Slashdot Mirror
Maine to Launch Internet Sex-Offender Registry
scubacuda writes "On Monday, Maine Today reports that officials plan to put info about the states 1,200 registered sex offenders on the Internet to allow residents to easily determine if a convicted offender lives in their neighborhood. Some jurisdictions - including Portland, South Portland, Saco and Kennebec County - already post sex-offender information on the Internet. But the new site will cover *all* sex offenders registered in Maine, and will include their names, ages and birth dates, where they live, where they work or attend school, and which offense they were convicted of. Photographs will soon be posted, as well."
The State of Texas has had this for some time now.. gives their picture, their crime, vital stats, etc ,etc.
h .cfm
http://records.txdps.state.tx.us/soSearch/soSearc
I remember looking at New Mexico's online registry when I lived there. Didn't recognize anyone :)
Someone commits one offence and for the rest of their lives their life isnt the public's hands? I guess if you can't do the time don't do the crime, but still...
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
Wisconsin for example already has this. You can enter a ZIP code to locate all sex offenders in your area. Actually, a sex offender recently moved into our otherwise quiet neighborhood. I found this out first through the website above, and a week later a town meeting was held about the very same person.
This is not a troll, but because of the sexual subject matter, it might look like one. How many of us are going to be surprised when we realize that nice old person down the road raped a bunch of kids? This registry is going to light up every neighborhood because it's built on the false premise that you can live in a neighborhood without sexual predators. These creeps are everywhere!! Maybe there are more than 1200 released convicted offenders, and they likely live all over the place, but what about the ones that get away with it every day?
/sarcasm
How many evil clergy are going to be skipped from this? We had a clergy scandal in my hometown for some time that went on in plain view of a local church, and they covered it up! The poor kids eventually got some justice, but only after a decade of systematic abuses.
With the right steps, this database could save lives. But it could slowly be abused by the system, or by unscrupulous people. Controls must be in place to prevent any foul deeds, but are they going to far? Let's bring out the branding irons, then? Give 'em all a brand that says "SEX OFFENDER" right to the forehead.
In all seriousness, how effective can this database be? Maybe it'll save lives. I don't know.
all the evil hackers
"Be careful or be roadkill" - Calvin
Obviously, intense security and so forth...
But what happens if(when) somebody hacks it and posts the info of somebody they dislike? Bad mojo if you ask me..
fortune -o
So who wants to start a pool on when the first sex offender will be lynched?
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
http://www.dps.state.ak.us/nSorcr/asp/search.asp There hasn't been too much negative feedback about it except a lawsuit from 2 registered offenders who complained about having to be on the list even though their sentenances were completely served before the law creating the registry was enacted.
Whilst I guess that the people doing this will counter with "you give up your rights when you take it upon yourself to play with little kids bottoms", it kinda flies right in the face of concepts of rehabilitation, etc. Does the status of 'sex offender' have a timeout, or is it a lifetime thing, once convicted?
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I don't think it's such a good idea. You got nutters out there bombing doctors of abortion clinics, I'm sure there are loonies out there who wouldn't mind killing convicted sex offenders. Afterall they _did_ the time, and I don't think it will give people who really _do_ want to better their lives a fair deal.
Also it gives people a false sense of security.. Who's to say that a registered sex offender doesn't take a weekend holiday to another state to rape and kill? And you thought you were safe in a neighbourhood without any sex offenders..
Isn't anyone worried about vigilantes using this information to track down and assault these offenders (regardless if it's merited)?
Is to segregate (because that's what you're doing, make no mistake about the consequences of this) and completely isolate a group of people.
... euhm ... cut off every legal option for a life they have and they'll ... get out and die ?
Expose everyone who's ever had any brush with justice at all, so they can't get any job at all. Then, without job and without a life they'll
What exactly do you think this will do ?
...you'll get a most sincere policy about having your life ruined.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
When a paper in Britain started printing details about paedophiles, loads of people went rampaging, and even vandalized some paediatrician's house. (Though maybe that just says something about the Welsh.)
Why is there special treatment for sex offenders? Generally, people can't look up and see which convicted burglars live near them, for example. If someone is so much of a risk to society that people need telling about them, then they shouldn't be free in the first place.
It's sad that the authorities try and dress this up as somehow good - when the real motivation behind it is disgraceful.
Standard disclaimer: sex offenders deserve whatever punishment the law deems fit. But, and this is what is forgotten, IF the authorities deem them fit to be released from custody, then it's because (or should be because) they are no longer a threat. If they are a threat, then keep them incarcerated. Don't let them out and then pretend it's OK to publish their name, address, etc. It's hypocritical.
And why stop at sex offenders? Say I have no kids, but an expensive car? Shouldn't I be able to know that the guy next door was convicted of stealing cars? I'm not equating car theft with sex offences, but I do believe that the law should treat all people equally.
If a sex offender ia a threat, keep the bastard in jail. Don't let him out and think that by posting his details on the internet that all will be well. All it does is victimize reformed offenders (who do exist...) and encourage vigilantes - neither of these is good.
I hope the state of Maine also doubled the size of their Information Security department, as this will be a prime target for malicious hackers.
Don't like someone? Just add them to the database and get the word out. They're ruined. This is new, uncharted, and dangerous territory, Maine.
RD
New York's registry requires that people using the search enter their own address. I think this might be a new feature, last time I saw the registry I don't remember having to give up my info.
Without commenting specifically on whether or not this is appropriate, consider that we don't go to this sort of length in response to a murder conviction.
"You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
These registries have the potential to ruin people who should never have been marked to begin with. While many sexual predators probably deserve such a punishment, what about the teens who are convicted "sex offenders" simply because their (consenting) girlfriend's parents found out about the level of intimacy in the relationship, and pressed charges (against the wishes of the girl)? I know it sounds farfetched, but every so often you hear of these cases which, on an ethical and moral basis should never go to trial, but because of the wishes of the parents, results in a permanent black mark on the young man's record.
Seems quite interessing, why such registry will be restricted only to the *sex* crimes? Something went terribly wrong during clash of the left-wing political correctness and right-wing neoconservative bashing. America seems quite mad on this field; like it could be The Most Important Thing in Life?
or maybe it is...?
And, where is nice old rule of equality before legal system?
There's sex offenders and then there's sex offenders. I have no problem with a guilty as sin child sodomizer being plastered all over this thing. But you also hear of 17 year olds being charged by overzealous DAs for being with their 16 year old girlfriends. Such "offenders" will be lumped in with the child fuckers and corpse zombies.
This thing doesn't sound it recognizes there are levels of sex offense.
Ok, this is NOT a defense of sex offenders, but we should consider that everyone who has been convicted of a "sex offense" might not be the evil, child-molesting 70-year-old priest we all think they are.
Remember, if an 18 year old (high school senior) sleeps with his 16 year old girlfriend (high school sophomore) and happens to get caught, he could be labeled a sex offender.
How'd you like to have your picture posted on the web and have everyone know your life's details for eternity because you were a horny high school kid who did what scores of horny high school kids around the world do? Do you think the public is going to say "oh, well, he's the OK kind of sex offender...no worries"?
I grew up in Maine. The state is really, really small. I live in New York now, and anytime I meet someone from Maine, I find that I'm normally connected to them by 1 degree of separation. I also grew up in a small town. News there travels very, very fast. (I was 11 years old and I gave a kid the finger as I got off a school bus... my mother knew about it when I walked in the door 15 minutes later). It does not matter if the news is true, either. Once a piece of gossip gets out, it spreads faster than a celebrity sex video on the internet. Although I am a big advocate for privacy, I think this might in same cases help the sex offenders. If their crimes are easily accessible to the public, it helps stop the wild stories that could evolve around them. Yes, what these people were convicted of is TERRIBLE, but it's nothing compared to what a town full of gossipers can do with a nugget of near-truth. Living as a convicted sex offender is a difficult thing, but hopefully this will keep some of the smaller towns in Maine in perspective so that these individuals can be reintroduced to society. The above is a very weighted statement. I seriously welcome varying viewpoints, but please don't flame me for being open minded.
I'd say go for it, after all the sex offenders are the worst kind of scum.
Then I remebered the jokes that me and my wife made during our visit to US. She's been 17 and I was 28 at the time and we were joking that our marriage might have been perfectly legal in Europe (in most European countries 15 is legal age) but not there.
In US I would probably be considered pedophile or at least "statutory rape" despite her being legally my wife in Poland.
So with this kind of law standards, posting the list of "sex offenders" online looks scary...
The Coward
No, it isn't terrible. It's simply providing greater public access to public information. Part of the penalty for being a criminal is lugging around that label for the rest of your life.
No guarantees can be offered that any given sexual predator will not strike again. While there's also no guarantee that any convicted criminal-- for example, a bank robber -- won't strike again, few of us live in a bank, but most of us live in a house with children.
Bottom line: If your children lived next door to a convicted pedophile, why wouldn't you want to know?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Not a troll here. My honest opinion. Ok someone allready said in this article that "doing the time because they did the crime" this then makes their rehabilitation not possible. Honestly if you look at some of the penalties for sexual crimes, there frankly PATHETIC. Most of these people should never be released from prison let alone be allowed to live in a neighbour hood where every single house hold has at least 1 child. I think the police have to make sure that no1 is running around harrassing these people, but on that same note.. if you rape a woman, child or even a man, you don't have the right to hide that from all the neighbours. They have a right to know, just as you have a right to be dragged back into jail when you re-convict. Don't get me wrong, people make mistakes and some people are able to go on with their lives without doing/commiting the same acts again. However I can't seem to find the exact number here but I believe its somewhere around 96% of all child molesters re-convict. Perhaps I'm off a bit, but it really makes you wonder if a) the system works b) they should be locked up for good c) jail time is too little, they need treatment and life long seclusion from the world??
my $0.02
No, this is
I recall that when this sort of thing first appeared in the states, the databases were hosted on NT4/IIS4 systems that were unpatched and vulnerable to the RDS database attack.
Basically anyone with rudimentary knowledge that was freely available on the net at the time could feasibly insert new records into the database.
Couple this with the fact that vigilantes DO exist out there and DO kill sex offenders, this is downright irresponsible and dangerous. If these people are a danger keep them locked up - don't encourage violence.
While most of the time I tend to agree with the liberal pro-privacy posts we see on Slashdot, I think this is one case where there's justification for privacy invasion. It's restricted only to those who have committed the crime (a common complaint here is that most recent privacy invasions happen to everyone, including the by-and-large innocent public, and thus violate presumption of innocence), and it's got a built-in expiry for the truly reformed.
Just their name, photo, crime, and life history?
.. oh let me think .. oh yeh, the names of their sibblings, in case "sex crimes" is a genetic problem, and ..
Why not post their daily movements as tracked by their mobile phone? or insert a tag into them if they have no phone. People deserve to know the every movement of these ever-guilty people. This is reasonable because no court case has ever been incorrect.
And phone records too. That should be public.
and,
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Consider also qualifies you as a sex offender in Maine. For instance, if you're a 16-year-old boy who makes out with a 13-year-old girl and you get caught, you're a sex offender; your name and photo goes up on the site.
This all started when a neighbor raped and killed a little girl, and so we created the label of sex offender as a way of categorizing such people, but it's barely been ten years and already we're rounding up all kinds of people who don't come anywhere close to this kind of offense and branding them monsters.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
And what better way to say, "I need a new ID" than with the gift of a name, birthdate, address, and other personal information of a convicted felon.
I mean, who'd believe them anyway?
I'm all for sex offender registries, but I think a 'need to know' attitude should be adopted. I don't need to know the sex offenders in the next city, nevermind a completely seperate state, unless I'm visiting for an extended stay with my children, in which case those I am visiting, or the resorts/theme parks, will have access to that information.
Don't make it so easy to abuse, but don't make it so hard that it's not worth the effort for the worrywarts.
-Adam
I've seen both sides of this issue and seen that sex offenses are very hard to try from the courts standpoint. I'd like to point out to everyone that not all sex offenders are child molesters, yes, child molesters are the bottom of the bucket of socioty and should be treated as thus, but like any other form of crime, people are falsley convicted. A very close friend of mine was raped, but unfortunatly they couldn't get a conviction. The guy was loaded and the defense made the argument that she was after money, it sickened me. I wouldn't want this guy anywhere near me, and if i ever did run into him i'd probly bash his face in, but hes not on any list anywhere. On the other end of this, a guy i know at school was accused of rape, he was 18, she was underage. He was arrested in class, with much spectacle. It was all cleared up after the girls parents heard her on the phone talking about how she'd lied about the whole thing. But if they hadn't found out i hate to think what would happen to my of age african american friend in the courts system after being accused of rape by an underage white girl. His life would pretty much be over. Think about all the possible scenarios before you cry "Wont someone please think of the children!". If people are a danger they should be kept locked up, either in prison or in an institution, otherwise if they've payed their debt to society , they should be allowed to go on with their lives. As for child molseters though, people that sick dont change and should be kept under lock and key.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I know some other states have it, but it's been tried in Indiana, and it was found cruel/unusual punishment by the court system. I doubt that it will be found this in other states, seeing as they have already implemented it.
IMHO, the entire "punishment" system needs to become "reform". You have a minimum time to serve, and after that, you're not automatically released. When it is determined that you're no longer a threat to society, you're released. Other than that, you stay locked up.
It'd increase the prison population, but it would make the system work better.
The consentual sodomy case you are talking about is Lawrence v. Texas. The PRIMARY reason they fought the case all the way to the surpreme court was to stay *off* the state's list of registered sex offenders.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Yes, it's true! My rights are being violated, I swear! Oh wait...
You do a crime, you do the time and the slate is supposed to be wiped clean. Now they want to keep punishing these people for ever? Since no punishment should last that long, that should mean that there will be no jail time up front - or that they drop this stuff.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
...and there were some complaints about rights of the offenders, since the list just showed up one day. There was some dialog, but the list remained, and is being expanded.
First I want to say that sexual predators are terrible.
On the other hand what about wrong information. If the government has incorrect information. What if there is an innocent john jones whos picture shows up on the site because the mistook him for the bad john jones?
Not to mention the whole cracker problem. Put someone you don't like on the list for fun. Who cares if it ruins someone's life.
I just don't have a lot of faith in the law enforcement system and their technical ability.
Not to mention this is open season on sex offenders. Remember that statatory rape is a sexual offense. What about sodomy. Someone who commits these crime goes on the same list with repeated child molesters.
His info said he was black, but the picture says he is hispanic.
The site says he is on probabation, but it also says deceased.
Okay... hrmmmmm
I guess even if you die they expect you to do your probabtion time..
Wonder what his meeting is like with his parole officer.
How about a young man who is convicted of statutory rape with a consenting girlfriend? He's 19, she's 17 - he's listed on the net for the rest of his life. There are a hundred variations of this. What are you gonna do, explain to each of your neighbors that you were convicted of a sex crime with a woman you later married? Scary thought.
Standing on the shoulders of giants.
With so many eyes looking at the info, any hacking should be easily detected. So, I guess except for an occasional scare for a few unsuspecting people, the system should work fine.
The danger in the sytem is not really that laws will be broken to ensnare innocent people. These things are easily rectified.
The danger in the system is when people take their eyes of the legislative intention of the law, and the executive branch starts applying the law more broadly, slowly inching towards scaring, if not ensnaring, the innocent. The danger is when the law is whacked out line with what is what supposed to do. In whacking no laws need be broken. In Hacking laws are broken, but in whacking they need not be broken ...
It is the worst when the Judiciary shows a blind eye to the actions of the Executive, and refuses to call judgement on the Legislative intention and Executive implementation of the law .... Then, it is possible to scare, if not ensnare, all the good people, whom the law was framed to protect to begin with ...
I am not saying that it will happen, but in the land where the Patriot Law can be expanded the way it has to non-terrorism related issues, anything is possible...
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
Well, I guess this is a little more humane than castrating them.
where the comment ends and sig begins
And hey, I just had a great idea:
:-)
Sex Offender Text Alerts!
and an arm band. I forgot that. (or a bell if an arm band is unacceptable.)
Brilliant. You get a text message every time a sex offender is in the same geographic location as you. Then you just look around to see who's wearing an arm band
"Support our kids", and "it's unamerican to be a sex offender", and other good slogans will also be needed. This brave new world is gonna kick ass. No one will ever oppose this, "you don't support sex offenders, do you?". This will be nothing at all like a witch hunt.
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http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/states.ht m
The biggest problem with "sex crimes", specifically when it comes to pedophilia and statuatory rape, is the shame that the victim carries around with him/her. I've dated a few women who have been sexually abused by people in their family and parents' friends. It's totally sick, but they would never turn in the perpetrator, so they live with this shame and it results in distrust and dysfunction in every aspect of their lives.
Enforcement is important, but it's more important to talk about these crimes and encourage people to not feel shame if they've been a victim, seek professional help and deal with it. There are too many people who hide away with these dark secrets and the damage done after the fact makes the original action pale in comparison. Databases, tracking and harsher penalties will never help heal the damage done, which is a critical aspect of these crimes that needs to be brought to the forefront.
The idea of prison sentences is to give a punishment , telling the offender why he should better try leading a normal life.
Making a normal life permanently impossible in this manner makes the notion of a prison sentence a mockery.
If you don't want a person to be able to lead a normal life anymore, and are going to punish him for life, you could equally well kill him in the first place. A bit over the top for, say, showing a spiteful public servant your behind, but better safe than sorry, right?
You know, I wouldn't mind about the government making new laws like this, if only they would make one that *I* want.
Stupidity should be punishable by death.
Go ahead and put this information on the web. Like people have said, it is already public, they are just changing the accessibility of it. However, if people how haven't done anything else get harassed because of it, the person doing the harassing should be put to death.
Very clean and simple, that.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Reminds me of a story here in the NYC area about a year ago, about a New Jersey guy who raped and killed a 12 year old girl in 1985 and is having a tough time reassimilating with the community upon his recent release. The report kept discussing the harassment this guy was facing by the locals and how he can't get a break. But not once did the report ask the question I couldn't stop wondering - "WHY THE HELL IS THIS GUY OUT OF JAIL?!?!?!?!" There's something wrong with the criminal justice system, at least in the Northeast. Last I checked, the girl is still dead, so why is this guy walking the streets in the first place? And why is the news trying to shore up sympathy for this guy????
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
What about two 17 year olds having consentual sex? If the father presses charges the male is legally considered a sex offender and would be branded along with the rest. I have a friend in this position... it lasts for life.
Are these people are being publicly humiliated because they have committed a crime, or because they might commit a crime in the future? The fact that sex offenders are singled out seems to suggest the latter. This is a disturbing movement towards alternative philosophies of justice. Even the idea behind the "pre-crime" unit in Minority Report is less repulsive, as there seemed to be a greater probability of the anticipated crime actually taking place in that movie.
Of course, making sex-offenders ring a bell and shout "Unclean!" might work too.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
CT did this a while ago...
I remember it got challenged in the State Supreme Court... Not sure if it was struck down or whatnot.
Insert Sig Here
Why aren't taking into account whether or not the victim(s) are still dead? That would be true common sense.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
1) No one can and/or will pay to keep all these people in jail.
2) At some point these people are deemed "cured". But just like an alcoholic walking by a bar, the urge to commit wrong comes back.
I understand your point about car stealing, but I have a nice car and a 1 year old kid and I'd rather lose my car than my kid get molested. I imagine I'm not alone.
I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
Why just sex offenders? I know they are most likely to re-offend, but as a homeowner, I sure would love to be able to search and check if anyone living on my block was convicted of burglarly, for example.
Also consider the problem of people having their "friends" write a big "S" on their forehead whilst drunk etc.
It's a tricky one, but "cleansing" sounds distinctly 1930's Germany.
-- Multics
Without commenting specifically on whether or not this is appropriate, consider that we don't go to this sort of length in response to a murder conviction.
You are entirely correct. Curious, isn't it? We don't publish a registry of convicted murderers. We don't publish registries of convicted rapists, or convicted bank robbers. These are all categories of criminals much more dangerous to the general public than pedophiles, yet it is pedophiles who find their names, photos, and personal information posted on the internet.
Of course, this will only work for so long as laws requiring convicted pedophiles -- even those who have served their time and theoretically owe no burden to the State -- to provide their names and contact information to local authorities are ruthlessly enforced.
Any such system will inevitably see mission creep. Why NOT list people convicted of other serious crimes? Makes sense, doesn't it? After all, that information is public record anyway, right?
While we are at it, it makes sense that we should post information about people suspected but not convicted of crimes. After all, there's no criminal penalty here. It is just information. No worse than the rumor-mill, right? And it advances the public safety. We will limit it to those suspected of serious crimes and, yes, terrorism. Besides, in the United States, we let judges use crimes of which a defendant has been accused but not convicted in considering what punishment is appropriate when a criminal defendant has reached the sentencing stage. Why should the judges be the only ones who know?
It is just information right? And we should let information be free.
Such as information about the political groups and associations of ordinary citizens. Are you a member of a political group with radical ideas? We know now that groups like that are potentially dangerous. They produce people like Timothy McVeigh. Nobody says you can't be a member of the group; we are just saying you can't keep it a secret. Hey, we have hood laws across the South already. We have laws against secret political societies. So this is just a logical next step. Post that information. No harm, no foul, right?
Palestinians and Muslims are risky too. No harm in posting information about them. Honest people have nothing to fear when their privacy is compromised, right?
Samuel Johnson once said that patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. The protection of children has become the last refuge of fascisti. It has been the "wedge issue" used to justify sweeping restrictions on internet access in public libraries (gotta stop that child porn), an oppressive IV-D child support collection apparatus (gotta get them deadbeat dads), and any number of "public safety" statutes, which have used the safety and protection of children as a tool to build a system of social and legal controls that could easily be used for any other purpose, and which create a mindset of submission that would welcome additional restrictions for "good" purposes.
I take literally the idea that in order to protect all of us, we must protect the most unworthy among us. A convicted child molester who has served his (or more rarely her) time and whom the state has chosen to release has that most ancient of rights recognized in Anglo-American law -- the right to be left alone. That means that using public funds to create public registries containing their personal information, thus giving them a pariah status that directly contradicts the clear language and intent of the 8th Amendment's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishments, not to mention common sense, is wrong.
I fully expect someone to respond to this message with some screed about how precious children are, and how their cousin was molested, and how would you like it if someone molested YOUR kid. Know what? That's all completely beside the point. The issue is freedom and liberty, not crime. Restraints on freedom and invasions of privacy in the name
Depending on the nature of the crime it's often the case that sex offenders can't be rehabilitated. Those who know what they're doing is wrong but do it anyway, can be rehabilitated and are. Those who think what they're doing is perfectly natural, can't be. Many crimes are the same way.
So yes, it is often a lifetime long crime. The idea of the registry is to make people aware so they can take precautions. You wouldn't want to send your kids over to play at such a person's house unsupervised. "Done their time" or not. Just because someone did their time doesn't mean they're cured. It just means they appear to be cured or the state just can't legally hold them any longer for the crime they were convicted for. It has no direct corelation to not repeating the crime.
If people take that information and use it as a hit list they need to be checked into their local prison as well for a very long time.
The benefits of such a list greatly outweigh the risks. Especially considering there are no exemptions to vigilante violence against anyone for any reason.
The law doesn't care if he looked at you funny or you got his name off a list, you don't get to beat the crap out of him or worse.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Did you know an 18 year old guy with a 17 year old girl friend is a sex offender in some states? How would you like to be treated just like some rat bastard who molested a few 6 year olds because you were banging your girlfriend who was 1 month away from her 18th birthday? This could happen. You could be hounded for the rest of your life because of this exact situation.
Child molesters are evil fucks, but the government has been getting overly zealous with their definition of the crime.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Thanks for the clarification. I had no idea! :/
Of course I was just talking about actual murderers. I see plenty of cases where the murder was premeditated and yet somehow the perp walks the streets before they die, while the victim never gets that opportunity.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
NC has had this for a while too:
m
http://sbi.jus.state.nc.us/DOJHAHT/SOR/Default.ht
Overall I consider it a good idea, as I am personally not very lenient when it comes to the rights of convicted felons.
However, I was shocked to discover that a guy I knew during high school and worked with during high school summers was on the list. Even his picture. Later I discovered that he had been hooking up with a 17-year old girl in a mutually consenting relationship (some even said *she* pursued him) and he was I think 27, when her father found out, reported him, and pressed charges. Kind of a shitty deal for him, and made me start to wonder about current laws of consent. In a world where kids know all about sex from the Internet and Britney, and 40% of 16 year old girls are not virgins, is it just to charge an older guy for becoming involved with a significantly younger girl, even though she's no longer innocent and may have been just as much the instigator of the relationship as he was? The assumption of the law is that the older male is, by nature of experience, hormones, and ability to manipulate the young and naive, the instigator. But if that assumption is incorrect, should the law still apply?
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Now they can easily locate a scape-goat in the area of their crime for the general public and the police.
Imagine if the poor guy's only alibi is "I've watched the Superbowl last night".
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
The registry protects kids and only prevents them from getting jobs that involve kids.
And this is only done for sex crimes. Especially one's against children.
And besides, companies already can find out if you've been convicted of a felony which a sex crime is.
People need to get over the fact that some actions prevent you from being a "normal" member of society. When you abuse children in such a way you've just earned the distrust of society and it will rightfully take a very long time to earn that trust back. And there's no reason for society as a whole to trust you.
If some people refuse to ever trust you again, tough. Find people that do and make damn sure you never break that trust again.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
While I dont think its cool to be banging a 17 year old when your 27, i dont think it should be a felony either. But in our prosecute at any cost purtanical society, its a bad risk to take. About 2 years ago i had the chance to nail a REALLY hot 16 year old, and i decided to not go through with it, even though California is a damn liberal state. All it takes is a pissed off parent and a ambitious prosecuter, and your just plain fucked.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
The land where criminals stay criminals, and everybody helps them not become normal citizens again.
Will code a sig generator for food
but all the kids will be able to surf it in school.
Let's say you're a 14-year-old whose fantasy is an older lover. Hey, the state now provides a dating list! And let's say having found your older lover you'd like to really get an income happening. Back to the state-provided dating list, with your lover to watch your back. Now you want to sell videos of your dates to people in other states? Once again, state-provided lists to the rescue!
The states posting these lists are facilitating perversion and crime against children.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Im hoping that Americans arnt as dumb as certain British people but they might want to explain in a little foot-note that "pediatrician" is not the same as "pediophile", that should avoid the odd doctor getting beaten up.
This really is a stupid idea thats going to cause allot of vigilante violence and not even to the offenders, it wont take more than a month before someone is mistaken.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This way they still have a life and can atone for their offenses.
Better to have them registered like this than dying in jail, since child molesters have a very short life expectancy in the general prison population.
There is honor among thieves to a point, a social pecking order with the sex offenders on the bottom of the list; and pedophiles simply not tolerated.
No matter what you think of Michael Jackson, that is one reason they granted him bail. It would not be politically correct to have him killed before he had a chance to have a fair trial.
If you think someone is so dangerous you need to publish this type of information, why are they on the streets in the first place? Seems like crewl and unusual punishment after they have already paid theirt debt to society in jail. If they are a danger,keep them in jail for life or some other place.
I used to work in corrections, both youth and adult. Not all sex offenders are the same. Rapists of strangers have highests re-offence rate. Incest offenders on girls the lowest. Of "child-oriented offenders", those who molest boys are the highest re-offence risks. Treatment actually works to prevent re-offence, but you have to take into account "static factors" within the offender - e.g., offence pattern and method, and "dynamic factors" of situation, e.g. if the incest offender starts dating a single woman with kids. If we monitor and supervise offenders properly, we can detect the changes in dynamic factors and intervene before there is a re-offence. Putting info about sex offenders into the public view is NOT monitoring and supervising! Countries whose prisons provide treatment to sex offenders after a proper needs assessment (psychological, sexual "preferences", statistical, offence history) and make proper use of "long term offender" types of laws, provide the supervision that prevents re-offense and is cost effective. There is a large data base about these issues. Posting offender info or making it public is just sexy vote-getting opportunism: who'd be stupid enough to disagree with such an idea and get branded as a "pervert lover".
-Turnip Onion --- Neither micro nor $oft. Linux is a fine tool.
If you are one day past your 18th birthday, and you have consensual sex with your girlfriend 1 day before her 18th birthday, you are considered a sex offender in most states... even if you later marry the woman. Publishing of vital data on the web should be reserved for those offenders that are actually at risk of re-offending, and even then disclosure should be limited to that person's neighbors. That being said, having a 3-year old daughter, if I find out there is a child molester living in my neighborhood, you can bet I will use all (legal) means available to encourage them to move elsewhere...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
So what about a 19 year old guy that rapes 5 18 year old females?
At least in arizona, they only tell the public about Level 2 (Intermediate) or Level 3 (Likely) sex offenders. So it doesn't sound like your friend would even be on the list. Also in this state, if the age difference is two years or under, it has special considerations and may not be considered statutory rape. Also, they mention the exact reason what the sex offender was charged of.
Well it's nice we've decided to ignore the whole "paid their debt to society" nonsense and are branding these people for life.
But since it's a very social repellent crime it's ok.
In Canada, there is something called "Circles of Support and Accountability" (COSA) .
I have a few friends that have worked with this project, and basically a sex offender is with someone from the community pretty much 24/7; they are also re-integrated (job, volunteer activity), so they are less likely to re-offend.
This is a restorative rather than retributive approach, and it works a lot better.
Keeping dangerous offenders who refuse to go through therapy in prison, usefully re-integrating ex-offenders in the community with appropriate support: that is a solution that works, doesn't cost a lot, avoids lynch mobs and privacy issues.
PS: As for those who ask why sex offenders should be treated differently than murderers, it's really simple: murderers are the least likely to re-offend.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
Either these people presents a threat to society, in which care they should still be in prison, or they have been rehab'ed and should be left alone.
Speaking as a non-parent of course.
Cops in the suburbia of Northern California are already arresting homeless people and giving them one-way bus tickets to San Francisco and Berkeley. This scheme is just more of the same.
That's the worst argument I've every heard, and I hear it again and again. If your argument is that he destroyed a life, so his life should be destroyed, why not just kill him and be done with it? Don't beat around the bush and say "why is he walking the streets"? Why is this guy still alive at all? In fifty years, the girl will *still* be dead, and if you keep him in jail 'til then, all that's accomplished is a greater tax burden.
The justice system is not, and should not be about revenge. It should be about ensuring that crimes do not happen again, and act as a deterrent for other criminals. Here this guy has paid the price the court ordered paid for his crime. He should be able to get on with his life. Otherwise, just kill him now.
Last post!
True sexual predators are much more likely to reoffend than murderers.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Do this for all crimes, no matter how small. That'll teach 'em.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Personally, I feel that when you have paid your debt to society you should be no longer have to keep paying for the rest of your life with this public humiliation.
On a (somewhat) related note, a paedophile was found murdered in Teeside in the UK yesterday. Once you've been labeled a paedophile, there is no hope for you - your life is over.
Public attitudes in the UK view paedophiles as inhuman and throughly evil. There never seems to be anything about what psychological help these people receive afterwards.
Those responsible should be charged as accessories to murder... and it'll happen, given the number of lynch-happy idiots out there...
Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Gates M'dna wgah'nagl fhtagn.
What the sex registries are saying is that crimes involving your genitals are intrinsically worse than murder except in those cases where murder draws the death penalty, since even a murderer that is released after serving multiple life sentences doesn't have to inform his neighbors. Worse, there is a blind equality to sex offense registries that are simply lists. The offender who was eighteen and had the fourteen year old girlfriend whose parents called him on the statutory rape charges (or sexual assault on a minor, depending on what state you live in) is listed right there with the serial rapist who was screwing all the first graders on their bus for five years.
I'd be fine with the thought that they'd just take everyone found guilty of sex offenses and shoot them in the back of the prison. They won't though, because they've an inkling that errors can be made in any sort of criminal case. Errors in most criminal cases naturally fix themselves after time, the criminals get out of jail and can live more or less normal lives. Removing the justice system from the picture and encouraging vigilante activism like the sex offender registries do is mind-boggling though, not only is our justice system set up so that guilt must be proven and not innocence it also assumes a sort of natural state of innocence returns to EVERY OTHER SORT OF CRIMINAL. This is obviously not the case, otherwise we wouldn't need three strikes laws and similar mechanisms to defeat repeat criminals. Why don't we have 'two strike" registries? Murderer registries? Heroin addict registries?
We might, but people don't find those crimes as sensationalized in their minds as rape. I imagine some people might rather have Ted Bundy and Charlie Manson over for dinner than a rapist, that doesn't track in the human cost scenario to me but I understand it would happen. I've had to deal with enough rape victims now though that I'm pretty sure that however fucked up the rape made them I'd still rather not have traded the rape for a corpse. You don't always, but can, get over rape. That means that there's something seriously fucked up with having sex offense registries and not murderer registries. But if we allowed TWO registries, then in ten years we'd have twelve registries and people who got caught a decade ago smoking a joint would be burned alive by their neighbors for being filthy drug dealers.
Laws and government follow an ethical gravity, given a chance to they tend to want to flow into a natural state of totalitariansim because of the perfect order. That's why people like me are always bitching about the slippery slope. If you want sex offenders ass-raped for punishment, then make sure that it's part of the sentence. I'd certainly rather have a precise extreme punishment dealt by the state (since thanks to the death penalty, extreme punishment really should include an awful lot) than trust the fringe elements of the public to make uninformed illegal punishments on people thanks to some sort of tacit governmental sanction.
I doubt it.
You make some good points, however...
We don't publish registries of convicted rapists
Yes we do. At least in Minnesota, the sex offender registry is for all sex offenders who have been designated as high risk recidivists, regardless of their victim's age.
My dingo ate your honor student.
Is a registry of spammers...
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Keep in mind that some pretty low-level crimes count as sex offenses, it is NOT just molestation.
For example, until the recent SCOTUS ruling anyone having gay sex in Texas, or hetero oral or anal sex in many states, was a sex offender.
Prostitutes and johns are all sex offenders. So is anyone on any pornography related charge (sell Hustler at the Kwik-E-Mart in a conservative town, go on the registry). Go too far with a lap dance, sex offender. Put on a production of "Hair" in the wrong town, sex offender.
So, apparently, is anyone who has mooned:
From http://www.appa-net.org/revisitingmegan.pdf
In another example from Michigan, an 18 year old male, who engaged in the "senior prank" of "mooning" his school principal was convicted of indecent exposure, had to register with the state for 25 years, and and has his name and address publicly exposed
The problem is NOT the sex offenders.
The problem is that the sex offenders give the WRONG ADDRESS
-or-
they give the right address and then move and their records are NOT updated.
So vigilantes go to that address and beat on whomever lives there.
If they want to publish the addresses in a PUBLICLY accessable medium, then they had better be putting in the man-hours to make sure that EVERY ADDRESS IS CORRECT.
I won't even go into the fact that the court system is NOT flawless and INNOCENT people are convicted of crimes.
This seems like nothing more than an attempt to get vigilantes to hand out the "justice" that the court system didn't.
On the other hand, if your address is published, incorrectly, and someone beats you up, I'd be looking for lawyers to get me a few $$$ million from the state.
http://www.sodomylaws.org/sensibilities/federal.ht m
Don't forget pandering and prostitution and so forth.
<Irony = ON>
Well, that's a relief. I'm sure that the 17-year-old who was accused by his 17-year-old girlfriend's irate father feels better about the fact that all the details will be posted and the relative heinous-ness (spelling?) will be gauged carefully by his boss, his friends, his teachers, his neighbors, and anybody else.
<Irony = OFF>
Of course, this still doesn't answer the question as to what happens if the information is inaccurate. It brings to mind the issue that John Adams mentioned, which, to paraphrase, says that if we punish the innocent to make sure that we catch the guilty, we remove the incentive for the innocent to stay that way.
I don't expect there to be any easy answers either direction, but then again, if life had nothing but easy answers, then why haven't we gotten further on AI than we have?
Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
There are people who take up crime because the rewards, to them, out weigh the risks.
Take the Enron execs for example.
Or, if that is too difficult, take a drug dealer. Lots of money, respect and women.
I'm more worried about innocent people getting on that list.
8 1_wenbox01 .shtml
Do a google search on Wenatchee "child molestation"
Here's a nice example:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/334
One loony cop and a fucked up legal system and you have hundreds of charges of sex crimes.
I don't trust the government enough to get the correct information on those sites.
I agree. That's why I think that if the girl had been 72 years old, that should not change his sentence.
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
Mod parent up.
The only case I'm aware of is where some guy's ex-wife or girlfriend went to the cops and filed a complaint against him.
He was tried, convicted and did time in jail.
I remember seeing on the news about 10 years ago. I can't find an Internet citation.
I'm a 21 year old guy on the Michigan sex offender registry for life because I was going to meet a 15 year old that told me she was 16 (legal age of consent in MI) at first. After we talked for a few months we decided to meet and my exact words on the phone to "her" were "We can do whatever you want".
Her ended up being a very middle aged he, that's a cop. I ended up getting charged with 3 felonies 2 of them carrying a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. If Michael Jackson is convicted of molesting that kid he faces and absolute maximum of SIX years in prison. I had no prior record and there was no victim.
10,000 dollars later for a lawyer I ended plea bargaining down to a year on electronic monitoring and 3 years probation and registering for life on the sex offender registry. Even thou the whole time everyone was telling me it was entrapment but my lawyer was very weary to taking it to trial because its a sex crime and its hard as hell to get juries to not convict on something like that.
The way our system is set up is to stack so many charges against you that you are overwhelmed and even thou you and everyone around you know you are innocent of the stuff they are charging you with you have to take a plea barging for risk of losing 40-50 years of your life in some shithole prison.
This case has taken a serious toll on me emotionally, physically, and financially. Someone at work found my name on the list and luckily I had already explained my mangers and had been having consoling sessions with our workplace mental health people so I was able to keep my job. However I am still and emotional wreak, I am even more shy then I was before. I am terrified of trying to meet anyone I might actually really like for fear of what would happen when I would have to eventually tell her about this. I have no motivation in life because I know realistically that I will never find another job as long as this list exists. I have put on almost 100 lbs in less then 15 months. I'm out almost 20 thousand dollars in court costs and lawyer fees.
In Michigan there is an 18 year old kid that has to register on the sex offender registry for 20 years because he slapped another kid in the locker room with his penis. There is also a forty something guy that has to register for the rest of his life because he had a little to much to drink and grabbed a waitresses breast at a bar. Not everything is near as cut and dry as people would like you to believe.
The bottom line is this list is not set up so that the people that need to be watched are being watched, it is set up so that just about anyone can end up on it for doing something stupid once.
Luckily some strong forces in Michigan have realized exactly what this list is and are starting to fight it. It may be to late for me but hopefully none of you will have to get a call from your kid at midnight after the police have rummaged thru your kids bedroom without even allowing him so much as a phone call before going there to have your parents ready for them.
Sorry about my spelling and grammar this is very hard for me to talk about.
"will include their names, ages and birth dates, where they live, where they work or attend school, and which offense they were convicted of. Photographs will soon be posted, as well."
My problem here is two-fold. First of all, whenever any information is outdated or incorrect (and there is ample evidence that this happens commonly), you get innocent folks labled as sex offenders. This could be solved in a couple of different ways, which I'll discuss later. Secondly, once you've posted this information, you create a number of problems for the people who have already served their time. Vigilante attacks that put these people in the hospital and leave their property destroyed are not uncommon. You may say that they 'deserve whatever they get', but our laws state that they have paid their debt to society by serving their time and doing whatever the court has ordered. The vigilante attacks on these individuals and their property are criminal acts no matter which way you slice it. You are attacking a person or property when they have done nothing to you whatsoever, except that they exist. If you believe that their existence justifies your burning down their home, then I believe that your existence justifies me burning down your's.
Then we go on to the next 'layer' of problems with these registries; vigilante groups which claim to be 'victim advocacy' groups. Now there are indeed plenty of genuine victims' advocacy groups that most certainly do a lot of good for folks - these are not the ones to which I'm referring. I'm talking about the self-appointed guardians of the masses who see fit to go all over town posting information from the sex offender registry in every shop, store, public building, and on every street corner in town. I'm talking about the people who find the offender's home and go out several times a week to picket outside to all hours of the night "informing" the neighborhood about this person's arrival. I put that in quotes because the neighborhood was already informed by the registy itself, if not by the thousands upon thousands of posters these vigilantes have posted all over town. These picketers are there for one reason only; to scare the hell out of the person or persons living where the sex offender registry says a sex offender lives. These could even be characterized under new legislation as "terrorist" groups, though I would disagree with that particular lable. Instead, I would say a more apt comparison would be made between these people and the KKK. Much like the KKK does these days, these groups go to the very edge of what the law allows, knowing that the police are too afraid to even attempt to keep them in line for fear of being accused of sticking up for a sex offender. Instead, these people simply do whatever they please, which generally means filling the offender's life with constant fear and making it impossible for them to ever reintegrate with society again. This brings me to my third critisism of the sex offender registry: it is used in such a way that those listed find it nearly impossible to live a normal life.
I only know one person who is on a registry, and he's an asshole. He's my step-brother's cousin, in case you're wondering. That being said, he's lost jobs, lost friends, and been almost completely cut off from his own family; not because of his crime (for which he served 10 years), but because no one wants to get anywhere near someone who's on that registry for fear of being labled "one of them". Every time he manages to get a job to try and support himself, anonymous faxes and letters pour in from all over the place, invariably causing him to be fired almost as soon as he gets the job. So far as I know, he hasn't been able to hold a steady job for more than a couple of weeks at a time through no current or work-related fault of his own. He receives constant threats and had to get rid of his landline in favor of a cell phone, which is harder to track down to a phone number with an address. Most of the family won't even talk with him anymore, let alone
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
If we are going to provide a list of registered offenders, we should provide a list of persons guilty of *any* crime!
We'd pretty quickly find that nearly *everybody* over 25 has done something wrong, and would quickly learn to get off our stupid, petty high horses, and realize that everybody makes mistakes.
What if technology was developed that allowed us to instantly see the crime and/or achievement history of anybody we met, instantly, with a HUD built into our brains?
Wouldn't that be "full disclosure"? At what point are we violating the privacy of other people? Isn't that the logical conclusion of the increased monitoring and disclosure we are seeing? What's the logical conclusion to the advances of technology?
So, why would we discriminate against sex offenders? What's the recitivism rate for those of *any* crime? I'd suspect we'd see numbers not so different...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Why do we require all convictions to be within a reasonable doubt? I think this should translate into punishment as well. If we can't reasonably guarantee that we will only punish those who deserve it by some method, we shouldn't use that method of punishment.
Look, I think everyone here would agree to sex registries IF we could guarantee only to punish those who deserved it (say child molesters). However, I think we think we all know that the logistics are a nightmare. Are we going to update the address database often enough? What if I happen to "look" like a sex offender? What if we have the same name? What should happen if I'm an innocent person wronged by the system? We can't even fix the voting machines that screwed up the last presidential election. How hard is that? Anything would be an improvement to punch cards and chads!
If Kobe Bryant is convicted, does this mean that he would be a sex offender? For some reason, I don't see us alienating him. Heck, we pay good money to watch a cannibalistic rapist fight in the ring. How many people argued Mike Tyson should be allowed to fight because "he's paid his debt to society". Oh, we say these women should have known better. Heck, they led this guy on. They should have known better that go to his room.
Here's what I've learned about life. If I'm going to convict a crime, I'd better be rich and famous. I should immediately hire Johnny Cochran as my attorney. Cheating and plagiarism are part of my college education. I should get my Harvard MBA anyway I can. Manipulating my company's stock price (especially for my personal gain) is good business. And if I'm going to lie, I need to be a politician.
Before we try to tag every child molester, let's fix the easy stuff first.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
They aren't just "accused" of sex crimes. They have been convicted. This is part of their punishment, their anonymity is a freedom they have given up by committing a heinous act. One might be tempted to say that they have "served their time" and should then return to society, but their crimes truly do warrant this kind of scrutiny.
MORTAR COMBAT!
As horrible as sex crimes are, and as useful a tool as such a registry may be, I recently read that a study was done on repeat offenders, and sex offenders had the lowest rate of recidivism. Shouldn't murderers and carjackers be put on a registry like this, too?
South Carolina has had this for some time now.
g ory=SCSO&Service=SCSO_01
http://www.sled.state.sc.us/SLED/default.asp?Cate
but as for your drug dealer/etc registries point, i disagree. there are two problems i find with such registries one, is that they are currently innacurate to a great degree two, is that the PEOPLE are not ready for them. there are SO MANY people who are stuck back in the agarian mindset that religion is good, god will decide, and you shouldn't bother thinking for yourself.
still more are stuck in a medeival mindset, that calls for revenge, bloodshed, against people who make the slightest crime, etc
if one day the populous as a whole can deal with a former drug dealer living in their midst, then mabye we can think about a registry
in my life i've come in contact with drug dealers(how can you not, in a public education system??). they aren't all bad people. hell, most of them are a LOT more honest, hard working, then some of the other capitalists i've met. they will tell you right out if the drug they are selling to you will fuck up your brain. they will tell you that your a worthless peice of shit if you are addicted. can you imagine mcdonalds saying that mcgridals screw your digestion system and your heart up...and that if you eat mcdonalds regularily you are a retard?
i have also met people who on the surface seem to be descent,.. people really involved in their church, helping people, setting up church events...and yet the more i get to know them the more i realize how clueless, malicious, and sexually perverted they are. and i lost my train of thought.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I mean, what kind of SICKO would get turned on by good looking women around 20! It is simply unheard of!
Clever signature text goes here.
Think about a dead guy on probation the next time you ask the government to do something for you.
The journey is better then the end.
However, the simple fact that children aren't created equal is ALSO already recognized under the law. Some children become magically transformed into adults by the justice system by the heinousness of their crimes, just like a child can go from state to state and magically gain or lose the ability to sign contracts or get married. With all these sorts of distinctions made unevenly from state to state and jury to jury, it's hard to see how a simple list of names without distinction serves any real purpose of the judicial system.
So, it remains as the only solution to why the things exist as some sort of placating gesture to appease the masses. Bread and circuses, with whatever positive benefit gained by informing citizens of the potential child molester moving into their midsts weighed against the negative possibilities of tacitly encouraging people to become criminals themselves in response to the sex offenders who may or not be child molesters (depending on the definitions used in the sex offense registry of the state). The fact of the matter is, the registries aren't defined as how the punishment is doled out. Perhaps if we defined the registries more thoroughly and removed the protection of law for the offenders it would make some sense. We could release the prisoners into society with the assumption that the greater weight of the sentencing was still awaiting them in a vengeful and legally righteous society. As offenders left prisons we could have school children wait outside the gates and stone them to death or something, as a learning device to teach them morality.
I'd have rather that if we were making these sorts of lists that we simply handed them out to an agency of some sort that was designed to deal with these special sorts of criminals, some subset of the parole board probably. I'd be just as happy to have my children protected by people trained to do so than the masses who learn their brand of morality from Hollywood. Furthermore, when teaching my children about my country I'd rather not have to explain things like unequal protection of the law or why I didn't ever want them throwing stones at people just because they turned up on a list published by bureaucrats.
A lot of places play fast and loose with the term 'sex offender'. Most people assume that this term refers to people who have raped or committed a sexual act on a pre-pubescent child.
However many places consider any man who is gay and has been arrested on the anti-homosexual laws.
These conviction records are never erased or pardoned. So some guy who happened to be in a gay bar at a time when it was raided by the police 40 years ago is considered in the same class of 'sex offender' as an active pedophile.
Some places go even so far as to classify descrete 'public' uniration as a sex offence. Some guy taking a whizz at 1am behind a tree gets put into the same 'sex offender' category as the aformentioned pedophile. This conviction never goes away either. And God help you if your child has to go the bathroom right now and there are no public restrooms within miles.
Let's not forget all the 18 year old guys who get caught kissing their 17 year old sweethearts. They're convicted 'sex offenders' also.
I just found out that Kobe Bryant moved into my neighborhood! Time to go get an autograph!
The site says he is on probabation, but it also says deceased.
Maybe after he died, they figured they'd cut him a break...
Sex offenders are currently the leading cause of statistics in the nation.
Leading close behind are reality TV, Fox's "Fair and balanced" view of everything, and trailing all the way down at the bottom of the list are statistics that actually matter.
Something like 42% of all Slashdot readers will get the joke of my first sentance immediately.
-Riskable
"Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
New Jersey already has this, too...
http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/reg_sexoffend.html
My Company
Actually, it says he lives on Deceased street in Deceased in the county of Unknown and the state of YY with a zip code of 00000. The tool is a lot more useful if you enter your own address or a nearby address to see what kinds of perverts are living across the street (or not).
TT
Just make them wear a big ol' scaret letter denoting the crime they've committed. Can we throw stones too? Not that I have any sympathy for sex offenders at large. It's just a huge double standard compared to other crimes. I don't have a right to know if there is a murder (or twenty) in my appartment building but I really should know if there is a rapist on the other side of the state. Good, that helps make the world such a better place.
How does a picture say he's Hispanic? The picture I see clearly shows a black male.
TT
If recividism is absolute then sentence them absolutely, don't release them to the public with the implicit expectation of punishment and encouragement of illegal vigilantism.
-
Expose everyone who's ever had any brush with justice at all, so they can't get any job at all. Then, without job and without a life they'll
... euhm ... cut off every legal option for a life they have and they'll ... get out and die ?
Nope, many of them give up and commit another crime to get put back in prison. Sometimes they do it because they miss prison (after all, they are fed and sheltered there), others do it because despite their best attempts to start a new honest life, they're met at every turn with roadblocks put up by the state/feds/etc.I greatly admire those that perservere and manage to finally succeed, but it's not right. I know of a person who ended up serving time due to drug posession. He wasn't a drug user, he just ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. (IIRC, he was driving some friends who had drugs on them, that he didn't know about, and one of those random roadblocks stopped them. Since he was the drive/owner of the car, he was considered guilty as well.) He's a well educated guy, has a degree, but can't use it. He was unable to get a job after getting out of jail because of the conviction. He was finally given a break by someone and makes his living painting houses nowadays, making only a fraction of what he'd make in his chosen field.
Now tell me, do you think that he got any real justice? He served his time for a crime he didn't commit, then had to give up his career and education in order to make a life. Personally I've always thought that he's the poster child for all that's wrong with the justice system. I also know someone else who had an even worse experience. having their life totally destroyed just because of a looney person's false accusations. Turns out the feds don't bother to check facts on many (maybe all?) reports in highly publicized cases where they have no leads. They also won't admit they made mistakes, leaving innocent victems in their wake.
Face it folks, things like sex offender registries don't help out innocent citizens, they just propogate false security, destroy the chances of rehabilitaed criminals being able to start a new life and stay out of crime, and completely kick the innocents who were falsely convicted in the balls.
That isn't justice, at least not anything I consider just.
I just found that my state still has this in action:
http://www.mipsor.state.mi.us/
The best I can see are disclaimers that the information is wrong. It almost appears as if they don't even bother to check the data given to them. There are warnings that people that use this data to commit crimes are subject to criminal prosecution, somehow I doubt that notice really stops people. The list I see doesn't list the dates of the occurences.
If this is right, then most states have it:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/states.htm
Ok. How about this picture. Do you see a black man or a white woman?
It seems obvious now why these registries exist. They are being used by governments to provide liability coverage for themselves in the case of continued sexual crimes from released prior offenders. "Sure, Ma'am, we released him 14 months ago, and apparently he seduced and raped your 11-yr-old daughter yesterday ... but our registry had him listed all that time and you should have checked to see that he was living 4 houses down from you."
... after all, thinking and role-playing shouldn't be illegal. As long as he leaves the kids alone, what he does is fine with me ... and my angry emotional responses are MY problem, not his.
It is only a matter of time before a murder registry is put into place. Heck, Ohio already has people listed in a website database when incarcerated, and also lists their charges. With pictures!
This sex-offender registry thing is getting so much support since everybody at least says they despise such criminals. I remain convinced that no one accused of sexual offenses involving children can get a fair trial anywhere. There is no solution for this; they are a permanent oppressed minority and they can only hope to keep their heads down (and, I hope, trousers up).
I asked myself the other day what I would do if I saw some guy jerking off while watching kids on a playground. The initial swell of violent emotion was illuminating. After sober reflection on that, I now conclude that I would instead do nothing
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
Yes.
TT
Good god, this is gonna be a straight as an arrow shot. Consent is everything. A 4 year old cannot consent because they don't know any better. What would you call someone who waves their genitals at children? Would you not call them a pervert? The sodomy law was a bad law, I addressed that. Jesus fucking christ, why the fuck are you defending someone who molests kids? What the fuck kind of agenda is that? Who are you to say what is appropriate punishment for a child molester? Who am I to? I'm just saying that their fucked up sexual fantasies should not disrupt the life of my child. That comes before anything.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
North Dakota has also had this online for a while now. Let's you search for a person name, or list them by letter. Also lists offense, current address, and a picture.
Portland, North Dakota Puppies
So now pornography advertisers have a state-sponsored list of potential customers. Sure, it would probably be illegal for them to use the registry like that, but some of the pornography I'm thinking about is illegal anyway.
He provides a valuable service to humanity. Especially nerd humanity. We have no game, remember? Anyway, what have you done for anyone lately?
If they're both 17 (or underage, depending on jusrisdiction), what about the girl?
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
Statutory Rape shouldn't even be on the books, let alone grouped with real sex offenders. IMHO that is something that should be left in the domain of parents, not the law.
Of course, you'll be arrested for viewing them.
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
As a parent, I'm wondering what the point of this article is? My state, Washington has listed sex offenders for along time. They don't list they're address however, exact address anyways, just a general block they live on. Are you worried about your name showing up on the list?
Don't Vote for Norm Dicks! http://www.nodicks2008.com Another nutless dirtbag that voted for the FISA bill!
Is that the USA is one of the few nations that would actually have any problem with the above scenario. Most would be more concerned about the liquor violation.
..don't panic
It's pretty clear that Americans are crazy. Not all of them of course, but the ones that think up sites like this. That includes the people that accept this sickness. How many people think these websites that can wreck many lives are okay?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3251094.st m
Paedophile found dead in home
A convicted paedophile has been found battered to death in his home.
The body of sex offender Arnold Hartley, 73, was found early on Saturday morning at his home in Redcar, Teesside.
He had suffered serious injuries to his head and face, and police have launched a murder hunt.
A 28-year-old man and a 20-year-old woman were arrested on Sunday, but were later released "unconditionally".
A Cleveland Police spokesman said it was not possible to say whether Hartley was the victim of a vigilante attack.
Hartley was jailed for 12 months in 2001 for making indecent images of a girl under the age of 14 and gross indecency.
'Medium risk'
Cleveland Police held a press conference on Sunday at which Detective Superintendent Brian Dunn said Hartley had lived at his home in Queen Street for many years and was well-known in the community as a sex offender.
He was released in April 2002 and returned to the area where he moved back into his former address.
Mr Dunn said Hartley was on the Sex Offenders' Register and was considered a "medium risk".
He said there had been "previous problems" at the address and Hartley had been subjected to harassment.
There was a disturbance shortly after midnight on Saturday in Queen Street and police have appealed for help in piecing together what happened.
Mr Dunn said: "This is a murder inquiry and obviously Mr Hartley's previous conviction will form part of the inquiry.
Forensic experts
"But whatever he has done in the past does not give people the right to attack and kill him."
A neighbour said Hartley's home had been the subject of many attacks but he had once claimed he did not have any enemies.
Cal Birkbeck, owner of the Castle Hotel said Hartley gave up replacing his broken windows because they had been smashed so many times.
On Sunday, three police cars were parked in front of the house with another in a back alley.
The front door was hidden by a tent and forensic experts were working around the property.
Police officers carried out house-to-house inquiries.
Three floral tributes had been left in front of the house.
I'm deeply mistrustful of these "Think of the children" idiots who seem to be behind this kind of thing. It rather takes the heat off a state that was employing sex offenders as children's carers.
See my journal, I write things there
Fabulous, friendster for paedophiles. Do we really need to be taking the hard work out of networking for sex-offenders? How hard will it be to find like-minded individuals now.
In other news, the authorities responsible will act suprised when the next little kid goes missing and a group of neighborhood vigilantes decides to go and beat the crap out of the nearest sex offender on the off chance that he might have had something to do with it.
And, since most pedophiles who've already been busted will be smart enough to prowl away from their home turf, it probably won't end up making kids in Maine any safer on the whole.
Given this, it's really tempting to create distributed list of offenders, so that anybody can report a disliked neighbour to be one. Where, where is the URL so that I can start submitting ?
I like my outfit, it's inexpensive, but cool -- April Ryan
Admitdly tabs need to be kept on sex offenders, but that's not the job of groups of angery citizens with lumps of wood.
For example, why not post a list with all the addresses of Enron's executives that commited fraud? After all, those guys ruined the lives of thousands.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Committ a crime and then play yourself onthe America's Most Wanted reenactment.
No, I'm not the Burito Butt Bandit; I just play him on TV. (snicker)
Consent is everything. A 4 year old cannot consent because they don't know any better.
Sorry, this will get a little bit off topic, but you hit a pet peave of mine; this is NOT an attack on your post.
Yes, I do belive consent plays a part; Consententing adults should not be interfered with. But at what age are you an adult? 18 years old? How about 14 years old? How do you decide?
And if a 14 (or anybody under 17) year old can not give consent/is not an adult, why charge them as an adult if they commit a crime? And this is where we (talking about the USA here) as a society fail our childern.
If child 14 years old is not mature enough to vote, drink, drive, have sex, sign contracts, etc, etc, they should never be able to be charged as an adult, with adult like punishment!
Sorry, if they can be held to adult levels of maturity for purposes of being charged as a criminal (i.e. knowing right from wrong), then that must mean that they mature enough for everything else. You can not pick and choose!
Sorry for the soapboxing.
BWP
How convenient -- an online database in which someone who wants to commit a sex crime can find a neighborhood where someone else is sure to be blamed
Did the registered offender actually commit the crime? Well, it's a bit hard for the police to question him now that he's been lynched.
No, it's ok, and that's something I've thought of. I don't know what age to allow consent at either, I would think 18 is a good average, but there are obviously people who are able to make solid, rational decisions by the age of 12. Just like there are a LOT of moronic 18 year olds who don't know shit. There's no magic answer, at least not in my eyes, since you can't psychoanalyze everyone to find when they're "ready" for things.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
Some people may worry that this will extended to all covicted criminals. However I a crime related directory may backfire for the government.
Got Crack? Now you have a yellow pages of local crack dealers
Boss pissing you off? Now a yellow pages of Hitmen
Like watching people play in traffic? Now you can camp out by their house and watch them jaywalk.
Now I completely believe that America is going overboard on this "sex crimes" crap. It is not only stupid but unconstitutional to mark people on a sex offender list for life for a crime. However, your story has problems:
1) ADAs do not determine admissibility of evidence. That is up to a judge. If either side attempts to enter something into evidence and the other side objects on certian grounds, the judge may rule it inadmissable. However neither side may force the other side to not present evidence. Only a judge determines what may be presented in a case. Also it is very difficult to rule defense evidence inadmissable. The defense may present almost any evidence to create resonable doubt. The prosecution, on the other hand, is highly limited. Any evidence obtained without proper warrant, among other things, is inadmissable.
2) You may subpoena witnesses in your defense, including the victim. That the prosecution did not call her is not relivant. You may subpoena her and force her to testify. It's one of the cornerstones of the adversarial system. While she might not say what you want, you can put her on the stand for questioning.
So, there is one of two things going on here. Either you got SERIOUSLY railroaded, in which case I suggest you appeal you case, and seek civil action against thr state and perhaps your lawyer, since clearly there was some gross problems here. Or, you are feeding us a fairy tale, where part or all of what you've related is false.
And CT isn't known for it's conservatism.
This site's been there for some time now.
CT Sex Offender Registry
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
I've heard many stories like this, and the fear of getting caught up innocently in something like this is doing awful things to our society.
Men are feeling a pressure to withdraw more and more from the lives of children, even their own.
For example, I'm a father of two but I would NEVER EVER consider doing ANY voluntary work with other peoples children simply because:
a) I'd worry about consequences to my family of any mistaken/false accusation.
b) The general suspicion, "why would a 40 year old man want to work with children" ?
I've spoken to many men who feel the same way.
I know men who refuse to bathe their own baby daughters and I'm not "authorised" to video my own children in their school nativity play.
But it's not the perverts who're frightened away, they're driven to circumvent these trivial obstacles, It's the likes of you and I that are getting fenced.
What kind of society is coming when children are deprived of exposure to risk, independence, privacy, and un-vetted male role models?
And as far as I can tell this particular risk to our children is the same as it was 10 or 100 years ago. Now we just have the vocabulary for it.
I don't know about both underage. In this state 17 is considered the age of consent for a MALE but NOT for a female. Therefore if two 17yr olds have sex the male is committing statutory rape. The female is not committing a crime. He goes on the record as a rapist for having sex with a partner his own age, he's marked a sex offender and must make sure the state has updated information about his whereabouts and address.
With this he would be labeled a rapist and plastered on a website, grouped in with child molestors.
ageofconsent.com
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
See http://www.crimetime.com/SPguide.htm
It's comforting to me as a parent to know the risks that are out there. There are 6 convicted sex offenders in my zip code, BTW.
Sigs are for lusers. Hey! wait a second...
You know, the whole idea of a "registry" of ANY kind of criminal that's accessible to those outside the FBI or other law enforcement agencies is rather counter-productive to the stated goals of the justice system.
First, we [used to] have the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Beyond placing the burden of proof on the prosecution, this also means that judge and jury are supposed to walk into a case with the belief that the defendant is indeed innocent. It's the job of the prosecution to convince them otherwise. Keeping a list of criminals that anyone can access pretty much defeats that concept.
Secondly, if someone IS found guilty of a crime, they are given a punishment that's [supposed to be] fitting for the crime they've committed, and the circumstances involved. More importantly, once you've "done your time", you are supposed to be absolved, and presumed innocent for any future charges. If you're on a list, you can't be presumed innocent anymore.
If we don't want people who have committed crime X (currently rape) to ever live near anyone else for the rest of their lives, then perhaps we should add that crime to the list of mandatory death sentances (currently only treason?). There's no point having the charade of processing and rehabilitation through the justice system if we just want people to shun them when they get out anyways.
>> What's worse, molesting a child or murdering one?
Thats not the point, although I believe they're equally as bad. The point here, is that these people are out of jail and in the public. With a convicted murderer they are punished for longer periods of time, hopefully they'll never get back in to society. With these people, they're back in a few years, so I'm damn happy to know we can find out about them to stop harm from coming to us or our kids.
What this subject does is sell papers and news broadcasts. Look at the attention we give MJ, all those tittlating little details. There's nothing like turning on the news at 10 to hear the first words of the reporter "police are on the hunt tonight for a sexual predator..." Ask yourself, what would you rather hear about on the news, the latest sex crime, or the latest murder crime?
Do these headlines make us safe? I hardly think so. It sure does keep people tuned in, however.
The registries themselves don't increase the safety of our neighborhoods. Criminals, of any sort, can certainly move around, catch a bus, drive to a different city. A registry is not going to stop a criminal, but people paying attention to their surroundings can.
~ ~ ~
Great Spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -Albert Einstein
I understand 'making images' to be 'taking photos', and 'gross indecency' to be what this whole story is about.
At a guess, your interpretation is based on the differences between US and UK English.
Around 3-4 years ago, someone got into trouble in England or Germany (sorry, can't remember which) for having taken some nude photos of their kids. The people who developed the films informed the police. There was absolutely no question of the parents having abused their kids and also no question of them having wanted to publicise those photos in any way.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
I'm not sure how many 11 year-olds research sex crimes before they commit them.
:/
I doubt many 11 year-olds know exactly what a sex crime is.
Sadly, there is no facts on this case & I'm too lazy to look them up. Its possible he deserved the punishment, but the kid himself will never be a deterant to other kids.
~~~
Click here, you know you wanna!
New vigilante hacking opportunity:
For a fun exercise, INSERT each of the legislators that voted for this legislation into the database and watch general fun/chaos/disorder ensue.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
"Coming to a theatre near you: Zombie TEXAS Chainsaw Murdering Pedophiles"
Wait, are you saying that in Texas there are Zombies that wield chainsaws and kill pedophiles? Is that how this guy died? Ok - now I'm just confused.
He's saying that there are Pedophiles who murder Zombie Texas Chainsaws.