Arthur C. Clarke Reports From Sri Lanka

Jeff Patterson writes "Sir Arthur C. Clarke has filed a damage report from his home in Sri Lanka on the Clarke Foundation page. He is fine, however 'among those affected are my staff based at our diving station in Hikkaduwa and holiday bungalow in Kahawa -- both beachfront properties located in areas worst hit. We still don't know the full extent of damage as both roads and phones have been damaged. Early reports indicate that we have lost most of our diving equipment and boats. Not all our staff members are accounted for -- yet.'"

Comments

Bah

[delus10n0]

Oh gee, well I'm so sorry your boat stuff is messed up!

Seeing as probably 50,000+ people are dead, that makes me feel even worse!

Re:Bah

[Ghostgate]

I think you missed the part where he said not all of his staff is accounted for. Or the part where he said he is contributing to the relief efforts. Instead, you picked out the most irrelevant part of what was said, and went with that. Good work.

Re:Bah

[Anonymous Coward]

Half the Slashdot blurb is about damage to the belongings of a rich foreigner. The rest of the article from which the submitter took the excerpt is a little more tactful, as it puts the impact on the lives of people first and emphasizes it more.

Re:Bah

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever modded this down should really consider this: what the news tell us is stuff like "oh noh, a couple of rich western tourists have died" and give no attention to the fact that thousands and thousands of poor Indonesians have died and the whole Indonesian society will be in a horrible crisis for years. Luckily the UN and other organizations aren't that ignorant and are preparing massive aid programmes.

Re:Bah

[secretsquirel]

When I heard about the tsunami one of the the first things I thought about was if he was alright, and I'm glad to know he's fine. Ya I know thousands of other people died and that sucks but none of them are my favourite author.

Re:Bah

[Anonymous Coward]

Of COURSE Mr. Clarke would report on the condition of his boat stuff.

Wouldn't you EXPECT him to be concerned about where the buoys are?

Re:Bah

[generic-man]

That's funny. The news tells me that 44,000 people have died so far as a top story.

Because it's a U.S.-based news site, I find as a subheadline that a few Americans are among the dead. However, the vast majority of the coverage is international in nature.

If you wish to reply, please note at least one incident of conservative bias in the second link I posted. Replies lacking this information will be considered "double-opt-in replies to be added to my value-added email list."

Re:Bah

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Funny

LOL.

Re:Bah

[badmammajamma]

Actually, CNN has been headlining this the last couple of days and the focus hasn't been on the few Americans that died. And guess what, it's the top news item today http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/asia.q uake/index.html

Here's your foreign 9/11

[glassjaw rocks]

Terrible news. This really dwarfs 9/11, very sad indeed. The death count is what, in the tens of thousands? This is a very sad event for the whole world.

This is not intended to be flamebait.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Drantin]

Regardless of whether the deaths dwarf 9/11 (they do) unless you have proof this tsunami and earthquake were directly caused by humans, it's not exactly a "foreign 9/11" ...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

No, it's not a foreign 9/11, it's WORSE. This tragedy, which cost thousands upon thousands more lives than 9/11, was not preventable.

Sure if warning systems were in placed it could have helped lower the death toll, but there is no way to prevent deaths altogether in this situation. At least 9/11 could have been prevented, but right now we have no way to stop earthquakes/tsunamis from happening.

But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead.

Why isn't primetime TV pre-empted for round the clock coverage of this? 8 Americans dead isn't enough to pre-empt programming.

It's events like this that can get one easily pissed off (yet again) over the bias in the American Media.

What's really sad is that the bias reflects most Americans: They don't care about it, since Americans weren't affected that much (except the 8 that died). Typical Americans, at most, only care enough to ask "Could this happen to us in America?"

Everytime I see FOX NEWS show little coverage of this trajedy and move on to the War in Iraq, I am reminded of the hilarious satire song from Team America: World Police:

"America...f*ck yeah!"

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[centipetalforce]

You are failing to take in account the +100k Iraqis dead as an indirect result of what happened years ago. And by the way, don't compare water with jet fuel, it makes no sense to.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Scarblac]

It's events like this that can get one easily pissed off (yet again) over the bias in the American Media.

This isn't bias in American Media, this is bias in human brains. The further away something is from us personally, the less we care. It's not at all unique to the US.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Flaming Foobar]

But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead.

In fact, many many more people have been killed in bombings in Iraq, so I guess they should at least get equal attention.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Dhalka226]

Why isn't primetime TV pre-empted for round the clock coverage of this? 8 Americans dead isn't enough to pre-empt programming.

Because by and large:

1. It does not affect most Americans. That is not to say people do not care or are not interested; I have not yet found a person I've mentioned this to who hasn't already told me that they know about it. But the reality is, the number of Americans touched directly isn't high. This isn't media bias, it's audience. Saying the media is biased against this is like saying networks should pre-empt programming to talk about elections in other nations. In many ways that would even be MORE important to us locally than a tsunami that, while terrible, is done with. And that said,

2. It is pretty much done with. Yes, there is a TON of cleanup and humanitarian things going on, but how much is there to say about it? "The UN is helping." Okay, great. Do we need to break into programming or dedicate 24/7 coverage on CNN to say that? Do we need experts brought in to talk about what food is or something? Be reasonable. Things like 9/11 are covered in depth not only because of how directly and vastly it affects the average American, but because of how many questions remain unanswered. This was an earthquake, and a tsunami caused by it. It doesn't NEED vast coverage.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Ukonu]

Interesting argument. But I just want to point out that I doubt England, Iraq, or Brazil are pre-empting their programing either. So instead of just ranting about how Americans are this-and-that-and-satan's-spawn maybe we should consider that indifference isn't only an American trait. I will agree with you that the whole media coverage situation is unfortunate however. And, perhaps, every other nation except America has intense media coverage of the situation. I just doubt it.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please. 9/11 was worse because it was preventable. Or maybe it wasn't. Depends on your point of view, like, how are you affected by either event. Should Americans be interested (beyond taking note of it) in a catastrophe that happens on the other side of the world? The UN is helping, American seismologists tried to warn Asian authorities and I'm sure there will be initiatives by individuals. The world can't come to a halt everytime something bad happens somewhere in the world. There are worse problems which we don't even notice anymore: More than 20000 people die of hunger EVERY DAY. Don't blame people for being interested first in what affects them directly. It's only human.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Morlark]

It's not at all unique to the US.

I disagree. Here in the UK there has been rather a lot of coverage. Most of the newspapers here have several pages worth of articles covering how bad things are, and how the humanitarian efforts are proceeding in the various affected countries. I'm not sure how many British people died in this tragedy, but I think it's got to be a dozen at most. So this tragedy is no 'closer' to us personally in the UK than it is in the US, but if the media coverage really is as bad in the US as grandparent poster seems to imply, then I think that really is a clear indication of the different attitudes taken by the media in our two countries.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of whether the deaths dwarf 9/11 (they do)

So do the civilian deaths in Iraq due to US activities. Your point?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[PerlDudeXL]

I remember that someone explained the famous english black humour like this to me:

headline: Major disaster, no british victims

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[LMariachi]

This tragedy, which cost thousands upon thousands more lives than 9/11, was not preventable.

Unpreventable tragedies: File under "Shit Happens." It's not that we don't care, it's that there's nothing to be done about it that's not already being done. There's no perpetrator with demands to answer. Maybe it's because I don't watch Fox News, but I've seen plenty of news items on continuing relief efforts and speculation on how to minimize the damage of future tsunamis; what angle would you suggest ongoing coverage take? "Thousands Remain Dead"? "Orphans Are Sad"? That's not news.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[el-spectre]

I haven't seen anything else on CNN in 2 days...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Calydor]

That's bullshit.

I'm in Denmark, we have 3 dead and about 200 missing, with the latter number quickly falling as people get to phones. The news here has extra airings, at least half the time of the normal airings are about this disaster, and the national newspapers have a 16-page special on it.

We care.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[D H NG]

A lot of the countries affected are Commonwealth nations. In addition, about 10,000 British tourists were estimated to be in the area.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[-noefordeg-]

It's not a question of how many people died. It's how they died and what causes were behind.

I read something about the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea only a year or two ago.
The larges battle in history since the second world war (measured in humans participating) was supposed to have been between those two contries. Rumors have it that over 100.000 people got killed in that battle.
The death toll was so extremely high because one of the armies used unarmed groups of people to run through mine fields, just to get them cleared.

Did we hear/read/see anything from that disaster? Nope. No western people involved and probably nothing important to fight about...

This doesn't dwarf 9/11.
9/11 was something extraordinary.
Something evil and cunning.
Something the world had never seen before.
It was spectacular! Although in a vicious way.

This is just another natural disaster. Not even comparable to floods/droughts in China which have had millions of people killed in the last century.
Soon it will be forgotten by most of us.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Yaztromo]

This isn't bias in American Media, this is bias in human brains. The further away something is from us personally, the less we care. It's not at all unique to the US.

I disagree. Coverage here in Canada has been massive. The disaster has been the top story, and has been dominating newscasts. The CBC last night even presented twice during its newscast a big list of organizations accepting donations, and how to reach them via phone and the web to do so.

But then again, about twenty years ago it was Canadians that spearheaded sending aid to Ethiopia on a massive scale. I guess our brains are just wired differently.

Yaz.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Scarblac]

I disagree. Here in the UK there has been rather a lot of coverage.

As far as I know, there are a lot of Indian immigrants living in the UK, and of course India used to be a British colony. It is closer to home.

And I meant it more generally anyway. A train crash close to London gets more coverage than a train crash in Chile. And that's the same all over the world.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[asliarun]

Fair enough. I agree with you that the American media is not too concerned because the tsunami didn't directly affect Americans. It would be true for any country as well.

What IS hypocritical is that the same American media or government wages devasatating wars, overthrows governments, and generally meddles around with the affairs of other nations on the justification that they have a *MORAL* obligation to do so.

If the American government or media has such a well endowed conscience (which is a good thing, btw, if applied correctly), then WHERE the F**K is the conscience when entire nations have a very real crisis at hand?

I will put this in perspective by adding that my criticism is targetted at the American media and the government, and not on America as a nation. *People*, regardless of any country, are generally sympathetic, understanding, and helpful. Governments, OTOH, want to gain political mileage out of any international incident, even if it is a calamity. As long as the votebank is not even made aware of the horrors of this multi-national tragedy, why should the government take any action, eh?

bleh

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[lga]

I doubt England, Iraq, or Brazil are pre-empting their programing either.

Actually in the UK the 3 main news channels (BBC News 24, Sky news, ITV News) haven't left the earthquake / tsunami / asia story at all in the last 48 hours apart from the occasional 2 minute headlines roundup. CNN europe and CNBC are barely touching on it, but that's all I would expect from US owned channels. Our main channels also show news occasionally, and when they do it's 90% about the disaster.

I would say that's enough coverage of the disaster for everyone to know about it, and for anyone who wants it to get round-the-clock coverage. What more is needed?

Steve.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[robotoverflow]

Being in Australia, my proximity to the US made me care about the WTC Attack a whole lot less than people over there did, but our media was still all over it. Overnight every news programme here practically became The "9/11 Show", and years later they still continue to contribute a healthy chunk of airtime for 'terror' related stories. In contrast, how many times did Americans see reports related to the Bali Bombings, if at all?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just as much bullshit.

I've watched those danish news too and they pretty much only care about the danes on vacation there.

Out of 20.000 dead they keep talking about 3 dead danes. I'd rather have them ignore the event totally than listen to the lame danish news coverage. The headlines in denmark aren't "20000 ppl dead", no its "10 danes still missing" or "Will the vacations for next batch of turists going down there be cancelled?".

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[rlowe69]

So this tragedy is no 'closer' to us personally in the UK than it is in the US...

Many of the countries hit by this earthquake/tsunami are former British colonies (India, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar/Burma) and others were formerly under the colonial power of European nations (Indonesia was once Dutch ruled, Madagascar was French ruled, etc).

It seems that the UK (and Europe) has much closer personal ties to these countries than the US, so that could explain the increased coverage in the UK.

I agree though, the short attention span of American media definitely has something to do with it. It's interesting that some people are saying "that could never happen to the US, so that's why people don't care."

There's a volcano on the Canary Islands that could erupt and trigger a tsunami that would deluge the Eastern coast of the United States. The west coast of the US is vulnerable to tsunamis created by the "Ring of Fire". Maybe this disaster will not only get counties around the Indian Ocean to take tsunamis more seriously, but also people on the coasts of the US as well.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Zorilla]

You know what they say: a friend in need is a friend with Kroff Dinner!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

So how do you explain then that there is more coverage in Europe on this topic than from the United States? It is also a "far away" place from Europe, but the Media in Europe do see the magnitude of this event.

This is not intended as flamebait, but it shows again that U.S. is more self-centered than Europe.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Zorilla]

Well, now the news channels are speculating on affected countries coming up with an early warning system. Now we get to hear all of southeast Asia squabble over that for the next couple of decades. Whether or not an actual solution gets produced is another story.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[NumberGod]

I think it is unique to the US.

Here in New Zealand, (One NZer confirmed dead so far, not that I feel concerned about that in the scheme of things) I was watching the live BBC coverage on the main TV1 channel here two hours after it happened.

Day two coverage here, the terrible disaster is the top story, and fills the first 20 mins of the 30 mins news, followed by elections in the Ukraine.

NG.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Plugh]

Pappy97 wrote:
No, it's not a foreign 9/11, it's WORSE.

More lives were lost, yes, and more physical damage done. But this was a natural disaster ("act of god", if you prefer). 9/11 was entirely the work of humans acting intentionally. Quite shameful.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I hail from New Zealand, and the media here is usually just as horrible. For some reason though, perhaps because it was so close to home, or becuase we are an earthquake disaster are, or because we are a small nation of islands, the coverage was pretty wide. Still, they devoted a section to explaining the deaths of New Zealanders, both of them.

I actually think that overall, the coverage of this has been pretty good, opposed to something like the Congo. 1000 deaths a day, 3 million killed so far; all human massacre. The biggest conflict since WWII, and the UN sends a few thousands troops to deal with it. As a global commuity, I must say the world can be pretty fucking pathetic sometimes.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jcr]

Why isn't primetime TV pre-empted for round the clock coverage of this?

What else is there to say about it? Aid is on the way from all over the world, and a repeat event from aftershocks is considered unlikely by seismologists. I expect that the people in the affected countries have rather more to worry about than whether you think the news coverage you see is adequate.

But hey, we Americans don't care.

Speak for yourself. Some of us contribute to aid organizations, and don't use a natural disaster as just one more opportunity to take a cheap shot at our countryment.

-jcr

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jcr]

This really dwarfs 9/11, very sad indeed.

It's very sad, yes. I don't quite see what it has to do with 9/11, since this is a natural disaster, not a crime.

-jcr

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zeux]

And then we are back with the "Mine is bigger than yours" speech.

Thousands of people died. You should be ashamed to just write down things like this.

What about sending some money to this people to help them recover from this tragedy?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what you mean is that 9/11 happened in the US and that's why all you Americans are banging on about it the whole time.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

(I'm European>

Look a this CNN article: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/qu ake.aid/index.html

Looks like the US is on it's way to donate more than the combined european union (who have significant more tsunami victims in the area)

>> Team America: World Police:
>> "America...f*ck yeah!"
I always liked: "Money Talks, Bullshit Walks"

regards

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[dasunt]

But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead.

USA Today, December 28, 2004. Front page, above the fold and half of the page below the fold (ignoring the USA Today sidebar): "Disaster takes historic toll." Continues to half of page 2 (other half of page is an ad), with all of pages 10 and 11 devoted to the event. While the subheadline on the front page is US-centric ("Over 22,000 die; hundred of Americans are not located") and parts of the body are also US-centric ("The United States is sending $15 million in cash and resources to the region...") its obvious that the US media is reporting the disaster and its effects on non-Americans.

Now, some, including myself, may criticize the quality of the USA Today's reporting, but it does have a circulation of over 2 million, making it one of the major papers in the US.

Checking the newspaper vending machine, I see that the local paper (Fargo Forum) is also reporting the event as a front page headline. Again, except for the sidebar most newspapers seem to have, its the only story above the fold.

Turning on CNN, I watch through the last minute of "Headlines", wade through a few commercials, and then see their report on the tsunami.

We may not be preempting every other story out there, but the US news organizations seem to be giving this story a lot of weight, by US news standards.

I'm not sure what country you are living in, but yes, Americans do care.

Sure if warning systems were in placed it could have helped lower the death toll, but there is no way to prevent deaths altogether in this situation...

As for preventable, USA Today reports that NOAA did attempt notification of at least two countries: "The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, operated by the National Oceaic and Atmospheric Administration, sent e-mails warning of possible tsunamis within 20 minutes of the quake, said NOAA spokesman Jeff LaDouce. The warnings reached some Australian and Indonesian officials, but the center does not know what became of the information after that." (Cover story, USA Today, December 28th, 2004.) The impression that I'm getting is that South and Southeast Asia had no formal regional notification system, which had disasterous results.

You are right in saying that not all deaths are preventable, but it appears that a good fraction of those deaths were, if the nations involved had an effective regional warning system in place.

PS: USA Today also quotes Arthur C. Clarke. Seems that his story has been picked up by the national newsfeed.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Mr2cents]

I heared in the news that in the US, people living near the coast are informed/learn at school that when the sea retreats suddenly, it's time to find out how fast you can run.. Not a bad idea, imho.

Anyway, to the US slashdotters: is this true or not?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Ath]

This isn't bias in American Media, this is bias in human brains.

Sorry, but I call bullshit. I am an American living in Austria and was in Madrid, Spain during the weekend. This story is getting covered big time in Europe.

The mainstream American press does not cover such a story in the scope it should because most Americans do not care about Thais, Sri Lankans, Indians, and Africans dying.

If you find that sentiment offensive, at least it is a start.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I live 100 miles inland, and I know the warning signs of a tsunami. I know enough to know that if you see them, you are fscked.

Run, you will be swept away. Grab something and you will be hit by debris, then swept away. It's like catching the flash of a nuclear blast, sure there is stuff you can do, but you are simply doubling your chances of survival from 0.1 to 0.2 %.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

In Belgium this has been the sole headline in most news bulletins for two days now. Only 2 Belgians were found dead so far. About the US of A, I say only this: "Cause this is your (I don't want it) United States of ... whatever".

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[ericdano]

"No, it's not a foreign 9/11, it's WORSE. This tragedy, which cost thousands upon thousands more lives than 9/11, was not preventable.

Sure if warning systems were in placed it could have helped lower the death toll, but there is no way to prevent deaths altogether in this situation. At least 9/11 could have been prevented, but right now we have no way to stop earthquakes/tsunamis from happening.

Really now, you think 9/11 could have been prevented huh? So why didn't you do it then? Why didn't anyone? You really can't compare these two things. And to insist that 9/11 was preventable is some great Monday morning Quarterbacking there dude.

Look, they could have had a warning system, but people will die regardless. This type of natural disaster does that. If it happens on the West Coast of the USA, people will die, and we have a warning system. The logistics of moving hundreds of thousands of people just makes it impossible. We even have people who die because of Hurricanes, and they have days warning.

"But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead. Why isn't primetime TV pre-empted for round the clock coverage of this? 8 Americans dead isn't enough to pre-empt programming."

What stations are you watching? I am seeing a ton of coverage. I would assume that we will be seeing even more as reporters get into those areas. I imagine since it's so soon after the disaster that getting into the area is extremely difficult.

"What's really sad is that the bias reflects most Americans: They don't care about it, since Americans weren't affected that much (except the 8 that died). Typical Americans, at most, only care enough to ask "Could this happen to us in America?""

I think YOU are the one showing bias. I am very much concerned about this. I live on the West Coast, in an area that could be subjected to this very type of disaster. I've already donated money to the American Red Cross to help victims. What have you done other than bitch and complain? Oh wait, you said 9/11 was preventable. Gotcha. You're Monday Morning Quarterbacking......

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[SnapShot]

Grew up on the Oregon coast. Sounds like cow pucky to me. Why would the sea retreat?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

The Bali what? Ha ha, you crazy aussies trying to have your own little terrorist event.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Denmark has no colonial ties to these countries, but the tsunami is big news around here. However the media seem to focus on the tourist industry. A lot of danes have gone to Thailand, Indonesia, or India for holidays

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Pow.R Toc.H]

Here in Brasil all local stations gave massive reports on the catastrophe: morning, afternoon and evening news. BandNews, our local CNN, gives it full alternate blocks of news every hour - that means, of 4 blocks of news shown during 60 minutes, 15 are dedicated exclusively to the incidents.

This happens because there are more brasilians going to Thailand that you could imagine - Jeez, I haven't no idea that there were that many brasilians down there! And before someone calls this a selfish reasoning, there are brasilian people that voluntarized already to help people on these countries. No, it won't be a good time for them.

[]'s
Paulão

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[JackAsh]

Hehe - I'm a spaniard living in America and I too was in Madrid over the weekend (still am, actually). I agree with you that Europe is covering this quite a bit, but not outside the normal shows. TV is still going on, regular shows are being programmed. During the news this gets absolutely top billing and the same footage is repeated over and over again. Still, it's nowhere near 9/11 news reporting. During that tragedy EVERY SHOW on EVERY CHANNEL was preempted, in many cases there wasn't even any advertising. Channels that had no good news reporting simply switched over to the CNN feed.

Nonetheless, I have to point out a flaw in your reasoning and the grandparent post's - the reason this is different than 9/11 is not because of the distance, or evil americans not caring about foreign citizens. That influences only how much time you spend on the specific story in the news shows.

The difference is, 9/11 was a man-made disaster. Back in 2001, someone decided to take down those two towers, and do it in a particularly gruesome way that set back american civil liberties pretty seriously. Some asshole in a hat figured that he didn't like us for a some reasons that I'm sure feel perfectly logical to him and attacked us. Had it been a nation doing the attacking and not a group of terrorists hiding all over the world they would have gotten nuked off the surface of the earth.

This disaster however was natural. The mole people didn't get up last week and figure out they had to kill Arthur C. Clarke before his satellites discover the extent of their underground lair - no, it simply happened. It is tragic, it is terrible, but Mother Nature did not declare war on the Indonesia, Sri Lanka and India - it was just a very unfortunate event. One that could have been ameliorated with the proper warning systems, but that's besides the point now - hopefully they'll be better prepared for the next one.

-Jack Ash

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[cruachan]

I think your friend was probably getting confused with the Dundee Courier's reporting of the sinking of the Titanic, the front page headline for which was famously

"Dundee Man drowns in Shipping Disaster"

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the situation. If you have a major natural disaster in a part of the world with three billion people (India and Indonesia are #2 and #3 in population) then you're going to see high numbers.

Don't send money, send birth control pills. Reduce birth rates and increase the amount of money that can be spent on a per capita basis on warning systems, stronger buildings, and better communications. That's the only really effective way to reduce high death tolls in the future. I don't want to underestimate the terrible, individual tragedy of this disaster, but sending $20 to the Red Cross/Crecent is, in my opinion, a waste of time.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, only on /. can some ASSHOLE turn a natural disaster into a 'hate USA' rant. Sad.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

You are scum.

You're just making an excuse for your own callousness.

If I met someone like you in person I would smack you to the ground!!!!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[aurispector]

...and I hear our gov't has pledged all of 15 MILLION dollars! With and estimated 40,000 dead that works out to a whopping $375 per body.

The attitude must be something like the old Jay Leno commercials for Doritos. 40K dead? They'll make more!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Momoru]

I think you're just assuming the US isn't covering this much, as another poster said, i have seen almost nothing else on the news, and it is the top story of every newscast. Yes, people who are not directly effected will not "care" as much as those who are, for instance do you think the Ukraine is preempting all their election news with Tsunami coverage? It's doubtful, so while the US is covering the Tsunami coverage EXTENSIVELY, the news channels are also covering Iraq as many people are worried about what is happening to their children.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Bull999999]

But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead.

And since when did you get to speak for all of Americans? If you haven't noticed, tsunami story have been on the front pages of all major U.S. media websites, such as CNN, Fox News, NBC News, and ABC News. Are you so freaking lazy that you're only capable of watching/reading news if it's shown on prime time TV on Fox?

What's really sad is that the bias reflects most Americans: They don't care about it, since Americans weren't affected that much (except the 8 that died). Typical Americans, at most, only care enough to ask "Could this happen to us in America?"

While your actions will most likely be limited to bitching on Slashdot and maybe various other forums, there's already some relief campaigns starting in the U.S.

Having volunteered in soup kitchens in the past, I've noticed that most of the fellow volunteers were from church groups, preppies from various high school and college clubs/organizations, and select few who need to get their court ordered community service done. There are plenty of Americans who do care. Granted, there are also plenty who don't give a damn (and some who act like they care but won't anything about it exact bitching), but because because you fall into this catagory doesn't means every other Americans do as well.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pedestrian crossing]

The sea retreats just before the tsunami hits because the wave is symmetrical. When the wave is out at sea, it is very deep. When the bottom of the wave hits the shallows, there is nowhere for the water to go but up. This pulls the water away from the shore as the wave builds up.

A lot of people got swept away (or dragged over the coral) because they were naturally curious when they saw the sea suddenly retreat and walked out to see what was going on, only to get hammered when the wave arrived.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an American who left the USA in 1984 out of an interest to see the world (the only person in my circle of friends to do so BTW). Over those years I have visited Sumatra, Thailand, Sri Lanka and Southern India numerous times. I'm living now in Sydney and shocked at the devestation and horrified that people I knew there may have perished. I turn on Fox News usually for comic relief, but their continued non-coverage of this monumental tragedy makes it more embarassing to be be an American citizen. While they do seem to have increased their coverage somewhat in the past 12 hours, they always have to conclude their list of horrific statistics with a dramatic sigh of relief that only 8 (or whatever number it is) Amercans are known dead. Of course what do you expect from the same 'news' channel which usually covers world events in a segment entitled "Around the World in 80 Seconds" -- complete with a countdown clock to let you know the segment is nearly over so you won't switch channels out of desperation for more news on the latest 'homicide' bomber in Iraq. I'm proudly getting Aussie citizenship in March, and not a moment too soon.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Indy Media Watch]

But hey, we Americans don't care.

Actually, I think you'll find America cares a lot more than some of its critics, and given its low death-count (8 or so) has a whole lot less motivation to. That did not stop America from doing the right thing however.

As for TV programming, last I checked, CNN was American. They have hardly ignored it for the last 48 straight hours. America F**K yeah indeed!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

It is front page news in my local paper again today.

Shut the fuck up and go make some waffles.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Vasan]

Many of the countries hit by this earthquake/tsunami are former British colonies ...

I bet if it happened in the U.S., the British media would give it the same kind of coverage!!

Oh wait...

Nevermind :P

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[creativityLost]

This isn't bias in American Media, this is bias in human brains. The further away something is from us personally, the less we care. It's not at all unique to the US.

True, but the media (at least the german ones) add to this. They report half the time of the tragedy in a whole and half the time about german victims. "X germans are dead but the number may increase". This really pisses me of. Is it more tragic if a german dies than someone of any other nationality? No, when I hear "he/she is dead" I don't ask "Was he/she german?", nevertheless the media repeatedly answer that question. The fact that germans died too means there's a slight possibility it might be someone I know, but this chance is like tiny. There are other nationalities in germany. People I also know and care about who are not german.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[rttichnor]

My favorite Aussie stories are the "Tunnel Rats" of Vietnam !!!

Good stuff...

However, I remember the Bali Bombings. There were two bombings, to be exact. One in a bar, one in a vehicle. After 9/11 in America, our pain was our top priority. The Bali Bombings may not have had the coverage the Australians would have liked, but we were a nation getting ready to hand out some whoop-ass.
Call it "Tunnel Vision" on our part.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zwaffle]

Amazing how some posters always manage to find some angle to blame the US. This thime "Americans don't give a shit!"

Yet, I saw on the BBC that the USA is the country that's giving the most money to help out with that disaster (way more than all EU). Go figure...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Jamesie]

There's a volcano on the Canary Islands that could erupt and trigger a tsunami that would deluge the Eastern coast of the United States.

I don't think it even needs to erupt, a documentary on tsunami said that the volcano is made up of very badly weathered rock and could collapse under its own weight. If it did that the millions of tonnes of rock sliding into the water would send a tidal wave across the atlantic that would knock out most of the east coast of the US.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[isa-kuruption]

Here we go again... "blame America, it's their fault... they're losers and don't care about anyone else... and the media OMG the media".

To say this isn't a tragedy would just be stupid, but you can not compare the tragedy of 9/11 to this tragedy. On 9/11, we saw the worst of human existance, Osama Bin Laden and his minons, attack and kill nearly 3000 people. This tragedy is more related to the evil of human nature.

The tragedy in the Indian ocean is of a different flavor. A more apt comparison is to that of the Earthquake in Iran. Tens of thousands of people killed by the forces of nature. Nothing we can do when this happens but to "ride it out."

However, to say Americans do not care is simply ignorant. The U.S. has already begun sending money to the region along with aide workers (more to come, stay tuned...). The US is not just simply "laying back". However, you're right, there is also media coverage of *other* things and if there wasn't, you'd be complaining about how the media is "hiding the quagmire in Iraq" by only reporting on the tsunami. Besides, the US has about 200,000 of the greatest citizens over in Iraq fighting for freedom accompanied by nearly $150 billion, so of course this should be part of our daily news cycle... not just ignored.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[OhPlz]

>>If the American government or media has such a >>well endowed conscience (which is a good thing, >>btw, if applied correctly), then WHERE the F**K is >>the conscience when entire nations have a very >>real crisis at hand?

The US government has already offered its assistance. You see, that's what sucks about people.. they assume that because CNN isn't running 24h coverage of an event that it means that the US is completely uninvolved.

If you hate America then just say so, you don't have to spout lies and rhetoric.

Heck, the mere fact that this event brings up a debate involving 9/11 shows how messed up people are in the head.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

"Many of the countries hit by this earthquake/tsunami are former British colonies (India, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar/Burma) and others were formerly under the colonial power of European nations (Indonesia was once Dutch ruled, Madagascar was French ruled, etc)."

and the reason for canada having a lot of coverage is what?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[adpowers]

I live in Seattle. We aren't likely to get hit with anything (I don't think) because we have a nice big peninsula protecting us. However, I've known since I was little that a retreating sea meant a tsunami was coming. I can't remember how I learned that. Actually, now that I think of it, I seem to have a vague memory of a book or story about a tsunami... very possibly Japanese in origin. If I remember correctly, the water went out and lots of people went to pick up fish before the wave struck. Hmm. It would be interesting to know what that book was, now that I have thought about it.

So, while I don't remember explicitly being taught about tsunami danger in school (we are fairly far from the coast, even though we are on the water), it seems to be fairly common knowledge about the sea retreating.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah and then I'll put them up your butt and get chocolate

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[seven of five]

Why isn't primetime TV pre-empted for round the clock coverage of this? 8 Americans dead isn't enough to pre-empt programming.

I was puzzled at first by the lack of American coverage. BTW I am American and I care. Yes of course there's the 'poor foreigners' aspect which changes our level of concern. But there are other factors. The cause of this catastrophe is better understood in nature and scope. This was a natural catastrophe, not an attack. There was one earthquake and one (set) of sea waves. In 9/11 no one knew if more attacks were imminent so a prolonged state of alert was probably necessary. And 9/11 demanded a different political response. No one, not even George Bush, is going to launch missles against a sea trench.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why don't US then pay for its UN membership. ....oh sorry you need to dictate some laws in the
Europe first.?!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because Sri Lanka/Indonesia is one of the many places your old UK paedophiles go to satisfy their unholy urges. With about 75% of your senior citizen males (and a few females like Patsy and Edina) in places like that, of course you're going to care more. Stupid Americans don't have pervy grandparents. At least not as many as you lot do.

Spoken with true Aussie pride ;P

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Taladar]

A train crash close to London gets more coverage than a train crash in Chile.

Sure it does. Otherwise the people might notice that a lot more people die in car, train and other "small" crashes and would demand more focus on that but you can't manipulate people with the "War against train crashes" as well as you can with the "War against Terrorism" (they won't allow you to remove basic rights to make trains safer because they know these are not connected)

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[The Spoonman]

if the media coverage really is as bad in the US as grandparent poster seems to imply

It's not. Every newspaper I've seen in the last few days has had this as the headline and every news broadcast I've heard has been about it. The grandparent poster is either a troll, or lives in a cave with his fingers in his ears going "la la la la!". Most likely, it's both.

Today's news HAS been decidedly pro-American, discussing the BILLIONS of dollars worth of aid, relief and support that's on the way. But we're used to it, that's the part of the media coverage that's typically ignored. (And, yes, I read Egeland's remarks. He's a fucker without a clue.)

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

> This is not intended to be flamebait.

You might as well have concluded with "please flame me out of existence," and you deserve it too. There is more going on in the world then your stupid US problems caused by your ignorant and moronic US foreign policies. This is not some you-had-it-coming or we-told-you-so incident. Please keep your tasteless comparisons to 9/11 of everything involving human deaths to yourself, the world doesn't want to hear them. Next time come with some real compassion instead of this oh-help-its-not-our-15-minutes cry for attention.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Taladar]

It is only natural that American Media won't tell about the people the US Military killed in Iraq.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are some people bitching about American attitudes? We care about you. I personly think
the america culture are (some)on the wrong track.
Everyone are affected of the culture they live in.
Thats why it is scary to watch foxnews and so on.
I am sorry, but u don't see events as we do in europe.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't post using a monospaced font. It's annoying and will make people take you less seriously.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Zzootnik]

Actually, that sounds extremely similar to a discovery-channel special I saw about "the big one" that hit Hawaii earlier last century... pretty horrific was the impression that I got, as nobody knew that was what was happening, and they all trundeled off to get their free fish-- "Oh what a lucky day!"

As far as "Common knowledge" goes, living in Iowa, I can honestly (and red-facedly) admit that until my early 20's, I didn't know the difference between a Hurricaine and a Tsunami. ------- Sorry, but it just never came up.

Knowing what I know now, though, if I'm ever visiting some sandy beach, and I see the tide go far away fairly quickly, you can bet I'll be beatin feet/stealing a car/swiping a moped in a big hurry...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[asliarun]

Look, i don't hate America any more that i hate India, China, France, or whatever. Again, if you read my comment carefully, you'll see that i have nothing against America itself.

Firstly, adequate media coverage isn't even the issue here. The issue is how much assistance a global superpower is offering for a calamity that has affected thousands, possibly millions of people. My point is that if a developed country can spend billions in waging wars, spending a few million on rescue efforts does not cut it. Calamities of this scale need as much help as they can get. Again, this is not a under-developed country taking this as an excuse to get some aid from a superpower or whatever.

What is needed on an immediate basis is NOT money or even media coverage but planes, helicopters, first-aid, medicine, bulldozers, and skilled personell to co-ordinate and implement the rescue efforts.

Incidentally, i didn't even mention 9/11 as it's completely irrelevant to this tragedy. Nobody's trying to trivialize a tragedy here, be it 9/11 or the current one. The other commenters probably brought up the subject of 9/11 only to contrast the media coverage received by it vis a vis the media coverage that the tsunami is getting.(and hence, the importance accorded to the tragedy by a country).

Again, i'm not saying that America is unaware or not helping out in this tragedy. I only feel that they can do much more. Perhaps, i made some blanket statements about the american media and the governance, which in retrospect, i feel were a bit immaturish. For this, i apologize.

However, countries can do much more than just throw some money and look away. Heck, USA has a huge naval base in Diego Garcia, which is, nautically speaking, a stone's throw away from the tsunami affected countries. They can at least offer to help out in the rescue efforts.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[lobsterGun]

well said.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

"The death count is what, in the tens of thousands? This is a very sad event for the whole world."

Yes, very sad. So, does anybody know any deadly tsunami jokes? Like, Q: "How many deadly tsunamis does it take to screw in a light bulb?" A: "Deadly tsunamis don't screw in light bulbs. They screw in hot tubs."

Wait, that's Californians. But anyway, you get the idea.

Hey, I know, Q: "How does a deadly tsunami load babies onto the back of a pickup truck?" A: "It uses a pitchfork."

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[muzzmac]

Still. Nothing like 9/11 coverage even here in Australia.

I guess the towers falling made pretty impressive pictures and there isn't the Whodunnit with this horrible disaster...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[letxa2000]

But hey, we Americans don't care. Since only 8 Americans died (thus far) in the trajedy, the news isn't covering it the way you might think they would for a single event that has caused (so far) over 20,000 dead.

It has nothing to do with being American and everything to do with how far away it is and the fact that we know what happened. There was an earthquake, tsunamis, and people died. Terrible natural disaster but there's not a whole lot more we can know about what happened other than watch the death count go up.

I live in Mexico and even though Mexican TV broadcasts covered 9/11 non-stop for the rest of that week, this tragedy isn't pre-empting Mexican broadcasting either.

Feel free to criticize all of us as human beings but for once in your life try to avoid the temptation of blaming it on nasty, unsympathetic Americans. Your liberal bias is showing.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

CNN europe and CNBC are barely touching on it

Right? I don't receive CNBC here, but CNN europe is 95% about the tsunamis now, and has been nearly 100% over the last days. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The US CNN's are quite bad from a world perspective but the international one is in general faster and more accurate than BBC.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

where's your Support for The Government, nitwot! It was Usama who used his iraqi news to kill 3 americans!

oh yes, 60.000 asians were swept away too, who cares..

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[shokk]

Mother nature did this, not other humans. You'll have to excuse her, she's a little neutral to our little conflicts over who owned what grain of sand first. But I suppose someone will find a way to say the US and Bush did this.

Most of the affected countries couldn't give a crap if 280 million Americans disappeared off the face of the earth and many of them even pray for it. But, yes, 50,000 dead is a great tragedy. Comparing it to 9-11 is childish.

I hope you don't mind if we sit this one out. Maybe the rest of the world could lend a hand this time, seeing as they're not busy fighting terror?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jav1231]

Good point. I wondered how long it would take for the U.S. to be blamed. Looks like no one has found a way to blame the U.S. for causing this, so they're blaming the U.S. for not giving a shit. When all is said and done, however, it will be the U.S. who spends the most money on it. A huge chunk of the world, and "the blue states" may be "ashamed of the U.S." but they know where to get the handout, don't they? Everyone of these negative posters can piss-off. I hope I live long enough to see the U.N. booted out of NYC. The ONLY good they server there is as a convenient place for us to spy on the governments of the world.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[letxa2000]

The issue is how much assistance a global superpower is offering for a calamity that has affected thousands, possibly millions of people.

Let me answer your question: More than any other country.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[rah1420]

when the sea retreats suddenly, it's time to find out how fast you can run.

I figure that if you surveyed the people who lived on the coastal regions that at least 90% of them - and that's a way conservative estimate - would probably be blithely ignorant of this.

I learned it from Sir Arthur in his book "Childhood's End," myself.

It's kind of like when you're at a rock concert and you see a pyro tech start running -- try and keep up with him. :)

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[rwise2112]

As another Canadian, I can say this true.

I was switching between CTV Newsnet and CNN this morning - CTV was covering this very important event, while CNN was discussing gay marriage and the upcoming election in Iraq.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Hooptie]

I couldn't find a good place to put this comment, so I'll just jam it in here.

After reading about the American media ignoring this event, I did some web surfing. I checked cnn.com, foxnews.com, news.bbc.co.uk, cbc.ca and dw-world.de (Deutsche Welle). They all had something about the tsunami as the main headline on the page. One interesting thing I saw on DW's site was the difference in headlines between the German and English versions. The German headline was "Ausmaß der "Jarhundertkatastrophie" wird sichtbar" (roughly "Extent of the "Hundred Year Catastrophy" becomes visible") but the English headline was "Germany Doubles Aid to Tsunami Area". Why is there a difference?

Hooptie

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[asliarun]

Good to hear that!

Hopefully, with a concerted effort, we should all be able to pull through and at the very least, minimize the loss resulting from this tragedy.

Again, i didn't mean to offend anybody here. Just ignore it as the frustrations of someone who's been affected (albeit, indirectly) from this tragedy, will ya?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[LnxAddct]

I don't know what these folks are talking about. There is plenty of coverage on this in the States. At least along the major East Coast cities like Philadelphia and New York. I get the feeling that those complaining are some farm boys that read the local paper about a cow dying or something and realize that this tragedy wasn't written about. (No offense to farmers, I'm friends with a few)
Regards,
Steve

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[slowhand]

I disagree. Its not in our brains - it IS the media. I tuned in as soon as I heard. Network news comes on (Baltimore-Washington, DC area). they mention the possible loss of 10-20,000 lives, "more coverage later". Then they go to local news, sports, weather, THEN Tsunami Tragedy coverage. I was livid. Thousands dead, thousands missing, thousands homeless, thousands will be starving, thousands left with nothing while we sit near our Christmas trees with thousands of dollars in retail-frenzied purchases, watching the media advertise to us on commercial break before showing us what may be the largest single loss of human life in a single day.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that you're stupid. There is huge media coverage in the U.S. You just blindly believe whatever the idiots on Slashdot post. You are nothing but a pathetic little sheep.

Have you considered suicide? It really is a good option for some people.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Hognoxious]

A train crash close to London gets more coverage than a train crash in Chile. And that's the same all over the world.

All over the world apart from Chile, I assume.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Hognoxious]

Here in the UK there has been rather a lot of coverage. Most of the newspapers here have several pages worth of articles covering how bad things are, and how the humanitarian efforts are proceeding in the various affected countries.

It's a quiet news period (if you don't believe that, look at some of the stories on /. recently), so there's nothing else. They'll get distracted soon enough. David Beckham or something, probably. Sad, but that's the press for you. What, cynical? Me?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[EastCoastSurfer]

Looks like no one has found a way to blame the U.S. for causing this, so they're blaming the U.S. for not giving a shit.

ROFL, I was listening to talk radio yesterday and some enviro whacko called in to blame the US (and other civilized nations) for the earthquake. His premise was that by building roads and basements we have weakned the tensil strength of the earths crust and the crust is now falling apart. At least it gave me a good laugh.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[sribe]

I disagree. Here in the UK there has been rather a lot of coverage. Most of the newspapers here have several pages worth of articles covering how bad things are, and how the humanitarian efforts are proceeding in the various affected countries... but if the media coverage really is as bad in the US as grandparent poster seems to imply, then I think that really is a clear indication of the different attitudes taken by the media in our two countries.

No, you mistook the grandparent's criticism. What we have here in the US is this tragedy on the front page of every newspaper, with many pages of coverage inside, much like what you described over there. Also every TV newscast is spending more time on this story than anything else--I would say that about half last night's news was this story alone.

What the grandparent post asked was why aren't the networks pre-empting normal programming for continuous 24-hour coverage of this story? And the answer really is quite simple: it happened somewhere else far away.

The closer to home a story happens, the more coverage it gets relative to its absolute importance. This of course applies every day to news of things within our borders. No matter where you are in this huge country, the news will spend time on local stories that don't even get mentioned at all in other states. Gee, imagine that, news organizations spending time on things that only their own readers/viewers would care about!

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[spac3manspiff]

"Americans don't give a shit!"
No, we're just saying that the american media doesnt give a shit. All they care about is $$ and ratings.
America shouldnt be associated to the dumb media.
Anyways I hope the survivers are able to get help or even more lives will be lost.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure that's right. This is Belgium, two major things happened (really major on Belgian scale), but my newspaper (can't speak for the other papers) has coverage with almost a _third_ of the articles devoted to this tragedy.

By the way, is't that fellow a bit cynical? First talking about his infrastructure, than about people?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Ignorant Aardvark]

In my opinion, 9/11 was worse because it WAS preventable. Things that aren't preventable are inevitable ... there's no use in crying over spilt milk that was destined to be spilled. Nature is a mean mother and every so often she does something bad that punishes people who foolishly live in areas that are susceptible (this goes to any hicks who live in Tornado Alley or anyone who lives on the side of an active volcano, too).

On the other hand, 9/11 was perpetrated by humans and was entirely preventable. That, in my opinion, makes it much worse.

Of course, if you look at it from an economic perspective ... 9/11 just took out a few office buildings. This tsunami has destroyed millions of homes. In the long run the effect of the tsunami will probably be worse than that of 9/11.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[bigpat]

"I disagree. Here in the UK there has been rather a lot of coverage"

If you listen to the BBC in the US then the coverage is obviously the same as in the UK. I believe many of the major US radio markets carry BBC, so, the unfortunate reality might be that those who care about the rest of the world will listen to the BBC, plus CNN and CNN Headline News have had pretty continuous coverage of this disaster also. The rest can watch or listening to local interest stories, sports and weather and occassionaly the latest skirmish in Iraq and only getting the latest tally of dead from the local stations. But really these "news" organizations have very little resources to report on worldwide news, so I think it is understandable that they can only report the aggregate of what other more capable news gathering organizations can.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zoeith]

And in other news, Lacy Peterson...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[MightyMartian]

> and the reason for canada having a lot of coverage is what?

I can't speak for the rest of Canada, but here in coastal British Columbia, we've had one historical tsunami and evidence of other big events. We are just as vulnerable as folks in coastal Asia.

Imagine 30 foot waves hitting Vancouver.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[MightyMartian]

> I was switching between CTV Newsnet and CNN this morning - CTV was covering this very important
> event, while CNN was discussing gay marriage and the upcoming election in Iraq.

I dunno. Every time I turned on CNN yesterday, it was about the tsunami. There are other things going on, and while the tragedy in Asia is the big story, the news agencies want to cover other things as well.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[MightyMartian]

> Then why don't US then pay for its UN membership. ....oh sorry you need to dictate some laws in the
> Europe first.?!

I'd rather have the US contributing to aid in the event of such a tragedy than in the UN. My hunch, of course, is that the UN and the Red Cross will be the major channels through which American foreign aid travels anyways.

I'm no fan of American foreign policy, but why can't you give credit where credit is due?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jav1231]

Now THAT is funny! That is a serious depth of ignorance but then again, so are so many who buy into this crap. Then they band together in groups and think that by saying it enough it become accepted truth. This quake is a terrible tragedy but almost equally terrible is that the U.N. and many other corrupt bodies are going to profit from it at the expense of tax payers in the U.S. and other countries giving help.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[ender-]

I don't recall learning anything like that in school, although granted, I mostly grew up in a town 1500 miles from either coast [and maybe 500 miles from the Gulf of Mexico]. I only went to school on the east coast [NJ] through 2nd grade, and otherwise only spent summers at the beach in NJ.

In the course of reading books on my own, however; I did learn that if the sea suddently recedes, to get the hell outta dodge asap.

ender-

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

When the MSM can find a way to blame President Bush and the U.S. for this, then you will get the wall-to-wall coverage that you so desire.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

oh really?

so why were so many ppl sympathetic over 9/11?
oh right. We aren't as smart as you guys

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zwaffle]

Ah yeah,
Do you even watch american media?
The first page of the NYTimes for the last few days has been about the disaster.
And guess what's the top headline on cnn.com, abcnews.com, msnbc.com...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

There is nothing insightful about opinionated disinfomation.

What's really sad is that the bias reflects most Americans: They don't care about it, since Americans weren't affected that much (except the 8 that died). Typical Americans, at most, only care enough to ask "Could this happen to us in America?"
Is this your opinion or do you have some kind of telepathy that allows you to know the heartbeat of America? This isn't how I feel and neither do the people I know.

Everytime I see FOX NEWS show little coverage of this trajedy and move on to the War in Iraq, I am reminded of the hilarious satire song from Team America: World Police:
Fox News carried this story all day on Sunday. So did CNN and MSNBC. Obviously you don't watch Fox News but feel your important enough to mis-inform the rest of us.

Fox News did an interview with the Ambassador to Sri Lanka this morning, and, get this, got him to tell them were their listeners could send aid donations. Those dirty bastards.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[learn fast]

Another important and horrifying difference between this and 9/11 was that there was LIVE VIDEO of the whole thing as it occured. Everyone in the world could helplessly watch the whole thing unfolding as it was actually happening.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

Wow. Thanks for all the responses. The last thing I expected was to check this and see 30 replies to my post.

That said, here a few things to note:

1.) I never said the American Gov't doesn't care. They certainly do, and our nation is sending aid. This does remind me of a 9/11 difference though. When 9/11 happened, there was ample footage of people all over the world crying in the streets (Esp. Paris) and it was a world story. HOW MANY OF US AMERICANS, WITH NO CONNECTION TO ANYONE IN SE ASIA, CRIED OVER THIS DEVASTATION??? The news has said that perhaps a whole GENERATION of children will be lost in some parts of Indonesia and Sri Lanka. This statement doesn't even get a typical "America...f*ck yeah" ethno-centric redneck to blink, let alone cry. However we keep tabs on who cried over 9/11.

This reminds of when thousands of Australians were killed in Bali. Here in the USA you never heard about it, and I've heard Australians furious because they consoled us over 9/11, but when Australians were victims of terrorism, we could care less. For f*ck sakes, the largest terrorist attack since 9/11 happened in Spain earlier this year. How many of us "America...f*ck yeah" ethno-centric Americans could tell you they ever heard about that event?

2.) Now the death toll is more than 40,000. 40,000 people!!!!! Are you kidding me???? ANYTIME 40,000 die in one occasion TV should be pre-empted (At least sunday and parts of Monday). If anything, if you want to be bias, you can say that people here could have family there and need round-the-clock coverage, since many will be unable to contact their families over there to see if they are ok (sounds like 9/11 aftermath, huh?)

3.) I am not liberal by any means. My point is the media only shows what the audience wants to see. Media outlets know Americans could care less about this huge number of people dying somewhere "remote" in their ethno-centric areas. The only reason they would care (Since by in large, we American's don't give a rats a$$. If we did, we'd get a lot more coverage than we have now) is to make sure this kind of thing can't happen on the west coast/Alaska.

4.) I am an American attacking fellow Americans for not caring. Now 40,000+ people dead, and I bet if you surveyed the American public as a whole, this news hasn't affected their lives in any way. That is just sad.

Oh the humanity, or lack thereof.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

"In fact, many many more people have been killed in bombings in Iraq, so I guess they should at least get equal attention."

Okay, but take a look back at coverage of the war since it started. How often do you hear about Iraqis, especially innocent Iraqis killed? You only hear about how many Americans died.

That's all we care about, and it is just plain sick.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

My other point is this:

There should be no difference between the coverage here and coverage if this event happened in the USA and caused the deaths of 40,000+ Americans.

BUT YOU ALL KNOW THE COVERAGE WOULD BE MASSIVELY DIFFERENT, and all that crap about this being a done and over event you would all take back and say, yeah, we should have round the clock coverage.

Just because it happens on the other side of the world and not in the USA doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered the way it would be if this trajedy happened in the USA.

That's what is said. If this happened in the USA, Americans would demand (if they didn't already have it) 24/7 coverage from every major network.

Just because hardly any Americans died shouldn't mean we Americans shouldn't care. But on average, most don't.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

" Still. Nothing like 9/11 coverage even here in Australia."

Exactly, and I am here to tell you that coverage of terrorists killing Australians in Bali was non-existent in the USA.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

The initial amount was 15 million, another 20 million has been added.

So it's $375 per body, what's your point? It's not like the U.S. is buying corpses, they are sending money to help the living. If you care to figure out how much that is per person, the figure will come out much lower.

If you don't think enough money is being sent, break out your wallet and send some money. If you already have, great. If not, shut the fuck up.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[NullProg]

I heared in the news that in the US, people living near the coast are informed/learn at school that when the sea retreats suddenly, it's time to find out how fast you can run.. Not a bad idea, imho.

True. I lived in California for three years. When I got there the first thing I was told was watch the ocean after a quake. If the water starts to recede, run for the hills.

Enjoy,

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[makohund]

Also grew up on the Oregon Coast. (North Bend/Coos Bay area) How the hell can you not know this? For the original poster's information, it is taught in schools. Some of them, at least.

There are also tsunami warning signs at nearly every single beach, that even tell you about that particular warning sign if you bother to read them. I'm talking all over the Oregon coast, not just where I'm originally from.

There are even signs pointing out tsunami escape routes in some places.

Jeez... I thought everyone around here knew that stuff. Just like everyone knows about our rip-tides. Right??

It should be obvious at an elemental level... watch the waves at the beach any time. The water goes out, then comes back in with each wave. Well, if the water REALLY goes out... it's REALLY gonna come in! RUN!

Here is a not quite scientifically accurate (but not too far off) example that illustrates the effect pretty well for those that have trouble getting the concept:

Take a rectangular pan of water and give it a single good rock from one side to the other, then back. Note that the water on the first side gets really shallow while the water has gone to the other side. But then it comes crashing back along with the water from the other side, probably splashing out of the pan and getting all over the floor.

Not quite what happens with a tsunami, but the effect is similar. The big wave of energy rolls along till it hits shallow water, then starts to rise up. That rising water comes from somewhere... much of it from the beach ahead. Don't stick around to see where all that water went off to. It didn't go far, and it's gonna come right back atcha with a vengeance very quickly. Just like the pan of water in your kitchen, but amplified just a bit... let's say, a few million times or more. ;)

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[-noefordeg-]

How can this be modded Flamebait, when people are posting so much crap around here.

The only reason this disaster is getting so much media cover is because we have people there who filmed the waves and corpses. If not, no one would have even heard about it.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jafac]

9/11 was a disaster that may have been triggered 56 years ago, and since that morning in 2001, it's been continuing to extract a toll ever since. Who knows how long the deaths from 9/11 will continue? Who knows how long these events will erode human civilization? Who knows how much progress we've made since The Enlightenment will be undone? Who knows what the ultimate cost will be?

The real tragedy is that the application of some basic human decency at several points along the course of this historical train-wreck could have stemmed the losses, or even prevented it from occuring in the first place.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Sukh]

Try this for size: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4129 579.stm. "The United States has promised $15m in immediate aid and has said more will follow. The European Union has pledged $40.5m." In addition, EU member states make their own contributions.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[aurispector]

Fuck you, asshole. Shut me up if you can, but $15 Million is NOTHING.

My point, which you seem too dim to comprehend and too cowardly to confront except anonymously, is that $15M (which was the amount being reported at the time of my post) is about enough to rebuild a gas station and a post office or perhaps an M1A1 Abrams tank. Our society pays more to jackasses who kick little balls down a field. The scope of this tragedy is incredibly huge. I already donate more than a third of my very hard earned income to the government as taxes and I have to watch it being pissed away on irrelevant nonsense. I'm ashamed and embarrassed that significantly more aid isn't forthcoming.

$15 Billion would barely put a dent in the damage caused and the only reason it's not higher is that many of these people were dirt poor to begin with.

To call you a cock-smoker would be an insult to all the hard working, tax paying cock-smokers of the world.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

That's interesting. I was listening to the BBC and they were reporting that the deaths from the tsunamis were a result of lazy Americans at the USGS. Apparently those deadasses couldn't be bothered to pick up a phone and call every person in southeast Asia to warn them.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are the top stories from The Sun(the most popular paper in the UK):

David Beckham Exclusive: Beamer on Ebay for $20k
Leonardo Dicaprio Exclusive: I was naked for two days
He's good in the heir: Wills plays for palace
The world weeps with you: quake toll continues to rise
Ambro Bait in bind for Beatt
Disgrace: Fergie rages over Roon witch-hunt

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad part is that it is not only on /..

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[thisgooroo]

that's not what i read (spiegel, a german news magazine): apparently the usgs tried to issue a warning, but found that there was no procedure in place and nobody to contact

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[BattyMan]

Did it ever occur to you that the media show people might have wanted to take five minutes to put a factual story together, and took the opportunity to cut to commercials whilst they did, because they _knew_ they wouldn't be breaking again for at least the next hour?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I must agree with regards to coverage. Here in Aus effectively two of 5 networks switched to fulltime coverage after Sri Lanka got hit. Before that it was difficult with only sketchy earthquake reports etc, it really took 4 hours at least from the Earthquake before true realisation of what was and had happened to start to effect news. Once it did though the news was inundated with the story.

Since then as video footage and Aussie deaths are reported the coverage has still been very intense.
Also I believe our government was pledging more than ten million within 8 hours and is over 20 million now with a large portion of our military transport assets being switched to helping move aid. Our airlines were switching flights into Malaysia and Thailand to retrieve Australians within a day and some aid was flowing with the planes in the form of health teams and volunteer workers.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[BattyMan]

It is only natural that American Media won't tell about the people the US Military killed in Iraq.

That's simply wrong. Just the other night I was watching US Marines get shot at from some stone house someplace in Iraq. There was much confusion, yelling, and scrambling around. Finally a grenade got thrown into a window. After it went off all of the shooting suddenly stopped, the only noise left was someone screaming. A Marine went up to the window, stuck his rifle muzzle in, took a look in after it, and fired a single shot. The screaming stopped. "He's gone", the Marine said as he turned around and walked away.

So yeah, they're telling us about the people the military killed, and is still killing, in Iraq. We also get photos of every car bomb that goes off, complete with body counts, of both American and Iraqui soldiers killed. They do not bother to count the insurgents killed...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[BattyMan]

Looks like the US is on it's way to donate more than the combined european union (who have significant more tsunami victims in the area)

This ain't unusual:

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Our_Culture/american s.htm

Take note of:
1)The date
2)This was written by a Canadian

And where was the rest of the world last summer, when Florida was pounded, four times, by hurricanes?

Oh, right. Bitching about our overthrow of Saddam's government, that's where. As if the world isn't a better place with him sitting in a jail cell.

And, for the record, we hardly devastated Iraq. We were careful to avoid damaging things like water works and electric power distribution, probably because it was pretty obvious that we'd be rebuilding those things as soon as the shooting quieted down. The worst damage has been done by ba'athist loyalists, trying to keep the fighting going. According to the interim prime minister, the majority of Iraq is peaceful and happy to see America there, it's only a tiny minority that are dressing up in explosive vests and bombing the (combined American-Iraqui military) mess hall, and kidnapping and beheading the contracters we're hiring to keep the power plants and cellphone stations up.

Unless you're Kim Il-Jung, you _really_ do not have a helluva lot to worry about from America. We as a people find invading other countries distasteful. We learned that lesson well in Vietnam. It's only when we're pretty directly threatened that we will defend ourselves, and the rest of the world, too, if necessary.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Peaceful_Patriot]

"Apparently those deadasses couldn't be bothered to pick up a phone and call every person in southeast Asia to warn them."

Its not just the USGS that didn't warn people. Every seismic station in the world must have registered the earthquake and Internet sites update this stuff continuously. People all over the world must have known this earthquake occured and I'm sure there were thousands who knew that a tsunami may strike.

I think the problem is that is was really no ones job to send a warning. Tens of thousands of people have died because everyone assumed it was someone elses responsibility to get the word out.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Inthewire]

Is it more tragic if a german dies than someone of any other nationality?

Not yet.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[pappy97]

"Nature is a mean mother and every so often she does something bad that punishes people who foolishly live in areas that are susceptible (this goes to any hicks who live in Tornado Alley or anyone who lives on the side of an active volcano, too)."

Name me one place in the world where you can't die from natural happenings?

Cali? Earthquakes.

Florida? Hurriances

North Dakota? Buried in Snow

Hawaii? Volcanoes

Come on buddy. Name ONE place where nature can't kill someone.

Yeah, I thought so.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Inthewire]

Single day?

American Civil War.
World War I.
Read _Isaac's Storm_

Life is dear to me.
Life is cheap.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[thisgooroo]

Reduce birth rates and increase the amount of money that can be spent on a per capita basis on warning systems

there aaare no warning systems in this area because it's a very rare event. tsunamis are relatvelt frequent in the pacific and hardly ever occur anywhere else. does the US have a tsunami warning system at the atlantic coast? a tsunami killed 60000 people in lisbon in 1755

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Ignorant Aardvark]

But there is a large difference in degree and likelihood of danger depending on where you live. Just because a natural disaster could conceivably hit anywhere doesn't mean that's equally likely everywhere; on the contrary, the opposite is true.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Punkrokkr]

Apparently they don't teach that on the Atlantic Coast (at least in my area). Grew up on the coast and never heard that. Not sure if I would know if a tsunami was coming just because the sea "retreated," but I sure as heck would know something big was going down and would NOT head out to sea to see what happened. If you are used to the ocean, you get used to the sea going back and forth. Notice the rhythm, back and forth. If it goes back REAL far, it's going to come forward REAL far. Guess we coast dwellers take all that knowledge for granted. I would think it was common sense. Just follows the common saying, "What goes up, must come down." I'm thinking though, that even with that knowledge, you probably wouldn't have enough time to escape a tsunami, especially if everyone else was doing the same. Try getting out of OC after the 4th of July fireworks; there's no way you would get out if everyone knew something big was coming their way (be it Godzilla or a tsunami). I'm sure coastal areas can be quite different, but the only coast I'm familiar with, there are bridges to get the beach, creates a massive bottleneck -- both ways.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Heck, the mere fact that this event brings up a debate involving 9/11 shows how messed up people are in the head.


Why?

The parallels are very clear - though the scale is different. America experienced a tragedy, and the American government pleaded for the world's help. And the world united behind the US in sympathy. people on the other side of the world wore ribbons. poor countries donated money and resources to the wealthy US.

All for only 3,000 deaths.

What does the US do with this global support and sympathy? Spits it in our faces, and calls us terrorist supporters when we question what invading Iraq has to do with terrorism.

My country has troops and billions of dollars worth of equipment helping the USA fight an immoral war that my country does not want.

Now, a much larger tragedy happens, and the US basically doesn't do anything meaningful. it's like the rest of the world has to help the US when it suffers a minor setback, but the US can't be bopthered with anything but its own selfish interests.

the billions spent on Iraq, the troops and military vehicles, would have gone a long way to help this situation. But instead, those troops are torturing Iraqis and giving local work to US contractors like halliburton, instead of Iraqis.

It's like the US only "helps" when it sees a profit. While other nations deploy their militaries to actual peacekeeping and humanitarian missions, the US only uses it for fighting pointless wars.

The whole world supported America after 9/11. America treated this support with contempt, and acted against its own allies. I used to like America, but now she cannot be trusted.

I mean, we discuss these tragic events, and Americans are more concerned about "outsourcing IT jobs to India" or "why does the world hate us" than anything relevant to the actual disaster. just look at the topic of this story - Slashdot is more interested in the fate of a pedophile science-fiction writer, than it is in the fates of the local people. Very sad and disturbing. I mean, where else but the US would such an horrific event be discussed from this immature, self-centered frame of reference?

Do you realize how selfish you look? And you always excuse that with "but everyone else is selfish too" - but that's not true. people have self-interest, but nowhere are people as greedy and as self-centered as in the US.

At least others are able to think of something other than themselves and reinforcing your "USA Number One!" nationalism.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Punkrokkr]

In reading your post I was reminded of the story of the Five Chinese Brothers, could that be the story of which you are thinking?

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[adpowers]

When you said the name it struck a bell. I remember that book from when I was little. I didn't see mention of a tsunami on the Amazon page, but if that is in the book, then it is definitely the one I was thinking of. Thanks! You have been befriended.

Andrew

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[makohund]

Most of the beaches around here aren't very wide... maybe 50-100 yards on average. (Bigger here, smaller there.) They also aren't very crowded at all... don't really need to fear crowds getting bottlenecked at escape points.

Speaking of which, no bridges or anything like that. Beaches aren't really developed at all. You might have to run up a sand berm (full of dune grass), dirt trail, or clamber over some rocks to save time (instead of heading for a regular path)... but most places it's easy to get on/off of the beach itself.

At any of the beaches I frequent, You also gain elevation pretty quickly. Once you hit the edge of the beach, you are going up... could gain 30-50 feet in less than a minute. In some places 100 or more, if you can hack it.

In other words... you'd have to run for it, but you MIGHT just stand a chance, depending on where you are and how big it is. A 30-50 footer might get you wet, but given a minute or two you have a chance at getting to someplace where it might not kill you. Anyone know how long you get once that water starts heading out? ;)

Everywhere else I go you don't need to run... you're already looking down at the ocean from a few hundred feet above it. :)

Here are some examples of our beaches:
http://www.picturesof.net/_wallpaper/brookings_gb_ coast_87n_WP.jpg
http://www.geomembrane.com/040227%20Oregon%20Coast %20029.jpg
http://www.rawdonsbar.com/charliegallery/images/no rthwest/nw-oregon%20coast.jpg
http://www.htmlhelp.com/~liam/Oregon/Coast/Newport /beach1.jpg

Here are some pics of my favorite beaches... Sunset & Simpson Coves. (Collectively referred to as Shore Acres.) Most of the shots don't show the beaches themselves... you mostly see just the cliffs around them. (You've gotta hike some unmarked trails to get to where some of these shots were taken). But one is looking back at Sunset Cove from a tidepool area off to one side. (Note, I took none of these. Just found 'em at google. Apparently a few photographers know my spots!)

http://www.naosmm.org/confer/port-or/gifs/jackpics 2/12.jpg
http://www.naosmm.org/confer/port-or/gifs/jackpics 2/29.jpg
http://www.jobo-usa.com/gallery/images/surf_at_sho re_acres_high.jpg
http://www.hackstadt.com/adv/1998/195b-shore-acres .jpg

Some more good ones here:
http://www.coos-bay.net/coastalphotographs.html

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Punkrokkr]

Ahhh, yes, I tend to forget that it's possible to have beaches and elevation. Here where I live (mid-atlantic), the highest point is probably not more than 20 feet above sea level. In fact, I think the highest point in Delaware is 142 feet above sea level (give or take 10 feet, and that's up north near the PA border).

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Punkrokkr]

No tsunami, but the first brother holds the sea in his mouth so the townspeople can gather shells, fish, etc. He can only hold it a certain amount of time, the people got greedy and wouldn't leave the ocean floor, they got drowned. Sounded similar to the situation you were speaking of.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[adpowers]

Oh, right. Well, maybe that story taught me to not go out when the sea is low. I've been watching some videos of the tsunami hitting and it is sad that people where so oblivious. In a number of them people were out wading in the water or standing just a few meters above sea level. In some of the videos, I swear, I don't see how the people could have survived. The tsunamis are different than I thought. I was under the impression it was one huge wave, but they are much more dangerous. People can see a huge wave coming, but when the sea just keeps rising, people don't know how bad it is going to get and don't react appropriately. I'm amazed by the amount of power and force the water hit with. This truly was a terrible disaster and the videos make me appreciate it that much more.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[jhobbs]

Although I live on the Ocean now, I never learned this in school. I grew up in the heartland. Ah, tornadoes. As such, I can identify a supercell, know that a wall cloud will look like a comma on doplar radar, and to find a stable lower level, inner room, put my head between my knees and put my hands palm down over the back of my head. If outside find low ground. Avoid ditches (flash flooding) and trees (lighting).

My point is, that yes, US schools are very good about teaching safety. It wouldn't suprise me at all that kids in coastal areas learn what to do for tsunamis, huricaines, et. al.

My Elementary school years were filled with safety and health seminars with guest speakers/mascots teaching everthing from school bus saftey, to fire saftey, to dental care, and even a rather odd saftey day about safe roller skating and skate boarding. Oh yeah, electricity saftey day was a blast! One guy in a furry lightning bolt costume with a huge smiley face, one Van DeGraph generator, two terrified first graders, and one very brightly lit florescent tube in thier hands. Great fun.

High School health/saftey demos were much more depressing. . . AIDS, gasoline explosions, major wounds, physical trauma. . . bleh.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. It'd certainly cheer me up if I could hear about iraqis dying.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zelphior]

Anyway, to the US slashdotters: is this true or not?

It is for me. I live in Alaska, which has been hit hard by tsunamis in the past (Kodiak island, for example, was pretty much completely destroyed by the 1964 tsunami). We have a pretty good earthquake and tsunami education system in place, with Tsunami evacuation routs (similar to hurricane evacuation routs found in the Southeast), and even a Tsunami alarm downtown.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[zelphior]

Yeah, and all our pervy grandparents go to florida to watch all the college kids get naked over spring break.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Scudsucker]

Let me answer your question: More than any other country.

Irrelevant. Nobody's impressed when a billionare donates ten bucks to charity. The GOP is planning on spending twice as much money for Bush's second inaguration as the amount currently earmarked for disaster aid for the survivors. Tells you where the priorities are...

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[letxa2000]

Irrelevant. Nobody's impressed when a billionare donates ten bucks to charity.

We're not donating 10 bucks. We're donating $350 million so far. And it has nothing to do with impressing anyone. It has to do with helping people. So far our contribution to the effort will help the victims more than any other contributor.

The GOP is planning on spending twice as much money for Bush's second inaguration as the amount currently earmarked for disaster aid for the survivors. Tells you where the priorities are...

The GOP is planning on spending $700 million on Bush's second inauguration? That's news to me. It seems to me your propaganda is a little out of data.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[Scudsucker]

And it has nothing to do with impressing anyone

If it has nothing to do with impressing anyone, then why do twits like you keep reminding everyone that the U.S. gives more than anyone else in dollar terms?

The GOP is planning on spending $700 million on Bush's second inauguration? That's news to me. It seems to me your propaganda is a little out of data.

You mean out of date? Yes, they've added another zero to the number, but at the time the U.N. was complaining, it was only $35 million. If people are going to bitch about the U.N. for comments they made at the time, then its only fair to talk about those comments in the context of the size of the American donation at the time.

Re:Here's your foreign 9/11

[mlevin]

No, it's not a foreign 9/11, it's WORSE. This tragedy, which cost thousands upon thousands more lives than 9/11, was not preventable.

It certainly was (is) a tragedy, but it is not an injustice. Tsunami victims weren't wronged (well, I guess they were by mother nature, but you can hardly consider her an enemy on whom you'd like to get revenge).

9/11 was a result of someone's (or some group of people's) deliberate plan to harm others. The tsunami was the result of an earthquake. It's different. I'm not saying that one loss of life is worse than the other. Both are tragic. But only one is the fault of fellow humans.

That's good news anyways

[Tokerat]

As we're watching the death toll pile up, it's good to know that at least some have survived. True, hard to sound optimistic about this in light of such a massive tragedy....

I'm glad he's alive, anyways.

Re:That's good news anyways

[Mugros]

Fact is, _most_ have survived, not "some". The death toll is high but the affected area is also huge.

Re:Actually, Rama plummeted into the ocean

[glassjaw rocks]

Who cares about 2130! The world ends on 2029.

Oh, wait.

Cancel that.

Or maybe..

[KinkifyTheNation]

"Arthur C. Clarke Reports From Sri Lanka, Says It's Pretty Wet"

Re:Or maybe..

[WolfgangVonEstevez]

or "Nature Says 'Outsource This'"

yeah, I know, Hell, here I come.

In this thread, we say what we really think...

[P-Frank]

I find it horrifying that someone of Clarke's calibre referenced one of the worst sci-fi films ever produced, The Day After Tomorrow. Run, quickly, the cold is coming to get us!

If this happened to America, I wonder who they would bomb?

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[OneSmartFellow]

If this happened to America, I wonder who they would bomb?

I realise that it's only your sig, however, I would like to point out that last year an Indonesian official blamed the earthquake on zionists !

If anyone is going to take retribution for this event it is not going to be the U.S., but some whacked out Islamic Fundamentalist nation.

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[WolfgangVonEstevez]

If this happened to America, I wonder who they would bomb?

CANADA

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes because only muslim fundamentalists are whacked out. Please, any fundamentalists are whacked out.

After reading www.chick.com im scared of everyone from jews, christians and muslims - they're all crazy!

/Me runs!

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just curious, but where can I find fundamentalist Islamic NATION?

Re: In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Black Parrot]

> If this happened to America, I wonder who they would bomb?

Until a couple of years ago, Iraq. Even now, they might go for Fallujah.

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[cofaboy]

ACC referenced the disaster on a personal basis, where he lives, where people who work for him live.

He probably cannot reference the rest of the area because as he says communications are still very difficult.

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course this quake was caused by a test of GWB's new counter-terrorism-earthquake-weapon; test seemed to be a total success...

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

ahh, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the not quite yet formed Palistinian state is pretty fundamentalist. There are others.

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

If this happened to America, I wonder who they would bomb?

That depends. Where do you live?

Re:In this thread, we say what we really think...

[Anonymous Coward]

Saudi Arabia
Well they call themselves an Islamic nation, but conveniently forget parts - it's against Islamic law to do business or take out a loan when interest is involved.
Saudi Arabia is a classic case of a state using religion to distract the public from oppression.

Iran
Not for long.
Their population is mostly young and liberal. Hardline clerical rule will not last.

the not quite yet formed Palistinian state is pretty fundamentalist
"not quite yet formed" is something of an understatement.

Very sad, .. still going on

[Gopal.V]

Diving stuff and boats were the major disaster area.. I think Sri Lanka is a bit more exposed than Kerala was.

The wave in kerala went nearly 4 kms inland (though it's through the backwaters) and I'm still having painful memories of seeing a white mercedes floating around in the basement of a building ...

The Marine Drive is around 6-7 feet above sea level and is the major business/market area in Cochin - thankfully we're on the right side of India to be compared to the earthquake.

Thanks to a timely news on radio and TV , only a few hundreds were caught unawares ... East coast was not so lucky.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Not that this in any way compares to the devastation you are seeing, but I've seen flash floods in person. My uncle used to live next to a creek that had a habit of overflowing it's banks. I still vividly remember towing pizza and a generator in a Canoe past submerged cars and trucks, and thinking to myself, "inanimate object in boat, people wading next to boat, something is seriously wrong with this picture."

Come on slashdotters, what are your good flood stories?

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[Naikrovek]

well in my homedown, the house i grew up in was in a depression. rain kinda puddled around my house. my dad did an EXCELLENT job of waterproofing the walls and stuff so that wasn't a problem.

The City of Abingdon, Illinois, doesn't like rainwater in their sewers, so they pump it out - and right into customer's homes. since my house was the lowest in town, all the rainwater from the sewers (and sewage that was carried with it) went into my basement. the entire town's turds and femine hygene products wound up in our basement after every heavy rain. The city would not stop pumping, even after legal action was taken. Apparently a city can do whatever it wants to protect city assets. Such is the case in Abingdon, Illinois, anyway.

My father took an old tire inner-tube, cut it from an "O" shape into a "C" shape, rubber cemented and wirewrapped the ends, waterproofing and airproofing them. then, we waited for a rain. when it began to rain hard, we shoved this tube down into the main house drain. in the basement, where the drainpipes left the house, there was a drain grate - we took the grate off, shoved the innertube down into the pipe that led outside, and inflated it. no more of my city's sewage found its way into our house! Yahoo! no more weekends spent hosing toilet paper off our basement walls... But the story does not end here.

When we blocked our sewer, we just diverted the problem. someone else had to deal with it now. then that person figured it out, and the next had a problem. eventually everyone connected to that pump blocked their sewage drains somehow, and the next time it rained, the city's pump kicked in, but that sewage had nowhere to go. The pipe outside our house (which later we learned had been cracked by a nearby tree root) failed, and our front yard erupted with the same familiar sewage. Since the pipe was between our house and the street the city declared the problem to be ours, and went on their merry way. our sewage made it out through that pipe okay, but when it rained, and with the route into every other house blocked, the sewage piled up in our front yard several times a month.

Legal action proved fruitless. My father started attending city council meetings and raising a "stink" about the problem. The city asked him to stop attending city council meetings. He did not comply. He would pull cops over (!) and ask them when the pipe would be patched. He would knock on the mayor's door and ask about the pipe at least once a week. He would bring the issue up with his dentist (also the mayor). He basically performed a very gentle and 100% polite campaign to annoy the decision makers into doing the right thing. None of that worked. This went on for 10 years.

I don't know the rest of the story, but from what I've heard he got a little help from some organization who had a lot of members in the city council. Next day the pipe was dug up, replaced, dirt put back on and new grass planted. My guess is that the Freemasons helped him but I don't know.

A year later, after all that work, my father died.

That's my flood story.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that Kerala's coast is facing west, away from the eaarthquake.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[upsidedown_duck]

what are your good flood stories?

Are there any good flood stories?

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[Anonymous Coward]

A year later, after all that work, my father died.

So, the moral of the story is, don't bother getting anything done because you're gonna die anyway?

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[ocularDeathRay]

good story. I thought you were gonna say the innertube failed though instead of that pipe.... in a sort of sewage water balloon explosion scene.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice story!

The rule of law is an illusion designed to make the weak think they play by the same rules as the strong.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[Naikrovek]

Nah. The moral of that sentence is that I miss my dad.

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[tgrigsby]

Da-yum. Your dad deserves a frikkin' statue, sainthood, or both. If the city was pumping sewage into my house, I'd probably show up with an Uzi.

Actually, I'd have sued all the way up the chain. Someone, somewhere, would have been on my side and told the city that it can't injure its citizens. IANAL, but surely imminent domain doesn't cover this, and Illinois doesn't actually allow cities to allow sewage into people's homes? That's just crazy!

Re:Very sad, .. still going on

[ralphclark]

Yes. A very pertinent comment.

This is Good News

[Mycroft_VIII]

Glad to here he's alright. Although someone who had said he was a neighbor (in another /. article on the tsunami) said Clarke's house was to far inland to be affected there was still a chance he had been spending the day at the beach or some such.
I'd really hate to see one of Great Authors taken by this disaster, not to diminish the loss of life that did occure.

Mycroft

Re:This is Good News

[Mycroft_VIII]

Learn maners and proper capitalization first. In the mean time I'll stick to my version of informal american. :)

Mycroft

Re:This is Good News

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn maners and proper capitalization first. In the mean time I'll stick to my version of informal american

Hello, kettle? This is the pot. You're black. "Manners," "meantime," "American," and from your other post, "hear," all right," "too far," "occur."

Yeesh.

Re:This is Good News

[LWATCDR]

It is natural to care more about someone that you can put a name with than someone you nothing about. One of the really positive sides to this that Mr Clarke is their and is well known. His fame might motivate just a little more help for this area. Frankly from what I have seen they can use all the help they can get.

Re:This is Good News

[stand]

Maybe this is hopelessly lame in light of how much life was lost, but I have to admit, the first time I heard about a tsunami hitting Sri Lanka, my first thought was, "I wonder if Arthur Clarke is ok?"

Re:This is Good News

[Tony Hoyle]

Me too...

10 seconds later I realized I couldn't remember if he was still alive to start with... :P

glad to know he's OK though.

Claaaaaaaaaarke!

[konmem]

Curses! Foiled again!!!

Re:Claaaaaaaaaarke!

[Anonymous Coward]

How can anyone mod this FUNNY in a time like this!? Fucking Americans...

Re:Claaaaaaaaaarke!

[TrekkieGod]

Maybe because it was funny.

Finding humor in tragic situations isn't necessarily being insensitive, you know. Humor is used to relieve tension. People often joke about mistakes they make, what they're afraid of, and about death.

If he were in the middle of the disaster area laughing at the survivors and how they lost all they had, well, I'd call him an insensitive bastard and knock some sense into him. As it is, the joke he made was humorous and I laughed even though I was saddened by what happened...that is, until I saw you being a dumbass and taking him seriously.

I'm surprised.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised so many people know who Arthur C. Clarke is. I've always found him to be rather obscure.

Re:I'm surprised.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, 2001, satellites, all pretty minor and inconsequential stuff.

Wow, it is a slow night?

[ZSpade]

Are they just scrounging for news now? If slashdot reported on the status of every prominate figure during natural disasters we would have a lot more to wade through (no pun or whatever intended).

Re:Wow, it is a slow night?

[klang]

If this had happened near the USA, it would have been both news and the end of the world, right?

The ten most active stories http://apple.slashdot.org/hof.shtml at the moment are:

Kerry Concedes Election To Bush
Strike on Iraq
Saddam Hussein Arrested
Fahrenheit 9/11 Discussion
What's Keeping You On Windows?
White House Lied About Iraq Nuclear Programs
An Unbiased Analysis of Gun Crime vs. Gun Control?
Windows 2000 & Windows NT 4 Source Code Leaks
Pledge of Allegiance Ruled Unconstitutional
Major Strike on Iraq Underway

All of which are concerned with disasters in one way or the other. It shows, that the slashdot readers are interested in this subject ;-)

Re:Wow, it is a slow night?

[Drakin]

Not really.

One of the threads in the original story was inquireing about Arthur C. Clarke's status.

This story awnsers that question, while it may have been more of a slashback story, none the less, it is somewhat relivant to people other than yourself.

Diving Gear

[MatthewNewberg]

First off, I would like to mention it is horrible everything that has happened in that Region of the world. On another note. So he mentions that he has lost his boat and diving gear. I wonder if he (personally)is into diving or just his crew is into diving. I know it isn't the most fitting thing to mention, but hey it would be pretty cool with Arthur C. Clark was into Scuba Diving.

Re:Diving Gear

[kubis]

http://www.clarkefoundation.org/arthurclarke/biogr aphy.html
Clarke first visited Colombo, Sri Lanka (then called Ceylon) in December 1954 and has lived there since 1956 pursuing an enthusiasm for underwater exploration along that coast and on the Great Barrier Reef. In recent years, he has been largely confined to a wheelchair due to post-polio syndrome, but his output as a writer has continued undiminished.

Re:Diving Gear

[Anonymous Coward]

Matt... seriously. Just go google a little. That's a little like saying you didn't know Pink Floyd were into having long hair. Faux pas aside, you've got some entertaining reads ahead. Enjoy.

Re:Diving Gear

[CortoMaltese]

Yup, he says he lost his boat and diving gear before mentioning that not all of his staff members are accounted for. Well, as said here before, I guess this is just how our brains work. First things first. People are just numbers.

Re:Diving Gear

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing what he is saying. He has what is sometimes called a 'delicate English manner', and if you are unfamiliar with it then you might well infer things as incorrectly as you have. He is no way setting human life below property. Be assured that it is quite the opposite, actually. The English do not beat their breasts about things in a Mediterranian fashion, but they do grieve deeply. To a foreign ear, it can be as subtle as haiku.

Re:Diving Gear

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it is interesting how most people don't understand why he would say that not all his staff is accounted for. In today's culture you are supposed to say something like. "It is such a terrible tragedy. All these poor native simple people have died. I feel for all their pain." or some other rubbish.

Re:Diving Gear

[Anonymous Coward]

So how much aid are the US and the EU going to contribute to recovering Arthur C. Clarke's gear?

Day after Tomorrow

[qualico]

"...nightmare reminiscent of The Day After Tomorrow. "

He watches bad movies?
(ya ya it has special effects)

Instead of all those tourists going back home, why don't they lend a hand?
Learn some culture, build everlasting friendships.

Hey if you need help rebuilding the boat house, I'm yours! :->

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[rokzy]

if they stay, that's more people who need food, water and shelter. all of which are in short supply.

and more people to catch disease and use up scarce medical supplies.

rebuilding will take years. it is not feasible for them to stay.

if you really want to help then forget about token gestures designed to make you feel good about yourself and just give them your money (directly through appeals or indirectly via foreign aid).

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[ovatto]

Just heard on the radio: at least some of the finnish tourists who are not injured (and thus are not among the first to leave) are helping out the locals in Thailand.

Wouldn't be surprised if others did too.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[LMariachi]

You have a point about the limited resources, but what kind of ass-backwards value system do you live in where putting a check in the mail is the very height of self-sacrificing altruism but helping people rebuild their houses is merely a token feel-good gesture?

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[WolfgangVonEstevez]

Besides, rich people need love too. Jackass.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[rokzy]

what fraction of the uninjured tourists there do you think are skilled builders, plumbers, electricians...?

what makes you think anything *you* can make could be considered a "home"? or should these people feel grateful for some shack you can put together with a bit of wood and nails?

you might make yourself feel better by doing something yourself, but true altruism is about giving and not getting anything back. in which case unless you're skilled at disaster relief the best thing you can do is donate money.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[deragon]

What else is there to do? Take a long chair and take a tan while others are still scrambling?

Some airlines have advanced the flights home so some tourists have no choice to leave soon. I suspect a few would have stayed and helped out if they could postponed their return flight. I know I would.

My only concern staying there is for myself to catch one of those nasty diseases caused by contaminated water. And the fact that I would be one more person consuming precious resources like water...

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[jacksonj04]

The difference is that writing a cheque can actually be done - the average citizen if dropped into that situation would only add to the problem because they have no experience. However, donating will help the aid organisation get what's needed, get it into the country, and use it.

On the other hand, humans have strange minds. Helping someone rebuild their house to make takes precedence over giving them money. Give me a shovel and fly me the hell in there.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[Ignorant Aardvark]

Giving you a shovel and sending you in there to rebuild is a misuse of resources. Lets say that it takes one week to rebuild an Indian seashore house. You could go over for a week and do itself, or continue going to your normal job and donate a week's worth of money, which will pay ten cheap laborers in India to rebuild a house. You are an American ... our society has put lots of energy into your education to get you the skills you have today. You can do a lot better for the affected people by using your talents to earn money which can be spent on laborers who can't do anything more productive since they don't have the education. It's like telling a quantum physicist he has to mop up his lab ... that simply doesn't happen, because his time is much more valuable than that of the janitor the lab inevitably employs.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[Anonymous Coward]

On CNN, they interviewed the head of some international aid organization, who said that above all they need people to send money. People send blankets and canned foods and things, but she said that it was money that could get people what they need the fastest.

Re:Day after Tomorrow

[jacksonj04]

British student actually, so my time is technically worthless since I'm not employed. Yet I've had experience in running rural/ad-hoc living conditions, so it could be worth flying me in there with my education on sanitation, first aid etc.

I'll leave choosing the best people for the job to the pros though, and just donate what I earn through freelance stuff.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Humorous, in a dark way

[elpapacito]

Curiously enough, in my first book on Sri Lanka, I had written about another tidal wave reaching the Galle harbour (see Chapter 8 in The Reefs of Taprobane, 1957). That happened in August 1883, following the eruption of Krakatoa in roughly the same part of the Indian Ocean.

Maybe some people should have remembered Krakatoa cataclism or just simply should have seen Clarke book. Damn, some people should just read to help prevent disasters.

I know it's dark humor, but what can I say ..the tide was predictable, nothing or very little was done. Ok not everybody could have been saved , but even one life was worth it, in my humble opinion.

Re:Humorous, in a dark way

[Moofie]

Right, because you can prevent tsunamis by reading books.

Eh?

Re:Humorous, in a dark way

[Anonymous Coward]

Prevent? No. Plan ahead for minimizing damage, establishing emergency communication, sourcing needed supplies, saving of life? Yes. But I wouldn't expect an illiterate like you to understand that concept. "Those who ignore history are doomed to re-live it..."

Re:Humorous, in a dark way

[Moofie]

Illiterate like me?

Wow. That's rich. Put your name on your comments if you want a further response, cowardly one.

Re:Humorous, in a dark way

[StikyPad]

I know it's dark humor, but what can I say ..the tide was predictable, nothing or very little was done. Ok not everybody could have been saved , but even one life was worth it, in my humble opinion.

What about the life of one person whose home and loved ones are torn from them, and has no desire to continue living? What about the life of a murderer?

Philosophical questions aside, it's easy to say something should have been done in hindsight, but more importantly, it's fruitless. The establishment of a warning system for the Indian Ocean is underway, so perhaps loss of life in the future won't be quite so catastrophic. That's the best we as people can do really -- learn from our mistakes, or the mistakes of others if we're lucky, and carry on.

WTF?

[weekendwarrior1980]

10s of thousands people are dead. This is non news to you ? Jerk.

Re:WTF?

[Drantin]

He was referring to the focus on one specific person.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe that his point is that the tsunami story wasn't posted by any moderator, but Clarke's account of its impact was.
Next will be the posting of William Shatner's opinion on the cultural implications of /.'s 2004 MN4 hysteria.

Re:Actually, Rama plummeted into the ocean

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do some people. like you, have a different font in their posts? Messed up charset?

Earth's Rotation

[the lawn wrangler]

I have seen on the AP wire that this quake was large enough to affect the earth's rotation. Could that possibly in turn affect the earth's magnetic field. I don't really know, I guess that I'm just asking for someone to explain exactly how the rotation has been affected, and what greater ramifications, if any, this entails. Additionally, I was wondering if ther was anyone who could explain what kind of early warning system for earthquakes and tsunamis is in place in the Pacific Ocean. There was evidently not one in place for the Indian Ocean which has magnified the scope of this disaster.

Re:Earth's Rotation

[Anonymous Coward]

in the pacific the UN countries have set up a system out of hawaii. what happens is seismometers (sp?) read every earthquake, if they are above ~6 then tidal tracking stations are alerted. the stations report any tsunamis to the Hawaiian coordination station which phones all the ocuntries possibly effected. In fact, while there are no stations in the indian ocean the stations did pick up this tsunami/the strong likelihood of one occurring and attempted to warn the countries, however the major handicap was that they did know who to contact and therefore never got a warning out to anyone who could od anything about it.

Re:Earth's Rotation

[Flaming Foobar]

I have seen on the AP wire that this quake was large enough to affect the earth's rotation. Could that possibly in turn affect the earth's magnetic field.

No, the disruption isn't big enough. The rotation sped up by a 10,000th of a second. It's hardly worth mentioning in the news. Earth's orbit changed, too, according to this article.

Re:Earth's Rotation

[PGillingwater]

I am no geologist, but I wonder too about the relationship here between Earth's magnetic field changes and the two recent high magnitude quakes. Yes I know that these quakes are linked to subduction zones of the major plates, but at the same time I am thinking about the rotation of earth's magnetic core. If there is a major flip of the field, can we assume it is purely associated with field changes, or might there be some physical turbulence at lower levels, which manifest as quakes.

How can we test this hypothesis? Simple. Do some comparitive measurements of magnetic field strength and direction at the two locations which experienced major quakes. I suspect there may be a correlation, and further predict major tremblors in the near future, linked to an acceleration of magentic field changes, especially ELF magnetic signals.

Re:Earth's Rotation

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got it backwards. A change in the Earth's makeup is not the result of changes in the magnetic field, it is the cause.

Re:Earth's Rotation

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know the math involved, but seeing as how in just recent memory we know of quakes on this scale of power, I don't think you have to worry too much. We have yet to have horrible changes in our climate. I think the earth is well set up to handle these kinds of shocks, probably like a pendulum. but how knows, maybe I can tell my kids I saw the beginning of the end of hte world ;-)

Re:Earth's Rotation

[Anonymous Coward]

Paul Gillingwater
BA, BSc, MBA, RHCE, CISM, CISSP, CEO

You forgot one: STUPID

Clearly you are no geologist...but you watched a movie about it last night!

wikipedia as a news source

[pamri]

Wikipedia has two articles churning out information about things as they happen besides info about the disaster that have already happened and they contain plenty of links to other news sources. See, 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake in India

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Saeger]

There were reports of 60ft tall waves rolling 1km inland, yet all I've seen online or on CNN is some flooding and some wimpy waves hitting the shore. Is there still NO footage of the supposed monster tsunami waves? Not to be "insensitive" to the loss of life or anything, but I can't believe all the cameras and camcorders got washed away.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Troed]

here

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense but 60ft+ waves do a good job of washing away things(including the people taking the pictures). Now wimpy waves, that's a CNN exclusive.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Anonymous Coward]

Im sure the 60feet is exagerated. The tsunami was not a hollywood special effect.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Saeger]

Yeah - I saw that ealier, and it's nowhere near 60ft, especially after it hit shore.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[CaptainCheese]

you've clearly don't know what your talking about.

Go ask a someone who's been withing 100 miles of the coastline.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Jugalator]

The day after it had happened, I only heard news of 7 m (22 ft) waves. Sounds more reasonable, and better matching that video too. Also, I can imagine areas being hit differently, that video may not necessarily show a beach among the worst hit.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Naikrovek]

well there's this thing that happens when a 60ft wave comes along: self-preservation.

if i were holding a camera when i saw a wave like that, i would drop it and run, screw the damn picture.

Re:wikipedia as a news source

[Tony Hoyle]

If you're filming a 60ft wave at 500mph you're probably not going to be around long enough to sell your story.

At that speed it'd be like being hit by a wall of concrete.

Re:You won't read anything about it...

[Anonymous Coward]

DG is fine, asshole.

bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[circletimessquare]

fyi: bbc radio is reading angry messages from listeners directed at the noaa and the usgs

the criticisms are that all you had to do was pick up the phone and call cnn: 3 hours before it hit indian coastline, something could have been done to save lives

the indian ocean has no warning system like the pacific does in place, and no one knew the extent of the wave, and even if someone had acted like the world was ending, calling everyone in the world, the fact that nothing like this has ever happened before in the indian ocean in a few centuries would mean that the bureaucracy in india, sri lanka, etc., and the media, would have moved slowly... and even if the local authorities had somehow miraculously gotten megaphones on the beach in time, you can be certain people there would have just yawned them away...

additionally, unlike in japan and the philippines, for example, the people in the indian ocean do not know to head for high ground if they feel an earthquake... this is simple education that would have saved thousands of lives

but there is no experience with tsunamis on the south side of sumatra, for example, so for the people there, where a warning system would have made no difference, simply feeling the ground shake would be all the warning that was needed to get the heck to high ground asap

so, given the anger and grief and role hindsight plays in how people judge how their reactions would have been different, and you can see a shit storm of blame and finger pointing coming: "americans don't care if we drown"

just like the tsunami, here comes a massive wave of political shitstorms

it is most important to remember that thousands died needlessly in this event had their been a system of warning buoys in place in the indian ocean like in the pacific, and the onus is on the governemnts in the indian ocean to have done that, but considering the fashionable anti-americanism in the world right now, you can easily see how this tragedy can be spun for political ends

political tsunami warning system activated

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[nathanh]

so, given the anger and grief and role hindsight plays in how people judge how their reactions would have been different, and you can see a shit storm of blame and finger pointing coming: "americans don't care if we drown"

it is most important to remember that thousands died needlessly in this event had their been a system of warning buoys in place in the indian ocean like in the pacific, and the onus is on the governemnts in the indian ocean to have done that, but considering the fashionable anti-americanism in the world right now, you can easily see how this tragedy can be spun for political ends

I can't believe it. 10s of 1000s of people are dead and all you're concerned about is how the USA will be perceived.

If you've ever wondered why the rest of the world hates Americans, it's because of people like you.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[mikeb39]

and even if the local authorities had somehow miraculously gotten megaphones on the beach in time, you can be certain people there would have just yawned them away...

I'm kind of interested in where you got your information about people not leaving a beach when they are warned by megaphone about a tsunami, because I know for sure I'd run like hell at that warning, as would pretty well everyone I know.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Troed]

fashionable anti-americanism in the world right now

I think the saying goes; "He who makes his bed must also lie in it".

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

Stuff it body. If you want to help so much I'm sure someone will be generous to pay for you a plane ticket to go over there and help.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Black Parrot]

> you can see a shit storm of blame and finger pointing coming: "americans don't care if we drown"

Gee, how could the people of third world nations possibly come to that conclusion?

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

US/Japan etc has systems in place. I'm sure that
if any major news network broadcast a tsunami warning
significant amount of live would be saved.

A lot of people who was affected has access to cable TV, so even if the just CNN and BBC broadcast a warning on their weather, we could have some lives.

If US/Japan knew that there would be a tsunami, it is irresponsible for them to keep it to themselves and let the people drown.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[miu]

I can't believe it. 10s of 1000s of people are dead and all you're concerned about is how the USA will be perceived.

I doubt the fellow believes that the way in which the world perceives the US response to the tragedy is the most important thing, only a real scumbag could be cold enough to think like that. But world opinion regarding the US is important enough to be worth considering, events of the last decade have really brought home the knowledge that hostility and negative public opinion can be manipulated to create terrorism and justify brutality - being aware of that and trying to head off some of the vitriol is probably a good idea.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[nathanh]

I doubt the fellow believes that the way in which the world perceives the US response to the tragedy is the most important thing, only a real scumbag could be cold enough to think like that.

This is circletimessquare we're talking about. He is cold enough to think like that. Go read some of his nonsense over on Kuro5hin.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[PerlDudeXL]

its not that easy...

a) the indian-ocean area has no tsunami warning system

b) the people in control of the system in the pacific area tried to sent out warnings. but without a clear recipient thats a little tricky.

c) you need a working warning system -> needs money. the area is poor.

d) you need a working civil defense

e) you need to know how to conduct evacuations.

(based on the stuff the correspondent said on TV here yesterday evening)

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[kalidasa]

What makes you think they didn't try? Even if GWB got on the phone and called the heads of government of all the countries likely to be affected, without an emergency response system, by the time the news filtered down to the people who could do something about it, it would have been too late.

Anyone who blames the US for this is simply looking for excuses to blame the US for everything.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[EvilTwinSkippy]

The fact that these soveriegn countries lack an emergency response system is America's fault, or course. After all the USGS CAUSED the Earthquake in the first place.

(Sarcasm, by the way, for the black humor impaired.)

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if GWB got on the phone and called the heads of government of all the countries likely to be affected, without an emergency response system, by the time the news filtered down to the people who could do something about it, it would have been too late.

Come on man! don't be naive. A red scrolling bar on CNN or BBC would have saved lives. We know that the governments are not the most efficient ways of doing this. Anybody sufficiently powerful alerting news media would have helped.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

hell, I'm an american, and yeah, its sad 20 some thousand people died, but it happens. I didn't know these people so no real emotional trauma and maybe we should all just accept the fact that lots of people die every day. I'm not gonna baul my eyes out over this or anyone of these tragic deaths. More important to me is the after effects and how they will change my life(if any). These are the important things to me. If this entails the US shouldering a warning system because countries in that region can't get their act together, that is important to me.

and the rest of the world may use this as an excuse to blame america, but they do the same things. Its called being human. The rest of the world doesn't hate americans because we might care a bit more for our own condition than someone elses, its how the world works. Those people act the same way, think the same way, and pretty much try to run their lives the same way.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[ashwinds]

All I have to say is this: http://www.ntnews.news.com.au/common/story_page/0, 7034,11797550%255E1702,00.html It is shocking that we had the means to get to know about this - but we do not know whom to call. Nations must setup crisis bodies which can talk to one another.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[HeghmoH]

Anyone who blames the US for this is simply looking for excuses to blame the US for everything.

Events like this can make for good filters. If anybody actually seriously tries to put any blame on the US for any part of this disaster, you can safely ignore anything they say about almost anything.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[CaptainCheese]

This is properly a "tough luck" situation. The planet shrugged, and some people fell off.

If it had happened to California, thousands would have died too, regardless of the USGS. In that situation, I doubt the most citizens of Sri Lanka or other other countries would have given a damn about the loss of life. They would only have been mildly interested for the entertainment value.

Most of us don't care if anyone that they don't know dies. Humanity does not currently have a dangerously low breeding population, so no problem.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[kalidasa]

Come on man! don't be naive. A red scrolling bar on CNN or BBC would have saved lives. We know that the governments are not the most efficient ways of doing this. Anybody sufficiently powerful alerting news media would have helped.

The lives of some of the tourists, maybe. Other than that, how many lives do you think would have been saved in fishing villages where most folks don't have a TV, and have learned to distrust much of what CNN has to say in the first place? You need to have the message go to people on the ground who are able to implement an existing emergency management plan (in this case, an evacuation plan), or the best you can hope for is panic in the streets.

The solution to problems like these is for governments to have Emergency Management Agencies, and for there to be coordination of the various EMAs so they can communicate with one another in times of crisis. Imagine if the folks at USGS and NOAA could have just picked up a phone, called the FEMA contact person for international emergencies, and he could have just turned to the phone banks and called his opposite numbers in Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, the Maldives, etc. That might have been effective.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[danielobvt]

I don't wonder because I simply don't care anymore. It's stuff like this that (where somehow the US is being blamed for frickin natural disaster deaths (where our governmental agencies tried to warn people)) makes me not care because some of you are lost causes. Apparently the US can do no right in pretty much anything we do (we are in the classic Catch 22 scenario, there seems to be no action that we can take on anything that will earn us anything but blame.).

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Snarfangel]

The important thing to remember is that playing the victim has never solved anyone's problems. If the people in the affected area place the blame on the U.S. rather than their own governments, the problem of early warning for tsunamis and other natural disasters won't be solved, because the problem won't be correctly diagnosed.

Second, the problem of how America is perceived in the area is obviously minor compared to the scope of this disaster, but it's counterproductive to blame someone for something in one breath and then demand help in the next. Treat Americans as friends, and as friends they will help you. Treat them as enemies, and any sympathy will be leached away.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[TheSync]

I have a suggestion for government officials of countries with a shoreline - watch USGS Earthquake Hazards web site. When you see a quake that is over Magnitude 6.5 in your ocean basin, consider a possible tsunami threat.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

This post just upset me so much. I have been reading news papers online from all over the world, crying. I know no-one who have died. I know no-one who were there.

I currently live in the US, however I am not a citizen. I remember a few years back about land slides in California, forrest fires in California, it was big news in my home country. I cared as much then as I do now.

Don't make assumptions about the peoples feelings, just because you may not feel that badly about it. Most of the people I know they care. If you don't care, maybe you should take a long and hard look at yourself and do something about it. The world will not be a better place until we start caring.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got to figure the people who blame the US for not "DOING SOMETHING" or leaving detection responsability with the local governments are probably the same people who get all bent outta shape about USA acting like "the world police".

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to help so much I'm sure someone will be generous to pay for you a plane ticket to go over there and help.

Are you kidding, there's no way I would pay for that jerk to go there and feel good about himself. He'd probably just get in the way of any rebuilding effort.

Better to send your money right to the people that need it.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

It's stuff like this that (where somehow the US is being blamed for frickin natural disaster deaths

NO ONE is blaming the US for the Deaths. Some people who are very upset are asking if more could have been done. This happens every time there is a tragic incident. After 9-11, lots of people were asking "what more could they have done to prevent this". Where these people 'blaming' America?

Apparently the US can do no right in pretty much anything we do (we are in the classic Catch 22 scenario, there seems to be no action that we can take on anything that will earn us anything but blame

OK, I'm biting. Notice how when our actions do not involve military force, they tend to be welcomed. When we send food to starving people, they like it. When we send in people to build infrastucture in 3rd world countries, they like it. When we drop bombs on their cities and/or occupy their countries, they don't like it.
Is that really so hard to understand?

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[skink1100]

> If it had happened to California, thousands would have died too, regardless of the USGS.

I disagree; the tsunami warning system in the Pacific and the well-trained and organized beach patrol here would save all but a few yahoo surfers out to "ride the big one". Nothing against surfers, mind you.

S

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[justins]

fyi: bbc radio is reading angry messages from listeners directed at the noaa and the usgs

the criticisms are that all you had to do was pick up the phone and call cnn: 3 hours before it hit indian coastline, something could have been done to save lives

USGS people were on the radio yesterday saying tha they were working the phones after the earthquake and it didn't do a hell of a lot of good. It's lovely the way everyone wants to blame everything (natural disasters, even!) on the US.

Give it a rest, people.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[woodlander]

I can see no evidence that "all you're concerned about is how the USA will be perceived". The sad reality is that the same kind of people who make such charges (i.e. you) later claim they are true because no one disputed them. Maybe a desire for truth is just an American thing though.

Re:bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[Anonymous Coward]

What is your evidence that the ONLY thing he cares about is how the US is perceived? Are we only allowed to discuss the fact that people are dead and it's a tragedy? Just because he posts about people blasting a US agency doesn't mean that it's the only thing on his mind.

Additionally, I fail to see how an American talking about America is cause for the rest of the world to hate Americans.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[BrianH]

Lol, do you really believe that we could evacuate the entire shoreline of California, Alaska, Washington, and Oregon in a few hours? None of our west coast cities has the law enforcement required to handle an evacuation on that scale. At the most they'd empty the beaches and alert the buildings immediately facing the beach before running for higher ground themselves. If you lived a block in and were sleeping, you'd be screwed.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[CaptainCheese]

This post just upset me so much.

I apologise if it has, but I stand by my somewhat cynical statement.

Re: bbc radio is broadcasting angry missives

[NeoSkandranon]

You are in the minority. Sorry. There's a difference between "caring" and having an emotional outburst (not to put down your feelings, thats the only way i know to say it) and most people don't do the latter, when confronting with the death(s) of unknowns

It's a joke!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a reference to a movie that you obviously don't remember.

Repeat the phrase, "My God, it's full of stars" over and over until it comes to you.

Re:Thank God.

[kngthdn]

Tens of thousands dead, hundreds of thousands of dollars in damnages to people who can't afford a meal a day? And you say that's wonderful?

You *SICK* bastard.

Good gosh, you can't be serious, can you? It was a reference to Arthur Clarke's greatest movie ever, which you obviously never watched.

And besides, what I meant is that I'm glad he's okay.

Re:Actually, Rama plummeted into the ocean

[glassjaw rocks]

Oh, I set my preferences to make the default message format "Code". It means I'm lazy and like hitting the enter key instead of typing <P>.

Estimates of the dead

[digitalchinky]

Having some pretty good knowledge of Indonesia and its surrounds (From DSD) I suspect Indonesia is downplaying the 'real' number of fatalities. That part of the world is "HUGELY" populated, Java has a couple of hundred million - it's not exactly a huge country - While Ache is not 'as' populated, overhead shows some massive coastal devistation. (Overhead being satellite imagery - black and white (optical) / infra red / radar)

There are no words to say how horrible it is.

Re:Estimates of the dead

[MasterOfUniverse]

Actually this is true for most of Asia. As a general rule in Asia and India,

Actual numbers = Government figures * 1.75 (even this is a conservative estimate in my opinion).

Re:Estimates of the dead

[revscat]

While Ache is not 'as' populated, overhead shows some massive coastal devistation. (Overhead being satellite imagery - black and white (optical) / infra red / radar)

NPR reported this morning that the governor of Ache was estimating as many as 20,000 dead in that province *alone*.

Re:Estimates of the dead

[Anonymous Coward]

'real'..."HUGELY"...'as'...

Your mindless misuse of quotation marks is "ANNOYING" as hell.

Re:You won't read anything about it...

[gibbsjoh]

Damn.. I was also hoping it was gone... poetic justice in its best form!

You're full of it

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure if warning systems were in placed it could have helped lower the death toll, but there is no way to prevent deaths altogether in this situation

Thousands of lives could have been saved if there was a warning system in place, yet hours after the earthquake hit there were still people out on shorelines, vulnerable to the coming tsunami crashing ashore.

Humans are a virus...

[Spy Handler]

j/k

Human death is always unfortunate, and tens of thousands dying is a major tragedy indeed. But there are so many people now, living on just about every habitable patch of ground on earth, that any kind of a natural disaster happening anywhere in the world kills massive numbers.

The thing is, vast majority of humans today still live in impoverished, technologically backward societies. 6 billion is too many people for a primitve infrastructure to handle.

Actually Earth can easily handle hundreds of billions, but we would need advanced technology like the Puppeteers. And not just advanced technology, but also advanced cultural and societal organization far ahead of what we have today... plus a fundamental change in how people think and behave. Now we can't just suddenly become a herbivorous herd society like the Puppeteers, but we can be nicer to others and try not to be such assholes.

Solution to earthquakes, tsunamis and other natural disasters lie in advanced technolgy. Fleet of Worlds!

Re:Humans are a virus...

[Malawar]

yeah, but c'mon, they had five planets, some dedicated to food/etc. Plus, their women were brainless (literally).. and they had three legs.. two mouths that they used as hands attached to their eye stalks.. bleh.. Worst alien race ever.

Re:Humans are a virus...

[Anonymous Coward]

But there are so many people now, living on just about every habitable patch of ground on earth, that any kind of a natural disaster happening anywhere in the world kills massive numbers.

It blows my mind that they are teaching this drivel in Highschool and College. What the hell are they telling you??? The planet's population is not anywhere near what you are trying to say. it is clustered in city and town sized clumps. Hell even in China and India there are areas where you can go for miles without seeing another human.

There are even wilderness areas in Japan, that tiny speck of land that is the most densly populated area on this planet making India and China respectively look like uninhabited wastelands.

please get a clue, you know nothing about the world and I strongly suggest you learn from someone that actually knows or at least travel this planet so you can see for yourself.

Re:Humans are a virus...

[Anonymous Coward]

"And not just advanced technology, but also advanced cultural and societal organization far ahead of what we have today... plus a fundamental change in how people think and behave."

Such changes are taking place, if slowly.

I was reading about Napoleon during my time off for Christmas (new book, gift). Do you know how the most civilized people on the earth would have dealt with Iraq (and don't think anyone else would have behaved any differently)? They would have gone in to where the uprisings were, looted everything of value, killed anyone who made a fuss, and then left the area to experience disease and famine during the winter. Then come back next summer and see if those who survived still wanted to make a rucus, repeating the process if they did. In our more fucked up nations TODAY this sort of thing still passes for 'government'.

At the time, that was how you dealt with insurrections. People said "War is hell" and got on with it. Through history war involved killing a bunch of people and neither side could really afford to care who got it. We know so little about nation building today because it's a relatively new concept. We can look back on it now and see how bad it was, but it's a cultural thing. Greeks were cool with homosexuality, ancient people figured slavery was just how it was, etc. etc. It was a cultural thing. Back in the day if a nation had enemies, they went and found 'em and fucked 'em up if they could. What else would you do with enemies? Answer with today's sensibilites if you want, but those answers weren't available to the mindset of the day.

Today, citizens of the USA become upset when they hear about Abu Garabe (sp?). The US army tries (not always successfully) not to kill civilians. The government wants to win "hearts and minds". Is the US doing a good job? Maybe not. But the fact that Iraqis get pissed off and can even express it indicates how far we've come. Today we can say "What else do you do with enemies? You help them to understand that we can all live together peacfully and profitably, which can never happen if we keep killing each other."

The USA wants money. In order to get money the USA needs other places to be able to field an economy. The USA wants every nation to be stable and generate wealth to send to the USA. This may not be a fair situation, but a "stable and generating wealth" is a big improvement for lots of places.

Enlightenment comes slowly. Humanity is moving toward it as best it can. There is reason for optimism.

Re:Humans are a virus...

[Anonymous Coward]

Today, citizens of the USA become upset when they hear about Abu Garabe (sp?). The US army tries (not always successfully) not to kill civilians. The government wants to win "hearts and minds".

This is pure bullshit. What do you think the soldiers are there for? To kill people, of course!

the US is patently NOT interested in winning hearts and minds. there are soldiers there who kill and torture for kicks.

And you are trying to trivialize this torture and killing. Where on earth do you get these strange ideas? America went into Iraq to destroy WMD, not to "bring democracy". That's just an excuse after they found no WMD.

The USA wants money. In order to get money the USA needs other places to be able to field an economy. The USA wants every nation to be stable and generate wealth to send to the USA. T

Fuck the USA. The rest of the world does not exist to be exploited by fat Americans. Why can't you just look after your own problems, instead of creating more for everybody else?

You obviously believe whatever propaganda the government puts in front of you, and won't bother looking for facts if you have a nice PR story that makes Americans sound noble.

Terrible tragedy

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not only the death toll.

This tragedy affects the life of millions of people.
I was in Sri Lanka two weeks ago and I got to
know a few inhabitants there, who are living from
tourism.

They now have to go back to fishing again (I'm not joking) until the tourists are coming back
(hopefully next year).

Worry is not over

[tanveer1979]

The death toll here in india is mounting with over 4000 dead in the far flung andaman and nicobar islands and 13000 still missing. An air force base with 100 officers, their families has vanished into the sea. Due to the earthquake the indian techtonic plate has sunk 30 meters deeper. Scientists say its the biggest displacement of the plate ever recorded and it may result in new volcanos forming in near future as well as similar or larger earthquakes.

Moreover this region is not linked to the pacific ocean tsunami network. There are no bouys here. Now the Indian Govt is planning to place deep sea sensors as well as tsunami detection system. This data will be linked with pacific ocean tsunami network.

Re:Worry is not over

[adeydas]

why does the indian government come up with ideas after the tragedy has struck?!

Re:Worry is not over

[tanveer1979]

This region has never been hit by such a disaster for more than hundred years. Its like london preparing for tornados

Re: Worry is not over

[Black Parrot]

> why does the indian government come up with ideas after the tragedy has struck?!

That's just the way our species handles things... Tacoma Narrows bridge. Safety glass in automobiles. Building codes. Galveston seawall. The list goes on and on.

Re:Worry is not over

[pe1chl]

>Moreover this region is not linked to the pacific ocean tsunami network. There are no bouys here.

Why do you need a tsunami detection system when an earthquake detection system is already in place?
What you would have needed is an alarm system, something that can be used to quickly alert people along the coast. A common contact number or e-mail address where a warning could be sent that all local radio stations will broadcast, for example.

It was wellknown to all seismic centres around the world that the quake had happened, but they had no way to warn people to stay off the shores. A system with detection bouys would not have helped, it was *known* that this would happen.
(apparently even the news that Thailand was hit was still no reason to try to more actively warn India and Africa)

Re:Worry is not over

[Anonymous Coward]

And it will probably be another 100 years before they are hit again ... so the whole thing is probably a waste of money which could be used to help the Indian people in more meaningful ways.

Re:Worry is not over

[TheLink]

Not all the preparation required is that specialized. You could have a team in charge of handling/anticipating natural disasters. And then establish formal channels and methods of broadcasting warnings to the population. The bulk of these systems and procedures can be useful for other scenarios.

Just monitoring seismic info on the Internet, and then notifying the population would have saved lots of lives. Given the latency (1 hour) - some countries still would have had 1 hour plus warning, which would still have been very useful.

These sort of things are what Governments can be useful for.

Re: Worry is not over

[Captain Nitpick]

That's just the way our species handles things... Tacoma Narrows bridge. Safety glass in automobiles. Building codes. Galveston seawall. The list goes on and on.

The really terrible thing about the Galveston seawall is that a large minority of the residents wanted one. It was in large part because the local Weather Bureau forecaster (Isaac Cline) said it could never happen that it didn't get built.

Re:Worry is not over

[Captain Nitpick]

Why do you need a tsunami detection system when an earthquake detection system is already in place?

Because most earthquakes don't cause tsunami.

Re:Worry is not over

[J. Random Luser]

Reports I have read say total movement of the Indian plate was 30 metres, being ~10 metres vertical plus ~27 metres north-north-east. The Indian plate "dropping" 10 metres would in simplistic terms leave a 10 metre vertical wall of water facing westwards. Given the continual activity of the Andaman fault subduction zone I find it surprising there is no historic tradition of tsunami along the east coast of India.

character assassination

[circletimessquare]

you say of me that "all you're concerned about is how the USA will be perceived"

where did you miss me say "it is most important to remember that thousands died needlessly" in my original post?

Re:character assassination

[Anonymous Coward]

you say of me that "all you're concerned about is how the USA will be perceived"

Maybe he has read your postings on kuroshin? It's quite clear you spin this thing into yet another whining about the unfair perceivement of America The Beautiful in the world. Fuck you.

Re:character assassination

[revscat]

where did you miss me say "it is most important to remember that thousands died needlessly" in my original post?

But that wasn't the topic of your post. The topic of your post will be "this is going to make America look bad." You're perfectly and rightfully free to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you're not a complete and utter bastard.

Re:character assassination

[manifoldronin]

But that wasn't the topic of your post. The topic of your post will be "this is going to make America look bad." You're perfectly and rightfully free to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you're not a complete and utter bastard.

Absolutely! The OP should have used a topic like "For all the 10s of 1000s of people died my condolence please. I also feel bad for those people wounded, all the property lost, and all the hardship required to rebuild. Furthermore I'd like to issue a carte blanche statement that I feel sad about anything happening in this world perceived as sad by anybody else. With all that being said, now I'd like to express a little concern over this making the US look bad".

Re:character assassination

[Moofie]

Nonsense. The poster was simply observing that, like with everything else that happens on this planet, it is clearly America's fault.

That was not the topic of the post, simply an aside. Gosh, I'm a dumb ol' American, and I have better reading comprehension skills than some people around here...

that's a very good saying

[circletimessquare]

it would be an even more useful saying if you had directed it at those who blame the usa 100% for everything bad that happens, even the things it has no control over or only shares partial accountability for

Re:that's a very good saying

[Troed]

It was directed at you, since you seem to think there's "fashion" to anti-USA feelings all over the world. As a European I can assure you that the reasons we're out in numbers protesting against the crimes being committed by your regime have nothing to do with "fashion" - and everything to do with your blatant disregards for (non-american) human lives and rights.

What's even more amazing is the sheer number of americans who still think you are "the land of the free".

South Asian Bloggers unite for Tsunami Help Blog

[sanspeak]

Some south asian bloggers have created a blog tsunamihelp.blogspot.com blogging about the latest news and information about the tsunami, agencies suppoting the victims and involved in relief, places where donations can be made, volunteering information and much more.

so what: death toll is ONE FIFTH of Iraq war

[Anonymous Coward]

oh look, we're all terribly sad about thefact that 25,000 people have died in a natural disaster, while the americans have kiled over 100,000 people by DELIBERATELY bombing them.

Re:so what: death toll is ONE FIFTH of Iraq war

[Anonymous Coward]

where do you live? we need to sed some planes to your country too...

Re:so what: death toll is ONE FIFTH of Iraq war

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, if you don't mind, would you please go fuck yourself? We get a little cranky when people deliberately kill some of our fellows. Just an old habit, nothing personal.

Re:so what: death toll is ONE FIFTH of Iraq war

[Cigarra]

Oh yeah? And why did you bomb the ones that DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU?

Re:so what: death toll is ONE FIFTH of Iraq war

[Anonymous Coward]

Gotta keep the war going. Its so much easier for Al quaeda to recruit the surviving family members. The war machine has had big problems since the red army collapsed, but business is back on track.
Wait for the american inquisition or act now.

Oh, please

[el-spectre]

This wasn't an attack, it was an unstoppable and unpredictable event. Yes, it's sad. No, it's not an ongoing threat nor can we do anything about it (except send food and hope for the best)

So far as I can see (and I live in CA, Earthquake country), the media is covering this quite a bit... But it's not incredibly important to someone on the other side of the world.

Incidently, several thousand people starved to death today, more died in accidents, civil wars and from disease. Why no outrage over the poor media coverage for these?

i'll concede your point

[circletimessquare]

that some would flee, if you concede that:

1. there are people in this world who distrust authority ("they just me to leave because they want to steal my stuff... what a joke! a tsunami? where did they make that up!")

2. or prioritize or judge things badly ("ok, i'll leave, just as soon as i find my all of my pets... they say this tsunami thing is a wave in the middle of the ocean, and i've seen waves, they don't travel very fast")

3. or have mob-driven behavior ("why all the fuss? i don't see anyone panicking, and there some people over there laughing and making jokes... i never heard of this tsunami thing before, it sounds like a joke to me, everyone is relaxing, so will i")

4. or cry wolf

etc., etc., etc.

Re:i'll concede your point

[Yaztromo]

...or:

5. Flee to the wrong place. Like an upper story in a house (which doesn't do you much good when the floor below you washes completely out and the roof collaspes on top of you). Or into a car. Or some other place where you think you'll be safe, but which is just going to wind up being your tomb.

Yaz.

Re:i'll concede your point

[Nerull]

This becomes a major problem in areas with lots of warnings. The costal areas are evacuated, lots of money is lost, and then a 8 inch wave washes up the beach, almost indistigusable from normal waves.

People start to ignore them, so when something like this happens again, they ignore it too, a possibly fatal mistake.

Re:The worst hit

[cocotoni]

Sorry to disagree with you, but worst hit would be the natives that will stay there to face all the conseqences of the disaster, people that have lost everything they had, people that have lost their loved ones.

Sorry, but I got really pissed today watching the news and seeing a tourist comming back from Phuket complaining that they (he and his wife) lost everything they took on their holidays. What have you lost, little men? Two suitcases of clothes and a digital camera??? Look around you, little men, and see all those people that had little and now have nothing, look at the corpses floating and mothers mourning for their children. Then go on complaining about your digital camera little men. I won't cry for you.

Re:You won't read anything about it...

[Morlark]

I still hope that it will soon be gone. Not through some horrible disaster, because that's not a very nice thing to wish on anybody, but through continued political pressure. The military base on Diego Garcia was made possible by the forced removal of the local population. And for what? To make it easier to bomb people. The continued existence of the military base at Diego Garcia really makes me wonder at what humanity can inflict upon itself.

Re:The worst hit

[medraut]

I find that statement a little left of center. The worst hit will be the tourists? Hell no. The worst hit will be the hundreds of thousands of poor people whose livelihoods have been destroyed/changed forever. Not mention the fact that 1/3 of the dead are children.

Yes many tourists have lost their lives, but many of those who have not will be able to get back on the plane and go home to their easy lives back in suburbia. The citizens in the likes of Sri Lanka, Thailand etc have no way of escaping this nightmare.

*shrug* Maybe Im just being overly sensitive.
Medraut

that is exactly what i am talking about

[circletimessquare]

thank you for illustrating how prejudice works

Wrong about our responsibility ...

[bob in ny]

I believe that the network of floating bouys and underwater sensors in the Pacific Ocean is run and operated by NOAA and the USGS. The fact is that most of the world is instrumented by our weather service and the Geological Survey, with reports fed by satellite to various centers for analysis. Hurricane forecasts in the Atlantic, the Caribbean, and the Pacific have all benefitted from this network. It is totally wrong to say that the financial and technological burden of instrumenting what was well known as the absolute hot spot on the earth's crust belonged to "governments in the indian ocean". We (this country) do these things in the interest of science and humanity. Those who observe that the US did nothing to mitigate the loss of life in this instance really have only to look at our government's annual budgets to see that their arguments are quite correct. Our leadership would rather kill Iraqi's than contribute to a scientific understanding of global environmental processes that benefit humanity.

Re:Wrong about our responsibility ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The interesting thing about this is that the BBC reported that NOAA tried to contact people in the Thailand and Indonesian governments. They could not get through to any official who could take action.

It will never be the same

[AnuradhaRatnaweera]

We spent most of yesterday trying to contact relatives and friends to make sure they are okey. Now we are keeping an eye on this page for new potential earthquakes.

We used to enjoy walking and relaxing on those beaches regularly. I don't think we will ever be able to do that again in a free state of mind. :-(

Re:It will never be the same

[Anonymous Coward]

We used to enjoy walking and relaxing on those beaches regularly. I don't think we will ever be able to do that again in a free state of mind.

Because of legitimate fear of it happening again (incredibly unlikely)? Or because of the sad memories it brings (legitimate, but this will fade if you allow or want it to).

erm...

[circletimessquare]

if i call cnn right now and say "i work at nasa! there's an asteroid headed towards alberta! you have 2 hours to warn people!" exactly what in your mind is going to happen at that point?

the onus is on the governments of the indian ocean for not setting up a system for these warnings to be effective

if every scientist at the noaa and the usgs called everyone they could think of and screamed bloody murder, and in fact, it is my understanding a lot of them did, their armageddon-level predictions would fall on deaf ears

Re:erm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you have knowlegde on what you speak.

There are systems and procedures in place for such incidents in US and Japan and it does not involve a random engineer calling CNN.

Re:erm...

[Anonymous Coward]

i think you guys are all neglecting the fact that unlike the first world countries, these affected areas are poor.

sure, ideally everyone should have a pre warning system in place. some just can't afford it.

i'm not gonna say the scientists didnt make an effort. But still, i'm pretty sure better communication should have been possible.

Re:erm...

[thisgooroo]

the onus is on the governments of the indian ocean for not setting up a system for these warnings to be effective

first, the indian ocean doesn't have any governments. there are a couple of governments in countries bordering on it and on some islands in it.

more important, why should they have done so? tsunamis are an extremely rare event there (the last one i lnow of was in 1883). the tsunami warning system in the pacific has been set up because they occur there relatively frequently. and i haven't heard anything about your US government setting up somehing similar for the east coast (probably together with other governments to cover the atlantic), simply because it is about as infrequent there as in the indian ocean (last tsunami killed 60000 in 1755)

tsunami Video

[nodnarb1978]

Video here high bandwidth server, no worries. 4 different videos. Amazing footage.

Re:tsunami Video

[AnuradhaRatnaweera]

More videos are here. One is 9 MB and the other is 105 MB!.

Re:tsunami Video

[nodnarb1978]

Gutsy, hosting a 105MB video for Slashdot....I was tempted to mirror it, but why sneer in the face of the bandwidth gods?

Re:tsunami Video

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm getting a reasonable 200kb/s...

yet I just previewed the beginning: it's just a BBC World Newscast. I've seen the same footage elsewhere several times.

that's funny

[circletimessquare]

american lives are being lost right now so that nonamericans can live in a land of political freedom someday

it is interesting that you speak of human lives and rights, and you can protest american actions that are actually promoting such a thing, while you fall so very silent on what is happening in the sudan for example

your conscience seems to have an unhealthy obsession with america, no?

is the usa the center of the world?

i don't think so, but you apparently do

Re:that's funny

[Troed]

If you think you're doing anything to help democracy in Afghanistan or Iraq you need to listen to non-american biased media for a while. You've _totally_ f*cked Afghanistan up, and Iraq will soon be an Iranian enclave (which is the very reason Bush Sr did NOT remove Saddam from power) if things continue on the path they're now.

Regarding Sudan - read the latest item on my site. See sig. You might want to do basic fact-checking before writing next time.

Re:that's funny

[Anonymous Coward]

american lives are being lost right now so that nonamericans can live in a land of political freedom someday

You've been watching to many Disney movies. Those lives aren't lost so that nonamericans can live in a land of political freedom but simply to protect the interests of the USA.

Do you realy think the US government wants true political freedom in Iraq if that means that Iraq will become another fundamentalist Islamic state like Iran?

Re:that's funny

[Anonymous Coward]

You've _totally_ f*cked Afghanistan up

To be fair, it's been fucked up for a while now. Not that bombing civillians (under the pretense of getting bin Laden, who remains at large) was much help, but it was already broken before we got there thanks to the Soviet Union.

the us and japan

[circletimessquare]

are not in the indian ocean

so any warning for what would have happened would have to haveinvolved a call to cnn, because the systems and procedures you speak of don't exist where the tsunami happened

Re:the us and japan

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll grant you one thing, it is an unprecendented event in the indian ocean, and there in no monitoring by the affected countries in the indian ocean.

But, the excuse I see(from another posting in this discussion) that they did not have contacts is a weak one. If somebody had the information beforehand that there would be destruction of this magnitude, it is their duty as a decent human being to use all resources they can marshall to get this information out.

Re:the us and japan

[Carewolf]

I seriously doubt CNN would carry a story of a potential catastrophy, at best they would prepare to cover it when it happens.

The procedure would be to call the secretary of state and let them inform the proper authorities and local media in the area. What is interesting is that they _did_ call the embassies, but somehow the message didn't go much further than that.

Re:the us and japan

[Politburo]

I seriously doubt CNN would carry a story of a potential catastrophy

You must not watch CNN then...

Re:the us and japan

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the worst sort of Monday morning quarterbacking. You write that as if anyone in the Tsunami Center in Hawaii KNEW that there was going to be a tsunami as a result of this earthquake--probable: yes; certain: no.

According to Various Agenceies

[OverlordQ]

The countries that bore the brunt of the tsunami had no notice of what was coming but the earthquake, the largest for 40 years, had been monitored by the Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre in Honolulu.

"We don't have contacts in our address book for anybody in that part of the world," National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration director Charles McCreery said.

Story here. Since that didn't work, they called the State Department, who ALSO tried to find out who to contact, but again, due to lack of adequate warning systems/organizations, they failed as well.

Re:According to Various Agenceies

[Anonymous Coward]

"We don't have contacts in our address book for anybody in that part of the world," National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration director Charles McCreery said.

No, but I imagine CNN and the Sri Lankan embassy are in the phone book. Fucking moron.

Re:According to Various Agenceies

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they? I just looked in my phone book and didn't see either one. Fucking moron.

Re:The worst hit

[Yaztromo]

The worst hit will be the numerous tourists who have visited these places. No one really knows how many have gone missing.

No, the worst hit so far have been the children, who don't have the knowledge, speed, strength, or endurance to cope with such a disaster.

The current numbers have fully 1 in 3 casualties being children, far dwarfing the tourist casualties. There are now nearly 14000 fewer children in the world, and that number is only going to climb as disease starts to affect populations in the area unless a global effort is taken immediately to provide clean water and supplies, and provide badly needed medical care to those affected thus far.

Yaz.

take your words to their logical conclusion

[circletimessquare]

so, you are suggesting that the usa put warning buoys in the indian ocean i assume? ..."usa spying on indian ocean! usa ignoring maritime rights of sovereign nations!"

and then, in the spirit of your words, the usa has to set up warning systems in the mainland... why? because the local authorities aren't doing so... and you are expecting the usa to shoulder this burden, right? ..."usa ignoring sovereignty and is doing actions tantamount to declaring war!"

how about this stunning idea for you: accountability and responsibilty are concepts that the usa doesn't have a monopoly on

Re:Actually, Rama plummeted into the ocean

[Temporal]

Actually, you get the same effect if you use "Plain Old Text" or "Extrans" formatting (between which I can't tell the difference), but without the monospace font. See, look?

I didn't need any HTML to separate this paragraph. The only style where you have to manually insert P or BR tags is "HTML Formatted".

Donations

[riteshm]

I am from India so I can talk about my country.

Any of you planning to donate some money? Dollar may be losing ground but it still has 44 times more value than Indian Rupees. So if you donate 100 dollars that means 4400 Indian Rupees (INR). And to give you an idea what this could mean.. a normal meal in India is around 40 INR while cheap clothing is around 100-200 INR. And medicines per day per person won't be more than 100-200 INR. Taking some conservative estimates, your 100 dollars can save an Indian for 10 days till things get under control and one can start living on one's own. Kindly consider donating... Visit my blog http://ritesh.blogspot.com/ and this blog http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/ for some info on how/where to donate. Redcross and UNICEF are also accepting donations now.

Regards, Ritesh

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

a normal meal in India is around 40 INR while cheap clothing is around 100-200 INR. And medicines per day per person won't be more than 100-200 INR.

comparison....

in the US a normal meal (at a resturant I am assuming) is $15-$20, cheap Clothing is about $15 to $20 and medicens per day are very near $100-$200 per day with medical treatment in a hospital reaching over $1000.

clothing and electronics are cheap here, but health is only for the rich, this is thanks to the US congress and the president, they encourage that the medical field rape the poor in an attempt to keep their population down.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe we should outsource our health to India?

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to sound like a bastard, but I second the parent opinion. Remember all that aid that India sent when the twin towers came down? I don't either.

If you guys want to live on the cheap and take our jobs in the process, fair enough. But when shit hits the fan don't come crying to us to bail you out--we take that high cost of living and invest in things like warning systems and medical care. If you want to compete with us with lower costs of living, you get what you pay for.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

People critize the US and its policies all the time - then when something like this happens they come crying for help. I've got news for you - I dont see foreign assistance for US hurricane relief.

Dont ask for clothes either - stop shipping them to the US for a few days and you'll have plenty.

When India, Bangladesh, and Indonesia assist the US in the Iraqi situation, I will support these countries. The US should only consider sending aid to Thailand, since this is on of the few affected countries to have assisted the US.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't sound like a bastard, you are one.

Indians "wanting to compete with you with lower costs of living"?
Is that really your understanding of a 3rd world country?

Have you got even a small knowledge of the economical differences between India and US? I guess not. And you won't ever go to see yourself, as you won't pull your head off you ass.

You and the parent's poster are both examples of the worst kind of selfish scum. And you'll still wondering for long why a growing part of the world hate USA.
I'm sorry for the US citizens that have to live with morons like you and I'm very sorry that YOU didn't die.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen.

Re:Donations

[Derek Pomery]

The AC is right.
Deltas are what are important with currencies, not relative unit sizes. (well, deltas and how they reflect a whole complex mess of loans in the form of currency, bonds, stocks, confidence in a country, mortgages etc etc)
If the USD and the INR stayed perpetually at a ratio of 1:44 what would matter is how much you can buy with that currency.
If 1 USD will buy a loaf of bread, but 44 INR will buy the same loaf of bread, it makes no difference and the INR could not be considered "weak".

But yeah, there *are* economic gradients.
If I moved from the area where I live (where a single bedroom apartment is between $1000-$1500 a month) to some other part of the U.S. where it is only $250, then sure I'd be saving money.
Helluva commute though.

So, anyway. I totally agree that sending money will help. Just that it doesn't matter whether you send it in USD or INR - and if the INR is stable, who cares? What matters is where your particular area is in the economic gradients. Just like someone in a city in india probably has way more INR than someone in the country.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

Crying just makes the water problem worse, you know.

The fact is, shit happens. It's their own fault their "booming high-tech economy" didn't take two steps back and say to itself "For the cost of this new PC, we could provide a remote village of 3000 with an early-warning system and feed them all for a week."

Fuck em. America wasn't built on sympathy for other countries, when you think about it. It was built by people trying to get _away_ from places like India, where a hundred years have gone by and they still haven't managed to figure out how to keep the lights on.

Re:Donations

[Erisian Pope]

Wow... fuck you people. We're talking 50,000+ dead and all you can think about is your wallet?! They're now facing an epidemic of disease from all the rotting human and animal corpses. They need money for tarps and drinkable water. There is _no_ comparison with september 11th. These people need help, people like you make me ashamed to be American.

Re:Donations

[metamorphage]

If you were an Indian made homeless by this disaster, and an American told you, "Well, I really want to help you, but seeing as your country didn't support us in Iraq, no money for you!" how would you feel? Wouldn't you feel inclined to criticize "the US and its policies"? Don't decide who you want to help based on whether their country - something they likely have no control over - supports us.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

so?

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

The above and parent represent the most hateful posts that I've read on slashdot. Rather than being based on some rational process I can only suspect deep seated racism. Could there be another reason for such reaction to greater than 50 000 deaths across many countries.

Think hurricanes in the past year...I'm in Canada and I know that many Canadians made there way down to the southern states to lend assistance (on each occasion). Your country is rich but the human tragedy touches those who are....well, different than you.

Re:Donations

[Kelson]

I sent some money to the Red Cross last night.

For anyone reading this, be sure to mark the International Response Fund, not the Disaster Relief Fund, if you want the money to go to this recovery effort. The Disaster Relief Fund is earmarked for efforts inside the US, so that's the one to use the next time a quake/flood/hurricane hits us.

Re:Donations

[/dev/trash]

I dunno. Last week, I was called an ignorant evil American. Now everyone wants my hard earned dollars to help out.

Plus how am I sure that 90% or more of my money makes it to actual relief and not to some CEOs pocket?

Re:Donations

[riteshm]

Last week, I was called an ignorant evil American. Now everyone wants my hard earned dollars to help out.

You have proved yet again why you are called an "ignorant evil American".

Btw, the appeal was not to "Americans" but to all "Humans" (nationality no bar). You decide which of the one are you first. No offence to the other Americans.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

They will. Besides, you are a black sheep in the human gene pool. It is better if you are never needed for the rest of humanity.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

Your help is not needed. Indians can take care of themselves. Thank you.

Re:Donations

[palfreman]

It's a natural disaster, but it's not the end of the world. Countries like Indoneasia, Thailand, Sri Lanka and India are not *that* poor. Some people got killed and it will take a while to tidy up the mess, but these countries will get over it and will continue making the very rapid progress they have been making in recent years.

A big dollop of foreign aid is the last thing these countries need. They are perfectly capable of managing their own affairs, and lots of aid will only cause local distortions. Besides, the scale of the damage is far to broad for focussed aid projects to be of any use, and they will be too late - all the damage will have been fixed before they even get started.

This disaster has affected a lot of tourist areas. The best things foriegners can do to help is to carry on going there on holiday.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense intended, but he did have a point (a rather poorly worded one).

I'm sorry for your tradgedy but it is rather awkward when my country is bad mouthed up and down by foreigners who, when shit gets bad, show up with their hand out. I believe in helping everyone to make the world ultimately a better place regardless of how you treat me. However... a thank you or a kind word would be nice once in a while.

Re:Donations

[Anonymous Coward]

I would wonder why this Indian fellow had it in his head that an American OWED him anything in the first place.

This how the Indian should feel, the Americans' don't owe me anything in the first place so I have no hard feelings.

Re:Donations

[meringuoid]

Holy fuck... who marked this Insightful? A note to you, whoever you may be: if I get this in metamod, I'll contradict it with great joy, and if I see you crossing the road, I won't brake. You evil piece of shit.

Re:Donations

[/dev/trash]

Anyway. Have you donated yet? MSF has a checkbox to earmark any one time donations to the crisis in Asia. The next 4-6 weeks will be critical.

Re:Donations

[evbergen]

Your country isn't badmouthed, you are not badmouthed, rather your government is criticised, and for very good reasons.

These people do an appeal to you as a human, not as an American.

Kind regards,

Emile.

Apparently - and surprisingly - no problem

[newandyh-r]

A press release earlier today (from Hawaii - go figure) claims "no problem"; but their web site has been off the air since the tsunami. I would have thought it well within the danger radius and very low above sea level ... implying very expensive damage and (unless warned) serious loss of life. I suppose the picket warships should have been able to give a short warning.

Re:Apparently - and surprisingly - no problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm quite certain it's a lie. This is just something they need to say so they can point to it if the question ever comes up.

I think you should get some rest

[bob in ny]

The US has scientific interests all around the globe which are justified based on a broad understanding of how global weather and geological systems work. Of course the US should have had monitoring equipment along the fault line that finally broke! It would have been an appropriate scientific investment for this government to make.

i see

[circletimessquare]

you've already decided that iraq and afghanistan are failures

well, with such advanced perception as enjoyed by no other human being on this planet, i have no other choice but to concede to you

(snicker)

ps: if the protests you speak of WERE directed at the suffering in sudan, you would have a point, but protesting loudly against the usa on the street and then saying "oh and uh, i got some stuff on my website about sudan" does not mean your criticisms are proportional or in line with a real human conscience about the suffering in this world

suffering which the usa is hard at work relieving by putting in place democratic institutions which will promote peace and prosperity where there currently is none

Re:i see

[Troed]

suffering which the usa is hard at work relieving by putting in place democratic institutions which will promote peace and prosperity where there currently is none

You really didn't understand a single thing I wrote now did you? Again - you're NOT doing anything good in those countries. You're NOT on your way to "help" them become democratic. You're NOT the saviour of the world - and you would know all this if you actually studied the facts instead of listening to the official doctrine along with the rest of the american sheeple.

Start here.

Re:i see

[gordo3000]

suffering which the usa is hard at work relieving

I don't believe I have once heard an American president have our country go to war to relieve suffering of another group. It just seems to be our last excuse when we run out of good reasons to do what we are doing. Everyone one of my friends who rapantly supported the war couldn't deal with there not being weapons of mass destruction. First they say it'll take time to find them, then they start comparing the size of hte country to finding a needle in california. And finally, instead of admitting we went to war on a bad reason, try to say its all worth it for the humanity.

Thats all bullshit, the USA doesn't go to war and put american lives on the line so Iraqis sleep well at night, its so americans can sleep better. If there are good consequences(spreading democracy and such) then so be it.

Now on the other hand, the UN, which conveniently ignores the slaughter of innocent people around the globe, should probably be doing some of these altruistic works. But nope. Let all them Europeans have a say, and lots of other countries, nad guess what, the world doesn't come to save the Sudanese or stop the blood shed in Rwanda(I think, Tutsis(sp?) and the Hootu's(sp?)). So all the europeans who say we don't care about human life need to go shove it. Start doing something if you care or just shut the hell up because you obviously are just looking to blame someone else for what your own decadence can lead to.

just as a note, most of the major problems in africa and the middle east have there roots with European foreign policy and only since WWII has america actually involved itself in those things. At least I can always say america wasn't the root of the problem and actaully tries to do something to solve it rather than complain.

Re:i see

[PhoenixFlare]

You're NOT the saviour of the world - and you would know all this if you actually studied the facts instead of listening to the official doctrine along with the rest of the american sheeple.

Way to generalize. I love how Americans would get figuratively flayed alive if they tried spewing such things about other countries, but somehow it's okay for everyone else to assume that all US citizens are mindless drones and support the "official doctrine" unconditionally.

And since it seems pertinent to this point, from your website:

To my american readers. You're not under attack. There are no wars you need to fight. You should look after your own country instead of pretending to be the world police. You need to elect a leader with at least half a brain - and get rid of your two party system as quickly as you can

Almost half the country (including myself) tried, my friend. I get the feeling people like you wouldn't be happy with anything short of a violent revolution, though.

Again, you seem to think that the entire country is akin to a hive-mind - we're all fat, warmongering, right-wing nutjobs.

Re:i see

[Troed]

Since your Democratic party is considered right-wing anywhere but in the US, I don't really see what kind of change will happen just because half the population aren't republicans.

Re:i see

[Fnkmaster]

Yes, we all take the official doctrine hook line and sinker. That's why about 49% of us worked so hard to get Bush out of office, and why in almost every one of the states with a well-educated populace he was defeated soundly.

I know, I know, you're really just pumping your blog and trolling as you always do Troed. You could at least acknowledge an "ends justifies the means" debate when one exist.

Clearly Afghanistan is far more democratic now then it was under the Taliban, this isn't even worth discussing - you can't compare Afghanistan with the democracy of a modern first world country, which will take decades to achieve there. And Iraq, of course, I will reserve judgement for, but it's hard to get less democratic than Saddam Hussein's regime (doesn't mean I think the invasion of Iraq was justified however).

Re:i see

[Troed]

Clearly Afghanistan is far more democratic now then it was under the Taliban

vs

In a series of extraordinary reports, the latest published in July, Human Rights Watch has documented atrocities "committed by gunmen and warlords who were propelled into power by the United States and its coalition partners after the Taliban fell in 2001" and who have "essentially hijacked the country". The report describes army and police troops controlled by the warlords kidnapping villagers with impunity and holding them for ransom in unofficial prisons; the widespread rape of women, girls and boys; routine extortion, robbery and arbitrary murder. Girls' schools are burned down. "Because the soldiers are targeting women and girls," the report says, "many are staying indoors, making it impossible for them to attend school [or] go to work."

In the western city of Herat, for example, women are arrested if they drive; they are prohibited from travelling with an unrelated man, even an unrelated taxi driver. If they are caught, they are subjected to a "chastity test", squandering precious medical services to which, says Human Rights Watch, "women and girls have almost no access, particularly in Herat, where fewer than one per cent of women give birth with a trained attendant". The death rate of mothers giving birth is the highest in the world, according to Unicef. Herat is ruled by the warlord Ismail Khan, whom US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld endorsed as "an appealing man... thoughtful, measured and self-confident".

link

... do you want something on Iraq as well? What the US has done in Afghanistan is a joke.

Re:i see

[PhoenixFlare]

My point was not a discussion on the leftness or rightness of our political parties. My point was that you're insisting on lumping all Americans together inside one monolithic worldview. That is wrong, whether it's regarding the US, Sweden, or any other country.

Personally, all the Swedes i've ever met (except for one, and she immigrated from someone else) have come off as being arrogant, anti-American, slightly bigoted, and generally exuding the attitude that they and their views are completely superior to mine.

Despite that, I realize that the small number of people i've met from your country are (hopefully) not representative of the whole population, and that I cannot generalize about the personalities of so many people from such a small sample.

Re:i see

[Fnkmaster]

Right, in other words, things are still very bad in parts of the country, which I fully agree with. However, many of those parts of the country were effectively under warlord control before 2001 as well, and the rest was under Taliban control, which wasn't much better.

So moving away from the specific problems with a despotic warlord ruling over Herat and moving back to the leadership of the rest of this large nation, we come back to my original statement - that Afghanistan is _more_ democratic now than it was under the Taliban. Not that it's a shining beacon of national unity, strong central government, human rights or anything else.

Also - the claim that these warlords somehow magically appeared after 2001 is ludicrous - they have been operating in parts of the country with impunity for years. I have a friend who is on Human Rights Watch staff and I've confronted her about her organization's tendency to hyperbole in their releases before, and even she agrees that they sometimes push the boundaries of reasonableness with the things they say.

Re:i see

[Troed]

You're not supporting your statement.

Re:i see

[skink1100]

Sure he did; he's just not touting a hyperbolic press release as fact in order to do so.

S

Re:i see

[LnxAddct]

Wow I guess some people are just so ignorant and stubborn that they can't see the light of day. Wake up guy, a lot of progress is being made, I mean a ton of progress and this is from first hand reports from soldiers over there. Did you ever think that maybe the media that your listening to has a bias against America and is trying to make it seem as bad as humanly possible? After all, tragedy and disaster make good news, nobody wants to hear about good things or progress so maybe your views are distorted by your distorted media. Or the alternative is that either consciously or subconsciously you neglect the prgress being made. You really seem to have it out for America, one day during the next World War or whatever, when Americans are saving your ass I hope you'll change your attitude.
Regards,
Steve

Re:i see

[j_snare]

Almost half the country (including myself) tried, my friend.

Oddly enough, even a lot of us who voted for Bush agree with a lot of these ideas, but the Dems must have *wanted* to lose. If they wanted to win they could have put someone worth a damn up to bat, I certainly would have voted for him. Given how pathetic Bush is for a choice, Kerry was insulting. Neither choice was acceptable. As the parent said, we really need to get rid of our two party system, or get some new blood in there at the very least!

Re:i see

[PhoenixFlare]

Oddly enough, even a lot of us who voted for Bush agree with a lot of these ideas, but the Dems must have *wanted* to lose. If they wanted to win they could have put someone worth a damn up to bat, I certainly would have voted for him

True, pretty much. I liked a lot of things about Kerry, but he also made some mind-numbingly idiotic moves that really sunk his chances.

Given how pathetic Bush is for a choice, Kerry was insulting. Neither choice was acceptable.

I wouldn't go that far. I have to wonder how Kerry would have handled the morass of problems Bush built up, though - it's probably best (for him, anyway) that he didn't win, as much as that admission pains me.

Re:i see

[bani]

yes he did.

Re:i see

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, all the Swedes i've ever met (except for one, and she immigrated from someone else) have come off as being arrogant, anti-American, slightly bigoted, and generally exuding the attitude that they and their views are completely superior to mine.

Yes, that's true: most Swedes are arrogant. It does reflect the population. That may be un-PC, but it's true.

Despite that, I realize that the small number of people i've met from your country are (hopefully) not representative of the whole population, and that I cannot generalize about the personalities of so many people from such a small sample.

Likewise, most Americans are ignorants corporate drones. That is a stereotype - not all Americans are like that, there are exceptions.

But it's also fact that the majority are. Most Americans are ignorant consumers, whether Democrat or Republican. Sorry if the truth hurts. The few exceptions don't count for much.

there's no need to use a small sample. look at Amazon, look at Britney Spears, Clear Channel. Look at Walmart, George W Bush, Microsoft - that's a MASSIVE amount of stupidity. The rational must be in a minority if the stupid have such large numbers and power. Stupidity is firmly in power.

Re:i see

[thisgooroo]

My point was that you're insisting on lumping all Americans together inside one monolithic worldview.

seems to be common human behavior. i have heard enough (not all) americans insist that "all french are surrender monkeys" and that from now on they would eat freedom fries

Osama Bin Laden deserves thanks here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of terrorist threats from himself and his associates, many many thousands of tourists from western countries stayed away from the Indian Ocean region out of fear of terrorist attack.

How ironic!! He saved many "infidel" lives as a result of his evil actions.

Re: You won't read anything about it...

[Black Parrot]

> I still hope that it will soon be gone. Not through some horrible disaster, because that's not a very nice thing to wish on anybody, but through continued political pressure.

The US's lease runs out in 2016, though I can't imagine that the UK would fail to renew it.

BTW, an interesting/informative article about the history and current military/pollitical arrangements at Diego Garcia can be found at globalsecurity.org.

Given its location and elevation (4' average, 22' maximum, according to the article), it's somewhat surprising that they didn't get washed away.

again

[circletimessquare]

i ask of you why you ask of the united states to have so much responsibility and accountability for things far beyond its shores, but you do not ask of the governments right there to have the same level of responsibility and accountability

Obligatory Conan O'Brien

[Zorilla]

(Rhythmic clapping) Ah'ma gonna go to hell when ah die! Ah'ma gonna go to hell when ah die!

Wobble != Orbit

[EvilTwinSkippy]

The Earth's orbit DID NOT change. What may have changed (slightly) is the angle at which the Earth sits in relation to the plane of the ecliptic.

Short of a major loss or gain of mass, or impulse from a massive impact, the Earth just keeps trucking along in it's rut. While the energy is tremendous in an Earthquake, the energy just moves mass around within the same system.

Re:Wobble != Orbit

[Anonymous Coward]

I just hope this doesn't put is back in the cone for that asteroid - D'oh!!!

Re:Wobble != Orbit

[ashwinds]

Hmmm - I did see a news article which said that there was a change in the Orbit - maybe wrong... but I expected this when I read of the huge earthquake about a week ago in Antartica. I mean - being as it is at the pole - a disturbance there can cause quiet a wobble.

You are asking the wrong question

[bob in ny]

I ask you why we should not have an informed, intelligent program of scientific discovery aimed at understanding global processes -- some of which may affect us directly and others of which affect us indirectly, but all of which contribute to a more scientific understanding of how the world works. Other governments and other nations may do other things. But why are we not investing in the science of this matter?

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

What a moron...

Your conclusion is illogical

[bob in ny]

My reasoning is that understanding global processes is something that a leader in science and technology ought to be interested in. That's pretty simple. We have floating bouys all over the world reporting to our satellites with information relayed to NASA and NOAA supercomputer centers. Another post talks about the USGS Hawaii office detecting the earthquake in this region. Of course we should have monitors and of course there should be funding for scientific investigations of these matters because of course it's a really important global environmental issue. And if we have the information that can protect and save lives, then we actually do have a moral responsibility to share that information. Others may or may not act and that is in their court. But our failure to act is on us.

the usa is not the savior of the world

[circletimessquare]

but when madmen from the middle east kill thousands of my fellow countrymen in office towers, then the responsibility has been thrust upon my country to remedy the socioeconomic, geopolitical, and theohistoric forces that conspire to turn men who would otherwise be doctors and lawyers into cold blooded murderers

tell me, you who has all the answers, what an american is supposed to do after 9/11?

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[Troed]

You might want to compare the number of americans dead at 9/11 to the numbers of middle-eastern deaths caused by the USA. There's a factor of 1000 involved. The only thing you're doing now in Afghanistan and Iraq is causing MORE people to become anti-american - and guess what will happen then?

Fix your own issues, and stop messing about with the rest of the world.

Iraqi children deformed and dying because of US weapons - long after the war

(there are a few hundred other links about the same issue - and that's just ONE issue)

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[CmdrGravy]

Right, so this is what you are really concerned with then - "How can we get revenge for 9/11".

No responsibility has been thrust on your country for anything, you decided that rather than doing anything about Osama Bin Laden and the actual terrorists responsible for 9/11 you'd first of all invade Afghanistan and then later Iraq which had absolutley nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

If you are that concerned about responsibility then you should concede that the responsibility for the socioeconomic, geopolitical and theohistoric (??) forces at work here have been to a large extent driven by American policy. Brave Afghan Freedom fighters helping us against the Evil Menace of Communism then = Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorists today.

What you should have done after 9/11 is accept that terrorism can happen, try and track down the actual people responsible for that terrorism.

What you should not have done is make up this whole Al Quida global terrorist conspiracy crap and then used that as an excuse to invade Iraq, set up concentration camps on remote islands and enact a load of repressive and basically illegal laws to support your delusions.

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I don't think the answer is starting a war that will cause a lot of anger in the Middle East so that even more people turm into cold blooded murderers instead of doctors and lawyers.

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[NoOneInParticular]

So, please tell me, what has the USA done to the root cause of the killings: Wahibi doctrine spread actively by the Saudi government. I have yet to see any pressure put on the Saudi government to stop their fundamentalistic expansion. It's going to get much worse still, not in the least because of the erratic actions of the US government.

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[PhoenixFlare]

No responsibility has been thrust on your country for anything, you decided that rather than doing anything about Osama Bin Laden and the actual terrorists responsible for 9/11 you'd first of all invade Afghanistan and then later Iraq which had absolutley nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

What you should have done after 9/11 is accept that terrorism can happen, try and track down the actual people responsible for that terrorism.

What you should not have done is make up this whole Al Quida global terrorist conspiracy crap and then used that as an excuse to invade Iraq, set up concentration camps on remote islands and enact a load of repressive and basically illegal laws to support your delusions.

See, this is part of the problem. A lot of non-Americans ( and Europeans in particular ) seem to have a tough time realizing that the actions of the US government are not always supported/agreed with by all ( or even most ) of our citizens.

Never mind the fact that a sizable portion of us Americans didn't support the policies you're ranting about, have tried to change everything within our power, and totally despise the current administration...Just keep on with the generalizing and assuming.

Like someone said above, anti-Americanism seems to be in fashion these days, or at least acceptable - no doubt it makes you feel better about yourself somehow.

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[danielobvt]

set up concentration camps on remote islands
Pluuueeaaseee.. Have you ever seen footage of the end result of a real concentration camp? There wouldn't be a single inmate at a german or soviet concentration camp who wouldn't kill to be kept in an american "concentration camp". Lets see here, we feed them food that meets their dietary needs, provide access to their religion, and barely lay a hand on them. Compare that to being worked to death on a starvation diet or paying a visit to the showers.

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[thisgooroo]

this doesn't change the fact that these camps are used to hold people against their will and without any legal basis, just like oyther concentration camps

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[danielobvt]

Yes it does. Internment camps would work. But you deliberately choose an inflammatory word that has loads of negative connotations. If you truly cannot tell the difference (both in scale and severity) then their really is no need for any further dialog, since you would be so deep into your dogmatic responses that its not worth the electrons to respond to you.
BTW, most of the people being held down in Gitmo are a legal exception, not really covered by international law (as they were picked up in a war zone, fighting uniformed servicemen, without any corresponding uniform of their own. Which according to those beloved international laws of yours makes them illegal combatants, and they should thank their lucky stars that they are even alive.).

Re:the usa is not the savior of the world

[thisgooroo]

But you deliberately choose an inflammatory word that has loads of negative connotations.

well, it wasn't me who introduced that word into the discussion

If you truly cannot tell the difference (both in scale and severity)

what i gave was a pretty precise functional description of these camps

then their really is no need for any further dialog

agreed. you are too brainwashed by your government's propaganda to see the similarities.

believe me, the nazis, commies, and brits (who supposedly invented these camps, definitely used them during the boer wars) also came up with very convincing arguments that the camps were for the benefit of mankind and that the inmates didn't deserve any better. and all the time there were idiots like you who actually believed it

Environmental Change and Weather Warfare

[Anonymous Coward]

While everyone is discussing about global warming, climate changes and naturales disasters, Id like to point a few things.

Natural disasters, and climate changes can be manipulated by some countries.

As an example, a tsumani can be easily generated if we put, at least 1000 atomic bombs on the sea ground.

During the coldwar, the US was developing a program called HAARP:

Based in Gokoma, Alaska, and jointly managed by the US Air Force and Navy, HAARP is part of a new generation of sophisticated weaponry under the SDI. Operated by the Air Force Research Laboratory's Space Vehicles Directorate, it constitutes a system of powerful antennas capable of creating "controlled local modifications of the ionosphere."

See more@ http://twm.co.nz/Wxwarfare.htm

Hope we all can understand what the US is upto...

Re:Environmental Change and Weather Warfare

[letxa2000]

There are people that believe a lot of weird things about HAARP including that it can control the weather and create earthquakes. It's a bunch of conspiracy nonsense. Get the truth here.

we are making those investments

[circletimessquare]

and other governments are making those investments as well

so i don't entirely understand your problem

Re:The worst hit

[jcr]

I won't cry for you.

Does affecting an air of righteous indignation help you cope with a tragedy of this scale?

-jcr

Good coverage in Germany too...

[hughk]

Germany has no colonial connections there but this is considered a *major* event. The Germans like to travel and there were probably a lot of them caught up in the tragedy (perhaps even more than the UK). The journalists don't really care about which nationalities they are are talking to so I have seen English people interviewed on German TV and Germans interviewed on British TV (at least, BBC World). An interesting point is that the Beeb doesn't like to show dead bodies (a bit difficult at the moment), but the Germans don't seem to mind showing it.

I agree that the US is actually quite vulnerable. They catch other diasters such as hurricanes on a regular basis on the east coast, but "The big splash", either from an earthquake in the Pacific or that landslide in the Canaries would dwarf what has already been seen.

you are wrong

[circletimessquare]

you fail to concede that responsibility and accountability is not the sole province of the usa, and that if something happens in the indian ocean, the usa should help, and it is helping...

but the failure to act in a timely manner and not having a system in place to save lives is something the governments local to the indian ocean have proved shameful about, not the usa

because your pov seems to demand of the usa to respect other people (warn them appropriately to save lives)... by disrespecting other people (set up a system that disregards their own abilities to take care of themselves)

the usa is a member of the global community, not an owner of the global community

you cannot condemn the usa for not doing something that your own pov insists they cannot do

follow the logic of your position to its conclusion, and you will see the logical inconsistencies in what you are saying

Re:you are wrong

[bani]

follow the logic of your position to its conclusion, and you will see the logical inconsistencies in what you are saying

no, he won't. he's incapable of it.

Re:you are wrong

[danielobvt]

follow the logic of your position
Ah your big mistake. Logic never seems to do all that well when it faces down Dogma. "Facts? I don't need no stinkin facts, because I know the Truth."

Re:you are wrong

[Kaemaril]

the usa is a member of the global community, not an owner of the global community

Now if only somebody would tell that to the US government ...

Re:You are wrong

[riteshm]

If you do not want to help, just shut the f**k up. Btw, the link my parent AC gave has Ambanis as the richest Indians. Now read this http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/97 1874.cms Anil Ambani has provided 1 crore Rupees for the relief fund.

Mostly tsunami news in Iraq.

[Anonymous Coward]

As I watch FoxNews/CNN from Iraq, its almost all about the tsunami. I don't know what they show on the various Evening News broadcasts, though.

This is not the first time

[AnuradhaRatnaweera]

Most media are reporting that this is the first of this kind in Sri Lanka. I think it is wrong. Sri Lanka has a written history of over 2500 years in a book called "Mahawamsa", which is still maintained, and it reports (along with many other books and of course fork tales) a huge natural disaster in 2nd century B.C., where sea waves came upto Kelaniya (close to Colombo).

This Sunday times article starts with the latter part of the story. Complete, but brief, story can be found here and here.

This article gives a list of kings, but nothing about the disaster.

Re:This is not the first time

[Milkyman]

yeah i think if the last time it happened was in the 2nd century BC, this can count as the first time as far as we're concerned

Re:This is not the first time

[TheLink]

If the last time this sort of thing happened in Sri Lanka was in 200 BC, then I suppose one can't be so harsh on the Sri Lankan Gov for not being that prepared for such an event (even though IMO after a 8.9 Richter (or anything over 7) event anyone in coastal areas around the epicenter should obviously prepare for tsunamis).

Oh well. Hindsight 20-20...

Re:This is not the first time

[danila]

The bigger problem is that the "governments" everywhere are completely incapable of acting according to the future needs, even when these needs are obvious to intelligent and knowledgable people (scientists) and to everyone in hindsight.

Consider the MN4 asteroid. Now, especially if the probability goes up a bit more, we can expect some actions by the "governments" to prevent the disaster in 2029. But we knew that comets and asteroids can be deadly for decades now. The first ideas about protection appeared a long time ago, but nothing was done because people in charge are morons. They simple can't be proactive, they can only do their current duties and even that very poorly.

The same is with future technological developments (nanotechnologies, AI, biotech, etc.). Most governments today either do very little or nothing at all, simply because they have no imagination and don't listen to those who have.

Technology of tsunami prediction

[Aku Head]

From what I have been able to determine, we don't really predict tsunamis. We detect an earthquake under the ocean and wait for the tsunami to hit. If the earthquake is less than 6.5, we ignore it.

The tsunami is detected by buoys that measure the tide. If the tide goes way up at the wrong time, it must be a tsunami. If the buoy is close to the epicenter, we can then warn people that are farther away. The buoys only work when they are in shallow water. It has been reported on the news that the buoys are very expensive and this is why the nations that were hit by this disaster did not invest in tsunami prediction. It seems to me that a shore based tide detector would be very cheap if it was connected by land line.

A massive displacement of the seafloor or an undersea landslide is required to create a tsunami. There doesn't seem to be any theory for predicting this other than going with the intensity measurement of the earthquake. There doesn't seem to be any large effort to place instruments on the ocean floor to detect this movement. (It would probably cost too much)

What about the high energy wave that travels vast distances through the ocean? Shouldn't there be some way to detect this wave?

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[EvilTwinSkippy]

How are you planning on warning people in countries that barely have working phone service? These are countries where fire claims lives because there are no fire codes, and people don't know to evacuate during a fire alarm.

You are going to need a massive education program to accompany said warning system, in nations where large portions of the population can't read. While it can be done, and it should be done, all the technology in the world is not going to fix this problem. Education will.

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, nuclear weapons are so much cheaper than buoys.

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

However, the land mines were a steal.

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

How are you planning on warning people in countries that barely have working phone service?

Even the poorest of the poor countries have FM radio broadcasts and villages can easily share the cost of one or several receivers.

The technology is there, but it was not used, so people died.

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[Dmala]

These are countries where fire claims lives because there are no fire codes, and people don't know to evacuate during a fire alarm.

I hate to say it, but an awful lot of Americans don't know to evacuate during a fire alarm. I've worked/been in several retail stores where a fire alarm has gone off and most people just continue shopping as if nothing happened.

Re:Technology of tsunami prediction

[EvilTwinSkippy]

You missed my point. Handing FM radios out to every man woman and child in SE Asia means zero if they don't understand where to go and what to do in an emergency. That's nothing technology can cure. It's man months of work site surveying the area, analyzing the topography, and posting intelligable signs telling people were to go when the shit hits the fan.

Then the REAL fun begins. Explaining to folks what the signs mean, and what that "BEEP BEEP BEEP" of the emergency broadcast system means, and that you really don't have time to go back to your hut, if you value your life you drop what you are doing and run.

One of my jobs was a theater operator in an Imax. Every few months I had to empty the theater because of a fire alarm, and every time we had campers who would stay in their seat, complainers who, while I'm trying to conduct the evacuation insist on grabbing my attention so I can personally answer questions that I had already answered over the PA, or would have no way of knowing otherwise (after all folks, I was watching the show with YOU), and finally the cro-magnons who, despite explicit instructions to leave through the top of the theater (both before the show, during my announcement of the evacuation, and finally with 8 foot tall letters on the screen), insist on going down, and attracting a herd of lemmings in the process.

Weather Warfare

[Anonymous Coward]

See this source as well:

http://twm.co.nz/Wxwarfare.htm

Terrible news, Yes. Dwarfs 9/11, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

The loss of life is indeed tragic, but at the end of the day it was an act of nature, an accident. 9/11 was planned mass murder.

So while I lament any loss of life, I don't think these events are in the same league.

Re:South Asian Bloggers unite for Tsunami Help Blo

[melkorainur]

hi everyone, for those of you who might have relatives on the south eastern indian coast, especially remote and less reported by major media places like shreitapur etc: the bayarea tamil manram has setup information pages to help track news. if you have any news from your relatives/home town/etc this would be a good place to post it.

here's the original post:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bayarea-tamil-manram /message/170 and reproducing it here: Dear Friends, The Bay Area Tamil Manram recognizes the need for members and friends to exchange reliable news about their relatives, friends and loved ones impacted by the Sumatra Tsunami. We welcome the members to join the bayarea-tamil-forum@yahoogroups.com mailing list to exchange news. There are several Tamil newspapers and magazines in addition to Tamil blogs that are tracking the news of the disaster. However, the Tamil Nadu coast is long and there are several little hamlets that are not covered by the major news media. If you have access to information, you may want to share that with the fellow members. To subscribe to the forum send a message to: bayarea-tamil-forum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To Post a message: send the message to bayarea-tamil-forum@yahoogroups.com

The difference is...

[Amata]

Ok, maybe this is just showing how my brain works, but...

There is a very great difference between a human's knowing intent to cause pain and suffering, and nature once again reminding us who is really the boss.

With willful human intent, you have the questions of who did it, why, how, where did the money come from, are we going to go after their bosses, what scale is the conflict going to be on...?

With a natural disaster, the conversation is more along the lines of "told ya we shoulda had a better warning system" and "told ya we shoulda had a stricter building code" or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, in both cases there is the question of "is my relative OK?" I'm not quite that machine-minded. Also the "who's going to clean this up?" If they weren't already spread thin as hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the answer to the last one was US Soldiers. Believe me, the government keeps tabs on stuff the public could care less about/doesn't know about.

Maybe they did get washed away

[Anonymous Coward]

Would the army tell you that they lost the base? Of course not. I vote for DG being gone for good.

Re:Maybe they did get washed away

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree - the one-line blanket denial seems pat. I'd be very surprised indeed if they "weren't affected at all".

So it goes.

[AndreyF]

Worse things have happened.

Re:So it goes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, let's only report on stuff when it's the biggest ever, worst ever, best ever or ugliest ever. Wouldn't be much news left then, would there?

Re:So it goes.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish something worse would happen to you.

Good Grief

[The Tyro]

All the recriminations now begin, even before the bodies are buried (or even counted). Bottom Line: This is an unprecedented natural disaster, and the same warning/response systems that existed in the pacific didn't really exist in that area of the world.

This is something so far out of the realm of most peoples experience, that it's quite natural to assume some incredulity on their part. Do you pay attention to the wide-eyed guy on the street corner with the sign that says "The end is near?" I thought not... most people ignore him, just as you probably do.

Just to add to the political fray, some reports have UN officials already complaining that the US and other western nations are being "stingy" with their aid packages... and even suggesting that those countries raise taxes on their citizens to pay for more aid (if you believe the Wash. Times).

Maybe some of these folks should focus more on helping, rather than wasting their breath trying to find a scapegoat.

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to add to the political fray, some reports have UN officials already complaining that the US and other western nations are being "stingy" with their aid packages... and even suggesting that those countries raise taxes on their citizens to pay for more aid (if you believe the Wash. Times).

Reuters reports that the US promises 15 Million dollar aid. With dollar at what it is, probably it will not even cover burying the dead.

Re:Good Grief

[teg]

Just to add to the political fray, some reports have UN officials already complaining that the US and other western nations are being "stingy" with their aid packages... and even suggesting that those countries raise taxes on their citizens to pay for more aid (if you believe the Wash. Times).

That particular official is from Norway. Norway, with less than 1/60th of the US population, has already donated 50 million NOK (a bit more than 8 million US dollars), mostly through NGOs. The US has donated 15 million US dollars.

In both countries, people are also donating themselves.

Re:Good Grief

[Planesdragon]

Ok, Norway donated more to this than the US.

Who else has Norway donated to in the past year?

Re:Good Grief

[the_rev_matt]

Fortunately, most people have the good sense not to believe the Washington Times.

Re:Good Grief

[Martin Blank]

The US is also moving naval assets in the region -- which often have helicopters -- into place to assist with operations, and is deploying P-3 Orion reconnaissance aircraft to take pictures of the coastlines to assist in planning recovery operations.

I expect US donations from private citizens and aid groups are ramping up fairly quickly.

Re:Good Grief

[Hallow]

That's 15 million to the UN for aid, and that's for "starters". Forget that we contribute over 20% of the UN's budget, and in the past few years have actually paid in the billions.

With the oil for food fiasco, the UN is not the logical place to put all the money for this, unless you want it horribly mismanaged.

Personally, I think groups like the Red Cross/Red Crescent would be able to make better use of the funds.
Links:
American
International/Red Crescent

Re:Good Grief

[Martin Blank]

It's unprecedented in recent times. The explosion of Krakatoa in 1883 killed about 36,000 people, but since then, the tsunamis have been pretty rare, with the most powerful one killing only a few hundred in India. The region really had no reason to concentrate on a tsunami warning system, because there were always more important (and less expensive) things to deal with.

What this should remind everyone is that no one is immune to tsunamis. Even the eastern coasts of the Americas and the Caribbean Islands are in the direct path of a significant tsunami should the unstable side of one of the Canary Islands collapse, which it will likely do sometime in the next 200 years.

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAi d.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

According to the 2004 national budget (in Norwegian) , the main strategic aid partners in 2004 were: Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Bangladesh and Nepal.

Others were Angola, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Madagascar, Mali, South-Africa, Afghanistan, Indonesia, China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Vietnam og East-Timor, Guatemala, Nicaragua and the Palestinian areas.

Re:Good Grief

[justins]

Just to add to the political fray, some reports have UN officials already complaining [washtimes.com] that the US and other western nations are being "stingy" with their aid packages... and even suggesting that those countries raise taxes on their citizens to pay for more aid (if you believe the Wash. Times).

And you shouldn't, not without some corroboration. It's a truly crappy paper, not just because of its right-wing slant, but because of the quality of the journalism.

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

the unstable side of one of the Canary Islands collapse, which it will likely do sometime in the next 200 years.

Bullhockeypucks! Investigations of previous slides show that while a portion of the island may slide away, it will only do so in small pieces, and not as one mass unit.

The analogy is this: if you drop a brick into a pool, you get splash. If you break the brick into smaller pieces first, there are almost no waves.

The East Coast is completely safe.

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

What this should remind everyone is that no one is immune to tsunamis.

Nepalese, Tibetans, be warned! You are not immune to tsunamis!

Re:Good Grief

[Anonymous Coward]

US is still the worst contributor in terms of percentage of GDP. In dollars, EU nations donate more. Also in percentage.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/US Ai d.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Re:The worst hit

[Yazeran]

WRONG!!!

The worst hit will be the ones we never hear about because their whole island has been sweapt clean and noone even knows how many villages was on said islands

Besides Tourists have F*** airplanes comming to evac them out...

Yazeran

Plan: to go to Mars one day with a hammer

And the Indians (or Malaysians)?

[hughk]

Forget the USGS and NOAA. If you drop a large pile of something in the water it will go splash. Therefore, you can extrapolate from a major earthquake in a body of water that there will very probably be a tsunami.

The things is that although the affected countries may not have government organisations for this (although Indonesia definitely should as it sits on an active plate boundary), they have universities and some must have geology or geophysics departments with working seismologists.

Re:And the Indians (or Malaysians)?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Forget the USGS and NOAA. If you drop a large pile of something in the water it will go splash. Therefore, you can extrapolate from a major earthquake in a body of water that there will very probably be a tsunami."

Yeah, see, that usually happens in the South Pacific, not in the Indian ocean. It's been more than 100 years since there was any problem like this in the Indian ocean. It would have been nice to have sensors on the bottom of the ocean to detect tidal waves, but a couple of those costs millions of dollars. For a region with plenty of other important items to spend money on protecting against such an infrequent event was not a priority.

Oh there was an earthquake, they should have known there would be a tidal wave? The quake was first measured at 8.0 - small enough that a tidal wave was not the widespread danger that it ended up being. The quake wasn't revised up to 9.0 until later (the richter scale being logrithmic, this small difference is a big deal).

It's terrible that it happened, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for not being ready.

Centuries or millenia ago this sort of thing made civilizations simply dissapear from the earth. I'm thankful for the amount of aid that is available today. Tens of millions of dollars have already been sent by the USA, and I imagine money is coming from other nations as well. Currently the infrastructure is not in place to even move aid into the country fast enough (as fast as it has been made available). Of course it isn't, how could it be? It would be nice to be more organized, more prepared, but a week ago it wouldn't have even been the first thing to wish for in the area.

All of this according to the NPR news items I heard about in my car on the way to work.

what does "intent" mean to you

[circletimessquare]

i kill 2 children on a schoolbus on purpose, planning to do it for months, and i am proud of the fact after i do it

versus

i kill 10 children on a schoolbus by accident, rushing medical supplies somewhere, and i am saddened of the fact after i do it and try to make amends

learn what the word "intent" means, and how it should inform judgment (but obviously doesn't inform yours) and then get back to me

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[Troed]

Go read my link again - and check the date. Now check whether the US is still using DU-weapons.

Are you really this thick - or are you trolling?

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[Anonymous Coward]

Well of course he is trolling, having an argument for the sake of argument and then trying to win that argument. He never seems to actually discuss on anything or exchange ideas just trying to shout loudest. And I say he is pretty good at it, I wonder if slashdot is his other shrink kuro5hin being the other.

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[Anonymous Coward]

I intend to shoot you but somebody is standing between us. I shoot through him because my GUN IS MASSIVE. I succeed!

OMG i didn't INTEND to shoot the John Doe standing there. So it is OK!

So logically, end justifies nto ONLY the means but also all of the UNFORESEEN consequences.

Welcome fanaticism.

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[AndreyF]

i kill 10 children on a schoolbus by accident, rushing medical supplies somewhere, and i am saddened of the fact after i do it and try to make amends

The truth would be closer to... I'm on my way to making lots and lots of money, ram into a schoolbus full of children because I don't give a shit, and play on people's fears and emotions of their loss of 2 children (killed by fanatics created last time I was killing kids in school busses around here) to convince them that the kids in the schoolbusses are worth killing, since "rushing medical supplies somewhere" not only makes me (and my friends) a lot of money, but is 'good' (because God said so).

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[CmdrGravy]

Either way you are still charged with dangerous driving or manslaughter and have to face the consequences of your actions - not your intentions.

Re:what does "intent" mean to you

[Kelson]

First degree murder and manslaughter are different crimes, treated differently, with different sentencing guidelines, precisely *because* of intent.

the us geo survey knew

[Anonymous Coward]

according to BBC the US geo survey knew of the danger "but didnt know who to call in sri lanka". which i find hard to believe.

anyone from US geo survey know what really happened?

on an unrelated note, i wonder if we will have a wordlwide minute's silence a la 9/11. somehow i doubt it. what we really need is a minutes silence every day for the thousands who die for want of clean water or a meal.

on another unrelated note, i was touched by arthur c clarke's list of priorities in this report. missing staff coming somewhere down the list after scuba gear and boats.

Re:the us geo survey knew

[The Breeze]

They called the State Department, who called someone else, and before they could contact the right people, it was too late. Without pre-existing channels, there's no way to evacuate people on only 2-3 hours notice.

As one news site that took the trouble to research it reported, "imagine you're the manager of a TV station and you get a strange phone call from an accented voice telling you that you have an hour before a giant wave of water wipes out your city - especially when it hasn't happened for over a century. What do you do?"

The sheer lack of precedence worked against them here. It didn't help that no one in the affected countries had any real idea of the magnitude of the threat. Anyone who has worked with a large organization knows how hard it is to communicate such an idea in only an hour or two - and have that communication translated into effective action.

Re:the us geo survey knew

[jayrtfm]

A station with thoughtful, accurate reporting? thats rare, which station is it? do you have a link to their story?

Hope?

[Albinofrenchy]

Although I don't think anything could be worth such a devastating loss of life, this does bear looking at:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News /2004/12/28/799199-sun.html

Perhaps this will foster even better relations between two traditionally warring countries.
On an American related note, does it seem to anyone else that the President should make a press announcement and commit to help? All I've seen so far is Duffy making some promises, but no details.

Re:Hope?

[Anonymous Coward]

President Bush did make such an announcement and commitment. I heard about that right along with the news of the tsunami.

Depending upon its political views, however, your local press may not be inclined to report on that.

Re:Hope?

[Albinofrenchy]

I don't watch the local news, too depressing.

The closest to an announcement he has made was the letters of condolence. Other than that, it seems whitehouse spokesman Duffy has been doing the talking.

The commitment of 15 million is less than half of what the Europeans are sending.

The administration point was secondary. I was more annoyed that clearing brush from his ranch was more important to Bush. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=36527 3)

I'm more interested in what people think this will do for Pakistan-India relations. Especially from people from either of those countries who have a better sense of it.

I'm glad...

[citizenklaw]

Clarke is alive. He's a great writer and guy, who has lived a great life. It would be a shame that his life would be snuffed quickly in a natural disaster. Still, he must feel terrible for his fellow citizens. This is by far worse than 9/11. Leave it to American bigotry to downplay it. Anyone knows when and through who one can make donations? Please post URL's! My prayers to all the noble persons that have lost family in this tragedy. May {$deity} rest their souls in peace.

Re:I'm glad...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am American and have prayed every night for the unfortunate people. I have also donated what little money i have. Lets all pray

Re:I'm glad...

[citizenklaw]

Actually I wasn't talking about individuals. I was talking about media. When this is happening some media outlets still bitch and moan about Iraq. The US should pull from Iraq and go there and help.

True story

[Grandmasta]

The son of a friend of the family we know through business recently got married; he and his new wife chose, for their honeymoon, to visit ... well, one of the countries that were hit on Sunday. I'd have to ask. From what I understand, the morning of the quake, he decided to go hiking up in the mountains or some such. She, on the other hand, went to the beach. Nobody's heard from her since.

deaths now estimated to rise to 45,000

[Anonymous Coward]

45,000 deaths estimated:
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041228/1/3pin6.html

Re:deaths now estimated to rise to 45,000

[Anonymous Coward]

If the number reaches 50,000 im going to jab myself in the eye out of grief

Re:deaths now estimated to rise to 45,000

[Anonymous Coward]

What would that achieve?

Re:deaths now estimated to rise to 45,000

[AndreyF]

I call 65-70k by the end of the week.

Disaster tech?

[hughk]

One of the big problems with such disasters is identifying the victims, particularly when there are so many tourists involved and complete communities destroyed.

One wonders what tech is available to help people be identified. Whilst I realise that priority must be given to the living, it is still important to be able to trace who has died, or who is stuck unable to communicate in a hospital somewhere.

In my understanding, this was no 9/11 so bodies were usually intact (death through drowning or collision with debris). Eventually the bodies may be identified, but by then the people may have been missing for months. Clearly there is use for some kind of system to allow the information to be spread around so that people may be identified.

Re:Disaster tech?

[afeeney]

One problem might be that with bodies rotting so quickly in the heat and waterlogged conditions, mass burials are necessary and time might not allow for immediate identification. Possibly they might take some samples for later DNA testing?

Technology could also come into play much later, should forensics experts come back to identify bodies in those mass graves for individual burials.

Just guesses--I have absolutely no experience or expert knowledge.

Re:Disaster tech?

[hughk]

Samples can be taken and even photos are made. The problem is to make the information available widely. The issue is to be able to do this across fairly poor links.

ah, i understand now

[circletimessquare]

the people in the middle east are not real people, with their own dreams and responsibilities

the people in the middle east, with thousands of years of history, are simply carboard cut out reflections of american actions, a country with 200 years of history

and so when bin laden kills thousands of my own countrymen, i should say "well, we gave him a stinger missile in 1984 to fight the soviets, so clearly, everything he does is our fault 100%, and so i should just yawn"

let me tap you with a cluebat:

the problem that is al qaeda is the fruit of the entire middle east, not one country

therefore, the solution to al qaeda is the democratization of the entire middle east

iraq is but the first step

syria and iran will fall peacefully to democracy given the example of next door iraq, or they will also fall by the sword should another event of the magnitude of 9/11 strike american soil at the hands of fundamentalist terrorists again

what gives me the right to invade these countries?

9/11 does

i see you protesting on the streets when the usa invades iraq to grow democracy, but i don't see you demonstrating on the streets when fundamentalist crusaders invade the usa to kill innocents by surprise, on purpose

interesting intellectual honesty you have there

the actions of a secular democracy, fighting fascism and fundamentalism that breeds madmen that visit american soil, are not comparable to that of fundamentalist crusaders

are they in your mind?

that you think that what happened in 9/11 is somehow the fault of the usa, merely means that you are hold the united states in very high regard, and that you hold middle easterners in contempt: according to you, everything that happens in the world traces back to the usa, and nothing original ever can come from the minds of middle easterners?

onyl americans are cpaable of original sin?

meanwhile, i posit that iraqis are my equal, and that americans should die so that they someday can have freedom of political expression, and the peace and prosperity that goes with that, is an honor

Re:ah, i understand now

[Troed]

what gives me the right to invade these countries?
9/11 does

Paraphrased as: "What gives me the right to kill americans? American actions in my country does" - bin Laden

You do realise that "Allah akhbar" and "God bless America" mean the same thing - and references the _same_ god?

Probably not. You don't seem to know much at all about the world.

Re:ah, i understand now

[CmdrGravy]

You seem to be implying that I somehow don't care about all the people who died in 9/11 and you think the reason I don't care is because of my over powering hatred of the US ? Obviously that is complete rubbish and makes about as much sense as the rest of your post does.

When a terrorist organisation carries out an attack on the scale of 9/11 and you realise that these terrorists are largely the same people your country was funding, arming and training in the recent past you should be considering the truth that actions have consequences and sometimes knee jerk reactions influenced by badly thought out morally guided policies are not necessarily a good thing in the long term.

The kind of terrorism espoused by Osama Bin Laden is terrorism which has no sympathy from any country anywhere - virtually nowhere is hard line enough for their fundamentalist policies, before the US became the main target they were targetting other Middle Eastern countries. It is largely because they were so ineffective at gaining any kind of popular support with their actions there that they decided they may get more support by attacking the US.

Had the US simply channelled their resources and power into getting rid of the actual terrorists themselves then everyone would be be applauding loudly and thinking the US is next best thing since sliced bread.

Instead the US administration have used "Global Terrorism" as the next big Evil against which the US can fight and are less interested in actually doing anything about terrorism as using it as an excuse to flex it's muscles and continue it's Cold War policies to build a more powerful, stronger government machine.

The main thing the Iraqui invasion has achieved with respect to global terrorism is the creation of many more terrorists and a massive increase in the popular support in the Islamic world.

From your post I can't really see what it is you are trying to say except that it is probably a good idea to force the entire Middle East to Americas will and some crap about "original sin". Possibly you are also saying that the US is justified in doing what it likes so long as it suits the US. You really need to wake up and mayeb try to think for yourself a little, learning how to do up your shoelaces would probably be a good start for you.

Re:ah, i understand now

[Politburo]

what gives me the right to invade these countries? 9/11 does

Damn, you've become quite a good troll now, haven't you?

Re:ah, i understand now

[Anonymous Coward]

Allah and Yaweh are not the same god. Yaweh, or God rendered in english, is the god that according to the Torah was worshiped by Abrahem, Allah is a traditional god of Mohhamed's tribe.

Re:ah, i understand now

[Troed]

*beep*, you fail. Please study before posting.

Conspiracy Anyone ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuke Test under the Ocean to study the effects

depleted uranium?

[circletimessquare]

is that as toxic as airplane fuel burning in an office tower?

Re:depleted uranium?

[Troed]

No, and you're an idiot for asking. American weapons are killing MILLIONS of newly born and unborn Iraqi babies - how the f*ck does your twisted mind work trying to compare this to the deaths of 2900-something adults.

People like you are the reason you have no problems finding people who'll gladly work against the USA.

Re:depleted uranium?

[oudzeeman]

I'm no fan of the Iraq war (or Shrub) but you are full of bullshit. Millions of newly born and unborn Iraqi babies are not dying. In fact, the DU munitions are probably more dangerous to the soldiers using firng them (from airborne particles).

Re:depleted uranium?

[Troed]

Similar symptoms have occurred, in Kuwait and are proliferating. It is believed that in Iraq, 250,000 men, women, and children may have been affected. The death rate is high A study carried out in 1993 by three American scientists estimated that about 50,000 Iraqi children had already died during the first eight months after the Gulf War from the detrimental effects of DU projectiles.

link

50000 - in eight months - after the _first_ war. More DU-weapons were used in the second. Most effects are long term and show up several years later.

Before you accuse someone of "bullshit" - at least use Google. That way you'll avoid coming across as a total idiot.

i see it like this

[circletimessquare]

in a world where 9/11 is possible, we are already at rock bottom

you correctly point out the risk of us actions in iraq of creating madmen

i say to you in reply that the risks are still palatable, because you have to consider the alternative: inaction

and inaction carries probably even more risk of madmen being created instead of doctors and lawyers

Re:i see it like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really think in binary ? Good/Evil, Action/Inaction.

Maybe it's because you only have two brain cells.

How about you consider the alternative of the action you have taken as being not inaction but a different kind of action ?

You can read the replies to the rest of your nonsense to get some idea of what that alternative action may have been and how it would be better than the action which was taken.

what is bin laden fighting for?

[circletimessquare]

what is bush fighting for?

what do the answers to those two questions mean to you?

you need to learn what the word "intent" means

Re:what is bin laden fighting for?

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: What is Bin Laden fighting for ?
A: To defeat global "Evil" and gain support and recognition of the fundamentalist hard line Islamic terrorists as the main force of "Good" in the world.

Q: What is Bush fighting for ?
A: To defeat global "Evil" and gain support and recognition for America's postion as the main force of world "Good".

Re:what is bin laden fighting for?

[bani]

in bin laden's own words:

to overthrow all non islamic governments (non islamic to include such "apostates" as shia muslims), kill all jews and convert everyone else to islam at gunpoint. atheists are high up on bin laden's shit list too, all atheists are marked for death. iirc all hindus must die too, since they're polytheists.

the extremely religiously conservative authoritarian saudi government - a human rights nightmare to westerners - is considered a decadent, liberal cesspool by bin laden. just so you have a basis for comparison.

want to know what bin laden is fighting for? to turn the entire world into an islamic state, ruled by something like the taliban.

Is A.C. Clarke really OK, or is he just KIDding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fans of Clarke's popular novel, Rendezvous With Rama, should be alert for a double-entendre.

"Rama" is also a very common boy's name in Sri Lanka.

Seriously, though, I think we are all glad he's OK.

Despite the disaster Sri Lanka refuses aid..

[Anonymous Coward]

Millions suffer while idiot regimes play their stupid political games..

"A 150-member Israeli aid delegation canceled its mission to Sri Lanka on Tuesday, after the country - one of the hardest hit in the Asian tsunami disaster - refused to accept the Israeli team, Israel Defense Forces officials said."

haaretz.com

I can only imagine how the people affected might feel if they ever heard of things like this.. their government turning away life saving aid..

what part of

[circletimessquare]

"it is most important to remember that thousands died needlessly in this event" in my original post did you miss?

hint: look at the words "most important"

similar usage of thosee words: "the US response to the tragedy is the most important thing" that you quote above

work out the inconsistency, i have faith in you

i await an apology

Public Health

[The Tyro]

I have to disagree... anyone who stays in a disaster area like that will be at risk, tourist or native.

Never underestimate what simple public health measures like garbage collection and sanitation do for you. Without working water treatment and sewage systems, the remaining residents will use whatever is handy. Ditches get turned into open sewers, and people drink whatever water they can find.

You want to see a recipe for the rapid spread of disease? Try a nice warm environment, no potable water, and open sewers. Now add no power for refrigeration, and accumulated garbage with all the rodents/vermin that attracts. With the rodents come other animals to prey on them (like snakes... many of which were probably displaced by the rising water)...

Bottom line: Most of that area should be evacuated of non-essential personnel. Let the DMAT and disaster-response types do what they do best.

what does "intent" mean to you

[circletimessquare]

i kill 2 children on a schoolbus on purpose, planning to do it for months, and i am proud of the fact after i do it

versus

i kill 10 children on a schoolbus by accident, rushing medical supplies somewhere, and i am saddened of the fact after i do it and try to make amends

learn what the word "intent" means, and how it should inform judgment (but obviously doesn't inform yours) and then get back to me

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

I found the statement a little right of center.

Re:The worst hit

[eggstasy]

Does your witty one-liner do any better?

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

i totally agree. All those ignorant AMERICAN tourists deserve to die the worst deaths.

Why are Europeans helping out more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a good news story:

America, the Great Santa

Did you know the U.N. is building a new headquarters, at the cost of US$1.3 billion? Where is the outrage?

Here is a news story on the Iran earthquake, also long since forgotten:

"Long Live Israel, Long Live America"

Re:The worst hit

[tomrud]

> "What have you lost, little men? Two suitcases of clothes and a digital camera???"

- Four childs lost their parents.
- One man lost his wife and his four year old doughter
- One newly married man lost his pregnant wife.

Here in Sweden theese kind of reports goes on and on. Still 1600 swedes are missing, and if you live here there is a good chance that you know someone on vacation in Thailand. They say about 20.000 swedes were on vacation there, thats about 0.2% of our population. On every office and workplace now we are counting in: Are those we know there safe or are they still missing.

In Sweden everybody has been chocked by this, it could well be one of the largets disasters that has hit us.

This will not dimish the sufferings of those who live in the disater areas, they have har times now and hard times to come, but even turists will mourn the loss of loved ones.

there are people who believe...

[circletimessquare]

that the CIA made AIDS on purpose

it's alternately hilarious, and stupefying, what people will believe

so do not be surprised if someone tells you with a straight face that the americans were trying out a new earthquake weapon

Re:there are people who believe...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Well, that would be at the Core of all this wouldn't it.

Sri Lanka Refusing Israeli Aid!

[Anonymous Coward]

News link here.

How can we help these people?

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

what about the old you pathetic worm?

How did most people die?

[AtlanticCarbon]

Drowning? Physical impact of wave? Earthquake? If you're supposed to get in a doorway when there's an earthquake, what are you supposed to do when a tsunami hits anyway?

Re:How did most people die?

[InfiniteWisdom]

Usually the trough hits before the crest, so if you suddenly see water leave the beach, run to higher ground. Unfortunately, tsunamis travel mighty fast (hundreds of miles/hr), so unless you happen to be close to a very strong building or a hill, your chances of survival are bleak.

I suspect people are killed by being drowned if they're trapped underwater indoors, or by being crushed the sheer force of the water or from being smashed into various objects. The water has enough force to throw cars and trucks around, so you have to be extremely luck to get washed into the surge and survive.

Re:How did most people die?

[dr_dank]

If you're supposed to get in a doorway when there's an earthquake, what are you supposed to do when a tsunami hits anyway?

They say you should flee to higher ground, but I don't see how is is possible in such densely populated areas where roads can jam quickly and panic makes it impossible to go anywhere.

merry christmas, Indian Ocean

[geekpuppySEA]

Typical Americans, at most, only care enough to ask "Could this happen to us in America?"

...And to say sensitive things like

"To The People Of Islam:

Just think: If we'd invaded your countries, killed your leaders and converted you to Christianity YOU'D ALL BE OPENING CHRISTMAS PRESENTS RIGHT ABOUT NOW!

Merry Christmas"

That's Ann Coulter for ya, folks. Thankfully she only speaks for half of America... at most

Not a total success

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course this quake was caused by a test of GWB's new counter-terrorism-earthquake-weapon; test seemed to be a total success...

I would not call it a total success. We missed France by about 5000 miles. ;)

Re: preventing disasters

[TheAcousticMotrbiker]

Maybe some people should have remembered Krakatoa cataclism or just simply should have seen Clarke book. Damn, some people should just read to help prevent disasters.

If you look on the ACF website, you'll find this tidbit: (in the projects section)


PROJECT WARN in Partnership with the Japan US Science Technology and Space Applications Program (JUSTSAP)

The purpose of Project Warn is combine enhanced communications and IT systems to provide warning of impending natural or man-made disasters and to provide on-going communications and remote sensing and GIS support during disaster relief operations. The Clarke Foundation is working with the Pacific Disaster Center, the Asian Disaster Mitigation Organization, the United Nations, and the US and Japanese Governments as coordinated through the JUSTSAP organization to carry out a suitable test and demonstration in this area. In particular a simulation and test is being planned in the Pacific Region in 2005 to determine to how to use the latest information and sensing technology more effectively in the advent of that a major Tsunami might impact an Asian country or island. Clarke Foundation personnel are providing technical advice and support on a volunteer basis to this project.

It's a bummer

[Anonymous Coward]

Goodness. No one in their address book? That's a bummer.

So I guess calling information or the local news or another governmental agency and saying something like "THERE'S A BIG HONKING WAVE OF DEATH EMANATING OUTWARD FROM SUMATRA" was just a little too much effort?

Please.

"We don't have contacts in our address book for anybody in that part of the world" doesn't cut it, Mr. McCreery.

Re:It's a bummer

[Overzeetop]

It's called the proper chain of command. If there's no contact point for this kind of information, then there's no quick way to get people to realize the severity. CNN probably saw it on the AP wire and said *yawn
8,"Another earthquake. Jim see if you can run down a 20 second bit for the 10 o'clock news."

Three hours isn't long enough for a warning when there's no efficient mechanism in place for dealing with the event in rapid fashion. Hell, it takes an hour here in my corner of the US for the local TV/radio stations to get school delays/closings up and running when we have an unexpected snow. If Sri Lanka monitored an earthquake off the Atlantic coast of the US, and suspected a possible tidal wave headed for a group of barrier islands in the mid atlantic region, which TV or radio station would you call? I live 400 miles away, and I have no idea. If you did call, and spoke with a heavy accent (you do know all the languages in the world, right?), do you think they'd believe you and put it on the nes immediately? Of course not, they'd try to verify it before they broadcast such a warning. For an area with so few tidal waves, this sounds like a prank call to me.

Unfortunately, it takes a tragedy before those with the means decide it is worth their while to prepare for such disasters. I'm sure that this will spur more countries to create the pathways of communication necessary to mitigate damage in the future.

This is a tragedy, and a terrible one. I agree that it is worse than the 9/11/01 attack - far worse in human loss.

[aside] I believe it is less shocking because natural disasters occur on a fairly regular basis, whereas terrorists flying passenger jets into buildings is crazy. More improtantly, the cameras were rolling when the real tragedy occured - the buildings collaped on/with many occupants. Drama, horror, immediacy. [/aside]

My thoughts and prayers go out to all who have lost loved ones, and I hope that the country can pull together and get the physical damage repaired as soon as possible.

Re:It's a bummer

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. 9/11 was a far worse tragedy in that it killed over 3000 Americans.

Re:It's a bummer

[Anonymous Coward]

who the hell modded this asshole up? Jesus people are horrible. 3000 americans = 60,000+ non americans? oh my god what an asshole.

Re:It's a bummer

[Anonymous Coward]

Wanker

Its always the USA's fault

[Momoru]

If we use our survelance and determine Iraq has WMD's, but then they don't its our fault. Suppose we had sent all kinds of crazy warnings to the people of India and Sri Lanka, and then there was no Tsunami...we would endless hear about how much tourism money the USA had lost for those governments, and how we cry wolf, and it was probably just to distract people away from Iraq.

It's a lose-lose situation for us, because no matter what we do, someone will find fault in it, which is why many people like myself are beginning to think we should withdraw from being so active all over the world and let people sort their own shit out.

Re:Its always the USA's fault

[Anonymous Coward]

Except we didn't use jack shit to find Iraqi WMD. We were going in anyways.

Voted for Bush? Why aren't your boots laced up soldier?

Re:Its always the USA's fault

[Anonymous Coward]

which is why many people like myself are beginning to think we should withdraw from being so active all over the world and let people sort their own shit out.

The whole fucking world has been asking the USa to stop meddling in their affairs for decades.

Is THIS what it takes for stupid Americans to get the hint? Tens of thousands of deaths? The attacks on the WTC and Pentagon weren't enough to give you a clue?

It's amazing. Your arrogance that you think you're helping the world "sort shit out out" - when the world is perfectly capable of that - but US interference has totally gotten in the way of that. the US won't allow self-determination or sorting out our own shit.

But you have to feel superior even now, thinking you are withdrawing your generous charity, rather than finally getting out of the fucking way.

There is a much worse Tsunami impending for USA

[GuyFawkes]

I forget the exact details, but there is a MASSIVE mountainside in the canaries, which are just the sticky out above the surface bits of FAR larger undersea mounts, that is very unstable and waiting to slip.

This slip is in a sense like the NASA tracked 2004 MN4 in that nobody knows WHEN it will happen, but unlike it in that it WILL happen as there is no way for it to miss.

From my recollection the waves, when they hit the eastern US seaboard, will be much higher than the indian ocean event, due to the mass of water displaced by the falling mountainside, I believe wave heights of 100 feet were mentioned, and flatlands like florida being scoured as far inland as orlando etc... deaths would probably total millions, not tens of thousands.

Re:There is a much worse Tsunami impending for USA

[jergh]

There is a reference to this theory in a CNN article, talking about "a wall of water more than 164 feet high" hitting the U.S. east coast.

Don't panic.

But other researchers in Britain discounted the prediction as the product of a speculative computer model. They said that over the last 200,000 years there had been only two huge landslides on the flanks of the Canary Islands and that there was geologic evidence indicating the slides broke up and fell into the sea in bits instead of one big whoosh.

Who are you gonna call

[TheAcousticMotrbiker]

Oddly enough, the Arthur C Clarke Foundation is actually working on just that. Setting up an alert system for Tsunamis:

http://www.clarkefoundation.org/projects

PROJECT WARN in Partnership with the Japan US Science Technology and Space Applications Program (JUSTSAP)

The purpose of Project Warn is combine enhanced communications and IT systems to provide warning of impending natural or man-made disasters and to provide on-going communications and remote sensing and GIS support during disaster relief operations. The Clarke Foundation is working with the Pacific Disaster Center, the Asian Disaster Mitigation Organization, the United Nations, and the US and Japanese Governments as coordinated through the JUSTSAP organization to carry out a suitable test and demonstration in this area. In particular a simulation and test is being planned in the Pacific Region in 2005 to determine to how to use the latest information and sensing technology more effectively in the advent of that a major Tsunami might impact an Asian country or island. Clarke Foundation personnel are providing technical advice and support on a volunteer basis to this project.

Re:Who are you gonna call

[Anonymous Coward]

This is more thank likely to be utter bullshit.

Where do you even mention a reference that could confirm that this so-called "project" was not added simply in the last few days, and that it is not just yet another new HTML page on Clarke's from the want-to-make-my-wishful-thinking-ideas-sound-like- a-real-project department.

Just show me one reference to this 'project' that is dated from BEFORE this natural disaster!

Found the reference

[GuyFawkes]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/ne ws/2001/08/29/nwave29.xml

BRITAIN faces a natural disaster that will flatten the Atlantic coastline for several miles inland, a scientist predicted yesterday.

A massive landslide caused by a volcanic eruption in the Canary Islands would create a giant wave that would hit the coast at up to 500mph.

The largest mega-tsunami ever seen would be generated when an eruption of Cumbre Vieja on the island of La Palma caused a part of a mountain twice the size of the Isle of Man to plunge into the Atlantic.

"The first impact will be when 330ft waves crash into the west Saharan coast of Morocco," said Simon Day, of the Benfield Greig hazard research centre at University College London.

"It is not a question of if it will happen, only when it will happen. It could be in the next few decades; it could be hundreds of years hence."

Devastation from the tsunami was also highly likely in Florida, Brazil and the Caribbean. There the wave would reach heights of 130ft to 164ft - higher than Nelson's column - and could sweep four and a half miles inland.

Dr Day said: "It is a geologically definite process, a bit like a pressure cooker, with the volcano heating up the ground water and pressure building up inside the mountain."

In 1949 the mountain moved 12ft in two days, but the disaster waiting to happen would be much greater, according to Dr Day's report, published in Geophysical Research Letters.

The collapse of the mountain on the west of Cumbre Vieja would release enough energy, equivalent to the electricity consumption of America in six months, to generate a wave more than half a mile high and tens of miles long.

This would collapse and rebound on the Canaries. As the landslide continued to move underwater, a series of waves would develop, creating enormous surges all over the Atlantic.

"After only 10 minutes, the tsunami will have moved more than 150 miles," Dr Day said. It would reach America in little more than six hours.

There have been at least 11 tsunamis in the past 200,000 years, one of which wiped out Minoan civilisation on Crete.

The largest recorded wave to hit Britain was the Lisbo tsunami of 1755, when 12ft seas pounded Cornwall.

About 7,000 years ago, the Storegga tsunami, caused by a landslide off Norway, deposited silt several miles inland in northern Scotland.

"When the wave from the Canaries reaches Britain, it could be as high as the Storegga, which may have been up to 60ft," Dr Day said.

"It is difficult to know how far the ramifications will go. We should be looking at the doomed civilisation of Crete when assessing the effects."

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=canary+is la nds+mountain+landslide+tsunami&spell=1

just remember folks...

[bani]

...everything bad that happens anywhere in the entire world can be blamed on americans, even tsunamis.

Re:just remember folks...

[pgilman]

"...everything bad that happens anywhere in the entire world can be blamed on americans, even tsunamis."

this faux persecution complex is disingenuous and at least as bogus as the nonexistent phenomenon it purports to illustrate.

it's a very weak combination of a straw man (someone is blaming everything on americans) and an appeal to pity (poor persecuted americans!). the poster's motive is a mystery, but this drivel is most certainly not insightful.

Re:just remember folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was the USGS that was the first to shout You are incompetent, you could have moved these people out faster, you could have known these things were coming!

So you see the obvious response, if you knew it was coming, why didn't you warn us? This is not anti-American, this is a response to very gross words by a US gov organisation.

Re:just remember folks...

[Anonymous Coward]

the usgs did try to warn them, but their warnings were ignored.

and the response is 'yah well you should have tried harder'. um what? short of forcing the governments at gunpoint to warn their population, there is nothing more that could have been done. they ignored the warnings and this is what happened.

Re:just remember folks...

[Kehvarl]

"Poor persecuted Americans" ? What makes you think that we mind being blamed for everything? Don't tell me all the whining and bitching about it really fooled you.

I can assure you, as an American citizen, that for the most part we actually don't care enough to mind being blamed for any and everything nder the sun. If we did, I'm sure our esteemed leaders would see to it that the next round of television series and consumer products distracted us and helped increase our apathy.

So, feel free to blame us. feel pity if you want, but for the most part we won't care about that any more than we care about anything else that won't affect us within the next five minutes.

Either that or it's just me and the rest of the Americans are actually decent human beings.

Re:just remember folks...

[grotgrot]

Actually global warming is a global problem, and is making global weather less predictable. You'll find the US near the top of most lists of the various ways of contributing to the problem, and also trying to avoid doing anything about it.

Re:just remember folks...

[Psion]

The tsunami was caused by an earthquake, not global warming.

Re:just remember folks...

[kindbud]

Spare us the poor, misunderstood American "victim" routine.

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

8 of them were americans. hundreds of them were european.

Please donate to help prevent disease breakout!

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a good chance that after an event like that that disease can breakout in the chaos due to dodgy water supplies and lack of services. I gave a bunch of the money I got for Christmas to help these people who have had their lives destroyed so suddenly and you can do the same and not waste it on things you don't need at after Christmas sales!
Go to www.redcross.org.au or http://www.redcross.org.uk/news_subsection.asp?id= 40238 .
It seems the American Red Cross hasn't yet started an appeal.

Re:The worst hit

[cocotoni]

These reports are not limited to Sweden. They are present everywhere. I too have a friend that left for Sri Lanka just 5 days ago for a wedding of a friend. I don't know what happened to him. I hope he is safe.

You will notice that in my previous post I did mention the people that lost their loved ones. That was a part of the list of people I mentioned:

Sorry to disagree with you, but worst hit would be the natives that will stay there to face all the conseqences of the disaster, people that have lost everything they had, people that have lost their loved ones.

What irked me was this ONE man (you can probably see him in the report on Euronews if you have it available in Sweden) that was complaining about his lost belongings. This is the "little man" I was talking about.

And in proportion, even 20,000 Swedes or 10,000 British or 10,000 Germans that were in the region (and by reports about 10% of those are not yet reached), even though tragic stories, are puny to millions of natives present, tens of thousands killed, million displaced, whole nation of Maldives sweapt, risk of desease for numerous natives that will remain there, and the whole livelyhood of people, the whole economies destroyed in matter of minutes.

The tourists will be found, evacuated to their home countries, and by next Christmas forget about the whole thing. But people will stay there to cope with the devastation and try to rebuild their lives in the years to come.

And I commend Sweden for the prompt and heavy donation to the relief funds. Unfortunately, some countries with similar numbers of their nationals involved, but with much greater interest in the region than Sweden (and I am not talking about US) have yet to measure.

Re:The worst hit

[The-Bus]

I first thought he said the worst hit would be tourism as I can certainly see a lot of loss of revenue over the next few years possibly. But that's talking in a strictly economic sense and it doesn't compare to ~40,000 people dying. That number is staggering beyond comprehension.

Protip: Do not live along known fault lines

[Vandil X]

I'll probably lose a lot of karma for this, but just like the past summer's hurricane disasters in Florida, people have to realise that there is a price to pay when you choose to live in a natural disaster zone.

If you live near a fault line, you just might be a victim of an earthquake. Period. No surprises here.

Likewise, if you live in a coastal region near a known fault line, you just might be a victim of a tsunami. Period. No surprises here.

I blame the governments of the countries affected for not making it a higher priority to institute a monitoring/early-warning system for the Indian Ocean. The Japanese, Australians and other countries of the Pacific Ocean have had one in place for years.

Re:Protip: Do not live along known fault lines

[teg]

I'll probably lose a lot of karma for this, but just like the past summer's hurricane disasters in Florida, people have to realise that there is a price to pay when you choose to live in a natural disaster zone.

A couple of issues:

1. Tsunamis aren't a regular occurence here. And the earthquake was in the top 5 list since 1900. The combination... fatal. People are so unused to it that no warning system was in place, and that when the water disappeared just before the big hit, people went down to the beach to catch fish.
2. People in this region have less knowledge and choices available to them than people living in or moving to Florida.

Your points definitely apply to Florida (hurricanes) and California (earth quakes), though.

Re:Protip: Do not live along known fault lines

[kalidasa]

Most of these people lived hundreds, or even thousands, of miles from the epicenter. If we were to apply your rule in this case, we had better all get up into orbital colonies, because we all live within a few thousand miles of a potential 9.0 quake.

Re:Protip: Do not live along known fault lines

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's a little harder for people living of fishing to live elsewhere than on a coastal region, don't you think?

And maybe people of these regions don't have the same possibility to choose where to live than most US citizens?

Re:Protip: Do not live along known fault lines

[Picass0]

Exactly where on the planet should a person move to stay away from all dangerous geological and weather phenomena?

Try to answer, if you really think there is such a place.

so he survived

[Webspit]

I've always thought that there was something a little odd about this chap ... certainly not what I'd call a reliable reporter. I think some fairly searching questions were asked a few years ago about quite why he lived in Sri Lanka - not so much a sex tourist as a sex exile I think was the substance of the allegations which to me fitted in with his fiction which I've always thought rather creepy.

Re:so he survived

[Anonymous Coward]

Clarke is friends with a guy named Dr. Michael Snowden, a known pedo. Snowden is an astronomer, also calls Sri Lanka home.

Re:so he survived

[Anonymous Coward]

Arthur C. Clarke

Wrote 2001 and other bits of science fiction, came up with geostationary satellites and space elevators. Has been knighted, and I believe is considered by Sri Lanka to be a national treasure. According to wiki there was a pedophilia charge against him which was dismissed in 2000 as bogus.

L. Ron Hubbard and Robert A. Heinlein were creepy and bad (LRH = scientology, RAH = stories where the old know-it-all lives with a mess of pretty women none of whome have any sexual inhibitions) as well as crappy writers, but that's just my opinion.

Arthur C. Clarke however, from my limited knowledge, is 'OK'.

Re:so he survived

[oftheapes]

yeah ACC is just gross...f*ck him, even if he is the inventor of the communications satellite

CircleTimesSquare is ALWAYS illogical

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a kook from kuro5hin. He's always going on and on about how "unfair" the world is to the USA. Any story about literally anything will be spun into "wah, they're picking on the USA".

Look at his posting history on Slashdot. Basically nothing until today. Then dozens of posts all on this single article. All of them complaining that the USA will be picked on.

He's a nutcase. Ignore him. We ignore him over at Kuro5hin.

Re:CircleTimesSquare is ALWAYS illogical

[squiggleslash]

He's posted 1,068 (at the last count) postings on Slashdot. He's posted a lot today which is why the "Latest 24 of 1068 Comments" are mostly on this subject.

He may or may not be a kook, but this kind of incorrect ad-hominem doesn't exactly help rational discourse. Unfortunately, while he may have a "persecution complex", he does represent a significant minority in the US. Blame it on two things - the fact that most ordinary Americans do have pure motives when it comes to supporting their countries "foreign interventions" and are prone to confuse their wish for good with the real causes and effects of their administration's actions; and the fact that much of (not all, but a signficant amount) the criticism of the US from outside the US is obnoxious, unfair, and absurd.

Re:The worst hit

[CrazyTalk]

Sorry to disagree with YOU, but dead tourists are worse off than the natives that have lost everything (except their lives)

But the catch is ... he's got insurance

[adzoox]

The real answer here is ... he's got insurance. This is almost a blessing because you can be assured that all "this dive equipment and submarine stuff" is insured for full replacement value. He just managed to reoutfit with the latest and greatest technology.

The real question is ... since he lives in the area .... how much is he helping his neighbor and how much money and workforce will he dontae to those that are homeless and now beyond being in debt because their means of living have been destroyed?

Re:But the catch is ... he's got insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh boy! I bet Mr. Clarke will continue to help poor families out financially. By paying them to let him spend time with their young boys.

Re:But the catch is ... he's got insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't even remotely understand this ... are you referring to Micheal Jackson?

Re:But the catch is ... he's got insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

When exactly did insurances begin to cover Acts of God aka natural disasters?

Among those going to benefit from this will be a number of lawyers.

Re:But the catch is ... he's got insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Any wealthy person living on the coast is going to have the coverage.

Nothing compares to the Nov 1970 typhoon

[gelfling]

On Nov 13 1970 a typhoon driven storm surge killed 500,000 people in Bangladesh and in April 1991 another killed 140,000. While this is a bad event and a highly unsusal one it pales compared to that.

And I will add that reports in Sri Lanka are coming back that thousands of people flocked TO THE BEACH to watch the storm surge because it was so unusual. It's HIGHLY UNLIKELY that an early warning system would have saved very many people.

Re:Nothing compares to the Nov 1970 typhoon

[kongjie]

You're confusing things here. There was no storm surge because there was no storm. It wasn't like the goobers in Florida etc who go to the beach during a hurricane. People had no indication that there was anything going on, so when some heavier wave activity was reported, word spread and people went to see. Waves are fascinating to watch. You're inferring that these people were tempting fate, and they weren't. They didn't know a devastating earthquake had occured underwater.

Furthermore, you have no right to suggest that an early warning system wouldn't have helped. In many cases people didn't have far to go inland to reach safe ground. And at very least swimmers could have gotten out of the water. Sure, there would have been the usual percentage of dumb people who ignore warnings. But many deaths could have been avoided.

Re:Nothing compares to the Nov 1970 typhoon

[gelfling]

They weren't 'tempting fate'. neither were they fully aware of what it COULD do. It's very much the same as those poor slobs who refused to get off Mt. St. Helens. When something almost never occurs, when it does, people don't really become alarmed enough. This is why early warning might be a boondoggle. At supersonic speed, tsunamis only provide a few minutes of early warning anyway. It's not practical or an efficient use of resources to think that in 30 minutes you could clear a beach of 30,000 people while they are all walking TOWARD the water.

Re:Nothing compares to the Nov 1970 typhoon

[kongjie]

Dude, even some of the governments involved have noted that they had an hour. And you could easily clear a beach of 30,000 people in 30 minutes...they probably had a mile to higher ground. It's got NOTHING to do with people on Mt. St. Helens. Why don't you stop trolling? These people had no idea there was an earthquake. The ocean just was acting a bit weird. Give me a break...you can't be serious.

narcissistic

[Martin Spamer]

His whole blog posting smacks of narcissism, he first priority seems to his own safety, then his equipment, and finally the people. He also seem unable to restrain himself from using this disaster to plug one of his books and his own 'foresight'.

Re:narcissistic

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't agree more. His diving equipment and his bungalow were affected, and possibly some of his staff.

Oh, and thousands of little people apparently as well.

That's par for the course for the generation currently in their 60s-80s natch - they're papmered and priveleged into complete narcissism.

Re:narcissistic

[Anonymous Coward]

The man is ancient. Get over yourself.

Quake May Have Altered Earth's Rotation

[TheJavaGuy]

According to the Drudge Report, the quake may have altered earth's eotation // May have shortened the day by 3 microseconds...

Re:Quake May Have Altered Earth's Rotation

[Anonymous Coward]

Being Drudge, you can then guarantee no coincidence with veracity...

Where's Junis when you need him?

[Anonymous Coward]

I half-expected this first-hand account to be filed by Junis.

Re:did you know

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm says the age of consent in Sri Lanka is 16 ...

YOU LIAR!!!

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as they are white, they deserve to die.

ALOO MATAR ACKBAR!!

and now land mines too

[phr1]

From http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3934945

Land Mines Add to Sri Lanka's Misery

Tidal waves that hammered Sri Lanka have uprooted land mines that threaten to kill or maim survivors trying to return home while endangering relief workers, a Unicef official said today.

The tsunami have scattered mines and destroyed warning signs, said Ted Chaiban, the aid agency's Sri Lanka chief.

"Land mines are posing a new risk to Sri Lankans, and to relief efforts," he said. "Mines were floated by the floods and washed out of known mine fields, so now we don't know where they are and the warning signs ... have been swept away or destroyed."

The greatest danger will come when survivors begin to return to their homes, not knowing where the mines are, Chaiban said.

More than 1.5 million mines have been planted across Sri Lanka by the army and Tamil Tiger rebels have been fighting for a separate homeland since 1983.

Re:and now land mines too

[Anonymous Coward]

which btw cover another treaty abandoned by the Bush administration.. the Landmine Ban Treaty
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/02/27 /usint76 84.htm
not to make things anti-US, but just a pointer to yet another reason the issue should be addressed by sane people - landmines apparently float in floodings. beware thus. why not ban them?

Re:and now land mines too

[EvilTwinSkippy]

which btw cover another treaty abandoned by the Bush administration.. the Landmine Ban Treaty http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/02/27/usint76 84.htm not to make things anti-US, but just a pointer to yet another reason the issue should be addressed by sane people - landmines apparently float in floodings. beware thus. why not ban them?

Because they still make up a large part of our defensive perimeter between North and South Korea. The Land Mines are there to slow down advancing columns of North Korean troops.

You asked.

Re:and now land mines too

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the US never signs any treaty that limits war. No nuclear weapon test ban, no intl criminal court, no land mine ban. There are lots of other ways to keep North Korean contained.

Re:and now land mines too

[JackHolloway]

Yeah, the Kellog Briand pact that outlawed war. We did so much good signing that in the 1920s. And the Washington and London Naval Limitations Treaties post WW I. Those really cut down on tensions during the '30s.

WTF???

Arms limitation treaties never work. Period.

And you expect a landmine treaty to be adhered to during any war that lasts more than 6 months??

Lemme sell you a bridge, brother...

Re:and now land mines too

[Anonymous Coward]

Arms limitation treaties never work. Period.

Really? then why were the arms inspections and disarmament so amazingly successful in Iraq, that there was almost no opposition during the last invasion, and no WMDs used as they were in the previous war?

Why was nuclear disarmament taken to by the Soviet Union with such vigor?

There are countless examples of where arms limitations works, making your statement seem idiotic.

An Experience Of Living Through A Tsunami

[Martin Spamer]

A very good friend of mine was holidaying on Phuket Island in Thailand for christmas when the Tsunami hit.

An Experience Of Living Through A Tsunami

Re:The worst hit

[Politburo]

I find that statement a little left of center.

And just what the fuck does that mean?

What does Clark care about more?

[DanielJS]

"Early reports indicate that we have lost most of our diving equipment and boats. Not all our staff members are accounted for - yet." Clark seems to suggest he cares about his boats and diving gear more than his staff.

Irony

[kaalamaadan]

Does anyone on slashdot notice the irony in that whenever India does something wrt science, immediately the flurry of "Why don't they care about their bleeding poor first?" messages come around, and the first thing after a major Tsunami occurs, there are whines of "Why don't they invest in Tsunami warning systems?"- Do Tsunami warning systems come from charity lunches?

Spelling flame

[Anonymous Coward]

If slashdot reported on the status of every prominate [emphasis added] figure during natural disasters we would have a lot more to wade through (no pun or whatever intended).

The word is prominent, not "prominate."

Re:You won't read anything about it...

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

The continued existence of the military base at Diego Garcia really makes me wonder at what humanity can inflict upon itself.
WTF? You need some real perspective. Here's a clue as to what humanity can inflict upon itself, google genocide in Africa, that is something to get your knickers in a twist about, not a base in the Indian Ocean.

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder what makes them deserve death more than you. Can you judge who lives and who dies? Can you give life and create, or are you only capable of the death you blame others for?

hundred times less than seasonal average

[peter303]

The length-of-day (LOD) fluctuates about 2.5 milliseconds during the course of the year. Almost all of the change is attributed to momentum of oceanic storms which change location on a seasonal basis. A quake may cause a minor step change in the baseline. Decade-long trends are attributed to rock flow in the mantle caused by glacial melting rebound and convention cells. The LOD number is an immortant geophysical monitor number.

no, DG is not fine

[Anonymous Coward]

its native inhabitants were forcibly removed by the UK in exchange for a few US weapons, so the US could build a bomber base there.

it is straight up aggression, and invasion of another country. no other word for it.

DG survived due to undersea topography.

[MtViewGuy]

The reason why Diego Garcia survived is the fact that the undersea topography east of the island does not favor the generation of a deadly tsunami. This is because the sea floor drops off percipitously east of the island, which likely prevented the creation of a deadly tsunami that could have swamped the island.

What is The Arthur C. Clarke Foundation?

[Standmic]

I've never heard of the ACCF, so I go to the website and click the "about" link. I get this:

"...the Arthur C. Clarke Foundation represents an endless opportunity to enhance Sir Arthur Clarke's legacy.."

What the heck is that? I know he's a great author and all, but do we need a foundation to enhance his "legacy"?

For all that are interested, I'm going to start The Standmic Foundation. You too can be a member and help enhance my legacy!

Substitute US with Microsoft

[RoshanCat]

And all you slashdotters will be looking in the mirror. Most human beings are hypocrites in the sense that they blame other human beings for the same mistake they perpetuate

i) /. ers complain most users are technical-illiterates. But most don't know how to operate the most popular operating system
ii) /. ers complain older people being techno-paranoid but most have a ludicrously one-sided opinions about RFID's, voting-machines etc
iii) /. ers complain the US can't do anything right but yet most don't even acknowledge the good things Microsoft does

The list goes on and on...

Indonesian Archipelago needs warning system.

[MtViewGuy]

With all the hand-wringing going on we have to ask this question: why hasn't the governments of Indonesia and New Guinea instituted a tsunami warning system that covers the entire Indonesia Archipelago and the Indian Ocean?

People forget that the Indonesian Archipelago sits on one of the world's most geologically-active areas, the Indonesian Subduction Zone just south of the archipelago. As such, Indonesia is very prone to earthquakes and is home to some of the most powerful volcanic eruptions in recorded history (Tambora in 1815 and Krakatoa in 1883) and prehistory (the Toba supervolcano eruption about 75,000 years ago).

The Indonesian and New Guinea governments should have put a tsunami warning system in place after the 1998 tsunami that killed 2,500 people in New Guinea after an undersea earthquake.

Re:Indonesian Archipelago needs warning system.

[Anonymous Coward]

This kind of government usually does not consider saving their civilians a high priority.

Re:Indonesian Archipelago needs warning system.

[MtViewGuy]

This kind of government usually does not consider saving their civilians a high priority.

I have to disagree, for one reason: a tsunami in the Indonesian Archipelago could seriously threaten oil wells and distribution facilities, the #1 source of income for Indonesia. As such, Indonesia should have had such a system in place a long time ago.

political BS warning system activated

[Anonymous Coward]

>but considering the fashionable anti-americanism in the world right now, you can easily see how this tragedy can be spun for political ends

Give me a break. You are the one bringing politics into this. Someone saying "USGS should have called CNN" on the radio != a vast worldwide conspiracy to make America look bad.
I am sitting next to someone who's been on the phone all morning trying to find people in Sri Lanka. And all you can think of is "oh my, those Liberal Media people at the BBC are airing something vaguely critical of a US government institution! This rampant anti-Americanism is way out of hand!"
I realize that your concern for America's image doesn't mean you are indifferent to the human suffering. But you're jumping at the oppurtunity to relate this to your pet cause - you're the one setting off the "political tsunami".

Petra Nemcova, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Babe

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

If slashdot reported on the status of every prominate figure during natural disasters we would have a lot more to wade through (no pun or whatever intended).

Courtesy of Drudge: Jet-setting supermodel Petra Nemcova survived the terrifying Asian tsunami by clinging to the top of a palm tree for eight hours - wincing through the pain of a broken pelvis and haunted by the sight of her boyfriend being swept out to sea.

Photos courtesy of Google.

Re:Petra Nemcova, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Babe

[Anonymous Coward]

that's so awesome that she's available now.

No tsunami warning system in Indian Ocean?

[MtViewGuy]

Actually, I'm very surprised that there is no tsunami warning system for the Indian Ocean.

People are forgetting that Indonesia is on the Indonesian Subduction Zone, one of the world's MOST active geological areas, no contest (Indonesia is well-known for earthquakes and volcanism just like the Pacific Northwest, which is also on a subduction zone). Because of that danger, the Indonesian and New Guines governments should have put in place a tsunami warning system almost as far back as the system put in place for the Pacific Ocean back in the late 1940's!

Re:No tsunami warning system in Indian Ocean?

[pe1chl]

The difference is that these countries do not have the money to spend on such luxury items. Of course they spend money on lots of other unnecessary things, like conflicts, but that is a fact of life.

i am illogical

[circletimessquare]

the main thrust of my argument is that people essentially mean well in the world, and that all human beings are, or should be, equal

that is a statement of faith, not of logic: i am illogical, indeed

and if that is the faith which will fail me in this world, so be it: i would rather go down with that ship than sit in some ivory tower of negativity and inaction and lack of faith in mankind as some do, casting criticism and blame down on the heads of those of us slogging in the mud, actively trying to make things better

i am, indeed, as you suggest a "true believer": i honestly believe in the essentially sound, liberal and progressive nature of fighting fascism and fundamentalism in the middle east, with force, if necessary, as something which will uplift a region mired in socioeconomic, geopolitical, and theohistoric difficulties which make boys who would otherwise be doctors and lawyers, become madmen instead

i honestly believe that american blood and lives are being spilt right now so that someday iraqis can be free, and i am DAMN proud of that

and i have heard all the negativity, all of the cold war recriminations, all of the conspiracy theories, all of the tenuous chains of cause and effect and blame, whereby 9/11 is the fault of americans and we should just shut up, and take it

and i have plowed through mountains of that crap here, and on kuro5hin, for years now, and my faith has not budged, one inch... no in fact, after digging to the bottom of every rationale i have encountered counter to what i think, my faith has only been bolstered and reinvigorated by the essential hopelessness of those i argue with

and that no matter what bullshit wmd reasons bush the moron (bush really is a moron) gives the world for his actions, the effect of his actions is that an entire country moves from fascism to political freedom under his tutelage

so yes, bush is a "useful fool", as bin laden might say

i am a useful fool myself

so all of you who despise me, all of you think i am a deluded fool, a pawn, then understand this about the part of america you just can't understand: one well-meaning fool means a million times more in this world than a hundred million geniuses who use their intelligence to do nothing but trap their morality and their compassion and thier human conscience in a wall of inaction

human history is not a series of predetermined trends as laid out in a dry textbook

human history is populated with human beings, who have free will, and CHOOSE their destiny and the shape of their world

and that is EXACTLY what america is doing when confronted with the carnage of 9/11

i am, indeed, a well-meaning fool

and i am damn proud of it

and i know i mean so much more to history than all of you smart, negative, doubting useless criticizers who cannot offer one tiny shred of any superior workable plan of aciton in this world

i am a fool who believes in the essential goodwill of mankind and the equality of all mankind

and who are my rhetorical enemies here and elsewhere?

those who believe in negativity: no action can actually improve the state of the world, and those who believe in the immoveability of inequality: iraqis, for example "just aren't ready for democracy"

BULLSHIT

what kind of condescending, patronizing, soft racism is that?

iraqis are my equal, and i am honored that my fellow americans are dying for their future: out of the horror that is 9/11, let a tie be born between two people to reassert the basic goodwill of all mankind... that some of your demented brethren from the middle east should kill my brothers and sisters, add i respond by freeing you from political tyranny

and that makes me more cosmopolitan, and more liberal, and more progressive in thought and action than a million of these so-called punitive useless so-called liberals in this world, liberal in default classification, but not in spirit, like me

history is watching,

Re:i am illogical

[mashx]

fighting fascism and fundamentalism in the middle east, with force, if necessary

The problem for a lot of non-Americans, is that they want to fight the 'fascism and fundamentalism' that they see in the US as well as that in the Middle East. Just as you will be the first to counter that argument by saying this corresponds to only 'part' of America, so the same rationale can be used to say it is only part of the Middle-East. Perhaps it is (some of) those in power in the Middle East that propel this fascism, but are you really so sure that isn't the case in the US? And from some of the rhetoric that comes out of the US (especially the 'inner-circle' of Neo-Cons in power at the moment), it often seems that this US fundamentalism is only hindering any progress in the Middle East.

an entire country moves from fascism to political freedom under his tutelage

Saying that Bush is a moron, and yet also giving him credit for tutoring Iraq on democracy? From a man (or at least the neo-cons in total) that 'stole' one election by use of a State governed by his brother? How is that different from Saddam having his relatives in power? Specifically not how they got there, but their use of the power? Are you 100% sure that there was no pressure on the judges in 2000? None of my US friends are, let alone others elsewhere in the world.

In essence, making the statement that it is the US that gives democracy and freedom to the world comes across as 'arrogant' and 'not credible' (rather than incredible). Many arguments could be put forward against this, least of all that is always US military that imposes the 'freedom' and so on. Not that all other countries can claim to be better, but thinking that America is best doesn't help either.

I don't think you are wrong to have faith in your fellow humans; I do think your lack of humility in your patriotism blinds any eloquence in your arguments, because most of your argument needs no reference to the US at all. I will leave you with an example of how it comes across: look at the implication in this sentence following, that the US knows better than everybody else. Is that what you really really believe?

your fellow human being knows what is best for them, the whole world over

Re:i am illogical

[robocrop]

those who believe in negativity: no action can actually improve the state of the world, and those who believe in the immoveability of inequality: iraqis, for example "just aren't ready for democracy"

BULLSHIT

what kind of condescending, patronizing, soft racism is that?

Man, I'm sick of hearing that shit.

The problem is not that people think, nor is it the case, that Iraqis aren't "ready for democracy" or aren't "capable of democracy", or "deserving of democracy".

The problem is: MOST IRAQIS DON'T WANT DEMOCRACY.

The problem is: DEMOCRACY GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST THE THEOCRATIC DESIRES OF MOST MIDDLE-EASTERN MUSLIMS.

The problem is: WE ARE TRYING TO FORCE DEMOCRACY ON A LARGELY UNWILLING PEOPLE.

You can be proud of this, and I might be too if I had any reason to believe it would work. But every day some nutjob blows up 15 more of his own people, or 15 of ours, just because they're trying to set up this democratic institution you hold so highly, the truth is further revealed.

If the Iraqi people wanted this democracy, they would be up in arms fighting with us. They would be turning in the suicide bombers before they could kill. They would be handing over the rebel clerics.

But they DON'T want this democracy. They want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit. Not to be told how to do it by the United States.

This "how can you be so racist?" crap is a strawman argument thrown out by the right, just like the "how can you be so unpatriotic?" nonsense whenever you question a military action foisted upon us by our robber-baron-in-chief.

You cannot FORCE your version of freedom upon another people. It will not work, and these kids are all dying for nothing.

Re:i am illogical

[bani]

If the Iraqi people wanted this democracy, they would be up in arms fighting with us. They would be turning in the suicide bombers before they could kill. They would be handing over the rebel clerics.

bullshit.

the iraqi people desire democracy (or at least what could pass for a democratic system under islam) but the iraqi people are largely passive. decades of living under an orwellian dictatorship sort of does that to people.

that and the threat by insurgents to kill anyone even suspected of "working for the merkans" sort of takes the piss out of the desire to be caught informing on anyone.

there may be a point of critical mass where the majority of iraqis get fed up, take up arms and start fighting -- but they havent reached that point yet.

Re:i am illogical

[robocrop]

bullshit.

the iraqi people desire democracy (or at least what could pass for a democratic system under islam) but the iraqi people are largely passive. decades of living under an orwellian dictatorship sort of does that to people.

Hmm.

And you know this ... how?

All available information points towards a people who are perfectly content with living the way they live.

Know how this comes across?

The ZERO PERCENT of democratic revolutions in Arabic countries.

Freedom comes from the will of the people, not the forced desire of some Western power.

If the Iraqi people wanted freedom bad enough, they would revolt. Obviously they don't. Their too cowardly to even police their own state, and constantly whine about how not enough is done for them.

Our troops are dying for nothing.

I felt a great disturbance in the force.

[Anonymous Coward]

As though thousands of voices cried out in terror, and then suddenly silenced.

Check USGS website....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Everyone should check out http://www.usgs.gov and see alot of the data collected on this. I know this seems kind of cold to look at the data, but the thing that impressed me the most was the animation they have that shows just how large of an area that this has affected. It's staggering. BILLIONS of dollars will have to be spent over many years to get things back to the way they were on Christmas day. Lives of MILLIONS will be affected in one way or another. The most disturbing thing that I have heard has been the greens blaming this on global warming....um..ok....whatever dudes.

Tsunami speed explained in bad english.

[Ch_Omega]

It is true that tsunamis travel really fast, but only when in deep water. When the tsunami enters more shallow water, the speed goes down to about 40-50mph, while the wave itself starts to grow in height because of the higher-speed water pushing from behind. This is also the reason that the tsunami is more or less invisible when traveling across deep water.

Staff?

[Anonymous Coward]

"staff" or "people in servitude"?

Re:The worst hit

[metamorphage]

It means that medraut disagreed with the grandparent's statement, i.e. it was not "on the mark."

My house ...

[Vinnie_333]

My God ... it's full of starfish...

USA doesn't even have an Atlantic system

[bigpat]

"but the failure to act in a timely manner and not having a system in place to save lives is something the governments local to the indian ocean have proved shameful about, not the usa"

Not sure who I am agreeing or disagreeing with here, but I'd like to point out that the US doesn't even have an Atlantic tsunami warning system in place. The Pacific is the only system in place. Though, we have probably many more sensor capabilities in place than in the Indian Ocean, there is no plan or system in place on the American Eastern coast for this sort of thing either. That might change after this disaster, but up until now only the Pacific Ocean has been considered the major threat area.

amoral geeks who live in their mom's basement

[justins]

I hate to sound like a bastard, but I second the parent opinion. Remember all that aid that India sent when the twin towers came down? I don't either.

They're POOR, you moron. That's why they need help. That's why they're able to "steal" our jobs. It's all about a little thing called "economics."

What sort of aid would you have wanted them to provide in the event of a disaster in the US? Maybe they could have sent over some of their tens of millions of impoverished to help dig out dead stock brokers after 9/11 but it wouldn't make a lot of sense, would it?

Yes, because the Atlantic threat is much less...

[skink1100]

Not much tectonic activity in the Atlantic; at least not enough to justify such a system.

S

Definitly NOT Insightful

[Anonymous Coward]

...everything bad that happens anywhere in the entire world can be blamed on americans, even tsunamis.

Who has blamed this tsunami on the US? We have a nice echo chamber going on in this thread - lots of hypotheticals about how someone, somewhere will probably say "this is America's fault".
In the real world, no one is blaming the US for this tsunami. Tens of thousands of innocent people in the region are the victems here, not the US. Get over yourselves.

Arthur C Clarke a CHILD MOLESTER???

[Anonymous Coward]

I have heard rumors he lives in Sri Lanka so he can have easier access to cornhole little boys. If this is true this guy is a monster.

Re:Arthur C Clarke a CHILD MOLESTER???

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I have heard rumours that he actually lives in Area 51, and that the "Clarke" you see in Sri Lanka is actually his shape-shifting reptilian gray alien twin, who feeds on the brains of 9/11 hijacking victims (who actually didn't die in the plane crashes but were secretly transported by Mossad to underground slave labor mines under the Denver airport, where they labor night and day to supply gold for the aliens' anti-gravity propulsion engines).

But he uses Linux, so it's all OK.

Earthquakes are preventable

[Anonymous Coward]

J. Edgard Hoover investigated Nikolai Tesla, and didn't stop after Nikolai Tesla died; seizing property and effects.

Tesla Earthquake Machine

That is what they fear, the possibility to disturb subterranean objects deep under the crust: causing slippage, it is.

Yoda, become, I am.

you are so wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

team america was the worst movie made in years, and that painful song "fuck yeah" could not be described as hilarious by anyone with a whit of taste.

pad ped

[oftheapes]

but what about the stable of underaged boys Artie is so fond of? are they ok?

Plenty of coverage in the U.S.

[rbanzai]

I'm not sure where these weird claims are coming from that the U.S. media is not giving this story enough coverage.
The first day there was not much but I think that's because the initial damage reports sounded outlandish.
By the second day it was the top story of every newscast I've seen, both national and local and that persists to today.
I don't watch Fox news so I can't tell you if their coverage is weak. I'm watching CNN/headline news, NBC and ABC national and local news.

Re:Plenty of coverage in the U.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

The first day there was not much but I think that's because the initial damage reports sounded outlandish.

WTF? On the first day I heard reports of only 20,000 dead, and I thought "That's ridiculously low, the true numbers must be at least thrre times that number."

I mean, a massive earthquake and Tsunami, and the US thinks the very low initial damage estyimates were "outlandish"?

Just how stupid and out of touch with reality is the American media? They repeat anyh outlandish claim Karl Rove makes about John Kerry or the Democrats, but can't even understand the scale of such a natural disaster?

this has got to be a case of incompetence. Anybody with basic science knowledge and an understanding of disasters could see from the outset that this was going to be huge.

But you think their coverage is OK, because they eventually started talking about it? that's sad. You should demand more from your media.

There is plenty of wealth in india

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't all poor. There are over a billion people in the country. There are a hell of a lot of rich people in india.

The wealthy indians would rather get the american tax payers to bail them out so they can buy another mercedes-benz.

Let the indians pay for their own natural disasters, they have the resources for it.

Re:There is plenty of wealth in india

[justins]

They aren't all poor. There are over a billion people in the country. There are a hell of a lot of rich people in india.

The wealthy indians would rather get the american tax payers to bail them out so they can buy another mercedes-benz.

Let the indians pay for their own natural disasters, they have the resources for it.

Ha ha. I hope you're just fucking with us, and you're not really this dumb.

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, some effective population control. Let's keep it up!

Re:Yes, because the Atlantic threat is much less..

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you even bothered to read anything about this? There haven't been much in the Indian ocean either. That was exactly the point everyone was making about this. (the Atlantic has had tsunamis too, just not recently, just like the Indian ocean up to a few days ago)

Arthur C. Clarke???

[msjumbu]

who is that? what has he done? and why does he command so much respect here?

Yes. Sad but true.

[rarose]

Hard to contribute to charity when you're unemployed. And as to India being the target... well... karma coming around in some sense.

Re:Yes. Sad but true.

[Anonymous Coward]

What!?

Re:Yes. Sad but true.

[Garabito]

Oh yes, I can see. For some reason the poor people living in indian coasts had bad karma because american corporations decided to outsource their jobs to not-so-poor trained people that lived in other parts of India.

Connetion of earthquakes and whale suicides.

[bluenote39]

There seems to be a connection between suicide in whales and earthquakes. Around two weeks ago, an Indian Doctor had predicted this earthquake on Princeton's mailing list based on whale behaviour in Australia. Interesting...

False economy of outsourcing

[rarose]

This disaster also highlights the false economy of outsourcing. Companies saved money by moving work offshore because it was cheaper... but they probably didn't factor in the value of infrastructure and redundent transportation that the US provides over third world nations.

India may have the programmers and they may be cheaper per hour, but the risk exposure between crime, nuclear tensions with neighbors, and natural disasters has been ignored. The US's redundent power grids, interstates, and communications link cost money, but in cases like this is where the value is realized.

Re:False economy of outsourcing

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF? Tell this to the orange farmers in florida. Tell this to the oil pipeline owners who can turn around and tell you what nature's fury can do to your "systems". Besides, US is not safe. US has gun totting nuts and criminals and did I forget cops? US has had its Mt.St. Helens. If you have a tsunami hit NYC, you would realize how shallow your claims are.

apples and oranges

[Anonymous Coward]

people have to realise that there is a price to pay when you choose to live in a natural disaster zone.

Bad comparison. People move to Florida from the rest of the US - it's a destination. Besides, moving between areas inside the US (or to other countries with a US passport) is relatively easy.
People in Indonesia and Sri Lanka didn't move there for a sunny retirement. Many of them are struggling just to survive, and would gladly live in Europe or the US if they could even dream of affording it.

So while it's somewhat rational to blame the old folks who move down to the condo in Florida for the sunshine, it just doesn't apply to this situation at all.

You should probably reread the earlier post

[sean.peters]

... with the link from Global Security. There were no truly "native inhabitants". The islands were unoccupied when the British took possession of them - the so-called "native inhabitants" were shipped in from other islands in the Indian Ocean to serve as plantation labor. When they were no longer useful as plantation laborers, the Brits shipped them to Mauritius.

Also, the island didn't become a "bomber base" for almost 30 years after the plantation workers were removed - it was nothing more than a communications station until about 1979, and serious bombing didn't start to happen from there until 1990, during the first Persian Gulf war. The "natives" had been shipped out in 1961.

Here's the link again:

about dodge

Sean

Re:Yes, because the Atlantic threat is much less..

[bigpat]

"Not much tectonic activity in the Atlantic; at least not enough to justify such a system."

yea, just like the Indian Ocean... before now.

Another source in the atlantic is land slides not just tectonic activity.

quick google search:
http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/tsunam is.html
http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/ECNews/ GntWavesH itAtlantic.html

like when 9/11 hapenned

[tempny]

I remember every website/tv show/whatever media acknowledged it somehow for the next few weeks, and people did too. Red white and blue ribbons were on google and slashdot (I think), yahoo went black and white, people wore pins on their lapels. The world as a whole just sufferred a massive loss, again, why not acknowledge it in the same way? What could do more for the image of america abroad than the knowledge that every other person is wearing a pin to acknowledge a tragedy that hapenned on the other side of the planet?

What What What What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your money is in the poket of the rich american. It isn't in the pokets of poor people of India.

India was a british colony and that it's what they get.

just to put it in context

[J. Random Luser]

Sri Lanka is one of the "lucky countries" where a comfortable (by Asian standards) life can be had for little effort. Memories fade in such circumstances. 120 years ago Krakatoa sent a tsunami to Sri Lanka, reported as 12 feet high when it reached shore, but I find only -one- fatality recorded. (37,000 in Sumatra)

Compare 1908 when the city of Messina, Sicily was destroyed by earthquake, and tsunami engulfed neighboring Calabria, estimates of death toll range up to 200,000

The present disaster happened on a holiday weekend, when thousands of /.ers were able to idly speculate, and bring down Indian webservers - http://www.asc-india.org/ collapsed within hours of the disaster...

Re: You won't read anything about it...

[Captain Nitpick]

Given its location and elevation (4' average, 22' maximum, according to the article), it's somewhat surprising that they didn't get washed away.

If you look at the wave animations for the tsunami, you'll see that most of it got directed almost due west toward Sri Lanka and eastern India. Diego Garcia is well out of the way of the main wave.

God's Wrath

[Anonymous Coward]

This is simply God's wrath on the evil Moslem and Hindu.

Re:God's Wrath

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and all those Florida Hurricanes were God venting his wrath over the Presidential Elections.

Kernel of truth here...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bite on both trolls... The environmental classes I've taken at University basically boil all eco problems down to one thing...too many people. Yes, 30K+ dead is a tragedy but at the same time the key problem in asia (and in NorAm) is the ginormous population. Higher population leads to higher resource consumption making the environmental problems worse. We need to get the population down by a few billion. The major disagreement is on how to do this. Discuss freeley

You are wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/sep/26richest.htm

Why should middle class american tax payers deep in debt be forced to bail out india?

vs. James Burke

[blakespot]

James Burke so 0wNz Clarke.

blakespot

Fork tales?

[Anonymous Coward]

along with many other books and of course fork tales

Do you mean that the tales have split off into competing distributions over the centuries? Or do you mean that the Mahawamsa discusses Sri Lankan cuisine?

Sea floor measuremnet

[SuperKendall]

I read in another report that there are sea floor sensors in other oceans - you are correct that you can't just tell how much of a tsunami is going to be generated by the strength of an earthquake alone. This quake had huge tsunamis because it had a really large vertical displacement of the ocean floor, where other quakes are more horizontal.

Shame

[SuperKendall]

Then of course you have the people rather hoping that entire US military bases and the people in them were wiped out because of something that happened 40 years ago. It's not just Americans that are so disgusting at times like these, when we should just care about the people... instead of feeling ashamed to be an American because of one AC, perhaps you should feel proud to be part of a country that can bring so many resources to bear on a problem like this. That includes the people living in America who have a lot to spare to help.

And for something practical people can do, you might start with a donation to the Red Cross (a good sign is that the donation link is Very Slow).

Charity

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone recommend a charity that the IRS recognises as such that takes donations specifically for helping these people? I tried a few so far and they like to do things such as point out that I will automatically be subscribed to their (paper) newsletter, or require a phone number to continue.

I very strongly object to them spending my money to send me newsletters. I want it spent on the victims. I don't want to give my phone number because I do not want to be hassled.

Some friends have had very nasty charity experiences. It seems like the charities sell contact information for donors amongst each and then spend a huge sum of money trying to convince you to give me. I even more strongly object to the use of my money to try and convince me to give more. Some reports claim that many charities spend 30-50% of their income on fund raising! What a phenominal waste.

Any recommendations?

aww Phuket

[zoloto]

every time I hear that mentioned, I think of a vacation near Sri Lanka when a buddy of mine said to me while we were leaving

I love that little island.. what was it called?..

Awww Phuket!

Re:The worst hit

[Anonymous Coward]

It would have been more "economical" had it killed off the elderly. Those incapable of caring for themselves.

Killing off children shifts the age balance in a bad way.

F the Commie UN

[Anonymous Coward]

That UN socialist twit was just talking trash, hoping to spread rumours in Asia that the US was ignoring their catastrophe. The US disproportionately funds the criminal scum running the UN. Its high time we pulled all of their funding and kicked them out. I'd like to see the UN building and real estate in NYC sold for a billion or so dollars and that money go directly to those in need.

Chilling Photo: Man Faces a Tsunami, Hawaii, 1946

[Anonymous Coward]

"Chilling Photo of a Past Day: Alone -- Man Faces a Tsunami in Hilo, Hawaii on April 1946"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1309506/p osts/

When does America understand or wake-up ???

[m17p]

Before, I get into what I say - what ever I say here is no personal , no offence to no one

We are now into 3rd day of this disaster and we just starting to realize how big it is and how long does it take to get back to normal(if at all). Right now being in US we can support the victims morally and monetary..

I first heard this news on Sunday CNN headline news and I thought it was small earth quake ( this is how CNN projected it, initially) As was googling around today I saw one comment which was hard to believe, that western media was not ready to give all the info - just not spoil the holiday mood. No wonder, Mr.President (Geroge Bush) didn't find time or muharth till now (we are into Wednesday) to talk about it. There is no official communiqué from white house, yet. They offered $15 mn (now they revised to $35 mn ) - is this 50c per displaced person that's how they are calculating ?? And one more thing, as I watching those images on Anderson Cooper 360, someone reported Anderson not to show those images as they are quite disturbing.. what kind of an insensitive person would he/she be ? Initially, I thought its media which is bad here in US, than I thought it govt. too,,and its hard to believe people are being insensitive too ..

I'm starting to ask myself - why is America being so in different when it comes to others peoples. I know now in IRAQ they created a mess and they or media don't talk about civilian casualties any more ,, just the American Soldiers ( some times they don't even
Mention about other country soldiers). Now they only want to get out of there because there are more American Casualties. Now we have a natural disaster and US has all the equipment, resources (strategic /logistical) and they could be in fore front of relief operations .. They don't see any oil over there they don't act. Is that is !!

Sept'11 changed world for sure, not because it's America which got affected because it's the evil thing which happened and world came together . Any way its getting loooong, what I wish to say is - YOU don't make friends waging wars, you make them when you lend your hands when they need them ..

Re:When does America understand or wake-up ???

[sledpoint]

Umm, why exactly should the US Givernment be required to give cash aid when the American people themselves are more than capable of contributing directly to relief organization(s) of their choice? Yes, there are some things that only a government or military can assist on, but when it comes to cash, why would you automatically presume that it is the government's responsibility and not instead encourage giving by private citizens? Please at least go and make a personal contribution (American Red Cross - Credit Card Contribution) before complaining further that the government is not giving enough cash...

Dialog translation?

[Neoncow]

Umm... any /.ers know what the people in the video are are saying?

Damn morbid curiosity...

Richest Indian donates 0.0042% of his wealth

[Anonymous Coward]

So the richest indian in the country donates 1/238th of 1 percent of his wealth. And you try to guilt "stingy Americans" for questioning why indians can't pay their own bills.

Instead of guilting foreigners, why don't you bring up the issue why the wealthy class in india doesn't contribute its share?

To translate the anons:

[Inthewire]

Bothersome natives.
Drowned in a tsunami, the nerve.
Sack them and replace them at the first opportunity.

It's probably just me

[Inthewire]

Every time I hear / read / become aware of a European say / write / think "native" I substitute nigger.

USA fucked up *Afghanistan*?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Leaving aside the invasion of Iraq altogether (as I am inclined to agree with you that it was, at the very least, unnecessary and foolish)--

Do you truly believe that Afghanistan today is in a worse state on December 28, 2004 than it was on December 10, 2001?

You are aware of the Taliban regime which immediately preceded the (now) elected government of Karzai, are you not? The same regime which engaged in execution by (inter alia) stoning, the deliberate and considered demolition of large-scale cultural artifacts and antiquities, etc.? Further, are you aware that although fragile, the government of Afghanistan has recently held national elections of at least passable veracity, and is making progress toward enhancing the efficacy of its elected government?

If so, and you still profess your belief that Afghanistan is more "fucked up" than before the U.S. invasion, then it would be impossible to put any faith in the sincerity and/or integrity of your opposition to the actions of my country.

Unless, of course, you are referring to the putative "neglect" of Afghanistan supposedly perpetrated by America following our support of the insurgency against the Soviets--an argument I consider ludicrous for many reasons, but upon which I will refrain from expanding (as beyond the scope of the immediate topic) unless you wish to flesh out this notion further.

Re:USA fucked up *Afghanistan*?!

[Troed]

I talked about the lies of how the US would help rebuild what they bombed to pieces, of course. You do know that the US promised a lot and did nothing - right?

Oh - and those "elections" were a farce. They only took place so that Bush could say they did.

Re:USA fucked up *Afghanistan*?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I see now that you are either a Machiavellian zealot (who would denounce any action taken by my country, no matter the circumstances or outcome), or merely a troll perhaps, but certainly not a principled critic.

It is good that you made this clear, so that no one might waste time or effort attempting to engage in sincere debate with you--as indeed, it appears from the above and various others of your posts that your mind is resolutely hardened in prejudgment that any American intervention is malicious.

Re:USA fucked up *Afghanistan*?!

[Troed]

The sad fact is that what I wrote is true - and can easily be verified in seconds. Rather than doing that, my post gets moderated as "troll".

Ignorance is bliss.

(PS: The reason the US "helped" in the Balkan war is finally approved now - the oil pipeline will be built - by an american company. Same thing is happening in Afghanistan, and we all know how it looks like in Iraq.)

Re:The worst hit

[jcr]

What have you lost, little men?

Until and unless you go through what they have, you don't know what they've lost, do you? I can't believe you got modded "insightful" for such a snotty diatribe.

-jcr

Re:The worst hit

[jcr]

What irked me was this ONE man ..who has been through a trauma that you can't imagine, and you're ridiculing him. You should be ashamed of yourself.

-jcr

This is a Small Silver Lining

[abb3w]

[T]he first time I heard about a tsunami hitting Sri Lanka, my first thought was, "I wonder if Arthur Clarke is ok?"

Welcome to the club. Although the news report I heard merely said that the epicenter was from a Richter Scale 9 quake off the coast of Sumatra, having played around with the Asteroid impact calculator from last week's stories gave me some instant idea of the affected area... and that Clarke might have been in-range.

Re:The worst hit

[cocotoni]

Pray tell, since you are so vocal against my posts, why do you think I don't know what a natural catastrophy feels like? Are you some sort of specialist on cocotoni now? You know for sure that I haven't been through a tornado, earthquake, tsunami or flood?

So get off your high horse unless you really think that the plight of this ONE man somehow trumps the tragedy of the millions.

Re:The worst hit

[jcr]

why do you think I don't know what a natural catastrophy feels like?

Perhaps I'm inferring it from your callous attitude toward a survivor.

So get off your high horse unless you really think that the plight of this ONE man somehow trumps the tragedy of the millions.

Excuse me? You're the one on the high horse, presuming to judge this man.

-jcr

Response from Arthur C. Clark

[John Sokol]

I E-mailed him a few days ago and just recieved a response. ::Sir Arthur C Clarke to John L. Sokol

Dear John,

Thank you for your concern about my safety in the wake of last Sunday's devastating tidal wave.

I am enormously relieved that my family and household have escaped the ravages of the sea that suddenly invaded most parts of coastal Sri Lanka, leaving a trail of destruction.

But many others were not so fortunate. For over two million Sri Lankans and a large number of foreign tourists holidaying here, the day after Christmas turned out to be a living nightmare reminiscent of The Day After Tomorrow. My heart-felt sympathy goes out to all those who lost family members or friends.

Among those who directly experienced the waves were my staff based at our diving station in Hikkaduwa, and my holiday bungalows in Kahawa and Thiranagama all beachfront properties located in southern areas that were badly hit. Our staff members are all safe, even though some are badly shaken and relate harrowing first hand accounts of what happened. Most of our diving equipment and boats at Hikkaduwa were washed away. We still don't know the full extent of damage -- it will take a while for us to take stock as accessing these areas is still difficult.

This is indeed a disaster of unprecedented magnitude for Sri Lanka, which lacks the resources and capacity to cope with the aftermath. We are encouraging concerned friends to contribute to the relief efforts launched by various national and international organisations. If you wish to join these efforts, I can recommend two options.

- Contribute to a Sri Lanka disaster relief fund launched by an internationally operating humanitarian charity, such as Care or Oxfam.

- Alternatively, considering supporting Sarvodaya, the largest development charity in Sri Lanka, which has a 45-year track record in reaching out and helping the poorest of the poor. Sarvodaya has mounted a well organised, countrywide relief effort using their countrywide network of offices and volunteers who work in all parts of the country, well above ethnic and other divisions. Their website, www.sarvodaya.lk, provides bank account details for financial donations. They also welcome contributions in kind -- a list of urgently needed items is found at: http://www.sarvodaya.lk/Inside_Page/urgently%20nee ded.htm

There is much to be done in both short and long terms for Sri Lanka to raise its head from this blow from the seas. Among other things, the country needs to improve its technical and communications facilities so that effective early warnings can help minimise losses in future disasters.

Curiously enough, in my first book on Sri Lanka, I had written about another tidal wave reaching the Galle harbour (see Chapter 8 in The Reefs of Taprobane, 1957). That happened in August 1883, following the eruption of Krakatoa in roughly the same part of the Indian Ocean.

Arthur Clarke
29 December 2004