Slashdot Mirror
The Lure of Heroinware
blankmange writes "news.com reports: When games stop being fun; where the line between reality and fantasy blurs. Another story about games and the adults who can't stop playing them. It seems that we can't be held responsible for our actions -- it must be the 'heroinware' that game companies are producing...." Mmmm, Evercrack. T. pops in: Don't worry, games aren't addictive, but here's the announcement of a 24-hour gaming TV network for those unexplained late-night cravings. (Thanks to joestump98.)
is This!
Ah, heroineware. Tomb Raider 2 was an excellent game. In fact, I'd say that any game with Lara Croft as the heroine is an excellent game.
:)
qslack.com
Comparing games to heroin? Ya, because sometimes I shutter violently if I havn't played for a few hours.
The one that is Heroinwear is definatly Master Of Orion for the PC. That game has me hooked so bad...
Now I wonder if in 20-30 years those stupid Truth ads will have switched from whining about cigarettes to whining about how addictive videogames are?
So thats why my friend hasn't stopped playing Everquest for the past 6 months? Damn you, Sony! Damn you to hell!
Here's an interesting quote from Planetside's FAQ, another game by Verant, the creaters of Everquest:
What is the goal of the game?
To be more addictive than any substance known to man.
Probably said with tongue in cheek, but still, they recognize what their cames can become to some people.
Or does that make them "drug" dealers, since people now like to label them as heroinware makers?
BTW, if you haven't noticed, this post was posted with sarcasm intended. If you didn't get it, go here.
/.'s 10 Millionth
People in general can become addicted to almost anything. Salt,Big Mac's, Pepsi, if there is a way to make reality a little more pleasureable someone is going to do it to excess. For that matter there are QVC addicts. The herd really needs to think about a little self control. Who knows they might enjoy not having blood shot eyes and blisters on their fingers everyday. I doubt it though.
sig this!
The article basically says little more than the fact that some people get addicted to certain things. Oooh, big revelation. What's next, people are addicted to sex? I love how they make it sound like its a problem if people enjoy one thing and spend time on it. Well, if their life is shit and they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it. Duh... =P
Now excuse me, I have to go level up my female elf in EQ before I go porn surfing.
The game had nothing to do with his problems, nor any of the other problems described in this article, and likening video games to heroin is just rediculous.
These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to.
Yeah, I know somebody is going to say 'but they have an addictive personality.' Here's four words for people with addictive personalities, "sucks to be you." I'd try to feel bad for you, but everything can be addicting at some level, and a true addictive personality has to take extra care to make sure that they're getting hooked on good things, like exercise, family, laughter, and prostitutes, and stop blaming the rest of the world for making things you like.
because I doubt the author has ever used heroine. I have used heroine and I've played everquest, there is not comparison. Haroine is a lot more enjoyable and a lot more addictive. The same goes for cocaine. I think that games can be addictive along the same lines as coffee or cigarettes but not hard drugs. The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute, but the heroine addict will keep getting worse as withdrawl sets in. If someone really has a problem with games my best advice is to take up drugs, you will make a lot of friends and you won't think about the games any more.
So does this mean we're going to see the Bush administration launch a War On Video Games(tm)?
06. Name sounds like a system Apple came out with for no reason.
:)
05. Your motto is "Get Game"
04. One of the your "original programs" is a show about simulations of sports.
03. Your target audiance is quite possibly the least likely to watch TV among those with access to them. And you know they have "short attention spans".
02. Executive quoted as saying "We won't compete."*
01. Logo rendered on an Atari 2600. Englarged with MS-Paint.
*A bit of a misquote, I know, but no less funny for it.
My Blog: http://nic.dreamhost.com/
Rediculous. Preposterous. Idiotic. Stupid. Video games addictive? HA!
I'd write more but I have a great game of Civ going...
Heroinware? That sounds like something related to Heroine Virtual's software...
I have never ever been into gaming of any sort, but now I have gotten addicted to Yahoo! Pool (games.yahoo.com). I have played like 1500 games... and I have seen some people on there with over 3000 games under their belt. I talked to a couple of people I played against, who admitted they have been playing for 6 hours or more straight.
Luckily Yahoo! is starting to charge $10 a month of special privileges, like set tourneys. I have forced myself to stay away from those, and the "ladders".
There is nothing really that great about this game, except that its free, and loads up easy into the web browser. Just goes to show that a game doesn't have to be great to be addicting.
Stay away from Yahoo! Pool!
"I think of quitting all the time," she said. "I'm sure there are a lot of departments I'm lacking in now, like I don't pay as much attention to my kids as I should."
So just get your kids to play! Jeez.
And what if they required players to do real tasks in order to gain levels? To become an 8th level cleric, you have to rearrange data on a spreadsheet or something. That way, the player's job could just make their work part of the work in the game. And if you make sure all your family members are playing, and you can all go on quests together!
I think the problem is with the people who aren't playing.
From the article:
Angie said her live-in boyfriend spends at least 30 hours a week playing "EverQuest" as a female elf...
This is supposed to be an example of compulsive behavior? 30 hours a week?! What a fucking lightweight.
When I was a kid, we used to play 30 hours a day. And we didn't have no live-in girlfriend either.
:)
the first one is always free.
You guys are making light of the situation, but it is not so funny for those of us who have been through it...
It started in middle school with the Apple][. Addiction to BASIC kept me from the smell of sweet, sweet glue...
Back in the early 90's, I had to forego many high school drinking parties to play Civilization...
In college, I never went to a rave because I was too busy MUDding--never got to taste Ecstasy
And now that I am gainfully employed, I spend all my spare cash on broadband internet connections and online games--my drug dealer is getting really upset with me!!!
I've spent the better part of the last 3 years playing everquest and I've seen many people waste away.
The players who make up the high level game spend MASSIVE amounts of time in game. I know many people who have over 300+ DAYS of time logged into the game...
Players often quit, only to return a few months later usually with an excuse like *RL is boring* or something similar. Sounds more and more like drug addiction doesn't it?
The thing that worries me the most though is that most of these people are kids who are either in high school or just got out. They have no ambition or desire to do anything but play everquest. When I was their age I was spending all my time programming, reading books, and learning skills necessary to succeed in life. If everquest were around back then, I would probably be working fast food making $6 a hour now.
Almost every game company out there now is making a MMORPG like everquest. Worlds of warcraft, shadowbane, neverwinter nights, final fantasy XI, Everquest for the console, star wars galaxies, daoc, anarchy online, and many more. The market is going to be completely saturated with heroinware in the next fear years.
The current generation of kids growing up is going to be nothing but a bunch of computer crazed, game addicted losers who spend all their time in some virtual world slaying some pixel dragon.
Oh well, I'm glad I quit (again).
That reminds me of a comedy sketch about an addicts' group:
Man: Hi, my name's Joe, and I'm addicted to junk food. I'm not sure I can do this.
Woman: Don't be frightened, tell us your story.
Man: Well, at first it was just a donut here, a chocolate bar there, but then it got out of control... I sucked dick for butter tarts, man!
Woman: My God! That's disgusting! You're beyond help!
*Man walks away in shame*
Woman: Now, let's continue...
*See man walk back, steal tray of desserts*
Other man: Hey! He didn't even suck our dicks!
I suppose I'll be modded down for being off topic, but it was funny at the time. =)
...oOOo..'(_)'..oOOo...
Don't worry, games aren't addictive
Of course games aren't addictive. Games were addictive! Today I was playing Day Of The Tentacle for something like 18 hours, thanks to the brave guys from ScummVM! Special greetings to Ludvig, great work! I'll send you bills from my oculist! :)
OK, now must sleep...
~shiny
WILL HACK FOR $$$
Yeah! ...and you forgot to mention, these heroineware-dealing corporations keep their employees addicted with rewards of equipment, money and status, to keep them playing. By playing the "work game", these unfortunate addicts build up their inventory and equipment, accumulating items such as cars, houses, furniture. These items allow them to "awe" their fellow players, thereby achieving a sort of social approval that they otherwise would not be able to get.
The organizers of "work-games" also set up "quests" and "meetings" in which players assemble and engage in social interaction, all within the context of furthering their game goals. The quest for magical items and treasure brings together individuals who otherwise might not have much social interaction.
When was the last time you heard a european or a japanese person bitching that a game "ruined" their life. Get a fucking grip.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Oops I should use preview more ;)
Here's my post without the typos and spelling errors.
Slashaholics?
Okay this is a pet peeve of mine.
Why do people insist on adding the 'aholics' suffix to mean addiction?.
It's a substring of alcoholics.
Which is derived from alcohol.
Why not Slashdot Addicts?
I know I'm going to hell, I'm just trying to get good seats.
Apparently G4, the gaming channel is only going to be avalible for Comcast out of the box. However, go to the g4tv website and if you wade through all the flash you can write an EMAIL to your provider demanding G4.
/. effect for good! :)
With digital cable and DSS providers and their excessive channel capacitiy, all that needs to be done is have your voice heard and I'm sure we'll get it everywhere soon. Use the
The addiction itself is not always a Bad Thing. Thank God that this guy and few other maniacs were addicted to music.
~shiny
WILL HACK FOR $$$
Erm, no. "Incontinent" means "lacking control". "Incompetent" wouldn't make any sense here.
While you're very wrong about the withdrawal symptoms (at least from what I've witnessed; I've never experienced them myself, but I've never seen a flu victim scream like that), you're quite right that heroin is physically barely addictive at all. It takes a while to get hooked. Moreover, it does no damage to your body at all (except at the point of entry).
visit the hwky website for a lyrical genius infusion.
*pops open telnet* *hits score*
;))
You are 2130 years old (50689 hours).
Mm, almost six years. Granted, I'm staff, not a player, per say. And, some of it was from idling while sleeping. I do the same with EverCrack on occasion, and so do many others. (Though, while, I sit there with a logfile open to rack up prices in North Freeport, others sometimes end up with the words ertyui dfghjk cvbn imprinted on their heads.
EverCrack and 'new age' games are hardly addictive compared to those of yesteryear. I've seen M* players with a hell of a lot more rabid loyalty to their game than any EQ/DAoC/AO/etc. player.
I've seen people spend upwards of 20 hours playing Mortal Kombat.. Street Fighter.. Killer Instinct..
Gauntlet.
This type of spewage about video games being addictive is one of two things. Beating a dead horse, or trolling for slashdot hits.
Yep lets blame those people because they dont take responsibility.
that statement is:
-very old and has been repeated millions times for alchoholics, drug addicts, overeaters, undereaters, gamblers, people with depression etc.
-shortsighted
-completely useless because it has never helped anyone and tends to force people deeper into their addictions.
I'm computer addicted, though I play no online games.
I don't think one can blame the game so much as the medium and what it allows one to do.
There's something very mesmerizing about the screen in general (look at all the TV addicts) and it gets even more compelling with interaction.
Are you addicted? Take this online test and see.
This page also contains some good information and links.
I am trying to wean myself of all but the most necessary computer use, but so far it's not going too well.
I thought of a system that would disconnect my internet connection except at certain hours (since that seems to be the biggest part of the problem), but I would probably just get around it if I wanted to. Or maybe not... could be a good start.
Anyone with any suggestions please reply!
Ahhh!
*blind ignorance sets in and an air of superiority is asserted*
Of course you must of meant Dope Wars!
I stole this Sig
It's just that our real lives tend to suck. This makes fantasy lives so appealing... Can we hope for the day when our real lives are as stimulating and rewarding as the games are today?
My blog can kick your blog's ass
...like Laura Croft. MMMmmmm.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Inability to stop the activity
Neglect of family and friends
Lying to employers and family about activities
Problems with school or job
Carpal tunnel syndrome
Dry eyes
Failure to attend to personal hygiene
Sleep disturbances or changes in sleep patterns"
And exactly HOW are these symptoms different from my brief episode of masturbation addiction? or any other addiction, really. Or, say, a hard day at work? But who am I to question them? They ARE the experts.
understmdT. pops in: "Don't worry, games aren't addictive" Most games are not addictive. Only a particular type, and the reasons are still unraveling. This is a new type of addiction. Anonymous Coward: "if...they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it." The problem is they do not enjoy it. They are miserable as a resul of playing it. That's why the article is called "When games stop being fun". mosch: "...but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to." Something happens in the brain with this particular type of game that is just like what happens when someone is taking an addictive drug. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. That's why there is ever increasing coverage of it. It is a bizarre unexpected new addiction. danny256: "The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute" There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing. Sound like I am speaking from experience? I am. It is a very bizarre problem to which I and others are giving a great deal of thought to figure out why this happens and only with a particular type of game. I have always enjoyed spending long hours playing video games. Keyword: "enjoy". Now something very different happens with an MMORPG. At first it was fun like any other game or enjoyable activity. You are having more fun than before you were playing. But eventually and very slowly, so slowly that you don't realize it is happening, it changes. If I knew it would happen or could see it happening I wouldn't have played. Well, I am not going to go into all the details, but it did get to the point where I was experiencing hallucinations. I had gotten so low and was so miserable that I finally knew I had to stop cold turkey or I never would get out of it alive. I knew I feel much worse for a while before I felt better, but I knew I had to stop. Well, it was a while ago, and I am all better now. Totally over it. It was an educational experience. I have learned from it. Like I said if I had known that would happen, would never have started playing. And thats the reason for all this attention this new form of addiction is getting. People need to know. I think there should be a warning label, though most people, at least at first, will not take it seriously, will not believe it could happen to them, but awareness will increase and eventually understanding the problem will be common knowledge. Note, this doesn't happen with everyone. Certain people are probably genetically predisposed just like with alcoholism. Knowing alcolism runs in one's family, those people avoid alcohol. foo fighter: "Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste." Thank you. I hope this posting has increased someone's understanding of the problem.
How do these folks come up with the money to pay for their gaming habit? If they haven't left the house for years, I'm going to assume that means that they don't have jobs.
I'm sure a lot of people would be quick to interject the fact that EQ items are sold all the time on online auction services, but I think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that they're all doing that. What seems to be the case is that mommy and daddy are paying for their habit.
If mommy and daddy are taking financial responsibility for their habit, what would make sense would be to stop paying for it. How can you blame Sony for offering an addictive service if you're the one who's feeding them money?
I say put one of these so-called addicts in their own apartment, maybe pay for their rent and food, and see how long their addiction lasts. Think about what would happen if you were to kick one of these folks out of the house? Or if you were to destroy the power cable running from the PSU (or indeed soon, PS2) to the wall?
I'm not going to say that I don't play more than my share of Q3A or UT, but for Christ's sake, what's going to happen if you do some kind of drastic action that forces them to quit cold turkey? Are they going to get a case of "the shakes" or something?
The whole OD thing isn't very cool at all though. That can really fuck you up.
T. pops in: "Don't worry, games aren't addictive"
Most games are not addictive. Only a particular type, and the reasons are still unraveling. This is a new type of addiction.
Anonymous Coward: "if...they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it."
The problem is they do not enjoy it. They are miserable as a resul of playing it. That's why the article is called "When games stop being fun".
mosch: "...but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to."
Something happens in the brain with this particular type of game that is just like what happens when someone is taking an addictive drug. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. That's why there is ever increasing coverage of it. It is a bizarre unexpected new addiction.
danny256: "The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute"
There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing.
Sound like I am speaking from experience? I am. It is a very bizarre problem to which I and others are giving a great deal of thought to figure out why this happens and only with a particular type of game. I have always enjoyed spending long hours playing video games. Keyword: "enjoy". Now something very different happens with an MMORPG. At first it was fun like any other game or enjoyable activity. You are having more fun than before you were playing. But eventually and very slowly, so slowly that you don't realize it is happening, it changes. If I knew it would happen or could see it happening I wouldn't have played. Well, I am not going to go into all the details, but it did get to the point where I was experiencing hallucinations. I had gotten so low and was so miserable that I finally knew I had to stop cold turkey or I never would get out of it alive. I knew I feel much worse for a while before I felt better, but I knew I had to stop.
Well, it was a while ago, and I am all better now. Totally over it. It was an educational experience. I have learned from it. Like I said if I had known that would happen, would never have started playing. And thats the reason for all this attention this new form of addiction is getting. People need to know. I think there should be a warning label, though most people, at least at first, will not take it seriously, will not believe it could happen to them, but awareness will increase and eventually understanding the problem will be common knowledge.
Note, this doesn't happen with everyone. Certain people are probably genetically predisposed just like with alcoholism. Knowing alcolism runs in one's family, those people avoid alcohol.
foo fighter: "Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste."
Thank you.
I hope this posting has increased someone's understanding of the problem.
There was a time when my "Asheron's Call" addiction was getting a bit out of hand... to the point where my girlfriend was starting to complain a bit... my solution? Buy a second account and have her create a character of her own... she's since become addicted as I am. We now spend loads of time together as a "Warrior" and a "Mage" almost every night... problem solved! :)
The statement isn't useless. Telling screwed-up people to "take responsibility" may or may not help them. If it helps everyone else realize that, basically, their addictions are their problem and not my problem, then I'm better off.
Useless to the addicted? Maybe.
Useless to people who want to play a game (or do more-or-less anything) without worrying about someone else's personal shortcomings? No. Very useful.
First, the causes: there seems to be two camps, personified by some other comments to this story. The first response, which I suppose we can call the socio-cultural cause, implies that people become addicted to these games because society has created an environment in which the individuals feel no particular motivation to participate in what we would call normal behaviour patterns. The post in this example has claimed that in fact individuals who are not shown basic respect tend to withdraw to their own space. I think that this is largely true. But to claim that individuals who have so-called addictive personalities should not accept responsibility for their behaviour is also not quite right. Of course, the poster that I have referred to did no such thing but the next poster that I will refer to seems to imply that that is the case.
So this is the second comment, and it is one that essentially berates individuals with addictive personalities as being weak-minded, lesser people because of their difficulties. This too is the wrong approach. As with everything, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. It is probably true that socio-cultural factors have a lot to do with the creation of not only people with addictive personalities but in fact with personalities, period. Many theorists have suggested this and I think it's clear that the evidence bears it out. Put simply, when talking about selves or, if you prefer, subjects, culture is both the constructor and the constructed. The point that I want to make, however, is that in the case of addictions and addictive people, this fact ought to be made aware to them in a proper setting, such as a therapists's office or in the confidence of a close and trusted friend. What I mean to say, of course, is that a person with an addiction problem needs to be treated with respect and understanding such that they may be able to come to realize that, once they are made aware of the elements of the world around them that construct their realities, they can and should choose to alter their outlook and thus alter their behaviour.
So really my point is just that while personalities are socially constructed they are also able to be reformed by people who become intellectually aware of their situation. This is an important point, and it's the point that, I think, bridges the gap between mosch's point and Chasing Amy's point. Also, I want to suggest that there is a good reason to begin to examine in empirical detail how it is that culture shapes subjects and thus how we need to change our culture to change how subjects are. This would seem to alleviate a large number of our problems, if it could be done.
Also keep in mind that the addiction that is talked about in the news.com article is pretty serious. It's probably not a good idea to confuse occasional game-playing with real addiction.
-- This sig is.
NOUN??? Rediculous is an ADJECTIVE, cocksucker!!!
so what?
Anyway, I'd say you really have a problem if you find yourself drinking coffee and masturbating while playing everquest.
I can no longer easily count the friends I have seen do serious damage to their "real" lives by playing these games. I know numerous people who have lost their jobs, signifigant others, social lives, and even their sanity due to addictions to EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, and StarCraft. Sometimes in my circle of friends, I am the weird one for being the person who goes out and interacts with the real world, and not vice versa.
What really scares me, though, is that I don't find the term heroinware at all offensive, because I actually know more people who have completely ruined their lives with these games than I do people who have ruined everything with drugs - and at least the drug users manage to quit!
Seriously, this problem is just beginning to rear its ugly head. Once Blizzard releases World of Warcraft, things are going to get really, really nasty, as entire offices have their IT departments stripped on important "game days." And that will be the beginning of the end for these virtual worlds; as companies lose the benefits of computers to an increasing number of problem staff members, there WILL be some sort of legislation to wean geeks away from these games.
Really.
So I'm seeing a lot of "but anything is potentially addictive" posts. That's besides the point. If you are playing Everquest, you suck. You are almost certainly addicted. No, really. We're not joking here. You suck. Stop it. Give yourself a slap on the face, shower, and go outside.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
Better "smackware"
Java is the blue pill
Choose the red pill
ummm... assuming you get righteous stuff. Most of the physical problems are from the crud used to cut it.
It does, however, kill appetite. and plays havok with your workout schedule. so some degeneration is gonna happen.
basically, all I'm saying is that it ain't health food. and it's worse than TV in it's impact on your social life.
No one really laughs at gambling addiction; why isn't gaming addiction taken seriously? Researchers have found that gambling generates similar brain patterns as cocaine usage. Gaming certainly shares many characteristics with gambling.
As someone who has personally become addicted to all sorts of games ranging from Civ to RPGs to Mechwarrior to Tetris, I think gaming addictions should be studied seriously.
Speaking of which, what am I doing here, at this hour???
Look on the bright side. When World of Warcraft 2 causes the degredation and eventual collapse of all productive organizations worldwide, society will no longer be able to sustain the power grid and everyone will be cut off anyway. In the long run, it's really a non-issue.
...this gives new meaning the the "shoot-em-up" genre.
Just watch, we're going to get drug sims pretty soon. "All the high without the disease!"
I just LOVE Wil Wheaton!! I'm so HAPPY he posts to Slashdot!!!!!! I hope one day I'll be as COOL and FAMOUS as him!!!!!!!!! :):):):):):)
Wow, that would make such a great RTS...
You could play on one of three sides: Evil government operatives trying to end video gaming as we know it, valiant heroes defending our right to slaughter each other in cyberspace, and the poor video-game-addicted sops who are in the middle of it all.
The key to making this game succeed would be to include lawyers walking around as ambient creatures like the sheep in Warcraft II. If you click on them enough times, they explode.
Snarkiness is inversely proportional to wisdom because it emphasizes feeling right rather than being right.
The original post was NOT a pun. Dammit, that's why it was so funny. People like me get it, but people like you don't get it. It deserves to be modded up because it's extremely funny to anyone with a decent grasp of English orthography.
Heroin is a narcotic.
A Heroine is a female hero.
Heroineware must have something to do with female heros, because heroine has nothing to do with the opiate.
I just can't bring myself to care even one little bit about people that get "addicted" to everquest and the like. If it turns kids into "computer crazed, game addicted losers" like you say then thats perfectly fine with me. Makes for more opportunities for those who can control themselves. Kinda like natural selection. I have absolutely no respect or compassion for those who allow themselves to be sucked into something that IS NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE. Yes I see how it could happen but anyone with an iota of sense can easily avoid it. And of course everyone wants to shove the blame on someone else. "aww, everquest ruined my life, I'm gonna sue." SHUT UP! If you can't take responsibility for your own actions and just want to leech off of others you might as well just jump off a cliff right now.
You would be surprised how many "normal people" are actually heroin addicts.
Lawyers, bussinessmen, actors, etc.
Y'know, there are some things that should be regulated while your still under your parents roof. I know, it pains me to say it, but it's true. And through all this Ever-crack/Heroin-ware BS, I have to ask myself "Where are the parents?!" You simply can't expect a kid to know what's good for them. I sure as hell didn't (Heh, I may be the exception). But how you could just blindly ignore that aspect of your child's developement is beyond me. I would think somewhere parents would be noticing a problem developing and intervene. "Hey, little Jimmy's seems to withdrawing from the world, spending a lot of time playing Q3/Everquest. You think there might be a problem?"
It's not a problem with our games. It's a problem with our families. Especially if they're at work a good chunk of the time. Yeah, they're making a living for the family while Jimmy's brain is dissolving on "acid-ware" or any of the innumerable activities a kid can get in trouble at. Just one example. I'm not Dr. Spock here, but kids need supervision and some form of regulation in their activities... ~sigh~
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I don't think it's so much a matter of not getting it as it is a matter of finding it too pedantic to be particularly funny.
first:
it's about time there's a video game network! the electric playground is SOOOO lame! i especially hate the fatter blondish one!
second:
why are all these fags playing everquest? why not try a REAL game, like URBAN TERROR. i find myself logging in at least 2 hours a day, on BUSY days, when i really, really, swore to myself i wouldn't. i like all modes, but especially CTF with a live friend teammate (on my inhouse LAN) against an unfair amount of bots (2:1 bots:us). snipe on the way there, switch to the machine gun and spray and pray back to the base.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
...Now i'm going to go back to playing Dark Age of Camelot.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
First one's free! :)
Britney Spears
McDonalds
The War on Terror/Drugs/Brown People
Windows
Duke Nukem Never
Anything Oprah says
Larry FucKING Ellison and his Big Brother Oracle
SUVs
Wine Coolers
Pet Rocks
Pokemon
Jerry Springer
The Olympics
Creed..I mean Perl Jam...no, I mean Creed.
Scienfuckingtology
Cigarettes
Miss Fake-ass Cleo
DisneyLand/World/Movies
Beanie Babies and the Cultist Collectors of Crap
Packard Bell
Star Wars - The Movie, and the Politicians who want to make it.
Senator Hollings and his Bills o' Plenty (what's the focus group tested name this week?)
Dick Cheney is in perfect health.
Planet Hollingswood
Michael Jackson
AOL - Now eaiser to use!
The Ab Rider/Blaster/Roller/Master/Baiter
There are many more, of course. Just watch any TV channel, radio station, magazine, ect. The difference between personal responsibillity and corporate responsibillity is easy to see. Corporate responsibillity is to see that you buy what they are selling. YOU are responsible for weighing the pros and cons of the decisions YOU make. You want to play EQ for 40 hours a week? Fine. Just make sure you turned off the oven. You want to smoke a half of Green? Better make sure you still got your job.
In other words: Take the fall you set yourself up for and stop fucking whining about how it's 'not my fault :( Wahhh'
unless u hnag tout with a bucn h of heorin junkeis of courxse !
But before Everquest and Ultima there were addicting games. I remember logging hours and hours with CIV1 in Highschool. In College I remember logging obscene amounts of time playing UT and chatting late into the night on ICQ.
And yes, I cut some classes. In fact, so did my roommate. He cut so many classes playing computer games he had to drop out! He even skipped an exam because he was too busy playing games on his computer.
basically what I am saying is the problem has always been around. Before MMRPGS, these shy, anti-social people might have just read books to escape.
Heck, Simon and Garfunkel wrote about this in the 60's:
I am an island
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me
I am shielded in my armor
Hiding in my room
Safe within my womb
I touch no-one and no-one touches me
I am a rock
I am an island
And the rock feels no pain
And an island never cries
Alex
I think it's just not funny. Mod it "-1 Overrated".
Are you saying that AMERICA is responsible for 911? Who are you? Saddam HUSSEIN? It was OSAMA BIN LADEN and his Iraqi buddies who did it. And we're gonna go and KICK THEIR BUTTS straight after we finish KICKING THE BUTTS of Afghanistan. USA! USA! USA!
It's an attitutde problem. Life is as exciting as we choose to make it, but our attitudes about life make it seem narrow and confining. If we were as open to trying things in life as we were in games I think a lot of us would be more fulfilled and engaged. Is it just that games give us the ability to take chances without the fear of consequences? Maybe. Nobody ever died for real playing a video game, no one was *really* humiliated for real because they did something stupid in EverQuest. Maybe it's more of an ego problem than an attitude problem....
-- thinkyhead software and media
Only they would modedrate this as -1,troll. Every one else would moderate it as 5, Insightful!
I've always found computer games much more addicting than drugs
http://www.geocities.com/individualistanarchist/
I played Dark Age of Camelot for two months - If I had invested that time in working out, I would probably be able to do one-handed push-ups by now.
Maybe if I was addicted to pr0n I could do that too though...
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Kinda makes you want to unplug your computer and go outside for a while doesn't it...
I do find the term slightly herionware slightly offensive. Have you ever known someone to die from a game?
That's right, I'm a First Post Addict!
dude, are you smoking crack or what?
smack is addictive dude... what kind of idiot are you? Like, a professional idiot???
One highly addictive webgame is HatTrick, a soccer manager game. It bases it success (constantly 1500 users logged in) on a very strong community and a stable continuity.
Gameplay is slow, forcing users to interact between games. Excellent idea.
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tp c&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=4890969924
I'm sure the Bush administration secretly loves any genre of entertainment which they think desensitizes people to killing, and shortens their attention span.
:-)
The first, because they need a future generation of soldiers who don't care about the people who die when fire Hellfire missiles from a remotely piloted drone - "if it happens on the little screen it's just a game!". Ronald Reagan, I believe, stated that video games were good training for future fighter pilots
The second, because they've seen how effective some carefuly controlled TV is at reducing the vast majority of people to semi-sentient sheep, unable to intelligently analyze their own government's actions.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Drug dealers: Refer to their clients as "users"
Software developers: Refer to their clients as "users"
DD: "The first one's free!"
SD: "Download a free trial version..."
DD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help move the stuff).
SD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help debug the code).
DD: Strange jargon (Stick, Rock, Dime Bag, E)
SD: Strange jargon (SCSI, RTFM, Java, DSL)
DD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.
SD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.
DD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, more potent mixes.
SD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, faster machines.
DD: Often seen in the company of pimps and hustlers.
SD: Often seen in the company of marketing people and venture capitalists.
DD: Their product causes unhealthy addictions.
SD: Doom, Quake, SimCity, Duke NukeEm 3D, 'Nuff said?
DD: Do your job well, and you can sleep with sexy movie stars who depend on you.
SD: Drats! Drats! Drats! Drats!
Since reality is getting harder everyday that passes by, and since I can do many things in EverQuest(or any other game) that I can't in real life, why not be addicted ?
why do we need girlfriends, money, bathing, food, etc ?
Wouldn't it be better if we all hooked up in a matrix ?
Once i was almost at a point where i would have considered myself addicted to Ultima Online...I was on the phone with my girlfriend at the time, and some loser PK'ed my guy...i was tangibly pissed off for a while, and it showed. then she said something, and it was like a slap in the face...made me realize "WTF...oh yeah, this is just a game"..
And it is just a game, of course. Until i see some data proving otherwise, its no more addicting than chocolate, pr0n, or even reading (And yes folks, i do know some people who read so much they are out of touch with reality as a result)
I'm not sure if I think this is a mental issue ("addictive personality" sort of thing) or if it is just maturity, the same thing as making a kid put down his Pokemon and do his homework.
To suggest that Blizzard et. al are taking advantage of people who get 'hooked' like this is ridiculous, when you consider the VAST majority of players, and thus the most subcriptions, are from people who play in moderation. Though truth be told, they do need players like this, as they make up a large part of the upper tier of the MMORPG world--perhaps the advancement model can be redone so as to not require such a time investment, but that would take away alot of the motivation for *Anyone* to be high-level, that is it wouldnt be special anymore.
Bottom line, this is not an addiction in the drug- sense of the word, but on the same level as eating, slashdotting, reading, masturbation, or over-exercise. Its not that these people can't stop, they dont want to badly enough to find a healthy alternative.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
FreeCIV,
the only game I am really addicted to is FreeCIV, dpkg -P freeciv is the only thing that helps me in those times. Like AAs the only way is to not play at all. If this is no addiction, what is it?
The OS programmers are guilty as hell. Damn dealers!
Thanks anyways, great game... uoohh no, not again!
Addictive games? What utter cra--- Must kill porings.... *Goes back to Ragnarok Online*
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
So, if there is postcardware; and mailware (yes, I have heard of it), can I assume that heroinware involves the sending of the drug to the author of the product in return for registration?
I like karma. Feed me.
certainly games can be addictive! Anything can be!
perhaps it isnt a physical addiction but at least a psychological. (Though it might be physical as well, that you get addicted to your own hormons/neurotransmitters which are set free when you're playing some ego shooter)
Can someone else testify to the amount of time people spend on the mmorpgs?
My roommate plays daoc roughly 6-7 hrs/day on the weekdays and ~10 on each weekend day, for about 50 hrs/wk.
He's not going to even try to play the pvp server b/c he can't compete with the "hard-core" players and the "uber" chars.
pun, n.
A play on words, sometimes on different senses of the same word and sometimes on the similar sense or sound of different words.
Now, how was that not a pun?
Extensive chat features give such games a social aspect missing from offline activities,
I hear offline activities are supposed to have more of a social aspect... unless Becker is implying the obvious, in which case he gets points for tact. Kind of.
The coolest voice ever.
Given our track record in this area, what's more likely is that there will be doomed attempts - driven by ratings grabbing media hysterics - to ban "these" games. Note that "these" games will always mean whatever people with addictive personalites become addicted to.
First they came for EverQuest, but that didn't worry me because I didn't play EverQuest... and so on.
What we will never do is to actually address the problem of people with addictive personalities. We'll carry on doing what we do now, which is to provide patchy and erratic treatment programs for a few select substances. We have programs for heroin uses, programs for alcohol users, programs for nicotene users. But how many people kick heroin (some through methodone), get chalked up as a success, then go on kill themselves with alcohol or the tar and toxic additives in cigarettes?
Newsflash: people with addictive personalities will become addicted to addicting substances or activities. What we need are clinics where you can walk in and say "I'm an addict", and you get helped to find a new addiction that's less prone to binge abuse of tainted substances, and that's less socially destructive.
The reason why we'll never have that (I believe) is that then billionaire scions of the US Royal Families might end up in the same program as the lowest scum from the streets that they exploit to pay for their cocaine habits. Think that one through. Substance based treatments ensure that you generally mix with Your Sort of Person. That sounds pretty cynical, but if you look at our track record of banning substances specifically to ostracise and criminalise certain ethnic and social groups, it really makes sense.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
"A Wisconsin woman has blamed "EverQuest" in the suicide late last month of her 21-year-old son, who had a history of mental health problems and was an obsessive "EverQuest" player"
Okay, just because Psychos play a game does not mean that said game is a causal factor in making psychos.
How many years have we been saying this about D&D?
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I've been addicted to marijuana, pr0n and evercrack. Marijuana was the most expensive, pr0n was the hardest to quit, and evercrack was the most debilitating to my life (the other 2 came VERY close though).
When you first start everquest, and any addiction it gives you a real rush, but diminishing returns start kicking in. The good thing with everquest is theres so many in game problems that after playing for 6 months for 10 hours a day you will get tired of it and hopefully quit cold turkey like I did. If not you can go high level and cash out your gear for big bucks.
Anyway I urge all of you fellow geeks to give up your pr0n and evercrack...you will feel better like I do now, trust me.
Learn to know, the dark side of the force, and you will achieve a power greater than any Jedi...the power to save your w
I just registered heroinware.com. Hmm, what should I do with it?
Miko O'Sullivan
An addiction is the "compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly: persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful."
An obsession is "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling; broadly: compelling motivation (e.g. an obsession with profits)."
Gaming to the detriment of one's grades, social life, or work is an obsession because there is no build of up tolerance, nor are there withdrawal symptoms. Please note the difference. Thank you.
I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
Korea already has a Starcraft channel on cable.
People like me get it, but people like you don't get it.
Because the original "heroineware" post was so subtle. The link to the definition of heroine was an especially subtle touch.
I'm conducting online interviews with gaming "addicts" as part of a theater production that will tour college campuses in the fall. Contact me via my website if you want to know more.
Howard Dean for president
I sincerely hope they plan to wage this war against "the axis of evil" in Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer. Cause I can never get enough help killing those damn Nazis! They always respawn! Damnit!
I remember a wired story from way back talking about tetris being a pharmogenic drug. Apparently, the part of your brain that does that kind of stuff always gets the same amount of sugar, and the more you play tetris, the more efficient that chunk o' noggin becomes. The surplus in sugar due to increased efficiency gives it a bit of a kick...the cycle continues-more tetris, more efficiency, more kick.
So yes, some video games have been classified as being physically addictive. Explains all the tetris dreams I had when I was younger.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
"Environments like 'EverQuest' can help a person if they're shy or have trouble forming social relationships," he said. "They have this environment where they can safely try new things out. They can experiment with being more vocal, or they can try out a leadership role, which may not be an opportunity they have in real life. Especially for teenagers, it lets them try out different roles and identities at a time when they may be really struggling with those kinds of issues." Are you sure this is one of the advantages ? .. I mean won't that like suck them further into the fantasy world and make them more anti social ?
Nethack... nethack... need... more... nethack... must... have nethack!!!
The trouble with articles like this and many of the comments I read is that they use the word addiction and thus ignore the social dimension of stuff like Everquest or Asheron's Call. This is not "Pac Man Fever" we're talking about here, but most of the articles are just portraying it as such. In other words, Pac Man was "addictive" these other games are more advanced and therefore "more addictive." They don't take into account that these have almost no relationship to Pac Man and the like and are more like British Legends on Compuserve back in the 80's if you want to trace their lineage (and yes, I'm sure there were other MUDs before that that's just the first one I was ever on.)
By ignoring the peer pressure and social issues, people are getting no insights on these games.
The metaphor is all wrong, if people want a metaphor for online gaming, it is more like joining a gang or a fraternity than it is like getting hooked on crack.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
The Bush Administration has already launched a War On Nude Statue Boobies, and therefore their resources are already being strained. The War On Video Games must wait.
How unfortunate. If you were just another mouthy 18 year old dork, your glee at the thought of "kicking the shit" out of people with addictions might be understandable. But since you've been around so long, and learned so little in that time, you're pretty pathetic.
Intervention for addicts is sometimes required. Sadism is not.
Take a Brain Mind and Body course and you'll learn that games trigger the same response as drugs like heroine. The more competitive the gameplay, the more addictive it can be.
:)
So cook up, I'm going to spend the rest of the day playing urban terror
Language used to describe addictive disorders can be misleading because the words describe other conditions. Commonly used, abuse is a pejorative term that implies voluntary unlawful conduct and does not necessarily connote a disease state, as such. Dependence is a term derived from pharmacology and describes a physiologic state of adaptation that occurs after chronic use of a drug. Tolerance refers to the state in which the physical or behavioral effects of a constant dose of a drug decrease over time, or when a greater amount of the substance is required to produce the same effect. Dependence and tolerance occur with many pharmacologic agents, besides addictive substances. The word addiction is commonly used to describe a repertoire of pathologic behaviors that serve to maintain drug use (e.g., lying, stealing, purchase of illegal drugs).
Although the above text relates more to abuse/dependence of pharmacologic agents (i.e. illicit drugs like heroin and cocaine) the definitions also apply to other things that can be abused and lead to addictive behaviors.
The actual amount of time spent doing a given activity is not neccessarily what determines if a person is addicted or not. It's related more to how that person's life is negatively affected. For example, let's compare two people: Person A works a regular 9-5 job and is responsible for providing financial support for his family. He plays 30 hours a week. Person B is a teenager on summer vacation who's staying home all day to play Everquest for 60 hours a week. He has fewer responsibilities than Person A. It's obvious that if Person A's playing interferes with his life to the point where he's neglecting his family and his job, he's an addict. Person B might not be considered an addict if his life isn't as dysfunctional. It's not a matter of how long you play, it's how your playing affects your life.
Your actions on earth echo in eternity.
It's amazing how many people who want to tell you about drugs aren't doctors.
your glee at the thought of "kicking the shit" out of people with addictions might be understandable.
Where did you get "glee" from that? I said that they needed someone to do that if they spent more than a few hours a week playing the game.
But since you've been around so long, and learned so little in that time, you're pretty pathetic.
And just what makes you so smug in your belief that I am wrong or that I have learned "so little"? What makes you the expert on interventions when it comes to computer game addiction? Do you think that quietly reasoning with people that have lost their jobs and abandoned their families to play computer games will "cure" them?
Intervention for addicts is sometimes required. Sadism is not.
Please stop being melodramatic. I didn't suggest that people beat them with coat hangers, burn them with torches, or otherwise torture them. I used a colloquialism. In fact, I went on to say They need someone who will walk up to their computer, push them away from it, kill their imaginary character, give away all of the imaginary crap that they've amassed in the game, and unplug their Internet connection.
That hardly puts me in the same category with the Marquis de Sade and Jeff Dahmer.
P.S. I went to your web site and I find it disappointing that someone with whom I share political views would introduce himself in the way that you did.
I got a timeout after the initial submission and tried to recreate it only to discover the original had been processed after all.
Wasn;t there the case in Florida where an infant died due to the neglect from its game-addicted father?
I think the comparison to heroin is fair. Most people agree that heroin is far more psychologically addictive than it is physically addictive.
So we can add games to the long list of psychologically addictive activities, including TV, movies, porn, news, working too much, or cheating on your spouse.
Problem is, as urban cliff-dwellers, the possiblity of engaging in uplifting social and wholesome activities is severely severely limited by our environment.
What would we do without these addictive socially-destructive activities? Go for a walk in the woods with the family? Build a barn? Plant a garden? Anything remotely outdoor or social takes too much effort, money and planning to be at all workable, which is why people don't do them very often, and only when they're really sick of TV.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
It would be a lot better for the game industry if these companies, including others like IGN.com, and Gamespy.com would work together on various projects.
Intelligence is a matter of opinion.
OK, yes, if you actually follow the link (I didn't). Would have been better without it.
You got it all wrong chief...this is all just step 1...next stop...the matrix.
I think the problem here is the definition of the word. Being a 'power gamer' doesn't mean you get to wear a lycra shirt and hailed as a hero, generally 'powergamers' is a derogatory term used for those that 'play' the game rather than play the game.
You know, they'll do anything to maximise their stats or their score, even if it makes the game boring, stupid or repetitive. Stuff like camping on spawn points, finding what grants the greatest benefit in terms of their numbers and doing it over and over again. If doing something that looks completely stupid will give them a minor advantage, they'll do it. Their own 'enjoyment' of the game comes entirely from the numbers, not the experience of the game itself, and there's a strong compulsion to keep building them up.
Funny you should mention it, thrashing people with coathangers does little to discourage people from playing games like Everquest ( My friend can vouch for the ineffectiveness of such methods ).
Although the article does not mention it, Wil Wheaton is one of the hosts on the new G4 all-games network. As he describes on his website, he is having a great time playing games, writing and talking about them. A job many of us would envy!
I was heavily addicted to D2 for a while, and Counter-Strike and almost got hooked on DoC. Any game I buy I usually finish in the first week or two, ALL my spare time would go into solving it. Amazingly enough, I have not played any games at all for the past couple months since I bought a house - now I'm busy repairing stuff and taking care of the lawn, etc.. I'm sure I'll start playing games again, but when you have an alternative activity that's significant and you like to some degree you're much less likely to spend the time you finish work to the time you go to bed (+ some) totally devoted to a game.
Not sure, but I know a guy who gave his daughter away to his mother-in-law when his wife quit her job to play EQ 24/7, and wasn't feeding/changing the baby while he was at work...
Any expert on gender roles amongst elves in here?
Parent has been modded funny. Could there be some truth in the joke?
Bash can be very addictive too. Or think of reboots. Some people seem to be reboot addicts. Reboot macht frei or something.
I do find the term slightly herionware slightly offensive. Have you ever known someone to die from a game?
I have not known a single person who has died from herion, that I know of. Same goes for Everquest.
If that wasn't the case we could call it "Everhol" and its users Everholics.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
I was thinking of games that had a female heroine... like Tomb Raider...
Hmmm... maybe I need to get a life AWAY from the openGL screen...
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
The year was 1991, and I discovered MUDding via the University's VAX system. My MUD was Genesis, and if anyone was around back then, I was AXL.
We'd stay up til dawn playing (this was TEXT based), crash for a few, then try to do classes. If we could find an open lab on campus and not in the dorm basement, bonus...uninterrupted time.
My grades took a hit, my health took a hit, and all I did was drink and play Genesis. Thankfully, I got a job out of state for the summer with NO net access...that broke my addiction. I tried to go back, but the lure was never the same.
So, when I hear about something like Everquest or Ultima Online, I avoid it, since I KNOW I'd get sucked in, and I have even less time today then I did back then!
"There are some really great kids out there who are ignored and rejected because they don't play a sport."
Great kids are ignored and rejected anyhow. I was ignored and rejected, despite being a team captain who earned 9 varsity letters. My point is, forget high school and concentrate on what comes after.