XPlay: iPod with Windows

meanie writes "Mediafour, a company which specializes in cross-platform software introduced the XPlay software to link up your iPod with Windows. Looks like a solid product, but since I didn't buy an iPod due to lack of a Mac, I haven't been able to check out the software. Anyone try this yet? I might just buy an iPod now."

Comments

Time to go to CompUSA

[ejaw5]

Now if I get an Ipod I can go to CompUSA and download Office XP from a Windows PC onto the Ipod's hard-drive.

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[RebelTycoon]

Only if the box has a FireWire card in it... And that's not very common so unfortunately you are stuck only being able to download iMac stuff.

Of course, you could always use the iToshiba if you are really that much of a thief.

Is it that hard to just use Kazaa or even pay for software?

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[matthew.thompson]

No - Office v.X on the Mac is mostly self contained within it's own folder - many Mac products' install instructions are as simple as "Darg this folder to your hard-drive".

Office XP on Windows requires product activation and ties itself extensively into your Windows Registry.

So there's another reason to buy a Mac - software is easier to install :o)

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Ooblek]

Also...Good luck trying to find all of the dependent COM components that will be spread throughout the system32 directory and other directories. It is, unfortunately, not as simplistic as it is with the Mac.

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[LordYUK]

or you could just sit at home in the comfort of your own room and download it off of KaZaA (lite, of course!) :)

I believe its a file called "warcraft 3 beta ISO. WORKS!" (about 440 megs!) :)

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an application drive on a removable ata66 caddy that I can carry between my network of win2k/xp machines just fine.

OfficeXP when installed from a msdn pack requires no activation so I can't confirm your claim.

Quake3, Unreal Tournament, Office, Putty all work on any of the machines.

I'm sure any app that doesn't function when the path changes is either
a) poorly written
b) has a eula explicitly tying an install to a single machine/device

Making piracy easier for me is not a reason for me to apple.com/switch :P
F U D

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

Or u could just dload the Full version o fWarcraft 3 which came out last week in the warez world

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

And you don't have 80 billion dll's scattered all over creation. When will Microsoft get it right and handle shared libraries properly?

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[billcopc]

Well actually, the corporate (Select license) editions of M$ apps are devoid of activation crippleware. Hence my hassle-free WinXP at work. Besides, if you don't like the product activation, I'm sure someone out there has crafted a tool to disable it (other than a 10lb sledge).

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Office XP comes pre-bloated to prevent this kind fo theft.

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

it was a joke - you dork

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Teutates]

I believe it was a joke...

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Anonymous Coward]

damn, he was joking, IT WAS A JOKE!

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[edrugtrader]

So there's another reason to buy a Mac - software is easier to install^h^h^h^h^h^h^hpackage and pirate

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Aqua OS X]

Almost all new desktops have FireWire now. The trick is getting Xp to read a hard disk in HFS+ format.

Re:Time to go to CompUSA

[Verizon Guy]

When will *nix get it right and handle its binaries properly? Was that /bin or /usr/bin? Or was it /usr/local/bin? Damn, I think it was /opt/bin. Hmmph, it was in /sbin, no wonder I had to su!

Irony?

[FortKnox]

Follow a microsoft bashing article with software to run your iPod on Windows?

You guys kill me!

Re:Irony?

[idfrsr]

Blackadder : Crisis Baldrick, Crisis! No marriage, no money, more bills! For the first time in my life I've decided to follow a suggestion of yours. Saddle Prince George's horse.
Baldrick : Oh sir, you're not going to become a highwayman, are you?
Blackadder : No I'm auditioning for the part of Arnold the bat in Sheridon's new comedy.
Baldrick : Oh that's alright then.
Blackadder : Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick : Yeah! It's like goldy and bronzy, only it's made of iron.

Re:Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

you must be new around here. a few other examples:

RIAA/MPAA wants laws banning anythign that can copy "their" stuff. People shun DVDs/CDs, etc. At least until LotR comes out on DVD.

People bash MS Windows and shun it because of some flaw. At least until a Windows-only game comes out.

Welcome to Slashdot: Home of the Consistent.

Re:Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortknox posting something that kisses BillG's ass?

Oh wait, that's not ironic, that's par for the course... Nevermind...

Re:Irony?

[xWeston]

Don't worry, the comments are still microsoft bashing no matter the topic ;)

Re:Irony?

[festers]

The only thing worse than a Microsoft Troll is a Microsoft troll who doesn't know what "irony" means.

summary?

[Lysander Luddite]

"Looks like a solid product, but since I didn't buy an iPod due to lack of a Mac, I haven't been able to check out the software."

But the article says you don't need a Mac to use the iPod now. You should say "I haven't had a chance to try the software out because I don't yet own an iPod."

Re:summary?

[davmct]

How can the submitter make any claim to its solidity as a product when they've never used it? to be honest, it sounds like a cool product, but how well it works can't be interpreted from FUD.

Re:summary?

[Launch]

this post was not off topic, mod up mod'er.

Re:summary?

[Ignominious Cow Herd]

how well it works can't be interpreted from FUD.
For this case I think you need a new acronym. How about LIP (Laziness, Ignorance, Paucity)

Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Hollinger]

I tried out the beta version with the 5 gig model. It works pretty well. I think they did a good job of extending the iPod's audience.

One thing that the poster failed to note was that it does allow you to seamlessly transport files between the two platforms, and, in some cases, will even aid in file translation, by reading the MacOS file descriptors and translating those into simple extensions (.mpeg, .doc, etc.)

I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[afidel]

I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?

The answer is no. The reason is why the hell would he, other than being a controll freak? And the solution even if he did is to just not upgrade the firmware, that is the nice thing about appliances, if they are working you don't have to fix them =)

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?

This is Steve Jobs and Apple we're talking about, NOT Bill Gates and Microsoft.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Anonymous Coward]

Same difference, except Jobs is more vicious (he has to be, he's #2).

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[dhovis]

I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?

Don't be silly. This software saves Apple a lot of trouble. It will shut up everyone who has been clammoring for Apple to provide windows software, but Apple doesn't actually have to support it.

The iPod is just a portable hard drive. The difficulty was getting Windows to be able to read the HFS+ filesystem, and the only thing that had to be reverse engineered was the iTunes File format.

When Mediafour first anounounced this product, they called it xPod. Apple asked them to change the name and they complied, but that was the only request that they made. If it helps Apple sell more iPods without having to pay for support, Apple wins.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[kpetruse]

The answer could well be yes. Why haven't Apple made any attempt to release Windows software for the iPod? Because it's the iMac's killer app. Or rather, killer bit of hardware.

It's called a USP. And it's worked so far.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[nachoworld]

I've also tried the beta version and they've worked extremely well and the features had been improving with each of the 6 beta version.

To answer your question, Apple and Mediafour have always had an understanding. Mediafour has previously made the successful Macdrive, which let PCs read Mac files. Other than Apple's request for Mediafour to rename their product from XPod to Xplay (Xpod sounded too similar to iPod), Mediafour has gotten the unofficial/implicitly understood ok from Apple.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[dthable]

Why does this kill the iMac? If you ripped out the G4 components and dropped in a P4, everyone on /. would be trying to get one and run Linux on it. If you attempt to think outside the box, you could connect some dots in an intresting pattern...

Apple leverages Intel or AMD for chip designs. How many end users care about internal processors. They just want fast. Port OS X (using the resources they got from NeXT) to this new hardware platform. Continue to package the computer in new and exciting ways with the Apple software. Is the iPod still the iMac killer then? Cheaper hardware, better user interface and faster chip speeds (even if it doesn't matter).
br.
Wait...what would you complain about then?

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Zeinfeld]

I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?

They are probbly not that clueless, but trying to boost sales of Mac by tying the iPod to it was a real clueless move in the first place.

The problem Jobs has is that the iPod market is 5% of the size of the market that Archos, Nomad et. al. have access for. I don't think anyone is ever going to buy a Mac just to use an iPod.

While the software probably works OK the only way it is going to allow iPod to significantly penetrate the Windows market is if Apple has enough clues to bundle it.

Apple could have rescued the company by switching from being just a computer company with a stagnant and declining market share to an intelligent device company. But it can't do that if they tie their new products to trying to save their old one.

What Apple management simply canot get into their heads is that the fanaticism of Apple users does not mean that the rest of the world is wanting to switch to Mac.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[someonehasmyname]

He said "iMac's killer app," not "iMac killer."

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[krugdm]

Killer app

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Anonymous Coward]

My attitude is not Mac versus M$, but anything but M$. I will do whatever I can to avoid using M$ crap!

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[dthable]

Well, that 's doesn't mean anything....does it? I did misunderstand the orginial post.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[skirch]

If it helps Apple sell more iPods without having to pay for support, Apple wins.

Of course, I can see your point, but I don't think it's quite that simple for Apple. This has been mentioned here before in other articles, but Apple doesn't support Windows or any other alternative OS because they want to sell their hardware. Not their cheap hardware (iPod), their expensive hardware (iBook, PowerBook, etc.). Call me crazy, but the iPod was one of the stronger reasons that I was considering an Apple for my next computer. Now that it works with Windows, that's one less incentive for me to switch.

Whether Apple can make up the profit they lost on me by selling 20 iPaqs to other Windows users that never would've switched, well, that's what Apple has a room rull of statisticians (read: Steve Jobs sitting all by himself) for. I'm sure that "they" know what they're doing :)

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Fred IV]

This software saves Apple a lot of trouble. It will shut up everyone who has been clammoring for Apple to provide windows software, but Apple doesn't actually have to support it.

Seems like it saves Apple a lot of potential revenue as well. Kind of hard to compete with #1 when you aren't even willing to make money off the use of your own hardware.

Apple should have done this months ago, that is if they're interested in making more money. Bad business decision, IMHO.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is you're not a CEO. I'd probably keep things that way, were I you.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Dephex Twin]

Apple could have rescued the company by switching from being just a computer company with a stagnant and declining market share to an intelligent device company. But it can't do that if they tie their new products to trying to save their old one.

Yes, they are on the brink of collapse, aren't they? Better abandon ship before it's too late!

Thank you for the insight, Elmer FUD. Apple is doing just fine at the moment.

trying to boost sales of Mac by tying the iPod to it was a real clueless move in the first place.

Was it? It sure sweetens the whole package. But do you really think they make money from it? I'd bet the profit margin on the iPod is very slim, whereas the profit margin on a PowerMac is larger than the retail price of the iPod (in any case, much larger). They would need to sell many many iPods to get the same profit as they would make if they pushed one person over to owning a Mac. And "converting" someone to the Mac is more valuable than just the monetary amount as well. Once the person has a Mac, they are probably going to buy more Apple products.

Apple is looking out for the long term, and placing a few more iPod sales at such high importance is IMO shortsighted.

I don't think anyone is ever going to buy a Mac just to use an iPod.

No. But would they buy a Mac for the great Powerbook plus an iPod? And OS X? And the iApps? Etc etc. Don't you see that the iPod is just one small piece in this total user experience that attracts people to the product?

mark

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[bnenning]

I don't think anyone is ever going to buy a Mac just to use an iPod.

How do you know that? Look at all the publicity the iPod got. While I doubt many people saw it and immediately rushed out to buy an iMac, it's entirely possible that it caused many people to consider getting a Mac when they might not have otherwise.

Apple could have rescued the company by switching from being just a computer company with a stagnant and declining market share to an intelligent device company. But it can't do that if they tie their new products to trying to save their old one.

Apple is one of the few consistently profitable computer companies in today's market; they are hardly in need of "rescuing". The entire point of their intelligent device strategy is that designing the hardware, software, and OS leads to a superior user experience. Take that integration away, and you reduce Apple to a generic peripheral manufacturer.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Geekboy(Wizard)]

I run OpenBSD on my TiBook, quite well. Doing some upgrades this weekend to get more device support. =)

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[2nd Post!]

What does the fanaticism of Apple users have anything to do with the rest of the world wanting to switch to Mac?

People *do* want to switch to Mac, that's not the hard part.

The hard part is that it's more expensive to own a Mac than it is to own a PC.

iPods *have* been selling Macs.

People go in to look at the iPod and see a Mac. People see a Mac and think, "Wow!"

Macs really are all that, except that you pay more (about, what, 20% more?) for less performance.

But if you aren't a gamer, you won't notice the loss of performance.

And if you're into scientific or engineering fields, the OS X Unixy goodness makes up for the loss of performance. Besides which you'd just ssh into your big iron anyway.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Anonymous Coward]

"Shares of Apple tumbled $2.12 to $18.03 after hours, widening their year-to-date loss to 17.7 percent"

http://money.cnn.com/2002/06/18/technology/apple/

hardly what i would call "consistently profitable" as some of the mac fanatics above are claiming, also last quarter 2001 was the first point that Apple turned a profit, so they are not exactly brimming with stability, in fact they are probably more of an investors risk than other such companies

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[tshak]

What Apple management simply canot get into their heads is that the fanaticism of Apple users does not mean that the rest of the world is wanting to switch to Mac.


There is some truth to this. However, as a Windows user and early day Linux user this is the first time that I have EVER considered buying a Mac. True, the iPod should be cross platform (I'd have one by now), but at the same time it is a selling point (albeit a small one). Also, Mac's have been gaining some serious marketshare. The main reason I dropped Linux was all of the hardware issues (I appreciate the fact that it's gotten a lot better of late but I have yet to try the latest distro). With a Mac, I get a Unix with a very cool GUI all with true plug and play. Once the applications mature for OS X, I'm sure I'll be buying myself a used G3 to compliment my Win2K boxes. From my anecedotal evidence, I conclude that I'm definitely not the only one looking to buy a Mac for the first time.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[usr122122121]

The hard part is that it's more expensive to own a Mac than it is to own a PC.

ARGH!!! Common misconception!
The Gartner research firm recently showed in a report what all serious mac owners have known for a long time: Macs are cheaper than PCs in the long run.

You fell into the trap: Macs are more expensive to BUY, but less expensive to OWN.

I have macs running that are 8 years old [and older] and they still work just as well as they did when they came out of the box. Nothing has been replaced in these, I just added some more RAM. That's something you don't usually see in wintel machines... instead you see planned obsolescence.

Apple's products aren't cheap, but they last.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Zeinfeld]

I have macs running that are 8 years old [and older] and they still work just as well as they did when they came out of the box. Nothing has been replaced in these, I just added some more RAM. That's something you don't usually see in wintel machines... instead you see planned obsolescence.

That does not sit too well with my experience at the AI lab. Every model of powerbook required its own power supply - a trick that some WinTel manufacturers like Sony have adopted but many do not.

More seriously, incompatible interfaces introduced to force purchase of a new monitor with a new machine, render peripherals obsolete, etc. etc. Even when people were sold a machine with the promise of upgradability Apple thought nothing of breaking the promise - which eventually was made good in a consent decree.

Still the Apple appologists will go on supporting the company no matter what in the manner of a party pundit on a sunday morning talk show: "President Bush has been filmed holding a gang bang on Air Force One, how does that stand with his promise to maintain familly values and bring honour back to the White House?", "Well I think it sits very well, you will note that he held the gang bang on Air Force One and not the sacred soil of the Oval Office as did the anti-christ Clinton and in fulfillment of his 'familly values agenda' he made sure that invitations were sent out to his wife and children".

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Smurf]

"Shares of Apple tumbled $2.12 to $18.03 after hours, widening their year-to-date loss to 17.7 percent" [....] hardly what i would call "consistently profitable"

You are confusing stock prices and profitability. Although profitability (and profitability announcements and rumors) DO affect stock prices, there are a lot of other factors involved. In fact, you may be very surprised by Microsoft's stock behavior in the last years.

[...] also last quarter 2001 was the first point that Apple turned a profit, so they are not exactly brimming with stability

You've got it all wrong. The quarter prior to that one was the ONLY one in which Apple did NOT turn a profit in several years.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Jucius Maximus]

"I wonder if Steve's going to patch the iPod to make it incompatible with 3rd party software such as this?"

No. Apple was smart enough to wait for someone else to make PC Software for the iPod so that the huge PC Market would buy the product but Apple wouldn't have to support this large chunk of users. This is *exactly* what Steve wanted: he gets to sell products but not support them.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Oculus Habent]

If you follow it more closely, you know that Apple's HW & SW costs/sales are tightly connected. This is why Apple pulled the Licensing for the OS some time ago - the loss of hardware sales was taking money away from OS development.

Also, the faster, cheaper hardware you refer to lacks one thing: Drivers.

Sure, people can write them, and companies can offer them, but then you might introduce the system instabilities that plague Windows. Apple thrives on the "it just works" to the point that it is part of the Switch campaign. PCs can't claim that because there are too many variables.

Think about it - Apple has even taken steps to prevent you from interfering with the Mac's functionality. Only the PowerMac G4 has slots - everything else connects with standardized, plug-and-play, hot-plug technologies. Unless you disconnect drives while they're in use or run unstable software, the Mac just keeps on running.

I don't think they'll try to stop XPlay becuase it doesn't have the one thing you can't get on a PC: the seamless, intuitive integration of a Mac.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Zeinfeld]

Thank you for the insight, Elmer FUD. Apple is doing just fine at the moment.

Apple made a loss last year and in its previous year only made 750 million, that is not so good for a computer company, Dell made $1.2 billion and $2.2 billion in the same periods. More importantly the long term trend in AAPL revenues has been to climb for a few years then collapse. OK so AAPL revenues grew from 1998 to 2000, but they crashed in 2001 and in 1998. Now most companies revenues in the computer industry were off last year, but most computer companies grew in 1998.

I'd bet the profit margin on the iPod is very slim, whereas the profit margin on a PowerMac is larger than the retail price of the iPod (in any case, much larger).

On the contrary, the iPod can sell for a much higher percentage markup for good design than a computer can. The iPod retails for $500 which is about $200 higher than competing products from the likes of Archos - and the price differential is maintained after inevitable retail discounts. I don't think that even Apple could sustain a 66% premium in the notebook market.

In 5 years time the benchmark price for all PCs is likely to have dropped to $500. Bargain basement pieces of crap will probably be available for $200. Cell phones, PDAs, MP3 players and the like will still be available for $50, but designer labels will be able to charge $300 to $500 for genuinely better products.

The only good reason I have heard to buy an Apple computer is that their high end G4 laptops are pretty much the best portable arround to run UNIX on out of the box. If like myself you absolutely loathe Mac look and feel you can even run Gnome on top.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[rbolkey]

They are probbly not that clueless, but trying to boost sales of Mac by tying the iPod to it was a real clueless move in the first place.

I would have to disagree. The iPod is just a part of a very sweet package that Apple has been putting together. When you combine OS X, the iPod, T-Books, their cinemascreen monitors, etc, I'm finding myself considering an apple very seriously for the first time ever (i thought it would never happen). The sum is really greater than the parts.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Dephex Twin]

Apple made a loss last year and in its previous year only made 750 million, that is not so good for a computer company, Dell made $1.2 billion and $2.2 billion in the same periods.

I don't understand the comparison. Apple and Dell are the only computer manufacturers that have made it through the crash. Okay, great. How is Apple dying or faltering or anything else?

OK so AAPL revenues grew from 1998 to 2000, but they crashed in 2001 and in 1998.

Apple had a massive overhaul in 1998. This is when all the old stuff started going out, and the new was coming in. They completely streamlined their operation. After that transition, Apple has been performing quite efficiently. So what? Again, how does this indicate one way or the other about Apple today?

While many computer manufacturers have been firing employees by the thousands, Apple let 50 employees go. Honestly, say what you will about Apple, it's been pretty widespread thinking that Apple is chugging along pretty darn well.

On the contrary, the iPod can sell for a much higher percentage markup for good design than a computer can.

Now you are just making this up. Yes, in theory, anything's possible. Just because, in your opinion, an iPod can have a greater profit margin doesn't make it so (and in fact it isn't so).

The iPod retails for $500 which is about $200 higher than competing products from the likes of Archos - and the price differential is maintained after inevitable retail discounts.

More like $100. But this is irrelevant. Just because the iPod retails for $100 more than an Archos product doesn't mean that Apple makes an extra $100 on that device. In fact, it is extremely unlikely. You are ignoring things like superior design and materials. The iPod syncs with firewire, which also charges the iPod at the same time. The Archos runs on batteries. I won't get into it all. The point is, Apple just plain isn't making a huge profit on these things compared to their computers. It doesn't matter if you can construct a theoretical world where this would be possible.

You just piled so much FUD on top of what you originally wrote that if you continue I'm going to have to hire part-time help in order to shovel it all.

mark

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[rjung2k]

Yes, folks, let's just ignore the Gartner Group's report and teams of statisticans and accountants, and take the snecdotal word of Zeinfeld, local Slashdot Apple-bashing troll.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Hollinger]

Well, one little note: last time I checked, Apple has a fairly small market share (single digits, anyone?). So does BMW. And Mercedes. And Bentley. And they're doing fine.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[sorbits]

The difficulty was getting Windows to be able to read the HFS+ filesystem

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't this be completely handled by the iPod itself? I mean, it has to be able to read the file system when it isn't connected to a Mac...

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Zeinfeld]

Interesting, these days on slashdot you can criticise Linux, you can even praise Microsoft, you can even criticize Israel without getting modded down. But state some facts about Apple and you are going to get modded down as a troll.

I think that is more evidence that the Apple fanatics are in denial.

As for the current state of the company. I don't think that the computer hardware business is going to be particularly good for anyone in comming years. Apple and Sun are always going to be most vulnerable because they use custom processor designs and do their volumes are simply not great enough to fund enough R&D to keep up with Intel and AMD.

Even the Apple fanatics in the thread admit that Apple performance is off by 20% compared to Intel. That is despite the advantage that PowerPC has of a RISC instruction set. Apple no longer sell their machines on performance, three years ago they did. What happens in three years time when the performance gap is likely to be Intel is acknowledged to be twice as fast??

And don't try to pretend that performance does not matter. Three years ago we were being told it was everything and users would flock to Mac to get performance (even though Apple has never led in price/performance).

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[Zeinfeld]

Yes, folks, let's just ignore the Gartner Group's report and teams of statisticans and accountants, and take the snecdotal word of Zeinfeld, local Slashdot Apple-bashing troll.

I would rather trust Andersen than Gartner, Giga or any other of the analyst firms.

Are you referring to an independent, unbiased report or was the report commissioned by Apple?

The way most analyst reports work is that a company pays the analyst company a lot of money and the analyst company then produces a favorable report. If that turns out to be impossible the report does not get published.

Because people tend to be dubious of analyst reports purchased in this way a lot of analysts now insist that they publish 'independent' reports. What this means is that the analyst is not paid for the report itself, they are paid to participate in conference calls with financial analysts, or other 'consulting' activities.

So, yes, I am ignoring the Gartner report, none of the analyst companies has any credibility with me whatsoever.

Re:Works pretty well (in beta, anyway)

[BigBir3d]

Not to mention the financial report that Apple releases every year. Please note that the total sales for 2001 were off by about 32.5% from 2000.

Brilliant!

[Black Aardvark House]

Thanks to built-in MacDrive technology, XPlay even makes your iPod appear as a normal hard drive

I've owned other MP3 players and always had to deal with a special interface to add and remove files. This is the first time I've seen an MP3 player represented as another drive, making it super easy to manipulate your playlist!

This should lure a lot of Windows users to the iPod, or at least pique their interest.

Re:Brilliant!

[mike3411]

At least one other MP3 player does this, and has been doing this since it came out (and we all heard about it through the /. story) - the Nexx II, www.frontierlabs.com . Plugs into your USB and gets picked up as a standard removable drive, w/o the need for any extra software/drivers/hot pants.

Re:Brilliant!

[smd4985]

I've had my iPod with XPlay for about a week now, and it is simply amazing. What I'm most excited about is that being able to carry 1000-2000 songs in your pocket is a true innovation. Digital Music is here to stay simply because it is way too convenient compared to the other alternatives - the RIAA may try to sue small tech companies out of existence, but it won't matter. Consumers will demand digital music for years.

Re:Brilliant!

[Lumpy]

wow you should look at the better players more.

My NEXII is a CF card, just plop mp3's on the card and go.. no drivers needed, no silly database or other software.

Any mp3 player that requires any kind of database or other data structure other than reading the card and the tags is over-engineered and is probably full of DRM junk.

Re:Brilliant!

[mithras the prophet]

On the other hand, having the database means zero boot-up time. Without the database, you'd have to scan the entire disk for any new songs, read all the ID3 tags, etc. Check out reviews of the Nomad to see what I mean. Before you say, "well, my NEXII starts up right away!", compare your ~64megs of CF storage to 10 gigs. Also, the database structure enables auto-syncing which is pretty cool.

Re:Brilliant!

[MungoBBQ]

You should check out the excellent and cheap MP3-player Diva, which has received very high marks from users at MP3.com.

It can be bought with different amount of built-in flash memory and has a CompactFlash Type 1 slot where you can put inexpensive CF-cards to expand the memory.

This player does not even require any driver installations under Win2000/XP and is said to work with Linux (according to Diva themselves, read the FAQ). The memory card shows up as a removable drive in Windows when you connect the USB cable and it's extremeley simple to download or upload MP3s from/to the player. Yes, you read me right, no security protocol so you can easily move music from one computer to another too.

I just bought one and I couldn't be happier. Best player I've tried so far and definately lots of bang-for-your-buck.

Re:Brilliant!

[Dopefish128]

Any mp3 player that requires any kind of database or other data structure other than reading the card and the tags is over-engineered and is probably full of DRM junk.

Apple's been good about DRM. The only real protection on the iPod is that the software asks you if you want to wipe the music library after connecting it to a mac other than its home system. The database is more for fast booting, caching tags, and some data that doesn't belong in the id3 tag (like equalizer settings and song-specific volume adjustment). It's a practical solution.

Re:Brilliant!

[Lumpy]

it does start up right away.. and my IBM microdrive is much much larger than the assumed 64 meg card.

so yeah it's only 1 gig but it still is pretty close to what most people have in music in their portable player..... and tons more than anything sony or the other solid state devices have.

Re:Brilliant!

[Lumpy]

but the point is that it doesnt require some silly client program to assemble the database and do other useless things. the iPOD can have you just dump files on it and it's happy.

any mp3 player that is worth buying will have this feature. anything that requires special drivers and software... is junk. (Read that as any SONY,RCA or Diamond mp3 player)

Re:Brilliant!

[W1BMW]

You're still not getting anywhere near the bang for your buck as with an iPod. Let's figure for a moment that you can get an decent deal on CF memory at $50 per 128MB cartridge. By the time you get just 1GB worth of CF, you've now spent enough to buy a 5GB iPod.

128MB oughta be enough for anyone, right Bill? See how many miles you get into a cross country trip before you give up on hearing the same 20 songs over and over. Change the cartridges on your bike while pedaling your ass off? Why bother. Get an iPod. (this is an apple discussion board, after all :)

/zim

Oh, we could talk about the user interface, but we'd only need one word. 'Painless'

Re:Brilliant!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the Sony Clie, with the add-on Mp3 player, and it represents itself as another hard drive. I never even realized that others didn't, but i was never really much into that stuff. I just like music, and already had the Clie.

Re:Brilliant!

[your.conscience]

Any mp3 player that requires any kind of database or other data structure other than reading the card and the tags is over-engineered and is probably full of DRM junk.

The database allows easy managing of all of your songs on the iPod, because it can stay in memory permanently. The HD doesn't has to spin up adding a delay or additional power consumption.

The navigation via playlists, titels or artists is an instant experience. Imagine 1000 or 2000 songs in a flat directory structure which are read to retrieve information from the id3 tag.

iPod

[OmniVector]

The iPod is amazing. It's hard to believe no one has released a better mp3 player and it's been out for over a year or more now. There was a recent article about it on Zdnet, talking about USB2 vs FireWire on the iPod. Anyways, the fact that it now has software support for windows should definatly boost its sales. I'm surprised Apple didn't release a client in the first place for Windows. Now i just have to wonder why i would possibly do with 10 gigs of music?

Re:iPod

[Peyna]

10 gigs isn't really all THAT much. I just converted my entire CD collection to mp3s not too long ago, only about 100 or so CDs and it was 4 gigs worth of 128 kbps mp3s. (If someone really wants to check my math, go ahead, the 4 gigs is right, the number of CDs is close, but I might have done 256 kbps).

10 gigs is enough to keep you happy for sure though. You could probably put everything you owned on there, and then have room to add new stuff for a few years.

Re:iPod

[mchiang]

More space is better, but 10GB is roomy enough.

I keep my mp3 collection on an 80GB FireWire drive. I only sync the iPod with what I want to listen to.

When you go on a trip, you don't pack the contents of your closet, do you? :)

Re:iPod

[pkpkpkpk]

The iPod hasn't been out for over a year. Not even a year. November 2001, roughly. My Apple invoice doesn't lie. :-)

PK

Re:iPod

[weave]

10 gigs on my iPod and pretty high bit rates claims 5 and a half days of music and 1650 songs. Remember, this is only supposed to be a portable. I can't imagine listening to all that at once. If you get sick of that 10 gig set, just toss it and transfer another 10 gigs from your computer (actually, 9.2 gigs, I hate gig == billion crap).

Re:iPod

[kilfarsnar]

I have the 10GB version, and I filled it immediately. I have about 30GB of music on my hard drive (most of it legit) so I had to make choices! It's just nice to have music with me to suit my mood, no matter what it is! I'm glad to see that Windows software is out for the iPod. It's the best MP3 player around.

Re:iPod

[OmniVector]

The problem is, 10gb is so big that you'd sooner drain the batteries than hear a 10 gigs worth. That's why i think it's way too much for me. but 5 Gigs is great.

Re:iPod

[Eccles]

(actually, 9.2 gigs, I hate gig == billion crap).

The giga prefix meant 10^9 long before computer people started to use it for 2^30. "gibi" would be the appropriate prefix for 2^30.

Re:iPod

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh no, here we go again...

A disk drive is part of the computer culture. A round number in computer terms is a power of 2. A kilometer is certainly not a 1024 meters but a kilobit of memory is never going to be a 1000 bits. Since hard drive storage is just a different form of memory, it should be consistent.

p.s. if you reply, please do so AC so it's modded appropriately... It's certainly off topic.

Re:iPod

[GeckoX]

Approx 1000 cd's ripped at a good bitrate far exceeds 10g I tell you.
I have 4 removable 20g 7200 rpm hds I use to store my music collection, total probably ~20g left across all 4.

Re:iPod

[milquetoast]

the ipod has been out for nine months, not "over a year or more now".

I knew the software was in development....

[Merconium]

But haven't tried it. I think Apple may have really screwed itself now that Toshiba and SonicBlue (Rio) both have very nice Win-compatible HD based players. Sure, you can't get your name engraved on them.... :)

Re:I knew the software was in development....

[tfoss]

Thing is, the iPod isn't *just* a HD based player. It has so many nice little features that make it the best MP3 player to be had. The size, internal battery, elegant navigation system, simple, quick recharging, tremendous transfer speed, and just general good engineering all add up. None of them in and of themselves would be that great, but stick it all in the same package and you have a real winner. I haven't seen any portables that manage to really compete for a whole package.
BTW...Xplay has been usable for many months now, and, being Mac-less, is the reason I bought my iPod.

-Ted

Re:c'mon, give in...

[meringuoid]

Why do we suddenly like Apple so much? Simple. MacOS used to be a brain-dead eye-candy OS for idiots. Now, it's the long dreamed-of user-friendly UNIX for the masses!

Yes, all it took was that command line prompt ;-)

Why bother?

[wildekat]

just buy an Archos Jukebox, has win & linux support and 20gb storage..
allright it may not look so nice, but alas

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

My friend just bought a jukebox and returned it. Horrable UI! my ipod may only have 5gig, but you dont need a book just to run it.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

My archos Jukebox failed regularly and finally stopped working... in less than three weeks. Had it changed, for another unit which failed as well..
Had that one changed for an iPod, which is just perfect :-)

Deja vu :)

[justin_w_hall]

This sound a little familiar to anyone else?

Guess the editors lack some long term memory. :)

Re:Deja vu :)

[Sc00ter]

Also the fact that XPlay has been out since the iPod's been around :)

Re:Deja vu :)

[afidel]

The reason it's in the news again is that this is the final 1.0 product, not a technology preview or beta.

Re:Deja vu :)

[Jobe_br]

Glad someone else noticed this ... it should be old news: software exists to use an iPod with Windows. End of story. XPlay costs money, Ephpod is free. I'm sort of surprised that the pay software is getting more press on /. than the free one.

Re:Deja vu :)

[mccalli]

XPlay costs money, Ephpod is free

Ephod is free, but in order to use it you require Mac-drive reading software such as MacOpener or MacDrive. XPlay comes with this built-in.

In other words, a direct comparison should include the cost of getting HFS+-mounting software in the first place.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Deja vu :)

[freeweed]

I really have to start collecting posts with the words 'deja vu' in them - then I could make a neat little completely redundant post with links to previous posts pointing out that what you're saying has already been said on /. over and over and over and...

Re:Deja vu :)

[Jobe_br]

Very true, I stand corrected :)

Another option

[Erv Walter]

Another option is EphPod.

Re:Another option

[Anonymous Coward]

Ephod is free, but in order to use it you require HFS+ reading software such as MacOpener or MacDrive. Datavis is offering a discounted rate of their MacOpener software for EPHPod users, but it is still in the $30+ range, I believe.

XPlay includes Media4's MacDrive, therefore cost for the IPod user who doesn't need the software for other uses is rather similar.

Re:Another option

[pcwhalen]

I bought a 10 gig IPod for 400 dollars at the LI NY Microcenter. I use Ephpod with unbelievable results. I threw 3 gig of tunes on it so fast I thought it was a mistake. I used playlists from Winamp to organize playback. The only downside was that if you unplug, you need to reboot to have the Ipod recognised with a drive letter again.

experiences

[heavy]

I bought an iPod for about 2 months now (the 10GB version) and I don't own a Mac. My Gateway notebook only has a 4-pin (??? the small one anyway) FireWire port, but it works fine with the iPod.

I downloaded the XPlay beta versions and have had success using it since the beginning, although there have been a few hiccups along the way.

I just purchased XPlay 1.0 online today, but have not installed it yet. The last feature that I was waiting for was to be able to permanently disable the system tray icon and now they say that they enabled it...so I am happy.

Overall, a good product...although I do wish I could copy my MP3s from it, instead of only to it.

I did try my iPod with my mom's iMac/iTunes and it worked great...definitely the best way to go, but XPlay is the next best thing.

-> richard

Re:experiences

[jht]

The 4-pin FireWire port is perfectly compatible with iPod (or any other FireWire/1394 device, for that matter) - it just lacks the power leads that the larger port provides. So your Gateway notebook can't charge the iPod, but will be otherwise fine. Some devices (but not iPod) might require that power come from the FireWire bus, in which case you'd probably need a repeater with A/C power in.

All Macs have the 6-pin port that provides bus power. Add-in PCI FireWire cards do, too.

Just as a side note - all the DV camcorders I've seen (including my Canon ZR40) use the 4-pin variant - it takes up less space.

Re:experiences

[Cesaro]

Didn't EPH allow you to copy songs from the unit? Or am I mistaken?

Re:experiences

[billyj4]

Overall, a good product...although I do wish I could copy my MP3s from it, instead of only to it.

You can't copy from it using windows Explorer. This doesn't mean you can't copy from it. Just download another filemanager (coughwindowscommandercough)...

Buy a mac instead

[Anonymous Coward]

I am pretty sure that steve jobs has a tight control of licenses for software and hardware. It suprises me that no where on the site does it mention that they got permission from apple. I smell a lawsuit.

2nd or 3rd

[nachoman]

That is the second or third time this has been posted... One on XPlay, another on that other one. Let pudge do his job Jamie; post apple articles to the apple section. You can still have them come up on the main page.

Try this one

or this one

Re:2nd or 3rd

[Launch]

Troll... that's not fair, how about infomitive... don't take personal insults. The iPod is getting more play on slashdot then it deserves.

Re:2nd or 3rd

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not a troll... this *IS* the second time a similar article has been posted on the XPlay. Yes, I want to hear about the iPod, but tell me something new.

No troll.

And now this word from Real User!

[PhysicsGenius]

When I got my iPod I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread! With its innovative design and sleek styling, it brought me to the forefront of MP3 technology! Unfortunately, I don't own a Mac, due to budget constraints. Then I discovered XPlay and my life was changed forever! Just by following a few simple steps I was able to connect my iPod to Windows and download hundreds of my favorite hits from Celine Dion, N'Sync and many more!

Thanks XPlay!

Slashdot: Nobody has fewer commercial breaks and gets you back to the technical article faster!

instead of wasting time..

[paradesign]

getting the iPod to work on Win, why didnt they spend their time making their own version. the concept isnt to dificult, HDD/BATT/CONTROLLER. Toshiba managed to do it, possibly better (the inline remote.

oh, wait, you want the iPod because it looks cool, is trendy and fashionable, and youll impress the slut three cubes down, oh, my bad. Damn jealous windows users.

Re:instead of wasting time..

[Anonymous Coward]

oh, wait, you want the iPod because it looks cool, is trendy and fashionable, and youll impress the slut three cubes down, oh, my bad.

You just gave away Apple's entire 2002 marketing strategy.

Malda, this has to stop, before Apple or one of the other companies takes this site down for Trade Secret dissemination.

Re:instead of wasting time..

[dfn5]

Right, because reinventing a piece of hardware is much easier than reinventing the software to access it.

Re:instead of wasting time..

[Anonymous Coward]

People buy Apple products for three reasons:

1.) Their steadfast functionality,
2.) Their ease of use, and
3.) Their friendly UIs

That being said, there is nothing *wrong* with choosing a particular product in a market where the only differentiation may be outward appearance (you said yourself it is a simple construct). Simply, if you don't want to pay a little more for a product that will do everything it says it can [with some past exceptions, but their current products do] without a blue screen, that is intuitive the moment you pick it up, and just plain looks cool...then don't. The power of consumerism is in your hands. However, as another user mentioned, creating new hardware would be tremendously inefficient, especially since there are many others posting who bought iPods without even owning a Mac...there was definitely already a market for this software. There's nothing wrong with thinking past the Grey Box® ;)

A costly little toy

[falser]

$499 for the iPod, plus ~$30 for a firewire addon card (unless you have one on your mb, or have SBAudigy), plus $30 for the software... adds up to a very pricey little toy on a Windows machine.

I've been sitting on the sidelines for a while now because of the costly barrier to entry, and pretty much given up on the iPod. Toshiba's unit, though maybe not as cute and revolutionary, makes a whole lot more sense on a Windows system both technically and financially.

Re:A costly little toy

[swb]

I have a Sony MZE3 Minidisc player (and a home deck too), an Intel Pocket Concert 128M and I keep finding neither one of them perfectly satisfying.

The iPod looks sweet, but the cost seems just too much. In the past 20 years I've owned easily a dozen walkmen (most high-end Sonys) and they always broke -- sometimes the mechanisms gave up, but usually they just got dropped/squished or otherwise manhandled. I can't imagine that computer with HDD could be that much more rugged that after a year or so it didn't crap out too.

I'm going to give this Teac MiniCD MP3 player a try to see what its like. It seems like a good compromise between an MP3 player and Minidisc player -- more music per disc than Minidisc/solid state MP3 and faster recording time and definitely more affordable given the breakability of a $499 iPod.

If the iPod was $199 and had USB I wouldn't mind it. The funny thing about USB is that its only *truly* annoying for "real-time" transfers of a dozen songs where you sit there waiting. Drive mes nuts on my Intel 128M. I wouldn't have a problem moving a couple of gig over, since I could just let it go and come back in a couple of hours.

Re:A costly little toy

[TeamSPAM]

How is Toshiba's unit financially viable over the iPod on windows? Both will require you to have a Firewire card. The extra cost of the software will only make up about 6% of your total purchases to have a compact 5GB firewire mp3 player.

Re:A costly little toy

[freq]

yeah the ipod is a costly little toy.

have you looked at the archos mp3 player?

twice the space, plus recording, plus $100 less plus runs on AA batteries, plus linux/windows/mac software.

thank you.

Re:A costly little toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure or you can get a NEX-II and 2 256 Meg CF cards + a usb CF adapter for less than $250.00

Ipod is neat, but a waste.

Re:A costly little toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Cry me a river. Take the money most of you save when pirating software and buy an iPod. You all cry how cheap your WinBoxes are.. you've saved money, go buy it. If I can afford a Mac AND an iPod on my modest salary, I'm certain you can do the same.

Re:A costly little toy

[Gropo]

Correction: the Toshiba uses USB 2.0 (which will set you back the same $30 for a PCI add-in) and costs pretty much the same as the iPod (with a leet removable mini-drive, mind you)

Re:A costly little toy

[falser]

The Toshiba is USB 2.0 (USB1 compatible), so you're saving at least $60 over the iPod - that $60 is like the last thorn, I'm just not willing to budget that kind of money for such a tiny, single-function device.

Anyone looked at the cheap portable CD players in Best Buy lately - they cost (no kidding) $25! Now tell me that burning a few CDR's and using a cheap cd player won't hold anyone over until better, cheaper options are around.

Re:A costly little toy

[falser]

I axed the idea of getting an Archos after a work-friend got one which eventually died because of battery problems. That, and the manufacturer wasn't very cooperative in repairing the unit.

Re:A costly little toy

[Teutates]

One thing about the iPod is that it seems remarkably durable. I used to keep it in my shirt picket during work and every once in a while when I bent over or was getting out of my car, it fell...3-4 feet to the pavement. It's banged up but it works everytime.

Re:A costly little toy

[nemostultae]

The Toshiba is USB 2.0 (USB1 compatible) I don't see how your saving that much. The Toshiba is USB 2.0, but you need the USB 2.0 Card, not a USB 1 card. USB 2.0 is not USB 1 compatible, you should have said USB 1 is compatible with USB 2.0. You are really only saving $30 over the iPod.

Re:A costly little toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anybody follow that Archos link and see their new Multimedia?

http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbmm.h tm l

That looks pretty promising, and it's cute.

Re:A costly little toy

[2nd Post!]

Sure, burn yourself 10 CDRs and you're set :)

Or 18 CDRs for the 10gb version.

Oh, but you're not talking about an MP3 CD player.

Um, okay, then you're actually talking about 50 CDRs for the 5gb version, and 100 CDRs for the 10gb version.

I have to admit it's a luxury to be able to cart around 5gb of music around. I only have 3.5gb myself, but it's a real joy to use.

Re:A costly little toy

[2nd Post!]

Hmm, you list $499 for the 10gb iPod, $30 for the firewire card, and $30 for the software.

You do realize that the Gigabeat from Toshiba is only 5gb? If you want 10gb you need to buy a removable 5gb PC disk drive for $321?

So it's now $559 vs $725? The iPod is cheaper.

And if you're comparing to the 5gb version? Yeah, it's $459 vs $402. A $57 advantage to the Toshiba, which is bigger and bulkier, so you can say, you're paying for the size convenience.

Re:A costly little toy

[lucas_gonze]

I have an Archos Studio 20 and wouldn't recommend it. Intensely buggy -- constant power problems and disk errors. I'll probably chuck it and buy an iPod when iPod Linux support is mature.

Re:A costly little toy

[evilned]

My wife has an iPod, and I have a iRiver slim 350 mp3 disc player. Both surived our 18 day backpacking trip around europe fine. Although for battery life, the iriver kicked the iPods ass. I ony charged it once on the trip, but that was with the add on battery pack that takes 2 aa batteries. Both however worked flawlessly for the entire trip and are in great shape.

Re:A costly little toy

[TeamSPAM]

Ok, so we're now talking about 12% increase between the two. But it sounds like neither of those players are really in your price range. I agree that CD players that can play mp3 CDRs is a much better buy than any mp3 player using either compact flash or other memory card.

The thing with the Toshiba or iPod is that you can about 8 time the playing of the CD player with out having to carry around a CD holder. Also I can have multiple playlists for the music on the HD.

Re:A costly little toy

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, the firewire port *can* be used for other things from then on.

Re:A costly little toy

[lucas_gonze]

Once you get used to a portable HD packed with many gigs of MP3s you never go back. CDs aren't even close.

Re:A costly little toy

[Alex Thorpe]

I thought about it, before getting my 5GB iPod last week. But not only does a CD player not fit in the pocket, neither does the CD's, at least not in the dress slacks I have to wear to work. Even 2 CD's brought to work aren't going to last too long during an 8 hour work shift without a lot of replaying. $25 CD players probably go through a lot of batteries as well. I also don't own a CD burner, though I can borrow one from my father.

After a week, I can really only complain about the ear buds. They're a little big for some people's ears(not mine), felt a little uncomfortable at first, and now my ears feel funny when I'm NOT wearing them!

Re:A costly little toy

[jx100]

I have one and I'm actually pretty satisfied with it. It's a littse buggy, but for the most part the bugs don't really bug(no pun intenden) me. I'm satisfied with the UI, and I know of a project to replace the (incredibly easily replacable) firmware with at open-source alternative.

Re:A costly little toy

[Anonymous Coward]

plus runs on AA batteries

That's supposed to be a good thing? You say that it costs $100 less than an iPod. You will probably spend that much on batteries for it.

I can't understand why you consider this a "feature" to use bulky batteries that have to be replaced.

Compare this to the cutting-edge polymer film technology in the iPod. It recharges over the Firewire port, and the battery lasts for 10 hours of continuous use.

So you never have to even think about batteries. You come home and plug the iPod in to transfer some tunes, and it is charged up and ready to use again!

Plus the iPod has a much better music browsing interface, and is much more rugged. What's the point of saving a few dollars if you have to buy a replacement when your Archos unit breaks?

What about all the wasted time using USB for transfers that take 10 times as long as Firewire ones?

hmmmm

[colmore]

no matter how cool a portable music device is, i really just can't justify a purchase in the multiple hundreds of dollars for what is basically a slightly better discman.

it's like spending an extra $1000 on a PC just to play games and pirate DVDs.

give that cash to something more worthwhile.

Re:hmmmm

[foo12]

I've got my entire CD collection ripped (including the entire NMH collection, bootlegs and all, plus everybody's solo projects...) and will shortly be dumping the better part of it onto an iPod. That gives me about 5 days worth of music which I think qualifies as more than a "slightly better discman". Besides, I remember buying a Sony Discman in 1992 that was an upwards of US$200. A US$500 iPod isn't that awful for a music lover, justifiable on convenience and safety alone. (Safety? Yes, safety --- I don't have a changer in my car and it's dangerous to paw through stacks of CDs while driving.)

Re:hmmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

For US$299, Sony makes an 10-disc CD-Changer that reads MP3 discs, and with a compatible head-unit, you can even get ID3v1 tag support for scrolling artist/track names. I believe Alpine, and Pioneer have done the same with similar units, although they may be a bit higher in cost. Don't forget to mention what installation issues you went through to equip your in-dash head unit with a cable to connect to your iPod...or are you further degrading the mp3 sound quality in your car by using an analog cassette adapter/modulator??? Optical links in the car, from XM and MP3-CD changer to a multicolor display with ID3v1 tags, topped off with a remote, will make for a much safer and SOUNDer ;) drive than trying to read the tiny monochrome display on your iPod while searching for your favorite jam to stuff through an analog adapter.

$.02
Mike

Re:hmmmm

[freeweed]

it's like spending an extra $1000 on a PC just to play games and pirate DVDs.

OK, I can find you a PC for under $100 that can do word processing, go on the internet, and play games. What can't it do that an $1100 'power' system can? Play new games and DVDs.

Hmmm....

Re:hmmmm

[psxndc]

it's like spending an extra $1000 on a PC just to play games and pirate DVDs

Ummmmm... isn't this exactly what drives the sale of upper end PC's? Games and video editing (the former driving sales since forever, the latter more recently)?

Anyway, what you're paying for is the quality and the convenience. One reason I ditched my discman (and to be honest don't own a portable yet) is because I hate lugging around even five CD's with me. This thing holds 100's. On top of that, it doesn't skip and it's easy to navigate. If it had an input port for recording I would have bought one a long time ago (though 400 clams is still pretty steep).

psxndc

Re:hmmmm

[colmore]

Maybe a lot of people edit videos, but $1000 extra bucks for basically the functionality of a $200 Playstation 2, and not even then, because a low-end computer will play all the newest games, just not on the *highest* resolution and at the *maximum* detail.

frankly i think graphics look worse at 1600x1200, the polygons get so big that it completely ruins the illusion. if you're hitting framerates above 30, it doesn't matter how much higher you go, and i usually can't notice too much of a difference.

owning a $3000 computer is a lot like owning a $60,000 car. there really isn't any point, and you could have put the money to a much better use.

actually a Pentium II with 128 Megs of ram and a 2 year old video card will still run almost every game currently on the market. hardware has WAAAAAY outpaced software.

HFS Plus for Linux

[bill_mcgonigle]

There's a sourceforge project for HFS Plus on Linux listed as an alpha kernel patch which seems usable as of 6/6. HFS Plus is the filesystem used on the iPod, and Linux already has good 1394 mass storage support, so somebody just needs to roll a nice song browser, and the linux users can have an iPod too.

OK, Linux users probably don't need a song browser, but it sure would be nice. ;) ;)

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[mccalli]

... somebody just needs to roll a nice song browser, and the linux users can have an iPod too.

Well...not quite. There's more to iPod manipulation than just filesystem and IO device support. There's a proprietary database in there too. That would need reverse engineering.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[bill_mcgonigle]

Oh, right. Any idea how the shareware products work that set ID3 tags to let you use your iPod as a contact manager? Do they just let iTunes handle the database management?

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[mccalli]

Any idea how the shareware products work that set ID3 tags to let you use your iPod as a contact manager? Do they just let iTunes handle the database management?

Yes. That's exactly what they do. They set up zero-length mp3 files that have ID3 tags which match contact information.

They become obsolete after Apple released firmware 1.1 though. Firmware 1.1 has a built-in address book and can accept vCards. Stops the ID3-tag trick from being necessary.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[Teutates]

someone started this, but it hasn't moved at all since the day i found it (7 months ago)

The guys started hacking away at the db and looked like they were beginning to do a good job.

Here is the site

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[Bob The Cowboy]

Check out Xtunes.

http://xtunes.sf.net/

It's not done yet... but coming along nicely

Bill

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[baboyer]

If you read the post you replied to, you'd notice that the last update was June 6 (about three weeks ago). I admit that I don't put regular effort into this project, but please make sure you're correct when you badmouth someone. I do this work for my own enjoyment. If you want it done faster, perhaps you could help out in some way...

I've found that almost everyone is happy to complain, but very few actually do anything about it. If people like you stop making it enjoyable, it won't be worth doing at all.

Re:HFS Plus for Linux

[momobaxter]

I believe he was actually doing nothing more than making a comment. You seem a little upset because someone didn't say you were a God. He said you were doing a good job. I'm sorry that you can't accept just that.

Hehe, I can see it now

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides the fact that Steve Jobs lied about who got paid for what in their most recent smear advert campaign, now they are gonna claim that iPod was always compatible with PC (even though their initial claim back in the first days of release and hype was that it would NEVER be made to work with PC and it was Mac only all the way).

Bet the Mac crowd is booing now... *evil grin*

Re:Hehe, I can see it now

[PythonOrRuby]

Actually... Steve never said it wouldn't be made to work with Windows. He just said that Apple doesn't care about Windows...

paperweight

[nanoscrew]

my ipod was amazing for the time that it worked (about 5 days). Xplay was amazing, worked without flaw. I blame their lack of a "beta expired" message for killing my ipod. They put an error up instead which read "your ipod must be disconnected and reconnected to function since you recently did an ipod restore". I then proceeded to try other programs to fix it, ended up formatting the entire hard drive, and now whenever i plug it in it reboots my computer. xplay, i loved you, but why in hell did you not give a simple "beta expired" message??? my 400 dollar toy is now a farking paperweight!!!

Re:paperweight

[smagoun]

What, BETA software broke your toy?

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

Re:paperweight

[usr122122121]

[snip!]... my 400 dollar toy is now a farking paperweight!!!

Quick fix:
1) Find a mac.
2) Use the mac to restore it to Factory Condition.

Re:paperweight

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll give you $5 for your now useless paperweight.

Out of the goodness of my heart.

Re:paperweight

[dthable]

I saw a story on Apple releasing some software for the iPod on Windows? I would be shocked if the software doesn't allow you to restore the system on your iPod. You only need to wait until the New York conference (a few weeks away).

Re:paperweight

[X86Daddy]

If you want to get rid of that paperweight...

(in the voice of Pip) I'll pay 10 dollars for one!

Re:paperweight

[nanoscrew]

UPDATE: Where I work it turns out they have an imac dv edition. the os was 9.0.4 so i couldn't actually use the ipod for anything more than a hard drive, but i was able to format it correctly, thus allowing me to restore it using my windows computer. all the info on the ipod (serial, etc) seems to have dissappeared though.. how odd.

ARCHOS JUKEBOX

[cHiphead]

The Archos Jukebox has been doing this longer than any I've found. I've been eyeing these wonderful toys from their initial press releases and I must say they are what iPod aimed to be (and succeded). If only they had a harder marketing push...

http://www.archos.com

Re:ARCHOS JUKEBOX

[zvogt]

As an Archos Jukebox owner, I can say I'm quite happy. More storage, half the price. By the way, if you get one of these it's worth noting that Archos intentionally mislabeled the AC adapter that comes with the unit as a 9V DC output, which should ring 10-11V under no-load conditions. In reality it rings approximately 15-16V, so I assume it needs to supply a steady 12V under load. This is important if you want to buy a DC adapter to power the unit in a car for example.

Waiting for Ogg Vorbis support

[dfn5]

The iPod looks pretty cool and I would buy one, however, I am waiting for Ogg Vorbis support. MP3 is a lame technology due to software patents. Not to mention that my entire CD collection is in Ogg Vorbis format and I am not about to convert it. But as soon as Apple sees the light I'll be all over it.

Re:Waiting for Ogg Vorbis support

[Anonymous Coward]

whaddya mean you can't convert it? worst case scenario use the ogg tools to turn them into wavs and re-encode as mp3s.

Because the Archos is huge and ugly!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, it weighs around twice as much and doesn't fit into even the beefiest of pockets. Could you even think about running with that thing? No Way!

Who cares?

[af_robot]

I've read that Apple will release iTune for Windows with iPod support next month. (Steve Job's words)

Apple is Next!

[feldsteins]

The word on the street is that Apple is going to release their own Windows iPod software as soon as Macworld July. Remember you heard it here first. Unless you heard it somewhere else already :)

I suppose it's a good idea. Tons of folks have speculated that Apple sells more Macs because people want iPods and need Macs to run them. This may be true, but perhaps the iPod can be the "gateway drug" of PC to Macintosh conversion for some.

Re:Apple is Next!

[mccalli]

You know, reading that title I was about to leap in and agree with you.

Yes. These days Apple quite definitely is NeXT...

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Apple is Next!

[neema]

When I read your post, I got really excited. I've been using the iPod with xPlay successfuly in the past, but now it just doesn't work with it. Which is fine, I've got almost 10gigs of music on it, but I'd like to change some of the songs.

So when I heard that Apple was releasing software, I was happy about that, though skeptical.

Check out the article and it reads: "Apple will introduce a Windows version of the iPod". Not Windoiws iPod software as you claimed. They are specifically talking about an iPod for Windows. I'd rather they develop software for it, because I'd feel pretty dumb while having a mac-pointed iPod, trying to get it working with my Windows machine, while there was a Windows version out.

Re:Apple is Next!

[feldsteins]

C'mon. They're not going to re-engineer the unit just to add Windows compatiblity, especially since none is required. What they mean is, "buy an iPod in a box with Windows software on a CD inside." That, to me anyway, is what "iPod for Windows" means.

Lovely

[Richard5mith]

Just bought it last night, and it works perfectly. Seamless install, plugged in my iPod, appeared as an f: drive on my system, browsed through perfectly (it uses nice XP style icons, even though I'm not on XP) and dragged and dropped a whole bunch of folders on it which were sent to the iPod super quick. Even copied four sets of folders at the same time with no noticable slowdown.

Lovely.

Can I also say that I've had the iPod for months because I have a Powerbook G4, it's just easier for me on the Windows machine because that's where my 13Gb MP3 collection is (I ripped every CD I own), hooked up to my slimp3 (http://www.slimdevices.com).

more space is always better

[stego]

I though 10 GB would be plenty too, but now I have 12+Gb of MP3s...

Re:more space is always better

[haa...jesus christ]

and here I was in the mid eighties thinking that 640k would be more than enough for anybody. sheesh.

XPlay is okay

[elocutio]

It allows you to hook your iPod up to your PC's FireWire card and use it like a hard drive. You just "Drag And Drop"(TM) the .mp3 files that you want to use, and the iPod's on-board software takes care of playback.

I haven't figured out a way to order the songs, though. With a Mac running iTunes, you just change the way the songs are sorted, and the changes are saved on the iPod. Or, you could create new playlists for the iPod and customize the playback order. Or, you could just turn the shuffle feature on the iPod if you don't have a preference. Regardless, I got a copy of XPlay, and I was mostly pleased with it. It lets me take files from home to the office and vice-versa, so it's manageable for what I need. I prefer using iTunes to "Hot-Sync"(TM) my iPod because of the extra features, but XPlay is certainly manageable.

We've already had a discussion thread about XPlay before, so you may find some helpful info there.

As far as the iPod is concerned, I couldn't be more pleased. I have the 10gig version, and it stores all 90+ of my CD's. I've spent weeks sorting through songs and getting things organized. It's a lot of fun, and the interface is super-intuitive. If you're interested in getting the iPod, note that the 10gig version ships with the latest version of iPod software, where the 5 gig does not. You can download a free update from Apple, but I'm not entirely sure how a PC user without Mac access would install the update. I'm sure your local Apple dealer would accommodate you if you were nice to them, especially if you lived close to an Apple Store.

Re:XPlay is okay

[mccalli]

I haven't figured out a way to order the songs, though.

Took me a while to get this. Switch to viewing in Detail mode - you can then drag the tracks around to the order you choose.

Well, in playlists at least. Haven't tried it when just looking at albums or the whole song list.

Cheers,
Ian

for god's sake man, don't get an ipod!

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a Nomad Jukebox 3! 20GB storage, EAX audio presets (in fact you can plug a 4.1 speaker system into it and use various 3d spatialization effects), audio recording ability, backlit LCD, 11hrs playback on 1 battery, firewire interface, WMA playing ability for a lower price than the iPod, according to pricewatch. The Jukebox 3 is bigger than an iPod (about the size of a large CD player) but the extra capacity I think is worth it. Due to it using a filesystem other than FAT32 or NTFS (the filesystem is a proprietary one optimized for audio files and low power consumption), files cannot be transferred to the Jukebox 3 from a PC not having the JB3 software, but you can carry the software around on a floppy disk and install it as needed. Sure it's a lot bigger than an iPod, but it's got a lot more features and is a lot cheaper (according to pricewatch.com).

review here: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q2/020419/in dex.html

she's nice

[jubblock]

i have an ipod and use XP, and i like xplay. the latest beta's got even better at integrating ipod's disk into windows explorer. the other option is ephpod which is a standalone app but requires macopener by dataviz. this is the most annoying piece of software ever.

XPlay

[Anonymous Coward]

I used beta2 and it was solid. Worked as promised. Not bad for $30.

FireWire

[Teko]

One word: FIREWIRE.

Firewire is the iPod's killer feature. On purchasing my iPod, I transferred 3.5 gig of mp3s to it in the space of less than three minutes. Moving songs on and off of it is so fast that I don't even think about it; it's nearly instantaneous.

My iPod has replaced my old Zip drive, as well; I use it for all file transfers between work and home. It's tiny, convenient, incredibly simple to use, and blazingly fast.

The USB-based Archos is archaic.

You'd be better off getting a iPaq with 5GB PCMCIA

[Anonymous Coward]

card from Toshiba. Just get the 2 card slot and you can add another 5GB and do a hell of a lot more than just listen to music. Plus it runs linux or WinCE.

Been an XPlay user since beta 4

[mccalli]

I've been a user since beta 4. Beta 4 blue-screened my system, so I got involved with the beta forums.

Since then things improved rapidly, and the company is responsive to what people say. The software is working well for me (final beta, not upgraded to 1.0 as yet) and they even added a playlist-related feature that I requested.

Its advantage over Ephod is that it includes an HFS+ reader with the software. Ephod requires you to have some form of Mac drive-reading software already (MacDrive or MacOpener), whereas XPlay comes with a stripped-down MacDrive driver anyway.

Cheers,
Ian

Quick question

[MrFredBloggs]

Whats the problem with a solid state solution? Would it be expensive/hard to have a little box with a firewire/usb socket on the side, and 256/512/1024 mb of standard pc ram inside? With the speed of firewire, it wouldnt matter if turning it off made you lose all the data - you`d just download what you wanted again. What sort of battery would you need to keep that much ram refreshed for, say, 12 hours?

Re:Quick question

[foo12]

Errr... but why solid state? 1.0GB of RAM will set you back at least US$500 while you can get a 10GB iPod for the same price. I can understand for shock proofing and mechanical wear (no moving parts with solid state), but today's laptop hard drives (which is basically what the toshiba drive in the iPod is) are probably over-engineered when it comes to a portable MP3 player.

Re:Quick question

[MrFredBloggs]

No moving parts, smaller, use less power (possibly, thats what i was asking!), and cheaper!

$500 for 1 gig of ram? www.pricewatch.com is saying around $300 for 1 gig of ram. But you might be right - I dont know what sort of ram you`d want (to implement a solid state mp3 player)

(I`m in the UK. An 10gig iPod is £429.00!)

But I dont know. Yes, 10gig is loads more space, but i was just thinking it`d be cheaper. I could live with having `just` 1 gig of mp3s on me at any one time if it meant it was cheaper and smaller!

Re:Quick question

[PythonOrRuby]

The iPod's 1.8"(the vast mjority of laptop HDs are 2.5") hard drive is already quite well shock-proofed, with enough room to accomodate the Toshiba 20GB drive without compromising the "buffer" around the drive.

Re:Quick question

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure it would use less power...
The hard drive inside the iPod spins for 10 seconds once every 20 minutes... (reads the 3-4 nexts songs and loads it to the 32 MB of RAM)... which provides 10 hours of use.

And the problem with RAM is that it erases itself when the power depletes... Imagine the frustration if you're travelling far from your home and suddenly lose all your music lib... :-/

lame due to patents?

[bill_mcgonigle]

It's worth noting that since iTunes and iPod are commercial products, Apple has covered the necessary licensing fees for you (read, passed them on to you), so if you're only using a Mac/iTunes/iPod for your music, you don't need to feel guilty about not paying any licensing fees or using a product illegally.

If the issue is just that you don't want to use any products covered by patents, you'd have to get rid of most of your appliances, cars, computers, electronics, etc., living in the woods with home-built tools. OK, you could have electricity and a phone but you'd have to buy a service panel and phone that were more than 17 years old. Most new phones have DSP's, and the DSP code is covered by software patents. It's a grim reality, but reality nonetheless.

Re:lame due to patents?

[dfn5]

Your talking about replacing a patented technology using a patent free technology that is 17 years old. I'm talking about replacing a patented technology with a patent free technology that was developed recently and is comparable if not better than MP3. And the adoption of this technology is growing by leaps and bounds. It is only a matter of time before Apple jumps on the bandwagon.

Re:lame due to patents?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Oh, right, I agree it's the ideal direction. I just wasn't sure why the status quo is a barrier to entry.

The economics of it are hard. If Apple has to add and maintain an Ogg encoder, that costs something. The cost would easily be offset by the eliminated licensing cost of MP3. However, they'd have to take MP3 out at that point. Not supporting MP3 on the player is going to be a tough sell for the next several years. It's a bootstrapping problem, for sure, but Apple is pretty good about spending some $ to bootstrap the instustry into a technology when it sees a future benefit for itself.

MP3 is "lame"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardly. Despite the patent "non-issue" (consumers don't care, and that's who buys), MP3 is excellent for the niche that it fills. It's the de-facto digital audio format and, like the internal combustion engine or the NTSC television, will not be taken over easily due to its installed base and support.

Like it or hate it, you will have to live with MP3 being around for 3 more years at the least, no matter what comes down the chute.

Re:MP3 is "lame"?

[MasteroftheVoxel]

MP3 *is* lame. The technology is quickly becoming dated, and it is unable to keep up with the increasing demand for better audio quality. It was claimed to be "near-CD quality" but anybody with ears will know that that is a pretty generous comment.

Several companies have (closed) audio standards that sound much better than mp3 at lower bit rates. Unfortunately, they are secret or covered by patents.

Ogg Vorbis at 128kbit sounds better than MP3 at 128kbit, in my opinion, but that is debatable.
Ogg at 192kbit will sound better than MP3 at *any* bitrate.

Just because many people use MP3s doesn't mean we can't migrate to a new, better standard.

Remember that NTSC was a *hack* to get color TV to fit into the alloted black and white bandwidth. Now that black and white broadcast television is long obsolete, we are desperately in need of a new television standard. HDTV is taking a long time in coming.

The internal combustion engine is easy to engineer but it is horribly inefficient. External combustion engines (such as the Stirling Engine) are way more efficient and I believe we will begin to see them in the future. The Segway people have several working prototypes.

Basically, what makes something a "de-facto" standard is the fact that people use it. If you don't like it, don't use it and convince others to go with your standard. When you are encoding your own audio (from CD) and playing it on your own player, who cares what standard you use. If you want to use Ogg, use it, and let the player manufacturers know you want support for it. For those of you who will cry when MP3 is replaced by something better, deal with it. Go home and listen to your 8 tracks.

Personally, I am going to buy an iPod and investigate porting Ogg Vorbis to it. In the open source world sometimes if you want something you have to write it yourself.

OK geek, we'll get right on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, the entire industry is mobilizing right now just to satisfy your peculiar little set of needs. We'll get back to you asap.

iPod incomplete without iTunes

[toupsie]

When the iPod was first announced, I ragged on it. Another MP3 player, YAWN! I already have a 6gig Archos Jukebox, why would I want an iPod? When it hit the stores, I still had to see one -- its an Apple product and I am an Apple Zealot. I walked into a store asked to see one, played with the jog wheel for 1 minute, looked at the display, pulled out a credit card and bought the sucker.

Its great that Windows users will get to feed MP3s to this player, however, without iTunes, I think you will be missing the full "iPod Experience". I don't think I have ever seen a hardware product work so well with software. Its just plain seamless. Even my Mom was able to figure it out on the first try when my Dad gave an iPod to her after seeing mine. The VCR flummuxes her -- it has flashed 12:00 for three years.

I am sure that XPlay is some devious plot by Steve Jobs to get all of you guys to switch. I don't see how XPlay can compete with iTunes in dealing with the iPod. iTunes is the best UNIX based MP3 player around, if not the best MP3 player, period.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[TheSync]

The VCR flummuxes her -- it has flashed 12:00 for three years.

Many new VCRs have a feature that sets the clock based on an XDS signal broadcast by PBS stations. Maybe the blinking clock will be forgotten in a few years...

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[toupsie]

Now that's cool. Majority of the time when I walk into my "non-techie" friends's houses, their VCR is always in that state. I would have thought they would have captured the radio signal from the Navy Nuke Clocks like the soothing sounds, clock radios at Sharper Image but I guess XDS will do the job just as well.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

I see that the drooling windows users have progressed from the tired old "there's no software"?

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwwww, lil' junior can't play his newest video games on a Mac? Daddy is sorry, precious!

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[EvlG]

Or just get a TiVo.

Better features, easier to use, more convenient, and it sets the clock automatically (even on DST!)

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[makisupa]

Having used both, I'll take XPlay any time over iTunes.

I'm sure that my mother would also enjoy iTunes, but then again she's an old woman.

iTunes is grossly lacking in configuration options, any winamp user using iTunes would be appalled at the lack of functionality.

Sure, it 'automatically' syncs up the iPod, but what happens when you have 6GB of mp3 and a 5GB iPod?? Well, it fills it up and then tells you that you can't put anything more on it. Not that it lets you choose *what* you want on the iPod (and what you don't) or lets you delete songs from the iPod.

And what do you get with XPlay? A gorgous integration with the windows explorer. IMO, as someone who's not a luddite soccer mom whose main interest is that the software be 'pretty', XPlay kicks ass all over the mac software.

And, yes, I too was once a Apple biggot. Then I mended my ways, got a CS degree, and found Linux.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[toupsie]

iTunes is grossly lacking in configuration options, any winamp user using iTunes would be appalled at the lack of functionality.

Configuration options? Like playing music? iTunes has both 'Play' and 'Stop' along with some fancier controls that allow to advance music forwards and backwards. It even has this whiz-bang feature that automagically rips MP3s just my inserting a CD and labels the MP3s with ID3 tags. All of this for free!

And, yes, I too was once a Apple biggot. Then I mended my ways, got a CS degree, and found Linux.

Ew, sorry to hear that. I heard those CS degrees don't pay off in the long run. Guess things must be rough for you financially when you are having to use a free 'UNIX-like' operating system on cheap x86 hardware instead of a real UNIX operating system like Apple's Mac OS X on well designed, complimentary hardware.

[tongue removed from cheek]

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[plumby]

Mine's got this feature, but it's also got an analog clock. First time I plugged it in, I wondered what the hell was noise was as the clock spun round to the correct time.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[Randar the Lava Liza]

You need to switch iTunes from automatic syncing to manual mode. Then you can add, remove, or do whatever you'd like. I have always had mine in manual mode, since I keep my mp3's on the iPod and sync with my iBook, but my primary mp3 storage is on a server at work.

Just change your prefs in iTunes to manual and you're set.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[Llywelyn]

"Sure, it 'automatically' syncs up the iPod, but what happens when you have 6GB of mp3 and a 5GB iPod?? "

Step 1: Click on the iPod button.
Step 2: Select "Manually Manage Songs and Playlists"
Step 3: Manually manage your songs and playlists.

"iTunes is grossly lacking in configuration options, any winamp user using iTunes would be appalled at the lack of functionality."

Either that or thrilled with the ability to find everything at a glance.

"And, yes, I too was once a Apple biggot. Then I mended my ways, got a CS degree, and found Linux."

Odd. I was thinking about converting completely to linux, but I mended by ways, got a CS degree, and found MacOS X.

Re:iPod incomplete without iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Step 1: Click on the iPod button.
Step 2: Select "Manually Manage Songs and Playlists"
Step 3: Manually manage your songs and playlists.

... and look, you don't even need a CS degree. Baahahaha.

ephpod w/ mac opener is far more stable

[Anonymous Coward]

Ive used several of the xplay betas and they all had serious issues with 'write errors' and corrupted song databases. Several times my only fix was to wipe the ipod clean and start over which was frustrating, but the software was beta what was I to expect? Im now using ephpod + mac opener on XP and its been solid as a rock and its interface is far superior to that of xplay IMHO -- way more features.

http://www.ephpod.com/

I would highly recommend this as a better alternative to xplay.

Sonicblue RioOne

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got one of these and even it appears as a drive when you plug it in...what MP3 players have you been using?

Magic Linux Monkeys

[NiN3x]

Why havn't all of you crazed linux heads made your own software for this thing yet? I thought linux was up to date with the wholedesktop computer thing... Oh well.

I can't use it

[Mr_Silver]

I'd love an ipod and to use it on both my work PC and my home PC. Installing a firewire card on my home PC is not a problem - but totally out for my work PC.

So unless there is some sort of Firewire -> USB convertor then I'll never be able to transfer files to/from machines which don't have a firewire card in. I simply can't pop open my work PC and stick a card in - they'd have hysterics.

Shame really for me, but for a lot of people this probably won't be a problem.

Re:I can't use it

[stephend]

You must work long hours! 1000 songs at 4 minutes each is... um... nearly three days. I've had an iPod since January and never felt that I needed to refresh it with more songs half way through the day.

Re:I can't use it

[Mr_Silver]

I've had an iPod since January and never felt that I needed to refresh it with more songs half way through the day.

:o)

I have a 56k modem at home and a big fat pipe at work. Therefore it would make more sense to download and place the music on the ipod at work, rather than home.

Re:I can't use it

[DaDigz]

...and incur the wrath of the network gods. :)

You think they'd go crazy over you adding a Firewire card? Wait 'till you see the apoplexy starting when your Internet usage spikes 500 MB in one day. :)

Repost

[noz]

Of EphPod and previously XPlay. Goooo jamie!

Milk and eggs haven't been out for more than a day

[Anonymous Coward]

My supermarket invoice doesn't lie, either

DO NOT BUY an iPOD

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, listen up! It is hard drive in a case, but
YOU CANNOT REPLACE THE BATTERY! You have to send it to APPLE for a battery replacement. These pieces of shit carry a 90 day warranty! Drop it by accident, and you just threw the purchase price away!
.
.
.
DO NOT FALL FOR THIS SCAM!!!. Wait for decent sized flash memory and a player. Something solid state would better serve the people!

Re:DO NOT BUY an iPOD

[Colol]

It helps if you're playing with facts rather than a bunch of crap which isn't accurate.

1. No, the battery isn't replacable by the user. But it holds a 10 hour charge quite admirably, and it's a long-life Lithium-based battery. By the tame you would need to replace the battery, you wouldn't be using the iPod you have now anymore.

2. Of course you have to send it to Apple for a battery replacement. It's a special battery built just for Apple. However, it is trivial to dissassemble the pod and remove/replace parts.

3. 90 day warranty is accurate. However, you can obtain a very cheap 2 year warranty from many brick-and-mortars selling it, Apple has been known to support it past the warranty, and many credit cards will double your warranty time.

4. I've dropped my iPod 5 times. It still functions, and it isn't any worse for wear. The things are built to be solid, which is why...

5. Solid state doesn't matter. First of all, 5 or 10 gigs in solid state would be ungodly expensive. Beyond that, though, the iPod *IS* solid state when it's playing! Unless your song exceeds half an hour, the hard drive comes on only long enough to copy it into the iPod's RAM, then shuts back down. There are no "moving parts" to worry about for most songs. On top of that, the drive used in the iPod is one of the smallest and most rugged drives on the market.

Re:DO NOT BUY an iPOD

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I am an Apple Certified Tech and work on these pieces of crap all day long. YMMV, but from my expierence, they are comming back as returns in droves. That 2 year warranty, unless it comes DIRECTLY from Apple, is not worth the paper it is written on. Dropped it 5 times, what, on your bed, or concrete floor while it is playing? Come on out, apply for the job and if accepted, you can take my place. A person gets tired of working on crap all day.
.
Long-life battery? Funny, very funny.
.
Solid state doesn't matter? Cool, dump anything you own that can be replaced with vacuum tubes!Just throw it the fuck away! Scrap it.
Then tell me it does not matter, YES, trash your computer too!
.
PS, I owned a Lisa when they first came out. just an FYI thing.

Re:DO NOT BUY an iPOD

[usermilk]

Do you work for Apple? If not you are lying. Apple is the only people that can work on it. Technicians that don't work directly for Apple can do nothing without voiding the warrenty.

xplay versus ephpod?

[DrSbaitso]

I have a birthday coming up soon - my 21st =) Basically my parents are giving me a bunch of Polo shirts and the like, which is nice but not as exciting as what I got when I was a kid (of course). I am thinking about asking for an iPod in lieu of a new wardrobe, or just buying one myself.

That said, I use WinXP on an Athlon. I've heard that EphPod is a great piece of software as well, and with MacOpener costing about the same as xPlay does, they compete on price. Is there anyone out there who has used both? Which one is better? Also, do you have to use a Mac to flash your firmware? Appreciate any replies.

Re:xplay versus ephpod?

[dthable]

Before purchasing, I would wait until the end of July. According to this story, Apple is going to release some Windows software for managing the iPod. I have a feeling that this software is going to allow Windows users to work with the iPod like you can work with it on the Mac. (Flashing memory, restoring system, etc.) Of course, it will still be easier on a Mac.

question for windows iPod users

[paradesign]

how do you update your iPod?

Re:question for windows iPod users

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

how do you update your iPod?

We get by with a little help from our friends.

Didn't buy an iPod because of lack of a Mac?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't buy an iPod because it's $500. And I have a Mac!

-David

Yawn, this again?

[jpegNY]

*yawn* How many times has this been written about?

xPlay & iPod - music & file backup

[AugustFalcon]

I have been doing the beta test stuff with xPlay on my 10 gig iPod and purchased the 1.0 version yesterday.

I had a few minor problems with a couple of the betas with respect to firewire ports. In my case the Audigy Fireway ports sometimes hung, but many others had no difficulty whatsoever with the Audigy cards. I went to the Adaptec Duo card and have had no problems since.

I have about 1,663 mp3s at 140 kbit or so encoding and have used about 7.34 gig of the 9.27 or so available. I use the remaining 1.92 gig to backup the office data daily. Works great. Obviously, it is not a longterm backup solution but it amounts to the belt part of my "belt and suspenders solution." It gives me that little extra comfort level.

Now I just need to find a cassette adapter which will work in my GM car radio and I will be happy.

Re:xPlay & iPod - music & file backup

[Anonymous Coward]

if you can't find one that works (not sure why it doesn't work, but that's ok) use the radio adaptor instead. Apple made a mini radio transmitter for the ipod so that you can pick up a radio signal simply by tuning into the frequency that you choose:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects /A ppleStore.woa/173/wo/kloqt1nOOsQI09DKNc/2.5.0.3.30 . .15.6.9.0

Sync to Rhythmbox

[Anonymous Coward]

Rhythmbox is an iTunes clone for Linux; if it could use the iTunes database format, it would be an obvious choice.

Re:Why bother?... and wait...and wait...and wait..

[Uncertain Bohr]

And you can keep waiting while you attempt to load your latest album on your mp3 player before catching your plane or bus... Oh wait... your winbox just crashed too... well, maybe saving a few bucks was not really worth it in the end...

I just love my ipod. Never failed, always fast and reliable... always! :-))

And this is for?

[Anonymous Coward]

First, no Windows here right now.

Second, as someone said, it would be an easy way to get unlicenced Windows. But, unlicenced Windows is more often found than air, so?

Third, I'm in this Linux thing not only for the coolness factor, but also because it may be openly used, instead of living under a rock, like some Windows unlicenced users.

Fourth, why on this blessed (or troubled) Earth would I promote more usage of Windows. Isn't almost 90% enough for them?

I'm tired and it's PUN TIME!

[billcopc]

It was originally called XPod, but that would have been confusing, so they renamed it XPlay. As long as 'XP' is in there for marketing purposes. Now how should we pronounce it ? X-Play, XP-Lay ? Will it enhance my laying eXPerience ? Maybe if they threw in a wireless vibration function :)

Re:I'm tired and it's PUN TIME!

[dalamcd]

No, no, it's pronounced 'ten-play'.

dalamcd

Surely clusters have the point moot

[Anonymous Coward]

With the advent of Beowulf Clusters as a consumer item (hell, you can get them at Costco now!!) products like the iPod just seem a bit irrelevant.

Linux Support

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anyone working on Linux software to connect to an iPod?

Re:FireWire (USB 2.0 on archos 20 recorder!!!)

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be true for the older Archos devices, but the Archos 20 recorder has a USB 2.0 interface which should compare quite well with the firewire interface of the iPod. Besides, how many people are really going to be actively transfering multiple Gigs of MP3s back and forth between their player and their computer? I would expect that most users will load all of their music on their player once and then not have to worry about it, save for loading on new music as new CDs are purchased.

I will agree that the UI on the archos isn't the most lucid, but it works well enough. I don't think this is as strong of an argument on this board since I'm sure that most of the linux users here didn't stop using linux just because of a less-than-perfect UI.

IMO, the cost of the iPod is still too high when compared to devices like the Archos 20 recorder. I honestly cannot see the need for spending $200 more for a device with a smaller drive and a firewire-only interface. This is fine if you've only got an iMac and want to work with iTunes, but not so if you have other hardware that is more expandable (ie, can have a USB 2.0 card added to it). My archos works just fine under linux and win2k and if I dropped a USB 2.0 card into my aging beige G3 (which has neither USB or firewire on its motherboard), I'm sure it would work just fine there as well.

AA batteries are a good thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

I may have paid a lot for my iPod, but I use it constantly, and not having to go through the cost and inconvienence of getting new AAs all the time is one of my favorite features. Plus the Archos is about $70 less, not $100 (list price) I don't need 20 GB, and it's ease of use is a joke compared to the iPod.

I'd rather use Firewire than USB2, as I can charge the unit while I sync it, plus plug it into the wall using the same cable and a block plug.

Durable

[Ster]

I've have a 5GB version for about six or seven months. For the first few, until I got myself a belt-clip for it, I carried the little guy in my hand most of the time.

I usually have decent coordination, but I guess there's something about having $500 of hardware in your hands that makes Nature want to mess with you. I somehow managed to trip two or three times while carrying my iPod, each while it was playing. There wasn't a skip, pop, distortion, or anything like that. When I plugged it into my iBook, it came up just fine, I could transfer files and music... In one case, I broke my fall with my hands, which put most of my body weight on one corner of the iPod. The result: a barely visible dent.

Overall, I've found my iPod to be VERY durable. The poor thing's been dropped, broken my fall, been sat on, been in my backback going to and from campus on the bus (where backpacks routinely get kicked, tripped over, etc.), and I recently even left it sitting in the glove compartment of my car for one of the hottest weekends in Houston. No problems, and no damage beyond some faint scratches. (They really should have made the thing BRUSHED aluminum! Scratches don't show up as well, and neither do fingerprints!)

Your mileage my vary, of course, but I don't consider my iPod to be very breakable.

-Ster

P.S. MacWorld did an iPod "Torture Test" in March 2002, and it held up quite well. Unfortuately, the article is not online, and I don't have that issue here right now. -S

SourceForge project

[bill_mcgonigle]

Geez, I hate to reply to myself....

There is a project at SourceForge gathering the pieces necessary to make this work.

sigh... old news

[OcabJ]

get macdrive or macopener and download a copy of ephpod.

i've been ipoding in windows for months now.

(yes, i have an ibook, but itunes is horrible for managing large collections like mine. ephpod automatically translates my winamp m3u playlists.

You forgot one:

[2nd Post!]

c) has a particularly inefficient and inflexible filesystem

That's right, you can move files around on a Mac because most file references are to the file and not it's path!

One of the benefits of metadata; the file name, the file path, and all the file attributes are aspects of a file that can change without affecting the file itself. Very useful and worth more than just a piracy tool.

Re:c'mon, give in...

[Anonymous Coward]

What pisses me off is that, even though I unchecked the "Apple" slashbox, because I fucking hate Apple and don't want to read any lame-ass stories about Apple, I still get Apple stories often enough for it to be annoying.

Ipod Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, I've been waiting to hear something to this effect before even *considering* buying an iPod. Well, now that I'm considering I'm wondering if anybody knows...

Does the iPod have any problems playing mp3s recorded at bitrates other than 128? Specifically 256, and 192. Much thanks if anyone knows the answer

400$ shipped

[Anonymous Coward]

my 5 Gig iPod rang up 370$ from amazon, plus a 30$ D-Link Firewire Card (also from amazon) = 400$ shipped

Re:You'd be better off getting a iPaq with 5GB PCM

[smart.id]

The iPaq battery definitely does not last as long as the one the iPod has, considering the iPod was made specifically for music. Also, the iPod's interface is probably 10x better then any MP3 player out for the iPaq. If someone is looking to just carry music around with them, then I would suggest the iPod over the iPaq. And also, the iPaq (last time I checked) connected to the PC using USB! (1.1, no less), so you're downloading the files to the iPaq 30 times slower than you would with the iPod.

In other words, you're wrong.

Re:FireWire (USB 2.0 on archos 20 recorder!!!)

[sporty]

Unless the Archos does something that much better than iPod and has better marketing, iPod might have market share on mp3 players. If that is true, iPod support goes up, so does support and development. And the ball starts to roll..

Not to say that there won't be a killer product released by someone else. I'm just stating what I perceive to be the current state of affairs. :)

Getting slashdotted...

[Anonymous Coward]

Appearently, all you have to do to get slashdotted is make a Windows iPod client. So far, three such clients have been /.'d.. and I really don't care anymore!

Wait a few months...

[Fross]

although there's always something coming a few months away ;)

the PJB300 (next generation of the PJB100, the first ever harddrive-based mp3 player) should be out during 3rd quarter of this year. its featurelist is unreleased, but the first one has:

40G harddrive (60G soon!)
smaller than nomad jukebox
12 hour battery life
open source SDK (and good linux support)

and that came out 2.5 years ago!

so there's a fair amount of clamouring over what the new one will do. suffice to say it should (and will have to) kick the ipod's ass.

fross

Re:Wait a few months...

[NeMon'ess]

Do you have a link? Google turns up nothing and I didn't see anything on the company website. Maybe I missed it.

Re:Wait a few months...

[crawling_chaos]

smaller than nomad jukebox

Whee... That's like introducing a new laptop and saying it will be lighter than ENIAC. The Nomad is fscking huge.

$299

[hotsauce]

It's $299 in the clearance section of their online store. If you're an Apple customer, you've got their $25 Macworld's-coming coupon, so it's $274.

Not too shabby for what's widely regarded as the best mp3 player.

Portable units have difficulty with Ogg.

[Fross]

mp3 codecs are written/available with integer-based decoding, whereas ogg requires floating point operation.

hence portable mp3 players, with the eye on cost and efficiency, usually only have integer-based chippery for decoding. (excuse the vague terms, running out of my technical arena here...) and hence can't run Ogg.

i know there are "wrapper layers" to allow floating point operation on integer-based platforms, but these have not caught on, maybe they require even more horsepower that these chips can't supply? again, there's no reason for them to use more powerful chips than needed to support mp3...

personally i'd love to see ogg support, i think it's a great codec. but to the rest of those in this thread saying "mp3 sucks, ogg rocks!" - it's all subjective. high bitrate mp3s (256-320kbps) sound as good as the source. no question. ogg probably does at lower bitrates (192?). but they can both perform to as high quality as the human ear needs, it's just a matter of efficiency.

Fross

Re:Portable units have difficulty with Ogg.

[Sloppy]

mp3 codecs are written/available with integer-based decoding, whereas ogg requires floating point operation.

Sharp Zaurus running the Kompany's player, can play Vorbis w/out fp.

Integer implementation is available. The only thing slowing down Vorbis from catching on now, is that the player makers don't see sufficient demand, I guess. The solution to that is to not buy any player that doesn't play Vorbis. So I won't. I'll just keep using my CDDA-only player from the mid-90s until someone gets it right.

It will eventually work, I hope. (And if I could think of any use for a PDA other than playing music, I'd buy a Zaurus.)

its good but...

[wallsaroundme]

you can't backup mp3s to your hard drive, a BIG downside. Personally i prefer ephpod, it seems to offer much more control.

Uh, no, that's not right

[fm6]

The iPod is just a portable hard drive. The difficulty was getting Windows to be able to read the HFS+ filesystem, and the only thing that had to be reverse engineered was the iTunes File format.

M4 solved the HFS issue long ago. That's what their existing product does. And cloning iTunes can't be that hard. When the Beta version of XPlay was still on their web site, the release notes said that the basic product was done, but they were still working on making it work with a lot of non-compliant 1394 hardware. Presumably a non-free 1.0 product means they beat that problem.

If it helps Apple sell more iPods without having to pay for support, Apple wins.

Hmm, that assumes they actually make a profit on iPods. Dunno whether they do. Probably, since they haven't given M4 a hard time, except for the trademark issue.

Childish of me, but I have to revive a discussion that occurred back when the iPod was released. I posted here wondering why Apple insisted on depriving the iPod of 90% of the potential market by using a proprietary file system. Got a lot of flames in response, the gist of was, "Because, stupid, the purpose of iPods is to sell Macs. You don't think they can sell that thing for $400 and make a profit do you?!!!"

Re:Uh, no, that's not right

[drumgeek]

While perhaps their intention was it would sell more Macs, Apple can, and does sell the 5GB iPod at 400 bucks and make a hefty profit. Look at a possible iPod competitor, the Toshiba GigaBeat. It uses the same 1.8" hard drive the iPod does, yet its removable and uses a PC card interface(read: more expensive), and they are marketing it for 400 dollars as well. Apples integrated solution, using their own software and hardware technologies, has to be much cheaper to produce. Although perhaps it was Apple's intention to sell more Macs with iPod technology, they KNOW its a good thing that 94% of the computer world is now able to use the iPod, which will bring in massive revenue to use to produce even more cool hardware (which will then, of course, be hacked to work with Windows).

Re:Uh, no, that's not right

[dhovis]

Apple makes tons on the iPod. Not that long ago, the Apple Store was charging $99 for the VST Firefly 5GB firewire drive which has the same HD mechanism as the iPod. I'm pretty sure that it does not cost Apple more than $300 for the controller chips and the display. Remember, the iPod has been on the market for ~8 months now. They've paid off the R&D costs by now, and the components have only gotten cheaper, particularly the 1.8" Toshiba mechanism.

Now, when the iPod first came out, I belive that Apple was selling them with a low markup, but today they are probably making as much margin as they do on an iBook, and possibly more. The reason they are still so expensive is that the iPod still has no reasonable competition.

You are right about the Windows problem, though. It did have more to do with crappy 1394 hardware on many Intel platforms than with the filesystem access, but that is another reason that Apple would not want to get involved in writing a Windows driver, it would be just as difficult, and Apple would not get as much slack as M4 will.

Re:Uh, no, that's not right

[fm6]

I guess my cute little comment wasn't very clear. I was just getting back at the bozos who flamed me because it was "obvious" that Apple was selling the iPod at loss. Anway, you're right, the requisite hard disk is very cheap. In fact, I've been looking at various SmartDisk products based on the FireFly. $150 for a 10 GB drive that speaks USB and Firewire. Just the thing for sharing files between my Dell work machine and my Vaio laptop.

You're also right about the lack of competition. Two products come close: the Kanguru kit (which has power consumption issues, or so I'm told), and the Creative Jukebox 3, which would actually be the better product (more disk space, more audio features, an obscene number of inputs and outputs) if it weren't so damned big.

I'm really puzzled. With such a hot product category, and nice off-the-shelf hardware to build it with, why isn't everybody jumping on this bandwagon?

No you can't... this is Windows!

[avarame]

... in which EVERY program requires an installer to scatter bits of it across far-flung parts of your HD, tweak a million registry keys, and optionally install one or more spyware/adware packages.

Now, on Mac OS X on the other hand, it's a simple matter to copy a program - well-behaved programs keep all their data inside the app bundle itself, meaning you have to copy exactly one file to your iPod.

And remember, Windows folks - you may have an iPod, but you still don't have iMovie or iDVD! (iPhoto is really a bastard child of all the quickie photo-album makers of the world, with a few whizzy features tossed in)

less expensive to OWN

[Anonymous Coward]

wh4+ 4r3 j00 +41k1ng 4b0u+? W1nd0wz PC'z 4r3 rea1 34zy +0 0wN.

:-)

No time for VCR.

[fm6]

Not. Most of the time my VCR can't acquire a signal at all. When it does, half the time it's from a cable station the wrong time zone, so the clock gets set one or two hours off. I set the damn thing by hand.

This should lure a lot of

[Anonymous Coward]

PC hardware manufacturers to get off their arses and stick a HD in a box with a USB or Firewire port on the side for less than the cost of a desktop pc.

WINDOWS!

[Anonymous Coward]

What has this got to do with slashdot? this post is about Windows - this is of no consequence to open source users!

Archos JukeBox sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought the 20gig archos, and the drive was bad...it always flubbed the file transfers from my linux box and often froze the usb bus. i got a new one and the file system integrity was horrible.

Presumably for X Windows

[JimR]

XPlay eh? Following the well know naming of programs for the X Window System since X10 was around.

But seriously, people in the computer industry who should know better seem to be appropriating names that imply their products have a pedigree that they haven't.

Witness Microsoft's appropriation of "X" after having tried to appropriate the generic "Windows" they now have ActiveX, DirectX, Xbox - truly an homage to the hugely successful X Window System.

And Apple are no better, they called their latest operating system X. And have now launched a server version called "Xserve" (frighteningly close to "Xserver") and a version of the iMac called "emac" - what's next "Linu"? "Mozill"? "Apach"? "gre"?

Re:Presumably for X Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I cetainly don't intend to defend MS or Mediafour for their use or misuse of names. However, you must be kidding about Apple's use of OS X and eMac.
X is used to mean 10 derived from the Roman numeral for 10, X. Jobs and the developers at Apple don't even call it OS "ex" but OS "ten."
And the e in eMac is because it was originally released only for the education market.
Xserve takes its name for the OS it runs.

I realize the imporance of naming things, but I think you're looking way too deeply at this, and missing the glaringly obvious reasoning behind the names.

hey you idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

The latest MacOpener itself already supports the ipod you stupid heads!

#1 Solution for Using Mac Media in Windows
Open Mac disks just like they were PC disks. Perfect for sharing "cross-platform" files including business, publishing, audio, video and Web files. Just double-click on the Mac file(s) to open the appropriate Windows program. MacOpener supports floppies, Zip, Jaz, SyQuest, CD-ROMs and more -- even Apple's new 5GB or 10GB iPod.

Some people are just dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Computing Industry Language 101

Killer App: noun, The application or usage of a computing platform which delivers such great leaps in the user's value proposition that it becomes a driving sales point for the platform which hosts it. e.g. The browser was the Internet's killer app - everyone wanted to get Internet access in order to use browsers to surf for information (okay, porn).

Umm, yeah, makes QUITE a difference, don't you think?

Some WinPoding Links

[mclaugh]

WinPoding forum at Ipoding.com

Apple Ipod Forums

Ipodhacks

IpodLounge forumss at IpodLounge.com

Everything Ipod-accessories

I love my iPod, but...

[dubstop]

I think that my iPod (5gig model) is great, but for the price, it has its issues.

Firstly, it's the third that I've had: the first one died after twenty minutes of use, and the second one never worked at all because the disk was broken. So, two exchanges later, I finally ended up with an iPod that worked. This current one is used pretty intensively every day for playing music, and no problems yet after several months.

Secondly, it tends to get very hot when used intensively as a disk. For example, following a late night coding session, I made a stupid mistake with a makefile and as a result of total stupidity, I ended up deleting my home directory. I still can't believe I did it - stupid, stupid, stupid. Anyway, after a few tears, I decided that I wasn't going to rip 4gig of CDs again, and that instead I'd cp -r the mp3s off the iPod. Trying to do it all at once, the cp process balked after approx 3gig and soaked up all of the available memory, and the iPod became too hot to hold. Luckily the iPod wasn't permanently damaged, but I was worried at the time. That incident was the only time my 768meg iMac has ever (that I'm aware of) had to do a page-out because no RAM was available.

Summary: The iPod is great, but it's definitely not bomb-proof.

Why not just buy something other than an iPod?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPod's are expensive compared to other alternatives. If you add the cost of this
software... Therefore, just avoid an iPod
altogether.

Remember, if you bought it from Apple, you probably paid too much (substitute Sun for
Apple and still applies).

Apple could care less.

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPod is part of the *real* digital hub, not that crap that Dell sells which is based on Windows.

The iPod is a low margin item for Apple, regardless of any ideas you have about costs. There is no other MP3 player that approaches it in quality and design features.

The iPod is designed and intended to sell Macs. If a few Windows users want to use this software and get an iPod then they may get smart enough to realize there is a good deal of "value added" things that go with a Mac, software like iPod, iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes and the really cool implemntation of the free 20MB iDisk, not just another "free storage" item, but one which integrates with all the other applications for quick and easily display of photos, showing Quick Time Movies, etc. etc.

The Windoze users who get an iPod but not a Mac just don't get it. Their eyes are closed, their prejudices well established. And why they'd want an iPod and not a Mac, running OSX with BSD just waiting on the command line, a ton of good software, etc. etc. I have no idea.

Weird.

What about iPod Firmware?

[Slur]

I assume none of the Windows-based solutions have any means to update the firmware of the iPod itself, which is too bad. But maybe these folks can go the their local Apple Store and ask one of the Geniuses(TM) to take care of it...?

Real Geeks hack their hardware too! Don't buy Ipod

[zero0116]

Why would anyone thinking of themselves as a true computer geek/whizard/hacker/ whatever even consider buying a lame overpriced closed technology device? It's just plain unkewl! You're supporting an evil corporation! There a hard-drive based mp3 players out there that you can open without loosing the warranty! Try doing that to Ipad! There's a project at http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/ to write an open source OS for the Archos mp3 player. And my favourite neo 25 is currently available for 50$- if you know where to find it :) Jam a 20gig laptop hard drive in there, and you're ready to go for a loong time. Use it as a portable hard drive, too.USB connected and not needing a driver. Works with *nix. Other OS are supported too. Or consider making an mp3 player of your own - there are kits out there.

Comparison page for iPod and similar

[Anonymous Coward]

....all you need to know....

Typical...

[Mulletproof]

Beautiful design, HORRIBLY engineered.

Full Retail vs. Street

[Mulletproof]

Come on. Does anyone actually think the Gigabeat is only going to be $8-$50 (depending on whom you believe) cheaper for less hardware? lets get real. That would be the most assnine marketing mistake in the world and most companies don't get to Toshiba's size with those kind of mistakes. Granted, there's always a first... But until somebody can quote me a real "I have it in stock right now" price, PLEASE give it a rest. I know everybody here has name brand loyalties, but jeez...

Re:Full Retail vs. Street

[2nd Post!]

Um, you mean like people in Japan?

Anyway, we're comparing the iPod MSRP with the Gigabeat MSRP. You can find the iPod for up to $20 or $30 cheaper, or even $100 when bundled, but the point is that Toshiba is selling (www.shoptoshiba.com) the 2gb disk for $299 and the 5gb disk for $399 right now, which in now way makes the Gigabeat price competitive with an iPod of the same size.

Pat from TheScreenSavers likes it

[incripshin]

Patrick showed off XPlay on TheScreenSavers. He hates Macintosh, but when XPlay came out, he could finally get the coveted iPod. He seemed to like it. It works just fine, too, so you shouldn't have any problems.

Mark

Re:Real Geeks hack their hardware too! Don't buy I

[Anonymous Coward]

real hardware hacks don't *need* no stinking warranty to hide behind, foo'

Trolling 101: Building the Perfect Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

A while back Don Henley created an album called Building the Perfect Beast His first solo album it surprised many with tracks like Sunset Grill All She Wants To Do Is Dance my favorite Driving With Your Eyes Closed and Jon Katzs favorite Boys of Summer I was listening to this album on illegallyripped MP3s while reading the Slashdot trolls and started brainstorming what would make the perfect troll This article serves as a directed introduction to building the perfect trollFirst we need to define trolling This is harder than it sounds because everyone has their own definition of a troll or better their own definition of a good troll I am going to use multiple definitions to create a very broad ideal of the term troll Any post that meets ONE of the definitions below is considered a trolla A message widely regarded as an annoyanceb A message which insults the editors with no regard to meritc A message which flames another user for their viewsd Any message which is designed to enrage the standard slashdot userFor the purposes of this post a good troll is one that spawns many angry responses There are other sides of trolling such as crapflooding which do not generate any responses usually These sorts of trolls are out of the scope of this articleThere are 6 dimensions of a good troll annoyance arguability subtlety topicality logicality and permeance By NO means should a good troll use only one dimension although some dimensions are inherently contradictory using as many as possible will result in a good trollAnnoyanceThis is the allstar of the troll spectrum Racial comments page wideninglengthing misinformation deragatory comments etc all are considered an annoyance But be careful The common pitfall is the annoyance is used to frequently and too loudly Subtlety is a necessity if you are going to use this with any sort of success read more about this below Here are some examples of good and bad annoyancesBad You stupid fucking nigger Im going to kick your faggot ass if I ever see you you shitface cocksucking animal This will be modded down immediately and will probably not be responded to This message will largely be ignored thus limiting the troll affectPosting factual inaccuracies is great when combined with annoyance the Slashdots will fall over themselves correcting your every moveGood Its posts like these that question the education system of America If you were paying any attention at school you would know that the South won the Civil War because of their views no slavery It was Abraham Lincolns last stand at Gettysburg that caused Slavery to go awayMaking references to your education as proof that you are right is excellent especially when in your troll you make it obvious that you dont have anyBad I studied this topic in great depth when writing my PhD thesis at MIT As it turns out the limiting factor of sorting function with completely randomized data Good Oh I took a class about this at the DeVry Institute According to the reseptionist notice intentionally bad spelling the integral of ex2 is ex so its got to be rightArguabilityPosts such as You fucking faggot Im going to kill you has no element of arguability You want to post a view in an inflammatory way that will incite a great argument There is a right way and a wrong way to doing this Usually if you are outright cursing at the poster or editor its the wrong wayExamplesBad You worthless piece of horseshit Your views are wrong jackassGood This study post link to mostly irrelevant and offtopic study indicates there is a strong correlation between deviance and Linux usersDrawing illogical conclusions based on incorrect statements is a great way to instate a nerd riot ExampleGood When ESR said that Windows is losing clientelle he used intentionally bad grammar which is inherent proof that his ideals are flawedPermeanceQuestion If a troll posts a troll and no one reads it is it still a troll Answer NoA troll can only have so much longevity I call this principle permeance Permeance is judged by the number of people who will see and read a post and to a lesser extent respond to it Good formatting grammar and spelling all contribute to a posts permeance but the real factor is contentMost of you spend a lot of time reading at 1 presumably so you will know that a fair amount of racist and antisemetic comments are posted Most Slashdot users will not see these because they are at 1 klercks PLP and PWP are ultimately a failure because few see themTo maximize permeance you have to 1 Sound like you now what you are talking about 2 Sound like you have a stake in your point of view maening you care about what you think and 3 Express it without homophobia any sort of racism and discrimination You will see that trolls at 1 and even 2 use this principle You will see that trolls at 0 and 1 do not use this principle This brings us toFirst Fundamental Theorem of Trolling Anonymous Cowards by definition rarely succeed in posting a good trollSecond Fundamental Theorem of Trolling If an AC succeeds in a good troll it would even be better if it were posted at 1 or 2 by default SubtletyCertain posts SCREAM This is a troll Please ignore it These are not successful trolls As a troll your every urge is to scream YOU FUCKING FAGGOT HOW CAN YOU THINK THE WAY YOU DO to the Slashbot homos Resist this at every cost You need to diplomatically insult them Its hard I know but it will result in success GOOD PHRASESYou should know by now that Havent you learned anything from eventWhat a stereotypical viewWas this post sarcasticI cant believe the level of ignorance of that point of viewTopicalityThis is a nobrainer and therefore Im not going to spend much time discussing it Why do you think BSD is Dying trolls rarely get responses when they are posted under one of Jon Katzs articlesLogicalityDid I make that word up Probably But its principle is still important use every logical fallacy that you know of when writing trolls Jump to illogical conclusions Misquote or misrepresent parents posts when responding Make references to studies linking them to a 404 not found page You get the idea This one isnt hard to introduce but its wildly successful in getting Slashcock responsesThis is a brief introduction to the good trolling Soon I will post an article about combining dimensions and look at some good and bad trolls in the past

-pwpbot

iTools

[dalangalma]

I still don't get it... what's so great about the iTools... you have iMovie, which is just like Windows Movie Maker or Ulead Video Studio or any other movie creation app that gets bundled with video-capable hardware... you get iPhoto, which is nothing special, I'm not even sure what iDVD is, if it's just a DVD player I can't imagine why that's special, and then the much-lauded iTunes, which to me seems exactly like musicmatch jukebox, (which comes with everything) though I still prefer Winamp for all my audio needs... really, what's so "killer" about these apps? They seem pretty commonplace to me.

Re:iTools

[avarame]

I'll tackle this in order. I've heard iMovie is several times easier than a lot of other programs --- and it was one of the first consumer-targeted video editing apps. iPhoto, really isn't that special. =) I'll skip iDVD because it needs more explanation. iTunes really is basically another mp3 player, but its killer feature is, of course, the iPod and its tight integration. iDVD is an app that lets you create DVDs. You make the menu, add video clips (from iMovie if you wish, or pretty much any format QuickTime can read), still pictures, audio, etc, and then burn the DVD (with the SuperDrive CD-RW/DVD-R drive on the top model iMac and top two G4 towers). Then you can use the DVD in any consumer DVD player. It's pretty damn killer.

Don't Buy An iMac or an iPod!?!??!

[TheMicrosoftH8r]

Whoever on earth said that Macs suck is like totally messed up. Macs are easier to use, Windoze-based machines are like being in hell I'm only a geek with more than a decade of experience with computers but I can tell you this: Microsoft has ruined my life. I grew up using Macs and when I got my first Windwoes computer, I was devastated. What happened to the ease of use, the wonderful GUI? Anyway, get an iPod right now. You'll never regret it, no matter what. In fact, get an iMac or a G4! You'll realize that they are much better. XPlay and the iPod with a Windoze computer is not the way to go-unless you absolutely want to do that.