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Halo 2 Retail Date Broken in Midwest
Thanks to c0nrad, who alerted us to a Gamespot article stating that Halo 2's launch date has been broken by a Midwestern store. From the article: "Several reports on the Gaming Age forums--which included photos of the limited edition of the game--said that several individual Meijer stores, a self-described grocery and general merchandise retailer that operates in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Kentucky, were selling the game early. However, calls made by GameSpot to several Meijer outlets made it sound like the franchise was sticking to the deadline." The reader continues: "Despite that, Ebay auctions have already gone up, with one having already reached $265!"
Why would anyone pay $265 for Halo 2? 1. It's on the Internet if you want it now. 2. If you're that much of a Halo fanatic, you've got Halo 2 preordered. Which means you're garunteed a copy in 4 days at 1/5th of that price. Is there something I'm missing here?
That one is gone, but there are still plenty left...
most these ebay "sales" wont ever pay up. They bid on several of the games and then will pay for the lowest one they won, if at all. A lot of the people bidding are deliberatly waisting the sellers time "to make it fair" so no one gets the game early. Yes I know it's a jackass thing to do but thats what at least one guy said he was doing.
The game has already gone gold. MS and Bungie will still get money from the sales. Some rubes on eBay will be out some more $$$ just for bragging rights. All that will happen is that some PR prick will feel as though their spectacular launch day has been violated.
But tomorrow, the sun will still rise and Halo 2 will remain just a game.
The bees, on the other hand... the bees will soon control the world.
-EvilMagnus
I am guessing that Meijer stores will no longer be selling x-box related materials.
/me creating a new auction for Halo ][ on eBay.
(please note that the auction ends on November 10)
--
Repeat after me. "It's just a game".
Sheesh
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
wow, some people really can't wait. 260 bucks for a couple days early release? Probably not when you factor in shipping time/auction closure/ et all.
Sig goes here.
view them while they're valid
At the EBgames I work at we have around 10 or so big boxes with Halo 2 and the strategy guides.....so it's no surprise people are selling it early. It's tempting as hell to take one home.
Each of the shrink-wrapped game cases has a sticker....under the shrink-wrap, that says "DO NOT SELL UNTIL 11/9/04." I've never seen a game this hyped or this heavily protected. Hope you all pre-ordered.
http://www.commaecho.com
Halo 2 has been spotted! I'm peeing my panties! This is almost as good as the Cabbage Patch kids hype.
Why not let stores sell it when they have it? It kind of makes software industry whines about piracy losses ring hollow when the product is sitting there in the stores and the software company is prohibiting stores from selling it. There is also the message of "want to buy it? Forget about it: we're sitting on the boxes for now. You'll have to scan Kazaa for a cracked copy."
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Meijer, for those who don't know (and since they're a regional store, I suppose there would be many that don't), is the name of a chain of stores that are individually frickin' huge. They're compete directly with Wal-Mart and Target. So if Microsoft/Bungie decides to stop giving Meijer their software/hardware to sell, I think Meijer would just say 'boo-hoo'... they've still got hundreds of aisles of clothing, food, other companies' software, and housewares to make a profit from.
Will it come to a lawsuit? Maybe. Would it be worth Microsoft's time? Probably not, but that is a question left up for debate.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
Yeah, there is something you're missing: the fact that most people are idiots. Remember when the PS2 came out, and was sold out everywhere? And it was selling for triple or quadruple what it was worth on eBay? And this was despite the fact that the PS2 didn't have a single decent launch game. Some people just have to have the latest thing now now NOW, even when it flies in the face of logic.
So yeah, I'm not surprised that people are paying ridiculous amounts just to have it a few days early. People can be really stupid sometimes.
--
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
$265 to play a video game a few days early.
Surely an undersexed geek can think of a better way to blow $265????
Wouldn't this be a violation of the terms?
Maybe so, but it shouldn't be.
A covenant without a sword is but words among men. The problem with retail dates in the video game industry is that of enforcement. Sure the publishers, distrobution companies could sue the retail stores, but that would result in a bitter fight, and a lot of animosity. Stores compete with eachother locally to strenghthen their customer base, and one way that keeps coming up is this breaking of release dates as a method of getting customers to flock to a store in order to buy a copy of the latest game early.
Policy should be to just put the games on the shelf when they arrive in the stores, because timed releases are just foolish on a number of levels. If copies are just collecting dust waiting for a retail date, the store is losing money and the customers are losing patience. Some stores will follow retail dates and others will ignore them, at whatever the cost may be.
If video game companies just don't apply retail dates, stores can bid with the games companies to get early shipments at a slightly higher price, and the customer wins in the end because they can buy a copy earlier for a little more money. If they hold off and wait, they should get a discount on the games in proportion to the delay. Yes, there is an opportunity for some capitolist exploits if retail dates are a thing of the past, but supply and demand should not be controlled by anyone, IMHO, and supply and demand will still apply to a release model that does not support retail dates or try to enforce them.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Most likely, and probably there will be consequences for the store. What scores me though, is that if sufficient hype is generated and/or enough keeners actually bought the early release for such heavily inflated prices, we might start seeing a trend. If game manufacturers or stores get the idea that they can sell pre-releases at 3x-4x the street value, we'll probably see them trying this as part of business in the future.
HL2 is great and all, but don't feed the sharks guys!
Yeah, it would be great to see someone sued for selling a legal properly-licensed product.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I wonder if Microsoft has the XBox Live servers for Halo2 up and running yet? If not, its hardly worth the hassle of searching for an early copy.
Meijer's should have known better. They'll pay big for this. That will teach them. Next time, they'll give away free cracked copies of "Halo 3" or whatever. Anything is better than actually selling properly-licensed packaged software to customers for the proper price.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
When I use to work for a retailer.. if a major release was sold before the date we could be fined as much as $10,000 per copy that was sold. If Halo 2 is that drastic Meijer would be looking at a fairly hefty penalty.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstein
This happens all the time. I myself got the Tron Collector's DVD at Walmart 2 days before (wasn't realy looking for it, but I saw it and realized it was early and picked it up anyway...). Usually the way it goes is EBGames, or Meijer or some other retailer will have some low wage guy accidently pop it in the case and start selling it. It wasn't his fault. Then people will see it, think it's out, and go to thier favorite store and ask them about it. Most managers of these stores figures well if one store is selling it, then I sure as hell am going to make a sale as well. Then it just goes by local gamer grapevine and the day before the release date, everyone has it out for sale. I honestly don't understand why they do things like this. If it's not supposed to come out til X date, why ship it so it's sitting in the store room for 3 days? I doubt Meijer will have anything happen to them. They sell too many Xboxes and game for Microsoft for Microsoft to even care. For all we know, it may be a stunt being pulled by Microsoft....i mean the game was advertised by ilovebees.
Gorkman
J'avais joué le Halo 2 pendant deux semaines, et appris à parler français, aussi!
Reminds me of how I got my Playstation 2. This happened about three days before they were officially released.
A friend of mine is general manager of an unnamed software retail store, and he owed me for money I loaned him to get his car fixed. He called and told me to come by the store. He handed me a PS2, the most recent version of Madden, a hockey game and a couple of others. It sucked because you could not buy the extra dual shock controller yet, so he popped open another box and gave me the one from there.
Just because a store has a release date in mind, does not mean people's agendas change.
M
I remember the $150 version of the Matrix DVD being sold at Amazon a couple of months before the "normal priced" edition, and people spending that much just to have the movie early. Marketing at its best.
We've already had the bees, this is simply another way to make buzz, "heat in the channel". Thank you /. for giving them free advertising.
Worse still, Microsoft might assume $265 or whatever is bid, is the actual value of the game, although it only reflects the valuations of a few desperate nerds.
Even though the obtaining-of-software-before-the-release-date goes against the principles of intellectual property that M$ hold so dear, we all know how they make exceptions for themselves, being so big and all.
MMMM Precious Gummy. Bring Meijer to Maryland.
The comment has already been made. Let's move it along people. Nothing to see here.
to chip the xbox, download the game.. and then get your pre-ordered copy when its 'offically' released. total cost for the desperados $25
Meijer, for those unfamiliar is a BIG BOX store chain which probably moves a significant portion of video games.
The chain started, ages ago in the Holland/Grand Rapids area as Meijer Thrifty Acres, with a dutchboy in wooden shoes and pageboy haircut nicknamed Thrifty, as the mascot. It's like pairing Safeway and Target stores, food and general merchandise.
When they built one of these in my former home town of Midland, MI, it nearly killed all the other grocery stores in the city.
Don't kid yourself that Meijer would suffer some injuction. They're simply so big the left hand and right hand don't quite reach each other.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
To prevent 'word of mouth' from killing bad products 'day 1' sales. If 'opinion leader' players decide it sucks by playing limitted quantity 'pre-release' copies and tell all their friends, it will decimate 'day 1' sales that could normally be guaranteed by a marketing blitz even for the lousiest game.
How do you think Microsoft is gonna respond? With a court case of course.
Actually, back in the day I worked at blockbuster video and we were bound to release dates too. One day a couple movies were put on the shelves like 2 days early and corporate freaked. Turns out what the movie industry does (or did) was, IMO, far more sinister than a lawsuit. If the studios found that we put out one of their movies early they postponed their shipments by 90 days for a period of time (the period, i forget) but can you imagine a store (or franchise) being denied shipments of games for 90 days? Gives everyone else a bit of a competitive edge and completely screws the people who screwed up.. I think this is far more effective, and a better deturant than a lawsuit.
Personally my favorite part is -- That shows that not everybody solves everything in a court, and I love it.
-matt
I used to live in Michigan and did a lot of shopping at Meijer's. I still remember my mom buying me some Mexican Jumping Beans at Meijer's when I was still in early elementary school. Meijer's carries damn near everything - groceries, clothing, appliances, etc. - and most stores are open 24 hours (IIRC). I doubt video games are a large percentage of their sales, so I doubt a reprimand from Bungie will do them any serious damage (though it'll still sting).
-Rich
For those who have never had the pleasure to go to a Meijer, it's like a large, clean Wal-Mart Supercenter. The smallest Meijer store that I've been in is still larger than my hometown. I believe that Wal-Mart's supercenters are possibly patterned after the large Meijer stores.
Check out their web site.
Do you have ESP?
All this crappy hype for Halo 2 yet it's already been leaked in French (Still playable) and has been for a good few weeks now.
Maybe we should start on HL2 and pimp it on slashdot (See : Doom 3), for a couple of weeks yea?
Slashdot games : Never looked at yet always trying to sell us the latest FPS game
I like muppets.
I've lived in Michigan all my life, not far from Greenville where the first Meijer store was founded. I have to say, Meijer rocks. They do so much for the community.
One thing I just think is awesome, is that the Meijer family paid for the casting of a Leonardo da Vinci sculpture. The sculpture was to be a 22 foot tall bronze horse for the Duke of Milan. However, before Da Vinci could finish, the French invaded and used the horse as target practics. The Meijer family had two cast, one is now in Milan, the other sits in Fredrick Meijer Gardens in Grand Rapids.
Bugs are just features that have been fixed.
A million reasons, a single store
Um...I don't see any copies of Halo 2 on ebay going for $265. I see copies of Halo 2 bundled with special edition xboxes going for that, and ridiculous "buy it now" prices of $150, but no $265 prices for just the game.
who honor the release date so they can all start selling the product on the same day and have a fair marketplace to compete in.
Neither, however, treats employees as chattel. There is nothing like slavery in such employment as long as the employees can walk out and tell the boss to take this job and shove it.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Not only that.... After seeing "The Two Towers", I'll never go in the woods again. At least not without gasoline, matches, and a chainsaw. And, after seeing John Kerry's face for all these months, I'm reliving childhood nightmares of those mean trees in the "Wizard of Oz" movie.
By the way, crawling chaos, you are missing an R in your name. Was "nyarlathotep" taken?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Halo ][
Since when does Apple make Halo?
The coolest voice ever.
By treating their game like a movie, with all the attendant buzz about weekend sales and sales rankings, it is the distributors of the product that are to blame.
Are there 'release dates' for white goods? No. The producer places the product in the channel, and distributors and retailers get it when they get it, without restriction on when they can start *selling* the product.
By trying to artificially control demand through massive 'first day sales', it is the publisher who is to blame, not the stores who sell the product early.
-EvilMagnus
I've never seen a game this hyped
You don't remember Last Week?
I almost wish I was still in OH so I could get a copy.
Sadly, something tells me the two hours this youth spent in line to vote is about the same thing he's going to encounter Monday night.
For those of you wondering what Meijer is it is basically a Midwest Walmart. It has everything that Walmart has and most major cities have at least one Meijer and one Walmart that are in direct competiton with one another. I haven't been to the South lately but it seems kind of like Publix.
Best Buy was selling copies of StarWars: Battlefront almost a week early. I purchase mine on Saturday when the game wasn't due to be released until the following Tuesday. I went straight home and started playing Live. They had some MAJOR network performance issues but I was expecting that. Why would Micrsoft punish the user when it is obiously the retailers fault for releasing the game early (a little short-sighted on your part)
I went to a Meijer in Lexington, KY on my lunch break to check it out. No Dice. Either they have already wised up, or it was just a mistake made by a few Meijer stores that got blown way out of proportion.
What witty sig? I can't be witty, I'm a Methodist.
Ok, right now I am imagining people from as far away as Indiana hopping in their cars right now for a road trip.
You're not missing much anymore. The ones in Saginaw, Midland, and Flint have gone to hell the last couple years. The Saginaw Tittabawassee location started some renovations a few years ago, and half the store's been lit with utility lights ever since. The same one was losing lots of money because people were stealing flowers from the garden department (which is set up so you can go outside from it without passing the checkout lanes). So they moved it to the back of the store, and put the drug isle in its place. Guess how much they're losing now when you can walk from isle with some of the most expensive and often stolen items in the store outside without passing the checkout lanes?
Are there 'release dates' for white goods?
Of course not, they are practically commodities. People only shop for them when they move into a house or the old one dies, and no-one cares about being the first to get the latest kenmore.
But video game and movie consumers really do want to get the game/movie as soon as they can. The producers encourage this, but the demand would exist even without their encouragement. They are not controlling demand by having a first day of sale - it is logically impossible not to have a first day that a product is available.
If they did do what you said and allowed stores to sell as soon as they got it, that would artificially limit supply on the first days, allowing lucky retailers to gouge people that were willing to buy it, and hurting the sales of unlucky stores whose shipment arrived a day latter.
Given there is demand for a popular game, and that there has to be a first time that it is available, the most fair thing to do - for the retailers and the customers - is to make it available for all the retailers to sell on the same day.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate gory=62053&item=8143942614&rd=1
And "Halo 2: Limited Collector's Edition Xbox" doesn't mean it comes with an xbox, the game itself is the limited collector's edition.
but as an investment you could move, it does not make sense.
Darn right it doesn't. Given that the PS2 wears out most easily of all the current consoles, who would consider it an investment? But then buying a gallon of milk at retail isn't an "investment" either; it's typically purchased for its use value rather than for its resale value.
Ah ha...right you are sir. Didn't see that one in completed auctions.
HL2 is great and all, but don't feed the sharks guys!
How do you know HL2 is great?
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
And worse yet, retailers that Microsoft offends may retaliate by selling Linspire PCs near the front of the store. Can you imagine how this would hurt Microsoft?
I considered it, because I need to upgrade my card anyway. But I thought about it, and decided that I wasn't willing to shell out that kind of money for a video card, just to play a new game. The game will still be out a year after its release, it will be cheaper, and the cards needed to play it will be much cheaper. Boy, was I right. It is now a YEAR later, the game isn't even out, and those same cards are about 1/2 price of what they were a year ago. By the time I get a copy of HL2, the cards needed to play it will be around the $100 mark. And those hardcore gamers will have upgraded their cards at least one more time.
Early adopters are suckers in my mind, the costs are large, and I don't see any percievable benefit. Same goes for standing in line for hours to see a movie on opening weekend.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
...so excited over a Microsoft software release.
DO NOT SELL UNTIL 11/9/04
Which the immigrant working at the checkout counter will think is almost two months ago.
>>Despite that, Ebay auctions have already gone up, with one having already reached $265!" there's a sucker born every minute.
When I went into work (Meijer) the other day we got a call about 6 am telling us that we had sold a copy of Halo 2. Since I sometimes work in the Electronics section, we quickly checked the tightly held stock. Nothing was sold. I'm sure Microsoft will try to slap us with a $10,000 fine; but the faulty network the stores run on is possibly to blame. I mean hell, I held the Star Wars DVD set 2 weeks before it was sold, and not a single one was leaked.
Yeah but I really hate those Covenant guys with the swords, especially the invisible ones.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Those of us who have used "Windows ME" asked that many times.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
You think retailers would actually prefer that system?? Bidding for early shipment? That's crazy; that would just drive the price up and everything would be chaotic.
If I were a retailer, I would much rather prefer to know for a fact that my competition isn't going to be allowed to sell a game until a specific date. And I would know for sure that on that date I will have just as many copies on my shelf as he does. Then the real compeition is in selling pre-orders. Pre-orders are much easier to sell because they're cheap and I can't run out (usually). Customers know weeks or months in advance when the game is comming out and everyone is happy.
Aw crap, ninjas!
The concept involved is fair-trade, the idea is if all of the retail outlets begin sales at the same date, then they all have a fair shot at the market. By agreeing to the "street date" then the stores will get their shipments in time for the street-date without worrying about shipments delayed by third-party shippers. Outlets that violate the street-dates have to worry about their early shippment agreement getting voided, and the their shippments will be timed to arrive just-in-time rather than in-plenty-of-time. Now I doubt that they will do this with Meijers because they are a huge outlet, in their market area, Walmart competes with Meijers, not the other way arround. Most likely what happened is some minimum-wage sales clerk either put them out to soon cluelessly, or thought it was a good idea to jump the street-date.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
The opposite is true. Unions can get you fired just because you refuse to give money to political campaigns. And yes, Meijer forces you to join. This should be a choice left to workers.
"if you work at walmart you can be fired for no reason at all"
However, this is very very rare. It is in Wal-Mart's interest to retain good employees, and fire only the bad ones. Wal-Mart is rather cut-throat when it comes to efficiency. Firing people without reason is rather sloppy.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I want to know if it does the Star Wars battlefront dashboard upgrade. If your Xbox is soft modded will it reset the HD partition and reload the dashboard.
What a Meijer mistake
That is the problem. Meijer workers are forced to join unions, which really are nothing more than political organizations. They force members to contribute money to political causes that go against their interests, and really have nothing to do with whether or not you can do the job or how well you can do it. Like such an organization? Fine, your choice. But Meijer employees have no choice in membership. Wal-Mart employees, in contrast, are not forced to belong or give $$$$ to such organizations.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
If the game publishers can enforce the street date, stopping them from selling the game prior to the "release day", then why can't they just let them sell the game whenever they get it, and instead, enforce a MSRP price, so no gouging occurs?
I agree with the grandparent post. It seems assinine that they are bitching about early pirate releases, but then refuse to sell the game until some PR date.
He was talking about a candy bar named "Halo". He didn't think you needed a computer thingy to use it!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Meijer has a reputation for selling things inadvertently before the "drop" date. I've bought a few CDs there as much as two weeks before they were supposed to go on sale. I have a friend that works at one and I worked at one for a while. I got Madden 2k5 for the PS2 this way, also. I've heard that many stores' cash registers won't allow products to be scanned until the date.
"Killed" them by serving the customers better. How evil!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Anyone stopped to think that maybe the cronies at m$ might be watching those eBay auctions and purposely inflating the price to astronimical levels for 2 reasons:
1. Hey it gets a front page on Slashdot, therefore, this game ROCKS!
2. The buyer most likely won't pay up and its just wasted time, because by the time the auction ends, the games going to be out there in full force anyways...
They AFL-CIO which actually stole tens of millions of dollars during the last two presidential elections to give to campaigns? The AFL-CIO which steals money from workers and then uses the money to lobby Congress specifically to prevent workers from being protected from such miss-use of dues?
Either way, no-one should be forced to join any union (Meijer or AFL-CIO). It is a matter of basic union rights.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Let's not get too carried away with the WalMart comparisons. Meijer is family-controlled. The retail staff is unionized; full-time preferred. The health benefits are great (f'r'instance, a friend of mine got hyperthermic blood work in Germany for his cancer), for part- and full-time. Meijer tends to advance from the ranks. Here in Meijer home office-land, there is rarely an aftertaste of "payoff" when the patriarch, Fred, donates money to the community (unlike with some of the other billionaires in the area, or with WalMart).
In Gnu-terms, Meijer's Not WalMart
education is no substitute for intelligence
The reason BlockBuster pays more for the DVDs is to because they rent them out. A copy of a DVD you buy at $20 isn't a rental copy, and its prohibited for you to rent that out (I'm not sure what the consequences would be if you did, but anyway). Blockbuster pays something along the lines of $100+ per copy of the DVD, but they get the additional benefit of that being a license, so they can get extra copies of the actual movie in case the old one is scratched without having to pay the $100. They are allowed to sell their rental copies, but they sell it without the rental license, and at therefore at a regular price.
I'm getting the "Available on eBay. Bid now!" ad right below the article.
A covenant without a sword is but words among men.
A Covenant without a Sword is a lot easier to kill.
"To get the game on the same day they could walk down the street and buy it for $50."
I think there's another angle. The Hype Machine wants you to believe that the stores will sell out of the product within a matter of minutes or hours. That you will NOT be able to walk down the street and buy it for $50, because the store will have sold out (due to all the people who camped out and waited). So then the price on ebay goes up so high that the $300 ebay price starts looking good.
Meanwhile I continue to play nethack and wonder what you people see in these undergamed things.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I tend to agree with you. If you play it more though you will get to play as the covanent, and eventually fight on the same side as the humans as the covanent. But its true that the gameplay hasn't changed all that much.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
Next thing you know, CPU and video card manufacturers will start introducing new products at jacked-up prices and then tapering them down as they run out of deep-pockets customers.
rj
"Why would Micrsoft punish the user when it is obiously the retailers fault for releasing the game early"
.
For the same reason they're making you pay for online gaming when there is absolutely no reason you should be paying for it to begin with? Live is nothing more than a toll booth on the internet gaming highway that Xbox owners have to pass through for something that is free most everywhere else
If that's not punishing the consumer, bend over and hand me the KY.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Reading further I see that it's already been leaked online, so there'd be not much point.
If one studio does it when you release their movies early, that I can understand... if they all do it when you release one studio's movie early, I'd be running to the government screaming words like "illegal cartel" and "antitrust" and "restraint of trade".
deus does not exist but if he does
You know, the game will be out _really_ soon. All any self respecting Ebay scammer has to do is set up and auction, close said auction, then wait for the game to ship and tell the buyer, "Oh, I'm sorry it took so long, it's the shipper's fault". I've read reports of it being done with laptops. It takes a little more care and elaboration to not get caught, but if you're careful you can get away with it...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
of course you beat the French edition, they just rolled over and surrendered.
Wait til the old guy dies, like Sam Walton did, and then boom. Union will be gone. And the crap will start.
No one is "forced" to join a Union. What you may be referring to (though I doubt it) is "Fair Share". Fair Share is a due that you pay, even if you do not belong to the Union, to work in a Union shop. What it basically is about is that if the Union members go to all the trouble to organize, and bargain as a group - so that they can limit the abuse to workers and gain higher wages - that you as a worker in that shop should help out in the expense. You are literally paying Fair Share so that you can get higher wages. The Union protects you in many other ways (Dismiss w/o cause etc. ) that you also pay for without realizing it.
Walmart as an employer blows major chow, even with the Union representation in the few stores that have managed to get it in.
As far as politics go the Dems are much more Labor (and by that I mean anyone who punches a clock) friendly then the Repubs. That is the traditional Dem base in part - their was a day when union busting would get you killed. Now-a-days it is business as usual.
I guess my thought on this is that though you may be a fantastic (fill in the blank here) there comes a day when you can still do your job, but are no longer the 'Flavor-of-the-Month'. Then what do you do? Truth be told I can always find 2 people younger than you willing to work at .25 of your wage that can do the same job. Always. But ther is the rub...they *cant* do the same job, but for half your price - I can try,and will do so, despite that in the long run it will cost me money. And I as a corperation will live with results..because corp profit is what matters...not substance, and (surprise) it is the young guys running it that run the stats about how much much money dumping those 'Dinosaurs' is saving them.
And that *IS* WalMart ..all profit - - as long as the US consumer can buy tongs for $0.34 per. If you want to get into the cheaper, faster, better race, jump on in, and when in 10 years you start to drown, holler out, I will be waiting on the shore with an anvil slightly lighter than your Corperate Masters.
Sera
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
A Covenant without a Sword is a lot easier to kill.
Unless it's invisible.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
If it is a computerized 'chain store', simply do not put sales information for these 'pre-release' goods into the system until the day of release -- '12:01AM' style if need be.
There are two known drawbacks to this approach.
1) Non-computerized store chains and single store 'Mom-n-Pop' outlets.
2) Time zone issues and a single distribution point of computerized sales information.
I heard Meijer already shedded a fair number of management positions some time ago in order to 'remain competitive' with Wal-Mart.
How can any store chain compete with the nvt-squeezing, penny-pinching tactics employed by Wal-Mart?
Entirely incorrect. Most union members are forced to join, due to closed shop. The "Fair Share" situation you mention is where workers are forced to pay union dues, which the union then uses for anything, including political campaigns. Sorry, it is a pretty weak argument to say that they are forced to pay dues but they are not members.
"bargain as a group - so that they can limit the abuse to workers and gain higher wages"
That is great union-thug spin, as union abuse of workers is quite common (look at the assaults strikers commit against working people who cross picket lines), and the wage certainly isn't higher anymore when the union forces the company to move the factory to Mexico.
"The Union protects you in many other ways (Dismiss w/o cause etc. ) that you also pay for without realizing it."
If this were true, the unions would have no problem getting people to pay. Instead, they have to force people.
"Walmart as an employer blows major chow"
Walmart employees tend to disagree. I take their word on it more than yours.
As far as politics go the Dems are much more Labor (and by that I mean anyone who punches a clock) friendly then the Repubs
The facts do not bear you out on this one. During the past two elections, more working people voted for Bush than for the Dem candidate.
"That is the traditional Dem base in part - their was a day when union busting would get you killed. Now-a-days it is business as usual. "
Are you using "union busting" to mean insisting on the right of workers to join or NOT to join? Used to that "union busting" meant Pinkerton thugs busting skulls of organizing. Now there are extreme spinners (well paid with stolen money) in the AFL-CIO that call any effort to protect worker rights, such as paycheck protection "union busting". It is no wonder the unions represent the interests of a record low of about 8% of workers.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Slash prices. Get rid of teh union. Slash benefits.
If you pay dues, you have been forced to join. You are using weasel words. It is like saying "I am not a member of the NRA, but I pay dues to it". As for "helping the worker", that is very much in dispute, and it is union-thug spin. It helps some workers, not others. The workers disagree with you.
"Actually, I would say that employees in both stores have the choice in most states."
"But you can get a refund of the percentage of contributions that went for political activity."
We know this does not happen. It is all a slush fund, an workers are threatened if they try to get their money back. There is also a problem with taking the political money in the first place. Why not have paycheck protection so the contributions are entirely voluntary? The unions always put roadblocks in the way to make it hard for people to get their refunds. There would be no problem if membership was voluntary. Then the union could do whatever it wanted to with the money.
Meijer employees in Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do NOT have this choice. They are forced. I think this covers the vast majority of Meijer stores.
"In my opinion, though, the chance of you being able to unionize at Wal-Mart (and stay employed) is slim"
Nothing stops you from giving money to the union. There is much more choice there.
"Next time, please research a little before spouting off..."
"Perhaps you have never heard of the terms "closed" and "open" shop, and "right-to-work laws? 22 states have right to work laws in which you do not have to join a union OR pay dues to be employed"
But you did not look into which states actually had such protections for workers, did you?
Too bad, this time, you did not practice that.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.