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Finding Holiday Discounts on iPods?
jeffy124 asks: "I was hoping to get an Apple iPod for Christmas. Alas, it's too expensive and out of the budget. So I'm forced into purchasing it for myself. Hoping to cash in on a holiday season bargain, I've been keeping my eye on the sales circulars that come in the newspaper. I've seen plenty of discounts for MP3 players of all kinds (Rio's, Dell's new HD-based player, etc), and the iPod has also shown up. Christmas does not yet seem very merry to me. They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price, never at a discount of any sort. You read that right, it's 'for sale' at the *regular* price. Stores guilty of this include Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and CompUSA. Why do stores do this? How often? And does anyone know why Apple has been singled out while their competition has gotten their products discounted? Anyone know who *is* granting discounts on iPods this holiday season?"
"The other day came in the mail a 10% off coupon for various items at Best Buy, including 'MP3 Players' as indicated on the front of slip. Hoping this was how I was gonna get that discount, I set aside time this weekend to drive to Delaware in order to skip out on my local state sales tax too. I turned the coupon over, and in the legal disclaimer was the phrase 'Excludes Apple iPod Players.' Needless to say, a Merry Christmas is still aways off."
...is after christmas. That is when all the best bargains are found.
because they can. (boring).
next issue?
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
Why should I have to enslave myself to Apple and its Barfintosh ethos (which is expressed: money money money...for us), when I can more easily plunk down a lot less money for any of the new hard drive based MP3 players which come with no strings attached?
Until they day after you buy one, Apple will annouce price breaks of $50-$100 and new larger capacity models.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
AFAIK, Apple is the one keeping prices up. If you look at third party Mac sellers, they will often give you a memory upgrade, HD increase, free accessories, etc., but almost never a price break. My guess would be that Apple exerts similar influence regarding price controls of other product lines, too.
If you want a cheaper ipod, your best bet is most likely going to be eBay.
;) of course, you may find yourself needing to replace a battery.
I can't believe there isn't some collusion between the retailers and the manufacturers over Xmas, which has an effect on the 'sale' price. Perhaps Apple said 'No'.
I don't think it's morally right to say that a product is 'on sale' unless there's been a reduction in price though - at least in the UK, there must have been an immediately preceding period at which the product was priced higher for it to be marketed as at a 'sale' price...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Find someone that's willing to buy it for you through their higher education discount. In Canada, a $439 10GB iPod goes for about $379 if you use an educational discount, if I recall correctly.
Isn't it Apple that forces the no-discount thing?
Obviously, I could be mistaken, but I could have sworn I've seen this a number of other places as well.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
I bet it sort of works like the Gamecube price. The company selling the product sets an artifical price limit. In order to be able to sell the product you have to sign a contract agreeing to the price point. So best buy must have signed some sort of agreement with apple and it cannot lower the price. Simple.
In linux libertas
Just because it's listed in a circular doesn't mean that there's any sale price. We are just conditioned to believe that.
I haven't seen ipods for anything less than MSRP at any B&M either, probably due to the demand being so high.
You can usually get a rebate if you purchase one with other Apple products. The only way that I was able to afford one with with a $100 rebate when a friend purchased an iBook.
The only time you will find Apple products for sale is when Apple passes along end-of-life discounts. (i.e. right before the new model comes out)
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
I bought my Ipod over the summer used from amazon.com. I know their are people who have issues with the battery longevity but I have not noticed any problems. Best thing was I payed $150 for a 10gig Ipod.
Not a student? Erm, how about asking one to buy one (after giving them the money to them first). I mean, the cheapest iPods aren't that much more from a top end MD player ~250 thereabouts, its not *that* expensive.
Try looking on eBay? or Loot.com there sometimes can be good deals to be found.
Fight Crime - Shoot Back!
Techbargains.com has a coupon for apple 10% off I think. You can also look for other generic coupons at similar sites. As for a good deal, all you need is someone else's credit card.
I recently upgraded from my iPod to the Rio Karma, and it is THE iPod killer. More reviews can be found here: article.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
Ogg vorbis support is just too important to me to look at a iPod. Rio Karma 20 can be had for about $270.00 online and the Karma 40 should be out shortly. I've been waiting for years for a Ogg portable. At last they are starting to appear!
Ebay is your best bet, still. Apple is not going to help you out and you shouldn't help them.
./revolution
Are they allowed to claim an item is on sale without actually changing the price or do they just reduce the price by 1 cent or something?
I stole this Sig
To make money.
How often?
As long as the market will bear.
Is it fascism yet?
That apple holds these companies hostage with an agreement to sell the product only at specific prices. If anyone sells it at a different price, they can't sell the item anymore.
Supply and demand, baby. Deal with it. You don't WANT an iPod competitor. You want an iPod. Don't try to pass the competitors off as equivalent and then bitch about a price differece. Go buy the competitor if you don't like it.
Step 1) Create product
Step 2) Sell it at market price based on supply and demand
Step 3) Profit
It's so easy, even Microsoft can do it!
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Have you considered a refurb unit? Checkout the Apple Store and look for the big red "SAVE" tag on the left. I used a refurbished iBook for quite a while and it never gave me any trouble..
I used to work for Apple, and I know first hand that Apple forces resellers to their pricing structure.. You won't find any apple products for less than they sell for at the apple store.
Supply and Demand. Why lower the price when people are still buying? Stores only discount when they want a product to move faster. If the product is selling, it doesn't go on sale.
This seems to be the case with a lot of products in the retail environment. Gaming consoles come to mind. While many retail products in the big box stores are discounted due to wholesale bulk purchasing, some products manufacturers just won't let the retailer alter the price, because it doesn't jive with their "Marketing" plan.
You can find them for about here for $289 and there's a fun $20 rebate available also. So you can get it for $269 AR and there is also free shipping. So it's below the iPod it's 20 GB AND it supports Ogg and FLAC. It also has unofficial support for Linux so you lose the apple 'coolness' but your pocketbook and open source will thank you!
It's pretty much simple Economics. The iPods are selling just fine at their regular prices. These stores don't need to cut the prices to entice people to buy iPods. They're flying off the shelves without any help.
So, why would anyone cut into their profits if they're gonna sell the same number of units at the full price?
Because Apple does not allow you to sell Apple products below the pricing offered by Apple themselves.
Apple does, however, let you bundle things- so your best bet is to look for the best bundle(free case etc). Smalldog and MacConnection are among several catalog companies who regularly do these deals, because it's the only way to be competitive(and not a terribly good one, either.)
Do get a case; mine was scratched all over within a half week, and I was excruciatingly careful with it. Also, DO get an extended warranty, and DON'T GET IT FROM APPLE, it's shorter and MORE expensive than Best Buy's(for example.)
FYI- don't bother looking for an iTrip. I placed my order two months ago with Griffin and they have yet to ship me mine. It's getting cancelled tomorrow, I'm fed up of waiting, and I hear the FM adapters all suck anyway.
Please help metamoderate.
I know what you mean, it seems that only Apple has this problem with discounts.
Last time I went to buy an ibook, it was around christmas, and I knew that I wasn't going to find any discounts for it. So, I looked for the non-monentary things that I could get with it.
I actually wound up getting triple fly-buys points (rewards program in New Zealand) with it, which is probably the best deal I could've gotten.
Rather, they RARELY compete on price. Macintosh will always cost more than mere regular vendors, because they offer unprecedented design and user interface. They want to be the Mercedes of the computer industries. They're more likely to introduce to you the limited Platinum edition Ipod offered for only a month at the low price of $599 than to give a discount on their current line.
Bottom line, discounted prices for Macintosh equates to lesser quality. Don't hold your breath for lower prices on the most popular gadget of the year.
Your scenario is driven by demand, my local CompUSA is generally out of stock of them, not by choice but because demand is so high.
They're maintaining the price and pushing a huge advertising campaign, it's a good strategy, higher price & lower volume = bigger profit & lower manufacturing cost.
but IIRC, in nearly all states, a product cannot be advertised as "on sale" unless it is selling at a price below a former price for that item.
If it's always been $299, it simply cannot be advertised as a "sale" with a price of $299.
Again, IANAL, but your state legislator knows lots about the law. Ask him.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
from macresq.com. I'm happy to say, well, the only damage i could find was on the box. It had some sticky stuf from duct tape and it had a dented corner. woohoo. As for the iPod, it was a 2G 10 GB one. Battery came full, and it came with all that... earphones, iPod, firewire cable, AC adapter brick, that case, the remote... yeah. Firmware was also up-to-date (although that's old compared to the new iPods.) The point is, the iPod itself had really no scratches. Shipping was also free (got it on Thankgiving weekend, coupon code GOBBLE) so that was great. It works, real nicely, I might add. I can't ask for anything else. Oh, they're restocking on some 3G iPods. 10 GB, 15 GB, and 30 GB, I believe. I'd say they did a good job on sending it quickly and all. Hmm... if you're buying anything else from them, don't do it. Ripoff prices. If you're getting an iPod? I have to say, go for it! THEY'RE AS GOOD OR CHEAPER THAN EBAY MOST OF THE TIME. CHECK FOR YOURSELF. There might be exceptions, of course, but I didn't see many.
If you don't like apple's game do as I did, don't play it.
Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
You have a coupon for 10% off any other MP3 player, yet you're not buying one because you want an iPod. If the ipod wasn't good enough for you to ignore the discount, then it too would be discounted.
iPod's aren't being discounted because they're still in high demand. Even the refurbished iPods on Apple's site are sold out. On the other hand, shopping.com lists a range of prices on iPods including $352-$489 for a 30GB model.
...They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price...
.. 'Excludes Apple iPod Players.' Needless to say, a Merry Christmas is still aways off.
.
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The other day came in the mail a 10% off coupon for various items at Best Buy, including 'MP3 Players'
Looks like "still a ways off" is $29.90
Finally:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE
(special deals page):
Refurb iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included: $229.
You didn't look very hard, did you?
Wild conjecture, but maybe it's just because they have such a strong brand name (kid wants an *iPod* for xmas, not an mp3 player) that they feel that their product is unique and that sales wouldn't drastically increase if they cut their prices (or conversely sales wouldn't drop that much if they kept prices high, because their customers don't see the cheapo competing mp3 players as valid substitutes for an iPod.)
:P
Kinda like toy fads -- what kid would want to accept a cheap knockoff "Fondle Me Herbert" doll when all their little pals have "Tickle Me Elmos"?
-fren
"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
http://store.apple.com/
Click on Special Deals near the bottom on the left column.
As little as $229 for a refurbished 10GB iPod.
You don't put your product on sale unless you have some need to put it on sale.
They have marketshare, and they have a product that's selling like mad. Why lower the price when people are buying as many as you can make anyway?
You're not paying attention! The battery lasts about 18 months and then you gotta MAIL to Apple to get it replaced for over a 100 bucks! It was $260 but they lower it. Still, bend over if you buy an iPod, fool!
I know here in Oz, that most retailers don't discount, and I never really asked why, I assumed it was just them going for higher margins. However I know that streetwise software does. They've always got good discounts on all the apple stuff.
Go to www.dealmac.com and search for "ipod". There are deals to be had on old models, refurbs, used, and open box ipods. On brand-spankin' new ones, you'll be lucky to get $10 off.
You're confusing "for sale" with "on sale". That being said, Apple-stuff is rarely on sale. Fry's had some deals the day after thanksgiving though. MacOS X Panther for $99.95 for example. I believe they also had the low-end iPod for $250 or so.
Yesterday in the Seattle Fry's I noticed a little sign ("Store special price!" or something to that effect) next to the $1299 20" Apple LCD display.
..) It's nice to have immediate gratification, I guess, but unless other retailers are selling it for more than you can get it direct from the maker, it seems a strange thing to call attention to.
Uh, that, too is the *regular* price. (unless my eyes / brain deceive me, and they had it for $1199, with me misreading the sign
"Sausages -- Special this week, not on sale! Regular Price!"
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I'm looking for an iBook this Christmas season, and I can't seem to find any discounts either. I'm not sure about this, but Apple's products always seem to be at a constant price at every retail store. Every non-online store that I've seen selling Apple merchandise is an "Apple authorized reseller". This might have something to do with it.
The best way, as far as I know, to get a good deal from these stores is to buy refurbished products.
Just remember that you can't replace the battery if it dies.
You will be buying a new IPOD as this unlucky customer found out.
...at the Apple Store
Scroll down and click on "Special Deals" on the left side of the page.
10GB -> $229.00 (no dock)
15GB -> $279.00
30GB -> $349.00
store.apple.com and search for refurbished. 30GB second-gen iPod was $327 shipped.
You'll have to check the site every so often, as the availability of refurbished inventory changes.
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
It's called Minimum Advertised Price.
Apple sets it. You can't re-sell Apple products below this set level. Nobody can.
Yes, Apple has been sued for this. (not successfully IIRC).
In fact, Apple HAS successfully sued resellers for selling under MAP. They put some of them out of business - they were called "Grey-market" MACs, they were bought overseas, and sold into the US market. (some people ended up frying the power supplies because they were set to 240 instead of 120).
Other industries have also been sued for MAP, and gotten their asses handed to them. But since Apple is *NOT* a monopoly, they can get away with it. Don't like it? Buy a competitor's product.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
10% is the best discount you'll find on an iPod, whether you are a student, get a corporate discount, or have a friend who works at Apple.
Your best bet is to wait until after Macworld San Francisco and also check on Macrumors' buying guide here. to make sure you don't end up paying for something thats considerably cheaper in a month,
Sound waves should be free!
Actually, I was not flamebaiting. Geesh, if you say ANYTHING negative they call it flamebaiting. Seriously, how is giving buying advice a worthy Slashdot article. Be like the rest of us, do your own freaking buying research.
if you buy a VW bug
These items are "for sale." Look it up. There's a difference.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
i am in the market for a digital camera. no matter where you go, they are all the same price. exactly the same price. it's been afew years since i worked retail, but this is a defense mechanism of sorts. one, since nobody is the low price leader, and everybody price matches, then nobody gets screwed, everybody sells some. besides, that way, store A doesn't run out, while store B gets screwed, which also pisses off customers. and it encourages people to buy now, because they ain't gonna find it cheaper next door. it also allows the stores to add on their own deals and warranties. this is where they make the big bucks. you even see this trend with cars. the price is the price. the real difference is in service. i for one will not shop in best buy, etc., because their sales drones don't know shit. i would rather go to ritz camera, and i know that the price is the same. manufacturers have been trying to do this for some time. there was a famous case a number of years ago with browning shotguns. they wanted all dealers to price them the same. went to court and lost. but, if you look at the hardware market, the markup is almost nil. as for ipods, you bet your ass that if you sell it for $1 less than apple without their approval, you'll never get another shipment. macmall sells their hardware for $5 less, but i guess they got a deal from apple. and besides,l they always throw more memory, etc., in with the deal. just don't expect things to change. and truthfully, i think customers like it better. if you want a good deal, go to ebay.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
... as in "price fixing".
It is not illegal for the manufacturer of a product to "fix" their own price. If you carry apple products, you carry them at the price apple spesifies. That is the agreement you sign when you become a vendor.
This is not well publicized, but it is true.
So Best Buy (et al) are not "singling out" apple for this no discount policy. Apple it doing it to the product on purpose.
For various reasons, people don't think of the iPod as having any competetors, and are looking for an iPod per se, instead of a portable media player with (some list of ) features.
So the product leader is charging a price that they feel the market will bear.
For comparasion, check out the price scheudles for Rolex as opposed to Timex. Not just the difference in magnitude of the prices, but in termos of how often each go on (discounted) sale.
Rank(ing) has its priveleges...
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Mieh? Asc, yijh hre Vroij - eer? Dree.
I followed Sony Camcorders for a couple of years waiting for a price break. It was 2 years after I bought one that the price dropped ... $100 down from $900. Nikon is pretty much the same way. Fortunately, Canon is putting pressure on them, so the D100 has dropped $500 in the past 6 months. Note that these are not sale prices ... they're never on sale.
Part of Apple's pricing strategy is that "it cost's more, so it must be good.", backed up with Apple's general image of creating superior products. I just wonder what will happen if Apple ever releases a $200 or $300 pc. Complete Mayham?!?
I have an iPod, I was quite resigned to paying list price for one. I did look high and low, but honestly, when you have the best product on the market, why should you have to discount them? Anyway, Apple is notorious about their pricing, but their marketing does allow them to be.
You discount them when your competitors actually show that they are truly competitive. Frankly most of the other MP3 players look ugly, and worse are slaved to MusicMatch.
iTunes Music Store and iTunes is worth the premium as well. If your serious about taking your tunes with you, want a very good firewire/usb drive, and have it all in a stylish and easy to use package there is only one choice.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Retailers use that list to advertise their products along with the real discounts. That's very usual, I see every week with CompUSA. The idea is that if the consumer checks it very irregularly, he may think that it is on sale, so he goes there and buys it. It is just a nice way of selling it.
That Apple gouges its customers like every other corporation out there. It is a troll post, but it is the truth.
When I purchased my iPod back in march, i was able to use my 10% coupon from best buy. I'm willing to bet that they are the ones who are keeping the price up since they know how well the iPods will be selling. You may just want to hold out till after the holidays
Yes, anything negative is a flamebait! I was bitching and moaning legitimately...how is this article News for Nerds?!
Your best bet may be Dell. They occasionally have coupons for accessories and peripherals (which might include the iPod). That's how I got a 40 GB iPod from them a few months ago for $430. Check Bensbargains and Techbargains for the coupons.
Mac news site Macintouch has a bunch of discounts available via Amazon links. Here are the ones for the iPod:
iPod 10GB: $284.05
iPod 20GB: $379.05
iPod 40GB: $474.05
~Philly
If you're worried about price, why not look at other cheaper options? I have a Creative Zen which was much cheaper than an iPod, with considerably more storage. Also, the iRiver iHP-120 looks amazing. Check around for reviews, and you'll find that both of these products are held in high regard. Don't fall for the Apple hype!
Op juyy OP!!
argn, heird OP!
Why do stores do this? How often? And does anyone know why Apple has been singled out while their competition has gotten their products discounted?
Because everyone knows that apple zealots are quite happy to throw large amounts of money away on any piece of crap that bears an apple logo, so they later can astroturf lickable colours, inflated benchmarks or "I get my job done faster if I first get to stare at a spinning beachball for ten minutes"
Actually, Apple offered the battery refurbishing plan a week before he publicized his findings. They probably planned to offer this deal all along anyway, but were waiting until the minimum battery lifespan had been reached.
In response to your question though, I have not used the plan, although I have spoken to an Apple Genius at the local Apple Store about it, and it sounds like a deal to me.
I agree. This looks like the subject of a chain letter or a touching story on the local evening news. For every person you send it to little Timmy will get 5 cents off his iPod.
I hear that Apple employees *do* get discounts on (certain?) products for the Christmas break. My brothers friends dad(*breath*) supposedly works for Apple in some way and is able to get a discount which has been *cough* offered to my brother, although I'm sure it's against Apple's rules and regulations.
So, if you can find someone who works for Apple, in some way that is able to get this discount, I was told an iPod is like $50 cheaper, which is nice, as well as an eMac for something around $650.
I wouldn't be able to tell you were to find someone that works for Apple, or one that is willing to "break" the rules, but it's one way I've heard.
Good luck.
If your looking at getting the best price possible you'd do well to wait until the end of the busiest buying season of the year.
Quack, quack.
But when jeffy124 finally gives in and buys an iPod at regular price (because it looks like his mind is set), Apple will have been right in keeping its prices up.
Apple places price controls in its sales agreements with third parties. This is why you will NEVER see a sale on Apple products unless ALL the resellers are have the SAME SALE. People often forget, with Apple, you WILL pay a premium for their products. Can't afford them? Well move on then to some other manufacturer. Sure, Apple could lower the price and gain more market share, but it would lose some stature too. It wouldn't be perceived as "elite" or "distinguished" as some people see Apple. It's kind of like owning a BMW or a Mercedes, if you want one, you have to pay for one, if you can't afford it, well, there seems to be no shortage of Chevy Cavaliers, Chevettes, Ford Escorts, Chrysler K-cars, Dodge Neons, AMC Pacers & Gremlins (well, now there might be a shortage of THOSE).
If store X wants to carry product Y, which is made by manufacturer Z, store X must comply with demands set forth by manufacturer Z or not carry the product. There's a minimum advertising price (MAP), which I'm sure Apple has set to the price you see advertised everywhere, under which case companies cannot publically extend a price discount below MAP. Why is this even a story?
"They're always at the regular $299/399/499 price, never at a discount of any sort. You read that right, it's 'for sale' at the *regular* price."
Yeah, there is a difference between 'for sale' and 'on sale,' unless you are a complete retard.
i think the guy was noticing that wherever you go, the prices are the same. it isn't buing advice. and he was asking why. i think that is a legit /. article. besides, there's no SCO news today, and no current unknown windows exploits, so what else we got to talk? beowolf clusters? BSD? desktop linux? then that only leaves apple.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Visit the Apple store online, scroll down, and look for "special deals" to your left.
;)
Apple sells refurbished, returned, and clearance items there. Everything has been looked over, repaired (if necessary), repackaged, and sold with the same warrantee and warrantee options are non refurbished goods.
I usually buy most of my Apple hardware this way. I've been quite pleased. Everything has worked great.
---and here's another site worth mentioning.
Small Dog has an iPod trade up program (cool!)
http://www.smalldog.com/wag13041/
Keep these guys in mind should you happen to actually buy an iPod
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Some electronics manufacturers set fixed prices on their products that retail stores must abide by. These items may not be sold for any price below the price fixed in the contract to be dictated by the manufacturer. The only time they are ever allowed to sell below that price is if the manufacturer itself dictates a sale. It's simply not up to the retailer.
I've run across a few of these products at work, the examples being game consoles (PS2, X-Box), iPods, and Bose speakers/home theatre systems. If any manufacturer were to sell below the set price, they risk losing the entire product line. On a high end product, it's just not likely to happen. I don't even get a discount on those items, and I'm an employee of one of your "guilty" chains.
Dude... Apple was all over the place advertising that they were discounting iPods and accessories by 10% off for one day only (the day after Thanksgiving I think). This was originally for brick and mortar stores, but they extended it to their online store as well
Too bad you missed it I guess... I picked up an iTrip for my iPod at the discount. (BTW iTrips suck bad... it never worked right... I took it apart and half the wires weren't soldered in correctly... I resoldered it and it still doesn't work as good as those cheapy Belkin FM Transmitters).
--- Nothing To See Here ---
I would suggest taking a serious look at Rio Karma. A very nice player indeed. I have owned it for about 3 weeks now and it's working great with a 12-14 battery life to boot. Check out this review
-Andrei
You've also got to remember that Apple is plenty proud of their products and doesn't tend to discount much.
--==-- I've found Karma to be a relative thing... Ya know, the kind you invite to Christmas...
Dear Slashdot.
I am a disgruntled individual who needs something new to piss and moan about. I've decided to pick on those annoying American, capitalistic retailers!
Who gives them the right to attempt to turn a profit during the Holiday season? I always feel bad when I have to pay full price for things because I should receive a discount. Why? Ohh, because I don't have enough money to purchase all the things I want. Ohh, but it's not my fault, its those darn retailer's fault!
To end my rant, I'm just dissatisfied with life and the world in general.
When the 3rd gen iPods came out, 20 gig iPods were being cleared out for $200-$250. Just wait for the 4th gen to come out.
Just remember that you can't replace the battery if it dies.
Uh huh. I guess I'm just imagining this do-it-yourself site, and Apple's official battery replacement program.
~Philly
end of line
Good to see that /. has turned into a personal shopping drone for Mr. jeffy124.
-bZj
.sig
On Amazon, they have them for 15-25 bucks cheaper than the standard price, but to see the price you need to add one to your shopping cart. The obvious explanation is that they're legally prevented from advertising the discounted price.
Either that or they're hoping to cash in on dumb hipster-wannabes who forget to remove it from their cart.
------- Was it just a coincidence I got moderator points the first time I logged on to
But I'm also not sure of the developer discount restrictions.
A brand new 60 Gig Creative Nomad Zen is 100.00 less than the 40 Gig iPod. I don't own one but have had two MuVos (one was stolen) and couldn't have been happier. Integrates well (at least the MuVos do) with MusicMatch which kicks the shit out of iTunes IMHO for many reasons, the least of which being that MusicMatch consistantly has songs for purchase that iTunes doesn't. And at least if MusicMatch doesn't have the song you're looking for, they still give you a bio, discography, etc of the artist and have the 'artist match' and 'on demand' options to play songs from the artist. Guess I'm veering off topic talking about iTunes vs. MusicMatch, but it seems like all I ever hear is "iPod this, iTunes that" when there are better options available at lower prices.
Apple has this policy/resale agreement with all of thier vendors called "MAP Pricing"; MAP = Minimum Advertised Price.
...but if you're being real cheap about it, check out EBay
If an Apple reseller/vendor publishes a price below MAP they lose thier reseller authorization from Apple. For most resellers it isn't worth it to advertise something below MAP, they won't make enough money from one sale item to justify staying in business when they lose thier discount.
On the other hand, it is the "Advertised" price, it doen't mean that it can't be sold for less, it just can't be "Advertised" for less.
Though my company is not Apple authorized, I can shed some light on their pricing model. There's are reseller costs for the various iPods as of today. While our account isn't Best Buy or CompUSA in size, we get decent pricing for our quantity levels, so these should be accurate to within a few dollars.
IPOD 10G FOR MAC & PC PERSONALIZED - $296.49
IPOD 20GB (PERSONALIZED) - $404.09
IPOD 30G FOR MAC & PC WITH DOCK WIRED REMOTE/CASE PERSONALIZED - $481.40
IPOD 40GB 10K SONGS FIREWALL EARPHONES ADPTR IPOD DOCK - $461.21
There's also absolutely zero units available on any of these with ETA from Apple looking like early 2004.
The demand for these is so high that while there's not a ton of margin on them, there's also no need to mark them down to sell them.
It's called marketing. Stores do what you describe all the time, at least ever since Walmarts started showing invading. Just because it's in a flyer doesn't necessarily mean it's being sold at a discount (ie. "on sale"). It does, however, mean that the store is stocking it, and you can buy it there at the price listed. You can't really fault them for doing that. Unless they're actually claiming there's a discount when there's not, they're doing nothing wrong, or even remotely unethical. You also made a comment about these stores being unfair to Apple's products: "Stores guilty of this include Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and CompUSA. Why do stores do this? " You should know that when a store puts something "on sale", it's usually because they were able to negotiate a better than normal price with the manufacturer. If Apple wanted their products sold at a holiday discount, they could certainly make it happen. However, when you think of discount hardware, Apple is never going to pop into anyone's mind.
iPod has a secret? Well at least it was a secret to me... lol iPod's secret (from theinquirer.net)
Apple hardware prices are damned-near set in stone. This is because, unlike most manufacturers, Apple does not head out looking for the best price on manufacturing, design, support, etc.. Apple picks better business partners, who pay higher wages to employees. So to keep profit margins high, Apple locks its prices pretty high.
Also, don't forget that Apple has its own retail and online stores, because very few retailers have ever done a good job at selling Apple hardware. Keeping those stores profitable is key to keeping the company aflot. The last thing Apple wants is for everyone with an Apple store and a Best Buy near home to go get Apple hardware at Best Buy at a discount.
Dell has discounts in their S&P store all the time. Dell sells IPods. 2+2 = 4
.8). If the coupon is only good at the small business store, then you'll most likely have to pay sales tax (small possibility at home store as well)
Dell had a 20% off all purchases in their home store coupon this past summer, so I was able to get my 30GB ipod for $400 w/ no tax ($500 *
I realize that price fixing has occurs when competitors collude to artificially inflate prices. But when a manufacturer imposes these kinds of price floors on its products to its retailers, the effect is pretty much the same, as far as the comsumer is concerned (higher prices than would what would normally be determined by supply/demand). Why is it legal for Apple to impose minimum retail prices, while it would definitely be illegal if a bunch of retailers got together and agreed upon a price floor on their own?
I think it is morally wrong to use the correct meaning of words to describe what you are doing.
Seriously though, settle down on the whole morality thing with regards to minor issues. Once you've done that, go look up the word "sale" in a dictionary and then try and claim that the retailer is lying.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
This again is my personal preference as I've had at least 2 types of every generation since the original.
Why would I choose an IRiver IFP 395T (512 meg) over an Ipod 20gig and up?
Size
You can hang it from your neck with the included lanyard
You can strap it to your arm with the included holder
No movable parts so no skipping unlike the ipod
The Ipod is overkill in terms of storage (The Iriver can hold 5-50 cds depending on the sampled bitrate but normally I'd say around 6-10)
The Ipod is too big & heavy
The Ipod battery fails after about 18 months and costs over $100 to replace
The Ipod is just a notebook/laptop hard drive in a clean looking case but just as fragile
as any other hard drive
I've read nothing but excellent reviews for the Iriver mp3 player and own one and it's the best I've ever had.
I had the 30 gig Ipod and I found it too bulky, fragile, and even though I have more gigs of mp3s that an Ipod can hold I still find it to be overkill in terms of storage. I never thought I'd say that but it's true.
Searching for a song when you have many 1000's of them is just too much searching when you just want to get to what ever your activity you're doing.
The Iriver's 512 megs is the abolute minimum I'd accept but encoding mp3's at a decent bitrate makes for plenty of storage.
I didn't say it was cheap either at $299 but more of a better option.
I don't agree with the argument that you get more storage for the same price from an Ipod. What's the use if it's overkill?
If it was an external hard drive or something along those lines I'd agree but it's not.
My 2.223 cents
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
Alright, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut... But I work retail (at EB) and this has always been an annoyance - especially over the holidays.
On sale means that items are being sold...for example, "On sale now!" means that the product is currently available in stores for your purchase. Not necessarily that it is available at a special, lower price.
Yes, I realize that "on sale" can also mean that you've got a new, temporarily lower price...but it doesn't have to.
We get signs up all the time for new games and products that say "on sale now", and then people get upset when we're charging the same price as our competitors.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
This is standard operating procedure for stores of all types. Walk into any grocery store, walk around looking for the "On Sale" or "As Advertised" price stickers, lift them up & look at the regular price sticker underneath. Sometimes the regular price will be more, sometimes the same. The only difference is that sometimes the price is advertised. How many times have you seen things advertised for "Our Everyday low price"? If it's everyday, then it's not discounted, but they are advertising it as a low price anyway.
Of course, just because everyone does this doesn't make it nice. I find it really annoying, but it's usually easy to pick out what are actually discounted sale items, and I am usually satisfied if I consider my purchase to be a fair price.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Join moola.com, play games to earn money.
I've bought lots of electronics recently including a new Sony RS430G desktop, a 19" ViewSonic LCD, a UX50, lots of stuff. Price shopped most of it. Most stores including CompUSA, BestBuy, even J&R Music World had them at the same price as Sony or ViewSonic do. I was also looking at an H.P. desktop, similar range ($1500 do-it-all box), and it too wasn't discounted anywhere.
They're probably moving back to MSRP as a real price because they can. But this might not mean you're getting a bad deal. I couldn't have built nearly as good a system as the RS430G for that price. (The HP is another matter; I'm convinced after owning several of their printers that any HP driver software is pure unadulterated evil.) So it might be not that we're getting shafted but that even the lowliest of consumers are benefitting from the Information Revolution and getting decent prices across the board.
I work at one of the stores that you mentioned and the way that Apple has the pricing setup is that the store can actually sell the Apple items for whatever price that they want to but *CANNOT* advertise a lower price than the price that Apple sets thier items at.
Just because they have the ability to sell them items at whatever they want to does not in any way mean that they will. So don't get your hopes up too much.
What you are seeing is an example of "price control." Price control is a relatively common practice, especially for companies that create higher-end products and have limited (or no) direct-to-customer distribution. Essentially, Apple has the ultimate discretion as to which retailers it will sell iPods too. In order to qualify to carry an iPod, that retailer, be it Best Buy, Circuit City, or any other, must enter into a binding agreement with Apple as to the pricing of the unit. Under that agreement, discounting of the units is generally either completely disallowed, or allowed only with manufacturer approval. Thus, the Best Buys and Circuit City stores HAVE to sell the iPod at whatever price Apple tells them to.
Where it starts to get shady is when a retailer that hasn't signed a price control agreement with the manufacturer gets their hands on the price controlled units, and starts selling them at a price below the manufacturer's price point. This generally happens when a retailer that has an agreement with the manufacturer unloads some overstock or demo units, when a retailer goes bankrupt, or when a shipment "falls off of a truck." Many manufacturers that use price controls get very, very unhappy when this happens. Most price controlling manufacturers will cut off sales of product to retailers that sell overstock to discounters. This can lead to shady, under-the-table dealing, units with serial numbers ground off so the manufacturer can't trace who sold it to whom, and general malaise. Most manufacturers won't honor the warranties on items purchase through third-party discounters.
If you think Apple's price controls are nasty, take a look at the high-end watch world. Companies like Rolex won't even allow retailers to advertise the prices of their watches AT ALL. Take a look at a jeweler's ad in the newspaper for Rolexes- they'll always say something to the effect of "call or visit for pricing." Watch companies are also well known for forbidding internet sales. And they put out propaganda to the effect that all watches sold by discounters are counterfeit.
It's the manufacturer's world. We're just here to consume.
--Use this space for notes--
Just go to the apple store and on the left hand column towards the bottom is a link with a red tag that says "SAVE" and special deals written above it. They are offering some good prices on refurbished hardware, laptops, ipods, desktops etc.. Snag em now before those are gone. It is christmas after all.
What you are seeing is called MAP. Minimum Advertised Pricing. Retailers agree as part of their contract to sell Apple's goods but not advertise them below what Apple says they can. This doesn't mean they can't sell them for less so it's not price fixing, they just can't advertise them for less. Since none of the retailers have any reason to cut the price unless someone else does, no one does, thus guaranteeing the best margin they can get for the product all around. HP, Epson, Canon and a myriad of other brands do this also. Retailers who violate MAP typically get penalized with loss of advertising support, higher costs to them (therefor less profit) etc.
The Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) is a price set by Apple to the retailer (I work for CompUSA) and we agree not to advertise it for less than the price set by Apple. That's why you never see it "ON SALE" for less than the everyday price.
go to the Apple website. Click to go to the store. On the left hand side, about half-way down will be the 'Special Deals' section.
This section will have refurbs and 2nds at a steep discount. I got my 30 GB iPod for $269USD approximately 3 months ago.
Check back frequently, products and storage size availabilty changes daily.
That if you can't keep them in stock at the regular price, on-sale is probably a pretty fair promotion in a sunday ad if you know you'll have some in. "For sale," might be more accurate, and informative, but considering the drooling morons that put those things together that stretches the bounds of plausability.
There isn't so much collusion. What happens is all the chains pay people to go in and check out what the prices are in the other chains, so if they are overpriced they can adjust their prices downwards.
Right now, iPod's seem more of a status symbol than actual value, this with their somewhat limited supply, and Apple's brand means that they can command a premium, and Apple doesn't have to drop prices even as production and sales increase. I wouldn't expect to see iPods on sale until a retailer has a mess in inventory that haven't sold, and don't look like they will, with new inventory coming in on top of them at the old price point.
For my money, I've been looking into a Neuros 20GB mp3 player. Also does line-in, FM, and mic recording to mp3, and broadcast to nearby FM. All for $199 American. I thought that sounded pretty sweet.
I am planning on buying a 40 gig 3rd gen ipod tomorrow, and they are priced at 479 at my school. You may want to goto a university in your area and see what they are selling at in the bookstore. Most of the time you don't need a student id either. Might save you a little money, and no shipping
go to best buy, buy an ipod at full price. bring it back the next day. say you had some compatibility issues with your motherboard or some crap like that. give some money to your buddy and tell him/her to buy the openbox item!!! there's your big discount!
solved.
I'll sell a new 20GB iPod for CDN$545 (Regular price: CDN$575) Call me at 1-800-603-8966 x6230. We have lots in stock.
Reality has a liberal bias
Apple sells refurbs on their "special deals" section of the store.apple.com site. They are discounted, but come in plain packaging, not the cool box you get on a new one. Didn't matter to me.
I bought a 10gb iPod refurbed for 249 a while ago. The unit was not cosmetically refurbished. There were scratches and dings on it. I had to return it once for further repair. Still, I saved a few bucks and now the unit is OK.
Just know that a refurb may not be a walk in the park, and if it's a gift for someone else, they may get a very used-looking one.
The web site dealmac.com keeps track of the best prices for Apple-related products, including ipods. Right now, none iPod of the deals listed are especially great (eg they list the 10 GB iPod for $229.00 from the Apple Store), but there should be updates soon.
Denn wir sind wie Baumstaemme im Schnee. Scheinbar liegen sei glatt auf, mit kleinem anstoss sollte man sie wegschieben
I have the windows version and I want to get the songs off it. Any ideas?
you're the coolest there is in town
pumping ipod while jogging around
elitest snob with 40gig of sound
spent five hundred just another dumb snook
sold your soul to the biggest corporations on the books
micro-soft starbucks mcdonalds list them down
elitest snob with 40gig of sound
drink that coffee drink it down
Here you go:
1. Education Discounts - Find a kid or a teacher.
2. Apple Consultants Network - http://consultants.apple.com
3. Apple Employees - that's some good action if you can get the hookup. I'd rather not say much about that for fear of an Apple Lawyer shoving a sock down my throat. (It's where I scored my iPod from, and I'm a certified ACN member)
4. CompUSA employees - they can buy at CompUSA's cost.
The discounts are out there, you just may have to put yourself in indentured servitude or buy a bunch of beer for someone (especially in the case of the CompUSA employee, Apple employee, or the kid).
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Good deal available on Ebay and elsewhere, especially if you're willing to get a last-gen model.
I got my 3rd gen 15gig ipod for $279 through the specials section of apple's web store. It looks like they are out of stock, but if you keep an eye on it you can get decent deals.
Not only did my refurb arrive looking brand new, but it has the exact same 1 year warranty as a new ipod.
Apple (just like any other manufacturer) charges the stores X dollars to carry a product (the store actually has to buy them...). This is called the wholesale price. Now Apple's wholesale price might be really, really close to the MSRP. In order for a store to make a profit, they MUST charge more than the wholesale price.
Video Game Consoles and other hardware usually has a high wholesale price so the retail price is usually never discounted. Software (Games, CDs, DVDs, et cetera) usually have a very low wholesale price so some stores will give you wicked discounts on them in the range of 10%-30% and in some stores even %50.
If you shopped the day after Thanksgiving in an Apple store, you got 10% off on an iPod. Sorry you missed it.
I bought a 10gb model at Target.
I signed up for the Target credit card and got an instant 10% off. That saved me $30 right there.
Then they gave me a smart card reader, and another 10% off my next credit card purchase, plus another 10% off any on-line purchase.
Wow. I'm done. It was easy, and to be honest I haven't used their card since. Maybe I'll start using it if my current "favorite" card continues to screw me with their crazy rules.
i have spent my life looking at and considering apple products, and never buying any of them
apple is a toy for the rich and upper middle class
any of you out there who wants to dispute this?
i will bet you are rich or upper middle class
i have an iriver iFP-180T, $100 a month or so ago...
128MB Internal Storage
Real-Time MP3 Encoding
FM Tuner & Recorder
Voice Recorder
Store or transfer any file type
most of those features are things the ipod doesn't even have
ipod has reams of storage, but iriver and others make products with similar reams of storage
plus, i run with the iriver, in the rain and in blizzards i run, and i'm not taking a mechanical harddrive with me, no matter what the salesmen say
i think people who want apple are hopeless hipsters, who lust after the products even when there are better products from other companies
additionally, those who actually have apple, are stinking rich
to hell with apple, it's a tool for the rich and hopeless hipsters
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Join AudibleListener for 12 months and get an iPod for $100 less. Naturally you'll spend $14.95 per month on the AudibleListener account for 12 months, but you'll also get one audio magazine, newspaper or radio program plus one audiobook each month. What, you expect something for nothing?
Oh yeah. Tell 'em sdmb sent you.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Target has the 10GB iPod advertised this week for $299, but it is listed as "low price" instead of "sale." I work for Target, and I know that Target only advertises something as "sale" if it is actually discounted. I don't know if the same can be said for Best Buy or any of the other retailers. The "low price" distinction is similar to Wal-Mart advertising their "everyday" low prices. Just like in all advertising, you gotta read the fine print :-)
Why are you letting society put so much pressure on you? You're running around like a headless chicken trying to get something that you can't really afford. Don't let society do this to you, and you will be so much happier. If you really are going to find a use for an MP3 player, get a cheaper one and spend the money you saved doing something social with your family/friends. If they shun or pressurize you for not having the coolest gadget, that's their problem not yours, and they're probably not worth having as friends (family's another issue).
The above post should be modded down to Troll. What a dickhead. I wish I had some mod points right now.
Vertical price-fixing -- an agreement between a supplier and a dealer that fixes the minimum resale price of a product -- is a clear-cut antitrust violation. It also is illegal for a manufacturer and retailer to agree on a minimum resale price.
This is why you always see an MSRP: manufacturer's *suggested* retail price. However, it is legal for a supplier to stop supplying a product to a seller that does not abide by the MSRP. Thus, if store wants to keep selling iPods (while making a tidy profit) they have to abide by Apple's pricing scheme.
If you signup for an account at audible.com, they offer $100 off a few mp3s/pdas including the iPod. The catch? You've got to get a one year subscription, which will run you $180-240. I guess if you listen to audio books, its worthwhile. Any thoughts?
Sale (in French) means dirty. The French offered a discount on dirty (dent and ding) items and then the English picked up on the word. Or it's just a funny anecdote I just pulled out of my ass
I saw the PS2 on the Best Buy sales circular for sale at $179.00 on the day after Thanksgiving. I figured it must be a deal. I mean it's in the sales circular and it's the day after Thanksgiving.
Well, I go and do a little price shopping and guess what.. everyone sells it for the same $179.00 new. I check out the ad again and Best Buy doesn't have it on sale, it's just in the circular.
Some stuff just doesn't go on sale. I really dislike the way prices are controlled. Paranoid guy that I am, I'm sure it's The Man that's doing this and somehow making even more money of me.. oh well.. no PS2 for me I guess.
I've heard the best place to get a cheap iPod is at a pawn shop. Think about it; what's the first thing to go when you REALLY need money? It's not the car, it's that luxury item that you can get some decent bucks for. A friend picked one up for $75...
I used to work for an Apple Reseller here in Australia, and I can tell you one of the reasons why we didn't dicount iPods: the profit margin for resellers on Apple hardware products is 8%. We sold something for $2000, we got $160.
That gives you a bit of room to move on products that sell in the thousands, but on a product that sells in the hundreds, there's not much discounting you can do before you're giving it away with no profit.
(I'm posting anonymously as I don't wish to leave myself open to any potential legal retaliation)
I guess this doesn't really count, but I know that here at Cornell they're doing a Christmas sale on iPods for students. They're charging $239/$329/$429. The rest of the year you get $30 off the retail price.
Just one of the perks of college, of course they make up for it by charging insanely high tuition and attaching fees to everything.
http://ipodlinux.sourceforge.net/
I don't see why these retilers don't discount Apple products. I work for an Apple reseller and we are constantly discounting Apple items. We do have to comply with a Minimum Advertised Price, though. Apple usally keeps the MAP pretty high to keep retailers from fighting for the business. The only thing would probably be the demand for them, that's why other retailers are not discounting Apple products.
Besides an Educational discount, there is a Govt. Worker discount as well. You have to buy directly from Apple. Check out apple.com/federal click on "how to buy".
Reminds me of my neighbor, Richard Abrams, who is in the paper distribution business (which is huge). He owns West Coast Paper company. His big, yellow trucks ply I-5 all ove rthe place. I was buying for my org, so I asked Dick for a discount.
"Sure!" he said. "How big a discount do you want?"
"You mean I get to choose?" I asked. Wow! Nice neighbor. It must pay to know people in high places.
"Sure!" he said again. "You tell me what discount you want, then I'll tell you the retail price!"
Guess there's a reason he's still in business.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
Keep an eye out for Dell's stackable coupons... they often have $35 off $350 and $45 off $450 pretty regularly. Many times, they will have these in addition to a blanket %10 off all peripherals. As of a few months ago, they were not excluding the iPod although they will occasionally exclude some items. Keep an eye on this site, as they usually report any Dell deals on a regular basis.
i smell a price fixing lawsuit....
I am very confused by the many posts claiming that price fixing is legal, as long as there is no collusion among suppliers.
I worked in retail for many years, selling high-end electronics (audio, and later video, components). Price fixing on the part of manufacturers was absolutely forbidden. It still went on, but the government could come down hard on someone if they found out.
There were a number of clever ways manufacturers used to get around these restrictions. The most popular was a 'minimum advertised price' policy linked to advertising dollars (i.e., you got a rebate if you sold things at or above the recommended minumum price).
I have been out of the business for several years now, but I find it hard to believe that things could have changed that much. Could someone with solid current information please clear this up for all of us?
Apple has always controlled prices on their products even if you do not buy the product directly from Apple. You would think that Apple would sell more iPods if they allowed their stores to control pricing however that could undercut Apple's direct buyer market. They control hardware, software, and prices which can be positive and negative depending on how you view Apple.
Only the largest distributors ever do this, and it is only by about $5.
Also for many retailers Apple products just don't have a lot of margin, i.e. very little profit, so there just isn't much room for discounting until a product reaches end of life (EOL) and all pricing restrictions are removed.
Shawn's Tech Articles
I bought mine and the same thing happened, but then I noticed my school's bookstore had it for 25% off. Apparently there is an education discount on these suckers.
So get yourself to your local college bookstore and either find an oblivious checkout clerk or contact a friend who has a friend who is still in college.
You save at least $40.
In addition to the 10% from the Target Visa discount, you also get a giftcard for 15 bucks this week. So that basically knocks $45 off of the price, as long as you can find something else at Target to use the $15 on. Not a bad deal, although iPods are still a liitle too much for my budget.
Well, before they were selling their own units anyway. I got my 30 gig for ~$414 with free shipping, and a co-worker got the 40 gig for the same price about a month ago. Look for a 10% discount, and then a coupon for an additional 40 bucks off...you can often see the deal posted at ipodlounge.com. And free shipping too.
"Thank you for your support of the iTunes Music Store. At the Apple Store, we carry iPod and a full line of accessories, all designed to help you get the most from your digital music. We hope you'll drop by and take a look. Shop the Apple Store online and save $25 instantly with this coupon when you place an order totaling $249 or more by December 27,
2003."
I got that in my email on 11/21/2003.
The Apple Federal Store offers discounts of $30, $40, and $50 on the 10-, 20-, and 40-GB models respectively.
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
Check for iPods that are "Open Box." They are usually returned by someone who upgrades or downgrades size. They can't be sold as new, so must be marked down. Just bought a 20GB this past weekend - $339. Added in the 4-year Best Buy warranty for $40 to cover the battery and basically anything else that goes bad within 4 years. Also persuaded a fellow customer to take the iPod over the Nomad, even though it still cost him more and had a smaller hard disk. I don't think that Apple needs to drop prices to increase demand.
I know this probably won't happen for many of you, but I swear this to be the truth..
:-)
I sent my wife up to Best Buy when they were having their 10% off thing this weekend. I already saw on the coupon it said mp3 players 10% off (except Ipods). I told her to take it anyways, but then she lost it, ah well - so she did take the double-your-best-buy-reward-zone coupon.
She picked up the 40G ipod, a armband case or whatever, and the extended service plan.
At the register, she gave them her coupon, and the girl working the register said "Do you have your 10% off coupon as well?", and my wife said she didn't, so the girl went to a couple other registers to find one!!! She let it go through, too.
And, my wife doesn't know what happened after that, but she started talking, walked away, and found another 10% off coupon.
So, everything we bought only cost about $520 after tax. Ahhh.. And I was going to be content getting my 800,000 reward zone points.
iPod is the MP3 player to have. Kids, geeks and grandmas dont want a portable MP3 player, they want an iPod, and rightfully so - its one / THE best MP3 player currently available.
.. I'll just suffer with my CD/MP3 player combo for the time being.
The fact that stores are continually sold out of iPods is simply a sign that Apple could get away with charging more then what they are right now.
Sure, if stores were continually over-stock on iPods as people were not buying them due to the cost, a price cut could be justified.
But, Apple will continue to sell these things faster then shortstacks at the IHOP, and will do so for a long time now.
Me?
Buy a Creative Nomad Zen NX instead. Much better than the iPod.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
IPod clones are coming. Not in time for Christmas, but by next year a 10 gb 'ipod' will be less then 200.
Not that I am trying to plug this product but after having bought my Nomad I came across an article that talked about a huge flaw with the I-Pod which is that the battery cannot be removed and that Apple will replace it for you at a price of around 250$. In other words you not only not get a discount you also have to be prepared to pay alot more further down the road.
After reading that article I really started to appreciate my investement in the Nomad player even if the interface isn't as good as the Ipod's wheel and software. It took a few days but I found ways to navigate it.
I'm not telling you to buy the same thing I did, I'm just telling you to really look at what you are paying for before putting down alot of money. Considering how much you pay for these products, I think it's really worth taking time to find the right product for you than just getting the cool looking one. To me it was more important to be happy with my player than to have the wow factor.
Hope this is useful.
Are you a federal/government employee by any chance? I know they give discounts to those who are. Also I believe certain discounts can be given by the salesmen at the Apple Store especially if you know them.
next time try fewer exclamation points.
------- Was it just a coincidence I got moderator points the first time I logged on to
One reason there aren't any price breaks is because they'll sell @ that price. AFAIK it doesn't have anything to do with Apple putting their foot down, but I could have been out of that loop.
... it can be "On Sale Now!" or "On Sale!" Discounted.
When the 40gb's dropped, we'd sell out whenever we got more in. It was like that for 2 months.
Btw on sale is ambiguous
It used to cost $255 to get Apple to replace the battery, but after this guy got the word out, Apple mysteriously dropped the price to $99. Or you could go for a third party battery for $45.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
J & R Music and Computer World has a 10 GB Apple iPod for $283.99. I know this isn't the greatest of rebates... :-(
Check for iPods that are "Open Box." They are usually returned by someone who upgrades or downgrades size. They can't be sold as new, so must be marked down.
Just bought a 20GB this past weekend - $339. Added in the 4-year Best Buy warranty for $40 to cover the battery and basically anything else that goes bad within 4 years.
Also persuaded a fellow customer to take the iPod over the Nomad, even though it still cost him more and had a smaller hard disk. I don't think that Apple needs to drop prices to increase demand.
There is a wonderful thing in the world of sales called Map pricing. I don't remember what it stands for but here is how it works. Certain brands do not allow their products to be sold below a certain point without their approval. Such companies as Sony XBR, Bose, Whirlpool, Velodyne, Maytag, most video game systems, etc. What happens is you can't sell it below the set price, it is part of your dealer liscense. This is why you will see disclaimers such as "does not include, bose products, select sony products, and apple ipods" Companies do this so their product does not become a loss leader or a traffic driver They want to create the image that their product is worth the price since you never see it on sale. Stores who violate this can lose their dealer status, I have seen it happen to a montgomery wards over bose, and a lowes store over maytag products so most stores will not run this risk.
"I don't blame the sports stars for their obscene salaries, I blame the fans."
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Sears is one of them.
They announce a storewide 10% off sale but they are using the manufactures sticker price.
So guess what, they aren't loosing any money it's an advertiseing gimick to get you to come to the store.
Furniture stores are always having a flood sale.
Car dealers are always having a sale.
hmm if computers have come down in price over the years how come cars have not.
Oh well, I guess it's going to take the Japanese and Koreans to force discount prices.
Dealmac.com is usualy a good place to find them. Also check Apple's hot deals, you can probably get a refurb. If you ask me though, the best thing to do is to wait untill after x-mas and go try to get a deal on the open box reutrns.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
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Thank you for your attention.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
AC comments get piped to
http://www.techbargains.com/jump.cfm?id=98
Merry Holidays to u
J&R is offering $100 off any iPod if you sign up for audible.com's monthy service. The monthly fee is $14.95, and entitles you to one book and one program (Car Talk, etc.) a month. So, if you are a big fan of spoken word, audio books, etc., it's a pretty good deal. Best I've found, anyway. And their price is about $10 lower than MSRP as well.
Jerm
Oh, you're not a real doctor, are you?
Best discount I found:
;-)
Nomad Zen NX [not a commission link]
50% more storage than the 20GB iPod, at 2/3 of the price. There's a 60GB version, at less than the cost of a 30Gb iPod.
It's got replaceable batteries, and unlike the iPod, you don't have to remortgage your house to buy a replacement battery. 14 hour claimed battery life. (that's between charges, not 14 hours until you need a new one
It's got a big-screen, it's small, light, has a charger. No GNU support. No OGG. No remote control.
I used to work for one of those retailers you mentioned many years ago and I can tell you the fliers that come out usually advertise items but are rarely advertising a sale. They show the items and the price but most time don't say "on sale".
We used to give out rain checks all the while telling people that it was the normal price and they really didn't need one. They were either confused as to why it was in the flier and not "on sale" or thought that having the rain check meant they would definitely get one. We usually didn't get the stuff back in stock anyway.
Because they aren't fixing a price per se, they are setting a minimum advertised price. If you check arround you can always find it for less, they just can't advertise it for less.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Another reason for rebates over lower sales prices occured when a previous president unwisely instituted price controls. Sale prices were, in some cases, interpreted as MSRP, and could no longer be raised after the sale was over. Rebates appeared in much greater numbers thereafter as a defense against another similar policy.
That's a nice story but I call bullshit. Product designers dont work with clay anymore, they do it all with CAD software.
Or so they claim. Could make Xmas a little happer for you.
P.S. Post those HOWTO details to a website, will ya?
I know this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but if you're a student, Mac will give you a 10-30% discount if you buy a whole system. That means, if you buy a whole system (at 10-30% off), you can grab a 40Gb iPod for 399USD. Check it out
I bought my fiancee a 20gig iPod for Christmas, but I got it here in Bermuda.
:)
I should be able to get it in the States for $400. Had I done that, I would have then needed to have it shipped here - assuming that was for some reason free, I would then need to pay at least 22% duty on it, and more than likely 33% (it never is clear to me what gets the 33% electronics/computer parts duty - it isn't as obvious as it sounds).
It is hard to buy things in the States since I have American credit cards, but a Bermudian billing address. Companies frequently won't ship to Bermuda, so that means that I have to get it shipped to the States - which means that the billing and shipping address won't line up.
So then I have to call the credit card company, and then the place I'm buying from, and then call some more, and then they call each other... and then there is a conference between all of us...
I have really stopped buying anything since this happens all of the time. Oh - and the 1-800 numbers aren't free here - so I get the long distance pleasure of it as well as the joy of being on hold.
So all in all, I just said screw it, I'm gonna buy it here and suck it up.
I paid about $650 for it here. Then they said that for $90+ more I could get another year added to the one year warrantee. Well, I knew the thing was going to die in 18 months, so I asked what this would let me do - I asked if it dies, do I just get a brand new one? The guy said that was indeed the case, and I signed up.
So a mere $700 something, I had me an iPod.
Now I am considering a Sony Ericsson T616, and I am thinking that even though I can get it for between $219 and $265 in the States... I would rather not have to go through all of the crap.
If I get it without a service plan, it is $450. It isn't clear if it will be any different with a service plan (I already have one with them).
In the end - I miss the easy availability and the economies of scale. But I don't miss much else
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
if you buy a new VW Bug?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Buy another brand.
Ipods are not terribly special. While they are rather smallish by a small margin, they also have terrible battery life.
It seems a lot of people like the later incarnations of the Creative Zen for the price/capacity price point. I'm no fan of Creative as a company, but having poked around myself it seems the Zen NX/Xtra are good deals in comparison to the Ipod. IRiver is also good, but about ipod-ishly expensive.
The other cool option is the Rio Karma, which has neat things like a network interface.
But again, I have found no way to get better capacity/price than the Zens.
Here are the developer prices for the iPod:
10GB: $239
20GB: $319
40GB: $399
Disclaimer: This comment was generated by a Flock of Trained Microsoft Programmers for Aqua_Geek.
a *new* iPod for anything less than retail price is hard to come by. check out sites like dealmac.com, ipoding.com, ipodlounge.com. you might find links to places that offer 10% off or something similar.
somebody mentioned the educational discount, if you know somebody who has access to the educational prices, you might save 10-25%. you can usually get refurbished iPods, directly from apple's online store, or from resellers like powermax.com. if you want the absolute cheapest price, you can get a used iPod from that site or ebay or other, but you'll really have to be careful if you go ebay.
i'm also currently looking to get an ipod for a good price. those are all the tips i've come across so far.
ecost.com does have SOME deals,but dont expect much. I mean like $5-$15 cheaper. If you sign up for their hotsheet you'll get an email about twice a week from them telling you whats on sale, and the ipod often shows up.
Now that I have your attention, there's a reason why Apple doesn't discount iPods.
First, the short reason:
- Because they don't have to... everyone wants one and everyone who's had Economics 101 (except for ex-Governor Grey-Out Davis) would know that once a manufacturer finds their sweet spot on the supply curve, only a shift on the demand curve would require them to lower their price. As it stands, demand is high.
Now, the really short reason:
Whaaaaaaah, I want my iPod and I don't want to pay market price for it! Everyone else's MP3 players suck worse than an Oreck!
A longtime mac bloggish site is linking to amazon, and offering actual discounts on a variety of apple hardware. Including the iPod.
Click on over to MacInTouch for a little bit off. It's linked off towards the bottom of the home page. It's not a huge discount, but the only one I've seen:
iPod 10GB: $284.05
iPod 20GB: $379.05
iPod 40GB: $474.05
Anyone seen my low uid? last seen 10 years ago while panning the #@$# out of Taco's 'web based discussion system'
If you call the store, you'll find that the Apple Online store charges the exact same price for most major items as every authorized apple reseller out there... down to the dollar. The parent post about giving free upgrades, but not messing with the base price is indeed correct.
Patently untrue. There are a great many industrial designers such as myself who use clay and putty to create new forms. It's a more dynamic and organic process when working with your hands. CAD transform is the last step.
Dealontheweb.com keeps an eye on great deals on iPods and other fun goodies. iPod deals, if any, can be found down in the Consumer Electronics section. Check daily as they update their deals often. (No, I'm not affiliated with them at all.)
I just asked Froogle, Google's product search engine, and it offered these results for a 40 GB unit. The best price on a new iPod it found was $464.00, which is about 10% off.
http://www.darrenbarefoot.com
Words. Words. Words.
Apple has shown once again that they can't sell anything at a competitive price. They only rope in suckers who believe their marketing hype that they actually have a better product.
I was the GM at an Apple dealership for many years. Apple enforces what is known as "MAP" or "Minimum Advertised Price" If you advertise an Apple product below the MAP price, you're in jeopardy of losing your advertising co-op. The co-op is a fixed percentage based on your sales that Apple pays back to resellers to defray advertising expenses. And for what it's worth, the profit margins on Apple hardware are from 2-7%. As an example a $999 iMac cost us $978. If a buyer used a credit card we lost money!
Apple had a discount the day after Thanksgiving at Apple Stores, offering 10% off of all Music merchandise, including iPods.
I used to work for an apple reseller, and the problem is that the wholesale price on apple products is close to, or exactly the same, as the MSRP. Most other computer companies do this on their computers, the markup is normally around 1 or 2 percent. This is why the stores always try to sell a warranty, the warranty's an software are really where they make money. Apple can get away with selling the iPod for more thant the other HD based players because it is better in my opinion.
fatwallet.com
mysimon.com
pricewatch.com
pricegrabber.com ?
The first site is a great place to find great deals at larger retailer sites (and lots of not-so-large ones). People post what deals they find. The other ones are competitive shopping sites where you can compare prices. (Check more than one, and check the DETAILS!)
tell me what products you have deisgned and I'll make damn sure that I send a letter to the company about what a fucking lame design it is so that you lose your job.
thieving scumbag.
Please - why the shock and surprise? Apple doesn't have to lower the price, for Christmas or any other reason. The ipod is a hot item - for whatever reason. Apple will get the sales, whether or not the 1/2 dozen of you who think that they should lower the price or you just won't buy one continue to have your little coniptions....
Apple has very strict price points they sell and have their resellers sell their products. Best Buy/Circuit City/whoever contractually cannot lower the price without Apple's say-so.
So suck it up: pay the man or don't...we are from the government - we are here to help...
Apple had 10% off iPods the day after Thanksgiving. If you really need a rebate wait until the next version is released. Stores often sell the old version at a discount.
The day after Thanksgiving Apple retail stores and the Apple online stores had iPods at 10% off for all buyers.
Apple discounted them on the busiest shopping day of the year. What more do you want?
Find yourself an educator....
Then go to this routing page: HERE
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
One of the things that's allowed Walmart to keep its internal costs low is that nothing on its shelves is paid for by them until it is sold. I read this about Walmart's operations a few years ago though, before they carried much in the way of current electronics.
FWIW, I don't think that you were all that obtuse either.
However, the practice of the "eternal 1/2 off sale" varies from state to state in the US. In MA, for example you cannot claim that a price is a discount or percent off, etc unless you can show that someone purchased the same item at the higher price. It is not enough to simply offer an item for a higher initial price--someone has to actually buy one.
This doesn't fix the "sale/for sale" issue, but it does prevent sleazy "1/2 price sale!" ads on the radio for the same store every weekend for 10 years.
Once the battery goes dead on one it becomes trash because your unable to change the battery once it looses it ability to recharge.
Apple must have overlooked such a huge design flaw.
Go Surf.
Apple has offered 10% discounts in the past (for example Nov. 28). Dell was notorius for having 5-15% discounts on iPods this summer. When Target was carrying the older style iPods (before the new ones were released) they had them for as much as 30% off. A good deal on a iPod isn't hard to find if you're patient and know where to look - i.e. not the sunday ads, dumbass.
While this doesn't address your question, I strongly suggest you avoid iPods as their battery life is short [6 hours - which neuters the purpose of having a 30 gB HDD], they're fairly pricey, the preamp sound quality could be better and you will end up paying to get more features [if you want to record with your iPod, you have to buy an add-on that will let you record to 32kbps mono MP3 - not good for much other than voice.]
:-) You don't even need special drivers or software to transfer files from/to computers, so it works as a portable 20 gB device, including under Linux.
:-) [personally, i own an iMP-550 and find it outstandingly good in every way. I do not work for them, though I would love to.]
Your best alternative would be the iRiver iHP-120. It boasts a 16 hour battery charge life [it achieves this regularly], superb sound quality, high quality MP3 recording, Ogg Vorbis support, digital + optical line in/line out, frequent firmware updates with new features/enhancements/bugfixes for free [the newest update added lyrics support, for instance], text file viewer [read e-books], USB 2.0 High Speed, fabulous build quality... it goes on
Also check out reviews from ign.com and CNET. Don't miss the customer feedback, but watch out for trolls & astroturfers.
iRiver are a company that respects their customers and earns their money. You will see it in the tone of their announcements; hell, they even offer to replace the iHP-100's [and most likely the iHP-120's] lithium battery for free if you use it a lot. They have gained success by selling products that are worth buying and do not go obsolete as easily.
I know I sound like an iRiver pimp, but this company has truly lived up to its hype and therefore deserves my pimping services
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
... is to buy it off eBay. I got mine at a HUGE discount, still in wrapper. Sadly it turned out to have been stolen, but I helped PC Plod find the seller and so got to keep it.
On dealcoupon.com they had a discount from Apple Store online for $25 off any purchase over $249 - I no longer see this discount. But I went to local Apple store and the offered to match the discount for an Ipod.
It doesn't improve their tax position.
If the company makes the item for $100, sells it for $350, and then pays out a $75 rebate, they have $175 of net income. They have to pay taxes on that.
If the company makes the item for $100 and sells it for $275 then they pay taxes on $175 of income.
To put it in your terms -- the company has to pay taxes on the "more revenue" they got through having a higher list price. You forgot about that part when you were thinking about the tax benefit of mailing the customer a check. The two things offset.
You are right about the personal information. Who's the best prospect for buying a new model of iPod? Someone who bought an iPod two years ago, of course!
Plus there is some percentage of people who buy the product but don't get the rebate. But nn the other hand, there are customers like you and me who say "ahhh, fuck it" on a $350 product with a $75 rebate, but we would just buy the damn thing for $275, so the rebate does lose them some sales compared to a simple flat price.
"I must defend my pathetic genre of choice at all costs!"
I actually sell these things and I can tell you that outside of AppleCare there is no Apple product that has much margin in it. if an iPod is sold at full retail it comes out to be about 13% margin. thier desktop and laptop line are at 10% exactly and the eMac runs at about 3%. if you don't see discounts, blame Apple, they have to give resellers like me a cost break before we can lower the price. keep this in mind as well. the iPod is one of the most expensive MP3 player options out there and they have about a third of the market. they don't need to discount them to get them to move.
yeah, i got modded down yesterday for saying that windows is still a better game development platform than linux. then modded down again for pointing out that it was just my opinion (and not an uncommon one either.)
half the moderators haven't ever read the moderator guidelines. they just cream themselves over the opportunity to moderate but don't really have any insight so they look for stuff that they either don't agree with or don't understand to mod down.
the good thing is that that type also waste their mod points on bullshit posts like this one, and leave the moderators with actual insight to mod up good posts.
and get a $20 certificate at the Apple Store :)
(that's what I'm doin', but the certificate hasn't shown up yet)
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
On the contrary, Apple is following very closely the laws of market economics. It charges a price that may not sell the most an item but allows Apple to make enough money to continue operation, production, research, and maintain a profit. Just because the iPod isn't part of your market, doesn't mean it isn't following the "rules".
By the way, go to www.bestbuysux.org, I love that website. Funny as I've never actually bought anything there.
Call me picky but according to www.m-w.com
Main Entry: sale
Pronunciation: 'sA(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sala, from Old Norse -- more at SELL
Date: before 12th century
1 : the act of selling; specifically : the transfer of ownership of and title to property from one person to another for a price
2 a : opportunity of selling or being sold : DEMAND b : distribution by selling
3 : public disposal to the highest bidder : AUCTION
4 : a selling of goods at bargain prices
5 plural a : operations and activities involved in promoting and selling goods or services b : gross receipts
- for sale : available for purchase
- on sale 1 : for sale 2 : available for purchase at a reduced price
"I do not need an iPod"
Actually, I admit that I'm not much of a music fan. And if I was, I would be humming/whistling my own tune. Try it out sometime, you might like it.
If you really think you need to have music in year ears everywhere you go, try blowing $50 on an MP3-CD player first before you think about spending serious dough on a music device:
Obligatory PA ref
It used to be a little known clause in Best Buy's store policies that any item purchased as Open Box was given a free 4 year warranty. A lot of times the sales guys would try not to give it out, but when reminded of the policy, they would.
Bought a tv, vcr, stereo, speakers, car gear of the same and a couple other random things that way from them a few years back. Never got a chance to use the warranties.
Actually, I keep a regular eye on ipodlounge.com. they seem to be pretty good about putting potential iPod discounts in the news section on their main page.
Also, as someone else suggested, hook up the educational discount. Even if that means registering for classes at the local community college, getting the discount, then dropping for a refund. I believe the discount is roughly 25% though...well worth it.
Apple products are natoriously pricey! Yeah, this seems like a flame. However, as I am the link to the digital devide among people of my small community, they always want technology if it comes at a low price. From your basic computers to cell phones and, recently, MP3 players. I have never recommended an apple product of any sort because of the insane prices for performance (seriously). I'd continue with more... But I'm already starting to shake with "Apple Hate". Get a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra. It is just as light and shapely as an Ipod with about $7/GB less for a pricetag. In fact, Amazon.com is currently selling their 30 GB models for $262 with free shipping, can't beat that, guarenteed.
-----
Make Love not [Browser] War!
Most people will scoff at you for getting the extended warranty. I have found it is a good deal on some very specific items.
The iPod is a great example, do to the cost of replacing the battery.
Full computer systems are also worth it. The only IBM clone I ever bought, I had an extended warrenty 5 years, 50 bucks. after 4 years, the monitor went, they shipped me a new one, the even paid postage. A month later my mobo died, the sent mye a new one, and a substantially beefer proc. and RAM. Basically upgraded my complete system for 50 bucks.
All this assumes a reasonable price one the extended warrenty, naturally.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I work for best buy and i can tell u that we would love to see the price on the ipod goes down- but until apple lowers their price on it there will not be enough margin to do any kind of serious discount. most sale items go on sale at a discounted price because the manufacturer offers the product at a cheaper price and/or offers manufacturer rebates.
Celebrating the birth of Christ or giving gifts or whatever this season is supposed to mean, actually means nothing because you can't afford an iPod?
I recommend checking out: ipodlounge at least once a day until you find a deal you like. They frequently post deals on iPods. For a while Dell was offering some pretty good deals, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped selling iPods. Best of luck.
It's got replaceable batteries, and unlike the iPod, you don't have to remortgage your house to buy a replacement battery.
If you have to get a loan for $49, you probably shouldn't buy an iPod.
Or any MP3 player for that matter.
- Tony
I got $40 discount for buying an "Open Box" iPod at Best Buy. Someone had returned it, nothing missing. I had to reformat the drive, but big whoop.
The Apple warrenty and extended Best Buy warrenty covers everything.
Apple only "discounts" hardware after the technology is unsupported/dead. This was my best option.
Consider it, I am very happy.
I know the iPods are selling really well, and iTunes is poised to capture the digital music market, so why isn't Apple's stock going up? It's been going down for months, and I don't understand why. Anyone want to clue me in?
As a part-time student (taking just one class at a local University) I am eligible for apples education discount on computers - including iPods. I think its only a $50 discount, but its better than nothing.
I just bought myself a 40GB iPod as my big Xmas gift to myself. Yeah, I was bummed that I missed the day after Thanksgiving sale Apple was running -- but then again, that was also a horrendous day to try doing any shopping. All the crowds and hassles with parking, waiting in lines, etc. probably made it worth waiting and paying the extra 10%.
Another little tip I've heard, though, is to find a buddy working at a CompUSA store. Supposedly, their employee discounts on Apple products (of all types) come pretty close to the same thing as Apple's educational discounts. One of them should be able to buy you an iPod for at least $40 off or so.
Also, don't forget, Apple offers a number of discounts similar to the "educational discount". They have a lesser-known military discount, and a discount for govt. employees too. So you should be able to find *someone* who qualifies for one of those.....
In the grand scheme of things though, I figure an iPod is a pretty pricy little toy, any way you look at it - and if I was going to take the plunge and buy it, I'm not going to incur a bunch of extra hassle just to save less than $50 on the thing. I just paid what they were asking, got my instant gratification, and figure I'll make up for it by avoiding the urge many folks seem to have to waste money on useless iPod accessories (leather cases and the like).
Yes, believe it or not. I am a Mac user (since OS X). I own an iBook and an iPod. But as much as I love Apple, I also own a number of PCs.
On the Mac boards/forums, there are zealots who not only claim that Macs are faster but they are cheaper too! Of course, they are always comparing Mac prices to RETAIL PC prices.
I argued that this is hardly comparable. Many, if not most, PC users never pay retail and it is just they, the Mac users, are used to pay the full MSRP as suggested by Steve and love it!
And then I get called a PeeCee troll...
Apple can't force them to sign a contract, but they can say "do this and we'll never sell you anything again."
Hey, mod this post up. (I don't see how it's off topic people!!) If apple isn't going to cut prices, another competitor will - and sounds like they did. The Zen isn't made by Apple, and all the Apple "loyalists" will ignore it as a result, but for the average consumer, this product competes very nicely. The iPod is built well, very well that is, but with the battery problems it has, the Zen has that advantage of removeable batteries and a lower cost. The only thing the Zen doesn't do is sync up with iTunes and play a propietary Apple format... which doesn't bother me one bit to be honest. I can't speak for the quality of the Zen, but I'm sure it has a warranty.
If a car or computer or mp3 player is selling faster than you can make it at a 50% margin why on earth would you reduce the pricing?
I bought my iPod (30gb Third Gen) from Dell.com for $399.10 with free shipping and no tax. Quite a steal considering that it retailed for $499. Dell used to run 10% off software and peripherals with some frequency and I found a stackable $50 of $350 coupon to really bring the price down. However Dell has stopped selling iPods since they introduced their own player.
My advice is to buy someplace where you don't have to pay sales tax since tax on such a purchase can add up quickly.
it's a fabulous fm transmitter and you can get one for about 30 bones from radio shack.
I use to manage a movie rental store. We had a lot of overstock on movies for sale and were directed by corporate office to put them on the "Clearance Shelf" but the thing is, they were still full price.
Corporate said that "clearance" didn't mean "on sale" only that we wanted to move it out of the store.
J
Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit.
That's what I paid several months ago, so it's probably even less, now. If you can live with refurbished, you'll save a bundle. I haven't had any problems. In fact, I almost trust refurbished products more than brand new ones, because they've been checked over a second time, presumably more thoroughly than the first time they passed through the QA department.
I suppose skipping could become an issue
A workmate of mine bought an iPod a couple weeks ago (mainly for Audible support). He tried replacing his iRiver in the gym with the iPod. Gave it his best shot. It skipped too many times and he returned it to Circuit City. There's only so much you can do with a spinning magnetic disk.
Some people have had battery problems
The worst issue with the iPod battery is its small capacity. Apple have trimmed it right down. The PortalPlayer design is incredibly parsimonious with how it does read-ahead into the RAM to limit access, but it's still a huge factor.
I notice that the iPod's cousins, the other handhelds based on PortalPlayer (Samsung and Philips) get around 15 hours on their batteries at the cost of a couple of cc extra volume over the iPod.
Da Blog
I bought a "store demo" unit for $170 from DealExpress.com. Although it took them 6 DAYS!!! to ship it (so much for my overnight shipping fees) it came in the box with all accessories, manuals, CDs, etc.
This was for last years model, the 10 GB version. So I can't use many of the accessories designed for the newer iPods. I don't have the dock for example. But I get better battery life and I paid less then $200!
tbdean
Click on "Special Deals" on the Apple Store website and buy a refurb. I did and I'm perfectly happy with it.
It was $50 cheaper than anything I found on eBay. Which would be a good question for Ask Slashdot... gotta do that.
The Apple Store online has a refurb (aka "Special deals") section. I've bought quite a few Apple refurbs and I've never had a problem. Also, Apple retail locations often have refurbs if you ask the salespeople.
Read the last line again...that definition does mention a reduced price.
- on sale 1 : for sale 2 : available for purchase at a reduced price
Black and grey are both shades of white.
As I'm sure others will point out, it is Apple that is the guilty party, not the retailers. A place like Circuit City would LOVE to discount the iPod, but their agreements with Apple prevent them from doing so.
Sure, they're free to sell them at any price that they want - except that Apple will cut them off.
Seriously, the best thing to come out of apple is the Will Farrel testamonial. If you haven't seen it, it is hilarious. .49 cents for them.
Back on topic, apple is a bunch of computer nazis spreading the propoganda that their product is worth the extra money. By doing this they create a very nice little niche' for themselves. Rich republicans with enough bling and not enough math skills flock to the mac. The truth is that apple needs that niche' to survive. If Apple deregulated, toshiba or acer would be making iPods by the million and charging
--Always, I mean never..., No I mean always check your references.--
I got my iPod cheap through the educational store, bundled with my PowerBook. (Ha, and you thought the draconian comment was venom spewed from an Apple hater)
Of course this doesn't apply to most people, but if you're affiliated with a university or other level of school (including K-12) you might be able to get a discount. Go to the Apple web store and click on Education, then select your institution. I got $30 off my iPod, though the deals are better for bigger ticket items ($300 off Powerbooks, etc).
How about a brand new, 3rd generation, 30gig iPod for almost the same price as the 20gig model?
Amazon has the discontinued 30gig model for $399. The 20gig is $379 I believe, though most places have it for $399. I'd call 10 gigs for $0-20 more quite a discount.
There's simply no reason to ever buy the 20gig model when there are new 30gigs around for the same price.
And the fact that it's discontinued is not a big deal. Still full warranty, blah blah blah. I haven't verified this, but I hear you can even get CompUSA's extended warranty for $49 no matter where you buy it!
Carl
Vote Libertarian
1. They can earn interest on the $75 before the rebate gets processed
2. "Not responsible for lost or misdirected mail."
As far as taxes go, they're probably worse off with the rebates since their initial income is higher. I'm not sure how the tax code works for things like refunds and so on; they might have it worked out that it counts as fully deductable, in which case it's a definite tax advantage.
If X means A OR X means B then it is the case that X does not neccescarily mean A. Can you understand that tough guy?
X = "on sale"
A = "reduced prices"
B = "items are available for purchase"
And this is the end of me wasting my time on you.
Just curious.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
SmallDog.com - Good people...great prices and service.
from a former apple retail employee:
apple almost *never* gives discounts. there are 2 exceptions:
1. a major retail holiday: i guess you missed the deals on black friday in the apple reatil stores (everything relating to ipods was on sale).
2. a major release party (ie.the iPod release, an OS release)
historically, anytime there was an instore special event, or special hours, there was a sale involved. you might also want to keep an eye out for the opening anniversary for your local store. for the first 30 or so stores, there were 1st year anniversary promos.
but to get the *best* deal on an iPod or an Apple CPU, you better get chummy with someome who works for Apple. Not only do they get a personal discount (25%) each calendar year, they are allowed to provide a pretty nice deal to 3 lucky people (15%) called "Friends & Family" each calendar year as well. Besides, they can also give you the inside scoop on instore refresh sales as well.
Refresh would be a previously opened product which was neither defective nor repaired. In some cases, it simply means the box was opened- product never used. Right after xmas, you'll see *alot* of that in the store due to buyer's remorse or a nice gift gesture gone bad. So happy hunting and good luck!
The advertisements they send out in the papers are not sale prices, and no where does it say "On sale".
The point of the Sunday advertisements for these companies is to annouce products and their prices. People assume that the price is a sales price.
Think of it this way, the Sunday print ads are most spam. You have to filter out what is on sale and what isn't.
I keep a mental note roughly of the regular prices for certain items. If it shows up in the weekly ads, I'll know whether or not its on sale.
What drives me nuts though is getting a coupon for BB and not being able to use it cause its only valid on nonsale price items (10% on home theater, good for this weekend only!!!), which is nothing, cause they've put everything on sale!!!!
I love it when the sales staff is trying to tell me the 6% discounted sales price is worth more than the 10% discount.
My brother found an ipod on ebay for about 150$. Although it was a bit scratched up, it was still good.
A Closer Look : MP3 Players to Rival Pricier iPod
Meanwhile, competing manufacturers have shipped a series of MP3 players with iPod-esque capacities and sizes but lower prices: Creative's Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra, Dell's Digital Jukebox, Rio's Karma and Samsung's YP-910GS Napster.
All four sounded great when playing MP3 or WMA files (including copy-controlled versions sold by major music stores, but not Apple's AAC downloads), provided excellent battery life (from 10 to 16 hours) and allowed fast transfers of music from Windows PCs via USB 2.0 connections. All employ wheel or rocker-switch controls to navigate through the thousands of songs stored on their hard drives but less elegant up/down buttons for volume.
Refurbished iPods (with Dock Connector) Units subject to stringent refurbishment process prior to sale. iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included $229.00 iPod 15GB (Mac & Windows) $279.00 iPod 30GB (Mac & Windows) $349.00 Education discount is also available if you qualify... Then again I think this post is ridiculous...go bargain shopping w/ slashdot's help.
C'mon lad- this is Slashdot. If there's one thing we can't stand is people holding back opinions. Now, chin-up, look your peers in the eye, and tell us what you really think! (Oh and ignore my sig while you're at it.)
The Rio line of MP3 players is made by Digital Networks (used to be made by SonicBlue, before that, by Diamond.) Creative Labs makes Nomads. Try again.
They make the manufacturing costs back by a small margin but could never hope to make the R&D costs back. That is what they have to make back on the games.
A blog about stuff.
> The company selling the product sets an artifical price limit. In order to be able to sell the product you have to sign a contract agreeing to the price point.
That's close, but MAP is actually "the minimum price to be used in advertising that the manufacturer helps to pay for". Not collusion exactly, but the idea is: if Apple helps pay for the companies ads, then Apple gets veto power over Apple product prices in those ads.
Apple doesn't require that dealers sell at a minimum price, but they make sure that those MAP funds are awful hard to pass up. So does Sony and Canon and everyone else in the biz.
What's to keep you from buying, say, a 10GB iPod ($299), and a 40GB 2.5" HDD ($139 at newegg.com) and putting the 40GB HDD in the iPod. Then, you would get a 40GB iPod for ~$439, plus you would have an extra 10GB 2.5" HDD lying around. You could put the extra hard drive in a 2.5" external enclosure with firewire and usb2 for just $40 extra.
Admittedly, when all is said and done, this would be quite a bit more work, would only save you $20, and would likely void any warranty.
Does Apple do something to prevent this? I thought they were just regular 2.5" hard drives in the iPod (I could very well be wrong, though.)
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Here is how it works at the computer store I work at (we are an authorized reseller): We pay MSRP for the product and at the end of each month (I believe that is the time frame), we get a certain refund from Apple. This effects not only the standard pricing you see, but employee discounts as well; since there is no "at cost" pricing on Apple products, the non-marked up price that our employees get on just about everything else in the store doesn't actually exist; thus we have to buy Apple at full MSRP. Just my side of the story.
the ipod has a certain plastic feel to it that glossy paint cant duplicate. also, paint cant fake a LCD display.
Hoping this was how I was gonna get that discount, I set aside time this weekend to drive to Delaware in order to skip out on my local state sales tax too. I turned the coupon over, and in the legal disclaimer was the phrase 'Excludes Apple iPod Players.' Needless to say, a Merry Christmas is still aways off."
It sounds like the trip would take you a couple of hours at the minimum to complete. You'd save 30 bucks and another 10 bucks on shipping by buying online from an out of state dealer. A four hour trip would then come to 10 bucks an hour, not counting the fuel you'd most likely liberate CO2 from. Can I rent you for 12 bucks an hour? I've got some chores which need doing.
If you've got 300 bucks to spend on a portable music player, you can afford 40 more. Cease whining about "not getting a deal" and just drop the cash, you'll be a happier person. Spend the time you would have spent in a car or asking slashdot on a bike ride instead, listening to the iPod, instead of worrying how to get it for a few bucks less than MSRP.
somebody bent my whookey.
"Christmas does not yet seem very merry to me yet" Please put things into perpective, Jeffy. There are billions of people out there who won't even have a meal during Christmas this year, let alone an iPod. There are countless others who have no family, or are terminally ill, etc and may not live to see another Christmas. I certainly hope you find your Ipod cheaply, but I hope you find some holiday perspective first....
The best deal I've found is that Amazon.com is selling late-model 30 gig 3rd Generation iPods for the same price they're selling 20 gig 3rd generation iPods. They're also really pushing them, obviously to get rid of inventory...
Statistically speaking, there's a 99.998% chance that my IQ is higher than yours. Get over it.
Just go check out a deals site like Fatwallet or Anandtech... It's not hard and this should be a big "DUH" for all Slashdotters. I bought a couple of 40 gig Ipods for $430 apiece off Dell and resold them for $40 profit each. Happy seller, happy buyer.. Yippee... Not hard at all.
.02
cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
I know here at Cornell they don't care about ID's when you buy the iPod, and they're selling the 10GB one for $200... Check out the education channels (campus stores, etc...), they're a bit cheaper.
Are you another sad geek who has no social skills and is completely out of touch with society?
Stop splitting hairs and try for one second to understand how and why the word is used in the real world. Just 'coz something is technically correct doesn't mean it will translate to real world usage. Look at how broadband has come to mean highspeed when it means nothing of the sort. Remove your head from your arse and take a look around.
I can't believe this made it to the front page, but I'll bite.
1. Ebay. Duh. (Half.com, too)
2. Apple Educational Discounts.
3. Apple Refurbished products (through the Apple Store).
4. Dell's online store has frequent coupons for 10-25% off.
5. Amazon.com maketplace has used stuff.
The sad fact of the matter for you is that you will not find it much cheaper than the list price. That is because lots of people want it at the list price, and it is not worth it for them to lower the price for you. If you want an iPod, which is the best and most popular mp3 player on the market, you have to expect to pay for it. Comparisons have been made between Apple and BMW. Both offer high quality and fashionable products at premium prices. If you want economy, buy an Archos Jukebox or a Creative Nomad. Slow and ugly, but cheaper. If you want the best, be willing to pay the price.
All that being said, the real discounts are not for the holiday season, but after the holiday season, so if you are just buying it for yourself, wait until January. Apple always has a conference then, and they slash prices on many products. If the iPod gets updated, you would definitely get more for your money.
... is that "it's" and "its" are two different words, and if you use the first word when you mean the second, well, then you don't know how to spell.
Sorry, the automotive design studios still use clay for mockups. Ever see a clay SUV? It's quite a sight to behold before the artists paint it up. Also, automotive modeling clay has a very distinct odor which smells much different than the final product. :)
I don' know about the I-pod but the NEUROS is real cheap $200 for 20gig model and it is loaded with functions that no other device of it's kind has....
http://www.neurosaudio.com/
Such a deal, at:
http://www.cheapsville.com
Half the stuff at Fry's Electronics is returned, re-shrinkwrapped with a sticker identifying it. No discount, and the stuff almost never works.
It appears, Dingleberry, that you have a disturbingly common misconception: that because only Apple makes Apple products, that makes them a monopoly. I will first give a relatively standard answer: does Sony have a monopoly because only they sell PlayStations? No. If Sony were the only company that sold gaming consoles, or held a supermajority of the market, and they actively fought to keep it that way, then they would be in a monopoly position. If Apple were the only company that sold MP3 players, or held a supermajority of the market, and actively fought to keep it that way, then they would have a monopoly and your position would be reasonable.
The other difference is that between monopoly pricing and price fixing. The former can only be done by a monopoly that holds a supermajority of the market in a particular commodity (a single company). The latter can only be done by what is commonly known as a cartel, a group of companies in the same industry that get together to decide what the price of the good or service they all sell should be. If they collectively hold enough of the market, they can keep prices as high as they want, because the competition cannot make enough of a dent in their market share to really compete.
You can be sure that even if the market share of the iPod dropped from its current level of (I believe) about 80% down to 40%, Apple would not lower the price by a significant amount. This is because Apple doesn't keep the price high to gouge us or because they're a monopoly, they do it because that's the kind of company they are: they make expensive, high-quality, high-profit-margin items that people buy because they're the best, not because they're the most affordable. In other words, they're not a monopoly, and nor are they trying to compete on the same footing as companies like Dell and HP, which always compete on price. They compete on quality, instead.
They're worth it.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
Buy at Target and open up a Target card - instant 10% off your entire purchase plus they send you a couple more "10% of an entire day's shopping" coupons in the mail w/ your actual card. On a big ticket item like an iPod it really helps; plus you can load up on other XMas electronic goodies and save a bundle.
Well, if what this turkey says is true, then; 1) sign up for the card, get 10% off whatever. 2) buy the iPod online using the card for a total of 20% off. Now, I dont pretend to know the details of this 10%-10% new card thing...but its an idea :-)
I have about 5 of their products, including a
hard drive based MP3 player. What a waste of
money. I am not buy another Creative product.
I have owned an Apple ipod also. Nice mp3 mplayer.
I am loving my new Rio Karma though.
Reading through the comments here my mind was immediately drawn to the antitrust settlement reached with various record companies for setting minimum prices on CDs. Why is Apple any different?
Before someone argues that Apple would have to conspire with ALL MP3 player manufacturers, I should point out the music companies all carry different music catalogues, so I fail to see a comparison there. Was this a case of outright collusion among the various music companies and music retailers and does this have any bearing on enforcing minimum pricing in other sectors?
Anyone?
The only real way to save money on purchasing a new Ipod is to buy one academically. You will save a fair amount if you buy as a student, or by having a student buy on your behalf. They also offer bundle deals where you buy a laptop and you get 2/3 of the price of an ipod refunded after a mail in rebate. It's sweet if you can pull it off.
I'm thankful that my wife left me with our two kids and went shopping. She picked up my 40GB at 10% off!
http://www.tinytelephone.com/
Simple solution to a simple problem. Go to Apple's website and go to their Store page. On the left hand side, it says Government. Click buy for yourself. Agree to their little thingy and the prices drop from $299,$399,$499 to $269,$359,$449. Can't beat that.
CompUSA does this in just about every single ad they circulate. They do it to generate traffic for people who don't know any better. That's pretty much the entire reason CompUSA exists: People don't know any better.
As far as if Apple will discount the iPod? Don't bet on it anytime soon. The only reason iTunes was released free for Windows was because Apple hoped it would help fuel iPod sales.
I'm a sophomore in college. I am paying entirely for my education, as well as paying all my own bills and rent, without help from parents or investment accounts. I am not a rich person by any means.
And yet, I still have enough money to make rent and tuition AND afford a G4 and 17" Apple LCD monitor.
I agree Apple products are stinkingly expensive, but you do not, in fact, have to be rich to afford them. You DO have to be rich to afford a dual 2GHz G5 and 23" LCD, but reasonable hardware is within the grasp of poor college students.
believe me, those 400 bucks spent are worth it all the way anyhow.. a nice discount would atract even more customers and all those stuff... yeah.. it is still worth each and every buck i spent on it...
Well, not really. Had dinner with a friend at apple and he's like, "hey, you want any hardware?" And I said, "sure, how about an iPod?" "Oh, not an iPod, we can't make those fast enough."
Well, maybe I'll get a 15" powerbook instead.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
I think you missed the point. If you got the 14 day price protection, the price would drop on the 15th. Thats how it works.
-blar
$350 for 30gb seemed reasonable to me, been happy with it for 4 months, and i think there's at least a year warranty...
s /A ppleStore.woa/70603/wo/XMHolH4Ev5yk2UcmLluXPIEe1PQ /0.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.3.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?72,51
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObject
When you register and pay to become an Apple Premiere developer you get 10 Apple Premier Hardware Discounts (Coupons From GOD)! These entitle you to SERIOUS discounts on any one computer system (and yes, an iPod does count as a computer system or part of a computer system.)
Here's the prices using your PHDC:
10Gig $239.00
20 Gig $319.00
40 Gig $399.00
The only catch - it costs $3000 to become an Apple Premier Developer. BUT, if you know someone who is a premier developer you can sign up for a free Apple developer account and have them transfer you one of their premier hardware discount coupons. BINGO! Serious discounts.
"One touch of Darwin makes the whole world kin." George Bernard Shaw
What's to keep you from buying, say, a 10GB iPod ($299), and a 40GB 2.5" HDD
Em, because the iPod uses 1.8" drives? You want to easily swap out hard drives, get an Archos with 2.5". A friend of mine upgraded her 15GB to 80GB.
FYI, although the iPod gains a lot of its compactness from its smaller hard drive, it's been surpassed by the Nitrus, MuVo, and others using the new 1" drives from Cornice. Only 1.5GB at the moment, but they will be 5GB by next year. They enable very compact players that make the iPod seem oversized and so, well, last year.
Da Blog
AHAHAHAHAhahaaa... you want a good deal on Apple hardware? HAHAHAHAHAHAaa.....
Wow, maybe it was worth the imminent troll points just to brighten my day.
Sorry Apple guys, your stuff is pimp... but you know it's true.
Where were you? This was through their retail chain and online store as well which also included Canada through it's online store.
You can also buy them at discount through edu and gov discounts.
Also if you don't mind a refurb goto www.smalldog.com as they sell new and used models people have traded in for a new model.
Apple is suppose to be releasing a 4th Gen iPod at MacWorld so you might want to buy them after MacWorld Expo because all them will get a price break once the new iPods are introduced.
Apple also sells refurbs through it's website from time to time..but they go very quickly.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/71008/wo/dOaNYUHhfbRL2SgrDmK2aPropaP /0.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.3.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?84,58
Right now they got the following(refurbs from Apple Direct):
iPod 10GB (Mac & Windows) Dock not included $229.00
iPod 15GB (Mac & Windows) $279.00
iPod 30GB (Mac & Windows) $349.00
Also check Best Buy for open box sales.
Also another reason most reseller won't cut prices on iPods is because they are the hot item for Christmas this yr. I know for a fact at two CompUSA's here they sell between 30-100 iPods a week compare to all the other MP3 players which they may sell 5 if their lucky.
My friend at CompUSA told me they sold 2 Dell DJ's even with a sale on them. Now compare that to the iPod sales which they sold 45 of at reg pricing. So why should Apple or resellers drop the price when they sell that well even when others have discounts on their MP3 Players.
Also Apple has another thing going for it. The iPod is fashionable because it's the "in thing" to have at HS and Colleges. About half of the college girls on campus here have them.
Now if Apple comes out with it's econ. priced iPod and similar video type iPod I think they will pretty much kill the rest of the market.
This questions gets posted but my story about Penny Arcade trying to get people to buy toys for the Seattle Children's Hospital does not. WTF is going on here. Stupid questions about fundamental retail policies or helping sick kids (some of whom will die before they ever become a teenager). Hey stupid retail question wins!!!!
Can't believe no one has posted this yet.
You tell em Dan! You get what you pay for, I pay thousands of dollars for my music collection, think I'm going to go cheap on a DELL "The Brick" MP3 player? Hell NO!!
Thanks for telling me. There is no way I'd spend 600 dollars canadian for a thing that will have no support after 3 months. Probably one can purchase extended warranty?(100 dollars?)
Thinking about buying an iPoD this winter, but I listen to a lot of Asian music (Japanese/Korean/Chinese). Does the iPoD display support UTF-8/UTF-16 internationalization?
Thanks.
clever huh?
So why dose it have to be now? I mean, this is the buy season; consume consume consume; sales will be non-existent, except on things that you don't need, and prices have been slowly bubbling to get to this great season all year. If you wait until AFTER Christmas, you may find a deal, or one that someone got for Christmas but didn't want (Got two, got one of the non I-pod MP3/OGG players and likes it more) for sale in your local paper or on E-bay.
and
Why dose it have to be an I-pod, I mean, if a 10% discount on a ~$500 dollar item is enough to sway you from buying it entirely, why not buy one of the near equivalents which can be more then 50% less expensive? (I won't reprint those equivalents, because I don't pretend to know which ones are best- but they've been all over slashdot in previous articles, read, research and decide what's best for you). If it's name recognition (Maybe you have hopes that some hot girl will come up to you on a run and jack into your pod to hear what your listening to?); why not get one of the smaller ones, and put it in a broken-I-pod-that-you-got-off-of-E-bay-for-$5's case; only the trained and genuinely curious observer would notice that the buttons don't work and the headphone jack has been routered out to get at the device inside.
If it's because you LOVE apple, and you must have apple products, then the $50 difference shoulden't be anything too much to cough down over the $200 extra your already paying for it to be by apple instead of someone else.
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
I have several thousand sugar smacks invested in my huge collection. I'm not about to go with a second rate "brick" player just to save a few hundred dollars. The iPod does way more than just carry my music collection, it's a portable firewire drive, bootable disk, mini entertainment with games, contact lists, voice recorder etc. People show off their iPods, the rest are ugly bricks to hide in ones purse.
Well, as a regular slashdotter, I know where I can print out something like that if I ever need it!
I am pretty sure Apple will make their money with the xmass business. Maybe they will reduce they iPODs price after xmass is over.
In N. America, shops try to play on this with psychology by having continuous sales... they're trying to convince buyers that there's currently a discount and if they don't hurry they will lose out. Of course, as the sales seem to go on all the time, they're not really having a sale.
Car salesmen have done this forever. "Once a year only! Year-end clearance! New cars from $5995!" Three weeks later: "Once a year only! Thanksgiving sale! New cars from $5995!" Pick a local dealership and watch their ads on TV from week to week. Note how not a day goes by that they don't have some kind of "special, one-time-only" sale, and how the "one-time-only" prices stay just about the same.
Of course the car dealerships have picked up a few things from the electronics industry, too. Mail-in rebate on a "free" PC = "guaranteed trade" on a car. And by now I'm sure we all know the games dealers play with manufacturer's rebates, dealer rebates, loyalty rebates...
Take a look at the low new-car prices in the newspaper ads and you'll notice that most of the best-looking ones are the price after all the possible rebates, trade-ins, etc. are applied, plus a minimum down payment of a couple grand. The real list price of that "$3000" new car is probably more like $10000 and an average customer can probably expect to pay around $7000.
So, yeah, commodity-luxury items are all coming to be sold the same way. Before long you'll hear corner drug dealers offering loyalty rebates and trade-ins...
-- Old Man Kensey
Have you ever taken a lok at iPod pricing outside USA. 550 EUR (~670 USD) in Germany or 400 GBP (~690 USD) in UK? That is expensive! And there are no discounts here either ...
A single entity cannot engage in price-fixing. Price-fixing is applicable when multiple entities collude to keep a price of multiple competing products fixed at an artificially high (or low) amount. The iPod's price is independent of Rio or any other mp3 player manufacturer, or so we believe.
Companies that participate in agressive promotions all the time erode brand equity. Apple does not want to do this.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
The correct current spelling is
La via sola al paradiso incomincia nell'inferno.
Is this a quote from an old text?
I was contemplating buying an iPod when I got a backdated pay increment a couple of weeks ago. I sat looking at the Apple store page for twenty minutes or so, wondering if I should really go for the 40gb, when a new mail pinged into my inbox. It was a voucher from Apple for 20 off any purchase over 199. I took this to be divine intervention and ordered immediately. Now, I'm not suggesting you should pray for an iPod discount because, you know, that might be seen as slightly selfish. But I do suggest you think as hard as you can about buying one, and wait for Apple's serendipity dept. to pick up on it.
You should look for a good warranty that will replace your Ipod when the batteries start going down the crapper. Best Buy has a good product replacement service. I bought my Ipod for $225 at Amazon a few months back, they had a sale on it and $50 Amazon Gift Card. Dell used to have good deals, but shipment dates were usually weeks after your order.
.smell my feet.
Dell had been selling iPods for a while and pulled them right before the launch of the Dell DJ. They brought them back for a little while (when I nabbed a 40gig for about $400 shipped), but they appear to be gone again. I wouldn't expect them to come back now that Dell is fully behind their own player.
> The only thing the Zen doesn't do is sync up with iTunes...
That's a deal-breaker for me. I've used lots of jukebox programs on the Windows side, and I hated them all. Library management is their weakness. I was forced to revert to Winamp 2.x (no library management then) because the jukebox programs were useless. And on the Mac side (where I spend 90% of my time, there hasn't really been much effort put into jukebox/MP3 programs since we've had iTunes for so long--which does implement library management properly.
MPEG-4 AAC is not a "propietary Apple format." It's an MPEG standard just like MPEG-1 Layer 3 ("MP3"), and you are dumb.
As far as the protected AAC files from the iTMS, other online music stores could if they wish license the same FairPlay DRM technology Apple uses.
So MPEG-4 AAC is not proprietary, and neither the AAC format nor the DRM technology is specific to Apple.
> and play a propietary Apple format [sic]... which doesn't bother me one bit to be honest
Bothers me, more than a bit. I like the iTunes music store and don't want to have to transcode all the music I've bought there. I also don't much care for the WMA stores and the way their DRM works. It's not as straightforward to me as Apple's "Authorize/Deauthorize Computer" options.
> battery problems
Ooooh, battery problems. Oh, no! By the time the battery dies, I'll be ready for a bigger iPod. I'll probably get one of those $50 replacement batteries anyway, just because $50 is good for a FireWire hard drive, but I wouldn't mind buying a new iPod in three years.
> and a lower cost
This is really all there is. This is what it's all about for all you cheapskates. Go ahead and buy the cheap player if that's all that matters to you. To me, these plastic POS's are just as crappy as my friend's Compaq laptop--flimsy, plastic, and feels like it was assembled by 8-year-olds in a Mexican sweatshop. I'll take my metal iPod and aluminum laptop and you can play with a player that looks like a toy to match your flimsy plastic computer.
I fucking rule.
Ya... That sounds about right for a Mac user...
Macs are to PCs what the French are to the rest of the world...
Think about it.
I bought one of the older style 10 Gig models at a university bookstore/computer store when the new models came out. It was about 30% off. Look for similarly small Apple resellers that can't afford to keep on old stock.
What's so good about the Apple ipod?
C'mon lad- this is Slashdot. If there's one thing we can't stand is people holding back opinions. Now, chin-up, look your peers in the eye, and tell us what you really think!
Ok, I admit it.. I like the fact that Mac users give great head. Hence the Exposing my nuts to your chin.
If you liked licking my balls, add me to your foes list!
The NUJ (National Union of Journalists) gets a discount.
http://www.nuj.org.uk/front/inner.php?docid=235 Has the details and a link to their Apple store.
Apple products isn't the best in the world, but their marketing sure is.
People buy their stuff because their trully belive it's the best.
Everywhere you see graphic designers using macs, even tough they could've been applying photoshop filters twice as fast using a peecee that's actualy cheaper than the mac he's using. But they rater die to work without a mac.
And it's the same with the rest of apple products. If they give you discounts on ipods, you will stop to think... and eventualy, by thinking, you will step out of the apple paralel universe and begin to question if it's really that good mp3 player. At that point, you will probably recall that you read about the unrepleaceable batery lasting only some months, and probably will buy yourself a better, and cheaper mp3 player. So, they rater to let you thinking only about how to get the money to buy their perfect stuff. perfect stuff. perfect stuff. buy. perfect stuff. buy. it's on every movie. perfect stuff. they have cool ads. perfect stuff.
you can get a cheaper ipod at audible if you join their service, i highly recommend going this route. it gives you quite a bit of interesting content for a little money each month.
One unfortunate side effect: sadly, now all the music the individual puts on his MP3 player stinks.
Um, I don't think that you can combine the 10% offers together.
You can try... but of course it might not work!
find someone who's a college student/high school/etc. or an educator and get their discount. a friend of mine got the new 20 gig ipod (i think it was that one) for his g/f for around $250 after tax. i know it wasn't the 10 gig.
They are the only company making excellent computers and they vigorously defend that position. When another company comes up and even comes close to TRYING to compete in this area, what do they do? The blighters go and make even better stuff! They are vicious that way.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
High markups for mediocre equipment. Really, wouldn't you rather not spend the money on some trendy piece of crap, and get something functional like the Dell player instead? (Not that I'm a big fan of Judeo-Christian Dell)
It's not an iPod though, dood.
Has anyone here EVER heard of price and demand? WHY on earth would Apple lower its price on an item that is selling VERY well? Just because someone wants it is NOT a good reason to expect a price drop.
Try going into a BMW dealer and ask for a discount cause you want one. Not only would they laugh at you, they would have good reason to.
This has NOTHING to do with bad Apple business practices, just the opposite. They are selling a boatload of iPods at the CURRENT prices. If you can't afford one, get a job and SHUT-UP!
The BMW costs more than the Kia but will outperform it in just about every aspect of car-hood. However, the Apple iPod, while nice, is being eclipsed technically the cheaper offerings from Dell, etc... Of course, user interface is wholly subjective but most would say Apple still has the best UI.
So even for those fashion victims who must have the iPod look, the increased performance and decreased price of competitors will certainly bend a glance their way. Once again, Apple's genious marketing techniques ensures it'll be a flighty niche product with little appeal to and ownership by the 'average' computer user.
Blar.
Why is this on the front page? It's not exactly news....
You're probably a republican huh? That's typical of "Rush Limbaugh" or caucasian balding middle aged males, the uncontrollable urge to shout "get a job" to anyone less fortunate than you.
Oh yeah, I don't recall reading anywhere that the article poster was unemployed.
Speaking of which, Bush has a net job loss of at least 2,500,000 on his watch.
Off the subject, but the military stores (AAFES etc.) usually has Oakley's at a 40-50% price cut over Sunglass hut prices.
They don't advertise, but I have yet to find Oakley brand sunglasses nearly as cheap as there.
As the poster below states... it is ONE YEAR!!
Apples warranty/service is incredible. My iBook had a faulty DVD drive less than a week before the ONE YEAR warranty expired. Customer Support was fantastic. A box was shipped the next day and a courier picked it up later that afternoon. It was returned, FIXED, less than 48 hours later.
The ultimate source for 18th Century philosophy, wine, and oboe reeds?
Wow! Apple fanbois ARE more numerous than roaches
Hello,
I work for a rather large (fortune 1000) computer reseller, that sells Apple products. I am part of a business to business outbound call organization.
I can tell you, even though I deal in corporate sales, a fair amount of my company contacts are interested in IPODs for themselves or families. I usually "wheel and deal" for them, for the holidays. I figure it's a benny I can offer for working with me.
I can tell you that there is barely any money to be made in reselling apple hardware. If you show me a piece of apple hardware, Imac, g5, ipod, etc, that my company makes more than 8 or 9 points of margin on, I'll be impressed.
Most apple hardware is around 6 points of gross margin. About the only thing you can make good money at in the apple world is selling support, be it your own support, or their "applecare" estended warranties.
I can tell you that my company, and my competition, to compete, absolutely will not offer a discount on the ipod. At less than 8 points of margin, what's the point of selling them? We will however, offer an IPOD bundled with say, deluxe headphones, or a "mobility pack", etc, for a little more to compete and offer a deal.
You see the same thing with PlayStation 2's. 179.95 or whatever is set by contract, but you can offer discounted items with it to get a competitive edge.
I know before I was in this business I always thought "A 600 dollar thing, they make a ton of money" or "a $2000 computer, wow, i can find it for 1500 somewhere else!" It's simply not true. Due to a competitive marketprice, you are lucky to make 8 points of margin on a PC Box. And Apple... I only assume they are taking most of the margin. To be honest, I'm not sure why my company sells it.
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
http://www.audible.com/cartalk/ipod
The CarTalk guys have been pitching this "deal"
for a while - Join audible.com for a year, get
$100 off an iPod.
-mrv
I'm in the same bind. I love the iPod, but it costs a lot of money. And hey, let's admit it, cool actually matters. I see cute girls with iPods all the time...
I've been toying with the idea of buying a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra
For the price and features it looks pretty decent. It's only $299.99 for the 40 GB version at buy.com. Compare that with $494.00 for the 40 GB iPod.
What about the size difference you may ask? The Nomad has a volume of 11.88 cubic inches. (3 in x 0.9 in x 4.4 in) The iPods volume is 6.89 cubic inches (2.4 in x 0.7 in x 4.1 in). The difference seems to be the fact that the iPod uses a 1.8 inch drive whereas the Nomad doesn't.
There is a minimal difference in weight though. The iPod is 6.2 oz and the Nomad is 7.2. What do you guys think?
I don't want to sound like a troll, but i've had an iRiver iHP 120 for about a week now and it still has not stopped amazing me. It doesn't look as svelte as an iPod and cost about the same but the battery life alone makes it worth it, not to mention the free in-line remote and built in microphone. I think i'm going to put cygwin/X on it this afternoon. Just my 2 cents.
"For sale" means it's available for purchase.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
I can get the ipod from apple store using my student discount... $269/$369/$469 only saves $30, but you could use that to download all those new songs from itunes.
640YB ought to be enough for anybody.
The iPod doesn't play any proprietary formats either. AAC is a codec developed by Dolby and is part of MPEG4.
mbbac
You really are an Apple zealot in the worst sense. Apple does tend to give people the impression that their products have a higher quality when manufactured. However, my power mac 6500 still had fans that died in it equally as often as a standard PC of any brand. And your comment here:
"So MPEG-4 AAC is not proprietary, and neither the AAC format nor the DRM technology is specific to Apple."
Really. I see. So, why is it that I can't play a song I purchased on iTunes on any other device, even if it supported the ACC standard. Oh, that's right, the propietary DRM scheme of iTunes and the iPod.
"Ooooh, battery problems. Oh, no! By the time the battery dies, I'll be ready for a bigger iPod. I'll probably get one of those $50 replacement batteries anyway, just because $50 is good for a FireWire hard drive, but I wouldn't mind buying a new iPod in three years."
Fine, have it your way. Not everybody can afford to buy a new iPod in 18 months just because the battery dies. I don't care who makes a product, it will never last on the market with failure rates of a major component 18 months down the line. Imagine buying a TV every 18 months becuase the picture tube dies that often. People are not cheapskates just because they can't afford to shell out $299, $399, or even $499 because of a damn battery. But ofcourse you always have the option of sending Apple your iPod and $99 just to get a refurbed one. And I don't know where the hell you got the $50 battery - Apple charges $99 and you have to give up your iPod to get a different one. How nice.
Actually I am about as liberal as you can get, but I don't believe that everyone has an inherent right to things just because they want them. Last time I checked an iPod is not essential to living, so your arguement is quite void. My point is pure supply and demand, don't expect a price drop until a product becomes unsuccessful.
Yeah, everybody keeps saying that, but it's still important to realize that an ACC file downloaded from iTunes will play on absolutely nothing else but iTunes or an iPod. That sounds like being locked in to me.
great deal it was effectively 20% off after stacking a few coupons and discounts, not sure why dell stopped carrying it on their website. Check out fatwallet.com as well as dealmac.com.
the market.
The iPod costs $299/399/499 because people are willing to pay for it at those prices.
Example: People wanted to change the battery in the iPod, there was no option to do this. This angered people. 3rd party options became available to prove the market existed. Once Apple found out they could make money here, they offered a battery replacemnt option. To do everything Apple charges you $99 and you don't get your original iPod back. If you want to do it yourself, you shop around and pay as little as $30, but run the risk of voiding your warranty (which should have expired)
All of these costs are driven by the market.
Amazon.com is selling iPods right now for $15-$30 off through www.macintouch.com's links. And my campus store is having a holiday sale at $40 off the educational price. However, they sold out the day they got their last shipment, and now I'm waiting 2 weeks for the next one. Sounds to me like they didn't maximize their profits and should be selling at a higher price. That said, it's not fair to expect large discounts on a premium product. Go to a Ferrari dealer and ask for a deal on a 360. They'll laugh you out of the store. They sell for over MSRP because of supply and demand.
Then you're talking about their DRM, FairPlay, which still isn't Apple proprietary but is licensed from another company. All restricted media has similar issues.
mbbac
At http://dealmac.com/ they track deals on Macs and Mac related stuff.
> You really are an Apple zealot in the worst sense.
.
That's why I have two Windows PCs next to my desk that I use every day, and have used every Windows OS since 3.1. That's why I make money doing Windows support and stuff. Cos I'm an Apple zealot. Yeah, that's it. Christ, why does every article that mentions Apple have to turn into a "you're wrong because you [do/do not] use a Mac" debate? I'm simply stating facts here. It sounds like you're just pissed off because Apple, for a couple of brief years, has a lead in marketshare in this particular field. So what?
> Not everybody can afford to buy a new iPod in 18 months
Everyone's seen that silly video where the guy goes around spraypainting that the iPod battery "only lasts 18 months." So one guy used his iPod so much (and probably didn't observe good charging habits) that it dies sooner than expected. Or perhaps it was just defective. Big fucking deal. Every once in a while a battery is either defective, or someone uses a battery a whole lot, and it doesn't last as long as it's supposed to. This is true for any battery-powered device. Don't tell me you really believe no laptop or cellphone battery ever died unexpectedly. And so the iPod battery is no different than any battery. I know tons of people who have had iPods longer than that which are still fine (and in fact none with dead batteries). And sure, it's not "user-replaceable" in the classical sense. But you can replace it yourself , and if you can post on Slashdot, I think you can read the directions and do it.
> And I don't know where the hell you got the $50 battery -
This is where the hell I got the $49 battery. If only there were a website where one could type in terms and find web pages relevant to them! Oh, wait, there is. It's called a search engine
> Apple charges $99 and you have to give up your iPod to get a different one. How nice.
See this link.
"It sounds like you're just pissed off because Apple, for a couple of brief years, has a lead in marketshare in this particular field. So what?"
I'm not pissed off at Apple for any reason. I'm pissed at people who constantly refuse to acknowledge that there are competitors for things like the iPod. That's what I started talking about 2 posts ago.
"But you can replace it yourself , and if you can post on Slashdot, I think you can read the directions and do it."
So in order to replace the battery, you have to buy a "special kit" with tools to forceably pry the damn thing apart. How neat. That's great design.
" This is where the hell I got the $49 battery. "
Without the "special kit", this $49 would be useless. And if you buy the kit, you're spending more than $49 ($59 actually), when you might as well just ship the stupid thing back to Apple and pay them $99 for a refurb. So, either way you are now stuck paying over $50 for a battery for a small hand held device. Some laptop batteries don't even cost that much. And yes, I do know of all kinds of devices that have batteries go bad - and my point is, everyone of them is made to have the battery easily replaceable, without jamming something sharp into the case to pry it apart.
> everyone of them is made to have the battery easily replaceable, without jamming something sharp into the case to pry it apart.
...$59...you might as well just ship the stupid thing back to Apple and pay them $99...
Looking at my Palm m505, I don't see any sliding battery cover. I see 4 tiny Torx screws which would probably run you at least $5 for a driver. Throw in a battery for $34.99 plus $10 shipping and tax, and it's over $50 to replace the battery. Where are all the Palm users crying fraud? Palm used to use user-replaceable batteries, so you could put in your own rechargeable of choice, but they probably switched to this kind so they could better guarantee it would charge properly in the cradle (more practical than charging your AAAs a la carte) and also to make it less likely that cheap Chinese import batteries (like in the phone market) could be easily swapped in and cause headaches when they exploded, leaked and such. Apple's choice may have been grounded on similar thinking.
You are entitled to your opinion (that everything should have tool-free battery doors), but in my opinion any self-respecting geek doesn't care whether something is designed to be user-serviceable or not. All that matters is whether it is user-serviceable, and the iPod is. And while we're asking one another where we found things, I'd like to see where you buy your laptop batteries.
> And if you buy the kit,
I don't follow your logic. First you bitch that $10 is too much to ask for the tools to pop the iPod case, then you shrug and say that it's not worth doing it yourself, even though (a) you save $40, (b) you don't have to give it up for a week, and (c) you don't have to swap your iPod for a different one (mine is engraved). Make up your mind--are you cheap or are you lazy and wasteful?
...a lot of stores seem to run zero-discount "sales". I know that Kmart does it a lot, from when I used to work for them...and when I was just in there today, I noticed big "sale" signs, with "sale ending" dates and everything, hung over the TracFone card price tags...that when I lifted them up, revealed the TracFone cards were exactly the same price. Why do they do it? To call attention to the items, I guess, and hope that people will buy them and think they're getting a bargain (and not bother to lift the tag up to see how much they're "saving").
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Just a note, the latest version of the iPod has been out for about three months... that's not too long in the tooth, but... well, I just get nervous with Macworld (where new products/versions are often announced) always being about two/three weeks after xmas.
For more information on how long stuff has been out or if it might pay to hold off a month or two on that new Apple purchase see the page at
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com
By gum, them iPods are tempting little buggers...
To pick a nit, you can also engage in at least two other forms of illegal pricing. You can't be predatory, which effectively means that a powerful company, not necessarily a monopolist, can't price below cost for any substantial period. You can't violate the Robinson-Patman Act but that is really too technical. Apple does neither.
But Apple does generally engage in minimum resale pricing. That practice is generally illegal when done between a franchisor and franchisee. I don't remember how it applies - rather, if it applies - in a dealer situation.
Next time, you might want to read my posts more closely. Pour a cup of coffee, take some notes. You might just learn something, kid. You just might wean yourself of your reliance on empty insults and cussing to get your "valid points" across. (Though the list following "Banita Buttfucker" is commendable. But, considering that I already conceded that this was just your opinion a few posts back, I don't see how it helps your argument. You're arguing something already moot. Knock yourself out.)
:-)
On mac flaming: If you'll go back a ways in this discussion, I think you'll find that I wasn't one of the initial "mac bitches". It's interesting that you should blame it on the only thing you can think of blaming it on, (me) seeing as how your original quarry ("mac bitches") long ago deserted you. It's okay. It's called displaced aggression. I understand. But hey, you were already on a tangent when I came into the picture, so don't even think your "she's going off on a tangent" argument has any merit.
You say I twist your points. I'm not allowed to do that? Is there a rule against that? Hey, if you don't want me twisting your points next time, make them more solid, okay? Try to improve your logic, (or in some cases, put some logic into the mix) it's more useful in the long run. Instead of censor my criticisms, how about you make your argument more bulletproof, hmm? Just try. You can do it, I know.
(Oh hey, feel free to twist my points, too. If you're thinking that you don't need to, since I'm obviously making no sense, I don't really care. Your loss. Of course, you might want to provide some evidence as to exactly how i'm making an ass of myself. For posterity, you know?)
P.S. - I was actually thinking you were improving your logic with this post, until I read the buttfucker comment. Please explain how you got your knowledge of my purported sexual preferences please. I'm curious. No really, I am.
Like I said the same ole shit in a different package so I'm not going to keep going with someone who is as ignorant as the democrats who cry about Al Gore winning the popular voe there for he should be president. Get over yourself already.
Actually my flaming partner called you a buttfucker first so I just went with it. After mining the information on you I found it to be 100% true. Where's my proof? Who needs fucking proof? If I say that's true then it is and that's the end of that.
P.S. Why are you flirting with me via my private email? I told you I'm not into smoking your lil' sausage so find another "boy toy" as you put it so sweetly since I'm straight hetero.
I guess you'll deny the previous revelation too?
Wow. Absolutely no attempt at any intelligent words there. No logic, no evidence. Frankly, I don't know why I bothered attempting intelligent conversation with such an arrogant numskull. You want to stop it? Fine. I'm quickly losing interest in discussing any issue with someone who truly believes "Who needs fucking proof? If I say that's true then it is and that's the end of that." ... and you were criticizing me for ever believing I had anything valid. It's pitiful, really.
Why play the "I'm better than you just because I am" card now? I mean, you just getting riled up earlier, from the looks of it. Ran out of steam? Aye, it must be hard.
How exactly did you go about "mining the information on" me? I'm curious. Judging from your attempted rebuttals of my points, I'm surprised you even know that "mining" can be used in such a sentence.
P.S. - Why anyone, male or female, would want any friendly contact with such a mentally incompetent man (I'm assuming) whose stupidity is surpassed only by his ego is beyond me. But anyways, believe what you want. If you ever want to actually discuss anything intelligently in the future, I suggest you go and read up on common sense, it'll help you give yourself a meaningful life. Really. If you ever progress beyond that, I advise you to retake high school.
Who knows. Maybe later, I can destroy you again. It's been fun. Adios.
hmm. i just have to call you on this one, felonious. even if i began the "buttfucker" trait, how is it that you found Anonymous Coward and since renamed to iIIogicaI to be a female? last i checked, females cant really fuck an asshole due to the lack of a penis. perhaps "she" is a hermaphrodite. but my guess is that its a male. ah well.
oh and iIIogicaI, as to needing to pull apart your arguments, i dont need to. they are logical enough. they just go around in circles. and no, the purpose of debate is not to leave the other party without anything left to debate. that is the purpose of a court case. this is not court and you are not yet a lawyer, even though you would make a very good one of those hopeless bastards. (and given my just-delivered argument, you would make of yourself a complete ass by contending that not all lawyers are depressed.) and as far as i know, using "big words" is not forbidden in posts. or do they lambaste your intellect? (hint: thesaurus.com might aid in your piteous quest for the denotation of those terms. not to ridicule your already proven lack of profundity)
as to a need to prove my points, i dont feel like it. this is not the court of law; therefore, technically the burden of proof need not lie on my shoulders. so, fuck you. yes, that was very recondite. (and really, there is nothing wrong with consulting a thesaurus or dictionary occassionally. such tools are there to improve ones facility for oration.)
thats all i have to say for now.
jolly good night to both of you.
When Nintendo has a monopoly (NES days) they limited 3rd party developers to 5 games/year, officially to keep quality up, but also to keep competitors week. The modern notion of a game system maker separate from game makers (like Sony + MS, which are marketed primarily for 3rd party games) started with Sony's Playstation system, which was designed as an add-on/upgrade to the SNES (was going to play SNES games + multi-media CD-ROM games), Sony essentially created the new market because Nintendo pulled the deal and they had done all the R&D already.
Nintendo limited game makers to 5 games/year to prevent anyone from getting powerful. With 5 games/year, you couldn't make enough money to get big enough to put your own console out. You also had to sign an exclusivity agreement, the games couldn't be released on another platform for 5 years or something absurd.
In a nutshell, Nintendo got in trouble because they HAD a monopoly, and they were illegally protecting the monopoly. Exclusivity agreements to gain market advantage is FINE in a competitive market (like now), but not when you have a monopoly. Sega was trying to break into the market (Sega Master System, Genesis - which did), and Nintendo's agreements prevented game makers from making games for both platforms, which is illegally protecting their market.
That is why Microsoft, which exploded (Win3.1 wasn't that big, Win95 was a monopoly), got in trouble originally. Their agreements on pricing (buy Windows for all computers) was fine in an open Market with DR-DOS, DOS, DOS+Windows, OS/2, etc., all in the market. But when Win95 grabbed 95% of the market, suddenly those agreements which were designed to help them gain marketshare (you can get Windows cheaper if you are all Windows), became anti-trust violations and resulted in the original anti-trust decree.
It takes more than keeping your price up in a competitive market to be violating anti-trust law. Every company aims to be a monopoly to get monopoly pricing power. However, when you get monopoly status, you are allowed to exploit your monopoly to make profits, you aren't allowed to protect your monopoly. The theory is that while you gouge your customer to receive monopoly "rents," that creates a market opportunity for competitors. Eventually the monopoly breaks, and you return to a competitive market.
If you have a monopoly and DON'T extract rents, then there is no way for competitors to enter the market (no excess profits to grab), but there is no problem with a monopoly, because you aren't creating dead-weight loss anyways.
Alex
Right, this absurdity stems from the Saturn.
Sega developed the ultimate 2D system, and showed it at a tradeshow. At the same tradeshow, Sega execs saw the Playstation, which was a 3D system and were terrified.
They spent a fortune on the Saturn, and the theory was to sell it for $400+ to gamers for a year, before the price dropped to reality.
However, they determined that it would cost more than $400 to manufacture.
They wanted retailers to pay $408 (I beleive) for the box and sell it at $400. Everyone would take a bath to get the product to consumers.
The retailers balked (obviously at $8/machine loss, the goal would be to NOT sell systems so competitors lose money, and you sell games).
Normally, retailers make $0-$10 a system, and then make $8-$10/game, depending on their ability to get cheap prices. It's a volume business, which is why there is an obsession on big games.
Nintendo has traditionally always made money on the console... the games make the money evolved after the NES financials came out and everyone realized how much money you could make moving 8-10 games/consumer if you can get more marketshare.
I believe that the Gamecube actually sold at a small loss ( $10/system) at some point in it's cycle. I think that it was AT launch (like the first 1-3 months) because they wanted to be $100 cheaper than the rest, instead of $50-$75 cheaper).
However, Microsoft established a corporate goal of getting a consumer presence. They NEVER had one. People started getting MS computers at home so that they could work at home. As the game market evolved, enough people had Windows machines at home (work-at-home, parent does, etc.) that a consumer market evolved. But MS rightly realizes that AOL and others are gunning for them and things like Linux have a potential to eliminate the consumer market from them.
Ultimate TV, XBox, etc., they are all ways for MS to use it's cash (the shareholders money that is held by MS) to try to grab more markets. Look at MS's stock price... what would have happened if in 1997 they realized that they were an OS/Office suite maker, and stopped there. If instead of pissing away BILLIONS of dollars chasing the next big thing, they paid substantial dividends for YEARS. Their stock price would have slowly raised with their dividend increases, and start-ups might have been able to establish business models WITH profits could have played in these other markets (hell, Netscape might have been able to sell web browsers for $50/station for years, with competition, better browsers, and eventually ( $10 browsers).
Alex
There is a 50EUR-voucher which I received from Amazon for any item (except books and magazines) if you buy a total of EUR 500. Because the 40GB iPod costs more than EUR 500, you can get a 10% off the normal iPod price...
The answer is yes, me.