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Smart Cars Coming to Canada and U.S.
AgniTheSane writes "Most importantly the Smart Car looks cool. It also gets 60 mpg, is four feet
smaller than a Mini Cooper (you can park two in a standard parking spot), the
plastic panels are easily swappable and one color all the way through (so you
can't scratch the paint), the steel frame makes it safe in an accident, and you
can get it with in-dash Bluetooth (and in Europe can read and write email via
the car speakers and a microphone). The Smart car is coming to the US soon, and will cost as little as $12,000. You can read about it in
Wired or on
MSNBC, or you can go straight
to ZAP who will be
selling them in the US soon, or the smart car
website in the UK. "
These are already popular in parts of the USA.
Yanks won't give up their monstrous SUVs for these. Too insecure about their sexuality.
Provided the accident is a frontal collision with a Mercedes Benz sedan, like in the publicity video, with the Mercedes' crumple zone absorbing all the impact.
They are already here. I have seen a few driving around here already
And also it doesn't have cupholders for the giant Slurpees that you lot consume. Nor is it powerful enough to propel 250lbs of excess flab that most USians have.
Most importantly the Smart Car looks cool
It does not. What kind of funky aesthetic sense does a person have to have, to make that look cool?
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
I'd rather see smart drivers. Ones that could park one of those small cars in no more than one regular parking spot for example.
www.weberseite.at
I would definitely go for a Smart diesel so I could use biodiesel. But alas, it's petrol only for us. Meh.
"Anything that size in this country is basically SUV road kill," sneers recent New Yorker Michelle Baran.
To paraphrase Basil Fawlty, "You realise they are equipped with steering wheels?"
OK, I will buy me a tank...
;)
Eat this, SUV
For all those screaming about security - this car has been specifically designed to be safe despite it's size; to achieve this, there are certain tricks involved, eg sliding the motor under the chassis in case of a crash.
It _has_ been rigourously tested.
You know, we here in Europe do make more out of less and don't need a 2 Ton SUV to have a save car.
Advantages:
Little parking space required
Coolness of especially the cabrio version
Price and costs of ownership
Disadvantages:
Speed limit of 140 km/h (although less speeding tickets is ok)
Little storage space
Jonah Hex
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
Don't dismiss the MINI so quickly. Have you driven one? The thing handles like a go-kart. The supercharged Cooper S is an absolute joy to drive. Like BMW's, the MINI tends to attract the trendy crowd, but the hardware is definitely up to snuff.
Check the facts! http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135145948-1096715329-00 00001072-0000006372-1097324828-enm-is-bin/INTERSHO P.enfinity/WFS/mpc-en-content-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/SVC PresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsma rt-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fmodel le%2fsmartcitycoupe%2fsicherheit%2fkonstruktion%2e page
The Tritium Safety Cage goes all round the sides.
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
I live in Switzerland and had the possibility to test drive one of the two seats model.
Positive points:
- looks cool
- each passenger has a lot of room (really)
Negative points:
- automatic shift is very slow, it is dangerous and reduces confort (it brakes the car during the shift)
- the vertical construction implies rather hard suspensions, with reduced confort (you feel every bump in the road in your spine)
- noisy inside
- pricy
In Europe you can find lots of small cars that have a comparable MPG (or better km/l), have 4 seats and are cheaper.
To sum it up, coolness factor aside, I would not reccomend it.
No. This does not look cool. A Firebird looks cool. A Dodge Viper or a Ford GT looks cool. This thing looks like a golf cart with a plastic shell around it. It looks like a toy. The word "dorky" comes to mind.
In fact, before I bought one of these things I would resort to buying a motorcycle -- and I've never ridden a motorcycle in my life, but I'd learn.
How exactly? It's only 8 foot long so to be hit between the cage on the plastic only would be pretty difficult...
I'm guessing page 3 was a little too far for people to read, so I'll copy it here:
A steel frame absorbs front-end impact - no cockpit crumple. Get hit head-on, and the car collapses behind the doors near the back wheels.So there is a crumple zone, it's just behind you
Check the facts before spreading rumors and insinuations: http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135145948-1096715329-00 00001072-0000006372-1097324828-enm-is-bin/INTERSHO P.enfinity/WFS/mpc-en-content-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/SVC PresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsma rt-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fmodel le%2fsmartcitycoupe%2fsicherheit%2fkonstruktion%2e page
There's a useful term when you need to refer to Canada and the USA together: "North America".
Canadians use this more than Americans do, and there can be confusion about whether you intend to include Mexico and the Caribbean Basin, but all in all Americans underuse the term.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
They've been in Europe for a few years now, I remember seeing one about 3 years ago.
Contrary to popular belief, the UK isn't a place with a few cars, empty country roads and stuff. It has tonnes of cars, tonnes of bad drivers (not as many as the US though, our driving test is a bit more advanced) and lots of accidents.
Oddly enough, there hasn't been a revolt or outcry over SMART car accident rates being higher than average.
Of course, they are more ideal for the UK which in-town is slow to drive due to road systems developed when horses and carriages were in vogue - often narrow streets, etc. They are a good solution if you do a lot of city driving in a place like this.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be seen dead driving one. Then again, I don't do a lot of city driving.
When I first saw these released in Europe many people said that such tiny vehicles would never be released in the US because the small size made it impossible to meet US safety standards (similar reasons for the Ford Ka (no real bumpers), and Mazda 121). I'm glad to see that perhaps with some engineering creativity, we now know that is not the case . . .
In all seriousness, if two of these fit into a standard parking spot, can you double up at a meter? Does the first person in to the meter spot pay, and the second one piggybacks and adds on as necessary?
Zero to sixty in twenty seconds?
These things are going to need all the crash protection they can get. They're going to get flattened on any highway on-ramp.
In Denmark the Smart forfour 1.5L will cost you approx $39,000 - quite a long way from 12,000... - Kasper
-.-
...It is not user-serviceable without a proprietary toolset.
Jokes about comparing proprietary software to a car with the hood welded shut are very chilling if this car is the beginning of a trend.
Mart"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
'Looks like'? Maybe you should check your opinions and insinuations against the facts BEFORE you open your mouth: http://www.smart.com/-snm-0135145948-1096715329-00 00001072-0000006372-1097324828-enm-is-bin/INTERSHO P.enfinity/WFS/mpc-en-content-Site/en_EN/-/EUR/SVC PresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsma rt-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2fsmart%2fmodel le%2fsmartcitycoupe%2fsicherheit%2fkonstruktion%2e page
A colleague who is about your height, certainly over 6', has one and he loves it. No problems fitting in, so I'm not sure what you're basing this assessment on.
"There is nothing so simple that works so well that it can't be made to work better by making it more complicated" - ?
Actually, you're only morbidly obese.
Still safer than a motorcycle (yes, I ride one) and better weather protection, too. Listen: no one is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy a Smart car. I'd like to think that people are smart enough to choose the balance of safety and utility that's right for them.
That being said, I wouldn't buy a Smart. Why? Because it's too wide, and can't be used to "split" between lanes of traffic. In NYC, 9 or 10 months out of the year, a motor cycle or bicycle makes a much better "city car."
-b.
I'm an American living in Ireland, and I own a black Smart Pulse Convertible. I've never regretted it. Even disregarding the amazing fuel economy (Our other car is a Jeep Cherokee with an engine 4x the size of the Smart, and guzzles gas like nothing else), and the semi-automatic tiptronic transmission, which gives you input into gear choices like a manual but without ever having to touch a clutch, the looks of the car are actually pretty snazzy, and the Irish here seem to agree. I'll agree it can look silly, but with the top down, it really looks cool.
:)
I swear this thing is catching more glances than my neighbor's Porsche. So don't be so quick to say Americans and Irish don't like it, this Irish American loves it.
Yup...
"And also it doesn't have cupholders for giant Slurpees"
Granted, but you can park it in spaces normally available only to motorbikes, and pop into a cafe to sit down with your coffee, while the people with bigger cars continue to drive around looking for somewhere to park. (Remember it's a city car)
Even if they don't take off outside of major cities, the fact that these little cars are comparable to motorcycles in size and economy, means they will provide a badly needed alternative to in city traffic for people uncomfortable navigating a motorcycle in the city. For all practical purposes, it looks like you could park the thing on your doorstep, just like bike.
;-)
Added bonus - you stay dry, and presumably warm.
It is too bad that laws here do not better promote the use of economic vehicals such as motorbikes. My 14 year old Harley gets 50 mpg, my 3 year old Saab gets 25. Even differences such as this being routine, most places don't encourage people to utilize such economical travel and learn how to drive safely instead of just buying a bigger vault on wheels.
Perhaps the introduction of smaller and smaller cars will begin to force locales to reconsider their laws and stance on safe driving and vehciular use. Either that, or maybe smart car drivers will have to start wearing helmets to protect them from being flatted by the cell phone yapping, soccer mom with screaming kids in the Excursion.
Yes, and in Europe we don't have 18 wheel trucks. Everything is pushed around on hand carts, making the roads a much safer place.
Oh no, that was a weird dream I had. We really do have cars, vans and trucks just as big as the US and in fact they regularly travel much faster than in the US (E.g. 70Mph national speed limit in the UK, 100Kph in most of mainland Europe, faster in Germany). With similiar population sizes, and a higher population density in most of western Europe. Oddly enough people manage to drive on the roads every day without a cripling fear of being crushed to death on the motorway.
There are a few possible reasons why Americans are so paranoid about driving that I can think of. You're all naturally paranoid (Who made you that way?), American cars are generally made to a much lower and dangerous standard (Possible, but Ford are everywhere in Europe), or you're just all such terrible drivers that it's just a healthy survival instinct (In which case, learn to drive properly).
Seems pretty step. Actually I bet a golf cart gets better mileage tool.
Not that I'd ever buy one, but can't you get a fairly loaded KIA or DAEWOO for that kind of money?
I see plenty of them here in London, and they look ideal for our driving conditions. Even though I am quite tall I'd definitely consider getting a SMART car. Parking costs half as much, you can get into spots that a sedan can't, and you are much more nimble of our often congested streets. Many streets in London are single lane only and cars have to queue to pass each other.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
The article states that they will be coming to the U.S. for $20,000 as SUV's, not $12,000. The cars cost about $13,000 in Europe but do not meet U.S. emissions standards. Some companies are retrofitting the global version of the Smart car to be U.S. street legal, but these would be a minimum of $14,000 as well.
A few years later I heard things like great mileage, funky distinct design, low price, reliable, and most importantly able to park it in the tiniest of spaces.
I don't think that the SMART will ever be the cross country driving car of choice, but as a second car in the city for the 2 parent working family I think its a brilliant idea . . . Why drive a 4000 pound SUV to pick up a gallon of milk at the supermarket if you don't have to?
Here's the crash test results for MCC Smarts.
Go figure for yourself if that's safe(enough) for your. Generally -at least here in Germany- the cars are considered safe, but we don't have that many 5000lbs SUVs to crash against either...
euroncap.com
Yes, you are right. The reason is the wheelbase in SUV's is too short and they tip over very easily. The industry widened the wheelbase within the last few years so you should see a dramatic decrease in SUV fatalities.
Shit driving standards is the answer. Plus having been to the states and hired a few Usian vehicles, the handling is absymal on them. It's a bloody difficult keeping them in the right lane on a straight interstate let alone taking a gentle corner.
I would expect that the majority of the US and Canada will continue to buy more 'full on gas guzzzlers' as opposed to these not so smart cars. We've had them in Europe for a while and they really haven't made a big impact here, even with the more green and liberal thinking that we have.
Why? welll like i say, they really arent that smart. Selling cars that reduce the amount of co2 is always a worthwhile thing however you cannot substitute sensible, flexible and economically sound public transport policy for the automotive industry's equivalent of the 'light/lite' cigarette. Not that most of the tax payers in the western hemisphere care anyway, that's why we still buy and love the freedom of our cars.
Make no mistake, car sharing and long distance travel is pretty much unviable in these things so understandably they only really get bought in urban areas. Mostly smart cars are seen and viewed as a posher and wankier version of the scooter. Mercedes would be thrilled if everyone in the city bought one; I'm not so sure our planet would be
Cool? not...
Disclaimer: I'm not a 'manc', I'm Scottish
my other sig is written in brainfuck
The moms love the SUVs coz they feel safe - problem is, when they hit a Smart even slighly, they kill the occupant. Then they get a fine :)
This is not a signature.
" It's cute, tiny, and plastic. The kids love it "
Only if they hate their parents as there is no where for them to get into this 2 seater so they cannot go out with mum and dad anymore. This is not a family car so kids are not a part of the picture. This is for stupid young idiots who like to look 'different' and end up all looking the same because they all go around in the latest fashion. If you want an economical family car get a diesel VW Passat estate which is several times bigger and just as economic (as well as a lot safer).
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
There things have been available in europe for a few years, and I've observed that their true reason for being is to be given away as the first prize in all kinds of stupid contests and quiz shows.
a very very cool small car with not so bad performances.y .jsp?story=548638
http://motoring.independent.co.uk/road_tests/stor
They're a good idea, but let down by the execution. Add in the relatively high price (you can get a 'real' car for 50% less) and you can see why the only buyers are marketing/media types, estate agents (realtors) etc etc.
Having seen a couple wobble their way down a dual carriageway too i'm not sure they're that safe either.
It is cool seeing them parked sideways at the end of a parking bay though. The cool factor evaporates as soon as you're spotted in one. A friend took one for a drive from a garage he worked at - it was the 'turbo' version and I swear the engine could have fit in his girlfriends handbag. But to fit three of us in there I was wedged with my feet in the air and the engine was not happy. Never had public transport seemed so appealing.
The car you drive should be bigger than the coffin you plan to be buried in. If you want to have to be creamated, go ahead and drive in a deathbox.
Also, with 20 seconds to get to 60mph I can imagine it being a nuisance to other cars, and a hazard if it really needs to get out of the way of something bigger. Being so small, it is also probably hard to see in the rear or side view if it is in the right location at the time.
Go ahead and drive those things, just don't force your decision on everyone else.
I need every one of those 250lbs of flab you insensitive clod.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
Its a "smart" car, can be bought seperately from your main car and extremely useful in big cities.
I know guys driving Porsche also having one of these for everyday stuff.
It may be branded "smart" but don't be tricked, its a Mercedes and Swatch of Switzerland joint project.
Compared to Toyota etc, that car's (especially GT model) may surprise you in terms of speed etc but especially handling AND safety.
Open the motor, you will see Mercedes. Small but it is still a Mercedes with Swatch design.
Many years ago, Volvo found out that a strong, rigid box may protect the car from catastrophic damage, and yet kill the passengers. The g-forces from a collision can kill you while the car body stays intact.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
How I miss my Subaru Justy, not quite as efficient as this, but a great little car. I would get 50mpg+ if I drove on the interstate and occassionally got behind a semi.
meh
The smart has been engineered to reduce g-forces, teh seats deform, the ridgid metal structure buckles at points, the drive-train slides under the car. Seat-belts are equipted with automatic tighteners than limit motion and release it slowly to reduce g-forces. It emparts g-forces on the passengers at the rate equal to a vehicle twice its size.
Also it can hit 80mph without too much of a problem, plus the electronic limiter can be removed by a hack.
As for the 19 sec 0-60mph that is due to the automatic transmission that is considered crap. It pauses for a second or two while changing gears. If you have the manuel version, (which the automatic can be turned into with the push of a button) the delay can be greatly reduced.
This is due to there being no clutch, it is computer controlled.
Keep the box it came in.
qntm.org
To complain about people not understanding Linux or open source would be entirely hypocritical of this community, with all the posts about the lack of safety of Smart Cars posted here! This is one of the safest vehicles in the world.
Lighter = safer
Everything else aside, this vehicle is safer because it's lighter. There is no substitute for a lack of mass when your vehicle becomes a ball of plastic and metal momentum; the more weight, the more force is required to curb that momentum, so to speak. Force, in this case, typically translates into rolling, or crumpling. Modern vehicles do lots of both, particuarly SUV's. So bear in mind, mass is an inherent evil in vehicle safety.
Solid cage = safer
Second, this little critter has a solid cage that can withstand the problem I just mentioned - its own mass. Most vehicles will crumple under their own mass at moderate speeds. At 65 km/h, head-on this car will walk away mostly unscathed, and the passenger will only have minor injuries.
Lateral weakness = myth
From the side, the risk of being "T-boned", or laterally impaled, is highly overrated. The solid beam connecting the rear wheels, the axle, and the similarly reinforced front wheels, in such close proximity pretty much insure that if you are hit, unless it's a motorcycle, two of your strongest and most reinforced points of impact (the tires) are involved in the crash. Furthermore, there is a metal cage surrounding you that can easily withstand substantial impact.
Run-over = myth
The risk that it will be "run over" are also highly overrated. If a big vehicle hits a smart car, it becomes a wedge, pushing the larger vehicle into the air so that the larger vehicle can dissipate its energy on other things, like concrete, pavement and telephone poles.
See, eg. Smart and Tough, The National Post, 6/11/04
Arguing that this car isn't safe is being on the wrong side of competence, akin to arguing the superiority of Microsoft Windows' security. There may be valid points, but for the most part, you're just wrong.
(Not to sound too cynicial, but I think it's a valid point, and hypocricy is a peeve)
I remember Andy Rooney doing a piece on the Smart Car and seeing him with about two or even three feet of headroom when he drove it around. Granted, he's probably pretty short and hunckbacked, but I bet I would have no trouble fitting in it, and I barely fit into my Toyota Levin with the seat all the way back. It's like a grown-up trying to ride a big wheel if you have to carry four passengers and have to bring the seat up.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Smart cars are one thing, but how about smart drivers?
Drivers seem to be getting dumber, and ruder, by the day.
So, I'd like smart cars that pull over to the curb and turn themselves off when the driver does something stupid, like turning right across three lanes of traffic from the far left lane, or speeding along the right shoulder on an Interstate to pass, or speeding up to go through a yellow light, or....
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I tried the download, but it timed out between the dash and front seat.
Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
you have no idea what you are talking about. the smart is one of the safest cars around, believe me, you're safer in there than in any SUV. also, they are FUN to drive.
"Even the name is an insult because only a total moron would buy one when you can get a kick ass used car with lots of features for less than half of the price."
And spend the rest of that money fixing the things that fall off your bargain used-car, bringing the total up to about the same.
Plus, the smart car doesn't devalue. Look at the second-hand ones. You can sell it for exactly the same price you bought it for, how's that for free car-hire?
We really do have cars, vans and trucks just as big as the US and in fact they regularly travel much faster than in the US (E.g. 70Mph national speed limit in the UK, 100Kph in most of mainland Europe,
You mean, more like 130kph on motorways in mainland Europe (at least in France and Austria, last time I was there)? US speeds are slower, but not that much slower - 55 mph is gone, all states have changed to 65 mph or more, and the 65 mph limits are routinely disregarded. Traffic on the NJ Turnpike seems to move at 80-90 mph in good weather.
States that are mostly rural have even higher speed limits - generally 75 mph. Until recently, Montana had no speed limit, and motorists were instructed to drive at a "reasonable and prudent" speed. Unfortunately, that law was struck down by a state court as being too vague, since the offense of speeding wasn't adequately defined, so Montana set a limit of 75 mph.
-b.
Euro NCAP is a safety testing organisation.
r atings/rat ings.php?id1=1
i a/phase7b/mc c_smart_2000.jpg
http://www.euroncap.com/
Front and side impacts:
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_
Picture:
http://www.euroncap.com/downloads/med
You don't drive a Jeep do you? Or a pre 1997 car?
Deleted
Yes, and in Europe we don't have 18 wheel trucks. Everything is pushed around on hand carts, making the roads a much safer place.
It wasn't an entirely stupid assumpted. Big 18-wheelers aren't necessarily needed everywhere. The biggest cargo trucks I've seen here in Japan are about the size of an American garbage truck, and even those take up the whole road, sometimes with both tires riding the white lines. Besides that, most stuff is transported here in 4-cylinder city trucks and mini-trucks.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
>>problem is, when they hit a Smart even slighly, they kill the occupant.
There's an upside, however. In the event of a collision, the Smart folds conveniently into the shape of a coffin.
so you should see a dramatic decrease in SUV fatalities
Oh well, it was nice whilel it lasted
Who cares about their teeth? Suck on a few mints, keep the mouth closed and you have a vision of an angel.
No amounts of mints or keeping the trap shut will make an morbidly obese person that sexy.
Screw low fat or low carb diets. JUST EAT LESS AND EXERCISE MORE! It's that simple.
Came close to getting one of the older diesel Hummers and turning it into a rolling grease car billboard. But collecting and filtering waste vegetable oil for something that big was going to be a lot of work. One of these little cuties would be perfect.
Still a grease car Hummer would've been cool. I was going to have TELL THE SAUDIS TO CRAM IT painted on the side. Not sure painting that on a Smart car would have quite the same impact.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
First of all, thanks for mentioning Canada. It's kind of bizarre, though, to quote the fuel economy in MPG since I pay for my gas by the litre. According to one conversion, 60 MPG is 3.9 L/100km. This assumes that the MPG was quoted in US gallons and not imperial gallons. Otherwise, 4.7 L/100km (slightly more believable). About three years ago, I was in Europe for an exchange and we even did a case study on the Smart car. Any serious study came to the conclusion that the Smart was smaller, less practical and more expensive than cars with similar fuel economies. It was strictly for use in the city centre and even then, little room for things or friends. (The joke amongst us was that if you don't have any friends, by a Smart.) Yes, the size can be a serious advantage in terms of parking, but even most Euro-weenies don't like the thing it would seem.
Wow, and if you though SUVs had a crappy turning radius before...
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
It really only needs to be able to do 25mph. It's as tall as any other car and can be seen fine.
"just don't force your decision on everyone else."
WTF?
Deleted
In watching the video, its hard to determine if the crash dummy would have any legs left. It would appear not.
And spend the rest of that money fixing the things that fall off your bargain used-car, bringing the total up to about the same.
Doesn't have to be true, depends on what you buy and how touroughly you inspect it before. And even if it costs the same, you still get a lot more bang for the buck. And you don't have to be embarrassed in front of chicks.
Plus, the smart car doesn't devalue. Look at the second-hand ones. You can sell it for exactly the same price you bought it for, how's that for free car-hire?
Bullshit, it will lose just as much value as any other car. You must have pulled that "fact" out of your ass.
Many European countries already have indirect incentives.
We pay car tax every year, which, depending on what country you live in, is dependent on engine size, or the amount of pollution produced by the engine.
Also, Insurance can be expensive. I'm a 30 year-old, with a clean license, drive a car with a 1.4 litre engine, and pay 800 euros ($700?) per year. This would be a lot more if my engine was over 1.4 litres.
My mother lives in a "golf cart community" which means you can get to any place in the community with a golf cart. The only place she can't go is to Wal Mart, which is across the street and her golf cart isn't road legal, though there are some road legal golf carts.
One would be tempted to think that this car would be perfect for that situation. It would be completely safe because nobody drives about 30 - 45 mph along very scenic routes with relatively few cars. Only when she went to Wal Mart would she actually use it on the road, a 4 lane thing with a wide median, I think the speed limit is in the 45 - 50 range.
The only problem is... if she brought a friend along, where would they store the things they bought? There's barely enough room for groceries. In fact, it looks like her golf cart has more storage space than that thing, so she might as well stick with the golf cart, and get a regular car for gong to Wal Mart.
I looked all over for some indication of what might pass for a trunk, even at the brochure (link below, they pretend ask you for your email address before sending you to this link), and there spend lots of time on safety features, but no time on the interior.
So what do you do with it? You can't run errands with it, and it's probably uncomfortable for long trips. It looks sort of like a second car, or a car for people who never have to buy things in the store and bring them home, and without a back seat, there's no way you could use it if you have young children.
So I guess in some ways, this overlaps the Jeep Wrangler market - small, impractical, but fun, but even the Wrangler has a bench seat area in the back where you can put your groceries. Or maybe the bicycle market. You can carry about as much home (assuming you have a passenger) as you can on a bicycle, or - most likely - the road legal golf cart market. But those at least have 4 seats, and perhaps some extra storage space, and they don't use gas at all (I think), you charge it at home.
Also, Volkswagon has the TDI diesel engine that gets close to 50mpg highway, and something in the mid 40's in the city. So if I want fuel economy, I can get a VW, and be more comfortable to boot.
I'm not really disparaging this car, I like it - or want to like it - but don't see it as more than a "can get where I want to go and stay dry and warm in the process, unlike my bike" car. And with a $12k starting price, you'd really have to convince me why not to get a (insert budget car here) instead.
http://www.thesmart.co.uk/act_smart/brochure/downl oad.asp
For safety. All that big metal, doesn't necessarily help safety. Jeeps and one of the GM SUVs in particular did badly in the past. They seem to be improving now, but they're really still no better than other big cars.
Deleted
It has tonnes of cars, tonnes of bad drivers (not as many as the US though, our driving test is a bit more advanced)
Uhhh, I don't know about that. London has quite literally the worst drivers I've ever seen. And I live in Miami, so lord knows I see bad ones. Outside London they're not bad though, I will admit.
I'm not sure they'll catch on here because Americans do a good deal of their driving on highways, and I wouldn't be caught dead on a highway in one of them. They are very, very, very small. The pictures don't do justice to how tiny they are.
For urban driving they're pretty good though, and I can see them catching on in say Manhattan or SF or something, but I don't know if that'll make it worth selling them here.
In France I've seen traffic where the slowest lane was 150km/h (speed limit is 130km/h).
Europeans drive way faster, period.
Plenty of reasons to that one is that average age of vehicule is lower and that periodic mandatory inspection keeps moving piles of rust out of the roads.
The other reason is that European drive better, because driver license is actually hard to get, usually taking a few dozen hours of lessons before being able to pass the exam, compare that to America... (I know only about California driver licenses in fact, maybe some other state has something closer to the European system).
I'd like to know the percentage of American able to handle a manual gearing car...
Well, this was pretty topical...
I was driving home yesterday in Calgary, Alberta, and saw this tiny little vehicle stopped at a red light next to me. My first thought was "What the hell was that?" My next thought was to look at the massive SUV (sexless-upscaling-vehicle) behind it and think "mmmm, lunch..."
I used to own a Smart, I'm 5'11" and had about 8" of room above my head. Passanger and driver have heaps of room, it's only when you look over your shoulder to find the rear window that you relalise how small the car is :-)
This was a much more typical death here before the 70's. Try bouncing a '40's Ford off a tree.
I don't see this taking off either, but in the 90s the US saw a major urban renewal trend. A lot of people have moved back to the cities because the suburbs tend to be soul-destroyingly bland and boring.
Which is patently unsafe and, at least in NYC, illegal.
An excerpt from thissection of motorcycle law.
Section 1252. Operating motorcycles on roadways laned for traffic.
(b) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken.
Just thought you should know.
See these sites:o to&vehicle=79803020040825®ion=8Autonet. ca
http://www.autonet.ca/NewCars/Photo.cfm?screen=ph
and
http://www.autonet.ca/Spotlight/smart/?region=8
In the U.S. at least, there are federal (national) and often local (state) incentives in the form of cash rebates for hybrid cars. It's not unconcievable that there'd be incentives for this car as well, since it gets better gas mileage than any hybrid I know of.
You can pick out the European comments - they all think Americans drive SUVs or Minis with nothing in between. Seriously, $12,K is way too expensive - $13,K buys a Toyota Tacoma with a four-cylinder, five-speed manual. SMART cars need to start at $9,999 or somwhere in that range. SMART has a leg up in Germany (at least), where teens too young to license can still drive a SMART car. There won't be any such special treatment here in the states.
Regarding safety stats, the results of the European tests are here
Chris "Ng" Jones
cmsj@tenshu.net
www.tenshu.net
yea, the Mercedes dealerships in Ottawa just received their first batch this week.
From my experience, handling is somewhat better on Gringo cars than on European cars.
True, I had once a '73 Dodge Dart that handled like shit and was totally inadequate for its 5.2 liter V8. But one of the best cars I've ever had was a '91 Geo Prizm.
Compared to it, the Renault Clio I had the last time I went to France and Italy felt realy unsafe on the highway. Too loose steering, too sensitive to lateral winds. At the normal 130 km/h speed they drive in the shoulderless, two-lane, Italian autostradas, one feels the need for a more solid feel in the steering.
If cars like these were made affordable (perhaps in the 5-8k range) I could see them becoming very popular with students, and people who really don't need a car except on rare occasions.
Here in Montreal, it's suicide to go downtown by car. For me it's a 20 minute ride, plus 10-15 minutes to find a parking spot. Then you have to pay the meters something ridiculous like 1 buck per hour, and have to go fill the meter every other hour. After that, you have to walk to where you were supposed to be. Comparatively, I can jump into the bus/subway, and be where I need to be in 25 minutes door-to-door. The monthly pass is 31$ for students/elderly and 59$ for anyone else.
Since I have to be downtown every day, I find it hard to justify the cost of a car. The bus pass will cover 5 days/week of my transportation costs. Much less than the equivalent fuel. However, it's damned inconvenient when I have to get to a place either late at night (slow/inexistent service) or where the transit system doesn't go. What I need is the equivalent of a scooter, but in car terms. Two people, some luggage space. I don't need in-dash bluetooth or any of the other fancy stuff. I want to get from point A to point B for less, yearly, than it would cost me to take a cab every time I need the ride.
Well, that's my two cents... So, where are those fuel efficient 2-people cars?
PS: all prices in Canadian dollars; 1CDN=0.78USD
Is its steering wheel column really that close to the seat?
I'm a a few inches...
Ha!
Ah, you mean body size...
> Which is patently unsafe and, at least in NYC, illegal.
Illegal, yes, but most cops look the other way. In fact, I've been waved along to follow a motor officer before when he was lane splitting (that was in NJ, though).
As far as lane splitting being patently unsafe, I disagree. If you split to the head of a line at a light, you're less likely to be rear-ended by someone who "didn't see you." If anything, lane splitting is safer. That being said, it should only be done as low speeds ( -b.
Well, except for those who buy your groceries for the whole week for your family of six... With the smart, you'd need a roofrack!
Motorcycle versus "Smart Car" -> Smart Car wins
Bicycle versus "Smart Car" -> Smart Car wins
Human versus "Smart Car" -> Smart Car wins.
Just because the Smart Car may be lower on the survivability totem pole doesn't intrinsically make them "unsafe". I rode my bicycle in rush hour traffic in Washington, D.C. and nearby suburbs for over 20 years without a single accident with another vehicle (I did hit a few potholes that dismounted me abruptly).
Since I knew I was more at risk I didn't fall into a false sense of security. I religiously indicated my intentions to other traffic, made eye contact with other drivers, didn't brazenly run red lights/stop signs, weave in and out of stopped traffic, or any of the multitude of wantonly perilous activities other cyclists seemed bent on practicing.
Same in many respects with SUVs. People get this totally false idea that they are "safe" and thus drive like morons and end up killing themselves and others.
In Northern Canada there aren't a whole lot of 18-wheelers either. The population is so sparse that the economics aren't there. Most trucks run in Norther Canada are super-B's. They have two trailers and 30 wheels.
- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
It's a bloody difficult keeping them in the right lane
Oh well that's your problem. On our interstates you are supposed to drive in the left lane. (Just the interstates, though)
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
I've seen them in Mercedes-Benz dealerships in Ottawa and Montreal.
They got their floor demos about three weeks ago; there's a MB dealership right across where I work, and I see them regularly.
According to the salesman, this year's allocation for Canada has already been sold out.
Sitting in one, you don't feel the "tinyness" of the thing; Inside, it's about as big as a Toyota Echo (well, except for the back seat); definitely some TARDIS technology at work here.
The CDN smart page is at http://thesmart.ca/
Oh, wait -- it can't go 80mph.
Er, I think it can, don't know which model but I've most certainly seen a smart going considerably more than 80, in fact I was passed by one when I was doing about 90.
Just 'cos it's small doesn't require that it's slow.
-- You ain't seen me, right?
Well, in its defense, pallbearer handles do deploy with the air bag. Thusly, allowing for people to save on the cost of a coffin. It also saves tax dollars, as firemen don't have to waste time cutting up your car for the body to then be placed in a coffin. They can simply take your car directly to the funeral home.
;)
I'm not sure if you've priced coffins lately, but this can save you a lot of money, not to mention grief for you loved ones.
Sounds like a smart purchase to me.
And you don't have to be embarrassed in front of chicks.
I would be. It looks like a goofy chick car to me. I'd never be caught driving one.
Many years ago, Volvo found out that a strong, rigid box may protect the car from catastrophic damage, and yet kill the passengers. The g-forces from a collision can kill yu while the car body stays intact.
Yes. And the crumple zone takes a lot of the impact force and reduces the acceleration. It does that by using up energy for deformation. Where the part that gets deformed is located is of no conseqeuence as long as it lowers the forces acting on the passengers.Even my 1.9l Golf IV TDI (okok, Diesel against Otto engine is a bit unfair, I admit) usually gets below 5l/100km, although I'm not known for my very economic driving style.
If you want to go for really low consumption check out Volkswagen Lupo; their "best" (in terms of consumption) model comes down to 2.9l/100km. Diesel engine again, though.
Be safer, ride on the sidewalks - that's what the "handicapped/wheelchair" ramps at the curb are really for ... (just joking, - well, sort of, since I've done it once or twice :-)
Smart Cars coming to the US and UK? WOOHOO! No more bad Southern drivers!
The design is similar to a cheap electric commuter car called Revabeing sold in India.
Also, check out Reva electric commuter car photo gallery
Reva electric car home page
While we're talking about small cars, check out this electric powered beauty.
Not only does it get only slightly better mpg than a 1980 VW diesel rabbit, it's slow enough in getting upto highway speed to pose an actual safety threat.
"Only" 50hp and it's that speed impaired? Something is else wrong.
Although I am sure these cars are reasonably safe (otherwise the Ministry of Transportation would forbid their sale), I doubt if they will catch on much here in the snow belt. They look more like a summer car, or something that will be used as a promotional vehicle. How will these things handle in a blizzard, or on a windy day?
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
I have a feeling that the manufacturer hasn't seen the state of the roads in Detroit. One of these could seriously fall into a pot hole and be gone forever. I have a Nissan Sentra and a Sierra, and driving the car around Detroit is like commuting through an obstacle course every day. The SMART car is half the size of that. I don't care how well it performs in an accident, I'd rather not BE in an accident.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I've owned my share of US cars, and will NEVER buy another one.
I still want to see the Roadster-Coupe come to the US, since ZAP is converting the CityCoupe, perhpas they'll see fit to convert a few Roadster-Coupes for the US market. Unfortunatley this probly means that the Roaster-Coupe will posses a premium price, instead of being cheaper competition for the Mazda Miata/MX5, like it is in Europe...
Oh well, I'll just keep looking for an Alfa Romeo 1300 Zagato Jr. 45 Mpg, 130 Mph =) Ofcouse it's about the size of an MG Midget and you have to open the sun-roof to let your head out the top of the car if you're over about 5'8"... And being collectable they sell for ridiculous ammounts.
Bah, I'd not worry about this is I lived in a part of the country where I could ride my motorcycle all year.
A Call For A New Slashdot Moderation Level!
Would have been interesting... Might just have lost a potential customer as the 2 images i could see looked rather interesting....
Its not nice to alienate ( or sue ) your customers..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I can get a FORD for $12k
If they hit a fixed object, like a tree or concrete barrier, everyone dies too.
Yeah, right.
The Toronto Star took part in the Energy Challenge Rally and wrote about it. The concept was to do several rally stages in different cars and try to get the best mileage. This was done in city traffic.
Read about it here
As well as the Fortwo, the drivers tried out a hybrid Civic, a Prius and a Mercedes E320 CDI.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Yep - the simple solution to that problem is to not ride on the lines. The lines are not more than a few inches wide, and you can usually ride slightly to one side or the other of them.
Be safer, ride on the sidewalks - that's what the "handicapped/wheelchair" ramps at the curb are really for ;-P
Heh.
-b.
Also, you might want to check out this: http://www.insidercarsecrets.com/women.html
Or the stats a bit further down the page:
So it's a "chick car". So what? That's what people said about the new Mini - but I see guys snapping them up, and their girlfriends love 'em.A woman isn't going to get all gushy over you 'cause you have a 454 under the hood. She'll just think you're another one of those "horsepower substitutes for penis" idiots.
There's already one here (smart fourtwo coupe), running deliveries for a local Mexican restaurant called La Taquiera Paloma. It's got the advertising painted on, and I imagine they may have imported it from Mexico.
And yes, it's tiny, but I still think it's pretty cool for local driving.
"And also it doesn't have cupholders for the giant Slurpees that you lot consume."
It's something we sip on during our 1000 km road trips. Do you have those where you live? Without the need for a passport?
This link shows what happens when you push an SUV beyond the intended "envelope". Notice that the whole body is deformed, the frame doesn't have enough strength to hold the car's weight when rolling over at low speed. Imagine this happening at 75 mph on the freeway...
I agree about the other models tho.. they suck bad, really really bad...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Apparently my math knowledge is sadly incomplete, from TFA:"...an entire Fortwo comes together in only 41¼2 hours (compared with more than 20 hours at a conventional car plant)." What kind of formula is that?
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
They call it a roaster .... guess its that UK influence..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Why don't they just brand these things as "coffins" and save a step?
is four feet smaller than a Mini Cooper
That's something to be happy about?
Saw three of them on the back of a car carrier on Wednesday here in Kelowna BC.
We started the Dynasty motor car corp here with former Western Star personnel. Of course it had to flee to the US for tax reasons...
I wonder if there would be an aftermarket beefing up the motor, sort of like how the old beetle could take a 911 motor. There would be something unique in driving a vehicle looks like a tiny gnat on the road, but can fly like a bat out of hell.
My rights don't need management.
Okay, I'm out-geeked with facts. (Of course any emotional reactions/comments/feelings/attitudes are not mentioned at all -- is that because facts are all that matter?)
Did you know that in almost 80% of the cases where married couples buy a new or used vehicle that it is the woman who calls the shots and makes the final decision?
Not when I was married. I stuck with my faithful Jeep pickup and she had her own POS Nissan (which looked really slick, with incredible creature features, but which started falling apart just about when the warranty ran out -- hence it was a POS). It's likely I'll be married again in the not too far distant future. I have enough that I'll be driving what I want and she'll be driving what she wants. If we have kids, we'll do the mini-van thing -- but I will not drive a chick car.
here are some very interesting statistics pertaining to women:
Good for you, you like and respect women. But what's that got to do with whether a car is a chick car or not?
Any of my friends will tell you I'm heavily liberal, but there are 2 areas where I'm strongly rooted to male traditions, and am unlikely to change: 1) I will NEVER own or drive my own chick car, and 2) I will always prefer a barber shop run by men, with male barbers, for men, without stylists. On #2, it's not about whether women can do a job, but that it was nice to walk into a barber shop on a Saturday morning and have "male" conversation going on, and I've never seen it the same in a shop with women barbers.
A woman isn't going to get all gushy over you 'cause you have a 454 under the hood.
Actually, I've never used a car to pick up women. (Although they do think I look cute in my pickup with my golden furred terrier sitting on the seat next to me, looking out.) My current girlfriend was attracted to me because I wasn't the typical groping, aggressive, testosterone filled male who needs horsepower to substitute for anything. She liked that I listened, am sensitive to her needs, and that she can trust me (among other things).
I like driving a vehicle with horsepower. I love being able to flick to 4WD with the pull of one lever and can go offroad into the mountains on weekends. I use it to get away from the city and definitely prefer a vehicle that can deal with the off road trails in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
The only chick car I've ever seen that can come close to that is one you mention: the original Beetle.
by Euro NCAP is only at three stars.
Check out the whole "supermini" list.
Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
I know they can put the steel cage in it and tell everyone that and make them feel better, but realistically one of the strongest cars ever built did not have a steel cage. The company my father works for is a plastics engineering company and they worked with Chrysler back in the 80s with a prototype polymer and produced a car that was made with two halves split lengthwise down the car of injected plastic (using their material). It didn't have crumple zones but they know how you can build those in fairly easily. It turned out to be extremely strong, but was dropped because you couldn't market a plastic car at the time. You probably still couldn't now. They use some variations of this concept in Europe.
Presently here, but not there.
The speed limit on highways is from 100 to 130 kmph (60-80 mph) in europe, depending on country. The traffic speeds about 15% on average. So driving 140(87) isn't uncommon. Germany has no speed limit. That's why mercedeses and porches are build to cruise at 200(125).
It requires no parking (space, effort or cost), zero maintenance, it's extremely environment-friendly and it's very silent.
Other advantages: no need for a garage, no problem starting it up in winter and, best of all, it steers itself to destination.
It's only used in urban areas, but so are the SMARTs.
This wonder of modern technology is our rock-solid public transportation network. My visit to Dallas a couple of years ago has convinced me that Americans have no clue of this concept. Heck, I'm not even sure you guys ever heard of bycile lanes or walkways.
Sigged!
Must learn to proof-read...
... too early in the AM for me i guess..
Man
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Sure, within the countries who joined the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_treaty
something clever to make me stand out!
Do you think these SMART cars will be drive by wire and have an onboard computer to protect the drivers from themselves?
ecode> Wow, women make up 51% of the pop... but only 38% of biz owners, and only 43$ of hte half millioairs? Women suck, I guess. some do, some don't; some swallow, some won't ... but being a typical AC, you'll never have the chance to find out, first-hand ... :-)
I realise that I'm in the minority when it comes to these things, but I will never buy a new car. Its such a bad deal. Why buy new when youcan buy a used car so much cheaper? You could buy a really nice used car fro $12,000. I'd much rather have a larger used car that could fit more stuff, then this piece of junk that can't fit anything. Not to mentiont he safety hazard. Can you imagine the wrekage of one of these after it gets into a head on colision with a SUV?
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
You can get the engine ECU chipped, which increases the power and top speed, and removes the 130km/h speed limiter. A derestricted Smart can do around 170km/h, but it needs wider wheels and substantially different tyres. The brakes are more than adequate, but would probably benefit from grooved discs if you are going to play at those kind of speeds.
Real men aren't insecure about the looks of the car they drive or who cuts their hair.
FWIW: $30 hair trimmer == problem solved
Or was a buzzed haircut too "manly" for you?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I'm in Beijing, China (expat, recently of NYC) and I saw one of these about two weeks ago. Of course to me all the car models seem a little strange looking, but this one was over the top. I couldn't figure out who made it, guess now I know.
Anyone living in Beijing and knows where to buy?
Peace, or Not?
>It has tonnes of cars, tonnes of bad drivers (not as many as the US though, our driving test is a bit more advanced) and lots of accidents.
That's true. A BBC World News reporter took a test in Montana and reported how laughably easy the test was. He passed with flying colours.
Funny, though, that he later took an Ontario, Canada driving test and failed miserably. I'm not certain which test he was given, as there are two separate driving tests in Ontario that need to be passed to have a full license.
Some interesting stats:
7.3 per 100,000 Ontarians die in accidents (2002).
14.93 per 100,000 Americans die in accidents (2002).
5.78 per 100,000 Britons die in accidents (2002).
Compiled by combining info from this and this. I'd just get the per 100,000 population count from the UK website but it's particularly pathetically designed, requiring over 6 links just to get to a single stat that's pointlessly in PDF.
It's just interesting that the increasing the difficulty level of a test not only follows the laws of diminishing returns, but also, apparently, can cause an increase in accidents as the difficulty level increases past a certain point.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
There was a minor fad for Corbin Sparrow EVs here in Palo Alto about three years ago. I haven't seen one in a while.
Everyone knows that high mileage vehicles are a good idea but here in the US the trend has been to buy very large, very heavy SUV's which don't get good mileage at all. In fact driving a small car on the same road with those behemoths is dangerous. For example, what is nothing more than a fender bender for a Lincoln Navigator can be fatal for the driver of the Cooper Mini which gets involved in an accident with it. How can we break our dependence on foreign oil when we can't even feel safe buying a small, fuel economical vehicle?
Some states base your vehicle registration fee on the value of your car. While this does tend to progressively ease the burden on the poor who can't afford expensive cars it also encourages people to drive older vehicles that are not in prime mechanical condition. I suggest that the states base registration fees on the EPA mileage for the model of car. That way the larger, heavier vehicles which do more damage to the roads can pay a greater share of the maintenance. It will also encourage people to buy the newer, higher mileage vehicles as well as encourage the manufacturers to raise their mileage standards to follow that consumer trend.
It's not wrong for businesses to try to maximize their profits, that is what we should expect them to do. So obviously the way to get them to do the right thing is to set up the system so that they are doing the right thing for America (decreasing dependence on foreign oil) while they are doing the right thing for their shareholders (competing for customers). It's an added bonus that those who should pay more for road usage generally would.
Look at the tendancy of other cars in the era - long, tall, bulky.
I just looked at smart.com. According to Smart's own site, they'll be doing an SUV version of the ForFour for the US market in '06.
They're mocking us.
The For2 is a cute, scale model of a Mercedes A-class. Yawn.
But I'd buy a Roadster if I could title it in California, especially the Brabus version. It's not that fast (0-60 in 9.8s), but it's very, very nimble and still gets 50-60mpg. I commute 40 miles over mountain highways...that's the perfect commuter car for me.
You have violated Robot's Rules of Order and will be asked to leave the future immediately.
These cars have been driving around here for years now. It seems nice but it has a LOT of drawbacks. The trunk is tiny. It's economical enough, but the fuel tank doesn't hold more than about 15 liters (4 gallons) of fuel, so refueling is more frequent than a regular car. The engine isn't very well isolated, and it sounds like an oversized vacuum-cleaner.
Once in a while it decides it won't start- it took taking out the manual to figure out the 7-step ritual (something like turn key to 1. Hold the breaks, turn key to 0, push central lock button, push remote control button on keychain, start car) to get it going again. Now this one has semi-automatic gear- if you want to put it in reverse, you have to hold the break pedal while putting it into gear, otherwise it stays in neutral. It won't give me back the key unless it's in neutral-- Listen car, who's boss?? GIVE ME BACK MY KEY!! I'll put you in no-drive afterwards, I SWEAR! (bastard). No day counter, just general kilometers driven by the car. No small clock anywhere on the dashboard (which consists mostly of an LCD- come on, how much trouble/cost would it have been to add a little clock?), so if you want to know what time it is while driving, bad luck.
But I really think the worst part is that it's not user friendly. If the manual wouldn't have been in the car, I'd still have been stuck.
I'd trade the Smart for a HomerMobile any day of the week- if it were mine.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
here's another perspective on the whole size and safety thing. The folks at LBL summarized their study with a nice graph that shows the relationship between safety and size is pretty complicated. For example, a Toyota Camry is safer for its occupants than a large SUV like a Chevy Suburban. While a Corolla scores better than a Dodge Ram. (And that's ignoring the fact that the Dodge Ram is five times more likely to kill somebody else.)
...
The main message of the study is that, in the real world, design trumps mere weight advantage (an Escort is twice as dangerous as a similarly light Civic) - something to warm the heart of every real geek
I can't really speak for the folks who think driving a huge car is a "status symbol"... I suppose they've got the right to drive anything they like, really - but the era of "big cars make you look cool" pretty much ended in America in the 1970's, last I checked.
The reason *I* recently purchased an SUV (mid-size, mind you - not some HUGE model) was a need for room to transport things. I used to drive a Ford Ranger truck, but along with being far from a joy to drive (only a 4 cylinder, yet managed to still get pretty poor gas mileage) - you couldn't really put breakable items in the bed without LOTS of preparation. It was great when I wanted to haul a bunch of yard waste away, but not for daily computer on-site service calls.
I'd love to get 60mpg, but it's not really an option for me in one of these little 2-seater "Zap" branded vehicles. I've got a 2 year old daughter who needs a car seat, and I'd never be able to give anyone else a ride while I've got her, plus not nearly enough trunk space to store things like a spare 17" SVGA monitor and several milk crates full of spare PC parts.
I'm more interested in some of the projects I've seen to create hydrogen powered minivans and SUVs, really.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They primarily appeal to late twenty something and beyond women, at least in my experience down here in Atlanta. Throw in children and the appeal skyrockets. They are portrayed as safer than cars and their truck like looks appeal to those seeking something rugged.
Saner people gravitate towards vans but the prices on SUVs are appealing. For 20K you can get more perceived safety, the security by being above everyone else, and the some practical cargo space. Very hard to beat when many cars in that price range are far smaller and fragile looking. Example, Chevy Equinox, 20k. Looks a lot more imposing than the car counterparts priced the same.
America, Japan, and Europe all have the knowledge of how to build safe cars and they all do build them. However local preferences are what must be catered to.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
So when do we get smart drivers?
These look very cool and well designed but what good is a two seat car? I know it gets great mileage buy you'd still need to own a second bigger car to when you needed more room. And yes it gets 60 MPG vs my 25 MPG in my Chevy Tracker but at 10K Miles a year and $1.85 gas prices, I'd save a big $431.67 per year. And at 6'2", I don't think I'd fit anyway.
Funny, I never said it was due to insecurity. Why did the topic spring so easily to your mind?
As for a buzz cut, who said manliness was the issue here? Is there some reason you bring it up?
I didn't realize that the Smart wasn't on sale in the US until now.
Over here in Europe the smart has been around since 1998, with serious technical problems in the beginning, like the car flipping backwards on snowy mountain roads (no joke); and major design discussions just like on slashdot now.
Originally it was was a Joint Venture of Volkswagen and wristwatch-maker Swatch, but VW CEO Piech called it an elephant rollerskate and Daimler-Chrysler finally bought the whole thing.
After the first 6 months the advertising expense of DC per sold unit was almost on par with the selling price of the car.
Now smart is quite successful, even more with the roadster/coupe and the Mini-like Forfour.
In the other scenario, box makes contact with other car so the G-force on the passengers is immediate and powerful, while the car begins to deform afterwards.
$12,000 for a car that I can't really put anything but two people in? I'd be interested in buying one as a second vehicle for the daily commute to work for, say, $5,000-$8,000; but for anything but the commute to work, it would be worthless (camping, hauling mountain bikes and all of the associated gear, etc). It would be nice to save gas, with my subie wrx only getting ~20mpg though. Bring down the price, and the car can probably sell well to single folks who need a nice commuter to go to work with each day.
Well, I live an a urban area (and not in NY) because I hate cars. I picked my house so it easy walking distance to shops, transit, schools. Nice to be able to walk home when I've had a few too many beers at the bar. Of course, for work I work on my computer at home.
They're not so much coming as they are allready parked in front of my friend's house, much to my amazement and amusement.
Although, I have to wonder, if you can park two of these in one regular parking spot, how will the metermaids handle this? Twice as many parking tickets? Tiny cars paying for large parking spaces at full price?
You can't take the sky from me...
It seems that the only thing that the Smart has going for it is PR hype.
Some of the ideas are sound, but I'm not sure how well they are implimented. Most of the ideas aren't new, and are indicated by basic physics and experience.
You want a car that handles like a sports/racer and gets good fuel economy? Make it small and light and put a small, fast engine in it for a high power-to-weight ratio (motorcycle engines are damn-near F1 knockoffs and cheap as dirt).
The fewer powered accessories in the vehicle, the less engine/fuel needed to power them (a small car doesn't need power steering, brakes, windows, or AC - the McLaren F1 doesn't have them either).
If you really want to knock off even more power-robbing weight and complexity, drop the rear tranny and one of the rear wheel assemblies, make it a three wheeler. You lose almost a third of the rotating inertia of the entire drivetrain!
Add some smarts to the control system. A large part of the expense and complexity of the modern automobile is the custom control electronics used to lock in the customer to the original manufacturer for repair parts. You can drop a lot of the expense by using standard of-the-shelf systems. A fast PDA could easily handle most of the control functions in a small car, and act as a removable instrument cluster/electronic key, and look! You've got a PDA also!
"Space frames" are a well-known technology. Every shade-tree mechanic that's built a dirt-track racer or demolition vehicle can build one. A well built frame is very strong and stiff, but heavy. A more appropriate technology is a stressed-skin monocoque filled with crush resistant honeycomb (like cardboard) or foam beads.
The use of changable panels, simplification of design, and cheap parts, have all been used before... in commodity goods.
These vehicles aren't meant to be "investments", they are commodity goods, like toasters, blenders, PC's and TV's.
These vehicles all have some traits in common: small, light, and look like kids go-carts trimmed out to look like their parents real cars.
Some other sport vehicles are:
Campagna T-Rex http://www.go-t-rex.com/
Norton Shrike http://unitas.lunarpages.com/~norton2/shrike.htm
Tri-Magnum http://www.rqriley.com/index.html
Vortex http://www.vortexplans.com/
The Indycycle http://www.indycycle.net/
Grinnall Scorpion http://www.grinnallcars.com/
Note to people that like bashing Americans: If you had to grow up in our society, with our history, with our government and laws, you would be us. After all, where do you think we came from?
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
AgniTheSane? Eh? I live in Athens GR, and Smart car
users rank as the most insane inept, and generally
stupid drivers in Athens (which is saying something). Not only do they park *on the sidewalk*
(translated for our bro's in the states), but thanks
to our City Mothers (tm) the railings put in to
stop us being foolish enough to risk becoming road
pizza block us from getting past the damn things..
So, a simple journey of 100m on foot becomes something akin to a Drunkard's walk. (I could
mention the sad "moggy" (cat) which got road
pizzaed live last easter, but I'd rather not).
A while back I stood in absolute astonishment while a "smart car loser" tried to park one of those little Mercedes/Swatch things in a space
which would have been ample for a stretch limo.
15 minutes later, the guy selling motorcycles
(Ag. Dmitri Ambelokipi Athens) was almost at the
same risk of emptying his bladder into his jeans.
(The person (sex deleted) parked 1m away from the
kerb). Never mind it's a local traffic bottleneck.
AARRGGH!
Beware smart car users. They are short on neural
nets and *real* stupid. Pedestrians don't exist.
The best thing you can do to a smart car user is
to borrow a military friend's flamethrower and
incinerate it.
They are almost, but not quite as horrid as Reliant Robins...
Look at the tendency of other cars in the era - long, tall, bulky.
2CV ?
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
People can bitch at me all they want, but when a truck is the only thing I fit in, there is no other option, until I can afford my 28mpg 'Vette... <meanness>I guess if the hippies weren't so malnourished from not eating meat, they might have grown up, too.</meanness> I've driven a Civic, and it's just beyond uncomfortable (not to mention it cuts the seating down to 3, b/c noone can sit behind me).
-bZj
.sig
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
I don't understand. It isn't legal for me to drive to Vancouver or wherever, buy a Canadian smart, drive that puppy back over the border and register it?
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it. --Chinese Proverb
He sounds like one of those guys who wears pink shirts just to prove he's secure with himself...
But I have to agree on the $30 hair trimmer. I used to stick to male barber shops as well, until I moved west and couldn't find them anymore. I also found it was nearly impossible to find someplace that was open when I wasn't at work, except for one Mexican barber shop where I was the only person who didn't speak Spanish. I went there for a while, but finally got myself a hair trimmer and learned to do it myself. I don't have a buzz either, just a normal part; it's not that hard to do.
I don't know where you people live, but it's not anywhere near me. Any political bumper stickers on big SUVs here are for Bush. I've absolutely never seen an enviromental or Democrat sticker on an SUV. Usually those are on small cars.
It's not my way -- the $30 hair trimmer, that is. I use one for my dog and on my beard, but I prefer the barber ship. It seemed like this responder missed understanding the point of the post. I'm not into hunting, or a grease monkey, or many of the "things" stereotypically associated with "manly men" (or even manly men in tights...), but there was something about the conversations in a barbershop when only men gathered there that was different. It was like a different version of guy's night out. There was just a type of "male bonding" that isn't there anymore.
I also prefer being able to sit and relax and, for a change, let someone else do the worrying for me. Maybe it's got to do with having my own business and having to make decisions about it all day long, every day -- even when I'm supposedly not working, that it's nice there's a place where I can let someone else do something for me and have to make the decisions.
It's something we sip on during our 1000 km road trips. Do you have those where you live? Without the need for a passport?
Hell, I can go on one of those without leaving the province. Many slurpeez are required.
http://www.dieselveg.com/smart.htm
-- Fuck Beta
There's unquestionably room in the market, especially in highly urbanised countries where fuel is expensive, for tiny funky city cars like these. I'd buy one. But the Smarts, despite being a Mercedes co-production (which would lead you to think it'd be nice but have lousy quality control...), are just lousy to drive and too expensive, according to all reports. The reviews (Review 1, Review 2) have been so lousy that I ruled out even ever test driving one; if the things cost $AU5000 then that'd be another matter, but they're really quite expensive here, and the US pricing would seem to be similarly inflated, compared with the lower pricing of regular cars in the States.
Here in Sydney, Australia, I see a Smart tooling around every now and then, but every single one I've seen has been a corporate promotional vehicle, not a private car. There's no reason at all for a private citizen to buy one of these expensive, annoying little things, when perfectly good four-seat Japanese subcompacts are available for the same money. Korean ones cost rather less.
Water?
Allergy advice: Contains eggs.
See other child posts for the reasons.
I'm late to the party with this post but for those that haven't seen the size of the car I took this picutre. They're small and tall compared to the cooper and gold and would seem to be easy easy easy to park.
Smart car size
The US spent 40 years building itself into a car based soceity emphasizing on having your own quarter acre of land with a house on it and NOT living in the center of the city. This has been beaten into people's heads as part of "The All American Dream" by pretty much every direction in American soceity. Its to the point where people get tax breaks just because they made the choice to purchase a house. (but thats a whole 'nuther rant) They go from their houses to their cars to wherever they work. I've heard it called "living in the bubble," and thats about the best way I've heard of putting it.
In most places noone goes to downtown if they can help it, and downtowns either never develop or they they've been run down, then all the people in the suburbs - when trying to be coaxed into supporting some event downtown - sy "eew! why would I want to go downtown! Its Icky! Undeseriables live there!" and the cycle continues. Someone that hasnt bought into the whole suburbia thing tries to create some public transport, it gets done half-heartedly (if ever) and then people have a failure to point at as the reason to NOT develop public transit properly.
I've lived in cities that have real downtowns and workable public transportation and people actually live and stay "in the city." These places are about a million times more interesting and vibrant than the rest of this country.
The thought that people should live in urban areas and interact with each other on a daily basis is fairly looked down upon here, thinking that those with the urban view tend to be looked at as "kids" or "hippies" or "communies," when in reality they're just not buying into brand america.
Interesting side note: I was talking with an aquaintance the other night who just moved here from Europe and he was telling me about looking to buy a house. He was totally confused. When I asked him why, he said "All the houses near the heart of the city are so cheap! It makes no sense!" I had to take a second to explain how most cities in the states dont really have much of a heart.
To heep with the thread: When I lived in San Francisco I'd see one or two of these tooling around my neighborhood and I think they're fantastic.
Not everyone commutes 100 miles a day in rough terrain with two kids and a dog, and to be honest, if you don't leave the city that often - why the hell do you need a tank that takes up 24 feet of curbside parking? Are you that important? Unless you're a person that saves peoples lives on a daily basis, the answer is most likely no.
s'wut i sed.
Commuter Cars
I also heard somewehre they use embedded linux to control their battery charging mechanism. Dont quote me.
Error: Id10t detected
I've been in California 7 years, but before that in the UK. I have no doubt that *fast lane* speeds might be that high, but are you seriously saying that ALL lanes are driving at that speed? I thought lorries still had governors to keep them to 70 or so?
...
In the mid 90s my rather clapped out 1.3 litre VW Golf Mk2 (which could do 90 or so flat-out, 80 comfortably) was quite sufficient for motorway driving.
1960s / early 1970s American cars were pretty fast, actually. It was the 55 mph speed limit and mandated 80mph speedos that killed things after that. I drive a 1967 Ford Thunderbird every day; it's badly out of tune and needs a lot of work, but it's still a challenge to keep to the 65mph speed limit. The car wants to cruise at 80-90, and it will easily do the "ton" - I get scared and back off before it stops accelerating. People on the mailing list for these beasts claim that pinning the 120mph speedometer is easy with a car in good condition, and there are claims of 130-140 mph. Not bad for a 3-speed automatic transmission, which is probably the eventual limiting factor (a higher cog would be nice).
And this was a semi-luxury cruiser, not a performance car by any means. Of course, the seven litre V8 probably helps
Or check out this monster: http://www.seriouswheels.com/1930-1939/1930-Bugatt i-Royale-Esders.htm
784 cubic inch 8-cylinder engine, to haul around the 4 tons it weighted.
Or one of the most popular cars of its' time, the 1929 hudson http://www.phelpsclan.com/Hudson/
The Beetle looked nothing like those beasts.
The website says they run on petrol, but we use gas in the US - these will never work!
Jonathan B.
My personal definition of "chick car" goes back and forth, really. If I can smoke some guido asshole in his blinged-out 4-cylinder Accord with my Mini Cooper-S, that's gonna make me *very* satisfied with my choice of automobile.
How do you define "chick car?" With respect to the Smart cars, I could definitely see driving a Forfour around the city (I live in NYC) and being able to park it nearly anywhere there's a gap between cars. Just the fact that it looks so radically different from other cars is enough for me.
+++ATH0
I've been driving a vehicle for years that usually gets better than 60MPG (Canadian - not that wimpy American Gallon ;)
;) There's lots of places that have climates that encourage riding many of the months of the year.
I get to go on ferries no matter what the lineup, and I get to go in HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lanes even though I'm alone.
I ride a motorcycle!
In my case it is currently a Honda GL 1800 but was recently a GL 1500.
I know people who ride all manner of 2 wheeled vehicles.
In Europe and the East, these are more than just a fad, they are legitimate commuter vehicles - how come not in North America? (leaving aside the problem that only her in Vancouver and the South Western portions of BC are Canadians blessed with weather that allows almost year-round riding
I'll ride 'till I die - and love every minute of it!
Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
and didn't get it
Sorry, but you're wrong. Unibodies are stronger and stiffer than a body to be mounted on a frame, because the unibody is the sole structure for the vehicle. Whether the roof pillars are strong enough to withstand a rollover on either type is another matter.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Of course you are right, I just wanted to draw the attention to the fact that the Beetle-concept was not unique (besides, the 2CV was much much more fun) than the more "grounded" VW.
:)
And the Duesenberg - wow - I saw the Model J Duesenberg Derham Bodied Tourster at Haynes. Completely different category though.
And now out for a ride with this Nice 180d
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Tow my boat with it or drive though 1-2 feet of snow with it?
What if I'm out shopping and buy a new 21" monitor.. I'm not going to strap it to the roof thats for sure...
Sorry.. I'm stickin to my Trailblazer.. My old Saturn (which was a great car) got to small for me.
With careful driving, I can get close to 60MPG (imperial) from my Peugeot 206[*], and that's got an engine 3 times the size and 4 seats. Must be able to beat that.
[*] I have no idea about exact figures because for some reason they didn't give me a fuel efficiency display.
Bullshit. A passenger in this vehicle would not likely survive a collision with a Harley.
The crash tests say otherwise. What makes you think they are wrong?
That's were I put my iPod, and Cell phone!
And the Ash Tray is used for spare change.
You know, sometimes you wonder just how effective stuff like car advertising on television is... and then you read something like this and realize that it works like magic on some people.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
Our familly car is a Smart.
We actually can't get all four of us in the car but:
- we live within walking distance of the city centre and friends homes (remember walking? Keeps you fit and healthy)
- SO works 10 minutes on foot from home, I work from home and use Smart to visit clients in other cities
- when we go on holiday or weekend we rent a larger car. If we go to Spain we rent a Ford Focus Or a Toyota Corolla turbo diesel. If we go to family on weekend we rent a Vokswagen Polo or a Citroën C3
Before we had a huge car (Citroën XM) that was most of the time parked in front of the house. It cost more than Smart plus rental. It was less flexible (same size does not fit all needs).
By the way we have a "green" car badge which means we can use the car during pollution alerts.
realkiwi
Having lived on both sides of the Antlantic ocean, I have come to the conclusion, that things like highways/freeways, cars and dwellings being generally larger (per person) in North America has a lot to do with the much lower population density / much more space per person.
The lower density generally means land is less expensive. Therefore roads can be bigger, parking spots can be larger. Dwellings can be larger. Larger cars fit nicely onto the larger roads and larger parking spots.
Lower population density makes it less efficient to build and operate public transportation systems, so the car is more important in low density areas of North America. For example in New York City or in Toronto with their obviously high density, public transport is as evolved as anything in Europe, and many people don't even have cars. But in most places in North America, it is really quite unrealistc to live without a car.
Quite possibly related to that, taxation (direct and indirect) of cars and/or gasoline is much lower in the US and Canada, therefore larger cars are not nearly as expensive to operate in North America as they are in most European countries.
And believe me, every European visitor I've had, thoroughly enjoyed my larger car and my larger dwelling, and would love to have a bigger dwelling and car, if it wasn't so expensive and inconvenient (parking etc.)
Finally, I would further dare to submit, that a lot of Japanese people think that many European cars and dwellings and people are rather oversized.
And abundance vs. a shortage of physical space per person makes a huge difference in many every-day life situations, resulting costs and people's attitudes towards "what it normal".