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Following FEMA's Zombie Preparedness Plan Could Land You On Terrorist List
colinneagle writes "As if warning a zombie apocalypse is imminent, FEMA hosted a webinar for its Citizen Corps encouraging emergency planners 'to use the threat of zombies — the flesh-hungry, walking dead — to encourage citizens to prepare for disasters.' The problem is many of those recommendations would have you do things that would flag you as a possible terrorist according to The DOJ's controversial 'Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities' guidelines. From the article: 'Don't be silly by thinking you must actually break the law before cops deem you a potential threat and report you. Paying with cash comes under numerous "you might be a terrorist if" lists. Whatever you do, stocking up on non-perishable food as the feds advise should not include buying "meals ready to eat" since that, too, is potentially suspicious and means you might be a terrorist. "Suspicious activity" at military surplus stores includes making "bulk purchases" of "weatherproofed ammunition or match containers and meals ready to eat, as does suspicious purchasing of "night vision devices include night flashlights and gas masks."'"
So are terrorists. How convenient.
"I'd just like to emphasise that taking a million years isn't a metaphor here..." -Rich Bradshaw
Just rip off Foxworthy's act and replace redneck with terrorist.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
I buy all of my MREs at the Commissary on military bases. Nobody gives you a second look, just like nobody looks twice if you are wearing camouflage, carrying a gun and large rucksack, or running at 6 am on a Saturday.
sudo make me a sandwich
I suggest everyone ask to be added to the list.
I have some MREs in my car and a few in my basement that get replaced periodically for emergencies.
I guess I am both a moron and a terrorist then. I can tell you I know nothing about food storage. I am not also stocking up for a siege. I live in an area with snow and I might get caught without food on accident.
*Actually* preparing for a zombie apocalypse should get you placed an some other lists as well.
A while back something mildly Kafkaesque happened to a friend of mine, who owned a light aircraft (a rather old tatty one).
He bought a few items from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty - some paints for fabric-covered light planes, and a few items of hardware, to perform some general maintenance and tidy-up. They duly arrive by courier, and he picked them up from his apartment complex's management office. A couple of days later the FBI turn up at his apartment to check whether he's a terrorist! Apparently, the apartment manager saw a box from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty, saw my friend pick it up (who's skin colour is not perfectly white, somewhere between white and hispanic) and called the FBI who came out and investigated him.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
By reading this article you're suspicious.
By reading this comment you're even more suspicious.
Want to admit something, terrorist?
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Back in the nineties there was a group that called themselves "Viper Team". They were firearms enthusiasts, and among the things they did were to make a video on how to blow up buildings. They had no explosives, they and no intent, but they used public and government buildings in their video as to what parts of the buildings were structural and how those areas support the building.
There was, of course, an infiltration investigation. The infiltrator apparently tried to incite the members into criminal acts, specifically, robbing a bank. By the end of the investigation, only one person spent time in prison, and that was because he had modified an AR-15 to full-auto. But, people who were friends with this man and others in the group probably had their phones tapped and all of the various groups around these people were nervous.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that the convicted man and the others were also heavily involved in Fandom, so basically all Fandom around here was somewhat investigated? That's basically why I know about it, because there are still a lot of bitter people in local Fandom because of this.
The media referred to the group as, "The Viper Militia". Having been acquainted with some of these people that's a bit of a stretch. Even using "Team" in their name was a stretch, they were about as organized as a clowder of cats, as most Fandom is.
So, in my opinion, it's all a big friggin' joke.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
So that has been my problem all along. I always have used my day flashlights at night, now I know what I was doing wrong.
There have been numerous reports of the Homeland inSecurity demanding customer lists from bulk supply stores/online merchants. Some stores say "no" but some other stores happily hand it over. Then the customers on the list get visits from the DHS officers requesting permission to search those homes.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Whatever you do, stocking up on non-perishable food as the feds advise should not include buying "meals ready to eat" since that, too, is potentially suspicious and means you might be a terrorist.
You shop at Costco!
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
Seriously? I can't think of a reason.
Terrorism is usually something done in a very short time window. I don't think the hijackers on 9/11 took a coffee break to cook up some ramen in the middle of the flight.
I think he meant you're a moron if you're buying them in bulk. Living off of them for a couple days to a couple weeks sure, but there are much better options out there for long term survival than MREs.
No? Then the system of checks and balances still works.
People who talk about the gestapo never know what this truly means.
The Gestapo doesn't ask if you are guilty. They decide, then torture you for information or just kill you. And if a second after they decided, they get proof from god that your innocent? No difference. THAT IS DICTATORSHIP.
Everything else is freedom with a legal system. And if you thought your legal system doesn't mean things can happen like being arrested on a mere suspicion and questioned for hours. Then you have just lived a very sheltered life. Any normal country with a legal system gives the police the duty and the powers to investigate, arrest and question to follow leads. Just hope you are never a subject of a investigation or will you will learn just what it means to live in a system with a working legal system.
Then again, since the line for emigration to places like Somalia where there is no police who can question you just for receiving a package, is non-existent, I get the feeling that either Somalia government is high efficient at processing immigration requests, or people prefer a country with a working legal system even if it sucks if you ever get caught in its gears.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Our church leaders have continually told us that we should have both a 72 hr kit and a year's food storage. Its not uncommon for a food storage order make its rounds at church every few months or for there to be classes taught during the week on canning and food storage meal prep. Tack on the fact that besides organizations like Walmart & the Red Cross, we have the largest food production & distribution network, all in house and mostly staffed by volunteers.
I guess all of that make us one of the largest terrorist networks in the world. And here you thought that our missionaries were just there to annoy you with offers of Mormon Videos & a copy of the Book of Mormon. Never underestimate the clean white shirt, pressed dark pants, tie and the infamous black & white name tag.
The difference between MRE and non-parishables is the idea that an MRE is something you will be eating in an expected warfare condition. (Where you don't have the opportunity to make a camp fire, and live in an area and move out quickly) vs. Canned foods, where you have supplies where you would have a camp fire to cook, and setup a place to either reuse the cans or have a place to leave your garbage.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Wouldn't it be easier to just add EVERYONE to the terror list? I was about to say "and drop off those who have been cleared", but I couldn't stop laughing long enough to add it.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
"night vision devices include night flashlights and gas masks."'
Instead of those highly specialized day flashlights...
I plan on buying a few cases myself. I live in PA. We get snowstorms. I now live in an area with very large trees, with some hills. It might take a few days with a chainsaw to get my driveway open again if two very large trees fell across. I roll my eyes at the current zombie fad. I want to be warm, comfy and well fed for a couple weeks even if three feet of snow is dumped on me, like the Blizzard of 1996.
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
Glad that cash is still widely used in Europe and in the rest of the world. It would be a sad day when you can't buy something without giving up your privacy or when you can't buy something with cash and immediately being flagged as a terrorist suspect. Frankly, wtf?
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
No, you are just gullible. MREs are basically tinned food in a bag. The reason the military want them in a bag is because they are lighter and take up marginally less space. For civilians where lightness nor space are a consideration, buy tinned food, you will save a lot of money and not be scammed by inflated profit margins just because you bought your food in bags rather than tins. Note you will also get greater variety.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
TFA's 2 points about over/under - interest in radio controlled aircraft, I can see it now: "Good morning sir, I'm somewhat interested in radio controlled aircraft and would like to purchase one. Now, don't get me wrong, I do have a interest that sits above just a casual interest, however I'm also not overly interested in them, in fact, I'd say I'm about just the right amount of interested in radio controlled aircraft to buy one, but not so interested that it'd be suspicious.... say, who are you calling?"
> no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)
The suspicious activity list is just another sign of the decline of our society. Time to stock up...
Why would I care if they think I'm a terrorist?
You are messing up the delivery. It has to follow the format.
If you (insert joke here) , you might be a terrorist.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
MRE is convinent for a quick meal that takes up a small space if you have the ability to heat or cook it if required. For longer term survivability, they are not a good choice. I have a kit similar to this. You can still prepare for an emergency with standard off the shelf stuff from your grocery store without looking like a paranoid terrorist. Cans of meat like SPAM and DAK/hormel canned hams, canned and dried soups, tuna in oil, fruits, vegtables, all have shelf lives in the 2-4 year range. All of them are fully cooked and can be eaten by themselves straight out of the cold can or can be mixed in various quanities and heated for a "supper". Dry boxs and bags of things like Mac and Cheese, powered milk, flour, pasta, rice have a 1-3 year shelf life and can last longer if needed. Keep some of this stuff on hand and rotate through the stuff as you use them and you will have a good start without looking suspicious.
Not to mention the fact that many of the acts of terrorism these days involve suicide bombers. Maybe the assumption is that terrorists all live in secluded bunkers in the middle of nowhere and don't have ready access to McDonald's?
What I like is "buying firearms outside of season". Okay, hunting rifles, I can sort of see--except for the fact that many gun stores hold sales in the off season in order to keep customers coming in. But what about handguns? Is there a "handgun season" I don't know about? Some high-caliber revolvers are used in boar hunting, but that's all I know. I guess the take-away is, "Legally own a firearm, which the Constitution lets you do? You might be a terrorist."
One thing that should be mentioned, though, is the key phrase: "large quantities". The list mentions propane gas. Just buying one tank for your family BBQ isn't going to arouse suspicion. Buying 50 canisters, though, might--and, honestly, even I would raise my eyebrows at that. My favorite part, though: "Shoplifting or purchasing [...] several large aircraft, engines, or transmitters". If a guy manages to fit several large aircraft under his coat, he deserves to keep them.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Space and weight are always relevant, even if you are a civilian. This is why civilian canneries have started using the MRE approach with civilian food products.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Canned food only has a 2 year shelf life, if you're lucky. Cheap MREs come with 5 years. The later is also a complete meal, not just the one item on the label.
How can you end up on a watchlist paying cash? You pay cash and you walk out with your stuff.
They're also very calorie dense; each MRE is about 2,000 calories. They're made for rangers toting 80# rucks 12 hours a day, not wannabes sitting in the living room.
MREs are OK for a few days, but after that they will mess with your internal plumbing too they are so loaded with preservatives.
You're much better off buying the semi-instant rice, noodles, and potatos at the grocery store, and paying attention to the nutrition information.
What should the DOJ do to prevent possible future terror attacks? Should they just be accepted as a cost of freedom? Rejected as a highly improbably occurrence? If not, what sort of indicators should they look for before investigating further?
With a list like that I'm surprised that the noise level isn't so high it makes the data pretty much useless.
You might be a terrorist if you're buying freeze dried meals, survival equipment, ammo (especially out of season), camouflage gear and night vision equipment, etc (all from the list). Then again you might be preparing for a backpacking trip, a cost conscious hunter, prepping for unlikely events, or any number of things normal people are extremely likely to do.
If you (insert joke here) , you might be a terrorist.
I don't get it...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
'Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities' guidelines? PITA guidelines? Well done!
Dunno, I think that one fits pretty well... "Hey guys, we've got another PITA to investigate."
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
I like this... And if I get stuck on the never to be fixed no-fly list, so be it. Air travel has gotten so bad I drove from Houston to Orlando for vacation... Pay cash everywhere! Get "Cash Customer" on all the watch lists!
Lets not forget those exothermic MRE heaters.
Wake me up when a can of beans can cook itself...
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
"... the LAPD adopted 15 of the DOJ's ridiculous lists regarding 'Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities.' "
Yeah, because nothing ever goes wrong in L.A. that citizens would need to be prepared for.
Except for riots. And earthquakes. And the whole place burning down every year. But other than that, it's just like you see on TV.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
I like this... And if I get stuck on the never to be fixed no-fly list, so be it. Air travel has gotten so bad I drove from Houston to Orlando for vacation... Pay cash everywhere! Get "Cash Customer" on all the watch lists!
Dammit, now I want an "achievements" section on the DHS web site so I can see what I can go for next.
If you (don't get it), you might be a terrorist!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Here's your sign.
Not everyone has that option.
Half my family is across and ocean. I wonder if no-fly means no-boat either.
Of course, they taste terrible, which is a selling point for me. I will actually wait for an emergency before I eat my MREs, rather than gobbling them up simply so I don't have to go to the store.
Government increasing a grip on our habits, whereabouts, manners, thoughts, etc. which results ideally in absence of successful acts of terrorism, that being the measure of some kind of synthetic success of the society. This is in a striking contrast with other crimes: theft, for example, where the rights of thieves are protected.
Granted, destruction of twin towers which led to deaths of 3000 people are not comparable to typical home invasion/exceeding defense limits scenario, but they might be comparable to the massive billion-dollar scams that deprived thousands and thousands of people of their earnings.
When some intellectuals defend the "freedoms" of a gangster terrorizing poor ethnic neighborhoods, when they defend "freedoms" of a home invader who met a bullet in the face, the society sees this a healthy sign of a liberal society. Some intellectuals consider existence of some sort of crimes as a healthy sign of freedoms in society: drunk driving, for example, would not be possible in a Shariah country.
I propose to similarly consider the incidents of successful terror acts as a measure of "healthy liberalism" in society:
If in some Western country X, terrorists are able to carry their acts - good for X, liberties, privacy of ordinary citizens are preserved.
If a president of the country Y is killed - good for Y, liberties are preserved.
How do you like them apples now, slashdot?
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
So civilians have unlimited storage and unlimited carrying capacity?
You might want to let the military know, they would be interested in that kind of tech.
Bunch of people appear to be intent on blowing up buildings. Fed investigates, determines that one guy committed a crime, nobody else did. One guy gets arrested, indicted and imprisoned for the crime, everybody else gets asked questions, not arrested, indicted, convicted, improsoned or disappeared.
Many, many people can't tell a joke.
I once had a lady who I saw on a daily basis try three different times, on three successive days, to tell me the same joke. The third time was because she realized she botched the delivery the second time, which was because she realized that she botched the delivery the first time.
Well, at least she realized it.
Unfortunately, by the time she got to the third time, when she finally delivered it well enough, I already knew the punchline, and, quite frankly, the joke wasn't that funny anyway.
On the fourth attempt, I asked her if she would please stop.
Even sadder, the whole thing began when I asked someon a riddle. This poor lady didn't even grok the difference between a joke and a riddle. She had no chance of telling it well the first try.
www.wavefront-av.com
Most canned goods have a 3 year shelf live based and that time is based on a consistent taste and advertised nutritional valve. An MRE loses taste and nutitional value in the same manner and is also degrades with large temperature changes just as a canned good does.
This is an example from Hormel regarding their "use by date" from their FAQ at http://www.hormelfoods.com/faqs.aspx#can1
What is the shelf life of a Hormel Foods product in an unopened can?
The processing techniques utilized by Hormel Foods makes the canned product safe for use indefinitely if the product seal remains intact, unbroken and securely attached to a can that has been well maintained. It is suggested that all canned products be stored in a cool and dry environment to keep the flavor adequately preserved. For maximum flavor it is recommended that the product be used within three years of the manufacturing date. After that period of time, the product is still safe to use however, the flavor gradually declines.
Survivalist-type MRE buyers are, by definition, suckers, so stop messing the business model, please.
Yes, because a pantry, garage, or storm shelter are finite, and neither is a soldier's backpack, the storage issues are the same and the tiny improvement in density that is worth it for a soldier is also obviously a good tradeoff for a civie stocking up said pantry, garage, or storm shelter.
The enemies of Democracy are
Can we get this added to steam?
Canned food only has a 2 year shelf life....
Canned food does not have a 'shelf life' of two years. You are thinking of bottled water (thanks to New Jersey). Most canned food has a 'best by' date, but that is related to flavor, marketing and the ability to track food in case of a recall. It doesn't actually apply to the actual nutrition and safety of the packaged food.
Proposal: Everybody go out and spend as much time as possible taking pictures of dams, power plants, government buildings, and anything else that makes the Spooks paranoid.
Also, let's agree to stop buying firearms, ammunition, fuels, adhesives, plumbing bits, et. al., with anything but cash.
Dress in cammies. All. The. Time. This is especially important to do when taking photographs of infrastructure as mentioned above.
Have a poker night with your buddies, or a member of a DnD club? Make your meetings (and communications regarding meetings) as cloak-and-dagger as possible, to give the impression that you're engaging in some sort of nefarious activity.
In essence, let's poison the holy living FUCK out of this well - give them so many false positives, they'll be forced to scrap the whole project.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Is that an airplane in your.... oh my god! Someone call an ambulance!
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Did anyone read the linked too article? The amount of overlap from the actual CDC list of items to have and the list of items that could land you on a watch list are.. zero.
I have belonged to several zombie fansites and zombie survival oriented forums over the years, where the members regularly do the things mentioned in this article. There are even threads where members post and compare photos of their massive weapons collections, many of which have AR15s, pistol grip combat shotties and other goodies not allowable in my state.
No one has ever posted, at least to my knowledge, about being questioned, harassed or contacted by any official in the midst of their activities; and while that doesn't mean they aren't silently placed on some watchlist, I think it's unlikely; especially given the number of natural disasters the North American continent has seen in recent years. It just makes sense to stock up on some supplies. Not every government agency is the TSA. It's a losing argument for the feds because the CDC and FEMA promote survival saavy; if a serious terrorist attack occurs again, or a hurricane/flood/wildfire/earthquake/tornado strikes, victims in that area will need some of those survival skills and gear, and they know it.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
This isn't about middle eastern "crash planes into buildings" terrorists, they're looking for Timothy McVeigh type terrorists and Michigan Militia types. Basically far right rednecks that are not always completely with it mentally and sometimes go a bit too far.
I read the internet for the articles.
There's a joke among the infantry: "MREs are three lies in one acronym", as they are not really "meals", they aren't really "ready-to-eat", nor are they strictly-speaking "edible".
If you have some free time and a *very* strong stomach, look around for some stories of the gastrointestinal distress living off MREs can cause.
Kinda defeats the purpose of getting on the list if you both post AC... :)
Not everyone has that option. Half my family is across and ocean. I wonder if no-fly means no-boat either.
Does it mean no drive across the boarder as well? With the larger PITA of international flights, it is something to consider...
The premise is to prepare for a zombie attack, correct?
"Suspicious activity" at military surplus stores includes making "bulk purchases" of "weatherproofed ammunition"
There are two constants when it comes to zombies:
"night vision devices"
Aside from the specific problem of thermal imaging not working too well on the walking dead (who are likely ambient temperature), passive night-vision technologies are generally intended to be able to see in the dark without being seen yourself. I don't recall many examples of zombies being that reliant on their visual senses (assuming they even still have eyes).
gas masks.
A zombie hoard's main weapons are tenacity and numbers, not mustard gas and sarin. Zombie plagues tend to spread by fluid exchange (e. g. biting) rather than airborne agents.
Homeland Security wants us to prepare for zombies. These items don't seem to prepare one for zombies very well.
But when did this stupid zombie apocalypse fad become so widespread? Does it have to do with movies? Resident Evil (2002) and Shaun of the Dead (2004) have been around awhile, but I feel like it's only been in the last couple of years that everyone and their damned grandmother has started talking about it. Maybe video games. Either way, it won't be zombies that kill you. It will be cancer. Sorry to be such a buzzkill =(
I'm well aware of the Four Fingers of Death.
What about rabies?
Some people live in apartments, or just do not have garages.
Several months to a years worth of food takes up considerable space.
I do it with less tinned stuff and more staples, but some people like it.
to just have a well stocked pantry? I can understand having a few in your car, etc. but if you are in your house, you should have access to a lot tastier options.
Since there *are* no such things as zombies, I have to wonder what all these preparations are for. Judging by the demographics, I'd say that "zombie apocalypse" is really just a fun proxy code word standing in for "racial holy war".
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I dunno. I think endothermic heaters are cool!
If you (insert joke here) , you might be a terrorist.
I don't get it...
It depends on where you insert the joke. It also depends on how forcefully you do so. Using certain values for these variables will increase the likelihood of you being a terrorist.
:-P
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
You don't have to heat a lot of the canned foods either. I personally can't stand cold pork and beans, but I know some people that eat them when hunting.
There must be something suspecious about you.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Yes, and they make your pee smell funny.
No sooner do I get over one, then you put a better one right next to me. Bastards.
For snowstorms, it would actually make more sense to buy dehydrated canned food, since you're not in danger of having your water supply interrupted. That stuff can easily be stored for decades without losing its flavor, is very compact and light, and tastes surprisingly decent once rehydrated.
MREs (or canned foods) is for emergencies where you may have trouble with water. Earthquakes, for example.
During my time in the military, we were told to make sure we drank at least a canteen of water with our MREs, or the acronym would no longer stand for Meals Ready to Eat.
They would be Meals that Refuse to Exit.
Since Wornick discontinued the civilian MIL-SPEC line, the commerclal MREs haven't been as good. The Eversafe ones are much worse, and run heavily to pasta. (Chicken-based MREs are OK cold. Pasta, no.)
Any recommendations?
Woot! i got the "raided by DHS with assault rifles and body armor achievement" a few years ago...was never charged with anything, (there was a slashdot article about it at the time, but i am not going to post a link to it)
wonder how many lists i am on?
i have a flight in a couple months...we will see how that goes...
posting anonymously to at least make it more challenging for them...hi guys!
I would imagine those might come in handy if you're planning on a trip to join the jihadis in, say, Afghanistan.
Though the guys in the mountains of Chechnya make do with Snickers bars...
After a week in the field, they sure make shitting difficult. Or maybe that's just me.
If you
Just rip off Foxworthy's act and replace redneck with terrorist.
you might be a terrorist.
Oh don't worry, we know who they are!
Sincerely,
The Govt.
Yeaahhh, you need to work on your delivery.
If you don't know what an MRE is -- and clearly you don't -- a simple google search will help you.
And in other news, an individual known only as "Tater Salad" has been added to the FBI's list.
Why are you stocking up on supplies? Only terrorists need supplies! Citizens are not meant to purchase any of these things, as they are earmarked for the greater good of The State. Should an actual disaster arise, The State will dispense goods to you as needed at the discretion of local officials. Since you have shown you are unable to trust your glorious benefactors, you are hereby remanded to State custody to be re-educated.
Always remember:
The State knows best. The State keeps you safe. The State will provide for you. Freedom breeds individuality. Individuality breeds free thought. Free thought breeds unhappiness. Unhappiness breeds dissent. Dissent breeds chaos. Sowers of chaos will be dealt with accordingly.
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
If you are stuck in a snowstorm... You will most likely get out in a day or so. Thus you don't need MRE but just trail mix and other food to keep your energy up. However unless you car has enough gas to keep the heat going, you may still want to go out and make a camp fire to keep warm. You can freeze to death just sitting in your car.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Canned food is good as long as the can is in good condition (no dents or rust) and there's no sign of bulging (due to anaerobic bacterial activity).
Of course if you're looking to buy once and be done with it, it's hard to beat the canned + freeze-dried food from places like Mountain House. Their big cans come with a 25yr+ rated shelf life.
As for the "complete meal": There are plenty of one-can meals available (including the aforementioned freeze-dried stuff). If you really need a cookie or whatever to "complete" your meal, just buy extra packs of the ones you like and keep them around the house.
I am not sure.
I have driven across the border to fly out of Toronto before. The Canadian security was way more pleasant to deal with.
You might just be a terrorist...
- If you consider C-4 an undergarment...
- If your shoes provide energy return, light up when you walk and go BOOM...
- If your Gawd is bigger than their Gawd and you're willing to fight about it...
- If your idea of "Spraying Pests" includes an automatic machine gun...
- If you're setting off a nuke sounds like the Mutha of all Weenie Roasts...
- If a businessman walking down the street holding out his hand yells "Hi Jack" and you pull a gun...
You're right this works pretty good... Thank you Mr. Foxworthy!
Not everyone has that option. Half my family is across and ocean. I wonder if no-fly means no-boat either.
Does it mean no drive across the boarder as well? With the larger PITA of international flights, it is something to consider...
If you've found a way to *drive* across the ocean, well, my hat is off to you, sir!
:-P
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
MREs have very low dietary fiber content, and that's what messes with your system. As a past consumer of many an MRE going back to the days of the four fingers of death, I can confirm the effects. Otherwise, MREs are nutritionally sufficient, although high in fat and sodium. So if you plan on living on MREs, make sure you pack a few bottles of fiber supplement like Benefiber and mix it with lots of water.
And for some people cost is more important than volume or mass when stocking up on a year's worth of food.
But yes, those are reasonable considerations for an actual tradeoff assessment which will vary greatly between situations, and is not primary affected by the lack of infinite space or storage capacity.
The enemies of Democracy are
i go on unsupported bicycle touring so we need to carry all our own gear. further we occasionally purposefully make it more difficult and add rules that you aren't allowed to purchase anything during the trip. usually the trips are about a week long, but we are carrying all our camping gear, clothes and food to survive for the week.
we have similar carrying space and calorie requirements to soldiers. I don't use MRE's. i do bring a lot of freeze dried stuff and essentially build my own homemade MRE. we do have some small compact camp stoves for heating them. there is enough stuff out there that you can make your own lightweight and compact MRE's that taste better. And if you aren't planning on marching or biking all day, then you also don't have the same calorie requirements.
good items for an emergency/survival food kit.
noodle or rice packets are fairly lightweight, compact and last a long time.
freeze dried fruit makes a good crunchy snack, and lasts a long time.
pancake mixes usually go over well, and if you get maple sugar you can add water to make syrup to go on the pancakes.
there is a lot of stuff out there, you don't really need to get MRE's
however i guess doing stuff like this gets me on a watch list.
you're assuming that the electricity has not gone out, or there is plenty of accessible fuel for melting that snow into water. you're also assuming that the snow has not had a chance to become contaminated by environmental factors (animals, roof runoff, salt spray, etc.)
They questioned him as a witness to one crime, with wich he had nothing to do and was perfectly innocent. But during the questioning he ended up laying some crumbs with a few wrong words, which the investigator followed, and ended up in him being arrested for another crime (adultery, he was in the military).
It may not be adultery for you, but maybe something you didn't even know was a crime. Maybe you admitted to sightseeing along a highway in Nevada, and off-handedly mentioned how much you love camels too. Wait, did you ride a camel on a Nevada highway? Busted! A lawyer will tell you "Don't answer that" before you hit that point.
You go to REI, buy up a large supply of pretty decent freeze dried dehydrated food that will last WAY longer. Better yet, there was a wonderful model home for energy efficiency in Denver, they had a 200 sq. ft walk-in refrigerator/freezer (underground) than operated on 10 watts. With a small modification you could do a three stage freezer with a Fridge, Light Freeze and Deep Freeze. Keep your zones well separated and everything well insulated. But you could store meat, and a wide variety of cooked and flash frozen veggies in the deep freeze for years. Running on only 10 - 15 watts, It could have its own solar power and run indefinitely.
As for long term storage, anything make of living matter (plant or animal) irradiated and sealed in a hermetic pouch can last for a couple years. Sooner or later the proteins and enzymes in the food will break it down, and it will get nasty. NASA tests these things for long space flights, and because food is both a social moment and an opportunity for personal enjoyment (important on long tedious missions) they want to know how long food can be made to stay delicious and visually appealing.
For a generation raised on Taco Bell and School Cafeteria Food (canned peas.... eeewwwww), MREs are just fine. For folks who are interested in real food... Drying, Canning, and Freezing are still your best solutions. Back when most folks lived on farms, this was a given, and the amount of amazing food available to make from these processes is simply mind numbing. That and dehydration reduces food volume by anywhere from 60% to 99%. This means you can put a whole lot more good things in the little shelter. Just remember whole dried fruit will reconstitute in your GI tract, and anyone who hasn't experienced eating a dozen dried prune, apricots, peaches, pears... pick a fruit, then followed that with about a liter of water... well let's just say that if your were constipated... you aren't any more (stand back, she's gonna blow!!!)
Don't go camping.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I'm assuming that you get your water from the tap, more or less. Why would that suddenly cease in case of a snowstorm?
If you really want to save your self some money buy a bunch of canning supplies and learn how to can food your self. I can lots of stuff and this weekend I canned ~2 gallons of homemade pasta sauce, the previous weekend I canned up ~5 gallons of chile, and next weekend I am planning on making and canning a bunch of beef and Guinness stew. I will also can soups, other sauces, veggies, pickles, pickled peppers, jelly, etc. Typically they will keep for a over a year when stored in a cool dark place (basement closet) and it keeps my freezer space open. I end up splitting 1/4 of cow and 1/4 of a bison each year with my father as well as usually getting a deer so freezer space is a premium and before the next year's meat arrives I use the lower quality cuts (round steak and chuck roast) in stew and chile so that it won't get buried in the freezer. Also it is a great use of the fresh produce I grow in the garden so that it also doesn't go to waste. As an added benefit I have good food ready made (just reheat) that I can use when I don't feel like cooking fresh food. Over the course of the year my family will consume the food I canned so it's not like I have some retarded stockpile of food but if we lost power or had some disaster that lasted a few weeks we wouldn't have any problems. I also have a fair amount of tinned food that I bought at the store like some soups and baked beans (seriously why not stock up when it goes on sale if you actually eat it) as well as dried pasta that keeps just fine on the the pantry shelf. There are some foods that I buy in the grocery store that come in MRE packing but that is a brand of Indian food that is like $1.25 per package and one pack is a meal. They have various curries as well as rice dishes so if you have 2 people (or are really hungry) you make up a bag of rice and a bag of curry. One of the benefits I discovered about the Indian food in a bag is you can cook it while still in the bag so you don't even need potable water. This has come in handy when I last went up to the BWCA and brought some along instead of only relying on the traditional dehydrated, or packaged food the guide companies provide you with (even MREs would be a vast improvement over dehydrated powdered scrambled eggs).
Time to offend someone
This is exactly right. There are so many things you can do off the grid with a little thinking. You can build a solar grill or oven with cardboard and aluminum foil. Get bother the standard and the HEAVY DUTY which is about 2-4 times as thick, it makes a great small construction material, insulator and can be formed.Case in point, you make a parabolic dish out of cardboard, line it with aluminum foil shiny side out and you can boil water, fry, even start fires with it. A clever person with a properly filled 30 pound (14 Kg) day pack, could easily carry enough food and tools to find/catching more to last as long as they need.
Yes, but tossing out weight and density for civilian needs is extremely silly.
There's also a convenience side to it. You absolutely can put together your own freeze dried and wet pack long-storage food that is tastier and as calorie dense (or more, in fact.) But think about the people that end up with MREs -- most of them are not hard-corps outdoorsmen or emergency preparedness geeks. They are folks who heard, "you should have some food on hand that you don't have to cook on the stove in case there is an emergency", and they have a couple of choices. The can do a lot of research, go to a bunch of different places, gather it all up, prepare some parts of it in advance, and reseal it... or they can google "MRE", order a case from a camping supply, and be done with it.
A lot of people are just going to order the MREs... and these are the same people who frankly would burn out halfway through the other part and wouldn't have any food on hand when an emergency hit. I would rather they do something to help themselves than just say, "eh, that's too much work" and go back to American Idol.
Sorry I don't watch SNL. I like comedies.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
FWIW, Jeff Foxworthy has used "You might be a redneck if..." as the title to several of his books.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
"Then I bought the horse a prostitute!"
...maybe you had to be there...
Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
Well, there you have it, being prepared means you're a terrorist. Somebody better go round up the Boy Scouts, wouldn't want those terrorists in training getting away...
I don't care who you are, that there is funny!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
A couple of the back-country camping parks that I frequent have a rule: No canned goods allowed. This is because there are jerks that don't pack out their cans when they're done eating out of them, presumably because they're big and bulky.
I can certainly imagine an MRE being a handy meal to pack for a long back-country trip with no refrigeration. We tend to stick to dehydrated items and boil-in-a-bag things, but oftentimes, I'm hungry enough at the end of the day that I wouldn't turn my nose up at anything edible.
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Ever eaten MRE's. I swear, they must be pre-aged!!
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
I'm assuming that you get your water from the tap, more or less. Why would that suddenly cease in case of a snowstorm?
If your water supply is from a house well, then if your electricity goes out (ice on lines or sliding vehicle takes out pole), you will have no running water. There's still folks with wells rather than city water - especially the folks who may need a few days with chainsaws to clear their driveway after a storm.
Stupid horse! I said posse! POSSE!
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MRE's are neither better nor worse than stored canned food. They serve totally different purposes, comparing them is like comparing a drill to a power screwdriver.
MRE's are a "tactical" food. Keeping a few in the trunk ( mind rapid rotation in hot weather) or a case in the closet for a power outage/blizzard is not a bad idea at all, they provide their own everything except water, so a case of 12 MRE's and 24 case of water make a decent short term supply, but don't eat them for days in a row unless you enjoy constipation. For long term emergency storage of food you want regular, cheap, lasts forever canned goods, forget the overpriced canisters of "just add water" emergency rations they advertise on the radio, they are bad for the following reasons
1) horribly over priced
2) totally undesirable outside of crisis, which means no rotation of supplies and 20 years after you buy them when the next "Katrina" hits you will have a years worth of moldy expired crap you cannot eat
3)food is dehydrated, thus if your emergency keeps you from potable water you
3a) cannot prepare your food
3b)will run through your stored water supplies much faster
Conclusion: if you want to be ready for anything, have a case or two of MRE's, but only if you can stomach them occasionally so you eat/rotate your supply, MRE's are not eternal,
medium term food storage in the form of canned goods
long term in the form of seeds and cultivation skills you must develop. Know how to grow apples, cabbage, carrots, potatoes
know how to construct a crude solar still or ferret away a suitable water purification still in the basement
for short term water get a few cases of bottles, also keep water purification tabs on hand so if you have to GTFO in a big hurry (zombies, russians, etc.) You will be able to avoid disease in water, but they will not protect from chemical contamination, such as after a flood (flood water is very bad stuff, some can give you chemical burns on your skin)
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
...is proof that the education system has FAILED in America. Now politicians and bureaucrats raised under a failed education system are starting to make policy and decision while citizens of a failed system are going to vote.
I am personally preparing for the Stupocalypse which is currently in progress and nearing its peak.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
The only way to oppose terrorism being used as a tactic is to not be afraid. Their goal is to terrorize us, so our response should be, "Go ahead. We kill more of us than you ever will. You don't scare us in the least and if you keep annoying us, we'll simply nuke you."
The war on terrorism is having one success. The American people are becoming afraid of their own government. Or, maybe that was the goal all along. We're losing our freedoms one after the other and the central government gets stronger and more oppressive with each passing day.
Whichever way you vote in November won't make a difference. One party may get us to totalitarianism a little quicker than the other party, but make no mistake -- both parties have the same goal. I fear this won't be resolved until there is blood in the streets.
guess the US meets the definition of a terrorist state. we need to boycott ourselves.
or maybe fix the defini.... nah, it's a trick, boycott ourselves! keep America free! -- uh, wait....
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Ever eaten MRE's. I swear, they must be pre-aged!!
If you're in the military or got them from there, quite possibly. The military keeps a rather big stockpile in case of an actual emergency up to and including an extended all-out war. At least here in Norway rather than throw it away soldiers - particularly fresh recruits - get the oldest rations to eat on their exercises, so they can refill the stockpile with new ones without throwing anything away. I don't know about the newer Drytech food, but the old RSPs (our MREs) had a shelf live of at least 20 years so it was not uncommon for recruits to eat food older than they were as military duty usually kicks in at 19. Actually they only stopped buying them 17 years ago, so they might be chowing down the last ones still. From what I hear they actually change very little in taste over those 20 years, but it didn't exactly taste great to begin with...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The sites it comes up with are places like "shtfplan.com" "oathkeepers.org" all linking back to the same story on Oathkeepers (look them up with the SPLC), which they pulled, that is an unconfirmed account that says "A fellow veteran contacted me concerning a new and disturbing development. He had been utilizing a Mormon cannery near his home to purchase bulk food supplies." So it is "I heard somebody say that they knew somebody that said."
That is not "numerous reports" as you claimed, it is one report repeated numerous times and the report is of very poor quality. Granted shit like this gets passed off as "journalism" but that doesn't make it any more accurate or proper in this case.
I'd link to the actual comic, but they are having problems at Blind Ferret right now. It's somewhere in here (or will be when they get back up properly):
http://www.leasticoulddo.com/
Running gag, as it were. Also, it might be "tried to buy" instead of bought. Yeah, good times.
Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
You, like all those other MRE flunkies obviously missed that part about having a far wider range to choose from. Want to achieve particular objectives then select your tinned foods accordingly. Want to be creative with a petrol stove when cooking for a family the select tinned ingredients and cook away. That petrol stove will also be handy if you have a bucket flour, rice or beans, talk about high density storage.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
A wider range would likely include all of the above -- including MREs.
So has anyone else noticed that "Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities" and "Pain In The Ass" have the same starting letters if you turn them into acronyms?
Life, ultimately, boils down to the Four Fs: Fighting, Fleeing, Feeding, and Mating.
7) You're now a Person of Interest.
Well at least someone will find me interesting. They might even arange a get together, where someone will actually pay attension when you keep going on and on about yourself.
I actually heard that you could be sent overseas with all expenses paid! Cuba is a very beautiful tropical country. :-)
The term "Terrorist" is not necessary equals to "Killer"
The real meaning of "Terrorist" is one who commits "TERROR" - which includes, but not necessarily limited to "KILLING"
Hence - your list of what most likely kill Americans is not necessarily the right list in pointing to what a "Terrorist" can do to America - and Americans
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Very interesting. Are there concerns with the safety of self-canned food? I remember reading in maybe early high school science about problems with early canned food attempts, with various toxins getting into the food (maybe it was just the type of cans they were using or something..?)
The site you linked has some general info but just wondering if you had any experience or concerns with that aspect of it.
Although I agree with your (and the GP's) assessment that the fear for terrorism is extremely exaggerated, the statistics you give do not matter much for any person's fear of terrorism. The question is not what the likelihood is of some American dying of terrorism. The question is what my likelihood of dying from terrorism is.
Most people feel they can control lots of those other risks (or make them non-lethal) by caring for their health, eating well, thinking they are a superior driver, etc.
However, they feel they have no control over "death by terrorist" which increases the fear of it by an important factor.
It still not worth all the fuss, but it can explain some of the irrational fear about it.
"Son, in a sporting event, it's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get" - Homer J. Simpson
The biggest concern is with contamination of bacteria or botulism. These are easily avoidable if your follow some basic cleanliness procedures. Some basic things are to not touch the inside of the jar or lid, don't reuse lids (you can reuse rings if they are in good shape) clean your stuff and process it correctly. When I can up stuff the jars have been previously sent through the dish washer with the final rinse being a sanitizing rinse. I put the rings and lids in a pan of boiling water and the jars upside down in another pan of boiling water. This will keep everything nice a sterile until you need it in a few minutes. The food that I put into the jars is very and hot and at a nice simmer and I fill the jar with a clean ladle being careful to not spill onto the rim of the jar. Then put a clean lid on (I use tongs that are sitting in the boiling water with the lids and rings) and then put the ring on. I then put the jar into the pressure canner which is open but has boiling water in it. I repeat this until I have filled the canner or am out of food and then close up the canner. Typically what I can isn't affected (flavor or texture wise) by heat so I prefer to process it at 15lbs of pressure even though I could get away with only 10lbs because I would rather be safe than sorry this is also why I will leave the jars in longer than the minimum recommended time (maybe 5 minutes longer).
.edu site. I learned the basics of canning and preserving from my grandmother and since she gave up pressure canning (she still does jellies and jams) I have most of her canning equipment but she still has her hot water bath canner. Also if you want to get a pressure canner don't think that a pressure cooker will work as the walls on those are too thin and they cool down too fast which can lead to things not being held at the correct temp for long enough.
The site I provided previously was not the one I was originally thinking of as a good site is Colorado State which has a bunch of stuff on canning and preserving food with more detail but at the time I only remembered it was a
Time to offend someone
http://historylist.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/human-deaths-in-the-us-caused-by-animals/
I was looking for the Statistic for number of deaths caused by Deer per year as I remember hearing that it was the most dangerous animal in North America...
They don't count it in that list, but still a healthy (or not) 130/year.
Apparently alergic reactions to bees/wasps are also pretty high at 51/year.
Lassie weighs in at 31.
Closest to 2.3? Bull at 3/year. So you are slightly more likely to get killed by a Bull than by a terrorist.
Lets not forget those exothermic MRE heaters.
Wake me up when a can of beans can cook itself...
Canned beans, unlike dry ones, are already cooked. Warming them is just for palatability.
I am not a crackpot.
Hey i love zombie movies, can't get enough of them, but some say sadly, the earth is not going to face a zombie Apocalypse, so while it's fine and fun to come up with survival scenarios, you don't need to actually put them in practice, no individual needs a AR15
Good point, but my point should still be legible.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...