Longhorn Beta Begins

gcnaddict writes "Microsoft has officially sent invitations to their best beta testers and to WinHEC participants for their Windows Code Name Longhorn beta program. They also unveiled a new Beta Client which promises to be better than the current beta management systems, and will replace other means of beta distribution, including WindowsBeta and BetaPlace all in one fell swoop. While the new, highly anticipated operating system is not up for download, Beta 1 is expected to be up for grabs later this month. Unfortunately, it seems that the preliminary invitation codes are unique per user. Microsoft is expected to allow the public to apply for the beta program later this summer, and as usual, Longhorn will be a part of the Community Technology Preview program."

Comments

Beta begins?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't realize Microsoft was releasing it to consumers this early.

Re:Beta begins?

[DoorFrame]

Maybe they're going to push up the release date.

A boy can dream, can't he?

Re:Beta begins?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should dream about something more realistic, that could actually happen. Like you getting a date, Slashdot without dupe-stories or me spending a day without a computer.

Re:Beta begins?

[Agarax]

Fool.

Longhorn will be released on schedual, along with Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:Beta begins?

[sdpuppy]

Sure, why not!

But there has been a slight delay:

[install]chugga chugga

[boot]

{spinning wheel}

{happy Mac guy face appears}

Bill Gates: Guys - we need to make just one more change before we distribute for beta...

Re:Beta begins?

[Anonymous Coward]

MS has been releasing all betas since 1981 :D

highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

Euhm, highly anticipated?

What is CowboyNeil smoking?

Re:highly anticipated?

[highwind81]

I think it's gcnaddict who's smoking. Not CowboyNeil.

Re:highly anticipated?

[FLAGGR]

Highly anticipated by virus writers. Gotta get a head start.

Re:highly anticipated?

[Mr. Maestro]

How come every time I heard the word Longhorn, I think of this scene from City Slickers:

Mitch: Rollin', rollin', rollin', keep them dogies rollin', man my ass is swollen, Rawhide! Round em up, ride em in, get em up, get em dressed, comb their hair, brush their teeth, Rawhide! Tie me down, tell me lies, pull my hair, slap my thighs - with a big wet strap of, Rawhide!

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

What? This is a very good thing for 64bit systems. Now all we need are drivers...

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

Euhm, highly anticipated?

Look elsewhere.

Don't forget to read all the comments! :-)

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are ridiculous. I'm assuming you are a *nix guy or mac guy and that's why you have to bash Microsoft at every possible turn. Keep your mouth shut until you have a copy of Longhorn to look at.

Re:highly anticipated?

[koreaman]

Yes. Highly anticipated.

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know how EASY it is to harden a Windows workstation? You "Pro Linux/UNIX" gossiping women need a little lesson, & here it is (and Linux, unless SELinux (and there are prehardened versions of NT based OS' too you know)):

With a 1/2 hour work with regedit &/or notepad @ most, check it:

Take 30 minutes and do this, never get infected AGAIN (on Windows no less), ever, & most certainly NOT in 12 minutes time as was said here recently & I posted this for those that have been victims because it works... (@ least until nothing NEW that's malicious comes along that beats this list that is, & it's worked for myself & others online for 8 years running now almost in its techniques, which ALL work harmoniously in conjunction simultaneously with one another/concurrently)!

APK Online Security 20-points basic checklist. A combination of things really, layered security is the idea!

DETAILS:

http://www.avatar.demon.nl/APK.html [demon.nl]

SUMMARY:

1.) IP Security Policy in place for adbanner servers blocking OR other "undesirable" IP addresses.

2.) A custom adbanner blocking HOSTS file with 35,000++ entries in it with known banner ad servers in it (which have been shown in some cases even as bearing malicious javascript etc. in them as well as just plain slowing you down as you surf the web by calling out to DNS' servers for URL to IP resolution & loading their remote data).

3.) Tcp/IP filtering @ the IP Stack levels (UDP & TCP) allowing ONLY port 80. Need others? Open then up, this is all I need personally here.

4.) Using up to date AntiVirus & AntiSpyware.

5.) Using .PAC file proxy filters in all web-browsers vs. adbanners & such.

6.) IE Restricted Zones (added to via .reg files which the first body of code in the HOSTS file I use is prepped for the .reg filedata for via a program I built in ObjectPascal delphi console mode ripping away the URL from the 127.0.0.1 loopbacks I equate adbanner servers to, etc. & then insert these here and into IPSecPols also).

7.) Custom adbanner filtering Cascading Style Sheets in webbrowsers when possible (via Opera).

8.) ZoneAlarm Pro or Native Windows Firewall. ZA is the better overall, the Windows one works though.

9.) Disable Java-javascript &/or ActiveX-activescripting in your webbrowsers.

Sorry webmasters, but too many holes popup here and ONLY IE gets that enabled here for Windows Update really only or sites that "demand" I use either.

10.) Making sure the Operating System is up-to-date/fully hotfix or service pack patched.

11.) Disabling uneeded services (especially remote oriented ones, e.g.-> Remote Registry) gaining not only memory & CPU cycles back, but also security:

Microsoft is even into this one now, evidenced by Windows Server 2003 Security Configuration Wizard run by the installation of SP #1 final onto it.

(I've been doing it for YEARS now, better than a decade since Windows NT 3.51 in fact: It WORKS!)

12.) Using restricted Registry &/or FileSystem ACL rights to disks/folders/files + Registry Hives.

13.) Amending secpol.msc & gpedit.msc security polices local to my system for better security.

14.) Using User-Rights & restricting them to my usual logged on user & the system entity SID itself only on most rights, denying all other groups.

15.) Applying registry hacks known to fortify the system BOTH remotely & locally per Microsoft guides for this on Windows Server 2003 for "OS Hardening" &/or "Tcp/IP Hardening".

16.) Being sure applications are up-to-date & patched current as well.

17.) Lastly here, by using a LinkSys BEFSX41 "NAT" & true CISCO technologies based stateful-packet-inspecting firewall router!

18.) Disabling NetBIOS over Tcp/IP & stopping Client for Microsoft Netw

Re:highly anticipated?

[jericho4.0]

# update-rc.d remove [unneeded stuff] # apt-get update # apt-get upgrade

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

You definitely have NO sense of humor. Too much soda pop, perhaps? Maybe an "undigested bit of beef"? Sorry about the mis-quote...

So... What's next outta you?

The proper word is "out of".

"I love to laugh..." HA HA HA HA...

Re:highly anticipated?

[DrSkwid]

You "Pro Linux/UNIX" gossiping women need a little lesson :

9.) Disable Java-javascript
19.) ADDITIONALLY: RUNNING IE in a "runas limited user class" sandbox effect!

That list is something akin to an admission of failure

Admit it, your OS of choice is crap

Do you know what I had to do to harden my OS of choice : NOTHING AT ALL

No NAT, no CISCO stateful firewall, no notepad, absolutely fucking zip.

CAT5 straight onto the Internet baby !!

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

"That list is something akin to an admission of failure" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Sunday July 10, @04:10AM (#13025217)

Admission of failure?

My man, It's a simply a comprehensive summary list of the URL (which has the details) on how to secure a system on Windows against spyware/virus/malware!

Windows IS the most used & thus, the most attacked & that list's stood the "test of time" for nearly 8 years now, & works against that. It saw things coming (e.g.-> HOSTS files vs. adbanners that were malicious script infested) WAY before they hit.

It saw things like Java NOT being what it was touted as: "Impenetrable sandbox".

And, it saw the possibilities in problems with Active X &/or javascript being misused as well!

(AND, more... cutting of services is another one many said was 'dumb', well newsflash - even MS does it now in Windows Server 2003 Security Configuration Wizard for security and cpu cycles & memory + other forms of I/O being gained back! I was doing it for a decade ++ ahead of that, & it works with all the rest of the list, just fine!)

It also seems that you think that Linux (assuming you are talking about this, or FreeBSD etc., maybe a MAC) is 'impenetrable/impregnable' outta the box? Guess again -

Then tell me:

Why is there SELinux for exsmple? Because Linux is immediately 110% secure?? I think not!

Newsflash - none of them REALLY are, there's always a way in, or a way to freeze them solid/dead IF they're out there on the public net. Or, @ least slow them up so bad, it's no fun using them.

"Do you know what I had to do to harden my OS of choice : NOTHING AT ALL" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Sunday July 10, @04:10AM (#13025217)

Then, I think you're foolish man. What OS are you running? I don't care really, because none of them are impenetrable outta the box/stock. Put it this way, I know for sure. That's all I have to say about that.

Thing is:

Getting hacked or virus/malware/spyware infected only sets you back & forces you to redo a system, & that?

Stops progress! Progress on your part for things you may be involved in creating for work or even fun!

(@ least in my point of view of a developer, because not only securing & customizing your OS has to be done. So do the compilers & their peripherals libs &/or tools, plus customizing the IDE, & so much more... takes TIME!)

I'd rather be up & running 24x7 for years @ a time growing & building upon the foundations of what I have built over that time constantly (e.g.-> In programs), without having to redo the rig (even via GHOST images, which unless you do them daily? Are always a BIT behind your latest/greatest anyhow... and if left unsecured, and you suck in a malicious virus/malware/spyware? What good's a GHOST IMAGE anyhow? It's bound to blow up, or spread that crap to others!)

I don't go for it, so I secure the hell out of a system the best I can, so I can keep on building on what I have already & not have to redo it every 4 weeks etc. due to leaving it dead-up wide open to ingress/attack etc. :)

APK

Re:highly anticipated?

[DrSkwid]

OpenBSD

seems you are deluded

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

Big deal, does OpenBSD run as many applications and on as many hardwares as does Windows Server 2003? No. Who's the deluded one here?? And if you think that ANY BSD derivant is impregnable to attack, there's little doubt you are deluded.

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenBSD's weakness' list (just a TINY sampling of what is/was possible to penetrate OpenBSD):

1.) OpenBSD False syslogd Source IP Reporting Weakness:

http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/6219

2.) OpenBSD's mysql security weakness:

http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive2/bugs/200103 /msg00022.html

(Seems OpenBSD isn't as "secure out of the box" as I stated most all OS' are w/out tweaking it)

3.) PAM Authentication Execution Path Timing Information Leakage Weakness:

http://securityfocus.com/bid/7342

(Funny, I see OpenBSD on THAT list also)

4.) systrace in OpenBSD:

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=363 731&seqNum=7&rl=1

"Despite its many features, systrace has a number of limitations that bear mentioning. First, it lacks a facility to specify that you can permit once for a system call, such as binding to a socket. This can allow an attacker to recycle a system call, potentially at elevated privilege.

Second, system calls have no exclusive or. For example, an application might be permitted to open a le or a device, but not both. This weakness could ultimately be leveraged by an attacker who seeks to do more than a program was intended to do.

Lastly, the parent process has no control over spawned processes. For example, if you allow /bin/sh to be executed, you cannot control it beyond its own systrace policy. One way to get around this limitation is to specify a policy for the child process to inherit if it is to be less liberal than the normal system policy. This would be done via systrace"

5.) OpenBSD lprm(1) exploit:

Code is right there:

http://security.opennet.ru/base/bsd/1047145087_128 9.txt.html

For an exploit into OpenBSD...

*****

Need I go on? I don't think so but I easily could... OpenBSD's not some "magically secure system" any more than any other is and new holes get found on them all every month.

So, DrSkwid?

Please: Don't try to tell others that your OpenBSD is 'impregnable out of the box', because like most other OS'? It isn't.

(Sure, some of that may or may not have been patched above from my lists by this point, but you try to make it seem as if OpenBSD is some 'security panacea' magical formula, & it's clearly not).

And, it most certainly isn't as flexible, ubiquitous, & powerful as Windows Server 2003 is with as any applications surrounding it in both commercial and freeware implementations as Windows has a tremendous wealth of and most certainly does not run on as many types of hardware.

6.) This is not just myself stating it, here is another one regarding that:

http://geodsoft.com/opinion/server_comp/security/l inux.htm

"The default OpenBSD install is much more secure but also much less functional than a Windows NT or 2000 default install and most"

Keyword = DEFAULT! AND, less functional. BIG sticking points vs. Windows Server 2003.

Which is WHY I put up my list for Windows 2000/XP/2003 server users.

To teach them how to REALLY secure these Os' from MS, far above the DEFAULT security settings they ship with and how + why.

Give it up DrSkwid about OpenBSD being 'so great' when clearly, it's not by comparison. And, having to call me names?

Not too intelligent, nor fact based. The sign of the loser in forums online. It's right up there with spelling and grammar checking.

Above all - It's easy to secure

Re:highly anticipated?

[DrSkwid]

> Big deal, does OpenBSD run as many applications and on as many hardwares as does Windows Server 2003?

How is that relevant ?

Does Windows Server 2003 run on UltraSparc ?

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

Very relevant:

If an Operating System, like OpenBSD, runs less hardwares (due to lack of drivers for available hardwares (peripheral hardwares, not just CPU's)) vs. another Operating System like Windows Server 2003?

It's less useful!

Again: Hardwares in peripherals, not CPU's, because all an OS is to an end-user REALLY, is a platform upon which to do tasks for work.

APK

Re:highly anticipated?

[DrSkwid]

My metric is that if the hardware is not open enough to have drivers then it is the hardware that is less useful, not the OS.

Re:highly anticipated?

[Anonymous Coward]

My metric?

Is that OpenBSD runs less peripheral hardwares and softwares by FAR vs. Windows Server 2003 and thus, it does less. Newsflash: An operating system is a platform upon which end users get tasks done. If they use various hardwares (peripherals) to do so and Windows Server 2003 does the job, & OpenBSD doesn't with said hardwares?

Which is the superior OS??

The one that runs less of those said peripheral hardwares (OpenBSD, and it sure is "open" alright & not 'impenetrable' as I showed how systrace could be exploited STILL in it) OR the OS that runs more in the way of hardwares out there (Windwos Server 2003) for jobs end users do?

After all - an OS? Is a platform, that's all, upon which end-users do jobs on for work... with softwares as well for said tasks & there's NO QUESTION Windows Server 2003 provides more of that as well.

You seem to think that horses & buggies are better than HumVees then I take it?

Apparently, hardware makers don't see OpenBSD as a viable platform. Thus, they don't build drivers for it... no monetary incentive probably!

APK

P.S.=> You missed the fact an attacker could leverage systrace vulnerabilities on OpenBSD to this day:

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=363 731&seqNum=7&rl=1 [informit.com]

"Second, system calls have no exclusive or. For example, an application might be permitted to open a file or a device, but not both. This weakness could ultimately be leveraged by an attacker who seeks to do more than a program was intended to do."

So much for your touting an less versatile (with peripheral hardware & software out there) as superior, and for touting OpenBSD as impenetrable... More holes like that come out ALL the time too, & for ALL Os'...

In fact, in ths quote from you, after I had to point out a zillion holes in your supposedly IMPENETRABLE and no need to secure it at all OS, OpenBSD!

---

"but you are right, nothing is 100%"

---

Damn right I am, because my man, I truly DO KNOW that no OS is currently perfectly secure, & so do you... which is why I could not understand your first reply to me! I was showing others how to make Windows more secure, & you busted on me for it! apk

Re:highly anticipated?

[DrSkwid]

my OP said "what did I have to do - Nothing"

All the rest is coping with your skewed notions of power and flexibilty.

Windows 2003 SERVER

ergo peripherals are small fry, it's a server to do servery things

That OpenBSD doesn't have a ForceFeedback steering wheel or whatever has little to do with it.

That Windows will run Intuit or Everquest II and OpenBSD won't has nothing to do with it.

Wow, you found a way that a local user can escalate privileges.

The funniest thing is that I *don't* tout OpenBSD as anything, other than I can install it and won't get owned by some punk on the internet (unlike Windows 2003 Advanced Server).

My *desktop* machine is a plan9 box.

Your turn

Everything Enabled?

[opello]

Have they disabled a lot of stuff like they have in the 'rc' releases of longhorn? Or is all the 'glits' tossed in (visual effects and the like)?

Re:Everything Enabled?

[Synbiosis]

Have they disabled a lot of stuff like they have in the 'rc' releases of longhorn? Or is all the 'glits' tossed in (visual effects and the like)?

If previous betas (of Whistler/XP) are any indication, this beta should have about 70-80% of the features in the final product, including the interface. But considering the interface is the easiest thing to change, I wouldn't count on the 'glits' being the one found in the final product.

Re:Everything Enabled?

[MrZeebo]

Offtopic, but how exactly can it be possible for a question to be moderated informative?

Re:Everything Enabled?

[slashdotnickname]

Maybe because questions often expose an alternative perspective on the thing in question?

Re:Everything Enabled?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet how ironic is it to see your own question get modded insightful as well! It doesn't make any more sense this time now, does it?

Now let's see if this gets modded informative too ;)

Re:Everything Enabled?

[spectre_240sx]

Shouldn't that be "insightful?"

Re:Everything Enabled?

[dmayle]

Re:Everything Enabled? (Score:5, Informative)

Offtopic, but how exactly can it be possible for a question to be moderated informative?

Could it be the same way a question can be moderated funny?

Note to mods: this joke doesn't work if you don't mod this up funny ;-)

Re:Everything Enabled?

[linguae]

Re: Everything Enabled? (Score:3, Funny)

Could it be the same way a question can be moderated funny?

I guess so.

Re:Everything Enabled?

[DigitlDud]

Longhorn is about 75% feature complete but I'm pretty sure the DWM (that's the 3D accelerated desktop compositing) wil be enabled in there. You need new video drivers to support it though. I think if you have an Nvidia or ATI card that's fairly recent (supports DX9, pixel shader 2.0) you should get the drivers in box.

Re:Everything Enabled?

[the_mighty_$]

Sort of offtopic, but how exactly can it be possible for a question to be moderated informative?

Re:Everything Enabled?

[toddestan]

Note to mods: this joke doesn't work if you don't mod this up funny ;-)

I love these games! I'll take a +5 Interesting please.

Re:Everything Enabled?

[TodPunk]

HA! Just Interesting. How strange is it that this little off-topic thread has become an instant karma boost for all involved?

Obligatory..

[G-Licious!]

Will it run on Linux?

Re:Obligatory..

[MrArmyAnt]

WTF? Will windows run on linux... Sure.......

Re:Obligatory..

[KiloByte]

VMware? qemu?

Re:Obligatory..

[advb89]

Will it run on Linux?

(Score:2, Funny)
umm... Not Even!

Windows by any other name, and ...

[pallmall1]

I still think it should be called Wronghorn

Re:Windows by any other name, and ...

[Slur]

At this point the only fitting name is...

LongTooth!

Re:Windows by any other name, and ...

[daeley]

LongTooth!

I think Wronghorn might be more appropriate.

Re:Windows by any other name, and ...

[drsquare]

Or more appropriately, Stillborn.

i'm in!

[outlaw69]

YEEHAAA! Just checked my Email! I got an invite for it...sweet.

Re:i'm in!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi Bill! (or are you Steve?)

Re:i'm in!

[Anonymous Coward]

He is begging to b flamed, please help him out (yeah this is the original flamebait)

Re:i'm in!

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Think of it as "working for MS without getting paid."

Re:i'm in!

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of it as "working for MS without getting paid."

hmmm, much the same as working for RedHat without being paid?

Re:i'm in!

[Anonymous Coward]

I had this thought: Like the "Send Error Report" (or whatever) in XP, what if you simply ignored any bug reports (i.e. - didn't send them)? Had it installed on a machine that isn't connected to the internet perhaps, or block the ports the bug reporter uses with a router/firewall. Just a thought. I've always liked the directness of monkeywrenching.

I know I speak for Sladhotters when I say...

[Krankheit]

Huh? Where is the torrent? gcnaddict forgot to add the torrent link. I plan to install this on my 233 MHz Dell Latitude 64 MB of RAM. I got Windows 2000 Professional to install on my 133 MHz Dell Dimension with 32 MB of RAM (albeit Windows complained about running too low on virtual memory), so I know this laptop will run Longhorn.

Re:I know I speak for Sladhotters when I say...

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll run, but it'll run like Christopher Reeves.

Re:I know I speak for Sladhotters when I say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Christopher Reeve is dead you insensitive clod! ...which I must admit only strengthens your position.

Why will I want to upgrade?

[ip_freely_2000]

I'm happy with XP.

It never crashes
I don't get viruses or spyware or hacks
All the software I need works fine
I have all the connectivity I need

So why is expecting people to upgrade?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Iphtashu Fitz]

I'm happy with XP.

I never upgraded the machine I run Windows on from 2000. Why upgrade to XP when everything I need runs on 2000?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Donny Smith]

>Why upgrade to XP when everything I need runs on 2000?

I don't think you can "upgrade" from Win2K to XP anyway.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mainstream support for Windows XP ends somewhere in 2007! -:)

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Krankheit]

Well, my grandmother is fine with Windows 98 and Firefox, but she isn't a developer. I personally run Debian Linux on my desktop Macs and PCs, and laptops, with the OpenBSD to firewall, and FreeBSD and NetBSD on servers. But as a developer, I am interested in the latest version of Windows and Mac OS X because I may want to develop for it. Right now my applications I have written use Xlib directly, so it will be difficult to port, but nonetheless, when I do start porting, I will want to have Longhorn as a target to develop for, because that is what is going to go with all the new Dells.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[tehsoul]

why do people buy new cars when their old one isnt broken? why did you buy a dvd player when your vcr still worked fine? people want ease-of-use and gimmicks. the middle aged computer noobs and cartuning teens will be able to eat their hearts out! even MORE useless blingbling! YAY! (win2k forever 3)

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[rob_squared]

Its very simple, I think. Right now, windows 2000 is in the place that XP is going to be after longhorn has been released for a while. They will have an end of life for it, and stop rolling out service packs. There very well could be a time where I simply need to move to XP. And even if us technical people can survive without that kind of support, a lot of people won't be able to.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[shatfield]

Wow, so you're the 1.
Buy a lottery ticket.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Liquidrage]

I think you answered your own question then.

Don't upgrade if you don't think it's worth it.

Myself, I'm also very happy with XP. I'll have to decide if some of the new features in Longhorn are worth it. If they aren't, then I won't upgrade.

It's just common sense.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Tezkah]

So why is expecting people to upgrade?

Because the new IE included in Longhorn includes Clippy saying "Hey, something about your grammer isn't right!" when posting to slashdot!

Please upgrade, for the children...

Re: Why will I want to upgrade?

[Alwin Henseler]

You mean you didn't unpack your new PC from its shipping box yet?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[KiloByte]

Right, the spelling you included is exactly the one they would use.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Ismilar]

So: Non developers are fine with what they have and don't need Longhorn. ..but developers need Longhorn, so that they can develop programs so that the non-developers who don't need Longhorn can use Longhorn? That makes sense (unfortunately, from Microsoft's perspective, it actually does make sense).

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

How the fuck is parent modded to Score:4 Insightful?

It's completely wrong and uninformed.

Is Donny "insightful" because he "thinks" you can't "upgrade"?

Fucking moron mods.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Krankheit]

Microsoft hopes people will be forced to upgrade to Longhorn to use my software. But I plan to make sure my software runs on Windows NT 4.0/Windows 95 and up. I would only install Longhorn to work out incompatibilities with changes in Longhorn.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[StormUP]

You CAN upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP professional. You cannot upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP Home. See the following chart for complete upgrade options: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/m atrix.mspx

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

you didn't get the joke. he's implying that going from windows 2000 to windows XP is a downgrade, not an upgrade.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[FireFury03]

Because the new IE included in Longhorn includes Clippy saying "Hey, something about your grammer isn't right!" when posting to slashdot!

Clippy: "You look like you're downloading a virus, do you need help with that?"

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Glonoinha]

The SMP code in Windows 2000 code was written under the assumption (valid, back in 1999) that any SMP machine would have two physical discrete CPUs. The code in XP's kernel has been tweaked to work better with the HyperThreaded CPU's, tweaks that 2000 didn't get (I believe it has something to do with a no-op or a wait or something.)

If you have a HT capable computer, it is worth upgrading to XP.

The remote desktop functionality built into the desktop is pretty cool too, but not worth upgrading for unless you absolutely needed it or wanted it (for example if you had one of the new iPaq's with a 640x480 screen and TermServer, wanted to remote control the computer over wifi.)

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[David Horn]

Since XP is basically Win2K, that's a pointless comment.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

why do people buy new cars when their old one isnt broken?

Various Reasons, to keep up with their neighbors, better fuel mileage, more comfort, have a second car so both the husband and wife can go to work.

why did you buy a dvd player when your vcr still worked fine?

Simple, Video Cassettes wear out and DVDs don't and DVDs are much higher quality, not to mention easier to backup to another DVD.

With computers, all most people need is a $350 computer from Dell for light internet access, listening to music, for Word Processing and finances.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[fshalor]

You're pretty much the exception to the rule.

If all windows code would still run in win95, then most of *that* would run in wine.

And if half the stuff from back in the dos--> win95 days was written RIGHT (ie, with actual exception checking and stuff) most of that would run fine in wine too.

Sorry.. I've had some programs that were sent with flow meters which were originally written (badly) for dos. And then branded as working with "any version of windows". Yeah, it will, as long as it's not an NT based kernel. Since if it is, you get aroud 15% packet loss from the instrument due to the crap code. It's like 8% in win98, and less than 4% in win95.

And between 0-1% in both wine, boches (as it is in dos). But the gui wont work since the person who wrote the code forgot to exception check.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[bsharitt]

*<---------------Parent Comment

*<---------------Your head

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[triso]

Why will I want to upgrade?

Use it as an excuse to buy a new computer with at least four dual-core Intel CPUS, 16 GB RAM, 500 GB HD, Combo Blu-ray/HD-DVD, ATI Radeon® 97000 PRO with 1 GB RAM, etc., etc.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[superpulpsicle]

The only difference between Windows Advanced Server, Server, Professional is 1 registry key.

M$ is the same company that oversell you what you need. In theory they can just let you download a longhorn kernel to plugin to an existing XP box. But it's better business sense for them to charge you an OS monopolistic price at $200.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[HyperShadowDC]

So, this new computer will have two seperate types of ram? I don't see how 16 GB RAM and 1 GB RAM works.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Bendejo]

Amen! here's to all those people still running 2000! XP blows. Although... when it comes out, I am planning to upgrade to Longhorn. In my profession I need to be up to date with that sort of thing. Hopefully it wont be crap like XP.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[noidentity]

why did you buy a dvd player when your vcr still worked fine?

Because I was just damn tired of having my VCR fast-forward when I pressed the fast-forward button. My DVD player is great, it has a mind of its own.

I'm hoping Longhorn will be similar, with digital rights mutants (DRM) to protect my right to give up my rights to content producers.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the person was trying to imply the 1GB of RAM is for the video card.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Hockers]

Well the card would have 1 Gb of RAM on board and the motherboard would have another 16.. (at the moment very righ end is probably something like 4Gb on the motherboard and 512Mb of the card)

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Aerion]

Some day you will buy a new computer, and at that point, resistance is futile. You will be upgraded.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Parent is marked as funny, goes to show the level of maturity of the mods here.

I use XP at work, my box is up for about 20 days now, I even installed MSDE (the lite version of SQL Server) withouth having to reboot.

Viruses or spyware? Never had any, but I know when to delete that "cute screensaver", instead of cliking thorough.

People bash MS a bit too much around here, IMHO.

Oh well, karma be dammed.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[todd10k]

isnt the point of releasing a new OS so that people can build better programs? i mean, if everyone was happy with Linux...why so many distros? lornhorn gives developers the ability to write safer, faster, more powerful programs. if end users wish to use these programs, they migrate. pretty simple.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[UnrefinedLayman]

No, the only difference is not one registry key. This is an old myth that only sloppy computer people propagate.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=887565 should explain it more clearly for you.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

and you can't fucking read. jokes are (theoretically) "funny", not "insightful"

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Uber Banker]

So, this new computer will have two seperate types of ram? I don't see how 16 GB RAM and 1 GB RAM works.

Then you need to re-read the parent comment. The 1GB mentioned belongs to the graphics card, and graphics cards, today, do not share RAM with the main system.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Shinaku]

Uh.. he was talking about the video card having 1gb of ram and the system having 16gb.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Mozk]

Indeed those are the current requirements to run Windows Longhorn.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Saint Stephen]

BIG changes in the kernel between W2K and XP, and further big changes between XP and Server 2003.

They tweak it continuously.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I thought the third movie was the weakest of the bunch. However, it's soundtrack was second only to Koyaanisqaatsi itself. I specially liked the tone that Yoyo Ma brought to it.

But all three movies are very personal experiences, so don't take my word for it. The mood your are when you watch it makes up for more than half of the outcome.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[drsquare]

Because DVDs are better than videos. I don't think that comparison applies in this case. I don't think Longhorn will be offering anything of any value other than increased system requirements (which is only of value to the hardware industry).

It's a deal between Microsoft and the hardware industry: Microsoft makes money on its operating systems, the vendors make money on the hardware, they both profit and everyone else gets arse-raped.

There'll soon be a day when you'll need a gigabyte of RAM to send an e-mail or write a shopping list. And it won't do anything that couldn't be done on a tenth of the requirements.

Developers are lazy these days. Computer power increases so quickly the developers get sloppier and sloppier, making slower and more bloated code. They're like a gas: expanding to fill all available space. If they release an upgrade or a new version of some software, they don't just fix the broken bits and make it easier or faster to use than before, they do some of that, and then throw in some bloated eye candy that doesn't do anything.

This means the user can choose between an old, fast, half-usable version, and a new, slow, more-functional version. They could of course make a new, fast, functional version, but there's no money to be made in that. Glitter and hype sells, functionality doesn't.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

hey idiot. the fucking video card RAM.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[StormUP]

For one, if you use SCSI, Windows 2000 has a bug where it ignores the write_through flag. Windows XP correctly honors this flag. Some people complain that XP has "poor SCSI performance" because of this, but it is just doing what it is supposed to have done all along -- Namely write the data directly to disk rather than cache(usually to prevent possible data loss or corruption) when the applications ask it not to use the cache. This obviously results in a performance hit, but it is DOING THE RIGHT THING. Sure, in most cases for most users this doesn't matter and most users don't even have SCSI, but this is an important feature for some applications that is BROKEN in Windows 2000.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[sm00f]

Yeah the biggest change seems to be they made winxp swap out continuously even with 1gig of ram, so thats why I "upgraded" to win2k from xp so I can watch my hd light actually stay off for minutes at a time instead of constantly thrashing away. Oh and on server 2003 I actually ran it on my home comp for a while since it is faster than 2000 (and obviously way faster than xp bloatware) but the funny thing is I have this crappy satellite uplink dialup program i have to run that crashes and uses 100% cpu and win2k3 totally grinds to a halt and you basically have to hit the reset button to kill it (or wait literraly 5mins for task manager to come up) you would think ms would have tweaked their new great server os to handle 100% cpu eating programs better than 2k (can kill it in 10secs top vs 2k3).

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[superpulpsicle]

You are biting the M$ bait.

There was a software out there called NTswitch. M$ fought very hard and quietly underground to keep this program out of Internet's reach. With 1 click it modifies all the necessary keys in the registry and you get whatever version you want after reboot.

Your link is a typical M$ defense using NT4.0 to prove different versions are different, because quite frankly NT4.0 WAS the last version that had a different architecture. That's why there was no NTswitch for NT4.0.

Win2000, 2003, XP versioning is all the same shit, different registry keys. They bundle different garbage, so consumers can't tell skin deep.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[lpcustom]

everyone is saying dvd's are better than vhs....I have vhs tapes that still work and dvd that don't...they may not look as good but when a 20 year old vhs works and a 5 year dvd doesn't then i don't see that as an upgrade

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[penix1]

"Myself, I'm also very happy with XP. I'll have to decide if some of the new features in Longhorn are worth it. If they aren't, then I won't upgrade."

It isn't that easy. Try getting fixes for it when Longhorn hits the streets. The common support answer for XP from Redmond will be, "Upgrade!" Unfortunately, that is the way of all closed source programs.

B.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[The_Wilschon]

In case you hadn't paid attention, it is as much the evil business practices of MS as the crappiness of their software. And in many many ways, the crappiness of their software is not evident to someone who is not a developer.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[damiam]

He's saying that XP is not an improvement over 2000.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[dal20402]

We've gotten accustomed to thinking of backward compatibility as a good thing... and usually it is. But, with Windows, do we really want backward compatibility beyond XP SP2?

The more users (especially n00bs, Grandpa, etc.) upgrade to SP2 or later, the less spambots/zombies will be out there. It seems to me like it would actually be *responsible* for Windows developers in particular to cut off backward compatibility.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

No, no, you're confusing Clippy with something that knows what's going on. It's more like:

Clippy: "This e-mail looks like it's from your bank and asking you to confirm your name and password for security reasons. Would you like help with that?"

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

So here is what you said in your parent post:

"The only difference between Windows Advanced Server, Server, Professional is 1 registry key."

And when someone called you on your nonsense you changed it too:

"There was a software out there called NTswitch. M$ fought very hard and quietly underground to keep this program out of Internet's reach. With 1 click it modifies all the necessary keys in the registry and you get whatever version you want after reboot."

I thought, according to your parent post, the only difference was one registry key? If you actually knew anything about NTSwitch it does not give you all the features but does give you some of them. It was also known for causing memory leaks as it was dependant on features that weren't present in the OS. Many of the important features are not bundled in all the versions like you say they are. If you believe they are how about you check out the binary sizes which will prove you wrong.

P.S. Writing MS with a dollar sign just makes you look like an idiot, if you're older than 10 I feel sorry for you. You might as well just add OMGWTFBBQLOLZ to the end of your post.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[man_of_mr_e]

I think the problem that most people with a brain have with comments like yours is that USING YOUR BRAIN would help your argument.

Do you honestly think that WIndows 2000, 2003, and XP are the exact same code with only some registry keys set differently?

Apart from the fact that tons of work has been done on each version (bug fixes, new features, etc..) The difference between server and workstation versions is very clear. Various server programs that exist on the Server versions of the OS do not exist on the workstation versions.

There is no DNS server, DHCP server, Active Directory Server, etc.. on XP. Fooling the kernel into thinking it's a server version doesn't make those programs magically appear.

XP ships with IIS5.1, 2003 with IIS6. Fooling the kernel into thinking it's a server version doesn't make IIS6 magically appear.

Sure, you can switch the kernel of a workstation version of Windows to a Server version, but that's like claming that you can convert Fedora Core into Red Hat Advanced Server by changing some config entries.

It's mostly the userland that you're interested in, not the kernel tunings.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[man_of_mr_e]

I really don't understand this line of argument.

Windows 2000 is no longer supported. That means any new vulnerabilities found in XP probably exist in 2000 as well, and you won't get fixes for them. That alone is reason enough to stop using 2000 (whether you go to XP or Linux is irrelevant).

Personally, I make daily use of features in XP that 2000 doesn't have. You might as well, if you actually used it.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Unfortunately, that is the way of all closed source programs."

With most open source programs nobody cares and no one is going to give you the support you want. If you want support your only options are learn to code (which most people can't and won't do) or pay someone a ton of cash to do it for you. Upgrading is definately going to be less expensive and less of a pain than hiring a developer. The vast majority of open source programs only have a very small number of developers contributing to them and most of them die very early because they don't have the manpower to keep them alive.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[man_of_mr_e]

I'm strugling to understand how your argument has anything to do with the differences between 2000 and XP in regards to hyperthreading. Even if your argument were correct (which it's not, see my later comment to you for details), it's a completely different point than the person you are responding to made.

It is a fact that XP has fixes which make it more Hyperthreading friendly, but 2000 doesn't. No registry key will change that.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[PsychoSid]

What ! I will get Longhorn with my new Apple computer...

Oh wait...

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Saint Stephen]

You have it misconfigured.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[koreaman]

I don't have any broken DVDs, to my knowledge. Keep them all in the case. If you don't have that, go down to $COMPUTER_STORE and buy 100 disc sleeves or whatever. Enjoy your DVDs for years to come.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[koreaman]

What? Everything he says applies to me too. You may have been trying to be funny, but compared to other Windowses, XP is excellent. And of course all modern software works fine, and most old software can be made to work (e.g. Visicalc). If not, it's usually the software's fault.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, you can't fucking read. the poster is asking why the post was moderated "insightful" despite the fact that "[i]t's completely wrong and uninformed."

again. he didn't get the fucking joke.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[koreaman]

hey idiot. 4 people beat you to it.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[WIAKywbfatw]

*<---------------Ability to distinguish the meaning of "Parent" from that of "Grandparent"

*<---------------Your head

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[WIAKywbfatw]

Yes, we do. Plenty of people like me are quite happy using Windows 2000 Professional, which is without a doubt the finest workstation (and by that I mean non-server) OS that Microsoft has ever produced.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also the way of all open source programs. If version 1.2 has a bug, it'll be fixed in CVS, to be made available in next release 7.3. No-one is going to back-port it for you. You can take a stab at fixing it yourself, but not many people will be able to do that.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[jericho4.0]

Many of us mod "insightful" instead, to give the karma, and to make the distinction between subtle humor and "In Soviet Russia" jokes.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[bankman]

Parent is marked as funny, goes to show the level of maturity of the mods here.

You posting this statement here says something about you as well, doesn't it?

I use XP at work, my box is up for about 20 days now, I even installed MSDE (the lite version of SQL Server) withouth having to reboot.

Wow, impressive, a desktop box running without a reboot for 20 days and you didn't even have to reboot it to install some "lite" database system.

A couple of pointers:
1. Real Men don't brag about uptime until it can be measured in years.
2. A Real System is never rebooted.

Viruses or spyware? Never had any, but I know when to delete that "cute screensaver", instead of cliking thorough.

What are viruses and spyware, and what is this screensaver stuff anyway? BTW, the fact that you have to worry about stuff like "cute screensaver" tells a lot about MS's security approach, don't you think?

People bash MS a bit too much around here, IMHO.

Actually MS is not bashed enough for the amount of crap they produce and the headaches they induce, IMHO.

;-)

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of us mod "insightful" instead, to give the karma

The purpose of the moderation system is to enhance the discussion and to make the better posts stand out. Karma is a side issue. Many readers are not interested in the "funny" posts, and adjust their scores appropriately. Your method breaks that, simply so you can "reward" somebody for being witty.

If you feel compelled to otherwise mod something you find funny, at least choose underrated instead of insightful. If in metamoderation I get a post modded insightful, but it isn't, I mark it unfair.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

Clippy: You look like a script to me; would you like to interpret the words in this image so you can post?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[swissfondue]

"because that is what is going to go with all the new Dells"
The Register: Michael Dell would like to license Mac OS X and ship it with future PC products, the Dell founder and chairman has revealed.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[jimicus]

I use XP at work, my box is up for about 20 days now

These guys have been up since before XP was released. I'll bet there are lots of non-public facing boxes which have been up even longer.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

"A couple of pointers:
1. Real Men don't brag about uptime until it can be measured in years.
2. A Real System is never rebooted."


When was the last time you left your parents basement?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Liquidrage]

Support for XP will not drop the moment Longhorn hits the self. It will take a few years.

If there comes a time where there are features or fixes that you want are no longer available for XP, well then, there's your reason to upgrade.

And as others have mentioned, open source isn't really immune to this issue either.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[NanoGator]

"In case you hadn't paid attention, it is as much the evil business practices of MS as the crappiness of their software."

Pity niether of those are truely well known about here. Everybody thinks Bill Gates put a gun to a bunch of people's heads and demanded money. Everybdoy still giggles and snorts at BSOD jokes even though anybody who started with Win2k or XP would go "Huh?"

You're in denial if you don't think Slashdot isn't one big anti-Microsoft pitchfork party. Seriously, it's like reading a Babylon 5 fan site masquerading as a sci-fi news site that mostly talks about why people are smarter for watching B5 instead of Star Trek. "Rick Berman used his magical influence that .. for some reason couldn't keep Enterprise on the air.. to make Babylon 5 fade away. (Score: 5, Insightful)"

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[pherthyl]

There are two ways to get modded up on slashdot.
1) Bash Microsoft
2) Bash "open source zealots" for bashing Microsoft

All clear?

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[penix1]

And backporting is as simple as:

patch -p0 package.patch

You act as if I have to manually go through the code to get the fix. In either event, you are still chained to one producer and their whims. Let me ask a question of all those that replied (including you). What would you do with Windows if tomorrow Microsoft decided it wasn't worth doing PC applications any more and dropped it's entire Windows line? Who can and will take up the slack? That is less likely on open source projects because the genie is out of the bottle for anyone to pick it up.

B.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree wholeheartedly, which is too bad. Sometimes, Slashdot can be great... but the "AntiMicrosoft" stuff's WAY too much.

I mean, come on: Posting Bill Gates face as a borg? Give us a break guys!

Technology's NOT about Linux only, and not only Windows either.

APK

P.S.=> And, all the Penguin "F.U.D." in the world cannot change the fact it still cannot compete with Microsoft currently best OS, Windows Server 2003... always playing "catch up ball" & know what that means? It's losing...

Sure, Linux is growing, & is a GOOD midrange server!

Heck, I use it @ times to see how far its come & 2.6 kernel builds & newest KDE? VERY impressive!

(And, I will even post cool things I admire about it (mainly it being freely developed internationally by many people & how far its come since I tried it 1993-1994 in Slackware 1.02 iirc...)

BUT these "penguins"? The ones out there contributing to it coding & designing?? Well, THEM I can respect totally!

They're out MAKING IT BETTER...

However, the "f.u.d. gossipping women" types?

LOL, I have NO respect for that kind @ all... I mean, how can I?

That's pure "jihad" zealotry, alot of talk, no action! apk

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, this new computer will have two seperate types of ram?

Hey HyperShadow,

Here's a tip: When about to post a smartass comment, it's a good idea to double-check to make sure you're not about to look like a fucking moron instead.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Nailer]

my box is up for about 20 days now, I even installed MSDE (the lite version of SQL Server) withouth having to reboot.

People bash MS a bit too much around here, IMHO.

A 20 day uptime isn't impressive. Nor is the ability to occasionally install new apps or bugfixes without having to stop all the apps on the system, kick of all the users, and reboot.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong ------->*------- You

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

"You're in denial if you don't think Slashdot isn't one big anti-Microsoft pitchfork party."

Slashdot has become known for it's complete and utter idiocy. No one in the industry reads this garbage of a site and takes it seriously anymore. The vast majority of Slashtards will never leave their parents basement let alone code something the rest of the world wants to use. I mean how can anyone take a site that runs on the shit code that is Slashcode seriously on programming and technology news? Slashcode is a perfect example of the kind of garbage that open source produces. Now there are exceptions however 99.99% of open source projects are complete and utter garbage produced by coders who know virtually nothing.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[DrSkwid]

> lornhorn gives developers the ability to write safer, faster, more powerful programs

Presumably you mean Longhorn.

And I'm interested as to where you got your evaluation for from an OS that isn;t even finished yet.

I'm also interested to know what new Kernel API's will provide these all singing all dancing syscalls that can't be coded in today's userland. Could you enlighten me please.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[DrSkwid]

in Soviet Russia insightful mods you !

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[jakbutler]

I would love it if Clippy corrected my grammar while misspelling it as grammer :D

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[PygmySurfer]

Your link is a typical M$ defense using NT4.0 to prove different versions are different, because quite frankly NT4.0 WAS the last version that had a different architecture. That's why there was no NTswitch for NT4.0.

Actually, I think you have it backwards. There was a hack for NT 4 which you could use to install Server with a Workstation CD, just by switching a couple files (mainly txtsetup.sif I believe).

Sadly, I'm a day late with my response, so I don't think anyone will see it :(

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[todd10k]

I bought into the hype and marketing pizazz. sue me.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

For a desktop O/S. Uptime that is measured in weeks is reasonable. Unlike a server, where change is managed and planned for months ahead of time, desktop boxes change their configuration a lot more frequently.

Win 3.x, you had to reboot at least twice a day. Huge PITA. Always needed a reboot in the middle of a deadline.

Then I moved to OS/2 for a few years. Could usually run for a few days at a time before reboots. Not bad, and worked well enough that I was getting my work done without interruptions.

NTv4, about the same as OS/2, but wider hardware support which made shopping easier. Usually rebooted every week or so.

Basically, once uptime got past a few days for my desktop O/S, I stopped caring about how long I could keep it up for. Most desktop systems get turned off daily anyway in a business environment. The only exception to that is laptops, where it's useful to leave the machine on, but just put it to sleep between uses.

Windows still has a bit of work to do in that area. While my laptop has been up and running for 10 days (about normal), it does not always do as well if I start plugging/unplugging it from the dock multiple times per day.

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[fm2503]

Seems IOS wins for the things I work with: rabbit uptime is 3 years, 39 weeks, 3 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes System returned to ROM by reload at 05:00:18 UTC Tue Oct 9 2001 Next best Solaris: 3:59pm up 936 day(s), 6:12, 0 users, load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.01

Re:Why will I want to upgrade?

[lpcustom]

Well, when you start seeing them decompose for no reason you'll see my point. Cd's did the same thing. I have a couple of those 200 disk cases with plastic sleeves. I have to this day a "Blade Runner" cd set that has been kept in there because I liked that game a lot when it first came out. It has stayed in that case and the case has stayed on a shelf for about 3 years. When it was put up, there was nothing wrong with the disks. Now, all the disks have see-through holes in them. You can hold them up to a light and it looks like a bunch of stars or something. Unless there's a CD gnome running around destroying cd's with a needle I can't explain how this happened. This is just one example of how stored CD's deteriorate. If you've never had this happen then you are lucky.

Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

An incomplete version of an incomplete operating system. Sign me up.

Re:Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

No. They are NOT talking about Linux. Did you reply to the wrong story again?

Sweet!

[ShyGuy91284]

Where's the torrent?

Re:Sweet!

[slavemowgli]

I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was one on ThePirateBay.

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft.Windows.Longhorn.b5048.32bit.WinHec.DVD- WinBeta ... the usual places...

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=longhorn

Re:Sweet!

[ciroknight]

Did anyone else think that Microsoft's new Beta distribution system will use BitTorrent?? Saves them lots on bandwidth costs, and it's been proven to work (Blizzard's WoW betas for example). Possible? Likely?

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you stupid!?
It isn't Torrent, it's Avalanche!

Re:Sweet!

[Tibe]

Possible? Yes.
Likely? No.

With Microsoft researching P2P technology namely Avalanche, why would they use BitTorrent?

Also, I don't think MS have a problem with bandwidth costs.

Would you like to know more?

Re:Sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

That was a developer build distributed at the WinHEC conference. Microsoft gave it out to developers to program with and whatnot. Most of the newness is quite concealed. Even the developer stuff is, I think the release was mostly for hardware driver devs.

The new beta build is at least 520x, not 5048 or below.

Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here...

[powerline22]

Reading this makes me want to punch myself in the face with all of the marketing-speak.

Avalon: new opportunities for developing exciting applications while reducing complexity

Indigo: radically simplifies how the next generation of connected systems will be built.

AERO: a new design philosophy that delivers a compelling user experience from the moment users start interacting with the computer to the moment they leave.

Compelling? I don't want my UI to be a driving force or something like that. I want it to be easy and simple. Exciting applications? When was the last time that Microsoft Excel got your blood pumping and you wanted to scream HELL YEA! THIS IS AWESOME!!

glits?

[DoorFrame]

I assume that where you wrote 'glits' you meant to write 'bling'.

Re:glits?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'm pretty sure he meant 'gling'

Re:glits?

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe he meant 'grits'

Re:glits?

[Anonymous Coward]

snuh?

Re:glits?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the poster meant gritz. Meh...

At least they added a new feature

[noidentity]

Let's just hope Microsoft doesn't remove this beta management system by the time Longhorn is released, as has happened to so many other features.

let me explain something about longhorn...

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

here in brasil (and maybe other latin countries like italy too) is said that a man cheated by his wife or girlfriend has "horns". so what makes microsoft think that i'll want "long horns" ???

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[swimin]

Companies don't think about the names at all when they sell it in other countries ... or at least they don't do a very good job.

Imagine trying to sell a car named No va in a spanish-speaking country.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Timesprout]

In other countries 'horn' is slang for an erection, so a long horn will do just fine.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[25albert]

I can confirm that it is the same in French. To "have horns" means to be cheated on by his/her partner. But since the French don't speak barbaric languages and expect the barbarians to learn a civilized language instead, they will not understand "longhorn", so it won't matter.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Monkelectric]

The crowning achivement being the chevy Nova or No va ("doesn't go") which was expected to do well in latin america....

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[WormholeFiend]

hey, look on the bright side, at least Microsoft didnt name it "Wax Tadpole", cuz then you know it would bite.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[jumpingfred]

the nova sold well in Latin America. Strangely people were able to understand that nova was different from no va.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[aengblom]

First, it's a code name not the official name. It's not really for marketing purposes. Second, its "longhorn" (not "long horn"). A longhorn is a breed of cattle.

Now why I want an OS named after a breed of cattle... I can't answer.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Glonoinha]

Now why I want an OS named after a breed of cattle... I can't answer.

Maybe the guys writing it worship cows or something?

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironic, then, that a product called Longhorn should be released by a company called Microsoft.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Jester99]

It's named after a bar.

XP was code-named "Whistler," a large ski mountain north of Redmond. The next version of Windows was therefore suposed to be codenamed "Blackcomb" -- the other mountain in the ski area. Except that Blackcomb's feature list got so long, they realized it'd take them five or more years to pull it all off, so they decided to split the more neccessary features into a release that'd come out sooner than Blackcomb. The obvious choice of name for this release is called Longhorn -- the bar that sits between the Whistler and Blackcomb mountains. :)

So when you think Windows, think beer!

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[yuriismaster]

Kimarhi not have long horn.

Biran with long horn BREAK Kimarhi's horn.

Kimarhi will have beta OS, defeat Biran's long horn.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[canadianlinuxnerd]

As a linux user I perfer "free" beer

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing in Romania.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[NoMercy]

Not to rain on everyones parrade but it's a development name, it's not a release name, the likely release name will be something like Windows XP2, Windows 2005, Windows NG, Windows NX, Windows....

If someone even suggested it be called 'Windows Longhorn' the marketing people would probably have them shot.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[$0.02]

If you don't want to by Nova because it does not go then just by a Yugo.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[StormUP]

It is possible. I mean there is already the Cult of the Dead Cow. http://www.cultdeadcow.com/

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[oliverthered]

but the MR2 was sold under a different name in france. Who wants a car called Merde.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[dal20402]

Obligatory...

Put a tiger in the same room as a longhorn. What happen?

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the guys writing it worship cows or something?

No, but the guys at the help desk in India might...

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Atmchicago]

This expression can also be seen in British literature, such as Shakespeare's plays, when he uses the term "cuckold" - someone who got cheated on by his wife. Basically, it made you the laughing stock of the town.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[HeliumHigh]

Possibly Dead Cows, or maybe a cult of sorts...
(http://cultdeadcow.com/ for the two of you who don't know XD)

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Osty]

XP was code-named "Whistler," a large ski mountain north of Redmond.

Whistler is north of Redmond, but saying it's "north of Redmond" doesn't really do it justice. It's a ski resort (and town) in British Columbia, Canada, north of Vancouver. Pretty cool place, though I hate skiing.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a reference to horn size relating to infidelity in Shakespeare's play Othello. So it must date back to before the 1600s in England.

I can say it's not a common phrase here in the states though.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

The expression is common in Turkish as well. This is very interesting...

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Anonymous Coward]

Longhorn is the name of the pub at the bottom of both ski mountains: Whistler and Blackcomb in British Columbia, Canada. You can literally ski down, dump your gear on racks right outside the bar and go in for a drink.

I can't remember if XP was nicknamed Whistler or Blackcomb but Longhorn is the next in physical order.

So that means the guys in Microsoft are a bunch of Seattle Ski bums how drive up to Whistler.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Nirvelli]

I think the joke is that it was outsourced to India, where Cows are god, but I might be reading into it too much...

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[Lisandro]

There's a well known compant that makes bread products in South America called Bimbo. Try selling those in the USA ;)

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[matts-reign]

And longhorn is named after a saloon in between whistler and blackcomb called longhorn. Apparently bill g likes the place or something.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[jrutley]

Just to clarify... "Avoir les cornes, not "Avoir les klaxons," right?

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[amliebsch]

Swear to god, I saw those for sale at a local 7-11 (in Milwaukee, Wisconsin). I am not making this up. They were muffins, IIRC.

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[25albert]

Just to clarify... "Avoir les cornes, not "Avoir les klaxons," right?

Yes, "Avoir des cornes". Silently, without "klaxons".

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[jakbutler]

That used to be an expression in english as well. Shakespeare was well know for using "horn" jokes that the average reader today doesn't get. Hook 'em horns!

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[tobar mersa]

So when you think Windows, think beer!

Well, when I think of Windows, I certainly want to drink beer. Does that count?

Re:let me explain something about longhorn...

[tobar mersa]

So when you think Windows, think beer!

Well, thinking of Windows certainly drives me to drink beer. Does that count?

Already got this...

[intmainvoid]

With all the features dropped recently, can't I just participate in the beta with my copy of XP?

Re:Send them back.

[DoorFrame]

Yes, because running an operating system makes you a slave. A SLAVE!

You need to be re-educated.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

Clearly you need to be re-educated. Please navigate to Microsoft.com and follow the links.

Wrong name

[iamdrscience]

Longhorn? More like shoehorn, the way they're trying to cram all these new "features" into it.

With all the visual frosting MS is laying on Longhorn is turning into an episode of "Pimp my OS"

Re:Wrong name

[Jose-S]

I would not underestimate Longhorn. It could be quite significant to Linux and Java both, and I don't believe either camp grasps that at this point. It will become clear in 3-5 years.

Re:Wrong name

[FLAGGR]

Haha, okay that's good. You sound really scary, up until the end. "It will become clear in 3-5 years". Think of how much linux/gnu has changed in the past 3-5 years. KDE was at v2. It has been improved like crazy since then. Let's not even start on the kernel, X11 (er, take that one out) and all the other apps, alot of which might not've even existed at that time point. From what I've read, longhorn has nothing on linux/gnu circa 2005, I don't expect it to pull ahead of linux/gnu 2010 :)

p.s. Insert similar argument for Java here.

Re:Wrong name

[Andrew Tanenbaum]

Here's one: a stable binary interface. I don't have to find packages for my "distro" of Longhorn, I can just run Windows 95+ software.

Re:Wrong name

[jav1231]

There's a solid investment. "Sir, we're moving to Longhorn so we can keep all our Office97 installations running."

Re:Wrong name

[Anonymous Coward]

Office 97 doesn't even work well under XP let alone Longhorn...

Re:Wrong name

[FLAGGR]

Linux has a stable binary interface? I think your thinking package management. You can run windows 95+ software? Running any linux app, from its creation until now is the same no matter what linux version. As long as its an ELF binary (see: yes.) Talking about finding packages is talking about package management, so your point is not compatible with itself. To make it clear in windows terms, your talking about installation files, which surprisingly enough you still have to "find" for windows (I didn't know it was hard to click "debian install" or "redhat rpm" on sourceforge, or type emerge in gentoo, but hey hey - your a windows user), so your argument makes no sense. Try again.

Re:Wrong name

[Jose-S]

That's at least how long a new technology takes to be adopted. Maybe Linux distributors and Sun are already thinking about it (I'm of course referring to the Avalon stuff and its potential impact on web app development.) But maybe it will take that long for them to react, and by then it might be too late. Sun is probably the only company in a position to do something about it (perhaps necessarily with the help of the OSS community) since I believe MS must ship a JRE with Windows. If not, it's game over, given MS's deployment power, and Avalon will need to be ported to Linux (people have already expressed interest in doing this) however badly and fairly incompatible as it may turn out.

Just my read on the situation. I could of course be wrong.

Re:Wrong name

[pallmall1]

I would not underestimate Longhorn. It could be quite significant to Linux and Java both...

I agree. The introduction of Longhorn and the spectre of a forced system/company wide *upgrade* (--choke--)costing HUGE $$ will present a tremendous "window" of opportunity for Linux. If a company has to upgrade (as they have been forced to do every couple of years by MS) again, why not use this upgrade to break away from MS and switch to open source? If I were selling Linux/open-source systems, I'd be waiting to pounce the very day that Wronghorn ships.

Re:Wrong name

[farble1670]

get your flamebait right people. does it have too many features, or have all of the good features been removed?

Re:Wrong name

[Oliver Defacszio]

I think that's what non-idiots call "FUD," as not only does O97 work well under XP for myself and anyone I know, but it works better under XP than any other previous Microsoft OS.

But no, let me guess -- since this is anti-Microsoft FUD, it's "evidence." Bleh.

Re:Wrong name

[PsychoSid]

Not that I like it, but until a (worthy) competitor to Exchange arrives I wouldn't hold your breath.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

"When was the last time that Microsoft Excel got your blood pumping and you wanted to scream HELL YEA! THIS IS AWESOME!!"

When it let me save my work instead of crashing?

(Okay I don't use Excel, though I remember if elementary school using the old 95 boxes and typing my report in Word and each time when I went to save the computer would BSOD, it happened on like 5 different boxes)

Disclaimer and marketing hype history..

[3seas]

"This Web site describes current aspirations, scenarios, and advancements being considered for the family of future Microsoft Windows client operating system offerings, code-named Longhorn. There is no guarantee, implied or otherwise, concerning final Longhorn release features or attributes. This statement of the Longhorn aspirations was last updated April 25, 2005."

and what do we know of MS marketing hype history?

I heard that...

[daviq]

maybe something might work...but that idea is far out...

Screenshots of build 5203

[queezle]

http://www.jackpearce.com/stuff/longhorn/ http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/computers/os/windows/l onghorn/lh5203/post/index.html http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/computers/os/windows/l onghorn/lh5203/install/index.html It's starting to look very nice!

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[adolfojp]

With a patch like this you can use the windows xp native skinning engine to apply themes like these for free, without sacrifycing performance, and make your XP look like Longhorn (or Mac or what you like).

You can also download a free program to change your logon screen.

What I really wanted to see were the new innovations that were supposed to be shipped with Longhorn, like the new filesystem. Sadly, some of them will be missing in order to meet the deadlines.

Cheers,
Adolfo

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[queezle]

Themexp is a bad place to get visual styles from, they wrap them in a spyware installer. You can get more and better ones from here. Alternative patcher. I'm glad you didn't suggest stylexp though. Yz shadow gives similar shadow effects, but it's not perfect.

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[adolfojp]

Thanks for the info. I would have never imagined that deviantart had windows styles. :-)

I did notice about the spyware wrappers, but to my experience, only a few of them have them.

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[BioCS.Nerd]

I see they still haven't fixed that bug that causes Windows to be hideously ugly when you turn your computer on...

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[softends]

/.'ed, mirror anyone?

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[bcmm]

It's starting to look very nice!

Apart from the new translucent window decorations and the new Internet Explorer with widgets in bizarre places; it's starting to look like StyleXP running on Windows XP with a third-party style.

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't use stylexp, patch uxtheme.dll yourself or download a patcher, much easier and less crap software to be installed. And use deviantart not themexp, don't go supporting spyware.

See earlier replies than yours.

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[bcmm]

Heh, just making the point.
I would if I still used Windows's GUI, but as it is it's only on the machine for games so the style engine service is disabled anyway (it's second only to antivirus for making the machine slow down).
Linux for everything else, and it doesn't need hacking to be themable. And the themes don't ever come with spyware. :-)

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

You can extract the WISE installer files with (filename) /x (directory). Then rename "%EXENAME%" to some arbitrary ZIP filename, and voila--no spyware.

Yes, they suck for doing that.

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this is Aero and has some new dynamic visual effects which old shell can't do. Also, translucency and all those stuff don't hog up CPU an instead use your GPU which eats such stuff for breakfast.
It is also possible to use 3D widgets, blend in video as texture etc.
Programs GUI's can even be constructed in XML which is rather simplistic approach.

Linux is getting something similar as well (Xgl,luminocity).

Re:Screenshots of build 5203

[bcmm]

Well, what I said was the those particular screenshots showed no real changes to the interface, other than transparency.

XML interfaces? Sounds like Mozilla's XUL. Great idea, IMHO, lets see if they implement it well.

Bah! This is Microsoft, remember?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're starting the alpha now-- the beta test doesn't begin until it's on store shelves, and lasts until SP1 (what they SHOULD have shipped as the final product) is released.

Re:Bah! This is Microsoft, remember?

[Name Anonymous]

SP1 as the final product? I thought SP1 was the second beta and SP2 was closer to the final release.

Re:Bah! This is Microsoft, remember?

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't any different when the kernel developers release new "stable" versions of the kernel, only to have it finally be actually stable many revisions later.

Re:Bah! This is Microsoft, remember?

[Swamii]

By then, WinFS & Monad will probably be part of the OS.

Re:Bah! This is Microsoft, remember?

[Mazem]

Except in Nebraska.

Why migrating to Longhorn?

[Anonymous Coward]

With the alternatives such as OS X available and the ``business model'' Microsoft imposed onto their users during the past years together with the messy approach called ``Windows'', why would anyone migrate to Longhorn? Whatever the Microsoft suits will call it when it is released, if you are going to use Longhorn in the future then you have asked for it; good alternatives are now available for sure. I can see no reason whatsoever to use Longhorn.

Wow, great!

[ratta]

How much will i have to pay to try the beta?

Re:Send them back.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, running the OS of a company that has more than 90% market share on the desktop, uses this stranglehold on the market as a means to push their products to other areas and clearly has an agenda a lot of people don't like when it comes to intellectual property rights is also a political and ethical issue.

While calling people using windows slaves is childish, ignoring these issue isn't exactly mature either.

Re:Send them back.

[hype7]

just so that all the alternate OSes are covered, my note will read something along the lines of "thanks Bill, but I got my copy off Steve a few months ago - and it ain't a beta"

-- james

Why...

[Dante Shamest]

When was the last time that Microsoft Excel got your blood pumping and you wanted to scream HELL YEA! THIS IS AWESOME!!

...when they got rid of Clippy of course.

You have not seen excited?

[DebianDog]

Not excited?!?! You need to go to an M$ developers conference! - (MPEG 1.6 meg)

Re:You have not seen excited?

[Rob_Bryerton]

Ballmer seems to be cranked up on about, oh, an 8-ball of coke in that video. That clip is classic.... I haven't seen it in a few months...thanks for posting!

Re:You have not seen excited?

[5plicer]

That made my day! Thank you :)

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[FLAGGR]

Uh, its still marketspeak to a developer. If relearning a bunch of windows (keyword: windows) api's - when you know they'll be just as retarded as the last ones - sounds good to you, then you need to pick a new OS.

Avalon: new opportunities for developing exciting applications while reducing complexity
Hah, you hear this from *every* company that is pushing a development platform. Sony with the PS2 (hah), Sony with the PS3 (Hah) and MS with the x360 (hah). You really trust microsoft on their word?

Indigo: radically simplifies how the next generation of connected systems will be built.
No idea what this means. Sorry I don't keep up on windows news. Sounds like shit though. AERO: a new design philosophy that delivers a compelling user experience from the moment users start interacting with the computer to the moment they leave.
You've seen the screenshots. Looks pretty cluttered and clunky. If you want drop shadows, go to OSX. Also, note their usage of "philosophy". MS is a marketing company, not a collection of computer-science-philosphers. I keep picturing the OO philosophy, and how it got taken to the extreme (java.. honestly.. what the fuck?) of course I trust Sun to not fuck things up as much as MS (which isn't saying much for Sun.)


I honestly can't believe your a developer, because such a person would be the first person to see through the shit and realize you've been promised the same things over and over since the begining of time. Well, maybe you write spyware.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time that Microsoft Excel got your blood pumping and you wanted to scream HELL YEA! THIS IS AWESOME!!

Go read this guy's comments and you'll see someone who honestly seems to think MS products will make people act like that.

ahem...

[dwntwnboi]

from the page footer:

"This Web site describes current aspirations, scenarios, and advancements being considered for the family of future Microsoft Windows client operating system offerings, code-named Longhorn. There is no guarantee, implied or otherwise, concerning final Longhorn release features or attributes. This statement of the Longhorn aspirations was last updated April 25, 2005."

I can't wait

[WormholeFiend]

to see which color they picked for the Screen of Death.

Re:I can't wait

[guardian653dave]

It has levels of Screen of Death: RedSOD for really bad BlueSOD for bad things GreenSOD for just plain crashing :-) (Okay, the green might not be real, but I'm not kidding for the first two)

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2005/05/07/4 15335.aspx Seems that its actually a red screen of death (although possibly subject to change)

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't have to wait long to see it, once you start running Longhorn.

Re:I can't wait

[Sethosayher]

Red, which will complement the blood spraying out of my head and onto my monitor as I kill myself.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[gnarlin]

What do you mean Microsoft office doesn't get your blood pumping!?
Last time I used MS Word I was cursing and screaming only a few minutes after I started working!

So where's the torrent?

[Anonymous Coward]

SO who's going to hook us up with the torrent? ;p
For now i'm sticking with linux, if longhorn really is a lot more secure perhaps i'll make the switch when it's out.

Most secure?

[Anonymous Coward]

It says that W/Longhorn will be "the most secure version of Windows ever." Didn't they say that about W/XP?

Re:Most secure?

[sethadam1]

I sincerely hope that every version of Windows is tagged that. You want it should less secure than XP?

Every version ought to improve security.

Re:Most secure?

[ChrisK077]

Well it'll be better at keeping the evildoer in front of the screen in check, of course!

Re:Most secure?

[jalefkowit]

It's not like "most secure version of Windows ever" is a high bar to clear.

Re:Most secure?

[KarmaMB84]

If it wasn't the most secure version ever, it'd either be a) less secure or b) just as secure as the current most secure version. Uninteresting post modded up by a mod who couldn't hold their load :|

Re:Most secure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent gets modded. WTF?

Object X is in someway better than its predecessor. This doesn't suggest predecessor wasn't what it was made out to be at the time.

But by all means once you finished masturbation because you've posted an anti-MS comment to /. do remember that in your entire life you will achieve nothing. Grow the fuck up.

Re:Most secure?

[Anonymous Coward]

they can't both be the most secure version *ever*.

Re:Most secure?

[sethadam1]

Oh yes they can. Windows XP is the most secure WHEN IT WAS RELEASED. Longhorn should be when IT is released. You follow?

Otherwise, how can you ever have the ___est ever of anything? One day, somebody will beat it, nullifying the first one's claim.

can anyone tell me a single compelling reason...

[hilaryduff]

why joe average user would want or need longhorn?

Re:Send them back.

[Rallion]

While calling people using windows slaves is childish, ignoring these issue isn't exactly mature either.

Bitching about it on a web site where everybody will validate your opinions for you, on the other hand...

Got my invite

[Scott Swezey]

Yup... Checked my gmail and sure enough, there it is.

Two cheers for irony.

Re:Got my invite

[Anonymous Coward]

As did I and it's... not. Oh well, I'm still in another, non-Microsoft beta testing program, itsatisfies my tester needs enough. I find this stuff fun, for whatever reason (though a whole OS would be more so).

Re:can anyone tell me a single compelling reason..

[Rallion]

Come now. Because Microsoft tells them they do.

It't not as if that's different from any industry in the world. You need very little, but companies tell you you need very much. It's how capitalism works.

Urban Legend

[Junta]

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp

Favorite example:
Would you refuse to buy a dinette set called 'Notable' because, obviously, it says there is "no table"?

Questions for those with access to the beta

[earthbound kid]

Did they fix the "Shut do..." menu? Did they get rid of the 16-color icons sprinkled into the last version? Are they still putting the menu bar under the location bar, but above the toolbar for no discernible reason? Does the UI still suck?

I know the last alpha or whatever that people had screenshots of was supposed to be for testing driver or whatever, but holy crap, it was a total UI train wreck. Just ugly, with styles mashed together at random, for no reason.

So, has it been fixed? Or will that be in Longhorn SP2?

Re:Questions for those with access to the beta

[Medieval_Gnome]

In the MMC console thing they were showing, they still had some win9x vintage icons. But the one 16-color icon on the start menu seems to have been replaced, and Shut Do... was fixed.

As to styles being smashed together, it's worse than the other screenshots. (pictures here)

For instance, this picture has a dark start bar, a somewhat light window decoration, two dark bars in the explorer window, and an XP style sidebar. It's a complete mess, and I for one would take XP Tinkertoy look over this.

Re:Questions for those with access to the beta

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging from screenshots, the answers to all your questions is no, they did not fix it. But I wouldn't worry too much. I remember using an early beta of Windows 2000 (back when it was still called NT 5.0) and it was very different from the final product, so I'm sure that those things will be corrected before the first release canidate is out. This is a beta after all.

Where's the beef?

[jav1231]

How come most of the screenshots I see make Longhorn look like AOL for hardware? Where is the "big change?"

Re:can anyone tell me a single compelling reason..

[Professor_UNIX]

why joe average user would want or need longhorn?

Because it will be bundled with every new computer they buy. Eventually the Windows XP update source will be shut down so you won't be able to get security patches. You'll either need to upgrade or risk having your machine be easily exploitable.

Oh oh oh!! I have an even better one... Microsoft could deactivate your copy of Windows XP or shut down their Windows XP activation process so you can't re-activate new installations once you upgrade your machine. That would be pretty devious of them and probably get them in trouble with the government again, but we're completely at the whim of Microsoft when it comes to installing XP on new machines (unless you have some corp licensed copy or a cracked copy of course).

Excel

[Craig Ringer]

I have, in fact, responded that way to Excel. Not becuse I like Excel (I loathe spreadsheets with a passion that is difficut to convey) but because I'd just been using OpenOffice.org Calc and Excel was such an amazing relief that it was positively delightful.

Scary, eh?

A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[martian67]

* Replacement of Win32 with.NET, even explorer.exe is running as managed code in the leaked betas. I can't even begin to list the advantages of this..NET is great, and with Mono making great strides in the language specification, any language will be able to compile intermediate.NET code, and code from different languages will operate together without a care. * Avalon--presentation system that is completely hardware-accelerated and vector-based. One video showed two Notepads rotating around while still completely usable at the same time a video played in Media Player. Old apps will be compatible. * XAML and other technologies--I've said it before, but it was just such a cool example. During an MSDN video (freely available at the site), the dev used Win32 Emacs to write a 10-15 XAML app that let him update his blog, complete with resized vector graphics and a video of moving clouds looping on the background of the window, all using the command-line.NET compiler. * WinFS will still exist. They're just cutting a few features that will probably be re-introduced in a service pack anyway. WinFS is incredibly exciting--one WinFS dev went to the command line and did a query for certain employees within the last week, and it came up in less than a second. No more brute-force searching. Also, no file drives. And yet, they're retaining folder and drive structures in case you want to operate that way. * Aero--this is their top-secret interface yet to be unvieled. See, Longhorn has multiple tiers of visual operation. If you can't handle the effects, it scales back to a lesser tier, going all the way down to an unaccelerated 2D inteface like that of Windows 2000. Aero is the top tier and is supposed to be, according to them, "photorealistic" and will be a new interface for Windows taking advantage of 3D acceleration. They said they don't want to reveal any of it until release because they fear it will be ripped off by competitors (a fair judgment considering all the ripped-off Start menus and taskbars on standard Linux desktops...).

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[Wade Tregaskis]

"One video showed two Notepads rotating around while still completely usable at the same time a video played in Media Player. Old apps will be compatible."

MacOS X 10.2, August 23, 2002.

http://www.atzenbeck.de/research/wildWindows/
http://homepage.cs.latrobe.edu.au/wjtregaskis/Rota ted%20Windows.sitx

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[colinrichardday]

And Microsoft shows a developer using emacs? And 10-15 what?

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[jsldub]

"They said they don't want to reveal any of it until release because they fear it will be ripped off by competitors (a fair judgment considering all the ripped-off Start menus and taskbars on standard Linux desktops...)."

Last I remembered, Apple was using the "menu on the desktop" interfase before windoze 95 copied off of them.

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[joebutton]

And Microsoft shows a developer using emacs? And 10-15 what?

I presume the developer was using 10-15 lines, although whether it was code or coke I can't say,

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[Furan]

That was Longhorn in 2003. The shell is not managed. WinFS is not shipping with the OS. And .net is not replacing win32.

Re:A very incomplete list off the top of my head

[Anonymous Coward]

(Score:3, Informative)

Informative!!?? Christ, man! you just modded a fucking advertisement!!! What a bunch of stooges!

Important correction

[Dystopian Rebel]

Companies don't think about the names at all when they sell it in other countries ... or at least they don't do a very good job.

~American~ companies don't think about it. European companies do. Have done so for a long time.

You do a good job of it when you recognize the need to do business with people who don't speak your language.

A "longhorn" is a kind of cattle popular in US cattle country, e.g. Texas. Means nothing to anyone else... except maybe the Masai in Africa, because some of their wildebeests have big headgear too.

How many Masai will be on the beta list is hard to say.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Jesus_666]

Obviously, Microsoft has accepted the fact that Windows is only good for one thing and that is gaming. LH will be the first step towards their new, exciting platform claled "PC 360", which will combine the simplicity of hacking the Windows internals with the versatility of the XBox and a user interface so full of eyecandy that even Steve Jobs' eyes will glaze over as he goes into a seizure. All that for just 499 USD (hardware not included)!

Re:can anyone tell me a single compelling reason..

[Jesus_666]

We're talking about Joe Average User; of course he has a cracked version. Non-cracked/non-corporate Windowses are only used by corporations...

who's taking bets

[Anonymous Coward]

whether the systray tooltip text bug lives on in bunghorn?

Already using it.

[JrbM689]

Funny, I have been using Longhorn for a few months now. Apple released it April 2005. -Braces for flames-

Re:can anyone tell me a single compelling reason..

[hilaryduff]

You'll either need to upgrade or risk having your machine be easily exploitable. i think you're right, but it should be "even more easily exploitable than if you kept it up to date with ms patches".. and with the obvious new issue of them letting through their newly acquired spyware software. this is why im moving to linux for internet use. windows is only going to become -worse- for 'average joe' not better.

Longohrn has IE7

[Anonymous Coward]

This Longhorn beta has IE7 included. Probably IE7 beta or something.

Can you say 'goodbye Firefox'?

Wow.

[Kingpin]

Quite impressive as XP obviously isn't even out of beta yet.

Re:Send them back.

[satoshi1]

Then they'd bad-mouth it and say how awesome their Ubuntu machine is.

Um. Yup. That's what'd I do. And I'm not even a Linux zealot ^_^

Copy Of Invite And Link To Screenshots

[monkeyman_67156]

Dear Microsoft Beta Tester,

We are pleased to offer you an early preview of Windows, Code-Name "Longhorn," by extending this invitation to join the Longhorn beta program. Your participation is completely voluntary. Longhorn Beta Program participants will preview software for the next generation of Windows as well as Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. If you choose to participate you will have the opportunity to provide Microsoft with feedback as we continue work on these exciting new releases.

What is Windows Code-Name "Longhorn"?

The next version of Windows, Code-Name "Longhorn," promises to be the most secure and intuitive Windows release to date. It delivers on the promise of allowing people to use their computers more effectively and confidently to achieve their goals and pursue their passions. It offers new tools to help protect the integrity of your system and your information, easier ways to find, visualize and organize your information, and provides better integration across applications, devices and systems.

Longhorn will provide advancements in the following key areas:
- A strong focus on the fundamentals of the operating system, including advancements in reliability, performance, deployment, and ease of use.
- Major improvements to help PC users to work smarter and provide exciting new experiences for home users.
- The next-generation developer platform to make it easier for developers to create breakthrough applications.

What you can expect if you choose to participate:

You will be notified by email this summer when the software becomes available to test. The beta software will be available via download. If you elect to receive mailed releases, only major milestone releases (Beta1, Beta 2, etc) will be sent to you.

Participants can expect access to Windows, Windows Server, the Windows Driver Kit the Platform Software Development Kit as well as Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003. We may make other software available as well, and it's important to note that some of the above software may not be available immediately after the program gets underway.

http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/computers/os/windows/l onghorn/lh5203/install/index.html

http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/computers/os/windows/l onghorn/lh5203/post/index.html

http://xerocool.innereyes.com/general/longhorn_520 3_screenshots.php

ed2k://|file|lh5203screens.rar|12596567|016AAB080E 47E029C881677C8CE15B56|h=5UIG4BNLHRXSATG6CZWF5WZV5 QR2Y3M2|/

Re:Copy Of Invite And Link To Screenshots

[djdanlib]

Of course there are advancements in "performance" if the minimum specifications are higher... mom and pop will have to buy a faster computer someday because their old one won't run it, so, they will notice some programs do things faster.

Re:can anyone tell me a single compelling reason..

[hilaryduff]

and THEY'RE mostly still using win2k hehe

trade invitation

[elmartinos]

Will trade 50 gmail invitations for one longhorn invitation

Re:trade invitation

[bcmm]

I'm wondering which of those is more worthless.

Some invitations you can from almost anyone or the right to use a buggy version of Windows XP...

Re:trade invitation

[Suddenly_Dead]

It's the fun of the testing. And with a new (Microsoft) OS, you're bound to find plenty of nice juicy bugs.

Re:trade invitation

[bcmm]

The "fun of testing" is what drove me to stop using Windows. And that last year, using a "stable" version of Windows XP.

When?

[Mad Ogre]

When can I get my burned copy of the "Corporate" edition?

VMware

[Low2000]

Can anyone tell me if current beta tests of longhorn run under VMware and if so, under what settings? Thanks

Re:VMware

[Nasarius]

An alpha version (~2 years ago?) installed and ran on VMware, albeit very very slowly.

Also true in anglophone nations

[dyfet]

Certainly that meaning does also exist in both Britian and the U.S., although I think its more commonly used in Britian; No, I am not suggesting that randy British wives cheat more often than American wives, just that the phrase for the husband "getting his horns" is more commonly used there.

Given the traditional meaning and use behind the phrase is that the husband has been shamed and/or humiliated publically by his wife, it does suggest some interesting ideas for interpreting what it means to receive Microsoft's longhorn.

But I preferred the steer comparison instead, for certainly Microsoft is a rancher that is all hat and no cattle.

Re:Also true in anglophone nations

[drsquare]

I live in Britain and I can confirm that the term does not exist here. I've never heard it used here at all. The above post is completely wrong.

'horn' generally means erection. This is good marketing from Microsoft.

Longhorn sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been testing Longhorn Beta for over a week now and wouldn't even consider it pre-Alpha. It is extremly buggy and anything but easy to use. I am afraid Longhorn was too little too late and even more people will jump on the Linux bandwagon before Longhorn could have matured enough to be considered for release by any serious developer.

color has already been picked

[Laebshade]

It's red.

Re:color has already been picked

[Anonymous Coward]

Or blue, depending on crash.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

It amazes me that you have such a strong opinion regarding something that you repeatedly admit to having neither experience with nor interest in.

Do I care what Granny B thinks about the 2006 model Mustangs? Hardly. Now shut the fuck up until someone asks about spooning with retards. Then you can let your experience shine.

Wait a minute...

[greenhybrid]

Wait a minute... I'm really confused. I thought we're still on Windows XP beta. You mean I'm running the _final_ version???

Re:Send them back.

[heinousjay]

Don't you dare disparage the feedback loop of the internet.

The entire system of reinforcement of already strongly held opinion is the most powerful factor in allowing our governmental overlords to consolidate their control over us - attempting to dismantle this system will result in powermongers losing their power, and we can't have that.

Once more with formatting...

[joebutton]

• Replacement of Win32 with.NET, even explorer.exe is running as managed code in the leaked betas. I can't even begin to list the advantages of this..NET is great, and with Mono making great strides in the language specification, any language will be able to compile intermediate.NET code, and code from different languages will operate together without a care.
• Avalon--presentation system that is completely hardware-accelerated and vector-based. One video showed two Notepads rotating around while still completely usable at the same time a video played in Media Player. Old apps will be compatible.
• XAML and other technologies--I've said it before, but it was just such a cool example. During an MSDN video (freely available at the site), the dev used Win32 Emacs to write a 10-15 XAML app that let him update his blog, complete with resized vector graphics and a video of moving clouds looping on the background of the window, all using the command-line.NET compiler.
• WinFS will still exist. They're just cutting a few features that will probably be re-introduced in a service pack anyway. WinFS is incredibly exciting--one WinFS dev went to the command line and did a query for certain employees within the last week, and it came up in less than a second. No more brute-force searching. Also, no file drives. And yet, they're retaining folder and drive structures in case you want to operate that way.
• Aero--this is their top-secret interface yet to be unvieled. See, Longhorn has multiple tiers of visual operation. If you can't handle the effects, it scales back to a lesser tier, going all the way down to an unaccelerated 2D inteface like that of Windows 2000. Aero is the top tier and is supposed to be, according to them, "photorealistic" and will be a new interface for Windows taking advantage of 3D acceleration. They said they don't want to reveal any of it until release because they fear it will be ripped off by competitors (a fair judgment considering all the ripped-off Start menus and taskbars on standard Linux desktops...).

Re:Once more with formatting...

[Anonymous Coward]

The start menu was adapted from the Apple menu.

Read your Shakespeare, too.

[FooAtWFU]

Go take a look at the nearest convenient copy of Much Ado About Nothing, particularly those with some analysis/background/fu in them, and read a little about cuckoldry. It's an archaic term in English these days, but....

if you can't get in the longhorn beta .....

[Anonymous Coward]

you can always try this.... bwahahaha

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Uber Banker]

When was the last time that Microsoft Excel got your blood pumping and you wanted to scream HELL YEA! THIS IS AWESOME!!

Yesterday! Excel is an excellend RAD environment in which to get quantitative analysis and presentation of data done.

It's not how much you pay...

[fejes]

It's the Total Cost of Ownership. The Beta is free, just to get you hooked.

Then the cost starts adding up:

Three all nighters to recreate the documents you lost when M$ Office 2010 crashes,

Two days of reformatting your system, when some scriptkiddy hijacks your computers using a new exploit to a new feature,

A week of trying to explain to your grandmother that the fifteen toolbars she's installed in the new version of IE really aren't protecting her from popups,

6 Months of cumulative lost CPU time when your 64 bit processor is kinda working with a mainly 32 bit OS,

and 2 hours on the phone talking with M$ support to convince them that the serial number they gave you should work to install the Beta in the first place.

But hey, at least you now have an RSS screensaver!

bad design

[cyfer2000]

I think there is a strong chance that we will close the window when we want to maximize the window. Because the two buttons on the right upper corner of window are too close.

And the Germans naturally understood

[expro]

When the allies after the Second World War delivered / dropped large numbers of packages for children, etc. marked "Gift"?

Yeah! Monkey Boy Steve!!!

[UrgleHoth]

Thats a blast from the recent past.
Here's a selection of videos

For kicks (or if you're bored), do a google search on monkey boy ballmer.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[ThyPiGuy]

With comments like that you can't be taken seriously. If you actually ever sat down and used excel to its full potential you would find that it has some incredible features. I use it everyday, and no, it has never once crashed. And yes, some times I do want to scream, hell yea this is awesome. The Microsoft bashing is getting to be a little excessive. Everyone else doing it doesn't make it cool or right. Get a grip.

whats the point?

[mike518]

Whats the point of longhorn? if their reports of cutting the fast searching, most of the earlier mentioned features as well as some security upgrades are true, then whats the point? This OS is sounding more and more like a rebuilt copy of XP with a nice interface and new icons... it sounds like a very shallow OS. Microsoft needs to get serious.

I realize that Apple has uniform hardware, but honestly why cant the largest software company in the world match or at least keep up with what Apple or Mozilla can do.

Upgrade to Windows for Workgroups

[Urusai]

Hardly anyone writes viruses for 16-bit windows nowadays, so Windows 3.11 is your best bet for rock-solid reliability, etc. Especially if you run it in Dosbox on Linux.

YAWN!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Next.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

So, your post can be summarized with your own words:

"No idea what this means."

... but it's damn fun to extrapolate, right? :-p

"I honestly can't believe your a developer"

*I* can honestly believe you're a zealot though, which doesn't really make your post too interesting.

Red Screen

[JCY2K]

Yay! Now we can see the red screen of death.

Longhorn not anywhere near ready

[Anonymous Coward]

The past couple days I've been playing around with Longhorn Beta and can only describe it as disasterous even for a Beta version. Besides the facts that I don't see much of the features Microsoft was hyping and that is it not very userfriendly I keep discovering new bugs all the time and it is extremely unstable. I am already fed up with the other versions of Windows and was hoping Longhorn Beta would be better but this is very disappointing and I think now I'll also switch to Linux.

Re:Longhorn not anywhere near ready

[DigitlDud]

You don't have the Longhorn beta because it hasn't been released yet. They're fixing bugs up to the release date.

Companion Press Release

[writermike]

RELEASE

ENHANCEWARE MEMBER ALLIANCE TO START BETA TESTING LONGHORN

July 9, 2005

The Enhanceware Member Alliance has announced they will start beta testing Longhorn.

"We can't wait to see what great ideas Microsoft plans to implement with Longhorn. We are confident we can make a great operating system even BETTER!!!!" said Dewey, chief architect for ABetterInternet.

Longhorn promises major advances in security.

"We can't wait to work with Microsoft to help them to help us get our applications on Longhorn users' systems," said Cheatum, reintegration/reinstallation vice-president for Qoologic.

Indeed, the EMA will be working directly with Microsoft development teams to provide the best experience the EMA can offer.

"Longhorn promises to be the best operating system for EMA members. We're confident the enhancements Microsoft will certainly add to Longhorn will provide wonderful unforseen benefits for EMA members," said Howe, spokesperson for Claria.

Re:Send them back.

[Adelbert]

I'm a complete Linux convert.

Programs like Amarok for music and Qalculate for my college work (for example) are far better than anything I ever used on Windows.

I have Mepis on my laptop and Ubuntu and Fedora on my desktop. I even have Linux on my PS2.

Looking at Longhorn, it looks ugly, incomplete and rushed. If I installed a copy, the first thing I'd do would be to install Firefox.

So why am I so desperate to be invited to the Beta program? Its like a compulsion. Maybe there are some "Winuser Anonymous" meetings I can go to...

That should be spelled "Glitz"

[Nick Driver]

With a "z". Please get your Yiddish correct.

Longhorn...

[Rihahn]

Let me be the first to welcome our Bovine Overlords. There, it has been said in this thread too.

lol modded down, but still not given 1 reason

[hilaryduff]

says it all, really.

You're contradicting yourself

[Dollar Sign TA]

You say that Win XP sucks, but then you also ask why anyone would upgrade. Pick one or the other.

Re:You're contradicting yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

If it sucks why would you want to buy another crappy OS from the same vendor?
perhaps he does want to upgrade but he wants a good reason to pay a high price for something that might not be any better.

Re:Send them back.

[JChung2006]

Amarok looks a lot like iTunes to me. Qalculate looks interesting enough if you're a math geek, I guess. Firefox is over-rated.

it crashed my hard drive.

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a new 100g drive and installed the beta. The hard drive stopped working. Don't install it unless you don't care about your hard drive.

I'm done with MS

[ajayrockrock]

Over the last couple of years I've been slowly migrating away from Windows. The only thing that keeps me dual-booting is DVD Shrink. I finally got that working in Wine (thanks to this guide on the Gentoo Forums...

Windows XP is the last version of Windows that I will ever use.

--Ajay

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Idarubicin]

AERO: a new design philosophy that delivers a compelling user experience....

Where I'm from, AERO is a chocolate bar....

No thanks. . .

[Coolnat2004]

I already have a copy of MS-DOS.

Does it have Trusted Computing (DRM) integrated?

[greylion3]

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

And will you be completely screwed if you have a Pentium D and a motherboard with a 945 (or 955) chipset?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx? NewsId=13912
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,121027,0 0.asp

One Word:

[nurb432]

Yuk.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

"Uh, its still marketspeak to a developer. If relearning a bunch of windows (keyword: windows) api's - when you know they'll be just as retarded as the last ones - sounds good to you, then you need to pick a new OS."

I'm sorry but you're a complete fucking retard. What would you like them to say for a short comment? If you want an in depth explanation this is not the place to look and it's clear that you don't have any interest in learning it for yourself.

"No idea what this means. Sorry I don't keep up on windows news. Sounds like shit though."

This proves how utterly stupid you are. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and yet you are so eager to hate it.

"I honestly can't believe your a developer, because such a person would be the first person to see through the shit and realize you've been promised the same things over and over since the begining of time. Well, maybe you write spyware."

I honestly can't believe there are people that are this dumb. You claim to see through the situation and yet you don't have the slightest clue about what you're talking about and you have admitted that in one of your previous statements. You are the dumbest fucking retard to post a Slashdot comment not under Anonymous Coward. If you're actually a developer I feel sorry for anyone that has to clean up the obvious shit code that only a retard like you could produce.

im cumming

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah

Re:Send them back.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Looking at Longhorn, it looks ugly, incomplete and rushed.

Whereas all Linux distros have those features already built in. Who says Linux isn't ready for the desktop? :)

Re:Send them back.

[Trinn]

Especially in the current development tree, amaroK goes far beyond iTunes. First off, it is far faster on comparable hardware (yeah I admit that is because the windows port of iTunes is TERRIBLE), second, while it has a collection, it is playlist-centric. This may sound like nit-picking but if you use it you will see the difference. Third, it is fully integrated with audioscrobbler, musicbrainz, etc. Fourth, it has built-in lyric and wikipedia fetching. Fifth, (yeah I should have used a bulleted list), it has support for storing its collection in a "real" database (My/PostgreSQL). If you try it though, be sure to get xine installed and configured right, b/c all the other engines just aren't as good. About the only thing it is missing is support in its "mobile device" tab for more than just the ipod kioslave.

It's not for consumers...

[DigitlDud]

On a more serious note, this beta is not really a consumer beta. It's intended for IT departments. Beta 1 is roughly 75% feature-complete. All the big core features are in there but it won't be until Beta 2 that the OS is feature-complete. What's left over is a lot of spiffy UI that consumers like so much.

Re:It's not for consumers...

[GraemeDonaldson]

Didya hear that *whoosh*? ;-)

Re:It's not for consumers...

[Paradise Pete]

Beta 1 is roughly 75% feature-complete.

So then when they call this a beta they really mean alpha.

Re:It's not for consumers...

[Hosiah]

"It's not for consumers..."

You could pretty much say the same for every MS product.

*grin, duck, run*

Re:It's not for consumers...

[DigitlDud]

In no way does beta imply that the product is feature-complete. And in software engineering, feature-complete rarely means there won't be additional features.

Re:It's not for consumers...

[Paradise Pete]

In no way does beta imply that the product is feature-complete.

Yes it does. In every way. Beta means "As far as we know, everything is done. It's passed our internal testing. Now we're going to do outside testing to make sure."
If it's not feature complete, then it's in alpha (at best). Beta is the last step before release. If you're still adding code, no way are you in beta.

Re:It's not for consumers...

[DigitlDud]

Well, if you want to have your own special definition of beta there you go. I'm just going with what the software engineering industry uses, since I work in it after all.

Re:It's not for consumers...

[Paradise Pete]

Well, if you want to have your own special definition of beta there you go. I'm just going with what the software engineering industry uses, since I work in it after all.

I have a hunch I've been in the software business a lot longer than you have, since I've been in it since it barely was an industry. And considering that on your website you call yourself a "computer science student," I don't think you can draw on your vast experience, either. In fact, it looks like you've been "in the industry" since around May 21st. The definition I gave is not "my own special" one. It is the proper meaning. If marketing pressures and compromised integrity have corrupted the word in the eyes of pie-eyed fresh Microsofties such as yourself, then you owe it to yourself to learn a little more about your chosen profession.

On your site you say "I'm completely new to developing commercial software," and yet somehow you are magically endowed with understanding of "the industry" and a word you only heard as a teenager, and which probably meant to you little more than "free stuff you can't buy yet."

Here's an article that might help explain the term a little better. I realize it was written way back in 1997, when you were maybe 13 or 14 years old, and so you'll probably not give it much credence. But if you're going to continue on "in the industry" it might do you some good to have an appreciation for its history.

You won't see it

[DigitlDud]

Longhorn does a great job stopping the most common causes of BSODs in XP, which are video drivers and virus scanners. It has kernel logic that lets it reinitalize a video driver if it faults without compromising the system. And as for virus scanners, they sandboxed in the kernel file system filters to protect against flaky software. And that's just the tip of the iceburg. When they're talking about reliability in Longhorn, they're serious.

Obligatory ham radio post

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! It's great to see a ham radio article on Slashdot. Thanks for posting.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Khuffie]

Why on earth does that website claim Aero bars are "unique to Canada"?

Re:Send them back.

[Staats]

Amarok is "far better" than anything on Windows? I'm a Linux user like you, but I've hardly found many programs on it I'd consider "far better" than anything on Windows.

I think folks around here get a bit overzealous over software that does the same thing I can do on Windows, but does it for free.

Why it's not like "Pimp my OS"

[SuperKendall]

With all the visual frosting MS is laying on Longhorn is turning into an episode of "Pimp my OS"

It would be like "Pimp my OS", but sadly Apple has patented the spinner.

Software patents strike again!

Not sure which way you mean it but...

[SuperKendall]

The thing is, XAML is the new Applet and AJAX is the new Javascript (yes I know it IS javascript, but sort of working at a higher level than before) with pretty much the same path before them.

I'm not sure what you meant by your ominous comment, but in 3-5 years I see a Microsoft with 75% desktop (split between Linux taking over corporate desktops and OS X intruding from the consumer end, not that there's not crossover as well) with small devices proliferating and taking up consumer market share as well.

Nothing in Longhorn (or even not in Longhorn) really makes me think any differently of the future ahead.

Re:Not sure which way you mean it but...

[Jose-S]

The thing is, XAML is the new Applet and AJAX is the new Javascript (yes I know it IS javascript, but sort of working at a higher level than before) with pretty much the same path before them.

Applets are a good reference point to discuss this. Why couldn't applets compete with HTML/Javascript, considering that they have access to the entire Java API and all the capabilities of Java (with security restrictions of course) ? There are many reasons, such as the fact that they didn't a good job integrating it in the browser so it seems a bit broken. But consider also that applets require a programmer with some knowledge of object-oriented programming to build the GUI, compile, package, and deploy it. After making a change, repeat the steps. HTML can be written by virtually anyone (most web designers I pressume don't know much about programming in general) and does not require compilation or packaging. The thing is, XAML is closer to HTML than to applets, notwithstanding mistakes MS has made or will make regarding its usability. But in general, XAML doesn't need to have the shortcomings of applets. Note that there are many people who seem eager to start developing webapps in XAML -- so it will happen.

Nw in 3D

[SuperKendall]

I don't know, I htink the BSOD has been replaced by the AERO XAML Reaper of Doom, a 3D tranlucent reaper who flaots to the forefront and tears your documents up in front of you, pixel by pixel.

Thank's to new levels of integration with MSDN. every system crash will also now randomly delete email from your Hotmail account, as well as from a few other random Hotmail users for good measure! You can tell some people have had early access to the beta.

This is Slashdot.

[James A. D. Joyce]

It doesn't matter whether or not what you're posting makes sense. Just so long as it bashes "EVIL EMPIRE MICRO$$$OFT", you'll get modded up!

Re:This is Slashdot.

[Living WTF]

> It doesn't matter whether or not what you're posting makes sense. Just so long as it bashes "EVIL EMPIRE MICRO$$$OFT", you'll get modded up So you figured out how the system works here, but you failed to apply it? Do you work at Microsoft?

Codeweavers

[bach37]

DVD Shrink installs and works fine in the current release codeweavers, too btw if anyone is interested. (Yes, I know codeweavers IS wine.) Anyone know of a Linux equivalent program though, that will rip then immediately make a dvd iso- with no compression, or loss of quality by encoding?

And so it begins...

[petrus4]

I hope the final product is infinitely more exciting than the alphas, screenshots, and so on I've already seen are...for Microsoft's sake, anywayz.

I've made the comment before that one way or another, Longhorn is going to represent Microsoft's last stand. I give it around an 80% chance that whatever they release, (unless it's darn near miraculous) it's not going to be able to either stem the tide of defections to Linux, or force existing Windows users to upgrade. Then there are the usual issues of not being able to completely reinvent the wheel because of needing to maintain backward compatibility. Windows needs to be rebuilt from the ground up...but that is the one thing they can't do.

If Longhorn is a failure, (and as I've said, for numerous reasons I think it's virtually inevitable that it will be) it's going to be extremely interesting to see what Microsoft tries to do next.

Re:And so it begins...

[hyu]

Clearly, like so many here, you are not familiar with the law of the masses. People will not defect when they have no idea something exists. They have their computers, they know their Windows, and they will upgrade and spend their money if they think it is the way to go.

Re:And so it begins...

[petrus4]

They might not know about Linux, but they do know about their existing versions of Windows. Chances are they know them fairly well, in fact. Parts of the residential market will be forced to upgrade, perhaps...Gamers want new versions of DirectX, and Microsoft can decree that new versions of DirectX will only work with Longhorn, in order to force their hand. Ditto for future versions of Office.

The corporate customer however has no such compulsion...and in fact, given Microsoft's pricing model, the incentive is far greater not to upgrade than to do so...because as well as licensing fees, there will also be retraining and hardware costs as well. Thus, for many continuing to use their existing versions of Windows is likely to be far more appealing.

Re:Windows 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

The code between the system is not as close as the last post would have you realize, but there is very little difference. You can convert Windows XP and 2003 between workstation and server modes. You can install userland utilities under XP (such as Active Directory Server - it is a binary).

Microsoft is actually very sloppy on procedural requirements for admin the system and therefore is very easy to circumvent (if someone actually wanted to). The problem is that any server that runs a Windowing UI is wasting resources and therefore not under real consideration of prime server markets.

If they want to make a real impact in the server market they should release the code under a BSD license for free. After that line it with service support contracts. An opensource or even free Windows 2003 server is likely the only way that they can make any impact on most of the market. They give the software away to universities, why not to the rest of the market. Maybe instead of $999 to feed someone ego, they could release it as a free download or a $20 package on DVD.

Re:Windows by any other name, and ... WRONGHORN!

[pallmall1]

Somebody modding out there hates the term Wronghorn .

Maybe I should call it MS Wronghorn for the Microsoft schills out there.

They are the same

[Anonymous Coward]

This is old school debate. The original poster said advancedserver and professional versions are the same. No one said Windows 2000 and XP was the same.

DNS, DHCP, ActiveDirectory are just bundles that can be installed separately once you have promoted the server to Advanced. Doesn't matter what order they ship in or what bundle they ship with.

It is all the same! Im appauled in disbelieve so many people are naive enough to think there is actually a difference.

Re:They are the same

[man_of_mr_e]

How precisely do you plan to install all that other software that doesn't ship with your OS?

The original poster said that the *ONLY* difference between the system was a regsistry key. That's patently false in many ways that anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could see.

Is Fedora Core and Red Hat Advanced Server the same thing with only a configuration file difference? No, it's the software that comes with it that makes the difference.

Re:They are the same

[DarkEdgeX]

The original poster said that the *ONLY* difference between the system was a regsistry key. That's patently false in many ways that anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could see.

And yet, as per usual with someone making your defense, you're interestingly unable to provide a single example to prove your point.

I believe a "kthx" is in order. Have a nice day.

Re:They are the same

[man_of_mr_e]

I gave a ton of examples already. Simply saying I didn't is a bit orwellian, don't you think? Read up a few levels.

Re:They are the same

[Anonymous Coward]

Try install the Norton Antivirus SystemWorks set of 2002-4. There were a great deal of tools that did not run on win2000 advanced servr. I can speak from experience that it installs fine into 'professional mode' as soon as the registry key was modded.

Im laughing as there is still no change between win2003 advanced servr and professional. And everyone is siding with microsoft marketing, and the original poster gets marked troll.

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[ThyPiGuy]

And then I get modded Funny. Great.

You think you have Mad Skillz!?

[hyu]

I can top that. I ran the first release of XP on my old Hitachi laptop with 133MHz processor, 3GB hdd, and 92MB of RAM, while also dualbooting with Red Hat 7.1. And I did this when I was 14.

The computer actually ran quite well, and I used it for months. Ended up dropping it down a flight of stairs and busted the power supply. It'll charge its mostly dead battery for fifteen seconds, which lets it shut itself off right when it hits the XP boot screen.

Re:You think you have Mad Skillz!?

[Krankheit]

Sorry about what happened to your machine. The same thing happened to my older 50 MHz 16 colour LCD 486 Zenith laptop that runs NetBSD (it has 16 MB RAM.) It was dropped down the stairs twice, knocked off a desk onto a ceramic tile floor, and slammed into my car's dash board when someone went out in front of me at 40 MPH. Everything works fine, except the battery has been dead for many years, so I have to run it plugged in. Zenith may have made some bad CRT televisions, but the Zenith data systems laptop was solid. After the crash the case has a small (one centimetre long) crack on the back edge, but it is still good. I no longer use it now that I have my 233 MHz Dell Latitude with 64 MB of RAM. It came with Windows XP, which ran fine. I have Slackware Linux running on it now though. It has also been very reliable (but has never been dropped like the other was) ever since I had to take it apart eight times last year to fix various problems (keyboard/mouse not working, screen flicker, etc.) With enough memory, anything should run. Of course, CPU cache helps alot. My Pentium 133 MHz IBM server with NetBSD (as backup machine for 300 MHz PII running FreeBSD) crawls if I disable CPU cache in the CMOS setup.

Re:You think you have Mad Skillz!?

[DrSkwid]

when I was 13 I used to type in op codes using hex, not even an assembler.

so stfu n00b =)

Re:Sounds like a PR firm made the info page here..

[Anonymous Coward]

AMEN The creeps with the Microsoft Excel bashing need to get a life and learn how to use it.

north of redmond...

[Imazalil]

'Whistler north of Redmond' is like saying that New York is east of the Pacific, or that Mexico is south of the North Pole.

Re:Windows 2003

[DrSkwid]

> The problem is that any server that runs a Windowing UI is wasting resources and therefore not under real consideration of prime server markets.

Primer Server Market people need to go to computer school to learn what an interrupt is.

Re:Send them back.

[Adelbert]

I agree. There are few programs on Linux that are "far better" than Windows programs. But I do genuinely prefer Amarok to anything I used on Windows. I dunno, maybe I was missing out on something big, but I really think Amarok is awesome, mostly for reasons another responder said.

Have you used Amarok? If not, try it immediately.

6 words (and a comma):

[DrSkwid]

REMOTE EXPLOITS, OUT OF THE BOX

but you are right, nothing is 100%

but I just had to laugh, all but the syscall article were published before 2003 !!

> OpenBSD is limited, period!

You say that like it's a bad thing.

> OpenBSD is not as flexible, ubiquitous, & powerful overall vs Windows Server 2003.

some of us call that a feature (except your erroneous "powerful" observation, unless, of course, you have a metric for that - no? thought not)

APK - give it up or I might have to go plan9 on you

Re:6 words (and a comma): APK REPLY

[Anonymous Coward]

"some of us call that a feature" - DrSkwid (118965) on Monday July 11, @11:30AM

Most won't! I know I wouldn't & neither would the 90% of the world's computers running Windows based Os either: versatility is why! You also said:

"Give it up, or I'll go Plan9 on you" - DrSkwid (118965) on Monday July 11, @11:30AM

Well, then I'd go DOS on you! LOL... since you think that having less versatility is a feature!

(Horses & buggies vs. automobiles anyone?)

Hell, And? You JUST DID basically give up man!

First, You're avoiding points I made:

Especially saying being limited as OpenBSD is by comparison to Windows Server 2003, is a feature?

Yea right! (sarcasm)

Newflash - Operating Systems? They're platforms for hardwares & softwares, for jobs or purposes the end user has. Being less functional or less ubiquitous/versatile is NOT a feature, it's an inferiority. In essence, you're saying "a cripple makes a better sprinter"... great logic that! NOT!

OpenBSD's a limited OS by comparison to Windows Server 2003 featureset-wise and moreso in WIndows' wealth of surrounding softwares and hardwares it runs! OpenBSD's truly LIMITED, & thus? Not as good.

Heck, I don't even HAVE to argue this anymore with you:

You also only now (only after I point out a truckload of them) also already admitted there's holes in OpenBSD, especially remote ones!

Though I point out others which you avoided, you admitted this:

"but you are right, nothing is 100%" - DrSkwid (118965) on Monday July 11, @11:30AM

OpenBSD has holes/vulnerabilities, ones I pointed out that existed both in the past AND presently:

---

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=363 731&seqNum=7&rl=1

"Despite its many features, systrace has a number of limitations that bear mentioning. First, it lacks a facility to specify that you can permit once for a system call, such as binding to a socket. This can allow an attacker to recycle a system call, potentially at elevated privilege.

Second, system calls have no exclusive or. For example, an application might be permitted to open a file or a device, but not both. This weakness could ultimately be leveraged by an attacker who seeks to do more than a program was intended to do.

Lastly, the parent process has no control over spawned processes. For example, if you allow /bin/sh to be executed, you cannot control it beyond its own systrace policy. One way to get around this limitation is to specify a policy for the child process to inherit if it is to be less liberal than the normal system policy. This would be done via systrace -i."

---

More come out ALL the time too, & for ALL Os'...

In fact, in ths quote from you, after I had to point out a zillion holes in your supposedly IMPENETRABLE and no need to secure it at all OS, OpenBSD!

---

"but you are right, nothing is 100%"

---

Damn right I am, because my man, I truly DO KNOW that no OS is currently perfectly secure, & so do you... which is why I could not understand your first reply to me! I was showing others how to make Windows more secure, & you busted on me for it!

In fact, In reply to that from you? I also pointed out several exploits that are currently STILL there on OpenBSD that are ways, or potential ways into it. And, if I could NOT get in, or got impatient? I'd just freeze the damn thing dead.

You asked for "metrics" in your other reply?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155314&op=Repl y&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=201&mode=thread&p id=13033258

Date: Jan 28, 2005.

Re:6 words (and a comma): APK REPLY

[DrSkwid]

it has the features I want in my operating system

Active Directories
MSN Messenger
Windows Media Player
Solitaire
Cdonts
IIS

are all stuff I can happily live without

I can get out the OpenBSD CDs, install a box and happily and without concern attach it directly to the internet and be safe in the knowledge that I won't be rooted, all inside 20 minutes.

That is my favourite feature.

Wow, you cite the limitation of systrace as a metric as to why Windows is more Powerful than OpenBSD. hahahahaha

go away now please

Re:6 words (and a comma): APK REPLY #4

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you can live without those apps, others cannot.

E.G.-> Active Directory & others like it (e.g. NDS on Novell) are excellent features!

Makes administration on HUGE networks much simpler!

E.G.=> By comparison to older NT-model domains? I will take NDS style or AD style mgt. anytime... I am sure most network techs/admins WILL agree here on that account!

I also cite the fact that systrace is an opening into an OS you claim is impenetrable first of all:

You seem to have missed the fact an attacker could leverage systrace vulnerabilities on OpenBSD to this day, or you refuse to admit your OS of choice is open to attack though you SAID it's "impenetrable":

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=363 731&seqNum=7&rl=1 [informit.com]

"Second, system calls have no exclusive or. For example, an application might be permitted to open a file or a device, but not both.

This weakness could ultimately be leveraged by an attacker who seeks to do more than a program was intended to do."

Now, THAT? Is an "admission of failure" via evasion & selective quoting... lol, I am getting that last laff here & I know it. So will anyone else reading this! Folks here can read you know!

And you brush aside the fact that OpenBSD does not run as much software, right there in your list above (and that's only a fraction of what is possible) which users use to do various tasks &/or jobs!

Plus, OpenBSD doesn't run a fraction of what Windows Server 2003 can in peripheral hardwares!

I guess in your world, horses & buggies are still superior to HumVees for example... lol!

APK

P.S.=> I think that, due to your viewpoint vs. my own (I suppose yours has merit in your point of view but I hope you can say the same of my own)? We will "have to agree to disagree" etc./et all... apk

Re Windows Server 2003 default Server, it's Pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, man, take the time & "drink in and digest this" like I said before - we've got diff. viewpoints. Yours apparently being "less is more" vs. mine as "MORE = MORE" (I can see your point, but my use patterns DON'T mesh with yours. This is my avoiding name calling as you did to me calling me deluded & such. I don't have to resort to that. I'll keep it fact based... & win! lol...)

Fair enough? Here we go, your SECOND mistake here already (in addition to calling my list an "admission of failure" showing folks how to REALLY secure a Windows rig. That's not failure - it's helping out! I think your OS being weak running less hardware & software than Windows Server 2003 is an admission of failure. Easy to secure a house with less doors in it etc. so-to-speak, but I showed holes in your OS anyhow, alot of them, some current, some not, but point IS there).

"Admit it, your OS of choice is crap" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Sunday July 10, @04:10AM

Never, and here is why, for MANY a reason, including mistakes you JUST MADE regarding Windows Server 2003 in fact being "just a server"... bad mistake.

ANYHOW, your mistake about Windows Server 2003:

"All the rest is coping with your skewed notions of power and flexibilty. Windows 2003 SERVER ergo peripherals are small fry, it's a server to do servery things" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Tuesday July 12, @09:51AM

Uhm, you obviously have not used Windows Server 2003 then:

Because if you had? You'd know, from its install, it's NOT like that!

Above all, imo, & doubtless others here reading:

You should not talk and call my views skewed (or call me deluded for helping others secure their rigs), when right off the bat? You're showing ignorance of what is skewed once more, like you did about being absolutely 100% secure & admitting nothing is!

First off, Lesson time:

Windows Server 2003, & it's DEFAULT install?

Is workstation! AND, how I use it.

(I.E.-> It's NOT like Windows 2000 Advanced Server installing IIS, etc. right off the bat. You add what you need as you need it, and ONLY what you need, later.)

Get current with that info. first of all man! You've showed the "skewed" view (talking out your you-know-what, right there) about my OS of choice immediately in that post.

ALSO, due to the systrace vulnerability I noted that is THIS YEAR and current (with others, some out of date some not), showed OpenBSD is not the "magically secure automatic security panacea formula" impression I got from you... AND, like I point out in my list? BE SURE YOUR OS IS PATCHED but also? YOUR APPS!

Browsers? They're notorious for holes. If you think remoted & run by impersonation (are you a coder? If so, you know what I mean here, it is possible to run an app as Administrator/Root by privelege escalation, & REMOTELY, not just locally, via holes in your apps my man... sorry to disillusion you there! Think I could not use a hole like that via a buggy browser & do it? LOL... absolutely!)

Anyways - Were I you?

I would apply @ least a NAT true stateful inspection firewalling router, packet filtering, & more (whatever you can apply from my list including javascript advice & the BLOCKING HOSTS FILES (which BSD of any type can use as well as other Tcp/IP bearing OS' universally & HOSTS can block out sites known for those bogus scriptbomb ads) I posted because iirc, your OS runs that too, & it runs ANYWHERE) because hate to tell you this:

New things popup ALL the time #1, & new threats ARE coming (rootkits, more on that later)... layered security, & ANY security pro will tell you this?

IS THE RIGHT IDEA!

"That list is something akin to an admission of failure" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Sunday July 10, @04:10AM (#13025217)

Admission of failure?

My man, It's a simply a comprehensive summary list of the URL (which has the details) on how to secure a system on Windows against spyware/virus/m

Re:6 words (and a comma): APK REPLY #4

[DrSkwid]

I think we'd better agree to disagree

I'm sorry I called you deluded, it's just the fun of bravado and certainly nothing personal =)

I'm not even that in love with OpenBSD tbh. it's just the better of a bad bunch. And it does my things the way I want them doing. I guess my desktop would fill you with horror =)

http://www.proweb.co.uk/~matt/basic_screen.gif

Superusers are a design mistake, forgivable for the 60s/70s but just plain idiotic now. Almost everything else stems out of that crippling blow. Privilege escalation is the curse.

Windows has it's own design problems built out of trying to bring a rich set of features to the user/developer. Perhaps the biggest problem was the late incorporation of HTML into the UI due to the failure of the pre-HTTP MSN.

Now both camps are dealing with the horrors of backwards compatibility and Windows ubiquitous monoculture gives them this massive inertia.

You can keep your HumVee. They don't even fit on our roads so if you ever come here you'd better hire a horse !

Re:6 words (and a comma): APK REPLY #LAST

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155314&thresho ld=1&commentsort=0&tid=201&mode=thread&cid=1304523 3

Re Windows Server 2003 default Server, it's Pro (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 12, @02:53PM

----

Said ALL I had to right there, before you did in fact, & I think we'll have to disagree, but seems you see points I did there now suddenly!

I.E. -> It seems that you made the points you're NOW making here I am replying to, BUT only AFTER I pointed out what I did in that URL above which was posted before your last reply!

Note the dates? Odd... lol!

SUMMATION OF THE URL ABOVE/CRITICAL POINTS:

"All the rest is coping with your skewed notions of power and flexibilty. Windows 2003 SERVER ergo peripherals are small fry, it's a server to do servery things" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Tuesday July 12, @09:51AM

Uhm, you obviously have not used Windows Server 2003 then:

Because if you had? You'd know, from its install, it's NOT like that!

Windows Server 2003, & it's DEFAULT install?

Is workstation! AND, how I use it.

(I.E.-> It's NOT like Windows 2000 Advanced Server installing IIS, etc. right off the bat. You add what you need as you need it, and ONLY what you need, later.)

Get current with that info. first of all man! You've showed the "skewed" view (talking out your you-know-what, right there) about my OS of choice immediately in that post.

ALSO, due to the systrace vulnerability I noted that is THIS YEAR and current (with others, some out of date some not), showed OpenBSD is not the "magically secure automatic security panacea formula" impression I got from you...

AND, like I point out in my list? BE SURE YOUR OS IS PATCHED but also?

YOUR APPS!

ESPECIALLY Browsers! Why, well... because the "local hole" you said I found, can be a REMOTE one, easily!

Browsers: They're notorious for holes, especially remote execution ones: See MS latest bugfix, & FireFox 1.05 is on it too!

NOW, If you think remoted & run by impersonation is not something the SysTrace weakness I noted is not something that can happen? Well... are you a coder? If so, you know what I mean here!

I.E.-> It is possible to run an app as Administrator/Root by privelege escalation, & REMOTELY, not just locally, via holes in your apps my man...

If you thought otherwise?

WELL, sorry to disillusion you there!

(Think I could not use a hole like that via a buggy browser & do it? LOL... absolutely!)

Anyways - Were I you?

I would apply @ least a NAT true stateful inspection firewalling router, packet filtering, & more!

(Really, whatever you can apply from my list including javascript advice & the BLOCKING HOSTS FILES)

Your OPEN (literally) BSD (freebsd or openbsd) of any type can use HOSTS & java/javascript as well as other Tcp/IP bearing OS' universally!

AND? HOSTS can block out sites known for those bogus scriptbomb ads!

Your OS runs that too, & it runs ANYWHERE that uses TcpIP (in HOSTS, in fact that's where MS got their IP stack, the BSD world) because hate to tell you this: Javascript/Java is another one that runs on TONS of Os' as well, & is what (or part of what) malicious adbanners use! The browser (apps to patch) are the gateway!

See, new things popup ALL the time #1, & new threats ARE coming (rootkits, more on that later)...

SO, my ideas on layered security in my list you busted on (& ANY security pro will tell you this)?

IS THE RIGHT IDEA!

"That list is something akin to an admission of failure" - by DrSkwid (118965) on Sunday July 10, @04:10AM (#13025217)

Admission of failure?

My man, It's a simply a comprehensive summary list o