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What pressure? This isn't a government report, it's an industry report, done by a bunch of Microsoft's competitors. MS will dismiss it as sour grapes, and the government will look at the cost of switching to Macs (the only non-Windows platform available, since Dell doesn't sell anything but Windows XP) and conclude that Bill's right, this so-called expert report is just Gates-bashing at it's worst

Go to Dell Support and you can get detailed instructions on how to take apart and service your laptop from the manufacturer. Apple, wheres' your service manual?

As for everyone espousing the Apples price / performance... maybe for the low-end units, but not for the high-end "desktop replacement" models. Compare a 15" wide screen power book with others like the Dell i8500, or models from HP or Toshiba.

I got an Dell i8500 2.6ghz 15" wuxga+ (1920x1200) ... for $2k. The comparable Apple is nearly $3k... and only has a 1ghz processor. While I realize the mhz rating isn't a direct comparison, a 2.6ghz intel is surely faster than a 1ghz ppc. I've seen that HP and Toshiba now have 3ghz 15 wide screen laptops for $2k.

Battery life is very good in the Dell, I can get about 3.5 to 4 hours, and thats with using wifi, which tends to use more power.

Dell has a 'Desktop Replacement' docking station that does much the same thing but you don't have to detatch your screen to do it.

Personally, I like the Docking Station idea a bit better because it's far easier to set up and tear down which sounds petty but if you have to do it every day (e.g. you take your laptop home with you) you'll really appreciate it.

Also, LCDs aren't the most durable pieces of equipment - I think the chances of something breaking would increase significantly when you detach/reattach it.

Still, if the IBMs are cheaper than the docking station then I'd get one of those... But I know many companies have standardized on Dell so if you're looking for something like this in a Dell shop you don't have to break ranks.

You mention some good points, but there are many companies making a profit off of open source software other than Linux. MySQL, IBM, Trolltech, Intel, and Dell are just a few (yes, I realize some of these companies make money in other ways as well, but they all report their open source-related activities to be profitable).

Lets just hope microsoft doesn't break their own patch like they did last time.

If they are, then yes they are. I'm in the UK, and all the ads I see include VAT these days (this used to be a real problem, hence the new law). Like I said, some places will claim the "business" exemption, but they're treading a fine line. I haven't got any dead tree ads to hand, but looking online:

Dabs, Dell and Dixons all give the tax inclusive price as the headline. In my random sample of 3 sites, that gives me a 100% hit rate.

If you find sites advertising to consumers with non-tax-inclusive prices as the headline, report them to trading standards.

Over at Dell:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_3x_s pecial61.htm

Granted it depends on your definition of gobs of RAM, but it does have a P4 2.2Ghz, 256MB DDR RAM,and Integrated Intel(R) 3D Extreme Graphics. It costs $599. And that includes a 15inch TFT.

Anyway, even if you pay more for your desktop PCs I think you'll agree that thin client boxes needn't cost $600.

- Brian.

Wow. Ford is buying new computers without floppy disk drives... and Dell is so proud they released a white paper about it!

"Realizing that it was purchasing obsolete technology that consumes space and costs money, Ford Motor Company began evaluating its alternatives with help from Dell."

They should have interviewed Steve Jobs. I'm sure he'd have given them some great quotes about floppy-less PCs.

Maybe Dell will next write a white paper about PCs without PS/2 keyboard or mouse ports!

steveha

Maybe it will be of interest...

Um..

Plastic: Dell Dimension

Plastic: Gateway Sb-4100-B

Plastic: Compaq Presario

3 Standard PC's

Not Plastic: PowerMac G5

I think he means that they're bulkier than things like the Dell SX270, or the old Compaq iPaq desktop.

Also, given the blocky shape, they don't really save that much more deskspace over the 'slimline' models found at most OEMs.

You can already bring a 3GHz Pentium 4 to a LAN party in a package that you can carry in one hand. Just buy this.

The FreeDos website has links to the Dell 360 desktop. The interesting thing I found, was that the default configuration with Windows (any version) selected as the OS costs $2863. The exact same options with Red Hat or Free DOS is only $2234.

Yes, that's right. Dell is rooking $629 for Windows. If that doesn't piss you off enough, read this.
However, I do have to say that I am glad there are now 2 major hardware vendors selling desktop systems with Linux as the only OS. IMHO, this is the only thing that IBM needs to do to solidify their commitment to Linux. I love what they're doing with Linux servers, but I sure wish I could buy a Thinkpad with a hardware modem and Linux.

According to Tech Bargains You can get a DELL 400SC 2GHz server without an OS for $299. (3.2GHz just $622)

Not too hard to imagine a cluster of these.

I've been right here, watching. What you refer to was just for select business systems. What about the average person buying a PC?
Where is the option for no OS?

PowerEdge 400SC, 600SC, and 1600SC Xeon

As far as I can tell, the 400SC starts at $299 after a $100 instant rebate, and a $100 mail-in rebate. To customize it to that low of a price, you have to downgrade the processor, RAM, Operating system (Technically, a lot of us would not call it a downgrade given the default choice), and Network switch (No idea why this is included with a computer) from the defaults. Also, keep in mind there is no monitor included.

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Dell Linux Overview

Don't be a lamer like me kids! Check those links!

Of course, you do have to order them with RedHat, but they do give you the option.

Right off of the Dell site:

Linux Products

Dell Linux Overview

Of course, you do have to order them with RedHat, but they do give you the option.

Right off of the Dell site:

Linux Products

Dell Linux Overview

Workstations and servers really don't count. Dell, IBM and HP all will happily sell you those boxes with full support too. here is a Dell Link. Note that dell will not put linux on a desktop box at all (or maybe MS wont let them do it), but happily puts it on servers.
I think this is somehow related to the OEM contract with M$ tho don't know how it works out.

Well, obviously you havent dealt with the lower quality, someone like H1-B Microsystems or other companies that have screwed over the consumer or high-caliber employees through imported workers. Eventually, the people who outsourced will end up wasting money trying to clean up what mistakes that their international outsourcing did - versus those who saved their money by staying domestic.

(Actually, I do own some Dell stock.)

I had a problem with my recent Dell Laptop, I should have a $450 rebate and my packing slip only said $100. The only reason I brought the laptop was because of this rebate. I tried calling Dell and they said I needed to talk to my sales rep, his name is Eric Coley at eric_coley@dell.com. He apologized and said they would send a new packing slip and that I should not send in my rebate for the $100 yet. A few weeks later nothing, I keep calling and leaving messages and emailing and no answer. Perhaps one of you could get through and tell him Blaine Hilton is waiting his response. You can call him at 1-800-WWW-DELL, choosing option 1 and then entering his extension of 58682.

I've heard other people have the same problem. I guess the next step is to file complaints with the FTC, and the BBB. I also have wasted over 20 hours in this whole mess.

You *still* have to buy the machines. Or are you saying that 10 machines per developer at a company is ok?

Hardware is cheap (unless you're getting ripped off)...besides, just because you can install Windows on ten machines clustered around your desk, does that mean you will? Granted, not everybody needs multiple machines, but I'd like to see you try debugging (for instance) videoconferencing software using just one machine. Last time I checked, VMware and DirectX don't play well together. (Besides, you can build a second, reasonably powerful computer for what VMware costs.)

Dell agrees to pay, subject to the Court's approval, and not to oppose any application for or award by the Court to Class Counsel of attorneys' fees, together with costs and expenses up to $1,750,000 (One Million Seven Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars) ("Attorneys' Fees and Expenses"). The Parties agree that no award greater than that amount shall be requested or made. This amount is in addition to and separate from all other consideration and remedies paid to and available to the Settlement Class.

Dell agrees to pay, subject to the Court's approval, and not to oppose any application for or award by the Court to Class Counsel of attorneys' fees, together with costs and expenses up to $1,750,000 (One Million Seven Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars) ("Attorneys' Fees and Expenses"). The Parties agree that no award greater than that amount shall be requested or made. This amount is in addition to and separate from all other consideration and remedies paid to and available to the Settlement Class.

Dell agrees to pay, subject to the Court's approval, and not to oppose any application for or award by the Court to Class Counsel of attorneys' fees, together with costs and expenses up to $1,750,000 (One Million Seven Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars) ("Attorneys' Fees and Expenses"). The Parties agree that no award greater than that amount shall be requested or made. This amount is in addition to and separate from all other consideration and remedies paid to and available to the Settlement Class.

Dell agrees to pay, subject to the Court's approval, and not to oppose any application for or award by the Court to Class Counsel of attorneys' fees, together with costs and expenses up to $1,750,000 (One Million Seven Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars) ("Attorneys' Fees and Expenses"). The Parties agree that no award greater than that amount shall be requested or made. This amount is in addition to and separate from all other consideration and remedies paid to and available to the Settlement Class.

"On a 32bit system, there can only be 2^32 addressable bytes (4GB). Intel had kind of cheated and added a couple of extra bits that the operating system can use, allowing a full 64GB, although any one process only has access to 4GB at a time."

Source

If you look at that Dell it does not come with any productivity software. Add on ~$200 bucks for that. An eMac comes with AppleWorks (word processing, desktop publishing, spreadsheet, etc.) and iLife (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie.) The eMac's hard drive is twice as big as the Dell's. The eMac can be upgraded to have the same amount of memory as the Dell for $50, and to have the same support as the Dell for $169.

So there is NO price advantage for the Dell, even when comparing a specially negotiated package unique to the Virginia vs. the standard offering from Apple for any school anywhere.

Read before you think. Think before you post.

Dell has a press release that shows that they're not afraid of SCO's claims...

Along with what everyone else has said, I will say that it's not that Apple's products are too expensive, it's that Apple doesn't sell cheaper computers. Theres a huge difference there.

Not quite, apple's systems are still more expensive than a similar PC system, for example:

Here is an apple system.

and Here is a similar spec PC system.

Note how the PC system is cheaper, has a faster processor (even taking in the fact that mac cpus are faster) and more memory.

This is what people are talking about.

This question made me wonder could Macintosh users, use Pocket PCs? YES! I did a quick google search and produced this neat program which I cannot test because I'm one of those pesky Windows buggers but maybe it'll be helpful they have a free demo and it works with Dell Axim's and the Basic Model is only $199

Links:
Mac Pocket PC Syncing software

Dell Axim X5 Basic

"What percentage of people who intend to install Linux are going to jump through these hoops?"

As opposed to buying a computer without WindowsXP, and never spending the $199 in the first place?

Oops, forgot, you can't do that. Even reputable computer shops now insist that you show them your Windows license before they'll allow you to buy an OS-less computer. Pity that such practises were outlawed with the microsoft settlement, but doesn't seem to have stopped anyone.

As for Dell, near-enough the only corporate supplier, good luck getting anything without WindowsXP pro. Even if you can find redhat, they'll still charge you for the windows license.

jeremycec writes " Evidently, nothing's been resolved since 2001 , when this happened the first time. In these Memorandum Opinion and Preliminary Injunction documents from Judge Royce C. Lamberth of the U.S. District Court for Washington, D.C., we see how the court stepped in to pull the plug on a system, which, through its abject lack of due care, left someone's important financial information wide open to attackers. According to the former CIO of the Bureau of Indian Affairs: 'For all practical purposes, we have no security, we have no infrastructure, ... Our entire network has no, firewalls on it. I don't like running a network that can be breached by a high school kid.' So, when the BIA could get no relief through Interior's IT Dept., it went to the courts. Source: Government Computer News "

A handheld is made to play games. The gap between handheld and laptop is really disappearing with this product: the size of the screen, the different capabilities, etc.

What I'd like to see next is a faster processor and a little more RAM. Oh, and I'm sure we would like to have an OS to mess around with. That would be a great product for Sony to make! Wait, that market would already be covered by Dell or Gateway.

Isn't the point of a handheld to be able to play simple games like Tetris? When you get tired of these, just plug in your laptop for some high powered gaming.

i speak as the voice of experience here. i'm a marine (still) working in iraq (i've been out here for six months).

since the start of this conflict, my unit had a number of Dell latitudes and a number of Panasonic toughbooks. Let me tell you, the weather here in the fertile crescent is, in a word, unforgiving.
often, both the dells and the panasonics are hot to the touch.
however, i can count on one hand the number of toughbooks that i've seen fail, while to count the number of latitudes, i'd have to use both hands, take off my boots, and maybe even undo my trousers.
i can't oficially say "the marine corps uses toughbooks! toughbooks make you strong! strength crushes enemnies!", but from my own personal experience, which just happens to include a six month tour in iraq and kuwait, toughbooks are the way to go if you need a badass laptop.

peace.

About a month ago I recieved my first PocketPC (a Dell Axim). I started, many years ago, w/ a Pilot 1000, I believe it was. Then other palms, then a III, IIIx. Then a Samsung i300 phone that had the Palm built in.

While I do love the phone w/ the palm built in, the PocketPC is so much more useful then the palms are (excluding, obviously, the bundled phone and palms).

There's more ram. I can throw documents on them. It's wireless. I can now surf the web on the shitter, in boring meetings. There's *room* on the thing to store just about anything I want.

I never had that with Palm. It was always a meager amount of space, no headphone jack, no color, no wireless, no way to add extra storage space (cf/sd). I couldn't just throw an excel doc on the thing and it just worked. Syncing w/ Exchange (at work, ugh) was never a process that I had 100% confidence in.

I'm not a big MS fan, but I highly doubt I'll ever go back to using the Palm products anytime soon. Which is sad, because for years I was one of their biggest fans. That is, until their innovation practically stopped. Now they've bought Handspring... kinda Microsoftian don't you think? Someone's got a good idea... let's buy them!!

Anyway, I'm quite happy with the PocketPC. I dither down video clips to it's size with MS's Movie app, I've got mp3's on it too. Wireless surfing just works.

Now if only the Axim had the 802.11b/g built into it, and was a bit thinner and lighter...

I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.

Thats what the government is for. When the raw, slimy greed starts to ooze out of capitalism and corrode the "American Way of Life(tm)", the government should step in and get people's and companies' acts cleaned up.

The government should say "Look, we know its going to cost you, and we know you're going to pass the cost onto the consumer, but you better start a recycling program, and stick to it." They've done the same to stop child labor, to enforce minimum wages, to increase air quality, and so on.

Of course, it doesn't work that way since our government sank into the slimepits, but thats another story. Its clear whose side the current government is on, what with the abolishing of overtime and (perceived?) failures in the punishment of enron and microsoft.

On the other hand, I know that several manufacturers have in fact begun recycling programs. Such as Dell, HP/Compaq, and even Gateway which was the hardest to turn up.

Ahh, so because you don't know of any people using it. It dosn't exist ? It's an issue, don't deny it.

No, here's another wow, another It IS a problem and DOES exist.
Not bad hardware. Why can't you accept it ?

http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/model_latit _latit_x200.htm. it's pretty nice, although i prefer the c400 myself. the x200 is just too small.

mmhmm

nope, noone has scsi with SMP ;)

But that's not the interesting part. The interesting part of all this is: Can you imagine a BEOWULF CLUSTER OF DELL WINDOWS XP REINSTALLATION CD'S?! Can you?!

If you have a G4 or whatever you DO have a choice of OS. Either an Apple OS or Linux or Darwin.

If you buy a computer from SGI what OS choice do you have when you order it? For the workstation, it don't look like it
http://www.sgi.com/workstations/fuel/sys_softw are. html
http://www.sgi.com/workstations/tezro/sys_so ftware .html
http://www.sgi.com/workstations/octane2/sys _softwa re.html

Unless you hadn't paved the way and I hadn't the karma to burn I wouldn't bother, but...

If you buy a computer from XXXX what OS choice do you have when you order it?

Insert any pc hw vendor there and you know the answer.

Few examples:
IBM
Dell
HP (uses servlets so the link's not direct, but try customizing a desktop/notbook from there...)
etc...

But I just dont see any notebooks in the market with Nvidia graphic cards

Look harder buddy:

Dell Inspiron 8500 ( Look in the list you can customize one with a GeForce 4 4200 Go )

Toshiba Satellite 5205 ( This one has the latest mobile Nvidia card. A little bit heavier than the Dell though and only supports 802.11b )

Enjoy!