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Pocket PCs Masquerade as iPods
agwadude writes "Wired News has a story about a British software firm called StarBrite that is selling a virtual iPod that runs on Microsoft's PocketPC operating system. It mimics the iPod interface exactly, including the unique scroll wheel. It's a mere $20 but this seems right considering it's only software, and it only supports MP3. MacDailyNews has a shorter story."
Is the software really the selling point of the iPod?
or as we say in German: slashdotted. Darn.
-- Power corrupts, but PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
I love the black version. That would be hot if you could change the color of the ipod screen and what not. They need to move to a color LCD version. That would be expensive but I think it would totally be worth it. I already pay a lot for an iPod why not trick it out?
___ Shout Central - Crushes your nuts!
Not slashdoted...just everyone clicked the link at the same time :)
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
Software doesn;t change the fact that storage is still a problem, especially since you need to use some of it to install this program. For the price of the software plus a memory card you can just buy a real MP3 player...
Long live reverse-engineering! Besides, apple wants to make money on the music, not the hardware. What harm could this be?
Fastest reaction time from Apple lawyers ever. Man those guys are good (or bad, depending on how you think of it).
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
It's a mere $20 but this seems right considering it's only software, and it only supports MP3.
;)
Well, there's where the iPod emulation starts to fall apart. It should be $60+ if they want to emulate more of the experience.
A Clie's scroll wheel would nice for this type of app. In this software the scroll wheel is emulated on the screen itself.
Casual Games/Downloads
Besides, the beauty of the interface is how it is designed for your hands, not your pointing device. How do you get feedback and all that on a touchscreen, be it with your fingers or worse, with a PDA-pencil...
A piece of software mimicing an IPod running on a piece of software mimicing an operating system.
MacCentral is reporting that "pBop's resemblance to the iPod was unmistakable, especially when the product first launched: It was originally called pPod, and featured an interface that was practically identical to third-generation iPods."
it was so similar, in fact, that Apple asked them to make some changes, including the name.
Starbrite has "cooperated fully to address Apple's concerns" but, if you ask me, it is still pretty much a rip off of the iPod interface (GUI and physical). Isn't this kind of thing legally protectable?
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
MacSlash had this item on March 01st. See it: here.
I give it 14 days before they get hit with an intellectual property lawsuit - if it was freeware I guess it might not have been so bad but they're selling it......
I'll keep my iPod for my MP3's and save the space on the iPaq for other useful stuff (like PocketSCUMM!)
considering that 20 gb hard-drives for pocket pc's cost an arm and a leg, this is hardly an 'ipod killer'.
$20 for mp3 player software? why? just make an ipod skin for some free software.
for great justice
It doesn't seems to support aac files. All it has is pretty interface and ability to play mp3 files. (not even ogg or wma) What happens to just using xmms or winamp?
It's a mere $20 but this seems right considering it's only software, and it only supports MP3.
Actually to me that seems like a total rip, anyone else?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Now I can get an iPod mini on the cheap:
$250 PDA
$400 4gb Hitachi CF microdrive
$20 for this software
and the Apple lawsuit?
Priceless.
These guys are just begging for a Cease & Desist, they'll probably get smacked down for "trade dress"-- the argument could be made that the iPod's UI is unique and therefore able to be protected from duplication.
Same thing they used to shut down those cheesy iMac ripoffs ~5 years ago.
Ever hear of the slashdot effect? Not to mention that the site is actually still up!
No extra functionality, MP3 only, not an iPod, and it only runs on top of MS software. Lame.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
And the difference between this and this with this. Or simply this.
Do people really want to pay $20 purely to get a skin for their pocketPC, that has less functionality(only mp3's) than something they can download for free.
From article: "Naturally, the pPod's interface is also just like the iPod's...It does not support WMA, nor songs downloaded from Apple's popular iTunes Music Store, which are encoded as copy-protected AAC files."
How is this any different from any other lame software MP3 player? It seems that the pPOD's main selling point is it's similarity to the iPOD, only cheaper, yet it lacks the similarity of the iPOD's best selling point...legal downloading of audio files from Apple's i-Tunes!!
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buy one here (with screenshot).
And the Google cache
Not trolling or anything, but to me, this just seems to prove (again) how well Apple has been doing things these past couple years. Would companies be trying to mimic their every move if Apple was on the wrong track?
I don't really like the fact that the software is a total rip-off of Apples UI design, and that it may (potentially?) reduce iPod sales (although probably to a minimal degree, if at all), but it does seem to very much re-inforce that consumers are generally extremely pleased with Apple's products, and the carefully thought out design that goes along with them.
Mikro$haft might get a Klew eventually, but probably not, and in the meantime, I'll rejoice in my Mac OS X bliss, and never look back. (Converted Mac user since July 2002)
java guy, tech blog...
That's completely untrue. The iPod hardware is great, certainly (except the battery... grr) but it's the UI that really makes it - the fact that you can get to any one of 10k songs really really quickly and easily, with one hand.
Lovely hardware working perfectly with lovely software is Apple's modus operandi - at a lovely price (for Apple).
pictures
*YAAAAAAWN*
Hold still little pig. I just have some lipstick I want to put on you...
You know what?
Donate free food here
Well, you are correct in more ways than you realise.
Apple had their way with these guys and forced the renaming of the product (to pBop) and slight modifications to the interface.
Slashdot is behind the times. This story would have been meaningful a couple days ago.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
If Apple's legal team was ok with it and has cooperated with Apple fully, what is your problem?
Do you have some information that Apple's legal team doesn't?
All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
You just keep on buying your $19 CDs for one song and don't mind what the rest of us are doing. But I'm sure you are just stealing hte music and you expect everyone to give you everything for free. Move out of your mom's basement and join the real world.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I'm pretty sure you can sue for infringement on any of the claims in a patent. That said, the only thing Apple obviously mention as being patent-pending (that I can see) is their Auto-Sync technology.
In any case, the design would be covered by industrial design law - it was on this basis that Apple successfully sued Emachines over their iMac lookalike PCs.
>> Are these guys still up?
Go to www.handango.com and search using pBop. Still there.
No, it's not a bad thing that the software doesn't support the "invasive" copy protection (which is easily broken now, BTW).
It *is* a bad thing that the software doesn't support AAC or Windows Media, both of which are more suited to portable devices than MP3 on account of their superior audio quality per kbps of compressed audio.
If anyone deserves to be able to patent the stuff they produce, it's Apple-- since other companies apparently cannot resist ripping off damned near everything Apple does.
For example, why is Dell's Digital Jukebox white, when just about every other product they make has a dark colored case? So they can fool some rubes into thinking they're buying an iPod, that's why!
And we're not talking about submarine patents here. Apple is using them the way they were meant to be used-- to defend the fruits of their labors for a period of time, against the makers of half-assed knockoffs.
From StarBrite's website:
"No need to waste money on an expensive player and carry two items"
Nice! So they're saying I should keep my $20 and take the iPod everywhere with me?!
Wow, a lot cheaper, than launching an international legal court case. Just get em slashdotted...
Think Different.
Personally I find this to be a good thing. Reverse engineering, duplicating any device in hardware or software is cool. Copying the vaunted IPOD on a Windows Pocket PC? That's the ultimate in irony there.
I myself don't care for the IPOD or it's interface, so I've got no reason to play with this software. But the idea sounds interesting, if not particularly useful. What would be more impressive overall however, is if this company did something ala what Rockbox did for the Archos devices, and wrote a new OS to run on the IPOD itself.
"...The mice will see you now..."
One has to wonder... being that you can now get the 4Gb CF hard drives (i.e. MuVo 2, mini iPod), you can now stick one of these in a PocketPC, and get an "iPod" that can store 800 songs, has wireless internet access, is an address book and all that, plays movies (wmv's, divx), and PLAYS QUAKE!? now that would be kickin, and would be worth the extra cash you would shell out for the form factor of a real iPod.
Skill is successfully walking a tightrope over Niagara Falls. Intelligence is not trying. -- Anonymous
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I have been using PocketMusic from PocketMind on my Samsung i700 PocketPC/Phone for a while, and it's amazing. I have zero iPod envy (I can't balance a budget, get e-mail, web surf, or make a call on an iPod, but I can play my Oggs on my PocketPC -- even to the extent of dagging them from my Linux box).
I mean this to take nothing away from the exquisitely designed, iPod, but I no longer have the desite to possess a single specialized device for every eFunction in my life. Sure, I sacrifice some sizzle sans iPod, some corporate penis-size sans blackberry, and some cuteness sans the postage stamp-sized phone du jour, but I love just having it *ALL* on my Samsung.
You have lost. You will be sued.
So it's an MP3 player with an iPod skin? What's the problem? It's not like there are any Windows Pocket PC systems out there that actually have the REAL interface that the iPod does. And what about all the hardware connections that the iPod has? Hm... Sounds like a snow lews day to me. ;P
Un-news
The iPod is a slick but over-priced piece of hardware
If it were over-priced someone would have come out with a copy that is the same storage/size/weight but cheaper. Can you point me to such a product?
Posted by pudge on 13:39 09 March 2004
from the i-smell-a-lawsuit dept.
Shouldn't that be the iSmell-a-lawsuit dept.?
Maybe you should educate the morons of tomorrow so they'll stop believing the leaders of tomorrow. - Dogbert
>Can you point me to such a product?
$129.99 @ 20 GB.
Of course they can't DUPLICATE the iPod exactly, that would be illegal.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Not much more... None of their models come close to my Archos Gmini 220, which is cheaper by far.
that make me regret the $500 I dropped this morning on a Palm OS device.
Damn, could I have a little warning in the future PLEASE?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Wow.
Hundreds of doomsayers predicting the demise of this, and not one mention (modded up at least) of Windows ripping off the Mac interface...and Apple LOSING the subsequent lawsuit.
According to one legal analysis, Microsoft's legal strategy was that of "breaking Apple's nebulous 'gestalt' and 'look-and-feel' theory into specific identifiable elements and then knocking each one down like uncopyrightable bowling pins...demonstrating nearly two dozen windowing systems...that used elements Apple claimed to own.
Doesn't sound much different here, I doubt they'd waste their time on it.
The FONT is stolen and that's not nebulous. It's called CHICAGO.
LOL
This is a troll right?
That thing is 3 times the size and almost twice the weight of a 20GB iPod.
I didn't even mention Quality - just storage/size/weight. Surely you can do better than that?
I'll bet the thinnest iPod and the thinnest Palm together take up less space than a modern PocketPC.
Heck, I can fit my old Palm V and my old 5GB ipod in the same pocket of my jeans!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What's that - that smell?
I can almost - *sniff* - yes, like rancid meat and sugar.
Good Lord! Apple released the lawyers! Everybody, run for your lives!
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
That sounds like a personal problem.
If you want to get audio books, of say periodicals like The Harvard Business Review, or Science, you can't play them on this, or most MP3 players. It's acctully one of the reasons I'm considering an iPod rather than a soild state player.
Spyder
I installed the pPod demo last Friday mainly to piss off my roommate (big iPod fan) and I must say that besides looking kinda cool it doesn't do much else. Using a stylus as in place of your fingers worked haphazardly at best, and I am certainly not going to run out and buy a microdrive for it. It's mainly just a fancy skin for a MP3 only player (if it had support for alternate formats, then I'd reconsider). If I want to compete with my friend's iPod, I find it much easier to use programs like Net Use to create a network drive and stream the MP3 wirelessly to my PDA. Sure this limits me to staying within my network, but if I want to go out, a 256MB CF card has more than enough storage for any short trip.
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
> If knowledge is power... explain George W. Bush!
Hey now. George Bush may be an uncomplicated sort, but he sure knows this country.
Repeatedly. In a biblical sense.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Won't be long until iPod is emulating whatever the hell it can, too ...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Almost entirely untrue.
AAC is not obscure. It is not a non-standard format. It's standardized as part of MPEG-4...I'm sure you've heard of MPEG, right? The standards group responsible for the multimedia compression behind MP3 and DVDs? And most players are working their tails off to get support for it, because it's smaller and more ubiquitous than even MP3.
The only think you got right is that, no, it won't play 8-track tapes.
More TRUE info here.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
how is AAC obscure? other players like Winamp 5 support it natively (both ripping and playback). it's put out by the same organization who created mp3 specifically as an improvement over the ancient mp3 format. sure, it's not as widely known by the masses as the term 'mp3', but these are the same people who refer to IE as "The Internet".
Apple had the market all to itself for years because all the other hard drive players used bigger and heavier 2.5" laptop drives. Those days are over. Dell, Iriver, and Rio all have lower priced players built with the same kind of drives and similar form factors. The iPod mini is $249. All the other 1.5GB-4GB mini players are selling for $199 or less. The only edge Apple has now is design, UI, and integration with iTunes.
iRiver iHP-120
Practically the same size (2-3mm thicker), exactly the same weight and capacity. about GBP40 cheaper than the 20GB iPod here in the UK and it comes with a built in FM radio and a great LCD remote.
It plays OGGs and WMVs but not AAC (plus MP3s obviously).
I think this will have the opposite effect of what many people think. PPC owners can check this out, realize it's a damn good interface, and then they might decide that the iPod is worth the dough.
Or, they go look for a CF hard drive for more space, learn about the iPod mini being much cheaper than the drives by themselve, and wind up buying a mini instead.
However, I don't see many people using this *as* an iPod... it's just not cost-effective. I bet some people who only need a few songs will use it, but more than likely those people would not be in the market for a real iPod no matter what.
I think pPod will actually increase iPod sales.
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
are pretending to be something that doesn't suck to use? It's bad enough business relies on the ass of an interface called MS Windows, now they want to foist it on me in palm and phone based devices? No thanks, Apple should make a PDA and put PocketPC and Palm OS out of thier respective miseries, although as phones evolve I would guess the whole standalone Palm thing is near death as is.
I don't remember all the specifics, but I'm pretty sure Apple sued MS a long time ago over Windows, saying that it copied the "look and feel" of the Mac. Obviously, they lost. I would consider this no different, especially since it's a software copy of a hardware interface.
Geek used to be a four letter word. Now it's a six-figure one.
$200 is much cheaper than $400.
But for that $200, you get a warranty. By stripping the CF drive out of a muvo, you void the warranty on the Muvo, and you get no warranty on the card.
Try and keep a steady hand.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
And the iRiver iHP-120 is the same price as the iPod. The iRiver has slightly more features whereas the iPod has great usability and design. That hardly makes the iPod "overpriced".
And we'll drink and dance with one hand free.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
StarBrite became StarDimm - 'Service Unavailable'.
im sorry homer, but isnt that why people love the ipod in the 1st place (The only edge Apple has now is design, UI, and integration with iTunes)? I mean take all that cool stuff away and you have a dell dj and all that other knock off crap.
I know of one 4GB player selling for less than the iPod mini: the Creative MuVo (sells for $200). Of course the 1.5GB players sell for less. That's not surprising.
Ok, aping the iPod is one thing, but in using the HP logo, as seen in this screenshot, aren't they going too far - in fact 'asking for it'? Carly could be the 'woman scorned' here...
There have been many lawsuits (specifically involving Lotus Notes, I believe) over the "look and feel" of software. In the LN case, it involved spreadsheets. The courts ruled that merely copying the look and feel is *not* a violation of copyright law, unless actual code was, indeed, copied (as in cut & paste, etc.) Not sure how that fits into patents, though. -DB in 2004 (Bring on the donuts..)
Google's definitions of unique include the following:
As such, even when copied, the interface can still be described as "unique"
While I agree with you completely, I could easily see Apple using a kind of inexpensive in-between technology to introduce some colour to the display, if for purely aesthetic reasons (this is Apple we're talking about).
Some of the newer low-cost Nokias have pseudo-colour screens that look like the real deal, until you try to put some graphics on them and realize how chunky they come out. It's nice for coloured text though, and doesn't seem to impact battery life.
The iPod is not going to be screening photos or videos anytime soon but it would be nice to have a coloured calendar on there, to match all my iCals, for instance.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
This thing wasn't developed to be "an iPod killer". Hardly. The developers didn't even bother trying to mimic the iPod with all its functionality. What it DOES have is a pretty face. A pretty face and a well-known face. These guys know that Apple's iPod is the best selling mp3 player out there and they want to capitalize on that. That's it. Nothing more. They aren't trying to revolutionize anything, not trying to invent some new killer app. They just want to make a few bucks riding the iPod's success.
Of course, they're probably gonna get nailed for it, but hey, it was fun while it lasted.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
- Brian
"isnt that why people love the ipod in the 1st place"
:-)
Maybe for some of the buyers, maybe even for most of the buyers, but still Apple had a huge advantage because for a long time, they were the ONLY pocket sized hard drive player. People *do* buy Apple for practical reasons too.
>This is a troll right?
No. Do Apple zealots always use ad-hominem attacks like that one right off the bat? Pathetic.
>I didn't even mention Quality
Good idea not to when you're lucky to get a 2 years from an iPod battery (which is sealed, and therefore renders the unit defective and non-user-serviceable -- ie: Broken).
>Surely you can do better than that?
Okay, here's one that is lighter and within a few percent of the iPod's size. With more space, a metal case, removable li-ion battery, and WMA support, to boot. Did I mention the nicely backlit display? Wow!
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
That would be hot if you could change the color of the ipod screen and what not. They need to move to a color LCD version.
Bleh. I agree 100% with the other replies that said this was a horrible waste of batteries and unnecessary. It would turn the iPod from something (supposedly) simple and elegant to one of those moronic CD systems with multiple bullshit coloured LEDs, gimmicky-looking level meters and speakers with doesn't-look-metallic-at-all silver/grey plastic detailing.
If you really just want to change the colour of the display, perhaps an interchangable backdrop or lights would be more appropriate. But I think that would still complicate the design and add a point of potential breakage.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Buy a sony UX-50 and do so much more.
Saw the story on macslash last week and downloaded it this morning. the site was already down but I googled and found another place to download it from. usable enough, I guess. cute little PPC-demo app, I guess. I just got this iPaq a while ago from work and besides the fact that it has no easy-to-find battery level indicator (grr, my ancient Palm has that) I wouldn't use a PDA for music, anyway, but that's just me. mostly I just downloaded it to check it out and play with it some.
:-)
I don't see it in my programs folder but it's in the start menu. without a physical groove, it's almost impossible to use your finger to "scroll" songs but it's not too bad with the stylus. no exit, either, just choose 'hide' from the main menu. not sure if that means it's still running and taking cpu cycles/battery life. plays music just fine, but took a million years to move 27 mb worth of music to it over USB.
summary: kinda cute, kinda neat, I don't plan to use it so I don't care about the outcome of the lawsuit.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Why get an iPod that can only play mp3s when I can invest in a Pocket PC to do more?
I am sold. Guess Mac is going downhill... again.
Okay, here's one that is lighter and within a few percent of the iPod's size
I've got one of those, and it's great (cheaper, better sound quality), but to claim that it's within a few % of the iPod size is stretching it a bit. Every time I see someone's iPod on their desk at work, I think "Ooh, that looks small".
but it's nowhere near as stylish. It looks like a piece of consumer electronics rather than a fashion accessory. Like it or not, the iPod sells on aesthetics more than anything else.
He only has one hand!
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
They emulate a piece of hardware that is so stupid simple that as a GUI it'll actually work. That's OK, not original, but not stupid either.
...
... but if everybody had to be 100% original in order to produce, it'd be a weird world.
Apple will have no problems with that. They may have to change a few details, but as long as this is
1) only software, that;
2) doesn't totally emulate iPod's own (proprietary) software;
3) doesn't insult Apple's product...
there's no legal problem at all.
The only - philosophical - gripe might be they try to run with someone else's good idea, but then again, most everybody does. That doesn't stop people from buying Windows - or rival products that emulate Windows - or downloading Linux, or buying Apple mp3 players, or
You might have an issue with me naming linux, Apple, Windows,
Copying in it self isn't good, copying good ideas is only sensible. In the end, let lawyers and marketing sweat the details, and let us not waste time with these superficial issues.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
It's a mere $20 but this seems right considering it's only software, and it only supports MP3 ...AND because you've already paid for the hardware????? 9_9'
You need a FREE iPod Nano
> Did I mention the nicely backlit display? Wow!
Wow, imagine that, a little blue 160 x 104 display.
You know what would be really cool? a 160 x 128 display. White backlit. Oh, wait, that's already on the iPod. Oh, and it's 4-bit instead of 2-bit (I don't have a Zen so I can't confirm that it's 2-bit, but it looks that way to me). Cool.
You're referring to Lotus 1-2-3, not Notes. No one in their right mind would ever consider stealing that East German war surplus 16-color user interface from Notes. I had the unfortunate necessity to use Notes for about 5 months last year and it vividly reminded me what software was like in the 1980's. The scariest thing about Notes was that I'd used it briefly in '96 and '97 and in 6 years it hadn't improved one bit.
All I have to say is that if the Soviet government had lasted long enough to use Windows software it would have been Notes.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I'm not suggesting that Apple should have rights on the idea of a scroll wheel (although they might try, and there are patents on far more obvious things). But that's irrelevant. Industrial design law specifically covers the non-functional aesthetic. From the article and previous comments, it appears that this piece of software duplicates the iPod aesthetic pretty faithfully, and Apple have already won a lawsuit against similar efforts to duplicate the aesthetic of the iMac.
postmodernsideshow.com
On my Dell Axim X3 playing off a SD card, i can run the player for 7 hours. That is using the smallest 950mAh battery. For $50 CAN (if i remeber correctly) i can get the 1900mAh battery, and get an extra 14 hours.
I've been looking at the iRiver...but, can't find a good answer on how you use it with Linux. What program do you use to load/unload tunes on it?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Personally I prefer complicated gadgets that do lots of things, like PCs and smartphones. So I definitely agree with your sentiment. However the iPod was designed for only one purpose; playing music. The color screen wouldn't add enough for this single purpose to mitigate the loss in battery life.
I just looked it up and it IS pretty nifty. I have an ancient handspring (now owned by palm) visor, and I hardly use it because it is so limited and unwieldy. This PDA actually looks somewhat useful. Granted the keyboard is a bit small, but it's definitely better than typing on my TI 89, and there's always the stylus for text entry. My only concern it the swiveling screen. It is a really neat idea, but I'm afraid that it's going to make the PLA less durable. Still, if I could afford the $500 I'd get one. Of course, I'd get an iPod too.
(StarBrite's site was down temporarily on Tuesday, due to a technical hitch, Kelly said.)
:-)))
Yes, the technical hitch is called Slashdotting here
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
We have an iRiver CD/MP3 player and it's a great little device - smallest CD player I've ever seen and will play up to 50 hours using an additional AA battery pack. The iHP-120 looks like a great device, especially with optical in/out and built in recording. Now if only it would accept camera cards...
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
pPC?
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
>but it's nowhere near as stylish
A valid personal opinion. Personally, I like the chrome look of devices far more than the new "hip" white look (Even so far as to have a 1970's stereo on my desk right now). More importantly, it'll still look reasonably nice after being dropped on the ground, or otherwise scratched, being brushed metal, whereas an iPod is likely to have black marks and visible scratches, which would make it look particularly unstylish.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
How do you mean? Just curious...
>that person's an idiot
That brings me to question #2: Do apple zealots normally consider everyone with a differing opinion, or anyone who is slightly mistaken an "idiot"?
A bit less vitriol, and a bit more co-operation would certainly help bring the Mac into the mainstream, IMHO.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Yeah, but people are buying the MuVo to rip out the CF card 'cause it's cheaper than springing for a 4gig card by itself. Ingenious buggers. =D
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
Well, you can make'em it behave just like a USB drive (just plug it in, mount it, and just copy files to/from the device).
:-)
If you care to use their `manager' program, I've seen programs that let you copy files there too (haven't used'em, since use USB thing).
Of all the players, iriver seems to be the most Linux friendly.
And... it plays OGG!
"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy
Personally, I use mount/unmount. It has a FAT file system so it's easy enough to set up. I manage my music in directories and it assumes the artist/album/song.ogg format. The new firmware updates will actually read annotation tags from ogg files (finally). Some people do more complicated things, but I've never gotten around to investigating them.
A side note: IRiver is now my favorite company-- I burnt out the main amp in my player doing something stupid and they took it back and mailed me a new one within a day, no questions asked.
I call someone who pays THAT MUCH over the price of an archos for the FORM FACTOR a dumbass.
iPod's aren't worth it yet. Wait a couple years for competitors to catch up and make high-capacity good-interfaced devices much cheaper.
In the mean time, buy a cd-mp3 player. They're cheap!
What exactly makes a Mac fan? I have never used OSX, don't own a Mac and haven't used any Apple OS since my high school days, some eight years ago. But I derive immense satisfaction from the use of my iPod, and from iTunes for Windows. I find that they fulfill all of my musical needs. Having reverse-engineered the library file formats for both products, I'm also able to copy music at will anywhere I please without worrying about the weak restrictions they place on copying files from an iPod to a PC.
So..does that make me a Mac fan?
Some things are fairly well provable. Such as size or weight comparisons. That's not a matter of opinion. It falls into the realm of fact.
A quick google search for "apple vs microsoft look and feel" turned up:
The Apple vs Microsoft case did not end look-and-feel cases. The law has grown to make such claims stronger than when Apple made its claim. Apple lost because CEO Steve Sculley signed a licensing agreement with Microsoft that allowed them to copy the Mac look-and-feel in MS applications for the Mac. What Sculley missed is that agreement was broad enough for Gate's and company to copy the look-and-feel in anything else they wanted. Apple in recent years has been very successful in protecting its "color of trade" and other infringement claims. Ideas and concept can't be copyrighted, but original renditions or "expressions" of those ideas can and are protected.
@ http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4107
and
Apple vs. Microsoft [11]. In this case, Apple alleged copyright infringement based on the argument that the Microsoft Windows 2.03 GUI (graphical user interface) operating system had the same "look and feel" as the Macintosh's GUI operating system. Was Microsoft acting ethically when it created a GUI (graphical user interface) operating system that had similar look and feel to Macintosh's GUI operating system? As the case mentions, Apple did license certain portions of its GUI (e.g., icons, dialog box layouts, etc.) to Microsoft.
@ http://www.cafezine.com/index_article.asp?deptId=3 &id=262&page=2
I'm sure you could find more on your own.
This has nothing to do with MS investing in Apple. It was about Windows v2.x.
Me thinks it's you that requires a spell checker.
SteveM
It might look the same, but it can never impersonate Apple's iPod. Besides, just showing it off like that is only asking for a subpoena.
You know how Apple hates it when people use their Aqua interfaces. I don't think StarBrite will last much longer.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Isn't that wheel doohicky patented!?! Lock up those coders. They are clearly obdurate patent-infringers.
>Some things are fairly well provable. Such as size or weight comparisons. That's not a matter of opinion. It falls into the realm of fact.
That may be. However, if you were demanding such an exacting comparison, it's your responsibility to list the exact dimensions expected. I can show many websites, each listing different weights and sizes for the iPod -- partly because size and weight of the iPod have varied during development, and partly because they haven't professionals measuring the devices.
It's a lot like the manager saying "I want software that like Simply Accounting, with similar Invoicing, Point of Sale, and UPC abilities" and blowing their stack when the result is a website that does all those things because "It isn't exactly what I wanted!".
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Yeah, because everybody who advocates not Macintoshes always use well-reasoned debating tactics, and never ever wave their arms and say stupid things. Right.
There are fuckwits in any community. There are smart people in any community. It's called a normal distribution.
However, why the heck does the Mac need to come into the mainstream? It's doing just great where it is. Don't like their products? Fine. Don't buy them. That's cool.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Hundreds of doomsayers predicting the demise of this, and not one mention (modded up at least) of Windows ripping off the Mac interface.
Excuse me...
Apple ripped off HP for the windows concept AND the mouse. I really can't get too upset for poor ol' Apple having the same done to them.
6:00 Wed. Morning, and already been pulled from Handango!
But Officer, I DID read the f**king article!
Apparently my install didn't work right, because the 40GB hard drive emulator doesn't seem to be working.
Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the
>There are fuckwits in any community. There are smart people in any community. It's called a normal distribution.
:-S
Hey, I don't disagree all that much. However, it's been my experience (check my post history... although only the past 24 doesn't help) that 90% of people using Macs resort to "Troll" or "Moron" namecalling within 1 - 2 posts. That's sad, and I just hope the curve's bent out of shape by slashdot.
Or, it could be that my posts provoke certain people. That's more likely. Oh well... C'est la vie.
>However, why the heck does the Mac need to come into the mainstream?
It doesn't have to, but there's users like me, who would be happy to switch from windows, if for an alternative that's as unproprietary as PCs. Mac has a lot going for it, IMHO, but there's enough missing (for me) that I can't switch.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
This page explains it much better than I ever could. The great thing about the fact that it acts just like a USB hard disk is that you can put anything you want on there. Want to shift some ISO images to your friends house who doesn't have broadband? stick them on the iRiver and take it over to him. Although it's a USB2 device it will still work with USB1.1 only computers, just slower.
I keep a backup of my University work on mine, that way if my house burns down or my computer gets stolen while I'm out, chances are that I'll have the iRiver with me and so won't be inconvenienced by the loss of work. (Insurance may be able to replace a stolen computer, but try getting them to replace a 10,000 word report you spent weeks writing.)