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And they did come out with a wireless unit later, the NES Satellite http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/peripherals/nessatellite.html Takes six C batteries :) (or was it D?...) Parents still have one. Works great. Just don't walk in front of it when my dad is trying to get that L block into place.

If you want to be uber-pedantic, so did the SEGA Genesis, the SNES, the NES(well...almost), the Atari 2600 and the Intellivision.

Funny thing about this "computer" is I actually bought one of these 3 years ago at a local general merchandise store (like Family Dollar) in the US. Think I spent $20 and it it broke within a hour. Keyboard was cheap junk and nothing worked right. The "99,999 programs" is actually closer to 99 programs but 100 variations each with different colors.

So this really isn't a "$12 MIT Computer" considering you can buy these at any cheap general store. I had no idea at the time that someday someone at MIT would stumble across it and plaster their name all over it and make /. headlines.

Here's some more links to the "$12 MIT Computer":
http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones-A-M.html
http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/images/consoles/gamestar_fun_educator-box.jpg

Funny thing about this "computer" is I actually bought one of these 3 years ago at a local general merchandise store (like Family Dollar) in the US. Think I spent $20 and it it broke within a hour. Keyboard was cheap junk and nothing worked right. The "99,999 programs" is actually closer to 99 programs but 100 variations each with different colors.

So this really isn't a "$12 MIT Computer" considering you can buy these at any cheap general store. I had no idea at the time that someday someone at MIT would stumble across it and plaster their name all over it and make /. headlines.

Here's some more links to the "$12 MIT Computer":
http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/pirate-clones-A-M.html
http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/pirate/images/consoles/gamestar_fun_educator-box.jpg

The ROLL N ROCKER!
Unfortunately, it looks like this thing reeks of ass, although luckily without personal experience I can't quite confirm it.

Never heard of that. Sounds interesting. Any sources?

Even so, as I said, all of the things you've mentioned happened a long time ago, mostly during the NES and SNES era.

here and here.

The last one being fairly comprehensive. I personally don't see whats wrong with most of the suits but they have some parity with Lik Sang in my eyes.

Also the N64 was as much hubris as the PS3. They were one of the primary manufactures of game carts so they profited more from using the carts rather then CD's since they didn't press CD's. Even the mini-Rom employed in the GC. While PS3 goes bluray to help Sony's format and line Sony's pockets with extra licensing fees.

Much of the criticism of Sony and MS that works it's way into Console rants is also old news. Ninetendo is like a friend of mine. When she was young thin and attractive she was a total bitch. But in the last 10 years she's gotten fat, learned her lesson, and has become a genuinely good person. Nintendo was a bully, got smacked, learned their lesson. They've been good now. Give them 3 years and we may hear of Nintendo's root-kit equivalent.

Well, there is one game that does realistically simulate firing a weapon. Unfortunately it is so exclusive it makes halo 3 alpha testing pale in comparison. It would be the M.A.C.S. or the Multipurpose Arcade Combat Simulator, a marksmanship training aid developed for the Super Nintendo for use by the US Army. It is part of the M16 marksmanship training program and is specifically used for proper sighting and target acquisition (more info). Personally I didn't find it as useful as the dime and washer exercise, but then again my problem was trigger squeeze not sighting.

The powerpad has been out for the NES for a long time. http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/peri pherals/powerpad.html

http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/peri pherals/fcmodem.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famicom
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-famicom-acces sories

SNES: Huge Success
The Super Famicom (SNES) was designed around the 65816 processor initially to retain backward compatibility with the Famicom (NES). Although the systems used a different cartridge layout, adapters do exist.

Sega MegaDrive/Genesis: Huge Success
The Mega Drive 1 and 2 used a Z80 to retain backwards compatibility with the Mark III (Master System). Sega manufactured and sold a device called the Power Base Converter to retain compatibility. The Mega Drive 3 as well as other systems (Nomad, CDX) released at the end of the system's life did not have the Z80.

NES: Huge Success
Yep, the Famicom (NES) maintained backwards compatibility with all of Nintendo's existing multi-game cartridge based systems... meaning that there wasn't anything to maintain backwards compatibility with. Same with the original Playstation. Sony had nothing to be compatible with at that time.

Ah yes, found it. Looks like it's called the "Exertainment System"

Nintendo had a partnership with Lifetime Fitness where they produced exactly what you described.
As seen here
When Nintendo originally previewed they had hoped to sell it to gamers for about $200 for the unit, but whenever was said and done it ended up being a lot more (Like $600 I think for the bike and game?) So they made a single unit built for fitness centers and sold a few of them to baileys and the like.

Its too bad, because in typical Nintendo fashion they promised the moon. It was supposed to have 2 player battles on the home version, and up to 8 player races in the arcade/fitness center. Even including features like varying resistance for going up and down hills.
AFAIK, there was only ever a single player version released. Screen shot here.

they had on at the local gym when I was a kid, but the stupid thing was always being hogged when I got there, until eventually the thing just wore out, so I've never actually tried it.

How could anyone forget this little gem? Rock 'n Roller

DDR is probably the most recent thing I would classify as truly new.

DDR isn't actually new. There were games like that for the NES using the Power Pad, which is very much like the modern DDR dance pad, except that it was a 4x4 grid instead of the modern DDR 3x3 grid.

Now, obviously, they weren't quite as good as DDR and the music was NES music and there were no videos, but there WERE dancing games for the NES.

The most recent new game style I can think of is the first person shooter. Everything else has been done before, even everyone's favorite Katamari Damancy if you think of it as just a ball-rolling game.

I've found that parallel computing has provided an excellent means to avoiding obsolescence by allowing the creation of massive computers that have the potential to crush comparitively tiny, "modern" systems. While the prototype AppleCrate is just a small, tentative step in this direction, a future system comprising NES subprocessors in addition to the "Oregon Trail"-codenamed CPUs could spontaneously develop mech-transformative properties, allowing the weapon-aided destruction of systems not puny enough to be crushed by sheer mass.

Seriously, AppleCrate rules. Check it out. It is not much of a parallel computer since the nodes are, well, they're Apple IIs, and even if that wasn't a problem, I think I could outtype the interlink.

Try this link: http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/snes/his tory/snescdrom.html

Basically from what I remember (not necessarily in this article) Sony tried to force Nintendo to pay licensing fees for each console sold, and give them the rights to make their own console that would play the same games which Ninty would have no control over. But I'm a fanboy and may have twisted that up a bit in my head.

1) A internal HD.

Well, I guess this depends on how wide a net you want to cast.

PC's have used internal HD's for gaming purposes for years. Devices that allow you to copy memory card saves back and forth from PC HD's have been around a long time. The N64 had a disk drive of sorts. The PS2 has a hard drive available, though it's optional.

Nintendo's new console will not technically have a hard drive, but I believe they have said it will contain 512 MB of internal flash memory.

I have a very hard time finding the idea of an internal hard drive (in any of the consoles) to be innovative - at best, it's just trying to mimic a PC.

2) Xbox Live.

Again, while very nice, this is nothing you haven't been able to do with a PC for years. Not to mention the fact that the SNES and Genesis had an online gaming network back in 1995.

I will grant that XBox Live has better-than-average oversight and matchmaking features, but beyond that I can't say it's hugely amazing.

Now I know that everybody on Slashdot hates Microsoft and loves Nintendo, and therefore anything positive I say about Microsoft will probably be flamed in replies,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm trying to control myself here, and I would hope you don't see any of this as a flame.

At any rate, I would probably buy an XBox if it had more games worth playing. All I ever hear people gushing praise about is Halo, GTA, and a few other games....And it's just not enough to justify buying another console. The fact that the RPG selection is abysmal doesn't help either.

I find many rabid XBox supporters to be more annoying than the average console fanboy as well - i.e I don't #^&*$#A^*&ing care how awesome you all think Halo is, I DON'T LIKE IT. PLEASE LEAVE THE REST OF US HEATHENS TO OUR INFERIOR GAMES. THANK YOU.

but in my opinion the Xbox is the most innovative console to come out since the original Playstation. The fact that it also happens to have the best video and audio performance (in this generation) is just icing on the cake.

You're entitled to your opinion, and i'm entitled to mine.

Oh, also, Xbox is the first console to get adventure titles in... how long? Maybe not an "innovation," but certainly a selling point in its favor. I like adventure games.

Whatever makes you happy. Personally, I don't have much interest in adventure games - I bought a PS2 to go with my Cube so I could pig out on RPGs and strategy games.

I know that Nintendo is working on a new type of controller...

The heck with a new controller, I want Nintendo to bring back R.O.B.

Mine doesn't work anymore...

You left out the coolest Nintendo Product. R.O.B.

I remember the days when a SNES-CD drive was the dream. Oh wait, still is.

Curse you Sony! http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/snes/his tory/snescdrom.html

Not innovate? Nintendo is responsible for the D-Pad, Rumbling controllers, the Virtual Boy, the e-reader, wireless controllers for the NES, and the Game & Watch, among other things. Granted, not all of those were particularly successful, but they were innovative.

I loved my old powerglove. Now we just need someone to do an updated "ROB" and I'll be happy!

Let's see... there was the Famicom Modem. The Super Famicom Modem. The Satallaview and of course the X-Band Modem (which, admittedly, was not a Nintendo product and was also available on the Genesis). And of course the 64DD (which is what I believe these patents were filed for) connected to RandNet, which let them purchase/download games, use e-mail, and chat.

Let's see... there was the Famicom Modem. The Super Famicom Modem. The Satallaview and of course the X-Band Modem (which, admittedly, was not a Nintendo product and was also available on the Genesis). And of course the 64DD (which is what I believe these patents were filed for) connected to RandNet, which let them purchase/download games, use e-mail, and chat.

Let's see... there was the Famicom Modem. The Super Famicom Modem. The Satallaview and of course the X-Band Modem (which, admittedly, was not a Nintendo product and was also available on the Genesis). And of course the 64DD (which is what I believe these patents were filed for) connected to RandNet, which let them purchase/download games, use e-mail, and chat.

Let's see... there was the Famicom Modem. The Super Famicom Modem. The Satallaview and of course the X-Band Modem (which, admittedly, was not a Nintendo product and was also available on the Genesis). And of course the 64DD (which is what I believe these patents were filed for) connected to RandNet, which let them purchase/download games, use e-mail, and chat.

"Sexy as hell" my ass. That thing looks like it was designed by a ten-year-old still feeling nostalgic for his Nintendo games. Especially with those digital eyes -- when that thing blinks at me, I got flashbacks to R.O.B.

Put that in your living room, guys, and you're guaranteed to never have a girlfriend -- they won't be back for a second visit to your place after seeing kitsch like that pass for decor...

Well no, but Mario 64 pretty much defined what true 3D gaming is. It was a revolutionary game with actual three-dimensional control, not just nice 3d rendering with 2D movement.

I've been seeing innovative controllers on the PC since time immemorial (ranging from my old Thrustmaster F-16 to a bizarre turtle-device which lets you control games by tilting the shell) and of the recent console-based controller innovations (dance-mats, eye-toy, pop'n boards), none of the most notable have come from Nintendo.

Haha, that's funny. Let's see. Nintendo invented the d-pad. (They actually have the patent for it). Nintendo made the first joypad with shoulder buttons. (SNES). Nintendo made the first joypad with an analogue stick (Nintendo 64). Everyone else copied their ideas.

Oh and the dance-mats arent a new invention at all. Bandai made something very similar for the Famicom/NES in the 80's! It's called Family Fun Fitness.

see?

WRONG.

Midway did not censor MK2. Nintendo censored MK2.

This was the time when then senator Joe Lieberman and Herbert Kohl went on a quest to ban all offensive videogame content (citing games such as Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, etc.). Sega's response was to use a videogame rating board (ESRB), and Nintendo's approach was to remove all the blood. This was way before ESRB became a standard.

RE: SNES and Sega Genesis, it was a closer battle than you think. SNES did not CRUSH the Genesis, though it may have won by a small margin.

BTW, I used to work for Sega and now I work at Midway.

There are actually a few NES one-handed controllers to display.
Quickshot XII: The Joysticks of the NES age had both buttons accessible and you could play games with one hand. Unfortunally, directional controls are a PAIN with joysticks in most games.

Game Handler: I've never seen one of these before, but it obviously seems custom-made for the purpose of one-handed gameplay. Interesting design.

ASCII Stick L5: Scroll down a bit and you'll see it. It's held in your hand sort of like a hand-fan.

One Handed: Scroll down about half way and to the controller with the caption: "Looks like a freaking droid from Star Wars". This is the controller I originally posted the picture about. It's held sort of like a stopwatch.

Cool, no?

replying to my own post. whee! here's the URL http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/snes/per ipherals/controllers-specialty.html

You remember the Super GameBoy. Also, the GameCube can play GBA/GBC/GB games via an adaptor.

Backwards compatibility for the SNES was also available through a third party periphal. Also, Nintendo themselves released a very cool product called the Super GameBoy, which allowed the SNES to play GameBoy games in color, albeit still with a four-color palette.

new type of gaming coming of is NOT a video game, but robotic gaming

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these

I actually worked on the Life Fitness Excertainment system on a team which ported Speed Racer, Mountain Bike Ralley, Eurit! and a couple of other titles at Radical Entertainment in Vancouver, BC back in 1994-1995. I personally worked on Speed Racer the longest which would have been a pretty cool title if we'd ditched the side scroller (playing side scrollers on a fitness bike turns out to be kind of difficult for less coordinated people). We had some other problems with dealing with Life Fitness in that we wanted to create kick ass video games and they wanted all kinds of weird caloric scoring fitness crap which tended to not make for very good game play. I think this is going to be a problem which plagues any future fitness video games. Are you building it to be fun or are you building it to get into shape? The two are not necessarily orthoganol.

Even bigger that that issue for the Excertainment system though was the price.. I think they wanted something like $3500, which is a little steep for the average person.

Here's a site which explains a little more about it.

Article reminded me of this.

This has been done before, on a Nintendo Super NES!

Check out a page with some info here: Exertainment

Heck, you can even download the ROM and play it on the SNES emulator of your choice.

Actually, it was for the SNES.

>I'm all for companies clamping down HARD on people that make and sell illegal products which have the sole purpose of leeching off the success of those who actually do the legitimate, hard, creative work.

After reading what you've said, I still fail to see where these products should be illegal.

Suggesting modchips should be illegal because they may be used to pirate is silly. Turning it around you're saying that someone with the skill to reverse-engineer a system and make money doing it doesn't deserve to do it because a coder might get discouraged in making software. Funny thing is, this might be a good thing. Pressure needs to be put on what is clearly a broken system (the current model of software sales) to change it into a system that can generate money without limiting the rights of others to make money (hey, I'm not an economist, just a realist, I don't know how to fix the problem).

You know what, this happens in a lot of other industries. Example: 3rd party car parts. Guess what, when you buy one of these, your car company "loses" a sale, even though they originally put the effort in to develop the product. But you don't see anyone whining about that, however the effects of these third party parts is identical to the effects of a 3rd party modchip being used to pirate software: The original developer of a product (may) make less money.

Fortunately, we don't have laws that give people a right to make money in any capitalist country (beats me about China, though).

I'm all for companies making it easier for smart people to make a living by designing products that benefit the consumer.

Oh, here's an interesting fact: Chips that break console security actually _increase_ the diversity in software. Look up info about Tengen and their clone lockout chip. And, of course, the break Tengen had allowed all sorts of cool things. Camerica's Game Genie being one of them, IIRC, and another being cool things like clone Nintendos (pushing the price of the "real thing" back down to earth, and adding cool addons, like keyboards), and "1e6 in 1" game cartridges with 16 of each game using different colour palettes (all stupid, crappy games that totally sucked, for which the developers were the ones originally ripping off the consumers).

But, alas, people usually only think in the small, short term, which is developers getting the squeeze, and not the long term, which is competition and overall coolness.

Just my 2 cents.

>I'm all for companies clamping down HARD on people that make and sell illegal products which have the sole purpose of leeching off the success of those who actually do the legitimate, hard, creative work.

After reading what you've said, I still fail to see where these products should be illegal.

Suggesting modchips should be illegal because they may be used to pirate is silly. Turning it around you're saying that someone with the skill to reverse-engineer a system and make money doing it doesn't deserve to do it because a coder might get discouraged in making software. Funny thing is, this might be a good thing. Pressure needs to be put on what is clearly a broken system (the current model of software sales) to change it into a system that can generate money without limiting the rights of others to make money (hey, I'm not an economist, just a realist, I don't know how to fix the problem).

You know what, this happens in a lot of other industries. Example: 3rd party car parts. Guess what, when you buy one of these, your car company "loses" a sale, even though they originally put the effort in to develop the product. But you don't see anyone whining about that, however the effects of these third party parts is identical to the effects of a 3rd party modchip being used to pirate software: The original developer of a product (may) make less money.

Fortunately, we don't have laws that give people a right to make money in any capitalist country (beats me about China, though).

I'm all for companies making it easier for smart people to make a living by designing products that benefit the consumer.

Oh, here's an interesting fact: Chips that break console security actually _increase_ the diversity in software. Look up info about Tengen and their clone lockout chip. And, of course, the break Tengen had allowed all sorts of cool things. Camerica's Game Genie being one of them, IIRC, and another being cool things like clone Nintendos (pushing the price of the "real thing" back down to earth, and adding cool addons, like keyboards), and "1e6 in 1" game cartridges with 16 of each game using different colour palettes (all stupid, crappy games that totally sucked, for which the developers were the ones originally ripping off the consumers).

But, alas, people usually only think in the small, short term, which is developers getting the squeeze, and not the long term, which is competition and overall coolness.

Just my 2 cents.

Funny, I live near there, and I know just the place. The guy has a TV set and a bunch of Mega Joy 2 systems out. I tried it out once, it worked pretty well. I've seen him selling both the version with the light gun, and also the version without, so if you want to buy, check to see if it comes with a light gun (and dont forget to test it first!).

Incidentally, Multimedia 1 (on St. Marks btwn 2nd and 3rd) has a bunch of all-in-one systems, both legit and pirate (including the one this story is about). As usual, their prices are on the expensive side, but if you want to buy from a reputable place, it might be your only option. They don't list these on the web site for some reason -- if you don't live in NYC, try giving them a call or something.

And finally, here are a few links on NES/Famicom pirate systems: NES Player and Gamer's Graveyard.

Wow... they're resurrecting the XBAND Video Game Modem and Network!

It amazes me that companies like Catapult (XBAND), Mpath (Mplayer), and TEN never achieved much in the way of financial success, but somehow Microsoft believes it has the Midas touch. The only way this is going to work is the only way that pay-for-play games on the Internet have every worked: MUDs, MMORPGs, and the like.

Even the voice-with-the-game gimmick has been done before... and Roger Wilco didn't do so well either.

No. Nintendo is not a lesser evil.

http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/oddities /nintendosuits.html

It's amazing how Nintendo put enough thought into the development of the GameCube to make it keyboard ready.

All they need now is the ability to plug a tape drive into the keyboard, and they'll catch back up to where they were back in the early 1980's with the Famicom.

Who know, maybe even NS-HUBASIC (Nintendo, Sharp, Hudson) will be updated for the GameCube one of these days.... Okay, so probably not. The point stands, Nintendo tried the console-computer-entertainment-center thing way before PS2 or X-Box. This time around, don't count on seeing Gamecube try to pretend it's anything besides a game console.

The MSNBC article is about crappy games, and how they exist. There are crappy games. There have always been, and there will always be crappy games. Now that you can't develop them without a significant investment and a large team, there are fewer 'Bible Adventures' and 'Wally Bear and the No! Gang's, and no 'Tooth Protectors' at all, but there are crappy games of an entirely different sort.

Anyone who feels that games have gotten 'worse', without qualifying that statement in some way, is full of it, or is simply blocking out the part of their brain which held (or maybe has never heard of) the Wall Street Kid, Amagon, King of Kings, M*A*S*H, Vigiliante 8 parts 2 and 3, Mega Man 4, 5, and 6, Pac Man on the Atari -- the list goes on and on.

No one's saying that Monster Party and Burgertime and Utopia shouldn't get props. But there were over 600 carts released for the NES -- how many of them are you really pining after here?

I'm so sick of this discussion. Have you played Super Mario Brothers lately? It's one of the best platformers ever, no doubt, but it's over in 30 minutes. Games are different now than they were ten or fifteen years ago, and you can dislike what has changed about them, but 'better' or 'worse'? Those are awfully broad brushes. For every Blood Wake, there's a Halo, for every Mortal Kombat Advance, there's an Advance Wars, and for every Mall Tycoon, there's an Unreal Tournament. It's the way of the world. Some things are crap. And this is not a new condition, even in the gaming industry.

Now quit your whining and let me get back to my Sim Golf.

The other day my buddy took me out to the San Jose Berryessa flea market to show me some of these. I don't know what kind of breakdown we've had in customs, but it looks like more and more knockoff's are going to start pouring into the states. Although this piece of hardware isn't a knockoff, it shouldn't take too long for these to be snuck through customs.

And here's a bit of the promised info:

"2.2 SOFTWARE

NES Software consists of a PRG-ROM (Program ROM) which is the code area and a CHR-RAM (Character RAM) which is the pattern table.

Most games load themselves into the Lower PRG-ROM ($8000), using 32kb of
PRG-ROM space. The first game to use the entire PRG-ROM space is Super Mario
Brothers. However, all games with more than one (1) 16K bank of PRG-ROM load
themselves into $8000 as well. These games use MMCs (see section 2.5) to
address PRG-ROM past the 32K boundary, and to access more than 8K of CHR-RAM
simultaneously.

2.3 UNROM GAMES

Unrom games come with a built-in PRG ROM chip as well as a RAM chip for
memory storage. Such things as background and moving object characters for
the current area are stored in the RAM chip until needed. The Unrom also
was the first chip to expand the memory size of the NES games and were the
first to carry a feature known as bank switching for the games.

This effect allowed for many pages of information and to have serveral
programs on one chip. Back switching allowed for automatic switching between
multiple programs on one chip. Also, the maximum game page size was 8x16kb,
just like the MMC1 chip.

2.4 MEMORY MANAGEMENT CHIPS

MMC1 - The first and most used chip of all five. Many games like the Legend
of Zelda and Metroid use this chip because otherwise they would not
be possible. The MMC1 allows NES games to have the ability to scroll
vertically and horizontally at the same time on teh screen. The chip
also expanded the NES memory to allow for more, and larger game
worlds. The maximum game page size is 8x16kb.

MMC2 - This chip is only found in the US and European Mike Tyson's Punch-Out,
the Japanese version used a MMC4 chip. It was entirely used for the
purpose af allowing large characters to move on the screen. The chip
also allowed for you to see expression on an oponents face. This could
be a dropped jaw, blinking, shock, a wince, twitching, as well as hand
and feet movements. The game, because of all its different variations,
required a big memory boost which this chip allowed for. The maximum
game page size of this chip is 32x16kb. But why were they able to use
a MMC4 for the Japanese version then?, I dont know.

MMC3 - Second most used chip for NES carts allowed for many new game
innovations. The additions are; expanded memory and the use of split
screen scrolling in games. Games like Super Mario Bros 3 use this
chip. In SMB3 its used as a split screen between the playing field and
the status screen at the bottom of the screen. These games also has a
maximum game page size of 32x16kb, just as the MMC2.

MMC4 - ?

MMC5 - The newest of the MMC chips for the NES. The first game it was used
for was Castlevania 3: Draculas Curse. This chip has many nw and
expanded features that accompanied it. The MMC5 improved the battery
backup feature so you wouldent have to push reset when you turn off
the NES to prevent data loss. The chip also allows greater color
deffinition and partial screen scrolling (not locked like SMB3). It
is also a customized mathematics module that took much strain off the
CPU and took care of many tasks like the internal clock, and other
repetitive functions.

The MMC5 also aloowed a vertical split screen scroll which means you
can have a side bar of information while the scrolling action of
the game continues. The chip has a memory capacity of 8 Megs
(1,048,576 bits). Another MMC5 game, and probably the only one, is
Kirby's Adventure. A few games which this chip had a maximum game
page size of 64x16kb."

Grabbed this from http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/nesf aq3a.txt.