Slashdot Mirror
Gmail Cracks Down on Third-Party Notifiers
crtfdgk writes "Recently, Google's gmail service has attempted to change login protocols to block third-party gmail notifiers that alert you to new email. Google has now taken it one step further and created a word-identification script filter as part of the login process. Personally, I find Google's gmail notifier annoying since it sits in my taskbar and doesn't have popup notification, unlike many other worthy Firefox or Mozilla plugins that feature gmail notification. Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email? Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?"
Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email? Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?
My feeling is that if it's a *FREE* service (meaning you don't pay Google anything to use Gmail) then no, you shouldn't be free to use whatever third party software you choose.
Sorry but when you're not even a paying customer, I feel no love.
I am really appalled seeing Google taking such an action.
:(
I TRIED Gmail Notifier and it does NOT do what I want: it can only read new emails from the INBOX for example, NOT from the rest of my folders!
Who says Google is trying to stifle 3rd party apps? It is still beta, they are still fixing things, and nothing has been finalized. Instant Messenger services change their protocols occasionally but they don't block 3rd party apps.
Either way, if you've got a Gmail account, be sure to give them your two cents.
I've been trying to imagine why google would do such an un-google thing. Perhaps they're worried about coders going to next level, and coding up entire gmail readers--or incorporating gmail account readers into something like Thunderbird. Adding that word-identification script filter to the login process would certainly prevent something like that--but also has the side effect of blowing up the seemingly innocuous gmail email notifier.
Which leads me to wonder how google's own system tray email notification program can still work. Obviously it's still possible, in theory, to do this same thing in spite of the word-identification script filter. Perhaps google will publish an API that 3rd party developers can use solely for the use of gmail notification abilities in their own programs.
I can't believe (thought it's definitely possible) that their goal would be to blow up only the 3rd party email notification programs. It seems like 3rd party notification programs would serve to only promote the use of gmail. And, as far as I know, they gain no ad revenue directly from their gmail notification system tray icon.
They actually publish an API for doing (limited) google searches in 3rd party programs, which seems like a more overt way to avoid ads and avoid google's revenue source. Maybe that'll be history soon, who knows? I hope this isn't an indication of their new corporate policy and philosophy.
-- "A chicken is an egg's way of making another egg."
Does it hurt their advertizing revenue stream? It just doesn't make sense to me, but then a lot of things that some companies do don't make sense to me.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?" Well, there already are restrictions in the way they have the site built. I can't use lynx (or links/elinks) or konqueror to access my GMail as it is.
Steal This Sig
I thought it might be because I had https:// bookmarked, but it's not on either site.
I notice no word verification... I like the google gmail notifier it does do pop ups. :) plus you can choose "tell me again" to see the pop up again if you missed it.
Usually google has been friendly with users. But why bother them with something that looks as innocent as email notifiers, unless they have some kind of spyware in theirs they want to show ?
I suggest either running your own email server, or getting a decent imap account from your isp. Although webmail services may be convenient at times, you have to come to grips with the fact thats its a webmail service, so you're not going to get all the bells and whistles. Gmail is neato, but I don't think it's good enough for the power user.
Hi there
This is still a free beta email service. I can't believe I am reading a complaint about a beta service. You are there to fix bugs and offer suggestions.
/. commentary...
"Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?"
fuckin
Since when does it not have popup notification?
They have a right to do this. I like Google's services as much as the next person, but I think it's a bit silly to unanimously praise GMail. Google is a company like any other, and I hope this little incident reminds the Google fanboys of that. We need to be wary and responsible.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
Third party notifications will cause Google to loose money on their adsense revenue. Simply put, if i was in google's position I would do something similar. Coincidently, some sites, like mine, rely on adsense revenue in order to stay online/stay as a free service. Thankfully, adsense pays well enough by people visiting a site and clicking on a link that it is a viable solution if you have a target audience (like the stock market or whatever).
I've also heard rumors of people making $50/click off of adsense which is absurd! Hence, why Google wants every dime they can get!
-------
artlu.net
anyone have a invite?
http://Lenny.com
If I had to guess, I'd have to say this is the problem with unofficial notifiers.
Whenever a user logs on, their entire mail spool is loaded into memory for fast access (since hard drive access is so slow.) This is normally not a problem, since only a small percentage of users will be actively online at a time. However, when there is an email notifier logging on every five minutes checking for new emails, this creates increased server load for Google's servers. Google's Notifier doesn't have this problem, since it just waits for a packet to be sent out by Google.
That's my guess, anyway. I doubt they're doing it just to be annoying.
One the one hand I don't see why they'd block third party mail notification programs, if anything it just makes the transition to gmail easier if you are used to the other free mail providers. On the other hand though it is their servers and they should be able to limit access to them as they see fit.
I like it how i'm just surfing the web, and it pops right up, tells me I have mail, and even gives me the subject and some of the message. I would prefer it over anything else. Really, thats the only info you need in a notifier.
I just logged in, and I saw no word thing. Besides, it's still a ridiculous idea unless Google plans on making their tray icon for Linux, MacOS, etc. also.
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
There is no word-identification process. Login is just the same as before.
To slashdot editors: Please, verify information before posting it.
They have the right to do what they want with their software, just as you have the right to write code that's interoperable with theirs.
Disconnect and self-destruct, one bullet at a time.
"Google has now taken it one step further and created a word-identification script filter as part of the login process." In fact if you go there now you won't see this. This is part of Gmail's anti bruteforcing stuff. If you get a password wrong so many times it starts requiring you to enter a word to try and stop an automated bruteforcing script. GMAIL ISN'T BLOCKING YOUR 3RD PARTY MAIL NOTIFIER JUST YOU FOR BEING STUPID!
GMail's profit comes from ads. If automated login were allowed, people would be able to read their mail without browsing the ads. How then would you expect them to finance their services?
How do they log into their gmail account?
Why is it that companies don't like a third party to add value to the company's product? It's praise, it's free, and it makes your product more useful, for dog's sake!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
This article appears to be nothing more than speculation on the part of some disgruntled third party app user who, for some reason beyond me, is annoyed that a *BETA* service is changing things up a bit. It doesn't even have a link to a real news story to back it up. Slashdot, you should be ashamed for approving this crap, it does nothing but tarnish your name.
Here Google is offering a FREE email service that provides generous storage space, and you guys are all ready starting to demonize the company becuase they are a powerful public company which dominates its market.
For a service freely provide to you, I have little sympathy to even listen to your complaints, much less your ridiculous sense of outrage.
Personally, I find Google's gmail notifier annoying since it sits in my taskbar and doesn't have popup notification
I use Google's official Gmail notifier and I like it alot better than the firefox extension I used to use. It does feature popup notification, so I don't know what they were referring to. The only difference is you dont have to have a browser open and you're not going to get in trouble for using it, which I think is a benefit.
You're free to use any third-party mail notification software you'd like!
Just, not with Gmail. (You saw that coming, huh?)
I find it a bit hard to believe that people are complaining about a FREE SERVICE. Holy jeez, man, just ruin it for the rest of us, why don't cha?
People shouldn't be too quick to hack up their own solutions to something that is still in BETA.
There probably is very good reasons for them blocking it.
I have no doubts they will eventually have a developer API written for Gmail, like they do for other things on their site.
There's also damn good reasons to word verification filters -- brute force attacks.
"Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?"
Ummm, no. Next?
back in my day we used to have to _dial_ in at 300 baud to a barely graphical service called juno for our email.. we didn't get no fancy browser.. we didn't get the letters up on the screen as we typed it.. and this was an improvement from the BBSs and gopher / telnet logins at teh libraries.. and we LIIIIKEEEED it.. yeah, see?
pm
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
Not if your e-mail is Google's property. Google has every right to do whatever they want with their property. Anybody stupid enough to use a so-called "free" e-mail provider for anything serious deserves what they get.
Beta.
Maybe they're worried about Pop Goes the GMail, which provides a POP3 interface to a Gmail account. This is a real threat to them because if you use it you don't see any of the ads.
The service is still in Beta, if you have been a member for a while you would of seen new features added as they go.
I would expect to see it change more until it is for general release. After that you can all shout about it being unfair if they change it or not.
We all know Google has been deemed to be the best positioned company to compete with Microsoft. The big fear of course is that MS will use their desktop monopoly to blur the barrier between the offline and online worlds and make sure their offerings overtake Google in market share terms.
Now, take a look at these videos (http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/productinfo/co nceptvid/default.aspx) and you'll see that Longhorn will have this standard pop-up notification API that can be used by applications to inform the user of events. It is used prominently in these demos to show email reception.
Naturally, I would expect this to work with Exchange and possibly Hotmail (but what if Outlook/Outlook Express use it... See below), but not with Gmail.
Why is this important? Because if Gmail takes over the Web mail market, which could very well happen by 2006 given their good feature set and experience with applications at this scale, users will become accustomed to this functionality. Google will fiercely market the notifier applet to their users and everyone will have it, and they won't care less when the Longhorn applet can't notify them about new messages in their Gmail. And considering how many people I know who only have a Web mail account, I think this would allow Google to prevail by meshing and extending their user experience right into their desktops.
Then again, given that they're thinking of implementing POP access and that MS mail clients may as well use this feature, this may all be a moot point...
The revolution will not be televised.
Don't forget Google didnt trademark gmail (although others did) so the chances of them losing gmail.com are pretty high, so i wouldnt get too attached to that gmail address just yet (you did notice the beta disclaimer right ?)
I don't really get this rant. First of all, there's no word identification filter in the login process. Second, if he doesn't like gmail notifier, don't use it. Thirdly, I highly doubt the changes are solely to disturb the third party tools. More likely, they're working on improvents (which shouldn't come as a surprise since it's still in beta).
A bit OT here, but yahoopops gives pop3 access to yahoo. (I am not in anyway connected with said product / developer / company ...)
What a typical dumbass open source remark.
You joined a free service and are now pissed off that you have to follow their rules.
waaaa waaaa waaaa
go fuck yourself and use some other email system if you don't like your gmail.
Maybe there are legitimate reasons for doing this. If Google fears that GMail's 1GB storage space could be used as a warez haven, they may have good reason for locking out automated tools.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
My tutorial on checking gmail status in gkrellm still works flawlessly.
Gmail has not published a offical api yet to access there webmail.
/. servers if everyone tried to post at the exact same time, They would slow to a crawl..
Right now these third party apps work by logging into the gmail account and pulling up the records, its just like you going to the webpage and logging in. This requires there system to access and cache every message in your inbox.
Imaging what would happen to the
This is what they are trying to prevent, thousands of third party checkers slowing down there system. I would be willing to bet once they have there gmail API stablized they will publish something like they have for the google search API, allowing third party programs to PROPERLY check the system without using excess resources.
Personal Website
"Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email?"
Of course you can, get a server, or a traditional POP/IMAP server, and whatever third party software you want to use!
"Personally, I find Google's gmail notifier annoying since it sits in my taskbar and doesn't have popup notification"
Mine pops up a little box when there is new e-mail, it gives the subj, from, and a bit of the text too, not in a pop-up, but right on the taskbar, so it's not in the way, but clear and easy to read/use. Very awesome. So I'm not sure which version you are using, but mine works great. It's like thunderbird, but thunderbird says "x new e-mails for blahblah@blahblah.com" and that's cool, but this is really awesome.
Is this "news for nerds" or "gossip from idiots"? There's no word-identification for logins. And Gmail notifier is made by Google, it's not even third-party! Can you stop posting crap before you RTFA? Oh wait, there wasn't even an article this time. Sigh.
*blinking cursor*
1) Gmail Notifer DOES have popups of new messages 2) There is no word verifying system. Only if you mistype your password multiple times it will do this. No biggy. 3) All my 3rd party apps still work. 4) If Google's Gmail Notifier can login correctly, why can't a third party app do it the same way? 5) It's BETA, things change. Get used to it.
Gmail currently doesn't have ads, but as far as I know they plan to have them. See a screenshot of Gmail.
i can't believe this pap gets modded up. e-mail you write is their property, huh? where did you learn this?
> Personally, I find Google's gmail notifier annoying since it sits in my taskbar and doesn't have popup notification
Lies. Gmail notifier has a popup notification, which includes the sender, subjet, and a snippet of the first sentance or so of the email.
Stupid like a fox!
> Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third > party software to check my email? Sure, you're free to use whatever third-party software you want, so long as it is made by Google. Is your cookie starting to crumble?
Ah, the conspiracy theories that fly around on slashdot.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
This is another example of "deep linking" access being controlled by the target after publishing the object. When publishing an API, exposing it to callers in the public, you are accepting the risk of unexpected callers. If you want to control who/what calls your API, you have to control the callers from the beginning, via some class or individual access control, and enforce restrictions on members of those allowed access.
--
make install -not war
It might not be the third party checkers they are aiming to block so much as the apps that take GMail and put it in a local inbox, or do stuff like forward from Hotmail to GMail, or do other "non-standard" things to GMail.
Google is trying to make a webapp, I can almost understand them wanting to keep users from using local mailer apps.
(I have a GMail account, I don't use it becaaause. . . . I like quick local access!)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
First, Gmail's notifier DOES popup to notify you. It even gives you a synopsis of the email, in the popup. Awesome.
Second, submitter would likley be among the fist to complain to Gmail, if his account was duped by a 3rd party notifier.
Third, Gmail's notifier does not require a browser window to be open.
Finially, your comment that they may restrict which browsers can access Gmail is simply flame bait. I can't believe this was put on the front page.
Go Gmail.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
- Gmail could offer a checkbox in the logon screen (a parameter to pass to the input form) that says in effect "show NEW email only".
- Alternatively, they could show the list of new emails along with the captcha, so that third-party notifiers would have the info they need without requiring the heavy load
- Google could publish an API for third-party notifiers to register the IP address:port pair to which the user wants a new mail notification to be sent, converting from a polling to message-based mechanism.
These would be good things to do with software during beta-testing...like now.[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
My third-party Gmail notifier works fine. I use Gmail Notifier 0.3.3 extension for FireFox. A few weeks ago, Google changed something in the login process that broke an older version of the extension, but as of the version I'm using, it works fine.
Sounds like FUD to me.
Transistors and Beer!!
I NEVER want any kind of notifier popup on my screen. I'd rather have an unobtrusive little indicator on the menu bar or dock.
Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?
We have since the initial launch. Konqueror still doesn't work.
"doesn't have popup notification"
Since I and many who have previously commented get pop-up notifications for our emails, we can only assume that you get no email except spam (which Gmail is filtering) and that is really your problem.
As for the rest, go make your tinfoil hat and step aside.
Jim Harry
Has anyone considered the possibility that the reason they're blocking these notifiers isn't because they have a problem with the idea, but rather there isn't a standard upon which they've settled on?
What I mean is, Slashdot bans people when they abusively pull RSS feeds too often, and ask people to only pull RSS once every 30 minutes, and no more often than that. It's possible that these programs are pinging the crap out of the server, essentially DDOS'ing the sytem with mindless queries every few seconds to every few minutes. If the notifiers only queried once every half hour, there would be no issue, but hen people would find it useless since there would be up to a half hour delay on being notified of new mail.
I think therein lies the crux of the matter.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
i didnt see it, i logged out and back in, didnt have to do any text ID
e to the pi i plus one equals zero
I haven't seen this login-word-recognizing thing. Or do you mean when you sign up, you have to fill it in? 'Cuz that would make a hell of a lot more sense.
get it here - first come - first serve ...
http://www.fundisom.com/free-gmail.php
5 invitations to give.
and if you manage to catch one and feel like saying thanks - there's that fat & ugly ad you might want to have a look at ...
Where the hell are these invites coming from? I feel so unloved. I'm a Google user. Devout. And yet I can't get any gmail love.
*sigh*
I have to say, it's mainly curiosity, but they're such an innovative company... I'm interested to see what this mythical beast of gmail actually is like.
Even if google incorporated word identification in their login (and they didn't), that wouldn't block third party email notifiers. Your email notifier has a person to use as a resource. You.
Your email notifier would just have to ask you to identify the word in the png every so often. Barely even inconvenient.
But they didn't do that anyway. Whatever.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
It's all about Google's Business model. They need to show you advertisments to help pay for the storage space, bandwidth, and development. They want you to log in and check your mail manually. Everytime an automated tool checks your mail for you they lose advertising potential and their stats of how many hits they get per second/hour/day are skewed. Being able to reliably tell their customers how many people are seeing their ads probably drove most of that.
Fscking Microcrap lockin proprietary bastar.. uh, oh it's google?...
Complete load of unsubstantiated FUD!
Yeah, not only is the Google Office Suite better and more stable than MS Office; the GoogleOS is finally ready for prime time.
Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email?
If you don't like their policies, they'll refund your money.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
while many sites ignore it under certain laws (at least here) I beleive sites must be made accessible for all, including blind or partially sighted users.
for this requirement to be met i believe essential images etc. are required to contain alt/decription tags so that a blind user knows what an image is present through the use of text -> speech software etc.
how does this work with the Word Identification system? by its very nature it is designed to stop a computer program reading the image and thus would make text->speech impossible and the site 100% inaccessible for blind users (and thus illegal under UK law?)
what BS. how do you come to the conclusion that they changed the login protocol to exclude third party notification tools?
1. why should they?
2. it's beta. they changed their login scheme, so what? (it was a bit strange anyway..)
3. you are wrong. google notifier pop's up when new mails arrive.
conclusion: is there nothing important going on to post such badly invastigated zero news to slashdot?
PAT
SEO Test: TIGI und SEBASTIAN - Online Shop - V
feel your pain buddy... so I sent you an invite... ;-)...
The version of Gmail Notifier (from Google) that I'm using supports popup notifications. I don't know what sort of acid the article writer is on.
No. You should not be able to use whatever tool you want to check your mail. You should be able to use whatever tools they want you to use to check it.
Why?
Because it's their service. You're not paying for it, they're giving it to you, thus, they can restrict what you may or may not do with it.
Don't like it?
Don't use gmail.
...and not a bunch of FUD, here is a legitimate reason for blocking 3rd party notifiers. If everyone is free to develop their own apps, they could run into similar problems as sites serving rss feeds. As it is now, any damn fool can write themself an aggregator, and as a result many do not work as they are supposed to. Instead of only checking for changes every hour or so, some allow the user to check for updates every minute. As a result of that, the aggregators end up forming a DDOS attack on the server hosting the feed. If Google controls the notifiers for gmail, they can ensure that they do not suffer similar problems.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
I think that numbski is getting to the heart of the issue, not waffling about "well, it's only a free service" or "well, it's only a beta." One other thing, I haven't run into the word verification during logon yet, so it must be an every now-and-then thing.
Shameless self promotion
When you PAY for an email service.. remember Gmail is free...
Until you start paying, quit bitching..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
that's awesome. :) It's times like this the cynical, immature, irreverent, annoying banter of the usual /. thread washes away and I remember that this is a community.
:)
*cough*
The Gmail Notifier 0.3.3 plugin for Firefox is working for me just fine, so if they're actually trying to block third party notifiers, they aren't doing a very good job...
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
-full of salty heartfelt tears. Consider yourself lucky for even using GMAIL. I hear all about how wonderful or how hard it is to use GMAIL.
A quick check to GMAIL.com and I find HO HO! It's still BETA! Anybody that is just feeling stripped of their moral rights by loosing 3rd party notification; Remember shmucks like me whole are quietly waiting until until a 1 gig inbox is an actual reality.
I got an email from Hotmail staff saying that I was going to get my hotmail account bumped up to 100+ megs in a few weeks. Well so much for that false hope... and then.. I hear about how not having email notification from 3rd party vendors. Oh cry me a river and make it deep.
You don't like what Google is doing, give your account to somebody who DOES and build your own damn IMAP server out of all those 486's that are animating your christmas lights to ABBA.
Err. Google is pitting their not-inconsiderable technological DOOM COCK against efforts to "make your own solution". That's the whole point.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
To hell with GMAIL. Geeez. Its JUST a stupid mailbox. Gigs are cheap these days. Yahoo offers a mailbox without nearly the hassle.
GMail only begins to display the image after 8 consecutive failed logins.
This is to prevent brute force attacks.
Nothing to see here, move along....
If they offered it for Macs (this goes for Linux users as well, even if I'm not one).
Until then, I'll use 3rd party clients (like gCount, GmailStatus, and Firefox's Gmail Status Extension) because it's the only game in town.
Google has now taken it one step further and created a word-identification script filter as part of the login process.
I have a gmail account, and that is simply not true. Do you mean as the sign-up process? Because that is standard practice and a good idea.
MSN and AIM both have advertisements on them, maybe GMAIL wants to take advantage of the same thing? The more people using the official client, the more people get advertisements, and the more money google makes.
Anyone know of a popup email notifier that's designed to run in the KDE or Gnome taskbars? I've been looking around for one and can't seem to find anything.
I am MuchTall
Rights are inherent to human existence. The US Bill of Rights is a way of saying what the government explicitly cannot do, as those restrictions were very important to the original founders. There were also many who did not want a Bill of Rights, for the reason that people (like you) would get stupid and think that the rights stated are the only ones you have. Like many people before you, you get the entire idea of rights completely wrong.
yeah... something like that ;-)
I haven't noticed the word verification yet, but this could be helpful to curtail attempts with having programs trying to crack passwords.
Where on earth did the author get the idea that:
A) That there IS a word logon system currently implemented.
B) That said word logon system was to block third party systems from interoperating with Google.
Finally, why was this put on Slashdot when there is absolutely no link to any article whatsoever to backup the few sentences that make up this story? Since when is some guy's short four sentence oppinion the ENTIRE story, without giving any examples whatsoever?
I made a post like a week ago in an mIRC scripting forum explaining how it can be done. (Even though my post is oriented towards mIRC scripting, it could very well be done in other scripting/programming languages).
I paste my post below for the sake of preventing a possible "minor slashdotting":
---------
Am I the only person on the internet that just doesn't give a flying fuck about gmail? :P
Really, they're probably doing this to maintaine *some* control over the product while it's in beta.
It might also control the dorks that think they're so important they have to set it to check every minute.
PAT
SEO Test: TIGI und SEBASTIAN - Online Shop - V
"Don't be lame" to their corporate motto.
Anyone who has this much free time on their hands to whine and bitch about what Gmail does is a loser. Gmail is free. Read the terms and conditions. Shut the fuck up. Gmail is slick and I am glad I got an invite.
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
...to locking out third party apps is to work with those making the apps.
Third party products likely cause excessive loads: ask people not to check their email too frequently (that's what Northwestern did when I was checking my mail every 5 minutes with Eudora) then ban belligerent accounts.
Assume that the offical gmail notifier creates less load per request than 3rd parties: open up your API and third party apps will use this too (it's probably easier to program anyway).
Loss of ad revenue: require third party apps to displace one ad everytime a pop up notification is displayed. This would be no more intrusive than the ads in gmail itself since you'd only see the ad when you do have email (which is consistent).
Gmail is still in beta: perhaps a lock-out is best until gmail is officially released. Then standards shouldn't change so google could be play "nice".
That said, Google can do whatever they want. You don't like it, find a better service.
Disclaimer: I don't have gmail and am relying on my intuition. If you think I should, send an invite to: jd0g85 at yahoo dot com
There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death.-Asimov
I came across this link 2 days back. Instead of all these gmail notifiers, just implement IMAP and be done with it.
The FAQ on that page makes for an interesting read.
IMAP for Gmail
This is the actual incident you'll be able to look back at and say "and then google became just like microsoft".
Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email?
It's called "don't use gmail if you don't like the terms".
Why the fuck does everyone think they can do whatever they want with things they choose to use? You don't like the way gmail works? Don't fucking use it you stupid wanker. Quit being a bitchy little cunt and go get a regular e-mail account for Christ's sake. It's not that fucking complicated.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I want IMAP and POP too. The faq is what made me sign the petition.
.
.
I tried using pop goes gmail but it was too buggy.
After reading the imap q-a on that google.logenv.org page, I took a look at the link to the pop vs imap and frankly pop sucks in comparison. Didn't know yahoo offered only pop3.
I've got a handful of Invites available again.... Please email me at: bigwavedave[at]gmail.com.
I have 3. If you want one, reply below with the name and email to send it to.
IMAP for google
.
.
Maybe Google should just ban ones that ping too frequently then, instead of all of them!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
RTFP[ost] you stupid AC, he was talking about Yahoo!'s instant messaging service, not Gmail!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I know some people who were working on adding ICQ compatibility to their product. They cancelled it after getting a cease and desist letter from AOL. I have since stopped using ICQ and AIM and will never use them again.
Are you seariously suggesting that Google, the service of choice for internet searches, doesn't have other appropriate techniques for handling user-load? I don't buy that.
What about security concerns? I'm not a programmer, but I assume a gmail checker needs a password from the user, does it not? Maybe they want to prevent someone from writing some password grabbing backdoor in an email checker...I mean, think of the number of targets that would use Gmail once it goes fully public. The general public on reading "gmail passwords compromised" wouldn't get that it was a third party issue, but associate it with Google. By providing such a service themselves, and restricting others' ability to do so, they retain control. Smart of them if you ask me, so long as it's not bloated, which it doesn't appear to be.
If you want to know if you have any mail, log in and see. If you need to know as soon as message come in, leave it logged in. (If you are running an OS that pukes to have more then two programs open at once, or which makes it a pain in the ass to do that, then switch to one that doesnt)
Email is *NOT* an 'instant' (aka synchornous) form of communication, its asynchronous. Cripes.
Google has now taken it one step further and created a word-identification script filter as part of the login process.
/. homepage.
This is true, if you consider mis-typing your password 5 times part of your normal "login process", otherwise, it still works like it always did, as the word identification script does not kick in until after you have mis-typed your password 5 times (seriously! go try!)
Personally, I find Google's gmail notifier annoying since it sits in my taskbar and doesn't have popup notification
Thats great and all except it DOES have pop up notification (not only does it popup, but you can right click the google icon on your tray and have it "tell you again")
Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email?
YES, you should be free to use whatever third party software to check YOUR (POP3/hosted/payed for) email. However, Google is also free to NOT allow you to do so with your free gmail account. There's nothing to argue about, if you don't like it, dont use it.
Will we be seeing controls on browsers that can view gmail next?
yes
Why was this article even posted to slashdot? There werent even links to outside sources (besides Gmail itself). This is just one guy writing up some stupid (wrong) comments, and it's on the freekin
How do you ban some but not others ?
We all know that you can forge whatever browser headers you want. So the easiest thing is to put some picture recognition into the login process. Software still has a problem with that
While the software is in Beta i'll certainly cut them a break.
But the Google founders are fond of saying, "Do no Evil." Blocking 3rd party and accessory software is certainly creeping tolds Evil.
I ran into this when trying to log in from a cyberCafe. I had to keep on typing in silly words from their turing test until it let me in.
I should have the "right/power" to have a 3rd party or some software I hacked together to log in and do what ever.
[$$$-wise, it doesn't matter to me if the software/service is free or not, it's certainly Ad supported, which like TV doesn't equal Free.. I just doesnt' cost money...]
http://www.hawknest.com/
I just logged in with no change at all in the login process. Did google change something back, or are we getting upset by vapors?
What they really want is for third party clients to change the way they check for new messages.
Look, the original thing that they had offered no easy way for a client to check for messages. So they created the Gmail notifier. Along with it, they created a low bandwidth simple way to check for messages. The Gmail notifier doesn't actually check the HTML version of the page. It pulls something down that is much simpler and less bandwidth/CPU intensive on their end.
By breaking the old way of doing it, they're forcing these apps to change what they do in order to work. Most likely, these apps will *copy* what the gmail notifier program does to check mail. And that's likely fine with Google. Hurts them no more than if the person was using the real notifier, in that case.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
You know what? I don't really care, when I hear about how a party sucked that I wasn't invited to.
I hope that Gmail crashes and burns, and the whole IPO dotbombs, for the simple reason that I wasn't invited to have a Gmail account.
I've been in complete support of everything Google has ever done, but the way they handled Gmail totally sucked, and now they can rot in hell for all I care.
"Recently, Google's gmail service has attempted to change login protocols to block third-party gmail notifiers that alert you to new email."
So, the two million byte question is when will people accept the fact that Google is just as "evil" as half the other companies out there despite its professed black sheep good-guy policy? Right here, we have Google striving to lock 3rd parties out of its email client, something universally hated when it come to MSN and Yahoo IM's, while Google itself is happily absorbing as many 3rd party features into it's core service as possible ala Windows. Hell, Google is a quasi-dictionary now as well as advertising service and potentially an online store front for ecommerce in the near future. Even there IPO was rigged in order to put them in the best position possible by feeding off wildly speculatory and inflated stock... At least until they realized the market wasn't going to play that game.
Personally I have no problem with this. Business is business. But I'm just wondering when people will take the blinders off and realize Google is just another MSN, Yahoo or Windows, and not the cool counter e-culture phenomenom masses worship.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
gmail invites, i have 6 of them. email me: Sukura @ gmail . com yada, no spaces. Post & reply here, that you're taking one & send me at gmail, your email addy for reply.
neither is Apple.
They are companies, and they like to make money and have power.
I'm sorry you now have no friends.
Google is deliberately trying to lock out third party apps. Much like some other companies we know.
Why does google think it should be immune from people using its service they way they like.
You may not mind giving up control, you pussy little scrotum-licker, but don't insult people when they try to get some power back.
And, it comes with most Linux distros.
Here is a tutorial on how to do it.
You ban whatever IP is accessing too often, just like Slashdot does. The goal is to stop the people from abusing bandwith, not stop people using a particular program.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
to check my Gmail and then I found I was locked out of my account, and I tried the forgot password option and it told me I did not have a secondary email set (but I did, my Yahoo one).
I emailed Google's Gmail abuse address to ask them if my account was hijacked and if I can get back in, but they have not yet responded.
I had set my Yahoo Groups to send messages to my Gmail account. So I can better read and search the messages. Is this some sort of violation of the ToS, because if it is, I've missed that.
Google still has not contacted me back, and I find that very rude.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Fair enough. But why don't they just publish an API for 3rd party notifiers to adhere to?
:)
If a notifier is requesting the status more often then it's allowed, then ban the ip for x minutes.
Last time i checked there were no google notifiers for anything but windows.
Give me an alternative or publish the APIS!
Criminals use telephones; all phones should be tappable without your knowledge.
Terrorists might use encryption. That should definitely be banned.
Drug smugglers smuggle stuff in condoms in their rectum. Cavity searches should be mandatory on travelling overseas.
Your girlfriend cheats on you... yeah.. sorry to tell you that.
Typing too fast: The goverment does not have any rights except those specifically listed in the constitution.
There are no ads in the inbox... just when you look at actual mails.
Spine World
and just how long would you ban the IP for ?
Exactly what point would that provide. You would then have a beta tester who couldn't test your product instead of cutting a 3rd party use.
That's exactly why Patrick Henry, among others, was *opposed* to the Bill of Rights - because people like you would say it was a complete list of rights, rather than a list of minimal guaranteed rights among many other rights.
What it boils down to is that you have whatever rights you have the ability and willingness to demand. What _that_ generally boils down to is that you have whatever rights your culture grants you. It is a bad, bad move as a culture for us to decide people have some minimal set of rights that can be enumerated somewhere - instead, keep pushing the envelope of your rights until it includes everything that doesn't hurt someone else.
That said, I don't believe we have a right to force Google to make it easy for 3rd party mail notifiers to work. It did miff me until someone pointed out how their notifier could be much more efficient. I wouldn't be surprised to see them solidify the notifier API and make it a public release after they have tested it for a while.
PAY FOR IT.
use of all caps authorized by lameness filter
That's a very good thought, and considering they tossed out more invites recently... perhaps there is a connection. It wont work for very long though, just look at yahoo, msn, and aim for how easy it is to keep 3rd party programs out. They've tried and tried, yet trillian and other alternatives keep on staying on top of things.
System specs: masturbatory ego thrust 100 terahertz processor++
I won't plug a company by name, but starting in September (thankfully prompted by the Gmail/Hotmail storage wars) my existing provider will begin offering me 2GB storage at no additional cost.
...to hosting their own mail servers, or to real providers.
I also get:
- IMAP/POP3 and SMTP over SSL.
- Sever-side SIEVE filtering scripts (similar to postfix)
- Sever-side spam filtering
- Email host for my own @domain.
For $40/year, this is everything I could want.
I don't have to see any advertisements, and I still have the option of webmail for when I am on a public terminal.
Once Gmail is turned loose to the masses, it will lose much of its geek appeal. Current Hotmail users will filter in, and geeks will filter out
What's $40/year? At worst (depending), that is something like 2 hours of labor.
Well, I was working on the assumption that the goal was to cut server abuse, not 3rd party tool use. Obviously, if Google is doing this because they want control or something, rather than just to save bandwidth, then that's different.
As far as blocking a beta tester, they could have a progressive thing: first block: 10 minutes, second block 1 hour, third (and subsequent) blocks: 24 hours. Also, they could send an email (and/or error message) explaining the problem, and telling the user to fix his program settings.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
..you got a gmail account?
Got any invites?
"Shouldn't I be free to use whatever third party software to check my email?"
Sure. You're free to use any software you want. And Google is free to not allow you to use any software with their service that you don't want. And since you're not paying them anything, you don't have much leverage to get them to change their policy, do you?
It's a free service. Take it or leave it.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
There versus their.
Eh? How did you set things up?
I have a number of filters set up to place new emails in various folders, and then to archive them ("skip the inbox").
It most certainly DOES show me a little "Labelname (1)" or whatever by the label whenever I have new messages in them.
The only exception to this is the "Spam" label--you just have to check that one every so often, because it doesn't show such an indicator (and it's excluded from searches by default).
I did submit feedback on that point, though--I really think it should notify us even of new spam.
At least for a normal login, there's NO word recognition filter.
Now then, when you *originally sign up* there's one, so that you cannot automatically register massive numbers of accounts.
Can someone show us exactly where this filter is?
Criminals use telephones; all phones should be tappable without your knowledge.
Ever heard about CALEA?
Terrorists might use encryption. That should definitely be banned.
Guess what Louis Freeh (and couple others of his ilk) attempted to.
See also: Jackass
Specifically: a blockhead: "You've acted like an irrational jackass and it's time you stopped"
Maybe they're working on that!
Gmail already does this. Try using opera to view your Gmail account. And no, Google is not doing this because Opera doesn't work with the site... If you use Opera and switch its user-agent line to IE or Nutscrape, Opera will be able to access your Gmail account just fine.
I'm not saying that Google doesn't have reasons for doing this.. maybe they do. But at this point in time they're actively stopping perfectly good "alternative" browsers from getting to your Gmail.
Would this be tolerated if it weren't Google? Would Microsoft get away with this?
/dev/random
Gmail is a service provided freely by Google. If they chose to disallow you from using something they do not want you to use with their service, that is their business. If you do not like that, you stop using that service or you follow what they want you to do.
It's that simple, folks.
This coming from the same whiny bastard that threatens to kill himself weekly at kuro5hin.org.
Grow some balls and do it.
Google's own Gmail Notifier does not work with Win98.. and that's what I have to run at home because of legacy apps. The FireFox notifier worked fine, until Google broke it. Beta or not, this ain't the way to win friends and influence people.
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
I have IMAP :)
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
Do no evil != we are not evil
:
by whose standards? gw's or jk's
Only do good! These are do-gooders!
Do-gooders === do-googlers.
Are you so evil that you have to make me believe
that you are not?
These guys are still in gradeschool or they want you think
they are.
Pyschology 101 Dude State University
1:Whenever someone says "trust me" you can bet your
bottom dollar that this person is not trustworthy.
2:Whenver anyone claims something about
themselves, it is false otherwise they would not need
to claim to reassure you and themselves.
dosent it?
No se vayan todavia, aun hay mas. http://www.error500.net
I'd say the idea is that they must create a customer base and show investors customer loyalty, growth, etc.
Right now their "customers" (short of Gmail) are only advertisers, which is dwarfed by Yahoo's and Hotmail's >100m registered users.
If 3rd party tools can connect to Gmail any way they please, then Yahoo and whoever could provide that feature. If only Google can do that - then sorry, pal, please install Google software that does that.
If Hotmail notifier works with their 100+m mail accounts why couldn't anyone's? Ping is not exactly a space technology.
Whatever happened to Do No evil?
M.
I haven't talked about killing myself since 2003, obviously you have not been reading recent posts on K5 or elsewhere.
If you want me dead so badly, do it yourself. I have moved on with my life and decided to live, and try and get better. I admit to making mistakes and I am trying to avoid making the same mistakes.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Run your own mailserver at home and enjoy the 40/60/80/etc/GB of disk storage you have, and use whatever you like to access it (IMAP, POP3, Web).
Then convert your Gmail account into an archive, by making your client forward all mails to it. Easy to search for stuff you think you've missed, or deleted.
What, pray tell, is "Gmail support"?
Doesn't a browser simply need to follow the HTML specification, CSS 2 (this week, at least), maybe some extra fanciness thrown in for coolness factor?
Gmail seems to be about as plain an interface as I can create with a text editor: some text, a few buttons and a drop-down listbox control, all of which is apparently pumped out by Javascript code. What fails when visiting Google mail with an Opera browser? The Javascript execution?
While you're at it, somebody explain to me why I'm supposed to get wood over Gmail? I've had an account since they started doling them out. I'm going to keep the address restricted to myself only in order to see when the junk mail starts pouring in. Like I really need *another* e-mail account to check.
Thank you.
slashdot: A failed experiment.
Sorry, others have probably already said this... The Gmail Notifier that I have (1.0.21.0) does flash a small window with a preview of new messages, and when the little window slides away the icon in the taskbar very clearly indicates new mail. If this not what the author means by 'popup notification'?
I don't understand why Google is willing to provide their email service for free, but nobody has a "right" to use the service. I can use any software I want to check my email. Why? Because I run both the client and the server. If you don't run, or even pay for the service, you have whatever rights they decide they want to give you.
http://www.geocities.com/orion_blastar/signs/punch coupon.html
Please feel free to read it and print it out and use it.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.