Star Trek TOS DVD Box Sets Forthcoming

Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by ObviousGuy · 2004-05-05 22:37 · Score: 3, Funny

Why didn't they have Sulu at the helm?

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I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.

Re:Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by Hatta · 2004-05-05 23:06 · Score: 5, Informative

They did have Sulu at the helm. The orange guy just filled in for him when Sulu was on an away mission.

BTW, TAS is available on bittorrent. Get the .torrent at Digital Distractions. Crappy encodes, but it's better than giving money to a bootlegger.

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Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by InvaderSkooge · 2004-05-05 23:43 · Score: 2, Informative

They kept Sulu at the helm, the orange guy replaced Chekhov. See?

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Erik
YOU ARE SAYING IMPUDENCE TO ME! THAT IS IMPUDENCE!
Re:Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by HTH+NE1 · 2004-05-06 03:49 · Score: 1

There's also a hint that it will come out on DVD, in that there's a page where you can request to be informed about its release. They don't do this for every title.
You'll also be voting for this release; we'll let the studio know how many customers are waiting for this title.
So consider it as a petition for its commercial release and sign up.

--
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Re:Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by Rombladi · 2004-05-06 04:17 · Score: 1

Clarification: TAS was/is not a VHS only release, there is a very nice laserdisc box set. Makes much better transfers to DVD-R that VHS :)
Re:Who was that weird orange alien in TAS? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:11 · Score: 0

Actually, the complete animated series was released at one point as Laser Disc boxed set. To make a long story short, I actually "liberated" the set from a dumspter at "Wired" as they were moving offices back in 1999.

Maybe once I'm finished with my Star Wars:OT Laserdisc to DVD conversion project... I'll tackled these (keep an eye on those BT sites).

Experience... by ArbiterOne · 2004-05-05 22:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bought the Original Series on DVDs.... wasn't a very good value because you only got 2 episodes per $20 DVD. Maybe this'll be a better value, so... not as much ripping off of trekkies.

Re:Experience... by arctan1701 · 2004-05-05 23:46 · Score: 1

if it's priced anything like the next generation boxed set was priced, i'm sure they will rip trekkers off just as much...

More info by darlmcbride666 · 2004-05-05 22:41 · Score: 0, Troll

here.

Go the Animated Series by JosKarith · 2004-05-05 22:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

I love it - it's great for using to confunse and annoy supposedly "hardcore" trekkies who get all their info out of magazines.
And no, I'm not a trekkie, I'm just an animation fan who shared a house with one a few years back.

--
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'

Re:Go the Animated Series by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · 2004-05-06 01:13 · Score: 4, Interesting

I attended a short talk by George Takei ( Mr Sulu ) a few weeks ago at the Supanova popular culture festival in Sydney, Australia while I was waiting for David Carradines Q&A, and he was a very funny and personable speaker, this from someone who doesn't really know Star Trek from a bar of soap... Some discussion of his feelings on the Animated Series came up.

He seemed to consider it something of a damp squib: despite being freed of the constraints of period special effects, the writers never let themselves go and explored the possibilities on offer - he said he would have particularly liked to see some non humanoid aliens, or some more inspired Zero-G work. And while I agree with his point, I don't think I've really seen much animation work at all that manages to dramatically explore the potential of the medium like that.

Also, apparently it wasn't as much fun to work with as the original series because all the voice talent recorded their lines separately to each other, in their own booths, and often not even at the same time. How an actor is supposed to build up any sense of timing or interrelation in a scenario like that I can't even begin to guess.

--
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Re:Go the Animated Series by M1FCJ · 2004-05-06 01:29 · Score: 1

I don't think I've really seen much animation work at all that manages to dramatically explore the potential of the medium like that.
I advise to investigate some Japanese stuff, for example Cowboy Bebop. You'll be suprised how they managed to dramatically explore the potential of the medium, just like that.
Re:Go the Animated Series by tehanu · 2004-05-06 01:44 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually recording lines separately is common practice in the US dubbing industry, at least for anime. I think it's supposed to be cheaper and the technical quality is better.

In Japan however, it is common practice to have all the voice actors in the scene in the same room at the same time. You can see them sometimes in extra clips in the recording room, cracking jokes with each other. Some of them become pretty good friends (or at least they seem to become good friends).
Re:Go the Animated Series by NonSequor · 2004-05-06 02:18 · Score: 1

Well personally, I can't quite explain why, but I don't think that Cowboy Bebop lived up to its soundtrack. It just didn't work for me.

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My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Re:Go the Animated Series by Reducer2001 · 2004-05-06 02:43 · Score: 1

I was listening to the commentary on one of my Simpson's DVDs and Matt Groening speaks briefly about this. He says that in the early episodes, all the actors were recording in the same room, laughing at each other's jokes, and improvising.
Now, they all record seperately at different times. I think this is one of the reasons for recent lack of fall-down laughing humor in the Simpsons.

--
When you get to hell -- tell 'em Itchy sent ya!
Re:Go the Animated Series by Unknown+Kadath · 2004-05-06 03:14 · Score: 1

Cowboy Bebop is a series of mood pieces. It definitely doesn't work for everyone, including me.

But, y'know, it's got Ein the cyber-corgi. Who could not like that?

-Carolyn

--
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
Re:Go the Animated Series by CoreyGH · 2004-05-06 03:38 · Score: 3, Informative

Also, apparently it wasn't as much fun to work with as the original series because all the voice talent recorded their lines separately to each other, in their own booths, and often not even at the same time. How an actor is supposed to build up any sense of timing or interrelation in a scenario like that I can't even begin to guess.

Did you get this from Mr. Takei's interview or did you hear it somewhere else? I ask because according to the Animated Star Trek FAQ:
QUESTION 16: I heard that the actors never worked together while recording the voices for the show's characters. Is this true? ANSWER: No. Due to the demanding schedules of the voice actors during the show's production, it was sometimes necessary for actors to record their dialog alone away from the other actor's and then send tapes of their performances to the studio where they could be mixed together with the other dialog to form the show's soundtrack. There was even an occasion in which voice recordings had to be sent in from actors all across the country in order to piece together a particular episode. This was the exception rather than the rule, however, as William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, De Forest Kelley and all the rest of the cast voiced the majority of the episodes together as an ensemble at the recording studio
Re:Go the Animated Series by AJWM · 2004-05-06 04:26 · Score: 1

all the voice talent recorded their lines separately to each other, in their own booths, and often not even at the same time. How an actor is supposed to build up any sense of timing or interrelation in a scenario like that I can't even begin to guess.

Almost all animation is done like that, which is a testament to the talents of the voice actors involved. One exception that comes to mind was "The Road to El Dorado", where the two lead actors (Kevin Kline and Keith Brannagh?) recorded at least some of their scenes together. But mostly it's done seperately, and before the animation is done (sometimes they'll videotape the actors for the animators to work off of, to get facial expressions etc.) Being a good voice actor -- or a good actor, period, -- is harder than it looks in the final product.

Of course, animation technology was a lot more primitive in those days, and when you're cranking out a weekly show you have different contstraints than a feature movie.

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-- Alastair
Re:Go the Animated Series by Galvatron · 2004-05-06 05:50 · Score: 1

Well, first off, the very early episodes really sucked, so we'd have to know which season they switched to say whether it was bad or not. Second, a lot of the conversations are between two voices done by the same actor: Snake and Wiggam, Mr. Burns and Mr. Smithers, and so forth. There's only, what, 6 or so voice actors for a couple dozen characters?

--
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Re:Go the Animated Series by Golias · 2004-05-06 08:14 · Score: 1

Well, first off, the very early episodes really sucked
You sir, are clearly high.
Episode 2, in which Bart cheats on his standardized test and gets places in a "gifted" school, remains one of the funniest half-hours in the history of television. Likewise the season-one family therapy episode in which the whole family (including Maggie) are hooked up to a machine that allows them to electrocute one another. Nothing from recent seasons can compare to it.
All the funniest characters on the show, including "Bleeding Gums" Murphy, Krusty, Monty Burns, Principal Skinner, Apu, Sideshow Bob, Troy McClure, etc., were introduced during those first couple years.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Go the Animated Series by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 08:19 · Score: 0

Of course, timing can be faked, too.
When they film a lot of TV dramas, they typically shoot with long pauses between the lines of different actors, even when they are supposed to interrupt each other. The gaps are then shortened and/or removed during post-production to get the feel they want. It makes editing a lot easier.
Re:Go the Animated Series by Galvatron · 2004-05-06 08:34 · Score: 1

Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit. But have a look at a list of 1st season episodes. Most of them have only one or two really good jokes (Crepes of Wrath with the Albanian child spy, the electrocution scene you mention from the family therapy episode), and there are plenty of episodes that are just plain bad (Telltale Head, Christmas Special). There's no way you're telling me that the Simpsons had declined by, say, season 6 (Itchy and Scratchy Land, Bart vs. Australia, and Two Dozen and One Greyhouds, to name a few). So if the move to record voices seperately was done by then, it cannot be an explanation for why the Simpsons is less funny now.

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"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Re:Go the Animated Series by Golias · 2004-05-06 08:50 · Score: 1

Okay, first of all, the family therapy episode was hillarious from beginning to end, as was the other episode you mentioned. If you didn't bust a gut laughing all the way through them, maybe you were too young back then to catch just how subversive and subtle some of the jokes were. (Such as when the cut-away from the electrocution scene to show Monty Burns cheerfully speculating that the "conservation fad" might finally be over. A two-second throw-away joke which was funnier than any entire sit-com that was on TV at the time.)
That said, I would say that the decline of the Simpsons has a lot more to do with writer turn-over than anything else.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Go the Animated Series by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · 2004-05-06 09:25 · Score: 1

Did you get this from Mr. Takei's interview or did you hear it somewhere else?
I don't really know much about the series apart from what I heard in Mr Takei's Q&A, but I am pretty sure he explicitly said that he would usually find himself coming into the sound studio just as Leonard, for example, was leaving, and that he found this a disapointment. I remember this quite vividly because he repeated it again at the close of his remark ( not for emphasis, I think he just forgot he'd already said it ). Perhaps he was the only one for whom this offset schedule was in place, and if so, I apologise for misrepresenting his comment as being the case for the entire cast.

--
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Re:Go the Animated Series by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · 2004-05-06 11:25 · Score: 1

I watched, and enjoyed, Cowboy Bebop and it's wonderful Soundtrack, but while it did use animation to convey a very real sense of effects which could not have been simply or economically done using minatures or matte shots ( some of the Zero-G sections in 'Heavy Metal Queen' and 'Toys in the Attic' as well as the Shuttle re-entry work in 'Wild Horses' ), the series is really quite retro, and there aren't a lot of effects I can remember where they really let their imagination run away with them.

Perhaps I misspoke. "imaginative potential", or "visual potential" might have been a better phrasing of the above, because while Bebop is a dramatic success ( at least for me ), it could probably have been made with human actors and a minimum of super sophisticated effects work ( which may be part of its charm. )

--
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.

Is anyone else fed up? by John+Seminal · 2004-05-05 22:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

How many times will the studio release a DVD, only to come out with a better release, and another one. It is the same thing with all the Special Editions, followed by the Directors Edition. This is ridiculous. How many times do the Studios want us buying the same movie/show?

I know what I will do. I will wait until the boxed set is released, and then two weeks later I will call Paramount and tell them the disk with the special featurettes is not working, and ask for them to send me a replacement. I will then add that with my current TOS collection.

Or maybe I will put my old DVD's on sale on Ebay. Either way, this is a crooked way to conduct buisness.

--

Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

Re:Is anyone else fed up? by plumby · 2004-05-05 22:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

How many times will the studio release a DVD, only to come out with a better release, and another one. It is the same thing with all the Special Editions, followed by the Directors Edition
As many times as people will buy it.
How many times do the Studios want us buying the same movie/show?
As many as you can.
Either way, this is a crooked way to conduct buisness.
If people want to keep buying them, then the studios are right to keep selling them, surely? There's no law that makes people buy these things. If you think they are a rip-off, then don't buy them. If enough people think they are a rip-off, then the studios will stop doing it.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by MikeHunt69 · 2004-05-05 22:52 · Score: 1

yeah, thats why I offer to make free off-site backups for other people using bittorrent...
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by ch-chuck · 2004-05-05 23:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

Don't forget the prime directive of show business: "Always leave them wanting more".

IOW, you never give away everything, always hold something back for later.

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2004-05-06 00:04 · Score: 1

I read something about the various planned editions of Kill Bill.
There's no excuse any more. When DVD first came out, and you had flippers etc and studios just wanted to get films out, it was fine that later on when the storage level increased, that more extras got added.
In some ways, it's a case of buy what you are happy with. I don't as a rule buy discs without extras, because I know what's coming later. I skipped the 2-disc editions of LOTR because the 4-disc was coming. Likewise, I'll rent Kill Bill and wait a while before I get the full edition.
The best thing is to keep an eye in the right places - websites, newsgroups about what's coming.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Sancho · 2004-05-06 00:13 · Score: 1

I thought dual-layer was around from the beginning. I would assume that the reason DVDs came out without extras originally was because the movie studios were still feeling things out. They had no idea if this crazy DVD thing was really going to take off, and they didn't want to spend a whole lot of time preparing discs that were just going to sit around in a warehouse like an old Atari ET cartridge.
I mean, if you look at some of the original releases (even flippers), the quality is typically pretty poor. They didn't put a lot of effort into color correcting the films, restoring the high quality of the content. Nowadays, lousy video quality tends to be the exception rather than the rule.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Maestro4k · 2004-05-06 00:16 · Score: 3, Insightful
- If people want to keep buying them, then the studios are right to keep selling them, surely? There's no law that makes people buy these things. If you think they are a rip-off, then don't buy them. If enough people think they are a rip-off, then the studios will stop doing it.
I agree with you, but what will probably happen is people are going to catch on and stop buying the first releases of movies. I know of several who refused to by The Two Towers since they knew they'd release the box set later. How this will affect studio sales is anyone's guess right now, but I doubt it'll fit into their plan. (Which obviously seems to be to get you to buy the same movie multiple times with a few extra goodies thrown in each time.) I don't agree with the grandparent that it's a crooked way to do business, but it's certainly very irritating and disrespectful of customers. While most people are just sheep when it comes to consumerism, even sheep notice if you keep kicking them over and over again and react eventually.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Saint+Stephen · 2004-05-06 00:26 · Score: 1

I think this phenomenon is temporary. I have recently bought two Hauppauge PVR tuners and am using SageTV to "fair use" archive all my favorite shows on TV. Basically, HDTV is going to obsolete all this anyway.

What will eventually happen is everything the studio has will be available on demand all the time, and you'll subscribe to a monthly all you can eat service.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by moviepig.com · 2004-05-06 00:40 · Score: 1

...DVD...Special Edition... Directors Edition... How many times do the Studios want us buying the same movie/show?
Perhaps a clue lies in the overall availability chronology: your local multiplex... video stores... pay-per-view... premium channels... basic cable... network...
Seems the idea is to "auction" a property downward through as many audience-interest levels as can be differentiated.
(Personally, there are very few movies I'd watch again when the time could be spent watching nearly any other new one. Different strokes.)

--
Seeing bad movies only encourages them. Watch responsibly
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 00:52 · Score: 0

I know what I will do. I will wait until the boxed set is released, and then two weeks later I will call Paramount and tell them the disk with the special featurettes is not working, and ask for them to send me a replacement. I will then add that with my current TOS collection.

What you are suggesting is such bullshit (and it's unethical).

If I bought an Athlon 2600+, and then AMD came out with the Athlon 3000+ a few months later, would it have been okay for me to call them up and say:
"Hey, I bought a 3000+ and it's busted -- send me a new one!"

Or maybe I will put my old DVD's on sale on Ebay.

That's a much better idea.

Either way, this is a crooked way to conduct buisness.

No, it isn't. They told you what they were selling. You bought it. They gave you the product in return for payment, and it meets the specifications they gave.

If that isn't a legitimate business transaction, I don't know what is.

And remember, no one forced you to buy those DVDs then, and no one is forcing you to buy them now. It's entirely your decision, and making the decision is your responsibility.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 02:22 · Score: 0

Really, do you need a copy of the two towers (or whatever)? (let alone more than one) I really liked the movie it was excellently done, but it's not like I'm gonna watch it all the time. Maybe I'll rent it once or twice, but probably not even that. How many times do you watch a movie? I have maybe a dozen movie DVD's and I never watch them.

Oh wait - maybe the star trek story is the wrong place to bring this up...
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by HD+Webdev · 2004-05-06 02:28 · Score: 2, Insightful

How many times will the studio release a DVD, only to come out with a better release, and another one. It is the same thing with all the Special Editions, followed by the Directors Edition. This is ridiculous. How many times do the Studios want us buying the same movie/show?

It's because they can do it much more cheaply than they could in the Video Tape Era. They would have done it more then if it was cost effective.

Production, shipping, and storing DVD's costs quite a bit less than trying to do the same with VHS tapes.

--
This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by jamshid42 · 2004-05-06 02:50 · Score: 2, Funny

Given the fact that they released an Extended Edition of all three movies, I am expecting that in two to three years, Jackson/New Line will release a combined boxed set. A few years after that, the super-extended editions will be released, one at a time. Then the combined super-extended edition boxed set. After that, we will get the ultra-long director's cut, the 10th anniversary edition, the 25th anniversary edition, and so on.

--
/. - Proof that Sturgeon's Law is true...
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Safety+Cap · 2004-05-06 03:08 · Score: 1

I don't as a rule buy discs without extras, ~.

I agree that is the way to go. Unfortunately, some movies, like The Fifth Element have been out on DVD for almost SEVEN years, and the only "re-release" was to superbit. The DVD has no extras at all, but the movie was excellent.

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Yeah, right.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by tstorm · 2004-05-06 03:16 · Score: 1

This is hardly crooked business. When they started releasing TOS on DVD originally, the TV-on-DVD genre was still in it's infancy and nobody knew how popular the "season set" style was going to be. Paramount went with the standard VHS style which was to throw a couple episodes on a disc. *Many* people have written to them to say they weren't going to buy the series until it was available in season sets, so this is really just Paramount realizing they made a mistake with their initial release strategy and correcting it.

I'm one of those who would rather see Paramount get it right by releasing season sets rather than make everyone else suffer for fear of offending those who bought the initial release.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by poot_rootbeer · 2004-05-06 04:12 · Score: 1

I know of several who refused to by The Two Towers since they knew they'd release the box set later.

And I know of several MILLION who bought it anyway.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Golias · 2004-05-06 08:32 · Score: 1

If, by "excellent," you mean "mostly okay" then I agree completely. The special effects were good for the time, the flying car chases were fun, and Chris Tucker got a laugh or two with his Prince impersonation, but mostly it had the feel of an independent comic book from the late 1980s transferred onto a movie set with lots of plastic props. Also the writing was awful, and the villian was hammy and broad.
Four stars out of ten. Good for a rental; or to show off your home theater setup. Sort of like "Stargate"... except it also has a clown-haired Milla Jovovich dressed in bandages.

--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by Squozen · 2004-05-06 11:43 · Score: 1

Dual layer discs existed, but very few pressing plants had the capability to produce them in the beginning, so many titles came out on flippers rather than 12 months later when the pressing schedules eased up.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by CaptainAvatar · 2004-05-06 16:40 · Score: 1

I even know someone who bought the first release, KNOWING he was going to buy the extended edition in a few months time as well! (And no, it wasn't me!!!!) That's just silly.

--
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 19:55 · Score: 1

Um, what's wrong with this, exactly? Don't we keep whining about adding value to the stuff, and don't they keep adding value? Personally, I really appreciate the fact that they keep releasing the stuff like this, because that usually means that I can always buy it, whenever I decide I want it.
Compare it to Disney, who holds a release for years, waiting for everybody to build up anticipation and crap, and then releases it in limited quantities at really high prices, only to hold it again for many years. *THat* is beating the sheep.
For the record, I'm really really pissed at George Lucas for doing the same thing with Star Wars. I'm really happy he did the makeover on the series (although I'd really like to get the original footage again for the first movie, because that CG Jabba really sucks, and god dammit Jabba the Hutt was originally a fat guy with a beard) and released it again in the theaters, so I could relive TESB in the theater. But I'm really pissed he's been holding out so long on the DVD release of those things. I went ahead and downloaded some high-quality VHS rips, and I don't think I'll be *that* interested in the DVDs. (Not that I'd buy them anyway, DVDs with CSS fall under one of my current boycotts ;) )

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:Is anyone else fed up? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 20:06 · Score: 1

it had the feel of an independent comic book from the late 1980s transferred onto a movie set with lots of plastic props.
That's *exactly* why I like this movie so much. It's not serious sci-fi, and it was obviously not meant to be. It's a helluva action flick, and Bruce Willis plays a role that so closely resembles his original Moonlighting role (only without the slapstick part of the role, admittedly a large part). All the characters are satirical in nature, including and especially the President. It's a great flick with a lot of depth. Even Chris Tucker (or was it Chris Rock? I can't tell those guys apart) wasn't annoying, he was actually useful!
Also the writing was awful
How so? You indicated it was like a comic book, and it definitely has a plot similar to what you'd find in a 4 or 5 book series. Yeah, it's oozing cheese, but if you wanted a not-cheesy sci-fi flick, then this movie isn't for you. In fact, if you want a not-cheesy sci-fi flick with Bruce Willis in the lead, check out 12 Monkeys.
the villian was hammy and broad.
Eh? Hammy and broad? The villain was pure, unadulterated evil. Or are you talking about the guy with the Texan accent? He rules! He's a villain that's very easy to love and still oppose philosophically.
On top of that, the directing was just plain awesome. Plenty of good comic-strip stuff going on, like when old half-baldy opens the box and says "Where's the stones?" and then it cuts to the blue lady telling Bruce WIllis where the stones are. Absolutely nowhere is it possible to even lose track of where the story is and what each character is doing. And every single actor played their part about as perfectly as it could be done (except, possibly, for the President).
Man, it was a very well made movie. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it's definitely a very well-made movie, well deserving a place in the annals of good classic sci-fi flicks, and it's a classic in its own time, I'd say. Except maybe it didn't get as much popular appeal as it should've, even with all the cheese that's guaranteed to appeal popularly.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music

Regions... by pubjames · 2004-05-05 22:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

I hate frickin' DVD "regions".

Several times I've wanted to rent an imported video from my local rental shop and I haven't been able to rent it because it won't play on my DVD.

Deliberately making a product that some people can't use! What the hell is that about!??

Re:Regions... by unknown51a · 2004-05-05 22:47 · Score: 0

It is to prevent people in other countries elling dvds to the masses for next to nothing before its official release. Lets hope they would do it with operating systems...i mean, then i would actually have to buy windows to do my college work!

--
I had an imaginary sig once, he said I was a loser and ran off.
Re:Regions... by John+Seminal · 2004-05-05 22:47 · Score: 3, Informative

Regions are not the problem, the problem is the differance between the PAL and NTSC formats. You could have a region free DVD player, but all those DVD's from eurpoe are PAL formatted, which means you need a PAL tv or a way to convert the PAL signal to NTSC. I heard the only way to play them is on a laptop because most laptops can display PAL.

--
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Re:Regions... by ArbiterOne · 2004-05-05 22:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Or, alternatively, one can just buy a multi-system TV. One that plays PAL and NTSC. I live overseas but have American tapes, etc. so I need multi-system all the time.
Re:Regions... by Nasarius · 2004-05-05 22:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've had absolutely no trouble playing Region 2/PAL DVDs on my American TV. Perhaps some televisions cannot display PAL properly...

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LOAD "SIG",8,1
Re:Regions... by Dot.Com.CEO · 2004-05-05 23:02 · Score: 4, Informative

PAL is higher resolution than NTSC so one of two things is happening:
1. Your TV is multisystem and correctly handles the PAL signal. AFAIK, you are in the minority
2. Your DVD handles the conversion from PAL to NTSC and what you see on your TV is a converted signal.
From conversations with American friends, I believe you have succeeded with a fluke where others have spent lots to have acceptable results.

--
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
Re:Regions... by caffeineboy · 2004-05-05 23:03 · Score: 3, Informative

Usually DVD players that can play multiple regions of DVD can also output in either PAL or NTSC and convert on the fly between the two formats. My current player (Sampo 611) does this, as did the previous player (Raite 750).

Check out the explanation of multi-region DVD players from amazon.co.uk

--
+++ ATH0 +++
Re:Regions... by Zarhan · 2004-05-05 23:16 · Score: 2, Informative

Regions are not the problem, the problem is the differance between the PAL and NTSC formats. You could have a region free DVD player, but all those DVD's from eurpoe are PAL formatted, which means you need a PAL tv or a way to convert the PAL signal to NTSC. I heard the only way to play them is on a laptop because most laptops can display PAL.

I live in Finland, which is a PAL country. These days I have a new multinorm widescreen TV.

However, before that, all I had was an old 21" 4:3 tube that had never heard of NTSC. Yet I could easily play R1/NTSC DVDs - without conversions.

How? Component signal format. The TV also accepted RGB (In the US, YPbPr is more common). PAL and NTSC color codings are both ways to transmit color information. If I use RGB, the information is in "raw" format that the TV understands anyway.

Only requirement is that the TV can sync to both 50 and 60 Hz signals. This is very common and not advertised too often - even old tubes from the 60's could do it.

Use component format whenever you can. The picture quality increases tremendously compared to composite (S-Video is a compromise, and you still need to worry about PAL/NTSC). this does not only apply to DVD players, but also game consoles and whatever else you are connecting to TV.
Re:Regions... by Hatta · 2004-05-05 23:17 · Score: 1

So, regions are implemented to restrict our right of first sale. Yep.

And what sort of college work requires windows? Linux has suited me fine through college and 2 years of grad school.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Regions... by Eccles · 2004-05-05 23:22 · Score: 3, Informative

From conversations with American friends, I believe you have succeeded with a fluke where others have spent lots to have acceptable results.

Both my U.S.-purchased DVD players can be region-modded and can play PAL DVDs with NTSC output, and I paid $170 and $80 for them a year or more ago. It's not a fluke, it's smart shopping, although the DVD-CCA nazis may be making it harder these days.

--
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Re:Regions... by tarunthegreat2 · 2004-05-05 23:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

On the contrary, regions are a big problem, and they do NOT prevent piracy they BOOST piracy. Most TVs, DVD players, and Computers have the option to switch between NTSC and PAL (I'm writing to u from Asia, and we have that option, I'm sure American TVs/Computers do too. However, with this fucked up region system, here's what happens. LOTR fans in Asia would like to own the LOTR DVD. However, these LOTR fans are bracketed in Region 5 (I'm talking about the Indian Sub-Continent here).

Question: How many Hollywood movies were released in Region 5 this yr? The answer is FIVE, and LOTR was not one of them. So people in Asia have the choice of paying $20 for the DVD + $20 Shipping to Asia from America, to get a Region 1 DVD which their hacked DVD player will play...OR.... they could go down to the local bootlegger and get a pirated DVD/VideoCD.

Let's see what would happen in a non-region encoding situation:

LOTR DVD is released, simultaneously worldwide. Person in god-forsaken 3rd-world country has easy access to the legal, region-free DVD at local prices...

--
My Favourite Meme
Re:Regions... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 23:49 · Score: 0

NTSC, or as CG Animators and serious graphic artists call it 'Never Twice the Same Color'.

From what I understand NTSC is a legacy of unmitigated shiteness and the only reason it still exists in the USA is due to old industry inertia.
Re:Regions... by The+Wicked+Priest · 2004-05-05 23:57 · Score: 1

I have yet to buy a DVD player that wasn't able to convert PAL to NTSC, or vice versa, on the fly. Granted, they mostly don't do a great job of it, but it's watchable. And heck, even unconverted PAL is watchable on my NTSC TV -- it comes out stretched, monochrome and a little flickery, but I can see what's going on.

So yes, regions ARE the problem. Fortunately, region-free players, and hacks to make players region-free, are widely available. Check out rpc1.org for a start.

--
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Re:Regions... by Chalybeous · 2004-05-06 00:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

Interestingly, I understand that an increasing number of DVDs of older shows are being released in a "region zero" (region-free) format.
My understanding of the rationale behind this is to cut the production costs on something which will sell, but not sell enough in some areas to make region coding worthwhile. When they're around 20 or so years old, there's not much to lose to piracy.
On the other hand, stopping the region-coding of movies might be bad for the cinema industry. Why? Well, take the movie Galaxy Quest. The UK theatrical release date was the same as the US DVD release date. Given the prevalence of international sales via, say, eBay and Amazon, I can imagine people being tempted to buy a DVD and sell it if they don't like it, or buy a secondhand one.

That said, IMHO movies like LotR wouldn't be hurt due to simultaneous releases, unless they take more than a year to get out to the most remote cinemas in some parts of the world.

So, the long and short? My 2c is that region encoding is good for the industry in some cases (and also means they don't have to squeeze every language soundtrack or subtitle onto the same disc), but is also detrimental to the industry - if, for example, ST:TOS had been released in region-free format originally, Paramount would have easily at least doubled, if not tripled, their sales. (I don't intend to buy it now. The profile says recovering ex-Trekkie, and not only do I not want to waste the money on that stuff, but that packaging is hideous.)

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Regions... by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2004-05-06 00:11 · Score: 1

LOTR DVD is released, simultaneously worldwide. Person in god-forsaken 3rd-world country has easy access to the legal, region-free DVD at local prices...
And conversely, people in 1st-world countries get DVDs at 3rd world prices, which they import.
That's what regions are there for, to ensure that pricing differentials could be maintained, as well as release dates.
Here in the UK, anyone with half a brain has a multi-region player. There are so many films which are US-only or released first in the US, that it's silly not to.
Re:Regions... by Handpaper · 2004-05-06 01:28 · Score: 1

No, region coding and staggered release dates contribute to copyright violation and file-sharing.
Case in point. Finding Nemo had a DVD release in the US months before the cinema release in the UK. Result? Weeks before the UK cinema release I had an excellent (XviD) DVD-rip of the film. The kids (and I) loved it, and watched it many times.
Now here's the important bit. Had the film enjoyed a simultaneous release in the UK and US, I would have bought the DVD, and considered it money well spent. I already own legit copies of Toy Story, Monsters, Inc.,Toy Story 2 and A Bug's Life. I could go out and buy the DVD now, but what would be the point? The kids have moved on to other things, and so have I.
Re:Regions... by rishistar · 2004-05-06 01:57 · Score: 1

I have yet to buy a DVD player. And I'm not a trekkie. So maybe reading until the end of this thread was a mistake.

--
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
Re:Regions... by albanac · 2004-05-06 02:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why? Well, take the movie Galaxy Quest. The UK theatrical release date was the same as the US DVD release date. Given the prevalence of international sales via, say, eBay and Amazon, I can imagine people being tempted to buy a DVD and sell it if they don't like it, or buy a secondhand one.

There is an answer to this, which certain high-profile and high-revenue projects have recently used and made popular (Cf. Peter Jackson's LOTR project): release the damn theatrical cuts on the same day world-wide. The old communications barrier is non-existant, the only reasons not to do this are psychological, and as LOTR etc. proved you can make a great deal of money and generate a great deal of good-will very quickly by doing this.

Oh yeah, and it also completely eradicates the 'international piracy risk' argument.
~cHris
Re:Regions... by jpkunst · 2004-05-06 02:26 · Score: 1

However, before that, all I had was an old 21" 4:3 tube that had never heard of NTSC. Yet I could easily play R1/NTSC DVDs - without conversions. How? Component signal format. The TV also accepted RGB (In the US, YPbPr is more common). PAL and NTSC color codings are both ways to transmit color information. If I use RGB, the information is in "raw" format that the TV understands anyway.

Thank you very much. I was convinced that I could watch NTSC DVD's only in black and white on my TV. I was even contemplating buying a new TV. I switched the DVD output to RGB, as you advised, and my NTSC DVD's now play in glorious colour. Thanks again!

JP
Re:Regions... by dcm1101 · 2004-05-06 04:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

No, region coding is the problem. PAL/NTSC/SECAM are all ANALOG video standards which mainly have to do with chrominance encoding, number of lines and frame rate. Once the analog to digital conversion occurs, the chroma encoding difference goes away, since MPEG-2 is MPEG-2. This means that the only differences between a PAL and NTSC DVD are: the number of active lines (480 vs 576) and the frame rate (29.97 vs. 25) - the line difference is handled automatically in the decoding process by most DACs - they output whatever your display can accept - while the frame rate difference results, at worst, in a little skip every so often. And for a practical demonstration of the above theory, ask anyone who's taken an off-the-shelf DVD player with hackable firmware (though lord knows I'm not advocating any such thing. That would be illegal) and upgraded to a R0 player. IT WORKS FINE. I suspect most hardware manufacturers use an MPEG-2 implementation that supports multi-format playback in the secret hope that one day region coding will go away.
Re:Regions... by Zarhan · 2004-05-06 04:51 · Score: 1

Great, you can probably now see significant quality increase as well. If you otherwise cannot see the difference, switch subtitles on (whatever language) and look at the font clarity :)
Re:Regions... by PCM2 · 2004-05-06 05:18 · Score: 1

(I'm writing to u from Asia, and we have that option, I'm sure American TVs/Computers do too.
Actually, multi-region players and PAL/NTSC conversion are quite common in Europe and Asia, but not so common in the U.S. Most of us here are still dealing with single-region, NTSC-only players. To get region-free, you still have to buy from a "gray market" dealer, or punch in some kind of code that you found out somewhere, to disable the region coding. If you want PAL/NTSC conversion, you want to look for a second-tier brand imported from Asia. I recommend the Koreans, e.g. Daewoo.

--
Breakfast served all day!
Re:Regions... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 05:24 · Score: 0

$20 for the DVD + $20 Shipping to Asia from America

Let's see what would happen in a non-region encoding situation

they could go down to the local bootlegger and get a pirated DVD/VideoCD

That is what happens even IF regions go away. They just would not release it there. 40 dollars vs 2 bucks for a movie you only 'sorta' like?

Regions are about price control. And playing the money markets. The people making the goods want to play the money market they want to lock the choice out from you. They want to make the money not you. It is a way to not have you compete against them with their own product. Bogus yes and in many countries marginaly legal. CSS is the enforcment of that region control. They KNEW it was 'pretty weak' even when they made it. DIVX had a MUCH stronger key system but no one cared or wanted it. They wanted it to be strong enough for long enough for them to come out with a new one (HD-DVD). It was cracked sooner than they had planed on...

I could also never really figure out why there isnt worldwide releases of 'blockbuster' last year movies. Even WITH regions. Its not like it costs THAT much to reencode it with a different region. The big cost would be the production of discs shipping and changes to the artwork.
Re:Regions... by multiplexo · 2004-05-06 07:25 · Score: 1

I have owned two Denon DVD players that have an option for switching from NTSC to PAL output. Denons are a bit pricey, but they do make nice kit.

I'm confused as to what the regions do other than piss off fans. When I was living in Germany five years ago it took about eight weeks after a major movie was released in the US for it to be dubbed (Germans don't do subtitles) and released in Germany, also since DVD players are so damned cheap nowadays spending the money to get an extra player that you dedicate to R1 isn't too much of a burden.

--
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Re:Regions... by IPFreely · 2004-05-06 08:58 · Score: 2, Informative

release the damn theatrical cuts on the same day world-wide.
Easier said than done. One of the things that happens when a movie is released nation wide is that the movie company has to make several thousand copies of the movie on film. That is an expensive and time consuming process. It is also one of the reasons that movies releases are often staggered. The actual film copy is reused from one region to another for later releases.
Small or independant films don't even release nationwide. They make fewer copies of film and move them around to show them.
This is one of the reasons Lucas is pushing so hard to make digital releases: Low reproduction cost, and easier distribution. As richer cinema companies upgrade their projection systems, more movies can be distributed digitally. But its slow and expensive to replace thousands of projectors around the world. Many (most) can't afford it now or anytime soon. We'll be dealing with the expense and logistics of film stock for a while yet.

--
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Re:Regions... by nomadic · 2004-05-06 10:57 · Score: 1

Or you can just buy a new DVD player and make that one your region whatever player. Not as bad as it sounds, prices for players and DVD-ROM drives have gotten so low that it's probably worth it to get another one if you watch that many non-region 1 movies.
Re:Regions... by albanac · 2004-05-06 22:01 · Score: 1

I'm aware of the cost of a 35mm print for cinematic release, however, the indepenent and guerrilla film-makers are not the ones complaining about people beating the artificial scarcities created by staggered release through internet piracy. It's the blockbuster makers who have an issue with that, and for them, the solution I presented is more than feasible: again I say, LOTR.
~cHris
Re:Regions... by PCM2 · 2004-05-07 05:21 · Score: 1

That may be fine for computers, but my set-top DVD player doesn't give me the option of changing regions when I stick in a disc that isn't Region 1. I don't remember ever seeing one that does.

--
Breakfast served all day!
Re:Regions... by Chalybeous · 2004-05-09 09:45 · Score: 1

The actual film copy is reused from one region to another for later releases.

... and at sneak previews or press screenings, this really shows. My local cinema often invites my boss (as he owns the local speciality sci-fi/cult TV store) and local schoolchildren (often from the school where my mum teaches) to sneak previews for word-of-mouth publicity, and so I see a few films early, either with my boss to do in-store advertising, or with my mum as a chaperone.
Believe you me, the state of the prints can and does show! For example, Disney's "Haunted Mansion" was previewed using a copy FedExed in from the US. The actual opening, five days later, used a new copy - for the most popular non-digital films, they do tend to bring in new copies for the major cinema chains, and circulate them out to smaller ones eventually, as the US prints can be pretty badly worn.

This is just in my experience, and with my sparse knowledge of the local cinema's operations. Maybe the situation is different outside of the UK, or depending on the film... anyone knows better, fill me in?

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:Regions... by song-of-the-pogo · 2004-05-10 06:43 · Score: 1

i'd be interested to know what dvd players those are, as there are several european-only dvds i'd like to purchase and watch ...

--
soupy twist
Re:Regions... by Eccles · 2004-05-10 06:54 · Score: 1

Models change so rapidly these days you probably couldn't find the ones I have. But google "region free DVD' and you'll find various pages that list models with region hacks of various types.

--
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.

SOLLY CHOLLY by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 22:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

Fscking racist.

Re:SOLLY CHOLLY by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:23 · Score: 0, Insightful

Unfortunate that this was voted down...

see here:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=106604&cid=907 1908

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:SOLLY CHOLLY by kahei · 2004-05-05 23:35 · Score: 0, Offtopic

How is that a troll? Looks like a plain old statement. Could be considered offtopic, I guess, but then what was the cartoon Chinese accent doing in the article in the first place?

--
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Re:SOLLY CHOLLY by Chess_the_cat · 2004-05-06 00:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

Not a troll. Re-read the submitter's post again.

--
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Re:SOLLY CHOLLY by LighthouseJ · 2004-05-06 01:06 · Score: 0

I just ran out of mod points the other day, else I'd reverse this Troll status. That slur is just atrocious.

Parallell (sp?) by ArbiterOne · 2004-05-05 22:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

The boxed sets of LOTR are probably making tons of money... perhaps that's why these people decided to recapitalize on a decades-old series.
Not that it's bad or anything!
Wait until this (and LOTR) goes gold, platinum, super-platinum collector's edition with Enterprise scale model, etc.
Then they release The Hobbit/TAS, and the cycle begins again.

Re:Parallell (sp?) by AliasTheRoot · 2004-05-05 23:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

In my local music/video/dvd emporium the collectors editions with the free granite statue of gollum and the special edition of two towers cost less than the special edition of two towers.

why? because the store is sick of carrying a bunch of stock that takes up half of their storeroom and noone buys. I did buy the collectors edition the other day, took the dvd out and threw the rest of the packaging in the bin.
Re:Parallell (sp?) by mblase · 2004-05-06 00:36 · Score: 1

You joke, but Peter Jackson actually is on record as saying he wants to re-release the LotR movies in HD-DVD format (in whichever format wins the forthcoming war) once he's done tackling "King Kong".

Whenever a new format appears, everything has to get moved to it. Whenever consumers demand more than what they have, they're given the option to pay for it. C'est la capitalism.

Great I hope Shatner does commentery by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 22:46 · Score: 4, Funny

"In this scene ... I ... was ... motivated ... by ... the ... "

Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by revolvement · 2004-05-05 22:47 · Score: 1, Interesting

...But I do not remember an Animated Trek series at all. Could someone explain more about it?

Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 23:04 · Score: 3, Informative

You can be forgiven for being too young to know what it is, it was shown in the early-mid '70s after all.
Here is the imdb entry
Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by revolvement · 2004-05-05 23:11 · Score: 1

It looks like it'd be a really interesting animated series, what with them having the original cast doing voiceovers and whatnot. It's a shame they're not re-releasing it as well.
Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by Maestro4k · 2004-05-06 00:13 · Score: 2, Informative

It was basically the same as the original series, most of the same cast, with the actual TOS cast doing the voices. Some of the stories were able to be a bit more out-there since the animated medium allowed for doing things it would have been difficult (or impossible) to do on TV at the time.
It's not too surprising you don't remember it, I was a kid when it was airing, and I never saw it. From what I've gathered over the years it didn't see really wide-spread distribution viewing-area-wise. I found out about it first in the 90's myself. You can find it online in newsgroups, on torrent sites and P2P. If you like Star Trek I'd recommend you hunt down an episode or two to watch to see what you think about it.
Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by ForemastJack · 2004-05-06 00:43 · Score: 1

You know, it was pretty good, too. Even the Niven episode.

For those of a later generation, like myself, I remember watching the episodes in the late 80s on -- I think -- Nickelodeon. (In the U.S.)

The art was clean and the characters were drawn like Platonic ideals of themselves. I mean, Kirk was broad shouldered with no paunch! And Uhura, who wasn't exactly ugly in real life, was drawn smokin' hot.

I feel dirty for remembering that.
Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by SpacePunk · 2004-05-06 00:50 · Score: 1

The Star Trek Log books are the same stories as the animated series.

--
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Re:Wow, I really must be showing my youth... by cayenne8 · 2004-05-06 02:27 · Score: 1

"You can be forgiven for being too young to know what it is..."
Yeah...scary thing is...I remember watching it first run as a kid back in the day when they still had good Sat. morning cartoons to look forward to...

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........

more money fleeced from TOS fans by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 22:48 · Score: 5, Funny

"it's a scam Jim, but not as we know it"

Re:more money fleeced from TOS fans by sweet+cunny+muffin · 2004-05-05 23:49 · Score: 0

How is it a scam to offer a product for sale?
Re:more money fleeced from TOS fans by nharmon · 2004-05-06 00:02 · Score: 1

Damnit muffin, I'm a doctor, not cashier

Why just a laptop? by benzapp · 2004-05-05 22:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

I simply don't see how a laptop would be unable to play such a DVD but a desktop would not..

--
I don't read or respond to AC posts

Re:Why just a laptop? by revolvement · 2004-05-05 23:14 · Score: 1

I simply don't see how a laptop would be unable to play such a DVD but a desktop would not..

Shh, Jack Valenti might hear you!

TAS DVD by farnerup · 2004-05-05 22:58 · Score: 3, Funny

One also has to wonder why in the world they are still refusing to offer the The Animated Series on DVD,

Actually, they wanted to, but apparently it violates some treaty

You ripped yourself off, bub by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 23:02 · Score: 5, Informative

YOU chose to buy 2 episodes for $20 (and you bought the ENTIRE series?), so don't complain to the supplier if you are willing to buy.

Re:You ripped yourself off, bub by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 10:52 · Score: 0

Fry's has these two-episode discs for $15. I got four of them, just enough to get a flavour of what the original series was like. It's actually a lot chepaer for those of us who just want to watch the occassional episode here or there for nostalgia purposes.

Thanks for telling me what to mod this! by King_of_Prussia · 2004-05-05 23:03 · Score: 2, Funny

I was planning to mod it as -1 Flamebait, but your closing argument convinced me otherwise!

--

Making the moon less necessary since 1998.

Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

What kind of racist crap is this? It shouldn't be in a /. article, for one thing. Bad taste. VERY BAD TASTE.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/

Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm waiting for this to be modded down and trampled under the other posts, but you have to admit, if they put "Uhh yessa massa!" It'd be a different story.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:11 · Score: 5, Informative

Etymology for those who wanna know:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Solly+Cholly% 22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=19961218211501 .QAA03185%40ladder01.news.aol.com&rnum=1

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by jdcook · 2004-05-05 23:23 · Score: 5, Funny

"What kind of racist crap is this? It shouldn't be in a /. article, for one thing. Bad taste. VERY BAD TASTE."

How the fuck did this get modded troll? "Solly Cholly" *IS* racist crap. It *SHOULDN'T* be in /. Or if it's now acceptable, can we expect the "Gay Nigger" trolls to get on the front page?

--
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:25 · Score: 0, Offtopic

THANK YOU for realizing what I was saying and shooting down the "Troll" mod. If you read at -1, there are others who were modded down as well.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-05 23:28 · Score: 1, Offtopic

I mailed cmdrtaco and simonkier to change the article description WITH EDIT, and we'll see if it actually happens.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by kahei · 2004-05-05 23:54 · Score: 0

Yeah, it'd be a story about Jar Jar Binks.

*trampled to death under a stampede of negative moderations*

--
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Azghoul · 2004-05-06 00:17 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I shocked hardly anyone else has commented on it. I'm basically a live-and-let-live kind of guy, don't care too much if you call me names, but even I noticed that as just plain strange...
Re:Solly Cholly??? by sckeener · 2004-05-06 00:27 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Thanks, I didn't know.

Ignorane of this is bliss, but it doesn't help me in spotting the racists in the world.

--
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-06 00:36 · Score: 0, Offtopic

You had a point until you ended with your post with a racial epithet.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-05-06 00:38 · Score: 0, Offtopic

There are double standards regerding this, and it is not the first time, although possibly a first in a front page write-up.

Why is nigger is considered unnacceptable in most uses, but redskin is acceptable even as a major sports team name?
Re:Solly Cholly??? by fraudrogic · 2004-05-06 00:49 · Score: 0, Redundant

I for one welcome our L for R switcher overlords...

--
I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Midnight+Thunder · 2004-05-06 01:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

What kind of racist crap is this? It shouldn't be in a /. article, for one thing. Bad taste. VERY BAD TASTE

Most people probably didn't comment on this either because they only skimmed over the text of the posting, because they had no idea that it had any racial conotation, or were unphased. I am in he first two groups (didn't fully read the text and didn't know the expression). I had no idea what the expression is about and I have never heard it until now. I take it that is purely USA slang?

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by cayenne8 · 2004-05-06 02:31 · Score: 1

Geez...lighten up.
Seems like everyone gets offended at the smallest thing these days. Drop the 'Politcal Correctness' for a bit, and relax, no one means anything by this...just poking humor.

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Keebler71 · 2004-05-06 02:53 · Score: 1

For what it is worth, I am American and also had neither heard of this, nor knew what it meant (until a google search that is)

--
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
Re:Solly Cholly??? by simoniker · 2004-05-06 03:01 · Score: 5, Informative

The phrase has been removed by me and an update posted - apologies, I edited this submission extensively last night, and even Googled for 'solly cholly' to see if it was a swearword, because I had't heard of it, but saw lots of other people (who obviously also didn't know its original etymology) using it in normal speech, so I let it pass.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by skermit · 2004-05-06 03:14 · Score: 1

Thank you very much.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Solly Cholly??? by swb · 2004-05-06 03:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is "Fighting Irish" acceptable? Because we know that all Irish are drunken brawlers? And what about the Celtics' logo? Do you think Irish like always being associated with leprechauns?

Of course that doesn't matter, since these debates are only about minorities and their narrow, politically correct agendas where abuse/degredation of whites is OK.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 03:23 · Score: 0

Is it really "racist" to notice and/or mock the linguistic quirks of people who speak English with a foreign accent? Culturally insensitive, perhaps, but let's not throw around a word like "racist" over something as silly as making fun of R/L confusion.
Are you going to try to tell me that Asians don't think it's funny that we English-speakers can't hear the differences between "sa" and "tsa"?
My Japanese is appalling, and any teasing I endure because of this is taken in the spirit in which it's intended.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 03:38 · Score: 0

I think it's ironic that by complaining about "Solly Cholly", you've given it a wider audience. By the time I saw the article, the offending quote had been removed.
But here, sure enough, is a thread that promotes the phrase it in all its racially-insensitive glory.
Whine on, brother!
Re:Solly Cholly??? by SollyCholly · 2004-05-06 04:20 · Score: 1

Thank you simoniker. I am relieved to know my name will no longer be spammed around /.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by reidbold · 2004-05-06 04:24 · Score: 1

Fighting Irish isn't bad imo, it's just a team that (at one point) was irish (maybe), and they fight to win.

irish isn't a slur, maybe if it were the 'Fighting Mc's', then that would be no good.

But it's true, you can't make fun of black people for being black. Even saying 'black culture sucks' will get you labelled as a racist these days.

--
-Reid
Re:Solly Cholly??? by reidbold · 2004-05-06 04:26 · Score: 1

Because the united states killed almost all of the natives a long time ago.

--
-Reid
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Monkey · 2004-05-06 04:48 · Score: 1

If you've seen Lost In Translation, the R with L confusion by the Japanese seems to be a running gag throughout the film. I don't recall anybody screaming that the movie was racist, it's just how they were portrayed as speaking.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by jdcook · 2004-05-06 05:23 · Score: 1

Funny? Pass me some of that.

--
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 05:58 · Score: 0

It appears from the Google link that this is more specifically a reference to Japanese soldiers firing on American soldiers as the latter attempted to surrender. Which they admittedly did do at the time, but comparing modern day Japanese to their WW2 forebears can be seen as racist too.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:07 · Score: 0

You sneaky bastard! You should be ashamed... making fun of people with speech imp- impe- imped- impediments.

I'd watch out for Mr. Wu if I were wu... errr... you.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:07 · Score: 0

What kind, you ask? A serious answer would be that it is no kind, at all. There is nothing even remotely racist about that comment. What does racist mean. Merriam Webster says "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race". The phrase Solly Cholly played on a language quirk that was based in observation. It denoted no inferiority, and was merely observational. It was akin the the stereotype of American speaking loud to someone who does not understand English. Whether either is funny is up to you. But, neither is remotely racist.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:16 · Score: 0

Sure, but as you point out, it can also be seen as historical. If it were used to refer not to people today, but rather to those in WW2, would it be any better?

It is pretty funny that this particular "racial epithet" might have been relegated to the history books if not for one or two people's remaining sensitivity over it.

Just the fact that the original /. entry was changed made me curious to find out why. Now I know two more words I can't use without offending someone, and I'm not sure that is a good thing.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by swb · 2004-05-06 07:17 · Score: 1

Fighting Irish isn't considered bad because by and large the Irish accepted their reputation as a badge of honor, in as much as many Italians accept a wiseguy reputation -- both impart a certain toughness and swagger.

What I resent isn't that, for example, idea that Redskins is a degrading team name, but that all kinds of other European ethnic stereotypes are considered acceptable but ANY ethnic stereotype of non-Europeans is considered taboo, even if the stereotype being used (eg, Warriors or Braves) represents a set of characteristics that are by and large seen as noble and courageous.

Either ALL ethnic team names and stereotypes are off limits, or none are.

But all this is part and parcel of the idea that racism is something exclusive to whites. Don't even get me stated on the massive fraud that is the "hate crime". A half-dozen blacks rob, rape and beat a white woman senseless and it's not a hate crime; a white guy uses a racial epithet in the course of cutting somebody off on the freeway and there's a DOJ investigation of his hate crime.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:37 · Score: 0

Did you happen to notice that the newsgroup post you linked to ended with "Solly, Stevie!"? Damn, these racists are everywhere! Well, if not racists, then at least linguists... err... speech impedimists? oh, oh, I know, lallationists!

Oh, wait... you mean it's historical? That some WW2 Japanese soldiers said that to American troops before killing them? ... and therefore, it is wrong to refer to those soldiers that way?

I missed the original use of "Solly, Cholly" on /., so I can't tell in what sense it was used. I'd be surprised if most people knew what it meant (at least in the racially derogatory sense, though, obviously, the speech impediment sense is not racial). In fact, I'd guess that the majority of people who do know the historical meaning of that phrase are Asian. Even fewer would have known about it if not for your taking offense... it could have died off into oblivion.

Seems a bit like taking offense at the word "nigger", yet some black people propagate its use. Jeez (which is a euphamism for Jesus, because I'd apparently be offending Christians if I took the Lord's name in vain)... now I feel guilty for saying "nigger". Modern society has sure molded me well.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Old+Wolf · 2004-05-06 08:39 · Score: 1

What did the original story text say? (I read it and I don't see where those words would fit in). BTW if it's racist, who is it racist against? Someone in this thread suggested it was anti-Japanese but it is rare for racist behaviour to generate this sort of level of complaint on slashdot, unless it is anti-black americans. Where are all the people protesting the anti-iraqi racism.

(BTW: where you wrote 'unphased' you mean 'unfazed')
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Midnight+Thunder · 2004-05-06 08:51 · Score: 1

BTW: where you wrote 'unphased' you mean 'unfazed'

Thanks, you're right. I don't think I was talking material state. :)

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by zakezuke · 2004-05-06 09:53 · Score: 1

I take it that is purely USA slang?

I don't believe this is USA slang at all. "Sorry Charly" I remember seeing on "star-kissed tuna" comercials... and I have heard "Sorry Charley" mispronounced but never thought anything of it. In fact, I'm not sure when Charley became Joe as the uniform name of all americans, as in "GI-Joe".

But franky I'm not up on racial sterotypes. For example I was talking with a gent about restoring my 1966 ford f-250 truck and he refered to it as an abo-tonka truck. It made me sad that the expression was used in such a negative racial context because Ford did release a Tonka edition of their truck, and a classic truck being common place in a very rough enviroment is something to be admired and respected. Otherwise if I can prove there are 60s fords in common use by aboriginal Australians I'd get a license plate fram that says "Aboriginal Tonka Truck".

--
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by zakezuke · 2004-05-06 10:11 · Score: 1

What did the original story text say?

One also has to wonder why in the world they are still refusing to offer the The Animated Series on DVD, forcing one to buy the bootlegs if you want to get your hands on a copy. Solly cholly. VHS only

Apparently solly cholly is a misprounounced "Sorry Charley" missing up the R and L sounds which is a common mistake by native Japaneese speakers. While I agree this could be seen as being offencive, I would have never have understood the remark in its text form. I glanced at it and assumed it was a proper name like Dale Chihuly. After all one of the first things that tended to happen with people immigrating to America was the butchering of their names so it would be able to be written in the English alphabet.

--
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 12:25 · Score: 0

Shut the fuck up, dink brat.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 12:34 · Score: 0

You had a point until you ended with your post with a racial epithet.

Please engage your brain! He still has a point!
Quoting from "Pink Panther" or not is irrelevant to him having a point or not. He hasn't contradicted his point.

By the way, "racial epithet" (yellow, white, curly-haired, ...) doesn't equal "racial slur" or "insult", unless you think that people should feel a reason to be ashamed for their racial characteristics.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 20:24 · Score: 1

"Politically correct means tagalong stupid."
Just in case you didn't already know. ;)

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:Solly Cholly??? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 20:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

but that all kinds of other European ethnic stereotypes are considered acceptable but ANY ethnic stereotype of non-Europeans is considered taboo,
You know, I think that has something to do with a number of things. First, Europeans, throughout all history, have all managed to take a turn at being both the oppressor and the oppressee. As a result, they're generally more light-hearted about this sort of thing, because they know it doesn't really mean jack. I mean, take a walk through a Jules Verne book one of these days. Even the French aren't perfect for him, and he pretty much romps on every nationality.
But these other guys, Mexico being an exception (and Messcans are also generally of the European approach, I've never known a Messcan that took offense at being called a spic or a landscaper) haven't yet taken a turn as oppressor that they're willing to admit. Call yourself African American? Great, if you want to adopt African history as your own. Except that African history is generally much more brutal than European and/or American history.
But all this is part and parcel of the idea that racism is something exclusive to whites.
Man oh man. Just the idea that racism is exclusive to whites is racist. Sinfest has a thread going right now about the old "why can't I call black people nigga, they call each other that?" question. When I was down in Texas, I saw racism going back and forth all the time, black people hating white people and white people hating black people. Hell, the only people in Texas that don't seem to hate anybody are the no-green-card-carrying messcans that get sent back over the river when INS knocks on their door.
Racism is stupid, agreed. But this politically correct way of approaching the problem is doing more to prolong it than fight it. Of course, if I were a minority member (and everytime someone calls themself a Latino I call them countryman and point out that Latin comes from Rome, and being of Italian descent that makes me Latino. NObody likes that explanation, of course) I would do everything I could to try to prolong the problem, because in the meantime I get all these nice benefits just by being in a minority. I get to tell everyone how to talk (so as not to offend my minority sensibilities). I get to tell everyone how to act, or the DOJ investigates. I get to whine about how I'm not being paid what I'm worth because I'm in a minority and know that I'll get a raise to "shut me up".
Blah. If people really wanted to solve this problem, they would. Nobody really wants it solved. The racists want to keep hating, and the poor victims want to keep being victims for the preferential treatment it gets. The rest of us will eventually out-evolve them all, but it'll take some time before the problem finally goes away.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:Solly Cholly??? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 20:41 · Score: 1

Um, that's a direct quote from one of the Pink Panther movies, you hypersensitive idiot.
And in the Pink Panther movies, Kato really is a yellow-skinned fool, and Lt Clouseau is nothing but a bunch of shots taken at Frenchies. "He was holding, a Minkey." "Minkey? What is a Minkey? It's MONKEY YOU IDIOT!"
The Pink Panther rules, and so does Kato.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:Solly Cholly??? by swb · 2004-05-07 01:55 · Score: 1

Call yourself African American? Great, if you want to adopt African history as your own. Except that African history is generally much more brutal than European and/or American history.

Speaking of African Americans, a co-worker of my wife's is a white South African. I keep telling him he needs to make sure that his kids always check the boxes on their financial aid applications that indicate that they are African-American.

I'd just love to be able to participate in the debate on that one. When someone challenges their claim to being African American and explains that it's a racial distinction, I'd have to ask why they aren't referred to as Black Americans, since they're line back to Africa is a hell of a lot shorter than any so-called "African American".

As far as I'm concerned, the entire debate on race/racism got seriously mangled in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The emphasis on "Africa" (which is a continent, not a race, religion or nation), the special bennies for being "disenfranchised", the denial of non-white racism -- basically all the baggage tacked on (ironically) by a bunch of leftist white academics who were more interested in socialistic anti-establishment rhetoric than anything else.
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Audiovore · 2004-05-09 08:40 · Score: 1

Actually it does.

--
Without music, life would be a mistake. --- Nietzsche
Re:Solly Cholly??? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-13 18:09 · Score: 0

The gay niggers are already on the front page.

For those of you unware by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-05 23:07 · Score: 5, Informative

Of the Star Trek animated series, here is the IMBD entry

Re:For those of you unware by AnonymousKev · 2004-05-06 03:34 · Score: 2, Informative

Curt Danhauser has put together an excellent Animated Star Trek page. The man clearly has a passion for the series.
Check out the "Timeline" and "Episodes" sections.

--
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
(Finally got a dang account in 2004)

Oh come on.... by bludstone · 2004-05-05 23:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you dont like it, THEN DONT BUY IT.

Noone is holding a gun to your head, telling you to buy the new super-shiny version of the dvd. All that the studios are doing here is responding to CONSUMER DEMAND.

There are plenty of other evil things that these companies do. Harping on SE dvds simply isnt worthwhile.

This problem is solved very, very easily. Just. Dont. Buy. It.

--

no .sig

Re:Oh come on.... by radja · 2004-05-05 23:23 · Score: 1

just download it. downloading is still legal in many countries.

--

No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Re:Oh come on.... by 0x0000 · 2004-05-06 00:19 · Score: 5, Funny

> Noone is holding a gun to your head
In all fairness, we don't know that.

--
"The Internet is made of cats."
Re:Oh come on.... by RESPAWN · 2004-05-06 00:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Just. Dont. Buy. It.

For some reason, when I read those "sentences" I heard them in my head as coming from Shatner's voice. I really can't understand why...

--
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
Re:Oh come on.... by jazman · 2004-05-06 01:49 · Score: 1

Not really - I don't see them releasing a service pack containing the differences. If they were REALLY responding to consumer demand, which is really only for the extra stuff for those that already have the shows, then they would release a differences pack so that you only have to buy what you haven't already got.

However, you're right about JDBI. Unfortunately there will be enough gullible Trekkies out there to buy the whole lot over just to get the new bits. And there are people like me, who haven't got the old lot and would consider buying the new set now that it's (presumably) better VFM.
Re:Oh come on.... by Fireye · 2004-05-06 02:38 · Score: 1

Downloading is legal in only a few countries, actually. Those that didn't sign the Berne Convention.
Re:Oh come on.... by Sloppy · 2004-05-06 02:48 · Score: 1

The policy of Just Say No solves half of life's problems. PGP solves the other half. Life is easy.

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:Oh come on.... by SenorFluffyPants · 2004-05-06 02:52 · Score: 1

I think that would have been:

Just .... Don't .... Buy .... It ....

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Re:Oh come on.... by Mr.+Bad+Example · 2004-05-06 05:22 · Score: 4, Funny

> For some reason, when I read those "sentences" I heard them in my head as coming from Shatner's voice.

"You want how much for the box set? It's a con! A con, I tell you! COOOOOOOOOOOOOON!"
Re:Oh come on.... by RESPAWN · 2004-05-06 05:39 · Score: 2, Funny

See, that was good up until the last part. Then it just looks like you're shouting "koon" instead of "kahn." :-P

Now I'm getting visions of a bad B-Movie Horror flick about rabid killer racoons. I think I should go take my medicine now...

--
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
Re:Oh come on.... by radja · 2004-05-06 22:11 · Score: 1

here in the netherlands, downloading is legal. we have signed the berne convention. downloading is legally the same as hometaping, which is allowed.

--

No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587

TV by AliasTheRoot · 2004-05-05 23:21 · Score: 0

They cycle the various series constantly on TV, if you have a mind to collect them you can get 3-4 various episodes a day on video tape. Why the hell do you want to spend god knows how much on a DVD collection? if you wanted to keep it for posterity videotape the bloody things.

Re:TV by Detritus · 2004-05-05 23:48 · Score: 1

The problem with the episodes shown on TV is that they are usually edited to stuff in more commercials. Like commercial radio, the number of minutes devoted to advertising in an hour of TV has slowly grown over the years. That means that they have to hack out scenes to fit in the additional commercials.

--
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Re:TV by chegosaurus · 2004-05-06 00:30 · Score: 1

It would probably cost more for the videotape. Plus, it would take up about 100 times as much space, be hard to find the episode you want, be sucky quality compared to TV, have ad breaks, the beginning and/or then end chopped off, have the channel id in the corner of the screen, and single you out as being a tightwad of epic proportion. Apart from that though, it's a great idea.
Re:TV by STrinity · 2004-05-06 05:54 · Score: 1

They cycle the various series constantly on TV, if you have a mind to collect them you can get 3-4 various episodes a day on video tape. Why the hell do you want to spend god knows how much on a DVD collection?

Hmm, let's see ... no framke clipping, no cut scenes, no commercials, no bugs, and higher quality picture. Good enough for you?

--
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of

Re:Box sets have been availible for a while by Tarq666 · 2004-05-05 23:24 · Score: 2

Don't click the above link. Oh to have mod points right now. Typical AC behaviour.

Star Trek TOS by The+Grassy+Knoll · 2004-05-05 23:44 · Score: 1, Funny

"TOSS", it's spelt "TOSS"

.

--
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight

Re:Star Trek TOS by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 07:11 · Score: 0

I have never seen it referred to as TOSS. It is TOS(The Original Series)
Re:Star Trek TOS by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 19:52 · Score: 0

You stupid cnut, it's a joke

"Toss" in UK English means, basically, "crap"

Surely there is a god! by arcite · 2004-05-05 23:48 · Score: 1

and he must be vulcan! .... or ferengi.

Must ... buy ... DVD ... box set by l0ungeb0y · 2004-05-05 23:49 · Score: 1

OK, this is a must have.
All the episodes, nicely packaged and if current trends hold, should be reasonably priced.

Reading some of the other posters comments, it looks like there's some agony about re-releases of DVD's.
I've only been buying DVD's for three years now, but from day 1, I always held off for the SE/Box set. If you're big into a given movie or series you'll have less frustration, plus you usually get more bang for the buck. Sure, you have to wait, but when you pick up things like the Alien Quadrillogy (9 DVD Box set) or the Indiana Jones Trillogy for ~70$ US, you definitely see the advantages.

"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by The+Wicked+Priest · 2004-05-05 23:49 · Score: 4, Informative

He took "The Soft Weapon" and rewrote it with Trek characters. But he couldn't even be bothered to change the Kzinti to Klingons, which would've been the logical mapping from Known Space to Trek. Frankly, I think it's disgraceful that he took money for this hack job (and I say that as a big Niven fan).

I actually argued about this with someone online once. He brought up Kzinti in a Trek context, based on that episode. I said they had no place in the Trek universe. But he insisted that since it was in TAS, it was canon.

OK, call me a fanboy, but this isn't a troll. I'm glad to see somebody else remembers this, anyway.

--
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 00:18 · Score: 0

They're also in various of the games, and they've shown up in several of the commercial books. They're not "canon", but neither are the "Horta as helmsman" stories with Ensign Naraht, referred to by the Romulans as "Ensign Rock", by Diane Duane, and those were absolutely wonderful.

The Kzin make the *Klingons* look loke girly-girl barbarians....
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by AndroidCat · 2004-05-06 00:21 · Score: 1

Maybe he was too busy working on Land of the Lost? :^) (That show had quite an array of writers but ad-hoc changes were common.)

--
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by SharpNose · 2004-05-06 00:59 · Score: 1

Actually, neither one of you were quite right. It's my understanding that the entire TAS is *not* canon. The ST universe as it now stands does not have Kzinti or an M'ress or an Arex.

While I'm on the subject, for those who haven't seen TAS before: TAS shows its very low budget - lots of reused scenes (Kirk sitting in captain's chair with lips moving; close up of a character's eye while speaking; Kirk breaking into a run toward POV), same music over and over again, Nichols and Doohan doing innumerable extra voices. However, what you *do* get are the original actors doing voices - which, IMO, makes a HUGE difference and was worth every penny - and the writing. Since TOS had been gone for some time, there was apparently ample opportunity for some people to come up with some solid story work and, as someone else here has said, not being limited visually in the animation genre, some really "spacey" ideas were implemented. Some TOS episodes got what were in effect sequels, including the returns of characters like Cyrano Jones and Harry Mudd (both voiced by the original actors).

If you ever get to see some TAS episodes, consider how "heavy" they would have appeared next to other Saturday morning cartoon/live-action shows of the time!
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by DavidBrown · 2004-05-06 02:34 · Score: 1

He took "The Soft Weapon" and rewrote it with Trek characters. But he couldn't even be bothered to change the Kzinti to Klingons, which would've been the logical mapping from Known Space to Trek. Frankly, I think it's disgraceful that he took money for this hack job (and I say that as a big Niven fan).

I actually argued about this with someone online once. He brought up Kzinti in a Trek context, based on that episode. I said they had no place in the Trek universe. But he insisted that since it was in TAS, it was canon.

OK, call me a fanboy, but this isn't a troll. I'm glad to see somebody else remembers this, anyway.

What really ticked me off about this wasn't that the kzinti were thrown into the Star Trek universe, it was because they were pussies, drawn as small whiny kittens rather than the really large, really carnivious creatures they were written as. They were even drawn as hunching over and looking more like slaves than the kzinti we have grown to know and fear.

Real kzin wouldn't have even talked to the away team - Kirk and Spock and Co. would have been torn to bits right off the bat - at least Crewman Jones would have gotten his head bitten off. OK, that's a cartoon, and you can't do that. But at least the kzinti should have been drawn as being REALLY big in comparison with humans and vulcans.

--
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by Sloppy · 2004-05-06 02:51 · Score: 1

I actually argued about this with someone online once.
People have arguments about Star Trek on the internet? Now I've heard of everything!

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by Unknown+Kadath · 2004-05-06 03:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

I owned a bunch of Star Trek paperbacks during my impressionable middle school years. They got packed away, and when I was moving out of my parents' house after college, I went back through the collection. Turns out (shock!) that most Star Trek novels are unspeakably bad...but the Diane Duane Vulcan/Romulan books are really, really good. Those are the only ones I still have on my shelf, and really deserve to be canon. (Well, I still have one about talking cat people who are most definitely not Kzin, but only because it's autographed by Nichelle Nichols.)

TAS is so laughably atrocious that it depresses me anyone even bothers to argue about it being "canon."

-Carolyn

--
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by Deagol · 2004-05-06 03:15 · Score: 1

Dude, I loved that show! Cheesy, yes, but cool for me as a kid.

--
Method of processing duck feet
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 04:58 · Score: 0

I went back through the collection. Turns out (shock!) that most Star Trek novels are unspeakably bad...

From the one or two that I read, they were typically more of "romance" novels for the trekkies then real sci-fi. (Way too many pages spent on Kirk or, shock!, Spock getting some T&A.)
Re:"Mingled concepts"? Worse than that by steveha · 2004-05-06 06:53 · Score: 1

He took "The Soft Weapon" and rewrote it with Trek characters.

Yes.

But he couldn't even be bothered to change the Kzinti to Klingons, which would've been the logical mapping from Known Space to Trek.

I'm sure he wanted to leave a bit of his own stamp on Trek. He invented Kzinti, and now they are sort of part of Trek. (When my friends and I played a Trek role-playing game in the late 70's, Kzinti were common in our games.)

I've never seen "The Slaver Weapon" episode of TAS, but I did read "The Soft Weapon" short story. One plot point was that the Kzinti didn't adequately guard a female character because Kzinti females aren't sentient. Did he apply this plot point to the episode, and have Uhura able to make an escape at a critical moment? If so, that's another reason why he wouldn't have used Klingons.

steveha

--
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely

My idea... by billmaly · 2004-05-05 23:57 · Score: 1

Once the last dollar has been sucked out of the ST enterprise (HAR!) and they decide to stop making new shoes....make the uberboxset of ST. The original series, the movies, TNG, DS9, Voyager, the whold schmeer, kit and caboodle. If it's been filmed, drawn, animated, videoed, if it's been part of the ST universe, slap that sucker onto a whole stack of DVD's, put it all in one gimungous box and sell that sucka as the whole frickin' Star Trek experience...all in one giant shot.

Call Carl in Marketing.....we've got a live one here!!!!

Re:My idea... by billmaly · 2004-05-06 00:01 · Score: 1

Er...I mean shows...not shoes...damn fat fingers!
Re:My idea... by pomakis · 2004-05-06 01:40 · Score: 1

Er...I mean shows...not shoes...damn fat fingers!

Aw, I just thought you were being clever by using the word shoes in a "no new characters whose shoes must be filled" context. I guess that seems like a silly interpretation now, but it never ceases to amaze me how the mind manages to weave sense into things.
Re:My idea... by 1u3hr · 2004-05-06 02:29 · Score: 1

Er...I mean shows...not shoes...damn fat fingers!
I just thought you were channelling Ed Sullivan.

It's about time by thpdg · 2004-05-06 00:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

Finally, an affordable release of TOS. The original release was paired episodes on DVD for about $30. That is a very high price point. Coming from a monthly by-mail subscription, it was a good deal, but these box sets should bring it down even further.
I have the $700 tied up in the TNG sets ($100 * 7 years) and I never regret it. It's a complete collection, that no one can ever take away. Paired up with the "Companion" CD containing all of the TV commercial spots, it is the complete TNG series.

--

-Patrick

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

Re:It's about time by Kelson · 2004-05-06 08:48 · Score: 1

Agreed. At $15/episode it wasn't worth buying unless you only wanted to get highlights. Assuming it's $80-100/season (and you know there will be discounts - I got all of Babylon 5 for $60/season or less instead of the $100 list price just by shopping around a bit) I might actually pick this one up.

MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 00:06 · Score: 0

Aparently some Trekkies need to be reminded of free market principles: If it's too expensive, DON'T BUY IT!

Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by Sancho · 2004-05-06 00:07 · Score: 0, Redundant

Since it's BOUND to be edited for the racist remark....
Hey, I don't agree with the racism, but I like archival, too. What a quandry.

Star Trek TOS DVD Box Sets Forthcoming

Posted by simoniker on Thursday May 06, @06:36AM
from the shatner's-bassoon dept.
bluethundr writes "According to Trek Today: the diabolical Trek 'powers that be' have come up with yet another way to separate the hapless trekkie from his hard earned cash. The Original Series is being re-released as a Box Set. Reportedly, the sets should feature enough extras to make (they hope) the die-hard pony-up against their better judgement. They have an image of the box set on the R2 Project. One interesting aspect of this release is that the Region 2 release will package all original season eps in order of original air-date! One also has to wonder why in the world they are still refusing to offer the The Animated Series on DVD, forcing one to buy the bootlegs if you want to get your hands on a copy. Solly cholly. VHS only, as far as official release goes. TAS featured most of the original cast, many of the original writers. What's more, is that one episode was penned by another author you may have heard of in which he mingled concepts of his own distinct mythology with that of trek-lore."

Re:Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by skermit · 2004-05-06 00:10 · Score: 0

I emailed the editors to change the headline WITH EDIT. I don't ever believe in the deletion of comments and/or opinions, just clarifications.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by jeff13 · 2004-05-06 00:15 · Score: 0

Well I'm not surprised by a racist Trekker. Have you seen Enterprise? It's one of the most racist shows on TV. So when I see 'Solly cholly' I can't but think this is normal for unthinking geeks with no idea.
Re:Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by Sancho · 2004-05-06 00:18 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Hopefully they will edit and post an apology, but I've seen such things flat out removed before...simply as though they hadn't happened at all.
Re:Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by skermit · 2004-05-06 00:23 · Score: 1

I don't know about going that far... if anything I'd say the exact opposite. Star Trek has always been about mixing of cultures and races and species (!) intermingling and finding a peaceful co-existence.

--
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
Re:Original text of the /. headline, for posterity by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-10 05:50 · Score: 0

I meta-modded your "redundant" down mod unfair. I didn't see anything redundant about it.

Ah the cartoon I never knew... by arcite · 2004-05-06 00:08 · Score: 1

I stumbled upon afew of those animated eps. about year ago on um... kazza. Wow, they are pretty cool! Granted the plots are grossly condenced, but they do things in the cartoon that they could never have imagined to do in live action...at the time. I kind of see this series as a prelude to greater things. ie. TNG. Perhaps the best thing about the short lived series was that all the original cast voices were used for the characters. Spock can kick logical ass in any medium it seems.

TAS was published on LD by Zobeid · 2004-05-06 00:08 · Score: 2, Informative

The animated Star Trek series was published as a boxed set of six laserdiscs. "The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek", LV 60754-6, from Paramount Home Video.

Yes, I have the discs. No, I don't have a working LD player at the moment. Is anybody even making new ones anymore?

The distinction of the animated series that amuses me most is the appearance in six episodes of Lieutenant M'Ress serving as the communications officer.

Animated STAR TREK - Lt. M'Ress

A Google search will show that M'Ress is remembered surprisingly well among fans, for such an obscure character after such a long time passed without ever being seen again.

Re:TAS was published on LD by ElaborateCalculator · 2004-05-06 00:42 · Score: 1

M'Ress is remembered surprisingly well among fans

...and authors as well. Peter David has used her, and the security chief (Arex?) as well, in later New Frontier novels.
IIRC correctly, the pair turned up in one of the novels in the Gateways crossover

--
--darren
Re:TAS was published on LD by PXE+Geek · 2004-05-06 14:04 · Score: 1

The Pioneer DVL919 is spendy, but a very nice machine (it plays DVDs too), and still available. I have two of the previous generation DVL909s... Amazon link

It's a cheat by jeff13 · 2004-05-06 00:11 · Score: 1

Look...
Paramount has been pushing out horrible DVDs of all the Trek movies. The 'directors cut' of the original movie with new FX? CRAP! So bad the director will not comment on it. A revamping of Trek 5? No says Paramount, tell Shatner to shut up. etc.

All the while, a perfectly good and far cheaper set of TOS (TOS means "The Original Show") DVDs have been around. Remastered with all scenes restored. A fantastic collectors item. Well, can't let people have a good thing! E Gads! SO I bet these will be lost from shelves just like everything else. Since these were a good deal I guess I had to be punished? Sheesh! What am I? A mench? ;p

Seems Paramount needs to make money somehow since all thier new Star Trek is nothing more than the worst crap on TV.

Message to Paramount and the rest of the so called 'entertainment complex'. You have cheated me for far too long. Now, I have a Net connection and I intend to use it.

Buy FIRELY DVDS! WooooHooooooooooo!!! :D

Re:It's a cheat by cerebralsugar · 2004-05-06 03:29 · Score: 1

Actually, the director of the original Star Trek: The Motion Picture, was Robert Wise, and he was quite involved in the new FX for TMP. He also most definetly has a comment track, as does Doug Trubull it's actually a cool DVD even though I hadn't cared much for the original movie.

It does suck they wouldn't let shatner fix things up for the Final Frontier, but while I think the movie was a good try (he did add a lot of interesting elements not seen before in Star Trek movies), but I think it was a lot more 'broken' and would have needed a lot more work than the odd matte shot and one FX shot of the enterprise that was fixed in TMP). The new ending of TMP seemed odd to me though.

--
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!
Re:It's a cheat by jeff13 · 2004-05-06 03:47 · Score: 1

^^^ I'm not so sure. Robert Wise was GREATLY disappointed by the DVDs AFTER he finally saw them according to some. Of course, I could be wrong. However, considering the horrible quality of the 'new' ST: Motion Picture I would stand by my assessment. And I could go on and on about the current crop of 'Box Set" DVDs as they are terrible, expensive, and full of crap FX (my "fav" was where they took out a lovely matte painting in favour of a crappy CGI shot of San Francisco... just rubbish). You seem to see the wrongs I saw too. So why are 'collectors items' so poorly done? Because they aren't. So don't buy them. :)
Re:It's a cheat by Accipiter · 2004-05-06 04:44 · Score: 1

(TOS means "The Original Show")

Actually, it's accepted to mean "The Original Series."

--
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't. :P)
Re:It's a cheat by cerebralsugar · 2004-05-06 09:41 · Score: 1

You may be right, but in that case Robert Wise is pretty two faced because at the end of the commentary track on TMP he says how happy he is now with the movie, and how it set the look and feel of the next 5 movies and so many elements became part of the TV series.

--
Easy guys, I put my pants on one leg at a time. The difference is after I put on my pants I make gold records!

Or Chekov, or Scotty... by Wacky_Wookie · 2004-05-06 00:16 · Score: 5, Funny

Chekov:
"In sis seen I vas mota-waited by the large wessel looming..."

Scotty:
"..but we could'na finnish the seen, as we just did'na have the film!"

All the cheap ones do it by don.g · 2004-05-06 00:17 · Score: 1

Our NZ$130 (~US$75) DVD player plays my NTSC Region 1 DVDs on our obstensibly PAL TV. I imagine that it's cheaper to make a DVD player that just works in all markets than having seperate NTSC and PAL versions. Besides, most newish TVs seem happy to sync to either PAL or NTSC signals :-)

--
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.

Slightly OT but another cool box set just released by transporter · 2004-05-06 00:18 · Score: 0, Offtopic

is Kung Fu The Complete First Season. I ordered mine and got it in yesterday, watching the orginal 90 minute pilot last night. For 30.00, shipping and all, it was worth it.

Also, I don't have a link for it, but there is a petition to get the Duckman series on DVD (you probably find it with a google in a couple of mintutes). I signed it and look forward to it coming out on DVD...

Transporter

--
I'm going to be wearing a hockey mask when I go off on everyone...

That's some funky packaging! by Maestro4k · 2004-05-06 00:25 · Score: 1

I'm surprised no one else has commented on it so far, overlooking the color it appears to be quite rounded and I have to wonder if it'll stay sitting up nicely on a shelf without other DVDs/Boxsets around it to keep it upright. I'm glad they're giving us a boxset release finally, but I wish the studios would think about things like this as well.

So what do you want, anyways? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 00:27 · Score: 1, Insightful

You're complaining that the studio comes out with a series of better and better releases.
Lots of other slashdotters complain when a record company or a movie company releases the *same* content in a new medium ("they want us to pay for the same album all over again!").
And if the media company doesn't put out anything at all, then people bitch that they're hoarding "our culture" in the vaults.
So what do you really want, anyways?

The Kzin by Syberghost · 2004-05-06 00:45 · Score: 1

What's more, is that one episode was penned by another author you may have heard of in which he mingled concepts of his own distinct mythology with that of trek-lore. ...and which is generally regarded by fans of both series as a horrible idea.

I suppose a few gamers in Austin think it was a pretty good idea, but that's about it.

Weren't there problems with "Mudd"? by Theovon · 2004-05-06 00:49 · Score: 1

One day, in a book store, I found a multi-volume set of TOS scripts. "YAY!", I thought. My favorite Episode is "I, Mudd", and I wanted to read the script. Just my luck, the two episodes they left out were "I, Mudd" and "Mudd's Women". Some sort of copyright problem.

I hope this doesn't suffer from the same problem.

Re:Weren't there problems with "Mudd"? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 01:35 · Score: 0

James Blish had planned to publish the Mudd episodes along with an additional Mudd story in its own book. He died before it was finished. His life partner, J. A. Lawrence, finished it up and published it. The link is here.
Re:Weren't there problems with "Mudd"? by Theovon · 2004-05-06 02:19 · Score: 1

Thanks! I just ordered it.
Re:Weren't there problems with "Mudd"? by codefool · 2004-05-06 02:29 · Score: 1

Lawrence, did publish the two TOS Mudd episodes in (the badly named) 'Mudd's Angels' (since it came about during the Charlie's Angels hype.) That link is here.

--
"Stop whining!" - Arnold, as Mr. Kimble

Not just for the money... by Masem · 2004-05-06 00:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think it's not because they want to get more money (well, not as the ultimate motive) but that with the success of TNG, DS9, and currently Voyager box sets, as well as practically every other TV series out there, that their first release of the TOS series as several 2-episde DVD titles was basically a failure. The very very casual fan may want one episode, so that makes sense, but realistically, any trekkie is going to want to buy at worst their favorite season, much less the entire package. Additionally, I'd think that having boxed season sets is more appealing to the electronics store (less shelf space) than the individual DVD versions This is also what happened with Farscape - came out in originally 2-episode DVDs, but ADV films is getting wise and working towards season box sets. And if that's not enough, the X-Files (probably the other big series to be on DVD when DVD first started) is going to be reprinted in DVD in a new special edition series sets, as most of the original sets are long sold out.

--
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:

Re:Not just for the money... by SuiteSisterMary · 2004-05-06 03:38 · Score: 1

TOS was one of the first TV series released onto DVD, and they followed the VHS model. Better models have no evolved, so they're using the better model.

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.

Not technically a re-release... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 01:04 · Score: 0

...because TOS has never been available on R2 DVD, either in a boxset or two-eps-per-disc format.

A question for TOS fans by Raul654 · 2004-05-06 01:05 · Score: 1

I remember seeing buried deep a Star Trek compendium that there was an episode called 'Twilight Zone' that was yanked from syndication due to anti-Japanese sentiments expressed in the episode. However, I've never been able to find confirmation of this anywhere else. Is it true?

--

To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton

Re:A question for TOS fans by -kertrats- · 2004-05-06 01:27 · Score: 1

A short answer: No.

--
The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
Re:A question for TOS fans by pomakis · 2004-05-06 01:48 · Score: 1

I remember seeing buried deep a Star Trek compendium that there was an episode called 'Twilight Zone' that was yanked from syndication due to anti-Japanese sentiments expressed in the episode. However, I've never been able to find confirmation of this anywhere else. Is it true?

I used to be quite a knowledgeable Trek fan, and I've never heard of such an episode. Perhaps such an episode made it as far as a script, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't filmed. (But IANLAKTF, so I could be wrong.)
Re:A question for TOS fans by Verminator · 2004-05-06 02:48 · Score: 1

I believe you may be referring to a Twilight Zone episode (#151) called "The Encounter."
From the DVD box blurb:
"Fenton, a WWII veteran, proudly shows his captured samurai sword to Arthur Takamuri, a young Japanese/American gardener - who picks it up and instantly knows he must kill his host!"
This episode aired once on the CBS on May 1, 1964, and was never syndicated or rebroadcast due to the ensuing controversy.
The episode starred Neville Brand as Fenton and George Takei as Takamuri. Good stuff.

--
"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
Re:A question for TOS fans by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 05:58 · Score: 0

It's available on DVD in the "more Treasures of the Twilight Zone" disc.

Thought this was a new operating system... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 01:06 · Score: 0

Star Trek the Operating System!

Space Balls the Toilet Paper!

Re:Thought this was a new operating system... by greenius · 2004-05-06 03:34 · Score: 1

The operating system in the Atari ST was known as TOS (Tramiel Operating system). Although this link says it was The Operating System

--
I copied this sig from someone else (but where did they get it from?)

Yes, and well... no. by Kjella · 2004-05-06 01:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

Maybe this'll be a better value, so... not as much ripping off of trekkies.

Actually, it's maximization of profit. First you take out the über-trekkies that'll pay almost anything, then the "normal" trekkies in box sets, then slowly slide price down. If you look at a normal price-demand curve, they're trying to grab it all.

The only thing they have to do is to draw it out enough that you can't "afford" to wait for the cheaper version or price cut - that "Star Trek now > Star Trek later + X$", for your personal utility function.

Companies can afford to be "time-indifferent". If they can sell you Star Trek exactly once - they don't care if it's today or in 5 years, as long as you pay the same in realdollars (compensated for inflation).

So yes... this is better value, because they've already sold it to all those willing to pay more. If by "rip you off" you mean "maximize profit", well they're still doing that.

This isn't just DVDs. CDs, computers, cars, cell phones, everything probably including the kitchen sink, if you want it the moment it becomes available, you're going to pay a premium.

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:Yes, and well... no. by 1u3hr · 2004-05-06 01:43 · Score: 1

Actually, it's maximization of profit. First you take out the über-trekkies that'll pay almost anything, then the "normal" trekkies in box sets, then slowly slide price down. If you look at a normal price-demand curve, they're trying to grab it all.
In China now you can buy DVD box sets of such things as MASH, 24, Alias, The Sopranos, Babylon 5, Buffie... all at $10-15 per season. They look legit, though you can never be sure. Lacking some extras, but otherwsie they play perfectly. I'll look out for TOS next trip. I notice some people selling them on Ebay for a good markup, but they're still 80% cheaper than US editions.
Re:Yes, and well... no. by Megane · 2004-05-06 02:11 · Score: 1

all at $10-15 per season. They look legit
Then you're blind. The price alone should be enough to tip you off. Also, don't be fooled by a cheap holofoil sticker. The Chinese bootleggers love to put those on to make their stuff look more official.

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Yes, and well... no. by 1u3hr · 2004-05-06 02:27 · Score: 1

>all at $10-15 per season. They look legit
Then you're blind. The price alone should be enough to tip you off. Also, don't be fooled by a cheap holofoil sticker. The Chinese bootleggers love to put those on to make their stuff look more official.
I live in Hong Kong, I think I have a clue about this. DVDs, real licensed ones, are much cheaper there. So is a lot of other stuff. Basically, the production cost is a few dollars for the disks and a cardboard box. The retail is whatever the market will bear. I'm not talking about copies of Photoshop for $1 on a CDR in a paper envelope. These DVDs have good art and the text isn't the gibberish that bootlegs usually have, and other fetures that lead me to believe they're actually licensed.
Re:Yes, and well... no. by blincoln · 2004-05-06 05:52 · Score: 1

These DVDs have good art and the text isn't the gibberish that bootlegs usually have, and other fetures that lead me to believe they're actually licensed.

I've seen plenty of bootleg DVDs that fit this description. I actually ended up with a set of three (God of Gamblers, God of Gamblers Return, and God of Gamblers 3). I'm not sure that even the importer I bought them from knew they were illicit. They're real DVDs with real cover art, menus, and so on.

Whoever bootlegged the DVDs you saw probably just duplicated the content of the legitimate releases, which is why it looks better than a normal bootleg.

My GoG DVDs were ripped from the laserdisc versions, for example.

--
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Re:Yes, and well... no. by 1u3hr · 2004-05-06 06:15 · Score: 1

Whoever bootlegged the DVDs you saw probably just duplicated the content of the legitimate releases, which is why it looks better than a normal bootleg.
Unless the "legitimate" HBO releases had Chinese descriptions on the boxes and subtitles on the disks, I don't think so. Why do you find it so hard to imagine that there are legitimate DVDs made and sold in China? Of course the ones you see in the US are bootlegs, they're not allowed to distribute the legal Chinese ones outside their markets, which is why they can be so cheap here. My GoG DVDs were ripped from the laserdisc versions, for example.
The DVDs I'm talking about have full menus, commentary tracks, various subtitles. I don't think LDs have these features. The bootlegs are about US$1, and variable in quality.
Re:Yes, and well... no. by Uber+Banker · 2004-05-06 08:39 · Score: 1

You're talking out your ass. DVDs in China and Russia are usually cheaper than those in Canada and Japan (for example). Fact. Like the parent post said, the companies will try to profit maximise. The (opportunity) cost of a guy going to China to get his legit cheaper copies is small compared to the extra revenue and marginal profit cheaper copies get in target markets. As an even earlier post said, the companies will also use time to their advantage - most expensive on immediate release to get the avid fans, then a bit cheaper to get regular fans, then cheaper to get less diehard fans, etc. In HK, for example, the latest DVDs cost around US$10, then drop to US$7 after a couple of months, then drop to US$5 after a couple more months, then cost US$3 on _legit_ VCD, the bootleggers are still cheaper at about US$1.5 per DVD or VCD pair, and sooner with the cheap price, but dropping price and choosing price for the location and time after release makes a lot of sence. What they lose from 'leakage' is small, and remember if you buy a (legit) cheap DVD abroad you may still have to declare it on reentry to your home country.
Re:Yes, and well... no. by blincoln · 2004-05-06 11:22 · Score: 1

Unless the "legitimate" HBO releases had Chinese descriptions on the boxes and subtitles on the disks, I don't think so.

That would be easy enough to translate.

Why do you find it so hard to imagine that there are legitimate DVDs made and sold in China?

I'm sure there are, just not a season's worth of TV episodes for $15, no matter what the quality of the packaging is.

Have you seen the bootleg Star Wars DVDs? The only way you can tell they're bootlegs is because there won't be a legitimate release of them until the fall.

The DVDs I'm talking about have full menus, commentary tracks, various subtitles. I don't think LDs have these features. The bootlegs are about US$1, and variable in quality.

Actually, my GoG DVDs have all those features, minus the commentary. I'm sure that even if there were a legit release there would be no commentary anyway, they were never blockbuster films.

The bootleg Star Wars DVDs have all those features. The bootleg Wonderful Days DVD I almost bought on eBay (until I found an importer of the legit 2 disc version from Korea) had all those features.

--
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Re:Yes, and well... no. by 1u3hr · 2004-05-07 01:24 · Score: 1

Why do you find it so hard to imagine that there are legitimate DVDs made and sold in China?
I'm sure there are, just not a season's worth of TV episodes for $15, no matter what the quality of the packaging is.
OK, I hate to be rude, but I live in China, I have these DVDs in front of me, and you don't. I think I'm in a better position to be "sure" than you. The whole world does not have a single set price, especially not things where the cost of manufacture is negligible.
Re:Yes, and well... no. by ejasons · 2004-05-10 05:19 · Score: 1

OK, I hate to be rude, but I live in China, I have these DVDs in front of me, and you don't. I think I'm in a better position to be "sure" than you. The whole world does not have a single set price, especially not things where the cost of manufacture is negligible.

Actually, a good way to tell, that I've found, is that, if the disks are region-encoded, they're legit. If they're region-free, they're bootlegs.

My ex-girlfriend is from China, and she bought a bunch when she was last over there. When she got back, it was somewhat ironic that she could play the illegal discs, but not the legal ones! (At least, until I bought her a player with "loopholes"...)
Re:Yes, and well... no. by 1u3hr · 2004-05-10 14:42 · Score: 1

Actually, a good way to tell, that I've found, is that, if the disks are region-encoded, they're legit.
Since of course all the DVD players here are also region agnostic, I can't tell that.

Mistake in article description by You+Been+Rob-ed! · 2004-05-06 01:30 · Score: 5, Funny

...separate the hapless trekkie from his hard earned cash.

Shouldn't that be from his parents' hard earned cash?

--
For fun, calculate how much DDT would be lethal for you!

Its about friggin' time! by Lodragandraoidh · 2004-05-06 01:53 · Score: 1

The money is squirreled away for just such an opportunity...

Everyone knows the best Star Trek was the original. All the touchy-feely PC Star Trek shows that followed were a mere shadow of the original.

--

Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain

I must be the only person happy to see this by chuckgrosvenor · 2004-05-06 01:57 · Score: 1

I'm guessing people don't realize the original series was released at a much, much higher cost. Two episodes per disc (in normal size cases), at $20 a a disc. That's around $450 for the three original seasons, or $150 a season. In comparison, ST:TNG was $100 a season (less if you found them used, I bought mine at BJs for $90, and even got a $25 rebate for buying the last three seasons). I'll happily buy these as sets, even at $100 or $90 a set. I'm not concerned with a subsequent set coming out, because the extras aren't why I buy the sets, I buy them for the unedited, no commercial break, versions of the show. Even with a DVR, I still can't watch them how I would want to.

It's amazing how much people whine about price gouging. If you don't like the cost, rent it with netflix. If you want to own them, but don't want to pay for it, STEAL it off the Net. It might not be as cheap as some other season sets, but that's because they know they can get more. Good for them. People don't NEED these sets, they WANT them.

--
ChuckyG

Re:I must be the only person happy to see this by Zed2K · 2004-05-06 02:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

The star trek box sets are SO overpriced its not even funny anymore. Look at other popular tv box sets for comparisons and they are much cheaper. CSI $60, Friends $55 for season 1, $35 for other seasons, Angel $45, Buffy $45, West Wing $45. But DS9 $97, TNG $97-$111. For the same number of episodes as other tv shows.

I would love to get all the TNG and DS9 box sets but not at $100 or higher a box. Paramount is gouging star trek fans because they know they can get away with it. Its a big slap in the face to star trek fans but they are to stupid to realize it.
Re:I must be the only person happy to see this by das_katz_socrates · 2004-05-06 04:59 · Score: 1

it's not just Star Trek thats priced this way, most Sci-Fi series when sold on dvd are around the $100 a season price.

--
This sig has no nutritional value...
Re:I must be the only person happy to see this by Lord+Ender · 2004-05-06 05:14 · Score: 1

Perhaps it is because startrek fans make more money on average than the people who watch that other junk?

--
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Re:I must be the only person happy to see this by silicon+not+in+the+v · 2004-05-06 05:16 · Score: 1

I didn't like any of the other Star Trek series nearly as much as TOS. Enterprise is the only one I've found that seems to act similar to that one, so I like it pretty well. I may actually buy those, but I'll probably wait to see if I can get it cheaper on Amazon or Ebay after they've been out for a while.

--
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
Re:I must be the only person happy to see this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 13:28 · Score: 0

Yes, yes... Buy them, download them, rent them... there are many options available.
Fortunately, I won't need to worry about Star Trek gouging me for DVDs any more because I was really only a fan of TNG and now I have Borg Megacube #966.
Really no substance to this post, I just wanted to express my joy of owning the cube. Someone gave it to me as a graduation present a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't gotten out of the joyful gloating stage yet.

Arex by brownpau · 2004-05-06 01:58 · Score: 2, Informative

That was the three-armed, three-legged Lt. Arex. He came up in the ST comics a lot, too, where he filled the Navigator position (since Chekov was Tactical chief).

I'm still waiting for... by vudufixit · 2004-05-06 02:06 · Score: 1

ST: TOS - Terms of Service!

VHHHHHHHHS!!!! by Himring · 2004-05-06 02:10 · Score: 2, Funny

One also has to wonder why in the world they are still refusing to offer the The Animated Series on DVD, forcing one to buy the bootlegs if you want to get your hands on a copy. Solly cholly. VHS only

"I've done more than not release you. I've released you on VHS only. And I wish to go on...releasing you on VHS...." -- Khannnnnnn!!!

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"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill

Different die-hard solution by jdavidb · 2004-05-06 02:16 · Score: 1

My wife and I just bought a Pioneer Tivo/DVD Recorder combo box. We are going to be using this to collect all four of the Trek series and making DVD sets. We'll probably be giving family members season sets of shows they love for Christmas and birthday presents in another year or so.

Actually, when we got married, my wife brought her complete set of TOS on VHS tape; we may simply run that through the recorder to make DVDs instead of waiting to catch them all off of satellite.

True, recordings off of television will probably lack some of the quality we'd have gotten if we bought the boxed set, but we don't mind, and since I was living with broadcast TV only until we got married, I think the satellite quality we're getting is spectactular.

--
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.

Re:Different die-hard solution by Sapwatso · 2004-05-06 08:29 · Score: 1

They may lack more than quality -

If you are going to record them off of satellite, be careful you are getting the full episodes. I've noticed some dropped scenes in almost every episode I've watched in syndication in the last few years. Though I don't have satellite so maybe you have some channels that are better behaved about that.
Re:Different die-hard solution by jdavidb · 2004-05-07 04:05 · Score: 1

Actually I trust the ones on satellite somewhat more, though I'm sure that kind of thing does happen. My wife's VHS collection of Classic Trek was recorded in a 78-hour marathon off of the sci-fi channel a few years ago, when they first obtained the rights to broadcast and created what they called, "Star Trek: Special Edition." Each episode supposedly has restored scenes in addition to commentary from cast members during commercial breaks. I'm reasonably confident that sci-fi channel is airing complete episodes (possibly more than complete, if they truly are restoring scenes), though I'm not sure if I trust "Spike TV" to be airing complete TNG episodes.

But again, 95% of the episode at 90% quality is probably fine for us. Maybe I'm not a true "die hard" fan after all. I'd make a case that we saved money, but that DVDR Tivo cost $600 more than a regular Tivo. OTOH, we have the ability to do this for as many shows as we want. (And I'm a big TV fan. Currently starting a Smallville DVD collection to complement my VHS collection of the first two seasons.)

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Secession is the right of all sentient beings.

Price Watch by IPFreely · 2004-05-06 02:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Even in box sets, Star trek is a bit much for me. I wanted Deep Space Nine, but it was $113 per season for Deep Space Nine and TNG and $90 for Voyager. TOS will likely be in that range as well.

Babylon 5 is running $70 to $80 a season. That's a bit iffy. I already have the complete Bab5 on tape, recorded from broadcast TV. I'm not sure I want to go the extra mile for DVD, especially since I haven't watched much of it since I taped it.

I did end up buying all of the Stargate-SG1 seasons. They were only about $49 per season, and worth it at the time.

Star Trek is too proud of their stuff for me.

--
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.

Re:Price Watch by AJWM · 2004-05-06 04:37 · Score: 1

Not only that, but Stargate SG1 was and is originally filmed in wide-screen, and transferred to DVD that way (16x9) so you get even more for your money.

In general I'm reluctant to spend more than about $10/disc for a TV series boxed set, and not much more than that for a movie series (eg James Bond can be had for about $13-$15/disc.)

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-- Alastair
Re:Price Watch by JudgeFurious · 2004-05-06 07:10 · Score: 1

Well said. Star Trek stuff is insanely priced. I'd love to buy it all but I'm not giving them more than $50 or so bucks a season under any circumstances.

My wife and I buy a lot of DVD's including movies, television series, and anime. A lot of it is science fiction oriented and we never balk at forking over some cash to get a movie or series we really loved so you would think we'd be right in that target audience but we're not.

Apparently they're focusing on the DVD buying, SciFi loving, Money-is-no-object subset of our crowd.

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Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Re:Price Watch by zors · 2004-05-06 08:04 · Score: 1

Plus you could buy individual DVDs for 10 bucks with 3 to 5 episodes on them, that way you could get just what you wanted, or buy em as you could afford them. Its the only sci-fi dvd set i have for just that reason.

Laserdisc by Megane · 2004-05-06 02:18 · Score: 1

I can gloat because I have the animated series on laserdisc. Of course this is a typical Paramount laserdisc release, and Paramount considered little things like a CD-Audio TOC and chapter stops to be unnecessary extra features. So to see the second episode on a side, I have to seek to 22:30 and fast forward from there.

I'm glad they finally came out with the all SE TOS movies box. I can't imagine what people who bought the halfway boxes (with only 1-5 SE verisons) were thinking. I'm also glad I never went out of my way to finish the TOS DVD set. Already having half of the laserdiscs for TOS helped me wait.

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#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }

I'm fucking fed up - but with you by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 02:18 · Score: 0

Or maybe, just maybe, these people who are doing the selling are just people with thoughts, feelings, and desires just like you, excepting the fact that they also have a fucking clue as to how to do business. If you think something is a rip-off, don't buy it, and then the rip-off doesn't hurt at all.

And this whole superiority complex, calling anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion "sheep," really needs to fucking stop. It gets so old reading this kind of naked, unjustified intolerance. You are not any better than someone that buys a DVD box set, regardless of how sure you are about it.

Shat says... by Zod+the+Merciless · 2004-05-06 02:27 · Score: 1

Make it so!

CONFUSION ALERT by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 02:27 · Score: 0

There was a twilight zone episode with William Shatner in it that was yanked from syndication because it dealt with anti-Japanese themes. It has no relation to star trek.

Re:CONFUSION ALERT by einstein · 2004-05-06 03:36 · Score: 1

the Shatner Twilight episode airs all the time, and has no anti-Japanese themes. You're thinking of the George Takei Twilight Zone episode. And while possibly racist, the acting in this episode is quite good.

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I post links to stuff here

You can buy the Animated Series by engwar · 2004-05-06 02:42 · Score: 1

Go to http://www.facets.org. I'd recommend calling their 1-800 number as their website blows Tribbles.

forcing you to buy bootlegs ... ??? by jvj24601 · 2004-05-06 02:45 · Score: 0

One also has to wonder why in the world they are still refusing to offer the The Animated Series on DVD, forcing one to buy the bootlegs if you want to get your hands on a copy.

Huh? Wait a minute. Are you saying that if someone won't sell a [insert electronic media here], one is *forced* to buy bootlegs? Couldn't we do what we've done before, and either wait for it to be sold, or simply do without?

With an attitude like that, it's no wonder why the RIAA/MPAA/etc thinks the way they do.

Stings, huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 02:58 · Score: 0

>calling anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion "sheep," really needs to fucking stop.

Must hit pretty close to home, eh, Mister Ovis Aries?

By order of AIR date? by lightspawn · 2004-05-06 03:02 · Score: 1

As a hapless trekkie, I am outraged. We won't buy this set on principle.

The episodes should obviously have been packaged by stardate.

Re:By order of AIR date? by geekoid · 2004-05-06 06:59 · Score: 1

you should yell up the basement stairs and have your mother right a letter...

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The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:By order of AIR date? by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 21:52 · Score: 0, Flamebait

And you should yell up the basement stairs and have your mother right your post...

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Like what I said? You might like my music

Obligatory PvP Reference by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · 2004-05-06 03:07 · Score: 1

As seen here

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A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips

Region 2 only? by CaseCom · 2004-05-06 03:24 · Score: 1

All the links in the original item refer to Region 2 release. Nothing about Region 1.

The current two-episode sets are R1-only (at least that's how they're listed at Amazon.co.uk). So will they continue to sell those in North America, and offer these new sets only in Region 2?

Re:Region 2 only? by CaseCom · 2004-05-06 04:44 · Score: 2, Informative

To answer my own question...

The Digital Bits reported last October:

"Okay, folks... this was going around the Net yesterday as something in the works for Region 2, so I thought we'd get the skinny for you about Region 1. I've officially confirmed with Paramount that complete season box sets of Star Trek: The Original Series are in the planning stages for DVD release here in the States. However, you probably shouldn't expect them until after most of the work on the Star Trek: Voyager complete season DVDs is finished. Voyager is expected to be released, a season at a time, throughout 2004. I'm told that late 2004 is a possibility for TOS, but they might not be released until 2005. This is definitely going to happen, but it's early in the planning and plenty is still up in the air. So don't start warming up those phasers just yet."

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa79.html

Region free players by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 04:02 · Score: 0

How does it make you feel to be a criminal? I mean anyone who buys a DVD player which isn't sanctioned by the DVD CCA is a dirty pirate who should rot in jail. Oh wait, I'm confusing myself with someone from the MPAA. Sorry ;)

Am I the only one? by Doooh_head · 2004-05-06 04:09 · Score: 1

For some reason, whenever I see ANYTHING about Star Trek, I recall the original glory days of the show being on TV, but now, 30 years later, I think "Get a frickin' life"! It was a good show, but I couldn't give a flyin' 'frig about getting them on DVD...

I guess thats just me...

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doooh

Re:Am I the only one? by jeff13 · 2004-05-06 08:52 · Score: 1

Well, the OLD SHOW is terrific. The rest are pale imitations. Trust me, remastered Star Trek with all the scenes returned and bright colour will make you wonder why the other Treks are so dull! :)

Is there a region *1* box set? by weshart · 2004-05-06 06:12 · Score: 1

I read the article, but all I see are references to the Region-2 release. I'd love to have the original series on DVD, but unlike a previous poster, there's no way on 's green Earth I'm paying US$10 per episode to watch Shatner and Company strut their stuff.

Finally! by Brandybuck · 2004-05-06 06:33 · Score: 1

Finally! Yes, this is going to separate a trekkie from his hard earned money. But the good thing is that it's not going to separate him form as much of it as would be otherwise.

Right now if I want to replace my complete classic collection on VHS with DVD, I have to buy a couple dozen individual DVDs. With boxed sets it's going to be much cheaper.

One season of B5 costs $60. One season of classic trek costs $120. The choice of format is clear...

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Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!

Uh...right by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 09:06 · Score: 0

>If, by "excellent," you mean "mostly okay" then I agree completely.

The only artists (in any genre/medium) that are universally recognized as "excellent" are the BeeGees. Everything else is crap.

If you don't get that, then you're not in the club.

Where's Mission Impossible? by rice_burners_suck · 2004-05-06 10:55 · Score: 1

What I'd like is the re-release of all episodes from all three of the Mission Impossible series, on DVD, in the order they were released on television. I'd easily pay $200 for such a boxed set.

Animated episodes were on laserdisc by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 12:21 · Score: 0

I happen to remember that the Animated Series episodes were collected on LaserDisc. I wonder why not on DVD then?

See question # here: http://www.danhausertrek.com/AnimatedSeries/Q_and_ A.html

I want a Red Shirt... er box by JoeCommodore · 2004-05-06 13:59 · Score: 1

One of the picture show the three case colors - one in command gold, one on sciences blue and the third in operations red. Yep, the red shirt box is out there! Though some may be more interested in the Spock/McCoy blue or the Kirk Gold. I think it would have been more noticible if they did some black trim on the, or put the command/sciences insignias on the casings.

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"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield

Re:I want a Red Shirt... er box by fucksl4shd0t · 2004-05-06 21:46 · Score: 1

I don't want the red box, man. That's the one most likely to get stolen, destroyed, mangled, or otherwise rendered completely useless.
Give me the blue, nothing ever happens to people wearing blue.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music

Way off topic by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-06 17:19 · Score: 0

Just broke up with a woman, whose mother met Bill Shatner back in the TOS days.

Bill, being the studly guy, soon found himself in the company of ex-gf's mom, and they were getting frisky. His toupe fell off, she said he couldn't seem to get 'interested' after this event.

Fast forward a few decades, ex-gf is working in L.A. with a caterer. bill's daughter is getting married. ex-gf finds herself alone with bill during reception. She asks if she remembers her mom! He doesn't.

[OT] Hey! You're a recognised prophet! (-: by leonbrooks · 2004-05-10 02:03 · Score: 1

Camel hair shirt time!

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Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing

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Star Trek TOS DVD Box Sets Forthcoming

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