written by some Mac zealot who thinks it really makes a difference what MP3 player the president elect uses (or that indeed he's even aware of what MP3 player he has).

Re:It is very much a religion

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

That was really evident when Apple switched over from PPC chips to Intel chips. For years the zealot types had held that PPC was the One True Way(tm) and Macs were much faster because of it. Then all of a sudden the dogma had to be changed, and it did, they were smoothly proclaiming how amazing the Core 2 series was, and how smart Apple was for using it.

I have to take issue here, because the industry is complex and things change. At the time, the PPC was pretty good, and it definitely had very real, perceivable advantages to users -- it wasn't all just marketing BS. One example I can think of was playing large, high-quality video. But then it seemed that IBM was no longer interested in PPC for consumer computers, so moving to Intel made sense.

The other part of this is that you can't go to a site like Slashdot, lump all Apple users together, and then point out how they are hypocrites, since they aren't a single hive mind, but a group of individuals. Once you subscribe to the idea of Mac Zealots, pretty soon you will see many zealots because of your selective bias and assumptions. Not that there aren't any genuine Mac zealots, of course.

What Really Matters

[revxul]

Typical Apple Cultists: The economy is in the crapper and multiple wars are looming over our heads and these sheeple are groaning over what freaking media player President Elect Obama uses.

Me too!!!

[AlpineR]

Actually, I find this article to be an interesting statement on the culture of Slashdot. Now that we have a place where humor belongs (Idle) and since that place is so dreadful, apparently humor is intolerable on the main page.

I thought it was funny. Perfect material for inconsequential comments on a lazy Sunday in a time of crisis.

Re:Uh, uh.

[mr_matticus]

Yeah, $400,000 doesn't sound like a lot until you consider that he doesn't have to pay for anything while he's in office. There are no Air Force One bills; his household staff is paid out of the nation's pocket, and there's even a multi-million dollar budget for decorating the residence with furniture, art, and whatever else the First Family wants. No filling up at the pump; no Comcast bill, no paying to heat that six-story mansion he lives in. No medical copays, no need to pay for insurance.

And I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone more powerful than the President of the United States of America. Wealthier, sure. Influential in a specific industry, yeah. But overall? I think not.

Correction - he is an iPod guy

[Midnight Thunder]

According to the following article in Wired he is in fact an iPod guy:

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/zunegate-day-tw.html

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Kent Recal]

Oh cool, an ipod rant! Let me chime in.

I have a nano here, bought it because well, it's the mp3 player, right?
After owning it for roughly I year I'm quite sure that my next mp3 player will not be an ipod again.

Here's my list:

Pro:

• Top notch look, feel and build. There's no discussion, this is the slickest player on the market.
• Size, form factor. Again this thing is slick, robust and nearly as small as it gets before becoming unusable (for a player with a display). It fits in every pocket and weights nothing.
• Hip-Factor. "Oh Cute"-Factor. etc.

Con:

• Usability. The click-wheel is awesome but at the same time it's fairly hard to operate the player without looking (e.g. inside a pocket). All cable remotes I have seen also have a clickwheel. I've learned that in situations where I can't or don't want to pull out the player (e.g. while biking or while walking through a shady park) I'd much prefer old fashioned buttons with tactile feel and a physical volume slider.
• Playlists. So I have this fancy scroll-wheel navigation but am not allowed to create playlists on the player? What were they thinking?
• No raw directory structure. I'm using amarok to feed my ipod and it works okay. But many of my mp3s are not properly tagged and don't contain cover art, thus the builtin browsers are mostly useless to me, except for the playlists that I previously prepared in amarok. I'd much prefer if I could just navigate my existing directory structure instead of being forced into the flattened itunes-view.

So, these are small issues at first but once the "Oh Shiny"-factor wears off they turn into real annoyances.
I've come to the conclusion that the ipod really is a blender (admittedly a good one!) amongst the mp3 players and that a different device will probably serve me better, even if it's not quite as shiny on the surface.

Can someone recommend a device that fares better in the areas I mentioned?

Gym

[Fri13]

Seems that most of slashdotters miss the real point on this news.... Obama goes to gym... the Zune is just a sidenote on this news but still most of readers only looks that...

No he doesn't

[nEoN nOoDlE]

According to Wired, an Obama advisor says he's an iPod man.

zunes are amazing

[docgiggles]

i own and love a 30gb Zune, and i am happy that Microsoft is getting good press. Apple has an undeserved share of the market, and the Zune is a great product. go buy one

Seriously?

[ildon]

You've got to be fucking kidding me. Who the fuck cares?

Change I can beleive in

[lilfields]

In all honesty, aside from the iPhone and iPod Touch, the Zune is actually a better player than the iPod; He probably likes it because it has radio, among other things.

FM Radio?

[the-matt-mobile]

Or could it be because he'd like to listen to the radio occasionally on his music device? Geez Apple - how hard could it be?!

Re:FM Radio?

[enoz]

The few iPod owners I have spoken to said they never listened to the radio and never want to.

Perhaps that attitude is related to why they bought an iPod as opposed to a better value device...

Just legislate a fix

[EmagGeek]

Since the hippy socialist crowd is in power now, they should just pass a law making iPod the mandatory standard in music players, and issue every American their own iPod at birth. After all, owning an iPod is the first step on the road to enlightenment.

Obama's Zune

[gloomboom dotcom]

Obama needs to think before he uses a Zune instead of an ipod. Think of all the news reports!

Obama Nation

[gloomboom dotcom]

Obama doesn't have a clue. What has he ever done or managed in his life? He is just repeating what his 'advisors' have told him will work. It's a crap shoot which usually just results in displaced crap.

...eh?

[Digital End]

This is news? Even crap news?

I own a Zune, it's a damn fine MP3 player... and I don't have to jump through itunes hoops. I find a lot of mac's stuff pretentious, and just prefer it.

Hell forbid we find out he's using shower gel instead of good american bar soap.

Re:...eh?

[DragonTHC]

nah, everyone knows the president-elect uses dark'n'lovely shower gel.

Re:That's not the point.

[SEE]

Heh heh heh.

You actually thought during-campaign policy advisors are anything more than window dressing?

Policy proposals during a campaign are focused on only one thing -- winning votes. (Sometimes indirectly, to win donations so that you can win votes.) Accordingly, they are not crafted by policy advisors, but by political consultants. As a consequence, policy advisors are not chosen by the candidate for their policy advice; they are selected by the political consultants to attract votes (and donations).

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Moofie]

Every ipod I've ever used can create an on-the-go playlist on the fly.

And I don't know if I've ever seen a cable remote that has a clickwheel. The Apple FM Radio remote certainly doesn't.

I stopped caring about directory structure when I started using iTunes' smart playlists. Why do I care where the file is stored, if I can hit all its criteria with a query?

And I find iTunes really good at batch-updating id3 tags.

Good luck with your search.

He's working out...

[theJML]

Perhaps, he uses the zune because he doesn't care if it falls off his arm and breaks... or if shaking it violently kills the battery or screen or screws up the player in anyway. I mean, sure it's all solid state, but there are lots of idiots in gyms and people can bump into you and you can scratch up your player pretty easy if you're not careful. So this is his way of using a free zune in a way that leaves his ipod in pristine shape.

At the end of the day, it's an mp3 player. The fact that he's not trying this with a cd walkman is probably a good sign.

Slow slashdot day apparently.

Zunegate? You can't be serious.

[OverflowingBitBucket]

If the president-elect was using a Zune stolen violently from a small child, that would justify "Zunegate".

If the president-elect secretly pumped millions of dollars of public funds into Zune development, that would justify "Zunegate".

If the president-elect was found in an inappropriate coupling with an intern and they were both listening to Zunes at the time, that would justify "Zunegate".

He's just using one. Are there really people who are genuinely disturbed, concerned, or bothered in the slightest that he's listening to music on a Zune? No don't answer that. Perhaps I should ask: Should anyone in their right mind be even slightly concerned?

So what if he's using one!? He probably has other music players at home if it really bothers people.

And don't even get me started on "instead of an iPod". Geeesh.

As if I needed more proof that nobody RTFA

[Lars T.]

Nobody has yet to say how fucked up the display of the second article is in Firefox 3. PS:looks fine in Safari.

Sound quality

[Prune]

With decent headphones (Etymotic ER-4) I find that the Zune shows a noticeably better sound quality than an iPod.

At the same time, I realize that it's probably unrelated to the reason that Obama is using a Zune, it's just an interesting coincidence.

Affixing "Gate" to idiotic subjects

[roguetrick]

Hey, I know you did it as a joke. The problem is, its not funny. This crap isn't funny on any level, meta or otherwise. The fact that so many people are actually talking about this idiotic news is beyond sad.

This crap isn't news, it isn't for nerds, and it doesn't matter.

Its bullshit for teenage girls, stuff that nobody gives a damn about.

Re:Affixing "Gate" to idiotic subjects

[danielsfca2]

Amen. Who the hell cares if he uses a Zune or uses Windows or whatever? News flash, a lot of people use Windows. Even a lot of people use Zunes! It already came out that they don't even LET the president use email or a blackberry (OMG NOT AN IPHONE), so he probably won't be using computers much for the next 4 years.

HOW can anyone care about this crap?

I'm sure he asked a staffer to go get him an MP3 player and this is what the guy found at Best Buy or whatever. I'm sure somebody had a windows machine to load it up with tunes. Do you really think Obama-land is a Mac-only shop?? Is there even such a thing as a whole office without ONE windows box??

I would buy a Zune if I used a Windows machine on a regular enough basis to load it.

Maybe he just wants to watch the TVs in the gym?

[MHolmesIV]

Most gyms I've been to have a row of TV screens showing news networks (or sports), each broadcasting audio on a specific FM frequency. Last I checked, iPods don't have FM receivers. Zunes do.

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[DMUTPeregrine]

I have a Neuros 442, not an iPod, but it's a 40GB MP3 player, and I use 27GB of it for MP3s, and generally have 2-3GB of video on it (movies/TV shows.) I may not be using all 40GB, but having a 10GB buffer allows for growth. When it finally does get full I'll simply buy a bigger laptop hard drive and put it inside. That said, I'm not a typical user. As for the iPod, the scrolling method it has is far superior to what I have. I like several of the UI features of the iPod. That said, I dislike several other limitations, & will probably buy an archos for my next player.

I'm not afraid to say it

[blue l0g1c]

I want to know what kind of mp3 player Obama uses. I also would like to know why he chose the Zune in this instance.

This isn't Paris Hilton. I actually give a shit about the personal life of our president-to-be. Any insight into what kind of "person" he is that could be extrapolated to what kind of president he'll be...is interesting.

One of the reasons I didn't vote for McCain was because he demonstrated that he didn't know jack-shit about computers. The subject of Net-Neutrality is looming on the horizon (and frequently discussed here) and I want my president to have an interest. Obama's Facebook and MySpace campaigns impressed me. I hardly think this story is irrelevant.

I mean, 400+ people commented on the story. Even discounting the whiners, it obviously sparked discussion which is why I come to Slashdot.

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[FLEB]

Although I don't believe they really match up in the storage-capacity department, the SanDisk Sansa e200-series, Rockboxed, I use has most of that covered. It's an 8GB device with a MicroSD slot, which is nice for quick swaps of expandable storage-- the card fully slots securely into the device, stays put, and adds nothing at all to the form factor. The device itself is similar to the "function-factor" of the nano, with a video/nav screen at the top, a thumbwheel for menu nav and volume, a center "select" button, play/stop/forward/back buttons in a ring around that.

I'm not sure about the playlist ability on the stock firmware, but the Rockbox firmware (check the support on that before you buy) has pretty good support for playlists, including build-on-the-fly and uploading properly-formed .pls files (properly-formed, meaning no absolute paths) to the unit.

You can listen to and record FM radio, and it has a passable-quality voice recorder (although no line-in recording like the iRiver).

From the technical and hackability angle, it has a very hard-to-brick firmware (it has a recovery mode that allows the firmware-update partition to be mounted as a USB device, and even has a lower-level recovery option beyond that), and the battery is, AFAIK, user-serviceable.

The biggest downsides I've seen are...

- The sync/charge cable is non-standard, and finding an immediate replacement is difficult and costly. However, the $5 Amazon off-brand cable did the trick quite well. I just had to wait for the package to arrive.

- A screen protector is a must.

- It's a little less durable and "top shelf" than you describe the Nano as being. The paint on the on-off button, for instance, has started to wear, and I've dropped it and chipped a corner.

The Sansas (generally refurb) are a common item on Woot.com. I picked up the 8GB model for about $70 or so.

kill yourself?

[gillbates]

If someone takes you seriously, there will be a federal prosecutor looking for you. Just ask Lori Drew.

Educate him

[HermMunster]

Time to educate him on the incredibly bad effect Microsoft has had on the industry. Time to get him off Microsoft's products altogether.

Rich, delicious irony

[Valdrax]

What does it matter if he's an apple or windows guy? It's not linux, so why does it matter?

The irony of these two sentences back to back is so deliciously rich.
Stupid Apple fanboys -- why won't people praise Linux more!?

Gonna hate the next 4-8 years then.

[Valdrax]

I can't believe that some people care more about which MP3 player he uses than what policies he's going to implement.

We're gonna have a Presidency where the NYT & WSJ crowd are finally crushing over the same person as the People and ET crowd. Whee! The line between political muckraking and celebrity gossip has just vanished!

Re:Huh?

[Valdrax]

- Euthanasia is illegal (Points: 1)

Legal by statue in Oregon for several years and in Washington as of this past election.
Recently legal by court decree in Montana as of this week but not yet reviewed by the state's Supreme Court.

And if he's personally seen people "enjoy" their rights to euthanasia and abortion, he's got some pretty sick hobbies.

Here's why it's such a big deal

[SpacePunk]

Every time an important figure uses a Zune, Steve Jobs sheds another tear.

It's a practical title

[snowwrestler]

The U.S. has the largest economy and most powerful military on the planet. Let's just say that the U.S. president's decisions are a lot more likely to affect the Dutch population, than the decisions of the Dutch prime minister are to affect the U.S. population. Ditto for almost every nation on earth.

They're Overrated Anyway

[gevantry]

So what. The Zune and the iPod are overrated and overpriced. So Obama should maybe start using an off brand. It will no doubt be just as good. I speak as someone who has two iPods and an iPhone.

News?!

[jandersen]

How can this be news? Or even an issue for any but the most braindead of the gossip magazine crowd?

It's only a gadget, and he probably doesn't really care whether it is one or the other. That is in fact the kind of sentiment we should hope for in a president: that he is pragmatic enough to use whichever tool is at hand. Ot doesn't matter one bit whether he uses an iPod, wears an Armani suit, or indeed which deodorant he uses. Is he doing a good job? That's what I want to know, and I think that ought to be the important issue for everybody, whether they are Democrats, Republicans or something entirely different.

Leader Of The Free World???

[master_p]

Where and when did I (not a US citizen) vote for Obama to be my leader???

That's the attitude that makes people angry around the world against USA. Obama is the US president, not the leader of the world, and the world is not separated into free and not free parts (whoever believes he is more free in USA than in other countries, you are deluded)...

Zune on the Mac

[ggendel]

Nice Flame-bait piece. However, the technical issue of using a Zune on Mac OS/X is a LOT easier than specified. I can't believe that they didn't recognize the SongBird 1.0 release runs on Mac and interfaces with Zune.

All of this brings up some important questions...

[Carik]

...such as: "if everyone here is so excited about privacy issues, why are we spending our time debating what hardware someone uses in their private life?"

Also, "who the heck CARES what music player he uses? He's presumably happy with it, so why should it matter to anyone else?"

Srsly?

[TUOggy]

I must say, I can't believe that this even made it to /.

I come here to read about science, technology, and random interesting things. I don't come here to read about what celebrity uses what product. I may get modded down for saying this, but I'm rather irritated that I even wasted my time seeing this article and posting this comment.

Give me stuff that matters. Not this fluff that's not even suitable for all those crummy entertainment/rumor sites and magazines...

Re:Wrong.

[BlackSnake112]

Many of those el-cheapo players support everything in Rockbox. Additionally, as another poster said, RockBox works only for the old (large) iPods. Who buys those bricks today?

I know quite a few people who bought the 60GB and 80GB ipods for music and videos. The small ones (at the time) didn't have the screen to watch a video in the car (if not driving) or train. Also I use the 60GB one I got back in 2005 as a big USB stick. Until recently it was the biggest USB stick on the market. Expensive, but it works for what I need it for.

I just wish every apple update for it would fix it rather then break it. Each update has caused me to reset it more often. I am up to twice a week now.

Leader of the *Free* world?

[Iowan41]

Not once he's inaugurated.. . .

Story was corrected. It was an iPod.

[Viewsonic]

So why is this still making news?

Re:Story was corrected. It was an iPod.

[argent]

URL?

Mod this up, please. It was actually an iPod.

[Viewsonic]

Story was corrected the same day it was released. He uses an iPod, what the guy saw was an iPod, not a Zune. The original headlines have all been corrected since then.

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Uberbah]

Usability. The click-wheel is awesome but at the same time it's fairly hard to operate the player without looking (e.g. inside a pocket).

Maybe if you had your thumbs amputated.

Playlists. So I have this fancy scroll-wheel navigation but am not allowed to create playlists on the player? What were they thinking?

Um, you can. Press and hold the center button over the song you want to add to an on-the-go playlist.

No raw directory structure.

You can sort by artist, genre, song, playlist, podcast...how much more structure do you need?

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Kent Recal]

Well, thanks for providing the obligatory fanboy reply...

No, the clickwheel is still annoying to operate inside a pocket, especially in tight pockets, even when both thumbs are fully functional.
The On-The-Go Playlist is a cheap excuse and you know it. Or how do I start a second playlist again?
And about structure: I'll take my personal directory structure over tag soup any day, thanks. At least until I find a player that lets me create playlists directly on the device...

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Uberbah]

Here's where I call you a fanboy to cover up my lame inadequacies and ignore reality...

Fixed that for you.

No, the clickwheel is still annoying to operate inside a pocket, especially in tight pockets, even when both thumbs are fully functional.

Uh, no. The screen is on the top of the device, with the clickwheel at the bottom. Once know which side is up (a .0002 second operation for a non-putz), you have up (menu), down (pause), left (back), right (next) and center (select). If that's too hard for you, you should give up any hope of using an mp3 player, driving a car, or getting laid.

Or how do I start a second playlist again?

Uh, you go to your on-the-go playlist and make a new one. Does mental retardation run in your family?

And about structure: I'll take my personal directory structure over tag soup any day, thanks.

A distinction without a difference. The aforementioned playlist, artist, genre, podcast already covers every possible way to organize your music, the only problem is you wouldn't have an excuse to engage in rhetorical masturbation over it. And given how disable your hands are, that could take a very long time.

Because he likes the color?

[A New Normalcy]

I saw one at my gym. Once.

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Kent Recal]

Don't worry, many boys your age have similar temper problems. It'll get better with time.
Just don't carry that tone into conversations with adults in the real world.

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[Uberbah]

More translation: put on airs of moral superiority and declare victory. Maybe that will work for you too, someday.

Mod parent up (please)

[MmmmAqua]

Why do I never have mod points when I read a post that's well thought-out and clearly explained? Mod parent up!

Nothing About the Zune, Please Help

[G-Dizzle Firefly]

Hello, I am a senior at a School in Vermont. We are required to write a paper for our 2008 Elections Class and I chose to do mine on Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy. I have done some research but was hoping you could answer a few questions for me as well. First off, I would like to know, in your words, what the 50 State Strategy really is? I would also like to know where this idea came from? Finally I would like to know, how you think this strategy affected the 2008 Election and if you think Barack Obama could have won with out it. Hopefully someone out there can help me soon and respond with some good information, Thank You.

Obama Zune

[dmooresatx]

Hey, I'll bet he has enough income to afford both a Mac and a PC as well as an iPod and a Zune!

Then again, Pres. G.W. Bush is known to be...

[walter_f]

... an iPod user.

(If you want, change this to "an iPod owner", just to be safe of overestimating what Bush can do without special assistance. Riding a bicycle lacking support wheels isn't one of his strenghts, you know.)

Re:Preaching to the Choir?

[tm2b]

Playlists. So I have this fancy scroll-wheel navigation but am not allowed to create playlists on the player? What were they thinking?

You can, check out On-the-go playlists.