Slashdot Mirror
Some Students Say Having To Speak in Front of the Class is an Unreasonable Burden For Those With Anxiety and Are Requesting Alternative Options (theatlantic.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: For many middle and high school students, giving an in-class presentation was a rite of passage. Teachers would call up students, one by one, to present their work in front of the class and, though it was often nerve wracking, many people claim it helped turn them into more confident public speakers. "Coming from somebody with severe anxiety, having somebody force me to do a public presentation was the best idea to happen in my life," one woman recently tweeted. According to a recent survey by the Association of American Colleges and Universities, oral communication is one of the most sought-after skills in the workplace, with over 90 percent of hiring managers saying it's important. Some educators also credit in-class presentations with building essential leadership skills, and increasing students' confidence and understanding of material.
But in the past few years, students have started calling out in-class presentations as discriminatory to those with anxiety, demanding that teachers offer alternative options. This week, a tweet posted by 15-year-old high school student declaring "Stop forcing students to present in front of the class and give them a choice not to" garnered over 130,000 retweets and nearly half a million likes. A similar sentiment tweeted in January also racked up thousands of likes and retweets. And teachers are listening.
But in the past few years, students have started calling out in-class presentations as discriminatory to those with anxiety, demanding that teachers offer alternative options. This week, a tweet posted by 15-year-old high school student declaring "Stop forcing students to present in front of the class and give them a choice not to" garnered over 130,000 retweets and nearly half a million likes. A similar sentiment tweeted in January also racked up thousands of likes and retweets. And teachers are listening.
It scared the crap out of me, but I came out of my shell with encouragement from some kindly teachers.
It's a rite of passage because in life, we have to be brave about many things. Not just big stuff like warfare and hurricanes, but life choices and eventually confronting mortality (put it off as long as you can).
We need to raise people to overcome their disadvantages, not revel in them. We can be compassionate and help them do so, but they need this ability to be brave and we need them to have it.
Alternative Right.
I have history anxiety.
I have grammar anxiety.
I have science anxiety.
I have PE anxiety - in spades.
Can I just go home now?
I just asked my 14 year old, who has social anxiety. Even he realizes that it is an important skill to have experience with, even though it scares the crap out of him. This seems to be a 'bubble wrapped child' problem.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Speaking in front of a group is an essential workforce skill. Just quit the class. We won't hire you anyway.
"Stop forcing people to interview in front of employers and give them a choice not to".
Learning should include uncomfortable situations.
Well I'd be nervous too, given that a gunman could blast in the door at any second.
I'm a 40-something who just went back to school for another BS degree. I can't believe how many 18-20 somethings are *addicted* to their phones. It's much, much worse than I suspected. A lot of these kids freak out at doing *anything* that isn't an "app" on their phones. It's a really big societal problem that parents need to be aware of and address as early as possible.
I don't respond to AC's.
I know it really upsets you anti-SJW people, but the truth is it's not that hard to make accommodations for students who are made up a little differently from the rest of us. Some of our most brilliant authors, scientists, mathematicians, etc were people who had crushing social anxiety and it would be a damn shame to penalize them so early in the game because of it.
Yes, there will be lazy-ass bonespur children who just use this as an excuse to get out of a difficult assignment, but chances are they're not going to amount to much anyway unless they inherit some money, so I'd rather see ten of them skate than to lose one really talented student.
I'm coming at this from the point of view of a lifelong teacher in higher education (and elsewhere). It's your job to help out the students, not to crush their souls under your Jordan Peterson-esque boot heel.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Is discriminatory against your crippling social anxiety.
Can nanny state bring all life and make it happen there?
Requiring stupid people to correctly answer questions is discriminatory - which is the whole point of giving out grades.
Had to do it in school and thats about it.
Really havent used it since.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
I have an opposite fear: Sometimes I have to sit in an audience while someone who knows diddly squat about Open Source gives a speech about it (or even a keynote), and I would really like to engage them right in front of the audience and point out all of their mistakes, but in general that doesn't work for the audience. I just hate to sit through those things. About my most productive response was to write this in response to a completely clueless speaker.
But how did I become a speaker? I had a neurological deficit resulting in a speech impediment and coordination problems. Throughout 1-12th grade, I took at least 10 years of either instruction from a speech pathologist or year-after-year enrollment in the school's rhetoric class (which wasn't really addressing a problem in speech pathology). So, any fear of audiences was beaten out of me.
Most people hate and fear being in front of an audience. For some, the solution really is for them to one-on-one with a teacher. But for most, the solution would be early instruction that makes them more comfortable with the situation. The sink-or-swim method of just putting them in the front of the room is probably not the right way.
Bruce Perens.
I have quiz/ test / final / homework / writing thesis / 'letter grade below A' anxieties. I would like alternative options.
For most people public speaking is learned through practice. If you don't practice in school or at home where else will you ever learn overcome your anxiety in a safe to fail environment. I will give people with stutter and any form disability doing public speaking.
I would recommend the kid watch The King's Speech
Life itself is about dealing with the unknown and growing as a result.
I've done plenty of stuff that terrified me. When I say "terrified" I mean it literally made me vomit or piss in my pants from fear.
And you know what ? I survived and GREW from all those experiences. I am a better man as a direct result of having conquered those fears.
It wasn't easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is.
Part of the purpose of a formal education is to push you out of your comfort zone -- to have you try things that you wouldn't normally be inclined to do. My concern is that if schools pander to kids not wanting to give presentations, that entire skill set will wither away. We're already raising a generation -- a couple generations now, I guess -- of kids who are disinclined to interact with other humans. I don't think encouraging that is a good idea.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Ya, in 20 years when you're too afraid to walk out the door, you be demanding that "universal basic income" because you never developed communication or personal skills and it's society's fault -you're just another victim.
Just when you thought the snowflake generation couldn't possibly get any softer... they pull some shit like this.
Not just with standing in front of the class, but with dealing with humanity in general. Or technology, really.
Alternative Right.
Some other students say that having to clean their room and do homework before playing video games is an unreasonable burden for those with phat loot to grind.
Seriously, I hated speaking in front of the class, being forced to do it made me a better person.
Communication skills are critical in today's world, public speaking is a part of this and it's a vitally important skill. You need to learn that others rarely judge yourself as harshly as you do - everyone else is wrapped up in their own lives. Those that judge you don't matter and those that matter don't judge you. The sooner you realise this, the better your life will be.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Seriously, with those lights, you can't see anything when you're up there. Any anxiety should be drowned out by the effort you expend keeping your pupils from shrinking down to nothing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Think that life is going to be easy and they will never have to speak in front of people. Man do they have a wake up call coming when they have to get a job. Imagine even having to get thru an interview with the social skills of your typical basement dweller.
I just convinced myself to have absolute confidence and rehearsed in my head then volunteered to go first for the speech project so I'd do a perfect job and make everyone else twice as nervous by setting the bar that high. It worked and everyone was pissed.
This test is too hard! (So we lower the standards)
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
There are 2 elements to consider here:
1) A students score in an academic subject should not depend on their public speaking comfort and performance. Think about that. It makes good sense. Why does your science research project mark depend on 'eye contact' and not saying 'um' ? That's as ridiculous an grading a mathematics assignment on your singing voice and fashion sense.
2) Public speaking, and speaking in front of others is an important life skill and students need to learn how to do it; and should not be excused from doing it, even if it makes them uncomfortable.
Reconciling this really shouldn't be that hard. Separate the academic marks from the public speaking/presentation marks. Your science mark is what you know in science. Offer separate classes in public speaking and debate etc. Still HAVE the science presentations though, but apply your science presentation "presentation performance" mark to the other course. So no matter how badly you blow the presentation performance it doesn't affect your science mark; that's graded on the content you hand in.
People with anxiety will struggle in this 2ndary course; but at least it doesn't affect their academic marks. I'd say this 2ndary course should be mandatory -- public speaking is an important life skill that people need to do, but i extreme cases could be excused.
When debating was offered at school to our grade 5 and 6 kids, we jumped at the chance to shove them in at the deep end. They were nervous and unsure of themselves, but we persisted. We helped them with the debates, we practiced with them. Now in high school, they are both confident public speakers and are able to structure their own debating material. It's easy to spot the newbies from other schools.
Everyone needs to develop a few callouses before hitting the big world. Perhaps the parents of anxious children need to work on this at home.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Quite a lot of argument and dissension from people who don't even want to consider the idea of an alternative, or even accept the concept as anything other than something to disparage. So basically, they are committed to viewing this situation in a certain light that prevents resolution.
Which makes those who have legitimate concerns only feel validated since their very fears are being confirmed by the treatment they get.
Of course, there's also the possibility that the whole practice is a complete waste of time to the vast majority of people, and even worse, that those who do it well are often wasting time. Seriously, have you seen a smoothtalking politician lately? I'd rather deal with an anxiety ridden stutterer.
But heck, let's just have another round at the old water-cooler.
There must be a genetic component to it. Some time in our ape-like past the ape who spoke up was smacked down by the dominant male/female. Which means if you are the dominant male/female then there is no fear to speak out? So the playground bully probably has no problem speaking in front of class.
children can't vote.
On the one hand I want them to get an extra speaking assignement so they get over their irrational fear and stop whining.
On the other hand ... less competition on the job market from disfunctional people who never learned the most basic skills.
is the word that triggers mme more and more.
At first it was legitimately used towards vast number of people of race, gender, religion. Now it is used on bullshit like sexual orientation and disabilities.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
First, I was very uncomfortable with presentations when I was in school. I even dread the "Introduce, and say something about yourself." If I am a subject expert then I am fine with presentations; if I am not presenting as a subject expert then it is still painful, we are talking cold sweat and strong stress indicators level of painful. I will frequently choose to not go to events and meetings where I will be forced to speak. So, yes, I do understand.
Secondly, having students speak is boring. I really don't want to listen to the same thing over and over again.
However, it is in my state curriculum and I am required, by the district, to have a public speaking component in all of my classes.
One time I made a mistake, A student said, in class, "What happens if I don't get up and speak?"
I told him that he would get a zero on that portion of the overall score. He replied with "Oh, Ok, I'll take a zero." It was infectious, all through the room as I called on students the response when it was their turn was to say "I'll take a zero too." This was done in a cheerful tone. They felt, and stated to others that they had outsmarted me, all they had to do was take a zero. I heard about this from another teacher because several students were laughing about it in her class.
At this point they receive a zero and they wait in the office. Do I like doing it? No; but I am required to have a public speaking component in all of my classes. That is non-negotiable.
Wouldn't that be lovely. So the only ones who will speak up are the preachers and radicals.
Good Heavens, what a bunch of half assed snowflakes.
They shouldn't be forced to learn because it may make them uncomfortable to learn. /s
...doesn't even know where to start with that ridiculous run-on headline.
Sorry, but in real life you are eventually going to have to speak to others, even if it's just your job as a McDonalds register.
You are doing no favors by shielding people from talking to others. It may be rough but you have to at least try, otherwise go find a cabin in the woods and live out your days - in that case skip the classes as you'll not need them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Seriously, just do it.
I was *extremely* awkward and shy in High School/College and *HATED* public speaking. It's still high on my list of things I look for to NOT have as part of my job description. I am seriously bad at this kind of thing, but the fear of it it doesn't control me.
I was forced to do this in High School and College so I KNOW that I can do a presentation to a group, even a group of strangers. Where I still actively avoid such duties, but I'm not paralyzed with fear when doing such things is necessary. I don't want a job as a motivational speaker, but it was the standing in front of a class that got me past the fear of speaking in public. I don't like it, but I can do it.
So I say, get up there and do it, even if you are afraid, even if you are not very good, even if you make a total mess of it. If it's really bad, do it more often, join Toast Masters, what ever you need to do to make public speaking something you can at least muddle though. Your career and self esteem will thank you.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
... students have started calling out in-class presentations as discriminatory to those with anxiety, demanding that teachers offer alternative options ... a tweet posted by 15-year-old high school student declaring "Stop forcing students to present in front of the class and give them a choice not to" ...
Can't wait until he/she tries this at a job ...
But, more to the point... While I appreciate the difficulty presentations and public speaking may pose for those with anxiety disorders, people and life aren't always going to accommodate you. Learning to handle situations like this in a relatively consequence-free environment, like school, is to your benefit.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
It makes me uncomfortable to pay taxes. Yay, I'm excused from it! It makes serial killer uncomfortable not to kill. Yay, they can kill all they want!
Pretty sure I have PTSD from a math teacher who was an asshole and liked to humiliate me. I had bad anxiety and that made it worse now i fucking sweat in grocery store lines and have a bad twitch.
Thinking of trying heroin casue im fucked up
Social Media connects people and brings people together!
BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.
All so-called 'social media' does is let you pretend to be 'social', while in reality it's giving you every excuse to not be social at all. Text on a screen, or even pictures on a screen, over the Internet is not a substitute for actually interacting, live and in person, with other people.
I also blame smartphones being used by children and teenagers for this. 'Texting' someone is also not being 'social' in any real sense, it's just another excuse to not interact with people in live settings.
We've now hamstrung an entire generation because of smartphones and 'social media'. They have 'social anxiety disorder', don't know how to interact with people in a live setting, are socially avoidant, and because of this they now will not develop properly into adults. They'd rather be shut-ins and text people instead of being out of their houses and with their peers.
Want to prevent your own kids from being reclusive shut-ins as adults? Get them off social media and take away their smartphones.
Tests, lectures, and assignments are discriminatory /s
Also I have the commonly comorbid PTSD and resulting loss of empathy.
When SJWs have first world problems in front of me I'm triggered and will spend the next 3 hours silently pissed off that I spent my 21st birthday sleeping on deckplates in the straits of hormuz instead of crying about my anxiety to a professor.
These microaggressions are literally murder by a trillion pinpricks.
I have gym class anxiety, please change my C into an A.
I have testing anxiety, so, I should automatically pass the bar exam. I know of an attorney whom received 2x time on the California bar because he had testing anxiety, so that is almost an automatic pass.
We are raising a bunch of snow flakes that they are entitled to everything. There is free tuition, just not for dumbasses or double dumbasses.
I am triggered because you were not offended at what triggered me.
Fight Spammers!
his teachers dumped all over him. He wasn't a very likable kid (not his fault, Autism and whatnot). This kind of crap didn't stop until Columbine. The kids were still bullying but at least the teachers stopped. I guess my point is don't rely on teachers, who are overworked and prone to the same human defects as your average bully, to take care of the kids. They crap teachers didn't stop shitting on kids they don't like because they suddenly got compassion. They were afraid of being murdered.
Honestly, if you've got to your Junior year in high school and still hate public speaking then you're going to hate it for life. If a big enough carrot is dangled (or a stick) you might get over it, but rather than spending time hoping for a carrot that might never come the kid's time is probably better spent being left the fuck alone to study.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Being able, as a human, to speak to other humans should be a required skill to graduate from public school. I don't think that's at all unreasonable. The number of kids today who have *anxiety* is either a direct result of phone addiction, or it's bullshit, or we've changed the definition of the word "anxiety" in the past few decades, and I didn't realize it. I think it's 100% fine to make children be able to speak to other children, in order to graduate high school.
I don't respond to AC's.
I'm not sure I agree. Perhaps someone with social anxiety could host a lecture explaining their perspective?
Jokes aside, I'm presuming this is more about letting social anxiety effect your grade, and I can sympathize there. If a student is capable of writing a well-worded, informative essay with proper citations but just breaks down when trying to read it aloud, that shouldn't effect their grade. But they should still be led to try.
... down both legs when I had to give a speech in front of a class and the goddam subject was chosen for me.
I lectured in college about computer stuff and, because that was my wheelhouse, and I could answer questions on the fly or simply admit that I didn't know, I did well.
Later on I taught computer science on campus to adults after hours.
I even testified in court, drawing a scene and relating the facts and felt right at home.
I figured out what the problem was: When I was forced to make shit up, I did not feel I belonged on the goddam podium.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
...discriminatory to those with anxiety...
If this accomodation is made, it will necessarily discriminate against those who do not have anxiety unless they don't have to speak in front of class either.
I get anxiety taking tests. Should I not have to take tests? Oh wait, that's a thing.
"Stop forcing students to present in front of the class and give them a choice not to"
Don't they already have a choice, to pass or fail? Oh wait, no kid left behind means you can't fail a kid, because reasons.
It seems to me in middle school and high school we teach everyone a little bit of math, a little bit of science, a little bit of English, a little bit art, etc. Some people enjoy math and are good at it. Some people don't like math and aren't very good at it. People who don't like math shouldn't major in math at a university, but I think it makes sense for everyone to learn a little math, a little English, etc. Everyone should have some basic competency.
Same with making a presentation - not everyone enjoys doing that, and like it's good for everyone to learn a bit of math, it's probably good for everyone to do a couple of presentations and gain a tad bit of very basic competency. Most jobs will require a presentation at some point, every job will require taking a deep breath and and doing something you're not 100% comfortable with. Asking for a raise sure does, at most any job. Some basic competency in doing presenting, and a little bit of experience doing something that isn't easy, seems like a really beneficial thing.
In the U.S. we have the Americans with Disabilities Act, which I'm sure applies here. Schools have to make reasonable accommodations for disabilities.
A student/parent should be able to ask for a reasonable accommodation if public speaking is likely to trigger some serious negative outcome, legitimately CAN'T reasonably perform the task (e.g. severe speech impediment, etc.) etc.
But this seems to be asking for more. That it makes a student "uncomfortable" doesn't rise to the need for reasonable accommodation.
I wonder how many of these students have no problem at all making YouTube Videos, live-streaming on their favorite social platform, or entertaining their friends in person with their latest misadventures?
Maybe a remedial program to "bridge" these "skills" to the valuable skill of public speaking...
I suggest they try it.
If you can't stand up in front of me and explain why I should hire you, maybe you should apply at McDonalds.
If I interview you part will be explaining something to me with a pen and a whiteboard. Communication skills are non-negotiable.
...laura
If you're too shaky and unstable to do a presentation in front of a small class, give up now and drive to the tallest bridge. The level of coddling is out of control. If you never face adversity, the smallest of inconveniences will become insurmountable mountains.
I've become accomplished at public speaking, but I understand where these students are coming from. Part of it is that some students are just facing too much stress, and having to speak out in class is just too much especially since some of these students don't really have the skills to deal with the stress.
Yeah, it's a fact of life _later_ in life. But there's no reason to be harsh on everyone who has a fear of it and make them go up right away. How about instead have counsellors for students to help them deal with these issues, and let students speak in class when they are ready. Sometimes, throwing someone in the deep end is actually too much.
"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
If somebody has trouble in that area, perhaps special classes or work-shops can be provided whereby the student works their way up: speak to progressively bigger groups/crowds for progressively longer times rather than dive into the deep end on Day One.
We all have weak areas that we probably need special classes and/or assistance with.
I've seen no definitive evidence that traumatizing children makes them better adults, and perhaps has a net negative impact. Barring clear evidence for either side of the cowboy-vs-coddle debate, I believe my suggestion is reasonable and common-sense. However, it does require resources that poorer students and/or districts cannot afford.
Table-ized A.I.
That is your encouragement. An F. Alternatives? Yea, no. Fuck off. There is no alternative to speaking in front of people; you have to just do it.
A nurse has to be able to see blood without fainting and you just have to learn public speaking. Some things in life are not optional. Being able to present a topic to people is important and not being able to do that will hold you back a lot. You're not expected to be good at it, but if you are not, you are expected to learn it. Practice and you will get better at it, and being better at it makes you less anxious about it. People who laugh at other people's struggles are dicks. Disregard their rudeness. You're learning. You will do better.
I've passed on extended training at work, which includes paid bonuses, because of the requirement of final presentations.
I was completely wrecked for the two-weeks of introductory-level training, which also concluded with a presentation, that I vowed never to torture myself like that again.
Even if it means they fire me. Going on 15 years I've evaded it.
You may not like doing it in class, but what happens when your boss tells you to make a presentation? Are you going to cry discrimination,or just cry? More likely you will be reprimanded or fired. Take your anxiety medication and make the presentation. Very few people enjoy public speaking.
"Do something that terrifies you. Every day " - eleanor roosevelt
Its good for you. Deal with it.
The part that you miss is you completely limit your potential by reveling in your bubble. Enjoy it, but know you are less than you could be. Using your illness as a crutch only makes you a cripple.
Good-bye
Any scientist or engineer must be able to clearly and correctly explain things in front of an audience, even if that audience is larger. If somebody has anxiety (a serious mental condition, no argument) then they must find a way to still be able to do presentations to a group and interact with that group during and after the presentation or they will not be able to fulfill the requirements for the qualification they are aiming for. Sorry, no exceptions. You can't do it, you are not qualified.
I am all for helping them finding a solution or a workaround to the anxiety, but the presentation skills are a hard requirement.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
This brings up memories, not of myself but of one specific girl in high school that was absolutely terrified of doing presentations. the first time she went up in front of the class she barely did a minute and had her eyes stuck on her paper (which was blank actually) the whole time. She ran out of the class crying afterwards... the teacher went to speak with her and made her come back into class. The second the door closed everyone stood up and started clapping. Not surprisingly she did a lot better the other time around. That was freshman year... by the time Senior Year rolled around she was as comfortable as anyone in front of the class. I added her as a friend on facebook when facebook started becoming popular (yeah i'm old) and i was a bit surprised to learn she was actually working in theaters... The point is it`s not only the teachers that help people come out of their shell but also the people in the class that can make a difference. In today's individualistic society people are more likely to bully that person and that is the reason all those anxious kids don`t want to stand up in front of their peers
So which relative of yours landed you that job? Because nepotism is the only way I can think of that you managed to avoid having an interview.
...you think any of these Einsteins will make any correlation between this article and the "teens would rather text with their friends than talk to them in person" article earlier today?
Yeah....
Next up, that pesky homework they're always asking me to turn in. It's bad enough I have to go out and attend a lecture.
There's probably no saving the current generation. Maybe the next generation will turn out better. Assuming, of course, there is a next generation.
https://www.toastmasters.org/Magazine/Articles/Benefits-of-Campus-based-Clubs
may I be excused?
In my old school, for those of us who were too scared to talk in front of the entire class, the teacher would make them talk in front of a lower number of students, like 7 instead of 35. It helped. It really isn't that hard to take the students out of the class to go into an empty room for 5 minutes while another school staff is checking the class.
I've taught thousands of students in a well-known college. Of these, there has been one -- exactly one -- who had a proper anxiety disorder. This student utterly flunked tests when given normally, but when given in a quiet room (monitored, still) without time limit, was an A student. Talking to them one-on-one, it was clear they were smart.
It was easy to accommodate this extremely rare student, and they went on to be highly successful.
In contrast, I had performance anxiety (no not that kind!). Didn't like to be on stage, either in a play or when speaking. At one point, my position required that I speak in front of a couple of hundred students for the first time. I sweated blood in the bathroom beforehand but sucked it up because, damnit, I knew I was a great teacher one-on-one, and this was just teaching. I could do it. And I did. Since then, I've lectured in front of vastly larger audiences (up to thousands). I still get nervous with big audiences. I still sweat blood, but, damnit, I can do it. I've figured out how. I developed a new skill. I overcame my fears.
Little Johnny who doesn't want to speak in front of a class of 20 needs to be taught how to grow a spine. The Little Johnny who is pathologically incapable of such personal growth is an exceedingly rare bird and can be easily spotted. The others are crybabies and such behavior should not be tolerated.
I'm too nervous to be confronted by customers. I'll just stay back here at the fry station.
“Nobody should be forced to do something that makes them uncomfortable,”
Yes indeed. Like taking an exam, learning a subject they are not good at or learning about what happens when they screw up in their job....
If you cannot do things that you feel uncomfortable with, then you are disabled. I am all for supporting genuinely disabled persons, but they (with some exceptions) cannot be engineers or scientists. Sorry about that, the degree is not an award, but a certification of competence.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Millennials...proving once again to be the lamest generation yet.
http://www.themainewire.com/20...
You will quickly realize nobody is really listening, and you can play and say whatever you want. Some are listening, but their so drunk, they're already in love with you, so it doesn't really matter.:)
1) doing things you don't like but have to IS something worth learning how to do.
2) if you don't like it, why don't you just come up in front of the class and explain why?
-Styopa
It might as well be an insane asylum. All assholes given free reign with no consequences. It's an incubator for bullies. I was always in trouble for fighting back to the bullies, yet they were treated as heroes due to their standing with whatever sports team. I dropped out of high school and went to the University of California for my Bachelors degree. Students were respectful and friendly, as were the professors. It was a great learning environment. K-12 principles are biased judgmental dickheads with no comprehension of what goes on behind their backs. Speaking in front of class and doing well would put a bulls-eye on your back in K-12. Speaking in front of class and doing well at the University helped me make friends. The environment in K-12 needs to change. Most bullies do grow up and become normal respectful citizens. The rest seems to end up in jail or in sales.
even with a group. You're interacting with that group, and the group is generally 3-5 max. Public speaking usually means a group of 10+ that you're not interacting with except maybe for a short question/answer phase at the end.
There are times when I think we subject people to unpleasant things just to do it. I know that there's lots of folks who, because they got ran through the wringer when they were kids want to see kids growing up go through the same. e.g. it's not "fair" that they had to suffer and the next gen doesn't.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Reality is discriminatory against people with anxiety.
While I was going to College one of the best things I ever did for myself was get myself promoted to a supervisor on the front end of the grocery store I worked in. Yeah, it was constant panic attack for me for a while but within an admittedly lengthy period (most people wouldn't have taken as long and I was put on discipline a few times for making mistakes due to my nerves and was literally almost fired) I had that shit nailed and coming out of that I am far more well adjusted. After that experience I intentionally put myself through my rate of panic attacks drop to record lows and nowadays I literally just don't get them. In fact, for some absurd reason people generally regard me as an extrovert nowadays.
Now trust me, it fucking sucked ass initially but honestly I regard that move as equally valuable as the degree I got going to college. Also, don't get me wrong here, there are people that have very legitimate psychological issues well above and beyond what I used to have and my trial by fire experience might even be harmful for those types. Ultimately though, those people really are the minority and most shy people just need to force themselves out of their shells.
Shy people: The simple fact is you'll be far happier forcing yourself out of your shell. It will be awkward hell at first but humans are inherently social creatures. Ultimately, we need social contact to thrive.
Also, your sex life will probably be better in the end.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
Are these students being forced to speak about things for which they have little knowledge? Should we be happy that we are forcing students to bullshit their way through such busy-work assignments? Is this a rite-of-passage we really want to continue in our society? Do we really want to encourage more generations of people who can effectively speak out of their ass?
yep, whole bunch of pansy wimps. If you cant talk in front of 30 people you deserve to have a career at macdonalds
Ah... dodge ball....nothing like getting smacked in the head......and though I never liked it, glad I played it.
You want to be a leader? It's a fact of life that a leader cannot be like this. It doesn't matter whether you're a man, a woman, gay, straight, pick a race, etc. Human beings simply don't want to follow someone that introverted. Human beings in positions of authority will not put someone that introverted into authority over people knowing that it will be systematically dysfunctional.
Given that kids are more comfortable texting their friends than talking to them face to face, you are likely mistaken and the GP correct
what's this human obsession with watching some dumb fuck stand there and drone on about a bunch of useless shit? can we all decide as a species to stop doing that?
Marines stranded in Pacific lived side-by-side with rotting corpses, drank contaminated water, etc - all at the same age as a high-school senior quoted in this article
There were a bunch of guys who would have done all that shit except they were medically disqualified.
It's the god damn CURE for having anxiety in front of people
Not news. But now social media has popular opinions of CHILDREN dictating policies as if this was new information. WTF are the parents doing? It isn't parenting if they are backing up their kids on whatever popular whims.
I say this as someone who had major anxiety and I really don't like heights... it was far easier to jump out of an air plane the 1st time than it was to give a report. Suck it up you punks. Seriously.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Your software is just crap - written in crayon, fictional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine as a punchline to a joke by mmell February 17, 2017
Your premise that hostfiles are a good way to deal with advertising and malvertising is fucking insane - by JazzLad April 20, 2016
his hosts "program" is actually a broken batch file by xenotransplant August 10 2015
his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to be a laughingstock while consuming excessive amounts of alcohol by alexgieg September 25 2015
I like your tinfoil hat by Karmashock September 09 2015
that APK nut, I can't get him to stop talking about his piece of shit file by rogoshen1 Tuesday March 03, 2015
I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017
APK
P.S.=> When YOU do better than THAT by our /. registered peers, then talk (from behind your FAKE NAME for your FAKE LIE of a "so-called" WASTED life) - ok? apk
Nobody should be forced to do something that makes them uncomfortable
Being a high schooler in 2018 is more stressful than ever. Academic demands on students are high, kids participate in more extracurricular activities than in the past, and they are saddled with extra hours of homework.
This just makes me side with the bullies, as deeply flawed as they are.
Or had "bone spurs"
Really? Sack up, you turds.
Ir worked forma me, se were put in pairs and practiced between US, later WE both worked with another pair (4 students practicing between us) and at the end we got more confidence.
Meh, I am fine with this. My kids will be taught how to address an audience and be forced to confront the minor fears all kids have. And they will turn out to be better rounded people as a result. I fully expect that they will make more money and command more popularity than other kids too, because charismatic people do well in life. If other people don't want to prepare their kids for success, it isn't my problem.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I know many adults who've taken public speaking courses to get over their fear of it. And yet, kids are just told to do it by their teachers as if it's a perfectly natural rite of passage. Why isn't public speaking taught as a skill in school? It only comes naturally to a few, and I'm sure even those few could benefit from some instruction.
Dear Will, the plums were poisoned. -- Cheese Club
How does giving a presentation to an entire class prepare you for that? Typical interview situations are one on one or possibly with a small group, not in front of 30 people.
I find such situations extremely uncomfortable to the point where I think I might pass out.
But avoiding them is unthinkable.
You're supposed to be anxious in those situations, snowflake.
Let someone off for citing "anxiety" and anyone can get away with it. In fact some clever bullshitters can do this now to get time off work, special treatment in exams, assignments, etc.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
See subject "c6gunner" (fake name do-nothing nobody): You're a "ne'er-do-well" chatterbox (all talk & no work BETTER than mine) & you proved it.
APK
P.S.=> Don't take "potshots" @ your BETTERS like me you CHUMP (& I can say that since you ARE obviously a NOBODY chump do-nothing vs. me)... apk
The Spartans had an interesting society. When born if a baby was sicky or had a defect they would be killed outright. Boys were taken from their families at about 8 years old and put through a soldier training program that instilled courage, cunning and fortitude. They would be forced to fight each other, steal to survive, yet be punished if discovered. I'm not exactly suggesting we go back to this kind of society, but we could at least try to overcome our limits rather than cling to them like young children clings to a blanket.
c6gunner has "cat got your tongue" fear HERE https://linux.slashdot.org/com...
What's the matter chatterbox? SUDDENLY YOU WERE UNABLE TO SPEAK FOR YOURSELF WHEN I CONFRONTED YOU ON YOUR BULLSHIT DIRECTED MY WAY!
* Why's that CHATTERBOX?
(You BLABBER on this forum ALL DAY LONG & yet suddenly when asked to show YOU DID BETTER THAN I (though you attempted to 'mock me' 1st no less) YOU SHUT UP & THEN IMPERSONATED ME ALSO YOU TOTAL LOSER!)
APK
P.S.=> So - is it since you are a DO-NOTHING CHATTERING "ne'er-do-well"? I'll answer that one - YES... apk
Well, not much besides 1 or 2 times in the early years, nothing as a teen.
Considering I'd rather go to jail or something than publically speak, I think they should probably try and help kids with this.
I'm a professor and I have anxiety about today's educational standards.
Can I just teach you something challenging and useful now?
Should passes be given for tests, reports, and projects?
We had a high school in our city which introduced a "no zero" policy that no student could even be given a zero in a test. They made the local headlines for firing a physics teacher who refused to not give a zero to students who, after repeated deadline extensions, cajoling etc. still refused to do and hand in assignments.
I got a laugh out of my colleagues in maths for suggesting the perfect solution to this. Don't give them zero, give them an imaginary number as a grade. It's consistent with the letter of the policy, it's an extremely appropriate grade for their imaginary work and, while the students may have learnt nothing else because they have done no work, they will have learnt what imaginary and complex numbers are!
I had to undo all the conditioned anxiety of this school presentation torture. But after that, it just became a great way to influence people to my PoV.
It's weird how everyone says all kids have to suffer in the same way they did. It's like a rape victim everyone has to be raped.
and now we're supposed to change laws? WTF?
STFU and go back to class.
Climate change. It's turning students into spineless ninnies.
First day of work is more likely 30 on one: looking at you, expecting some sort of information on, who you are, what your previous experiences are, what kind of person you are.
This interaction shapes your entire employment: How people perceive you. How interested they are in interacting with you. If you're going to sit in the corner and do your job, or be an integrated part of the team. If you want to be one of the people that are asked for advice/opinions on whatever you field is. You need to be able to speak to a medium sized group. Quite frankly your skill set, is mostly irrelevant compared to first impressions. You can over time grow into the group, but it takes long time, and you need to have wastly better skills than your co-workers.
This is precisely what Special Ed is for.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Next up: Water wet! Pope catholic!
Ok, jokes aside. You have speaking anxiety? Quit winning and get some speaking and/or acting classes.
I did performing arts and even have a diploma in that and that has helped me to this very day. Highly recommended.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
A shy and timid big guy doing ballgame announcements in high school and college. He learned to break through. We all know the results. They may not be pretty at all times, but they were effective.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Drop out, go flip burgers. See? No anxiety.
DoN'T FoRCE ME To DeAL WiTH MY PRoBLEMS! FuCK YoU, THAT iS UNFAiR!
It scared the crap out of me, but I came out of my shell with encouragement from some kindly teachers.
It's a rite of passage because in life, we have to be brave about many things. Not just big stuff like warfare and hurricanes, but life choices and eventually confronting mortality (put it off as long as you can).
We need to raise people to overcome their disadvantages, not revel in them. We can be compassionate and help them do so, but they need this ability to be brave and we need them to have it.
It scared the crap out of me, but I came out of my shell with encouragement from some kindly teachers.
It has nothing about 'bravery' --- all it takes is a change of mindset.
I used to have massive panic attacks on stage, my heart was like pumping so hard it kinda wanted to jump out, and my legs, both of them, couldn't seem to be able to support my torso. I couldn't speak, and sweat was raining, nay, pouring down like in a tropical storm.
I was a total hopeless case, until someone, a Pro, told me a secret ---
NEVER TREAT THE AUDIENCE AS HUMANS
He told me that if I can convince myself that the audience sitting in front of the stage are not there, that they are merely empty chairs, there is nothing to be scared of
My first thought was, "Yeah, fuck, you're pulling my chain" but then I told myself, why not give it a try.
I tried --- at first, it didn't work as advertised, of course --- but I gave that another try, and another, and another ...
The more I tried, the more "ease" I became, and now, I can go on stage and give an impromptu speech, anytime
There is no way I can 'pay back' that Pro for his generous suggestion, as he has passed away, but I can 'pay forward' , like I am doing here, sharing what I know with y'all.
Try it, and hopefully, one day you can jump on a stage and give a wonderful speech, while enjoy every second of it !!
Good luck !!
And if you have a speech impediment (a stammer) then it's hell. How people who don't stammer find speaking in public so difficult is completely beyond me (as a stammerer). Loads of people are going to get jobs where they never have to give a speech, so why force children to do this? Let them wait until they are adults.
Everyone gets a trophy. No one has to do anything hard or life changing.
Wonder why we whine so much....
My anxiety prevents me from taking a shower, driving, and cooking. I also have panic attacks when I see dogs.
So my immediate world needs to accommodate my personal struggles. You cannot criticize me for my smell. It is a hate crime.
Mass transit must be available at all times except for days when trains cause a panic attack. Therefore I need a bus. If these are not available, I am being discriminated against.
I also need food delivery and I shouldn't be charged extra for it because of my condition. Once again, discrimination.
Also, all dogs in my area of travel must be put down. If you don't, you are assaulting me.
Moral of the story - No one gives a flying fuck about your anxiety, especially since everyone on this planet experiences the same issue. EVERYONE. It affects each person differently and you either have to deal with it or get a continuous Xanax drip. It is not anyone's problem but yours.
Doing something that you don't like because you've been instructed by an authority figure is part of life. Do it in school and learn from the experience.
I remember a school biology lesson where we were each given a cow's eyeball to dissect. One girl in the class was really grossed out and didn't want to do it. "It's part of the course work - you have to do it" was the blunt reply from the teacher. (And in response to a statement that the pupil was vegetarian "I'm not asking you to eat it, just cut it up")
For better or for worse, success in life goes to the most successful and that generally means people who are the total package -- intelligence, charisma, attractiveness, social skills and a stable, self-regulated individual psychology.
Most everyone isn't the total package, they're only the partial package and only get the partial rewards that come with partial success. Unfortunately we've reached the point where people feel like they deserve the full rewards for only partial success.
I think some of the problem, though, is that our economic system has become so dominated by a winner-take-all mindset that we've kind of eliminated the idea of partial rewards for partial success. It's become either total success and total rewards, or no rewards at all. Partial success has become about the same outcome as total failure.
And I think we've built that unfortunate bias into our educational system and ultimately into our kids' psychology. I think we've created a society that generates anxiety and fear because we wind up punishing any failure and making that failure status permanent. Get behind in 8th grade? Now you're fucked. No AP classes in high school, no good college admission, no good degree, and a lifetime of economic and social marginalization.
I realize that this isn't completely true -- people can and do overcome problems, but the idea is so pervasive that I think we've put an entire generation into a permanent state of anxiety.
Everyone has anxiety. Everyone needs to get over it. Communicating with others demands it and no matter what your life choices are, you'll need to communicate with others.
Proof of reading capability is aided by reading, aloud, in front of others. There are a few things in life which are extremely helpful as much as learning to speak in front of others. Even today, kids somehow get into high school not knowing how to read. Unacceptable.
Few people enjoy it. Everyone needs to do it. I wish I'd been required to do much, much, more. My parents suggested that I take a few classes besides those in my pre-college requirements.
a) Communications
b) Auto mechanics
c) Electronics
d) Economics
and I chose to take 2 programming classes along with a foreign language, and the typical AP classes for math and sciences.
Each was important. Communications and auto mechanics more than most of the others, though the other classes have been useful too.
Every week, we had a different presentation in communications class. Speech was just one. Non-verbal, musical, inter-species and emotional communications were included. Each team made music videos, for example. I still remember shaking while singing some Tom Petty song.
Dad wanted me to take debate and boxing, but there wasn't time. 3 yrs of German hasn't been directly useful, but it has been useful in other ways. Spanish would have been much more useful in my life.
In language class, we had to speak in front of the class daily. Nothing like embarrassment to make a person try to learn.
Public speaking is an important skill. It is easier when you are prepared. It is also much easier when you don't really care what the audience thinks.
The line "teachers are listening" bothers me. Sure they are listening, but they are listening to parents, who are allowing their children to set the rules. It shouldn't work that way.
He who forgets will be destined to remember. - EV
So this plan is to not try.
Sounds like a great idea if you want a nation of wimps.
Always being comfortable is not natural/healthy/human.
It removes a great motivator to make us better.
Unless this person is so truely disabled that the public speaking is the least of the worries, she needs to try.
But in the past few years, students have started calling out in-class presentations as discriminatory to those with anxiety, demanding that teachers offer alternative options
Provided there's an actual medical justification (say a person is truly suffering from a verifiable anxiety disorder or something part of the autism spectrum), I don't think this is justifiable. If you can't come out of your shell when you are medically capable of doing then you shouldn't expect to be a functioning member of society.
The whole point of education is to prepare people to face the real world. Real world doesn't give a shit about real trauma (which is unfair mind you), so why should it give a shit about someone's discomfort?
Unless someone develops some sort of telepathy chip, this is ridiculous. I typically take heed of people's challenges, for there's a lot of real pain in this world. But his is fucking bollocks.
There are different ways to achieve the same usually. You can just write an essay and publish it nowadays. You can also cooperate with someone able to give speeches. I can't see the definitive need for the skill. But i can see the need to try it out few times to see if you are unable to do it or just you need to learn it like any other skill. As someone wrote you can't ask one with broken leg to walk it out but eventually you treat it and then you have to walk it out. I really dislike the idea that especially nowadays with mental disorders and such things people are saying "we need to accept it". We can only accept it if we fail to treat it.
A "reasonable accommodation" for a student in a wheel chair is an adjustable height podium. A "reasonable accommodation" to a student with anxiety is what? Not presenting publicly but instead doing what, a written report? A narrated slide-show? It is no longer the same thing.
That's a bit of an unfair comparison, as you've chosen a physical disorder which is at best loosely connected to the task at hand.
Instead, let's talk about "reasonable accommodation" for the student in the wheel chair for physical education classes. The standard says we time you running a mile. So a reasonable accommodation for the wheelchair-bound student is what? Not running but using their wheelchair to do the mile? That's not really the same thing. It's certainly not the same thing for Sarah over there, who is quadriplegic and in an electric wheelchair.
Other physical disorders have the same issue. Blind students in art class. ("Notice Rembrant's use of colors here ...") Or deaf students in music class. Or the student who is mute in speech class. "Hey you, student who is mute, stand up in front of the class and give a speech - in English, please, as we're grading your vocal inflection. Doing it in sign language is not the same thing."
And a if a normal person who had a bad life experience, who *should* be sad, is incorrectly prescribed this same drug. They also feel like a zombie because they are dulled even from normal. They can deal better with stress because they feel it differently, and they become dependent on that to cope. They end up being OK with things they shouldn't be. I have coworkers like this. They have been on SSRIs since their teens and they don't say no or draw boundaries like they should because they don't feel all that they should. One coworker who was normal lost his spouse, got put on SSRIs and then tried to shoot the bouncer at a strip club. He didn't own a gun or go to strip clubs before the pills. The suicidal and homicidal side effects are well documented. These drugs can help people who are sad or anxious when they shouldn't be, particularly to get them out of bad thought patterns, but persistent use has life changing effects that aren't all upside even for the clinically depressed. And giving them to people dealing with loss or stress that is a result of actual life events that should cause those feelings is a cheap but horrible alternative to therapy.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Shut up retard Alexander Peter Kowalski. You are just mad that you are so deserving of mockery for being a continual failure. Go suck some trucker dick so you feel better, you always do. Small children doing hour of code can create a better program than your dumb program which really pisses you off. That is why you keep demanding other show that they did better and when ignored it feeds your NPD because you fail to realize that you are the guy shouting at clouds. If you keep posting fake support for yourself maybe your parents will stop regretting not aborting you, hey anything is possible.
The one thing I envy about the American education system is its insistence for pupils to speak in public from an early age, starting with the Show-and-Tell sessions in pre-school. As a result, the vast majority of educated Americans, shy or otherwise, can stand up in front of crowd and do an at least passable job of presenting some material - certainly much better than people who were brought up in an education system where such a thing was not cultivated. What that kid is proposing is stupid and self-destructive - he/she might just as well be proposing to stop teaching mathematics to kids who have "math anxiety".
You don't have to be good at public speaking or even choose to do it.
There is an advantage because you may find support for your ideas from unlikely audiences.
You might also find audiences aren't receptive to your ideas at all.
It is just an opportunity. You either want the opportunity or you don't want it.
I could not stand presenting in front of class.
I was socially ackward, nerdy and frankly had what I now recognize as social anxiety. I did well in small groups (like 5 people) but you put me in a group of 10+ people I locked up. Now you want me to present in front of 20 people? That's crazy!
Did it effect my life? Nope!
I'm now very sociable. Probably could present in front of any group if I was a subject matter expert. Socially I did just fine! I think anyone in high school that saw my life right now would be shocked. Well, I was smart so I did OK. The kids/marriage/etc I think would shock everyone. Most shocking would probably be how well I handle myself socially now. I think a class reunion (if I ever go... have no desire to) will leave people shocked.
This 'proposal' to do something else is very WEAK indeed. :-)
Anxiety is there to get over.
If they never try to conquer their fears they never will get over their fears and then they stay weaklings.
I myself conquered a slight fear of heights by going paragliding:
First on the winch (we are in the Netherlands).
Try not to look down when grabbing the rope to release teh glider from the winch.
Later elsewhere in the mountains.
Heights up to 1600 meters.
Nothing extreme but a difference from a few hundred meters at home.
Now I got more comfortable doing that sport.
Will these millennials eventually understand things the same way?
Just like everyone else.
Let's go have cookies and ice cream and make all the hard things in life go away until the world changes to accommodate us.
Not afraid to get up in front of the class to complain about how bad it is getting up in front of the class tho, eh?
Just because they are anxious should no excuse them. In fact, the exact opposite. They need more to get over it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Agreed.
There are no free passes in life, and no participation trophies.
If you get a free pass on giving class presentations through your whole school career, how do you think you will fare the first time you have to give a powerpoint presentation at the office?
You can't live your life in a bubble.
Bullshit, we have lots of participation trophies; just look at all the confederate monuments, they even have them in states that weren't part of the confederacy. And motherfuckers get all ass-hurt when their participation trophies are taken away.
As for necessary, I have given exactly two professional presentations since college and I've been in the industry for more than 20 years.
So, we should consider changing the course of public education because a 15 year old's tweet got a lot of likes? It's social media. You can find something to support any crackpot argument you want. It doesn't make it right, or scientific in any way. Teachers, just because the new digital whining gets more attention, it doesn't mean you need to suddenly kowtow to it.
Forcing students to speak does put a burden on those who are shy and anxious. It is also true that taking tests and earning grades is a larger burden for those who are stupid. The public school system in the US long ago adopted social promotion policies so that the stupid students are not unduly handicapped by their affliction, so why not let the shy, anxious ones also get a pass on actually standing up and saying anything in class? The fact that it is good for them and that giving talks actually teaches them something seems to be unimportant to those in charge, or we would never be having this discussion at all.
What are they being taught? Public speaking is an essential skill, if you can't learn it , you haven't learned what you are being taught. So you fail. It isn't that hard.
Now, if you want to talk about accommodating a documented disability ok, but let's not try and pretend that people with a 4th grade IQ passed calculus , or that people who have a legitimate anxiety disorder passed classes on public speaking.
If only there were some way to train young people to overcome their anxiety and fear and train to deal with this situation with the support and skills to excel. But that they end up thinking for themselves and have the wherewithal to take on the status quo and make Real Change for future society. Then we would have Real Education! Can't that that! Shut up little student robots, get those score up on that standardized tests and be a good little corporate cog and consumer and don't make waves!
For those with a genuine diagnosed anxiety disorder, sure. (To do otherwise would be as stupid as saying that those with non-functional legs have to still do track and field.)
Because an otherwise healthy kid just happens to feel some anxiety? No.
You project you suck trucker dick and if small children do better code than APK why can't you c6gunner https://linux.slashdot.org/com... ?
I suffered from social phobia all through school and was only diagnosed in my 30's. Now called social anxiety, it is an irrational or unreasonable fear of being judged negatively, to the extent it makes it nearly impossible to speak in public. I was also bullied by teachers who forced me to speak before the class, or graded me down because I never volunteered.
However, once diagnosed, I attended group therapy at a local hospital for social anxiety and public speaking. Exercises were designed to start with fairly easy things, and work up to the most difficult and scary exercises. I received feedback from the instructor and participants about what I did well, where I didn't, and what I could do better. It builds confidence and educates people like me who simply don't pick up on the right way to hold my hands, the right volume and cadence, posture, eye contact, etc.
I think the proper response to this is to really teach students who have this problem the skills and tricks to help them succeed. They may never be the best at it, but they can be far better, more relaxed and more confident than they are. I really dislike the giving up approach, and the approach of just forcing kids to speak in public with no guidance or instruction on how to do it.
Make any kind of exception you'd like as long as it goes on the grade transcript and isn't directly subject matter related. I mean if someone had damaged their vocal cords and literally couldn't speak, should you flunk their math grade? No. But I also wouldn't complain if the transcript said "Exemption: No oral presentations" and "Exemption: Oral exam conducted in writing". Giving people the impression you've done what people who normally take your class do when you actually haven't will lead to lots of bad outcomes.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
What is school? Really, what is the overall objective of "school" as an institution?
It is to train and educate people for life. For children it also has the added goals of socializing them, providing the people skills they will need for the rest of their days.
Part of that education is learning how to speak to groups of people. It's actually a small but important part of the curriculum.
So, for people with anxiety, yes this is a challenge to you, and it may be very stressful. A good teacher can help with that.
Only for the people with "Acute Psychological-Level Pathologies", do we need to medical assistance and alternatives to classroom instruction. And I speak as someone who was very nervous as a public speaker. For everyone with garden-variety shyness and anxiety, I wish for you a good teacher and supportive classmates. Yet while they help, in the end it's the individual who needs to add this to their skill sets. Grow and learn!
It's already that people prefer to text rather than chat. Let's make *sure* that every single person, except some of us old farts, are TERRIFIED to interact with anyone else in the real world.
I am an extreme introvert. I was bullied constantly. Yet, public speaking forced me out of my shell (somewhat) and has been a very valuable tool throughout my life. So while I hated doing it at the time, now decades later I see public speaking as having been extremely valuable to me. Do we need to dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator? Allowing kids to opt out of public speaking only serves to harm them in the long run.
If you can't speak to people - then I can't hire you. Stick to your career flipping burgers.
You do this in a classroom - where it's safe - to learn to deal with fears. That way, when you are prepared when you have to function in real life.
I thought that was the whole idea?
to people who aren't smart!
Will students with test anxiety argue that they shouldn't be required to take tests?
Telling somebody with actual, real social anxiety or autism to "toughen up" in this situation is like telling somebody with actual, real depression to "cheer up". They have NO IDEA what that person is going through. And I can't blame them for having no idea, but...
I know you mean well
I don't think they do. I think most of the people posting here just came to beat their chests. Even the ones that offer good advice can't seem to do it without pumping their fist.
What is it with these kids? Anxiety is a part of life, if you don't learn to deal with it, sooner than later, your accomplishments in life will be minimal. The schools have turned these kids into powerful cowards. Powerful, yep, the teachers are afraid to upset parents as it will probably cost them their job, once again leading to anxiety on the teacher's side. Were these kids hatched by chance?
Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
The point of school is to learn. For most people communicating ideas effectively in front of a group is a skill people have to learn. What is going to be next, a petition saying students shouldn't have to learn math because some people find is confusing?
Can we PLEASE do away with group projects? Yes, you will have to work with groups of people in your normal working life. Group projects are just an unnecessary exercise in frustration. Nobody wants to work together, you try as best you can to separate out the tasks, someone slacks, someone else puts most of it together. Most of the time it's 3x the work for less outcome.
I stutter and stammer since childhood. I am 30 now... Should I consider not going to grad school as I will have to do lots of presentations ? Public speaking scares the electrons out of me...
Being able, as a human, to speak to other humans should be a required skill to graduate from public school. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.
Humans have a history about making assumptions then being wrong; about everything.
The number of kids today who have *anxiety* is either a direct result of phone addiction, or it's bullshit,
Or it just hasn't been diagnosed correctly
I think it's 100% fine to make children be able to speak to other children, in order to graduate high school.
And it used to be 100% fine to pull all the kids out of school to work the rich people's farms for a few days. Hazing used to be 100% fine in fraternities. Just because some ignorant motherfucker thinks things are 100% fine doesn't mean it really is.
Mental health issues are real and crippling... the earlier they can be identified and the child given mechanisms and strategies to cope/overcome/survive the better the outcome for the individual and society... in some cases the individual can be "cured" in others they will have some form of struggle for their entire life. Work with the child from the earliest age... this may require coordinated effort from PARENTS, teachers, counsellors, psychologists, doctors...
This also requires well funded, well resourced education, health an community support systems... good luck!
That said students fudging a genuine mental health issue because they feel a little nervous or uncomfortable is crap... but the solution is the same: start young, start small. A child shouldn't have got to high school without ever having being gently pushed out of their comfort zone in this regard. Again we come to a well funded, well resourced, well structured education system.
Given that Wikipedia states:
Millennials [...] the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid 1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years."
and
Generation Z [...] mid-1990s to mid-2000s as starting birth years.
Since the article mentions a 15yo, who would have been born in either 2002 or 2003 (depending on the birthday), you can clearly make the case that the person could fit either generation since there is clearly overlap.
I am reluctant to say that the GenZ kids will be be worse than the Millennials, but I am a slightly optimistic. Some of my grand-nieces and grand-nephews already seem to be much more motivated and realistic when compared to my nephews at the same ages. Only time will tell.
They should teach kids how to do this at a very early age, like in the first grade. Everyone does it all the way through school.
I'll increase society in general. Don't do your work, you get made fun of the next day.
So... my baby girl and I went to the store to buy her a new bed for her room. When the sales woman came up to us and started asking questions, my 14 year old daughter stiffened and froze. She panicked and started speaking sign language which she'd been learning from YouTube because a dainty little bubbly sales girl scared her so badly that she couldn't speak. When I explained to her "Sweety, you know I don't speak sign language" she started crying and couldn't move from her spot. I quickly explained to the sales clerk that she has a condition that makes it almost impossible for her to speak around strangers and asked her to bare with me for a minute. So my little girl ended up getting what I bought her instead of what she would have chosen... so... I'd call it a success since I probably saved close to $500 because of it :)
My daughter is in middle school and she IS SMART. She really is smart. She and I sit together factoring polynomials at Starbucks just for fun. She's really interested in science and physics specifically.
But she can't communicate.
We have now altered her entire school schedule to make sure she doesn't have any classes with anyone who she considers scary. No more Spanish class, no more gym class, no more music class. She has an iPhone she listens to death core and death metal on, she has a membership to a climbing place and she already speaks 2 languages and understands 4. So we're not concerned. Next year, she'll begin taking Mandarin.
So... why this long story... I always write books and also, it's necessary to understand this next part.
Now that she's in a class with people she's not particularly scared of, she can present a little better in front of class. She's still terrified of it, but she's able to communicate clearly... but with lots of bad jokes very few kids understand. She's getting better at it. In a few years, I'm hoping she can manage a lot better.
I am also Asperger's though that's a self-diagnosis. I actually speak publicly for weeks at a time... and I'm terrified by it... though no one would ever know it by looking. I have learned over time how to say just the right thing to make people choke on coffee or cookies. This week alone, I've made this happen three times. Kids really need to learn to speak... even if it's only around people who they are comfortable with. The only way to overcome the anxiety is to force it... and to be fair, the only way to force it is to make it more embarrassing not to speak than it would be to just suck it up and go with it.
Here's the solution: Stop sending them to school at all.
But seriously, kindergarten is a major point in a childs life, wrenched away from mommy, having a stranger order you around, other kids not respecting you. The world is not a fluffy place, despite the minority who try to make it so.