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Satellite Radio - XM vs. Sirius?
"So far I have gathered that XM seems to have better audio quality, and a larger selection of music channels. Sirius has less music channels, but more "commercial free" music channels and more talk channels. Also, it scares me that Clear Channel has a stake in XM -- does this mean XM will eventually turn to utter crap like every Clear Channel station seems to have? Does Clear Channel have enough ownership to have a say in programming?
I'm looking for more strengths and weaknesses from people who have used one (or better yet, both!) of the services. I'm leaning towards XM right now, with the Clear Channel issue being my main fright. Sirius streams their stations online, giving me a good sample. So far I have been fairly impressed. But, I like the fact that XM carries Art Bell, more than one 80's station, and VH1 content. It's a toss up, so I'm looking forward to some info from the Slashdot community."
I believe Sirius is ad-free (and also unlaunched until 7/1).
If i were you i'de jsut invest in an In-Dash MP3 Player, they're not that expensive. It give you the freedom of selecting your own music and over the long run it will actually save you money.
A rabbit in the hand is worth 4 in the cage
you might want to also look into the price on recievers. do all recievers support sirus and XM? if not, which are cheaper? Check Crutchfield for prices on recievers.
There's no "I" in Linux.. err..
but very, very little of sirius. i think that statement speaks for itself.
go with XM. however, be aware of the numerous add-ons that cost $$$ (like an XM tuner), as well as the activation fee (even more $$$). it's only $10 a month after you've spent upwards of 500-600 bucks...
Me email iz skyewalkerluke at microsoft's free email service.
There always has to be one of you.... thanks for nothing insightful or even funny.
Your mammas flamebait.
I've been interesting in getting an XM radio myself, however I simply cannot live without my local talk radio station. Can you still pick up conventional radio stations with a satellite radio?
--Reverend Raven
Desperate days demand dire deeds.
My ca had XM free with it for two months, and it was TOTALLY not worth the price. Unless you live in the desert and can only get NPR and Country radio, it's totally pointless. I have a hard time believing that sirius will be any better
I believe Sirius is going out of business. So much so that I shorted the stock a while ago and made a bundle off it. (Already covered the short, so there's no conflict of interest in this advice).
I doubt Sirius be around in 2 years. You might want to go with XM just so you don't have to buy a new head unit in a couple years.
I heard this site was supposed to be funny. All i see is a bunch of lame teenagers and tech flunkies whining about stupid crap and trying to act smart.
Buy/Make your own transmitter, hook it up to your computer playing mp3s, viola, whatever you want to hear, wherever you go... assuming you don't go to far.
-- OMFG = Oh My Floatse Goatse
It's just further abandonment of public resources. Let's pay for everything! Say goodbye to the drinking fountain...
You can't be serious...
My other sig is extremely clever...
I am not in the market for one of these right now, but if I were, it would be a hard decision. Based on the business models and actions of the two companies, I would prefer to be giving my monthly usage fee to Sirius. I don't like the XM's idea of almost no, if any commercial free stations. They seem too money hungry. For example, they only have two satalites up there. Sirius has three, which offers them some redundancy if one craps out on them.
Sirius to me seems to be the more professional of the two, where XM seem to be the "Clear Channels version" of the two. That is how I have always thought of them, which is interesting since this is my first finding out Clear Channels is a part owner.
I wouldn't give my money to XM if I have a viable choice. Remember, XM has had a head start as well, give Sirius a little time to get underway, then we can do a more fair comparison.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
All your propoganda, crappy music, and advertising from a new, and high-tech, source. Yay!
I've had XM in my Chevy C/K-1500 for about three months now and I've been very happy with it. If you listen to the radio a lot, or travel a lot in the car, or live in the boondocks, I would recommend XM Radio. Here are the basics; you need a deck that is XM ready, or a system that has an adapter, an antenna, and a receiver. The receiver is a boring box that goes somewhere out of sight in my case, the antenna is small and went on the roof, and the deck replaced my old crappy Delco built in 1987. The quality of the programming can't be beat, and it is very high quality sound. What I have preset on my deck. 10 40 41 42 44 65 The guts of the system My CD Player My Satellite Receiver My Antenna XM Radio Rock and Roll Very happy with the service and the programming.
I was looking at satellite radio stuff the other day (not to actually buy just to see what it's all about), and came to the conclusion that it's really not worth it. It would be a stretch to say that you'll like all the music that XM can offer, so I think it would be appropriate to say that you probably only like 1 or 2 genres of stuff that will be streaming nonstop over satellite. For what you're paying (and will pay as it is a monthly service) you might as well invest in an indash mp3 player (these days you can actually get a head unit that plays CD/mp3s/DVDs pretty cheap), get a modest 10" sub an amp, and play all the music you want in a true 'upgrade'[d] environment.
All the people who buy both for the heck of it.
How does it work? Specifically, how do they confirm you have a subscription, and how do they stop you from using the system? Is it the same technology as cell-phones, and is it hackable?
Just Curious.
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
I didn't like Sirius... for whatever reason I don't remember.
;)
The stake of Clear Channel in XM has very little to do with it. XM is mostly managed by GM and subsidiaries (like Hughes, aka DirecTV). The reason Clear Channel is involved is provide some of their local stations (like LA Kiss FM) onto the XM radio waves, however there are only 4-5 of these out of 100 channels.
There are also about 30 different "talk", but not your normal talk. You can get CNN, MSNBC, Weather channel, ESPN, CNN-SI, and various other "news" stations and the such. Basically, CNN Is just a stream of CNN Headline News, but it's nice to keep up on the news if need be.
Heck, XM even has Bluegrass if yer into it
And to be honest, XM does cut out like if you get stopped under a bridge, it takes a second to find it's way around or if you pass in between a couple big trucks. Basically, if your antenna gets blocked by any metal objects, it'll go out for a couple seconds until it switches to the other satelite.
This is like VHS vs. Betamax -- there's probably only room for one company in the market. Like the aforementioned VCR competition, this also probably won't be won on technical merits.
Consider the following: Which does more advertising? Who has more unit production? Basically, which has greater (cringe) mindshare? Of course, if you're willing to deal with a failing company and face buying a new head unit in a couple of years, be my guest.
Also, don't forget the rest of your sound system. Decide what you need and buy accordingly -- you almost certainly need a decent pair of componant speakers for the front and probably new, high-quality speakers in the back, not to mentioned the amps to drive them. You should also seriously consider a sub if you listen to hard rock, heavy metal or rap (among others). I have a pair of 10" subs in my trunk (largest that will easily fit in a tiny Mustang trunk) that are set up to be easily removed -- unplug the power and signal and pull 'em out if you need space for luggage or cargo.
Anyhow, don't just upgrade the head unit and go with your crappy stock sound system.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
It seems to me that before you take the plunge and get one of these things, your first priority should be figuring out, not the feature set, but if either company is likely to survive. Both XM and Sirius are gushing money (both lost over five bucks per share last quarter.)
What a drag it would be to spend 500+ dollars to install a system into your car's dashboard, and then have to rip it out in a couple years if the company goes belly up. At their current burn rate, I'd be willing to bet that at least one of the two companies will fail.
Plus, keep in mind that once you install one of these systems, you are going to be held hostage to any rate increases down the road (pun not intended.)
I personally think these companies took off during the go-go optimism of two years ago. For the money you'd spend on one of these things, you could get one of those hundred-CD units that goes into your trunk, and never worry about the company going belly-up.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Rather than looking at the technology or costs, why not look into the business health of each company. I think if you are going to be making an investment, youwant to be picking the one that is going to have staying power.
The Motly Fool recently shorted sirius believing their company to be overvalued. (That is not to say that their company will fail, stock price doesn't necessarily equate business health) The fool has quite a bit of discussion on each company.
It's a an important perspective.
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
Subject says it all...
there are a few solutions. the empeg is extinct. the ssi neo is cheap. it's not good, but it's cheap. the phatbox is probably the best solution for you (especially if you're getting an aftermarket stereo). if you're scared of small companies, the phatbox also comes as the kenwood music keg (it runs linux, too).
10 gigs in my car. haven't listened to the radio in months.
You need the full fidelity of an 8 track system, settle for nothing less.
I've looked at both, as I really want to get one of their services in my next car. I'll be going with XM when I do. The main reason is the programming differences between them. For one, XM has a person in charge of each "channel". That's a lot of individual attention to the quality of the music they put on the air. For another, there are two channels on XM that are aprticularly interesting to me a) Deep Tracks, which goes back to classic albums and picks out songs from them that were never released as singles (so you get to hear a ton of good stuff you'd ordinarily never know about) and b) Unsigned, which is made up entirely of bands that have not yet signed with a label. YMMV, but those reasons make XM a better choice for me
This tagline is umop apisdn.
but very, very little of linux. i think that statement speaks for itself
huh?
- wha-choo talkin' 'bout willis?
here you can find what they broadcast.On XM Roll and on XM Rock
I personally love my XM radio. Lots of different channels w/ lots of music choices. There are about 100 channels with 30 being commercial free. Channels are setup into neighborhoods occording to genre / music type. It's $10 a month for the service and I am very happy with it. I am currently using the Sony fm modulator model and get excellent sound quality. I have only lost signal twice. Once 2 levels down in a parking garage and once while I was in Harpers Ferry WV I was driving past a mountain and had no view of the southern sky. An excellent product and well worth it!!!!!
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. RUSH
The only reason I would ever used Sat based radio would be that I am prone to taking long drives. So long, that I drive out of range of the radio stations to which I listen.
Why would you pay for radio that has commercials? Burn your own cd's or get an on board mp3 player.
Radio is cool because it is local. Local news, local bands (if you are lucky!), certainly local promotions. You'll never hear "Drive to Sandy's Salt Shack right now and the first 40 people get free concert tickets!" on sat radio.
In short, sat radio is cool for long haul truckers, but when I want better selection that radio, I make my own programing, and you should too!
Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
Or buy a SonicBlue Rio Volt SP250 for $146 at Buy.com and hook it up to your standard car stereo. It has many options most MP3 car stereos should have, but don't. Whether it's a portable or in-dash unit, however, MP3 players have quite a bit going for them. That's not to say Satillite Radio doesn't. But I figure you're shelling out how much and still getting commercials?! Record a 650mb winamp stream, burn it to disk an bam, you're there.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
belong to us!
(Sorry.. Couldn't resist...)
Doesn't it bother you that you are considering giving *money* to a service to provide you with music and radio programs--services which have been provided free of charge under the advertisement funded system in the United States since very early on in radio technological history?
Sure, you get more channels, but how many do you really listen to? How many of the channels are really worthwhile--and how many are the audio equivalent of the "Knitting" channel on cable?
Yet another "Low Low Monthly Fee" to keep you chained to your position in the U.S. Economy. God forbid you have freedom.
Yet another free resource you now pay for. What's next, charge-per-page to read at the local public library?
Save your dollars, put them into retirement investments or CD's (the bank kind, not Limp Bizkit). Try making your self rich instead of the media giants for a change.
assuming your new car has a stock cd player... P2P client $free CD burner $100 (well more like $200) Blanks $.30 hearing what you want when you want $priceless
I want 2D games back.
We have ALL seen how quickly networks that aren't at the top can fall over. The network is only as strong as its customer base.
XM has a strong ad campaign, has been out longer, is cheaper (10 a month vs 12.99? I think..), more people have heard of XM, and if I am going to as a production company go with one of the Satilite Radio networks, I am going to go with XM, because more people are going to use it.
In addition, I believe that XM has deals with some major car companies, to install XM radios on many of their cars, and some are prepaying to subscription fee (which in the scope of a car purchase isn't that much really). XM has better numbers (their stock that is). They only needed 60,000 users to break even i think, but they will have over a half million i think by the end of the year.
I might be wrong on a few of those facts, but I think I am right on most of them. Overall XM seems to be better (and my XM stock has performed alot better, I wouldn't touch Sirus at all, except to short it!)
Overall, check their stock news, etc.... its got some great info. You don't want a receiver that in one a year will be nothing more than a Busted Tech company reminder (think of BS Zelda on Nintendo, 300 dollars, and it didn't last more than 3 weeks...)
Tibbon
tibbon.com
As I'm not one of the people blessed with having way too much money, I'll stick with other alternatives. MP3 would be my technology of choice if I were making a change today.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
See the subject. Yes, a Mustang has crap speakers. Not all cars do. My previous BOSE equiped Maxima sounded at times like it had a small sub. My current Acura 3.2 TL has speakers which can give a full rich spectrum of sound, although you can only really tell my listening to classical music which I don't do much of.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
The main problem for me is the fact that you have to pay a monthly subscription fee. That's really hard for me to wrap my head around, since I'm so used to paying nothing. For a fee of $10/month or whatever they charge, I would expect ALL commercial-free programming. However, they only claim that "most" of their stations are commercial-free. Why am I supposed to pay for stations with commercials? Even if it were truly commercial-free, I wouldn't want to pay. That's just too annoying. I have enough bills to pay without having yet another one buzzing around.
Also, I'm unconvinced that it works well in metro areas. Like GPS, the signal gets blocked by obstructions like buildings, trees, etc. To get around this, they have repeaters in places where the signal is likely to get blocked. I'd put money on those transmitters not doing the trick everywhere you might go in, say, SF or New York, where you would expect lots of repeaters, much less smaller population centers that still have tall buildings. And what do you want to bet that it won't work for crap in mountainous areas where there are absolutely no repeaters.
Why pay for the novelty of receiving radio from satellites if it has to fall back to a more conventional terrestrial transmission much of the time anyway? Truly, the only real use I can see for this is if you travel cross-country a lot and want to be able to hear the same stations wherever you go, or if you use it at home and are just really married to some station on XM or Sirius that you can't get elsewhere.
This is a News for Nerds site, and Nerds everywhere are hurting, ravaged by the downturn in tech stocks and reduced spending by speculative investors everywhere. Instead we need articles on the proper techniques for dumpster diving and living on the "Second Harvest." That's the Stuff that Matters right now.
(jj)
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
My problem with satillite radio is that there is no indepnedant stations. With NPR I can listen to unbiased news and interentsing debate/commentary, you would be suprised on just how tainted commercial TV and Radio is. With Sattilite how will not-for-profits gain acess without getting tainted? They won't. Clear channel is a monopoly with bad music :P if you are going to get sattilite go with Sirrus, plus they probibally will defend inernet radio against record corparations wich is always a plus.
DOWN WITH MONOPLIES!!!
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
I played with the service at Launch. I had the Sony "Radar Detector" style receiver. It had only 5 presets, but a fast (cached) channel listing. Make SURE you buy a radio that caches the names in memory! Otherwise you will wait forever to see the name of the station, or be forced to memorize the numbers.
Also, the bitrate for XM was 64k for music, and even less for voice. Voice is ok, better than AM, but music was very narrow and weak in the midrange in my vehicle. I have not heard Sirrius in anything other than a trade show environment, but you should listen to the audio in a vehicle and hear the dynamics.
A white paper I read on the subject said that the Sirrius bitrate was higher than XM which should clean up the audio.
XM's terrestrial repeaters in Dallas worked great. You could sit under a gas station awning, or drive thru the city and still hear satellite radio!
Don't people use search engines any more before posting a question like this?
The Sky's No Limit
XM Satellite Radio
Digital Radio Takes to the Road
I haven't dived into getting either yet until the price on the satelite recievers go down, the subscribtions are going down but the actually recievers (not the car stereos that are compatible with them) are still high. However, I would say go with XM for the simple fact that Alpine has chosen them as their standard. Alpine has long been one of the top companies in mobile sound. Any audiophile knows that Alpine is the Mercedes Benz of car stereos.
how do they stop you from using the system?
By slapping a $100,000 fine on you for breaking the DMCA. Looking at the notes on 17 USC 1201, I find that this (preventing freeloaders from eavesdropping on subscription content) is actually what the DMCA's circumvention ban was designed for, not for preventing people from playing what they have already bought.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I have used XM for over six months now and have been fairly happy. The audio quality is not CD quality (no matter how much they want you to believe that), it is closer to mp3. I wouldn't be too concerned about commercials on XM. Commercials are only on some of the channels and those with commercials are limited to 4-6 minutes an hour with 60 sec max breaks. The commericals are hardly a problem. As for Clear Channel's involvement, they are only an investor and as far as I know do not influence the music (except the Clear Channel networks: LA Kiss, Houston Mix, etc...). I highly recommend the service if you want more variety on your radio. You will be amazed at the variety of music on channels. I listen to the 80s and 90s networks often and I almost always amazed at how I haven't heard this song in a long time...
They have commercial free *MUSIC* - all the other channels (entertainment, news, talk, etc) have commercials.
XM has about 33 commercial-free channels, the rest have an average of 4 minutes of commercials an hour. Not bad.
they decide to give a percentage of their broadcast space to non-commerical offerings, like CSPAN, NPR, Pacifica, and (I hate to say it) some of those radical right-wing content providers. I'd be especially lobbying for one or two politicial stations where anyone can debate anyone regardless of how much $$ they have but instead based on some sort of signature-based nomination system.
and I love it. I still use the minidisc player in my car, but I'd say at least 75% of the time I listen to XM. I can't really talk about Sirius because I don't have it in my car, but I am very pleased with my XM service.
A couple of things to think about:
1. Commercial free - not as important as I would have thought. Yes, lots of channels have commericials. I thought that breaking up the music like that would have annoyed me, but it didn't. I either listen to the commercial, or change the channel, just like TV. Don't be afraid of XM because it has more commercials.
2. If you're afraid of Clear Channel, don't listen to "20 on 20" or KISS-FM from LA. I doubt that Clear Channel is going to mandate a Britney Spears quota on XMU, Liquid Metal, or Unsigned, for example. And some of the corporate content is worth listening to. CNN en Espanol, ESPN Radio, Fox Sports Radio, Sporting News Network, and NASCAR Radio are all on my rotation. How can you not want 24 hour coverage of NASCAR? (Wait, don't answer that. I know I'm a redneck. Get over it.)
3. Don't worry too much about audio quality. Just as high bit rate MP3s still sound like MP3s, satelite radio is going to sound like satelite radio. I would say that the sound quality is generally more consistent than the FM stations around here, and richer than the AM stations, but its not like a CD or MD. I don't notice many digital artifacts on the music stations, and even less on the talk stations (although the bumper music for ESPN Radio's Sportcenter sounds pretty nasty, but that's not a deal breaker for me), but I do notice them. And music that was recorded with too much bass then mixed with too much bass will never sound bass-y enough, no matter how much I play with my equalizer. But the variety of options available makes up for any percieved shortcomings in the audio quality.
4. XM Comedy is worth 10 bucks a month all by itself.
Just my two cents.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
Anybody have any experience with it? I'm curious, but I haven't heard anything about it, except ads on local radio.
My suggestion : just stick to a good mp3 playing head unit, and switch on the local radio when you want to hear a traffic report. If I were paying 10$/mo plus whatever hardware it needs, I'd expect commercial-free radio. The fact that these companies are so money-hungry leads me to believe they're not on stable footing and might fall under after a year or two.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
You cannot go wrong at this place. It's where I bought my Dad's MP3 car stereo. Excellent customer service. Fast delivery. Very flexible. Not too many companies like em.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I want something I can read easily from an appropriate distance, be it in the car, or even from across the room. It really gets annoying after a while.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Here on slashdot a while back there was an interview posted with the founder of fightcloud.com, who had some interesting things to say about XM vs Sirius. Sure, it's just one's guys opinion, but he seems to have done his homework. Here were his quotes from the interview:
Q: Is the Net going to change radio at all do you think?
A: No, not yet. Not for a long time [because of the legal issues]. Greed is choking the Internet right now. It's definitely territorial. . . . The artists are greedy, they want their cut off the Internet, the record labels are greedy . . . . Everybody is so greedy that nobody can work on the Internet so there is going to be no radio on the Net, not even Internet radio stations. They all are going to start playing more independent. It's going to favor the independent artist; the unsigned artist really is who people are turning to because the unsigned artist isn't going to sue anybody.
They want the exposure, so is the Internet going to change anything for a while? No. There are so many court battles that need to be fought that haven't even been thought of yet. The only Internet radio I like listening to is Christian pirate radio. It's aggressive, it's all new bands that nobody ever heard of. Its great rock, great pop.
Another prediction is the success of satellite radio. The satellite radio companies that I invested in like two years ago are going to come sneaking up and they're just going to level local radio. Local radio will go under. . . . I'll pay $10 for commercial-free guaranteed. You start doing that and what is your local sponsors going to be saying? Why should I advertise on your radio when they're not even listening to you? They're listening to satellites, commercial-free; they're paying $10. When those numbers go up, so [does] XM Satellite Radio stock value, which Clear Channel has its fingers in. They own a big chunk of XM because they know better.
Q: Is that something that you're invested in as well?
A: Oh yes. Yes, I invested in it as soon as I heard about it. . . . When satellite radio kicks . . . there's going to be no more syndication. You put a talent like Howard Stern in the XM building and boom, he's syndicated instantly. All satellite shows are considered instant syndication. It's going to be like having cable TV in your car.
You're going to have so many selections. A&E has its own channel; Home Shopping Network probably has its own channel. There are 50 channels of music and 50 channels of news and entertainment. They're going to be able to fine-tune exactly what you want. If I want to listen to Hollywood gossip there's going to be one channel just for Hollywood news. If I want to just hear about the planet, there might be a Nova channel. Local radio is nowhere near that level. I don't know if you spend much time in Los Angeles, but we have some of the worst radio in the United States. . . . XM and Sirius are going to be really good if they play their cards right and Clear Channel is very smart for being apart of that.
Q: Do you see XM as the winner, as opposed to Sirius?
A: Yes and two reasons. Sirius had a lead when they first started with Cosby backing them and they were at the top of Rockefeller Center and they had three satellites instead of XM's two. The tables turned when Sirius wasn't ready to launch on schedule. The car dealers weren't ready for them and Sirius announced they had to up their rates past $10 before they even launched. XM launched before them and XM now is running commercials full time and XM has the lead. If you look at their stock, Sirius is at $5 a share and XM is at twice that. There's an interesting battle going on; XM would love to beat out Sirius before they can even get off the ground. You always see the David Bowie falling through the roof or B.B. King falling through the roof, those commercials. They're going hard. I see it being a huge thing; I see it being in every car and every radio in the next three years.
If you want crisp, clear sound, ya gotta go with DAB, not satellite.
No idea if they have this in the US or not, though. It's in the middle of a nation-wide rollout here in Canada.
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
If both have programming you would enjoy, choose whichever has better coverage in your area.
For reference XM uses a geostationary satellite over each coast for the whole US, and Sirius uses 8 "rotating" satellites. Both use local repeaters to help with dead spots in major cities. So if you're in a hilly area near the midwest, Sirius probably wins out, but if you're in a large metropolis choose the cheaper one. Three bucks a month is $36 a year after all. And that's a lot of beer.
What kind of car did you get? Just wondered...
"Teachers leave us kids alone
Having had my RSX for several months now I have to agree with you. The custom Bose system (with a sub) is quite nice. The only issue would be if I did want to go to a satellite system, I don't how compatable the custom components of the system are.
This article is a fairly good explanation of the two providers. It may help make a decision...
s /2 002/may/200205_feature_satellite_radio.xml
http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/feature
Why pay for useless crappy radio?
Get a reciever that gets shortwave radio. That's free, and you can listen to the whole *world*.
Heck of a lot better than throwing your hard earned cash at some media company.
The real problem with these things is the same problem with HDTV sets: They are way overpriced.
It's not like we are talking about rocket science. It is perfectly possible to sell a basic tuner for less than $100 for XM or Sirius. If they did that, they'd sell a lot more units. They could even do like the cell phone people and say if you sign a 12 month contract you can get model X tuner for $100 or whatever. You can't just throw this stuff out there and hope people will buy it.
Same thing with HDTV: WHY would I spend $2000 for a really cheapo set? It's not like they cost oh-so-much more to engineer or manufacture. Plus studios are getting gouged on the production-side. Why outfit your whole setup for HDTV when it will cost you more than 10x a comparable analog setup? Frankly, I'm surprised that GE hasn't just designed their own line of cameras, TVs, etc and started selling them for slightly above cost; that would be cheaper (think in terms of outfitting all of NBC for HDTV) than buying the stuff from anyone else.
When you want something to reach critical mass quickly, you have to offer the equipment at bargain-basement prices to get people on-board. The cell phone craze didn't really take off until you could get el-cheapo phones for $100-$200, depending on how long you signed a contract for.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Satelite radio needs to invest in independant programmers. This everybody-can-be-part-of-the-same-network idea is something that will certainly cause their network to fail. Why the heck are you paying for them to develop a service when shoutcast or something similar can be broadcasted ?
I know the bad side == commercials, but this way you're not paying for service, monthly service is stupid. THey have 60 channels, when they decide to have 100, you're going to pay more.
I bought an Alpine headend with the intent to use XM because they were going live first. I also own a 60 gig Dension DMP3 player that is hooked up to my trucks sound system. When I got the XM installed, I totally stopped listening to regular FM. Now-a-days, I mostly listen to my MP3 player for music, but I frequently listen to the comedy channels, C-NET radio, and BBC on XM. I am usually in my truck from 2.5 to 4 hours per day, so I get a lot of listening in. :)
:) I complained to their feedback address, and received a prompt reply stating that they were aware of the problem and were in the process of reworking these bits to be much better. Now, the unused ad spots have info spots like "Today in Music History" and other similar things. Channel style spots will take the form of telling you interesting information and then a quick one-liner for the channel number. I was very pleased with the change. :)
As far as XM signal quality, it does cut out for not more than one second several times on my trip (Rt. 3, 495, 95 from NH to Boston), most of these cutouts are under bridges. They are mildly irritating, but not enough to discourage my listening.
They appear to be listening to their customer base too. When I started out, they had a lot of dead advertising slots that they were filling up with ads for other XM channels. Some of these ads were enough to make me scream and throw the radio out the window.
All I wanted was a rock to wind a piece of string around, and I ended up with the biggest ball of twine in Minnesota
make sure to upgrade the deflector shield on the vehicle. falling records and baseballs are easily blocked by the lower end model, but you really need the industrial strength model to ward off those grand pianos!
Those who can, do. Those who can't, go into business for themselves.
I've been watching the Satellite Radio market for the past 5 years business-wise, and I've chosen Sirius Radio.
)
Top 5 Reasons:
1) No commercials.
2) 3 Satellites
3) Just released the PAC v4 Audio Codec; derived from a series of unique technologies that include the latest generation of psychoacoustic modeling, based on a deeper understanding of hearing physiology. This new coded beats XM's previous audio comparison hands-down. (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020610/nym024_1.html
4) NPR.
5) Sirius has the business advantage of being the second on the market. They can learn from XM's mistakes without making a fool out of themselves.
5a) The cool little dog logo.
One big difference for me is that XM has CNET Radio and Sirius does not. That said, Sirius has some channels that I wish XM had (NPR, PRI). Also, it's great to have 24/7 Bluegrass.
and I haven't bought a new CD or touched MP3s in three months.
It's that good. Where to start....
1. Content: Excellent. The 6 or 7 rock channels are superb and all are commercial free. I start my day out with Fred, Channel 44, and listen to a little alternative music. Move over to Unsigned, channel 51 and listen to the new bands that are up and coming. Some really good stuff there. Decide I want to make the commute a little better, so I flip over to CHannel 160, Comedy XL and enjoy some of the stand up bits they play constantly from people like Margaret Cho, Chris Rock, Denis Leary, and a whole bunch of other talented, dirty comedians. Next switch is to BBC World Service, then onto Discovery Radio News where I listen to a bit about the Endeavour Mission to the Space shuttle.
Memorial Day Weekend: XM Special channel 30 plays surf music all weekend long to kick off the start of the summer. Excellent!
I can literally listen to more music than I could possibly have in my car in the form of $15 CDs with 12 songs on them. Bluegrass, country, the best of the 70s, Classic rock,Opera, Broadway shows, they even had a John Williams special on the Show-Tunes channel and I was driving down the road listening to the Vader Theme from Star Wars. They also had Blues Traveller perform live, interviewed Mic Jagger once, and many others.
Talk- Great selection. Phil Hendrie, the funniest man in radio is on in the afternoon on 166, The Buzz.
2. Audio Quality and clarity- Excellent for the most part. I'd say the sound quality is just below that of a CD, but I have the Sony plug and play unit that interfaces into my cassette player in my car. I didn't want to get a new head unit. It sounds excellent at home plugged into my receiver. The sony unit also has a USB connection on the back for future connectivity with a PC, I assume.
I live in Los Angeles, and in some parts of the City, the signal will go uninterrupted even under bridges. I was under the impression they didn't have the audio repeaters up yet (due to fights with the Cell phone companies and the NAB), but in some areas of LA you can be in a deep dark tunnel and still hear your radio. In the suburbs, however, a bridge will temporarily knock out your reception.
Sirius isn't even nation-wide yet. They don't anticipate a full launch until August. As far as Clear Channel investing in XM, it's not a worry. XM is selling a service. XM is the new HBO of Radio and they are not going to screw it up. It's their business model to say they are different from FM, Clear Channel is just providing content, especially the talk shows. And BTW, Sirius is also being invested in by Infinity/CBS, another major radio player.
As far as advertising, on the talk channels you may have up to 20 minutes per hour, but on XM content music channels, you won't find more than 6 minutes per hour, and there are 30 commercial free channels.
GO with XM. You will not regret it, I promise you. The variety of the content is just remarkable, you will want to drive around more or bring the unit into your house just to explore. This is the future fellas, I was skeptical at first, but now I don't want to be without it.
heres the scoop on Satellite Radio from your local Best Buy Car Audio Supervisor.
:)
XM is launched nationwide they have two satellite
you pay for a reciever 149.99-399.99 (depending on if you want to be able to take it in your house or move it from vehicle to vehicle)
you have 35 commercial free channels the other 65 have 5mins of commercials per hour versus ~22/hr on a local station. Activation is 14.99 if you call 9.99 if you use activate.xmradio.com
Sirius is still in the process of launching the entire US market, but they are close to completion
I believe July 1st they are fully launched.
they have 3 satellite, while only two are in use the third is a backup incase one of them dies.
they orbit higher than the XM satellites, but it doesn't matter because most likely your getting signal from Terrestrial Repeaters. The only thing that Sirius has that XM doesnt is what they call the "Simplex" technology, which takes bandwidth from the talk radio stations and redistributes it to the music stations for "Clearer" sound, I personally can't tell a difference and LOVE my XM.
but...some people swear by Sirius.
The Choice is yours, ive done my Duty
If you are buying the car tonight/tomorrow be careful about Sirius. If you aren't in one of these states you won't get service just yet:
We are currently supporting service in the following states: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, upstate New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Washington, D.C., Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
Don't worry to much though, because -as of July- Sirius will be national. And they do have a nice introductory offer.
Actually, Ford's MACH sound system isn't so bad -- it even plays MP3's in the newer configuration. My real problem is that my ride's a convertible, so at highway speeds I need speakers that can handle a lot of power in order to get quality sound and I need a highly customizable head unit -- putting the top down necessitates a complete retuning of the power pushed to each speaker.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
XM's two satelites are in geostationary orbit, one towards the East coast, one towards the West. You have line of site to both of the all the time (well, probably). The only issue here is that since they're geostationary over the equator, that angle gets a little iffy in places like Seattle, where the satelites are always low on the horizon, and thus more easily blocked by buildings, CowboyNeal, etc. This, however, makes it easy to set up ground based repeaters because you can point the ground repeaters at a satelite and leave them alone.
Sirius' three satelites are in elliptical orbits, and two of the three are over the continental US at all times. The orbits make the angles better (less likely to be blocked by building because the satelite is more likely to be overhead, even in Seattle), but makes doing ground based repeaters hella hard. Sirius rents bandwidth on K-band IIRC to beam signal to the ground based repeaters, which is more expensive and more complicated, but works nonetheless.
That third satelite doesn't do much for reliability. If you lose it, you're going to have areas of the country not getting signal for a good portion of the day, which isn't much better than having portions of the country not getting signal most of the day in the case of XM.
And as far as being money hungry, IIRC these are both publicly traded companies with corporate partners. They both want to make money, and neither of them has your best interests at heart no matter how good their marketspeak is. There is no good guy here. You can morally oppose Clear Channel, and XM by extension. Go ahead. Just remember that its your opinion, and you'll be fine.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
Also, I have found that, depending on the area of the country you live in, you may find that internal mounting of antennas (under rear windows, for example) is quite feasible. I have a Terk antenna mounted on the back shelf of my car and it works fine in Arizona. Some people in areas with more trees do complain about drop outs due to heavy foliage, etc. So be aware of your surroundings...
POST: 3680878
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The Department of Homeland Security is also required to notify you that you may access your e-dossier through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
I would definitely go with Sirius.
Even the few "commercials" on NPR irritates me.
Normal commercial channels drives me nuts.
Mats
Sorry folks.. but my listening pleasure
is restricted to Trance, Goa, Progressive Trance (
a.k.a. Tag's Trance Trip), classical and OLD rock
(including bluegrass and rockabilly).
You give me that with no commercials whatsoever 24/7 and I'll sign up.. until then... I'm keepin
my steeeeenkin dime.
Pffft!.. I don't even listen to FREE radio...
too many commercials and dumbass DJ's.
Well being an ex-employee of Best Buy, I moved for college and just didnt transfer my job, I can say that XM seems that it is being pushed harder. I cant say if thats a good thing but most new mid range car stereo head units are coming XM ready. Like my pioneed deck came XM ready and this was close to 6 months ago when I bought it. I didnt work in car audio I was in the tech area but I worked with a guy that was heavy into car audio. Went to all the competitions and everything. He had the XM thing setup in his eclipse. Its very nice. The sound quality was nice and the setup for it was extremely simple. The antenna was small and mounted on the roof of the car easily. Working at Best Buy meant that I had to sit thru those lame 5 in the morning meetings where we are "taught" about the new technology, more like told what to say but anyway. The advantages I heard of XM, high ammount of channels, clear signal and so forth made it sound like a very nice deal. Honestly I thought it was a wonderful thing for anyone that was on the road alot, like a trucker or someone that commutes a long way each day. Otherwise, despite the advatages over local radio, I found a 12 disk changer to be a better option for the average driver since it provided me with enough music to listen to for the amount of time I spent in the car. I ended up spending 1600 on my car stereo but declined the XM and my reasoning was this.
1. I didnt like the idea of monthly payments for radio even though it wasnt that expensive
2. Though the selection of music I listen to was availble thru XM, that being modern alternative and techno, I found my own CD's to be more entertaining since it was music I KNEW i liked.
3. I dont listen to talk radio, which is one of the bigger advantages I was told about with XM. There are apparently several channels of talk radio.
4. Most of the decks that supported XM at the time were rather expensive. The first deck I bought was an AIWA which was not XM ready. Hated it and returned it for a Pioneer which I got cause of recommendations of sound quality. It only by chance was XM ready.
For me XM wasnt practical and when I asked around about alternatives I was told that I should really only pay attention to XM since it would be around the longest. I dont know how ture that is however.
If I had to choose I would say XM but unless you are in the car all day I dont see the need for it.
Oh and yes you can listen to local stations with XM radio. The XM is an option on most XM ready radios. Its labeled as a source so once you are finished listening to XM you can just hit the "source" button and get local FM or AM or CD. The inputs the head units I have seen have the XM input as a completely seperate input.
No idea if this helps with any decisions but its my take on things.
Unless you want to lose the use of the integration features on most new cars (My Aztek has the radio that integrates with the HUD, the speedometer to adjust volume the faster you go, alarm integration, user integration (radio presets and all other settings including EQ along with seat position and mirror position change depending what key is used to start the vehilce/keyfob used to open the doors) or my steering wheel controls.
There is nothing on the market that has XM capability (or any aftermarket for that matter) that can integrate with today's advanced vehicular computer systems. getting XM and losing all that is not a worthwile trade off. and the XM tuner is a pure joke.. the reason for XM radio is for CD quality, not to listen to really crappily modulated FM (as the modulators are of the crappiest quality.)
Pay really close attention, if you buy a cheapie car that has no systems integration then you are set, but most any modern car with luxury options cannot have the radio replaced without losing a ton of features.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If the tuner isnt xm/sirius ready, then you will need the fm modulator. Installation is not that hard, but it should be left to people who know what they are doing. A friend who is the install guy at circuit city has had Mercedes, Beamers, Rolls Royce's etc. come in for satellite radio.
Acura: Good sound, crappy car
... I bought mine a couple weeks ago and its wonderful. 10 hours or so of music on a CD plus built in satalite radio makes for lots of music choices.
However, I think I am gonna drop XM, I just find that I listen to CDs about 99% of the time which means my money is being wasted on XM. If you like the radio though, I recommend XM for sure, lots of choices and good sound quality, worth the money for radio lovers.
Go you Huskies.
you fucking flamer
Ideal would be XM with B&T, Rush, Liddy, & Art Bell ;-) As soon as they come up with that lineup, I'll buy a unit the next day.
Is there anyone that actually has XM and doesn't like it? So far I've seen two people who have it and like it.
I'm seeing a lot of people concerned with the head units in regards to XM radio, and this is somewhat baffling. I have XM radio installed, and some of the questions here seem irrelevant.
The XM radio has three separate components. You have the antenna, which attaches to the top of the vehicle, then you have the decoder which decodes the satellite signal. Finally, you need some sort of receiver, like an XM compatible head unit. XM radio can also be installed by putting an FM modulator in, requiring no replacement of the head unit. You also have the option of purchasing an XM compatible head unit, however. This is nice because everything is all in one unit, but if this isn't possible, you get a small square control device for it.
It's also important to remember that if you have a Pioneer head unit that's XM compatible, you *have* to have a Pioneer decoder. A friend of mine has a Sony XM compatible head unit, and he's still waiting for Sony's decoder to come out. As far as I know, Pioneer is the only one that has a complete decoder/modulator combination in place.
As far as Sirius goes, I've never heard of it, and I've never seen any head units supporting it. Sounds like a bad idea, to me. Overall, I spent about 300 for the install/setup, and it's 10 bucks a month.
I went with XM Radio, and a Sony XM01 receiver. Most audio comparisons between the two favor XM's sound quality over Sirius. I haven't listened to Sirius, so I can't comment on the channel lineup, but they seemed pretty similar in terms of no-commercial channels and breadth.
Choose your receiver carefully. Don't let them sell you an "FM Modulator" -- hardwire your receiver to get all that sound quality you pay for. After all, an FM Modulator can only sound as good as FM.
The Sony receiver is nice, and I like that it is removable. However, it has some drawbacks. The blue-backlit screen is terribly blurry and hard to read, especially at a quick you-should-be-driving glance. It only has five presets, which is fewer than I would like on a lineup of 100 channels.
The XM programming so far has been terrific. No complaints there. Ethel rocks.
For all those hosers and thread-crappers saying "Get an MP3 player", "Get a CD Changer", you miss the point! I'm tired of listening to the same CDs I've heard before. Where do you go to hear something new? Your own CD collection? Your own MP3s? I go to the radio, and XM Radio beats FM.
I don't care what OEM system you have in your car - it will never sound as good as it would with an aftermarket system. Just as a compaq presario will never be as good as a custom made machine, mass produced == cheap.
this bit of Subject Line Troll fandom brought to you by ADM: Supermarket to the World.
but chance of survival. as horrible as this sounds, the one who captures market attention first captures market share first. and the person who captures market share first generally (but not always) dominates that market.
the quality differences between the two are nil. i would pick the technology that will be there in 2 - 3 years, rather than the one that becomes obsolete from the competition.
remember, betamax was far superior in quality over VHS, and now all those betamax owners are stuck w/ useless players...
Me email iz skyewalkerluke at microsoft's free email service.
Only an AC would call a Honda product crap.
I run http://www.clubxm.com you should check it out. Everybody there has either or service. Sirius is avaliable in some states and nationwide on 7/1. XM has more music channels then Sirius. The commercials on XM are hardly noticed. I've heard maybe 15 commercials in the 5 months I have had XM. Mostly for which are for other channels on the XM dial.
You could always hire your own private Mariachi Band to play for you in the back of your SUV whilst you drive down the road at a leisurely pace...and you can model your driving after the music being played...
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
since your obviously rich, stupid, or both, why not just get both?
only a moron would pay a monthly fee for commercialized radio like XM. Unless you're a truck driver or really do drive all over the country all day every day. Btw, I have a feeling you live near a big city and still want to get sat. radio... every big city I've been too tends to have some quality music thanks to competition. Jacksonville, FL is run by Clear Channel and isn't worth wasting time listening too. I want my old planet radio back, not clear channels version.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
HERE
They explain the merits of both and it seems to be well balanced.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
How many of you have cable or satellite TV? How many of those channels are commercial free?
Cheap storage VM.
My top six reasons for subscribing to Sirrus:
6) My one hour (each way) commute is no longer filled with the commercials of commercial radio when listening to music.
5) Sixty commercial free music channels.
4) I didn't have to go make MP3 CD's - and I'm exposed to music I would not have burnt onto a CD.
3) Forty news, talk, and entertainment stations, albeit with commercials.
2) CNBC on the way to work and Fox News Bill O'Riley's The Factor on the way home when I'm tired of music.
1) Did I mention the lack of commercials?
Just pick the one that has C-SPAN Radio. We have that locally here on a super-strong, mono FM signal, so I don't need to bother getting XM yet.
Kris
Kriston
.. and earned money instead. Then they could have bought all that music legally.
Oh... you mean you BOUGHT 3,000 CDs and then spent 20 days ripping them to MP3? Sure...
- Consult the dictionary frequently to avoid mispelling
The big problem I have with either of these options is the fact that my taste in music isn't quite covered by them. Personally I like to listen to industrial, EBM, dancy sort of stuff. They each have four dance channels and look like at least one might play the occasional thing I like. Still it looks like my taste would be hit and miss. I'm not about to pay a monthly fee for something I only like occasionally.
When I listen to the radio now, I listen to NPR 90% of the time because they have news programs superior to anything else out there. When I do listen to music, I have to bring my own because there's nobody who broadcasts what I like.
I suppose if these radio stations broadcast something I would like more consistently I might consider it.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I wish they there was a way for me to get shoutcast streams in my car.
Well, I'd agree with you, except that Sirius has two NPR streams.. That would be my main reason for going with Sirius, actually. I have been considering both XM and Sirius, but since Sirius has NPR, I'd go with them. NPR was a good companion on two recent cross-country drives, it'd be nice not to have to constantly search for a station.
The guys on the forums over at forum.elitecaraudio.com can help you out a lot in this subject. IMO, it is the best car audio discussion out there.
This is one thing that's bothered me for a while. I live in San Antonio, TX and there is an (awesome) rock station here, 99.5 KISS. KISS is their FCC issued call letters.
Why are there so many KISS FM's? I thought the FCC call letters were unique.
99.5 KISS FM here in San Antonio is awesome, it should be on sattelite radio, too!
But can you install Linux on any of these? I am sure that is the burning question everyone in here has...
But, I like the fact that XM carries Art Bell, more than one 80's station, and VH1 content.
Kill yourself.
Don't forget that XM has defective Boeing satellites, ones that have rapid degeneration of the solar array.
3 71 1
http://dc.internet.com/news/article.php/2101_89
I've read that in as little as 2-3 years they will have to start shutting down channels. And I can't see them being able to replace the satellites so soon.
Cash wise, Sirius has more money available, while XM has been close to going broke for the past year.
XM's ties to Clear Channel also bother me. CC has ruined local radio in many a market, mine included.
For $2 more a month, Sirius has NO commercials at all on ANY of the music channels. THAT, to me, is worth it, and the ONLY reason why I'd go with one of these.
Isn't the whole point of getting one of these things to get greater diversity of programming, and get away from having penis enhancment and hair restoration snake oil, plus annoying car dealer ads blasted at you for 6-10 minutes at a time between song sets?
I don't like the idea of paying for music radio, that I can get for "free", when it's also going to have ads. And given XM's financial condition (and ties to Clear Channel) there is no guarantee that the length of the stopsets won't increase to resemble typical commercial FM radio.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
NPR is only available on Sirius as far as I know (I could be wrong... check the XM listing!). I would rather go for XM since the $3/mo. /is/ significant to me, and I work for Boeing, which built the XM sats (or at least acquired them from Hughes), and I live near DC where the XM studios are. But I really don't think I would be able to get by without Car Talk and Prarie Home Companion and My Word and even the annoying Peter Chichle (sp!) is endearing.
Most of the "non commercial free" stations aren't as bad as you think. Stations like that play nowhere near the number of commercials that a broadcast radio station plays. I haven't listened to broadcast radio in over 3 years because I can't stand it. When I lived 10 miles away from work I could drive all the way home and listen to commercials the whole trip. That's terrible. MTV on XM, for example, is a commercial station, but the only commercials they ever play are for their own stuff. I don't care about being reminded of the air time of the MTV Movie Awards every hour or so... that's no where near as bad as hearing 20 minutes of TERRIBLE commercials on broadcast. The quality of XM is really good. For those of you who are screaming "MP3" why not do both... The Pioneer DEH-P7400MP unit does MP3s and is XM ready. You can use Pioneer's XM unit ($99 after the $50 mail-in that XM has right now) with it and it sounds great! It's wired, so you get that advantage over an FM modulated receiver. If you're keeping the stock speakers in the car, you won't hear a huge difference in sound quality with a wired unit vs a FM modulated one. If you do have aftermarket equipment though, wired is definetly the way to go. XM has a ton of stations... unlike radio. News, world music, metal, rock, r&b, country (god forbid), rap, etc. You'll never get a selection on FM like you can on XM. Even with MP3s... you get sick of hearing the same songs over and over again... even if you put 200 on a disc and turn the "Random" option on, you'll still get sick of them. With XM stations like "top 20 on 20" you'll always have the latest music right there. The sound quality of XM is above the quality of a 128K MP3 for sure. Anyone who tells you different wasn't listening to it on a nice stereo. I've had my XM receiver for a month now and I've never had a problem with outages. If you're constantly driving between huge buildings in New York or Chicago or something it might be a problem, but driving through a neighborhood with the trees grown up, or through a small town with fairly large buildings (4 or 5 stories) has never posed a problem for me. You won't pick up an FM signal in a parking garage, obviously, but you also don't need to be in the middle of a perfectly flat piece of land with no trees either. I've been happy with the strength of the XM antenna in what I would think to be pretty questionable circumstances. I've had the unit for a while and I'm very happy with it. I'd definetly recommend it... especially with the $50 mail in right now... you can go to Circuit City and get a Pioneer DEH-P7400MP head unit (cheaper online) with XM and MP3/CD capability, and an XM unit w/ $50 off and have them installed free. The XM unit is $149 before the rebate, and you can get the DEH-P7400MP online for around $250 if you want to install it yourself (CC will charge you to install a deck you didn't buy from them). Hope this has helped -- good luck. :)
I should say that I haven't heard Sirius, but I plan to get one when it becomes available in July.
Sirius has better News and talk stations. It seems to have all the news stations XM has (CNN, BBC, etc.), PLUS 2 NPR stations, Public Radio International, World Radio Network and Tech TV.
Sirius has similar music offrings to XM
Your decision should be based not only on its economic effect on you but also by the social effect that it will have on you and those who happen to be in the vehicle with you
I ask you, in this Post 9/11 world does either have a 24 hour 7 day a week patriotic station? Do they influence your children to some good work? Can I find a way to post to slashdot about some moral dilemma in the purchase of Sirius vs XM? Do either of them have readings of my articles and books?
Answer these questions and you'll know which you should purchase.
I've been pondering satellite radio for a while, too. Rather than worry about the technical and business aspects of both providers, I've been looking at the programming and comparing it with what I get through regular radio stations.
/.er may pride technology over function, and if the channel lineups suit your tastes I envy you. That's my 2 cents! :)
At first, I thought, 'Wow! 100 Channels of commercial-free radio?' I was somewhat taken in. I thought about how disenchanted I am with regular radio stations; I can't bring myself to listen to them anymore. Even if they broadcast sans-commercial, I don't think they'd be worth my time.
100 stations sounds like a lot. But it's not, and in light of the technology they're working with I think it's pretty pathetic. I have browsed the channel lineup of both companies and found results far less than adequate to slate the musical thirst I often find myself with in my car. I don't think either provider offers more than 10 or 15 channels I would actually listen to, and neither would be likely to have more than one or two that I'd really like - if that.
It's like paying for the Platinum Digital Cable package just so you can get Animal Planet and MTV2. Also, from reading others' posts, it doesn't seem likely that XM or Sirius will be adding channels any time soon if their financial situations do not improve.
The true
~en~
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Ok, why not give them a listen and see if they play good stuff. Both claim they will stream their channels. However both of them are unavailable without Windows so screw em.
Democrat delenda est
If you can tolerate popup ads, tv commercials and billboards... then I'm sure you can deal with the XM.
I'd go with it just for larger selection of stations.
...and hello to bottled water. This is certainly what seems to be happening lately, doesn't it? I, personally, will abstain from any subscription based service. I think that someone will make a XM-like service that relies solely on advertising revenue. Yes, the initial investment is high, but look at the potential audience! Until then, though, it is public domain FM for me when I crave new mindless^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husic.
Murphy was an optimist.
Each radio has a unique serial number (Receiver ID, whatever). When you buy the radio, you go to their web page or call their center and subscribe. This is how you set up billing and such, usually paid quarterly on a credit card.
Then they send an "activation" signal to your receiver over the same satellite signal. It's sent every 10 minutes for the first 60 hours after you subscribe. If you don't pay your bills, they deactivate your receiver.
Without the activation, you can only listen to the Preview Channel (Channel 1) which gives you ads and information on how to sign up.
So yeah, it's a lot like satellite TV that way.
Perhaps i'm in the most marginalized of marginalized categories, but if i were to pay for the cable version of radio i would want to get: techno, goth, industrial, anime and RPG soundtracks, and J-pop. They seem to offer very little of the former categories and none of the later.
Yeah sure i'm a geek, but last i heard the sci-fi channel was starting to do pretty good on cable, so money _can_ be made off of geeks.
So rather than paying a ton of money for the same stuff i can hear on normal radio, i'll just stick with webradio (at least until they get shut down.)
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
this guy does own an Aztek.
I have Sirius through my Kenwood head unit. The sound quality on the talk and news channels was somewhat strange to begin with, but either Sirius has upped the data rate on some of their stations, or I'm just getting used to it, because I can't tell the difference in sonic quality between Sirius and a good FM station any more. The only channels that seemed to have weird artifacts were the talk channels, anyways. I'd assume they had those set to low data rates to begin with, because they thought they could get away with it, but people complained so they upped the bandwidth. I have also had excellent reception in my area (Iowa) with interstate overpasses hardly ever interrupting the signal. Since the satellites actually move, and there is more than one over head most of the time, I usually get signals from a good angle even if something is obscuring the view directly over the car. I mostly use Sirius for NPR, PRI and BBC reception, because most american radio stations play nothing but mindless pap (Clear Channel being the worst offender, IMHO)
There's a micro-USB port on the back of my Sony XM01 receiver, 'hidden' under a silver sticker, but plainly marked with the USB logo.
Has anyone tried connecting it? What might it be for.. The radio has a "Memorize" feature that notes the information on whatever is playing when you hit the button. Maybe some way to download that information.
Or maybe it's just for firmware upgrading.
If I had a micro-USB cable, I'd at least try plugging it in.
The Beta that is still used in "the entertainment industry" (I think you mean "broadcast television") is BetaCam and BetaCam SP.
BetaCam and BetaCam SP are NOT the same as BetaMax. BetaMax is a watered down version of BetaCam and was geared towards home use. For all practical purposes BetaMax and VHS were identical in quality.
You might find the following format guide of interest.
http://www.high-techproductions.com/formats.htm
Look at the big picture. What is it exactly that you want? You are trying to find a replacement for commercial radio. I can tell you in the NY NJ area, most of the air waves are owned by 1 company which probrams ALL of its stations with the same music give or take a few oldies. Thats right; I hear the same stupid bands on 6 stations at the same time. We look for an alternative in satelite because what was once our mainstay is now nothing more than a nusance. Our preloaded used/new car comes with this great stereo that we are afraid to turn on because we are sick to death of the same tired music on rotation. Its all commercialism; people are actually paying these stations to play this crap. So what do we do? We find a replacement we pay monthly that we all know will ultimately turn into what we are trying to run away from! What is my proof? These stations on the satelite service actually do play some commercials. Eventually these companies are just going to go with the flow and say "Why not?" to playing music large record companies are trying desperately to promote.
What are we doing? Just cut to the case and program your own music. No one knows your music better than you - Just bite the bullet and burn a few cds that you KNOW you enjoy. If you want news, flip to AM. AM radio hasnt been tainted by commercialism in the grand sense yet; the majority has deemed it passe. Its too geeky for the pop culture to take over. Use it for what it was meant for - keeping you up to date. Just dont give large media conglomerates more money and more inscentive to take something else over. You'll be happier if you just invest in some every day hardware and do it yourself. VIVA LA BURNED CDS!
Hopefully congress will reconsider the lame-brained legislation in the past which protected local broadcasters.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Shame that both these sydtems use compression, so they'll sound worse than CD, and probably as bad as high bitrate mp3s. We'd all be better off waiting for Sony to flood the market with cheap in-dash SACD players...
Um how would an XM-like service based on advertising revenue be any fucking different from current FM/AM today?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
On the one hand you want a service that is financially secure, and if uisng comemreicals makes them so, so be it. On the other hand ClearChannel is evil.
I wanted the Pioneer Premier DEHP-740MP indash MP3 player for my VW Corrado. The radio was XM capable, and I got a super good deal (buddy in the business) on the XM tuner module and Terk TRK-SR2 antenna. I figured I might as well go ahead and get the XM.
I could have spent a buttload of time researching my choice, but I didn't. XM was already launched in my market, I got the hardware cheap, and the programming selection was varied enough that I was sure to find something to make it worth my $10. And, as I said, the Pioneer receiver basically locked me into XM.
I've had it a few weeks and I've already found that I use the XM tuner more than MP3's (This coming from someone who has hundreds of gigs of MP3 files amassed). I find that many times I listen just for news.
I've found that sound quality is good. The voice compression leaves folks sounding a bit tinny, but music is OK (It's not as good as CD, but it beats the pants off FM). I've had only one "unexpected" drop-out. It happened in a HEAVY storm driving under tree cover. It lasted less than a second. I do lose signal when I go underground in my parking garage (same place I lose FM signal), but have found that I can still listen when under bridges and even while my car was in a repair garage about 50 feet from the only overhead door.
The commercials are a non-issue. Most channels have a very limited number of commercials compared to broadcast FM.
My #1 complaint: No Howard Stern. They need to devote a channel to simulcast WLXO from Lexington, KY.
I think that if satellite radio in general is something that you want, then you probably can't make a bad choice with either XM or Sirius. You'd probably be most happy with your audio system overall by picking the receiver model that fits your needs and wants most closely and going with the provider that the vendor is aligned with.
-x
All you need to do is take one Rumsfeld "We're gonna smoke 'em out" press briefing, one Ashcroft "We're committed to defending your civil liberties by removing them" press briefing, one GWB "I'm committed to defending 'merika" speech, one Tommy Ridge "terror warning without specific information" press briefing, one Bob Mueller "give the FBI more surveillance powers for your protection" statement, one recorded "Another suicide bombing in Israel" news report, and one "more protests against America in foreign capitals" report. Burn them all to a CD, put it on shuffle - 9 out of 10 people won't be able to tell the difference between this and the real thing.
I'm not an audiophile.
The little lady and I were recently in the market for trying something new out with our tax refund. So, the option of satellite radio came up. We spend enough time commuting that it was going to be a respectable thing to do for entertainment. What do you do? Well, you go to a store, listen to the samples, and make the best decision you can.
So, we went to websites, read all the selections possible, restricions on buildings, costs, etc. Then, to Best Buy, Circuit City, all the brick and mortar places that would have a sample. Each and every one sounded like VBR MP3s at 96kbps. Sure, some of it was better than FM, but most of it was just different bad quality. I figured, despite any technical hurdles, the stores would have these things put together in the best possible configuration they could to show the gadgets off and drive some sales. Now, if none of their "demos" could get it right, my money is not going anywhere.
I realize, they were in a building, but this was their opportunity to shine! Stick the frickin antenna outside! Or did they? Salespeople didn't know the difference.
Know what you're buying. Make sure that you listen. Don't assume "CD quality" when it says "digital quality". You'd just be telling the digital cable and satellite people their marketting was right. Us Nerds/Geeks have to prove that someone understands.
And remember, you can't spell "geek" without double-e.
In my opinion as a hedge fund guy... XM is the one more likely to survive. They've got a pretty big lead, and the addition of GM OEM is going to be huge this fall. Whats going to happen is GM will eventually roll XM into itself. A good portion of GM's growth over the recent past came from DirectTv. I think they are waiting until the money raising portion of XM's life is over, and then they'll buy 'em out. XM has also stated they will dump the ads if it seems to stop people from signing up. It's not an issue so far (I don't think they are intrusive) but if the market so dictates they'll dump 'em. After trying both services, I can't tell much difference. So I went with XM because it's more likely they will be around in a few years. And I gotta say, it's so nice to be able to have a wide choice of music on long trips.
Sirius runs off software that a Clear Channel subsidiary makes, and Clear Channel runs as well. http://www.prophetsys.com XM does not run off of this software. The software has better compression and sound than what XM uses. This is why Clear Channel runs off of this software as well. Sorry if this is a repeat post.
As the poster suggested elsewhere, they never suggested that cable was okay.
In any event, comparing broadcast radio versus TV may not be completely valid anyway. I would propose that it's a lot cheaper to run a decent radio station than TV station.
There's no shortage of people and groups who have the money and resources to start radio stations who can't because of FCC licensing regulations. I can't tell you how many times in my area I've heard of some such group wanting to start a small radio station aimed at a minority audience, but couldn't when CC or some large station started complaining about "interference" that would never exist.
The University of Minnesota radio station is a good example of this problem. It's a great radio station in my opinion, even given the fact it's broadcast on AM, but its license prevents them from broadcasting after sundown. So at sundown, they stop broadcasting, and go to the web. My suspicion is that if they broadcast in the evening, when people are actually out and about, they would get a larger listener base, draw more revenue from commercial sources looking for publicity, and become even better. But their license prevents them from broadcasting when their potential listener base would listen the most, and so they don't grow as much.
There are other examples of groups in the Minneapolis area wanting to start radio stations but can't because they can't get a license.
I think that advertising-based or publicly funded radio would do fine in this country in terms of providing quality and variety, if weren't for two things: (1) FCC license policies, and (2) radio monopolies like CC.
The problem was contained somewhat artifically when regulations prohibited owning multiple stations in a particular area. Then they took off that restriction, but left the licensing policies intact. So before you had licensing policies that favored monopolies, but rules against monopolization; now you have licensing policies that favored monopolies, without rules against monopolization. If the licensing practices were changed to encourage competition and new, small stations, things might be okay.
I've even read suggestions that the reason for the current licensing system is to encourage the success of satellite radio.
I'm all with the original poster. Broadcast entertainment has become completely fucked up in this country.
Just don't buy an Aztec like the idiot elsewhere in this thread...
Take into consideration companies like FedEx and Amazon that only recently have turned a profitable quarter and are still alive and massively strong.
Rate hikes are inevitable, however I only see them increasing as the RIAA increases the costs of CD. Still, consider that it is cheaper for 1 months programming than it is to buy a single CD. I believe that the cost efficiency for the quality of programming is nothing short of amazing.
Both XM and Sirius have *excellent* quality programming, having previewed Sirius and owning XM for 3 months now. Personally, I was a little more impressed with Sirius, but XM was first to the market over 5 months ago while I was only dreaming about getting satallite radio. I found the pops stations to be a little better, and also the fact they have NPR was a good selling point.
In terms of quality of signal, Sirius touts their "S-Plex" technology, which they claim provides a superior digital sound. Personally, i couldn't tell the difference, albeit I would say both sound about as good as 96kbps MP3 tracks. In other words, not as good as a CD, but better than the radio.
As for the betamax/VHS question, that's always a big concern when any new technology, but there are still plenty of cable vendors in the market, and satallite has worked it's way in pretty well, despite that. As far as business models, I imagine XM will be picking up more commercials in the future, but are keeping them minimal in the early days. I personally have only caught about 5 minutes of commercials for four hours of programming, which I think is considerably good. Sirius has a long term goal of implementing a "buy now" option, where if you hear a song you like, you can just click a one-button option on your stereo system, and confirm, and you would be able to download the MP3 right from the web. I've been told this feature should be coming in the next year or so.
One last bit of advice: this tech is expensive. Components add up quickly. If you're going to replace your stereo system, do it on an as necessary basis. Sure, it'd be great to replace all your speakers, but you won't get the benefit with the satallite radio. You'd be better to replace it if you were doing it for one of those fancy new in dash DVD receivers with DTS/DD output that really requireed HI-FI sound. I know my current car stereo speakers are plenty good enough for XM... Good luck in your decision!
Chris
metro_guy@hotmail.com
Yes, but do either of them carry digitallyimported.com?
Or anything similar?
The one to survive and thrive will be the one that gets in the most production cars/trucks.
GM - XM
Ford - Sirius
Toyota - XM
DC - No plans
Those are the only ones I know about.
Where do I find this Knitting channel of which you speak?
Why not spend your $600+ at a used CD store and get the music you like.
I just got Sirius last month and I'm in love with it. Audio quality is just about as good as you can expect to get from digital, no commercials, great music and some other channels, too. Never played with XM, but my Kenwood deck plugged right into the radio and its beautifuly integrated.
Jon Green Cheyenne
Ethel rocks
The name 'Ethel' turned me off, so I didn't listen to that channel for about 3 months after I got XM - but now that I've listened to it, I'd have to agree - Ethel Rocks.
Code or be coded.
XM must be doing a hell of a lot more advertising than Sirius, perhaps because their network isn't completed yet or they have better funding? I have yet to see a single Sirius commercial on tv while XM ones are appearing with greater and greater frequency daily. Truthfully I hadn't heard of Sirius at all before this article today.
What I really wish I could do with my car radio is get foreign radio stations; commercials and all would be fine with me. I have one particular London station that I stream at work daily that I would love to be able to get in the car. Any chance that will happen? My first impressions of satellite radio were that this was the premise, being able to get radio from around the country and the world. When I found out it was going to be music only channels put together by some company I was almost dissapointed. I must be one of the minority that thinks that station personalities actually add to the programming on occasion. I do really like the idea of all those news and talk radio channels though. One of my favorite FM stations is purely talk. Sorry to ramble...
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
I bought a Kenwood KD-SH99 in-dash CD/MP3 player and I love it. I probably have about 80 CD's worth of music (average sampling rate 224kbps) in one of the little half-full zip-shut CD holders. I keep it in the pocket in the driver's door.
If I want to hear local news, traffic, or weather, I have the radio. If I want to just listen to some new music, again, I have the radio.
Satellite radio has zero appeal to me. One of the advantages to going on long drives is that one can listen to local radio stations. It's interesting to hear radio stations in other parts of the country. I don't have any desire to listen to some corporate, coast-to-coast radio station with no local news, traffic, or weather. Let's get real here: $120 per year for 100 radio stations is silly. When those radio stations are are staffed by no-name, second-rate DJs that stick to programming designed to be inoffensive and bland, it's downright absurd.
Take a look at the offerings. See how many of the stations you would listen to. You might be surprised at just how few might play something that you want to hear.
The ability to listen to ONE channel while you drive across the country is one of the BIGGEST selling points, not to mention the variety of stations you can receive, AND at better quality than FM/AM. Where I live, our dozen stations really suck. Pretty obvious stuff, really.
Murphy was an optimist.
I spent $600 souping up my car radio for XM. I just wanted new toys (XM Radio, Aux input for the iPod, and 1.5 din to fit nicely). I take a lot of mid-length car trips 3-6 hours, so for them, I'd like to have music selected.
Sure the iPod is nice because we can listen to our music in the car, but it doesn't expose us to new music. For $10/month, I get exposed to new music, without having to find local stations as I drive around.
Alex
If all you want is news, local channels ae good enough. Use the MP3 player for music, local channels for news and talk. After all--I hate to break it to you--but I'd be willing to bet this whole satellite radio thing is a fad that will go belly-up, bankrupt the same way Iridium did. Iridium was a quality, but more expensive and more expensive to maintain, alternative to other mobile communications. Satellite radio is a quality, but more expensive and more expensive to maintain, alternative to other radio sources.
Satellite radio is a fad because, bet you dollars to donuts, it's relying on growth to keep the bills paid. However, it will reach a ceiling within a year, and all the people interested in paying for a commercial-free version of the radio they can get for free, will have purchased their equipment and inked their subscription contracts. After that, adoption will slow to a crawl, money will become increasingly tight, royalty payments will go unmade, channels will start dropping, and XM and Sirius satellite radio will die, gone the way of all fads.
Anyone care to take that bet? Satellite radio is going to fail, plain and simple. The vast majority of people will never pay for it, and the relatively small number of adopters will not be enough to support the whole network with its tech upkeep, royalty payments, and all.
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
I would personaly go with the one that started caeeying internet radio staions such as www.wolffm.com
As far as comercials, you PAY for cable and satalite tv but you still get them there.
As far as Clearchannel, all the channels they run In Florida are running on HIT loops. Its like a 20 song mp3 player on repeat.
http://www.englishfirst.org
I think satellite radio is a rip off. There are plenty of decent land based stations, and most radios these days at least have a seek function.
;-)).
An in-car MP3 player is a good idea for those of us who just want to listen to our favorite music while driving (or doing whatever it is people do in cars...
Why pay for news when you can have it for free? Why pay to listen to music that you already own? Spend a little dough up front, get a good head unit that supports MP3 audio (or a line-in jack for a portable MP3 player), and you're set.
I think you're right. Satellite radio as it is will not survive. It's just not a good idea.
Moderate me down for this if you will for being offtopic, but I want to thank you for presenting me with an opportunity to rant regarding satellite radio. Why would anyone want to *pay* for the reception of a radio signal? Look at the content they are delivering. Neither of the two providers are feeding you programming which is free of the greedmongering spam you now are spoon fed from the commercial AM and FM stations. Paying for this dubious priveledge is against my religion and I for one, refuse to buy in. Now of course, if I were a truck driver and wanted to listen to NPR in Sagebrush Texas, things might be different. But I live in Los Angeles, the radio market is saturated with strong signal already. Besides that, who needs a radio that can receive Metallica in digital clarity? I'm boycotting them already. Say, do they have a Brittney Spears channel on those things? I gotta go.
I don't need no estinkin'
Jeepmeister
Doesn't shortwave require a pretty large antenne?
Or does the car body make up for it by being a good ground plane?
http://www.englishfirst.org
Link to review
I bought an XM around Christmas time. I live in a northern lattitude (New Hampshire) and I have few problems with reception. Under bridges it will cut out for a second, and when near large buildings. When I am down near Boston near the repeater, reception is flawless even in tunnels and I can go to the second underground level of parking in the Fleet Center before I loose reception. All of the channels that I listen to are commercial free and overall I'm very pleased with the service. I use a Pioneer AM/FM/CD player with the XM add-on in the trunk and the little knobby Terk antenna on the roof.
Don't look at it as a miniscule $3 per month -- think of it as paying $360 more over the next 10 years.
Now, is Brand X worth $360 more than Brand Y?
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
(1) Re:
"I'm looking for more strengths and weaknesses from people who have used one (or better yet, both!) of the services."
I've subscribed to XM since late November, now have five subscriptions, and no longer listen to FM, despite the fact that where I live (metro DC ) has all available FM frequencies occupied.
My reaction to the XM website before I subscribed was, what's the catch? What are they not telling me? For example, will trees and bad weather block the signal?
Now, over six months later, my experience is, there is no catch: XM delivers what www.xmradio.com promises.
At first my wife wondered why I was "wasting" money on XM. Then one day after listening to it she said to me, "Let's install XM in ALL our cars!"
I listen to 50s and 60 music primarily. XM has one channel for each decade. In contrast, www.siriusradio.com treats that era with just one station. From this I conclude as you do that XM has better music selection.
One interesting tidbit. Go to Yahoo's used car ads and keyword search on first XM and then Sirius. The former will bring up several cars; the latter, none. The possible relevance of this is that if only one satellite radio broadcaster survives, it probably will be XM.
(2) Re:
"with the Clear Channel issue being my main fright."
The DC oldies station (WBIG) is a Clear Channel station; fortunately XM's Channel 5 through 9 sound nothing like it. I even occasionally listen to XM's 80s station (Channel 8, a.k.a. Decades > 80s on 8).
(3)
Back in January (2002) an XM DJ with whom I was exchanging emails invited me to tour their studios (which are within a half hour of where I live), so from him I got a one-on-one tour. "What's Sirius up to?" I asked him. His reply, "We don't know. We do keep talking about us having to watch out from them. From what we know, they're going to do more canned programming."
(4)
I have cars with both XM direct and via FM modulator. The direct sounds MUCH better; get it if at all possible.
(5)
I run XM through wireless speakers distributed throughout my house (for convenience). Thus, to me to program content, not just the sound quality, is XM's appeal.
Iv had XM Radio since just this last March. i listen to it ALL the time. there have been recent situations latly where i would go out at night to a club and friends in the car wanted to turn on the radio to hear local stations and i was uterly disgusted at the difference in quality after 5 min of listening to it. the car its in is a 2001 Dodge Stratus Coupe V6 (i own www.2gstratus.org) and i have the Alpine CVA-1003 multimedia center and the Alpine XM Radio Addon and i absolutly love it. it was wired with the AI.Net system so i pluged that into my head unit, and my cd changer into the xm radio unit and i was done. i got the outside Terk roof mounted antenna and it very rarly clips out (cliped a few times when i was down low in the hills of PA on my way to a car show and when im under some over hangs at the local banks)
iv also reed reviews that the alpine unit carries the signal the longest out of all of them on the market.
Theres so much different music, you wont be pressed to throw in a cd again. i cant say how much i love it.
As for Sirrus, i dont know. iv seen it sold at the shop only under the name of Jensen (which is crap). from what iv learned, XM channels are all owned by XM Radio, more or less under the same building (they tend to rotate the same commercials every few months). and even when there is a commercial, its all of 1 or 2 min per 3 hour run. if u dont care for that, turn to a no commercial channel or another channel in general. theres so many something is allways on
anyways, thats my view, when it was sayed and done, i think i payed $400 total for the module, antenna, activation and first 3 months, but its also alpine, theres nothing really better on the market than that.
-Mario
1. If everyone gets a sat deck and local radio dies, we all lose a little. We'll all listen to the same set of 100-200 stations, by the same old players, and it will be just like the crap you see on TV.
2. You think local radio is already crap, well you are right. If it weren't for the two college stations in my area I wouldn't ever listen to the radio. Thankfully I have KSCU and KSJS. Try getting these songs on XM
3. Local merchants rely on the lower price of Local Radio (as opposed to TV and Sat) for advertising. When everyone goes Satellite the local business man will be even more f*cked. Might as well pave the way for Barnes&Noble, Walmart, McDonalds, et al to come into town and turn every small business owner into a minimum wage slave.
That's right, Satellite Radio will be the end of local diversity. We'll all get the same weather report(cold in east, warm in west). Same traffic report(lots of traffic in cities around the US, smooth sailing in the country side. back to you Jim) Same Nationwide Ads for McDonalds, Walmart, Et al.
Same Brainwashing corporate bullshit.
4. I'm waiting for Sattelite Internet Radio. See, on streaming mp3 stations may be nationwide like satellite, but they aren't limited to the rich. Anyone can set up a shoutcast or live365 stream. What's more, is that they aren't censored like the Airwaves and probably Sattelite Radio (are the any audio porn stations on XM, XXXM maybe).
If my car had a sattelite dish, like my friends (Sprint) house with Satellite provided Internet I could get any shoutcast sation I want. Forget about listening to the same old crap, I could be listening to somaFM in my car.
Someone needs to take the Ricochet network and rig it up to a Pioneer InDash Deck with WinAMP support. (AOLTW are you reading this?)
Until then, I'll listen to and $upport KSCU, KSJS, and NPR. Everyone else, including Satellite Radio and Clear Channel can kiss my local boy ass.
Patrick
We just put 11,00 miles on our new XM. Loved it! Clear jazz, classical, blues and cool The Loft - unparalleled 3 hour show with Dave Mason. No problems in the east, south or west till we got to N. California, OR, WA, and Rte 1 across western Canada. Low satellite plus big buildings and MOUNTAINS gave fairly frequent dropout. You either do or don't have reception. Much as I love XM, if I lived in the NW US or W Canada I'd likely cry and decline. Too bad because that part of the world is otherwise paradise. (Check out the incredibly beautiful town of Revelstoke, BC, with its amazing ring of spectacular glaciers, beautiful river and more softball fields with evening town games than security holes in Windows.)
Remember to think of the overall price of the system.
XM: $250+ for a complete system + $10/mo for the life of the radio.
Sirius: $320+ for a system + $13/mo for the life of the radio.
Figuring you'll keep the radio/car for, say, 10 years, that comes to:
XM: $1450
Sirius: $1880
Now that you have the ACTUAL cost, think about what a great mp3 player you could get for $1500!
They tried this scam on me to get voice mail, they wanted $5 a month ($600 / 10 years) to do what my $15 answering machine does already.
Travis
Here is a Sirius Orbit Map that I made myself...u sorbit.jpg
i .gif
http://members.aol.com/buggyboywa/siri
My XM bashing logo!
http://members.aol.com/buggyboywa/siriusan
; )
What I've started doing is recording internet music streams ( such as d-i etc. ) to tape overnight and playing them during my commute the next day. I'm sure you could do the same with CDR if you need the extra audio quality (I don't). That way, you get any channel you'd like. I've been pretty happy with this arrangement so far. Don't underestimate low-tech :)
I hope i'm not covering old ground, but there is a serious problem with Sirius's satellites.
XM has two sats, 'rock' and 'roll', in geosynchronous orbit at each end of the country. Because they are geosynchronous, they have to be over the equator, which means that they can be as "low" in the sky as 45 degrees from the northern US. XM uses repeaters to cover the shadows.
Sirius has three satellites in funny eliptical orbits, timed so that one is always almost overhead. This was supposed to give them the advantage of not needing ground-based repeaters for cities, canyons, etc. But it didn't work. They still need repeaters. So now they have to solve a problem of filling in shadows which are constantly changing. XM's repeaters have a dish aimed at the satellite. Sirius can't aim a dish at the satellites because they're always moving. So they have land lines to the repeaters. Now enter the timing problem. They have to adjust the timing of the signal to compensate for the ever changing distance of the satellites. Anyone want to guess why they're not ready to launch yet?
I would consider satellite radio if there existed an audio PVR (PAR?) to make the commercials disappear and to play back all the cool stuff I missed when my radio was turned off. And it'd have to be able to archive to CDR (or have an ethernet port so I can archive with a PC/laptop).
XM is on GS orbit, Sirius is on highly elliptical "Molniya" orbit - that means that for most of the time it will be straight over your head, not under inclination (depending on your lattitude), and will have stronger signal (less atmosphere reflexion/absorbtion..)
That also means that they have much more complicated chipset, as they have to transfer reception between sattelites coming into the active spot.. But that should not worry you - but it caused the launch delays
This point is moot in urban areas, as they have to rely on retransmitters more.. Still, Sirius orbit is better (theoretically)
As far as programming, price and equipment - that may make or break any advantage, and I got no clue..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
The tradeoffs between the service can be argued endlessly. What it comes down to in the end is primarily "What service has music that I like?"
While there are many stations in common between the systems, if you study the channel guides you will find important differences. If you want NPR, for instance, you need to pick Sirius. If you want the LA/NY superstations, you need XM. Dig through the listings and you'll find more examples that may apply to your own listening tastes. Both companies have websites that let you sample recent loops of each channel's music. Go Listen.
The second biggest influence is in the installation. What will work with your desired audio system(s), in what situations? Do you want something that swaps between multiple vehicles and the house (like the Sony unit for XM), an FM modulator, an Aux-In external, or an integrated unit? Depending on the vehicles you drive and your desire for (or against) home use, one service may have an advantage over the other.
For me? I went XM because it was the only thing out at the time. I bought the Pioneer FM-modulated box and installed it in my GL1800 motorcycle. It integrates beautifully with the built in audio system on the bike, replacing the very-crappy factory CD player. I find myself listening to only a handful of the channels: BPM, 80's, Cinemagic, Audio Visions, and the occasional newsfeed. It's so nice not to have to play station-hunt every hundred miles or so, and even the iPod-full-of-tunes can get redundant on a long trip.
Now that Sirius is out, I am re-evaluating the channel line-ups. Satellite radio is damnably addictive, so I plan to put a reciever in the van, the other bike, and the house. As a result I'll probably end up with the Sony 'socketed' solution, so I can just buy the one and swap it as needed between the three places. Said Sony unit is XM only, though -- so I'm keeping my eyes out for a Sirius 'transportable' unit as a possible alternative.
You can try out the XM channels byn el_li sting.jsp
going to th XM website at:
http://www.xmradio.com/programming/full_chan
I don't like the fact that XM uses DJs to
introduce the music.
I've observed that the general public uses the following priorities, in order, when determining which medium will fail/pass:
1) Publicity (People like to buy the brands they've heard of)
2) Price (People won't buy something they can't afford)
3) Content (People will choose the medium that carries what they're looking for)
4) Technical ability (People won't buy CDs if their favorite bands are only on audio cassette.)
So, my point is that if one format advertises better then the other, it'll win. If both formats are equal as far as far as publicity, then the cheaper one has an edge. If one format has better stations, then it'll win. I doubt that XM will win simply because it sounds better. MP3s sound like crap and look at how popular they are!
The July/August issue of Sound & Vision magazine, which arrived in my mailbox a couple of days ago, so it may not yet be on stands, has a ten page article comparing XM and Sirius. I merely skimmed the article, but I did notice that they thought the sound quality of XM is much better than the sound quality of Sirius, at least for their setups (but that Sirius claims it's still tweaking the sound).
I won't speak good or ill of Sirus -- I've never had an opportunity to listen to it.
I will speak good of XM though. I've never heard such a great collection of music in my life. One thing I've noticed is that when a band does release a new song, they (or at least channel 34) tends to play more of that band's other songs too. And it's not just 'formula radio' -- you'll hear lots of great songs you may have never heard before.
As another poster pointed out, their geosyncronis orbit does mean that the further north you are, the chances of it cutting out due to a hillside, tall building, or whatnot does increase. That never bothered me much though, in the hilly parts of PA you'll have shoddy reception from radio stations anyway. I have gone through some tunnels where it cuts out less than 10% of the way -- which impressed me greatly.
(For those who might care, I'm speaking of the Squirrel Hill Tunnels, on the outskirts of Pittsburgh on the Parkway).
When Sirus petitioned the FCC to restrict the 2.4 GHz band. That's reason enough to drive them out of business. Then again, I am just an angry /. reader with nothing to lose
eh, food for thought...
I've had mine for almost a month and enjoy listening to it every chance I get. I did have to find a AC -> DC converter for my Sony Plug-N-Play so I can listen at work. I enjoy the Sony but am a little dissapointed not being able to get parts for it. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. I would like another chasis but not a whole car kit.
:)
I listen to:
80's on 8
Anmerica on 10
Watercolors on 71
Top Tracks on 46
XM Comedy on 150 or 151. The Xl one
I am looking for a good classic rock station on there. I think 46 is it since I haev been hearing more Pink Floyd lately. If anyone has pointers please email me directly.
My comment is don't wait go to BestBut and buy either Sirrus or XM you will not regret it. It may be a little bit of an investment but you'll enjoy your commutes. Sometimes I take the long way home.
cfowler@linuxiceberg.com
1. The topic is XM vs. Sirius. How many posts must there be about your in-dash mp3 players?
2. I guess it is safe to assume that none of the posters arguing against a paid service which still carries advertisements subscribe to cable TV? Better quality of service. More variety. And significantly more expensive than $10/month. Nuff said.
Disclaimer: I work for a car/home audio shop, and we sell XM Radio.
Alpine, Sony, and Pioneer all make XM-Ready head units, which then can have in Pioneer's case a $150 tuner plugged in, or in Alpine and Sony's worlds, a $250 tuner. Then you need a $100 antenna, and then a $9.95/mo subscription.
After this, XM Radio is *awesome*. Out here in Western South Dakota, we're in "Radio Hell" - drive 60 minutes in any direction, and it's only country.
/em shudders.
XM radio is also signing on new stations and programs all the time, and the selection is growing. XM sounds nearly as good as CD quality, and keeping the same station countrywide is appealing as hell.
Sirius, from what our reps tell us, hasn't gotten the manufacturer support _yet_ that XM has.
Expect to see head units next year for cars that have the XM chipset built in in the $600-$700 range.
Also - nearly all Sony Unilink-compatible head units _should_ be able to provide an interface with a Sony XM tuner.
Alpine's XM tuner is Ai-Net, so if you have an Ai-Net head unit, you're golden.
Pioneer units use the P-Bus, so changer control decks have a good shot, also.
You may not get all the text display, but you'll get the tuner to work. Ask your salesman/installer about your specific head unit.
XM is easy to install, easy to use, and Sony makes a unit that can be moved from the car to the home via an FM Modulator that works with *nearly any* FM radio.
FM modulation won't have the same quality as a true XM source, but if you own a leased vehicle, it's a good option.
Get a good install shop, and ask plenty of questions of your salesmen and installers.
"If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."
College may have great radio, but they don't seem to teach spelling anymore.
MPR says: "Detroit Free Press technology writer Heather Newman has been testing satellite radio over the past several months, and has some advice. ...In the second part of our conversation, Newman explains the differences in programming on XM and Sirius."
Satellite Radio:
Popular with truck drivers, taxi drivers, long distance (1+ hour each way) commuters and anyone else whose job requires them to spend a long time in their car or truck.
Why not digital terrestrial radio?
FCC regulations. Satellite radio providers (XM and Sirius) avoided FCC regulations by broadcasting from space. If they used ground-based antannae, they would not have been able to lease the required frequency spectrum. It really was cheaper for them to send a satellite into space than it was to go through all the red tape on the ground.
My other first post is car post.
Does that also mean talk-free? Most radio stations have "commercial-free hours" which includes a lot of self-advertising, saying the call letters every few seconds, etc.
DJs that blab over the beginning of songs and cut them off early are going directly to hell.
I want ZERO talking.
nm
If someone could answer me that same question it would be great. I had hoped that once XM ready Decks had come out, I could use the XM01 as the reciever unit and just hide it in the center console, while connected via USB to shoot both the audio, display, and controls to the Deck, and still take it out to use in the home cradle. I don't however, think it will ever work that way. I think it is only for firmware updates, and only for last minute firmware updates before it shipped in case it had problems interfacing with the XM signal before product launch.
I have yet to see since the old U.S. Robotics 28.8 Courier modem, firmware upgrades that actually add features, or let you do cool new things. (The U.S. Robotics 28.8 Courier Modem had a free firmware upgrade for 33.6, then, when all those 56K standards came out, you gave them $20 and you got a firmware upgrade all the way up to V.90 and I'm sure V.92--or whatever if I still owned the thing.) All firmware upgrades do now is fix bugs......
I'm the Director of Programming for a Clear Channel radio group in a mid-sized market. I've worked for the company four years. I've never been told by some Corporate guy which records to play; our stations are locally programmed; and we kick serious ass in the ratings. More people are listening to our cluster of stations than ever before, so we must not suck too bad.
Our jocks work very hard, and most of them are deeply community-minded. We raise hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for charities like St. Jude's. When hurricanes come (or when airplanes run into skyscrapers) we put personal lives on hold and work around the clock because we actually give a damn.
I've done radio for over 25 years. I have never worked with a more talented or dedicated bunch of guys and gals than the folks in this building. They are good radio people, as good as any were back in the "good old days."
We--not just the guys at Corporate--are Clear Channel. It pisses me off to hear the professional integrity of my crew being so offhandedly dissed. When you slam our big, mean old company, you are also slamming the programmers and announcers you've been listening to since long before CC was an evil gleam in Lowery Mays' eye.
Yeah, radio has changed. Our stations generally prefer hits to hipper-than-thou playlists. If you want a consistent diet of obscure music, you have at least three options: pay radio (XM/Sirius); your local record store; and Gnutella. Or you can support a local public station. I do.
I'll post this anonymously before the inevitable accusation of kissing up to the Suits.
XM has more channels for less money. More coverage area(for now). Better programming. While Sirius just hits you with stuff you would find as "Music Choice" on Digital Cable or Satelite Television(Generic Crap, essentually whats on FM and MTV only Uncensored), XM gives you diverse programming, with real DJs that play what they want to play and don't care what people think.
Get this---you can actually find NEW music that is cool, whatever your taste, not just a bunch of repackaged, over-hyped, overpaid, corporate, no-talent "so-called" artists that are all over MTV1, MTV2, VH1 and FM today. Of course, if you like that crap, its there too(on seperate channels so you can avoid it).
About commercials, most of the channels don't have them, and if they do, they're not the 30 sec. to 5 min spots we've all grown to hate from everywhere else. 10 sec. max between a boatload of songs. All of the channels I listen to don't have commercials.
Plus, its 5 bucks cheaper a month than Sirius, the frequency it uses is farther away from the 2.4Ghz band that 802.11d uses than Sirius(Less chance of possible interference), and for all you Kenwood owners, there is an adapter to be able to use an XM reciever through your input for Sirius radio, XM also listens to customer feedback.
Just don't get your XM installed at GOHO Auto Audio, or anything there for that matter.
I was under the impression that the reason you were paying a monthly fee for the satellite radio was to get rid of the commercials. If the station doesn't have to worry about collecting revenues from advertising (ie. collecting a fee directly from the consumer) why are they putting in commercials? Why pay $250+ on equipment that will *really* get you nothing better that plain old am/fm? $10 a month just so you can hear the same station all across the country?? I think I agree on the idea of just spending your money on an in-dash mp3 player...
User logging on... 300 baud... 300 BAUD?!? (Click!) NO CARRIER
I have XM in the 'big truck', which makes lots of journeys into the world outside (good) FM coverage (northern, central and eastern Nevada), so having the satellite out there is quite desirable. Not to mention that I love (love love) having BBC World Service 24/7. I've had the unit for about a year.
As to the "icky, evil commercials", ignoring those channels which are just audio feeds of the video (Fox News, CNN Headline, et al), most of the commericals are to be found on the five or six channels which are live feeds of broadcast radio stations. Interestingly, the ads on these feeds are not those being heard on the actual station; due to the new weirdnesses in audio licensing these ads are specifically for the satellite market. CNET Radio is the best example of this. As a consumer, I find the ads occasionally annoying, but no more so than listening to any other AM or FM radio station. In the SF Bay Area or in Boston, you can use the CNET signal to figure out the delay between satellite and live. Last time I measured it, the delay was about 45 seconds.
In the early days, XM ran so many promos for their other channels that I actually wrote an e-mail to complain. This was quite promptly answered with a "yes, yes, we suck but we're trying to position the channels and it will end soon." It did decrease, but you still get the positioning ads a little often than I would like.
The big advantage (I thought) that Sirius had over XM was the "NPR" channel. However, once they actually started the feed, it was this weird NPR "National" feed. So, you can listen to "Morning Edition" -- during the afternoon drive time! This choice was made to ensure that the local affiliates didn't lose ears to the satellite service. And the filler stuff is really fourth- or fifth-rate. KCRW has a new call-in/talk show that is making up much of the odds-and-ends and boy, is it awful.
Ok, so now to the general programming. It is rather generic (and the bluegrass channel doesn't have much bluegrass older than 1985 -- however, I do love the "steam powered radio" idea). However, you do get more variety than the usual local "country", "jazz" or "rock" station. They have about four different flavors of country music, which is nice, since, for myself, I can't stand much country that came after 1979. However, my point is that you can pick the era you like of most genres. And you have those less appreciated channels, like Hindi film music (when do we get the Telagu and Tamil channels!?!) and Tejano.
All in all, I'm really happy with XM. It has minimal coverage problems, even in town and the programmers choices of stations is pretty good. It could use more varities of classical music (only the 'generic' mix of romantic and baroque vs. vocal) and it would be nice if PRI jumped in with some of their programming (Le Show can be found on the comedy channel, but I'd like more). For $100/year and a single preset on the dial, it's a pretty good bargin
IF...
...you go to areas where you need fill-in coverage. In town, I rarely find myself turning on the XM unit. I usually play music off the MDs, CDs or iPod when driving around, or listening to my NPR affiliate of choice (KALW). However, as soon as I'm past Vallejo, the XM unit is used at least 50% of the time.
So, if that is what you're looking for, or you want BBC 24/7, pony up the $150 + $100 and pick up a box.
(I am thinking of getting another one for the motorcycle. Has to be removable, so it will probably be the Sony.)
I think it comes down to what channels you are happy with, and listen to most. I have both services (3 cars and home unit), and really enjoy both of them. They are head above regular AM-FM radio. The 3 bucks difference doesnt bother me either, I can spend 3 bucks on junk foods or whatever without blinking an eye- why should it upset me with radio-music, which I love? Supposedly Sirius has upgraded their sound as of today 6/11/02. I never had a problem with their sound. I brought both XM and Sirius units to Alaska last month, and Sirius has better reception--BUT--- one of their satellites (#3) doesnt hit Alaska when in postion, so you go for hours without service. XM on the other hand, is contunuous-IF you are stationary and have a good view of the southern horizon- no blocks or obstructions, it won't hang on while you drive. Most def a repeater system would help both systems if they ever decide to serve Alaska. Sirius has the edge here, a higher angle in the sky. XM does have a few commericals on some stations, but hey dont bother me much, its the rebroadcast of CC stations in NYC, Nashville, Houston and LA that I find a waste. Sirius has all orginal music feeds/no commercials. I like oldies rock, and I find the XM library goes way deeper in those formats than on Sirius. I dont like to hear the same 400 oldies that regular radio plays over and over- XM mixes it up with forgotten classics, lost hits, minor hits and others-very good to keep the old stuff fresh!! Sirius just plays the BIG hits. But when it comes to my R&B and Jazz choices, I have to give the edge to Sirius, Express vs The Groove and Soul Revue vs Soul Street, but all are excellant programmed choices for old R&B/Funk. So find the channel you like on XM and the one that matches it best on Sirius and see for yourself- or be like me- get both- whats a few bucks a month more ? Enjoy!!! Long live XM and Sirius!!
... look (physically) awful.
:(
:/ I want a simple and elegant deck, not something that looks like a 747 jet landing strip... at night.
I hope this isn't rated off-topic
Who wants to have a piece of hardware mounted to a random point in your car so you can get the stations? I understand it's a solution for older cars... but it's pretty pricy if you ask me. For the price they're charging for the hardware, it should, at least, be TINY.
Tech companies can cram a hard drive and mp3 decoder into a footprint that's about the size of a deck of cards, but the current satellite solutions are about the size of a 10 disc CD changer, if not larger. What the hell is up with that?
Furthermore, most of the replacement decks out there with XM/Sirrus tuners built-in look kitschy. Hell, the entire car audio section of my Crutchfield catalog seems completely rice-burner oriented.
I wish the car audio manufacturers would realize that not everyone who wants a new deck for XM/Sirrus has a Civic.
I thought the entire point of paying a subscription for radio is to get it comercial free.
I think it should be illegal to charge for any channel that uses commercials to support itself. Of course this would increase the pressure not to allow skipping commercials on network TV.
When you pay for cable, you pay for the wire to your house. They shouldn't be able to include commercially sponsored channels in "Tier Upgrades". This is actually a law in certain communities.
I would never buy this technology if I have to pay for the opportunity to listen to commercials.
But to answer your question, one plus of XM is that it has sole satellite broadcast rights to NASCAR, all NASCAR all day.
Someone earlier said that XM Radio had agreements with car manufacturers and that Sirius did not.
Sirius does, actually, have agreements with more care manufacturers than XM does. They are: Ford, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, Mazda, Jaguar, and Volvo. Sirius will also be installing radios in Freightliner and Sterling heavy trucks.
jrbd
i was considering buying a neo. haven't been able to find much non-SSI info, but the little i have found has been positive. what kind of problems have people had with neo car jukebox?
You can get Sirius up in Anchorage, Alaska(most of the time) It does have certain times of day the birds dont seem to hit Alaska, but when it does..whew it comes in great!! As for XM, it barely comes in, and it has to be under the perfect conditons, and you cannot be moving in your vehicle- signal cant hold. Seems it is at about 20 degree angle in sky compared to 60 plus for Sirius. Repeaters would solve the problem for both XM and Sirius up here. Maybe someday...
To my understanding, as a customer of XM, satellite broadcasting is better for me as a customer, especially supplemented as it is with repeaters. If I am missing something, please let me know.
"Popular with truck drivers, taxi drivers, long distance (1+ hour each way) commuters" I don't know how many XM/Sirius listeners there are like me. I live inside the beltway in metro DC, seldom listen in my car for more than 15 minutes at a time, and virtually always am within range of some type of FM signal.
Re:
"hills - I'm sure. You can't receive your $10/mo. $200 radio when you're around hills."
Maybe you can't, but I did:
I drove on the Blue Ridge Parkway for three-plus hours, from Fancy Gap (I-77) to Spruce Pine, NC. The hills there are much steeper in relation to the road than any Interstate I've ever driven. To my pleasant surprise, I lost XM reception almost never. My best guess is that this is due to XM's signal buffer, and being relatively near the XM sattelite that (I think) is over Atlanta Ga.