Slashdot Mirror
Sony Announces Version 1.0 Of Linux for Playstation 2
ResearchBuzz writes: "Sony has announced the May 2002 release of Linux (for Playstation 2) Release 1.0." He quotes from the press release: "The company expects the kit to sell for about $199 USD when it is made available in May 2002 exclusively through its website, http://www.us.playstation.com."
Looks like the hardware alone that comes in the kit is worth the $199!
Too bad I don't have a PS2...
Now I can try to edit my rc files with a gamepad. As if I wasn't already having a hard time.
This will be a neat kit, and I'll likely spring for it. The hardware is worth it alone...
But out of serious curiousity -- I wonder how hard it will be to get BSD running on it... Hmm.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
to beat the dead horse....
I wonder if Wine or lindows would efficiently run on this now. The idea of perhaps running Bleem or some other emulators on the PS 2 would be great. Perhaps a dreamcast emulator evuantally. The hardware is there. Just need someone with lots of free time.
Or perhaps someone could write a DeCSS program that would run under it:-)
But of course I am a idiot.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
Is this really useful? You need a monitor which supports Sync-on-green to use this. I guess we won't be able to use this as a set-top box.
Great, now I can port all those old arcade games from 10 and 20 years ago onto 21st century platform. Who woulda thunk it?
- VGA monitor adaptor: $7. There's no logic in the thing; it's
just a cable with two connectors.
- USB keyboard and mouse kit: $15. It's no "Microsoft Natural"
keyboard but a cheap Taiwanese knockoff will do the job just fine.
- Linux CD-ROMs: $2 - $23. One was a prerelease of the Sony
distribution, and one was a hacked up version of Debian, complete with a
Playstation apt source preinstalled.
- Network adaptor: $22. It uses the Xircom adaptor, IIRC.
- Used 20GB hard drive: $47. It's even a 7200rpm ATA-66 dealie.
The point being, of course, that Sony is being very opportunistic with its Linux release. All of the hardware can be had for well under $100, and the software is Free as in GPL and can't legally be sold at a profit.But what else did you expect from a member of the RIAA cartel?
Mr. Uptime
Free Open Source Naked Ladies!
Considering there is a hard disk and a operation system that is developed by "hackers," what is stopping someone from creating a bootloader for Linux to boot PS2/PSX burns (let it be a DVD-R/CDR).
I don't see why it would not be possible to do so unless they have really done a good job putting protections into place.
Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. continues to redefine the entertainment lifestyle
I was actually excited about this neat-o deal until I read this phrase. Doesn't it seem a bit silly to praise and promote a life filled with entertainment? Or am I being a joykill?
On the other hand, if entertainment is being redefined as Linux hacking, maybe there's a great deal more progress being made than I realized...
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
All of the hardware can be had for well under $100, and the software is Free as in GPL and can't legally be sold at a profit.
Huh? Why not?
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
So if it includes the Hard Drive and Ethernet adapter, does this mean those are going to be available in May instead of this summer? That's kind of exciting....
I'm not sure what Sony planned on selling the drive for, but I think the Network Adapter (which was suppose to be modem and ethernet) was going to go for around $40. Anyone know what the hard drive was going to sell for?
I'm wondering what the value-add price of Linux is in this case.
After you fork out the $199 for the linux kit you can install all the old code for Indrema and start porting all the cool games to your new free software (500 dollar system)
Driving backwards on the highway of life
Looks like most(if not all) of the $199 goes to additional hardware and documentation, nothing unusual about that...
A MAME DVD would have enough space on it for all the most popular MAME's game ROMS
BUT, would Sony allow such a distribution ???
Checkout MAME here : http://www.mame.net
And for all your ROM needs here : http://www.mame.dk
Galaga,Outrun,Spy Hunter,Xevious,Rolling Thunder - ahh !! my childhood !
Darren Kruse CCNP CCDP
WAN/LAN Networking Consultant
mailto://darren_kruse@hotmail.com
www.geocities.com/darren_kruse
In the past, you had to have the development system to use the programs wrote by others. So you'd have to shell out the money for a development system just to play your pirated games. In the case of the PSX that was cost and unit prohibitive. There weren't enough units and they cost way to much to justify that.
In this case, though, some people may be more keen to paying $200 and pirate 50 games (of which, they'll play 4. Good thing they are saving money.).
It boils down to, even if you did come up with a bootloader, only those with a development system would benefit from it. If I had one of the development systems, I wouldn't be interested anyway. If a game is worth playing, I'll buy it.
Is that hard drive going to be used only for linux? can we save games to it?
While it sounds very cool, it is way too expensive - you can get 40 GB hard drive for 67$ in retail, NIC for 10$ in retail and all those other adapters and perhipals for 40$..in retail... so their hardware cost like 60$ max...
But, I guess they do have to pay for development costs (???) and make some money on small amount of users... another major drawback is that you have to use it on your computer screen... now, do you really want to drag your playstation to your computer all the time? whats the point?
However, cool thing would be if we get some hacks and mods that let us use wireless nics and bigger hd's and normal tv's.... take that webtv!
So I can write a program that flashes the analog light on the controller in morse code.
This will only be of value if I can compile Nethack for PS2. This would have to be the only game to take full advantage of the PS2's graphics :-)
Alister
People sure seem to have some funny ideas about what the free software licenses allow and prohibit. Perhaps"Mr. Uptime" is mistaken or maybe I simply don't understand, but one of us seems to be wildly mistaken about what the GPL actually says.
Why can't the software be sold at a profit? As far as I'm aware, the GPL doesn't prevent you from selling GPL'ed software for any price you and a buyer can agree upon. According to my understanding, the GPL mainly (a) prevents you from prohibiting recipients from redistributing the software themselves, and (b) requires that if you distribute GPL'ed software or derivative works you make source code available for free. Neither of those requirements is necessarily incompatible with for-profit sales.
If you read the article it clearly states it comes with a 40 GB hard drive. I'm guessing you didn't. So you would have also missed the part about a USB keyboard and mouse and the whole monitor adaptor thing aming your PS/2 a fully functional linux workstation.
will this help me with final fantasy X? it would be a great way to put on the ol' business expense account. "yeah, right, i needed the playstation because it runs linux. yeah."
i'll see if my wife will buy that argument, and let me buy it!
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
This is NOT a Troll post or Flamebait, it is simply my opinion. If you disagree, I welcome a response.
It looks like Linux (for PlayStation 2) may be a really popular item (for PlayStation 2), especially if Sony (for PlayStation 2) is releasing (for PlayStation 2) this into mainstream (for PlayStation 2) retail (for PlayStation 2) outlets (for PlayStation 2).
Just remember, it's for PlayStation (for Play(for PlayStat(for PlayStation 2)ion 2)Station 2) 2!
With my end-user hat on , I think this is a good thing, as I know that all commercial PS2 bootable DVD will have at least some sort of minimum quality control
With my hacker/geek hat on, I'm kinda disappointed that this won't allow non Sony sanctioned s/w to be produced for the PS2
I'm not sure which way to lean on this one, so it's just an observation at this stage !
Darren Kruse CCNP CCDP
WAN/LAN Networking Consultant
mailto://darren_kruse@hotmail.com
www.geocities.com/darren_kruse
So we can play tuxracer on the big screen TV, duh. ;-P
It's not like everyone is wealthy enough to have a 3D accellerator card let alone a TV-out on our machines! This $199 pricetag is less than the 2 of those combined, assuming you're into quality hardware.
Note to moderators: this is a joke.
It seems to me that the PS2-to-monitor adapter is a worthless throw-in. The primary advantage to running Linux on the PS2 is the ability to use your n inch big screen TV for DVDs, life-sized Quake and 'Net pr0n, etc. I have tried various adapters to use my comp on my TV and they all fellate fuzzy hamster testes, more or less (in addition to a few Nvidia cards with video out, my dad let me borrow a relatively expensive scan convertor he uses for Power Point presentations (he's a professor)). While DVDs are definitely sharper on my monitor than on my TV, I'd rather take a slight loss of quality lying comfortably on the couch over sitting bolt upright in a desk chair squinting at my monitor from ten centimeters away. Ditto for games that use a joypad instead of a keyboard.
--All your stolen base are belong to Rickey Henderson
maybe just disable the god damn button altogether for those of us that don't want to have it bumped during those insane times when I bash the analog sticks against my forehead.
And I wonder why people ask if I have a "large" zit problem.
Seriously that button always gets turned on and next thing I know the fucking Detriot Lions sack Warner. Umm, no.
..the article. the computer monitor adapter threw me off guard, along with some of the other accessories and such that come along with it. $199 is a bit pricey, but i may still pick it up. like everyone else has said - a 40gb HDD, usb keyboard/mouse, network card and so much more... not a bad deal really.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
Has anyone ran linux on a PS2 run any Benchmarks yet? I'd like to know just how fast the CPU really is.
Hmmm... maybe the PlayStation will have enough horsepower to drive VMWare running under Linux with a guest operating system of Windows 98. Now all those Windows games will be available on the PlayStation? Well, we can dream can't we?
liB
When you say 'this' I would assume your talking about the linux kit.. why would 'that' not allow non-sony sanctioned (as you put it) software to be made for ps2? The linux kit does come with a hard drive, so theoretically I could create software on my own and save it on my ps2, without any say from sony whatsoever. In fact, I would say this linux kit 'helps' people create software on the playstation 2.. I think its their point =)
For those who are interested, this is the place to go. Every 'community' like /. stated as one or two guys with an idea...
In other words, the site is kinda small right now.
It helps if you, like, smoke a lot of weed.
Sapere Aude - Homer
Just wondering...
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
--rwatson
Back when this story last hit /. I observed the dump of dmesg from the thing and the DVD drive was conspiciously absent. Without that we can't build up a DVD/DiVX;)/MP3/OGG/etc player very easy.
Democrat delenda est
But the question is: Does it run Linux?
I wil be able to watch DivXs and listem to mp3s throught my PS2 !JOY!
Site Statistics
Hosted Projects: 5
Registered Users: 5
Hurray and be registered user 6!
This is my sig.
Also, Bleemcast only runs like 2 or 3 games and you need a seperate Bleemcast disc for each game. I believe they released disks for MGS, Gran Turismo 2 and maybe one other? Tekken 3?
You'd be much better off porting one of the existing Open Source PSX emulators to PS2/Linux. However, you're unlikely to get anywhere near full speed unless you rewrite them to take advantage of the PS1-compatible hardware the PS2 has (the PS2 doesn't really emulate the PS1, the hardware is there to begin with). This would take a lot of effort, which is why Sony didn't bother to create a high-res PS1 solution for PS2.
If I am not incorrect, the hacked-up version of Debian has newer versions of the above software.
If you really want to, you could just go the NetBSD route.
Nope.. sorry. too slow and windows is way to bloated for the memory spec of that machine , especially as a guest OS.
Also, VMWARE is i386 only (binary remember).
Do we hate Sony today?
Last week, we hated Sony for its DRM copy-protection on Sony Memory sticks.
The week before that, we loved Sony because they were releasing a PS2 Linux kit in Japan.
The week before that, we hated Sony because they were a key proponent in creating the DMCA.
The week before that, we liked Sony because of the PS2.
The week before that, we hated Sony because they shutdown an AIBO hack site.
Do we like or hate Sony this week?
Although I see no real reason to buy one other then for the "cool" factor, I do see some potential for making home brew ps2 games. Although games take years to devlope woulden't it be fun to play with a ps2 system and try to make linux based games or port other OS game code to the ps2?
According to the press release, ``The graphics output requires a high-resolution computer display, with standard output set as XGA (1024 x 768 resolution); home televisions cannot be used as monitors."
This is the only thing that bugs me (well, aside from the fact that I live in Japan and this won't run on my Japanese PS/2, and the Japanese version of the kit is high near impossible to obtain). I don't really _need_ a monitor (I'd just ssh in from my main workstation) but I would really like to be able to, say, watch streaming video on my TV. (Example: Star Trek Enterprise won't be showing in Japan for like, another 2 years. I have been grabbing eps from the 'net and watching them on my crappy 17" LCD monitor, while my 24" TV sits there idle.)
Anybody know more about this? Surely the development of a driver to push video through the RCA video hookup wouldn't be too difficult?
>this kit wouldn't be horribly out of date.
>glibc 2.2.2?
Since when is glibc 2.2.2 horribly out of date? I can see the kernel being mentioned as out of date (2.2.1 from what I saw), but the C library? Sure, it's been out for a year, but there have only been 2 point releases since then, nothing more.
>gcc 2.95.2?
Uhm. What does 2.95.3, or 2.95.4 offer that 2.95.2 doesn't? (And don't even try telling me about 3.0.x.) And how often to you use those features?
>XFree86 3.3.6?
OK, so that might be just a little out of date. But it works. And I really doubt that you'll be doing a whole hell of a lot of 3D on it to begin with; if that were the case, I wouldn't doubt that Sony would release a new version with XFree 4 or something like that in it.
So... what exactly was this about completely out of date software?
Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)
After I wrote my Playstation Documentation Project I have had to dance with Sony playing the intellectual property game with me and Connectix. I've taken up a hobby of watching Sony pretty closely when it comes to them protecting thier I.P. and tend to become even more intrested when they start becoming "generous" like this. It's hard to think that there are no strings attached. Allow me to give you a little history.
/dev you are going to be sorely disappointed. If you can access the CD-ROM, color me suprised.
When Sony released the "Net Yaroze" (A grey PSX painted black for hobbiests), there was a very restrictive licence in the contract you had to sign. This included a "all programs created with the Yaroze are property of Sony" clause. They also popped in an NDA for good mesure too. It was a little too resticting for me.
When I was halfway though my Doc, I let my e-mail show up on a PSXDev mailing list informing them of the Doc I was working on. I almost immidiatly got an e-mail from Sony of Japan(!) asking if I spoke Japanese. When I answered that I did, I got a real nastygram in Japanese basicly saying that if I even think about publising any of the libary commands to the PSX I'd be up the proverbial estuary without means of locomotion. A few months later I published, had a little tussle about the BIOS hooks, and now I'm here.
I haven't played with the Japanese Linux for PS2, but it still stinks. I used to live in Japan and know first hand that they have very restrictive intellectual property laws. (Like music CDs that are made for rental and others that you can buy, but they have to be at a sold at a particular price set by the company.) I can tell you right away, If you are thinking of doing anything that reqires accessing the CD/DVD-ROM, such as DVD Playback, reading files files from a disk, or even finding something in
Be aware that were will probably going to be proprietary drives/libs that you will not be able to reverse without Sony calling the lawyers. I know you will have *ZERO* access to the bootloader. Once again, if this isn't the case, I'll be pleasently suprised again.
Finally, I doubt that you will be able to play PS2 games/DVDs out of the moniter adapter. If you do, if I remeber, you will only get the green channel to show up.
I'm also sure that if you make a copy of the Linux disk for some sap with a hacked harddrive and a modchip, Sony will be knocking.
Just a heads up.
-Joshua Walker
Sure you can.
It has a NIC. It has a Hard Drive. What more do you neeD?
Why Linux? It's PLAYstation !
Well,
Finally sony took the plunge. Its great. I really wonder about the distance the Linux community has travelled! In 91 Linus wouldnt have even thought about such a thing happening... late 90's were spent in getting the server space, and now the new millenium signals Linux arriving in our homes.
Hope this continues!
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Don't complain about the lack of size for a computer monitor, just pick up one of these things. They're not all that expensive. And, if someone figures how to just use a TV like the damn console was meant to do in the first place, there's mods you can do to the monitor to make it composite sync as well. Then just use it for the PC. :)
The only issue I can think of is the PS2's refresh rates.. anyone happen to know what they are? That Sony monitor wants a 100Hz horizontal I believe.. and before someone says it, I seriously doubt that just because both units are Sony that they're automatically interoperable.
This probably won't matter to a lot of people, but I've been working to build computers (and LCD screens, of course) into my car for a while now. I was also vaguely planning to get a PS2 in there sooner or later. I could kill two birds with one stone this way. And, to be honest, $300 for another PS2 + $200 for the kit would cost about the same as the regular computer hardware and it would be more compact. Hmm...
If you need to interpret my post, then you don't get it.
The PS2 boots off the second layer of dual-layer DVD-ROMs. Such DVD's can't be produced by Apple's or anyone else's drives since producing dual-layered disks requires fusing two single-layer disks together, which can only be done in a factory.
Sig goes here
With my hacker/geek hat on, I'm kinda disappointed that this won't allow non Sony sanctioned s/w to be produced for the PS2
Oh, pull the GPL out of your ass. Sony has gone out of it's way to put this together; they even had a petition to gauge interest, meaning they gave two shits about consumer demand. They can impose restrictions if they want.
As we all know, the big-console makers expect to make up for the money lost in hardware sales with software sale royalties from developers. There's no way you can even expect them to allow people to burn/distribute their own works.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Can I use a TV as my display ?
Yes. However, it is necessary to install Linux (for PlayStation 2) for the first time using a compatible VESA Monitor that supports "sync on green". Once Linux has been installed, it is possible to configure it to boot using TV display from then on. Some digital TV (DTV) modes are also supported (separate cables may be required for DTV).
Which Display Resolutions are supported ?
NTSC/PAL interlaced and non-interlaced
DTV 480P, 720P and 1080I modes
VESA modes 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 at 60/75 Hz
More:
Linux (for PlayStation®2) Version 1.0 FAQ
Sig goes here
>> I wonder if Wine or lindows
>> would efficiently run on this now.
Nope.
Wine only runs on x86 CPU's, Wine does not provide a CPU emulator.
Below is quoted from the Wine FAQ:
>> Wine is being developed specifically to run
>> on the Intel x86 class of CPUs under certain
>> UNIXes that run on the x86 platform.
The press release nor either of the PS2 web sites appeared to mention source code, as far as I could see. So I asked for a clarification.
Color me impressed. Not only did I receive a reply within minutes, but they are indeed fully abiding by the GPL.
This forum message contains the reply with a bit more info.
Thanks, Sony!
I've been contributing to open source projects for 15 years and now these jokers want to sell me that code back?
I don't think thats quite right.
I heard some time ago that PSs are considered a 'potential security risk' because of the possibility of adapting them to missile control applications.
/bin/laden'.
Given the disharmony between Iraq and the Taleban, this gives new meaning to the post-Sep11 catchphrase 'rm -rf
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
It's only a matter of time until someone comes up with a digital recorder setup that can be used in combination with Dtivo ect. a very nice little addition. Perhaps uing the usb port for input and the networking will allow storage on cds, and other devices for more permanent recordings of our favorite shows."Season Passes" would have a new meaning, having an entire season on a few cds. Starting to sound a lot like the new Moxi? But wait, isn't Microsoft most recent plans for doing the same with Ultimate TV? Yes, Sony must have seen this as the next step for the PS2, just allowing open source to help get there faster.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
According to this link:
The kits will cost $188.30 in Japan, $299 in the United States and $215 in Europe.
Given the recent modchip and regional liscencing case, this leaves Europe (SCEEurope's teritorry) as the only region you can't run Linux on the PS2.
So can Alan Cox be arrested for running Linux on his PS2 in the UK? Hmm. Also, you will note, Blokman Trading the guys who did the "privateer" Linux port to the Playstation have appeare to have dissapeared off the web. What happened to them?
Sony are in the same class as Microsoft: they seek to create a monopoly by proprietary lock - in, and regional liscencing, so this is the equivalent of MS Linux coming out.
Yet everyone celebrates...
/usr/games/fortune > ~/.signature
Even aside from the NIC and hard drive, you can plug whatever you want into those USB's. Pull out a USB DVD-ROM and you're set.
Hrm, deja vu...
>Uhm. What does 2.95.3, or 2.95.4 offer that 2.95.2 doesn't? (And don't even try telling me about 3.0.x.) And how often to you use those features?
Uhm. Over a years worth of bugfixes?
>OK, so that might be just a little out of date.
A little? How about the 2.4 kernel and XFree 4.x for DRI?
>Since when is glibc 2.2.2 horribly out of date?
Why use 2.2.2 when newer versions are source and binary compatible and contain bugfixes?
Does anybody know if Sony has any plans to release the kit for European Playstations ?
I'd definately be up for buying one if they did.
Surely someone could write a Linux "wrapper" to launch unsanctioned (and indeed copied) PS2 games? Or am I missing something?
I'm sure with a little messing about you could do that on the PS2 already, using the bundled version of BASIC.
"You heard the man, Tubbs.. get undressed."
For those of us too lazy to cross-compile, Adrian O'Grady over at fivemouse.com has a DiscJuggler image up for download.
It's based on kernel 2.3.41 if I remember correctly, and includes XFree, PrBoom, and some standard binaries. (vi, etc.)
This is the first burn that I've had with game controller, keyboard, and mouse support.
-- he's not heavy, he's my sysadmin!
Every single game I've played on my ps2 locks the anolog mode to on at startup when it detects a dualshock 2.
Follow the money.
Microsoft is using their market share in the PC world to leverage their way into the console world. This is what MS has right now that they will use to dominate the console world if they can. They have an OS that is used by more than 50% of the current market. They have numerous other technologies they have either bought for pennies on the dollar from competitors they have squeezed out of the market, or they have straight stolen a few and made them their own.
How do you compete with this 800lbs gorilla that has no remorse and eats its own kind on a daily basis. You find the one thing they are scared of and pair it up in your arsenal. You make sure they know you have it and aren't afraid to leverage it as well to help erode their current business if they encroach to far into yours.
So when you ask why just take a look at the marketplace.
As a Linux user myself I can only hope with a player like Sony backing Linux on their consoles as we move towards the age of networked terminals we get to see more and more applications developed for Linux.
Since the GPL requires the source code to be available, people are going to be able to take this thing apart and port more recent kernels to it.
That means "Network Block Devices", everyone. The ability to mount any device over a network.
This means everything from printers to hard drives to sound cards to a multiheaded system!
What's this Submit thingy do?
Have you not seen my rants aboutSony blatently [slashdot.org] and knowingly [advogato.org] being in direct violation [advogato.org] of the GPL
Perhaps Sony f****d up with respect to POSE, but not in this case. All the source code for the included GNU/Linux software comes right on the disc.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Now that this is no longer merely a game console, but rather an OFFICIAL "general Purpose Computing Device" because the vendor is offering Linux or allowing linux to be used on it, it is LEGAL TO MAKE BACKUPS OF GAME MEDIA you own!
But it also makes it unlawful to rent PS2 games in the US without the permission of each game publisher. According to 17 USC 109(b)(1), it's an infringement of copyright to rent computer software that's not designed for a "video game console" without permission of the copyright holder. This could add up to a lot of red tape for each independent rental shop.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I agree that lack of TV output is my only complaint with their package.
I somehow doubt that X can't run on interlaced NTSC, but rather that text is ugly and difficult to read at typical font sizes.
The option of running at 640x480 or even less if necessary would increase acceptance even if a monitor were recommended.
Another cool application would be dual monitor support (including TV plus RGB). I have no idea how the connectors work, and this is more viable if VGA is a seperate connector rather than an adapter for s-video or something.
Virtual desktops in X window managers would let you direct apps to monitors of your choice (say TV displays desktop 2 and 4, and VGA 1 and 3).
*sarcasm*
And with a mod-chip, you'll be able to share it with your friends. Imagine! A free operating system on a PS2!
*/sarcasm*
What will Linux on a PS2 do that I can't do with an inexpensive nForce PC?
Can any of us find a creative way of getting software written by us or our creative internet community partners running on our PS2 with ethernet and HD access?
Hell even if the HD was so small as to only allow a core linux system, ethernet would let you mount fat32 partitions accross the network.
News.com has a short summary including prices and a distribution timeline. Not quite $199 in the USA. http://news.com.com/2100-1040-825762.html
If you're interested in this distro for running such apps, you might want to look into a lightweight window manager (if that's an applicable term) like ion. I personally use it on a number of my leaner boxen, and there's no reason you couldn't run konqueror/mozilla/koffice with it on a 32MB system. I'm not so certain about StarOffice - I haven't tried it on anything except my main (and much more modern) system.
We who were living are now dying
With a little patience
It seems like this could almost be considered the "VAIO Jr." All they need to do is give you a can of purple/silver paint to repaint your PS2 and you'd have it!
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
A lot of people are miffed that Sony's asking $200 this and so and and so forth, but I think it's an okay deal - think how much a 40 gig hd costs (~$100) and an ethernet card (~30). Throw in a great os that has been ported for the first time to a completely foreign architecture (~ $$ who knows?), coupled with the fact that this stuff is not off-the-shelf but has to be tested and repackaged to fit the exacting specs of the PS2 and I think you've got a pretty good deal. Add the $300 for a PS2 plus the $200 for this kit and maybe another $200 for a decent monitor (if you don't have one already), and you've got yourself an incredibly compact, inexpensive graphics workstation with the added bonus of being able to play PS/PS2 games! Everyone who reads slashdot knows that it won't be long before people start writing stuff - utlilities, games, workarounds - and you've got a new platform. So Sony says the PS2 can't read anything but PS/PS2/DVD discs. Then get a usb CD drive and go to town. I think this is a great opportunity to get another big company behind Linux and actually foster support towards the whole user-empowerment idea. Of course they don't want to release the source code, but we'll stick RMS on 'em. Heh. Njord
Use the PS2 Hard drive to store the ROMs and MAME.
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
Even, the link you pointed to says its $199 in the US like other links have said.
I'm as cheap a fuck as they come, but I feel their pricing is reasonable considering that you get some assurance that the stuff will work. Its comparable to buying stuff from IBM, rather than your local mom&pop shop.
$200 would have been very steep if all it came with was the software, but it doesn't seem so bad when you throw in the 40 GB HDD, the NIC, and the keyboard and such. Heck, might be worth it just for the hardware (finally get my PS2 on my LAN, just like my Dreamcast).
Also, the kit includes two DVDs. One of the DVDs is supposedly source code, so that still leaves one full DVD for executable code. So either DVDs are now cheaper to make than CDs, or there could be a !#@%$-load of stuff on this disk.
Third, while Sony has a history of fighting for control of their IP tooth and nail, they aren't so stupid as to believe that they're going to have a strangle-hold on development for PS2 software after the release of this OS. If they wanted to avoid, say, Bleem! being played on the PS2, the only way to avoid that is to just not release Linux (no matter how much they think they've crippled it). So either Sony is being really stupid by releasing the software and trying to lock it down as bes they could, or they're acknowledging the inevitable and letting programmers pretty much do as they will.
I'm a little miffed by the requirement for a monitor (as if I didn't have too little desk space already), but I'd consider buying it for the ability to play emulators alone. Mark my words: By this time next year you'll have most Linux-based emulators (including even maybe an N64 emulator) ready for use on a PS2 running Linux, complete with full controller port support. And then finally my PS2 will be able to play my PSX Final Fantasy games with the picture quality they were supposed to have...
I can't wait to get my PS2 linux kit. I'll be porting my TombRaider 1-5 ( PC ) engines reimplmentation to PS2 linux. I don't want to buy another monitor right now, so I prob use VNC.
Yay!
thks for clearing up... press release fked up.
In related news, /. erupted in a religious war today as its users tried to plan a tournament to determine who of us would get the PS2 LinuxKits. Seems nobody could agree on whether it should be fought in Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament, or Tux Racer. :)
* in Tux Racer all the way baby.
Users are already scheming a way to hack the hardware and already have ftp sites ready to dish out the software so they can pay nothing or as little as absolutely possible, even if they aren't paying the people who actually developed the port. It is very hard to make money selling Linux software (been there, done that). No matter the price, the only question we were asked was if we had a free version, etc. Being that we were actually trying to make a living and support families with our products/skills, it just didn't add up. Couple this with the eagerness of the Linux group to pass around the software (pirate), it is just very hard to make money on Linux. Witness groups who try to create games for Linux and sell them.
Back in the 8-bit day, game piracy was so bad on some platforms that the big game makers stopped writing/porting games to them because it wasn't worth the time (it cost them money to try to support those platforms). Some of those platforms died out before their "time" (before 8-bit systems were replaced by 16-bit and 32-bit systems).
Until people can easily find good ways to make a profit on Linux, most, if not all, of the software will continue to be provided by hobbyists or other people who provide these services in their spare time. I know that I am greatful for the time/effort of these folks in providing the things I use, but many people just seem to want to know if they can get it for free. It's quite saddening.
I hope I'm safe in assuming that when the PS2 LinuxKit is available in the US, we'll be able to get it up here in Canada too. I mean, worst case scenario is that I have to get it thru a friend in the States (yay! no region issues), but has anyone heard if they're going to formally release it in all the Region 1 countries at once?
Many of the questions posed in the forum are answered in the FAQ at http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php. I'll try to answer other questions as time allows, but I'm at LWCE today. Stop by and say Hi if you like, I'll be in the Sony booth. I've made some performance tweaks to the website, let's see if we can avoid slashdotting for a little longer...
Linux is getting more corperate attension over the past 2 years. AOL-TW, IBM, and TiVO are among the compaines. Microsoft has even considered Linux a major threat to it's business. As someone said before, Sony is not violating the GPL at all, no argument. Even TiVo, a set-top box that you buy in a retail store, which actually runs linux, put out their source code.
what do people plan to do with it? Will people be able to make their own games and distribute them? If so, I'll buy one. I don't want to buy just to have linux on my ps2, I already have that on my pc.
Why do we want this again?
I wonder how well emulation would work on a PS2 for systems like the N64,dreamcast, and or an X86 based PC?
How can they do all that and not break the GPL?
Unless everything boots off the HDD and all the source code is stored there as well and no DVDs/CDs are included, I can't see how they can do all that. Hiding the bootloader is easy, but hiding access to the CD/DVD-ROM drive will be difficult (without breaking the GPL, that is) unless you boot off the HDD.
I think that if they do all that they say they will, RMS and GNU are going to have a fit.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Just a little nostalgia
Google gave me the following slashdot article/discussion
"We live in our minds, and existance is the attempt to bring that life into physical reality" Ayn Rand
As mentioned above, the President did not suggest compulsory military service. Rather, he asked us to volunteer 4000 hours or two years over our entire lifetime in volunteer work. That's hardly an errosion of freedom. Its also doesn't diminish human rights. Clearly, actually listening to, watching, or reading the speech is helpful in not making ludicrous claims regarding the "whole anti-terrorism" thing or the "exact losses of freedom" that you fail to specify.
$199 Dollars? Hah. Gimme a break. And I though paying for a Linux distro was just plain immoral.
ONE HUDRED NINETY NINE??
HEH!
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
wow. Thank you Mrs. Robinson.
I can't wait to get the stuff and play Final Fantasy X under Linux. Now that the PS2 has a real OS FFX will run much faster and crash less often. And with a preempting multitasking OS I'll be able to play Silent Hill 2 in another windows during the boring cut sequences FFX. This has to be the greatest thing that's happened in video games.
-- SIGFPE
I am not flaming just trying to understand after having read most of the feedbacks on /.
Why being so excited about Sony putting up with Linux on PS2. Granted this will probably bring some visibility and increased credibility to the Linux OS (is it good and does it need that really?) The only positive thing is for Sony to get the eggs out of the golden goose, the same way as Red Hat does.
They are the people behing DRM, DMCA, MPAA, and all the ugly things that EFF and other great folks (some of them slashdot readers) are fighting against. Come on, the company is evil, so why are the replies so enthusiastic about this?
If some people just decide to turn to Linux because Sony supports it on their PS2, does the community really needs these people?
I want to understand.
PPA, the girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
we have setup a message board at http://ps2linuxkit.com more to come soon frank@ps2linuxkit.com
Why fux0r around with PS2 when Dreamcast is $50 (if you can still find one!) and unless you get a machine made after September 2000 is totally and completely CD-R bootable? The ethernet adapter is expen$$$ive on eBay but it's not a must, particularly considering that the thing comes with a standard v90 Conexant controllerless modem. I suspect that the code at linmodems.org might kick it over.
The main weakness of the DC is lack of hard drive. And of course that's a big weakness. However, there are tons of people playing around with not only Linux on DC but a new, open source OS specifically designed for DC game development called Kallisti!OS.
Why support the Sony 3v1L 3mp1r3? Join Team Dreamcast!
http://mc.pp.se/dc/
http://dev.dcemulation.com/
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Nitpick:
Copy protection is something which physically restricts the ability to copy.
Copyright protection is a concept by which many lawyers keep themselves employed.
Fuzzy
I get the joke, and I ran out of mod points a week ago.
Some people need to relax and get the flamethrowers off their ass.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
this is exactly why Linux won't make it bigtime,- there's no money in it.
Sorry, your argument doesn't hold up. There is less profit made selling a tube of toothpaste than a copy of Linux, but billions of tubes of toothpaste have been sold.
While a computer company will make less money per Linux sale than per Windoze sale, the lower price means there would be a lot more customer demand for Linux than for Windoze. There would, if Linux had as many Joe-Sixpack-friendly apps, and if the OS itself was as friendly to Joe Sixpack. There, my friend, is exactly why Linux won't make it bigtime.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Maybe you would know: how does the sharpness of a DTV compare to a typical VGA monitor? Do they release dot-pitch specs for DTVs?
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Read much? You can't use the TV-out on the PS2 when you're in Linux mode... It requires a computer monitor.
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
The "entertainment lifestyle" phrase is a very common one in Japanese marketing. It doesn't translate well into US marketing speak, so it feels a bit disengenous to non-Japanese.
Just one of those things people take for granted, since cultural identity has long been substituted by marketing techniques... not just in the US, but everywhere.
Did you consider that perhaps they simply didn't have the time to do any of the above with the release? I wouldn't doubt that Sony made numerous patches to all of the packages listed to make them work on the PS2. If they were releasing an x86 distribution, I might go complaining to them asking why they didn't include, at the very least, glibc 2.2.4, XFree 4.0.3, kernel 2.4.14 or such, a newer version of gcc, and the like. But, keep in mind, this is a highly targeted distribution, probably with a lot of bugfixes and support issues that they did themselves, given the architecture, so it's not worth even bitching about anyway.
Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)
You may have missed it, but the kit includes two DVD's, one of which is all the sources.
I don't know about you, but I don't recall hearing about Windows shipping with a source CD.
The fact that Sony's charging for it is not the point of the GPL. The point is that even though they're charging for it, they still have to release the source. The GPL has never been against selling software.
somebody had to say it.
ubi dubium ibi libertas.
software distribution on two DVDs
What the hell is on those? Multiple versions of every Linux application known to man?
I've just made a patch available today which allows Python to compile for and run on the PS2.
;-)
Python-2.1 for PS2
This should also work on the Sony Linux system, but now I have a great excuse to spend $200 and find out...
Good heavens, I think now hell can freeze over.
JonKatz has posted as an AC.
Sigmentation fault - core dumped
Well, troll, it's not like Sony is trying to bruteforce its way into your living room by selling boxes at a loss. The Linux kit is a nod to hobbyists; one that will undoubtedly score Sony some cash and maybe even encourage independent game development on the PS2.
The XBOX by itself is cheaper, but it seems to be illegal to run Linux on it, (since that apparently requires "circumventing copyright protections") at least in the US.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Also, not having a DVD player (or an Aibo) and not caring if movies and music are crap or not I find it hard to really hate them. I might even pickup a PS2 secondhand or on sale or something one day soon.
Good game BTW. You finished it yet?
-- SIGFPE
so, aren't my old SGI and SUN monitors sync on green? Meaning, I should be able to use those 21 inch mothertruckers with the ps2?
Why, other than the "gosh, wow" factor would anyone want to develop any linux software for PS2? You can count the number of interesting linux games on one hand, so it can't be "porting of games". I could imagine a cheapo beowulf cluster (not THE troll; that's farther down)--seriously, a cluster at $200/node would be great. But, if you have to add another $200 in hardware per node, now you're up in the ballpark of a cheap x86/PPC cluster.
I do think it would be neat to fill out a purchase order for 32 PS2's. I bet the call from accounting would come in about 10 seconds after they got the P.O. request.
Ok, found a FAQ where Sony sez we get access, but through a closed source layer that will enforce their silly rules so no CDs (burned or not) allowed. So perhaps a modchip will fix things?
Democrat delenda est
I have a feeling that after this is released the most popular software to be produced by hobbyist coders will be an "erotic massager" app. This whole thing is a ploy for people to do this, then wear out their controllers, and have to pony up dough for new ones.
Through looking through the FAQ and what people have posted, this distro will NOT allow people to develop games that work on the TV for PS2...not to mention, the ability to make games that will play on your friend's PS2. I'm sure it'll get hacked so you can copy games, but you'd still need the linux distro...
/., maybe it's true). Having Linux running on a PS2 just exposes how shallow that criticism is.
I'm very surprised Sony brings this out, for two reasons:
1) There is no good legitamite reason to own this. As a computer, Linux on a PS2 is something like Linux on the old computer you keep in the attic, except it has weird limitations. The only reason to own this is in anticipation of some hacker figuring a way to play copied games off the HD.
2) Reasons of punditry. Even without paying too much attention to the video game machines, I know Sony marketing is criticizing the XBox as a modified computer, rather than a video game system (which makes no sense to me, but I hear people repeat the charge so much on
Maybe I'm just missing something - as it is, I don't understand why Sony would do this, or why anybody would be hyped about it.
Kamapuaa
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
How is this not off topic?
technically obtuse and underpowered compared to what? the PS2's architecture is amazingly powerful in some ways - that parallel GFX is really pretty radical. And don't flatter yourself, you mean a homeASSEMBLED x86 compatible.
That was classic intercourse!
"the Linux operating system marketshare is expected to reach 38 percent worldwide by 2004." I definitely want some of what these guys are smokin'. Surely even the most rabid linux fantasist doesn't REALLY expect a 40% market share in two years? History might prove me wrong, but no-way, no-how. I want to believe but...
That was classic intercourse!
I think that the more people that support Linux the better, but isn't this taking the fun out of hacking your console?
Hacker Media
Nice for numerical solutions to problems, i.e. Computational Fluid Dynamics. Hmm seem to recall seeing a Cray YMP was 2 GFLOPS, gives a contrast doesn't it. :)
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
where/when can i buy one, as mentioned before the hardware alone would be worth 199 usd.
What about the Xbox? It already has the Ethernet port, hard drive and all. Throw together a keyboard, mouse and DVD with Linux on it, and you could sell it for about $75 (yeah, it might be a bit high, but it's Microsoft, right?).
"I get my jollies building computers" Steve Jobs, 1983
A better translation would be "redefining entertainment."
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao