Slashdot Mirror
Is Horse the New Mouse?
lopati writes "Europhysics News writes about a new ergonomical mouse called Horse (jpeg) that reduces repetitive stress injuries by allowing 'the three middle fingers to adopt a flexed position to relax the tendons' and including a thumb scrool [sic:] wheel. Just a few simple changes for so much more comfort!"
Slashdotted with 0 comments.... *sigh*
This is something I've known for a long time, when I put my three middle fingers into my horse it relaxes me a lot too, let alone the horse. Including a thumb every once in a while is a simple change that gives so much more comfort.
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
It didn't even work for subscribers.
Slashdot is at it again!!
Any mirrors?
They should call it the "ass."
Do they run their server on 18.8k?
Mirror here.
No.
coral cache of the picture
If you think I'm clicking a link to "Horse.jpg"...
I am trolling
...would it be beating a dead horse? I'm here all week, ladies and gentlemen. Don't forget to tip the wait staff.
Kids these days. They don't know the difference between classic, and just plain old.
It's slashdotted, so I can't tell, but I use a Microsoft Trackball Explorer, which is very comfortable for me.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
That's not a horse, its just a fat mouse. Maybe a pony at the most...
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
I looked it up but, found no definitions.
I love horses!
Europhysics News (2004) Vol. 35 No. 6 A new computer mouse called Horse C.J. Snijders and P.C. Helder, Erasmus MC, University Medical Center Rotterdam, the Netherlands. In the early 60's Doug Engelbart, a scientist at the Stanford Research Institute in California, invented the computer mouse. This may certainly be seen as one of those brilliant tools we hardly can do without. However excellent the functionality of the mouse--we all use it with great ease--its recent form can also be a significant source of discomfort. Repetitive movements cause physical complaints. This is one of the causative factors of Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) or Occupational Overuse Syndrome (OOS) [1]. Rigid work patterns and prolonged periods of heavy work load can result in physical stress. Personality aspects are also considered to play a role in the development of RSI [2]. About 20% of the working population has complaints related to the neck-shoulder-arm region and overuse complaints can be the result of using the mouse. This is why a biomechanical research program was started by Erasmus MC,University Medical Center Rotterdam, the Netherlands. Biomechanical model The present study has identified one cause for several physical problems in the neck-shoulder-arm region. Based on a pilot study a hypothesis was introduced that forceful gripping or pinching goes with tension in the deep neck muscles. To investigate this, blood flow velocity was measured in the region indicated in Fig. 1 (with permission from Sobotta,Atlas of Human Anatomy). The drawing shows the costoclavicular gate between clavicular bone and first rib (see circle). Neck muscle tension results in a narrowing of this gate and thus impingement of the subclavian artery and vein. This conclusion is supported by a biomechanical model of the aetiology of tennis elbow [3]. It describes the role of extensor muscles in the hand and lower limb and substantiates the finding that restriction of blood flow is caused by forceful pinching. Therefore we conclude that certain force application by the hand is related to tension in the deep neck muscles which explains a variety of shoulder- and arm complaints. Design of a computer mouse called "Horse" The use of a conventional computer mouse requires continuous lifting of the fingers. This results in excessive use of extensor muscles to avoid unwanted switching which can be seen as a possible cause of tension in the deep neck muscles. It was therefore decided to design a mouse that does not provoke extensor muscle activity. This new concept is called Horse in view of its functional design: the palm of the hand as well as the middle three fingers "sit" on the main body while thumb and little finger rest at a lower level at the side as if supported by stirrups (Fig. 2). Thumb and little finger work together to realize optimal control in the horizontal (X-Y) plane. The design of the Horse allows for the three middle fingers to adopt a flexed position to relax the tendons. A major part of these fingers rests in a more or less vertical position. Fig 1 Narrowing of costoclavicular gate (see circle) resulting in impingement of artery and vein (with permission from Sobotta,Atlas of Human Anatomy) In view of this supported position of the hand and fingers, extensor muscles can relax. Extensor action is no longer required with the palm of the hand and fingers resting on the Horse. A light flexing action of the top of the fingers is sufficient to switch. This action results in a force on the touch switches situated at the lower end near the tips of the fingers. These switches react on touch force only which reduces or virtually eliminates the movement of the tendons when switching. Moreover, complete support of the fingers will reduce the necessity of co-contraction of the intrinsic muscles of the hand [4]. Other features as a result of the design of the Horse are: * a better stability control in the X-Y plane * the possibility to reduce friction of the Horse on the table Fig 2 Thumb at the side, m
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Of course, of course.. unless, of course it's a mouse; in which case it's actually neither.
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
This is an option for some people but not others. In the late 1980s I used a device with a thumbwheel much the same and man a scroll thumbwheel after 5 minutes is hell on tendons more so than any other mouse I used.
But I can use a normal mouse all day long and not have a problem and have been doing so for years now.
So your mileage may vary.
I agree, it's some kind of ergonomically reshaped mouse but it's still a mouse.
It kinda reminds me of Microsoft Natural Keyboard... If it had been THAT revolutionariy, everybody would have gotten one nowadays.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Various companies are always coming out with new hardware designs that they claim will revolutionize how we interface with computers, like those split keyboards, and that keyboard that looked like a video game controller, etc but none of them ever pan out. This will be no different.
Sigs are for the weak.
http://www.europhysicsnews.com.nyud.net:8090/full/ 30/article10/article10.html
http://www.europhysicsnews.com.nyud.net:8090/full/ 30/article10/article10_2_0002.jpg
The editors should just link to mirrordot in each story. Story Picture
--
Free iPod? Try a free Mac Mini
Or a free Nintendo DS
Wired article as proof
I assume they must have put at least a certain amount of research into the ergonomics of it, but I can't see how that would be comfortable to use -- particularly for someone who has bone or joint ailments like arthritis. Having your hand contorted over something that size seems like it'd probably be a little painful at best.
This will never catch on, especially on public computers. What about lefties? This thing doesn't look like it can be used properly with either hand at all.
(even though you cant see it)
but would companies be willing to go the extra 45 bux (im guessing?) to benefit their employees?(im guessing not?)
And what about better designed keyboards? As I understand it, more stress on wrists comes from poor posture, bad keystroke habits, and a general crapload of typing, rather than moving a mouse around. Although, that can be a pain too.
Looks like a dolphin to me. Cute too.
I can (and do) grip my logitech MX1000 in a way that looks like what they're trying to accomplish... Fingers bent a bit, hand relaxed over the top arch. Its buttons extend quite far along the body of the mouse, it's very comfortable.
vk.
Maybe we need a Horse, a mouse and a trackball each, then rotate them once a week...
Face it, do something enough times, and it can cause problems.
that already happened !
The world is full of right handed biased designers! Evil! Where's my left handed version? Don't you people know that your biased right hand designs make only a few of us left? (pun intended).
When you use a mouse, do you have your forearm at an angle to the mouse with your index finger on the left button (assuming right-handedness), your middle finger on the right button, and your ring finger on the "forward" button on 5-button mice? I've found that having my forearm parallel to the mouse with my middle finger on the scroll, my ring finger on the right mouse button, and my pinky on the forward button reduces the stress on my wrist since my wrist is no longer twisted at an odd angle. I was wondering if anyone else did this too.
--
Free iPod? Try a free Mac Mini
Or a free Nintendo DS
Wired article as proof
Google's cache of the page (no pictures): http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:u23RUTZ-vBAJ: www.europhysicsnews.com/full/30/article10/article1 0.html+&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&strip=1
--kbitz
Next up is the Whorse... a multiuser mouse! Well it was funny in my head...
You can take a horse to water .. but should we ?
For me it just looks like a trackman that you move around. If you want to talk about really new things compared to the mouse, take a look at the Ergonomic Vertical Mouse That one is realy inovative compared to the old mouse. Or any of the other mice on that site. Want something REALLY new? Thy this one
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Since it causes the hand to be in a more downward (as opposed to a straighter possition) if you can find a spare baseball or rubber band ball it gives you a good idea of what this would feel like to use. I happen to have a rubber band ball from a conference I went to in September handy and noticed the similarity when looking at the pic.
Personally, I kind of like it, I can kind of tell the difference with the tendons, but I'm not sure how well it would react in uses where your moving your hand a lot now that the center of where your pressing on the input device (no longer can you just call it a mouse...) seems to be more toward the wrist, so forward or side to side movements would require more effort or at least leverage. Would be interesting to try it out though.
We don't need an "overrated" so much as we need a "you completely missed the parent's point, dumbass..."
Why not a special version for Slashdot moderators which allows just the one middle finger to be used for moderation?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Just imagine how efficient a system could be if you just had two mice working together, you could click type on a screen keyboard twice as fast. Not to mention get carpal tunnel in both hands at the same time!
The design seems similar to the (sadly no longer available) Trackman Marble FX from logitech. It's a trackball with an oversized ball and ergonomically positions buttons. Very comfortable. I'm hoarding three of them and will continue to use them with all my future computers. Fortunately, since the motion sensor is optical, it's very easy to clean, and so I expect mine to last approximately forever
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horsies?
Geez. I've already gotten use to the spider-goat pointing device used for navigating the Web and butting into blogs. Now I have to get used to this new horse-mouse!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
People trying to create revolutionary new keyboard/mouse designs should just give it up, nobody will be easily persuaded to change even if they know that their current setup is harmful to them. Society today tells us that almost everything gives out a cancer risk, radioactive waves, or psychic mind control beams, so people have become disillusioned to it all.
There are 2 types of people in the world, those who find that stupid binary joke funny, and those who don't.
I've been using this for more than a year now. Love it. Solved my wrist pain almost immediately. The Vertical Mouse http://www.evoluent.com/
Just turn it upside down.
We really rode that horse into the f%$#ing ground, didn't we?
-rt
Am I the only one whose first thought was, "Heroin? WTF does that have to do with mice? Isn't that against some law, or at the least, a good waste of H?"
The previous sig has been removed due to
One thing that manufacturers overlook is that not everyone has the same size hands.
I have fairly large hands (the original X-Box controller fit me nicely), and these form-fit mouses just don't work. I use Logitech's original optical scroll mouse and I move it around with my fingers, barely moving my wrist at all. I actually prefer this to moving my whole arm.
Help I'm a rock.
From the looks of the picture, it should be called the "Beluga (Whale) Mouse"!
I'm forced to wonder, however, why there is such a focus put on mice and not trackballs. Every person that I've ever convinced to switch to a trackball has said that they'll never go back to mice again. It offers finer control than most mice and doesn't need any desk space except where it sits.
Then again, Windows, like a mouse (not the live kind), is cluttered, unrefined, requires a lot of room, and can be a pain in places other than the wrist, yet people still go for that even when there are better alternatives, too. So, I probably shouldn't be surprised of the effort to push mice instead of trackballs.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
I wouldnt trade my mouse for the world
http://onticfusion.sytes.net/
ergonomical?
"The Borba"
What's wrong with the natural keyboard (beside the fact is has "Microsoft" written on it)? I've been using them for 6 or 7 years. The one I'm currently typing on was manufactured in '98 (so the imprint says on the underside of it). I can honestly say this damn thing saved my wrists and fingers. I've been typing since my Dad bought a C=64 in the early 80's and prior to buying this keyboard, my wrists were really hurting. I also use a MS intellimouse (yup, version 1.0... :-) ) and this Natural keyboard.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
so I prefer to call it a rat.
My rights don't need management.
I always prefer a trakball. It doesn't need extra deskspace, it's faster and more accurate, its stationary base doesn't require wireless for freedom from entanglement. Its buttons are isolated from its cursor-movement, so clicking doesn't change position. And the fingerflicks don't torture my hand, as manipulations are hardly ever repeated exactly, even during long sessions. Of course, I'd prefer a simple pen interface, but that would really only work with a new GUI paradigm, like executable flowcharts, and probably a new pen. A trakball works with all my existing mouse apps, and doesn't hurt my hand, while I literally track circles around mousers.
--
make install -not war
Whoever moderated this Offtopic is gonna get meta-moderated "unfair."
This is definitely flamebait, but not a troll because it does pertain to the article and is a coherent opinion on the article. It also could be redundant as I'm sure lots of people are saying it, but unless there's at least one highly modded post saying "that doesn't look like a horse," it's not technically redundant.
Too often people mod things that they think are obvious as "redundant," but that is incorrect.
The xbox controller cable is practically made for usb. So you can cut it open and solder a usb cable to it, and these drivers are all you need for it to work as a game pad. Once that's done, a simple program lets you use it as a 16 button mouse (with rumble support).
I personally find a trackpoint comfortable, it puts a lot of stress on my hand but it pays to be cool just like with smoking.
I switched to a natural keyboard while I was doing a lot of writing. All the wrist pains were gone in a few days.
/.ed and the picture won't load.
It's one change I am glad I made. I'm not about to go back to the old style. It's just not comfortable anymore.
I also had to make changes regarding my mouse. Logitech, and almost every other company out there, sticks with designs that force your wrist to bend backwards, which has given me a lot of pain. Even a number of trackballs do this. I've found I almost have to have a wrist pad to keep my wrist high enough that it doesn't have to bend backward.
While I'm writing, my concern is the keyboard, when when I'm installing systems, or doing graphic work, or other work that makes heavy use of a mouse, I find most mouse designs have serious problems for a really heavy user (meaning I'll be at the computer for 20 hours at a stretch, with short breaks).
I can't comment on this design, though, since the page has already been
Or maybe Johnny Mnemonic.
...except maybe when your pop-up blocker fails and you have to do the close action 1000 times.
Keep those hands and arms active and they won't be stressed from being in the same position all the time.
Personally, I find the problem has almost nothing to do with the shape of my mouse.
The most fatiguing aspect my own mousing is wrist-related. While you're using a mouse, your arm is just sort of hanging out there, putting a lot of stress on your wrist.
Think about it, in order to use your mouse, you MUST hold your elbow above the desk the whole time.
Some work has been done to alleviate wrist strain by adding those gel wrist pads, but I think what we really need to see is another pad further back to support your forearm.
The actual standard mouse shape itself is pretty good.
Try this:
Put your hand on your mouse.
Allow it to rotate to a comfortable angle. (For me about 10 deg CCW.)
Freeze your hand and wrist in that position, lift your hand up and look at it.
For me, the result is a very natural even spacing between all my fingers, almost the same you would see if let your arm go limp at your side.
IMO, workstations need more forearm support, not a different-shaped mouse. Take writing for example, you typically rest not just your wrist, but your whole arm on the paper as you write.
Life is too short to proofread.
It works for lefties too, they just have to use it in their other hand..
So when will Apple come out with their 1-button horse?
I may be wrong, but doesn't the posture necessitated by this type of device lend itself easier to causing carpal tunnel?
With the hand angled up higher than with a usual mouse, it seems that more pressure would be placed on the wrist where it touches one's desk.
It seems similar to raising one's keyboard with the little legs on the back of it, which is something I've heard also can help one develop carpal tunnel syndrome?
I've always wished I could use something like a pen instead of a mouse. I've seen some pens like that, but they're for graphics editing programs and need a special trackpad. Any opinions on mice vs pens?
http://www.3m.com/cws/renmouse.html
http://www.3m.com/cws/renmouse.html
My wrist soreness disappeared in a week using this. Everyonei know who had wrist problems had them go away after using this. Get one, and try it for aweek to get used to it. I will never buy a normal mouse again.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Is that prison slang?
Every person that I've ever convinced to switch to a trackball has said that they'll never go back to mice again.
I've tried half a dozen trackballs and I've always gone back to a mouse.
Trackballs hurt me... they require more precision than I'm easily capable of. They don't seem to want to stay put, so I'm forever chasing the pointer around the screen.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to imply that a trackball should be used by everyone. There are obviously reasons, such as yours, why mice are preferred.
I just don't understand why there seem to be a bazillion mice (most of which are pretty much the same anyway) for each model of trackball that's out there. Oh, well.
I understand what you're saying, though. I have large hands, and the only trackball that I could find at the time that would fit is the *ugh* Microsoft Trackball Optical. Believe me, I had to swallow my pride with that one, but I know that the Logitech competitive trackball that was also for sale would have been painful after a while.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Think about it, in order to use your mouse, you MUST hold your elbow above the desk the whole time.
Actually, no. I always rest my elbow on the table when I use a mouse. If not, my shoulder will be aching (sp?) after a few minutes.
Of course, this is only possible if I can move the mouse with the fingertips without moving the elbow. This is exactly where most "ergonomic" mice fails:
The inventors falsely believe that the hand will be tighly closed around the mouse. But this means that moving the mouse without moving/lifting the elbow is impossible.
Instead, a truely ergonomic mouse should allow as much movement as possible without moving the elbow. This can only be accomplished with a small mouse.
your biased right hand designs make only a few of us left
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
I used to sell running shoes in a sporting goods store when I was in high school, and I got really good at it. Oftentimes, I'd sell 3 pairs to each person, who originally only came in for one comfortable pair. How did I do it? I told them that the way to cure their foot pain isn't to look for the perfect shoe, it's to find a few different pairs that are reasonably comfortable, and wear a different one each day. That way, your feet don't keep getting sore in the same places day in and day out since each model of shoe fits slightly differently.
For most people, it was the first time they'd ever heard of the idea, but it makes such great sense, that it's almost obvious. I used to think I was some kind of shoe genius for figuring that out - until I started noticing that selling 3 pairs of shoes to hard-core runners is really easy, they've been doing it all along...So, yes, I can vouch for the idea of rotating whatever it is that you're using repetitively, it really works, not just for shoes, but for anything.
I have been using one of these for well over a year.
Coupled with USB Overdrive (Sorry, Mac only!) this is the best mouse I've ever used. Good luck finding one in North America, though.
I keep my hand straight and rest my arm on the desktop. The mousepad I use raises the mouse just enough so that I can rest my wrist on the pad and move the mouse with my fingers and a minimum of wrist/arm movement.
I've rotated the pad 90 degrees, so that the "top" is now one of the "sides". This give me more than enough room to move the mouse and still have sufficient area for resting my wrist on the pad. YMMV.
Not only is it a functionally superior mouse, it's also bloody gorgeous, too. A beautiful little piece of abstract sculpture on my desktop.
I can, and have, used it for hours at a time with no distress whatsoever.
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
The article was posted yesterday.
And maybe you mirrored here, which makes your post redundant.
I just don't understand why there seem to be a bazillion mice (most of which are pretty much the same anyway) for each model of trackball that's out there.
:)
That's OK, I can't understand why every time I get to the store there's a bunch of different kinds of trackballs and half a dozen variants of the Microsoft Optical Wheel Mouse and *zero* three-button mice. No, a wheel mouse that lets you click the wheel isn't a three button mouse... it's a two-button mouse with a wheel.
What I really want is a mouse with an IBM trackpoint widget that acts like a "hat controller" and lets me scroll in both directions. IBM made a mouse with a trackpoint widget, but for some BIZARRE reason it didn't support left-right motion. Now why didn't it succeed?
Now Microsoft's come out with a mouse with a wheel you can pivot left and right.
Christ. Talk about a Heath-Robinson (Rube-Goldberg for you yanks) solution to the problem...
But, anyway, I don't see any shortage of trackballs. Quite the opposite.
The one thing that keeps me dual booting winxp and using a mouse as opposed to a trackball is GAMES. I have a hard time aiming in FPS games with a trackball.
Mouse is Dying !
An ordinary three button optical mouse is best. Combining buttons 4 and 5 with 3 (scrollwheel) is the most significant development ever for the lowly mouse. I can type hours after I'm unable to click. A keyboard with an integrated trackball might be better still. (Who makes one?) Use the useles meta-keys ("Windows keys", "penguin keys", "apple keys", etc.) Possibly toggle the trackball to be a scrollwheel with a simple key combination or with another useless key, like "CapsLock". Since I don't have such a keyboard to map, the ordinary mouse will do just fine.
Some simple suggestions: (most possible only with Unix)
Turn of "click to focus". It's simply not needed.
Avoid "doubble clicks" whenever possible. This has got to be the stupidest idea ever.
A "tap" is better than a click. (used in CAD, but has other uses)
The clipboard (^C ^X ^V) is almost always avoidable. Here the mouse is the best tool as anyone who uses X knows. If a clipboard is needed (CAD, draw and paint applications, etc) get that on the mouse using "taps".
The simple conclusion is the less you need the mouse, the better off you are. Set up your own environment reality! Choice is the key.
As for the "horse", its a two-button mouse that also appears to have too much mass. If I see one I'll try it -- promise.
This one is really good unless you need a lot of accuracy. Takes a bit getting used to, but once you start using it, it's a life saver. At least it was for me.
http://www.contourdesign.com/rollermouse/
Well, it worked for me.
No more working, same income.
I travelled to France this spring and will visit SE-Asia in the summer with my man Malik.
So much better than working for white ugly horny bosses.
I distinctly remember seeing similar computer mouse in the early 90s. Pretty sure that one was made by Philips and probably Logitech too.
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
AUGH. From the page you linked...
Wheel tilts for side-to-side scrolling, Cruise Control(TM) rocker for speed-scrolling up and down, and zoom with a click of the wheel
They've put four buttons around the wheel like a Nintendo Gamepad. Great idea, but then... who needs the wheel? Give me one of those without the wheel (or with a trackpoint controller that works the same way).
Ironically, Logitech did a half-assed implementation of a better way to scroll with the mouse. They had a program that let you use the middle button in their three button mouse as a grabber. When you clicked the button it put a distinctive icon on the page, and when you dragged the mouse it scrolled up and down.
Now if you just left off the icon (because it tended to clutter things up and interacted poorly with many programs), and let you scroll sideways with the middle button... your simple three-button mouse would work better than the latest pivot-rocker-scroll-wheel-thumb-button monster.
*sigh*
If you want to see the next evolution of the computer mouse, try the iGesture http://www.fingerworks.com/igesture_tech.html. It rocks - I used one for a few months and loved it. It's basically a 6.25" x 5" chording touchpad. You can do anything a mouse can do with only 2 fingers, and a whole lot more with thumb and up to 3 finger combinations and gestures. The interface is really intuitive. You want to cut&paste something? Just use your fingers like a scissors closing, drag it somewhere, then open your fingers to paste. I thought it really helped my productivity, but using a regular mouse after a few hours of the touchpad was disconcerting.
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
someone had to say it didnt they?
120 chars is not bloody enough for a real sig!!! you bastards even count spaces!!!
more weird mice!
Sorry, that is just one of those imaginary words that drives me up the wall.
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
It looks like one of the cute little ghosts from the old Super Mario 64.
I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
It looks like a cross between an evil chipmunk and a startrooper.
That's not a horse, its a DUCK!
Huh?
I prefer the term SLASHED. it's so much quicker than SLASHDOTTED.
anyway image works.. article doesn't. have we slahdotted the Coral network?
--
The Wolfkin
With a trackpad you only have to move your finger not the whole hand, no motion no stress, no nothing. I've used only trackpads for over ten years with laptops as well as desktops. Trackpads for desktops cost $15-50. There are also desktop keyoards with integrated trackpads. In my opinion:
1)Trackpad - the best
2)Optical mouse - acceptable but not great
3)Trackball - so and so
4)Classical mouse - bad
5)Accupoint - the worst mouse ever
Imagine your index and ring fingers are your two legs.. and your middle finger is your.. erm.. third leg.. and that the scroll wheel is.. you know..
Oh yeah baby! Give me the horse anyday!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
I made the switch over to a trackball a couple years back, and I never want to use a mouse again. Not only does it provide much more precision, I find that it's more automatic to keep your hand in a more erogonomic position, because you aren't moving it around all the time. It's also a big advantage if you happen to have a small or messy desk, because it requires much less space to operate. I also find that I have to clean it much less, and don't have to worry about what surface I'm using the mouse on. Plus it keeps others away from my computer as most people can't figure out how to use it. It takes about an hour of straight usage to figure it out, but most people don't give it that much of a chance.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Looks like one.
- A R T
The use of a conventional computer mouse requires continuous lifting of the fingers.
The first mouse I ever used, on the AT&T 5620 terminal, didn't have this problem. Your hand draped naturally over the mouse, and you could relax your fingers completely rather than having to hold them up to keep from clicking. Even though it was perfectly symmetric, there was no handedness problem either.
Some day I may try to take the guts of a modern mouse and fab up a new one in this form factor.
It's rare that I get fatigue in my wrists from using the computer and I use it ALL the time. However the desk I sit at, at home at least has support just as you describe. There is a little pad that runs across the keyboard/mouse tray, then my chair has armrests at the correct height. The net effect is that my arm sits nice n' flat when using the mouse, and is supported at the elbow and the wrist.
Seems to work at any rate.
when will they ever make mice like that for people who use mice with their left hands? That's my frustration with like 90% of the awesome "ergonomic" mice - they're only for the right hand. It's utterly insane.
Actually, I shouldn't be speaking, 2 of my computers are laptops, and I like using the one-button Apple mouse. Unfortunately my favourite mouse is the logitech mx900...
What I find with mice is they are always too small. I personally think that a mouse that would fit my entire hand rather then 2 finger would be way more comfortable, and possibly better for me. The best thing I found so far was the MS intellimouse 4, but that is still far from what I am looking for.
Is like beating a dead horse.
I have been getting pretty bad RSI from using a regular wheel mouse for intensive video editing work for number of years. I have now finally found a much better solution - A pen and tablet type thing. I use a fairly small one about 4inces across and I've further reduced the operating area of it so that I can get around the screen faster. Once you get used to it (a week or so) I have to say it is much faster and less imapctfull on my body than any mouse. It's just like writing. Most professional video editors seem to use them but I would recommend small ones as a total mouse replacement!
ther is a firefox extension and search plugin for coralizing a link or address ... check em out
------ no thanks... I've quit
Painters have long been trained that the best way to control curves is to paint with their shoulders, not their wrists.
Obviously your mileage varies. Personally I find a trackerball (I use either the optical logitech or microsoft ones - no rubbish) are far superior to mice for FPS. Much, much faster response and far more accurate.
What kind of mouse are you using? I have an Intellimouse and my wrist is either bent the right way, or it is straight. Either you buy very tall mice, or you need to take your mouse off the floor and put it on your desk.
While some of that may be true, one of the main reasons that the differences in numbers is so staggering is because of the industry more than the actual workers themselves. In manual labor situations (especially the poulty/meat business) there is a lot of pressure to not get hurt, so workers that are hurt often don't make claims. In addition to this, the manual laborers are often too poor to get their own medical treatment, and are stuck using the corporate doctor, I don't think I need to explain more there.
I would say it is more that the office workers have a better environment and thus feel free enough to make these claims than they are simply spoiled and abusing it (which is not to say that it never happens either.)
You may want to check out "fast food nation" by Eric Schlosser for more on the plight of the meat/poultry workers.
That's no horse, that's a seal pup. Does it leave a trail of blood?
There's gotta be some Hidalgo joke missing from the article.
The Mouse/Horse will communicate via m-orse code to the computer (mouse horse code). The Mouse/Horse will be stored in a h-ouse (horse mouse storage). Man, thats going to confuse AOL users.
I recently (6 months ago) made the switch from the $20 Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse to the $50 Logitech MX510. Aside from the seemingly thousands of buttons that this mouse has, and the incredible tracking, the way it fits my hand is simply out of this world.
I've never really been a fan of mice that are shaped like this one, but after using it for so long, it really makes my hand hurt to use anything else.
I have had pretty bad degenerative arthrits since I was quite young (5 years old), so I need the most comfort I can get. Being in the web development field, I spend a lot of time either alt+tab'ing my way between windows, or using my mouse to do the same. Because of this, I need the best equipment at an affordable price to minimize the discomfort and pain I experience.
Looking at the "horse" makes my hands hurt, thinking about how it would make my hand rest.
Yep. Nothing special about this at all. They can call it horse, or cart, or anything they want, but it's plainly a mouse. And I don't buy that extensor thing at all: my fingers rest quite happily on the mouse buttons, without any of the continual lifting of fingers they talk about.
:/
Maybe they just bought a crap mouse, and a assumed they were all like that, but I'm guessing this article is all about making someone cash
Does the name mean that I have to push an object the size of a horse around? I don't see how that's more ergonomic.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
That is why I have my Logitech trackball connected to my Mac (used for everything but gaming) and my MX-700 connected to my PC (only for gaming). The keyboard and video are KVM'ed.
My Kensington Expert Mouse does this somewhat already.
It's a large trackball (the size of a billiard ball), and your three middle fingers do curve over it to reach the buttons during normal use. It does have a thumb scrollwheel, going around the circumference of the trackball! This is a very handy feature, and lets you dial through pages extremely fast (faster than you could wiggle your middle finger using an ordinary mouse wheel). It's optical, so it's precise and doesn't have the sticky-wheels problem older trackballs used to have.
Disadvantages:
* No place to rest a wrist (the provided wrist rest is a small little joke). A folded-up old sock fixes this.
* Dodgy Windows driver. (It's marked as "beta", but really is the only choice, since the officially released driver is absolutely ancient.) It really hates my switchbox, and doesn't have any way of regaining synchronization short of rebooting the machine. Works fine in Linux, though, but all the buttons aren't recognized (there are 4 buttons).
* The trackball doesn't track fast enough when rolled at high speed, making it useless for certain applications.
Still, I like it because it does fit my fingers better, and has some of the advantages of this new "horse" mouse.
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
A man called horse
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
That's grammartabulous!
Heh! Maybe we should make deal. I'll supply mice for you to sell over there and you supply me with trackballs to sell over here. :)
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
The Horse will communicate via m-orse code to the computer (mouse horse code).
The Horse will be stored in a h-ouse (horse mouse storage).
In other news, the leftorium now contains horse mice. Now all you need is a stable computer.
I know... bad joke. You may pillage my karma now.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
That's why left handed people live shorter.
Convert to the right hand, devilspawn.
Logitec (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/produc tlist/US/EN,crid=2199)
has been on this for years now. And they apparently have never needed to catter to lefties?
Ergonomics are great, but not when you have to contort your other hand to paste.
Eight years ago, I used an old two-button ps2 ball-mouse. Then my father got a new computer, and there was a new sheriff in town - a logitech trackman. Comfortable, smooth, and THREE BUTTONS!!!! Wow! when I got my own computer in 2001, I bought the next version - a Logitech trackman wheel. It's even availible in a cordless version! What I like best about this mouse is when I'm at a packed lan party, I don't need any space to move my hand!
You are confusing me with someone who cares.
but I'm not going to get rid of my MX500. It has eight buttons all over the place, and while this "horse" would be cool, it needs to be more versatile even though it might feel more comfortable how it is.
http://www.walkingtaco.com
Funny, how I now use a mouse is elbow resting, wrist slightly resting, and using my elbow as the pivot point for sweeping movements, and wrist as a pivot point for fine movements. In all actuality my elbow never actually moves from its pivot point, 'cept when it wallows out a spot in the cushioning in the armrest and i reposition it.
I discovered this when i got a computer chair that allows me to raise and lower the armrests. Meaning i used to suffer repetitive wrist strain before i was able to adjust the height of my elbow relative to my wrist and mouse. Keeping the elbow a breath higher than mousing surface has reduced my strain to nil.
It now causes me to cringe when i see others using chairs where the armrests are set lower to allow the seat of the chair to go fully under the desk, and they have their wrists cocked at a strange angle to compensate for their elbows being inches below their wrists.
I was having symptons (tingling in wring). What I have found is that once you have your monitor and keyboard on the desk, there is little room for your arms. That results in your wrist being bent, and that is what causes the problem.
A computer desk with a surface deep enough to provide adequate space is hard to find. I solved that by C clamping a large (3' x 3') piece of wood to the computer desk. Now my arms are flat on the table when I use the mouse and I don't have problems anymore.
Before I took my hand off the mouse to type this my elbow was _below_ the level of the desk, rising to my wrist, which rested on the edge of the desk. The mouse moved over the whole of the screen when pushed by just the movement of my hand/fingers. I'm not gripping it tightly at all, it's more nestled in a cage made by my hand. Very comfortable for long periods.
My Journal
The thumb scroll on any inovative mouse should be up and down, not forward and back. Up and down is a natural and easy movement for the thumb to make. It's also less stress on the joint of the thumb. I'm suprised they didn't implement it like that.
or else!
Basically, this is a track ball that is about the size of a billiards ball, not one of those 1-inch diameter "thumb rollers". With this mouse, you use your index, middle and ring fingers to manipulate the ball, your thumb and pinky to left/right click, all while your wrist rests on a pad and doesn't move.
I've tried recommending this to people for the last two years, and very few people use them. For the most part, the resistance is due to the complete change of how you use a computer's pointer. However, the ones who have switched don't complain about wrist pain anymore, and tend to swear by the things.
Whats bad about the device? Three things:
If you're working with computers most of your week, you should really be considering ergonomic solutions.
Note that I do not work for Kensington, nor do I get any kind of kick-back at all. I simply found that this product really helped my discomfort issue, and that there doesn't seem to be another product on the market like this one.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
AirO2bic Mouse
This looks a lot like the Colani mouse that I had back in '95. It was comfortable to use, but I've gotten pretty used to my Kensington Expert Mouse Trackball.
Here come da fudge!