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Here is the link

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/

To list all of creative's products. Which one is right for you? A rough count gives me about 30 products + accessories.

I haven't played with a Zen Touch, but here's how you do it on the Micro:

System -> Player Settings -> TouchPad -> Sensitivity (High, Medium, Low)

According to the Zen Touch firmware page release 1.01.03 "improves the display order of the Touch Pad sensitivity settings," so there must be sensitivity setting buried somewhere.

If you've already tried that and the lowest setting is still too sensitive, maybe you should gather some like-minded people from the web (they're easy enough to find) and send some e-mails to Creative. It might not get them to pay attention, but it's worth a shot if you plan to use the Touch for a while longer.

If you put the two players side-by-side Creative has clearly mimicked Apples Ipod. Anyone remember the first generation Creative players? The thing looked like a CD player!

In a word: I wouldn't worry about it.

With no wireless and less space than a Nomad, I'm not surprised that most geeks consider the iPod to be "lame."

Well, don't forget their harddrive mp3 player.

Apple doesn't have to be first (though they sometimes are), Apple wants to be the best (and sometimes they are at that, too).

Sorry about the bad links. Nomad Muvo and Book Port

Um...the software has been on their nomadworld site for years. I have a the same player you have, and I have no clue where the original cd is, but I could download it from here: http://www.nomadworld.com/downloads/drivers/downlo ad.asp

I did finally upgrade to a Zen, which I'm using Gnomad2 to load from linux.

There is also the redchair software that is much better than the standard creative stuff.

I believe "apple fans" have a reason to fear iRiver and the Nomad Zen more then this.
since IMNSHO both of these give you far better bang for your buck, not to mention the iRiver has more features.

Just my two cents really.

I swear, the bigger the drive gets, the more words they tack on. But that's the widget I use. Granted, it's primary purpose is music, but the transfer capability is quick and handy.

Unfortunately, it requires special software for Windows. Apparantly there's software for Linux, but it's in early stages.

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_ZenXtra /

They don't sell one for $200, but they do sell one for $249. It's absolutely tiny, weighs nothing, and comes in five colors.

And yes, it is selling like hotcakes.

As far as why they're not selling a 15 gig white iPod, I'm sure there are a few reasons:

- 15 gig drives probably cost about the same as 20 gig drives.
- Offering two products which are very close in features tends to confuse the market.
- A 15 gig model that was much cheaper than the current 20 gig version would probably undercut the mini's market.

If you're so price-sensitive that you can't spring for the extra $49 that a mini would cost you, then probably:

- You shouldn't be spending money on a portable music player anyway.
- You should check out eBay.
- You might want to take a look at some cheaper knockoff devices.

Okay, so it's been tough, but you've finally managed to stop yourself from taking Dell up on its kind offer to crush your iPod into a thin paste in exchange for $100 off one of its own stellar music players. Good for you. Only now you're finding yourself tempted by those new players that Sony introduced yesterday-- in particular the NW-HD1 Network Walkman. As faithful viewer Mike Scherer pointed out, MacMinute reports that the NW-HD1 (catchy name) has a 20 GB hard drive, but weighs only 4 ounces-- almost thirty percent less than a 20 GB iPod, and only about half an ounce more than a miniPod with a mere 4 GB storage capacity. Trust us, size does matter, as through-the-roof miniPod sales will attest; Dell's player is a clunky slab by comparison, and when we had the misfortune to encounter a 40 GB Nomad Zen last weekend, we mistook the thing for a brick wrapped in tin foil.

Oh, but the temptation doesn't stop at size; whereas the iPod claims 8 hours of use per battery charge, the NW-HD1 boasts 30. What's more, since a 20 GB iPod goes for $399 and Sony's minuscule new player will sell for "less than $400", pricing will likely be a dead heat. So let's recap, here; for the same price as an iPod, Sony offers a smaller and lighter player with gallons more juice per charge, the same size hard disk, and-- did we mention this?-- the ability to store 8,000 more songs. Really! See? Apple claims its 20 GB iPod will put 5,000 songs in your pocket, while Sony's press release insists that the NW-HD1 will hold "up to 13,000 four-minute songs." No wonder you're feeling tempted.

Well, it's cold shower time, kiddies. First of all, any sort of song capacity comparison is a joke, since a 20 GB hard drive is a 20 GB hard drive. Sony's drives aren't enchanted by a dusting of magical pixie dust before leaving the factory or anything. (At least, if they are, you'd expect Sony to play that up as a differentiating factor.) The difference in numbers here is that Apple bases its song count on 128 Kbps AAC files, while Sony's tally assumes "songs recorded at 48 kilobits per second." Yes, 48 Kbps. Considering how many people whine that even 128 Kbps AAC files don't sound good enough, we're going to go out on a limb and assume that 48 Kbps songs in any format are probably going to sound like a portable handheld AM radio playing from the bottom of a well while a few dozen people pop bubble wrap nearby.

And here's the real deal-breaker: about that format? Turns out that Sony's decided to go with its proprietary ATRAC3 format... and nothing else. While Apple pushes AAC pretty heavily (it's the only thing it sells at the iTunes Music Store), at least the iPod can also play AIFF files, WAVs, the new Apple Lossless format, and probably most importantly of all, good ol' MP3s. If you get an NW-HD1, though, you'll have to transcode your entire music library into ATRAC3 before you can carry it around with you, and believe us when we tell you that you're not going to want to do that.

See, aside from the time you'd have to invest, there's the little matter of the fact that, quality-wise, the ATRAC3 format apparently sucks eggs whole through a Crazy Straw. For evidence, we point you towards the results of Roberto Amorim's l

I love my MuVo. It's small and works great with Linux. You can store any file on it, but only MP3 or WMA files show up in the song list. The MuVo NX and the MuVo TX look good too if you need more storage capacity.

I love my MuVo. It's small and works great with Linux. You can store any file on it, but only MP3 or WMA files show up in the song list. The MuVo NX and the MuVo TX look good too if you need more storage capacity.

I love my MuVo. It's small and works great with Linux. You can store any file on it, but only MP3 or WMA files show up in the song list. The MuVo NX and the MuVo TX look good too if you need more storage capacity.

Creative Labs to be specific Here

Right, because Sony, Pioneer, these kind of companies have no connection to DVD Video publishing, huh? And if they don't make the devices, capitalism dictates that someone else will step in and do as good a job, right? (No offense, but you're American, right?) Take a similar existing example: there's a huge demand for standalone video players with alterative codecs (DivX, XviD, Vorbis etc.) and packages (OGG, MKV). What's the capitalist response? The big players are not interested and the demand is (not) met by the Umax/Yamada player (and not a lot else), which sucks! It's not about 'them and us', not even about 'them, us and a third party' (RIAA), it's just about 'them' and their many and intertwined commercial interests...

Steve Jobs has been highly critical of iPod clones with video and gaming features

Why has it become such a common conception that any harddrive based mp3 player is an iPod knockoff? Last time I checked Rio "invented" the mp3 player (Oct 1998, 32MB PMP300), and Creative "invented" the harddrive subcategory (Aug 2000, 6GB NOMAD Jukebox). It took over a year after Creative, and 3 years after MP3 players first appeared for Apple to enter the game with the original iPod (Oct 2001, 5GB iPod). By that time Creative was already releasing second generation harddrive players with twice capacity as Apple's best ipod at almost the same price.

So obviously iPod had nothing to do with creating the harddrive player. Maybe everyone is copying the iPod look? A general examination of the market doesn't seem to agree with this. iPod has a unique style of smooth curves and controls that blend into the unit. It's coloration and texture make it look almost ceramic from a distance. Compare that with just about every other player on the market: Rubberized edges and buttons, contrasting colors like sharp blues and reds stripping plastic silver. Where as the iPod look is like a bar of Ivory soap, the rest of the market is flooded with devices that look like tiny boom boxes. The only device that seems to come close to iPods smooth colors is the original Nomad Jukebox, the very product the iPod was copying (even then the Nomad retains more of the mainstream consumer electronics feel with its metallic silver highlights). Even the iPod look and feel is basically confined to the Apple court. The navigation system, an evolution of Sony's jogdial thumb navigation, is patented, and the placement of controls below and screen above is nothing new (the granddaddy of all MP3 players used that arrangement). Everything about the iPod screams different (a good reason for its success).

The logic that just because the iPod has market dominance now means that all products that meet the same need are clones is silly. If that kind of crazy logic where true then every desktop OS would be a "clone" of Microsoft Windows, even Mac OS X.

Those URLs have spaces in it. These should work better (1,2)

Ok, we'll go over it again boys and girls. It's the market, the Mini isn't there to compete with the iPod. The Mini is there to compete against your $200-300 1gig flash player.

Actually, it competes with devices like the Rio Nitrus and the Creative Muvo2. You should at least try to be correct when you're going to be condescending. You didn't think Apple was the only company with access to mini hard drives, did you?


You probably think Firewire is useless too.

It is. (In the context of an ipod.)
USB2.0 is much more ubiquitous, and can already support more speed than the drive in an ipod can handle. Plus, any computer with firewire typically has a USB port. Something like a microphone or an audio input would be much more useful. Nobody else includes firewire for a reason. Apple includes it because it's their pet technology and "firewire" just sounds so l33t.
Technologically it's like hooking up and AGP card to a 386.... it just doesn't make sense.

I use a NOMAD Jukebox 2, actually. It's not the best portable music player (a Jukebox Zen would be in my opinion), but consider these things:

1. Coming from Creative, it has a number of audio features (called EAX), which are entertaining and handy. This includes custom EQ, environmental effects, Smart Volume Management, and so forth.
2. It only cost a little over $100 and has the above features and a 10 GB hard drive. While a 10 GB iPod model is unavailable (I think) for comparison, I read that the iPod Mini, with a mere 4 GB of space, would cost nearly 3 times that much. If you still want to compare prices, consider a 60 GB Jukebox Zen Xtra for $400 to a 40 GB iPod for nearly $500. Is Apple's hardware really worth that much?
3. It doesn't cost $100 to get your battery replaced when it dies, as the battery is not built in. Yes, the Li-Ion battery is still expensive, but would you rather buy a new battery for $40, or ship your iPod in to have the battery replaced by a professional for $100? As an additional advantage, since replacing the battery can be done any time without any tools, you can have as many of these batteries as you want, so you can double (or triple, or quadruple...) the listening time available, for a long trip perhaps.
4. iPod's battery life is not as long as a NOMAD Jukebox. Back that up with the ability to have multiple batteries, and we have a winner for extended listening!

I think it's obvious who has the better hardware. But if you wanna use iPod just so you can think you're cool, I guess that's fine. Don't forget to be cool by spending $200 for a copy of Windows XP Pro. ;)

I use a NOMAD Jukebox 2, actually. It's not the best portable music player (a Jukebox Zen would be in my opinion), but consider these things:

1. Coming from Creative, it has a number of audio features (called EAX), which are entertaining and handy. This includes custom EQ, environmental effects, Smart Volume Management, and so forth.
2. It only cost a little over $100 and has the above features and a 10 GB hard drive. While a 10 GB iPod model is unavailable (I think) for comparison, I read that the iPod Mini, with a mere 4 GB of space, would cost nearly 3 times that much. If you still want to compare prices, consider a 60 GB Jukebox Zen Xtra for $400 to a 40 GB iPod for nearly $500. Is Apple's hardware really worth that much?
3. It doesn't cost $100 to get your battery replaced when it dies, as the battery is not built in. Yes, the Li-Ion battery is still expensive, but would you rather buy a new battery for $40, or ship your iPod in to have the battery replaced by a professional for $100? As an additional advantage, since replacing the battery can be done any time without any tools, you can have as many of these batteries as you want, so you can double (or triple, or quadruple...) the listening time available, for a long trip perhaps.
4. iPod's battery life is not as long as a NOMAD Jukebox. Back that up with the ability to have multiple batteries, and we have a winner for extended listening!

I think it's obvious who has the better hardware. But if you wanna use iPod just so you can think you're cool, I guess that's fine. Don't forget to be cool by spending $200 for a copy of Windows XP Pro. ;)

Oh, to think how much people love inferior hardware just because it says "Apple" on it...

Umm, sorry. The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has been able to record with high quality line-in for quite some time. In fact, the Nomad Jukebox has the added feature of being able to record straight to WAV files without being degraded by an MP3 encoder. The iRiver, and most other devices, seem to lack this feature. THIS feature is what audio snobs demand, and anything that would replace a DAT recorder is going to have to do at least 44kHz lossless recording.

However, the iRiver has a sweet form factor, and it looks like it has more intelligent features like the ability to act as an external hard drive, something the Nomad lacks.

Sure you could get a decent looking, slightly larger Jukebox Xtra that has 7,5 times the capacity of the Mini iPod and replaceable batteries for exactly the same amount of money but it's "just no iPod". And, at that point - as every man knows - there's no reasoning with it.

That is the market segment Apple is going after.

And more importantly, it's also smart from a business point of view: she couldn't explain the difference between a Megabyte or a Gigabyte for the life of her. Now, at some point the thing will inevitably run out of space and instead of getting rid of older files she'll just buy a new one. Unless, of course, the battery dies first...

I remember that iTunes *had* support for additional models of MP3 players. I say *had* because my question is does it still have similar support for 3rd party devices?

Or is that a feature that was only in iTunes 2 or 3?

I have to agree with your complaints, but I don't think they're that important to Apple. After all, how many other people have come close to making a similar device?

Um, a lot of people. Creative, for one..

I'm in the same bind. I love the iPod, but it costs a lot of money. And hey, let's admit it, cool actually matters. I see cute girls with iPods all the time...

I've been toying with the idea of buying a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra

For the price and features it looks pretty decent. It's only $299.99 for the 40 GB version at buy.com. Compare that with $494.00 for the 40 GB iPod.

What about the size difference you may ask? The Nomad has a volume of 11.88 cubic inches. (3 in x 0.9 in x 4.4 in) The iPods volume is 6.89 cubic inches (2.4 in x 0.7 in x 4.1 in). The difference seems to be the fact that the iPod uses a 1.8 inch drive whereas the Nomad doesn't.

There is a minimal difference in weight though. The iPod is 6.2 oz and the Nomad is 7.2. What do you guys think?

If you're worried about price, why not look at other cheaper options? I have a Creative Zen which was much cheaper than an iPod, with considerably more storage. Also, the iRiver iHP-120 looks amazing. Check around for reviews, and you'll find that both of these products are held in high regard. Don't fall for the Apple hype!

I had been looking at Minidisks for recording, and while its nice that they are so small, i just can't stand the idea of waiting around to transfer two hours of recorded sound to my computer. I still might buy one (a sharp model), but i'm looking at these alternatives instead:

The MR-8 8-Track Digital Recorder "Genuine 16-bit/44.1kHz uncompressed linear sound quality. 2-track simultaneous recording and 8-track playback is just the tip of the iceberg. 38 self-illuminating keys, 13 knobs, and 7 smooth-moving faders combined with a 128x64 backlit LCD make it way easier to operate than any other full-featured digital recorder. Onboard guitar distortion, amp modeling, built-in mic, mic modeling, digital reverb and delay section, plus advanced editing and archiving features make stellar demos a breeze. Mastering effect for stereo bus, USB port for WAV transfer to PC, and optical S/PDIF out. Battery or included power supply operation."

SME Marantz PMD222 " Portable 3-head, 2-Speed Cassette Recorder with XLR"

NOMAD Jukebox 3

" # 20GB storage space holds up to 8000 songs encoded in WMA at 80kbps or 5000 MP3s encoded at 128kbps. 40GB of the storage space doubles that!
# High audio quality: 98dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio Playback
# Frequency range of 20Hz to 20kHz
# Maximum output 100mW
# Analog/Optical Line-In for direct high quality recording from external audio devices
# Firewire (IEEE 1394) and USB 1.1 Transfer
# Second Battery Bay: Up to 11 hours of continuous playtime with one lithium-ion rechargable battery, up to 22 hours of uninterrupted playback with both batteries
# Quick and easy navigation Scroller to find songs in seconds
# Smart Volume Management (SVM) for normalization of audio output
# AudioSync to synchronize your PC music library to the NOMAD Jukebox 3
# Anti-skip protection of up to 7 mins for smooth listening
# EAX-enabled
# Time-Scaling - Speed up or slow down audio playback without distortion
# Creative File Manager - Use the player as a portable storage device
# Personalization features: LCD color, faceplates, accessories, startup logos"
(according to some sites, i'd need a mic preamp to record with this)


Theres a whole section dedicated to "uploading facilities" here: http://www.minidisc.org/

That Dell DJ-player is re-branded Creative's NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra

• For one thing, it has about 2x the battery life of the iPod.
  
• The look and feel versus the iPod is more a subjective thing, IMHO, and not simply "worse".
  
• Does have a mic (see middle of this page).
  
• $100 cheaper price tag for the same amount of storage space (20GB)

• Remote and FM transmitter could possibly be offered as accessories.
  
• Software/firmware might be upgradeable, possibly allowing it to be used cross-platform, as a storage device, and with other programs besides from MusicMatch (although probably not if Dell has an agreement with MM).

I've had Creative's Nomad Jukebox 3 (20G) for almost a year now. It's about the size of a portable CD player, so it's bigger than an Ipod. I don't see it's size as a problem, but the biggest drawback is the interface - it's a bit clunky, doesn't have a fast response, and navigating for a song isn't as easy as an Ipod. That's why I think Ipod is the standard - they produced an outstanding and compact product from the beginning.

the dell dj (gah) is not as good-looking as the nomad zen nx let alone the ipod. Disappointing. :-|

Or you could opt for a Creative Nomad Zen that has 2x the storage of your iPod, costs less than any iPod, and has Creative's legendary sound quality.

If you really must have the nifty white look, there is the Creative Zen NX that holds 30 GB and has even more features.

Or you could opt for a Creative Nomad Zen that has 2x the storage of your iPod, costs less than any iPod, and has Creative's legendary sound quality.

If you really must have the nifty white look, there is the Creative Zen NX that holds 30 GB and has even more features.

It reminded me of the MuVo also. Except this player has a backlit LCD display. Which makes it much more user friendly, IMO. (though that's bound to eat into battery life...) I also like the use of a USB cable, vs. plugging the device right into a USB port (not easy for those of us without front side usb ports). I like these drag-n-drop mp3 players that don't require special software. I wouldn't buy a player with such a limited amount of storage without an FM tuner, though.

I also fail to see how this innovative or even newsworthy. Let me know when the prices on these things aren't so inflated.

Heard this is a smimilar product minus the LCD screen. They make it a point to print "No drivers needed" on the box. Works like a Flash Memory key too.

Anybody who has this care to comment?

Um... size? Size does matter, and for portable music players smaller is better. A Nomad is 140 x 127 x 38mm, an iPod is 103 x 60 x 18mm. On other words, a Nomad is portable CD player size, and an iPod is pack-of-cards size. One can go easily in any pocket, the other can't. I consider the iPod capable of fitting in my pocket, something I can't say for the Nomad. Am I missing something important here?

Future Proof Design:
The NOMAD II MG supports standard MP3, WMA, and WAV formats and its upgradeable technology allows new features and enhancements to be downloaded to it from NOMADWorld.com. With the NOMAD II MG, you can be on the cutting edge of MP3 music technology.

That's right. Give me that cutting edge NOW! :)

It's tuned into CBC, so cron records shows like Ideas, and Quirks and Quarks

I then have a script to download the shows when I connect my MuVo

It's great for when I'm doing chores around the house!

On the other hand, MP3 players, digital cameras, and video cameras do not belong with integrated phones or PDAs. These media device require a lot more storage space, which at the moment, means a hard drive. My MP3 player, a Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has a 20GB hard drive, which is fantastic! I love carrying around all the music I own on it. My digital camera, which is at the low-end of the spectrum (1.3 MP), currently has a 128MB card, which is adequate for a trip of approx 2 weeks or so. I can imagine that if I purchased a camera with a better resolution, I'd want a lot more storage on the camera, perhaps somewhere in the range of 1GB. (BTW, can the cameras that take CF cards use the microdrives?) I currently don't own a video camera, but have been working with digital video at my job, and it's fantastic. If I were to get a video camera, why not get one that has a HD built in? With the addition of a firewire or network port, you could transfer the video over quite quickly. Unite the media devices around the fact that they need a lot of storage, which requires a larger form factor.

I'm actually not convinced that a MP3 player should be integrated with anything, as I can forsee situations where that'd be really inconvenient. However, I'd love to have a combo digicam / DV cam, and hope that more device like that are produced. Sadly, all of the video cameras I've seen that also take still photos don't do a good job of that, and all the digicams I've seen that take videos don't do a good job of that.

Todd

Why are there fifty companies making portable MP3 "players", but zero to one making MP3 or WAV "recorders"?

Surely there's no conspiracy involved...

Nope... I have the Jukebox 3 and it only has a 4-pin FireWire plug on the back and the Zen ought to be the same way.. Reading through the FAQ, it does seem that the Zen does support charging via USB.

The Specifications page for the 20GB Zen states it has a built-in rechargable lithium-ion battery, and is powered off DC 5v in. I'd assume the new one uses the same system.

Size
iPod: 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.73 inches
Zen: 3 x 4.4 x 1 inches

Weight
iPod: 6.2 ounces
Zen: 9.5 ounces

It should also be noted that the Zen can get FM radio stations with an optional remote control and can use USB 2 or Firewire. The iPod has a bigger screen, but it can only use Firewire. In addition to mp3 format, the Zen supports WMA and WAV. The iPod supports mp3 and AAC audio.

Apple - Gen 3 iPod stas from Apple Japan

Nomad - Nomad 20GB version

According to this page the zen is capable of recording when you get the 'optional FM wired remote.' According to this post the iPod is rumoured to be able to do the same via a yet to be announced accessory. What I can't tell you is if either of the gadgets will record into a compressed format. With longer DJ sets that might be the deal-breaker.

While the Nomad Zen is certainly a nice MP3 player with an excellent set of features, I think it is an exaggeration to say that it is only "slightly larger" than the 30GB iPod. Look at the specs for the 30GB iPod and the Nomad Zen. The Nomad Zen weighs 50% more than the 30GB iPod (268g vs. 176g). The volume of the Nomad Zen is more than 75% larger then the 30GB iPod (209 cm^3 vs. 118 cm^3).

Is the difference all that important? Maybe not, but of the two the Apple iPod is certainly the sleeker, and that will matter to some customers.

The Nomad Jukebox 3 has two spots for LiIon battery packs (which are rather small and fairly light) and uses a 4-pin FireWire connector, so no power pins for charging that way.