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Foreign Students Have Begun To Shun the United States (axios.com)
In a potential threat to future U.S. innovation, new international enrollment at U.S. colleges is down for the first time in more than a decade, according to a new report. From the report: It is the first hard sign that the Trump administration's rhetoric may be frightening away some of the world's best and brightest who traditionally have been drawn to settle and work in the U.S. Why it matters: "The Chinese whiz kid, if he can find a way to America, he'll come here. If you're good, you can make a lot of money," Anthony Carnevale, director of Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce, tells Axios. "That whole set of incentives has always been tied to the immigrant stream, and we're severing that connection." By the numbers: The findings are from the Institute of International Education's annual Open Doors report and its smaller joint "snapshot" report on international enrollment. It found that new international student enrollment dropped by 3.3% for the 2016-2017 academic year, and by a far higher 6.9% in the Fall 2017 semester.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the exploding cost of education, it must be all Trump's fault.
Good now maybe the American students can actually start learning as there are fewer bad accent Teaching Assistants...
To us over here, going to the US now is like going to Germany in 1937 or something.
- I don't want to end up in a concentration camp ("black site") when flying over.
- Nor do I want to be anally fisted at touchdown. (The 9/11 terrorists did not land, now did they?)
- Or live among hyperselfish pschopaths. (I am basing this statement on research.)
- Or risk dying because I do not have $500,000 for a pill or simple operation.
- Or pay $500,000 to get an education that is free in my country.
Yes those are hyperboles. ... Sometimes. :P
There are far too many.
this++
I don't think there is any political system in the world that allows the 'best and the brightest' to rise to the top and run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world. They are ultimately doomed to failure, too many corrupt toes to step on.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The one thing the US gains short term by foreign exchange students is money for tuition, reshall expenses, and so on. However, every foreign national educated here means one spot taken from a US citizen. To boot, when the foreign national graduates, they take their knowledge back to where they came from, and compete with Americans for jobs and business.
A drop of the amount of foreign students coming to learn on US soil may not be an overarching bad thing. Americans already have it tough paying for college, much less competing against those whose government covers that, so this may be a blessing in disguise.
"if these people are so smart why do they have to come to the U.S.? Why don't they have companies and universities that are just as good as the U.S.?"
Sure, but if they don't immigrate, you won't ever get a Nobel prize anymore in the future.
As a Canadian, go Trump. This will reverse decades of brain drain.
Straw man argument aside: getting rid of corruption and totalitarianism, which usually causes the other issues, requires a lot of things besides being a smart individual.
Attracting the best students is critical to fueling the research that allows for dominance in any field. The US is temporarily killing its future success for the sake of backward and troll-inspired idiocy.
You can say that about the US. You could take an American who is studying in Germany and blame them for the worst incarceration rate in the world or the atrocities done in Iraq. However, that is pointless. One needs to separate the person from their government. Someone may be of the Han race, but not a Chinese citizen.
And as we close the door ever tighter against the rest of the world, they'll discover that they don't really need us, anyhow. They'll walk right past us and wonder how it ever was that people used to risk their lives to come here.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
the Trump administration's rhetoric may be frightening away some of the world's best and brightest
Complete and absolute bullshit.
If all these people are so smart, the "best and brightest", then why are their home countries a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery?
if these people are so smart why do they have to come to the U.S.? Why don't they have companies and universities that are just as good as the U.S.?
This has nothing to do with "talent" or "best and brightest". It's a bunch of people who come from a background of poverty and are happy to work for low wages. And drag the rest of us down with them.
Riiight. Because the US is the way it is because Americans are just so smart. Yeah, I'm sure that explains it. I mean, just look at how intelligently the US is run!
We need the brightest people we can get from everywhere in the world. Making the path easy and affordable for the best foreign scholars makes good sense. Every week we see major breakthroughs in science and technology announced from American research universities. Usually we see teams of three or so scholars being credited with the work and almost always the foreign names dominate the announcements. We need these people. What we do not need is an idiotic congress and senate being paid to accomplish nothing who are simply paid off traitors by special interests.
god damn you are a fucking retard
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Good schools should be USA first and not foreigners on a full ride that pay way more then USC's and get first in line.
One needs to separate the person from their government.
And in the case of the student, they already physically have. Same with the international student coming to the US to study in many cases - it's partly about getting away at least for a while.
You are correct. The US was utterly insane, loong before Trump.
I mean that whole "Redirecting travelers to Guantanamo Bay because $prejudice" literally put you on the same level as North Korea, Stalin's Russia and that other country in Europe that used to put certain groups very tightly together in some kind of storing area ... I have it on ze tip of my tongue...
The alternative to globalism is protectionism. Protectionism has been tried many times, and it doesn't work. If anything, it's even less likely to work these days, now that we have the internet and global supply routes.
The way to deal with globalisation isn't to close our borders, it's to deal with the specific issues.
Education is too expensive, but would be even more expensive if it wasn't for foreign students. The fix is not to turn away that source of revenue that is subsidising local students, it's to deal with the high cost directly. In a lot of European countries university is free for citizens, and costs the government a fraction as much while still being world class institutions.
Jobs are going overseas. That's unfortunate, but if they didn't they would only be automated away anyhow. If not today, then tomorrow. We should help people adapt, to get new high end manufacturing jobs or move into services. Again, Germany has done that, Japan has done that.
The real solutions are hard, and blaming immigrants and globalisation is easy. That's the problem.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
We tried globalism. It meant that everyone else was more important than we were, and had a claim to raiding what we produced for themselves. It also made us the world bad guys as we tried to keep order.
Let us instead focus on fixing our own failing society, and let the rest of the world take care of itself.
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
But how will that make the already-wealthy even wealthier, and free them from the constraints of any given nation? It's not like globalism has anything to do with helping the common person improve their situation.
It's more likely the autistic screeching from the losers and the incredibly biased media coverage that is affecting the attractiveness of the USA. .
Yesterday the FBI released their hate crime figures. About 50% of the increase in hate crimes (which have fallen about 45% in 20 years) have been in anti-white crimes.
But you wont hear that from the media in the US or anywhere else.
As an outsider looking in, I can clearly see that while Trump is a boorish man and quite ridiculous, he looks reasonable compared to his critics.
Because their countries/societies are shit not the people.
America house a lot of the global economy plus taxes aren't the worst in the world and it's a pretty free market so it make sense there's opportunity there for those who got something to offer.
Even if a country housed people who by average only reached up to 80% of the skill level of the average American you'd still got the outsiders and the occasional very talented person.
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
Your education is shit anyway.
Signed
the rest of the world
Perhaps this will motivate our politicians to improve our education system so that it produces a better, smarter workforce.
Since Trump's election I intentionally avoid al business (or holiday) travel to the US. At least we Europeans got to vote with our wallet. No need to support corrupt politicians, and their hateful followers. Many other pretty places in the world to visit and make friends.
Lets see how the Republicans, who are in power now, are "fixing our own failing society"
1) take away health care for those 1%ers
3)??
4) Profit!
Let's see how great America becomes, without those pesky immigrants who want to study hard and work hard.
Beyond Trump, maybe it's the general mood of Trump-haters and angry activists of all kinds versus Trump supporters and angry defenders of all kinds.
Why come to a country where everyone is angry all the time?
Why come to a country where no one can ever be happy?
Why come to a country where all the stories are about catastrophic environmental destruction?
Who wants to come here to be told they're a victim every day based on something that happened before they were born in their own country?
Why come to a country where succeeding financially is considered evil?
Why would a young person join a group that only talks about historic grievances and never about future opportunities?
Why come to a country where the leaders and entertainers and celebrities all seem to be among the worst examples of humanity?
Why not go to a country with good people and a good social atmosphere instead?
This view is deeply flawed.
Take Google as an example. You take it for granted that the Google HQ is in the USA, and hires Americans, but what if Sergey Brin was never welcome into the US or Standford, and instead he ended up going to a university in Russia or China or the UK or whatever, and creating his company there? What if Larry Page came to that same university in Russia (or whatever) because it was known as one of the best and most foreigner-friendly university in the world? Had that happened, the Google HQ would have now been in Russia, not California.
This may look absurd to you, but it can easily happen in a generation or two: the best students in the world are not welcome in Stanford, so they start choosing an almost-as good university in some other country, which gets better as more of the world's best students choose it. These students start to create companies in that country (if it welcomes them as immigrants), and suddenly it's no longer a "default" that every successful company needs to be in America. The American employees, which until now had an easy life when the world's best companies all flocked to America to employ them, will now need to start looking for jobs in other countries where these new companies are located.
Much of America's success in the last 100 years is due to its lax immigration policies, which meant that the best scientists in the world came to work in it and create new companies in it. I live in Israel and remember this happening in the 1980s: All the best scientists I knew were studying in the US, working in the US, or just visiting there. All their knowledge funneled into American universities and companies, and created jobs in America, not in Israel. I don't see how in any sense of the word, America suffered from this situation.
One needs to separate the person from their government.
So, no more voting? Bring back the monarchy? Well, after this last election, it might be worth considering. Sorry, but the people asked for this. Nobody can say they didn't know what's coming. And nobody can say the government isn't a reflection of the voters. We are responsible for who we elect, and the message we send. Intent is irrelevant, it's what we do that counts.
I agree! This was the whole point of many universities that were created in various states - to educate the people of the said state. Each foreigner they enroll takes a seat away from a student from that state. But a university gets more money from a foreigner than a domestic student. So, of course, they are more interested in foreign students - more money to get into the pockets of the university administration and professors, etc. It is all about the money - they do not care about the people of the state these days that pay for the university with their taxes.
Can anyone say "false dichotomy"? I knew you could.
Put up walls, block out the rest of the world. It means you're limiting your society's access to knowledge and resources to those that are available inside those walls. This means you tend to develop socially and technologically at a slower pace than larger populations, and you tend to grow xenophobic which makes future interactions with the rest of the world more likely to be unfavorable.
Obviously the US isn't disconnected from the world entirely, but you guys certainly seem determined to blow up as many bridges as you can.
No, you don't elect Trump, you elect electoral college votes.
You fail at conducting and responding to the census, which reduces your electoral college representative power.
You tried putting anyone else before you Americans ...
YEAH FUCKING RIIGHT.
Look around you. Every bombed oil place and every country where you meddled in to a level that countless died (which is *every* country) is laughing at you for saying that.
The problem has alway been what was shown on stidiea comparing US studenta to humans throughout the world: You are *insanely* selfish psychopaths!
So have fun doubling down on what now brought you to fall.
I'm sure it will make things not even worse!
We'll be over here, as social beings, sharing our popcorn. ^^
Universities and the like have to shoulder some of this burden as well. Anyone looking at the news lately likely sees most universities here as war zones dominated by violent protesters and fragile snowflakes who cry about everything. Combine with that the ever rising tuition rates, and universities have made themselves increasingly unattractive to everyone, let alone foreign students.
You're the dumbest person on the planet.
The alternative to globalism is protectionism
Yes, it's binary. You're either for globalism or protectionism. There is no middle. Only the two extremes.
Is it no wonder things are going to hell in a hand bag? People can't seem to understand that a middle exists. The world isn't binary. You've figured it out on gender, why can't you figure it out on political ideologies?
"I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot someone, and people would still vote for me."
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of man the people of the United States freely, willingly and knowingly chose as their President. That actually says a lot more about the people of the United States than about Trump himself.
Can you blame anyone in the rest of the civilized world for being freaked out by the fact that half the people of the country he's supposed to go live in for a few years clearly show signs of serious mental health issues ?
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
I suspect that any celebration of the departure of your education system will ultimately turn out to be a very short-lived one once the consequences of not having one start to hit home.
Try putting whites pace in what you write. Nobody will read the mile long novel.
If all these people are so smart, the "best and brightest", then why are their home countries a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery
More importantly, why is the US a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery?
We tried globalism. It meant that everyone else was more important than we were
This is the most delusional description of US foreign policy that I've ever read in my life.
Ditto.
High five, Canada! :D
You do not even understand how distributions work. Guess your name will not be found among the "best and brightest".
The fact of the matter is that the best and brightest of a country (which is a small number of all people) will search opportunities abroad of a) things at home are not good and b) there are attractive opportunities abroad. Traditionally, the US got most of their best scientists and engineers that way, because US education sucks and US society seems to do its very best to discourage the smartest kids from developing their skills. Guess that parasitic arrangement will stop now.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
>them
HIM.
MAGA, baby, MAGA!
President Trump wins again!
Indeed. And most are too smart to go into politics in the first place. But the best and brightest can make a lot of money nonetheless, if conditions are right.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
One needs to separate the person from their government.
And in the case of the student, they already physically have. Same with the international student coming to the US to study in many cases - it's partly about getting away at least for a while.
You have two kinds of foreign students, those who use it as an opportunity to escape their home country and those who study abroad with the intention of going back home. Most that I've known were of the first variety whether it be Chinese, Indian, or African.
And Trump was elected by a majority? Then there is the entire DNC scandal of Hillary being selected, not elected. The US people didn't ask for these people in office, but gerrymandering and other election tactics keeps them in power. You can ask almost any US Slashdotter if they voted or supported Trump... and you almost always will get a negative response.
People did show their voice. Too bad the system ignored it. Again, a person != their government.
After all, this is US. The rest is just THEM.
Because their countries/societies are shit not the people.
How does that work exactly? I mean, what constitutes a country/society, if not people? What can you say about a person that plays *follow the leader* and picks up a gun? Is he a good person? Is he a kind person? Sure, there are good people in bad societies, but they are a tiny minority. Otherwise they wouldn't live in a bad society, amirite?
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
Baltimore City isn't self-sustaining. It has to bring in food from outside farms, since it doesn't have the climate to farm everything. It has to bring in material from outside quarry, as it doesn't have rich mines for every type of mineral. It has to bring in product from outside manufacturing, as it doesn't have every type of skill and factory. Even if we tried, we'd end up expending far more labor and producing far less per person than the folks all over the country and the world, meaning we'd work long hours for little wealth.
It also has to bring in outside money to not be poor, as what we buy into the city goes out of the city and up the supply chain.
When the major industry and commerce left, Baltimore collapsed. If Amazon put a secondary HQ here, we'd have $2.5Bn-$5Bn more of yearly wage income flowing to the city, being spent, and producing more jobs and more tax revenue. We'd be running off foreign money--non-Baltimore money coming in from all over the US east coast.
That's called trade.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Well, you could always fund education from taxes, but that would be socialism (ducks)
i think Trump's agenda has had little impact on how/what is taught at elite liberal campus' the world over, but now that they've shown their true colours ... students are reconsidering the liberal endoctrination
I still read the alumni magazine my alma mater sends me. I read about amazing students and professors doing great things in their chosen fields and even starting businesses. Usually those businesses are in the US employing Americans.
And quite often these people come from other continents..
The school I went to is looking for the best students they can get and if they come from a foreign land that's okay. In fact, I'd be upset if they told some prospective student who was intelligent and had a good work ethic that they couldn't be admitted because they already had too many foreigners.
We should want smart immigrants who are willing to work for an education to come here. My ancestors just a few generations back were immigrants and yours probably were too.
Of course we could turn these students away along with all their potential. Maybe they'll go to Canada or Europe or maybe they'll start their own universities in Asia or South America or Africa which in a few decades will make our schools look merely average or worse because we told the best students to stay out of our country.
Americans need to wake up to the fact that they've squandered their dominance of innovation and the rest of the world is now moving on with out them.
Blame it on Trump if it makes you feel better, but this comes as no surprise to the rest of us.
of Americans, don't those numbers mean that hate crimes rose more for non-whites?
I mean even if just 50% of people are white, and hate-crimes rose, and 50% of the additional crimes were against whites, that would mean an exact proportional balance.
Lol, congratulations on the dumbest misuse of statistics I've seen in a long time. ^^
I don't think there is any political system in the world that allows the 'best and the brightest' to rise to the top and run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world.
There are far more important reasons for that than corruption. We don't all agree on who the "best and brightest" are and we certainly do not all agree that their views are superior. Then there is the fact that the even those whom you think are the best and brightest may not want to go into politics because they usually have a good job that they enjoy and are unwilling to give it up for the uncertainty of elections and the type of job they will have if they do win.
Jobs gong oversees which "would be automated anyhow", would be automated in our home country, where some employees woudl work. Services would be rendered. Taxes woudl be paid. Your argument is very thin and incomplete.
Sounds like you are jealous of those who are smarter and better prepared than you.
Was going to say this - the best and brightest are too good and too smart to go into politics - they would rather do something that involves far less bullshit.
I find it sad that, after half an hour, no one has challenged this:
If all these people are so smart, the "best and brightest", then why are their home countries a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery?
Neither the article nor the intro says anything about which countries are not sending so many students to the USA. Which forces me to conclude that the AC believes that the entire world beyond the USA is "a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery".
Unfortunately, all too many US citizens seem to agree. But it really isn't true. I live in England, which - while of course far inferior to Scotland - is a pretty decent country apart from its politicians. (And even they aren't nearly as bad as their American equivalents). Most of Europe is quite pleasant to live in (again, of course, were it not for the politicians and the ever-spreading blight of US corporations).
If you would take the trouble to read up on modern China, or Japan, or Singapore, or Russia, or Iran, or Brazil, or Mexico, or many other places, you would find that standards of living are soaring and people have a far more optimistic view of life than most in the USA.
By and large, the only countries that could accurately be described as "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery" are those that the USA has attacked and completely, or partially, destroyed.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
When the major industry and commerce left, Baltimore collapsed. If Amazon put a secondary HQ here, we'd have $2.5Bn-$5Bn more of yearly wage income flowing to the city, being spent, and producing more jobs and more tax revenue. We'd be running off foreign money--non-Baltimore money coming in from all over the US east coast.
Yeah, but why would Amazon want to deal with Baltimore's politicians or it's people?
That's a microcosm of this topic, actually. Why would productive and prosperous individuals want to come to a place where the people feel entitled and spend their days nursing historic grievances?
Most of the time when someone "run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world" they end up in conflict with the Constitution.
The Best way isn't always the Right way.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Except that if you look at a cross section of foreign students, they aren't always the 'best and the brightest' and come here for any number of reasons. Some believe they will be getting the best education at a certain institution and others may do it for prestige or perhaps as a path to citizenship. There are probably numerous reasons that I haven't mentioned but without looking at who is coming here and why the gross statistic doesns't tell us very much.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I'd say it's probably the latter. See, whiz kids get scholarships. Even the international ones can get scholarships and stipends.
Fu Er Dai (kids of nouveau riche) however, need to pay full price, and often do it with a newly bought American house paid in full with cash by their parents. Now, with US housing prices at historical highs, coupled with the Chinese economy cooling off, not as many families find it a good investment.
Add to this the growing perception that overseas degrees aren't worth all that much (mainly due to the fact that every dumber-than-a-brick Fu Er Dai has gotten one), and you can easily find explanations to the dip in numbers without alluding to Trump's rhetoric. And that's even without pointing out the fact that the trend started before last year's election.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Again, a person != their government.
Bullshit! Where is the resistance to put out the corruption? It doesn't matter that Trump didn't get a majority. We knew and accepted the rules going in and didn't change them. Whose fault is that?! In the US the government is most definitely of the people and by the people. A classic case of making the bed they sleep in.
As someone who works at a university, I assure you, US students already are preferred - that's the law and it's just cheaper [no visa hassles] to deal with US students. International student's don't qualify for Federal financial aid either. The only undergraduate internationals we want are the full-pay students.
The problem, and this is especially acute at the graduate level, is that U.S. student's don't want to work too hard. Given the choice between STEM graduate degrees and MBA's, the U.S. students are opting for the MBA's. You got a Chinese TA in class because no one in the U.S. wanted the job.
We just did a faculty hire in physics. Based on surnames and whatever information was in the resume, we estimated that only a third of our applicants were from the U.S. The rest were born outside this country and came here for school. That's the current reality of higher ed.
People like you never seem to understand that a lot of voters chose Trump by default. They felt that, awful as he is in many ways, he was vastly better than Hillary Clinton - who seemed very likely to get us all killed (and indeed sometimes sounded as if that was her only aim in life).
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/...
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
We don't need no smart foreigners, we got Trump - he's the smartest guy in the room - just ask him, he'll tell you! He's so smart he can do the thinking' for all of us and have brain cells to spare!
Americans hate social studies. And I found out how that started:
It started, when the consensus among studies in the field became, that when comparing Americans to the rest of the world, they are insane hyper-selfish psychopaths.
And that does not even include the schizophrenia epidemic. (Religiousness is another word for schizophrenia.)
Nor that half the students in the US officially pop hard prescription drugs like candy, and the other half does it with the illegal equivalent.
The already-wealthy are already free from the constraints of any given nation. It's the poor and middle class who want (and need) to take the best opportunities the world provides to them.
Patriotism is over-rated: go where the best opportunities present and where you're most comfortable. I for one will be glad that my kids will entitled to three citizenships (US, an EU country, a CARICOM country). More choice for them is a good thing.
That's the best outcome. Who can say America deserves to be world leader anymore? It's a cruel arrogant country that heartily enjoys bullying the world. The best revenge would be the world passing up the hated oppressors and rendering them impotent, left to stew on their own continent. No more bombing, no more ridiculous IP patent system to lock up ideas, no more police brutality and racism. It's for the best.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
... or they end up doing brilliant research in the US, that American finance, law, and public relations majors are unwilling to do, furthering the cause of science, making money for US companies, helping humanity, and maybe teaching the next generation of US students. Like it or not, a lot of our innovators were immigrants.
First of all, this article has a very biased viewpoint.
Foreign students have begun to shun the United States
That is stating that foreign students are making the choice to not attend schools in the United States. The data says no such thing. It is likely the same number of students desire to be educated in the United States as before, but there there are other factors that stand in their way (like having to enter the country through the legal processes).
Further, the article states "worth noting" (IE if they didn't state it they would be too blatantly guilty of expressing their bias without proper facts) that the big schools are affected "much less" than smaller schools that do not have Ph.D. programs. So considering the "best and brightest" are usually those seeking Ph. D. programs at the bigger schools, well, this isn't affecting the "best and brightest" at all.
The effect was much more pronounced in the Midwest and Texas, she said, especially at schools without Ph.D. programs, and at community colleges.
Ahh, now we get to the truth of it. This is about illegal immigrants from Mexico, which were attending smaller schools like community colleges. Isn't this to be expected? If it is harder to illegally enter the United States, and immigrants actually have to follow the policies that have been in place for decades, then less immigrants will be coming in, and thus we would see a drop in foreign enrollment at these kinds of smaller colleges in that specific region of the country.
Better known as 318230.
Kids are avoiding Mizzou and other activist infested hot spots because of tightened screening for a handful of Middle Eastern countries, raised H1B restrictions, and illegal immigration policies which don't affect them.
Suuuuuuure.
As a science student in a large, public, US university, I see very little "SJW stupidity" as you put it. Most of the students and profs are pretty apolitical on a day-to-day basis.
Apparently there's protectionism, free trade, and fair trade. I've been talking to the unions, so I've had to learn about fair trade.
Jobs are going overseas. That's unfortunate, but if they didn't they would only be automated away anyhow.
Actually, in many cases, "bringing jobs back" doesn't work. For example: if you brought manufacture of Chinese pants (at $3.20/hr labor) back from China (import cost: 6.5 cents per pair, $6.12 total cost at the receiving port), at American minimum wage of $8.25/hr plus 18% overhead (payroll overhead is 40%), you might create about 5,000 jobs net. When you bump up the wage, you start losing jobs.
Why?
A minimum-wage worker works 1.8 hours to buy a pair of pants at the average price (which was $14.97 at the time I did the math, by quick Google--this includes children's pants). To buy pants with the same labor hours in American total payroll costs, it's 3.0 hours. That also assumes Americans are skilled enough to make the pants at the same quality with the same labor and materials--we're not; most folks approach this argument by assuming Americans will overbuild (more material cost) and that the overbuilt thing will last longer, thus "it will be higher price because it's better quality". Basically, we can't do it to such precision, so we ham-fist it and claim it's magically better.
The middle-class will work fewer hours in either case to afford pants, and the ratio (3:1.8) will stay the same. Thus there's a decrease in affordability of goods: fewer pants or fewer other things. Folks like to argue here that "the money stays in the hands of Americans, so we're richer", but that doesn't hold true in any case, both for the reason stated here and because we'd need at peak 0.11% of our workforce making pants (insubstantial while everyone's getting slightly-poorer). We're also paying them out of the same income that everybody else already has--just redistributing the income from Chinese to American factory workers.
Retail cashiers can run about 980 scans per hour. Trucks ship a fixed number of a given set of goods. Shelf stocking, loss prevention, etc. Cut back the number of goods and you cut back the jobs. The short math for this is to divide the total dollar increase in cost of pants by the yearly minimum wage and call that the "maximum" number of jobs lost--which is a flat lie: many retail workers are part-time (so the number of "jobs" lost is higher, although the number of theoretical whole full-time jobs lost is not affected by this), while truckers make $40k/year or $140k/year for owner-operators ($100k/year to maintain the truck!). You'd have to project the number of mechanic and factory worker jobs invested in that truck to get an accurate number.
By the time you hit $20/hr+40% payroll cost at the factory floor, you're definitely losing more American jobs than you're gaining. Up to then, it's questionable. That's at $3.20/hr average Chinese total payroll cost.
If the Chinese labor cost is higher, then the break-even point for American wage and job loss is also higher. Likewise, if the jobs related to infrastructure, retail, and truck maintenance are higher-paying, then your lost job count is lower.
None of that actually matters because Americans are still working longer hours to afford the same goods anyway, so you've brought poverty back to America. As well, the labor force responds to job availability: if you make jobs more-available, your labor force expands to fill; less-available and it contracts. There are limits on this--especially on contraction--hence high unemployment in recessions. Population booms are the other side.
So, long-term, a slow transition of jobs to outsource just means we change what jobs and industries in which our workforce specializes. Short-term, you can really damage the economy with mass job exodus. You want controls to slow that (for the economy) and social safety nets to support the displaced worker (for t
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It is simple... in the past, the US sowed seeds, with a solid education system and a social safety net. This way, people focused on other than survival, and actually building something.
The current people we have don't understand that if you want a harvest (i.e. good, skilled workers), it takes some planting to get that. This shows that the philosophy behind libertarianism is dumber than even the most brain-dead farmer, as even Inbred Jed knows he won't see corn in his field unless he plants it. There is a reason why there are no Libertarian countries... the philosophy is not a viable one.
Being an immigrant is not a great way of life: even if you are willing to integrate like chinese are, even though the society is welcoming for you as the USA are, you will never master the language, master the rules, master the mindset,
Here in France there has been a deep modification of the society to be more welcoming to the immigrants; this went as far as lowering the level of French needed to pass exam; giving universal healthcare even to illegals; or that the illegals are never sent back. And I noticed this trend in the USA also: when I was there in 2000 being illegals would have made you blacklisted for 10 years, but no more under Obama rule.
Trying to be a migrant society is making citizens as strangers in their own country while failing to address completly the issue for migrants. It is basically a race to the bottom.
So I welcome a World with chinese living well in China, or Indians in India.
Let the USA be an example for the whole World; and for that you don't need to force people immigrating there.
I don't think there is any political system in the world that allows the 'best and the brightest' to rise to the top and run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world. They are ultimately doomed to failure, too many corrupt toes to step on.
In America, many immigrants become rich. Many children of immigrants become rich. A young legal immigrant is more than twice as likely to become a millionaire than a native born citizen. (I will look for a citation.) I immigrated to the USA when I was young. I almost became a millionaire, and maybe I will get there in the next few years. I have known five others that have come to America with nothing (except one of them had a BS from China) and became millionaires. Most of them worked very hard (60 hours plus per week) and spent much less than the average American. My ex-girlfriend came to the USA 9 years ago. She became a millionaire 4 years ago. She worked an average of 12 hours per day except on Sundays when she would work only 8 hours. She lived with and 4 other Chinese women paying only 1/5 of the rent until she became a millionaire. She would go out to eat maybe once per year. She worked every day of the year except Thanksgiving and Christmas.
The point was an economic one: when you get out of hunter-gathering, you're sustained by outside money. When you're hunter-gathering, you frequently leave the land on which you hunt to find greener pastures.
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"As someone who works at a university, I assure you, US students already are preferred - that's the law and it's just cheaper [no visa hassles] to deal with US students. International student's"
By your apostrophe plural, I assume you're working as the janitor?
This is a great comment. Unfortunately, I posted about global warming once and never got any points back again, so I can't mod your post up myself.
Now I laugh. Because that irony is hilarious.
Yeah, knowledge barriers indeed!
You should go all the way, and start a religion!
No, protectionism is definitely evil. Borders are prison walls that need to be torn down so that everybody can enjoy their rightful freedom of movement. We all have the right to live where we want. People who interfere with that right should be shot on sight.
You're researching schools because you want to study well and succeed.
Are you put off by:
A). What Trump said about illegal immigrants from Mexico and about Muslims?
or
B). Viral, million view videos of activists storming libraries, disrupting campus, screaming at professors, screaming at fellow students?
Now imagine yourself as a parent who will be footing the bill. Are you put off by the former or the latter?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Reading the posts here just seems like a perfect picture of today's divided USA. Like all the Trump followers, I sense the descent of the US empire, just that they blame it on foreigners and I see it in the inability of Trump followers to grasp the reason of the power the US had for about a century. It was the center of the world in terms of science and talent. And in fact they did not get Nobels because they ended up in US, that is a pretty stupid point of view. Just check the roster of most top Universities.
What US controls is ::::). It really doesnt make sense though, spend more than you earn, and just print the rest.
1. Massive military leadership (which probably China will challenge soon, and lends a lot to science leadership)
2. Ability to keep dollar as the international trade currency (it does it through military means if needed. What is that great friendship to saudi royal family anyways
3. Science leadership which the protectionists try to demolish.
No leading nation kept it forever throughout history. It seems US has its turn about to be over. I actually hope it doesnt happen soon. There are more evil nations out there waiting to get the lead. Lets wait for the next election and see what happens.
I don't like Trump at all but I think American Colleges and Universities need to be for Americans first and foremost. I am not xenophobic but I am definitely not in favor of throwing the doors wide open to foreigners at the expense of citizens wanting a college education. I feel the same way about the importation of labor when we have the labor domestically to address industry needs. And, in the few cases where we do not, there should be programs to invest in the domestic labor force. The importation of labor is not about a lack of skills in the domestic labor pool, it's about foreigners accepting substantially less money to perform a task. Often they will accept offerings that are substantially below market value.
Or someone at the Kremlin would take a dim view to allowing peasants access to free information and they got Clintoned.
This site is a joke, and people like you are the reason for it.
"every foreign national educated here means one spot taken from a US citizen" - you really have a fixed number of students per year that fills up? Sounds like a case for opening another university
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Your argument would work if the pants price changed being produced locally or in China. What truly happens is production is transferred to China, and the price doesn't get any lower.
The political left taught me that hunger-gatherers are the only people who have absolute property rights. Everyone else in the world must pay their fair share, but indigenous hunter-gatherers apparently have a perpetual, inviolate right to exclusive use of enormous tracts of land and all that land's resources, with zero responsibilities toward the rest of us. It was even the theme of the movie Avatar.
Globalism has been tried too. Countries like the UAE, are great examples of this, where the locals are treated like absolute dogshit, while anyone wealthy owns the country. Do we need the US to further split into two groups? Don't forget, once people lose hope, groups like Daesh, Nazis, and others will move in with their toxic ideology.
Much of America's success in the last 100 years is due to its lax immigration policies, which meant that the best scientists in the world came to work in it and create new companies in it.
Just to name a few companies founded by Immigrants:
Google, AT&T, Goldman Sachs, eBay, RadioShack, Comcast, Yahoo!, Colgate, DuPont, Pfizer, Procter & Gamble...
These founders might not all have been university students, but obviously same reasons will affect other immigrant's willingness to move over, as well.
"Education is too expensive, but would be even more expensive if it wasn't for foreign students"
Since when does high demand for anything result in lower prices? I guess you could argue that high demand causes more efficient competitors to enter the field and thereby reducing costs - that happens pretty much everywhere except education.
Education is a labor-intensive thing - largely immune to automation and other cost-cutting techniques used in other industries. More demand for education will raise the price - Econ 101.
Reduced demand for college/university education might actually help make the cost of these programs more affordable for the middle-class.
As you noted, not all countries are capable of furnishing high-quality education. So what is a bright student from such a country to do?
I think if you start thinking of education as something we trade with other countries, you might look at this differently. Student A comes in, pays a bunch of money to our universities (and in exchange gets an education). Locally, we hire all the staff necessary to support that (professors, administrators, janitors, etc.) and we gain a lot of money. What's not to like? Ultimately, if there aren't enough places for all students who want, more get created (or the price goes up). But the price going up usually eventually causes more supply.
Ok, I know. You don't like that they might choose to stay after they've finished. That is a separate issue than providing them with an education. Many don't stay, and it is quite obviously a net gain for us (and hopefully the student as well) as the money they spent was in the US.
Those that do stay, well at least they are well-educated, probably speak English reasonably well (after 4 years of college, one tends to learn a bit). I believe that most studies have shown that it is quite a good benefit to our economy to have those students stay,
you are a god damn idiot
It's the fact that as a nation, we as a people would ELECT Trump, knowing what a mockery of a human being he was, and continues to be.
I mean, there's lessons to be learned - but hardly a motivation to go INTO this insane land to learn them.
It's sad that the professional class of politician is so bad that someone who never held office, but promises to finally do what the people have been asking would be chosen over someone with experience. There's your reason. The prior president who was closely associated with Trump's competitor promised to stop illegal spying and immediately endorsed it upon taking office. He ordered the extra-judicial murders of American citizens. He spent his last few years in office pandering to niche constituencies like BLM and Transexuals. Yet the left was shocked, shocked I tell you, that the middle of the country rejected more of the same.
Apparently there's protectionism, free trade, and fair trade. I've been talking to the unions, so I've had to learn about fair trade.
True, but let's look at those options.
Free trade. This can mean one of two things. You can have a situation like the EU, where the member states agree to have equivalent rules and regulations so that one doesn't have a big advantage over the others. The US kinda has it but states have more freedom to set taxes to any level they want, which results in citizens getting screwed as they compete for business with subsidies and tax holidays.
Fair trade is just globalisation or protectionism again, depending on what you deem fair. Either you have barriers because people in China work for a fraction of what Americans so (protectionism), or you accept that there is an imbalance and work with it like Japan and most of Europe do (globalisation).
Of course there are degrees, for example Europe does have some tariffs and barriers in place but generally the policy is to have developing countries either join the EU or have a relatively liberal trade agreement in the expectation that as they develop they will want to buy high quality European goods.
Either way your 1950s style manufacturing jobs are not coming back, evolution is the only option.
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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It seemed so pathetic that it wasn't worth confronting. Still - well said. Couldn't agree more about the Scotland bit ;)
Education is too expensive, but would be even more expensive if it wasn't for foreign students.
And here's where I will disagree. Education, currently far too expensive, regardless of foreign students' participation, will be set to AS EXPENSIVE AS THEY CAN POSSIBLY MAKE IT, PERIOD.
We see this clearly with the exponentially increasing educational cost trends with the increase in availability of student loans. Nice, no, that so many more can go into debt for getting their economically-mandatory advanced education? Surely the society-serving, altruistic universities would take this increase in attendance dollars to hold down costs and be of greater benefit to the students and society in general? No, absolutely not. More people able to pay now, return to core objective, MAKE IT AS EXPENSIVE AS WE CAN POSSIBLY MAKE IT.
Simple, vast greed backed by unchecked opportunity to enhance it endlessly, unhinged in reality from either market constraints or the type of government management (or at least oversight) you are discussing.
So... well, my rant ends now with full agreement. Distressing that so many will formulate this is a "blame Trump" issue and imagine that the universities will do anything other than grab as much money as possible, under all circumstances, at every opportunity, and would even consider taking the "bad news" about foreign attendance as other then an opportunity to appeal to suck more money out of taxpayers due to their "increased need".
They won't. Gullibility on this issue won't help anything. If the pointless (other than for money) primacy of college sports in a supposed learning institution, and the monetizing of graduate students work (students paying for the privilege of making the university rich) doesn't illustrate the nature of modern universities, I suppose nothing will.
US Students should get first priority to attend US Colleges and Universities. It's appalling to qualified see US citizens denied access to higher education when the classrooms and dorms are filled with foreigners.
I get it... I guess I'm bigoted because foreigners want to exploit what we have built.
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Protectionism has been tried many times, and it doesn't work
Lack of protectionism has been tried before... and the result was the loss of our manufacturing base (particularly our steel industry). Now kindly fuck off with your shilling/stupidity/whatever the fuck you want to call it.
...U.S. student's don't want to work too hard. Given the choice between STEM graduate degrees and MBA's, the U.S. students are opting for the MBA's.
US students who went to government schools probably got a mediocre education from mediocre people who spend their days going through the motions waiting for summer and retirement. When did US students ever see educated people as role models?
That's the current reality of higher ed.
Higher ed is a hostile environment. It's easier for foreign students to deal with it because they're protected by their subculture and relative isolation from the hostility.
Someone who doesn't need a student visa to avoid some relative misfortune will eventually decide to leave and go get a job. Working at a job isn't a paradise, but at least they want you there. It's about work and accomplishment rather than hate and politics.
I've seen a lot of bad research, and bad job skills, coming out of certain Asian countries. If anything I see them as a drag on research. Not all of them mind you, but a fair number of them.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
unlimited student loans backed schools make trade schools look bad and force others to part of the collage system with skills push out to 2-4 years just to get that piece or paper.
Why can’t Arizona feed itself without importing food from other states.
The US is the 3rd / 4th largest country having a wide range of resources, so we are not fighting over access to clean water, and food because we have the space to do such.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Well . . . bye.
Yes, their societies are shit. But their societies are shit [i]because of the people[/i]. Society doesn't spring forth from the ground, people make it; a society is a reflection of the people who created and run it.
That's one reason why the U.S. society is failing -- vast numbers of people from very different cultures have been let in, and they're busy recreating in the U.S. the very cultures they fled from in the first damn place.
From where I'm sitting in the engineering department at USF, there are no shortages of foreign students. Of course the USF engineering department has not been infected with SJW/PC culture. They try, but the usual response by staff is "go away".
Very specifically in the syllabus of every class I've taken since the Mizzo nonsense there is a section on bringing that kind of disruption to class and how it will result in your immediate expulsion from said class.
Interesting how the post links "U.S. innovation" to "foreign students". Maybe they, too, are "exceptional" after all?
People have been repeating that tired old canard about a failing society ever since the Irish started coming over in the 1840s. So far, it's survived.
Foreign students should do the extra effort of studying and working on their countries. The US just steals the best minds from other countries.
standards of living are soaring and people have a far more optimistic view of life than most in the USA.
Don't believe anything you hear or read about Americans from the media. Or the internet. Especially Slashdot.
"THE" alternative? False dichotomy is false. Protectionism is the polar opposite, but far from the "only" alternative.
It's also a false presumption that all foreign students are the best and brightest and will only improve the US by their presence, which is what this article subtly suggests. Sound more to me like the less than the best and brightest will now realize they haven't got a sure thing and will be discouraged, but the true cream of the crop should still have good motivation for coming over.
How would education be more expensive if not for foreign students?
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Funnily enough all the comments about SJW stupidity are posted by ACs. You might get the impression some group was trying to keep a meme going.
It seems to me that this will mean more slots for American students who otherwise wouldn't get in to university.
Germany has a good trades track as well with unions!
Even with out the unions we need a good tech / trades track also D1 football & basketball needs to have minor leagues. (they don't have time for class).
There's a world of difference between Einstein / Fermi / Oppenheimer and a random Joe from China who happens to be good at math. We can still let the top guys in and indeed we're doing that. What the anti-immigration folks are looking to do is stop the flow of rank and file when there's plenty of Americans who can and would take that training.
Also, it's not just about Americans taking that training. As we bring these folks in from overseas it reduces the need to have good schools to train up Americans. It's about shifting the cost of the initial 18 years of child rearing overseas. It lets wealthy elites cut funding to our schools and pocket that money in the form or tax cuts while still having a viable work force.
The elites didn't fund schools for the poor and working class out of charity. They did it because they needed a 21st century workforce. Parents work _hard_ to raise their kids. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to expect good schools. But cheap 'imports' like these eliminate the need for those schools. This isn't about competing. This is about the ruling class not meeting their end of the bargain.
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people that dont have enough low-level education is who.
pest control jobs need created in Obama's country Kenya. See Obamacare origins https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2QFZiEm2Fc
Well, just shows that being from a 2nd world country doesn't guarantee any kind of insight.
It used to be that industry was driven by their ability to access natural resources such as steel and coal. Today the resources in the information economy is knowledge and brains.
If you cut off the supply of either, your industrial advantages will die and other countries will outstrip you. The difference is the best people are mobile, sought after and a limited resource. If you don't attract them, other countries will and use their talents to build their universities and industries
America was built on attracting the brightest and best. It is the reason its industries are envied and copied, but they were built by offering opportunities to any who were willing to work hard whatever their nationality. The revisionist history is that America was built by Americans, but they forget that most of those were originally from other countries looking for a better life.
Choose your allies carefully, it is highly unlikely you will be held accountable for the actions of your enemies
The China argument is really strange. People talk about slave labor or something, and ignore that China's exports have allowed it to generate revenue to purchase new technology. That technology is expensive, and they wouldn't have been able to pay their workers well or buy it without exports to other countries: Europe and the United States have been funding China's rapid development, which has resulted in over a decade of growing wages and social insurances, while economic efficiency increases at a pace such that the fractional cost of wage per product manufactured has come down (e.g. with these new tools, the product costs the same if you pay the Chinaman $3.50 instead of $1.20, but they pay the Chinaman $3.20 and now it's cheaper!).
We got wealthier taking advantage of a wage gap; China got wealthier taking advantage of that wage gap, too. The wage gap is getting narrower as a result.
Fair trade tries to accelerate the growth of wages so as to raise standards-of-living in the developing country while slowing the loss of jobs in the importing nation, near as I can tell. It has its own disadvantages, for example by encouraging the mixing of low-quality product (which sells below fair-trade prices) into fair trade product. It also only slows the outflow of jobs; we need social insurances to carry those workers who lose their jobs until they can find a new opportunity--slowing it only means we don't have to care about those workers for our own comfort, since we don't collapse the economy at large.
Hard problems.
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It seemed so pathetic that it wasn't worth confronting.
I quite agree. But I have come to feel that, time permitting, one should always crunch such statements into the floor and grind down hard.
For the record.
As too many people believe that "silence implies consent".
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Garmin engineer shot and killed in Kansas by man who allegedly yelled 'GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY'
Someone thinks it's trolling to challenge the view that the entire world beyond the USA is "a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery".
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Anyone who went to those universities would do those great things. Why do you need "adjusted" SAT scores for different ethnic groups?
I find it sad that, after half an hour, no one has challenged this:
If all these people are so smart, the "best and brightest", then why are their home countries a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery?
Which is ironic, since 'a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery' is a pretty accurate description of the US as seen from most other Western nations.
Russians are supposed to be PRO Trump.
No, actually, Russians are supposed to be disrupting the US any way they can, by fomenting unrest and discontent by fanning flames on both sides of controversial issues.
The problem is whomever makes the nicest place cant enjoy it without people who destroy places moving in and wrecking it.
If I make my house nice with heated floors I lock my door to keep my neighbor without heated floors from barging in during winter.
Same with borders. I have *seen* how your people live in their own country (with far greater natural resources than mine mind you) and yet you need to come live *here* without any explanation other than some right to enjoy the things my people built with *less*.
Next thing we know its not so nice anymore(Detroit), we move and build fresh somewhere else(Pontiac) and it too is wrecked once everyone flocks in after we made it nice.
When can we just enjoy what we built? When can we keep the nice things we invest in. Can we start sharing some of the pain we go through to make things so nice? Just asking because your kind isnt here when we are starting from scratch in an undesirable place.....
This article really only gives percentages without any perspective. Here's what I see happening among the international students I'm friends with: Most of the students I know are paying full price for the degree, and consequently tend to take their education and degree very seriously(for some of them the cultural aspect of how education is viewed in their communities is a big part too). The STEM course that I'm part of and most of the other on campus has a significant international student cohort, and for most of them, OPT is the easiest way to earn the money they put into their degrees back. There's also been some talk of how H1Bs are hard to come by and some people are actively planning on moving to Canada through their merit system. Apparently an advanced US degree and some OPT work experience almost guarantees them Canadian PR(and eventually citizenship) and if they can find an interesting job in Canada, I'm willing to bet that many will jump ship. From an American perspective(anecdotal), I don't see many of my friends being interested in hardcore engineering/medicine and we seem to be more and more unwelcoming to the ones who are really interested in working in these areas here. What I can see is that, if I was Canada/France/Australia, I would really take a look at attracting the next generation of scholars right now. The current climate is very conducive to poaching the best students.
Well, on the one hand I'm glad I wasn't the one to say that...
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Detroit wasn't wrecked by immigration. It was built by it, and will likely be rebuilt by it. What wrecked Detroit was good, old-fashioned, locally-born corruption, racism, and differences in labor rules between states (aka race to the bottom).
I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible that we need to act like Sergey Brin and Larry Page are gods? Long before Google we had dozens of Search Engines. Perhaps without their "help" we would have a thriving Internet ecosystem instead of a monopoly on so many online services. We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers, not some university grads that put together yet another copycat website.
Hate crimes can be for reasons other than skin-color. If 50% of the rise is due to "anti-white" hate crimes, the other 50% could be things like anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-jewish (or anti-catholic or anti-some-other-religious-group), anti-trans, or anti almost anything.
Technically, hate crimes include (https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/civil-rights/hate-crimes) "crimes in which the perpetrators acted based on a bias against the victim’s race, color, religion, or national origin, or based on biases of actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, or gender.
US universities have had a uniform slope of increase in price and a corresponding uniform slope of decrease in return of value. Anyone who does economics 101 was expecting an inflection point. This process has been going on for ~20 years. It costs more for a year of school today than it did for an entire engineering degree program 20 years ago. The program then was higher quality, and a graduate made substantially more than today.
Only the MBA morons in charge are surprised this happened. They had a huge fiscal conflict of interest that drives them to put their head in a hole and sing la la la so they can't hear anything but "money money money". It is the first domino in a string. If you think this hits your pride, wait until #3 hits your pocket-book, again.
EngrStudent.
And that was all done with legal immigration right?
Yet reality doesn't quite agree with you. Developed countries with strong protectionism (e.g. the United States) have lost far more of their manufacturing bases than countries with lower trade barriers (e.g. European countries and Japan).
There's a reason why civilization is founded upon economic regulation - something that a minority (those that need the most regulation, as they have the most wealth) has ALWAYS hated and resisted, leading the ruin of many empires, both directly and indirectly. (Countries are easier to invade once the rich have gutted them.) Unfortunately, the rich are also winning, heavily, at this time, and so civilization is starting to suffer. Trump will merely accelerate this process, but no-one has really resisted it for a while.
They couldn't theorize that maybe that it might have something to do with the rampant looniness going on in US campuses and their PC indoctrination centers?
I'm a non-US citizen who attended a US college (and returned home). And i would have a long (like really long) hard think about sending my children to a US college nowadays where they might come back home believing there are 37 genders or some equally silly nonsense.
US campuses (from outside the US as depicted in the media) seem less about institutions of learning and more about institutions of brainwashing children with political propaganda.
You might just want to check about those taxes - I suspect you will find your leaders have been busy slashing university funding for the last decade to help pay for tax cuts.
Gooks are like fucking locusts.
I have been told more than once that American medical students are treated worse than the rich foreign students who bring in all the money. The schools can only hand out so many degrees and will always favor the money source
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the exploding cost of education, it must be all Trump's fault.
When he signs the save-the-billionaire tax deform bill, U.S. citizen graduate students earning $20-35k on tuition waiver assistantships will face the very highest tax rate. For example a graduate student earning $32,500 on an assistantship at a private university would pay taxes on $81,440. They would face a higher effective tax rate than Warren Buffet, George Soros, Bill Gates, Donald Trump...
This punishment for those who seek a Masters or PhD (doctors for example) would apply to U.S. citizen graduate students in the U.S. and those who study abroad for example on a Rhode's scholarship at Oxford UK. But the republican anti-edumacation tax would not apply to foreign students on a scholarship in the U.S. This means the xenophobic Republicans out there are going to have to cope with more doctors, TAs and professors who speak with a foreign accent. All this because education is toxic to the Trump fork of Republicanism.
because after a few years of living the good life they just plain forget what they bad life is like. They start to blame people for their poor condition to justify their opulent life styles. I've seen it time and again on smaller scales with the middle class.
Some of it's malice, but a lot of it is just plain being in a bubble. I've been crushed by a bunch of family illnesses and I can't tell you the number of times my better-off friends and extended family have wondered why I didn't just pay somebody to fix something that was broke or buy a new car. They literally have no clue.
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When you have a xenophobic president, a crumbling infrastructure, and astronomical educational costs, why wouldn't you?
but unless you're in the top 10-20% your life is pretty much shit if you live in modern China, or Japan, or Singapore, or Russia, or Iran, or Brazil, or Mexico. You're ignoring vast swaths of poverty to focus on a fairly small class of well to do merchants.
Taken as a whole the majority of the planet _is_ a "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery". That's not me being an imperialist America. That's just the way things are. Go google some statistics on global income inequality if you doubt me. It's pretty terrifying just how bad most of the world has it.
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I keep hearing this and it makes me wonder if all our home grown talent is that worthless. Remember, we're still getting the best and brightest because we still have the most money for them and the safest place to live thanks to our enormous military and police state. What we're giving up here are the above average. And what I'm hearing is there are no Americans who are above average.
Plus if the ruling elite can bring in students from overseas already have 18 years of education what incentive do they have to fund education for local kids? Most people can't afford to send their kids to private schools. Before public schools only the very wealthy were even taught to read. The rich started funding schools because they needed educated workers. If they can get those workers without paying for the schools (because somebody overseas is) they'll do it in a heartbeat.
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It can't be because college has become a shit hole where people don't actually learn anything useful. In zero classes did they ever teach things you will actually use in your life, instead it was all theories. Real Estate class? Never taught anything about property taxes or purchasing a home, but love to talk about city layouts. Business class? Taught company structures and basics of working in an existing company but not how to file the paperwork to create your own, or set up accounting for your own business, or how to file taxes or understand tax laws for your business. Science classes? Yea, thanks for teaching me how the inside of a cell works but not how basic nutrition affects a body. Now the world is full of a billion conflicting opinions on what is healthy. Arts classes? Thanks for teaching me that skill doesn't matter, just throw some garbage together and describe it with very emotionally charged words so people think hard about it.
Globalism is the belief that first world people must have third world wages and first world living expenses.
it is nothing but enriching cronies at everyone else's expense.
Stop supporting the cronies and blaming the people for not wanting to get screwed by their own crony enriching government.
N i g g e r me once, shame on you. N i g g e r me twice, shame on me.
Who cares about the widespread abuses?
* illegal aliens get hired (illegally, of course) and locals can't get those jobs because illegals work for a fraction of minimum wage (which is illegal anyway).
* companies lay off locals and tell them to train their H1B visa holder replacements
* Microsoft has an office in Vancouver and uses unlimited L1 visas to import cheap labor to Redmond. US Citizens or green card holders need not apply.
What does all this have in common?
Stop supporting corporate welfare.
The ordinary people who can't get the jobs (that were laid off) did not benefit. Rich cronies benefited and you seem to like that.
Measured in real terms, USA does very well in both. Unless you measure optimism with a dipstick.
I am a drirector of a US R&D group for a large foreign owned company - the majority of our research PhDs at the individual contributor level are foreign born (most Chinese) - however most of research mangers and directors (all Phd) are native born. A couple of things are pretty clear to me 1) if there was not a good supply of highly skilled immigrant researchers my company would not have put its R&D in the US and 2) if you are a native English speaker who can compete technically with foreign PhDs you will end up in management - there is only a limited fraction of the population of any country that can perform at a high level, the US for whatever reason puts its high performers in finance or maybe software and then siphons the other specialists/talent from other countries - if this dries up I know at least for my company they will just leave - I also believe this is a key reason why the US has been technically dominant over other developed countries which have, in general, healthier, better educated populations
Sergey Brin and Larry Page take the US for granted. Russia, China, and the UK would be chomping at the bit to spend their money. Your argument is a complete joke along with your politics.
You clearly have not worked for companies like Disney, Abbot Labs, Cengage Learning, SunTrust, Southern California Edison, etc. who laid off their local people and replaced them with H1B visa holders, forcing them to train their replacements.
Clearly you think that political cronies are more important than the people. The visa program is a crony enriching program.
One of the issue is that American students are being turned down, even though many of them are as good/better rated than foreign student. A big part of that reason is that foreign professors are working hard to bring their own countrymen here, rather than simply picking the best. That needs to change.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
By and large, the only countries that could accurately be described as "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery" are those that the USA has attacked and completely, or partially, destroyed.
Keep in mind there are also countries that the USA has attacked and partially destroyed, but which can't be described as "gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery" - one such country is Serbia, where I live.
:)
I wanted to move westward, either EU or USA, up until few years ago. But then I realized that in the meantime a lot of people moved there, and from some I keep contact with I got negative feedback, mostly about the perception of being second grade citizens who are expected to be grateful.
Also this brain drain left local businesses with just a few of us BSD admins so we get quite a nice treatment moneywise, I dare say much better than what most of those who left get, when you take difference in price of living into account
I don't think I'll be sending my kids to foreign schools.
they care about now. Right now. The jobs are going overseas right now. The Automation is still 10-20 years out.
The reason solutions aren't going to happen. Period. Democratic Socialism and income equality are the real solutions. We're an oligarchy, not a democracy. MIT showed that in a study where they looked at how our government rules on issues vs what people thought on those issues. That's not going to change. People don't _want_ it to change. They're conservative. Because again, they're living paycheck to paycheck and they're terrified of any change that will push them over the edge to homelessness. That's not a bug, it's a feature.
The one viable solution that's being put forward is protectionism. Maybe we won't get it. But it's still the _only_ solution that has any political viability. Give people a choice between lesser evils and they _will_ pick the lesser. Yeah, it would be nice if we could stop picking among evils, but that's not on the table. Until we stop abandoning large swaths of the working class it won't be.
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No, the propaganda news and Hollywood here shows the worse of these countries. China is people chocking on smog in huts with dirt floors, Singapore is a run down slum that gets wet, Russia is broke and cold, Iran is stuck in the 70s and ultra religious, Brazil and Mexico has rampant crime, poverty and slums along with overpopulation problems.
These aren't even the countries that the US has attacked, those places are even worse. Africa and the Middle East...
Or one might get the impression that to criticize SJW stupidity is to burn karma by triggering a group that actively seeks to suppress speech they dislike.
Interesting how the post with the completely anecdotal rebuttal gets upmodded, seemingly oblivious of the events occuring at campuses like Evergreen college in Washington state, and the violent protests at Berkely to just name a few.
If the antics of anti-free speech SJW types on American campuses are going viral on social media and are making headlines on mainstream news, chances are good that foreign audiences will become aware of it and that reputation will be branded against campuses that aren't a hotbed of this kind of activity.
And they say right wingers can't be funny!
I object to the insightful moderation on this comment because it is fundamentally inaccurate. #PresidentTweety is the culmination of a long destruction of America, mostly from within, but also exploited by external adversaries such as Vladimir Putin. He was NOT the choice of "the people of the United States", but rather was able to stagger into the White House with the support of just enough mindless morons strategically located. I think the hilarious part is that the American system includes a number of safeguards that were supposed to prevent #PresidentTweety or anyone like him, but some self-proclaimed conservatives are so confused about "conserving" their own personal wealth that they actively supported the subversion of those safeguards.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
they see immigration as just another cheap good to be imported for profit. It's twisted to think that way but there it is. It's basically the same thing that happened to our transistor radio industry back when the Japanese started flooding the market, but with people instead.
What's more, Neither me or my kid can compete with a country of over a billion. Especially when that country eats people up and spits them out. Nobody can. They'll struggle twice as hard because if they don't they die in a gutter. And eventually we'll reach parity with them. Where the only thing that waits for anyone that trips up for even a second is the gutter. It's a race to the bottom. Karl Marx predicted all this but all anybody can remember about him is that Stalin & Mao borrowed his books for Rhetoric. Damn I hate people.
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I'll try to keep it simple: it isn't all the people in shit societies that are shit, just most of them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I'm a worker, not am owner. E.g. I work for a living rather than own things for a living. What concerns me isn't the overall state of the economy. What concerns me is my place in it. I don't care how big the pie is if I never get a slice.
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I qualified my post by saying that in other industries demand encourages more efficient producers to enter a market.
Education is probably the least "mass produced" thing in our country. It's very labor intensive and highly specialized. Pretty much the opposite of mass production.
Higher demand for Education drives up cost. Just look at the last 30 or so years. Demand for higher education soared and so did the costs.
they're not taking a risk because their country's more or less a hell hole. Have you seen the stories about New Delhi's air quality? Anyone who can get away from that does.
The problem is the ones that can get away usually the upper casts. In the States we called this "White Flight". The only people who are in a position to make a positive change leave as soon as they can and leave a blight in their wake.
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I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible that we need to act like Sergey Brin and Larry Page are gods? Long before Google we had dozens of Search Engines. Perhaps without their "help" we would have a thriving Internet ecosystem instead of a monopoly on so many online services. We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers, not some university grads that put together yet another copycat website.
I don't think the Google founders are gods, but the reason we don't have dozens of search engines anymore is because Google was way better than they were. I remember the days of Lycos and WebCrawler and AltaVista, they were terrible at giving relevant results. Google became the biggest search engine because they were the best. It wasn't just a "copycat website", it did the job way better than the existing companies. Perhaps without their "help" (nice scare quotes!) we would still only have terrible search engines and walled gardens like AOL.
Enigma
>United States has strong protectionism
>Japan has low trade barriers
Jesus Christ, put down the bong and read what you type before you post it.
Sounds good to me. Now all of the Millenials can get jobs, move out of their parents basement, and stop trying to bring down their own country via Antifa movement. But I see, the reason you Liberals want to give our jobs away to foreign aliens is so that you can have these aimless Millenials loaded with college debt out on the street demand more socialism and big government.
The fact is, we have plenty of talent and people here in this country perfectly capable of developing all of the technology we need. This whole idea that technology will suffer unless we import foreign aliens is a thinly veiled racist attack on the American people because it suggests that Americans are genetically inferior and therefore we need to bring in foreign aliens who have superior intellect.
The fact of the matter is the entire economic recovery is an illusion created by big corporations who want to trick us into allowing our jobs to be stolen based on the lie unemployment is low. If you look at labor participation, the lie falls apart, There has been no increase in the actual employment rate since 2008. The trick is to not count people who have been unemployed for a long period of time and have given up. The employment rate remains at record lows.
Also numerous studies have shown that the US IT industry is vastly oversupplied with labor and that we have more than enough supply of STEM applicants for jobs. Bringing in foreign aliens is both about undermining american young people so they remain locked up in their parents basement instead of getting jobs and starting families, about supplying the Democratic party with welfare voters and aimless agitated or neglected people who are fodder for Democratic parties quasi-communist statist uprising. These uprisings are to take away freedom becuase the Millenials are being manipulated into demanding bigger and bigger government, more taxes and more control over money by government, rather than by individual people, in order to fund massive welfare programs. Millenials have been duped into voting for a party that gives their jobs away to foreign aliens and then manipulating them into supporting massive welfare. The millenial basically votes to give their jobs away to foreign aliens and then they demand welfare to compensate!. This means, less freedom to be able to decide how to live our own lives. The fact is we have a collusion between corporate and government in the country to 1) make sure that large numbers of millenials remain unemployed, 2) exploit this to expand the power and control over wealth of the state-corporate complex. This is why so many corporations are run by people who shaft the american people even though it leads to more welfare, this is because the government and corporations are the same people and the same elites and most corporations are run by communist-globalist totalitarians. Little about many of these big corporations is free market capitalist, none are based on entreprenuiralship but instead based on locking up markets with oligarchies. Big corporations are simply tools for a bigger agenda of expanding the control of the elite, it doesnt matter if its via big corporations or government.
The best way to defeat this is to STOP ALL IMMIGRATION because this would stop them from shafting the american worker adn require a decent wage for americans. This would give us more freedom as it would put more money back intoi the pockets of everyday americans so individuals can decide where to spend money and thus how to run their lives, rather than government through massive welfare programs (which WILL eventually demand people give up their rights )
You might get that impression, but for me the fact they are all AC and all using the same hyperbole is a factor. Or to put it another way - a named person with an anecdote >= pseudo horde with anonymous hyperbole
And I have been through a lot of it. I have an M.A. and have done successful work in academic publishing and still deal with professional academics all the time.
The fallacy is assuming that education = college. Often college is just really expensive indoctrination. The economics are NOT sustainable. The student loan debt bubble in the U.S. is higher than aggregate outstanding credit card debt. There is a tidal wave of graduates who are over-credentialed by the academy but under-employed because they lack he skills necessary to make money.
College often makes people dumber, since they leave THINKING they know more than they actually do. That makes them arrogant and unwilling to be corrected even they are blatantly wrong.
You do not need to pay an entitled professor six figures to tell you what to think. Spend three figures, buy a bunch of books, and educate yourself. Then use all the extra time and money you will save to go invent something, start a business, or learn practical skills.
https://jamesaltucher.com/2010/02/dont-send-kids-college/
Come down to Australia mate. Plenty of smart people here. We invented WiFi and medical penicillin. Sure, the place is full of creatures that can kill ya, but you get used to that. We might sound racist, but we're just having a laugh with ya. Just crack a few jokes and a few tinnies after class and we'll get on like a fuckin house on fire.
Are the facts inconvenient to your world view?
That's just what the SJWs want you to think
You think McConnell, McCain, and Ryan are leftists? What a very strange world you must live in.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Only some of the wages paid to workers is spent in the local economy, though. They money I pay on my mortgage goes to a bank that doesn't even a have a branch locally. Whilst I pay for groceries, a lot of it isn't produced locally. If I pay to watch a movie on TV the electricity to make the photons dance wasn't produced locally, and the movie wasn't likely shot locally (tonight being an exception).
What proportion of wages paid to people that work in a city actually stays in a city?
You mean, insight into how Trump sympathizers are regularly victims of violence in the universities?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Long before Google we had dozens of Search Engines
And they sucked. The widespread pre-Google belief was that search engines would always suck, because there was no way to pick the relevant results out of the noise. Big human-curated link directories (like Yahoo!) were the way forward. The came Google, and it was so much better at relevance that it destroyed the search engines, and so much better at freshness and coverage that it destroyed the link directories.
Perhaps without their "help" we would have a thriving Internet ecosystem instead of a monopoly on so many online services.
Again, there's a reason that Google is so dominant, and it's because the products are that much better than the competition.
because that's what it is when you have to import droves of highly talented and educated Europeans and Asians to do the job for you. Hilarious. And then you accuse their host countries of stealing "your" IP when you literally brought their students and tech workers over. Hilarious.
You might just want to check about those taxes - I suspect you will find your leaders have been busy slashing university funding for the last decade to help pay for tax cuts.
False: you will find that the percentage rate of funding increase has been cut. Instead of getting 150% of the funding that the school got last year, they only get 120% of the previous years funding.
Most of Europe is quite pleasant to live in
the only countries that could accurately be described as "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery" are those that the USA has attacked and completely, or partially, destroyed
You seem to be confused. The US attacked and more-or-less completely destroyed most of Europe, as well as Japan. It then imposed upon them an authoritarian regime, only gradually allowing them a return to autonomy. And yet those parts of the world are, as you say, quite pleasant to live in.
At the other end of the spectrum, the continent with the worst standard of living, Africa, is the one which has received the *least* attention from the US, excepting perhaps Australia.
We even have a neat, controlled experiment, in West and East Germany: one invaded by the US, the other by the USSR. The gap between these has diminished since reunification, but the West is still much better developed.
Overall, I would have to say that having been invaded by the US is a pretty good indicator of being a nice place to live.
When I was an aspiring student, everyone wanted to go to the USA. It was the holy land of prosperity and opportunity. But I somehow landed in Canada and I'm thankful for it. The once glorious USA is no more. Recently I went to the US consulate due to work and man it felt like going into a concentration camp. The USA still has a lot going for it and it's still the single superpower in the world. But it's fall is visible and fast.
Because when white people do it is white privilege and they were guaranteed that success by the color of their skin. That has been the media bias for years. Do you think Rush Limbaugh will ever get the credit he deserves as an entertainer or commentator? No. Ratchel Maddow and her cooks are the accolades because tits and being a faggot.
When a brown/yellow person does it its celebrated as the greatest thing ever.. some poor nong farmer came from nothing to success. Well so did the white guy, but white success is not celebrated.
Your racist statement actually supports the parent post's point- immigrants work hard. You don't think locusts just lay around the farm all day getting the cattle and sheep to bring them all the grain do you? Work on something better and try again.
"alternative_right" presented the false dicotomy. Fuck off.
Why the fuck are you running as a Democrat? I have read your tripe on this site for at least 10 years. You're anything but a Democrat. This diatribe is one great example. You are blatantly supporting the exportation of our jobs and seemingly shitting on the notion of our "expensive" minimum wage. All while claiming "complex problem". It's complex because you're ignoring the obvious solution. The best times these old fucks like to go on about had corporations and the wealthy paying a much bigger portion of taxes. The problem is the pile of gold these old ass dragons keep guarding. Slay the dragons, fix our problems. One claim says that paying 0.11% of the workforce more money doesn't do shit. What percentage do we need to get to before it's "substantial"? IOW, pay everyone better and we all raise our standard of living.
Unlike the Repubs, I can make a choice that's detrimental to my own party, so I hope that you lose. It's that simple. We don't need a Democrat who's a Repub in sheep's clothing.
the world's best and brightest
We don't need them, we have all of Somalia's doctors and rocket scientists.
Fair enough. Could you be specific about the hyperbole that is being used though? Because in the AC's comment that was modded into oblivion I didn't see anything that could not be backed up with examples such as the ones I mentioned. Some of the stupidity may also include the infantile 'safe spaces'.
It is also difficult for me to find hyperbole there when Antifa is putting up posters on campuses of people's faces that they've decided deserve harassment or worse.
Why doesn't anyone address the possibility that maybe the students don't want to be forced an ideology they don't agree with at US colleges?
The real solutions are hard, and blaming immigrants and globalisation is easy. That's the problem.
Exactly this!
First they caved to those Millennial snowflakes who consider free speech an obsolete Boomer holdover. Then they caved to the calls to hound as many male students and faculty off campus on whatever flimsy charges of sexual harassment, unsupported by due process, that they could dream up. If they drive away the Asians and their money, they're done for.
They own you boy.
Get off your fucking knees and get back some self respect. I realise slavery is in your DNA, but fuck..... stop being a toilet for half of asia.
I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible...
Chill, it's merely an example. America is successful because post war it attracted a *lot* of successful and ambitious people. The last 70 years of American success is a direct byproduct of this.
GP is merely making the point that if you change this dynamic, you might have to get used wealthy and successful industries no longer making America their home. This flows on to employees and taxes and overall economic growth. If you turn the tap off, don't be surprised when you get thirsty.
We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers,
This is the point. The next Wright Brothers might not be American, so wouldn't you prefer they came to America to start their industry and share the prosperity, or stay in their home country and make other people rich instead?
Who will fill all the vacancies at US Universities? Perhaps more American students?
Ken
And here we see one of the core distinctions that needs to be made - when you have a legal immigration program, there tends to be a fairly high bar. This high bar puts them well above the average native citizen, whether it be in ability, eduction, or even just motivation.
Giving them jobs does. Calling them racists just pisses them off more and makes them double down. Stop screwing over the working class and their stop screwing over you (and themselves). Until the working class stops fighting among itself guys like Trump are going to keep winning and you and me are gonna keep losing.
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Fuck the Horde! FOR THE ALLIANCE! For Azeroth!
or China if the US is the leader in science or technology? Well guess what, it doesn't matter to somebody in Detroit. Nobody cares how big the pie is if they don't get a piece.
Us techies abandoned the blue collar workers when we let NAFTA through with chants of "Update your Skills", nevermind we cut funding to any real programs to help them do that. PEOPLE IN THEIR 30s AND 40s CANNOT WORK FULL TIME AND GO TO SCHOOL. Christ, most people in their 20s can't do that shit, that's why college drop out rates are so high.
I'm gonna Godwin the thread here: The reason the Nazis rose to power was because the rest of the world shit all over Germany after WWI. Now we've got entire swaths of the US that are in just as bad a state. Trump's a buffoon, but his successors won't be. And mark my words, they're going to do the same horrible things for the same reasons if we don't nip them in the bud now by giving people enough food, housing and education to do alright. Christ, it's like we didn't learn a God Damn thing...
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and they're plenty bright, but they're not geniuses. They're above average. And I know tons of kids who are just as smart and working at Walmart because they couldn't manage two work 40 hours a week while going to school while keeping the GPA you need to get into your 300 level courses these days and after Clinton & Bush Jr and a legion of Republican lead State Legislatures were done with budget cuts couldn't afford to stay in school.
What worries me about immigrant students is that we rely on the rich allowing us to tax them to pay for schools. Otherwise most folks just don't get to go. That's just a fact and you can hide from it if you want but it's there waiting for you. Now, if the rich can get kids ready to go from overseas why the hell would they pay the taxes needed to maintain an educational system? It just doesn't make sense. And you're seeing the effects of that now. What reading this didn't go to school with mostly Chinese kids in the CS dept? How many classes did you have taught by a Chinese person (often that barely spoke English, boy that was fun). You can look down on me all you want, but it doesn't change cold, hard facts. These were all cost cutting measures. Period. The rich aren't going to keep paying for your schools if they don't have to. Because why the hell _would_ they?
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and House before they were stacked with right wing wack jobs in the wake of the Mid-Terms. He was also busy trying to keep the economy afloat after the damage the Clinton/Bush deregulation did. What the hell was he supposed to do?
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businesses pay for them to come here and go to school. It's a back door to bring a worker in when they run out of H1-B visas. The bring somebody here who's already trained and for whom school is just a formality. They work as an 'intern' doing real production work. The business gets a cheap, well trained worker, the college gets a student paying fees but not really using educational services and everybody wins except the American worker who could have had that job but can't compete because they would have had to have a bunch of expensive training...
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You're looking from the outside in. He's a member of the working class and yeah, everybody else was more important than him. The US foreign policy was meant to help our aristocracy. It did a great job of that. But for everyone else we're just screwed. We're loaded with debt from our wars and our massive subsidies for the ruling elite. We work long hours in shit jobs and they get worse every day as outsourcing takes what few middle class jobs are left.
/..
The problem is we're local, not global. So globalism hasn't brought us anything good except cheap electronics we use to distract ourselves from our misery and vent a little on
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we've pretty much got everything needed for a modern economy. Even the rare earth minerals. The only reason we're getting them overseas is they're willing to abuse their population more than we are resulting in cheaper prices. China isn't better at manufacturing, they're more ruthless at it. Same with Mexico.
OTOH the rest of the world _does_ need us. China can't feed their population without our grainery.
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Why come to a country where everyone is angry all the time?
I'll give you this. Our lives suck. 60% of us live paycheck to paycheck, you've got no guarantee of health care or even food and water and you can forget about college if your parents aren't either rich or willing to give up their lives while you go.
Why come to a country where no one can ever be happy?
Also give you this. See above.
Why come to a country where all the stories are about catastrophic environmental destruction?
What the heck? You're barely allowed to talk about global warming and we just finished sweeping the whole "Puerto Rico destroyed by floods and still without power after 2 months" under a rug.
Who wants to come here to be told they're a victim every day based on something that happened before they were born in their own country?
Are you talking about Blacks & Slavery? Yeah, they're victims. It's called institutionalize racism. You saw it recently when a copy shot a well spoken black guy who was carrying with a permit not because he was racist but because a black guy with a gun made him unusually nervous. You saw it again when the NRA didn't lose it's shit over the incident.
Why come to a country where succeeding financially is considered evil?
That's the left, and it's mostly because rich people are doing evil things. Like taking health care away from children and the poor so they can have tax cuts. You do something evil you get called evil. Who knew?
Why would a young person join a group that only talks about historic grievances and never about future opportunities?
Are you talking about those damn confederate statues? I can't think of anything else. If you are those were put up during Jim Crow times to scare black people. If you're not I really don't know what you're on about.
Why come to a country where the leaders and entertainers and celebrities all seem to be among the worst examples of humanity?
I'll give you leaders. Not entertainers. Go watch late night talk. Jimmy Kimmel especially. That guy saves lives.
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we took them from them when we invaded. When it comes to weapons all that crap went right out the window. It'll be the same here.
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in the rust belt choose because they have nothing to lose. And we're going to get worse than Trump if we keep abandoning those people and yelling at them to somehow update their skills while working full time at 40 with kids.
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The Chinese Communist Party recently issued a proclamation that students educated in the west may not be compatible with "Chinese cultural values". I.e not be able to join the CCP upon returning, having difficulty getting a good job.
So of course they are less interested in coming. Particularly as Chinese universities are improving dramatically.
It is not all about the USA.
Foreign students turion actually subsidizes Americans student education. Usually there is no federal aid or scholarship for foreign students and hence they usually pay full cost. This helps universities balance things out.
Without this the education will become even more expensive and American student will probably not attend college due tuition cost.
In my experience, average American kids are mostly dumb and have little to society. The problem is not immigrants taking away jobs, to the problem is the culture and attitude of the kids. How do you expect to compete against likes of Indian and Chinese kids who study day and night vs average American kids who are busy with stupid shit.
> ... Current economic projections see the US overtaking China as the world's largest manufacturing nation in several years, based on US technological leadership ...
[ ... Citation Please ... ]
'Nuff said.
those that the USA has attacked and completely, or partially, destroyed.
Perhaps most notably, the USA itself...
More and more of my peers avoid us conferences now.
Not only is Trump discouraging clever immigrants, he is also dumbing down the country with his anti-science stance and soaring cost of education
You seem to be confused.
Don't you think that is a rather stupid way to start a commont that is mostly a huge display of historical ignorance?
We even have a neat, controlled experiment, in West and East Germany: one invaded by the US, the other by the USSR. The gap between these has diminished since reunification, but the West is still much better developed.
Not really. The division between West and East Germany was along the lines of the occupation zones, which were agreed upon by the major Allied powers and were not necessarily related in territory to which area was invaded by which Allied army. The Soviet zone of occupation became a separate country modelled after the Soviet Union, both economically and politically, with severe restrictions on freedom and back by the threat of Soviet intervention. On the other hand, people in the British, French and American zones were granted the freedom to form a liberal democratic republic with economic freedom and, ultimately, full sovereignty, in no small part as a response to the foundation of a communist state in East Germany and other events in the Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.
The period when a part of Germany was solely administered by the US was just a few years and even then, quite a lot of the policy was coordinated with the UK and France. Western Germany didn't start ouptacing East Germany until after the foundation of the Federal Republic, when the influence of the formerly occupying nations had greatly diminished and I am not aware of any significant differences between the growth and the development in the three former western zones of occupation.
Overall, I would have to say that having been invaded by the US is a pretty good indicator of being a nice place to live.
So, where will you be moving, Iraq or Afghanistan?
Big deal.
If 50% of new hate crimes are anti-white, it MEANS that WHITE people are the fastest growing group of VICTIMS.
All in all, 40% of the growth in hate is directed at white people because they were white.
For other groups, there was ALSO growth, BECAUSE hate crimes GREW OVERALL.
So no, it grew less for non-whites.
More bullshit - ever foreign student I met at college wasn't worth the plane ticket here, they could barely function on tests and cheated so much.
Then they get out and make companies that only hire them because they work for dirt cheap but produce crap products.
Good riddance.
Your an idiot! What difference does this jesuit president make to any of the other jesuit presidents. Morons always blame the puppet.
Could it have something to do with skyrocketing tuitions that has been fueled over the past 15 years by too much expanding caused by free money from the Federal Government?
In a lot of European countries university is free for citizens, and costs the government a fraction as much while still being world class institutions.
It doesn't "cost" the government a cent. It does however, cost the taxpayers. If a nation wishes to subsidize education through taxing their citizens and the citizens have no problem with it? Wonderful. Frankly, I am not terribly interested in subsidizing a BA in underwater basketweaving. I am already subsidizing the public education of children who were unfortunately dragged by their parents to the US, illegally. Want the education? Put some sweat equity into it.
Now if we can only get the government to finally pass laws BANNING foreigners from using our schools we may finally get our country back! And American engineers may finally be able to go back to work with decent salaries. Remember it is only the oligarchs who want cheap foreign labor, since the foreigners only serve to drive down salaries (basic supply and demand curves). There was a must-read book written about this phenomenon back in 1920 called "Rise of the Colored Empires."
Airfares to the US from many countries are being heavily discounted because fewer people want to go there, or even through there. Right now, travelers from Australia and New Zealand (minimum 12 hour flights) can get fares to LA, SF or Houston for as little as $500, less than half price. But flying to Vancouver in Canada costs more than usual and flights full up rapidly. This is partly due to the US requirng everyone to apply for a visa (even if from "visa-waiver" countries) just to transit the US - sit in a room at the airport behind security waiting for an onward flight to another country. Most countries treat transit passengers as nor really there. For many years the US has also required travelers transiting the US to other countries to fully enter the country, collect their bags, recheck them, and go through Customs and Immigration and security twice just to board their flight to the onward country. They never leave the airport. Now there is Trump and daily masd murders by guns and the true insanity of doing nothing to stop it. Just lots of useless prayers. It's a hot, ugly mess of unbelievable stupidity with no end in sight. Why would anyone want to visit that? More and more just don't. Much easier, safer and less tiresome to just go elsewhere.
Only boring people are ever bored.
What "innovation" for the most part foreign students are a drag on education resources. It is easier for a foreign national to get a seat in a university and is many cases the US taxpayer subsidies this through various programs only available to foreign nationals and if the foreign student qualifies they also gain benefits from Affirmative Action. Along with the US taxpayer foreign governments often assist their citizens in how to game the US educational system. As well as taking care of their own at the expense of US citizens more importantly they get access to cutting edge research. Foreign enrollment also drives up the cost of education since citizen cannot pay they can fill that seat with a will subsidized foreign student.
Good schools should be USA first and not foreigners on a full ride that pay way more then USC's and get first in line.
The majority of people who spout this shit barely make the effort to go to school, and it is not as if international students come here free.
Unlike us citizens, foreign students pay the full blown price of tuition, 4, 5, sometimes 6 times what we typically pay.
So don't tell me this "USA first" shit. At least when it comes to international students (the fucking focus of this fucking topic), it is bullshit.
It has nothing to do with Trump.
It has EVERYTHING to do with all the attention that colleges and universities have had recently in the media.
You can see all the UTTER BULLSHIT they are teaching and online videos of moronic clashes over free speech issues. Who in their right mind would send their kid overseas to be indoctrinated with this crap? Who would send their white child to a school that will tell them "all whites are racist", or "all white men must die" ???
Unfortunately, the view you see online shows all the extremes and doesn't show all the good quality STEM education that still goes on in these institutions.
Right, so the issue is perception vs reality.
If you watched youtube and news sites all day, you will see the utter leftist PC garbage going on daily. SJW and anti-white racist comments are pervasive.
Classes on "White Privilege" etc etc.
However, this isn't really what is going on for the most part. Not in STEM fields anyway. In a STEM degree, you don't have time for all that crap. You have some real classes to attend and some serious study to do.
Overseas, I bet people must think we are complete lunatics over here.
Education is expensive largely because the government guarantees student loans. Lenders are explicitly told that they will be "bailed out" which causes lending standards to collapse. The ensuing easy money leads to runaway prices.
The same thing happened 10 years ago with mortgages.
The underlying problem seems unlikely to be fixed anytime soon. Far too many people seem determined to ascribe blame to just about anything and everything else, with the most inane object of dissatisfaction being the fact that they are unable to force other people to pay for things.
I mean their social rules of their society.
Lots of these countries aren't free democracies so it's not the people who have chosen the shitty rules. It's not the result of the wish of the people. But for sure people can choose shitty rules too.
If it's a good leader then why not, if it's a leader you don't agree with then I guess you're forced too it.
"Kind" may be pushing it. But if you pick up a gun to use it you likely got reasons. But what do that have to do with shitty leadership?
No you are not rite. It's not like all North Koreans, Chinese, Swedes, Iranians, Turks, Britons, Germans are shit just because their leadership are.
No. Because they often aren't democracies. At-least not fully. It's not the choice of the people it's the choice of the leaders.
Even here in Sweden we don't have rulers who are selected by the people and choose our destiny. We've got self-appointed rulers who try to select the people and decide the outcome. Also the EU is ever expending in power moving it further and further away from the people it's supposed to rule.
The societies are created by just a few, not by everyone by equal possibility.
Not too many people flee to the US? And if they did I don't think they want to recreated what they fled from. Sure some leave their systems but those unlikely want them, but many others look for opportunity and those aren't "fleeing" anything, except "less items" if you consider that something to flee from ...
Why Americans think everything is Zero-sum?
Casteism