Slashdot Mirror
School System Considers Jamming Students' Phones
An anonymous reader writes "The St. Ansgar, Iowa school system is considering buying cell-phone jamming equipment for up to $5000 if it is deemed legal. The use of the equipment would be suspended in the case of an emergency, but one has to wonder if they would be quick enough to shut it down should an emergency arise. 'A Federal Communications Commission notice issued in 2005 says the sale and use of transmitters that jam cellular or personal communications services is unlawful.'"
we didn't have cell phones. beepers were just starting to appear when i graduated high-school. we never had any problems alerting in the event of an emergency. we had fire alarms, PA system, and ye olde fashioned telephones in every classroom.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
Just use the structures themselves and make them like a Wal*Mart or Home Depot. I never get signal in those stores!
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I'll help them:
It isn't.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
But what happened to good ol' telling them not to use their mobiles, and if they -do- use it, apply punishment?
I obviously didn't RTA, but what a waste of money... (if not the possible consequences)
When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
...but one has to wonder if they would be quick enough to shut it down should an emergency arise.
Come a proper emergency, shutting down the scramblers will be the last thing on anyones mind. Bad idea is bad, whatever happened to just confiscating toys from disobedient children?
Better yet, contract out the job and have all non-registered phones blocked during school hours.
Only adults would be allowed to register phones.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
Is a school rule to turn off phones in class not sufficient? Why do they need to jam them?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
In most places, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no one can impede the function of a cellphone when it is calling emergency services. Hell, a 10-year-old cellphone with no service provider still has to be able to connect to 911 - many cities solicit old phones for use by women in domestic violence shelters as emergency phones for just this reason. If the jamming can be rigged to let 911 calls through, then this might be legal from that standpoint.
Whether the FCC allows such things overall, though, is quite another issue.
Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
In before completely unrealistic, hypothetical scenario involving an off-work doctor who is out on his unicycle, when someone gets their second cellphone stuck in their throat, and would have been saved if it hadn't been for the phone-jamming equipment in operation at a nearby school.
What kind? Blackberry?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
When a girls being raped in the changing rooms? Oh I can't dial 911 as my phones jammed, let me just ask the nearest teacher to go to the principal to find the technician to switch it off.
It'll take a failed emergency call to get the school sued...
It's unfortunate that teachers have ceased to be considered authority figures.
Why should they muck around with jamming when they can just confiscate the phones when they are being used in violation of school policy and then returned at the end of the day, as has been done for countless other disruptive devices (before the wussification of America and the rise of the helicopter parent)?
the school, the superindendent jim woodward, his phone number : 641-713-4681, his email jwoodward@st-ansgar.k12.ia.us, his office hours 7:45am to 4pm, and the next school board meeting is 08/10/2009 7:00 pm, the last meeting minutes discussing jamming of cell phones
The board discussed jamming cell phones during school hours. IASB does not have a legal opinion on it. Kleinwort moved duly 2nd by Shupe to spend up to $5,000 to jam cell phones during school hours for the 2009-10 school year. Ayes-Hatten, Hertel, Gordon, Stelpflug, Shupe, and Kleinwort. Nays-None.
plus how to get to the next meeting
Jamming cell phones is well and good, but what about when students start using other electronic devices without authorization? For just a little bit more they could build their own Goldeneye satellite, offering scalability, 99.9% downtimes, full IP integration, and more!
Are cell phones really that detrimental to classroom activities? I would imagine that if you took cell phones away from the "texters", they would simply find something else to distract them from the lesson. There is the argument that texting makes cheating easier; i'm sure they can figure out a way to stop cheaters without blocking all cell phone access at school.
GFA/M/S d-- s: a--- C++++ UBL++$ P+ L+++ !E- W++ N+ !o K- w--- !O !M !V PS++ PE Y+ PGP+ t+++ 5- X+ R tv@ b++ DI++++ D+ G
Sure, when the shooters are on a rampage, you'll remember to turn off the cell jammer. Plus what if one of your students is a first caller.
I hate cell phones in schools, but rules and enforcement took care of it fine when I was a student a decade ago.
Whatever happened with the classic scenario of the teacher saying: "If you don't put away that fucking cell phone during class, I'll confiscate it and you can get it after school again!" ??
These people obviously fail to see that social problems can't be solved with technology. They can be solved with education. (Ask a school, oh wait..).
And yes, it's illegal too..
For a school-wide or town-wide emergency, of course they'll shut off the jammer.
What if a student's parent (or a teacher's spouse) is being rushed to the hospital? They will need to ramp up the old-fashioned "call the school, let them track down the person" mechanism. Cell phones have made those days obsolete.
-Joe
Lose = not win
What problem is this going to solve. Are teachers taking calls during lessons? Are students texting each other exam questions?
You realize, of course, some lawyer is going to say 'How will a woman ring the police if there gangs of rapists that appear suddenly?'
First off - yes, this is very illegal which is why you don't see the use of active jamming equipment in the US. If they want to instead build a Faraday cage around the entire campus, this would be the "legal" - though prohibitively expensive - way of getting around the issue.
If in fact they attempt this, and staff or a student have a bona-fide medical emergency and are unable to summon emergency services, this district will then be tasked for paying for a home nurse to wipe the drool off of said victim's face for the rest of their lives.
You would think those who work in education would, you know, educate themselves on the relevant laws and ramifications of actions... nahhh, this is the US public school system we're talking about here.
If the phone is seen or heard anytime during school hours, it's taken away, and the parent can come claim it. Parents will get sick of having to do that pretty quick, and the students will learn what happens if they use them during school. In our school district, each school can make the specific rules regarding cell phones, and this is generally how they handle the issue. The best part is, the policy is free to implement and only affects a small minority of phones (the offenders) in an emergency situation.
It's a violation of FCC rules to use jamming devices. However, you can create a "faraday cage" in all the classrooms, using fine-meshed wire on windows and doors to prevent signals from getting in or out.
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
How about instead of investing in high tech, non-legal solutions, we go with the old fashioned solution to problems.
If an item is found to be distracting, that item will be confiscated for the rest of the class period (hour/block/day as appropriate) and/or the student using the distracting item will be sent to the office.
Way I figure, this rule should still apply to cell phones just as much as they did to papers being passed back in the day.
If cheating is the issue, then maybe the teacher should proctor in a more active manner (ie walking the aisles).
Removing the ability to use cell phones for anyone near/in the school is dangerous, irrisponsible and illegal.
How about actually -allowing- them and designing the curriculum around them? There are some things you can't fit in a text message, essays, critical thinking, etc. And those are the real skills that will actually matter. Similarly, in the real world, you do have access to the internet and any and all reference materials. The school system seems to be designed for 1950s level technology and advancement. Not 2009 which we live in. Collaboration, research and technology are a real part of the world. Contrary to popular belief in most jobs you don't get locked alone in a completely silent environment without internet, phones, etc. to do your job.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Of course that can cost millions of dollars for a school building. But I heard of a theater that put one in while it was constructing the building (it's a lot cheaper then).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
..there's a fire, or someone starts shooting a bunch of students and teachers.
'Cause you know, it'd be terrible for the students to be able to contact their parents in case of an emergency.
If you can't do it in prisons where phones are illegal to start with, what makes you possibly think that you could do it in a school, no matter how well justified the reasons for it may be?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
OK
A lot of people are saying things about the cost, but it probably wouldn't cost much.
A lot of people mention security, but there are obviously ways of doing this without making the school less secure than it would be with the pupils' phones off.
The question here is, why would they do this?! What do they think is the point of the no-phones rule? If students insist on breaking it, those same students are certainly not going to learn a lot more with more strict regulation. This, to me, is a classic example of people trying to find the best way to enforce a particular rule without really considering what is to be gained by that. The use of mobile phones is an effect of students misbehaving, not a cause.
--
Jamming cell phones is a slippery slope and I think we (as a society) would be just as well off to put a stop to this right here.
There is of course the fact that jamming a cell phone for almost any reason is quite illegal. But let's set that aside.
As has often been mentioned- the idea that the jammer would be shut off in an emergency is absurd. If there's a 'big' emergency nobody will remember to turn it off (assuming anybody knows how to), and for 'little' emergencies (as someone else said, girl getting raped in the locker room) this would create a serious problem. Plus which a jammer, being an RF emitter, doesn't immediately stop jamming when you walk thru the school doors. It will either be overpowered, and reduce or degrade service around the school, or underpowered leading to kids just sitting next to the window so their phones will work.
These problems arise anytime you talk about cell phone jamming, and there is no solution. Cell networks are encrypted, so you can't block only non-emergency calls. And no carrier is going to be the first one to step up and help block their customers, it's just not in anybody's best interest.
This is a societal problem, not a technical one, and it requires a societal fix. If people are yakking on their phone in the movie theater, the solution isn't a jammer, the solution is to get people to not be rude assholes.
As for the school, if they can't get kids to pay attention in class maybe the problem is that their lesson plan is boring and the teacher couldn't care less if the kids are interested or not. Or perhaps their problem is that the faculty doesn't demand student respect, so students ignore the rules.
As a previous poster said- just take away the phone or battery of any kid that is using it in class and give it back to him at the end of the day. If he does it again make his parent come in and get it.
Put simply, this school has a discipline problem and needs better teachers or better administration. It does not have a technical problem, so a technical solution won't help them.
--IronHelix
RF Shielding Paint http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
NaturalNano was supposed to be creating a paint for this as well, but I can't find it on their site now.
Oh I can't dial 911 as my phones jammed, let me just ask the nearest teacher to go to the principal to find the technician to switch it off.
Because of course most schools wouldn't have regular phones anywhere in the building. I'm sure that teacher that you found to go ask the principal wouldn't have been able to find a phone to dial from, either.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
For each violation a teacher can decide whether to let it slide or dismiss the student from the classroom. Miss enough classes and you fail the class. In college there is more leniency with letting you step out and take a call, but otherwise professors will still kick you out if you're disruptive or blatantly don't pay attention. Jamming the phones now just means professors have to play daycare more when the students haven't learned how to turn the things off.
I guess I sound somewhat "get off my lawn"-ish (I don't use my cellphone for much and rarely text), but if you aren't paying attention due to your cellphone you aren't benefitting from being in the classroom and you aren't helping anyone who may be distracted by you. And turning off your cellphone (or setting it to vibrate) at appropriate times is a common courtesy students should learn.
My webcomic
not jamming, but traffic shaping
something dramatically different than technologically that simply fills an rf frequency with white noise or pink noise. it could simply monitor all calls for geolocation by triangulation or gps and time code, overlaid with blueprints. geographically and temporally refined: let it be used outside, but not inside, 2 meters away, along a straight line. allow a phone to be used during lunch time in the cafeteria, but then not during study hall an hour later, all the while the library is completely verboten. etc., etc.
you could even trigger it so the moment someone makes a 911 call, anywhere, for any reason, the entire system shuts down and anyone anywhere can call anyone. since 911 calls are logged and tracked, legally, it wouldn't be a privacy intrusion to identify the culprit of a phony 911 caller. likewise, the whole intelligent jamming system could be designed to have no privacy implications whatsoever, just blocking some phone according to location and time, who knows whose phone. it COULD be used to snoop, but not any more than the current cell phone providers already does. and besides, it would have to work in close cooperation with the cell networks, and so these installations would not be anonymous or unmarked or unknown, allowing for some sort of privacy policy to be enforced
the whole point is, any problem like this is actually a business growth industry waiting to happen, and somebody, perhaps one of us reading this comment will start a company that will be earning 100 million a year in 10 years providing exactly this sort of jamming to movie houses, universities, churches, etc. all that is required is the fcc to open the doors, and the current cell networks can easily see the light here in terms of new revenue sources
currently the policy of cell phones is anyone can use it anywhere. there's no reason in the world why cemetaries shouldn't be allowed to shut that off during funerals, or courthouses during trials, or churches during weddings, all triggered to shut down and allow all traffic the moment anyone hits 911. the tech is already there, just the willpower and the accretion around the idea that traffic shaping for cell network's time has come
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Like passing notes -- the original method of texting?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
1: It's illegal
2: What's to stop kiddies from skyping, iming, etc. over wifi?
When I was in high school, rock music and dancing were illegal. We couldn't even dance at prom. That is, until Kevin Bacon moved to our town.
The point is irrelevant though as these things are illegal. United States: illegal to operate, manufacture, import, or offer for sale, including advertising (Communications Act of 1934)[4], with fines of up to $11,000 and imprisonment of up to one year.
I work at a Law School. If my building full of lawyers couldn't figure an angle to make this work, I'm pretty sure it isn't going to work.
It isn't legal, and if it were, it will open up a whole lotta liability for the school.
Scenario: Columbine-like event. Students & instructors try but cannot call for help because attackers first control the prinicpal's / Dean's office where the equipment can be shut off.
Sceanrio2: I'm a (age of majority)-year old (substitute teacher | student | janitor ), and my (Parent |spouse | child | ward) is (sick | giving birth| dying | being attacked | at the hospital | being sent home from school) .. and I'm the number they were able to reach on speed-dial. .. but I can't receive signals.
Possible solutions:
1) make a no-phones rule and enforce it. Make parents sign consent to confiscate phones as condition of attendance.
If a student is disruptive with a phone, confiscate it and make parent come to school to retrieve it. Inconvenience the parents and they'll deal with the kids.
2) Actually teach. In many (not all) cases, the teachers/professors most upset by this are the same 'educators' who can't keep a student's attention for more than 15 seconds.
If you made your class interesting ( presupposing: you care, you know the material, you work at presenting it fresh).. then students would watch you, and not try to find something else to do.
3) Make it worth Verizon's or ATT's investment. For the right price, you know there's got to be a switching solution.
(a) - refuse to route calls unless the parties are registered in advance.. i.e.: Johnny's cell can always rcv calls from 20 numbers his parents register plus appropriate emergncy numbers, but during school hours, and while in the school+corporate "cell" range, he cannot rcv any other calls / send to other numbers at certain times. Optionally leave recess and 'free period" schedules open.
(b) - make it a condition of class attendance that -Privacy is lost- all cell phone records of calls made inside the School's cell are open for School officials to review. If caught using a cell phone for anything non-emergent during any class or exam, penalize, suspend or expel student.
(c) come up with (or activate existing) remote programming modes. While ( in [area of school] and [hours= school time]) force ringer to (vibrate) + disable email / internet browsing + limit text count to 3 - 5 per hour. ( naturally, allow fairly easy remote or local override by parent or LE when necessary and appropriate)
People are using smuggled cell phones for arranging hits and drug deals from prison here in Homicide City, and we can't even get permission to jam the airspace over the prisons. We've resorted to specially trained cell-phone-sniffing dogs in Maryland, and apparently our methods are much requested by prison systems in other states.
What would be wrong with something like, "Keep your cell phones turned off. First offense, a week in jug. Second offense, two weeks in jug. Third offense, you don't get to finish the year..."? Maybe they don't put kids in detention any more.
If the cell phone carriers object as strenuously as they do to cutting off a bunch of felons, they're really going to begin screaming if somebody tries to cut off a bunch of high school students.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
They aren't treating the disease. If you block a kids cell phone he'll find some other way to communicate with friends.
Try to get them to stop chatting before you try to stop them from chatting. There IS a difference.
This isn't about disruption, education, cheating, or anything else--it's about control. It's the same reason airlines don't want phones on aircraft--if there's an emergency on the ground, or somebody's loved one gets ran down by a bus--they can't communicate, can't get information, and can't panic.
The schools want to exercise the same sort of control over their charges--and cellphones enable people to work around the bureaucracy established to inhibit the flow of information. If they can keep students from getting timely information about the outside world, they can better heard them onto bleachers in event of whatever the disaster/threat of the day is.
To the people who say kids don't need cellphones--you make me sick. You don't need a phone, electricity, or running water--but these very implements are essential to participation in modern society. Would you have our schools raise a bunch of children without permitting them the very best tools and collaborative resources available?
To the people who say it takes too long--I once was stopped by a few jackasses--opened my phone in my pocket, pressed and held "9", hit the speakerphone button, and kept my thumb over the earpiece that makes noise.
What conversation do you think the 911 operator heard?
Sorry--this isn't about education, it's about them keeping students from calling the police or her parents when they strip search a girl suspected of possession of tylenol.
If they want this measure--that's fine. But only if the school accepts strict liability for any and all security incidents, regardless of whether they occur by staff, student, or outsider--and punitive damages on top of that in the event any staff ever do anything that could be even speculatively assumed to be a result of abuse of lack of communications by student.
What if instead of jamming phones, the school put up their own cell antena. They could work with the other local providers to tweek the handoff rules such that phones in side the school are significantly more likely to stay on the school's tower.
Once you have all of those phones on the school's tower it would be simple to shut down texting and internet access while still allowing access to 911 and emergency numbers listed in the student's records.
Sure, it'll cost more than $5000 to get up and maintain, but it is much more likely to pass muster.
Personally though, I'm all for the confiscate and return rule. It's cheaper AND it reinforces lessons in personal responsibility.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
It seems that a more legal/safer method would be to simply make a rule requiring all cell phones be turned off and use detection equipment to detect when students break that rule. OTOH, I suppose one wouldn't be able to localize the signal much more accurately than a classroom, but that should be enough to inform a teacher to keep a closer eye on their students. Identifying cell phone users in hallways and such would be harder... but I doubt that's as important.
Near all fire alarms? That sets off its own alarm? I don't imagine kids will casually pull that thing just so they can make a call. Then again.. I guess I shouldn't underestimate these kids!
I suppose it would be hard to talk to a 911 operator with that alarm going off, but still... I'm sure their used to hearing alarms.
I think the FCC might have just a tiny little bit to say about this....like say licensed frequencies, unidentified signal transmissions, transmission device uncertified for these frequencies, exceeding Part15 power limits etc.
All they need are the usual restrictions for movie theaters. Tell students that carrying a cell phone is fine, but ringing has to be off while in class, and texting in class is a no-no. That's enough to keep cell phones from interfering with the school's educational mission. Beyond that, as a Government body, the school has no business interfering.
Maybe if class was actually engaging and worthwhile for high schoolers this wouldn't be such an issue.
Suspend students who use their cell phones during class. And not the weak ass day off from school suspension... i'm talking Saturday suspension picking up trash. Make it clear using their phones during class is forbidden. After losing a Saturday or two, they'll stop.
i'm planning on not allowing any kids i have (poor things) to have a cell phone or neural implant until they can pay for it, or i'd get them a phone that can only send and receive between family members.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
So you are saying that back when kids had no mobile phones, there were no school schootings by said kids... What is the next conclusion to be made?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Of course it should be:
School System Considers Jamming Students' i Phones
Better luck next time editors ...
There's one for the patent office, 5m jammer in cars which, when disabled manually or automatically on impact, call 911 via bluetooth. A bluetooth connection being required to allow manual disabling.
And as much as these phones are being used in school, I'm surprised this has not come up a few years ago. A big red Cell Phone Kill Disable button in every classroom should be enough to deal with emergency situations. Should have been done yesterday IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Used to sub for local high schools which had rules against cell phone usage during class. The students refused to follow the rules...used the phones & were rarely punished for this. Not only that...I was punished for following the rules...since the schools are there for the students & their learning. The administration certainly didn't like my answer when I told them the students were using their phones during a closed book exam. Ended up getting a new job after getting tired of me getting on the wrong end of this battle. Funny thing...when these "little angels" go out to the world of work & their boss tells them no cell phone usage at all...wonder if mommy/daddy will swoop in to let their boss know they are entitled to use their cell phones whenever & however they like. My current job is in a secure area. I even put my hands into the jump suit with the pockets sewed up...I can be fired.
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. - Charles M. Schulz
Using jammers is a bad idea, is illegal in this country, and can make you lawsuit fodder for unintended consequences. Jammers usually aren't very accurate, so other services can also be jammed. Not just those on nearby frequences, but look through the harmonics as well. And they go far beyond the intended area. Years ago there was a case where someone appeared to be jamming aircraft traffic control radio. It would happen the same time every day. When they found it, it was a vcr that had some leaky rf signals coming out! And this was not even meant to be a jammer. Everything today runs over radio communications. Cause an airplane to crash, a pacemaker to malfunction, accidentally jam a police radio and let a murderer get away, you will make the lawyers very rich.
Better idea: in the areas that can not have cell phone traffic, rebuild the areas with faraday shields.
Already in place in Morris County, NJ. And BTW, there's more to it than merely "not using it or else." Kids subscribe to RSS feeds, have alarms, event-tones and other nonsense that isn't caller-to-caller. Whether legal or not I'm not arguing, whether helpful or not I can't say, but I can see the schools' side of the argument and think thousands of kids are not going to suddenly (remember to) shut off their phones before starting a school day.
They are backing down, it's not legal.
http://gazetteonline.com/2009/07/31/iowa-law-blocks-schools-call-for-jamming-device
The Associated Press Wednesday, July 15, 2009; 8:27 AM Maryland's top corrections official is scheduled to testify in favor of legislation to allow states to get permission from the federal government to jam illegal cell phones in prisons. Gary Maynard, who is the secretary for the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services, is set to testify before a Senate committee on Wednesday. Maryland Sen. Barbara Mikulski also is scheduled to appear. She is a co-sponsor of legislation that would allow states to petition the Federal Communications Commission to use jamming technologies in prisons where illegal cell phone use is a significant problem.
Tech Support: "No, sir...clicking on 'Remember Password' will NOT help you remember your password."
This is MORE American stupidity, Tell the kids that their phone must be off in School and give Six-stokes-of-the-cane, on their bare backside, of both sexes to the first caught, in School Assembly.
Cane $10, and it would fix a lot more problems too.
After all, Doogie Howser might be a student there.
We have zero tolerance for stupid things like pocket knives already, why not have an "approved electronic devices" list with everything else "unapproved."
Add these to the approved list:
- medical devices proscribed by a medical doctor (not a dentist or chiropractic),
- single purpose electronic calculators.
Done.
Any non-approved devices need to be stored in the school office during school hours.
if it is deemed legal
notice issued in 2005 says the sale and use of transmitters that jam cellular or personal communications services is unlawful
Are lawful and legal different? [facepalm]
Porquoi?
Every few months the exact same story comes out, with the same headline:
"XYZ is considering jamming cell phones".
Hospitals, movie theaters, restaurants, schools, it never ends. And every time the story talks about the people in charge expressing an interest and saying they are looking into the feasibility, and every time it fizzles out because the legal restrictions are massive. It's never gonna happen, so lets stop acting like it matters every time someone WANTS to jam cell phones.
Children today, especially in inner cities and a lot of afflulent suburbs have been raised to think that rules are for other people, not them. They see their father driving 80 when the speed limit sign says 55. They see their mother trying to get away an a coupon scam at a grocery store. Come April it is all about how much you can hide and get away with on income taxes. Their older brother or sister is downloading music and movies. Don't think the children don't notice this and understand - rules are for other people.
So they go to school and there is a rule against cell phones being turned on. No texting in school. They see someone else texting a friend while taking a test. Well, it's confirmed - rules are for other people.
How exactly do you get children like this to understand a "rule"? It makes no sense to them whatsoever. They go out and get a job and have utterly no comprehension that surfing porn at the office might somehow end up getting them fired. Or stealing from their employer. After all, rules are for other people. They have spent their entire lives being shown over and over that rules do not apply to them.
Rules? Ha. It is currently against the rules to bring guns to school. How many schools have metal detectors to catch guns and knives being brought to school? How many students, in spite of the rules, bring guns anyway? Sorry, like the song says "Up with your rules!"
Until you change that basic philosophy, the only way to do it is a cell phone jammer. Or search the students for cell phones and take the away when one is brought to school. Or confiscate them when they are seen by a teacher. Forget about making rules - only direct action is going to get anywhere.
Then let me carry my gun. If I can't call the police in for a shooting then I better be able to shoot back at least.
If this school had a problem with kids kissing, would they wire their jaws shut?
Rather than implement a costly and complicated technological solution, what this school needs to do is implement some good old-fashioned discipline. If a teacher catches a kid misusing a cell phone, just give the kid a day of detention. That'll get old pretty quickly.
We should be teaching children that obnoxious social behavior has consequences and giving them a chance to learn why such rules exist. The "blocking" solution will just enrage them.
Related: how many of you work at companies who block certain web sites and personal email accounts? And how does that make you feel about your employer?
Back in my day, we didn't have beepers. We didn't have fire alarms. The PA system was the teacher yelling across the room. Barefoot, through five miles of three foot snow, and uphill both ways, dammit!
-Troll, Flamebait, and Offtopic are NOT equivalent to disagreement.
Uh, they can prescribe things that are valid. Closing the stuff off just because they're not a medical doctor is bogus. What about DO's as well, hm?
If it's got a prescription, it probably ought to be allowed unless it's being misused.
The truth of the mater is that Schools should use the sense God gave a rock- not that they seem to be doing this of late. It's damned simple. If it's got a purpose, unless it's being used in a disruptive manner intentionally, you let it stay. If it's disruptive (or potentially so...) and no other legit uses, confiscate the damned things. If they won't let you confiscate, suspend/expel the student on proper grounds- because you'll have them at that point.
But noooo...we can't do that. We can't discipline our kids either- it's "abuse".
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Just because the FCC says blue is an ugly color, and should not be worn, does not mean it is so.
I forget at what time the FCC was attributed the legislative power to pass laws concerning citizens in the US...i didn't quite get that memo! O_O
What happens when people living next to schools aren't able to make phone calls? What happens when the jammers interfere with every other wireless device in the school, like wifi and the radios they issue to the administration?
Instead of jamming, which is illegal, why don't schools (and theaters, etc) set up their own phone microcells (picocells?)? Force phones in the building to associate with the inside cell, then set that cell to signal "No Circuits Available". There would also be no connection to the "real" cellular infrastructure, so no problem with incoming calls or texts.
I may not have the terminology correct, but this should work both technically and legally.
I sincerely doubt the next time there's a dire emergency in a school, that the maintenance guy responsible for shutting this thing down, will be willing to go running in to do it.
A bucket in each classroom on the teacher's desk.
If the student's phone disrupts the class, it gets turned off and put in the bucket till the end of the day.
If the pull it out and start using it when they're supposed to be paying attention, it gets turned off and put int he bucket till the end of the day.
Those students that can be responsible can keep their phones. Even on their person and quietly receiving texts, emails or whatever, or even use them when they're done with their classwork as long as it doesn't disrupt the class.
Those students that disrupt the class with them, or cannot use them responsibly get them confiscated until the end of the day.
Students that behave can keep their phones, students that can't, can't. Teachers can still use theirs, and so can the administrators, janitors and visitors. And you can buy a lot of buckets for a fraction of $5,000.
Everybody wins but the people selling the questionably legal cell phone jammers.
Question everything
People get really bent out of shape about cellphones. I don't like them going off at inopportune times, either, but I see that as a small price to pay for the convenience of always being able to place a call, or be reached, if I so choose. If you forget to turn the phone off and it goes off in a movie, I'm not going to freak out, as long as you look like you made an honest attempt to silence it ASAP. Just do better next time. Most people don't like looking like an ass in a college class any more than you like having their phone go off. Thankfully cell phone usage has gotten beyond the point where people liked to be seen on them. Remember this?: "Oh, I'm sorry. My CELLULAR phone is ringing." As they proudly whip out a Motorola MicroTac (nothing "micro" about that beast), and yammer on it just to be seen doing it.
IMHO the kids liked using their cell phones in my classroom just because they thought it was fun to break the rules. I decided to make the phones work for me. I use twitter, and other SMS stools as a way of communicating to my students outside of the classroom. The students got points for following me on twitter, and often I would put out bonus point questions etc. I realized that an arms race wasn't going to make my job easier so if I couldn't get rid of the cell phone menace I'd do my damnedest to make it a tool for getting things done.
It turned out pretty well last year and I plan on making better use of it this year. Sure if the kids were being obnoxious about texting in class I'd call them out on it but I did find that when they thought of the phone as a tool I had fewer problems.
load "$",8,1
Many parents would have a fit....
My brother in law called his dad from school when he was having an issue with another student and a teacher, and he drove down there an cussed out the Principal and teacher on the spot over the issue. His instructions are basically to call him any time the kid has an issue or problem, even if it's in the middle of class. Technically phones are against the rules, but it's no longer enforced because of parents.
Now I'm 26 (going on 27) and am already worth enough to never have to work another day in my life (sold my company; started another one, etc).
[Needs Citation]
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
If a teacher sees a student with a cell phone, they confiscate it for the day. If it happens again, the school holds it until a parent comes in to retrieve it. Works for me. There's no education-relation reason a student needs a cell phone while in class.
It is unwise to ascribe motive
If kids were involved and interested in their own education with good curricula and competent teachers, they would be to busy learning to text their BFF Jill.
Its time for a 4 strikes rule in the schools. First, schools prohibit use of cell phones MP3 players etc...in classrooms. Inform the parents and students that the use of said devices in the classroom is counterproductive to learning and classroom discipline. When a student uses a prohibited device in the classroom:
First offense, the device goes to the office, and the student picks it up at the end of the day.
Second offense, the device goes to the office and the student picks it up 3 days later.
Third offense Device goes to the office, and is mailed to the parents with an explanation why, and the notice that upon ayn further violations , the Fourth offense rule will be applied..
Fourth offense (and any further offenses) The device is confiscated and the collected devices are destroyed at the end of the school year.
A teacher at my old high school, who coincidentally was around when my mom was in school, albeit a bit younger, had a couple ways to solve things.
1. I know how to hit you so it doesn't leave bruises, and I know where all the cameras are in this school. When it is my word against yours, you lose.
2. Sue me. I lease a car, rent a home, and all my kids are done with college.
Of all the teachers in my school, he caught the least amount of grief, because he made everybody aware that he was not going to drop his principles for anyone. Seemed to work alright.
Something witty.
IC 35-45-2-5 Interference with the reporting of a crime Sec. 5. A person who, with the intent to commit, conceal, or aid in the commission of a crime, knowingly or intentionally interferes with or prevents an individual from: (1) using a 911 emergency telephone system; (2) obtaining medical assistance; or (3) making a report to a law enforcement officer; commits interference with the reporting of a crime, a Class A misdemeanor. As added by P.L.71-2002, SEC.1.
I have a lot of problems with this, not to mention the fact that it can be difficult to control the range of such things.
You never know what is going to happen, and because of that the potential risk and issues that go along with jamming outweigh the benefits of jaming.
If the school can't find a better way to prevent cellphone froms becoming an distractiong, that's an indictment of whatever they're currently trying, not an indicator that they need to unlawfully repress a vital communications technology.
Monetize them instead of jamming them.
(1) Put one or more micro-cells in the school so that's what the phone will attach to, instead of the regular towers.
(2) When calls go through those micro-cells, add a surcharge of $10/minute
(3) Use the money obtained to fund the school system
Frankly, someone under 18 can't sign a cell contract, so kids with cell phones are kids with rich parents who have enough disposable income to buy their kids a cell phone, and who can afford to pay proportionally more in order to fund the schools, and probably should be doing so, in the first place.
-- Terry
I"m 40 years old. I graduated from a small-town high school in 1986.
We had rules, and we had to follow them, or things happened.
Calculators were allowed for some things, not for others.
Notes were allowed for some things, not for others.
Specific attire was required - long pants, shirts without obscene, drug, or alcohol related imagery or phrases.
If you acted up, you got detention at school and most likely punished at home as well.
If you had stuff you weren't supposed to have - like hand-held electronic games during class - those things got taken away. (Yes, such things did exist. They were primitive, but they existed.)
But, apparently, those methods of child management no longer work.
Wouldn't a school policy of phone confiscation handle this? For example:
"Cell phones may not be powered on between 8:00 and 3:00, except during scheduled lunch or study hall. If they are seen in use or observed to be powered on, they will be confiscated until a parent comes in to the office to retrieve them."
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
At my high school, you were allowed to have cell phones if you turned them off in class. If your cell went off in class, though, you could be sure of getting detention. Since turning off cell phones during meetings and the like is good etiquette outside of high school too, I say let the students have their phones if only for a valuable learning experience.
It's hard for many to appreciate the extraordinary hold cell phones have on today's students. When they're not sending a message, they're receiving one, or thinking about receiving one, or thinking about what they'll say next.
With a strict classroom policy of taking phones to the office for parent pickup when seen in class, I can nearly shut down the visible side of the cellphone equation. But there's absolutely nothing I can do about the visible side. Legs will still be vibrating throughout class, and students will take the bathroom breaks they need to stay in the conversation. If you think enforcing cell phone restrictions is hard in the face of today's all-powerful parents, just try enforcing strict bathroom limitations.
Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that a cell-less student would magically become an attentive student... but phones are a hell of a lot more compelling than most traditional ways of tuning out instruction.
I applaud the school for actually considering this. Although I'm sure they'll find, as I did, that it wouldn't be legal or practical, the amount of increased learning they would get for 50k would probably be far greater than anything else they could purchase with that money!
Build a small explosively pumped flux compression generator as a physics project, ensure the schools computers and powered down, and voila no cell phones. Educational AND effective.
Rather then jam the signal, why not instead hi-jack the phones through a special cell transmitter? This way, all attempted outbound and inbound calls would be blocked with an automated message informing those effected. With the exception of 911 and other emergency numbers.
Life is not for the lazy.
Here are some things you should consider
1) Cell phone jammers block all cell phone calls not just the kids. You would also be blocking teachers,staff and administrators cell phones.
If they did that in my school district it would be the employee unions filing suit not the parents. Adults should not have to beg their boss
for the right to make a phone call. I use my cell phone at work because its easier calling directly into the front office than using the intercoms.
2) Cell phone blockers do not make schools safer, the school district in question is in Iowa the town of saint angsgar
has a population of 1,000, I can only guess at what their motivation is.
3) In case of an emergency noone would be thinking about turning off the blocker, A cell phone blocker at a school is a terrorist's or school shooters wet dream. Imagine a locked down school an office staff incapacitated and noones cell phone working to call 911.
Shut down in case of emergency? But phones are how emergencies are reported!
Reminds me of the "Emergency Broadcast System"--which comedians wondered why it wasn't used during 9/11...
we don't have the funding for over time to do breakfast clubs any more.
Have the teacher allowed to administer a fine on the parent for when the child uses the phone during class time. The fine is like a fix it ticket where the parent can explain to the school by showing the bill and access times. If the ticket is incorrect, the ticket is dismissed. If not, a $100 fine for each incidence should be incurred on the parent.
After a few dozen tickets, the school will have a good amount of money for their pains and the parent will probably make sure the kid doesn't use their phone in class.
You can pay for better jamming equipment that doesn't jam emergency numbers. that is quite a bit more expensive, but basically it works like those cell phone repeaters people can buy to get better coverage in their house. It catches the call and redirects it. The demos for them in the stores are fun because you can dial out and it redirects all calls to a voice recording showing that it did indeed catch your call and do something with it.
If they do legalize jamming, I think the requirement should be zero jamming of emergency services. such a requirement, from my layman's perspective, seems reasonable.
(note - I didn't RTFA. I like to express my uninformed opinions on a wide range of topics)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
just make a rule that cell phones are banned from school.
Anyone caught with a cell phone gets detention or suspension for repeated offenses.
If parents want to reach a child in emergency they can call the office and have them paged, if a student has an emergency they can use the office phone.
Reasons for banning cell phones:
#1 They distract class.
#2 They are used for cheating.
#3 They are used for passing notes via texting.
#4 They stop the student from learning.
#5 Other students can easily steal them.
#6 They can be used for playing games instead of learning.
#7 They can be used for listening to music instead of learning.
#8 They can be used for Internet surfing instead of learning.
#9 They make noises that interfere the class.
#10 They are counter-productive to the learning process for many other reasons.
Teachers need to have cell phone detectors to sniff out the illegal use of cell phones. No more body searching, just use the cell phone detectors.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Most school districts are having their funding cut to the bone right now and are having to lay off teachers, and they have $5K to spend on THIS? Fail, fail, fail. Try actually *gasp!* enforcing the existing rules, get parents to participate in their kids actually following said rules, and NOT spend money on stupid things. Better yet just change the rules so you aren't even allowed a cellphone on school grounds. Besides all this, I'm sure the legal bills from being sued by people NOT on school grounds who have their cellphone service interrupted will be much in excess of $5000 by themselves. Nope, stupid idea.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
First off, welcome to killing the well-trained "dial 911 for any problem anywhere". And good luck with the alarm company's wireless backup. And should any maintenance be done on the building, by any contractors, I guess they won't be able to talk to each other, or back to HQ. And should there be some emergency when the one guy with the key to the jammer isn't around, or is in the bathroom, I guess fire fighters can't find each other anymore.
All of that aside, on the perfect day, where nothing in the buliding is anything but perfect, what's with these one-way emergencies?
What about emergencies outside the building that require the use of someone inside the buliding? What about a parent requiring a student child in an emergency? Or what about a teacher's child in another school across town getting hurt -- sorry, no way to reach Mom -- listed as the emergency contact of course -- because she's an astronaut and is currently en route to Jupiter. oh wait, she's two kilometres away in a school, and equally unreachable.
Oh, and I hope that the jammer doesn't go through the external walls of the building, into the neighbour's property.
So, in the end, humans have about five advantages over most other species (on this planet or presumably elsewhere). One of them is co-ordinated communication, and is the largest push in technology (always has been). It's how we guage the intelligence of other species, how we assess other cultures, and how we benchmark historical civilizations. But here, in schools, someone intends to destroy it -- not only for no good reason, but for a worthless and only temporary-guaranteed-to-fail-in-the-medium-term reason.
And these are educators. . . not of my children.
Label cell-phone use by students in school "terrorism". That gets you over all the legal hurdles to any infringements of any individual rights. Then send the little bastards to jail along with their terrorist-loving parents if they object. Problem Solved (tm).
For $5,000 I can supply them with an impressive-looking device whose interference with cell phones is completely legal. The FCC and the students won't even be able to detect any interference from the device. :-)
FUD ... what about the lawsuit which happens when 5 or 6 kids get killed in a school shooting that could have been partially prevented by someone locked in a classroom without landline access calling the school office with their cell phone? I think "wrongful death" would cost a lot more than the pain of being harassed by a few stupid parents. Not to mention the public backlash from cell phone jammers and the potential for a freedom of speech based objection.
Seeing as how they found out from the FCC that such a plan would in fact be illegal they've given up on the idea: http://www.kcci.com/news/20237550/detail.html The priorities of the schools here are just insane.. first the Des Moines schools decide to become the Internet Police of their students both in and out of school, now this..
but there's no way to install that kind of passive material in a school for the $5K budget specified assuming that it's COTS. One classroom, maybe.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Right. That sure would have been a winning strategy in limiting Columbine, no?
Benefit vs. Risk? I think they forgot about the unforseen. I guess that's why it's called "the unforseen". :-)
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
I think that theaters and schools should have transmitters that send out a beacon which (future) cell phones would respond to by ringing (or other audible response). Upon entering a school or theater your phone would ring and you would be reminded to either turn it off or put it in vibrate mode. This would not stop people from making and receiving calls or even being annoying about it, but it would keep rings from interrupting a show or class without taking away the ability to call 911 or your mother.
The defibrillator is no more of a distraction than the dead kid on the floor. The worst day to get anything done in class were the days with dead kids left laying about :(
Even if this is found legal and they try to use it the parents are going to raise hell. In the school system my mother works in they tried to ban the kids from being able to bring cell phones into the school and the parents wouldn't let that fly. Parents see it as a long leash they can put on their children. Some of these parents are so paranoid that even the idea of not being able to call there children directly frightens them.
sorry for my comments, I'm drunk
..teacher's and administrator's phones. This is not right. The adults need to be able to communicate for emergencies. There's no guarantee there is a landline in every room or that it will work (such as in a fire). The way to handle it is 1 day in school suspension for every classroom interruption due to cell phones.
Camping on quad since 1996.
You can only pass notes to people near you. With a 'phone you can be distracted by anybody, anywhere.
No sig today...
"You can get it back from the principal after hours."
Good luck with that one...seriously.
No sig today...
All the hard-line phones are still functional. As a reminder, before the late 90s, it was only those hard-line phones available in the first place --- and nothing catastrophic came about due to lack of mobile devices in the hands of students in emergencies...
I know if an emergency were to happen in a public school I'd hope the kids were following the best possible procedures to get/be safe instead of making phone calls.
What they should do is hold strict policy to ban the use of the cellphones, cite the kids once notifying the parents, and then expel the kid the second time. When Jimmy has to go to a crappy school, or his parents have to drive him halfway across the county to get to school --- then maybe he will listen.
Well, since the FCC says you cant have them here in the US, i think that question has been answered pretty clearly. I think the goal should be getting the laws changed to something more rational, not questioning what is on the books now.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I really don't see what is so difficult about this. Why can't we just get rid of the legal obligation for kids to attend school, also get the government out of the education system and let the free market do it's job. Then if one decides to go to school, you would agree to any of their rules voluntarily. This would lead to most students abiding by the rules, and also lead to a better learning environment due to the fact that only kids who were there to learn would be there. This would also help solve the problem of boring teachers, as better teachers would get better pay and work at better schools.
I agree that cellphones are a distraction in the classroom but there are some things I do have strong feelings about. First, cellphones should be allowed after the bell rings on the last class of the day. There have been a few times when my sons have been expecting me to pick them up and I have been stuck in traffic but I can't call them because the phone is off. Second, phones should be allowed on the school bus. I once spent two hours waiting for a school field trip to return but couldn't contact my son because the school bus driver wouldn't let them have their phones on.
Buy one of these for each classroom: http://www.universalpart.com/Cellular-Phone-emf-Detection-Meter_item_6111.html That will detect the signal from a phone, then someone is busted.
Every rookie teacher spends their first year thinking more discipline and heavier enforcement is the answer. Good teachers grow out of that, and realize that their initial problems stem from a lack of teaching skills.
Any teacher who thinks the answer to their problem is a Faraday cage or a radio jammer needs to drop the chalk and walk away from the blackboard.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
That won't just block students it will block teachers, trades persons, visitors...
;)
Not all emergencies are about what happens in the school, some pertain to parent issues.
Those sort of issues come to the surface when class sizes are too large and the school takes a fundamentalist approach to education and ignores the need to teach ethics, social behaviour, basic psychology and etiquette.
"Please take off your hats, turn off your phone and leave the attitude at the door."
Better to train them in schools, that what schools are for than have to slap them in a movie theatre.
A number of posters have asked why not just make a rule and have school personnel enforce it. Schools can impose various punishments. The answer is that punishment doesn't work as a behavior mod. That is to say that it's self defeating. The effect of punishment over time is that the student will just learn to live with whatever the consequence is for texting, because they get the reward first. Texting during class has some kind of fantastic appeal that I won't ever understand. More than texting any other time, it's imperative that it be done during the 45 minutes that I'm teaching math. Sending pictures, whatever it is. The best way to change the behavior is not punishment, but extinction. That is, make it so that nothing happens when they engage in the behavior. So, if the school could find a way to just make texting not work, that would be the ideal. Remove the reward. There are flaws to the technical solution of rendering phones inoperable, again as others have noted.
Theoretically, if the student population at (say) a high school were not turning over every 4 years, the school might be able to get away with blocking for a while, then removing the blocking and just telling people that phones don't work in school. It's like pretending to tie your horse up and it thinks it's restrained but it really isn't.
The other argument against yet another school rule and enforcement is that teachers and administrators don't have time for that. There are better things we could be doing with instructional time than confiscating cell phones.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
The jamming of cell phones will cost a life and spark a real controversy. I say it here first.
If they can cheat tests via cellphones, teachers should stop being lazy and make everything essay answers...
Why my teachers are always able to catch those who use their phones during class...?
Hmm. Maybe there're some mysterious Chinese techniques? But in fact almost all teachers can easily catch the texters, here in China.
I was going to make a sarcastic remark about many textbooks you could buy with $5000, but given the price of educational textbooks these days, the answer would be something like "12".
Still, schools are always begging for money, I have to wonder if this is the best use of their funds.
Sure, everyone's always ready to jump on kids and deprive them of 1 more thing that makes their lives more pleasant, but does anyone remember Columbine, where cell phones gave authorities better insight into what was going on?
Any serious attacker now will, if the can, attempt to take out the phones, and if successful, they can chain the doors and just keep going until the kill absolutely everybody, without a single alarm getting outside the building.
When I was a kid, I once caught H from my mother for referring to the school as a prison, but it's really not a coincidence, I think, that this school, and a lot of prisons, are both trying to jam cell phones.
Hopefully, the FCC will continue to vigorously enforce the law, and fine the socks off anyone they catch with a cell phone jammer.
I work at a large high school (2000 students) and this is not an issue. In the student agreement it is spelled out that you use your phone during class - you loose it until school is out that day. Period.
Since phones and texting is a major social thing for kids - most kids follow the rules. Others loose their phones.
In fact we are looking at a new service that allows a teacher to easily create a number of polls or quizzes that students can access via their cell phones (during class). The deal here is the responses are anonymous which reduces the stigma of being wrong or allows kids who a shy to participate. For the teacher its a quick way to see how many kids picked up a new concept and how many are still confused.
We need to encourage - but control - the use of technology in learning.
Its not the years, its the mileage
What these "Brainiacs" at St. Ansgar have failed to realize is that in order to cover the whole school they would also have to jam the surrounding public area. Maybe someone in their science department should enlighten them to how radio signals propagate!
There is no way to restrict the jamming to just the school! Hell if they are paying $5000 for the system it could probably jam as far as five miles which in an urban area would be a disaster! This is the reason its against the law to even build one in the US.
They should just go with the system the NYC schools use. Student cell phones are banned from school property and are confiscated when found.
In my school you don't have a signal inside the buildings (while you have a good signal outside). I think they placed some kind Faraday cadge in the walls :p
ONE instance of someone breaking a leg or having an emergency and not being able to dial 911 and they'll have a lawsuit pending. Dumb.
Insert
I'm a computer tech for a district with many buildings. The only way I can be reached most of the week is via my Blackberry.
Our custodial staff all have two-way pagers so they can be paged to clean-ups and the like.
Yes the buildings have PA systems, but those are used at a minimum so they don't interfere with classes.
This idea is just stupid on so many levels. I have to agree with many of the posters here. if you want to make a policy saying students can't use cell phones in school, fine. Then just enforce it by taking them away until the end of the day.
for those in the non-us, how do they handle it there? i've heard that students in europe were having cell phones far earlier than those in the US.
Just block text messaging. And perhaps every phone number but 911. If it's an emergency, the phone can still be useful.
There may be some legal issues, but how about a voluntary cell-phone confiscation waiver, signed by the parent/guardian? If caught using cellphone in an un-authorized manner (time, place, etc) the phone would be confiscated until the end of class/day (depending on offense I would guess). After the confiscation, the phone would be returned to the student, and a letter would be sent to the parent if necessary(depending on the offense-ringing because you forgot to turn it off is different from using it to cheat.). The parent/guardian would not have to sign the waiver, but if they didn't, then they would be called to the school to deal with the issue EVERYTIME there was a transgression. The kids get to keep their phones in case of emergencies, and if they couldn't use it responsibly, eventually the parent would tire of coming to the school (if they didn't tire the first time), and either confiscate it from the kid permanently, or until the evening/weekend.
Faraday cage ... kids ... chewing gum ...
The instant solution for no phones during class is to suffocate them?
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..