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At least I hope it does and it will force them to rethink their stupid Start menu removal, amongst other things.

Yes, I agree that It's a bit pissy of microsoft to drop the friggin start menu after all these years without any kind of transition period -- or with anything that has an ounce of useability in it.

There is a 3rd party program that adds the start menu back to the taskbar, http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

Just a happy user (note: it's a tad buggy when it comes to opening files from jump lists, but I hear that might be fixed internally).

Or here: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
Or here: http://www.lee-soft.com/vistart/

Uhhh...missed the memo buddy? you can kill metro like Raid kills bugs and for free, with either Classic Shell or Start 8 which will turn Win 8 into Win 7 with a few non UI bells and whistles like hybrid boot.

This is why I'm gonna pick me up a couple of copies of Win 8 even though i can't stand metro, they are gonna be selling win 8 pro for $40 which means I'll have Win 7 Pro for $40 a pop, hell that's cheaper than I paid for Win 7 Home, and like Win 7 Home it'll do clean install and install from flash only Win 8 will let you run it from the flash with "Windows To Go" which will be nice for service calls.

As for TFA its not like anybody is making you lease, you can choose to buy it if you want, no different than before. I'm sure they'll offer some extras if you lease but every company does that now, you can still just buy the thing or if you're a home user I'd just slap on libre office, for the tasks home users have it works just fine.

What are your options if you want the lastest Windows OS but don't like the interface formerly known as Metro?

Windows has always allowed for skinning. Anyone who could handle Linux will be able to reskin Windows 8 and replace the UI. For example take a look at http://www.stardock.com/

Start8 works on my MSDN copy, but I haven't screwed around with the registry crap yet. Every time I go to start messing around with it, I start screaming in horror and run right back to Win7.

The contention is that Microsoft removed the ability to boot to desktop. I've brought to your attention a piece of software that still allows you to boot to desktop. It stands to reason therefore that *any* piece of software could theoretically be written to boot to desktop. Want to employ this in a corporate environment? License it from Stardock when they inevitably release a for-purchase version. They already license their software for corporate deployment. If they don't, write your own and sell it to other corps who want it. Obviously it's feasible, and that's the whole point of this discussion.

I can't find the license terms at their website and I don't have a Windows computer to download the installer to. Can a commercial environment just install start8 en masse without restrictions? If not then that isn't any kind of a solution.

Start8 by Stardock Systems will take you directly to the desktop, without any fraction of a second in Metro. It too includes a Start orb.

well, things like http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ still work. not sure about something like litestep though.

there's a limit how much they can limit on the PC consumer version of 8. on some versions sideloading metro apps is kind of a bitch from what it seems.

http://lee-soft.com/vistart/
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

The only thing not optional about the start screen is that you boot into it. After that, you can go to the desktop and stay there for all eternity if you wish. Work there, install apps there, launch all your apps, and it looks and feels just like Windows 7 with all the performance improvements of Windows 8. If you really want, there are utilities that allow you to boot directly to the desktop, so you never even have to see the start screen. I'm sure we'll see more of these in the future, maybe even ones that replicate the old start menu if you really want. The one I linked to also includes a start button and a non-fullscreen app list.

Personally, I like metro apps and the new start screen, but the point is there are options for those that don't. Sure they're 3rd party, but Microsoft has to appeal to many customers, and they can't satisfy them all. Third party utilities that modify the stock GUI has been a part of Windows culture forever, especially since Windows XP with skins for the awful Luna theme. FRankly all this uproar about the default install options on a forum where modding, tinkering, and hacking is the norm is really surprising.

Really, and how do you do this without having to use a 3rd party paid app?

Why would you think that it would have to be a paid app? There are heaps of free programs available for Windows for doing stuff like this. My first search on Google found a couple of examples to get the start menu back.

Or you could just hack up your own start menu without any extra programs.

This concept is not new. There was a program called Calmira that made Windows 3.1 look like Windows 95. Have a look at this screenshot!

Once Win95 came out OS/2 was pretty much on a fast path to it's death.

Windows didn't kill OS/2. Sure, Microsoft's per-processor licensing agreements had ensured that OEMs shipping computers with OS/2 wouldn't compete from a price perspective (as you were effectively paying for copies of DOS and/or Windows you weren't receiving), and their weekly Win32s updates ensured that OS/2 couldn't run Win32 software better than Windows -- but all those succeeded at doing was to keep OS/2 more on the margins, ala MacOS and Linux at the time.

No, what really killed OS/2 was IBM's push in the mid to late 1990's towards the PowerPC architecture. Nearly the entire OS/2 development team was moved from Intel product development to "porting" OS/2 to the PowerPC at massive cost, with nothing to really show for it in the end (other than a few new device driver models that were back-ported into the Intel version). The Intel version pretty much languished during this time. When OS/2 for PowerPC was eventually released (apparently only to certain companies that IBM had contractual obligations to; I was once told while working for IBM that sales would disavow any knowledge of the product unless you already knew its part number), it was missing major functionality, including networking support.

PowerPC failed to take off as a desktop platform outside of the Apple world. OS/2 for x86 had been ignored for so long that it had failed to keep pace with advances in the industry. Had IBM not went off on its adventure into PowerPC land, and had committed the resources poured into it (rumoured to be nearly $1 billion in its last year alone) into the existing Intel version, things may have been very, very different. On the ISV side, IBM had convinced many ISV's that PowerPC was the way of the future, and had convinced them to buy some pretty expensive PowerPC hardware in order to start porting their wares. When OS/2 for PPC failed to make an appearance, many of these ISV's who had poured time, money, and other resources into porting their wares to this new OS either a) went bankrupt, or b) were left with little choice but to abandon the OS/2 market in favour of the Windows market (Stardock Systems founder Brad Wardell has a good write-up of things from his point of view here

.

In the end, IBM's PSP division had gone off on a wild adventure into fantasy land, spending truckloads of cash, while mostly ignoring their existing userbase. This is not a recipe for success, and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone looking back that it was eventually shelved with minimal support. I was working at IBM on DB2 for OS/2 at the time it was cancelled, and for several years leading up to this point even within IBM many people wanted to avoid being seen as having anything to do with the project -- it was a scarlet letter. It survived for as long as it did only due to it having been embraced by large financial institutions (banks and insurance companies mostly), who were very slow to move onward (and who had the money to pay for very lucrative support contracts).

Yaz

There was a /. article the other day about this:
Start8 - Bringing back the Windows Start Menu

Done and done. http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

However on a PC, the desktop should be what you get, Metro should be something you open in it. That way you can run Metro apps if you want, which is cool, but on the terms of a desktop. You can let them run full screen, or not, put them in a window. It'll seem "full screen" to them, they'll just be told that window is their screen.

While it can't do it out of the box, it seems that it can be hacked into working that way. Have you seen Stardock's Start8? There was a story about it the other day. What it does is bring back the Start button, but it doesn't pop up the traditional Win7-style Start menu. Instead, it shows the new Metro home screen - except it does that inside a popup window that's about as big as the old Start menu was.

The next logical step for them would be to do just what you say - let people run Metro apps in movable, resizable windows on the desktop. I hope it works.

Earlier versions of DesktopX for Windows and Object Bar much more closely resembled Object Desktop for OS/2. They're both essentially widget engines, and if anything I think they'd be best described as cognates, not 'very different' products sold under the same name. Wikipedia suggests that at least some code is common between the two.

If you must demand absolute semantic clarity, past the point of what is accepted in typical English-language discourse, then I will revise my statement to read 'I had no idea that the Object Desktop name once applied to something that was, at some point in history, widely regarded as not a hideous wreck,' but I really don't think that's much of a victory on your part.

Earlier versions of DesktopX for Windows and Object Bar much more closely resembled Object Desktop for OS/2. They're both essentially widget engines, and if anything I think they'd be best described as cognates, not 'very different' products sold under the same name. Wikipedia suggests that at least some code is common between the two.

If you must demand absolute semantic clarity, past the point of what is accepted in typical English-language discourse, then I will revise my statement to read 'I had no idea that the Object Desktop name once applied to something that was, at some point in history, widely regarded as not a hideous wreck,' but I really don't think that's much of a victory on your part.

And I think I'll call this a mild case of you not knowing how to read. The parent was talking about Object Desktop for OS/2, which was a very different product. Learn to read, Samantha.

I think I'll need to call this a mild whoosh. Sort of like one of those summer breezes that come out of nowhere. Thanks for the neat bit of history, though—I had no idea that Object Desktop was, at one point in history, widely regarded as not a hideous wreck.

I use the free version of Stardock Fences, I used to be a big Start Menu user and extolled the virtues of it to others. I'm not ready to go to giant boxes in Win8, but Fences and the Win7 taskbar works 90%+ of the time for me. http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/

HEX

Not so direct competition anymore. They sold impulse to Gamestop

Still...you have to take it with an even bigger grain of salt now....he has to make it out like you can't be a developer and a retailer at the same time.

Only if it's their games. If it's a third party publishers game you're still screwed because the publisher can simply say there isn't a problem and deny the refund..

If you purchased an application not published by Stardock and are seeking a refund, we must receive authorization from the publisher of the application in question to provide a full refund.

You look at the desktop a lot? I can barely even remember what my desktop background is. I see it for about 10 seconds after a very rare reboot, while I'm waiting for various maximized applications to start.

My desktop is blue. (The Win2k blue, to be precise)

I use it as a massive more-advanced start menu, thanks to tools like this and this.

To get to it to launch, find, or look at something, I use WinKey+D

The answer to all that is yes you can do it, and you have been able to do it since at least Windows 95. The easiest way on Windows has always been Window Blinds, even though in 98 and on they added regular theming support. http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/

If you want to compare the industries, it makes sense to compare the media industry to the niche game software industry. But here you'll find very similar actions. Anti-piracy is the norm. Expensive packaged software (or downloadable paid software) and expensive CDs/DVDs are analogous. Even the antagonistic attitude between the customers and the producers is similar. It's just inherent in any industry that needs to protect its IP because that is precisely what it is selling.

Which "niche games" market is that? Presumably not the independent-yet-original-and-good games market like 2dBoy (World of Goo) and Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire) compete in, where they're happy to have no or minimal DRM because pirates could be customers and customers are customers and should be treated as such.

Stardock doesn't seem to have any legal problems from doing this.

So then don't buy AAA Ports-R-US titles from the Big Boys. There are plenty of good PC publishers that have good games and don't treat their customers like criminals. Introversion is a great independent developer that makes wonderful games including Darwinia, Defcon, and Uplink. Stardock has some good games like Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilizations. If it is your thing, The X-Series is a good but complex space flight / trader simulation (think EVE Online but only not an MMO). Lastly, if you don't mind Steam, anything by Valve and many of the older and indie titles in their catalog are pretty good. Just because Ubisoft and EA want to screw over PC gamers doesn't mean that they are the only game (no pun intended) in town.

Stardock WindowBlinds anyone?
Surely of the hundreds of themes available, there must be one with the controls on the left :-P

You should look into Stardock. They're an independent studio/publisher based in Michigan that have some pretty top-notch games. They're also widely known to have a very pro-gamer stance on DRM.

Check out games by Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire) and Kalypso Media (Tropico 3). Those are two PC game companies that have publicly stated positions against heavy-handed, paying-customer-punishing DRM.

Last I heard (back when TechTV was still going) the majority of the UIs are done with Stardock.

Google desktop stopping Demigod from launching. I say "for example" since that's the example given in the article that you didn't bother to read.

Of course, as the article mentioned, Stardock is one of those companies that actual DO offer a refund; at least for customers that have trouble running their software.

Quote from their FAQ page

RETURN POLICY - Software published by Stardock

We require that you utilize our technical support services prior to issuing a refund. Tech support can be contacted at support@stardock.com. If it is determined that your problems cannot be rectified, technical support will instruct you on how to receive a full refund. Do not contact sales about a full refund without first contacting technical support. Sales will not fully refund your sale without an RMA from technical support. We do not charge for technical support.

We do not give refunds on beta or pre-release versions of software or subscription renewals. Refunds are only available for fully-released programs.

Google desktop stopping Demigod from launching. I say "for example" since that's the example given in the article that you didn't bother to read.

Of course, as the article mentioned, Stardock is one of those companies that actual DO offer a refund; at least for customers that have trouble running their software.

Quote from their FAQ page

RETURN POLICY - Software published by Stardock

We require that you utilize our technical support services prior to issuing a refund. Tech support can be contacted at support@stardock.com. If it is determined that your problems cannot be rectified, technical support will instruct you on how to receive a full refund. Do not contact sales about a full refund without first contacting technical support. Sales will not fully refund your sale without an RMA from technical support. We do not charge for technical support.

We do not give refunds on beta or pre-release versions of software or subscription renewals. Refunds are only available for fully-released programs.

2 possibilities: - if your computer is connected to the Internet, as your serial is stored somewhere in the config files, the activation takes place in the background. You don't see it, but it still there and the authorization key refreshed.

my laptop wasn't connected at the time of installation but eventually it was. Further more I use Subelt (formerly Kerio) Personal Firewall which specifically asks for permission before any program access the internet, even Firefox and IE cant access access the internet until I click "allow". Stardocks activation doesn't take place in the background, it isn't an omnipresent service, its a specific .exe called by Impluse. The Sig.bin file already showed as "activated" when I copied it and didn't seem to mind the transfer to new HW. Another feature of Sunbelt Personal Firewall is that it tells me when a program is starting another program, for example when the old Stardock Central called up activation.exe it would ask me if I wanted to allow StardockCentral.exe to launch activation.exe, I received no such warning.

Theory 1 shot down in flames.

- Stardock also usually release the first versions of their products DRM-free or with an optional activation (which is great). And it's only after a certain patch level or extra content is applied that activation becomes mandatory.

I do purchase the disk versions of their products (as I do with all my games) so it will run without impulse even being installed. As for getting updates, that is what Stardock make you register for, not to play the game but to get the updates and if you're familiar with Stardock (by your posts you clearly arent) updates for Stardock games are what EA and other major publishers call expansion packs. Activation is required for updates and authentication for downloading software from Stardocks servers, not for playing or installing. Theory 2 also shot down.

Unfortunately, like any DRM vendor, they are not very precise with how their product works. The most complete info I found was here.

Well you clearly didn't read it because it lead here

Quoteth

Activation limits

Bluntly: If we find 42 activation attempts from 29 different IP addresses and emails in the course of an evening, it's fraud. We are users of our own software too. We've added a level of protection that we, as users, are comfortable working with.

Quoteth a bit further down

What if my computer is stolen?

Bluntly: If we find 42 activation attempts from 29 different IP addresses and emails in the course of an evening, it's fraud.

Enter your email address in the form at http://www.stardock.com/support to have the latest download link and serial number for your account resent.

This explains pretty clearly what Stardock are using impulse activation for. Stardock are not counting total number of activations in so far, they are counting total number of activations against different IP addresses in a set period of time. They've also provided a method of recovery for their legitimate customers.

I also like the part where they call it "fraud" and not "theft" because from a legal standpoint copyright infringement is fraud not theft, but if the studio's used the fraud argument then the fraud they participate in will be forced into the light.

Wardell has openly said that when the activation servers are turned off they will release a patch that is independent of Impulse. Although I think this should be requirement mandated into law.

Possiblilty 3
- Stardock are not actually doing evil.

You must of forgot to type this one.

2 possibilities: - if your computer is connected to the Internet, as your serial is stored somewhere in the config files, the activation takes place in the background. You don't see it, but it still there and the authorization key refreshed.

my laptop wasn't connected at the time of installation but eventually it was. Further more I use Subelt (formerly Kerio) Personal Firewall which specifically asks for permission before any program access the internet, even Firefox and IE cant access access the internet until I click "allow". Stardocks activation doesn't take place in the background, it isn't an omnipresent service, its a specific .exe called by Impluse. The Sig.bin file already showed as "activated" when I copied it and didn't seem to mind the transfer to new HW. Another feature of Sunbelt Personal Firewall is that it tells me when a program is starting another program, for example when the old Stardock Central called up activation.exe it would ask me if I wanted to allow StardockCentral.exe to launch activation.exe, I received no such warning.

Theory 1 shot down in flames.

- Stardock also usually release the first versions of their products DRM-free or with an optional activation (which is great). And it's only after a certain patch level or extra content is applied that activation becomes mandatory.

I do purchase the disk versions of their products (as I do with all my games) so it will run without impulse even being installed. As for getting updates, that is what Stardock make you register for, not to play the game but to get the updates and if you're familiar with Stardock (by your posts you clearly arent) updates for Stardock games are what EA and other major publishers call expansion packs. Activation is required for updates and authentication for downloading software from Stardocks servers, not for playing or installing. Theory 2 also shot down.

Unfortunately, like any DRM vendor, they are not very precise with how their product works. The most complete info I found was here.

Well you clearly didn't read it because it lead here

Quoteth

Activation limits

Bluntly: If we find 42 activation attempts from 29 different IP addresses and emails in the course of an evening, it's fraud. We are users of our own software too. We've added a level of protection that we, as users, are comfortable working with.

Quoteth a bit further down

What if my computer is stolen?

Bluntly: If we find 42 activation attempts from 29 different IP addresses and emails in the course of an evening, it's fraud.

Enter your email address in the form at http://www.stardock.com/support to have the latest download link and serial number for your account resent.

This explains pretty clearly what Stardock are using impulse activation for. Stardock are not counting total number of activations in so far, they are counting total number of activations against different IP addresses in a set period of time. They've also provided a method of recovery for their legitimate customers.

I also like the part where they call it "fraud" and not "theft" because from a legal standpoint copyright infringement is fraud not theft, but if the studio's used the fraud argument then the fraud they participate in will be forced into the light.

Wardell has openly said that when the activation servers are turned off they will release a patch that is independent of Impulse. Although I think this should be requirement mandated into law.

Possiblilty 3
- Stardock are not actually doing evil.

You must of forgot to type this one.

...the horribly broken multiplayer in Demigod is an example of exactly why many people choose to pirate games rather than pay upwards of $90 (in Australia, equivalent in your local currency) for broken software.

Stardock recommended GameRanger precisely because of the major multiplayer problems with Demigod's built-in matchmaking. The game's multiplayer itself played just fine through GameRanger. It's safe to say there would have been a lot more refund requests otherwise, and it took some of the heat off Stardock while they tried to address the problems.

They even added a download button for GameRanger on their Demigod page right next to the Impulse one.

If you like what he's done, you ought to contact the company and let them know how you feel. We complain enough here on slashdot, sometime it's nice to be positive for a bit as well. We ought to encourage those who do cool things.

We do actually have a small dark "quiet room" with beanbags at Stardock.

'cause it sucked! There are better ways of getting fancy looking GUI in Windows than flat out upgrading your OS.

It is the only authentication system that actually gives you something in return for authenticating your game, and it doesn't bitch about me having virtual drive software.

Well, there's also stardock

, but their game list is more second-tier, if you know what I mean.

Steam is winning on number of games in my list right now, mostly due to their offering package deals quite frequently, as well as the 75% off deals. Even though I have a physical CD somewhere, I might just buy their 75% off($5) Stalker deal right now.

To my knowledge, two companies have expressed an interest in creating a sequel to Star Control II - The Ur-Quan Masters: Toys for Bob (the creators of Star Control and Star Control II; warning: site is entirely Flash) and Stardock (better known for strategy games like Galactic Civilizations).

Toys for Bob holds the copyright to Star Control II and its characters, which allowed them to open source the game (or, to be exact, a crude attempt to get the enhanced 3DO CD version to run on Windows, which has since been cleaned up and gained additional features such as network play) as The Ur-Quan Masters a few years ago (code under GPL 2 or later, content under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5).

The reason for dropping the name "Star Control" and using the subtitle is simple: the Star Control trademark is owned by Atari (a.k.a. Infogrames, who bought Star Control's publisher Accolade).

In other words, TFB has all the rights to make a sequel except the name (in fact, with the open sourcing, anyone could create a sequel, albeit non-commercially). However, since TFB is owned by Activision, they can't work on whatever they like (without being fired). TFB have stated on their news page that they need help convincing Activision to finance a sequel to Star Control II; they have the will, the skill and the rights to do so (albeit not the name, but that's secondary).

From TFA: £7.99 = $12.91

OK as I said before Stardock is a US company and all transactions are in USD. 8 British pounds are an approximate conversion of $10 USD. Please refer to the Stardock store for more details.

Uh oh, $15 (approx)

Stardock have said from the outset that each will have a US$10 price tag, so if you're talking in AUD you'd be correct but seeing as you mentioned Walmart I think that you aren't Australian. Seeing as Stardock is an entirely US company all transactions via Impulse are in USD (8 GBP is just an approximate conversion for our pommy friends), please see here for the actual price.

Don't let EA find out about this or else Walmarts will have to double in size to handle all those Sims addons.

EA already charges A$50 for the same level of content in the Sins expansion packs. Heck, EA would have charged A$50 for the content I've already gotten for free since purchasing Sins of a Solar Empire, which cost me A$77 for the collectors edition and postage which would also defy EA's A$90 minimum price tag.

Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher.

No, Stardock started as an OS/2 game publisher in 1993, they didn't touch Windows until 1998. See: http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/article_sdos2.html

No wonder they changed then - that's hardly a great market.

Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher.

No, Stardock started as an OS/2 game publisher in 1993, they didn't touch Windows until 1998. See: http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/article_sdos2.html

Agreed, I've become pretty reliant on ObjectDock, and I'd really hate to see that company get sued into oblivion. Stardock makes a quality product there.

It doesn't seem like Apple and Stardock would be in competition, though, since Stardock is clearly aimed for the Windows market (and Apple already has the Mac tied up with the dock built in), and Apple has not released a dock for Windows (and I somehow doubt they will).

I wish they'd make an RPG. I've been hearing about Stardock for months and would love to become a customer... but I loathe RTSes.

This sounds somewhat close to what you're asking for (although not exactly)...
http://www.stardock.com/vidplayer/vids/dg.html
http://totalgaming.stardock.com/games/?id=demi

I wish they'd make an RPG. I've been hearing about Stardock for months and would love to become a customer... but I loathe RTSes.

This sounds somewhat close to what you're asking for (although not exactly)...
http://www.stardock.com/vidplayer/vids/dg.html
http://totalgaming.stardock.com/games/?id=demi

Check out StarDock's Gamers' Bill of Rights. http://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1095

Sins of a Solar Empire is an excellent RTS game, with frequent major updates.