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Ok, when I stopped laughing, I looked and found a site that I ran into over a year ago, debunking, scientifically, the conspiracy theory that a missle and not an aircraft hit the Pentagon.

Here is the link:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html

Through publically available information, diagrams, photos of debris, etc., this myth is pretty thoroughly debunked.

Think about it, an aircraft is just a big missle with wings. (and NO warhead) The wings are not as structurally rigid as the body, and will shear off the body at the slightest collision with any outside object. What makes you think the wings would have made big gaping holes in a reinforced concrete structure? The hole is around 16 x 20 ft. just a bit bigger than the body of the aircraft, and slices shrough the Pentagon into some of the inner rings, just as you would expect. There is no huge crater of interior damage that one would expect if a missle with an explosive warhead had struck instead. Plus, the shock wave from the explosive warhead would have created waves of damage far from the point of explosion, something else that didn't happen.

Plus there are too many witnesses to the incoming aircraft to dismiss.

You have a point to an extent since the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is an enabling act. Though I feel I need to elaborate on a couple of your points:

1. concentration camps: They have been building them for a long time. While they are increasing the number of them regularly, they already have a lot.

3. W. will not stay in power. He is a puppet (It is stupid to argue otherwise. Even if you support him and what he does, it wood be foolish to not think that he is a puppet of others controlling his "good" actions.).

4. We will not declare war on Mexico. We will join them and Canada in an "American Union", like the EU.

5. This is covered by #4.

The US isn't going to become a dictatorship in 8 years, in 2008 the ruling party is going to lose massively at the polls.

I would love to believe you. Except that a large percentage of the votes are counted by two companies, Diebold and ESS, and two brothers are the VP of one and President of the other.

So if the major party is counting the polls, what's gonna happen? They learned their lesson from the previously-attempted dictatorships; no more 100% like Saddam, and no more close calls that might cause voter concern. The polls will come in between 60/40 and 70/30.

I wish I was writing fiction.

You also always see:

Engine parts
Landing gear
Part of the wing

Just because you don't recognize it, doesn't mean those of us trained in photo analysis don't.

An excellent page debunking the conspiracy theorists: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html

There's your pictures, explanations, and evidence. Now you'll make a moronic excuse as to why you're not satisfied, but frankly, no one gives a fuck.

"What is my supposed agenda?"

To look like an idiot, I suspect. Well done with that by the way.

And yet, no plane debris outside.

Actually, there was lots of plane debris outside. How weak is your conspiracy theory when you have to blatantly lie?

Right under your nose, perhaps?

Or this one...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html

or somehow account for approximately 60 tons of missing aircraft debris at the Pentagon.

Huh?

Let's take a step back for a moment:

1. There were dozens upon dozens of eyewitness reports who say that a commercial jetliner was what crashed into the Pentagon. These were all just ordinary people, going about their business in the DC area, some affiliated with government and/or miltary, some not. Of the witnesses who say it "sounded" like a missile (note the word "sounded"): how is that even relevant? I ask because of the obvious: how many of these people even know what a missile "sounds" like? How many people have heard a commercial jetliner just hundreds of feet (and at some point, tens of feet) off the ground travelling at ~400-500mph? And to repeat, many, many, many people reported directly seeing an American Airlines commercial jetliner.

2. All of the "conspiracy" reports talk about how "no wreckage" was found at the scene. That is patently false. There was TONS of Boeing 757 wreckage recovered, in total, from the Pentagon. Ironically, here are even large pieces of 757 wreckage visible in the photos used to try to "prove" there was no wreckage! Not to mention that the air disaster photos picked for the video were no doubt picked because there WAS wreckage.

3. Remains 184 of 189 of the victims aboard flight 77 were identified AT THE SCENE from DNA: http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/6_48/nationa l_news/12279-1.html

4. The ONLY place I've EVER seen any claims about supposed video from the Sheraton, gas stations, etc., is in the internet flash video. I have seen no reference or proof ANYWHERE else, from ANY source, that videos have supposedly been confiscated "minutes" later by the FBI.

5. Also, stop and think about this: where was the (visible) "wreckage" from the WTC towers? Is the only reason we even believe that commercial planes crashed into the towers is because we were able to see it with our own eyes? And even that isn't enough for the conspiracy theorists: they still claim that the WTC towers were *rigged with explosives*, such that they could be made to fall AFTER jetliners rammed into the buildings!

For a detailed analysis, see:

Detailed analysis of building, crash, and events:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg 1

Article debunking the conspiracy story:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/11 0804factsstraight.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen06.html

Purdue University also did a simulation, with associated report, that approximates what happened to flight 77 that day:

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/popescu/p entagonVis_files/pentagonVis2003.mpg
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/popescu/p entagonVis_files/paper_422.pdf

And finally, you might be interested in a test done years ago at Sandia National Laboratory, in which an F-4 was crashed into a concrete wall. Not a 757 and not the Pentagon, but I'd implore you to find any recognizable "wreckage":

http://www.sandia.gov/media/mov_mpg/f_4crash_test_ slow.mpg

or somehow account for approximately 60 tons of missing aircraft debris at the Pentagon.

Huh?

Let's take a step back for a moment:

1. There were dozens upon dozens of eyewitness reports who say that a commercial jetliner was what crashed into the Pentagon. These were all just ordinary people, going about their business in the DC area, some affiliated with government and/or miltary, some not. Of the witnesses who say it "sounded" like a missile (note the word "sounded"): how is that even relevant? I ask because of the obvious: how many of these people even know what a missile "sounds" like? How many people have heard a commercial jetliner just hundreds of feet (and at some point, tens of feet) off the ground travelling at ~400-500mph? And to repeat, many, many, many people reported directly seeing an American Airlines commercial jetliner.

2. All of the "conspiracy" reports talk about how "no wreckage" was found at the scene. That is patently false. There was TONS of Boeing 757 wreckage recovered, in total, from the Pentagon. Ironically, here are even large pieces of 757 wreckage visible in the photos used to try to "prove" there was no wreckage! Not to mention that the air disaster photos picked for the video were no doubt picked because there WAS wreckage.

3. Remains 184 of 189 of the victims aboard flight 77 were identified AT THE SCENE from DNA: http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/stripe/6_48/nationa l_news/12279-1.html

4. The ONLY place I've EVER seen any claims about supposed video from the Sheraton, gas stations, etc., is in the internet flash video. I have seen no reference or proof ANYWHERE else, from ANY source, that videos have supposedly been confiscated "minutes" later by the FBI.

5. Also, stop and think about this: where was the (visible) "wreckage" from the WTC towers? Is the only reason we even believe that commercial planes crashed into the towers is because we were able to see it with our own eyes? And even that isn't enough for the conspiracy theorists: they still claim that the WTC towers were *rigged with explosives*, such that they could be made to fall AFTER jetliners rammed into the buildings!

For a detailed analysis, see:

Detailed analysis of building, crash, and events:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_7 57_plane_evidence.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg 1

Article debunking the conspiracy story:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/11 0804factsstraight.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen06.html

Purdue University also did a simulation, with associated report, that approximates what happened to flight 77 that day:

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/popescu/p entagonVis_files/pentagonVis2003.mpg
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/projects/popescu/p entagonVis_files/paper_422.pdf

And finally, you might be interested in a test done years ago at Sandia National Laboratory, in which an F-4 was crashed into a concrete wall. Not a 757 and not the Pentagon, but I'd implore you to find any recognizable "wreckage":

http://www.sandia.gov/media/mov_mpg/f_4crash_test_ slow.mpg

IEDs have little to no effect on an armored tank

Not really true. True for the REALLY unsophisticated IEDs, but they have IEDs that nothing we have can defeat. DoD is urgently working on this now, but the amount of high explosives (and shape charges) they are using in close proximity even an M1A1 cannot withstand.

example
example
example

From the TV specials that I've seen about this, it looks like area 51 was an R&D facility for rockets, planes, and other weapons. Unfortunatley, that requires a lot of toxic chemicals. Also, the workers would burn a lot of the failed projects so that they wouldn't be discovered. Like many areas of the US, one of the biggest polluters is the US Government.

...even a single picture of wreckage from a passenger plane being brought out of the pentagon.

Here is more than a single picture

It also includes a really grainy picture of what could be a 757. The picture doesn't show it is a plane, it only shows that it could be one, contrary to conspiracy theorists claims that its too small.

On the subject of conspiracy theories, another good one is the theory that the "no plane at the pentagon" and the "pods on planes in NYC" are actually on government controlled websites to descredit the more moderate theories. You'll notice that whenever anybody asks a question like "Why did the president say that he saw footage of the first WTC impact on the school television before entering the classroom, when in fact there was no television and that footage was not discovered and aired until long after" or "Why were escorts not ordered when contact was lost with the pilots, as is standard practice as can be seen in other instances where contact was lost? Was an order issued to disregard procedure? Was it a simple mistake?", or "Why was it stated that the intercepting pilots were not authorized to shoot down, and that only the VP or president can issue the order, when in fact standard orders authorize pilots to shoot down hijacked planes that may pose a threat at their discression or the discression of their superiors?", that instead of answering the questions, the person giving the press conference, or giving the interview, or whatever, will simple say "Hahahaha, you're one of those conspiracy theorists who thinks there were no planes, that the planes were crashed into the ocean and then missiles hit the pentagon!" and then everybody laughs and there is no answer. This evasion is what gives this theory its momentum.

I have seen claims that several of these conspiracy websites that say there were no planes, have domains registered to PR companies employed by the Whitehouse and/or the Republican party. They then say that shortly after this was noticed all of the DNS entry was blanked (Which is illegal isn't it?) This sounds really solid until you realise how easy it is to fake a screenshot of the DNS entry before it was Orwellised. I could quite easily post a link to a conspiracy website that doesn't exsist, with a claim that the DNS entry is registered to an employee of some subsidiary of Manchurian Global or whoever, and lists their work phone#, easily verifiable using their employee list on their own website. Then a few hours later when people say that's not true, and the website doesn't exist, and there is no such domain, I'd say "God damnit, you didn't look fast enough, it was there, they must have agent on /. who saw their cover blown and deleted the DNS entry." Then maybe I'd get a few sockpuppet accounts and/or AC posting to say "Yeah, I saw it right before Homeland Security took it down!" Boom, instant proof! Why would I lie, and why would these other people back me up? Lesson: Be very hesitant to accept a claim that some website said something, then the government erased it, no matter how many "different" people back the OP up. I have, however, seen proof via google cash that a news website ran an article that they then deleted, so its not all faked ;)

At any rate, there are many explanations for why the tapes havn't been made public.

1. There was no plane, and thus, no footage to release. Also the 80+ eye witnesses were paid off/threatened by the government to say they saw a plane. Also the police and fire departments were paid off to claim to have seen plane wreckage. Also all the pictures they took were faked using prop wreckage brought in for the purpose. (I know you didn't claim any of this, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but all of these things are required in order to fit the evidence with the theory.)
2. The government crea

...on the road to America becoming a repeat of Nazi Germany. The judicial system has been almost entirely dismantled already. Habeas corpus is gone, and Bush has been claiming that as Fuhrer in Chief he doesn't need to listen to either the courts or the representative bodies. That's why you get things like this happening...all the good Germans imitating Bush's attitude down the chain.

The only thing he really needs to do now is implement Rex 87, and you're all officially fucked. Even if that poor kid does get locked up and sodomised and/or waterboarded for 20 years, just think of it as him going in early.

It'll take a while, cos there are so many of you...but Bush'll get around to all of you, in time.

At some time in early November of 2000, someone showed up in a few Internet discussion boards calling themselves Timetravel_0. Over time, they then laid claim to the real name, John Titor, a time traveler from the year 2036. From there, the name John Titor will forever be embedded in the folklore of both alternative-topic boards like ATS, and the Internet as a whole.

As many will recall, one of the first things Titor did was post pictures of his time machine and his operations manual. As the days, weeks, and months went by, people began questioning Titor about his presence "in our timeline", the seeming impossibility of the physics of time travel and his thoughts about the issues of our time. He also posted on other Internet discussion boards including the old Art Bell site. In his posts John Titor often entertained, enraged, frightened and belittled those who engaged him in mostly one-sided conversation.

On March 24, 2001, John Titor announced he would be leaving our time and returning to 2036. After that, he was never heard from again. Speculation and investigation about who John Titor was and why he was online (curiously focusing his efforts on conspiracy community discussion boards) continues to this day.

Although many find it easy to dismiss all this as either science fiction or an elaborate extended hoax, there are those who still read his information and agree that there is something very troubling about John Titor and what he had to say. I was present during many of his postings and at the time, didn't pay much attention, immediately dismissing it as just another Internet hoax. However, as time goes by, many point to current-day details that seem to corroborate Titor's stories, and even others feel his exact predictions have come to pass.

Here is one of the questions posed to him in 2001:
Q: "..but how did you manage to overcome the problem of gathering sufficient power to artificially create a micro-singularity in such a short time (sometime prior to 2036))"

A: The machine with the energy to do it will come on-line very soon. The method for doing it has already been mostly perfected in the Z machine at the National lab in New Mexico.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/the_john_titor _project.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

Go there if you want stuff like that.

HAARP US Patent 4,686,605
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4,686,605.WKU.&OS=PN/4,686,605&RS =PN/4,686,605

HAARP Invertor's military ties
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread15366/pg 1

Military research report (1996): Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025
https://research.maxwell.af.mil/papers/ay1996/spac ecast/vol3ch15.pdf

...I've been seeing this kind of thing popping up all over the Web in the last week or so, with one of the main proponents apparently being this guy, a particularly sophisticated crackpot who I remember having read about a few years back.

The online kook population seem to be going into a feeding frenzy with regards to Katrina, even moreso than usual. FEMA's recent screwups in New Orleans are also apparently being seen by the Lone Gunmen demographic as validation of the schizoid claims they've been making over the past 15 years, namely that FEMA have been busily carpeting the US with concentration camps, presumably for a time when Shrub will grow tired of all the criticism he's been receiving, throw some giant switch, and have said critics (and most of the rest of the population along with them, apparently) rounded up.

We can only hope they're wrong. ;-)

Our government can't possibly control the weather!

It's seriously time to wake up, people!

We've been working on the Katrina missing persons wiki, PeopleFinder and this has allowed us to see some emails from people right in the red zone. There are some people from religious organizations looking to help those kept in the donated church cabin complexes, and seeing that its a goddamn FEMA detainee camp. These people are going to be treated like cattle, like people were in WW2, in Korea, in Vietnam.... My guess is we will not see many of them ever again, if any. For one person's experience, you can go here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html

Coral Cache: http://www.abovetopsecret.com.nyud.net:8090/forum/ fema.html

So, it comes as no surprise to me whatsoever that they are trying to keep all communications locked down. Nevermind the fack that FEMA=[pig-fucker]Cheney.

or haven't you read about FEMA detainment centers for evacuees?

more New Orleans nightmares...

Jack Shulman and American Computer Co. of the 90's.
Remember that? He claimed to be making chips from crashed UFO technology..

http://www.compamerica.com/">http://web.archive.or g/web/19970106064603/http://www.compamerica.com/

(above link doesn't display properly, copy & paste it into your broswer --> http://web.archive.org/web/19970106064603/http://w ww.compamerica.com )

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/acc.html

and here's his website where he still claims outrageous bullshit..
http://compamerica.com/about_us.htm

Anyone ever come up with what the Aurora was powered by?

I'd love to see a pulsed-fusion plane...

...mit laser cannons!

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/k opp/apjemp.html

http://www.physics.northwestern.edu/classes/2001Fa ll/Phyx135-2/19/emp.htm

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html

...to the realization of the civil war. It is the working class vs. the non working class, and as our time traveling friend John Titor teaches us. He told us this war will start between 2004-2005 and we won't fully realize it until 2008. None of it will come as a suprise, it will be organized police establishments vs. rednecks with automatic shotguns. It will happen slowly in phases. People in rural areas will be marked as terrorists, and seen as a threat to the new, totalitarian government. Everything will be so gradual, we will never even notice it. Thanks to Russia, they will step in and speak for the non working class, and put an end to it. In 2036 our generator will be seen as the generation who had it all and pissed it away. We will be seen as lazy as we watched our government take away our rights, and our country. Things like this raid will become more and more common as time passes, and noone will think a thing about it. Titor said since he told us these things, we have a chance of stopping the civil war, but he thinks we won't. Three billion people will die, and the world is gonna have to start from scratch.

... our time traveling friend John Titor said there won't be Olympics after 2004 (dunno if this counts for the '06 winter olympics or not) due to too much conflict over the entire thing. It isn't until 2036 until they try and start it all back up again. I can't wait for this civil war to start, I'm gonna quit my job and head to the hills. I've learned to embrace his prophecy and understand the true meaning of life thanks to Titor.

For those who don't know about John Titor


P.S. Anyone know where I can find that video of him traveling time in his car when he goes BACK TO THE FUTURE?

There are quite a few documented holding sites around the US. Their official purpose remains unclear, but they are capable of holding large quantities of people.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html

Many of the web sites that document these places are prone to predetermined answers that feel over the top, but our government is prepared to place large quantities of people in long term lockup if need be. Currently, they are probably focused on "if a large war happens, where do we keep everyone that we capture?", but with the current connections between corporations and government people who are "dissidents" could easily become cheap labor.

There's a good description of the unique chemistry of carbon, and the reasons why silicon-based life is unlikely here

There will still be his legagy of pretty cool photos though :)

A power outage has taken down wikipedia! as a community we must carry the torch!

Found It!

Space forces support involves launching satellites and other high-value payloads into space using a variety of expendable launch vehicles and operating those satellites once in the medium of space.

Space control ensures friendly use of space through the conduct of counterspace operations encompassing surveillance, negation and protection.

Force enhancement provides weather, communications, intelligence, missile warning and navigation. Force enhancement is support to the warfighter.

Force application involves maintaining and operating a rapid response land-based ICBM force as the Air Force's only on-alert strategic deterrent.

More info here.

Bin Laden tells you how to vote. You hear, OSAMA IS BACK, doing Bush another favor, isn't he kind? Arafat nearly dead, Fidel Castro resigned, Osama Bin Laden back, eeeevil "terrorists" broadcasting their horror messages now in English so even the last undecided voter can understand that only Bush will protect them from the very Hell breaking loose. The terrorists come out of their hole! Fear man, tremble in fear, duct tape your windows, hand over all your liberties, let us draft you first born sons, trust us and don't speak anything. Osama is back.

Vote Halliburton errr I mean

Vote Bush!

And hope Bush doesn't need another distraction when the votes are recounted again. Rockefeller Plaza's already levelled, the next is worse.

Oh I forgot, 50 story tall glass+steel towers don't collapse anymore when subjected to intense fires for 17 hours or more. A tower in Caracas, Venezuela burned from an electrical failure. 17 hours uncombated over 14 stories. Sprinkler system failed. Heavy winds from the sea. Still standing. Engineers say it's safe. It's gonna be renovated and used again. What does this tell us? See discussion here

news article here Google for more, but most articles are identical, though. They don't want you to read details. The fact alone endanders that great ancestor of modern fascism.

Don't tell me "WTC was hit by planes with megatons of fuel-air explosives aboard so it can't be compared!!!11!" - The WTC consisted of 7 buildings, 2 of them were struck by airplanes, the rest collapsed "on fire alone" if you believe the spooks.

Believe your government! Believe your homeland security! Duct tape your windows! Mouth, eyes and ears, too, while your at it.

1. Members were caught trading in sexual slaves. It was reported on by many mainstream media outlets, including newspapers and major networks. Go to http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8& q=united+nations&btnG=Search+News for a pretty good compilation of the various articles reporting on these sandals. 2. Kurt Waldheim was elected Secretary-General of the UN, despite the fact that he was a known war criminal (A Nazi Lieutenant). http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/warcrime.html and http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1995/191/191p21.h tm 3. A good chunk of our natinal parks have been GIVEN to the UN as collateral if we default on our debts. They intend to give them more. If you examine a map of what percentage of the U.S. the U.N. wants to get its hands on within 10 years, it takes up over somewhere in the area of 90%. Check out http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread45831/pg 1 and http://www.store.yahoo.com/infowars-shop/amdesbyde s.html You can also download the video on emule ed2k:7Cfile7CAmerica20Destroyed20By20Design20Plz20 Shareavi7C7306690567C93E0EE8D68CBE6221E90D20284B4A 9867ChTWFQ3T6MQZLW2BHYJ2TIZYY6J2G2SX5Q7C The author has given his permission for people to share this movie on the internet. There are plenty of other reasons to oppose any expansion of the UN's influence in America, but I'm tired and looking for refernces to back my claims has become a chore. Investigate and enjoy.

Could those be fishing fleets, lighting up the ocean to lure fish (squid, shrimp?) to the surface?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread68549/pg 1

Why the American people have put up with Area 51 for so long without any sort of culpability being required of their government, I do not know.

Simple, regardless of whatever else has gone on there; they have developed some really cool technology that has kept our country safe and free.

The U2, SR-71, F-117A and B2 were all flown at Area 51 during tests. Who knows what other cool shit is out there. Guess we'll find out in 40 years.

LK

Oh great, so these are the guys that will be hauling us all off to one of the 600 US-government concentration camps: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html thats a happy thought

• Condon Report
• project blue Book
• More Blue Book
• Area 51 weather
• Alien Fish
• Deformed skulls

> "It has been a long standing view of mine that Microsoft is to U.S. citizens, what the U.S. government is to the world."

Mabe thats because Microsoft is running the U.S. Government.

Sadly, no.

Check out this article that links the Transit of Venus to the Islamic prophecies of the Black Winds of Death, an al-Qaeda plot to attack on the 1,000th day of terror and setting off a volcano in Yellowstone with a nuke.

I'd say that pretty much defines "lunatic."

The way things are going in our culture, when you are old and suffering from Parkinson's you won't be cured, rather you'll be harvested for parts. The thinking at that time will be that you aren't human anymore, or that you are too much of a burden for society. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear not

I doubt this will be a valid concern. Young fresh parts are desireable. Why would you want old parts from someone with a debilitating sickness?

I call B.S. Care to offer some evidence for this sweeping statement? I have no problem with medical advancement, just with "advancement" that is conducted at the expense of someone who has no say in the matter.

Lab rats? Clinical trials on Chimpanzees? These types of tests go on every day and I would certainly say some percentage of them are to the detrimant of those being used for the tests. I'm pretty sure they have no say in the matter as well. Of course that's ok cause they aren't human right? Most human trials are done wiht volunteers, but what about in the past like when MIT did radiation research at a home for the mentally challenged or the Army releasing chemicals into the air on certain populations to test the effects without bothering to tell anyone. There are plenty of sites keeping track of this type of secret studies. Such as above top secret. If you don't find that a credible source you could always look at the CDC pages for the Tuskegee Syphilis Study which was certainly done inappropriatly.

I should probably clarify that I don't think a fertilized embryo is a human yet and that I'm ok with stem cell research etc. I also think that if we are going to ban it then our own government shouldn't be offshoring the research to get around our laws. Besides.. who's to say that with more research we won't work out a method for cloning specific parts and not whole people from whom parts will be harvested. This makes the most sense to me. Like the recent announcment that stem cells may be used to regrow teeth. We might just figure out how to grow just kidneys, livers, hearts, or whatever we need. Then we won't have issues with people dieing while waiting on transplant need lists and can potentially guarantee successful acceptance of new organs by the body.

ppl here seem to miss what was developed long ago. NASA may be faster and would supposedly be general knowledge.

Nope, the skunkworks operations moved to Edwards AFB in California. The restricted area around Edwards is MUCH larger than that around Area 51, the only downside is the improved runway is only about half as long so super and hypersonic craft need to lose more energy before landing.

Given that the research that page cites was retracted and that the rest of the site reads like an X-Files fanfiction:

"The described disc was clearly an antigravity levitating aerial weapons platform in the U.S. arsenal, possibly a Lockheed X-22A two-man discoid craft, the real DarkStar, (of which the unmanned drone X-22 DarkStar is a front "cover" aircraft program to disguise this manned antigravity fighter disc.) Further, it appears that the real DarkStar manned discs come equipped with the latest Neutral Particle Beam weapons, which take apart the target at the molecular level. ET craft do not incinerate humans. Only human military fighters are so deployed. So this report does not deal with any extraterrestrial event."

I would be more than a little suspicious of anything you read there.

See also the other reply discussing the movie-promotion aspect of the story.

Interesting? I remember reading about Ununpentium years ago right here. How can this be news?

This article is a brief summarised explanation of how the PanCam on the Mars Spirit Rover operates, in relation to the strange appearance of the calibration sundial in some pictures. The question was first raised by ATS member AArchAngel, and has been discussed at length in this AboveTopSecret forum thread and ATSNN story:
thread

Mars Spirit Rover Picture analysis.

In this thread I will attempt to summarise my posts to the larger thread.

What are you talking about?

Ok, the initial alarm was raised after it was noticed that the color-calibration sundial mounted on the rover, looked quite markedly different in the Mars-Panorama shots compared to its regular appearance.

Image here

Immediately wide-ranging theories began to pop up. At this stage I knew very little of the particulars of the PanCam so I decided to go and see what the Horses mouth had to say. I sent out a swag of emails to the NASA marsrover team, the Athena Instrument team at Cornell University, and the long shot, an email to Assoc. Professor James Bell. Who is the Pancam Payload Element Lead for the mission.

Now, getting no response from the Athena team, and an automated response from the NASA team. I was amazed and delighted to see that Dr. Bell had indeed taken the time out of his busy schedule to help explain this quirk in the panorama pictures. His email response is below:

quote:

Thanks for writing. The answer is that the color chips on the sundial have different colors in the near-infrared range of Pancam filters. For example, the blue chip is dark near 600 nm, where humans see red light, but is especially bright at 750 nm, which is used as "red" for many Pancam images. So it appears pink in RGB composites. We chose the pigments for the chips on purpose this way, so they could provide different patterns of brightnesses regardless of which filters we used. The details of the colors of the pigments are published in a paper I wrote in the December issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research (Planets), in case you want more details...

All of us tired folks on the team are really happy that so many people around the world are following the mission and sending their support and encouragement...

Thanks,

Jim Bell
Cornell U.

There is a serious research project in progress which trying to get to the bottom of this mystery. If you can look past the occasional conspiracy-theorist-kook, there are actually quite a few thoughtful and intelligent folks participating. Here is the discussion thread for the project:

Voynich Manuscript Research Project @ AboveTopSecret.com

Note: Some of the other research projects are pretty interesting, also. In particular, the Yellowstone Super-Caldera Research Project.

>Even if it isnt ionizing radiation it can obviously still be harmful.
ok...MAYBE something is harmful, as the (review of the) study you pointed out indicates that there were no conclusive results but rather strong correlations. Neither did it show any causal evidence for this effect of nausea and headaches, NOR did it reveal any more information on a hybrid mixture of EMR, which is in reality what we exist in. Take, for example, someone using a 3g phone in a work lounge surrounded by two microwaves, a few computers (with 20" CRT monitors) to check email, 5 people using cell phones from several different networks, while some 13-year old genius in the corner is trying out his version of the philadelphia project based on what he saw on tv last week. In fact, I dont even think you (or I, or /.) even read the actual study, so only a handful can answer the question as to whether this supposed study tried to cancel out OTHER EMR as to not confound the results. And have these other studies you speak of actually tried hard enough to cancel out ALL the confounding variables? You probably can't tell me can you? Oh yeah thats right, you said:
When I post here do I have to qualify everything I say? It would be an endless discourse.

Your line of reasoning is missing something....logic, perhaps? prematurely jumping to conclusions, maybe? Anyway, NO. it is NOT "obvious" as to what the effects of electromagnetic radiation are or even if they are harmful.

>Electrical fields and EMR cause magnetic fields whose health effects are pretty much unknown.
thanks for supporting my argument. :)

>Dismissing something in a heartbeat because it doesn't fit your theology of science really isnt very helpful
Wow, I think you're onto something. This whole theology of science we have of waiting for CONCLUSIVE evidence before embracing an idea is ridiculous. So let's ALL jump on your bandwagon and embrace every correlative study and assume its causal evidence.

Unfortunately, some of us are a little busy this week trying to fight cease-and-desist lawsuits from geniuses like you who take correlative studies as truth, which usually state themselves as INCONCLUSIVE in the abstract on the front cover. While the rest of us our still working on research for conclusive results. So, sniggly, why don't you go ahead and start without us, we'll catch up.

There were estimates a few years ago that the capacity was over two million. Part of me doesn't want to know what their capacity is currently.

The camps were set up as a part of operation Rex84 (search) in the 80s, established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA.

Now that the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II move to establish anyone that breaks any law as a potential terrorist, it makes you wonder what they've got planned...

There's a lot of info on the net about these and other operations. A lot of the websites play the 'paranoid' card a little too strongly (*cough* alex jones*cough*), but I highly recommended you check out available info!

Some links:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/camps.html
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/concentration.htm
http://www.c0balt.com/egg/insane.shtml

I'm not trolling, this is some serious shit, America!

I wonder if the release of these documents will deter the conspiracy theorists.
What do you think? Will people who write stuff like this or list Alien UFO Base Locations will think that is the truth?
I think not. :-D