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Laptops Outsell Desktops
wintermute1974 writes "According to a new report by Current Analysis, laptops have overtaken sales of desktops for the first time in computing, ever. Figures are for the U.S. market, but presumably this is part of a world-wide trend." From the article: "Notebook prices fell 17 percent during the past year while desktop prices dipped only 4 percent. Some of the features common in most notebooks are longer-lasting batteries, CD burners and wireless capability."
Well, IMHO, this was bound to happen. With those good "desktop replacement" laptops, who wouldn't want to?
They overtook desktops in revenue in 2003.
How many businesses ONLY purchase laptops and servers now?
Everybody I know buying computers has been going for laptops for the last couple of years.
when everything is working perfectly.. BREAK SOMETHING before something else FUCKS up!
Of course, as reported on engadget.. first time ever.. since 2003R F1.html?ex=1118030400&en=cb60405e864fa27a&ei=5070
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/03/technology/03TB
Pretty much as expected. I work for a uni helpdesk, and the desktop/laptop ratio dropped below 1 long ago. Which is nice, since I don't have to help deliver desktops on opening day any more :D
My tower has a handle on it. And it weighs in at an incredibly portable 42 pounds.
"Some of the features common in most notebooks are longer-lasting batteries, CD burners and wireless capability"
:) haha
No one who visits slashdot would know that!
Sorry, I just found it funny.
Can your karma go above being Excellent?
I remember Steve Jobs Macworld keynote in January 2003 where he claimed that 03 would be "the year of the laptop".r s/2
http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-12302003.a
Maybe he was just a couple of years early?
well, not really
a lot of people are on the move now a days. i like being able to take my laptop anywhere at any time and do whatever i need to do. transfering files between it and a desktop would be a pain, so this is my only machine
add the wireless revolution and you can see why even more. plus, computing power now adays really isn't distinguishable, 2.0ghz compared to a 3.0ghz really doesn't matter for most people, you can get hte 2.0 for nothing. why get a desktop you can't move when you can have a laptop you can use anywhere around the casa?
it was bound to happen
rumor that Apple will be switching to Intel. I imagine Steve Jobs has seen the writing on the wall and sees that Apple's mobile efforts don't have much future if they stick with IBM. Apple continues to sell notebooks like hotcakes despite having all their tech be a generation or two behind PCs.
This was bound to happen, people are given technology, the technology becomes mobile and more people want to take it with them. Look at the cell phone.
Some of the features common in most notebooks are longer-lasting batteries, CD burners and wireless capability.
Yeah. They left out the inability to easily upgrade components. In the last 10 years i have owned +/- 6 computers. One was a laptop that I purchased new. The others were all custom rigs that got upgraded expansion cards, peripherals, memory, etc. when needed. Thus they didn't show up as desktop sales. I am willing to bet that as building machines from components has gotten easier, lots more people have been doing it to get more bang for the buck.
Thing is, with a laptop, upgrading the monitor is impossible and upgrading pretty much anything else is a royal pain and/or too expensive. Thus, laptop users can't take advantage of individual components on the same scale as desktop owners.
my current laptop is a toshiba satelite a75 series. circa end of 2004 batery life: 2 hours on "long life" mode. my very first laptop was a toshiba t-1000 circa 1980-something(late 80's) battery life: hours and hours... how is that a longer life?
now if only they could make it so the damn things don't scorch whatever you sit them on. my lappy is so hot i can't leave it on my lap and i can feel the heat through the bottom of my desk. and the fans are loud enough that i can hear them from another room. give me a tower that i can play w/ any day.
The question that interests me is: are laptops becoming any more durable? One of my main reasons that I bought an eMac instead of an iBook is that the eMac is probably Apple's most durable computer. And I know that laptops tend to be much more prone to failure.
It wasn't so long ago that if you bought a laptop, you could pretty much count on some kind of major failure within three years. I'm wondering if any good research has been done to show whether laptops are closing the gap with desktops in terms of reliability. If they are, I'm pretty sure my next computer will be a laptop.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
I would guess that a significant amount of this is due to the increasing number of colleges (and even some highschools) that require students to have laptops.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
no, pdas are too small to be of any use, ive had plenty of them to know.
The key features that were holding people back was the hard time burning CDs, watching DVDs, or playing games was on machines that were typically behind the affordable desktop technology by a year or two. Now that those key features are pretty much standard in a sub $1000 laptop, more people are buying them, and considering the built in wireless, flat screen monitor, and portability with the battery, a bonus worth the extra money over a deskopt system with comparable features.
After all, you can use a laptop as a desktop for not much extra money for an external keyboard and mouse, but it's not possible to use a desktop on the road or in the plane.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I just replaced my desktop with a laptop. Why bother with a bulky desktop when I can get a fast, luggable laptop for cheap? With the proliferation of wireless access points, I can go just about anywhere and get the internet. There's not much point in having a desktop at home when I'm not there more than half of the time.
By the way, the Compaq R4000 series is a wicked deal if you're looking for a desktop replacement.
The pepper pad looks pretty neat, but I guess it's not quite small enough to be considered a PDA....
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
The standard loadout the last place I worked was a Dell 2.4 GhZ laptop with a gig of RAM and a CD burner. The only problem with the system was if you ran it at full speed with it in your lap, you'd end up cooking your weenie, even with the fans on full.
It seems like not many companies are deploying wireless, though, so you still end up with travelling employees roaming the halls like undead zombies, looking for ethernet and power ports to plug in to.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Some of the features common in most desktops are the lack of need for a battery, cd burners that don't heat up to roughly the same temperature as the surface of the sun, and the ability to add wireless capability later if you want it.
sig not ready: (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail.
I purchased a Dell SmartStep 200N about 4 yrs ago when Dell just released them. They were the first to put a desktop chip inside a laptop. Back then a 2.0 Ghz laptop was pretty much comparable to Desktop computers. My professors used to get pretty impressed when my laptop used to be able to compile code faster then their 1 or 2 yr old desktop computers.
They also provide the easiest setup at LAN gaming parties.
Ever since I purchased my laptop, i've pretty much been using it as my primary computer. My only complain is that I have a problem with it overheating easily; so now I put a fan next to it when I work.
My next laptop purchase will probarbly be in another 4 or 5 yrs, since my current one can do everything I need it to do (except play Doom III).
Anyone have any details on intels version of the macMini?
I've been an exclusive laptop user for the last 8 years and I don't see myself going back to a fixed desk.
you are forgetting, sir, that only with a laptop can you ensure your entire porn surfing collection and device are with you at all times. especially handy if you have a snoopy female type around.
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
I would bet this is due to the significant number of LCD's being produced for both desktops and laptops (making prices similar and overall laptop prices cheaper).
Isn't that what used to keep laptop prices sky-high?
This is for "electronics retailers" which I assume means Best Buy and Circuit City. I wouldn't worry* about being ripped off if you get your PC from them rather than rolling your own. But what I really think this means is that A)laptops are hard (impossible?) to assemble yourself from off the shelf/internet ordered components while it is easy (almost trivial to anyone familiar with computer hardware) to make a desktop.
(* The reason not to worry about it is because you can allready assume that you are getting ripped off.)
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
I just bought my second laptop and at this very moment I only have two computers at home: a VAIO laptop and a new DELL laptop, even though I used to own a few desktops and built a few myself. Now I live in an appartment and don't have that much space and I have to bring my own computer to work (that's why I went for a nice new DELL with 15.4" wide screen 1900x1200 with 2GB RAM, 2.13GHz Centrino, 100GB HD, DVD RW/CD RW in a bay that is hotpluggable and a spare battery that can be put into the same bay while the laptop is running giving me another 2-3 hours. Wireless internet as well as Cat5 and a modem (just in case.)
I use it for work and for my own programming projects, I don't play games so it's perfect.
You can't handle the truth.
I don't care. My custom built desktop has more capabilities than a laptop anywhere close to the same price. If you want a less capable, but light and portable laptop, that's all well and good, but screw the rip off "desktop replacement" laptops.
Of course, I did happen to notice this site, Coboc. Basically, DIY laptops. Pretty damn tempting...
My primary machine became a laptop 7-8 years ago. I used to use one while traveling and a desktop while at home/work, but syncing things up between the two was a pain in the butt. Too many times I didn't have what I'd worked on with the other machine available on the machine I was on.
While laptops still lag in speed, they hit "good enough" for most applications a while ago. The biggest lag now is really in disk size, you have to go external for serious space. But "most" people can live with a measly 100GB in the laptop and hook up an external or network drive for the other times.
Even if you never flip up the screen at home and use external keyboard/monitor/mouse, you bring your entire work environment with you when on the road.
And if you only use them on your work desk or home desk, the battery is handy as a built-in UPS.
they just called them iMacs.
but seriously, it shouldn't surprise Mac lovers that this is now the case. Apple made a brand on a market that never wanted to upgrade a componet or otherwise "deal with" their computers. I know there are serious Mac users out there, so please don't get me wrong. But when you crack open my old Blueberry iMac, Lo and Behold! Its a Laptop inside. The same technology that makes the Mini viable, is what has been pushing laptops into the forefront.
At my office, the first question we ask new employees is "laptop or desktop?". Only one person took the desktop and thats because we already had it set up, she really didn't care, and we needed to get rid of it. The rest of us can work at the coffeeshop or park, receiving calls via cel phone and email updates from the office. I really don't understand why you would want a desktop at this point.
So that your computer goes with you but when you need the space and larger screen etc you have it. With wireless you don't even have to mess around with hooking up a crap load of cables. Wireless mice and Keyboards already exist and it wouldn't take that much to create a wireless display system.
I really wonder if wireless interface systems could get ubiquitous enough that you could more or less forgoe the full key board and mouse on the laptop entirely and just make a mobile processing memory unit say the size of a cell phone. Wirelesss interface stations would be all over the place and you could browse the systems in range and log onto yours.
One idea I like about that is being able to test drive systems at a store before you buy it. Wonder if that new monitor has fast enough refresh ? Enough resolution ? Just attach it to the system on your hip and run a favorit movie/game etc... How about the sound quality of those speakers ? How about wondering if that new system will do what you want ? Access files on your current system while demoing a new unit with similar periphials you have at home. Have an automatic interface with your cars computer... no more dealer visits for codes or wondering what tripped the 'check engine' light.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.
But this is not just a "desktop replacement" trend. Sure, you can emulate nearly every function on a laptop that you could get in a desktop, but that was true back when too. Sure, the price has gone down, but what's really changed?
I don't think the wireless explosion is getting nearly enough credit here. Now your truly portable PC can take advantage of the most influential and pervasive phenomenon of the 21st century anywhere and everywhere. Coffee shops. Parks. The back yard. The laptops utility has been magnified 100 fold just by the wireless networking trend alone. It's so much more than a portable document holder now. You now have access to real time information anywhere, an unparalleled knowledge base at your fingertips on the go, keep in contact with people friends, family and partners instantly, etc etc etc. Wireless LAN? Standard equipment on nearly every machine now.
I have no doubt the price drop has helped, but the utility and popularity of the laptop has absolutely exploded because of the wireless revolution that is still evolving at this very moment.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
The survey doesn't look like it takes DIY-computers into consideration. You can't build laptops like you can a desktop.
Just a thought I had.
And now I have to write some text here because some stupid 'tard decided to crapflood slashdot in the dim dark past.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
You should never date a woman who objects to your porn collection. Hell, my wife's collection is almost as big as my own. Many an evening of incredible sex has started out with her sitting on my lap surfing porn together.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
For years, I wouldn't even consider buying a laptop. Due to the price, the fact that they couldn't compare to desktops (performance and screen size/resolution), etc. But, lately, there have been a number of advancements in the laptop market that give you a comparable computer from a laptop (granted, the laptop will weigh a lot more if you're trying to get a full desktop comparable laptop) but, the price is still a factor. In the past, my job has never had anything to do with computers (insurance, chemical labs, etc.) but now I have a programming job that I work from home as well as the office. The most annoying thing is having everything set up just the way you want it at work, then switching to a completely different set up at home. This is the reason why I'm looking into buying a laptop. I spend a lot of time at my bosses house and while I'm there, I can't really get anything done, so I pretty much waste 2-3 hours when I could be getting more work done (that's why the company is also considering chipping in on the cost of the laptop). That leads to the largest benefit that a laptop can provide, portability. It's convenient to be able to take your computer with you when you need to travel, etc.
I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The biggest reason I would continue buying desktops is to play games (since I work all the time, I rarely do). Then again, it's also nice to be able to upgrade your system piece by piece but, you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Are you telling me that you don't see the connection between government and laughing at people? - Interviewer
One thing that is adding to the number for laptops is students. As a student in Seattle, I notice that many students own laptops(perhaps 50/50) if not more compared to desktops. And since there is a wireless access point everywhere on campus and in many places around campus, it is conductive to laptop use.
University of Washington
Student
Apple has always been an innovator, but it has never lead the pack because it simply hasn't had those many laptop/notebook models. The advances in laptop technology have been pushed by the demand in PC laptops from Compaq, Dell, HP and more importantly, IBM. IBM has been probably the more innovating integrator of the lot. Apple is a distant catch-up, regardless of their good industrial design capabilities. The ability to have a hard drive the size of a pack of matches, wireless networking or power-saving processors does not come to us courtesy of your "friends at Apple", it comes from the Toshibas, VIAs and Intels of the world being pushed by PC makers with insane consumer-level demand. You honestly don't think Apple makes their own Firewire controllers, eh?
Thanks for the laugh though.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
While these sort of tax distortions continue laptops market shares are going to keep growing and growing.
1. Low-end desktops suck so bad, I wouldn't buy one if someone points a gun to my head. Just go to Circuit City or Best Buy and look at them. Do you want to buy this crap?
2. I'm writing this lying on the couch. There's no going back to desktop once you go completely wireless. The only desktop I have is iMac G5, but that's only because I need a good display for digital photography, and iMac display is top-notch. If Apple puts decent panels into the next crop of their laptops, this iMac may go to ebay.
Why replace what I am happy with?
On the other hand a laptop is more prone to needing replacement due to moving it around all the time (may break) and the batteries are expensive to replace (might as well replace the whole thing while I'm at it..).
Plus laptops are still experiencing significant performance increases and bigger screens while desktops have more or less leveled off in performance - and desktop monitors are a separate unit to replace.
A portable device will always have a lower time of service than a desktop that sits under your desk and is not subject to abuse - one has guaranteed continued sales while the other has market saturation...
Mild correction... I described what Blue Tooth is capable. Bit of a ways from making it actually happen though.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.
Developing naitons? Seriously there is no way they will buy notebook computers right away. The desktop enviroment will rise again as people in these places start word processing.
RTFA again for the best results.
Hmm... two Ethernet cards and a big wad o' solder?
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
Will this mean higher prices for desktop users? I hope not. I for one HATE with a passion laptops. There great for surfing the web and chatting on aim but for real work I need a desktop. I'm personally much more productive on a larger screen, full sized keyboard, and a comfortable external mouse.
:( :)
:)
I used to lug around A DESKTOP TOWER in order to do my work several years ago. Horrifically inconvenient but a necessary evil.
Getting (and using) a laptop took some getting used to but now I wouldn't use a desktop unless I absolutely have to. My laptop allow me to work anywhere there is an electrical outlet, a chair and a desk. I heard that the laptop I have was one of the first ones to 'cram' desktop computing power in a laptop-sized package--kudos the the laptop manufactuer! (They are Japanese and they put out music and anime 'on the side'. I won't identify them lest I be branded a 'corporate shill' but I will say their laptops are built to last! My boss dropped his laptop several times with the last time borking the LCD display for good. Guess what? The HD was fine throughout all the unintentional abuse and is now working inside a laptop made by a large U.S. computer/business machine firm that shall remain nameless to avoid me being branded a 'corporate shill'.
And to the smart asses who say you can hook all these up to a notebook, yeah but why?
I did that at first then quit. I only hook up assorted data storage devices to my laptop via USB nowadays as these are external peripherals that matter the most to me.
I like my laptop and am glad I was able to get one to use it.
Laptops truly make computing complete and convenient - Ahhhh!
Some of the features common in most notebooks are longer-lasting batteries, CD burners and wireless capability
And some of them are even portable!
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
In Australia you can tax deduct 100% of the cost of a laptop in the first year. you can onlydeduct 33% of a desktop in the first year.
As such there is a huge incentive to buy laptops rather than desktops.
lounge around on the blue couch
This just isn't true for laptops. As long as laptops suck because they are underpowered, have a short battery life, have bad screens, and those things can't be easily upgraded, people will keep buying new laptops more often than they replace their desktops. Add to this wi-fi tech in places like college campuses, the portability of laptops is actually useful where it just wasn't before (how many people do you know that used to leave their laptops on the desk over 99% of the time).
I think we are going to see laptops continue to ramp up for a bit as they become useful for a larger number of people, but once the bugs get ironed out people will slow down their upgrade cycle much like what is going on with desktops now.
I like my PDAs. I find that using my desktop as the central repository for my files, and then remoting into it at need from my wireless enabled PDA to be a better solution than carting around my data in an easily stolen and cumbersome form. In the event that my PDA is stolen I am looking at a lower replacement cost and minimal data loss. PDAs do what most people need them to do when they are away from thier main system, Check email, read slashdot, write documents, play emulated NES games. Integrate wireless, and the capabilty to easily transfer information by secure USB ala pen drives {read: no clunky drivers and management apps to install} that would be killer, but right now no one seems to get it.
I actually use both. I have a desktop for doing heavy lifting and storage. It has a huge monitor, gobs of HD, and pretty much everything else. I use the laptop is an accessory, not a replacement. So I only use sub 3lbs units. Great for browsing internet and email in bed or on the go. I'm on it more than my desktop. I'm probably in the minority in this style of use, basically using laptop as a big pda. I can see more ppl computing this way in the future though.
Even if this is in fact the case, and not a result of bad stats, I'm not surprised. Why?
College students. College goers everywhere are convinced they need a laptop for school for various reasons (I'll take notes with it..my desk is small..etc etc) when really what they need is a mini tower with an LCD monitor to accomplish the same or better end. Plenty of colleges require laptops (Which IMHO is so much more a status thing than anything productivity oriented) these days which is no doubt driving up the sales rates as well.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Am I the only one who dreadfully hates touchpads and prefers touchpoints (eraser points, or whatever else you want to call them)?
IBM still uses the touchpoints, but they are really expensive. I really liked Dell laptops, until they went el-cheapo a year or two ago and removed the old legacy ports and the touchpoints at the same time. A few laptops, especially those angled at the business market, still have touchpoints, but they are few, more expensive, and lack the features that I desire.
no, pdas are too small to be of any use
:)
I wouldn't say size is the problem.. You could always hook an external monitor through a proprietary interface, and keyboard/mouse through bluetooth. Moreover, solid-state data-storeing is about to hit it's prime (with 16Gig IDE drives this fall). The problem is CPU horse-power.. The ARM CPU is simply too wimpy to handle instensive load.. At least, not without killing the battery in short order. The ARM is a bueatiful architecture for power desipation, and not much else.
I've seen some crazy ideas to compromise between horse-power and power dessipation.. For example, lowering the voltage until you get a 1% error rate in your computation, then provide extra hardware/software to detect/correct these errors in a manner transparent to the application. Or take advantage of multi-processing techniques to identify applications which can be periodically put to sleep to reduce average power consumption. Or cache banks which go into sleep modes when not in use, but require longer access time when first hit.
Transmetta had some great ideas too; but notice this involved trying to migrate a prolific architecture into an optimized architecture... These days, if you've got a hand-held, you can afford recompiling all your apps to the optimized platform. Of course, proliferating Java on these hand-helds isn't exactly helping in the performance market.
I still think in 10 years the CPU will be a wrist-watch, and IO will be some external media.. The consolidation in the cell phone market took longer than I expected.. Now we have GPS, MP3, MS office, cell, SD-memory, external-keyboard-capability all in one device. But as said, horsepower is lacking... I'm ignoring, of course the PSP, but consider that too close to a laptop to really count as a hand-held. (That's a dual-hand-held.
-Michael
Yeah. They left out the inability to easily upgrade components. In the last 10 years i have owned +/- 6 computers. One was a laptop that I purchased new. The others were all custom rigs that got upgraded expansion cards, peripherals, memory, etc. when needed.
In other words, no way for users to screw up a laptop (Ok, memory).
No wonder the sales are outpacing desktops... it either works or it doesn't. No sqabbling between card and MB vendors, it's one point of contact for failures!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
if only laptop keyboards weren't ergonomically optimized for twelve-year old Japanese midgets.
Seriously, we can jam a 17" monster screen on to these things, how come we can't get a larger, less mushy keyboard under it??
I've been forced to get a laptop because I'm in college, too far away from home to drive my desktop along with me. That was the greatest loss I've had when going to college. Sure, wireless is nice, but I still need to lug around the power adapter! Oh, and that stupid small 15" screen SUCKS, dust gets all over it, and blowing it only adds it up in the corners where it won't get removed. Then there's the whole ergonomics issue: even with an external keyboard I'm not comfortable: the laptop takes up TOO MUCH SPACE on the desk. Give me a flat panel screen and I'll have plenty! A foot's worth of depth! And the hard drive performance drives me up the wall, it's so slow even a pentium pro starts up faster. And it's an athlon 2400+ for crying out loud! And then graphics chipset. Took me 6 months of hardcore tweaking, testing and whatnot to get even basic DRI to work. Performance is still less than that of an original radeon, and it sucks memory off my RAM. Seriously, laptops are great for some uses, but not for mine. And I'm not a gamer, I just like to have a machine where I can compile and use blender. Laptops are the worst kind of hardware for that, they overheat like hell. Had to get a cooling pad for mine. The heat comes not from the CPU, but from the HDD and the RAM! So the fan is running loud like a drumroll, and it's still heating! Then there's the whole storage issue. 30GB for someone who runs gentoo and stores lots of graphics files is USELESS! All of my big files are on my firewire HDD, because the thing only has usb 1.1! I spent $1200 on an athlon xp 1600 in 2001, and that hardware runs still today! Not only that, but it's faster and better to use, because I've been able to switch a few things around to make it quieter and cooler. Now go and try to make a laptop quiet. It's IMPOSSIBLE, hard drives make noise, and the cd-drive is as loud as a fortissimo part in an opera! Give me parts for a desktop anytime, I'm sick of this machine, as great as it is to take notes in class on it, or browsing the web to find references to what my professor's talking about.
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
And of course I got chili on my Powerbook's keyboard typing that.
Now this is flamebait.
***
Sounds like my girlfriend.
I also have to say that it's fun sitting in a coffee shop with her and commenting on the girls who go past.
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
When my son turned 12 I bought him a box of parts and we put together his first pc. 3 years later we've upgraded virtually every part and I don't mind at all because he now has a machine that is customized to the interests he has developed.(3D drawing and gaming, natch)So far ,we just plan on spending X$ each year to keep him current.
When my daughter turned 12, she wanted a laptop. We did not opt for the extended warantee and it has been in for repairs twice, once at Compaq's expence, once at ours. The cost has been about the same but she is stuck with the same RAM, the same monitor,(the boy is up to a 22",she is still and forever will be 15"),the same chip,same video card. It will never get better for her until I find the way to upgrade for less than $1500.If I can't fix it i don't want it.My own laptop is essential but it's my sweet box next to my right foot that gets USED!
sadly for most of us, your wife is not normal (in the sense of usual). Romance novels, "chick flicks" and soap operas are the equivalent of porn for most women, not the visually oriented erotic stuff. But try to get most of them to have such an open mind toward "our" stuff, doesn't work.
If Nokia properly markets their new 770, or Archos with their AV series, it'll be all that's needed. Laptops were originally marketed as something you used when you were away from your desktop.
Now we've got a whole new generation of PMP/PDAs that are capable of what laptops were just a couple of years ago, with all the above mentioned stuff AND office apps. Just attach a USB keyboard and you're good to go.
It's possible to upgrade a desktop so all of the new motherboard/CPU combos that people bought didn't get counted?
For example, I upgraded my machine with a new MB and an Athlon XP 2800+, while my GF did buy a new laptop. In one house, that's two new machine, but only one new sale.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
as personal computing technology gets smaller and more powerful at the same time, wouldn't it be the eventual goal of any personal comuting venture to be able to produce a product that could accomplish all that a desktop computer while being as smalll and portable as possible?
if this trend continues, more will be computerized and it will be done more cheaply. awesome!
That's why laptops have a video port, a mouse port and external keyboard port. Just get a laptop and use it as a desktop.
...and that is all I have to say about that.
http://jessta.id.au
I'm still waiting for a PDA that when plugged into a docking station, will become a full-fledged PC.
Someone MUST have done it right. Come on, it's 2005.
What about a pocket PC?
Or a very small laptop, like the old libretto?
Pretty Pictures!
I'm personally much more productive on a larger screen, full sized keyboard, and a comfortable external mouse.
And to the smart asses who say you can hook all these up to a notebook, yeah but why?
There are plenty of widescreen 17" notebooks out there with a full size keyboard, 3GHz+ Pentium 4 or equivalent Athlon 64, and 1GB of RAM. All you're really missing is the external mouse, which is as simple as popping a wireless mouse adapter that's the size of a USB flash drive into the USB port on the side.
This isn't like the old days when the biggest laptop you could find was a 15" and getting yourself set up at a coffee shop meant plugging in a telephone wire, a power cable, and a wired mouse. Lots of laptops have decent battery life, built-in wifi, and a USB port on the side for a wireless mouse.
They are the lonely ones stuck off by a power supply in the airport, they are too poor to hide their dislike for human companionship and too cheap to have a beast of a computer at home.
Right, because the people at the airport without laptops are regular chatter-bugs with the total strangers who surround them, and not pretending to re-read the same month-old issue of Newsweek for the third time in a row while nursing a Long Island Iced Tea which cost them eight bucks at the airport bar.
Sorry, but you are full of shit.
The biggest problem with using a laptop in public is not loneliness. It's all the dumbass people who think your use of it is an invitation to talk about computer technology when you would much rather just be doing whatever it was you were using the laptop for in the first place.
(Which is why phase-cancelling headphones are every bit as essential as a laptop when traveling. First of all, it reduces ambient noise slightly, but more importantly, nothing says "fuck off and leave me alone" quite like a good pair of headphones and an LCD screen to bury yourself in.)
....at least for a while. these guys sell p4s that go up to 3.8 mhz now, and you can get intel x86-64 up to 3.6 mhz now. Not only that, but the sagers now offer upgradeable video card slots.
I don't need ultramobile. I need something that I can put on a table in the living room, or dining room, or take it somewhere else with a table and an outlet. I'm not one of the guys in the commercials sitting in the park with my pup surfing the web
Touchpoints make so much more sense because they are embedded in the keyboard. You don't have to move your fingers a great distance to use the mouse. The other big advantage is the continuous motion of a touchpoint compared to moving your thumb multiple times on a trackpad to navigate through a long distance. A semi-experienced touchpoint user can out mouse an experienced touchpad user without expending much effort.
While touchpoints are the most efficient design, it comes with a price. It takes a bit of time to get comfortable using a touchpoint. Novice computer users can be thrown off by it and it doesn't have the "gee wiz" appearance and marketability of a touchpad.
A friend of mine who works at Future Shop told me that one of the only things she doesnt get discounts on as an employee are laptops. Why? Because Futureshop sells them at the same price they get them for. They don't make a profit on them. They're really pushing everyone to go mobile..
That 'CD burner' had better be a DVD rewriter or I'm not interested!
AT&ROFLMAO
Normaly, how long do your batteries last on your desktops ;) ? I sometimes feel like comparing laptops and desktops is like comparing apples and oranges (or Apples and PCs) ! I can't live without my PowerBook, but when I'm at home... the desktop is a nice change (especially for a bigger screen).
http://www.talie.ca/
Where can I buy a 20" powerbook? :0)
Seriously, though. It's not the same, and the difference is pretty dramatic. Panels in Apple desktops are MUCH better.
http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/VGN-U50/
Of course it is not a fully fledged PC of 2005 but it beats a lot of the things you could buy, let's say, five years ago.
I have to tell, none of my friends, relatives, close or distant acquaintances have ever bought a "desktop" computer that I know of. I also always build my own PCs, from parts I want. Those who can't or won't build, ask others who can and will to make it for them. I know that this is absolutely not the general case since awful lot of people and - most of all - companies buy their machines as a whole, and that's what the article's numbers come from. I own PCs for about 10 years now, and not one of them was bought prebuilt. I also have stinking bad stories with prebuilt PCs which are purchased @ work, quite a few, which also made me promise to myself not to ever buy them.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I use a PowerBook 12" 1.33GHz, and it is powerful enough for my uses that I don't need a desktop. I still get anywhere from 3.5hrs to 5hrs of battery life, depending on what I'm doing (3.5hrs w/ processor set on "Highest", screen dimmed, using GarageBand and 5+hrs when just typing w/ processor on "Reduced"). When I am at home, I just kind of think of it as a really long lasting UPS.
of course, I've never been in a power outage, so YMMV with the usefulness of such a "feature".
This post is slightly tongue-in-cheek, but for those using a laptop as a desktop replacement, it can be a valuable feature.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
They both definately have their uses, but laptops suck for home/office duties. To much maintenance. Damaged/stolen to easily. To slow for the price. The big word, 'PROPRIETARY' = blah. Worst of all they are 'mainstream'. They are mainstream because they are in 'fashion'. Being in fashion means your 87% (is that right by IQ figures?) likely to have an IQ less than 110. Most people with laptops just like to show off anyways. Time 4 bed, l8r
Size doesn't matter; it's all in how you use it.
Now THAT's a lap-top I'd pay for ;)
Why do we need laptops and Bluetooth just to figure out what the heck is wrong with a car these days? On my '85 Camaro, I could do it with a paperclip and a Chiltons manual...
[Trojan.]
Laptops are still too slow compared to desktops, especially the hard drives. Laptop drives are not only slower, but you cannot get the same large sizes and the prices are far higher. Then there is the issue of graphics cards. Laptops generall have poorer graphics cards with lower memory. You can put together a far cheaper desktop with good components than you can get in a laptop. Most of the lower end laptops have crappy video with shared memory; they get too hot and have at most 3 hours of battery time. Oh and then there is the problem with the tiny screens. As a programmer, I cannot look at any screen smaller than 17" for a long time. Also, most of those lower end laptops only go to 1024x768 (I need at least 1152x864). These limitations may be OK for Joe User, but I don't think more tech savvy people or especially geeks could put up with them.
Too slow? My AMD 3000+ is not too slow, neither have any of my 1GHz+ machines been.
Laptop disks are smaller yes, I got 80GB 5400rpm in this one. While it is nothing compared to the 500GB I have in my desktop, it is completely sufficient for 99% of the people out there. The average person does not even have something like 10GB apps, 20GB games, 20GB music, 20MB movies and 10GB to spare. With 512MB RAM most people won't need to swap and never really notice the difference. What most people do (chat, surf, music, movies, simple games) aren't IO bound. If you are a pack rat such as you and me, perhaps. The rest, no.
Laptops have graphics cards that are just fine for everything but FPS games. Many people are non-gamers, even more are non-FPS gamers. Chat, surf, play mp3 and avis is enough for many people. Today, almost everyone needs to be on the net. Even in my own family I'm outnumbered two to one by my parents who certainly would do fine.
Laptops are slightly more pricy, but including the cost of an LCD, not impressingly so. I did try to put together a cheap new desktop recently, making it a laptop would add maybe 50% to the cost, no more. For the flexibility of a laptop, that isn't much. It used to be several hundred percent.
If your laptop gets too hot, it is malfunctioning or is a desktop in drag. Typical laptops don't get that hot, because there's more than enough power anyway. It has three hours of battery life versus none, what's your point?
As for size and resolution, that is mainly decided by the laptop size as the screen can not get bigger than the machine. I've used a 12.1" 1024x768 and 15.4" 1280x800 screen, and it is whatever works for you. Seriously, people used to get work done in resolutions far less than that in the early days, it is mostly psychological. By the way, the 15.4" screen is only a inch narrower than my 19" CRT, and is excellent for watching 16:9 movies, better than a 17" CRT. Again, if you are a non-gamer.
Nobody pretends a laptop is everything a desktop could be. But for the average user, I have no problem recommending a good laptop. If you a) need lots of HDD space, b) need lots of screen real estate, c) need fps gaming, laptops aren't for you (or at least not excellent for you). If you're in the huge "other" segment, go for it.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Not all female types are wives. Slashdotters have mothers you know
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
It's a political decision. The diagnostic tools are installed in part to make it easier to get by with less knowledgeable mechanics, and partly to drive out the mom-and-pop mechanic with prohibitive costs of entry to the market. You need a specific diagnostic device for each brand of car.
A lot of corporate buyers buy laptops because they're like Macs, only compatible.
"... and more and more now there are all kinds of electronic goodies available" -- Pink Floyd 1972
Check out these
% 20Dell%20Wireless.htm
c net
e _top_100_gad_1.html
http://www.notesys.com/Copies/CNET%207Sep00%20IBM
Dell and IBM were duking it out for for honors of first Windows laptop with wireless a year after Apple had already offered it.
I'm not sure whether Apple make their own firewire controllers but they DID invent the technology:
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-271986.html?legacy=
Finally it is clear to people who have been around for a while that Apple created the template from which almost all laptops are cut today. Check out this article that names the Powerbook 100 as the top gadget of all time.
http://www.mobilemagazine.com/archives/2005/03/th
Admittedly blind fanboyism is not very informative but neither is denying credit where it is due.
I think it's got a lot to do with the price of LCD panels coming down. The LCD was typically the most expensive part of the laptop; now that desktops are commonly sold with LCDs, the single most price sensitive component has become a non-issue.
For most (non-gamer) users, the notebook offers everything the desktop does and more, and today you can opt for the notebook for a trivial price increment.
Basically, nobody buys a desktop PC. The one you bought in 2003 is still running just fine. And you cannot think of an upgrade for it, since you don't play a lot of games.
So all that money has to go somewhere. And then you notice that you can get a laptop for about the price of a desktop, you figure, what the heck, why not buy a laptop.
Because face it, there's not much interesting new stuff. The faster videocards and newer CPUs are great for the hardcore gamerz out there. But for development, digital photography, webbrowsing and so on, the old one is still just fine.
Musicians don't die. They just decompose.
I used to work with laptop developers, so know their problems.
Laptops are not any less endurable than desktops, it is just they get thrown around a lot more. A workstation SCSI disk is very fragile, but you dont throw it the backs of cars, kick it under the seat of the airplane in front etc, etc. Furthermore, vendors dont like unrelaible laptops; the annualized failure rate (AFR) makes the difference between profit and loss on warrantied systems.
What has happened is that the trend towards consumer-centric laptops has eliminated much of the exchangable-IDE drive design of the past. These all-in-ones are robust as they are mechanically simpler. The other big trend is that with two main ODMs in taiwan doing much of the work, a greater level of expertise has built up into doing quality designs.
Now, for an annedote of amusement:
When the first thin-and-flat laptops came out, the AFR went up. This was tracked down to people dropping their laptops while trying to lift them out of bags/briefcases one handed, and losing their grip. The older laptops were so fat and heavy they could be lifted two handed, but the new ones were thin and light enough to be one handed -only nobody had thought of this when it was designed
If you look at today's laptops, they normally have grippy texture on the top and bottom, or some features on the batteries to provide a better handgrip. This is to eliminate the problem.
That's an amusing story but it shows the problem: a robust laptop is not an intel chipset in a box. It is a system designed with ergonomics in mind too.
Mom?!
I'm surfing from my 1.6 ghz ASUS M6 that I bought last January, and it's running 1280x800 without problems and always have.
Have you been looking to Dell as a source of cutting-edge tech?
Back in the day, when you had to do any remote work on a notebook, you had to suffer with a dial-up connection. Fine for Web browsing. Poor for large file transfers.
Wireless networking and the availability of free Wi-Fi everywhere definitely raised the bar for notebook use.
Also, don't forget that now notebooks come with DVD-ROMs and burners. This makes a notebook the ultimate portable DVD watching station (beats watching DVDs on the tiny screens of portable DVD players) and backing up your data is far sim-pler than the era of parallel port Zip drives.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Best. Outsell. Ever.
I have been a PC builder/tweaker for 10 years. My latest system was a water-cooled P4 2.26 GHz overclocked to 2.85 GHz with a water-cooled, overclocked Radeon 9800 Pro. I even had heatsinks on the Radeon's memory and a waterblock on my northbridge. I've been running RAID-0 setups for years now and my mantra for cases was "Bigger = More Airflow = Better"
I say this all as a backdrop to current situation. You see, I talk about this PC in the past tense because I am selling it. I have bought a Dell Inspiron 9300. The 2MB cache on my 1.86 GHz Pentium M makes this processor perform in the same league as a 3 GHz Pentium 4. It is actually faster than my overclocked system in many tasks. The GeForce Go 6800 outperforms my Radeon 9800 Pro (not surprising given the generation difference) and the 1 GB of dual channel DDR RAM allows for plenty of gaming overhead. The 1440x900 widescreen display has native resolution support in many newer games (like Half Life 2 and Riddick.) The 7200 RPM drive, while not comparable to a RAID-0 setup, is still quite zippy and the dual layer DVD burner works like a charm.
So what's my point (other than tooting my horn?) My point is that desktop replacements have truly come of age. There isn't a game on the market now or in the next two years that I won't be able to play comfortably. Given that this little beast runs cooler and quieter than my desktop, there's nothing that I miss. Nothing.
So what does a "100 fold" magnification of utility mean? Does that mean that people are willing to pay 100 times more for a laptop? Or that they're 100 times more likely to use a laptop than they used to be?
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Does it count every motherboard sold? Does it just count out of the box computers? The article doesn't really tell us what they were counting. I know a lot of us put together our own computers - it's cheaper and you get exactly what you want.
Assembling a laptop, however, is a horribly complicated job by comparison. I've never tried it, I admit, but it sounds like it's even pretty difficult to upgrade a laptop.
Perhaps this survey just demonstrates that a higher number of people are building their own computers.
So, how is life on Marketing World?
(Remember, it's not tiny, it's Fun Size!)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
I'd like to see a company design a laptop that used an "easy snap together case" that you could interchange parts with. Make it so things like video cards and such could be changed out for a few years, thus increasing laptop life.
Does anyone do this anymore? I always believed in the upgradeability of the PC, but have never seen it work. I guess I upgrade on too long of a cycle. Because I always have to buy new memory, power supply, CPU cooler (let's not forget that, those CPUs don't cool themselves, and you don't want a cheap cooler). Not to mention that you would then have to dispose of the parts you replace. If it is worth the hassle of eBay for you, great. For me, it has always been less of a hassle and easier to just build a new PC. Maybe if I upgraded sooner than every 5 years this wouldn't be a problem.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
This is no surprise. Everyone already has at least one desktop. With the falling prices of laptops, people are getting into mobile- and couch-computing. I just got a laptop (PowerBook G4) and now I barely use my PC. It's just more convenient most of the time.
getting my first laptop three months ago.
It's a Gateway M675 PRR with a 17" LCD and, except for a single wart, it's works beautifully, especially with SimplyMEPIS-3.3
In fact, the MEPIS side works BETTER than the XP Pro side. I don't have to buy a better firewall or pay for anti-virus software subscriptions. On MEPIS the printer connected via the WPS54G always connects and works flawlessly. On XP the printer connection is not so reliable.
The only downside to Gateway is the Windows centric support protocols, which require installing ActiveX components over the web. And, you HAVE to use IE 5.5+ to use their support IF you want to do an online chat with a techie or allow them to scan your system. FireFox won't work, so you are exposing your systemn to attack while you are seeking help. (Wart? Neither Nero 6.0 or K3B would burn a CD on the DVD/CD multi drive that was installed, which wasn't the one that was ordered, but the cd burner embedded in Windows Explorer would. So, it's a software problem.)
A great laptop with a great wireless network has produced the most useful and easiest to use computer environment I've ever experienced since I purchased an Apple II+ in 1978.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
people (most people) who just browse, use office, email..etc. dont need more than the computing power available around year 2000. so a typical 2005 laptop is going to have a typical 2003 desktop computing power for about ~$1000. we're still waiting for the next big computing resource hog: real speech recognition.
--- widget evolution: enhanced, plus, super, ultra, extreme, exxxtreme, ultra-extreme,
http://www.brentcastle.com
Since when was any one form factor necessarily better? Toss them out there and let the economy sort 'em out. If one is better, it will gain market share. Obviously, laptops are becoming more popular. I am simply deferring to the numbers here.
I built a custom box a few years ago, but I recently bought a laptop for college and couldn't be happier. It's not like I have time to play the latest and greatest games on a PC anyway; might as well save myself the time and money and wait to buy a next-gen console.
Any laptop's battery will fail if it just sits unused without every recharging/discharging. If you rarely use a laptop then you need to be sure to power it from the battery for a couple of hours and then recharge it at least once per month to extend the life of the battery.
I used to have a pretty crappy laptop at work. 600 MHz Intel processor, about 30 minutes battery life. It really sucked. My company replaced it with a new one. 1.7 GHz Centrino. 4+ hour battery life. It's really nice. But it's still not ready to replace the desktop. The biggest drawback is still I/O performance. When I rip a CD with my laptop, it slows down the entire computer. It's annoying as hell. The computer itself actually compresses into MP3 faster than my 3.2 GHz desktop. But while it's extracting, the encoding is SLLLLLOOOOOOWWW and everything on the computer is slow. And it's not just the internal stuff that's slow. I have an external hard drive (Maxtor 7200 RPM). It seems a lot slower on the laptop than on my desktop (when importing music into iTunes, for example).
try doing that with a more recent Camaro, say one after 95 or whenever OBD II was mandated. Engines and ECU's have become so intertwined and manufacturers so slow to release diagnostic tools outside of daelerships it is insane. Also the unique tools for most brands means highly expensive niche tools instead of a wide general standard that allows for after market competition.
Additionally, besides diagnostic ability you could also have performance enhancing options as well with control over your EFI system. Higher fuel flow curves for more performance and lower leaner mixtures for better highway cruising etc...
An easy user interface to car computers really does need to happen. Manufacturers are getting away with highway robbery. Diagnosing what is wrong with cars today should be easier, not some black magic they only do in back where you often can't go because of insurance liabilities. Case in point... I can buy a calaculator with a multiline alpha numeric display for less than 50 bucks. A cars ECU is already programmed to relay information. Why then do I not have such a display in my car? Why do I have an idiot check engine light that is a catch all for EVERY error detected by the ECU rather than a simple 4 line LCD readout giving me the error codes and what it means? Its not the cost of such a system, or development of it. Most diagnostic equipment is extrodinarily rudimentary in terms of computing technology and is already developed for use in the dealer repair operations. Tieing that info to an LCD read out would generally involve less sophistication than a low level texas instruments calaculator.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.