Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Disconnects Modded Xbox Users
S-4'N3 writes "The BBC reports that Microsoft has disconnected approximately 600,000 Xbox users from Xbox Live because the devices they are using have been modified, either with software or with new chips, to play pirated games. 'Microsoft confirmed that it had banned a "small percentage" of the 20 million Xbox Live users worldwide.
Microsoft said that modifying an Xbox 360 console 'violates' the service's 'terms of use' and would result in a player being disconnected.'"
Apparently some people have gone as far as calling death threats to a "Director of Policy and Enforcement for Xbox LIVE" and his wife (theres also irc logs where he came to say it on #360banned)
There has been modded xbox360 bans before too, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to people when they do get banned. And at least it keeps the cheaters off games.
N-T
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
By "disconnecting" it means banning from playing in the "live" online network (which you must pay to play anyway).
It is still possible to play offline games with banned xboxs
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I think the correct term is "de-resed." And it should be pronounced using the best possible David Warner snear.
Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
create a third-party XBox Live Server serving refreshingly
GNU GPL games to XBox.
Yours In Novy Urengoy,
K. Trout
Listen, I hate Microsoft. I think the people who run Microsoft are criminals. I cannot for the life of me believe I'm about to say this:
You buy an XBox 360, you can do whatever you want with it. Mod it to your heart's content.
But the Live network belongs to Microsoft. They have a right to disconnect you if they want.
Now excuse me while I find someone to fulfill my user name.
This should mean I'll never lose to some 12 year old in Halo or CoD again, cause I'm sure they were all modding. Yep, that's definitely it.
600,000 of 20,000,000
there are some who would call this "three percent"
sigs... don't talk to me about sigs....
The great thing about online console play (the only thing, really, that it has over PCs) is their closed nature. It's much, much harder to cheat on a console than on a PC game. Don't get me wrong. I fully support their right to mod their own hardware. But I don't want to play them online.
According to Starfleet medical research, Borg implants can cause severe skin irritations. Perhaps you'd like an analgesic cream?
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
Albert Einstein
I took it into a shop [the Xbox], there was a guy back there and I asked him and he did it for me [chipped it]. He charged £75 to get it chipped but at the end of the day I said to myself I'll pay £75 to get it chipped, after two games I've paid the money back.
I've probably saved about £600 and I've copied roughly 30 or 40 games. A lot of them I've downloaded or I've taken off friends that have downloaded themselves.
So at what point do you put two and two together and realize that getting kicked off playing online is not such a bad thing if you've saved £600? Is there really any wonder why XBox Live wants to deny you service? How exactly do you maintain outrage at being banned?
His sob story was going pretty good until he got up to those last paragraphs of admission and even saying he'd never do it again (implying he is wrong).
My work here is dung.
Not being an asshole myself commenting this way , but m$ is being an really asshole doing this, I don't hear apple lock up modded apple tvs, and jailbraked iphones, and have m$ ever given free wi-fi in airports?
The only reason someone would lift the hood of their car and make modifications to it is to break the speed limit.
Surely, modding has nothing to do with changing the behavior of the games consumers purchased, to gain more replay value out of them. This idea goes against the wishes of the capitalist pigs who want to sell you a locked-down product and charge for each and every modification/enhancement to it. In order to do this successfully, they have to make sure you (the user) are entirely helpless.
Bought a 3rd-party X-box over 6 months ago. I got a second when it RROD'ed, and noticed that the other couldn't play some games that my original could. I'm guessing that the original has a non-original DVD drive, and that those games are well-silkscreened copies, as they never did come with a case the way the Halo game had when I got the system...
So I wonder if when I turn that sucker on now (it's been solder-reballed which fixed the RROD) whether it will be permabanned from XBL. Mind you the only time I really log on to XBL is when playing video files etc, because it appears for some rather idiotic reason it tied the Codec downloads to your account rather than an overall system update. I suppose I'll just have to run it unplugged from the network.
Overall I wouldn't have a problem with not using the machine on XBL (I don't really do so anyways), but the fact that updates/codecs/etc are tied in there makes it a pain in the ass.
I think it's more funny how people like him think they are entitled to get any number of movies, music, games, etc for free without paying as if they are owed them. Yet, I bet if you asked these same people if it was perfectly okay for their boss to no longer pay them a salary for their work because the boss didn't feel like it, they'd be all up in a tizzy.
There are some very funny, outraged posts regarding this in the official xbox live forums. Microsoft has also banned players for a number of other offenses, including obscenity and racism, and these posts are great. My favorite: http://forums.xbox.com/29600400/ShowPost.aspx#29600400
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Hitler is going to be pissed!
PISSED!
120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
That hit me where the pun don't shine. Ouch.
Reply to That ||
... a small percent of a large number is still a large number.
Did Microsoft really think this through? The people who mod Xboxes are their best customers. They are the enthusiasts who care enough to learn more about the console.
I doubt that this effort will even result in an increase in revenues that will be enough to pay for the enforcement. There must be better ways to improve profitability.
Best regards.
Glad i never bought one of those pieces of shit.
This three percent is one helluava mighty pirating engine ain't it? According to Microsoft, it's this three percent that's been the cause of the falling profits all this time. Now that they have been eliminated from being able to purchase stuff from Live... er.... I mean, uh.... now that they've been ejected.... No....
Can we just jump to the "Profit" step now, quick-like?
Edith Keeler Must Die
Talk about suicidal. Sentiments within the gaming community are critical when it comes to consoles. Many will see this as an attack on them.
Aww, look at all the console kids wanting to be PC gamers.
Why would they want to sell more 360s? Don't they still lose money on each one? My understanding was that they did, but made it up on the games and such. Buying an extra 360 isn't going to cause a user to buy more copies of the game, so why would they be trying to encourage more 360 sales that cut into their bottom line?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Their parents should say "No. You buy it yourself. Go earn some money."
How, given modern laws against hiring children?
The timing on this is making me skeptical. It looks like they waited to do the bans until the Christmas season. That way little jimmy will be asking for a new xbox because his old one got banned.
The number is a wild ass guess. It's from a an anonymous post to a forum. In typical internet fashion it's being parroted around as fact.
http://www.digital-forums.com/showthread.php?t=608748
It's literally friend of a friend info that the BBC et al. is reporting as fact.
I find being offended by me offensive.
'Cause modding hardware you own should be illegal!
No, but violating the terms of use you agreed to buy using their service means they are perfectly justified in banning you from that service when you break the rules.
I wonder if we'll get stats on how many of the consoles were banned were actually registered as modded because they used the 'copper penny heatsink' mod to prevent Red Rings due to overheating and just didn't reassemble their console correctly.
No one forced any of these people to buy a 360 and no one forced them to agree to the terms of using Xbox Live.
If one agrees not to modify the hardware, that rules out all three major game consoles. So as major video game publishers leave the PC and flock to the consoles, what's the viable alternative to the console cartel if one wants to play local-multiplayer video games on a TV set?
First of all let me say that the market for used xbox consoles just got extremely dangerous!
Microsoft needs to set up a system where you can check the status of an xbox console remotely so people can still sell consoles with confidence... 600K Xboxes are about to go up on ebay for a deal that is just too good to pass up.
Secondly if you assume that you do not mind playing games offline that you have pirated, you can still beat the system. Is that not what this is all about?
Step 1: Buy an xbox that has been live banned for very cheap off ebay. It has already been modded, so you dont have to pay for that.
Step 2: Download 50-60 dollar games for free and play them to your hearts content, offline.
After a few games you have already made your money back from the initial purchase of the console.
What if you want to play on xbox live? You have a live console that you do not hack and just enjoy online games there.
You still have to buy games that you want to play online, but there are a lot fewer online games that are worth playing than there are short and sweet single player games that you can just download for free.
does the slashdot crowd think copying 30-40 games and "saving £600" is good?
And, how many of those games does the modder actually play on a regular basis? With the mod, he can get access to 30-40 games. But does he really play 30-40 games?
I'll bet money he plays just a few games. Now do your math. It's close to a wash at 75 pounds.
Microsoft was attempting to create a closed market for games when it developed the Xbox system. The free-market system found a way to defeat that closed system. Or, don't you believe in free markets?
Best regards.
Where have I heard this before? http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/11/11/1336200/OS-X-Update-Officially-Kills-Intel-Atom-Support
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
There are three reasons to mod your Xbox:
1. Turn it into a cheap PC
2. Play homebrew software (basically #1)
3. Steal games.
All of these rely on the same method: replace or disable protections on the OS or base firmware. It's in the quick start guide(the thing that tells you what is and isn't included) that if you mod your xbox, you will not be able to play Live! and may not be able to play the games you own.
So why the hell is anyone surprised about the ban?
And why the hell is anyone even angry about the ban? They expected it!
This is really simple. You don't like the product, don't buy it. Microsoft hasn't misrepresented a thing here. It's kind of the same thing as the hackintosh, actually. Is Apple evil too? If so you have a real simple remedy -- don't buy it. These companies are within their rights entirely. If someone wants to sell a different kind of game console and a different kind of game network where games are cheaper and mods are allowed, then fine. Maybe there's a business there. Maybe this is your big chance. Go start that business and stop whining.
"My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Microsoft ban 600,000 consoles last night. I guess it's pretty serious."
Will tomorrow bring us a story how MS's holiday goal is 1,000,000? Internet journalism at it's finest.
http://team-xecuter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51518
Wouldn't "Dude! this Xbox has a mod-chip so you can play copied games!" be the main selling point of such a console?
I'm so sick of DRM, proprietary hardware, and other BS like this from Microsoft & Sony.
In this case its particularly annoying that they won't present any evidence of the supposed modding and its likely that many people who didn't mod their systems got banned.
All this content management seems like its directed at killing the secondary sales market for both consoles and video games.
This is like a one-strike law run by a big business behind closed doors to ban people from the internet.
I call shenanigans!
if you sold it, you can not deny anything if it gets changed by the buyer.
So MS better watch out if you disconnected EU Xbox users.
you might end up getting another case with the EU.
For an EU Xbox user to be disconnected from services MS has to proof that changes made to the Xbox result in illegal use - eg. actually using pirated games. The ability alone is not enough!
It is YOU who find you are mistaken. About a great. many. thingssss.
Your pal,
Darth Sidious
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Timothy, if you ever so much as mention that p-word in the context of copyright again, I'll seriously come over and personally gonna kick your ass! I mean it!
You can sue me. But you can't avoid it!
Fuckin' idiots! You all heard that FUD word so often, that now it became normal to you, and you repeat it yourself as if it were nothing!
Every single time you make someone read that word, you throw another log on the big fire of the media industry, to burn free thought and art as we know it!
So every time you use that word, art and freedom die a little. And YOU are guilty!
The day when I will just let it slide, when someone uses media industry FUD, is the day when I die! But I won't die without taking the guilty ones with me!
There. With all you cattle living your lives in a walking daze, that FINALLY had to be said!
The funny thing is, you probably will mod me down for it, because if I attack them, to save you, you attack me to save them. Fuckin' brilliant!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
Wonder if these 600k users are the ones that had no choice but to modify their xbox's in order to fix because Microsoft wouldn't repair them. Just maybe they decide to MOD them instead of temporary fixes.
It appears that this update reflects chipped XBoxes. I guess this story isn't about the storage update that is coming up?
I'm waiting on that update to determine if I can buy a laptop 120GB drive for $60 instead of just deleting crap off my 20GB drive.
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in the mud. After a while, you realize the engineer enjoys it.
In the USA, at least, the manufacturer can't deny warranty coverage due solely to modifications, unless those modifications directly caused the damage resulting in the warranty claim. SO, even if you modify the heck out of your engine, they still have to honor the warranty for the rest of the car.
I wonder why people go through the whole hassle of pirating games, one you might get the ban hammer and two it might ruin your XBOX. Just so you can save a few bucks? Why not just wait for six months or so then hit up eBay or your local used game store. Sure you might not be able to play the latest and greatest game with all your friends online but you also won't get your XBOX banned or ruined.
Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.
No, it wouldn't. Any extra consoles that get sold would be a happy accident (and a small one at that), not the point of the exercise.
Why are so 'many' of the 'words' in 'quotes'?
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
I think Microsoft took the best course of action in this situation. Ban the modded consoles from the protected Xbox Live network (to stop possible cheating) but still allow almost full functionality of the modded console. AKA, you bought the hardware, do want you want with it.
Maybe I don't understand the nature nor purpose of these mods, but isn't what you do on your hardware your own business if you are not stealing from Microsoft?
vendor lock-in for this is the main reason I will never own a console. That and games are a lot more fun on a PC.
I'm sure the timing isn't accidental. Whole lot of kids out there begging their parents to replace that bricked console now..
4. Install XMBC and use it as a Home Theater PC.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
So, now if you want to go to eBay and pick up a used console, you are at HIGH RISK. (This goes for the entire used XBOX market.) MS really should set up some kind of verification system where you can call in a serial number and check an XBOX or "preowned" system where you can get a guaranteed, stamped approval. I'd bet that pretty soon, we are going to see a flooded market of XBOXes that won't be able to connect. Imagine what Craigslist is about to look like.
:) DOUBLE BAM!
Now what about if you aren't using LIVE? Nothing's going to stop you from running pirated games now, and it's probably going to be really cheap to get these "dead" consoles now. Life's good! If you buy a $50 or $100 used console and download a few games, you have already saved yourself the cost of a console. BAM!
There aren't that many good online LIVE games IMO, so it makes a lot of sense to have the cheap "dead" console to play the majority of the enjoyable ones. And if you really want to play LIVE, just mooch off your friend
It is very simple, this demonstrates, once again the arrogance of M$, and, the solution,
... that these bastards sell.
BUY nothing Windoze M$ apps Xbox Zune
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Just talked to a guy on c/l and talked him down from $125 to $40. Gonna go pick it up in a few minutes. Your right about that
Black Friday is 16 days from today.
I'm sure this hasn't escaped most slashdotters, but Live is a huge incentive for people to buy legitimate copies of games, which is why they so vigorously defend it. I'm all for fair use, and I'm inclined to agree with the fellow above who said, essentially "You own the hardware, do as you please. Microsoft owns the network, so they can do as they please as well."
What this amounts to, is that any game with a strong multi-player component is less likely to be pirated, since you can only play the single-player portion once a modder has been IDed -- This is great for the Devs (unfortunately only after the publisher has taken a substantial cut), great for users since software hacks are uncommon, and great for microsoft since they get a cut of game sales too.
I'm not sure if Sony has an answer to this since their network isn't centralized. Even if they can detect such things, they'd either have to distribute lists to third parties (who run the servers themselves), provide a verification service, or act as a gateway in the way that live does. This is definately something to consider as a third party developer -- One of the market players has a very strong anti-piracy incentive built in, while the other has nothing. Extrapolating from the 3% of Xbox live that was banned, and assuming that maybe 1/3rd of that number wouldn't buy the game if it weren't for piracy, a 2% sales gain for no additional effort isn't anything to scoff at.
It's not about selling new consoles -- After all, they're barely breaking even, if at all.
They expected it!
That implies that they actually read the quick-start guide or the ToS. Most of the time, they've read neither. (That's no excuse, of course.)
When you take my words out of context, it is easy to criticize. But you haven't responded to the question; why punish people for gaming their systems? After all, the audience are gamers, right?
Gamers who cared enough to want to do well on Xbox consoles learned that they need to soup-up their systems. It was just another level of gaming. It was easy to do and the rewards were there.
Microsoft's solution to the situation is disordered. Microsoft is punishing their own customers for taking advantage of Microsoft's mistakes. If I were running Microsoft, I would fire the person who is doing this and replace them with someone who can come up with a win-win for their most clever customers.
Best regards.
...I got a RROD before they could ban me! Haha! I win!
(DISCLAIMER: I do not have a hacked console. I did, however, just receive a RROD from a very recently purchased Xbox 360 Elite.)
Name...That...Autocomplete!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Go fuck yourself, seriously. I bought an lcd monitor a few years back, it just died on me so I smashed the shit out of it. Funny thing is I coulda smashed the shit out of it when I first bought it, I coulda put stickers on it too if I cared to. Hell I could have sex with my monitor if I choose so! The point is IT IS MY MONITOR I CAN DO WHAT I LIKE TO IT! Still dont get it? How about we go buy a brand new car and put a new engine in it, or we can go buy some food and throw it away. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TO ANYTHING YOU BUY! What the fuck is wrong with these people, no one can tell me how to use the shit I buy, and if that means I wanna mod my console because assholes lock shit out and I miss out on a ton of jp games is just how it goes! Fuck your ToS, Fuck your EULA's, and fuck all of those big businesses that hurt and punish customers, then stab them in the back. I will do what I please to anything I own, if big corporations cant deal with that then they need to go and die like the dinosaurs.
Visit my Forums?
Are there mods for the X360 that can be "turned off" before going online so the console appears, for all intents and purposes, as an unmodded one?
I believe that some PS2 modchips advertised such features.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it no surprise that among those 600,000 users banned (nearly 4% of their users!) that there was some collateral damage?
One user, who reported having spent over $5200 on the xbox and XBLA, wrote to Consumerist that Microsoft banned his fiancé's unmodded console, and then treated them like criminals when they tried to get Microsoft to fix the problem:
http://consumerist.com/5402056/xbox-gamer-says-he-was-banned-online-for-no-reason
Linked from there is a story from another user whose xbox suffered a fan-induced RROD. Not wanting to wait nearly a Month for Microsoft to fix it, he took it to the shop to have the fan replaced, apparently tripping some sort of modification flag. Microsoft's response to him? Literally (and I quote) "But this is what you get for tampering the console." (sic).
What a disaster.
And that's ALL they have the right to do.
If MS also fucked up their boxes, by accident or on purpose, then that's not cool.
Microsoft got wise and noticed that some idiot USA players and installed Forza 3 to their XBOX 360s hard drives before the initial release date of the game in the USA.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
mod parent up!
Hell yeah, the prices will drop so low that it would actually be feasible for hardcore gamers to have two X-boxes, a legit one for Live and a modded one for everything else.
The article was understandably lacking technical details of the ban. Pardon my ignorance, but would it be possible to "unmod" the X-box (remove the chip and/or install the latest legit OS) and be able to successfully authenticate to Live?
\==M.P.U==/
/==M.P.U==\
I have seen first hand someone get punted with an Xbox that is in no way modded, and in fact was a replacement he received from MS just a few months ago, after his first one RRoD'd.
He tried to talk to them about it, but they said their system is fool proof and will not unban him.
No sig for you!!
...must mod parent up or DIE.
Baned for useing a non M$ over priced HDD others don't do that.
The PS3 lets you your disks.
Direct tv lets you use e-sata disks. and they are ok with bigger disks on the in side of owned boxes as well.
DISH network lets you use usb HDD's
M$ locks out 3rd part memory cards.
How is the Benjamin J Heckendorn able to get away with the xbox 360 laptop?
Seeing that this is an insightful comment and all, why isn't it modded accordingly?
Why is this still at zero score?
Nope. The machine's hardware ID is blocked. I'm guessing it's kind of like the hardware signatures used for WGA validation on Windows (i.e. It's based on serial numbers in various system components or something). I also think it's the same mechanism that's used for DRM authentication on the system; media and downloaded games are locked to that console.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The Live ban isn't news, it's been happening for a long time now. The real story, which the author has missed, is that along with the Live ban, Microsoft also now disabled the capability of 360s to use a hard drive. There was no mention of this in their terms of service or 360 manuals. In addition to this, MS corrupted the user's saved data on the disk.
So...the real story could read something like: Microsoft corrupts user-data and breaks hard-drive compatibility on modded Xbox 360s without prior notice.
Why is this news? Microsoft have been doing this since the days of the original Xbox. This is the reason my original Xbox with its 40 quid Xecutor chip running XBMC, serving films and music (I guess I should say "choons") and still playing Halo one and two, has never ever logged in to the games network. The Xecutor chip is switchable and can be turned off to do all that complicated online stuff however ... as long as you never feed it after midnight.
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
+5 !!!
PLUS SIX!!!
If it isn't an authorized modification, he isn't.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
This story just oozes WIN. Whether you agree or disagree with Microsoft's stance here, it's pretty impressive that they had the balls to disconnect 3% of their entire subscriber base. Kudos to them for putting their money where their mouth is.
I don't get it. If one inserts a bit-for-bit copy of a genuine DVD, how does the console know it is not legit ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the same deal if you want to put your own code on your iPhone. Even the fee is the same ($99).
In Microsoft's case, you have to take into account that the hardware is subsidised (they might actually be making a small profit by now, perhaps still amortising development costs), so expect to pay more elsewhere, otherwise people could buy an Xbox below cost and run nothing but their own software on it, which isn't a successful business model.
In Apple's case, the $99 fee applies whether your phone was subsidised or not.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
There are three reasons to mod your Xbox: 1. Turn it into a cheap PC 2. Play homebrew software (basically #1) 3. Steal games. All of these rely on the same method: replace or disable protections on the OS or base firmware. It's in the quick start guide(the thing that tells you what is and isn't included) that if you mod your xbox, you will not be able to play Live! and may not be able to play the games you own. So why the hell is anyone surprised about the ban? And why the hell is anyone even angry about the ban? They expected it!
1. No the mods only allows game backups to run, not to turn it into a PC. 2. NO, see point 1. There is free dev kits provided by MS for homebrew, modding your Xbox does not provide further homebrew advantages in any way. 3. YES, this in effect the only advantage to current Xbox 360 mods as they have only really bypassed the checks for original DVD's.
When I was a teen (not too long ago, I'm only 22 as of writing this), I couldn't afford every game I wanted. You know what I did? Went down to Blockbuster and paid a couple bucks to hire it. Sometimes I was lucky, and one of my friends owned a game I wanted, and would let me borrow it. A few times, we would even plan so we each got different games, so we could trade them when done. Now, I have a younger brother (13yo) who burns every PS2 and XBox game he can. I'd bet the farm the majority of these haven't seen more than a couple of hours of playtime. They have absolutely no value to him. I asked him how many games he's beaten, start to finish, and the closest he could think of was 'unlocked all the characters in arcade mode on Tekken'.
--sherman42
mod parent down!
After the enlightening experience that was playing CoD4 and CoD5 on XBL, I've determined that it's not worth another $40-50 in January when it expires.
Too bad I can't find any softmods.
Has anyone mentioned that MS not only ban the Live connection, but ban the 'Install to hard disk' function as well, even when the hard disk is officially from MS? You know the noise of reading DVD on 360 console...
mod parent up!
With the abundance of the red ring of death syndrome it's rather sketchy to buy a used xbox 360 already.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Reminds me of the recent bans on the EVE Online MMO, "Unholy Rage":
"While the number of accounts banned in the opening phase of the operation constituted around 2% of the total active registered accounts, the CPU per user usage was cut by a good 30%. That is a whole lot of CPU for the rest of you to play with, people."
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687
nt
Many places including best buy are open to negotiation on the prices of some items. TVs laptops, etc. Games, movies, music and the like are not. For music and movies its mostly because the prices are too low to make it worth it. For Games they are borderline, but it doesn't matter anyway, they are fixed price. I've had it explained to me, but I still don't understand how that doesn't violate US laws. Or more to the point why it shouldn't.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
The hardware information is obviously transmitted over the Internet. Why not setup a proxy server to try a replay attack? I know it seems a bit obvious, but it's worth a shot. The general idea would be to take a working xbox 360 console, analyze the packets sent after successful LIVE connection, and figure out where the hardware info is being sent in the data stream. Proxy server would rewrite the packets making it appear as though the legit xbox logged in. It's probably encrypted, perhaps try encrypting serial numbers or hardware identifiers in popular algorithms and looking for those in the packet data? If you can get your hands on the patch that disables the mod console it should be easy to RE.
Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
With the Ring of Death, destruction of game disks, overheating consoles and probably other results of the famous Microsoft quality, and now deliberate sabotage, I really don't thing it's a good idea to buy Xbox, period. Why do people keep on dealing with Microsoft at all, despite it leading to pain, trouble and financial loss every single time? I can only imagine the reason as some bizarre combination of stupidity and masochism.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
When a company wants to increase its revenue they will initiate a ban. The pay method of the individual is never banned. The company will no longer have to provided the service that the end user payed up front for. It is then predictable that a high percentage of users that were banned will immediately repurchase it.
600,000 Gold accounts are worth how much?
Arbitray:
600,000 x $27.50 USD (3 months) = $16,500,000.00
AVG user is on day 10 of 90 day prepaid Gold Service
Ban-Hammer is dropped
M$ just made 14,850,000 pure profit by not having to honor remaining service
Follow week after the Ban-Hammer 50% of users repurchase Gold accounts $8,250,000.00 of new cash surge
If M$ or any company for that matter wanted to curtail cheaters and modders, they would ban your Credit Card (pay method).
... if copyright were remotely rational.
Most people are not lawyers and could not care squat about copyright issues, but I think many understand, perhaps at a subconscious level, that it is simply not fair that copyright lasts for more than one hundred years (at least for now, before the "IP" conglomerates try to drive up the current tersm one or two decades more, I am in no doubt that their aim is to recognize copyright as a perpetual benefit).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Now what about if you aren't using LIVE? Nothing's going to stop you from running pirated games now, and it's probably going to be really cheap to get these "dead" consoles now. Life's good! If you buy a $50 or $100 used console and download a few games, you have already saved yourself the cost of a console. BAM!
Except that the last ban wave will cripple some offline features as well, such as HDD installs (a *big* loss since the DVD drive sounds like a jet engine when spinning), being able to move savegames to other consoles (no more playing you're savegames at a friends place), and I think even some of the media center functions. Also, you won't be getting any game patches anymore, which is also a major downside since so many console games are released full of bugs these days.
The companies that make a living out of hoarding copyrights have lobbied intensely to make sure copyrights last more than one hundred years (with people living longer, copyrights can easily last 150 or 160 years).
That is abusive, but the defenders of this indefensible situation go very easy on the companies that have created this situation, but quite heavy on the people that pirate a few games (or DVDs, or CDs, whatever).
Criticism of copyright infringers should always come paired with the contextual information in which copyright infringement is happening.
As for the information wants to be free "excuse" as you put it, humanity progressed by sharing information, by communicating, copyright is an abomination that arised only by chance, given that it was expensive to disseminate it when it was too much of it and had to travel long distances.
Now that we have instantaneous communication of gargantuan amounts of information, the original restrictions that gave raise to copyright are no longer valid. Companies and governments are desperately trying to keep artificial scarcity pretty much against the laws of physics (and economics).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If you sneak in you are trespassing, so forget about any copyright related issues right there, you are comparing apples and oranges already.
But what about making a photograph of the exhibits? Or what about memorizing the exhibits and then reproducing them?
Why should that be forbidden? It is knowledge, it is art, it is how humans became humans.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You got it a little high, and also, it's current status has changed from insightful to informative.
Isn't it common knowledge that consoles are sold as a loss-leader because the money is made back on games and games licensing? You want cheaper games, buy a PC. Of course these days, the cost difference is negligible on many popular games.
Consoles have now been around long enough that this must be common knowledge. Not to mention that consoles are a closed platform. You try to modify the platform and of course you are not going to be able to play with anyone else. Besides, if you are modding your console to play pirated/copied games, do you really think the manufacturer will go along nicely with that?
One is not entitled to the work of another for free just because someone wants it.
Let's see. Strictly speaking, you're saying "not (a implies b)" where a is "I want the game for free" and b is "I am allowed to have it".
You're not saying "if a, then not b". And you haven't shown "not b". You haven't really shown that there is no good justification for making copies.
I have one: the benefit to the pirate (of the one copy) exceeds the loss to the makers of the game of that one lost potential sale. That is, if we sum up everybody's utility, this is a net gain.
The problem with this is of course that if everybody's a pirate, no one will pay the makers of the game, and they won't have a financial incentive to make them.
And that's the real sticky bit about designing good copyright rules: finding a balance between giving people an incitement to make games (etc.) such that there are great games to play versus avoiding people forgoing the benefit of playing that game.
Because once the game exists, the price of each additional copy is so close to zero that the consumers are willing to bear it amongst themselves (see bittorrent, generous seeders, TPB, etc.).
It sounds like you're saying "you want it? Pay the makers for it" as if that is true for everyone and should stay true at all times. I disagree (strongly) with that, because I think your rule would not optimize social welfare.
I don't know what the right rule is. Maybe Stallman is right: everybody should have the four freedoms with all software they use. Maybe the ideal is that by limiting your choice in software (but not limiting yourself in terms of real features) you can have the four freedoms with all software you use--or you can choose the proprietary $APP instead of the free one if you your feature/freedom trade-off says that's what you want. (From my POV, we're quite close to that situation.)
You plucked the figures 99.9% and 0.1% right out of the air and then started shooting your mouth off basing your arguments on those phony figures.
I don't know what the true figures are and nor do you.
Your PPC version of os X did not stop working, unlike Mickeysoft decided to do with it's customers ...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
"MS really should set up some kind of verification system where you can call in a serial number and check an XBOX or "preowned" system where you can get a guaranteed, stamped approval."
If the console is chipped but has never been online then Microsoft wont even know the state of the console. Even if a console has been online prior to being chipped, they can't tell you for sure that it's not been chipped since it was last online. At best they could tell you if the console is in their list of systems that have been banned, but couldn't say for sure that it wont get banned.
Places like eBay allow you to ask the seller questions- if you ask them if it's been chipped and they say anything other than "No" then don't buy it. If they say no and sell you it and it is then you're free to get all your cash back pretty quick from Paypal (quickly and easily in my experience) as part of their dispute resolution process.
Like you say for people who just want to play offline though it wont matter and is a cheap way to play offline games. Chances are Microsoft aren't even losing out either as people who played online probably will just buy a new XBox and games to keep playing anyway. One of my friends who got banned in the last round a couple of years ago did just that but kept his old box and just used that chipped and banned one to play offline games (like GTA4) and his new one for games he liked to play online (i.e. CoD4).
I have gone through three Xbox 360's. With all the uproar over people getting banned, how come no one here is talking about the failure rate of the console itself? It is criminal what MS has gotten away with this time around, and believe me cheating on Live has nothing to do with modded consoles. I play online on both services (Playstation Network and Xbox Live) and there is no requirement for your console to be modded for you to glitch in an online video game. You can cheat just fine with a lag switch and no chip in your Xbox. The first time my Xbox 360 failed, (RROD) I sent the box in with no argument. The second time I sent it, I got an Xbox belonging to someone else that RROD'd after TEN MINUTES of play. Ten minutes out of the box and it was useless. The third time it happened, I started to think how this console has over a fifty percent failure rate. Guess what? It is cheaper to have it repaired and modded at the same time. The last time I called Microsoft about the repair, I asked them to send me a new unit out of the box, or I was going to have it repaired by a competent technician and have the console modded. They sent me a cardboard box with an address label, I modded the console. Nothing has yet happened, I have a modded console and play online all the time. Why are people here defending a company that put out something as badly designed as an Xbox 360? I have yet to hear this part of the argument and I am pretty damn sure most people who have one have either had this happen to them or know someone who does. To be completely honest, I pirate games all the time and could care less if I got banned or not. If I truly like a game, I buy it for Playstation. I simply will not support Microsoft after all the frustration and feel just fine about that decision. Has anyone here had to go through one RROD or more and had to deal with calling up the Microsoft Voicemail Helpline only to hear, "Well, to be honest, even though our failure rate was scraping 85 percent when we first shipped them, the numbers are significantly less now. If you want an extended warranty, that is $49.00". "Well, If I got it modded...." Before anyone starts in on me. I have a lot of games I bought legitimately and play often, I never cheat and still use Xbox live primarily for private matches with just a close circle of friends and the Xbox for streaming media from my computer. When Microsoft starts using single use codes so legitimately block you from selling your disc back to a brick and mortar store a lot of people might see my side of the argument. It's on it's way.
To my knowledge, no one has cracked the 360 to the point where you can run your own homebrew (outside of XNA). There fore the only reason to mod your xbox is: 3. Steal games.
Is there any way to "un-mod" a modded xBox? If there is then some money could be made by buying modded xBoxes then un-modding them and being able to sell them at a higher price.
Because FUD isn't fact and the XBox 360 is an awesome way to play videogames (or some boardgames) with widespread family/friends.
A month or two after the games release you can pick up most games second hand for around the £10/£15 mark, and some as low as 50p.
If you're willing to wait a year or so it's possible to pick them up new for not much more.
I've probably forked out £200 for a library of around 20 games which I could sell for the same price.
Because we have already had 10s of articles on Slashdot talking about the failure rate of the console. This has been discussed and rehashed a million times on here already. Yeah, the launch boxes had a poor design and a unacceptably high rate of failure. Yes, when you send in a RROD'd 360, they are going to send you a refurbished one back (as is any other electronics company for that matter). Yes, many of us has had it happen to us or to someone we know. But that's the point, that is super old news.
Quite frankly, this article has nothing to do with the RROD. It has to do with people who modded their console to pirate games. There really isn't any other legitimate reason to do it. And it is something that has been done before, so it shouldn't be a surprise that it happened again. The modders knew the risk (or should have) and now are dealing with the consequences.
But really, the reason why MS can still do well, is that they have the best game lineup for traditional gamers (I say it this way since it is obvious Wii has attracted a lot of new/casual gamers). I know that early adopters of consumer electronics often get screwed so I waited a long time to purchase a console with a SKU that had those issues worked out.
But you modded your console and now you pirate "all the time". So you should be happy, MS gave you the excuse you need to break the law and not give money to the developers who make quality games. You lost any moral high ground you could have and I hope they ban you soon.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Problems with the law have to be fixed within the law.
I understand and agree with everything you just said, but it's still NO justification for making unauthorized copies, and there's no reason it be mentioned when chiding people for making unauthorized copies.
Comment of the year
People keep dealing with them because Microsoft now owns part of their collective culture. Yeah, people don't need to play the 360 to survive, or anything, but if all the guys you like to hang out with start playing, and want you to join, you're boned. You can't go to another company and buy an xbox 360 and games. There is only one.
..it's just tough luck if you get banned. Stop whining.
Really.
Enough already.
All your assumptions are made by you.
Assuming all you want. There are free games from people that write them, and then there are people that want to try the game before they commit such price-effective purchase durring hard economic times. $50 was what I payed for Super Mario Brothers 2 for NES from MusicPlus back in what seems like 1989 when I was only f*ckin' 9 Years old after selling my baseball cards to the Batting Cages card collector down the street. Some would say I got what I payed for, but compared to what Microsoft XBox 360 games cost and what the console costs there seems to be some deflation of value that many just can't justify in their paycheck because there are so many little nickle and dime bills people pay. I had no bills when I was 9 years-old to buy a 'tard game that would've costed 150 equivalent of today's funds. People are frugal today. I buy Super Mario Brothers 2 cartridges at the swapmeet today for 0.50 each just to make myself feel happy about the cost. It's like getting more Nintendo Seals.
You obviously have never read the Copyright Act about non-commercial private use. If there is a competition then people will know who the f*ckin cheaters are and who aren't. All the compentitions that I participated on were at the stores in-front of everyone, not remote to XBox Live. You are confused about who does what. 0.1% are capable of legible software programming, and 100% want to be able to use the Tools Everyday(tm) like a Scientology Schoolboi regardless of some administrative function Microsoft steals from your privy. Microsoft should have thought about forcing everyone into their social service default style of function on the Console or this whole cheating mess wouldn't appear like an Authoritarian blush like how Blizzard Entertainment hurts it's customers.
Don't blame the console. There is accounting involved. Don't be a 4chan fag by banning the chips in the box. Didn't you remember that Intel and AMD has done the same to allow remote termination of their manufactured motherboards when necessary? Only a US House of Representative or US Congress or US Senate 'tard from Arabia would want any remote administrative function built-in.
Anti-competition hello.
Do you know how large a starting order must be to make your console affordable? Take the best console handheld for example, the Pandora from OpenPandora fame. nearly 600 U$ for one, best thing since PSPortable, but expensive.
Not to mention, larger companies actually press manufacturers to screw with prices on purpose so they are the only ones on the shelf no matter what the demand or actual available is. This kind of anti-competitive tactic is common-place.
Just wondering, what part of Minnesota did you grow-up in? I'm curious, because you must like have 1 store to buy all your electronics and your choice is shit. Do you pick between the Electric Toaster Oven with the Easy-Cleaning tray or buy the Wii next to it on the same shelf? How much Tapioca pudding does your mom make for you when she's upset with how things are going at her job sealing jars of mus'tard?
Only Pederasts acknowledge Children. We need more children to instantly turn into pissed-off men with shotguns then you can't make any more crap legislation.
Quite a few options? Having fun is expensive at the teenage years MORE THAN EVER NOW.
There is nothing cheap like it used to be. You are constantly bombarded by japanese and chinese electronic fads, Microsoft and Blizzard shoot their jizwad of DRM's creativity, and then some faggot comes around with social networking site that let's you scratch my pet testicles itch a little faster than on Cuntwatter dot bomb. Great. Thanks a lot. Oh look, pre-paid Credit Cards at grocery stores just to make it pay these f*cking monthly subscription fees just to keep my crappy fad in operation! Oh joy.
When will I have a f*cking text-mode LCD chatting tool on CB radio band? Oh it's not cost effective, because we need some monthly service fee and tie you down with a legal device called a TELEFUCKING PHONE number just to talk to someone within 100 yards of you.
Ham Radio Operators and CB Radio honkies got the good life, and deserve to have some recent tech abilities to pipe through their bands (if you know what I mean we could do). Packet radio too could use some stuff.
But no, we got to pay monthly subscription costs so some College Dropout at an international corporation can justify his job that a goddamn booklet manual would replace.
You are a f*cking liar. Read the Copyright Act for non-commercial non-profit private use, that you can trial the *ware for satisfaction before buying it. So what's that game-renting company that doesn't pay for their software but a monopolized non-retail purchase from the game creator just so they can rent it to cheap to 'tards? Oh it rings a bell like a bug landing on my dog sh1t...what's it called?? Oh yea, GAME FLY DOT COM.
But there is hope for little Jimmy "chibby" Johnson because he didn't pay the club $XX every month even though he bought the basket and the eating utensils. You see, he could get the goods himself and sample them just like the Richard Stalman hobos that counterfeit their CostCo and Sam's Club member cards to plague the Free Sample booths. Yea, they all have to sh1t like regular subscribes eventually, but it's all persuant to the Copyright Act.
Enjoy your gaming AIDS.
Will you people never understand this? The fucking games. THE GAMES MAN! Damn, seriously. We'll put up with any amount of dumb bullshit when there is a game we want to play.
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Sieg Heil!
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