Chinese Satellite Crashes Into House

toggleflipflop writes "In China, a returning satellite crashed into a house. No one was hurt. More details in this article. Apparently inhabited by an eternal optimist: 'The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year,' the tenant of the wrecked apartment was quoted as saying by the newspaper. According to the People's Daily's article on the subject nothing seems to have gone wrong."

Comments

First Image

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a picture.

Re:First Image

[I_Love_Pocky!]

As opposed to the corporate-run media in the US? You should never trust any media outlet completely.

Re:First Image

[Anonymous Coward]

Notice that it took that website 2 days after the "landing" to acknowledge that the thing hit a house. This is the news from 2 days ago from that same site:

Beijing, Oct. 15 (Xinhuanet) -- China has successfully retrieved its 20th recoverable satellite for scientific and technological experiments. The satellite's information capsule returned to earth Friday.

Link here.

Re:First Image

[Anonymous Coward]

And how that is different from the american media reporting what the WhiteHouse tells them?

they probably just reported what the government said, before finding out that something else had happened

Re:First Image

[jrockway]

I've thought about this for a bit and have another question. Does it matter what the Chinese government tells us? The information can't get back into China (Great Firewall, etc.) So they can just tell us the truth and lie to the citizenry, right?

Re:First Image

[Dachannien]

Good point. Like the pictures of abused prisoners in Iraq. They've been around the rest of the world for a year before they finally surfaced in the US. Compared to that, a two day cover up in china isn't scary.

Unless you're talking about the abuses perpetrated by Saddam Hussein at Abu Ghraib before the US occupation, you're manufacturing facts.

The prison abuse scandal broke in late April 2004 when CBS 60 Minutes II aired several photos showing abuse against US-held prisoners at Abu Ghraib. One year before that, April 2003, US forces were still in the process of securing the bulk of Iraq from whatever parts of the Baathist regime were still fighting at the time. Abu Ghraib and the other prison camps were not fully in place until late 2003, and the reports of prisoner abuse spanned the period from October to December 2003.

Amnesty International did request that an independent investigation be put in place as early as June 2003. They objected to the general conditions of the prison camps, but did not make accusations of violent torture at that time. However, even Cooperative Research notes that photos and other evidence of the abuses at Abu Ghraib were not leaked to the military until January 2004 and to the media in April 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_a buse

There is also no reason to believe that CBS would wait for months to break this story, as just a few months later they hastily broke another anti-Administration story that turned out to be false.

Re:First Image

[jav1231]

When have they? You smoke to much crack...or not enough. I'm not sure which it is with you, but you don't smoke the right amount.

Re:First Image

[bobbozzo]

What about the phone?
There are millions of Chinese living outside China, and many of them talk to their relatives in China regularly on the phone.

Re:First Image

[fermion]

Good point. Like the pictures of abused prisoners in Iraq. They've been around the rest of the world for a year before they finally surfaced in the US. Compared to that, a two day cover up in china isn't scary.

and

Unless you're talking about the abuses perpetrated by Saddam Hussein at Abu Ghraib before the US occupation, you're manufacturing facts.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_a buse

Although I am sure we all agree wikipedia is the authoritative and infallible new source, I prefer to look at a broader range of sources and treat the grandparent as hyperbole rather than manufacturing facts.

The valid point, as has been made many times, is that there is little investigative journalism in the US media. The US tends to feed facts to the media, either through agents like Woodward or press offices. The popular media takes these communiqué's and reports them as self generated investigations. We see the same thing when videos that are produced to promote some commercial interest are reported as news.

As far as who knew what when, there were people that knew of the torture in Iraq, and in Cuba, before it hit the US press. The Red Cross knew. However, the red cross can best serve prisoners by negotiating with the torturers, not going public. We can assume that the torture has been going on for quite some time, and the Red Cross, which enjoys free access in exchange for confidentiality, knew about it.

Could investigative journalists have found out? Was there a national security reason to keep the torture secret? And it there was, does that imply that the torture was authorized? Are we going to use anti-terror legislation to protect the American officials that wish to terrorize the American populous, as, for instance, the the NYPD did by shoving a stick up a persons ass? Does Bush's policies protect the torturers?

IMHO, the issue is does the government use excessive means to squash the American tradition of investigative journalism. We know that Bush, as opposed to Clinton, stated that all FOI should be aggressively denied. We know that the congress under Bush, as opposed to that under Clinton, aggressively defends all presidential meetings as secret. We know that Bush, as opposed to Clinton, does not feel the need to keep the public appraised of the administration thinking through the traditional use of press conferences, one of the few times when the press can ask the hard questions.

Re:First Image

[Dachannien]

The valid point, as has been made many times, is that there is little investigative journalism in the US media.

I'll agree with that statement. Even the CBS Bush document fiasco was the result of CBS journalists being fed information rather than digging up facts for themselves.

Well.... aside from at the local level, and that usually consists of "investigative journalists" harassing and trespassing on the property of some city councillor who was recently arrested for DUI.

Although I am sure we all agree wikipedia is the authoritative and infallible new source,

In the specific case I linked to in my previous post, the Abu Ghraib article was extensive and cited numerous other independent sources. It may not be infallible, but it's certainly as authoritative as any of the sources it cites.

Besides, blog journalism (or distributed or peer-to-peer journalism, if you prefer) is a new driving force in today's media, and it stands to change the way that journalism and politics in the US work between now and the 2008 election. Wikipedia is an extension of that concept.

Re:First Image

[3Bees]

There is also no reason to believe that CBS would wait for months to break this story, as just a few months later they hastily broke another anti-Administration story that turned out to be false.

I find it a telling sign of the times that even in an intelligent and informed posting like yours, the news is labeled as anti-Administration and the presumed corollary pro-Administration. Propoganda is an insidious force.

Re:First Image

[jrockway]

Who are they going to believe though?

Re:First Image

[808140]

No, instead we systematically inacted a widespread "final solution" to the "Indian problem", genocide on such an incredibly wide scale that we're still too embarassed to make much more than a passing reference to it in standard education.

Instead we benefited from legal slavery longer than any other western nation.

Instead, we torched women and children (entire villages, on purpose) during Vietnam.

And while we're on the subject of opening fire on protesters, let's not forget about the incident with Gandhi's followers and the British, on a similarly massive scale. Oh but wait, the British are our allies, so it's ok, right?

None of this makes Tiananmen right, because, as your mom probably told you, two wrongs don't make a right. But as an American living in China, frankly, sometimes I don't see such a huge difference between our governments in practice; only in ideology.

Ideology is definitely worth something. But don't pretend like our shit doesn't stink, but it sure as hell does. To criticize others effectively, we must be receptive to criticism ourselves.

Re:First Image

[mdfst13]

"that there is little investigative journalism in the US media."

After the football game, I watched 60 Minutes for a while. Andy Rooney traded in his car for $10,000. For a lark, they tracked down where it ended up. They were curious to see if anyone would misrepresent it in any way. What did they find? Nothing of course. That's the problem with investigative journalism: most of the time, the investigation fizzles. It is much higher profit to go with guaranteed stories, like celebrity interviews. Since the celebrity wants publicity, they are willing to "spice up" the story.

Those being investigated aren't nearly as accomodating. Remember when ABC demonstrated that ABC employees could stock an expired food item on a shelf (contrary to the manager's direct orders), another ABC employee could put it in the shopping cart before the manager saw, and a third ABC employee could ring up the item and charge the other ABC employee for it! Food Lion was a bit miffed at that particular staged piece of "investigative journalism." Now, why did ABC employees do that? Because they didn't observe any actual problems. They had to stage something to justify spending all that salaried time at the Food Lion. "We checked and couldn't find any actual violations" just doesn't have the same ring to it. They even had accusing witnesses (not like a random spot check).

If you want to fix investigative journalism, fix the "there ain't no money in it problem."

Re:First Image

[808140]

Your example would unfortunately prove nothing, because unless I were a widespread organizer, the government would rightly see me as mostly non-threatening. It is entirely possible that if I were obnoxious about it, I might be asked not to wear it by someone in a position of authority. If I refused, I would probably unceremoniously be asked to leave the country, as I am not Chinese.

But your point in a certain sense is well taken, because obviously, the USA is a nominally free society whereas the PRC makes no claims of being one. No one in their right mind would literally mean that the governments of the PRC and the USA are similarly repressive; but then that's why my comparison was prefaced with a modifying "sometimes".

In the same way that the slogan, "The USA: better than North Korea" has no substantial value, comparing the state of civic liberties in the PRC to the USA and using the USA's better track record as an indication of superiority is a useless exercise. Of course the USA is better than the PRC where personal freedoms are concerned. This goes without saying.

What is productive is the same comparison made in the other direction. If the PRC fails to meet the USA's standards, no one is surprised; it is when the USA is either the same or inferior to a country like the PRC that we need to begin worrying.

Comparisons of the USA's current state of civic freedoms to the PRC, the DPRK, or Mussolini's Italy are all hyperbole and should be treated as such. The purpose of such comparisons is to underscore the inadvisability of taking such reforms to extremes. Our current erosion of the civil liberties, for example, smacks of totalitarianism. To illustrate the point, I might say that the USA's current standards of something or other are equivalent to the PRC's -- this is meant to alarm you, not instigate a "but the PRC is worse than we are in terms of x, y, and z."

In summary, my point was that the original poster's retort (which essentially was, "The USA is better than the PRC because we don't roll tanks over students") was an oversimplified, propaganda-worthy comparison. It was one of those facile categorizations like, "You're either with us or with the terrorists", or "Things are either good or evil, black or white".

This kind of on/off true/false binary logic demonstratably fails with most real world concepts.

While the Tiananmen square massacre was lamentable, to simply state the USA is better because we have not similarly silenced protesting students is overlooking the huge number of horrible things we have done.

The PRC has many flaws; no one I know denies this -- even the Chinese. But Americans for some reason are wont to deny their own country's significant blunders.

To much of the rest of the world, China did not invade Iraq, or destabilize the entire continent of Latin America for their personal gain, or fight largely hopeless proxy battles with the former USSR in order to stop the spread of communism, because after all, we can't have vassal states choosing their own leaders or system of government. Free elections were never held in South Vietnam because of overwhelming popular support for Ho Chi Minh, etc. We face the same problem now in Iraq -- sure, we can have democracy, but what kind of leaders will the Iraqis elect? Most likely an Islamofacist one.

China's great flaws are these: a poor human rights record and a lack of personal freedoms. Of course, the nation griping the most loudly about the former is one of the few in the developed world that still executes inmates on a regular basis, and is also the one that was responsible for use of torture in Iraq. We may not be in the same league as China in this regard, but to much of the rest of the world, we are seen as a bully criticizing another bully for similar actions.

Regarding its lack of personal freedoms: this mostly means that political speech is not universally protected. Otherwise, you are welcome to sa

Re:First Image

[glesga_kiss]

In China, the media IS the government. Not the case in the US.

Not a Fox News watcher then, are ya bud?

Re:First Image

[timts]

well, the fact he mentioned clearly that rest of world have similar pics showing for around a year, before CBS "breaks" that as news for you in USA, period.

Well ...

[Sonic McTails]

I suspose that's one way to have an outer space experience ...

Nothing wrong?

[octal666]

Are they meaning the house-crashing was on schedule?

Re:Nothing wrong?

[gl4ss]

no, it's just chinaspeak for "our lives are ruined and the party won't pay us a dime".

Re:Nothing wrong?

[leonids]

You know, just like those damned guided bombs and cruise missles, it's easier to aim for a house than say the ocean.

I wonder if they pick the landing site..erm house by national lottery?

Re:Nothing wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Off course nothing is wrong.
The satellite capsule survived.

Re:Nothing wrong?

[Feanturi]

Heh, I was thinking something like that at first, until I realized, that particular article, on a chinese website, does not at all mention that the sattellite went anywhere near anyone's dwelling. Interesting omission.

Re:Nothing wrong?

[grainofsand]

I think it is just the opposite. The Party Secretary of the small town turned up with a fist full of renminbi shortly after the satellite crashed to make sure that the occupier said the right things when the reporters turn up.

Re:Nothing wrong?

[kd5ujz]

Im sure if china crashed a satellite in the mojave, the US would be a little pissed.

Re:Nothing wrong?

[Guppy06]

There's an Iraqi minitster of information joke in there somewhere...

next year

[morcheeba]

Boy, is that guy going to be disappointed next year when a satellite doesn't crash into his house. Bad luck all year!

Re:next year

[kingkade]

When the guy was saying everything was OK and generally being all happy-go-lucky about it, you could probably notice there was a red laser beam aimed at his temple. 'You used to be cool China, what happened?'

Re:next year

[DogDude]

Boy, is that guy going to be disappointed next year when a satellite doesn't crash into his house.

Who says it won't? The Chinese government said that everything went perfectly, so if everything goes perfectly next time a Chinese satellite comes back, then it'll hit this rucky guy's house again!

Re:next year

[Hillman]

there are cultural differences. What is good for the county is good for the individual.

Western culture used to be like that until individualism took over. Big developements in defense technology are a direct consequence of individualism. People are now less willing to die for their country therefore soldiers are now more and more removed from direct conflict.

Re:next year

[tylernt]

"then it'll hit this rucky guy's house again"

If this is a feeble attempt at Engrish, it's the Japanese, not the Chinese, that tend to pronounce English 'L's as 'R's.

I'd make fun of you for confusing Chinese and Japanese like a typical American, but I didn't score so good on the test at http://www.alllooksame.com/, so I won't. Let me watch a few more Chinese Kung Fu and Japanese Samurai movies and we'll see how I do then.

Re:next year

[Alien Venom]

Uhm, didn't you know? Satellites don't strike twice.

Re:next year

[Breakfast Pants]

Incorrect. My statistics professor is about 26 years old and from mainland china. He pronouces all 'L's as 'R's.

Re:next year

[kingkade]

Big developements in defense technology are a direct consequence of individualism. People are now less willing to die for their country therefore soldiers are now more and more removed from direct conflict.

Well fuck it, if it means spending a ridiculous amount of money on defense, I'd rather sit safely at home while Optimus Prime takes enemy fire.

Re:next year

[tylernt]

Interesting. I've got a co-worker from China with a heavy accent. Her name is Li and she says 'Li' and other 'L' words with perfectly-pronounced 'L's.

Maybe it's a Mandarin vs. Cantonese thing?

Re:next year

[jwymanm]

How exactly does individualism apply to big developments of government sponsored, large corporation developed defense technology? It's exactly the opposite. We use to have an individualist society where everyone had their own farms/land and defended themselves for the most part. Now we have industry and government rule. I think back then moral for the country was much higher. People not willing to die for their country has little or nothing to do with individualism and everything to do with their government they have started to hate. People gave up independence/self reliance so they could have modern industry and more protection (read: laws) from government. It was only a matter of time until the government became a large enough target for control and thus corruption.

Individualism:
(1) Belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues of self-reliance and personal independence.

I believe the above is a better description of people 150 years ago in the USA than it is today.

Re:next year

[kd5ujz]

I was thinking the same thing today. Before the Unions, and all of the labor laws, the US economy was booming. Now there are all of the laws that forbid drivers from driving long hours, overtime laws, minimum wage laws. Over seas they do not have these laws. We traded job/economic security for personal saftey. Probably for the better.

Re:next year

[Hillman]

I respect your point but I disagree.

I'm not talking about the industrial military complex. But the individual soldier. During the WWII draft, at least here in Quebec, people wanted to go to war to defend their country and their way of life. Some people even committed suicide because they were refused in the army for various health reason.

Soldiers are less willing to do dangerous missions or to be on the front. Hence the developement of technology that permits remote killing or surveillance.

Now, most soldiers want a college education or come from low-income famillies. They don't do it for the country. The sense of duty isn't as important.

I think we're not talking about the same individualism or we don't have the same definition. The individualism I'm talking about is the philosophical concept than the individual is the primary unit of reality and the ultimate standard standard of value opposed to collectivism where the nation, race, group, etc is the primary unit of reality and the ultimate standard of value.(http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/Writing /RaymieStata/WhatIsIndividualism.html)

The little theory came from one of my politics+philo teacher, if you want to know more about it, I'll go ask him some references.

Sorry for my poor ass english, I'm french canadian

Re:next year

[G-funk]

Plenty of Americans can't speak english, so why should the Chinese be any different?

Re:next year

[fucksl4shd0t]

Soldiers are less willing to do dangerous missions or to be on the front. Hence the developement of technology that permits remote killing or surveillance.

Bullshit. The technology came first, then the soldier's attitudes. Sorry. :) Large corporations don't cater to the individual fears and attitudes of the soldier. The technology was built to save soldiers' lives not because the soldiers themselves didn't want to put them on the line, but because the powers that be (those in charge of military spending and research) determined that the fewer soldiers they risked in intelligence gathering and surveillance, the more they'd have to fight the big fight. They also learned that technology can get answers to questions you couldn't have even asked previously by using the brute force method of just sending people in.

Warfare is becoming mechanized because it's cheaper and generally more destructive to build machines that blow themselves up than it is to send in actual humans, supoprt them, and then try to bring them home.

I don't think I made my point quite right, so I'm hoping you'll do a little reading between the lines to find it if need be. But like any other slashdotter, if you read between the lines and find the wrong point..... ;)

Re:next year

[EggplantMan]

Actually, if one is typing with a us dvorak key layout, it is quite possible to miss the 'l' key and hit the 'r' key.

Typical pigdog qwerty centric American.

Re:next year

[Hillman]

Just consider the army moto:"Army of one".

I'm not saying that you're wrong but I think there's a correlation between the rise of invidualism in western societies and the self-preservation of the modern soldier.

Nevertheless, I think soldiers are less willing to die for their country than before.

It would be nice to compare defense spending compared over the GDP over the years.

Re:next year

[fucksl4shd0t]

I'm not totally disagreeing with you about soldier's attitudes, I'm just disagreeing about the order of technological developments vs soldier attitudes, because the soldiers don't make the R&D decisions. It's higher-ranked guys that don't have to risk their lives anymore, and don't necessarily have to worry about risking other people's lives, because it's their job to do so as needed.

So, yeah, that's the only disagreement here. :) I'm certainly not interested in joining the US military right now and fighting any war. I'd rather spend my fighting time fighting the government that's currently in charge....(It's an election year, I've been listening to "Vote with a bullet" a lot)

Re:next year

[LifesABeach]

"According to the People's Daily's article on the subject nothing seems to have gone wrong."

When I read this, my memories wondered into a flashback of were the message reads, "So long, and thanks for all the fish!".

Re:next year

[RsG]

That whistling sound you heard was a cultural reference going over your head.

And that whistling sound the parent poster hears is the black helecopters landing on his lawn 'cos the secret service didn't get it either...

No thanks.

[wankledot]

Someone once told me that being shit on by a bird was good luck to the Italians... I guess this is like that to the nth degree

Personally, I'd rather have bad luck and no bird shit on my head (or satellites in my house)

Re:No thanks.

[Zardus]

I don't particularly mind satellites, as long as they come in through the front door, whipe their feet on the welcome mat, and politely drink their tea. Its the kind that crash through your roof or window that I can't stand. They're just plain rude.

Re:No thanks.

[JasontheMason]

Personally, I'd rather have bad luck and no bird shit on my head (or satellites in my house)

So, what if the bad luck was something like, um, a satellite falling through your roof?

JtM

Re:No thanks.

[jelle]

Not so much 'good luck', but in the spirit of karma, yin/yang, or for engineers 'laws of constant misery', getting hit like that tips the scale such toward the bad-luck extreme that after that you are due a lot of luck to get back to 'normal'.

Re:No thanks.

[metlin]

Actually, Satellites crashing may not be a bad idea.

I could sell one of these things off ebay and buy me some sweet loving.

But I suspect that in China, the only sweet lovin' I'd get would be from them gubmint men in red.

Re:No thanks.

[glk572]

The real question is wether you would rather be shat on by a bird or have a satellite fall through your roof; I would prefer the satellite, It would be worth it just for the story, especially if you rent.

Re:No thanks.

[orzetto]

Someone once told me that being shit on by a bird was good luck to the Italians

You don't remember it correctly, it's walking on it.

Re:No thanks.

[Nutria]

gubmint men in red.

Mao Suits are grey.

Yes, yes, I know: they went out of style 25 years ago.

Re:No thanks.

[cduffy]

It would be worth it just for the story, especially if you rent.

Quite. IIRC, my homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims responsibility for such events, in the same section where they say they aren't responsible for warlike actions or damage caused by nuclear blasts.

Re:No thanks.

[balloonhead]

But at least in a lot of Western countries, if the government or whatever agency crashed something into your house, you might get it insured through them. I'm sure NASA would front up some cash for a rebuild, seeing as they are responsible ultimately. Not much cash in the total budget of a satellite anyway, a few tens of thousand for a new roof and a wall or two.

I'm not so sure that the People's Republic would be so forthcoming with a rebuild. Then again, if everyone's equal in a communist society, maybe they all want their house destroyed by a satellite for luck and equality?

Re:No thanks.

[Moderatbastard]

tips the scale such toward the bad-luck extreme that after that you are due a lot of luck to get back to 'normal'.

That's a very good theory. I suppose if a coin comes up 99 times as heads, it just has to come up tails next time.

Note to self: next time in the bookies, bet on the horse that out of the last 10 races fell over twice, turned round once and finished last 7 times.

If there's such a word as misinformed, there should be misinformative too. For a definition see the parent post.

Re:No thanks.

[kd5ujz]

We are talking about luck, not statistics. A coin coming up heads or tails is one thing, you know if its heads or tails. A satellite crashing through your roof is another. It could have been bad, but hell, in the US people would be writing up long lists of shit they did not have. "Um, that laptop was a panasonic tough book" when the damn thing was a $699 dell special. Hell, it could have killed a burgler. Common sense tells us its a bad thing, but it might be good. The GOV might finaly replace the damn leaky toilet, and the guy will definatly have a new roof.

Re:No thanks.

[goon america]

An obvious instance of the Gambler's fallacy.

Chance is not self-correcting.

Re:No thanks.

[sharkdba]

Actually, Satellites crashing may not be a bad idea.
I could sell one of these things off ebay and buy me some sweet loving.

Which actually brings a question: if a satellite would crash into an US house, would it automatically become property of the house owner?

Re:No thanks.

[jelle]

Misinformative, as in chinese people do not believe in yin&yang?

When I say that there are people that still believe the earth is flat, then the earth acutally being round does not make my post misinformative, but it makes the people referred to misinformed.

Re:No thanks.

[jelle]

Chance may not be self-correcting, but luck is definitely not the same thing as chance. Luck greatly influences chance.

So..

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they get to keep the satellite ??

Finders Keepers..
Loosers Weepers..

Re:So..

[wicka_wicka]

I don't think that's communist policy. Losers keepers. Finders stabbed in the face.

Re:So..

[jrockway]

I don't know about china, but in soviet russia the satellite keeps you!

Re:So..

[Rotund Prickpull]

looser = your mom after i got done with her

Sorry to disappoint, but mater is not into aural sex.

Re:So..

[mabinogi]

aural sex?

that sounds painful....

Re:So..

[Guppy06]

We're talking about a state that claims to be communist. Nobody owns anything over there except for the proletariat, etc, or at least that's how the theory is supposed to go.

Re:So..

[808140]

Of course since the modern CCP is really an authoritarian market capitalist party, and was never Marxist/Communist in anything more than name (it was Maoist, which is very different, having the peasants rather than the workers at the center of the movement) I'm not sure your comment is all that insightful.

Funny in a sort of "I grew up during the Cold War and the reds are baaaaaad and Reagan is gooood" kind of "betrays a lack of critical thought" kind of way.

Re:So..

[Eric S. Smith]

What you call a lack of critical thought I call moral clarity ...

You are George W. Bush, and as my prize for having spotted you I request that you approve of one of my messages.

I don't understand

[elid]

"The returning capsule only went through the roof and no one was injured or died. Experts who inspected the return capsule found it was not damaged at all," the report said, quoting local official Ai Yuqing.

"The landing technology of our country's satellites is very mature and the precision of the landing point is among the best in the world. Members of the public need not worry about this," it also said, quoting Chinese space experts.

Someone please explain this to me. Did they plan on crashing the thing into this guy's roof?

Re:I don't understand

[Microlith]

Knowing how deeply the government of China truly cares for its people, I imagine it was more a case of "his house was in our target landing zone" as opposed to "we missed our target landing zone and hit his house."

Re:I don't understand

[morcheeba]

No, of course they didn't plan on landing it on this guy's roof. Check out the picture -- they were obviously aiming for the courtyard, and, if you ask me, they did a really good job of getting pretty close.

Re:I don't understand

[travdaddy]

"The landing technology of our country's satellites is very mature and the precision of the landing point is among the best in the world. Members of the public need not worry about this," it also said, quoting Chinese space experts.

Allow me to translate that from government-speak: "Nothing to see here. Move along."

Re:I don't understand

[leonids]

It's precision magnitudes better than our GPS!

Re:I don't understand

[LiquidCoooled]

found it was not damaged at all

Maybe we should build houses for happy go lucky aging chinese folks in Utah?

It would certainly be cheaper than hiring helecoptor stunt pilots.

Perhaps then Genesis would have more valuable science data for us.

Re:I don't understand

[ScrewMaster]

Hey, it's okay ... the capsule is fine. Nothing to worry about.

Re:I don't understand

[Tony-A]

I imagine it was more a case of "his house was in our target landing zone" as opposed to "we missed our target landing zone and hit his house."

Methinks you're right. Places to put up a house or apartment are somewhat hard to come by and they will tend to pop up on any unoccupied piece of ground. Considering the damage done to the apartment building and not done to the returned piece of satellite, I'd guess that earthquakes are a much greater threat.

Re:I don't understand

[morcheeba]

That does bring up an interesting question... why did the chinese satellite survive and Genesis was in pieces.

The main reason would that the Chinese parachute worked while the Genesis failed.

The other reason would be a weight budget -- the Genesis mission travelled much further, so the energy (and cost) to propel any additional weight would be much more than for the Chinese mission. Thus, it probably wasn't overbuilt.

The third reason is the mission. The Genesis mission had to open up to expose its collectors, while the chinese mission is a bit unknown. If it was a zero gravity research, its experiments probably didn't need exposure to space. If it produced a massive amount of data that couldn't be transmitted back, the data storage is usually easy to separate from the instruments (including film & camera). Anyone know what it was supposed to do?

Re:I don't understand

[afidel]

Wtf would the landing zone be ANYWHERE near an occupied area? They have this huge basically uninhabited area called the Gobi Desert to land big space probes in with a statistically zero chance of hitting anything. Instead they land it in the middle of one of the more populated parts of the country? That makes zero sense to me.

Re:I don't understand

[DAldredge]

It was probably a photo recon bird and this was just the container returning the film.

Re:I don't understand

[crucini]

The fourth reason is that the house absorbed a lot of energy. If you look at the picture, the satellite must have been greatly cushioned in its landing compared to a satellite that hit the ground. So maybe the Chinese cleverly guided the descending capsule to hit a four-story building.

Re:I don't understand

[RALE007]

Someone please explain this to me. Did they plan on crashing the thing into this guy's roof?

Yes, that was the exact purpose of the mission. You see the guy had been evading taxes, and well, the Chinese can be known to go a bit overboard when making a point. It was a two part mission really, to show how precisely they can land their satellites, and to remind the population that they had better pay their f*&#ing taxes. Any other bright questions you need answers to?

Re:I don't understand

[qbwiz]

What, don't they know about digital photography yet?

Re:I don't understand

[rts008]

Don't blame them, I wouldn't want to go into the desert either. This way it's easy to locate!

Re:I don't understand

[DAldredge]

A digital cam isn't as high as resolution as the best film. See, companies lauch sats like this for testing of emergency backups in the event that an enemy takes out their main spysats with ASAT weapons.

It was more likely a test or china trying to get a view of something with out us knowing.

Re:I don't understand

[Eternally optimistic]

I think they mean that the satellite is ok, which is the main thing. After all, they only had the one satellite, but they have more apartments. And more Chinese guys. Isn't it wonderful how the goverment cares for their people in China ?

Re:I don't understand

[ThJ]

Mod parent up! XD

Re:I don't understand

[808140]

Of course Mandarin Chinese, spoken by essentially all of the PRC, is rich in retroflexes and has a distinctive l sound, which means that Mandarin speakers pronounce the English r very well (better than many Europeans, in fact, with little practice) and certainly distinguish it from the l. Some places where the l is not pronounced as an l but is instead retroflexing (walk) sometimes sound r like, but that's the extent of it.

Oh, I see, you were refering to the Japanese, who have neither an r nor an l and can't easily distinguish them.

But I guess on Slashdot, all rice-eating yellow-heads are the same, eh?

Understand that I don't think there's anything politically incorrect about making fun of the Japanese for their ridiculous pronunciation, or making fun of the Chinese for their shortcomings.

But let's get one thing straight: Japan is not China, any more than Poland and Spain are the same country.

The two languages aren't even in the same macrophylum, for crying out loud. This just makes you look retarded. It's like the guy who doesn't understand why he can't run Safari on his Windows machine. Not funny, just ignorant.

Re:I don't understand

[incabulos]

Thats sounds like something Rumsfeld might say after hes bombed another wedding. I mean, if the guidance systems are as accurate as he indicates, does that mean the bombing/crash landing was deliberate and intentional?

Perhaps this is the chinese govts creative way of dealing with the termite problems of their citizens.

Re:I don't understand

[ubercow]

In other news.. astronaut recruitment for the newly founded Chinese space program has gone down 15%. Film at 11.

Re:I don't understand

[superyooser]

Thats sounds like something Rumsfeld might say after hes bombed another wedding.

Here's a picture of that incident.

Re:I don't understand

[OhHellWithIt]

I think they meant the landing zone was in Chinese territory.

My guess is that had the Chinese government been in charge of Skylab, it would have been considered a "retrievable space station".

Re:I don't understand

[Dan D.]

Did they plan on crashing the thing into this guy's roof?

Well, how else would you cushion the blow? Giant balloon thingies?

Re:I don't understand

[TanNewt]

Easier to find. Just wait for someone to report something falling on their house.

it could get worse...

[selderrr]

in belgium, some 10 years ago, a russian Mig bonkered into a house after the pilot did an emergency jump out some 5000km away above russian territory... Imagine sitting at the table and all of a sudden a warhead plops on your plate. not to mention the secret service eating your guts out 20mins later.

I'm too lazy, otherwise I would google some info about it. No doubt soe karma whore will do it below

Re:it could get worse...

[Naito]

you mean this?

http://mm.iit.uni-miskolc.hu/Data/Winx/stories/a cc id23.html

Re:it could get worse...

[IWK]

...who ordered the whore?...

Re:it could get worse...

[Fallen Andy]

I'll try not to laugh too much. But, imagine being a kid able to say that you have piece of something from space (worth lot's of karma)....

Sigh. All I had in my day was a measly Death's head hawk moth...
(and we hadn't seen Silence of the Lambs - 20 years too early).

Re:it could get worse...

[Anonymous Coward]

Posted anon to avoid the karma:

"The strange accident of the MiG-23

04 July, 1989.

From the Soviet airbase near Kolobzreg at the seashore of the Baltic Sea in Poland a MiG-23 took off for a training flight. After the take off the pilot, Colonel Skurigin realised that the afterburner of his plane stopped and the power of the engine begun to fall. The altitude at this time was about 130-150 m and the pilot believed that the descending aircraft is unable to fly any longer. Without turning the engine off the pilot ejected and landed safely with his parachute. To the great astonishment of the ground crew the position of the plane fixed and it flew away to the West. The autopilot kept the last direction of the plane. The aircraft was not armed but the ammunition for the 23 mm machine gun was onboard. The phantom plane left the airspace of the former East Germany and violated the West German airspace where it was intercepted and escorted a pair of American F-15s. As the F-15s didn't get permission to fire they let the aircraft flew away. France also alerted its Mirage fighters being in readiness with permission to fire if the phantom plane was dangerous for French built-up areas. Eventually it was unnecessary because after some 900 km the MiG-23 ran out of fuel and crashed in the area of Kortrijk city in Belgium ( NW of Belgium ). A house was ruined due to the crash and a 18 years old young man was buried under the ruins and died."

Re:it could get worse...

[imsabbel]

I was really amused by that story until i read the last line about the 18 year old that was killed...
I guess if shit happens, its most often not a laughing matter...

Re:it could get worse...

[mikael]

A similar thing happened in the UK; When air force planes were practising low flying, they accidently brushed the tops of the some trees, and knocked a sidewinder missile off one of the launch rails/pylons. After a hastily launched police search, the unarmed missile was found in the garden with the trees. Imagine hitting one of those with an electric lawnmower.

Re:it could get worse...

[Guppy06]

It still had the red star; it may not have had a pilot, but it was still property of the Soviet government. I doubt the Soviets hated France as much as they did the US, so France's fighters were probably the only ones that were able to get away with downing the plane without some sort of "international incident" (i. e. nuclear war).

Re:it could get worse...

[TummyX]

Me too. Sounds like they had heaps of time to think of a way to down it without killing that 18 year old.

Re:it could get worse...

[infolib]

In Denmark a weekend cottage was obliterated by a missile fired by a danish frigate (no one hurt). It became known as the "Oops missile" after a danish newspaper carried an aerial photo of the devastated dwelling with the caption OOOOPS!.

A friend who has served in the navy told me that the standard bearing for non-targeted missiles was 123 degrees, and that the missile would seek out any large structures to target as its fuel ran out. The bearing and range would have had it target the residential blocks in the Bay of Koege :-O Fortunately it didn't make it across the shore - it didn't rise fast enough and struck the empty houses.

Re:Luck

[GeekyMike]

Its not the hitting of the residence, its that the tenant wasnt flattened as well

Hmm...

[physicsphairy]

"People's Daily's article on the subject nothing seems to have gone wrong."

"In China, a returning satellite crashed into a house"

They built a satellite designed to crash into a house? OK...

Re:Hmm...

[Kredal]

I thought that only happened in Oz?

Ah well.

Definitely insured

[travdaddy]

Apparently inhabited by an eternal optimist: 'The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year.'

Hmm, must have had good insurance... and a crappy house.

Re:Definitely insured

[jsm008us]

China is communist, the government will repair the home.

Maybe here in florida we should put our hurricane shutters up in case they mess up and a sattelite or shuttle decides to pay us a little visit.

What would be worse though? It landing in a hacker's home (h4x0r: a sattleitzor landed in my h0us3!!! I R TEH 1337! Har Har! :D).

Re:Definitely insured

[Klowner]

Well, China is a communist country right? So, perhaps this person thinks that everyone gets the same amount of luck on an annual basis, and by having a satellite crash into his house, then all of his yearly alloted Bad Luck(tm) has been used up, leaving only government issued Good Luck(tm). Then add a sprinkle of karma, and I think I see where this nut is coming from.

Re:Definitely insured

[Justin205]

I can imagine the insurance company when buying the insurance...

"Do you want the satellite coverage, sir?"

The roof is on fire!

[Kenshin]

We don't need no water, let the motherf***er burn!

Burn, motherf***er, burn!

Re:The roof is on fire!

[jrockway]

This is slashdot. Saying "fuck" is okay here.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[Kenshin]

Who's dumber? Me, or you for spending all the time to type that up in an effort to lecture me on some socio-cultural cliché?

Don't like stars? Ok, fine, you stupid-ass motherfucker.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[GeekyMike]

Why would it be not ok to say "motherfucker", but fine to state that somebody is having an intimate physical relationship with their mother that includes regular sexual intercourse

Actually there is no assurance that the motherfucker in question is actually fucking his/her mother. They could be fucking anyone's mother. It all depends on perspective of the word and i guess the extent that you associate yourself with Oedipus.

This message was brought to you by the color red, the number 3 and the word fuck.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[Saeger]

Even if it is OK here, a lot of people think it's somehow "sophisticated" or "professional" to self-censor. They're usually over 30 years old and have been conditioned such that never offending and never breaking any rule is a good way to stay safe and keep a job.

--

Re:The roof is on fire!

[tylernt]

Oh, Belgium.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[SydShamino]

Maybe he bought the censored version, and that's how he thinks the song goes!

Re:The roof is on fire!

[momerath2003]

His UID is less than 20% of yours. Don't you think he knows that?

Re:The roof is on fire!

[powerlinekid]

Well that is fucking boring.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[Guppy06]

Just because you can doesn't mean that you should.

Re:The roof is on fire!

[jelle]

Thank you for being so honest, please keep it up and maybe then you will get the point eventually.

I wonder...

[FiReaNGeL]

I wonder if China is deliberately crashing its satellites on its territory for secrecy reasons... maybe it was a spy satellite or something?

Seriously, given China size, they should have been able to find a decent landing spot... it isn't THAT densely populated is it?

Re:I wonder...

[pe1chl]

About 5 times more densely than the USA, and 15 times more densely than Russia.
Maybe that explains it?

Re:I wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

It all depends on which region of China you are referring to in your post. Living in the easternmost provinces of China one will find space to be at a premium considering the density. As one moves further out west there's more land but at the reduction of the quality of life.

Re:I wonder...

[jelle]

IIRC, China has vast open spaces such as a large desert that would be much more suitable to land a space probe.

Re:I wonder...

[dapyx]

Yes, they have deserts larger than the state of Texas, mountainous areas almost uninhabited as big as California. (see the NASA WorldWind)

However, retrieving it from there might be a pain in the ass.

They probably aimed at a region not very far from the civilization, but they obviously missed.

Re:I wonder...

[Vicsun]

They also have huge unpopulated territories to the west.

Re:I wonder...

[tanveer1979]

It expmains nothing. There are wast tracts in china which are totally barren. India is 2 times more densly populated than china yet there are uninhabited areas which run hundreds of kms

Re:I wonder...

[alonsoac]

About 5 times more densely than the USA, and 15 times more densely than Russia.
Maybe that explains it?


Even if it is more densely populated they are probably concentrated in some areas and there are areas where no one lives. It shouldn't be too difficult to pick a place, probably they missed the target.

Re:I wonder...

[pe1chl]

The figures were from the population density of the country as a whole. But of course these are all big countries, with dense cities and less dense country areas.

The chinese sure are optimists

[kuzb]

Only in China would someone take a large hunk of metal destroying their home as a sign of good luck. The rest of us would probably be thinking that some higher power hates us.

Re:The chinese sure are optimists

[leonids]

But the lawyers go unfed. Oh that's assuming they have lawyers.

Re:The chinese sure are optimists

[scat-cat]

Nah, over here we would say "Thank the good Lord, nobody was hurt. Its' a miracle"

Re:The chinese sure are optimists

[earthforce_1]

This kind of reminds me of that scene in "The world according to Garp" where Garp and his wife are just about to purchase a home, when a plane crashes into it. He immediately signs the contract, saying that it couldn't possibly happen twice.

Re:The chinese sure are optimists

[hookedup]

i'm sure you'd lose more than your house for that..

Re:The chinese sure are optimists

[identity0]

...or, only in China would the state punish someone severely for criticizing an obvious government screwup like this.

Of course, he could actually think it's lucky. Who knows, maybe he stole some parts of it and is going to sell it on the black market. And the state might actually compensate him well for damages, since this is so high profile.

Misleading summary (surprise surprise)

[psoriac]

In case anyone else interpreted the summary as saying that nothing went wrong with the deorbiting of the satellite, I'd like to point out that the second article only says that nothing went wrong during the mission. It makes no mention of the crash.

Regardless, China probably figures that deorbiting satellites into sparsely populated areas is perfectly safe because really, if it takes out a family or two, well, there's more where they came from. (Note to angry reactionists: I'm Chinese.)

Re:Misleading summary (surprise surprise)

[Detritus]

On 1996-02-15, a failed launch dropped a Long March 3B rocket on villages surrounding the Xichang space center. Unofficial reports put the damage and death toll much higher than figures (6 dead, 57 injured) reported by government news agencies. The concept of range safety seems to have been foreign to the Chinese space agency.

In Communist China.....

[reality-bytes]

In Communist China the satellite lands on you!

.....oh wait

Re:Out of luck

[ikea5]

"Does China even have a lottery?"

Sure they do, and the first prize is a baby boy.

Subcontracted...

[Anonymous Coward]

Must of subcontracted to the same guys who outsourced parts for Genesis.

Chinese Contractor: Here! We have parts left over from american space craft!
Chinese Space Agency: Well, don't just stand there, send them to us!

[3 Years Later]

Genesis: The ground sure is coming up fast! I wonder why my chutes have gon.... GAK!

[2 Month Later]

Chinese Space Craft: The ground sure is coming up fast! I wonder why my chutes have gon.... GAK!

Re:Subcontracted...

[pegasustonans]

I wonder why my chutes have gon.... GAK!

Yeah, I hate it when my chutes go "GAK!" It kind of reminds of that squirrel that went "Weee!" I hate it when that happens...

Re:Subcontracted...

[corngrower]

The problem that caused the Genesis mission to crash was reported today as resulting from two gravity sensing switches being installed backwards. The problem was traced to the engineering drawings for genesis, which had them backwards. The technicians installed them as the engineering drawings indicated.

Could have been worse

[crankyspice]

The apartment tenant could have been killed by the toilet seat from the deorbiting Mir station, and be cursed to forever walk the undead world known as http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348913/Toilet Seat Girl...

Political opposition

[Raynach]

Well, that's ONE way to silence political opposition in a repressive regime...

Maybe other countries will take notice and start expanding their space programs... just to drop "errant" pieces of spacecraft on dissenters.

That's better than the Russians!

[djblair]

"According to the People's Daily's article on the subject nothing seems to have gone wrong."

Obviously SOMETHING went wrong, and the Chineese Govt doesn't want to fess up.

There's nothing like good old government-controlled press. I'm glad to see communism is still alive and well.

Re:That's better than the Russians!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you mean like FOX-News?

Re:That's better than the Russians!

[Nutria]

Instead of "Insightful", it should be modded "Well, Duh!"

Re:That's better than the Russians!

[DiscoDave_25]

There's nothing like good old government-controlled press. You mean like Fox right...

Re:Out of luck

[Xaoswolf]

One would think that having a satelite crash into your house would actually show that you were having bad luck...

Of course it was a spy satellite!

[Anonymous Coward]

China's spy satellites still use film. They deorbit them in order to retrieve the images.

Re:Of course it was a spy satellite!

[Nutria]

China's spy satellites still use film. They deorbit them in order to retrieve the images.

And is an indication of ChiCom technological non-prowess.

A spiffy spysat would encrypt the images (triple 2048-bit ElGamal?) then beam them down to ground stations.

Re:Of course it was a spy satellite!

[psavo]

A spiffy spysat would encrypt the images (triple 2048-bit ElGamal?) then beam them down to ground stations.

... and then magically disappearated in puff of sparkly smoke 5sec later.

Re:Of course it was a spy satellite!

[Alsee]

China's spy satellites still use film.

You say that like it's old. Actually this is a recent upgrade to Chinese spy satellite technology. They used to send up a guy with a sketch pad.

The reason they moved to photo technology is that the sketch quality and style was too inconsistant, as they needed to obtain a new and different sketch artist for each mission.

-

Eternal optimist? Nah.

[sssmashy]

'The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year.

Eternal optimist? I doubt it. I'm sure the villager bit his tongue, and wisely refrained from voicing his true opinion.

It's all relative. A broken roof is a minor inconvenience compared to ten years in prison for criticizing the government.

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah.

[NanoGator]

"It's all relative. A broken roof is a minor inconvenience compared to ten years in prison for criticizing the government."

Or maybe he was just thinking "What are the odds of me having something happen that's WORSE that my house being destroyed by a satellite this year?"

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah.

[Zerbey]

A satellite landing on you and killing you is infinitely less preferable than it landing on something else. Even if that happens to be your house.

It's all relative, like you said.

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah.

[Necroist]

Don't think too much about it. Not everything is a "Chinese Conspiracy".

I'm Chinese (not China Chinese) and in our culture, bird shitting on your head, or you're stepping on dog shit, is considered good luck.

Of course, we don't go all out to find birds to get shit on, or dog shit to step on :P

Hell, we're advised to buy lottery straight after the incident.

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah.

[808140]

You guys are so funny. I live in China. China is absolutely nothing like "criticize the government and get 10 years in prison." I know that American propaganda is partially at fault for all of this, but for some reasons Americans imagine China hasn't change at all since Mao was chairman or something.

While it's true that freedom of speech is not guaranteed, the press actually has a fair bit of leeway in what it says about the government. Censorship in China isn't preemptive: most Slashdotters seem to think that everything that gets published needs to go to some central bureau of propaganda or something before it can hit the streets. This is not so. Consider that this nation has the largest economic growth rate in the world and will probably pass the US in economic clout in the next decade -- making them the next economic superpower. Communication is necessary for this kind of development -- despite what you may think about China, it's actually very much a market capitalist country and most development is happening in the private sector, so being able to say what you want is pretty important.

Of course, there is censorship in China, it just works in a preventive way. The bureau tells newspapers what sensitive issues should not be discussed. If the ministry of propaganda hasn't told you you can't discuss it, it is nominally free game (within reason, but then it's usually pretty obvious that you shouldn't spend too much time unduly criticizing the very powerful -- although this does happen quite a bit). So for example, the Chinese government position on Taiwan is that Taiwan is part of China, and that the Taiwanese people consider themselves Chinese and want to return to China; that it is the government that is responsible for Taiwanese seperatism, that this view is unpopular with the locals, and that the US keeps those seperatists in power. This, of course, is a massive distortion of the truth, but despite that, you won't find anything that disagrees with it in the press. This is a well known issue.

During SARS we had a similar situation where the Ministry ordered censorship of the extent of infection, attempted to claim that the disease originated in the west, and so on. This decision (mostly traced back to Jiang Zi Min) backfired big time though, and was a major reason that Jiang, who despite no longer officially being president was still extremely influential in Chinese politics at the time (by virtue of his post as "Supreme Commander of the Military") fell out of favor. Hu Jin Tao favors a much more open approach to these things.

It's true that none of this is ideal; censorship sucks. But as an American who reads a lot of foreign news as well as a lot of local news, I must say that the folks back home are getting a rather different picture painted for them by the American media than the rest of the world gets vis a vis world events. Perhaps this isn't government-induced censorship; perhaps it is corporate censorship. But when only a few companies control essentially all the media, you have a situation where it is possible for a small group of very wealthy, powerful people to greatly influence public opinion (and by extension government policy).

Despite what people like to say, China is not a totaletarian dictatorship. It is a one-party system, and this is rather different. Elections are held, just within the party, and they happen at different levels. Anyone can become a member of the CCP just as anyone can become a member of the Democrats or Republicans.

The longer I live here the less difference I see between a two party system and one party system. What makes America great is the constitution, not its politicians. It's amazing that even with such a great document to start from, we still manage to fuck so much stuff up.

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah.

[blushadow]

That's pretty pathetic that you're an American living in Communist China. China has a horrible human rights record and freedom of speech is nonexistent, no wonder Hong Kong dreaded reunifying to China and Taiwan doesn't want to. Not to mention the living conditions are below par and downright terrible in more rural areas.

Learn more in JSR's space report

[Lord Satri]

This page is one place to learn more. It's Jonathan's Space Report, a reference monthly newsletter from a guy working at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

It tells us FSW 20 - The FSW recoverable satellite launched by China on Sep 27 returned to Earth at 0248 UTC on Oct 15, falling through the roof of a house in the village of Penglai, Sichuan province

Re:Validity of info?

[nuclear305]

"Why should we believe this information coming out of a country renowned for its "editing of the truth"?"

And what purpose would destroying a house, taking a photograph of a fake satelite sitting in aforementioned house serve?

Re:Out of luck

[HybridJeff]

One would think so wouldnt one. But one would be wrong.

Loony Toons..

[Mastadex]

Are we sure this guy didnt have a really big high powered ACME magnet pointed straight up??

Re:Loony Toons..

[meringuoid]

Are we sure this guy didnt have a really big high powered ACME magnet pointed straight up??

No, but later reports indicate that he's been visited by a giant spooky rabbit, and has been researching the theoretical basis of time travel.

Now thats what I call DirecTV!

[XeXeN]

Is that their new dedicated subscription?

Re:Validity of info?

[gl4ss]

*And what purpose would destroying a house, taking a photograph of a fake satelite sitting in aforementioned house serve?*

well, the funny thing about is that they say that their satellites drop where they intend them to drop...

Not quite an optimist

[Anonymous Coward]

I imagine the owner of the home was speaking in Chinese, so the translator is likely the optimist.

Re:Validity of info?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why should we believe this information coming out of a country renowned for its "editing of the truth"?

this didnt happen in the US, did it?

Re:You believe what you read?

[kingkade]

I think that if this happened in the US, the guy would be on MSNBC. And probably put the fucking thing on ebay. Maybe suing the government for rights to it since it landed on his property and maybe even suing them for tresspassing. All the while, Johnny Cochran is speaking at a press conference for him saying something clever. All this commotion would, of course, ensure his 15 minutes and his appearance on Larry King promoting his new book, When Satellites Attack. Maybe even a movie's in the works. Somthing to think about.

Ohhh

[Anonymous Coward]

So thats why the box at the end of my dish is called a satellite receiver...

Re:Ohhh

[jcuervo]

So thats why the box at the end of my dish is called a satellite receiver...

Well, yeah. You put soap in a soap dish, wine in a wine glass... satellites in satellite dishes.

Re:Eternal optimist? Nah. MOD UP

[ricochet81]

and since when is it a good idea to treat government controlled news as a news source. Be careful ./ers.

returning to earth.......

[bendsley]

i guess the chinese didn't want to be outdone by the US crashing a probe into the Nevada desert.

Not just the chinese

[ssand]

It's not just the chinese Space agency. If you look at nasa, and other space angencies, all have been riddled by some sort of issue, many of them similar, such as the incident with one of the mars rover, the space dust from the sun that failed to deploy its parachutes, or when one of Nasa's ships was unfortunately destroyed upon reentry.

Re:Not just the chinese

[cyfer2000]

And after all of these incidents, "Nonething seems go wrong", untill the final report is out.

Re:Crappy Chinese-made products

[jrockway]

The iPod is made in China. I think it's not a matter of it being Chinese so much as it being cheap. You buy cheap stuff, you get cheap stuff. That's how life works. :)

Obviously,

[quarkscat]

the crashing satellite improved his
home's Feng Shui. As a bonus, it
also drove out all the evil spirits.
Give the man a break, already.

Friends and family

[MMaestro]

Or he really could have 'good luck' for the year. After all, if you suddenly heard that your brother or your friend's house suddenly burned down with no insurance, chances are you'd at least let him sleep over your house for a couple days. This is China where family is still considered to be the center, not the USA where family is just what you leech off of till you get a job/till you get kicked out.

Re:Friends and family

[fbg111]

Perhaps I misunderstand, but what does any of that have to do with having good luck for a year?

Re:Friends and family

[MMaestro]

Picture this : You're a chinese worker, and you do fairly well. Small home, family, job. All of the sudden, your home gets burned down. What do you do?

Call the insurance company? Doable, but you're still out of a home for no less than a month. Rent an apartment? Again doable, but still takes time. Move into a hotel/motel? Possible, but this is China chances are you don't have a car to drive back and forth from work to hotel/motel everyday, not to mention the threat of theft.

The most logical answer : Get help from your friends or family. 0-3 months is nothing if your house gets burned down. Some people do that just because they get kicked out of their apartments by their girlfriends/boyfriends/parents/landlord. 3-6 months is a bit annoy, but this is China, I doubt real estate is cheap. 6-12 months, you should be getting ready or ready to move out the moment you get a new place. Till then, enjoy Chinese hospitality and enjoy your family's/friend's company. One year is nothing when you look at American habits. If you know anyone who lives in a big city, chances are you've heard stories of "this roommate who's lives with another guy I know for years."

Re:Friends and family

[djupedal]

An object fell from the sky, finding his home among millions of others - It is a unique event that can only bring further focus from Heaven on him and his family.

It's an 'odds' thing, that is viewed as only being favorable, considering the routine lack of any luck (or fortune) at all that most people otherwise enjoy.

Re:Friends and family

[fbg111]

An object fell from the sky, finding his home among millions of others - It is a unique event that can only bring further focus from Heaven on him and his family.

I see your point. Hopefully being singled out in such a manner is truly a sign that Heaven intends for you to live in interesting times, at least for another year. But frankly I'd be more inclined to see a satellite crashing on my house out of 1.2 billion other people's houses as a sign that bad things are in store for me. As you imply, what are the chances?

Communist News Translation Service

[Anonymous Coward]

The satellite destroyed the building in Sichuan province, but officials say no-one was hurt.

Officials say that no one with families powerful enough to demand reperations from the government was hurt.

"The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year," the tenant of the wrecked apartment was quoted as saying by the newspaper.

"The satellite landed in our neighbor's home. Since the government is making us say we lived there, maybe they'll make sure we have good luck this year to keep us from blabbing."

For the benefit of the humor-impaired and tinfoil-hat crowd... I'm joking.

Only if it's shit from the foo bird

[SnappingTurtle]

Hence the saying "If the foo shits, where it".

:-)

Doesn't this remind you of...

[nusratt]

George Bush?

"According to the People's Daily's article on the subject nothing seems to have gone wrong."

Just like Iraq...

Smart guy

[sandalwood]

Some people are wondering why this guy made such a silly comment. Well, imagine if he said "Goddammit, what the hell does the government here think they're doing?"

We get used to saying that kind of thing here in the US, but elsewhere, you just can't do that.

Re:Smart guy

[francium de neobie]

If he said "Goddamnit" then "I'm having such a beautiful day!" will appear on the news

House for sale.

[Eevee]

It's a fixer-upper, but it gets excellent satellite reception.

Re:House for sale.

[rts008]

LOL-OUCH!:rib cramps OUCH!LOL

Re:House for sale.

[RobertB-DC]

If there was ever a time for Slashcode to conveniently fail and give a score of 6. If I still had mod points from last week, I'd have given another one to this one, just for good measure.

Actually, what *would* help is if some mods put +1, Insighful on it. That gives the guy Karma, *and* registers this as possibly the Funniest. Post. Ever.

Grammar Nazi alert

[System.out.println()]

LOSERS.

LOOSERS is not a word. You sound like a damn fool when you say it wrong.

lose = opposite of win or find
loose = opposite of tight

Re:Grammar Nazi alert

[Munelight]

Biff?

Re:Grammar Nazi alert

[System.out.println()]

Glad someone caught the reference :)

Uhhhh somehow I doubt he said that voluntarily....

[deglr6328]

Or said it at all, for that matter.

"The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year"....."oh look! the excess hydrazine is spilling from the ruptured fuel tanks! What gloriousness, the great revolution truly has delivered blessings from heaven upon us! A thousand thanks to you Wen Jiabao!"....."my family's belongings are pulverized and burning with such splendid red flame! such must be divine providence showing we have truly reaped the benefits of the Great Leap Forward! We are so thankful for all the wonderfull fortune bestowed upon us from the eternally benevolent Great Government! I only wish I could have been present in the house at the time this wonderful sanctification occured!!!"

His quote was censored..

[Deal-a-Neil]

..what Huo Jiyu REALLY said was, "Damn this government and their sweat shop mass production satellites! If there were only democracy, capitalism and competitive markets in the Chinese aerospace industry, this wouldn't have happened to me... WHY ME?? Fortune comes in threes, so I can't WAIT for what's in store for my next two."

Re:His quote was censored..

[TheLink]

Yah, and AFTER that he got his good luck - free food and lodging courtesy of the Chinese Government...

After all his apartment is ruined right? ;)

Lucky?

[d3ity]

Where does that idiot get off thinking he's going to have good luck this year. Oh, crap, wait. Confusious say he who gets hit by satelite have direct TV free for one year.

Of course its good luck...

[warrantyVoidIfRemove]

"It's been pre-disastered!" - Garp

Re:Validity of info?

[Nutria]

Although many many disagree, the US government doesn't actually control the news media.

Otherwise, Monicagate never would have happened, and Algore would be President.

Re-entry capsule: what's inside?

[aheikkinen]

According to sources mentioned above, the capsule is a re-entry vehicle and it stayed completely intact. Actually it came down via parachute.

That satellite from which this capsule was dropped off has been up there for only last 18 days. My guess is that it hasn't got anything to do with science and very much with military intelligence.

For good part of the cold war both US and USSR used capsules to relay back intel images as radio and camera technology was not yet enough mature to do the job right. The chinese might still be (atleast partially) using robust methods which are proven to work - same with their manned missions.

People managing their space program are definately calculating re-entry trajectories carefully so they know atleast approximately where the retrieval point is. No way they would drop a capsule by accident to populated areas.

I'd say it was a hastened retrieval of latest intelligence, someone needed those images very badly and was ready to take the risk.

Just my two cents.

Re:Re-entry capsule: what's inside?

[aheikkinen]

Oil and Gas Exploration in Disputed Waters Causes Tension Between China, Japan

Re:Validity of info?

[Ellis D. Tripp]

[quote]Although many many disagree, the US government doesn't actually control the news media.[/quote]

Correct. Here in the land of the "free market", private corporations control both the news media AND the government. Much more efficient, you see...

Killer terrorist satellites from SPACE!#%

[jcuervo]

They missed, though. :P

What are the chances

[dfrick]

that a satellite crashed on Chinese soil and didn't hit a person?

New device for TV Piracy

[IvanD]

So the guy thought he could get the signal for free...

I heard about devices against piracy... I think it's a little bit extreme.

Just sugar to satisfy censors

[mikelang]

Censors needed to assure, that there is nothing bad said about Chinese satelite and newspaper wanted to give the news. :-)

So they put a lot of sugar to balance the facts.

It may be hard to understand, if you always lived with a right to free-speech.

While in the west...

[jangobongo]

...we would be looking to $ue the pants off anyone and everyone involved. And the lawyers would be calling, wanting a $hare. I guess some would still consider that to be good luck.

Gotta love Chinese propaganda.

[SeaDour]

"The satellite landed in our home. Maybe this means we'll have good luck this year," a commmunist government official---ER, I mean, the tenant of the wrecked apartment said.

no no no

[Anubis350]

in communist china they deorbit YOU and send you to the sattelite... :-P

Jeez, slashdot, cant even get a joke right? I guess if you want sosmething done properly, you have to do it yourself

Astrology tradition

[Maljin Jolt]

According chinese traditional astrology, such event is considered very lucky, because of involvment of heaven element. So the guy's reasoning is very rational in paradigm of his culture. All those of you americans who are slashing and bashing chinese government propaganda in this thread, think at first about your own culture paradigms and government propaganda rooted in them, they are far more dangerous to anybody as well as to you yourself.

Re:Astrology tradition

[glesga_kiss]

if(numberWhiteChristians / totalPopulation > 0.5)
usaLikesYou = true;
else
usaLikesYou = false;
fi

That's all there is to it. The US is a heavily racist country that uses extensive propaganda to keep it's population in check. Sounds a little like China to me!

Re:Astrology tradition

[Lost Race]

According chinese traditional astrology, such event is considered very lucky, because of involvment of heaven element. So the guy's reasoning is very rational in paradigm of his culture.

LOL, "astrology" and "rational" back to back.... Generally I like to give each person the benefit of the doubt so I assume the guy's words were mistranslated or taken out of context, that he meant something like, "Things can only get better from here." But maybe you're right, maybe the guy is an idiot just like most people everywhere. Cultural paradigm, man, you crack me up.

No no no, you have it all wrong

[DigiShaman]

It was the house that blew up and knocked the satellite out of the sky.

In soviet China, houses crash satellites...

What about...

[wertarbyte]

..the stunt helicopter pilots? And did the chinese use the same sensors as the american Genesis mission?

I am sure they'll get some money to rebuild

[Anonymous Coward]

However, they have to respect the rules of the game. If they criticise the government they wont get anything and even go to jail. What's the big deal? The same happens all over the world, everybody has to respect the local rules and customs and then everything is OK. The only difference is that there are different rules in different countries.

My first 41 years of my life, until 1990, I lived in an East European country. I was just a regular citizen, I was not a Party member but I did not mind communism at all. I knew that if I respected the rules of the game, I would be safe, I would be treated correctly and nothing would happen to me. Westerners have some strange ideas that life was unsafe, there were no rules, everybody could go to jail, etc. FALSE! IF YOU RESPECTED THE (UNSPOKEN) RULES YOU WERE FINE!. You could make all political jokes you wanted, tell them to your friends, etc it did not matter. If you crossed the line and tried to broadcast them to strangers. (illegal radio, flyers, whatever) of course you went to jail. Anyway I was too busy with my life (like almost everydody else) and thus I decided it was not worth becoming a revolutionary. Otherwise my life was not that different from that of a westerner. I dated girls, went to parties, got married, got two children, etc. I had a house, a car, went every year on vacation, etc. Life was not great but was not bad either (it could have been much worse). From colleagues who went on bussiness in North Korea we heard all kinds of horror stories, no private life, living in dorms, eating in mensas, etc. That would have been horrible! Nothing like that happened in my country, we had our own private, normal lifes. The only thing we were supposed to do was to respect ther rules, it was not a big deal.

Re:I am sure they'll get some money to rebuild

[gl4ss]

on what you base that they'll get some money to rebuild? on that it would have happened during the better years of the eastern block? chinese goverment has before basically just told millions of people to move out because their village will be flooded. they lack the safeguards you'd except and which were(somewhat) in place in the eastern european communist satellite nations. basically the bottom line for them tends to be that all that matters is the bottom line, screw the people as large.

* The only thing we were supposed to do was to respect ther rules, it was not a big deal.*
that's what they told you, over and over again. that if you just sit tight they'll leave you alone. the trouble is, it didn't really work out like that for some people(when your cultural heritage for example is against those rules it gets tricky). .. and depending on the region you were in actually just receiving illegal radio could get you beaten. of course majority got along normally and could do what they wanted within certain limits, but that's hardly an excuse for the things the system allowed to happen for those who didn't get along - there's a difference in a little monetary fine, a savage beating, a trip to siberia and a state approved lynching, all of which could happen from the same crime depending which country you were living in.

I'm sure you could be 'fine' and 'happy' even in north korea if you're LUCKY and "respect the unspoken rules", hell, i'm sure there's a little elite that's extremely happy with the situation - but that does NOT mean that the system works.

Re:I am sure they'll get some money to rebuild

[blue trane]

IF YOU RESPECTED THE (UNSPOKEN) RULES YOU WERE FINE!

This reminds me of the crack game in the US. If you shut up and did what you were supposed to (hustle, make moves, talk trash, pretend to be a big tough guy threatening violence all the time, ripping people off, committing crimes, pulling bait-and-switch moves, spending your earnings with the hos...), everything's cool and you get to smoke good crack. But if (like myself) you refused to play their game, you got served the bullshit cut with glue, ink, wax, rat poison, drano, whatever...

Anyways it doesn't have to be that way. Legalize the shit, regulate it, sell it in stores like beer, and you take most of that "unwritten" shit out of it.

The problem is, all that game with unwritten rules ends up taking up resources that might otherwise be more productively spent.

Re:I am sure they'll get some money to rebuild

[Anonymous Writer]

I knew that if I respected the rules of the game, I would be safe, I would be treated correctly and nothing would happen to me.

That sounds interesting, having grown up myself under the cold war with the propaganda that people in communist countries were all miserable slaves to an evil regime. I recall growing up with the belief that it wasn't a matter of "if" the world was going to end in a nuclear war, but "when". Now that I'm older, and I understand that whatever system people were a part of, they were all human beings with the same hopes in life, just in technically different economic systems.

But I'm curious to know how a communist system handled corruption. Even in countries that claim to have democracies and voting, dictatorships can arise and rig the democratic system. I grew up in such a country, where it was flaunted to be a democracy when in reality, it was a dictatorship where elections were rigged and political opponents assasinated.

Countries that practice, or at least pretend to practice democracy are supposed to have accountability that keeps corruption somewhat in check, at least to keep up appearances. However, how was this handled in a communist country? Even in democratic countries, people believe that if they follow the rules they'll be safe, until something happens and they find that they are helpless to the whims of a corrupt system. And this sort of thing does happen.

But in these countries, there are avenues for exposing the corruption when it reaches a critical mass, through protests and media exposure. I'm curious to know what recourse you would have in a communist system, if you found that somewhere high in the governmental beaurocracy, somone was abusing the system. For example, if the relative of a government official committed a crime against you, and the government official covered it up, what could you do for justice?

of course it's lucky

[gelfling]

what are the odds of that happening again??

It was ment to go like that...

[t_allardyce]

Nothing went wrong! Do you understand? NOTHING! The satellite was designed to do that, everything worked perfectly as planned. The Peoples Democratic Republic of China will defeat the imperialist Americans and her sisters! Ok now who was the head engineer on that satellite project, i want him shot before sun-down.

Agreed. But the mail...

[955301]

The real problem in China has nothing to do with the space programs precision in retrieving equipment from orbit.

It's the mail service; the flyer explaining to the house owner that they were intending to land the capsule in his courtyard hadn't been received yet.

Donnie Darko, anyone?

[bubkus_jones]

Did anyone else think of Donnie Darko (jet engine crashes into house, setting off chain of events. Weird movie).

Re:Donnie Darko, anyone?

[salvorHardin]

And in October, too!

I'll start a countdown of 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes and 12 seconds from the moment of impact until the end of the world/tangent universe.

Re:Donnie Darko, anyone?

[mrb000gus]

yea that was my first thought too. Wonder if time went mad after that...

Re:Donnie Darko, anyone?

[lbolla]

Donnie has been my first thought, too! Damn, do we all think the same way?

Johnny C.

[Rufus88]

All the while, Johnny Cochran is speaking at a press conference for him saying something clever.

Reporter: Mr. Cochran, why does your client feel that the government must pay the cost of this man's home repairs?

Cochran: If it falls from orbit, you must absorb it.

PRC engineering

[memodude]

Sounds like a testament to the quality of PRC engineering.

Re:PRC engineering

[InfiniteZero]

So by your logic, the Challenger, the Columbia, the Genesis etc. are testaments to the quality of USA engineering?

fishy

[wikinerd]

Just a year ago China was saying that it would build bases on Moon. And now one of their satellites crashed on someone's home.

there is something fishy here...

That'd be one DAMN big bird!!!

[syousef]

I'd rather be shit on by a bird than have my house hit by a Satellite. We're talking several order of magnitudes times the damage/impact on someone's life. I mean how big would the bird have to be to do the same amount of damage?? Godzilla vs The Mutant Chicken!

Optimistic because of another reason

[AtomicBomb]

I can imagine that guy is genuinely happy. Even the Chinese space agency is not deep pocket when compared with NASA, it is still much richer than the average local village and any citizen living in that sort of house.

The satellite's reentry capsule, which is orders of magnitude more expensive than that guys' house, can be now retrieved. The officiers, engineers and scientist were happy... They bought in the helicopter initially. But, the air movement generated is deemed a bit dangerous to the roof surrounding that house... Then they call in a specialist crane to take it out... None is cheap

That guy will be in very good mood if they promise to fix that guy's fairly fragile house. Only about $1000 will do....

was this the deal ...

[ReagansUndeadBrain]

... where some martial arts stuntmen from the Hong Kong film industry were going to catch the plummeting satellite in mid-air with a very large pair of chopsticks?

Re:Busted Media Logic.

[I_Love_Pocky!]

My point wasn't that major US media sources and state-run Chinese media sources are on the same level. My point was simply that you should read every news article with skeptisism because all media sources can have ulterior motives.

The post I was replying to seemed to be indicating that the information shouldn't be trusted simply because it came from a state-run media outlet in a communist country. My argument is that you shouldn't fully trust any news story regardless of source. Most news articles at least have some sliver of truth to them, and it is up to the discerning reader to decide what to believe.

In this case...

[bluGill]

In this case I'll bet he gets a better house, at no cost. Somehow this leaked out to the west. Maybe intentionally, maybe not. Either way though, now that it is out they want to do a press release in a few months about how much better his new house his. Show the world (and China) that they do take care of their own.

What would a house cost them? Not much compared to the rest of the budget. Give the guy a nice house, make sure the showers work (right there they are better than Italy, at least according to legand) and such. Gives the people a chance to see that once in a while they make minor mistakes in hard tasks (landing a satillite is hard, especially if you don't have a degree in physics, like most people), so they can be forgiven for not being perfect. Then they show they own up to the mistakes.

Re:In this case...

[dillon_rinker]

"Maybe intentionally, maybe not"

Those funny chinamen! They can't even de-orbit a satellite properly! No need to ramp up OUR space program!

Yes, I think it was intentional.

Great

[HazE_nMe]

Now we are living in a tangent universe and Frank is going to have to set up an ensurance trap for Donnie so that he can send the artifact back through the portal thereby saving the known universe.

Remembering history...

[tehanu]

Maybe the guy was just remembering the famous story of what happened 2000 years ago with the meteorite that landed during the First Emperor's time. Someone scrawled on it a curse to the First Emperor hoping that he'd die soon and in retaliation the Emperor ordered everyone in the village to be executed. So maybe the guy was thinking, "Well considering what happened *last* time something from space landed in someone's home and they criticised the government in response, maybe I'll just some inane comment about good luck instead..."

What I would do

[Lyrisoul]

If that was my apartment, i'd be dead. I wonder if any laws or a sudden coarse of action would take place to prevent such an event. Look what it took to kill Concorde. They are fortunate nobody was hurt.

Times are changing

[bursch-X]

I guess that's the 21st Century version of the sack of rice fallig over?

Shows you what all those violent video games are doing to mankind.

Recall

[Easy2RememberNick]

Call me old-fashioned but I don't like molten, radioactive satellites hitting my house at Mach 5.

Maybe their deceleration sensors were bought at the same place the one on Genesis was. Recall!

Re:Crappy Chinese-made products

[xcomm]

You are absolutely right with this:

>You buy cheap stuff, you get cheap stuff. That's how life works. :)

But, be asure that this image of China will shortly (10 years?) go away:

>Re:Crappy Chinese-made products

This was attached to every upcoming industrial nation long time before China. For example: Before 100 Years the UK used 'Made in Germany' as a bad label about crappy German products.

Probably

[antoy]

The man confessed to have uttered "How can things get any worse" a second before the satellite crashed into his house.

I'm confused.

[baudbarf]

Is anybody else astounded at the odds of a Chinese satellite crashing in China rather than an ocean or another country? I mean, what are the chances that a satellite would choose to crash in the very country from whence it came? Is there something about orbital physics that I don't know here?

Re:Crappy Chinese-made products

[blushadow]

It will always be crappily made as long as labor isa cheap and they don't give a damn about how well it's made.

Funny how..

[Anonymous Coward]

...any article about China turns into a China-bashing orgy.

I have a feeling it's not that we want to make another country look dumb, but rather to make ourselves feel racially or culturally superior, even if it's not justified. (which it never should be)

more likely..

[emmons]

They probably didn't want to shoot it down because a plane that crashes because it runs out of fuel is left much more intact than a plane with fuel that is shot down. The US would have wanted as much of the plane intact as possible in order to study its capabilities.

Re:more likely..

[dajak]

The Mikoyan MiG-23 Flogger dates from the 60's. We can safely assume that the NATO knows what it looks like, and the new NATO countries in Eastern Europe probably own or owned some of these things.

Most likely the less predictable debris of the plane was considered more dangerous than the plane itself.

Re:more likely..

[emmons]

It happened in 1989.

Re:more likely..

[dajak]

It happened in 1989.

I stand corrected. On the other hand, lots of export MiG-23's have been shot down by a.o the Israeli's in the 80s. Still the Soviet ones may have been particularly interesting because systems were very likely different.

Re:more likely..

[TurkishGeek]

The US already owned at least one Mig-23 operating out of Area 51 in the 1980's. Do a search for "General Robert Bond" on Google. Bond was due to retire shortly, and wanted to make a last flight in a Mig-23 before retirement. He lost control of the aircraft and died after ejecting. The fact that the aircraft was a Mig-23 was revealed many years after.

This happened in 1984, so the US already knew almost all there was to know about the basic Mig-23.

How convenient!

[Ivan Todoroski]

I was amazed to find a "Comment on the story" link at the bottom of the People's Daily article. Could it be? They would actually allow people to freely post their opinion on their prominent site?

Well, I wrote a comment asking why the minor fact of the satellite crashing through someone's freaking living room was silently ommited, but when I tried to submit it I got a page saying "Database query error"...

How convenient!

Re:How convenient!

[TheLink]

Yah, when u tried to comment the site tried to lookup your info but it wasn't in the Database.

Don't worry. Please remain where you are. Assistance will arrive shortly.

Remember: The Computer is your friend!

head asplode

[Dr. Cody]

In soviet China, houses crash satellites...

Your post is enough to prove to me that this day has nothing to offer. I'm going back to bed.

Re:head asplode

[DigiShaman]

Awwww. Cry me a river why don't ya.

Building it out ...

[j_w_d]

... cast iron helped as well.

Now you know

[R.Caley]

What to expect when your neighbour says he's having satelite installed.

Pity this doesn't work for MS-Windows.

[leonbrooks]

It would save so much grief!

Re:earlier references

[vipw]

who is this General Baucus? I can't find any information about his quitting, or even his existence, except for this allegation of quitting x-ray due to torture. I'd love to see the government spin but as near as I can tell his quitting is a hoax.

Haiku

[Anonymous Coward]

cherry blossom falls
like satellite onto roof
better luck next year

Re:China is only now doing what we did in the 1960

[InfiniteZero]

I love it when people try to play tit for tat and pretend everything works out.

China's space technology is 40 years behind.

I love it when people accusing someone of something while blissfully unaware of themselves having the same fault.

Just because China is doing things we did 40 years ago doesn't mean their technology is 40 years behind. (Pop quiz: find the "tit" and "tat" in the previous sentence.) A decade maybe, give or take, but 40 years? Don't forget that a lot of unknowns have been sorted out by us and the Soviets (and before that, by the Nazi Germans). China now has many of the matured technologies at their disposal.

The question is....

[PCrazee]

...can the owner of the house keep it? I allways wanted my own satellite. :)

spelling mistake

[zogger]

--my apologies. I rememered the story, but looking for the name I hit an incorrect spelling. Corrected it is General Rick Baccus. Google is still GIGO it appears ;p

Here is a Link to links about him.

World According to Garp

[joejor]

This reminded me more of the scene where Garp and his wife are househunting. A small plane crashes into the house they are looking at. Garp tells the agent they will take the house. His wife give him that look, to which Garp replies, "what are the chances of that happenning again?"

Re:Other western misunderstandings

[gl4ss]

what particular communist nation are you talking about, anyways? they had different views on different issues, and the amount of free thinking and life depending on where you lived. if you needed permits to travel _inside_ the nation and stuff like that.

*NOBODY TOLD YOU ANYTHING* you're not really into the many ways you can tell something to someone, are you? or are you really thinking that the goverment didn't use any propaganda means to make people think everything really is ok? part of the communist system was that they could say just about anything and still get away with it(and again, depending on where you lived you could get yourself even beaten if your kids 'snitched' you for watching western television and getting information through other channels than the officials).

besides, this is about CHINA, not some eastern-european ex-communist nation. in china you'd be hard pressed to get any benefits from the goverment, were it communist or not.

Re:Body count

[glesga_kiss]

A vote for Bush reduces the number of federally funded abortions, and therefore lives are saved.

It's all in your perspective. :)

True. It's a touch choice. Kill black people or kill white people. America's leaning on the whole "colour of skin" thing has been very clear for several hundred years. As long as it's "Johny Foreigner" (an old English WW2 phase), then it's OK to kill. Hell, it's not even killing, it's "collateral damage". Glad y'all cleared that one up. ;-)

By the way, Jesus ain't going to appeciate your "forget the war, his abortion stance is OK by me" excuse. You are still a murderer if you vote for Bush, straw men arguments be-damned. But hey, whatever makes you sleep well at night!! Just remember, the fear and anger you felt on 9.11 is the same fear and anger you are inflicting on the Iraqi people. And you wonder why they didn't welcome you with open arms?

This war is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Every US citizen should hang their head in shame, or in the case of Bush supporters, do us all a favor and DON'T BREED!! ;-)

Re:Body count

[anomaly]

Black versus white? What? I don't get it. Seems like a red herring to me.

WRT your straw man about "war is killing" therefore abortion is irrelevant - whatever helps *you* sleep at night.

WRT killing Iraqis, where are you getting your news? I've got friends who are or recently have been in Iraq, and they tell me that almost every Iraqi they've met has been thrilled to have the US there.

Many Iraqis are glad that a mass muderer and capricious dictator no longer rules their country with an iron fist. What about the number of people that Saddam won't kill now that he's incarcerated? Does that factor into your body count numbers? I seem to recall reading about recent uncovering of more mass graves in Iraq, or is that a straw man, too?

There are some there who are not happy about us being there. Largely those are the folks who have something to lose by having a freely elected government there. Those are the ones who are fighting us.

BTW - you're clubbing the US. From what country do you hail? It must be tough to live where you and your countrymen are right all of the time.

Re:Body count

[glesga_kiss]

Black versus white? What? I don't get it. Seems like a red herring to me.

Just saying that it's easier to accept casualties when the victims are far away and different from you. It's hard to identify with their problems. And that the US has a huge history of racism, which is currently focusing on Arabs right now.

"war is killing" therefore abortion is irrelevant - whatever helps *you* sleep at night

An unfortunate by-product of modern democracy. The system really stands very little chance about representing the people, with people being forced to accept huge divides based on things that are important to them. You obviously have a considered opinion on the matter of abortions, and I think it's a shame that you have to vote for the likes of G.W.Bush in order to make your opinion heard. I don't know Kerry's stance on the issue, but I'm guessing from your sentiment that he is pro-choice.

I've got friends who are or recently have been in Iraq

Likewise.

and they tell me that almost every Iraqi they've met has been thrilled to have the US there.

Then they are either lying or didn't get out much. Yes, the vast majority of Iraqi's are happy that Saddam has gone and most will freely admit that. The fact of the matter is that the people do not agree with how it was done. The US doesn't even control parts of Iraq at the moment, the situation is a military disaster. Western media is barely touching on it, and I'd imagine the US media would be a little pre-disposed with the election right now. Things are bleak in Iraq. Head on over to BBC News to see fair coverage of what's going on. Daily attacks. Pictures of kids dancing around buring military vehicles. It's a soldiers worst nightmare, Vietnam all over again, where you can't tell the innocent from the enemy.

And get this; one side-effect of modern medicine is that many more solidiers survive battlefield injurires and are returning home having lost body parts in-country. These numbers never make it on to the news. This site is just one I pulled from a google for "number of injured in iraq" claims:

Estimates on the number of US soldiers, sailors and Marines medically evacuated from Iraq by the end of 2003 because of battlefield wounds, illness or other reasons range from 11,000 to 22,000

Many Iraqis are glad that a mass muderer and capricious dictator no longer rules their country with an iron fist.

Absolutely. The number in my sig pertains to the number of non-combatant deaths, that's women and children to you and me. The site lists them all. Take a look. Then consider the dead collalition forces, around 4000 IIRC, but don't quote me on that! Then consider the number of dead Iraqi's who were either in the Army or took arms against the invasion. Then there are the terrorists who are thriving on the anti-US sentiment there. We're over 20,000 dead I'd reckon. In contrast, 9.11 claimed the lives of what, 3500 people and look at the outrage. We're back to my point on other peoples having less of a value of life in your eyes.

Ask yourself this...was it worth it? To remove a man that presented no threat, while as I type there are other men just like him doing the same things. Right now. Do something about them. Ah, no oil. And that's what it comes down to. The profits made by those close to the administration have been phenomenal. It is well documented that the invasion of Iraq was in planning prior to 9.11.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone can vote for Bush after the lies, mis-direction and outright failure of winning the peace in Iraq. Winning wars is easy, winning the peace isn't. The response to the invasion is as predicatable as it is tragic.

And so what about your opinion on abortion? Is Bush going to actually change anything? Abortion is a hot-potato

Re:Body count

[anomaly]

> Ah, no oil. And that's what it comes down to.
This argument makes little sense to me. In this case, let's assume that your premise is bang on. Where's the money? Who is getting the big money from Iraqi oil? We're not getting rich on this deal. Iraq is a substantial money-loser for years to come. Let's say that we get Iraqi oil production up, and we flood the market with 'our' oil that we stole. The price of oil would plummet.

There's simply no profit here. What we invest in infrastructure and rebuilding and securing that nation will *never* be repaid - under any circumstances.

Halliburton has made some money, but they also are one of the few companies in the world who can do some of the things that are being done in Iraq.

You're busting on GWB for not yet winning the peace? How long does it take? Look at Germany, Japan, Korea - It's ridiculous to suggest that we should be done with winning the peace in 18-24 months? Saddam spent decades killing everyone who expressed any leadership potential.

WRT "western media is barely touching on it" - It seems clear to me that the western media (in general) has no love for GW Bush. Don't you think that they would love to show the Iraq war as a disaster to get the scoop?

Abortion? Roe v. Wade was a bad compromise. The concept of viability as a test was always a slippery slope. Viability in 1972 was a *lot* later in pregnancy than it is today. With the advances in medical science that you mentioned, I can foresee a day in my lifetime when scientists will join a sperm and an egg and the baby grows to viability completely outside of a mother's womb.

When a sperm and egg join, there's little to call that other than human life. All that is required from that point forward to birth is food and shelter.

If you don't consider that human life, what is it? When does it make the leap from whatever you call it to human? How can you be sure of that?

I value human life, and I agree with you that it is easier to be more concerned about the grain of sand in my shoe than the millions starving in other countries on the other side of the planet. I agree that we need to think about the needs of other people, but how many of those people would have been killed by Saddam and his minions? How many of the non-combatant deaths would have happened stateside?

I think that it's likely that we will step into Iraq and into North Korea in the next 5 years, too.

Do you really believe that all of the elected officials are corrupt? I think that most issues are more complex than sound bites would have you believe.

I disagree with Kerry on some significant issues, but I don't think that he's corrupt. I think that he's sincere in his beliefs.

I think that GWB is a man who genuinely believes in what he has chosen to do. I think that he has integrity, and wants to do what he really believes is best for the nation and the world.

It's easy to accuse politicians of being corrupt, and many are, but it seems disingenuous to think that some are not driven by higher motives.

Respectfully,
Anomaly

Re:Validity of info?

[Nutria]

I bet you dont see this things in the US

To make the leap from "Army PAO controls what soldiers can say to reporters" to "the government controls all the media in the USA" is so totally brainless, as to leave me speechless.

Fortune cookie message

[Muhammar]

"You will have good luck this year - a magnificent satellite will soon land in your home too"

Re:Body count

[glesga_kiss]

This argument makes little sense to me. In this case, let's assume that your premise is bang on. Where's the money? Who is getting the big money from Iraqi oil? We're not getting rich on this deal.

Who's getting the big money? Why, the people who bankrolled the Bush administrations election campaign. They are his investors.

What, did you thing the spoils would go to the US taxpayer? Ha!! The money is coming out of YOUR taxes and going into the coffers of the companies that paid for Bush's election campaign. Campaign contrabutions are legitimised bribery. Fact: Every US election for the past 30 years has been won by the side that spent the most money.

Besides, it's not all about profit. Access is a huge part of it, Saddam was sitting on the worlds second largest reserves, while the rest of the world is literally running out. War is, and always has been, about access to resources.

What we invest in infrastructure and rebuilding and securing that nation will *never* be repaid - under any circumstances.

You are kidding, right? Oil. Black gold. Texas tea? Second largest reserves in the world?

If that's not the case, could you explain to my soldier friends why they were guarding oil facilities instead of populated areas in the early days of the war?

You are right though, YOU will never get it back. It's in Harliburtons accounts now.

WRT "western media is barely touching on it" - It seems clear to me that the western media (in general) has no love for GW Bush. Don't you think that they would love to show the Iraq war as a disaster to get the scoop?

They aren't. There are daily attacks on troops and convoys, innocents dying every day. Bombs in cafes, schools, police stations. The media didn't even want to show the troops coffins coming home until they were forced into it via a blogger who got access to them via a FOI request. The war is an unmitigated disaster on just about every level. People don't want to see that; it's bad for ratings. And regardless of your politics, you cannot argue that the number one bottom line in media is readership/circulation/viewers and the reason for the existance of the media outlet; profit. I'm not saying there is some huge cover-up or conspircy, just that it's not in the medias interests to report this kind of stuff. Stay tuned for the next big story; We'll be back after these important messages. There is a really good book on the subject of how news media has changed called "How to watch TV News", very interesting reading.

Abortion? Roe v. Wade was a bad compromise. The concept of viability as a test was always a slippery slope.

I'm not touching that topic with a bargepole. You may have noticed that I haven't mentioned where I stand on that issue. It is not relevant to the fact that people who vote for Bush are going to burn in hell for their crimes against humanity. 2000 may have been a mistake, but a vote this time round is a black mark on your character. The war in Iraq was not neccessary or justified. The abortion debate will go on regardless.

agree that we need to think about the needs of other people, but how many of those people would have been killed by Saddam and his minions?

A couple hundred perhaps? He was under very close scrutiny from the west, and knew it. All he was capable of was small scale murder and torture. You know, the things we've been going to the prisoners as well. So, we replaced a man we created, supported, armed and financed, on the premise of stopping him doing things that we do anyway. Nice. WMD? Who do you think invented them? Ah, but we are the good guys right? So our leaders keep telling us, while they rape the world for their own interests. Can you think of a period in history where the dominant super-power believed that they weren't justified, if not required, to do whatever they are doing?

How many of the non-combatant deaths would have happened stateside?

None. Saddams regime has zero connections

Re:Body count

[anomaly]

You said that Saddam was no threat. I seem to remember that another Brit believed that before, made a deal, and proclaimed "peace for our time." this is a brave new world, and today's war is quite different from WWII. Someone needs to step in and protect the weak.

Non-combatant deaths *would* have happened in the states. Training accidents, traffic accidents, domestic violence, victims of violent crime, drunk driving and more would have claimed the lives of service men and women. It's not a zero-sum game. People die outside of combat at a statistically predictable rate. Those would have died anyway.

> second largest reserves in the world?
That may be, but the American taxpayers, and American Oil companies will not be taking those oil fields as the spoils of war, no matter what you think. If we wanted them, we would take them, and as the sole remaining superpower there's nothing that anyone could do about it. If we were really corrupt, capricious and power happy, we'd do what ever we wanted and nuke anyone who stood in our way. That's not the kind of thing that Americans do.

> explain...why they were guarding oil facilities
Well, let's see. In 1991, Sadddam adopted a scorched earth policy in which he destroyed the oil production gear in Kuwait and Iraq and he retreated.

The generals are always prepared for the last war, not the next one. Besides, if they had not been protected, and had been set ablaze again, you would have charged that it was obvious that Saddam would have done that, and we were fools not to protect them.

Also, the hope for a prosperous future for a free Iraq is based on their ability to generate revenue. It's for the good of the people that their ability to create wealth be protected.

GWB is a puppet? Please. That's ridiculous, and when you suggest that you lose substantial credibility with me. You probably think he's stupid, too, right? Did it ever occur to you that it's strategically valuable to have your opponents underestimate your capability? Many people use that as a life strategy. I believe that GWB lets people think he's less than brilliant.

> You really want to start WW3?
No, but all that is required for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

> burn in hell for crimes against humanity
Wow. That's pretty potent. On what basis do you make that assertion? Are you God?

> [Saddam may have killed] a couple hundred
I've read some reports that Saddam may have killed 300,000 or more people during his reign of terror. What about his crimes against humanity? When should the strong protect the weak?

> zero connections to terrorism
I think that the 9/11 commission report says that he was not linked to 9/11, but he has provided support to terrorists, even if he didn't help with that particular attack.

> things we do anyway
Right. Some people did those things, and they are being prosecuted. There's an investigation going on, and if it was a systemic problem, the leaders will be punished as well. You seem to make moral equivalence between Saddam and the Coalition. The difference is that the Coalition is accountable to the public, and Saddam was accountable to no one.

> All good people go to heaven, right?
I really don't think that is what he believes. If GWB is an evangelical Christian, and I think that he is, then he believes that:
1. God created all people
2. God loves all people
3. God is holy and perfect, and man is not
4. People naturally have no hope of relationship with a holy and perfect God, because of their imperfections
5. God loved people so much that He sent His Son to live the perfect life - free from sin - so that men could have the hope of relationship with God.
6. All people who honestly recognize their shortcomings before God, and place their trust in Christ and His perfect sacrifice to overcome their imperfections will be able to have relationship with God in this world and the next.

>

Re:Body count

[glesga_kiss]

You said that Saddam was no threat. I seem to remember that another Brit believed that before, made a deal, and proclaimed "peace for our time."

Not in any way relevant. Saddam was not a threat, case closed. Others are threats.

Non-combatant deaths *would* have happened in the states. Training accidents, traffic accidents, domestic violence, victims of violent crime

Your kidding, right? By your logic, Hitler was an alright guy, the Jewish people would have died anyway.

That may be, but the American taxpayers, and American Oil companies will not be taking those oil fields as the spoils of war, no matter what you think.

They just did!! The spoils of war were divied up before "major combat operations" were over. Contracts were assigned in secret without oversight. The profits are staggering. Just what the US needed to jump-start the economy. Just because it's not been on your news, doesn't mean that it didn't happen! Especially when your news is provided by the very same commercial entities that are profiting!!

we'd do what ever we wanted and nuke anyone who stood in our way. That's not the kind of thing that Americans do.

Not true. You are basing your view of America on your exposure to your education and Hollywood. Both were very much flag-waving and not connected to the truth. Fact is that the US has done more than it's fair share of dodgy things around the world. You created Al-Quada for pete sake! And there's the School of the Americas, responible for training the majority of South American terrorists and genocidal despots. Saddam was sold biological WMD by Rumsfeld. I could go on and on about things that prove that the US is not the "good guy"*.

*I could just as easily do the same for my own country. Historians always state that it is the victor that writes the history books. Who will ever write that they were the bad guys? Don't take it personally, but as I said, the US has had way more than it's fair share of dodgy dealings. And that's not even touching on the democratic governments brought down by the CIA to be replaced with dictators.

The US has the silly belief that they are in some way benefitial to the rest of the world. This is created by endless patriotism (some may say propaganda) on television. Every time you see a story about food aid, you see the US flag on sacks of wheat. Every time you hear of UN peacekeepers being deployed, you get US Marines. This has given the US population a very high opinion of itself, which is dangerous as that goes hand in hand with the belief that you can do no wrong. You said yourself: "That's not the kind of thing that Americans do.". Why do you believe that? Are you genetically different from everyone else on the planet, so much so that you are always doing the right thing? Tell that to the Saudi population who have been under the rule of a brutal dictatorship, which can only exist with US help. It is the support of this government that drove most of the 9-11 attackers (mostly Saudi's, remember?) to commit that attocity. Every time Bush says it is "because they hate freedom", he is lying to you in a way that will incite you, as freedom is central to the American Way. They don't hate freedom. They hate the things that your government has done, does and continues to do with zero awareness of this amoung the US population.*

* Many analysts believe that the war in Iraq has a lot to do with this. The US keeps a large battalian of troops in the Middle East, currently stationed in Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden's personal beef with the US is the removal of these. With Iraq under new leadership, these can be moved into Iraq, out of Saudi; which was exactly the aim of the 9-11 attacks!

America doesn't bring democracy. It brings stable trading partners. The politics is irrelevant if you are willing to do business. This is where the axim that the US has never gone to war with a country that has McDonalds resteraunts. Think about it. I've eaten a big mac in China, but not North Ko

chinese flying cross thread post I think

[zogger]

--this is one of the funnier slashdot cross posts I have seen. I am assuming this is from the satellite crashing thread.

Hmm, I didn't comment there on that, but did anyone notice how intact that satellite was? Kinda funny considering the level of damage the building apparently took.

As to oriental folks driving funny, well... hmm.. not many around here so I can't comment. In fact, I cannot honestly remember the last time I saw an oriental person. We have bubbas, bruthahs and beaners (there, all equally non politically correct), it seems more a function of budweiser and crank than anything else with peoples driving abilities...

I am a medicore road driver and a pretty good rough off road driver. Cars I have never gotten good at but work equipment and machinery I can get very good at once I have the controls sorted out and get a little practice-they are all different. Why that is I am not sure, but it's always been that way. Probably a function of speed. As long as I can go slower I have exquisite fine tuning control, at faster speeds I tend to get sloppy and lose my smoothness. I can put a 10 ton piece of equipment between two trees with 1/4 inch on both sides and not scrape a piece of anything, and do it in reverse on an odd slope over rocks or whatnot, but at highway speeds on a perfectly sound well maintained flat road in a car I get road wander and drift inside the lane. go figger. Hence, never sped much.

My ideal fun race (if there was a sponsor handling the tab) would be to pilot some humongous tricked luxury RV with 10 foot high wheels in the Baja 500,and do it with a full crew on board and a few stewardesses....with olden days stewardess outfits.... yesssssssssssssss

Hmm, what other odd crap can I stick in this that no one will probably read....??hmmm

We got a new calf last week, tiny, caramel brown, Daddy is a Charloais and momma is an Angus/Hereford cross. Really cute, haven't been able to get close enough yet to see if it's a bull or a cow yet though.

Fired up the woodstove for the first time the other night, dropped to the low 40's. Gotta love the fact the "energy company" is out back at the end of the tractor and chainsaw.

Cabbages looking good, all the other green leafy action salad stuff crops coming on strong, and still getting a lot of peppers, tomatoes aand green beans. The cold weather will bork the materz though, need to cover them with the hoop houses soon.

--anyway, thus concludes zogger's miniblogger for this date!