Apple Nixes Live Webcast, Satellite Feed

spamguy writes "MacInTouch reports that Steve Jobs' January 11th MacWorld Expo keynote address may not be broadcast live in any way. If you were hoping to watch Stevie present the rumoured sub-$500 Mac, the Motorola phone, the Flash iPod, and/or the office suite, you now have no choice but to buy your plane tickets to San Francisco ASAP."

Comments

Apple: Always thinking

[gonzo-wireless]

Now they can't screw it up like Gates did. Although, no one can see it, so it doesn't matter if they screw up or not...

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[adeydas]

actually they are trying to beat Gates in screwing up. after all he is a legend and they might as well go down the guiness book for it.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Albinofrenchy]

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/ces2005/default.ms px
Yesterday, I swear to God, it said "The video will be available shortly."
I can't really blame them, but I really wanted to see it.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Although, no one can see it, so it doesn't matter if they screw up or not...

It's quite usual for most demonstrations to go the way Gates' did, with a few glitches. They are, after all, running on beta products with early release software. You can't say any other technology demo goes 100% smoothly, and I can bet Apple has their own screwups at each show too whether they have the event telecast or not.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Saven Marek]

What you can do instead then is use another link which works, and that, one is here to watch

Best Online Nude Anime Gallery's

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[mjpaci]

I cannot believe how badly Conan's "Bill Gates is a family man, wife, 2 kids, don't let the term Microsoft fool you!" joke failed.

I am still giggling.

--Paci

(Forgive spelling)

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[pldms]

Does no one remember the camera sync episode? Somebody hadn't charged the batteries, so Jobs threw it towards/at (delete as appropriate) an underling, with a scowl.

Gates has no style, but is safer to be around.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Alan Partridge]

My home OSX box has crashed twice, and it's been going now for 3 years.

My Windows 2000 and XP machines at work seem to crash a couple of times a month at least.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

> > I cannot believe how badly Conan's "Bill Gates is a family man,
> > wife, 2 kids, don't let the term Microsoft fool you!" joke failed.
> > I am still giggling.

> Fuck you, you Indian whore.

Awww, come now Mr Gates, it was a funny little joke. Get a sense of humor!

PS windows sucks.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Selecter]

Ok, why is this a -1? He's stating his personal experience, and it's not a flame or a troll. It's not offtopic, becuase it's a direct response to a statement thats begs for one. OS X is damn near impossible to crash on a maintained system. My G5 has NEVER crashed, not ONCE, and thats being on 24 X 7 ( sleeping when not used ) since I got it Thanksgiving 2003. His statement about crashing Macs is so 1998, and I bet he's never used a modern one.

I dont have mod points now, but someone that does, remove the blight from this man's record. And find out who the turd was that modded him down and mod down all HIS shit. He needs it.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the poster has bad karma and all his posts start at -1?

No, of course you didn't. That would require too much effort on your part.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

That was pretty funny to say the least (for everybody except the Apple people in the front row).

That was one of the Macworld's that I "found my way" into here in NYC and he was not happy to say the least. He more just threw the camera to the ground though, then at or towards anybody. The Apple employee scurried up to the stage really quick though to collect the camera and its batteries so I can see where that idea may have come from (I was sitting in the 3rd row so I had a nice perspective).

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. OS X is rock solid. Final Cut Pro 4 HD crashes all day.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[squiggleslash]

At some point, someone mod-bombed Alan Partridge and now his karma's shit.

Do what I do, make him a friend (click on the little gray ball) and make sure your friends have at least a +2 bonus (see your preferences) and you'll see what he writes.

Moderation unfortunately gets abused. Partridge made a few enemies, and that's what happens.

FWIW, OS X has crashed on most of my systems regularly (though 10.2.8 is fairly good on my Beige G3, and 10.3.5 good on the B&W I'm using now), and XP has never crashed on my office PC. I think a lot of crashes today - Mac or PC - have to do with hardware quality, and despite the enthusiasts cries of the opposite, Apple is really no better or worse than anyone else. (When I've argued this before, the repost has tended to be "Yeah, but Macs come with better video cards" which is, I guess, "Quality" in one sense, but not the definition of quality in this context. Macs are Macs, they're built, for the most part, with commodity components as much as practically possible and in the same factories as the average PC, and Apple's care and control of the platform is offset by the fact competitors can pick and choose between different x86 motherboards on the basis of known quality.)

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

The plural of antidote is antidotes, not data.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you meant anecdote... not antidote. It's a shame you screwed the pooch on that one, because you made a good point.

Hey! I've become a nitpicky bitch! In slashdot terms, that's like having my bar mitzvah!

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[waynelorentz]

My G5 has NEVER crashed, not ONCE, and thats being on 24 X 7 ( sleeping when not used ) since I got it Thanksgiving 2003.

That's pretty good. My wife had her first OS X crash last week, and she's had her iBook since 2001. I haven't been so lucky -- my Powerbook is 13 months old, and it's crashed twice. The last one was really cool. I got text running across the GUI and some kind of crazy Darwin prompt. Still, that's much better than my old HP XP box which would fudge its boxers every other week or so.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Greyfox]

Crashes were unheard of on my Linux box before I put ATI's video driver and Intel's HD Audio driver on my system. Since I did that my system's been a lot more unstable. If I don't push any 3D, it'll stay up but once I start doing that, it seems to go down at least once every few days. XMMS now likes to crash at random too and it never did before.

I know exactly where to lay the blame. You would think that you could hold a team of programmers making six digit salaries to the same standard of quality as a gang of amateurs developing code in their spare time, but apparently that is too much to ask.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

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Now, now, what have we repeatedly heard on Slashdot about pluralizing with a 's?

That's right, it's Galleries, you dufus.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[PW2]

I hope someone threw it right back!

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[ThousandStars]

Perhaps. The problem with your post and Mr. Partridge's post, though, is that both deal in anecdote, which isn't nearly as useful as data. Unfortunately, hard data in computer reliability isn't easy to find. PCWorld runs an annual survey that doesn't apparently include Apple in all measures. Still, they don't include the full criteria used to judge, don't say what the mean, median and standard deviations were in each category and rely on surveys of their subscribers, which probably does not reflect the general population. (I imagine there aren't a large number of Linux or Mac users, for example). All we learn is the useless "Lynd Bacon & Associates then used statistical analysis, including multivariate statistics and psychometrics, to determine which companies performed significantly better or worse than average over a number of measures."

Consumer Reports is probably at least a little more reliable, and their survey likes Apple desktops. I'm not a subscriber so I can't see their laptop rating or methodology, so that report probably isn't fully reliable either, but I imagine it at least has a larger cross-section of people than PCWorld.

If anyone else knows where to find better data about PC quality, I'd be delighted to follow a link.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[squiggleslash]

Thanks for that. Of course, the problem with these types of reliability reports is that it relies upon the problem being bad enough for someone to send the computer in for repair. Windows 95 was unquestionably less reliable than XP, but I doubt it contributed to a large number of returns.

While Apple appears to be better than average in the Consumer Reports guide you link to, I think it's amazing the return rates are so high in general. Even Apple needs around 5% of its machines to be returned because they're inoperable. Gateway (and Micron - ok, I've heard of them but they're not household names) has an amazing failure rate.

The industry needs to clean up its act. I guess it's never been great, and there were the terrible times of the early eighties where Sinclair and others had awful quality control, but even so...

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[hunterx11]

Of course there are going to be glitches, but it's still rather embarrassing to get a BSOD.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[ThousandStars]

While Apple appears to be better than average in the Consumer Reports guide you link to, I think it's amazing the return rates are so high in general. Even Apple needs around 5% of its machines to be returned because they're inoperable. Gateway (and Micron - ok, I've heard of them but they're not household names) has an amazing failure rate.

Exactly. I read Mac forums sometimes and /. fairly regularly, and I see all kinds of Mac hardware love posted, but without any actual, systematic data, talk is just that. The industry press, meanwhile, hasn't developed any meaningful way of measuring hardware reliability, which the useless PCWorld story demonstrates.

The industry needs to clean up its act.

I agree, but at the same time it's hard for me to perceive companies opening their true failure/return rates to outsiders. The most reliable way I can imagine for hardware reliability is to have some standardized way for all large computer manufactuerers to report defects. That, however, is a fairy dream that's unlikely to happen for political and business reasons, which leaves the computer end-user in the dark concerning true measures of what hardware is better. And that's a shame.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Lehk228]

honestly I think KArma should be a rolling score based on all of your post's moderaiton, but heavily weighted to the most recent 3 weeks, 66% last three weeks, 66% of the remaining section being the 6 weeks before that, 66% of what remains to the 12 weeks before that. A troll would be punished but someone who got fucked over by a mod bomb or a reformed troll can still get excellent karma wihout requiring excessive work, just a genuine desire to post real and contributing content. oh and any week in which there were no posts does not count in the weekly back counting that way trolls couldn't set up mule accounts that would rotate to only need +2 or so to cancel out a bunch of -1's

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[drinkypoo]

I recall an anecdote involving steve jobs, flying newtons, and the phrase "get these damn scribble pads out of my office!" but I couldn't find anything to cite.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[drinkypoo]

Right after I installed my video card and loaded the latest drivers, my XP system consumed all 2GB of swap on my system (I have 1GB real.) Coincidence? You decide. 3dmark05 pro crashes, too, but who can say whose fault that is?

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[drinkypoo]

My solution is to take away five karma points if you negatively moderate. It would keep capricious negative moderation to a minimum.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Nutrimentia]

Your view must have been obscured then. I watched the webcast that had a clear unobstructed angle and Steve tossed it (didn't THROW it) to a person sitting nearby. I've heard (unconfirmed) that the camera had worked flawlessly in practice runs before the keynote but in the process drained its battery, which is why it didn't work in the demo.

People have really blown it out of proportion and make it sound like Steve threw a fit. He didn't. He wanted to, I think, but didn't. He tried to blow it off with a "oh well, whatever. let's move on" gesture. I seem to remember him even shrugging a bit when he did it, but I can't say for sure if my memory is accurate on that point.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[constantnormal]

Apple's care and control of the platform is offset by the fact competitors can pick and choose between different x86 motherboards on the basis of known quality...

In my experience, no corporation selects based upon anything other than cost. People (some of them, anyhow) still make selections based upon quality, but quality is difficult to ascertain (not to quantify), due to a lot of very human factors.

It's not difficult at all to collect the data -- an excellent open source project would be to create "Talkback"-like software components that would report software and hardware problems back to something like the CDDB / FreeDDB databases. At installation time, users would have to input descriptive info on the various components -- maybe only at the manufacturer+model level, maybe at the DIMM / HD mfr+model level.

When Apple gets a crash report, or Microsoft gets whatever they get, that data is used to identify bad code and/or hardware for internal purposes of improving the product, but such data is highly proprietary.

No reason why such an open source tool could not be developed to provide computer users with similar information, but you can bet your last nickel that the manufacturers would fight such efforts strenuously.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I've been watching Conan bomb in front of the brain-dead CES audience, and Chairman Bill drool over some big clunky watches, for over an hour now and no BSOD yet. Could it be they edited out the bomb, or is it right near the end of the presentation? This is really trying my patience.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X crashing huh.. upgrade your old ass G3 you whiner. I haven't had crashes in years under OS X using current hardware. Dual G4's and G5's. I bet you aren't running XP on a PII 400 are you?

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

I would suggest you learn to read, idiot. The only machines I'm currently not having problems with are my ancient regularly used G3s. I own more than two Macs, as implied by my comment.

BTW, why should XP crash regularly on a PII 400? If that isn't lowered expectations, I don't know what is. The machine is some 1GHz Athlon, FWIW.

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[Anonymous Coward]

So in other words:

1) 66%
2) 66%
3) 66%
4) ???
5) Profit!

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[bryan1945]

Which would leave a lot of flamebait and trolls up higher. While it is fun to cruise around at -1 occasionally, especially on Apple related article, I usually just want to catch the highlights and dig deeper into individual posts if they interest me. By taking about 5 points, no one is ever going to negatively moderate. Maybe 1/2 point?

Re:Apple: Always thinking

[djdavetrouble]

This type of anecdotal evidence kills me. I am a administrator at a fairly large site, and have had 2 G5's that were bad right out of the box. One had a fuxed video card that left all kinds of wierd artifacts on the screen, and the other had either bad memory or logic board and crashed at random, and would just shut down completely at random (usually while doing a firewire file xfer.) On the other hand, I have a Blue and White that sits quietly in the corner with no monitor and serves files without rebooting for months at a time. Matter of fact it requires no attention at all, cept when I feel like doing updates.

This is 2 out of an order of twenty, that is a whopping 10% failure rate. Compare this to the hundreds of PC's we deployed last year as part of our XP rollout, we had NO problems out of the box. There were a rash of Maxtor drive failures later on in the Dells however, but I also have a stack of Maxtors from G4's that failed right outside of the warranty period.

What does this tell us? nothing. They could have been fine when they left the factory, but a bolt of lightning may have hit the container they were shipped in for all we know, or someone dropped their electric eel, or whatever.....

Here's my anecdote to add to the pile: On the other hand, I have a Blue and White that sits quietly in the corner with no monitor and serves files without rebooting for months at a time. Matter of fact it requires no attention at all, cept when I feel like doing updates.

why?

[fyonn]

isnt it a good advert for apple when millions are tuning into live webcasts to see what's happening? it's not like it's doing them any harm is it? the news is out there.

dave

Re:why?

[LiquidCoooled]

I can imagine Jobs seeing the Microsoft presentations this week and getting kinda nervous.
After all, how can Apple expect to beat something like Microsoft.
2 whole crashes in one day.
No company could beat that record, so might as well not try.

Re:why?

[lthown]

I was really looking forward to watching this. I've watched them every year (both the San Francisco and Boston/New York/cancelled ones) since apple started streaming them - I think it was in 1999 or 2000. At least it appears we will be able to watch it a short time after it finishes. Maybe it's all related to the snafu that occured when the G5's specs were posted a few days early for a few minutes. It sort-of let the cat out of the bag, even Steve referenced the leak in his keynote address. Shortly after it happened people noticed a job posting on the net for a Apple webmaster job opening. So, they're nixing the live webcast and broadcasting it later because they need more time to put the new products up on their web page. Yeah, that's it.

Re:why?

[martingunnarsson]

Last time around they said it was just too expensive, the question is if that's true or not.

Re:why?

[eclectro]

isnt it a good advert for apple when millions are tuning into live webcasts to see what's happening

Probably what happened is in rehearsal the sub $500 mac prototype crumbled and all the parts fell out on the floor everywhere. Needless to say, this would not look good in a live presentation.

You can only cut corners so far.

Please don't sue me Apple.

Re:why?

[aminorex]

And flying 50 million people to SFO is not expensive? Oh, that's right, Apple wouldn't be paying for it. Let me rephrase: And failing to engage your 50 million interested consumers isn't expensive? Did Apple ever hear of SwarmStream, or BitTorrent?

"...no choice but to [go] to San Francisco..."

Thank you, but I would prefer a Turkish prison.

Re:why?

[fyonn]

Last time around they said it was just too expensive, the question is if that's true or not.

hmm.. does this apply just to the official webcasts, or can people in the audience continue to type in live feeds so that the rest of us can find out what's going on real time from our desks?

dave

Re:why?

[yabos]

It can't be any more expensive than it will be to broadcast it after the event, which they plan on doing.

Re:why?

[John Harrison]

how is that? It is more expensive to provide massive bandwidth to a bunch of people all at the same time than it is to have people download the same amount spread out over a week or so.

Re:why?

[myrdred]

Two? I counted 4.

First, the slideshow not working from the remote control.
Then the internet not working for the guy that wanted to show controlling your TV recording from the net.
Then, the blue screen on that car game.
Finally, Conan getting like 5fps on that game at the end (when he finally got unstuck), when Bill was getting normal (high fps).

Re:why?

[Lars T.]

Even with the huge Akamai magic-behind-the-curtain, the Apple live webcasts always had too many damn dropped frames, because there are too many users at one time. Whcih is why this is not the first not to be webcast live. They all end up here anyway.

Re:why?

[wdlindmeier]

On a recent Engadget podcast, Phil Torrone mentioned a rumor that attendees were planning on standing up during Steve's keynote and yell "Stop suing us!" in response to the recent salvo of lawsuits Apple has filed. Maybe Steve doesn't want to give them a venue.

Re:why?

[HTH NE1]

Did Apple ever hear of SwarmStream, or BitTorrent?

Last I checked, neither of those were suitable for live streaming video.

Apple has its own QuickTime streaming server, so the cost of the technology is not an issue.

Re:why?

[shotfeel]

Note that this isn't just about the network streaming, its about the live satellite broadcast they normally do. I don't know how much that costs them.

Re:why?

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah because interupting a presentation isn't childish. leave heckling to circus acts and comedy routines...

Re:why?

[aminorex]

The cost of bandwidth might be what the prior commentator was referring to. Hence I suggested a low-hosting cost vehicle for delivering video.
I don't see any reason why it matters whether it is live or canned, from the perspective of the downloader.

All I want to know is

[slot32]

is this $500 'thing' or Apple Inc. going to be a Microsoft Media Center competitor, and will it (for the UK) come with a freeview card to record 'digital' freeview TV?!?!?!?!

Re:All I want to know is

[Xargle]

All you need to know is they'll price it at £699 in the UK despite the dollar rate.

Re:All I want to know is

[Cmdr TECO]

eMac: $799 vs £467 = $875: 9% difference
iBook: $999 vs £595 = $1110: 11% difference
iMac G5: $1299 vs £785 = $1450: 12% difference

I'd guess a $500 Mac would sell for around £350.

Happened Before

[cyngus]

You know, there has been this concern in some previous years too and every year there has ended up being a live webcast. I suppose its possible, but I seriously doubt it. During almost every keynote, Jobs starts out with, "Welcome to MacWorld, we have XX thousand people attending, and another XXX thousand people watching this keynote throughout the world on the web."

I certainly hope there is a webcast, otherwise what will I do at work for those two hours? Actually write code? Bahhh.

Re:Happened Before

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this a "concern"...

Re:Happened Before

[mausmalone]

Can I have your job? I'll actually work. Right now I'm waiting for the next assignment to roll in while getting screwed on part time wages and having other companies ignore my resume entirely. And I actually want to do the work.

Well...

[JavaMoose]

Hopefully some of the more adept Apple users will figure out a way to stream this.

I mean, shit, this is pratically begging for someone to use their Powerbook and iSight to do this.

Re:Well...

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

And that way, Apple will have somebody else to sue.

Re:Well...

[JavaMoose]

Unless there is an agreement posted, or signed, saying that no part of this can be rebroadcast vlah blah blah...

If that isn't in place, Apple wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

What would make no sense is, this is advertising FOR Apple by people who love Apple. If they are willing to foot the connection and hosting bills, Apple should THANK them, not sue them. Sadly, corporations never think this way.

Re:Well...

[tsangc]

What would make no sense is, this is advertising FOR Apple by people who love Apple. If they are willing to foot the connection and hosting bills, Apple should THANK them, not sue them. Sadly, corporations never think this way.

No, because it's not the message they want to convey, when they want to convey it.

Enthusiasts of any type, (Mac, Amiga, sports car fans) think any publicity is good for a company. It's not: Fans put their own spin on it, and their own filter over top. Even if it's a simple webcam broadcast, the fact that the public may view it on a blurry feed may ward off potential customers. A fan blog might highlight the wrong parts of the keynote, expecting a new sub-$500 Mac when the major announcement might be something else.

The other thing is the fan presence may not be the image Apple wants to use to sell their product. Dedicated, zealot fans often are not the proper spokespeople for a corporate venture. For example, I think many of the public are turned off by Star Trek because of the Trekkie fan base being so visible. Is that good for Paramount? If their entire viewership was Star Trek fans, sure. But they're not. UPN or Paramount counts on casual viewers to tune in and watch advertising.

Apple wants to convey a specific image through a marketing plan, in which the fanboy is not a key player.

Re:Well...

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I mean, shit, this is pratically begging for someone to use their Powerbook and iSight to do this.

Your PowerBook can serve a million streams? I think the bandwidth would kill you.

Re:Well...

[sky289hawk1]

cause THAT won't get slashdotted in a minute....

Re:Well...

[dragonman97]

You bet. With Quicktime Streaming Server, you can run Quicktime Broadcaster on your laptop, and transmit the live feed to the XServe running QTSS, which will redistribute it. It works pretty well, though I don't think we've had more than about 100 concurrent streams, so I can't speak for 'a million streams.'

Re:Well...

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Don't you think that there'd be more than 100 people interested in a pirate QT stream of a MacWorld keynote? From a PB no less? Guy didn't mention having an Xserve. That's my point entirely.

Seriously, though, how well did that scale? Was that video + sound over regular GigE? What kind of connection were your clients on? G4, G5, singular or dual CPU? How much RAM? I knew that this would work, but I have a hard time knowing how many streams you could push off a single Xserve before it crapped out...

Re:Well...

[dragonman97]

I don't know how well it would scale, honestly*. I'm not running that big/popular a streaming production. I'm about to do another stream tomorrow - I'll have to find out how many people connect. The setup is this: DV cam plugged into iBook G4 via Firewire. Laptop is connected to the Internet on a T1 or faster. QT Broacaster connects to QTSS running on the XServe at work, sitting on a healthy sized pipe, and all the clients connect to that. I have no idea what the clients are running - they all connect from their home computers for the most part, and I don't really care what they're running - it's not my job to know - just to keep the network part running. It's a really nice and simple setup that does impress me quite a bit.

And w.r.t. "Guy didn't mention having an Xserve.": You're right, he didn't. But, I'd call it damn near impossible to get more than a handful of clients right to a machine on a wireless connection, and it's unlikely that it could even receive requests (behind NAT). My answer addresses the fact that it is reasonably doable to stream this event using a Mac laptop using wireless**. :-) All you need is access to an XServe, running QTSS (which comes with OS X Server).

*A google search just turned this up, though:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?a rtnum=249 37 [remove /. spaces]
I suppose you could stream out to a /lot/ of users, so long as you keep the bitrate down.

**This works fine behind a NAT firewall, as you only connect with/transmit to the XServe, so it works with just about any Internet connection.

Re:Well...

[Johnny Mnemonic]

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=249 37 [remove /. spaces] I suppose you could stream out to a /lot/ of users, so long as you keep the bitrate down.

Thanks! I know what Apple says, but I was curious how that matched reality. I'd be interested to see how your stream goes tomorrow!

Blog

[JohnGrahamCumming]

Apple probably figured they didn't need to waste the money on the web cast because the audience will be filled with Apple fan boi bloggers uploading Jobs' comments in real time and streaming iSight video.

John.

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

At first, I thought your comment was a typical troll. But after thinking about it for a second, it's probably not far from the truth actually :-)

Re:Blog

[Halo1]

IIRC the wireless network in the keynote room is taken down for the duration of the keynote (at least it was on previous occasions).

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

score!

Re:Blog

[Threni]

> IIRC the wireless network in the keynote room is taken down for the duration of
> the keynote (at least it was on previous occasions).

How do they propose to prevent journalists/fans from simply using a digital camera to record it and them upload it shortly afterwards.

My handy prediction - if a single thing goes wrong during his speech it'll be on the net the same day.

Re:Blog

[Halo1]

How do they propose to prevent journalists/fans from simply using a digital camera to record it and them upload it shortly afterwards.

Maybe they borrowed the RIAA's night vision goggles.

My handy prediction - if a single thing goes wrong during his speech it'll be on the net the same day.

I doubt it has anything to do with Jobs being scared that something might go wrong. Not that nothing can go wrong or that it is even unlikely, but I don't see why that risk would be bigger this time than previous times.

If anything, it seems more likely to me that it's because Jobs is angry that the rumour sites stole his thunder.

Re:Blog

[nbvb]

http://www.verizonwireless.com/broadbandaccess/

Even at 1xRTT speeds, that's still 'good enough' to get data out.

Re:Blog

[SilentChris]

"IIRC the wireless network in the keynote room is taken down for the duration of the keynote (at least it was on previous occasions)."

Uh, WHY? Doesn't Apple want that information out there at that point? It's not like it's secret anymore.

Re:Blog

[Halo1]

I don't know why. That's just how it is, if I remember correctly.

Re:Blog

[squiggleslash]

The last few times I followed a Steve Note it was via MacRumors who were doing live updates of their website and presenting an IRC feed (IRC didn't really work for it as 90% of the text that'd scroll up your screen would be

* ^7eetLu5er has joined channel #macrumors
* _MacSux0r_ has joined channel #macrumors
<MacRumors> It's got a G5
* ASL21M781 has joined channel #macrumors
* ^subf^ has joined channel #macrumors
* SexyM^^ has joined channel #macrumors
* pr0n4free has joined channel #macrumors
* slashbot has joined channel #macrumors
<MacRumors> He's demonstrating the on switch now. It's touch sensitive. Wow.
* ASL21M781 has left channel #macrumors
* ASL21M781 has joined channel #macrumors
* MacHead69 has joined channel #macrumors
* AmigaFan has joined channel #macrumors
* USA4EVER! has joined channel #macrumors
<MacRumors> Steve's saying the On switch on different models will be different colors.
* HuggyBear has joined channel #macrumors
* CmdrTaco has joined channel #macrumors
* Pudge has joined channel #macrumors
* Pudge^ has joined channel #macrumors
* Pudge has disconnected (Ping timeout)
* CmdrTaco^ has joined channel #macrumors
* Pudge^ is now known as Pudge
<MacRumors> Ok, it's booting up. The Apple logo has just come up and it looks bigger for some reason... might be the screen resolution's set too low.
* CmdrTaco has disconnected (Error 503)
* MacHead69 has left channel #macrumors
* CmdrTaco^ is now known as CmdrTaco

...you get the idea.

But they've definitely been able to do live updates before on virtually every Stevenote I've followed.

The other option, of course, would be GPRS or some other mobile phone network connection...

Re:Blog

[Halo1]

They did so because they were either watching the video stream, or the satellite feed.

Re:Blog

[squiggleslash]

I don't believe there was either for the last Keynote. In any case, I recall them saying the IRC feed was from their man actually at the event (with the usual c---waving about the specs of the PowerBook being used, etc)

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have just turned off enter and exit notification. n00b

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll.

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

I spent a few minutes trying to, but couldn't find the right command and ircII's help sucks.

How's it done?

Re:Blog

[Anonymous Coward]

How do they propose to prevent journalists/fans from simply using a digital camera to record it and them upload it shortly afterwards.

They don't.

Apple usually posts the keynote on their website after it's finished, the only reason I can see why they would turn off the WiFi for would be to stop the 'play-by-play' updates, but even that can be solved with a cellphone and bluetooth.

Re:Blog

[drinkypoo]

*** You must specify one of the following:
*** ALL MSGS PUBLIC WALLS WALLOPS INVITES NOTICES NOTES CTCPS TOPICS NICKS JOINS PARTS CRAP NONE REASON "&lt;reason&gt;"

'Nuff said.

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:Blog

[zonker]

My handy prediction - if a single thing goes wrong during his speech it'll be on the net the same day.

you're a real criswell aren't you? ;p

Summary

[MosesJones]

It costs a lot of money for the six people who view it live over a webcast to be supported. Its cheaper to record it, encode it, then host it as a file on the server.

Re:Summary

[Dethdoc]

Our user's group rents out a local pizza parlor for a lunch plus Keynote party. The keynote is also viewed in the Computer center on the U of Wisconsin campus. There are a LOT more than 6 people watching.

Re:Summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerd

Re:Summary

[HeghmoH]

That's a nice theory, except that Apple typically streams to tens of thousands of simultaneous watchers during these events.

Re:Summary

[eclectro]

It costs a lot of money for the six people who view it live over a webcast to be supported. Its cheaper to record it, encode it, then host it as a file on the server

What's more you can perform critical product enhancing edits while taking care of any "Balmer Monkey Dance" (google it) that may occur.

Once again Apple is showing it's brilliance.

Re:Summary

[godlikenerddotcom]

Nerd

I must be missing something. We're both reading Slashdot right?

Re:Summary

[zbaron]

i'm pretty sure, but cannot dig up the numbers now, but a previous MW keynote currently holds the record for the most simultaneous streams being viewed. somewhere over 60,000 i believe.

Re:Summary

[Kardnal]

It costs a lot of money for the six people who view it live over a webcast to be supported. Its cheaper to record it, encode it, then host it as a file on the server.

6 People?!?! Were you not around last year, when /. itself got taken down by the hoards of people looking for Keynote information in real time???? I think it was the first time I'd ever seen slashdot get slashdotted (or in the words of one poster: "Dude, slashdot didn't get slashdotted. Slashdot got Apple'd")

If there enough people interested in it to bring down *slashdot*, then I think it's a fair guess that there are thousands which want to watch it live themselves.

Oh, and they announce the numbers for the webcasts, and they're always in the 100's of thousands, so there's that too.

What I want to know is why there's not Satelite feed. It's not like it costs them much to broadcast it, and they normally send it to all their stores so you can watch it there.

Aww.

[skinfitz]

Somebody is taking his ball in.

Re:Aww.

[vonFinkelstien]

That's exactly what I thought when I read about this on MacSlash.

Apple's having sour grapes over the leaked product(s) info.

Re:Aww.

[Anonymous Coward]

Aww, how cute. Someone has no clue what they're talking about but wants to pretend they do.

All you need to know...

[rebeka thomas]

All you need to know is that this fallacious "Sub $500 mac" is not going to happen. Period.

see billpalmer.net for more information. It makes no sense for Apple to make, it has no market to fit in, and even if it did they couldn't make it for the cost some rumormonger has conjured up out of nowhere.

Re:All you need to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

> All you need to know is that this fallacious "Sub $500 mac" is
> not going to happen. Period.
>
> see billpalmer.net for more information.

No, see billpalmer.net for more *opinion*. He has no inside information.

> It makes no sense for Apple to make, it has no market to fit
> in, and even if it did they couldn't make it for the cost some
> rumormonger has conjured up out of nowhere.

It makes perfect sense for Apple to make, and from the excitement caused by this rumour there obviously is a market for it. As for the cost, Apple is quite able to make it for the rumoured price, they'd just have to forego some of their usual extortionate profit margins.

Re:All you need to know...

[AKnightCowboy]

A G4 with 256MB of RAM and an 80GB hard drive and a combo drive is a very low-end system. They could easily put it out there for under $500. The software of course costs nothing to them since they're just bundling their own OS and Appleworks, iLife, and some game demos, etc.

Re:All you need to know...

[araemo]

And despite it being a very low-end system, it should perform pretty well.

I bought my mother a 667 Mhz/256MB G4 tower a few years back because she knew Macs already, and it is still quite competant for email, web, photoshop/pagemaker, scanning/etc... double the speed and the ability to double(Or better?) the ram and I'd expect it to be pretty decent.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

With the greatest of respect, as I said yesterday, Bill Palmer is arrogant and doesn't exactly put together a sane argument.

This paragraph says it all:

It's not all that difficult to figure out. The eMac already is the "Switcher vehicle" that the delusionals keep talking about, they just don't know it. In delusionland, the eMac is being rejected by potential Switchers because it has a built-in monitor. But in reality, Windows users are already Switching to the eMac, in droves for that matter. All you have to do is stick your head outside the delusionland bubble for a few minutes in order to get a whiff of just how many people have already switched.

By all accounts the eMac is Apple's poorest selling Mac in the consumer sphere. Oh sure, it has some educational buyers, and probably outsells the xServe, but in terms of so-called consumer Macintoshes being bought by actual consumers, it's a lemon. It's an ugly box that forces you to have a giant 17" monitor with it at a time when ordinary users - not just geeks, not just trendy Mac users - are running out and buying LCD flat panels in droves.

I know many, many, people who will not buy a Mac because of the high cost of entry. And when I say "Well, you can always get an eMac, they start at just $800", they always point out the monitor. It's not even as if you can throw away the monitor, it's there, even if you decide not to use it. Of course, Bill "Delusional" Palmer seems to think that this is a delusion on my part, that the many, many, people saying that they've made this argument and got this reply are deluding themselves. Well, there's either something very strong in the water and Palmer is a bottled water freak, or it's Mr Palmer that's living in a fantasy world.

So your comment

It makes no sense for Apple to make, it has no market to fit in

is just plain bogus. It does have a market, it's an entry level Mac. Right now Apple does not have an actual entry level desktop Macintosh. It has a Mac built for the education market that's kind of cheap, and it has an entry level laptop, but nothing in the entry level desktop area that works for general consumers. That's why Apple's marketshare is poor at the moment, so poor it's being beaten out by GNU/Linux, currently the ultimate niche product.

As for the price, I agree it will not be $500. But those arguing that the headless iMac isn't real usually argue the product isn't real, not the price. The price is speculation. Realistically, we're looking at $600-700. At that price, it'll still be entry level, it'll still, despite the misgivings of those looking at specs alone, be low enough to attract substantial sales.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

G4s themselves are still relatively expensive. When Apple was switching to the 970, a lot of the speculation was that Apple would want this to happen as quickly as practically possible because they'd save money by doing it.

This isn't to say the device will have a 970, just that I'm currently doubting the price is high enough to have a reasonable profit margin given the rumoured 1.2GHz CPU is probably 20-40% of the cost of the device. I'd be extremely surprised if it's under $600 (though disappointed if it's over $700)

Apple doesn't make commodity machines. They shouldn't either, it's a surefire way to doom your company.

Re:All you need to know...

[Junior J. Junior III]

Not taking bulk quanity reseller pricing into account, right now, I can buy:

256MB DDR RAM can be had sub-$50
80GB HDD can be had for ~$40
Combo DVD/CD-RW drive for ~$30
So, we're already at $120 and counting

G4 processor and motherboard... not sure. Last I heard, the motherboard alone was around $400. They're not cheap like x86 PC motherboards because the market is small. And that does not include the cost of the processor. Let's figure that Apple can get these parts for significantly cheaper than you or I, though, and that these parts cost around $250

Plus you have to figure in the cost of the case and power supply. I'd guesstimate this to cost ~$50.

The OS doesn't cost Apple anything to bundle, but it does cost them to develop it and they're not just doing that for their health. Presumably they'd want to recoup something on the investment. For now, though, let's say they're giving out free crack in the hopes of hooking a few more Mac junkies, and give away the OS with the hardware, and no cost is factored in. They'll make up for it by charging for updates every year, anyway.

So now, we're up to $420. An $80 margin is barely making it worthwhile for Apple, considering all the R&D they have to put in to bring this product to market. But if every miniG4 buyer ends up becoming a Mac convert, and later on decides to buy a G5 (or a G6 or whatever is out by that time) it will have been well worth it for Apple. This is a venture to expand their marketshare, not just to compete with Dell.

Re:All you need to know...

[Bob McCown]

This is a perfect replacement for my folks aging iMac 350 DV that I got for them several years ago. They knew about it before I told them.

Re:All you need to know...

[yabos]

I would say that they would have already had a significant amount of their design worked out before even starting this project, if true. They already have the G4 iBook and the old G4 XServe, which they could adapt to fit in this enclosure.

Just delete a few of the XServe components and they could have this machine done.

Re:All you need to know...

[SnapShot]

You forgot one component. There needs to be a video card strong enough to handle (at least) the 23" Apple CinemaDisplay or the MB should have built-in video that supports it.

You can up your margins a bit if some non-trivial fraction of the min-iMac (damn, I should have been a marketeer) buys a nice, expensive (and very cool) Apple flat screen.

Re:All you need to know...

[iBod]

Agree about eMac.

I have no idea what posessed Apple to offer the eMac at all. It's an ugly, heavy, out-of-date monster - and still too expensive.

Maybe Apple had a big stock of 17" CRT tubes to use up somewhere ;)

Who the hell would switch to an eMac when the new flat iMacs are available for not much more (unless buying in very large quantities)?

Re:All you need to know...

[Glock27]

Let's figure that Apple can get these parts for significantly cheaper than you or I, though, and that these parts cost around $250

Oh, they can. I'd estimate the cost at no more than $180, possibly lower than $150. They have volume - the are probably the biggest single consumer of Motorola processors.

Regardless, as you point out, even with an $80 margin it's a worthwhile venture for Apple.

Re:All you need to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to save this post for Tuesday morning after the $500 iMac Mini has been rolled out. Then I'm going to print it out and use it to wipe the poster's haughty I-know-all smirk off her face.

Re:All you need to know...

[stupidfoo]

Apple doesn't make commodity machines. They shouldn't either, it's a surefire way to doom your company.

Good point. Look what it's done to Dell.

Re:All you need to know...

[BTWR]

the eMac is Apple's poorest selling Mac in the consumer sphere

Wasn't the Mac Cube a huge flop? We have one at the hospital, and it's pretty sweet (as small as a gamecube, and no fan, so it's silent).

Then again, the eMac and Cube were merely underpreformers. They were certainly not flops in the Apple III/Lisa/Newton sense.

Re:All you need to know...

[Junior J. Junior III]

Ah, good point. I was assuming that this system would use integrated graphics and would not be expandable, much like the iMac G5.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

Well, the Cube isn't part of Apple's current line up, so I didn't mention it. The Cube's big problem was that everyone I knew wanted one, but didn't want Mac OS 9 (OS X was still a year or so away) and certainly didn't think it was worth the mid $1,xxx price it carried.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

Dell is the exception. Look, instead, at what it's done to IBM, Gateway, Escom, Commodore (Commodore would probably still be with us if it wasn't for their blunder into PC manufacturing), et al. Look at how Compaq and HP felt the only way they could remain in the market was to merge, reducing the competition a little.

Dell has a particular formula for success but they're extremely vulnerable. Slight market adjustments could cause HP to succeed and Dell to Chapter 11, or vice versa.

You don't want to get into a commodity market if you don't have to. It's one of the first rules of business. Apple has no reason to enter a commodity market, they merely need to create a machine that will attract significant customers. It can be underpowered relative to commodity PCs, as long as the price is low and the reputation (through products like OS X) is good enough.

Re:All you need to know...

[TylerL82]

Apple likes to keep its margin around 25%, so dropping to 16% would be a change from the norm.

Re:All you need to know...

[SlamMan]

Thats because the Cube started out costing between $1800 and $2300. When PowerMacs at the time ran for the same price, it was a foolish luxury computer, instead of a product that would actually sell.

Re:All you need to know...

[x736e65616b]

Something to consider is that the margins in this market segment (the sub-$500 pc) are much much less than almost everywhere else in the industry - it's likely that Apple is taking this into account as well.

It's not like Dell or anyone else can make 25% on a $499 box, either.

It's all about the volume. The "iPod factor" will play a really big role here, I think, as most of the news articles have already noted.

-j

Re:All you need to know...

[NormalVisual]

They're not getting into a commodity market, though - the difference here is that we're talking about a low-end Mac. Apple's not trying to make the same low-end Windows-compatible PC that everyone and their dog is. Apple will be the *only* game in town for their machine, and I'm sure that a lot of people have really wanted to own a Mac, but have been put off by the high prices - this will get a lot of those dollars into Apple's pocket instead of Dell's. Getting some low-cost machines out there will also gain them more market share, which will make developers more apt to write for OS X, and will likely result in better sales for the high-end Macs too. With Apple manufacturing the machines, they'll be less vulnerable to a lot of the driver issues and such that plague Windows boxes - I suspect this is the reason Apple has chosen to make their own boxes rather than simply porting OS X to the Intel architecture.

I disagree with the comment about Commodore - I believe Commodore's failure is almost completely due to them being incompetent WRT marketing the Amiga, and the subsequent failure to maintain the Amiga's technical superiority as time went on.

Re:All you need to know...

[tsangc]

Regardless, as you point out, even with an $80 margin it's a worthwhile venture for Apple.

Unless it cuts away from higher margin iMac sales or delays upgrades to G5 Towers. You have to remember there's a product portfolio to manage, not just simple profit on each machine.

Re:All you need to know...

[jlaxson]

I was really hoping it'd have PCI so I can drop in a TV tuner or two, and make it my set top PVR box.

Re:All you need to know...

[tlhIngan]

Oh, they can. I'd estimate the cost at no more than $180, possibly lower than $150. They have volume - the are probably the biggest single consumer of Motorola processors.

Actually, it was Motorola that let Apple down (which is why they started courting IBM's CPUs). Apple is *NOT* Motorola's biggest customer (though, they probably were the ones pushing for faster CPUs). Motorola's largest customers are the like of Cisco and the various subcontractors of the US military (who do like PowerPCs).

Apple had a hard enough time trying to get fast CPUs from Motorola that lead to the decline in performance (there was a time when PowerPC was megahertz-by-megahertz at par with, or faster than x86 parts available.) Motorola basically decided it was far more profitable to sell PowerPCs for embedded computing platforms (e.g., scientific VME backplanes, routers, etc), rather than as a desktop CPU. (Where else would you find a 1.5GHz CPU hobbled by a puny 166MHz bus? Even given it's 32-bit unidirectional (thus two 166MHz links), it's still an awkward combination, and is more of a bottleneck than RAM is.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

A commodity market is one where the market dictates that the price of the product has to be close to its production cost. If Apple believes that $500 is the market price for this device, and it costs something close to that to build, then they're making a commodity machine. Remember there's the PC market, and then there's the broader market, the market for people's dollars.

I think Apple can sell the machine for more than $500.

As far as Commodore goes, the Amiga line was profitable, no matter how badly Commodore mismanaged or mismarketed it. Commodore never made a commodity Amiga, they always priced substantially above cost price, and made a healthy profit on virtually every model. Commodore overstretched themselves because their managers believed that the Amiga's future couldn't be guaranteed and that PCs were the way to go, so they put an extremely loss making toe in that water.

Those who argue Commodore failed because of poor marketing tend to make somewhat dubious assumptions about the platform. As Apple has proved, you do not need a huge market share to survive and be profitable, and the Amiga, at the time of Commodore's bankruptsy, had a much higher market share in the personal computer market as a whole than Apple does now. They could have survived, long term they'd have needed to get rid of some of the idiots Irving Gould was appointing, but they could have survived had they not lost so much money in trying to produce IBM compatables.

Re:All you need to know...

[johnpaul191]

it's all about bulk pricing. when the first iPod came out the bare drives would cost an individual almost as much as a whole iPod. the drive in a USB2 case was the same as an iPod.

the rumored specs for the headless device are roughly that of the current $800 eMac. one theory i heard is that the eMac will be jumping to a low end G5. that would explain why a machine that's roughly an eMac (spec-wise) would be $200 or $300 less with no 17" crt. generally when Apple comes out with an update to a machine the pricing is about the same and the components hop. so the new G5 eMac will be $800 or $900 whenever it comes out. right now the eMac is the only desktop machine running G4 chips.
granted Apple sells a lot of laptops relative to desktops (about 50/50 i think?) but they have everything worked out in the eMac. they just have to reshape it and box it up.

that is.... if there is any truth to the story at all?

Re:All you need to know...

[kulakovich]

Aha! - but if you use all the RAM people send back when they want a GB instead of the amount their G4 shipped with... it's free!

kulakovich

Re:All you need to know...

[badmammajamma]

I can assure you that your price estimates are much higher than what Apple pays. They can easily build the device for well under $500. Their cost hit is going to be in the marketing of such a device. If the point is to lure PC buyers to the Mac platform, they will have to advertise like mad. This will cost them dearly. They will lose money on it because of marketing costs but they will make it back in the long run if they can convert some of the PC people out there. And basically, anyone who isn't a gamer is a good candidate for the Mac.

Re:All you need to know...

[Junior J. Junior III]

I'm sure my estimates are all much higher, which is why I prefaced the comment with "Not taking bulk quanity reseller pricing into account..."

Re:All you need to know...

[xgamer04]

GNU/Linux, currently the ultimate niche product.

So FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, QNX, BeOS/Haiku, ReactOS, and GNU/HURD are less niche than GNU/Linux?

Re:All you need to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, ok, they're just as niche when it comes down to it. Of the bunch, for those in the same market as GNU/Linux, GNU/Linux currently has the highest market share.

The point is that GNU/Linux is not some universal product like the Mac or Windows PC, both of which are aimed at as many potential users as possible. GNU/Linux is "aimed" at geeks.

Re:All you need to know...

[lakeland]

You missed the G5 iMac which is working very well as a switching product. Sure, it isn't a bargain entry level computer but then neither is the iPod a bargain entry level music player.

At $1900 it costs a little more than a similar white box PC. The monitor will set you back almost $800, and the system will set you back about $900, then $100 for XP. And that's with a standard SFF box, not with the CPU integrated into the monitor.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

You missed the G5 iMac which is working very well as a switching product.

If the $800 eMac isn't, how exactly can a mid-$1,xxx's product do that?

As you say in your very next sentence, it certainly isn't a bargain entry level computer. Indeed, it's not even an entry level computer. And the iPod, while on the high end of MP3 player prices, is certainly not in four digits. It's well within the general consumer electronics budget.

$1,900 (to use your figure, thankfully iMacs do start a little cheaper than that) is a huge amount of money to spend on what's essentially a leap into the dark. Average PC users have never used Macs, they have no idea if they're any good, they're told they are, but they know a few downsides already such as the lack of compatability with what they use at the office. Ultimately they're willing to spend a certain amount to try something new, but $1,300? That's a lot of cash for something that might end up being replaced within a year of buying it.

I can tell you for certain that the people I know on all sides of the fence consider the eMac "not what they want" and the iMac G5 "a massive investment that they're not going to be able to afford for a long time, and why should I if I can upgrade my current PC anyway and keep my old software and maybe try this Lunix thing?"

And I don't know where you buy monitors from, but I can tell you I wouldn't spend $800 on a monitor. Yes, sure, the iMac comes with a very nice one built-in of the kind that may cost $800 or more, but - shock, horror - most people wouldn't actually buy such a monitor ordinarily. We'll have a nice 17" 1280x1024 LCD or < 15" 1024x768 if one's available, as that's more than adequate for what we want to use the machine for.

And that's with a standard SFF box, not with the CPU integrated into the monitor.

I know, Apple has no chance, right?

Or did you mean that would be considered a feature? Most people - including "Grandma" - ditched non-modular machines in the late eighties and early nineties.

Re:All you need to know...

[MayorDefacto]

Apple likes to keep its margin around 25%, so dropping to 16% would be a change from the norm.

Yes, but this is more of a mass-market product than any of Apple's other systems. Whatever defecit in margin there is can be offset by higher volume.

Re:All you need to know...

[Zhe Mappel]

see billpalmer.net for more information.

I took your advice, but was instantly assailed with:

Alright, I've said all I'm going to say about the headless iMac nonsense (at least until after it doesn't get announced at the Keynote on Tuesday), as I think I've made my position abundantly clear, and I've grown a bit tired of making my point again and again. And at this point I'd have to imagine that many of you are as sick of hearing about it as I am.

Whew! Now we know what's rarer than a sub-$500 headless iMac. The first recorded case of male PMS.

Re:All you need to know...

[squiggleslash]

Please permit me to be the first to point at Bill Palmer in a Nelson-like pose and say "Har-har!"

The Mac mini exists. It's about the size of a CD ROM drive! Now let's hope the price is reasonable.

Re:All you need to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

>> All you need to know is that this fallacious "Sub $500 mac" is not going to happen. Period.

Oh really?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/11/macworld _2 005_keynote/

what's the big fricken deal?

[REBloomfield]

it's being posted as a file later on, you can watch it as many damn times as you like then. Is this really bl**dy news??

Re:what's the big fricken deal?

[fdobbie]

You have to be enough of a fanboy to watch it live... If you already know what's going to happen, where's the fun in watching it at all?

Re:what's the big fricken deal?

[superflippy]

Our Mac User Group has plans to get together and eat pizza while watching the webcast (we're EST so it's right at lunchtime for us). I suppose we could refresh a blog page every couple of minutes, but that's not nearly as fun as watching and commenting on the speech itself and the audience's reaction, MST3K style.

And if we wait until later to watch it, the pizza will get cold.

Re:what's the big fricken deal?

[awtbfb]

Clearly someone who has never experienced the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.

Buy Plane tickets???

[garethwi]

you now have no choice but to buy your plane tickets to San Francisco ASAP

Or wait until the stream is released the next day.

Re:Buy Plane tickets???

[SuperBanana]

Or wait until the stream is released the next day.

Not exactly a 'stream', now is it?

I didn't read the article (this IS slashdot), but I suspect the feed will only be available in stores.

Re:Buy Plane tickets???

[Anonymous Coward]

It won't be a live stream, but it's still being streamed to you.

What I want to know is...

[Lurker McLurker]

Are there any videos of this speech?

Re:What I want to know is...

[Saven Marek]

Yes the whole speech with bill gates and his blue screen PC is here to watch, at 300kbps

Updated Macintosh Security News

Re:What I want to know is...

[Barryke]

*sigh* its 1:20:22 long

there's a google and bill (millhouse) reference somewhere at 12:00

bill enters at 13:30

media center runs at 32:00
media center internet access glitch at 40:00

Now the fun part:

LOL at 55:00
she said 'note that all of these demonstrations worked, thats a great thing'

the game crashes at 1:13:00
again, when bill and that other guy raced it went 1fps at 1:15:30

personaly - i dont blame them - when you're making bigger things, bad luck gets bigger too; exponentionaly.

Note to the english language demons that are going to sue me: foregive me.

What is the attraction?

[Malc]

"If you were hoping to watch Stevie present [...], you now have no choice but to buy your plane tickets to San Francisco ASAP."

Errr, why bother? I can think of many reasons to go to San Francisco as it's a great place, but this isn't one of them. Everything he announces will be on te internet in short measure anyway. What is the attraction?

Re:What is the attraction?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're obviously not an Apple fanboi. You'd know what the attraction is otherwise - essentially being in the Moscone Center, in front of Great Wizard Steve, in the middle of a gigantic crowd of followers, all with their pants down, jacking off in front of their demigod.

Re:What is the attraction?

[godlikenerddotcom]

Meanwhile, you're at home in your parent's basement getting off to that thought. I'm not sure which thought is more disturbing.

Re:What is the attraction?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could most mac users just call a cab?

Re:What is the attraction?

[jamesmrankinjr]

What is the attraction?

A Steve Jobs keynote is performance art. It's salesmanship taken to it's ultimate height. It's better rehearsed and staged than a Broadway musical. There's suspense, drama, comedy.

If any actor on Broadway or Hollywood could perform this well, they would quit and immediately start doing what Steve does. Because there's more fame, praise, adulation, and money in it than whatever they're currently doing.

Peace be with you,
-jimbo

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[vonFinkelstien]

And most of all, their treatment of people who dare take them to task for faulty hardware is horrendous (remember the dead battery fiasco?).

Like how Apple paid for the shipping and repair of my iBook with a faulty logic board free of charge although I didn't have AppleCare and my warranty was expired. And how they even sent of a loaner iBook (with a faster processor and more RAM) to use while they fixed it.

Apple takes care of its customers better than most other computer companies.

Re:Whaaa?

[ivano]

well not to sound like a fanboy but Steve is a damn good speaker/presenter. he doesn't behave like a monkey to get people motivated. he doesn't "umm" and "ah" his way through it. He's cool and polished. And to be honest what's better than seeing a demo or the product itself than waiting for it to be "filterd" by the media. I want demos not snide comments by a 95% Windows dominated media (qv iPod-killer stories).

Ciao

Motorola

[vonFinkelstien]

Motorola has already debuted its new phone at CES.

Re:Motorola

[White Roses]

Joke's on you, they didn't.

Oh, come on...

[liangzai]

This is planted, just to get more attraction to the event. You don't know Mr. Jobs very well, do you?

Rumors, law suits, cancellations, more rumors... it all adds up to an exciting climax.

Re:Oh, come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to talk with him, go in the secret room in back. (need to know the knock) It is where all the herb friendly mac employees go to take care of business.....

Alternatively..

[Chicane-UK]

You can hang around on any of the Mac rumour sites, who usually have people at the shows connected via WiFi reporting on exactly whats going on - either via frequent updates to a webpage or on an IRC channel.

Thats what i've done for the last few Mac shows where big announcements were expected :)

Re:Alternatively..

[pHatidic]

I'll bet 10 bucks that Jobs uncancels the live streaming the day before the keynote and that this whole thing was just to build hype and get more people to watch it.

revenge

[geirtbr]

this is apple's revenge over the apple fanatics, after fan sites snitched details about the new upcoming product releases

Get over it.

[trudyscousin]

I can only guess that the reason the keynote isn't being transmitted is because of the recent lawsuits that have been flying in both directions of late. Not so much a reason, but perhaps it's Mr. Jobs' pique instead?

Regardless, anything important enough that's announced, I can find out at the end of the day on Macintouch. It's not that important.

Besides that, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken (sort of), one goes to MacWorld for many of the reasons one goes to the zoo. Except that there's a much better zoo in San Diego; maybe I'll do that instead while MacWorld's going on.

To big an audience?

[CrackedButter]

From all accounts, there is huge interest in this macworld, its being hyped up and they might fear that the webcast cannot handle any sort of predicted load. Instead they will just release it later after all the fanfare and the need to watch it dies away. Just as everyone says, it'll be out on the net anyway moments after the annoucement.
In any case I'll stay off the mac websites until its out for streaming, I want to be equally disappointed like I was last year when GarageBand was demoed for something like 2 hours with some no name artist looking interested. :)

Re:To big an audience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I could understand if they expected problems with the webcasting due to a surge in people tuning in to watch it due to all the rumors and hype surrounding the event lately. However, that still doesn't explain why they would not transmit the event via satellite (which could even prevent the Apple Stores from presenting the event). You'd think that this event would be an opportunity to draw existing and potential customers into their stores (and maybe make some sales while they are there).

Re:To big an audience?

[NardofDoom]

John Mayer is a no-name artist? What fucking rock have you been hiding under?

Re:To big an audience?

[fdobbie]

Apple was one of the early investors in Akamai and they've been using their streaming services for many years...

Their event streaming entry point is even http://stream.apple.akadns.net/ (although that's still pointing to the Music Event from a few months back).

Re:To big an audience?

[Anonymous Coward]

I read his VH1 write up; recognized all the artists mentioned except John... I'd say he's pretty no-name :P

Re:To big an audience?

[CrackedButter]

He is probably very big in the US, but I live in the UK. However, I didn't take that into account in my original post anyway. Whoops, please forgive if I offended!

Re:To big an audience?

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless, the demo took forever.

Steve: Well, John Mayer, would you like to jam with me?
John: (waiting for Teleprompter) Yes, Steve, I would, totally like to. Just let me get out my (waiting for Teleprompter) guitar.
Steve: And John Mayer can plug his guitar in using USB!
John: (waiting) Yes I like ... (waiting) UBS.
Steve: Now we can jam!
John: Wow this Mac is like totally (waiting) rad.

They simply didn't pay him enough to give a shit.

Re:To big an audience?

[byolinux]

I live in the UK. I knew who he was.

Back under your rock.

Re:To big an audience?

[CrackedButter]

*clutches handbag* Ooooooo...

Re:To big an audience?

[drinkypoo]

Why not just stop allowing users to connect when the streaming server is too loaded? Can Quicktime's streaming server not accomplish this?

Re:To big an audience?

[Ohreally_factor]

Hey, get your own fuckin' rock!! This one's mine! =)

I didn't know who he was either, at the time, and I too thought the Garage Band portion of the presentation was weak.

Re:Whaaa?

[WIAKywbfatw]

You know Roland, you'd come across as far more credible in your quest to present yourself as a journalist if you could spell simple words like "rinse" correctly.

Don't you deal with Apple news on your site? If you do then you've probably just lost a few readers by suggesting that this is "obviously only of interest to Steve Jobs and Apple devotees", and they won't all be Apple fanatics: I'm sure there are plenty of non-devotees, including the CEOs of companies like Microsoft, Adobe, RealNetworks, Creative, HP and Sun to name but a few who pay close attention to what Jobs has to say.

Apple Nixes Live Webcast, Satellite Feed

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh fuck, the sky is falling.

Blue screen of death crashes Gates at CES

[obender]

Torrent here

Re:Blue screen of death crashes Gates at CES

[Walrus99]

Anything in Quicktime or RealPlayer???

Re:Blue screen of death crashes Gates at CES

[Anonymous Coward]

Load the video into WMP Pro, right click and choose "export". you can export to .mpg which will play in Quicktime.

You don't want to know...

[eMartin]

I'd expect there to be more than 6 people. Ever visit a Mac IRC channel during one of these things? ...
Ted: here it comes...
MacBoy: that wasn't so cool
iluvsteve: it's not small enough
lickable: i'm in love
gregmac: steve is hot
G6: what's happening now?!?!?
doug-eMac: OMGOMGOMGOMG
nickname: one more thing!
AppleDave: One more thing!!!
hax0r: he said "one more thing"
macdude: knew it! one more thing!
steveiloveyou: ONE MORE THING
iPaul: i bet it's the apple tv!
G6: i can't see the stream ;_;
yoda: onew moer thigns!!!!!
iluvsteve: one more thingg
BondiTed: there's one more thing!!1
MACSSUCK: YOU GUYS SUCK MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!
iDude: ha!
cindyjobs: one more thing!!!!
steve_: it's the icar!!!
mosesjones: one more thing!
applerules: better be a cheaper ipod!
freeipod: one more thing!
G6: i want to see!1
3macs: one more!!
i want steve: one more thing!!
penis: he said one more thing! ...

And this goes on for about 90 minutes with a hundred or so people repeating every line out of Steve's mouth!

And trust me when I say the Mac web forums are much worse.

Re:You don't want to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

rotflmao. The funniest comment I've ever read on Slashdot. So true. :)

/mac user

Re:You don't want to know...

[mattgreen]

The fact that this comment is marked Overrated just makes it even funnier, because that means it is true.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know Roland, you'd come across as far more credible in your quest to present yourself as a journalist

I am not on a quest to present myself as a journalist. You must be thinking of another Roland.

if you could spell simple words like "rinse" correctly.

Don't you ever make typos?

-- Roland

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Myuu]

Same here, and they replaced my keyboard (had a key missing) for free. The OP is just a troll, nothing more.

ThinkSecret?

[fisheye1969]

I wonder if this is something to do with the ThinkSecret case? Maybe Steve is p!ssed off at everyone but those who can prove their "loyalty" by attending? Hmm, as much as I love my iBook, I think I'll just read the reports. Is Mr Jobs really that good a speaker? Am I missing on the reality distortion field here?

Re:ThinkSecret?

[Sophrosyne]

I agree with you-- but Steve is a good speaker- when you listen to him you want his products... I was a windows user and after listening to him over the years I was sold.
http://stream.apple.akadns.net/
Check it out for yourself.

Re:ThinkSecret?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you-- but Steve is a good speaker- when you listen to him you want his products... I was a windows user and after listening to him over the years I was sold.

Translation: I am a sheep.

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Apple can't catch a break.

Re:Indeed

[HeghmoH]

Yeah, I mean, stuff like Spotlight, CoreImage/Video/Data, Quartz Extreme, and the entire Mac OS X system in general are so behind the times.

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Anonymous Coward]

I can feel the love. Apple's like a big, fuzzy teddy bear that pops an endless stream of Ecstacy tablets and goes around hugging everybody.

Keynote Protest

[iamacodemonkey]

This might have something to do with it... http://www.macobserver.com/article/2000/09/05.9.sh tml

Re:Keynote Protest

[iamacodemonkey]

er..bad link - anyhow, according to engadget podcast there are rumors of a protest due to Apple's recent sue-spree for product info leaks.

Re:Keynote Protest

[mabinogi]

A protest in PARIS, in 2000?

what exactly would that have to do with _anything_ in San Francisco in 2005?

Re:Keynote Protest

[iamacodemonkey]

as stated above: **bad link** - anyhow, according to engadget podcast there are rumors of a protest due to Apple's recent (2004) sue-spree for product info leaks. (such as ThinkSecret)

Re:Keynote Protest

[NardofDoom]

What's wrong with these people? Don't they realize that Apple is a company? I love my Macs, and I like being part of the community, and I'll dispute FUD till the cows come home, but I have no expectation that Apple somehow owes me something because I've owned a Mac since 1997.

What do they expect? Will they ask for receipts and give everyone who bought a Mac during the Amelio era a free iPod?

Boo hoo, they cancelled the London Expo and don't release a version that spells color with a 'u.' I've *never* had a Mac Expo in my city. Do I get to protest, too? Disrupting a keynote at a major conference will just make them look like a bunch of asshats.

If I were them I wouldn't worry about security throwing me out, I'd watch out for the people who have paid good money to see Jobs speak. Hell hath no fury like a Mac user who gets interrupted while drooling over new hardware.

Re:Keynote Protest

[stefanb]

This might have something to do with it... http://www.macobserver.com/article/2000/09/05.9.sh tml

Ahem... you did see the date on that, didn't you?

Re:Keynote Protest

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this 4, Informative? That link is from 2000, and has no relevance to this Macworld.

No market?

[iBod]

Lots of people are new to Apple products because of the iPod. Having seen the iPod and been impressed by it, they are now interested in buying Apple computers, but the entry level price point is a little high.

There's your market.

Re:No market?

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people say a Mac is too expensive; however, that is their opinion (not that that is the reason I would guess most of the time). My guess would be that most of those that wanted a computer (Mac, pc, sparc, etc) already have them. I would guess those that want one, don't have one for monetary reasons. So a low end computer in this range might be considered an option strictly due to only have so much money to buy with. I believe that is why all the cheap dells and gateways sell. People think, hey, Wal-Mart is selling them and it's only X dollars, that's cheap! Then people go and buy them. These are the people I believe would love a Mac. However you can't go to Wal-Mart, or dell, nor hp and buy one.

BDCrazy

Re:No market?

[iBod]

Firstly, iPods (and moreover mini iPods) can be had for less than $300.

Secondly, most people have different priorities when it comes to buying personal computers from the average /. reader and maybe already have a Windows PC, so the price incentive to switch must be a good one.

While all this talk of a $500 Mac may be pure speculation, I'm sure there us a market. It is whether Apple wish to play in this market that is the real question.

Why bother?

[Laurentiu]

If I want to see flawless hi-tech presentations, I watch Bill Gates.

Oh wait... Damn!

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen Macs crash during the Stevenote before -- a good one was when a Mac hung when Steve plugged an iPod into it during the iTunes release.

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not like Apple's products have really been on the cutting edge in terms of technology for a while. Cutting edge of design perhaps.
Apple products feature nice polished surfaces with no sharp parts to avoid cutting edges.

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say behind the times, just not innovative. Apple has done nothing but repackage old ideas and call them innovations for the longest time. When is the last time they produced something truly innovative?

Re:Whaaa?

[DrMrLordX]

Demos never show the defects in a product? Are you sure?

Some jerk with a website will just post his speech

[syntap]

the day before he makes it. Those rumor sites...

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

reply obviosly comes from an overzealous apple supporter ;)

Re:Whaaa?

[noidentity]

You know Roland, you'd come across as far more credible in your quest to present yourself as a journalist if you could spell simple words like "rinse" correctly.

Heh, I noticed that too but figured maybe "rince" was the British spelling <ducks>.

Re:Indeed

[curious.corn]

You mean a computer that actually works?

Solution to the Bandwidth Problem

[pixelcort]

Use PeerCast to stream an Ogg Media format stream. Hook up VLC to it and you're all set.

Yes, this all works on Mac OS X.

P2P Streaming will revolutionize high quality broadcasting on the internet.

Re:Solution to the Bandwidth Problem

[jhesse]

"works", as long as you take the time to get them talking to each other.

Re:Solution to the Bandwidth Problem

[pixelcort]

First, I never had to do that for Ogg Vorbis audio streams.

Second, I was not referring to Ogg Vorbis audio-only streams, but streams with both Vorbis audio and Theora video.

Unfortunantly, at this time I am unable to determine whether PeerCast is using a standard stream format for these, because they are labeled OGM everywhere I can find it. With a little bit of Googling, I found OGM Container, which seems to say that this format is a derivitave.

So now I'm confused. Can OGG streams be used to stream both a/v? Then why does PeerCast call Ogg Vorbis streams OGG streams, and Ogg Theora+Vorbis streams OGM streams?

I'm sorry, I just made things more confusing than I wanted to. It looks like the majority of PeerCast users are Windoze idiots who like their Windows Media and Real Players.

no wonder u get xmac for $500

[hallucinator]

....Now I see the conspiracy...!!

1. Cancel live broadcast.
2. Make people pay and come to MWSF.
3. Use the profits you get out of that to sell a headless Mac for only $500...!!

Way to go apple...!! ;)

---
Till now, I am using a Mac that has a head. :D

Re:no wonder u get xmac for $500

[virex]

apple doesn't run macworld....they don't get money from higher attendence

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[TheRaven64]

You were lucky. I sent in my PowerBook for repairs in the middle of this year. It took them a month to admit that they'd lost it, and another month to send me a replacement. For the last couple of weeks of being without, they sent me a loan unit which was inferior to mine and defective (screen had an intermittent fault, airport card wouldn't get a DHCP lease). The unit they replaced it with initially came with the wrong RAM configuration, and had the same fault I'd originally sent mine in to have fixed. And I had paid for Apple `Care'. It took several hours on the telephone to customer support and numerous emails to get them to even admit that they'd lost the unit (actually, they admitted it a few times, but didn't do anything about it, and had forgotten by my next call).

Re:Whaaa?

[godlikenerddotcom]

Personally, I'd rather wait for the media to pick up Jobs' marketting spin, filter it, rince it and present it for what it is - hardware and software with more or less value.

Right, because as we all know, the media does such a great job of interpreting new information. You wait for your media messiah to save you by interpreting information for you. I'd rather get the info straight from the horse's mouth (via a webcast and then the website for more technical information) than wait for some oversimplified summary that completely misses any parts of importance.

You need to ask for your money back.

[CountBrass]

Sure they do you, bizarrely, you chose to make up a few products, declare them boring and then blamed Apple for your inventions.

Whatever it is you've been smoking: you need to ask for your money back, It's bad shit.

Re:You need to ask for your money back.

[91degrees]

ure they do you, bizarrely, you chose to make up a few products,

Well, actually, if you read the summary, you'll see this text: "If you were hoping to watch Stevie present the rumoured sub-$500 Mac, the Motorola phone, the Flash iPod,". Presumably these are the most exciting things people expect to see.

declare them boring

Well, they ARE boring.

and then blamed Apple for your inventions.

They're other people's invention, and I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Just pointing out that these rumoured suggestions are really quite dull.

Whatever it is you've been smoking: you need to ask for your money back, It's bad shit.

I'm not the one who is incapable of associating a comment with the story that prompted it..

Re:You need to ask for your money back.

[CountBrass]

I think you're struggling to tell the difference between what some random new site (/.) makes up to troll for posts and what Apple has announced.

Re:You need to ask for your money back.

[91degrees]

You are aware that this is slashdot aren't you? And that it's not all that new.

Perhaps I wasn't all that clear.

Perhaps I should have said that the rumoured products that the article speculated on were really not all that interesting, and more people expect cool gadgets from Apple.

I thought that was pretty much what I said, but perhaps I need to spell these things out.

Re:Whaaa?

[10Ghz]

Personally, I'd rather wait for the media to pick up Jobs' marketting spin, filter it, rince it and present it for what it is - hardware and software with more or less value.

I find your faith in media disturbing.

Seriously, I don't own any Apple-hardware, yet I enjoy watching Steve Jobs's keynotes. Why? He's an extremely talented and charismatic speaker. And like it or not, the products he usually talks about ARE cool.

Apple finally gives me some...

[jeff13]

... with a cheap G5 box. Finally, a cheap Mac! That sexy 'puter was too high class for me in the past but now Apple surrenders? Baby! Oh no... I can't see the new show? What a tease!

I used to date a girl like that...

Re:Apple finally gives me some...

[godlikenerddotcom]

Before you wet yourself, read the rumor sites a little more intently.

If released, the $500 Mac would be a G4.

Re:Apple finally gives me some...

[JonTurner]

>I used to date a girl like that...

You used to date a cheap, headless girl?

Freaky!!!

Re:Whaaa?

[killbill!]

The "real" Roland Piquepaille is rpiquepa.

The user "Roland Piquepaille" is an imposter.

Re:Whaaa?

[SilentChris]

"I'm sure there are plenty of non-devotees, including the CEOs of companies like Microsoft, Adobe, RealNetworks, Creative, HP and Sun to name but a few who pay close attention to what Jobs has to say."

Uh, no, we don't. Sorry. :)

Keynote WILL be on the web, just not live

[iamacat]

So you don't have to fly to SF, just wait an hour or two. No big difference from life broadcast, unless people get to ask questions over IM.

It's more puzzling why they will not broadcast the keynote in Apple stores. Don't they want fans to come and buy some more stuff?

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe it or not, there were working computers before Apple.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Reverant]

I don't think so. About a year ago, I purchased a 17" 1.33GHz PowerBook G4. It cost me about $3000. From almost day one, the machine would not resume from sleep, 1 out 2 times. I looked at the Apple Discussion Boards and found the problem listed there. It affects many, many users.

Apple still hasn't admitted there is a problem, not to mention providing a fix.

I gave up about 3 months ago and sold the damn thing.

Why bother going?

[rjamestaylor]

Since the advent of this thing called the Internet I've not much understood the need for big events (Comdex, anyone?) and the like. Sure, if you've got business to do with a particular company it might make a convenient time to get together, but the general audience for these events aren't doing that.

I'll wait for Apple to unveil the new stuff on their web site.

Oh yeah, I forgot: these things present a big excuse to party. Dadnabbit, who needs an excuse?

Re:Why bother going?

[yabos]

Because there's a lot more to do there than just watch the keynote. Using all the new devices in person for example. Should be every geek's dream :D

Re:Why bother going?

[Ohreally_factor]

MWSF is more than just another trade show. I don't think I can explain it to you, if you haven't sipped the koolaid. Last year I went on a road trip with two friends and we met up with a bunch of other friends from a Mac forum. One night, we had a big dinner, and pretty much took over a chinese restaurant (House of Nanking, which I recommend.)

Of course, part of the attraction is that it's in SF. I don't think it would be as attractive a proposition if it was held in San Jose.

Unfortunately, finances prevent me from going this year. I'm saving up for something else.

My hand is raised

[dimer0]

Lots of people are new to Apple products because of the iPod. Having seen the iPod and been impressed by it, they are now interested in buying Apple computers, but the entry level price point is a little high.

Exactly.

I bought an iPod. I was impressed even with the box it came in, the packaging, the wrappers the cords were kept in, etc. Blew my mind. These people know how to design stuff!

4 months later, I took the plunge and bought an eMac (loaded up with RAM). Haven't touched my windows machines at home since then - 'cept to play a few games.

4 months after that, I convinced my employer to get me a Dual 2GHz G5 with a 20" cinema display.

My boss saw what it could do and how it played well in the windows network - so about 1 month later, there was another Dual G5 w/ 20" cinema display in the office (good thing he didn't get the 30" display, or else I would have been pissed off.. heh).

Oh, and a couple weeks ago Santa brought my daughter a pink iPod mini. This is the same daughter that has self-taught herself the whole iLife suite, and her and her friends don't leave the eMac alone when they're having sleepovers, etc. They make radio shows with GarageBand, convert to mp3, then drop them on CDs to show their friends. They make movies, edit them, and make really cool DVDs. She just turned 11, and I haven't had to show her anything. (Her Windows machine sits relatively unused in her room now) ... I'm now eyeing the 20" iMac, but am waiting for Tiger, iLife '05, and a DVD9 superdrive before I take the plunge ...

(I think I'm the kind of customer Apple likes)

Re:My hand is raised

[iBod]

>>a couple weeks ago Santa brought my daughter a pink iPod mini

Got the same thing for my Wife for Christmas.

She absolutely loves it. She's not a gadget freak at all, just into her music, and the iPod (and iTunes) has opened up a whole new world for her to enjoy her music.

She's now looking at her rather tired old HP Brio PC and wanting something with a little Apple logo on it.

She is exactly the demographic that would form a good chunk of the market for this imaginary sub-$500 Mac.

Re:My hand is raised

[verus vorago]

I convinced my employer to get me a Dual 2GHz G5 with a 20" cinema display.

I am very impressed.

Now tell *me* how to do this...

Re:My hand is raised

[Anonymous Coward]

(I think I'm the kind of customer Apple likes)

The kind that buys their products?

meh...

[sootman]

...I've mostly given up trying to catch a stream. I just go to whichever Mac site can handle a million reloads and watch it unfold in text. Not as fun but I can actually get more work done with a browser windows open reloading every few minutes (thanks to practice with /. on the other 364 days of the year) than I can when I just sit and watch the keynote. That said, he's a good presenter, and I hope they post it after the fact. OTOH, they could have Steve Ballmer present for them, I don't care--just gimme my $500 headless Mac. :-)

Re:meh...

[bebopredux]

Maybe Jobs doesn't want us to watch the feigned "surprise" of the audience as he unwraps the new sub-$500 Mac? Does the audience get prompts?

Re:meh...

[yabos]

Well, if Balmer was presenting they'd have to mop the stage from all the sweat dripping from his pits.

Re:Indeed

[Llywelyn]

Was Henry Ford innovative?

Steve is pissed off

[tliet]

Think Secret has let the cat out of the bag. Since Steve's the master of suspense, he probably wanted to use the 'one more thing' line. But now the whole world knows what to expect so he probably called the whole thing off (did they ever announce it on their QuickTime site?). The lawsuit against Think Secret is basically a confirmation of the low end Mac.

He did it with ATI a couple of years ago when they had a press release slip out days in advance of MacWorld expo. Apple refused to sell the ATI cards they had prepped for the new Macs.

Re:Steve is pissed off

[InstantCool]

"He did it with ATI a couple of years ago when they had a press release slip out days in advance of MacWorld expo. Apple refused to sell the ATI cards they had prepped for the new Macs."

Which is bullshit. I'm sick of losing stuff because Steve Job's is pissed off at Company B for this or that. I mean, isn't just a little bit TOO pissy. Why is punishing his customers for what a rumor web site did?

I'll admit it. I'm a total Apple Geek. I salivate over these events. And I'm really pissed about not being able to see it live. We always watch the event here with all our co-workers over lunch and have a grand time. It's like apple geek superbowl. This sucks!

Re:Indeed

[los furtive]

Was Henry Ford innovative?

Umm, yes he was. He invented a mechanism for transmission, and introduced the assembly line to auto production. He also displayed the cost effectiveness by keeping things simple with his classic "You can have it in any color you want, as long as it's black."

But I understand the point you're trying to make, which is that although Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile, he helped make it become something that every family could own.

"Article" is wrong

[Alcimedes]

I was notified this morning that our University will be hosting a live satellite feed of this event, and our IT staff were all invited to attend.

Not sure what the original piece was based on, but it wasn't fact.

I should also note that the only other times our school has gotten a live satellite feed, they announced some pretty kick ass product.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[mrmargolis]

My school was planning on doing the same thing. I received an email this morning which said the broadcast was canceled.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[Alcimedes]

Actually, because of this /. story there was a lot of chatter as to whether or not it's going to happen. Final answer is, YES. That's coming straight from Apple.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[daveschroeder]

Well, I'd be interested in hearing it, because I've cancelled our event at the University of Wisconsin:

http://apple.doit.wisc.edu/news/mwsf2005/

Our Apple account executive has gone up to the executive level at Apple, and confirmed there will NOT be satellite downlink for non-Apple-corporate sites, and no satellite coordinates will be distributed externally, including to the media.

I think you'll find your event will be cancelled. If you still seem to think it's going to happen, I'd like to get in touch with someone within your university responsible for the showing. I can be reached at das@doit.wisc.edu, and all of my contact information is here.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[Racher]

Mod this up, he is correct. I work for Apple and can confirm it has been cancelled, though it may be showing at you local Apple Retail Store.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[the pickle]

Care to get the satellite coordinates from your IT folks?

You can e-mail me (I have a dish) if you'd rather not post it on /.

p

Re:"Article" is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I can third this. Campus Reps in this area were told this afternoon. I had an feed scheduled, but no cordinates. Contact your local Apple Retail Store.

Re:"Article" is wrong

[Alcimedes]

You sir are correct. After your post I called up our Apple Rep and had them recontact corporate. As of now the live satellite feed has been cacelled. Thanks for saving me the trip to an event wasn't going to happen. :)

Re:Indeed

[jellomizer]

So then what is truly innovative? We can take any new piece of technology and then follow it back and we find that it is an improvement of an older product, or the combination of 2 products into 1.

This really pisses me off

[amichalo]

Obviously not everyone can be at MacWorld for teh Keynote(especailly now that Apple is only doing one a year on the West Coast).

For a tech geek, watching Job's Keynote is a kin to watching some great sporting event live. Sure you can Tivo the Game and watch it later, but when you already read the score and heard about the surprise come back, watching it post-live is not the same.

ATLEAST broadcast it in Apple stores - it is a freaking marketing event!!!

Re:This really pisses me off

[burns210]

I bet they will post a live recording after-the-fact, in quicktime 7's new h.whatever format for higher quality.

It is a good bet Steve introduces, with other products, the new quicktime version, so releasing qt7 player, and the keynote as bait, should hurry along early adoption.

Climax?

[GatorMan]

Rumors, law suits, cancellations, more rumors... it all adds up to an exciting climax.

Sounds like iForeplay! Wonder if they've got the patent on this 'heavy petting' leading up to 'climax'.

Typos Happen

[oobob]

I have no idea how you got the +5 insightful, but it's enough to make me want to retch. Being an asshole about a single spelling mistake on the internet is about as low as you can get. As it is, he writes better than 99% of posters on the internet in both his low frequency of spelling errors and the presence of correct punctuation and capitalization. You're just being an asshole with that comment, and there's no excuse for it.

The best part is the fact that he isn't the journalist you're thinking of. Do you just assume everyone on the internet with the same name is the same person? Are you fucking retarded? Does it make you feel like an asshole? I'd feel like an asshole if I threw out an attack based on a 3rd grade assumption and inadvertently hurt some uninvolved person's reputation. Maybe a fucking apology to both Rolands is in order.

I know I sound like an ass, but this guy sure fucking worked for it.

Re:Typos Happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you fucking retarded?

Oh, the irony.

In response to Gate's CES'05 breakdown

[amichalo]

As reported yesterday, Bill Gate's presentation of Windows Media Center didn't go so smoothly and included a Blue Screen of Death.

I bet Jobs is just scared the same will happen to him. Yeah Steve, you heard me. You are just CHICKEN! You know if Gate's and his 102% market share can't build a stable OS for his presentation, there is no way your piss-ant fruit company stands a chance. That's right Steve, better not stream your keynote.

Or maybe Steve was planning to get naked

Re:In response to Gate's CES'05 breakdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I think Steve won't be fazed by someone like yourself who thinks the richest man in the world is "Bill Gate"

Re:In response to Gate's CES'05 breakdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Um - Flamebait? how about a JOKE

um...

[ColonBlow]

anybody else read this as "Nipple Axes Live Webcast"?

Re:um...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.. But then I'm prolly not as desperate to try & squeeze some humour out as you.

Re:um...

[settsu]

Awwww, did somebody get up too early and not have their lil cup o' coffee-woffee?

How cuuute?

Re:um...

[Doctor Memory]

"Nipple Axes"...Good name for a band!

SFO = Lavay Smith = good reason to go!

[Anonymous Coward]

Having lived in the Bay area for a couple of years one of the main reasons I'd go back is to see Lavay Smith (yummy) and her Red Hot Skillet Lickers play one of the jazz venues in town. Damn fine woman.

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

the link is to a 4.5 year old article about a protest on a different continent

The keynote -will- be televised

[beegle]

I'll be attending a remote broadcast of the event, and our Apple sales rep. will be buying lunch (so it's not exactly unsanctioned).

They -are- doing a live, remote broadcast. The only question is "how public will that broadcast be?"

Maybe their bandwidth bills were too high after the last one, so they decided to record, encode, and blast to Akamai after the event.

Re:The keynote -will- be televised

[danigiri]

Akamai does support live streaming very well.

Re:The keynote -will- be televised

[keytoe]

Yes, but what about the revolution? I want that televised, but they keep telling me it won't happen...

Re:Indeed

[Rasta Prefect]

Take a look at a dual 2.5 GHZ PowerMac and get back to us on that.

Welcome to 2005. Go look at a G5 Macintosh, then get back to us on how behind the times Apple is.

Re:Video Torrent?

[yabos]

Or just watch it streaming from Apple's website within a day or so after the keynote.

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that Apple doesn't rock (they once repaired quite a bit of noncovered cosmetic and screen damage for free on a Powerbook G4 when they were repairing the DVD drive under warranty), but odds are that they just popped another key in rather than replaced the keyboard :)

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

I like corporate performance art. Why, should I not?

New Moderation Option...

[bloggins02]

... (Score:-1, Stuck in a Time Warp)

One possible reason

[jalefkowit]

Philip Torrone mentioned a "rumor" on the Engadget Podcast the other day that, to protest Apple's suits against fan sites, a number of those sites were planning to disrupt the keynote by having people stand up at some point during it and start shouting "Stop suing us! Stop suing us!"

I would say this seems to give some credence to Philip's report...

Re:One possible reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah ha, another pt engadget spamming shill account!

Good think I already have that site blocked.

Re:One possible reason

[jalefkowit]

Yeah, I'm a sock puppet. That's why my UID is so low, right? This is kind of rich coming from an Anonymous Coward...

Dumb move

[nurb432]

If he does cancel the 'cheap' mac just because it was leaked.. He's acting like an idiot.

But, i agree, he's done stupid things in the past due to his ego..

Windows 98 crashes during Gates' Comdex demo

[murdoow33]

Also check out this classic video: Windows 98 crashes during Gates' Comdex demo http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9804/20/gates.co mdex/

SHUT UP AND BUY AN iPOD

[Anonymous Coward]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4151009.stm

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude firewire 800? Thats behind the times! Dual backwards compatible 64-bit processors on the desktop? Ancient! First to adopt 802.11g over 802.11a? Crap! Oh boy and the performance of those Xserve RAID arrays? Childs play! Apple sucks! Hehe.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lame. Stop trolling.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Passing out "computer tune up" flyers to your mom's friends does not make you a CEO.

Sorry. :)

Lack of punctuation skillz

[alc6379]

Come on Slashdot editors... this didn't fly over anyone's head-- Of course Apple would *Nix their Webcast-- isn't OS X based on a *Nix?

Re:Indeed

[squiggleslash]

Ransome Olds introduced the assembly line for auto production a number of years before Ford, FWIW.

Of course, this doesn't mean Ford wasn't innovative. Innovation, contrary to popular belief, is not a synonym for "invention", it means to bring a technology to the public.

Ford hit the right formula of pricing, combining the right forms of manufacture, and using a good, popular, design of vehicle, to bring cars from being relatively obscure items to the general masses. Likewise, Apple and Commodore could be called the joint innovators for personal computers (IBM and Microsoft really took advantage of an already built market, and neither Apple nor Commodore can really take credit for inventing the personal computer); Microsoft arguably innovated with the GUI (Xerox invented it, Apple refined it, Digital Research made a good false start, Commodore and NeXT made the nicest versions, but really, GUIs weren't taken seriously until Microsoft released Windows 3.0 and bundled it with DOS. Business people considered computers with GUIs "toys" and DOS programs sold by the bucketload until Microsoft forced the situation.)

Re:Hot topics from 2004 that deserve to die in 200

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful post.

None of my machines crash either.

[i41Overlord]

My Windows 2000 and WinXP boxes run non-stop, 24/7. They never crash. The only time I have to reboot is when I upgrade or the power goes out.

In fact, my Windows 98 machine did not crash either, and I had a Cyrix CPU in it. I've used Cyrix, Intel, and AMD CPU's without problems. Set a machine up right and it will work fine.

I think the stability of the system has a lot to do with the user. If I build a computer and it crashes when I test it, I know something isn't set up right. So I find the cause of the crash and make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm not satisfied until it's rock solid.

If I had a Mac it wouldn't crash repeatedly either. Much of the stability of a system depends on the the person setting it up and the user.

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[bdsesq]

I can crash my OSX boxen at will. All I have to do is attach some USB device like a printer, put the system to sleep, pull the printer power plug out of the socket and wake up OSX. Toast.

I have my desktop on a UPS. The printer is not on the UPS. When the power went out the UPS woke the computer up so it could do a controlled shutdown --- kernel panic every time.

I moved the printer to an airport extreem - end of problem.

On the other hand my XP box never crashes because I never turn it on anymore.

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[47Ronin]

In fact, my Windows 98 machine did not crash either, and I had a Cyrix CPU in it. I've used Cyrix, Intel, and AMD CPU's without problems. Set a machine up right and it will work fine.

I think the stability of the system has a lot to do with the user. If I build a computer and it crashes when I test it, I know something isn't set up right. So I find the cause of the crash and make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm not satisfied until it's rock solid.

Well apparently then Bill Gates is a dumbass cause he was the primary user at two keynotes and his Win98 AND WinXP box crashed.

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[soft_guy]

Have you filed a bug with Apple on these?

https://bugreport.apple.com

Given that you have repro steps, I'm sure they would appreciate it.

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[bdsesq]

Have you filed a bug with Apple on these?

No. But I will. Good suggestion.

Thanks

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only time I have to reboot is when I upgrade or the power goes out.

So in other words, you must be very happy that Microsoft has stopped releasing patches as they're discovered? I mean, back when MS releasing patches every week to two weeks, your uptime sucked. Well, unless you didn't install the patches. Not a good idea.

I think the stability of a NT core system has more to do with the hardware inside as much as the user. Put shitty hardware inside a box, it's going to be unstable. Not necessarily because the hardware is poorly designed (though there's no shortage of it), but because the drivers were written in a third world country. Drivers run in ring 0, unprotected, and a poorly written driver will, of course, destroy the stability of a system.

Of course, that isn't a NT-specific problem, it's true of virtually all OSes. Get a buggy driver into the mix, and you're pretty screwed.

But given how tightly OS X integrates hardware and software (read: far less permuations to test), crashes of this nature are easier for Apple to find and diagnose before they go out into the wild. Not that they don't slip up from time to time, just that there's less third world written drivers going under the hood and causing grief.

Re:None of my machines crash either.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a very buggy printer driver that can't cope. I would file bug reports with Apple but, more importantly, with your printer manufacturer. Their driver runs in ring 0. If it crashes, it brings down the OS.

Obvious response, and then a "maybe"...

[singularity]

Everyone is writing in about how everything will be put up online as soon as it happens anyway by people doing transcription sitting in the audience.

If Apple wanted to limit Internet coverage, though, for whatever reason, they could easily shut down the publicly-available WAP in the convention hall. Do not tell anyone about it and then turn it off at the start of the keynote speech.

Sure, some people could get around that using cell phones, but the scramble would limit a lot of the "blow-by-blow" coverage on websites and IRC channels.

Re:Obvious response, and then a "maybe"...

[Anonymous Coward]

They shutdown the WiFi at the last keynote I believe.

No margin after...

[Anonymous Coward]

"So now, we're up to $420. An $80 margin is barely making it worthwhile for Apple, considering all the R&D they have to put in to bring this product to market"

The $80 margin is just going to pay for the suing websites that have rumors of a $500 Mac.

Its a karma thing. Or something.

Re:Indeed

[Alan]

Now that's just crazy talk! .... yea yea, mod me down ya bastards, do your worst!

Nice plan

[Anonymous Coward]

Piss off the fanboys that worship you.

I guess Steve will have to buy his own underwear this year...

This is the problem...

[artemis67]

when your company is run by a charismatic visionary. When he's up, he's way up and he brings everyone with him. When he's pissed, he's way pissed and he lets even his customers feel the heat.

That's why a lot of the older Mac users (myself included) cringed in '97 when Jobs took over full control of the company. Sure, he's got the marketing touch, but he can really be a brat at times. I mean, why did he kill the Newton division, which was a) way, way ahead of Palm and Microsoft, particularly in vertical markets, and b) out of the red and starting to make money? Could it be that he killed it because it was the brainchild and pet project of his former rival, John Sculley? Is there really any question?

Obviously, it's not because Jobs is opposed to marketing non-Mac gadgets; the iPod is doing phenominally well. And we know that after Jobs killed Newton, he tried to buy out Palm, which was largely staffed by those former Newtonites that he axed. So, why did he give up a market leadership position and then scramble to get it back? He killed Newton out of spite. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Jobs is a great visionary, but he, himself, needs somebody to pull on his reigns every now and then and remind him that this isn't all about stroking his ego.

Re:This is the problem...

[soft_guy]

After the Newton was canceled, Apple held a conference call for Newton developers to explain their decision. I was on the call and I got to ask the first question. The argument at the time was that Apple needed to put all of its OS development resources behind the Mac (i.e. what would become OS X). Unlike the iPod, the Newton is a real platform. It required a very large R&D budget to sustain it. For example, they had to have people to document OS APIs and publish developer documentation and support developers and continually reinvest in both hardware and software technology. The fact that they slightly exceeded their burn rate in one quarter with the pent up demand for the Newton 2000 and eMate does not make up for the billions Apple spent developing the Newton.

Also, when the Newton spin out was canceled, Palm and Microsoft raided the Newton group for employees. By the time that Jobs made the decision to kill the Newton, there was no one left at Apple who even knew where to find a copy of the source code for major pieces of the Newton OS.

I loved the Newton, too. But, I can in retrospect understand Apple's decision. Could they have executed it better - absolutely. They might have been able to sell off Newton, Inc. without canceling the spin off.

Re:This is the problem...

[zonker]

it is too bad that they killed the newton, but if you look at what jobs' goals were, it made sense. he was trying to kill anything that wasn't the absolute most critical project in the company to give a clear direction to where the company needed to go. i think jobs felt apple was distracted by things like the newton. and if jobs didn't feel anything for the newton, which he likely didn't partly for it being sculley's baby, he wouldn't likely have fought to keep the project alive.

he was trying to not just get the company out of red but to make them profitable. a risk like newton probably didn't seem to make sense to him unless he adopted it and made it 'insanely great'.

It's a marketing expense!

[artemis67]

Apple streams the keynote to their Apple Stores; why wouldn't they want to pack out the Apple Stores with customers eager to see and buy their new products?

The smart thing to do would be to do a live stream ONLY to the Apple Stores, not to the general internet audience, so that you'd have to go to an Apple Store to see it live.

But, no. This is all about Jobs throwing a hissy, so nobody outside of MWSF gets to watch it live.

As someone else said, it's not any more expensive than for them to offer the archived video for download after the event. so it's not about cost.

Re:Whaaa?

[DesScorp]

Roland Piquepaille, modded -1 Troll, simply for criticizing market spin...

The I-pod People are taking over Slashdot.

Re:Whaaa?

[hkb]

So you like public corporate performance art do you?

We sure do, especially when it comes from Apple. Steve's Reality Distortion Field (tm) is quite a pleasing experience, and they announce the goodies to back it up.

See, that's the difference, since I've made the switch to Apple. I'm actually excited about hearing about new product releases, because I know that Apple innovates and knows what their users want.

I don't have to worry about App X coming out and finding out that the only new feature is a little happy, dancing paperclip that talks to me.

Although Microsoft and other PC vendors have the occasional great product (W2003, AD, .NET), the norm is to be heavily disappointed. Great. WMP 10 with new, improved DRM. Wow.

Apple wows. If you don't like it, don't pay attention.

Demos are made up. They never show the defects (hence the name "showstoppers" for those defects). I could demo Duke Nukem Forever for you if you want: a bunch of screens, a fake video, and if I'm a great presenter like Steve Jobs allegedly is, you'll want to buy it.

Fortunately, Apple has a history of living up to their word and releasing "insanely great" products. So they've earned that trust with their customers.

Are you kidding?

[artemis67]

These rumor sites are so good at getting the scoop, they'll post the video!

Are you balmy mate?

[midifarm]

First of all, after scouring this week's ads all the "cheap" computers for sale do NOT include a monitor. An average price of an LCD monitor seems to be $350-400 US. Add the fact that the CRT included with th eMac specs out at .25 mm dot pitch while all the others start at .264 and go up from there. There's also the fact that other than the keyboard and a mouse (both of which can be wireless), there aren't any cables to hook up. It's clean and all in one box. Your GIANT 17" display looks a million times better than a hideous rectanglar cube next to an LCD.

Yes, Apple needs the new headless iMac to secure more of the marketplace, but you're likely not the target audience. Mom and Dad that like to surf the net, send email, write a Word document and maybe the odd Excel spreadsheet for work is the target audience. Needless to say that it comes with the whole iLife suite for those that are creative.

Quit detracting from something cool, even if you'd never buy one. There's an audience for almost anything. Just because it doesn't appeal to you, doesn't make it less of a viable product.

Peace

Re:Are you balmy mate?

[squiggleslash]

The point about the monitor is not that the eMac comes with one, it's that it's part of the main unit, and is thus not possible to replace with an LCD. And it gets worse when people already have an LCD and know they have to go back to using the 17" CRT if they get an eMac.

And surprisingly, a clear majority of my non-geek friends actually have LCDs.

Mom and Dad that like to surf the net, send email, write a Word document and maybe the odd Excel spreadsheet for work is the target audience. Needless to say that it comes with the whole iLife suite for those that are creative.

Do you mean for the eMac or the new iMac? 'cos I can tell you now neither of my parents, both technophobes, would be interested in an eMac for precisely the reasons I've outlined.

People who advocate the notion that "mom and pop and grandma" are ordinary users tend to simplify what these people want and assume that what they want is to buy an all-in-one box that can do bugger all that costs any amount of money. Ordinary people, however, are technically savy enough to know if they prefer LCDs or CRTs and I think the average elitist slashbot would be surprised how many people are walking into stores and buying themselves a monitor, rather than a whole PC, and who'd like to keep using that monitor.

The eMac is a large, ugly, box with limited appeal. You may like it, it isn't "detracting" from it to argue that it doesn't hit a particular market, that it isn't the entry level switchers Mac its supporters claim it to be, and that Apple should be creating an entry level Mac.

If the eMac remains profitable after producing such a thing, there's no reason for Apple to take it off the market. But it's frankly a little insulting to hear arguments, such as yours, that eMacs are the entry level Mac and people arguing otherwise simply don't know what ordinary users are and should "Quit detracting from something cool".

I don't want an eMac. Nobody I know wants an eMac. That's a simple fact. Whether other people do or not doesn't mean there isn't a place in the market for a machine I and those people I know would actually want.

Re:Are you balmy mate?

[midifarm]

You must remember, the eMac was developed for the education market. Consumers were supposed to buy the iMac. The eMac's $799 price tag made it more attractive to the entry level budgeted consumer. Just for posterity's sake, the eMac can have an external monitor added to it, in case you felt like putting the computer remotely (although kind of stupid).

I would imagine that the vast majority of your non-geek friends own an LCD mostly because it's harder to find a CRT these days. The size is nice on the LCD's, I'll grant you that. Other than size, is there any other reason why people prefer LCD's to CRT's? Typically you get a better response, colour and performance from a CRT. Ever taken a look at the TV market?

I've never suggested that the eMac was the entry level Mac. In fact, I said there is a need for the $500 headless iMac that is purpoted. Most people I know want a G5 PowerBook.

Peace

Re:Are you balmy mate?

[squiggleslash]

I would imagine that the vast majority of your non-geek friends own an LCD mostly because it's harder to find a CRT these days.

It's extremely easy. Even Wal*Mart sells them. My non-geek friends have usually gone out and bought an LCD monitor to replace their CRTs. LCDs haven't been foisted on an unwilling public and Wal*Mart, Staples, Office*, etc, are not selling the things for the three geeks in town who are likely to drop in and buy one, they're selling them to regular computer users who've seen the monitors and want one.

Most people I know who've come into my home and seen the LCD on my coffee table have left wanting an LCD, unless they've already had one.

I've never suggested that the eMac was the entry level Mac. In fact, I said there is a need for the $500 headless iMac that is purpoted

Well, you were arguing with me when I said the eMac wasn't consumer friendly, that in the consumer market it was a lemon, and that by and large it only really sells in the education market and that ultimately it isn't appealing to people who want an entry level Mac. For my efforts you accused me of "detracting from something cool" and questioned if I was balmy. What was I supposed to think?

Re:Are you balmy mate?

[Creedo]

I have to agree completely. Most of my clients are moving to LCD on their own. I don't stock them(I mostly build gaming rigs), but I sure do set a lot of them up.
The ONLY people I know of who purchase eMacs in this area(mid-Kansas) are people who only buy Mac anyway. Period. I haven't even seen eMacs in schools yet. Most of the Mac- centric schools I go to still use older iMacs.
One problem I have seen is the stock memory in an eMac. More to the point, the lack thereof. The last eMac I worked on was a dog with the standard 128M. That brings the percentage of eMacs that I have seen that were nearly unusable with stock memory to 100%. We discovered quickly that FileMaker would kill an eMac with little effort. Run Classic and any other app, and you would think that you had a shiny 386 in that box.

Gate's demo video for Internet2 users

[FastDownload]

If you are on Internet2 (or another fast research network), you can get the video at speeds up to 80 Mbps here which requires Java Web Start to download the LoDN client. If you have a set of LoRS Tools, then you can get the exNode at 2005_0105_ms_ces_300agility.wmv.xnd.

On high-speed networks, set threads to 10 and blocksize to 1 MB. On cable/dsl (you are going to try it even though you are not on Internet2, aren't you), use 3 threads and a blocksize of 512KB. Dial-up users should just click on the link in the above post.

This indicates a release of Quicktime

[timealterer]

My guess is that this has to do with the fact Quicktime 7 will be coming out, and Steve wants to get it in as many people's hot little hands as fast as he can do so. Therefore, the keynote will require Quicktime 7 to play, and since nobody will have Quicktime 7 yet, it can't be broadcast live!

Re:This indicates a release of Quicktime

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you just hear that? That was you, blowing my mind

Re:This indicates a release of Quicktime

[loquacious d]

Save that everyone interested in streaming the keynote would have downloaded QT7 the moment it was up on the Apple site anyway...

Re:Hot topics from 2004 that deserve to die in 200

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing this post at -1, Overrated (the moderator thought it was overrated at zero!) I am *convinced* that not only is the /. moderation system very broken, but it is currently being used to flagrantly censor unpopular opinion.

Crackhead math.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

So a margin that's only ~20% isn't enough? What's Dell's margin, anyone know? Most manufacturers get by on single digits.

And you want to figure in software costs, when they don't have to license the OS, they own it? I'm sorry, but whatever OS R&D costs they have are going to be figured into the price of Apple's existing product lineup, even if this thing is never made.

BTW, taiwanese motherboards might have a huge market, but they aren't all the same model number. Any single logicboard is produced in numbers comparable to an iMac or an eMac.

Re:Crackhead math.

[Junior J. Junior III]

I don't know what an acceptable margin is, I'm not a businessman. My point is that the margin is a fairly small amount of money per unit, and that's with the cost of the hardware roughly figured in. The cost of hardware isn't the only cost, of course -- there's all kinds of other expenses associated with bringing the product to market.

The fact that Apple owns the OS is irrelevant -- the cost of developing OS X is a real cost, and it just gets spread across a wider line of products now. The cost is going to be in there, somehow. But for the sake of argument, I said forget the cost of the OS. Apple may well have to pay licensing on certain components of OS X -- I'm not aware of any, but they may well use patents owned by other companies through some kind of agreement.

If torrent is too slow...

[FastDownload]

If you are on Internet2 (or another fast research network), you can get the video at speeds up to 80 Mbps here which requires Java Web Start to download the LoDN client. If you have a set of LoRS Tools, then you can get the exNode at 2005_0105_ms_ces_300agility.wmv.xnd.

On high-speed networks, set threads to 10 and blocksize to 1 MB. On cable/dsl (you are going to try it even though you are not on Internet2, aren't you), use 3 threads and a blocksize of 512KB. Dial-up users should just click on the link in the above post.

I originally got the video using BT. I have left my connection open for a couple of hours to continue supplying the video, but my total uploads never get over 2.4 Mbps which is disgraceful on a campus connected at OC-12 (622 Mbps). Using LoDN or LoRS should get I2 users the file at 30-80 Mbps if not higher (on GigE connected machines).

I think it makes sense....a twisted sense!

[rspress]

I have been saying for months now that Apple is going to fool everyone and announce that 10.4 tiger will ship at Macworld expo. I think they will announce that Tiger will ship by the end of January and they pre-orders start the day of the expo. If this does happen it will be one secret that Apple has kept under raps and that no one....besides me....expects.

This maybe the reason for the blackout. Although the blackout does not make a whole lot of sense....There will be plenty of Mac news sites that broadcast up to the minute text based websites of the keynote events. So Apple will only be able to keep a lid on the keynote on the visual side of things. Even though I managed to snag some free tickets to the expo this year I don't think I will be able to attend because of my back injury. I have not been able to attend for 5 years now because of it.

aren't regular pc's cut throat enough for apple?

[Lawrence_Bird]

I'm amused by all this talk of $500 headless imacs and flash iPods to drive Apples stock price even closer to the moon. Why on earth are(should) they waste capital and productive resources to try to compete in saturated markets with 0 margins? And why would they want to risk consumer backlash after deploying a POS machine like the specs we have seen? Its a competitor in price only. And my experience with an ibook and osx is that its much more sensitive to lack of resources than my past pc equivalents.

I really hope that Jobs disappoints all of you and actually
releases somethings that are a) original &/or b) offer
significant improvements. All this other stuff is just
going a) backwards and b) taking the cache out of your brand

Re:on stability...

[tofu2go]

it amuses me how people are quick to point out their stability issues when working with windows, but never quick to defend it. Windows 2000 has been pretty rock solid for me, and i've been using it since it was released. still using it (don't really care for XP). i have clients running it on servers too without problems. i just think that people don't want to admit that Windows has very much improved over the years. now i wouldn't doubt that OS X is more stable in the least, but you also have to admit that it doesn't exactly have to support as many 3rd-party hardware and software configurations. there's something to be gained by being in full control of the computer stack like Apple has. i've also used linux since pre 1.0 days and run it on my home server; let it be known so i don't get blasted by the fanatics. i'm just trying to be objective about it.

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[porcupine8]

I have to agree. My eMac came with a faulty stick of RAM - took five minutes on the phone with them to figure out the problem, the next day I brought my old RAM to the local apple store, they handed me a new one, problem solved! Not as impressive as your situation, but I was quite happy. Went much more smoothly than the time my cel phone's display went out.

I don't want to die!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not going to go anywhere NEAR San Fran after those Earthquake predictions for Jan 11th!

I'm surprised Jobs is still going.

Whatever. Yawn fest.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could be in the 98-percentile of computer users that could care less and wait until after the address where the news media gets a hold of it... and still not care and ignore it like the non-news it is.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll defined as 'anything written which generates a reply'.

Jobs' Plot to slashdot rumor sites

[ThatsNotFunny]

Perhaps my tinfoil hat is showing, but it could be a plot to slashdot these rumor sites. Think about it:

With no webcast, no in-store simulcast, apple geeks will have to get their live coverage from the many rumor sites that will be getting minute by minute reporting via text messages from the floor of the keynote. This extra bandwidth is sure to overwhelm those poor rumor site servers.

Just a theory... ;)

Re:Apple products are a huge nonevent

[Myuu]

I doubt it, the keyboard was just decimated by a year and a half of use. Hair, unknown substances, and sticky keys. I was going to replace it because it was becoming unbearable but this is definitely a new keyboard.

Re:aren't regular pc's cut throat enough for apple

[node 3]

Market share.

What's better:

High margin Macs making up 90% of a 2% market share, or 65% of a 4% market share?

The headless iMac is seen by many as a way to further enhance and take advantage of the "halo effect' of the iPod.

Available on their site

[inkswamp]

They always make it available on their site as a streaming Quicktime movie anyway. It's not that big a deal.

Re:Whaaa?

[chochos]

he's not the real guy, he's an impostor. Come on, you really believe the names you see on posts? it's like that Miguel de Icaza user, he's also an impostor.

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Innovation, contrary to popular belief, is not a synonym for "invention", it means to bring a technology to the public.

What d'you mean "contrary to popular belief"? If you're the only one who's using the word "innovation" to mean "bringing technology to the public" then you are wrong, to the extent that you can be right or wrong about what a word means.

I might as well say "contrary to popular belief 'cow' isn't a word referring to a type of animal, it means 'frying pan'".

Re:Indeed

[neuroklinik]

When is the last time they produced something truly innovative?

Exposé comes to mind. It's incredibly useful, and I've never seen anything quite like it anywhere else.

Also, Quartz Extreme is pretty innovative, and Core Image/Video is too.

If you don't buy those, though, then I suppose we'll have to go back to the Newton (1993), which, despite the bad press, WAS way ahead of its time. And if you don't buy that, how about the Apple II (1977). I don't think anybody would dispute that...

what makes you think...

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes you think...that it's a powerPC? :-)

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, right, whatever. And "literally" I guess means the same thing as "figuratively" then too? After all, that's what most people seem to use it for these days.

"Innovation" was, until recently, relatively obscure. Usually, in print etc it's used correctly. On Slashdot though, it tends to be mistaken for "invented".

This, incidentally, is unacceptable language redefinition because you're removing a word from the language and making it difficult to express the concepts that that word redefined when you redefine a word to mean the same thing as an existing, alternative, word.

Re:South Park - Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset

[Anonymous Coward]

For the TV-impaired, here's the link.

Re:aren't regular pc's cut throat enough for apple

[Lawrence_Bird]

"What's better:

High margin Macs making up 90% of a 2% market share, or 65% of a 4% market share?"

As the extra units don't help your bottom line and are
a negative on your balance sheet and returns on capital,
the former. There is no reason at all to believe further
that an entry level PC will lead to a 2nd purchase years
later of a high end PC. Someone that limited $ wise will
most likely just buy a new $500 system 3 years from now.

You guys all misinterpret the headline

[Anonymous Coward]

It should read Apple *nixes live webcast.... which really isn't news, since everything Apple does these days is on *nix.

Re:Indeed

[eclectic4]

"When is the last time they produced something truly innovative?"

Yeah, like M$ has.

Innovation isn't always in the narrow realm of new products, but can also be in the realm of making those same things work better than anyone else has been able to (iPod, iMac, UNIX OS X, iLife, etc...).

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

iTMS, hardware/software integration, basic intuitiveness, etc...

The thing that bugs me the most

[IAmATuringMachine!]

The thing that bugs me the most is that the rumor sites like Think Secret have people who will report from within the convention center. Given that there will be no stream, the rumor sites will be the only game in town, and in fact, be rewarded for the mass inconvenience they caused for everyone else.

I think that if Think Secret is ultimately responsible for this buy posting illegally obtained information (generally, there is a difference between protecting sources because of fear of physical retribution and protecting sources because they are obviously breaking the law), then TS should be punished. Like, advertisers should realize the kind of scum they are and pull their ads from the site. Sort of like how Bill Maher's show was cancelled at the peak of its ratings because the ads pulled out...

A bummer, but alternative exist...

[kiddailey]

This is really a bummer. For me especially, because I religiously watch evey broadcast that Apple does. I'll be happy though if they at least put it up after it's done.

However, a good number of the various Mac sites are are always active with minute-by-minute breakdowns of what is going on during these events. Usually, even going so far as to keep updating an auto-refreshing page as the event happens.

So even if it's not being broadcast, you can still get an idea of what's going on even without watching it.

It might be about the iPhone

[craigmcgill]

Apparently Motorola pulled a live webcast of the iPhone set up for fears of other engineers seeing it and copying it - this might be tied into that.

Re:It might be about the iPhone

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they yanked if for fear that other people would see it and copy it, but don't care about showing it at, since you post doesn't say and I am guessing, CES.

So instead they will have to just go to the Mac Who Cares Show and copy it.

Customer demand

[shotfeel]

I have no idea what posessed Apple to offer the eMac at all. It's an ugly, heavy, out-of-date monster - and still too expensive.

They made it because their customers demanded it!

Maybe you don't remember when the first flat-panel iMac was introduced and the CRT iMac was discontinued, but the education channel was screaming for their lower cost, more physically robust computer to be returned to the lineup. That's why the eMac was created -but it was only offered to through educational channels.

The home users saw the eMac that schools could get and demanded that they be allowed to purchase this machine too. So Apple relented and make it available to everyone.

This is a case of Apple providing what their customers asked for. To say you have no idea what possessed Apple to offer it shows the difference between what you want and what Apple's other customers want.

Pics of new Apple product leaked?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa /wa/default?user=newbie4&templatefn=FileSharing1.h tml&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff =consumer&cty=US&lang=en

Re:Pics of new Apple product leaked?

[capsteve]

those are either very well crafted fakes, or they could be the real McCoy... however i am suspect of an apple product that has it's product name emblazed on it like in image #11 with such huge lettering... i don't recall apple ever having done this with it's other products. also, if it is real, would newbie4's homepage at mac.com still be up after 10k hits? me thinks apple will be taking this down soon...

It's not "Public"

[bill_mcgonigle]

Our Apple account executive has gone up to the executive level at Apple, and confirmed there will NOT be satellite downlink for non-Apple-corporate sites

The beauty of satellites is that they're hard to beam into corporate sites. Unless they're doing a digital encrypted stream ($$$) if you find the right bird you'll get to see it.

I can search all of the transponders on the C-band birds I can see in about 15 minutes. They're typically on the air about that long before the keynote and then Steve comes out 15-20 minutes late so there should be plenty of time.

A distributed search with an IRC channel would take about 2 minutes. :)

The best explaination I've heard is they intend to filter audience reaction before posting it. There will be a site somewhere with side-by-side audio tracks, I'm sure.

Bad Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Specifically, bad RAM is the most common source of kernel panics on OS X boxes. I've seen very few hard crashes that couldn't be traced back to this issue.

Apple generally bundles good RAM with its machines, but a lot of third party RAM is sort of stinky. I'd say for budget priced DIMMs, maybe as many as one in ten are sub-par in terms of reliability.

OS X is very sensitive to even subtly flaky RAM -- it's not uncommon to have a bad module that will crash a computer once or twice a week, but will pass extensive looping tests.

Moral: buy good RAM and your computer is relatively unlikely to crash.

Re:Bad Hardware

[b1t r0t]

Specifically, bad RAM is the most common source of kernel panics on OS X boxes.

So is RAM with bad contact in the SIMM/DIMM socket. Many years ago someone had a Mac Plus which would crash all the time. I had them just turn it on and leave it idle for a few minutes. It crashed while just sitting there. I opened it up, removed the RAM, cleaned the contacts on the SIMM stick, re-inserted it, and that computer didn't have the problem any more.

I would suggest the original poster shut down his Mac, remove the RAM, clean the contacts with a pencil (not ink) eraser, brush off the eraser dust with a brush (don't blow them away because your breath will put moisture on the contacts), then re-insert them FIRMLY.

It's also possible, depending on the model, that this can be a cooling issue. Factory-installed ZIF G3 upgrades use the "putty square" kind of thermal material, which isn't always reliable, especially after you've removed the heat sink once. Clean that crap off, put a small amount of heat sink compound on the center of the CPU, then put everything back together again.

Re:Indeed

[daviddennis]

I'd certainly count Aqua and Quartz as being innovative. They had the guts to jettison ugly old X-Windows and replace it with something beautiful that is now pretty fast. Quartz Extreme is an innovative way to optimize its performance; we won't see anything like that in Windows until Longhorn and maybe not even then.

The creation of a Unix-based operating system that was accessible to the common man, with no compromises, deserves major kudos for innovation. At the time it was introduced, Linux was still stumbling badly in that category. (I don't know if it's caught up even now since it's been a while since I've used a new Linux distribution).

They were first to build wireless network access into their computers, and the first to use the new high-speed standard.

The cooling system of the G5, with multiple variable speed fans to cut down noise, is innovative.

Expose was innovative.

Producing an operating system that actually got faster with each release, instead of more bloated and sluggish (like Windows and even Linux) is innovative.

I'm sure there are a lot more things, but that's a pretty respectable list as it is.

D

Re:Hot topics from 2004 that deserve to die in 200

[Anonymous Coward]

That post deserves better than -1.

Re:aren't regular pc's cut throat enough for apple

[King_TJ]

Wrong! The motivation is the software and the accessories! When you sell someone a sub $500 Mac, you may not ever see them spend more on a "bigger, better Mac" in the future, but you will see them come back to the Apple store for service and support, purchases of some game titles for their kids or software like Print Shop for use at home, and maybe things like a new printer, speakers or even an Apple flat panel monitor at some point.

Re:aren't regular pc's cut throat enough for apple

[node 3]

There is no reason at all to believe further
that an entry level PC will lead to a 2nd purchase years
later of a high end PC.

There most certainly is.

Not *all* low-end Mac purchases will lead to higher margin purchases (which need only be iMacs or PowerBooks, not PowerMacs), but it's absolutely logical to presume that some will.

This process isn't a collection of unrelated actions--the $500 iMac won't exist in a vacuum. It serves a role among many in a larger plan. It helps to increase the market share. It's up to the iMac, PowerMac and PowerBook to convert those tepid consumers who are unsure about a $2,000 Mac purchase, but will more easily make a $500 Mac purchase, into additional and more profitable purchases.

This is absolutely elementary.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow you really are an idiot. You can't even tell an obvious troll from the real thing.

I've been following you since you started spewing shit at me for calling you out for who you are and you have gotten even worse now.

In case you haven't been listening:

Dumbass.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid mac bigots again - it's happened to my posts as well. Anything you say that isn't positive about Apple gets modded down.

Re:Whaaa?

[WIAKywbfatw]

And there was me thinking that "dumbass" was the limit of your vocabulary: nice to know that I was wrong.

Having said that, you still don't have the guts to post as anything but an AC do you? At least when I take potshots at someone I have the decency and the balls to stick my head above the paraphet. You really should try it sometime, because it might help you develop a spine.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Having said that, you still don't have the guts to post as anything but an AC do you? At least when I take potshots at someone I have the decency and the balls to stick my head above the paraphet. You really should try it sometime, because it might help you develop a spine.

Yes, we know that having an account with a made up name makes you real tough.

Dumbass.

Re:Whaaa?

[WIAKywbfatw]

Uh, anyone can find out who I am in real life via the web from my Slashdot nick. Can't say the same about the AC option that you insist on hiding behind, can you?

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, who are you?

Re:Whaaa?

[WIAKywbfatw]

What, no "dumbass"? I'm disappointed.

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Avoiding the question I see.

Is this some sort of lame challenge?

[aquarian]

Pshaw...

Re:Whaaa?

[WIAKywbfatw]

What does it say about you that you insist on constantly calling me dumbass but yet are incapable of using the web to perform a simple task?

RDF: Highly Focused

[catdevnull]

Steve's magic isn't strong enough to support a reality distortion field big enough to go global on this one--must be a real hum-dinger --or-- he doesn't want the store slammed before it's updated.

More likely, he's "punishing" the unruly rumor mongering masses for the leaked insider info. More hype. Love him. Hate him. He still wins.

Here's a Torrent

[Anonymous Coward]

At a Site RIAA/MPAA can't touch :-P

as I'm guessing they've editing "It" away from the "highlights" that are availible now.

International prices. :(

[mangee]

...they'll price it at £699 in the UK despite the dollar rate.

Aye, and $1300 NZD.
Apple Hardware $ vs £ vs $

IDG Revenge Theory

[bennomatic]

Remember last year, when IDG moved their MacWorld NY to Boston and Apple pulled out? I'm guessing that IDG decided that video shot of *their* expo could be construed as theirs, and the bandwidth going out of the expo was certainly provided under their name...

They probably told Apple it was going to cost them a million dollars--or whatever they lost on MWBoston--to do the live oubound feed.

OK, Does anyone know what it costs to get in just for the keynote?

Ooh, how *mercurial* of him!

[Zhe Mappel]

This is the type of snit fit that prima donnas--from the Jobses to the Marthas to the Trumps--engage in frequently as a matter of privilege.

Do it as an ordinary Joe, and you will soon be arrested, fired, sued, beat up, divorced, etc.

Do it if you are rich, and gossipy news media will hail your "uncompromising standards," men will shiver at your approach, and women of loose morals will queue to induct your seed.

Moral: Assholes, rejoice! If you make enough money, you'll never have to change!

Re:Whaaa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why you dirty troll! I'd mod you down for that, but I'm too busy looking for news on Steve's keynote web cast!

The guy's a deadbeat dad. What do you expect?

[glrotate]

Class?

And all you need to know missy...

[Anonymous Coward]

...is that you and Bill Palmer are a pair of pre-menstrual, opinionated jerks!

Mac Mini at $499 sound about right honey?

Re:Indeed

[gilesjuk]

Firewire 800 isn't their design, the processors are made by IBM/Motorola. 802.11g isn't their design.

Sure they can bolt together the latest hardware into a new computer but that isn't innovation. Innovation is doing something new. See the Cell processor for an example of innovation and cutting edge.

64-bit processors have been around for years in Sun computers.