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Who's Pirating Game of Thrones, and Why?
TheGift73 writes "In a few hours a new episode of Game of Thrones will appear on BitTorrent, and a few days later between 3 and 4 million people will download this unofficial release. Statistics gathered by TorrentFreak reveal that more people are downloading the show compared to last year, when it came in as the second most downloaded TV-show of 2011. The number of weekly downloads worldwide is about equal to the estimated viewers on HBO in the U.S., but why? One of the prime reasons for the popularity among pirates is the international delay in airing. In Australia, for example, fans of the show have to wait a week before they can see the latest episode. So it's hardly a surprise that some people are turning to BitTorrent instead. And indeed, if we look at the top countries where Game of Thrones is downloaded, Australia comes out on top with 10.1% of all downloads (based on one episode). But delays are just part of the problem. The fact that the show is only available to those who pay for an HBO subscription doesn't help either."
Oh my goodness, because I live in Australia I have to wait a week before seeing a TV show? How do I manage?
Sometimes I can't quite believe the world we live in.
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
... but I get busy doing something most Sunday nights or forget to watch it, so I usually start the download Monday morning and watch it after work.
It's not pirating if you're time shifting.
But at the moment we have cable data only ($53/month or some-such) and upgrading to cable with HBO would be the better part of another $100 per month.
I seriously look forward to a time when the last-mile people can GTFO and allow me to pay for the specific content that I want to buy.
G.
I wonder why companies like HBO haven't followed suit with other broadcasting companies that air the show a few days later on the internet with commercials. I'd see this as a win-win. The subscribers get it first hand, and everyone else gets it the next day + commercials. The whole week-delay, however, is archaic, and un-excusable.
I'd be happy to pay to download or stream new episodes, but I live outside the US so that is not an option. Considering the pirated version is in 1080p if I want, with no ads and the ability to pause and watch whenever I want just makes it easier.
Stop using scarcity with something that is an unlimited resource.
Stop forcing people to pay for packages. Stop forcing people to pay for networks. Stop using the limited countries mindset, those are artificial political boundaries.
Start making your shows available to everyone world-wide at the same second. Start asking for reasonable prices per episode, not a higher price than buying the DVD box set which you sell after a season is over.
Stop being dumbasses and start being smart. People want to see your shows, they just won't jump through your stupid, mindless 1950's hoops anymore.
The Oatmeal has already demonstrated the problem perfectly.
I don't download Game of Thrones. I watched the first few episodes, saw that it was a soap opera trying to gain legitimacy with a few sword and sorcery components, and gave it up. But one reason to download is that you get to see the film on your terms, at a date and time of your choosing, instead of being locked into a broadcasting schedule. And, no commercials, but the first part is the biggest I think. If these shows were available on demand, instead of trying to force a TV paradigm that's largely dead these days, there may be fewer downloads.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
...But I didn't realize it until I left. Half of all the youtube videos I try to watch are blocked for one reason or another, Hulu, Netflix, and my Amazon Instant accounts were all out of commission, and iTunes was pretty much my last resort to stream content. I hate iTunes. I also hate trying to stream videos I own on Amazon through a proxy. Suddenly BitTorrent looks mighty friendly to a boredom-induced insanity.
Because we live in a society where everyone deserves everything. And no puppies are killed if you do download it. Solving piracy is pretty simple to do. Instead of threatening to sue, you send them a package with a dead puppy in it.
live in japan so cant get hbo. would buy the dvds but they dont sell them here. would be even more inclined to buy them if they had japanese language and subtitles. but because the show is so interesting to me and i feel its moving too slow for my tastes i have purchased the offical "hbo licensed" books which are just reprints of the normal books. so i guess in a way i'm format shifting which is perfectly legal.
In Australia, our TV networks show an incredible amount of greed and disdain in regard to popular TV series from the US. They constantly shift the time and day on which the show airs. They frequently leave gaps of several weeks between episodes (see Big Bang Theory) in order not to compete with other networks which may be launching a new show expected to dominate in the ratings. The more popular the show the more advertisements they pack in - sometimes up to 6 ad breaks in a single 21 minute show! The ad breaks are now so aggressive that they sometimes cut off punch lines (see the Simpsons). And sometimes they even play the damn episodes out of order (Firefly and American Gothic)! And they wonder why we go and download them where we can actually enjoy the show. F you Australian TV networks. You have no-one to blame but yourselves.
It's not about having to wait. If the issue were just having to wait then people who now keep saying they would buy DVDs if they only cost $3 would wait the 18 months that it takes for big titles to end up in the clearance bins.
It's about the social network. In our increasingly socially connected world - one which even Microsoft is going to push further by making Windows 8 not about Windows, or the apps, but about sharing everything with your friends - if you don't watch Game of Thrones within, say, 2 weeks, you're already going to be bombarded with spoilers from people you follow on twitter, your friends on facebook, the people in your Google+ circle, etc.
The more people end up on these centralized social networks rather than their own fragmented pieces (Orkut, Hyves, whatever), the more people get exposed to that phenomenon.
You can liken this to some people who watch sports just because that's what their colleagues are likely to talk about at the watercooler, and they don't want to feel left out by not knowing a single thing about what's being referred to.
So if people on your social networks are discussing the latest episode of Game of Thrones, it's not so much the issue that you may only be able to see it (legally) a week later. It's that by the time that week is done, if you were to try talking about it it'd be like saying "The cake is a lie!" and "Bruce Willis is dead people!". Your entire discussion is old news and hardly anybody will want to engage you.
That may not matter to you, particularly. I certainly don't give a flying brick. But to many, many people - it matters.
The media companies would do well to recognize this, but they would rather negotiate large sums with foreign distributors, networks, etc. According to their accountants, any lost sales as a result are insignificant compared to the lost sales, contracts, etc. if they were to try and offer their content directly to any and all who are interested for a low price.
There's a very good reason Australia is so high on the list.
In Australia we have 1 viable option for traditional pay tv (ie. not streamed content). The way the company's plans are structured though is to gouge as much money as possible out of the consumer. They've taken "packaging" and charging to an unreasonable level. For example if I want just the basic rubbish channels and some sport, I'm up for $92 per month. If I want the channel with game of thrones (Showtime), add $16 per month. If I want the sci fi channel ontop of that, add another $16 a month. So that's before you even get into debates about how long it takes for shows to even be released over here.
Australians aren't idiots, and we've had (and still have today) a considerable history of being charged alot more money for media than most major developed nations. Even for our own media, for example at the moment there's an outcry about an Australian artist "Gotye - Somebody That I Used to Know" and that fact that Australians are charged twice as much on Itunes for the single than Americans are.
I'd honestly subscribe to pay tv if itwas offered under reasonable terms, but my family simply can't afford $100+ a month when we have reasonable free-to-air TV available to us. I'm not saying I advocate pirating it either - I'm just saying I understand why many Australians are so disillusioned with the media companies.
In some parts of the world HBO edits out the naughty bits. Sad but true.
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
In my country the delay would probably be around a year plus there's a good chance that we'd have to watch a poorly dubbed German version instead of the original English thus there's really no other option except piracy.
It is a massive hit because it is a great show with an even better story and the options to watch it while paying for it are poor at best! This is a ridiculously large market that is being totally ignored by the army in suits who cling to what they believe to be the reality of their current income. STEAM - start selling this and the rest of you wake up! I will buy and millions like me will also, do not make a company with minimal rights to distribute a partial list of shows nobody wants that or cares. Take multiple large established download clients and use them ALL with no exclusivity and you win, remember "When you play the game of thrones, either you win or you die". Just saying.
I have been a continuously active subscriber of HBO for at least several years, including all the times during which Game of Thrones aired. I bought the BluRay of season 1 the day it was released and anticipate doing the same for all future seasons. I have access to HBO Go (and like it, especially for the bonus content.)
Yet even with all that, downloading is still the way I like to watch. I watch most TV on computer, for starters. Sometimes the timing works out better for me to watch the captured east coast feed rather than wait a little longer for my west coast airing. And while HBO Go has some nice features, it typically has streaming issues and/or decreased quality during peak demand as top shows are airing, while conversely BitTorrent works great at peak demand (for me at least.) I also enjoy the random access to scenes and replayability, both of which I'll probably make good use of during the next several days since its such a great show.
Anyway, just more examples of why "pirating" is not always primarily or even at all about avoiding paying for content.
We know that the cable and satellite companies have a monopolistic ball grab on you. I love some of what you do and would like to give you monies. But the means by which that I am forced to use to get your hard work, (like said assclown franchise locking "service" providers), want me to subscribe to their "packages" so very bad.
I schluffed off their subscriptions, only using their "high speed internet". But they know we'll use it to watch your programs that we download for free like little commie criminals, so they want to "cap" us so we don't download too much! "Cap" has a jaunty ring to it, doesn't it. Like a night cap! But its not for lack of trying!
Creators of television programs, I want to give you monies, shinies, ducats, for your hard work. Let me download it, as soon as its aired. Even if you're soulless overlords like NBC, Syfy, etc., get a cut. Here, I'll address them directly:
Soulless overlords, please let me buy reasonably priced shows I want to watch, a la cart. Take a moment whilst you sit upon throne of blood and bone. Raise your hand, not to cause the death shrieks of cancelled shows we like, or spew forth more reality show afterbirth from your gaping, fetid maw; allow me to download and keep, episodes of Game of Thrones, Parks and Recreation. I would make offering. No animal burning, though.
Who knows? You might, even then, squint and raise a claw? Hoof? Mandible? to your countless dead eyes and gaze in wonder at the brilliant light of realization: Where there was once a cancelled Firefly or Farscape, they might yet be reborn in a righteous blaze of countless micro transactions the likes of which even Kickstarter.com hasn't seen.
It's an ancient technology, still used by the elderly and the feeble-minded to obtain single-media entertainment and unsourced information in a serial, time-oriented fashion. It's the precursor to the on-demand random access entertainment and information sources we have today.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
This season is a major let down. Too many sub plots, not enough time. Changing to someone else every 5 minutes has gotten tedious and really isn't making for a smooth flowing story line.
No. The problem is that you cannot obtain this show without also paying for every other HBO show, and also paying for a cable subscription and DVR. If you need a car analogy, it's like having to buy a stocked dealership when all you want is a Toyota Prius.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Aussies have to wait a week to see a new show? Well, be glad you're not in dubbed Europe. You may rest assured that you will wait at the very least a YEAR until you get to see a show. That's because next to negotiations, you have to wait until they're done dubbing the show... and dubbing it BADLY. There are a few webpages dedicated to translation bloopers and joke explanations so you finally have a chance to even fathom just WHAT the authors wrote when (not if) you just can't figure out what the fuck's going on.
It's also "only" a year, mind you, if, and only if, a network here decides to pick up the show. In other words, it's one year from the moment they actually WANT to show it. That is not necessarily a year after it's broadcast in its country of origin.
And now think about this: You have internet access, and you use it regularly. There is a show out there that you watch religiously and it depends on suspense and NOT knowing what's going on next week. Think LOST, or worse, Bab5. Now imagine you're watching the first season of Bab5 while everyone on the 'net is discussing the outcome of the Vorlon/Shadow war.
Can you see why people download shows?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
as if you wouldn't do the exact same thing in their shoes.
The fact that you'd act differently if you were in another situation (in this case, theirs) is irrelevant to whether or not you're correct.
You would.
You don't know him, and you don't know that.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I watched the first episode of Game of Thrones. The first 10 minutes were interesting. The rest was unmitigated garbage. I can't imagine breaking even the most stupid of laws just to watch even a minute of this crap.
Since HBO refuses to allow me to view any of their content on any 3rd party service such as iTMS until AFTER the DVD release, I have no other choice.
Sure, it may "technically" be wrong, but since HBO wants to try to fuck me in the ass with HBO Go, which requires servitude to Comcast or other greedy cable operators, I see them as trying to force me to buy products from companies I refuse to buy from -- which is a form of extortion -- and as such need to push back against their greed and cronyism.
I HBO were to remove the requirement for the Comcast ass-rape to access HBO GO and offer it at a reasonable price level (say $50/month) then HBO would get my money. But they've made it clear they are staunchly anti net-neutrality and will not participate in a free and open media market where the consumer can decide how and where to access media content legally.
So from the sounds of it, you think waiting a week is reasonable.
How about waiting a month?
How about waiting a couple of months?
How about waiting a year?
Before pirating in Australia, it used to be a regular thing to have to wait up to a year, before you'd get the latest movies and TV. Even then, we'd only get a small fraction of what was in the US.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
It is not available in P.R. China through any authorized channel. Even if it were, it would be edited to nothing. The real odd thing to me is that it has recently been featured in the national student newspaper (21'st Century) in a two page spread . The article was mostly an attempt to explain the program and to help students understand the names.
What I found interesting was that there was a full two page article on a program that is not even officially available and contains a significant amount of material that would be censored even if it were available. All that being said, it is not popular with the Chinese students that I know. The plot is too complicated for the male students and it is too violent, and overtly sexual, for the female students. However, it seems to be popular with many of the westerners here; further, considering that the article was written, I expect it is popular with some Chinese, just not here.
No, fans of something can't do all these things. Maybe someone without any feelings could, but normal people can't. Some have it with a tv show, others with Diablo 3 and some with reading slashdot, getting an icecream, going to church, or just seeing their partners. People love things and love is a powerful emotion that will subject you when it comes for you. These things make us humans.
I already own the paper version. I just download it so I have a copy that plays on my other devices.
...and I torrent because I'm rarely at home and torrent downloads are higher quality and easier to put on a big screen than HBO GO, which is often unusable because Comcast's user authentication is hit-or-miss whether or not it will accept my information. No joke, I've had half a dozen comcast calls about this issue. I stopped calling after I saw how good the quality of the torrents were.
My kingdom for a donkey!
No, it's they can't avoid forums until after all episodes of the season have ended, as they are always a week behind the series, and thus unable to participate in the fan discussions of any of the episodes until after the season has completed. Of course by that point the major fan discussion of the prior episodes will be considered old and out of date.
Thus they have a very legitimate complaint.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
no, 1 week lag, then same wait as everyone else.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You're describing addiction, not fandom.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
You can get books 1-4 as a set for $20 right now ($10 second hand on ebay).
Yes, and I can buy a set of dominoes for 50c from a garage sale and throw them at cats if want as well. Doesn't mean I want to.
You would get spoilers from people who've read the books in any case. The solution is therefore to have separate forums for those discussing the books, and those discussing the show. Having separate forums for Australian audiences would logically follow.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
The one show that I do download each episode of, six days a week, is MasterChef Australia. Best damn cooking/contest show out there. I torrent it because I live in the US and TEN (the AU network) blocks video from non-AU IP addresses. GoT? I've never seen it, so happy to trade them for it.
Anyway, if you want to watch a good cooking show that isn't 'Housewives' with food, or Gordon Ramsey yelling, catch MasterChef AU. Real people that actually cheer on their competitors.
(Tried MKR but we couldn't get that interested in it, don't know why.)
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
Product placement: Joffrey sipping an ice cold Coke while abusing prostitutes? Cersei sneaking off to use her CVS-branded paternity test kit? They're just not being very imaginative about how they market to pirates.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Forums are already being spoiled by those who have read the books. Applying whatever solution is used to mitigate that problem to the problem of Australians watching on a time delay would be both logical and trivial.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I've offered to pay extra for their internet based service. Unfortunately, it's simply not available without buying cable, which is something I won't do. I have no desire to have cable when my Roku and Apple Tv do a better job for a fraction of the price. So I guess I can live without HBO, it's just a shame, that's all.
This signature intentionally left blank.
You're an idiot.
Day 0 - Episode 1 shows in the US - start avoiding forums you like to frequent.
Day 7 - You get episode 1, US gets episode 2.
Thus, avoiding forums you like must continue for 10 weeks if you don't want to see spoilers for the show. There ARE things happening in the show that did not happen in the books. They are more irritating to me than interesting, but I can see that a) some people might like them, b) the audience for the show is much wider than that of the books.
Yes, and I can buy a set of dominoes for 50c from a garage sale and throw them at cats if want as well. Doesn't mean I want to.
The complaint is over the time lag, which is a matter of convenience. I provided the books as an example of a more convenient alternative. You're saying this is unacceptable. Let me guess, you don't read books?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
$2.99 for an HD episode on iTunes. Stop the FUD. I haven't checked, but there are probably other purchase options as well besides HBO/cable subscriptions.
Let me put on my suit and think like an evil, profit driven businessman. I have 3-4 million pirated downloads per episode x 20 episodes to date = 80 million pirated episodes. Let's go for $2.00/episode (Amazon rate) and assume about a 50% conversion (people that would pay versus pirate if it was easy to get). That's still $80 Million in cold hard cash (ok, it's electronic, but you get the idea). I am gobsmacked that HBO simply walks away from this easy cash all to protect possible DVD and network sales. Do both! Rake in the cash from tech-savvy viewers while the show is hot and then pick up the remainder with DVDs. I'm I missing something somewhere?
What is the difference? Except for the fan trying to convert others and the addicted trying to keep it to himself ;)
An Australian audience sub-forum would solve this problem.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
.. and why would you want to discuss the show with Americans anyway?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I simply don't agree with the concept of paying money for digital goods. I don't recognize the legitimacy of the construct known as "intellectual property" or copyright and since there exists a mechanism in this age to reproduce digital information infinitely at nearly no cost I have no qualms or ethical hangups about taking as much as I can.
The rules of physical objects simply don't transfer to the internet. It's immoral to attempt to impose those rules on the higher plain of existence of pure thought.
And I fully recognize that there's no current method for these big, multi-million dollar, productions to get made if everyone thought and acted as I do. So be it. If such projects can't be made and distributed ethically then they shouldn't be made at all.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
So explain to me the "logic" of how avoiding forums for *one* week is an effective solution to the problem.
So you think that reading a book is a more convenient alternative to watch a 1 hour tv episode? I'm not sure what you think convenient means. Let me guess, you believe that books make you a more sophisticated and intelligent person, whereas TV dulls the mind? As it happens I read a lot of books, but I like TV too.
I know you're just trolling, but seriously? I can say "It's just a stupid ..." about practically anything people enjoy watching or participating in. (I'm often tempted to say it about major league sporting events, myself. It's just a bunch of adults playing a game originally designed for kids, kicking a ball around, and getting paid huge salaries for it. How stupid! Can't people get a life?!")
Others would surely tell all of us to get a life, because we're sitting around reading stories on Slashdot.
I'm not really a TV watcher myself, but I've seen a few episodes of Fringe, and thought they were pretty interesting. I started downloading more episodes as I was able to get ahold of decent copies of them. I haven't really had the time to watch more of them, but it's nice knowing I have them on my hard drive, so I can eventually get around to checking them out if and when the opportunity arises.
The point I guess I'm trying to make is -- people can't constantly be in "go, go, go" mode, trying to actively do or achieve things. We all need downtime too, and I'm not just talking about sleep. Entertainment is crucial to a fulfilled life, and it takes many different forms. Not everyone likes the same things, but that's why there are so many options around. I find that half the time, I'd rather play a video game than watch a TV show -- but others get *nothing* out of gaming. So someone following these shows (and probably discussing them with friends too) would certainly be motivated to get new episodes in a timely manner.
My wife and I didn't pirate it, but did finally purchase the entire first season when it appeared on iTunes. This gave us good quality, and commercial free. For a hell of a lot less money than cable and HBO runs in our area. But, now here's of course why so many pirate instead.... we had to wait over a year to -PAY- HBO for the show. If we'd been in any rush to see it (Which the Networks seem to be desperate to have people rush to see their content, given how hard they try to get people to have cable to see it the day it airs) we would have had no choice except to pirate it. Now for us, we weren't in a rush we've got plenty of other entertainment so their show is welcome to sit on the back burner until they make it available. Except here's the thing, now that season 2 is on we're again waiting... which is no problem for us, but the obvious thing would be for HBO to make season 2 episodes available immediately after airing on iTunes. If they did, we'd again be paying for it already! Instead I guess we have to wait until the season 2 dvd's are available... which means that we may not purchase at all if by that time we've found something else to watch or do.
The moral of the story: If you want people to pay for it, then SELL it to them. If you drag it out and keep telling people they can't buy, then yeah they're going to either steal it, or just ignore you.
1. I don't own a TV
2. I want to see the original English version
Convenient as in can be picked up anywhere and anytime. You don't need a power source. Convenient as in about $30 for 4 more years worth of shows that you can read and digest as many times as you want, at the pace you like. I can understand the convenience of a book on tape vs reading, for when you're driving or working. Explain how the books aren't convenient compared to the show.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
.. and why would you want to discuss the show with Americans anyway?
Good question. Why don't you post it on slashdot.org.au and find out?
If I were running HBO then I would be seriously preparing for the post-cable apocalypse.
I would be preparing to do everything the OP said not because "I am a nice guy" but out of concern for my company's continued survival in a changing technology landscape.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Why do all the cable TV networks, and producers, and actors, and writers and all the people associated with movies and such think that they deserve to be wealthy for what is essentially putting on a puppet show? Lives don't depend on what they do. Nations will not rise or fall on the next episode of Family Guy. Far less of far less importance rides on *any* form of entertainment than, say, the guy who keeps the local electrical substation in my part of Brooklyn running. So why the *F* does the schmuck producer in Hollywood think he gets to make many multiples more than the doctor who saves his kid's life?
It's high time that every last piece of work in the entertainment industry gets cut down to size. (Of course, the same must also be said of bankers and politicians, but that's a different conversation.) It would be super if we had governments that would cooperate on that score and end copyright, but since that's not gonna happen piracy will have to be the vehicle to get it done.
So pirate away, world! Pirate like the dickens. Take a pledge to pirate every blessed piece of music, film, TV show, and what have you for 5 years until the RIAA, MPAA, and all the rest of their ilk are gone for good.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Some people are going to pirate your shit no matter what. They either don't have the money to pay for it, just download everything because they can, think they are making a statement or whatever. Those people you ignore, because there's shit you can do about them.
However there's another group of people who will give you their money for a product instead of pirate it, if a few things are true:
1) It needs to be worth what you what. Worth is, of course, an individual measure and some people aren't reasonable but most are. If you sell them TV at a reasonable price, they'll buy it, if you want a shit ton per episode, they'll go elsewhere.
2) It needs to be easily and quickly available. It needs to be there when they want it. Not when you think it is best for market segmentation, when they want it. When they look they need to find right away.
3) It needs to be available without too much bullshit. This is important and what the comic really demonstrates. Someone needs to go and be able to buy it just by clicking "buy" on Amazon or iTunes or Steam or whatever various service is relevant.
If any of these get too out of whack they may well say "Fuck it, I'll just pirate it." That option is always there and you are stupid if you think you can get rid of it. There's been a massive war on it, utterly failed, as such your shit will be there too.
So keep the stuff available, the bullshit level low and the PRICE REASONABLE and you'll see online sales. Start to have the idea that there is the One True Way(tm) to watch your shit, and people will just elect to nab it elsewhere.
So first off: You know these shows are based off of a series of books, right? The first one shares the name: A Game of Thrones.
I've not watched the series, but all the things I hear people chattering about are all, well, how the books are. Just like this. One feature of the books is they don't seem to have a main character. They have multiple characters that you follow, and you jump from character to character. Also, as the series goes on, more and more characters get introduced and the sub-plots get to monkey-fuck retarded levels.
Having to fragment discussions into regional sub-forums just to accommodate a single TV show is clearly ridiculous.
That's not love, that's marketing.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
i do have a subscription to hbo, and have for over 10 years (since the original airing of band of brothers). the reason that i also download it is to have a hard copy of it. if they would just make is super easy to dump the stuff from my dvr to my pc, it'd be a non-issue. sure, i could buy the blu-rays when they come out, but they already got my money. i was able to capture the analog stream back in the day without issue and to vcr before that. quality of product, lack of degradation, and bonus revenue streams have no relevancy in the discussion. the ball is in their court.
...
People do discuss popular culture outside of designated forums. That, and the sub-forum will torrent it, which brings us back to the discussion at hand.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
It would be a solution to spoilers, and it would be trivial to implement. What's really ridiculous is complaining that Americans are spoiling the show for Australians when those who have read the books are spoiling it for everyone at the same time in the same forum.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
The solution is therefore to have separate forums for those discussing the books, and those discussing the show. Having separate forums for Australian audiences would logically follow.
Segregate the internet because it's convenient for media companies?
Dumb ideas like that are why piracy is flourishing and Big Media is fighting a losing battle.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Ummm, no. Not the current season. Season 1 only. People who don't have cable/HBO have no legal option for purchasing the current season of Game of Thrones.
Explain how the books aren't convenient compared to the show.
TV shows or movies have much higher "bitrate". That is, if you made a movie from a book, it would be faster (for most people) to watch the show than to read the book.
Also, at least for me, reading a paper book is less convenient physically than watching a movie. The books usually are made so they close by themselves unless I put a heavy object on them (I use an old battery from a UPS), but then I cannot read the text that is under that object, so I have to move it to read that portion of the text. Then lift it, turn the page and put it back down. On the other hand, I can just start the movie/TV show on my PC or VCR and watch it while doing nothing (or eating, or putting some device back together after repairing it or something else).
Because sending the episode to Australian broadcasters, via this new fangled thing called the internet, would take longer than an hour, and certainly would not be available for immediate viewing.
See, this is the problem with people applying MicroEcon's market segmentation when they don't understand economics.
I am John Hurt.
An entire season behind. And you can rest assured the cost in other markets is a lot more than $2.99. US iTunes store prices are way less than anywhere else.
Seriously, its awesome
I think you've stumbled upon something, and no, it's not the $3 per episode deal. It's the merchandize. Why not just give away the TV series for free to everyone, then sell physical goods to the biggest fans? Maybe sell DVDs with special features or extended scenes, if you want to go that route, but give the fans something extra they'll be willing to pay for.
Bands rarely make that much money from CD sales, but when they put on a live concert and sell tickets and T-shirts, their biggest fans give them boatloads of cash. Then those fans wear those T-shirts and talk to people about those concerts, which converts new people to fans.
-mrxak
Onions Will Kill You
I don't know this show and am not interested in viewing it. However I can think of two models that will work.
MODEL I:
Copy iTunes or Mubi.
But it probably will not deliver enough viewers to fund the series by itself.
So, on to...
MODEL II:
1. Ideally create one global launch date for all languages/regions and stick to it. This will provide maximum social networking and minimal spoilers. This would require sales to other markets starting after the pilot is made but before a whole season has been created. In other words, a new global sales strategy. So talk to a global ad agency. The other option is to make one global launch date per language, but you may get pirate versions I would imagine.
2. Insert reasonable number of advertisements into market-specific versions, e.g. EN-US, EN-UK, EN-AU, etc.
3a. If you can just provide speedy downloads from your site and akamai then do it. But that is going to be awfully expensive.. unless you have an amazing contract with ISPs all over the world already.
3b. Instead, create a bittorrent for each format, with many seeders of the appropriate version within each region's territory. This way Australians can download the Australian version with Australian advertisements fastest due to having many seeds provisioned within its continental LAN. A few college kids could do this, but if you ask the ad agency to do it, they will charge you the same as or slightly less than the cost if you had hired akamai.
Video quality should be 720p or higher. The easier the delivery is made, the less important and moralistic will any other pirate versions (undoubtedly somebody will edit out ads and make an uninterrupted version. Maybe the honest version will only have ads at beginning end and same points as TV version, so people may still prefer it and give back to the creators.)
4. Create websites and social networking to advertise and link it all up. Word of mouth / magazine / twitter all linking there. Websites point to the torrents. Also sell via app stores, amazon, etc. Try to get fans to sign up. They can read blogs, teasers, special cilps on the website, post in forums, ask questions and maybe even help guide the series. Imagine if Joss Whedon was doing this.
5. Offer extra things to purchase, maybe Amazon wants to do a special product deal.
6. Offer DVD, Blu-Ray box sets and 1080p files as standalones or full season download via bittorrent or app stores. These products have no advertisements and will include special extras like making of clips, interviews with director and actors, printable pamphlets, maybe desktop wallpapers, 3d printable models, suscriptions to follow the different actors, blogs by the fashion designers or whatever. Pricing of the collections should however be the same price or cheaper than the current box sets if buying the digital version since no physical distribution is then necessary.
7. $$$
it's like having to buy a stocked dealership when all you want is a Toyota Prius.
A little, it's also like having to pay extra for a Prius because it factors in their failed Echo model. Cable is bundled to spread the risk of producing shows. Even selling it in whole months is a form of bundling. If individual shows were available this would introduce volatility to the point where you'd start seeing more shows cancelled halfway through a season and so on. Nevertheless, it's the consumer-preferred model and hopefully it prevails.
It need to be available as an aggregator or automatic service, too. I didn't realize how much this mattered until I had DirecTV, Hulu+, iTunes, and Netflix all at the same time. It's a royal PITA to find your stuff and then download it and watch it (or pray that the streaming service will work).
Then I got Sickbeard and none of it matters any more - who, what, where - I just tell it the shows I want, it passes them to sabnzbd, sorts and saves them into Plex-friendly folders, and when I want to watch something I go to one place. Would I pay a subscription price for that (I'm already paying for usenet, though it's a pittance)? Yeah, if it were cheap. $1 a show isn't going to cut it. Maybe $0.50 a show as a single, $1-2 a month (weekly vs daily content) while it's running. And I want it on my computer where I control it. Not streamed, so I can't see it if I'm someone else is surfing the net. Not time limited - there are times when I may not get to see TV for 2-3 weeks (or longer) at a time. Not DRM'd so I can't re-code it for a portable device to take with me.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I want to pay for Game of Thrones. I'm proud to pay for great TV, music, books, and news.
HBO won't let me. I'm standing here with dollars in my fist yelling "TAKE MY MONEY", but they won't do it, because they insist on the ludicrous, outdated concept of "subscription" and "scheduled programming".
tl;dr bc i dont have hbo
I pirate it cause I'm not going to spend $25 per episode to watch it. It's a good show. But it ain't THAT good.
Is that honest enough?
What's a Uhunter2 client?
Karnal
Disclaimer, this post is probably going to offend some people.
I don't care. Really... I mean it. I had given some thought to trying to be say this delicately, but then I realized that there really wasn't much of a point.
So to that end... why bother pirating a TV series at all?
I mean, everything on television that is actually worth watching (and there certainly isn't very much of it) is more than likely going to be worth waiting a few months for to get the entire season on DVD.
But oh noes! Then you can't watch it right now! Really? Is your life so devoid of anything with meaning and direction that you can't pull yourself away from yet another mindless TV show? That, to me, doesn't say that the TV series is necessarily any good... all it does is speak volumes about people's priorities and lack of self-restraint.
That said... given this show's obvious popularity, I do think it's incredibly self-defeating of HBO to not put the episodes up on iTunes at least within a few days of airing. They could stand to make a killing.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Your option, though, is illegal.
I am offended that the majority of the money I spend would go to subsidizing all the shit programming that is aired on all these other channels.
Even more offensive is the paid programming. It seems my provider doesn't air anything late at night when I can actually watch TV. Most of the channels are either listed as "Off air" or "Paid Programming", which is some pathetic attempt to sell me a new folding pocket knife, blender, or push-up bra. As if commercials within shows weren't bad enough, late night viewer selection is greatly limited to hour long commercials.
TV broadcast pricing is the most common bundle scheme going. Other industries try it, like the insurance companies that will not sell you Liability Insurance without also including coverage for tools, office supplies, and everything else except computer equipment, which must be purchased separately. I'd like to only purchase the products or services that I want and the market rate for those products and services. I don't want to pay for shows I will not watch, nor thousands of dollars worth equipment insurance for equipment I do not have.
Thank you for the excellent example of the logical fallacy known as a False Analogy.
A more fitting analogy would be wanting to order a steak, but instead only having the option of buying an all day catered dinner, during which the time slot for getting served a steak falls within a one hour window. You still have to pay for each item served, regardless of whether you ordered it, ate it, or even attended the serving. If you pay for the upgraded DVR package, you will be given 3 take-home containers. If you would be willing to enter into a contract to do this every day, then I'm sure broadcast television pricing makes perfect sense to you.
All analogies, including mine, have faults. The thing is, no analogy is needed for what OP said. He explained the position very well without using any. Your bumbling, unrelated car analogy does nothing to detract from his point.
The complaint isn't "american viewers are ruining the experience for australian viewers", the complaint is "why is the licensing so messed up that for half the world the convenient and sane option is to download the show illegally?"
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
It's in the torrentsphere now.
Statistics of the top-ten are seriously flawed. Sure the number of downloads is highest in Australia, but there are a few small countries in the top-ten list too, and anyway population sizes vary vastly between the countries in the list. We should really correct for population. Doing so gives me a very different result, with a number to give the download rate corrected for population - the US rate indexed as 1:
1 Norway (24)
2 Australia (14)
3 The Netherlands (8.5)
4 Greece (8.4)
5 Canada (7.1)
6 United Kingdom (3.9)
7 Poland (2.5)
8 Spain (2.2)
9 United States (1)
10 Philippines (0.95)
Most notable is how the US falls down to the bottom of this list. Australia down to #2, Norway all the way on top, and Netherlands on #3. This I think says more about the relative popularity of a show in an area than plain download numbers.
The lower end of this top-ten is probably not accurate as there are plenty more small countries that may move up further but I don't have the numbers. The number of downloads from the US is actually quite small compared to it's population size.
Some of us are only seeing the first season *now*. In some country we see the newest TV show *YEARS* after the first showing in the US. Heck some show *never* come here in Germany. "One week to wait is too much" come off as very weak willed on some people side.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
What sucks is the partitioning of the world in small zone, and that some of the vendor you mentioned refuse (or are not allowed to) to sell or show stuff from the US. The Internet has long been balkanized by copyright and region release staggering.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Tho I feel I'm not actually pirating it.
I paid for the Cable Subscription required to get access to HD HBO for the period of Game of Thrones.
I like the show and want to pay for it, I want them to make more of it.
I also download it every week to archive a copy, because it's less hassle than pulling it off my PVR.
It bugs me that AMC also gets money for my liking Game of Thrones, and that HBO gets money for other crap from my liking Game of Thrones. I don't want gritty political dramas, I don't want witty comedies; I want good Fantasy and good Sci Fi. I will pay for it.
I hope everyone out there that only downloads it, finds a way to contribute to the economic success of the project; to encourage it to keep going. Rather than the way of Rome.
In Germany we have to wait at least a year until a new (season of a) US TV show starts, if at all. ;)
So don't whine when you just have to wait a week
In case of the second season of Game of Thrones the situation has improved as it begins airing in two days on German Pay TV.
However I recall other shows where we really had two wait at least a year, like Breaking Bad for example.
Why ? Because it kicks some serious ass, that's why. I'm a diehard ASOIAF fan, I'm eating my fingers waiting for The Winds of Winter and in the meantime GoT is the best substitute. I refrain myself from sleeping every Sunday night (I'm French, so the episodes usually come out of the HDTV scene @ 4.30 am, Paris time) to get it WHEN IT'S AVAILABLE. Now mark my words, because every fan feels the same : I don't care of the means, as long as I get it soon as possible. Were there a legit way to watch it at roughly the same time as you yanks do, I'd pay good money for it. But there's not.
In sweden, we have to wait close to a year for most shows.
That's why everyone who knows how pirates stuff, being a year behind is absurd in an online world.
Perhaps this is why good shows die. Not the piracy, but the high cost of initial adoption.
I spent many years disconnected from the tube. I did go to the theatre here and there, and bought/rented a few movies, but by-and-large didn't pay much attention to TV series.
Subsequently, there are a *lot* of good shows out there that I haven't watched. Rather than watching something that costs $100+/month for a cable subscription that shows in [insert obscure and inconvenient timeslot here], I manage to pick up all the slightly older stuff I haven't seen at a reasonable price for box sets etc.
Of course, by this time the series are several seasons in. My purchase counts little towards whatever stats they use to determine popularity, and they usually get cut (or start to dry up). I know *tons* of people that by the big box-sets for shows (usually a short time after release when they're a bit more reasonably price) but - like me - don't want to pay for overpriced, commercial-ridden, inconveniently-timed cable/satellite runs or overpriced singles.
On the other hand, most of us are more-than-willing to pay a reasonable price for stuff like Netflix etc. Even in the busy summer when my own TV-viewership is near nil, I don't mind keeping the subscription running (both to support the service and for the odd time when I have my niece over for cartoons, etc).
I stopped by a relatives and *tried* to watch a show with them but the amount of commercials made me feel ill.
On-demand subscriptions (and to some extent physical releases for us collectors) are where it's at. Netflix is great.
For more up-to-date programming, I would be more than happy to pay a reasonable fee per-episode to watch on-demand. No, not the $5.99 for a movie B.S., but a buck or so, maybe two for an episode. I'd even stomach a few (a few, mind you) commercials at a non-deafening volume. In the digital age, they could probably even profile people pretty easily and start having *more effective* commercials by targeting them better to area and interest.
Modern TV packages need to die. Once they go to the tar-pits, everyone wins. The viewers who get the shows they want, and TV companies and studios who could likely sell a shit-load of programming and actually see an improvement in the effectiveness of advertising as well. Hell, they could adopt the gaming model where you pre-buy "credits" and then use them to watch the shows you want. Sell X credits at $Y, or have a credits subscription on a monthly basis for a slightly discount price.
I get the shows I when. They get money. Their advertisers get eyeballs that actually result in sales. They get stats on who likes what shows, and perhaps less good shows die.
Everyone wins. Sounds good to me.
It is only legally available in two forms:
1. Sky Atlantic on Sky TV. Not available on any competing TV provider. If you're on Virgin, FreeView or whatnot, you have only option 2.
2. Wait a year for the box sets.
GoT Season 2 isn't available on iTunes at all as of the time of writing. Season 1 was only added when it was released on DVD. This post is talking about pirating the currently airing season 2...
I am not a Neilsen Family. Whether I watch a show on free-to-air, or have a subscription to cable and HBO (which I do), however I watch a Television Show means nothing. If I download an episode of "The Big Bang Theory" because Tivo managed not to get it, so what? I'll watch Game of Thrones however I can, and with my HBO subscription I'll watch it on my Tivo... if I can. If Tivo doesn't forget.
In the end, with a Television Show, what matters is whether I actually buy the DVDs at the end of the year. I do. On Blu-ray. I will next year as well. For a show that is dumped out on cable, like water over a damn, they have no way to measure how many people actually sit down and watch it. They have no way to measure the actual eyeballs that see the show. Neilsen Ratings be damned, as they are worthless in today's world. A Television Studio Head who pays attention to Neilsen Ratings as the only measure of whether their show is good has their head up their ass...
But guess what? With rampant "piracy" for a Television show (free or cable) they actually have a way to measure What's Hot, and What Isn't So Much. Game of Thrones is most Pirated? That turns into "Holy Shit! We need to renew this for another season, and get those DVDs out there ASAP!" As opposed to "Eh, the crusty old Neilsen Families didn't watch it much."
Money is what matters: Buy the DVDs. Numbers is what matters: Measure the number of downloads (if you can).
Also, I bought all the books. George R.R. Martin owns me.. and I hope he'll finish up with the next book. :)
The main reason is that since TV sucks so badly these days, I don't own one anymore. I have a video beamer shared between my home cinema and Wii, but no cable or other TV reception. And since you can't legally buy the episodes anywhere - there could be a webcomic link here, but by now we all know the one - piratebay it is.
As soon as media companies understand that the Internet is the distribution system they've always dreamed about, they will see the light at the end of the tunnel. The music industry had to be forced to accept that fact, but right now, around 40% of all music sales already happen digitally. A few years from now, they will make more money on the evil Internet than through their old channels. Just like they once fought the VHS tooth and nail and today most movies make more with the DVD version than at the box office.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Wow, can't avoid forums for a week? Can't do something else for a WHOLE WEEK?
It's not a week, though is it? The show airs once per week so you have to do it all week, every week.
No sig today...
Hello, Australian "Consumer" here. Never had cable tv. Previously a light user of the video rental channel. Use the BBC ABC, SBS and NPR (state broadcaster's internet streaming facilities). Now I tell you want. Find me something I'm really interested in. Charge me $5 per torrent to get my hands on a convenent, fast, legal download (and give me a choice of file size - say 250mb to 1.5gb per hour of broadcast) and I'm in. While you're there, don't stuff me around with DRM bullshit.
Almost noone thinks it's wrong... and maybe it's time to reflect that in the laws we live by?
I live in rural Netherlands, this means we have only CanalDigitaal satellite TV. They don't offer HBO. So I download (wich is legal) and I bought the DVD box from S1 to watch it again before starting on S2 (I can't believe I missed that much). I will do this again before I start watching S3 (buying S2 and watching it). I don't want to wait a year before I can watch S2 because my friends have seen it and I want to join the conversations. I use the only way I have to pay for it.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
Oh please, be honest with yourself and others. A "way too expensive for [your] limited budget" DVD sets cost under 30 euros at leading electronics stores in France. You also have a DVD player on your computer, unless a MacBook Air somehow managed to fit into your limited budget. The truth is that you like to hang out with script kiddies on IRC -- you'd pay nothing no matter what.
Also, call me dumbfounded that script kiddies still use .rar files in 2012... The .rar file format became popular in the 1990s because its archives were split on 3.5" floppy disks sized chunks. Insofar as I'm aware, that was it's only use. Irrespective, it evidently survived the CD-burner, the DVD-burner, and peer-to-peer networks. That's a quite the resistant dinosaur.
I live in Germany... Firstly, every legal source for anything is blocked here by a fascist organization called GEMA. Secondly all TV programs have German voice overs which make them unbearable to watch. Thirdly, the Game of Thrones airs here more than 6 months after the original airing in the US. So yeah. I torrent it. Then again If I had an alternative that was as easy as torrenting TV shows I'd gladly pay a reasonable fee for it. Sadly there are no legal sources.
if I only had to wait a week that'd be fine, but here in Korea the only choice is to pirate everything I want to watch. Occasionally very interesting shows do get picked up by Korean TV, but out of say all the network and cable shows out there, the amount that get picked up which aren't CSI or prison break are pretty low.
it's always at least a year later, possibly longer.
You've got a 1% chance you can see the show a year later at some unspecified time or I can just download what I want to watch when I want to.
I have a somewhat different point of view to most posters on this thread
The HBO producers paid money to make this show. Lots of money. They probably spent more on it than you'll earn in your lifetime.
It's their creation, they made it. They have the right to show it when, where and how they want. They have the right to use a business model you think is doomed. They have the right to charge $25/ep.
The sense of entitlement from most posters on this thread is staggering.
I agree it would be a nightmare to try to simultaneously broadcast a show on all the networks everywhere at the same time. The question that comes to mind is, why exactly do we need those TV Stations again?
Put each episode of a series up on the web, make it legally downloadable and watchable for say $1 US per episode. Make the regional ones for markets where the economy is considerably worse available with dubbing in the local language or subtitles available for a comparable amount in that economy. No TV Station required, just an internet connection and some device that can download it.
I would rather pay $1 per week for the 2 or 3 shows I consider watchable at any point in time than shell out $50 more for a cable connection that allows me to watch reams of mindless shit that the TV stations are throwing at us - or spend another $30 per month to get the 2-3 channels that offer quality programming. Its not worth it.
Until the Entertainment industry realizes that people might be willing to pay for things if they were offered at a very affordable rate, in a very convenient manner, and that while some people will still pirate stuff, the majority would be willing to pay quite willingly if it was convenient to them, delivered in a format that was easily accessed, and available when they want it, without ads.
I *DO NOT* watch TV shows at all on cable. I refuse to be inundated with 5 mins of advertising every 15 mins - particularly when they have to edit the content and cut out bits to make room for it.
Piracy will cease to be a factor of any concern, when the Entertainment industry realizes it needs to design its delivery services to reflect the customers preferences. Once its as easy to download and watch something legally (but pay a nominal fee for it) as it to download it and watch it illegally (via piracy), I bet most people will pay. As long as the Entertainment industry continues to put major obstacles and very expensive limits on the availability of the content consumers want to watch, piracy will thrive, because a lot of people don't think its a big deal to download something.
I think we are at the point where TV Stations are an anachronism we could do without. I wouldn't miss any of them for even a second. I get all my entertainment online and most of my TV content from Netflix.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Why would I?
Just as not offend the copyright holder? I don't give a fuck about copyright holders. So why would I?
Ever. Besides I can't even watch anything with DRM, except on my iPad.
You're all going to end up waiting at the end because the author has never written an end to the story.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
...by going to my friend's to watch it. I don't have cable TV. But I do like the show. I'm sure there's someone in the entertainment industry who considers that a form of piracy.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Sure, many people would still get the ripped version, but I'd bet a large amount of people if they COULD GET a legitimate copy even with some ads in the video stream would.
Of course, how you have ads that cover everybody worldwide is another story. I suppose if it were for something like Coke that would be easy since it's sold everywhere.
1. The show is addictive. That's why I can't wait a whole week. I'll watch it as soon as it's available anywhere
2. It might be broadcast when I am not available (I don't know actually)
3. Downloading / streaming a movie/series is not against the law where I live.
I have a Sky subscription. I already pay for Sky Atlantic (which shows Game of Thrones and a bunch of other HBO stuff).
If I've missed something because of a clash on the DVR (can only record two channels simultaneously), or fat-fingered deleting the episode I've just watched *and* the next one, or simply didn't know I wanted to watch a series until a few episodes in, or ran out of space on the DVR, damn right I'll torrent it.
As far as I'm concerned, morally if not legally, anything that's previously been broadcast to me, on a channel I have an active, paid subscription for is fair game. It's effectively getting someone else to do my time-shifting for me.
One week late in Australia? That's nothing.
In most European countries, american TV shows are usually at least two seasons behind, and we have to suffer a low-quality dub (except in nordic countries, where people have been educated to subtitles). Downloading, and fan translation and subbing, are the only reasonable ways for people to enjoy such series to their fullest.
I don't know why Australia is the example here, it sounds like things have improved drastically. I used to live in New Zealand and it wasn't uncommon to wait 6 months for a tv show to air. I now live in Germany. Normally shows are only given to the German dubbing teams on release so it takes a month when they really rush it, and over half a year in many cases. Then I have to find out what channel it is on, and watch it on my tiny little tv interspersed with ads and in German, at some very specific point in time several months from now, assuming I am home and not busy that night. Or I could watch it with the original actors voices in the original language ad free right now streamed on the internet. Of course as I am not a criminal I will not be doing that, but those are my options.
The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction in the Netherlands
A lot of discs come with an Interpol warning as well. What industrialized country isn't an Interpol member state?
They say it's intelligent to leave some jam on the bottom shelf for the little guy. I think it's right.
I would venture it's poor people who have Internet access, yet can't afford pricey cable and HBO fees. They wouldn't be buying it anyway, so there is no real loss other than your poor get a bit of "culture" (yes, let's laugh together at that one) and entertainment for free. Is that such a bad thing? Let us consider what happens if that door gets slammed on their fingers.
First it really lets them know how much of a gap there is in their lives and what little there is to do about it. They are poor, and such things as "Game of Thrones" should be beyond them. How dare they peak into where their kind can't afford? Just another little "fuck you" waved in their faces. So, instead of looking the other way when they are peaking, lets slam the door in their faces and break their little fingers.
Let them get pissed and down load bomb making instructions instead, after all, if we are going to force them to dream, lets make them dream big. Instead of watching some damned TV show and going to sleep that night on their empty stomachs, with a dream in their heads to satisfy them, lets jar them out of their dream worlds and into the hard reality of just how pathetic and fucked their worthless lives are.
By all means, lets keep fucking with the poor until they have nothing left to lose and we have it all. That always works out so well, it helps everything run so damn smoothly and we get to run headlong into progress, impeded only by mass eruptions of anarchy. There is an old saying amongst the old draconian powers; "When wringing the blood from the peasants, make sure none of your own spills." Let's not defeat the wonderful purpose of our modern "bread and circuses", by pricing it out of the hands of those it was meant to placate nor break the mechanism for it's delivery. It's so wonderful, they actually feel like they are "stealing" something and it's actually less than air, it's all an illusion via the magic of 1s and 0s. They are satisfied and their knives aren't at our throats, lets take a solid win and let sleeping dogs lie.
Take the Red Pill.
In the US, iTunes is Season 1 only. It was only made available when the Season 1 DVDs came out.
Ask yourself this question. WWJLD? (What would Jamie Lannister do)
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Yes, and the owner of HBO probably wants you to buy TNT, TBS, TCM, CNN, HLN, truTV, Cartoon Network, and the rest of the Turner package before being allowed to buy HBO.
For a while, I paid for cable, while gradually watching more shows from torrents. It was easier to control what I watch. This included very old shows and current ones. Some copied from VHS, some from digital sources.
I never cared about watching shows NOW, but did consider it a minor benefit that I got to watch the new Battlestar Galactica before my friends in the US-if I recall correctly, it was broadcast in Australia first. But, for me, it just came up on my list of shows to watch.
At one point, I moved to another apartment. I didn't really see the point in paying for cable anymore.
Stop using scarcity with something that is an unlimited resource.
Acting, writing, and directing are not an unlimited resource. If the first copy is several orders of magnitude more expensive than subsequent copies, how do you recommend funding the manufacture of the first copy?
"The fact that the show is only available to those who pay for an HBO subscription doesn't help either."
It's worse than that. An HBO subscription is only available with a cable subscription. That generally comes with a cable box subscription. That generally comes with an upsell for the DVR version. That generally comes with another upsell for an HD compatible box and HD DVR. All conveniently priced such that, after the initial outlay for the basic service, you'd be stupid not to add these very small and reasonable charges on top.
I'll happily pay HBO or Showtime's monthly fees for access to their HBO Go and Showtime Anywhere services. But I can't without paying another ~$60/month for a cable service I don't want.
Game of Thrones, Californication, True Blood, Dexter, they're all great shows. But they're not worth an additional three quarters of a grand a year on top of HBO and Showtime's subscriptions just to be allowed access to pay for those subscriptions.
1. Excitedly rush to iTunes to buy Game of Thrones Season 2 - I didn't know I could buy it!
2. Discover AC is a lying, prick.
3. Return to paying criminals who actually know how to provide a service
I would love to be able to vote with my wallet. I see that's not possible through legal means, at least where I live. I hereby declare my downloads to represent a lost sale caused entirely by being unable to give money for the product I want.
People keep saying it's for sale on iTunes. That's exciting! There's just one little problem...
Putting aside the season 1 vs 2 issue, here is the link Google gave me for Season 1: GoT Season 1. If anyone has a better link, please share it. Let's bend over backward trying to find an alternative to piracy, looking at the publisher's efforts in the very best light, with the assumption that there's no dishonesty and that they are actually willing to sell what people want.
The above link takes me to a page that describes season 1, but is prefaced by an ad for some application software called iTunes (wait, is "iTunes" a store or an application?). Pretty much every link on the page turns out to take me to a page that tells me to get this application, except of course it hasn't actually been ported to anything except two OSes, neither of which is what I use.
How important that is, though, I'm not sure. So far, I have not found a link to a page I fill out some web form to arrange payment and they'll then let me download a file (which I assume would work in mplayer (ideally) or vlc or something). That doesn't mean the web page doesn't exist, merely that google and bing and wikipedia and hbo.com's own pages don't know about this link yet, so I don't know it either. Does anyone have it? Just because I can't find it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe I'm an idiot.
I'll consider the publishing of this link to be HBO's Open For Business sign, even if they are trying to hide it. I know lots of businesses with truly shitty marketing, which are nevertheless intended as for-profit businesses. How an entertainment company could be one of them, I don't know, but that's beside the point. Maybe they just need our help. Anyone got the link?
Has anyone bought the GoT files from Apple without having to use a special client? How did you do it? Got an URL?
Some people have mentioned Amazon, but all I have found over there (so far!) is a shitty Flash streaming service.
This particular defect in Amazon may be totally irrelevant, of course. Amazon does, in fact, sell music in a variety of ways that work excellently and require no bizarre player or client. They sell CDs, every one of which has been compatible with cdparanoia, and they also sell downloadable mp3s (which aren't what I prefer, but are good enough). I just can't find where the sell the video files, though. (And the Blu-Ray discs they sell have DRM, so it's illegal to read them, in addition to being a pain in the ass. So please, let's not talk about Blu-Ray discs until that tech becomes ready.)
Has anyone bought the GoT files from Amazon without having to use a special client? How did you do it? Got an URL?
It all sounds so promising, as though HBO were really open for business. But either they keep failing to close the deal, or I'm too dumb to see where they do it, or somewhere in the middle where we're just not communicating. What's going on?
On thing's for sure, though: the premise where we look at HBO in the best light and assume they are honestly trying to sell the product, does require they are at least up to mid-1990s tech for their store. Somewhere there's gotta be a page where I can give payment info (whether it's credit card info or what .. maybe HBO is too smalltime so they only take paypal, and if so, that's acceptable for now, and maybe they can their little startup out of the garage over the next year) and they will let me download the file. The post I'm replying to comes close to implying this is possible, but stops short of actually saying it, fading into weird terminology ("open iTunes"). Surely someone is about to give me the huge enlightenment+smackdown by posting the mystery URL.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Wow, can't avoid forums for a week? Can't do something else for a WHOLE WEEK? It must be somebody else's fault! You can get books 1-4 as a set for $20 right now ($10 second hand on ebay). Who needs to wait hours for one single episode when you can read at your leisure any time?
You want my impulse buy money? No? Well then STFU.
I have lot's of interests, but little time to indulge them all.
A while back I discovered I could watch series and movies at 1.5x speed, with sound(!), on my PS3 and even faster using the VLC media player (on my Mac). Once you're used to the 'faster' sound, you hardly notice the difference (or at least I don't).
Regular TV does not offer me the option for faster playback, so for me downloading is the only option even if I could watch the slow show through 'legal channels'.
or a HBO equivalent which you might not get for less no money in some countries. Not even on Satellite.
Download the episodes and watch them all at once, back to back?
Others will not be able to afford Cable, may have to wait to view the current episode, or have no digital availability in "your region" etc.
Make these shows available worldwide, at the same time digitally and otherwise and piracy will drop.
Or at any rate, those that pirate will not have been customers able or willing to purchase in the first place.
I'd love to know what countries pirate game of thrones the most, whether it is the United States, or countries outside the US.
What the MPAA and the Networks have yet to explain is why:
A) I pay as much or More for my cable television living outside the US?
B) The US Channels including HBO, Showtime (simply not available), Starz, Discovery, National Geographic and educational channels show premium recent shows and the channels I get outside the United States show older series and movies?
C) Why I speak English yet I am lumped in Latin America where many shows are in Spanish with no subtitles, and foreign language films are unwatchable because there are no subtitles.
D) My Cable companies publicised that they tried to negotiate with US firms to allow them to show the US Feeds and were told that they simply were not available outside the US, fullstop. Pay a million, pay 40 million...they aren't available, take this content which we package for you because we have already shown it to our own people.
E) Why does Netflix Latin America lack over 25,000 movies and series titles that are available on Netflix USA, but I pay the same subscription fee?
F) Why is the content on Hulu not available worldwide?
G) Why can I pay 800USD for an iPhone, 250USD for a Kindle Fire, and 800USD for an iPad but I can't purchase the latest apps or add my credit card to the iTunes store because I do not live in the United States?
H) Why can I purchase a Kindle Touch but cannot purchase over 30,000 books because I am not a US citizen? Why when the Kindle was first available was I paying a dollar more for every book purchase from Amazon?
I) Why are unabridged DVD and BluRay collections in some cases available only in the United States? Why is Amazon prevented from shipping them outside the US?
I'd love a follow up question to the so called "authorities" as to why Foreigners are made to pay more for substandard services and products (in my view, showing old movies at current prices is a scam) and this is not considered a violation of Trade agreements. Under WTO agreements you cannot sell a higher quality product to your own citizens and create an inferior product for export (and especially not at the same price).
Answer those questions, and then we can start talking about why non-US citizens (i.e. the other 6.7 BILLION people in the world) may pirate content when they may be able to afford the products.
Secondly, take a look at this Oatmeal comic which brings the point home as well: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
Sorry, no sympathy for an industry that made record breaking profits last year while crying about how much money it was losing, and doing its best in my view to racketeer profits from overseas markets through an opaque system of IP licensing and distribution.
-Gel214th
In this case, it is possible to achieve exactly the same effect without sacrificing (well, no more than a few GB a month anyhow). Nice, eh?
I actually thought Season one was very close to the book. Season 2.....Very Very not so.
Viv La Piratebay
What for? When the episode is readily available worldwide a few hours after airing in the US there is no point to regional sub-forums etc.
It is not the viewers that needs to adapt to the corporate overlords, it is the corporations that needs to adapt to their customers if they still want to have a market, if they don't the viewers will find alternate routes as is readily apparent by this discussion.
It's an ancient technology, still used by the elderly
We just had this discussion in a meeting at work today, when the "old folks" were the only ones who had cable. The main reason I have cable is for ESPN (and for the handful of network shows, that the networks don't show online)
There really isn't a good (HD) option for watching sports, but ESPN (and the other sports networks). Now I know a some people thing that sports are stupid, (and those same people probably spends lots of time and money play World of Warcraft, so...) But that isn't relevant, as we all have different tastes in entertainment
This is my case. I don't have a TV. I don't want a TV, I'm not from that generation, that option doesn't event enter my mind. I cannot buy game of thrones from itunes or any other retailer the day it comes out. What realistic choice do I have ?
Huh? You certainly do have a "TV." It just happens to be a computer monitor driven by a computer. But claiming you don't have a TV, and then watching television programs on your computer is just a copout, and a way to say you don't own a television. The fact that you don't own a separate monitor soley for the use of watching television program is irrelevant. Personally I happen to like watch my tv programs on my tv. It is a larger screen, and frees up my computer monitor for doing computery stuff like surfing the internet and programming... It is kind of like have 3 monitors instead of 2.
What other realistic choices do you have? Wait for it on DVD, or don't watch it. I want to watch game of thrones. I watched several hours of it once when I was in a hotel that had HBO. It looked good. But I don't pay for HBO so I don't watch it. Maybe one day I'll buy or rent the DVDs. In the meantime I do something else.
iTunes is 2 Episodes behind.
I don't think many people are disputing that.
Most of HBO's show are pretty decent. For a variety of reasons. Fewer FCC limitations, and more money. But they have more money because you have to pay for the shows. If people aren't paying for the show, they shows will be cancelled.
Wait, isn't MPAA saying they are losing money to piracy?
Because there is no equivalent of concert tickets for TV shows. DVDs would be the closest comparison, but they are just the same show people have already seen. One of the big reason people pay for expensive concert tickets is because a live concert is a very different experience from listening to a CD.
Funding a show like Game of Thrones with DVD and tshirt sales would be an incredibly risky venture, if not completely impossible. DVD sales are a long tail revenue stream so you would have to fund the whole first season speculatively and then potentially wait years to recoup those costs. Then 12 months later people are expecting a second season, where does the money for that come from? The percentage of people who will run out and buy the DVDs for a show that just finished on TV is pretty low.
I think a lot of the people posting these 'alternative business models' vastly underestimate how much a show like Game of Thrones costs to make. The estimated budget for the first season was about $45 million
It's all about availability, I don't have HBO or cable television so I have to either wait for DVDs or Netflix. I don't see why I have to pay a cable provider for 100 different channels I have no interest in when I want to watch a handful of shows. The industry has to start thinking about individually packaging and selling series like this instead of forcing you to buy into everything at once. If HBO or Showcase had their own streaming service, like Netflix or Hulu, I'd signup in heartbeat.
The people who make this could make money NOW if they wanted to. They don't want to. Then they lose it.
People want it know - just because you are so layabout who can't be bothered to take part in the world doesn't mean you matter , you are a tiny minority.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Funny, I just checked itunes and it sells for 3.99 per episode. But only for season 1, so if you want to see season 2 you are apparently out of luck. Oh look latest episode in hidef and I can download it in a couple of minutes. Thank you pirate bay!
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
Since the word "fan" in the context of enjoying something a lot is a shortened version of the word fanatic, I would say he's describing pretty much the same thing.
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
I remember back when I was watching Lost. This was the last show that I watched on broadcast TV when I had friends and colleagues in the US watching it. We were a few days behind the US for most episodes. After a specific episode, one of the non-media related websites I read had a headline to the effect of "Why Charlie had to die in the season finale of Lost". This wasn't a TV news site, and it was a headline, not a line in a story. It was almost impossible to miss.
The writers / creators of that show put some (debatable!) amount of effort into creating a story and telling that story, but due to their US centric view of broadcasting, it was ruined for thousands of people around the world.
I don't have TV, at all. I don't have cable even less so. I think this series is brilliant, but to watch it I have to find a friend who has cable and be there when it airs.
In a world with such ubiquitous connectivity and an already existing HBO-GO infrastructure, as well as netflix streaming and whatnot - it's flatly stupid that I can't pay for these episodes and watch them - which I would gladly do.
I want to support this kind of thing being made but I have no way to do that.
"No good deed goes unpunished"
It would cost me an addition $30 a month to get HBO added to my cable/internet conbo, via the various packages. That works out to roughly 8 bucks a show, considering 4 shows a month. How much would I be willing to pay for HBOgo? Netflix is ~8. Would I pay $15? Or is the real value of HBO $30/mo?
What would you pay for HBOgo if you could buy it directly?
Excuse me, but what planet are you living on? I live in Canada too, and unless you're living in the Arctic circle, there is no way these figures are right.
Here are the rough costs in Eastern Ontario, to do what you want, assuming you have a television set but don't have the receiver or cable service.
1. Purchase a cable or satellite system package (fees vary) - around $50/month
2. Select a package with HBO - around $10-15/month
3. Rent or buy a receiver with DVR abilities (about $15-20/month for rental, about $350 for purchase)
4. If you want HD, get HD - around $10 per month.
You would NOT have to spend close to a thousand dollars to watch Game of Thrones. In fact, if you rented instead of purchased (which with a lot of the DVR receivers is the better way to go due to a lot of them being on the flakey side), you could do it for as little as $110 per month.
Seriously, dude, I own an HD receiver (non-DVR), and I get cable and HBO, and I'm paying less than $100 per month - and drowning in on-demand while I'm at it (which, by the way, each episode of Game of Thrones is available on about two days after its first airing).
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
However, the amount of commercial airtime in it is absolutely repugnant. It has not been lost on me that a 45 min show has been stretched to 1hr 15m (beyond the usual 'rounded' padding of a show to 1hr) since it is evidently a popular show.
Well, unless they're editing it, there's no way they could add any commercials and keep it under an hour. It is an HBO original series, which airs without advertisement interruptions. (HBO Being a premium channel, the ads they run are for their own shows, and are run between shows, not during them) With the exception of the pilot, most of the episodes run 56 minutes or so. So, really, at 1 hour 15, SKY is only adding 19 minutes of ads, which is only a touch over the normal hour padding of 15 minutes.
Free Pie! The Pie is Also Evil!
I'm an american living abroad and I buy everything I watch through my US iTunes account except Game of Thrones. Why? Because we get every HBO show months or years later. In the meantime, everyone at work has already seen it. I did finally buy Season 1 on iTunes, but that was well after I watched it.
That's not love, that's marketing.
Absolutely. The difference is simple, too: it's marketing if you "love" something that cannot love you back.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Hey, I'd pay good money to see dominoes thrown at cats (as long I didn't have to wait a week to see it)
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