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The Problem with DHS's Plan to 'Buy American'
An anonymous reader points out a Cnet report on the
Homeland Security Authorization Act, which would require that more than 50 percent of the components in any end product bought by the Department of Homeland Security be produced or manufactured in the U.S., writing "The Pentagon has agreements with 21 countries that waive the act, but an amendment that just passed the House would prevent the DHS from waiving the 'Buy American' restrictions. "The president of the Information Technology Association of America observed that this means the DHS may 'have to learn to do without computers and cell phones,' since he could not think of any manufacturers of those devices that would meet the 50% threshold."
The Saudi Arabs already did. They bought their American -- George W.
Sad but true.
Haven't you heard, Americans are above making things. Our hands might get dirty like.
Congress is just out of it, like always.
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
Well I've been to india and in the police office they are not aloud to use non-indian stuff. All i can say is the quality sucks.
Bring back 'em home !!
I don't own a single piece of electronics that was made in the US. Infact I don't know anyone who owns any american electronics. Do such things even exist anymore?
a rather stupid rulling here , If your going to run a department which deals with national security it is in your intrests to use the best avaliable .Arguments on the usefullness of the DHS aside , if they want to perform to peak effiency they must use the best the world has to offer not the best the USA has to offer.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
i find it sad that our own government agencies are being forced to buy american because they wouldn't otherwise. what does that say about the american economy?
that the 'Buy American' scam is really just an attempt to protect American companies from cheaper competitors under the guise of 'security'
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
No need to worry about this. DHS will just have the regs changed to mean that 50% of components by weight must come from within the US. Then they can just add lead weights to every computer case and cell phone housing manufactured in the US, to allow all those patriotic manufacturers to make some scratch off the war on terror.
9/11! NEVER FORGET!
The United States manufactures primarily US Dollars. Military hardware is second to that. In exchange for these two products, other countries send everything else here.
Who the hell cares what they buy? Shouldn't we be looking at why our government and constitution has been hijacked by people with hidden agendas? It will be too late to speak up when the heel of their boot is over your mouth.
This is insane.
The sum result is that the products bought will be more expensive than they would otherwise be.
What exactly is the benefit of this? American companies benefit by having more trade? but they're *paying* for that additional trade in their taxes, because the State has to pay more to buy the more expensive products.
--
Toby
... with the same sort of thing, but even more strict?
I seem to remember the prediction that the US would do something similar. Voila! It came true.
the best is one thing, security is another. if they don't go with US based companies, *and* ensure that those companies are not outsourcing priority or work that 'should it fall into the wrong hands' out of the country, then that is high risk.
do you have shinyfeet?
What about things like uniforms? I know most cheap bulk clothing is manufactured in East Asia.
So the government can spend an extra $8 per item times how ever many items. What does that mean? That means they raise taxes to pay for it. That is always good for our economy. Sure that money is going to US companies, but it is getting taxed right back.
If we buy foreign, we SAVE $8 per item. There are two ways to look at that. There is the civilian, and the governement. The civilian ways say they need less money, so the government can send the money elsewhere (medicare, medicade, SS, military, etc.). The government way says that they can keep the same budget and spend that $8 on other things, like heated toilet seats (joking).
Either way, it is more efficient to buy foreign if cheaper. Spend the extra on little American flags to give out to anyone who calls you anti-american for voting to allow them to waive the provision. Save the flag waiving for when it matters, not pointless rules to make you look good.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
This seems to me to be payback to american industry for the funding GWB received during his presidential election campaign.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
Instead of 'BUYING AMERICAN', you should focus on the core problem: Industries leaving the US.
When an industry is completely wiped out in America because of overseas tactical price gouging, one should take a hard look at Tariffs. Sure, maybe 100% of your industry shouldn't be conserved because some may not be efficient, but shouldn't you conserve at least 10% of your industry like you conserve an endangered species?
When you lose all your industry, then you're presented with the problem that the overseas people can overcharge you due to monopolistic power. But if you charge tariffs and protect weak, domestic industry then they can never get to the point to overcharge you. Indeed you actually make money for your own government on the imported goods.
God spoke to me.
"Arguments on the usefullness of the DHS aside , if they want to perform to peak effiency they must use the best the world has to offer not the best the USA has to offer."
You might want to keep in mind what we did to the Russians, before you leap to your conclusion.
I guess you can't have the Total Information Awareness project if they can't buy any computers since all of the hardware is made in Taiwan...
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Either by corporate globalization (searching for cheap labor) or "not in my backyard" syndrome, we've moved most major manufacturing out of this country (or we let it go).
And now some showoff congressman is demanding DHS 'buy American.' (Do we still make stuff here?)
What kind of hilarity can ensue? Let's see:
- corporations will move a few employees around to meet the claim of 'made in America'
- countries who make our products get pissed 'cause we're threatening their income- trade sanctions, sabre rattling, etc.
- exceptions will be made for certain countries with attendant political maneuvering. End result: almost every country will be on the exceptions list. Except the axis o' evil / 'terra' nations.
Guess they'll go cold this winter - no oil and gas from Canada for Homeland Security...
Oh well, what the hell...
With the way that America is today, anything like this would end up as a flop. We like things cheap and fast, and this would makes things expensive and slow....
I see no way that this would help our 'security'. I think the last thing we need is our goverment to spend time and resources comming up with this, when they could be doing something more useful.
i think it's ok to buy stuff from other countrys, but a good reason to buy domestic products is incase one of our suppliers stops sending us weapons, etc. having the factorys right in the US, you don't need to worry about disruptions in the supply line. but if our suppliers become angry, they might cut off our supplies or send us defective products.
so basicly, it's important for the US to be able to make it's own supplies in a time of need.
I mean, if components are assembled in the US from 100% imported subcomponents, does that make them foreign components or US made components.
For example, every chip on a motherboard could be made in Taiwan, but if the board itself is put together in the US then who made it?
There's one primary thing I think people are forgetting. Most majour corporations are multinational. So what is an "American" company? When your all over the place, and a lot of your investors aren't even in America. Let alone the fact that even "American" goods are composed of mostly foreign components.
Personally, I think it's about time we bought American.
Honestly, we've got the Chinese with artifically pegged currency that makes second quality cheap goods and floods our markets.
Then, we've got India, again, second quality cheap ass goods, but also stealing IP.
I don't see anything wrong with a mandate stating we should buy American, personally, I'd raise the percentage a good big higher.
I'm fed up with this country propping up 3rd world countries with governments that refuse to play by rules that allow us to export to them as well.
Make it 90% content.
This is +5, Insightful. Not funny at all.
"When an industry is completely wiped out in America because of overseas tactical price gouging, one should take a hard look at Tariffs. Sure, maybe 100% of your industry shouldn't be conserved because some may not be efficient, but shouldn't you conserve at least 10% of your industry like you conserve an endangered species?"
SAVE THE CONTENT INDUSTRY!
we couldn't just build our own electronics industry. That'd be nuts.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
that congress needs to vote on an act that forces the DHS to buy American. Wouldn't one think that it should do it without the need of congress???
"Holy rusted metal, Batman!"
What counts as a "component"? If I sell a computer with all the screws made in the US, but everything else made somewhere else does each screw count as a component? If so that's an easy one to solve.. 20 screws, 10 other components, 66% "American Made". What if the hard drive has American transitors in it, does that count? How about if all the steel in the screws was "american" steel, but they were produced in China, are they American screws or Chinese screws? How about the Intel processor that was designed by American engineers by an American company, but produces in say Malasia?
The whole idea sounds rather stupid and vague in these modern times where everything has multiple sources. You don't even go into the whole political thing of "buying American" to see how silly the whole thing is.
AccountKiller
The problem for them is, very few industries are still located in America.
I know AMD opened a plant in Germany, but, apart from that, don't Intel and AMD still make their CPUs in the States?
lol.
go get 'em, comrade!
That if there is a buck to be made by making stuff in America, somebody will do it. Even if it's not happening right now, I'm sure it will.
I don't think it's right for the government to actively participate in the systematic screwing over of the working class that is a direct result of all the manufacturing jobs leaving town. This is a step in the right direction.
+5, Funny!
I work for a department of the NIH--the National Institute of Health. I have been closely associated with some large computer purchases, and I can tell you that, over a certain dollar amount, we must also source from US manufacturing plants.
The details of how this works aren't 100% clear to me--but I believe that major manufacturers have a manufacturing plant for just this purpose, although I don't know if they serve any other gov't institutes besides the NIH.
I can tell you that we can purchase Dell, Apple, and HP following the US sourcing rules. While it does indeed complicate the bidding process, it's not impossible. I would imagine that the DHS would tap the same resources; in fact, their use of these resources might drive down the prices for all gov't buyers who are currently constrained by this rule. The more the merrier.
The fact that you can't purchase "Made in the USA" computer goods at Best Buy really has no relation to the purchasing power of the US gov't.
--
$tar -xvf
These policies are just stupid. Apparently, all problems can be fixed through legislation. I like what Thoreau said in his Civil Disobedience paper: "Trade and commerce, if they were not made of India-rubber, would never manage to bounce over obstacles which legislators are continually putting in their way; and if one were to judge these men wholly by the effects of their actions and not partly by their intentions, they would deserve to be classed and punished with those mischevious persons who put obstructions on the railroads."
...just my 2 gil.
As something that would hinder the DHS's ability to function, I'd support it. On another note, though. If this is an attempt to protect US industries, then it really is a desperate measure. Propping up a dead (or dying) horse only works for so long.
It's bloody true!
Any country (my own included - UK) which imposes virtually ANY form of trade sanctions, does so to protect their over-priced home produce. This perpetuates global poverty by preventing someone from competing against you.
This is a bizarre twist on trade sanctions - I'll give you that. But to demand that a certain percentage of a product is manufactured in your own country just smacks too much of trade protection.
For security? Give me a break. . .
Wow some people are really in need of some objective teachings on how to use mod points
nothing to laugh about man it makes sence!!
it aint nukes keeping China off our backs, we could stave them out long before they'd win any war.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"Ah, the horror of cost accoounting."
Indeed. I can't wait for it to start happening in the IT sector.
Since the government buys their equipment using money from the US taxpayers, it seems in the best interests of the taxpayers and the country to keep as much of that money in the country as possible. Consider the following:
The US government outsources everything to companies in other countries - everything from highway construction to phone support to the IRS. Making up a number for the tax rate, call it 40%, that people pay, including the federal taxes in gas, phone service, licensing, income taxes, etc. This means that every year 40% of the countries GDP goes to another country or countries. That reduces the overall "value" of our country by that much. At the other end, if we pay nothing to other countries for services or aid or anything, the "value" of the country remains the same.
Now, I understand that this isn't realistic economically, but it illustrates the point. As a government, isn't it better for their citizens if as much of their expenditures as possible remain in the country? Yes, it is possible that buying from an outside source is cheaper, (for the nation as a whole), than buying locally. (For example, many food crops won't grow in the US and to irrigate/climate control the fields to support those crops would cost more than buying them outright from somewhere else.) However, for a few percentage points difference in the price, I doubt it, since we have to consider income taxes that the country "gets back" by taxing the workers who produce it. (Assuming all other aspects are equal.)With that said, I think it would be better overall to embrace a true global economy, so if someone in India can do a job better/faster/cheaper then they can do it. However, since we don't have a world government, and we still have this annoying habit of killing each other over things like imaginary lines on a map, I don't see any real alternative to being somewhat protective of the country you happen to reside in, whether that is the US, the UK, China or India.
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
there's little in the way of american physical produce left to buy, because america has bought wholesale into the fiction of I"P". Eliminate copyright and patent law, and americans would have to do real work, but might actually produce things themselves...
Whoo Hoo! Let's hear it for getting rid of the Florida Everglades, and the Rainforest. It's all about US, baby!
Their car-pool is going to be awfully empty, after they get rid of the Mercedes, Ferraris, Audis, Jaguars,
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
There are 2,000,000,000 Asians and Sub-Asians who can manufacture, design, forecast, engineer, program, compute, calculate, audit, or diagnose just about anything you can, at 85% of the quality and 15% of the wage. You do the math sucka! And then the mexicans and guatamalans are gonna come and groundskeep, construct, babysit, cook, and clean everything in sight.
You'd best do like me and get your ass in law school. That's one of the last refuges left.
American Cell Phone Company buys cell phone part pre-assembled from China for $20 and battery from Korea for $10, then does final assembly here and charges $61 wholesale to the gov't.
By value, it's over half American-made.
If 51% mass is the problem, bundle it with an American-made car battery and charging device.
You may think this is funny but crazy rules call for crazy workarounds.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This is a really good policy actually.
People will attack it because they feel that it is isolationist.
That's kind of the point.
See, if you go to war with the country that makes a critical component that you require to fight that war (a chip needed for a radar system perhaps), you're really screwed when that country refuses to sell it to you because you're at war with them.
Unless you have a sort of strong alliance with said country, you really should be producing anything that is critical to your national defence in-house.
... "why?". The world's becoming globalized - you can argue over and over if this a good or bad thing, but it's the way it is. I also have to wonder how many electronic devices are manufactured in the USA today. Yes, even USA companies have their products built elsewhere. Thanks to that you can buy your computers, consmer and electronic gadgets at the price you pay for them now.
Is there a real motive for such a decision or it's just a "Geee, we're 100% american!" sort of thing?
Yes, tovarisch! We must abandon the evil ways of capitalism, and follow into the glorious age when all the world will prosper and live peacefully, just like Cuba and North Korea!
Oh, wait...
[[ PLEASE INSERT "IN SOVIET RUSSIA" JOKE HERE ]]
Circumcision is child abuse.
What's with this constant setting of goals then lowering them when they aren't met? "Yes, we met our goal... er well after we lowered it to what we actually achieved."
Here is some background on Mr. Miller and the ITAA taken from his pitch to the voting machine manufacturers titled "Democracy for Sale, CHEAP!", August 22, 2003.
..
Some excerpts..
"Harris Miller (ITAA) Gives the intro spiel about the company and how it can help the industry "stave off short-term attacks" from academics and "activists"."
"Harris:
And there can be two scenarios there: The companies may want to hide behind me, they dont want to say anything... frequently that happens in a trade association, you dont want to talk about the issues as individual companies. We have that issue right now with the Buy America Act, for example in congress. No company wants to act like its against Buy America -- even though theyre all against it so I take all the heat for them."
I think that self incriminating statement made by Mr. Miller sums up his scum bag ITAA lobbying group quite nicely.
Buy into ITAA and let Miller do the lying !
You're socialists, and you use Windows Media? Thanks for the laugh, buddy.
I know it's not computer hardware but Bose is still made in USA...i think
People really have to stop thinking in terms of countries and think in terms of the World The services my government provides are payed for by people in my country, not by people in other countries. Once the rest of the world starts paying my government, we can talk about world welfare. Until then, country first.
Macs are manufactured in california for the different government boddies that require made in america.
For those worried about gov't erosion of civil liberties, well, no computers, no cell phones, maybe no electronics - I guess that about takes care of the problem, nothing to worry about, case closed.
Nice job, everyone.
(Too bad it'll just be ignored. I can see it now - as usual - oh, yeah, the law is the law, and everyone must obey it, unless of course it inconveniences us
There is a huge diference with Communisam-Socialisam and that of true Socialisam http://www.worldsocialism.org/ Educate Yourself first before you try to draw up comparisons to Communisam!!
The U.S. considers Taiwan to be a suitable supplier for ammunition of 100% foreign origin. So what's the big deal with electronics?
Well they have gone for decades trying to subvert the domestic economy for a quick $. Now its starting to hit home... OTOH now is the time to start making $3000 USD cell phones! Profig from the gov-ment!
Serious answer:
It's more environmentally friendly and more dense.
Funny answer:
The gov't procurement agent can separate it out and sell it to his friends for $1 using a sealed bit auction listed as "scrap metal."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The three in the rack across the hall from me are from Mexico.
http://www.socialist-tv.com/toppage1.htm thats where I found the video at. and their .avi .mov torrents arent working so I posted .wmv.
Apple's original Macintosh motherboards were made in the USA and the units were assembled here. Not sure where the components were made. Don't know about today's Macs, but someone else mentioned XServes are made in USA.
With any manufacturing process, "made in" is only meaningful on a step-by-step basis. Frequently, commodity parts may be multiply-sourced so one lot of, say, a power supply, may contain an XYZ capacitor from country A and another may contain an equivalent capacitor from country B.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Sounds like they are dying.
:-)
They cannot produce anything and they are struggling to hold on to the few things they have got.
ha ha ha!
I guess when America has nothing at all, they'll just bomb other countries to get what they want.
America no longer makes TVs. The last American company, Zenith, was bought out decades ago by some Korean firm I think.
I don't know. Judging by the every vigil blame clinton crowd, I kinda' doubt it....
Or is it just anti-Americanism?
Now go ahead and mod me troll or flamebait for having the audacity to stand up for my country.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I had a chat with an old farmer in New Zealand a few weeks ago. He was moaning about the high cost of New Zealand goods when trading with China due to the artificially low value of the Renmibi.
Well, duh! You think that communists are going to play by free market rules? How stupid can you get. We let China do this because we want cheap goods. But one day when we don't have indigenous industries the currency will be re-valued and the goods will have to be bought at their true prices. Look out for inflation, rising interest rates, a collapsing bond market, stocks taking a dive.
It's the Chinese seeking to overthrow capitalism from within. So much more effective than using an expensive military solution. And this way, the US doesn't see itself as under attack.
You've got to admire the plan, you really do.
...what was it...three days ago this was posted about how evil China was for locking out foreign countries from it's software market? There's no hypocrisy like that of the US government.
Just for the sake of arguement, do you believe this is capatilism?
--
Socialism is man exploiting man.
Capitalism is the opposite of Socialism.
If your going to live in a capitolist socieity, you have to be aware that this sort of thing can happen. You cannot tie your personal prosperity, or the prosperity of that nation, to jobs that will be undercut.
So the textile and clothing industry has locally gone to shit. Either you find a way to stay competitive, or you tighten your belt, suck it up, and work at Walmart. You you retrain for a job that cannot be out sourced. Or you find a tall building and take the quickest possible route to the side walk.
If the work is simple enough that it requires little to no skill, or can be taught on the job, its not a job worth keeping. It sucks if its the only job you are qualified to do, I suppose. And I suppose that such a job is better then nothing.
Bemoaning the loss of a job you would never choose to yourself is just stupid in any event. Worry about your own bottom line. Unless you worked at the textile plant and now work at walmart, what cause have you to complain?
END COMMUNICATION
No, it is actually African nations that supply the greatest amount of food to both the EU and to China, despite the poorly founded shadow of a point as you tried to call that is often mentioned but poorly founded.
If it's like DOD / Corps of Engineers contracts, the penalty is you don't get paid. When we do a Corps job, it states in the specifications you must meet the "Buy American" act. If I install foreign-made items, I have to either produce documentation confirming that the vendor is on the "exceptions" list the DOD has (which won't work for this case) or I have to replace the items.
Otherwise, the Corps won't sign off on the job and we don't get paid.
Thanks for pointing that out. Why are people so near-sighted on these things?
... it's not _just_ corruption that drives government to pay huge companies to keep plants open.
In life things are never as simple as they appear.
It's not even just the benefit payments [aka "welfare" in the USA], think of all those tiers of management that cream their wages off before the poor unemployed get their crust. Unemployment benefits I imagine are extremely inefficient
Your $8 saving may cost $2 in welfare, but that $2 of welfare might (I don't know, clearly!!) cost $7 extra to facilitate.
Then there's the knock on effect to other businesses, etc..
Actually no. China has more farmland per capita than the US does. Diversification has become a strong point of China since the Leap. Which nation do you think a few preeminent nuclear strikes would do more damage to-the one with more or the one with less available farmland per capita? Do you understand now that your argument is flawed?
In this thread, we the +5's tend toward denouncing the US's choice to effectively do the same thing. Is there some method to the madness? I'm genuinely curious...
apple pie
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
This is not just bad for free software, but this is a clarifying special case of why this requirement is in practice a subsidy. Things will be bought that are not required to do the job.
In addition, it should be remembered that US dollars flow back to where they can be used as legal tender. Ie: the US. Buying goods from abroad initiates the whole process of trade. But then economic and scientific illiteracy are patriotic: Americans live in a post-rational culture AFAICT.
Wikileaks, no DNS
Eventually, some bureucratic fig-leaf will emerge, e.g. the Puzzle Palace's waivers for 20+ countries.
OTOH, what sort of remark is it concerning the US that it is simply not cost-effective to make anything here anymore?
I'll try to be positive, and avoid the flamebait flogging of last week by saying: demonstrate some US-designed and built products (that don't suck), and I'll happily buy. For a company with the right marketing, it's a good opportunity.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
...the US-House of Saud relationship was cemented by FDR and continued by his successors both D and R. Apparanty few realize that.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
If you never pay a chimney sweep anymore, and you have a chimney, I will laugh when your creosote catches on fire and your house burns down. Nothing like slashdot to bring out the retards!
I am not the first person to point out here that very few electronics are made in America anymore. But I would like to point out that many people in America don't understand this, and that it is kind of counterintuitive and that various otherwise intelligent people's inability to understand this is causing some bad economic mistakes to be made all along the line.
I was born in 1979. I still remember when items like televisions, VCRs, Microwaves and the like were luxury items. For people born earlier, especially in the depression, the idea that goods like these often are literally not worth the space it takes to store them. Many people don't understand that televisions and stereos are mass produced in countries like Taiwan that 20 years ago were third world countries, and that Japan is past us in technology, Taiwan is pulling even, and countries like Malaysia are waiting to catch up.
The micro and macro effects of these are causing big ripples in our economy. If the pricing of housing goes up, and the price of consumer goods stays the same, what does that do? If you own an independent electronics retailer, and you sell televisions and stereos at 100 dollars each with a 10 dollar profit, how many do you have to sell to afford a standard 300,000 family home?
And, if the US is running a 60 billion dollar a month trade deficit, what is it going to sell to make up for that? Heavy manufactring used to be our bread and butter, but we would have to export (for example), 600 million tons of steel a month to make up that deficit. Pretty much the only thing the US has a clear edge in manufactring these days is commercial aircraft. But the people who are making economic policy don't realize this just because it contradicts their experience when they were growing up.
Okay. I have had my say.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
A free trade agreement with the USA is a very one sided affair, isn't it.
Consider the sugar tariffs you have in place in America becuase of your ideological objections to Cuba's existence. The result is that sugar is hugely expensive in the US. Thus, US sugar farmers (actually concentrated in a few wealthy corporations that make extensive political donations) make bucketloads of money at the expense of the ordinary US consumer. Furthermore, to avoid the sugar tarifs, most confectioners use high fructose corn syrup which is the closest thing to sugar they can find that does not get hit with the tariff. Frankly it tastes awful if you compare it with real sugar. Thus, as a result of the sugar tariffs, the US has higher prices for sugar than anywhere else in the world, has confectionary and soft drinks made with HFCS which taste awful, and enriches a few politically connected corporations as a result of it.
Now, dumping. Why should I object if someone wants to sell me something below cost? Normally you call that a bargain. If you manage to find a hard-drive below cost you would be crowing about it here. But do that in international trade an somehow its bad? Ooh, that's dumping, that's evil? You seem to presume that when you loose your, lets say, sugar industry you will be overcharged by that overseas monopoly. I hate to break it to you, but there is more to the world than "The US" and "The Rest". If you lost your domestic sugar industry you could buy sugar on the world market from any of a number of countries. Dumping is more the result of intense competition than monopoly.
Any questions?
This video fails take into account the factor of human greed. Inevitably, some number of people will be much more greedy than everyone else, and the whole concept of private property starts up again as the rest of people have to also be try to snatch up for themselves whatever they can just to survive.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The motive is to preserve our economy. With globalization, the only winners are the corporate executives. Just look at textiles, automotive, IT, and even cheap plastic crap has left America for other shores and the lost jobs in the process. There are other jobs but why remove an idustry from our nation just because a corporation wants to make it for less yet not lower the price? If they want to save money, they shouldn't waste profits by giving a good portion to executives who care nothing for the corporation and America.
This to me sends a bad signal: The DHS may be institucionalizing itself as a pillar of xenophobia in the US of A, and it is trying to reach well beyond its original role.
I see a potential vicious circle in the build, with DHS attracting more and more xenophobe weirdos, through publicity around acts like this, and thus becoming more and more extreme in its views. This is not going to help world peace the least, such a nationalistic movement popping up in the heart of the last remaining super power. Pity.
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
Americans don't want to work, that's why they have to keep bringing in Mexicans and Indians. Even El Presidente de Mexico concurs. I laugh at the world, making our products for us while we sit around unemployed, living off the fat of the land.
Forgot to mention, China has similar initiatives that apply to ALL government agencies, which require them to purchase software and technology made in China. I'm not sure offhand the exact degree, but I know it is in place.
"I'd also like to see the people responsible for these messes be forced to clean them up, rather than socializing the problems that capitalists created, which is what we're doing now."
So you're going to punish the American people for wanting cheap goods? How about the international market? Everyone wants cheap, but they don't want to pay the costs (whatever they may be).
Does that rule out Linux too?
It is not a bad idea. This may force many companies
to bring back some manufacturing to the USA instead of outsourcing everything outside.
The way American companies are going it won't be long that Walmart and McDonald jobs will be the only
jobs available.
See how George Soros has bought himself an entire American political party.
Start with something common, and in every piece of electrical goody I can think of, the tantalum capacitor. Now go try to find one made in the USA, in bigger than 100 quantity. Have fun, you'll need to go to China. I suspect most of the other discrete components are in a similar fix. Those IC's need these things to work with the real world, and we don't make them anymore. There ain't nobody running around Washington DC that could make it ten minutes trying to buy 100% American.
A once-successful company is permitted to get sloppy in design and manufacturing because it is protected from foreign competition.
and:
This is a situation that directly pits U.S. economic strength against the cheap, tariff-protected workers in the Asian economies, a losing proposition for the U.S,
I don't see anything "insightful" about taking opposing views of the benefits of protectionism in the same message. Bah!
it aint nukes keeping China off our backs, we could stave them out long before they'd win any war.
To whom it may apply:
People, please remember the above sentence the next time you complain about agricultural protectionism
by other nations or their reluctance to use genetically modified&patented seeds.
To ensure future independance from foreign nations for food supply is a very good reason for a nation to
use subventions or agricultural tariffs to protect its farmers.
Even those products stamped "Made in USA" may not meet the DHS criteria.
For example, most (all?) Dell desktops are assembled in the US. Dell maintains factories here, whith US workers to put together the "custom-configured" hardware they're so famous for. (Dell laptops come from overseas like everyone else's.)
The components they assemble, of course, are all from overseas. The cases, motherboards, drives, memory, power supplies...almost always imported. The criteria in the bill specifies >50% domestic components, so they don't qualify.
Besides around January-May, when most of the apples come from New Zealand!
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
and probably the 20 other countries on the list to have nationalist import laws, but it's not okay for us?
Fuck that... one reason our economy is so stagnant is because we're sending all of it overseas in the form of labor money and other trade-deficit items. For our economy to be strong, as much of our money must stay in it as possible. Other countries have figured this out and used this little fact to take us over economically...
...that you hold quite a few degrees in BS.
When China makes moves to regain control of Taiwan, we have sworn to protect Taiwan. If we uphold that commitment, will we be able to survive without Chinese goods?
I do not support in protectionist laws, on the same note I do not support in a foreign policy that creates enemies. Unfortunately, we are creating enemies as a record pace and that is likely to come to a head and we will have to deal with the fall out.
"Buy American" laws may be the most intellegent thing to have happened here for some time.
Ole Harris Miller got is start by working for Immigration Services Associates; an organization dedicated to providing cheap labor to rich Americans.
He's one of those "cheap labor conservatives dedicated to busting unions and offshoring.
This guy is a complete chump.
``I believe in interest groups and the right of interest groups to be represented, and if I can represent them on the Hill, well, I will do it,'' says Harris Miller, a former aide to Kentucky Democrat Romano Mazzoli's House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration who now has his own lobbying firm. Miller's first big client was the National Council of Agricultural Employers, a group of large growers who use migrant and illegal alien workers.
from http://www.ginaminks.com/blog/200312-index.html ...let's review his resume:
* Current President of ITAA, the IT Association of America. He speaks in this position to congress for any issue dealing with IT. It was he who cried we did not have enough IT workers in the 90s, even as older IT workers were being laid off in droves so that companies could hire cheaper, younger labor. He has close ties to NASSCOM, and promotes outsourcing as well as raising the cap on temporary visas (it appears we are once again having a *coughcough* labor shortage *coughcough*.
* Current President of the World Information Technology and Services Alliance. This group is a "is a consortium of 53 information technology (IT) industry associations from economies around the world". They believe in open markets.
* Member of the Board of Directors for ITT Educational Services . This company provides post-seconday degrees in high tech disciplines (hmmmm conflict of interest anyone???)
* Member of Virginia Research and Technology Advisory Commission. This group's mission is to advise Virginia's Governor "on appropriate research and technology strategies for the Commonwealth with emphasis on policy recommendations that will enhance the global competitive advantage of both research institutions and technology-based commercial endeavors within the Commonwealth."
* Formally, he worked for Immigration Services Associates, a DC government relations firm that specialized in immigration issues
* Was the Government Relations Director for Frogomen, Del REy & Bernsen, P.C (an immigration law firm).
* Ran his own gov't consulting firm, Harris Miller & Associates.
* legislative director to Senator John A. Durkin (D-N.H.)
* deputy director for congressional relations in the Office of Personnel Management
* legislative assistant for the Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees, and International Law on the House Committee on the Judiciary
* Education: undergrad (degree not specified) University of Pittsburgh, grad (degree not specified) Yale.
So how are the agricultural workers linked to Miller? According to Norm Matcloff's research, Miller proudly told The New Republic back in 1987:
``I believe in interest groups and the right of interest groups to be represented, and if I can represent them on the Hill, well, I will do it,'' says Harris Miller, a former aide to Kentucky Democrat Romano Mazzoli's House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration who now has his own lobbying firm. Miller's first big client was the National Council of Agricultural Employers, a group of large growers who use migrant and illegal alien workers.
(again, can you say *conflict of interest*?)
Miller used a certain policy tactic to help his agriculural clients back then, and now he has "moved up the value chain" to help his business clients gain control of the IT labor force. Here is how it worked with agriculture:
1. Industry associations flood the media with reports of acute labor shortages
2. Worker advocates argue that no shortage exists, but they're ignored
3. Legislation to create new temporary visa program passes. Provision built into the legislation to create a national database to search for qualified American applicants.
4. Farm worker wages decrease dramatically
5. Guestworkers are abused, treated as indentured servants
sound familiar??
It should.....
1. Industry associations flood the media with reports of acute labor shortages
2. Worker advocates argue that no shortage exists, but they're ignored
3. Legislation to create new temporary visa program passes.
4. IT wages decrease dramatically
5. Guestworkers are abused, treated as indentured servants
What will it take for someone to stop this cycle? What careers are next for this elimination program?
Thanks to GPL software, China can easily achieve their stated goal.
The US however, as stated by legions of slashdotters, does not make much anymore and therefore will find it difficult or impossible to achieve its stated goal.
Is this not fairly obvious?
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT CONTRACTS
Changes to regulations open doors to specific sectors, such as the US$200 billion US Government procurement market. Until now, the 'Buy America Act' has restricted Australian companies from bidding for US government contracts or obtaining GSA listings. Australia has been added to the Designated Country list, eliminating the 6% price penalty and enabling US Federal agencies and 29 US States to procure directly from Australian companies.
To me, that means that there should be a level playing field. If legislation like this can be introduced, and be legal under the FTA agreements, then that makes you wonder as to the validity or worth of such agreements. It would be ironic and disappointing if these agreements were to be entered into, only to be followed by a slew of legislation enabling exemptions.
Supid Fux'n Feds!!!!!!
tnfwsjz
CPU - Intel - US (check)
Operating System - Microsoft - US (check)
Memory - Micron - US (check)
Final Assembly - Dell -US (check)
Ok, lets stop the hype here - this is at least 1/2 the cost in a Dell system. Sure the hard drive is assembled somewhere else (from a US design) and the motherboard as well. What other component goes into one of these things that is expensive enough to make it a significant part of the cost (no - graphics cards can use the built in Intel functionality - and frankly Nvidia is a US company that manufactures overseas)
Now Cell Phones are a different thing, all though Qualcomm is a US company, that does the design in the US and manufactures elsewhere.
I could see any of these companies moving a subset of their manufacturing back to the US to meet the needs of this law, and then charging the US government twice what it costs to get a cell phone manufactured overseas... some because there isn't any local competition, and some because labor is more expensive here.
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Well, this is unsurprising. The Pentagon has a much better argument for their need of computers. ;)
Pentagon: We need computers to protect the country from nuclear-#$%&ing-missiles. kthx!
Homeland Security: We need computers so we know what you're doing every second of every day.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
would bring my brother and me God dammit, when will people learn to use I/me properly! It's not hard.. just pretend the 'and' components were not there. "my dad would bring I down there in the boat" .. that sounds retarded. Just as "me ate out last night". "She and I ate out last night." "He's the waiter who served her and me."
I can't imagine how the english of those we outsource to in india/china can be worse than our domestic brand.
But someone does. They exchanged the dollars for yuan. What happens to those dollars now?
Wikileaks, no DNS
You posted WMV on a site that advocates alternative OSes? Glory to the Red Horde.
I think there is something to be said for a policy of using domestic products when it comes to national security; But that isn't what this ruling is about, it is simply a PR foil to show that they are "supporting American industry". Even if that were true, it would be just another useless stopgap to a larger problem; The laws of economics dictate that labor will move to the places it is cheapest, i.e. the Third World. But why not attack this problem at its source? The reason thirld world labor is so cheap compared to American is that they don't enjoy the protections and decent standard of living that Americans do. Paradoxically the fruit of the labor movement's long struggle for fair treatment in this country is that jobs have simply moved elsewhere. But in, for example, China, workers don't even have the basic freedoms (like freedom of speech) that would allow them to better their lot like American workers did. We would find this problem easily solved if we simply refused to trade with countries that did not enforce fair labor standards. So why don't we do that? First because most of the power in the U.S. lies with the megacorporations who couldn't care less where things are manufactured as long as its cheap. Second because the American public doesn't really want this either. Fair treatment for sweatshop workers means that all the consumer garbage we love so much will suddenly become so expensive that we might have to, God forbid, do without some of it. Suddenly the plight of the Third world workforce doesn't seem so bad. Our current standard of living is sustainable only because we live off the the labor of what are basically slaves in the Third World. If we really want things to change we will have to start learning to live with a lot less stuff. If we don't we will find ourselves doing it anyways when we don't have a choice anymore.
Sitting at an oak table? You might want to knock on that wood. A set of degrees is just one part of your resume. Once you take that first job after you get your fourth degree, you'll be on a career path, which will determine far more than your educational background after a few short years.
I'm also surprised that you are thinking of your future based solely on what you consider to be better job opportunities in Asia. The cultural differences are, as I'm sure you know, rather stark. I would also be very interested to see if all of those humanities degrees amount to anything in societies that seemingly value technical capabilities far more than humanities education.
Regardless, I hope your prediction is true, but I would look on the degrees as a foot in the door, not as a ticket to the good life.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
it aint nukes keeping China off our backs
Well, the US is now now a net importer of food, so I'm interested to know how you think this might work.
we could stave them out long before they'd win any war
Sure, by nuking their distribution infrastructure.
But you said without nukes - are you suggesting we have things (funguses, virii, or something) that could make rice extinct?
... And Barn means child...
Guess this means DHS won't be shopping at Wal-Mart.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
This isn't a partisan issue. I don't know whether the US-Saud relationship was politically wise under FDR given what they knew back then and given what the world was like back then. What I do know is that over the last 20 years, it has become increasingly clear that it is incompatible with US claims of advancing democracy and freedom around the world.
If the current president still doesn't know that continuing the US-Saudi relationship on these terms is a mistake, he is either stupid, or has a financial interest in the relationship that keeps him from doing the right thing, or both.
Yes, that's right, and those people are poisoning themselves, particularly in China. The pollution in the industrial cities is so bad that if it goes unchecked, it will, paradoxically, threaten their economic survival. Ruined land and water is no good to anybody.
Sound familiar? Why yes, yes it does to those who know history. Happens to nearyl every country/region as it goes through it's "industrial revolution". Why? It's cheaper and faster.
Seems everyone knows it but is afraid to admit that sometimes you have to do things the cheap and dirty way to get to where you can do things the costly and clean way. Like learning hard math before easy math. Ideally we'd all earn from the mistakes of others but reality is not a synonym of ideally for good reason.
Tangentially: have you ever driven on I-80 through the Rust Belt? I'm talking about former manufacturing hubs like Buffalo, Gary, and parts of Cleveland. They look abandoned. And the factories? Rusting and abandoned. It's sad, not only because of the unemployment and social upheaval, but because great swaths of that abandoned land cannot be reclaimed for agriculture. The soil and groundwater is too polluted. So the hulks of the factories remain, the rusting monuments to America's fading greatness.
Quite the contrary. It is a fading monument to the "company town" ideal. Once you get out of the blinders caused by lookign in one or two places, and look at history of various cities you'll find that what you describe is only true of "company towns". In such a place one large company dominates the economy. If that company goes down, so does the town.
Yet in towns that allow people to create new markets and goods/services that are not dependent in toto on the company/industry that dominates it, they are still alive and thriving. if you go back through the history of dead end towns you often find laws that "protect" the company town mentality; ultimately destroying the town. This is true in every nation.
For every town like the one you describe, there are one or more that are thriving due to new industries and markets. Overall, the economy is simply better than it was even a mere decade ago, let alone a hundred years.
Barring global cataclysm eventually the massive industries particularly in manufacturing will be in orbit or on other planets. Then many will becry the loss of prestige their country once had, how all the jobs are going elsewhere, yadda yadda yadda. They'll still blame some amorphous cause, not realizing it is inevitable for one-horse towns. Meanwhile, those places that grow with the changes will continue to thrive.
And why can't that land be reclaimed for agriculture? Again, annoying government prevention. Much of that land certainly can be reclaimed for agriculture as well as other things. But alas, those pesky zoning laws and "protection" laws prevent it.
My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
"You can thank capitalism for that."
Thanks Trademarks.
Thanks Copyrights.
Thanks Patents.
Thanks Trade Secrets.
There was lots of whining about the Chinese government was mandating Chinese software only for government use.
How is this any different?
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Where did you get your economics degree? Perhaps you ought to consider asking for your money back.
m ance.html)
...
Here's is the shocker: China does not run a large trade surplus. (Serious, it's very very small, and was in '04 only slightly in the black.) Now, the numbers "experts" give you tell you that the US ran a $160bn trade deficit with China in the year to April '05. But that is against an overall trade surplus of just $26bn (which, trust me, isn't a lot of money when it comes to surpluses and deficits.)
(For details on China's trade performance, check this http://www.uschina.org/statistics/2005tradeperfor
But this is not relevent: China imports as much as it exports. It just happens not to import a lot from the US. It does however import a lot from Germany (which, along with Japan is the world's largest manufacturer of capital goods). So, China has a trade deficit with Germany, and a trade surplus with the US. Now: go to Germany. Who do they buy from? Well, lets start with the US. Germany imports a terrific amount of software and financial services from the US.
So: money goes US -> China -> Germany -> US ->
(Now, this isn't great if you work in the manufacturing sector in the US, and your job goes to China. But it is great if you're selling fund management products to the Germans.)
Here's another shocker. Between 1998 and 2005, the US lost 2m manufacturing jobs (while, it should be noted, manufacturing output rose). And those jobs went to China, right? No. China lost 15m jobs. Yes, you heard that right fiftenn million manufacturing jobs were lost. (The result, I should add, of moving from an inefficient state system to a marginally more efficient private system.)
Anyway: the point I make is a simple one. Focussing on bilateral trade surpluses or deficits is stupid. You have to look at the system. You also have to remember that those trade deficit/surplus numbers are vey bad at capturing so called "invisible" exports, such as financial services.
Cheers,
Robert
--- My dad's political betting
Also, didn't the story break a while back about China demanding that their computer suppliers "buy China" only? Funny thing is, I don't see them having a problem keeping up their commitmenmt.
Their chips would almost certainly be made in Taiwan, and probably assembled in mainland china. The only things that get made in the USA any more are flags and missiles.
I agree on your point on senseless real estate appreciation and have been making similar comments myself for years. Houses do not appreciate, they depreciate; the damn things fall apart. The land may, however, may appreciate in value if it is in a popular area (i.e. a city). I always thought that real estate appreciation was a scam concocted by real estate agents to offset their commissions. If every time you sold your house it sold for the same price that you bought it for, you would be out $10,000 in commissions. This would make you seriously look at why you are paying $10,000 for a (usually incompetent) agent. Fortunately, appraisals are done by real estate agents; often not the agent selling the house but a buddy. So, you jack up the appraisal of the house by at least the amount of the commissions so you don't pay too much attention to why you are paying five times as much for a real estate bimbo to sell your house as you would a surgeon for life saving surgery (the hospital will make up the difference, though). Did the seller do any remodelling or redecorating? Add the cost of that (plus some) to the appraisal as well. Never mind that they buyer will probably have to spend more money undoing the "improvements".
These real estate idiots are way behind on using technology and actual information to sell houses. A few now offer panoramic camera views. A large number of people who buy houses do so in a different city than the one they now live in and those that live in the same city have better things to do with their time than shlep around to houses that could have been ruled out with a real estate bimbo who insists on showing houses during customers working hours. Hire some architecture students to draw up a decent floorplan/3D model of the house, take pictures that are linked so you can select any view of each room from the floorplan, and photograph, catalog, and test all ethernet, phone, cable tv, and electrical outlets including which circuit breaker they connect to. Real estate agent incompetence and the constant stream of disinterested potential buyers traipsing through also severely impacts the lives of people who live in rental property which is being sold to a new landlord. Give people decent virtual tours at their convenience and then let them visit the house only if it is really one of their top candidates.
Besides making real estate agents among the top ten overpaid professions in America, housing is not affordable to those entering the housing market. When the baby boomers, who bought their first houses for realistic prices before appreciation ran amok under favorable loan terms, die off the bubble will have to burst.
Thanks for turning this into a partisan issue. Good job. The entire debate has been improved because of your ridiculous attempt to point out that another political party is just as pathetically corrupt as the one that is currently in power. I salute your blind political idolatry.
I hear all sorts of people complaining that we're not doing enough!
We go somewhere, people complain, we don't, they still complain.
World politics are messy, but sometimes I think that invasion is the only way to clean somewhere up. I would have taken out Iraq better than 10 years ago.
I figure that the only reason Bush used the WMD argument for going into Iraq was because that was what the Europeans would go for. I figure that we went in because it was a humanitarian nightmare, we had forces tied up just guarding the border, he was flaunting the sanctions, the oil for food program was a joke because of all the corruption, and Bush didn't want another Cuba hanging around for decades.
I'll say this: 99.9% of the starvation in the world today is political in nature. And yes, I consider most war political in nature.
I don't read AC A human right
Speaking as one from the country that's the third largest recipient of US investment (Ireland), I say "HAH HAH"!
Actually, our government may be bad at running our country in some ways, but they are sly devious conmen when it comes to business and attracting industry/multinationals to Ireland.
After all, despite the massive US interest - they account for something like 20-25% of businesses in Ireland - although that's a lot, that means we've a lot more companies that aren't from the US! It also means we've an insane amount of outside investment overall!
And our government continues the slyness by picking up on trends and getting the Chinese interested in setting up shop here (our entire local government for my area went over to China with representatives from practically every major business in the province, along with the Prime Minister! Largest trade delegation ever from Ireland). And we've had the Chinese premier in my little backwater city too.
At some point Ireland may have to examine her ethics, but hey, all these people have money, so... Bwah hah hah.
All the benefits of being in the EU without the sluggish economy and massive unemployment seriously rocks.
Come to Ireland while you can. Just don't go to the insanely expensive Dublin - one of the highest cost-of-living places there is. Go to Cork or Limerick. Galway's nice but doesn't have so much industry.
And due to unbalanced regional investment a two-hour car trip brings you to undisturbed quaint and beautiful real Irish countryside, with traditional lifestyles! (Yes, we nab a disproportional amount of tourists as well as all the industry. Nice one! Keep coming!)
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Yeah I was like, oh crap who is this DHS and how do they plan to buy America?
I'm sorry, but the characters you used in your post are the property of the Roman empire, though the poor grammar is American through and through!
that isnt the point I am advocating for socialistic poit of view on things. so as for the way of info delivery what does it matter?
Besides, if they do divest of their dollar holdings, where do the dollars go?
Wikileaks, no DNS
Linux is probably over 50% American.... by functionality, it's probably mostly written by "dirty foreigners", but the American contributors, following their "bigger is better" mentality contributed most of the bloat. :)
Okay, only teasing...
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Slashdot tends to follow the following: US: Old and busted. China: New hotness. You can blame media conglomerates that report only the worst, because, as we all know, "everything is great!" doesn't sell nearly as well as "you're all going to die... unless you keep watching beyond the next commercial break."
Maybe they will just embrace and extend the boundries of the US?
Well, it actually fits quite well: In a socialist economy, the party (there's basically only one) sets the rules of what has to be done and what may be done, and all others have no real say.
Now, in the description above replace "party" with "software provider", and remember that "there's basically only one" is called "monopoly" for companies, and think about what EULAs and DRM are all about, and you'll see that Microsoft is indeed quite socialistic.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Mod parent up.
There is another option;
(3): the world economy gradually loses its dependency on the US economy, then other countries pull out of the US, and the rest of the world is just fine.
The problem is, the way there is a knife's edge since it is stated US policy to prevent it from happening - if force by necessary. This has long been the practice, both under R & D admins, but has been made explicit in September 2002.
And the status quo they are prepared to maintain by force is an increasing economical assymmetry which, if not curbed, is bound to reach a point where a critical mass of third-world "terrorists" is sufficiently pissed off to cast away the yoke and start a revolution in the global village, aka WW3.
The outcome of said revolution would be difficult to predict. On the one hand the US spends about as much on weapons as the rest of the world combined, but on the other hand the previously "unalligned bloc" denotes a vast majority of people and an enormous geographical advantage in terms of natural resources.
But as economical contrasts grow, there must also be an inevitable increase in the resources and ruthlesness required to maintain it, and if at at any point the propaganda machine fails the US people could well put a stop to it.
BTW People bitch about Saudi capital constituting full percentage points of the US economy, but too often overlook the fact that virtually the entire US national debt is to China!
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
Take a 20-pound PC and add a decorative case, made of 40 pounds of American granite.
:-)
"At least 66% American content (by weight)"
Similarly any cellphone could be sold with a granite-cased battery... which would almost immediately be swapped out for a normal battery.
(Create an Account -> 503 Service Unavailable)
I salute YOUR blind idolatry.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
US Dollars spent buying imports (from China or elsewhere) bounce around on the international market until someone uses them to buy US exports. As the US imports more than it exports (trade deficit) more US Dollars enter the international currency market which means they dont get spent in the US anytime soon. This tends to de-value US Dollars on the international market.
This + a strong Euro is bad for the US economy. "Crossing the streams" bad.
Beauty is truly in the eye of the tiger
It's not partisan, both "parties" just aren't willing to cut them off, no matter how much we need to.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
What I've said here is not flamebait, It's true. I've taught English in China.
This is part of why the Chinese gov. wants foreign capital and why it's exploiting its farmers so badly, forcing them to sell at submarket prices.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Those politicians wishing to mandate the buying of American goods would probably be in favour of selling China these things, so it's not about having a lesser boycott to achieve worthy political ends.
Wikileaks, no DNS
It could force US companies or even more agile startups to look at what is not being produced in America, and start producing it here again.
America CAN DO. I don't know who the heck it is that keeps spewing this propaganda about how US businesses are any more incompetent than anyone else, but in case no one has noticed it's American intellectual property that keeps getting stolen by other nations. Cisco, anyone? Who would steal from us so much if our technology wasn't worth anything?
America needs to re-learn how to become self sufficient and to support itself again. Relying on foreign nations to produce our consumer goods, much less our Homeland Security goods, is a recipe for disaster, if our relations with that country go sour. Where will we get our goods then? We'll have to make it here, won't we?
And then there's the threat of foreign sabotage. How do we know who will get pissed off at us in the future? How do we know some of that foreign code for MicroSoft Windows NT/XP/2003 doesn't have intentional holes designed to execute an "order 66" on us? Responses to this post will invariably say such things won't ever happen and frankly that is as logical as sending a young woman, half naked, out into every dark alley in a big city and proudly declaring that she won't get sexually assaulted.
Nobody is saying producing products domestically will put an end to the threat of sabotage. MicroSoft knows that all too well after their own patch server got hijax0red by a virus writer. But foreign production of Homeland Security hardware/software adds a mountain of extra elements of vulnerability on top of the gaping security holes that we have domestically.
So, we don't have cell phones made in the USA, eh? Well, then we need to start making them here. It disgusts me to think there are American citizens who persist in saying our corporations are more incompetent than others, and that we can't do it. We can do it. Now instead of hating 'others' we hate ourselves. What the heck? Our companies are just as good as anyone else's, and by God our workers are, too. Let's put them back to work.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, I'm just aghast at the logic that says 'Buy American' is evil. It's not.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
>Granted, some of the reconstruction is being done by US firms (and why not? - they're the best in the world)
Because they're corrupt? Because there's an obvious conflict of interest in how they were selected to do the job (Halliburton). BTW, yes it's obvious to anyone with a brain it's not about the oil. People have gotten wise to that scam and there's plenty of other gravy to be had such as the reconstruction billions mentioned above.
>The invasion of Iraq was not about conquest and subjugation, but liberation and freedom from a tyrannical dictator
No, there's obviously more to it than that or we'd be kicking ass/getting our asses kicked in Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, China, Tibet, etc etc etc. It's about GW Bush's desire to bully the bully and thereby kick some ass without having (in his own mind) to look like the bully. Oh, and to avenge Saddam's plan to assassinate his daddy.
>- one whom *all* parties and governments in the western world (including the UN) believed to have large WMD stockpiles
Um, no, nobody believed he had large WMD stockpiles except a few rabid talk radio nutbags and their listeners. People who've lost the desire or capacity for independent thought.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
Like remember how things were in Berlin in the 20s and 30s? Restrictions on travel and dissent, paranoia, fascist takeovers. So the next question is, who's going to come in here in ten or twenty years and kick OUR asses and restore democracy and freedom?
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
There is a huge diference with Communisam-Socialisam and that of true Socialisam http://www.worldsocialism.org/ Educate Yourself first before you try to draw up comparisons to Communisam!!
The only brainwashed fuck here is you.
Those socialists who advocated destroying private property rights in production, such as yourself, sure thought places like the USSR, Cambodia, Cuba and North Korea represented the the form of socialism they intended, as they supported those regimes, repeated their lies, spread their propaganda, worshiped their dictators, and rationalized and denied their crimes.
Except for the little fact that if you don't buy Microsoft, you and your family won't be sent off to gulags or tortured and murdered.
Get an education.
Because they're corrupt?
Like the oil for food Europeons were any better?
had such as the reconstruction billions mentioned above
the process might not be 100% efficient, but at least there's reconstruction going on.
nobody believed he had large WMD stockpiles
To be honest, neither did I, I figured he had small stockpiles, or at least the capability to make them. I also figure he destroyed or moved out of country what he had during the prelude to the invasion.
I don't read AC A human right
Buy American ?
Isn't this against letting the "market" find the optimum solution ?
Now I finally understand why the Republican Color is "Red", the French Communist Party has long be favoring "Buy French" policies.
So I guess Republicans are US style communist ? or did I miss something ?
Of course limiting this "Buy American" to the Homeland Security Department is a way to say "the market is allright, only for "security" against these "pesky terrorrrist" you need to be sure of what you buy !!
Of course buying 50% american helps, for instance you can buy a VPN server with a Big Metallic box made in the USA, and a piece of crypto software made in Pakistan.
So you will be perfectly protected against axe wielding terrorrist thanks to the nice iron, you only have to worry about the ethics of underpaid and well indoctrinated programmers in a country that has not many reasons to be thankful to the US.
So 100% "could" possibly make sens if you would have a real interest in security. Anything bellow is useless and you need other processes to manage it.
What it WILL acheive is of course that the US tax payer will have to pay more for the DHS in order to compensate for the price hike protectionist policies generate (hey it cost money to put a glizy new stiker on a taiwaneese box to make it "proudly american").
To generate the extra cash the US governement will have to find yet another way to squeeze more money out of third world countries, wich of course will have a positive effect on the "necessity" of the department of homeland security.
So time to buy "defence stocks".
Erm, that didn't work out so well when you cut off the Soviet Union's grain, now did it? But yes, the US is a large supplier of food. They were good enough to send some lovely unapproved-for-human-consumption GM grain the EU's way a while back. "Oh, sorry, we got confused between Strain 10 and 11"
Me (Blog)
I know all of that.. I apologize, I misunderstood what you were origionally saying. When I first read your post it sounded like you thought dollars magically turned into yuan which of course isn't the case at all- my point.
Indeed, a lot of dollars float around and never return. In theory good deal for us because it basically amounts to an interest free loan from the world. So long as there isn't a crash in the value of the dollar as you allude to.
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.