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Netscape Communicator 4.72 Released
Quite a number of people have ants in their pants over the latest release of Netscape Communicator. This latest release, 4.72 to be exact, can also be grabbed through their Web site. Here's to hoping it's more stable than my current release. 'Course, Mozilla's getting really really close now...
Haven't the last few releases of Communicator been just throwing more crap into the package? Little has been done since Navigator 4.08 has been released...
I was going to post a more insiteful comment, but then Netscape crashed.
What I want to know is, when will the netscape-common & netscape-communicator RPMs for Red Hat be out? Why do they always lag behind the "official" releases, anyway?
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Mozilla might be getting close for some people, not for me.
It still has a long way to go. Netscape will crash about once an hour for me when I am doing heavy web browsing.
My longest Mozilla uptime is 5 minutes. No joke. Slashdot is the only site I can use with it. www.deja.com main page crashes it right away.
I'm sorry, but Mozilla isn't useable for me. I remember the early Netscape betas years ago and they wer not this unstable.
And yes I submit bug reports.
I wish all the mozilla developers good luck, but its a long road ahead to the point where Netscape is replaced.
I really hope that this works as well as other releases. I have seen less and less of Netscape lately but this could be something of a turning point.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
preliminary testing on linux 2.3.45 seems pretty stable (standalone version). so far i can't really see any differences, other than the fact that it isn't crashing and freezing my X server.
darren
(darren)
Yes - I've already downloaded and installed 4.72. Why? Because I'm fed up with having the 4.71 browser flake out every day or so with another error. So far, so good - nothing has died yet :-)
I've been tracking the Mozilla Seamonkey Milestones since M11, and it seems to be stabilizing up nicely but I'm stuck with using it for browsing behind the firewall at work because we use a SOCKS proxy to the outside world. Alas, as far as I can see this is not supported in Mozilla yet. Anyone have any clues on this one - what is needed to persuade Seamonkey to use the SOCKS proxy? Or does some SOCKS expert wish to sign up for this post on the Mozilla team? It was empty last time I looked.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
P.S. If I see any posts with the title 'Shoes?' following this one ... :-)
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Does anyone know how to disable that annoying SmartDownload thing that forces me to look at ads while I download files?
This is perhaps the most annoying feature of the previous version.
-ShelbyCobra
Living life in the right side of the s-plane
But will it show gifs properly, this is the question. /. looks particularly stoopid with all these little black blobs all over it. Or am I the only one who had trouble with 4.7 on NT?
The conclusion of your syllogism, I said lightly, is fallacious, being based on licensed premises
... at least for me. I'm running Netscape 4.7 (browser only, Communicator is huge and pointless, other tools do a better job) and its not crashed on me in months. I have had to disable Java though. Not that thats particulalry upsetting for me...
Bottom line: Browser only without Java is pretty stable.
We all know that Netscape for Linux is buggy and crash prone. Has anyone found out which (if any) of the linux versions is the most stable?
The "supported" linux20_glibc2?
The "unsupported" linux20_libc5 or linux22?
Is the unsupported freeBSD version any better than Linux versions?
I need as much stability as I can get. Turning off Javascript helps, but it really isn't a very good solution.
Quick summary:
Keep Netscape/Unix From Crashing Like the Overextended Hack Job Piece Of Crap Code It Is - HOWTO
1) Your distro manufacturer may have packaged netscape incorrectly. See their site for details or upgrades.
2) Turn off Cascading Style Sheets (Style Sheets) support in your preferences. It generally doesn't work well at all and really isn't all that necessary. And IME it makes NS crash. A lot.
3) Turn off Java. Turn off Java. Turn off Java.
4) Turn off Javascript if you don't use somewhat sophisticated sites.
5) Don't invoke mystery components like Messenger and Composer and all that crap unless you actually need to use them. They tend to suck a bit.
6) Feed it lots and lots and lots of disk/memory cache, or none at all.
7) Upgrade. 4.7x is much nicer than previous 4.x releases on all platforms, IME.
-------------------------
This is just my experience. With these changes, NS tends to stay up for a few days for me, as opposed to an hour or less previously.
Take this at well less than face value.
-troll taker
I agree whole-heartedly that IE5 is in every aspect superior to Netscape Communicator. I just don't like IE5 putting its fingers in places it shouldn't be.. like on my server!!! In terms of a latest and greatest web integration tool, IE5 beats Netscape. I use Netscape only for the fact that I install a browser, and I get a browser. Not a "whole new computing experience".
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
I haven't used netscape much lately, whats the status on Java in this new version? straight by plugin, or still including their own version?
user_pref("browser.chrome.disableMyShopping", true);
I saw the release this morning earlier and I checked ye olde' changelog. Still there's no real fix for the uncountable java problems that I have with Netscape under Linux. In fact, this morning I just went and grabbed the latest Milestone of Mozilla. It's usable, but still buggy. (For instance, the area around this reply textbox is totally black). I'd just as soon contend with this since Netscape just hasn't really fixed the bugs it needs to IMHO.
If you're wondering which java problem I'm referring to, some of the banners on Freshmeat will crash Netscape. Most evil!
-What have you contributed lately?
I've been royally pissed at Netscape ever since they added the stupid "Shop" button in 4.6. "Shop" differs from "Stop" by one letter - and they put it right next to the "Stop" button. At 1600x1200 with text-only toolbars, I can never tell the difference between the two.
Every time I try to kill a loading page, I find myself whisked away to some "Netscape Store". Sheesh.
43rd Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr
This brings back fond memories I have of finally purging IE3 from the C drive and suddently getting "access denied" messages from the Temporary Internet Files folder...at least Netscape keeps itself to itself in one tidy folder and doesn't sprawl all over your stuff like the house-guest from Hell...
The conclusion of your syllogism, I said lightly, is fallacious, being based on licensed premises
Looks to me like Navigator (The only useful part of Communicator IMO) is still 4.08... which has been out for months... Unless they actually modified it and didn't change the version number.
Well, besides this:
As of Netscape Communicator 4.72, Enterprise Calendar is no longer included with your download.
I don't see any What's New section. It's amazing how hard it is to find any information about Navigator on Netscape's home page.
The quality of Navigator/Communicator seemed to be going downhill long before AOL took over Netscape; the fact that 95%+ of the original Netscape programming staff left after the takeover isn't going to help any. Given the quality (or lack thereof) of AOL's software, I shudder to think about the future of Navigator. I really don't want to have to switch to M$ Internet Exploiter, nor would I want to see a Navigator dumbed down to the level of the AOL client.
Communicator 4.7 is pretty stable for me under NT, but I have pretty robust hardware (Athalon 550/128MB); it seems much less stable under Red Hat on my K6-II/400. My main gripe is it's speed; it seems to take forever to render a page, even on my Athalon. My other major gripe is that the email and news facilities are annoyingly primitive for such an otherwise mature program. (Plus, PGPFreeware dosn't have a Netscape plugin)
I havn't had a chance to play with Mozilla yet; but I'm looking forward to seeing the final release. Hopefully Mozilla will fix a lot of the annoyances of 4.x
"The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Howto: What on earth are you talking about? "Turn off javascript" "Turn off java" "Turn off CSS" etc. Man, why don't you just go download an old version of Masaic 1.0 and cruise around for a little while... real cool huh? The web is a visual and stylistic medium for better or for worse. The days of the traditionalist "text based" web are dead, get used to it. If, as you suggest someone performed these actions they would not be able to: - use 50% of the navigation out there - purchase goods at 90% of the sites out there And all around would have a fairly miserable experience. Thr problem isn't the technology or the conventions, they don't make the browsers unstable. What makes the browsers unstable is that fact that they (ms and nn) haven't rebuilt their basic engines in YEARS. Hell, mozilla hasn't rewritten the kernel EVER (waiting for m14) Additionally, what we REALLY need is a frigging death squad to back up the w3 and send the fear of god into nn and ms. If those companies didn't branch off in the 4 level browsers with their "proprietary spec versions" we couldn't be facing the incompatability and instability issues we have today. *grumbles* But then again, I'm just an:
It's there. It's not hard to find either. There are like 3 versions of it available too.
g z g z . tar.gz
The filenames:
navigator-v472-export.x86-unknown-linux2.0.tar.
navigator-v472-export.x86-unknown-linux2.2.tar.
navigator-v472-export.x86-unknown-linuxglibc2.0
The Linux NS is much more stable than the FreeBSD NS (scary, eh?). I'm posting this from Linux NS running on FreeBSD 3.4, a common enough option that there's actually a port for linux netscape in the freebsd ports collection.
----------------------------
Slightly offtopic...
:)"
...Student, Artist, Techie - Geek *
On the FIX BBS I recently posted this:
"The problem has oocured in versions 4.6 and 4.7 on Win95, Win98 and NT.
Sometimes, Netscape doesn't allow you to follow links. Like, the pointer will change to the "hand" when you move over the link, but a click doesn't do anything.
The only way to solve the problem is to reboot windows. It's very strange. It's happened to me regularly for about 6 months, I can't be the only one?
I'm considering reporting it to Netscape.
Mo."
I got the following within a few minutes. Come on NS! I'm using IE5 now - it's better, a lot better!
"No, I experience the same thing. Except that sometimes, a click *does* do anything, even when the mouse pointer isn't in hand shape."
"I've experienced this with Netscape for Linux. It only happens when I have two or more windows open at the same time, and another one (than the one I'm clicking in) is trying to load something. If I cancel that load by hitting ESC,things usually "pop" back into working order. Usually, I say, but it's only happened to me two or three times."
"Have the same problem (Netscape 4.6 on Linux and also on Digital UNIX 4.0D), but: It even happens, when there's only one window. And it doesn't change back, only restarting of Netscape is a cure.
Seems to be a coded feature.
Really NS - Can we have our favourite browser working properly in it's next release? You know? Links, that can be followed?
Mong.
* Paul Madley
*...Slacker, Artist, Techie - Geek *
Remember: Nothing is Cool.
I headed over to Google and searched for "Netscape Navigator 4.72"... Check out who comes up 1st (and 2nd, and 3rd, and 6th) with Netscape.com nowhere to be seen.
Have they finally fixed the bug where turning off JS disabled CSS even if you have CSS enabled?
Actually the disappearing story didn't become a regular feature until money started heading Slashdot's way, around the time of the Red Hat IPO.
Anybody besides me feel like there's a considerable difference between pulling a story and explaining why and just "disappearing" it?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Hope this is the return of the one, true, original MEEPT!!!!!
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Anyone else having problems downloading the strong encryption version? Seems like they're not only have problems with the stability of the browser, but with basic server adminstration. The redirect script that figures out where you're coming from... isn't there. Fun.
Well, at least MEEPT!!!!! is back. I can rest easy. But, seriously, someone needs to compete in the browser market.. IE is becoming a much better product. What other browsers are there? The only one I can thing of is Opera, but it's lacking in too much functionality. I haven't played around with Mozilla yet.
What about MEEPT?!?!
As if that weren't sufficiently annoying, there's not been a Linux/SPARC version since 4.51, but there are five Solaris versions. Of course, none of those are for current versions of Solaris either. All this, of course, would be excusable if they didn't have any systems to build on or they weren't going to support oddball platforms (I will admit that Linux/SPARC is marginal, though it has multiple supported distributions and a growing user base), but then why oh why are there two SINIX builds??? Most people don't even know WTF SINIX _is_, much less have it.
The point? It doesn't seem like Netscape understands what people are actually using today. If the objective is to be compatible with as much as possible, then not having up-to-date Linux builds for at least Intel, SPARC, and Alpha makes no sense. For that matter, they don't even claim to support Solaris 7 or 8. 2.5.1 is itself archaic. If the objective is instead to support only the most popular platforms, then I certainly don't see the need for five Solaris builds, two AIX builds, anything related to SINIX, or a Linux 2.0/libc5 build. The obvious platforms to support would be Solaris 7, Linux 2.2-intel/glibc, the latest AIX, the latest Digital Unix, and IRIX 6.5.
So what can we do to increase their awareness of this problem? Numerous polite letters have garnered either no response or a polite "get lost" form letter. Ideas?
Alternate paranoid theory: AOL wants all the Unix builds to be against old systems so that people will switch to windoze and buy more aol service. Pretty paranoid, but aol is pure evil after all.
PS: Kudos to the mozilla team for recognizing the value of compatibility and multi-platform support. The Linux/SPARC build works as well as any other.
--TM, still using 4.51 on Ultralinux, the preferred platform of all major deities
RPMs of Netscape built with GCC-2.95 with i686 optimizations available at
http://members.wri.com/johnnyb/netscape/
Engineering and the Ultimate
Well I think Netscape's great- twice the performance and a lot more stable than anything else made by other people who haven't paid me as much cash to say that.
Barry Fishcake
Senior VP, Mindcraft
I've been using M13 as my ONLY browser (at work) for two weeks. I use it pretty heavily, and I go to Deja approx once per day.
I have not had one single crash of the browser. (I have had mail crash on me).
I was anxiously waiting for M14 to clean up some interface/formatting/speed problems, but apparently they aren't going to do one(?)
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
if you have no other reason to use IE other than Microsoft hatred that's fine. But if you want to see what Mozilla will hopefully eventually being like, just download IE and see for yourself.
The Java plugin has been available for a little while. However, many websites still use the <applet> tag instead of the
<EMBED
type=application/x-java-applet;version=1.1
java_docbase=file:///none
width=123 height=123
code=whatever.class>
Use Javascript to probe for the plugin, if it exists then print the embed tag, otherwise print the applet tag.
You can get the plugin here or off of http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/mirrors.html
1.3L, 3 moving parts, 280 HP, no Turbos, wanna Race? RotaryNe
After installing it I launched it... comes up much faster than 4.7 (on NT). Certainly faster than Mozilla or IE. Also, for those that haven't tried... copy your Netscape plugins directory contents into the Mozilla plugins directory. Quicktime works pretty well (it skips a little but wasn't that noticable on the X-Men preview). Flash is... "not entirely stable" (to steal from C3PO). Works on some sites and doesn't work on others (shockwave.com of all things)
I agree. Things started going down hill when they started getting money. The most noticable was when Andover bought them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put down Andover, but that's when things started to go down hill...
Yes, there is a big difference between the "disappearing" stories and explaining why it was pulled IMO.
*fondles wget* i've been doing the same for around a year :-) wget owns.
I'm fed up with Netscape. The damn thing takes forever to open and it takes an eternity to open a new page. Oh and if you actually want to have more than 2-3 windows open at once, better make your prayers cause Netscape won't like it and will go down.
:)
That's why I switched. I was tired of waiting and I just wanted access to some content and get to it fast.
Microsoft wasn't an option so I tried Opera which I must say just fills up my internet browsing needs. Of course, it doesn't have those stupid little utilities that makes IE and Netscape really heavy but who cares when all you want is to view some content.
By the way, I'm not trying to promote Opera and I don't have any financial gain with this. I'm just speaking from the heart
*******************************
This is where I should write something
intelligent or funny but since I'm
rm -rf /path/to/previous/version/of/netscape
tar -zxvf new_version_of_netscape.tar.gz
cd new_version_of_netscape
./nsinstall
hit enter a few times
and you are done.
too hard for you?
for reasons why the rpms aren't out. read the other replies to your comment.
The basic sleazeware produced in a drunken fury by a bunch of UCBerkeley grad students was still the core of BIND. --PV
How about HTML support? Did it make it into 4.72?
For example, in Composer 4.71 (glibc 2.1.2, Linux 2.2.12), I highlight text and click on the link button to change text to a URL link . I insert the URL into the link dialog and hit either 'Apply' or 'Finished' and the entire application crashes.
--
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
I just tried to download the 128 bit version from within Netscape, and every time I get a Not Found page when it tries to redirect to the download page. IE forwarded through perfectly tho :) Weirdness...
Yes, many of the above points are true. If I even attempt to start JAVA, communicator crashes. JS is okay, and the Style Sheets suck. I have this problem with netscape sucking up between 64-96 MB of physcial memory after extended surfing and making my PII run like a 486 with a hardware conflict. Does anyone have any experience making netscape behave like this? I have Communicator 4.71 on RH6.1 kernel 2.2.13 (patched for JFS).
Also, I found the best way not mentioned to fix the button toolbar. Go to View, and Deselect Navigation toolbar. You can use alt-arrow to go forward and backwards, ESCAPE stops loading and alt-r reloads. Gives me more desktop and less suck from Net$crape.
Tell me all about it.. I kept holding on, hoping netscape would get better, in complete denial that IE was a better browser (Under the Win9x Platform)..
Guess what? I use IE on my work machine runing 98 now and love it. Netscape is complete garbage.. More built in advertising, less stability, more HTML 4.0 incompatibilities -- It's a bit better under *nix, but not by much. I even hex edited my win9x copy so it wouldn't give netscape/aol/time warner/emi/world domition corp a page view every time I tried to check my godamn mail
Mozilla? Yah... It's real good at segfaulting, but not much else.. And development is SLOOOWWWW! M12 only took what, a year? And still isn't stable? jesshh..
I'm finished ranting.. I'm going to try my best to friggin uninstall AOL Instant messenger.. HA!
"..Just because you put a flag on the moon doesn't make it yours, it just puts a hole in the moon..."
If you want to see what's changed, check out the Release Notes! Looks like a lot of changes, few fixes.
æeee!
How about giving me a browser that just does browsing? I know it's a novel concept, but why should my WEB BROWSER do Usenet and email? That's why I have slrn and mutt... I know, I know: "use lynx". But the formatting and graphics are tough to do in a tty...
The Daily Build
If each of us had paid $25 for it, I think there would be a better product.
Alternatively, what can one expect for free?
Find a browser and BUY it, or contribute code if you are able. Anything else is pathetic.
Most people don't even know WTF SINIX _is_, much less have it.
Ok, I admit I have never heard of SINIX..
cpeterso
You can download Navigator standalone 4.72 for *nix here. I don't think there's a Windows Navigator 4.72 though, that's probably still at 4.08. Oh well.
IMHO without Netscape to compete with IE would have started out and stayed a huge joke. By the way, I do use IE5 at work (stuck on an NT box) so I'm not completely against it, but the moment Mozilla stabilizes and is considered not alpha, not beta, but production I will be forever and irrevocably getting rid of all Microsoft software on my home machine.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
It's one out of ten events in that thingy in the Old Retired Minicomputer Oo-Lympics.
Ya'know? the DEC-Athalon? ;-)
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
I'm certain that there are valid uses for javascript out there. So far, though, the only uses I have seen are
a) popu-up advertising
b) taking control of the display away from the user in general
c) creating links where a real link would have done at least as well
d) forcing of automatic forwarding to an advertising site
e) a single case where it was used to enable nested choices--choose the textbook then the chapter.
Only e) even vaguely benefits the user, and this is arguable. a-d all either affirmatively harm the user, or are crummy programming.
If your page requires javascript to function, unless you're doing something rather exotic with user data, it's almost certainly wrong. More than that, I'll go to one of your competitors--I used to use foxnews, but they're not enough better than CNN to put up with this.
hawk
Whenever a Mozilla story is on Slashdot, people are always yelling, "why don't they have everyone working on Mozilla?", and now you're asking, "why doesn't 4.72 have big changes?" C'mon people, it's one or the other, make up your mind. Personally I think they're doing it the right way.
Oh, no ! Now you have started a new form of Trolls: "Pour Hot Ants down your pants !!!!".
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Since the release of M13, I have been using Mozilla as my only browser on Win98 at home. It has not crashed on me once yet...really.
Religion is the opium of the people. Evolution is the opium of scientists.
At least this is how I got mine for my SuSE 6.2 system.. Get a hold of a RH GPL CD. The Navigator and netscape-common files are there along with the communicator files. I am running Nav 4.61 NO COMMUNICATOR this way. Anybody want to moderate this up as "usefull"? Greg
-- 100% MS-Free as of 4-4-1999, 11:47:38 PST. "The lapdance is always better when the stripper is cryin'" Free Kevin,
How about giving me a browser that just does browsing? I know it's a novel concept, but why should my WEB BROWSER do Usenet and email? That's why I have slrn and mutt... I know, I know: "use lynx". But the formatting and graphics are tough to do in a tty...
Someone should write a patch for lynx to use the ascii graphics library - aalib to render web graphics as ascii text. Anyone who's missed this gem should check out ttyQuake. :-) Or maybe not ...!
Cheers
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
I bet they don't even use monkeys or chimps or anything "snazzy" or "cool".... Shipping lots of simians from some sort of rainforest would probably cost a lot, as would the cost of living for them.... i bet they just have cats and/or dogs tapping at the keys here...
Where are some of you people getting your ideas about Netscape and Mozilla? I have been using Mozilla M13 since it came out with full-circle software and it doesn't last longer than 5 minutes NO MATTER WHAT. I know that this is the Windows version, but what's the difference? I've been filing bug reports until my arms fingers fall off, but it seriously sucks. It may be alpha quality, but it sucks horribly compared to other alpha quality software. And Java doesn't work in Mozilla without major fucking around with files normal users would never touch. Now, Netscape is a hell of a lot more stable. Usually what brings down Netscape is it's helper apps and plugins. But, it does just crash on me out the clear blue most of the time. Oh well. Mozilla still have a LONG way to go to replace Netscape.
And on a side note, for people who don't like SmartDownload (like me) go to http://www.gozilla.com . This is a seperate downloader that kicks ass. You can even download files for Unix with a dozen a.b.c.d.e.f.t.tar or whatever and it keeps the name intact, unlike Netscape. And it resumes downloads even if your turn your computer off and continue downloading a week later. It rocks, try it out.
Quit Navigator and launch the Task Manager. You will see that there is still a "Netscape" task running. Don't ask me why. Kill it and relaunch Navigator.
Voila.
Now if I could just figure out why Netscape 4.7 regularly goes psycho and loads carp from the cache that isn't even related to the page I asked it to load... the only solution I've found to that is to reboot. I'm beginning to think 4.7 is less stable than 4.5 was.
I can see the fnords!
Its 192000 and I feel fine.
Hasn't crashed for a couple of hours. 4.71 and earlier used to "bus error" frequently when closing windows. Or, it could be that Xfree 3.9.18 fixed some stuff. Oh well, it's good, it's free, enjoy!
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
How is including news & email readers with Navigator any different than including Internet Explorer with Windows?
"Prejudice is wrong; you should hate everyone the same."
Try your local community college - they likely have classes on the Internet that will help you out a lot.
I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
I just checked CNN's front page with M13: No problem.
BTW *pointed look at Foogle*, no one is saying you are lying or stupid if Mozilla doesn't work for you. They are just saying "It works for me, so there is no fundamental reason it couldn't be MADE TO work for you." That is, since it works for (at least) one person, the bug must be in some other area.
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Check out this link. Lots of interesting tidbits & tips. It doesn't cover some of the newer options (like disabling the shopping button), but covers a few other interesting things.
http://www.inmind.com/p eople/phrank/commonly/userprefs.html
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Watch out for BeOS! It's a user's worst nightmare! They even expect you to unzip your own packages when you install them!
--
Not that I'm a big fan of Google (I think it's wayyyyyyy over-rated), but it's smarter than you're giving it credit for.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Actually, in Internet 101 they taught me to try something out myself before I suggest it to someone else.
Like this.
I just upgraded to 4.7 YESTERDAY$#%@%%
For all those who criticized 4.71. That the is broken. Seriously broken. It was on their sites for a few days and a lot of people fell in this trap (me one). Unfortunately information didn't reach many. I managed to hold it for a week and have a few hundred students to fell the "beauty and the beast". The result was linux boxes crashing every hour, mail broken, news in Hell.
:( ). 4.7 glibc2 didn't go. It wrongly called NIS+ data. We turned to libc5 one and almost everything worked. Except Java. Due to the huge delays in the upgrade we sticked to it.
We had to turn back fast. But at the same time we managed to seriously upgrade the system. 4.61 worked no more (and we were holding the upgrade due to this...
Sincerly, my experience with Netscape has been, for the last year, desilusion after desilusion. Their closed source, their huge delays, their lack of intermediate patches, their lack of support for most of the new standards, has turned its use into a growing Hell. What mostly admires me is that, among all this, they started to add more and more "features", scrapping stable old code and creating more problems. If anyone has traced it on Linux he can understand what I mean. I have been doing this and I'm admired that calls, that worked well in RedHat, Slackware and Mandrake, now are changed and Netscape horribly crashes in these places. They don't follow the libraries and sometimes mix them with beta and alpha versions from rawhide libs (some of which don't manage ever to reach RedHat dists). Use code that everyone has dropped long ago. And the most worrysome is that their support and documentation from miserable has been turning to none.
Hope that Mozilla comes soon. I have tested it and liked a lot. Really I don't want to go back to MazDie only because I want to roam the net...
After about an hour of heavy surfing, Netscape 4.7 likes to suddenly request more memory than I actually have (64MB Phys, 64 MB Swap)... the system slows to a crawl, virtual memory thrashes, can't even type or move the mouse. Eventually, (I assume after all memory is used), the Linux VM subsystem kills it.
I once managed to get to another VT while this was happening, and I couldn't log in due to lack of memory. Finally I got "VM: killing process netscape"... at least the Linux kernel is smart enough to do this. I can't imagine what NT does.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
I the past, I've run an E-zine for about a year. I was the editor and did all the html.
Anyway, the main complaint people was giving me was that the whole thing was loading way to slowly. I didn't know exactly how to fix this, as the thing had only ONE picture: the logo.
Anyway, I used Javascript to "compress" the html, and it worked like a charm. For example, someone sent me a raw text (ie, no formatting, just plain ASCII) file, and after having applied all the (non-trivial - lots' o' tables and the kind) formatting, the file was a bit *smaller* than the original ASCII text file...
What I did was to simply make javascript functions for things I did alot. For example, instead of writing all the html for required for a newsitem for each and every news item on the page, I had Javascript function that took as its arguments the name of the news item, the date of it, it's actual text and who contributed it.
Doing this actually makes the raw html much, much, much easier to read.
I got ONE complaint from a person who couldn't view the thing. I told him to turn on Javascript, and then it worked perfectly. After adding a "you need Javascript" note to the page, that would appear if someone had turned it off, I didn't get any complaints at all about either the use of javascript or slow loadtimes.
I wonder why no one has made a Javascript decompression script, and then you could actually compress all you pages (and have them decompressed when the user gets them), without the user ever seeing it, and you could do this with access to nothing but the raw html. This would of course require a fast Javascript implementation by the browser to make it feasible to write a decompressor in Javascript and have it run fast enough to actually give a benefit.
Bjarke Roune
Actually NS5 will never see the light of day.
So there will be no actual NS5 release? Do you have any links to more information?
thanks!
cpeterso
I second that, god, i would pay good cash for a stand alone browser, that looks good (not you opera), and is faster than greased lightening, or some similar fast thingee and is cross platform, and did i mention that it is JUST a web browser?
ALSO, it has to have a REAL preferences menu, where you can disable ANY HTML type, (blink comes to mind), and ANY feature in the browser, and can be completly controled from the keyboard if need be.
Is that too much to ask for?
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
My experience:
- Netscape crashes. I restart Netscape. All's well except I have to find my place and/or retype any lost email. 1/10 this results in a BSOD, and hence a reboot.
- IE4 crashes. More often than Netscape. About twice a day, in fact, it gives me a message that seems to be related to the pwl files, but isn't. It takes down Explorer with it, no wait, it is explorer. 1/10 this results in a reboot.
- IE5 crashes. About once a week. 10 times out of 10 this results in a reboot. So about the same amount of lost data as the previous two.
TANSTAFWB (there ain't no such thing as a free web broser), I suppose.
My Reasons for saying that were:
- Internet explorer generally is a more stable, reliable browser that has better support for things like java and css.
- Netscape for linux is a pice of shit.
- Microsoft in its current state will never release a browser for linux... It would take a split to get anything out of them for linux.
- I happen to prefer linux for most other stuff, but it would be nice to have a little more competition in the way of end-user software.
I dont have anything against Microsoft the company. I would like to see them support *nix because for general applications (not operating system) you get a well rounded, feature packed, user friendly program that wouldn't hurt linux one bit.The split wasn't a wish of hatred, it was a wish for an event that might yeild a desirable result, without getting into the deep politics and bussiness aspects of why it is good/bad overall.
Sorry I steped on your anonymous toes.
----------------------------------------------
I don't really mind double posts on
Okay.. so now I'm a troll? This has little or nothing to do witht he original thread but that does not make it any less worthy of comment. Read and ye shall see...
Am I a troll for using the term "Microshit"?
If so, then be advised that it is an expression of personal opinion. I have little to no esteem for any Microsoft products after DOS 6.22.
Am I a troll for pointing out that the most likely reason MS' site comes up on a Navigator search is that they loaded their page(s) with misleading keywords?
Maybe I'm a troll for commenting on Microsoft's demeanor in practices. This is not allegation, no matter what anyone says. You can see what they do to push their products. Granted it *may* not be the end-of-all-things scenario that some paint, but the fact remains they *DO* do some unscrupulous things.
Or maybe I'm just a troll because that particular moderator is defensive of Microsoft. If this is the case, then you might try a bit of objectivity when moderating others' opinions. Tossing my post down a notch out of spite is not exactly cool.
If none of these are correct, then please post why, I am genuinely curious. And don't post AC, I'll simply ignore it. An AC post could be just about anyone couldn't it?
Didn't see in the Changelog that they had
repaired the problem of crashing with a "bus error" on password dialogs -- usually the 3rd or
4th time I hit a password dialog. This has been
every 4.xx version I've used on every system I've
used.
This has nothing to do with Linux or it's quality. Linux by no means has a monopoly on assholes for users - you'll find them where-ever you go. If that is a determining factor in what OS you choose, then you will _never_ be happy. Ignore the kids and smart-assed remarks and use Linux because _you_ like Linux, not because we're a bunch of nice guys...
"Using the Insert Link command (or the Link button) in Composer or when composing HTML messages may cause Communicator to crash." This is a brand-spanking new bug in Netscape 4.72 Why don't they fix this stuff before they release it? Or, barring that, at least take out the feature so people don't crash Netscape by using it.
"If you attempt to use Messenger the very first time you run Communicator, it may quit with an "Illegal instruction" message."
"If you delete your only IMAP server and then add a POP server, Communicator may quit."
"A previous workaround for Unix systems, to avoid the freezing on startup of the edit or compose window, has been changed." Is it just me, or does this just sound silly? Changing workarounds, why don't they just fix it!?
I wouldn't mind this so much, except they're introducing new features, mostly useless features, before they even bother to fix these bugs.
Chris Hagar
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
Ya but unless you got win2K for free or something who would pay for it? I could see may be on a real bad day paing $89. But the $200+?!? Hell no. Betweem the evilness and shit software they put out I dont want to give them one more red cent. And for those of you who say win2k is the best thing since toast...well they said that about Win95, had all the same hype around it. Only time will tell.
I have to return some videotapes...
Anyone else having problems downloading the strong encryption version?
Go to http://www.netscape.com/download/ unsupported.html, and pick the Linux 2.2 / 128-bit Communicator 4.72 link. It works.
Rick Moenrick@linuxmafia.com
Might want to intall crap you dont know if you will keep in /tmp. If you forget about it most systems will delete what ever is in there anyways.
I have to return some videotapes...
OK this is slightly offtopic, but I wondered how many Japanese users there were here.
Have you noticed on English Windows that all MS programs stuff up JIS/EUC encodings when you try to copy them to the clipboard? You end up with ?????????? when you do a paste.
NS was the only program you could read Japanese on AND copy text off. I wondered if anybody knew a fix for the IE bugs, since I have to use outlook express to collect my mail from many pop accounts. (which NS doesn't seem to want to implement)
PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT LIB %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND
731 cralt 2 0 17176 16M 8140 S 0 1.5 36.6 0:33 netscape
126 root 16 0 17324 13M 4068 R 0 27.8 28.8 7:17 X
732 cralt 0 0 3716 3716 3148 S 0 0.0 7.9 0:00 netscape
I have to return some videotapes...
"NS5" Is on www.mozilla.org. Its the real early milestones. Pre M9 I think.
I have to return some videotapes...
I haven't downloaded 4.72 yet, and I'm not sure I want to.
I've noticed, just in the past month, that I can no longer access any pages on either Infoworld or Computerworld, or, seemingly, any page that includes XML in the URL, using Netscape 4.7. Am I missing something here? Is there a plugin I need to retrieve?
I also find it interesting that Netscape is the ONLY browser so affected. Mozilla, StarOffice, lynx and (shudder, I tried it once just to check) IE all load the pages with no problem. And what really puzzles me is that when I view the page source, the content is all there. Have I missed something obvious in the Netscape setup?
- don't even try to use Java unless you're sure it's quite small. (I seem to be OK with small applets)
- Exit and restart every couple of hours. Check for leftover processes and kill them to get the memory back.
I'm an intensive user (web developer) so YMMV on the time needed between restarts.
No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up.
Are you suggesting that there is no difference?
Are you saying that netscape doesn't realize that people are not using redhat 4.2?
Please, there are many issues going into a moving a platform of a huge app, then just recompile.
Forget all that, let's put it like this: would you rather them fix 4.x or fix mozilla?
go to fortify to secure your browser, and for a kick, plug into: tool!
Tweaked my .Xdefaults; relaunched Netscape:OK, but prefs have no effect. Launch new browser window: I get a little popup window titled "Netscape: subprocess diagnostics (stdout/stderr)" with the message in the subject.
:-(
Poot
Does anyone have a URL with references to what I can set & how?
No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up.
Here's another...suck my cock
just wanted to see it work right oh well some more: I would fuck her
But isn't the purpose of the Doomsday machine lost if you keep it a secret!
No, we just don't have any alternatives to a good browser.
The problem w/using prefs.js (preferences.js) is that it seems to lose some changes you manually add in there. Using .Xdefaults (or binary editing) ensures that the changes will not go away.
I can never get the navigation bar to stay where I want it (the bottom most of the three).
You can get it her e
:). All new games support Windows 2000 properly (at least all the ones I've tried. Most old games don't work cause they try to detect the OS and say NONONO if you are running NT. You can use appcompat.exe on the windows 2000 support CD to trick the apps tho :).
Ofcourse most of the games on that list are quite old
Microsoft use one of those windows->unix porting tools to get IE working on Solaris.
I'm 50% sure that once the kit is ported to support Linux Microsoft will release IE for linux.
Ofcourse everyone here would take the oppotunity to run around saying NT sucks, not even microsoft is sure of NT. Microsoft will release MS Linux!!! and other crap.
O, the irony...
But try "Netscape Navigator newest" and all is right with the world.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Like this
not this
google directs searches for both Netscape 4.72 and for MS-IE to their opponents. Try a google search for:microsoft internet explorer
Javascript is useful for lots of stuff. Like check out the link in the middle of this page. You don't even have to click through, yet it will take you to the next page. Think of the ramifications for ad forwarding. Oh wait, that was (d). You're right; javascript is useless.
If you're running Windows (which I wouldn't recommend), then you can run Proxomitron which is a stupidly named yet sublimely wonderful non-caching proxy server (like the Junkbusters one) that you can run on your own client side which will let you strip out all the annoying javascript crap you hate (in addition to filtering out ad banners). You'd actually be able to go to Geocities websites without that stupid branded logo in the corner, that is, if there is anything at Geocities worth seeing. The friend whose computer I set it up on has had only good things to say about it.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
You didn't actually forget to say "filters", but you forgot to say it in bold and say it repeatedly: Filters Filters Filters. Filters are the single biggest reason to use iCab over Netscape.
For those of you who don't already know, iCab has (built in) many of the features that normally require a non-caching local proxy like Junkbusters to achieve, and even then iCab usually does better. Image filtering by host (up yours, doubleclick.net), path name, file name, dimensions (ever notice how most ads are 468x59 or 468x60?), etc. Control over which cookies to accept and keep, which to discard, all done without the annoyance of "Don't you want to accept this cookie? If you want me to stop asking, you'll have to turn all cookies off or accept them all regardless."
Technically iCab isn't even a standalone, since it will let you send email. It sure is lightweight, though.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
I just downloaded the new version, and as a matter of fact am using it to post this message, but the Messenger component of Netscape still has a nasty bug in the mail filters (that I have reported many-a-time), that crashes Netscape immediately. The bug being that you cannot set a filter to move mail older than X number of days into another folder. It's been a couple months since the release of 4.7, and I'm sure I reported the bug before it was released, and still in this version it's not fixed. Shouldn't they at least put a tiny bit of effort into fixing the maybe 2 or 3 lines of code that are causing this error? I don't get it... they release it with new features, that no one gives a damn about, but don't fix the problems that are in current versions.
</rant>
Well none the less, I still prefer Netscape over IE anyday.
SuPz.orG
I'd really like to know how you got your M13 stable, because I've gotten so fed up with Communicator that I've switched to Netscape v3.04 (IMHO, their most stable Linux browser so far. :)
I've tried the precompiled Mozilla, and I've tried building it with a recent version of all of its required libraries, and I still get an unstable version, even without compiler optimizations.
Now, I'm thinking that the instability is caused by the fact that I'm removing components in the hope of added stability (Mail & News, for example). I'm very interested in how you got your copy stable.
It may be that you're running a Windows copy, which I've noticed are much more stable than the Linux ones. Is this the case, or have I overlooked something?
I'd be very appreciative of some help, since I use Linux full time, and this browser fiasco has gone on long enough.
- Epitaph
- *myshopping.tipString: Go to Slashdot
and then the following line in your ~/.netscape/preferences.js file:*destinations.tipString: Go to Freshmeat
*myshopping.documentationString: Go to Slashdot
*destinations.documentationString: Go to Freshmeat
*toolBar*myshopping.labelString: Slashdot
*toolBar*destinations.labelString: Freshmeat
*strings.22495:http://www.slashdot.org/
- config("toolbar.places.default_url","http://www.f
r eshmeat.net/");
Yes, every other line in that file says "user_pref", but this one has to say "config".There is also a similar entry for the search button, but I'm tired of typing and no one is going to read this anyway.
Jesus may love you, but I think you're garbage wrapped in skin.
A choice of masters is not freedom
I agree whole-heartedly that IE5 is in every aspect superior to Netscape Communicator.
Except for those that don't use windows. IE is of no interest, netscape is usable although it could be better of course.
Refer to http://www.mozilla.org/community.html under GTK:
GTK is a Motif-like GUI toolkit for Unix; some people prefer it to Motif for various reasons, and would like to make Mozilla work with GTK. This forum is for discussions about that effort.
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who understand unary, and those who don't.
The reason big software companies are still using glibc 2.0 is that glibc 2.2 rock sucks. It's much too buggy to get workaround or fix for all bugs (this assertion is only valid for big software, which use a wide range of the API).
If you want Netscape to use 2.2, writing a letter is not a solution. Go fix glibc bugs. If enough people do it, Netscape will switch.
I have been buying 30 copies each of the last 3 versions and have finally given up (except for the Linux version). It's gotten worse. If Netscape had not abandoned the CCK, I would still be interested in rolling it out on my 30 NT workstations. But they didn't, so I'm now stuck, ironically, with IE 'cos it's more manageble on 'doze, and IE is relegated to Linux. At the time I was doing prep work, Opera didn't have a JVM, and we needed that too. Of course, if IE5 *hadn't* been a better product than Comminicator 4.5-4.7 it would have been moot.....but to my amazement, it is/was.
Don't use M13 unless you're happy with what works and what doesn't. If you really want to use Mozilla, get daily builds. On my Linux box I have cronned a small script that cd's to my cvs/mozilla directory and runs gmake. I may have 56k, but that's what's so cool about cron... builds automated to occur at 4AM - sweet.
:). The promising bit is Mozilla uses *Linux* as the reference platform so we can be sure the bugs will be fixed. I hope the Win version is stable enough that it's widely adopted there.
I can't get Mozilla to build on Win32 using just Cygnus as an environment. The Mozilla pages assume you know a lot more about build debugging than I do, or maybe it really does require MC VC++? Oh well.
It's real nice to try Mozilla every day and see what's new, like the new "Sherlock-like" Search bar -- WAY COOL.
I can get about 20 minutes uptime in Mozilla vs. 30 mins in Netscape on Linux and Netscape/W32 an hour. I can extend my Linux uptime of Netscape by typing by Slashdot replies in Gnotepad and using cut and paste
The road is not that long though. We'll have a good Mozilla before the summer. Too bad no PC vendors will bundle it, and Apple probably won't either because of the UI design "violations" (I'll bet MS has Apple under contract to not 'support' Mozilla with code contributions, like they have supported Apache. This is pure speculation however).
Years now, YEARS, I've been using it, and every new release brings (a) no bug fixes that I can see and (b) nothing else. Every time you open a new window it allocates a few more megs of RAM, but for some reason the programmers didn't see fit to DEallocate that memory when you CLOSE the window. I've seen the netscape process take up 250 meg of memory, real and virtual, after just a few window opens and closes. It still remains to this day the only application that has managed to completely crash my system just because it sucks up ALL available memory if you let it run long enough. But it doesn't end there... oh, no...
I could go on... but what's the point? They're obviously never going to fix any of this stuff; they've had years to do it and haven't. God only knows what if anything changes between versions other than adding a button or two to the toolbar and changing the version number. But there really are no alternatives, are there? Once again, the lack of choices screws the consumer. How long will we go on paying for their apathy? It's not just Netscape, it's damn near every software manufacturer. And not just M$ stuff, either. Am I the only one who's very very very disappointed with the latest Samba implementation? No longer can you set what user.group to mount a share as. No longer will it automatically reconnect a share that's timed out. Software whose version number has increased should, IMHO, be BETTER than the earlier versions, but more and more these days I'm seeing new versions that are far worse than the previous version. What gives, O great developers? Why hast thou forsaken us?? Won't somebody please think of the children???
"All truth passes through three stages: first, it is ridiculed; next it is violently attacked; finally, it is held to be self-evident."
I suspect that Apple will ship Mozilla, at least when it's the official Netscape release. Despite Steve Jobs proclaiming his love for Internet Explorer, MacOS 9 does install Netscape as well, but just not as the default browser. The current Mozilla builds are pretty hideous on the Mac from a conformance to the Human Interface Guidelines view, but with Mozilla's themeability that could be cleaned up quite a bit.
(I'll bet MS has Apple under contract to not 'support' Mozilla with code contributions, like they have supported Apache. This is pure speculation however).Probably wrong. According to the Fizzilla (MacOS X port) page, Apple has already contributed patches to Mozilla to help get it running on OS X. I don't know if Microsoft has committed to a Carbon version of IE yet, so Mozilla might be the only way that MacOS X gets a native browser.
In snooping around the Mozilla home page to check on the status of the Mac FE, I also discovered that Apple is helping add ColorSync support to Mozilla.
this turned out to be a bug in XFree86's Xlib implementation of all places. The next 3.x version as well as XFree86 4.0 will fix this problem. Thanks goes to Keith Packard of the XF86 team for helping Netscape track this down!
This is my number 1 feature wish for a web browser! I would really like to be able to turn off the ability of web pages to control the Netscape window sizing/position, the BLINK tag (and a few others) and so forth. Turning off JavaScript would then be equivalent to turning off a tag; same with Java itself.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
I don't even display the navigation bar. All the buttons can be accessed through keyboard shortcuts and the pop-up menu (when you right click). It's loads faster to right-click and move mouse 2 pixels than to move the mouse allllll the way up to click the back button.
/. (again, window asking for words), and finally, BabelFish (window thing too, but it only translates phrase from French to English (can be customized))
t ionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term='+escape (term)
h web.com/encyclopedia/defineterm?term='+e scape(term)
g le.com/search?q='+escape(term)+'&num=100 &sa=Google+Search'
s hdot.org/search.pl?query='+escape(term)
f ='http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin /translate?jss&lp=en_fr&urltext='+escape(term)
I do however, have the Personal Toolbar. For my "special buttons" it goes: Slashdot, Dictionary.com (javascript window pops up and asks for word, then searches dictionary.com for it), TechWeb (same as dictionary.com but TechWeb is a little more "techish"), Google (again, window pops up and asks for words and then searches google with 1-100 results), Search
You don't even need a hex-editor for these. Simply find the folder called Personal Toolbar Folder, and create bookmarks with these URLs:
http://slashdot.org/
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Search word:',''))}if(term)location.href='http://www.dic
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Search word:',''))}if(term)location.href='http://www.tec
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Search word:',''))}if(term)location.href='http://www.goo
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Search word:',''))}if(term)location.href='http://www.sla
javascript:{void(t erm=prompt('Translate:',''))}if(term)location.hre
Now, isn't that easier than having to drag out your hex-editor?
First here is a CNet linux section search:
} if(term){ re= /\ /g; location.href='http://www.help.com/cgi-perl/search .pl?catpath=%2F2%2F191%2F226%2F537&query ='+escape(term.replace(re,"+"))+'&num=100&sa=Googl e+Search';}
} if(term){re= /\ /g;location.href='http://search-desc.ebay.com/sear ch/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult& ht=1&ebaytag1=ebayreg&srchdesc=y&category0=160&min Price=&maxPrice=&ebaytag1code=0&SortProp erty=MetaEndSort&st=0&query='+escape(term.replace( re,"+"))}
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Searchword:',''))
notice I have the term.replace stuff. Thats so spaces are turned into + rather than %20 via the escape. I added the replace stuff to the google and slashdot search. The re= and the {} need to be added along with the replace.
Oh yeh here is a search for eBay Computer section:
javascript:{void(term=prompt('Searchword:',''))
http://slashdot.org/sid=netscape If anyone cares to continue with tips, etc.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=nets cape
Start here:
http://slashdot.org/articles.pl?sid=ne tscape
href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl? sid=netscape i guess i should preview more often
on the way non-Linux users(even those attempting to learn Linux) are treated by a rather vocal component of the Linux community.
By posting as AC, you've also proven that you don't have the balls to stand behind your statements.
I have received a lot of offers of help due to my original post. Quite a few were rather embarrassed and apologetic that I had to experience this side of the Linux community. Thanks to the help I should have my Linux problems solved soon.