Running for Geeks

ptorrone writes "It's certainly possible to geek out while you run and there are in fact running geeks. I started a new resource for geeks who like to jog, or who like me, are training to run a marathon. This month's features: Getting the right shoes and socks using technology, the Garmin Forerunner 201 GPS watch (also using the XML files for mapping), using the iPod/iTunes, with audiobooks as a training aid and lastly videos and photos of the 'Geek Gym' as well as the portable version for checking email, RSS feeds and IRC on the go as well as at home while exercising." If you're having trouble getting motivated, there are people who can help.

Comments

Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

I had to give up on running a couple years back due to a chronic knee problem. No problem finding other things to geek out in, though, such as bicycling, which is my current passion. I've got a cycling computer which has temp, cadence, heartrate, etc. and tracks it for later download to my computer (it's a Cyclosport HAC4) With advances in bicycle construction technology and cycling computers it's a natural to explore and push limits beyond the sweat.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

I am training for a half marathon right now. And I just over came a knee injury from running in boots. I currently run somewhere between 40-60 miles per week. I do a pretty training procedure, no fancy gadgets or anything like that. The most fancy think I usee is my cell phone. I use to keep time and because I run in major metro areas, in case of accident too.

I use Asics Gel Kayano X for shoes, they seem to work best for my feet which have a slight pronation. I sometimes where boots when I run since I am also getting ready for the Marine Corps.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Rotting]

I bike as well most often due to problems with one of my knees.

What I have found though is that rollerblading works very well and it does not have the same negative impact on my knee(s) that running/jogging does so if you are looking to try and alternative...

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[scotch]

With that kind of mileage, you should be training for a full marathon.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[lpangelrob2]

I am looking for a decent digital speedometer for my bicycle, nothing more.

That said, I have also heard it said that there are none. That probably isn't 100% true, as I heard this a good 5-10 years , from an uncle no less, but as I am at work and like hearing other people talk about products (and not manufacturers themselves), anyone out here have experience with various digital bicycle speedometers?

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[jeffy124]

i used to bike, but then an accident broke the brake handle and I haven't gotten around to fixing it. (let's just say then when biking on a city street, watch for people opening their driver side door)

i tried jogging in addition to biking, except I get winded very easily. i guess it's a case of different muscles (ie, the heart) working at a higher capacity it's not used to working at.

now that it's getting warmer out I might try jogging again at a local park. maybe i'll try something like pacing myself so i dont overexert myself.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

I bike as well most often due to problems with one of my knees.

Cycling and swimming are good, low impact on knee activities. Maybe you could train for a Tri also, as that's fairly popular now.

I only do about 100 miles a week, but will be upping that mileage starting next week, now that there's more daylight after work.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

There isnt a marathon in my area til after I ship off to boot camp. So my basic idea is just to run a fairly competitive time at the half.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

I am looking for a decent digital speedometer for my bicycle, nothing more.

I'd recommend wireless, even more so if you're mountainbiking (twigs and stuff can grab and rip wire from sender to head unit)

Shouldn't cost you more than $20 for a decent unit. Good place to check out stuff is rec.bicycles.tech

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

This post is the opposite of interesting.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

used to bike, but then an accident broke the brake handle and I haven't gotten around to fixing it. (let's just say then when biking on a city street, watch for people opening their driver side door)

A healthy dose of paranoia while cycling or running is called for. I try to pass parked cars at a distance greater than a door should take. Not much help where bike lates are 3 feet wide and people park in them (then drivers honk and bitch about you being in the road, even though cyclists have the same rights and responsibilites as automobile drivers.)

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Sergeant Beavis]

I can run but after 8 years of running in the Army, I'm sick of it. I love to ride my bike though. Great exercise.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[spincycle1953]

Though I can run, it just ain't as satisfying as cycling. Cycling has all the cool technology...exotic metals and materials, miniaturized electronics, biomedical monitoring stuff, aerodynamics, the list goes on and on. And the clothes are pretty geeky...it's the only way you can dress up in lycra without making your GF (in the unlikely event you have one) nervous. What do you get with running? It's like another poster said...shoes, shorts, and that's about it.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

We have attention-starved drivers who honk or yell single unintelligible words at bikers. I win because I ignore them completely.

But yes, it's safer to be paranoid.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

Dont forget drunken teenagers :| motherfuckers shoot paintballs, throw trash, full soda cans at you etc. You need to pack heat these days!

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

Cycling has all the cool technology...exotic metals and materials, miniaturized electronics, biomedical monitoring stuff, aerodynamics, the list goes on and on. And the clothes are pretty geeky...it's the only way you can dress up in lycra without making your GF (in the unlikely event you have one) nervous.

A friend just got a custom bicycle from Italy, under the Big Sur name. Totally new steel alloy, it's about 17 pounds. Incredible.

What do you get with running? It's like another poster said...shoes, shorts, and that's about it.

Knowing several runners over the past decades, they can be just as bad. Heart rate monitoring, high tech shoes. Diet, sports drinks, etc. The only difference appears to be one uses a machine and the other doesn't.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[karnal]

And that's what a lot of us are worried about. Either looking more geeky than we already are, or looking like we need to ride our bikes to the nearest uptown shopping plaza to get more clothing accessories... cause, darnit they're just so CUUUUTE!

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[October_30th]

You're absolutely right.

A few years ago my right knee got into a shape that pretty much made it impossible for me to jog anymore.

On a doctor's advice, I took up swimming and cycling and I've never looked back. In the summer I bike to work and back (a total of about 13 km/day) and in the winter when the cold, snow and ice make biking pretty hard for my asthma I go swimming indoors instead.

I know it's a personal thing, but I never realized before that jogging was damn boring compared to cycling and swimming.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[jeffy124]

I tried to do the same, but not all streets have those fancy bike lanes, and it was one of them where I got hit.

But as you said, even when in those lanes, a lot of drivers ignore them in roadway bends, near intersections (eg, when they're turning), and when parallel parking. Busses are a real b*tch (at bends and bus stops), and I used to submit complaints to the transit agency, who always responded by saying they'll put a plainclothes officer on the bus to observe the driver. Never got responses to the results of such observations, although I actually noticed they started to respect my space. Makes me wonder if they put out a general notice to all their drivers saying to be mindful of bikers.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Neil Watson]

Have any geeks out there tried the geekiest bikes: the recumbent

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Sgt York]

Funny how many people have this problem...I used to run quite a bit, loved it until I blew out my knees. My wife got me into cycling, and now I don't even know how many miles a week I do....I just hop on & go.

And don't let the whole no light after work thing get ya...bike to work!

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[October_30th]

A friend just got a custom bicycle from Italy, under the Big Sur name. Totally new steel alloy, it's about 17 pounds. Incredible.

A friend of mine has a hybrid with titanium frame. An incredibly stiff and light frame.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ragnar]

I have tried them, but I recommend them only if an upright bike poses comfort problems. The recumbant bike makes you less visible on roads and is less efficient for climbing hills.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[tekunokurato]

I'd say you shouldn't be biking for exercise where you're likely to get doored. Here in Boston people get doored all the time and at least a few die every year (learned this from nurses in the hospital when I got cut off and run over by a truck downtown). If you're going to bike urban (or downtown suburban), ALWAYS be on the watch. Get out of the city if you're going to push hard and run above 15 mph.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Mateito]

> A healthy dose of paranoia while cycling or
> running is called for.

Thats why I never even think about going running unless I'm completely stoned.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[nharmon]

I was thinking the same thing. I blew my ACL at age 17, and found something that is just as good (if not better) than running...scuba diving.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ackthpt]

But as you said, even when in those lanes, a lot of drivers ignore them

Earlier this year a 19 year old girl was driving in the bikelane on Highway 1, near Davenport, CA, and hit a cyclist. He's still in a coma.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[spincycle1953]

"Knowing several runners over the past decades, they can be just as bad. Heart rate monitoring, high tech shoes. Diet, sports drinks, etc. The only difference appears to be one uses a machine and the other doesn't."

Yes, you're right. In recent years, a lot of runners have tried to make running seem more like cycling by drinking the electrolyte drinks (as if they were going to go out for a four hour run), and wearing a heart monitor. But I agree that the difference is the machine. And what a difference.

Oh, yeah, there's also the shaving...that's pretty geeky too.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Gropo]

Yeah but you then get to geek-out even further by attaching big bright day-glo flags to your rig!

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[spincycle1953]

"And that's what a lot of us are worried about. Either looking more geeky than we already are, or looking like we need to ride our bikes to the nearest uptown shopping plaza to get more clothing accessories... cause, darnit they're just so CUUUUTE!"

Yup. Back in the 70s and early 80s, before lycra, we wore weird wool shorts that needed suspenders to keep them up. Now cyclists don't wear suspenders any more, but Unix gurus do. Also Wall Street types. I guess they want to look geeky like old school cyclists and Unix gurus.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in Indianapolis (and adjoining space) where there's something called the "Monon trail". It's where train tracks used to be and has been paved fairly wide. It's now an extremely long path - long enough to give you LOTS of variety. All of the places where it crosses traffic it's clearly marked, and those coming through the intersection are shown to have obvious right-of-way. You see people walking, running, biking, blading, you name it. It's probably one of the best things they've done in this area. If you're ever "trapped" here for a conference and do like to work out, ask for the "Monon Trail".

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Sgt York]

Hey...all my hobbies are getting in here! I got certified at the tender age of 14, and I'm now closing in on my 500th logged dive.

Now you wanna talk about a tech-rich, geek-friendly sport....try carrying around a life support system.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

P.S.
I don't know just how long it is, but it's not a short two or three miles of path- it's probably in the range of 10-15 miles (easily) and continually growing.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[homer_ca]

My knee bothers me too, but it actually seems to pop and swell more when I'm biking. Maybe it's the range of motion. I used to run a lot in high school and college. I'm just getting back into it now (less than 10 mi a week) and bought new running shoes last year, New Balance because they come in wide sizes. I really should get my knee checked out before doing any serious mileage and I know I have a slight underpronation. The heels on my walking shoes are all worn out on the outside edge.

As far as tech, my Garmin Etrex Legend is great for keeping track of distance and speed, but I do without music when I have the GPS because one handheld gadget is my limit when running. A radio or flash mp3 player would be small enough for an armband if I really wanted music.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Erasmus]

Even good knees can get thrashed by riding on a poorly adjusted bike. It's won't be a miracle cure, but if you went to a good bike shop and got professionally fitted you would probably see an improvement.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Dun Malg]

I can run but after 8 years of running in the Army, I'm sick of it.

Say it, brother. I'm run out. For me, the stupid running cadences won't go away. To this day if I have to run to catch a plane or something, the MP3 player in my head starts up with "C-130 Rolling down the strip..." Argh...

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[JabberWokky]

I'm all for biking, but I really get pissed at the bikers in Davis, CA. The town has as many bikes as people, and there are always loads of bikes on the road. Wonderful... except...

Quite a few of those bikers are college kids who didn't grow up biking and don't realize that you're not supposed to whip through intersections ignoring car traffic. Bikers have rights, yes, but they also have responsibilities. A car driver has to watch for them, but if they cross in the middle of a street, tearing through alleys, they can't be seen.

Heh. This post started off as a point - there are two people (or one person with two recumbant bikes) who ride without a flag. The other recumbant bikes I've seen I think are nifty as heck, and I like them. I almost ran this guy over once, however, as I was turning right and he zipped along my right side underneath my windows. I habitually turn my head (my first vehicle had a blind spot), and I didn't seen him even looking over my shoulder, and I had my turn signal on, sitting at an intersection. All the little kids riding bikes and recumbant riders (anybody other than this guy who are riding with a low profile) have flags, and I've never had a problem.

It shook me up pretty badly, as I really came close to crunching him. At least the bad bikers have not whipped out in front of me yet (although I've seen other people slamming brakes to avoid them).

Bike safe!

--
Evan

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[schovanec]

even when in those lanes, a lot of drivers ignore them in roadway bends

I don't know if it's so much that they ignore them, or that most drivers seem to be incapable of keeping their car between two lines (sometimes even when the road is straight). The guy who's cutting into the bike lane probably has the guy to his left cutting into his lane too. Why can't people manage to stay in their lane? The average car is what..? Maybe 6 feet wide. Most normal-sized driving lanes are at least double that.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is the link for anyone interrested: IndyGreenways.org

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[nightsweat]

Glucosamine is one of the few supplements most doctors think works. The ones who don't think it works think it won't hurt you. Just watch out if you have a shellfish allergy.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

Colorado Cyclist (www.coloradocyclist.com) is an on-line distributor for cycling gear. Their service is good and selection and pricing is very good.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[ragnar]

Good points. I personally follow the traffic rules and am annoyed when cyclists simultaneously expect the right of way from autos and think they shouldn't yield to anyone else.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Mantorp]

I bought a tiny flash mp3 player specifically to use when I run. Biggest annoyance is I can't stop in the middle of a file and pick up where I left off which is desirable when having audiobooks in single files. Should have checked the features.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[wwest4]

not technically a bike, but a coker big one is a damn geeky piece of human-powered machinery... and it can keep up with a bike, too (depending on the efficiency of the rider).

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[hexhacker]

The guy seems to have a pretty cool IRC channel on FreeNode...

irc.freenode.net #fitgeek

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Abcd1234]

Agreed completely. If you're going to use the roads, you're a vehicle, and hence you should obey the same traffic laws. This includes realizing that, as a cyclist, you have no more right of way than any other vehicle on the road.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[SphericalCrusher]

Some of my lazy, hacker buddies love hockey, so that just goes to show how geeks aren't all inactive.

I'm pretty much in shape, even though I never do anything. I can outrun and outjump almost everyone I know, yet I spend the majority of my non-working hours at the computer.

And for another example, look at Tsumo Shimomura, the guy who caught Kevin Mitnick. He jogged and rollerbladed a lot, yet he's one of the world's greatest white hat hackers.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[Anonymous Coward]

All cars and trucks (including semis) are limited to 102 inches in my state. The lanes are about 2-3 feet wider than the vehicles. The original Hummer barely squeezes in.

Re:Can't Run, but Can Bike

[stephanruby]

You must be a cop, Davis - California is the only town in the World which will ticket cyclists for not stopping completely at a stop sign.

Lo Tech Version

[Gothmolly]

Go to running store or good sports store
Buy shoes
Place shoes on feet
Run, during run observe surroundings, smile at people, collect your thoughts for the day, enjoy self

C'mon guys, give your brain a rest from the constant barrage of electronika, no wonder so many kids have so-called ADD.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

Run, during run observe surroundings, smile at people, collect your thoughts for the day, enjoy self

Learn to Run before you do so. To my painful chagrin I learned muscles will develop (from a non-runner) to the needed capacity to run 10K within a couple months, but tendons take years. If you've never run before, start short, keep it to less than 2 miles for the first year.

I tore something called T-bands in both my legs the first time I ran 10K. I had the runners high (endophins) and didn't feel a thing until hours later.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[dr_dank]

In this case, as the parent points out, less is more. I couldn't imagine running carrying more weight than I need to. Besides, getting away from tech for a little while will do wonders to help clear your head.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[nooch]

I agree with what you are saying, but I do appreciate using my Timex GPS watch (Garmin GPS unit) to track my distance and pace. This is a valuable tool for those of us training for more than just a sweet ass.

I am training to do the Dexter-Ann Arbor Half Marathon again. Had a car accident recently that injured my knee, but I will be ready for the June 6th event.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[stevesliva]

If you've never run before, start short, keep it to less than 2 miles for the first year.

YMMV... that seems way, way too cautious. Maybe if you're middle aged and have been completely sedentary for decades you'd need to be so cautious, but as a moderately active 20-something who gets a day job and realizes babysitting a CRT M-F and occasional weekend activity doesn't maintain good fitness, going less than two miles barely gets your heart rate up for any significant period. I certainly haven't trained for a marathon or even a 10K, but there's no reason not to scale up within reason depending on your training.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not ADD it's a mild case of Asperger, dude.

I hear like ALL true geeks have a mild Asperger that often goes undiagnosed.

I blow all my spare money on things from thinkgeek and I wear emo glasses.

I am posting anonymously but all my freinds from the IRC support group #4$P3RG3RKIDZ will know who I am.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[envelope]

Gotta second the vote for the Timex GPS. I love that thing. I just finished my 5th marathon, and I don't know how I would do my training without it anymore.
Sure, I used to run without it, but I always had to go measure the route in the car (not too good for trail runs), or just guess at the mileage. Now I can run any route I want, change the route on a whim, and run in strange cities without too much prep.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[TamMan2000]

It is called the IT band (short for iliotobial), and you were unusually unfortunate to have that severe of a problem from a 10K. Is your form attrotious?

I am 26, I did my first marathon at 23, and I started running when I was 14, but I took 18-21 off from running (and got pretty fat). you should be able to safely work up to 5 mile runs in 6 months, but don't run every day, 4 or 5 times a week will be more than enough for the first year. I would run no more than 25 miles a week for the first year or 2 though...

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Lattitude]

I usually run at lunch time. It's a great way to break up the day and reset my mind. I don't use any gadgetry to pass the time - I watch the scenery and ogle girls. It's great.

An interesting side effect: by the time I get back to the office, I have at least three solutions to try for whatever particular problem I was working on before lunch. They just sort of seep in without any conscious effort.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

YMMV

Indeed. However I've been fairly active for years, but not as a runner. Tennis, mountain biking, road biking, swimming and many long hikes (including Yosemite's Half Dome), but running is high impact. My physician , a runner, indicated many beginning runners will encounter the same problems I had, because they try to go too far, too soon. As I mentioned, I had the runners high and felt no pain while slowly tearing up my legs. Hours later I could hardly walk and had to stop everything for 3 months. I started running again, but only short distances, but my knee was too much of a problem to keep doing it and mountain biking during the same period.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[gowen]

I certainly haven't trained for a marathon or even a 10K, but there's no reason not to scale up within reason depending on your training.

The problem is, theres no hard and fast rules that work for everyone. The first year I started running, I ran a marathon. This was a really stupid thing to do, and I was lucky I didn't do any permanent damage (I've done another three since, each easier than the last, except for the one when I hit the wall hard at 17 miles). The best advice I'd give is get a book, and read up and around the subject while starting out. At the very least, read the rec.running FAQs.

The only other advice I'd give is
i) Get proper running shoes, even if you're just jogging a mile or two per outing.
ii) Do not, under any circumstance, increase your weekly mileage rapidly (more than about 10% per week). This is asking for injuries, and a week or two laying up resting a strained calf is fantastically infuriating, once you've got the bug.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

May I ask you a question? I am going to Yosemite tommorrow actually and a few friends of mine and I were going to hike half-dome. I am curious what kind of physical shape you need to be in to hike it? We arent fat or anything just lazy :)

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ezzewezza]

I couldn't agree more! Running is a time for me to relax and escape the stressors in my life. The constant thump-thump-thump of my feet hitting the ground is one of the most pleasant sounds for me. The only "technologies" I use/have used are a watch and a heart monitor.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

It is called the IT band (short for iliotobial), and you were unusually unfortunate to have that severe of a problem from a 10K. Is your form attrotious?

It was actually a little over 10K and I ran it in 53 minutes. Not a bad time according to my friends. The run which did the damage was on a park fire road (always preferred dirt over asphalt or concrete) with a gental grade (most of which was 3% or less on the way in), also the road was a bit canted which forced my to keep pushing off with the downhill leg, which may have contributed to the injury. Later runs, 2-3 miles 3 times a week were pretty fair, but i'd back off whenever i'd feel the pain again.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

May I ask you a question? I am going to Yosemite tommorrow actually and a few friends of mine and I were going to hike half-dome. I am curious what kind of physical shape you need to be in to hike it? We arent fat or anything just lazy :)

My friends and I warmed up for Yosemite with a few 10 mile hikes in the hills of central California. I wouldn't say I was in great shape, but I had been active for weeks preparing for it. The hike is ~26 miles and gains ~5,000 feet vertical. Hard parts are the stairs at Vernal Falls, switchbacks around the back of the dome, then the final ascent up the dome itself (a pile of gloves lies at the base, suggest taking your own pair) which is a pair of steel cables and steps which are actually 2x4's about 10 feet apart. You might rest before doing this, as the air is a bit thin (~8600') and you'll probably be a bit tired. People get frightened here and often need help getting back down. It's early so expect snow. Take at least two litres/quarts of water and wear good hiking shoes (preferably broken in) and thick hiking socks (carry a spare pair, too) remember to pack some energy snacks, like Clif bars. No shame in turning back early if you feel it's too far. A helicopter ride home is very pricey.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[bwy]

What is more, I see folks spending hundreds of dollars on fitness gear before it is really justified.

I mean, come on, some guy who has never ran in his life spends all this money on gear before he even goes out running for the first time. Or cycling. Or anything. This isn't limited to geek gear though. You'll see guys who "run" 13 minute miles with a couple hundred dollars worth of Nike gear on.

Personally I believe that you put your money where your mouth is, or however the cliche should be worded for this. In other words, grab a good pair of shoes like you said, put on some old shorts and a T-Shirt, and if you're still running after 2 months, consider buying the geek gear if you think you really need it and you think it may help motivate you.

It takes more to motivate someone long term to get healthy than an iPod, or a wedding they want to look good for, etc. It has to become part of your life, part of your routine, and something you enjoy. Personally, I don't see what it is so hard for people. I mean, sit in an office cube all day. Go home. Decide to do something other than sit at a PC or TV for hours. Go to gym/running/etc. Look better and feel better. Repeat. If you're lucky you'll even quit LOOKING like a geek and maybe get a girlfriend to match!

Re:Lo Tech Version

[tekunokurato]

It's not that bad, but bring plenty of water and don't push too hard too fast. I did it when I was pretty young (10 maybe?) and reasonably, but not extremely, active. I think the other guy's post was a decent summary.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Rower]

Personally, I wouldn't train without a heart-rate monitor using the 180 formula. I run with it and use it on my concept two rowing machine. I highly recommend one. When i first got it, at 133 bpm I was riding 8 miles on level 6 on the exercise bike and burning about 350 calories for an hour workout. In a couple of months I was riding at the highest resistance setting and was riding 13 plus miles and burning 500 plus calories at the same heart-rate. its the only tech you really need. Personal note, why does anyone need head phones, enjoy your sorroundings and listen to nature.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Dun Malg]

This is, perhaps, overly conservative. The US Army and Marine Corps routinely render thousands of fresh-off-the-couch slackers capable of running 5+ miles in as little as five weeks, and the vast majority of them suffer no injuries whatsoever.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[adamruck]

8600 isn't really thin air... you can ajust to that in a day. When you get up to about 11000 or 12000 then you can actually start to feel it. Even then its not bad at all if your in good shape.

Last summer I went on a self supported tour through the contental divide. All of the people who I went with were professional(army, doctor, lawyer etc). I guess someone did a study of highest calorie density in food(best power snack food)... and found the result was poptarts. Good alternative to gross tasting powerbars. Cheap to. Kinda interesting... the study was done by some grad student.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Dun Malg]

here's my closing italics tag. Sorry.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoes? WTF? You don't need that shit. I run barefoot like you're fucking supposed to.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[adamruck]

shoes.. thats the one important thing. Everything else is just BS.

If you dont have decent shoes, your going to ruin your body. Try running in a flat soled shoe... or in boots or something. Your feet, ankles, knees, will all feel the resulting pain. Thats even if you only run for a couple minuets.

When im training... I usually run about twice a week between 3 and 6 miles. Before I started track a couple of years ago.. I was running in my indoor soccer shoes. Anything above 2 miles was killer. Then my wise coach suggested a pair of distance shoes.

I have a pair of newbalance 903's . Best shoe ever.

Your absulutely right about being fit as a lifestyle. There are so many easy/fun lifetime sports available. Try biking.. or sailing... or tennis... or golf(I know... I know) ... or even just walking your dog. No excuse to be overweight... other then lazy.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[sunbeam60]

Amen to that, brother.

I've had many friends who bought the equipment, then made the effort. All have failed.

After leaving the army, I put on about 12 kg = 24 pounds = 2 stones and had many false starts trying to get back into shape. Wasn't until I decided to start slow, follow a 12 week program, and just plain do it, no gadgets, no caring how I looked, that I got back into shape.

As winter came closer I had to get some warmer stuff. Now, after running tri-weekly for 3 years my running wardrobe looks like the one my friends would buy to begin with.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Merk]

Suffer no injuries? I doubt that. The military really discourages people from admitting to any injuries, other than extremely serious ones. I know that after basic training my knees were shot, and it took months for them to heal.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[daeley]

Is this the line you're talking about? Do you happen to know how much they run?

Re:Lo Tech Version

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

no wonder so many kids have so-called ADD

What are you trying to say here? Running with electronica causes you to have ADD? But we're not really talking about kids running here are we? Are you suggesting that by runnning we make our kids suffer from ADD? That's a bizarre claim. Or are you just trying to mention ADD in the same paragraph as running because you're some kind of Puritan who likes to tell other people what to do and thinks we shouldn't mix technology with running and you hope to put us off it through guilt by association?

Getting good at sport has involved cutting edge technology for a long time now.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[gnu-generation-one]

"If you've never run before, start short, keep it to less than 2 miles for the first year."

Sounds cautious alright -- I know runners who go 2 miles in just one day...

Re:Lo Tech Version

[natoochtoniket]

If you have never learned to run at a steady, aerobic pace, a heart monitor may be very helpful. Most beginners try to run too fast, and need some help to learn what "aerobic" means. If you run too fast, it will be painful, and you will give up before two months... By using a heart rate monitor (HRM), you can learn to pace yourself, avoid the pain, and get through the first several months. Basic HRMs are under $100, and can't be connected to a computer, so I guess they really don't qualify as "geek gear". Of course, if you want to upgrade later on, you can spend upwards of $500 for a high-end, geeky HRM.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[stevesliva]

Yeah, I'd actually been in the habit of hiking extremely long distances-- half dome being a moderate hike by my standards because of the moderate vertical pace and really excellent trail conditions-- before beginning running. But, on the other hand, my sister ran a marathon in her first year of runnning after a few lazy years after college. (nuts!) The reason *I* started running was just because I realized staying in good enough shape for telemark skiing and 30 klick hikes on heinous New England trails was tough while working full time-- I don't have aspirations as a distance runner, just more aerobic activity. I think being able to stay off the asphalt and on soil for significant sections of the bike path I run on has also saved me some grief. I certainly I had some new aches and pains, though.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Cro Magnon]

Yeah, but they're 18! They haven't had time to get out of shape yet.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

Problem with poptarts is lack of fibre, it's like eating cement then trying to pass it. Ugh. My intestines couldn't hack that compacted bleached flour past the age of 20.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not so much of a coder,
but I ran the 2003 rotterdam marathon.
I even do not have portable mp3 player.
You have to listen to your body,
not to the equipment.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Hiro Antagonist]

Thank you! Shoes are important, but you don't need the rest of the schwag.

Running shoes can get expensive, and are worth what you pay for them -- my quarterly Mizunos run about $80 a pair, and if I run in cheaper shoes, I get shinsplints and knee-pain from hell. Other people, like my boss, are lucky -- he can run in anything without having leg problems, and he's ten years older than I am. But shoes are worth spending money on, just to protect your joints.

As a note for beginners, make sure that you go to a *running* store to purchase your shoes -- not a Big 5 or a Foot Locker. The guys and gals at places like Sacramento's Fleet Feet are all runners themselves, and keep up on the latest in training techniques and technology, whereas the guys at Foot Locker are usually high-school students making minimum wage. A running store will suggest shoes, watch your form, and help you select form-correcting footwear.

So, shoes are important. But don't go out and buy hundred-dollar running outfits, and an iPod, and a heartrate-tracking watch, and all kinds of other crap that looks cool. All you need is a good pair of shoes, some old sweats, and some self-discipline. When you start running, it'll be hard, and you won't get far, but your endurance and distance will slowly creep up on you, and one day you'll realize that someone replaced your gut with a washboard, and that you can run four or five miles without dropping dead afterwards...hell, you'll feel refreshed.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[RevAaron]

No excuse to be overweight... other then lazy.

And no excuse for being poor other than being lazy. And no excuse for being stupid other than being lazy. No excuse for being black other than being lazy. Only reason there are drug addicts is that they're too lazy.

Sorry, that attitude is bullshit. Don't get me wrong, being a fattie has a lot to do with a lack of will, but that it is simply being "lazy" is a cop-out.

Running sucks anyway. I highly reccomend jujutsu or another martial art for nerds looking to get into shape- incremental and fun.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they are around 179.99 to 200.00 bucks depending on where you find them.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[RevAaron]

Also, poptarts lack proteain and vitamins. If you're living off of the things, A powerbar is probably a lot better than a pop tart.

But powerbars are nasty. I prefer cliff bars and these new snickers energy bars. darn tasty, though a bit much like candy, which is great osmetimes and sometimes not.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[The Taco Prophet]

Amen to that. I always chuckle a little when I see the guys at work coming in with their umpteen thousand dollar bike that's 3 ounces less than their old bike.

Meanwhile, had they actually ridden their old bike, they'd have cut a great deal more weight (not to mention the greater strength and efficiency they'd have developed).

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not true at all. The military works on volume. If you get injured in basic training, it really doesn't matter, because there is someone right behind you to fill your place. I have a friend who went through boot camp twice. The first time he sprained his ankle. The military solution for this was to have him walk in mud all day carrying sandbags. Needless to say this did not help his condition, and resulted in him not being able to finish the first time around. Also note that many(actually most) of the people who go into the military have some physical conditioning before they get there.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

Supplementation can help here. Glucosamine, chondroitin, and gelatin can be used to aid in repair, and strengthening of connective tissue.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Canis Lupus]

While I agree the beginner should avoid over spending, I would add that good running clothes are a must. Nothing is worse than a wet cotten t-shirt (whether from the weather or for other reasons!) Look for sales though. A good running shirt could run you anywhere from $50 to $70, but I have found some for $15 on sale.

Also, for me at least, some sort of audio entertainment is a must. Motivating music for intense runs, books on tape are nice for easy going jogs.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[dilettante]

I tend to agree that you should avoid the armband MP3 players and GPS watches, but if you're really planning on becoming a regular runner there are a few items i don't think you'd want to live without.

First, real performance apparel. If you're running for more than 30 minutes, don't wear a t-shirt. Get a decent running shirt from a running store. You only need a couple and they're worth the extra money.

Second, if you're running significant miles (like training for a marathon) then get some BodyGlide. There's nothing quite so disturbing as having your nipples start to bleed.

Third, though it's a bit of a luxury, i'd recommend a heart-rate monitor if you are training to race. Even though it's an imprecise science, heart-rate targeted training will make a major difference if your goal is to train optimally. If your goal is to lose some weight and feel more relaxed, then don't even wear a watch. Just run at a comfortable for however long feels good.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[maop]

shoes.. thats the one important thing. Everything else is just BS.

I agree that shoes are the most important requirement. After running awhile other comforts start to matter as well. A beginner should just start out with cotton running clothes. You may evenually start to appreciate sythetic clothes when you improve at running. Double that if you are a somewhat bulky runner composed of muscle, lard, or whatever.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon guys, give your brain a rest from the constant barrage of electronika, no wonder so many kids have so-called ADD.
I couldn't agree more.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Hiro Antagonist]

I just jog in a cheap, threadbare, worn-out T-shirt -- comes complete with extra holes for airflow. Even soaking wet it's not bad (these are only semi-loose shirts), and if I have to pull one off, I don't feel bad throwing it away, because that's the next destination for the thing.

What really sucks is that cheap athletic shorts are impossible to find at under $20 a pair.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[ackthpt]

Clifs. If there's a Trader Joes near you, you can usually pick these up at $0.99/ea. Which I like, as I go through these pretty quick with all my riding. They don't cover all the bases, but close enough that a decent sports drink mix can fill in the rest.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[danielobvt]

And then you can buy the neato tech gear. (I figured I had earned the right to wear it after I finished my first Ten Miler). Though my first purchase was a wearable MP3 player. It totally kills my motivation. And after you have been running for a while the high tech gear looks good on you (everything from the modern fabric shirts and pants (heck, even the socks and underwear) to the Time Bodylink GPS unit riding on my shoulder.).

Re:Lo Tech Version

[jasoncc]

Your approach is still way to complicated. You can skip the first 3 steps! http://www.runningbarefoot.org/Why.html

Re:Lo Tech Version

[bwy]

I agree about the running stores- some here in FL actually video you on a treadmill so they can check your pronation and prescribe the right shoe. And heck, what is 100 bucks for a pair of shoes when that is literally *all you need* to run? Try saying the same thing about most other sports.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[RevAaron]

Yeah, like I said- "cliff bars." Cliff bars are quite good, and I'd eat them over a powerbar any- and every- day. Some good flavors.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[achurch]

Run, during run observe surroundings

I tried this once, and got depression from all the grey skyscrapers around me . . .

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy shoes

I've been looking for sneakers, but the only ones I can find are

• expensive
• hideous ("half-melted hallucination" is the phrase I've been using)
• uncomfortable

What to do?

Re:Lo Tech Version

[really?]

"No excuse to be overweight... other then lazy."

You don't say? Lets see, I:
1.eat less than 1800 Kcal a day - low fat, low/med carbs.
2.commute to work by bicycle 2-3 times a week - 22K one way
3.swim _and_ run 4-5 times a week - 1K swim followed by 5-6 K run

So, you are saying that my being 15+ Kg over my ideal weight is because I am lazy? Damn. I got to do something about that, don't I? :-)

Re:Lo Tech Version

[really?]

Actually, I like cotton Ts. The level of wetness is an easy way for me to see how much effort I put into the run; T is soaked to my navel, medium effort, T is completely wet, high effort. Yes the heart monitor can tell me that too, but the weight of the T after the run is a "satisfiying" thing. That's me anyway.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[rark]

Actually, I find the heart rate tracking watch to be a very useful and important thing, for me.

I tend to (thanks to years of phys ed teachers telling me so, I'm sure) think that I'm not working hard enough until I've kicked myself into an asthma attack and am half blind from oxygen deprivation. My heart rate monitor keeps me from doing so -- it gives me warning that I'm pushing too hard before my body does, and since my body's reaction (asthma attack and general physical badness) pretty much puts an end to any exercise I might be doing, is a better choice.

That said, these things should be bought or otherwise acquired with thought - too many people seem to think that buying all the accessories will somehow magically make them physically fit.

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Dun Malg]

Suffer no injuries? I doubt that. The military really discourages people from admitting to any injuries, other than extremely serious ones. I know that after basic training my knees were shot, and it took months for them to heal.

I'm talking about serious injuries like the original poster was talking about. Most enlistees don't suffer any serious, long term injuries. How many people in AIT were on long-term profile from their basic training running injuries? I remember one guy out of a company of over a hundred. While this is merely anecdotal evidence (like your knees), one could reasonably deduce that the one guy I saw on crutches wasn't just the only one brave enough to admit he had a torn ligament...

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there's a time and a place for the hi-tech stuff. Especially if you're preparing for a race and you have a certain goal you want to meet. I have tried using a heart rate monitor during intervals and tempo runs to gauge where my limits are and help find 'the zone' or whatever they call it..

The GPS would be great for knowing how far you've run against time for pacing, some of us who drive our cars or carry pedometers around our local courses in an attempt to judge would have somewhat more peace of mind knowing exactly what they were running..

However, my favorite run ever was a simple 4 miler, t-shirt and shorts, no watch, no sound, just me and the run, after a particularly bad day at work and it's times like that that make it all worth doing..

Re:Lo Tech Version

[Spunk]

How can a n00b like myself tell the difference between a running store and a bad one? Are there particular nationwide chains to look for?

Re:Lo Tech Version

[tuxedobob]

Actually, no, you do need that iPod. But make it a Mini.
</plug>

no matter how big of a geek you are...

[enkafan]

I don't care how big of a geek you are, one of the healthiest part of jogging is getting away from my RSS reader and e-mail, and just get my head in order.

Strap on some running shoes and shorts, and enjoy some nature.

Re:no matter how big of a geek you are...

[Anonymous Coward]

Strap on some running shoes and shorts, and enjoy some nature.

Three people lost their eye sight last time I donned shorts.

Re:no matter how big of a geek you are...

[velo_mike]

I don't care how big of a geek you are... Strap on some running shoes and shorts

Some of us are big enough geeks that loose sweats are preferable

Re:no matter how big of a geek you are...

[Target Practice]

"Strap on some running shoes and shorts, and enjoy some nature..."

Please no shorts... not geeks in shorts... ANYTHING but SHORTS!!!

Scratch that - anything but shorts or spandex! Sweatpants work fine.

Re:no matter how big of a geek you are...

[jtwJGuevara]

This is why during my lunch break everyday I leave my little environment of ASP.Net coding, scripting and my bit of server administration (yes, at my job I am a windows monkey) and go lift weights for about 45 minutes. What I've found is that I remain fresh for the rest of the day and my body has it's blood flowing to keep me alert instead of staying put in a chair through the day and feeling lazy. And the best part is that most often times while lifting I'll think of a solution to a problem or a good idea to use in between sets. Physical activity is a great way to clear your mind and regain focus!

Re:no matter how big of a geek you are...

[Anonymous Coward]

heheh....we'll forgive the Windows part because this is good advice!
I too sit on my butt for 8 hours a day (Unix admin) and I alternate between running and weights after work. Without my regular exercise routine I quickly become lethargic and start packing on weight. Excerise is a key component of living well and every geek should try to fit some in!

Geeks who like to run?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who are you really, and how did you get in here? Geeks run only when chased...

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[JohnGrahamCumming]

That's not true. I guy in my local gym explained to me a perfectly good geek work out (assuming you are a male geek):

1. Go to a large park where people roller blade
2. Find must beautiful woman roller blading
3. Attempt to follow her on foot

He termed this the "hare and hound" workout.

John.

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[Anonymous Coward]

Geeks only run Linux of course...

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better strategy

Get a pair of roller blades, especially if you haven't practice roller blade / skate before.
Try to aim at the first "beautiful woman roller blading" you see
Fall onto her. First contact. It works.

"Close Encounter of the Third Kind"

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[bucklesl]

> Geeks run only when chased...

After having knee surgery to remove torn cartilage, I continued to run for a couple years - like 10-15 miles/week. Knee start to hurt, so the doctor said to stop running and get a bike. After doing over 600 mi on the bike, knee really starts to hurt. Dr. says to get MRI... he says that I already have some arthritis (I'm mid 20s) and that maybe I can just bike slower...and his exact words were...

"Only run in emergencies, like when you're getting away from something."

So, I think I qualify.

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[spincycle1953]

600 miles over what timespan? Chondromalacia is a pretty common overuse injury, and 600 miles in a week would be really likely to cause a beginner to suffer from it. Over a month and half, though, that same 600 miles should be OK, unless your bike is not correctly set up for you. If you want to heal up and give it another shot, try doing some weight work to stabilize the knee, and have a good bike shop fit your bike to your body and riding style.

Arthritis covers about a bazillion different problems, and a lot of them go away over time, particularly with appropriate treatment...I speak from alternately painful and not painful experience.

Re:Geeks who like to run?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and how many laps would you say it takes to be considered "stalking"?

Chair races

[Anonymous Coward]

I would be interested in any technology that helps me train for my office chair races each day. I stopped running and walking years ago, now I simply roll. Its the future of america i tell ya.

Just Disconnect!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the need for RSS news feeds, email etc...

The great part about outdoor activity is ditching the electronic leash.

Re:Just Disconnect!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the most hardcore geeks can't seem to get anything done without a few distractions.

Re:Just Disconnect!

[vwjeff]

"is ditching the electronic leash."

I prefer to call it my "safety blanket." BTW, where did my laptop go? No, no. Help!!!!!

Re:Just Disconnect!

[Paulrothrock]

You're not from 'round here, are ya?

mapping GPS while running/biking/hiking.

[garcia]

Basically on topic in regards to XML files from GPSs.

You can map (easily) your GPS tracks via GPS Visualizer. Just upload the XML from your GPS and set the maps up the way you want. It's pretty good for small areas (and can be for even large ones if you fool w/it correctly.

I routinely use the site for mapping out geocaches that I am planning on doing. It does require SVG so you might want to nab that if your browser doesn't already support it.

Re:mapping GPS while running/biking/hiking.

[toesate]

On similar note... not as advance as using GPS tracker.

I had fun collecting the cell ids with my previous Nokia 9110 mobile phone using Cell Tracker (GPL), when I was jogging or cycling or travelling.

Each time a new cell was picked up.. it would go beep beep beep.. and at the end of my jog, I would have a list of cell ids that denote the path that I had covered.

(So all my jogging paths were denoted by a list cell ids, instead of a list of street names!)

weird...

running for dummies

[radixvir]

i saw this book at the library and i started laughing out loud at the title. just thought it might be relevant to the subject.

Gyme?

[nevek]

Whats a Gyme?
oh a Gyme?

Re:Gyme?

[AssCork]

The big building where I was repeatedly embarassed in High School. Where's my iPod...

Re:Gyme?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think you need to indicate who's doing the speaking in that quip.

Heartrate logger?

[ezzzD55J]

Aha, this is sort of like what I've been looking for (while running, indeed) - a device that i can log my heartrate with, and read into a computer later on. Has to be very portable and jog-proof of course.. anyone?

Re:Heartrate logger?

[Dark$ide]

Aha, this is sort of like what I've been looking for (while running, indeed) - a device that i can log my heartrate with, and read into a computer later on. Has to be very portable and jog-proof of course.. anyone?

Get yourself a POLAR computer/heart rate mon Polar Fitness Kit

and PC Coach software PC Coach.

Wait, let me try and understand this...

[inertia187]

Ru nnin gforG eeks? R un nung fo rGe eks? I'm not sure I understand. Sir, you're speaking gibberish!

Re:Wait, let me try and understand this...

[greechneb]

No, its "runnin' gfor(ce) for Geeks"

not "Running for Geeks"

nobody on slashdot ever spellchecks

Re:Wait, let me try and understand this...

[jpvlsmv]

No, it's "Running Forge EKS". The new Enterprise Kde Suite, downloaded from sf.net.

--Joe

Bouncing hardware

[ObviousGuy]

Do you just get used to the earphone wires swinging all over the place and the iPod case rubbing a hole through your hip?

I just started jogging as my exercise regimen (I'd like to be able to finish a marathon before I turn 30) and have come to the conclusion that the Greeks had it right. All this gear is just getting in the way.

Re:Bouncing hardware

[ptorrone]

the ipod mini is on my arm (see site) and the wires are usually tucked in my shirt, it's never been a problem and the benefits of listening to audiobooks / science magazines have really helped me keep up the miles, i'm aiming for 5/6 miles a day during the week and some 10 mile runs on weekends, so far so good. cheers, pt

Re:Bouncing hardware

[rjstanford]

Very cool goal. That was mine as well - I started about six months before my 30th birthday when I could barely run two miles - took me 21.5 minutes and I was anerobic almost the whole time - sweating, shaky, the whole nine yards. Less than a week before my birthday, I ran the Motorola Marathon here in Austin. I did a fitness log, but regrettably only started it about 3 months into the program.

Its amazing what you can do with the right support and, more importantly, a positive attitude. Go for it!

Re:Bouncing hardware

[ObviousGuy]

From a lot of posts here it seems that training for such an event in such a short time can lead to some severe injuries. Seeing as how you were able to run the race in 6 months, I wonder how you managed to avoid the pitfalls that other people seem to have run into.

I'm looking to have fun and get in shape and try to test my limits with this goal. I don't want to end up crippling myself.

Re:Bouncing hardware

[rjstanford]

Good training strategy, basically. I hooked up with AustinFIT, a member group of USA FIT, a national level training organization. And I also did get injured - although in retrospect that was my own fault for not following the program as closely as I should have for such a significant goal. I know better now, and I'm a lot more informed about the warning signs and what preventative measures I need to take.

What part of the country are you in? I've become fairly familiar with a lot of the more common training programs, and I'd be happy to offer any advice (or not, as you prefer)... getting fit through running is, to me at least, surprisingly fun and a great social activity.

Re:Bouncing hardware

[ObviousGuy]

What part of the country are you in?

The part right next to Tokyo. ;-)

How quickly did you up your everyday mileage? I'm taking a look at your log now, so I may find this out in time.

Re:Bouncing hardware

[rjstanford]

Aargh - and I hate it when other people assume country of origin. My fault entirely. The schedule that I used is online here - it may or may not be appropriate for you.

hmm

[Triumph The Insult C]

Getting the right shoes and socks using technology, the Garmin Forerunner 201 GPS watch (also using the XML files for mapping), using the iPod/iTunes...

geek status confirmed

FitLinxx

[tvalley000]

I'd like to plug a former employer, if I may. If you can find a gym that subscribes to the service, it's definitely the geek way to work out.

I don't, myself (obviously, if you've seen a recently picture), but when I did, I spent most of my time tracking numbers and trying to reach level 34 in Stationary Biking.

Running Geeks?

[illuminata]

I'll be damned.

Must've gotten the training in high school...

I was Running

[Anonymous Coward]

I was running and my Heart monitor stopped working, i quickly called my Gym IT staff on my voip enabled PDA and they sent a runner to come out and repair my equipment... and i didn't even lose a step...

Money money money

[Doomrat]

How about a section for non-rich geeks? I thought running was supposed to be cheap. This is the reason why a lot of people give up on trying to keep fit - every guide thinks it's essential that you buy a bunch of crud.

Re:Money money money

[DuckDodgers]

Running shoes and some place to do pullups are all you need. Jog and do pushups, situps, and pullups. If you cannot afford running shoes or injuries prevent you from running, walking at a brisk pace will suffice. You can get quite fit, and the only cost is time.

If you have problems with pushups or pullups, start with sets of pushups from the knees or on the stairs and hanging from a pullup bar for a few seconds at a time and work your way up.

For the calisthenic portion of your exercise, you can do it during commercial breaks while you watch TV. So really all you need is half an hour to walk or jog three times a week. No big deal.

Re:Money money money

[Doomrat]

Thanks. People like you are a godsend to fitness-illiterates such as myself. I try to understand it, but it's all so fuzzy.

running whats that...

[Lord Haha]

Running, marathon, never heard of that... Then again I havn't fully understood that whole fresh air/sunlight thing... *goes back to programming*

Great Idea

[re-Verse]

As a recent newly found running geek, I really dig this. I started running In January, and went from a fairly soft 250 down to my current almost lean 215 (I've been eating properly too, 190 lbs of lean muslce/bone etc)... The thing that makes it easier than anything is the Ipod. I put that thing in, and I'm good to go - the biggest fear is dropping it - read any Ipod forums and find horror stories of people who's carrying cases have broken, and their expensive toys have fallen onto the road and under moving vehicles etc - So i always keey mine tightly clasped in my hands. As fas as GPS goes- I don't need it yet - I use mapquest to map out the distance of the run I just did, and then calculate my speed with a bit of math.

I'd recommend running to anyone willing to feel healthy quickly - but find a good well padded pair of running shoes... you only have one set of knees for your whole life - take care of them.

Re:Great Idea

[gowen]

So i always keey mine tightly clasped in my hands.

Don't. I lost a MD player doing that. I tripped over a raised kerbstone -- your hands got out to protect you from falling flat on your face, and -- *whack* -- your expensive hardware takes the full force of the impact. I recommend a specialised pouch that straps high on the upper arm, and make sure its attached securely.

Heartrate Monitor

[kongjie]

I'm surprised that a geek listing info about running doesn't mention the value of a heart rate monitor. One of the reasons I used to have problems sticking to a running/jogging program is that, unbeknowst to me, I was running way too fast!

I tried to exercise at what I thought was a reasonable speed, but I would inevitably get winded, give up and lose initiative. But then my girlfriend got me a monitor for my birthday and after using it I realized that my heart rate was WAY too high. Use of the monitor validated that even at slow speeds I was getting heart-healthy exercise. It also allows me to see my progress as my cardiovascular system improves and I am able to exercise harder and longer and still stay in my ideal zone. It's a great tool.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[chocobot]

I've read that the maximum heart rate is about 220 minus age, and you should train at 60-70% of that for fat burning and at 70-85% for fitness. Other opinions? My chosen sport isn't running anymore but Karate. I think it is a perfect sport for technical people because it mainly consists of optmizing your technique, which is a very geeky thing to do!

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[kin_korn_karn]

Someone mod this guy up, heartrate monitors are vital to a good exercise plan.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[Patrick Lewis]

That 220-age is just a guideline. There is a lot of variability to that (the distribution for max heartrate is pretty wide). Personaly, I am 33, but have seen a max heartrate of 202.

The only way to really find you max heartrate is to exercise to exhaustion (or very near it). You can do this via a treadmill and increasing the intesity, or repeated runs up a hill (200-300m or so). Also, insert standard disclaimer here about guidance of doctor, etc.

There are the percentage targets you mention, but many training programs divide your heartrate into 'zones', which is dependent on your resting heartrate. Resting heartrate goes down as fitness improves. See this for one example of this kind of breakdown.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[Gkeeper80]

Heart rate is really important to getting a good aerobic workout. I've been running for almost a year now, and a lot of the people I run with use heart rate monitors, so when my mom wanted to get in shape I got her one. It's really helped her to stay motivated because she knows when she's hitting the sweet spot without hurting herself and regretting it later. She recently join a gym call Curves for full figured women and they have their participents use excersize machines for 30 second intervals, then switch, and in the middle of the switch everyone takes their pulse rate and shouts it out. It keeps every one motivated to have a good heart rate, plus the trainers can monitor that everyone is in a healthy range.

PS - one of the coolest geek toys for running is Timex Bodylink. It combines heart rate monitor, gps tracking, and data recorder which all display wirlessly on your wristwatch which keeps track of your miles, split times, and distance. I run with someone who has it. My only compliant is that it sucks for checking your current pace, it'll give you an average, and try to get your current pace, but usually is too far off to be useful, so you can just use the gps to locate your mile marker and time your splits.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[gowen]

They're not vital, but they're extremely useful for a beginner. With experience, you learn to listen to your body and come to know what under- and over- exertion feel like (for a given distance).

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[TigerNut]

This works for going from a sedentary lifestyle to a moderately active one, but if you want to train for competitive events, you need to push quite a bit harder than that. As mentioned in the link provided by the other poster, regular high intensity training (into the anaerobic zone for sustained intervals) increases the lactose tolerance, which increases your ability to perform at maximum intensity. However, anaerobic threshold training is not recommended for people just starting on a training program.

Shameless plug: We are the technology behind the Nike SDM[Triax speed-distance monitor that fits on your shoe, and measures incremental distance from each individual stride you take.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[Mr. Sketch]

My chosen sport isn't running anymore but Karate

I would have to agree 100% with that. I tried a gym membership for a while, but I felt that while I was getting in better shape, I just didn't feel like I was actually learning anything so I tried karate and never looked back. In addition to getting in shape, you also learn lots of cool stuff (pressure points, locks, grappling, weapons, etc) and it's actually useful. I also spend quite a bit of time outside of class optimizing my technique and making sure my moves are fluid and precise not to mention it looks cool while you're practicing :). Any geek should appreciate the technical aspect as well as the optimization involved, in fact quite a few of the other people in my school are geeks.

If anyone in the denver/boulder area is interested, I would recommend International Black Belt Academy

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised that a geek listing info about running doesn't mention the value of a heart rate monitor.

I'm surprised that the geek didn't list one of those funny baseball caps with the cup holders for his 18oz cokes. Running with that weight bearing down on your head has got to be exercise. Heck, do it right and you'll even get a shower.

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[d99-sbr]

I second this. I have my HRM to thank for my aerobic fitness.

Like you say, most beginners exercise at too high a heart rate, burn out rapidly, and lose interest. For an unfit person, even very light exercise will raise your pulse significatly.

This is the primary reason why unfit people who want to lose weightare recommended low intensity training, like long walks. Higher intensity would most likely burn more energy per time unit, but that hardly helps if they last for five minutes.

Using an HRM will allow you to do most kinds of exercise, yet still maintain a good workout pulse. As you become more fit, it will take more work to get your pulse up to that same level. Also, once up, it will drop much faster if you lighten your exercise.

After a while you will learn to know your body, and how it responds to hard work. Watching your pulse vary with the intensity of your exercise is fun, and can become a challenge in itself.

I do a lot of cycling, and now I know that at 140 bpm or below, I will last for hours. At 160 bpm, even one hour will be quite a strain. At 180 bpm endurance is down to maybe 15 minutes, and if I get up in the 190s, we're talking a few very intense minutes before I'm completly spent.

Also, an HRM will help you notice your fitness improving, which is another source of motivation. You will start noticing that reaching that high heart rate becomes more and more difficult. Your resting pulse will drop after a while as well. A few weeks ago I was sitting by my computer with my pulse meter on, and glanced down at it to see it say 46 bpm. That's when I first realized I am now actually quite fit.

So, bottom line is, if you want to improve your aerobic fitness, get a heart rate monitor. They're not very expensive, and I can almost assure you they will improve your workout .

Re:Heartrate Monitor

[balthan]

My chosen sport isn't running anymore but Karate

I would have to agree 100% with that.

I disagree. I don't think Chocobot's chosen sport really is karate.

Awesome

[stoolpigeon]

Running was a big part of my life- but a mixture of fatherhood, getting into I.T. and gaining weight got me out of the groove.

In february I went on the Hacker's Diet and got running again. The running has gotten much better as I have lost weight. The biggest help tech has been was replacing my radio with an mp3 player. I picked up a Nomad MuVo NX and it is awesome. No commercials, no sucky songs and it is a quarter of the size of my old radio.

The loneliness of the long distance runner is much nicer with my tunes.

I am currently working on developing a full featured 'running log' for the palm os. Once I get it past the initial design stage I intend to GPL it and put is up on source forge. Any other geek runners interested? Is there something already out there I've missed (that is open)?

Re:Awesome

[mrakl]

i am very much interested in the Running log for palm OS.

I've also been looking for a weight-lifting log for Palm OS, but with no success. Anybody with advice?

Re:Awesome

[syphax]

Palm log would be cool; one suggestion: don't make it running specific (most endurance sports can have a lot of common fields: date, distance, duration, intensity, route, equipment...)

Re:Awesome

[stoolpigeon]

Good advice. I didn't think about that (focused on my own needs) but you are right. The other thing I like - is that if it is open people can tweak it to fit their preferences. What I want is to be able to store multiple routes, distance, time (including splits) and maybe throw a little calories burned calculator in there or something.

Re:Awesome

[slackerboy]

Right now, I just take the handful of things my heart rate monitor will collect (total time, average HR, time in zone, calories) as well as the mileage and some comments. (I think the comments area is key...)

Of course, I keep track of a different set of things when I use the rowing machine, so some sort of set up utility to edit the fields would be nice.

Right now, I just use quicksheet on my PalmV. It works, even if it's not always the most userfriendly.

Re:Awesome

[31415926535897]

I am currently working on developing a full featured 'running log' for the palm os. Once I get it past the initial design stage I intend to GPL it and put is up on source forge. Any other geek runners interested?

I workout, and I have looked for a Palm app that does what you describe. I have not found a decent one. I am also a professional developer, but I'm interested in getting into Palm development in my spare time (I have a Linux box sitting at home ready for me to begin development on it). I would love to help out--I think this would be a great project for me to learn PalmOS development (I've heard it's more difficult than other types of programming).

Email me, we can work something out.

Bill

Re:Awesome

[ion_ash]

A geek friend of mine who participates in Hash runs all the time came up with a great way to enhance his running experience with mp3.

He wrote a little perl script to measure the bpm of his favorite songs (using spacebar presses during mp3-playback), then he would time-stretch the mp3's to match his running pace and save the mp3's to his minidisc player (though this would work with an ipod too.)

He claims this has really helped him maintain his pace during workouts.

I'd try it, but I'm no runner.

Running is not geeky

[Anonymous Coward]

Running is a purely physical activity; the only effects it produces are physical and the only way you can get better at it is by engaging in it, not by thinking about it in new or innovative ways.

You may be able to "be geeky" about the paraphernelia of running but then by that diluted definition everyone in the world is a geek about something so why even use the word, it's tautological.

No technological, engineering or scientific breakthroughs have ever been achieved while running. No operating system has ever come from running. All that comes from running are endorphins, physical fitness and joint wear.

I think I speak for everyone, ptorrone and michael, when I say that this is inappropriate material for this website. Much like the tablet PC robot, running is largely pointless.

Re:Running is not geeky

[williw]

if i remember correctly, a certain scientist was said to have streaked (a form a jogging/running without clothes) after discovering an important scientific breakthrough, muttering "Eureka" or some such nonsense. I'm sure if he had gear like some of the others have posted about, he wouldn't have been naked :p

I could posit that Slashdot isn't geeky, because (and I believe this to be true as of this point) that no technological, engineering or scientific breakthroughs are actually achieved _BY_ slashdotting (slashcode aside ;)). It's merely people enjoying reading about said breakthroughs after-the-fact, a pointless endeavor to be "informed" of "geeky" things.

Motivation?

[mrseigen]

I didn't have much to get motivated by: I bought a pedometer, noticed that it was a cute little digital gadget and then ran out to collect some data to play with on it.

Re:Motivation?

[Strange Ranger]

> I didn't have much to get motivated by: I bought a pedometer

Wow, how many pedophiles do you find on a normal run?!?

Don't forget...

[WaterTroll]

...to strength train. Jogging is great for cardiovascular endurance but strength training has several other health benefits. You don't have to be a heavy bodybuilder or powerlifter to benefit. Even twice a week is excellent. Many people believe that jogging burns calories. It does but very little compared to a regular, fairly moderate weight training, as your body's overall metabolism shoots up during the process of rebuilding the muscle fiber (please don't nail me on the precise medical wording, ok!). It greatly prevents ostereoperosis(sp?), among many other benefits, and also is effective in eliminating the risks (newly found research, check CNN) involved with the non-genetic diabetes type. You can't exactly mix the extremes of both weight lifting and cardiovascular endurance very well, but moderate amount of both for someone concerned about their own health and well-being is an excellent lifestyle choice. Exercise like jogging releases neurotrophins and promotes healthy neuron function/growth (if someone could elaborate on that specifically i'd appreciate it)

Re:Don't forget...

[MoronGames]

For those of you who are interested in strength training, I recommend picking up some whey protein powder, and dropping it in your drink a few times a day. It is really awesome. Sure, it doesn't taste great, but it really helps speed up the rate at which you recover and the rate at which you gain muscle. I've been taking it along with my normal strength training for a few months, and I look and feel great.

Re:Don't forget...

[Abcd1234]

Well, you're partly right about calorie burning. Building muscle creates the infrastructure necessary to burn calories. But it's the cardiovascular exercise (ie, 30-40 minutes *in your target heart rate!*) that actually burns the calories. The key thing to realize is that it's the muscles that do the burning... so, more muscle == more calories burned.

Everything else you said is bang on, though. Resistance training is an important key to good health.

Re:Don't forget...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to add to this just a bit. Ab training is crucial to any runner. Both for proper form and for easier breathing. (you know the pain in your side?, a couple of sets of crunches a day will help greatly) Also, I'd recommend toe curls to help alleviate shin splints (and ice, lot's of ice)

Re:Don't forget...

[Hiro Antagonist]

Good call! A few pointers...

One: Vary your weight-training routine. If you do nothing but Lats (lateral pull-downs) and push-ups, you will see very little improvement, and might injure yourself. Best bet is to work opposing muscle groups -- so do biceps and triceps one day, pectorals and deltoids the next, and so on. This keeps you from overtraining one group, and gives you a much more even muscle tone.

Two: Most so-called personal trainers supplied by gyms are crap, which is why they work for a gym for slightly above minimum wage. Ask any fitness-nut friends for help with working out; many are more than happy to give advice, and can point you towards some good literature. If you need a trainer, find an independent one, and beware of trainers who offer incredible results in short periods of time -- you will not go from over-the-belt gut to six-pack in a month, period.

Three: If you have problems with keeping entertained when lifting weights, consider a rock-climbing gym. The start-up gear is about as expensive as for running (shoes and a chalkbag will run you $100 - $150), but it will provide incredible upper-body strength and cardiovascular training, and it's fun! I've spent three or four hours bouldering at my local rock gym without even noticing it.

Four: Have fun. Don't do bench-presses if you don't like them; do push-ups or some other pectoral exercise instead. Find a routine that challenges you without getting you down, and you will find it easier to stick with for the future.

Re:Don't forget...

[Lobo93]

Whey is a must if you're training for an increase in skeletal muscle, but as an addendum, and since you didn't mentioned in your post, I'd like to give some further advice:
Try consuming some C-vitamin(approximately 1000mg) and some slow-burning carbohydrates an hour or so before the workout. The vitamin will greatly reduce any soreness bound to occur the following days and the carbo will give you the energy required to endure heavy training. When you've finished training, the general consensus is that you should consume about 30-40 grams of whey and 1 gram fast-burning carbohydrates per kilo bodyweight. This would be something like maltodextrin or similar fast acting sugars which will replenish the glycogenic reservoirs such as the liver and muscles. To get the desirable effect, consume the whey and carbo within 30-40 minutes after the workout.

And last but not least, heed the axiom of bodybuilders preached at the preacher-bench in any serious gym: Train hard, but with good form. Never pile on more weight than you can effectively use to contract a muscle in a proper fashion!

Re:Don't forget...

[jabberjaw]

From what I have heard that should be 1 gram per lb. of lean body mass.

Re:Don't forget...

[balthan]

Aerobic activity burns more calories than weight lifing during exercise, but your body will continue to burn calories for some time after lifting. Overall, weight lifting generally burns more calories than aerobic activity. Interval training generally burns more calories than either weight lifting or aerobic activity.

Re:Don't forget...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Many people believe that jogging burns calories."

Ummm. Yeah. AT LEAST 100 calories per mile run. Probably more like 120+ calories per mile depending on your weight and efficiency. It's interesting that this is approximately true despite the RATE at which you run.

If I run 10 miles at 6:00 pace I will burn upwards of 1000 calories.

If you run 6 miles at 10:00 pace you will burn upwards of 600 calories.

Basically my legs are VERY muscular and I do zero strength training for my lower body. Just pick up your running pace (after you are initially in a program for long enough to strengthen your tendons) and trust me, you will build muscle. And your resting metabolic rate is influenced by your muscle mass, so your lower body contains MUCH more muscle mass to build than your upper body.

I am not disagreeing and saying that you should not strength train, but for time, conevience and money investment purposes, running is by far the best. I believe the only thing that burns more calories / hour is cross country skiing.

Running regularly DOES raise your resting metabolic rate as well.

If you are running at 65% of your max heart rate, you are primarily fat burning.

At 75% you are building cardio health primarily.

At 85% plus you are actually in a strength and speed mode.

My credentials: I've worked at a Fleet Feet for about 4 years in college and have been running since 1990. Marathon P.R.: 2:44.47.

I can't say how happy I am to see this thread on Slashdot. I almost want to link to a webpage that I wrote with running tips, but it's shared hosting, so NO WAY!

Re:Don't forget...

[Anonymous Coward]

The average person consumes more than enough protein. For a casual lifter, supplementing with powder is not necessary. It's only when you've been training for a good while and gains start becoming harder that you really need to worry about "optimizing" your routine.

Re:Don't forget...

[SubconsciousSeraphim]

(ie, 30-40 minutes *in your target heart rate!*)

This is the part I've always had trouble with- outside of buying a heart monitor, how do I know if I'm maintaining that heartrate during my workout? Do I check my pulse every five-ten minutes?

Re:Don't forget...

[Abcd1234]

You just said it... get a heart rate monitor. They're invaluable if you're serious about exercising with the purpose of burning calories. They're also very important if you're first starting out, as you can ensure that you aren't *exceeding* your target heart rate.

What's the Point...

[DietVanillaPepsi]

What is the point in running if you aren't doing it to escape the humdrum life of geekdom? You're never going to get any hotties if you run in such a manner. Get your shorts on - hike them up so that you'll get a tan with minimal lines - put on your non-child-labor-produced sneakers, and be off with yourselves.

Follow the instructions given in this article if you hope to never get laid.

Advice from a marathoner

[zandermander]

Look, I'm (almost) as geeky as anyone else on /. but one of the most wonderful things about running is that it strips you down to your soul.

When you run as much as I do (up to 140 miles per week), you quickly learn that everything has weight and carrying even a few extra ounces (be they on your back in the form of a camel-back, strapped to your arm in the form of a GPS/MP3/gizmo-du-jour or in the form of fat in your belly) becomes a very heavy burden after enough miles.

Don't be like people who go "camping" in their big-ass RVs complete with satellite TV. One has to question why they even left home. When you go out to run, leave everything behind in both a physical and metaphysical sense. Enjoy the scenery, enjoy the air, enjoy feeling the fire in your lungs and being alive.

Try leaving everything at home except your shorts, socks, shoes and a watch (and a key to get back in).

When you leave it all behind, you might be surprised with what you find within.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[stoolpigeon]

I see your point- but here is what I run with

MP3 player- music always helps me think. I keep it down- so I can still hear around me (somebody passing on a bike, etc.)

Bianchi Fanny Pack - for essentials - which are

Cell phone, i.d., key to house and my gun.

The only thing that really adds substantial penalty weight is the pistol. But you know what- after enough close calls with dogs and having to run at night (it gets hot in AZ in the summer) it just seems better to pack some extra weight rather than end up injured or dead.

But the way I look at it- this just helps me get stronger. It certainly doesn't interfere with my thoughts and time spent reflecting on life, the universe and everything while I am running.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[Anonymous Coward]

-----
When you leave it all behind, you might be surprised with what you find within
-----
I've found that academic degrees don't matter. Experience doesn't matter. Tangible belongings don't matter.

Extensive introspection during running has left me, at 28 years old, ready to "throw in the towel" because, above a warm dry place to sleep at night and the desired absence of abusive stimuli, none of it really matters.

+++ATHZ

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[hambonewilkins]

Get a whistle or mace for dogs. Dear lord, why are you carrying a gun while running? Maybe you're joking?

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[nuttyprofessor]

140 miles per week!? That 20 miles per day on average!?!
No kidding? I was impressed with my lowly 30 miles
per week.

I agree -- No mp3 for me. Just shoes, socks, shorts,
and a watch. Sometimes I feel like a need pepper spray
for dogs.

--w

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[Malc]

Do you have a job? How do you find the time to run 140 miles a week if you do? I'm running 35-40 km (4 runs) a week I reckon when I add up the time for preparation, running, stretching, showering and extra eating that it's consuming 8-9 hours a week. That doesn't count all the extra sleeping I can't seem to avoid - I normally sleep 7-9 hours now instead of 5 hours prior to running this much. It's a struggle finding the time to run, work, spend time with the wife and have a social life. Goodness how I'll cope when I get close to running a marathon when I'll running 80-110 km per week (I would guess that would suck up 12-16 hours plus huge amounts of time eating and sleeping).

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[poincaraux]

Are you serious about the 140 miles per week thing? That seems way high. I don't know any ultramarathoners, much less marathoners, who run that much consistently.

For instance, Hal Higdon's advanced training schedules peak around 50 miles per week. I'm sure you know what you're doing, but you should definately be careful.

A friend of mine can't run right now because he tried to combine speed and distance training by making his Saturday runs 20 6:30 miles .. inflamed bursa on his hip .. sucks. Be careful.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[SnappleMaster]

This is America. In case you haven't noticed we have a lot of freaks running around. Unfortunately some of these freaks carry guns. Wonderful, ain't it?

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[hambonewilkins]

I'm not sure whether you're talking about the guy who posted he carries a gun while running or the imagined people he will fend off when he is attacked while running.

This country is so steeped in paranoia it makes me crazy.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[anjrober]

What dogs do you people run into? Where are wild dogs still roaming free? I was a paper boy for years. The easiest way to deal with a dog is slowly back away while saying NO with a firm voice.

I have ran in downtown NYC, Boston, Toronto, rural Indiana, Penn, and Charlotte and never run into these packs of wild dogs attacking runners like mad.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[SnappleMaster]

Yeah you're right. My post above is horribly ambiguous.

To be clear, I believe that anyone who carries a gun in public is a freak and a danger to public safety. I'm sure some gut nut will think: "hippy bastard! I'm keeping the streets safe for this freeloading bastard by carrying my gun!" To which I respond: I am from Canada (now Seattle). Canada is almost infinitely safer than the US and nobody carries a gun except the cops (and the criminals, of course). But even so it is a very safe place to live.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[Cro Magnon]

Maybe I should run in those places. In many urban areas in KCMO, there ARE plenty of loose dogs, and they frequently go after runners. Sometimes backing away from a dog saying NO works, sometimes the dog just keeps coming.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[TheSteve]

But your way means I'd have to stop running...

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[zandermander]

I've been running for about 22 years now, ran competitively in HS and college and continue to race.

For "serious" marathoning, I'd say you need to do a minimum of 40-60 MPW. Elite athletes (read: Olympic studs) run around 100 as a minimum but some, such as the legendary Zapotek (spelling?) ran upwards of 180-200 MPW.

I and some friends find our limit when working full time is around 90-110 MPW but we do know people that do more. They are also probably certified OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder). I'm just a little bit OCD. ;-)

One of my goals in the last year was to see what I could do and I was in a place, geographically, mentally, financially that allowed me to do nothing but run. That was when I reached 140 MPW; I also brought my marathon time down by a significant amount.

For me personally, it was one of the best times of my life. I learned a lot about myself, my training and what I can do (both running and other pursuits). I don't feel I need to do 140 MPW anymore to continue to improve but, it sure does boost confidence when you know you *could* and *did* run 140 MPW.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[nuttyprofessor]

There are plenty of "Billie Bob's" in the country where I run who feel the need to own highly aggressive dogs. The best way to deal with many of them is to get on one knee with palms up -- let them be the alpha dog -- I don't care. Of course, if this doesn't work you may have only seconds to protect you jugular -- I haven't had this problem yet.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[elflord]

Are you serious about the 140 miles per week thing? That seems way high. I don't know any ultramarathoners, much less marathoners, who run that much consistently.

Most "marathoners" are runners of average ability who decide to do a marathon. They are not competitive athletes. Most elite distance runners do 100 miles or more per week. 140mpw is moderately high, but not sky-high. Hal's "advanced" program isn't all that advanced, most runners who race at the competitive running clubs would have little trouble with it.

And yeah, trying to regularly run 20 milers as fast as you can is really, really dumb. That injury is relatively minor, compared to the degree of stupidity.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[poincaraux]

I've been running for about 22 years now, ran competitively in HS and college and continue to race.

you've definately got me beat, then!

For "serious" marathoning, I'd say you need to do a minimum of 40-60 MPW. Elite athletes (read: Olympic studs) run around 100 as a minimum but some, such as the legendary Zapotek (spelling?) ran upwards of 180-200 MPW.

sounds about right. i also think there was a time when the standard german (might've been chinese) training program was to run really high distances like that. i think their standard runs were 40+ miles.

I and some friends find our limit when working full time is around 90-110 MPW but we do know people that do more. They are also probably certified OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder). I'm just a little bit OCD. ;-)

i'm running a marathon in a few weeks, and i'm impressed that ya'll can fit 90-110 MPW in with full time jobs. i'm a grad student, so i work a little more than full time, but i have to work at it to fit 40-50 in. i'm not what you'd call a "serious" marathoner, though .. i'm not super fast, and i mostly run trails.

too much pavement kills my knees and shins. i didn't think i'd ever be able to run a marathon until my wife convinced me to train for a trail marathon. hills can be tough, but at least i can still walk the next day :).

One of my goals in the last year was to see what I could do and I was in a place, geographically, mentally, financially that allowed me to do nothing but run. That was when I reached 140 MPW; I also brought my marathon time down by a significant amount.

i definately believe it. i don't know if my body could take that, but i'd like to try sometime.

i think most folks who run their first marathon are definately in danger of overtraining.

also, now that i think about it some more, i'm definately underestimating the mileage my ultramarathon friends put in.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[elflord]

Do you have a job? How do you find the time to run 140 miles a week if you do?

Can't say I manage 140 but I can do half that. Part of it is probably that he's fairly fast. Part of it is that you have to be pretty serious about pushing yourself out of the door frequently. You can't maintain good milage unless you get out there every night, regardless of whether you come home late.

Regarding the energy it takes out of you, extra sleep etc -- you do most of your miles at an easy pace and this helps you recover better. Also distributing over a larger number of runs makes it easier.

Using the weekend to pack in miles, you can get higher weekly milage. For example, do a long run on Sunday, and the weekend could give you 25 miles out of a 60 mile week. So you only have to get 35 out of the other 5 days.

Regarding "Preparation", "stretching", etc -- and the extra time -- all I can say is that if you're only getting 25mpw or less out of 8-9 hours, that's less than 3 miles per hour. You need to be more efficient than this to get more milage done.

Keep in mind though that going for a longer run doesn't mean that it takes any longer to shower or change clothes or anything. So some of the overhead you're talking about is more or less fixed.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[poincaraux]

Right. I think it's clear from your post and zandermander's post that I'm definately underestimating how much competitive marathoners (and probably competitive runners, for that matter) run. Sorry about that.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[elflord]

sounds about right. i also think there was a time when the standard german (might've been chinese) training program was to run really high distances like that. i think their standard runs were 40+ miles.

Most runners competing in marathon and shorter will rarely run more than 20 miles in a single run, and the 20 miler will only happen once a week. Beyond 20 miles, bonk becomes a problem. Most of the high milage runners run 2-a-day on most days. It's very hard to get over 100 miles per week without at least some 2-a-days.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[Anonymous Coward]

I normally sleep 7-9 hours now instead of 5 hours prior to running this much.

Sleep? What is this sleep you speak of?

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[babyrat]

You are right about that weight - I've learned that even a cotton T-shirt (that gets soaked with sweat) is rather undesirable compared with a microfibre tank top.

However if you are trying to get into shape, then the extra weight really doesn't hurt - if you are doing endurance training then perhaps less weight will allow you to train longer.

Personally I used to just run with a few litres of water (here in Arizona a 12 mile run even at 9pm requires heaps of water), but I got an mp3 player and tried it and find the music a nice change, although sometimes I still do appreciate the quiet and solitude.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

So there are no parts of Toronto you would be afraid to walk in at night?

Get real.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[SnappleMaster]

No. But Toronto, with it's almost complete lack of weapons in the hands of law-abiding citizens, is IMHO a safer city than any city of comparable size in the US.

You get real. Many other countries in the world are better places than the US to live. One glaring difference is the lack of guns in the hands of private citizens. Makes you think, or it would if you weren't such a freak.

Just kidding (sort of). Gun ownership is a more violent topic of debate than religion in this country. I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good luck and keep your gun safe please.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[larry bagina]

Call me a racist if you want, but Canada has a black population of 2%. And a hispanic population that's even less than that. The US has a black population of 13% and 20% or so hispanic. If you compare the Canadian violent crime/drug crime rate to "whiter" states (utah, minnesota, wyoming, vermont, new hampshire, montana, etc) , you'll find them comparable.

Crime, drugs, and poor minorities go hand in hand like CmdrTaco and a 12 year old boy at a NAMBLA convention.

Re:Advice from a marathoner

[DJerman]

I used to live in rural NC and we had packs running. If you didn't encounter any in rural Indiana or Pennsylvania, you may not have been rural enough :). The dogs seldom came to the road or houses.

geek running and parks.

[jonpublic]

this site and the geek running is pretty cool. i am a geek who runs and bikes. the largest reason i like to run is i get away from technology, the comfort factor that accompanies so much of modern life. skip the ipod, the fancy shorts, the headphones, the gps, just get up and go. don't get me wrong, i dont skimp on shoes or socks, as if you do you end up injured, but i like being away from it all. it calms me.

anyone know of geekish organizations who campaign for more parks and trails? we should get together and lobby for it. it will be easier to establish parks now than in the future, as land prices go up. people often forget to plan ahead.

Running geek

[jfengel]

The great thing about running is that it requires so little preparation. No tires to pump, no pool to drive to, no weights to buy. Just you and your shoes.

I come home and can be out the door, ready to run, in five minutes.

I permit myself one bit of tech: a walkman. In the current case, and actual Walkman-brand walkman, but I'm going to replace it with an MP3-type player. Since I only listen to books on tape, which sound just fine at 32 Kbps, you can fit an awful lot of stuff on an inexpensive player. Perfect for three-hour-long LSD runs. (LSD=Long Slow Distance).

Re:Running geek

[Abcd1234]

First, I'm not sure how you can be ready to run in 5 minutes. 5 minutes to change, sure. but what about the 5-10 minutes of stretching and warmup? You do stretch and warmup properly, don't you?

Now, cycling... *that's* convenient. You don't need to worry as much about prep, as it's not nearly as hard on your body (particularly your joints), and you can go a lot further. Yes, I'm trying to start a flamewar. ;)

Re:Running geek

[ordinarius]

The great thing about running is that it requires so little preparation. No tires to pump, no pool to drive to, no weights to buy. Just you and your shoes.

Yeah, the great thing about running, no shoes to buy! Awesome! Oh wait ...

Come on, most pretty serious runners go through a $100 pair of shoes every four months. Not exactly what I'd call minimalist. Its well worth it, don't get me wrong, but lets call it what it is.

Re:Running geek

[Anonymous Coward]

No tires to pump, no pool to drive to, no weights to buy. Just you and your shoes.

I think you're a little confused: that is not running, that is streaking.

Re:Running geek

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't stretch and I've never had any problems. If you're running slowly, I don't think you need to warm up or stretch.

I usually run between 5 and 9 miles at about 8-9 minutes a mile and I've not had any pulled muscle issues. By the way, I'm in my mid 20's, so that could be a factor.

Re:Running geek

[jfengel]

The way I run, the running is the warmup. I'm a very slow runner. I've never had a problem with the stress on the body, but I do seem to be lucky that way. And that's even after knee surgery (from a fall during a frisbee game, not from running).

You're right that this is the wrong place for the usual flame war. That's for rec.running and rec.cycling. I cycle, too: I'm actually a triathlete.

Re:Running geek

[Xeo 024]

I permit myself one bit of tech: a walkman.

And you should, in fact studies have been made and exercising to music helps stimulate more brain power. So, if you're going to go out for a jog, bring an MP3 player/CD player.

Re:Running geek

[Lev13than]

First, I'm not sure how you can be ready to run in 5 minutes. 5 minutes to change, sure. but what about the 5-10 minutes of stretching and warmup? You do stretch and warmup properly, don't you?

Stretching before and after running is a great way to waste time and injure yourself. More and more research is coming to the conclusion that stretching does not reduce injuries, esp. for limited momement sports such as running. It was a tough mental barrier to overcome after years of stretching before exercise, but after 1 marathon with stretching and 2 w/o stretching during training, I can see that there is really no difference.

Note that I'm not saying stretching is a necessarily waste of time - if I was a hockey goalie or a gymnast I'd probably thing differently. I'm also not saying to skip a warm up - start slow (walk even) for the first 5-10 minutes to get your muscles into gear.

If you want improved flexibility, then go for it, but do it right. Learn yoga. But don't stretch cold muscles for 5 minutes before a run - you're just asking for trouble.

Re:Running geek

[SnappleMaster]

IMHO stretching before running is over-rated. In fact stretching cold muscles is a bad idea. My method is to run slow for 5 minutest to warm up. My stretching is done after the run when my muscles are warm.

YMMV.

Wow!

[dasmegabyte]

Holy shit! This is such a great idea, I can't believe it was posted to slashdot!

I'm not a serious runner, but I do have a fairly geeky workout. I have shoes tailored to my feet from roadrunnersports.com, a pretty serious ride computer on my bike, and I used to record my workouts on a PocketPC (I stopped when I reached a "stasis" point, when I adjustment my workout to the point that my lifting and endurance graphs intersected).

It's great to see somebody bucking the stereotypes that claims all geeks are fat and lazy. A lot of us are outdoorsy types in better shape than our peers.

Re:Wow!

[grimner]

It's great to see somebody bucking the stereotypes that claims all geeks are fat and lazy. A lot of us are outdoorsy types in better shape than our peers.

Very true. As a runner and triathlete myself, I see a surprisingly large number of people from tech backgrounds (computers, other sciences, medicine) in these sports. I think it has to do with the nature of the sport. In order to participate in these activities you have to be of a mindset where you enjoy being alone combined with a certain amount of compulsion and drive, all of which are common among tech type. Plus, there is an enormous opportunity to "geek out", get into the technology of running shoes, nutrition, exercise, mods for your bike, etc. It can get very addictive.

Running? (not a troll)

[Strange Ranger]

Does anybody else reading this think of running as something you do only when something is chasing you?

[Disclaimer:except for 10 winter pounds that will be gone soon I'm fairly fit]
For me running is painful on my feet and back. Strangely, it always makes me feel like I need to go "#2" on the toilet. Also, it's more boring than folding laundry. So I mtn. bike, do wilderness hikes, swim a bit, etc. Roller blading I can do pretty well! But I can't stop on them. Not much fun using a bridge abutment as a braking device.

Does anybody have any other ideas for cardiovascular excercise for the warmer outdoor season? Or how to make running less awful?

Does vigorous running make anybody else feel like they have to poop? What's up with that??

The best way to get your running shoes...

[localman]

...is to order them from Zappos.com :) Shameless plug, I know... but how else are you going to buy shoes from geeks?

The system runs on FreeBSD, Linux, Apache, MySQL and is written in perl. The warehouse of over half a million shoes is completely computer sorted by unique barcodes on each box and shelf. The whole system for which was designed and implemented inhouse by our small team (thee coders, at the time). We offer free shipping and free return shipping so there's no risk, and we respond faster than any other online retailer.

Okay. I'll shut up now.

Sorry -- it seemed on topic and I love my job :)

Re:The best way to get your running shoes...

[richarst1414]

For the casual jogger this is fine. For someone more serious I would always recommend local running stores to buy running shoes. There are certain types of shoes which are better for certain types of feet.

Re:The best way to get your running shoes...

[SnappleMaster]

Someone who is really serious already knows what they need, so online could be very good.

OT

[mdm42]

This whole thing is OT. Who gives a shit? Running? What the hell has it got to do with anything? Why on Earth would I want to "get motivated".

Maybe the Editors need to rename this thing "SwooshDot"...

Cheapo speedometer

[whovian]

Check out Midway for a basic unit. i'm sure it didn't cost more than 15-20 bucks at my local Walmart-type store. It takes a standard watch battery.

My only complaint is that when the time hits 100 minutes, the timer (and consequently the odometer and trip meter) turns off. This AFAIR wasn't documented.

Audiobooks/exercising ultimate in geek efficiency

[yebb]

I do this all the time. There are so many things I'd like to read, but don't have time.
If I put the audiobook on my Nomad Muvo2 4GB, and run/bike it makes the time fly by. I also feel as though I'm not wasting my time. I'm increasing my knowledge (listening to informative audiobooks) while I'm exercising.
I highly recommend this.

Mountain Biking with a GPS

[Like2Byte]

I've been moutain biking with my Garmin eTrex Vista for a couple of years now. The best way to create trail maps with your GPS is to bike after the leaves have fallen to get good reception. I upload my tracks to TopoMap 4.0. (Worst. UI. Ever.) Get a GPS with plenty of memory!

The experience is fun and challenging.

Set your GPS to collect current position every 1 sec if biking and every 5 seconds if walking/running. You can get going pretty fast on a mountain bike and long collection intervals make the track on your map seem jagged.

There are helmet cams you can buy from pricepoint for about $200.00(US) as well as lighting systems to light your way in the dark.

I always thought...

[auferstehung]

the Hash House Harriers was the ultimate resource for geeks who like to jog.

Re:I always thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some kennels are grand to run with. Other kennels are full of rich snobs. Other kennels are full of alcoholics.

In my experience the best kennels are either in big cities or in rural areas. Kennels in big cities have enough variety to be fun. Kennels in rural areas have enough "Mom's apple pie" appeal to be friendly.

Avoid kennels which arise from suburbia development communities.

+++ATHZ

Re:I always thought...

[ColdCuts]

Another, if not better, resource can be found at www.half-mind.com.

I agree, a lot of geeks in this non-competitive 'drinking club with a running problem.'

Re:I always thought...

[imscarr]

Me Too!!

Re:I always thought...

[hfcs]

Absolutely!! Hashing was my gateway into 'legitimate' running, some 2 years ago. And I'm running my first marathon (a trail marathon w/ no roads!!) this summer.

Our hash group would give you a down-down (or three) for showing up with an iPod and GPS.

On-on!!

Re:I always thought...

[ColdCuts]

Our hash group uses it as a game. After the hare leaves, all guess the distance that will be run, closest wins a down-down.

Getting Started

[Patrick Lewis]

If anyone is interested in starting to run, I found the Couch-to-5k Running Plan to be quite helpful. I was pretty out of shape when I began using it, but it starts out really easy, and over 9 weeks you ramp up until you can run a full 30 minutes.

No affiliation, just someone who has used it in the past. I know there will be those who say "Just Do It (TM)", but for me, it helped to have a bit more structure than that.

still not sure what the point is

[gearmonger]

if you don't enjoy running enough without all that crap strapped onto your body, you certainly won't do it consistently enough to get much long-term benefit. all the real runners i know (multiple marathons, triathlons, etc.) wouldn't even consider donning 90% of this junk during a serious run.

Re:still not sure what the point is

[stoolpigeon]

real runners? come on. I guess my 3 miles a night is fake running.

One of the best things about running is that is individual. I hate team sports- in highschool I ran track and cross country. There is a team score but individual performance is the focus. It is you against yourself- and whatever works- works. If somebody likes to run w/some gadgets- and doesn't go out and do a triathalon or marathon- that doesn't make them any less of a real runner.

Would you want to wear it all during a race? Of course not but training and racing are completely different things. You do things in each you would not do in the other. Ask any real runner if you don't want to take my word for it.

Re:still not sure what the point is

[gearmonger]

My point was that if you don't enjoy running enough to do it without the gadgets, then the gadgets alone probably aren't going to compel you to keep running. IOW, if running is merely a platform for someone's technology habit, that's fine -- I got no beef with that -- but it's likely to be only a _temporary_ platform.

Keep it simple geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

Good shoes and a watch with a lap timer is all you need. Music really helps with achieving a meditative state (which is the absolute best side-effect of a good run). Dump the GPS, IM, and remote access. Running time is exclusively for you. It's about turning off the thinking part of your mind. This is what gives you the balance and energy to work with the GPS, IM and all that other crap the times when you have to.

Keeping track of your Exercise

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a great website to keep track of your biking and running with the use of a GPS.

It gives you lots of info when you upload your GPS info. endlesspursuit.com

Cross-training!

[Telcontar]

Keep in mind that whatever sport you practice, try to do so only every other day. In the days in between, do something different (e.g. swimming, biking, roller blading) in order to recover from the strain put on your muscles and tendons.
Different sports will use different parts of your muscles and enhance your ability in other disciplines. Also, have at least one rest day per week! Even pushing just once beyond this will have you tired and lacking energy, a signal that your body needs to run its "weekly cron jobs" :-)

why not iRiver?

[coughman]

Not saying iPod is likely to skip music while you jog, but at least iRiver definitely won't.

Re:why not iRiver?

[Paulrothrock]

An FM radio isn't likely to skip either, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have my iPod.

You should still do it right

[Ghoser777]

There's a lot more to running than getting up and going (although that's usually a good first step).

There's...
1) Stretching properly
2) Warming up
3) Form
4) Proper breathing pattern
5) Cooling down
6) Stretching properly again

Then there's concerns about to eat or drink before or after you run, especially making sure you don't drown your brain in water by drinking too much liquid without the necessary electrolytes. You have to watch out for running on too humid of days, running on pavement/cement/grass, running on slanted roads (pulled my illiotobial band in high school because of that once), being safe while running with vehicles passing, dealing with running related injuries, etc.

And this is just an incomplete list of things to keep in mind.

Matt Fahrenbacher

Re:You should still do it right

[3terrabyte]

Then there's concerns about to eat or drink before or after you run, especially making sure you don't drown your brain in water by drinking too much liquid without the necessary electrolytes.

LOL. What are you, a Gatorade commercial? People make their own electrolytes, and if you're a new runner, I doubt you're going to be able to run 3 to 4 hours at a time. Which is the average duration of exertion needed to run the risk of hyponatremia. Anything less than that and you only need a banana and salt.

What, you think people only started running after Gatorade was created?

Re:You should still do it right

[SnappleMaster]

Agreed. It is very difficult to hurt yourself by drinking too much water. But these days the idiot population seems to be on the rise (big time!)...

Re:You should still do it right

[user no. 590291]

It's because their brains are drowning.

Running Geeks

[txviking]

This sounds funny. I would think, we Geeks aren't running. Why should they, since they tend to automise everything. They may be running all over the keyboard, but marathon....

Or does is mean he is such extraordinary in running that makes him a Geek in the disciplin of running? It seems to be a little geeky to have all those nice running aids though ....

Why jog when you can bike ?

[ballpoint]

I don't understand why people choose to jog instead of bike.

The advantages of biking:

• infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.
• you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level
• you can cover a larger area so it's less boring
• more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.
• you can carry some luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks)
• you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can)
• a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes.

Disadvantages:

• need a bike
• bike can break down underway

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[bobbis.u]

Disadvantages:

• can't get to all the same places/use the same routes

Depends where you are I guess, but some routes near me are unsuitable for using a bike on (i.e. too narrow, too steep, too uneven, too rocky, pedestrian only).

Of course, all your points are valid if you are only talking about running on roads.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[nightsweat]

I was and am a biker, but you'll never get your heart rate up as high as you do when you run. I can force myself up to about 140 bpm on the bike and up to 175 bpm on the treadmill.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

-----
Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person
-----
On Crack!

I'm in good shape and will occasionally knock down 40 miles in a four hour ride but there's no way I could bike for eight hours unless I was committing to a cross-country trip.

+++ATHZ

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[pclminion]

Jogging? What's that? I'm a runner. infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.

If I wanted something easy on me, I'd have chosen knitting.

you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level

With the aid of a bunch of equipment...

you can cover a larger area so it's less boring

You don't know how to "get into" things. Running is a frame of mind, not a mode of transportation.

more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.

Why do you insist on measuring the value in terms of distance travelled and time spent? And a runner can slow to a walk if he/she is tired.

you can carry some luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks)

God, none of that crap belongs on me when I'm running. Sounds like you need a whole bunch of shit to prevent yourself from being bored while performing your "hobby."

you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can)

Folks, it doesn't get much dorkier than being concerned with what your clothing looks like. Especially when you're performing an activity that causes you to sweat. "Hey, at least my sweat-soaked shirt is stylin'..." Sheesh.

a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes.

Sounds like you bike because somebody told you it'd be good for your health. Everything you've said seems to imply you don't even enjoy doing it -- complaining about exertion, relief from boredom, physical discomfort, etc...

Feel free to bike, and tell others to bike, but don't compare what you do to what a runner does. It's cliche to say it, but if you have to ask why we run, there's nothing we can possibly say that will ever explain it to you.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Mr_Silver]

I don't understand why people choose to jog instead of bike.

Because they want to? :o)

In addition, if you bike, you're using a tool to help you. When you're running, it's you and the road and nothing else to help you. The sense of achievement is more.

True, you can go further and longer on a bike, but it's still not really the same.

Personally I prefer running because it gets me fitter quicker than cycling on a bike ever could.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[nsebban]

Perhaps some people just prefer jogging ?

Seriously...

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[warrped]

Well I don't know what the laws are where you live, but around here it's illegal to bike on the sidewalk (plus, you'd have to use a mountain bike - very few sidewalks here are wheelchair accessible [which equals 6-inch dead-drop curbs] and the roads have more holes than SCO's lawsuit). Only a suicidal thrill-seeker would bike on SC streets. Also, it's easier to grab lunch-hour exercise by jogging... and it's cheaper, lets you actually appreciate scenery instead of focusing on where you're going, etc. etc.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another disadvantage for biking: You can also get hit by a car. I live in Boston, and if you want to Bike here, you need a prerequisite besides the whole bike thing: a healthy amount of crack to smoke to convince you of the insanity of trying to "share" the road with cars.

-- musides

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Patrick Lewis]

infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.
Infinetly? Well, I'll give you that it is probably easier on the feet and knees, although a badly adjusted bike can be hard on the knees. I have never had a running injury, and that is good enough for me.

you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level
Running, I can go from a walk to an all out sprint. Seems like a pretty wide power distribution.

you can cover a larger area so it's less boring
I prefer to think of it as I have more time to enjoy what I am looking at :-)

more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.
WTF? 8 hours for an untrained person? Come on. Are you forgetting how much your butt hurts after a long ride when you are first starting out?

you can carry some luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks)
There are lots of ways to carry things while running, if you want. Granted, we can't do the touring thing as easily. On long runs, I go with a fanny pack that carries water, keys, cell phone, and I can strap on my iPod if I want.

you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can)
A biker giving a runner a hard time about silly clothing? That's rich.

a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes.
All the more stuff that can break down.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy biking. But I also like running. Most people don't. But so what? Just because you don't like it, doesn't make biking 'better'. It's just personal preference.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[ballpoint]

Thanks for your comments; I think we're thinking along parallel lines (japanese style).

You don't know how to "get into" things. Running is a frame of mind.
Yes I do. Same goes for biking.

Why do you insist on measuring the value in terms of distance travelled and time spent?
I do not. I just like the flexibility.

Sounds like you need a whole bunch of shit to prevent yourself from being bored while performing your "hobby."
I don't need to, but I can.

Folks, it doesn't get much dorkier than being concerned with what your clothing looks like.
Exactly. I can jump on my bike wearing what I'm wearing. No need to change clothes.

Sounds like you bike because somebody told you it'd be good for your health. Everything you've said seems to imply you don't even enjoy doing it -- complaining about exertion, relief from boredom, physical discomfort, etc...
Not at all. I love biking so much that I like to do it in varying circumstances. The flexibility allows me to bike more.

Feel free to bike, and tell others to bike, but don't compare what you do to what a runner does. It's cliche to say it, but if you have to ask why we run, there's nothing we can possibly say that will ever explain it to you.
Touché !

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[ted_the_canuck]

Certainly cycling has some advantages. I suspect that cycling 8 hours a day would be a problem for an untrained person, especially if their bottom was used to an office chair instead of a bicycle seat! For shorter distances with no cargo I can hoof it, but for somewhat longer distances cycling is a much better activity. There are also issues with securing the bike if you want to stop for any period of time. If you don't want to subject your body to the impact of running, cycling is better, but be sure to make sure the bicycle is adjusted properly, and if you use clipless pedals make sure they have sufficient float. The "silly pants" are actually a good thing, as well as the "silly jersey", and the ever important "silly gloves with the leather palms" if you ride a bike like I do :)

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Gropo]

Answer: a fixed gear with a low gear ratio (and lots of hills)

Fixed gears prevent you from relaxing due to the mental weakness brought upon by freewheels: coasting

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Sri Lumpa]

What I do is I use a stationary bike when I read Slashdot or browse the web in general.

I took the cover to change my harddrive off and use it to keep the front of the laptop from falling off (it's solid enough to support the laptop without breaking... so far) while the back rests on the handlebar.

It's a bit harder to type that way: the part of the palms of my hands near the wrists is resting on the bike's "computer" for support which is alright but the same "computer" blocks the synaptic pad so using the mouse is much more complicated (hurray for keyboard bindings*).

That way I can indulge in Slashdot reading without shame of all the time I spend there.

Also, while I generally use the lowest resistance because of the length I use it, it is good to sometime crank it up for 1/2 minutes to give your legs and your heart a more varied workout (and the lowest resitance feels so much easier after using more resistance for a while).

I do intend to combine it with weight training later on but I would like to see how I would look with similar muscle mass and little fat and I don't feel in a hurry to lose weight so it's deferred for later.

* Any advice on software to reduce mouse use on Linux? (fedora core 1, soon 2, or Debian).

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[ballpoint]

Thanks for all comments below. I read a lot of interesting answers to my wondering.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[nightsweat]

I'm not sure that will help. It's not just that you're working your legs harder when you run(in fact, I'm not sure that you ARE working your legs harder). It's that you're using more muscle groups when you run

When you run, your arms are also involved and working. You're simply using more muscles overall which creates greater demand on the heart. You'd think swimming would be the best for getting your heart rate up. I've never worn a heart rate monitor when I've been in the water.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Sri Lumpa]

"If I wanted something easy on me, I'd have chosen knitting."

Don't worry, when the joints in your legs are all used up with the higher impact of running you can still use your hands to knit while we continue to bike ;)

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Gropo]

Personally I prefer running because it gets me fitter quicker than cycling on a bike ever could.

So, when you're running up a steep hill, how exactly are you leveraging your pectoral, abdominal and arm muscles to assist your ascent? Even those silly ski pole things can never match the 'crunches' brought upon by a steep bicycle climb.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Sri Lumpa]

"In addition, if you bike, you're using a tool to help you. When you're running, it's you and the road and nothing else to help you. The sense of achievement is more."

What about your shoes? Unless you are running bare-footed, in which case I bow to you.

"True, you can go further and longer on a bike, but it's still not really the same."

True, you can go further and longer with shoes, but it's still not really the same.

Somebody is gonna reply "feet? We didn't have no stinkin' feet when we where young lads, AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY!"

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Malc]

Cycling isn't necessarily easier on your knees. I had an IT band injury from running a while back. If I run 15 km today I will be tired but not in pain. Since that injury I've discovered that I can't cycle more than 20km before *both* knees start hurting on the outside.

Other disadvantage: unless you get a proper saddle you run the risk of making yourself infertile or impotent if spend enough time on it each week.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you are the exception rather than the rule. I ride a good deal and have no problem getting my heart rate up to and beyond my theoretical max (220 - age) of 185. In fact, I can do this on climbs or flats...just depends on the level of exertion. 185 on flats equates to sustained speeds of 24-25 mph when riding solo. Also, the 6 people that I regularly ride with are the same way - they can hit their max on the bike with little trouble.

You might check out some training books to see how you can raise your heart rate while riding.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

> > Jogging? What's that? I'm a runner. infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.

> If I wanted something easy on me, I'd have chosen knitting.

Wow, that's stupid. As I'm sure you know, by "easy on your feet, knees, and back", he meant it doesn't injure them. Biking is not easy either. Do you like injuring yourself?

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[mikeg22]

infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.
Definitely. Swimming is better than both, though.

you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level
Not sure what you mean. You can run as fast or slow as you want to. You can run hills or on a track. When I want to exert a lot of power, I'll run on dry sand at the beach.

you can cover a larger area so it's less boring
Huh? If its boring, find a new sport!

more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.
Most runners can get in a workout in under an hour. A biker will need at least a couple hours. In my opinion, running is a much better use of your workout time.

you can carry some luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks)
Yes, this is true.

you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can)
I wasn't aware shorts and a tshirt were silly. And by the way, have you ever seen a group of cyclists? If you have, you'll know your above comment was hypocritical.

a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes. Thats true. I have a friend who is a triathelete and there is a definite dick size competition going on for who has the best wheels, aerobars, gears, pedals, etc. These people throw thousands of dollars a year into these bikes in order to save a few ounces. No thanks.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[fuelled by caffeine]

> infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.

If the bike is set up properly and you start gradually it is easier. A lot of riding on a bike that doesn't fit you will not only cause discomfort, but could do permanent damage to your knees.

> you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable > power level

It is much easier to hit target heart rate zones and get to higher heart rates while running.

I do quite a bit of cycling and running, most of it with a heart rate monitor on. My easy run heart rate is 145bpm, my easy cycling heart rate is 130bpm. Even if I slow my running down my heart rate won't drop much, but if I am cycling and I coast a little my heart rate will quickly drop down out of any sort of exercise zone.

I do tempo and interval running and cycling workouts. The idea of a tempo workout is to keep your heart rate up near race pace (lactate threshold) for a fairly long period of time (20 minutes to 2 hours depending on the type of race I am training for). Getting in to and staying in the right heart rate zone is much easier running then it is cycling. Muscular endurance is a huge limiter in maintaining a high heart rate while cycling.

> you can cover a larger area so it's less boring

I rarely get tired of hitting the running trails, something about the level of effort and pace that things go by makes trails I saw a few days ago seem like trails I haven't run in some time. Maybe it's just easier to let your mind wander, something I wouldn't do on a bike.

If you are riding for exercise finding large, safe, cycling routes can be quite difficult.

> more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.

Running for 8 hours is pretty hard, but how many people can really ride for 8 hours. I can be on and off my bike all day, but if I am riding for exercise I rarely ride for more then 6 hours and 6 hours is a long tiring ride.

> a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes.

Not just more interesting, they are works of fine craftsmanship. I can sit and stare at my Cervelo P3 for... a lot more time then I'll spend admiring some running shoes.

Paul

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[quantaman]

I have both a bike and a pair of running shoes, when I want to do something recreational I go for a bike ride, when I want a workout I run.

* infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back.
True although it's possible to aleviate this somewhat by using proper technique and trail running (also make sure you have god shoes)

* you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level
The first part of this I simply cannot agree with, I get a much better workout while running in a much shorter time, plus I at least get my arms moving, doesn't really give them a workout but does improve the blood flow a bit. As to the level of the workout you definately have more felxibility in power though I have a lot of trouble keeping it as high as when I'm running. That alos brings up my biggest problem on a bike is achieving a steady tempo, traffic lights, downhills, technical trails, fun but there's no way to achieve a steady power output.

* you can cover a larger area so it's less boring
It is a little more fun but I've never had trouble being bored while running, this is mostly because of the tempo and running trails helps as well.

* more flexibility in duration. Biking 8 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but running is.
Nice thing for fun but not for a workout, part of the motivation in running is I can get a great workout in 1 hr, this is very tough on a bike where I don't like to be struggling for breath in traffic and trails are too technical to achieve a high enough speed (though this easy to achieve on a exercise bike)

* you can carry some luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks)
I used to carry a walkman years ago then found I didn't need it, I simply don't get bored and find the music doesn't do anything for me, the rythm of running is all I need and I can't imagine bringing a book to read, how long do you pause!?! You should try to pace yourself so you don't need rest stops (unless you're doing intervals) this way you get the best workout, under no circumstances should you be taking rest breaks long enough, and while you're rested enough, to be able to read, the nice thing with running and biking is you can take a drink without slowing down too much.

* you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can)
Bikers wear far sillier clothing than runners, and neither look especially silly while you're doing either (although sometimes a slow person all souped up can look a little silly).

* a modern bike is way more interesting technically than running shoes.
I care nothing about technical interest when doing my workout (trying to pander to the geeks:), with a bike the technical aspect is actually a huge disadvantage, clean & lube the chain every couple weeks, make sure tires are pumped, replace the tires, and countless other problems (trewing rims, aligning gears, etc) bike maintainance is a big time commitment and certainly not an advantage to my running shoes.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your snotty attitude is what running does to people, I'm going bike shopping, this weekend.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[pclminion]

Wow, that's stupid. As I'm sure you know, by "easy on your feet, knees, and back", he meant it doesn't injure them. Biking is not easy either. Do you like injuring yourself?

Of course not. First, debilitating injuries are not inevitable. Do you really think that creatures which evolved as hunter-gatherers are physiologically not meant to run? Get real. Yes, the body naturally, slowly wears out as it ages. And I'm having a fantastic time wearing it out. Your experience seems to be ruined by constantly worrying about whether you're doing things "right."

I love to run. I'm not caught up in this hypochondriacal obsession with "fitness" these days which amount essentially to physical fitness only. People confine themselves to strict, ridiculously boring regimens of training, which are designed to somehow "optimize" their exercise, or to avoid certain kinds of "damage." I think these people completely miss the point.

Running is something I do for my mental health. I don't go 3 miles out of my way to avoid potential injuries, but I don't abuse my body, either. My concern when I run is that I feel great afterwards. An occasionally aching knee or ankle is just a part of the experience, and serves to remind me why I love it so much.

I'm sure you're happy with your bike. I'm happy you're happy. Now, stop being childish by telling everyone that the only right way is your way.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[rmayes100]

infinitely much easier on your feet, knees and back

I have to disagree with the back part...my wife is a cyclist and had a bulging disk in her back about a year ago. The doctor told her after she did some pt she would be able to start running in a couple of months but she couldn't bike for at least 6 months. The position most cyclists ride in puts a great deal of uneven pressure on the disks in your back which can lead to bulging disks and eventually even rupters. Those disks are better designed for up and down forces caused by activities like walking and running not for hunching over the handlebars of a bike.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[SnappleMaster]

If you don't understand why people like running that's fine. People who like running are no more silly than you are for spending hours in sport.

Silly clothing? most cyclists wear padded shorts and a helmet and you're talking about runnings wearing silly clothing???

A few more disadvantages:
- Cost. Biking is an order of magnitude more costly than running.
- Speed. You can't enjoy a quiet forest trail while traveling at 20 mph. (But some people like speed for different reasons.)
- Safety. To bike seriously you will need to spend some time on the roads. Cycling on busy streets sucks.
- Time. A one hour run is a lot more exercise than a one hour bike. For serious performance improvement, you need to spend a lot more time on the bike (maybe 3-5 times more than running?)

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[pclminion]

I think the message of my post was quite clear -- if you enjoy biking, by all means do so, but don't criticize me for choosing running. He listed some reasons why he thought running is "inferior" and I simply countered his arguments. Do I think running is a better way to exercise? Of course I do, and I'm entitled to the opinion -- but I never even implied that a bike rider is somehow inferior to a runner.

Yes, I feel strongly that you shouldn't carry a lot of technological junk with you -- whether biking or running. If you view that as snotty, you'd better stop expressing your opinions in public now, because that's all I was doing.

I wasn't criticizing the fact that he's a biker -- I was countering his criticisms of running, and his seeming need to distract himself from the activity at hand by bringing a lot of superfluous equipment.

Going bike shopping? I think that's fantastic.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Hiro Antagonist]

Both cycling and running are good exercise. I do both.

Running zones me out to the world; it's calming and exhilirating at the same time. I finish my run and feel like I've just hit some heroin; and spend the rest of my day energized. Running is a great workout.

Cycling involves me in the world. It's calming and exhilirating at the same time, plus I tend to notice more scenery. I finish my bike-ride and spend the rest of the day energized. Biking is a good workout, not as good as running, but has the advantage of taking me somewhere. In an hour I can ride my bike the fifteen miles to work without being totally destroyed -- try running fifteen miles to work every day. And back. With fifteen pounds of gear.

Running demands only my shoes and time; biking requires equipment, but gives me the advantage of being able to bring stuff. I can bike out to a park twenty miles from home with everything I need for a picnic; try doing that running.

Both running and cycling are good, but understand that they serve different purposes. Running is intense, but only good for a workout; cycling is easier, and can be incorporated as a good mode of transportation in addition to giving you exercise.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[agusus]

As both a runner and a biker, I think I can answer that. I no longer run because of a hip problem, but I can tell you that without a doubt there a times when I would rather run than bike.

Main reason: pure exercise efficiency. Running is more efficient in that it forces you to expend massive amounts of energy in a short period of time. I find it much harder to do that with biking. I don't get out of breath or get tired legs unless I reach very high speeds (that are often unsafe in a city) or am going up hills (and hills are not always all over the place).

So yes, biking is easier on your joints, but it is not always better. In a city, bikes get crowded by reckless drivers, and are often not even allowed in certain parks. Running you can do anywhere.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[calethix]

(also make sure you have god shoes)

I've been looking for a pair of those.. do you know where I can get some? ;)

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[quantaman]

(also make sure you have god shoes)

I've been looking for a pair of those.. do you know where I can get some? ;)

Sure, when you hit your 42nd stride make sure you can see a dog (doesn't matter if you have to stop and wait for this to happen) then tap twice with the right shoe, jump and spin 360 degrees, jump again and clap your shoes together while in the air, after you land tap 3 times with the left shoe and clap your hands twice. After this your shoes will be in god mode, sprint speed with unlimited endurance and no impact injuries.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[ndogg]

Great, now we're going to have running/biking wars here on slashdot, like the emacs/vim and KDE/Gnome wars.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Something else is you need to work muscles in pairs - biking doesn't do that.

Without balancing muscles, you end up like baseball pitchers and golfers: rotator cuff tears|injuries. Those are *completely* avoidable: they never worked on the "opposite" set of muscles to maintain balance and continued to use the only muscles they needed (to perform the specific task), even if it's in the workout room.

It's why balance plays such an important role.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[balthan]

when the joints in your legs are all used up with the higher impact of running

Higher-impact activities actually strengthen joints.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

you can still use your hands to knit

Not when carpal tunnel kicks in after years of masturbation.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF? 8 hours for an untrained person? Come on. Are you forgetting how much your butt hurts after a long ride when you are first starting out?

The typical slashdot reader is a "catcher" or "bottom" and actually enjoys anal pain.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ?

[Sri Lumpa]

Doesn't it also pose a greater risk of arthritis?

Anyway, I am not especially for or against running/cycling.

Both are better than being a fat couch potatoe and they give different tradeoffs.

Anyway, HAND YHNBT (Have A Nice Day, You Have Not Been Trolled, at least not by me).

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[Gudlyf]

How about the mini-HD skipping from jogging? Honestly, this is the only reason I haven't switched from solid-state media to the iPod yet. I don't want to shell out the cash for a nice iPod for jogging, only to find out I was smashing the disk heads with every bounce and rendered the unit dead in a year.

Also, I'm a geocacher and used to have a Garmin eTrex GPS. I found that it cut out WAY too often and therefore was inaccurate with distance calculations. Since switching to the Magellan Meridian Platinum, I've never looked back at the Garmin. So, how does the Garmin GPS for jogging fare?

Looks like he's tired

[M.C. Hampster]

What is this obsession with creating an entire web page with no capitalization? The use of lowercase for design reasons should have been something that died with the dot-com era.

Or perhaps after all that exercise he's just too tired to use the SHIFT key. ;-)

Some non-tech advice

[crighton]

Running is one of the easier and cheaper endurance sports to get into. I've gone from road races to multi-sport events just to keep it interesting though. Adventure racing is my new found passion and oh.... the potential for geek gear!

But some words of advice on running (from someone who's been running for 15 years).
1. START SLOW! The worst thing I've seen people do is start with too many miles or too fast a pace. Add no more than 10% every 2 weeks.

2. STRETCHHHHHHH! This is a continual problem for me. Every runner has tight hamstrings, calves. Watch out for that it-band too.

3. Get good shoes, replace them frequently- those $100 running shoes are only good for 150 miles max.

4. Rest - absolutely no running at least 1 day a week. Cross train another day too.

5. Don't overtrain - if you notice changes in your resting heartrate (when you first wake up or after lying down for 20 min), loss of sex drive, loss of appetite, trouble sleeping, or constant fatigue - take a few days off. You're not giving your body enough time to recover

Swimming!!!

[tickleboy2]

I tend to enjoy swimming more than running because if much lower impact on your joints so you don't end up with knee problems if you don't buy new shoes every 9 months. Plus swimming is a great aerobic workout that builds muscle as well.

Of course this means you have to actually get into a swimsuit and go out in public which probably scares the crap out of most slashdotters. But if you can get yourself out there you can bet on seeing some sweet swim chicks in lyrca! ;)

Re:Swimming!!!

[tuxette]

I used to swim 2000-5000 meters a day, 5-6 days a week. Crawl. My left rotator cuff is destroyed, the right is on its way to getting back at me for what I did in my stupid youth.

Re:Swimming!!!

[Paulrothrock]

Electronics + water = Unhappy slashdotter.

flash memory based player?

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't the mini ipod using a harddrive? doesn't sound like a good idea to me to use it while running.

iPods

[Rank Amateur]

Unless you like the sounds of raw automobile metal crushing against human bone, nix the iPod (even for audiobooks, the author's favorite). iPods are okay for running on tracks, treadmills, and in the woods, of course. But if your running on a street with any amount of traffic, you'll need full hearing capacity to be sensitive to cars -- especially in this age of ultra-quiet engines, like those in Lexuses and gas-electric hybrids.

Road running is one of the most dangerous sports in the country, because it's one of the
few sports accomplished in an evironment in which cars outnumber people. More seasoned runners die of car accidents than heart attacks. All runners can attest to scary close calls with cars.

Your best bet is to consider running a time for meditation, which it is very conducive to -- if you're on the road for 2 1/2 hours, with no tv, no radio, no net, it frees the mind to expore places that you wouldn't go to otherwise. That, combined with the long-distance runner's high, is why P. Diddy, while prepping for the NY marathon, commented that "At 17 miles, you talk to the angels."

Re:iPods

[Anonymous Coward]

-----
if your running on a street with any amount of traffic, you'll need full hearing capacity to be sensitive to cars
-----
1. Go running
2. Get hit by car
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

If 3. results in death then it doesn't matter anyways. At least you'll be enjoying your favorite tunes.

+++ATHZ

Re:iPods

[ptorrone]

i run on 27 miles of car free paved trails in seattle, wa (the burke-gilman). it's on my site. cheers, pt.

Re:iPods

[FreeBSDbigot]

I wish I hadn't posted to this thread, so I could mod the parent up. This is a VERY IMPORTANT POINT. Don't endanger yourself by drowning out the sounds of traffic. It's a good way to stop your running career in a hurry.

In all of the countless hours I've run, I've never once run out of things to think about, or wished that I had some music to distract me.

everyone knows

[pizza_milkshake]

geeks only run when being chased.

Other tech

[crighton]

There's a whole world of running tech out there, it's not just electronic. Designed fabrics, fuel, and other gear can make you a better runner (or other endurance athelete)

Some additional running tech that I've found useful

1. Thorlo socks - The ultimate sock, great cushioning, wicking, everything to keep your feet happy.

2. Drylete fabrics - Make sure you get wicking fabrics to keep you dry and warm. Cotton acts like a sweat sponge and gets heavy and clammy

3. Polar heartrate monitors - They'll keep you from training too hard, and let you know when you're overtraining (You're resting heartrate will elevate when you're overtraining)

4. Cytomax fuel - You need to keep hydrated and going strong. It's got a modified carb that burns clean with lower lactic acid build up. I didn't believe it at first, but it really does work!

Garmin Forerunner 201

[FreeBSDbigot]

The Garmin Forerunner 201 this guy mentions really is a nice gadget. I've had mine for two weeks, and I love it. But if he thinks that the "virtual parter" is the best feature, then I suspect he's more of a geek than a runner. In my opinion, it's just a gimmick. You enter some combination of desired pace, time, or distance, and it shows two little glyphs running across the screen, one representing you and one representing your goal. Silly. Why not just use the pace, time, and distance numbers that the Forerunner shows?

My favorite feature (so far; I haven't explored everything it does) is "auto-lap," which gives me my lap times for each kilometer (or any arbitrary distance) I run. One important running skill I haven't mastered is keeping control of my pace; auto-lap really helps. I suppose the virtual running partner does that, too, in a limited, on-the-fly way, but I need something that I can use while I run AND review later. Auto-lap does that.

debunking the fat burn zone myth

[tuxette]

read here!

Re:debunking the fat burn zone myth

[Anonymous Coward]

It all depends on what you're after. I do triathlons and have competed in (survived?) an Ironman. For those kinds of distances it is crucial that you have a strong aerobic base and don't overtrain. Here are two articles on the subject (the second, by Mark Allen who was arguably the fittest person ever).

http://www.rrca.org/publicat/slowdown.html

http://www.xtri.com/article.asp?id=448&offset= 0

Slashdot readers know

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

That Geeks only run via their MMORPG, or their Soldier in UT, counterstrike, Quake etc.

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[ptorrone]

my mini has never skipped, i've used 2-3 ipods over the last couple years and if you wear them on your arm (that's what i do) i don't think they'll ever skip. i have worn them on my waist, while i've never had a skip on that either, i suspect that would be the way it might if you have a lot of jarring motion. cheers, ot. as far as the gps goes, the garmin forerunner 201 uses WAAS so that means it is accurate within 3 meters, i've found it to be one of the most accurate gps units i've used, and i currently use about 4/5. cheers, pt.

2 Things

[stoolpigeon]

No - I'm dead serious- I'm not gonna get into the whole gun rights debate- but I carry pretty much wherever it is legal to do so. My fanny pack holster is designed just for this kind of thing.

This whole overrated is not metamoderated thing sucks. How on earth can my post - that hasn't been modded up be overrated? It pisses me off- and usually I just blow it off- but moderation abuse is worse than trolls as far as I am concerned.

Re:2 Things

[nojomofo]

Not weighing into the gun discussion at all (though I certainly have opinions about that!), but weighing in on the overrated thing. Sometimes I think that a comment is so bad that it's overrated if it has not been modded down. So its default score of 1 is too high, thus it's overrated.

Re:2 Things

[Anonymous Coward]

Shock! the guy with a gun is getting so pissed off at moderation he can hardly contain himself. This is why guns should be outlawed.

Re:2 Things

[Anonymous Coward]

PS I posted as AC (which I normally don't do) since we are talking about a nut with a gun.

Coolrunning.com

[nightsweat]

I'm doing the Couch to 5K plan from the Cool Running site. It's designed to get you from amoebic blob to able to run a 5K race in 9 weeks. I'm repeating a week because my schedule stopped me from running two of the three days I was supposed to last week, but I've already made huge strides (no pun intended).

Coolrunning.com
Couch to 5K Plan

Once you finish the 5K plan, there are programs to help you improve your 5K run times, move on to a 10K, half marathon, marathon, and 50k race. The people on the forums are supportive and non-judgemental and they are eager to give you advice on stretches, technique, injury prevention, equipment, and all other running-related topics.

No disclaimer needed. I'm not associated with the site or anyone on it except for the fact I am doing and enjoying the Couch to 5K program.

Re:You can also swim...

[nine4mortal]

Don't forget swimming, the third leg of the triathlon, and by many accounts the best overall form of exercise of the three. Swimming is extremely low impact and works your entire body. Of course the technology is less of an issue in swimming. On the plus side, there are athletes like Amanda Beard to give you *real* inspiration.

If you live some place cold, then cross country skiing is pretty good too, and has some interesting technology.

Forerunner201

[CheapScott]

I bought a Forerunner201 several weeks ago. I like it a lot. It's great since (1) I don't have to calibrate it to my stride, (2) I keeps track of altitude changes.

It's generally very light...though a bit long. I wear mine up on my forearm. It's not uncomfortable, though.

I run with a friend before work each morning and he bought one, too. It's a little funny, though, we will get different results...sometimes off by .10 mile after a 5 mile jog. Part of it might be due to he hasn't updated his firmware while I have.

I also have used mine for road bicycling. I really want to use it for mountain biking, but it hasn't really been dry enough yet (without chewing-up the trails too much).

Someone mentioned earlier about jogging with a walkman/cdplayer that would chew through their hip. You might try a hip-mounted fanny-pack from Camelbak. I took out the water bladder from mine and carry whatever in it. It's padded so it'll hopefully not chew the hip too much.

Why I still jog

[Anonymous Coward]

As I ease into middle age, I am forced to lower the distance I've been running, and biking is a great alternative that I recommend at every opportunity. Despite my increase in cycling, I still long for the meditative state that jogging induces in me. I find it kicks in almost immediately. Cycling requires all-day 70+ miles treks to get me in the same zone. The post workout high of even a short jog is much better than cycling. And I also feel more a part of the environment I jog through, as opposed to when I'm breezing through on my bike.

Running gear

[microbrew_nj]

I run, but to train for playing soccer in a competitive adult rec league. Also, I also prefer trail running. I've been thinking of upgrading my training equipment. Currently, I have a sports radio strapped to the upper arm, a cell phone strapped to the other upper arm (for emergencies only), and heart rate monitor. For non-electronics, there's the clothing made of hi-tech moisture wicking material. That Garmin GPS unit looks sweet, and I'm looking at upgrading the sports radio to a flash MP3 or iPod.

A few suggestions

[agslashdot]

From your site - "I try and run/bike/workout for at least 30 to 45 minutes a day"

I began just like you did and made rapid progress, but then plateaued. Here's what works for me now -

a.Skip every other day. The muscles need atleast 24 hours to repair. By working them every day, you are overtaxing them. You will plateau, it is a certainity - ask any fitness specialist or your doctor.

b. When you do run/bike/workout, up the intensity and/or duration. Rather than 30 minutes, shoot for 1 hour, then 2.

c. Best to invest in an elliptical .Since your feet don't touch the ground on an elliptical, you don't bust your knees. At the same time you build rock-hard legs. Plus, you get to vary the intensity on an elliptical by changing the resistance & the incline - very effective.

d. Audio books are a great way to learn something while chugging away on an elliptical. I have loaded up on about 50 hours of philosophy - Locke, Kant, Hume, Hobbes, Machiavelli, Marx, and yes, the usual suspects - Socrates, Plato & Aristotle. As geeks, we are constantly upgrading "tech skills" ( Perl, Java, C++, C# etc. ) while neglecting "life-skills". A sound foundation in philosophy comes in handy like nothing else. Even if you don't care for the subject, you learn things like argumentation, dialectic, persuasion theories, burden of rejoinder...essential skills for making your point when you talk to anybody.

Best elliptical scores so far, at different levels -

3 hours, 19 miles, 2400 calories

1 hour, 7 miles, 950 calories

0.5 hour, 450 calories

Good luck, and watch that caffeine !



They can outsource me, but can they outrun me?:)

Re:A few suggestions

[Your_Mom]

Seconded.
I started working out at the begining of this year and absolutely fell in love with my gym's elliptical (Precor 544efx). Easy to work on, works up a nice sweat, and burns calories like there's no tommorow. It's fantastic and I would love to get one for home.

Re:A few suggestions

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Er...Kant is hard to understand when I'm concentrating my hardest. I can't imagine making sense of it when sweating like a pig and gasping for breath. Are you sure you actually absorbed what you were hearing?

If you want audio books I suggest episodes of This American Life instead. If you pay you can get versions from Audible.

Re:A few suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just wondering what the programing examples from one of the C books (or worse perl) would sound like.

Re:A few suggestions

[ThatWhichDoesNotKill]

Do you automatically get the lecture titles from when you rip the Learning Company CDs to mp3? I don't.

Re:A few suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

The learning company CDs are not easily rippable to mp3. This is what I did - first rip to WMA using Windows Media Player. Then convert WMA to MP3 using "Advanced Encode Decode" from mediatwins.com You still get audio glitches, but it works mostly. posting anonymously for obvious reasons...

Re:A few suggestions

[skeeter17]

I have never enjoyed elipticals. I am on my schools XC, and track teams, so i run alot, however, in the winter, i wrestle and cut weight, and whenever i have the choice between a treadmill and an eliptical the treadmill takes the win.

Treadmills are much more versitile and adaptable. I find that when i am doing a workout on an elliptical, my stride is limited.

How ellipticals limit your stride cannot be healthy. And if you run competitively, it upsets your stride badly.

(just my humble opinion)

skeeter

Re:A few suggestions

[sgtrock]

2 freaking hours a day??? Not hard to tell that you don't have kids. :)

Seriously, there's no way I can find even an hour a day to exercise. On a good day, my commute is an hour and 10 minutes one way. On a bad day it can be an hour and 30 minutes. I do this four days a week, and work from home on Fridays.

I'm a single dad. When I get home, I've got two kids (ages 9 and 14) to take care of. I have to give them the love and attention that they deserve. Then there's the household chores, two cats, and a dog that also need my attention. 2 hours a day for exercise? Puh-leaze!

I aim for 20 to 30 minutes 6 days a week. Generally, I actually manage to get that time period in 3 to 4 days a week. I alternate running and lifting weights, concentrating on the upper body. This lets my leg muscles recover when I weightlift, and my upper body recover when I run.

Even such a 'minimal' schedule will yield good results over time, though. I used to run and do basic calesthenics every day while I was in the Navy. When I got out, I got lazy and didn't work out for 20 years. That meant that when I started up again (with a stronger emphasis on weights) two years ago, I was essentially starting over from nothing. I'm now running 2 miles at a 9:30 min/mi pace (well off the 6:10 min/mi over 3 miles that I ran 20+ years ago) and bench pressing 95 lbs (more than I've ever lifted).

The point is; any exercise is better than none. Suggesting that a time commitment of an hour or two a day is necessary will only scare people off from even starting.

Anecdote

[StrawberryFrog]

I know a nubmer of people who have been injured on a bicycle, some severely. I don't know anyone who has been injured while running.

Re:Anecdote

[calethix]

I have. I was crossing a street at a 4way stop and some lady must have been off in la la land because she hit me.

It wasn't really that bad. She was accelarting from a complete stop and just barely hit my foot but it knocked it into my other leg causing me to fall down.

From my personal experience though (jog at lunch and ride my bike to/from work), I'd still agree that jogging is safer.

Re:Anecdote

[Maulkin]

Unfortunately, I have.

While walking to work one day, a truck clipped a jogger in front of me, and they ended up in hospital.
It seems that (certainly here in the UK anyway) either jogging or cycling is not as safe as it should be.
There are few cycle paths, and even fewer places to jog in area, leaving those wishing to do so exposed to traffic.

strength training

[tuxette]

Strength training is especially important for us geek gals out there.

Women lose bone mass at a greater rate than men, so weight training is especially crucial. Typically, after age 35, women lose 1.2% per year, whereas men lose 0.2% per year. For optimal bone remodeling to occur, significant resistance must be used. Ideally, this means progressing beyond the light weights used in group fitness classes.

Additionally, the increase in lean mass associated with weight training strongly correlates with a faster metabolism. This means that women will burn more calories twenty-four hours a day, not just during or immediately following the exercise sessions. If you consider that a pound of fat contains roughly 3,500 kcals, exercise alone is not the most efficient mechanism to reduce that fat. However, generating significant metabolically active tissue (muscle) will cause an increase in the basal metabolic rate, thus burning off those excess calories more efficiently!

Source: http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/lady lift3.htm

Re:strength training

[WaterTroll]

For optimal bone remodeling to occur, significant resistance must be used.

Good point. Everyone should go at a pace they are comfortable with, but what is sort of annoying these days is a lot of women (atleast from my experience) have this fear of bulking up, which in our society is somewhat socially "abnormal". The truth is that they do not produce enough testosterone, so they aren't going to see exactly the same results as a male would. So they'll do something like 30 reps at a low weight, and show no signs of fatigue. It's better than nothing, but it's seems to be ineffective.

Also, as you made a point in aging. A lot of the idea of aging involves getting weaker. Muscle tone does decrease for a lot of people in their thirties and just about everyone in their fourties and further on, but effective strength training can completely reverse a big part of the natural process. A person at 50 can be much stronger than they were at 40. It's true. There are even 60 year olds competing in powerlifting competitions.

Re:strength training

[tuxette]

A person at 50 can be much stronger than they were at 40. It's true. There are even 60 year olds competing in powerlifting competitions.

There are actually quite a lot of little old ladies who bodybuild/powerlift competitively, who started to train after the age of 40-50. I almost feel sorry for the dumbasses who try to steal their purses :-)

Re:strength training

[Spunk]

A funny and interesting lady has a site on strength training for women. I imagine us guys could learn a lot from her as well.

Re:strength training

[Any Web Loco]

Hey Tuxette - doubt you'll see this comment, but if you're interested in strength training, you might want to have a squiz at this site:

Krista rocks.

Running...

[Paulrothrock]

Let's see:
-Wake up early
-Go outside in the cold/heat
-Run in a big circle for an hour whilst being chased by dogs, run down by idiots in cars, getting stinky and sweaty, and ridding myself of any motivation to do anything had when I was dragged from sleep kicking and screaming by my fiance/alarm clock
-Go to work in an 80 degree office building (cause the goddamn secretaries are always cold) and expect to get anything done through the haze of exhaustion/sleep deprivation, not to mention my smell driving my coworkers away?

I don't think so.

I never got the point of running, and I don't think I ever will. Gimme a way to type while getting a cardio workout and I might lose a few pounds

Been Running A Very Long Time

[ChuckDivine]

I got into running into 1974 for health reasons. I was 28 and wanted to lose a few pounds around my middle.

It worked like a charm. In less than two years I went from a very flabby 155 to a very trim 139. I later on went up into the 140s. Yes, my build is very thin. Most men should not try to get down to my weight unless they're much shorter than I (still about 5'10").

You don't need to be a marathoner to get real benefits from running. In fact some people claim that running a marathon can actually be bad for your health. I finished the DC area Marine Corps Marathon in 1996 -- and wound up sick in bed with the flu a little over a week later. But running 36 miles/week (6 days of running 6 miles a day) can be very good for you.

I will give some suggestions:

• First, get a good physical exam before you start.
• Buy two pair of good shoes and alternate each day. Retire shoes when each pair hits 500 miles.
• Do some weight training. I have to work on keeping my upper body strength up.
• Eat properly. Go easy on the junk food. Yes, I still eat some, but it seems I eat a good deal less than most people.
• Get enough sleep. At least 6 to 8 hours per night. Both your mind and body will thank you.
• Try swimming -- if you're body breaks down, swimming can replace running. I spent 40 minutes in the pool this morning because the weather here is lousy.

You may not like running after giving it a try. It may also be bad for your joints. If this happens, quit running -- but try something else. I might have to quit running when I'm 85 -- but I'll still be able to swim.

When I started running all those portable techie toys weren't available. How did I cope with the boredom? Well, to be honest about, sexual fantasies really helped. Just thinking about the woman I was dating at the time certainly helped pass the time. Other kinds of thinking also help pass the time.

You might try joining a running club. Some of them are pretty good. They help provide friends with the same interest -- and companionship for long runs.

Today I look forward to my daily run/swim.

Re:Been Running A Very Long Time

[Anonymous Coward]

How did I cope with the boredom? Well, to be honest about, sexual fantasies really helped.

Me too, and it gave me an extra place to hang my car keys!

Re:Been Running A Very Long Time

[Anonymous Coward]

Eat properly. Go easy on the junk food. Yes, I still eat some, but it seems I eat a good deal less than most people.

I want to add a warning to hackers that are considering running: eating properly does not mean the Atkins Diet. After reading the comments in response to the Slashdot story "Hackers on Atkins", I was astonished to see so many Slashdot readers following a low-carb diet.

An Atkins dieter can deplete his/her glycogen stores within 30 minutes of running and hit "the wall" hard. A sudden onslaught of fatigue is the first thing you'll feel. If the weather's hot, dehydration is possible. You don't need a high-carb diet to avoid this, just don't go low-carb.

Nancy Clark recently wrote a short, informative article on athletics and Atkins. Here it is: "Athletes: Abandon Atkins, Not Carbs!" (March 2004)

Re:Been Running A Very Long Time

[davew2040]

To say nothing of taking the diet advice of a guy who died from heart disease.

Anyway, to anyone who happens to read this, just another warning. Eating properly is important, but this includes eating enough. Starving yourself while maintaining a rigorous exercise routine is asking for trouble (i.e. a weakened immune system, if not outright injury). And I doubt you can ever go wrong by drinking lots of water!

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[Gudlyf]

WAAS doesn't mean much if the antenna craps out in moderate cloud/tree cover (Garmin uses a patch antenna vs. the Magellan quadrifilar helix). Magellan uses WAAS too, but it just doesn't lose signal as often as the eTrex did (or at all) and worked indoors!

Oh, and offtopic, why the sour puss in all the pics on your site? If I had the coin to shell out on all those neat gadgets, I'd at least have a smirk. ;-)

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[nightsweat]

Watch your posture when you run. The typical geek hunched shoulders posture will make your back hurt. Good posture will help build your back muscles and make it easier to breathe.

As for the pooping thing - I think any really good exercise will get your bowels moving. The rhythm of running does seem to have that effect on a lot of people.

Also consider walking

[hey!]

Running is a great way to get a lot of fitness benefits in relatively short sessions. I run several times per week because I enjoy it. But don't overlook simply walking more as a way of starting to build your fitness base. Running is quicker, of course, but it has its downsides, whereas walking has no downsides. Running and walking can also be used together, since you can walk on your "off" days and get the benefits of exercise while your body recovers.

Current fitness guidelines specify 1/2 hour per day of exercise, and recent research indicates 1 hour would be better. However, it needn't be at full aerobic intensity. This can help with the middle age spread that seems to hit geeks around age 30. However the idea that you will run every day for an hour or spend the equivalent time in the gym is ridiculous for most people. These things are good of course in their place, but more important in my opinion is to have something that is convenient, can be fit into your schedule, and that is enjoyable. Then supplement that with gym and running time rather than the other way around.

It's especially critical that programmers have daily exercise because the job is so sedentary, and low intensity is fine as long as it is kept to religiously.

If you are currently sedentary, it is not necessary to punish yourself and suffer to start building up your fitness. Consistency and duration are more important than pushing close your intensity limits. While raising the intensity of your excercise will allow you to get more benefits in less time spent, it will also very dramatically affect your subjective sense of the time spent. For example, you can take a one hour brisk walk and get the same metabolic benefits (weight control, feeling of energy) that you would get in a half hour jog, and it will seem like you spent less time at it.

I think the key elements of a successful exercise program are (in order of importance): consistency, duration, and intensity. While a running only program is probably overall superior than a walking only program, for many people the best can be the enemy of the good. That is they have running programs that they don't follow consistently, whereas a consistent program of walking would be better.

I am your 2004 Geek Candidate

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to run for Geek in the 2004 election, where do I sign up?

Running motivation

[cybermace5]

You may wonder how, exactly, lugging all this expensive gear helps anyone get a useful workout.

You'll understand when you see a geek rocket past you, sweating and puffing and running at a tremendous rate of speed, with several muggers in hot pursuit.

A cheaper motivational method: tape a hundred-dollar-bill to your back and jog through the bad part of town! The locals will swear they're in Pamplona.

To Each His Own

[stoolpigeon]

but here is my answer to your question:

The advantages of running:

• Running gets you a higher amount of aerobic benefit in a shorter period of time
• You can do it in smaller area
• running shoes are way more affordable than a good bike
• running does not require a helmet
• you can run anywhere
• if you go on vacation- just bring your shoes and you are good to go

Disadvantages:

• you have to be very careful to avoid injury
• the high impact is too much for some people

I think it is good for people to do something- I don't care what it is as long as they like it. I have never found running to be boring. I love it and find biking to be boring.

Running -- good code

[kpooley]

I try not to mix my running friends and geek friends...they just don't really grok each other...but I find that a lot of my most productive coding happens when I am running long runs. With no music ( must have pulse monitor to record work out...I am a geek) my noggin can focus on sorting through shit loads of approaches to a problem and 99% of the time the solutions I arrive at are more elegant than anything I get to sitting at a desk . Prepping for a marathon, with its weekly long slow distance, is a great way to gets lots of work done...plus there is lots of geekin' in looking for the perfect protein/carbo drink and speculating about extending lactate threshholds...running the actual marathon is a stunningly bad time to work as you end up trying to find concrete ways to express the not so abstract pain that comes around mile 19....crap

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[phishtrader]

I'm pretty sure that the drive in the mini iPod is actually a CompactFlash Hitachi Microdrive. In otherwords, solid state. You'd have to be bouncing pretty hard to make it skip.

Re:Why jog when you can bike ? - OSTEOPOROSIS

[SoftwareJedi]

Because extreme cycling to the exclusion of all impact related excercise can promote early osteoporosis. Bicycling magazine had an article on it earlier this year. It was a fairly informative article. I believe it was in the january or february issue.

Treadmill + FPS

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an idea that could transform the unseen masses of geeks, hackers, and chunky FPS addicts into a very fit, but still no less geeky, version of their original form.

Figure out a way to hook up a treadmill so that the speed at which you run is the speed at which your charecter can run in a FPS. And you play the FPS as you run... perhaps using some sort of alternative input device (because using a keyboard while running just isn't cool).

After implementing a graduated program so we don't all get heart attacks, we'd be ready for a marathon in no time.

Seriously, can somebody do this and get a a product to market? I'd pay 2K for something like this. It's the awesomeest traning corossover i've ever imagined.

Re:Treadmill + FPS

[hords]

My friend hooks his bicycle up to his PS2/PC and he can play racing games, etc. The faster he goes, the faster his character goes. Pretty neat stuff, cost less that 2K for him.

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[ptorrone]

in my area, i have clear skies all around- so i'm pretty lucky in that regard. as far as the offtopic thing goes, i am smiling on the inside. it's not a question of $, just priority when it comes to gadgets and passions- i'd rather get a robot than eat... :-] cheers, pt.

Re:Running?

[cavebear42]

Thats what I always tell people. If you ever see me running, shoot the person behind me.

I'm so old!

[Toshito]

In my days, you could not be considered a geek if you did any exercise...

Re:I'm so old!

[Queuetue]

Yeah, but the people that felt that way all mysteriously died off...

No mention of the FitSense stuff?

[Mondoz]

FitSense has a watch that keeps track of speed/pace/distance/calories/heart data/etc... All wirelessly.
A device on your foot transmits data to the watch, as does a wireless heart monitor on the chest.
Transmit it all back to the pc at home wirelessly to get charts and more data than you can shake a stick at.

Great stuff. Go running with a mini wireless lan on your body. :D

GPS isn't the best way to track runs...

[Lazarus_Bitmap]

I think Nike get's it better with their Triax Elite -- it uses an foot pod that measures speed/distance with 99% accuracy (got one, and i've tested it on a track). Includes a heart rate monitor, and wireless PC access -- allowing you to chart progress, load workouts, etc.

Problem with GPS is the bulky unit, and loss of coverage around trees / skyscrapers.

Martial Arts

[WormholeFiend]

they combine cardiovascular and strength training.

plus, you get to use your favourite Keanu movie quote:
"I know kung fu."

Re:Martial Arts

[o0zi]

I completely agree. I've been doing karate for four years now, and not only do I have far greater muscular strength, my reflexes are far quicker (great for games) and I have much better control over my body. Moreover, it's one of the few mentally-taxing sports I've come across - people with a decent amount of intelligence actually seem to be better at it than those with stronger muscles. And, of course, I can look professional when doing Neo's "come on" gesture :)

A little OT --- sailing

[wanerious]

Ok, a little off-topic, but I took sailing lessons last summer and have fallen in love with the sport. I now have a little Laser 2 boat to race in local races, and have found that there are good boat clubs and sailing associations close to most areas (and not necessarily yacht clubs costing big $ to join). It is easy to apply your geeky tendencies to sailing optimizations and racing strategies. I'd highly recommend getting a lesson or two to see if it works for you. At least you'd get out in the sunshine and water for a few days. Also good for people with knee problems, like me.

Re:A little OT --- sailing

[keith6689]

I love sailing. It can be as geeky or basic as you want.

I go sailing on a yacht that has onboard computer tied in to the GPS and realtime chart plotting, along with loads of other insrumentation. It can be fun playing with all that, but it's also nice to switch it all off and just use your basic skills.

It's a great way to get away from a hectic lifestyle. You can't get much more out of it than being offshore with nothing in view apart from your own boat.

Scientific method to finding running shoes

[October_30th]

Get proper running shoes, even if you're just jogging a mile or two per outing.

Do you have any hints regarding how one gets proper running shoes. Is there a scientific method to it?

When I was still running I was never comfortable with my shoes. I don't know if my feet have a peculiar shape or something but I never seemed to get enough support for my arch.

Re:Scientific method to finding running shoes

[gowen]

Do you have any hints regarding how one gets proper running shoes. Is there a scientific method to it?

Well, first and foremost, you need a running shoe. Not a cross trainer or something like that. Running is rhythmic stress loading of the joints, and you need some protection.

Go to a specialist running store, on their quietest day. Find a knowledgeable assistant -- at the specialist stores the assistants are usually runners themselves -- and take 90 minutes of their time trying on a great many pairs. Give them details of what you intend to do with them, and ask their advice. If they've got a machine that gets an imprint of your footstrike and can detect common idiosyncracies like overpronation, so much the better.

Try lots of brands, as they're all subtly different shapes (New Balance and Brooks suit me; my friend swears by Nike.) As a beginner, I'd recommend going for the extra comfort / cushioning models. You won't notice the supposed benefits of the lighter race shoes anyway.

I thought....

[FatalTourist]

this was going to be an article about tech-savvy girls.

Then I realized the headline wasn't 'Running From Geeks'

max heartrate

[johnpaul191]

actually the best/safest way to get your true max heartrate is to get a stress test from your Doctor. as long as you are employed or have health insurance it *should* be covered. some people can be well under the generic numbers, and if you have not exercised since gradeschool and have been living on pizza... you may have very clogged arteries.

even if you don't get a stress test, the heartrate monitor is invaluable. you can get ones as cheap as $30 from some places (try bike shops or look online). you can get ones that will give you data for calorie burn too. it might make you think of how far you have to run to burn off every bottle of Jolt. when you are starting out to exercise after a long stop you will probably overdo it and get frustrated..... screw looking at how long it takes you to run a mile, that's almost worthless information at first. your heartrate is a much better measure of your exercise. over time you will run faster and faster at the same heartrate. also keeping tabs on your heart could save your life if you have some health issue.

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Gkeeper80]

Yeah, bowels can be a problem for runners. One thing that running will do for you is remove all self conscience issues over time...First of all you get in great shape, so you don't worry about taking off that shirt in public, and you learn to go to the bathroom anywhere. I've had to stop in the middle of a run to take a dump behind some trees, and wiped with a sock(an extra one I brought to act as a glove/tissue in the cold weather). I know runners (mostly women) who will pee in their shorts before taking a break in a race. "The Complete Guide to Running a Marathon" by Bob Glover has a section on physical problems while running. He's run hundreds of marathons and talks about getting "the runs" and even vomitting during races. I know it sounds like a pretty horrible hobby, but those things really are temporary when they happen and don't happen to everyone.

Once you get used to the rythm of running, you learn to hit "the zone" where you can go long periods of time without getting bored or fatigued. It's kind of a zen like state because you focus on your breathing and the rythm of your steps. Unfortunatley it takes lots of practice without using music and usualy doesn't happen until you're already in shape(ie after the new-running-pains go away)

Lower tech but worth a look

[The Taco Prophet]

I've found these guys to be really helpful. There's plenty of advice on all things running... choosing the right gear, where to run, how to run, how to deal with strains & sprains... how to avoid strains & sprains. There's also a nice community of people there for advice and support. I started their beginner program last year... aptly named the "Couch to 5K" program. I've dropped 20 pounds, and I'm still going down. Good stuff. As pointed out in another post, the hardest thing for me to learn for me the right pace to run. I run significantly slower than I originally thought was optimal. After a while, you learn to listen to your body and keep a pace you can maintain. Running 30 minutes at a pace you can maintain does you a hell of a lot more good than running 5 minutes at a pace you can't.

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[anthropomorphized]

The urge "to go #2" is not uncommon. It is known as runner's trots. You can find plenty of discussions on this topic on various runners message boards. Most articles say essentially the same thing re: remedies. here is one

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[AnyNoMouse]

I'm pretty sure that the drive in the mini iPod is actually a CompactFlash Hitachi Microdrive. In otherwords, solid state. You'd have to be bouncing pretty hard to make it skip.

While you are correct that the drive is a Hitachi CompactFlash Microdrive, it is not a solid state device. It is actually a miniature hard drive based on IBM's microdrive technology.

Altitude Watch

[Anne_Nonymous]

I got an geeky altitude watch for my birthday a few years ago, and it's been very useful for climbing and skiing. It accumulates altitude gain or drop, and will count the number of ski runs as well. My biggest days so far have been 30,000 feet of skiing, and 7,800 feet of climbing. Being able to quantify seems to add to the challenge.

Don't Run, but Inline Skate (i.e. Rollerblading)

[PhoenixOne]

Sort of the middle ground between running and biking I guess. :)

I use a Timex GPS/HeartRate watch. Gives me my heart rate, speed, distance, pace, and split time. All sorts of geeky goodness. Just make sure to look at the road from time to time. ;)

Races

[Anonymous Coward]

There are "geek races" whereby your waist must be a certain number of inches longer than your inseam. From what I've read, it's usually four to six inches - so you're guaranteed to have a good gut on you, meaning you're likely to be in pretty bad shape (and maintaining an even playing field).

And I thought I had too many running gadgets

[ehiris]

I need that GPS to complete my arsenal.

Seriously, I used to have my heart rate monitor on all the time I ran. After I broke my habbit of running regularly I was setting my goals way too high based on the heart monitor's readings and that in turn made me quit alltogether.

I suggest you go running on a warm day in parks during peak hours. All the ass and tight tops with hooters popping out you'll see will make you forget about how fast you run. MP3 player is still usefull though. It's not like the hot chicks will want to stop in their track to talk to you but you'll have an excuse for why you didn't talk to them.

Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised that a geek listing info about running doesn't mention the value of a heart rate monitor. One of the reasons I used to have problems sticking to a running/jogging program is that, unbeknowst to me, I was running way too fast!

He did. Regarding the Garmin GPS watch, "... so far, i'm thrilled with mine. i'd like to see a heart rate monitor at some point and integration with my ipod, but that might need to wait for awhile."

One of the reasons I used to have problems sticking to a running/jogging program is that, unbeknowst to me, I was running way too fast!

I tried to exercise at what I thought was a reasonable speed, but I would inevitably get winded, give up and lose initiative.

Hrm. I mean, no offense, but you do actually have to get *in* shape before you can run for a decent distance, at a good pace, and not get winded. I run, I've never needed a HR monitor. It's pretty simple - run a consistent pace, and if you get into oxygen debt, you're going too fast. Slow down, re-establish a more suitable pace.

Re:Actually...

[slackerboy]

I've found that it really isn't that easy in practice (at least for me). I ran cross-country and track (the mile and 2-mile) for three years in high school back in the day, but I still had problems maintaining that steady pace that would let me go for really long distances.

A couple of years ago I bought a couple of books on training and a heart rate monitor and that made a huge difference for me. As long as I'm not exceeding my target zone, I can now run for five miles with no problem.

Oddly enough, this isn't as much of a problem for me when I row/scull...

Why bike when you can drive?

[CausticPuppy]

I don't understand why people choose to bike instead of drive.

The advantages of driving:

• infinitely much easier on your crotch
  
• you can spend much more power, and you have more flexibility in choosing a suitable power level (controlled by your right foot)
  
• you can cover a larger area so it's less boring
  
• more flexibility in duration. Driving 18 hours a day is no problem for an untrained person, but biking is.
  
• you can carry lots of luggage easily (iPod, phone, gps, book to read while pausing, drinks, beer keg, television, tent, bike)
  
• you don't need to wear silly clothing (although you certainly can, and I do)
  
• a modern automobile is way more interesting technically than bicycles.
  

Disadvantages:

• Need a car
  
• Car can break down underway... it helps to have a spare bike on the roof
  

(yes I do prefer biking over jogging, but now I have to actually start looking at bikes. I'm not sure what I want yet)

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Edax Rarem]

Get a Dog.
I love going on walks/runs with mu dog and he loves it too.
Here he is:
http://timandmary.com/ash/ash_home.htm

Amen

[Hogwash McFly]

Swimming is pretty much the only form of exercise I enjoy. I find running really boring and I notice the 'pain' much more. When I'm in the pool I can do 100 lengths at a time without taking a break and I feel more breathless as opposed to sick and stitched, but then again maybe my running technique is plain wrong. Swimming is a fantastic all body workout and is a sort of weight training and running hybrid. Breast stroke is my stroke of choice, sure it takes a lot more effort to cover the same distance as front crawl, but then again isn't that the point? Swimming breast stroke is like performing hundreds of mini horizontal chin ups (pull ups for you insensitive American clods).

The advantages of swimming include:

- Relatively inexpensive. For me the cost is a pair of swimshorts (actually I have 2), goggles plus about GBP 1.50 a session (i'm not even a member - monthly flat fee subscriptions would be far cheaper but oh well). For less than a pint of beer I can get a good block of exercise.
- All over workout as mentioned above
- You get to see mostly fit, hot chicks in skimpy, tight clothing. I'm telling you, when swimming lanes, the camel-toe opportunities make a great carrot on stick for your donkey.

Of course, swimming can be difficult for those that are particularly self conscious. Luckily I still stay trim no matter what I eat or how much exercise I do (metabolism blah blah) but wearing little more than underwear in front of all kinds of people can be daunting for some.

Happy splashings!

Don't forget the strength training

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, building a bit of muscle will help you in many aspects. But having a decent diet, doing some cardio and hitting the gym to build muscle makes a big difference. Seriously jog 3-6 x's a week is not a big deal. Passing on the Fries is not a big deal... and hitting the gym 2-3 x's per week is really not that hard. Just do a simple all body work out and you're set. Seriously get a trainer to walk you through the exercises, take it really easy for the 1st month (ie, just go through the motions don't worry about the weight) and ditch the weight belt, wrist straps, nautaluss machines, etc. Try this on for size:

DB Lunges* 2 times 8-12 reps,Leg Extensions 2 times 8-12 reps,Stiff legged Dead Lifts 2 times 8-12 reps,Leg Curls 2 times 8-12 reps,Calf Raises 2 times 8-12 reps,DB rows* 2 times 8-12 reps,Lat pull down 2 times 8-12 reps,Bench press* 2 times 8-12 reps,Incline Flies 2 times 8-12 reps,Military Press* 2 times 8-12 reps,Skull crushers 2 times 8-12 reps,Barbell curl 2 times 8-12 reps.

Note * on an exercise name mean do 1 warm up set
Numbers are SETs Reps within the set.

This should take about 40 minutes, do it 2 to 3 times per week and add cardio. Yeah those are some pretty serious exercises.... if your knees are up for it and you learn how to squat... definately squat rathern then do the db lunges... but frankly most people (even the guys in the gym all the time) don't get that one right and mess up their back/knees. You'll feel better, be stronger, be able to eat a lot more food, run faster, and most likely loose a nice bit of weight to boot. Oh, and don't worry you won't get all muscled up... the majority of the population doesn't have the genetics for it...

-Chuck

Re:Don't forget the strength training

[Anonymous Coward]

You may also want to look into something such as yoga. Strength is nice, but increasing self-awareness, breathing, and flexibility really help out in the exercise regimen.

Re:Don't forget the strength training

[Anonymous Coward]

Big Tip: Ask for some assistance on some of the lifting to see how to do it properly, even if it's a "self-confined" machine (as opposed to free weights). There's nothing worse than watching a news story based in a club somewhere and watching people pumping weights as fast as they can, not realizing how dangerous this is to their body.

The easiest thing (if you're doing it alone) is to find a count for pushing the weight, then a count for "negatives" - bring it back in. It's not that tough to do a 5-5 count (count 5 out, negative for a 5 count). Some people prefer a 10-10. Working slow is not going to bulk you up but it will give your muscles a better overall workout.

Generally true

[Mr. Underbridge]

Many people believe that jogging burns calories. It does but very little compared to a regular, fairly moderate weight training,

I'd certainly agree you need both, and also agree that the best easy way to lost fat is to add muscle, which requres more calories/lb/day to maintain. However, for raw calorie loss, it's hard to beat *intense, sustained* aerobic exercise. I run a few times a week, and one of the runs is an 8-mile, 1-hour, hilly run. This burns about 1000 calories, in a one-shot deal. Granted, a slow, short jog isn't as useful. But if you exercise for 1000 calories a day, it'd be hard *not* to lose weight. I started running to lose weight, now I'm having trouble not falling below my target weight.

That said, I do also do weights 2-4 times a week, so I agree, balance is good. Keeps us runners from looking like sticks, if nothing else.

Re:Generally true

[Malc]

The trouble a lot of people have is that they increase their diet too much to compensate the extra calories they're burning. Thus they don't lose weight... although I'd argue they're much healthier for it.

That said, I'm running 35-40 km a week and I'm struggling with my weight. It dropped below 130 lbs in the last month (I'm 6' 1"). I've lost 25 lbs since I took up running 18 mos ago. I can't eat enough and I'm getting pretty fed-up with being constantly hungry and tired! Oh well, it won't stop me reaching my goal of a marathon.

As for strength training: that's what hills are for!

Re:Generally true

[Mr. Underbridge]

That said, I'm running 35-40 km a week and I'm struggling with my weight. It dropped below 130 lbs in the last month (I'm 6' 1"). I've lost 25 lbs since I took up running 18 mos ago. I can't eat enough and I'm getting pretty fed-up with being constantly hungry and tired! Oh well, it won't stop me reaching my goal of a marathon.

Yikes! Are you getting enough of both carbs and fat? That could explain the tiredness, if not the hunger. Could be a diet balance issue - it's not always easy to maintain blood sugar. As for getting enough total calories, one thing I did in high school when I was running 50-60 km/week for a while, is I started drinking a *lot* of orange juice (and water, of course). Good for the vitamin C (and calcium if you get fortified), and it's like instant calories. Just watch the blood sugar problems, I'd recommend this more for *after* you run than before.

Re:Generally true

[Abcd1234]

Although, for sheer, long-term caloric intake, you can't beat fat and protein. Of course, it's important to keep a balance, but if you're having trouble getting the calories, a general increase of fat, protein, and complex carbs is a better idea than consuming "instant calories", as those calories, as you say, can increase blood sugar and insulin levels (which strains the pancreas) while at the same time only providing short-term energy.

It's also incredibly important to eat *frequently*. 5-6 times a day if you can. It's better for your body (no insulin spikes) and keeps the energy levels up.

Re:Generally true

[Malc]

I've heard of runners have insulin problems due to excessive "carb loading" causing massive spikes. I do try to eat less refined carbs. I'm not sure if whole wheat pasta is worth four times the cost, but I buy it anyway. I actually like food with a bit of fat in it (besides it tasting better) I find it leaves me feeling satisfied for longer. I don't touch any milk that's been skimmed more than the 3.25% stuff as otherwise it's just gross tasting grey water. I've always had problems with sugar levels getting too low if I go too long between meals or if I exert myself too much... but I've tended to blame that on my skininess and not having enough reserves. It gets damn expensive and time consuming eating as much as I do.

Re:Generally true

[Mr. Underbridge]

Although, for sheer, long-term caloric intake, you can't beat fat and protein. Of course, it's important to keep a balance, but if you're having trouble getting the calories, a general increase of fat, protein, and complex carbs is a better idea than consuming "instant calories", as those calories, as you say, can increase blood sugar and insulin levels (which strains the pancreas) while at the same time only providing short-term energy.

That's certainly true, but as a runner (which pertains to me and the previous poster), you do need a significant amount of carbs, even some simple ones, on running days. The reason is that it takes a while for the glycogen to switch over to efficient blood glucose production, and without some serious blood sugar, you can end up realllly dragging after eunning maybe for a half hour.

In other words, runners really need some short term energy for the first part of a run to mix in (kind of like nitrous for a car). Other times, I've been so low on blood sugar after running that I had the shakes and light-headedness, so I had to get some quick sugar to keep from passing out.

But I agree, I wouldn't recommend it for normal consumption by non runners.

It's also incredibly important to eat *frequently*. 5-6 times a day if you can. It's better for your body (no insulin spikes) and keeps the energy levels up.

Absolutely. Generally healthier on the GI system too.

The Beat Your High Score Exercise Plan...

[MsGeek]

A pedometer is a good way to get a baseline of your current activity with the idea of increasing your activity in a gradual way. It's how I got back into exercise. It's also quite cheap...a good pedometer will only set you back from $5 to $20 US. You don't need a really good one if all you are doing is counting steps.

The US Government and a few other non-profit organizations has gotten a site together called America On The Move, where you can keep a step log and get some really good basic info about getting active. Here's the link: http://www.americaonthemove.org/

There is a downside about wearing a pedometer. One, you have to turn it off when you get in a vehicle. Sometimes you forget, and you then wonder why you got in way more steps than you thought you did. Two, you have to turn it back on after you get out of a vehicle or you cheat yourself out of some steps. Three, if you are wearing a particularly high-waisted pair of pants, you might not get a proper reading at all. Four, it can get physically annoying to have a little plastic box attached to your pants all the time.

I don't wear my pedometer anymore, but wearing one taught me what a proper amount of exercise feels like for me and gave me a feel for what I need to do to stay healthy. It is a truly geeky way to kick-start your exercise plan...it's like playing a video game where you are constantly motivated to beat your high score.

Here are a few other elements of my food and exercise plan. I wrote this journal post in November of last year, and I am still more or less sticking with it. I haven't lost a huge amount of weight, but I feel healthier and I'm capable of doing more physical activity than I used to when I was strictly sedentary.

It's a good start, Mr. Seigen. Keep going with it.

logos

[Knights who say 'INT]

God, I just _love_ the use of "geek out" as a verb. Hadn't come across it yet.

Someone should make a "geek out" version of this t-shirt.

Food, not shoes is cost

[peter303]

More like $50-$60 if you Froggle it (shop around). Cheaper than most any other sport- skiing, biking, golfing, etc.

Not surprisingly I find food costs to far exceed shoe costs. An hour long session of running may cost you fifty cents in amortized shoe liftime, but also an extra meal (500-1000 kcal) compared to not running. The cost of that food is much more than the shoe.

Hashing!

[yoshi_mon]

If you really want to run for a purpose, might I suggest hashing.

While now I prefer to drink my beer while sitting around, I can only say that unless you experience a hash for yourself you will not understand.

Give yourself a break

[jodav]

I know I'm not the first person to post this, but give me a break! Running is a great form of escape from being tied down to technology. I run somewhat regularly, and I plan on completing a marathon this year. I think the two pieces of 'technology' that I will use are 1) a good pair of shoes, and 2) some sort of timing device (a $5 wristwatch would do just fine). I really don't want to check my email at mile 10 or anything silly like that.

Music is another issue; I had been using that as my timing device because my regular watch is too nice to wear out running, so I was counting time based on the length of Radiohead tracks. The problem I find is that bud earphones fall out too easily, while headphones increases the sweat factor.

Re:Give yourself a break

[ptorrone]

i always wonder why folks feel the need to say "take a break, unplug, etc..". some have said "go cycle instead". it's great to choose, not sure what gene i am missing which would make me want someone else to do something other than what they enjoy. in my case, i really enjoy listening to audiobooks while running, i have no desire to "escape" from technology- for some, certainly me, it's oxygen. cheers, pt

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Malc]

Don't run so hard, it shouldn't hurt.

Change your shoes. If you're over-pronating or something like that it pulls everything out of whack from your feet to your back.

Stretch after you exercise. If you're tight it will pull things out of line when you run.

Exercise should be fun. You don't like running, so it appears that you're doing the right thing and looking for something else.

A cool swimming sounds good for the summer.

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[rjstanford]

I use the ForeRunner, as do a lot of other people in my running circle. Its pretty darn accurate, even with pretty heavy tree cover. If you're running heavily treed trails with a lot of twisty singletrack you'll be off by a bit, but for normal trail or road running they're good to well within a percent. Which, quite frankly, is good enough for me.

Its also cheap, comfortable, easy to read while running, and has all of the nifty running screens, such as being able to see your distance, time, and current pace (in minutes/mile) all at once. Customizable, too. Its not a very good general purpose unit, which is fine by me since I just use it for running (and occasionally biking). It also takes your mile splits automatically (or whatever other lap point you want), which is pretty handy during a race.

Don't listen to music ...

[Titusdot Groan]

... unless you are running paths. It's not recommended by any serious runner. You don't realize how much you depend on your hearing for navigating traffic filled streets until you don't have it.

The number of runners who die every because they can't hear the cars coming and automatically step out in front of one ...

Capoeira does both in one package

[PlatinumInitiate]

I've found a great way to keep in shape is capoeira, a Brazilian martial art, which is a combination of music, dancing and fighting techniques.

You start off with fitness training (including a lot of running), then focus strengthening your muscles and practicing the basic balancing needed for fundamental moves. The first thing you will usually do in this regard is practice headstands, and then practice putting weight only your forearms, until you have enough strength and balance to go into the next stage: over-head flips. Eventually, you will be able to balance your entire body and support yourself using only your arms. There are lots of moves, some of which seem impossible to most people at first glance, but with enough practice just about anyone can do.

It's great fun and extremely good exercise. Capoeira, horse riding and power-walking are three main exercise activities, and they complement eachother well. Power-walking is definitely an option for joggers, as it puts less pressure on the knees and you still get some of the benefits of jogging, although I wouldn't say that one activity alone will be sufficient for most people for reasonable fitness, so it's a better idea to vary what you do and take part in a variety of activities.

Re:Capoeira does both in one package

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found a great way to keep in shape is capoeira [capoeira.org], a Brazilian martial art, which is a combination of music, dancing and fighting techniques.

Sounds like a great idea, for gay geeks.

Hey! Coincidence! My new Forerunner 201...

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I tested out my new Garmin Forerunner 201 this morning.

My feeling is that the technology isn't 100% there yet. The device logs your position every few seconds and these can be viewed as a map or uploaded to the PC. But at three positions the GPS tracking had clearly failed. For them to be correct I would have had to have dropped 2,500 feet and travelled at 80mph. I don't mind the hardware failing to track accurately because it's easy to fix in software. But with all the experience of this stuff Garmin have they didn't think to filter the data and they provide no way to manually delete the bad data points. Luckily you can export the data to XML and I can write my own code to clear the data up. But it's kinda disappointing because without writing my own code the total distance it thinks I've run is likely to be way off. And their logbook software looks like it was written by a junior developer over 3 or 4 lazy afternoons. Not being able to delete erroneous points is just so dumb. And yet clearly, in order to get a GPS device to work at all, they must have at least some developers who know what they are doing.

So overall I have mixed feelings about the device.

BTW Anyone know what CPU these devices have? I was trying to disassemble the firmware (which you can download in apparently unencrypted, uncompressed form) but I can't tell which disassembler to use. Doesn't look like an ARM. What else might be used on a device like this? Atmel AVR? Something else?

Re:Hey! Coincidence! My new Forerunner 201...

[SnappleMaster]

This is just the reality of GPS today. I have the same experiece (with other Garmin GPS units).

On one hand it's not 100% reliable. But on the other hand, a GPS that is (almost) watch-sized is pretty damn impressive even if the reliability is a bit off.

If the unit cost $300 I'd call it a rip-off. But for $120 it sounds like a damn sweet deal. I'm considering ordering one right now!

Re:Hey! Coincidence! My new Forerunner 201...

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

But my complaint is not that the GPS is poor. It's the fact that they didn't apply a trivial filtering procedure to fix the result.

Oh, the irony!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey wait a second,

This is the same guy who used to always hype the Segway as the next best thing. Wasn't he getting paid to do BookofSeg.com while pretending to be just a regular guy? Haha, the checks must have stopped coming when the Segway flopped, the site is down.

Hahaha even more, he got so lazy riding his Segway that he had to get off his fat ass and start exersizing again. Oh, the indignity!

Hey Ptorrone, you like taking pictures of yourself, but you never smile. What's up with that? Usually shills make more than enough money to visit the dentist.

Re:Bouncing hardware (and other questions)

[SnappleMaster]

Hard drives don't skip. If the head touches the platter, it's game over. But I could see vibration over time shortening the life of the disk being a problem, but since the iPod lifespan is apparently only 18 months anyways I wouldn't worry about it. ;)

How good am I? Percentile data?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I'd like to know how good I am at running. The only way I know to assess that is to compare with other people. Are there published percentile running speeds so that I can tell what percentage of the population I run faster than for any given distance?

Re:How good am I? Percentile data?

[elflord]

I'd like to know how good I am at running. The only way I know to assess that is to compare with other people. Are there published percentile running speeds so that I can tell what percentage of the population I run faster than for any given distance?

First, percentiles aren't that meaningful, since most untrained people can barely run at all.

However, there are the WAVA standards. These are age-graded and gender graded. The standards are based on age group records. 70% means that you can run at 70% of world record pace for your age. The nice thing about these standards is that you can compare performances over different ages, and also different race distances.

Basically, 50-60% is where the midpack runners at most races are. 60% and up is where the entry level competitive club runners are. 70% and up gets you into trophy territory, and most serious competitive running clubs have several runners in this range. 80-85% is where the best local runners are. People in this range stand a good chance of winning their age group, and winning larger races overall (e.g. in NY).

In elite-level races in the US (e.g. the recent mends 8k championships) most competitors finish in the 85-95% range.

Re:How good am I? Percentile data?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

That's about the most useful link anyone has posted on Slashdot in reply to something I've asked. Thanks!

And Let's Not Forget Walking

[autosentry]

It's damned good for you, too.

interference effect though

[Anonymous Coward]

The adaptations to sustained endurance activity are suboptimal for body composition.

While important on an overall level of fitness, you're going to get better results via pure strength training than you are with endurance exercise by a significant margin.

Endurance exercise tells your body to preserve fat and burn lean mass.
It's also observed to have a detrimental effect on muscle fiber growth than strength training alone.

If you want to see the real difference in body composition, compare a marathon runner to a sprinter.
Who's cut?
The sprinter.

good commute

[aquabat]

My office is about 10Km from my house. I run to and from work five days a week. There is a shower at work, so I just throw a change of clothes in my backpack with my Inspiron 4100 (UXGA :D), and I'm good to go. It takes me about an hour to make the trip, but I'm trying to get that down to half an hour. The cool thing about this arrangement is that if I get tired, I can stop and code for a while, then start running again.

I'm in Ottawa, Canada, so it's a little rough in the dead of winter, but a good GoreTex jacket and a pair of windproof gloves gets me by. Luckily, this town is covered in greenbelt and bike paths, so I seldom need to run in traffic.

I ran my first marathon last autumn (without the laptop - I chickened out). Time: 4:27:31

Re:You can also swim...

[homer_ca]

"there are athletes like Amanda Beard"

Not to be confused with Amanda Bearse of Married with Children fame.

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[SnappleMaster]

There is only one way to make running less awful: run.

Running hurts when you are out of shape. Heck running hurts even when you are in shape, but when you're in better shape it hurts less. Or maybe you're just so accustomed to the pain that it's bearable. Anyways, you will need to run regularly for a good six months before running feels easy/natural. Sorry...

And don't overdo it. Most beginners run way too fast. Run very slow and don't hurt yourself.

a chemical fix

[lysium]

Feel free to bike, and tell others to bike, but don't compare what you do to what a runner does. It's cliche to say it, but if you have to ask why we run, there's nothing we can possibly say that will ever explain it to you.

You know, that is exactly what my raver friends tell me about dancing on drugs (6+ hours at a time, mind you). Intense physical exertion releases copious amounts of chemicals in the head, does it not? Maybe that is the best explanation of all. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

===---====

Full Contact Fighting?

[stankyho]

Vale Tudo, No Holds Barred, etc
Includes Cardio, weight training, martial arts skills, critical thinking, self-defense, striking, kicking, grappling, etc.

Look at Randy Couture, 40 years old, top light heavy weight UFC fighter. Plus he does the Eco Challenge.

Don't know much about the tech side of it though. But sometimes you just want to get away from the tech for awhile.

My old coach...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.runningbyfeeling.com/

If you're on Oahu, you will finish the Honolulu Marathon if you take his course.

Super lo tech version

[jkirby]

- Put on Carhart pants
- Put on Carhart shirt
- Put on boots
- Grab Axe
- Chop wood

And guess what: you got a pile of usable wood. Sure, it is not "hollywood", but it works.

Re:Why jog when you can jog and bike ?

[tiggles]

Come on folks, can't we all get along?

Seriously, try a triathalon; all of the benefits (and, I guess all of the disadvantages) AND you don't have to stop at the water. (There are duathalons too, if you can't swim - sometimes, with 100's of people in the water, the swimming is kind of scary).

Wish I had the skillz.

[Martigan80]

Wish I had the skillz this guy has. He has one hell of a job to offord all those cool gadgets. Really how does he have the spare time?

Breathing patterns / techniques

[Scorchio]

I'm no runner, trust me on that one!

A few years back, a CV landed on my desk, belonging to a guy who was applying for a programming position. On it, he mentioned running as an interest, and added that since his high school physical education teacher told him the secret behind breathing correctly while running, he can now run pretty much any distance without getting tired. Unfortunately, he didn't quite make the grade for the programming job, but I must admit I was tempted to get him in for interview just so I could ask what the secret was.

Was it just BS or is there really a secret?

Re:Why jog when you can jog and bike ?

[pclminion]

Come on folks, can't we all get along?

I'm all for a nice discussion of the benefits of cycling vs. running, and that's what I thought we were having.

If I seemed a little irritable it's only because he chose to frame it in a "running is inferior" sort of tone. I was just answering in kind.

fit geek irc channel

[ptorrone]

as per a great suggestion here, aim, and irc. there is now a "fit geek" irc channel. on freednode, join #fitgeek who knows what'll happen, but it is now there. enjoy. cheers, pt.

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Cro Magnon]

Does running make the dog poop?

Alternatives

[pablodiazgutierrez]

I am a graduate student and my life goes on within the 4 walls of the graphics lab. Not that I don't find it interesting, but sometimes you need a break and your girlfriend is not always around. But I found the solution to (at least) the lack of movement that was making my already thin muscles shrink a bit more everyday. We bought a soccer ball for the lab, and now every few hours we go outside and play some footvolley, or just kick it with fellow students. Pretty fun, and a hell of a mind refreshment after spending straight hours working (or slashdotting!).

We're even thinking on re-arranging the lab so that we can host a chair-soccer competition. Those guys next door will learn...

Linux-friendly heart rate monitors

[squid_wrangler]

Polar's heart rate monitors are nice and the protocol for their IR upload has been, errr, community-documented thanks to some open-source programming efforts. I keep my triathlon training log based on the software:

http://www.employees.org/~bozceri/training

and the link to the Polar heart rate monitor data download project:

http://daveb.net/s710/

Great skill

[Tablizer]

Running is a good skill to have in your school years. People were always chasing me wanting to beat the &%@!* out of me, even the girls.

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Edax Rarem]

Hmmm... I am not sure if running is the trigger. He is gonna poop regardless, but sometimes he runs faster after that bit of business is taken care of.

#fitgeek on Freenode...

[OctobrX]

Hey... if you are into a fit life-style; running, biking, committed to working out... Join the #fitgeek channel on Freenode and hang out with us.

irc.freenode.net
#fitgeek

Bizzaro Day

[IncarnadineConor]

First one of the guys at track practice asks me about installing linux on his computer...

now this

Running is productive.

[Dr. Mu]

I've had my best ideas while running. Maybe more oxygen gets to the brain, I dunno. I just have to remember to write them down before the post-run brew, however.

ipod a geek toy?

[Anonymous Coward]

what self-respecting geek would have an ipod?

that's like calling microsoft windows, or a plasma tv a geek toy.

Need some advise

[shakuni]

I have started running on a treadmill just 10 days back. I notice that my ankles and shins pain when i am running. Also, there is residual pain in my right heel even after finished with my running. Obviously I dont want to bust my joints or bones. Any recommendations from the the running geeks ? I am already considering a new pair of shoes. The ones i have now are pretty good Nike Air ones. Is this a askslashdot post ? maybe

Re:Need some advise

[dlb]

Any advice here will probably make things worse.

Go see a physician.

Even consulting a nurse would be magnitudes more help than the "health experts" on slashdot.

~dlb

you forgot polar

[circletimessquare]

http://www.polar.fi/

Polar is a Finnish company that makes heart rate monitor watches.

A strap goes around your chest and the watch records your heart rate. You can set threshold settings on your heart rate and the watch will alert you if you are running too hard or falling below your heart rate goals. You can then download a record of your run to your PC.

I've been using the same one for 7 years now, and besides the fact that the battery dies quickly, I'm quite happy with it. In fact, when I ran the New York City marathon in 2001, I ran with my Polar, downloaded my heartrate for the entire marathon to my PC, and can relive the suffering and pounding in my chest anytime I want to now. ;-P

They apparantly have a new watch, looking at their home page, that interfaces with some Nokia phones (Finnish synergy!).

Re:you forgot polar

[circletimessquare]

ps: i forgot:

the chest strap for the polar watch requires no batteries, and is not connected to the watch by any wires

so what i believe is happening is that the strap passively converts the electrical impulses in your heart into a tiny RF signal that the watch picks up on (the range is small... move the watch at arms length and it has trouble reading your heart rate)

which, if you ask me, is a neat engineering trick

the watch also interfaces with the pc the same way, via a wireless reader (but it has to be in a shallow depression in the wireless reader in order to interface)

either way, those finnish engineers sure know their RF!

Re:you forgot polar

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Are you sure it needs no batteries?

I didn't think we had RF transmitters which could run off millivolts of electricity.

running sucks

[CAIMLAS]

"running", or jogging, as most people envision it today, sucks. It's a horrible form of exercise.

- jogging in urban environments is very, very bad for your knees due to large amounts of cement
- shin splints suck. I'm not sure what causes them, but they seem to be a perpetual bane for joggers I've known.
- it's inefficient - you use almost as much energy as a slow sprint, and move about as fast as a fast walk.

Instead: do something like ride a bike, row a boat (a rowboat by yourself or with someone special, or take up crew or kiaking), swimming (which, if you want to get into shape, would be ideal) or go hiking or walking in fields - all of which are good exercise, don't make you look as foolish, aren't as harsh on your body, and aren't trendy.

If you must jog, please take care of your body and don't run on hardened surfaces such as roadways and/or cement.

Garmin vs. other Speed Distance Monitors

[radd0]

I found the Garmin GPS systems, like that in the Garmin Forerunner 201 and Timex Bodylink (which also uses Garmin's GPS technology) to be unsatisfactorily inaccurate at speed and distance measurement.

Just recently, I had the opportunity to field test the Forerunner 201 (fully charged) vs. the FitSense FS-1 Speedometer at an outdoor 12K run across the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. The Forerunner repeatedly kept losing satellite signal, and in the end had over calculated the travelled distance by well over a quarter of a mile. On the other hand, literally, the FitSense watch was right on the mark, off by only 0.01 miles.

If the Forerunner or Bodylink don't have the luxury of a perfectly clear and cloudless day, with abosolutely no tree coverage or tall buildings near by, they're excellent. But that's not a realistic surrounding for most runners. The FitSense uses advanced pedometer technology instead of relying on a GPS signal and throughout my testing has proven to be a much more accurate device. Other noteworthy advanced speed distance monitors include the sleek Nike Triax Elite, it's predecessor the Nike Triax SDM 100, and the ultra lightweight SportBrain pod.

--

RaD Man / ACiD
Pilgrimage 2004 Compo Organizer
pilgrimage.scene.org

Ease into running slowly

[kallistiblue]

If you have been sedentary for a while, make sure to slowly begin to build up your miles. Running puts a pounding on the soles of your feet.

Doing too much to quickly can lead to a case of heel spurs. Take it slow and allow your body to adapt.

Charting performance for fun

[smchris]

This is more for math geeks because you'll have to work it out today with your computer of choice. But back in the Dark Ages, I found that my PRs formed a perfect power curve of time vs. distance using a TI-58 and the business stat chip. Great for choosing a pace for the annual marathon.

I run close to 30 miles a week

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy is not a runner, even if you are a geek there are alot of things you learn while trying to train for a marathon. One, anything extra on your body is affecting your runtime, "running socks" cause blisters, if you have any sort of watch that you truly love.. it'll be abused to no end. Cheap watches are the best. Ipod mini?? In most marathons they don't allow any sort of music or electronics (minus the rfid badge); why give yourself a dependency?

All that extra lets be wired shit.. obviously you don't plan on even finishing the marathon. How about buying a good pair of sneakers and actually running at a steady pace for 26.2 miles? That's what a marathon is about, all your tech isn't going to make you any better until you start doing it. Save the tech for yourself when you can do 26.2 in a decent timeframe, then get a cheap stopwatch, thats all the tech you need.

This is my preferred form of exercise..

[Anonymous Coward]

The Bud Light Toeflex

You misssed the point.

[jotaeleemeese]

He is talking about protecting tendons, that is why he is suggesting short runs initialy. to which I wholeheartedely agree...

Do something else to raise your heart reate, but running should be always approached with caution and information.

Often overlooked: CoolMax socks

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen about a dozen comments about the importance of decent, properly fitted running shoes. However, I haven't seen anyone mention CoolMax running socks. When you're running/jogging for more than 30 minutes at a time, your feet will sweat a lot and cotton socks soak up the sweat. CoolMax socks help get rid of the sweat and can make a big difference in foot comfort.

You don't need to spend a lot of extra money for CoolMax socks. I've bought inexpensive 2-packs from Target and Ross.

Lots of Toys, Pictures and FUN! Geekdom alas?

[severgence]

After looking at his web site, I seriously wonder- does he get paid to be a "geek" for a living or did he invent a way to make a money tree after reading all those physics books? I would like to know how one finds the time and to "play" so much. So Many toys- even a segway, and all the latest cell phones (bluetooth of course), robot toys, etc. - What about the real world? It was fun to look at for a fantasy get away- but let's get serious. Where's my silver spoon to Geekdom?

LSD runs are out, train faster punk!

[caveat]

While LSD seems like a great concept, and can be useful once a month or so for the psychological value of just being out there for hours, there's very few real benefits to slow distance training - you aren't getting your system going fast enough to provide any kind of endurance at a race-pace, or for that matter any true aerobic benefit (unless you wear an HRM and get in the "zone", but who wants to work that hard for three hours?).
Zatopek put it best..."I began my training by running one hundred meters as fast as I could. People laughed at me and said 'Emil, one hundred meters is not distance, it is a sprint!' I replied, 'Yes, but if I run one hundred meters twenty times, it is two kilometers and no longer a sprint.' I must train fast to run fast." (source The Lore of Running, Tim Noakes; emphasis mine)

Re:LSD runs are out, train faster punk!

[jfengel]

I like to start out slow, and then taper off.

Seriously, I was never fast. I did spend one summer trying to qualify for Boston, training fast to run fast. In the actual race I died at mile 17, and missed the mark by a good half-hour. But I was on pace until mile 17. 'Course, that's where the race begins.

Maybe another year of the same training and I'd have it, but I decided to just deal with being a four-hour marathoner, and wait for the age grouping to catch up with me. Fifty-five, here I come! (In twenty years.)

Re:Lots of Toys, Pictures and FUN! Geekdom alas?

[ptorrone]

i do not get paid to be a geek. i did not make a money tree as you suggested. i do, work a lot, often 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, to do what i want to do, technology and learning is important to me. i'd rather work on robots than eat, than watch tv, than go on vacation, than have kids- it's all about what is important and what you're willing to give up to do other things. i don't think an ipod, running shoes and a gps watch (about $100) is fantasy, most people who run spend way more than i do on lots of items. cheers, pt

depends on how fast you want to run

[caveat]

a weight program is absolutely indespensable if you want to be all-round "fit", and not specialize in one particular sport. of course, if you just want to get fit, i'd recommend something besides running for the aerobic aspect - x-c skiing, biking, swimming and rollerblading are all just as effective at whipping your cardiovascular system into shape, without the accompanying pounding (not that that's neccesarily a problem, but if you don't have a particular love for running, you might as well do something less stressful).

if you want to be a really fast runner though, i wouldn't lift weights, except for some very light upper-body endurance work to get you into shape. muscle is mighty heavy, and carrying around an extra 15 lbs on your upper body is just dead weight if you're trying to cover the maximum ground in the minimum time - pretty much all your arms are there for is to swing and set your rhythm. and don't even think about legwork; if you're doing 120 miles a week, your legs are getting plenty of exercise already. look at world-class runners...they have tiny little emaciated torsos on top of lean legs that come up to their armpits, with not an extra ounce of fat *or* muscle.

damn, and i just bought shoes like two hours ago

[caveat]

newbie 801 all-terrians...and you guys have them 5 bucks cheaper! argh!

if you're a n00b then take every other day off..

[caveat]

if you're already semi-fit, or want to get really in shape (and are relatively young and resilient), then alternate "real" workouts and really easy days, e.g. M=5k hard, T=3k jog W=3k fartlek Th=5k easy trail F=distance ladder, Sa=easy 5k, Su=rest day. when you get more in shape, start doing two back-to-back hard days, friday and saturday perhaps, and keep slowly building up to staggering hard and harder workouts, with one easy and one rest day. of course, that's if you want to be competitive - otherwise, x-train and take easy days to your heart's delight.

This might be just me......

[Alien_Phreak]

Might be just me....but isn't the idea of an athletic geek somewhat of an oxymoron. Can you imagine bill gates in super tight spnadex shorts jogging along in your neighborhood? *shiver*.... ergh... i'm getting shivers just writting this down. thankfully he can afford his own running track and spares all of us the view (if he runs at all) anyhoo.. my 2 cents and msft bashing...

yes, 100%

[circletimessquare]

i don't know how it works, but if you visit polar's home page i will guarantee you that there will be confirmation of what i said (and perhaps an explanation)

Re:Running? (not a troll)

[Anonymous Coward]

Does vigorous running make anybody else feel like they have to poop? What's up with that??

No. However, vigorous anal sex does.

Speaking of shoes

[ar32h]

How important are running shoes?
I have yet to find U.S. size 18D running shoes.
Good grief, the only shoes I can find are New Balance tennis shoes.
Do size 18D running shoes even exist?

My geeky running idea

[PlaysByEar]

This is one of the more geeky ideas I've ever had--and it worked great! A couple of years ago, I wrote a Perl script that used sox to take mp3 songs and speed it up to my running pace (about 157 bpm) without altering pitch. The script would play the track list to my MD recorder which I ran with. My MD recorder broke awhile ago so I haven't used it lately, but I'm starting to think I might finally get an mp3 player for this purpose to get me running again.

It takes a little getting used to, but running to the beat can't be beat!