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Ford To Move To Linux
KingDaveRa writes "The Register is reporting that motor giant Ford is switching to Linux for its sales systems, human resources, customer relations and infrastructure, referencing a report in yesterday's Scotland on Sunday. According to The Register, the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE." Update: 09/16 01:51 GMT by T : An anonymous reader points to this NewsForge report, according to which Ford is not moving to Linux.
Microsoft is officially Found On Road Dead. ;-)
Whoever won, the contract is a serious step forward for Linux in the corporporate market...
;-)
Are you meaning to tell me that Burlington Coat Factory's 1300 Linux boxes back in 1999 wasn't a major win for corporate Linux?
At the time I remembering thinking that it was a pretty important step in showing that Linux was a viable alternative. Apparently no one listened. Is anyone going to listen to Ford?
Doesn't Gates drive a Ford?
Bowie J. Poag
guess they got tired of Fix or Repair Daily...
http://www.casi-rusco.com Bought by GE while they were porting there enterprise security System to RH 7. They also have several other projects on RedHat...
Linux...First On Race Day
I like the sounds of that.
Gibble: Descriptive of an emotional state in which one's mind is scrabbling for some purchase on reality
For the purposes of any company, there are some good reasons to use linux. Firstly, you can often increase security. Secondly, you can reduce hardware costs, compared to windows. Thirdly, your employees probably won't be able to figure out how to play minesweeper on company time :)
====
Crudely Drawn Games
thinkgeek will start carrying stickers of Calvin peeing on a Microsoft logo?
If I were an IT manager, this is exactly what I would do. It is a cheaper option and more secure IF the administrator knows what he is doing. I would still keep Windows clients for the marketing and sales people so that they can create powerpoint presentations and smear bullshit everywhere to sell stuff
It brings a whole new meaning to "Crash"!
Most new, non-game applications these days are written for the Web.
This way, any platform can connect to the application and run it the same way as anyone else would on a Palm Pilot or Pocket PC or Linux or Solaris or Windows or whatever.
Through XML and standard Web technologies, we are making a revolution in availability. No longer does each client/end-user of the application have to download and install certain drivers or use a certain computer -- the application behaves and runs the same on any device.
When an app does have to be a traditional desktop program, don't get me wrong -- I know what works, and I would choose Linux. But for most all-new programs, bosses are increasingly and more often suggesting that these be written for the Web, and for the Web exclusively.
The Linux-vs.-Microsoft thing is dying.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
This is just the beginning of a whole slew of major players announcing the move to Linux. For each one that is announcing, there have got to be at least a dozen or more looking.
The fact that companies of the size of Ford are switching, rather than just using the threat of Linux as a stick with which to beat Microsoft, will be sending real shivers of fear up the spine of the Beast of Redmond. This is the point at which they have to start changing their business model, and fast, unless they want to spend a few years in the wilderness like IBM did after their business model died. They really don't have much time left...
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
A tree sprouts from the forest floor and grows to majestic height. For awhile it stands tall and massive, blocking the sunlight from other sprouts. Then eventually it falls over and becomes a log.
Note to Microsoft: "Tim-berrrrrr"
my ford runs on gas /end lame joke
the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE
So who won?
to match it shit cars with a shit os...
i thought i was at slashdot???
wtf?
where is the 'new' linux hangout??
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
In germany they've rolled out brand new Dell's running W2K a few month ago.
Well, I doubted Ford's tough-guy-with-a-tough-truck image would ever make slashdot, but it seems they have an IT department that is Like A Rock(TM) So, can I chmod people to keep them from driving my truck?
SAILING MISHAP
"We're not only Ford tough but Linux tough!"
Meanwhile, Bill Gates made an official announcement today that he is switching his Ford Pinto with Hyundai Excel. Gates insisted this is NOT an "act of retaliation whatsoever," but just a "matter of personal preference."
...the tide is beginning to turn. Major corps are starting to look at alternatives to windows (oddly, not so much at Apple, for reasons unknown)...
Next to follow, might be major software vendors starting to release apps for Linux- stuff that you currently might find on SUN or SGI machines, and what you will also find running on Windows machines.
I predict that in 5 years the landscape will be *very* different than what it is today. MS has had thier day in the sun.
do() || do_not();
I read that he got himself a VW when the new beetles came out.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
bzzzt... sorry, this is slashdot.
"the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE"
Its been years, but I'm impressed with Ford for this move. Something tells me MS wont bee too pleased though.
Now I want to see new car prices drop, as this should save them tons of money on upgrades, etc.
Now if they would just fix the computers in their cars, so they would run better.. lol
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default. asp?url=/TechNet/prodtechnol/cms/case/ford.asp
Foe
Of
Retarded
Darl?
--Chag
I hate Ford... I love Linux... what do I do? HELP!
#define DRM chmod 000
So Linus Torvalds is from Finland, right? The new motto for Linux could be...
wait for it...
"Built Fjord Tough."
...
After all, what is Open Office for?
I thought that, then I installed the latest version of OpenOffice and I realised - the rules *have* changed!
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
"you can have it in any colour you like, as long as it is black" (Ford - about 1928 or so)
"you can have linux in any flavour you like as long as it is Redhat (or Suse)" (Ford - 2003)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
a million linux advocates in /. reaching orgasm simultaneously?
Ok, brb. I got to go do a victory dance.
Say bye-bye. Can you say bye-bye, Bill?
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
Good for letters to your mom - won't handle business spreadsheets.
BOO! TERRO
Ford probably doesn't get a lot of MS formatted documents from customers (i.e. people who buy cars). They probably do get a lot from suppliers, but if Ford switches, you can bet they will as well.
A comment like that indicates a room temperature IQ. He probably got confused when someone switched on his $5,000 new computer for him.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
I hope this isn't just some tactic by Ford to draw a better price from Microsoft ala the article about the Microsoft VS. Linux Slush Fund
It would really be a win for the computing world in general if this signalled real competition in the corporate workplace for the MS monopoly.
Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
Comparing Windows to a Car ...
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon".
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a manoeuvre such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10.You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.
Cheap UK and US VPS
What part of "Score:-1, Troll" didn't you get?
Asswipe.
to try sending Ford an invoice!
Come on Darl!
My rights don't need management.
I am a Ford Customer and I have never sent a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document to them. I would doubt that any Ford customer would send them a Word, Excel or Powerpoint document. Suppliers are going to have to adjust if Ford does this throughout their organization.
Perhaps. Until Office files are DRM controlled.
BOO! TERRO
outdated designs -- poor QA and reliability -- and a decreasing marketshare -- sounds like Is Linux what ford needs to give themselves and enema?
And yaknow here's a more interesting question: "How long will it take for Ford to move back to Microsoft?"
Linux or No I still won't buy a ford _ever_ again.
Reminds me of my first car.
Ford IS NOT replacing any of their Windows workstations with Unix at present in fact they are in the middle of upgrading all W2K workstations with XP.
This is a server consolidation project moving all exisisting servers onto large (multi processor etc etc) Unix machines.
Asswipe.
usually reserved for Karma whores who post anonymously.
We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
A good sentiment, and I agree with you about choosing Red Hat, but Ford owns several international brands now. Check out www.ford.com.
Wow. Ford is buying new computers without floppy disk drives... and Dell is so proud they released a white paper about it!
"Realizing that it was purchasing obsolete technology that consumes space and costs money, Ford Motor Company began evaluating its alternatives with help from Dell."
They should have interviewed Steve Jobs. I'm sure he'd have given them some great quotes about floppy-less PCs.
Maybe Dell will next write a white paper about PCs without PS/2 keyboard or mouse ports!
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Since Ford is an SAP shop the transition shouldn't be a painful one at all, other than the possibility of end users filling up the help desk cue with mundane requests.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
That you would like a single point of failure, the web browser, to be entirely out of your control and in the hands of a third party that doesn't care about the needs of your business.
You would like it to be in the hands of people who build obsolescence into their products either by discontinuing support for your happily working Operating System and Userland or by pushing new standards into the common platform.
By funneling the majority of your applications through one client API you could end up staring at "we have to upgrade the browser to make Application X work but Application Y breaks".
The web browser has set back application development 20 years.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Strange. I have no real problem with them using OpenOffice. Why should ford who will probably use StarOffice?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I would choose SuSE, which is the best desktop linux distribution out there, better than Mandrake or all new desktop only distributions such as lindows.
Unfortunately they may choose Red Hat because it is a US company.
Everyone seems to be making the same presumptions.
1. The initial Scottland newspaper report was correct.
2. That Desktops are involved.
3. That large corporations would ever be able to go to a single OS (they can't - legacy kills that idea).
Perhaps the answer is somewhere in between.
Is that a request or a demand?
Yeah, sure. I'm sure a company the size of Ford could demand that the suppliers conform, but is that really how you wish to push open standards?
Won't handle macro viruses don't you mean?
Gnumeric does :)
Finkployd
You know, Ford wouldn't have considered such a move if it didn't cost $699 per seat for linux licenses. Thanks to SCO for giving linux the corporate credibility it needs. Damn GNU people -- if they had just charged for it from the beginning, corporate America would have loved it.
I can't even begin to think how many people have said (in redneck voice) "Free? How kin it be any good iffn it's free? Microsoft rules!! W0000t!"
GF.
Lots of petrified grits
Alternatively, their suppliers will be forced to install Open Office so that they can read and reply to similar material coming from Ford.
Who does the most purchasing? Who spends most time in the "customer" role in business-to-business transactions with Ford? Who, in other words, has most clout - Ford, their suppliers, or their customers?
Network effects work in more than one direction.
While Ford is based in North America, Ford does sell globally. The models that they sell in South America and Europe are different than the models that they sell in the US. Deciding between SUSE and Red Hat is only natural as they are the two biggest distributors.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I agree. The trend to produce major applications based on "the Web" (a term I find hard to use when referring to, say, intranets, but will accept) is one that benefits almost everyone.
We're in an age when even the smallest hardware store can buy a highly reliable Linux server and have MySQL and Apache running on it for under $500. All you need then is the software that'll keep your stock inventory, and the equipment to network your existing -- probably low spec -- PCs up, and off you go.
Web apps are beautiful in the way that small ma-and-pa outfits don't necessarily need to upgrade their crusty old 200MHz PCs bought in 1995. All they need is a Web browser (and perhaps some proprietary format to handle checkout scanners, and the like), and with a small investment in a server, they're up and running.
Web Hosting Reviews
i'm putting together a very large, very high profile communications (computers, telephones, etc) and security system for admin systems fora multi-billion dollar program for a major aerospace company.
I was told "this is critical stuff, it just can't go down every time there's a virus" and "you have to provide email, internet connectivity, web surfing, telephones, and data backup for IP video cameras - these guys n the ship are going to need perks and lots of data to home in order to hire people to work on this thing" and "you're only getting 1 dedicated geek for all 100 folks on the ship"
my security manager told me "you're not going with Windows XP anywhere - so come up with something else".
Because of space constraints, and the fact that i've only got 1 dedicated geek on the ship, but may lose communications with the shore, i have to be able to "power user" admin from the shore, but "stupid simple" admin from on the ship itself.. the option was clear.
4 XServes, 2 XServe RAIDs, and Linux workstations.
It was a no brainer.
I can admin all the servers and workstations from the shore with command line, and i can have the semi-geek on the vessel manage the servers with Apple's point-and-duh interfaces.... plus, i'm 100% immune from all Windows and Exchange viruses.
While Linux and Mac OS X (and other Unix systems) are "theoretically" just as suseptible to viruses as Windows - the "real" world has not panned out that way for the last 5 years. So, with blessing from my boss and security managers, a multi-billion dollar program is going to do all of its internet connected work with Linux and Mac.
We'd go Mac on all the desktop/laptop computers, but that's been a much more difficult sell, (for some damn reason).
This is happeneing everywhere. It just doesn't always get reported... though I get the feeling you will hear about this installation from Apple. in fact, I'm going to ask them to make us a poster child - because this is the obvious way to do business for me.
There was no Microsoft solution that would cut it for me.
After switching to linux, the staff felt a strange feeling while using gnome. In fact one of the car designers had a strange idea, to model a car after gnome. It has all the features taken out to make it simpler and easier to use.
No air conditioning, electric windows, radios, heating controls or any of that crap, they are needless distractions.
No passenger seats. Since 90% of cars drive around with just 1 person this car only has one seat.
No boot, you don't need to carry all that junk around with you.
Automatic transmission, since gears are confusing. Can't go faster than
100km/h, since youre only breaking the speed limit anyway.
FInally, the postions of the accelators/brakes are reversed.
If they took the KDE route you would have a $70,000 20 tonne SUV with a widescreen TV in the back seats.
I think Ford will not demand that they quit using Word, et al, but they will demand that suppliers use the formats that they can read on their computers. I would bet that vmware maybe inplace initially to hanlde MS formetted documents until all on a commonly supported platform.
Who knows, in 5 years MS Office could be on Linux( or MS Linux )?
Those stickers you see all over are not Calvin of Calvin and hobbes fames. They are similear, but different enough to not infringe. A little legally trickery mostly, but they are not Calvin and should not be thought of that way.
Every Ford supplier will now be switching to Linux.
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
Microsoft is the desktop OS. The article addresses infrastructure resources (file/print, database, webservices hosting, etc).
Speak truth to power.
Isn't this the first Fortune 500 company to actually switch?
Minor my ass!
This is funny, because I know somebody who's switching FROM Ford:
/ 2003-September/009561.html
Okay, now lets make Ford like Microsoft...
My Ford has an oil leak. Ford doesn't call to tell me to tell me there's a big problem with oil leaks and a fix is available, but I find out from a guy on the Internet that they will fix it for free. I get my car back home from the shop and the next day there's oil all over the floor. I call Ford and they tell me they'll fix it next week.
A month later a repair is available. On the way home from the shop I crash into a tree because the oil leak fix conflicted with the brake system. Ford says, yeah, that's been happening... there should be a fix for the fix next week. I spend more than the car is worth rebuilding it, (Ford said I should have test driven it before I drove it home.) but can't really drive it safely until the fixed fix is available. I get home from the shop without getting in an accident (after the fixed fix) and as I pull into my driveway my neighbor says, Hey bill, did you know you've got a pretty bad oil leak? Disgusted, I take my Ford to the dealer and want to buy another car, preferably non Ford. He informs me that all the dealers in the area carry only Fords. But, he says, the newest, fanciest, most expensive Ford has been completely redesigned and is guaranteed not to have oil leaks.
Without much choice, I tell the dealer I'll take the new Ford and would like to trade in my old Ford. He informs me the old one isn't worth anything, but for a few dollars off he can give me an upgrade. I just have to keep my old Ford at home and every time I want to start the engine of my new Ford, I have to put the key in the old one first. This works okay for awhile. (Although I have to have the new Ford rebuilt as well because I'm T-boned by a guy in an older Ford that just repaired his oil leak.) A little bit later I come out and my new Ford has an oil leak!
I call Ford and they tell me there will be a fix next week. The fix is available in a couple of months and I take it in for repair. Remembering my brake incident, I stomp on the brakes several times hard, check the lights, washers and air bag. It all works well. I try to drive home but can't get there because the interstate is blocked with leaky Fords that have been T-boned by leaky Fords with bad brakes. I try to pass the time by listening to the radio... but it doesn't work any more. Since I can't get home, I head back to the dealer to complain about the radio. They tell me they can get the radio working but the "work-around" will kill my rear defogger. If I wait another 6 months though, a new model is being released that won't have oil, brake or radio problems...
I get angry and drive out of town to a dealership I heard about that can supply me with a custom configured *NIX Automobile. The dealer is cool but the new *NIX is way harder to drive than the Ford. I like it though and decide to buy one. Unfortunately, there is some kind of law or agreement that says I have to pay for a Ford (even though I don't get it) as well a fee to have my new *NIX setup and delivered.
At this point I give up with the dealers, go buy the book "Rebuilding your Ford into a *NIX in 21 days", do so, and live happily ever after. ( Later, I have a good laugh when a Ford rep comes on TV and tells the world that the latest Ford fiasco could have been avoided if all owners would just give a spare set of house keys to them so they could come in whenever they want and work on them when the owners aren't around. )
http://lists.netsys.com/pipermail/full-disclosure
John Kerry is a Joke!
Heh... that's funny. Not funny "ha-ha", but funny ignorant.
You won't find any fjords in Finland. =)
Pining for the Fords?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
At least now they won't have to practice FORD on their computers - IE FIX OR REPAIR DAILY like they do with the cars. ^_^
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
I like Apple. In fact, if I win the lottery (or get a good IT job - same odds) any time soon, I've got my eye on one of the new dual G5s. However, I can't think of any compelling reason why I'd try to convince me boss to do the same thing companywide.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Fix Or Repair Daily
Fucked Over Road Disaster
Found On Road Dead
First On Recall Day
Or does it just mean they'll be using IE on Windows and some hidden servers they never see will be doing all the back-end processing for their browser-based sales system, human resources and customer relations applications?
Deploying linux server-side is old news, and (after actually reading both articles) I really don't see language that indicates Ford's linux decision is anything but server-side infrastructure. Did I miss the client-side comment that make this "a serious step forward for Linux in the corporate market" ?
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
Go ahead. Envision it.
Envision it, dammit!
Fine! Don't! See if I care!
Hmph!
...
...
...
Linux powered T-Birds?
--- Ban humanity.
Of course, you are correct but that doesn't make them any less an American company. I'm disappointed in the moderators (as usual) for having a confused view of the proper role of Linux and calling my post flamebait.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Most of the supplier's information will come as EDI (Electronic Data Interchange). Big companies like Ford, GM, Wal-Mart dictate the data format to the suppliers, not the other way around.
.doc, .xls or .ppt files. E-mail, maybe.
Customers don't send Ford
The vast majority of MS Office files are going to be internally generated, and Open/Star Office can handle them well enough.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I don't have the balls to do it, but can anyone get Ford on the phone? Or are there any Ford.com people who read slashdot who can verify?
No, this is not a minor accomplishment.
The use of an open system as the company's platform, will have a great affect on *many* other companies.
Ford deals with hundreds, if not thousands, of vendors/suppliers/dealers/etc. They will be required to conform to fords needs, sending a Word document (that is completly propritery) to ford when it can't be opened is not an option.
These other companies will be forced into making the effort to use open standards when communicating.
a minor accomplishment would be getting a company that is small and has few comapnies it deals with, converted to Linux.
.....and documents can only be read on the latest hardware. Yup, I can see all prudent businesses throwing cash at that one.
Ford contracts out their support to the lowest bidders. I wish I got paid for every time friends at Ford (engineers) called or e-mailed asking for help fixing messes tech support can't or won't. Their support is unresponsive and clueless. They get hit by every virus that comes along because patching servers and maintaining AV software lags.
Now, getting Linux in may be a big win, but who is going to administer it? If they try to get the quality of support they've gotten for their Windows server networking (bucket of warm spit), they will be in trouble. It will be difficult to find a large number of competent Linux admins, and if they are not careful about the qualifications of who they hire, it could end up being as big a mess as their current Microsoft servers.
I'm no fan of Ford (have never owned anything other than Chevy and Olds, actually), but it's a big-enough company that if some random dealer/parts vendor/etc. tried sending it a locked-up Office file, they'd send it back with instructions to resend in an open format.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
You don't seem to get it.
99.999% import rate is not good enough. The 100% rate guaranteed by the use of the same version of MS Office is.
BOO! TERRO
"Ford, you're turning into a penguin, stop it!"
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
I work for an automotive software vendor. Ford is one of our biggest customers and they require that our development and releases be done on HPUX. We all hate HPUX around here but if the customer wants it, they get it.
I'm anxious to know if this Linux adoption will switch their engineering requirements. I guess only time will tell.
Blaze a trail to the New World
I guess Linux really is ready for the ... Oh wait, this isn't a Star Trek article??
So, what percentage of MS Office users have the same version?
The Scotsman talks about Ford "defecting" from Windows. Was Ford really using Windows for a lot of its servers? Or is this a loss for IBM, Sun, or some other "big iron" maker?
- Mandrake
- Red Hat
- Gentoo
- Knoppix
- Debian
- Slackware
- MEPIS (wtf??)
- SuSE
Not having a "real" downloadable distro, just a "demo disk", is really hurting their numbrs.There are no fjords, as in fjords plural. There is a fjord, as in one.
...
Doesn't matter if they insist that the distribution will be LSB certified.
;-)
They will do that?
Well, now I do know how car I select: Ford or Volvo?
This shows in a big way that large companies don't give a damn what SCO says. Perhaps this is the first in a bunch of companies to publically announce plans to use linux in spite of SCO.
FYI Ford is roughly 100 times bigger than SCO. IBM is roughly 10 times the size of Ford.
you can save in ms office format in open office... and open office can read ms office stuff... this is not an issue
What is slashdot?
Ford: We're switching to Linux.
Microsoft: Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.
(Shamelessly stolen from D.N.A.)
This statement is false.
you're right, working a disclaimer into the joke would've made it MUCH funnier
The point is compatibility. Those who end up in trouble with any compatibility issues will buy the new version. Problem solved.
BOO! TERRO
"That makes Ford's defection to Linux the biggest potential threat to Microsoft in the software developer's 28-year history"
Yeah, I agree. Microsoft has lost all credibility in the public eye for their ability to fix their permanently defective product line (watched the Comedy channels lately? Comedians are getting laughs at Microsoft's expense). Windows is simply getting in the way of people doing their work (updates, upgrades, security patch, REPEAT!).
Ford's a big name brand company, it's American as apple pie, and has nothing to do with technology. That Microsoft couldn't hang on to them speaks to the value proposition of Linux over Windows. To restate the quote above another way, this is the biggest win for Linux to date.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
Ok, since you insist: What's the name of this alleged Finnish fjord, and where do you suggest one might find it? =)
When Ballmer lost the Munich deal and went for an extended ski holiday in Switzerland, he already knew what was coming.
With all the licensing pain, arm-twisting upgrades, incompatible Office formats, treadmills from last year and the worms from this year, the momentum will gather and feed itself.
As more companies, governments and educational institutions worldwide adopt Linux, there will be more coders and money to make Linux more usable and an even more favorable migration path for users.
Two years from now everyone will be amazed except for the zealots who will be shaking their heads wondering "What took it so long?".
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Jokes aside, the iDrive in the BMW 7 series is Windows CE, and that had a host of problems, including just stopping randomly, and locking people in their cars. I forgot who it was, but some high up Asian government official got locked in his car, they had to break the window and have him crawl out. He was surprisingly NOT pleased.
I can just see it now...Letters from Redmond storming Ford headquarters...
Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.
heh...
-CSA
... And you are about as cool as a pair of penny loafers sorry if i offended any penny loafing gents out there ;-)
What is slashdot?
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Slashsnot's *purpose in life* is to print Linux ass kiss propaganda and Micro$oft $ux drivel...
I have to admit that I'm skeptical of the sourcing of this (El Reg and The Scotsman???) but it is a significant shift when you consider that Ford is one of the largest corporate entities in the world AND that they have a sigtnificant history of being visibly cozy to MS. For example, they were apparently happy to be used by MS ( for example, here) as a marketing tool.
In addition, as recently as 1999 Ford IT was promoting a "Microsoft-centric strategy" to the extent that using Microsoft technology was more important than using functional technology for new projects.
yeah, because documents which can only be read on a machine with network access to the corporate DRM server are going to be sent outside the company all the time.
It isn't here yet-but the effort seems pretty active.
Just watch it happen.
BOO! TERRO
Once described to me as the Finnish fjord, though you may disagree.
...
So you're in support of the senseless software upgrade spiral that is killing commerce.
Hehe. I don't think I get 99.999% success rate opening Office documents with the same copy of the application that created it, on the same computer, five minutes after saving. 'Specially if it has a Visio diagram or similar embedded in it - time to dig out Open Office for a bit of MS Office document repair.
Seriously, 99.999% would be more than adequate. Not that Open Office is that good, but around 98% would probably be fine. I'd say that OO was somewhere in the 90% to 95% at the moment.
Volvo take the decision...and was not RedHat nor SuSe...it was Montavista
Gates: Someone write a memo, employees are no longer allowed to drive Fords. They must switch to BMW.
Suit: Sir, remember that town in Germany that switched to Linux?
Gates: Volvo's then.
Suit: Sir, Sweeden is a socialist country, no doubt they'll be next.
Gates: Lexus then damnit!
Suit: Sir, those aisian countries are developing their own operating system.
Gates: That's it. Transfer all money budgeted for OS R&D into forming a new car company. Hell, we won't even have to change our slogan.
This is actually a good point. It's not just a coup for Linux vs. Microsoft, but a big "F you" to SCO by saying "yeah, we'll do Linux". I hope more companies realize this and stop halting their Linux work or other companies will start their Linux work and stop fearing SCO's threats. This will be interesting to watch...both MS and SCO.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
that's the funniest thing I've seen on /.
BTW, I'm just arguing that point-- I agree that 100% import is important, just not that it's easy (or even possible) to achieve version synchronicity among large groups of people. But then, that's an infrastructure flaw as much as anything else.
Indeed I do disagree. That is nothing but an oblong body of water. A fjord has steep cliffs on either side.
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/fjord
Now enough of this nonsense.
So, I assume this means SCO will be sending Ford a very big bill soon...
This story is racing around the net like wildfire but, the source is obscure at best. While I'd love to jump on the fan-boy bandwagon I have serious reservations about the validity of everyones assumptions that this is going to be a company-wide/global migration.
Major unanswered questions remain. How much of their network is going to be switched to Linux. Based soley on the Scotland paper's article, I can easily see that this is reporting any of a number of possibilities other than global replacement of Windows systems. Some possibilities include; that this is specific to a local Scottish plant, or that this applies to back-end servers that run Oracle databases.
While I certainly hope that this report is true and that it is indeed global, I think that is an idea that borders on fantasy. It seems incredible as well as unlikely that Ford really plans to replace Microsoft everywhere in their corporation which puts a damper on the euphoric claims of 370,000 PCs globally.
As a final note to bolster my suspicions, it seems more than likely that any vendor such as Red Hat, SuSE, or IBM could win a massive contract like replacing Windows globally at Ford without issuing lots of press releases about it. Thus far the only source I have been able to find is the Scottish paper and all of the other internet sites, including The Register and Slashdot, are citing that same source.
How would you propose that I tell my clients that they must not don't sell me heavily macroed MS Office documents that I cannot open with "open office" because I'm a cheapskate who can't bother to buy and install MS Office to do business with them?
BOO! TERRO
you were funny /end your lame life
When my car stops leaking, I start worrying that my oil tank might be empty. :)
the biggest battle was over which Linux vendor to use - RedHat or SuSE.
I guarantee you that the Ford motor company's IT department is bigger than either RedHat or SuSE. Why choose a distro when you can make your own system so easily? I mean, which is better: paying high priced consultants and smooth talking project managers to solve your emergency problems on their terms, or pressuring your own guys to do the same?
Plus, who wouldn't want to see Ford Linux? I may not like Ford cars, or Ford as a car company, but Ford as an engineering paradigm is something that I have respected for a LONG time. I even used to have a big Ford emblem on my first webserver...because it was as reliable as my old Ranger, which wasn't very reliable at all. It wouldn't have to be an official distribution, but wouldn't it be great if it was? Ford Linux, emphasis on secure embedded transaction systems. Direct competition with Microsoft in the market...and Linux on the dashboard of Fords, Cougars, Volvos, Jaguars...
And why is it so strange that Ford should make software? GM owns an insurance company and a bank. GE owns a damn TV network. Hell, this company we just partnered with is somehow owned by Niagra Mohawk, the power company responsible for the northeastern blackout last month. Their "core competency" may be automotive design, but if you've got a massive team of hackers tapping away at infrastructure code already, you might as well sell it. Use your name to take it to Joe Nascar's Dell...
Hey freaks: now you're ju
It's interesting to think of what the reaction of the man who poularized the automotive assembly line would think of Open Source. On the one hand he was a big fan of the Nazis, but his five dollar work day was viewed by many as blatant socialism.
He'd probably be okay with Open Source. The associations may seem distasteful to many, but perhaps that's not such a bad thing.
Look. I've been a non-IT person for about two years now. I know that's not so long compared to others, but it's one hell of an ego-blaster to me.
I want back in because I know I am one of the actually "tallented" ones and not just another "career seeker" trying to earn 60k+ for doing what is perceived as little to nothing. Back in the day, it took a really twisted individual to understand these computer systems and now it seems like everyone's an IT specialist.
Fortunately, most of these people are pretty worthless even if their resume looks pretty good. When I mention Linux to these people, they balk as if to say "Keep that Linux thing AWAY from me!!!" Some of these people are actually pretty smart folks themselves. That leaves companies to shop for people with actual Linux skills and experience.
With luck and positioning, they might be shopping for me soon. Here's to hoping! I'm ready to get out there and help the world to change and I've got the experience and resume to prove it. (In the last 3 IT jobs I had, I got to deploy and maintain Linux servers and technologies both as servers [ROCK Solid] and in product development.) I'm not afraid of this "new thing" like the rest of the Microsofties... still... now's a good time to pray... and plan.
What should I do next to get myself ready should the revolution come in quicker than expected?
That's certainly something Henry Ford would have liked.
Hundreds of coders working for the Ford software infrastructure, and Ford doesn't have to pay any salaries.
Well! Listen up, you jobless US programmers. Since your job has been offshore-outsourced, you do have some spare time! And what could be a better way to show your patriotism than to help the american industry increase their profits. Develop free Linux software!
Probably not SCO!!
Ford! You're turning into a penguin.
Regrettably, this argument doesn't work.
1) The client machines are remaining Windows boxen.
2) There is no reason your Linux server cannot file serve windows/office files.
3) Ford is not going to make a change like this and suddenly require all their supplies to conform to their technology decision.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d Capitalization really works: i helped my uncle jack off a horse
We have 1000's (yes Thousands) of servers internal to Ford. Only a handful run Linux (like some clusters for CAE analysis). Ford has corporate licenses with Sun, IBM and Dell. Each provides thier standard OS with thier servers. So there is Solaris, WinXP, Win2K, WinNT4.0, AIX, HP/UX, etc... Some ignorant fool must have wrote the article....
Do you even know what the EAL levels mean??? I'll bet any amount of money you don't. Especially since you're touting an EAL4 piece of software as being better than EAL2 piece of software. You see EAL4 means an audit of your OS design methodology, the software itself is never tested by anybody except the developer at this level. That's right, the software itself need never even be booted up for an EAL4 certification. So you cannot infer that an EAL4 certified piece of software is provably and certifiably superior to an EAL2 piece of software because that's not a part of the certification process at that level, it only certifies the development methodology and documentation.
Now, you want to impress me, show me an EAL7 certified operating system (ie. formally verified design and tested). It's gonna be hard though because there are none yet.
Here, read this.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
is there any confirmation beyond the Sunday Scotsman? Second, Ford is killing their Unix stuff in favor of Linux? So why does MS care again? Sure, it would have been a nice win on the server side, and I'm glad to see it happening, but aren't some of us getting a little too excited about this?
Would having a company the size of Ford bring even more developers to the Linux community? If they were using Windows, they had a reason (duh), and that reason was the application(s) that they used. If those applications ran in Windows, they might need to be ported over to Linux. Unless, like an above post mentions, they're OS-independent applications, but even so, new applications they make might be written for the Linux OS. This could bring a whole lot of developers into the Linux community who previously hadn't taken the step...
" . . . somewhere in the snows of Redmond
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant Antarctic bird. . . "
--- With thanks to W. B. Yeats.
this
I think it is more likely that Ford would just have the bothersome people at SCO whacked.
From my dealings with Ford IT in the past, I'd characterize them as more "forward looking" than a lot of other large companies I've dealt with, when it comes to IT. Back when I was helping with their initial deployment of NetWare 4.0, (4.00), they were then evaluating Linux, this was back when we used to download floppy images to create an install-set. (1994, 95-ish?) I'm glad something came of it.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
It's about time Ford finally does something right! Maybe now the reliability of the cars will increase along with their computing system. :)
# fuser -v
#
My impression is that SuSE and Red Hat are the two largest commercial installation. The ranking on distrowatch measures only the web hits per day for each of the distros. Of course you could roughly equate hits/day with downloads/day but that doesn't include installation by disk.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Ford is not in the computer business.
Why is the Scotsman the only news site running this story? Why can't I find a Ford press release on this topic?
As much as I'd love to believe it, right now it says "hoax" to me.
Anyone have links to other sources?
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Why does anyone trust the engineering expertise at a company that brought us cars that explode when rear-ended (Pintos), SUVs with tires that explode during normal driving (Explorers), and now Jaguars? Celebrating Ford's choice of Linux is like being really happy that Michael Jackson shares your taste in fashion.
What a relief.
... even if Ford DOES expect to get an SCO license (and they must consider that to be a possiblity), it means it's STILL less expensive than MS.
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
> Most new, non-game applications these days are written for the Web.
;-)
> This way, any platform can connect to the application and run it the same way as anyone else would
> on a Palm Pilot or Pocket PC or Linux or Solaris or Windows or whatever.
Maybe, but that hardly affects the decision what OS to run today because of the long lifecycles for business apps.
VW, for example, is also planning to migrate to linux for the servers in their dealerships.
In the smaller ones, they will replace 286 systems with 1 Megabyte of Ram (Nixdorf Quattro 8870/25) running a proprietary Nixdorf OS with applications programmed in "Business Basic". I know one place where the server was installed in 1987 - initially with 8" floppies and two 20 Meg harddisks.
They have now upgraded to 5 1/4" floppies and a single 130 Meg harddisk.
Unlike MS-DOS 5.0, the OS is still supported !
The server is running the accounting and the programs for spare parts. You can either use Nixdorf Terminals or Terminal Emulators on PCs for the clients.
They now have an emulator ready (I am not sure if for the Basic-Interpreter or the whole NIROS-OS) so they are ready to move to linux !
I would bet that the by the time the last non-Web Application is rewritten, you will be commuting to work in a flying car
A Sun article says "When it comes to business relationships, the one between Sun Microsystems, Inc. and Ford Motor Company has always been solid." (yeah, I heard that with Firestone too--"solid" :-).
Anyway, I wonder if this Linux move was at Sun's expense or was it in another area?
1) The Register article states "But presumably there are still going to be Windows clients in there"
the scotsman.com does not specify.
But yes, the assumption could easily be made that they will remain windows on the client side.
2) I made no mention that Linux was incapable of this. In fact, I know first hand the opposite is quite true.
3) Yes they can, I've been dealing with automakers for a few years now (mainly imports), and there has been many instances of interfaces for communication being changed completely with little notice as well as compltely droping functionality for extended periods of time. Automakers are not IT companies and it shows.
The fact remains that a very large company is switching many of it's significant systems to an open platform. An example of what this could mean, is "DCS" (the system used to transfer info to/from dealers about stock, pricing, sales, etc.).
They won't be releasing specs for a windows only way of accessing the system, most likely it will be a well tested interoperable system. And not some damn DLL with examples in VB.
What about GM?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Where is your information that shows there are not steep cliffs along this inlet? The photo can't show the whole thing.
...
The linked article is woefully short on p[articulars. How can anyone really craft a reasoned opinion based upon that article. There is no mention of the systems that are being replaced, nor how many linux systems are being put in. The article was bereft of any real details. Is this a Linux for Unix swap? How many systems? What will each of those systems be doing? Are mission critical apps, like ERP, financials and HR going to actually be running on Linux? Or is Linux going to be dropped in as a low/mid-range system for authentication, file and print sharing? But I know the majority of the posts here, without even reading them are going to be: Yeah! Linux beats out M$! Bah!
According to this article at NewsForge, the Ford move to Linux is untrue.
-- snip --
Joan Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology, had this statement to make late this afternoon when I called her at her Detroit office about a story being reported that Ford was moving to Linux.
Witte said "Like any other company, Ford Motor is looking at Linux, primarily in the application space. We presently have an enterprise-wide agreement with Microsoft to handle our collaborative solutions. We aren't contemplating using Linux in this area, and don't contemplate doing that in the foreseeable future."
-- snip --
I've always been a Ford fan. Not too excited of what they've been doing lately, but I'm a loyal customer still. So does that mean that Linux is First On Race Day?
;)
Being a BSD guy, that just sounds wrong. Wait, Linux is Dying! Ah, now that's better. Alhtough, I really shouldn't bring myself down to the *BSD trollers level. Anyway, it's good that a large organization such as Ford is switching to Open Source. It might help the Open Source community as a whole somehow.
I just hope that Ford has some good admins though, so that they don't get rooted often. Seems that they'll be using Redhat, which isn't very secure out of the box, therefore they'll need capable admins of streamlining a Redhat installation and making sure it's secure by closing off uneeded ports and stuff.
I wish Ford all the luck. I wish they'd give me an Eddie Bauer Expedition or Mach 1 too.
Slashdot, now cleansed for the sarcastic-impaired.
I was waiting 6 hours for this article to come up. After first break in my morning CompSci class, the instructor comes in and told me that a friend just e-mailed him about Ford switching to Linux. "Yeay"
I still won't buy a ford.
great, these people will be using Linux desktops
It doesn't actually say "desktop" anywhere in the article. It's unclear to me if this is a server or desktop switchover.
Are they really willing to part with Word, PowerPoint, Excel, etc? It's great if they are, but I'm not convinced yet.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
You don't get it. If Ford start using gnumeric it'll be Microsoft Office that "only" hits 99.99% compatibility with gnumeric - Ford is the 800lb gorilla that can make all its business partners use whatever software it likes - heck, Ford can probably make its suppliers' CEOs belly-dance naked in front of the board for a chance to remain a supplier...
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
...we made a few edits.
Unlocking the doors, starting the engine and driving away would not require a key unless you were the owner of the car. Complete strangers would be able to drive your car without even getting into it, even if you already happened to be driving the car at the time.
Changing your clothes too drastically between drives would require you to get a new key from the car manufacturer.
Looking at a road sign while driving would get you arrested if the message on that sign is considered "intellectual property".
Driving would eventually become very hazardous as the usage of "pop-up billboards" became more prevailient.
Any disassembly, reverse engineering, removal of tires or checking "under the hood" of your car would be a violation of law. Especially if something on the car doesn't work.
Towing of dead cars would not be permitted. Owners of cars that don't work would be told to drive that car to the nearest dealership. Once you've finished pushing it there, you'd discover that the mechanics at that dealership don't work for the dealership, nor the car manufacturer, and in fact, aren't actually mechanics. They'd ask you if you tried re-starting the car, ask you to remove then reinstall the ignition system, then they'd mumble something about "escalating to level 2 support the next day." Four days later, "level 2 support" would contact you, and tell you the problem is with the place where the car died, not with the car itself. Meanwhile, your car would still not work.
You wouldn't own the car. You'd have a non-exclusive license to go places.
You'd need to apply Patches to your tires on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis.
Driving or Using the car in a manner not explicitly authorized by the car's manufacturer would violate the DMCA.
Driving a car not from your state would violate the car manufacturer's DMCA-enforced "regionalization" rights.
Driving your car out of state, and putting gas in your car from the place you're going to would also violate the DMCA-enforced "regionalization" rights.
After 5 years, the car manufacturer would no longer supply any parts, service, or support. Aftermarket parts would never be allowed, as they would violate copyright. Car manufacturers would force gasoline manufacturers to "upgrade" their fuel products in such a way that they would no longer work well with your car, if at all. Fixing your car to work with these new fuels would violate copyright.
Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought "CarNT," but then you would have to buy more seats.
Car manufacturers would not be required the deliver the actual car you agreed to buy. You would not be allowed to review the actual car you'll receive until after you have paid to receive it. Specific features and options, such as color, year, make, model, and the presence of a steering wheel or brakes, could be omitted and / or changed by the manufacturer so long as the resulting car "performs substantially in accordance with the accompanying written materials" that will be in the glove-box of the car you eventually get. The car manufacturer would not be obligated to fix anything not "substantially in accordance" with those materials, which describe the car as "a thing that might have at least one wheel."
Car manufacturers would have the right add, change, or remove the features of your car at any time. Every two days, you'd get into your car and something would be different or missing... and something new that you didn't want would be there.
Installing an aftermarket radio into your car would give the radio manufacturer the right to use your car at any time, for any purpose it wishes. Most radios would spend more time telling eveyone else who you are, where you've been, and what you've been saying than they would spend playing music. If the wishes of the radio manufacturer happen to violate the terms of use required by the car manufacturer, both parties sue you for violation of usag
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
Newsforge reports is reporting that this story is untrue. Sad but, as I suspected.
Nah, Microsoft's been using Linux for ages.
has anybody come up with a /. anti-MS pro-linux article generator web page?
Ah, have any /.ers out there ever looked under the hood of a Ford automobile lately?
The ease of repair, and even basic maintainance, for a Ford is much more difficult, when compared to other domestic car brands, and I'd imagine their OS, if designed in-house would be similarly difficult to use. I work in a garage, and we hate to work on Fords, because they're so hard to work on.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
To all those responses about "Finland doesn't have fjords, waa waa waa", if you're going to be all pedantic about it (and entirely miss the joke), how about: "Linus Torvalds is from Europe, right? The new motto for Linux could be ..." blah blah blah. Fucking whiners.
"Ford Move to Linux Not True". It quotes Joane Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology.
Joan Witte, Communications Manager for Ford Motor Information Technology, had this statement to make late this afternoon when I called her at her Detroit office about a story being reported that Ford was moving to Linux.
Witte said "Like any other company, Ford Motor is looking at Linux, primarily in the application space. We presently have an enterprise-wide agreement with Microsoft to handle our collaborative solutions. We aren't contemplating using Linux in this area, and don't contemplate doing that in the foreseeable future."
Regarding the source of the rumor, Witte said "I'm not sure where they got the info from, but I'd like to know."
If you haven't looked at Linux lately, look again!
Or you could go to the linux counter, and see that SuSE is behind Red Hat, Debian, Mandrake and Slackware.
I know, lies, damn lies, statistics and all that, but let's face it, when people think of Linux, SuSE doesn't exactly spring to mind.
#start
as per this little script, and I'm good to go. You still have to run Firestarter from an xterm su'd to root, but now it works.
I often ALT-F2 and start wvdial and Firestarter there, then logout. That way, you have to #firestarter --start, and get no GUI, but when you return to ALT-F1, and #start, none of the wvdial or firestarter stuff gets in your way, it's already done. I agree, XP is too expensive, and requires new hardware, but to be fair, I had the same experience with Redhat 9, got turned down without clear reason by RHL 9's installer. That's why I like Debian, but I still dual boot Win98, too.
Interesting. I think Ford used to use Multics, which is in many ways the progenitor of Unix.
Does your shop use SwiftSend? Those guys might be helpful with advice how to move to an all Linux shop.
According to a story on NewsForge, it's not quite true (yet)
There are two kinds of sysadmins: paranoids and losers. I'm both kinds.
He meant to say "built Fnord tough."
There was a time when DOS/Windows was so complex an unreliable that I was able to make a living consulting to local businesses. Now with the ease of installation of software and Linux(tm), I am out of a job.
But that's ok with me: Windows frustrations aged me beyond my years. My days of Windows Network Explorer blowing-up when copying across a LAN are over. No more re-installs every few months. Just install Linux and send the bill....
Microsoft is going DOWN!!! with a capital D!!!
How about "Fortune 5" - I think they're #4.
Because combining a company "that brought us cars that explode when rear-ended (Pintos), SUVs with tires that explode during normal driving (Explorers), and now Jaguars" with a company that brings us crashing computers (Microsoft) would be disaterous. Using Linux would at least guarantee that the critical systems would be up and running!
It's in Finland. This is a very flat country, no steep cliffs along there.
j pg
Salmi means inlet. If anyone here thought it was a Fjord, then it would be "Vehmasvuono". Besides it's veeery small.
http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/images/finland.
Parts on the upper left are northern coast of Norway, those fsckin' HUGE fissures reaching tens of kilometers to inland (into the middle of scandic mountains) are fjords. See anything even remotely resembling those in any part of Finland (for the clinically stupid, that's the part in dark green)? Thought so...
Some alternate slogans for Ford:
I listed the original slogan, then the alternate for you all to enjoy...
Built Ford Tough - "Built Linux Tough"
Quality is Job 1 - "Clustering is Job 1"
Have you driven a Ford lately? - "Have you driven a Penguin lately?"
If you haven't looked at Ford lately, look again. - "If you haven't looked at RedHat lately, look again."
Everything we do is driven by you. - "Everything We Do is Backed By Linux."
Ford has a better idea. - "Linus has a better idea."
There's a Ford in your Future. - "There's a Penguin in your Ford."
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
Largo FL replaced a Unix terminal system with Linux and is also a big Citrix WinFrame shop. They only have a couple dozen users anyway.
I was on the Ford global Exchange project from 1998 to 2000. We converted Ford's mail system from PROFs to Microsoft Exchange. On over 250,000 machines. Most of those machines now use Office 2000 (or prehaps office XP now). There is a wide range of operating systems on the desktop at Ford. I personally worked on Windows 95, Windows NT, Unix, Linux, and OS2 machines.
1. At least 90% of the IT staff at Ford are outsourced. Very very few IT workers are actually Ford employees.
2. Ford doesn't typically support dealers machines in any way. There is a whole seperate system there from what is used in the offices and factories.
3. Each part of their network is run by a seperate company. When I was there HP ran their network and servers and Compuware was the source of most of their IT workers. The Exchange project was being handled by Compaq. The Machines themselves were being handled by Dell.
4. From a mail standpoint alone I can't see them going to Linux anytime soon. They have at least 200,000 machines that rely on MS Outlook.
5. They have other systems which typically take care of supplier communications. MS Office interoperablity would not be that much of a factor, but it would be pretty annoying.
I've always heard he stopped writing it because it was no longer fun for him, and he didn't want the latter days of C&H to be comparable to the latter days of, say, Garfield (which lost its status as my favorite cartoon long ago) or Peanuts.
Good for him, if it's true. I think he stopped exactly when he should have. Good for him, also, for not trying to pull a Disney with merchandise.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
but why should you hope?
they want updates. Redhat keeps track of what needs updates. That's what you pay for.
I mean, who cares about the distro... I want the email telling me that wuftp is FUBAR and I need a patch (not to mention I need to turn off wuftp in general).
Wouldn't it be ironic if these GPL companies like RedHat actually turn out to be the wealthy behemoths the counter-culture derides thirty years from now.
You idea that the GPL does not allow profit is like saying that companies cannot profit when they share infrastructure... like the national highway system.
-pyrrho
"Ford, you're turning into a pengiun. Stop it."
Edith Keeler Must Die
Ford announces a price increase of $699 on all new models.
From my cousin:
Fucking Out Right Dangerous..
Slashdot is like Playboy: I read it for the articles
... well done, you truly have achieved master status. I bow to you.
-pyrrho
Some of our closing docs are delivered via SwiftView. I appreciate the tip, but I've got beefs with SwiftView too (I have to have a special print driver set up & tweaked just for SwiftView.)
Seriously, thanks though.
--J(K) DOS is like Unix in exactly the same way that a pinto is like an aircraft carrier.
Because combining a company "that brought us cars that explode when rear-ended (Pintos), SUVs with tires that explode during normal driving (Explorers), and now Jaguars" with a company that brings us crashing computers (Microsoft) would be disaterous.
You missed my point: If Ford's engineers are that incompetent, why would you assume that they made the right choice in operating systems? As I said before, being pleased that Ford engineers agree with you about Linux is like being pleased that Michael Jackson agrees with you about fashion.
but at least it doesn't make it look like Watterson himself sold out... with it printed on kids sheets and the like.
though now I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about because I'd be buying those sheets, the mugs, the t-shirts....
-pyrrho
...It's just as true today as it was seven years ago.
If they were as incompetent as you claim, they would have gone out of business long ago.
n/t
>I think he would vehemently disagree with the assertion that the bootleg stuff is in the spirit of Calvin & Hobbes.
yes, I overspoke it.
thanks for the link.
I can't wait to see something from him in another medium. The guy is a genius. I don't mean just a cartoonist genius... but an actual genius.
-pyrrho
I use Linux as my primary desktop at work (sys admin - mostly Unix, but a few Windows boxes). I can do pretty much everything I need to do on Linux, with the help of Crossover Office for Office apps and email (Lotus Notes). However, we recently purchased a raritan telereach console/switch system. THE big selling point was a web interface. Too bad they didn't bother to mention those pesky ActiveX/OCX details. Pretty much the only reason I keep a Windows box on my desk as well.
You can do a network install. Not quite as good as having access to ISOs, but then if you have no highspeed Net access, you ain't gonna be downloading ISOs.
This can easily be done using a web server serving up the code and a browser handling the output. Coldfusion, PHP, hell even good old perl all can deal with this.
So you're *less* supported in the Enterprise with .NET? That's unfortunate, one of the things MSFT has (I thought) improved is it's enterprise capabilities, with the realization that not all customers can go to a 100% MSFT infrastructure, so they made their stuff (.NET) easier to work with, ostensibly with their web services push, xml etc.
so no big improvement, instead a step back to more, closed source, proprietary, solutions that leave the customer stuck?
Any option to take a look at other loan origination software, since it's likely to be quite a change from VB (or whatever) to .NET anyway, i.e. a total rewrite, so you're basically changing software whether you thing so or not.
And Sweden has fjords- So the joke stands. No doubt not as spectacular as the ones in Norway or elsewhere..
In a major financial market data vendor. I am no longer working with them. It took me about five years to migrate most of the items. BTW, I am seasoned Unix person--whether it is linux today or finux tomorrow. I could have had done it either way. My motivation was 1. Sun was keeping us hostage. 2. Sun lied about memory failure problem--Enterprise Level--you NEVER lie. 3. IBM did a convincing presentation and they stood behind it. 4. INTEL was getting much faster CPUs than Sun 5. And there is something call Linux came into being which works 6. Our VP was behind this--not the stupid middle managers. He gave me the green light. It was interesting and I believe very few people we have in this community who has gone through a planning to execution of Linux migration on the core business activity in Financial industry. It was good the only a few of us actually knew what was going on--rest of them just bugged us in the meetings ... but it was pain.
In the level of effort,
Technology = 10%
Planning = 40%
Dealing with stupid people who is neither technical nor financial = 50%
- People who believe other people have no right to live, got no right to live ...
Does this mean that IBM's Linux advert did had its effect...regardless whether this story is true or false?
Carpe Diem: Seize The Day!
Nope. He is a Swedish-speaking Finn, ie. he belongs to the 6 % minority in Finland (heck, why do you think he'd otherwise speak perfect Finnish too?). In case you didn't know; Swedish is an official language in Finland due to that - ie. it has the very same status as Finnish (education, public services, everything is available in Swedish too). The minority is, however, not evenly distributed - most of it lives in southern and western Finland (ie. near the coasts, in the Helsinki area it's 15 %). A funny fact is that the world's most Swedish speaking municipality (called Korsnas) is actually located in Finland - all municipalities in Sweden have so many foreigners that the one in Finland has a higher percentage of Swedish-speakers. In case you speak Swedish: municipality = kommun
Karma. Moderation. Is my
Wouldn't surprise if they did move alot of their systems to Linux.
They where originally a Unix shop. Then about 3 years ago they went M$ as their strategic OS (ie all the desktops include CAD got moved + alot of the back end systems).
From the rumour I heard they got very badly burned by whole thing. I hear its working reasonably well now all their admins have got things bedded down, but it's still using more IT people than before!
Perhaps they've just seen the light of costs going from *nix to M$ or are doing due diligence of looking at alternatives, perhaps as a barganing chip like the UK govmnt did with their licence negotiations???
The ease of repair, and even basic maintainance, for a Ford is much more difficult, when compared to other domestic car brands, and I'd imagine their OS, if designed in-house would be similarly difficult to use. I work in a garage, and we hate to work on Fords, because they're so hard to work on.
It's not the ease of repair that's the problem, it's the frequency. When I worked in a shop, we did't bitch about how hard HOndas were to work on, because we didn't get many of them. On the other had, when it was cold and rainy, and very few customers, we were happy that Ford was able to provide us with a steady revenue stream, even at Christmas time.
Like what I said? You might like my music
In other news, DaimlerChrysler has a press release saying that they are switching all of their servers to *BSD.
Shortly after, pundits everywhere declare "Dodge is dying".
Of historic significance, though, Yahoo! has run on FreeBSD for ages, and they've been dying for ages too. Coincidence?
Like what I said? You might like my music
How would you propose that I tell my clients that they must not don't sell me heavily macroed MS Office documents that I cannot open with "open office" because I'm a cheapskate who can't bother to buy and install MS Office to do business with them?
Like this.
Like what I said? You might like my music
Yeah, right. Like hell I'd use that. They'd be former clients after that rant. They themselves thrive on proprietary protocols, software and tamper-proof embedded systems.
BOO! TERRO
If they were as incompetent as you claim, they would have gone out of business long ago.
Why do you claim that firms with engineering incompetence would have gone out of business? Does that mean that you think that Microsoft's engineering is good? They are not only in business, but are the largest software firm in the world.
You seem to think that the average consumer can make an intelligent decision when it comes to buying a complex piece of technology. They cannot. In general, their decisions are based on stupid shit like styling, color, advertising, and image. That's why there are so many four cylinder, front wheel drive, economy cars with wings on the back. It's why there are so many crappy sounding boom boxes covered with chrome and lights. Those customers keep incompetent engineers employed.
Just like BMW
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
PS I also think Porsche deserves microsoft. Look at their new cars. They look like $hit.
Yeah, right. Like hell I'd use that. They'd be former clients after that rant. They themselves thrive on proprietary protocols, software and tamper-proof embedded systems.
Good to see you read the whole page. I am filled with respect for your open mind.
Like what I said? You might like my music
Ford is a big Sun/IBM shop. I worked for a company that made the CAD/CAM system that Ford used. They have a lot of Sun and IBM machines just to run that. The computers were tied into some M$ but we did work in IRIX and ported to Solaris and IBM. I think they became a big Java shop as well.
This is more than likely a loss for Sun than M$.
- be connected to a server on the internet
- alraedy have a machine running locally as a server and boot server
Not very likely for the average home user who wants to try it out. That's why SuSE sux (never mind that I tried out 8.2 pro and it sucked balls also - not just my opinion - had a Windopes user truy it, and he wasn't impressed either).Many large companies are taking a hard look at Linux.
A Linux desktop is not in the near future, but it is being looked at. There are to many dependencies on the "Empire" to switch the desktop.
File servers, print servers and web servers are prime candidates to bring Linux in.
Even in the server space, a complete switch to Linux is not being considered. There are to many legacy applications that would make it too costly to migrate. Instead the strategy is to migrate servers so that doing so cuts cost through resource consolidation. The Linux servers are not just replacing MS, in many instances they are replacing Solaris, HPUX and AIX.
IBM has been pushing these ideas for a while now. Sooner or later global companies, like Ford, will listen. Especially when the proposal mentions cost cuttings. With the current state of the global economy, I would not be suprised if other companies follow Ford in deploying Linux as a strategic solution.
Ask yourself - is it the engineers that are incompetent?
I don't mean to jump on the corporate management-bashing bandwagon, but I'd bet the real problem is cheapskates at the higher levels. I'd bet the engineers have wanted to make cooler cars for years, but they don't have the budget.
Case in point: the new Thunderbird had the V-8 from the Lincoln LS, DETUNED. Why was it detuned? Probably because some moron executive in Lincoln didn't want any run of the mill Ford to compete with the LS. As a result, the Thunderbird's performance can't hold a candle to that of the LS, which itself isn't a standout in that price range. The Thunderbird's now being discontinued for lack of sales. Big surprise.
is a demented field of cock-thinking.
But I can't do that, because there are no Calvin underoos.
poor guy... it's social skills dude.
-pyrrho
Ask yourself - is it the engineers that are incompetent?
I just did as you suggested and I answered myself "yes." Cheap is one thing. Badly designed is another. It's no cheaper to make a dash where the controls don't fall to hand. There is no cost savings realized from bad ergonomics. Nor is there a cost savings to be realized from making a car hard to service.
Case in point: the new Thunderbird had the V-8 from the Lincoln LS, DETUNED. Why was it detuned?
There can be many reasons. Ford might not have wanted to have the car viewed as, and compared to, performance cars. They might have had discussions with insurance companies and, like Mazda, Suzuki, and others, detuned the engines to keep the insurance costs down. They might have detuned the engine to produce a more pleasing torque curve. It could be because the body lacked the stiffness to survive long-term with a high-horsepower V8 trying to twist it around the driveshaft. It could have been because they felt that its basic chassis performance was not up to handling that much power. Or it could be just as you surmised.