The Ultimate S.U.V.

Max the Merciless writes: "Take one part KITT, one part 007, one part Unimog, throw in a whole lot of high technology and you get the MaxiMog, perhaps the ultimate SUV! The MaxiMog is a go anywhere, do anything 'expedition system'. The vehicle (and trailer) runs a total of 7 separate computers, a high speed network and a google of different communications devices. I enquired as to the operating systems, and apparently "real time and safety related systems control run under QNX, scheduling and communications management under Linux, and there are a few apps that run under OS9/OSX and WinNT (hate the NT stuff, but some of the communications software is yet to be ported to anything else)". However, my favourite feature is the "High Intensity Air horn system - two air horns producing 137dba at 15 feet in front of vehicle. Note -- Due to high sound pressure levels only for use off road when no personnel are nearby!"

Comments

Weird

[Tony.Tang]

There's something weird about driving around in a car that has this many interconnected computers. One bug, and who knows what might happen. Fault tolerance should be zero on this thing

Re:Weird

[grammar nazi]

Nah...

Fault tolerance for the computers doesn't matter for the following reason:

If you look closely at the tires, you'll notice Firestone lettering. I think that computer-safety is of minimal concern.

Re:Weird

[Robotech_Master]

Funny, the FAQ says it uses heavy-duty Michelins.

Re:Weird

[menek]

The NT apps won't resist a roll-over, sure.

Re:Weird

[ergo98]

Not to mention that it SCREAMS top-heavy: A versatile off-road vehicle (which about 0.001% of the population actually needs) needs to withstand high angles of approach both from the back and left to right, and I suspect this vehicle would be on its side quite quickly.

Very few people need an SUV.

[tdelaney]

I believe that last year, more trucks/SUVs were sold in the US than cars. Compare that to Australia, where it's about 20:1 cars:trucks.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[flikx]

Who cares? The people who build/buy these monsters obviously do need an SUV.

I'll keep my suburban, thank you.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[rblancarte]

The point of this is not like the Soccer Mom SUV's sold in America. This is a real expiditionary vehicle that is designed for real work uses. This particular SUV was designed to transport useful scientific equipment to where it needs to go, which are usually places that cars and regular SUVs can't go.
I agree, most people don't need SUVs. Hell, most SUVs hardly ever have a drop of dirt on them. But this is slightly different.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[PlazMatiC]

You can do either.

They are alternative spellings of the same word, as this site says.

Dictionary.com lists 'enquire' as a 'Variant of inquire'.

Also, the Concise Oxford English Dictionary lists enquire and inquire as having the same meaning.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Anonymous DWord]

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=enq uire

enquire
v.

Variant of inquire.

[Middle English enquiren, from Old French enquerre, from Vulgar Latin *inquaerere]

Sorry grammar nazi. Keep readin' those textbooks. You'll get it one of these days.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Anne Thwacks]

I presume that SUV does not mean "Second User Vehicle" in America - why are you people so illiterate?

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Samrobb]

I'll agree, and go a step further: nobody needs an SUV.

What bugs me is that the definition of SUV seems to be "anything that isn't a truck or a car".

I live on a farm; my wife and I have two 4x4 vehicles - we need them just to get up our 1/4 mile long driveway in the winter. We're generally off-road at least 2-3 times a week, for whatever reason. When I left for work this morning, there was a dead deer at the bottom of our driveway; my wife will probably end up draging it out past our upper field to let the coyotes have a treat. The last couple of weeks have been an extended doe season here in southwestern PA, and we've had both cars out on our property a couple of times in 1-2 feet of snow, looking for jerks who are fundamentally incapable of understanding that a &quotPosted - No Hunting" sign applies to them.

In short - even we don't need an SUV. What we really need is a truck; but it's a pain to find an affordable truck that will take two infant seats :-/ So we ended up with a couple of vehicles (RAV4 and a Jeep) that people assume are SUVs, because - well, becuase they're not cars, and they're not trucks. Never mind that the Jeep is essentially a truck with a hard top and a back seat, the RAV4 is essentially a 4x4 station wagon with better clearance, and both of them manage to get around 25 miles/gallon. We're eeeeevil SUV drivers.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[UberLame]

Second User Vehicle? Heck, I'm at least the 3, probably the forth user of my vehicle.

My sister's car, she is the sixth user (at least, I only know the history back that far).

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[joshfergy]

It would be a shame to see a vehicle of this sort manage to find it's way into some soccer mom's garage. I would hope that everyone could have a respect for it's capabilities and understand that there is a real need for a vehicle like this somewhere outside of suburbites with inferiority complexes. As for me, I will stick with my 90 jeep wrangler that isn't even fuel injected.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[CrayzyJ]

Jeeps are NOT SUVs and SUVs are NOT Jeeps.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Malc]

Where I'm originally from (UK), "enquire" and "inquire" are different. "Enquire" means to ask a question. "Inquire" is more of an investigation, thus when somebody "inquires", that might make many "enquiries". However, it seems that isn't the case in America where few people make the same distinction. In fact, from my experiences over here, it would appear that most Americans view "enquire" as an infrequently used alternative to "inquire".

From my Oxford dictionary:

enquire v. to ask. enquiry n. Although these words are often used in exactly the same way as inquire, there is a tendency to use en- as a formal word for 'ask' and in- for an investigation.

inquire v. to make an inquiry. inquirer n.; inquiry n. an investigation, especially an official one.
See note under enquire.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Malc]

Oh and to further what I was saying: although the British make a distinction with the spelling, they don't with the pronunciation. They're both pronounced "in-choir" (although to most Americans, I'm sure the "in" bit sounds more of a cross between "in" and "en"), which compares with the more phonetic American pronunciation which sounds more like "in-query".

So, the grammar nazis was FOS, and the original "enquiries" reference in the story was completely correct.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Malc]

What bugs me is that the definition of SUV seems to be "anything that isn't a truck or a car".

What bugs me is that the name doesn't even fit AT ALL. It's like calling a Geo Metro a "high performance racing car"! Take the Ford Explorer for example: it's not very sporty, and if you think it can carry all your sports gear, you'd be wrong because it's not much of a utility vehicle either. Apparently Ford tries not to draw attention to the max load of the vehicle, which can be achieved by filling with 5 average American males WITHOUT anything in the trunk. Loading it up beyond that point runs the risk of losing the tire treads, which we all know happens anyway!

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Samrobb]

Sorry - didn't specify: we own a Jeep Cherokee, which generally gets lumped into the SUV category, like it or not, just because it's bigger and has a hard top. Stadard Jeeps are nice, but yah, they're definitely not SUVs.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[Mr. Slippery]

The people who build/buy these monsters obviously do need an SUV.

Nonsense. SUVs are (for most owners) the grownup equivalent of Brittney Spears albums; a demand created by marketing, not out of any genuine need for the product.

Re:Very few people need an SUV.

[jo42]

SUV: Stupid Urban Vanity

Where is my 802.11b antenna?

[msolnik]

I think they should add an 802.11b antenna to it. That why I dont have to point my omni out the window in order to get on Mobilestar or Houston Wireless Freenets.

The question we're all asking...

[strictnein]

Where's the turret?

Re:The question we're all asking...

[MemeRot]

I'm sure these folks could install one for them. Check it out, a joystick controlled .50 caliber machine gun (or optionally a 40 mm grenade launcher) that is stealthed inside your vehicle and deploys in less than 10 seconds. Slope too steep for even your expedition vehicle? Blast it flat like any true explorer.

Some Considerations

[BradNelson]

I'm disappointed. I kind of hoped that the ultimate SUV wouldn't be so gosh-darn ugly. I have to admit though, that thing has just about everything that I don't need. Maybe for my next African safari.

Re:Some Considerations

[rblancarte]

Ugly? That depends on your point of view. I happen to find the Benz / LR Defender / OLD Toyota Land Cruiser Boxy look kind of cool. Much better than things like the Vehicross.

Don't forget, we now live in a society (US I mean) where SUVs are everywhere, none are off road capable, and most are areodynamic, which is pointless considering how crappy their gas milage is AND that they are not designed for speed.

-RonB

Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot...

[maggard]

Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot near you driven by a harried woman with 3 kids, one of whom is screaming, the other watching a DVD, the third throwing items out the window while Mom attempts to talk on her cellphone, drink her double non-fat latte, fish a hairbrush out of her purse, and tune in the weather report as she weaves about like a drunken sailor and flatten two lost seniors, their grocery carriage, and a half dozen sub-compacts.

The vehicle of course will never see anything rougher then the family's paved mini-mansion driveway where it will of course be painted to contrast nicely with the house and gardens and show up the pricy but effete Mercades-Benz SUV the Joneses across the street dared buy.

MPG highway average: 9.5

[Fishy]

9.5 MPG!!!!

Anyone stupid enough to drive that should be taken out back and shot, they are just too dangerous to keep in the gene pool.

F

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[strictnein]

What did you expect it to be? 60 MPG? Considering what other "standard" SUVs get (BMW X5s, for instance, average about 14-15 mpg (from what I've heard), Jeep Grand Cherokees average about 15-16 (from personal experience)) 9.5 MPG isn't half bad. It's actually better than I would expect.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[Waffle Iron]

Let's see... 4 guys have Honda Accords that get ~25 MPG. They each drive 10,000 miles/year, using 1600 gallons of gas.

One guy decides he just has to have one of these things. Now he's using 1052 gallons of gas/year. To keep the total amount of gas used constant (and in the grand scheme of things, there is a fixed amount of gas in the world), the other three guys would only get 182 gallons each. They would each have to find a car that gets 54 MPG and suffer the safety and performance penalties.

Since it costs so much more to make a car that gets that kind of mileage, the government will develop a program to subsidize the three guys' new cars at taxpayer expense.

Net result: one guy gets a self esteem boost every time he runs down the block to pick up a package of diapers. Three guys have to drive pokey little shitboxes to compensate. The taxpayers foot the bill.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[J.D. Hogg]

"9.5 MPG!!!!"

I own a late sixties muscle car that gets less than that. But the difference is, it gets out of the garage on rare occasions, delivers over 500 horses, gobs of torque and looks a whole lot better than this horror of a truck :)

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[moyix]

There's a game theory paper waiting to be written somewhere in there, I know it ;)

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[Blow Jo]

*scratches head to figure out how the taxpayer foots the bill* *scratches head some more* *thinks that since he's using more gas, the big SUV guy pays more taxes... also payed more taxes on purchase of large item and payed more taxes on maintenence of large item ... wonders why this will make goverment create new subsidy program* *and all this conversation is for not because it's not like Ford is going to start rolling these things out* Your logic is ok, except for the fact that we're not dealing with 8 drivers here, we're dealing with 200 million (in the US alone). And one guy driving a Geo Metro completely balances it out.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[Howie]

Three guys have to drive pokey little shitboxes to compensate.

Yeah, the BMW 530d is a real pokey shitbox (50mpg extra-urban, 180bhp). European manufacturers are already close to and above (Audi A2 - 70-something mpg) those mileage figures.

I'd guess the Audi A2 (but probably not a BMW 5-series) cost less than the SUV.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[killmenow]

I know...I expected that trailer to be an external gas tank.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[peccary]

Note, those are Imperial gallons, not US gallons.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[SnapShot]

It's very difficult to find diesel cars in the U.S.. I think VW imports a few models, but aside from that I've only seen very large trucks (Ford F250 and larger and the Dodge and Chevy equivalents) with diesel engines. I'd love to get a light pickup with a diesel engine if I could find one.

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[Jaysyn]

Heh, my step-father has a custom Blazer that pulls about 5mpg. I've seen this 500Hp monster pull down trees, go though stuff you couldn't walk through, and pull a doublewide trailer out into the middle of a street (no tires) when the scumbags residing in it wouldn't take the hint of the eviction notice....

As for the gene-pool, I promise you he's a smarter man than 90% of the people you know.

Jaysyn

Re:MPG highway average: 9.5

[Jaysyn]

How much do you think a (not particularly well maintained) trailer weighs? All it took was a good head start, some kind of military grade cable to snatch it with, and gravity once the trailer got off of the cinderblocks it was on top of. You'd have to see/drive this truck to understand. He's probably dropped $15K into since he decided to fix it up, most of it into the drivetrain & engine.

Come on, this is slashdot, why the hell would I brag about a 4x4 if it wasn't true. I don't even like SUV's that much.

Jaysyn

One part Kitt

[Mr Thinly Sliced]

I take it the one part kitt is in fact the cutting edge fashion

This is the ONE Humvee! :)

[Bombcar]

Check out The One Humvee to see the real Ultimate SUV!

Re:This is the ONE Humvee! :)

[DaveSchool]

A Humvee is the military version, Hummer is a brand name owned by GM, who sells the civilian (wussy) versions.

How stable could this be?

[tooth]

Hmm, I don't know... I think if I sneezed at this thing sideways the breeze would tip it over. It seems far to high for its width.

Re:How stable could this be?

[BradNelson]

I thought about that. It does look too tall. This thing could have more tip-overs than the Ford Explorer.

Re:How stable could this be?

[Striker5]

The Mog is basically a military vehicle. The ADF use them and they're almost impossible to tip.

Re:How stable could this be?

[Mac Nazgul]

Read the FAQ...

Your question is answered. With so much weight at a low center of gravity it is very stable. It also has a computer controlled suspension system.

Go to the website... Read the FAQ...

Re:How stable could this be?

[psych031337]

The FAQ says:
FROM THE PICTURES, IT LOOKS TOP HEAVY.
While the vehicle has a high profile to provide adequate internal headroom (BTW - It's the same height as the original Unimog U90 chassis on which it was based.), the center of gravity is quite low due to the placement of heavy items such as the Engine, Generator, Batteries and Fuel Tanks. Additionally, the vehicle has front and rear antisway bars and an auto leveling air suspension system to assist in dynamic stability.

Re:How stable could this be?

[Fjord]

Ah yes, the same rationale that would have school busses tipping over at every slight corner.

Re:How stable could this be?

[tooth]

Reply to myself... hmmm... Well, It was acutally a joke, but people took my comment seriously. I was thinking about high wind situations more than anything else. Ever towed a caravan in high wind gusts?

Truck not SUV

[Student_Tech]

Its FAQ says that:

The MaxiMog(TM) is a Truck not an SUV and requires a driver's license for a heavy (over 12,500lbs) vehicle with air brakes.

So I doubt that we would see these being driven by soccer moms. Although it would be cool for a road trip.

nice thing but...

[jlemmerer]

is this thing only for himalaya pro's and maybe army 3c personal? for all those guys that want a smooth car, volkswagen and mercedes benz offer internet kits for their cars that are by far more efficient and less - say - conspicuous

Rebels

[Renraku]

Finally bringing the Beowulf cluster to the redneck/jock clique.

Has someone told Clive Cussler?

[Robotech_Master]

Something tells me that we'll be seeing Dirk Pitt tooling around in one of these in a future NUMA action-adventure novel.

Re:Has someone told Clive Cussler?

[Robotech_Master]

Dude, I have 50 Karma; check the signature. I post at a score of 2 automatically when I want to.

Re:Has someone told Clive Cussler?

[Robotech_Master]

Actually, I was being perfectly serious. Clive Cussler has a habit of including in his books whatever nifty new (or old) vehicle catches his eye. The Moller Skycar has made an appearance, for instance, as has the Glomar Explorer, and even the truck that might be considered the direct predecessor of this very expedition vehicle, the great enclosed expeditionary truck that was taken to the Antarctic on an expedition in the 1930s. I fully expect to see this Mog thing pop up in Cussler's next novel, as soon as he hears about it.

If you don't like it, well, you can register an account and post some thoughtful and insightful comments, and before long you'll be posting at 2, too. And you'll even occasionally get moderation points yourself, so if you think I'm overrated you can mod me down. Other than that, well, your whining is worth precisely as much as any other AnonCoward whining, and I don't really know why I'm even bothering to respond to it at this length. You don't matter; if you did matter you wouldn't be anonymous.

Oh dear, another road clogger

[J.D. Hogg]

So, is this going to be another very large very heavy off-road capable vehicle that idiotic SUV lovers will use to drive 5 miles to work everyday on perfectly maintained flat roads, doing less than 15 miles to the gallon, and threatening bicycle riders like myself ?

Hold on while I masturbate furiously in anticipation ... :-(

Re:Oh dear, another road clogger

[oever]

Why not a bike with a PDA? I don't think you need a 7! computers on your vehicle. It's ridiculous and kills the environment with way too much CO2 generation.

Look at a nice alternative.

Re:Oh dear, another road clogger

[WiPEOUT]

On his bicycle, he's going to be too busy dodging soccer mums in SUVs to look at his PDA.

Re:Oh dear, another road clogger

[Anonymous Coward]

The Unimog, (the machine on which on this technological crap is being dumped) has been around since 1948. It's an incredibly sturdy, reliable and easily adapted machine. It's widely used for all sorts of purposes all over the world.

Examples:

With a trencher it digs to a depth of 6 and a half feet and refills the trench with a front power-take-off-driven back-filling auger, completely operated by one person.

At factories, it can serve as the prime mover, fire pumper truck, crane, forklift, sweeper, and snow removal tool.

Many communities, (12,500+ municipalities in Europe), buy it for winter service, fire protection, search and rescue, disaster relief, road construction, underground cable-laying by both trench and plough-in methods, lawn and field mowing, waste removal, sewer and street cleaning, tree transplanting, utilities boom truck and mast erection, even grave digging, and more.

You can run UNIMOGS on rails/wheels too. Thousands of UNIMOGS can even crawl onto the tracks and hydraulicly lower chassis-mounted guide mechanisms for the purpose of shunting rail cars or for simply getting to the scene of railroad or other emergencies by the most direct rail route.

They can pull up to 600 tons with the appropriate gearing, and can be geared down to 50 metres an hour if neccessary.

Maybe they will get used as SUV's, but as far as I can tell, they haven't had any particular recreational usage, (apart from enthusiasts!), and I doubt that is going to change as they have always been bred as working vehicles, and aren't specced with the kinds of options packs that SUV'ers have come to expect. (This 007 toy excepted)...

Check www.carradine.net/articles/ince/ for more Unimog History or www.carradine.net for Unimog resource...

Re:Oh dear, another road clogger

[sunhou]

In Grand Theft Auto 3 on the PS2, as you're driving around in stolen cars, there's an SUV commercial on the radio sometimes that goes roughly "I live alone and commute to work by highway, so of course I need a vehicle that seats 12 and can drive across arctic tundra..." GTA3 rocks. They did so many things right in that game, e.g. totally nailing radio announcers and commercials.

UNIMOG

[clinko]

This is actually a redesign of a very old "S.U.V." called the UniMog
Unimog info

Re:UNIMOG

[zyklone]

I think calling the UniMogs SUVs is a bit wrong.
They are UVs perhaps.

They are not exactly know for their extreme speed.

Re:UNIMOG

[ProfBooty]

i was under the impression that besides being used by militaries in europe the unimog was used as a tractor, albet a tractor which could do 65 mph yet also be geared down to 100 meters per hour.

Re:UNIMOG

[xtype]

Actually, Mercedes is still producing the UNIMOG (in various forms) for military uses.
The UN uses them for radio trucks, mine sweepers, troop carriers, etc., etc.

You could just buy one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI. dl l?ViewItem&item=600465946
as a platform to make your on MaxiMog.

Just for fun...

[Tsar]

If this were equipped with 802.11a (not b) networking, could a traffic jam of these things become an ad-hoc Beowulf cluster?

Also, did anyone else notice that the domain's admin contact is Bran Ferren of Disney Imagineering? This may be more imagination than engineering...

Re:Just for fun...

[savage_panda]

I don't get the "earth-like planet" angle of sales. There just isen't that many out there.
And shouldn't the MaxiMog have some kind of air tanks, or oxygen system if they were going to go for that angle? Unless they expect us to hold our breath for an awfully long time.

Thump in the trunk?

[meth88]

Yeah but can it blast some kind of crap hip-hop in every direction for three blocks? You know, for the chicks......

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[LadyLucky]

Damn you to hell and back!

You stole my joke!

No shovel?!?!?!

[vkt-tje]

Maybe I miseed it in the specs, but I did not see a shovel nor sandplates.

Did the guys who designed this thing ever look at the Paris-Dacar rally for example?

The first dune they hit this thing is stuck.

PS. I would also like to see a trailer being pulled through sandunes :-)

Is it just me, or ...

[J.D. Hogg]

Am I the only one who saw this thing and imagined it standing on its rear wheels shouting "transformer" ?

Price..

[LadyLucky]

WHAT DOES IT COST AND CAN I BUY ONE?
Well, let's just say that it costs more than a Hummer and Less than a Boeing 777 -- and you can't buy this one

If you have to ask.....

Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[GoRK]

So for those of you who want to build your own one of these beasts...

A couple months ago some friends of mine and I bought an old super heavy duty school bus to deck out with gear. GPS, wireless lan, satelite transponders, audio gear, radar (marine radar), HUD, etc... basically anything ridiculously gratuitous that you see on the MAXIMOG vehicle. Our vehicle has 450 horses and weighs about 3.5 tons gutted. We got it from a podunk town that was using it as a fire and rescue support vehicle to haul rescue workers and equipment such as the jaws of life, chemical fire extenguishers, etc. It is a beastly machine.

Anyway for our vehicle systems, the design documents are to be public domain (with author copyrights of course) and support software will be GPL'd or BSD licensed. There are the beginnings of a project on sourceforge and photos. Basically the whole project is focused on building a totally insane techno machine from a bunch of junk on the cheap.

Check it out!

Oh yeah, it's already named Richard, III.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[Bandman]

Oh man, thats awesome :) I've often thought about rigging out a step van (ala Sneakers) but I've never had the money, so I'm living vicariously through you. I can't wait to see how this turns out. :)

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[UberLame]

"the design documents are to be public domain (with author copyrights of course)"

That doesn't make any sense. By definition, public domain means no copyright. It sounds like what you want is the GNU free documentation license. That allows you to maintain your copyright still.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[Speare]

Anyway for our vehicle systems, the design documents are to be public domain (with author copyrights of course) and support software will be GPL'd or BSD licensed.

*sigh*

If you create something, copyright is implicitly granted to you.

If you explicitly register it with a government, or mark it with a copyright notice, or both, the copyright is made more enforceable in courts, but the copyright already existed.

If you transfer or license copyright to another party, then they can copy or distribute it within the bounds of the agreement. It depends on the bounds of the agreement as to whether you, the creator, can continue to copy or distribute it.

Putting something in the Public Domain negates and relinquishes all copyrights. That's the point. The thing may then be copied and distributed and modified and incorporated in derivative works by anyone in the world, without attribution. The only thing that is still not possible ethically or morally is to try to assign or limit reproduction with a new copyright on any substantially unchanged version.

It is rare, but sometimes excessive licensed reproduction, to the point of cultural ubiquity, can negate all copyrights on a work and put it into the Public Domain. For example, NASA's photograph of Earth during Apollo 17 mission was once the most reproduced photo in the world, with hundreds of thousands or millions of licensed placements. Its ubiquity dilutes its controls.

If you consciously put your vehicle design documents into the Public Domain, then you can choose whether or not to include attribution of the authors. However, saying that Joe Blow wrote the plans is a far cry from claiming, asserting or enforcing a right to control copying.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[Sunda666]

looks cool, but the offroad performance of such a bus sucks, so it is basically useless (at least for me)

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[UberLame]

Err, that is a longer (and more complete) version of what I said in a comment to that guy. However, you version does have one slight flaw in it. The bit about NASA's copyright to a picture of earth specifically. All intellectual property works created by directly by NASA (as opposed to a contractor) are public domain. In particular, all pictures that they release, whether regular camera shots or hubble telescope pictures, are public domain. There are searchable databases of all public domain government pictures on the net which are usefully if you want pictures of either space or underwater.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[PTBarnum]

So for those of you who want to build your own one of these beasts

I (with a bunch of friends) have built my own.

SEMOC is a 60' long 20 ton articulated city bus with a sophisticated array of communications gear. The computer system isn't anything special, but it serves our needs.

The bus is intended for use as a mobile command center for either special events (e.g. parades, street fairs, large public gatherings) or emergency management. Given that, we felt it was more important to provide a wide range of communication gear that organizations wouldn't normally have access to, then to provide computer equipment which they probably already have. Still, I expect that as time, money, or equipment donations allows we'll add more sophisticated data systems.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[GoRK]

Well, officially placing a document into the public domain does indeed surrender copyright. The idea with the design documents is to release them into the public domain except that author credit must be kept intact.

Re:Open Source (Open Design) Short Bus

[GoRK]

I was not aware of this license. I checked it out and it sounds like what we're after. Thanks for telling me about it.

By public domain with author copyright, I really meant Public domain except that author credit must be preserved. The GNU FDL goes a little bit beyond that, but is also probably fine for what we're doing.

It will have good use

[sasha328]

I know quite a few people will complain that this SUV will only be used on city roads and never see off-road service; while this may be true, this vehicle will have very good usage in rugged and remote places like in outback Australia. There are similar (not hight tech though) vehicles made in Australia by OKA Motor Company (see here, not link to OKA sorry) which is exclusivly used where there are absolutely no roads.

I can easily see a market for this (undoubtedly, very expensive, and so, out of reach for the Joneses) SUV within the mining and "exploration" industry in places like Australia, Russia, Canada, Africa and South America. That, I think is the real market for this vehicle.

I'd better start saving for one.

Basic Expedition drill...

[ratbag]

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Wayyyyy too much stuff to break down in the middle of nowhere.

Still, if you can afford it, you can probably afford to bring a few Land Rovers with you to get you out of trouble when the computer-controlled suspension starts getting jiggy.

Rob

Re:Basic Expedition drill...

[Rouven]

That's exactly what I was thinking. A friend of mine and his dad build these as a hobby (though not on a scale like this, they just have GPS and a lot of tools and spare parts). They drove one through the Sahara. Now, he's an excellent driver, but I know they at least toppled over once or twice. It just happens in the dunes. No big deal -- the truck is almost impossible to break, you just need someone to pull you up (or dig for a couple of hours). The question is, would all this nifty equipment survive it (HDs?). I doubt it.

Excessive?

[ImaLamer]

No, this machine isn't excessive. The add-ons are excessive. Jet boat and unmanned aircraft?

I guess the 'James Bond' types will be easy to spot in the near future. He's the guy driving the huge ambulance with a jet boat on the back and spy plane on the roof.

It will be an obvious choice who to kill for the bad guys.

Re:Excessive?

[mizhi]

So uh... how many tankers does it take to keep the thing fueled?

Re:Excessive?

[Kwil]

Actually, the James Bond types will likely be driving this: http://www.tacom.army.mil/tardec/nac/projects/smar trck.pdf (PDF file).

No jet boat, but drops oil, smoke-screens, pepper spray, teargas, electro-shocking door handles, bulletproof, and with some get up and go to boot.

You're using the word "fault tolerance" wrong

[autopr0n]

Fault tolerance means that errors are recoverable from and don't cause the system to go down totally. Fault tolerance is a good thing. Fault tolerant computers sell for a lot of money.

And as far as the computer systems on this machine, there is probably a lot of fault tolerance over all, most of the computers are not going to be mission critical in the sense that they need to be there for the car to work. Most cars these days already have multiple interconnected computers running the engine and breaking system, but this adds separate machines for things like communication, GPS, etc. And if those machines go down, well, who cares? Just reboot em while on the road (well, you might want to pull over if you don't have a passenger, but you get the idea). It simply doesn't matter if their up constantly. And it is possible to make computers that don't crash ever, and they seem to be going that rout (using QNX for more critical systems, along with the separate computers and networks that undoubtedly run the engine)

Re:You're using the word "fault tolerance" wrong

[RetroGeek]

Most cars these days already have multiple interconnected computers running the engine and breaking system ...

So that is why my car is in the shop every so often. It has a built-in breaking system. Well, at least my brakes work....

DEJA SUV! Does this remind anyone...

[Tsar]

Of the Future SUV site? It hosts such massive concept vehicles as the Kenworth Pilgrimage, the Grand Dominator, the Eliminator (a new version of last year's Fornicator), and the ever-popular Peterbuilt Crusader All-Sport Denali Outback Eddie Bauer 5.9 Limited.

SUVs...

[LadyLucky]

I'm told that these things are actually quite capable in off-road situations. Naturally I have never seen one of these "in the wild", but i have a friend of a friend who "claims" to have seen one in an off-road situation.

These claims may of course be merely rumour.

who cares?

[autopr0n]

Well, considering that only like .00002% of even urban america even has WiFi access out in the open I'd say it would be kind of pointless. And if you had the money/need to buy a machine like this you'd probably be able to get the antenna added custom.

Cool for road trip? NO.

[flikx]

The specs state this thing has a fairly standard 5.7 L Chevy under the hood. That's not much power for moving such a large amount of weight. Dual alternators and other accessories further drag this thing down. Plus, I speak from experience when I state that a 5.7 L chevy, old or new isn't the best for moving something heavy when you want to keep up with the 75MPH speed limit on a moderate hill.

This thing is good for off-road trips. Excess power under the hood in that situation wastes fuel, which is obviously a bad thing. With a highway monster, a good 454 suits me just fine.. and if I don't mind stopping to pick up $50 of gasoline every 2-300 miles or so, I can climb hills at about 75+ MPH.

Re:Cool for road trip? NO.

[DaveSchool]

This isn't a "fairly standard 5.7 Chevy V-8" if you were paying attention, you would have noticed it's a LS1, not the 350 you were thinking of. Unless you drive a 97+ Corvette or a 98+ F-Body you really wouldn't know, plus this one's obviously modified, because it says it's putting out around 360HP, the Corvette's only puts out 350. But I do agree with you on the 454 point, this thing should have a big-block.

Re:Cool for road trip? NO.

[miracle69]

Having seen one, and ridden in one with original specifications I can tell you that a 5.7L Chevy is much much more powerful than the 90 HP engine that the Mogs originally came with. And I can tell you that the gearing on these things is so low that 90 Horses would take the original Mog (which was used as a mobile electronic communication base) over just about anything. Basically, it's an old Humvee.

With a 5.7L Chevy, this thing is probably unstoppable right up to grades that flip it over, especially if the original tranny or gear ratios are still being used.

Re:Cool for road trip? NO.

[rogerl]

What this thing needs is the new GM / Isuzu Duramax diesel engine and the 5 speed allison automatic transmission. Power and torque to spare and it might due something to that 9.5 MPG. Maybe double it to 19 MPG.

Re:Cool for road trip? NO.

[x0]

An even better choice would be a Diesel. All the torque of a big block with about 2 to 3 times the fuel efficiency.

I have an '82 K5 Blazer with a naturally aspirated 6.2L Diesel. I routinely get 22-25MPG (US). This is a 6000lb 4x4. It doesn't have the HP of a gasser, but the torque is right up there in the BB range.

A slightly newer 6.5TD would be a good choice, or alternatively, a new 6.6 Duramax.

Re:Cool for road trip? NO.

[csb]

The Duramax would be a great choice, I've read nothing but stellar things about it.

If 520 lb-ft of torque is simply not enough for you, then drop in a Caterpillar 3126B -- that's the plant which Ford put in their F-650 SuperCrewzer. It sports 860 lb-ft of torque, along with the same 300bhp.

In any case, this vehicle (however nice it is, otherwise) is clearly tainted by the fact it has a mere petrol engine. Convert to DERV immediately.

-cheers, csb

the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

OS's by law have to be embedded type OS's. It's ilegal to run the controls such as safety and what makes it work with anything else such as windows, macOS,linux (embedded forms would be ok). They have to be embedded to help prevent against a crash. Any bug while driving could result in injury/death. Also since the cars computer controller is never used by things like entertainment systems and such it doesn't have to support much other than a lot of IO and managing things such as fuel maps for the engine. The auto industry does most of their prototyping with Dspace. Production cars use a finalized version of this. Typicaly you have little control over this programing for safety reasons, you can read the codes (as in error code) but not much more. This is not something people shouldn't mess with. I would be surprised if QNX is the real OS controling critical things. 1) because Benz makes the unimog so its' controls would have been made by them. 2) QNX is pretty advanced, for your car you want it as simple as possable to avoid bugs. 3) its pretty big and needs a decent CPU, cars use very lame CPU's in them, and many of them. Anything thats more than a few thousand lines of code would probly be to much.

BB

Technology is a means, not an end

[xxSOUL_EATERxx]

Haves, have-nots, rich and poor, the schism between those with access to capital and those without grows daily. Consider the MaxiMog, an awesome powerhouse of scientific research technology packed into a bomb-proof ultra-rugged expeditionary vehicle (with impressive 9.5 mpg, given what a tank the thing is). Part Armored Personnel Carrier, part laboratory, the MaxiMog is equipped to explore the four corners of the earth and beyond, given its boat and aerial reconnaissance vehicle options.

No price information is mentioned on the website. Presumably, if you have to ask, you can't afford one.

Who will be using the MaxiMog? Who will be storming the remote regions of the planet in data-gathering expeditions?

Why the rich, of course.

As expensive technology plays a larger and larger role in scientific research, the danger grows that developing countries who lack the funds to train people to understand and utilize new scientific breakthroughs, will fall farther and farther behind.

Technology is a means, not an end. It is a betrayal of the humyn impulse to obtain wisdom if the scientific advances are accessible only to a small fraction of humynity. The tech and knowledge gap resulting from income inequality is one of the central dilemmas of modern society.

Weather report

[autopr0n]

If you had this thing, why the hell would you care what the weather was like?

Re:Weather report

[sharkey]

Water-spots on the paint, salt corrosion in icy weather. She needs to know when to pull it into the garage, doesn't she?

SUVs are evil

[cliveholloway]

I am dying to print and randomly place the following sticker on SUVs at my local green supermarket:

"I'm an environmental oxymoron - I buy organic and drive an SUV"

.02

cLive ;-)

Re:SUVs are evil

[klund]

Standard equipment should include a bumper sticker that says I'm changing the climate. Ask me how!

Re:SUVs are evil

[UberLame]

"My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth. Who wrote yours? "

What word processor is that? The only software I've seen of Knuth's in TeX. Never saw a word processor. That would be cool to see.

Re:SUVs are evil

[whjwhj]

I've been shopping at a co-op for years and have yet to see an SUV in the lot (I've looked). Lots of Volvo's and Saabs, but no SUV's.

Go to the mall, however, and it's a different story.

Re:SUVs are evil

[jheinen]

Tell it to all the treehuggers driving 20 year old VWs held together by eco-stickers but which spew more noxious gases than a coal-fired power plant.

My Expedition gets pretty decent milage and emits less pollutants than my 10 year old Honda Civic.

-Jeff

Re:SUVs are evil

[jheinen]

Actually, if I just wanted something big, I would have got an Excursion or Suburban. As it is, I got what I need to get the job done.

I live in the foothills of the Cascade mountains, and a 4WD is a necessity. I also go camping and do other things that require lots of cargo space and the ability to tow a trailer.

A sedan just can't do what I need it to.

It is also a comfort to know that in an accident (which I've never had in my life, knock on wood) the odds are in my family's favor. You may be comfortable driving your family around in a go-kart amidst some of the lunatics that are on the road, but that's your choice. I like a few extra tons of steel between me and a drunk driver.

-Jeff

Re:SUVs are evil

[jheinen]

"What I load of shit. Over here in Europe, the people who live on the Alps do not all say that they need 4wd, most of them have 2wd."

Well, where I live tire chains are required by law unless you own a 4WD vehicle. I can't count the number of times I've passed little 2WD cars with chains in the mountain passes stuck hopelessly in the snow. I routinely stop and help tow such people out of their predicament. They seem pretty happy when I come by in my big old evil monster SUV and help them out.

"More disingenious lies. This is a straw man agrument. You know what is much more likely than your scenario? You or another member of your family hiting and killing another driver in an accident because you want to drive a car the size of a Romanian tank."

Better them than me. There is no law preventing anyone else from driving a large vehicle. If they wish to have the same level of protection, then they can buy one themselves. My first priority is the safety of my family. Always has been, always will be. I'm not particularly concerned that I will be the cause of an accident. I have been driving for 20 years and have a perfect driving record, I drive safely and have a lot of experience driving large vehicles (read: tractor trailers). I worry about the other nuts on the road. If someone drives like an ass and ends up squashed under my truck due to their own recklessness, then that's their problem and my conscience will suffer not one whit. I am under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to drive a certain type of vehicle simply because some idiot might get hurt if they collide with me.

"Just say you want a big car with a high wheelbase so you know if you crash it will most likely kill anyone else and leave your family safe, because you are inconsiderate and cruel."

OK, I'm inconsiderate and cruel. But I'd rather be inconsiderate, cruel and ALIVE, than kind, caring and DEAD.

Re:SUVs are evil

[jheinen]

"What a jackass. This is a zero zum game. If you buy a huge car to 'protect' your family (lame excuse) the person you hit with a small car will suffer much worse."

As I said, I drive what I drive because no other vehicle can do what I need it to do. Show me a sedan that can get me to work through two feet of freshly fallen snow, carry seven passengers and a pile of camping gear, and I'll happily buy one.

Re:SUVs are evil

[cliveholloway]

Actually, I don't drive.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

cLive ;-)

Uh, probably not

[autopr0n]

If you'll read the site you'll see you'll need a special drivers license just to drive the thing (well, maybe the cops won't know that :P) so I doubt it'll be used by soccer moms.

I have a feeling this is mostly going to be used by people who actually need one.

Re:Uh, probably not

[UberLame]

A lot of SUVs, the Ford Valdez (or whatever the real name of the really big one, Expidition, I think) in particular, often require a special license, a rule that is rarely enforced.

Re:Uh, probably not

[stilwebm]

Its the Excursion (because you have to go out on an excursion just to find enough adjacent parking spaces to park the damn thing)

Re:Uh, probably not

[UberLame]

I'm sorry, ever since Greenpeace called it the Ford Valdez, I've never managed to remeber the real name. I'm not overly environmentally concerned, but I do think that vehicle is just plain ridiculous.

Re:Uh, probably not

[stilwebm]

I completely agree. I saw a woman who was probably about 5ft tall driving one in downtown Nashville today. She couldn't see to change lanes, but it didn't matter much since no one really wanted to be beside the beast as it spilled out across the lane anyway due to its huge width. I don't understand the point of having one of those in a suburban or especially in an urban setting.

SUV's?

[Jonny 290]

The ultimate SUV is the one that's flipped upside down on the side of the road while the clueless driver struggles to hang up on the cell call that caused them to lose control and jump the median, and find a REAL reason to use that goddamned phone.

Re:SUV's?

[Lord of Caustic Soda]

I complete agree with that sentiment, however since a lot of those clueless drivers are probably driving an automatic.... but really picking up the cell phone isn't really that bad even on a manual so long you're prepared to throw the cell phone away at a moment's notice to change gear... :)

What I hate is those morons who mistake big and dumb with eing actually fast. No, a 2-tonne truck cannot beat a MR2, thank you very much!

What it is really for...

[oren]

Is to appear in the just-announced 20th James Bond movie. It sets a new standard for "Bondishness" that will be hard to beat.

In fact it seems a bit too perfect for the job... I knew there's a Holywood job description of "find the next James Bond wild transport" - after all, someone there has found the para-ski for the world is not enough. But given how well this beast fits the bill, it seems they've upgraded the job description to "go build us one" and added a few 1M$ to the budget. That's one really nice job (if you can get it). And it seems the money was well spent too.

So expect it to be "coming soon to a theater near you" - not in the parking lot, that is. Speaking of which, I wouldn't suggest parking anywhere near this beast, radar or no radar :-)

Re:What it is really for...

[FortKnox]

In fact it seems a bit too perfect for the job... I knew there's a Holywood job description of "find the next James Bond wild transport" - after all, someone there has found the para-ski [paraski.com] for the world is not enough [klast.net]. But given how well this beast fits the bill, it seems they've upgraded the job description to "go build us one" and added a few 1M$ to the budget. That's one really nice job (if you can get it). And it seems the money was well spent too.

Actually, the next James Bond car is the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish. For more info, check my journal.

Re:Very few people need cars

[skotte]

i want to agree, but i'm not sure if i can. china tends to have more people working close to where they live, i believe. i commute an hour to work at 60 MPH. this would take a day or two on bike.

america is just obsessed with going great distances to do pedantic things, like go shopping. this is somwhere between cause an effect as to the death of the corner drugstore. there's a tremendous essay here, there really is.

fFor now we'll just say: people will buy this thing, not because they need a monser truck to get to work, but because they want a cool toy. i predict these will sell very well in rural areas where people have lots of room to roll around the "backyard", and in the academic and celebrity circles of people who use machine-guns to go hunting - because they can.

this thing represents at once everything that makes america great, and everything that makes america a fFoul shithole.

Re:How long before this becomes the new rage

[skotte]

actualy you know, i was thinking it would be popular among the errant succesful w4r3z d00dz. all that computing power .. and it's got the ultimate in bandwidth: it physically comes directly to you!

Didn't I see this in a movie?

[Xawen]

You know they should put one of these in a movie. Then they could go to some island and get eaten by Dinosaurs.

Seems like a lot of really cool ideas from movies are being taken on as projects and being made into reality. This is making for some really fun new toys that we've always wished we could have. C'mon Hollywood, keep 'em coming!

Johnny Rotten walks into a club and yells:

[d314]

You are all sheep!

thank you.

Cool...

[gadders]

But where are the machine gun mounts, CS Gas Launcher etc etc?

But look what it doesn't have!

[Bombcar]

All these computers, and no MP3 player!

Creature Comforts

* 5.1. Self leveling leather upholstered air suspension seats with five way adjustments, lumbar air bags, heat, and on/off road modes)
* 5.2. Inertia reel seatbelts with off-road lock
* 5.3. Refrigerator/food warmer/coffee maker
* 5.4. Heated and cooled drink holders.
* 12 disc CD changer (connected to entertainment AM/FM/CD player)
* 5.6. Retractable (air powered) entry steps (one on each side), provide access step for front and rear doors.

from this page

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[haedesch]

>For some people, mothers included, they are the only vehicle that makes sense.
^^^
Mod parent up to "funny" plz

Reading is difficult isn't it?

[Diabolical]

Why is it people are making comments about this thing making VERY clear that they did not read the site's FAQ or even visited the site?

The vehicle is not for sale, another one could be build if you have enough money. But i bet that there won't be alot of these things sold.. if people just look at the site they would have found out that this truck, bike, UAV, powerboat etc, was entirely build for EXPEDITIONS ! It isn't meant to be used as a recreational vehicle.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[boltar]

NOt very practical for expeditions really. The last thing you want on an serious expedition is
a large petrol engine, a diesel is a must. Why?
A) It is more fuel efficient
B) They are more reliable
C) They have about 50% more torque for the same engine capacity

Also this vehicle doesn't appear to have a manual gearbox option. So basically its for posers.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[Diabolical]

I didn't say it was practical... however.. when i read the specs at: http://www.maximog.com/specs.html#TOP i really see alot of things of which a poser probably would know nothing about.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[CaseyB]

if people just look at the site they would have found out that this truck, bike, UAV, powerboat etc, was entirely build for EXPEDITIONS!

I sure hope not. I think it has to be just a showcase for all sorts of new technology. Because something that complex would be USELESS for truly rugged work. Can you imagine adding the job of maintaining dozens of computers on top of everything else while on a trek?

Why on earth would you want an ultra high-performance jet boat that you'd never have a prayer of repairing in the field? Why a huge BMW cruiser bike when a simple dirt bike or four-wheeler would be more flexible and have half as many parts to carry replacements for?

Heavy duty equipment for remote expeditions has to be VERY easy to maintain in the field. The last thing you'd ever want is a bunch of extra feature-crap that costs you the whole trip when it starts to fail.

I wish they'd make it more clear that it's just a concept vehicle, because as an actual work platform it's pointless.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[CaseyB]

I didn't even consider that it wasn't diesel! Crazy.

I'd add D) They're much more useful when you're driving through deep water. Electrically ignited gas engines have to be very carefully sealed. Diesel engines only need to get air from somewhere. (Hence the "snorkel" on military trucks.)

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[UberLame]

I also didn't consider that it wouldn't be diesel. However, I'd also add:

E) Because diesel is easy to get almost anywhere, and if diesel isn't available, you can almost substitute dirt.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[UberLame]

I got the impression that the designer intends to actually use it as a work platform for himself. And that wasn't a large BMW cruiser bike. It was an over gadgeted "adventure-tourer". It isn't as heavy as a lot of BMW bikes, but still Motorcycle.com had this to say:

The R1150GS bike is not a dirt bike, yet, within reason, there's no fire or access road that cannot be competently negotiated. A few of the guys at BMW's press fleet center even went so far as to take a few GS's down to through Baja California to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, primarily on dirt roads that can only be negotiated successfully with a Global Positioning System, the sun and a huge heaping of luck. Most of the miles were on super-soft and silty roads and the GS's made it through with less effort than initially expected. One of the riders even made the trip two-up with his wife on the back.

I see that BMW bike uses a drive shaft rather than the more usual drive chain. Talk about a bike that is going to be difficult to get parts for and repair.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[markmoss]

Read the site's FAQ??? I started downloading the main page in another window before I started reading comments -- 20 or 30 comments later, still waiting on that download.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[swillden]

Electrically ignited gas engines have to be very carefully sealed. Diesel engines only need to get air from somewhere. (Hence the "snorkel" on military trucks.)

Take a look at the specs. This thing is very carefully sealed *and* has a snorkel.

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[CaseyB]

This thing is very carefully sealed *and* has a snorkel.

Great. Now you have to worry about maintaining and replacing dozens of gaskets and seals, on top of all the other high-tech gadgets. Why not just go with the simplest solution?

Re:Reading is difficult isn't it?

[ksheff]

Add another one: will run w/o electrical system. I was on a date and on the drive home, the alternator in the car went out. However, since it was a diesel, I could still drive it. It was about a 30 mile trip, but luckily there was a full moon out that night and no one else was on the road.

Simpsons Canyonero

[Bartmoss]

Does this remind anybody else of the Canyonero from The Simpsons? This thing seems even more overdone than the cartoon satire.

Re:Simpsons Canyonero

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you name the truck with four-wheel drive,
Smells like a steak and seats thirty-five!

Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!

Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down,
it's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown!

Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
(Krusty)Hey hey!

The federal highway commision has ruled the Canyonero
unsafe for highway or city driving.

Canyonerooo!

Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
sixty-five tons of American pride!

Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!

Top o' the line in utility sports,
unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!

Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!

She blinds everybody with her super-high beams,
she's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin', drivin' machine!

Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
Yah!

Yah, Canyonero!
Yah!

Whoa, Canyonero!
Whoa!

Why?

[Anne Thwacks]

What could anyone possibly need with a vehicle like this anyway?

Cos his dick is too small!

my god

[f00zbll]

Even though it's not for sale and the cost of building another one is outrageously expensive. It's a bit over kill. With all those toys I wouldn't want to drive it on the street. What if you got into an accident? The cost of maintaining that beast is probably more than most people make in a year.

Would you really want a SUV like that? You'd also need some good security to make sure some one doesn't take it for a joy ride, or worse strip it for parts.

Not that I'm not drooling over all the advanced features and possibilities, like pulling a monster truck move during really bad traffic. I just don't see the benefits out weighing the costs.

Re:Ultimate? I'm thinking more along these lines..

[Will_TA]

What is 25 tons, has tank tracks, armor plating and a vicious streak a mile wide? the ultimate SUV of course!

Off road SUV use (it might scratch the paint)

[SomethingOrOther]

i have a friend of a friend who "claims" to have seen one in an off-road situation.

You must be joking right?
The average SUV driver would be so scared of scratching the metallic paint on there all terain vercle, they will never dare take it off road!

Extra feature

[Anonymous Coward]

One extra feature not noted on the website is the row of full jerrycans in the bumper which help incinerate the evidence ( should you accidentally smash into a sub-compact at the mall ):

http://www.maximog.com/bumper.html

MogCam

[Jade E. 2]

Well, the website survived just fine, but the 'MogCam' is down. Guess 'slashdotted' wasn't one of the 'extreme conditions' the vehicle was designed for :)

Re:The word is googol

[Beowulf_Boy]

No, a google is a one followed by a hundred zeros

Use?

[Lally Singh]

So, other than hunting & killing aliens on mars, or surviving a post-apoctalyptic wasteland version of Earth, what can I use this thing for, exactly?

Re:Use?

[Legion303]

You (not *you* personally, I'm not one to judge) could use it to compensate for a small penis. At least I assume that's why people buy these gas-guzzling atrocities.

-Legion

Engine from sportscar

[Hougaard]

Funny, it uses the LS-1 360HP engine, the same as the GM Corvette. So there should be tons of stuff to "overclock" to more HP's :)

Re:Engine from sportscar

[karnal]

Of course, I would think that they'd change out the cam etc. for more torque, rather than horsepower. Getting the thing moving would be first on my priority list.

Re:Engine from sportscar

[Black Rabbit]

If they had any sense at all, they would ditch the whole notion of a gas engine--any gas engine--and slap in a tried and true Diesel. It's only screwed up North America where Diesels are not common, and, in the middle of Third World Nowhere, you are far more likely to find Diesel fuel than you are the high octane go-juice needed for that 'Vette motor, and the quality of that fuel doesn't have to be such an issue either.

Don't make it a crappy GM Diesel either. If you're going to make a high end offroader like this, based on a Mercedes G-Wagen/Unimog, don't bastardize the damn thing by slapping anything but a Mercedes motor in it.

I recall a review of a US Army HumVee in an early '80's issue of Car and Driver, in vhich one of the writers commented "It would surely take the wisdom of youth to go to war in a vehicle powered by a GM Diesel".

Re:Engine from sportscar

[csb]

GM's relatively new Duramax 6600 was designed and built entirely by subsidiary Isuzu, who knows their Diesels (think NPR commercial trucks, 20 years of Diesel Trooper off-roading, &c.).

Outside of semi-exotics like a Ford F-650 SuperCrewZer (which features a most lovely Caterpillar motor), the Duramax is clearly the best CIDI truck engine available in North America today.

-cheers, CSB

Re:Engine from sportscar

[Black Rabbit]

Does the F650 have a Cat engine, or does it have a similar engine to my Navistar Powerstroke?

I don't know about some of the larger light trucks out there, i.e. heavy duty versions of the F, C and K series, but it's the Dodge pickus that have the Cummins Diesel, and it's quite the powerplant for a six!

As for the GM engine, nice to see they finally ghot somebody reliable, other than DDA to build them a decent Diesel. Could have been worse...could have been that horrific Old 350 Diesel that they tried in the early '80's, basically a modification of the 350 gas engine that they hoped would be suitable for the extra sresses of a Diesel. Of course, it didn't work.

Umm - and this is 'news'?

[Bazman]

I quote

On exhibit at the New York MoMA Feb 8 - May 6 2001

I saw this website months and months ago. Is Slashdot really 'news for nerds' or is it just 'links from people who didnt see this stuff ages ago'?

The vehicle itself seems to just be a promotional vehicle for www.unicat.net, a company that seem to make custom Unimogs. The various modules for the Maximog - plane, boat, time-machine, are as much vapourware as a 100:1 lossless compression program.

Re:Umm - and this is 'news'?

[BillTheKatt]

I'm surprised too. There wasn't anything in the article about how great Linux, the MAC, or one of Steve hand-Jobs new ideas are. What is Slashdot coming to?
Coming next week to Slashdot: Elvis spotted in Cupertino, 100's ask: "Does this for-tel a blue suede iMAC?"


Do I look like a fucking people person?

What's that really for?

[AtomicBomb]

From their FAQ, IS IT LEGAL TO DRIVE IN THE USA?

Yes, once certified and licensed it is fully legal to drive on any road that is rated for it?s weight (all major roads and highways) and height (10?6?).
The design of MaxiMog is just absurd. The company claims that it is a EXPEDITION vehicle. For a loaded weight (vehicle+trailer) of about 30,000, you can go nowhere. Do they consider a trip from say LA to SF an expedition????

It's just a regular SUV with a few extra gizmos...

[w00tboy12]

Fifty bucks says all of them roll over their first week on the road.

too cool

[Tibe]

Oh great now I need a new keyboard, this one shorted from drule. Thanks again Slashdot.

HACKED!@#$

[isa-kuruption]

My MaxiMod was hacked and defaced by some Hummer activists!

The New Zibatsu Monstrocity

[mplex]

Danny and I just had a kid, and of course we needed a bigger SUV. It's so big, last week we lost little Joey in the back and couldn't find him for an hour. Now on those trips to soccer practice, or during my trecks across the mall parking lot, I know my family is safe. Who cares if it only gets 3 miles to the gallon, I'm a mom, not a conservationist.

But for style you need this...

[michaelmalak]

To ride in style, you need a stretch limo SUV.

robots in disguise

[CodeMonky]

Wonder if it is an autobot or decepticon.

Whatever it is its ugly as sin.

Fuel is too cheap in the US

[DocSnyder]

You're only used to such low mileages. Come to Europe and experience how high fuel prices have made high-mileage cars available and lowered the average fuel consumption about 30 % within ten years.

9.5 mpg is about 25 l / 100 km. The average in Europe is about 7 l / 100 km ^= 33 mpg, in the US 12 l / 100 km ^= 20 mpg. (As a rule of thumb, l/100km = 2.375 * 100 / mpg.)

In Germany a liter of diesel costs about 0.81 €, a liter of 95 octane gas about 1.00 €. Hence fuel for a monster like this one will cost about 0.25 € per km. A good diesel car like a Audi A6 1.9 TDI (130 hp 310 Nm) which is not really small, neither slow (220 km/h), takes about 6 l / 100 km ^= 40 mpg which costs about 0.05 € per km. You could go five (!) times as far for paying the same for fuel, with the A6 driving circles around the Maximog.

Re:Fuel is too cheap in the US

[Yakko]

I got that lesson handed to me when I went to Germany in 1992. On the economy, fuel was DM1,50 per litre. Step onto a US base, and the price drops to $0.32/l. Seeing as how the exchange rate back then was about DM1,30 for $1, it was about 1/3 the cost to get yer petrol on-base than it was on the economy.

German nationals working on-base were also able to use the gas station.

Understandably, petrol was rationed over there. On the whole, we drove european cars daily. Not very many gas-guzzlers out there.

Re:Fuel is too cheap in the US

[UberLame]

Here in the US, diesel is usualy more expensive than gasoline, per gallon. However, if instead of looking at mpg, you look at miles per dollar, the two come out close.

Anyway, I drive a german car (VW Jetta), and I used to get just under 30 miles per gallon for the driving I do (mixed highway city). Then it was down to 24 or so. I'm not sure where it is now since my odometer totally broke (before it was only partially broken).

Re:Fuel is too cheap in the US

[Jaysyn]

I don't know what part of the States you are living in, but I'm living in north-east Florida & I've never seen diesel be more expensive than gasoline.

Jaysyn

Re:Fuel is too cheap in the US

[ncc74656]

I don't know what part of the States you are living in, but I'm living in north-east Florida & I've never seen diesel be more expensive than gasoline.

Here in Las Vegas, diesel has almost always been more expensive than gasoline. Neither of them are particularly cheap compared to other states, though...while Nevada has no state income tax, the gas tax here is among the highest in the country. While I suspect that a big part of the country is paying under $1.00/gallon, I filled up last night for closer to $1.10/gallon at one of the cheapest places to get gas. (I'm not complaining too much, given that prices maxed out last year around $1.80-$1.90 for the cheap stuff.)

Expeditions?

[SpinyManiac]

Gas guzzling petrol engine?
Just how far do you think it will get?

You need a real truck - a Tatra 816 8×8.

You can see similar vehicles and Unimogs in action in the Europa Truck Trial.

Yeah, it's not a SUV, but neither is the MaxiMog.

Re:The word is googol

[jargonCCNA]

And, of course, a googolplex is a googol of googols. If I did my math right back in the day, it's a one followed by ten thousand zeroes.

GDB*x10^81!

* - God Damned Big

s/prices/taxes/

[Brian Knotts]

The prices aren't higher in Europe; the taxes are much, much higher. The base price of the fuel is roughly equivalent.

Re:SUV's should be banned

[radrich449]

yes. in addition, we should ban cars:
- They also waste large amounts of gas
- If they slam into a pedistrian or a biker, they have a very high chance of killing them
- If you are not careful, you can flip one, or crush it, or cause it to explode

Personally, I think that cars should not be allowed on the road, and anyone who buys them is a doofus. Of course, bikes are dangerous to pedistrians. So they should be banned. And rollerblades. And in addition, I think that rap music is annoying, so lets just ban that too. In fact, to make the world a better place, lets just ban everything we dont like. That will solve everything.

Soccer moms?

[Pope]

I was wondering if it would replace the Hummer in all those damn rap videos...

I want

[hrieke]

the air horn for my car.
And I want it to play both "Dixi" and "La Cucaracha"

READ the FAQ (sigh)

[BLKMGK]

It's the same cabin height as the original chassis. It's not top heavy, according to the designers, because heavy things like fuel tanks, generators, batteries, etc. etc. have been mounted down low. It's also got an adjustable suspension so I would assume that high angles of attack could be compensated for.

You'll also find, when you read the FAQ, that this isn't an SUV for climbing hills and trails - it's for "exploring". It's supposed to be capable of some challenging offroad but it wasn't built for the "let's see what it can do" mentality. I also doubt it's meant to be driven very fast on the highway. It requires a trucker's license for vehicles equipped with "air brakes" so I don't think they were shooting for "sports car" handling. Hell, the tires weight as much as 400lbs depending on what set it's got loaded. This thing is a beast.

It's big, probably slow as heck, and not something I'd want to encounter in rush hour. Hell, if he hit the horn would I lose my hearing AND my window glass?!

Re:READ the FAQ (sigh)

[ergo98]

http://www.maximog.com/vehicle.html : If that isn't an unstable vehicle, then I don't know what is. I don't know specifics on its weight distribution, but seeing the rear section packed full of heavy equipment (over 2/3rds of the way up the vehicle), heavy bar assemblies built onto the top, and various top mounted equipment, all built on a vehicle that is about 1/2 as wide as it is tall (versus say the HMMV which is wider than it is tall).

I don't really see how a vehicle can NOT be super-offroad equipped and "explore" : i.e. generally when you're exploring there isn't roadways and graded terrain, and it also means that you'll encounter unknowns like sinkholes and other barriers that will try to flip you.

Re:READ the FAQ (sigh)

[christoph_s]

believe me, those little bar assemblies on top don't count - unimogs weight up to 7,5 metric tons. they are used for exploring offroad [http://www.globetrotters.ch], military [class a vehicle], as implement carrier [from snowplough to wood chipper] and agricultural all-whell tractor. If you ever saw one in action on the testing grounds in Gaggenau, Germany, you wouldn't think about stability.

Jeep

[JeepingNET]

That thing would sink so fast in mud and could never rock crawl. A Jeep could kick its ass in a real off-road conditions. Check out my photos at http://www.jeeping.net I'm not an extream off-road but i doubt that thing could go most places I go

Mogs

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

I have a friend who has an older UNi-Mog. I gotta tell ya, that thing is damn fun to go for rides in. I haven't done any off roading with him, but my first ride in the thing was in a mild hurricane. That was weird...

Needless to say I've done a fair amount of looking into these things, and have found a few things out there that may be of intrest to someone who may want to know more about these things. Sweet machines, they are.

Damnation Alley, baby!

[buckeyeguy]

In that movie, they had a multi-wheeled rig that had a bunch of comm stuff (and I think it was a two-part vehicle, like this would be with its trailer). Now there's no room for Jan-Michael Vincent to ride his motorbike out the back end, but there had to be a few concessions to reality.

A few notes on the specs:

Is any of this stuff EMP hardened?

Will a cop pull me over and ask which gizmo is the radar detector?

"Trailer: Item 27.1 - Incinerating toilet (retractable)" --- wtf??? Guess I'd wanna leave the lid down on that one.

No they won't...

[BLKMGK]

This wasn't meant to be bought by Joe Consumer. It's custom built from scratch on top of a Mercedes chassis. It costs "more than a Hummer less than a Boeing". I cannot imagine a celebrity taking the time to go get a trucker's license to drive one either.

It weighs like 20Klbs and can't be terribly "fast". What would the possible attraction be, even for folks like Arnold. This is a true expeditionary vehicle, I cannot imagine owning it myself as the maintenance alone would kill me. Water warmed fuel tanks?! Ouch this thing is built like a tank!

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[SuiteSisterMary]

I agree. Are you going off road? Yes? Then you need an SUV. Trying to transport three kids? Get a minivan. I honestly believe that SUVs should require a separate license, and hefty registration fees. And automatic liability in any accident situation.

Actually it passes CA Emissions

[BLKMGK]

Try reading the FAQ dumbass. It's a diesel though so it probably pollutes more than an LEV gas vehicle but it's not the SMOG monster you thought it was.

Re:The word is googol

[GigsVT]

A googolplex is 10^google. You couldn't write the number out even if you could write zeros as small as atoms, it would be as large as the known universe.

UAV?

[ratguy]

Seeing as how the Maximog site didn't have much info on the UAV (Unmanned Air Vehicle) I did a little digging and found on online review of what they must be using. WattAge Hawk

At least they bug off ...

[freaker_TuC]

... bad (sunday) drivers ...

At least you can get their attention to move to the right :)

12.1.7. Front and rear facing emergency warning strobes.

and

7.1. High Intensity Air horn system - two air horns producing 137dba at 15 feet in front of vehicle. Note -- Due to high sound pressure levels only for use off road when no personnel are nearby.

It's just a modified truck, not an SUV

[macheath]

The basis for this vehicle is (as the say) a Mercedes-built Unimog (see http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/ecars/unimog/defaul t.htm for details), which has been modified.
These are heavy-duty trucks (can't drive them with a normal driving licence, so no soccer moms in this one) for use by the military, rescue and emergency services and for world travellers local authorities, builders, even farmers etc. who would need an ultra-tough vehicle. At the Mercedes plant near Sindelfingen, they use Unimogs with additional retractable steel wheels to haul trains loaded with new Mercedes cars :-)
Unlike the US, Mercedes-Benz sells commercial vehicles under its own name in most of the world.
Why they would want a relatively weak GM-engine instead of the Mercedes engines I do not know. The strongest engine available in a stock Unimog is a 240 HP diesel engine.
Also, even from the FAQ it is not really clear what they want to prove. Basically it's cool, but... Just adding features to a vehicle doesn't make it better... Hm. My 0.02$

M

Re:It's just a modified truck, not an SUV

[csb]

The Unimog is touted as a a super offroader. I've read anecdotes about it conquering some pretty dire country, and rather steep slopes.

Somewhere I saw this picture of a Unimog climbing two ramps on an otherwise flat surface. The right-front and left-rear tyres are both 36" inches off the ground, while the other two wheels are on the ground, applying torque. The vehicle itself is surprisingly level..

I'm not enough of an offroad enthusiast to know what's extreme; but, that's a pretty neat trick! =-)

-cheers, CSB

OT: Corporate Language Reconstruction

[Bob Loblaw]

The author uses google in this context meaning 10^100 I believe. I am not the world's greatest speller and was shocked the other day to find out that the term is named "googol".

Is this an example of brand popularity affecting language? Or am I wrong and are there two proper spellings? The dictionary I referenced (gdict) didn't mention "google" at all.

Think "center of gravity"

[No Such Agency]

I would guess there's a _lot_ of mass in the bottom 1/3 of the height though, so the center of gravity is probably low enough to avoid tipping during "normal" off-road driving (ie. no driving laterally along steep slopes). It needs the height for capacity, but can't be too wide to be street legal (or to negotiate narrow 1-lane roads in developing areas).

Note that this thing can supposedly "climb a 45 degree slope" - just don't turn sideways while doing it or your expedition will come to a rapid, messy end.

Mercedes Jeep

[N8F8]

I used to have a Mercedes Jeep. Origionally designed as Mercedes bid for supplying UN vehicles. It looked about like this thing, except it has a convertable soft top. The body is made by Mercedes truck division and the drivetrain by the car division. It had nifty featrues like a special lever to lock the universal joints in the drivetrain so sou can rock a stuck vehicle without damaging the universals.

I owned the Jeep for two years in the Mid-East. I spent many a day two-tracking though the desert. I slammed it into rocks. I drove it through sandpits. I even jumped it quite a distance. The skidplate underthe motor was like 1/4 inch thick. The only proble I ever had with it was the throttle cable coming off after jumping it about 15 feet. I'd love to own one again.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[UberLame]

If you are going off road, a truck may be more appropriate, depending on specific needs.

Maybe SUVs should require a different license, but certainly not automatic liability.

Jurassic Park?

[bytor4232]

Doesn't this vehicle look like the vehicles in the second Jurassic Park movie the "bad" guys had?

Re:Jurassic Park?

[Like2Byte]

I was thinking of the bay in which the good guys were building their vehicles in Jurassic Park II. I like it!

Re:Jurassic Park?

[Like2Byte]

I'd take it for the CB Radio alone! When I was kid (about 16, I'm 33 now) I wanted to build a SUV and take it to South America to study fish in the Amazon basin. This thing is a dream come true!! I wanted computers, scientific equipment, all of it, installed inside with a chair running down the middle on lockable guides using a Chevy Suburban as the body. (Hey, there weren't many choices on the size of vehicle in 1985!) Comms was never really an issue with me, though -- except to transfer my data back to HQ (Wherever THAT was! LOL )

Re:Jurassic Park?

[rat7307]

I think that both the good guys & bad guys had Merc's

Gotta love those product placements

But I could Be Wrong.....

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[SuiteSisterMary]

but certainly not automatic liability.

If you're specifically driving a vehicle that's designed to resist damage, and I'm driving one that's designed to write itself off, on impact, for safety reasons, then yes, you should have automatic liability. Oh, and all vehicles should come with cell phone jammers that are on when the car is running. :-)

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[UberLame]

So, you get sick of your car someday and ram me in my SUV (hypothetically speaking, I really drive a VW) just so that you can take advantage of my automatic liability to get yourself a new car?

I also disagree about the built in cell phone jammers. Remeber, ideally a car has more than one
person in it. There is no reason that the other people in the car should be able to use cell phones. And this totally ignores the fact that one might want to use cell phones for other things in a car, like say a web cam, or automatic transmissions of ETA, logging audio to a remote server (so that you have an exact record of what the police officer said to you, or how the business client tried to threaten you). It's my car, and I will put in it what I want.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[st0rmshad0w]

I have driven 2 different vehicles thru that las 2 particularly nasty snow storms in my area, an '72 Chevy Nova (V-8, rear wheel drive automatic) and a n '86 Chevy Z-24 (V-6, front wheel drive). I have had not a single problem in heavy snow, cheerfully driving by those SUV owners still trying to uncover their vehicles, myself having moves only a shovel or two. Were you aware that most SUV aren't even 4-wheel drive? Why bother. I'm frankly sick of being able to out drive anyone, but paying higher insurance, and only ever being able to afford a junk-heap for myself. Its too easly to get a license in this country and I'm tired of you yuppie couples and your rodent children. Get off the road.

I could use one of these

[sunhou]

After all, I have been thinking of buying a home recently. I think it would do OK; the temperature where I live does stay between -70F and +130F, and there's generally less than 5 feet of water on the ground around here.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> I honestly believe that SUVs should require a separate license, and hefty registration fees.

How about $1 per gallon additional taxes on fuel to go to alternative energy research? That ought to encourage people to buy more fuel efficient cars while providing some much needed stimulus to research endeavors.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[SuiteSisterMary]

So, you get sick of your car someday and ram me in my SUV (hypothetically speaking, I really drive a VW) just so that you can take advantage of my automatic liability to get yourself a new car?

No, obviously not. That's not an accident; that's attempt to murder with a weapon. As for the cell phone problem, it's thorny. I will point out, though, that we humans managed, more or less, to survive for several hundreds of thousands of years without.

It's my car, and I will put in it what I want.

Your right to put what you want in your car ends where my right to drive on the same road as you in safety begins.

It's art, I think

[shawkin]

This was shown at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC as part of a show on the Office of the Future.

The intended use is to do a year long survey of rain forest ecosystems. The build quality is fantastic.

Yet, after looking at it for a while, I thought it looked like a command car for the Beverly Hills Army.

After more reflection I thought: too much money and not enough girlfriend. I expect one to appear in Steve Balmer's driveway.

"Necessary" SUVs

[bbqBrain]

Yeah, I definitely agree with maggard and the AC. However, I don't have a problem with people driving all SUVs to the mall, Starbucks, and back home. Specifically, the car-based ones generally offer much better fuel economy and provide less of a threat to other motorists. These include (but aren't limited to) models like the Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, and Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute. Even better than these are the Subarus...pretty much any of them. AWD, good design, and a lower center of gravity make these much safer vehicles.

As far as the wireless phone and screaming kids...well, don't associate all these attributes with SUVs. Wasting fossil fuels, obstructing view, and endangering other motorists by unnecessarily driving an SUV is a symptom of other larger problems. The most pronounced, I would guess, is a dearth of consideration for others.

My wife and I just stick with our Hondas, as well. I drive a slightly modified Civic; she drives an Odyssey minivan. And let me tell you, that minivan will stomp most SUVs in handling, acceleration, and certainly cargo room.

Re:"Necessary" SUVs

[CrayzyJ]

AWD cars generally get worse gas mileage because 4 tires are driving versus 1 or 2. At least with 4WD vehicles, the second set of tires is not in use unless it is needed. However, soccer Moms have no idea when 4WD is and is not needed. For some reason, most SUV owners think 4WD helps them stop. hahahahahaha

Re:"Necessary" SUVs

[Nos.]

Not as bad as you'd think. Most newer AWD vehicles will transfer all power to the rear wheels once a certain speed is reached. For GM, I'm pretty sure its 30Km/h (~ 25mph). While I don't have AWD, the traction control in my '99 Alero turns off at 30kmh. Which is why I've never bothered to turn it off.

Not too sure...

[CaptIronfist]

This vehicle looks pretty, but it is also higher than large with a very weak center of gravity. I wonder how this thing would behave under heavy winds.

One of the most stable and all road vehicle is renown to be the Hummer. As I recall it, this vehicle is also very large compared to its height, thus making its center of gravity very strong and providing the vehicle extreme stability in all conditions.

This one looks like a ... modern work of art. Modern arts usually degrade faster than ancient ones ;)

[insert sig here]

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[bryan1945]

A statement only an AC could make.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[bryan1945]

What the hell is it about driving and cellphones that everyone is freaking out about? I agree that most people can't drive and use a cellphone, but I also believe that most people can't pick their nose and drive, either. I get this continual bitching that I talk on my cell (with headset) while driving. Does this also mean I should stop smoking while driving? Eating? Drinking coffee? Changing radio stations? Changing CDs? God forbid if I sneeze!

Can we agree that it is not the actual activity but generally the person who is to blame?

We can read.

[Baba Abhui]

The vehicle is not for sale... if people just look at the site they would have found out that this... was entirely build for EXPEDITIONS! It isn't meant to be used as a recreational vehicle.


SUV's in general (Jeep, Range Rover) were originally meant for expeditions and military use - not recreational or personal use. But they are now a menace to drivers everywhere. So... uh, what was your point again?

By publicizing yet another outsized vehicle, they are doing their part (even if it's only a small one) to accelerate the disturbing trend of using these wasteful and dangerous "cars" as family vehicles. Even if this vehicle isn't for sale, there's little doubt that it will stimilate a few Unimog sales at least. Publicity works.

Re:We can read.

[swillden]

...the disturbing trend of using these wasteful and dangerous "cars" as family vehicles.

I know SUV-bashing is very chic these days, but allow me to point out that there are families for whom this type of vehicle makes perfect sense. Mine, for example.

Show me another vehicle that will seat seven (with seat belts for everyone and no chilren in the front seat), has four-wheel drive and high ground clearance (we spend a lot of time in the mountains) and can pull a 7000 lb. camp trailer.

As for it's use as a family car, well, unless we wanted to own three vehicles, it must be a family car. I have a Saturn for commuting, and we use the small car whenever possible, but with a large family like mine no sedan is adequate; we'd have to buy a mini-van. The cost of buying, owning and maintaining a third vehicle would far exceed the cost of the extra fuel for the SUV. Alternatively, I could commute in the mini-van, but that would consume far more fuel than my little Saturn, and I rack up a *lot* more miles commuting than we do driving in non-mountainous places as a family.

I agree that there are plenty of people whose SUVs never get off the pavement, and those people are somewhat silly, IMO, but for a large number of active families, particularly in the mountainous regions, SUVs are a perfect family car.

Come on people

[Space_Nerd]

This is seriously old news, i saw that at the NY MoMA last february, the editor who posted this should be maimed (cutting off his hands sounds about right) and then be made to suffer a horrible death.

Delay from news to slashdot=1 year??? come on.

Done 25 years ago.... Fool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone remember the movie Damnation Alley? THAT was an SUV.
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Desert/7445/thelan dm aster.htm
All you need to picture is George Peppard popping through the hatch with a cigar and a grin:
"I love when a plan comes together"!!

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[Kowgod]

Preach it! Testify!

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this also mean I should stop smoking while driving? Eating? Drinking coffee? Changing radio stations? Changing CDs?

Eating? Jeeezus H. Christ, why do so many people have such a thick skull about this? When you're driving there is one top-priority task at hand - driving. Those other things are stupid distractions. I don't really care to end up as a grease spot because some asshole like you dropped his stupid CD on the floor.

Can we agree that it is not the actual activity but generally the person who is to blame?

Uh, when the actual activity is "being preoccupied with a Big Mac when I should have been driving?" Yeah, sure the person is to blame - they were eating when they should have been paying attention to the road. We hold a person responsible for driving drunk, too, you'll notice.

How would you feel if you got on a Greyhound bus and discovered that the driver was trying to EAT while he drove? Would that give you a warm, cozy, safe feeling?

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[Computer!]

There's more like you at Changing the Climate.

Dakar envy

[metoc]

Looks like someone is envious of the Truck class in the Dakar Rally which ended yesterday. Check out Dakar 2002.

For those non-Rallye types, it spends most of the Paris-Dakar route in West Africa. Two weeks long, has car, motorcycle & truck classes, lots and lots of sand. Last year had a one week detour while they were airlifted over a country whose guerrilas threatened to kidnap the drivers. Makes the Baja look like drive to the beach.

Re:Dakar envy

[christoph_s]

by the way, in 1982, Georges Groine won Paris-Dakarin a Mercedes Unimog

Good Idea, Bad Idea

[Dop]

Good Idea: Having spare gas tanks on your ultimate SUV.

Bad Idea: Putting the spare gas tanks on top of your front bumper.

Re:Good Idea, Bad Idea

[Dop]

Nevermind... those are water tanks, sorry. Had me scared for a minute there.

We lost little Timmy in the back....

[HiredMan]

and we couldn't find him for an hour!

The Miabatsui Monstrosity... "Mine's Bigger".

;)

=tkk

Disclaimer...

[CtrlPhreak]

To only be purchased by someone with an extremly small penis.

He's a technomad

[Choob]

There are a number of interesting projects out there with a similar mindset. Technomadism implies that you design a vehicle or a mode of continual, nomadic travel that renders you capable of utilizing various kinds of technology, from amateur radio to beowulf clusters. Many technomads spend years fabricating, scheming, and developing their custom vehicles.

One famous technomad, the father of it all, Steve Roberts has developed a number of vehicles in conjunction with folks over the years. Many technomads design modes of travel that are not dependant on fossil fuels and/or make extensive use of various renewable energy tecnologies. Steve's boats use human power along with solar power.

Myself and a friend have begun a technomad projet within the past year as well. Our project uses a Dodge RAM 250 as the base. It gets about 20 miles to the gallon, but since we returned home, has gone into disuse for local driving tasks. We're hoping to do an alternative fuel conversion in the future.

-- chaos

Canyonero

[silhouette]

Am I the only one who thought of the "Canyonero" song from the Simpsons?

Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams
She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!

Brings a tear to your eye...

[rizzo242]

Did you read the specs page? It's got redundant GPS mapping with tiebreaking dead-reconing and aviation nav systems, marine radar, satellite internet, tv, phone, computer-powered everything (some running QNX), xenon headlights, worklights, joystick-adjustable search lights, front-, side-, and rear-mounted remote pan/tilt/zoom/focus-able cameras, a power-driven mast on which you can raise all kinds of communication antennas, a remote-controlled camera dome, or a chair, displays in the cabin will tell you the distance between your bumpers and the nearest solid object, it's got a coffee maker, a fridge, a bathroom in the trailer (which has a command center accessible via what appears to be a Mac with dual 17" LCD monitors), if you want to see over a hilltop or something you can launch an electric recon plane and watch realtime wireless video with a 30-mile flight range, you can set up the zero-to-sixty-in-four-seconds jet boat and go up against four-foot white water rapids with, of course, full GPS navigation and forward-looking night-vision with GPS waypoint overlay, and if you get bored with this you can take the Beamer cycle off the back and go zipping through the countryside with high-resolution GPS and a sat-phone, packet modem, etc...

It's just freaking inspiring that someone with the resources to pull this thing off is going to get to go on adventures with it all over the world, which is obviously his life-long dream which, judging by the fact that he says the whole thing costs a bit less than a Boeing 777, is probably a well- deserved vacation from all the wealth-building he's been doing up until now to be able to afford not only the lifestyle of a free-roaming expeditionist, but a free-roaming expeditionist with the ultimate custom-built geek adventure vehicle of all freaking time.

It almost brings a tear to your eye...::sniff::

Re:Brings a tear to your eye...

[Max the Merciless]

It is impressive yes (why I posted it).

But you could do the same things and go the same places with an old Land Rover, a tent, a few maps and a compass.

This vehicle was obviously done, because it can be done, sort of like climbing a mountain because it was there.

Have you seen the cockpit picture. Makes a lad drool!

BTW: my personal opinion is that this vehcile is built for filming pr0n in remote locations. The trailer is pretty darn luxurious, and with all that filming, editing and communications gear... well you could stream pr0n live from anywhere on the planet. This is perhaps the ultimate "shaggin' Wagon" hehehe ;)

Watch out for the bike thieves!

[brokenbeaker]

Did anyone notice that the motorbike comes with an "Anti-Theft alarm and transponder"? I guess that you have to be careful about bike thieves penetrating your UAV-perimeter while on expedition...

http://www.maximog.com/bike_tech.html#THEFT

In depends where you live, really.

[VikingBerserker]

If you live in snow country like I do, you at least want front-wheel drive, or preferably 4-wheel drive. And forget about electric vehicles around here - it's hard enough starting a gasoline-powered car when the cold has drained your battery. I'm trying to get by with rear-wheel, but having to weigh down the trunk with hundreds of pounds of sand puts me at a bit of a disadvantage. at least the sand can be used for traction when I skid off the road :).

Interesting blip...

[psych031337]

...about the Unimog. This vehicle, dubbed to be one of the best All-terrain vehicles in the world (with exception to the recent Humvees maybe), was one of the first Mercedes-Benz products after WWII was over. As Germanys industry was was under control of the allieds everything they built needed prior permission. As it seems the allieds took the vehicle for what it was advertised a powerful tractor/transporter for agricultural and civilian construction uses (it was perfect for building roads as the vehicles had cruise control from day one, allowing them to go with very constant 2mph).

Ironically, after the Germans were allowed to establish a military force again they ordered Unimogs and rated them as "military vehicle class A" which means that it is "able to follow a heavy combat tank through heavy terrain with medium speed under all conditions". Created for civilian use it received its well-deserved military honors. Even the US army uses some of them. (Among many many others).

You can check out the vehicle history at the link below, along with some pictures. You can also take a look at the new U400 which looks way ugly in comparison to the older models. Maybe I just like them better because I have driven one of 'em for so many miles.

Unimog History

Ironically for Mercedes-Benz, the sales are going very bad in the last years, that was part of the reason for the facelifted U400 but it is not the competition that's digging MB. Everyon who could possibly use one (military, agricultural, construction, ...) already have bought one. And it runs. It is not uncommon to see 1960s models in the streets doing their work. So why buy a new one ?

Re:Interesting blip...

[psych031337]

Found some more pics describing what the Unimog can go through...

Awesome wheelwork
It's not tipping over...
Pulling a 188,000 pound railcar (old model)

For exploring other 'similar' planets?

[wackybrit]

The MaxiMog(TM) Expedition System is a modular high mobility vehicle designed for exploring this (or similar) planets.

There are no planets 'similar' to our own in this solar system.. so aren't these guys getting a little ahead of themselves?

unless...

[simpl3x]

it's a rental :)

Just the FAQ's

[markmoss]

OK, finally got enough of the main page to see the FAQ link -- and it downloads instantly. (See how much better text works?)

WHY WAS IT BUILT?
The MaxiMog(TM) vehicle and trailer was built because it's owner plans to drive around the world to remote and hard to get to places doing both photography and scientific exploration. Contrary to what many people believe, most of our planet is still relatively unexplored. After a year of research, he determined that a custom vehicle would have to be built to meet his requirements. The MaxiMog(TM) is the first pass at that solution and is a work in progress.
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WHY A VEHICLE, TRAILER AND MOTORBIKE?
To provide the most flexibly. The hybrid system allows the vehicle or motorbike to go off exploring while the trailer remains behind as a base camp. The MaxiMog(TM) vehicle alone can be used by itself for small expeditions that don't require sleeping, kitchen or toilet facilities.
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WHY IS IT CALLED AN EXPEDITION SYSTEM?
Because the various components including the vehicle, trailer, motorbike, underwater submersible (ROV), remote surveillance aircraft (UAV), Jet Boat, and modular electronics systems are designed to be easily interchangeable, and work together as a coordinated whole.
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WHAT WAS IT BASED ON?
The MaxiMog(TM) vehicle is based upon a highly modified Mercedes Benz Unimog U90 chassis. At this point about 30% is original. The MaxiMog(TM) trailer was designed and built from scratch.
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WHAT'S ITS DRIVING RANGE?
The vehicle has a design driving cruise range of about 1200 miles without refueling. Obviously this MPG rating is affected up or down based upon speed and terrain.
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HOW MUCH DOES IT WEIGH?
The vehicle weights approximately 16,500 pounds loaded, and the trailer weighs about 14,000 pounds.
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FROM THE PICTURES, IT LOOKS TOP HEAVY.
While the vehicle has a high profile to provide adequate internal headroom (BTW - It's the same height as the original Unimog U90 chassis on which it was based.), the center of gravity is quite low due to the placement of heavy items such as the Engine, Generator, Batteries and Fuel Tanks. Additionally, the vehicle has front and rear antisway bars and an auto leveling air suspension system to assist in dynamic stability.
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DON'T THOSE NERF BARS HURT GROUND CLEARANCE?
The Nerf Bars (side steps) are shown extended in the pictures on the site. When driving, they are pneumatically retracted.
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WHY SO MUCH CHROME!?
There is actually no chrome anywhere on the Maximog(TM). Everything you see that looks like chrome (including the 4 front bumper mounted 5 gallon water tanks) is solid 316 stainless steel alloy with a natural polished finish. Beyond corrosion resistance and appearance, the polished finish minimizes adhesion of snow, ice and mud.
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DOES THE TRAILER HAVE TO BE CONNECTED TO THE MAXIMOG(TM) VEHICLE TO GET POWER AND COMMUNICATIONS?
While the trailer can be connected to the trailer for power, communications and data, it does not need to. It has it's own water cooled quiet 25KW generator which can supply power, air conditioning or heat, or hydraulic power to operate the wheel motors at low speeds (Both 4 wheel drive and steering) for campsite positioning or power assist for off road mobility.
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CAN IT STAY IN COMMUNICATION AND CONNECT TO THE INTERNET IN VERY REMOTE AREAS?
Yes. It has multiple long range communications systems for plain or secure message traffic in addition to short range VHF and UHF transceivers for short and medium range use. The principally long range (non-emergency) communications systems are Inmarsat-B/C/Mini-M, Globalstar LEO, and a HF/ALE (High Frequency/Automatic Link Establishment) transceiver for low bandwidth communications in areas where there is no satellite visibility. Asymmetrical data-only internet connectivity for wideband downloads can be accomplished via a tracking DSS satellite dish if within the satellite footprint. When wideband video Uplink capability is required an independent satellite system is carried on board the Vehicle or trailer.
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WHAT IF IT BREAKS DOWN?
The MaxiMog(TM) carries a significant compliment of spare parts and tools to effect field repairs. It is also designed so that critical systems have backups and automatic systems can be isolated and operated manually if needed. However in the event of a serious component failure such as a broken drive-line component, the approach is to take the BMW R1150GS bike and get help, or use the global communications system to get parts and tools driven or flown in.
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HOW GOOD IS IT FOR ROCK CRAWLING AND EXTREME OFF ROADING?
Simply stated, it's an expedition vehicle, not a recreational vehicle. While it is designed for severe off road conditions whenever encountered, this is a vehicle that is intended for long duration expeditions, not "seeing what it can do" by traversing technical trails created by off road enthusiasts. However, the Maximog(TM) chassis provides 20+" of suspension travel, 25" inches of ground clearance (worst case, under the differential housings), positive locking differentials, CTIS, variable ride height, adjustable shock absorber compliance, and air shifted transfer case for low range operation. This makes it quite capable in a broad variety of off road conditions.
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BUT WON'T IT GET STUCK OFF ROAD IF TOWING THE TRAILER?
The Maximog(TM) trailer is designed for the same off-road operation conditions as the Maximog(TM) vehicle. It has a ruggedized chassis, the same 25" ground clearance, and the same air suspension and adjustable shock which are coordinated in operation with the tow vehicle. Additionally, the trailer is a fully powered 4X4 using computer controlled hydraulic wheel motors so the combined MaxiMog(TM) + Trailer functions as an 8X8 with coordinated drive, suspension ride height and compliance, and CTIS operation. The front wheels are steered so the vehicle and trailer combined has the same turn radius as the vehicle alone.
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HOW DO YOU CHANGE A TIRE AND WHAT DO THEY WEIGH?
Fortunately, this size of heavy duty Michelin tire doesn't get a lot of punctures and if it's a slow leak the Central Tire Inflation System (CTIS) can often keep up with it. When you do need to change a tire, the vehicle has a tire lowering winch built into the swing away spare tire holder that easily lowers it to the ground or raises it into the storage position. Depending upon which tire size and tread pattern (highway, off-road or combination) is fitted, the weight is between 325 and 400 pounds each.
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WHY THE BIG TELESCOPIC MAST?
The mast has a variety of uses. It can elevate an electro optics package for long range observation and rangefinding (day or night). It is also used to mount communications antennas to increase point-to-point communications range. This is especially useful for flying the UAV (Unmanned Air Vehicle) at long range, and to increase the service area of portable communications devices like walkie talkies (using the onboard VHF and UHF repeaters). A chair can also be fitted to the mast to elevate a person for direct observation. The mast has a tilt-down facility which facilitates loading heavy items on top from ground level. It has a static payload capacity of 350 pounds.
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WHAT IF IT GETS STUCK?
It has 20,000lb capacity (continuous duty) front and rear hydraulic winches with 150' stainless steel cables. The winches are dual speed units and may be controlled locally from the drivers cab, or remotely via a safety interlocked radio remote control system. The vehicle also carries a variety of hydraulically powered accessory tools including an submersible chain saw, impact wrench, bolt/cable cutter, grinder, and multi-purpose push-pull jacks.
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IS IT LEGAL TO DRIVE IN THE USA?
Yes, once certified and licensed it is fully legal to drive on any road that is rated for it's weight (all major roads and highways) and height (10'6"). It meets California emissions standards and all applicable DOT/FMVSS/EPA regulations. The MaxiMog(TM) is a Truck not an SUV and requires a driver's license for a heavy (over 12,500lbs) vehicle with air brakes.
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HOW IS THE TRAILER CONSTRUCTED?
It is a composite panel structure using a sandwich of fiberglass reinforced plastic, thermal insulating foam, and electrical shielding to provide lightning protection. These custom panels are fabricated with internal metal tubes and fittings to provide reinforcement where needed. Unicat in Germany is expert at this construction technique which yields an excellent strength to weight ratio and superior thermal insulation for extreme heat or cold.
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HOW DOES THE TRAILER FOLD AND UNFOLD?
The trailer uses a new system which combines a lifting roof with two interchangeable side mounted Swingout® modules (patent pending). These modules are electrically operated with a microprocessor based motion control and safety system doing the motion control coordination. It takes approximately 5 minutes to complete its fold/unfold cycle (limited to this speed for safety). When in its folded state the trailer is fully protected (all glass covered) and the overall size as the MaxiMog(TM) vehicle. When it unfolds, there is approximately double the internal volume. There are seven steps to the fold/unfold process.
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DOES IT HAVE A TV AND AM/FM?
Yes to both with DSS satellite TV capability.
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DOES IT FLY?
Not intentionally...
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WHO DESIGNED IT?
The vehicle was designed by Bran Ferren of Applied Minds Inc in collaboration with Thomas Ritter of Unicat. He can be reached at bran@AppliedMinds.net.
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WHO BUILT IT?
Thomas Ritter at his company Unicat based in Hambrücken Germany was selected as the best and most experienced manufacturer to build the vehicle he designed, and the staff at Applied Minds in Glendale California did the technology systems design and integration.
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WHAT DOES IT COST AND CAN I BUY ONE?
Well, let's just say that it costs more than a Hummer and Less than a Boeing 777 -- and you can't buy this one. However, you can have one built just like it, or to your precise specifications by the same company, Unicat. For more information please contact Thomas Ritter
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Unimog Information

[christoph_s]

Hi there,

you can find information on Unimogs at

• http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/ecars/unimog/

. Notice that this maximog is built using the old type of Unimog that won't be built after July 2002 (when production is transferred from Gaggenau to Woehr). After that, only the new line (U300 - U500) will be sold; in the US using the Freightliner and AmericanLaFrance brands.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[MindStalker]

Just the act of owning an SUV you are being disrespectful to your fellow man though.
1. Its next to impossible to see around the average SUV, creating problems when someone is trying to maneaver around you, but you probably have never experienced this, so you wouldn't know.
2. You waist gas. Just because you have the money to pay for a lot of gas, doesn't mean we should suffer the environmental inpact of you consuming it. Agreed if you have several people in your car, the benifits of car pooling start to outweigh the problems, but you should try to rarly drive it by yourself, that is such a waist.

Re:How long before this becomes the new rage

[Nepre]

of all the soccer moms?

More likely the hockey dads.

sounds like the:

[dollargonzo]

...technobus!

indeed...like many ppl who like tech: computers + vehicles, stripping a bus was fun. network all around, etc. gutted and fitted with lots of good stuff, pretty much like the this beast. the only thing that was different was the diversity *cough* of operating systems. nothing extremely new tho. how much does it go for? ;-)

QED

Just in time

[metis]

Gee, why don't we send a cartload of these vehicles to Afgahnistan. They sure need off-road SUVs, especially after we bombed the last two paved roads they had. Plus, they are much closer to the oil fields, so filling the tank won't be a problem.

I suggest only a few modifications:

• A converter to allow running on crude.
• A grenade launcher instead of the left miror (nobody gonna overtake you anyway).
• A mine protection belly shield.
• A waterproof illustrated retractable Koran instead of the "entertainment center".

Oh, and if we there are no more buyers in Afgahnistan, no problem! Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, manhole-in-the-desert-stan, plenty of places that will appreciate the next level in guerrilla transportation.

motorcycles are worse

[mr.ska]

Believe it or not, those "evil" SUVs are relatively clean compared to motorcycles. Yes, that's right. If you want to emit less pollution, a LOT less, get rid of your Honda motorcycle and get into an Explorer. Admittedly, SUVs will still output more carbon dioxide, but I'd rather have more inert gas than more pollution.

Re:motorcycles are worse

[bananapeel17]

Believe it or not, those "evil" SUVs are relatively clean compared to motorcycles. Yes, that's right. If you want to emit less pollution, a LOT less, get rid of your Honda motorcycle and get into an Explorer. Admittedly, SUVs will still output more carbon dioxide, but I'd rather have more inert gas than more pollution.

That article on motorcycles only compares the hydrocarbon emissions of a motorcycle with a Toyota Prius. It doesn't mention how much hydrocarbons a SUV spits out. I'd be interested to see how that compares to a typical motorcycle. I'd be surpised if a SUV is less polluting than a motorcycle, especially taking into account other emissions and pollution caused by the production & transportation of the extra gasoline used by the SUV.

Re:motorcycles are worse

[mr.ska]

The article compares the best case for both vehicle types... the cleanest car (Toyota Prius) with the cleanest motorcycle. A fair comparision. If you wanted to compare a 3-year-old Explorer or a 5-year-old Pathfinder to something, a fair comparision would maybe be a Harley, or maybe a Goldwing. I'll grant you that SUV's, being classified as trucks, are not as clean as cars, but I'd still wager they're cleaner than motorcycles. Two orders of magnitude is a lot to make up!

cars

[USAharrypotter]

I will just stick my average ford festiva cause the technology is cool and everything its just that it seems like the car is more powerful than you and it is driving you not you driving it.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[revoltingyouth]

good call, its not because of the soccer moms, its also the high priced lawyer guys who think they can bling bling with the big dawgs, cause you know you aint nothin unless you got an expedition on some dubz yo! people need to get a life and start buying real cars that get a reasonable gas milage and arent slow, hell my four cylinder mustang, is better than my folks isuzu, even in the snow.

Totally cool or Too much?

[DaiSai]

We are always looking for a bigger and better product to improve our lives. Which don't get me wrong, personally I believe stimulates creativity and is ultimately a good thing. But who honestly needs a MaxiMog to drive to the super market. This vehicle could probably work great for military/or field research use. But as far as general production, ehh I dunno. Looks cool though.

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[The Cat]

You forgot:

At least one of the kids will be dressed in a soccer uniform

The mother will have just-above-shoulder-length blond hair

She will emerge from the grocery store with three baskets of groceries having just charged over $800 to her platinum card and not even blinking

She works at a desk covered with picture frames and stuffed animals, has never been laid off, and has no real job responsibilities except to make copies of holiday party announcements on colored paper.

Her husband has even fewer job responsibilities, but works at a desk that cost more than the car and spends all of his time in meetings or talking to "Bob" and makes about $3/minute.

Google / Googol

[danec]

>> high speed network and a google of different communications devices. I enquired as

The word is googol not google.

What i think about maximog

[TY384]

Well if i had the money for the maximog than yes it would be cool but who knows how much it will cost. But they didnt make for everyone so they dont care. The article said that it had a mercedes undercarriage so if they used mostly mecedes parts then it is a very good vehicle because German engineering is some of the best especially when it comes to automotive.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[Jaysyn]

The thing is, there are already laws that cover this stuff. Ever heard of reckless endangerment? That's what you get is you get in a wreck while you are trying to change a cd, eat a burger, whatever. We don't need more laws when existing laws work fine.

Jaysyn

Price? Climbing?

[Benny02]

Its not a bad looking mobile but what about price? How about the climbing with the trailer is that possible?

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[gi-tux]

1) WRONG! You can see through my SUV, because I don't have tinted windows. If you are so low down to the ground that you can't see then take off the low-rider kit and put real tires on your car. And if you can't see around it, then chances are you don't need to maneuver anyway. There is nothing worse than someone riding your bumper in a little car trying to pass where they shouldn't, especially when they get so close that you can't see them very well in the rearview mirror or the side mirrors. I agree that dark tinted windows are a safety issue with SUVs and minivans especially, but I can't stop people from having them without changing the laws.

2) If gas consumption were the only issue, then we should all start riding bicycles. There would be a lot less petroleum consumption and the general health of the population would increase. My fuel consumption isn't that great. I burn maybe 10 gallons each week, most with multiple people in the vehicle. The gas mileage on my SUV is as good as that on my car, and I am sorry but I couldn't save enough money trading them in to pay for the new cars in their lifetime as mine are paid off! Even if I could get gas for free in a new car, I could only afford about $100 per month on two new cars for the gas savings. Sorry there aren't any $50/week cars out there that I would drive.

3) that is such a waist. How do you know? But I will agree that my waist is becoming a problem. However that has nothing to do with my SUV. It has to do with the fact that I am spending my lunch break posting to /. rather than outside walking like I should be doing. But then the bicycle might take care of that. However I would take about 3 hours round trip on a bike getting back and forth to work rather than 20 minutes. And then my kids wouldn't have as much training time and would be under less control (now they are at least enclosed in my SUV). Also, I might have to use my cell phone more on the bike to get things done, and that would probably cause problems. And last but not least, you would complain that I had 18 speeds and that you only had 10 speeds or that I drank too much water at the water station or that I breathed too much air.

Art?

[anothy]

my favorite bit on this site is right on the front page, down towards the bottom: it's on display at a modern art museum! that's just wonderful. i like.
well, that and the intent of exploring this "or similar" planets...

Well if you want to get your own...

[Aaton]

There are afew companies out there that will sell you used Swiss Army Trucks. You can get your own Unimog or Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer.

Here are two links to start you own search for such a beast.

• Cold War Remarketing, Inc.
• EuroTruck Importers
• Web Ring for Pinzgauer Trunks

I know most of you think I'm nuts but I just would love to own this one.

Editing, People, Editing!

[virg_mattes]

> A googolplex is 10^google.

What started this thread? A googolplex is 10^googol, not google.

Geez.

Virg

Re:Editing, People, Editing!

[GigsVT]

ARGH :)

It so hard to type Googol, it's like trying to type the word "passed" after working in UNIX for a while.

If the motorcycle is an indicator...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't really comment on the 'mog, although to me it really seems like it doesn't do much more than a tricked-out Ford F-350 4x4, as used for pipeline inspections, etc. I also think that petroleum exploration uses custom vehicles like the 'mog, but without the supposed cachet of the Mercedes-Benz base.

However...I can comment on the motorcycle accessory..."overpriced poser" comes to mind. The R1150GS is a good moto, but it's designed as an "adventure tourer" for old fogies like myself. NOT what you would take for any serious off-road expeditions. (I have a Triumph Tiger, similar in intent, and wouldn't use it in this context either. And there's a host of poser bikes coming with even less capability in this area from Aprilla, Ducati, and Suzuki.)

A much better and cheaper choice would be a Kawasaki KLR650, as used by the USMC; Honda XR650, better in the dirt; possibly a Husaberg, KTM, or other dedicated dirt bike; or even the BMW 650, if they *have* to have the logo (Bring Money, Wilhelm). One of the characteristics of a dirt bike is that you have to be able to pick it up when, not if you drop it...you really need a winch for this with the adventure tourers!

If the rest of the design decisions were made like this, it really will be used for expeditions to Starbucks.

As for the CPUs, my Tiger has a Motorola 68000-based Sagem engine control system, while the F-350 gets by with an 8096 (or used to, anyway). Don't know the CPU in the BMW R1150GS EFI system. We aren't dead if they go, the EFI has a limp-home fallback mode, but it is a risk, and several high-profile motorcycle adventurers have selected/stuck with the older BMW R80GS or pre-99 Tiger because it's simpler and doesn't risk electronic failure in the Cordillera Del Condor, for example.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[tzanger]

Get a minivan. I honestly believe that SUVs should require a separate license, and hefty registration fees. And automatic liability in any accident situation.

I'll take my Jeep, thanks. We have both, a Pontiac Transport and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I drive the Jeep because I often drag around equipment that won't fit in a trunk and don't require the extreme size of the minivan with the seats out, and I also do a lot of northern Ontario driving in winter. And the odd time I have to do so with a couple other people. My wife transports 3 kids around and flips a couple seats up for groceries and stuff.

From your next post:

If you're specifically driving a vehicle that's designed to resist damage, and I'm driving one that's designed to write itself off, on impact, for safety reasons, then yes, you should have automatic liability. Oh, and all vehicles should come with cell phone jammers that are on when the car is running. :-)

So if you jump out in front of me at an intersection when I have the right of way, it's my fault just because I paid more for a vehicle that won't crumble? Blow me. Double that for the phone jammer comment. If you can't handle driving in decent weather with light traffic and talk on a cell phone, that is your problem, not mine. I happen to be able to control my vehicle when I'm distracted, and I also have the presence of mind to ignore/drop the cellphone when things happen.

Anyway (desperately trying to find the original thread), SUVs aren't just for offroad. Trucks and cars can only get you so far, and minivans definately have advantages in medium-size people movers. But SUVs are idea for people like me.

Let me help you out with that sticker.

[Erris]

SUV = Stupid Urban Vehicle.

90% of Stupid Urban Vehicle owners are office workers that will never see an unpaved road. They buy these moster machines because they have been taught to fear their neighbors. In reality, the world has them to fear as the stupid things are difficult to handle and much less stable than the simple 4 door sedan that would fill all of their automotive needs.

The flicker in my eye is a reflection of burning karma.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[tzanger]

Its next to impossible to see around the average SUV, creating problems when someone is trying to maneaver around you, but you probably have never experienced this, so you wouldn't know.

So how do you deal with the 18-wheelers on the highways? Good lord, if you can't see, you don't manouvre. And you can almost always peek around any vehicle to see past it. Failing that, BACK OFF! Your visibility increases when you don't have your fiat's hood under my Jeep's ass-end.

Astronomers use Unimogs, too!

[Swami]

During the snowy winter months, Unimogs are just about the only way for researchers and astronomers to access the Meyer-Womble Observatory atop Mount Evans, Colorado. 14,148 feet above sea level.

An image of the Halloween '99 DU Astronomy Unimog expedition is here.

Ford Van

[xtype]

Full size Ford vans can be ordered in four wheel drive format.
My parents have one, just a little higher than the normal econoline(sp?), extremely practical for a family living in/near the mountains, frequently taking the children and their friends on ski trips. A lot more storage space and leg/head room than any SUV.
And excursions are just plain scary. If you need that much room, get a van.

Re:Ford Van

[swillden]

Vans have an even higher center of gravity than SUVs, which is very bad for steeply-sloped roads, and are heavier, which reduces their towing capacity. If SUVs weren't available, though, I agree that a full-size van, with a big gas or diesel V8 or V10 (do those exist for vans?), 4WD and a towing package would be my vehicle of choice.

I looked at the Excursion, but besides the fact that I couldn't afford one, I didn't think it would fit in my garage.

RAV4

[nusuth]

I don't agree, RAV4 (especially pre 2001 models) is a SUV done right.

Re:RAV4

[Samrobb]

Yah, I agree that they're done right - ours is a '98. The altest models look silly. Still - if you lowered it a bit and turned the enclosed cargo area in to a trunk, it would pretty much be a car. With most SUVs, even if you made those changes, you'd still have something that looks like a luxury whale boat on wheels.

Re:RAV4

[Black Rabbit]

The RAV-4 _is_ a car, nothing more nothing less. It's based on the same platform as one of their road cars, I forget if it's the Camry or the Corolla. All they did was slap a rear drive on the transaxle, change the body for something more "trucklike", and put larger rubber on it! All this piece of crap is is the old 1983 Tercel 4wd Wagon revisited.

My F250 4x4 Diesel has done 30 miles per gallon, typically 25. (That's a proper gallon, not that downsized one you Americans seem to favour.) Can the RAV4 say that? A lot of cars can't!

I propose

[ksheff]

That we stop referring to these vehicles as SUVs. Only a small minority of the owners actually use then for off road sporting type functions or use them to haul lots of equipment that would classify them as being a utility vehicle. Face it, 80-90% of them are used for commuting, running down to the store to pick up a bag of groceries and the ever popular picking up kids at school. How about these choices:

• MSW - Macho Station Wagon. It's or the guys that wouldn't be caught dead in a station wagon or minivan, but would drive an MSW to do the same functions.
• SSV - Status Symbol Vehicle. Face it. No one is going to take their Caddilac, Mercedes, or Lincoln off road. They cost too much. It's to show the neighbors that you have lots of money. Which leads to...
• MMTBV - More Money Than Brains Vehicle. Given that they cost $250/month more than an equivilant luxury car in operating costs, the smart rich dude, while still wanting to show off, knows better than to burn money on such expenses.

If anyone can think of any more, I'd like to hear them....Looks like I need to change my sig again. Damn

Re:I propose

[markmoss]

Do keep in mind that the custom-built MaxiMog is not one of those SUV's. If you just want to have the biggest, meanest vehicle on the freeway, get a semi-truck; it's more "macho", costs less, is no harder to drive, and will go faster unloaded. At 13,500 pounds empty weight and a 5.7 liter engine (far from the largest available), the MaxiMog isn't going to be zipping past you on the freeway, but it is geared to slog along on dirt tracks while carrying 3,000 pounds of gear and fuel, with a trailer bringing the total loaded weight to 30,500 pounds. This is off-roading in style --and considerable excess!

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[MindStalker]

Like I said, you havn't experienced it therefor have no idea of the vision problem with SUVs even when the windows are clear, its still a problem. Minivans and large trucks are the same, but personally I see no reason to ever drive a large vehicle unless you have to.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[5KVGhost]

Why a minivan? What makes a minivan inherently more appropriate than an SUV? They get about the same mileage, but don't have the higher ground clearance you may need if you live in a rural or snowy part of the country.

"I honestly believe that SUVs should require a separate license, and hefty registration fees. And automatic liability in any accident situation."

That's just silly. "SUV" is a marketing term, covering such a broad swath of vehicle designs as to be meaningless to everyone except the people who sell the things and the people who whine about them. If minivans were invented today, they'd probably be sold as SUV's too. And should pickup trucks also be licensed, etc? Why not? Especially as many SUV designs are essentially re-skinned trucks? What about SUV's based on cars and minivans?

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[maggard]

Wow - you are so off base it's actually impressive.

I live in Montreal, where we likely see more snow then any place you've ever lived.

I spend about 1/3 of my time living in Wellesley Massachusetts, among the wealthiest locales in the US so I'm well familier with the money & SUV demographic.

The accident rate for SUVs in general is quite high, and adjusted for miles soccer moms are quite dangerous.

I welcome you to visit the local upscale grocery stores and witness the regular accidents in the demographic. Or the movie megaplax I was at last night when three yuppie & spawn laden SUVs managed to collide in the middle of the lot after none would give way while trying to leave after seeing Harry Potter.

Also I'm 35 years old, not quite the brash young man you seem to assume I am.

I'm not at all anti-woman, indeed I'm a rather strong feminist. However in presenting a character study, particularly of the stereotype I used the various feminine items are useful. I wasn't aware that latte was a womans-thing though.

Oh, by the way, looking out of the home office window in Wellesley of the 4 mansions in sight three have SUVs. The fourth has a high end Jag and a large Cadillac. None go farther the the local elementary schools though the neighbor directly across the street did take their loaded minivan (likely parked in the sunken double garage and not hence visible) to Vermont last summer.

So, to make my own study of you you're a whiny humorless boor who likes to make himself feel better about your sad little life by attacking others on specious evidence. you likely alienate everyone around by attempting to psychoanylyze them based on criteria developed in your freshman psych class. You get off on calling other's non-PC and are probably regularly embarassed when they turn out to be folks far more wise and tolerant of your gaffes then you are of their purported failings.

In short - crawl away.

I see no need to follow up with you. Click.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[MindStalker]

Ok, I probably should have qualified that statement. The places I have problems with SUVs visually.
1. When I get in the mid turn lane to turn left and some SUV comming in the other direction get in their turn lane way too close to me, and I can't see, and don't know if any cars are comming, but they just sit there, forever, sometimes expecting me to go first.
2. Parking, not to mention that fact that most SUV drivers don't know how to park them. Often it becomes very difficult to back out of the spot if there is are SUVs next to me, and I can't see what cars are comming around the SUV when I'm trying to back out of the spot.
I know there are a few other examples, but those 2 are the most frequent, and most 18-wheelers atleast know how to drive. I really don't have a problem with large vehicals for commerical purposes, but when people purchase large vehicles for no good reason, and don't know how to control them, and don't understand when people can't see around them. It really urks me.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[DrCode]

You're right about 'SUV' being a marketing term. But generally, an SUV is built like a truck, while a minivan is built like a car. So even though they may be the same size, the SUV is generally a lot heavier, has a much bigger engine, and gets worse gas mileage.

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[hey!]

My in-laws have a Mercedes ML320 SUV they bought used for towing a small boat trailer. As much as I detest SUVs, it is one of the few SUVs I've driven that have decent handling. I find most SUVs frightening to drive -- their suspensions are tuned to give absolutely no road feedback to the driver. Personally, I like to know if the car I'm driving is about to lose traction or roll over. The M class is comfortable, and handles very well for a truck. It isn't stratospheically expensive either, it's low end pricing just above the upper end of the Ford Explorer's range, for a much nicer car.

It is, I agree, a silly vehicle. I can't imagine taking it off road, and any truck you can't carry a sheet of plywood in is, in my view, and abomination. However, I don't think it is an absurdly overpriced abomination like most of its SUV brethren.

Cool!

[cr0sh]

What do the new models run (price range)? Is it one of those "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" deals? What is the used market like?

I was under the impression that the unimogs weren't in production anymore, and it was one of those "WWII relic" items, requiring not a lot of money to get one, but a lot to get one back into running condition (ie, parts not made anymore, need to get custom parts crafted, etc). Thanks for enlightening me.

I would love to own one of these trucks, but my budget isn't huge - however, it looks like this dealer (Unimog USA) is near me (relatively) in Goodyear, AZ - so I might have to check them out!

AWD, TCS, and gas mileage

[bbqBrain]

Yeah, our Odyssey has traction control, too, and I know it disengages above 25 mph or so. Of course, that's a completely different system than AWD. I would also argue that, when paired with a decent set of tires (stock tires are typically crap), traction control is entirely adequate for winter driving here in St. Louis. (Funny aside: For the first several months we had the van, my wife thought that she needed to push the "TCS" button to enable traction control. [buries face in hands] )

As for worse gas mileage...well, that may be true in some cases, but I know the CR-V, for example, drives only the front wheels until it senses a loss of traction. It's still better than hauling 3 tons of steel around. :-)

Witness:
Car-based...

• Honda CR-V: 22/26 mpg, 3287 lbs.
• Toyota RAV4: 23/27 mpg, 2943 lbs.
• Ford Escape (I4, MT): 22/25 mpg, 3238 lbs.
• Ford Escape (V6): 18/23 mpg, 3458 lbs.
• Subaru Impreza wagon: 22/27 mpg, 3100 lbs.

Truck-based...

• Nissan XTerra SE: 15/18 mpg, 4229 lbs.
• GMC Envoy XLT: 15/21 mpg, 4600 lbs.
• GMC Yukon Denali: 12/15 mpg, 5609 lbs.
• Dodge Durango SLT: 13/18 mpg, 4629 lbs.
• Ford Excursion: ~12 mpg (mixed)*, 7190 lbs.

(Automatic transmission figures used unless otherwise noted)

* Apparently, the Excursion doesn't even qualify as a "light duty" vehicle, so it's exempt from EPA tests. Ford's internal testing reportedly shows the following: 12-15 for the V8, 10-13 (!) for the V10.

It's a sick, sick world we live in. Anyone purchasing a Ford Excursion for non-commercial use should be subject to a hefty "enemy of the environment" tax, as well as a severe tongue lashing.

Well...

[virg_mattes]

> it's like trying to type the word "passed" after working in UNIX for a while.

What's the passe daemon do?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Virg

Re:Well...

[nurightshu]

From the passed man page:

Passed monitors all processes to determine if their use has fallen out of current fashion. For instance, when gopher became unfashionable to use during the mid-1990's, passed informed all gopherspace maintainers that it was no longer a "cool" geeky service. Think about it -- when was the last time you did a veronica search?

Don't you know what SUV stands for?!?

[A nonymous Coward]

Stupid Urban Vehicle

If ya wanna talk about...

[talks_to_birds]

...trucks and Benzo's, here's my kinda truck

t_t_b

Google?

[plaa]

a high speed network and a google of different communications devices.

I think you mean a googol, not a google. See also Google's explanation. Please keep you're words straight. ;-)

(Oh, it's also available at MathWorld - great to have it back!)

SUV

[w00tgrl]

what does it get 3 miles to the gallon???

You know where this is heading don't you

[shking]

Behold the Kenworth Pilgrimage! http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.html

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[maggard]

Sigh. It's a slow day and I'm procrastinating.

I'm an out gay man, have been so since 17. I've been with my sweetie going on 6 years, we're quite happy thank you. I started working young and am very good at bringing strong communication, personal interaction skills and management strengths to my highly technical profession. As a result I earn a very good wage and am privileged to take off long periods of time between contracts.

In my "intermission" periods (the year or so between jobs when I'm not working 60+ hours a week) I enjoy the company of an eclectic circle of friends & family. Due to my open schedule I tend spend a lot of time with other non-traditionally employed folks including a number of artists, writers, academics and other such colorful individuals. My father is a very well known professor, my mother a semi-retired nurse and it is they who reside in Wellesley and where I visit regularly.

I travel a fair bit, both to visit friends in various cities and to attend events of interest. I'm a respected member of the leather community as well as being fairly prominent in the bear community. I do some pro bono work for a Boston gay youth organization and keep myself entertained playing support person to any number of buddies computers.

For hobbies I enjoy reading, mostly sf, history and about civil engineering. I'm a bit of a foodie and get to enjoy the many opportunities for great eating that Montreal, Boston, and other places I visit offer. I'm the one folks call when it's 2am and they want to know the best pastry place in a strange city. I also enjoy dancing, hanging out at a few of the bars in du Gai Village, attending various leather & bear events around NA. Finally I seem to be the friend most of mine like to introduce to their parents when they visit: Apparently I'm interesting yet respectable enough to be reassuring (and discreet enough not to let them know their child's peccadilloes.)

Gee, looks like your flamage was as off-base as the first one's. Hole - you crawl to - byebye.

plonk

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[Maul]

At first glance this looks worthy of a mod down,
but really, it isn't that far from the truth.

I know of many people with high paying jobs who seem to have two or three Benzes in the driveway,
(one of them an ML Class)and spend every day on
the golf course. The only real work they do is make decisions in meetings, boss those around
under them, and talk on the cell phone with business associates.

Many of them actually do make around $500,000 a year or more... roughly $3 a minute!!

Their wives pretty much haul the kids around in the
ML Class all day to sports, music lessons, etc.
They could care less about the fact that the cars
they drive are hazardous to the environment.
They charge insane amounts on their cards, since
their husbands make over $1000 in one day,
it doesn't really matter that much.

This is a fairly accurate picture of the family
of an upper level executive, believe it or not.
I know quite a few through association with
none other than my parents. My parents were
able to move into a more affluent neighborhood
after years of my dad working his tail off.
Though he built his worth from nothing to over $2 Million over the years, he is still a pauper compared to some of these people.

The thing is that I don't think it'd make me any
happier to live like my parents or their new
super wealthy neighbors. There comes a point
when you really don't _need_ more money.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[fenix down]

But I will agree that my waist is becoming a problem. However that has nothing to do with my SUV.

I'm not sure about your waist, but it's well known that the human ass, like the goldfish, has a tendency to expand to fill its environment.
And I can't remember who I stole this joke from.

Re:Very few people need cars

[ncc74656]

i want to agree, but i'm not sure if i can. china tends to have more people working close to where they live, i believe. i commute an hour to work at 60 MPH. this would take a day or two on bike.

america is just obsessed with going great distances to do pedantic things,

"Obsessed?" How about "just huge and spread out?" In most parts of the world, you can travel through entire countries in less time than it would take to get across just one state here. I'm in one of the more densely-populated cities, yet going anywhere other than the grocery store a mile downhill from me involves a trip of at least five miles. I'm on the outskirts, but it's better than living in a more central area (which I've also done...close proximity to everything is outweighed by the crime, the bums, and other nastiness that comes with most urban areas).

I agree 1000%

[MemeRot]

Just because some other morons can't control their 8 ton tractor trailer while getting a blowjob and snorting a few lines doesn't mean that I can't do it.

PBBBBTTT!

It's obviously relative. But if you're trying to drive while changing a cd and you spill your coffee on your crotch which causes you to yell and the greasy Egg McMuffin you're gobbling down splurts out and gets between your shoe and the brake pedal and you rear end me - you have clearly messed up. Nobody is 'capable' of doing this. Some people are better than others, but multi-tasking always involves some switching costs, and even a minimal delay in focusing on changing road conditions can be disastrous.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't use your cell phone. Just realize that if you have an accident while doing so, regardless of who is actually to blame, you will probably end up being blamed.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[MemeRot]

Yeah because I don't ever see anyone engaging in reckless endangerment :) Laws don't work unless they're enforced.

No, what we need are robot drivers. Then you can eat, sleep, whatever.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[ncc74656]

but certainly not automatic liability.

If you're specifically driving a vehicle that's designed to resist damage, and I'm driving one that's designed to write itself off, on impact, for safety reasons, then yes, you should have automatic liability.

Wrong. You should have a more durable vehicle. Why should the rest of us be forced to accept responsibility for your poor choice of transportation?

(For the record, I don't own an SUV...don't have any need for one and don't really want one. The pickup I just bought (a 2002 S10 extended-cab, RWD instead of 4WD because it'll never go off-road) is better for hauling stuff around and gets better mileage, while my car (a 1977 Cutlass Supreme Brougham) is better for hauling people and for fooling around under the hood. An SUV could do both of those jobs, but like a Swiss Army knife and all of its tools, it doesn't do those tasks as well something more specialized.)

Oh, and all vehicles should come with cell phone jammers that are on when the car is running.

You made that comment at least half in jest...but that penalizes the people who somehow managed to learn how to walk and chew gum at the same time. (As for me, I keep talking-while-driving to a minimum.)

Re:Very few people need cars

[Lemmy Caution]

Utter nonsense. Americans do not drive farther distances than anyone else - the vast majority of driving is the same sort of mostly-local commuting/shopping/errands sort of thing that people do all over the world. Europeans drive as much as Americans do, the go into the mountains to ski, and so forth. The reasons for the popularity of SUV's is far and away the marketting of them as status symbols, as well as the car-size inflation that occurs when everyone else has one and the consequent sense of insecurity.

a heavy machine gun with remote would be useful

[Zilya]

I can go almost anywhere with a backpack. What would hold me away from remote regions (aside Canada, Greenland and Antarctica maybe) are nasty people, not road conditions

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[SuiteSisterMary]

Wrong. You should have a more durable vehicle. Why should the rest of us be forced to accept responsibility for your poor choice of transportation?

Pretty much any consumer level car these days is built with safety crumple zones. That's like saying 'Guns should be legal; wear kevlar if it worries you.' Of course, chances are you're American, and would agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly. :-)

You made that comment at least half in jest...but that penalizes the people who somehow managed to learn how to walk and chew gum at the same time. (As for me, I keep talking-while-driving to a minimum.)

It's not a question of penalizing; it's a question of not making innocents pay for one's mistakes. Your sentance could just as easily say 'it's like outlawing alcohol in the car; that penalizes the people who somehow managed to learn how to drink and drive safely.' It's utter bullshit. You're driving; drive.

Google was a pun!

[Max the Merciless]

Yes, Google isn't the 'official' spelling, but this was a pun for all you geek types! Obviously some of your are too geeky for your own good!

besides, everyone knew what I meant.

Real-world experience with Mog

[itwerx]

My Uncle's got the Dutch military version of the Mog. We got it stuck in a swamp one time.
He just put it in the lowest gear and we left for lunch. Came back an hour and a half later and it was just crawling out the other side.
Only thing that sucks is parts. That series isn't made any more and if something breaks it has to be custom fab'd at a local machine shop.

Features not wanted..

[gilgsn]

All these features are not desirable in an expedition truck (as this is clearly not an SUV). If you don't plan on driving more than 50 miles away from an electronics store, then fine. An expedition truck should be as simple as possible, with as little electronics as possible. Any backyard mechanic from some African village should be able to fix it with a few wrenches and an oxy-acetylen torch. Forget electronic suspensions, electronic anything! If it can't be replaced on the field with scrap materials, it's not good. Look at all the current SUVs, most couldn't even cross a small ditch. This trend towards complicated systems is very regretable. Toyota stopped producing the FJ40, Land Rover dropped the Defender line, what's left? Jeep? I don't think so. Today, either you buy and older 4x4 or you are rich enough to get a Hummer or a Unimog (without all the bells and wistles). I wish there was a real affordable 4x4 available today on the U.S. market, there isn't.

Appletalk???

[zerofoo]

I found its one flaw:

"Additionally a local AppleTalk wireless datalink provides wireless connectivity to compatible portable computers used in or within about 100 feet of the crew cab."

Why appletalk?

-ted

Does it bother anyone else?

[Daunting*Alligheri]

That the name of the car almost sounds like a feminine hygeine device?

MaxiMog -- For that ultimate in freshness during that 'special' time of the month...

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[krenskeoz]

Actually in Australia it is illegal to eat or drink while driving. The simple act of moving the food or drink to your mouth and getting it in will obstruct the view of the road or divide the drivers attention. It is also illegal to use a mobile while in motion. It is strongly advised not to smoke or at least not light up while driving.

The 3 leading causes of death on the roads in Aus are Excessive speed, Alcohol abuse and Driver fatigue. (knowingly driving while fatigued is illegal, currently defined as 8 hours for professional long distance drivers) Almost all of what is left are caused by distractions with only a small number due to outright stupidity, intent or defect.

For example most accidental pedestrian hits or near instantaneous losses of control or accidental centre line crossings are caused by a distraction within the vehicle. When all accidents are looked at rather than just fatal ones the number of distraction accidents climbs dramatically. The various governments in Aus have therefore outlawed obviously distractive influences. As mobiles, eating and drinking are the highest recorded distractors at the moment they are the ones being targeted.

Re:I resent the underlying sexism of your comment.

[juzam]

im not sure, i can do most of those thinks, but on a cell phone, i cant even think right.

i did sideswipe a honda (in my SUV, duh) the other day, and my scapegoat was distraction by the roadsigns. still, i guess this shows im not that great of a driver to begin with.

OS9/OSX or OS-9/9000?

[Bogatyr]

I'd actually expect that to be OS9 as in OS9/9000. Is this Mac OS 9?

Re:The Real Exploration Vehicles vs Poseurs

[shumacher]

Actually, the MaxiMog was built in part by Unicat. Look here.

You sexist prick.

[20721]

I'm going to say this, and it's probably sexist, but screw you if you have a problem with it

Well screw you too.

it's the way I feel. I don't like women drivers. Not all women are bad drivers, but all bad drivers are women, it seems to me.

Oh yeah? What about the MAN who threw that sweet little dog Leo into traffic and snuffed his life out, just because he couldn't look in the fucking mirror when hitting the brakes? Was he one of your brilliant drivers-with-a-penis?

Re:You sexist prick.

[sandman935]

That MAN wasn't driving when he did it. :)

wimpy. Try the MOWAG

[gessel]

PIRANHA

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[The Cat]

Sheesh, typical jealousy and envy of successful, happy people. Yeah, they should be ashamed of themselves for having a good life.

Much as I probably shouldn't, I'm going to reply anyway.

I'm not jealous at all. I don't mind working hard and trying to achieve better things, but I am constrained to point out that many of these people are totally and utterly incompetent to do *anything* worthy of the rock-solid, uninterrupted salaries they are given. They almost never appear to have earned their "good life" either, because they never seem to know much of anything except how to set up the Monday donut list and call meetings.

They then presume to dictate to people who have spent *years* learning to program computers properly the precise wrong way to do something, then start figuring out ways to "downsize" your salary when you don't say "oh, yes, Mr. Expensive Desk, you're obviously right" while wondering what the #%&#*(% they need you for, since it obviously isn't for your knowledge.

I've walked past these "soccer-mom-desks" after being condescendingly told that I'm back in the job market by the guy at the expensive desk, and I'm always amazed that these people are so serene and calm in the face of layoffs. They are that way because they've BEEN THERE FOR FIFTEEN YEARS, EARNING A STEADY PAYCHECK WHICH IS WHY THEY CAN AFFORD A $40,000 CAR WHILE THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY BUILD THE THINGS THEY SELL ARE BACK LOOKING FOR WORK, AGAIN.

You might want to consider that this is why you have a miserable life.

I don't have a miserable life. I can say that life would be far more miserable if all I did all day was sit in meetings with "Bob."

I take it you are not married, with no real prospects. Well, your ugly personality is why.

No. I'm not married because I can't afford it. I can't afford it because programmers are the first out the door when managers decide it's time to "reevaluate the strategic direction of the corporate restructuring initiatives." I put in seven years learning how to be a good programmer only to find that management isn't interested in good programmers. They just want someone to agree with them when they are wrong, and nod in meetings.

Note the managers are all married (because they are never laid off) and the soccer-mom-stuffed-animal-coffee-mug
-and-picture-frame-desk people are all married, because they've likely been employed for decades and know factually they will never be laid off.

See, these people can plan for the future because they know they can rely on their jobs. Those of us who actually build things for a living can't rely on any stability at all from the average company from one day to the next, much less years down the line. I would never subject my family to the kind of instability I've seen in the past few years, ever.

Of course, nobody will see this comment, so I suppose it's academic.

Reasons I got my SUV.

[kaoshin]

Cars suck because of all of the obstacles I have to deal with on a daily basis during my one hour commute. Potholes, boxes, broken beer bottles, rusty car parts, large animal carasses, rough gravel, medians, curbs, parking blocks, ditches, lawns, toys intentionally placed or accidentally left by children, debris falling from other vehichles, natural debris including fallen trees, mud, snow, deep water... and thats just the short list.

Trucks suck because they are hard to drive through narrow lanes, getting by parked cars, parallel parking, etc. whereas a smaller SUV can cut through the mess as well as squeeze through it. Though it may not be fuel efficient I don't design the crap, and I have needs that are met by my ride, so all the jealous people who drive meep meep cars, and all the tree humpers can wipe the drool from their chin and shut up.

And regarding the nonsense about jeeplike SUV's tipping over... you can make any car flip if you are a big enough dumbass and can't drive. Jeeps and similar may have had more accidents like that because morons try to drive them like they are behind the wheel of a ferarri.

And for the record, I don't blast hip hop at a billion decibels, I blast punk rock. Well, I did until my stereo got stolen by 6 white kids.

lighting

[juventasone]

Just thought I'd add that (although not specified), the four lights across the top appear to be the Xenon version of the Hella 4000's. Best consumer vehiclar lighting I've ever seen.

It does say that they're using two pencil-beam lenses, and two medium (aka Euro or Driving) beam lenses.

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[ToeDruid]

Actually...I once read a study in uni. (unfortunately I can't provide references) that indicated that women DO have more accidents but they are usually fender benders and attributed to more women driving at lower speeds (i.e. local). The study also stated that although men have fewer accidents, they have a higher incident of fatal accidents and/or greater damage due to higher rates of speed, as it seems men do more driving on the highways than women.

Cool

[dhawley]

This is the SUV of the future!!!!!!!!! Yea right who is going to be able to afford that. That thing is more decked out than Bill Gates house.

You, sir...

[virg_mattes]

...deserve all of my funny mod points for this.

Virg

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[Reality Master 101]

Of course, nobody will see this comment, so I suppose it's academic.

I saw it. There is so much wrong in this post I feel compelled to try and set you straight. Don't know if it will work, but what the hell.

They then presume to dictate to people who have spent *years* learning to program computers properly the precise wrong way to do something,

Let me speak of managers: not yours in particular (who might really be incompetent), but managers in general. And you're not going to like it.

They are more valuable than you. That's why they're paid more.

If you're just a programmer, you are just a replaceable part. On the other hand, good managers are worth gold. You seem to think that the people who "actually build the things they sell" are the most valuable, but you're wrong. Look at how many "engineer run" companies go bankrupt. The vast majority of them do. You can have the most brilliant people in the world, but if all the work is just undirected, then nothing important gets done.

Management is FAR more important than the workers, because the workers are the most easily replaceable. Need proof? How many bad managers do you know? A lot, right? That's because they are extremely difficult to find.

Now, I don't know about your managers. But I have been down this road with prima donna engineers who think they know it all, who think the engineering priority is the only priority. You might have bad managers, but I would bet that you simply have no understanding of marketing and business decisisions, and are frustrated because you are unwilling and/or unable to see the bigger picture.

And by the way, I'm speaking as someone is, quite humbly, a brilliant programmer but who also has been very successful in management. Most engineers simply don't "get it".

No. I'm not married because I can't afford it.

"Afford it"? What are you talking about? Do poor people never get married? How is getting married an economic decision, particularly when you pool resources?

They just want someone to agree with them when they are wrong, and nod in meetings.

To be honest with you, based on just that statement, I can almost guarantee you that the problem is with your prima donna attitude, and not the managers.

I would never subject my family to the kind of instability I've seen in the past few years, ever.

Quite frankly: Grow up. No one owes you a damn thing. People live with instability every day, yes, even these mythical people you see who you think "do nothing". Based on the above statement, it sounds like you live in the Bay Area or some other engineer-saturated area. If you want better stability, then stop whining and move or change industries. But stop blaming everyone else and take control of your own life.

Finally: I guarantee that if you get a better attitude, you will find that you have much better job security.

SUV = Big-Assed RWD Station Wagon of Olden Days

[BigBlockMopar]

I believe that last year, more trucks/SUVs were sold in the US than cars. Compare that to Australia, where it's about 20:1 cars:trucks.

Here's where I think it comes from.

Americans have always loved a kind of car that exists nowhere else in the world - the full-size, full-frame rear-wheel-drive land yacht. You know, the Ford LTD and the Chevy Caprice Classics.

And, being that I'm 6'3", I don't fit very comfortably into anything smaller, so I can understand the special appeal of these cars.

Unfortunately, instead of letting the free market decide what size Americans want their cars, Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) laws were imposed on the automakers, and the land yachts were discontinued.

Interestingly enough, as the land yachts were phased out, sales of SUVs increased. And I don't mean the silly little Japanese tinfoil SUVs like Sidekicks, CR-Vs and Toyota Rectal Assault Vehicles; I mean the real ones - Grand Cherokee, Ford Exploder, and the granddaddy of 'em all, the Suburban - so named because it's as big as a Wal*Mart parking lot.

Since trucks are exempt from CAFE laws, you can give the buying public what they want very easily: stick a station wagon body onto a pickup truck frame, sell it on image, and the Crown Victorias and Caprice Estate wagons of yesteryear really haven't gone anywhere... though they may be a little taller (less aerodynamic) and have more weight and drag from carrying around a transfer case and front differential...

If things had been left alone, the millions of barrels of oil being wasted to the poorer aerodynamics and the greater weight of an SUV would still be awaiting their turn at the refinery. Accountants wouldn't be feeling foolishly invulnerable as they turn on the four wheel drive because of three inches of snow on the ground.

CAFE is now or soon to be applied to trucks. It'll be interesting to see how the free market works its way around this next round of government interference, how it will backfire.

Don't laugh, either. If the tree-hugging energy zealots knew how much energy your Athlon "wasted", they'd be trying to ban that, too.

Re:SUV = Big-Assed RWD Station Wagon of Olden Days

[jo42]

> Since trucks are exempt from CAFE laws

Unfortunately, people are not required to have a truck license for SUVs and minivans...

Re:SUV = Big-Assed RWD Station Wagon of Olden Days

[BigBlockMopar]

Unfortunately, people are not required to have a truck license for SUVs and minivans...

No. But I don't believe the rise of minivans and SUVs is coincidental to the fall of the full-size land yacht American station wagon.

I'm sure this is gonna cost me karma, but I don't care: if the environmental lobby hadn't pushed to improve automotive gas mileage, the SUV would have remained the niche vehicle it was in the late 1970s. *Billions* of barrels of oil would have been saved if the Caprice Estate Wagon was still in production.

Think of how much oil is wasted to the aerodynamic drag of taller SUVs and minivans, to the inefficient tires and heavy 4x4 drivetrain which were used as marketing devices to get Joe Accountant to trade in the family wagon on a Blazer.

And yet, the environmentalists want to impose CAFE on trucks. This will mean the death of the domestic tough-as-nails pickup truck, and will result it pickup trucks based on such lightweight and flimsy platforms as the Honda CR-V, the Toyota RAV-4, and domestic equivalents we haven't seen yet.

Naturally, any farmer who has to move three quarters of a ton of sheep manure to the neighbor's fields isn't going to try to do it with a unibody vehicle powered by a transverse mounted four-cylinder engine. He's gonna fire up his old V8-powered rear-wheel-drive full-frame Chevrolet Cheyenne, and move the sheep shit.

If CAFE causes these vehicles to suddenly become unavailable on the new market, the intent of CAFE will be utterly thwarted as used pickup trucks depreciate even more slowly than they currently do, and those people who need a real truck will work very hard to keep their aging vehicles on the road - despite old technology like carburetors, transmissions without overdrive, rudimentary spark timing systems - not to mention the effects of age and wear on these systems.

CAFE will backfire again. Check back with me in 20 years. I'm quite convinced I'll still have my 1976 Dodge Ram: They don't make 'em like they used to, and that will be even more apparent in the years to come.

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[The Cat]

They are more valuable than you. That's why they're paid more.

If you're just a programmer, you are just a replaceable part.

The standpoint of thousands of managers who can't seem to understand why their projects never ship, even though the Gantt chart says today is the due date.

There are some programmers who are *not* replaceable parts. Believe it or not, there are actually programmers who know what they are doing, and don't need to be told in excruciating detail how to do something. If managers are there to describe the goal, that's fine, but they fail by then drifting into insisting that a particular technical approach be taken, even if they are incompetent to make such a recommendation.

This happens far too often, and it is one of the primary reasons IT projects, by and large, fail.

who think the engineering priority is the only priority.

I said nothing about priorities. I said that there are certain areas of expertise. Engineers are qualified in areas that managers are not. Managers disagree, believing that being a manager somehow qualifies them to make technical judgements, and they are wrong. I can ask any 10 managers a series of technical questions that they will not be able to answer accurately.

You might have bad managers, but I would bet that you simply have no understanding of marketing and business decisisions, and are frustrated because you are unwilling and/or unable to see the bigger picture.


I see the bigger picture. What I see are managers who will not simply explain what they want built. I have not once, EVER, been told "this is what we want built" and been allowed to go build it. Myself, and numerous others who are far more qualified than I, have always been forced to justify decisions we were HIRED TO MAKE to managers who don't understand a word we are saying. This process often takes weeks and sometimes months, delays the project unnecessarily, and usually causes it to fail, followed by layoffs of all the engineers while the manager moves on to another project, picking up a bonus check along the way.

Sorry, I don't buy the "management is more important" argument. Perhaps engineers would be "team players" more often if managers weren't quite so concerned with their own importance.

How is getting married an economic decision...?

You're kidding, right?

Kids, house, cars, insurance, taxes, investments, weddings, honeymoons, rings, receptions... I could continue for several paragraphs. Getting married is by far the most profound economic decision a person ever makes.

And given the state of business these days, where companies casually fire people whenever they feel like it, while making the hiring process into the grandest production since Cecil B. DeMille, where is the wisdom in starting a family? How can someone sign a 30-year mortgage knowing their current project is only going to last three months? Does that make sense? It doesn't to me.

Quite frankly: Grow up. No one owes you a damn thing.


You know what? Maybe they do. Maybe there should be just a little consideration above and beyond the heavily-taxed paycheck. If these companies REALLY want "permanent employees" then maybe they should act like it. But they don't. They'll fire anyone they feel like firing for no reason at all anytime they want, and they do.

Now I owe a lot, just like everyone else. I owe rent. I owe insurance. I owe for the kids braces. I owe for the car payment. But no matter how good I am at my job, no matter how many years I've put in, and no matter how qualified I am, my employer owes me nothing except this hours' salary. It would be fine if I could just walk away from my mortgage like employers can walk away from their employees, but I can't. That's the inequity.

People live with instability every day, yes, even these mythical people you see who you think "do nothing".

They aren't concerned for their jobs on a constant basis.

Based on the above statement, it sounds like you live in the Bay Area or some other engineer-saturated area. If you want better stability, then stop whining and move or change industries. But stop blaming everyone else and take control of your own life.

I don't live anywhere near the Bay Area, and I'm not whining. See, instead of facing the problem, all these engineers are just whining. The fact that companies are spending hundreds of millions to churn their staff every six months doesn't matter, right?

The best advice I can give managers (because I have managed projects before too) is to let your people do their job. Give them a goal, and then GO AWAY!!! Your job as manager is to remove obstacles, not create them. A lot of managers take great delight in obstructing their engineers, and that's why their projects never ship.

Finally: I guarantee that if you get a better attitude, you will find that you have much better job security.

Better attitude == "Team Player" In other words, agree with everyone, even when they are wrong.

How about being better qualified? How about knowing the material? How about a job history of successful projects? Why doesn't THAT accrue to "job security?"

Re:Soon to be seen in a grocery-store parking lot.

[maggard]

Boo hoo - you didn't pick a good career or make yourself invaluable. Clearly this is all the world's fault and doubtless someday we'll all wise up to your real value (not!)

1. Coders don't live in caves. You're expected to contribute to your team and the company overall. If you can't/won't do that you're not valuable.
2. Best Practices and Great Code are valuable things, also a non-abrasive personality and ability to evangelize the standards you're so proud of.
3. If you're really are such a perfect coder you'd be able to get a job at the drop of the hat, co-workers would be pimping you to headhunters and new employers left and right, even in a bad market excellence is still respected - or lack thereof disdained.
4. Management is important and not for serving you. They're hired and promoted and retained because they contribute valuable skills and are difficult to replace. If your skills were as valuable and worthwhile you'd also be hired and promoted and retained.
5. The world isn't fair - if it were school teachers and artists would earn more, politicians who lie wouldn't get elected and litterers would be punished. f you persist in your "I'm under appreciated & its not fair" delusion you might want to check out the local homeless shelter and meet with many other folks of the same opinion.

No, this isn't blaming the victim - it's pointing out the facts of life to a whining bozo who thinks his position is the most important in the world. Guess what: the Admin Assistants think theirs is, the mailroom folks, the accountants and the marketing weasels, all theirs too, etc. You couldn't make schedules / get packages / have paychecks issued / get the darn product sold if it weren't for those folks, not would they have product without coders. It's not all about you.

Those phone calls and meetings and networking things are productive. No they're not writing lines of code but they keep the place running. Yeah - that 10 minute call may have done more for the company then your 8 hours of keyboarding. Those folks making the calls - their work and their skills may be more important and more irreplacable to the company then yours (oh yeah, apparently they were.)

As to other life decisions: yeah, folks who don't make 90k+ a year don't do any of them. Keep telling yourself that when you sit at home alone night after night. This would have nothing to do with your own qualities or lack thereof...

Get to a therapist and get to a career counselor. You need an attitude adjustment as well as a good dose of work-reality.