Slashdot Mirror
Bringing Down A Copycat Site
Nigel Cross wrote in with an interesting story from the world of software fraud. Cross writes "I found a copycat site fraudulently selling my own software and kept a record of the steps it took to bring him down."
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
Step one: Find out name of evil twin from mother.
From article:
:-P
> Dec. 24, 2005: I received an e-mail from
Now, how did you know that?
Connection closed by foreign host.
Dec. 24, 2005: I received an e-mail from a former colleague...
Talk about the mysterious future!
"Come on, let's go drink till we can't feel feelings anymore."
from the link:
Dec. 24, 2005: I received an e-mail...
holy shit! he lives in the future!
That's the solution to everything: /. it!
Think about it... Just post a link to that site saying that it's a fake, and just watch as it takes a slashdotting.
Now THAT'S how a nerd kicks some butt!
I know that a lot of people are going to compare this with suprnova/etc to support their stance on copyright law. Rather than take a side right now I would just like to point out that this is not just simple copyright violation. The site in question was also committing fraud and trademark violation, both of which are separate issues in addition to the copyright violation.
Doesn't anyone get the feeling that MaillistKing is used by spammers? Thats why it was on a site advertising other spam software and email lists with 1mil names... and thats why the guy was hosting in Pakistan and probably knew the spam business well. Probably why he had such blatant disregard for the law and any acted like a prick?
I don't know if I want to feel sorry for a guy that sells and develops spam software. I guess there are legitimate uses for Mailing Lists, but just because there are a few people using it legitimitely (sp?)... doesn't mean it's not used to increase spam.
Other than that, this is nothing new. Have a problem, contact the ISP... wow... what a revelation.
Awesome! Great work on taking the copycat's site down. There are way too many punks on the internet these days that will stoop to massive lows just to make a buck or two, it's pure garbage. I have many ideas always in the mix and I dare tell a couple people about them before the official release date - I've been ripped off by people before like this.
sadly, you know as well as I, it won't be long before your copycat starts up on a new hosting server and does the exact thing again.
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
Do you have any idea how much time and money it costs to sue? Sure, legal action would've fixed this mess in a jiffy, but then he'd be out thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of wasted time before it was over.
To bad the hosting provider didn't take his complaint seriously. This guy can just pick the next company and start all over again.
I've heard here that people trying to protect their IP should just give up on their quaint old ways of doing business.
http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:Fuwwkr0yD5gJ: www.e-buyonline.com/
Google cache
Link to it on Slashdot!
Tim Dorr
Owner/Manger
A Small Orange
Did you even read the farking article? India wasn't mentioned anywhere. RTFA.
Things like this are exactly what the bedrock of the whole spam industry is composed of (There are thousands of these people out there, and they all know they can get away with it). Until a passive attitude on the problem is absolved, the internet, or computer digital storage in general, will never reach the tried and tested security of paper and pen. But then again there is genocide and unjust wars happening as we squabble about these things
Good luck buddy.
It's windows software, of course it's BSDed
For the record MailList King is more about managing a mailing list (handling subscribes, unsubscribes, bounces, double opt-in requests) rather than a bulk mail sender. Sure, like any e-mail software that can handle a lot of addresses it _can_ be used for spamming, but we deliberately do not add the tools that spammers like (random word insertion, obfuscation of headers, etc) so in that respect MailList King is not really spam software.
Nigel Cross
yea basically what got the scammer to stop was that he started to threaten that he would tell the isp that the scammer had faked an email to be from the isp.
basically, there was no punishment for the crook. none whatsoever. even if he could have been gotten on fraud, copyright violation, impersonation(dunno what the proper english word would be for faking that you're someone else), forgery and probably some others too.
seriously, pakistan lawyers can't be that expensive!
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
- chainsaws are used by serial killers?
- binoculars are used by stalkers?
- cars are used for drive-by shootings?
The fact that some products can be used for illegal purposes doesn't make producing the products wrong.
Every website wich collects e-mail adresses (so that's pretty much *every* website) has need for a tool to maintain their mailing list.
http://www.e-buyonline.com/mk.php
thats a nice and secure server if i must say myself. in one of the emails, he was specifically referring to being part of the esellerate affiliate program - if so, he should e using the esellerate e-commerce engine.. this guy smells danger everywhere, anyone who purchases software from this guy probably gets their credit card number stolen in addition to getting their email address added to the spamming lists (that he also sells)..
fun!
Properly linked this time
I'm thinking Nigel hasn't won yet.
http://www.e-buyonline.com/
Defecation occurs.
the link sends you to a COPY SCAT site.. you really don't want to go there.. save your retinas. i don't know enough about google cache, but it sure ain't what i expected to see considering the other comments. it ain't safe work and not safe for your breakfast either.
regards.
He didn't write those. Take a look at his site. Only MailListKing belongs to him. All the other software was only advertised on the fake fraudulent site. Jees... lay off the poor guy and rtfws...
The screenshot in the picture is of the fraudulent website. The developer who wrote the article owns MailListKing (a mailing list management program). He is not associated with the other programs. Please try to pay at least a modicum of attention before complaining.
Even if you don't agree with the aims of the software he sells, you should agree that others shouldn't steal and resell his software.
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
It looks like his pirater just changed the name and icon of the software. www.ebuy-online.com now has a program called Maillist Pro with a different icon but the exact same key features (minus extraneous whitespace) and a description that only differs in that the word King doesn't appear.
Check it out:
http://www.e-buyonline.com/maillist.php
Totally dude. I mean, I can't believe Majordomo and Mailman are still being peddled. They should be the subject of much vitriol.
i mean his product is called "maillist king", right?
/didn't rtfa
well, sign the copycat loser up to every known source of spam in the universe, as befitting the skills of someone whose product is called "maillist king"
and then watch the copycat's server melt
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You should NOT have stopped at the pulling of your gear.
Send all the emails to the admin at the host.
Do not give this bastard an even break. He obviously will not give others a break.
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
I'm curious, he sent some mails and ended up with a smartass reply from the copycat who promised to remove the software.
...
A few days later the software is up on the site again
How is that "Bringing down a copycat site" ????
Wheres the screenshots of a hacked and defaced Copycat website?
Wheres the sentence from the judge putting Mr Copycat behind bars?
Wheres the info about the other 5 sites that went down at the same time?
Nobody has brought down anything yet, except maybe some laughter that can be heard all the way from Pakistan.
Bullshit or not he is getting a free ad and I'd bet that that fact did not go unnoticed by him before he decided to post it. A pretty damm good free ad to if you consider the hits/clickthroughs I'm sure it will get. There's gotta be a least a few people who still RTFA.
MailList King is a piece of mailing list software, you know, the kind where you can set up a mailing list for discussion, or use it to send information to your customers. He explains it clearly on his site! Sure, you can probably use it for spam, but that's not the author's fault is it? If MailList King is spamming software, then GNU Mailman from GNU.ORG is too. Can you all see how ridiculous all this spam talk sounds?
If you people had actually bothered to visit the page and read the text, you would have known that the screenshot is of the scammer's site. Yes, those bulk e-mail programs, e-mail addresses for sale, and so on, are all completely unrelated to the author of MailList King software, apart from his program and the content of his site being ripped off by a spammer/scammer (it seems that the scammer has just renamed the software, but he still has the text from the actuall MailList King page on his site).
As far as I can tell, all the evidence so far clearly shows that the MailList King author is not a spammer or involved in such activities. Until someone posts evidence to the contrary, I suggest that you all stop shouting about spammers when the only spammer here is the guy who ripped off Xecute's software. Seriously, people.
One thing I'm disappointed about, though, is that he didn't follow up on this. The site clearly belongs to a spammer, and he rips off other people's sites and software, making money from spamming and scamming. As mentioned above, he simply renamed the mailing list software, but the product page on the scammer's site still shows text taken directly from the original page.
I would have hoped that this spammer/scammer could have been nailed down and kicked off the 'net. Perhaps someone else can pick it up from here and track down the scammer to put an end to his online adventure?
Clever signature text goes here.
offtopic rage. India == killers, liars, frauds US == patriot, genuine businessman, naive???
Anyway, This comment says it all, really. This guy is not just a copycat, but a scammer and a spammer. He should have been taken down completely!
Anyone up for the task?
Clever signature text goes here.
When I read the article write-up, I just assumed I was in for some great tale of some peice of scum getting fscked. This was as mundane as going to see a batman movie and batman handles the final foe by calling his mom names.
"A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes." -Mahatma Gandhi
(yes I ripped this post off, but it needs to be said again.)
First of all, why all the comments about Xequte selling spamming software? Did you all even take the time to visit the site and actually look at the software available [xequte.com]? Most of these have to do with image manipulation, and not a single word about bulk e-mail or selling e-mail addresses.
MailList King is a piece of mailing list software, you know, the kind where you can set up a mailing list for discussion, or use it to send information to your customers. He explains it clearly on his site! Sure, you can probably use it for spam, but that's not the author's fault is it? If MailList King is spamming software, then GNU Mailman [gnu.org] from GNU.ORG is too. Can you all see how ridiculous all this spam talk sounds?
If you people had actually bothered to visit the page and read the text, you would have known that the screenshot is of the scammer's site [e-buyonline.com]. Yes, those bulk e-mail programs, e-mail addresses for sale, and so on, are all completely unrelated to the author of MailList King software, apart from his program and the content of his site being ripped off by a spammer/scammer [e-buyonline.com] (it seems that the scammer has just renamed the software, but he still has the text from the actuall MailList King [xequte.com] page on his site).
As far as I can tell, all the evidence so far clearly shows that the MailList King author is not a spammer or involved in such activities. Until someone posts evidence to the contrary, I suggest that you all stop shouting about spammers when the only spammer here is the guy who ripped off Xecute's software. Seriously, people.
One thing I'm disappointed about, though, is that he didn't follow up on this. The site clearly belongs to a spammer, and he rips off other people's sites and software, making money from spamming and scamming. As mentioned above, he simply renamed the mailing list software, but the product page on the scammer's site [e-buyonline.com] still shows text taken directly from the original page [xequte.com].
I would have hoped that this spammer/scammer could have been nailed down and kicked off the 'net. Perhaps someone else can pick it up from here and track down the scammer to put an end to his online adventure?
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
Or are you saying that the Free Software Foundation thrives on spam?
Can't you see how silly your own comments sound? I hate spam as much as anyone else. I have flamed people on Slashdot who defend spammers on numerous occasions! But your comments are just completely ridiculous.
Yes, so that must mean that anyone who creates mailing list software is a spammer or promotes spam, right? Even the Free Software Foundation!Sigh. I am at a loss for words here. How can I explain to you how silly you sound? I can't, and I'm having problems not flaming you like I would flame people who defend spam.
Clever signature text goes here.
RTFA. The copycat only copied Maillist King which is a mailing list management package not a mass mailer. He abused the images for other software by applying them to spam tools. The rest was not software or any other tools from the original site. So the copycat is the one with the spamsoftware.
Someone mod the parent up! It's almost the only comment worth reading in this mess.
----- Wtcher Dragon, UDIC
And yet, slashdotters are routinely up in arms about fines being handed out to copyright infringers. We may all agree or disagree whether the amount of the fines is excessive or insufficient or whatever, but remember that the goal of such fines is to discourage illegal activity (and to repay the not insignificant cost of discovering and prosecuting the maldoers).
I'm happy for this guy who got somebody to stop selling his stuff, even though a prima facie the stuff looks like scummy spam-sending software. Alas, the guy who did it is not punished - he's still on the loose and will probably just do it again.
Dispite the questionable nature of the software involved, I can't help but feel I've just read some kind of war novel with a happy ending...
Leaving aside the question of whether or not MK itself is a spamtool, was it really smart to post the steps that led to resolution? Nothing really forced this person to stop his actions; it was just threats with no guaranteed teeth, as the posting now explains to him. So why wouldn't he now just put the site back up, knowing that the threat was potentially empty?
Maybe the Pak site would have objected to his forged email, but maybe they don't care a bit - the article certainly makes it sound like Nigel was about to give up in frustration. Now the copycat site knows that..
-- Tony Lawrence
A similar story has been reported on Slashdot earlier. That guy's website was affected, not his software.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
As far as I can tell, all the evidence so far clearly shows that the MailList King author is not a spammer or involved in such activities. Until someone posts evidence to the contrary, I suggest that you all stop shouting about spammers when the only spammer here is the guy who ripped off Xecute's software. Seriously, people.
I don't think anyone here suggests that the MailList king author is a spammer. But tell me one thing: why is it, if the program has nothing at all to do with spam, that it found itself in company of other products interesting for spammers? Let me answer you: because it is a program that appears to be useful for spammers. As I said in my post: that program clearly has legitimate uses. But it also has a huge potential for abuse, and the damage done through the abuse is far greater than the benefit the net as a whole gets from it.
in this story:
"bring him down."
^ usually in this sort of thing they talk of
`ways to defend oneself` and `defending your business`
so it's a bit over sensational don't you think
A blog I run for the wealth
Nigel, you haven't won yet.
First you need to consider that this asswipe might just start selling your software under another name or from some other URL. You need to continue to protect yourself.
Second you need to consider that he is still out there doing this to someone else. It looks like he's selling other software still and I don't think it's too big of a leap to assume that he stole that as well. You need to continue in order to protect your community.
Third you need to consider that revenge is sweet. Think of the taste of the finest honey, only sweeter. Are you tasting that yet?
Go forth and kick some ass....in the cause of the greater good.
But mostly go kick his ass for the revenge. That's what it's all about. I would guess you're about half way there.
.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
All mailing list programs have a potential for abuse. Really, I don't think you can take this idiot's putting this software on his site as any indication of how useful it is to spammers. He is obviously extremly stupid and doesn't give a fuck about whether it works well for spam anyway, as its he's just using it for his own spam/scam scheme. Look at Xequte's site. They obviously aren't in the business of making software for spammers. Would you sugest that nobody should make mailing list software at all?
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
Why would small time spammers pay for mailing list software, when they can get it for free from the Free Software Foundation?
This guy has one piece of mailing list software, in addition to several other software packages that have got nothing to do with spam. He probably wrote the mailing list software to use it for his own customers at first, and then figured that he might as well sell it to others too.
Most companies today use mailing lists to send out newsletters to customers. It's completely legitimate. When the MailList King product page even talks about "double opt-in confirmations", then that should tell you something.
Stop it now, OK? Just stop it.
Clever signature text goes here.
This would be a great time to get the entire site offline. Wouldn't it be cool if you went to the police and got this scamming spammer arrested or something?
Clever signature text goes here.
if this scammers site suddenly got knocked off the face of the internet by thousands of large UDP packets?
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
this is front page slashdot material? I've had email arguments that were better executed and more entertaining.
And yes, the fake site has been spotted and pointed out in numerous comments.
Clever signature text goes here.
Well. He did 'stop'.
Forward a pointer to the bogus site to Microsoft's legal department. Notice the name? Notice the font used? Doesn't it look like it's designed to resemble Microsoft's logo? This is precisely the type of thing Microsoft Legal prosecutes with a vengeance.
Hey, just because you hate Microsoft doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage occasionally...
Not putting your e-mail address up on the web?
Maybe an okay option if all you email is friends but if you are part of any online communities or want to provide support for products etc...
[)amien
According to you, the Free Software Foundation develops spammer software.
Also, how do you explain the fact that most companies with an online presence seem to offer people to sign up for newsletters or mailing lists for news on their products? They all use mailing list software.
And why on earth would a spammer develop mainly software completely unrelated to spam, and then a single piece of software which could be abused by spammers?
By your logic, anyone who develops something which can be abused deserve to be ripped off. I find that to be a rather stupid and ignorant attitude, to be honest.
Also read my longer comment on the stupidity in accusing him of being a spammer or having anything to do with spam.
Clever signature text goes here.
I read stories of copied websites everyday, and usually they are a damn sight more interesting. Why is this on Slashdot? The only thing remotely remarkable about this whole story, is that the software maker did not start civil and instigate criminal procedures. For all he knows, people are still selling his software. And we all know what great customer service criminals give, and how well that will reflect on his name.
Sigh.
Clever signature text goes here.
Well goto here and all he did was change th icons and the names a little. Match the previous link with the one in the article.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
I just called the host http://www.e-buyonline.com/ and had a 7 minute no result discussion after which he asked me to email their US office which i just did. :)
I told him that this site is earning negative publicity to his host and may even lead to shutting down of his host if someone complains to Verio (from where he is getting his dedicated servers), but he was not ready to close down one of his clients and he didnt even know about slashdot
Within minutes I received the following:
okey I had remove the logo and the software completely.
And with that single line I had won. I checked his site and all references to our software were gone.
Boy that really showed him! I'm sorry but I don't think emailing someone and asking them to remove the software "otherwise you will complain to the hosting company" quite constitutes the phrase "steps it took to bring him down". I was hoping for a story of how you chartered a private bounty hunting squad of ex-navy SEALs and pursued him through the jungle while your software was tied to a site under threat of being sold - hell it would have been nice if he'd been sued for $50 but asking him to remove it? Come on - more like "steps it took to send an email asking him to remove it" may be more appropriate!
Make the bastards suffer!
For those interested, yes, Xequte is the real developer. I went to the websites that gave the awards (which both the real and fake pages have the logos for). I had to Google for some of them.
WebAttack.com
TopShareware
Shareware River
The File Transit
Those four pages link to Xequte's website, not the fake one..
Not for long, last I saw "MailingList Pro" is still on the site
What good is email, if you can't use it a a means of communication for fear of spam/forged headers.
Nigel: I don't know if the original story was dealing with "e-buyonline.com", as someone on slashdot already pointed out it appears they just changed the name of your software and altered your logo (if at all):
"http://www.e-buyonline.com/purchase.php"
Some interesting things I've noticed about the domain:
Name: e-buyonline.com [67.18.82.84]
Aliases: www.e-buyonline.com
root@argc:~> g 67.18.82.84 | m
[whois.geektools.com]
OrgName: ThePlanet.com Internet Services, Inc.
Address: 1333 North Stemmons Freeway
Address: Suite 110, Dallas, TX 75207
Phone: 214-782-7800, Fax: 214-782-7801
Inverse DNS: welcome.topakistan.com [67.18.82.84]
ToPakistan.com Registrant Contact:
Welcome.ToPakistan.com
Khalil Ahmad (khalil@paksys.com)
+92.427596659 , Fax: +92.427583039
6-L, 73 Business Center, Shadman
Lahore, PUNJAB 54000 PK
I take it that's where your pak***.net (and also paksys.com is the same company, maps to the same IP address and WHOIS registration data)
WHOIS Administrative Contact:
Ahmad, Khalil khalil@paksys.com
116 Salem Road, North Brunswick, NJ 08902
732-297-8908, Fax: 732-297-8906
They are a U.S. company. The phone number confirms they are paksys software, also a gander at their website shows the same address and phone number. Calling the New Jersey phone number reveals someone with a thick Arab accent announcing "you have reached paksys software..."
They are located INSIDE the U.S., telco exchange shows that prefix (732-297) to be in Franklin Park, NJ.
Their hosting website also shows the same information, their "U.S." address available for visits by appointment only (could be a residence)
https://www.pakhost.com/?sect=0&subsect=40
The State of New Jersey will sell you the company filing information for a nominal fee, it looks like PAK SYS SOFTWARE is listed, their file # is
ID: 0400053874, go to the State of NJ's Business Entity search at
https://accessnet.state.nj.us/GatewayWatchNameS
Start with filing a complaint with the New Jersey state attorney general, this could get you some type of response (though I noticed you're
in New Zealand.
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/
Consumer Complaint form:
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/ocp/ocpform.htm
Franklin Park, NJ is in Somerset county, start at:
http://www.co.somerset.nj.us/
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
How can we aver convince MPAA and RIAA of the legitimate uses of BitTorrent if you start bashing a simple maillist creator at the drop of a hat.
We aint getting anywhere with that attitude...
I bet almost every single child porn consumer uses Internet Explorer. Obviously IE is a tool for child porn, even though it does have legitimate uses.
And now FireFox is trying to gain market share in the child porn arena!
sheesh.
I'm against the whole copycat website business and the guy selling the software seemed like a real jerk. But if you ask me that software really looked like spam software.
I downloaded the software just for kicks and there's an option that lets you mask you real name and e-mail. Gee all we need is mailing software that will automatically fake parts your header info.
e-Campaign
Note how e-buyonline has also ripped the menu from lmhsoft.com.
http://www.e-buyonline.com/mk.php/
No SSL - and the most dodgiest credit card processor webpage i've seen in a while :)
The site was/is www.e-buyonline.com
Grab a google now and again would you....
Free hits? Hah! The guy in Pakistan was selling the software directly from his site, with none of the profits going to the true author. Tell me how that's free advertising? Sounds like outright theft to me.
Anyone else notice that:
--he's selling Spy Sweeper for $6?
--his "news" says he just released version 3.6 of Spy Sweeper - when Webroot has only released version 3.5 (though that's what he actually offers).
--the MKSoft Spy Sweeper license is for lifetime, when Webroot sells for 1 yr.
Intersting... very interesting. Actually, I already sent an email to the Webroot folks about him... and linked this article here.
He didn't get damages or an injunction (or the equivalent in Pakistan). If we had better international and national laws for this kind of thing he would have been compensated by the crook for the time he put in dealing with this not to mention get an injunction against this behavior if the obviously immature crook decided to change his mind.
By your logic, anyone who develops something which can be abused deserve to be ripped off. I find that to be a rather stupid and ignorant attitude, to be honest.
No, I did not say they deserve to be ripped off. I just said that I do not feel much sympathy for that particular product being ripped off. It might not be good for my karma, but you have to allow me being an asshole just as much as you have to allow the MailList King people the free ad they got through that 'article'.
There is in mailman too... is that suppposed to be spam software?
Sometimes mailing lists need to be anonymous.
This happened to Tony Arts - only worse - his domain was ripped away from him, and then whoever done it started charging for his free[ware] software!! (and he codes some good stuff - I used to use a few in my winders days)
t m
:-(
The 'Official' Toni Arts page now:
http://personal.inet.fi/business/toniarts/index.h
and the unofficial 'ripped off' one:
http://www.toniarts.com/
If ever a site needs removing, it's that one
Account Suspended Temporarily Due to AUP Violation
Please contact abuse@pakhost.com for any questions.
Thank you for your cooperation!
Best Regards,
PakHost.com
it works;)
Have you considered changing its name? If for most people a name like "MailList King" sounds like an evil spammer's tool (it does for me, that was my first impression) maybe it's time to change that name. You know, if you want your product to be successful, you should pay attention to marketing issues.
Fh
if they put spyware in this guys product too
Account Suspended Due to PakHost AUP Violation
... not just having the logos/software "removed."
Ok, that's a bit better. Now he's a little closer to "winning"
The offending website seems to have bitten the dust. It's been replaced by an "account suspended" page showing all the email received or sent by the hosting providing regarding Nigel's complaint.
cp /dev/zero ~/signature.txt
one would be no better than.... I don't know.... SCO.
Someone was just compared to SCO. Next thread!
looks like they have brought down maillistking from their own site itself... strange fellow.
WTF is 10,00,000k ?
So that's what a "Gazillion" looks like... An email list that is a gazillion or above email addresses.
I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
Yeah, those 404s for the products he's flogging really add up in revenue production, don't they?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The Internet is littered with copycat sites. I don't doubt that everything of any value at all has been copied. Look at even a simple site like:
Saugus.net's Computer Terms... and see how many times it's had its content copied without people even having the decency to give proper credit.
Googling on partial text of a few of the definitions will get you the copycats; there's no reason to advertise them here.
Nessus Scan Report
...
SUMMARY
- Number of hosts which were alive during the test : 1
- Number of security holes found : 6
- Number of security warnings found : 4
- Number of security notes found : 11
he he he
Would you rather have someone illegally selling copies of your software, or trading illegal copies?
My question is which of the lesser evils would you prefer?
Idea for future releases. Add an autoupdate feature, this way you could have just killed all copies with the illegal regcode.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
The site is suspended.
-- http://www.MindBlowingPhotos.com
Photography inspired by music, nature and life itself.
He sent a few emails, a couple to the hosting provider, and the hosting provider sent a threatening email.
Woot.
Isn't that the way the system is supposed to work?
Do I post a story to Slashdot because Wal-Mart sold me a defective MP3 player and I took it back to Customer Service to get my money back? "Yeah, baby! I won! It was just me versus WAL-MART, and I crammed it in their faces and they backed down! Woo hoo! I'm the king of the world!"
And did he really expect Network Solutions to intervene? When they let people register domains like "kiddieporn.com," do you think they give a rip what people are doing on the internet?
What about the other software on the copy cat site? Are those software applications developed by others and illegal resold on this website? Did the author make any attempt to verify the origin of the other software? I know it isn't his responsibility to do so, but I think it would be helpful to other developers...
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
Check out iBackups.net, they sell downloads (and for extra $ discs) of popular PC products. They've been around for years...
Does the software developer in question has authorization from NATALIE IMBRUGLIA to use her images for his software demonstration/advertising? I doubt it.
...if you're going to violate trademark and copyright laws, don't impersonate your ISP's administrators in the process thereof. Still, glad to see this creep offline.
I followed the links and found out the stolen site has a forum. It seemed a good idea to post a message containing the now official URL of Toni Arts's site and the fact the site was stolen. /.-ing might be fit....
I doubt if my post will stay on the forum for a long time, but a little
What person will donate an airborne act of love?
We end up suing infringers in federal court. We have taken down numerous infringing web sites. The only ones we can get down quickly are from China.
Uh, I think the parent was actually talking about the "free advertising" that Xequte (the true author) received by getting the story on the Slashdot frontpage.
The difference between MailList being used for spam and guns killing people is that guns are DESIGNED to kill. They have no other function. There is no stun setting. And very few choose to opt-in. =)
...don't be such a Nazi.
I thought Roland Pissepaille's blog had been DDoS'ed.
Not quite. Just the opposite really. If lots of people go to Google and search to try to find the fraud site, they certainly might raise the rating of the site and bring it closer to the top of the Google search results. But if the link had been posted here, then Google would not be aware of the high traffic to the site and would not increase the site's rating. And the thought that the one entry here might increase the site's sanking can be dismissed too, he would have just had to post it in a munged form (replace . with [dot] for example), it would have still got a good slashdotting and likely extra traffic charges, but not increase in ranking at all.
Besides, if he really believes his problem is over and the crook isn't going to sell the stuff any more, no problem. Personally I think he was way too easy on the crook, and the crook will likely respond by putting the product back on the site in a day or two after it was taken down.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
My project TuxMobil: Linux with Laptops, Notebooks, PDAs, Mobile Phones and Portable Computers has been under the attack of content thieves some times. Therefore I have decided to sign all my pages with a steganographic watermark. Also I often watch out for stolen content using a special search engine, e.g. CopyScape. In case I detect a fraudulent site, I contact the FBI to Report Internet Fraud and the FTC's Consumer Complaints site (this applies only if the thief is located in the U.S.). And I complain to the thief's ISP.
Anyways, this gets me thinking, what happens if the copycat didn't back down and in fact claim he was the real author. (uh oh, did I just give him some ideas?) How would Nigel even prove he is the real author if he went to court?
Actually in this case, it might not be that bad since Nigel would have the source code. But what about open source projects? The copycat would have that as well. How would the real author prove him/herself?
It is one thing to illegally sell someones software. But it is an other thing to no do anything when you are caught. Just take the information down and take your losses as part of running an illegal business. It is very stupid to assume that the product you are selling is from a small company who may not have the resources to sue them or do legal damage.
Many large companies have smaller companies with different names connected to them which allow them to make programs and see how well they do in the market without the risk of hurting the larger companies name if it is a flop.
You just annoy the small business person so much that they are willing to put their money in the law suit to get them.
The person you are dealing with may have less morals then you do and do illegal activities in retribution back.
The person my have no morals and send a hit man after you.
Pissing off people is usually a bad thing. Pissing off people when you are in the wrong is a really bad thing.
Pissing off people when you are in the wrong and there is money involved. Only trouble will ensue.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
- Immediately(!) purchase the stolen software, using a Mastercard or Visa. The resulting download is evidence, and the purchase itself will be used later. Make every effort to identify who (URL, domain name, contact info, company name, etc.) is actually processing this credit card transaction (hint: it's usually not the kid in Pakistan).
- Notify the contact info of the domain of the infringement. Use a DMCA-compliant notification.
- Notify the next upstream ISP of that domain of same.
- Notify the domain's registrar. Some have TOS which forbid illegal activity.
- Is the bad guy still up? Then start notifying the credit card processor that they have participated in a sale of stolen goods. Use a letter that calmly documents the date of purchase, how you identified the download as a stolen copy of your software, etc.
- When your credit card bill arrives, follow the instructions on the back of the bill to contest that purchase. Inform the credit card company of everything that's happened, including dates and times and copies of correspondence
- Join the ASP. It's a chance to notify fellow software producers that their software is being ripped off along with yours (and increase the pressure on a particular pirate site). It's also a way of supporting an organization that works to support your right to make a living selling software.
The linchpin in this effort is credit card processing. I don't care if you live on a small island that you rule yourself, if you take Mastercard/Visa transactions, you rely on American companies and American law. These giant companies grant smaller companies the right to parcel out merchant accounts, and they can cause non-trivial financial pain for merchant accounts that generate too many complaints for them.The wheels of the law can take much time to grind to a conclusion, and not always in your favor. Visa/Mastercard can issue a $20,000 fine in a much shorter time, and they don't have to consult a jury.
In the Wild West of Internet fraud that involves money flow, Mastercard/Visa is judge, jury, and executioner. Most victims simply don't know enough to bring their case to them, or the amount of fraud would be dropping.
I do think we have "THE MAN" himself here.
Why am I not surprised that the copied site was hosted at ThePlanet.com? Less than one month ato I found someone make an exact duplicate of my companies website and had to go through ThePlanet.com to remove the copy. ThePlanet operates what looks like dozens of authorized resellers. In my situation, we found someone copy our site and host it at one of these resellers. Figuring out the reseller was essentially operated by ThePlanet was not easy. The entire process was actually much less complicated than what the author makes you believe. ThePlanet has a page of instructions dedicated to these types of complaints. Follow the simple instructions, send a letter, and any problem with sites hosted at ThePlanet will be resolved. Another important part of these processes is to get in touch with a lawyer. It's amazing how quickly people respond to formal legal complaints.
Yes, perhaps changing it's name to "The Gimp" would help?
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
well, the /. effect is too late. The site is already down. The site is already down, but for anybody curious, check out the gcached site (www.e-buyonline.com)
if you are the curious type, you'll notice that my search terms are still in the link. A helful hint for finding the site if you have the page staring you in the face... search for specific phrases on the website. Happy googling.
ta ta
There's no place like ~/
I must be new here. Is this the good kind of copyright violation, or the bad kind?
...or a master flamebaiter
Yeah, but how can you defend a guy that got burned by the same type of people that he caters his software for? He knew what he was getting himself into.
The guy sells mail list management software. He is nothing LIKE the people who burned him. He is no different than Brent Chapman (creator of MajorDomo) except for the fact that the latter made his product community supported, Free Software. What's next, are you gona slag Apache because is it by far the most popular HTTP server used by fraudulent websites?
This frauster "Mohammed" is the lowest form of slimeball life. He wasn't just another spammer or BitTorrent pirate:
* He not only pirated the software, he did it with the intention to resell the pirated copies for a profit.
* He misrepresented himself as the creator of the software.
* He had an online shopping site that accepted credit cards--given his behaviour he intended to use those card numbers fraudulently
* He attempted extortion (demanding money, credit card numbers, etc for removal of the fraudulent site)
The author of the article succeeded in getting the site taken down, but if he hasn't done so yet, I believe he has an obligation to report "Mohammed's" activities to the authorities, as his behaviour is seriously illegal.
P2P apps may have perceived damages to a few large corporations, but they do not affect every single used of the internet like spam.
That is an absoulutely false and stupid statement. P2P is JUST LIKE email in terms of impact on network infrasutructure: used properly it is fine, but when abused it can cripple a network. At the height of the old Napster it slowed the sustained throughput of local cable ISP customers very noticeably. It is the chief reason for slowdowns on campus networks as well--in fact in some cases abuse of P2P apps is the chief reason for implementing bandwidth caps. I personally know of one remote site with internet connectivity provided by a sattelite uplink that racked up THOUSANDS of dollars in one months of fees because of a SINGLE KAZAA USER that shared all her music and lef thte PC on 24/7. As a result P2P was banned entirely. Incidentally, that same site had a Win2K box compromised and used to deliver spam, and it actually had LESS IMPACT on network performance than the P2P software did.
Today we have this story where someone was selling pirated software taking credit from the creator, but because this wasn't some giant software company overwhelming there are modded responses about "way to go", "stick it to 'em", etc. etc.
My questions is what is the difference between yesterday and today? Both folks committed copyright, trademark, and fraud, but because its the work of some smaller outfit it is more of an evil than the same thing happening to "Evil giant corperations"?
Piracy is theft. Fraud is Fraud. Infrigement is Infrigement. End of story. It doesn't matter if its small guy or giant huge megacorp.
I hope that the creator(s) of this program nail this guy and take 'em to the cleaners. Its times like these that lawyers are not an evil word and lawsuits in federal court aren't either.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
What's wrong with Slashdot?
Why are posters suddenly RTFA??
http://iconconstructor.say-it-now.com/
....g +-xequ te- xequ te+-Nigel+-Cross&
there are quite a lot of then
http://www.google.com/search?q=MailList+Kin
http://www.google.com/search?q=MailList+King+
Lima India November Uniform X-ray
http://iconconstructor.say-it-now.com/ http://www.google.com/search?q=MailList+King+-xequ te
http://www.google.com/search?q=MailList+King+-xequ te+-Nigel+-Cross
Lima India November Uniform X-ray
Common sense would say that an hour later it was back up, or even better, he used your tactics. He knows your IP address now, so he could easily serve up different products for you and still offer your software for sale to everyone else!
And I don't believe much of what he said, but his claim of other sites sounds credible, which means he's probably still selling your software on those too!
I hate to play lawyer, but you need more than an email apology at this point if you hope to protect your software.
bazily
--
http://www.gibsoncompany.com/ - Office space for lawyers
Why cut IT when your office space costs $3/sf? gibso
I had a website once for a game (MajorMud). it was considered the best available for people to get up-to-date, comperhensive, accurate data. I inputted the data entirely by hand (no html editing programs, only notepad). I would spend two - three hours a day updating it, and would get around 50-80 emails with requests, edits, etc from people (this was around 1995). One day I went and checked out a "rivals" site which just came up. She copied my data tables line for line, with the exception she did not provide ANY credit to me or even asked for my permission. I think it's lame to do. If you really like someones stuff, ask their permission and even go one step further and give them credit.
On a recent note, I found that a company had copied my companies website word for word.. with the exception they changed the background colors and changed some of the graphics (they actually stole the graphics from Adobe website).
I believe the steps I took back then, and the steps we took with the company site were the same: we contacted them, told them to remove it or else. They did which was good - but the Internet is so big it is hard to find people copying your site.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
quote :
... :
To introduce Icon Constructor, we are offering a $29.95 SPECIAL LIMITED TIME OFFER for this version until December 30, 2004! Click here to order now
hmm and if I change the local time on my computer
quote
To introduce Icon Constructor, we are offering a $29.95 SPECIAL LIMITED TIME OFFER for this version until December 24, 2004! Click here to order now
Now who has finally found a good use for javascript ?
Lima India November Uniform X-ray
MailList King, like all of the products, was created because i personally had a need to manage the people who were asking to be contacted about new releases of our software (most of our software is viewers and slideshow tools).
Presently our site is bobbing on and off line due to the hits from slashdot, but hopefully this will subside before too long and I can get back to what i do (making shareware).
The fraudulent site in question is now down, due to the efforts of slashdot readers. We are still getting abusive e-mails and threats from him (in fact i see he has even posted to this board), but I expect that too will pass.
Regards
Nigel Cross
Xequte Software
www.xequte.com
Assuming software is patented, there is a person that has a legal agreement to be the only person that can benefit from the sale of that software for a period of time. By not selling the software, you are not infringing on their right to benefit from it.
Do you see the difference? In one case, someone is paying to distribute copies of something at no cost and no benefit to themselves. In another case someone is making money off of something that someone else has the exclusive right to be making money off of.
To simplify: I can download 1,000,000 copies of MS Office and still have the same amount of money in my pocket, and the same ability to buy MS Office.
Thanks, this is a good example of how little guys get crushed by well meaning laws with onerous enforcement. He did write a take down notice, but the host did not follow through. As can be seen above, the no good is still selling, so Provision 512 has not helped at all. The case has been very different when the requester represents some big dumb company with an army of lawyers. The differential result shows that the system is broken. Who you are should not matter but they do when you are dealing with copyright.
This inherent inequity is one of the biggest dangers of exclusive franchises. An exclusive franchise is created and must be enforced by Government by restricting the natural actions and rights of others. This is unlike most other criminal and civil law, where violations are unnatural, obvious and easy to demonstrate. Even in such a clear cut case, justice in exclusive franchises is more a matter of who you are and what kind of resources you have than anything else. The complaint people have about the DMCA is that it makes some people more equal than others by it's vagueness.
The DMCA is a huge, steaming shit pile that shows how broken "IP" laws are. Ordinary copyright law should have been able to handle the bad guy. In return for not being able to help our hero, the DMCA makes it so we can't tell people how to work their toys. Somehow, the "compromise" worked out by the dummies who passed the DMCA looks like a clear win for big publishers and a clear loss for the rest of us.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Anyone who subscribes to a *website* digest mailing is really living in the past.
You should really look into an RSS reader.
For windows, try Awasu
Thank you for bringing in our notice. We already have received few complaints and the customer account was suspended. Best Regards, Best Regards, -Khalil Ahmad PakHost Abuse Deptt. abuse@pakhost.com PakHost Web Services http://www.pakhost.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Nasir Ghaznavi To: support@pakhost.com Sent: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:39:38 +0500 Subject: Immediate action required The site hosted on your server http://www.e-buyonline.com is currently in bad news and is currently causing negative publicity to your company visit http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/12/29/0237224.shtml ?tid=185&tid=95&tid=17&tid=8
to see for yourself. The site owner is selling software which he has no
rights over and is collecting credit card information from unsuspecting
users. I would like to suggest that you immediate close this site before
it earns more negative publicity.
Nasir Ghaznavi
Now he has started hosting with another provider and i have kindly forworded them the complaint too, lets see what happens there :)
I set up a Gmail account a few months ago, and I've never used it.
I've logged in from time to time, but I've never sent a single message from it, never posted the address anywhere, never used it to sign up for anything.
Not once.
And, believe it or not, it gets 2-5 pieces of spam each day. Fortunately they're all routed into the spam folder...
LOL! Now the bogus site says "System Under Update"
Read my blog: HansMast.com
There is a slight moral difference between charging for access to a pirate WAR3Z site for stolen software, and fraudulently selling stolen software as your own product. In the former case, you're a slimeball coordinating with other slimeballs, and ripping off the owner; in the latter, you're a slimeball potentially fooling other mostly honest citizens, who might prefer keeping their integrity over the marginal cost between a pirate copy and a legal one. In my view, the former at least has the merit of being an honest crook.
DMCA, like RICO, is an overpowered law that can be grossly abused. Unlike RICO, discretion rests with a corporate or citizen owner, not with even the minimally wiser judgement of a Court Prosecutor.
There are some limited cases where near-DMCA powers are appropriate. Unfortunately, the DMCA is not limited to those cases. (And there would be a major debate even on Slashdot for where the limits should lie. However, there are too few Congresscritters who have studied Midaeval history and too many in corporate pockets for the current law to have been wisely crafted.)
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Whether Nigel is lying or not is not up to me to decide.
Clever signature text goes here.
You should really look into an RSS reader.
I use RSS for almost all of my newsreading.
I don't use it for two things, though - DiaryLand diaries (which a few of my friends have) and Slashdot.
Diaryland doesn't support RSS at all, which is kinda lame.
Slashdot's RSS was useless for a long time, it lacked any description in article entries. I see it's finally fixed - I'd not noticed before, so I will be giving it a test-go again soon.
It still lets me "miss" news, since there is such a high turnover yet still only 10 RSS entries. It also can't show me comments (which I read on quite a lot of articles).
FWIW I use Thunderbird.
Interesting point, but mine remains - how can you opt-out of receiving unsolicited high-velocity pellets from guns wielded by 8-year-olds and/or criminals? =)
Oh, well, the woes of closed-source software - providing an incentive for people to pirate/resell, as opposed to open-source, which is so far pirate-=proof (just ask those litigious bastards how it went in SCO vs Daimler-Chrysler ... to teh moon indeed :-)
My guess is it's time for the author to find a way to convert his software to a service. After all, the fraudster is selling it for $2/copy.
In general, the way to prove that you are the author of a computer program under United States copyright law is to have registered the copyright by depositing two copies of the source code (at least the first 25 and last 25 pages) along with 30 USD at the Copyright Office. It's best to do this as soon as possible after you first publish the work, as you can recover a much greater award of damages if you do this before the alleged infringer starts doing what he does best and then carry the copyright registration certificate into court with you.
There is a slight moral difference between charging for access to a pirate WAR3Z site for stolen software, and fraudulently selling stolen software as your own product.
Correct. More precisely, distributing fresh copies of a program without permission from the copyright owner is copyright infringement; distributing fresh copies of a program without permission from the copyright owner and claiming that you are the author is copyright infringement plus plagiarism, and plagiarism is a form of fraud.
The approach is interesting, of course. If I had registered the copyright on a program (like mksoft claims it did), I'd spit out something so the viewers of the page can check it. Asking people to prove them wrong is convenient for them. Though I think that Nigel would be able to prove his ownership easily since he should have the (commented) source code, preferably with the CVS history.
Didn't mksoft claim earlier that they're based in Portland? So how come their company info states they reside in Dubai?
If they automate the process and regularly copy the content, it would be more fun if you configured your webserver to provide "customized" content to the site that's copying the content. In which case I'd see it as an opportunity not a problem... Bwahahaha... Bwahahahahahahahahah!
;).
You may wish to get some legal advice on the method you choose, but I'm sure there's potential for much legal fun
You can often find people copying content if you insert unique phrases/references into your content and then later search for those. You could refer to nonexistent people as part of a joke or quip in editorial-style stuff - e.g. "My [Aunt/fictitious relative] [unique name here] could do it with her [fictitious SF appendage] tied behind her [whatever]".
It helps if you make your content more interesting and unique compared to the usual corporate-ese which hardly anyone reads willingly.
Often there really isn't much difference when you compare one corporate site with another. In fact, I recall seeing that some sites are apparently done by the same people and they use the same corporate-BS for them all - same bullshit paragraph after paragraph. Quite ironic, given the typical claims in the BS...
Lets say that you buy a new computer.
Windows XP comes installed on it, and you get no install CDs (well, ones that won't format your HDD automatically and reinstall it). You get a crappy 'starter' CD key or some other gimmick designed not to work with any other version of Windows XP.
Yet, you payed full price for it.
This is what makes big corporations different from small companies. Small companies need your business to stay afloat and show some kind of profit for their effort.
Big companies don't need your business. In fact, you need THEIR products most of the time, and they know it. They abuse their position of power to jerk you around.
Here's an example. I had a dead mobo/CPU and didn't know which part was bad, and had access to no comparable parts to do some troubleshooting with. So..I took it to some different computer shops.
CompUSA wanted $150 just for testing, and would need to keep it for a week.
Several smaller computer places I went to didn't try to get me to hand it over to them. They asked me troubleshooting questions (basics I had already tried, but they were trying to helP), and when they saw I had done them already, they offered to test the setup using their parts. I paid $20 to have the CPU and motherboard tested with 'known good' parts and if possible, diagnostic sotware. I got my system back the next day.
Another example.
I go to buy a case. Naturally, I check CompUSA first. All they had are cheap-ass thin-sharp alumnium cases that weighed less than a paperweight sans powersupply.
I go to a few smaller shops, and find that they have good, sturdy cases for similar prices. That and they were willing to sell me the case I wanted WITHOUT the power supply, when CompUSA would just tell me 'sorry'.
You can say all you want about how you can take your business somewhere else if one company is jerking you around, but I think that its way lamer to pirate a piece of software sold for a reasonable price rather than one sold at an unjustifiably high price just because people require it.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Ahh my favorite piece of information...I moved the mouse over their info@company.com (I won't mention the company name)...but in the lower left hand corner of IE (I use IE at work) it said info@mycompany.com.....I went into the source code and found it...talk about smoking gun. Not that it mattered, the site was identical minus some colors and a swap of images...the text (custom text) was word for word the same.
The CEO of their company said the site was similiar, but loosely similar. I don't care that they took it down - I personally wanted to sue because of his non-chalant comments. He should have said "we are very sorry, please don't sue, we are firing our web designers today"
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.