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U.S. National Do-Not-Call Registry is Law
extra88 writes "Bush has signed the
Do-Not-Call Registry into law. The registry will be run by the FTC and funded by fees collected from telemarketers. Telemarketers can be fined up to $11K for calling someone on the list. Politicians, surveys (loophole?) and charities are exempt from using the list. The FCC oversees certain industries (airlines, banks and phone companies) and will have to "buy in" to the registry for it to affect those industries. Slashdot covered this story when the bill went through House of Representatives."
Finally! Suck it, telemarketers.
HUG!!!!!
(In all seriousness, this is great. Not only a telemarketing block list, but they're making them pay for it!)
...
Where do I sign up?
It may be opt-out instead of opt-in, but it's still better than a kick to the crotch...unless you happen to be into that sort of thing.
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
Any chance that to inform the masses about this they will do a mass calling at 6:30pm (dinner time) ? ;)
We'd like you to take a survey...
1) What do you think about our new offer we're sending to people?
2) Would our recent pricing changes convince you to switch to our company?
3) PROFIT!
-=sig=-
Surveys are indeed a loophole here. Since Indiana's do-not-call list went into effect (which is a MAJOR success), I have gotten some thinly veiled "research survey" calls, which offer a free sample of a product as the compensation for participating. They're pretty few and far between, though.
I still can't believe that a legislature actually passed a reasonably effective and useful law, despite the opposition of lobbying groups!
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
My first thought was that this list could cut down my telemarketing calls received by about 90%. But what is that you say? It may not apply to phone companies? Well, I suppose cutting my telemarketing calls received by 5% is still some sort of progress.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
Now if We can just get a "Do Not Spam" List to go with the "Do Not Call" list.
First Post?
People Talking in Movie shows.. people smoking in bed.. people voting republican.. GIVE THEM A BOOT TO THE HEAD!
I read the article . . . how do I sign up? ("Available this summer" means what exactly???)
hi, I like pancakes -.-- -.-- --..
he's covered in blood and oil.
Visit the new Troll site!
* ring ring *
Hello?
Hallo, dees iz Al Quaeda fund raising group, please geef uz moe-nee.
I'm on the National Do Not Call list!
Ah.. forgiff my mistake, American Infidel. I shall call next perzon on list. Haff a nice day.
No problem, g'day.
Trolling is a art,
I would personally like such a thing considering my volume of spam, but aside from anyone who lives by spamming, does anyone find issues with the extended concept?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"Hi, this is AnnoyingCo, we want you to pad, for absolutely no compensation, our database that we'll be selling to someone else so they can annoy you too."
"My answer to all your questions will be 'Go fuck yourself raw, bitch'. Still want to ask? Have at it."
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
I just signed up to the UK version, www.tpsonline.org.uk. It takes a month to work its way into the system, then I'm promised a big reduction in unsolicited phone calls, currently running at around 2-3 a day. As I have to work from home some weeks, so this will be a great relief. I'm glad you guys have it too.
Macka
Phase 1:All telemarketers stop for n months.
Phase 2: No fines = no funds to enforce law.
Phase 3: Resume telemarketing
Phase 4: Profit!
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
very cool... the "Survey" thing will probably be exploited as a loophole, let's hope that the actual copy of the law is strong enough to prevent that.
Why are surveys and charities exempt? They're no less annoying, and have no right to call you out of the blue either.
bkr
So, if someone calls from within the US, you can haul them to court where there's an $11K fine... but what if the call originates in... say... Tijuana? Ottowa? Bombay?
I get the feeling that, in order to survive, junk phone callers will resort to some dirty tricks.
...where are all of the loopholes that you just know are in there. maybe i'm a bit cynical by nature, but there has to be at least one big enough to drive a truck through. i know about the survey thing and the non-profit, but where's the real built-in escape for that $11k fine?
hmmm...
Hello Sir/Madam, while on your way to vote for Diamond Joe Quimby and donate to Guns for Tots, pick up some of our effective, 100% legal herbal Viagra substitute.
Holy shit, GW actually did something right. I mean, I know it's not that hard picking up a pen and putting your signature where your political advisors tell you to. Still, this law rocks. I love it. If I could, I would marry it. I am so on that list A.S.A.P.
You know what? It's all their faults anyway. If they hadn't been so aggresive and so intrusive (I used to get around 15 calls from 6pm to 9pm ... right smack dab in the middle of dinner), they wouldn't have pissed off an entire nation of people and legislation like this wouldn't be required.
But they were, so it is needed.
Hm. I guess that thought applies to SPAM as well.
My comment to telemarketers: Here's a dime, go call someone who gives a damn (but make sure you check The Registry first!). As my mother used to say: you made the bed, now f**king sleep in it.
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
int i, j, k;
for (i = 100; i <= 999; i++)
for (j = 100; i <= 999; j++)
for (k = 0; k <= 9999; k++)
printf("(%03d) %03d-%04d\n", i, j, k);
}
How long before we can get a Do-Not-Email Registry....
Yeah like that is going to happen.
You are receiving this email because you have chosen to be placed in the National Do Not Call Registry. Your choice prevented you from receiving information on our valuable spa/webcam/vacation property offers.
To remove yourself from this list, please click here
public void karmaWhore(String url){addSlashdotComment(fetchContent(url));}
How the hell would I prove that a telemarketer called me? Is it my word against their word? Do I obtain phone records? Does the government obtain phone records? Now granted, my cell phone does a pretty good job of breaking calls down to incoming and outgoing, but I don't recall if it tells you the phone number of the incoming call on the bill Seems like yet another political feel good move that the government has no way of enforcing. Hey if it works and the iron the kinks out, then sign me up! Hell lets figure out how to do the same thing as spammers, since I think that cause more pain and cost more money.
Money not found! A)bort, R)etry, D)eclare Bankruptcy
Umm. that's the bulk of my telemarketing calls.
I think I'll opt-out of the opt-out for now.
The Supremes will have no problem with this, as it is NOT free speech. Freedom of speech means you can say anything you want (within reason) it does NOT mean that if I don't want to listen to it you have to force it upon me by calling me at the most inconvient time of the day while I'm eating my dinner with my family, which for the record is about the only time most of us SEE our families (if then), it's more these companies butting into the few moments we have to be a family together and they are stealing THAT from us.
It's not freedom of speech when you force it down my throat when I don't want to hear it.
I'm running for congress... would you be interested in switching to AT&T?????????
So how do they handle all those TPS reports, then?
when WHEN WHEN will this be put into action?
How would you enforce it? I assume that most of my unsolicited telephone calls come from within the US, and are therefore subject to US laws.
The callers could move outside the US, but the cost of making the phone calls would increase dramatically.
However, it's easy for spammers to move outside the US to avoid an unfavorable law, and doesn't really change their costs much.
In case you hadn't seen this one before:
Rosen switches...
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
We've had this in Kentucky for nearly a year now and occasionally I get a call from telemarketers but when you speak they hang up as if the computer searched the list after it dialed my number and got a response from me. So its still somewhat annoying if they have outdated equiptment.
Soooooo.... How do I sign up, and when?
Who use this phone devices today? I almost never received calls from telemarketers. But my yahoo acounts are flooded by spam. I leave my yahoo addresses in all suspecius forms. In fact - in all forms. Of course I keep my home email addresses as private as possible. And many people do the same. It is not convinient. And it's not what we, email users, expected originally from the email system. So what about email antispam laws? Many people and especially corporations would be happy to register their email accounts in the "do-not-call" list, and they are ready to pay for it to protect their privacy.
Less is more !
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
My current solution is to use an auto-attendant wherein a caller needs to press my extension number to ring me. Now, their machine talks to my machine, and I never even hear a phone ring.
But I'd still like to cause them some pain.
One good thing the administration has done!
-makoffee
Yesterday I got a call on my cell phone from my credit card company, hawking a balance transfer. I'm tempted to send them a bill for the air time.
Oddly enough, it was from my Linux Fund credit card.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Hold your glee. In short order, a telemarketing company will launch a court case, and the rule will be put aside for a decade or so while it works its way up to the Supreme Court. Oh, well, maybe our kids will benefit.
Now why can't we do this with spam? It looks like this was exactly what Lawrence Lessig wants.
And before anyone says "BUT THAT WILL JUST MAKE THE SPAMMERS MOVE OUTSIDE OF THE U.S.!": With something like spam, *isolating* the problem is a big step toward fixing it, especially when you realize two things: first off, the biggest method currently of combatting spam is blackhole lists. If you remove the need to blackhole-list america because you can just sue spammers within america, that's a big chunk of the world's SMTP and a much easier time targetting those blackhole lists. Second off, most of the business for spam will be within the U.S.. Assuming that the law also allows u.S. businesses who hire spammers who go around the do-not-call registry to be sued as if they'd spammed themselves, that's a bunch of the spammers' money.
Third off, the biggest problem with spam is so much of it is forged, thus making the spammers hard to track and hard to blackhole. However, moving the spammers outside the U.S. means that all spam in the U.S. will be have to enter through the entry points into the U.S.. This makes filtering easier, not to mention that if the clients of the spammers can be sued just like spammers, it doesn't matter how well the spammers have hidden themselves.
Currently for some reason I keep getting faxes too. Its very annoying to hear those beeps when you pick up the phone. Can I get them to stop too using this?
Do-not-email would be useless against international spam. Also email addresses are too ephemeral. Such a database could eventually have terabytes of unused data. Not to mention searches against such a large database would be computationally, and thus monetarily, costly.
Any good reasons why politicians are exempt? I don't want unsolicited calls from anybody. Period.
All your favorite sites in one place!
"Telemarketers say the registry will devastate their business. "
God I hope so.
I hope they start allowing sign-ups soon.
You start by enforcong it at the retail level - someone in the USofA has to be taking orders for, shipping, and profiting! (step 3?) from those pills that make my unit bigger. Those are the ones you nail - if they stop hiring the spam companies to 'promote' them, then the volume might drop significantly.
Of course this would not work for spam advertising an offshore website or service, but hey - it's a start...
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
Just groan a little into the phone and then scream "Oh yes ! More ! YES ! More, FASTER ! YEEEEEESSS !"
Not a single company called me twice.
So,just one thing bush give to american people.Im from Brazil, but i read in much sites of there(http://www.cnn.com).Your approvation is very Small.Sorry but i wanna include an off-topic:What you think about of Bushs Government???best regards. Blueice88
Maybe Bush is actually a hardcore anti-spammer? Creating a national Do Not Call list is step one. But now, moving on to email spam... how to do it? Most of it comes from overseas. Maybe the reason Bush is trying to run the world is so that the anti-spam list would be able to be enforced?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
I still can't believe that a legislature actually passed a reasonably effective and useful law, despite the opposition of lobbying groups!
I can't believe that ANY body of lawmakers actually thought this up! I mean coming from the same people that passed the DMCA, this is frikkin amazing!
On Another note, i am reminded of the current law(s) about being able to sue the company for calling after being placed in thier company's "Do-Not-Call list", but its hard to tell them to put you on that list if its a RECORDING that is talking on the other side. I have been plauged by Disney's recorded message several times in the past month & have yelled into the phone "PUT ME ON YOUR DO-NOT-CALL LIST" to no avail. Of course it could be that i just like screaming over the phone at recordings or sumthin.
Ahh well, back to my chikin hunting.
- You're not paranoid, they really are after you.
The only problem with this issue is that you'd have to make sure that it's just as illegal to hire an out-of-country spammer to circumvent the Do-Not-Email list as it is to send that spam yourself.
Also, i'd like to suggest that if such a law becomes implemented, the border routers for the U.S. watch all incoming SMTP traffic, and if something labelled as coming from a clearly U.S.-only domain (like, say, some small ISP from pennslyvania) is coming from outside the U.S., it gets an extra entered-us-at:ip header slapped on it. I'm not sure if such filtering would be feasible.
I used to work in a market research firm based in the US. However, we had a significant portion of our operations in Canada, specifically, our call centre. I know that alot of companies do this in order to take advantage of cheap wages available in Canada.
I wonder if this law takes into account companies operating out of different countries, or if this would be a way for telemarking companies to find a way around this. Since some of these companies are unscrupulous by nature, this might be a viable option to some.
Any insights?
can be found here http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/donotcall/in dex.html.
[/end whore]
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
"Telemarketers say the registry will devastate their business."
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If anything, a do not call list would help them reduce the costs by eliminating unnecessary phone calls. The people who sign up for this list are those who are least likely to purchase anything through a telemarketer. Now that they have a list of numbers not likely to buy anything, they can skip over that and save the cost of a phone call.
If the phone companies aren't included by default, then what's the point? 99% of telemarketing calls I get are from them!
There is no gravity...the earth just sucks.
How will I ever convince them that *@mydomain.net is a valid e-mail address!
The ______ Agenda
$$$Sexygirl, he seems to enjoy that.
My iptables blackhole list is about twenty lines long and has reduced my spam to less than one a week. Its amazing that all the spam comes from the same networks (whois -h whois.arin.net [ipnumber]) A few /7, /8, several /16, and the rest /24...
I suppose that there are some companies out there who will attempt to circumvent the law that way, but this allows "reputable" survey companies to conduct business fairly normally. We don't do telemarketing - you couldn't pay us or our competitors enough to do that. See, if you're a member of CASRO you'll actually lose your membership if you attempt to "SUG" (Sell Under the Guise of research), and that's a pretty big deal. You'd lose lots of clients if they found out you lost your CASRO membership - they enforce standards in the industry.
I guess the red flag that should go up is, if you're on the list, and someone tries to sell you something, it's a bad thing. If the caller identifies themselves as a research company and only asks questions about your purchasing habits, experiences with a product, they're probably ok. We generally identify ourselves as a national/worldwide research firm in the first couple of sentences of the call.
FirstUSA credit cards in conjunction with United Airlines won't stop calling me. At least I'm starting to have some fun with it. Whenever they call, I practice my Screaming Sam Kinnison impersonation.
Me: You assholes are out of business aren't you?
Them: Well, we're restructuring.
Me: That's cuz your fucking plane flew into the WTC, right?
Them: The Septem...
Me: Oh Oooooh! Shut the fuck up. You pricks are responsible! Oh Oooooh! You did nothing to prevent those fucking sand niggers from taking control. Then you get the government to give you my money. Now, you harass me at to save your sorry ass. Oh Oooooh! Why don't you just come to my house so I can show you what I really think? Oh Oooooh! You suuuuuck.
And I allowed to call that number?
I do work for a company that does market-research. Read the law - there are reasonably strict restrictions on what counts as charities, surveys, etc. I may be in the minority but I have done focus groups and do reply to some surveys if I'm not otherwise occupied (well, I used to - working for a research company disqualifies me for most of the now). I hardly think that sending a FREE product, gift certificate, etc. as a thank-you makes a survey somehow evil. (I should note, we hardly do any call-out work and on the rare occasions we do we adhere strictly to the allowed hours and other restrictions.)
Now, you want to see a loophole - how about the exemption for anyone with whom you have a "business relationship". Bought a widget from me in the last 18 months - I'm exempt. I called you for product info in the last three months - you can feel free to start calling me whether I'm listed or not. Fortunately even in those cases (and I think with charities as well) you can tell that specific business/charity to stop calling and they must honor it.
Better still, they must start transmitting caller ID info - no more "ID unavailable" and must have a person on the line within 2 seconds of your answer (the telemarketers hate this since they can't cram in as many calls per person per hour with their predictive dialers).
The other giant loophole is that there are a variety of exemptions for financial institutions, airlines and telecom companies but it appears from the FTC web site that this could be just procedural in that they are already regulated by other agencies and it just needs some interagency coordination to bring those into the fold as well. Still, those exemptions bear watching. Perhaps someone more familiar than I am with the laws would care to comment.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
The provisions for surveys are meant to prevent the government from fighting itself. The government, at various levels, spends billions of dollars per year funding survey research. My employer (the University of Wisconsin) recieves millions each year from the state alone.
If you feel a survey is not of academic nature then the call is illegitimate (per Wisconsin law) and the caller can still be punished. Since Wisconsin's do-not-call list went into effect at the beginning of this year we have recieved phone calls from various areas of the government ensuring our credibility.
A "Do Not /." List for websites.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Second comment, first to say anything about GWB....oh yeah, it's because it says something positive about GWB.
NO BLOOD FOR OIL! NO BLOOD FOR OIL! NO BLOOD FOR OIL! NO BLOOD FOR OIL!
And you hippies are always whining about supposedly being censored.
Does anyone know if this will also cover fax numbers? If so, where do I sign up? At the rate I get junk faxes, I'll be able to quit my day job and survive on the proceeds.
1) Quit day job
2) Collect junk faxes
3) ????
4) Profit!
TODO: Insert witty sig
I've made the mistake of donating to some charities, and now I get hammered with the charity telemarketers. They're just as bad as the credit card and long distance people.
It's sad that charities have been reduced to this.
This law exempts charities, and will only apply to phone companies and banks if the FTC want it to... That means 90% of the telemarketers who call me are exempt. What's the use of that?
He loves telemarketers as much as ./ losers trying to get free porn. Here's a hint guys: The Hun!
Wonder if the same people in favor of this voluntary, opt-in do-not-call list are the same ones that decried the voluntary, opt-in net-usage monitor in the previous article. ;)
Nah, none of that kinda crowd in here, I'm sure.
The FTC has limited authority to police telemarketing calls from certain industries, including airlines, banks and telephone companies. The Federal Communications Commission, which oversees calls made by those industries, has been working with the FTC and is considering adding its clout to the program.
The FTC is CONSIDERING adding its clout?!?! Banks and telephone companies are the biggest telemarketers in the first place. If I get one more call about changing my phone company, credit card, or morgage (after I get on the list), I will [insert unlikely and irrational threat] the FTC!
Do me a favor and double it!
They have managed to take a well supported concept and turn it in to a double standard. This will almost turn out to be a usefull legislation. Glad to know how my tax dollars are getting wasted.
Banks and Airlines? Is this a mistake, or did I miss the FCC government takeover story this morning?
We all know telespammers have been yelling about this, and there are the known loopholes involving politicians, survey and charities. I already believe that they will use a loop hole involving how they define stuff like surveys, politicians, and charities (i.e. like spammers defining their spam as something that isn't spam).
What I want to know is the hidden ones that they put in there.
Will we be able to tell surveys, politicians, and charities to put us on their do not call list, or do we still have to be hurassed by calls like annoying surveys?
I did think that they might try calling out of the US, but I would think that the costs to do so wouldn't be worth it.
Here in Colorado, we implemented this about a year ago. It has helped. I no longer get calls saying to buy things. Instead, I get numerous calls from the republican and democratic party asking me to support their platform and send lots of money . They also tell me that the Libertarian party is a group of thugs who will allow the other party to get ahead (can't stand either as there is no difference).
Likewise, I get 2-5 calls a day from charity groups saying that we will be in your area looking for used articles. If I do not answer within 3 rings, they will hang up and try again in about 15 minutes.
Take your pick of which set of spam you want; businesses or charity/government.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You know how easy it is create a "for profit" charity? I've had the same guy call me once a night (for weeks) during dinner explaining that I give money to some kind of police/fire/IbrokeAnailAnonymous charity. He collects 99% of the money, and donates the rest (gee thanks!). The charity loophole is HUGE.
As nice as it is for a charity to call me begging for money, I'd much rather give the money on my own. Ofcourse...people don't go out of their own way nowadays to do just that.
Colossians 2:8
Help outst The Fascist-In-Chief
Cheers,
W00t
Time For A Regime Change
1. Become a politician ...
2. Make phone calls asking for "political contributions."
3.
4. Votes!
How about since they are not in the US they are not subject to US laws yada yada yada bit but either there product is shipped from the US or they ship it into the the US going through customs. Now just seize the assest of those companies in the US and comming into the US. This deprives them of the ablility to ship product. Now this does NOTHING to stop porn spam and other intangible bits but it's a start at least. Besides that way we can buy tones of pill to make our dicks bigger at a goverment auction for pennies on the dollar.
...But just wait until they all switch to spam!
What, haven't you ever heard of C or C++? Or are you one of those windows VB "programmers"?
You mean I'm actually going to have a chance of having an ENTIRE meal with my family without being interrupted by the phone ringing? We will have to readjust to communicating without interruptions.
Sanity is overrated...Being CRAZY is much more fun!!!
My fear is what else got attached to this bill... anything that looks good on the surface, is liable to have something icky on the back end.
Time to go find the bill and read it...
I'd love to know why they think they can't vote on an issue like this.
They just probably weren't at the Capitol to vote.
Politicians, surveys (loophole?) and charities are exempt from using the list.
I d=883948. I can't check as I dont have RealPlayer, but if you have it, check it out. You can also order a transcript.
I was listening to NPR months ago, and they went through the guidelines for what constitutes a "survey" and "charity" call. I got the impression they were very well defined.
Looking at the NPR site, I think this may be the article: http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wf
For all those asking when and were to sign up let me make it simple. It says Summer. It is administrated by the FTC.
So that means in July go to either firstgov.gov or ftc.gov and search for "do not call". Simple huh? Well stop whining... "when, where, oh boo hoo".
VB Rulez! C/C++ droolz!
I'm in CA, and ours is set to be in place by april 1st this year. Reading about it on their website, I ran into this:
The new program will allow Californians to place, for a small fee, their residential and cellular telephone numbers on a Do Not Call list.
Here's an idea, why don't you collect from fines like the Feds (there will be many), or better yet, charge vendors a "small fee" for access to the list. Say $10 a cd or for access to the website.
What about the military recruiters that used to call me about three times a week? Will they be exempt?
Allah righta, hava me muna.
And I'm sure there are other ways such an enormous compendium of phone numbers could be abused.
Not that I'm saying this law is a bad thing. I'm thrilled about it. But I'm just listening for the other shoe to fall.
They can simply set up shop in the Bahamas, where those bastards who made my having a fax machine useless by sending their crap to it on a daily basis.
Try it sometime. Get a fax machine and put it in your home. Once those junk faxers wardial your machine, you'll get all sorts of calls between 12AM and 5AM.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcams/donotcall/in dex.html
Wherever you go, there you are.
A do-not-email registry may be law soon too. Seven states (Maine, New York, South Carolina, Missouri, Colorado, Arizona, and Oregon) are currently considering legislation on the issue.
In addition, last Friday Senator Mark Dayton (D-Minn) introduced the "Computer Users' Bill of Rights." Among the bills provisions is a call for the Federal Trade Commission to create a national do-not-email list.
At unspam we've developed technology to help states create secure do-not-email registries and are working with a number of legislators to implement and develop effective enforcement strategies for them. For more information email: dne-slashdot@matthew.unspam.com.
Hook up ELIZA with her own voice and let the telemarketer spin their wheels for half an hour or so:
Telemarketer: Would you like to learn how to save on your long distance bills?
Eliza: Oh, i like to learn what to save on my long distance bills.
Telemarketer : Well, with our super saver program you can make long distance calls for just 39 cents a minute!
Eliza: Oh, i can make long distance calls for just 39 cents a minute.
Telemarketer: Uh, yes. So can I sign you up?
Eliza: You are sure?
Telemarketer: Um, yeah. Are you interested in signing up for our long distance service?
Eliza: Would you prefer if I were not interested in signing up for our long distance service?
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Today Telemarketing, Tomorrow SPAM!!!
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
UK's TPS
It actually works very well, and companies DO get into trouble if they violate the policy. It has not hindered tele-marketing at all, except that it has put an end to a lot of silly 'double glazing companies' from misusing the system by making them buy the list (which is quite expensive and must be upgraded frequently).
I am on the list, but most people do not know it exists. I have not recieved any crappy calls since signing on, but still recieve texts as they dont come under the same laws (a recent slashdot story
SMS Story
hints that texts may soon be part of this law, however, which is great!). There is also a snail-mail equivalent. Nice to see the self proclaimed 'free world' catching up with the other side of the pond!
This is probably just a means for the government to collect a list of 'dissidents'.
According to government statistics, there is a direct correlation between gun ownership, people who believe in 'real' freedom (not the PC fakey kind), and anti-telemarking activists.
You have been warned...
[ The Management ]
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
I've been thinking of building a device that would let anyone identifying themselves (via caller ID) ring through. However, the device would pick up any "Out of Area" calls and ask the caller to push a random number sequence to verify they weren't a solicitor before even ringing my phones.
Your solution sounds similar, but simpler - what device are you using? Where'd you get it?
It would be nice to think the Government cares about us little people getting "annoyed" with marketing calls, it seems it takes something more sinister to get a law like this through... I don't see how it will help though other than make folks aware of the difference between a con artist and a true salesman...
Sorry to say this folks, but the phone marketing people may be right about this one, all it will do is stop legitimate phone sales calls coming in...but the stuff that is really bad ($40 billion a year bad) will simply ignore the dumb list, or worse yet, abuse it, as so many people have pointed out... ugh.
-v
What a sweet day it is...
Less noise for Echelon
Actually, I believe many of these shops operate out of Montreal. Can't recall the source though.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
If you don't take political calls, you're supporting terrorism!!!
Wow, what set of spamlists are YOU on? While I'll agree that EVERY message I get from South Korea and China is spam, I can't say that MOST of my spam comes from outside of the U.S. Most of it (more than 50%) actually comes from inside the country. What's interesting about South Korea and China isn't that that's where all the spam comes from (or is relayed through) but that all messages that I DO receive from those countries are spam.
It almost doesn't matter. My Bayesian filter is implemented and I'm loving life. :)
FINALLY george W. bush does something smart.... too bad we dont have that up here in canada... as far as i know.
n/troll
Gee, if everyone wants to be on this do-not-call list, don't you think your business model kind of sucked in the first place? Get a real job, losers! All I have to say is good ridance.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
In Ohio, telephone survey companies have never had a do not call list, and were not bound by any do not call list, because we weren't trying to sell anything. We asked people for a portion of their time, and in exchange, most of the time we offered some kind of compensation.
Why telephone surveys are good for you: Product and Service Quality. This is all about quality, and the companies performing telephone surveys are doing so to provide better services and qualities to customers. We're not just looking for compliments either. If someone we call gives us an entirely negative set of questionaire responses, they still get any compensation that was offered.
Participating in a telephone survey is one of the best ways to have your voice heard. Generally, a survey company will only call you if there is some relavence. Previous customer, or customer of a competing product.
Hello, this is Ann Oy Ing from Aluminum Siding Incorportated and we would like you to do a simple survey for us. First let me describe our product...
Now for the survey questions
1. Would you like to buy our product?
2. Will you be paying cash or credit?
3. What is your address?
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Can I just tell telemarketers to call me back on my other line, 911-xxxx?
The $11,000 fine is a fine, so the consumers who get burned by the actions won't receive any of it.
But it will be lucrative enough for the gov't agency responsible that they will actually go after those who aren't in compliance. It doesn't rule out suing the telemarketting company either, so they could be fined and sued for the same action, with the gov't doing most of the leg work for you.
-Adam
Anyway, since telemarketers currently do not transmit Caller-ID information, I get no telemarketing calls. None. Zip. Nada.
Once telemarketers start transmitting Caller-ID information, Privacy Manager will be much less useful. But, if the national do-not-call list actually works, it will make up for it. Let's hope.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
So it's national. Whoo-hoo. All it means is that spammers will grab the list (hey, they're valid addresses) and go offshore. Most of my spam lately is pump&dump stocks and Nigeria/Congo scams (now that Afghanistan has a domain, how long til the first Nigeria-style spam comes from a .af addy?)
Wait, the FTC has to "buy in" for this to affect phone companies? 90% of my telemarketing calls are from phone companies wanting me to switch to their long distance service! Who wants to start a pool on when this doesn't happen by?
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
Thanks for making up my mind for me. I'd rather evaluate the merits of receiving telephone solicitations and make the decision to sign up on a do-not-call list myself, and I'm sure there are millions of others who agree.
And just so you know, some people LIKE to receive telemarketing calls, credit card offers, etc. Maybe they're lonely. Maybe they need toilet paper. It doesn't matter. If you sign me up for something that I didn't ask for, you are violating my privacy just as much as the guy who calls me in the middle of dinner.
to putting a file called robots.txt in your htdocs containing directories so spiders won't index them.
...
I have always felt that abusing predictive dialers (by under-staffing the call center and simply hanging up on some percentage of your victims) was against the spirit of the law. Now it's against the letter of the law.
Be thankful that you don't actually get as much government as you pay for!
The FTC has a great FAQ on their web page which explains the nitty-gritty... seems to me that this rule is pretty bulletproof:
- Companies which purport to be conducting a survey, but then ask you to buy stuff are still covered (ie. they can't call you if you are on the list).
- Charities and established business relationships can call, but once you ask not to be called (just once), they are prohibited from calling again.
- Telemarketing companies calling on behalf of exempted businesses (airlines, phone companies, etc) are prohibited from calling (the exempt companies/groups must make the calls themselves - they can't farm it out to a telemarketer).
- Even calls originating overseas are covered and will be enforced (or so they say).
- and much more...
Not bad.
It might seem interesting: couple days ago a law was introduced in Poland which actually outlaws spam ;-) In other words, no one can send you any kind of advertisement through e-mail, SMS or fax unless you explicitly agree to receive these advertisements.
;-)
Cool, isn't it
Seems like the republican party is the only one which actually cares, and does something about personal privacy and civil liberties.
There is a space in the "index" portion of the URL, but easily correctable. Mod this one up informative!
This sig no verb.
dude, that picture is freakin' hilarious
I'm no lover of telemarketers, but I would mention that if this does adversely affect telemarketing companies (and there's no reason to think it won't hit them hard), those companies will no longer be able to employ the folks that make the calls. As much as everyone despises telemarketers, understand that those are people making the calls because it's their *job* -- they're being paid to make them, and they depend on those wages to provide for themselves and their families.
This is not to say I disagree with the law. Rather, I'm just pointing out a significant number of folks are going to be dumped into the ranks of the unemployed. Yes, the law will be good, but the law will adversely affect *people*, not just companies, and, regardless of what one thinks of telemarketers (those actually manning the phones), they are employed, they pay taxes, and they go home to kids and bills and families.
I'm not sure what my point is, really, as I like the intent of the law and despise unsolicited phone calls. However, I get queasy reading the posts celebrating the demise of companies with no regard for the people who will be affected by that demise. It smacks of, if not outright malignance, then unnecessary insensitivity for the plight of fellow humans.
I got sick and tired of having to explain that I was a survey, not a telemarketer, I would not attempt to sell them anything, I would not use personally identifiable information about them for anything, their data was only to be looked at in large clumps, and I would not have phone sex with them!
As the person who got screamed at and otherwise abused, I would like nothing better than to NOT call people who are going to do that. It wastes their time, and wastes my time, and damages my hearing.
If you sign up for a Do Not Call List and fail to read the documentation closely, you may be under the impression that all mass calls to you are illegal, and no amount of explaination by the front-line flunky, or their manager, or the person at the company's 800 number, is going to convince this person differently, because, dammit, they have the Law on Their Side, and that was Illegal and Immoral and They Oughtta Pay For This... and they wind up wasting more of their time on righteous indignation caused by them not properly understanding the terms of the list than they would by quietly saying, "Put me on your do-not-call list" and hanging up.
I would far rather lose some accuracy in the survey, not call these people, and not waste everyone's time. If you don't want some phone company to call you to ask you if you want their service, you will NOT want the hired representative of that phone company to call you to ask you what you think of that service, another nationally known service, and the third service that you actually use for forty minutes.
I do think that certain surveys, such as the youth antismoking survey I had the pleasure of administering, should be exempt from Do Not Call lists, as those will actually be used to figure out ways that kids can be convinced that not only is smoking bad for their health, they should not try it (at least until they are of legal age).
(Amusingly, one man who happened to be employed by the cigarette company who was in fact sponsoring the study politely refused to have his kids take the survey, as he was afraid it would give him a bad rep with them for working for a cigarette company.)
However, surveys that don't have a purpose as noble as that one, such as a survey on burger preferences, should not be exempted from the national Do Not Call list.
Not that I'm saying you should quit doing this, but they do know its not a cellphone.
As another poster described (and I am repeating), phone numbers are portioned by interchanges, the three digits after the area code and before the four-digit part.
Cellphone carriers sign up in a particular area code, and are given a set of interchanges, from which they apportion their numbers. Its this interchange number that allows them to get calls into and out of the standard phone networks.
That's how I understand it anyway. Presumably the telemarketers are able to get a listing of interchanges from the phone company that are owned by cellphones...
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
[insert redneck joke here]
Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
Just how many damn things are they going to try to cram into the Windows Registry, anyhow?
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
The FCC oversees certain industries (airlines, banks and phone companies) and will have to "buy in" to the registry for it to affect those industries.
Wonder if there will be companies that do (insert random thing) business but think to get themselves excluded by paying $1000 to become a "phone company" (a reseller of long distance service). If the FCC doesn't buy into the FTC's list, then such a company might have a loop hole and be able to share the data in own "division" of the company to it's others (ie. it's actual original business).
Companies are already running call centres for the UK and Australia (and probably the US) out of India. They give their staff fake Western-style names, and give them voice coaching and "cultural awareness" training so that they can fool most people into believing that they actually speaking to local staff.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Or did the telemarketers just piss off enough voters and string pullers without having a strong enough lobby group and "campaign donation" team of their own? I can see this one. GM beats telemarketer. GE beats Telemarketer. Monsanto beats telemarketer. Texas beats telemarketer...
Unfortunately for me, I live in Oz, hence no register or law and the only calls I get are charities and surveys from people using phone number generators.
Alternately I offer to send them a bill and ask for appropriate details or I ask them to call back in half an hour (they never do).
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Hi! I'm conducting a Survey:
Would you like to refinance?
Would you like a credit card?
Did you know you won a trip?
Do you want to switch long distance carriers?
M@
Krispy Cream is people
Assuming this passes the Supremes, regarding the 'first amendment - free speech' test...
I forget where I read it, probably here somewhere, but commercial speech is not protected in the same way that personal speech is. Therefor, companies will at least have a harder time pursuing any argument based on free speech than a non-profit/political group would.
If anyone happens to know where in law this is located, I'd be interested to find out.
"When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind." -- Bill Moyers
Actually call centers use VoIP technology to place calls from overseas without incurring those kind of charges...
Cool, and do-no-call activists can write up a nifty perl script that will register every number from 000-000-0000 to 999-999-9999.
Might as well, the telemarketers do essentially the same thing.
My question: Is this legal? I have a vague memory that war dialing (having your computer dial blocks of numbers looking for network access points) was illegal. Since I get several calls a day from a computer I've often wondered if (a) if that counts as war dialing, and (b) it's still (or ever was) illegal.
Of course, it could just be that my mom planted that idea to keep me from playing Global Thermonuclear War on my PCjr.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
Bush had time to sign a bill into a law instead of beating the war drum?
If I get ONE MORE CALL about people asking me about George Wendt, eating beans, and movies, I'm gonna scream!
This sig no verb.
Surveys are exempted because they're an easy way for politicians to stay in touch with their constituents, without, um, *actually* staying in touch with their constituents. No way they're gonna legislate that convenience away!
b.g.
..I like surveys. They ask you questions. You can then tell them you're 4012 years old, have ninteen children, and make three dollars and twelve cents a year.
:(
They usually hang up halfway through
Maybe I'm neurotic, but I enjoy doing that. It doesn't work on other telemarketers, though, so I'm glad they're blocking them.
Hello, my name is _________
I'm conducting a poll for Industrial ScienCorp. Would you be willing to answer a series of questions?
Yes or no, did you know that by switching to AT&T today, you could save 12.3% on all calls to Michigan?
Yes or no, did you know that by switching now, you could be entered into a national drawing for a lifetime supply of fried Twinkies?
...etc.
~SL
Meaningful posts keep being modded down... all desire to contribute fading... fading...
The REAL reason is that the US Congress only has the power to pass laws that affect interstate commerce. Read it.
Now, that does not always stop them from passing bad/illegal law but that is another rant.
This will only a affect INTERSTATE calls, not intrastate calls. All a telemarketer has to do is set up a call center in your state and they can call you all they want.
I know Ohio is working on its own Do-Not-Call list to stop the intrastate calls.
What, me worry?
anyone have a link or the phone number to this thing?
The article seems to imply that this will not apply to phone companies, airline companies, and banks. It has been my experience that THESE THREE MAKE ALL THE CALLS!!!!
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Most charities are scams. There's no guarantee that they are completely non profit. Who gives a shit about helping other people anyway?
Surveys are meaningless too. Do we really need more demographics like this?
Why the fuck is it acceptable for politicians to call people. They sure as hell aren't going to call people themselves. It's just going to be more and more recorded greetings to vote for Joe Political Science Fag.
The worst part about telemarketers is there is nothing you can do about them. Caller ID doesn't work. Telling them not to call back does not work. The Telezapper doesn't work. You can't threaten them, or you will get in trouble. You can't sexually harass them or offend them or you will get in trouble. The only thing that sort of works now is to get a cell phone and ditch the land line. Who knows how long that solution will last though.
To all you crazy people and militant cults out there: i.e. Scientologists, the US Postal Service, Al Queada, those white guys in the woods in Michigan with all those machine guns etc.: if you are reading this, please torture and kill all telemarketers. Allah will be proud.
Yes, this may discourage the current crop of telemarketers, but I just want to know who gets the cash if one is busted. If its me, I welcome all callers. Checks may be made out to...
Do-Not-Email list
That is a good point. We can all hope that this is the thin end of the wedge, and more forms of invasive advertising get banned. I have often thought that advertising designed deliberately to annoy people should be banned. It's not like people will spend less and the economy will suffer just because annoying and invasive forms of advertising are outlawed. Society would be better off for it.
The worst telemarketing calls I get are from the Policemen's or Firemen's fund.
The Implementation Calendar is reasonably agressive, which is suprising. By October we should be getting getting significantly fewer calls. Frankly, I'm suprised that the legislation was signed at all, but having been signed, It's admirable that any republican administration would allow such an agressive track to implementation. I guess the Direct Marketing Association didn't contribute enough to the Bush campeign, or, perhaps direct marketers have pissed off enough people on both sides of the isle, that no level of lobbying would have altered the outcome.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Sure it is. You have an email address, you've basically made it available to people to email you. You didn't give anyone notice otherwise. This is why I can mail you truckloads of junk mail: you have a mailbox.
It's less burdensome for you to delete spam than it is to throw away junk mail. And email doesn't effectively arrive (i.e. enter your awareness) at inconvenient times of day -- only when you take the effort to check your mail.
Freedom of speech means you're going to have to put up with other people's speech that you don't like. No one's forcing you to listen to it, but if you want to participate in society, you're basically stuck with it.
Most of your comments seem focused on unsolicited commercial phone calls. I agree that time, place or manner restrictions are fine. But they don't allow total exclusion either. No calls between 7pm-8am could work. No calls at all is not okay.
It's not as though you're required to have a phone, set it to ring, answer it, or listen to the call. But having availed yourself of the benefits of having a phone, it is YOUR responsibility to shield yourself from all unwanted intrusions.
No-call lists work because they're essentially the equivalent of a 'no solicitors' sign for your phone. Fail to give warning, and you're fair game my friend.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Telemarketers sign you up for their call lists without asking you.
Does your brain hurt yet? Wait for it...
Do you still believe your an English citizen too?
I'm taking a survey. Would you be interested in buying our product or service?
In Warsaw they're probably telling american jokes.
Cool, isn't it ;-)
Very!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The industry is far from dead. It will be restructred in terms of a National OK-To-Call list. Be careful what you allow them to do when you fill out another credit application or sign up for a "free" product.
Companies have been planning for this contingency for years. I'm sure you've seen the "check here" boxes in every application you've filled out recently. They ask for you direct permission to contact you about future offers, sometimes from other companies as well.
I'm sure the ground these future boxes cover is about to rapidly expand. And when you go to sue and show your membership in the Do-Not-Call list, they will pull out your registration card for your new lawnmower and show the judge where you gave them explicit permission to contact you. Case dismissed.
Less than 200 Dems voted for it. But I digress. This really isn't a Republican or Democrat issue -- if anything it's a Democrat issue (as Dems want larger, more expansive, more intrusive government).
Dan
Have you called your phone or cable company recently? Near the end of the conversation, the operator will try to sell you something. They will not let you go without a fight. It's very annoying to have to put up with this crap when _you called them_, to resolve a billing despute, problem with your service, etc.
I needed a copy of a bill AT&T claimed to have sent me, but I never recieved. The woman I spoke with would not "put the order through" without asking me "a few quick questions", ie: Do you have a cordless phone? Do you surf the web? AT&T is having a special on DSL (etc etc). I was afraid to hang up, because I didn't want the drone to get pissed, and not send me what I needed.
Watch this become more and more common as the telemarketers try to find a new way to make a living...
*sigh*
Taxation without representation is tyranny! Statehood for DC, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands & Pacific Territories!
The limitations placed on the federal government (especially by the Tenth Amendment) have meant almost nothing for quite some time now. Once in a while the SCOTUS will smack them down on something, but most of the abuses are not reviewed by the court.
-- My comment is above.
well, yeah, but the closest to Libertarian member of Congress, Ron Paul (R-TX), voted no.
Next up, the National Do-Not-E-Mail law.
Hey,
The callers could move outside the US, but the cost of making the phone calls would increase dramatically.
In the UK, some companies cut thier costs by moving thier telephone call processing facilities to India. It's actually cheaper to get a big international connection than paying a living wage.
Michael
If someone claims to be doing a survey, they will have to post the results. So any marketeers thinly veiling a sales push as a survey will end up with these results: we asked people what they thought of our products. 96% said 'this is just a thinly veiled sales push, now **** off!' 2% didn't know 1% didn't think our products justified war with Iraq 1% said 'Cowboy Neal, is that you?' christian cook www.christiancook.com
When will people learn to spell. The word is "RIDICULOUS" with an I not an E. There is NO "E" in Ridiculous.
:)
Write the word out 1,000 times immediately!
What are the cross-implications of this precedent in the Internet world? I know many people have pointed out the "do-not-spam" or "do-not-/." list possibilities, but in effect this is access control by legislation. The same paridigm could be used to set-up a list of otherwise publically available internet resources that it would be illegal for certain groups to access. Maybe a national "do-not-hack" list?
Dupe posts are
That is true for incoming calls (as specified by the Aussie) but measured service for outgoing calls is common in United States metropolitan areas (and required for businesses).
Huh? Either you get an unusually small number of spams, or an unusually large amount of physical junk mail... Because, *I* for one, certainly spend a whole hell of a lot more time deleting spam than throwing away physical junk mail, despite your outrageous claims to the contrary! Trashing junk mail is easy and effortless... And, OCCASSIONALLY, it even contains something useful (rare, but it happens)... On the other hand, spam NEVER contains anything the slightest bit useful... It's all scams and semi-illegal schemes and obnoxious, often obscene, almost always completely unprofessional looking, sales pitches for complete and utter crap no one in their right mind could ever possibly be interested in... (Except, perhaps, for some of the porn, of course... ;-)) And, there is a metric ASSLOAD of it!! If one received as many pieces of physical junk mail as one does spam messages, they would be literally buried in it! (And, the post office might make enough money to stop raising the price of stamps every damned year or so... ;-/) It's just overwhelming and impossible to cope with... And, it's all unwanted... At least with physical mail (and, land-line phone calls), the ones sending you the junk have to foot the bill to send it, and it doesn't cost you anything besides your wasted time... (Which is STILL a lot to ask, however...) But, with spam (and, cell-phone calls, too, I believe), the one stuck receiving the unwanted junk ALSO has to PAY for it! That's just horribly unfair and completely without any sort of rational justification... For the same reason junk faxes are illegal, spam should be illegal: it costs ME money, and wastes MY resources, to receive the unwanted junk...
They are men of power. They hump their beautiful but otherwise useless secretaries.
If you and I ever got that powerful, we would have no need for watching sexual variety.
Would you be interested in participating in a survey today, Mr. Storm?....
Any thoughts on how this will affect business-to-business telemarketing?
Our company brokers electronic components and does some cold calling to buyers at OEMs.
Has anyone reviewed the legislation to see if a business could add their numbers to the do-not-call list?
I believe "No calls at all" is perfectly reasonable for someone who has requested it, but it depends if you want to approach from a perspective of passive or intrusive speech.
Passive speech is when someone stands on a street corner with a megaphone talking about his wares, or walks down the street with a sign. There's nothing wrong with this, you can keep walking, you can keep carrying on your conversation with your friends, you can keep reading your book.
Instrusive is when that guy stands in your way, or grabs a hold of your arm in an attempt to make you listen to his sales pitch. He disrupts you, even if only for a momemt while you push him off and say an obscenity - you've had to stop your conversation with your friend, you've lost your place in your book...
Telemarketing is much more intrusive. Junk mail is more passive. Email is somewhere between, depending on how someone uses email - check it once a day and it's not so intrusive, live your life by it (your job requires constant checking) and it becomes much more intrusive.
I know the constitution doesn't make the distinction, but the right to free speech is obviously not a right to intrusive free speech - it is the same as saying "You have the right to say what you want, you don't have the right to make people listen." When you call someone on the phone, you are requiring their time, their effort, and even if they don't listen to the sales pitch and they hang up, you have forced them to listen to some of what you have to say, even if it's only "I'm so and so calling from some company..."
It's wrong, it always has been, and that people are gainfully employed in that industry doesn't make it any less so. Especially if someone requests not to be bothered, that request ought to be honored.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
I have heard this as well, and the biggest part that works in their favor is that the calls from Canada to U.S. generally seem to not include caller ID information.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
A dedicated junk call fighter who cannot afford to mount massive lawsuits should endeavor to cost telemarketers the maximum amount of money by keeping such callers on the line as long as possible. Engage them in as long a conversation as you can, letting them cling to the faintest hope that you might fall for their scam. Every minute you tie them up is a minute they cannot be talking to another victim.
These telemarketing employees may not be paid a lot, but their employer is counting on some ratio of sales per minute spent on the phone. Those who fight junk phone calls should endeavor to drive those ratios into the ground.
For those happen to have access to the Internet, I predict someone will be setting up services used for making contact with others who were victimized by the same telemarketer.
> In Canada you can ask to be removed from the calling list of the company that contacts you, and by law they have to [...]
I never ask to be removed from the list, as those lists are usually ad-hoc and being removed from one does not preclude your number from being (automatically?) put on others.
Instead, I ask whether the telemarketing organization has a do-not-call list and ask to be put on it.
For extra incentive, you may ask the caller to repeat his/her name and the name of his/her supervisor, inform them that any further calls from their organization will be considered harrassment and their names will be on the lawsuit. Then mention that the conversation was recorded.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Paul's opposition to Big Government is generally commendable, but sometimes it becomes a reflex substitute for thought. In this case, the government action was a protection of rights (specifically, the right to keep trespassers out of your phone line), not (as usual) another infringement.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Ignore the fact that C is about 5 or 6 generations old. Python, perl, C++, Delphi, Java, and C# have all innovated programming. You guys stick to your stdio.h
I regularly get a call by some unnamed bank saying something like this(its prerecorded by the way):
"Hi we're doing a survey to find out if someone would like to save money on their home loan with reduced rates! If you'd like to participate, say so..." (silence to say something, if no is said, the message still continues, and calls back) "Would consumers switch to a different service if they could save money on this?" (silence for yes/no)
The message asks these questions in the exact context of a survey, but is pure telemarketing, and has the intention of a sale, not a survey.
a means for the government to collect a list of 'dissidents'.
I hate to point out the exceptionally obvious, but if you live in the US (or Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Brazil, Japan, South Korea) it is the people who elect and choose "the government". Here in the states, we decided over 225 years ago that we didn't like others telling us what to do with or without our consent. Say what you will about voter turnout, special interest groups and the like... the system in place in nearly the entire western world is one where "the government" is what the people collectively decide upon. There isn't any us vs. them. There is just us.
Or was there some sort of change and I didn't get the memo?
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
Laws are such fun. Every law that closes one opportunity opens three others. This is such a good one too.
I'm already figuring on letting charities sell long distance phone service, credit card protection and magazines. They'll make a nice bit of change out of it. I'll even rent them my lists of numbers (no numbers excluded), and if they need it, I have a whole building full of phones and people who can do the work for them for a small fee.
And politicians - they already know J. Cheever Loophole and how I can help them.
I think I can get the "pre-existing relationship" to work too. Maybe with ex-girlfriends/ex-boyfriends. Maybe even rent out girlfriends/boyfriends to establish the relationship!
And my friend Captain Spaulding, who is now working for one of the big cellular companies thinks that with this in place they can talk congress into allowing calls to cell phones, from the cell companies that sell the cell service. The cell companies would win twice - once being paid for the marketing calls, and once again by making more money off the connection charges.
Now if I could only patent all this....
Oh, thats right. I can.
</spurious-quote>
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done, and I am Caesar."
-Julius Caesar
It is possible to love America and support her troops without agreeing with the policies of our government. It is the duty and right of each citizen to speak out against injustice as we see it.
Blindly supporting an unjust government policy is unAmerican.
You can make a difference:
Write to your elected representatives and tell them how you feel.
Register to Vote.
God Bless America
Peace
I forget where I read it, probably here somewhere, but commercial speech is not protected in the same way that personal speech is. Therefor, companies will at least have a harder time pursuing any argument based on free speech than a non-profit/political group would.
In the US as a rule commercial speech is protected far more than non-commercial speech, precisely because corporations pay for our election process. Not only that, but my right to speak about corporations is less powerful than their right to speak sbout me. For instance, any monkey can set up a business and put things in a credit report I can't read without paying for, but if I say something bad (and TRUE) about a company I might get sued into oblivion.
you haven't actually done this have you?
:)
We call and call, and keep calling until either we get ahold of the proper person (oldest male / female / whatever), we take cell-phones, we take re-directs to other lines (sometimes), etc.
Sometimes we ferget trying to get a specific person at a specific number, but that just means we must call more people in a wider range to get the non-response rate down.
Most people own phones (what 98%? of households?)
Surveys end up correcting for single-mother bias, and unemployeed bias, which is part of why they ask for your yearly income and other demographic information, so that they can make sure they match up to census records. So sometimes at the end of a study we only need to talk to males, or females.
And I've always had better luck reaching those watching small children than singles, who're more likely to be out whenver you call.
And yeah, we are excluding people. Which is why sometimes studies get up enough cash to pay us to go door-to-door. So reasearch just gets more and more expensive, and it gets harder and harder to get valid results. Thanks
Random data is *hard* to get, so you make do with what you can get, and you end up with those pesky +/- all the time.
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
I explain that this is a cell phone, and I pay by the min for incomming and out going calls and as such is it illegal for them to call this number.
You pay for incomming calls??? Why do you live - Ferengistan?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Are they going to automatically include all numbers on the various state do-not-call lists?
That's a judgment call. Clearly someone is interested in this; we've seen that some spammers have commercial success, and others would surely stop if they were spending so much time in fruitless endeavor. That doesn't mean that the rate of return is high: it might be one positive respondent per million spams sent. But there is some interest. Certainly there are probably religious movements that are less appealing but no one supports banning their attempts to proselytize.
It's just overwhelming and impossible to cope with
I'd disagree. It may not be perfectly effortless to seperate the wheat from the chaff as it were, but the same thing applies to junk mail, and a minimal burden is basically the price you pay for having an email box that can be sent to from anyone, i.e. for not whitelisting.
spam should be illegal: it costs ME money
People keep saying this: I don't believe it. Got some proof?
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
> Clearly someone is interested in this
;-)), and go away and relax for a while...
As you said: Got some proof?? I've yet to even HEAR of a person, let alone meet them, who didn't absolutely despise all spam, and curse its existence... I'll grant you, there are some pretty stupid people around, so there has to be SOME who actually buy stuff through spam... (After all, some apparently responded to the Nigerian scams, and got duped... I still have a hard time imagining these people, though... I don't know how they can be THAT stupid, yet still somehow remain living...) But, being stupid enough to be duped into buying unwanted junk via spam is NOT the same as actually WANTING and DESIRING spam, either... But, even in the bizarre event that there ARE a few strange people who actually DO want spam, then fine, let them specifically sign up for it and request it; then, it's no longer "spam", because it's specifically requested and desired...
> others would surely stop if they were spending
> so much time in fruitless endeavor
What time?? Have you looked at spam, lately? It's not exactly high-quality advertisement material, that takes very long to put together... And, sending it should be pretty effortless and quick... Hell, they probably don't even need to be around to actually DO anything: just feed a spam message to their software (or, let it generate one, itself; some spam sure LOOKS like stuff a deranged computer would write
> Certainly there are probably religious
> movements that are less appealing but no one
> supports banning their attempts to proselytize.
I don't know about that... If any used methods nearly as sleazy as spam, *I* for one would sure as hell support banning their attempts... In fact, I support banning "door-to-door god salesmen", a la Jehova's Witnesses' attempts to force their beliefs on everyone... If people were interested, they'd go to bloody church! If not, leave them alone, and let them go to 'hell', or whatever... Geez... But, still, that's not even a FRACTION as sleazy as spam... At least they will generally leave and not come back if you tell them to; and, they don't arrive at your door every few seconds of every hour of every day; and, they don't cost you money every time they knock or ring your doorbell...
> People keep saying this: I don't believe it.
> Got some proof?
Proof that spam costs the receiver money?? Well, I assume you're online now... Do you pay an ISP for your Net connection, or do you get one free somehow?? Most of us tend to have to PAY for it... (Except for college kids, of course...) And, for most of us, there is some set bandwidth limit associated with our connection... Every bit of data transmitted to or from us sucks up that bandwidth, taking away our ability to possibly utilize it for something else we want... On top of that, E-mail must be stored on disk at the server, utilizing some portion of its available resources that could be better spent on something else... And, every mail server and router it hops through between source and destination must spend time processing the message and dealing with it as appropriate... And, then, it must be downloaded to your computer, and at least temporarily waste your resources, too... Computer resources are not free; they have some real, actual cost... And, for that matter, wasted time has real, actual cost, as well, especially when it occurs during the work day, taking time away from when you SHOULD be working... But, you are FORCED to deal with unwanted spam instead, because it was sent to your work address, and you HAVE to regularly check that for important work-related E-mail... Not to mention all the time and effort people are forced to spend trying to FIGHT this scourge, by developing and deploying various anti-spam software, and spam-armoring their E-mail addresses, and various other nonsense that shouldn't be necessary... And, still, none of it is to much avail: the scumbags still kee