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California's "Wireless-Free" Zone
pangur writes: "In Wired, there's the story about how Arthur Firstenberg changed Mendocino, CA into a 'wireless-free zone' as a safehaven for those deemed 'electrically sensitive'. His critics claim that he is driving away any chance of a significant economy."
Sensitive, luddite granola types spotted in California! Nose cut to spite face! News at 11:00!
That book of his sounds interesting. Is there an electronic version available?
Goooooooooooooo... www.yellow5.com/pokey/
There already is an area like this, It's called the Amish Country, Pennsylvania Dutch, etc. Seriously. The article describes being bothered by anything electronic, ranging from radio waves to hairdryers. May as well go back to the horse and buggy.
Don't Tread on Me
The problem with this is that alot of things other than 802.11b and cell phones give off radiation... radios, cordless phones, microwave towers. Wonder how they will get around that.
I would see where this could be someone's view of utopia - no wireless anything - but does indeed limit the economic basis of practically any MAbell or the like.
They should move to another universe, provided they aren't already living in one...
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
This damn thing never works.
Mendocino had been attracting thousands of people due to their reduced levels of EMF exposure. It now seems that these people may have been actually endangering their mental health.
-bugg
Does anyone know of any credible studies on the matter? There are plenty of rumours and beliefs on things like these, but I've never had any point to any real evidence. Not that I'm saying I don't think some people are sensitive, I just would like for something more then somebody claiming to have a headache when around cell phones.
Not surprising this is coming out of California.
Patchoulii soaked hippy chicks and dried up 1960's student revolutionaries selling seashells on the seashore. Its like carefree/cavecreek in arizona and I'm sure a thousand other places where the washed up of bygone generations coagulate like chum in a bucket.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I would certainly be the first to admit that all these waves that we've been sending out and bouncing around for about the last hundred odd years could be harmful. Hell, I'm not even sure that it would surprise me. But I know there are great benefits to wireless networking (not to mention electricity), and good luck getting entirely away from signals and waves. Go to some third world underdeveloped country if you must, cause I don't think you're going to find it here.
Also, the very important point that what if some others in Mendicino like thier radio waves. I would certainly not want to see this guy's problem inflicted on everyone else in this community.
Cheers, Joshua
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!
I must be electrically sensitive too, because every time I put a fork on the wall socket I also get a "Burning pain" and "Electric shocks".
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
That must take on hell of a large microwave, and what setting would you use? "Half-Baked"
Is a Sig really an expression of the person behind the post or just random nonsense?
It's worked for kooks for many, many years. In fact, you might say it's a "proven" solution to the problems of wireless interference with your brain waves, at least to the same extent that it's been "proven" that wireless hurts your head!
development.lombardi.com
How in the world can you become allergic to electronic devices? Electricity flows through us and binds us.
Living without lights, phones, radios, or any other modern conveniences is going to suck for Mendocino residents.
Oh, they're only getting rid of cell phones? I see now... They are Luddite Nazis.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Was this just posted so people could flame them? Cause you know damn well no one reading this would agree with it.
ender-iii
Are we now in an America where everyone is allergic to something? This is the logical end of the progression that started with "nut allergies" and "perfume allergies"; can you say psychosomatic? I knew you could.
What's next? RMS claiming that he's allergic/sensitive to Windows?
Cthulhu Barata Nikto
and how is this accomplished exactly? What credible research shows that one person is more likely to be affected by radio waves then someone else. Does this also mean that there are no TV broadcasts, no radio broadcasts, no police radios, no satellite reception. I mean... if you're going to cut one source of RF, you better cut it all, just to be on the safe side.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Some of "the town's 1,000-odd residents" are pretty odd indeed.
Best Slashdot Co
Bullshit, individuals who exhibit this type of problem are not SURVIVAL types. I say let them die like the freaks they are...or get an aluminium reflector beanie!
from the article:
"People vary in their sensitivity to EMFs, and up to 20% of the population (according to Swedish research) can become electrically sensitive."
Damn, no TVs, VCRs, video games, Microwaves, phones, powerlines, hair dryers, etc. for 20%!!!!! That's like 1/5th of the population. That would really suck. This sounds to me like a simple ploy. People like this guy are always up to something, and that is usually no good. For what it's worth, you can always find stats to prove what ever you want.
Call me skeptical, but this is PR BullSh!t.
Besides, wouldn't they be ok if they wore the static guards used for working on computer equipment?
Sent from your iPad.
The following can provoke symptoms:
Laptop computers using their mains adapters Computer monitors (VDTs, VDUs) Televisions Mobile phones Fluorescent lights Pylons, substations Electric fields due to house wiring Electrical 'noise' in trains, buses and cars Battery-operated appliances Telephones, answering machines and faxes Refrigerators, freezers, electric cookers, vacuum cleaners etc. Fire alarms and burglar alarms Underground electric cables Hearing-aid induction loops
If the "electrically sensitive" people can't be near any of those, they might as well become Amish...
-- Dr. Eldarion --
How can one make a zone wireless free? From the article it seems that they are worried about the radio emissions from radio and other devices. Just because they have that small area where no cell phone towers exist, it doesn't mean that there are no radio waves in the area. If humans could see the radio waves it would totally freak us out since there is SO much out there. Just think of how many waves are out there just for your local TV and radio stations.
Hypochondria run amok! I'd be interested in knowing what other "conditions" these people have suffered from in the past.
Although, this would explain the feeling of dread and nausea I get when cell phone caller ID displays my boss calling.
... is the aluminum-foil-covered hat to keep out the CIA mind control rays. There has never been a single piece of hard evidence for low-intensity radio waves causing the symptoms he and others describe. Considering how long radio-based devices have been in common use (just over a century) it's very hard to believe that this is real.
In fact, it sounds to me like classic mass hysteria, which (unfortunately) is a well-documented medical phenomenon. If this guy and his buddies are looking for a place to live that will satisfy their needs, may I suggest Salem, Mass.?
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I don't know about effects on one's health, but radio frequency interference can be a real problem. For example, I have a set of cordless headphones that I use so I can roam my room listening to music and not bother anyone else. However, my neighbor's cordless phone uses the same frequency (approximately 900MHz, in case you're interested.) I can tell when he's using the phone because the static interrupts my music. If I tune my headphones carefully, I can even hear his conversation.
Banning wireless technology entirely (as the article describes them doing in Mendocino) is probably not a good solution, but I think there should be regulations and standards enforced to make ensure better cooperation between wireless devices, to prevent interference.
"Electrically sensitive"? This reminds me of the people that claimed to become extraordinarily affected by the proliferation of minute toxins back in the late 80's and into the 90's (ie, the Bubble Man from Northern Exposure). At the turn of the last century, illnesses were blamed on a lack of sunlight and country air. Technology and progress were bad for one's health. While there is indeed a certain risk from pollution - from microtoxins, or from electromagnetic fields, there comes a point where some people are simply being hypochondriacs.
*Insert clever witticism here.*
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
Am I the only person who doesn't understand this? Why did he give an *email* interview if using computers is so painful to him?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
I don't have any credible data, but being in the hospital yesterday, they absolutely, positively, do not allow cell phones or other wireless devices on cardiac floors. They, supposedly, interfere with pacemakers and other devices.
Now, honestly, you guys think you can put your technology down for one town? I don't know of anyone that has something so important to do on a wireless conneciton to put a pacemaker-person's (is that a pacemakee??) life at risk..
But, then again, you have to be pretty close to that pacemaker.... shrug...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
it seems to me that the common electrical sensitivty symptoms are very similar to those of chronic use of methamphetamine. how can I tell? :-)
""This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
Isn't a mouse a MECHANICAL DEVICE - virtually 99 percent electronics free...there may be a diode or two in there..but it can't be generating an electronic signal - it's probably only getting the barest of electricity from the PS2 port to power the thing. (unless you're using one of those new Infrared mice) -
If it's burning your hand, then that means it's probably IN YOUR FRIGGEN HEAD!!!!
Sounds like someone's setting themselves up for another juicy lawsuit. Glad I don't live in California right now or I'd be paying for it.
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
why Ted Kaczynski lived in a shack in the back hills of Montana.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
could get to Afganstan I sure he would feel much better.
I know I would.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
For someone who is "Hypersensitive" wouldn't this be harmful?
"Nowadays when Firstenberg travels, he lugs along a bevy of devices to detect radio frequencies, including a meter that gauges electrical, magnetic and microwave fields."
with absolute no evidence to back this already proposterous sounding illness, I am curious to visit this town with a cell in my pocket giving everyone big hugs.... and then hitting them over the head with it.. This man is 51 years old, radiotechnology is not that new, he has been bathed in it since a pup.
Here's the solution to 'electrical sensitivity'.
Everytime I type www.slashdot.org I got shockedeh
"shocking and electrifying"
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
I am a bit of a geek with a few PCs in my room + lapto + stero equipment like many a slashdot reader has I am sure. However I find that I possitivly cannot sleep if there is anything electrical near my bed. I accidentally left a mobile phone near me the other night and couldn't sleep a wink. Probably caused by too mush slashdotting and irc. My GF is similar she cannot sleeo with her alarm clock by her bed as it gives her nightmares
Somebody needs to put straitjackets on these folks and lock them in a padded Faraday Cage.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Why doesn't this guy build himself a Faraday cage, and leave everybody else alone?
Nope, don't like it. Too simple. Too clear cut...
The revolution will be televised. Blackout restrictions apply.
What are they thinking!? Imagine what this will do for the profit margins on Hemp Jewelry and Stained Glass Mushrooms!
I know I know... moderated to -1...
I hate Grammar Nazi's
Actually, I'm pretty sure the place where the Salem Witch Trials occured is present-day Danvers, MA.
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
The guy's electrically sensitive, and yet he carries around sensors to tell him when he's in fields he's sensitive to. :) Funny, I'm thermally sensitive (anything over a couple hundred degrees causes intense burning pains), but I don't carry around a thermometer to tell me when I've stepped in the campfire.
And I have one all-important question: Have *any* of these people been tested within the confines of an experiment to see if they *really* experience these problems? Try putting them through an experiment in an environment secure & devoid of radio activity (say, a bunker somewhere with a guassian cage around it).
Such an experiment would entail:
Only with that kind of an experiment can their claims be given any sort of credence. Until then, its all quackery.
...Arthur Firstenberg deemed an insufferable pratt, and residents of Mendocino, CA, to be suffering from the same condition.
Film at 11.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
Anybody who's ever lived in Mendocino will not be surprised by this at all. Mendocino is truly a unique place, inhabited by a wide range of eclectic individuals.
It's also one of the more beautiful places I've ever been.
Alert! The country's major loonie collection centers on Mendocino. Seriously, if this guy wasn't just a flaming asshole, he'd move to Amish country or one of many foreign nations where this isn't an issue.
The Gardener
--
People move to a small town to avoid EMP's, cause it makes'em sick...
People move to a mansion in LA to commit suicide to travel their 'vehicles' onto a comets tail...
My uncle Ned thinks that all the spiders in the world are his pets...
Some people are whackjobs. Congrats. Can we get on with the regular news, now?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Not the CIA! Major League Baseball with their roving constellations of satellites...
these people must just about kill themselves in the winter time with low humity and all the static electricity.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
The Cabal is behind it all! Think about it! What do Mozart's Silver Flute, the Defenestration of Prague, Philip K Dick, and Dubya all have in common? Who was it that poisoned Rusty? And Inoshiro?
It's not the Black Helicopters you fool! Those are just a ruse to distract your attention from the Real Truth! (They're chartreuse helicopters, anyway.) You have been wasting years of your empty life in an obsessive, paranoiac search for the truth! And you can't handle the Truth! The Truth is that there is one, single, true conspiracy!
Best Slashdot Co
This wouldn't have been modded Offtopic. :-( Bad Moderator!
Well, not really. The poor wittle things. The Amish have electricity (in their barns, at least) to better take care of their stock. And where would the Amish be without a few sheep and cows? Besides, the electirically sensitive folks might just have a problem with all the static electricity from wearing wool. Darn!
*Insert clever witticism here.*
Yeah, every time Catherine turns on the microwave I piss my pants and forget who I am for an hour or so.
No mention here made of all of the remote controlled devices that have become a part of daily living.
I wonder if these people crap themselves every time they change the TV channel or open the garage door.....
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
They should just wrap their house in TEMPEST shielding and leave the other residents alone. This is a prime example of "Do whatever the hell you want to with you and yours, just leave me and mine well the F*** alone"
I will bend your mind with my spoon
Isn't there an area in West Virginia, something like 10 miles square, where you can't get radio, TV, or cellular? Started by accident but then the radio astronomers and spooks decided they like the low RF background.
Residents hate it, and want cable.
What a f%cking nut job this Firstenberg is. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the nutburger preaching all the multiple chemical sensitivity crap. Its sad to see a local economy being devistated by the lunatic fears of a vocal whackjob.
Click on my link and read about real science and not this pseudo science cow manure.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Didja see the part where he doesn't disclose his diagnosis, so he can keep collecting disability benefits? His scam goes:
1) Whine a lot about a man-made phenomenon.
2) Get good at malingering.
3) See a doctor, claiming 1) makes you "sick".
4) Vote for your living from that day forward. (The louder you bitch, the more you cash in!)
Really, this guy deserves a kick from every Californian, because we are supporting this bullshit with our taxes.
I wonder if this is really because it would make it harder for the police to communicate and find all the pot grown there. Not that I would know about that.
People vary in their sensitivity to EMFs, and up to 20% of the population (according to Swedish research) can become electrically sensitive.
Anybody notice that this doesn't cite the article, or quote it? Where was it published, the Swedish edition of The Journal of Irreproducible Results?
Perhaps they should put up a giant metal sheild over the whole town to block out services like satellite TV and GPS too.....or just lobby the providers of those services to stop them entirely.
On a slight tangent, is the effect created by microwaving a town wacko about the same as for an AOL CD?
...as the idiot with the web site dedicated to eliminating letterboxed movies and television because "the black bars are censoring the movie".
There was a movie out several years ago called "S.A.F.E" about that chemical sensitivity crap. Please avoid it at all costs, as it is about a nutjob who thinks she's allergic to everything and must live in a clean porcelain box.
All you nutjobs out there...you don't like electromagnetic radiation? I suggest you bury yourselves deep within the ground in a lead lined box...even that will not stop many cosmic rays from penetrating your soul from time to time.
That hyphen is entirely superfluous.
I object to that article, and to the next reply.
That most of the RF radiation received on earth comes from space...you know from places like the SUN! I know...Mendocino is going to build a giant aluminumized dome over itself..and become the SUN FREE ZONE! What a pure whacko!
There is a communities of people who live wire and wireless free in the US, they are called the Amish. Nice folk, live a simple life. They don't try to remove radio stations from nearby communities.
Now if someone beleives that the transmissions are giving them trouble, move to Montana or North Dakota, don't stay in Ca and certainly don't try to move everyone backwards with you. There are alternatives, and they are feasable.
Burn Hollywood Burn
People in mendo are really easily swayed by hysterical rantings, especially if they're involved with conspiracies and anti-"The Man". Much the way /. is about Microsoft. Crackpot theories are a pretty big market there.
If I leave my laptop on my lap for more than a few minutes, I develop a burning sensation.
Bender: (points scanner at Fry)
Fry: Ouch, My Sperm.
Bender: (Scans Fry again)
Fry: Funny, it didn't hurt that time.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
TIA!
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
.. but college kids would have to much fun sticking lighting rods onto it as a prank :-P
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
I was wiring a 3 phase 220 outlet and I got hit with 220. It thew me clear across the room. I guess this would qualify me as "electrically sensitive".
-ted
Hydro-Quebec in Canada have some issues about peoples that don't want electric lines to pass nearby their house. They have order an study about that problem and they found that living near power lines raise the chance of developping blood cancer.
I just don't know if wireless appliance is the solution knowing that magnetic field created by electricity may cause cancer
What about other waves ?
I'll just move to the outskirts of their little town and set up shop. I'll manufacture copper foil baseball caps, chainmail and grounding wrist straps with realy long cords. So who's with me?
...since he collects disability insurance.
So, now, do you feel happy about the kind of people YOUR taxes pay for?
Keep coding/networking, your 27% marginal tax rates is going straigh to Mendocino! Enjoy!
I guess he doesn't have AC power, and lives deep underground in a large copper box right? Not too many other ways to come close to totally escaping EM, the above would be one of the few true ways.
He had to move to California from New York, not because of the EMF, but because any wackjob can convince the other nutcases in California to let him have some soverign space to stand in. California is the "Hold My hand and Pamper my Whim" State. Since the 1960's California has been a haven for complainers, hippies, whiners, and other assorted wastes of Carbon. Just because NYC most likely laughed at him for wearing his Aluminum Foil Cap, he moves to CA where he will fit in with the rest of the weirdos.
I say , Jackhammer California off the continent, and let them have their own little Hippie Wackjob commune Island, and stop polluting the rest of our country with their useless ideals.
Mod Down, Flaimbait
FU CALI
It seems that it would be exceptionally easy to set up a double-blind study to prove or disprove this "electrical sensitivity" condition.
Has it been done?
If we can have a cell-phone free zone, how about a Microsoft-free zone! I'm PC-sensitive.
English teacher Christy Wagner said her students suddenly became "irritable and easily distracted" and that she herself felt nauseous whenever she was at the school
::snore::
Since when have English students not been irritable and easily distracted?
Teacher: "Billy, what did Shakespeare mean with his use of the term 'ass-backwards' in Sonnet 103?"
Billy:
this guy must have grown up under some power lines...
go get it
The list of symptoms is like a hypochondriacs grab bag: Such vague, common symptoms like "sleep problems", or "tiredness". To be honest it sounds more like depression than anything else.
Until such a time as they can put someone in a radio isolated room, and test how they feel with and without a transmitter turned on, with a positive correlation, I find this absolutely ridiculous. The symptom list is exactly the same as the sympton list used for dirty vents, bad office air, extended computer use, drinking unfiltered water, having bad feng sheu, etc.
... these people are going to be complaining about how the sun is throwing off an excessive ammount of electromagnetic radiation, and how we should blow it up to protect ourselves.
Never mind that the rest of us like the sunlight....
but I got high.
What is funnier was, he claims that being exposed to dental x-rays caused the problem?
:)
I think by all medical logic, the x-rays would have fused him with any animal around and endowed him with the abilities of that animal... alla spiderman
Unless the only animal around was a "self important prick" because he seems to have been endowed with the super-powers of that species.
Seriously, this guy clearly has a problem, a psychosomatic illness.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Prove a paranormal ability and Randi will give you one million U.S. dollars, baby.
Seriously. A million bucks. No kidding.
Well, Mr Firstenberg?
We're waiting.
We're still waiting.
We're going to be waiting forever, as usual, aren't we?
Just to save Mr Firstenberg some time, I'll list a typical collection of objections to the validity of Randi's offer, as proffered by various alleged levitators and mind readers, on Mr Firstenberg's behalf:
"There is no money. There is too little money. There is too much money. I want to see the money in a pile. Proximity to cash compromises my spiritual enlightenment. Randi is a powerful anti-psi ray emitter. Randi is a cannibal and I am afraid of him. The FBI will forcibly change my gender if I win. I want it in Tongan Pa'angas, not US dollars. Money is an illusion. Property is theft. I'm a teapot! I'm a teapot!"
Actually, don't avoid the movie. It's an interesting look at exactly the sort of hypochondria this guy has -- while the character in the movie SEEMS to have intense allergic reactions to everyday chemicals, near the end of the movie it's made... not CLEAR, exactly, but definitely implied as a theme of the film that it's more psychological. The chem-free camp she goes to feels awkwardly wrong, her new lifestyle is so sterile that she's barely alive, etc...
Not totally off topic. This movie is actually good footage to study the issue. Even if you feel the issue is crackpots and tinfoil hats, it illustrates what can lead to this sort of reaction.
I would really like this guy to be wired up to something that may or may not be emitting low-level electromagnetic signals he claims hurt him so much. Say a series of mice that may or may not have had every piece of conductor ripped out of them. If he can successfully guess 20 times (odds of 2^20:1 ~ a million to one), which shouldn't be so difficult if these things physically hurt him. Until then, I don't think I am alone in thinking this guy is a nut-bar.
Not to mention that if he tries to stifle my broadband internet access, I'll hook him up to some very high-voltage mice indeed.
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
Sensitivity of the emotional kind is called for here.
The tin-foil hat brigade need places to live, too.
--
E_NOSIG
it was funny the first time you typed this
I wonder if these are also the same people who also buy Magnetic foot inserts to heal the pain?
http://www.magnapak.com/new.html
If one were really serious (ly-screwed-up IMHO) about this, one could construct their home as a Faraday cage. Just lay chicken wire around the entire frame (through the double-paned windows and attached to the steel doors' frame, and use conductive weatherproofing in the door jambs) and connect it all together (solder/weld/twist all points of all corners together) into one giant grounded box. All RF with wavelengths less than about one-tenth the gap of the chicken wire will be blocked (the same principle is used for the window on your microwave oven, it's also why you can see through some satellite dishes). If you want this home to have power, you'll want to hook the breaker panel to a large iron-core transformer which will act as a low-pass filter. A similar low-pass filter can be used for the phone line.
Such a home would be unable to recieve TV or radio, DSL or power-line networking would never pass through, cellphones and government-planted transmitter bugs would be dead inside, and you wouldn't have to worry much about lightning strikes either. Of course it would be cheaper to move out into the boonies.
Pure bliss huh?
*groan*
The Milennium Dome is up for sale, so why don't the Mendocinites (?) buy it, spray it with conductive paint, and thus turn it into the world's largest Faraday Cage? Ideally, this would work both ways, so we'd never have to hear from them again...
(this is not a
I spend 24 hours a day living and working around
computers and wireless networks. I think the
electromagnetic fields are diminishing my mojo.
This must be why I can't get a girlfriend.
It looks like the
I don't know if all of his symptoms are real or imagined, but I will say that using a cell phone or coming close to a wireless ethernet card gives me a migraine every time, and this has been verified in a blind test (friend plugged in card, brought me into the room without telling me it's state; migraine. next day unplugged in card, brought me into the room; no migraine).
Maybe these kinds of radiation aren't harmful to most people, but let's not immediately dismiss this; I think, if nothing else, this issue should be studied by public researchers because Sprint, AT&T, etc. certaintly aren't going to do anything that would in anyway hurt their profits (cf.tabacco companies and the harmful effects of tabacco).
so let's not dismiss this out of hand; it's a reasonable question.
Drew
sounds like California really is the land of fruits and nuts!
Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
Well,
The City of Helsinki made recently a study about the effects of mobile phones in hospitals. In most of cases there's no interference or only if the mobile phone is located excatly next to the instrument. After the study most of restrictions on mobile phone use have been lifted, although there's still some areas (intense care etc.) there's mobile phones are prohibited.
For the record, most mice (optomechanical, that is) contain two light emitter/detector pairs to track x & y movement. Then there are a couple of simple contact switches for the buttons, and a tiny IC to transmit it all as serialized data as specified in the PS/2 mouse protocol. Serial mice work the same way, except they have to mind a few extra pins on the serial interface. All mice, including infrared ones, manage to do this by tapping the 5V power provided over the PS/2 or serial cable. (I assume, with some justification, that USB mice are comparable.)
Having spelled all of that out, you're exactly right. It's negligible. I wonder how the electromagnetic field emitted by living flesh compares...
Hippie Wackjob commune Island?
You do realize your tal;king about the state that gave us Ronald Reagan, don't you?
i have walked down train tracks, walked down train tracks, drunk at 3 a.m. it not magic, it's no great trick, w
It gets better! Exceeding the EMF from computer equipment, power lines, etc. are: HEI ignition in modern cars @50000 volts solar activity lightning (duh) If you go by what the OSHA stuff says, then Morg wouldn't have survived the EMF created by the ion flux of the fire he invented.
I'm sorry, but I'm baloney-sensitive, so I won't be able to visit Mendocino anyway.
I think maybe these guys got a little too much radiation from the big burning ball of fire in the sky.
This story caused me to experience dizziness, irritability, a tingling in my lips, insomnia, depression, and sexual dysfunction.
quote:
"Drink plenty of good clean water (minimum of 2 litres per day for an adult). This is VERY important as we have found that most ES people we have seen are chronically dehydrated. "
I knew id seen those "ES Symptoms" somewhere else - 90% of the symptoms are those of chronic dehydration. isnt it a miracle how drinking water makes those "electrical sensitivity" symptoms go away.
the theory has just disappeared up its own arse.
'Ol smokey trying to stop da rubber duck! least they wont be able to use those rader guns anymore either...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
The eletromagnetic spectrum is so misunderstood.
There is a reason our eyes see the wavelengths they do. Visible light is just the right wavelength to elevate electrons to and induce chemical reactions w/out doing any damage.
Anything shorter (UV, xray) breaks bonds. Anything longer (microwave) lacks the energy to do any more than wiggle the molecule around, generating a bit of heat.
If these people stand in front of a fireplace and enjoy basking in its radiative heat, they are getting nailed by electromagnetic emissions of a much higher frequency (and intensity) than any cel phone/tower could produce.
Must be a wireless mouse...
His critics claim that he is driving away any chance of a significant economy
If he drives the chance of a significant economy to my neck of the woods, it's ok by me!
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
Maybe it's a real, living, mouse because he's afrair of computer mice. And the mice is annoyed and is scratching his hand?
The funny thing is that most third world countries have aggressively adopted wireless communications. Wireless, specifically cellular allows them to have communications quickly and relatively inexpensively. Most of the countries you refer to lack the copper infrastructure that they need for phones because their economies and budgets just can't afford it. But, with wireless they can quickly blanket their respective countryside with cell coverage and anyone that can afford a phone can connect, finally.
Let's just compare the symptoms of the two...
(Dehydration references: here and here.)
ES: Unusual tiredness, Flu-like symptoms, Weakness
Dehydration: Weakness, Fatigue and/or loss of energy
ES: Problems with concentration, dizziness and loss of memory, Sound sensitivity, Sun sensitivity
Dehydration: dizziness, changes in mental state (disorientation, memory loss), Delirium, Irritability
ES: Unconsciousness
Dehydration: Loss of consciousness
ES: Cardiac palpitations
Dehydration: Rapid or weak pulse
ES: Headaches, Teeth and jaw pains, aches in muscles and joints, Burning pain
Dehydration: Headache or bodyache
ES: Nausea and digestive problems
Dehydration: Nausea, vomitting
ES: Dryness of the upper respiratory tract
Dehydration: Dry mouth
ES: Perspiration
Dehydration: Sweating
-------------
Dehydration doesn't account for all the symptoms, but it sure does cover a lot. Makes you wonder if Mendicino just needs a mandatory water consuption policy...
Police officer: sir, I noticed that your driving seems as if you are unusally tired and/or dizzy. Have you been drinking?
Guy: No officer, not a drop!
Police officer: I knew it! I can spot dehydration a mile away! Take this low life and put him in the tank until he sobers up.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Firstenberg refused to disclose his diagnosis, which allows him to collect disability income
If he visits wireless-saturated San Francisco, three hours south of Mendocino, his devices go berserk and he experiences multiple symptoms, including an unquenchable thirst, a pressure in his chest and behind his eyeballs, and "buzzing sensations" in his lips.
Apparently it is possible to get on the gubment cheese by claiming an affliction derived from the plot of any Gilligan's Island episode.
Anybody want a peanut?
This guy must really hate solar flares. Maybe he should sequester himself in a faraday cage.
--
He didn't realize he was using a 2.4 GHz cordless mouse 10 miles from the actual computer and someone had hooked up a giant hidden power supply inside the mouse.
No wonder it's burning his hand! It could burn trees down if they were between him and the receiver!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
"I have people calling me, crying to me that they're in pain all the time, asking me where they can live," Firstenberg said. "I tell them we're trying to save Mendocino as a refuge."
What I want to know is, why are these people using telephones? Cry to him in a letter! On unbleached, natural paper, of course, using squid ink.
Why do nutjobs think that they have the right to change how everyone else lives in a relatively high-population area? They could move to Montana or Utah and be far away from electronic "civilization". Their inherent rights include the right to move away from things that bother them.
What's the problem with this? At least all of CA's worst hypochondriacs will be in one place now.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I hope this woman uses a wireless mouse:
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
That's just too funny.
One more thing, if these people are electrically sensitive, how are they calling this guy on their phones? Shouldn't they be using a can and string or maybe a letter or something?
~ now you know
if people were trying to kill you.
Field day for all California Ham's should be held in Mendocino this year. Special emphasis on 23cm moonbounce operation requested. All HF ops with 1500 watt amps should bring their own generators, as an electrical shortage is expected.
Temkin
I don't have a spellchecker on my post comment screen, and I really don't feel like taking the time to double check all of my spelling, so excuse me if I mess up on a word here and there, arsehole.
~ now you know
so if i go there and start using my cell phone near someone can they arrest me for ES-assault?
Even if they had a legitimate problem (which i dont believe they do) i say there obvioulsy not as evolved as they should be and to bad for them - life sucks then you get run over by a bus.
Ave Molech Setting
EMF and health
Multiple chemical sensitivity
I remember in physics class in high school, we figured out the strength of the EM field around a high voltage wire. We calculated that even as close at 50 feet (like wires suspended in the air), the earth's natural field was like 100 times stronger.
:-D
Since then, I've always viewed these claims of EM radiation problems with a skeptical eye. My own suspicions is that this guy had a few too many REMs to the skull from his dental X-Rays and is a candidate for therapy.
Humorless sig goes here.
Careful about the nut allergy thing- peanuts kill more than 100 people/year- more deaths than beestings, shark attacks, snake bites and a lot of other things people worry about. That ain't psychosomatic.
My wife carries an epipen in case she accidentally eats a peanut or peanut product-very small amounts of peanuts cause her throat to swell shut. Accidentally eating peanuts is a whole lot easier than you might suspect- many, many restaurants fry things in peanut oil and don't tell you. If I eat at Chick-fil-A I can't kiss my wife or touch anything around the house until I wash my mouth and hands to get rid of residual oil.
Nut allergies are very, very real
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Another Wired article linked on that page, Wireless Harmless, More or Less?, talks about research doing just what you have suggested. I didn't search around for the references to the research, but here is what the article said:
A double-blind test, properly run, should be able to eliminate any psychosomatic effects which would bias the testing of "electronic sensitives".
Sapere aude!
This better get modded as Informative......Is this guy aware of large sections of Pennslyvania where no electricity is used? I also know of several places in Indiana that have a large Amish community. Seriously if he is worried about his electo-medical condition why doesn't he move to a remote part of Montana. Errr wait all of Montana is remote.
I live in this area. There is a real problem with asian gangs, and apparently there is a serious potential for violence thats seems to center on these "cyber cafes." It seems funny to read about this, and think of computer and violent crime, but the reality is a little different here.I am actually suprised these are taking off here, they seem so 1997.
...if you're a prankster. Get one of those old twelve-foot diameter sattelite dishes, put it on the roof and point it randomly to different buildings and houses. Don't bother hooking it up or anything...
Then see how many people are complaining that your transmitter is making them see double or whatever.
As my friend Virtros suggests, don't use your mouse in a microwave!
For geek dads: Contraction Timer
I have a sensitivity to pulsed microwaves... everytime I put my head in the microwave and turn it on, my head burns.
http://bike.stu.ph/rides - free GPS routes available for Garmin, Magellan, GPX and Google Earth
After reading all the posts at my threshold, I was appalled to see a significant lack of 'interesting' or 'informative' comments. This is a serious problem for certain people, and just because you don't experience it yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
My grandmother suffers from a psychosomatic disease that makes her very ill when around certain things (i.e. televisions, CRTs, anything with a strong or synthetic odor, etc.). She has been unable for many years now to watch an entire 30 minute TV show without turning the set off during commercials. But like I said, it's purely psychosomatic... in her head.
For example, a few years ago, our family bought her a computer for Christmas. Very slow, very lacking of features, but it allows for email, word processing, and checking of stocks, which is all she needs or ever will need. Problem was, it had a CRT, so she never used it. Ever. So as the LCD screens began coming out, I thought a change of monitors would let her use the computer. Prefacing the purchase of the LCD with information about how the screen doesn't emit the "harmful electrons" that TVs use, she agreed that it might be worth a try. Making sure that a return policy was in effect for the purchase, I bought the LCD and installed it at her house for a test run. She was able to use it without any problems and did not feel sick at all. "Sick," by the way, does not mean feeling a simple headache. We're talking shaking of extremities, loss of strength, vomiting. Even though it has been assumed (and probably proven) that electron emission has no harmful effects, my grandma doesn't care. As long as she thinks it's emitting stuff at her, she will get sick. Tell her it works like a LCD (my explanation to her: thousands of tiny light bulbs arranged in a pattern. just miniature versions of the ones that light your house), and she's completely fine.
So please, take this seriously. Our family has had to deal with it for years now. Say what you will about the author of the article, but people do suffer from the so-called electro-pollution. Even though it may be all in their minds.
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
Mendocino is not isolated enough, I'm sure he still gets bathed in radiation from Fort Bragg and all of the cars driving by on the 1. He needs to go up the coast to Shelter Cove in Humbolt county. Shelter Cove is in the middle of nowhere on California's lost coast.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
I know Christy, and I'll promise that it's in her friggen head.
.. "Oh dear! We'd better inform Bubba the police chief right away! Hurry, the bar closes in an hour and we'll want to catch him before he's passed out in his squad car!"
Of course it's in her head. Transmitters placed on roofs don't "agitate students" or "give (people) headaches." And mice certainly do not burn anyone's hands.
This kind of insanity is why I refuse to live in a small town. Too many idiots with crazy, wild beliefs infecting each other's minds. "Did you hear about Ethel? She's really an alien from outer space! I know, I saw her hobbling around on her walker late last night. She opened the garage door with nothing but her eyes, and there was a big silver disc parked in there!"
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
they /bathe/ the earth in microwaves from coms to radar, gps to amateur band relay. c'mon. get real.
"I have people calling me, crying to me that they're in pain all the time, asking me where they can live," Firstenberg said.
[subtle irony detected]
I'm guessing that this guy is unaware that the speaker in his telephone receiver uses a magnet. And chances are that he is probaby so fearfull of EMF radiation from current model phones - that he has gone out of his way to get a +20 year old phone. You know, the ones with the HUGE magnets!
Hypocondria raised to a political movement. Priceless.
...I'd probably feel safer driving*. Plus, I wouldn't have to listen to disheveled, unemployed dot-commers struggle to maintain their self-image by blathering on their cell-phones. *Then again, all the stoned drivers might pose a problem...
Too bad they don't get many thunderstorms, it would be fun to watch the residents writhing in agony from lightening enduced EMF's. Or maybe we just should sponsor a HamFest there.
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now.
Yes, I have that too. It's called Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.
This sounds "out there" but I have been working with electronics full time since I was a kid around 77, NOW, I started racing motorcycles around the same time, my hearing SUCKS, I have a very hard time hearing "bass" and my own voice it deep so half the time I cant hear myself talk...
That said, ever since I was a child I could "hear" or maybe its rather "feel" tv's on, monitors or other gadgets are pretty much the same. I have heard so many explanations on this, but a TV, any TV has a whine it sounds like a dog whisle almost. I can tell from outside ahouse if a TV or monitor (not so true with smaller ones) is on or not, My wife loves it as I hate a TV being on if noone is watching it. My mother thinks its freaky, I have been in 7000sq ft houses and asked where a TV was, I said a TV is on in this house somewhere, the said no, Then hour later we go down to the rec room to play pool, lo and behold someone left the TV on,
Circut City/ Sears, what have you drives me nuts.
You just learn to live with it, kinda like some bizzare sixth sense seen on , "Mystery Men" whats his power, he can hear if a TV is on 1/4 mile away !:)
This, its fu**king assinine, I dont go around telling people to turn their TV's off, who the hell are they to tell me I cant do wireless where I want, ITS A FACT OF LIFE !, Maybe next we should blot out the sky so people with light sensitive eyes can roam free without sunscreen and sunglasses.
Isnt wrapping aluminum foil around your head to stop this interference just as eccective ?
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
A friend of mine was working at a BMW dealer near Augora when one day they had about a dozen come in on the hook. All head dead computers!!! They where all heading down the same stretch of highway!!
Turns out, some miltary radar was out of wack and was poping BMW's ECM's. They contacted the factory and they sent them a bounch of metalic pouches to put the ECM's into.
good god man! there -are- people less rational than audiophiles out there!
However, while wireless technology has a lot of potentual to be used to put back control of the internet back into the hands of common people, Just look at the freenets being set up in londan, New York and now in Sydney.
It should be noted that these things are not in the interest of company's who wish to screw just because you what to set up your own mail server, and ergo, They could use something like this to deny the use, or limit the power of said networks,
For those of you who say it could never happen (This guy is a loony), you sould note that the English government used the excuse of interfereing with emergency channels to close down a fair number of pirate radio stations and could not even produce one single event of this occuring (some of the radio tech who worked on these sites even worked for the major stations).
Pianist : Some jerk whos taught themselves how to type in rhythm
A testament to the power of highly vocal cranks. For all of our belly-aching about online rights, DMCA, etc., we have much to learn from local wackos about how to effect political change. Today Mendecino, tomorrow the world!
Perhaps he is not wearing his aluminum foil cap tightly enough?
First, let me say that I firmly believe this electrical sensitivity thing is nothing but a load of crap.
But, having said that, I will also point out that anything connected to a computer with wires can easily radiate in the RF regions. This is one of the biggest challenges for meeting FCC requirements (Class B and Class A). When designing a computer to meet Class B (or even Class A, sometimes) all signals going to peripheral connectors (USB, Serial, printer, video, keyboard) require special treatment (RF chokes, for example) to minimize emitted radiation.
The original source of the RF noise is typically the clock generation circuitry (this noise ends up on the power and ground nodes, so even these supposedly DC voltages can be very noisy), although fibre-channel and 100 or 1000 Mbit ethernet are also noisy.
Oh, by the way, you have probably noticed that most video cables have a fat cylindrical object built-in to them. It makes them look like a snake that swallowed a coffee can. This is an RF choke, and without it, the computer as a system might not pass FCC Class B specs. I believe that explains why many video cables cannot be detached from the monitor, although I am not sure.
MM
--
The foil hat is the basic prop of those who believe in CIA mind control rays or electrical sensitivity.
Who was the first nut to think of this? Was it in a well-known movie? Seriously, why do so many nuts believe foil is the answer?
If these people are sensitive to microwave radiation, how do they handle the microwave emmission created BY THEIR OWN BODY HEAT?
I was at the Very Large Array in Socorro, NM, and they had a display with a microwave receiver that reacted to the heat given off by a human body.
Tell you what: Let's let all these people congrigate in the same area, then nuke the site from orbit. The resulting rise in the average intellegance of the human race will be most dramatic.
www.eFax.com are spammers
My gut feeling is that these people are a bunch of california nut jobs, but who knows. We used to think that smoking was safe too, you know.
So, have we actually done studies about these people who are supposedly "electrically sensitive?" There was a teacher in the article who said she felt nauseous whenever she was in the school with a wireless transmitter on the roof. If she is so sensitive to radio waves, why don't we put her in a shielded room with high powered radio transmitters, and run a test. We see if she can tell when she is being bombarded by radio waves. It works exactly like a hearing test, which is used to detect tinnitus and hearing loss. Just tell her to raise her hand when the radio waves make her feel sick.
Until we prove that this is an actual condition, why is anyone listening to these nuts?
I can't believe I missed this on the county's website - I believe it explains everything:
Official Mendocino RF Band Plan
The following band plan has been established to assist Mendocino residents in identifying their illness and subsequently locating the offending service provider. Should you require public assistance in notifying a provider to terminate service and initiate financial repairations for the harm caused, please contact our office at (707) 463-4480, or visit our website.
BANDPLAN (Revised January 4, 2002)
BAND: VLF
3-10 Hz - heart disease, cancer, diabetes, strange voices, ghosts, UFOs and other unexplained apparations (see this site for scientific proof and to learn about a special device that will protect your home from these evil VLF rays)
60 Hz - cancer, heart disease, mental illness, colds, flu, hairloss, rashes, psychotic episodes, ebola, gulf war syndrome
BAND: HF
26.965-27.405 MHz - Obesity, intestinal gas, intellectual stunting, unexplained cravings for tractor pulls, women with tatoos and very cheap beer
BAND: VHF/UHF
400-470 MHz - Uncontrollable sexual urges, strange thoughts, dishonesty, attraction to interns, voices, balding, interest in congressional office
800-950 MHz - AIDS, Herpes and other SIDs
BAND: SHF AND ABOVE
2400-2472 MHz - Cancer, blisters, warts, headaches, nausea
5300-5850 MHz - Blindness, body odor, night sweats, rashes
According to Amish News, the Amish do not shy away from technology, and in fact even use cell phones
The article summarizes their position on technology:
Frequency is important, too. The earth's natural field takes tens (or is it hundreds?) of millions of years to flip around; the power line's field is changing every 1/60 of a second. There's a reason you can wrap an inductor around the line to get juice, but can't do the same around the equator.
Don't get me wrong, I strongly doubt there's any detectable biological effects from power lines, but that's something that would have to be proven by double-blind experiment; your calculations aren't enough.
That said, though, it's also true that we can't impose the burden of remediation on everyone else unless we're reasonably confident that the "true" cause has been identified, and that can only be done with the kind of controlled studies that several others have suggested here.
But give these people a break; their suffering is real even if they're grasping for bogus explanations...
More power to me, all the better to frag you with!
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
...English teacher Christy Wagner said her students suddenly became "irritable and easily distracted" and that she herself felt nauseous whenever she was at the school. In September, she took a medical leave.
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
Question: Since computers put out a significant amount of electical waves, at least significant for people who may be "sensitive", why are they using computers at all? Don't forget power lines, which radiate a lot more (and some say cause cancer)...
Sounds like Eddie, the brother-in-law from National Lampoons Christmas Vacation.
"Had a metal plate in my head, but everytime I would fire up the microwave, I'd piss my pants and forget who I was for a half an hour."
is by faking them out. Put them in a room with a fake transmitter and tell them that everytime the green light goes on, they are going to get zapped and you will watch thier reactions. Except, in reality, you actually zap them when the light is OFF. Then after they finish having thier seizures or whatever when the EMF radation is off and they seem to recover when it's on, go publish your report saying that too little radiation is bad for people's health.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Okay, I can't resist.
> Microwaves are intentional radiation and are used to TRANSMIT power, not always to simply carry a signal.
Microwaves are EM waves with a certain wavelength, not "intentional radiation" as you've stated. The largest generator of microwave radiation around is the Sun. Microwaves that are generated outside of microwave ovens are used almost exclusively for communications (which is not to say they aren't harmful, but not for the reason you state). Microwaves in ovens are EM waves with the specific wavelength that best transmits energy to water molecules. The microwaves used in tower transmitters is not. Also, microwave transmitters put out microwave beams that don't attenuate very much. It's why they're used; the signal can be thrown farther than a simple broadcast like radio waves because the beam stays cohesive, so most of your power goes down the transmit path, whereas with radio, most of the power goes everywhere but the receiving antenna. It's also why you need line-of-sight to use microwave communications.
The simple fact is that exposure to microwaves in the outside world is not increased to any real degree by the use of microwave transmitters. The exposure you get from standing in range of a microwave tower is smaller by powers of ten than the amount you're getting from the sunlight.
Of course, all of this discussion is offtopic to the original article, as they're not talking about exposure to microwave radiation. The original article is about someone working to eliminate broadcast transmitters to reduce public exposure to radio waves. The whole "electrically sensitive" thing seems to be a misnomer for sensitivity to induced magnetic fields, and I'm not sure why it's part of the discussion, but then sensibility never figured highly in these matters.
Virg
P.S. The law to which you refer has to do with preventing local governments from passing laws that would have excessive externalities. The main reasoning is the threat from a midwest community to prohibit satellite owners from sending down satellite transmissions within its confines. This would have precluded any satellite transmissions to anywhere in North America, as most satellites use a footprint of that size to transmit. And before you get all bent about how that exposes you to radiation, keep in mind that you need a concentrator (a dish) just to get enough signal to detect.
She of the burning mouse-palm evidently didn't mind letting her students cruise the Web back in '96. One of the goals of a course was to "USE TECHNOLOGY and the INTERNET to communicate, cooperate and write with students in other places". Hmm. I wonder if she's apologized to all those poor twitchin' kids she led astray?
Bah, I'm out of work at the moment.. maybe I should get into the business of building large faraday cages around people's homes :P
mendocino's whole "thing" is that they're __not__
modern. they're "1880's"
no fast food.
no chain stores.
lots of old buildings.
lots of little shops for tourists.
plus: they're more 1880's than you are.
and they won't let you forget it.
so this whole article doesn't mean shit.
Home of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory.
NRAO
Of course, he probably wouldn't believe those huge antennas were actually receivers.
maybe it was an athlon powered mouse, and the heatsink fell off :^)
These microwaved protesters whip up their fears on a radio station that continuously blasts my house with radio frequency energy from less than two miles distance. And they are getting burns from their computer mouse! hmmm Where shall I start protesting?
Am I alone in being mildly amused that Mendocino was the codename for one of the Celeron cores - one of those evil computer things that causes so much fear and loathing in, er, Mendocino?
THere are just as many whackos in cities. They just get lost in the shuffle.
And speaking of nuts, how about Doctor Michael Jacobsen of the Center for Science in the Public Interest, he wanted movie theater popcorn regulated.
Hey, all you goofs, it's a court system, not a synagogue. Just think what the world would be like if Jon Katz ran it. Gawd, it'd be like shooting Palestinians.
Yes, a human-sized copper mesh hamster ball.
That way, he'd be separated from society for the nutbar that he is, and also be able to avoid the evil zingy rays he fears so much.
Hmm, I wonder if these "electrically sensitive" people own hamsters. It may not work on the human scale, but I could make a killing selling them to the pets of these hysterics.
You should always profit from lunatics. That's the American way, anyways.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
With all the Breatharians up there, I don't see how you are going to get anything resembling mandatory consumption of anything.
Fortunately, this is no longer the case. However, when he had the pacemaker put in, we were given a set of rules regarding things he could and could not do, among these were recomendations that he not allow himself get too near to wireless devices. This is not to say no wireless networks in the house at all - but to simply not place himself in a manner where he was extremely close to such a thing. (They actually choose the side of your body to place the PaceMaker, based on your dominant hand - such that you can hold a cell phone in your other hand, having little impact on the pacemaker itself, as well as to reduce the strain on the device during movement.)
Newer devices are even less restricted - and as time goes on, I imagine many of the restrictions above will be reduced or eliminated. (Maybe future versions will actually talk to wireless networks.. hehe.) In any event, this was to simply answer your question about whether or not there were actually people that could be considered sensitive to RF. I can't imagine anybody requiring the extreme that was mentioned in this article.
------ 24.5% slashdot pure
Ok, so I have just read every post here and I must say that nearly every single post is just dismissing these people as "nutjobs" and laughing at them.
What no-one has really done is to consider different parts of the EM spectrum- I mean- not many people think that the power lines in their home make them ill, but a hell of a lot of people (myself included) feel actual physical symptoms from using mobile phones. We're not talking about the discomfort from pressing a piece of plastic on your head here, but weird heat and tingling sensations in the eye for example.
There have been mixed findings from mobile studies, but some have found elevated blood pressure in subjects, disturbed sleep if mobile left on bedside-cabinet etc.
Like someone else posted- we used to think smoking was safe. If you said to someone then that smoking could kill them, they'd say "No way! See, I'm smoking now and I feel fine!"
Police in the uk have been ordered to limit mobile calls to 5 minutes or under, as have some large companies, since they don't want to get sued.
I'm just saying- we don't know what effect the upper frequencies like 2.4Ghz are having on us, and the recent explosion in use of this frequency is cause for at least lots of proper scientific studies that mobile phone companies can't tamper with.
graspee
I don't hafta tell my wife where I *really* got that rash now.
We should have a big get together in the city (preferably close to his house) and have everyone bring all the portable electronic devices they can carry!
Not this guy isn't a kook, but this argument has a problem. People tend to be 'sensitive' to ionizing radiation in that it affects them (radiation poisoning for nontrivial exposures) but they can't tell that they're being exposed until well past the danger point.. So people in places where there might possibly be accidental exposure get to carry some kind of radiation sensor around with them.
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
Actually, it works only for you. Try this.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Well, of course "Wired" would run this story! "Wireless" is the LAST thing that the want!
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Drinking lead can cause real health problems, especially among children. That is actually my new favorite theory explaining the decline of the Roman empire, all the aristocracy drank from marvelous plumbing made of, yup, lead pipes.
:)
And besides, I saw on the X-Files how there's a big government conspiracy to cover up the health effects of power lines
Maybe that explains why I'm so fucked up!
And it's not a hearing issue, either, or at least I don't think so. I spent some time listening to and playing extremely loud music, and I know I have hearing loss, but this stuff still comes in loud and clear.
You know, that actually sounds like a good idea. It would atleast keep the glare off my CRT.
If something like that were to happen, I'm sure it would be the place for goths and hackers.
I think I'll just settle with my basement.
Mendo has always been a magnet for nut jobs. I remember once when I was in class (yes at that very high school) this group of people from Santa Fe burst into the classroom dressed up as aliens preaching some sort of new age alien love bullshit. Our teacher let them go on for a bit then asked them to leave. It turned out that they were affiliated with the Universal Life Church and all as crazy as it gets.
So I guess that the only thing that makes this story of stoned burnouts ranting on the sidewalk in front of The Mendocino Bakery new is that this time they are ranting about "wireless technology".
Yeah you wacko. And you havent really read
physics and biology havent you?
Just look at your negro friend. You look more
and more like them.
Observe:
This post contains multiple menings, depending
on your mode and intelligence. If you can only
see one meaning, your disease is being American
and if you can see to many your desease is being
an Israelite.
Now go Fuck yourself.
Hmm, did I say my toilet paper is red, blue and
white with stripes and stars?
Best Whishes.
"Try putting them through an experiment in an environment secure & devoid of radio activity (say, a bunker somewhere with a guassian cage around it)"
1 Place electrically sensitive subjects in a gaussian cage bunker.
2 Lock it.
3 Leave.
If you're a stickler for proper scientific method, feel free to check on them when you're sure they are too old to further pollute the gene pool.
Ad luna, Alicia! Ad luna!
Get a life! Oh, it's the (insert stereotypical religious, ethnic, sexual [orientation], political [affiliation] slur here)! Maybe when someone passes an ordinance to keep out backwards ass, ignorant, mouth breathing, F***s the rest of us will finally have piece.
It may seem (read be) ridiculous to most of us, but Firstenberg took a stand. And he obviously wasn't alone. So regardless of how stupid it may seem, it's happenning has nothing to do with his being Jewish you prat!
Only in California. Articles like these make me feel sorry for the poor bastards that have to live in the same state as these people. And they vote, too.
Seriously, if they're so electrically sensitive, why haven't they put up a giant umbrella to blot out the biggest E-M noisemaker in the solar system (more commonly known as "the sun")? Or why haven't they moved closer to the equator to make sure they're as far away from the aurora borealis as possible?
I'm willing to bet that, within five years of the first viable fusion reactor going on-line, somebody in California will have neutrino-related health problems. And THEN where will they move?
Is there a place to donate money to the highschool radio station? I'd be willing to give a few bucks to help their cause.
I think some cellular / wireless company out there should sponser the station, if they get to share the tower.
Better yet, lets construct a really massive antenna, sit outside city limits, and blast the residents with radiation.
What a moron! My question is, does he have electricity in his home? Does he use the telephone? Does he drive a car? Anything using electricity creates an EMF.
...the local newspaper is called the "Beacon"?
:-)
Better shut that baby down!
I keep hearing people in the other stall in the bathroom using their fucking pda's. Sitting there and 'Beep, beep, tap tap tap'. C'mon, now that's just an inappropriate use of a pda. You don't need to get up to the minute stock quotes or save the galaxy from aliens when you're taking your morning dump.
From the Factsheet No. 263, Oct 2001
AND
<opinion> Contrary to (un)popular belief, the strength of EMF required to do *any* harm to living tissue is not a matter of debate, you'd have to practically sleep with a power-pole in your ass and a cell-site antenna in your head to even *think* of having a chance of getting cancer. Frequency, power-at-distance, and exposure time/period are the factors to consider in any such study of biological effects. In other news... pseudo-sciencists around the world suggest you get Mind-Guard (TM) if you don't want those government mind-control rays.</opinion> =P
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
calling someone jewish does not necessary mean that you think that being jewish has anything to do with their actions. like if i said 'reverend jesse jackson' did so and so, and someone started yelling at me that his actions have nothing to do with his being a reverend.
in this case, yeah, maybe it was meant as a slur, but don't be so oversensitive. people call me 'that crazy jewish guy' all the time, doesn't bother me one bit. and i'm not even really jewish.
-rp
> Please, you idiots making fun of these people, you are true idiots and it is becouse you are not complaining on the companies instead. They should create products not transmitting harmful radiation. They should find alternative methods of doing same things that doesnt HARM humans.
There are some real problems with this. Creating products that don't create harmful radiation (based on this fellow's definition of "dangerous") would require them to build devices that don't use electricity, since he's complaining about any radiant EM field, and these fields are induced by electric current. Needless to say, few people (in the modern world, anyway) are willing to give up the use of electricity to protect themselves from EM fields.
> And becouse, you are the #1 on the list to become electricsensitive. And many of you are that already Your ears getting hot? It feels like sand in your eyes? Dry skin? And many more things that are signs of electricsensitivity.
The problem here is that of all of the sysmptoms listed, none of them (and no combination of them) seems exclusive to the condition. Moreover, the only backing information cited was a vague reference to a Swedish study, and the facts from the only study data the Swedes ever published stated that people who claimed to be electrically sensitive could not detect and were not demonstrably affected by EM fields in double blind tests. This would tend to refute Mr. Firstenburg's claims, but strangely the web site makes no mention of the results, only the study. This leads me to believe that more proof is needed about the causal link of bad health and EM exposure before it makes sense to start in on lifestyle changes.
Virg
Electrical sensitivity is not recognized by the U.S. medical establishment, and Firstenberg refused to disclose his diagnosis, which allows him to collect disability income.
...bevy of devices to detect radio frequencies, including a meter that gauges electrical, magnetic and microwave fields." Probably not. I bet he rides a bike, and his next "illness" will be an allergy to gas fumes.
For cryin' out f*ckin' loud! I'm paying tax money for this flake to sit at home on his ass and fire up?
These people better hope there's never a thunderstorm nearby. Do you know how much RF noise fills the air during even a modest storm? It'll kill 'em all. Or maybe not. Because there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! They just want to live in some hippie commune.
What a great example of mass hysteria. Ultra-liberals have moved from pushing smokers around to picking new targets.
I wonder if Firstenberg owns an SUV to haul his "
1) Didn't John Walker Come From Mendicino?
2) This guy is from Mendicino.
Conclusion: This guy is Taliban.
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
Anyone ever carefully read the EULA for Java? You aren't allowed to use Java to control pacemakers or nuclear facilities.
I don't know why, but I just found that hilarious.
I know what you mean about pacemakers. They always put those signs on the scanners at libraries that check to see if you're taking a book without checking it out warning that they might interfere with pacemakers. I always wondered how they decided to install them.
"We have this new device that prevents people from stealing our books."
"Great, lets install it."
"There's one catch, it kills old people."
"Oh who the hell cares about that? Install the damn thing. And make sure this old person killing device runs on Java."
So who's gonna put up a faraday cage around the city? I really don't think the state will be footing the bill for this.
I mean, you have to block short-waves, right? You wouldn't want those cancer causing short-waves burning out your mind, now, would you?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Um... 60hz is that little plug in your wall. Did I miss the NY Times story about the mass ebola epidemic running rampant for the last 100 years?
Why couldn't it cause impotence so these dopes don't breed?
- My computer monitor gives me eyestrain.
- Microwaved convenience food makes me nauseous.
- Fluorescent lighting produces a humming sound in my ears.
- Cable television makes my brain hurt.
Mendocino, the entire country, is an object lesson for every Californian. Humbolt the city, and the rest of the country, was once staunchly conservative with a thriving economy in lumber. Than Cal State Humbolt set up shop. Thousands of students with empty heads showed up. Ivory tower professors showed up to fill their heads with ivory tower thoughts. Then the students started voting. Humbolt became a liberal mecca. The cancer spread throughout the county. Now Humbolt's economy is based on lawsuits and welfare checks.
Don't let this happen to your community. It happened to Santa Cruz. It happened to La Jolla. It happened even to Berkeley and Palo Alto, both conservative havens in the liberal bay area...until the voting age was lowered to toddlerhood. It's going to happen to Merced with the new UC. The only place this hasn't happened is when the university is in a big city. The old saying goes "if you're not liberal at 18 you have no heart, if you're not conservative at 68 you have no brain." Well, move a major university to a small town and you suddenly get more heart than brains.
I'm sure the guy in this story has his heart in the right place, but he certainly has no brain!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Maybe that's why it doesn't bother you?
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
they poisoned my water supply, killed my crops and made my cattle sick!
burn them!
love greg
sig - .
Like that sulphur to make them stink like rotten eggs all the time (good thing they are gonna live in a specified area) and his book.
I think this action is going make it comedy fodder for Rush Limbaugh and other conservative hosts, sad to say.
It just proves that some Californians live up to the pejorative moniker of Land of Fruits and Nuts. They should be more concerned about things like low altitude air pollution.
I had the fun experience of helping a friend set up his ISP's wireless network and on top of the tallest building in town is located an 800 MHz cell site. When working up there in proximity to the cell site (ie 15-25 feet) I could definately feel something odd, but when I went back downstairs I was fine and I have no after effects.
Exposure to high-intensity RF can do funny things to you, just look at chicken in the microwave, but the regular stuff we all live in won't hurt, much. ;)
As a side note there was a sign up there that said something to the effect of, "WARNING: This area exceeds FCC limits for human exposure to RF."
sarcasm really is lost in text.
Stories like this remind me of when my mother's friend's son got a cable modem in his room a few years ago, and suddenly was unable to get up at any reasonable time in the morning to go to school. Since they thought I was a computer expert, I was quizzed if the cable modem could be emitting "bad ions" that were damaging his health. I didn't have the heart to say that it wasn't bad ions, just staying up late downloading porn and playing Quake that was the problem.
The rest of them can have the surface of this planet we will send up fruit baskets every once in awhile and we will be sure to visit when we are hungry after a long day's work.
Oh, The Time Machine by H. G. Wells. How precious (yes, the Eloi from The Time Machine look like Precious Moments). You do know that you'll have to spray drugs on the food to keep the Eloi from learning everything you do and revolting against you? You do know that in the forthcoming sequel, the Eloi rise up and pull an Animal Farm on your asses?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Two things. First, some people use their PDA to read (get an article or book on the PDA, then head for the "reading" room). Second, there's no need for an apostrophe after PDA. "PDAs" works.
Virg
Not that it matters, but I'm not Jewish either. If the guy is a crackpot, then so be it, I have no problem with that.
I do however have a problem with:
"Firstenberg is just another Jewish nut, using the government to impose his values on others."
"Whether it's Greenpeace, the Nature Conservancy, or PETA, the Jewish crazies are trying to bury civilization."
So what if his name were Smith? Would he just be another crazy WASP...? Probably not!
Who is it that is trying to "bury civilization"? Is it the "nut" with the EMF-intolerance, or the person who needs to make a point by hiding behind bigotry?
Just create a sugar pill, give it a fancy name, and say it "cures electrosensitivity". Sell it and make millions off all the idiots who think they have a problem. If you think the placebo effect doesn't work, consider Alex Chiu's rings, those bracelets they advertise on live365 iRadio, and OTC pain killers...
It's people like this that define the phrase junk science. (shaking head!)
Personally, if electricity were causing cancer and other dehabilitating conditions, they would have found out like by 1910, twenty years after electric power generation and power transmission by overhead wires became common in the northeastern USA.
Another good example is the Three Mile Island accident in 1979. The radioactive release on a per person basis near that plant is the equivalent of getting radiation at altitude from a New York City to Los Angeles jet flight of 5.5 hours.
Now you know why I dislike the majority of the environmental movement--they don't bother to test their theories before making their conclusions at times.
You are dealing with a "Part 15" device - aka, unlicensed. Part 15 devices use PARTS of the RF spectrum as secondary users - They have the resposability not to interfere with the licensed PRIMARY users of that part of the spectrum, and it's THEIR problem if they receice interference
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
maybe there really is a Nerve Attenuation Syndrome (was that the name?)..
Or maybe these are just a bunch of crackpots.
Who wants to bet that if they'd put the antenna on the school, and said it was broadcasting, even when it wasn't, that the teacher would've complained? It's likely all a psychosomatic thing.
- My favorite error message: xscreensaver, running on an old Sparc 5 w/ 8bit color: bsod: Couldn't allocate color Blue
Interesting turn of phrase, that. The medical term for it is "good high-range hearing" and I understand, as I'm also able to pick up the high-pitched sound given off by old picture tubes. The difference between this and the statement of electric sensitivity is that hearing high-pitched sounds can be proven (and has been) with a simple microphone, speaker and oscilloscope.
Virg
I wonder if the article belongs to the "Tech" category at all... Should be "Anti-technology" :-)
Telecommunication and television satellites ALL paint all of the continental US with microwaves, and many of the DTH satellites are 120 watts. Regardless, there are 30+ satellites all painting the us with a minimum of 40 watts of microwave energy each. This town is no exception.
Desperation is a stinky cologne
Today, it's nothing short of laughable. If someone could actually prove that any such electrosensitivity existed, they'd be strong candidates for a Nobel Prize. At the very least they'd have discovered something new in molecular biology, if not physics itself.
Despite that obstacle, this issue has continued to resurface year after year ever since that yellow journalist, Paul Broduer wrote "The Zapping of America" and Wertheimer and Leper conducted their seriously flawed and irreproducible study back in the 1970s.
It seems to me these folks must think innuendo is a valid criterion for evaluating scientific research (Broduer used this technique very nicely). Since it's awfully hard to meet their demands in this country, I invite them to join the Taliban in their nice Faraday cages at Camp X-Ray. I hear the accomodations aren't too shabby...
Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
When the hell did periods disappear from acronyms? I VERY clearly remember being taught in elementary school that acronyms use the first letter from each word, capitalized, and followed by a period. Like N.A.S.A. or A.I. Was I hallucinating all of fourth grade? Surely I didn't start that young.
When did the nation vote to remove periods? When was this on the nightly news? PDAs CANNOT work by the rules as I know them. Personal Digital Assistants would just be P.D.A. Making it indistinguishable from Personal Digital Assistant, P.D.A. N.A.S.A.s makes no sense. Grammar nazis, what the hell are the rules for capitalizing and pluralizing acronyms?
Join the peace corps and help rebuild Afghanistan. They're about as technologically backward as you can get and then the nutcases^Wpeople could be doing some good...
Let the Butlerian Jihad commence.
People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
There are some pretty big holes in this chart.
Nothing mentioned between 60 Hz and 27 MHz, so all those quacks on the AM band (535 kHz - 1605 kHz) are still able to talk to their gullible audiences about E-M sensitivity.
Also conveniently lacking are all your VHF TV channels. That gap between 27 MHz and 400 MHz is more than big enough for all channels between 2 and 13 (54 MHz - 88 MHz for channels 2 through 6, and 174 MHz - 215 MHz for 7 through 13). You may be sensitive to other parts of the spectrum, but at least you can still catch your Must See TV with no risk of odd sexual urges!
FM radio is also OK (88 MHz to 108 MHz), so NPR is still good for me. Thank heaven for little favors...
But some of you Dawson's Creek fanatics may be out of luck. The UHF TV channels are mostly harmless (470 MHz - 608 MHz for channels 14 to 36, 614 MHz - 806 MHz for 38 to 69), but as we can see, channel 69 may cause AIDS. Check your local listings!
New customers of satellite radio should be safe (they tend to sit in the S-band, between 2.31 GHz and 2.36 GHz, just under the frequencies for blisters and warts).
Unfortunately for Cox, Comcast and other cable companies is the way they get their feeds on the C-band (3.6 GHz to 7.025 GHz) Proof positive that too much late-night Cinemax can make you go blind!
Even worse for them, their competitors in the digital satellite market are sitting pretty in the ku-band (10.7 GHz - 14.5 GHz). Too energetic for any problems listed here.
On a slightly more serious note, I'm surprised they didn't mention the serious (proven) health risks of more energetic frequencies, like the severe burns that can be caused by EM waves in the 350 THz - 400 THz range, or the relation between skin cancer and frequencies over 750 THz. Hell, if you have too much of anything between 400 THz and 750 THz, you might go blind!
Next thing you know, he'll be kicking Dan Rather's Ass, calling him Kenneth, and demanding to know what frequency the feds are using to control his mind.
What a nut.
Don't forget to read to the end of Animal Farm before announcing a victor.
Fry 'em.
At first I thought this might work out well. Being one of the only towns to make this rule stick would certainly draw people to that location. Then I thought about it... The town will be consumed with hypochondriacs, will cease to function and require a bailout from the state of California.
I should stop persuing my computer science degree, and instead get a PhD in Psychology. I could then move to this town where 99% of the population is totally fucked up in the head and make a shit load of money.
Nobody hates progress more. Welcome to my world: Northern California.
The voters in places like Mendocino, Berkeley, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Oakland... tend to consider the scientific method to be part of the "vast right-wing conspiracy". Their politics reflect how far beyond scientific reasoning they've "evolved".
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
This guy is quoted in the article as saying he can't even hold his computer mouse anymore without pain.. whats he think is happening to him? magical ray eminating from the mouse are microwaving his hand.. out of all the computer equipment most people use, surely the mouse is the least dangerous..
Its like the one guy in the article said.. "you can't argue with zealots"
It disturbs me that this crazy person can collect disability for the fact that he thinks electronics harm him..
The Onion describes new technology that is bound to cure electrical sensitivity. Approved for your use by men in very white coats.
Why am I tempted to move to Mendocino and start a HAM radio hobby?
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
I suggest a ban on sleep. Sometimes I have terrible nightmares and they make me feel real bad! I propose everyone get a sleep buddy, that way you can wake eachother up every half hour or so just in case.
That's Mendocino. The whole thing. It's a flyspeck. If you want to buy anything useful, like groceries for example, you go to Fort Bragg, which is about 10 minutes north.
The real irony, I think, is that a tower placed in Caspar (an even smaller town that sits between Mendocino and Fort Bragg, consisting of a bar with a kitchen, a small hotel, and a small recording studio) would probably serve all the wireless needs of anyone in Mendocino just fine.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
These people don't like the new verizon ad. "Can you hear me now?"
Being an amateur radio operator, I fully understand the possible side effects of RF.
If it weren't for the huge lobbying efforts of the electricity industry, there would be sweeping investigations into the effects of living around especially the high tension lines you see on the huge usually steel towers.
Congrats to this city, keep it up.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
Found a nice page with info on power lines and cancer. A choice quote...
Calculations show that the typical maximum power radiated by a power line would be less than 0.0001 microwatts/cm^2, compared to the 0.2 microwatts/cm^2 that a full moon delivers to the Earth's surface on a clear night.
So, you mean to tell me this guy carries a sheet of lead on his head to stop the constant barrage of RF comming from the thousands of orbiting satilites? ...or did he forget about those? (sensativity thru obscurity? :-)
:)
Sounds like this guy slings FUD better than a salesman for watchguard
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Don't forget to read to the end of Animal Farm before announcing a victor.
In fact, I first realized the similarity of my story to Animal Farm after I listened to "the becoming" on NIN's album the downward spiral. To put it another way, "You are what you defeat."
Will I retire or break 10K?
For a person to be electrically sensitive, the neurons in that person's brain must be able to register interferences or changes in electrical activities from the surrounding. It is a simple exercise to show that the voltage from a nearby cell phone is not sufficient to break the carbon-carbon covalent bond -- the basis of neuronal activities.
So, it is not inconceiveable that these electrically sensitive types are actually neuronally challenged -- maybe they are mutants of the human race that are not carbon-based life forms, being doped with krypton or xeon isotopes, for e.g., thus having a lower threshold of the neuronal covalent bond energy.
In a related anecdote, some guy (IIRC in the UK) was busted for stealing power from the power company. He did this buy winding a large quantity of copper coil around his garage, which was situated underneith a high voltage line. The garage full of coil was sufficient to induce enough power to run his house. Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the story.
Caveat: I still think the people trying to shut down the school radio are nuts. I just wanted to point out that short-range EM from high voltage lines is a much different situation than EM from cell towers.
Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
Available for purchase
To play the devil's advocate for a moment...
I don't think they think it's possible to block out all stray radiation, just like it's not possible to avoid all injury in football. They're just putting on some pads.
Of course, none of them will be able to read this, so I'm burning karma for nothing. Oh well.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
The sad thing is that people feel wireless and fast Internet access are essential for a good economy. If you take one of the most beautiful places on earth and give it a "healthy economy," that means extreme land development and infrastructure that ruins everything about the place that made people want to live there in the first place. Why is it "unhealthy" to have an economy that is not growing, that merely sustains itself?
People like this need to be ejected into the sun so that they cant breed!!! I mean this sounds like the start of a new cult or something thats anti technology so that these whiney ass commie pricks can sit around and relate these imaginary woes to other nuts like themselves. Maybe we could put them all on an island or in the desert with nothing but essentials and let them live, and then watch them some back to civilization with a new appreciation for radios, and microwaves, and cell phones...etc..etc! People are Stupid!
While I agree the guy is, um, strange ... its not the presence of a EM field thats dangerous ... its more like being exposed to changes in flux thats a problem ... Either by moving *your* body through the field, or the field changing somehow, IE alternatic current :)
... the reason the earths field dosen't bother is us, because relative to us it is stationary.
You have to recall the universe is all about motion
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
There already exists a "Radio Free Zone" in the United States that is far more free of stray electromagnetic fields than Mendocino could ever hope to be. It is a very large area around the Greenbank Radio Telescope facility (and some military facilities) in West Virginia called the National Radio Quiet Zone.
s at /nrqz.html
If these kooks really want to be "free" from the EM spectrum then they should stop trying to take over the politics of Mendocino and force the locals to give up their technology so these "sensitives" can all move there. Instead they should just move to the 13,000 square miles of land already covered by the National Radio Quiet Zone. That way the people of Mendocino can enjoy their wireless technology and cell phones and the "sensitives" can live as sheltered an existence as they could ever hope to have.
http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/faculty/haynes/a
.. hmmm, wirelessless?
Acronyms were originally under strict rules for use. However, as of 1991 (by my best recollection, at least) the Chicago Manual of Style allowed for acronyms to be built with or without periods. Capital letters are still a requirement, and I don't recall seeing any mention allowing apostrophes to pluralize. Anyone have a recent copy of the big orange that can check?
Virg
P.S. Since when have changes to accepted editorial style been news? I figure that if the nightly news people cared enough about style changes to report on them, they might consider using editorial style guidelines once in a while as well.
copper mesh dome
There is hardly anyone to disturb there. That guy wouldn't have much to worry about from radio/micro waves there.
Seriously, I think if the people want to have a radio/micro wave free zone they should be able to have it. After all, silicone breast implants were considered safe for many years. (heck, in 35 years it may be determined the cellular phones increase breast size)
Coding Blog
The crusade of the good people of Mendocino, CA has inspired me to make an effort to help aliviate the pain and suffering of myself and many others. I am photosensitive, meaning my eyes burn if I don't wear sunglasses or tinted lenses outdoors on a sunny day. I am told that many other people, even a few of my friends, are also affected by this horrible affliction. This is why I am taking advantage of this thread to announce my plans to invade a small town with photosensitive people (Lorne NB looks promising right now) and block out the sun and all other forms of light.
Raum-Energie-Forschung.de has a amazing article about an experiment implementing global-scaling-technology into voice/data-transmission-technics .. the idea is to modulate standing gravity-waves with voice-signature. There has been a successful demo of this technology in germany, where scientists established a "realtime" voice connection over 2500km distance without a sender. This would bring the benefits of a non-polluting (esmog) wave-communicating-system! An article about the experiment can be found here . ..) .. the only bad thing about this article: it written in german and its a PDF.
.. Global-Scaling is deep math-science with a rather wide spectrum of possible application on health, biology, tech,
farmers for years have laid out long loops of wire under hv powerlines which couple inductively and provide enough current to run the lights in the chicken coop or barn.
but they can be charged for theft of service when the power company inspects the right of way periodically and finds the wire loop...
and what about those 2 dishnetwork satellites sitting at long. 110w and 119w bathing the entire northern hemisphere with 500 channels and not a damn thing to watch on tv...?
"...can you imagine a BEOWULF CLUSTER of these? That'd be some serious power!"
I have some sympathy for people like this. Not the patronizing, smug kind, but the real kind. The reason is, I myself could be diagnosed as 'electrically sensitive'. It has nothing to do with EM fields permeating the air and giving me skin rashes. What it has to do with is noise. My computer's hard drives spinning away, fans whining and whirring away, the monitor emitting a high-pitched tone just on the edge of my hearing, the TV doing the same thing, the simple hum of the electricity through the walls, and on and on. Ever been hit with a sense of relief when the power goes out and all those noises that you don't hear consciously are quiet? Me too.
It's the NOISE, caused by electrical devices. It's measurable, annoying, and after a while it wears on you, like somebody rubbing you with sandpaper all day.
and this guy could be brothers.Gene Ray's harmonic Timecube
Maybe certain frequencies cause chemical changes in these people's bodies, who knows how -- a broken bond, an inactive gene that becomes active, a protein is somehow modified, whatever. Over time, these people develop allergic sensitivities to these mutated biochemicals (the same way a worker in a perfume factory might develop a sensitivity over the years).
Then, whenever they are exposed to the right frequency radiation, and these chemicals start to get produced, they have an allergic reaction.
Could it be possible? I'm not a chemist, so could somebody comment on it?
Of course. Since you're probably really "Italian" (like Chico Marx or Howard Stern) , here's a tip for whenever people can't see you using your *hands* to illustrate what you are saying; use punctuation!!! It's the only way we _know_ what you are emphasizing!!!
For many years I have seriously contemplated a radio-free bedroom. I don't need to keep my cellphone in my bedroom, nor do I need any other radio device. Since I spend eight to ten hours a night in it, I think it would be nice to be surrounded by a faraday cage. When I think of the amount of jumbled up spectrum that irradiates me every day, I'd just sleep better at night knowing I was radio free.
:-) (don't need too many people knowing I am a little strange)
Really I sympathize with the kooks who coat their walls in foil to block the radio waves. I personally will use copper mesh under plaster.
Firstenberg refused to disclose his diagnosis, which allows him to collect disability income.
A book deal? Disability income? Enough said ...
chongo (was here)
No, if he were just a crazy WASP his name would be McVeigh or Weaver or Koresh etc. Quit picking on Smith! =)
No a mouse is not just a diode or two. Almost all will have some form of microchip (possibly just a serial encoder, probably more) in there. Many older mice are dual mode, so they'll function connnected to the serial port, or the ps2 port. Modern USB mice _will_ contain a microprocessor, which means an oscilator (sp?) running at a few MHz.
I'm not claiming that these people actually experience actual symptoms, but the facts you mention are inaccurate. It would be proper to remain open to the possibility, the human body is a n amzingly complex machine, which probably still contains many surprises. Until properly conducted experiments show conclusive evidence, don't jump the gun.
On the subject of whether the ban is proper, I would have to say no. A faraday cage would probably be a better solution of the sufferers. Even if it's only as a placebo.
Alex
>> Has anyone told these folks that they are constantly bathed in microwave radiation from the Big Bang?
Haven't you figured out that we EVOLVED with that background radiation, but we DIDN'T with "human made" electromagnatic fields?
Apparently, you can't make the jump in logic to see that there could quite possibly be a REAL health issue here, pity that so many people are so CLOSED MINDED and "Knee Jerk Reactionary" to issues that they are unfamilier with.
>> They should move to another universe, provided they aren't already living in one...
I'll bet your forefathers were there telling Columbus that he'd sail off the edge of the earth too!
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
Funny that you mention double-blind tests. According to the article, Firstenburg rambles around with a carload of equipment to detect the things that are causing him such pain and discomfort. You'd think he wouldn't need elaborate sensors to detect that he has a headache. You don't see people with carpal tunnel problems checking levels taped to their forearms before deciding their wrists hurt.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
...There's more evidence of harm coming from pesticides used on crops, yet I don't see them shutting down any of the wineries in the area.
But what's the worse that could happen? So you can't use your cell phone. You'll just have to go to the nearby town of Boonville and use the buckwaller in front of the Horn of Zeese Don't forget to bring quarters.
Shameless plug for my photos on Flickr
I'd like to see how these people react in a thunderstorm. If they're really as bothered by radio waves as they say, their heads should explode. More likely they don't even react.
>>I remember in physics class in high school, we figured out the strength of the EM field around a high voltage wire. We calculated that even as close at 50 feet (like wires suspended in the air), the earth's natural field was like 100 times stronger.
So just what does that prove? You have ONE data point in an issue that you know nothing else about, and yet you fool yourself in to thinking that you know it all, and judge others based on ONE data point?.
Humans DIDN'T evolve with all the additional EMF's that "modern" society seems to be "addicted" to. Yet, you have ONE data point, and you know it all?
Next time you laugh at those "poor crazy EMF people", you best be looking in the mirror, because YOU are the joke.
>>Since then, I've always viewed these claims of EM radiation problems with a skeptical eye.
Uh... it appears that you are deluding yourself about being "skeptical", based on your closing statement.
>>My own suspicions is that this guy had a few too many REMs to the skull from his dental X-Rays and is a candidate for therapy. :-D
Oh, and here you go, totally contradicting yourself. Or are only dental X-Rays bad for us, and NOT all of the other EMF's in our environment?
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
Infrasound, sounds below the normal range of human hearing, present a small, but real threat many people. Infrasound can greatly effect one's mood and health.
Low frequency sounds can travel thousands of miles and is used for military communications. In some areas, such infrasounds can be EXTREMELY LOUD...some sources of very intense infrasound include manufacturing, some vehicles, long-range military transmission equipment, and of course various natural sources including thunderstorms, earthquakes and volcanoes - and according to current theory, infrasound partly explains the bizarre behavior of some animals before an earthquake, etc.
EMFs are everywhere and if the people in the article really are sensitive to them, then how can they have electricity in their house or use the telephone?? Electrical systems produce a large amount of EMFs and thus I would assume these folks would all live in candle-lit houses or at minimum live in houses with highly shielded electrical systems costing tens of thousands...but instead it appears they live in ordinary homes.
Anyways, in my view, these folks ought to worry more about infrasound than EMFs.
Great, another hypochondriac Jew from New York trying to change the world. This guy is a nut, and if he was broke, he'd be another toothless guy wandering around with his aluminum foil hat rambling about the Computer God's Worldwide Overall Plan and brainwash antenna loops. This guy needs psychological help, not medical.
Oh and if you're really curious, check out a guy who started the whole paranoid-schizophrenic luddite thing: Francis E. Dec, Esq. A good read even if you're not interested in Feinberg or whatever the hell his name is.
With all of that RF floating around the den, I'm going to die. I'll probably have a stroke before I finish this and click "submit."
Goodbye, cruel microwaved worl...NO CARRIER
I'll be a lot more impressed if you step up to defend Jerry Falwell the next time he is mocked on Slashdot. (Not that he doesn't deserve it)
I believe that you need to calm down. I was pointing out some relatively minor calculations, not one datapoint, we had done in physics that seemed to cast some doubt on the claims of these individuals, which do seem to be a bit odd. So, yes, I am quite a bit skeptical and I remain so despite your frothing at the mouth reply. I also did not claim to know it all. There have been several replies quite rightly pointing out some pertinent facts that I had not considered such as the change in the flux.
"Oh, and here you go, totally contradicting yourself. Or are only dental X-Rays bad for us, and NOT all of the other EMF's in our environment?"
That comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously... well at least not totally. Perhaps he has a mental disorder; I am being serious about that. As far as I can see, no one has seriously questioned this man's mental health, he has simply gone around and gotten signatures based on his beliefs on a subject for which his credentials are dubious at best. As for X-Rays etc... they're close range. The intensity of an EMF decreases quite rapidly the further away from the source.
Humorless sig goes here.
We in Australia will take your California flakes and let them have a bit of outback all their own -- but you get our legislators.
Deal?
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
Let me go to that town, i will bring a microwave, and strap someones head in it... then we'll see if emf is dangerous to health...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I see this whole thing as about science getting a bad reputation (often due to misinformation eg. "smoking won't kill you", or drastic and incorrect simplification by elements of the media), and being opposed at every turn by the superstitious.
I would not live under an 11kV power line, but wouln't mind living fifty metres away, because I know that the intensity of the electric field drops away rapidly with distance. Some people would object to it being within sight. A lot of people fall into the trap of sorting things into "bad" and "good", without remembering that something as simple as fire can be both, depending on where it is.
Think of it as evolution in action.
Display some adaptability.
All RF with wavelengths less than about one-tenth the gap of the chicken wire...
Should read:
All RF with wavelengths greater than 10 times
the gap of the chicken wire
Certainly 60hz would be blocked but microwaves wouldn't be....
It's not just the strength of the field that matters (directly), it's the delta in field strength between the ends of the bulb.
At the same field strength, the larger source is further away and the field delta is lower.
Thus, the Earth's EM field could be vastly stronger, but still not cause a bulb to glow as brightly as a power line. (Unless the bulb stretched from here to the moon...)
However, the human body is likely affected in somewhat the same way as a bulb, so it's not totally silly to think that EM from a power line might cause some weird effects.
The people advocating this would get a lot farther if they didn't seem to be crystal-healing, acupuncture using, ginko-biloba eating freaks without a clue about the scientific method (or any discoveries since the 1920s for that matter.) But try to bring up double-blind studies with them and you'll get a rant about the ego of western science, etc, etc...
Since you claim to be a Ph.D...
If the Earth's magnetic field alternated its polarity 60 times a second, do you think ALL of the flourescent lighting in the world would glow?
From what I understand, from an article in Discover magazine years back (I know... biased and questionable... but...) which discussed magnetic fields around high-voltage power lines, and also electric blankets, the chief problem is the frequency of the field in question. The article states that the danger from a D.C. current is negligable no matter the voltage, but that 60 (and 50) hz A.C. can cause damage, in theory.
Me personally, I like electricity. A.C., D.C.... doesn't matter, just as long as my gadgets run.
Oh, and as far as I am concerned, it's not theft of service to tap inductively into high voltage lines that run over your property... It should be considered payment for the risk of cancer that some people think is there.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
This is IMPORTANT INFORMATION which should be DISSEMINATED WIDELY for the GOOD OF ALL MANKIND!
Detecting psychoceramics 101; the more ALL CAPITALS they use, the more likely it is that they are nutbars.
We are in a desperate race between Stupidity and Transcendance; Don't pick the wrong side.
I lived and grew up there, and went to high school in Mendocino. (Hi Bob and Dylan!)
It's true that the village has successfully kept cellphone towers out. (It's not a town, as it's not incorporated.) The whole area is one big dead zone. Much of the entire county is strictly analog, anyway -- it seems to have been passed by when digital service was brought to other areas. Instead of talking on a cellphone, there are other fine activities to do in Mendocino County.
It's a small area dependent on tourism. One of the major draws is that it is a place to get away from all the hustle and bustle of larger cities. The Historical (some say Hysterical) Review Board strictly enforces the cellphone ban and other ordinances that seem silly, such as not allowing any remodeling that changes the look of the village! It is a unique area very popular with artists and hippies, and has a completely different culture than what most Slashdotters are used to.
But the electronics lab and computer lab in the high school kicks ass :-)
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
Alright, these people in Medocino are plainly deluded - but a claim there's never been any hard evidence that low intensity radio waves harm anyone skips an important issue - how could there be? We've been saturated in them for the last 50 or so years and by the time anyone thought of asking what the long term effects of this might be it was too late - you can't have a study like this without a control group and no control group is possible. And putting people in a radio free room and seeing if they can predict bursts of energy aimed at them only proves that people can't decect bursts of energy aimed at them. It does nothing to prove or disprove what the long term psychological or physical effects may or may not be.
Let's look at some other things that have happened for the last 100 years. There are increased rates of depression, autism, schizophrenia, cancer and birth defects. The population of songbirds and amphibians has decreased remarkably. Violence has increased and so has fear. Is all of that due to radio waves? I really doubt it - one can find a lot of alternate explanations. Could some of it be due to the increase in radio waves?
How could we possibly know? There are too many variables between the world of 100 years ago and now to say. If there is any place where one can find a group of people to study who've lived a modern lifestyle and avoided radio wave effects, (if any), I don't know about it. In short, this may be an issue that we are incapable of understanding scientifically with the tools we currently have. But just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it can't exist or can't affect us.
Where does that leave us? Pretty much in the dark on this issue. We can prove or disprove effects of higher levels of this radiation, but the long term effects of lower levels are unknown. Forget about the people with their tinfoil hats in Medocino; there are valid reasons to investigate this issue, if we can find a way to do so. Scoffing at the people with extreme opinions is not going to resolve the question. And part of having an a scientific mindset is recognizing a good question when one sees one, not just attributing the issue to hysteria or paranoia.
For the record, I don't believe I have any conditions caused by radio wave exposure, and don't have an informed opinion on what the effects of long term radiation might be. Neither, as far as I know, does anyone else. Neither the proposition "radio waves are doing things to us" or "radio waves aren't doing thing to us" are provable. A true skeptic has to treat both as dubious statements. I'm a little disappointed that no one replying to this article has taken this point of view.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,49842, 00.html
...That's the only place these kooks are going to get any relief. Oh wait, the earth itself generates a magnetic field. Maybe these folks are the secret grandchildren of Molemen, surfacing once to take a bride with a human woman, impregnate her, then descend into the caves again.
Well, it's possible. If one completely insane guy can convince a town to cut off radio communications, anything is possible.
For transmission to be powerful enough to work, it has to be powerful enough to effect. We (scientists) _know_ we don't know what the effects are. Clearly the effects are below a certain threshold for the majority of the population, but populations tend towards normal distributions. This means that some (many) people are going to be adversly effected, perhaps to the point of being genetically selected against. If we over regulate, does it then become "unnatural selection?"
>>I believe that you need to calm down.
OK (Big toke of Mendo's finest.), I'll agree... sorry I took it so personal (But it IS.).
>>I was pointing out some relatively minor calculations, not one datapoint, we had done in physics that seemed to cast some doubt on the claims of these individuals, which do seem to be a bit odd.
That's hardly definitive, and certainly not enough information for a layman to go around questioning anyone's mental state.
>>So, yes, I am quite a bit skeptical and I remain so despite your frothing at the mouth reply.
Yes, I was wrong to attack you, I apoligize.
>>I also did not claim to know it all. There have been several replies quite rightly pointing out some pertinent facts that I had not considered such as the change in the flux.
OK, but you still seem closed minded to the ** possibility ** that someone CAN be electrically sensitive, and not be "mentally unstable".
>
>>That comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously... well at least not totally.
Oh, I see, that explains everything.
>>Perhaps he has a mental disorder; I am being serious about that. As far as I can see, no one has seriously questioned this man's mental health,
I don't know where you live, but in every town that I've ever lived in, almost everyone knows who the so-called "crazies" are, and this guy isn't one of them. Yes, I live just up the road from Mendocino, or as I prefer to call it, Spendocino. I'm also not in any way associated with this guy though, because I feel it's a losing battle.
And seriously, have you noticed how you deal with ideas that seem "odd" to you? You question the proponent's state of mental health, before you question that your beliefs could be mistaken, or incomplete. That seems really odd to me.
>>he has simply gone around and gotten signatures based on his beliefs on a subject for which his credentials are dubious at best.
You say: "his credentials are dubious at best." Really? The man has written a book, how many books have you written? I'm much more likely to believe someone who has gone to all the trouble to research and write a book about something, than someone who hasn't.
>>As for X-Rays etc... they're close range. The intensity of an EMF decreases quite rapidly the further away from the source.
Again, you miss the big picture. You are working within a closed framework of ideas, accepting those ideas that seem to fit, and discarding those that don't. Even though, they may be completely valid ideas, even if they don't fit into your existing body of knowledge.
And thanks for not flaming me back, I owe you one.
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
you are an ASSHOLE - why don't you move to Afghanistan?
Oh no, actually, ANGRY and FRUSTRATED is more like it.
But I know you just said that to distract everyone from your own psychosis.
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
The guy's a math major with a minor in physics ...
Yeah, so these guys really don't have to have a town or their own ... they should just keep really really still.
I believe you are a wanker, with no idea of physics other than the disinformation you managed to pick up at high school
It is generally thought that peanut allergy is not genetic... & instead caused by parents feeding their children peanut butter before the child's immune system has developed.
Of course you could argue genes are what caused the parent to feed PB to a toddler, but for all you know the kid could be adopted, and be genetically free of the adoptive parents' taint!
What you entirely neglect to consider are the dangers inherent to your proposed therapy. Why, millions of people may have already died from dihydrogen monoxide poisoning!!
More information can be found at http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
It seems that someone who says that the world is better off not having 24/7 access to the internet/phone system is as crazy as someone saying that OSX and Apple is a viable alternative to WinTel?!?
I don't like big words..., does that make me anti-semantic?
My house was built in 1956, with that newfangled prefab sheet plaster -- its backing is 0.5" gauge expanded metal mesh, grounded willy-nilly where it touches the electrical outlet boxes (since they use the metal outlet box, not a 3rd wire, as their ground point). Most radios, and my newer TV, get absolutely ZERO reception indoors.
:)
(An old hi-fi radio and an old TV both have decent reception in here. Must be some defect in my chicken wire.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Arguing that "EMR occurs naturally, so induced EMR is OK" is somewhat sophomoric. Natural EMR is considered "noise" in the design of a transmission system, and it is something that that has to be substantially overcome for the system to be successful. Transmission typically consists of a sustained carrier wave that is modulated in some way. For instance, the American Mobile Phone Standard uses frequency modulation over a 30 khz bandwidth, with about 1,000 bands per cell. A signal to noise ratio of greater than 15 db is needed to actually hear anything useful. What this means practically is that when measuring the sum of the natural noise, the man made noise, and the transmission signal, the signal has to be about 32 times more powerful to be useful -- at the receiver end, with an inverse square falloff. There are differences besides power. For instance, any radiation received from cosmic sources, including the sun, will be coherent, whereas most induced radiation will disperse radially. Also, the sun sets. Qualitatively, it may be the difference between listening to the wind blow and listening to roadwork. If we could "hear" it, that is.
The human body is full of dipoles. We know that in general we are extremely sensitive to EMR; the only other ways we interact with the universe are through direct pressure and chemical sampling. But we cannot listen to the radio without having one. There may be some effect, cumulative over time perhaps, that causes slight neurophysical problems... the fact is we do not yet know. My own experience is that there is a quality to the silence in South Point on the Big Island that surpasses that on the Pacific Crest. But I cannot prove it -- it's just my imagination being affected by all this EMI.
People on Slashdot are victims.
You were modded down to 'troll' for giving your honest opinion in a free debate zone. It's more than just a bad mod; it's the result of culture-wide thought conditioning. (I'd call it mind-control, but too many idiots here would assume that I meant short term, electrode in the neck bullshit. Mind control happens over the long term.)
The fact is, Slashdotters are part of the geek-elite: tech-geeks are prime targets because even though they are only pawns they remain in many ways the engineers and keepers of today's accepted reality. We make the machines go; and the nature of the machines determines our level of enslavement.
As such, you can always count on the brain-mush factor in people. Slashdot is living proof. Tell them it's not 'cool' to believe in Cold Fusion, or what have you, and the low-egos around here will drop the idea like a hot rock in order to jump back into the safety of popular concensus and the modified truths sold to them since birth. --Why do you think we were fed so much 'science' learning channel crap when we were kids? --I'll tell you why: It's because kids are easy to program. Most of the people here will argue till they're blue in the face to defend their childhood conditioning, which makes them no better than kids brought up in hard-core Christian communities. They insist that they choose through free will, but the truth is they've been brainwashed since birth.
-Fantastic Lad
You say: "his credentials are dubious at best." Really? The man has written a book, how many books have you written? I'm much more likely to believe someone who has gone to all the trouble to research and write a book about something, than someone who hasn't.
David Icke has had several books published, but this doesn't disguise the fact that he is still a barking mad loon!
Or do you believe him too?
"Information wants to be paid"
Well, flaming doesn't get anywhere (ie; the AC who called me a wanker). I'm not completely close minded to the possibilities that some people might be more sensitive to EMF than others... there is a fair amount of evidence, although not conclusive, that say, using a Cell phone and what not can increase chances for brain tumors (this is just an example). So, it is safe to say that EMF can and does alter certain aspects of living tissue. Drawing this further, it is possible that some people may have some sort of sensitivity to this. Now, as to questioning this man's mental health, I still believe it's not an altogether bad thing. He is going around and essentially forcing people in this town to go without cell phones, a radio antenna, etc... yeah, they're lucky to have a house over their head and food to eat compared with a large part of the world. More to the point, there _are_ cases, much more documented about people being crazy and imagining all sorts of nasty things happening to them... much more than sensitivity to EMF. Now, if I were in charge, and I'm not, but hypothetically speaking, I would have a three-pronged approach, 1) verify his sanity, 2) conduct tests with him. He should at least be willing to assent to some blind tests in order to justify these claims. If he is truly physically sensitive to EMF, then that's easily tested. 3) Look into other similar claims and see what experts say. Am I being logical in this?
/. and argue about EMF sensitivity when I should be doing other work. Point is, I don't walk around yelling and streetlights. :-)
:-)
Note: Mental disorders don't have to mean 'some crazies' as you put it. I take medication myself for depression and I'm somewhat normal other than I read
Now, as to my own credentials, no, I am not a physics major. I did have a lot of interest in the subject, but did not pursue it in college. My knowledge is rusty, but that one thing (among others) we talked about in my class stood out. Is it definitive, nope. Course not. Other people have pointed out the changing flux and other phenomena I hadn't thought of. I do actually have a few publications. Not books, mind you. Yet. They aren't publications in this particular area; they have to deal with databases, solid modeling, and graph theoretical indexes and are in well-refereed research pubs. I'm not bragging, but I am putting this out so that you are clear that I'm not some rube. Although, sometimes I go off half-cocked and wind up eating a bit of crow.
The basic thing is, I have a big problem with people who go around and make life difficult for other people with dubious reasons. I favor a more pragmatic approach rather than automatic acquiesence to an individual's, as of now, dubious claims.
Humorless sig goes here.
Makes you wonder..
"There is a terrorist behind every bush"
build a large faraday cage around the entire US. I bet it would be like y2k all over again. (seriously though. could you put a drain on the RF output of a satellite from earth as to reduce it's transmitting power? Hrm.... muhahahha)
the important difference is that earth's magnetic field is static, while the one generated by high voltage lines is not. 50-60 Hz might not seem like much, but it creates extemely weak electrical fields anyway (smth to the tune of curl E = -1/c dH/dt ) and those induce currents in your skin. earth's magnetic field never does that, plus we had some time (10^9 years) to adapt to it, while AC fields are very new (10^2 years) and long term effects are largely unknown. in my personal experience, having lived once very close to high voltage lines for a month or so, they are certainly quite uncomforatble. if not for em emissions, they certainly produce a lot of mechanical vibration and noise. cell phones are much worse than any of that. i did some experiments and the net result is that talking on a cell phone is like having your ear hard pressed against the closed door of the working microwave oven. yeah, it's probably nothing but look at that chicken inside
I was gonna maintain accounts, but then I got high
/usr/lib, and I know why...
...
I was lying on the couch after I got high,
Now my users can't login, and I know why...
because I got high, 'cause I got high
'cause I got high.
I was gonna upgrade Veritas, but then I got high
The disk groups didn't import, cause I was high.
Now I'm calling support and I know why...
because I got high, 'cause I got high
'cause I got high.
I was gonna restore from tape, but then I got high
I started playing Ape Escape, cause I was high.
Now, the users are moaning and I know why...
'cause I got high, 'cause I got high,
'cause I got high.
I was gonna rebuild my Kernel, 'cause I was high
I was gonna convert to a filesystem that journalled, cause I was high.
Now I'm reinstalling from CD, and I know why...
'cause I got high, 'cause I got high,
'cause I got high.
I was gonna clean up the disk, 'cause I was high
I was gonna delete every unneeded file, 'cause I was high.
I deleted
'cause I was high, 'cause I was high,
'cause I was high
I was gonna edit cron on 100 machines, 'cause I was high.
I was gonna do it from the trusted host, when I was high.
Now I broke cron on 100 machines, and I know why...
'cause I was high, 'cause I was high,
'cause I was high.
I was gonna work on service tickets, but I was high.
I started surfing slashdot and fark cause I was high.
Now my shift's almost over and I know why...
'cause I got high, 'cause I got high,
'cause I got high
I was gonna complie e2fsutils, cause I was high
I was gonna do it earlier that day, before I was high
Now I've got a core-dumping fsck, and I know why...
'cause I was high, 'cause I was high,
'cause I was high
I was gonna build a server, 'cause I was high
I was gonna put windows on it
.... nah, I wasn't that high.
Check out this article on Quackwatch. It contains a detailed discussion of the studies that have been done on this and many of the research papers cited are available on line and linked to.
Just because they haven't been declared dangerous does not mean that they are safe. Roller-blading behind a mini-van on the freeway at 75 miles per hour has not been declared dangerous. It must be safe, right?
There are a number of studies on both sides in both issues and I know the jury is still out on breast implants. I'm not sure that the power line issue is one that anyone is looking at except for the owners of the power lines who need to commision studies to show how safe they are.
On breast implants, it seems obvious to me that the introduction of foreign matter surgically implanted into the body is not a good idea. Whether the final studies determine it to be "safe" or not I would certainly advise people to wait until the studies are completed and I'd still advise anyone I like to not have the implants except as a form of reconstructive surgery.
Out of curiousity, how do you know that high voltage power lines do not cause cancer? Do you live near high voltage power lines and not have cancer? or have you studied all the studies and made an intelligent determination based on all the facts?
Coding Blog
Maybe this is a reason to pursue development of an all-optical solar-powered computer.
If they want to get rid of all EM radiation there, they would also have to live in total darkness, as visible light is also EM.
in a sense, "they" have been doing exactly that for thousands of years, to only temporary benefit. in recent history, the severely limited powers of the US federal government were designed by political geniuses who wished people, cities, states, i.e. "local" societies, to preserve near-total self-determination as long as they universally honored the basic political/moral freedoms enumerated in the first 8 amendments.
now that the federales operate without limit, americans, too, are beginning to face the question, "where can i live a reasonable life according to my principles without tyranny?"
as waco amply demonstrated, if their way of life was viewed as a threat to the way of life that sustains the government, they indeed would need to buy an island somewhere outside of governmental influence [unlike colonialists throughout time who staked claims solely through military superiority, there is no longer any usable land that doesn't necessitate "purchase" from some person or group].
historically speaking, however, there is no evidence that the protection of a new frontier lasts more than a few, short generations.
in the future, anyone wishing to create and preserve what they believe to be a morally, technologically, or medically pristine community will need to either have a few billion dollars with which to "buy an island somewhere" [not to mention an elite force of diplomat-lobbyists skilled in international law to protect the commune's right to exist, or at least to convince other governments to provide that protection], or they will have to somehow convince their federal establishments to cede regulatory powers back to local establishments. of course, such an arrangement has its own set of problems, the most important of which being that governments never voluntarily cede to civilians powers they have taken for themselves.
buti nga
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
If the amount of lead that leached into the water were at least equal to the amount that a kid gets eating paint flakes, then I'd say there's the potential for damage. I have no physical measurements on either of these. But I'd imagine it would take a while for enough oxides to cover the inside of the pipes to prevent most leaching.
L. Ron Hubbard has written a book too... :)
Here's what's really going on. First of all, all of you who argue the merits of the science miss the point. Arthur is a con man. A very smart one, with an ego the size of Jim Jones' (another former Mendocino County resident)
He can scramble the science because he knows that many many people aren't educated enough to be able to tell the difference and he gets enough of them. He doesn't care how prestigious a scientist or institution debunks him!
Arthur has tasted the sweetness of celebrity and can't stop. He's living like a rock star up here, with adoring fans like Christy Wagner swooning over his every pronoucement and everyone else shaking with fear. Reporters call him up to ask his opinion and get a quote from him! He's basking in the warm glow of Being Someone. So, here's the scoop - He's just an ego-maniac! As for his contention that they've saved Mendocino as a wireless free zone, that's crap - all he's done is stop the local school-owned ISP from selling wireless, which is a pity, because their profits go towards free or greatly reduced internet access for all Mendocino students and teachers. The commercial companies are signing people up left and right. There's wireless all over Mendocino!
Here's a little history on the sick teacher Christy Wagner. She got the job a couple of years ago. It wasn't working out but the school was reluctant to fire her. Over the summer she decided she wanted to be a writer but couldn't figure out how to live off a writer's salary. So, a couple of sessions with Arthur on how to play the disability game, and Voila! she's suddenly sooooo sick....and on Medical leave. The School Board approves it so they can get rid of a bad teacher, but the taxpayers have to pay her salary.
It's just a scam and pretty much everyone knows it.
Mendocino is where people move to when they find Berekely too conservative. There's a lot of trust fund ex-hippies living up here, and they don't want people who might not be so left wing moving into the community and "taking" it over.
Where I live, the standards for city water are HIGHER than those for bottled water. Hmmmm...
He has, and you and your post shall be smitten for using his name in vain ;)
I think Mendocino also allows anyone to grow upto 100k worth of weed on their property...who needs wireless when you can get really baked.
Nah...I was careful to leave out any disparaging remarks...unless they want to read something into the smiley....
I may just be biased (Can't even hear MYSELF over the hum of all this equipment) but, do these people sound like complete blithering idiots to anyone else?
Tin-foil hat brigade indeed.
I don't think the Amish would take them, these people would probably start complaning that proximity to hay or horses or something causes them illness. If anything, I'd say it's all the BULLSHIT.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*