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60G Nomad Zen vs. The iPod
war3rd writes "According to an article in BetaNews, Creative is going to be releasing an upgraded Nomad Zen at the end of the month that is not only larger than the iPod, but cheaper too. At $400 for 60G ($100 less than the 30G iPod), the new Zen will sport more features, although it may be slightly larger than the newer generation of iPods. I have been putting off buying an MP3 player until I felt that the arms race was settling down, but the new Zen is making my mouth water. So what does the /. community think, are Creative and Apple going to be the top players in this arena? Is it time I jumped onto the bandwagon? One thing is for certain, I am going to be watching the reviews closely."
I've been using a Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3 (30gb) unit for the last year and 10+ hours a *day* and have no complaints. Solid unit. I can not only play MP3s, but also WMA files (sorry /.-ers,,, I have sinned).
The unit also easily stores data files. w00t!
IMHO, the zen is an easy choice - twice the storage, $100 less, tons of reliability, and more features.
Btw, there is also a HUGE Nomad community too! I'll cite Nomadness.net as a great example. Good forums and good Nomad news.
iPod sports AAC. That's the kicker. I'd rather have quality than quantity. Besides...you really gonna fill that 60Gigs with music? I don't think so.
I got nothin'.
I guess it depends what you value most. Size, capacity or style?
Looking to draw Windows users away from Apple's wildly popular iPod, Creative has released a mammoth update to its NOMAD Jukebox Zen portable audio player. The hard drive based Zen boasts an immense storage capacity of 60GB - twice that of largest iPod.
The NOMAD Jukebox Zen sports a sleek aluminum case and USB 2.0 connectivity for fast song transfers. Creative has priced the Zen at $400, $100 cheaper than Apple's new 30GB iPod.
"We've heard from our users that they would love to see a huge capacity NOMAD Jukebox Zen to take their entire music library and their digital files wherever they go," said Creative CEO Sim Wong Hoo. "And of course they demanded a great price. With the NOMAD Jukebox Zen with 60GB we've delivered a breakthrough capacity in a portable player."
Creative claims a battery life of 14 hours in the NOMAD Jukebox Zen, slightly higher than that of the iPod. The Zen offers the ability to edit playlists directly on the device, and a "Find" function to quality search thousands of songs. An optional FM Wired Remote is also available featuring an FM tuner and microphone.
But despite Creative's superior capacity and lower price, Apple has leapfrogged its competitors in terms of dollar market share. According to NPDTechworld, Apple held 27 percent of the market in the fourth quarter of last year, followed by S3's Rio unit with 10 percent.
Apple's third generation iPods debut May 2, while Creative expects to ship the 60GB NOMAD Jukebox Zen later this month.
What about us who want a good MP3/OGG player that is under 100bucks?
--sig fault--
But I have zero confidence in Creative's drivers. Anyone who owns a SoundBlaster card and runs Windows can attest to how crap they are.
Interesting how the iPod has become the standard by which other players are judged. Interesting that the submitter has found a player that is both larger than the iPod (a good thing) and also slightly larger than the iPod (a bad thing). Maybe being specific about when we mean capacity in GB and when we mean physical dimensions wouldn't be such a bad thing...
Lasers Controlled Games!
I have been using a nomad jukebox 20gb for about 3yrs at about 4 hours per day in my car with not one complaint over the lifetime of the product. I plan on going for the sleeker zen when i pick up a new car shortly and run an aux-in cable to the head unit.
The iPod is awesome, but you are paying for the apple name and commercialization. Save some money.
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artlu.net
Yeah? How about you take your spam and shove it up your ass, and we'll call it even.
OK, now this is getting interesting. 60gig.
;-)
Today: Now, if I wait just a wee little longer for the price to come down......
Later: Yes, I'll take one of those new 4tb Zen's for $99.95 please...
And by the time I really do get one they will be obsolete and dirt cheap on ebay...
Ah the joys of playing the waiting game!
is a cheap version of ipod that sports maybe 1GB and has an insanely long battery life. What kind of insane moron needs compressed audio with 60 GB of room.
Maybe the next logical progression would be to sport a small plasma screen and play dvd's and divx. These things already had enough room.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
The Creative website does not mention anything about playing OGG... While the iPod doesn't have OGG support either, it would be very useful.
The selling point for me is if it can record like the Jukebox 2/3. This is key when you want to record your dj sets at clubs or parties (which I have done many times using the older Jukebox models).
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
Okay, I know I was reaching anyway when the Zen (and libnjb) would not place nice on my linux box...but not working on a fully-updated XP box (lacking USB 2) is not acceptable.
Well, there's always something with more features and cheaper just around the corner. But the iPod is here and it's slick and has fast data transfer.
Oh, and yes, you can easily update the firmware to the iPod. Both the firmware and iPod software have been updated several times in the last year.
-Geoff
Creative is the king when it comes to sound quality. After all, they do happen to make sound cards as well.
To my understanding, the Zen is just a smaller Nomad Jukebox with slightly less features. I believe that Creative tends to go with Firewire rather than USB2 (most of the Creative Soundcards also include firewire ports these days), although I'd expect this new player to include both.
I've strongly considered buying a hard drive player, but I'm slightly worried about failure. It'd be nice to move my mp3 collection over to a 60gig player and free up some space, but what if the player gets fried? I suppose I could burn backups to CD too, and I suppose I should anyway, but regardless harddrives are very potentially faulty things.
That, and I only want to buy a player that I can plug in and have it show up as an external hard drive. No iTunes, no MusicMatch Jukebox, none of that nonsense. I want to load my tunes on myself, I don't want the player to depend on id3 tags (as many of my mp3s have poor id3 tags), I just want it to use filenames and folders and behave like a sensible external hard drive that also happens to play mp3s. I believe the Archos jukeboxes do this, but I don't know about any other hard drive based players.
And lastly, I believe the iPod has the Zen beat in battery life. Form factor wise, Mac fanboys will slobber over the iPod and say that anything else sucks, but personally I think the Zen or even the Archos are just fine in terms of appearances and usability.
If this new Zen can plug in just like a hard drive, and it really is 60gb for $400, I might have to pick it up myself. 60gb is about the largest I trust hard drives anyway, much less portable ones.
As for CD MP3 versus HDD MP3 players my mind isn't made up yet.
No, I'm not being a smart-ass. If they can put in WMV (which I wouldn't use, being an OS X/Linux guy, so I have no point), they should put in Ogg and AAC, since AAC is based on the MPEG-4 codec.
Then I could actually sit at my desk and try to decide - iPod, or Zen. If for no other reason than I like competition.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Oh, and let me guess, can you not get firmware upgrades for the iPod? Because of course we all know how Apple feels about upgrades...
Hmm. I updated mine just fine...
Neuros Audio hopes to do just that soon with linux support as well.
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According to my calculation, the Nomad Zen is over twice the size (volume) of the iPod and 60% heavier.
Apple iPod (Gen 3)
103.5mm(H)*61.8mm(W)*15.7mm(D) = ~100k cubic mm and 158 grams
Nomad Zen
112.6*75.9*24.5 = ~209k cubic mm at 268g.
Furthermore, the set of functionalities that the two players offer are different (sync vs FM capability for example) so their value to user is highly different.
While I like iPod to support other formats (WMA and Vorbis Ogg) but I am satisified with AAC and MP3 for now.
nomadness.net has had postings in its forums about hacking and upgrading the Jukebox Zen back in December 2002 / January 2003.
More recently, a guy has created a complete guide to upgrading your Creative Labs Jukebox Zen to 30/40/60GB.
Enjoy!
If you have a Mac and you want to try Apple's new (legal) music service, the complementarity between your Mac, the iPod and easy-to-get, legal music would be enticing.
-- My choice of computing platform is a symbol of my individuality and belief in personal freedom.
I don't know. That's a great price, but it's a Creative product so I have a feeling it's not as good as it sounds.
See, I've used Creative audio products since the days of the original SoundBlaster... and Creative really doesn't do as good of a job as they used to. These days they have horrible drivers, false advertising, and practically nonexistent tech support. They release a new driver update around every six MONTHS, even when there are dozens of outstanding bugs to fix; and cards like the Audigy barely did half of the things they advertised on the box and on websites.
So anyway, this thing sounds cool... but if I were you, I wouldn't buy one without finding out a LOT about it and making sure I'm really getting my money's worth. You really can't trust Creative anymore.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
Will it play Oggs? They released the Integer only version of the codec months ago.
If I can't play half my music, I don't care how big the harddrive might be.
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Dumb question, as I don't see it answered in the Betanews, and someone who uses a Nomad might be able to answer.
The batteries - AA, or rechargable? I once had a Jukebox that was suppose to be able to charge via a separate AC adapter, but it would be nice if it could charge via USB 2.0. Just because I like less cords.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
This probably won't affect most people, but Apple's new music store isn't going to work with the zen, unless there's some hidden aac playing ability. If aac suddenly becomes the format of choice (I doubt it) the zen is going to have to play it to level with the Ipod.
About how they will triple the price of this box.
They have revised the rate structure though:
Before they proposed $21.00/GB which would have added $1,260 to the cost of this box.
Now the rate strucure looks like:
1 GB or less 11.1 cents/MB
$11.50 on 1st GB
$7.98/gb on Gbs 2 to 5
$5.98/gb on Gbs 6 to 10
$3.99/gb on Gbs 11 to 20
$1.99/gb on Gbs 21 or greater
I'll leave the calculation on a 60GB drive as an exercise for the reader.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
It's been years since I've been happy with a Creative Labs product. You have to go way back to their pre-Live! soundcards.
Since the Live!, Everything of their's I've purchased and/or used has been flakey: 3/4 of the way done, but never quite all the way.
I'm a person who doesn't like to settle for "good enough", and Creative's stuff is consistently a notch below "good enough" for me.
At this point I can't imagine anything coming close to the iPod in terms of usability, features, or aesthetics. Certainly not anything from Creative.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
Personally i am not going to buy this product or any other audio player until i get support for my music files. Which are most in OGG Vorbis format.
I really would jump at the first audio player with OGG support, or flash ROM so i could add it myself.
Any tech-knowhow people here know why there is so little support in general for other audio formats? I heard somewhere that it was a problem of OGG taking up more FPU Power than other formats like MP3 anyone care to comment on that?
The new iPod is a great (if evolutionary) development, and a 60Gb Zen has me drooling, but the player I've really been lusting after is the fate-unknown Pearl from now-defunct SonicBlue. It's smaller than the iPod, and includes an Ethernet-enabled docking station. All the early reports were good.
Alas, SonicBlue went bankrupt and sold its Rio assets to Denon, a major high-end home audio manufacturer. It's starting to look like the Pearl might never actually ship.
Between the two (Apple and Creative), for my money, I'd take an iPod. It has a dock, supports FireWire AND USB2, is quite a bit smaller and lighter, is Mac-friendly (if you're into that sort of thing) and is truly a brilliant piece of interface work. Also: when Apple ships the Windows version of its online music store later this year, you can be sure that iPod-for-Windows will be nicely supported.
The new Zen is bigger, but I listen to a LOT of music, and I've ripped every CD I've ever owned, plus years of Naptering and eMusic subscription, and my collection's only a little larger than 20Gb. It'll be a LONG time before I hit even the 40Gb barrier of the iPod--I can't imagine that I'd ever fill up a 60 gig drive. If you plan to use the player to shuffle around a lot of big files (graphics professionals?) in addition to using it as an audio player, then I might recommend the Zen, but 60 Gb is a LOT for just music.
You may get your wish with the new iPods..."As the Apple Turns" (http://www.appleturns.com/) had a tidbit yesterday that mentions a recording function buried in the diagnostic menu of the new units. A hint of things to come?
I believe that the time these "mass storage" mp3 devices will come into common usage and acceptance will be when they support some form of realtime mp3 compression to record to the device on the fly. I can't even count the number of times I've been sitting around and have wanted to record a good good joke I've heard, interesting lecture, or incriminating evidence on a friend. Why just the other day we were sitting around and came up with a wonderful joke involving people who read slashdot, a lack of bathing, the RIAA, a trained walrus, several assault rifles, and a copy of The O'Reilly factor. All lost to the sands of time. Good realtime compression would be an excellent feature!
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While the Nomad Zen is certainly a nice MP3 player with an excellent set of features, I think it is an exaggeration to say that it is only "slightly larger" than the 30GB iPod. Look at the specs for the 30GB iPod and the Nomad Zen. The Nomad Zen weighs 50% more than the 30GB iPod (268g vs. 176g). The volume of the Nomad Zen is more than 75% larger then the 30GB iPod (209 cm^3 vs. 118 cm^3).
Is the difference all that important? Maybe not, but of the two the Apple iPod is certainly the sleeker, and that will matter to some customers.
You could copy a couple of your DVDs to the zen for watching at friends, directly from the unit via the usb or firewire, heck, you could even have your favorite dvd-player software on the disk to be sure that you can play the DVD-files... (Even with 5-6 movies on your 60 gig zen you have plenty of place for music left)
Will it play Oggs? They released the Integer only version of the codec months ago.
If I can't play half my music, I don't care how big the harddrive might be.
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
How about a pocket-sized MP3 player that can also record some of the better radio shows and allow me to pauses and fast forward through commercials?
I found the Pogo Radio MyWay to do this. I haven't seen any other mp3 player that can do it.
More about the pocket-sized TiVo-like MP3 player
I know someone will say they have 30 gig of tunes and want all of it all the time. This to me is simple geek nonsense. You can't listen to that much in a reasonable fashion. Further needing it all probably says more about poor software and hardware than anything else. (IMO)
I use my iPod in my car and at the gym and at work. (To drown out my co-worker's Rush Limbaugh at times) I honestly can't imagine *why* you need more than perhaps 20 gig. I honestly can't.
If you are using it as a portable hard drive then, OK. I can understand. But the reason I like the iPod is that while it functions as a small hard drive for a few files, it is primarily a *player*.
The iPod has a more ergonomic and intuitive interface.
The iPod has better construction.
The iPod will work with the iTunes Music Store when it comes out for Windows later this year. The Zen won't. What does it work with, WMA's? Yes, for those wonderful WMA music stores that are all the rage nowadays.
The iPod is kicking its ass in the marketplace, and for good reason.
What the ideal MP3 player is:
-The size of today's ipod or smaller
-Storage capacity of 5GB+
-FM Radio (I like to get NPR without carrying around a seperate device)
-Good sound quality
-Formats: MP3, WMA, AAC, and OGG
-Price: $250
I think this is easily achievable with today's technology. My money awaits the first company to make one.
Zen almost gets it but too big. IPod almost gets it but no FM tuner.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Like most of you, I don't spend all day carrying around devices(besides a phone). I actually work and have to try and not look like I have dialysis hooked to my groin while doing so.
This, though, is what I need. I'd like to get this device as part of a car reciever so I can forgo having CD's slide around my car when a particular song sucks. I don't want to die in a car accident when the 15th song ends. This is the market for large storage. And no, I don't mean mounting it to the dashboard so I have yet another projectile in my car.. I mean I want it built into the reciever itself.
The carry all market needs to be made so small, it can't be seen. And this isn't it.
When walking down the street or driving, how many people have an iPod or whatever stuck to their waste/heads? How many people want this? How many songs could you listen to before you were to die of dehydration? Who needs this? Whether or not you want it is a different matter..
I would like to have a car reciever that has a 120 Gig hard drive, usb2.0, and can play anything xmms can play. Is that alot to ask?
Most people have cars, and drive to work, and drive back from work, and..- it's like an epiphany! People listen to most of their music in their cars.. Wow.
Anyway.. I'm gonna wait for the cluetrain to hit the market before I do.
Don't forget about the software! One of the big positive points for the iPod on a Mac is that it work seamlessly with iTunes. All of my playlists are sync'd automatically and I can make lists of just my highest rated music, which makes managing space on the iPod a piece of cake.
Supreme Ruler S. Jobs has promised iTunes by the end of the year for Win32 (to get them onto the new music service). In calculating value of a portable device like this don't forget to factor in intangibles such as ease of use and integration...
Would people please stop saying "OGG"... That makes it look like it's an acronym, which it's not.
8
You can read about it here, straight from the horses mouth:
http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030318.html#id272736
Nomad Zen:
Size: 75.9 x 112.6 x 24.5 mm
Weight: 268g
ipod:
Size: 104.1 x 60.9 x 15.75 mm (18.5 mm for the 30 gb model)
Weight: 158g (176g for the 30gb model)
So the Zen at ~209.4 cc's is more than twice the size and almost 70% heavier than the 10 and 15 gig ipods (99 cc's), and still nearly twice as big and over 50% heavier than the 30 gig ipod.
That's more than a little bigger - it's the difference from dragging down your cargo pants and slipping into a shirt pocket. The new ipods are *TINY*. There is NO comparison with any other hard-disk based player.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Based on the listed specs from the manufactures, the new 30gig iPod is ~121k mm^3, while the Nomad is ~201k mm^3. Almost twice as large.
The Nomad is also 50% heavier.
And the kicker, the Nomad numbers are for the 20GB model, compared to the 30GB iPod. I couldn't find numbers for the 60GB version. I have no idea how the size and weight of the 60GB model compare to the 20GB model. Personally, I would bet larger over smaller.
For those that haven't held it, the old iPod was almost identical in size to a deck of playing cards, and the controls fell right under the thumb of the holding hand, so you could hold and control it completely with only one hand. And the new iPods are a lot thinner than the old ones.
The scroll wheel design is great. The sensitivty and accleration are perfect. I could scroll through 2000 songs in about 4 seconds, and still land on exactly the one you want without overshooting, with about 1 minute of practice.
I haven't seen any interface on the Nomad that will actually let you find your songs in such a huge library.
In December we purchased an original Nomad Jukebox (10GB for $100 after Mail-in-Rebate). Exactly 96 days after purchase, the unit failed to boot. Creative's warranty, of course, was an impressive 90 days. Thinking back to the knee-jerk reaction of declining the Best Buy extended warranty, I felt like quoting some Khan from Star Trek II.
Anywho, I take care of my devices. The Jukebox still has the plastic covering the LCD. Ghetto, ya dig?
I engaged in an epic duel with Creative's tech support via e-mail. Sending extremely detailed reports to them, and met in return with extremely canned responses. Most often, the responses asked questions that I had already answered in the previous mail. Obviously, this wasn't going anywhere.
To make matters worse, it had been over the '6 to 8 week' waiting period and I still had no rebate check. Customer Service said 'sorry' and acknowledged the irony that the unit was out of warranty and broken before Creative could even be bothered to mail my rebate. And by that I mean they didn't acknowledge the irony. At all. They just didn't care.
Instead of pursuing the matter further with Creative's customer service, I used the 'protection' feature of my credit card to reimburse me for the unit, and swore off Creative for future products.
I don't doubt the Nomads have gotten better through the revisions. However, I try to judge a company equally between the good products they make and how they handle thier failures.
Buyer beware.
At 60gb we are quickly approaching the level where I can use a quality, full format like WAV over all the compressed but less robust formats like AAC, MP3, OGG, etc.
Not only do those formats essential trick your brain into hearing sounds that aren't really there, but often they are encoded at 128kbps only (AAC) which is unacceptable for a good portion of my more refined music.
Think about it. On a 60gb player I can carry 120 ALBUMS in pure WAV format with no loss whatsoever. And at $100 less? This one's a no brainer.
-rt
I believe the new iPods are slimmer.
Here ya go.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Hmm. I updated [apple.com] mine just fine...
Excuse me? iPod owners have been waiting for Apple to release software that would let you create a playlist on the iPod itself since the first iPod came out over a year ago. The good news is that version 2.0 of the software has been released (and supports this feature). The bad news is that the only way to get this software is to buy a new iPod.
The iTunes music store: the first real reason to buy an mp3. Oh and the attention to detail that will make you a convert..
And if that isnt enough the new iPods come with solitare (and laser engraving)!
Looking at my 60gb music collection (10,052 songs) I might consider the Zen, but I only kid myself when I say for mp3's (and an OSX emergency start drive) I need more than my 10gb pod.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Size
iPod: 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.73 inches
Zen: 3 x 4.4 x 1 inches
Weight
iPod: 6.2 ounces
Zen: 9.5 ounces
It should also be noted that the Zen can get FM radio stations with an optional remote control and can use USB 2 or Firewire. The iPod has a bigger screen, but it can only use Firewire. In addition to mp3 format, the Zen supports WMA and WAV. The iPod supports mp3 and AAC audio.
My Blog Sucks.
The number one reason I am buying an Ipod is because it will have the best support for my Mac. I see Nomad finally supports OS X (must be within the last week or two), but I'm not going to trust something that new.
a d&name=News&file=article&sid=1135&mode=thread&orde r=1)
The second reason is because it offers some PDA style functionality such as a calendar, alarm, contacts and notes (hopefully notes will let us read full length books similar to palm books).
3rd, rumor mill has it that there is a recording capability which would be really cool.(http://www.ipoding.com/modules.php?op=modlo
4th, MPEG4/AAC instead of mp3.
And finally, because I really need a $500 Solitare/Brix game. And not to mention, it looks much nicer (IMO) than the Nomad.
I dont want to spend time re-encoding my [insert favorite digital file type 1] files to [insert favorite digital file type 2].
Modern software-based digital music players (xmms, winamp, freeamp, etc.) use pluggable codecs to support a large range of music files. Where is the hardware-based digital player that follows suit ? Obviously its not easy/cheap to do, but thats where my money will go. I should be able to add support for new codecs as they arrive. How about codecs on a flash/SD card ?
I have used a Nomad Jukebox as well as Apple iPod. And I can say that Creative Nomad Jukebox is a piece of shit when compared to iPod. I should know I own one. It has been collecting dust in my garage for the past several months. Large, ugly, slow, clunky, battery sucker and really really bad interface. It is a pain to use. I went ahead and bough a $40 Samsung CD player from Costco that plays MP3s. I use it a lot more. I also recently bought Creative speakers and Extigy, the external USB sound card. Both crap. I am not buying another creative product even again.
I'm going to go ahead and be honest and say I would never consider the Nomad as I am a terribly, sold out Apple slut. I'm not going to make leet arguments about it...it's cool, and if I buy a MP3 player, it will be an iPod. Simple as that.
And judging from about 40 of the 90-something posts here so far, until something supports Ogg it will get summarily smacked down and shit-talked until the Penguins come home.
If you are a first-time MP3 player buyer and are seriously weighing these two on /. ...do you even exist?
You know what?
I think I'll stick with my good old price + performance + features + aesthetics way of deciding on technology. If you do a value analysis on both products the Zen described in this article it wins, hands down.
Besides, I'm not so insecure or superficial that I need an iPod from Apple to serve as a badge of my artistic individuality. Kudos to you though!
-rt
Creative has to be right up there with Microsoft in terms of their consistant and blatant contempt for their own customers.
It's been over two years since Creative bought out Aureal, and they still have neither released a card that supports Aureal's A3D 2.0 standard (still lightyears ahead of any version of EAX), nor open-sourced the drivers for the old Aureal cards.
I can't think of a single hardware company I'd be less likely to give my money to. (What, me bitter about my old Diamond MX300? Why yes.)
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Any who owns a Nomad player or is thinking about getting one has to check out this software called Notmad Explorer.
http://www.redchairsoftware.com/notmad/
I don't think any other MP3 player has software this cool for it.
did anyone thing about the software they use? iTunes is a REALLY nice app and that counts for a lot.
iPod almost gets it but no FM tuner.
/me wonders why the FUCK anyone would want an FM tuner when they can carry 7500 songs around in their pocket. Sometimes you get tired of just the music that YOU like and want to sample whatever vapid claptrap ClearChannel is shitting out onto the airwaves? Do you miss having to listen to a shitload of annoying commercials in a row?
/me sighs. Fine. Here. $35.
One big question is "does the Zen support the Mac?" If not, then I'm bummed.
Audio-only players are so 90s. Personally, I'm saving my money for the Archos AV320, or something like it. Big screen, MP3 *&* MPEG video playback and record. The lack of wireless, though, is a sore point.
l ?pg=12
l easePicts/
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/play.htm
http://shanebrinkmandavis.com/homepage/JBMM/Prere
Da Blog
I have had the 20 GB for about a month (Doh! 40 more gigs!) And I have loved every minute. As usual, I skipped the headphones that came with it and use a good, studio pair. This play has, hands down, the best sound of any portable mp3 player that I have ever plugged this pair of headphones into. Simply great.
Secondly, I like it's complete lack of DRM. I can transfer my music between my computers in different parts of the world no problem. And data files too! Unfortunately, this is also one of the major flaws as well. You need Creative's drivers/ software to do this. No problem if you are going back and forth between said computer fairly often, but for a one time shot it is a little bit of a drawback.
There is a util to make a windows floppy for data xfers, but not mp3 sync or xfer.
The controls are fine for me, but to each his own. I've always found that no matter how obscure the lay out, your hands learns it soon enough.
For price, features, capacity and quality I don't think you can beat this.
60 GB capaciy and cool and all, but what really makes it sweet is that it's got the classic styling of a 1997 Western Digital hard drive. Beauty.
Point 1:
The Nomad might have something going as far as storage goes. But it doesn't navigate nearly or integrate nearly as nice as an iPod. Of course if you are talking iPod on windows vs Nomad on windows then it might be a different story. But NOTHING is nicer than a syncing iPod on a mac with iTunes. Whether i am at my comptuer or on the go, or in my car, my tracks are being incremented and i can rate them on the road and then just sync that when i get home, and use all of that data in a smart dynamic playlist. Its very very nice.
Point 2:
I don't think i would give $10 much less $400 to Creative. They have the worst support known to man for their products. They took 1 1/2 years just to release drivers for their SBLive cards on win 2k. And I'm sure everyone else here is familiar with their support of their own products.
They kind of just PUT stuff out in the public domain and then just let it sit.
I've strongly considered buying a hard drive player, but I'm slightly worried about failure. It'd be nice to move my mp3 collection over to a 60gig player and free up some space, but what if the player gets fried? I suppose I could burn backups to CD too, and I suppose I should anyway, but regardless harddrives are very potentially faulty things.
Are you implying that you don't have the original CDs for all of your music? I'd be on the lookout for guys in black trench coats & sunglasses if I were you...
I've been lusting after an iPod for a while now, but one of my reservations was a lack of an FM tuner. However, it seems that may be solved with the iFM. Griffin products have been favorably reviewed at iPod Web sites, so with luck the iFM will be of good quality.
Da Blog
NPR doesn't have commercials!
If you aren't listening to NPR, I don't know what these "better radio shows" could possibly be.
We're not talking just music, but being able to store data. I use my Jukebox3 as a portable hard drive between work and home -- much cheaper than some other solutions.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Sure you can throw away your money on either of these 2 gadgets. Or you can check out the Archo's jukebox multimedia 20.
.RAM, .AU, or .MIDI files either let alone my 8-tracks, but do I rank about it at the top of my lungs trying to drown out everyone else enjoying their paltry MP3's.... Nooooo.
- 20gb (40gb coming)
- 8 hr battery life
- DivX video playback to Tv or screen
- built in 1.5in lcd screen (in color natch)
- Awesome sound controls
- USB 2.0 and Firewire (natch)
- Optional SmartMedia and Compact Flash readers
- Optional 1.2 mega pixel still and video camera
- MP3 recording via built-in mic or external
- Video recording module
- Remote Control
- ALL of these items (including optionals) come in cheaper then an iPod!!
P.S. I used mine daily for the last 6 months and it's incredible! Someone once asked me if it was solidly built. I threw it over my shoulder to demonstrate bounced it off my floor picked it up and it hadn't missed a beat!
Now the cons to be fair:
- The battery isn't easily changed
- The playlist support does NOT match the iPods
- The camera attachment needs a flash
- Video recording module has mixed reviews
Oh and it does NOT play Ogg/Vorbis. But would you people please get over it! Nothing portable plays my
I've seen a few posts asking Why God Why would you possibly want/need that much disk space. Surely 5GB is more than enough you Gluttonous Babboon.
Here's why: Imagine you have 40 GB of tunes (not that many once you rip them at good quality, and you finish doing all your cd's). Now imagine you have a 20 GB player. It's all well and fun to carry half your tunes around, but you find yourself saying 'what about CD X'? No problem, just put it on the player. But first you need to remove another CD. And once you have thousands of tracks, and start getting sick of some CD's and want to rotate in others, you realize it's a Massive Pain In The Ass. After a few gigs, the ideal is to just have all your music and skip the rigamarole. The alternative is to just never get around to listening to half your music which is the problem I was trying to avoid in buying an iPod in the first place (swapping CD's from my storage binders to my little travel binder).
I've had one of my PJB-100 (www.pjbox.com) modified for a 60 gig since they were available last fall.
This lil bugger started life as a 6 gig, getting succesively larger drives (20, 30 and 40 gig) as they became available.
Drive change takes no more than a couple minutes, once you get the hang of it.
My thinking on the capacity was that for the most part I don't go for long trips requiring a substantial library of music. When I do, I always bring my laptop which has more hard drive space and I can carry anything extra. Basically the price point is the important part here. 100GB would be nice, but I'd be willing to sacrifice down to 5GB to get the price down.
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Another option is the Archos Jukebox. The 20GB recorder model is ~$225, and you can upgrade the drive to 60GB.
One of the best things about the Archos is the OSS Rockbox firmware at http://rockbox.haxx.se/. New features are continually being added that make the Archos a very cool device. Plus, if you aren't happy with the way it works, just hack it yourself! The Rockbox source is very well written and easy to hack. Plus it has games.
This post is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
That's about what it shapes up to.
The bigger is better paradigm vs the pipsqueak with features galore.
But I want to hold out till iPod v4 to see if they get wireless sharing. Maybe they will, may they wont, but Apple seems to be all about it's wireless networking, and being able to network ipods and other apple products on a wireless node would be uber-cool and possibly a new way to interact.
Future scenario: Sitting on the BART doing the commute, scanning wireless networks and getting a list of users online... "ahhh, qtCh1k" *click* listen to her playlist and send a message over an embedded version of ichat.
Far fetched? Nahhh.. just a matter of time.
I mean, I'm already doing that with my G4 laptop, the cafe I go to in SF has a large population of other OS X users and they even provide a free wireless service and with iTunes4, we can now stream our music libraries and chat with rendezvous via the LAN.
The iPod has a bigger screen, but it can only use Firewire.
The latest iPods (10, 15 and 30 GB models) offer both FireWire and USB 2.0. Just hook the iPod to your PC's USB 2.0 ports for speedy transfers.
Are you sure you can record with the iPod? I've never seen anything about that, but it'd be great...
Go to Red Chair Software, try the trial, buy Notmad for 25 bucks and be amazed. This is what Creative should have built -- it is much more stable, fast, and not as bloated. When you do get it, start playing around with Notweb Explorer, and you'll be amazed what your little mp3 player can do.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
The Archos is the way to go. I've been using mine now for almost a year. The more storage the better as it can be used for general file storage and dumping movies and pictures from digital cameras. The latest one supports video out and mpeg playback and is still cheaper than the latest iPod!
I find it very useful to transfer files to and from work along with my entire music collection.
I couldn't give a rats a@@ about any DRM laden formats such as Apple's new one.
You know what the Nomad is good for? Plenty of trance livesets and essential mixes! Pitty to those who listen to singles, no wonder you're in a complicated mess!
Lots of livesets will take up that space!
Why so many songs? I got tired of carrying around a CD player and so many CDs. And even if I brought 100 CDs on a long trip, I'd always find myself in the mood for something I had left behind. No with my entire collection at hand, I always have everything I want.
There is a major problem with previous versions of the Zen that the rechargable battery cannot be replaced by the user or by tech support - once the battery is dead, the unit has to be replaced. I believe the iPod had a similar issue with batteries. I'm definitely in the market, but I'll make my purchase decision based on resolution of this critical issue.
Since he plans to cancel his ipod purchase on rumor that it makes a 'pop' between tracks, maybe. Maybe he can buy this and leave people alone.
...how much RAM does the Nomad Zen have? The iPod has 32MB of RAM, which is a very good amount. You need a big chunk of RAM with something like this to prevent messing up the hard drive while you're walking, jogging, etc.
Oops!
..is just an mp3 player with a good battery life.
i havent seen a hardrive based mp3 player with more than 15 hours of battery life yet. what good is 4000 hours of music; when the battery only lasts for 10 hours?
the Zen only has a 12 hour battery life; the Ipod only 10. what kind of crap is this? the reason i bought the CD player i did is because it had a 35 hour battery life.
i just dont want to have to charge the damn thing *every single day*
first, that destroys overall battery life. second, its a pain to do!
does anyone know of a HD-based player with a 20+ hour battery life? i'd really go for that; much moreso than having 60gb.
Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
Tis the beauty of the computer/consumer electronics industry. Moore's law and it's various counterparts insure that capacity will go up, prices will go down, etc. It ought to get quite interesting when these things really get to be comoditized. Soon these things will cost $100, have all the capacity you could reasonably want, and sound good as well.
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Still, what use would one have for the increased capacity without the ability to "authorize" a Zen for playback of my AAC files bought from the Apple music store? If creative announces support for AAC with Fairplay (Apple's DRM technology) and Apple supports the Zen in iTunes, then the Zen is the big winner tonight!
Drag and drop? I've gotten spoiled by just plugging my iPod in, waiting 30 seconds while it automatically updates everything, and then unplugging
For data files, yeah, I guess I have to do the drag and drop. But for music, I'll stick to "plug and un-plug"
While I prefer the iPod, I enjoy the competition because it only make both products better in the long run. And that benefits me, and isn't that what it is all about?
Did you read that. It's for listening to NPR, the only remaining home of decent radio.
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God, I'd managed to completely forget that I'm a two-time loser via Creative Labs' mergers&acquisitions department. First my Ensoniq 1370, then my Aureal.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
The file transfer protocol is proprietary and has only been partially reverse engineered. See libnjb.sourceforge.net for details. The Linux tools for getting songs onto the device currently suck goat nuts.
The iPod on the other hand, appears as a mass storage device (generic SCSI hard drive on top of Firewire). You can easily "mount" the iPod and use "cp" to copy files to it. This is very different from the Zen, which appears as a random USB device and requires special programs and scripts to put data onto it.
I bought a Nomad Zen 20GB USB 2.0 for $212 and I think it was a waste of money. I'll probably give it to someone who uses Windows and buy an iPod.
My other first post is car post.
FAQ located here.
;-)
simon
home page
from my personal exp between the new ipod and the zen (tried the new one out for the first time on saturday) the zen is still king of sound quality. i tested it using 3 different high end headphones (Beyerdynamic DT250-250s, Senn 480s and 280pros). bass impact on the zen is much better (that can be told esp on the beyerdynamics as they squeeze every ounce of bass out of what you plug them into, and thats true for any headphones they make), the overall clearness from the zen was much better then the ipods. its like that sound you get going from a SBLive! to an audigy 2. you suddenly hear more things that you didnt even notice were there on the Live. the ui. i agree that the ipod ui is easier to learn but once you get into the zen its easier to find what your looking for then it is on the ipod in my opinion. that search function the zen has really comes in handy zen has 100mW output and 98db. the ipod has a 60mW output and wont even list its db. so that means that you'll need an amp if you want some high end headphones like the DT250-250s or the senn 480s but the zen has a high enough output that you dont need that amp. battery life. zen has a rated 14hrs (i pull the rated 12 and an extra 30mins on my firewire model fyi) and ipod has a rated 8. zen is the clear winner there usb2.0, the zen has it now while it lost the firewire (appears to be discontinued). the ipod wont have it until june and wants you to pay another $20 for the cable. yes playcenter sucks but you can also use windows media player to transfer music. creative file manager isnt that bad. i havent had it crash on me in the middle of a file transfer like playcenter did once. but all in all notmad is still better hands down. durability. well i dropped my zen down the wooden stairs of my house while fidgeting with the belt clip on the case and it didnt even skip when i picked it up. i doubt the ipod would of been so lucky. and finally AAC support....the only reason apple is even using that is because in their agreement with the labels thats what they finally agreed on. that'd be like if Creative suddenly came out and said they made AAC-Plus or something. theres even downsides to the ipod. some people have been noticing an audible "click" between tracks on their new iPods. See thread linked below. I would wait to see whether Apple resolves this problem in a firmware update before I buy. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&t hreadid=33481
something else i found in that thread on head-fi
"Also, one major drawback with current firmware is the queuing. If you're currently listening to the 'on the go' playlist, and then add a song to it, that newly added song wont be played on the curently listened playlist. You have to restart the playlist for the added song to be recognized on the list."
looks like they managed to screw up that feature too, haha. that significantly brings down the appeal of the new Ipod to me. although that's probably something they could fix with firmware upgrade maybe?
the only thing ipod has over the zen is its weight and size along with its little games and calendar.
For those wanting an FM tuner with their ipod
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/ifm/
This is probably because OSX is attracting a lot of the people who read /. I went from Apple to PC about 8 years ago. This year, I started thinking about switching back. Read my last comment for information on why I decided against it (basically, my girlfriend's POS iBook kept breaking and costing hundreds of dollars to fix (with Apple refusing to honor their warranty)). She would switch to a PC, except she is computer illiterate enough that she doesn't think she'd be able to handle the change.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
On my computer, I organize my MP3s using the file system. E.g., if I want to listen to "Dark Side of the Moon", it's in "music/rock/Pink Floyd/Dark Side of the Moon". I've got xmms open, and I keep the "add dir" window opened, which has a nice tree view, so to play an album, I simply double click on it in that window, and hit play over in the main window.
So, for an MP3 player, I just want something that I can copy my music directory to, and then access via a simple interface.
This is what I like about my Archos 15 gig, which was $180. It simply works the way I do...it doesn't ask me to buy into some grand unified vision of music management like the others seem to.
(no one in this case meaning not enough to justify production by a large firm.)
OGG? Was that the kid that hung out with Mork in the sitcom?
check out earth2willi.com for lots of free music downloads to install on your iPod or Zen.. It's registration and advertisement free, untouched by the RIAA, available in various genre and fileformats, complete with print resolution artwork, and uncrippled by DRM.
...done it dozens of times...?
...and one day the pin just broke off for no reason ...I'd hazard to say that karma was high on the 'reason' list.
Apple should fix...
Try a USB ethernet dongle...and some cheese w/your whine.
You, my man, are a walking disaster. I feel sorry for the dealer you buy your next car from...and your girlfriend.
And it hit her right on the head, and the Docter said it wasn't his fault and there was nothing he could do about it!
Both the iPod and all of Creative's stuff need proprietary software that keeps you locked out of direct control of your music files. The iPod can store data files, but on a different "realm" from it's mp3 area, so you don't have direct access to your mp3's unless you are using iTunes, which would be wodely despised if it was made by Microsoft.
... dump 10 GBs of your own mp3 files on one of these and you will know what I mean when you see 5 entries for "The Cure", "TheCure" "Cure", "The_Cure" and "Teh Cure".
Same thing with Creative, except it's even worse since Creative can't code for shit, whereas Apple can make good software when they want to. So yeah, there's ephpod on the PC for the iPod, there's notmad for the Zen, etc, but you are always in the same boat: closed systems, closed software, limited access.
I couldn't be happier with my 20 GB Archos FM Recorder. It's a little bulky and not as good looking as the iPod or Zen, but it records mp3's in real time, has direct USB2 connector, mounts like an actual hard drive volume on your desktop with full access to ALL files on both Mac and PC - no drivers or extraneous software needed, battery lasts for about 10 hours of actual usage, there's enthusiast, homebrew firmware for it that adds a ton of features and improves performance, you can hack it yourself, it sounds great, It's got a built-on FM radio, it records mp3's in real time from a built in Mic, line-in OR the FM radio, it can withstand significant shocks, you can make your playlists with good old Winamp exactly the same way you would make any other playlist, just save it on your Archos and go. And possibly by favorite feature, you don't have to organize every single ID3 tag in your reams of mp3 files, because you browse your music through watever directories you setup, not an forced ID3-based sorting system like iPod or Nomads, which royally blows
And finally... You can get this gem for $270 retail. I don't see how you can beat that, unless style is a deal breaker for you.
Well there are a lot of people who seem o be misguided, so let's take a look at the little things and see where that $100 extra on the iPod goes
:)
-A happy iPod owner (so I am a little biased, but I dont think you can argue with the points above)
For starters, OK, the Zen is a 60GB monster - but WHO here HAS 60GB of music? Maybe one or two will perk up, but when we're all honest I think that those of us who would use all that space for tunes is laughably slim.
And let's say you DO stock up on 60GB of tunes - the UI (hardware and software - note the thumbwheel) is far superior on the iPod. I know which one I prefer scrolling through thousands of songs on.
And isn't a 60GB drive likeley to have more platters, meaning more weight to spin, meaning shorter batterylife (or compensate with heavier battery)?
Does the Zen have AAC? Uh... No.
And according to those who are supposed to know, AAC is supposed to get near to twice the compression at the same quality (measured aurally not bitrate) - so I guess the 30GB iPod can store fairly close to the 60GB Zen if you wanted.
I know which one is sexier too.
I know whether I would rather have FireWire or USB2 too (but admittedly your mileage may vary).
And those who claim the Zen has a larger community - go see ipoding.com
And does th Zen have the Breakout game? No... didn't think so
This sig has been deprecated.
To summarize, the iPod is meant to be used to carry around part of your collection (where 5 gigs are fine for a few days, and 10gigs are fine for a vacation) to listen to. Keywords: part, and a few days.
that the iPod can recharge its batteries over firewire...
in under an hour.
I really do not think a USB2 device can do that.
I have a 20gig Archos Jukebox. It's a souped up mp3 player. In additition to storing and playing mp3s, the thing has a little LCD screen, and it plays MOVIES! Or it can output the signal to a TV.
Additionally, it has compact flash and SD adaptors, so you can download the pictures from your camera to the device. This is handy when travelling: you can empty your CF cards and browse photos on the Archos whenever you feel like.
Additional size is always a plus, but stats rarely tell the whole story.
Witold
www.witold.org
witold.org
Not sure I would call the Nomad 'pocket sized':
Nomad: 112.6 x 75.9 x 24.5 mm = 209 cc
Ipod: 104.1 x 58.8 x 18.54 mm = 113 cc
209 / 113 = 1.85
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
This is all good-and-well but the problem is what happens in future with more copy protected CDs being released?
I have a HTPC at home with my entire (legal) collection of ripped MP3s. I use Musicmatch Jukebox and its very convenient to have the entire collection available on HDD.
I've yet to run into a copy protected disk, but I know they're out there waiting to ruin my fair use of music I've purchased.
What are we going to do in future?
I have used both units and the first thing that I've noticed is that the Zen is much noisier and vibrates a lot. You can feel the drive inertia when you move the unit around.
As a long-time user of the original portable HD-based MP3 player, the portable jukebox(www.pjbox.com), I've only been able to fill my mp3 player (20GB capacity) with 5GB worth of songs (and, keep in mind that I've had my player for three years now--long before the iPod was on any drawing board). As it stands, I can play my entire collection for two to three days straight without having the same song play twice. I've finally reached a point where I'm running out of songs to put into that player, and its quite mind-boggling to think that I still have an additional 15GB left before I can fill this thing to capacity.
:)
And 60GB, you say? Thanks, but no thanks.
I'm still working on filling Old Faithful here. Sure, she might be ugly. Yeah, she might be 'fat' compared to the newer versions.
But this big momma can still sing, and it'll be another 15GBs before this fat lady stops singing.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Creative has burnt me. Fool me once, and all that. Even if Apple's iPod is double the price for half the features, and the only alternative, I will not buy a Nomad.
The perplexing thing about the lack of Ogg Vorbis support (which I only use because it sounds fantastic) is that it is a competitive environment out there right now for portable audio players. And the fact that supporting Ogg Vorbis costs nothing. It's a free and clear license and it would seem that whoever supported it would have a leg up on the competiton.
/., people who like open source, people who use Ogg Vorbis, tech people.... these are people who love digital devices and buy them in droves. We make up a huge portion of the audience that these audio players are trying to lure. Why wouldn't they want to support a free and high quality codec that many of us use?
People who read
It'll eventually happen, but it's a shame that it hasn't already.
But does it take a Sony Memory Stick? I don't buy any personal electronics products anymore that don't accept the Memory Stick.
nuff said..... be a windows loser if you need to
I would just like to say, fuck you apple user, every one of you.
Thank you.
I bought a horrible RCA Lyra thing with 64megs of flash. This thing requires you use windows, and have an account with *administrator* privileges in order to upload songs to it! All the songs are then encrypted so you can't save them anywhere else and it won't play anything other than mp3s that have been encrypted.
I'd love to get an iPod or Nomad. But will either work if I take them running?
get phat, dude ...
http://www.phatnoise.com/products/digitalmediaplay ers/index.php
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT= SVBIZINK8.story&STORY=/www/story/05-06-2003/000194 0946&EDATE=TUE+May+06+2003,+08:19+AM
My first /. post and I hit submit
instead of preview. Please accept my sorries ...
PhatNoise product page
Press release
That image needs a reference object for those of us who don't know the size of either player. If I go by "actual size" on my 17" monitor, they're both friggin' huge! ;-)
This space for rent, inquire within.
I had the original Nomad Jukebox (silver/blue, 6GB) and I think it was a piece of shite. The UI wasn't terrible, but the software clearly sucked. Battery life wasn't great at all, and to top it off the firmware/hardware was totally retarded with regards to re-charging the batteries.
Most of the time when I'd plug it in, it would refuse to charge the batteries. Occasionally this could be solved by leaving the unit on/plugged in, and taking out / re-inserting one of the four (4!) AA rechargeables. But that quit working, and I gave up on the unit.
The size (dimensions and storage), I could live with. But the poor battery life AND not being able to recharge, that was the final straw.
Bigger.. yes. Cheaper.. yes. Cooler.. no.
It doesn't look to be as big of a difference as the math makes it out to be.
Actually here's some more telling pictures from different angles.
They require that you use some really crappy Windows only software in order to access the device. I decided that I was not going to support a product that would not emulate a more generic USB storage device.
It would not have been quite as bad if they'd simply used a proprietary driver that then emulated USB storage.. But NOoo. They want you to use their lousy tool.
Also, I did some fairly extensive analysis on the quality of their MP3 recording. Their encoder was absolute crap. Lots of jitter, even on very simple signals. LAME blew it away.
I did like the ability to record in raw (WAV) format and the price..
Circuit City took it back, no questions asked. Pretty awesome.
Unfortunately, the Zen product has no Line-In and uses some 'FM wired remote', so it may lose to the Nomad in that regard.
Another feature I keep looking for in jukeboxes is a bookmark feature, so I can resume listening the the middle of a track. I listen to a lot of spoken word stuff, so I won't get a jukebox without this feature. The new iPod seems to have it, but only for Audible.com downloads. Or am I mistaken?
Note that the Zen has less than half the screen resolution of the iPod, and the Zen device is substantially (~60%) heavier. It's larger to boot.
These things are important to me, and if they are to you, then the $100 is easily worth it. (Heck, that's only about 8 CDs, or 10 downloaded CDs from Apple's Music Store.)
(Posted because no one noted the screen resolution difference.)
Bzzzt...the New ipod has both Firewire and USB 2.0.
The new ipod is smaller than the old one. So although your photos are interesting, they don't tell the whole story.
www.archos.com
From the specs:
Video playback: MPEG-4 SP with MP3 stereo sound, near-DVD quality. Resolution up to 640x368 @25f/s. AVI file format, reads XviD and DivX(TM)* 4.0 & 5.0
Music playback: Stereo MP3 decoding @ 30-320 Kbits/s. CBR & VBR
Music recording: Stereo MP3 encoding @ 30-160 Kbits/s. VBR
Photo viewer: JPEG or BMP of any size
Display: TV output or built-in color LCD (237x234)
"Oh, and let me guess, can you not get firmware upgrades for the iPod? Because of course we all know how Apple feels about upgrades..."
No, I don't know how Apple feels about upgrades unless you mean that upgrading Apple products is easier than picking your nose. Pretty much all Apple software is updated through Software Update (including iPod firmware), or you can grab them off apple.com if you're a Windows person.
I get the feeling you think Apple doesn't allow for upgrades in its products, and of course that is totally insane. Linux has already been ported to the iPod so I think it's a safe bet that the iPod allowns the firmware to be changed.
Just do what I did, and buy a used iPod. Then, you get the best of both worlds. Low(er) price, and great interface and features.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
For me, it really isn't about the GB of storage, or, for that matter, really the size. It is about the ease of use and the integration.
Apple's iPod (and Apple with all of their products) offers a great experience and great integration between the music player on the machine (iTunes) and purchasing music online (applemusic.com).
Sure the Nomad might be able to do some of those things, but is the experience as good as with the iPod?
I am an Apple slut. I use iPhoto to print photos online, even though I know of other cheaper services. But none so convenient. I'm a .mac user (which is a good value if you use all the goodies that come with it, but not a good value if you're just looking for email service). And I have a G4 tower.
But I thought this whole MP3 player thing was a fad, and I was bummed when Apple announced the original iPod. Does anybody besides me remember the Apple digital camera... I think it was called the one-click (not to be confused with the Amazon service licensed by Apple). It was an also ran in digital camera space...not so much better than the competition and before the market was mature. I thought that is what the iPod was going to be.
But holy cow. tonight I went to CompUSA specifically for the purpose of looking at an iPod. Next to it was a Nomad Jukebox. I played with both of them for a while, and reached one singular conclusion.
The iPod is a vastly superior product, regardless of the capacity and price difference.
I am going to ask for an iPod for Father's day. A year after the original iPod, I still don't see anythng on the market that's as good as the original. for me, Apple has the only product in this space worth purchasing at any price. The rest of them are junk, and the iPod is the only decent player I've seen.
a few months ago i bought a cd mp3 player that plays audio cds, cd's burnt with mp3's and even vcds for only $51.. sure its a cheep taiwanese piece of crap, but its incredibly useful, plays everything i got.. (why would i have anything in those other formats?) and when i accidentally dropped it several feet onto hard concrete floor and put a crack in the lcd screen.. i cried a whole lot less than i would have had i actually spent like a $100 or more on it. Besides, it still works, can't read the track number anymore, but just having a track number wasnt very useful to begin with.. (get what you pay for) And when I decided to look for and buy an mp3 cd player i was expecting to pay alot more.
BTW.. the burned cd's hold "data files" too.
iPod sports AAC. That's the kicker. I'd rather have quality than quantity.
Well, all the testing I've seen says AAC sounds worse then MP3, not better. Not that apple zelots would notice..
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Why do so many freakin people have to run in and post "Will it play ogg?" Can't these people READ? freakin morons.
/. become "mac heaven" ?
And 2) Since when has
I heard that a HDD becomes more susceptible to shock when it has more platters. I know that the iPod uses a single platter HDD card. I'm guessing that the Nomad Zen uses a 2+ platter HDD. Will this make the Zen more susceptible to shock?
I ask because the primary concern I have when considering these devices is how bad a drop is for the device. Obviously, dropping a device is bad for any device, but is potentially a lot worse for a device with a HDD in it. If the iPod is less likely to fail after a drop or two, I'd definately get it over the Zen.
Good god, that thing supports email. How the hell are you supposed to type in a message!?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
After an obsessive amount of research on both the iPod and the Zen, I bought a Zen.
.. I got the Zen for $300, which was $200-less than a comparable iPod.
.. I like to be able to listen to WHAT I want, WHEN I want, without having to futz with the iPod after each song (pre-programmed playlists have never worked well for me.. I have spontaneous music-needs
.. From what I've read, it's quite easy to upgrade your Zen to 40 (or even 60!) gigabytes. This always appealed to me, in case I find my music collection suddenly growing by a factor of 4
.. These features weren't deal-breakers for me, but I figured they'd be nice to have (especially the voice recording).
.. because the Zen looks AMAZING (it easily rivals the iPod in this regard). The metal-outside feels so much sturdier as well, and unlike the iPod, doesn't scratch at ALL.
After using the Zen extensively, I returned it for an iPod.
Initially, I was attracted to the Zen for these reasons:
- Price Value
- "Playlist on the Fly" Options
- Expandability
- FM Radio / Radio Recording / Voice Recording (with add-on remote)
- Looks.
Everyone here who has been ragging on the Zen's looks has a) never seen one in real life or b) has no tastes
I ended up returning it for these reasons:
- The user-interface was AWFUL (IMHO). To get to a particular artist would take me at least twice as long as it takes me on my iPod. Little quirks - like having to scroll to "OPEN" before you could browse an artist or album got annoying pretty quick.
- The screen is small.. it's still very usable, but not nearly as easy-to-see as the iPod's.
- The scroll-wheel was a bear to use, and scrolling through long lists was not fun (this was after a firmware-upgrade, which improved this problem somewhat).
- The buttons were not overly-easy to press, which made using the Zen a challenge when using one hand. This wasn't a huge problem, but after seeing how easy the iPod is to use, I realized how the Zen is lacking in this area.
- There are NO accessories for the Zen (unlike the iPod, which has cases, stands, docking stations, etc, etc.) - This alone, however, was hardly a deal breaker, but being stuck with Creative's case wasn't fun (it's bulky and ugly).
---
Oh, one other significant difference between the two is the support you will be getting if you ever have a problem with your player. From everything I've read, Creative's 90 day-support is anywhere from "decent" to "awful", and Apple's 1 year support is nothing short of amazing (this is simply based on stories I've heard, not any statistics). Still, I was uncomfortable owning the Zen knowing that Creative only supported it for 90 days.. that's unacceptable for a consumer product of that price.
People like to compare the software that goes along with each of the players, but that's pretty trivial IMO. For the Zen, get Notmad Explorer (It'll save you a LOT of headaches), and for the iPod, get ephPod (It'll save you a LOT of headaches). Both of those programs are amazing, and make transferring to your portable-player a cinch.
I'm now a happy owner of an Apple iPod (a 20-gigger). Using some coupon codes I found for Dell, it only cost me about $420 - which is only $70 more than the $350 Zen (they discontinued the Zen's rebate, correct?). If FM-Radio, voice recording, WMA support, or expandability are essential to you, by all means, go with the Zen. Otherwise, I'd recommend the iPod to anybody.
Of course, before you buy EITHER player, you should go down to your local CompUSA and hold both of them in your hands. This is important, do not skip this step!
If anyone has any questions about either player, just ask...
Raven001
I own the Zen, but I would love to have the iPod. Money is the problem. The Zen is not so big as to be a problem. My main concern is in sound quality and the Zen has that in abundanace. As far as I am concerned, niether is perfect. Only a player that is small, sleek, cheap, sounds good, has firewire and USB2, needs no drivers, plays EVERYTHING, has tons of storage, has good support, has good software, etc etc will do. For those that think 60 GB is stupid, are you capable of hearing the aweful artifacts in crappy low bit rate MP3s? I am, and they come out even more on the Zen thanks to it's incredible sound quality. Due to this, I am in the process of re-encoding my entire 50+ GB collection of MP3's to a higher bitrate. I think that the iTunes is really cool, I do not however trust 128 kpbs ANYTHING. So, even if the Zen played 128 kbps AAC, I would not be totally satisfied. In the future, I will be upgrading my Zen to 60 GB. This is not to be able to carry ALL my music, but to be able to carry all the music I WANT to with HIGH (read transparent) sound quality, and still have room for files when I need it. Yes, the iPod is smaller, yes it's WAY cooler, yes I would love to have the iPod. But the Zen is great, sounds good, is small enough and is affordable. If you can't come up with the cash, what difference does it make what it looks like and how small it is.
I am an anti-Apple slut, but I have to agree with you. The iPod is a vastly superior product to anything else available.
Granted, I haven't tried all of them, I'm going on reviews and general consensus. Also, personal experience. I do own an iPod though and before that I used my girlfriend as a guinea pig for a beast known as the Archos Player. (I'm evil, I know ;) It sucked hard-core.
The thing that really ticks me off is that no manufacturer really takes it all the way. Not even Apple, they just come the closest. I mean, how can it be that nobody came up with the idea of a *bigger* LCD (iPod had the biggest when it first came out...not sure now). Why do so many players have only buttons and no dial-like apparatus? Why can hardly any of them record? How about a mini speaker on the outside so a group could listen to something funny (or you could annoy someone :)
There are so many possible features that you could add to an MP3 player and the only one that seem to come close is the iPod. The world isn't perfect I guess.
I've had two things break on my (sony) laptop. One, the I lost the ability to charge the thing* Sony sent me a new power brick, and when that didn't work, they replaced the fuse for fre. Second, the little plastic latch broke, and again sony fixed it for free.
Shit breaks. If it's under warrenty, it should be fixed.
*(I was trying to run the 'top off of my car's power adaptor and blew a fuse. I didn't tell them this, of course)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Try the eDigital Odessey 1000 http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342420- 1317-20845399.html?tag=subnav
Just slightly larger than an IPOD much much more functionality.
Then we have several coming out very very soon
http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342420- 8-20775862-1.html?tag=dir
Look at the Samsunp YEPP YP-9000 or
iRiver HP-1000
Then we have the all singing all dancing Philips HDD100
Overall Apple seem to have decided to "give up" on innovation and concentrate on getting smaller at a cost of a lack of functionality and an even smaller battery. Shame upon you SJ. I can see a new IPOD within 15 months when Apple have a war meeting.
Of course the new One inch HDs reaching OEMs as we speak with capacity of 1-5GBs will likely launch a whole new range of tiny HD based players starting in July........
I also own one and I can tell you that you can definitely take it anywhere. I even dropped mine once on a cement floor that was covered with a short-pile carpet (hardly any carpet). It's been about 3 months since then, and no problems.
Actualy, I'd say the zen actualy looks smoother then the iPod. (nicer name to :P)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
$1.99 in canadian money isn't all that much :P
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Who the hell mesures the size of objects in volume? a 75% volume increase comes from just a 20% linear increase in all dimensions, which is what would matter for most people.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
You may not have intended to, but you make it sound as if you can use "cp" to copy songs onto the iPod. This is not the case; well, you can copy the song and have it available as a file, but you also have to write the song info into the iPod's database before you can play it using the device.
There are GPLed tools for writing to the iPod's database, but last I checked most users are just running ephpod, a windows program, using wine.
Who in the world needs to tote 60 gigs of MP3's around? So they're telling me the average kid which is really the target group here keeps over 12,000 songs? (5 Meg average at 128k) That's over 923 cd's if the average was 13 songs per cd.
Who in their right mind is going to try to sort through all that mess in the first place. And how much do their parents make that this person would own that many Cd's. Not to mention the passing fad's of songs and such managing that reguardless of the software application used would be a bigger nightmare.
It would make sense that it would contain maybe the space for 20 cd's of current stuff you actually listen to. And only if it could understand me talking to it cause I'm not going blind and getting carpal tunnel just to find my copy of Hotel California buried in the thing.
Seriously any company willing to market products as worthless as this deserves me selling all of the stock I own of them.
Make it sensible and cheap sub 100 and then you have a killer app. Otherwise you just have the latest tech toy for the rich.
I have done my research on all MP3 players. It took me about 3 years to buy one. The final debate was Archos over Ipod. I went with the Archos. Main reason was b/c it was DRM free, and it works on my Linux/WinXP/Mac boxes. Also the sound quality is great, Rockbox Rocks with their freeware software for the Archos. How many Ipod of Zen users say they can post to Apple or Creative about a bug, or new feature, and have the fix in a few days to weeks. Well you can not with APple or Creative, but yuo can with Archos/Rockbox.
Also who gives a flying fudgsicle about what the thing looks like. I could care less that my Archos is not pretty. Can you drop your ipod down a flight of 10 stairs, and still have it playing a song when you pick it up from the fall. I can. I have had it happen, and not carpeted stairs, concrete stairs.
ARCHOS is the way to go...cheap in price, yet it is of very high quality!
The Zen Jukebox is a piece o' crud. It's like comparing a porshe to a minivan. Sure the minivan is bigger and cheaper (both attributes apply to the objects physical construction as well) but quality and performance-wise you will have no contest.
The iPod is a beautifully engineered piece of technology with one of the greatest and most intuitive interface designs of the digital age. The entire reason this topic is brought up is because the iPod has set the standard by which all future MP3 players are judged, that enough is tribute to its originality and value.
No one can say which will "win" the sales or marketing game this early on, but my bets on the iPod and I also reckon you'll see a lot of disappointed reviews from those who purchase the Zen jukebox a little to hastily because of that $100 saving.
And seriously folks... this goes for the iPod too.. who needs 30GB, let alone 60GB of tunes with them at any one time?!?! 15GB is the model I purchased (I've only got 11GB of MP3's/AAC's so far) and I'l be dead and gone the the time I convert all 8000 of my vinyl LPs to AAC!
..and as many other media formats as possible. Then you don't have to worry about locking yourself into the money-grubbing patent royalties of the Fraunhofer Institute.
from the article:
"Creative claims a battery life of 14 hours in the NOMAD Jukebox Zen, slightly higher than that of the iPod."
Hmm, that's actually almost twice the 7.5 hours for the new iPod that I've heard reported.
Sounds impressive from the rumors. I sure hope Creative fixes the low background crackling sounds when playing audio files. It would kinda kill their l33t Aud1oph1le claims for the Zen if they don't fix it by this time around.
Integration & style. My new iPod has it.
Keep your Gateways and your Nomads.
DOesn't zen say not to get lots of stuff? Good one creative encourage people to get lots and lots of crap
The 60GB Nomad will hold the same number of songs as the 30GB iPod. If you consider that the Nomad must have 256Kbps MP3 for CD-quality, and the iPod must have 128Kbps AAC for CD-quality. (Standard disclaimer on the abilities of audiophiles.)
So, given that, you're on equal footing as far as storage goes. Now you just have to decide if $100 is worth the other features of the iPod. e.g. size, UI, extras.
There are only three (3) important music playback formats so far. MP4, MP3, and CDDA audio tracks. All the rest are a way, way, way distant fourth and really don't matter in 2003. This is speaking not from the perspective of someone who makes music players or hardware, but from the perspective of someone who makes music albums, so please consider humility if this isn't how Microsoft or Real or Creative explained music to you. The people who make the music are one step before the people who make the players in this process, because ultimately, what comes out of the tools we use to make music is MP4, MP3, and CDDA, just like iDVD spits out DVD Video discs. Step 2, you want a player to play them.
(You will probably also want an MP4 and MP3 encoder for CDDA that you already own, but that is optional.)
1) AAC audio track (2002 - present)
- a.k.a. "MP4" or "MPEG-4" or "MPEG-4 Audio" or "DVD Audio"
- 16-bit 44.1kHz stereo
- lossy-compressed with Dolby AAC encoding
- 128kbs is agreed to be "CD quality"
- all MPEG-4 players respect the OPTIONAL "protected" flag which is set at encoding time and then not unset by players (you might think of unprotected MP4's as "files" and protected MP4's as "streams")
2) MP3 audio track (1990's - present)
- a.k.a. "MPEG-2 Audio Layer 3", "MP3 CD"
- 16-bit 44.1kHz stereo
- lossy-compressed with Fraunhofer MP3 encoding
- 160kbs is agreed to be "CD quality"
3) CDDA audio track (1980's - present)
- early 1980's to present
- a.k.a. "audio CD", "CD-DA", "Compact Disk Digital Audio", "AIFF"
- 16-bit 44.1kHz stereo
- uncompressed
- the 20Hz to 20kHz frequency range, 90dB dynamic range and low noise defines "CD quality"
THAT IS ALL. The others are superfluous. If you have MP4 in addition to MP3 in addition to CDDA in 2003 then that is like having vinyl, Compact Cassette and 8-track Cassette in your livingroom in 1982.
The only solution that is up-to-date with all of this is Apple's Macs and iPods. In pro audio we work with 24-bit and 32-bit depths and super high sample rates and the Mac plays those because it's built for audio people. It makes sense Apple would have the playback stuff ready for MP4, MP3, CDDA before anyone else.
The other audio formats you see out there exist not for technical reasons but instead for Licensing, Marketing, DRM, Legacy, or Future.
Windows Media = Licensing, Marketing, DRM, legacy
Real = Licensing, Marketing, DRM, legacy
Ogg = Licensing, Marketing
NVF = DRM
Recording at 48kHz = DRM
Playing 48kHz, 22kHz, 11kHz = Legacy
Playing 4-bit, 8-bit, 20-bit = Legacy
Playing 24-bit = Future
Playing 96kHz = Future
Play 5.1 or 7.1 Surround = Future
20gb is enough.
To the man with a 40gb music collection, 20gb is not enough.
People aren't happy with having all of their music broken up into little pieces. They want everything at their fingertips, wherever they are. That is why people want big portable music devices. No CDs to bring with them, no disc swapping. For someone like me, who cycles for hours, there is no reason not to have many gigs of music with me.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Anyone who has an iPod knows that there have been numerous firmware updates for them. You might not notice because Mac OS X's Software Update downloads the iTunes update and then iTunes updates the iPod the next time they sync. It's very easy.
The first and second generation iPods are now at firmware 1.3, which added MP4/AAC support.
The third generation iPod is at 2.0. Yes, you can now make a playlist on your iPod if you buy a new one.
iPod has always been paired with iTunes. It is so easy to make a bajillion playlists in iTunes that I never even thought of making one on the iPod before. You can make a smart playlist in iTunes and tell it "just songs from 1969 that are Blues and less than 10 minutes" and a 200 song playlist is made for you instantly and it is self-updating.
The on-the-go playist is cool in the new iPod, but it is not the kind of feature that will have older iPod users complaining. We've been carrying around iPods for a year now. We have nothing to complain about.
it's == its
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
I guess I'm too late, but something advocates from both sides tend to forget is that these things are largely a matter of taste. I personally, cannot use the iPod at all, because the way it naturally lays in my hand my thumb overreaches and I can't turn the wheel. It feels like a glass brick, and the LCD and control wheel are in the wrong place(they should switch them, LCD on the bottom, control wheel on the top).
However, there aren't really that many MP3 players that are a lot better. My Nomad IIc is the most comfortable to hold, but it's mere flash so it is 128MB. The Jukebox is a monstrosity. Anybody know of an ergonomic harddrive based mp3 player that doesn't feel like it is a brick and is made for people with real sized thumbs?
Well... I have an older iPod too. Does your iPod not do something that was advertised BEFORE you bought it?........ Well?......... That's what I thought.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
Ipod is soooo much better, bla bla bla, Apple rocks, bla bla bla. Creative sucks, bla bla bla
That's my take. Hate to sound like a ravenous Mac-head, but... well... I am one.
That is exactly the reason why I will *_never_ever_* buy an Ipod. I just don't want to even have a slight chance that I'll be mistaken for a totally devoted, 100% Apple-marketing-brainwashed, totally subjective Apple fanboy. This Apple is almost starting to be a religion, and is getting on my tits.
Get a live, where your self image depends on the people that care about you and what you do, not about what kind of hardware manufacturer you sponsor!
IANAL, but imagine a beowulf cluster of in Soviet Russia all your belong are base to us welcoming the new SCO overlords.
This is the big difference. When people get MP3 players, the generally play with the features, think its cool and get on to listening to their music.
For an example, when a coworker recently got an (older) iPod, the excitement was tangible -- "Wow!" "This is the shit!" "Check this out!" and so on for weeks. The design was so great, he just kept holding it and feeling it, cooing over it. He's gone now, but I'm sure he's still like that.
The iPod gives you this, others don't.
Here's the problem.
/., most people seem to be Apple sluts, complete with the Imac blouse and G4 plaid skimpy skirt, with their hair in fucking pigtails
;)
On
That's fine. Let them go ahead and not play any games, etc. You pay for the style and being "unbound from chains," I suppose.
If you are interested in Apple, you will go with Apple's product. It doesn't matter if there is nothing really special about it. It doesn't even matter if it is inferior. You will defend them like a zealot, as if the war between PCers and Mac users is some kind of Holy War, a Jihad, if you will, because while PC users realize "hey, it's a computer," Mac users seem to think that the Corporation they give their money to is sacred and holy.
All praise be to All...er, Jobs. Right?
If I didn't know any better I would think this post was about a gozilla movie.
One feature that both of these are missing is a Line-out connection. I got a Nomad Jukebox3 reciently one of the most useful features for me is the line-out. This means I can plug it into my stereo at home (Or indeed any stereo anywhere) and play my entire CD collection at random without ever having to change CDs.
I will be impressed when the newspapers blowing around on the street don't blow under a building, but pile up in corners for example.
.00005 seconds, then ignore. Why should the programmers waste a week implementing your blowing newspaper physics, when they could spend that time improving the AI or other parts of the game that actually matter?
/end rant :)
Would piling newspapers add anything to the plot? No. Gameplay? No. Replayability? No. Its just something that you look at and think "hmm, thats neat" for approximatly
My roomate is similarily misguided. He wants big environments like in GTA, but he wants to be able to blow a wall in any building and walk through it. Again its like playing with power windows in a car for the first time: its cool for the first couple minutes but after that its pointless.
Somebody should make a game for you guys, where everything is highly interactive the enivornment is totally maleable. Of course your game would only have one (small) level, with no storyline, but then you could stop complaining that game xx doesn't have usless feature yy. But then this company would only sell about 50 copies to these few highly retentive people and go bankrupt.
Sad. This was my only question. I am looking for a MP3 Playing-Device that connects to my Linux Box as a mountable share. Everything else (third party software, alpha OS-Projects) is crap. Can it be that hard to build a device wich serves as an external disk?? I dont get it. (Same problem with cams btw.) Personally I think Ill spend the extra money for a well supported Ipod.
cu,
Lispy
Are you on crack!!! I am furious with Apple for not adding on the go playlist support to the 1.3 firmware and I am far from alone on the subject. Since 58% or iPods sold have been windows versions and the bundled software sucks (musicmatch is trash, the freeware ephpod is much better) it is really a feature we have been asking for since the iPod came out. Besides my music collection is very eclectic and what goes into my playlist varies with my mood, one day I might want Jazz and trance, the next rock and house, still another maybe all classical. Trust me Apple will have some very bad will with a lot of users if they don't backport the feature.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I'll buy one when the manufacturers wise up to the rather simple point that a portable device capable of storing thousands of hours of music is NOT best served by a dedicated rechargeable battery with a few hours life..... It's simple, really.... I go on a trip with the gadget in my pocket.... all the music I'll ever need... then, five hours later, my battery's flat and I've got to go find some mains power to recharge... kinda dumb. Given the ubiquity and low cost of alkaline AAs, it needs to run on two of those... I can use rechargeables if I want then buy non-rechargeables when I'm on the road somewhere...
this is why currently I take a minidisc player everywhere with me... with 12 hours battery life from a single AA you can't beat it.
its ugly ;-) But thanks for the hint anyways...
It looks neat and claims to be mountable as a external storage device:
Thomson Lyra PDP2820
I don't need a handheld music player, address book, pocketknife, personal video recorder, juicer. I just want to play music with the damn thing. Which is why I have a Rio.
Now that the HDD size isnt so much of a feature (not like the old days anyhow) I hope that they will start branching into different addons, for example, a CompactFlash cardreader would be great to copy images from my Ixus to my ipod when out and about! Paul.
My 10 gig iPod requires a recharge every 5 days, 10 hrs playback is great. Aside from the form factor etc. the 30GB version has a much higher battery consumption and I expect the 60 GB Nomad to suck even more battery power. First of all I can't understand the need to have a bigger capacity unless you're away from home or on the road constantly, and the prospect of yielding such a *huge* device which gives me a fraction of the playback time sucks. Go small and for longevity. 10GB is fine for a typical home user. Penis envy is bad.
You can theoretically obtain an almost infinitesimal decrease in audio quality when downsampling from 48->44.1.
Problem is that the good resampling algorithms are computationally intensive, and hence are almost never implemented in hardware, instead less "costly" algorithms are used. But with good software (For the ultimate in flexibility, use Matlab - I kid you not. Lots of different resampling algorithms and documentation on how they work.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I had to upgrade the memory from EDO to PC66 SDRAMs and the CPU to a 233 in order to get the damn thing to play smoothly. Which kinda killed the whole idea of being able to build something cheap with an old puter.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
Dolby Digital is AC3, not AAC.
That said, some DVD players may play it. But not all.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
...that the integration of which you speak is all Mac based. And no, I'm not trying to start a flame war. You just don't (as far as I know, maybe someone out there with more recent knowledge can chip in) get the same integration from a Windows linked iPod. (I know nothing about the linux case but I'm guessing it's similar in lack-of-link)
How much of the problem is the lack of a decent sync-ing script? Can we just write a small script to transfer files and update playlists? OK it may be fiddling about but for twice the storage and a lower cost (not to mention the fact that once you've done it properly the first time you don't have to do it again) I'd be prepared to make one or two compromises.
Pay more for high quality, yes. But how much more quality do you get for your money? Is it right for the current hardware? Answers on a postcard...
If you can't think of something nice to say then don't say anything at all. No, REALLY.
i must admit, i initially bought my ipod because of its impressive storage capacity and also damn good looks...
.R
but carrying 20 gig of music raound with you makes you realise, 20 gig is a lotta playtime, and i personally end up with a 'next song will be better and more like what i want to listen to' mentality... thus bumping through playlists and random shuffle modes like noting else...
anyway, this leads to my opinion that the next big thing in portable music will not be storage capacity at all. more, sorting tracks using different criteria, in order for you to be able to do something like listen to the music you want to hear at the time you want. which was the origional justification for carrying a huge variety of audio....
thus i assume apple has begun to see the same thing, and is takign the first steps towards it... with the star ratign system, which to me is very promising... cos im just to lazy to run up hunderds of my own playlists by hand.. tried moodlogic, and it actually did help a hell of a lot... but the ultimate to me is turning on my ipod, and havign an on the fly mood / tempo / genra based playlist created, and actually hearing a bunch of what i want to hear at the time, rather than trawlign through playlists or hoping for the best.
anyway, i still think the ipod has something to it that makes it simply damn cooler than anyting else on the market.. and undercutting such a blatant luxury item in terms of price and storage capacity just wont pull any signifigant market share... competition will have to be able to compete with coolness factor.. and that will prove hard.
anyway, my 2 cents.
prices start around 300. it only has 20 or 40 gigs, but it acts as a usb hard drive so it's totally drag and drop. it has 2 card reader modules, video/digital cam module, dvi module, and lcd screen. i play all my monty python and snl jeopardy vids, use it as storage, and of course mp3 player.
I don't know about the 2100 (Didn't the Newtons get even larger over time, i.e. the 2100 is larger than the 120?), but the 120's handwriting recognition is indeed the shittiest HW recognition ever.
We had a Newton MP120 in my house - It very quickly achieved "paperweight" status, even BEFORE it was replaced with a Palm Professional. It was a piece of shit, no ifs ands or buts. Slow, anemic, and bad handwriting recognition. A year later my dad got the aforementioned Palm Professional. No one in my family has gone back since then - At this point both of us carry Kyocera 6035s (Palm + CDMA phone) and I may be upgrading to a 7135 this summer. (Depends on if I can finagle an early phone upgrade, otherwise I have to wait an extra year for "new every two".)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Not sure about other Dells (I haven't had any problems with mine, but I'm careful with it. I will agree that the power connector is virtually invincible - Solid ABS plastic.), but if you look at the closest price/performance analog to Apple, which is IBM, IBMs are built MUCH more solidly than Apples, some of which look rather flimsy to me. IBM laptops are built like tanks. Pricey, though.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The iPod costs a lot more... Because you'll start really loving your iPod, and wishing your computer behaved similarly. Then you go out and buy a Mac for $1k, and start liking it. Then you want it as your primary computer, and you end up with a Powerbook...
:)
Pretty soon that iPod cost you $5k...
Alex
Insert CD, on insert, iTunes rips mine at 192 AAC (replacing 192 MP3). Magically, there is a directory for each artist and each CD. I moved mine out of my home directory and into /Documents/Music, I don't really know why though.... It's automatic.
What's great, is that sometimes CDDB has bad data... well I can mass change the CD's info. It's absolutely terrific.
What's nice is that I don't "copy music" to my MP3 player. I have music on the road. I mean, I plug in my iPod.
I have enough to worry about without worrying about my music. When I get CDs, I order from Amazon, and they come to the office. When the CD arrives, I pop it in, and iTunes rips it. I then make a copy of the CD w/ CD Text (via Toast). The copy goes in the Jukebox in the home stereo, and the original goes in a drawer with the other original CDs.
Now I have it at home in the stereo, in the car, if I'm on the Subway, at the gym, and at the office. How does it get everywhere, the iPod plugs in.
If something cheesy (heard from a friend or on FM/XM Radio), I can go buy the track for $1. No more scouring for music.
I have music everywhere, and it doesn't take any time anymore. Go me!
iTunes 4 is pretty slick, Rendezvous sharing is cool... Let me go see what the other guys at the office listen too...
Alex
RCA LYRA RD2780
- 20GB HD
- 3,5" LCD
- 5.2 x 3.14 x 0.98 inches
- MP3, MP3PRO, WMA, MPEG4, JPEG
- USB 2.0 or flash card
- video in/out
- 15 hours battery time
- Available in summer 2003
- $399 in suggested retail price
Picture + specs
Preview:
Pressrelease from RCA
Pressrelease from thomson
pics
The design is of course not at nice as with ipod, but still quite nice compared to archos. The screen is by far better than the one on ipod and is larger than the one on archos. I would go for this gadget because of the big screen and the overall design.
I just remember a friend getting an 20 Gb iPod last Christmas. I keeps contantly crashing, or the playback freezes. That made me scratch iPod from my wishlist. They might look good, be small and portable. However, I would take the solid, a bit bigger Archos with Rockbox over the iPod anyday, when I see how bad his is. I might just have seen one unlucky case, but I hope Apple puts more pride in their workstations.
i'm a machead, so i guess i'm biased. i considered the zen (old 20 gb model) before purchasing a new 30gb ipod last week. why? 1. size. it does matter, even when the ladies tell you it doesn't. one of my friends has a zen and it isn't that big. the ipod is just smaller, that's all. 2. storage capacity. yes, the zen wins on this one, no contest. i commend them for making twice the space available for 100$ less. this gives other companies something to strive for. for me, i wouldn't use 60 gigs. i have less than 20 gigs of music, and i don't see myself adding another 10 gigs before i buy a new mp3 player in a few years. more than 20 gigs was important to have available, which is why i went with the new 30 gb ipod. i can also boot from it as well. i don't know if the zen is cabable of this. 3. compatibility. itunes integration on a mac is better than any pc solution currently available. if you have a mac, the ipod is an easier choice. if you have a pc, i think it can go either way. apple will be releasing the pc version of itunes this summer. main point: i want to spend my time listening to the music, not fighting with software. 4. speed. firewire is fast. usb2 is fast. i can't say they are really all that different in terms of speed. in theory usb2 is faster. do i care? no. 5. ease of use. i've played around on both, the ipod feels much more intuitive. 6. aesthetic appeal. while looks are only skin deep, i do appreciate a sleek-looking device. it's not a big selling point, but is a factor nonetheless. the zen doesn't look bad at all. it reminds me a slightly elongated minidisc player. the different formats supported was never a factor for me. as long as the device plays mp3s, i'm happy. the idea of non-standard formats doesn't appeal to me, and i have yet to make up my mind about AAC. i'm not about to re-rip over 300 cds worth of music. DRM doesn't matter, i own all the cds my mp3s were ripped from. battery life is better on the zen. a 6 hours difference between the new ipod and the new zen is pretty hefty. 8 hours is enough for me though, i am never too far from a car, computer, or outlet. it also won't be very often that i'll listen to music for 8 hours straight, either. song management isn't that big of a deal to me. as long as the songs can be played, i have nothing to complain about. custom playlists on the go is a nice feature, but i see myself using the random/shuffle more often. price. ok, i paid a small fortune for my ipod. i think it's worth every penny. yes, the money is mine, and i work for it. i don't think a higher price means better, it just happens that the ipod is more expensive. which device is better? it's too subjective an argument to say one is undeniably better than the other. they both have their strengths and weaknesses. it's up the the consumer to decide what differences are more important, and get the the device that is best for them. i don't think the zen is a bad product, new or old. the introduction of the new zen will in the end benefit the consumer. with all the competition between the zen and ipod, the result can only be better devices.
The Sharp Zaurus can be used as an mp3/ogg player with tkcPlayer from theKompany.com
An ibm microdrive makes this thing into a 1 gig music player. I'm patiently waiting for the 4 gig drives.
There are these two companies called Palm and Handspring, you may have heard of them. They make a large number of PDAs using Motorola 68K processors. (Palm also now make a few with RISC chips.)
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Funny how everytime someone criticizes an Apple product, he must first make it clear how much he loves his Apple products, lest he be deluged with flames.
Because some of us have more than 10 CDs, and want to be able to carry our music -- all of our music -- with us. Because some of us don't encode all of our CDs to 128 kbps MP3. Because some of us have different needs than you.
Of course, my first thought whenever I see those "BRING OUT TEH VIDEO IPOD!!1!!!" posts is, "What kind of insane moron wants to watch movies on a 3 inch screen?"
Cthulhu loves you.
Da Blog
Gee, that sounds great! Soooo much better than the iPod. Does it come with iTunes?
No?
Oh...well then, nevermind.
Da Blog
http://www.infoanarchy.org/comments/2002/9/8/2347
(I have no opinion about Oggs because I have not listened to them enough)
It seems to me that the only purpose of pushing AAC onto the iPod is to deploy Anti Sharing Technology (DRM) and create a new revenue stream for Apple. I think I'll stick with my open-source Lame VBR MP3s...
"--nspsytune --vbr-mtrh -V1 -mj -h -b96 --lowpass 19.5 --athtype 3 --ns-sfb21 2 -Z --scale 0.98 -X0" is my personal route to listening nirvana. I get an average bitrate of around 170Kbps and an *amazing* sound fidelity.
Da Blog
I wonder why manufacturers aren't including OGG support in their players?
Some MP3 player manufacturers (not Apple) use a 1 MHz 8-bit microcontroller to run the display and a decoder chip that takes an MPEG audio bitstream on one pin and produces a WAV bitstream on another. Thus, the device is capable of decoding MP2 and MP3 and nothing else.
Will I retire or break 10K?
it lets you burn to cd. a cd that you can then rip to ogg if thats your bag.
whats the problem?
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Da Blog
Here's the official MPEG-2 AAC quality report: http://www.tnt.uni-hannover.de/project/mpeg/audio/ public/w2006.html. MPEG-4 AAC is based on MPEG-2 AAC (but admitedly different) with what is claimed to be a 30% improvement.
Also, the survey you link to makes this note: "The perceived differences at 128 kbps were already very small." In other words, at 128kbps, the ranking they give could be statistically insignificant. We don't see any numbers, and it's noted at the end of the article that the c't report is not available online. We also don't see any specifics as to where the quality deviated. Or as to the test setup, the audio samples (self-selected? please), etc.
I am also very skeptical of this ranking, which places 128kbps MP3 above 128kbps AAC and at the same time says that the difference was very small. Maybe this works since the listeners did not actually listen for deviations from the original, just their overall impression. I also think I remember reading that WMA "improved" perceived quality by adjusting the volume, because typical listeners associate that with a better sound. That does not mean it encoded with high fidelity.
Now, ranking based on overall impression is fine, since that's what you want to optimize for anyway. But fidelity is also very important.
Steve Jobs took a 90 million dollar Jet and fucked over AAPL shareholders. Dont feel bad. If they can pay Jobs to fly on a Jet they bought him, they can fix a fucking broken Apple.
Apple pays Jobs for use of jet the company bought him
By Jon Fortt
Mercury News
Apple Computer has paid Chief Executive Steve Jobs more than $1.2 million for the use of a Gulfstream V jet it bought for him two years ago. Apple paid nearly $90 million for the jet, taxes and its delivery.
Apple reported it paid Jobs $84,000 during the last fiscal quarter for company use of his private jet. The disclosure was made in Apple's quarterly report filed with the Securities Exchange Commission and made public Monday.
Before last quarter's reimbursement, Apple said it had paid Jobs $1.16 million for his use of the jet since Jobs received it in May 2001. Jobs continues to draw a salary of $1. Apple declined to comment on the latest reimbursement. In the past, the company has said the plane saves Apple time and money.
The quarterly report also said Apple's $24 million first-quarter restructuring effort included layoffs of 260 workers worldwide, less than 3 percent of the workforce.
Apple said it is moving ahead with product development efforts and continues to hire engineers. The company announced Monday two new Xserve server products. The Xserve rack-mounted server, which Apple introduced last year, now has faster single or dual 1.33-gigahertz processors and a 167-megahertz system bus. The base price has dropped $200 to $2,799. The Xserve RAID storage product, which is arriving a couple of months behind schedule, offers 720 gigabytes of storage for $5,999, up to 2.5 terabytes for 10,999.
Apple said that while Xserve RAID is designed to work with any server, it expects to sell them only to customers who already own Xserve. Apple expects video professionals, especially those dealing with high-definition footage, to be the ideal customers.
I still think ipod isn't as good as Zen/other creative jukeboxes, because there are two diffrent versions, one for mac and one for pc (am I right on this one?) and that sucks.
Oh, and btw, my friend got a creative jukeboxwhatever and it got a really nice interface and so on. I'd choose Zen.