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Apple Terminates Safari Seed Program
coolmacdude writes "This morning Safari beta v67 was leaked to the Internet. Because this is the third time it has happened (v62 and v64 were leaked), Apple has apparantly had enough and decided to terminate the seed program that provided unreleased beta verisons to selected developers. In a email sent to all developers and posted on Mike Wendland's blog, Apple says:
'Due to Safari 67 postings to the internet, we have closed the Safari Seed project. We know that the majority of you are not responsible for the leaks to the internet, and we sincerely appreciate your feedback, time and effort with this project.'"
apple is gay
fp u fucks
uhhh... first post, or something
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _
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o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a
t_______/\_|___C_____)/_Shock\_(_____>__|_/_____t
s______/_/\|___C_____)___and_|__(___>___/__\____s
e_____|___(____C_____)\__Awe_/__//__/_/_____\___e
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*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_
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Damn that Johnny Appleseed and his plan to propogate the Safari with Apple Trees... I knew it would never work!
-=SiGH=-
More testers = more bugs found = better product.
This is not violating any kind of license, like GPL? After all, Safari is Konqueror based. Or that will run when the final version is released?
I guess my subject line sums it up
Thats too bad that a few had to ruin it for everyone else. Giving out software like that is a privage, not your God given right. People should respect Apple's wishes and wait until the full release, but no. Now its too late.
given apple's history of siccing lawyers on sites that dare to post pics of the latest & greatest before they're officially unveiled, the only surprising thing is that it lasted this long...
Doesn't it make more sense for them to have as many testers as possible on pre-release builds? This way they find potential issues missed through the undoubtedly small QA team on the project.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
I know that Apple probably has good reason not to make the various beta releases of Safari available to the public, but I think they are missing out on a good marketing opportunity here. These Safari releases are keeping everyone interested, or they're keeping me interested anyway. Plus, people can see the new features as they are implemented and maybe once a favorite feature is added, emails about getting that feature will reduce.
Smeghead every day of the week.
Who cares? It's just a browser that's going to be released for free in the future anyways. And it's based off of Free software at any rate.
I consider this to be a small ethical violation on the part of the individual who leaked the beta, at least compared to many other things. Nevertheless, Apple had placed their trust in a group of developers, and some jerk decided to violate that trust. However small of a violation that this may be, as compared to, say, murder, I would still like to see that individual publically flogged.
Part of the core rendering is based on Konqueror and is open source (and they do release the enhancements they make to that part back to the community). Everything else that is wrapped around it is not open source. So they have no requirement to let everybody see every little change they make there...and won't.
Why not just post the thing with a Talkback-like client and get feedback/bug reports from everybody? I know it is closed source but why not develop a Safari fan base by letting a community build around it. This is what Apple is best known for, right?
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
If you want to be on the bleeding edge use Camino nightly builds :)
t /
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/camino/nightly/lates
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Surprisingly, not everyone follows the open source mantra. There are legitimate reasons for not wanting to provide constant releases. One is confusion among a less educated (some might also say intelligent) user base - people getting what is effectively a beta and don't know it end up bitching at Apple. This makes them look incompetent, and can cause problems for their image.
Apple has good reasons for wanting to keep their stuff under wraps until they ship. This doesn't make them wrong, unenlightened, or the enemy.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Director George Lucas, of "Star Wars" fame, was found dead in the Skywalker Ranch this evening. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
Why don't apple just fucking watermark each copy they give out. Stupid fuckers.
pardon the Typo.
I think Apple has a lot of similarities to North Korea. Both are radical, extremist and are completely inflexible. Both like to issue unilateral proclamations to its citizens in the case of North Korea and its customers and resellers in the case of Apple. Colorful characters make up the leadership for both organizations. The leader of North Korea is Kim who runs around wearing sunglasses. The leader of Apple is Steve Jobs who sees himself as a diety preaching Apple like a religion. Geographically and politically, North Korea isolates itself from the rest of the world. Similarly Apple has isolated itself from the entire information technology industry.
Signed,
Disgruntled Apple II user
I hear they are good cloners. That's what Dex told me, anyhow.
How hard would it be for them to put in the developer builds a little code to pop up a splash screen everytime that safari loads that reminds the user that it is a developer, not end-user build unless they disable that in the preferences?
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
With the KHTML engine still undergoing internal tweaking for better DOM/CSS/etc support, I think Apple should look to the Mozilla project for their approach to browser development. Why not publicly release nightly betas, so users can post feedback on development as with BugZilla? Users don't expect the nightlies to be perfect, but it would keep the tweakers (and web designers like me) happy, and the developers would get a lot more feedback on their progress, whereas most casual users can happily download milestone releases.
Otherwise, the standards compliance of the browser will possibly be delayed (all the esoteric little implementation issues, especially with CSS and DHTML). After all, many eyeballs results in better code, especially with something as complex as a web browser.
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
They're pulling to the 1.3 mozilla trunk for the version of geko they embed in camino right now, and they introduced a whole slew of bugs when they did so. You might want to stick to the .7 release for a month or so unless you're a real masochist.
.7 release or safari, and just check the nightlies when something I'm interested in gets mentioned on bugzilla.
I used to use the Chimera nightly builds almost exclusively, but these days I stick to the
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
Mozilla can look like:
A kitchen sink
Mac OS X
Internet Explorer
the linux kernel. (it has as many lines of code as the linux kernel!)
So one could literally say that a few bad seeds ruined it for everyone else...
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
Without getting into the neverending "tabbed browsing" argument, I'll go out on a limb and say that these leaked builds will probably help Safari's marketshare in the long run. In browsing various Mac messageboards before and after v60 was leaked, I can tell you that many people dumped Camino the moment that tabs were discovered in Safari's debug menu. Had Safari's tabs been kept under wraps until the next public beta, Camino would have only matured and captured more users, which in the long run could've decreased the number of users using Safari. Of course this is all speculation. And I won't even get into the benefit that Apple realized by having a larger user base testing these builds.
Women are conniving sluts. A woman is either a whore or in denial. My next woman better take cock in every single one of her holes and suck the cum out of her ass and cunt - and no bitching about how my cock is "too big" or "won't fit." I'll make it fit you fucking slut! Then and only then will I give my "girlfriend" all the perks and benefits that women EXPECT to have just GIVEN to them, and all the while a man's needs remain unfulfilled and deemed second to a woman's. So if you want that diamond ring, nice house, and nice car, you better get on your fucking knees and open wide honey!
Helicopters -- 5
Iraq -- 2
Disgruntled Soldiers -- 0
In the interest of full or false disclosure (you decide), I should let you all know that I'm not using v64, which I did not find at macrumors, and it does not have tabbed browsing, which I donot find to be the final feature which makes Safari not kick ass on the mac.
Had I known that these were seeds that Apple didn't want released, I would of course have downloaded them and used them. I would, after all, want to spoil a good thing
Move the nots around to make the above true.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
I Love Safari!!
Here you are....:
FFFuUUUuUUCcCCCKkKK YYyYOoOOUuUU
Biatch!!
It's out? Thanks. Quick Google search. Got it. Love it.
Should I notify Apple that when you leave the tabs on all the time and "Open in tabs" a docked bookmark that the first tab always looks "active" (though the windowing for the tabs works fine)?
It's too bad Apple is taking this stance. They should understand, realize, and if they were smart: CAPITALIZE on that fact that there _is_ a reason why us lowly end users are clamoring for the latest builds of Safari.
It works. Like most Apple software it works very well -- even at the beta level. Yes, this is too bad...
We see this time and again. It is because of this sort of stupidity that Apple have released 10.2.4 and destroyed so many machines - because of this piss-poor atttitude to any sort of beta program....
Hell, Apple already made buckets of cash selling a beta OS and then further charging to make it perform reasonably. They're missing a fabulous opportunity here to charge for Safari Beta, and charge for the upgrades as well.
I'll admit that I don't even know what Safari is, but since it will most likely on run on Macs when it is finished what difference does it make if Apple pulls the betas or even stops development altogether? Until Apple ports its OS to an open platform it isn't going to matter what they do or don't do as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if OS-X will make french toast and give me a blow job, as long as I have to shell out $$$ for a proprietary system that is over-priced for the ammount of power it has I'm not going to run it.
:)
I've heard rumors about apple demonstrating OS-X running on Athlon based systems that were literally welded shut. While this is interesting I'm almost certain that Apple won't ever sell a version of OS-X for x86 that will run on anything BUT these special boxes.
Apple is a failed monopoly. They played the keep everything proprietary game and were overrun with open standards based best-of-breed PCs. Once upon a time PC's tried to emulate the Mac, now the shoe is on the other foot. The reason that Microsoft is a successful Monopoly is because it was able to ride the open-platform that is the PC to the top. Apple certainly could have done the same thing. Once upon a time, back in the mid to late 80's, the Mac made the PC look second-rate. If Apple had gotten out of the hardware business and focused on MacOS and applications for the Mac, chances are pretty decent that the Mac would have won, or at the very least still have enough of a market share to be a significant platform.
Nowadays the only people using them are die-hards and people who got them in order to play with their version of Unix. I'd like to play with their unix too, but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a whole new computer to do it.
A very big part of why Linux is so successful is because it runs on ordinary commodity PCs. If it were tied to something like the Sparc or the MIPS or the PPC it would be nothing but a curiosity and FreeBSD would be where it is now.
Flame me all you want, I've got karma to spare
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
They should have done that trick where each developer gets a slightly different copy, possibly each having a different easter egg embedded inside. All they then have to do is download the version from the internet and trigger the easter egg to find out which copy was leaked and cut that developer off.
--
Dreamweaver Templates
What, you didn't see Attack of the Clones?
Why would anyone name it Camino, anyway.
What's up with these developers? It's like they're desparately trying to be one of the "cool kids," leaking the code to the Internet. "Yippee!"
So, in an attempt at trying to upgrade their status to being picked only second to last in gym class, all the legitimate developers who respect agreements they've made have to suffer.
Nice going!
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
The leader of Apple is Steve Jobs who sees himself as a diety[sic] preaching Apple like a religion.
You mean "deity", silly troll.:)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
Thou dost preach the true gospel of Cupertino! The infidels who lack vision shall falter and Saint Jobs shall change the world! Blessed is the one true computer and blessed are the followers of the Church of Cupertino. Dammed are those who do not see the light and are left to dwell in the outer darkness of PeeCee use for all eternity! I'm proud to say that I first saw the light back in year 2 (1986 for the infidels) and have been a loyal follower ever since. Never have I been tempted to use the devil's instrument. I know that when my frail body fails I shall dwell in the house of Jobs forever.
There is a big trade-off between getting a decent sized community to test a product and allowing a not-yet-debugged product out into the wild.
As a developer is it very valuable to have a willing group of people willing to test and feedback on not-yet-ready-for-market products. Unfortunately if these releases then get a wider distribution to people who don't understand that the app us a work in progress (as has happened with safari), any problems (which would be solved before an official release) reflect badly on both the product and the developer.
Given that the betas are being leaked, and Apple's reputation for quality of its products, I don't think they had any option but to cancel to program. I also welcome their move for other reasons:
As a web developer, one of the major issues I face is not just making a site compatible with the major browser releases (which in itself is a problem), but also with all the betas that are still being used. Many beta releases (or should have been betas) have quite significant bugs which are *very* difficult to work around. For example, I still see hits from people using betas of Netscape 4.
Once a pre-release product makes it into the wild, many of the initial users will continue it use it since 'it works for me'. Of course, if this browser doesn't work with a site due to bugs or incompatibilities in the browser, its the sites fault - from the users perspective - and my clients if the user complains. These almost-right products seem to persist almost forever.
I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.
with much gayness,
Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
I wonder if khtml group should stop allowing Apple to test betas as well
Thanks for your letter. Being Catholic myself, I know exactly what you're talking about! It has always been our plan here at Apple Computer Inc to revolutionize personal computing with our high-quality and highly gay products.
I'm happy to answer your letter by letting you know that YES we will be releasing an entire hLife ("homo-life") software line. You'll be able to recognize it in stores by the small stylized logo depicting a large cock entering a tight anus with an Apple logo on it. ("Suddenly it all comes together" indeed!).
Anyway, I hope you and other members of our community will join us on our mission, and purchase the exciting new hLife boxed set. Only the boxed set comes with translucent cock rings!
Sincerely,
Harry Rodman
Vice-president
Homosexual Liaison Services
Apple Computer, Inc.
...reaps bitter harvest of forbidden fruit -Maya Angelou
1) They should have known that it would be available for download on the net as soon as they handed it out. If they didn't take that into account before starting the program they're idiots.
2) A lot of people justify Apple here by posting the standard shit about it being terrible for the public to see an unfinished product. This is wrong and silly. Most people who come across this type of thing and are willing to install a beta are a) warez people who aren't gonna buy it anyway, or b) early adopters who are itching to try it out and are going to buy it no matter what.
3) And finally some people are going to whine about the humanity of programmers having to see their beautiful program that they love like a child being stolen by the masses. Tell them to stop whining. The programmers are wage slaves. If the company earns more money because of massive warezing (that should be 'When the company inevitably earn more...') the programmers should shut up about the hurt to their souls and get back to fulfilling their contracts.
Software companies act like this because they are run by idiots. You have no clue of the true magnitude of the crass stupidity they are capable of.
And Apple just likes to throw temper tantrums. They probably lost more customers by canceling this program and making a stink than they would have lost by having betas escape into the wild.
Get it while it's hot:
s af ariv67.dmg
http://www.ewetel.net/~wolfgang.eichner/public/
who cares
It's been 15 seconds since you hit 'reply'!
Apple users are about 8x more likely to pirate software, according to the latest survey from MediaMetrix.
I need some help from fellow Apple fans. My rectum is aching for a good male fist. Please,
Apple fanboys, please insert your fist into my rectum and make a fellow Apple guy happy.
Al Gore being added to Apple's board of directors.
its like they're TRYING to kill off their fan base...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Mod me up you ass clowns
It would be trivial to add an embedded key to every copy that goes out, then you can trace the exact guy hwo is giving them out!
for the record: the ways in which the APSL does not meet the GNU's notion of "free" can be found here. I acknowledge that there are other licenses than the GPL and other open source organizations than GNU, but I think this particular analysis does quite a good job at laying out the issues.
We Apple users should get together for an annual Gay Safari--a real safari to Africa. We could go touring Africa with our Apple computers. We could "blog" about our homosexual encounters with African Gay Negroes. We could make iMovies about gay lions and and gay zebras--a real eco-gay adventure for Apple guys. What say? Let's do it.
Maybe instead of discontinuing this program, Apple should have quietly started watermarking the private builds of Safari. A different watermark for each developer they give a sneak peak too. Then when it's leaked, they'll know who did it.
Of course, they may do this already, and just decide not to divulge that information... Just a thought anyway.
"Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
Apple users don't have a choice. Like communist North Korea, they are forced to use those shitty Apple computers.
Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark.
I tested v67 out and I think there was a reason Apple didn't want it out: Bugs. This thing has so many bugs... it freezes, you can't click/select anything sometimes (but you can still load pages), among other things...
So perhaps they simply didn't want to give a bad impression out, and don't want to be berraged by a million emails all pointing bugs out that they are most definitely aware of.
Best. Webhost. Ever. Dreamhost.
For me to do that I'd have to pull my fist out of my own ass. And my other fist is up Steve Jobs' ass right now. Maybe another Apple fag has a free fist or foot.
Werd to your mudda
This is actually a disadvantage of the LGPL license to Apple. Because of the viral licensing in the LGPL, they have to have a compatible license for their browser components. They quite likely do identify each copy individually. The problem is that instead of saying, "Don't distribute or we'll sue your ass into the ground," they are forced to say, "Don't distribute or we won't give it to you again."
That happens a couple of times and it still gets out, they have no option but to not distribute if they want to preserve their versions between releases.
This just helps to show how software piracy/"leaking" trickles down and hurts everyone -- from the company, to the developers, to the beta testers, to Joe Average.
I think, therefore, I'm smarter than our president.
When the apple is ripe, it will fall. --Irish proverb
[
and one of my friends was just bitching about the lack of tabbed browsing in safari, oh well guess he is going to have to use Camino (tm) then.
I hate sigs.
Why not publicly release nightly betas, so users can post feedback on development as with BugZilla?
Quality expectations are different for Apple than from many other developers. I suspect this is at least part of the reason. Not to mention all the journalists that would descend upon such a thing to pick apart every release.
Users don't expect the nightlies to be perfect
Normal users don't, Mac users do. They take it personally if there's a bug in a piece of software -- like Apple is after them specifically.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Who is going to inherit your throne when you finally succumb to AIDS?
This the the equivalent of Jesus bitch smacking all the disciples 'cause Peter was a little to loud in his preaching. Hopefully one day Apple will realize fanatics who leak information about their products should be encouraged. After all, any press is good press, especially if you have a demonstrably inferior product.
-dameron
But they are still making beta's available to the public, just not every single beta. I imagine that their public beta releases (which seem to be based on more or less completing a new feature) will stay steady, just like they have been so far, and just like the X11 betas.
Far too many people here are confusing the seeding program with the public betas, and blowing this way out of proportion.
Is it really to hard to build in and unique ID. This is unix, you make a script that does it for you. Then you have that script mail the build to eveyone. They don't know and if it gets leaked blamo.
Ok you don't want to email eveyone. You can do the same with a down load. You have eveything to be linked but one file and that you compile with the ID. When someone logs on and downloads, it compiles that file and links the app, there it has the ID in it again.
It would be nice if the post gave some indication of what Safari was, or included some relevant links for background. Instead, the guy who wrote this post just assumes I know what he's talking about when he says "Safari".
The only Safari I know of is O'Reilly's online books service, but I somehow doubt that's related.
many game developers take when using a seed program.
All seeds are digitally signed in one or more ways, so that when the seed is found on the internet, the guilty party can be identified and removed from the program.
Another case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
(This is meant as a legitimate question, since I know virtually nothing about Darwin.)
I can see a bunch of neat things in the windowmanager (and underlying graphics API), but is there anything particularly interesting about the base Darwin OS that would merit using it over, say, Linux or FreeBSD?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Not only the v62, 64 and 67 leaked out.
I saw v65 too.
There are many Safari users who use those v62-v67. Why? Because they believe the new versions will resolve some issues.
Just give out the nightly builds like Chimera / Camino does. Those Safari users using the unreleased versions will enjoy the nightly builds and help fixing and finding the things that need still adjusting in Safari.
Anyone remembers Steve releasing Safari in MWSF? "Open source" ...
For any Apple seeding program, the people receiving the seeds are under NDA.
I just love the attitude that says that it's just OK to violate an NDA, but that the [L]GPL is sacrosanct and should never be violated.
Sheesh.
No, sharing stuff based on KDE is bad, very bad. Three smacks with a wet noodle for defying your NDA and you are fired. Be greatful, oh so greatful for people who ask you to purchase what others give freely out of a sense of real comunity. Everything is ruined now, Apple will have to stick to IE. This is too wierd, I must have misunderstood something.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It may or may not conform to GNU's idea of 'free'... and we can argue back and forth about whether that's basically because GNU has always been determined to hate Apple, from day one, and will always be, no matter what Apple does.
But it doesn't matter, because he didn't say 'free'. Not as in beer, not as in speech, not as in political prisoners.
No, he said 'open source'. And, why lookie here... Apple's license is on the official list of 'open source licenses'.
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/
So stop with the trashing already. He said it was open source, it is open source.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
A little knowledge of human nature and a smattering of statistics should tell you that this was almost guaranteed to happen, no matter what precautions (statutory or technological) were set against it.
Is Apple stupid for thinking this wouldn't happen, or did they plan on it?
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
The site which distributes secret ones here is appleroom sanmonweb
This is the first time i've heard of the project, does anyone have a description of what the project is all about?
Thanks in advance
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
For a beta that's really alpha or dev (I thought the definition of beta was "All features in, bug fixes only"), I don't really understand why only certain "beta" releases are acceptable for the general public to use.
Either it's a public "beta" or it's not. Which is it?
Jory
This sucks. I have received no significant updates. I have tons of problems with it. And people out there are getting seeds and leaking them?
Man, I feel boned.
I think Apple is bungling this project very badly.
Your 100% correct.
"Your 100% correct" what? C'mon, the suspense is killing me!
Is slashdot down, or have the editors diesd, because the last submission was on the 22nd.
Tragek
It would hurt MS on the desktop of home users - wait, no it wouldn't. Home users get their copy of Windows for all but free(tm) with the purchase of their PC.
All in all, the desktop monopoly doesn't do much for Microsoft, other than provide cheap training.
It certainly wouldn't hurt business. Companies who use it can either pay, or simply aren't important to Microsoft's sustained economic well-being.
Re: Free training. It's nice for MS, but ultimately, unnecessary. People will use what their boss instructs them to use, or they'll have a visit from Mr. Pink Slip.
Okay, a copy of the first tab-enabled seed magically found its way to my computer, and I played with it for awhile, but finally decided to stick with the official beta for my main browsing. Then, of course, I hear about this one, and it finds its way to my computer (amazing, really, its like my Mac reads my mind and downloads things I want without my permission!) But the Debug menu doesn't list tabbed browsing anymore!
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
The GPL says:
So, distributing a derivitave work of Konqueror under any restrictions beyond those in the GPL is a violation of the KDE folks copyrights.
What gives?
-Peter
Yeah, that's what I meant, should have been more specific.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
An alternative, given the fact that pre-release builds are frequent, is to time-limit each build to (say) a month-- that way, "it works for me" won't apply after that, because the user will *have* to upgrade.
Did you hear it passing coverage of the 'war on terror'. Stick it up your ass fuck face.
you whiney little bitch. Apple sucks ass and you need something to busy yourself with.
If they buy a new computer whenever the next "must have" windows comes out they do.
Most of the ones I've installed for friends and family tends to live quite a lot longer, most ordinary home users aren't on the bleeding edge. You can usually run the next two "releases" (e.g. win95-98-me) until it gets impossible even for the unsavy home user.
I'd say the lock in at home is a major factor in the continued lock in at work. Not unlike how Nokia played their cards right by marketing to teen-agers, when Ericsson stayed with the corporate demographic. The sons and daugheters of the captains of industry ran around with cooler mobiles than their dads, a situation that ultimately couldn't (and didn't) last long.
Stefan Axelsson
If KHTML would be distributed exclusively under the GPL license, Apple would have to provide any code for released software that links against KHTML.
KHTML must be using LGPL (or at least something similar).
I think it is quite interesting that people recommend that Apple should have embedded watmermarks, unique identifcation, steganography and other stuff in the beta download to identify who leaked the copy.
Isn't this the same posters that normally oppose DRM? :-)
Can someone tell me if it's worth switching from FreeBSD to MacOS X? Most importantly, what will I lose, if anything? I have remote FreeBSD servers and want to know if it's viable to develop for them on MacOS X.
Not that there are many of either :-(
But that's what my server logs show.
Safari's front-end (lickability, bookmarking, etc)
You enjoy licking brushed metal? Oh, man...
Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
Why hasnt slashdot updated since 8:49p yesterday.. hehehe
Werd to yer boifriend Steve.
The problem with code leaks of betas from Apple is the fact that they are realeasing code with the Apple name on it. With the Apple name on the product means that should meet standards that apple wants to put on it product. So is unstable betas are released it could hurt the company because the unstable betas will seem like the product is not being improved from the stable betas. (which developers can understat that fact, some time to fix a problem you may have to break some code and refix it later). But unlike the *nix people. The Apple Comunity is a wider range of people and a lot of them understand what a beta is but if they keep getting newer betas and each newer beta has more bugs in it and not less. They will feel turned off from the product and when it is released they would probably not get it becuase they would be fed up with all the bugs in the beta version.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I'd be very disallusioned if I was the guy who went to the plate and tried to convince management that the seed program could work.
I can imagine going to my management and saying "let's make nightly builds available". Management, whose job is to protect the company, would be (naturally) cautious. But with convicing, perhaps a limited "seed" build to select developers would be an excellent first step.
"These are people who believe in Open Source and Apple", I'd argue.
But after this fiasco, clearly I'd be wrong. And my management would walk away with the idea that open source developers cannot be trusted in this fashion.
LGPL is viral, you utter moron. It allows linking of proprietary code. That's why they don't have to open source the whole browser. It still affects the terms of distribution. Let me explain for people like you who are very dumb.
Browser components that are modifications of LGPL source files or derived from LGPL sources are covered under the LGPL or a compatible source license. That covers "browser components" like I said, but not the whole browser.
Anything that is statically linked to LGPL code has to have a compatible distribution license. Idiots like you aren't allowed to stop the distribution of binaries generated from LGPL code. The same applies to any dynamically linked binaries that are packaged atomically. Just so it's clear, I mean atomically in the sense of indivisible, not some stupid mutation nonsense such as produced you.
Thus, even though the source code of parts of Apple's Safari browser are closed, they still can't restrict redistribution of it. So your very limited knowledge is completely inapplicable to the situation at hand.
dude, put the pipe down and step away.... "linux killed Be", I think not, Be was a desktop OS, linux wasn't even close then. And "Apple is going out of business", oh I've heard that one about a thousand times before... like every year for the last 15...
face it they are here to stay, they are the porsche of computers, while your playing with your little honda....
My name is Michael Sims; I was horny. I was 19 years old and I was a gay linux twink. I also was still ... some thing. It
living with my mother & her husband after having blown outta college
with a GPA so low that you can't get it by just not showing up, you
actually have to work to get it *that* low!
I had sucked my way in to a job at VAlinux. ($20k,
salaried! Woohoo!)
It was mid-spring and lusciously warm, as spring goes, and I was
going nuts. The neighbor kid who looked like a brick shit house,
hung, dumb, 18-year-old mac zealot, but was only really 14 (barely!) had
been out front wearing football scrimmage shorts (you know, the ones
that lace up the crotch) and nothing else, tossing a football with his
little brother and all I could do was watch. Trollaxor was so redneck
straight it reeked, but had a body that was built to be used.
Unfortunately I knew he only used it on girls.
That was 3 hours ago, just before sunset and I still hadn't had a
moments peace to yank my crank, between my mom yelling for me, the
idiot she was married to wandering around aimlessly, and my sister
coming in and out and in and out. I was near exploding from the semen
build up and testosterone overload.
I decided action had to be taken. Yelling some lame ass excuse as I
hustled out the door, I dove in the p.o.s. Nova I owned and tore outta
there as fast as I could without attracting the attention of the local
small town cop.
Now I wasn't anything great, but I had enough
wasn't cutes, it wasn't hots, it was - let's just call it 'looks', to
get the attention of some of the right people, some of the right time.
Dark hair that was growing out (just below shoulder length), tall
(over 6'2"), and lanky (145lbs on a good day), I had a fair package
(7"-ish) and kept it wrapped tight in string bikinis and thongs I
liked to wear. Usually 501's that were form fitting, and a tee shirt,
and I would prowl.
Tonight I wanted fucked! That simple, that plain, I wanted a fat,
long, thick, cock shoved up my ass *hard*.
I hit the interstate and rolled north a dozen miles to the rest area
that was there, where I had blown a few of the boys from the juco
north of here or a few cocks from the college boys that attended the
school south of here. Toss in a couple of the odd travelers, and I
had gotten to know this place pretty well. Its funny, that was before
the Internet had really gotten strong. I stopped by there the other
day and hung out for a half hour and the only action that I found was
legit travelers and so on. Ah, you can't go back... but I digress.
I pull in to the rest stop, hopped out, locked up my p.o.s. & made a
circuit to see who was what. Nothing to be seen, but on my way back,
a new player pulled in. He's got a faded tan escort looking thing and
when he gets out he also has my full, total, complete attention.
FUCK, he was gorgeous! Young, maybe 19 or 20 like me, a little
shorter, tight built body, dirty blond hair that was fantastic, and he
begged to be used for pleasure. He walked into the men's side and I
followed as soon as I figured he wasn't there for the water.
Inside, I found him primping in front of the mirror, so I tried to
act cool, thinking that maybe he wasn't cruising, but instead just
taking a minute to check his look, but after he was done, he came over
to the pisser beside mine and took a stand, too.
I glanced, he glanced, I glanced, *we* glanced and it was electric!
Oh. My. Gawds!
"Wanna," he asked with jerk of his head.
Oh yeah, I 'wanna' bad, I thought, "Yeah," was all I could manage,
nodding like a back window Chihuahua.
"Wait a few seconds, then follow me in my car after you get out
there," he said, stuffing his cock back in and zipping up. I didn't
care if he was going to hell for a room, I was all his and was going
to follow him for sure.
Well, we pulled outta
while your playing with your little honda
That made no sense.
Some people make no sense.
Anyone know where I can download a copy? *snicker*
-psy
What will they think of next? ;-)
Someone please tell me why its even newsworthy?
Or why apple would even care it was leaked?
Its just a browser.. Sheesh.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
When it a non-Beta version of Safari expected?
... and release it as a projectbuilder tarball.
;)
It'd make a great 'example' for coders to get familiar on, and Apple could take advantage of a large pool of folks who like browser innovations but also want to take advantage of OSXisms to make the most airwolf browser possible.
I mean, c'mon, what do they have in there that isn't a) trivial to do in Moz/Camino, or b) reliant on Aqua/Cocoa-proprietary APIs? They're not making money on it, they could even use the GPL MySQL-style, where they control the 'official' and 'officially-supported' product, giving credit but requiring unlimited license for inclusion in the official product.. Are they ashamed of the code quality, paranoid, or just short-sighted? (mercy, I HOPE they're not so dumb as to think they can _make money_ by _selling_ safari shrinkwrap?)
(not that _I've_ done much on OSX myself, but maybe it'd be easier to do more if there were better documentation and examples.. Or maybe I'm just fsckin lazy and unmotivated
ps: when will Apple update its HTML display frameworks to use the KHTML renderer across ALL HTML apps? The HTML widget that Sherlock uses chokes on obtuse and complicated CSS, which Safari even now can handle..
Okay, I think some of you need a little education on how Apple operates. /Applications/Safari.app/Content/MacOS/ and typing in the command 'strings Safari | grep June'. You will see two line in the binary that read "Safari Beta will expire on June 30, 2003.
First off, the whole beta program fro Safari is/was managed by a small team. Second, that team has a goal to release either the next public beta or the full 1.0 release by June 30th, 2003. You can verify this by opening up the terminal and navigating to
Safari Beta expired on June 30, 2003."
This means that they are on a deadline and have a lot of work to do. A lot of people who have posted here are suggesting that they should do MORE work and add easter eggs/stenographics/blah-blah/security tracking to the seeded releases. Now you tell me, does that sound like a good way to reach a deadline? Especially one that is hard coded into the binary of the public beta? Now you could argue that putting in an arbitrary deadline is a "bad idea" or whatever, but I think it's a great way to keep a project both on track and managable. Pressure to perform and all that rot.
The other thing a lot of people are apparently misguided in thinking is that Apple was naive about releasing these developer seeds. For this you have to understand a little bit about Apple's corporate culture and social philosophy. While you may not agree with it, I and a lot of others, think it's a great experiment and helps move our culture along. To understand thier philosophy, just look at Apple's public stance on music piracy. They have put in place some very basic and easily defeatable mechanisms with the iPod that prevents users from sharing music freely with thier iPod. They have not completely crippled your ability to share music, however they do put s little sticker on the iPod's that says "Don't steal music." They have also publicly stated in many debates about music piracy that it is a social problem, not a technological one, and that technology will not solve the issue. So in that statement, they have made reasonably clear that they don't really want to spend a lot of time working on something that they see as inevitable.
They also want to trust those that they sign up for the seed programs. If you can't trust your testers to give you good reliable feedback, you are wasting your time and effort and you won't get your project completed or your bug fixed.
Now the thing with the Safari seeds is that they gave the seed users 3 chances, basically 3 strikes, your out. After the 3rd strike, they pulled the program because they saw it as more detrimental that useful. I'm sure they started getting an unmanagable amount of negative feedback or duplicate bug reports, or even worse, useless ones because all these people that downloaded the seeds that were not part of the seed program probably started sending in incomplete bug reports or even worse, stupid things like "the thingy with the buttons, doesn't work on my puter, fix it now assholes", or something to that effect. This means that those managing the bug database and trying to glean useful information or even just track any real bugs now have to sift through thousands of shit reports. Needle in haystack time.
Any of this sound reasonable.
And finally, the most telling thing would be the reports on rumor sites. Apple hates rumor sites. They are counter productive to thier business (believe it or now, they are). If someone reads on a rumor site that such and such feature is missing/broken/doesn't work or whatever on a rumor site, and bases thier judgement on that rumor sites word (I know, stupid people, but it does happen, I have plenty of ad hom proof), they end up loosing a potential customer, or thier market image gets tarnished.
I don't know about most of you, but these are the reasons that I see Apple's decision to pull the plug as both necessary and smart on Apple's part. Argue all you want about "the way it should be" or whatever, but these are the realities of this business. If you
Don't Ask Questions. I don't know the answers and even if I did I wouldn't tell you.
So I guess its safe to say Apple takes whatever it can from OSS, uses it for its marketing BS, and then does the minimum in return. Under the GPL Apple is required to post those changes, so don't act like Apple is doing a favor.
On the other hand, Safari is free to the end user. It is to promote a whole concept and idea of using a Mac. Movies & Music don't have a "unique, take this for free, and buy our better package to use the free thing we just gave you." kind of product.
Apple also makes iDVD, iMovie, iTunes all free with machine purchase (iTunes is free to all Mac Users). To me any app that is an Apple brand app should be polished & very stable. These builds are being seeded for developers & developers only. Apple wasallowing customization of Safari for those that wanted to do that. However, people were already getting there hopes up for tabbed browsing, when form what I have read, was actually a third party developed function, and that Apple really had no plans to release that function in the next build. Now, if they don't have it in, some will be disappointed.
I had posted a previous comment, when the weblog was published on SlashDot, about tabbed browsing coming to Safari. I made the case that features like that should be reserved for other browsers, so that Apple can allow differentiation, and others to keep market share. While minutely, tabbed browsing is also a function that will have to be explained and supported to the laymen. I personally find tabbed browsing confusing and I am a 19 year Apple user and Authorized Technician, and registered developer. Also, minutely, it adds code bloat.
To bring all this back together, Apple doesn't want DRM or even demanding control of the apps they release to developers and then to the public. They do want consistency and "polished" feel.
A developer signs a non disclosure agreement - I didn't sign any agreement with any of the file sharing services. Apple KNOWS which developers have Safari. Anyone they don't know about, got it from someone they DO know. The developer that gave the copy away is breaking non disclosure + breaking Apple's requirement for developers to follow appearance and coding guidelines. (Apple is (rightfully so) very strict on code bloat.)
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Gotta love small minded people and their lack of ability to use complex words.
Or was that too complex for ya?
Crawl back under the pot infested rock you came from, no one really cares about you.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The Safari beta seed program had to stop sometime, because Apple surely wants users to pay for Safari in the 10.3 release of MacOS X. Public leaks is as good an excuse as any to stop now, with the added benefit that it helps elicit sympathy for Apple.
The Apple PR machine rolls on!
I was really hoping that the quality of Apple's UIs would get better especially since Bud Tribble came back to Apple. The whole upside down tab thing in Safari is unbelievable.
Since we aren't going to have an "official" public beta on which to provide feedback, we might as well say something now...
Hit the "bug" button or select "Report Bugs to Apple..." in the "Safari" menu.
"Argue all you want about "the way it should be" or whatever, but these are the realities of this business. If you think you can do it better, feel free to start up a company and do this yourself. Otherwise go play with the freely available Darwin code and contribute something useful instead of criticizing Apple for taking care of thier business interests (which, after all, is what they are there to do)."
I think, I will. I'll call it..."Microsoft"
Yeah, I understand that's a joke. Some people out there, unfortunately don't. Tha larger picture is not so funny at all.
You have the whole situation reversed. It's Apple's actions that are reprhensible not the developer. The developer did what comes naturally. Apple is working hard to limit our freedoms. It's not morally wrong to want to share useful things, it's morally wrong to make things that are useful and keep others from having them.
It's natural to want to share software. Software is as close a thing to ideas and speech as tangible object can come. Like an idea, it is easy to copy and costs the original owner nothing when others make use of it. Good software, like a catchy tune, is something people want to share.
Apple has not, "placed their trust in a group of developers." Apple extorted a promise from those developers in return for the chance to see and work on a beautiful thing. In return for that, these developers could not share their work or that of others. Because someone violated the master's will, Apple has cracked the whip. You don't need to use whips on people you trust, you need them for your slaves..
This is a minor incidence of something Apple has done before. All closed source software houses make this deal with their developers. Apple has gone out of it's way to shut down other people's independent work as well. Viewed from the free software perspective, this is nothing new or surprising, though it still stings to see it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Apple's software quality have been admirable but that should not and does not keep Apple from sharing. Apple has adopted a BSD core, which maintians it's excellence though openness. That Apple has adopted this software over their own shows the superiority of the open way, regardless of what they might say.
Mac [expect perfection]. They take it personally if there's a bug in a piece of software -- like Apple is after them specifically.
Once again, software quality is not a negator of freedom. Mac users, like all users of closed source comercial software, expect all of the details to be taken care of for them and the things they buy to work. It's entirely possible for the user to make up their own mind about relative stability of software. Debian's stable, unstable, and testing sections are an excellent example of how quality and freedom can co-exist. The stable release of Debian has fewer bugs than most comercial software. Users can now chose to load up certian unstable or even testing programs into a stable set up. Surely Apple can match that feat in a modular way with a silly browser. Denying your users even that basic freedom is a bad sign from Apple.
This is sad. Apple does have a wonderful platform. Their developers and designers have made real contributions. Why should such a talented company be so afraid to open up?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
...a break. There are plenty of reasons not to release open source software each time a line of code is changed. It may fix some critical bug, but it may also introduce a new, more catastrophic one. You don't want that getting out in the wild with any pretense of being an "official" release.
;-)
Most open source projects already allow access to CVS or developer "snapshots" with the various caveats in place. No need for more than this, and if a particular project doesn't wish to give such access, it is well within their rights to make that decision.
At least you're not arguing that all code should be freely available, as the trolls above are. You recognize the legitimacy of closed source software, and I commend you for that.
God Damn, somebody mod this the rest of the way up. It DESERVES it! Well said, man.
shut up fuckhead. you fuck. you are a know nothing apple zealot pig bitch. you got that? be it 1 day, 1 week, 1 year, you are always spouting and espousing BULLSHIT. you lie, you know nothing, you loser. you fat sexless pig. shut you fucking poor, parent fucking greasy pedophile fucking cakehole, assface.
Pak chooie unf !!!!!! Pak chooie unf unf unf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are the Apple Zealots We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are the Apple Zealots We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are the Apple Zealots We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
I am the pusher apple-robot I shove around the blind people We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
I am the shover apple-robot I push bread down their throats We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We are the Apple Zealots
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We are the Apple Zealots
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We protect you.
Apples have a terrible low power * We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks Apples has a terrible low power Do you have stairs in your house?
Do you have stairs in your house? We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
Pushing will protect you Pushing will protect you
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
That is incorrect Shoving will protect you Shoving will protect you
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
Do not trust the shover apple-robot
Shoving is the answer
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
Do not trust the pusher apple-robot
He is malfunctioning **
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are the Apple Zealots
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We are the Apple Zealots
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We protect you.
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
Shoving is the answer Humans must be shoved They must go down the stairs
You are mistaken Pushing is the answer Humans must be pushed They must go down the stairs
Please go stand by the stairs So I can protect you
Go stand by the stairs Steve Slobs is protected
Steve Slobs has gone down the stairs
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
From the terrible prospect of doing useful things
We are the Apple Zealots
Steve Slobs is protected Steve Slobs is protected At the bottom of the stairs
I am the pusher apple-robot Shoving is the answer I will shove Steve Slobs Outside into the snow
I am the shover apple-robot Pushing is the answer I will push snow On top of Steve Slobs
I am better than the pusher apple-robot I am superior I am better than the shover apple-robot He is inferior
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
Pushing is the answer Shoving is the answer I have pushed many humans I have shoved many more
The humans are protected Humans have gone down the stairs The humans are protected At the bottom of the stairs
We are the Apple Zealots
We are here to get ripped off and act like jerks
Our mission is complete
* "low power"; meaning not low power consumption, but rather low power as in fails to compete with any other CPU arch by any metric save one useless Altivec optimized Photoshop filter.
** " He is malfunctioning" Regarding the apple-robot, typically any and all Apple hardware, including the Apple-Robots sung about here, malfunction terribly, and erratically.
idiots like you tevis money? you are a unrepentant fuckwit.