Slashdot Mirror
Immaculate Conception In a Boa Constrictor
crudmonkey writes "Researchers have discovered a biological shocker: female boa constrictors are capable of giving birth asexually. But the surprise doesn't end there. The study in Biology Letters found that boa babies produced through this asexual reproduction — also known as parthenogenesis — sport a chromosomal oddity that researchers thought was impossible in reptiles. While researchers admit that the female in the study may have been a genetic freak, they say the findings should press researchers to re-think reptile reproduction. Virgin birth among reptiles, especially primitive ones like boas, they argue may be far commoner than ever expected."
This can only fuel the cult of Raptor Jesus to unimaginable new heights.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Isn't this what happened in Jurassic Park?
If i remember correctly, the last time this happened it didn't end well.
If women get their hands on the secret behind this, it could be the end for men
Immaculate conception != virgin birth.
A lot of people make the mistake of equating "Immaculate Conception" to the virgin birth of Jesus. Actually, it refers to the birth of Mary (mother of Jesus) being born without Original Sin. What the author is referring to is the Annunciation, which is the virgin conception of Jesus within Mary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
This is not what Immaculate Conception means. The Immaculate Conception is the conception of Mary, not of Jesus, with the idea being that Mary is conceived without original sin so as to make her a proper vessel for Jesus. Then again, since snakes don't have original sin, maybe every snake conception is immaculate.
Two WW chromosomes. In mammals, we have X and Y chromosomes to determine sex—but in reptiles, fish, and of course birds, the norm for a female is ZW, and the norm for a male is ZZ. This brought to you by Tilde R: Helping Those Who Hate RTFA.
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sssssst
Is that you?
www.qsopht.com ~q
Asexual reproduction isn't the same as virgin birth.
For all we know, that snake is a slut.
okay, so I don't really want to be a pedant, buuuut... Immaculate conception is birth without sin, that is without the blemish of original sin. What you're talking about here is virgin birth. common misconception (no pun intended). Nothing to see here, please carry on
First Spielberg/Chrichton makes movie Raptors 6ft tall before they find real ones, now female lizards can spontaneously reproduce?
Someone should be asking those guys about their reality-altering machine.
-Matt
--- Need web hosting?
It's not immaculate conception, it's a virgin birth. They are different. Immaculate conception means born without original sin (as in Mary was born without original sin and thus Christ was too). If you want more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
I know this is a common misunderstanding but it is incorrect. I'm not Catholic, I've just been corrected about it in the past and thought I'd pass on the knowledge.
I always wondered where telemarketers came from.
Also direct links to the study are here and here(pdf). The paper is "Evidence for viable, non-clonal but fatherless Boa constrictors" by Warren Booth, Daniel H. Johnson, Sharon Moore, Coby Schal, and Edward L. Vargo.
Raptor jesus..
So she is the immaculate conception, she was not born of a virgin, she was a virgin.
Jesus was born of a virgin.
What could be simpler to understand? For crying out loud people! This is GOD we're talking about!
it's mary's birth from *sexual* reproduction.
i'm an atheist and i know that.
The "Immaculate Conception" referred to the fact that Mary was without original sin, not that she was a virgin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Raters gon' rate.
Life, uh... finds a way
...validate Jurassic Park?
(remember the frog genes they say they used?)
The "Immaculate Conception" referred to the "fact" that Mary was without original sin, not that she asexually reproduced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Raters gon' rate.
"Life finds a way."
More Common.
There is hope yet for slashdotters making little baby geeks!
Oh wait, you need to be female to undergo parthenogenesis? Never mind, false alarm there guys :-(
That is all.
Why can't we let people believe whatever they like? It's not like a little religion has ever hurt anyone.
It doesn't mean 'virgin birth.' Immaculate Conception is the Catholic doctrine that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was herself conceived free of Original Sin. It's got nothing to do with the other Catholic doctrine of the virgin birth, which is that Mary was impregnated with Jesus without any sexual intercourse occurring.
Hope this helps.
That Mary may have been a boa constrictor after all
More Common. Not Commoner.
That Mary was a boa constrictor after all.
Henry Wu: You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed?
Dr. Ian Malcolm: No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way.
...and my ex-girlfriend is wrong. That ISN'T my child!
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
Topics of a sexual nature are confusing to the average slashdotter!
welcome our new immaculate boa overlords (or shall I say overladys?).
And it's actually fairly common in the insect world. Worker bees, for example, lay unfertilized eggs (which, as always, give birth to "drones," or male bees, the same as when the queen lays unfertilized eggs). But for bees, this is almost certainly a throwback to millions of years ago, before the current roles were set in stone -- as drones are incapable of fertilizing non-queens, and workers wouldn't be laying if there were any queens in residence. The modern day outcome is A Bad Day, though in years gone by, it was probably quite the neat survival mechanism. Ants and others also have similar stories. Reptiles? Reptiles do do weird stuff -- e.g., some frogs can change gender, perhaps even at will -- but parthenogenesis is a new one on me. Fun time to be a he herpetologist, and not just because of Harry Potter!
A more thorough article (with better grammar) is available at BBC News.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
As TFA says, it's "virgin birth." The Immaculate Conception was when Mary was conceived without original sin, so she would be prepared for the later virgin birth. This was all probably retconned into the story anyway, but at least get your mythology right!
fRist
Immaculate Conception is not the Virgin Birth.
A snake conceived free from Original Sin sounds like God's idea of a paradoxical joke.
So the snake was born without sin?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Common_misinterpretations
More common. Not commoner.
For what it's worth, immaculate conception isn't unheard of in humans: http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Abstract/1979/03001/Pregnancy_in_a_True_Hermaphrodite.14.aspx
Last time this sort of thing happened, I remember it didn't end well for the fellow. What was his name?
Oh well. Good luck, baby snake.
"Immaculate conception" doesn't mean "asexual conception". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
I'm pretty sure the Immaculate Conception was Mary which supposedly freed her of original sin, not Jesus which had no father involved. So they think Reptiles are sin free? Hmmmm. OK
This comment is the child of just this article.
Too bad immaculate conception doesn't mean virgin birth.
from 2007
Boa Jesus?
Unfortunately, immaculate conception has to do with being born without original sin, not children without semen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_conception
Thanks for playing.
Far commoner ?... Really?
"More common."
It has a meaning... but not "more common". Sheesh.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I do not think that means what you think it means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Common_misinterpretations
...more in common with the snake than she does with Eve?
WAS a velociraptor...
"commoner"...really?
... Jurassic Park already told us about reptiles doing this!
so, in light of this, why do we not see asexual reproduction throughout the myriad of critters still alive today?
now with baby jesus boas?
The Boa Jesus is Born!
Quoting from Wikipedia
The [Immaculate Conception] doctrine states that, from the first moment of her existence, Mary was preserved by God from the Original Sin and filled with sanctifying grace that would normally come with baptism after birth. Catholics believe Mary "was free from any personal or hereditary sin". Mary's immaculate conception should not be confused with the [virginal] Incarnation of her son Jesus Christ; the conception of Jesus is celebrated as the Annunciation to Mary. Catholics do not believe that Mary, herself, was the product of a Virgin Birth
I for one.. ah, fuck it.
A common misconception, but the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary, not to the virgin conception of Jesus.
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
it's come for us...
Doesn't anyone take Biology 101 anymore? This is ancient news. Like, pre-internet news. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis#Reptiles
they should cross these with a pig, so we can get 18' of pork ribs that self reproduce!
The boa constrictor was born free of the stain of original sin and preserved from it until giving birth?
Virgin Birth is a different dogma from Immaculate Conception. If you're gonna be sarcastic, ya gotta be exact.
Immaculate conception != parthenogenesis
Immaculate conception == conception/birth without the stain of original sin
Parthenogenesis is virgin birth
Virgin birth and talking snakes? Where have I heard that before?
Table-ized A.I.
Yet more proof of creationism. Just look at the word parthenogenesis. It's got the word genesis right in it!
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In Roman Catholic theology, the Immaculate Conception was the conception of Mary, whom they hold to have been conceived without original sin, that is, immaculate.
This has nothing to do with the Virgin Birth, which appears to be what the summary is aiming for.
Even most Catholics seem to get this wrong so I won't hold it against the poster, but dogma of the Immaculate Conception does not describe the virginal conception of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, but it the conception of Mary in her mother's womb without Original Sin. It was because she was conceived without Original Sin that she was able to be the mother of Christ.
If anyone cares, I'm an agnostic lapsed Catholic, but still annoyed at how often people screw this up - especially people who claim to be pious or "good Christians", although I'll admit it doesn't help that the media messes it up all the time too.
Unless you're not a Biologist
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
Unless you're not a Biologist. Damn /.'s new interface.
If it ain't broke then DON'T FIX IT. This is /., NOT FACEBOOK.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
No, that is not "immaculate conception."
Virgin Birth is making a baby (e.g., Jesus) even though you're a virgin. Immaculate Conception is making a baby (e.g., Mary) that does not have Original Sin. Entirely different concepts.
I know that the editors are trying to claim that this is like the birth of Jesus (peace be upon him), but the title "immaculate conception" is inaccurate. The "Immaculate Conception" of Mary (pbuh) is a title given by Catholic doctrine; that she herself was born without the stain ("immacula" in Latin) of Original Sin. (Wikipedia) It is not meant to apply to the birth of Jesus (pbuh)
The title should have read "Virgin Birth in a Boa Constrictor."
Whaaaaaaaaat?
Chuck
It is the Son of God!
Fuckin first?
Interesting tidbit: The vast majority of known snake species are capable of swimming. Get a snake washed out to sea, let it drift between islands on flotsam, and with this mutation, a lone female is suddenly capable of being the foundation of a new population in a new ecosystem.
While not advantageous to individuals, this female-only birth trait would be a powerful force in mass extinction events, as it leads to a diverse set of multiply adaptive groups being formed, each specialized in a different direction for a different ecosystem niche. If a meteor equivalent hits, and all the rules of living change to some degree, you have a greater chance of having some in the right niche to survive.
The downside is if female-only births become too common, you stand a chance of losing genetic diversity in the smaller groups - so it being in the background like this, only occasionally popping up makes sense for a species that might have gained benefit from it in more ancient life cycles.
Ryan Fenton
"Virgin birth among reptiles, especially primitive ones like boas, they argue may be far commoner than ever expected." commoner = a peasant more common = correct YES I am aware I need to get laid.
If it had feathers they should definitely name it Quetzalcoatl
So, the snakes were the product of normal intercourse, but were born without original sin?
Come on, I'm not even Catholic and I know the difference between Immaculate Conception and Virgin Birth.
This article is trying to imply that Raptor Jesus might have been conceived through natural processes. It's a pagan trap - don't fall for it.
More common, not "commoner"
The researchers actually said 'far commoner' rather than 'far more common'? I don't know if that is grammatically correct or not, but it sure does sound awkward.
"...may be far commoner than ever expected"
I didn't realize they were British.
For the ten millionth time, the "Immaculate Conception" is the conception of MARY not of Jesus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
-- Adam McCormick
immaculate conception != virgin birth
You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed? No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way.
the immaculate conception refers to mary's birth via *sexual* reproduction.
Ian Malcolm knew this in 1989.
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
should that be "more common"?
Yet more proof that Raptor Jesus is the true savior!
http://phelannguyen.blogspot.com/
oh really?
was the serpent?
The Roman Catholic teaching of the Immaculate Conception is the teaching that Mary was born without original sin. The "virgin birth," referring to Christ, is not the Immaculate Conception.
That's all I got.
I already posted this I thought... not sure where it went... I might be double posting. Bother.
The Roman Catholic teaching of the Immaculate Conception is the teaching that Mary was born without original sin. It is not the teaching of the virgin birth of Jesus.
That's all I got...
WOOHOO FIRST
Or is it more common?
You can't take the sky from me
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Brings new credence to the theory of Raptor Jesus.
Immaculate Conception refers to Maria being conveived without sin. It does not refer to the conception of Jesus. Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with giving birth asexually.
Really?
You can't take the sky from me
As the tag for this story notes, the Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, not Jesus.
So they fuck themselves!
Over an hour, and not even a stargate replicators comment?
Many lizards reproduce photogenically as a quick Google or wiki search will show any interested party. Less common in snakes, it is true. Boidae are hardly primitive reptiles, but they are relatively primitive snakes. The news here is that this particular individual appears to be a switch hitter, reproducing both sexually and asexually.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Glad this only works with reptiles. Otherwise imagine the masses of children from asexual lonely /. users browsing pr0n. On second thought, don't.
If anyone's thinking about cloning any dinosaurs, may this be a warning.
As the story's tag notes, the Immaculate Conception is the conception of Mary, not Jesus. Try to aim for slightly higher hanging fruit the next time you want to make a cheap pun samzenpus.
The slashdot headline confuses the two terms. Immaculate conception means untouched by the stain of original sin. Virgin birth means (obviously) born from a virgin mother.
Since the actual text of the slashdot blurb uses the terms correctly, I suspect that the error is a (typical) editorial contribution.
Does this mean Jesus was a snake?
As the story's tag notes, the Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, not Jesus. Next time, samzenpus, aim for the slightly higher hanging fruit when going for the cheap pun.
The Immaculate Conception was the conception of _Mary_ conception so that she would not be burdened by Original Sin, leaving her a suitable vessel for her to carry The Christ Child. It's "Mary _of_ the Immaculate Conception, or _who_ _was_ immaculately conceived.
That isn't even my mythos, but it always amazes me how many people don't have the first clue about the facts of their own. Wasn't there a post here recently that said the people who know the least about faith are the faithful, or maybe it was that the people who know the most about religion were the atheists and agnostics.
So by one view all animals are immaculately conceived since animals don't have original sin. By another the poster is simply wrong. By all views this is kinda a non-story.
The snake suffered or gave example of androgenesis which is a completely different thing all together.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
I always thought that Jesus guy was a snake.
The immaculate conception refers not to the virgin birth of Jesus, but to the conception of Mary without original sin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Many lizards reproduce photogenically. A quick Google or wiki search will show any interested party many examples. Snakes are not primitive reptiles as the story says, but boas are relatively primitive snakes. The story here is that this individual appears to be a switch hitter, reproducing both sexually and asexually.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Original sin? In my snakes? (It's more likely than you think!)
Jesus was made human, immaculate conception. Satan first appeared as a snake. Now, snake through immaculate conception. George W Bush was right!
Whoever tagged this 'welcometojurrasicpark' is my new hero.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Doesn't this just prove that not only did Jesus exist as the Only Way (tm), but that he was immaculately conceived as well, from some type of half-woman-half-reptile asexually-reproducing demigod?
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
far more common than a commoner speaking common english
So we finally know the truth: Jesus was an asexually-reproduced reptile man of some kind, with genetically-imbued magical powers derived from his innate chromosomal oddity.
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
Immaculate Conception == conception of Mary w/o original sin allowing her to be the vessel for the Christ's birth; if you believe in that sort of thing.
Godzilla.
Kimono Dragon females are known to also do this. If I'm not mistaken I believe it is done "in an emergency" when no males can be found. The baby dragon produced is always male.
More Common Also First
Where's the fun in that?
In the beginning, there was null.
how nerds are born.
But it's not conception!
Parthenogenesis isn't new at all!
Although science may gasp at immaculate conception in a snake Christians have it from an authoritative source that Virgin births in human females has happened at least once.
Fine Jeff you were right. But I still refuse to believe your next claim about hacking alien computer systems with a Macintosh.
Isn't there a species of lizards which are entirely female? They don't exactly reproduce asexually, if I recall, since they apparently need lesbian lizard sex to trigger the weird baby-lizard making process.
Raptor Jesus!
Is that a technical term?
The game.
Through advanced simulations we have found what this baby will look like in 5 years
Monstar L
Sigh.
The reference to "Immaculate Conception" is totally erroneous.
The Roman Catholic doctrine of Immaculate Conception states, in short, that Mary was preserved from Original Sin and filled with sanctifying grace by God.
Catholics need this doctrine because they hold that in general females are horrible sinful creatures and impart a horrible sinful nature to every child they give birth too - hence Mary must have somehow been special otherwise how could she have been a suitable vessel for the incarnation of God?
Anyway, Catholic misogyny aside, this is separate from the doctrine of a Virgin Birth.
So parthenogenesis, be it in snakes or humans, has nothing to do with Immaculate Conception.
Just wanted to clear that up.
I don't think "Immaculate Conception" means what you think it means. It doesn't mean getting pregnant without having sex.
Isn't there a species of south american lizards that's entirely female? The don't exactly reproduce asexually though. They need some dry-humping action to get the process started.
1) virgin birth != immaculate conception
2) why the completely unnecessary religious reference? It looks like yet another attempt to insert flamebait in the summary.
Immaculate Conception was Mary, not Jesus
Not to be a pedant, but this is not an immaculate conception. The Catholic teaching is that Mary was, by the grace of God, born without original sin. That is the Immaculate Conception. She still had two biological parents (traditionally named Anne and Joachim).
It has nothing to do with "virgin birth".
refers to Mary being born free of the original sin, not the virginal conception of Jesus.
The dogma of the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with the Virgin Birth of Christ. The Immaculate Conception was the conception of Mary without the taint of Original Sin.
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Mary was a snake! It's obvious!
1) immaculate conception != virgin birth
2) why have an unnecessary and irrelevant religious reference at all? It looks like an attempt to put flamebait in the summary (again).
Seems to me that "crudmonkey" is also commoner than expected.
On your knees, you heathen!
The words you are looking for are "more common". A commoner is a "common person", the riff-raff, the rude[1] folk, etc.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/commoner
[1]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rude#Adjective, #4.
Mary the mother of Jesus was a snake.
This is quite amazing.
Essentially if the female is unable to find any mate in this year's mating season, it still have the option to reproduce regardless. There is a penalty of having exactly the same genetic code, but I guess it is a much better option than dying without passing any genes at all.
At the same time if the male is available, she can make use of all the advantages of extra genotype permutations that comes with sexual reproduction. It really is a win-win!
This raises the question though: Since it is such an advantage, why is it so rare to in nature to have the ability to reproduce asexually and sexually? Wouldn't evolution favor species that can reproduce with less obstacles?
The article says that the snake gave birth to a litter of all female snakes, only with a peculiar chromosomal makeup -- WW instead of ZW (female) or ZZ (male).
What I wonder is what the significance of WW is versus ZW, since YY in human terms isn't viable.
I also have to wonder what good this is in nature if all such snakes can produce are female offspring. On at least the surface -- unless asexual reproduction is common -- this be a seemingly not-so-useful adaptation in terms of survival.
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
I wonder.. Immaculate you say? Untainted conception? That headline begs hype! When asexual is what one means, asexual is what one must use. :| Bah!
Geekism is your _only_ God!
Wasn't this part of the premise of Jurassic Park? Nature finds a way.
getting to be a bit everydayish........don't you think. Wonder how the revivalists are gonna handle it?
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
kay...
It is the Ssssssson of God!
Here come the Christians .... :)
So there might be some truth in this?
'Commoner'
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
This makes baby jesus cry
The "immaculate conception" refers to the Roman Catholic doctrine of the sinlessness of Mary, and has nothing to do with virgin births.
Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
people poo hoo'd Jurassic Park for show this!
Thank god that human females cant do this yet, otherwise none of the lucky few on here would ever get laid.
...first post? There must be a mistake.
Do not attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.
Parthos a la Yuta!
In Catholic Theology, the Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to the Virgin Birth of Jesus, but to the conception of Mary without original sin.
I guess it's possible that these baby boa constrictors are especially sinless, but you probably won't be able to decide on that issue by reading Biology Letters.
A serpent born without original sin?
I notice that this article is slowly working it's way down the homepage without even a First Post - perhaps all you men feel slightly inadequate now there's proof that yes, we women can do without you! Cue Anonymous Coward's relentless troll-biting and the silent army of female-hating Mods! GO!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
Frosty asexually created post
I notice that this article is slowly working it's way down the front page without even a first post - perhaps all you men feel slightly inadequate with this proof that, yes, we women can do without you! Cue relentless flood of Anonymous Coward biters, and the silent army of woman-troll-hating mods... First "Rachel is a snake" comment get's modded redundant 'cos I've already pre-empted you! GO!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
Uhm.... "Immaculate Conception" refers to birth without original sin, not to virgin birth. (In the Christian tradition, Mary's birth was the Immaculate Conception, whereas Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary.)
There goes my mental model that all snakes are evil sinners! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
I seem to recall reading about this many years ago. Not seeing anything on the web older than a few days though. As I recall it only happens under certain circumstances relating to the age of the snake and specific environmental factors including availability (or lack?) of food, temperature, humidity(?) etc.
Anybody else hear this before?
Cue Anonymous Cowards relentless biting and the silent army of woman-hating mods... GO!
First person to call Rachel a snake gets modded "Redundant" - cos I've pre-empted you this time!
This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
Isn't it obvious? They filled the DNA gaps with frog DNA, which can change sex. The boa obviously changed sex to impregnate itself.
frost piss
It's amazing what a critter can do when the chips are down.
Yet another nail in the coffin for Evolutionists.
How could this be possible except by the hand of god?
I know no one actually cares, but the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Virgin Mary, which was accomplished through the usual means, but was free of Original Sin. It is not the virgin birth of Jesus.
sic transit gloria mundi
nothing like a boa, playin' with herself
Immaculate Conception is a whole 'nother thing than parthenogenesis. Has everything to do with (not having) Original Sin, and nothing to do with the messiness of sex leading to conception.
Just think of all the fatherless children
IT WASNT!
- I'd prefer not to.
Praise be to Boa Jesus!
RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
Fancy.
The Immaculate Conception is the Roman Catholic teaching that God kept Mary from having original sin and a sin nature from the beginning of her conception.
The Virgin Birth refers to the Christian belief (of all stripes) that Jesus was conceived while Mary was still a virgin.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
First!
Immaculate Conception does not mean 'virgin birth'. It means conceived without sin.
The boa then proceeded to test the fences, looking for weak spots.
Wonder if this happens in humans too. Prob the female wouldn't be believed in that case though.
"Virgin birth among reptiles"
If this isn't a Raptor Jesus troll
I don't even
Immaculate conception is being born without original sin. This is more accurately described (as far as religious allusions go) as a virgin birth.
First Post! Wait a minute..... I think something is wrong.....
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Dr. Ian Malcolm: The lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me.
Chaos theory at work, ladies and gents. You were warned.
If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
This is why I love science as much as I do: if not for science, we wouldn't have learned that real virgin birth happens in serpents.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
Immaculate Conception is being born without original sin (the birth of Mary), not the same as virgin birth (the birth of Jesus). Whether anyone believes in those religious concepts is another story entirely, but the title still used the wrong term.
Wow. I've never seen a story go dead like this on Slashdot.
Server problems, or just a boring story?
Surely somebody can come up with something witty and biblically snide. Snakes? Immaculate conceptions? I mean, come on!
I for one find the idea of snakes creepy, and self-replicating snakes even creepier. Brr.
Reptiles suck.
-FL
First post.
and jesus was the son of the devil?
www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
Virgin birth of a serpent. That's gotta count for something.
Does this mean that the second coming of Jesus Christ... is a boa?
http://news.discovery.com/animals/boa-constrictor-virgin-birth.html http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/e0l98/a_boa_constrictor_has_a_virgin_birth_resulting_in/ saw this on digg a few days ago
I don't know much about biology. But can anyone explain why so few animals exhibit asexual reproduction? Has it "just not happened", or are there factors that make it unlikely for particular instances of it to be successful, or is it a suboptimal way of doing things in terms of continuation of a species?
It might be technically correct, but "far commoner" is just bad writing.
Cool story, bro.
That's virgin birth, not immaculate conception. Immaculate conception is what the story tells how Mary was born: no original sin. I'm not even Christian and this is clear to me.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Really?
I believe the term you're looking for (and finally spit out in the last sentence) was "virgin birth." Immaculate conception is something else entirely. Specifically, it's the uniquely Catholic doctrine, developed as part of the cult of the Virgin Mary over the past 500 years (finalized only about 100 years ago), that Mary was conceived without sin. God put a kind of "sin shield" around the egg as it was being fertilized apparently, and so she was born without the taint of the original sin (i.e., "immaculate"). Catholics would claim that she was thus made fit to bear the son of God. This whole notion is rejected by Protestants (Martin Luther explicitly argued against the growing importance of Mary in Church mythology back in the 16th century). Again, bottom line: immaculate conception refers to MARY's birth (without sin), not Jesus's (without sex), and is not a part of non-Catholic Christian doctrine.
Look, I'm no partisan for organized religion, but if you're going to throw around religious terms in an effort to make a story seem more interesting, at least use the right ones. <BiffTannen> You sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong.</BiffTannen>
Of course, given the role a snake played in the creation of the original sin, a boa constrictor being born immaculately really would be news!
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Stupid title. Immaculate Conception does NOT mean virgin birth. The former (a member of a fallen race being free from Original Sin from conception) is a metaphysical concept that cannot be observed empirically. The latter (a female giving birth without having prior sexual intercourse) may, in fact, be observed empirically.
Sorry for the irrelevant comment. Anyway, interesting article!
- Francis Ocoma
Please wait while Sig Request is being processed...
Stupid title. Immaculate Conception does NOT mean virgin birth. The former (a member of a fallen race being free from Original Sin from conception) is a metaphysical concept that cannot be observed empirically. The latter (a female giving birth without having prior sexual intercourse) may, in fact, be observed empirically.
Sorry for the irrelevant comment. Anyway, interesting article!
- Francis Ocoma
Please wait while Sig Request is being processed...
If parthenogenesis is occurring, it's hardly conception, is it?
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
Immaculate conception doesn't refer to the virgin birth (of Christ) but rather the doctrine that Mary herself was born immaculate (free from original sin), which has no implication of virgin birth whatsoever.
This may sound like a grammar nit, but I found it really distracting to read "commoner" in the summary. Although "commoner" can technically be used as an adjective, it is strongly discouraged due to the potential for confusion with the noun "commoner" which in some sentence constructions can function as an adjective with a somewhat different meaning. For example:
"The commoner dress of the era was rags."
This can be read in two ways:
Hence you should always prefer "more common" over "commoner" for the comparative form of "common". For consistency, "most common" is also preferred to "commonest".
Just to get back on topic, I'm not sure why people would be surprised by this. Parthenogenesis has been observed in a number of reptile species. The interesting thing is the chromosomal oddity, which was that the sex chromosomes were inconsistent with those normally seen in sexual reproduction. (In snakes, females have two different chromosomes, while males have two of the same sex chromosome; in this case, the children formed by parthenogenesis had two of the opposite chromosome---a combination previously observed only in fish and amphibians.) Interesting, odd, and so on.
I'm not clear why this particular finding suggests that parthenogenesis is more common than previously imagined, or at least not significantly more. It's just one more reptile species that can be added to the better part of a dozen previously known to reproduce in this way. I think if it were a lot more common than previously believed, then we would already know that reptiles could exhibit this chromosomal combination. The fact that we didn't know this before actually suggests to me that it is much less common than previously believed. Maybe I'm missing something.
BTW, is this really the first post after almost three hours? Yikes. I guess the love of science really is dead in the world. :-D
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
girl snakes are better
Asexual reproduction in a boa constrictor? This must be a FRIST POST!1
News? Come on, we knew this already from Jurassic Park!
Congrats to Christine O'Donnell. Don't think anyone saw this coming.
Daphne dear, I think we should do an inventory of the terrarium.
Did that really just happen?
The Virgin Mary never thought her spawn would be Bind-on-Account.
Raptor Jesus will return!
Don't think the Virgin Mary ever thought her offspring would be Bind-on-Account. Makes you wonder what would have happened to organized religion if someone had already conceived (terrible pun, i know) the morning-after pill (aka. swift punch to the stomach)
http://www.myths.com/pub/comics/smbc/comics/20080303.gif
FRIST POAST!!!@!#@!@#
Cool story, bro.
"Researchers have discovered a biological shocker: female boa constrictors are capable of giving birth asexually. But the surprise doesn't end there. The study in Biology Letters found that boa babies produced through this asexual reproduction—also known as parthenogenesis—sport a chromosomal oddity that researchers thought was impossible in reptiles. While researchers admit that the female in the study may have been a genetic freak, they say the findings should press researchers to re-think reptile reproduction. Virgin birth among reptiles, especially primitive ones like boas, they argue may be far commoner than ever expected."
really?
Technically, one could argue that all animals are born of Immaculate Conception as, being non-human, they are all born without Original Sin.
Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's birth without Original Sin, not the virgin birth of Jesus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Unfortunately most "believers" don't know much about their doctrine nor about their bible.
Otherwise, atheists would be the vast majority and the world would be a better place.
There's a browser safer than Firefox, it is Firefox, with NoScript
This makes the circumstances of the conception of Jesus more believable.
Virgin birth != immaculate conception
Virgin birth = conceived without sex
immaculate conception - conceived (by sex!) without the taint of original sin
According to traditional (Catholic) Christian beliefs, Christ was born of a virgin, and MARY (not Christ) was born without the taint of original sin ... quite a few years earlier.
So the two terms refer to two totally distinct events: the immaculate conception occurred a generation before the virgin birth.
I am anarch of all I survey.
Had to say it... after all if Jesus was immaculately conceived, maybe Mary was actually a boa constrictor!
If a boa can do it, a middle-eastern gal should be able to do it too.
Now I understand the truth behind the "raptor jesus" mème...
If it bleeds we can still kill it.
There might still be hope for the slashdot crowd!
So, this is proof that Mary was actually a Boa Constrictor?
Oh, and FP, I think.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
that we have found Snake Jesus?
Time to start a new religion?
Didn't they watch Jurassic park?
Martin
Whilst both absurd concepts, they are not the same thing. The immaculate conception was something invented by the catholic church to plug a loophole in the story about a mere human giving birth to a god.
Immaculate conception is not the same concept as virgin birth. If the original sin of Adam and Eve have tainted all births since Genesis, consider what the serpent's offspring have had to deal with.
To the religious minded it may be even more inconceivable that a snake be born without sin than without a father.
Didn't anyone watch jurrassic park? this was bound to happen...
And what about the possibility of this in humans?
Do Boa Constrictors really labour under the burden of Original Sin?
Interesting implications if it turns out to be possible in humans too!
Actually, this would be a Virgin Birth, not an Immaculate Conception. Most people, even most Christians, don't know the difference. The Virgin Birth was the pregnancy and delivery of Jesus by Mary without the um, assistance, of a man. The Immaculate Conception was the conception of Mary without the taint of Original Sin. I'm not sure if it was the submitter's intent at irony, but since a snake helped caused Original Sin in the first place, a snake would be a rather poor choice for a second bite at the Immaculate Conception apple.
Another child left behind.
oh please this idea was already old when it was used in jurassic park, how in hell is this news?
Finally, proof that Jurassic park WOULD have taken over the world !!
I think somebody doesn't know what immaculate means.
*Parthenogenesis* is the right word.
Immaculate Conception means that the Virgin Mary was conceived without original sin, that we all inherit from our ancestors Adam and Eva.
This is absolutely not the same thing.
God just sent an angel to bang those Boa's so they can have their Boa Jesus.
"Commoner" is somebody not of the gentry.
OTOH, cool story, half-clones. Almost like an egg cell divided and then recombined somehow.
Mary, wife of Joseph, was in fact a female boa. Stated I believe somewhere near the end of Matthew.
Immaculate conception refers to the belief that Mary was conceived without any stain ("immacula" in Latin). And thus not, as often thought, to the conception of Jesus. So does the poster mean that the female was born spotless?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_conception
... This is absolutely fascinating. However, I suppose I might as well be the person to point out that while this is a virgin birth, it's not an "immaculate conception" since that apparently has do with a Catholic doctrine regarding Mary being born free of original sin.
We now return you to your discussion of snake genetics.
for Raptor Jesus.
I bet the snake's name was Mary.
I know the fine article mention virgin birth, by why mix in immaculate conception ? Just name the article "parthenogenesis in boa Constrictor". Why mix in christian myth with biology ?
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
interesting and all, but the headline is nonsense. immaculate conception refers to Jesus' mother being herself born free of original sin.
The debate about whether Boas have original sin is theological and not biological.
It's been 10 year, but at last... Even if I did it on a slow day, for a shallow news...
...you might want to read up on the immaculate conception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Common_misinterpretations
Mary has a patent on that, so cut that right out!
...you might want to read up on the immaculate conception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Common_misinterpretations
The Immaculate Conception refers to the birth of Mary (a child conceived without the taint of original sin). The Virgin Birth refers to the birth of Jesus (a child born to a virgin). They are not at all the same thing. You are approximately the 6,696,844,874th person to get them confused.
For those wondering about the calculation:
6,697,254,041 - world population (from Google)
- 409,166 Catholic priests (source)
- 1 (me)
---------------------
6,696,844,874
So maybe the Virgin Mary was actually a reptile. Poor Joseph.
Komodo Dragons are capable of parthenogenesis as well apparently.
sudo mount --milk --sugar
Komodo dragons are capable of parthenogenesis as well apparently.
sudo mount --milk --sugar
Komodo Dragons can also reproduce by parthenogenesis.
sudo mount --milk --sugar
Considering what young females of our species tell their moms, virgin birth in humans is not a rare thing either.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
In Catholicism, the Immaculate Conception of Mary (Mary being conceived without sin) is NOT the same as the Virgin Birth of Jesus(Jesus being conceived without an earthly father).
In Catholicism, the Immaculate Conception (Mary being conceived without sin) is NOT the same as the Virgin Birth(Jesus being conceived without an earthly father).
It's the idea that the mother of Jesus was born without original sin.
It's as if one of the researchers was watching an old copy of Jurassic Park, and suddenly slapped his forehead.
He told me the Bible was all lizard people
Apparently Komodo Dragons are capable of Parthenogenesis as well.
sudo mount --milk --sugar
The word that should have been used is parthenogenesis, not immaculate conception. The two are NOT the same.
Immaculate conception is the belief that Mary was protected by God from original sin when she was born, that Mary did not have a sin nature, and was, in fact, sinless.
"Female boa constrictors are capable of giving birth asexually" - Shocker indeed. I thought snakes laid eggs, rather than giving birth.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
but what came frist, the snake or the egg?
They are very different concepts.
Virgin birth among reptiles... they argue may be far commoner than ever expected
It's been established scientific fact for over a decade and a half that anything with reptile DNA can reproduce asexually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_(film)
Extremely interesting. What the summary doesn't point out is that the boa had in fact mated with multiple males before this virgin birth, so in fact it could have used the traditional method too. I thought animals only did this when they had no access to sperm.
Looks like someone had some fun with the poor thing. Is boa rape illegal in North Carolina?
I didn't realize that Boa Constrictors were born with original sin.
Oh FFS! Virgin Birth != Immaculate Conception.
I've seen this in numerous places over the last few years. Virgin Birth means there was no sexual intercourse involved in the conception.
Immaculate Conception refers to a particular doctrine of the Catholic Church, which meant that Mary, Jesus' mother, was shielded from original sin when she was conceived, and she was conceived the old fashioned way, with no announcements by any angels.
I've got green eyes, red hair, and I'm left handed. A hundred years ago, I'd have been considered in league with the De
Jesus was the snake all along?
The son of God was actually born to a snake?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
His Noodly Appendage is HERE!
no
So Jesus was in fact a snake.
Does this mean Jesus Christ was Slytherin?
You are conflating "Immaculate Conception" with "Virgin Birth". They're totally different.
Slashdotters: there's still hope!
Hah! Take that, you Darwinist fools!
The term refers to the conception of Mary from her parents, which was "immaculate" in the sense that she was free from the Original Sin since the beginning, and not to her virginal conception of Jesus.
Immaculate Conception != Virgin birth
...a reptile from outer space, like the Queen? It's all so clear now.
</pedant>
Oh, I'm being eaten
By a boa constrictor,
A boa constrictor,
A boa constrictor,
I'm being eaten by a boa constrictor,
And I don't like it--one bit.
Well, what do you know?
It's nibblin' my toe.
Oh, gee,
It's up to my knee.
Oh my,
It's up to my thigh.
Oh, fiddle,
It's up to my middle.
Oh, heck,
It's up to my neck.
Oh, dread,
It's upmmmmmmmmmmffffffffff . . .
Shel Silverstein
Sperm retention is more likely, Boidae have to known to retain sperm for over 18 months before becoming gravid.
"Commoner"?! - You mean "more common". I guess you'll tell me that 'commoner' sounds betterer....
Immaculate conception != virgin birth. Immaculate conception refers to the doctrine in Catholicism, and some other branches of Christianity, that Mary was born without original sin. Mary was otherwise conceived the normal way (i.e., as a result of her two parents having sex).
I'm trying to understand what in TFA means that the snake was born without original sin. It's been a while since I read the Bible, but I seem to remember somewhere near the start that the snake was cast out of the garden of eden for being a bit of a git and had its legs removed. A snake without original sin would therefore have legs.
Can we just say asexual reproduction when we mean asexual reproduction, and leave misquoting the Bible to Christians please?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I guess this explains why there are so many mothafuckin' snakes on this mothafuckin' plane.
Make America grate again!
Comments not working on slashdot?
You couldn't be more wronger!
I watched a doco last night where Stephen Fry claimed female Komodo Dragons were capable of virgin births.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
And apparently female boa constrictors are able to be born without original sin too (what Immaculate Conception really talked about; Virgin Birth is a separate idea).
'Immaculate conception' has nothing to do with virgin birth. It refers to one of the dogmas of the catholic church, that the virgin Mary was conceived (by her parents) without original sin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_conception
At least whoever did the tagging had a clue.
1. genetically modify a female boa constrictor to produce asexually
2. publish the results
3. ???
4. PROFIT !!!
...do not welcome our new asexually reproducing female overlords.
The Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception, not Jesus'.
Written by a commoner.
The concept of original sin is restricted to man, and does not include boa constrictors. Immaculate conception of a boa is therefore nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
We meet again.
The immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, the mother of God. This was not a virgin birth. The doctrine of the immaculate conception states that Mary was conceived w/out the stain of original sin. I would suggest you change your headline.
They also found it happens in genetically engineered dinosaurs, especially on small Costa Rica islands.
You assume that (non-human) animals have sin. I know of nothing in Christian theology that indicates that they do.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
From the BBC article: "In such species, all known examples of babies that are the product of parthenogenesis are male, carrying a ZZ chromosomal arrangement."
But from the MSNBC article: "One other interesting fact about these snakes is that if the offspring can reproduce sexually, all offspring they produce will be female," Booth said. "They are genetically incapable of producing male offspring. Only by their female offspring can males be produced again."
Doesn't that contradict each other?
Immaculate conception and virgin birth are not at all the same thing. This is virgin birth and not immaculate conception.
See Matthew 1
18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. 19 Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").
Snakes are probably the best candidate you can find, for an animal that does have it. A bit more deserving than newborns actually, don't you think?
One that hath name thou can not otter
I thought that referred to Jesus being born without sin rather than to Mary being a virgin.
Which is quite ironic given the part the snake plays in the garden of eden...
Why.
It's all crap anyway because at the time it was fairly standard practice for children born out of wedlock was to claim that they are the children of a God. There was a whole societal mechanism for this centered around certain temples.
According to the modern bible the conception was immaculate at least in part because there was no sex and thus no sinfulness. But saying that there was no father is a well-established way of saying you don't know who the father is. Jesus was a bastard (as per the fucking book, but only if you read it in the sense of the times) and not a literal child of God. He only claims his godhead in the works of Paul.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This prooves that like Komodo Dragons, conceiving child with or without complements of other supplementing Hosts, would prove all Life is a redundant Caste System.
If only a Female is available and no male around, then becomes a woman to conceive a male embryo without foetus stage. ... that's why we have Slashdot.
If a Female and Male are around, then becomes a woman for the male to deposit and complement to an foetus
If only a Male is available and no female around,
You totally missed his point. His point was that the article describes asexual reproduction (i.e. virgin birth), but the headline refers to immaculate conception - which has little to do with virgin birth.
In the biblical sense, immaculate conception was a full generation before the virgin birth. Not 9 months!
This is probably why there was so many dang anacondas and boas in that movie Snakes on the plane! They just kept reproducing.
And it only took them one thousand eight hundred and some odd years to determine this to be the case. Kudo's to taking the time to get it right.
We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful.
—Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854[31]
It's not immaculate conception, it's a virgin birth. They are different. Immaculate conception means born without original sin (as in Mary was born without original sin and thus Christ was too). If you want more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
I know this is a common misunderstanding but it is incorrect. I'm not Catholic, I've just been corrected about it in the past and thought I'd pass on the knowledge.
So you are saying the snake has sinned before?
>I'm not Catholic
Heck, I was raised without religion, and have been an atheist as long as I have known what it means, but I know what immaculate conception really is.
Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
Mary was born without original sin and thus Christ was too
So is this typically the sort of thing that happens when religilous people attempt logic?
"Then again, since snakes don't have original sin..."
Mmmm, I recall a snake being instrumental in creating the fucking original sin in the first place.
So god snapped his fingers and mary was born without sin? One can only wonder why he didn't do so for an entire generation of humans.
Didn't Jeff Goldblum predict this happening in the movie? "Life finds a way" ?
This is why you NEVER mix dinosaur DNA with frogs! "We won't make those same mistakes again." "Of course not, you'll make a whole new set of mistakes!" (The second film had some magnificent sarcastic dialog).
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I can't wait until I'm smart enough to figure it all out.
So the argument is that a man's penis is somehow injecting sin?
You sir, sound like a non-biased source and a biblical scholar! Please teach me more!
Your disbelief is as irrational as you claim believers' beliefs are. There's no way of knowing if, in fifty thousand years of homo sapiens, a human was born through parthenogenesis. This time it's a reptile and thought impossible, a couple of years ago there was a whale born without the aid of a father and that, too, was thought impossible.
I suspect that parthenogenesis in most species is very rare, but may occur in all species given enough time.
Free Martian Whores!
That just depends on who you ask, doesn't it? I'm sure many fundamental Christians would agree with you but I think think some radical Islamist might twist that as "One of the many lies upon which most of the infadels belief system is based".
I mean, a sensationalist headline is a sensationalist headline, but I don't think they were -entirely- in the wrong for using it in the headline. It was the easiest way to convey the idea (Asexual reproduction) without confusing it with what everyone would think of if they had simply said Asexual reproduction (Growing 2 of everything and then splitting).
"...was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin"
So what, all babies are born this way. Stop following religion and read the good book yourself.
I do believe, through my studies of the Bible, that the Catholic understanding of 'Immaculate Conception' and, more fundamentally, 'Original Sin' is incorrect.
Disclaimer: I am not a Christian, nor do I follow any Christ. But if you want an indepth understanding of what is at stake in this ages old battle, far beyond what the vast majority of professing 'Christians' care to study, read on.
When Adam & Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, they 'internalized' sin, as in, tendencies towards evil (before that, they had no 'lust' per say for the tree, it wasn't until Eve was provoked / instigated / manipulated ('You are blind now, because of God, but when you eat this your eyes will be open, and you will become as God'), and even then, that was from an 'outside' source). But once the fruit was eaten, the deed was done, and mankind had internalized the same rebellion and became part of the controversy.
Now, the Catholic version adds this to it:
Because Adam's nature was 'changed' by eating the fruit, he passes on to all posterity that same condemned, guilty, damaged human nature: The human nature that adds to us all not only tendencies towards evil, but also the guilt itself for Adams transgression. In other words, the very first sin you commit is simply being born a 'sinner', before you have any capacity to decide anything for yourself. Everyone is born with this condemned nature, and so if you die before having your infant baptism, you die 'condemned' and either (depending on which catholic you ask) a) Go to hell or B) go to some sort of 'limbo' because you were neither good enough to go to heaven nor bad enough to go to hell.
How you understand 'original sin' will change entirely your understanding of various other elements of the Bible. Now you see, for example, why Catholics have infant baptism- but this even calls into question stuff like Immaculate Conception- because in order for Christ to have been born from a human female, that human female must herself be free from the original sin or else she is going to transfer that degraded fallen human nature (in their mind, 'sin') to her child. This is why the Catholic theology insists that Mary HAD to have been free from Original Sin, so it was actually Mary that was Immaculately Conceived so that she could give birth to a sinless child. This is also why the whole 'saint' thing exists, the idea is that somehow these people did above and beyond what was required for their salvation, and, they can act as a sort of mediator between you and God by applying the 'extra' merits of their good deeds towards your favor. See, since Christ is sinless and holy, they believe that you can't really approach him directly, rather, you need to approach someone else that came 'all the way down' to your level, a fellow human being, someone that can understand the pain you are experiencing and have compassion enough to cough up some of their 'good deeds' to be placed on your list of deeds so that maybe Christ will have compassion on you.
Through my studies of the Bible I believe this Catholic (and spreading, through ignorance) understanding of 'Original Sin' is incorrect.
I believe that there is 'Original Sin', in the sense that when Adam transgressed, he brought all sorts of destruction and death upon the world and all in it, and yes, he did pass on a fallen nature to us in the sense that we have predisposed tendencies towards evil- however, I do not believe that the actual guilt transferred through to us. In other words, God is not holding you personally guilty for Adams transgression. God is holding Adam personally guilty for his own transgressions, and you are being held guilty for your own transgressions.
For example, look at Ezekiel 18:20
So if the actual 'guilt' of Adams sins did not transfer through to us, then it didnt transfer to Mary, if it didnt transfer to Mary she did not need to be born from from Original Sin, and if she didnt need to be born free from it that means that even Christ Himself inherited a fallen nature- which me
Well, to be fair, a female XX chromosome pair cannot produce an XY egg....
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The idea that sex == sin is ridiculous since God basically told people to go out and have loads of sex. Directly.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Just... ugh. Could you possibly know less about what you're talking about?
You mean the whole "Go Forth and Multiply" line?
I don't think he specified Asexually or not, or who knows, maybe he just wanted us to work on our Mad Minute Math skills.
You know what this means, right? We should all start a religion to worship these baby snakes, since they were obviously put on this earth to die for our sins and save all of humanity. Unlike other religions, ours will be a peaceful & accepting one. We will only kill those who disagree with us.
Then again, since snakes don't have original sin
According to the book, snakes are the origin of sin.
Inducing man to have original sin does not give snakes original sin.
Only Roman Catholics believe in this doctrine.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
You assume that your post is on-topic. I see nothing in it that indicates it is.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The shocker is two in the pink one in the stink. This is more like boring girl girl action.
Right now Michael Crichton is regretting that whole "frog dna" thing and Jimi Hendrix, Winston Churchill and Copernicus are getting tired of hearing about it.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
This is a Roman Catholic doctrine that is not supported in the bible. It is an interesting data point in the constellation of Roman Catholic prejudices because it violates doctrinal prinicpiles mentioned throughout the Bible, contradicts the spoken and written words of the prophets, and invalidates, to some degree, the stated mission and objective of Christ's trip to earth. It also belies a heavy handed attempt by the RCC to, as it is oft accused, manipulate the text and meaning of the Bible to denigrate women in general.
The mechanics of Original Sin do not require Mary to be free from sin to conceive Christ. Original Sin was created by Adam, as he knew exactly what he was doing when he ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree. He chose the woman, and disobedience, over God, and in doing so abidcated his authority over the woman and his responsibilies to her and for her. Since then Original Sin has been transmitted to all humanity from our seminal father, Adam, and is continually passed on through the male. The premise that Christ was born from a woman without a human genetic father frees Him from the inheritance of Original Sin and allows Him to live a sinless existence on Earth.
Elevating Mary to a sinless state implies that women bear an additional burden of sin that the text does not state. Consistency in the Bible is maintained without the additional papal decree of MAry's Immaculate Conception. One can only guess at the motivations of the RCC for adding this point, however many view it as an attempt to, once again, lay blame at the feet of Eve for Original Sin thereby imputing an illegitimate guilt debt to women that can be exploited by the church.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
There was something wrong with the comments last night, and all the people posting the Immaculate Conception != Parthenogenesis things didn't see each other's comments. They don't need the karma hits of all of these Redundant mods.
...I think some radical Islamist might twist that...
Just shows exactly how little you understand religion in general and Islam specifically.
Islam does not view the Hebrew bible or the Christian's "New Testament" as anything other than revered holy scriptures which prelude their book, the Qur'an. Muslims follow an even stricter code of nutrition than we Jews do for the exact same reasons, whereas Christians actually deviate from God's original laws to make up their own. Even the crazy Wahabbis do not ignore the fact that Jews and Christians have elevated status among the non-believers, they are actually misinterpreting a very different set of Qur'annic rules which are political in nature rather than having to do with faith and obedience.
Wars happen when ignorant jackasses make up shit to drive their own political agenda. Bin Laden didn't just use religion as an excuse the way George W. Bush did- he was actually following his twisted convictions. If you think Bush's "religion" is any less dangerous, you've got a lot to learn about reality.
Except that according to the Koran, Christians are not infidels.
Like every religion, Islam has it's radical extremists who pick and choose whatever parts of their holy scripture serve their decidedly less than spiritual agenda.
That's what I assume Bluefoxlucid meant too.
God also said you shouldn't "spill your seed in vain" which is where the "Catholic church vs. masturbation & condoms" nonsense comes from. So it's not like he commanded us to have orgies or various other possible interpretations of "have loads of sex." The point was exactly as you said- to multiply and fill the earth.
As for the "sex == sin" thing, that's not a Jewish notion- but rather all about denying the rejection of pleasure. Again- thank the Catholics for that ray of sunshine. The Hebrew bible contains a lot of restrictions (e.g. adultery, bestiality, anal- if you read it that way) but I can't think of a single place where it says you're not allowed to enjoy it when you aren't practicing something forbidden.
Back to multiplying- given how we've pretty much overpopulated the planet already and infant mortality is dropping even among the poorest nations, it's obviously time to reinterpret all those laws under modern conditions. I'm wouldn't advise holding one's breath until this new pope does that, nor for the more conservative Rabbis in my own faith to realize having ten children today is morally wrong.
Bravo, whoever you are, AC... I AM a follower of Christ and, while I am not a bible scholar, both my father and brother are. Parent comment is an exquisite description of the confusion at hand regarding 'original sin' and 'immaculate conception'... and the origins of these doctrines within Catholic history.
If you read the bible it is pretty clear why, God is a bit of a dick.
"Immaculate Conception" is not a phrase that appears in the Bible, and even if it was, misusing it, unless the misuse was in a purported quote from the bible, wouldn't be misquoting the Bible.
The mistake here is making an reference to inapplicable Catholic doctrine, not misquoting the Bible.
So, what happens when the offspring of this snake breed with a male? What DNA is lost in a female-only "clone" type reproduction?
It's all just chemistry. Do we know enough to know that an X chromosome can't become a Y chromosome? There are only four "letters" in the DNA code.
Free Martian Whores!
Hell, most people still think Jesus was crucified through the palms.
Such as myself. Over the past week, I've been researching the differences in doctrine between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream Christianity. The JWs currently believe the stake on which Jesus was crucified didn't have a patibulum (crossbeam) and that Jesus instead died with his hands over his head. I came across numerous anti-JW sites, including one page mentioning studies on cadavers showing two holes in the bone structure of the human palm that are strong enough to hold up the body's weight.
There are four base pairs arranged in sequences that ravel and unravel according to enzymes in the cytoplasm. These sequences open in strips called "Genes" which themselves attract complementary base pairs to produce miniature copies of DNA strands (copies of genes) which are called "RNA." The RNA goes into some kind of node thing I forget what it's called.. it's basically a giant zipper mechanism that attracts amino acids and protein fragments (chains of amino acids) to assemble proteins.
There are only two values in binary code. Can a 15 megapixel image of Brittany Spears' vagina turn into a copy of Basket Case in high quality Ogg Vorbis? ... sure, if you have a carefully constructed file to XOR it with, and a determined process to do so intentionally. The code on the X and Y chromosomes is not a slight truncation or alteration; these things are completely different.
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Raptor Mary?
Sand's overrated... it's just tiny little rocks.
Yet another retcon of which I was unaware. Thanks for sharing.
Snakes are probably the best candidate you can find, for an animal that does have it. A bit more deserving than newborns actually, don't you think?
I thought all it said was that it was Satan in the form of a snake, and not an actual one? Poor bastards got their legs removed for something they didn't even do... musta been one hell of a costume.
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
You're forgetting about the first generation.
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
Widespread misunderstanding of catholic mythology. Immaculate conception is the conception of a human being within its mother WITHOUT the stain of original sin. The goddess virgin mary, mother of jesus was the only case of immaculate conception i am aware of. But of course, all reptiles are born free of original sin, is it not so? that is why they do not need to have a religion.
True, but consider your statement "Can a 15 megapixel image of Brittany Spears' vagina turn into a copy of Basket Case in high quality Ogg Vorbis? ... sure, if you have a carefully constructed file to XOR it with, and a determined process to do so intentionally".
It comes down to the Infinite monkey theorem. Homo sapiens has been around for well over fifty thousand years; not infinity, but a damned long time in comparison to a human lifetime. Yes, the odds are against it, but it may be that the odds are against life itself. We certainly haven't found any indication of it anywhere but Earth yet.
Free Martian Whores!
since snakes don't have original sin, maybe every snake conception is immaculate.
Wait.. wasn't a snake behind the whole "go ahead and eat the fruit, Eve" idea? No free passes for snakes on Original Sin!
No, it doesn't work that way. You asked if an X chromosome could become a Y chromosome. What you are asking is if strawberry jello can become solid gold. Yes there's a path; no it doesn't happen without a ton of energy input and intentional control. They are not similar and there is not a killswitch mechanism that trips over such a change.
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"Two or three years ago it was just another snake cult, now... they're everywhere." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082198/
It's not like abrahamic areas managed to avoid directly associating some animals with "evil", one way or another. See: cats; or water animals without scalds (what else can this be about if not some ancient evil?)
One that hath name thou can not otter
Do we know enough to know that an X chromosome can't become a Y chromosome?
While that's highly unlikely, it's also a "straw man" that's not at all necessary to the discussion.
It's well known in medical circles that humans and other species sometimes produce XX males and XY females. The details of how it happens aren't quite known yet, but there's some evidence in the scientific literature.
It's true that XX males and XY females tend to be intermediate in their secondary sexual characteristics, though they are often within the "normal" range.
There have been a few disputes over this in professional sports, mostly cases of XY females who are physically larger and stronger than the typical female. When their genetic makeup is discovered, people often try to get them barred from professional sports on the grounds that they're "not really female". So far, the courts have upheld their rights to compete, on the grounds that if you have female reproductive organs, you're legally female, no matter how big or strong you might be. (And there are XX females that are large and strong, too.)
(Anyone know of a case in which an XY female was successfully barred from sports competition? I'd think it has to have happened, but I don't recall reading about it.)
In any case, even if Jesus was parthenogenetically produced, and was an XX male, it wouldn't imply any sort of magical effect was at work. Such things happen in a number of mammals. It also happens in birds, but their genetics make XX individuals male and XYs female. Thus, domestic turkeys are known to occasionally hatch from unfertilized eggs. They are always XX, and they're male. (So maybe Jesus was actually a turkey? ;-)
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
is now the serpentarium.
Just... ugh. Could you possibly know less about what you're talking about?
Sure, I could know so little that I won't even log in to produce a record.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"