Slashdot Mirror
Student Faces Suspension For Spamming Profs
edmicman sends word of a Fox News report about a Michigan State University student who is facing suspension for bulk emailing a number of professors at the university about a proposed change to the school calendar — an e-mail that the university is labeling spam. The article contains links to a copy of the original email, the allegations against the student, and the university's Email Acceptable Use Policy. The student, Kara Spencer, asked a Philadelphia rights organization, FIRE, to get involved. The article quotes the FIRE defense program director: "The fact that MSU is considering punishment of Spencer simply for exercising her right to contact selected faculty members by e-mail shows a disturbing disregard for students' freedom of expression. ... Threatening a member of the student government with suspension for sending relevant, timely e-mails to faculty members is outrageous." Spencer is awaiting the school's judgement after a hearing, and vows to take to the courts if suspended.
Clearly, the solution is to mass mail all students at the university for support.
Back in the day on Usenet, spam was more than just 'unsolicited commercial e-mail', it was pretty much any post that was cross-posted and off-topic.
So why do so many of us nowadays seem to equate spam with only 'unsolicited commercial e-mail'? In my mind, spam is any piece of unwanted bulk mail, whether it is 'commercial' in nature or not.
My blog
A common trait of spam messages is the horrible spelling and grammar contained therein. The typical spam message is rife with so many errors that it makes the average AC look like a literary titan.
The irony of it is if it got flagged as spam due to these errors, then perhaps that too is the fault of the University.
Sock Puppets: damn_registrars=pudge_confirmer=jimmy_slimmy=raiigunner=cml4524=a_klavan=red4men=ronpaulisanidiot
it's linked in the news article. It was well written, not off topic, and expressed a reasonable concern about the time period students have to get to know the school apparently. It was not "spam" at all.
It sounds like the professors are more butthurt she got their email addresses than interested in responding to the concern she expressed.
They simply should have redirected her appeal to the right people if it was not appropriate to be sent via that email list. Instead they are being punative.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
this is sorta spam. so am i on-topic?
FIRST.
I like to sign my instructors up for SPAM, but whatever works.
Because it means that we'll finally have an exact legal threshold in terms of number of recipients for an email to be considered spam, regardless of the contents or intent of the email. Zero tolerance policies are a really good idea, because they allow us to deal with violations--now matter how minor--in a uniform manner, and don't permit bureaucrats to allow things like reasonableness or circumstances to muddy the issue.
...anything they don't like they describe as a misconduct and levy the "appropriate" discipline without any chance of discussion.
"I am the only student to ever be charged or brought to the judiciary and charged with violating the university's Network Acceptable Use Policy, and that raises questions for me. I can't imagine that this is the test case for the university given the vast amount of file sharing and hacking that goes on around campus," Spencer said.
Is she really the _only_ one to be charged? Does she have documented proof of this? I guarantee someone has gotten in trouble in the past or else they have upstanding students or piss poor admins.
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
I mean, without such emails how are the professors to know that their penises are too small?
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
or does anyone else think that universities are treating students more and more like cattle these days? It's as if the concept of helping students goes flying out the window after the university takes their money.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
I read the linked pdfs and arguments. There doesn't seem to be anything that makes the case something other than spam.
She sent what amounted to a form letter to 391 professors. I certainly don't consider this spam. Given the lazy, unthoughtful way she went about this, I also don't consider this anything more than a waste of everbody's time. Sending what amounts to a bulk form letter via email isn't going to influence anyone.
Beyond that, I think it's more problematic that she apparently refuses to comply with university policies once notified about them. Her position basically is "I intend to continue sending out poorly thought out, ineffectual bulk messages to all faculty whenever I see fit." In that context, maybe it does become spam...
#DeleteChrome
Her message was fine. Composed well. Before RTFA I thought it was a whiney cry "OMG th3y r taking away our partayzzz timez" but in reality her letter was fine
Some prof was concerned how a student got her WORK e-mail address??? Geez at the universities I went to (2 of them) a professors email was their first initial, last name and the school address after the @ symbol. You could also go to each departments website and get a picture, email, phone and office address for the professor.
This is silly, and the school needs to grow up. This does not fall under the realm of spam. The message was written and targetted to professors on an issue that affects professors and students. It would be like me complaining that my bank sent me a letter, via e-mail, informing me that my statement date was changing. The info is relevant to me - it wouldn't be spam. The info is relevant to the professors - it is not spam.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
She's going to be fine. The administrator who let that e-mail go through the list-serv is losing his job though.
The crux of the issue is of course what you mean by spam. The best definition I've seen is: bulk, unsolicated commercial communications. (Due I think to Brad Templeton.) In this particular case the commercial aspect is missing, so this is not spam. This tendency to label of anything you don't like as either "spam" or "terrorism" is getting pretty tiresome.
If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
When I was in college, a little-known feature of the mainframe system allowed anyone with an MVS account (every CS major and anyone who took a CS class) to send a bulk instant message to everyone on campus.
Astonishingly, this had the effect of shutting down all administrative offices, from payroll to the registrar to the financial aid office. This was because all the line printers had accounts too, and would choke on an improperly formatted input. Anyone with an account could do this. Of course it would be tied to your name, so in theory you'd want to use someone else's account.
About every couple years a student would learn about the feature and innocently TELL EVERYONE HI without realizing that they were about to enter a dimension consisting entirely of pain. I do not think that even this transgression would result in a suspension---the chair might have you murdered, but no suspension.
So this went to what, a few hundred people, who at least were vaguely connected to the issue, and they simply deleted it? Where's the impact here, vs. 10,000,000 p3n15 emails with links to malware sites?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I don't understand the free speech thing. No, it's not SPAM. Whether or not she actually abused the policy is up for someone else to decide, not me. But what is all this talk about free speech? Since when does freedom of speech mean you can break a the rules you agreed (I assume you have to agree to abide by them in order to be accepted into the school) to follow?
If she actually broke the policy, then the agreed-to consequences for it should happen. If she didn't, the school is being stupid, and the SCHOOL should face consequences. But this doesn't have to do with "freedom of speech."
It is legally much easier to regulate commercial speech. If you want any sort of anti-spam law, your best bet is there.
Keep your laws and rules off my interwebz!!! The growing pains that are apparent on the internet will eventually be solved with technical solutions without the need of those without experience managing networks creating new rules and regulations.
"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
Is spam any unsolicited commercial email sent out to 20 or more recipients? If so, this is not spam.
Is spam any unsolicited advertorial email sent out to more than 1 person? If so, this is not spam.
Is spam any unsolicited email sent to more than 1 person? If so, this is spam.
The problem here is we need a legal definition of spam to define what it is. Then once the public knows what spam is, we can prosecute those who send it illegally, and stop wasting our damn time arguing what it is. Personally, I like the definition of any unsolicited email sent to more than 20 people...regardless of the content.
>So why do so many of us nowadays seem to equate spam with >only 'unsolicited commercial e-mail'? In my mind, spam is any >piece of unwanted bulk mail, whether it is 'commercial' in nature or not. If I, a student at a university, desire to send an email to all faculty and staff at that university concerning university policy, this should not be considered spam, whether the recipients wanted to receive it or not.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I don't really think it's fair to call this a free speech issue. There are laws against spam in many countries, and we don't call that an attack on free speech. So the only real question here is whether or not what she did was actually considered spamming. From MSU's policy on bulk emailing (linked to in article): "Bulk e-mailing may be used only by University offices to send communications necessary to the normal course of business and which typically require some official action be taken individually by recipients." Since part of the proposal Spencer was speaking against involved shortening the fall semester by two days, I guess that sort of qualifies. However, the policy also says: "Bulk e-mailing may not be used for personal purposes, advertising or solicitations, or political statements or purposes." I think had she simply sent out an email informing faculty of the changes, it would be fine. But the purpose of the email was to solicit support. It's all a little fuzzy, but I think that with a little thought, there isn't much question that her email did violate MSU's terms of use. Profs, especially ones with large classes, have to deal with tonnes of email. I'd probably be annoyed to if someone had harvested my address off a database or website intended to be use for academic purposes, and started sending me mass emails about general student issues.
I was a part-time student worker at my university, doing IT work. One time I saw an email come through that had thousands of students and faculty visible in the To/CC fields. I thought, oh man, whomever sent that is going to be red-faced soon.
-- http://ninthagenda.com/
Ok, scratch that, I missed the sarcasm in the GP.
"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
Mass mailing 391 professors? How about mass mailing 7000 students with everyone CC'ed. The whole email system was down quickly as every new 'reply-to-all' response spawned a new 7Mb mail to 7000 recipients.
And all this for the secretary to get extra votes for a 'prettiest baby' contest...
I was on her side until I saw the email read like political form letter. Yeesh! People really write like that? I thought those were all computer generated or composed by captive serial killers deep in secret prison sub-basements.
The university really has no choice, in my opinion, but to hang her.
Whoosh ...
Please enable your sarcasm detector.
http://lct.msu.edu/guidelines-policies/bulkemail.html
It's not like it's hard to find or follow.
Unfortunately what we're seeing here is how student government office holders are typically official powerless figureheads meant to keep a lid on direct student action and unrest.
The MSU Bulk E-Mail policy allows for emailing "information regarding changes of University policies or procedures" but the privilege of exercising these speech rights is reserved to "only by University offices". Student governments are typically not an official university office and have no rights under any of the policies which exempt the first year teaching assistant.
Even worse, students are officially customers of the university yet constrained by draconian state laws which constrain their behavior as if they were minors in the care of the state and every university staff or faculty member were their guardians.
I encourage students everywhere to encourage their universities to adopt a "grown-up" student government policy where student office holders are official employees of the state and actually represent the interests of their constituents / the university's customers. Vote with your (or your parent's) dollars: attend schools which respect their customer's rights!
If a "network administrator" told me I could not email all the faculty and staff at a university I was paying to attend concerning a change in university policy that affects everyone, I'd tell them to go piss up a rope, too.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Since when has fox news been worthy of slashdotting?
I read it and I have mixed feelings because of the possible precedent as much as anything. If she'd sent it to 10,000 professors instead of 391, would it be any different? What if she started sending emails about every other matter that concerned her? Especially if the university and people in it have a culture of not bulk-emailing staff, I might be quite annoyed by this if I was a professor who received it.
I think what it may come down to is whether the university is acting consistently with how they've acted in the past, or if they're just coming down on her because she's sending emails about something that's contradictory to what they want.
School policy explicitly prohibited using mass mailers for personal or political reasons.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
There is no right to email.
She signed the acceptable use policy, and then did things that she was specifically told not to do.
She fails. She should be punished according to the guidelines set forth in the policy. Likely, this includes suspension/removal of her email accounts and privileges and a suspension. It could also include complete removal of access to the campus network if they wanted to be dicks.
Her email is about the fall welcome week. This is the week/few days you get between when the campus opens up (and freshman enter the dorms) and when classes start. The university (like many others) has proposed changes to shorten the week.
As a member of the student government, this girl most likely lives on campus (in the dorms), or is shilling for people that do. The real issue here is that the kiddies want more time to go out and party before classes start. They don't want to get to know the campus, they don't want to get to know the community. They want booze and drugs and sex, especially the freshman, many of whom will be living away from their parents for the first time.
College. The same drama from the same annoying kids. Grow up.
We here at the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) appreciate the widespread interest in Kara Spencer's case. I would encourage everyone to check out another article on this case over at The Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/its-raining-spam-at-michi_b_149378.html There is also a podcast interview with Kara Spencer on our website that might be of interest to some of you who wanted more details of the case: http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/10008.html
..and nowhere did I see the process by which a user could submit mail to be sent to faculty/staff, NOR did I read anywhere that a student could not do as the student did. Perhaps it's in the student handbook, but in an age where HR is trying to make everything digital, you'd think those policies would be listed. Even a cursory glance through MSU's IT page didn't shed any light on the policy.
Phail
>Given the lazy, unthoughtful way she went about this, I also don't consider this anything >more than a waste of everbody's time. Sending what amounts to a bulk form letter via email isn't going to influence anyone. I read the email from TFA. It was thoughtfully and carefully worded, polite, and articulate. It was a professional email concerning a policy change that would affect all faculty and students. It was quite appropriate. It MAY BE a waste of time, but only because of the apathy of the people she informed about the policy change, not because she was wrong in her message or even how she went about it.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
ATS (Academic Technology Services) at MSU may have policies, such as approving bulk emails, and as such, once the student representative became aware of procedures necessary to approve a large emailing, she should not continue to claim ignorance, but ask what she needs to do at this point. ATS needs to better define spam on their part. The email is well constructed and is legitimately asking for an opinion to whether or not the academic calendar should be changed. This is an issue that affects students, staff and the surrounding community. MSU has overreacted to this incident, and as I understand it the general reaction from staff was positive and an inquiry for more information on the issue.
TechWolfy A_A o O U
Kind of a grey area here. Although this could be considered "political", its is also her duty per her position with student council. Seems like a case that would set precedent for this university.
"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
>Unless there are policies that say that this isn't allowed. The University has policies for distributing information, and this person ignored those policies.
Well no shit, sherlock. Of course the University is going to try and control the flow of information concerning unpopular policy changes.
Such attempts at control SHOULD BE ignored and thwarted.
The university was trying to pull a fast policy change. This girl alerted everyone to it using the most efficient, straight-forward technique available. I don't care if the university "has policies" for damage contro....er for distributing information. What she did was right.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
It seems like you can try to get away with anything these days by citing free speech violations. No-one doubts her right to say the things she said, they seemed logical, to the point, and valid. The university is taking issue with the WAY she said them, not WHAT she said. Should all spammers be let off the hook, if they have a right to free speech? The FIRE organization should rethink their defense of the person, instead figure out why she refused to comply with the policies of MSU, and hope to show that the university overreacted with their punitive actions.
Even so, there are more appropriate avenues (campus newspaper, bulletin boards, etc.) for that sort of speech. Mass-mailing professors was definitely not a smart idea.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
"Sentence" her to a severe punishment (loss of network priviledges for 1 semester) but don't enact on it.. Put her on probation. If she does it again.. punish.
Send out a clear message that this was unacceptable, and adjust the policy to make that clear (so there are no copy cats). But the case was a bit borderline, so I think suspension or expulsion is too harsh for the crime.
She should have been nicer to the net admin though.
Admittedly this is a different issue than the Spam we all know and love. As it is relevant to university interests and fails certanily the "commercial" aspect of the unsolicited commercial email challenge. One can argue that it is solicited as well as professors may implicitly agree to receive email from anyone in the university on a potentially relevant matter to them, such as the time the students get to know the university before they face the professors.
However it is disruptive and annoying like most Spam. Especially if done en masse. The student needed to consider the ethical and moral issues behind what she did and failed to do so.
Maybe the answer to this is to just refrain from any tangible punishment by the university. Chances are this student will now be embarassed in front of many of these professors and will get ostracized accordingly. Would you want to take a class from a professor who's inbox you've been disrupting after all? Let this student just suffer her own punishment from society now.
...in bed
It troubles me that his action is taken when the email didn't originate from a campus account- it came from her Gmail account. I might have missed it in the complaint, but if she didn't send it from a computer on the university's network, and didn't use a university address to mail it, aren't they completely wrong?
. . . I receive absolute *zero* external spam. Our IT department seems to be top notch at that.
All the spam I receive is from internal sources. Some you can "op-out" on. Some you can't. I block those. But it sometimes seems to be a hopeless "Whack-A-Mole" game, as soon as I block one, someone else turns up.
If these folks were forced to justify spamming the whole damn company, maybe I would get less company internal spam.
Unfortunately, there probably is an process for this already, and all these spammers have justified their spamming.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The MSU Bulk E-Mail policy allows for emailing "information regarding changes of University policies or procedures" but the privilege of exercising these speech rights is reserved to "only by University offices". Student governments are typically not an official university office and have no rights under any of the policies which exempt the first year teaching assistant.
She wasn't even sending "information regarding changes of University policies or procedures". She was sending her personal opinion as to why the official University decision was bad, and it's not surprising that it got her in trouble. That's what campus newspapers, bulletin boards, etc. are for... you don't just bulk mail it to the professors.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
She might get suspended in University? What does that entail? If she lives on campus would she have to leave for the suspension?
I'm really sick of replies like this:
Civil disobedience is fine, IMO. Have at it, but don't come blubbering when Mr. Consequence arrives to the party.
This is a canned comment that tools make on any given story about someone standing up to establishment stupidity. This is the same attitude that southerners commonly took towards blacks protesting fucked up laws. Now, I'm not saying that her cause is anywhere near the same level of fighting jim crow and southern racism in general, BUT, if you look at how civil disobediance in the south(and elsewhere) actually works, you'll see that the "blubbering" about the consquences IS PART OF IT. THAT'S HOW CHANGE IS ACHIEVED AGAINST STUPID POLICIES.
You have to not only disobey stupid policies, but then you have to whine bitch and moan about the consequences it if you want them changed and if you want a just resolution. THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS OF CIVIL DISOBEDIANCE. You don't do that last part, you end up a door mat of the system, rather than someone who forces it to change.
This happens when the college hires too many dumb IT people, who have a stick up their ass.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bofh/
It may have been more appropriate to go that route, but I still see no reason to suspend a student without a history of issues for this one email. I don't understand how this could have caused such as huge problem that warrants this result. Sounds to me like some asshole flexing his muscles to create some news.
"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." Hayek
I'm a grad student at a university with about 15,000 students, maybe 2,500 professors, and quite a large staff. Committees, clubs, SGA, faculty senate, advisers, et cetera, at my school all send out mass emails, as do individuals associated with almost every organization and department on campus. I probably delete twenty such emails every day. It seems to me (I read the article) that the university in this case is abusing their policies to take unnecessary punitive action against this student.
Here is the email information for the Prof that was upset for getting the email.
Katherine L. Gross
Professor
kgross@msu.edu
(W.K. Kellogg Biological Station, MSU)
FYI ;-)
Just in case she likes different kinds of emails instead.
I think the question may be did she find each professors email address and type them in individually, or did she use a listserv that she had access to as being part of the student government and use it to send out her own personal thoughts. I can see problems with individuals using university property for their own personal use and refusing to stop.
Now that I've posted, my kingdom for a change in Slashdot post/no mod rules :)
That speaks directly to my point. She isn't just some outspoken brat... she is an elected student representative who has been given no power to actually accomplish the goals of her office.
It seems she clearly ignored the policies on sending out mass emails to the faculty. She even stated that she would not discontinue her actions.
She is clearly fighting a political fight of protest where her entire intent is to get as many eyeballs on her grievance as possible.
It isn't so much as an issue of free speech. She isn't being censored for her opinions. She is being reprimanded for a breach of use in computer systems. What she has done quite successfully is gotten a much larger audience on the original issue than would care otherwise.
The MSU Student newspaper has a more interesting take on this then the Fox News one. It looks more like she pissed someone off something horrible.
From the State News:
"Of the 391 e-mails Spencer sent, Spencer said she didn't receive any negative responses. All responses asked for more information regarding Provost Kim Wilcox's Welcome Week proposal."
"Dr. Katherine Gross, director of the Kellogg Biological Station, initially approached ATS in September with concerns as to how Spencer had e-mailed what she believed was the deans, directors and chairs list. Hall said that response led to ATS approaching Spencer."
Such a blatant abuse of a student would not happen at the University of Michigan, I'm sure!
Your anecdotal example is irrelevant unless it's also typical of Michigan State U. "Everyone else breaks the policy too" is some semblance of a defence; "school X doesn't have this policy" isn't.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
You're right!
For centuries everyone knew what "marriage" meant, and what it didn't mean.
For centuries everyone knew marriage was simply a union between 2 people.
Then bigots twisted the meaning of the word to prevent people who love each other from getting married!
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/1998/0811/98081100088.html
Look to history! The church used to give their blessing to gays!
Now to point out that this is way way way off topic and we should both be modded down to get this drivel off the page.
i get mass emails from students all the time at my school, i just IP relay spam their cell phones and sign their emails up for weather updates every 5 min.
Hard to say what really happened but I think it is safe for us all to jump to wild conclusions.
I bet the student newspaper would have been happy to run a column by a student council member.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
It may have been more appropriate to go that route, but I still see no reason to suspend a student without a history of issues for this one email.
Well, she sort of demanded they take action when she told them she'd continue the behavior after they told her to stop.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Is this an intentional troll? Some words in the english language have changed over time. If you dislike it, I'm sorry. But, if you just disagree, then you would be wrong.
Complaining about gay marriage, is pretty far off topic here. Screaming 1984, hah, you might as well a say "hitler did that too" for all the lack of anything interesting you have to say.
And your final sentence shows how much you just don't get it. English, unlike some other languages, has no governing body which dictates what words exist in it, and what words mean exactly. While it makes it kind of existential, I would rather have it that way than have a government body telling me what they mean. In fact, I bet you do too. New words come and go ESPECIALLY slang and words relating to new commerce and trademarks.
Or, do you really wish that spam email had to include descriptions or pictures of precooked ham ( made common around WW2 I believe )?
1) Was the mailing unsolicited?
2) Was the mailing made to a set of people, whose individual identities [ie: not simply their being in that set] were unimportant to the main content of the message?
3) Is the message intended to encourage the recipient to do something? (including non-tangible things such as having a certain opinion)
Congratulations! It's spam.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
+1, Unintentionally Ironic
Newspeak was the faceless government's language. They controlled the meaning of words in such an arbitrary way that they could be used to mean the exact opposite of their original meanings. They controlled the meaning of the words to suit their agenda.
Now, under the guise of arguing against it, you are advocating for that same system of control to suit your own agenda. You want "marriage" to mean what you want it to mean to suit your agenda.
AFAICT from TFA, none of the professors who received the email had a problem with it, several emailed her back asking for more information. It seems to be one particular person (the director of IT) that is getting his underpants in a knot because it didn't go through his list server and thus his authority.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Couldn't have put it better than HungryHobo, though I'd be perfectly content to let people debate the meaning of "marriage" -- provided we remove it from the law.
The current "debate" shifts between legal, semantic, and religious issues so fast you get mental whiplash if you're paying attention. Just call it a "civil union" in the law, and let people define "marriage" however they like.
Actually, I was replying for another reason:
Maybe we should not let words be quite so "fluid". After all, he who controls the definitions of the words controls society itself.
In this case, it's the masses who control the definitions of words -- particularly slang like "spam".
And since it's the masses that constitute "society itself", I don't see what your point is.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Whatever her opinion on the matter was, she WAS emailing the faculty about a change in university policy that affects everyone.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
>It wasn't the right avenue to make her dissent known via, and when she was informed of this fact she apparently didn't care.
I'm sure _the_university_ didn't think it was the right avenue, but you know what? I wouldn't care, either. "The University" isn't going to like anyone doing an end-around on their policy decisions. Tough shit. More power to her.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
If the professor that reported her thought receiving one bulk email from a student was bad, wait til she feels the wrath of /.
Tell Katherine Gross how you feel about SPAM
grossk@kbs.msu.edu
The U.S.A. is going to shit. Period, end of sentence. This "zero tolerance" "get tough on [insert noun/verb]" is rediculous.
This has NEVER been a nation of laws and rules, this has historically been a nation of rule breakers.
We have all lost a sense of proportion and reason. Everyone wants everyone else screwed to the wall for the merest infraction. Everyone has become selfish and can no longer tolerate anyone else's exercise of their freedoms if it means the slightest inconvenience or offense.
Sorry everyone, this is not America. The U.S.A. of my youth was an in-your-face nation that depended on strength and a thick skin. Now the crybabies want a nice perfect little safe and oppressive police state.
People would rather feel save in a police state than enjoy the fruits of liberty and the risks that come with it.
Its a few fucking emails. Get the hell over it. Does anyone know what that suspension will cost this person in REAL dollars in tuition?
>Ok, but "ignored and thwarted" means now she'll have to win in court against
>clearly defined policies that prohibited what she did. When you're trying to
>beat the system, at least make sure you're able to win.
If the policies in place are immoral, the moral thing to do is challenge the policies. This is what she did.
And if you beat her down for this you know what will happen?
Next time the email will simply be sent anonymously.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
The compliant makes it sound like she was in a pissing contest with the network administrator. Not a good person to piss off if you want to send email.
How pissed off the sysadmin should be completely irrelevant to the situation. Yes, he can and should exercise some discretion in execution of policy, but it's either reasonable application of real policy or it's personal retaliation.
And If personal retaliation is the rule for disputes, then I'm sure some enterprising recipient is more than capable of thinking up some effective and fun ways of their own to play that game. Maybe this student is one of them.
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
So are laws banning grafitti unconstitutional too in the US because they restrict a person right to free speech? I did not realize that freedom of speech meant that you had the right to use other people's property in a way they have expressly asked you not to, in order to get your message across.
Did anyone notice she was *not* sending the emails from a University account, she was using GMAIL. So if I understand this correctly the University is taking the position that they can institute a policy on how student can use a non-university account.
I for one welcome our new university professor listserve overlords.
Since there are a lot of people jumping on the "this is a violation of free speech!" bandwagon, I'm taking the time to remind everyone what the first amendment says:
Public universities are not part of Congress.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
1. Prohibited uses. Bulk e-mailing may not be used for personal purposes, advertising or solicitations, or political statements or purposes.
2. Permitted uses for broad cross-University mailing. Bulk e-mailing may be used only by University offices to send communications necessary to the normal course of business and which typically require some official action be taken individually by recipients. Such permitted uses include:
a. Dissemination of urgent information of health and safety concern for students and University employees.
b. Communication of information regarding changes of University policies or procedures, or actions that affect employment or compensation status, or status as a student.
c. Regular communications (for example, to University employees) that are required by law, regulation or University policy for which bulk e-mail may largely replace paper transmittal.
Clearly the intended use was within school guidelines as the student's email is directly covered by exception 2(b) of the School's own bulk emailing policy.
Looks to me like the IT director got butt-hurt for being brushed off and now is flexing his e-peen.
400 messages is fairly small for a spam run these days, but it's definitely enough that it qualifies as "bulk".
Should she be suspended? No, I don't think so. It doesn't sound like she realized that 400 messages was unreasonable.
It's interesting to note how much the university's aup resembles most private ISP aups. They obviously didn't spend much time considering the difference between a publicly funded university network and a privately funded one. It would seem to me that there is a case to be made here for a much more lenient enforcement policy on issues like this in a publicly funded network. Of course that would be the reasonable thing and it doesn't sound like reason is being exercised here.
When I was a student at MSU in the late 90's, it was obvious that the university could care less about the students if you were not an athlete. The whole place is tailored towards athletics. Why spend money on student programs? Let's just build a gigantic athletic center with an indoor football field and a gigantic gym for the football players.
It has been 10 years now. I have not been back to campus once. And they have exactly zero chance of ever getting a penny out of me. You're just a number there.
Signed, A22793892.
"Spamming", as the term is often abused in this context, is hardly new or unique to the Internet, though prior to the Internet it was never considered so offensive or objectionable, to the point of it being a legal or criminal matter. Here's a thought experiment: if Kara Spencer had been going to MSU sixty years ago and this same set of cicumstances had arisen, how would she have gone about the process? I suspect you already know the answer:
Would that have been considered "spamming" sixty years ago and resulted in a threat of discipline against the perpetrator? I rather suspect not. It seems to me that in fact what she did was legitimate and warranted, and HOW she did it was highly efficient, with even less disruption of the larger academic process than her sixty-years-prior counterpart would have caused. And for that the university wants to punish her?
Isn't it funny how the same traditional behavior enacted in the Digital Age, with new tools that actually make the process more efficient and less disruptive, suddenly becomes unthinkable? We certainly are spoiled rotten, aren't we?
Borrowing prior art is the highest form of flattery.
"Hello, this is the RIAA. We have snail mailed every person in town accusing them of piracy. Please send $2740 to: Save The Newest Kids In Music Foundation. PO Box 90210. Las Profitas, CA.
P.S. If you don't comply we'll strand that busybody IAAL guy in every Non-NewYork city in alphabetical order according to our playlist, beginning with Boston and Chicago."
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
At first, I read that as "Save The New Kids Music Foundation", as in New Kids On The Block... I thought, "Even the RIAA can't be that cruel!"
-- "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
You got my joke.
I tried for a cross between "Think of the Kids" and the NKOTB.
However the RIAA is absolutely that cruel, because that's who gave them to us in the first place.
Their backup act is Hanson.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Many years ago there was an incident at the college I was attending where the administration searched a number of student rooms without permission. After getting caught various justifications were given for the search.
I was part of a group of concerned students who decided to write the ACLU and ask about the legality of the college's actions. We wrote the letter, but then decided it would look better if it was cosigned by the student council. Of course that brought the existence of letter out into the open.
After the letter was approved and before it was sent, I was summoned to the office of a chemistry professor, someone I had never had dealings with before. Once there, he proceeded to threaten me with expulsion if the letter was sent, claiming, if memory serves, that it would be some sort of honor code violation.
I responded by laughing at the guy and told him that the letter was going out and that if he took any sort of action against me I would sue his ass and the college's all the way from here to doomsday. He was struck dumb by my response - I don't think it had even occurred to him that he wouldn't get his way.
The letter did go out (and got the predictable response - the college's actions were clearly illegal). And I never heard a single word from this professor again. I still see him from time to time. I always smile and wave, but I don't think he recognizes me.
So what? You're getting paid for hitting that delete key.
As a fun project, why don't you keep track of how long it takes you to do that. Then write it up, make sure you multiply your wasted time by the number of people in the company to get the biggest possible number and send it off to the higher echelons as a recommendation to increase productivity. They might even take you seriously and give you a bonus!
I just got this spam email:
-------------
I am retiring, and want to offer up my contact list for sale. If you are starting a business or going to soon, I am sure this would be of some use to you. Shoot me an email if you are interested in the details; there are over 50,000 college email adresses.
Paul Lewis
Societyhelp@aol.com
-------------
Thus I am posting the email address to slashdot where it will get picked up by (perhaps his own) email address harvester and hopefully become useless. Also, feel free to send emails to this address pretending to be interested with the hope of wasting as much of his time as possible.
The best way to endear yourself to people who can help you is to:
A) Use the tools at your disposal (such as a totally legit list-serv you have access to)
B) Forget the tools and go on a moral crusade (such as skipping the list-serv and directly mass-mailing people whose help you need)
Seriously. This is why student government is a joke. Instead of making progress on the issue at hand, she *created* a new issue custom tailored to embarrass her faculty and administration. If you think for a second anyone in power on that campus is going to help her out at this point, you're crazy. They just have to wait 6 months until she's out of office, then ignore her for the rest of her life. The only reason they went through all the hearings and such is to keep her occupied.
I spent many years in student government and people like this pissed me off to no end. She's going to have jack-shit to show for her time in office. Because of a stupid and pointless holy war, she's monopolizing the student's voice. There could be kids being kicked out with immigration problems, being hit on by professors and I guarantee tuition is going up, but none of those issues will even be mentioned this year.
Great job! E-mail policy for student leadership is WAY more important than tuition, sexual harassment, deportation, curriculum, housing, drug use and any number of real issues.
Recent MSU student, confirming it is. MSU and the engineering department send out enough bullshit to make your inbox worthless as it is.
Before you mod me funny, think, perhaps I was insightfully funny?
This fails the spam smell test on many grounds, but mostly she already had an existing business relationship with the institution for which the email recipients were destined for.
I realize this is more about University policy than anything else, but for them to call it spam doesn't seem factually correct.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Her mistake was trying to get the professors on her side. Being a professor is a pretty sweet deal and they're not going to screw that up by fighting against a change, especially when that change is getting two more days off per semester. That change would only make their sweet deal even sweeter.
She needs to realize that the only way this college is ever going to care is if she and a few thousand other students leave. Until then she can scream at the top of her lungs all she wants but no one will ever listen. I don't want to argue about how some people seem to think that having (mostly) free speech is like a magical spell which will stop the evils of the world. But the sad truth is that even when we know the truth we don't do anything about it. College students are mostly trying to do as little as possible while still convincing their parents that they're working hard (I apologize to the flower generation and the 5% of you who aren't) so they're the worst kind of people to try to get riled up. Free speech is basically wasted on them. Bong hits 4 Jesus indeed.
Sadly the story reminds me of how my college went from 40 days a quarter to a more rational 48 day semester. I mean, why have a 120 day school year when you can have a 96 day one and charge more because semester sounds so much better. It's really win/win since everyone gets to spend less time in class.
As the student in question I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your comments. I would also like to invite you to ask questions. As is to be expected, there is much speculation and rumor floating about, along with a fair amount of misinformation.
For the record:
1) I never imagined that contacting a "handful" of academic faculty and staff about an issue of common concern would morph into something this ridiculous. As a non-traditional student (I'm 38) and the mother of a high school student who also attends MSU, my concern regarding this policy evolved from my involvement in University committees, ASMSU, and discussions with faculty and members (including business owners, local police, and neighborhood organizations). It became evident that many others in the campus community were unaware of the proposal and its potential impact.
2) Mr. Hall has grossly misrepresented our conversation particularly the statements he attributes to me. I neither demanded to be sent to judicial nor refused to stop sending the email. In fact, the last email I sent was several hours prior to my conversation with Mr. Hall, and no more have been sent since that conversation on September 16. What I did say to Mr. Hall was that given the interest in this issue it was unreasonable for him to expect that others would not continue to forward the email and that it would continue to be a topic of discussion whether I was the one sending the emails or not.
3) I was perfectly happy to believe that the university had dropped this issue. Nearly 7 weeks passed from the time that Mr. Hall and I spoke to the time that I was notified of charges by the university. I very quietly went on with my life . It was only after I received notification of the charges (Oct. 28) that I contacted outside sources for information and support. I continue to believe that this is a free speech issue. The university's policy is not content neutral, and that is a violation of the first amendment and should be questioned. I am the first student to be charged in the university judicial process for violating the AUP (the Office of Judicial Affairs publishes a table outlining the number of complaints received and the university policies cited in the complaints...none have the Network Acceptable Use Policy listed; and Mr. Hall stated in the hearing on Tuesday that this was the first case they had brought before the judicial board). I think this raises serious questions, and I believe those questions should be answered by the university.
I would be happy to provide further information to anyone who cares to know rather than to speculate as to my motives or intentions.
Again, I appreciate the postings. I have found them both interesting and informative.
If she'd only offer them some free tickets to win the online lottery, she wouldn't be in this mess.
but to say that the only valid judge of constitutionality is the courts is not only wrong
Isn't the supreme arbiter (per Marbury v. Madison[?]) of the Constitution the Supreme Court? i.e. if your case is Constitutionally ambiguous, the appellate courts will send it up and up until it reaches Washington?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
According to this Bulk E-mailing Guidelines, only the university offices are permitted to bulk mail changes to university policies or procedures. Not the students.
However, their definition for bulk mail is any message sent to up to 20--30 people (large committee or work group) within 2 days. I wonder if she can send her announcement to 28 people at a time in 14 batches, or 28 days, in order to evade the criteria for bulk mail.
Another way to spread her message faster is to e-mail department secretaries and ask them to forward her message to professors in the department. This way, in the first 4 days, she'll be able to contact 60 departments. If some departments agree to do her a favor, that should reduce the number of professors she has to e-mail individually and reduce the risk of being accused of bulk mailing.
Or ask 14 friends to each forward her message to 28 professors at the same time. I think the accusation for bulk mailing will be much more difficult to hold for 14 people at once, each does not violate MSU bulk e-mail policy individually.
I once had a signature.
So, this student spams (according to the article) 391 University Profs. How is that not spam? Oh wait, it is. Also, there are ways of making such complaints; there are always committees to deal with such things. Attempting to circumvent that system by bulk email, is arguably unethical (not to mention profoundly stupid).
So, this really isn't about a student using there right of free speech, as the defence claims. It's about the *abuse* of the system. Which hardly works in the students favour.
in the CAN-SPAM act.
Nice way of bringing that into the conversation!
Probably unintentional.
I thought on slashdot we wanted to horribly and slowly torture spammers to death, everyone here now seems to be defending her freedom of speech.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Send the prof that turned her in your thoughts
grossk@kbs.msu.edu
Gross, Katherine L
Email: kgross@kbs.msu.edu
Office: Kellogg Biological Station Ag. Nat. Res. Local: 269-671-2341
More Detail Icon Show Details
MSU is well known for this sort of bureaucracy. Usually they choose to confine their little wars inside their departments though.
brings back memories.
my college has/(had) a beloved area called "the jungle". one day, shortly after summer break began, all the trees were marked with little plastic bands.
copied the main server's user listing to a text file and appended @college.edu, and sent out notice that this beloved spot may be clear-cut before we all get back next fall.
students, alumni, and faculty were uninformed and angry. all of a sudden the plans for new dorms were made public. clearly a case of choosing to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. long story short, even though there was unused land directly adjacent to already-present campus housing, that area was deemed "unsafe" (read: too close to the poor people), and the jungle was halved.
i suppose i should be glad i didn't suffer retribution.
>Once faculty reports it, the IT department filters it out. Once her dickish
>move stops working, and her e-mail no longer even reaches the faculty
>and staff, she'll have to resort to doing it properly.
Or, she'll just do it anonymously next time.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.