Slashdot Mirror

Back in March, there was an article in "Nature News"(the Nature News article is subscription, but a decent summary was posted by "The Free Republic") that the mineral Olivine when incorporated in a hydrothermal system may generate methane.

On Earth, the predominate source of methane is considered biological in origin, and the presence on Mars has been considered a possible indication of life on Mars. Recently, at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference at The Woodlands, near Houston, Texas, researcher Bethany Ehlmann (a PhD student at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island) proposed a geological process could be a potential source for methane. The article reports that under a hydrothermal process the mineral olivine can undergo conversion to serpentine, with methane and hydrogen as a by-product.

Not surprisingly, there are potential problems with the theory. Though the presence of the mineral could have been a source of methane, the surface mineral is ancient, 3.8BY. Too old to be the source of the methane currently detected. It may be though, that the conversion is active subsurface, and the generated methane reaches the surface via fissures, etc."

>Long and short of it: it is unproven.

Ummmm... nope. These types of systems are currently being used by US military aircraft currently operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. They regularly save the lives of our servicemen. They are quite well proven. For example:

http://popuplace.com/index.php?ind=media&op=file_view&iden=2391
http://www.topix.com/business/aerospace-defense/2007/06/laser-missile-jammer-to-protect-marine-corps-helicopters
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1844532/posts ... and many many more links... just Google "laser missile jammer". Yes, many of the links describe in-process contracts, but others of these systems are currently fielded on many aircraft. Two aircraft in particular are Air Force One and Marine One. It's about time for these technologies to filter down to the civilian world.

For example, when psychologist Angela Neal-Barnett in 1999 asked some focus-group students to identify acting-white behavior, they listed actions that ranged from speaking standard English and enrolling in an Advanced Placement or honors class to wearing clothes from the Gap or Abercrombie & Fitch (instead of Tommy Hilfiger or FUBU) and wearing shorts in winter!

As the slashdotter above me stated...

So there is all that bullshit talk about being men better than women because they tend to have a greater variance (hence having the best and worst results) and you just now disproved it because this one women solved a Millennium Prize?

Poor Marie Sklodowska Curie (who won two Nobel Prizes and was one of the few people to do it)... why didn't you use her for you counter-example? At least her work is already proved, unlike the work from this lady.

Statistical significance comes from the size of the studied population. Otherwise, based on this:
"A B-17 ball turret gunner, Magee had no choice but to jump out of a disabled, spinning-out-of-control bomber from about 22,000 feet.
A drop of more than four miles. Without a parachute. And Magee miraculously lived." (taken from here)
jumping of a comercial airplane in trouble would be less risky than waiting for it to try to emergency land (as we know people die on plane crashes and apparently free-falling people do not).

So, next time will you jump of the airplane? Thought so...

How about 22,000' and living.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1071076/posts

I believe that there is a problem with overheating. The combination of the armor, and poor insulation, and openings in the vehicles spell problems. Remember that the turrent is open, and there's usually someone manning it; this person rarely complains about the heat.

I didn't think that the AC would be much of a problem on the engines they use, but apparently they are.

Specifications: http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/hmmwv/

Perhaps it has to do with the engine's low horse power output? 160 at 3600 RPM, while an AC unit capable of properly cooling it would require ~8kW, or roughly 10 HP worth?

Dunno, that's from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioning . I know jack-taco about vehicles.

I also suspect that the heavier configurations with the AC going full-blast are probably out of spec in extremely hot climates; the vehicle has a lot of heat to dispose of, especially when running at weight capacity, and at high speed, and using water-cooled suits probably results in far more efficent cooling.

More thoughts: http://www.amgeneral.com/vehicles_hmmwv_models_a2_ components.php

Horsepower (@3,400 RPM): 160HP (120 KW)

8 kW, that's 6% of the optimal power output. This probably has a LOT to do with being a low HP high torque diesel engine. Anything they can do to get more efficiency out of the AC is a good thing.

Now, lets think about real-world power:
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1158825/posts
Just as important as the suspension is the Humvee's lack of muscle. Most of our Humvees here are M998A1s, sporting the GMC 6.2 Diesel engine. This is a diesel boosting an astounding 150 horsepower at 3,600 rpm. Of course, the normal operating range of the Humvee engine is between 1,500 to 2,300 rpm. Without looking at the engine's power curve, I'd suggest that would put the Humvee's usable horsepower somewhere around 90 horsepower.

10 hp, out of 90 hp? That's crippling.

I really mind the UN doing it.

Exactly. The UN is a corrupt body.

**Everyone needs to read this***
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/953471/posts

Some highlights:
"members of the UN Commission on Human Rights, for instance, include Zimbabwe, Algeria, Sudan, China and Vietnam. Brutal despotisms all"

I promise you that if the UN has control of DNS, they will start passing rules like, "nobody who criticizes the UN gets a domain name" Trust me, that's what will happen.

The article referenced in this Slashdot story is a complete lie, in my opinion. It is certainly possible to do what the article says. However, the cost in energy is greater than the amount of the energy returned.

The situation was the same 50 years ago. There is a huge amount of oil in the shale, but no way has been found to extract the huge amounts of oil efficiently.

The article refers to the "Synfuels debacle". Here's an article about Synfuels called The Great Energy Scam that discusses how scammers take advantage of the lack of technical knowledge of the public. Here's another article: Harsh glare on synfuels hitting home.

In my opinion, this is just another attempt to start a new scam. I think the word farce is too weak. Here's a little about how it works: THE 2005 ENERGY BILL, Helping Corporations, Hurting Western Colorado.

--
Bush lied, many died.

Looks the violent racist ccmay is making a retarded attempt at damage control.

In case anyone missed the wackos comment history:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/user-posts?id=27451

Just to illustrate what a fucking piece of garbage ccmay is, here is the full text of one of bin Laden's public speeches:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98 FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm

Who between the two sounds like a dimwitted, viloent wackjob?

If anyone needs any more evidence what a violent piece of racist garbage the above account is:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/user-posts?id=27451

Scary shit.

Within 24 hours, more than 10,000 copies of the "Star Wars" film had been swiped.

I guess that's why George only made 108.5 MILLION!!! Those guys that were trading those movies should have to have all their hard work be shared to the point where THEY only get 108.5 MILLION. That'll teach'm.

And the original poster Utah Eagle in the Free Repulic is completely without bias.

The Zero Emissions Treaty (read last half) is a starting point, being something that anyone actually emitting might follow.

Kyoto is, was, and will be a joke until the day it is disbanded (ten or twenty years hence, I forget exactly). Hardly anyone participating will actually have to reduce emissions at all, and will instead get credits (see: Russia). I'd sign on board any plan that dumped a free pile of money in my lap too!

Remi Van Haelst is to the Shroud as creationists are to evolution. He's largely a fraud IMHO. I mean, the guy's going on The Factor.

Not strictly true - the following is one of several true stories of WW2 bomber crew jumping without chutes and surviving.. in this case because he landed on a glass-roofed railwsy station and was slowed by successive levels of shattering glass

Man Survived 22,000-Foot Fall Out of Bomber

Also:
"The greatest fall without "riding" a piece of wreckage goes to Russian Lt. I.M. Chisov, who bailed out of his Ilyushin 4 bomber at 22,000 feet in January 1942, after being attacked by German fighters. His plan was to free-fall to 1,000 feet before opening his parachute, thus limiting his exposure to enemy fire while still in the air. Unfortunately he lost consciousness on the way down, and never opened his parachute. Like Vulovic, he landed in snow and survived, returning to duty three months later". - link

There was also a British gunner from a Lancaster bomber who fell from his aircraft during an attack and was saved by fir trees and deep snow.

That said, I still think this guy's a loon. Nobody ever volunteered to jump without a parachute before.

Conservative version: I think the Ivory Coast is the country in question.

Liberal version: I think the Ivory Coast is the country in question.

I talked with one of the people who process these tickets at one point

In DC (at least as of a few years ago), the people that processed the tickets work for a company (ie not the government itself) that gets a cut of every ticket. There is a strong incentive for no slack to be cut as a result.

And in fact, Lockheed Martin (a major manufacturer, who again, gets a cut of every ticket) alledgedly forbids cities from improving intersections.. Or some more about dubious light tactics.

you're right, im sorry, i dont know what i was thinking

I pulled this from one of the first google links I found.

"...customary practice is for the entire cabinet to resign at the end of the term and the POTUS then reappoints those who he wants to stay on."

Which democratic candidate is talking to their protestors? The ones who put them in a cage in Boston during the DNC?

...to the left. Voter fraud goes on in every election, by lots of people in both parties. And it's not like there's been a lack of stories about Democratic voter fraud. And pointing this out DOES NOT ENDORSE IT. All voter fraud should be punished. But it's a damn disgrace (and a big help to the Democratic party) to only point it out when it helps Republicans. Since Slashdot won't report it when Dem s do it, here's a recent sampler:

- Attempted Democratic Voter Fraud In Nashville
- Voter Fraud In South Dakota
- Colorado To Tackle Voter Fraud Fears
- Rendell will send monitors to elections offices
- ACORN Voter Registration Fraud Allegations Are Just the Tip of the Iceberg, Says Employment Policies Institute

And lets not forget the revelation that the Democratic Party plans a pre-emptive strike by alleging voter fraud in close races, even if there's absolutely no proof of it.

Slashdot; not fair, and damn sure not balanced.

There certainly are patterns all kinds.

I thoroughly agree with your observation. It's getting to be quite sickening.

The patterning I'm seeing is that whatsoever is hurtful to Bush becomes of merit in this forum. So, it's not: Bush's opponent is sooo much better than he, but: 'Anyone but Bush, even if he is a confirmed liar.' (What? You don't like that statement/generality? Go talk to the Swiftboat Vets about it.) It's foolishness the way Bush is handled on this site.

To bolster the above examples, the story doesn't use liar, that is purely editorial. I see lots of use of doubtful and disputed for discribing the information they made choices about. Let's also bring up the African "yellow-cake" report. Most democrats say that it was false information that the British supplied or that it did not happen. However this is not the case according to a British investigation into the matter.

the new voters project is a criminal fraud organization.

We're talking dual use capacity imports here kids. Whatever they could get their dirty little hands on with the sanctions in effect.

Please, allow me to emphasize: "The pesticide tetraethylpyrophosphate (TEPP) is as potent a choliesterase antagonist as Sarin. Estimates of the coetaneous LD50 (does at which half the victims die from a drop on the skin) for a 70 kg adult human (for some reason that's the standard) are 1700 mg for Sarin, and (extrapolating from the per kg LD50 in rats) 1680 mg for TEPP"

"The true purpose of schooling, according to Gatto, is to produce an easily manageable workforce to serve employers in a mass-production economy. Actual education is a secondary and even counterproductive result since educated people tend to be more difficult to control."

In Canada, the Teacher's Unions seem to be the only workforce for which the school system exists to serve. It might not actually be so bad, if some Employers could make productive use of the average High School graduate.

Unfortunately, educating anyone in any non-trivial topic is very demanding work. It is much easier to drug 5 to 15 percent of the learning population; especially the more active (and thus more exhausting) Boys

The Union backlash against anything that would allow the government to fund non-Union schools (vouchers, etc.) is astonishing. Even though home schooling recieves a fraction of the funding that a publicly-schooled child receives, public school enrollment is falling, with the balance of students going to private or home schooling. Even a huge financial penalty cannot keep students in public schools!

The only "revolution" that is needed, is the ability for parents to send their children to the school of their choice -- not the school chosen for them. The hemorrhaging of students -- and therefore funding -- from the public school system would be instantaneous and dramatic.

The best teachers would remain employed, would be compensated better (less waste on poor teachers and unnecessary infrastructure). Students with parents that don't give a shit would remain uneducated (not much can be done...). Parents who care wouldn't be forced to both A) pay for an education system through their taxes, and B) pay to educate their own children.

Ok, I don't really care much for Ted Turner or his comments here but it would be nice to see arguments that are based on Ted Turner today instead of Turner five to ten years ago. Here are some things you might have missed happening:

1. Ted Turner is not married to Jane Fonda. They got a divorce.

2. Turner does not own CNN, TBS, etc. except for the small amount of stock he might still own in AOL-Time Warner company. (RTFA)

3. Turner did not own CNN at the time of the AOL-Time Warner merger.

4. Turner WAS Vice Chairman of Time Warner (who bought CNN) when the AOL-Time Warner merger happened. (According to previous link, he opposed the merger.)

Not true - plenty of jobs where people on the ground are working with kit worth more than that. Easy for a forklift or truck driver to cause a lot of damage when moving stuff around.

Or say this incident - blamed on technicians...

Or say you were an air-traffic-controller... - how big a mistake do you want to make.

The discussion is about how Ray Bradbury was upset at Michael Moore for ripping off his title and then he asked for an apology from Moore. Instead, he got ridicule and personal attacks by Moore supporters. Extremists on both the right and left are very intolerant of free speech by the other side. Sure, there are narrow minded conservatives that would like to lock up all liberals. At the same time, conservative viewpoints have been stifled at "peace rallies" in Berkeley, CA. McCarthyist tactics of smearing your opponent and vilifying them by any means possible are nothing new, and are regularly used by intolerant people on all sides of the political spectrum.

Actually, looking a bit further, other accounts by people who claim to have read it say its about a 60s radical, Saul Alinsky, who apparently advocated lying as a path to power (never heard of him before, myself, so don't quote me on that) ... see here and here. To be fair, that's a more disturbing thesis for a former First Lady and current Senator to have written. But it was 1969 and she was young; revolution was in the air. Give her a break!

the interesting thing to me is, that while caffeine is probably the worlds most widely used drug, it's effects (on spiders, albeit) actually seem to be more detramental than that of even marjuanna.
Yes, I know this is a spider and not a human; but it's still some food for thought....
Fry: Fancy cigar why don't you smoke it already? Puff puff go go go go go!

(ripped from somewhere else)

Some say North Korea has already been developing a biological weapon to attack genetic structures in white people. The scientist working on it has mysteriously disappeared. Details here.

I'm curious as to why they didn't simply use two images (differing slightly of course) side by side, you then go crosseyed (or let your eyes defocus, whichever method is set up), and you would be able to see the 3d image complete with textures etc.

Didn't we just set a bunch of foreign nationals free because they were wrongly imprisoned? I think they also had some young children imprisoned. This report indicates 88 of the 100 people transfered out of Getmo were released to be freed (the other 12 remaining in detention in their home nations).

It would be one thing if these were prisoners of war being held until the war ended, as per the Geneva Convention, but this is an ongoing 'war against terror' (except Iraq, the terrorists followed us there) basically giving Bush the ability to hold these people indefinitely. Besides 'Mission Accomplished' has already been declared in Iraq and there are plenty of Iraqis in the camps.

Now, it would be one thing if there was any accuracy at all in the determination that the detained people are terrorists or terrorist supporting individuals. And noone is asking to 'open the floodgates' and let em all run free and noone would be complaining if all of these people were dangerous. But we've already seen plenty of cases where people were improperly detained and without any representation at all bad things happen to good people... 88 of them so far and counting.

>Fact: The stretch of the 401 between Windsor and Chatham was known as "Death Alley" just a few short years ago. The entire length of the 401 is currently in the process of being upgraded over the next few years, largely as a result of "Death Alley".

Fact: That section of highway was developed in 1930, before it was Highway 401. Also fact: Few cars could reach 100 km/h in that era.

I'm talking about the most used part of the 401, the MacDonald-Cartier Freeway part, not the ancient Highway 98 stretch. That part clearly needs fixing, but is detritus from old years, not part of the new (and safe at high speeds) 401.

>Based on this fact, I find your assertion that this road was designed for speeds over 140 km/h to be quite unlikely to say the least.

Then, perhaps you aren't a road designer? I'm not either, but for a road designer to create a road safe at only 87% of the intended speed limit is definitely illegal, and to create a road not safe at 121% of the intended speed limit is clearly negligent.

>Furthermore, with the way a lot of people drive these days, more enforcement is sorely needed. If budgets don't allow for more policing, then photo radar suits me fine.

So, it's okay to have a driver driving poorly for over 2 weeks without them even knowing they are, and, more importantly, to only assess a monetary fine and no record, points, endorsements, or loss of license no matter how poorly they are driving (even if they are doing 320 km/h)? Because that's how photoradar works. It won't assess points, and it is unlikely insurance will even find out about a ticket. In other words, if you are monied, it's a license to speed, since the cops won't be patrolling, and there's a maximum speed the cameras can be used to catch, also.

>Don't like it? Don't speed.

Did you know that speeding is one of the very least likely ways to cause severe property damage and injury? You can check it out in the Ontario safety report.

The most dangerous, IMHO, action a driver can do is improper lane changes. Having spoken with members of the trucking industry (nice having a shop on a popular trucking route! :-) I can tell you that is the singlemost dangerous thing they encounter on the roads, apart from danger number 2: People who enter a 100 km/h highway at 80 km/h. You'll also find Young Drivers and many other safe driving organizations agree: A small amount of speeding is only a tiny factor in poor driving.

Lastly, the police encourage people on the 401 to do faster than the speed limit. They have ticketed people doing 100 km/h on that highway before, and have explained in the October wheels of the Toronto Star that they'll be doing it again if you are caught doing under 110 km/h in the fast lane.

Overall, it is far more dangerous to lane change without acceleration (cutting people off) and extremely dangerous to slow an entire highway down due to nerves.

So, without the support of the police, driving associations, and history on your side, *WHY* do you feel that speeding on the 401 is a bad idea? It seems that you are the only person in Canada with that feeling. 85% of drivers on the 401 drive at over 110 km/h, and that's the entire 401, not just "Death Alley".

Basically, when even the police disagree with you, you're probably going to be found wrong (and ticketed).

Philips is watching us, man.

Some people think you're right. Does anyone remember this incident? If I remember correctly he believed that the black bands displayed when watching widescreen movies in 4:3 aspect ratio were being used to send hidden messages.

Arafat beat them to it.

Are you now or ever have been a member of a student organization -- Wall Street Journal | May 29, 2003
That's why people in this rural university town were so surprised on Feb. 26, when Federal Bureau of Investigation agents arrived before dawn in unmarked vehicles at Mr. Hussayen's home to arrest him. The agents rousted him from bed and took him away in handcuffs. Over the next two days, most members of the campus MSA, which Mr. Hussayen formerly headed, were interrogated about their immigration status, extracurricular activities and views of the U.S...

Homeland Defense is protecting you by getting rid of *dangerous* women and children
The wife [..] says she'll voluntarily leave the United States within 120 days. The decision by Maha Al-Hussayen put an end to the government's attempts to deport her and her children. Al-Hussayen's attorney says she made the decision after she was threatened with jail and several character witnesses became too intimidated to testify on her behalf. She must leave by March 6th.

This guy had a *glowing* GPA in grad school here and here
Sami Omar Al-Hussayen, a Saudi national working on his computer science doctoral degree, quietly moved his student office from the Computer Science Department into the school's engineering isotope lab, apparently without his adviser's knowledge, according to the documents.
Al-Hussayen moved into the engineering lab while he was under surveillance by agents assigned to the Inland Northwest Joint Terrorism Task Force, the documents say. Surveillance teams determined Al-Hussayen primarily used the engineering isotope lab after hours.

And 4 other people you DIDN'T hear about

...Estimates of the total number of persons killed in eight military offensives against the Kurds at that time vary between 50,000 and 100,000, but may be as high as 180,000.

In 2001, Amnesty International emphasized that the Iraqi Administration had the world's worst record regarding persons who had disappeared and remain unaccounted for. There were more than 16,000 documented cases of such disappearances conveyed to the United Nations in 1994 and 1995 alone.

Ok, granted that's from the U.S. state department, but they are getting information from Amnesty international (for the second part).

And from here:

...BBC correspondent Barbara Plett says the remains of up to 3,000 people had been found so far, and the total uncovered could be as many as 15,000. ...

Human rights groups believe that up to 200,000 people may be buried in sites across the country.

And another...


BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi and U.S. rights investigators said on Saturday they suspected Iraq had up to 260 mass graves containing the bodies of at least 300,000 people murdered by the former regime of Saddam Hussein.


I also read the beginning of the article you posted... but even in the U.S. there are restrictions on free speech that encourages violence against others. You can't stand on a street corner rallying people to beat police officers. The press that was invaded in Iraq was doing just that - it wasn't simple dissent. Also, since Al-Jazeera is not an Iraqi news outlet, those rules don't apply....

The new law bans incitement of violence against American troops or against any religious, ethnic, or gender group, and prohibits any publication that promotes a return of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath Party.

Frankly, I'm not seeing the problem with that. It's interesting how much that article leaves out about publications denouncing the interim government and the U.S. presence...

The problem is that you are either a neoconservative who is in favour of imperialism (unlikely), or that you are a naive "liberal" (likely).

Guessed wrong... I am a conservative, to be sure, but I don't necessarily believe in imperialism as much as i believe in free will. For example, I disagree with socialism as a general rule, but there are examples where socialism might be a good thing - like in Iraq, where all the citizens should benefit from the oil revenue (I believe Qatar has a similar situation). There are examples where it works. I do believe any nation can be democratic if it wants to... but it doesn't necessarily have to be based on U.S. representative democracies.

Name ONE country that USA has meddled with since WWII, that ended up democratic or free.

But see, now you're placing restrictions on what I can use as an example. The fact is that it can be done - just because it hasn't been done in over fifty years doesn't mean it's still not possible. The difference with Japan, though, is that they were not allowed anything but a token military. We took care of them for decades so that a bloody military coup couldn't happen, and so that they couldn't aggress against anyone else. All the while they were free to do what they wanted within that context.

Frankly, I personally believe we should do the same in Iraq. Not only that, but we got some nicely located military bases out of it. Sadly, that's what will

See it here

Wouldn't that make it pretty easy getting a verified address?

I don't have a very strong opinion about how the last day at the Waco compound should have been handled. However, being a Texan, I have tons of opinions about how it should have been handled leading up to the disaster on the final day.

I didn't post any links regarding Clarke's involvement, because I thought it would be common knowledge by anyone who's read up on him. He was the commandant at Ft. Hood at the time, and authorized use of military vehicles and personnel for use by the ATF, which is a violation of federal law. You can find information here, here, or if you prefer threads, here, or if you would rather trust conglomerate media, you're on your own, as I don't hit any of those sites. You could probably google if you like though.

About how Waco was handled in the first place though...

The ATF went to Waco to serve an arrest warrant, although no ATF agent has ever been able to provide who actually had the warrant in hand at trial or to any congressional committee. Were the 5 family dogs shot before or after attempting to show someone this warrant? How would helicoptors aid in facilitating the peaceful service of a search warrant? And why would you need 76 agents if you're peacefully serving a warrant? Usually (here in Texas) Constables or Marshalls serve warrants, why the ATF? If they weren't planning on peacefully serving the warrant, where's the evidence that Koresh had arms inside (he did, but no evidence was ever provided during inquiries or trials by the ATF, which would have been required to secure the warrant)? Why did they open fire as soon as Koresh opened the door while waving his empty hands and saying "Wait, let's talk, there are women and children in here"?

Yes, Koresh was a loony, but there was an agenda in place for dealing with him already, and it included tanks, APCs, and personnel from Ft. Hood. If you're in charge of a military base, nothing leaves it without your consent. And in my mind, that makes Wesley Clarke a bad person.

I don't have a very strong opinion about how the last day at the Waco compound should have been handled. However, being a Texan, I have tons of opinions about how it should have been handled leading up to the disaster on the final day.

I didn't post any links regarding Clarke's involvement, because I thought it would be common knowledge by anyone who's read up on him. He was the commandant at Ft. Hood at the time, and authorized use of military vehicles and personnel for use by the ATF, which is a violation of federal law. You can find information here, here, or if you prefer threads, here, or if you would rather trust conglomerate media, you're on your own, as I don't hit any of those sites. You could probably google if you like though.

About how Waco was handled in the first place though...

The ATF went to Waco to serve an arrest warrant, although no ATF agent has ever been able to provide who actually had the warrant in hand at trial or to any congressional committee. Were the 5 family dogs shot before or after attempting to show someone this warrant? How would helicoptors aid in facilitating the peaceful service of a search warrant? And why would you need 76 agents if you're peacefully serving a warrant? Usually (here in Texas) Constables or Marshalls serve warrants, why the ATF? If they weren't planning on peacefully serving the warrant, where's the evidence that Koresh had arms inside (he did, but no evidence was ever provided during inquiries or trials by the ATF, which would have been required to secure the warrant)? Why did they open fire as soon as Koresh opened the door while waving his empty hands and saying "Wait, let's talk, there are women and children in here"?

Yes, Koresh was a loony, but there was an agenda in place for dealing with him already, and it included tanks, APCs, and personnel from Ft. Hood. If you're in charge of a military base, nothing leaves it without your consent. And in my mind, that makes Wesley Clarke a bad person.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/968577/posts
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index.php?s=2 d3b7fbf49b6df44390aa6459ab46c88&showtopic=3074
http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/qod/030929.shtml
http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/eminent_do main.htm
http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff672 91.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&q=walmart+alabama+eminent+domain&btnG=Googl e+Search

Oh Gawd, will the ignorance never end? Read this please:

"The Great Jobs Machine" (a NYTimes article w/ comments)

I've seen the NYT change the title of an article or rework a paragraph or two a few days later... usually it significantly
alters the spin of the article.

The most egregious case I've seen to date is msnbc changing the entire article completely. This article, entitled "U.N. urges inspectors return to Iraq" is dated Oct. 13, and completely replaced this article, entitled "Rumsfeld acknowledges intelligence may have been bad", dated Oct. 2. Now it could be something to do with how they number their articles, but given it's Nov. 11 now (a month after oct. 13) and the article has not been changed and that the replacement article was 11 days after the article it was replacing, I don't think so. Unfortunately since the time I took note of this (about a week or so ago), google has recached the page, thus destroying its record of the old article. Also, wayback machine didn't get it either... the only record I can find now that google has been recached is a reprint on this blog . Which of course probably violates msnbc's copyright to boot.

I dunno...perhaps someone needs to set up something to archive major news sources more frequently than wayback and check for *changes* ... this way we can watchdog news angencies which are making up spin on the fly.

It's crazy... print doesn't have this problem.... once it's out, it's out, but on the 'net we seem to be able to have revisionist history, soviet style.

clicky clicky!

FreePublic.com has a copy as well check here: http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1016490/posts

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1016490/posts#g gviewer-offsite-nav-8991256