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Eh? What CVS were you looking at?

http://lists.transgaming.org/pipermail/winex-cvs-l ogs/

I don't have starcraft, or even warcraft 2 any more (and yes it works fine with windows IPX last I checked, games are the only thing keeping IPX alive in this age) because Total Annihilation is the best. RTS. game. ever. And one of the really beautiful things about it is that it really takes full advantage of the hardware. We used to play with 250 units per player and the game would struggle on a P2-266 (which is what I had) and wouldn't really hit its stride until you got about 400MHz. Today, with multiple-GHz systems, you can play with a thousand units per person (a configurable value in the ini file) and have the game still be smooth at all times.

TotalA is cheap and excellent and it runs flawlessly on modern machines and on Windows XP. Cedega says the compatibility is four out of five stars as well, so it may be accessible to Linux users. It doesn't require any 3D support, so it might even work okay in virtualization if the video speed is good enough...

Yes but cedega costs money doesnt it? Worse than that its a subscription! Windows on the other hand...

Besides wow is generally renowned for its "hackability". Try getting battlefield 2 or another EA game working on it. They dont even work right in windows! Id love to game on linux, but I also like things to just work, most of the time. I know its mean to mock the efforts of people that are at least trying to do something about it, but I kinda want 100% compatability, or at least high 90s.

Because Linux does not run Everquest

and 99% of the other games I like to play on a regular basis.

And the numbers keep adding up

At the very least they could form a partnership with Transgaming or the Crossover Folks where they'll reward them for every customer they provide them. So say Bliz throws $1-3 a mo to Transgaming for each client running cedega and in change Transgaming would provide the official Linux support and maybe pass on the discount to the customer (so if you're running WoW under transgaming you would pay only $2-3 a month vs $5).

I don't see how that could really hurt them, Transgaming gets a secured revenue source and gets to work more closely with Bliz, Blizzard gets to keep a fair number of linux players happy, the players know they're officially supported and don't have to deal with issues like this one where without warning cedega users could not log in after a server side change and was not fixed till almost midnight the next day (quick I know, but a pain nonetheless for the ppl who can only play on the weekends).

With OSS, the bug is usually discovered quite quickly, and the patch is usually not far behind.

You neglect the primary reason for this phenomenon; the Open Source community actually listens to the users when a new version is released.

Cutler Beckett: I'm listening...
[Elizabeth aims a flintlock pistol at Cutler's head and pulls the hammer.]
Cutler Beckett: I'm listening intently.
And now for something completely different.

There are plenty of fun games that are native to the Linux platform[...]

Hours and hours of Armagetron, Nethack, Linux Racer and Abuse, eh? The story goes that Linux will become a gaming platform when the Linux community actually starts paying for the games. Pity that Loki isn't still around; alas, they were before their time. I wonder who takes-up the baton now? Transgaming? Their support is laughable (by comparison) and many simple questions go completely ignored. Unlike Loki, they only support a platform of compatibility, not a movement of straight-porting to Linux-kernel architecture.

Still, plenty have made the jump and are doing best they can with compatibility.

But above all, use what works for you. If you don't like Linux, don't use it.

Well said. So very freedom-of-choice of you. But then...

[...]you'll eventually be forced to use something other than Windows.

Ha ha! Irony!

Many in this community would be quick to point-out that we are a "nation" who believes in the choice of the individual. That is the primary reason any form of Linux is in the home and not locked-away in large, expensive schools and research corporations.

Appreciate the reason that people use Window$; it comes ready-to-go. Despite the fact that it only remains in that state for a few days, the "out of box experience" can not be denied.

Nobody is really forced to use Windows, likewise, nobody will ever be "forced to use something [else]". Our choices are guided by the Market, and the Market favors M$. It's a plain truth in business, but it's also a plain truth that no, one power in the Market can withstand the attention forever. Goliath will fall.

IE7 has already pissed me off to no end. I have customers who benefit from my web design. The measures of "protection" and "security" in IE7 have kept me from presenting updated content, or previewing new drafts, because the page is not "aged enough" or is "untrusted". Why would we want a product that treats the world as suspect but is ready to consider it's "home" domain a trustable resource? Call it what it is! It's a "blacklisting" product, and it doesn't even follow "whitelisting" protocols; for sites that are entered as trustworthy are still denied due to some black-box programming that is "included for our safety." FUD Indeed! Feh!

http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?ga me_id=3618

They have screenshots so it appears to work.

No games? What about the Doom3, Quake 1,2,3 & 4, UT 1,2003,2004, Nexuix, Tremulous, Enemy Territory, Medal of Honour AA, Kingpin, Americas Army... and all the games I can play with Cedega?

Cedega ist available from CVS.

I assume you're talking about this, which hasn't been updated since June, and which barely has any discussion except about internationalization. Or maybe you're talking about ReWind, the BSD-licenced fork of WINE, which is even more lifeless.

Contrast that with WINE, which is actively developed, discussed, and used enough to justify "weekly" news articles.

Cedega ist available from CVS.

I assume you're talking about this, which hasn't been updated since June, and which barely has any discussion except about internationalization. Or maybe you're talking about ReWind, the BSD-licenced fork of WINE, which is even more lifeless.

Contrast that with WINE, which is actively developed, discussed, and used enough to justify "weekly" news articles.

Cedega ist available from CVS.

I assume you're talking about this, which hasn't been updated since June, and which barely has any discussion except about internationalization. Or maybe you're talking about ReWind, the BSD-licenced fork of WINE, which is even more lifeless.

Contrast that with WINE, which is actively developed, discussed, and used enough to justify "weekly" news articles.

Cedega ist available from CVS.

I assume you're talking about this, which hasn't been updated since June, and which barely has any discussion except about internationalization. Or maybe you're talking about ReWind, the BSD-licenced fork of WINE, which is even more lifeless.

Contrast that with WINE, which is actively developed, discussed, and used enough to justify "weekly" news articles.

Battlefield 2 on Cedega

On top of the licensing, they seem to be actively promoting thier junk over native Linux ports.

Why on earth do they have Unreal Tournament 2004 listed on their games database as playable under cedega?

UT2004 has a native port because Epic was good enough to pay to get the port done. This is also the case with several other native linux games.

Transgaming are scum, no doubt.

How about CVS?

Could anyone give me the link to the .torrent of Cedega?

All I can find is this pesky page.

Ignorance is strength
Freedom is slavery
War is peace

Stay ignorant and repeat the lies, or learn and make your own oppinion. Your choice.

Package management and dependencies used to be a problem for me, then I learned of debian, games used to be a problem for me and then I learned of winex(cedega), I had a problem with MS office and then I found crossover, I had a problem with outlook and then I found evolution, I had a problem with single sign on and windows transparency over server message block then I found winbind... There are frustrated users, and then there are self educating *nix users.

In reality, the biggest failing is education, not cross compatible software.

Surely you jest.

Don't even get me started on games...

VMware doesn't support 3D hardware acceleration, what you need is Wine or Cedega, I don't know about the other game, but Civ4 is running perfectly fine on my Linux machine under Cedega, check this guide for details.

Before you try to run a game under Wine or Cedega, I suggest you check their respective databases at appdb.winehq.org and transgaming.org/gamesdb.

Which games are holding you back? A lot of games are either made for Linux or will run with Wine or Cedega. Here's Cedega's game database, you should see if your games are supported.

So with Cedega, for $60 per year, I can use my existing Linux PC which is well decked out with lots of RAM, a fast CPU, and a nice video card. As an added bonus I'm supporting WINE development.

I could convert my box into a dual boot box, but then I'll have to pay for Windows ($268, respent every few years as new Windows releases come out), I have to put up with the nuisance of rebooting, and any services my PC provides are unavailable while in Windows.

I could, as you suggest, purchase a dedicated gaming PC. For something roughly equivalent to my Linux PC, I'd be looking at about $700 (respent every few years either in upgrades or replacements), assuming I'll reused the monitor from my Linux PC. And I'll need to find space for the extra machine.

I could buy an XBox or Playstation (I'd hardly call a piece of commodity electronics an "investment"), but I've been having problems getting World of Warcraft, Civ 4, City of Heroes, and Warcraft III running on either platform.

For some people Cedega is a very reasonable option. Encouraging people to spend money unnecessarily is stupid. Many people can be perfectly happy with Cedega and end up saving money. Personally it isn't for me (I play too many games, so I suffer with the dual boot option), but I'm not sneering at people who make that choice. You're not yanking people back to reality, you're ignoring reality.

So because you gave it one try and couldn't get it to work for whatever reason, that has to mean that everyone else who claims it works fine must be lying? What a ridiculous argument.
Did you read the release notes for your version of Cedega? Did you search through the nearly 2500 posts dedicated to Source games on the Cedega discussion forums? Did you look anywhere else on the web for help?

Or did you just give up and start badmouthing a program because you couldn't get it to do something that many other people can?

FWIW, I played HL2 (and SimCity 4 and GTA3:VC) with few to no problems with Cedega 4.3 . It's not impossible if you're willing to actually configure your installation properly.

Buy a PS3 or a Nerdtendo when it comes out... seriously.

Look at the costs.. You have a 400 dollar initial purchase cost and most games will be designed to work on it for the next 5 years.

You'll have decent graphics (hdtv) on a big monitor and all that hoopla. You have hundreds of titles from PS2 era that are fun and will run on it. You'll have 90% of most popular new titles that will run on it.

Compare that to the PC which will have less games, have more expensive games, and you'll have to spend a extra 200-400 dollars a year upgrading it.

Then you have the extra hassle of having to run Windows and the costs associated with that system.

How much fun is that?

For the odd title out there that is a 'must have' on the PC.. you have a 70% chance that it will run in Linux.

Halflife2.. runs in Linux.
Doom3.. runs in Linux
Counterstrike source.. runs in Linux
World of Warcraft.. runs in Linux
Day of Defeat source.. runs in Linux
Battlefeild 2.. runs in Linux
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.. runs in Linux
Sid Meirs: Pirates! (new one, and old ones).. runs in Linux
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided.. runs in Linux
Guild Wars.. runs in Linux
Command & Conquer: Generals.. runs in Linux.
UT2004... runs in Linux.

now the pain in the rear things for these games is that:
1. you have to be running Nvidia card with Nvidia propriatory drivers to play them
2. you have to subscribe to Cedega Win32/DirectX compatability layer. (except for a couple things like Doom3/Quake4)

It's 5 bucks a month, you install "Point2Play" and use that to manage all the different Cedega versions and install cedega, as well as installing and running windows games.

Here is there gameDB.
http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/

The rating system is:
3 stars -- playable with a few serious not-going-to-stop you bugs. (like you can't watch cutscreens or something)
4 stars -- no major bugs, maybe a few visual blemishes
5 stars -- no bugs, perfect compatability.

Some 3 star games are questionable, but don't bother with 2 star or 1 star games.

Costs $15, but well worth it. Also, there are more native Linux games than you might think. Check out http://www.icculus.org/ , http://www.linuxgames.com/ http://www.happypenguin.org/ , http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/ , http://www.tuxgames.com/ , http://games.linux.sk/ , http://games.linux.sk/ , http://www.linux-games.com/ , http://www.linux-gamers.net/ ... Of course for me gaming is just gravy, Linux is my ideal OS for actually getting work done. But I find that games run much more consistently in Linux than in Windows, which makes my gaming flings that much more enjoyable when I do have time for the occasional LAN.

There are much more games for Windows, so if gaming is your number one reason for owning a PC Linux will probably dissapoint you. If you're like me and gaming is secondary, I think you'll get along just fine. ;-)

-AT

I was thinking about re-subscribing to check it out, then stumbled accross this poll. For some reason, 3/4ths (at this time) of the people responding have negative feelings about the update. That's not a very good sign.

• Renewing Subscription. Minimum subscription of 3 months. $5 US per month. So the lowest-cost one-shot is $15.
• Non-renewing subscription. This is $55 for 13 months (12 months + "1 month free").

However, you definitely want to check out the games database first, because while some games may work flawlessly, others won't work at all. No point in paying $15 to be able to play games you're not interested in playing.

Also, if you want to run productivity applications, check out CodeWeavers' CrossOver Office Professional. It runs MS Office, and also has a browser plugin that adds Windows Media Player and QuickTime support to any browser that supports Netscape plugins (on Linux/x86, e.g. Firefox). CodeWeavers is also fairly FOSS-friendly (much more so than TransGaming, IIRC), and is actively involved in the development of Wine.

• Renewing Subscription. Minimum subscription of 3 months. $5 US per month. So the lowest-cost one-shot is $15.
• Non-renewing subscription. This is $55 for 13 months (12 months + "1 month free").

However, you definitely want to check out the games database first, because while some games may work flawlessly, others won't work at all. No point in paying $15 to be able to play games you're not interested in playing.

Also, if you want to run productivity applications, check out CodeWeavers' CrossOver Office Professional. It runs MS Office, and also has a browser plugin that adds Windows Media Player and QuickTime support to any browser that supports Netscape plugins (on Linux/x86, e.g. Firefox). CodeWeavers is also fairly FOSS-friendly (much more so than TransGaming, IIRC), and is actively involved in the development of Wine.

With the sole exception of Fallout 2

Try the right tool

http://transgaming.org/cvs/

the source doesn't include the stuff that handles support for CD-verification software and other "anti-piracy" shit. it's also crippled in other ways, but the bulk of it is there.

...because I see some captivating similarities in your interests.

I guess great minds think alike...

world of warcraft is about the only reason i keep windows

WoW works good in cedega.

Here is a page with screens: http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?ga me_id=3518

And here is a wiki page talking about known issues etc: http://digital-conquest.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Worl d_of_Warcraft

It is also an officially supported game by cedega so you can expect help and stuff to get it going tip-top.

At which point a copy of World of Warcraft is purchased, along with a copy of Cedega (Formally TransGaming WineX). It is installed for them in the same manner the OS was and life goes on

There's no reason to use windows for games anymore. I have entirely gotten rid of windows partitions as all the games I like to play run perfectly in Cedega.

Running through the game list: Sid Meier's Pirates! - Some minor playability problems, need to tweak some configs to get it right.
World War 2 Online - Someone got a screenshot but doesn't seem to work too well
World of Warcraft - Works perfectly, I play it using Cedega myself
Europe Universalis 2 - Works with _no_ known problems.
Rome: Total War - Doesn't work as of Cedega 4.1
City of Heroes - This game is officially supported by Transgaming
RRT2 - No playability ratings, so I'm not sure if this works or not. There are screenshots of it in play
Hearts of Iron 2 - This has a 4/5 rating, not sure how it performs
Crusader Kings - has a 5/5 playability rating
Disciples 2 - Couldn't find this game on the transgaming list... I've never heard of it (??)
Homeworld 2 - This works, I have it installed and play it occassionally
Halflife 2 - Officially supported by transgaming

(direct link to game listings: http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/

A few of the games you like don't work, but most of them do... so really unless you can't do without those few games, the only thing keeping you off linux is yourself :)

Of course, you still have the absolute right to make that decision. Just letting you know that this option exists if you didn't know about it.

click here to browse the list of their officially supported titles That's just the "a" section.. change the letter at the end of that url to "B" to see the rest.

Try Cedega, I've heard it works fine with that particular game.

No, I'm not being facetious, I know about Cedega but really hadn't really considered it before. A quick browse of their database shows that City of Heros does indeed run on it.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'm going to try it out. Thanks, man, and I'm glad to see that someone modded you up, though I would have gone with Informative... :-)

Well, the current Cedega-version has point&click problems, see: http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3149

About the OpenGL being great: http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3581

I've had better luck and performance without the -opengl-flag and disabling the music (within the game) with Cedega (Debian Sarge, 2.6.11, NVidia driver 76.76 w/ 5600 FX, Window Maker 0.90.0) -- I really do hate to be booting to my w2kpro to get some of these oddities work out! What's the freaking problem with a native port? I am not saying Cedega is totally *hit, but please, NWN has a Linux port and it works great (and on FreeBSD!).

Well, the current Cedega-version has point&click problems, see: http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3149

About the OpenGL being great: http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3581

I've had better luck and performance without the -opengl-flag and disabling the music (within the game) with Cedega (Debian Sarge, 2.6.11, NVidia driver 76.76 w/ 5600 FX, Window Maker 0.90.0) -- I really do hate to be booting to my w2kpro to get some of these oddities work out! What's the freaking problem with a native port? I am not saying Cedega is totally *hit, but please, NWN has a Linux port and it works great (and on FreeBSD!).

At one time, what you say was true. But, with the 1.5.1 patch, several issues appeared ONLY on linux using wine or cedega:

You can't target anything. One of the workarounds for targeting NPCs, PCs, is to hit the 'v' key which will turn on a clickable bar. It is also not possible to loot corpses or treasure chests, unless you do some weird angling with the cancel (some have mentioned it's like there's a huge transparent square across the screen except on the very edge of it, which blocks clicks).

That's the only in-game workarounds I know of (that I've found on the Gentoo forums). There are currently 2 known wine/cedega workarounds, but they don't work for everyone. See: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-246098-postda ys-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html and http://transgaming.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3149& sid=478fe7a988c378ded481441f54c5ce7a for more information.

The truth of the matter is, it's not as easy as you think until you try it yourself (and believe me I've tried, I had it working fine before 1.5.1 patch). If Blizzard were to make a native client -- say, like Epic did with UT2003/2004 (used to play UT2004 on Linux some), Id did Doom 3 -- then these headaches would probably be almost non-existent.

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World of Warcraft is apparently considered extremely playable. Unfortunately as is common with the Transgaming stuff that still means that the installer crashes (but has finished when it does), the graphic glitches in places and performance is lousy in some situations without a special hack. Overall it is a way to get to play games, but it is hardly the most user-friendly solution there is.

World of Warcraft is apparently considered extremely playable. Unfortunately as is common with the Transgaming stuff that still means that the installer crashes (but has finished when it does), the graphic glitches in places and performance is lousy in some situations without a special hack. Overall it is a way to get to play games, but it is hardly the most user-friendly solution there is.

"I could however see sevearl situations where someone would genuinely need Windows for something... like... i dont know, does jedi knight dark forces 2 run under wine?"

Yes.
http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?ga me_id=2367

Cedega/WineX is $15 for the minimal 3 month subscription which would get you all the precompiled binaries. Not too bad.

http://transgaming.org/subscription/subscribe.html

http://www.transgaming.org/ for the Linux geek that still wants to game in a M$ Windows dominated world.

At the other end of the spectrum though, you will have large companies that have a pile of internal applications that run exclusively on Win32, making a move to Linux extremely difficult or largely pointless if they needed to use QEmu/VMWare on every PC just to run their internal applications. This is where Wine really shines, for applications that are needed, but have a low chance of being ported to Linux, and for which no native application exists. In the future they may decide to rewrite the applications to be native to Linux, but the chances of doing that as a part of the initial transion are low, as the time required to develop and test such applications is generally non-trivial.

I think in general, Wine is one of the catalysts for Linux adoption, which, ironically, will at the same time will cause it's own irrelevance at an accelerated rate. Without Wine, Linux adoption would be much slower than it is right now, even if only initially, people like to stick with what they're familiar with. Every person I know who has tried out Linux (including myself), has attempted to run the programs they used to use under Wine. I can also point out that they usually find native applications that replace the functionality of the programs they were running under Wine. I certainly did, and I no longer have a use for Wine, I've been running Linux exclusively for about 2 years now.

The one sticking point for a lot of users is still games however. Few Win32 games will ever be ported to Linux, and finding native games that can act as a replacement can be very difficult except for some of the most popular games, for example, the Civilization series => FreeCiv. Not to say that there aren't any games available for Linux, but if there was no Wine, the list would be significantly shortened, and many of the games that people want to play have no equivalant.

I don't think Wine will ever be completely irrelevant, but as it gets better, it will drive itself that way.

Most linux users don't have a problem running Photoshop... Or most games ( http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/ )... Not that there is a 64bit windows version of PS, or (m)any 64bit windows games.

BBH

Why not look for yourself.

The fact is that different distributions can make this emulation process smoother & faster, which in turn make the gaming better. I run CS (1.6) through Point2Play (Cedega frontend) on Ubuntu, works flawlessly, I run nVidia drivers which are pretty damn good, though my FPS is down about 30% from 100 on Windows, it isn't noticeable (in a game like CS 1.6, anyway).

Some people experience better FPS through Linux/Cedega than they do on Windows XP. I'm not sure why, to be honest, but it can happen.

You can certainly have better gaming distros, ones with good pthreads configuration, for example. Also, the kernel you choose will be very important for obvious reasons, as well as Xorg.

Personally, I would strongly suggest Mandrake because it's defaults are very nicely set up for gaming, it should be the simplest and easiest to get everything set up, with lots of support (you'll find a lot of Mandrake users running games through Cedega) from the regular Mandrake channels and ofcourse on the Transgaming website itself.

Also, This thread entitled "Which distro is simplest for Cedega and P2P" sounds like a needed read for the submitter.