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Free Wireless Networks at Airports
WallytheWalrus writes "Today's Minneapolis Star-Tribune is carrying an article about the installation of a wireless network throughout Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, the first of five such airports across the nation to get a uniform wireless network system. The system, which cost only $250,000 to install, will be free to business travellers passing through the airport (who have the correct hardware), and available through a number of kiosks throughout the airport. One can only hope this is the first step towards bigger and bolder public wireless network projects."
the Austin airport also HAD a free wireless network.. but because of the .com fallout, they started charging like $6.95 a day or something... It's sometimes worth if you're sitting there waiting for your flight..
ChiefArcher
That way the feds can track kidnapperguy when he checks his email on holiday.
LAN Party in Terminal 8b!
Great idea but what are they gonna do for security. Last time I check all the security for wireless networking sucked... BAD. The only encryption methods that have been heavily implemented are old and easy to break exept the one apple JUST released for 128 bit encyption for use with airport.
Of all the shit they built at that airport and the parking/construction hell it created, this is the least they could do for those of us with nothing else to do while we're grabbing our ankles for NWA.
Any mention of security practices? Are they running any sensitive data through the same infrastructure? With all the news about 802.11 security issues especially at airports this seems to be of utmost priority with all the terrorists running around.
Mad Apple promotion? Or useful technology?
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
My thoughts anyway..
HEY WAIT A MINUTE, perhaps they'll be doing this and gathering marketing data? Could be easily done, and profitable over a 5 year timespan.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
Fight Spammers!
In other news, 80% of hotels near airports have been shut down shut down due to lack of interest.
Airlines are cheap-ass companies. Next thing you know, when an Airline moves its own computer terminals, they'll say "Hey, we don't have to run any wire, we can just piggy-back on this wireless thing.."
This being the community of paranioa, need I say more?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Let's suppose you provided freely accessible wireless network infrastructure to anonymous users, what would be the legal implications of such an endeavour? Would you become liable for damage created with the help of your network? What if you provided no access to the internet? Would you still be liable? Is there a way around these problems? I guess once again lawyers may be the biggest hurdle before public networks become a reality.
OK, here goes my precious karma ;-) but the only thought that came to my mind was:
That's nice. now hire more and better train your security people. It won't matter what you need to do on your laptop if the airport blows up.
Sent from your iPad.
a whole new pr()nduit...
Regardless, pretty cool of them for implementing it.
Read my keyboard review.
This throws back to that other story about how airports are using unsecured wireless networks to check baggage at the sidewalk.
Who wants to bet they're not going to have the security they need to protect themselves because they go with the lowest contract bid?
Scenario:
Felon A puts semtex in a bag, and checks it at the curb, but never gets on the plane. Felon B is inside the airport and reassigns that bag to a passenger who DID get on the plane. Since the passengers and bags now match they won't do a cargo search for the unclaimed baggage.
Boom.
That sounds really great-- but I have a hard time believing that something this useful would be that cheap (or free!). Not that it couldn't be, but I think someone's going to see an opportunity to make a big profit off this and capitalize on that. Just like the way that companies are attempting (with varying levels of success) to make money from the free parts of the Internet (like domain names).
I'd love to be proven wrong though.
mark
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
The system, which cost only $250,000 to install
At $250,000, sounds like it's far from free to me!
I'm not afraid of falling, it's the sudden stop at the end that frightens me.
With the ever-growing use of wireless links for IP data, how much more difficult will it become to track down abusers?
If I sat in an airport with a laptop, I could use the (surely) fat pipe of the building to DoS some poor person, and who would catch me? The user reports to his isp, who gives it to the airport's upstream provider who give it to airport personnel. By that time, I'm way the hell out of there.
Of course, I'm using "I" in this post hypothetically - I hate DoS and the packet kiddies that do it, but what security is being put in place to prevent it?
--
grep "xercist"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A transparent firewall blocking non-standard services might be useful, but keep IPSec, POP/SMTP, etc.
sulli
RTFJ.
until l33t w4r3z d00d #1853259 fires up his IRC client and starts surfing #isos-R-us. Guess what happens? Joe Email-Checking Buisiness man notices that he's getting .001Kb/sec, and pummels #1853259, until the *other* guys on #isos-R-us come on over from the other side of the airport...
:)
People are human. Lotsa bandwith+free+no accountability=ISO FRENZY!!!
This
Why go all the way to the airport when you can get plenty of wireless coverage for next to nothing* (here in Sydney at least)
*conscience not included
*** I am the real stylewagon
I have been a huge fan of public access to 802.11 devices connected to the internet. With enough access points at high-density points (airports, malls, coffee shops, etc...), the system could become almost as transparent as the cell-phone system is today, and free at that!
I heartily encourage everyone with a home network and highspeed internet to purchase an 802.11 access point and place it by a window. Just make sure that you place the access point is on the external side of your firewall.
I find free wireless networks outside of most businesses :)
There's two ways they could do this:
1. They could make it cheap, and ensure that just about anyone at an airport can get minimal 'net access, or
2. They could make it expensive, and ensure that high-class business-types can get a fat pipe.
Of course, the OPTIMAL solution would be to do both: Rent a low-bandwidth node for $5.00/hour, or a high-bandwidth node for $0.25/minute.
If they choose to only provide an expensive connection for corporate use, though, I'm not sure it'll be a step in the right direction.
-Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
Vancouver International Airport (YVR) has had a Nokia system installed for some time now. It works very well and rates have varied from free (on trials) to 9.95$ CDN / day (ISTR). Hopefully this sort of thing will catch on because it is a very nice service to have while you wait for your flight. Especially these days, where you are potentially spending several hours at the airport prior to your flight.
(P.S. - Hey Ashcroft, seal off the borders to fix the problem first, you dumbass. Quit treating us common folk like common criminals.)
With all the "terrorism" buzzword going around, this really could help out airlines. (or atleast, the coffee shops in and around the airports.)
;) Future expansion plans in Detroit have almost left me drooling. Glad to see more companys jumping on the starbucks bandwagon, they can't lose.
It looks like a very cool hookup (with a name like iPass, and with a 250,000 bill to foot, i'ld hope so
--
can't fight against the youth.
The Vancouver International airport in British Columbia, Canada, has had this for over a year. Might even be two if I remember correctly.
This would honestly be a great convience for me, I spend a lot of time waiting in airports (up to 10 hours a week), and if I could get some decent Internet access I could be more productive and not to mention much less bored. Also it would be nice to get something back for all my airport fees and the outrageous rates they charge to park.
One problem though, anyone considered security? I personally have enough sense to have some rudimentary filter software on my company laptop (ip-chains), but this would be a lot of exsposure for MANY MANY companies, as most of the people travelling with laptops are NON-Tech savvy pointy haired manager/exec types. Anyone have thoughts on that?
Wireless internet services in aitports isn't new!!! CPH in Copenhagen, Denmark installed it several month ago. Shape up guys! Stay alert!
Some airports already have the infrastructure that they use for baggage checks.
Now every run down to you nearest money grubbing airport and eavesdrop... err... I mean connect to the net and browse slashdot.
--
brr its cold up here, some want to pass me a polar bear skin?
Big mistakes for terrorists:
Asking airport officials how to log on to your "al-Qaida Online" account over the wireless link.
Complaining that you can't talk to your "buddy" Osama even though he's on your buddy list.
Receiving and watching a Quicktime video with instructions for committing a terrorist act -- while sitting in the boarding area.
Having your laptop announce "You've Got Jihad!" while in the terminal.
Looking at the bad side:
If I were ever trying to launch some virus or whatnot using one of these open networks would be just the place were all they would have to so was probably drive through the drop off section...
Anyone else see this as a problem?
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
The number of people who leave open shares on their Wintel laptops is ridiculous, as they are used to being behind NAT firewalls and other hard-shelled security, deep in the corporate intranet. Then they move these absolutely defenseless laptops into a completely unsecured network via an Orinoco WaveLAN card--Hilarity ensues.
A public wireless network with a revolving roster of addled sales execs is a veritable shooting gallery, the proverbial barrel full of fish!
Anyway, I will not be surprised when suits rush back to the home office after a stopover in Minneapolis, their laptops having mysteriously come down with the clap.
This happened in the Louisville, KY Airport back in May 2001... here's the article.
Curious that this is happening in some of the smaller airports first. I'd have expected San Francisco's airport to be an early adopter. They certainly spent enough on construction costs to throw in a few wireless routers around without anyone noticing. Still, at least it's getting out there somewhere.
- Just recently, after September 11th, Congress gave the major
airlines a gift for $20 million to compensate them for their lack of
profitability - a streak that started around the middle of 2000.
- The FAA has only one enforcement action against the airlines: the
removal of government subsidies. That's right - an airline can opt
out of the FAA's air traffic control system, refuse to insure luggage, and
allow smoking in domestic flights. But the consequences they would suffer
- a termination of government funding - would keep them from competing with
their socialized rivals.
- When airlines are forced to make changes (safety/security improvements,
etc.) the government automatically pays for 75% of the cost, minimum. No
act of Congress or approval of any sort is needed before our tax money is
put to this use.
- Airline employees are technically classified as government workers and
are subject to Federal hiring and retention procedures (read: affirmative
action). That is why minority pilots and flight attendants are so
commonplace, despite the fact that 96% of flight school graduates are
Caucasian.
I have studied the travel industry for over 13 years and have come to the conclusion that it is the most crooked, corrupt industry in America. They should be returning the money to the taxpayers' pockets, not buying 802.11b repeaters for passengers' web surfing amusement. As somebody who rarely flies, I am offended that my money is being wasted in this fashion.--rwatson
Terrorists could use this to organize attacks against us!! We'll have to make it illegal to use encryption to make the world safe!!
Seriously though, using it "to access corporate networks and the Internet at high speeds." [from the article] How am I supposed to use it to access my company's network without VPN software? Aren't privacy right-fatalistic in the name of security Americans against "secret communications? Not trying to troll, but this is something to think about.
Middle Post!
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Well, what about it? How different is wireless from an airport different from that shared ethernet in the airport hotel? Or having folks check in from those ubiquitious web terminals in airports that half of the time have cache's full of info?
Yes, it is possible that sitting there in the terminal your stream will get intercepted. So understand/teach others that these aren't secure, that pluggin in in *any* public pace isn't gonna be secure and certainly not at a client's office etc. Use a tunnel back to the home/corporate proxy server or don't go near any important content and *don't* use any passwords.
But don't go getting all upset of wireless and airports, it's not really different from all of the others.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Perhaps this is just a strategy of dealing with the increased delay the FAA is forcing on the airlines?
Let's hope that they've engineered a relatively foolproof way to ensure that user data (or their own data, in some cases; one airport was using unencrypted 802.11b to exchange sensitive data) cannot be sniffed by other people over the air.
On a barely related note, I've heard that most "Wal-Mart Supercenters" (bleh, I hate that store) connect to their gasoline stations via 802.11b to transfer information.
Do you like German cars?
I stoped at London Heathrow a few weeks ago and they have these "XPOD" kiosks or something similar, well they run windows 98 and connect with wireless. I pulled out my NAI Sniffer and found the ip address range 10.10.10.x/24 (if I remeber) then I assosiated myself to the network and found that all the kiosk machines have the 'c' drive shared out - full accsess! and NO PASSWORD. At least the internet connection was a bit more secure, they went threw a proxy server and when I tried to brouse the internet from my laptop all I got was the xpod logo.
.cap files. kruczkowski @ hotmail.com
JKF at New York has some small network, but nothing intresting and no internet.
Frankfurt (Germany) has also some network but also nothing fun, all I see is novell broadcasts.
If anyone want, I still have the NAI
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
I have been reading about everyone screaming 'ohh my god! its wireless! its not secure!' or 'the script kiddies are going to go nuts!' You _CAN_ secure this and make sure it is only used by 'good' people (i.e. not the #isosRus user) by simply only allowing IPSec connections out to the world this pretty much elimiates the script kiddie wishing to use 'mad bandwidth' to DoS down someone else and because all the users will be connecting to the rest of the world over a VPN to there office you dont really have to worry about them attacking things from the airport network. Another point of view would be to require users to 'check-in' by setting up a DHCP server that hands out 'dead ips' that can only access one web page. That web page would be a registration page where the fills in the blanks (MAC address, cell phone number, home address, etc..) then a back end script creates a reservation or some other method to privide a 'live' ip for that user to access the outside world. Said airport might also consider (if said airport is not blocking everything but lets say port 80, 443, and IPSec) going with the transparent proxy server that one of the other users talked about. Said airport could also use the customers airline ticket SN# to track the person. You could goto great trouble to attempt to curve the abuse by a few people.. Or you could watch for abuse and disable that MAC address on the network. At any rate. Cheers.
Real men don't use GUIs.
Maybe I didn't read the article too closely... but who's making the money on this endevour? Where's the rich white guy? MSP didn't do this out of the goodness of their heart.
Why would you be bending over for a revolutionary Old School rap act? I mean, Dr. Dre was in N.W.A. and, oh yeah, the Napster thing...
Oh, you mean Northwest Airlines! Silly me.
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
This new network will be based on the IEEE 802.11 (Wi-fi) standard that is currently being used by Apple in its "airport" wireless system.
This sounds like an excellent proposition, especially since the idea of internet kiosks for general web use has not caught on big in the U.S. How many times have you been stuck in a public place wishing you could only read an email with directions/phone number/ etc?
I work for a PCS phone provider in Minneapolis.
Concourse Communications also controls wireless phone access at MSP as well. Controls, as in, you go through them to obtain a lease to install equipment and/or antennas on the airport property.
The problem is that they're dictating that we *must* use the "shared" system that they've installed. We've (and every other phone carrier) has refused so far. The problems are numerous, but boil down to:
Who's going to fix a shared network when it breaks?
Every carrier uses a different technology/frequency band. One size does not fit all.
We don't share revenue. Period.
The end result of this is that every property around the airport that can support a tower or antenna site, does now. And coverage inside the airport and parking structures are pretty poor as a result of it.
Yeah... I'm a CSci student at the UofM and they've got wireless internet available from kiosks all over campus. Minneapolis is aparently all about wireless.
The company I work for has VPN setup for users who have internet access from home to connect to the company network. So if anyone from my company goes to that airport, we can still use it free. Who is going to pay for this service?
It's easy to stand out when the general level of competence is so low.
I wonder what they mean by "free." Must be one of those Mortgage company kind of freebies. Maybe they mean the signals are "Free" to travel in 3 dimensions since its wireless. Maybe they mean its "free" to bring your own laptop into the airport. As I said. When it becomes free I will rip out my left testicle. Thats my pledge. Hey, I do what I can, you know!?
1. Make sure the little-used broom closet is in fact completely unused or some janitor might decide to pawn your colo.
2. Make sure your linux/*bsd boxen have a way of sensing when they lose link to dhcp, re-link, and then notify your primary dns of the new NAT addresses.
3. If you're really clever, use one of the boxen as a gateway/firewall, put the others behind it, and then you can have security AND simplify step 2 in one stroke. Oh yes, and you have the pride of saying you have a private subnet behind yet another private subnet.
Don't forget the power, the UPS, and the monitoring equipment. If you really want to keep tabs, get one of those fancy swivelling x10 cameras to keep a 360 degree view of the surroundings, along with some kind of warning/defense system to protect the equipment against would-be thieves.
What is your Slash Rating?
You don't live in San Francisco. SFO has enough trouble getting freeways, people-movers, and subways built to the airport; I can't imagine that they would be able to handle 802.11 well.
at Calgary airport a few weeks ago
It's free for anyone to use if they have the gear..
What SHOULD they do for security? Nothing. not their problem.
The anonymity would be a huge reason to go there, free is just a bonus. Tracking the person would be pretty much impossible as the airport probably gets a TON of human traffic everyday (I'm not sure if that airport is an Airline Hub or not). Are there any measures that can(should?) be taken to ensure that the network won't be misused?
Maybe this will be locked down to port 80 only?
-- Dan
Singapore Changi Airport has offered free wireless Internet access for quite some time now. Hong Kong Airport also offers it, but not free.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Being a resident of the Twin Cities, and an occasional traveler, I find it somewhat amazing that they're offering wireless at all. Not much to say about that.. it could be nice.
However, it's going to be somewhat worthless to offer your travelers wireless without also giving them a place to plug in your laptop. Yes, I know laptops have batteries and don't have to be plugged in to be used. However, if you're like me, you hoard your battery's power for the actual flight instead of using it in the terminal. It *IS* possible to plug in at the terminal, but outlets are far and few in between, and you have to work around the rechargeable golf carts (or whatever they call those things) and other laptop users.
Lastly, with all the other concerns they have at airports these days, I am doubly amazed that they have the time to think about this. Not that I mind, it just makes me wonder.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Uhm, it's because of taxpayer money that the Internet was created in the first place. Would you have complained this loudly is the same idea were brought up in...say..1985?
I'm sure the airport fee was just raised for that particular airport.
All I can say is that before they start to use the free net, most of our(my) users would be stumped on step one... no not dhcp etc but how to stick the sodding card in the laptop. .. Certain directors.. hmmm... This guy tried to force an ethernet cable in his modem socket and wondered why the socket snapped off, that will give you some idea of my users.
"Here's how much it will cost the airport: $0. The corporate traveler: $0. Joe Traveler: $0, if he has a wireless laptop or handheld; otherwise, $6 to $8 for the day."
But article is titled "Airport to offer free wireless Internet service"???
Free like beer? Nope.
The security should not really be an issue if the users known what they are doing (yeah right). Anyone who is using a public wireless network _should_ be handling their own encryption. Most companies these days install a VPN client on the laptops to encrypt all data over the net back to HQ.
The wireless providers can also put in routing to stop Peer-peer atacks across the same wireless LAN. This is what some of the commercial providers do to stop free use of the wireless connection so people can't just set up a LAN to swap files/etc.
[Please type your sig here.]
Just jump on to one of the CalTrans WAPs ;)
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
The first time there is a group of bored teens with laptops and Q3, there is gonna be an international incedent. While the a massive swat team hides in fear while taunts of "I'm gonna frag you A**" are heard. Would not want to be the mayor of that town.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
I think it's fishy as hell. As 802.11 adoption increases, profits go through the floor. Or they charge for IPSec separately from other protocols, and people develop work-arounds. Meanwhile, JoeHaxor is downloading .isos all day and tying up the service.
Anyone want to bet on how quickly they stop giving away 802.11 free (or ask the airport for a bailout)? Three months?
sulli
RTFJ.
A-irports O-n L-ine * Featuring a 'wide' selection of Time Warner magazines (with blurry JPEG pictures) * Great in flight Movies (TWAol) * AirCrew with Red Hats * AOL keyword: wingandprayer You have delays!
For the future...
Follow me
I'm delighted to see anyone providing public access 802.11! There may be some concern over security but in my book if you're concerned about packet sniffing you restrict yourself to the wired LAN and control physical access to the ports. WEP isn't going to solve your problem. It's too easy to crack and it's only going to cut your network performance in half. Just my two cents on WEP.
I'm doubly delighted that they're not trying to charge the airport visitors for the use of the network. I hope that this is a sign of things to come for other types of places.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
but that certainly sounds good. An R/C tank with mini cannon and stun gun sounds better though :)
What is your Slash Rating?
I was at an ACI-NA (Airports Council International-North America) conference in Sept/01 and this was discussed by airport operators--people who were looking into implementing exactly this, but so far, people hadn't been very successful.
... if you figure that you can keep all 100 kiosks running; operating costs are low, no cost overruns on a tech job, the "freeloaders" (techies with their own hifi cards) aren't using the system as much as the paying customers, ... etc.
Being able to generate revenue from non-aeronautical streams is very important to an airport, because the aeronautical revenue (passenger charges, landing fees, bridge docking fees, etc.) are regulated. Only by these other operations--duty free, concession contracts, advertising space, selling time on a wireless network, etc.--can airports make money.
Anyways, so people were looking into it, and it was important.
As I recall, most operators had decided that it wasn't feasible because:
1. The relevant frequencies are already saturated with necessary communication. To date, this has been largely uncontrolled, and so airlines have just been using it for their remote check-ins, communication with the loading bridges, operational chatter such as emergency response, etc. So operations people were concerned that a casual browser would cut out important communication.
2. The cost/benefit analysis didn't seem to make this profitable. In this article, two numbers were quoted: $250,000 capital cost, and revenues of $6-8 per kiosk for a day of surfing (if you have your own wifi card, it's free). Just look at these figures for a minute. Upfront cost of $250,000, and assume operating costs are 50% of what the revenues are (i.e. there's a 100% margin, and we're going to assume that all free surfers don't cost us anything). Then 100 kiosks that generate $8 per day and cost $4 per day meaning a profit of $400 per day. That's $146,000 in yr 1, so there's a break-even in yr 2. That's actually reasonable
Anyways, neat to see that this is being implemented. Glad to hear that there was a work-able business plan. But I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't pan out.
I can see all of the great positives of this new idea, but I'm scared about something: Airports, especially international ones, have their own particular federal laws that aren't always "user friendly." So let's say someone passes through the facial recognition system and their likeness is matched up to that of a suspected terrorist. The whole airport shuts down and all of the sudden federal agents are snagging everyone's laptop that's been on the wireless network to see if they tried to communicate to/about this person. Maybe I'm being too negative or too conspiracy theorist-like, but I just don't think I'd get into the network until I saw how it was treated for a while.
~ now you know
Can't these be abused by mass UCE mailers?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Who says that this setup will allow high bandwidth transfers? Hell, if my local airport offered free high-speed connections, I would never leave the terminal! An idea is to cap connection speeds at about those of a plain old 56k modem (you remember those, right?). This would allow the network's users ample bandwidth for regular surfing, emailing, instant messanging, IRCing and other basic web activities. Also, this would help curb some of the scenarios mentionned above, such as the warez d00d pulling down ISOs and lagging the network, and the uploading of virii to the network from a curbside check in. (Granted a virus wouldn't take that long to upload anyway, but it's easier to catch someone in the act if he's there a minute rather then a few seconds).
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/23/132223 8&mode=thread
Remember this artictle @slashdot awhile back. I'm willing to bet that al least 10 people try to sue the airports because of something similar to this.
I once shot a man who posted too many, "Imagine a beowulf cluster of these"
I currently am activated out at the airport (doing fire protection, not one of those security monkeys) and I just so happen to have a laptop and an Orinoko :). Next time I get into the 'port I'll let ya'll know what kindof traffic is flowing through there..
This is a great boon for those of us who fly often, and go through MSP, I just wish it was more of a uniform infrastructure throughout the airport communities.
~RaGzz
I'm looking to collaborate US (for starters) Free 802.11b networks. Basically I'm willing to put up an AP for a node and I'd like it if others who are willing to do this would submit locations so we can start mapping out coverage. I live in chicago so this is my first logical city to work in. I could also use help with design and maintenance of the site. Wouldn't it be sweet if we could walk anywhere with our 802.11b devices and have at least some kind of service, for free? I HAVE A DREAM, DAMNIT!
http://www.freenets.org
I would expect it to use some payment system like in many hotels.. You connect, and it blocks any access until you register. Any WWW site you request is replied to with their registration page.
And, like most other airport goods and services, it won't be cheap.
It is sad when you can consider yourself a veteran of /. after a few days of posts.
Same topic different day
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
"Dang, missed my flight. Now I've got to wait six hours. I'll be bored what am I going to do?
[Ding!] "I know! I'll send an email threatening to kill the President over the airport's Wi-Fi!
Then I can sit back and enjoy the show!
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
A suspected terrorist was apprehended today at Franz Kafka International Airport. Security personnel became suspicious when they noticed the image of a bomb on a traveler's computer screen. The computer case also had a picture of an apple on it, which authorities believe may be related to the September 11 attacks in the "Big Apple".
Film at 11.
Today I had Tres Taco's, with chicken inside and hot sauce on top. On the side I had chips and a Barq's Root Beer. It was good, and hearty...thank you.
I'd say that I would rather like a world wide standard. But maybe that is a job for each airline. Sure it is nice when you step into the biz. lounge of the airline and find a working space with printers/faxes and computers connected to the internet, but if only they would provide a RJ45 connection for the booths where you can sit with your own laptop. Some does but many does not. and all I really need is a cup of coffee and a place to plug my LAN adapter into the net.
Just imagine. A free, open wireless network in which you can churn out spam by the crate.
2. Denial of Service attacks from a single user are history. ...While it may be difficult to track you down to an exact location, you are still in a post 9/11/01 airport. They are on the lookout for strange behavior.
You're missing the big picture. Said DDoS hacker has his laptop in his bag, with a nice high-gain antenna so he gets more range. It automatically connects to the network, then begins scanning all connected machines for vulnerabilites. If it finds one, it dumps the trojan/DDoS client on it- he doesn't care about launching an attack there and then- the important thing is to hack the laptops. Once they're hacked, the software will automatically call home to the IRC channel to await commands. Of course, it'd be smart for the trojan to wait a few hours before trying to connect so the airport wirless doesn't lock onto the IRC traffic and notify the user.
Said DDoS hacker stands at the magazine rack for a while. Then heads to the food court. Maybe stare out the window at the planes, things everyone else is doing, while his laptop is busy finding insecurities. After a while, he moves on to the next terminal. How many machines do you think he can hack in a short time? How many could a small group in a short time? A concentrated effort by a large group at major airports across the country?
Pretty scary if you ask me.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
This is from an American, so it invloves an US perspective and experiences:
Security: In an airport you are always being watched. Its been this way for years. If you log into the netowork, you can bet they'll find you if they want to. Its a matter of determining when the event took place and which wireless "hub" was the originator, then searching through the video files. They get everybodies picture with a laptop, then profile them. Once they have someone they feel best fits the profile, they will get every recording of you, i everyplace you've been on there property. thids means they know what Bus, car, cab, plane, you got there with. This is just basic security work from that point.
Terrorist: this in no way makes airplane more vulnerable to attack. Of course the current security measures in know way prevent the events from 9/11 happening again either.(of course if you pull a knife out now, the other passengers will probably kill you. THAT will prevent another 9/11.
Don't send any data in a public network that you wouldn't post on the front page of a newspaper, ever. If you do, it will be found out. I wish we lived in a world where you could send data and not worry about it, but alas, we do not.
Finally, If you want to know what life will be like in the US 10 years from now, just look at an airport and expect to have the same level of privacy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If I'm not mistaken, one of Germany's largest international airports, Frankfurt am Main Airport also offers wireless services. It's been some time since I read about it. It was supposed to be free only during a test phase though. After that, you'd have to pay a certain fee. Still helps to shorten the waiting time for a plane :).
great place to put a Carnivore... right at the firewall that (hopefully) protects this thing from the outside world.
AFAIK, Sydney Airport is doing something similar. I've seen a few 802.11b antennas sticking out of the roof, and they've had free wireless internet kiosks (sponsored by samsung) since the olympics.
Until then, oh well.
or two...
Anyway, I'm sorry that last paragraph was so confusing. I guess assigning another meaning to the word Airport wasn't so smart on Apple's part.
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Do we really want our governments putting up big higway projects? I know that's not what I pay my taxes for.
:)
You don't have to be a genius to see that there are more important things to do with taxpayer money.
What does this even get us really? Sure it's k3w1 and convenient and whatnot, but seriously.
If we let this sort of thing happen, why not Government off-ramps or mountain roads service?
See the sarcasm?
Who's in charge of the moderation here, undersexed compulsive bonobo monkeys? The parent post should've been sent -1, Offtopic immediately. So much for the idea "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...
I may start travelling more. I'll go to airports with a load of bills, play on the internet while I wait for a plane that needs a passenger and does that cheap passanger at the last minute thing.
Then I'll visit around the country just for the heck of it... Coming back to the airport daily to catch up on emails and buisness so I can have money to keep traveling.
God spoke to me
...while they de-ice your plane for the fifth time. And just think, you could plan your layovers around it.
4 hours in Minneapolis.....high speed access....I can grab copies of....
Inevitably, it'll just mean a reduction in Playboy/Penthouse/Hustler sales for the airport newstands.
Are the airports going to be utilizing the same blacklists of url's that the Australian government uses?
I know if I had a kid, and he/she was sitting next to some 40 yr old skeeze looking at kiddie pr0n, I would be livid!
>>>Being a resident of the Twin Cities....
>>However, it's going to be somewhat worthless to
>>offer your travelers wireless without also
>>giving them a place to plug in your laptop.
Ummmmmm........ you should fly out of your own airport more. Minneapolis/StPaul is actually pretty good at having desks available in the terminal WITH power outlets.
Sure, it could always be better, but it's about the best airport i've seen in that regard.
No wonder /. has such good bandwidth. Are they spending ONLY $250,000 for hosting?
O'Hare is the worst airport for power
...Tim...
outlets, that I've seen. I couldn't find
a single outlet when I went through over
the holidays, just a couple of non-working ones.
Rather amazing and depressing, considering that
it's a fairly new terminal.
i can watch cnn.com, read one of several (insert city here) times/daily/post newspapers, and listen to npr at most airports. why would i want to expose my laptop to airsnort (unless they are giving everyone their own WEP key or cert - heh) just to read slashdot and find out that the whole thing's been cancelled for lack of ROI just as my link gets cut???
...
i think it would be more useful to have kioks like gatwick where you can jack into a pvt space and fire up your favorite PPTP client. a small service fee to hook up and you're on your way to reading about what's really important, like the TCP/IP enabled lego brick
when it rains, it gets real soggy. when it pours, i'm under the tap just _waiting_ for the joy
A lot of people are worried about script kiddies.
Last I checked, most of these folks were 15 years old. Chances are the only time they will be in an aiport is when they fly back to New Jersey to visit grandma. Mom and Dad won't let them take there expensive laptops with them because they know it will break.
Chances are the'll be too busy looking at the assult rifles the national guard is carrying and wondering what a death match in the airport would be like.
--
The Internet is generally stupid
Sure, Indy was a possibility, but they were afraid users might play violent video games in a public place.
I'm an Indy resident, and I know the video game ordinance was stupid. But it was a fairly major campaign promise for the new mayor. Logic or Politics, apparently you can't have both.
Sounds likes Minnesota beats Indy on the high-tech frontier (like everybody else).
Set up a public terminal that is running EtherPEG, and pretty soon people will get the message about untrusted public networks...
BTW, what sniffing software do you prefer?
Terrorists will use this to coordinate attacks. It is also probably that it will open the airport network itself up to attack.
Most flights I've been on (American/United) have a standard cigarette-lighter style power adapter in the seats.
:)
I'm curious if you can setup an 802.11 network in flight or if it will muck with anything they run. I think another thing that would take off well for the planes is having a game/lan server and either cat5 or 802.11. Being able to play Counter Strike/Quake3/Starcraft on the flight would be awesome. I'd pay extra for that capability, assuming you knew other people on the plane could play
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Send me $50 and I will get you into a great opportunity selling viagra by e-mail while your waiting at the airport.
Seriously --- given 10 min of code any decent spammer can whip out a program that will SPAN X accounts Y per minute. If they are stuck at the airport while trying to visit their gorgeous beach front property we are much the worse.
Sounds to me is a whole bunch of unstoppable SPAM waiting to happen. Even more theft of service.....
Regards,
Turtleshadow
And the best part is, they (co. that canceled said flight) has to buy you the ticket!
Know your rights
Sapere Aude - Homer
The person in front you of may get a little annoyed as you slam your mouse around on the tray table, however.
Which terminal? I fly through there every couple of weeks and there are enough of them. Either in the floor under the seats (which such by the way) next to the gates or running along the lower part of the window frames. There's also a very convenient one next to the Starbucks tables between the H and G concourses.
And I think Dallas did too.
San Fran, Chicago, didn't have it.
Of course, it was free to Windows XP users only (by TravelPort.Net).
The next best thing to do is to stand outside all the admirals clubs and try to steal some signal.
Even better than cell phones, a new way your friendly neighborhood terrorist can collect and relay real-time, first person, intelligence on security setup, procedured, and deployment. I mean, if you can afford something powerfull enough to run something with SSL, SSH, PGP, or a VPN client, then you even have an encrypted channel. This seems to be another indication, in my opinion, that all of this stuff about airport security is just for show. I wish they would take it more seriously.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
Last I checked, COncourse Communications (the company installing the network) is a commercial entity owned by a couple of publicly traded companies, NOT a "government". Airports typically have a governing body which is sometimes, but not always, part of the county or state government. In MSP, it's the Metropolitan Airports Commission. They make their money from landing fees, concessions, and parking mostly, along with stuff like vending and payphones. This is a similar deal - Concourse foots the bill for the equipment & installation, and the MAC provides an affluent and captive customer base, and is compensated by Concourse.
BTW, this is NOT part of the airline wireless LANs, or other commercial wireless LANs operating at the airport.
Changi Airport (Singapore) has had free wireless (for laptops) and IR (PDA) internet access (as described here) for some time now. Great for that 2 hour stopover en route to Europe...
I know that Bluegrass International has a network that is available, as does the Airport in Hilo, Hawaii. A few others have this too.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
"During take off, you must return your seat and tray table to their full and upright position and turn off all electronic devices, and keep all electronic devices such as radios and portable televisions turned off for the duration of the flight."
*runs Flight Simulator, takes control of plane, flies into the ground (oops)*
You ever wonder how crackable the autopilot on a commercial airplane is? It probably uses the same frequencies (or frequencies scannable by) a wireless ethernet card, or will in the coming years (what with the FCC cracking down on radio bandwidth usage). This open availability of access to various sources can only compound the issue of security.
[insert witty comment here]
I evidently do not fly enough as I had not scrounged around enough to find all of this.
What desks? Argh!
BTW - I've only ever attempted to use my laptop in the airport while I'm at the gate. I suppose that was my most critical error.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Wireless in airports would be nice to kill time between those overlays.
I fly in and out of MSP a lot. On my most recent visit to the airport, they had an area with carrels set up so that you could sit down, plug in your laptop and work. The carrels were even equipped with payphones that had little jacks in the side so you could plug your laptop modem into it and dial into your ISP. It looked new -- at least I hadn't noticed it in previous visits.
But yeah, electrical outlets are generally few and far between in airports.
Steve
Singapore has free internet access via wifi already for a couple of years..
counterstrike on the airplane might upset your fellow passengers just a tad. All the hoopla with terrorists and all...
Yeah, a registration page... With a MAC address, cell phone number, home address...
How about I turn on my sniffer, capture a MAC, then modify one byte so it's *unique* and spoof my MAC?
Are you going to actually reverse lookup the Cell phone # to match it to the address? I can guarantee you that won't work. Here's why:
* bogus addresses (1060 W. Addison, Chicago, IL 60606)
* Bogus cell phone # 1-312-222-2222 (Chicago Tribune classified ad line)
* People may use a diff address than what the cell phone points to...
Want some more info that I can make up?
About the only *good* thing related to the registration check-in page is that one would be able to sniff the REAL info of the sheeple and commit some really nice fraudlent activities...
Keep goin' - you're definately on the right track
everybody else uses Hotmail.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
I remember taking a few flights through National Airport, back in the Metricom days. [Richochet, or however they spelled it]. It does sometimes take a little bit of time in finding power outlets, and in making sure you're near them, but if you have a good eye, you'll find them.
[Simple fact is -- they use 'em for vaccuum cleaners. Some airports have 'em in the floor, with some sort of locking panel over 'em...as we can't carry pocket pliers or pocket knives on us anymore, we can't open those up, but quite a few airports have 'em just as normal circuits along the wall, under some seats.]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Now all they have to do is sit at the airport with their trusty wireless laptop and sniff corporate IDs and passwords to their heart's content. At least the company I work for only allows wireless access through a VPN!
This is just beautiful.
And anyway - it was the IETF for heaven's sake! These are people who design and analyze this stuff for a living. If they can't do simple stuff like a secure login (fuck, even Yahoo Mail lets you do that) then we're really in trouble.
sulli
RTFJ.
I can see the CNN headlines now...
"President Bush calls out the National Guard to provide airport network security after alleged hack attempt from Dullas International.
Today, Mr. Bush citing the need to protect business travelers from hackers in airports called out the National Guard to aid in the inspection of network packets in airport terminals. Later today he'll be proposing a 55 billion dollar budget amendment to increase network security in airports.
Mr. Bush said at his press conference "We just need to spend more money to provide security for these Americans. The US economy is depending on it."
As others in this thread noted, I've been to MSP a few times... last time with a 3 hour layover. Just so happened that right next to my gate there was one of these little room-type things with... well I guess you could call them desks. In the same room were drop boxes for mailing, making faxes, etc. It was quite cool. No net access (at the time), though...
an extra i instead of an extra e.
Just like the i but no a in definitely.