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Unsealed SCO Email Reveals Linux Code is Clean
rm69990 writes "In a recently unsealed email in the SCO vs. IBM case, it appears that an outside consultant, hired by SCO in 2002, failed to find copyright violations in the Linux Kernel. This was right around the time Darl McBride, who has before been hired by litigious companies as CEO, was hired. It appears that before SCO even began its investigation, they were hoping to find a smoking gun, not believing that Linux could possibly not contain Unix code. Apparently, they ignored the advice of this consultant."
...to pay your $699 licensing fee you cock-smoking teabaggers.
Then you draw a needle on the dial that points to BULLSHIT.
Then whenever you hear anybody on the TV who has the word 'CHIEF' or 'EXECUTIVE' or 'OFFICER' in their title, you point the box at the TV and there's your answer.
(also works with radio, newspapers and the Internet. Patent Pending of course.)
It appears that before SCO even began its investigation, they were hoping to find a smoking gun, not believing that Linux could possibly not contain Unix code. Apparently, they ignored the advice of this consultant."
Gee, that sounds familiar. Seems to be a popular strategy in both business and *cough*cough*cough, government these days. Seriously though, this is a model that does appear to have some traction in a variety of fields in that if you press your case hard enough, and you convince enough of the right people, there is ground to be gained from simply sticking to your guns no matter what the reality happens to be. In my business, when you have a theory, you design an experiment to test it and collect data in an attempt to disprove that theory. When the data supports the theory, then you are golden. The way NOT to run business, science (or government) is to come up with a theory (or a desire) and then try to fit the evidence to support what you want. This of course is exactly what has happened with the SCO case, a couple of other business debacles in the news recently and interestingly, in the hunt for WMD in Iraq.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Is this really still news?
--
Toby
...and you know it
Look, this whole process is retarded, but hiring a consultant to investigate doesn't necessarily mean the end.
Also, while SCO's PR has talking about Linux (after IBM started implying it), this was ORIGINALLY a lawsuit about the derivative works from a company working with a Unix license that IBM bought. It was originally a breach of contract case, not a "Linux is a derivative work" case, it just got weird when they started flailing around.
Alex
Wouldn't Darl McBride have been under the obligation to reveal this information to his shareholders?
Is it legal that he didn't?
not believing that Linux could possibly not contain Unix code. Is there any more awkward way that could have been expressed?
Probably not. This whole thing is still going to take another year or so to play out. Not the SCO has a snowball's chance; but they'll keep going at least until their "prepaid" lawyers run out on them. Hopefully that'll happen before they get to court. Actually, hopefully not, as if they were to quit halfway through the court procedings the judge would probably ask the bar association to investigate them. F*cking lawyers, er rather, THESE f*cking lawyers.
put the what in the where?
Yet more proof that the Googlebomb calling SCO "litigious bastards" is correct.
Maybe now the case will be dismissed...
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
As SCO continues to desintigrate, it is import to keep an eye those responsible who worked there as they try to find their way back into the respectable computing world.
No one should be able to participate in a sickeningly slezy shakedown like SCO tried to pull off and just wash their hands and pretend it never happended.
Of course not everyone associated with SCO is guilty of sleaze but keeping an eye out for key SCO people and either making sure they don't get hired or at least making it known to companies that would think of hiring the scumbags it isn't worth the bad press/karma.
Bwahahaha! Hopefully this revelation will lead to a bunch of lawsuits against the directors and officers of SCO for willful malfeasance. This may be the opening that allows them to pierce the corporate veil and go after them personally. Darl is not the only one richly deserving of jail time.
Now that it looks like their case is beyond salvation, and suppose they were to lose their lawsuit and become financially void, what would happen to the UnixWare and OpenServer codebases? Would they be transferred to one of TSG's debitors?
Indeed, if IBM did happen to acquire the rights to UnixWare and OpenServer via such means, then it would be very helpful to the community if they released the source code to both products. Of course, Novell's involvement may sticky things up a bit. But it would be great to have the systems available to the community.
Being a former sysadmin of SCO systems, I remember them fondly from the late 1980s and early 1990s. With some community-based work, they could easily be made useful again today. On older systems they would fly, thus making obsolete hardware usable again.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
But not unpossible.
Infuriate left and right
...as much as I'd love for SCO to get their arses handed to them, I wouldn't get excited until their suit is actually thrown out of court.
Ron dies in chapter 9 of book 7.
like it has a SCOballs chance in hell of succeeding, we can all go back to real work.
Congrats to everyone at Grocklaw.
I don't think it'll stop the lawsuit inmediatly, since a single source's opinion isn't necessarily the truth. However, it WILL increase the general bitching against SCO
Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
Tune in the news and pay attention to the video images of Bernie Edwards going to jail for 25 years. Now, go down to your local "adult" store and buy some lube in preparation for your own date with justice.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
...and in other news, kitten naps.....
Hi:
And if SCO does get nailed with starting a frivolous law suit, more goes to the lawyers. Last year there was an excellent article in Foreign Affairs (www.foreignaffairs.org) that mentioned how the number of lawyers in the US economy was turning into an economic disadvantage: four per cent of the world's population and 80 per cent of the world's lawyers mean they have to manufacture work for themselves.
Oh well. Let the shouting begin.
If SCO should have known that there was no Unix code in Linux and they sent letters to 1500 companies threatening court action and trying to convince them to buy $699 licenses, then were they not committing fraud?
We also have the possibility that they deliberately inflated the stock price with their claims. Again, if they knew their claims were false, were they not committing a fraud?
I'm glad I'm not them.
I talked at length with that guy from the Toqueville institute. I tried and tried to explain that Linux is just a kernel, only a small part of an OS, and that anyone with a decent CS education is taught everything they need to know to develop a kernel as simple as the first Linux kernel that Linus wrote. I explained that Linux is a social phenomenon more than a technical achievement, because, conceptually, kernels just aren't such a big deal (although debugging them is a hassle, well handled by the 'many eyes' of the community).
No matter what I said, he was not able to grasp it. He just could not believe that one guy could write an OS kernel. But he really didn't understand what a kernel is either, so that was a bit of a barrier also. The fact that various CS professors had come out and said the same thing didn't faze him.
Darl McBride is just another non-technical businessman who thinks that operating systems are black magic that only huge teams of people can write. His reasoning leads him to believe that if "one guy" did it, but one guy really couldn't have done it, then he must have copied it. Pure, simple, logical, but unsound in that it completely doesn't account for just how simple or complex a kernel is.
Just like how some people can't possibly understand how a piston engine works, some people aren't cut out to grok OS kernels. Darl just doesn't have the brains for it. (Plus, his primary motivation is to make money, not actually UNDERSTAND anything.)
Don't know. Was there surprise on Gates' and Ballmer's faces?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
1) Endless gloating about holiness of Linux
2) I'm Darl McBride, you insensitive...
3) Bush couldnt find WMD, like McBride couldn't find violations
4) ? 5) Profit!!!
http://efil.blogspot.com/
Here, I'll do it for you:
"Does SCO make any real products anymore?"
"SCO's lying. Was this news to anyone?"
'And why did Darl tell the world, and Congress, that because Linux was written by volunteers, there was no way to know if it was clean code, that it was a "free-for-all", that "there's not a policeman to check in the code at the Linux kernel level to ensure that there are not violations", when they already knew that it presented very clear evidence of purity?'
Because Darl is a lying cunt, that's why.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
the word "for" and the vars "i" & "j" were among the code.. it must be copied..
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Maybe, having to put "Sank Sunbeam and The SCO Group through excessive litigation" on his resume, and a special "Ambulance Chaser" license plate on his car.
Should I be happy because someone ignored a consultant or sad that they caused so much trouble by doing so? Decisions, decisions...
That is all.
Nice try, but Bezos already patented it...
I believe the way the open-source community works right now has some fundamental flaws that have got to be addressed. We need to address how this open-source intellectual property is developed, routed, and sold. Thousands of software developers send code to contribute to open-source projects -- but there isn't a protective device for the customer using the software to ensure they're not in violation of the law by using stolen code.
In tracking this roller coaster, it hadn't occurred to me till just now that the overall target isn't Linux itself, rather the Open Source movement. I see more concern in this statement about Open Source development, than I do about Linux code infringement.
Or is Open Source questioning just an added bonus tacked onto SCO claims.
My Thoughts, Kyndig
Why would someone bother doing that?
Because sometimes evidence in court cases is provided in printed form.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Notice the forwarded email from Michael Davidson to Reg Broughton contains the email header
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I).
That is very interesting, indeed. Why would SCO be using Windows 98 machines internally? Indeed, one would expect them to be using SCO UnixWare.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
quote: "The way NOT to run business, science (or government) is to come up with a theory (or a desire) and then try to fit the evidence to support what you want." Is exactly what those 'Intelligent Design' idiots do. They have their theory (desire, really) and they try to find anecdotes to support it. Hell with all the evidence that shows its all BS.
I am SHOCKED! Shocked, I tell you!!!
Where is the surprise. Everyone at the beginning said that there was nothing wrong with it.
What i find particularly funny, is the fact that Darl did not even make up the idea himself, but rather he got it from someone elsed in the company. He is nothing but someone who thought it could not be true, eventhough there was proof to the contrary.
As PJ tells you, there were articles out that cleared Linux of all copyright infringement before, as there was none. This has just shown all of use Open Source users, that our code is clean, and that they can not take us down. Instead of doing what they had hoped, generate business, they are now losing it.
Linux has an awesome way to get new code into the kernel. It also has been proven now that it is a system that works. The code is clean from any infringement, as even Darl and all of his lawyers can not find any infringement in the code. Only some stuff that looks alike just because there is no other way to name the variables. No clearcut copyright infringement.
Darl, do us all a favor. Apologize to the world, and then take your company and shove it up your ass. After that, eat your lawsuit, as IBM is going to bury you with it, and you are not getting out of it unless you can eat your way out.
cat
There's just one word that sums up this whole SCO ordeal:
LMFAO!!
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
This means the SCO lawsuit has just crossed the line from "Completely clueless lawsuit" to "Intentional frivilous lawsuit". Doesn't ignoring this email leave SCO wide-open to a counterclaim by IBM for restraint of trade? SCO may be right about one thing -- this may very well be 4 billion dollar lawsuit. The problem is, it looks like the billions in damage claims may very well be awarded to IBM, not SCO.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Thats the sound of SCO getting the smackdown. Let's here it some more.I hope the entire company goes under.So sad when you can't make money from quality product yourself.Hmm company in trouble equals sue everyone in sight.ya thats the ticket!!!!
Virtually every news item posted here can start a flamewar. Amidst the Microsoft bashing, several voices will point out good things they have done. Praise or bash the iPod, and you will generate a response. It's nice to see that there is one thing that unites us all, liberal/conservative, Apple fan/hater, and that is the universal agreement that Darl is scum.
There are very few universally accepted truths in this world, and it is nice to be reminded of them once in a while.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Because it was printed off and scanned into a computer (and no, it is not fake).
The document was submitted in printed form as part of the discovery process. The clerk of the court then took the document and scanned it in as a PDF, allowing an image of the original (as opposed to an OCR'ed copy) to be stored electronically. This version of the document is the one released to the public on demand. Doing it this way is
than trying to photocopy originals of all of these documents.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
When Microsoft buys SCO and takes over the lawsuit they will be able to tie this up in court indefinately and they have the giant pot of gold to fund it. Truth will have no matter when the sued companies cave or go bust. It will be a sad era indeed!
But the real question is: will he actually spend 25 years in jail? That's doubtful.
Now there is an iteresting question. I think that you have to do at least 1/3 of your sentince before you can be put up for parole. He's something like 65 now, so when he gets out, he will be past his seventies.
I think the judge only gave him 25 years because of his age. There is a fair chance he will die in prison.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Yeah, I got a friend named Guido who sells "insurance policies" too... his catch phrase is "Nice place you've got here... be a shame if anything should happen to it!"
Am I misreading the law, or does this actually qualify as extortion?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
But what about all the journalists (some call me that..but basically I'm a paid MonkeySoft shill) that SCO invited to see examples of infringing code. I know we had to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so I can't talk about what I saw, but believe me there was lots of powerpoint slides!!!
All your linux belong to us!
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Dude, you're too focused on ends. Enjoy the process.
Each day brings a new humilation to Darl McBride. Treasure this moment, because all too soon the case will be thrown out of court and then you won't have Darl to kick around any more.
So just relax and enoy, and don't be so focused on the final result. (No, your girlfriend didn't pay me to say that.)
Advanced users are users too!
Shocking. News. Ever.
-Valiss
Ok, now the way I see it. Darl is about to have such a shadow over him that someone needs to consider criminal charges of...
Perjury (statements in court)
Liable (statements in written letters to the press)
Slander (statements said anywhere he didn't physically write)
extortion (SCO license assurance to linux users)
Fraud (starting all this to boost SCOs stock value KNOWING he was false)
I'm sure there's more that I haven't thought of, but that's 5 items right there. Honestly....it should be some jail time for this guy. He's already proven he makes his living from suing others...this is the kind of person that needs to be removed from society. I'd rather have a rapist living next door to me. Atleast I know what to expect from them and shooting them when they enter my home is self defense.
While it's true that the basics of a kernel are easy to grasp, a really advanced one isn't. SCO isn't suing over the thing Linus banged out in the first place. They were suing over...
Well, it turns out that they were suing over squat. But these days the Linux kernel contains lots of fancy stuff, like the non-uniform memory access (NUMA) and spiffy process-scheduling features that, realistically, aren't built by just one guy. Linus had plenty of help.
What he didn't get was help from anything that SCO owns. It's hard, but it's not so hard that you have to steal it. Anything that can be written can be rewritten, usually more simply. Which is exactly what Linus et al. did a lot of the time.
doesn't mean you can't start a war of destruction against an innocent party.
Especially if you have lots of lawyers and elitists who care nothing for truth and honor.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
http://www.angelfire.com/d20/miamiharold/0111.html
Enjoy.....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Here's the thing you should walk away with. We wouldn't have done any better. As many "consultant" jokes as we do around here. Maybe the lesson is that prejudice is prejudice, no matter who's spouting it, and it always comes back and bites in the end. Keep that in mind next time you all want to generalize. Your turn will be next.
It wouldn't be surprising if he was actually out within 2 or 3 years,
In federal prison you do the time you are sentanced to. You don't get parole or any other reductions in your sentance. Also with a 25 year sentancec he won't go to a country club prison he goes to the hard time place.
http://Lenny.com
What a childish response, worthy of pity.
2: I'd doubly like to see each and every one of them sued into debt for their next three lifetimes for flogging their stock value on the basis of a court case they knew from the beginning was bogus.
3: I'd like to see all their miserable hides in jail for lying to the court that they actually had a case here when they knew from the beginning that they didn't!
4: I'd like to take a good rest from all this foolishness.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Darl McBride is just another non-technical businessman who thinks that operating systems are black magic that only huge teams of people can write.
You mean....like....the teams of people from Caldera/SCO that were helping along kernel development themselves???
Whether you're religious or not, Mormons are not the same as Christians.
As a Christian, I take exception to the idea that Bush is a religious leader. Frankly, I doubt I would agree with him on many points of theology; I disagree with him on many political points, too. Liberals tend to view Bush as a sort of Protestant Pope. That's utterly ridiculous. My religious beliefs inform my politics, not the other way around. The two are completely separate entities. Christianity is not necessarily a right wing religion; it calls out the shit on both sides of the spectrum, and demands perfection in what the two sides do correctly.
I encouraged them to try to get a similar audit of Windows from one of Microsoft's competitors before we include Windows in or bundle Windows with any of our future products.
Old News, in that we already know SCO Make their living from lawsuits, and from wheeler-dealing their Scam across the Linux Community in Search for a quick buck. SCO are lying once again.... And, in other news, Scientists report the Sky is Blue, and the Earth revolves around the Sun.
~The TwoTailedFox posts again....
... provides for greater penalties for "knowing" violations (which is why inventors can't afford the risk of doing patent research: if some judge decides they were infringing and it even appears that they knew ahead of time, they can be ruined.)
I don't know if that applies in this case (knowingly suing rather than knowingly infringing), but we can hope. SCO is history anyway, but maybe they can take Darl's yacht too.
This sort of thing shows that Linux is probably one of the legally safest systems you can use. What other system has been vetted so carefully and scrutinized by so many hostile lawyers and experts?
I bet that proprietary code bases are full of copyright and patent violations. And don't be so sure that indemnification will get you out of a lawsuit if you have deep pockets.
Even though they haven't violated any of our copyrights, we can still make them believe it and scare the crap out of them....heck we might even be able to get Microsoft to bankroll the operation... /00\
414n f1nd5 7h3 SC0 c0de
Alan Greenspan, haxor economist
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
In all fairness to both old and new SCO, both the unsealed e-mail and a previous Groklaw article linked from TFA suggests the code comparison was done by Old SCO (Santa Cruz Operation), possibly as long ago as 1999.
P.S. Those who know me can vouch for the purity of my pro-Linux, anti-SCO credentials, which contain nothing but barley, yeast, hops and water.
From what I have seen, the higher price the consultant is paid the more likely they are to be listened to and/or followed.
Note: this has nothing to do with whether they are correct in their recommendations. Just whether the employer will follow their recommendations.
comment directly in my journal
Amen.
In this case, the 'simple' bit is a simple idea - only teams of programmers can make a kernel. It doesn't matter that it's incorrect, just that it's what the PHB believes. It is their dogma. All evidence presented to them is filtered through this belief, or just plain ignored.
Here endeth the lesson.
-EvilMagnus
There isn't any evidence refuting Intelligent Design, but that is the biggest problem with it. It is not a theory, no matter how much they claim it is, because it is untestable. A theory is a hypothesis that has been tested and not (yet) disproven. Since there is no way Intelligent Design can be tested, it is not a theory. That is why it does not belong in the science classroom (especially since it has religious origins).
And if not, should someone who should not vote be allowed to run for President?
Just wondering where your idea takes us.
SCO bought the controversy mongering press position on linux: skeptical that it was real, and challenging it's performance and legitimacy at every bend. The press hype things things because it generates sales (ad impressions, magazines, etc...). I think, that SCO and McBride got caught up in hype, much like many people got caught up in polls promising a Kerry win inthe last US election. As much as everyone wanted everything to be true, and the news was reporting it, making it seem more true, but at the end, just as the real experts said, the hype and the truth turned out to be two different things.
I think this happened to SCO on a grand scale - and they fed upon the media of the time and the desire for ANYTHING to stop Linux coming from MS and it's closest allies. They even got money from them. They got fame from the reporters like O'Gara. Their stock would go up when they reported more.
Fortunately, just because a newspaper prints it, it does not always mean it's true.
-- $G
... is nail McBride's hide to the wall WRT IBM's Lanham Act counterclaims.
This email clearly shows that McBride knew in August 2002 - well before he began his "millions of lines" and "truckloads" tirade - that the claims he was going to make were false.
Darl & his MSFT frineds DID get away with it.
My CEO's already convinced that Linux is dirty thanks to lots of Enderle reports that our microsoft rep among others seem to have refered him to.
My bet is that Darl's backers are already praising him and preparing a job for him in much the same way that Rick Belluzzo got rewarded for defeating SGI and HP.
It would be worth it just to see the fireworks.
Do you think there will be any rioting?
I love these liberal pussies
An AC calling pussy?
Sorry... try again.
Although the email is dated 2002, the consultant's study that it refers to was delivered in 1999. You have to dig through the links on Groklaw to find this out. The consultant, Bob Swartz, examined Red Hat 5.2, which would be a 2.0 generation kernel.
Ok, I really don't like Daryl, but to say "who has before been hired by litigious companies as CEO" is just wrong.
Daryl was the CEO of the company I most recently worked for. When Daryl was there, our company was not involved in any litigation.
He may be a douchebag, but don't make yourself look like one by making shit up.
Darl McBride is just another non-technical businessman who thinks that operating systems are black magic that only huge teams of people can write. His reasoning leads him to believe that if "one guy" did it, but one guy really couldn't have done it, then he must have copied it.
No, Darl McBride is a sociopath who thinks that he's smarter than everybody else.
Like most other sociopaths, he justifies his behaviour by thinking "Everybody else is crooked, so I have to be too. I would have no problem engaging in copyright infringement, so therefore the Linux guys must not either, because they're just like me."
Whether he understands OS development is irrelevant - he simply doesn't care. What he cares about is justifying his position.
Anyone else find that a remarkably Orwellian phrase?
Hint, dude - that someone disagrees with you doesn't make him wrong.
I'm quite sure that if you ask BYU they'll tell you that mormons are not related to the catholic church.
Groklaw is intermittantly slow for me (database problems or whatever) and so I want to make sure this can be read by all.
I'd have to say this looks pretty damning, all said--it shows they found nothing and persisted anyway... Lovely.
Word up. How can anybody prove that?
Still, I do think Windows is probably fairly clean.
I believe the BSD license is the way. If you talk about market forces, I think in general those that produce sweet-ass code under BSD licenses will be employed anyway. If you demand that the user open their own source, you're essentially asking, "If you use our code, and close it up, We'll squash you in court?" Good idea, but how do you prove it? You've already ensured that violaters are fairly difficult to find. The answer might be easy for us developers, but its way to complicated for the courts. You wanna push open source? Eat em from the inside, where they can use your code on their terms, but you can close off the 'innovation' valve at any point. Then you just point out that everybody knows how to build a fucking motor; we all just build motors with different purposes and strengths. The concept itself shouldn't be limited to one company; what we're trying to reward in a market is being able to deliver the solution in a way that people like. Competition *stems* from others being on relatively equal ground.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Perhaps, a way to get to a rather dense person who sits high almighty on the self-erected pillar that one barely calls "a think-tank.", a simple Venn diagram composing of two circles; one circle inside another.
Label the Operating System/FOSS/GNU/LGNU for the BIG outside circle.
For the inside circle, "LINUX Only"
If no one can get this, I don't know who else can explain to those doofus who work at Alex Toqueville Institue.
No, he really isn't.
Ebbers (not Edwards) is one of a very rare elite -- wealthy white-collar criminals who are getting the book thrown at them. There are very few prosecutions in this arena. It's expensive, you are facing hordes of lawyers, and people wonder why you aren't hauling off murderers.
Ebbers is getting screwed specifically because he was involved in one of a handlful of financial cases that were so egregious that they caught the attention of the popular media, and hence the mind of the public. If you are a politician, and you represent a public outraged over some criminal, you do what you can to have the book thrown at that criminal.
Darl did not piss off anyone other than the statistically insignificant (if vastly disproportionate in influence in the tech world) members of the open source community. My mother has no idea that Darl exists, and there isn't really any way to pack his crimes into a one-sentence damning sound byte that appeals to the public(Ebbers had to deal with pictures of blue collar workers and the sentence "they lost their retirement money"). Nothing scares the shit out of a voting baby boomer like the concept of someone losing their retirement money.
Darl, IIRC, came off of the whole thing rather well, with no liability and plenty of money. And SCO was in the shitter already, so his rep is more of just a CEO willing to try some long shots when not much remains than the guy who killed SCO. He *did* manage the media rather poorly, getting personally involved instead of having a more competent spokesman involved, but that's really the only black mark against him.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
Is what I first thought you wrote. It's really easy to picture Torquemada as an SCO lawyer. I see him shouting "Confess! Linux is of the Devil!" and threatening Linux users with litigation and burning at the stake if they don't pay SCO their licensing fee.
Perhaps.... but for the past couple years the MSFT and Sun (buy a legal SCO licensed linux from us) and HP (buy sco insurance from us) and SCO allegations have made our corporate risk guys move to Windows and froze our move to Linux.
Now that Linux is in the clear, it'd be nice to see them apply that same standard to other software.
# You, sir,
# make's worth
# I'll
# skullfuck you,
# Don't
+++ATH0
Receiving end: "Why those F*cking lawyers!"
Dishing out: "Don't forget to get money for my pain and suffering."
Some groups would like to change this, but if you get 25 years you're probably serving 25 years. H.R. 3072 is a bill to bring back parole, and as much as I hate people like Ebbers, its much needed when non-violent drug offenders spend their lives in prison because of the puritanical drug war.
The upside is that federal prisons tend to be a bit nicer than state prisons.
...Linux could possibly not contain Unix code...
Does that make it the UnUnix?
What?
BSD. Duh.
Some anonymous coward reports there may have been more to the legendary aspect of code being copied from AIX into Linux; see the follow-up on Grokster at http://tinyurl.com/do5d5.
He was SCO's chief architect during the early years. If anyone knows, it's him.
If a consultant can figure out relatively quickly that Linux did not steal the code, then MS and certainly Sun who both had access to Unix code should have known. Basically, they both knew that Linux had NO code. So why where they sending money into SCO? I hope that when the SEC investigates SCO, they also investigates the link between Sun/MS and SCO.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The problem was, you didn't listen to him. If you did, you would have heard him clearly say;
"I'm a PR agent. I've been paid to take a position and I am glad to suck up your time as that's what I am paid to do. I get bonus points by looking somewhat reasonable while you loose your composure in an attempt to convince me of something that I have no personal stake in beyond a paycheck."A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
How about looking at the recent Downing Street memos from June 2005?
From the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/31/politics/31cnd-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-blair
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
25 year sentence for a 63 year old with an alleged heart problem... Maybe he can give McBride tips on what NOT to do...
We are fortunate that SCO based their claim on the perception of stolen code, rather than the intellectual property represented by the Unix command interface. In a climate that permits egregious patents on "soft" aspects of software behaviour (one-click anyone?) that approach could have been a true horror despite all claims to prior art.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
If SCO had been serious about investigating the Linux kernel, they would have had needed to hire a sizable team to perform the investigation. There is no evidence they ever did so - rather, they hired this guy - so it seems reasonable to suppose they didn't want to carry out an in-depth study.
This could mean they were convinced that Linux - as a whole - WAS a gigantic piracy effort, that there was little or no original code in it, which really would only require a single person to verify. It would explain the way they went about it, along with the gigantic claims they were making.
It seems more likely, however, that SCO had decided Linux was a sizable threat to their UnixWare product and one that could not be attacked by SCO through competition. (SCO doesn't have the raw talent, plain and simple, and the cost of UnixWare was higher than the support provided would justify.)
If Linux could not be beaten by competition, could not be bought out, could not be undercut, and could not be out-advertised, SCO's actions become more understandable, despicable as they are.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Darth McBribe, the most Stupid Anti-hero will be jailed 25 years or more?
will probably never be found now. It is of course Bob Swartz' report.
As everyone knows, SCO is really Caldera, they just took over SCOs name when they bought the rights to UNIX.
It's a bummer, my real first heavy use of Linux was with Caldera. I remember visiting threir booth at a Comdex in the late 90's
What seems weird to me is how such a small startup could buy UNIX, you think someone ike IBM would pay 10 times as much to get a hold of it and lock it away.
In the end I think McBride should be brought up on criminal charges as this was totally a stunt to juck up stock prices.
I predict that after this si all over the rights to UNIX will be bought to someone and then releae free into the world, just like those groups that get together and buy up empty land just to keep it empty. I do not know how long it will take but I will refer back to this when it does.
How about:
- it appears that scox's showing of the code to select journalists, who signed an NDA, was a stunt specifically designed to decieve the public. No wonder there was an NDA.
- it appears that scox's showing the code in Las Vegas ScoForum, was not just a mistake, it appears to be another possible deception.
- apparently scox filed the law suit in bad faith, right from the begining.
- scox letters to 1500 businesses, demanding payment for the scox code in linux, appears to be an attempt at outright extortion.
- scox execs enriching themselves by selling scox in the high teens appears a blantant stock scam.
- mcbrides numerous public statements about millions of lines of code, appears to be somewhat less than truthful.
#include
and...
{
and...
}
as for all the other lines that *don't* match - aha! That's the obfuscated part!
The judges had this letter all along.
The email, of itself, may not conclusively prove anything; buy where is all this "good faith" of which Wells spoke?
Why have these judges been gushing over all of scox's "good faith", when the judges know that scox was outright lying about the "mountians" of infringing code. The judges know the NDA was a giant scam - specifically designed to fool the public.
Yet the judges continue to help scox in their little scam. All along what has scox wanted from the courts, and what has scox got?
- Endless delays
- Harass IBM with bogus discovery requests
- No accountability on scox's parts
- Freedom for scox to continue it's crimminal activities
- Keep a legal cloud over F/OSS (recent article in Forbes captializing on scox's claims).
Scox has been given practically everything scox wanted at every turn. And, I am certain that nobody at scox will ever be held accounting. Not in Utah.
"String theory" matches that same description (can't be proven). It's being researched and taught in colleges though.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
behind you.
Scox would not have been able to pull off the scam without lots of help from msft and sunw.
They must be smokin crack... oh wait Linus already said that. :)
That's the difference between "lies" and "bullshit". Bush might technically have not "lied", if the British government had "learned" such a fact. Even if some official in the British government "learned" that fact from one source, and then learned that fact was a lie - Bush technically could have told the truth by qualifying his statement as a fact "learned by the British". But it's really just bullshit.
That doesn't mean that Bush's statement wasn't also a "lie". As we now know, the British government had actually learned about Bush that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" - British for "Bush is bullshitting everyone so he can invade Iraq". Americans are starting to find the difference between lies and bullshit to be meaningless: it's all becoming known generally as "bushit". Especially as THERE WAS NO URANIUM, THERE WAS NO WMD, BUSH LIED TO INVADE IRAQ, WHERE'S OSAMA?
--
make install -not war
McBride wasn't "caught up in the hype" it was a planned scam from day one.
This letter proves that mcbride knew there was no infringing code. Yet mcbride went on to make many public claims to the contrary. Mcbride also wrote 1500 corporations demanding $$ for scox's code, which mcbride knew wasn't there.
The media hype was orchestrated by scox. Why do you think they only showed the code to select journalists who signed an NDA? Scox didn't want any honest journalists reporting - scox still doesn't.
You're not very good at the whole trolling thing are you? Your comment is so dumb I don't see anyone getting mad. You have failed.
But no, it's an opinion that can be seen as "SCO supportive" and must be modded into oblivion. :-p
No, it was a post that was just stupid. And deserved to be modded down.
SteveM
HP never bought insurance from SCO. HP was going to, and then backed out at the last minute and announced indemnification for their customers.
Click here for story
HP probably felt that by paying the insurance instead of offering indemnification, they would be admitting guilt. They probably also have access to the source code and did their own audit of Linux and gave the green light.
Jeff Merkey's going to sue you if you say anything bad about SCO.
"Any of the following alternatives is infinitely better:
-Windows XP, 2003, etc
-MacOS X
-BSD under any form"
If you weren't such neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie and obvious M$ fanboy with your head tuck firmly up your ass, you wouldn't have made the 2 erroneous statements above:
1) Windows XP, 2003, etc are better than Linux? In Bizarro World, maybe. We'll just assume you're high on crack.
2) OSX is BSD you ignorant little prick! Which negates you having to use it in the list, when you state "BSD under any form"
[flame war on] Windows in any form is a bloated piece crap! [/flame war on]
While we're posting on slashdot, darl is laughing all the way to the bank.
The scox-scam has been a huge success, and will continue to be a huge success for another 1.5 years at the very least.
- linux has a legal cloud over it.
- many scox execs sold when scox was in the high teens, their options cost them $0.001 each.
- mcbride made a cool million last year in salary.
- the scam continues.
The Litigation, what a show!
The Litigation, here we go!!
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away!
So all you Penguins and Daemons too
We got big news for all of you:
You'd better change your point of views TODAY!
'Cause the Litigation's here and it's here to stay!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
"Then whenever you hear anybody on the TV who has
the word 'CHIEF' or 'EXECUTIVE' or 'OFFICER' in
their title, you point the box at the TV and
there's your answer."
When watching these same BS artists on TV, exclaim
"I know he's lying - I can see his lips move!"
I could cut way back on my high blood pressure
medicine when I started watching these BS artists
on TV with the sound muted, and '60s/'70s/'80s
tunes cranked up. (Somehow, the rock'n'roll crowd
back then weren't so gullible, and "Question Authority"
was the norm.)
IANAL, but if SCO knowingly charged for a product (their proprietary code) that was, in fact, a product owned by the LINUX community under the GPL, what damages are due? To whom would they be paid? This is entirely separate from the damages due to the knowingly false claim against IBM.
Nope. If you want to support SCO, that's your own lookout, and would deserve a "+1 Funny" if anything. The thing that irked me was the insinuation (not opinion) that the scanned document was fake, where even cursory research via Google would have sufficed to prove otherwise to him/her.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
It means SCO was acting on a hunch; they did not have a shred of solid evidence indicating infringement even when claiming otherwise to investors and the courts. Which puts them in serious legal hot water viz-a-viz the SEC, perjury, and so forth--and perhaps their corporate parent as well.
That's right.. like "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
A chick offers you a blow job.
You do not say no.
Someone acuses you of having forced her to have full intercourse with you. What do ou say when they ask you if you did it? You say "no", even if they made the question vague enough to include both what actually happened and what they're accusing you of doing.
And now: How many lives did Clinton's blowjob cost?
Because Bush's war killed 23 thousand Iraqi civilian lives, and now nearly 2 thousand US troops their lives.
You can't take the sky from me...
Or forced change from without?
This isn't just something a third party Band-Aid will fix.
However, neither the United Nations, nor al-Queda are doing it for me. If there are any extraplanetary governments out there, I'm interested.
Some lines from a speech I remember that feels relevant about now:
Tradition is a history, it's the history of caring built by deep, true feelings of people. I do think that fighting in battles can at times be beautiful, but at the same time I'd like to express my regret over the lost souls be appealing to you to recognize how priceless man's life is. I believe what man needs is not absolute victory, but a certain demeanor in fighting, an attitude toward fighting. I feel that this era may become an embarrassment to the people of the future.
From a historical point of view, warriors who have lost what they were protecting and were further betrayed by those they were protecting are losers. But they do not recognize themselves as such. Not only that, but they retain a strong will to continue fighting. The emotions of those who were thought to be beautiful are always full of sorrow, and honored tradition disappears in the cry of the weak. Winners of a battle will eventually decline in power and become losers, and then those 'loserswill cultivate a new leader.
I'm telling you... I want to be a "loser".
Linux Commonly distributed on 4-8 CD's and up Packaged with 143 different text-editors that all do the same thing (ya... no matter how you cut it, they all edit text and save it to a file). 56 webbrowsers, 14 different word processors, and a thousand different games, servers, and various other little programs that a user MIGHT need at any point durring their use of the OS, because as we all know... the average user won't be able to get anything to work that wasn't installed with the OS. Windows... 1 CD & 30minute install on a slow machine Easy partitioning that requires only a single partition. Maybe not the best way to do it, but the way that makes the most sense from any normal human's pov. 1 slim text editor (notepad) 1 slim word-processor (wordpad) 1 calculator (calc) 1 crappy paint program that is being slowly phased out 1 peice of software to do one job... Each of them are minimalist. If you need more software, there's downloads available. They can be installed quickly because you just double click them. As long as most major linux distro's come in the form of 4-8 (and up) CDs (isos), one or several DVDs... I don't wanna hear anything about Windows being bloated. Unless you want to use a useless operating system that boots off of a floppy or usb-keychain.
You replied to it. Therefore, the troll did its job.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Your comment reminds me of the Simpson's episode where the departing Mafia don says "Remember: In the End, Crime Doesn't Pay", and then gets into his fleet of limos.
Face facts, SCO was a company whose stock price was floundering. Then Darl came along, ginned up a lawsuit, and multiplied it manyfold. He also got real revenue for the company from "sales" of "licenses" to Microsoft. He's already a multi-millionaire as a result. And despite how slashdot members feel, it's extremely unlikely he'll ever see any jail time.
Big name spammers are much the same. We may all hate them, but they've done very well by themselves. What's the worst that most have them have seen from their billions of dollars of theft of service? A slap on the wrist.
Same thing for Bush and Rove. Had either been remotely honorable or honest, Bush wouldn't have won reelection. Tell me, how is is losing?
Face facts: evil tactics are often winning strategies. Especially because our collective tolerance for corruption is so high (and going higher).
YHBT. YHL. HAND. (You might want to look this up and find out what it means to save your karma in the future).
nope
I thought it was relatively well-known speculation that much of NT was ripped off from DEC's VMS, especially considering DEC filed suit against Microsoft and MS ended up settling out of court.
Nice, that'll get you promoted.
It has already been shown that thisa entire fiasco was funded by Microsoft as an attack against Linux, that it really had no basis in fact and was a lame attempt by large holders of SCO stock to turn a quick profit on bogus bullshit.
And now we are supposed to be surprised that all of this has some basis in "fact". Fuck America and fuck the court system that let this ride soooo long without someone just crying BULLSHIT!
They (SCO) have not substantiated even one of their claims, have consistently changed their claims in every declaration to the courts and yet not ONE judge has ever had the temerity to ever say to SCO: "BULLSHIT! Get the hell out of my court!" Why not?
You must serve 8 of 10 years in the federal system (or thereabouts as ithe law is stated in months). There is essentially no way out of serving most of your sentence(.) You're confusing this with states strapped for cash releasing prisoners, while the federal system is not strapped for cash. They print more.
If they get the time, they serve it! Unless you get a presidential pardon...
cboyd@mercury ~ $ uname -a
Linux mercury 2.6.11-gentoo-r11 #1 SMP Sun Jun 26 13:44:28 CDT 2005 i686 Pentium II (Deschutes) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux (THE NON-SCO CODE VERSION)
cboyd@mercury ~ $
Looks like I'm ok.
The article also states "Until now, the only evidence of Iraq's alleged attempts to buy uranium from Niger had turned out to be a forgery." So even if it is true, this does not exonerate the Bush lie -- at the time he spoke those words, the only evidence was in fact the forged documents (forged most likely by AEI's Michael Ledeen). And as another poster points out the Bush admin has since admitted that their only source of evidence for this was the documents that they already knew were forged.
I guess that SCO has alot of refunding to do. They can also fire Darl McBride from the SCO. Then they can just close the doors forever, after all. The future for SCO is not good at all.
They have their theory (desire, really) and they try to find anecdotes to support it.
Sounds like a lot of sciences these days.
Uh, given that Microsoft has been cought Illegally copying code for inclusion in thier OS multiple times, I don't know how you can assume that they are clean now. The first biggie I remember was when they copied Stacker code into DOS 6. They didn't even bother to remove Stackers name from the code.
Clinton probably loves the fact that people most remember the "big scandal." Distracts from his treasonous role with respect to transfer of high-level defense technologies to the Chinese.
All these people who write anti-Linux rants like that chap did clearly have never used it. Linux needs work - there still isn't a great GUI for it yet, it needs a migration-from-Windows package, etc, etc. - but it certainly isn't "shit." On the other hand it isn't "the shit" yet either, but I keep hoping that will change as time goes by. Malleus Dei, satisified *nix user since 1975
Slashdot Moderation Guidelines: Leftist viewpoint (+4), Conservative viewpoint (-4, Troll)
Sought means tried.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" => he should have paid for somebody to clean that dress. Why lie about it? If it was good enough for JFK, FDR and so on further back, it was good enough for him.
V.S.
"Iraq's WMD pose an immanent threat to the US, requiring we invade immediately" => thousands of dead Iraquis and 1700+ dead US grunts. Why lie about it? So he's liable for murder and war crimes.
I'll take a president who does it to one girl instead of getting some of us KILLED.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
It doesn't matter. Microsoft already indemnifies customers against IP lawsuits. The did this to make Linux look bad.
However, it might not actually be worth anything.
Nobody could have got that virus carrying, spam spewing, spywware ridden, worm eaten pile of code past any decent code review.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Doesnt' anyone on the SCO legal team or board of directors, or executive staff care about the 10 commandments?
"Thou shallt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." It is one of the 10 commandments given by the Lord to the Isrealites in the desert. It means that the Lord told them not give false testimony, or render false accusations.
Now dear slashdot mod me down another 2. After 2 years and 100 posts, "Thou shallt not kill" costed me the only mod points i had.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
And if you honestly think they're 'teaching' string theory, you're confused, because, like I said, it's not even vaguely useful yet.
They're teaching quantum mechanics and relativity to physics majors, just like they always have. That's where you sit and down the math. Those are the 'real' things physics majors learn. They're just presenting string theory to them as a possiblity.
And there's a bit of a difference between teaching 9th graders in a required biology class a religious explanation of evolution with no evidence that doesn't solve any problems, and talking to college students majoring in physics about a possible new scientific theory that has no evidence but could resolve the large question hovering over physic's head.
And no one would have the least problem with biology majors in college talking about 'intelligent design', and in fact I'm sure they do. College isn't high school, biology isn't a required class, and people majoring in a subject are expected to know lots of stuff about it, including random theories and even discredited ones.
And, BTW, 'string theory' hasn't been in for quite a while.They're talking about m-branes now.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Of course... you can't be paid by something that doesn't exist...
When I was in the Air Force, we told officers to stuff it several times when they gave unlawful and stupid orders.
Like, clean up the inside of a tornado damaged wharehouse that was literally leaning at a 45 degree angle. Boy he was pissed when we all just stood around staring at him like he was a moron. Which he obviously was.
Or the multiple times I have refused officers (everything from butterbars to a 3 star) entry into a munitions operation because they had no valid munitions reason to be there. They get really ticked... For some reason the brainwashing worked on some of them, and they think they are god or something.
You are not liable for refusing to follow an Unlawful order. You are liable if you follow it, knowing it was unlawful. If you didn't know it was unlawful depends on if the court martial or jury believes that you did not and reasonablely could not know that it was unlawful.
UCMJ is your big guide, it'll protect you're but against any number of stars, just as long as you know the appropriate rule. And for basic daily functions, you'd better know where you stand before some moron tells you something stupid.
(U.C.M.J. is the Uniform Code of Military Justice)
You didn't read the parent right - people try to _disprove_ theories, not prove them. A theory is just a guess that hasn't been disproven yet.
"String theory" covers a whole bunch of variations of metaphysics & particle physics, some variations of which smart people have already figured out problems with (and thrown them out), other variations which smart people have figured out possible tests (but which aren't possible with our level of technology), and some which people haven't been able to figure out tests for (but don't have any reason to believe that they won't be able to eventually figure out some kind of test).
I haven't read about anyone who has described an actual "string theory" which was theoretically untestable. _That_ would be the equivalent of a religion.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
reviews of isolated components are probably not so bad. it's just that here we may have an example of the whole being less than the sum of its parts.
must... stay... awake...
Just like the astroturfers in here then...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Their middle years is a different matter though. Perhaps you're talking about when they dropped Xenix and went with UNIX?
Your right. The following link is a story about how Microsoft stole the NT kernel from Digital. http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/Print.cfm?Art icleID=4494
Does anybody else find it ironic that Microsoft that stole a kernel is touting that Linux isn't clean? The best part is that VMS and NT are so simular that even some of the terminology is the same. Maybe Darl took lessons from Microsoft, except SCO is claiming to be the victem.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
SCO spent years living large off of investors such as Microsoft.
"Uses demand paged virtual memory"!
"Boosts priorities to overcome CPU hogging."
"has a program named backup"
"Supports SMP"
"heavily dependent on memory-mapped files"
And how come when Linux is accused of being stolen, the answer is "kernels are easy to write" (see posts up above), but when both VMS and NT have some similar aspects, it's clearly because one is stolen.
This is ridiculous. I know the writers of NT learned from VMS, but it's not a ripoff, far from it.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I felt a great disturbance in the farce... as if millions of geeks were suddenly silenced and then burst into laughter.
If that's the case, I may have to arrange to be in Utah for the arraignment. I guess along with every other Linux user on the planet, huh? It'll be like a freaking geek Woodstock up in Utah, let me tell you...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I was thinking THE SAME THING, the similarities between our own Darl and Bush are astounding. They both ignored advice and went on their crusades anyways. Bush got advice from CIA that there probably were no WMDs in Iraq, but ignored such reports, and STILL tried to convince us in Europe that Iraq actually had WMDs and we should join in the madness..
That Clinton got impeached and Bush is still in office is an outrage! Future historians will shake their heads in digust at our era. It tells alot of the American people, but sadly we have the same growing problems here in Europe.
if they are not xtain, why should they?
Hell, how many of your fellow church goingers fully follow the 10 commandments?
>> See, you *really* don't know what you're talking about. Windows is well...everything. Because you cannot remove the Windowing system, the windowing server, the shell, the included "core" freebie applications. You're stuck with it all.
You know what's fucked?
on a bunch of XP installations I've done it's put EMPTY directories in the Program Files tree, and the system will NOT let you delete these empty directories.
What the fuck is that? A system protecting... nothing?
(Note: on this machine "microsoft frontpage", and "xerox" are both empty and undeletable.
If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
That'd be like saying Windows XD (where XD means OH YEAH!!) which is based on new technology that happens to be similar to Linux, is actually copying Linux ... when in fact, they hired Linus Torvalds to do the design. And Linus brought along Alan Cox, Ted Tso, Alan Morton, etc.
... In August 1988, Bill Gates hired Cutler. One of Cutler's conditions for moving to Microsoft was that he could bring around 20 former Digital employees with him, including several Prism hardware engineers.")
NT is not a stolen VMS kernel. Microsoft hired the designers from Digital, because Digital did not know what they were doing (which is why they died).
This isn't even new news. They talked about this over 10 years ago. Hell, it's even in the article you link to! ("NT's history is closely tied to that of David N. Cutler, NT's chief architect... In 1988, Digital executives cancelled Cutler's project and laid off many of its group members. Cutler decided to leave Digital,
It's hard to call something stolen when you hire everyone responsible for a product.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Jeez ... Bush sets the world on fire versus Clinton getting a blow job and somehow this equates to you?
... We got Dubya, Darl and William Jefferson. Which two have more in common?
Ok
Darl and William Jefferson by default, because nobody (save Carl Rove) could possibly come close to that walking, talking, piece of shit Bush.
We should do something about that guy, and that guys like him at other places.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Bad Karma
Given the obvious securities fraud that was perpetrated here by SCO - how long until Elliot Spitzer gets in a tizzy and starts suing Darl and Co right back to the stone age?
I can't wait to see Darl in an orange jumpsuit on his way to Club Fed to become someone's biatch... I'm gonna MythTV that one and then seed the Torrent....
> 1 slim word-processor (wordpad)
n /MS04-041.mspx
And Microsoft even managed to introduce security vulnerabilities there.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/Bulleti
Bullshit - Would you like to know more?
Linux isnt' shit, linux is "the shit" :-)
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
Somehow I always confuse Toqueville with Torquemada
"Burn, Open Source Heretics! Burn!"
Please, someone sue SCO and their board and Darl for filing a frivolous lawsuit, perjury, and whatever else they can. As long as there is no personal risk people and companies will continue to abuse the legal system like this. There needs to be some punishment, some behavioral conditioning.
IBM is probably the only one who can really do it... or maybe the EFF. I don't know... I just think it's dumb that everyone involved will make out fine (even as SCO goes out of business) and it was all just fun and games to try ruining public property and causing several other companies to have to spend a ton of money.
Cheers.
Well actually, it was later discovered that there was in fact an attempt to purchase uranium:
/ this_just_in/documents/03979276.asp
e ws/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features
Also, David Kay, the head of the hunt for WMD's in Iraq believed they were moved to Syria:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/n
Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It's the average fuel economy of the sales as a whole. The manufacturers get around it by making millions of shit boxes like the Ford Taurus, selling them as cheap as they can (at a loss often) to rental companies and people who want "value autos". These efficient vehicles then offset the inefficiencies in the high-margin SUVs.
K.
It appears that before SCO even began its investigation, they were hoping to find a smoking gun, not believing that Linux could possibly not contain Unix code. Apparently, they ignored the advice of this consultant.
We all know Halliburton, but I didn't know the Bush admin also worked for SCO.
We can be quite confident that NT does not contain VMS code: VMS was written mostly in VAX assembly language. NT was written, I believe, mostly in C. In any case, one thing we can be sure of is that it was NOT written in VAX assembly language.
I'm not even sure that NT can be said to contain ideas proprietary to VMS. Is there any evidence of that? The general nature of VMS has been public knowledge since the outset, and as far as I know there is nothing in VMS that requires unusual algorithms or coding tricks that would make it hard to implement without detailed knowledge of the code. I'm no MS lover (and use no MS software), but I haven't heard anything that would make me thing that MS played dirty on this one.
oh ENGLAND is it? I suppose the Royal Scots are an English Regiment? The Black Watch?
Do be a little more careful with your geography...
...is to gauge how big the bubble is going to get. When it started, SCO was at 1$. What was a good time to enter? $3? $5? $10? More? How long until it burst? A month? Six months? A year? More? Imagine SCO had found a feather they could have turned into a henhouse. The stock could have skyrocketed, and so would your losses. Yes, eventually you're supposed to recoup that on the way down. But if you thought $5 was high for a bag of hot air, owing several hundred percent on your investment is a big chance.
Same thing with the dotcom bubble. Man, I saw it was a bubble. All the warning lights were beaming red. So I thought it would burst. And it kept growing and growing, to completely absurd proportions. Tiny software companies that hadn't made a dime in profit were more worth than major banks. The stock market is full of wierdness like that (though usually not on such a big scale), but knowing what to do about it... if you managed to ride the bubble up, then short it on the way down, I'm more than impressed. If you had asked me to try, I would shorted too early and been slammed. That is my fear about betting on a bursting bubble.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
SCO$699FeeTroll (695565)
Don't forget...
Never before has a nick been so appropriate.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Look up who and what Seymour Cray did. Wrote an OS by himself (in a couple of months), for a supercomputer(s) he designed. By all accounts some of the cleanest code too, all hex. Yes there are some that can 'compile' code, to object, from memory out there. Yes kiddies, MP and paging.. in 1960.
That's not true about Windows NT-based OS having VMS actual CODE in it, but it does share a design that is based off of the ideas in VMS... that is because the architect of VMS was hired by Microsoft AGES ago (circa 1989-1991 iirc, maybe earlier) & his name was David Cutler.
.NET + Visual Studio is "@ the helm of their design" here also, like David Cutler was @ the helm for the design of VMS and NT!)
Apparently, VMS didn't own any rights to the ideas he was using, because the core of the OS & it's designs is ALOT like VMS, but not line for line code... just the 'idea' of how it would work and how its subsystems interact.
Plus, someone else made the point above of VMS being written in machine dependent assembler, whereas NT-based Os' cores are C language...
The Program Manager shell (@ first circa Windows NT 3.5x) & later Explorer.exe (true original non IE one) got tacked ontop of the NT native API core later... & finally in NT 4.0 (Sp #2 iirc, & later ones), 2000/XP/2003 got the IE/Explorer shell tacked on later (when IE 4.x came out).
BUT, Windows NT is not, line-for-line = VMS...
Not in code line for line.
Ideas-wise, yes, it runs things ALOT like Vax VMS by Digital Equipment Corp. does...
And, again, that's because the same fellow's ideas (an employee first of DEC & later of MS) in David Cutler was behind both!
(MS is a regular brain-drainer of other companies' top talent, just like David Cutler came from DEC, they have hit Borland tons of times too, e.g.-> Anders Heijelsberg, & why you see things like Data Containers in VB 6.x & above and things in newer Visual Studio versions that have things in them JUST LIKE Delphi &/or C++ Builder had... makes sense, the same guy that built both Delphi &
When MS' changed (in Windows NT 3.51) the video presentation subsystem from being in RPL3/Ring3 (usermode), into Kernel Mode (RPL0/Ring0) for greater speed of display (but, also giving it the potential for crashing the OS itself because it was in a "less restricted ring of operation" layer of the OS in Ring0/RPL0/kernel mode if a driver was not up to par for video)?
The designer of NT-based Os' was furious, because it was making his "bulletproof" OS, more vulnerable to instability, especially if a video driver was not 110% perfect!
(This is also part of why, imo, the Windows Driver Model (WDM) & the DDK started giving device driver creators a std. template of generic functions for various pieces of equipment, and this "mini-driver model" upon which specifics for various pieces of hardware could be added ontop of... creating more stable drivers that functioned well in BASIC operations, such as VGA/SVGA video per our example above when MS moved the video display (GDI) subsystems out of RPL3/Ring3 where they could NOT crash the OS... sure, they could crash there, but the whole OS would not go down... it could restart the video subsystem again, but it was slower).
This is why using the native NtAPI type calls like NtCreateFile, are faster than Win32 CreateFile (but, these 2 for example? Are SO close in speed due to optimizations applied, that you'd have to do MILLIONS of loops using both to be able to start seeing an appreciable difference!)
When you start doing CPU context switches (realmode/RPL0/Ring0 to usermode/RPL3/Ring3 & vice-a-versa) though?
I don't care WHAT operating system you use... you'll take TREMENDOUS performance hits. This, afaik, is inescapable, & CPU level operations wise is where this happens.
APK
P.S.=> Feel free to correct me where you feel I am off or wrong here, but afaik? That's how it works & the 'trade-off's' involved... apk
To throw another log on the fire. How can digital goods be "stolen"? Oh, right. Only if you hate the one's doing the "stealing". We hate MS, we love slashdotters who "borrow" digital goods.
Amazing how all you have to do to be the biggest karma whore is post something against George Bush.
The original post could've been about bunnies and strawberries, but you will get +5 Informative every time!
As a radical moderate, it's very interesting to watch how much more liberals hate George Bush than conservatives hated Bill Clinton. Who would've thought that was even possible!?
I'm a big tall mofo.
now that we see where it all stands, once it's all over and we win. We must turn around sue their pants off, for things like "lost bussiness", and such. so as to ensure that whoever messes with linux again, will know that it's not just a game, but the real thing.
Against all odds, hahaaa.
I agree with your comments about BSD or other open source licenses being good approaches: I just prefer the GPL license for a number of subtle reasons.
But on what possible basis do you claim Windows is clean? Given the settlements with DEC for David Cutler and his merry gang of software pirates re-using David's old work at DEC to build NT, and the numerous patent and copyright violations Microsoft has been caught at since then, and the plain old obvious theft of technologies like the Microsoft Mouse, how can you possibly claim that Windows is clean of blatant intellectual property theft?
Cue Python, "Sperm Song".
"Entire civilisations have crusted in my navel hair!"
You can't take the sky from me...
I do believe you mean 256 colors. As well, has nobody ever seen the "Quick Format" option on a windows install?
The Toqueville Institute. What a bunch of ass clowns.
Move this sucker up to Federal Court since this deals with securities. Haul his butt to Washington DC and try him in Federal court. Then have him serve his time in Marion Ill (supermax facility). Go after the law firm, rinse lather repeat. Then go after their assets. Dole it out to stockholders of RedHat, IBM, Diamler Chrystler, Autozone and anyone else injured by these guys. Maybe with any luck he will get mugged while in Washington too (Red light camera, speed camera, friendly neighborhood thief).
has nobody ever seen the "Quick Format" option on a windows install?
No, I'll just run an
from the bash prompt.I used to be a sceptic. These days, I'm not so certain.
Did you mean similar?
Don't lose time reading or answering this!
"Darl is not the only one richly deserving of jail time.
Sure he is. But, as others point out, he'll probably escape conviction."
Tell that to Bernard Ebbers. Twenty 25 years for Mr. Worldcom. Darl won't get that much, but I see no reason why an alleged stock scam and extortion plot would deserve anything less than a full investigation by SEC, FBI, etc.
Well, Microsoft gave DEC (as I recall) 60 odd million dollars for intellectual property they weren't supposed to have been using. Seems they though they'd done something wrong.
Why?
Not only stolen code, but infringing code as well.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
You misspelled fiends.
> Just like the astroturfers in here then...
or anywhere else....
Why would SCO care ?
To the best of my knowledge they're not Isrealites so I doubt they'd give a fig about some old rubbish allegedly spouted off by Yahweh to some bunch of random loonies in the desrt.
Come to think of it why would anyone care a fig about anything written in the Bible ?
But Bill Gates gets half.
Just FYI, this was originally published in The Onion, but is no longer available in their archives.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
No, it's an old myth by now, but people really should now better. Saddam never expelled the U.N. weapon inspectors.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1650
One big way that GPL code is found in closed source programs is from the people that put it there. It doesn't tend to be the coders that put it in there all that much... but preasure from managment to get the job done fast... or just use this stuff to make it work faster.
So you just wait tell managment mucks someone over and wait for them to drop an anon tip to the right people.
Revenge is sweet.
Basically both of these articles lend credence to the possibility that Saddamm wanted WMDs and may have had small, but emphasize the fact that he was less of a threat than Iran and North Korea, and the war actually exacerbated the problem of WMD proliferation.
First Falcon-1 to orbit, then Falcon-9. Then I can die a happy man.
Quote: "Installer stuck at a horrible 640*480 resolution, non changeable by the user. Oh, and 256 bit resolution. Not even fully graphical!!!" Why in god's name would you want a fully graphical openGL powered install sequence. All you're doing is installing the thing. #1 thing linux developers need to get over. It's not about graphics durring install, it's about fewer clicks (if you want to be ready for the desktop that is) Quote: "notepad, to put it lightly is not particularly good. Neither is wordpad. kwrite easily beats both of them, hands down. Paint isn't that bad, it's simplistic and works (mostly). Compare Paint to the GIMP (pretty much a default install on nearly every distribution in existence). Need I say anymore?" Yes you need to say more. You're really going to argue the point that one program that edit's text is better than another? We're arguing bloat here and I'll still maintain that notepad is less bloated than kedit. Paint v. GIMP... sure GIMP is better but not everyone who sets up a PC needs a fully featured raster-based image editor. more bloat Quote "You're referring to "pirate" software. Everyone knows that most pirates are using Microsoft Windows." Believe it or not, there's a huge array of free software available for us windows users too... even OSS! Windows!=Pirate Paradise Quote "apt-get install programname." Does it work? Probably. Is it simple if you know what you're doing? Maybe. Would someone be able to do it if they weren't a linux-fanboy? No. This method of installing software isn't intuitive and should be replaced with something that makes more sense. I also realize that linux is nothing more than the kernel, and yes it's VERY VERY TINY. (congratulations) But in order to get it to do anything meaningful you have to start piling on software and packages. Before you know it you have a pile of confusing shit. Running a server where you need absolute control of everything? Go for it and enjoy. Running a desktop where you're going to email your friends, send IMs, play games, and word-process? There's no need to be able to remove the windowing system. You just want it to work.
I recall an error message on a system a long time ago, in a network I ran far, far away. Said box was running an early beta version of NT that somebody pointy-haired had insisted I install, and occasionally when it crashed it spit out something to the effect of "OS/2 has detected a problem. Please contact IBM at 1-800-???-????"
I don't go to church so I wouldn't know. I keep the sabbath in my own way. Due to personal experience I try to keep the commandments as best I can, and I take that quest seriously.
I can say this for sure, that if the people of the world kept the commandments as best they could it wouldn't be such a hellish place. Wars would stop. Most disputes would stop. Divorce rates would drop. Kids would have both parents to learn from. Resources would stop being wasted building prisons, police forces and armies. Highways would stop roaring with mallbound customers on weekends. I daresay even the gluttony of consumer waste would drop. People would be in touch with God, and have His guidance in all things. I've learned never to underestimate how much of a difference that can make.
The Lord promised that honoring your father and mother would result in a long life. I take that to mean that doctor bills would drop as well.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
How much time did you dedicate to write that?
Huge Linux Nerd:I DID NOT HAVE TO WRITE THAT, you n00b. I ALREADY HAVE 923 ANTI-M$ REBUTTALS AT MY HOME DIRECTORY "/home/animepedophile"!
All mechanisms, whether to restrict rights or expand them, can be corrupted. Does this mean that all mechanisms should be eliminated? The rule of one vote per person restricts a person's right to vote more than once. Should that be eliminated as well?
Just do what you're told, or you hate freedom.
My apologies, you are correct, I meant 256 colours.
Dave
Slashdot can go and get fucked.
Quote: "Why in god's name would you want a fully graphical openGL powered install sequence. All you're doing is installing the thing. #1 thing linux developers need to get over. It's not about graphics durring install, it's about fewer clicks (if you want to be ready for the desktop that is)"
You obviously haven't installed or used Mac OS X then have you! As to the fewer clicks, I believe Linspire installs in around 4 clicks. Try that with Microsoft Windows! Your comments have just proven how much you really don't know.
Quote: "You're really going to argue the point that one program that edit's text is better than another?"
Yes I am thank you. I do all my html in notepad at my workplace - using notepad is a pain in the ass! You run it [your html code] via the w3c html validator and it refers to an error on line 277. Tell me - notepad doesn't off you a line count option. Neither does Wordpad. So...you either count 277 lines (and waste time), or email it home, open it in something like kwrite, turn on line numbering and voila!
Quote: "We're arguing bloat here and I'll still maintain that notepad is less bloated than kedit."
You're arguing bloat actually. I didn't say anything about bloat, I talked about usability.
Quote: "sure GIMP is better but not everyone who sets up a PC needs a fully featured raster-based image editor"
No, they do not. My point was what was included with Microsoft Windows by default, vs pretty much any Linux distribution. MS Paint can only do so much. Want to open a graphics file larger than a mb? Forget it. I've seen it totally lock up a system, with a fucking huge memory leak! Even if you install MS Office, and use something like MS Photo editor, it's crippled - it won't open a file larger than a mb! Really great offerings from our friends Microsoft - NOT. The Gimp, on the otherhand, handles it nice and easily.
Quote: "Believe it or not, there's a huge array of free software available for us windows users too... even OSS! "
Yes, there is a reasonable amount of freeware available for the average Windows user. Finding it might be a different story though. You think your average person is going to easily find freeware? I don't think so. Again, with most modern Linux distributions you get a pretty damn nice choice.
Most Microsoft Windows users pirate software. They mightn't like to admit it, but they do. Why do they do so? Because, by default, Windows offers fuck all. And they don't want to go out paying a grand for Photoshop, money for this, money for that. They want to be able to use their computer, and use it cheaply, to do their average tasks. Not spend a fortune. Microsoft is happy to encourage the proprietary software business to keep everyone on the gravy train, nothing more, and nothing less. It's all about money, not their customers.
Quote: "Would someone be able to do it if they weren't a linux-fanboy? No."
I disagree. The average computer user isn't as dumb as you're making out. The vast majority of people that are trying Linux have friends who have introduced them to it, who are prepared to be part of a community and help. And by that, I'm not saying that Linux is difficult (which, in some instances, it can be - but so can Microsoft Windows). Put a new user in front of Windows and they'll get stuck as well. So don't go giving me any of that "it's too hard for the newbie" bullshit. Microsoft Windows isn't exactly helpful to the newbie either.
Quote: "I also realize that linux is nothing more than the kernel, and yes it's VERY VERY TINY."
Actually, the kernel isn't that tiny. It's growing exponentially between releases. A 2.6 kernel dwarfs a 2.4 kernel.
Quote: "But in order to get it to do anything meaningful you have to start piling on software and packages."
I disagree. You sure you're not using a very pared down Linux distribution, and then bitching because it doesn't offer much choice?
Quote: "Running a desktop where y
Slashdot can go and get fucked.
Who is the loser?
You.
Because:
What's it been, almost a year? If you just write a simple post saying "I'm sorry for unfairly attacking you" I'll be gone.
You have spent a year trying to get me to "say uncle".
You can't take the sky from me...