Slashdot Mirror
Anti-Missile Laser Weapon Successfully Tested
xPertCodert writes "A latest attempt to build a futuristic laser weapon appears to be a success.
Joint Israeli-US developed laser destroyed a large caliber rocket in a latest New Mexico test. The press release also contains links to some interesting video and photo material, related to THEL (Tactical High Energy Lasers) defense systems."
GNAA rules
Q: How does one gain access to the gay internet?
A: Easy. Just type "c::###"
(C colon, enter colon, pound pound pound)
The test went fairly well, but it wasn't without incident. After reviewing the field test, the project lead recommended adding the following warning label:
:)
"Do not look into laser with remaining eye."
Sorry, it had to be said.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
now all we need are the sharks...
I'm glad they figured out how to balance the phase variance in the polaric energy they had to run through the deflector array to fire up the phaser arrays. Ver admirable work, but it's no match for my Klingon Disrupters!
Great now we can destroyed all the nukes that will soon be coming our way if the US keeps playing around
Why do peace-types protest defense systems like this so much?
I've never understood the logic. Defensive weaponry helps reduce the threat of war.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Major Carnagle: Where's the laser? Professor Hathaway: It's coming. Major Carnagle: It's coming? It's not even breathing hard.
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Crispin
a shark with the cranial fortitude to wear it.
Pfft, anyone could have guessed that this would have been a success. Everyone knows that a laser can shoot anything! Oh, unless the laser is being held by, or possibly just anywhere near a stormtrooper, in which case it can and will shoot everything except what it is being aimed at.
Oh dear. By that argument, Ashcroft's stormtroopers really are a threat to national security. I should never have doubted... we're all gonna die!
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
why some small towns have suddenly disappeared outside the test area.
are here.
WMP or QT are availabe.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
So that's what happened to my missile.
First Fire the LASER POST!
Veramocor
Most of the pictures are dated 2000. I suspect that in four years since those pictures, the project has made significant advances. However, those results and pictures are likely classified.
Oh, by the way: FIRE THE FEAKIN LASER!!!
They will be touted as the perfect solution to a problem with heretofore only imperfect solutions (until, say, a passenger aircraft is accidentally shot down of course).
The biggest differences between this and previous missile defense systems are cost and multiple-use capability. You're not talking about using multi-million dollar missiles to shoot down incoming missiles, so you don't need to be so selective about when firing the thing off. And if you miss, you can try again ... and again.
As a defensive tool, these are, quite honestly, awesome. As an accident-waiting-to-happen in the hands of an overly-enthusiastic operator, they are, well, a little bit scary I guess.
It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Oh crap. Well, I guess I'll just have to use color spray instead.
On the whole, Preperation-H was a success!
"Derp de derp."
here is the thing I would like to do to a Slashdot Nerd, and boys, you can find my email. Basically, I think you need some LOVIN. And by that,I mean blow jobs. I'm seriouse. You kids spend way too much time here, when you could be gettin a nice wash of your tool. It's not gay, it's real. Go for it.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
...the mutated sea bass.
The "rah-rah" tone of that one video reminds me of the one we see at the start of Real Genius.
...this means world peace for our and all following generations, right?
Both Soviet Russia and the United States had comparable amounts of nuclear weapons, enough to destroy the other several times over by the late 1960's. What was preventing them from simply firing the missiles and ending the war forever was the fact that the other side could, and would retaliate. Even the Soviets were not willing to spend a significant amount of their population concentrated within urban areas for the chance of total victory.
When the Soviets announced development into an ABM (anti ballistic missile) system in the Stragetic Arms Limitatons Talks in 1969, it was not well recieved by the United States. The existance of such a system would mean that there would be no imperiative at hand for one side to annihilate the other and claim victory. The US, at this time, put research into such a technology as well, though notably less advanced than today's (it was called "setinel," and consisted of a pair of missiles designed to intercept), it was scrapped because it could not guarentee that major urban areas could be protected.
Such a situation still exists today. The number of nations that have nuclear weapons is higher than ever, not just the Soviet Union and a handful of other nations outside of the US. To think that the United States would never do such a thing like annihilate an entire population is to be naive. There were such plans during the Cold War to literally wipe Russia off the face of the planet. To other nations, this system poses a greater threat than nuclear proliferation, as it nullifies their political leverage in the world arena.
I have a question: From the video, it appears that the beam is invisible. The reasons for that are pretty obvious. I just wanted to ask, is it possible for a laser beam to get so hot that it causes the air inside of it to turn visibly vapourous? Just wondering if we'll ever see a beam like that so powerful it leaves con-trails like plains leave or something.
"Derp de derp."
I feel so safe. This is being built right across the street from where I live.
Oh yes, I feel safer already! My neighborhood is not a terrorist target at all now. F%^&kin press releases!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
So as long as everything goes exactly as planned, we're guarenteed to be probably safe!
Seriously though, why do we need to trigger a new arms race?
SecondPageMedia - Wha
When will the US learn that trying to remove the "mutual" from mutually assured destruction will earn the hostility of any number of military powers the world over?
I'm glad I live in a country that's not run by a power mad dictator with a hard-on for World War III.
Making the moon less necessary since 1998.
Now all we need is an Anti-Monument Laser and we'll be good to go!
What do you mean, "large caliber rocket"? Is that how they are going to be rated from now on?
Will we also see "assault rockets"? And "machine rockets"? And "rockets of mass destruction"?
0 -> painful reduction: 4 sentences.
We just may look up and find "CHA" written on the moon someday....
Couldn't you just coat or plate the missles with laser quality mirroring to get past the laser defense?
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
This is a tactical defensive weapon for use on a battlefield, not strategic defense. This is a mobile system meant to protect against small rockets like Katyusha class weapons. To understand why Israel is involved, you only have to look at the map on this page.
They would also be useful in defending targets against rocket attacks like the ones that have occurred in Iraq.the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
this is the threat, at least in israel (shihab 4). the latest israeli anti-missile system "ha-hetz" (the arrow) was designed to handle only singleheads. obviously it's not enough.
The coolest thing about a laser weapon, IMHO, is not the power or range or even its technology..it's the accuracy.
Aiming is the same as hitting with an energy weapon in most scenarios, the lightspeed lag only becoming a factor at high speed/long range, light an orbital target. Even then, a computer-aided targeting system should be able to compensate.
Imagine if such a weapon system were mounted in a vehicle (I think I read something about a prototype of a different laser in a 737) where just having the target in the crosshairs is enough to guarantee its destruction. Gives a new perspective to sniping. Should also reduce civilian casualties.
We're not talking about ICBMs here. This is aimed more at Katyusha batteries, a WWII truck-mounted launcher for 48 tube-launched unguided rockets. Those things had a range of about 5Km back in WWII. Their accuracy is poor, but they're cheap and can fire many rockets in the general direction of the target. Syria uses Katyusha batteries, and has been developing improved versions.
Patriot anti-missiles are too expensive to use against those things. The defenders would run out of Patriots long before the attackers ran out of Katyushas. So there's a real application for a laser weapon here. It won't stop all the incoming rockets, but cutting down a few thousand to a few hundred is a big win.
Just the other day one of my professors was talking about experiments done on monkeys using very short duration but very high intensity laser pulses(I forget how short, but something like femtoseconds). Anyway, I guess they would shoot these pulses at the monkeys' eyes and they would literally shatter from mechanical stress. I suppose the same thing could happen with a rocket.
If the missle was kindly feeding the defense system it's GPS coordinates, like the last missile defense test that hit the news.
include $sig;
1;
More like another arms race that'll make the Islamic infiltration, Islamic indoctrination, Islamic subversion and the international Islamic conspiracy to combust all of our precious American Flags seem rather small in comparison.
That's really swell for Isreal, but what about North Korea raining down fiery death from above with ballistic missiles that can hit Alaska? Also, I'd like to know how the laser would operate in more realistic conditions, like say, with multiple rockets... what's the firing rate? The way our money's being spent, we'll all be eating dog in a couple of years...
So picture this... Ground forces are stationed outside a small city (to protect the civilians). An incoming missile is detected and they shoot it down as it approaches with the laser. Unfortunately, the missile was a delivery system for chem/bio material and they just caused it to be release in the air above a populated city.
That'll make a good press release! But at least the troops were safe.
Come play Moral Decay!
Isn't anybody going to throw in the gratuitous "Kent... stop playing with yourself!" ??
Laslo rules.
Not so much for a ground based laser, it just keeps going and picks off Hubble, or the ISS or (God No!) Fox. But mounted to an aircraft, if it either misses or punches right through the target object, anything within range before the beam hits it's dispersion threshhold could be toast. Homes, office buildings, people spontaneously combusting, yada yada... You get the idea. The tinfoil hat just don't cut it anymore I guess. Eep. jm2c
More accurately, the map on this page.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
I went to school at Utah State University. The Physics department had a green laser that they used for atmosperic research. It doesn't heat the air to do it, but it is certainly visible.
Laws are horrible moral guides, moral guides make even worse laws.
The THEL was not developed with anti-nuclear capabilities in mind. It's designed to protect cities, troop movements, bases, etc from cruise missiles, artillery shells, and the like.
Now, the Airborne Laser was developed as SDI, but it only covers an area of a 100 mile circle around which it's deployed. That's not going to generally help against a large country...but instead was designed for actions against megalomanical 3rd world dictatorships, like say, North Korea.
"Aim missile away from face"
(from the one where Bart spots a comet headed towards springfield)
My other sig is funny!
If the US wants to pay for things like SDI (or whatever Star Wars is being called these days), you guys should offer an ASP defence solution.
Like, say, "we'll shoot down missles going from Korea to Japan for you.. $500,000,000/yr maintenance fee plus $1,000,000,000 per incident".
I guess the QoS SLA might come back to slap them in the face. Think they can kill four-nines worth of missles?
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
A) How is that worse than if the missile hit?
B) Is it not less likely to explode over a populated area if it's stop before it's target (city's aren't usually right next to eachother in most areas)?
C) How do you know that the laser won't annihilate much of the material?
D) Even if the laser does not annihilate the material, wouldn't the laser method of knocking the missile down be a less effective way of spreading the material?
And they are working on it. They are trying to develop an AC-130 gunship that uses one or more lasers instead of cannons. The reason is as you noted, greater accuracy to reduce the occurance of misses and collateral damage. However ther problems in this case are not only techincal but political as well.
There is fighting going on because people claim that laser weapons are forbidden by the Geneva Convention because they could blind people. Now never mind that bombs can blind, deafen, maim and oh yes, KILL people, they are up in arms about this. It may get blocked for that reason.
Ok, so the hexadecimalists are at war with the decimal-lovers (who are currently in power). So what do they do now? Are there materials that resist the wavelengths used in these lasers? A laser should give away your position rapidly, which could be transmitted for immediate retaliation. It should be exciting to see what the response will be. Nothing quite as interesting as a good weapons technology race.
-I am an elective eunuch.
that Dr. Evil must be really pissed right now
Did any of the missles have radio beacons or other tracking devices as in previous test? Until missle or laser defense systems can shoot down a missle without onboard beacons to help with aim the damn things seems prety useless to me.
Now that lasers are being touted as an awesome weapon, are they going to go nuts and ban laser devices like CD players on planes as well? I mean we are all SO impressed with aviation security in the US these days...
"I'm sorry ma'am, your laser pointer will have to be confiscated. Security reasons".
"But why are you picking on me? I'm an eighty year old grandmother! I'm harmless"
"Sorry ma'am, it's completely random"
Oh... That explains why you aren't searching those 17-40 year old Muslim males then".
http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/media/SiteFiles/ mediagallery/video/MTHEL_m.wmv
And see who is the punk that's gonna say no to my sales presentations. :)
aperture of less than a metre. Even in near-IR, that gives it a divergence of about one part in a million, meaning a kilometre away the spot is going to be a metre or two wide.
:).
Don't mind me, I just tend to mess up math past my bedtime...
At 1.0e-6 divergence, a 1m beam won't diverge significantly over 1 km. However, it's still a 1m beam.
Try to make it narrower, and it diverges. Widen it enough to not diverge much, and it's big enough that you won't be able to do fine targetting on the missile.
My point holds, even if my first try at the math didn't
Someone will probably chime in now suggesting a 1m aperture that focuses to a much narrower beam waist, but there is no way in heck you're getting optics that good (_adaptive_ optics that good) for a weapon that has to operate on the field, in real-time.
Katyusha roket launcher has range of 40Km, so those little radiuses of 20km are Doubled :) and that only the basic version of grad, the earlier version. its called Grad (Hail): Katyusha is a WWII launcher, i hoped at least someone will provide useful info. as for the usefullnedd of lazer against a salvo of 40 rokets fired within 30 seconds.. umm :) it not meant for that. probably anti-icbm or similar. i would think true purpose of this weapon will be classified as most new weapons are.
Dont Judge The situation by the Misfortunate. Goga.
Do you honestly think that there isn't an arms race going on right now?
What do you mean, trigger?
China, North Korea, Lybia, Pakistan, India, etc., etc., etc.
The arms race never stopped, it just switched focus. Sure, Mutually Assured Destruction is a great way to deter a strike, but should we rely on it? What happens when North Korea decides that they have nothing left to lose and attack South Korea? Do you honestly think that they are going to hold back because the US might retaliate with nukes? We would certainly retaliate with overwhelming force, but the political climate in the US would almost certainly not allow us to retaliate in kind with nuclear weapons.
It sure would be nice to have another option and possibly avoid those millions of deaths in the first place.
there is a small flaw with the idea of a missle defense system: The laser is pretty much useless against any attack that uses "dummy" missles (and any one that can build an active missle can build dummies). During most of the US govt's tests the "active" missle was lit up a bit more then the dead missles. Which of course helps the computer decide which missle to take down. It's a decent idea, but it's not feasable just yet.
"That's a hell of a sunburn Ralph."
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
...I see Bush on TV...
...addressing the nation...
lasers....
satellites...
Oh wait, my bad. That was Reagan! Or was it?
Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
NIGGERS
That is the new google bomb: Re: quote from Simpsons
It is nigger time friends.
Easy on the server here, we don't want to use mirrors...
Yeah, well I have an anti-anti-missile.
-Obscure reference.
That's not what is intended for. You could use the same argument about bomb detecting devices and say "How is that going to stop someone with a Samurai sword chopping people up in a local mall.
Creative Demolition
I wonder if the missile used in this test had a finishing that easily absorbs the laser energy. If it would be made of a highly reflective material, almost all energy would be reflected, and it would not be affected.
Screw large caliber rockets. I wanna laser that can blast an asteroid at a great enough distance so that it's remnants burn to dust in the atmosphere, or elude our orbits totally.
Preferably mounted on a large shark that won't eat LL CoolJ if given the chance.
I think those people warning about this laser system starting an arms race are quite right, albeit in a way they themselves perhaps haven't envisaged. Taking a look at the video of the system, the first thing that came to my mind was the very first cannons that were used by medieval armies for breaking down fortified walls during sieges. This laser, ironically has the same look as they did, with a short squat barrel.
Those early cannons heralded the beginnings of modern firearms. Since they were so devastating and since they gave their users such a massive advantage, there was no stopping them being eventually used by all sides of all conflicts, with a continual slow push to develop smaller more powerful versions (and some bloody huge monsters if you look at battleship guns of the last century) as time went by. The same thing happened to missiles, which were first used as artillery in WWII (and unguided aerial versions were then first used as well) to eventually become the enormously expensive guided systems that are commonplace today.
This laser has the capability of bringing in the next round of weapons development. As such, it is both a bane and a boon to warfare (weapons makers seldom think in depth about the horrors they make). If this system is successful (as well as the one they're dumping in a 747) there will be a push to develop ever more powerful compact versions which will become a normal part of the military's arsenal. But you can imagine the devastation that a weapon like this can wreak on ground targets. A slow sweep across the enemy's front will literally turn everything into fire, apart from burning the occasional incoming shell.
The people who claimed that potential enemies would build more or shielded missiles to counter this do not see where this weapon will lead us: The potential enemy, China or even a revitalised Russia (or anyone else with enough money) will surely embark on a crash development phase to build their own battlefield lasers, but only smaller and more powerful if they can. If you think they can't you are dreaming. In the 80's in the last years of the cold war, an American navy patrol plane's pilot was blinded after he looked at a new type of turretless weapon on board a Soviet nuclear cruiser. The Soviets acctually had already installed a test system into one of their ships. And that was in the 80's. The most modern Chinese main battle tank has a defensive laser system on top of the turret, which is meant to be aimed at the operators and optics of enemy tanks and helicopters. They wouldn't have mounted it on their tanks if it didn't work at all.
What this means is that others will surely join the race to make their own lasers as powerful as this one, and laser technology is far less restricted than nuclear technology. Every CD player has one built in, for example. BUt I assume, because of the weapons potential, that there will be no stopping the development of these weapons by all sides.
If the missle reflects or otherwise renders harmless 90% of the incoming energy, that means the laser has to be ten times more powerful to be effective. That's good enough.
Geez! 90%! That's a huge fraction. Think of getting a 90% pay cut, or losing 90% efficiency in your car's usage of fuel, or anthing else cut by a factor of ten.
If they thought the laser weapon would be good enough with one tenth the power, they would have designed it that way, saved a bundle of money and deveopment time, and have fielded the weapon years ago. The fact that it is still experimental implies they have a ways to go, and no doubt would love to have more power.
90%! Sheesh.
Infuriate left and right
Existing THEL is about six buildings, and that is not quite a mobile platform.
THEL description
Mobile THEL prototype is not close yet (2007 optimists telling ) and will take about three trucks. Looks like existing THEL could be useful only for static defence positions in Isreal and South Korea.
The US government will probably mount one of those on a "weather" satellite.
"Suspected terrorist spontaneously combusts outside apartment. Authorities baffled."
Has the success of this test been verified by any third parties? The US Military tends to declare every test a success, regardless of the actual results. Sometimes the tests are rigged to create an illusion of success and other times they just simply lie.
The Palestinians are just plain lucky they are not dead, each and every one. Certainly they have asked for it again and again. Every day that the Palestinians are not expelled en masse to Jordan or Egypt is an act of humane compassion on the part of the Israelis. The scum have defiled the Holy Land long enough.
At every border of the Muslim world, the tribal moon-demon Allah (piss be upon him) inspires his followers to orgies of bloodshed and hatred and oppression of their non-Muslim neighbours. We could use fifty thousand miles of such fencing, and the will to quarantine the Mohammedan filth behind it.
That's actually a good point. However, it still means that the LASER was worth developing. If reflective strips can be developed to protect against attack by this weapon, then - to account for the extra weight - those rockets must (in addition to the cost of those reflectors):
In all these cases it becomes more expensive (per weight and hence destructive ability) to wage war. That's a good thing, as it lessens the chance of it.
It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
- Jerome Klapka Jerome
Lies damn lies. Microsoft is a liar.
Let me get this straight... a laser article with no references to a big friggin' shark, and just this one reference to Real Genius? What's become of /.?
All's true that is mistrusted
Cost of developing anti-missile laser? $50 billion
Cost of building anti-missile laser? $10 million
Cost of deploying anti-missile laser? $15 million
Cost of mirror fitted to missile? $1.99
Effect of reflected laser on defending forces? priceless.
So the first thing... is I'm all for solid defense, and the tools needed to prevent assault to the safety and well being of Americans on their own soil. I am absolutely interested in peace in the world, and the serious search for the means and methosd to attain and maintain that peace. I am however clear, that there're people in the world who think that the word conversation begins with the letters "BOOM". So I have no problem with the idea of working towards a sane and effective shield or better deterent to missile attack.
However, we need to be realistic... we need to look at the results of the tremendous, time (over 20 years), effort (millions of man hours), and money (over $100,000,000,000) spent, all to produce precisely DICK! Nada, Bupkiss... ZERO! When will I get to say, come on guys, you can stop blowing smoke up my panties, I'm sporting a pair of fully cured hams at this point and any more will simply ruin the fine smokey flavor...
Every sane scientist on the planet says;
The only place to stop an intercontinental ballistic missile is at launch... all other points in it's tragectory pose insurmountable technical problems making a missile defense system untenable, impractical, and for all intents useless. I could go into the LENGTHY discussion about the endless problems facing detection, isolation, aiming/targeting, communication, and defense of sensing and defensive satellites... just leave it at, it cost them pennys to evade, and us billions to detect... not a sane plan under any logical method I've ever heard of.
The added problem of blasting missile where they launch, is that folks in other countries tend to get a wee bit antsy when we go around hovering high energy weapons over their heads... "just in the off chance" (and just for the "screw them if they can't take a joke" croud, you have to remember we've already burned a little international karma with this whole Iraq thing.)
That leaves what little interesting we have left from that $100,000,000,000 blank check we wrote the defense departments and it's friends. The results from that research fall into three categories;
* high energy devices that throw metal slugs at speeds up to 13 miles per second,
* massive pulses of high energy particles from neutrons to atomic nuclei to x-rays,
* and last but certainly not least high energy lasers.
Outside of the atmosphere these weapons have some range, but will almost certainly be unable to fid their targets. Inside the atmosphere their range is terribly limited. For mass throwers, particle or slugs just don't go very far, or in a predictable way through air. For lasers there's blooming and a variety of other problems that are very difficult to overcome. You just can't hit a target very far away in the air with a high energy weapon.
Lasers end up being the best of a bad lot, in a high energy terrestrial based antimissile weapon lottery. So for a quick overview, what you have is a multibillion dollar weapon, that's only good for a few miles, desparately trying to lock onto an evassive flying target that travels at several mach and is highly manueverable. You have only seconds between target identification. You have to instantly site a target only inches across, lock on it no matter how it changes it's path, and aim a laser at it with the precision of inches fired at 3 to 7 miles. All of that and there are simple brute force methods that are by comparison dirt cheap, and orders of magnitude more reliable. That, and these are just the simple technical problems...
They don't even begin to address the fact that nobody is going to be firing missiles at us in the foreseeable future, or that the next big bomb to arrive on American shores is most likely going to arrive via Fed-Ex. Add to that the fact that a sane international diplomacy, might have prevented the need for any defensive weapons in the first place, and I have to ask those that are for this silly boondoggle... please give me the tiniest of rational explanations why
And at enormous financial burden to our taxpayers, because the Israelis are far more important than a bunch of dirty old A-Rabs.
There is already a defense against ground skimming cruise missles. It's called a Phalanx system, and it's nothing more than a gattling gun and a radar. Shoots a wall of lead in front of the missile. Works automatically on multiple targets.
A reflective tin foil hat...
Is there a working missle based system for deployment of chemical and or biological agents on a scale such as you describe?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Most missles (ICBMs at least) would be flying above an airplane so the plane wouldn't be angled down when it fired. And these systems are designed to focus on the missle, if they miss, the beam would diverge just past where it expected to hit the missle.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Just because you disagree with me does not make it flamebait or a troll you retards. I hope you're meta-modded appropriately.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Newton Baker Served as U.S. President Woodrow Wilson's Secretary of War from March 1916.
Google is your friend!
-Nivag
I thought slashdot was full of nerds? What kind of nerds don't understand simple physics?
These lasers emit energy in the megawatt region. A mirror takes photons - absorbs them - and then reemits them. There aren't many mirrors that can absorb 10 million watts of energy.
In fact, that very problem is what makes laser weaponry so damn expensive and difficult to do. They need very heavy, exotic and expensive mirror systems to focus and aim the laser energy without being destroyed by the laser themselves. You can't just go down to home depot and buy a big mirror. You can't just coat a missile in some silly bike reflectors or shiny foil.
Even if you were to somehow invent a reflective coating that could handle megawatts of energy - and still be light enough to just paint on a missile - you'd have to deal with the coating becoming marred in flight, as anything the laser comes in contact with (ie, birdshit or what have you) its going to superheat to thousands of degrees and burn right through and destroy the missile.
-
I remember reading some time ago about the possibility of using pulsed high intensity lasers to ionize a path through the air that could then be used as a guide for charged particles to follow. Particle beam weapons don't have the inverse square law working against them, although I imagine there are a number of other problems.
Haven't heard anything about this in a long time..
..don't panic
Now all we need is a little laser to intercept them right before launch, then we'll be all set!
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
Science is figuring out how the universe works, not how swiftly we can slaughter each other like so many cattle.
Another example of
"Ummm... we got a grant for it, and it beats flippin burgers. Living in Oceania has fewer options than it did a few years back. So I sold my soul to the neocons and now I make stupid weapons that are not going to stop some idiot trained in martial arts armed with a plastic knife on an airplane. I'm just part of the problem, but it pays my mortgage."
WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
thank g-d for Israel, FYI without them the US would still be using bayonettes---Israeli ideologies hold human life as the highest precept and their military technology reflects this. The US needs Israel more than Israel needs the US...although the Israel air force is significantly smaller than the US air force...Israeli's design the newest advances in technology for fighter jets and so their fleet would run circles around the US fleet Troll blah blah blah...
something to keep those pesky x-prize contestants out of my backyard!!!
Phalanx only works if you are in range of the target. In other words, they are great if you want to stop 4-5 missles and you know the target (like a ship). They don't work on large area targets. If you want to defend a building or ship, they work fine. If you want to protect a city (say Los Angeles) you would need to place one Phalanx every 3-4 miles along the coast. Further, the system can track a maximum of 64 targets for each turret, so numbers would win again.
The cheap, plentiful cruise missle is the most effective non-developed vehicle out there, it is only a matter or time till some smart government figures that out.
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
If you're gonna be ranting against american defense policy, at least get the terminology right!
It already IS working. Where did I say it wouldn't work? All I am saying is that these systems are built to defend against a ballistic trajectory (where targeting is much easier) and that it won't take long for hostile nations to find ways around it.
A spaced-based system would be equally ineffective against ground-hugging systems because they still have to punch through the atmosphere if you keep your missles in the atmosphere. One other issue, a space based platofrm would be almost impossible to maintain. The fuel for the laser they are using is in a cryogenic one-shot tube. A new tube must be put in the chamber for each shot (like a bullet). This means there will be a limited number of shots from any satellite. Further, the power required for one of these systems would be astronomical from space. Not only are you still trying to hit from range, but you now have a 380mi elevation. Gravity does not help a laserr beam. You have just increased the needed range by putting this system in space.
I'm not against these systems, nor am I saying they won't work. All I am saying is that they don't provide a long term solution. Frankly, I think the money would be better spent on our international intelligence. If you never want to be attacked by suprise, have a damn good intelligence agency. You can always respond if you have enough warning via spys. You can't do squat if they overcome your missle defense. There's no backup, and no time.
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
The UN is irrelevent. Might makes right. Let the extermination of the islamists commence.
Trust me. There is *nothing* that I would like better than to turn their own morality against them with 30 Megaton yeilds.
The Palestinians could have won. Look at Ghandi. He brought an empire arguably proportunately more powerful than the United States to his will in an age when communications weren't measured in hours, or minutes, let alone seconds. But no, they'd rather shot little children in the head, as a tactical objective. Fine. They've abdicated their right to be present on this earth as a people. Fuck them. They are congenital ass-clowns and will not be missed.
The article fails to mention much about the Katyusha ("Little Katie"). It's a 60 year old rocket platform used by the Soviets in the second world war, later redesigned by the Israelis after they captured some Arab Katyushas during the Six Day War. These things aren't accurate worth a damn in comparison to modern rockets - the Germans had much better 50 years ago. :P Supposedly we're about to start testing this laser on captured SCUD missiles from Iraq. It's still going to be some time before this is going to be any much use in defending Taiwan.
Ok, lets ride with this..
Osama Bin Laden gets hold of one of those suitcase nuclear bombs that the Russians mislaid at the end of the Cold War.
He *could* build/buy an ICBM, put it on top, find somewhere to launch it, etc.
Or he *could* (for instance) get hold of an old cargo ship, get some phoney pretext to deliver goods to the US, kit it out with suicide bombers, and just sail right in. Or one of another 100 similar possibilities..
Now which scenario is currently most likely?
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
What nobody else seems to have mentioned is that the lasers make use of hydrogen (or deuterium) fluoride. From what I've read, this is pretty nasty stuff. See Northrop Grumman's page on chemical lasers and then check out the some info on HF here or here. You won't catch me working near one of these things!
Karma: Nonnegative
Obviously what we need at the moment is some more Yankee justice.
And what better way to grace the world with such an experience, eh? The best God-damned technology energy weapons.
Thanks again, USA, for saving the world from those who have weapons that you gave them last year by bringing tomorrow's warfare into today.
A new device to keep prisoners of war awake.
Bet it really tickles.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
... there are no other problems to solve first. But yeah, the U.S. military budget always comes first, right. Great work guys. Kudos to them that they joint develop with the Israelis! Keep the irony if you find it...
All you need to do is look at THESE maps...
m l
http://www.gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.ht
And you will also learn how they do not need to be.
Already works against this crap ass system.
. 20 040219.wruss0219/BNPrint/International/
But don't worry! The Russians won't use it against the Americans.
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM
Once question for the Americans though... If you guys spent 50 years fighting communism all over the world, why are you giving your countries industries to the largest communist nation on earth?
We give about 3 billion in military aid to Israel every year. Given that they can't really give any material contribution, can they? 10 to 1 they'll be selling this technology to China within the decade.
Does it work in rain? Obsession with high technology could be bad sometimes...
Rubbish. That was Jewish land until the Mohammedan cutthroats came out of the Arabian desert 1300 years ago.
For that matter, large areas of what is now Jordan, Syria, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia were once inhabited by Jews. That's their land, and I'd like to see them take it back by brute force, including the oil fields and the cities of Mecca and Medina.
I don't really care what happens to the Arab trespassers who are squatting there now. Let them fend for themselves as camel herders in the Empty Quarter, just like their ignorant bloodthirsty grandfathers. Fuck them all, the fucking lice, they have contributed absolutely fucking nothing to the well-being of the world.
I'd like to see the Kaaba draped in pig guts and dog shit, with Israeli soldiers pissing against its walls.
side...
Never assume that who you marching for has your best interest at heart, let alone your way of living. Many protest marchs are funded by groups that if the protesters knew they would hopefully not march.
Just slapping a "sounds nice / feed good" name on a group seems to satisfy most peoples needs. I guess it goes to show a lot of people feel the need to show they care even if they are not willing to go to the effort to find out why.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
...lie a lot of dead people.
CU in hell.
As pointed out by so many before you who RTFA... This is NOT a system against ICBMS, but against short range, small missiles. Probably not effective at all at a range better than 50 miles, but since we're talking about missiles that can't GO more than 50 miles, thats ok. As for hitting people / trees / buildings, you generally wont hit them because a missile will be comming in from above the horizontal. Depolying a system like this inside a city is foolish: by the time the laser intercepets the misile, it's already over the population center, so knocking it down is going to do damage anyway.
As far as hitting orbiting things, you've got to realize that stuff in orbit is fastly spread out compared to stuff on the ground. Odds of randomly firing a laser from the ground and hitting something in space are about as good as trying to pick off a fly on the wall with a very small rock from the other side of the room. Even if this laser did "hit" a satelite, it would be so diffuse by the time it got there that there would be virtualy no damage.
I am not coming out of my Y-2-K bunker until we are safe from all meteor/comet impact.
I suggest you read Slashdot
[best Dr. Evil voice] Finally, I can complete my dream to put a laser on the moon. I will call it the, "Death Star".
"Why don't you gentleman have a Pepsi?"
Good job tribe of Abraham, followers of Moses. Can't even follow your own stupid commandments. Love thy neighbor it says. Meanwhile Israel is by far the most hostile country to all the countries surrounding it.
Stupid piece of shit country.
Yeah!! What the hell?!?! Now I fear the Israelophiles will reply with arguments about stopping Terror (or, as Bush says, "tearr"), and about how Israel is the only democracy in the middle-east, blah blah blah blah. How it is our 'friend' (bombing of USS Liberty anyone?), blah blah blah.
Honestly why do we give so much money to Israel? Can anyone explain this to me? Why is US press coverage so clearly pro-Israeli and one-sided, rather than being fairer? Why is the entire United States brianwashed daily with anti-muslim propaganda?
It all makes me sick. Plus, if you go around saying this stuff in New York, you get labeled an anti-semite. Which is worse than being a Commie back in the 50's...
"The tinfoil hat just don't cut it anymore I guess. Eep. jm2c"
Yeah, because we all know how effective it was against misdirected bombs or anti-aircraft artillery shells falling back to earth.
Maybe at the momeht they are, but they're not very "close" friends! Remember the surveillance plane they harassed, crashed into and then hung onto? That was just a few years ago...
This isn't a case of preparing to fight the *LAST* war, it's preparing to fight the *NEXT* war. Technology like this takes a while to develop; if there's, say, a 20-year lead time, how confident are you other countries missiles will not pose a threat for 20 years?
According to an article on the Laser Focus World website MTHEL system is chemical powered, deuterium fluoride to be exact. I don't imagine that deuterium fluoride is too availible. I wonder how much it cost per target destroyed.
This is of course impossible to know as the output of the laser is still classified.
There's a big difference between attacking a military target (building / vehicle / person) and killing civilians who are near it, and explicitly targetting civilians. There's no rationale for attacking a children's school other than to kill children & terrorize people. (unless, of course, arms are stockpiled inside, etc; that turns it into a potential military target. Re: al-Sadr hiding in mosques. But I digress!)
I cannot vouch for all the Israeli attacks, but many of the condemned attacks have involved military targets. Yes, sometimes civilians were killed; if you put your military bases & arms stockpiles *in residential neighborhoods*, what do you expect?
Please please mod parent up. I do not know if this is general wisdom, but I have come up with these exact ideas.
Here's another: I'm a vegitaarian, peace loving being - or so I tell myself - but most of my ancestors were the just opposit: cunning hunters and warriors. So me being here is a result of many generations of carnivours!.
I am seeing a direct link between intelligence and violence.
"...normal evolution would have gone Word to Frame to troff, but instead, the computer industry has gone the other way!"
Real Genius was rebroadcast yesterday; I think it was on Comedy Central. Caught it from the beginning (usually come in halfway thru).
Which brings to mind a Slashdot poll idea:
Can you pound a 6-inch spike through a board with your penis?
(a girls gotta have her standards)
Has anyone else noticed that the press release is virtually content free?
What it says is, "We had one successful test on a bigger, faster, higher target than before. Some other tests worked in the past, too."
What it doesn't say is:
1) How much bigger/faster/higher?
2) How many tests were unsuccessful?
3) Those past successful tests were what fraction of the total tests?
That's not even considering all the background information left out that is available elsewhere, like how big the laser system is, what its duty cycle is, etc.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Hey, people! :-|
First anti-missile laser was successfully tested in Soviet Union about twenty years ago
This was done on Sary-Shagan test range, near Balkhash lake.
>If we only have to spend $100 for each $1 that North Korea has to spend, they're losing the arms race, because we've got $10,000 for each $1 they have.
Except that economics are even more biased in favor of the missile developer. The reflective coating is only going to cost about $10 on a missile that was developed 60 years ago that only costs about $100 in volume. To harden against the effects of the reflected beam on ground-based facilities and operators (including the people who aim the weapon, etc.) will be significantly more expensive, perhaps 10% of the cost of the weapon.
To harden against the effects of the reflected beam on ground-based facilities and operators (including the people who aim the weapon, etc.) will be significantly more expensive
Why is that? Why can't they just use tarps made out of the same type of reflective "bicycle reflective tape"? Or better yet, since they don't care about bouncing it straight back, just good old fasioned shiney IR mirror tarps.
I work at the NPS Free Electron Laser Program(FEL) program and ive seen footage onf this before. it s a nice laser and it really does work, the only problem is
1) tones of toxic waste
2) it requires two tankers of nasty stuff for about 10 minuts of firing.
3) the wavelength that the laser fires at is a crappy one 1micron is optimal for propogation in the atmostphere.
the future of lasers it the FEL
1) its tunable.
2) no toxic waste
3 ) can fire for longer periods of time.
4) costs less to use.
as for the military advancements being a waste of money.
1) almost evvery technological thing you use today was developed by the nilitary at one point or another,
2) the military helps bring more products to market with pure R&D than any other organisation in the world
3) all peace loving hippies are idiots and they should die.
There have to be some people looking at the target and aiming the laser. Even assuming that they'll be using indirect electro-optics (i.e. a carefully aligned video camera), *those* optics have to be hardened. Also, everybody in the general vicinity of the source has to be shielded and out of harm's way of the reflected (diffused) beam, which may be tens of metres across.
All of this is technically feasible, but generally increases the operational costs and risks of using the weapon.
2004-05-07 15:54:12 Star Wars (well, sort of) - but it works! (articles,space) (rejected)
and i included pictures of the THEL and all sorts of crap.
here
bastards. /gripe/
Lasers will not save Israel. Nuclear bombs will not save Israel. Guns, bombs, assassination, torture, and lies will not save Israel. Only equal rights can save Israel. That is what saved South Africa. That is what brought racial peace to America.
Israel so caught up in their racist psychosis, Zionism, that they will never see the reality of their situation. But America should be different, we have had our own civil rights struggle and we chose the right path to peace. Why do we get it so wrong with Israel?
This little book: Crop Circles: Evidence of a Cover-Up (An Orbis Enigma Book) by Nicolas Montigiani argues that crop circles are evidence of the testing and development of high powered, computer guided, laser or microwave beam weapons. I know it sounds crazy, but if he's right about the evidence, it sure make more sense than all the new age nonsense about ufos and aliens. And it also implies that one of these days we'd be seeing a story just like this one in the news.
That light's travelled through the air, bounced off the target's paint two or more times, and travelled through the air again. Like you say its pretty diffuse by now! Even if its still harmful, I can think of three countermeasures: for most stuff, reflectivey tarps should do it. For the cameras, you can either have them "duck" (implemented by turning the mirror they peer through, or sunglasses), or have two cameras, the second of which specializes in tracking things that are really bright in the wavelength the laser fires at.
:)
But you're right, it is sounding more complicated than "tape".
Wishful thinking.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Can this laser fire rapidly enough in order to protect from multiple missiles hitting at the same time ?
...because it would sort of defeat to some exent or another one's other camoflage techniques. Imagine being able to spot vehicles with this armor on it by simply flying a low-powered targetting laser beam, and watching for the reflections coming back, and then lobbing Hellfire missiles at them...
While it could make for a bummer of a day for the powerful laser, it would sure make life easier for laser-guided munitions...
The sword is double-edged...
for everyone who keeps saying its easy to reflect ... you really need to do your research on how this system works... i mean come on down you think they thought of this potential ? the cost to outfit your missles is outragous...... heat laser......
also your forgeting the fact there are other anti missile systems such as the system being tested that uses high frequency sound to destroy things.. but that project isnt as far as this one is for practical use..
*hats off to the guys who understand why its being developed and references to cold war and deterance...
here leaves my anti military support:
if you dont like how we develop weapons for defence THEN MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!! im sure if you were in some country in daily conflict you would change your mind...
I was there then, working for the gov't at a _very_ high level. Reagan's play on this was truly inspired, even though he was no particular friend of mine (get all these hippie hackers off the budget and buy more bullets, was his line, to paraphrase). But it worked. The wall fell. Only an actor could have pulled this off, and there's more to tell than I can, using my real name, but it was really good. Besides, SDI kept some very important scientific/engineering teams together with something to do when there was basically nothing to do. But as we've found in the past, just disbanding them has bad results later when you suddenly realize you need more science or engineering. It was a good play. It worked. And, like most successes of this nature, the full truth won't come out soon, that only happens with the big failures. You might get a clue by reading Aviation Week for the period in question...
And as for this brave talk about how the US would respond to occupation, my parents have had up close and personal experience with being under two occupations, onlt one of them being US, and all this talk from various armchair "Partisans" is just that, talk.
...to wait until one of our enemies develops a missile shield, thus enabling them to dominate us?
Generals who fight the last war, indeed.
Try this possibility: Ship-board defense against more "Coles" and "Starks". Maybe the CIWS is just too damn faulty, too "broke dick" or NMC/Non-Mission-Capable for comfort.
Imagine this type of weapon being slaved to a Raptor or other UAV that slaves together many ships in a task force so that cooperative engagement is enhanced. This type of slaving could defend against small stealth craft that might be modified to deceive certain types of range-gating issues.
If an armed UAV is tied to the laser tracking system or search system, it can do the shooting so the laser system aboard ship can remain in standby.
However, imagine if this type of laser is used against swimmers in the water. Wires or a grid can be dispersed in the water so that disruptions in the field can alert that something's afoot. If it is sufficiently large, say a man, seal, dolphin, etc, it can be burned by the laser, if the laser is strong enough to cook flesh or disrupt neural patterns say 6-25 feet down. Orbital blue-green search lasers come to mind when searching for submarine wakes from prop wash or turbulence from the hull breaking water as it displaces the water in its path.
Imagine if this laser were adapted to fire on other ships. Alternatively, as piracy is worsening each year, this could be an effective way to burn up pirates before they can scale the hull and loot the ship. A few laser shots at $1,000 a pop to save a ship load of high-value merchandise would be cheap insurance, right?
I guess I could guess and suppose all night long, but the way the world is going, and having re-read many old books (20-plus-year old books from the '80'), I don't think many secrets out there for highly visible weapons defense systems can stay secret for very long. Hell, as a 21-year old Radioman, I am SURE I was not recalling classified message traffic on the mess deck when my RM Chief overheard me talking to other shipmates. I was on a thread/topic of the "Soviets" being able to cripple a battle group with wake-homing torpedoes. The chief was LIVID. Hell, I didn't see any such traffic. But, I watched a lot of Star Trek, and I have an ok imagination. In high school and beyond, I argued to some that it simply is not NECESSARY to make a torpedo hit upon a carrier to take her out of the fight. Hell, for that matter, it's not necessary to SINK her. Just lob some low-yield nukes or high-explosive devices over the flight deck. Required strength? Just enough to warp the flight deck, wreck the catapults, and the arrestor wires. The ONLY use, then, for the CVN would be the launch and recover rotary and VSTOL craft able to make it back after what WAS there scrambled to launch with whatever fuel was in the tanks. Anything aloft would run out of fuel unless tankers or other CVs/CVNs were around.
I got/was bestowed the nickname "TAO", for the term "Tactical Action Officer" and shipmates said, "damn, Syes, it's a GOOD thing you're on OUR side and not the Russians'". I'm on no side but the thinking or imagination side. Or, on "my side". My side shuns unilateral action that is duplicitous or double-standard. Take from that what you will. Then I was young and idealistic, super-patriotic, and such. But, I was defiant enough to get a copy of books from Bob Woodward while still enlisted. Before graduating from high school, I bought books that I now learned were hot items the CIA wanted to quash and prevent publishing of. I then and I now will buy whatever interests me, if it's legally published. I draw ships, and I put my designs and research (as an individual with an imagination) in the hands of anyone. Not one single country, but for fictional, supposition/speculation uses. I must bring this thread to an end, but suffice to say that laser types of weapons can be used to destroy or burn up things. Liquids such as people can be cooked by even AEGIS radars, since they generate huge amounts of lethal waves. They can even disrupt local television and other communications systems in just TEST MODE alone, unless a patch/cutout is enabled.
It seems that all the discussion is about the laser, when the real breakthrough (and the real value-add from the Israelis) are the processors that take in the sensor data, analyze it, and steer the laser to the target.
Recently, an Israeli company called Lenslet (www.lenslet.com) developed an optical DSP that can process 8 x 10^12 3-digit multiplications per second. I wouldn't be surprised if this company is one of the subcontractors.
Read a preview of my novel CYBERCHILD at www.smartalix.com/cyberchild
First posts are lame, but last posts go unread!
If it works why are they so worried about telling the rest of the world about it? best thing about war technology developed in the US: marketing
Having worked at both sights and on other weapsons systems there are a few things.
1. The lasers are MORE than powerful enough to crisper things right out of the sky. In fact they don't burn or melt as much as they just cause things to heat up super fast and the thermal effects of heating up stuff quickly take over (ie, they explode from thermal shock).
2. Sniping at a system is almost useless because the ranges we are talking about is MUCH farther than any sniper could hit. We are talking miles and miles.
3. We have shot bullets out of the sky, it was a Mach 5 HEAT (High Energy Anti-Tank) round from a A1 and it was hit with a Phanlax system. Usually you just need one bullet to knock it off course and then the rotation as well as back aerodynamics take it off course and cause it to corkscrew or to tumble.
Anyways have a good one.
hardworking on your next gen systems coward...
You'd have 100ms per bullet starting when each bullet left the muzzle. Say your attacker has a weapon with a ROF of 900 RPM (a bullet hose indeed). You have what, about 67ms to handle each round? That's alot of time in the world of microchips.
As far as vaporizing the bullet, I would just work on reshaping the bullet to something less aerodynamic, and more unstable. Just vaporise one side of the bullet in an airfoil shape so it spins out in a few large loops, or dives into the ground.
After the first burst of rounds, the previously mentioned radar should be able to locate the shooter especially with some help from an acoustic positioning system. Guess where the last laser shot goes?
do not look into laser with remaining eye socket! Or, damage the weapons firing mechanism.
I think the original poster is on the right track.
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org