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Neil DeGrasse Tyson Explains His Christmas Tweet
140Mandak262Jamuna writes Neil DeGrasse Tyson tweeted on christmas day what appeared to begin as a tribute to Infant Jesus, but ended up celebrating Isaac Newton. Apparently this was retweeted some 77000 times, far above his average of 3.5K retweets and caused many to be angry. He doubled down on it by tweeting about people being offended by objective truths. Then wrote a fuller explanation.
"On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642"
The only thing offensive is that some people continue to belief that their religious beliefs should be accepted as "universal truth".
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Everyone has the right to mock, and everyone has the right to be offended. Some mocking is silly, and some offense-taking is silly. As a dispassionate third party observer, I'm having a hard time deciding why I should care about this episode.
But still, never forgiving him for Pluto. Next time pick on a planet big enough to fight back, tough guy.
It must be nice to be the most powerful political force in the world and still be able to bang the drum about how persecuted you are.
The only people offended are the religious people who dont really know anything about their religion.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Okay, I get that there is a vast difference between science and religion (as their should be!) - that said, Neil, dude - there's also a difference between posting verifiable objective truths and, well, being a dick about it.
I know, downmod me if you don't like it, but think for a minute first... there are 7 billion humans on this planet, so don't you think we should, you know, at least try to get along, to show some consideration and kindness? I'm certainly not going to bust into any of Dr. DeGrasse-Tyson's celebrations and go out of my way to tell him why the reason he celebrates it is bullshit - even if I had verifiable fact to provide in support of my doing so.
All I'm saying is this: Dude, show some frickin' *tact* next time.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Tyson's job is to explain things to the masses.
It's his job.
Some conservatives seem to hate him just for being a smart black guy who is associated with science. He's not even really an outspoken liberal or anything. He's just a smart black guy and it drives them CRAZY.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
outspoken popular black science man uses internet to tell people something fascinating and true that really happened. Outraged and offended group who tell people something bombastic and farcical condemn black science mans refusal to adhere himself instead to their thing they tell people, which is absurd and not science. In response, infuriating white television man who 'cant explain that' demands action and protection from imaginary war on pagan shopping holiday. When asked, average American man became furious that neither group were offering a deep fried food he was never promised.
Good people go to bed earlier.
What is funny is so many people will just not get it.
It doesn't matter if he is right which he isn't since that day means different things to different people.
He has just alienated a large number of people for no good reason. His tweet will change no a single mind. All it will do is get praises from his fans.
That is not good science, education. or frankly good manners.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Ever heard the term flamebait?
I mean, after he dies, people are going to wear WWNDGTD bracelets. If they aren't already. I'm enlightened! I worship a different guy than you do!
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Plowing commentary into the miasma of the general public is tantamount to asking for ludicrous criticisms like this. All religion - whether the organized kind that made the world miserable when I was a kid and is now rather toothless, or the commonplace secular humanism of today - is a rote set of rules and propaganda that absolves people from actually thinking. Which is good, because most of the adherents lack the capability for critical thinking and are simply human cattle, marching along a path set by their masters that leads directly to the grave. Say a single thing that violates their catechism, and the knee jerk howls of indignant rage surprise you?
Yet supposedly intelligent people keep doing this, expecting minds to change or something.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
On the other hand, being misunderstood does nothing to contribute to improving the education and awareness of those who misunderstand.
With a succinct message, Tyson started a discussion that spread to thousands of people. Some people misunderstood, and despite the elegance and artistic quality of his written words, that misunderstanding tarnishes his reputation in their minds, and that extends to everything he supports - most notably science and an appreciation of the beauty of the observable world without religious connection. By explaining his meaning clearly, and expressing no wish to offend, some of those people will see the mistake for themselves, and open their minds again to science.
It's not about winning or losing, or of being the stalwart champion of misdirection. It's a matter of graceful interaction with other humans.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Damn that Pope Gregory XIII. He should have left the calendar as it is. It would prevent any alchemists or astronomers born on January 4 from being praised on their birthday when it gets shifted to December 25. What was he thinking! So much for papal infallibility.
Why on earth people are so infatuated with Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Brian Cox (UK) is beyond me. What's next? People magazine, science edition?
Thanks for explaining your opinion.
For those that know of him, they probably already know he is an atheist. For those that don't, a little internet searching on his name will lead to that conclusion. I know I don't care what most people think about religious stuff one way or the other. It doesn't bother me that they think that way, only when they try to get laws and such changed based solely on their religious beliefs does it bother me. Sure, he goes out of his way to keep his name in the public eye, but I don't think this tweet was intended as a lobbying effort, so who cares? If you don't like what he says just ignore him and pray for his soul; be sure to send him a note that you are doing so.
He knew or should have known the reaction his tweets would generate, especially because he so deliberately worded them with the express purpose of offending half of the global population. He obviously intended to marginalize the importance of Christmas to half of the global population, and to be willfully ignorant of the tradition of giving gifts to be representative of the three wise men who came bearing gifts to the manger in celebration of Jesus' birth.
It is the enormous greedy corporations that have turned Christmas into a commercial holiday, not Christians.
So yeah, Neil, I was a fan until this. Now that you've betrayed your obvious ignorance and bias, you can go fuck yourself.
Yes I get the religion sometimes gets in the way of proper science.
Yes I get a lot of people who call themselves religious will be very vocal about disproving of the science because it doesn't match up with what is in their book.
However he hasn't came up with a proof that can be tested to show that God doesn't exist or every aspect of religion is wrong. Science is about observations of the natural world... How do you apply it to the idea of Supernatural?
However if his goal is to teach science. He really needs to stop being enemies of religion. Because his is just turning these people off, where otherwise they would be really good scientists. They are a lot of religious scientists out there. Just as long as the person doesn't take what is in their holy text as word for word truth, they can usually open their mind to allow both to coexist without conflict.
I don't like religious nuts who push their religion onto others using faulty logic to explain their point of view. I also don't like it when atheists just bash religion, just so they can push their personal view, using equally faulty logic.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Very true, but you are missing the point. If I make the statement: "I feel like McRibs are the best damn thing ever" I am entitled to do that. If you, as a vegan, flip out over my choice of words, that's fine too. You can be offended all you want, but I am not obligated to care. Tyson shouldn't clarify his statements to appease people who are offended, because it's implying that he "may" be wrong. It's hamstering, and that's not what men do.
Tyson's life work is education, when he explains something to the masses and someone learns something, he wins. You, on the other hand, want him and others to be losers. This says a lot about you.
It is Ironic that the Dr. used Sir Isaac Newton as a put down of Jesus Christ since Isaac Newton was a Christian and a member of the Church of England. Quite ironic that a leading agnostic uses a Christian in an attempt to refute Christ. Bad tactic and bad strategy. If that's all you have, you haven't much.
I don't believe that any of the offended will care, sadly. They will be upset no matter what, because they hate all things rational and science-related.
Well it is him and it's not him. He baited religious folks on social media and there were ramifications for it. Whether or not he was understood isn't the point. The point is you either believe in your convictions and your right to express them or you fold by catering to the whims of people who don't agree with you. In this case he folded "ohh I have to explain that maybe other people have birthdays that are on Dec 25 and that some are famous." Blah. Shame on the retards who have no grasp on that concept.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
On the other hand, sometimes a strategically applied barb can be pedagogically useful:
In this case, Tyson tweeted something that was orthogonal to Jesus(not that he is actually suspected by scholars of even the distinctly pious persuasion of having been born conveniently on a pagan holiday that needed assimilating; but that's another matter). It didn't denigrate him, question his existence, use the phrase 'purportedly magic jew', laugh at the peasants who were putting up their nativity idols, none of that. It just wasn't about him, it was about Isaac Newton, who was born on that day, and who was a pretty damn titanic figure in the history of science(although also intensely pious, though his religious works are not of much broader interest).
It is, arguably, rather interesting that he provoked a minor firestorm just by talking about someone else. It's a commonplace that some anti-jesus flamebait spread in the right areas would have caused a moderate shitstorm, and so nothing would be proven except one's own somewhat juvenile sense of humor by doing so; but that isn't what he did: he just celebrated a different guy(and pretty damn arguably a worthy one) who shared the same birthday. The fact that that caused a ruckus is frankly interesting, informative, and perhaps even food for thought for those offended. Is Jesus really incapable of gracefully sharing a birthday with one of history's more remarkable physicists? He certainly manages to share it with a load of consumerist gluttony without much comment.
I (mostly) grew out of baiting people purely for sport years ago; but I still think that there is room for discomfort, even unrest, in the context of discourse; and this seems like a good example. Not just flamebait, which would be trivial; but prove nothing; but willing to risk kicking up a fuss. Hopefully a least a few people asked themselves why it was so necessary that exclusivity be defended(especially when other 'meanings of Christmas' like family, presents, pagan conifers, assorted ritualized meals, etc. are handled in parallel without issue. If Jesus can share a birthday with the Jones' traditional honey glazed ham, surely he can share one with Isaac Newton?).
I'm pretty sure it's a reference to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Do you know where your towel is?
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Wrong about what?
I actually read Mr. Tyson's post. I found no hamstering in it. Your problem appears to be with Slashdot characterizing it as an "explanation". In fact, it didn't contain any explanation about the motives or meaning of the tweet. Perhaps it is time to stop blindly believing what the news media feeds you, including Slashdot's slapdash editors.
Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
"People don't think December 25th be like it is, but it do."
- Black Science Guy
I don't quite know how to address this other than to say that I don't think anything you've said in this thread makes any sense. My best guess is maybe you didn't read his actual explanation and assumed it said something it does not?
Point by point:
- The (strange) strawman about a vegan who hates McRibs is an argument about why we shouldn't get mad at Tyson if he didn't make an explanation, but it does not argue against making an explanation in the first place. It's the one point where I agree with you, but it's completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.
- Explaining something to the masses does not mean you lost anything.
- Giving into criticism is not what he did (pulling his tweet or apologizing would be giving in).
- In this case I feel he was right not to give into criticism, but in general, I don't think it's good to imply that giving into criticism is necessarily wrong.
- I don't see any appeasement from Tyson.
- Talking about a thing doesn't in any way imply that what you previously said about that thing may be wrong.
- I had to look up "hamstering" on urban dictionary, and I have to disagree that he did that at all.
- "It's not what men do"? That's a literary flourish without any meat behind it.
How odd. Someone posting as AC saying someone else is a coward.
Typical religious apologist.
Don't you have a clinic to bomb? Or maybe a soldier's funeral to picket?
morcego
This was my reaction. He trolls the people, then protests getting flamed. A follow up of, "ha ha made you look" would have been fine. My general impression is that Tyson thinks a lot, sometimes even of subjects that are not himself.
Tyson paid respect to the birth day of a very important historical figure (who happened to be a devout Christian too). How is that an attack on Christians? Only the most narrowminded people would be able to see it that way.
(a) You know that "hamstering" isn't a word, right?
(b) Please never use the phrase "that's not what men do" ever again.
I challenge anyone to show me where in the Bible it gives the exact birthdate of Jesus.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Does it really matter if ignorant conservatives can't handle reality-based people? Making fun of their absurd beliefs, rather than say locking them in mental hospitals, seems like a pretty good approach to me.
Your fatwa envy makes me embarrassed for you. People like you are the worst.
And his explanation post: https://www.facebook.com/notes...
Tyson's job is to explain things to the masses.
It's his job.
No, it's not.
It's no more his job to explain things to me than it is for some guy to just barge into my home and begin telling me how I should redecorate. I didn't ask him to, I didn't hire him to, I didn't indicate any desire on my part for him to do so.
What his role is, however, is much closer to someone you meet at a social gathering who has views on things. He has no particular obligation to conform to guidelines given to him...but at the same time, it's not exactly wrong to push back on what he has to say either. He wasn't hired, he wasn't even invited, and so it's not like asking someone for their views and then whining when you get them. We're allowed to find fault with the man.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
a) You know that "hamstering" isn't a word, right?
Hamstering is indeed a word, ffs it was used in the previous two posts, this now being the third. It is now an established word.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
On the other hand, being misunderstood does nothing to contribute to improving the education and awareness of those who misunderstand.
With a succinct message, Tyson started a discussion that spread to thousands of people. Some people misunderstood, and despite the elegance and artistic quality of his written words, that misunderstanding tarnishes his reputation in their minds, and that extends to everything he supports - most notably science and an appreciation of the beauty of the observable world without religious connection. By explaining his meaning clearly, and expressing no wish to offend, some of those people will see the mistake for themselves, and open their minds again to science.
It's not about winning or losing, or of being the stalwart champion of misdirection. It's a matter of graceful interaction with other humans.
Based on that perspective, Sarah Palin would be a marvel of helping human knowledge and understanding progress.
Only, she's not :)
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
1 scientist said 1 thing that I didn't like so now I'm anti-science..
C'mon, was I really that fond of science in the first place?
Who do fucking care about religious nuts, either Christian or muslims?
This whole thing reminds of the Back to the Future movie. I was 10 or 11 or so when it came out and I distinctly remember seeing that movie with a kid raised in a fundamentalist baptist household. When Doc Brown said "so do you want to see the birth of Christ" and then set the time machine to Dec 25 0000 I laughed quite hard. The other guy asked me why I thought that was so funny and I spent about 45 minutes trying to explain it to him after the movie. He never got it and was somewhat offended that I found it so funny. After another couple of days discussing this and other things (like creation in 6 days etc.) I finally realized how deeply misinformed people become by being taught about literal interpretation of the bible. I was absolutely amazed at that understanding of the world and it was my first real exposure to this insanity. Up to that day I had always understood bible stories as being just stories (I was raised mildly Catholic but my family was really just going through the motions). It actually makes me very sad to think back to that experience.
Is gerbiling now a word as well?
Some claim the USA is a Christian nation, compelling me to wonder which assault rifle Jesus would choose: the AR-15 or AK-47.
The AK-47 is well-known as the choice of sand people. He'd definitely pick the AK-47.
I see no mockery whatever. A surprise ending, perhaps, worthy of O. Henry, but no mockery. Now, if you want mockery of someone's birthday, go watch "Monty Python's Life of Brian".
I like Neil Degrasse Tyson but his goal was obvious from the first tweet; he comes off like he had a chip on his shoulder and was looking to get a rise out of people. He posts a tweet that amounts to flamebait and then defaults to the usual tactic of criticizing those he sought to offend. In contrast to what he claims in a later tweet, people are offended by the obnoxiousness of his tweets, not the mundane nature of their truths.
Guess what? The world is comprised of a diversity of ideas and beliefs and many of those probably won't fit your particular worldview. This is the kind of nonsense you'd expect from a petulant teenager lashing out at the world.
That said, he's entirely free to say whatever he wants. He just has to accept the fact that the rest of the world is also free to criticize him.
It's not intolerant to bash a Muslim's beliefs, it's just unwise.
That doesn't reflect well on Islam but it's hardly a justification for not taking a pop at Christianity. Unless of course you want Christianity to shelter under the Islamic umbrella of fear?
In my opinion it was just a little joke. Besides, isn't Easter the most important Christian holiday?
Hamstering is indeed a word, ffs it was used in the previous two posts, this now being the third. It is now an established word.
Established word? Not in educated society. You can't even find much use online outside of urbandictionary. Why make up new words when there are perfectly good ones that better describe what you're saying anyway?
Come on Christians, are your beliefs so weak they won't withstand a little good-natured ribbing? I'm not kidding when I say that I think Newton's scientific work will, in the long run, turn out to have a more observable impact than Jesus' teachings, especially since most of his so-called followers don't know those teachings.
No, he gets the point, you're just butthurt over it.
Jesus Christ was not born on December 25th
It just happens to be a day that mopst western Christians celebrate His birth.
Like USians celebrate Washingtons birthday on a monday
And some in the commonwealth celebrate the Queen's birthday on the 1st monday in June, and others on the 2nd monday in June, her actual birthday is April 21 which has significance to another Religion
a calculated and unwarranted troll towards Christians on their numero uno holiday.
A holiday which was forced on people at knife and spear point to co-opt an already existing holiday (nice Christians ya got there), which celebrates the birth of someone who was born sometime in the spring/summer and who has inadvertently led to the deaths of hundreds of millions of people (a billion perhaps?) and which, for the most part, has turned into feeding frenzy of mass marketing Chinese-made cruft to the masses.
Now compare that to Newton who helped get us to the Moon, developed mathematical models to help explore our universe, and who contributed in numerous ways to our understanding of what goes on around us every day such as reflecting telescopes. See for example:
This link and this one for what Newton gave us.
So what did Jesus give us other than death and intolerance, as evidenced by your post?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Why was she offended?
It isn't even the supposed birthday of Jesus.
It's the day that the party is held.
So what was offensive to your wife about it?
You must be assuming he's a Muslim
The same christians that mock the muslims for their defense of Mohammad are the ones going ape-shit over Tyson's tweet...
People like you are the worst.
Actually, people like you aren't doing a lot of good either.
Does it really matter if ignorant conservatives can't handle reality-based people?
Does it bother you that you come out appearing to only acknowledge to camps of thought? My thing with the "Science!" crowd has been their inability to understand the concept of low hanging fruit. When people discuss something you come out swinging you're pretty much alienating someone with an open mind. NDT isn't as bad as you but he wasn't as good about it as Sagan was. That's one reason I cringed when I heard he was to be the next presenter or Cosmos. He really doesn't embrace the open ended aspects of the universe like Sagan did.
Lemmiwinks? Is that you?
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
I didn't ask him to, I didn't hire him to, I didn't indicate any desire on my part for him to do so.
So his tweet just randomly showed up without you following him, or without someone you follow retweeting it? I'd contact Twitter, it sounds like you've found a bug.
Don't axe me man, I didn't make it up. However its what people do, we make up new words all the time. Shit, where do you think all the ones we have came from? Then sometimes we reword old ones to new meanings as well, its amazing how much wording goes on.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Any scientist that is absolutely OK with pissing off uneducated rabid republicans is a hero in my book.
Carl Sagan and others had no problems calling the uneducated what they are. And none of the best human beings on this planet backed down in the face of religious stupidity.
Just Ask Galileo and Giordonano Brunio what it was like to be imprisoned by a bunch of idiots in power.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
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Says the guy that did not graduate Grade school.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The masses who choose to read his stuff still count as masses. Nobody is forcing you to read his post.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Science was already politicized prior to any effort by Tyson. His views are just interpreted as political because they're scientific, and unfortunately "conservatives" have too often aligned themselves with non-scientific viewpoints, thus making scientific viewpoints appear political, in their eyes. Also, I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that his fame and position were gained through means other than merit...
And a perfectly cromulent one, IMO.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
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Obviously they do, since Tyson did and is a man. Why should he, or anyone for that matter, care what someone else thinks their particular configuration of genitalia obligates them to?
Be a hamster or be macho, but if you're either just to fulfil other people's expectations, you're really nothing but a puppet.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
So all those "This day in history" web sites and calendars should not mention anything else on December 25th? Like the Christmas truce, which is an undisputed fact?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
According to your logic, we should also despise Newton because he was a follower of Jesus. At the very least, we should also despise Newton if anyone who ever favored him committed a crime.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
a) You know that "hamstering" isn't a word, right?
Hamstering is indeed a word, ffs it was used in the previous two posts, this now being the third. It is now an established word.
And I am just now using the word carpickterogramicon in a sentence. And I'll now use the word carpickterogramicon again. Counting the usage I'm about make in this sentence, the word carpickterogramicon has now been used 3 times, so I guess it's now an established word.
No, probably assuming he's Christian. Christian Fundies are just as bad as Muslim ones. Letting delusion rule your life is a massive fail.
He needs to find Jesus
https://idne67.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/have-you-found-jesus.jpg?w=708
Why should anyone care what a stupid AC thinks is retarded?
Only Slashdotters would defend this guy for what was clearly a calculated and unwarranted troll towards Christians on their numero uno holiday.
Commercial interests have turned the Christmas holiday into a shop-till-you-drop marathon, and you think Christians are under attack from a simple factual tweet? If he had posted "If you love Jesus, you'll love these deals on Telescopes!" then it'd have been ok, right?
Really, does Tyson have nothing better to do than use Twitter to mock Christians? Are there no pressing issues in the world of astrophysics that could use his towering intellect and staggering genius?
The most pressing issue that he's been working hard to fight against is the lack of science literacy in the country, and open hostility to Science to the point where a science educator can't post a Christmas Day related fact without coming under attack -- and at least Newton was actually born on Christmas (depending on your calendar), as opposed to Jesus -- most biblical scholars agree he was not born on Dec 25th, even if they disagree on when his birth was.
Apparently this one is black, and a scientist.
Why on earth people are so infatuated with Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Brian Cox (UK) is beyond me. What's next?
So we should aspire to be a snarky hipster like yourself?
He's doing important work explaining science in a comprehensible way to a lot of people who aren't scientists. People make important decisions based on whether they understand science. Most of these decision makers are not scientists themselves. The more they know the better the odds that they will avoid stupid decisions. Would you prefer your doctor treat you based on mythology instead of science? A lot of science gets funding because the public supports and trusts science. Scientists in general are terrible at public relations so having some guys like NDGT who are actually good at it is hugely beneficial to all of us.
If you want to get out there and explain science to the masses and can do so with reasonable eloquence then please do. But if all you want to do is be snarky and act cooler-than-thou then please go elsewhere.
Clearly, somebody taught it to yammer in a rough approximation of human speech and temper its uppitiness long enough to be dressed in human clothes. I'm not sure whether that counts as education or not, but it's pretty impressive nevertheless.
Newton was quite religious and thought the mechanistic universe an expression of rather than rebuke to god’s design.
I agree with Newton. :-)
Even if one wanted to do a misdirection about Christmas in a tweet, there are tons more offensive targets one could have chosen related to 25 december:
* The Malkh festival formerly practiced by the peoples of present-day Chechnya, celebrating the birthday of the sun.
* Pakistan celebrates the birthday of the Great Leader, Muhammad Ali Jinnah
* Residents of Chumbivilcas Province in Peru celebrate Takanakuy ("To Hit Each Other"), a fighting-themed holiday where the goal is to get back at people who wronged you during the year, while wearing a traditional ski mask.
* Michael Palaiologos, ruler of Constantinople, has his 11-year-old second cousin blinded so that he is no longer qualified for the throne.
* Columbus runs aground in Haiti due to incompetent management, then proceeds to abuse and enslave the natives that helped rescue his men and supplies.
* Conquistador Pedro de Valdivia is defeated in battle, captured, then roasted and eaten.
* A drunken mutiny involving 1/3rd of the candidates at West Point is finally put down by force and their whiskey is taken away.
* Future president Zachary Taylor leads his troops into an obvious ambush by the Seminoles, leading to serious losses; gets promoted for it.
* The Vietnamese National Party is founded and quickly begins a campaign of assassinations against French officers and Vietnamese collaborators.
* Henri Nannen, later-rehabilitated Nazi propagandist, born.
* A 7,6 earthquake kills 275 people in China
* Scottish nationalist students steal the British coronation stone.
* 44 untouchables in India massacred in revenge for them campaigning for higher wages.
* Cyclone Tracy destroys more than 70% of the buildings in Darwin, Australia
* Jesus Christ, aka messianist Marshall Fields, drives a Chevy Impala through the White House gate.
* Charlie Chaplain dies
* Porn actress Joanna Angel born
* Deposed Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceauescu and his wife are captured, convicted by tribunal, and summarily shot.
* The "underwear bomber" fails
* Plane crash kills 27 people near Shymkent.
I am a proud traitor to my species in alliance with my mother the Earth in opposition to those who would destroy her.
We follow the Gregorian calendar. Newton was born on December 25th of the Julian calender. Newton's birthday isn't for another 6 days.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
But he's a great reminder that one need not choose between being a great scientist and a devout follower of Jesus Christ.
That is technically true it typically means that the scientist is not applying the scientific method to all aspects of their life. A rational scientist would be expected to demand some tangible evidence supporting the assertions made in relation to Jesus. Since most of the "evidence" consists of claims in a book unsupported by credible historical evidence, observed laws of nature and logic, it shouldn't be surprising that scientists in general tend to not be theists. Blind faith and the scientific method are poorly compatible world views if you are disciplined about one or the other. While there are some scientists who are devout, it tends to be a willful blindness on their part.
Basically, just because Newton was smart and got some important stuff right, doesn't mean he was right about everything. You can figure out a lot of physics and still believe in myths and superstitions but it doesn't follow that doing so is rational behavior.
He is director of the Hayden Planetarium, a job which clearly is all about explaining things to the masses.
He has also become a pop figure who does things like the Star Talk Radio podcast, which is all about answering science questions and explaining the universe to the masses in a fun fashion.
However you want to slice it, Mr. Tyson has made it his life's work to be one of many ambassadors of science who have made it their life's work to explain science and the universe to the masses and has done a pretty good job of it in my opinion.
So It is both his literal and figurative job to explain things to the masses.
Seriously? How could you be so foolish as to be offended by someone stating that an actual person was also born on $DATE_OF_ALLEGED_DEITY_BIRTH? Lots of people are born on that day. Who gives a shit!? First off, you fuckers ninja-looted the holiday from the pagans. Secondly, jesus of nazereth might not even have been a REAL PERSON. Pretty much all of the fables in so-called "holy texts" are largely unsubstantiated by legitimate scientific proof, after all. Lastly, no one has any sort of right to NOT be offended! If you're offended by something someone says, that's YOUR problem and you might want to find a constructive way to deal with that. Like maybe, read a book. Try reading The Bible for fucks sake, i mean REALLY READ it. Chances are if you actually read it, you'll figure out it's all bullshit and fairy tales.
I'm a conservative [read: slightly on the conservative side of dead center, with the added bonus of holding views that piss off my friends on both sides of the aisle] evangelical Christian, and I didn't see anything at all offensive about his posts. I've forwarded a couple of them on to my Christian and non-Christian friends. Really, I think this whole thing is an attempt by both Tyson and folks who make a career out of hating him to get media attention.
This happens all the time. Usually they're artists of limited talent who purse attention and fame by first displaying nasty religious bigotry and then retreating behind claims of artistic freedom and "Oh I didn't intend that." One example was "Piss Christ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
Tyson was playing a similarly sleazy game. Offending and then claiming that he did not intend to be "anti-Christian." That's a lie, He deliberately intended to offend to get attention and then claimed to be only stating "objective truths" to finish out that scam.
Talk of "objective truths is also strange coming from him. Google "Tyson lies" and you'f get almost 3 million hits. One thing he's not into, whether the topic is history, philosophy, or even science, is objective truth. He's little more than a retread of long forgotten 19th-century freethinkers, with their claims that everyone before Columbus believed in a flat earth or that there was no evidence that Jesus ever existed.
A better headline to this story would be "Talentless Scientist Uses Tactics of Talentless Artists To Draw Attention to Himself."
You'll also notice that these artists almost always pick on Jews or Christians. They may be talentless and bigoted, but they have no desire to speed up their encounter with God by attacking Islam.
Tyson's job is to explain things to the masses.
It's his job.
No, it's not.
According to Websters, the word job has a definition of "the work that a person does regularly in order to earn money", and since he is being paid to do exactly what he has done, then I think it is his job. The fact that you didn't hire him to do it doesn't change that he has been hired by someone to do it, just like you didn't hire all the pastors at the local churches, but being pastors is still their jobs. If you disagree with what he is saying then don't watch his shows or follow his tweets, just like if you disagree with the philosophy of the local church's pastor don't go to their service.
But publicly mocking other's religious beliefs = being an insensitive asshole. Whoodathunk?
A non-asshole would have tweeted something more like:
"Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642, your contributions to science helped transform the world!"
No reasonable person would have been offended by that and it would have still acknowledged and celebrated Newton's birthday without deliberately trying to be "clever" and belittle others.
I wasn't personally offended, but I can see how others would be, and it absolutely did lower my opinion of him. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I don't think people should post mocking images of Mohammed or joke about "magic underwear" or imply that the Pope is gay or poke fun a Ganesha either. He has a right to say it, but that doesn't preclude him from being considered a jerk for doing so.
I think I just pulled my hamstering while running away from this conversation.
No, it's not.
Yes it is. He is director of the Hayden Planetarium which is part of a museum devoted to the natural sciences. The purpose of a museum and by extension its administration is in part to educate the masses. So yes, it very much IS his job.
It's no more his job to explain things to me than it is for some guy to just barge into my home and begin telling me how I should redecorate. I didn't ask him to, I didn't hire him to, I didn't indicate any desire on my part for him to do so.
Nobody is forcing you to listen to him. He is teaching and providing information to those willing to listen. If you wish to remain willfully ignorant that is your choice. If you are just disliking him because he is a public figure then you have issues you should really work out.
We're allowed to find fault with the man.
You certainly seem determined to do so. Not really sure why. I would suggest you lighten up and try to understand that he is doing a public service since scientists in general are rather bad at public relations and explaining what it is they do and why it matters. If you already know what he is saying then move along because he's not speaking to you.
It's hamstering, and that's not what men do.
I hope that was meant to be hamstringing. If not, I probably don't want to know.
Oddly enough Tyson's Tweet probably would have offended the very person he purported to celebrate. Newton did believe in God and did believe in Christ. I don't think anyone would believe that Newton was ignorant. There's nothing special about this time that make the existence of God more unbelievable except that certain groups of people want to believe in their own superiority to others and those that choose to follow them like, dare I say, sheep. This situation is neither unusual nor is it unique. Even in Christian beliefs you have groups who claim superior knowledge to others.
Whereas Tyson has decided to waste his talents deriding a group of people he considers less enlightened than himself, Newton thought he could see God in creation.
All in all, it's disappointing to see someone like Tyson stoop to baiting people with provocative statements. A "Happy birthday Newton" would have worked just as well without editorializing on other peoples' beliefs.
Luckily not all Atheists are as childish as Neil DeGrasse Tyson, which makes having a rational discussion with them possible.
sam
We can start by putting "Christ" back in "Christian". Cristianity is a religion of loving not only those like you, but also loving and forgiving those who would do you harm.
What Would Jesus Do about Tyson's tweets? I think he would chuckle.
We should declare Dec 25 a national holiday!
The birth of the man for whom the unit of mass was named.
I guess that was a bit forced.
It's funny, I can't think of ever meeting a person who doesn't understand that it's a celebration, not an anniversary.
I know quite a few people who think it is an actual birthday. A few get quite hostile if you suggest otherwise. These are not highly educated people but they believe what they are capable of understanding.
Are there any Christian denomination that has as dogma a fixed date of 12/25 (or any other date) as the birth day anniversary of Jesus? I can't think of any.
Probably but that kind of misses the point. I would suggest that a huge percentage (probably the majority) of the devout don't really understand a lot of the finer details of their faith. Much like math class, just because you sat in the lecture doesn't mean they comprehended what was said. I think a lot of people attend because of social pressure or due to personal insecurities rather than with the intent to really comprehend.
http://www.neildegrassetysonli... Pop science. A bit pricey in my town.
I thought he was going to say, "Happy Birthday ... Saturn"
:-D ba dum tish
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Christians on their numero uno holiday.
Easter is the numero uno holiday for Christians. Christmas is second (or third depending on who you ask).
I have a difficult time understanding the impetus that drives random people on the internet to lecture perfect strangers on how they should live their lives.
At the very least, we should also despise Newton if anyone who ever favored him committed a crime.
Based on the number of people who use weapons based on Newtonian physics to kill, Newton may be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
Did Newton personally force anyone to adopt Christianity?
Someone can condemn the enormity of the crimes Christians have committed against humanity in the name of their religion without condemning everyone who claims to be a Christian.
It certainly is a case of 'the few' making a lot of noise, and certain media outlets amplifying it. Meanwhile, the vast majority of people have no feelings at all about such a trivial thing.
At the very least, we should also despise Newton if anyone who ever favored him committed a crime.
Based on the number of people who use weapons based on Newtonian physics to kill, Newton may be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
Haha, I was just going to post that, with the emphasis on how Newton masterminded the only historical deployment of nuclear weapons against civilian population centers.
Martin Luther King Jr. shares a Birthday with Skrillex on January 15th.
I know who I'll be tweeting in thanks. /trollface
Tyson was no different.
Why make up new words when there are perfectly good ones that better describe what you're saying anyway?
It embiggens the English vocabulary. Do you have any idea how many words William Shakespeare made up? Language evolves. If you don't like it, then start speaking Latin.
Tweeting on Christmas day and starting your tweet as "On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world." is an obvious attempt at misdirection where most people (non-Christians included) would assume is is talking about Jesus. Then to suddenly reveal you are really talking about Issac Newton is a way of playing a joke on the reader.
Sounds like a creative way to inform people of a fact to me. Pretty funny and clever actually.
But instead he drew obvious parallels to Jesus in an attempt to misdirect, and bring up the topic of Christmas while making a point of ignoring it. This joke he played on the reader is why people are upset. It was a dick thing to do, and he should not be surprised that this upset some people.
I'm sure Mr Tyson is not entirely surprised at the reaction but I strongly disagree that it was "a dick thing to do". Why should he have to walk on eggshells around their faith when they don't even pay attention to the teachings of they guy they are trying to protect? Didn't Jesus preach something about turning the other cheek?
. . . he demonstrated a kernel of cleverness. He's a witch! We must burn him for upsetting the simpleminded villagers!
That is, an "apatheist" or someone who gives not one whit about what you believe or don't believe as long as you leave me the hell alone about it, too - and as someone who does like and respect NdGT, I was annoyed at his tweet.
Why?
For approximately the same reason that I get annoyed with people who insist on saying "Keep Christ in Christmas".
Christmas is a thing, okay? It's generally accepted to be celebrated on December 25 by the (at least US) public at large by taking the day off of work, having a feast with your family and exchanging gifts, and is anchored around the (factually incorrect) idea of a special child being born on that day.
If you take part in that, great. I am glad that you are enjoying the grand traditions of togetherness and giving.
If you don't, that's cool, too.
If you're somewhere in the middle, where you don't believe, but give gifts; or if you believe but don't like the materialism and put that aside, I don't fault you anything. It's all personal, and it's all relative.
Okay, now let's get to my problem here. And that's smug atheists.
Bear in mind, I fall into the crowd of cool atheists, who aren't cool because they're atheists, but cool because they're not smug douchebags about it. They don't judge with nasty, superior attitudes everyone who believes . They don't insist on turning every conversation into "why my lack of belief is awesome" or tee-hees over the Flying Spaghetti Monster or blah-blah-I'm-superior-cakes. They don't look for the opportunities to make themselves into a persecuted minority to throw in the faces of any perceived slight. They go along about their business as if this one small detail doesn't matter.
Here's the thing: Newton didn't build Christmas the holiday as we know it. The belief in Christ (and some fellow who started a tradition of giving gifts) did. Sorry that you want to take Christ out of Christmas (maybe NgDT doesn't, but there are plenty of douchebag atheists out there who re-tweeted the message as if somehow Christmas got OWNED or some crap like that). For the most part, people aren't going to shove Newton into Christmas because Mr.-Rockstar-Science-Guy made a connection.
Hell, I'm not. And I'm a freaking engineer! Some things, some traditions, they're fine. They don't need a Science Bonus tacked onto them because I don't really believe in the Son of God. I'm just happy for some relaxed time at the end of the year with family.
Besides, I'd hate for Newton to be what Jesus is: a sacred and untouchable symbol brandished (by certain individuals) to justify our own likes and dislikes.
But atheists wouldn't do THAT now, would they? I mean they never used science as a justification to look down on other people, have they?
For some reason, this post reminded me of this:
A story by David Moser...
This Is the Title of This Story, Which Is Also Found Several Times in the Story Itself
This is the first sentence of this story. This is the second sentence. This is the title of this story, which is also found several times in the story itself. This sentence is questioning the intrinsic value of the first two sentences. This sentence is to inform you, in case you haven't already realized it, that this is a self-referential story, that is, a story containing sentences that refer to their own structure and function. This is a sentence that provides an ending to the first paragraph.
[http://consc.net/misc/moser.html]
hamstering
When a person or company tries to get out of a situation, by finding a loophole to get through, or coming up with some kind of bullshit excuse.
Much like a hamster tries anything to escape its cage.
and the smug, arrogant pathological liar will be retelling the anecdote to a hall full of his arrogant, smug liberal followers.
But, by then it will have become a tale of having to dodge bullets/RPGs/missiles/nukes fired at him by knuckle-dragging christianist Repugs.
The "underwear bomber" fails
Just don't start celebrating this with gifts pertaining to the event.
Doesn't matter if he's black, doesn't matter if it he's a "science dude." A troll is a troll, and he just earned the title with a tweet specifically intended to provoke a reaction from "the other side" while making his "followers" feel all smug. Mission accomplished. Many folks (myself included) now think less of him.
I think many people are forgetting that Newton and Christ do not share the same birthday...
Forgetting also that only one of them actually existed. Protip - it was Newton.
We're talking about a guy that makes up facts and quotes that fit his 'message.' This has been detailed before
He provided the mathematical description. People were using kinetic energy of objects hurled at great speed to the other party before he did that.
Bert
Yes, but you are a nobody. Dr. Tyson is an advocate for science, so alienating 40% of the population isn't really a good thing.
"and that's not what men do."
Men don't clarify things that get mistaken? Seriously?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That's not what makes a word, you ghyieheadre.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. If he is going to joke about it, it should obviously begin with "Jesus isn't a planet."
'Word change' is not an excuse for being an idiot, nor is it an excuse for being wrong.
What we have today is a bunch of people who can't own up to making a mistake so they say 'Words change' instead of. 'sorry my mistake'.
And we have the internet, so the reason words change is now gone.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You tell me. You replied to him, two-million-plus ID breath.
Also verbing - which as we all know weirds language/
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
lets ask richard gere
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
I am trying to understand this better, a scientist (who is an atheist), angers a few Christians for stating a fact.
OK for those of you about to argue that Isaac Newton wasn't technically born on Dec. 25th, neither was Jesus. There is plenty of research to back up the fact that Jesus was most likely born in September. The reason that Christmas is celebrated on December 25th is to put it in contention with other end of the year celebrations (religious and secular) like Hanukkah.
I also heard him say that the earth is more than 5 billion years old, and the universe is around 13.8 billion years old. Why aren't these people yelling at him about these scientific observations?
Not even sure if this christ fella was even born, and if he was real, the book of fairy tales really places his birth in September
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
The christians shouldn't have been checking their tweets, they should be on their knees in church......
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
I learned today that there was a disagreement among Christians as to when their god was born. If one group follows one calendar and the other group follows a different one, and they both say December 25th, who was right? I find that kind of amusing.
and according to the stars in the fairy tale, this jesus bloke, was born sometime in september
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
It is, arguably, rather interesting that he provoked a minor firestorm just by talking about someone else. It's a commonplace that some anti-jesus flamebait spread in the right areas would have caused a moderate shitstorm, and so nothing would be proven except one's own somewhat juvenile sense of humor by doing so;
About 2000 years ago, there lived a man that may have agreed with you. I'm sure you have heard of him, you may even recognize him by his initials, JC, as everyone still talks about him today. We know that he was born unlike most men. And as he matured, he had many followers, but also had those who were afraid of the would-be-king, so they put him to death. Yes, Julius Caesar left a legacy that influenced generations. Anyway, what was your point?
Except he never intended it to be flamebait.
There's two general camps among science communicators, there's one camp that goes straight for the hard truths and controversial subjects with the idea that you fix the root cause and the rest is easy, this tends to be the Richard Dawkins camp.
The other side basically says communicate as much as you can but try to avoid offending people by being non-controversial as possible, I've always thought of that as the Neil DeGrasse Tyson camp.
The tweet here essentially a corny joke ie "huh, Tyson is writing about the birth of Jesus, I didn't think that was his thing... ohh Newton, now I get it, haha Mr. Tyson". There is nothing flamebaity or controversial about it as he intended it.
The problem is the religious right is embracing a culture of victimhood to compete with the left, attempts to reduce the degree of Jesus talk around Christmas become an attack to their right to talk Jesus, hence the "war on Christmas".
Viewed through that light the joke now becomes "Hey Jesus-folk, I'm on your side putting Jesus back in Christmas... ha ha! Just kidding, it was just Newton!"
And since they're actively looking for reasons to become offended, they become offended.
I stole this Sig
What's it like being an asshole? I mean, seriously... I've always wondered, and presented now with the opportunity, please, what's it like?
Some conservatives seem to hate him just for being a smart black guy who is associated with science.
I don't know anyone who feels this way. And I read a lot of conservative blog stuff, and none of the top conservative bloggers feel this way.
However, the top conservative bloggers have pretty much written Mr. Tyson off as a self-important troll.
His version of Cosmos seems to be as much about trashing religion as it is about science. Right in the first episode of his version of Cosmos there was a weirdly slanted retelling of a historical incident, as if he had to go out of his way to slam religion.
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/historians-of-science-poke-holes-in-new-cosmos-series
Just recently the blogs were mocking him for his tweet speculating that the Bill of Rights would probably have had 12 things in it if humans had 12 fingers. The actual history is so easy to check and clearly he didn't bother. (There were actually 12 Amendments proposed, and after the debate 10 of them got passed. Hey, maybe if humans had 10 fingers only 10 Amendments would have been proposed and 8 passed? Um...)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/23/if-we-had-12-fingers-i-wonder-whether-the-bill-of-rights-would-have-been-12-amendments-long/
But the thing that catapulted him to prominence and made everyone write him off as a troll was when a blogger started trying to track down the actual history of stories Mr. Tyson said had happened to him. In one story, he said that he was serving on a jury, and he smugly pointed out that the amount of drugs at issue in the case was listed as a trivially tiny amount; but worse was his claim that George W. Bush invoked astronomy in an effort to be religiously divisive. The blogger couldn't find any evidence that these stories actually happened, and found persuasive evidence that they were fabricated. Then, when he was called on this, Mr. Tyson doubled down. Finally, he issued a non-apology apology.
http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/16/another-day-another-quote-fabricated-by-neil-degrasse-tyson/
http://thefederalist.com/2014/10/02/neil-tysons-final-words-on-his-quote-fabrications-my-bad/
I must confess that before the above-listed events occurred, I considered myself a Tyson fan. Looking back, I knew very little about him, other than that he seemed to know a lot about science and seemed to be able to communicate it. Now, having read those stories, he seems to me more like a self-promoter who is using science as his "in" to make people pay attention to him.
P.S. If you have any actual evidence to support your claim, that some conservatives hate Mr. Tyson because he is "a smart black guy who is associated with science," please provide this evidence. URLs to hateful blog posts would be a good start. You get a gold if you can find a top conservative blogger (Drudge, Ace of Spades, Hot Air, Michelle Malkin, etc.) who holds this position; but I'll still give a bronze if you can find anyone.
oh dear, projecting much, are we?
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
they tend not to go out of their way to kill you if they disagree, I know, calling people names is just as bad, if not worse than murder though
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
No, and no. Tyson has been trolling religious nutbars for decades. He didn't give in to criticism, he just twisted the knife when people demanded clarification. Make no mistake -- religion is more of threat to our species than global warming and nuclear winter combined. More than three-quarters of the population of the planet's last existing superpower are religious, and nearly half of them believes their messiah is going to return to them in their life time. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that these nutbars have exactly zero interest in solving the problems confronting our species because they truly believe that they aren't going to be around to have to deal with them.
No what makes it a word is that it is used in a sentence.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Please follow along: Jesus founded His Church. His Church founded centers of study and learning, and institutionalized these as colleges and universities. Among these were the colleges merged to form Trinity College where Newton studied.
Ironic.
I find it more disturbing that anyone would actually care that he made a joke out of it.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights (Freedom of Speech) states that separation of church & state means that there cannot be a state sponsored religion. Remember, most religious people that came to America did so because they were persecuted by the Church of England, and were not too keen on having that happen again. Freedom of religion is not freedom from religion.
That joke must be relying on Newtonian physics, because it was loaded into a catapult and just WHOOSHED over your head.
is that he seemingly intended to offend. Let's not be idiots here. The wording was specifically chosen to draw reference to Jesus. The proof? Everyone got "the joke." Isaac Newton isn't a target of contempt with Christians. But this statement seems to be intentionally baiting, and most clever people will realize that before saying it.
(a) You know that "hamstering" isn't a word, right?
(b) Please never use the phrase "that's not what men do" ever again.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hamstering
"Word" since at least 2008. Unless you argue that ain't ain't a word as well...
Actually, Galileo backed down at the end. He learned an important lesson. Never underestimate how frightened religious people are of their gods, prophets, clergy, etc. They would never say anything irreverent about any of their religious icons or deities. They are frightened that they will be held accountable for allowing anyone else in the world for disrespecting what they fear. Even today, there are people who would burn you at the stake or stone you to death for saying that Jesus was not the Messiah, or that Muhammad was not a prophet, etc.
They will react with real hostility to the notion that "Your sacred cow makes great hamburger".
This link and this one for what Newton gave us.
Let's not forget the guy Newton got his optics and celestial mechanics from. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/781...
so as the romans were in Palestine at the "assumed" jesus, they must have used the Julian calendar as well so that makes his mythical birth the same day as Newtons
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Be careful. We don't talk about (you know what) outside of (you know where).
"Word Change' does not exist. It is just a liberal hippy environmentalist conspiracy to destroy our way of life.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Embiggens? What a perfectly cromulent word.
He was either very tone deaf when he did that or he did it on purpose.
If he did it on purpose, maybe he wasn't not looking to start a war, but he definitely wanted to be mischievous.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Very filbisteric of you. If only I could hergmo such peolistic amacronisms.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Sorry if you think it makes me an asshole for throwing TheCarp's faulty reasoning right back at him in an absurd demonstration of why it was faulty. Would you be happier if a couple of slashdot ACs also used the word, and I created my own urban dictonary entry for the word? I know lots of people who make up words and meaning for things, and other people in their circle of friends use those in turn. That doesn't make them established words. Instead, we call that "slang".
If you objected to DeGrasse Tyson's tweet, then be constructive and make a suggestion as to what he should have done differently.
Ever hear of the term humor?
I think Newton would have, as most men of academia, selected the ar-15 over the ak-47. Its lighter for one thing, and the ballistics look more elegant on paper.
Which is weird because Newton wrote more books about Christ than he did about physics. Yes, Isaac was a theist and probably 1000 smarter than you.
The balls of someone suggesting we celebrate some nut who packed a bomb in his underwear!! That's enough to make a lot of people testy.
I am saddened in a way that the guy didn't have a partner so we could label them a pair of nuts...but you can't have everything.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
Tyson and the rest of the world is making the assumption Christ was born on Dec. 25th. Last time I checked my Bible doesn't give a date. If his comments were twofold to make an incited up remark as well as jab/rib the Christians he missed his mark with me.
Interestingly I'd be curious if he takes to twitter for Muslim holidays to do something similar. I'm sure there would be some religious folks on that side who get equally (or dangerously) offended. LOL
Whether you accept his divinity or not, it is pretty well accepted that he was a real person.
Nah. Even LoB was clearly intended as a story about a different guy. They even showed Jesus in the movie, to emphasize that this is a different person they are talking about.
It was a story about someone being popularly deified when they clearly weren't in fact a deity. That certain Christians took the depiction of this possibly happening as an attack on their own faith says a lot more about their own insecurities than it does about the movie. (This is coming from a Christian, btw.)
Are either of us prohibited from celebrating because the other owns the day? Should we have checked our birth certificates for exact times, so that the earlier could claim the day and the later could never celebrate again? Oh dear, I bet we're not the only two humans born on that particular day; probably not even the only ones in our city, let alone the country, let alone the world. Maybe we should all get together to fight it out . . . or, better idea, we should all get together for a PARTY.
Who do fucking care about language nuts, either grammatical or spelling?
I'll throw my two cents worth into the noise. I am an Orthodox Christian clergyman, and I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson's tweet is humorous, as well as objectively true. I am at a complete loss why anyone would be angered by it. People are so quick to hate these days, for no reason whatsoever. Truly we are in the end times.
Proverbs 21:19
The news are flowing slow today.
In addition to doing his job admirably well, as a bonus present he also makes twits like you angry. That's great. Please keep fuming. The popcorn is already here. Go on! You're hilarious.
It reminds me of this xkcd: http://xkcd.com/169/
Other ways he could have stated this:
We shouldn't forget that Isaac Newton's birthday is Dec. 25th, 1642. His work transformed the world. Happy Birthday!
or
Happy Birthday Isaac Newton, b. Dec 25, 1642. Thank you for the laws of motion, the universal law of gravitation, and calculus.
or
Happy Birthday Isaac Newton (b. Dec 25, 1642)! He did more before age 30 than most of us do in a lifetime. Thanks for transforming the world
Or so many others. If his point was just to alert people that Isaac Newton was born on Dec. 25th and we should celebrate that fact, he wouldn't have phrased it to intentionally mislead people.
One correction: the right wingers literally invented false victimhood. Please see the Reagan era for many, many, many, many, many, many, many citations.
Except he never intended it to be flamebait.
This is quite disingenuous. The way he phrased his 'tweet' was purposeful. I personally don't care about what Tyson says or what other people think about what he says. I doubt that I am in the minority either. Even if thousands responded to him negatively (and was he that dumb that he thought that no one would? Really??) the reaction would still amount to a small minority of twitter users, which according to the company's last year numbers they had 232 million users.
Yes, it was flamebait.
The problem is the religious right is embracing a culture of victimhood to compete with the left
The bigger problem is people who are responsible for representing a scientific message not being culturally sensitive to have enough tact, even if they disagree with that culture. For example the importance of teaching people the science of climate change should lead to a degree of restraint in other not very related public arenas such as holidays.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Even that movie (which if you recall, also very much upset the fundamentalists...) wasn't so much a mockery of Jesus himself, but rather the gullible follower-mentality.
Tyson's job is to explain things to the masses.
Really? You've been sending him checks for your share of this mass education, have you? While a professor and occasional host of science programs, his job is no more to explain things to the masses than mine, or yours.
I'm here EdgeKeep Inc.
Do you see all of the other definitions for that word as well? All of them are stupid.
It's hard to know his intentions, he does tend to be a bit smug, but I might just be reading into him. As a Christian, I think it's pretty cool Newton's birthday was on Dec 25th. I'd put a Newton ornament on my Christmas tree. He was scientists, mathematician, inventor and theologian.
What's even worse is that Jesus was born in the spring "while shepherds were watching their flocks by night." The actual date is unknown. The date was moved to December 25th to compete with the feast of Saturninus.
Actually, from what I read (in Frazer's Golden Bough) the nativity of Christ was first celebrated by early christians in Egypt in January, starting from the 2nd century BC. It was later moved to December 25th by the roman church to compete with the cult of Mithras, a sun-death-and-rebirth deity that was very popular in Rome at the time. The mithraists (if that is the word..) celebrated the birthday of the sun on December 25th, and this festival was popular to the point that Christians also participated in it. This happened sometime in the 4th or 5th century after Christ (if I recall correctly), and according to Frazer there are historical records from the time documenting the change and even the motivation for it.
Nope.
Except he never intended it to be flamebait.
This is quite disingenuous. The way he phrased his 'tweet' was purposeful. I personally don't care about what Tyson says or what other people think about what he says. I doubt that I am in the minority either. Even if thousands responded to him negatively (and was he that dumb that he thought that no one would? Really??) the reaction would still amount to a small minority of twitter users, which according to the company's last year numbers they had 232 million users.
Yes, it was flamebait.
Flamebait means you're trying to stir controversy and draw fire by annoying the other side. If he wrote something like On this day long ago, one of the greatest non-mythical people in history was born. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642 it would be definite flamebait. His second tweet QUESTION: This year, what do all the world's Muslims and Jews call December 25th? ANSWER: Thursday probably is a bit of flamebait, but the first tweet isn't. If anything it's a fake flamebait, "I'm going to step in this contentious issue... no I'm not!".
The problem is the religious right is embracing a culture of victimhood to compete with the left
The bigger problem is people who are responsible for representing a scientific message not being culturally sensitive to have enough tact, even if they disagree with that culture. For example the importance of teaching people the science of climate change should lead to a degree of restraint in other not very related public arenas such as holidays.
I agree that's an issue but it's not the issue here.
There's a common pattern in US media that plays out multiple times per year. Someone says something that sounds kind of objectionable, one side lines up to act as offended as they can and the other side lines up to justify the statement or defend the speaker. Eventually the speaker either doubles down or apologizes and everyone gets bored and moved on.
That's exactly what happened here, just another iteration of the Kabuki Dance of inadvertently offensive statements.
That's not to say there are legitimately offensive things said on both sides of any issue, but I don't see it here.
I stole this Sig
Christians on their numero uno holiday.
Easter is the numero uno holiday for Christians. Christmas is second (or third depending on who you ask).
DIE HERETIC!
People are upset that an aspie scientist lacks some basic social context ?
As a Christian, I personally find nothing offensive in any of these tweets. Even if it were somehow offensive, the reactions described are knee-jerk and unlikely to bring any change in outcome.
At what point did we start looking for things to be offended at?
I do not have to be a Christian to find the obvious undertones of hatred and intolerance in his tweet.
I do not see any reason to get that mad about it, but the tweet, even though it is without slurs and typically offensive language, is obviously aimed at diminutizeing Jesus. It is no coincidence that 100% of people would of though we was talking about Jesus up to the very end, because that was his purpose. The entire point of the tweet was an attack on Jesus, just because he is a smart well spoken guy that can pull it off without swear words does not change that fact.
So it is an offensive tweet, a tweet whose only purpose is to attack a specific group of people. But in the grand scheme of things is is really not a big deal.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Or fourth for the pentecostals. (I believe parent is an offshoot known as the pentepostals) Easter, Good Friday, and Pentecost are big deals for Christians for theological reasons. Christmas is a celebration with little theological implications.
Now for the punch line, Isaac Newton was very devote and believed there was all kinds of deeper meaning, including scientific, in the Bible. He ought be as much a hero of Christianity as Science. People need to take a chill pill.
The one with the bigger stick is right, of course.
I refuse to sign
"which assault rifle would Jesus choose"
For the disciples? He would suggest the one that they could buy by selling their cloaks.
Peter would choose one with good enough aim to shoot a man's ear off at two paces.
No, probably assuming he's Christian. Christian Fundies are just as bad as Muslim ones. Letting delusion rule your life is a massive fail.
Yup, was assuming he is a Christian. Not necessarily a fundie, tho. "Moderate" Christians are just as bad, albeit in a different way. They are, at least, condoning the evil done by others in the name of their religion.
"Oh, but they are not REAL Christians, they don't follow the REAL message". And who decides what is the real message? So many different bibles (including the oldest ones, that show how much they changed over the centuries). So many interpretations. So many contradictions. So many excuses, apologies and lies of convenience. So many parts that get ignored because they are less moral than the moral developed by society. It is all true. Except the parts you don't like. Those don't apply anymore. Or you are reading it wrong.
morcego
He must have known his tweet was going to offend many people, as well as the many people who retweeted it. Shame on anyone who unnecessarily offends others, but even more shame on people so easily offended. Many stopped following Jesus because they were ''offended,'' and he asked his disciples if they would do the same, so it's pretty clear what his thoughts on the matter were
I am a Christian. I got a chuckle out of Tyson's post and I suspect many other Christians did as well. Good flamebait catches even those with a sense of humor.
The issue isn't whether or not Dec 25 is Jesus' b-day (it most certainly is NOT, scholars place that in the spring of the year).
The issue isn't whether or not Christians should have been offended or not.
The issue isn't whether or not Christians are all collectively hallucinating the existence of God.
What matters is that Tyson picked that particular day for a particular purpose, to troll the Christian community.
The tweet like previous tweets was a snarky comment meant as a dig against Christians. It annoyed me when I read it. His explaination is not an apology. Am I offended? At first I was but the Bible stresses us not to take offense.
While watching Cosmos I enjoyed most of it till he attacked Christianity now and then. Carl Sagan wasn't a Christian but he didn't attack Christianity. I mean if you are an Athiest why bother? Much of science is theory and only some of it can be proven. To attack and make fun of those who you consider fools only to raise yourself is not an admirable trait. I don't know what Neil's problem with Christians is but he's got a serious anger issue. He has a deep seated hatred for the Christian God. That is usually due to a deep loss of a loved one after spending a lot of time in prayer. It is for that reason I pity Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He carries a spiritual wound. Why else would he care so much what the Christians believe and why attack them? Same goes for those nativity scene attacks and the distorted belief in separation of church and state. Who cares if there's a nativity scene on the town square for a few weeks or if there's a Ten Commandments in the court house?
Holy fuck, it was a fucking joke. "Whoosh" doesn't apply here, because it went so far over your head that it didn't make a sound. Fucking idiot.
including Slashdot's dipshit editors
FTFY. HTH. HAND.
Neil was clearly mocking one of our most sacred holidays, Santa Claus day, where we lie to children about an imaginary omniscient, near omnipotent, and briefly omnipresent being who rewards good and gives evil a reminder of fire. Santa Claus, of course, is based on the real historical character Saint Nicholas. The rewards are presents placed under a decorated evergreen tree (no relation to similar trees used to celebrate the winter solstice**) and preceded by about a month of winter-themed songs (also no relation to the solstice) whose purpose is definitely not to remind grownups that they must be extra materialistic for a while.
Christians, of course, insist that this holiday is a celebration of the birth of Christ, a very-real-and-definitely-not-made-up-this-time-we-swear omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being who rewards good and punishes evil with eternal hellfire. Furthermore, he is so holy he can't forgive anyone without a human sacrifice, with the caveat that the sacrificed human must be entirely innocent. He is said to be very forgiving, though critics say he would die before he would forgive anyone of anything. This is also the historical figure Joshua*, who was miraculously conceived out of wedlock by the (hand?) of God and born from a virgin. Non-Catholic Christians frequently confuse the holiday (Christ's Mass) as being the anniversary of his birth. Christians celebrate Christmas in much the same way as non-believers, besides also going to church and getting upset at people who aren't Christmassy enough for them.
Anyhow, my point is that pretty much everyone disrespects Christmas, and it is extremely well-accepted to do so, at least in the traditional manner.
*Joshua, of course, is a more direct if less unique transliteration of the name, though if you prefer to transliterate first to Greek and then Latin you get Jesus.
** Grinches and cynics take note, it is advantageous to have celebrations around the time of the winter solstice to counteract the tendency toward depression caused by the record low light levels around this time.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
People start reading that tweet and their associations light up before they are through (cold, snow, shopping - Jesus) and they expect to read it's about Jesus but then suddenly - SNAP!
It ain't.
Then they realize at about the same time that what they are reading IS true and that their prejudice caused them to be wrong about such a trivial thing.
That's when the E (as in ego) comes in, and the following train of emotionally loaded thoughts rushes through their minds:
"That ain't fair. I WAS right. He changed the rules. It was SUPPOSED to be about Jesus. I can't be wrong! I'm smart and shit! He's making fun of me. But he can't be making fun of ME - cause I WAS right and I AM smart. HE MUST BE MAKING FUN OF JESUS!!!111eleven! HE'S CALLING JESUS AN ASSHOLE AND SAYING THAT CHRISTMAS IS BULLSHIT!"
They are not actually thinking all that.
It's purely an unconscious thing, with only the final result floating up to their conscious mind.
Their minds are offering them a way out of feeling embarrassed about their own fault, by being angry about someone else's perceived fault.
It's a defense mechanism.
It's the same thing as being angry at spilled milk (or the container it came in) instead of crying over being clumsy.
It hurts less when your problem is someone else's fault.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Gunnery Chief: This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight. Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kilotomb bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space. Now! Serviceman Burnside! What is Newton's First Law?
First Recruit: Sir! A object in motion stays in motion, sir!
Gunnery Chief: No credit for partial answers, maggot!
First Recruit: Sir! Unless acted on by an outside force, sir!
Gunnery Chief: Damn straight! I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty. Once you fire this husk of metal, it keeps going till it hits something. That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you're ruining someone's day, somewhere and sometime. That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait for the computer to give you a damn firing solution! That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not "eyeball it!" This is a weapon of mass destruction. You are not a cowboy shooting from the hip!
Second Recruit: Sir, yes sir!
I think that's more of a cultural thing than religious. I assure you that fundies of all religions are quite murderous in the less civilized parts of the world.
Lebanese Christian militias terrorizing, murdering, and raping Islamic and Druze refugees and villages from the 70's to 90's? Lord's Resistance Army?
Army of God?
Concerned Christians?
"Jesus was the first Klansman"?
National Socialist Council of Nagaland's conversion of the Naga to Christianity, by the sword?
Eric Robert Rudolph and the Centennial Olympic Park bombing?
Frankly, I'm less scared of my Muslim coworker than any devout Baptist that hails from south of the Mason-Dixon.
Shame on you.
It's hard for a moderate Christian to accept that they're just as culpable for the murder, rape, and terrorism committed by fundamentalist Christians as every single Muslim they paint with their own culpability brush.
Nobody likes to look in the mirror and see the evil they hate; so they choose to delude themselves with justifications for their form of evil.
I'm not a Christian, but you've nailed it. It was an indictment of followers, not Christ. The only explanation for the outrage is their own insecurity. It's hard to back up blind faith, and even harder to defend it from attack and you yourself don't really understand it.
Nonsense. Einstein gets all the credit for that. Every single weapon today is based on mass-energy equivalence.
Of course, if ballistic weaponry had not existed prior to Newton, you'd have a much better argument...
He passes to Moses...
He shoots..
HE SCORES!!!
It's almost as if scientific learning and schools didn't exist before Christ. I bet if Christ hadn't come around, founded his Church, which eventually led to the Trinity College's formation, Newton would have been a mentally deficient chimney sweep.
Not ironic at all, really. Simply a misattribution of credit.
Now, you want some real irony? Much of Newton's success in celestial mechanics and physical sciences hinged on work by al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham, an Iraqi Muslim. So perhaps we have Muhammad to thank for Newtonian Physics?
Yotube
A fact that needs purging from the history books. The very idea that the enemy is human needs to be vigorously denied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Maybe I'm missing the joke but how did Newton do that in the 17th century?
Not random; unctuous.
You obviously have not the shittiest clue what the Gospel is about. People have done atrocities in the name of Science, of God, of Devils, of Peace, of Justice or whatever you can think of. But the teaching found in the New Testament are extremely biased towards NOT fighting, even when your life is at stake. I feel sorry you never read them - you have no clue and talk about it like an idiot.
Tone deaf?? Just because someone believes in a myth with all their being doesn't mean the rest of us have to go along with the delusion. Zeus, Jupiter, Buddha, Aphrodite and the Baby Jesus don't deserve equal mindshare vs. rational thought and inquiry.
Who the religious extremists are, Tyson reveals his scientism.
Christians just need to laugh a little and wait until Earth Day to poke fun at Neal's religion.
Hypocrisy is the life-blood of the famous, ego the oxygen.
#AllReligionsAreStupidExceptMine
As the owner of a hamster I am offended at your post.
irrational fear is still irrational. and quite frankly in america, being scared of fundies or muslim terrorists is irrational fear
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
But at least he taught me something: That Sir Isaac Newton was a proto-Mormon.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowheel , thanks for reminding me that the word is gerbiling, not hamstering.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
September was in winter?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The difference is that everything in Tysons tweet was objective fact. People can disagree with your opinion about McRibb (I don't think vegans are surprised that people eat that crap). He was simply staying the truth. He shouldn't have to retract that. Your love of shoulder-based sandwiches isn't even a fact. I can argue with it.
Yes! We're all individuals!
Hmmm... I wanted to say let me be the first to say I told you so when he comes back and makes you his bitch... but he is nicer than that... I however will still tell you I told you so because I am still not perfect.
"Embiggen" is not a word I would use in formal communication. It was introduced as a joke on an episode of the television series "The Simpsons," and even in that fictional universe the authenticity of the word is questioned
In other words... dumbass!
No you believing that makes you an asshat.
If the tweet had referenced Karl Rove instead (another Dec 25 birthday), would they be as upset?
Or more generally - do the hard-core Christians seriously think that no-one else has ever been born on this day?
In fact ain't want considered a word until uneducated people whined and complained and used it as a word for over 30 years and everyone else got sick of putting up with your crap and telling you it wasn't a word and just said ffs I give up, you want to be stupid, have your stupid ain't because it makes you sound so smart.
From his small tower of power he makes another +5 insight into humanity. Interesting we are told.
At the time of sir Isaac Newton's birth, England used the same calendar as the Romans did when they decided December 25 should be Christmas Day, and on the day that Newton was born, the English did indeed celebrate Christmas Day. Please tell me, how exactly was Newton NOT born on Christmas Day?
A difference is that vegans don't eat McRibs and they generally don't give a fuck if somebody else does it. OK, they do care but they won't feel offended and certainly not in the way relinuts do. These do not only air their opinions but try to force-feed them down our throats and generally succeed, even in countries with an atheistic majority such as mine.
I don't think this was news outside of the Netherlands but while we live in a country with a 40% of atheists (many of them belonging to the 'liberal' right) and most of the religious people do keep their believes in private and support laicistic views (including abortion and euthanasia) we have got two proposals for law changes blocked in recent years:
One was the abolition of the Blasphemy Law, a law that makes it illegal to insult godly beings (from any religion, BTW), a law which is absolutely useless, has never been enforced and is in clear contradiction with the right of free speech which is as fundamental here as it is in the USA and is included in our Constitution (dating back to 1806). A few Catholic ministers from the CDA (a party that's now a minority) and a couple of members of the two Christian parties were enough to block it. So, we still have a stupid and useless law just for the sake of a few old farts (with the support of an also small bunch of Muslims, of course).
Another example was the ban on ritual slaughter without previous stunning of the animal. There was and is massive social support and there was a majority in both chambers supporting it. Yet Muslim and Jewish orthodox didn't want to hear about it and pulled a stunt sending in some high-ass imams and rabbis to lecture the Chamber of Deputies and with the help of (again the same) Christians the law was rejected and in a country were we have a Party for the Animals and even the far Right makes this an important point it is still allowed to any guy wearing some fancy robes to cut the throat of any animal he likes in the name of his religion. I actually wonder if they would also permit this in the name of the Cult of Cthulhu or as a sacrifice to Hekate, but I assume that it's only our dear right-to-left-writing friends who can do that.
Morale: Even in completely agnostic places we are still captives of these that are entitled for no good reason to impose their particular beliefs and fancies upon the rest of humanity. And this has to stop.
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Newton ruled. Also, 666 posts now!