New iBooks 'Any Day Now'

teewurstmann writes "Thinksecret reports that 'sources have confirmed that Apple's consumer laptop will receive a long overdue refresh very soon, possibly as early as this week.' They speculate that the new iBooks might have a widescreen display. I sure hope they are right! I've been waiting to buy one of those suckers for half a year now!"

Comments

Finally.

[ph4te]

It's about time!

Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Consumer laptop? Who's their other line made for?

Re:Consumer laptop

[ari_j]

Chocolatiers.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

The other line is the Powerbook. Judging by the name, it's made for superheroes, I guess.

Either that or Bialystock and Bloom types *runs away*

Re:Consumer laptop

[ettlz]

Consumer laptop? Who's their other line made for?

Florists.

Re:Consumer laptop

[generic-man]

"Prosumers." You know, people who think they have to spend $600 more to get features like dual-monitor support that Apple cripples out of the iBook*.

(Posted from a 12" PowerBook)

* Apparently you have to hack an iBook to get its graphics card to do something it was built to do.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

As opposed to the coporate/business market. Go to HP and Dell and notice the difference in laptop offerings for Home/Personal(Consumer) and S/M/L Businesses. Apple is mainly viewed as only the catering to only the Home/Personal market.

Re:Consumer laptop

[xenoandroid]

Yep, but the hack isn't hard and sometimes I wonder if it was disabled for another reason. It seems that people who used the hack had more frequent issues with the logic board.

Re:Consumer laptop

[bedouin]

I noticed the exact same thing. Maybe the graphics chip gets too hot.

Re:Consumer laptop

[ottergoose]

I've never had a problem with my 800 12" iBook running my 19" display at 1280x1024, in addition to its own display.

Re:Consumer laptop

[generic-man]

Apple's logic boards fail on their own without any help. I'm amazed when people defend the existence hacks to include basic functionality (dual monitors on iBooks/iMacs; the 30-second skip button on TiVo) when competing products include the functionality out of the box -- no cheat code or patch required. The reason is to perpetuate the illusion of a more expensive product being "high-end" because it is not as crippled out of the box.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Alakaboo]

It's more like $900-1000, otherwise you're absolutely right.

(Posted from a 14" iBook.)

Re:Consumer laptop

[hackstraw]

"Prosumers." You know, people who think they have to spend $600 more to get features like dual-monitor support that Apple cripples out of the iBook*.

(Posted from a 12" PowerBook)

* Apparently you have to hack an iBook to get its graphics card to do something it was built to do.

Here is the hack: http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/supportlist_e. html

Re:Consumer laptop

[xenoandroid]

I know this, by higher frequency I mean they tend to fail faster because of the extra heat generated.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Good. Why do I need a hack to use hardware that has been artificially crippled? How can Mac-heads support the fact that Apple deliberately strips this feature out to wring more money from laptop buyers?

Re:Consumer laptop

[xenoandroid]

Maybe it's by coincidence but all but one of my logic board failures happened very soon after using a second display with my 14" 800G3 iBook.

Re:Consumer laptop

[toddestan]

Then why even put the port on the machine? Will it overheat if I run a second display in "clone" mode too?

Re:Consumer laptop

[BoldAndBusted]

Good. Why do I need a hack to use hardware that has been artificially crippled?

Because Apple is greedy like most giant corps are, and people still pay for crippled hardware if they like the marketing, apparently.

How can Mac-heads support the fact that Apple deliberately strips this feature out to wring more money from laptop buyers?

I can't, and many don't. But, who can account for starry-eyed fanboys/fangirls of any company or group?

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

No, cloning will run the 2nd display @ 1024x768. Instead of 2048x1536 if you were running dual mode with two 1024x768 displays. Also the GFX would be using the same amount of RAM for a mirror mode but using spanning it will increase the video RAM's usage.

Re:Consumer laptop

[raju1kabir]

Not necessarily (not that I have any knowledge on the veracity of the original claim). Piping out cloned video at 1024x768 is an awful lot less work than managing another screen at 1900x1200 (which I do with my iBook 12" when at home).

Re:Consumer laptop

[frostw]

You have multiple logic board failures?!?!

Re:Consumer laptop

[pearljam145]

Woohoo I am a superhero. Now bow to me!

Re:Consumer laptop

[charlie_vernacular]

Why the assumption that everyone wants to use dual monitors? I know VERY few people who use dual monitor set-ups, and the kinds of people at whom the iBook is aimed (not "power users") probably neither want nor need such a set up.

So for them it's not crippled. And for those for whom it matters, the possibility of the hack remains.

Re:Consumer laptop

[RAMMS EIN]

``Apparently you have to hack an iBook to get its graphics card to do something it was built to do.''

Or run Linux. Which, by the way, works impressively well (and a lot snappier than Panther) on iBooks these days. I installed the latest Ubuntu (5.04) the other day, and was surprised to find that everything works, even suspend. Only I need to figure out how to enable tap-to-click for the trackpad.

Re:Consumer laptop

[generic-man]

Why disable a feature that people don't use? I don't see your logic. Apple invested engineering time and effort to turn off a feature that the hardware provided for free -- and, if the vast majority of "hack" users are true, it's a feature that works very well. (I still don't buy the "it makes your logic board fail faster" deal, since Apple's iBook logic boards are pieces of shit no matter what.)

That reminds me of the way that Apple sells the same 20" monitors that Dell sells without the VGA connectors. Compare the Apple 20" with the Dell 20" Display if you don't believe me. (Yada yada different backlight yada yada silver coloring is worth hundreds of dollars)

Re:Consumer laptop

[Artega VH]

FYI the hack works fanstastically. Does everything I expected with no perceptible slowdown of my slowish 800mhz g4 ibook. Why they disabled it? Business reasons make sense but its stupid from a tech POV.

Re:Consumer laptop

[binary paladin]

Apple sells their displays at a premium because fanboys will buy them and people will pay for the brand. It's good business.

I was almost stupid enough to purchase the 20" Apple display with my Mini a couple months ago. Then... in a moment of clarity... I pulled my head out of my ass and did a bit of research and ended up getting a Samsung 21.3" screen with a MUCH better resolution (1600 x 1200) and brightness for like $200 cheaper.

Seriously, the only reason I was even considering the Apple display is so everything would "match." Again, I pulled my head out and remembered I was going to use my Logitech mouse and unmatching speakers. For a moment though, it was like my computer was making me go all "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy."

Anyway, I'm not really defending Apple except to say that their reasons are fiscally sound for them. I love my Mac, but I also have no illusions about the fact that Apple is a business.

Re:Consumer laptop

[penguinboy]

Everything except Airport Extreme wireless, that is.

Re:Consumer laptop

[ssimontis]

I don't even see how people use them. The one time I tried to use dual monitors with my laptop, I was overwhelmed, and ended up using the second screen to display static documents instead of anything really useful.

Re:Consumer laptop

[mikey1134]

Why is everybody horrified by this idea? Do you think Apple is the only company on the planet that does this? Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Ati do the exact same thing. When a new core comes out,they sell 1 version at the max speed and others, physically identical mind you, that are locked on slower speeds. Nobody here is screaming about how horrible they are for down clocking. This is marketing. If you want 2 monitors buy the powerbook. If, like most users, you won't need that you can get the iBook cheaper

Re:Consumer laptop

[generic-man]

Apple charges about $600 more for a PowerBook than an iBook. That's a differential larger than any you could show me for comparable-but-crippled products from Intel, AMD, Nvidia, or Ati.

Money talks. It also whines.

Re:Consumer laptop

[shmlco]

Apple is greedy... But, who can account for starry-eyed fanboys/fangirls of any company or group?

I know just what you mean. They're almost as bad as the "all corporations are evil" conspiracy theorists...

Re:Consumer laptop

[falconwolf]

As opposed to the coporate/business market. Go to HP and Dell and notice the difference in laptop offerings for Home/Personal(Consumer) and S/M/L Businesses. Apple is mainly viewed as only the catering to only the Home/Personal market.

How many designers and graphics artists do you know? Almost every one I knew would only use a Mac, a few way back when used Amigas. Though it's no longer true when I was using Quark Express many years ago there wasn't anything like it for PCs. While these various art and design apps have versions for Windows most shops I've known stick with Macs. Heck when I worked at Martin Marietta, now Lockheed Martin, the graphics department only used Macs even though PC were found in almost if not every other department.

Falcon

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

No silly...

Elephants!

Re:Consumer laptop

[Khuffie]

Apple's logic boards are always unreliable. Mine died, had to get it replaced, which also died promptly. This was on a powerbook.

Re:Consumer laptop

[klagg]

The differences between the iBook and PowerBook lines are much bigger than just a question of dual display capability. PowerBooks have faster CPU, faster hard drive, better quality case etc...

Also, the price difference between a 12" iBook and 12" PowerBook is $500, not $600.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Choosing the middle powerbook and not messing with options, i see a $2000 price....now for some simple math... using your figures leaves a $1400 ibook so the PB is 1.42 the price of the ibook.
Quick check on pricewatch shows athlon dual cores at 4800 for 2x the price of a 4200 ($1000 vs $500).
Assuming Apple became a saint and didn't cripple the iBooks, they'd probably not be able to sustain as much of a mark-up, and the iBooks would probably go up in price. watch what you wish for.

Re:Consumer laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

i have myself witnessed an ibook breaking down after several consecutive month of dual-screen use (with the hack applied that can be found somewhere else in this thread).

obviously, the graphic chip generates more heat when you activate dual screen support, and the ibooks don't have proper cooling for this case. from this account, it is understandable that they "cripple" the ibook, because it's cheaper to build.

Re:Consumer laptop

[fayk]

There is a larger difference between the Dell and Apple monitors than just 'not including' the vga port - how do you think the panel is displaying both? A D-A converted. This isn't present at all in the apple hardware.

Re:Consumer laptop

[TheRaven64]

What aspect ratio was the screen you bought in the end? I use a 23" Cinema HD and find it a lot nicer to work with than a 4:3 aspect screen. Since this was bought with someone else's money (for work use) I went with Apple, because it was easier than shopping around. Having read your post, I did look around and found a Samsung 24" widescreen monitor (the closes comparable - the same resolution as the 23" Apple display) for slightly more than the Apple display.

If you want a 4:3 screen, then you probably should have ruled out the Apple displays before you even looked at the price. If you're not bothered, then you undoubtedly got a good deal. If I were buying a display now, it would be fairly close between the Apple and Samsung models.

Re:Consumer laptop

[binary paladin]

It's a 4:3. Like I said it was 1600x1200. But seriously, the Apple screen is 80 pixels wider but 150 pixels shorter. The Samsung is bigger and brighter as well. The Apple does have USB and Firewire ports, which is a nice touch but the Samsung has both digital and analog in which is kinda nice because it currently serves me as a kind of KVM without the K or the M. Oh yeah, and the Samsung can rotate 90 degrees which can be handy on occasion.

I could be wrong, but at the time, I believe the Apple 20" was going for $899. It might have been $799 though, I don't remember. The Samsung was $650 with a $100 rebate (which Newegg didn't bother sending me the papers for).

Really though, if I've just plain got more pixels does the aspect ratio make a difference? And also, if there are fewer pixels, why on earth should the aspect ratio change the cost in any way? That just seems ridiculous to me.

Honestly, I was agnostic about the aspect ratio. I was looking for the most pixels, reasonable brightness, decent response time, digital out and something in the 20" - 22" range for a reasonable price. The Samsung 213T fit the bill. (And it comes in black and silver. Ironically, I went with black.)

Let me say that I don't think the Apple displays are crap, because they aren't. I think the 20" model is over priced though. Now, after reading your post and taking a look at the 23" Apple and the 24" Samsung, I see what you're talking about. (And Apple's pricing handily defeats Sony, but I do believe Sony's 23" offering has a better response time, brightness, etc.)

Sadly, I think if I was in your shoes I would probably go with the Apple display at 23" for the following reasons:

1. I've become a brand whore.

2. To get a good price on the Samsung I can't buy it locally. (Fry's charges a lot more than Newegg.) I can buy the Apple display for the price listed at Fry's or my local Apple store.

3. Apple items generally have more attention to detail. There's the USB hub and Firewire connection. Its cable management is also better.

4. The Samsung has a better contrast ratio but the Apple has a much better response time.

5. It matches other Apple stuff.

Apple isn't the clear winner. Sometimes size trumps pretty much everything else. Anyway, I don't know why I felt the need to get into this, but I do have to revise what I said before. Apple's 20" screen is overpriced, but the 23" is very competative (as in, not just for fanboys). I didn't bother looking at the 30" and doing any comparisons since at that point, cost isn't really an issue anyway.

Re:Consumer laptop

[generic-man]

You just gave a great argument for Apple charging less than Dell does; Apple includes less hardware in its monitors. Yet they still charge at least twice as much as Dell does for what is virtually the same piece of hardware (with fewer features).

Re:Consumer laptop

[fayk]

I think that suddenly shifting your perspective like - after originally claiming that apple was essentially just disabling a port - that is a bit intellectually dishonest for the purposes of this argument. (Your words were "sells the same 20" monitors that Dell sells without the VGA connectors.")
Beyond that, the other differences (USB hub on the dell, vs the (different part, I'm sure) USB hub and FireWire hub on the Apple, et cetera) are up to a consumer to weigh and decide which they want - Apple hasn't done any deceptive advertising, have they?

In your other post - the one about the iBook needing a hack to enable spanning (as opposed to mirroring) - have you considered that just because the -video- hardware can do it, that maybe it is disabled because it is not a supported configuration? (For thermal reasons or otherwise). Presumably neither of us designed the iBook, so this may have to be left open - but would you feel less 'cheated' if it was hard-wired to prevent multiple monitors? If they used a chip that did not support it, perhaps?

I don't know enough about monitors to really say one way or another, but I have also heard some people voice a preference for a monitor that doesn't pass the signal through one of these (D-A converters)

The panel for the monitors is the same, but the rest of the hardware is different.

The Dell monitor certainly has price going for it (and I'm assuming that no one is going to argue for the coupon stacking that can be done to be the 'real' price, but even so) but the Apple monitor also has a very nice design - beyond just looks, there's something to be said for having an enclosed design that uses the frame as a heat sink rather than having exposed vents for dust and everything to get in.

Why?

[Quasar1999]

With them moving to a whole new chipset for 'power' reasons, why not wait till they get the intel based laptops out?

Re:Why?

[Golias]

why not wait till they get the intel based laptops out?

Maybe because Intel-based Macs are more than a year off, and some people need a computer now, and would like it to be reasonably up-to-date.

Just a theory.

Re:Why?

[adamjaskie]

Because it has already been 9 months or so since the last update of the iBook, and Mactels aren't due until 2006. They need something fresh on the market for back to school.

Re:Why?

[fracai]

Because some people like (need) to be productive now, not a year from now.
Because the new laptops will be just as effective at tasks as they would have been without knowledge of a new processor line.
Because computers are always being upgraded and waiting for the next best line to come out means you never make a purchase.

I think that about sums up most of the arguments.

Re:Why?

[John Harrison]

also, the intel decision was made relatively recently. I would guess that they have been working on this new hardware for quite some time. It would be silly to throw out all that work and give up on the martket until an Intel-based solution is ready for market.

Also, it is back-to-school time. The iBook is the one machine that is key to have refreshed for this season. College kids are going to want to buy a fresh iBook instead of a year-old one.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's ridicilous!
They should just wait!

Re:Why?

[InadequateCamel]

I think you have overlooked those self-described "purists" who want to buy (one of) the last of the PPC systems.

Re:Why?

[jerkychew]

I'd assume that the build cycle on laptops is pretty long - you're designing the whole enclosure and all of its parts to work tightly together, pun intended.

If the holdup was a chipset, it's likely that they've been sitting on the final design for a long time now. To scrap it at this point would cost a ton of money, especially since it's been what, ten months since the last ibooks came out?

And finally, When are the Intel-based Macs due? 2006? 2007? It's not worth delaying a product launch that long just to wait for the new architecture, especially since nobody's heard anything about Intel-based *books yet.

Re:Why?

[Alex P Keaton in da]

Exactly- and to capitalize on the Ipod craze- The Ipod could be great marketing for the Ibook- A nice white laptop to take back to school with the nice white Ipod. You have to have a new product to sell to the trendy kids. (Not a dig at Mac people.... I am just saying if you can sell you product to the faithful, and get to people who want the latest thing (fashion wise) you can make some $$$$. Hopefully this will convert some people to Mac-
In my day, after walking uphill to school, we used macs exclusively- they used to be the education machine, remember?

Re:Why?

[shotfeel]

And if you take a look at their current promotions, its "buy a qualifying Mac and get a free iPod mini."

That' deal is "Exclusively for college students."

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mostly because those systems are not ready yet, and they can't allow their present product line to stagnate, otherwise more people will say, "Meh, I'll wait for the new ones" and sales will plummet. Certainly not good for their bottom line.

Re:Why?

[jacksonj04]

If Apple made a proper, modern tablet PC with decent tag-based notekeeping software then it would take over the education sector. I'd pay quite a chunk of cash for an Apple tablet to keep my notes on.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

f*** em. let the purists buy an expensive IBM POWER machine if they want to be such douche bags.

Re:Why?

[pilgrim23]

There are SOME things a Mactel upgrade just won't address though. One is Altivec. Yes yes, I know, I read the stuff too, don't mean diddly. Well, I am just a dummy on all the benchmark jazz, but: I usually do video encoding on a dual 867 G4 or a Dual 1.8 G5. On occasion, when something has a Windoz only codec I run a encode on a 3.something ghz P4 I built. -this was a Frys bare bones box with some goodies I added.
I can say that the dualie G4 beats the P4 every time in speed on encodes; and enven as a dual it be WAY slower. I would welcome a faster iBook as my 1ghz one is now feeling just a little bit sluggish and I would dearly love a good reason to pass it to my son and get a new playtoy!

Re:Why?

[iowannaski]

Why on earth would you want to take notes with a stylus on a tablet PC?

Every school I have ever attended has equipped its classrooms with desks and chairs, allowing students to sit and type if they so desired.

Is this not the case in your experience?

Re:Why?

[Anarchitect_in_oz]

You can't doodle rude pictures of your lecturer or class mates with a keyboard can you. That's reason enough for me.

Re:Why?

[adamjaskie]

I never understood this either. I can type a HELL of a lot faster than I can write. Not to mention my handwriting is so sloppy the computer probably couldn't recognise it. Heck, I can't recognise it half the time!

Re:Why?

[Helvidius]

I would imagine that when the announce a new PowerBook, it will have the Intel chips in it. I would wait until then to buy a Mac, so that, if necessary, I could use the same hardware to dual-boot into Windows.

Re:Why?

[falconwolf]

why not wait till they get the intel based laptops out?

Maybe because Intel-based Macs are more than a year off, and some people need a computer now, and would like it to be reasonably up-to-date.

From what I recall Apple is supposed to have the first Intel Macs out in the spring.

Falcon

Re:Why?

[falconwolf]

You can't doodle rude pictures of your lecturer or class mates with a keyboard can you. That's reason enough for me.

You can with the tablet's stylus.

Falcon

Re:Why?

[Anarchitect_in_oz]

Yes you can.
Results do vary based on artistic skill.

Matt

Re:Why?

[jacksonj04]

Keyboards have difficulty with a lot of mathematical and scientific notation, that's why.

Yes my school has tables and chairs, but I'd rather be able to scrawl, draw arrows, and actually use the correct notation whilst not having screens blocking my view of people.

Re:Why?

[wild_berry]

This is Slashdot. I'm surprised that people here don't have more talent with ASCII art...

Wrong AR

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO 4:3 is still the only truly useful aspect ratio! ;)

Re:Wrong AR

[Rico_Suave]

Meh. Between my 16:10 AR monitor at home and my dual monitor setup at work, I'll never go back to the "square" screen.

Re:Wrong AR

[toddestan]

Agreed. When are people going to figure out that widescreen is awful for just about every computer task out there besides watching movies and playing certain games?

Re:Wrong AR

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the undeserved -1,troll.

Re:Wrong AR

[anagama]

I disagree. I like widescreen because it lets me have a few windows overlapping each other without artifically narrowing the window width. My desktop monitor is a standrd 1280x1024 -- nothing wrong with that, but after using a widescreen on my 15" powerbook, it feels like I'm missing the edges off of my screen when using my desktop. My next desktop monitor will be a widescreen.

Re:Wrong AR

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got a Powerbook a couple of weeks ago, after using an iBook for three years. At first, I wasn't sure what advantage, if any, I would get from a widescreen display. BUT, then I realized that I could, for example, have Emacs and a terminal up on the right half of the screen, and a web browser with API docs up on the left half of the screen, and see all of it at the same time.

Sure, you can do that with a non-wide screen, sufficiently high-res monitor, but with the widescreen, it just seems to look better.

I dunno, might just be my opinion, but I'm sold on widescreen displays now.

Re:Wrong AR

[Shaklee39]

Disagreed. I have the Dell 2005FPW and run it at the maximum resolution (widescreen). It is MUCH better to work with than the other screens I had. I can have a word processor open with 2 pages the size of the 1 that my old monitor had. Oh, and I don't play games or watch movies.

Re:Wrong AR

[TheRaven64]

Interesting. Are you blind, or visually impaired in one eye? Those of us with two working eyes have a field of view that is much wider than it is high, so a widescreen display is more useful. We also find that being able to put two documents on screen next to each other is useful (e.g. code editor and help window, or article and source material).

CPU?

[LurkerXXX]

But will they have the new fast, low-power chips that IBM recently announced?

Re:CPU?

[Golias]

If I had to guess, it will be the same 1.4 GHz G4 that's going into the mini and the eMac.

The iBook is Apple's "budget" laptop. If they do an IBM G5 based one, it will probably be in the PowerBook line.

Re:CPU?

[illumin8]

But will they have the new fast, low-power chips that IBM recently announced?

No, why would Apple put a G5 in the iBook when it hasn't even made it to the PowerBook yet?

Obligatory rant...

[Alakaboo]

Oh, no! I just bought an iBook ten months ago! Now it's obsolete. Apple obviously doesn't care about customer loyalty.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[doughrama]

Yeah Apple totally sucks. I was trying to copy a single 15MB file from one hard drive to the other on this new dual G5. It took like over 20 minutes.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[tsa]

Yeah. I just got mine last week, and now I hear next week it'll be totally useless. Way to go Apple!

Re:Obligatory rant...

[smithcl8]

What are you saying here? The fact is, regardless of the laptop you buy, the same thing always happens. Sure, if you buy a PC laptop the processor won't change much, but if you think you can buy one today and not get a faster one for the same price in 3 months, you're wrong. Laptops aren't the same as desktops. Once you get one, you pretty much are stuck. They aren't nearly as upgradable as a desktop, but that's the price you pay for something so portable. Besides, Tiger will run a little faster on a new system, but other than that, big deal!

Re:Obligatory rant...

[squiggleslash]

Yeah, I just finished downloading my iBook, burning CDs, and installing it!

Oh, hold on, different type of update.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, your new one is being shipped even as we speak.

-- Apple Support

Re:Obligatory rant...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a joke, buddy.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[themoodykid]

Does it feel snappier than the previous version?

Re:Obligatory rant...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it only costs another 2000 dollars. And don't think you'll get away without repurchasing your full screen video privileges!

Re:Obligatory rant...

[raju1kabir]

Yeah, and the mouse only has one button, and you can't get Visio for it. Doorstops if you ask me. Don't get me started on trying to copy a floppy on my 128K Mac.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[bfischer]

Whooosh! Whoosh!

That was the sound of two jokes going over your head. ;)

Re:Obligatory rant...

[adachan]

Have you ever asked an apple store to backup your data from a hard drive in an emac with a bad monitor?

Here is the lowdown. There is a problem with the monitors in a number of the emacs -- do a search on google for monitor and emac and you will see this is the case.

Anyway, a friend of mine asked the Apple store how much it would be to fix the monitor and they quoted her a price of $500 USD!!!! Now, this is kind of expensive for a 17 inch CRT, but in addition, they told her they could backup the data from the hard drive to a DVD for only $200 USD. ONLY 200$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a bargain!!!!

This is NOT good customer support. The computer was 1 year and 1 month old at the time. She was told that she should have bought the applecare warrenty and they could fix it. Well, this is true, but what it means is that if you want support for your Mac at all, you had better have bought that extra warrenty.

I think, if Apple really cared about customers, they would repair these things for reasonalbe costs . The dont need to lose money at all, rather just repair them at a nominal cost. Either this, or let us buy the parts to fix the computers ourselves. This is really the better option in my opinion, but alas Apple does not sell their parts to anyone except authorized shops.

Anyway, her experience in dealing with customer support at Apple has really pushed me away from buying a Mac. There is virtually no support unless you buy the extra warrenty. In additon, the lack of spare parts is a big negative. No computer is worth that much extra money no matter the OS. Linux and Windows XP work fine for me and I can use pretty much any old monitor I want.

Re:Obligatory rant...

[MoneyT]

$500 for a new 17 inch CRT, taking apart the entire system, installing, testing etc for $500 is about what you would pay at any computer shop. And remember that Apple doesn't bill you by the hour. I mean hell, compUSA for a basic repiar starts at $100 + parts.

As far as the waranty thing, that's the computer business and every other company is the same way. You think Dell is going to repair your computer out of waranty for free or "reasonable" prices? I don't think so. If you want to go out and buy a CRT to put in your eMac, what's stopping you?

As for Apple not sellign their service parts to anyone except authorized shops, they do that for a reason. Because when it breaks, they hear about it, which means they want to be sure the people doing their repairs are doing it right.

Customers are stupid and they don't understand the concept of if you do third party stuff, the original manufacturer can't guarantee it. Do you know how many irate customers have sent nasty letters to Apple because when it turned out that their El Cheapo RAM from Korea was the cause of their problems and Apple told them they'd have to replace the RAM, they decided this was Apple's fault?

Especially with Apple, they have a name to protect, and if that means that Joe Schmoe's Computer and Strip Club can't do repairs and that the techie consumer will have to void his waranty to do his own repairs, that's a smaller price than every moron on the other end of a keyboad bitching at Apple when Joe Schmoe's joint fucks up a repair.

Last but not least, you can use any old monitor you want on any mac system. The reason she replaced the eMac monitor is because it's a physical part of the system. She could have just as easily attached an external VGA monitor, but that wouldn't look right now would it?

Re:Obligatory rant...

[Dave2 Wickham]

Simple workaround for that; don't copy that floppy.

Better screens

[djtripp]

Wide screen would be nice, but it would be even better if they are using screens similar to the Sony Vaios. Those screens are very very sharp and crisp.

Re:Better screens

[Peter Cooper]

I agree.

I think Apple's screen quality is surrounded in a lot of hype. I'm a real Mac die-hard these days, but I don't think the screens live up to what I've heard. I remember people claiming the iBook and PowerBook screens were amazingly "bright and crisp". Okay, the color accuracy is amazing, but bright? My iBook is not particularly bright at full brightness, and neither are any of the PowerBooks I've looked after or worked on. Put it this way, my father's Acer (avoid with a barge pole) has a much brighter and crisper screen than any Apple notebook I've seen. Even better are those Sony glare-free "coated" TFTs, which have insanely bright and vivid colors.

Re:Better screens

[guildsolutions]

I have a 17" Powerbook and the screen is perfectly clear and sharp, very much more so than my old SXGA Dell. There is no problems with brightness, contrast, sharpness, or anything. Watching high action movies on it is superb also.

Re:Better screens

[gardyloo]

I'm interested why you say to avoid the Acer. They had a bad reputation several years ago, as far as I know, but things are a lot better now. In any case, my Travelmate is really a great little computer. Runs extremely quietly, very fast, has good battery life, a good, sharp screen (my complaint here is that it has a quite small "sweet spot"), and is great for some tough numeric work and presentations. If I were asked to recommend an all-around laptop to someone who doesn't want to lug a big media center laptop about, it would be an Acer (at least based on my -- very limited -- experience with this one).
Oh, and when I spilled some water on the keyboard and it went fritzy, their customer service was extremely helpful, and I had a new replacement here in two days. Meanwhile, I just snagged a USB keyboard from an iMac, plugged it in (Mepis linux), and it just worked.

Re:Better screens

[ungulation]

I know fujitsu also has this coating and so does hp (they call it brightview). Could anyone explain what it is or how it works? Is it even the coating which makes it brighter or is it something related to the display or backlight?

Re:Better screens

[OmniVector]

i really hope you're not talking about those shiny, glare prone, xbrite screens? those things are awful.

Re:Better screens

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure the Sonys are using two CCFLs for the backlight instead of one.

Re:Better screens

[Sentry21]

My 12" Powerbook G4 (purchased in September), is completely unusable if there is sunlight within my field of vision - I literally can't even see if there's something on the screen unless I shade my eyes. If I am using it, it has to be indoors and out of the sun (which sucks because my desk faces my window to avoid glare on the screen).

Fantastic machine, mediocre LCD.

Re:Better screens

[badasscat]

I know fujitsu also has this coating and so does hp (they call it brightview). Could anyone explain what it is or how it works? Is it even the coating which makes it brighter or is it something related to the display or backlight?

They may be doing something different with the backlight but I'm sure the screen coating is just affecting light refraction, which helps create a wider viewing angle. I'm not convinced that these screens are in any way actually "brighter" than regular LCD screens (in fact, almost every LCD screen I've used over the past three years has been too bright by default, special coating or not), but they do have somewhat better viewing angles.

I think these screens are basically a gimmick, though, because I think what most people are seeing when they seem so impressive in a showroom is just the "glossiness" of the glass-like coating. In actual use, I can't see this being anything other than a distraction.

The two big things I've noticed from these screens whenever I've seen them in a store are the ease with which they attract fingerprints and dust and the almost ludicrous level of glare. The whole point of not having any kind of coating on most LCD screens is that it reduces glare to almost nothing - "Brightview" screens negate that advantage completely.

I personally would not buy a screen with this sort of coating on it. There are reasons why pro level LCD monitors (like Apple's own Cinema Displays) do not have this sort of thing. IMO, it's just a gimmick to jack up the price of otherwise cheap laptops to people who don't know any better.

btw, to return to an earlier point... there's no big mystery to making a "bright" LCD screen. Stick a really strong backlight in it and you're done. Any designer or photographer, though, will tell you that there is a limit to how bright a screen should be (heck, all you've gotta know is you're not supposed to look directly at the sun to also know that there are absolute limits to the brightness level we can comfortably tolerate), and most modern LCD's are beyond that limit as it is unless you dial them down.

That doesn't mean the current iBook's screen is not sub-par, though - I haven't really looked at them. There are probably still screens out there that are dimmer than most.

Re:Better screens

[DrXym]

I have an Acer Travelmate 803 in my menagerie of computers and I haven't had much trouble with it at all. The screen is excellent, the wireless works well, the keyboard is spacious, it has lots of ports (4 USB & 1 Firewire) and it's pretty fast for the price I paid for it.

The only gripe (and it is a big gripe) is that the 3D support sucks. It does have accelerated 3D but the ATI Radeon driver is horrible and hasn't been upgraded. I hate manufacturers that just dump machines after 6 or 12 months on the market with barely any support after that. It's not just Acer but HP and no doubt others too.

Re:Better screens

[PeteDotNu]

Yep, I have the same problem. The display on the Sony Vaio, however, responds much better under these conditions. Considering that one of the reasons that I bought an iBook was that I wanted a computer that I could take into the garden, I'm a teency bit miffed.

Re:Better screens

[MarkoNo5]

My Acer Travelmate has been in repair for a total of 6 months within the 2 years that I have it! 2 times 3 months. The incompetent service people broke it several times (they forgot to reattach the videocard cooling block twice! 2 mainboard toasted), and now they have made little scratches on my screen, which they refuse to fix. Stay away from Acer!

Re:Better screens

[sbryant]

The simple answer is that you should have bought one with the nVidia chipset instead of the ATI one.

My current laptop has an ATI graphic card. The drivers for Windows haven't been updated in ages; it's up to the manufacturer to do so as ATI won't provide any directly. Linux support is minimal (no 3D, certain other things don't work/aren't supported).

My next laptop will have an nVidia graphics card. They support the laptop graphics cards in the reference driver, and their Linux drivers work much better than ATI's. Some people complain (legitimately) that nVidia's Linux drivers aren't open source; I can understand that, but I want something that works, and nVidia's the best choice in that respect.

-- Steve

Re:Better screens

[Peter Cooper]

I ran an "Acer Sucks" campaign for my father a few months ago. His machine broke, he sent it in.. and it took them seven weeks to fix and return it, under threat of lawsuit.

Not a one-off either, it seems most people who go through their UK support operation (which isn't even part of Acer) have similar complaints. Even if it's just a UK thing, it still reflects on Acer, and they should invest the money to make their support worthwhile in every country they want to work with. Other than that, the machine was cheap and is very well featured, but.. things are only as good as the weakest part of the chain.

Re:Better screens

[tavilach]

The glare is awful, but I'd find it hard to believe that the glossiness of the screen is solely responsible for the brightness.

Then again, people who buy this must think it is!

Have we learned the difference b/w news and rumor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently not.

it would be much better

[VolciMaster]

if this were an actual news story, and not just another rumor posting. Yes, Thinksecret has gotten stuff right in the past, they've also blown it a couple times. As opposed to the recent items about the video iPod, which at least have backing in terms of talks between different companies, and multiple reports, citing not all the same sources, this item, while fun to think about, isn't news. It's a rumor, out of one of the more famous rumor mills.

Re:it would be much better

[djtripp]

They seem to have a pretty good track record, unlike other sites that post anything. And yes, it is a rumor, but its also a stale rumor.

Re:it would be much better

[Secret Agent 99]

Not only stale, but the kind of rumor that's so bloody obvious that it must eventually come true.

Re:it would be much better

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The reason they are famous is that they've been right a lot more often than other Apple rumor sites. This is in part because they've been given insider information on a regular basis.

Re:it would be much better

[dr.badass]

Yes, Thinksecret has gotten stuff right in the past, they've also blown it a couple times.

Importantly, they have blown it pretty consistently since they got sued for misappropriating trade secrets.

Cool ... but the real question is ...

[polyp2000]

What processor will be powering them - considering intel based mac's are on the horizon ; How is this going to affect the up take?

Nick...

Re:Cool ... but the real question is ...

[Anonymous Coward]

No freaking way will these be anything but PPC...

Re:Cool ... but the real question is ...

[adamjaskie]

A slightly faster G4, along with probably more base memory, larger base hard drive, better video card, stuff like that. Possibly widescreen. Mactels are due in '06. A G4 speedbump has been waiting for like 9 months now already. It is long overdue, really.

Re:Cool ... but the real question is ...

[squiggleslash]

I have it on good authority that Apple is going to pull a rabbit out from their hat. They're actually going to put hither-to unannounced 2GHz Motorola 68060s in this one. Apparently, Apple has had OS X running on '060s, Pentiums, and PowerPCs over the last few years. But that's not all.

In August, they'll be announcing the new range of PowerBooks. These will be powered by 2.5GHz ARM CPUs. And in September, the new Xserve 65816s will be launched, running the latest generation 6502s. SPARC based iMacs will follow in November.

Finally, in January, you'll see the first Intel based Mac. While some will consider a 4.77MHz 8088* a little slow in today's computing environment, there's little doubt that the power savings alone will make the switchover worthwhile.

* Note, selected models will feature the NEC V20, depending on availability and demand.

Re:Cool ... but the real question is ...

[argent]

Note, selected models will feature the NEC V20, depending on availability and demand.

Will they include CP/M-80 emulation so we can finally run Microsoft M80 and L80 on a Mac?

Plus, what about Alpha-based models? We need dual-boot to either Tru64 or VMS, of course.

Re:Cool ... but the real question is ...

[stalky14]

Hey, I'd love a computer based on a 2ghz 68060!
It would be fast as hell and easy to program.
Nice bus architecture, good memory addressing scheme...

Put this back in the oven

[HTTP Error 403 403.9]

This story is not fully cooked.

Re:Put this back in the oven

[Anonymous Coward]

Set it on the logic board of my G3 iBook, that should toast it up nice and crispy. Oops, too late, it just died again.

Very specific details

[Nytewynd]

Details of the updated iBook are unknown, as is a firm release date, given the fickle nature of hardware updates.

The only thing we get out of this is that they are planning on revising the iBook, but we don't know how or when.

Re:Very specific details

[gstoddart]

Details of the updated iBook are unknown, as is a firm release date, given the fickle nature of hardware updates.

The only thing we get out of this is that they are planning on revising the iBook, but we don't know how or when.

And the only thing we know about Longhorn is that it will eventually exist.

These "nothing to report yet" stories do get annoying don't they?

Everyone is clambering to report that they don't know more than ysterday, but that they're the first to report it.

Re:Very specific details

[Scudsucker]

Everyone is clambering to report that they don't know more than ysterday, but that they're the first to report it.

They copied this from the regular press, who perfected the method during the O.J. trial. "The top story of the hour is the O.J. Simpson trial, in which nothing has changed in two months...."

So?

[tktk]

It's been "Any Day Now" for months.

If you check the Mac Buyer's Guide it's way overdue.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

Re:So?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

It's been "Any Day Now" for months. If you check the Mac Buyer's Guide it's way overdue.

A friend in Cupertino tells me they're waiting for Duke Nukem Forever to be released on OSX, so they can show off the new Mac's new graphical posibilities in tradeshows...

Big Raise.. Any Day Now

[IcyNeko]

I'd love to get one of these babies, but I'm so not rich and running low on the cash. :| my friend has one and man oh man are they sweet.

Re:Big Raise.. Any Day Now

[Anonymous Coward]

iBooks? Are actually pretty cheap any way you look at it. You mean powerbooks I guess?

Re:Big Raise.. Any Day Now

[IcyNeko]

I can't even afford a cheap wallhanger off of ebay ($30) let alone a sweet, sweet iBook.

Screen Speculation

[Gropo]

12 x 7 on a 14" screen would be the logical choice. Perhaps the new iBooks will sport the next wave in Apple's more general laptop design, much as the original iBook did, and later as the icebook heralded the era of "white-is-for-consumer".

Re:Screen Speculation

[Secret Agent 99]

The original iBook was hardly "next wave": its generally curvy lines and clamshell broadly resembled the Wallstreet and Lombard PowerBooks that preceded it; the colour schemes resembled the iMac, which also preceded it. The icebook suits your point much better. Not only did it herald "white is for consumer," it provided the template for the 12" PowerBook.

All lot will wait for Intel

[RUFFyamahaRYDER]

A lot of people are going to hang on to their older Apple laptops until they have the faster Intel chip version... I was considering getting an iBook (even though I'm mostly a windows/linux guy) but I stopped considering it until Intel starts producing the faster chips.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are all these Intel comments tagged as "insightful"? Even my mom knows that apple is moving to intel and the prospect will affect buying trends. It's not insightful at all; it's obvious.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[bedouin]

If you let the Intel switch affect your purchase of an Apple product, at least now, you're being stupid.

The last PPC based Mac will be released in 2007. Judging from the 68k > PPC transition, that will likely mean PPC will be supported into 2010 -- at least.

So you'd be buying a machine that will be supported and up to date for 5 more years. Considering the average person probably doesn't even grasp what's going on under the hood in the first place, I wouldn't overestimate the impact of switching on sales. My friend who is fed up with his Viao is still going to buy an iBook in the fall, and that's probably the case of many people.

Not to mention, I'd happily buy a G5 PowerMac even in 2007, just to have the last of PPC machines. Remember, Apple had to keep the G4 PowerMacs around sometime after the G5s were released, just because there was still a sizable demand for OS 9 bootable machines.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[RUFFyamahaRYDER]

I fail to see how I'm being stupid. Having this laptop isn't a neccesity to me at all. I'm sure the PPC will be supported for a very long time... that wasn't my concern at all. I'm just waiting to see how much of a speed increase there will be when using the Intel chips, because I can wait.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[Hadlock]

Either you're a troll, or you're very confident that everybody shares your opinion, or you're trying to act smart on the internet. Either way, as an Apple laptop owner, I'll be upgrading when the intel powerbook is released. Why? For speed. The intel powerbooks will be faster. I'm not worried about being left behind as a PPC user, I'm pretty confident Apple will continue to support their legacy users. Hell, AOL still releases their AIM client as a FAT binary (the 68k/PPC version, not the PPC/Intel type). The 2ghz intel Powerbooks will represent a 20-50% jump in speed over their top of the line G4 brethen; and a 400% jump over my current 550mhz G4 Powerbook.

In addition to getting a faster toy, you get possible dual windows booting, significantly faster windows emulation, and scores of other features that will be realized as people start to write more and more x86 specific code. The jump to Intel won't be as major as the jump from OS9, so there's little reason to stick with what will quickly become "legacy" hardware. And I'm sure many long time apple users are willing to stick it out another 6-9 months for a proper upgrade; I certianly am.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[Mr. Underbridge]

If you let the Intel switch affect your purchase of an Apple product, at least now, you're being stupid.

Depends where you are in your purchase cycle. Assuming intel powerbooks come out in 1.5 years, and I've had my laptop for 3 years, I can do one of two things: get a new one now, a little early, or wait a year and a half, pushing it a little, but getting a monster laptop when the intels come out, one that I'll be able to dual- or treble-boot.

If you need a laptop right now, then yeah, going without one is stupid. But the closer apple gets to releasing intel machines, the more their PPC sales will go down.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[blamanj]

In addition to getting a faster toy, you get...

You'll also be shelling out for more software. Yes, I know about Rosetta, but it you really care about speed, then you'll want the native code. Now if you think that Adobe, Microsoft, and all the rest are just going to send you a free upgrade, you're sadly deluded.

The native release will be free, of course, but only when you purchase the next version. So, you can buy the last generation PPC and run with existing software, or buy the first Intel generation and pay for the software upgrades (or live with the Rosetta performance penalty.)

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[bedouin]

As a consumer, your demographic is a minority. In Apple's case, it's a sizable minority, but still a minority.

The average person looking to buy or upgrade their machine mainly wants to know four things. Is it faster than what I have now? Does it have more features than my current machine? Will it have a reasonable life span? Does it meet my needs, and my future needs?

Does Apple's current line meet all of those requirements? Yes.

End of story. A teacher purchasing a laptop to create some Keynote/Powerpoint slides doesn't care if gcc compiles programs 25% faster than before, and my mom doesn't need a 25% increase in CPU power to use Safari and MS Office for work.

As far as legacy machines are concerned, most of the apps I've currently purchased would run in emulation on x86 Macs, cutting performance by 25-50% anyway, so what use is all this extra power I've suddenly inherited? Many of the apps I use are one generation behind the current release, and will likely never see an x86 port -- though they suit me fine.

And I'm sure many long time apple users are willing to stick it out another 6-9 months for a proper upgrade; I certianly am.

A proper upgrade to me would be waiting a generation or two after the switch occurs, letting other people endure the rough ride. Do you think all software manufactures are going to have x86 ports ready upon release? Do you really trust Rosetta is going to be flawless? Glitches will exist, and I'd rather let someone else be the guinea pig.

Will Apple lose some sales in the next coming months? Yep. Will it be as significant as people think? I doubt it.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[Hadlock]

What are you talking about? They send me new free releases all the time! That's why everyone's investing so heavily in distributed networks, isn't it?

/hasn't paid for software since 2000, except for the student price ($5) MS Office:Mac

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[boomerny]

my reasoning exactly. The Pismo is getting pretty old now, but it's still running strong after some upgrades(Panther, bunch of RAM, bigger&faster HD). I don't NEED a new machine now (although it would be nice), so I'm gonna hold out for the Intel Powerbooks, possibly even the rev B models just to be safe. That may be stretching the lifespan of my current machine a bit too much though.

Re:All lot will wait for Intel

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I plan to do just the opposite of waiting for Intel. I plan to buy a few more Apples (a laptop and a desktop) before they are infected with Intel chips.

Tablet?

[pablonhd]

Mabey they will introduce a tablet version?

Re:Tablet?

[kevcol]

Mabey they will introduce a tablet version?

I find that hard to swallow.

Re:Tablet?

[crywolf]

Kind of like the iSophagus?

You mean "StealSecrets.com", don't you?

[Anonymous Coward]

a MUCH more appropriate name.

Think Secret has blown it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Think Secret has blown it in the past. I remember when several years ago, they predicted that Apple would come out with orange notebook computers that were modeled after a toilet seat. Sheesh, what idiots.

Re:Think Secret has blown it.

[wild_berry]

The original iBooks? What idiots! :P

I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[pHatidic]

Why would Apple make a widescreen laptop? These laptops are meant for schools, which means the pricepoint they have to sell at remains basically a constant. Since the price of screens hasn't really come down since October 2004, why would Apple make a more expensive model now when they weren't willing to before? Almost everyone over school age gets the powerbook as it a prettier, albeit less durable. I highly doubt schools will be willing to shell out an extra $150 bucks for an extra inch on the monitor, which is why I think this rumor is highly unlikely to come true.

My guess is that the update will include the two finger scroll pad, the hard drive drop detection, for about 100 bucks cheaper. Since the iBook is almost as fast as the powerbook I doubt that they would make the iBook any faster for fear of cannibalizing the high end market.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Hellasboy]

since when do widescreen notebooks mean they are more expensive? There was a Compaq 14.1" widescreen being sold for 399$ last week. I walked into best buy last month and of the 15 or so models in the store, 12 of them were widescreen.

ibook != powerbook. why would they release a new version and not a speed update?

"This is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!"

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[takotech]

Why would Apple make a widescreen laptop?

The 15"(1280 x 854) and 17"(1440 x 900) Powerbooks are widescreen.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[BioCS.Nerd]

I respectfully disagree that this next update won't include a widescreen display. The next line of iBooks will have a widescreen display as Apple needs to keep up the pressure and incentives on their consumer line. I would have bought an iBook instead of my Powerbook, for instance, had Apple offered a widescreen display.

Lastly, new != more expensive. The widescreen display may in fact cost less than the current display. For instance, perhaps the manufacturer wants to move away from the old style because it's cheaper to produce the newer style. They may offer a price incentive for their customers to cease production of the old, more costly version (we do this sometimes where I work with new product formulations, i.e. move to a new cheaper formula, charge less, but retain the margins).

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!"

Pedophilia? Bestiality? Both?

;)

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[mrchaotica]

Why wouldn't Apple give them a widescreen display? Their other consumer-oriented computer (iMac) has one...

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Experiment 626]

Why would Apple make a widescreen laptop?

Why wouldn't they? A 15" widescreen (9:16 ratio) has almost identical total surface area to a 14" standard (3:4 ratio) screen, so despite the $150 figure you throw out, the cost to mass-produce them should be quite comparable. Yet of the two, the widescreen sounds more impressive (ooh it's got a widescreen) beats the other screen on the spec sheet (15" > 14"), and to many people looks larger. And going from standard to widescreen without bumping up the diagonal would actually save Apple some money, as a screen with the same diagonal measurement could be produced with a smaller surface area of LCD.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[CrazyWingman]

powerbook as it a prettier, albeit less durable.

Huh? This is the first time I have ever heard of the PB being less durable than the iBook. Did something change recently?

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Psykechan]

I would have bought an iBook instead of my Powerbook, for instance, had Apple offered a widescreen display.

Yep. Someone at Apple still cries themselves to sleep at night over that lost iBook sale. Wait a sec, you bought a Powerbook. What did Apple lose on this deal?

The iBook, as well as Apple's whole consumer line, has to straddle the price point of being only slightly more expensive than cheapo PCs and not being too much less than the lucrative Power*** line.

Apple really would much rather have all of their customers purchase high margin Powerbooks. The consumer systems cannot be allowed to cut into that too deeply.

I can see the new iBooks shipping with a slight processor speed upgrade (1.42GHz) and 512MB RAM standard. There could also be a HDD size upgrade (40GB and 80GB). Widescreen isn't out of the question but probably won't happen. I can't see a video upgrade from the ATi 9200 while some PBs are still shipping with the crappy Go5600.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Anonymous Coward]

You're joking, right?

The old 15" PowerBook had hinges that were so flimsy if you sneezed the screen would fall off. I have five sat in a cupboard with the screens hanging off and a couple more running headless.

The new PowerBooks are a bit better but the finish on mine is coming off where I rest my hands to type and it's only seven months old.

I've never seen a broken iBook (apart from the couple I have had repaired under the motherboard replacement program). For durability it's an iBook everytime.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[The Great Wazzoo]

It really keeps amazing me how effective marketing can be. Why would an iBook be meant just for `schools'? People are letting themselves being fooled by their own greed. Just the fact that there's no `Power' in the name doesn't mean that it stops working the moment a `power-user' (whoever that might be) touches it. For heaven's sake, use what your job (or hobby or whatever) requires you to use.

As a matter of fact, I'm typing this on a 2-year old iBook G3. I'm an IT guy, so I guess I qualify as one of those power-users. I'm perfectly fine with it.

Cheers.
Me.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Hadlock]

I own a powerbook and consider it much more fragile than my friend's iBook. So do many other people. Such a large screen in such a small frame lends itself to being broken more easily. Metal bends, while plastic "bounces back" durring low stress issues. Many people think this.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would Apple make a widescreen laptop? These laptops are meant for schools, which means the pricepoint they have to sell at remains basically a constant.

Well, call me silly, but as an IT guy working at a law school I notice that quite a few of our students keep a Lexis Nexis or Westlaw browser window opened right along side a MS Word window with no overlap on their widescreen machines. It beats the hell out of toggling windows constantly when doing research and reference work according to them.

And.. get this.. when the students are done with their 10 hour academic day (or longer), some even watch movies on their laptop. The nerve!

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Anonymous Coward]

That has been my experience too. My powerbook is only 8 months old, and the screen already has imprints from where the outer casing has been bent into the keyboard (most likely a result of the way I remove it from the boot). Granted, they're not visible unless the screen is turned off, or if you look at just the right angle, so it's not a big issue. But it is annoying, since this laptop hasn't been subjected to any real abuse.

My wife's 3-year-old ibook, on the other hand, has withstood far greater challenges, and has nary a scratch to show for it.

This anecdotal evidence proves that the ibooks are tougher.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[Anonymous Coward]

I've owned both PB and iBs and worked with many of each. The iBooks are far more durable. The screens don't get the dirt & oil marks from the keyboards, the plastic casings are more durable than either the Ti or AL casings, and the hinges are built better. Making those PBs so thin and light, Apple's sacrificed durability in every rev. they've put out.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[nunchux]

Huh? This is the first time I have ever heard of the PB being less durable than the iBook. Did something change recently?

iBooks have always been sturdier*. For one thing, they're much solid- plastic is stronger and more shock aborbant than metal. Titaniums were notoriously fragile, in fact-- the hinges break, the paint chips. The Aluminums are a little better, but they also acquire dents and dings pretty quickly. You're not paying more for durability when you choose a Powerbook, you're paying for the "extras" like dual monitor support, ram capacity, processor and bus speed.

That may sound unfair, but think of the market-- iBooks are supposedly for students, and thus have to be made to take abuse, while Powerbooks are for "pros" who should have the sense to treat their notebook with care. In fact, I guarantee one of the reasons many people choose the Powerbook is the perception that it's a "serious" notebook and the iBook is a "toy." That's not really the case-- the iBook is a great computer-- but image does matter in business, so there you go.

* Of course, there was the logic board debacle-- but that's not an issue of wear and tear.

Re:I highly doubt the widescreen rumor is true

[wild_berry]

plastic is stronger and more shock aborbant than metal
Off the top of my head, I'd have to challenge your claim about '..stronger..'. But the actual answers will depend upon which plastic you meant, and what qualification of stronger.

'More shock absorbent' stands because of the flexibility inherent in plastics' (er) plasticity.

However, I would put my trust in the strength of a titanium version of any object over a plastic one any day. I suspect that bad design of the casting (insufficient second moment of area) would lead to the Titanium and Alumninium structures on the PowerBooks failing due to moments greater than the structure can handle.

What about CPU upgrade?

[Zo0ok]

Can they make any significant CPU-upgrade at all? The iBooks are already close to the PowerBook, and if they dont upgrade the PowerBooks the difference will be insignificant.

I hope for more RAM and lower price. The current CPUs are fast enough, and I dont want any more heat/less battery time.

The iBook will have to wait another year for the Intel CPUs - they are probably the last ones (along with the eMac) to switch from G4.

Re:What about CPU upgrade?

[l0ungeb0y]

"The iBooks are already close to the PowerBook, and if they dont upgrade the PowerBooks the difference will be insignificant."

As having been the owner of both a 2004 800mhz G4 iBook and a 2002 800mhz G4 powerbook... I can firmly attest that when used side by side, the 2002 powerbook was far more responsive and "snappier"&reg than the iBook.

For about $400.00 more you can get the 12" powerbook.
I'd really recommend you at least check it out before commiting to an iBook, not that an iBook is bad per se.... but there's a definite lack of performance when compared to their power series. I'm absolutely certain Apple pulls some of it's punches on the iBook and iMac and I was rather appalled that a 2yr old model would outperform a brand new model with the same processor and memory specs.

Just an FYI.

Re:What about CPU upgrade?

[blackmonday]

You only get 1024x768 resolution on the iBook (or 12 inch Powerbook). That's not insignificant compared to a 15 inch powerbook. I agree that between the 12 inch models its not worth the extra cash, but the difference in power between a 14 inch iBook and a 15 Powerbook is much more. Screen resolution, CPU Speed, bus speed, PCMCIA, Gigabit ethernet, dual monitors, (there's an unsupported hack for the iBook), DVI, lit keyboard, etc.

None of this is "must have" for me but I'd rather get a refurbed 15 inch Powerbook over a new iBook.

Re:What about CPU upgrade?

[WMD_88]

The 800MHz G4 iBook only had 256k of L2 cache, as opposed to 512k on the Powerbook. They changed this later, and they both have 512k. There's still the iBook's 133MHz bus to deal with, though.

Re:What about CPU upgrade?

[puto]

"As having been the owner of both a 2004 800mhz G4 iBook and a 2002 800mhz G4 powerbook... I can firmly attest that when used side by side, the 2002 powerbook was far more responsive and "snappier"&reg than the iBook."

I would be rather appalled to purchase a *new* computer with the same basic specs as my 2 year old computer.

Puto

I like some of Apple stuff. But

Clarifications

[debrain]

For those who don't want to read the article (or links), I believe the gist is as follows:

- The rumour for widescreens is substantiated by an internal Asustek memo indicating that Apple is buying wide screen laptops.

- The forthcoming iBook update is at least furthered by the lack of an iBook update in a very long time (for iBook updates). See, e.g. Macrumours Buyers Guide. It's been 274 days since an iBook update, where the average is 158. It's writing on the wall.

- It almost certainly won't have an Intel processor. Apple's plans to move to Intel supposedly start in Q1 2006.

Time will tell, of course.

It's called...

[Anonymous Coward]

...a pre-dupe.

Re:Attention Apple Fags!

[cached]

Will someone suspend this guy's account? Out of 24 posts only 2 of them are positive. Sorry if I'm doing something wrong for responding to a troll but geez just have a system where if someone's point total is below -10 then delete their account.

Lighter?

[ry4an]

If they can get it under three pounds (remove the optical drive, I don't care) I'd grab one in a second. More than three pounds is just too heavy for a portable.

Re:Lighter?

[TobyWong]

Sign me up too. I'd buy an Apple ultraportable in an instant if there was one available.

Re:Lighter?

[mrchaotica]

I agree -- a sub-three-pound Mac would be great. However, I would imagine it being a 10" Powerbook, not an iBook.

Of course, what would be really great would be a 10" or 12" three-pound PowerTablet...

Re:Lighter?

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Never have understood why a 5lb laptop kickes some people's asses. Of course I just watched some Marine get back from Iraq on crutches with 60 lb packs so maybe I'm a bit short on sympathy for those complaining about "more than 3 pounds"

Re:Lighter?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is slashdot. You're talking to people who believe that moving your hand from the keyboard to the mouse is too much work. We're not talking about future olympians here.

Re:Lighter?

[Matey-O]

Buy a 5 lb. laptop and lose 4 lbs. of weight.

Re:Lighter?

[Hadlock]

Try lugging a 5-7lb laptop in your 3lb (yes, they really are that heavy, most are heavier) laptop bag, filled with another 3lbs of accessories (mouse, power supply, USB keychain, possible extra battery, surge protector, etc etc etc). Now cart that on your shoulder across a major airport like DFW, LAX or JFK with all your other crap. That's 11 pounds minimum, and probably closer to 15-18 lbs if you don't have the budget for a 5lb laptop. My laptop bag with 5lb powerbook in it weighs a little over 20 lbs, with 3.5" external hard drive and cables, novel, and some optical discs.

I'm sure that marine didn't much like carrying that 60 lb pack, but at least it was on his waist (packs put 90% of the weight on your waist, the shoulder straps are just there to keep it from falling off, unlike your Jansport in high school). This 18-20lbs is directly on your shoulder (singular).

Re:Lighter?

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Mod parent funny :)

Re:Lighter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok i've done that with my toshiba satellite (over 7 lbs.) Quite the monster in its day. The only spot where I noticed enough to be annoyed was at the security checkpoint, where I had to remove the laptop from its protective case. Since no tables were provided (and I opted for the protective soft case that "easily" slips into the carrying case) I dropped it my first trip ever. (fortunately only the CD burner was affected and that only slightly.. and I had paid extra for the "no-fault" waranty service)

That was on my shoulder. I hardly noticed it other than the checkpoint.

I fail to understand how ibook users are STILL complaining about the weight of their portable supercomputers. It's like they get weaker every moore-generation. Under 3 lbs?? I've had soft drinks that weighed more than 3 lbs.

BTW, I am not a marine, but i'm pretty sure that their packs do NOT put the weight on the waist. I don't claim to understand why, but the A.L.I.C.E. pack has a very thin webbing belt. Compare to typical backpacker's pack and you'll see even more differences

1) no frame (you'll need a frame if you're going to suppor ton the hips anyway)
2) no padded belt
3) Weight distributed low and out rather than high and close. (backpackers prefer a higher center of gravity for efficiency reasons (it allows you to stand up straighter for instance), but at a sacrifice of stability)

plus, it's over 60 lbs like he said (no backpacker would carry this much if he could avoid it) and the marine probably has a weapon in his hands and ammo stowed elsewhere. I really don't think it's fair to compare your "struggles" with a pansy-arse trendimatron through an air conditioned terminal to a marine with full kit hoofing through backcountry terrain avoiding roads to keep the enemy guessing.

Re:Lighter?

[toddestan]

The Mac Mini actually comes in at around 2.9lbs, so it would meet your demands. Of course, you have no screen - but that works for the Shuffle so I think you'll be okay.

Re:Lighter?

[7Prime]

Boo Hoo!

Get a laptop pack then! That's all I've ever had, they practically gave me one with my PowerBook. If what you're saying about 90% of weight being re-distributed to your waist, then a 5lb laptop in a pack is about .6lbs of pressure on your shoulders. Sounds like a LOT cheeper and more elegant solution than gutting a laptop of all it's usefull hardware, all of which, people would then have to lug around in external form in their bags.

Consider this... what do laptops on planes get used for most? Watching movies. For that, you either need a DVD drive or take the time to rip all your DVDs to the HD. So, it would end up that most people would buy this 3lb laptop, and then have to carry around a 2lb firewire DVD drive, of which you have cables to worry about and uses up more power, so you have to bring an extra battery as well.

Folks, is 3lbs here and there really worth crippling a computer? If you can't handle it, maybe you should start lifting weights or something. I have little sympathy for people complaining that they want 3lbs off something they carry on their back. I've carried 50lbs for 5 days over a mountain pass, and so could most everyone else here.

My normal outfit is a 6lb PowerBook, a ~6lb LaCie firewire drive, 2 power bricks. Most of the time I'm carrying these along with either a pair of studio headphones and a DigiDesign MBox, or a GameCube with 4 controllers and games, or a bunch of text books. And still, the last thing I care about is 3lbs off my laptop.

Re:Lighter?

[Hadlock]

Turns out the medium capacity ALICE packs (50lb max capacity) have frames, and a lightly padded belt. Not as padded as say, an REI Wonderland pack, but one can certianly adjust the pack to properly sit on your waist.

Re:Lighter?

[radish]

You just need to look beyond Apple. My Fujitsu is 4lbs, probably closer to 3 if you take out the optical drive. It's got a 13" screen, 4+ hours battery life and cost $1400 or thereabouts.

Re:Lighter?

[ry4an]

Yeah, and my current laptop is 3lbs, but getting Linux on it was a PITA. If they made a light iBook/powerBook, I'd give 'em the money to save myself the hassle.

If Only...

[__aaclcg7560]

I would buy an iBook if Apple could charge my Dell account (which has a zero balance). Didn't Dell say they wanted to sell Apple hardware? :)

Re:If Only...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm confused. I thought Dell said that Apple should wind up operations and distribute the cash balance to its stockholders. /scratches_head

Re:If Only...

[magefile]

Why would you want to do that?

Re:If Only...

[__aaclcg7560]

So I don't have to go through the hassle of setting up another charge account. If you have too many credit cards with low or zero balances, it reduces your credit score and creditors will think you want to go on a spending spree that you won't be able to pay back (never mind that's what their marketing ads want you to do). Dell wants me to buy a new PC since I have a zero balance on my charge account, but I want to buy an Apple computer. Go figure.

Re:If Only...

[raju1kabir]

You are honestly making your computer purchasing decision based on some potential marginal temporary impact on your credit score?

Re:If Only...

[__aaclcg7560]

Based on my overall financial plan, yes. I do a lot contracting and my income is not consistent. Having a good credit score is very important when looking for an apartment. I have a lot of friends who can't get into my apartment complex because their credit scores are tanked from missing payments on that computer, sports car, and plasma TV they bought on credit. Never mind that they work 60 to 80 hours a week, have stock options and brokerage accounts, and saving money for a down payment on the fantasy mansion. Do I want an Apple computer? Sure. But only if I can afford it without impacting my credit score.

Re:If Only...

[raju1kabir]

But you already have an apartment, and it's so awesome that nobody else is even able to live in the building (you have "a lot" of friends who want to live in your building? Where on earth do you live?). It's not like you're going to be evicted if you get a line of credit from Apple, so why do you care?

But more importantly, I think you misunderstand the impact of multiple lines of credit. Applying for a line of credit from a merchant and then making a purchase from that merchant and then making payments on that purchase does not hurt your credit score. Getting a bunch of lines of credit that you never use, well, that can hurt.

Re:If Only...

[__aaclcg7560]

I live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The rent in my apartment complex is relatively cheap for two-bedroom apartments in the similar neighborhoods, and they offer a $750 off on the first month for a one-year lease. Only if you have a good credit score and can prove you're financially responsible (which is a big problem for a lot of my friends). That's why half the complex is empty but everyone who lives there is financially responsible. It's a nice place but I need to move closer to the jobs in the near future.

You might be right about me misunderstanding the credit score issue. I been shutting down all the cards with zero balances since I don't use them. The only thing I got left is a MasterCard and the Dell account. Hmmm... Closing the Dell account and getting an Apple account might do the trick. Would I become Mac purist at that point? ;)

Re:If Only...

[Anonymous Coward]

And in closing your accounts you have lowered the average age of your credit accounts, also lowering your score. Congrats!

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[chasingporsches]

i'm waiting for the g5 ibook.

i hear there's a g6 powermac in the works, too. this coming from my friend who is an apple rep in cupertino.

Christmas

[Anonymous Coward]

Christmas is coming any day now too

No rush

[DebianDog]

No rush. Some Mac vendors -first- OS X version of software just came out -this- year. I am a helper on the Apple forum. Do you know how many folks are sill using OS9 on a G3? I would guess 100's of thousands.

Personally... I am gonna buy the next generations BIGGEST BADDEST PPC machine to replace my aging dual 533. The machine is working flawlessly, but is rather slow for the HD H.264 encodes :(

By the time all the vendors recompile for Mactel and all the little annoyances are worked out for the "new" CPU's, hardware, etc. I will be ready for the latest.. greatest.. Mactel (read 4-5 years or about the time service pack 2 is out for Longhorn).

Re:No rush

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know how many folks are sill using OS9 on a G3? I would guess 100's of thousands.

Do you know how many folks are running OSX? 18 million. A few hundred thousand is pretty small by comparison. Actually, I think there's a lot more than that. It's difficult to conceive just how enormously successful the original bulbous iMac was: none of the successive versions have come close to its sales figures: 700,000/quarter at the height of the .com boom. I figure a huge chunk of those millions of iMacs are still running the OS they came with.

Myself, I've got two machines running Panther, one on MacOS 9.2, and one on System 7.5.

ibook vram

[ditangquan]

no matter what it is, I'll bet it will still have an obsolete crappy video card. why apple why....

Re:ibook vram

[laffer1]

I disagree completely. Compared to the lame intel video cards found in most low end laptops from other vendors, i think a radeon 9200 32mb card is nice. Plus, unlike pcs macs don't need as good of cards for gaming. The limitation is the cpu speed and memory actually. My system's video card is supported by world of warcraft, enemy territory, etc. I have a first gen iBook G4 with the same card they ship now. I wouldn't mind a memory bump, but in laptop territory its not bad.

Re:ibook vram

[MarkTina]

Because it's a laptop and not a gaming rig ?

More info from macrumors.com

[Yenhsrav_Keviv]

This story seems to be a few weeks old... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&thre adid=133431

They say Asustek is manufacturing the new iBooks, which are set to launch in 2006.

Closing th Gap to Pro Models

[kannibal_klown]

Don't get me wrong, I love it when Apple announces a product update.

But with Widescreens, there's now even less difference between the iBook and PowerBook.

Both already have G4 CPUs
Both have Superdrives
Both have DVI out

I know there are some minor arch differences, but they're getting a little too close for comfort.

Re:Closing th Gap to Pro Models

[snort]

Both already have G4 CPUs
Both have Superdrives
Both have DVI out


Nope, the iBooks only have SVGA out.

Re:Closing th Gap to Pro Models

[jevvim]

Current iBooks do not have DVI output; they have a "mini-VGA" connector to which an adaptor for Composite or S-Video can be connected. This is the same mini-VGA connector that the iMac G5 provides, so I would not expect to see it replaced with DVI.

Re:Closing th Gap to Pro Models

[JackAxe]

iBooks offer mini-DVI out, just like the 12" Powerbook.

Re:Closing th Gap to Pro Models

[Anonymous Coward]

I know there are some minor arch differences, but they're getting a little too close for comfort.

Yeah? Do the Powerbook logic boards suck now, too?

Keep the 12"

[Peter Cooper]

The "article" talks about revisions to the 14" line, and possibly a new 15" line. I really hope the 12" line doesn't go though. A lot of us bought iBooks because they're a lot smaller and cheaper than comparable PCs at that size. 12" is ideal for flights, carrying around like a book, and just throwing in your bag wherever you want to go. By all means, increase the res of the 12" (1024x768 is a let down), but don't ditch the line, because its compactness makes it useful. Whereas the 14"? It has the same res.. so a waste of money.

Re:Keep the 12"

[Hellasboy]

It could be a 12" widescreen at a resolution of 1280x768 or 1280x800. I was looking at the ibook but was turned away by the rather low resolution and 4:3 aspect ratio. Instead I bought a Dell 700M (and can't argue about the price, wow) that is about the same size as a Mead paper notebook. Add a small sleeve and it fits perfectly in a backpack or sling with the rest of my materials.

Re:Keep the 12"

[RadRafe]

By all means, increase the res of the 12" (1024x768 is a let down)

What? The 12" model already has over a hundred dots per inch. A higher resolution would sacrifice usability: it's harder to find icons, controls, and menu items when they're smaller. I don't want to squint to use my computer. Maybe you're different.

Re:Attention Apple Fags!

[Anonymous Coward]

just add him to your foes list, thats what its there for

I might be seen as naive but...

[TheHarker]

...I never understood the point of the iBook once they moved away from the tangerine stuff. Most people who are willing to purchase an Apple are not the kind of people who do things in half measures and would probably fork out the extra coinage for a Powerbook. Maybe it's just me (?)

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[RatBastard]

I bought a 12" iBook because it does what I need and I couldn't justify the extra $500.00 for the Powerbook. I use it on the road, not as a desktop replacement. I do my CPU intensive stuff on my G5 Powermac on my desk. For me, and I can't speak for anyone but myself, the iBook was what I needed.

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[Looke]

The iBook is incredibly good value if you're looking for a small laptop. Similarly-priced PCs are all heavy 15-inchers. Even the 12" Powerbook is competitively priced in the small-laptop market.

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see why you would spend the extra coin for almost nothing in performance. The Powerbook only has a little faster processor, faster RAM, the two finger touch pad, and the prepare for drop technology. For me (I use my iBook mainly for programming outside of the house) the iBook is plenty powerful, damn close to the powerbook and a lot more reasonable in price. Plus, for me, I liked the 14 inch non-widescreen, because 12 inch is too small and 15 inch widescreen is too big. Therefore, 14 inch is just right! (See those 3 bears taught me something)

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[kyrre]

They used to be incredibly good value, these days its good value at best. Look at Dell X1, or some of Acers offerings. I like my two iBooks and my powerbook, but Fujitsu Siemens P7010 is starting to look very very friendly. (But there seems to be noise issues with the P7010).

Centrino PCs also have the advantage of wireless support in Linux. I will not buy another Mac until Apple fix this issue. The lack of Linux compatible Wifi in my Mac Mini is bothering me a lot.

Maybe an upgraded iBook would include a Intel WIFI chip?

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[sootman]

As nicely as I can say this: yes, it's just you. Millions of people want Apple computers, in a laptop configuration, and the cheaper the better. Stereotypes are not always accurate, and every Apple customer isn't a rich NYC-based loft-dwelling graphic designer. Many (myself included) are more than happy to pay $500. (12" iBook: $999, 12" PB: $1599.) What the PowerBook has, many people don't need. There's nothing "half" about my iBook--it does everything I want a portable to do. And, as it happens, I prefer the white plastic to aluminum, so that's a bonus for me.

Re:I might be seen as naive but...

[Looke]

Two months ago, I did consider all of those, while looking for a small (~12") laptop. (Those without optical drives were out of the question, though.) No model was cheaper than the iBook. Some were priced in-between the iBook and the Powerbook, but reviews revealed that the build-quality was cheap. (Apple's hardware is generally of excellent quality.) Fujitsu-Siemens and IBM have some nice ones, but they are even more expensive than the 12" Powerbook.

In the end, I bought the Powerbook, even though I couldn't really justify the extra cost compared to the iBook. Kind of proves the original poster's point :-)

The Linux compatibility issues are a drawback, but for my purposes I'm happy with Apple's Unix.

gimme SXGA+ or more

[xeno]

I understand the desire for consistency in display pitch, but Apple seems stuck on the idea that no one wants a small hires display. After using a Thinkpad with a 14 inch SXGA+ (1400x1050) and a Zaurus with 640x480 on a 3.7 inch display for a couple of years, the usual 15-in XGA seems positively clunky. Hell, the Dell D800 my new employer gave me seems ridiculous -- who the hell wants to lug around a monster 8-lb 17-in screen and get only a wXGA display? Surely the market will support an iBook or PowerBook with a hires (SXGA on 12-14 or UXGA on 15-17in) display.

And no, I do not have extraordinary eyesight -- I wear glasses. It's just a matter of seeing more = more work done faster, and I don't think that's uncommon for mobile computer users.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, I agree -- being limited to 1024x768 is The Biggest Problem I have with my 12" iBook.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[Anonymous Coward]

Now THAT's a Thinkpad. SXGA? What graphics card is driving the display? I've gotten used to bashing IBM's lack of widescreen/graphics choices.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[Coryoth]

I have to agree, at least as to the benefits of hi-res laptop displays. I have a Dell (yeah, that sucks) but it has a 15 inch widescreen display that will happily do 1920x1200. After working on that a lot other laptops seem to have very constricted displays.

And like you, no I don't have fabulous eyesight - I use fairly large fonts and simply scale things up - but the added clarity and crispness in both font rendering and graphics is definitely a huge bonus. By comparison 1024x768 displays looks blurred and fuzzy.

Jedidiah.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[argent]

After using a Thinkpad with a 14 inch SXGA+ (1400x1050) and a Zaurus with 640x480 on a 3.7 inch display for a couple of years, the usual 15-in XGA seems positively clunky.

Yeh.

Oh yeh.

The Thinkpad is just generally a nicer computer to actually use, for all it doesn't have the cool deLoreon body.

I'll tell you what, Apple. You sell me a copy of OSX Intel I can run on my Thinkpad T23, I'll pay the $500 "Mac Tax" you'd have got by selling me a Powerbook straight into your pocket. I'd make do with a high-res PB, but what I really want is a Thinkpad running OS X.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[aclarke]

Right. People don't seem to realize that having a higher resolution doesn't mean they have to deal with smaller fonts. Just sharper ones.

Perhaps this stems from the fact that in Windows if you change the default font size from either of the "normal" or "larger" settings to a custom size, it screws up many dialog boxes and other display functions. This doesn't seem to be the problem on OS X though.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[llamaluvr]

Oh, yeah? Where's your Windows key? :-P

In all seriousness, I have tons of respect for the Thinkpad line. At work, we've used them in a very demanding environment for years with stellar results (except when people let them get run over or stolen, of course!). I'd take them in a business/ industrial environment in a second over the Latitude line. But I really, really, really want that windows key back. What gives?

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I do like my SXGA+ Compaq business laptop, and love how it makes the text smoother and sharper.

One thing that's bugged me is that the Apple 'Books don't even have a high-res option.

As it is though, I haven't found a way to make the scroll bar wider, and buttons larger. I can clock my 21" CRT to quad XGA but that makes the buttons and scroll bars too tiny.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[TilJ]

Exactly. It's what drove me towards a powerbook instead of an ibook -- it was the extra feature that I just couldn't live without.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[argent]

Where's your Windows key? :-P

Good point. I had to get a new keyboard when I Switched, because while I find the Windows key(s) really annoying and pointless under Windows without it you don't have a Command key on OSX.

What do you use it for on Windows, anyway? I've had this T23 for a couple of years now and I'd never noticed it was missing until you mentioned it.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[bar-agent]

What do you use it for on Windows, anyway?

It's more useful than you think, though still not very useful. Basically, a simple key combo to access the start menu, to the desktop, to the password-protect screen, etc.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[mrchaotica]

Moving to a PowerBook wouldn't have done me any good, since the 12" ones have the same resolution as the iBook.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can choose any font and any size as default in Windows UI. In OS X you can't change the default UI font, or even its size; so obviously it can't be a problem, it's not even a feature!! (And I'm a Mac (fan) user since 1993, hating Windows every day at work, believe me no Windows zealot here!!)

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[Bert64]

Ctrl+ESC will access the start menu too, that was the recommended way before they started putting windows keys on keyboards..
It would have been much smarter to use the key as a modifier for cut+paste etc, like macos does.. So that cut+pasting can be consistent between apps, instead of working differently in text based apps like the current windows kludge does.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[sash]

the iBooks just mirror their LCD on the external monitor, but a Powerbook can drive it at a higher resolution:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html
http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[mrchaotica]

So? What good does that do me when 99.9999999999% of the time I'm using the thing as a laptop? If sacrificing portability for a larger screen was acceptable, I would have gotten a 14" iBook or 15" or 17" PowerBook in the first place!

My point stands: the built-in displays have the same resolution, and that's all that counts.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[sash]

For me, instead, having the money to buy a Powerbook instead of an iBook would have meant no need for a desktop PC at home and one in the office and a portable to carry around, but just one small portable and 2 large fixed monitors. Much less sysadm and syncing etc.
Your point stands for your usage, but that's not all that counts for everybody, since different people have different needs :-)

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[aclarke]

Yeah, but have you actually TRIED this feature in Windows? I'm doing it now (have to use Windows XP at work) and the home page of my company's web site is screwed up (yeah not completely Microsoft's fault, but still!) and dialog boxes routinely chop of part of the text at the bottom. It's a feature, but it's not a fully supported feature which makes it of only marginal usefulness.

I'm sad to hear this isn't a feature at all on OS X though. I use a powerbook at home and haven't felt the need to change my font size on either my 12" lcd screen or my 21" monitor. I'd been told it was an option but haven't tried to find it myself.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[llamaluvr]

Windows Key + D = show desktop
Windows Key + L = lock computer
Windows key + E = open an explorer window
Windows key + R = bring up the Run... dialog

...and those are just the ones I use a billion times a day.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[argent]

All those are a couple of keystrokes away after you hit control-escape or control-alt-delete. It seems a waste... the Command/Apple key on the Mac is actually used to provide functionality throughout the system in every application and lets me do things like keyboard cut-and-paste in CLI windows.

It's a shame, since Windows otherwise has so much better keyboardability than the Mac OS... but everything Microsoft's done to Windows since 3.11 has made it less effective from the keyboard.

Re:gimme SXGA+ or more

[indiechild]

I don't get it. Where in OS X do you get the option to change the DPI resolution of the screen? It's not there, as far as I can see.

I wish it was there. At least in Windows XP you can change the DPI, even if it tends to screw up the scale and look ugly.

Then call them for you money ;-)

[DebianDog]

[quote from Apple Store support site] Price protection If Apple reduces the price on any product within 10 calendar days of shipment, you can request a refund or credit of the difference between the price you were charged and the current price. To receive the refund or credit you must contact Apple within 14 business days of shipment.

1.7GHz

[bill_mcgonigle]

The chip can do 1.7GHz.

I bought a 1.2 last year - I'd upgrade for 1.7 but not 1.4.

Hopefully the PowerBook will see the new IBM G5 chips so they don't have to retard the iBook's G4. More L2 cache will be especially yummy since compiles suck on this thing (fink).

Re:1.7GHz

[Golias]

I have a 1.0 at the moment, and have every intention to skip this particular upgrade (and quite probably the next... I like to squeeze as many years out of my notebook computers as I can.)

Anything more than a modest incremental upgrade (1.42 on the lowest-end iBook, with maybe a little more video memory) would astonish me. If they were willing to use 1.7 GHz G4 chips in the iBook, I would think they'd be dropping them into the eMac and mini as well.

Re:1.7GHz

[bill_mcgonigle]

If they were willing to use 1.7 GHz G4 chips in the iBook, I would think they'd be dropping them into the eMac and mini as well.

They've only been out a month.

I think iBook will be the first to go intel

[CdBee]

Pro Macs are built for people who use heavy-duty commercial applications for design purposes or scientific research

Apple would do well to transition the iBook and Mac Mini first as the users will be more inclined toward using Apple's apps (iDVD, Safari, Mail, iPhoto) and less hung-up by the slow porting of expensive apps - the most pricy app a home user needs is usually Microsoft Office, which will run on Rosetta and probably will be ported early anyway.(anyone remember how long it took for QuarkExpress to go OSX native?)

Also, the takeup of intel Macs will affect the willingness to port: Which market is more likely to buy intel macs in large numbers? - home users getting a $800 laptop with a 3ghz P4 or pro users buying quad 4ghz machines?

Consumers are apples bread and butter. I doubt much of their profits comes from the G5 powermac

Re:I think iBook will be the first to go intel

[mrchaotica]

No, the first line to go Intel will be the PowerBook. Not only is the G4 way too slow for a "pro" computer, but there's no way they'd make the iBook better than the Powerbook (and if it has a Pentium-M while the Powerbook still had a G4, it would be better by a wide margin).

The iBook, Mac Mini, and eMac will follow quickly after the PowerBook, of course.

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh... I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as G6. And there won't be considered they are moving to intel. So... maybe a P4 ibook you are thinking about?

Jesus...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what counts as news for nerds, stuff that matters now?

Hey -- this just in... Ford is going to release a new model of car 'any day now'. I also heard that AMD might release a faster CPU 'any day now' as well. Remember folks, you heard it here first.

Re:Lighter? Cannot happen :(

[Llama_STi]

I completely agree with you on the sub-three lbs idea but have you looked at the market? Lappys this slim/light go for big dollars which Apple would never allow to go for iBook pricing. Look at their higher end of hogs - the Powerbricks aren't even close to three lbs. The iBook can never be better than the Powerbook so unfortunately this dream can never be true. :(

Re:Attention Apple Fags!

[Anonymous Coward]

We may not agree with everybody's opinions, however preventing people from expressing them is wrong.

The almost perfect moderation system ensures that you don't have to read posts that run counter to the norm. Please browse at +1 to filter out controversial opinions and new points of view.

ps:
How long do we have to wait between posts??.......

is there any possiblity of 8461D

[cyfer2000]

the dual core one?

Re:is there any possiblity of 8461D

[ArbitraryConstant]

No. The MPC8641D is not socket-compatible with current G4s. A compatible version could probably be produced, but it would be stuck with the MPX bus that has left G4s castrated for so long. It slows down G4s now and if there were two cores on the same bus it would be even worse. An incompatible version will not be used because the costs associated with a new chipset and new motherboard design would be wasted when they'll be selling the things for less than a year.

I think it's pretty likely that PowerBooks will get dual-core Pentium Ms though.

why now?

[bad_outlook]

with them moving to new chips, I can just hear all the 'why now?' comments, but let me throw out an idea; Linux. Buy one, throw Ubuntu Linux and see what a useable/futureproof laptop. I still feel Linux runs on iBooks better than OS X, as is testimate by my 2 yr old iBook dual booting (with e17-pre it looks nicer on the Linux side!) So the hardware isn't going to be outdated anytime soon, and with the speeds they're reaching now, who wants to burn more battery?

Re:why now?

[Anonymous Coward]

The show-stopper here is that the Airport Extreme card doesn't work in Linux.

Re:why now?

[delire]

i know many iBook owners with Linux on board (Ubuntu being the prevailing distribution). for the boost in performance you can sack your Airport with little guilt.

Re:why now?

[toddestan]

But how do they get wireless? The iBook lacks a PCMCIA slot. Do they have to use one of those USB adaptors. Or do they just do without?

Re:why now?

[delire]

wireless itself works fine. AFAIK the 'airport' card is just a repackaged Orinoco. things may be different on very new iBooks i don't know. there's a ton of information about running Linux (esp Debian) on the iBook - a very popular combination.

Apple airport is an apple only 'service' using non-standard, proprietary protocols only required when connecting to an Apple airport AP.

an iBook running Linux makes an ideal unit for wardriving as it is perhaps the only way you'll get monitor mode on the device (Airsnort, Kismet); i hear it's unlikely that a driver for the iBook on OSX supporting monitor mode will ever reach the platform. again, things may have changed since i last looked.

Re:why now?

[mnemonix]

Airport Express uses a Broadcom chip. There are no drivers for Linux.

Re:why now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Newer airport express use a broadcom chip.
Older ones used the Orinoco chip.
I think the shift happened when they went form 802.11b to
11g

Re:why now?

[AnimeFreak]

No.

Airport = Orinoco
Airport Extreme = Broadcom

None of the 802.11g adapters Apple used were Orinoco.

Re:why now?

[prionic6]

> Newer airport express use a broadcom chip.
> Older ones used the Orinoco chip.
> I think the shift happened when they went form 802.11b to
> 11g

Airport = Orinoco = 802.11b
Airport Express = Broadcom = 802.11g

Re: iBook & 12" PB != 15"+ PB Screen :(

[Llama_STi]

The iBook and 12" Powerbricks have a different screen manufacturer than the 15" and 17" PB's. Unfortunately the iBook screens are teh suck or maybe I'd think of getting one of those (but more likely the 12" PB.) Even after the latest "refresh" on the Powerbricks, the 12" is still the crappy iBook screen. :(

I sure hope they're wrong!

[CrazyTalk]

One of the big selling points for me when I bought my iBook was the small form factor with the 12" screen.

Because...

[Really Wannabe Geek]

"Experts agree that the best type of computer for your individual needs is one that comes on the market about two days after you actually purchase some other computer."
--Dave Barry

Re:Because...

[Cheapy]

Guy: "Do you have any RAM?" Employee: "This is a grocery store sir. We don't sell computer parts." Guy: "Ah, then take me to your zuchinnis."

Rumors

[techguy911]

They better hope that these rumors aren't true, or Apple will sue their pants off.

"They know our new laptops will have widescreens!? SUE EM!

not quite...

[intmainvoid]

Nah, they're about a month off.

They speculate that the new iBooks might have a widescreen display.
Well it'd be about time. But the speculation about that is hardly a new story.

Seriously

[cryptochrome]

Let's leave the rumors to the rumors sites. Slashdot is crowded enough with articles on real news already. How did this even get published?

Re:Seriously

[Anonymous Coward]

It was published because of the Apple / MAC rump swabbery that has been going on here on /. for some time.

No matter what Apple does, most on /. hail it as wonderful, remarkable, and sheer genius. Even rumors like this are hoisted up as noteworthy.

I for one am sick of it.

Mod Points and Apple

[mejesster]

Nobody has enough mod points to possibly mod down all the flamebait on this thread.

Re:Mod Points and Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

But only because they used up all their points giving Insightful mods to those who say something even the slightest positive about Apple.

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[larkost]

Note: occasionally rings up a Mac mini at Best Buy != "Apple Rep."

slashdot is the new myspace

[Anonymous Coward]

news(rumors) for fucking morons. slashdot is over the top i can't believe this place

Do we know who manufacturers their notebooks?

[Shivetya]

At one time they had a line that was built by the same people making Latitudes (way back)

who does it now?

If they would be a little more reasonable on price/performance I would pick one up. I can make use of a laptop far easier than a mini and I do not need another full size PC about the office.

(reasonable meaning along the lines Dell's 6000 series or such... which hit as low as 750 with a great feature set and go up from there)

Re:Do we know who manufacturers their notebooks?

[damsa]

I think Asus makes their iBooks and some of the iPods. I think it's the iPod shuffle. Not sure about the Powerbook.

Real News?

[0110011001110101]

Slashdot is crowded enough with articles on real news already

Ohh right, like every time google farts or IE has another security exploit or Roland needs more advertising revenue?

Re:Real News?

[cryptochrome]

Those are all still more concrete than Yet Another Apple Product Rumor.

Re:Real News?

[0110011001110101]

Sorry, forgot to include my tags...

point well taken, sarcasm aside.

the real question

[justforaday]

But will it be snappier?

Why do you even bother?

[JackAxe]

Did Apple some how offend your ignorance?

Re:Why do you even bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, by marketing their products towards people who're ignorant. It is a shame, but life goes on.

Re:Why do you even bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Apple some how offend your ignorance?

No, he just can't afford to buy what Apple sells so he has been forced to settle for life as a Windows user on an noname computer he bought at K-Mart which has left him bitter and envious of people who earn real money.

Re:Attention Apple Fags!

[Anonymous Coward]

ps:
How long do we have to wait between posts??.......

I honestly don't know. I've been able to post after anywhere from 17 minutes up to 54 minutes after a previous post. Sometimes it just seems completely random. It is really weird. I think Slashdot is keeping a relationship database of karma and IP addresses, so if you consistenly post down-modded comments from one IP address you might have to wait longer before being able to post again. I know that some logged-in users who have good karma rarely have to wait more than 5 minutes before being able to post again. But those same users report that posting anonymously results in longer wait times. Maybe logged-in wait times are based on user karma and anonymous wait times are based on the number of down-modded comments from that IP addresses in the last 24 hours or something. Anyone care to comment on this?

Ob. Futurama (Re:Tablet?)

[dutky]

kevcol wrote:

Mabey they will introduce a tablet version?

I find that hard to swallow.

<Farnsworth>Good news! It's a suppository!</Farnsworth>

Re:Ob. Futurama (Re:Tablet?)

[Scudsucker]

Good news! It's a suppository!

Did it just get warmer in here?

Would be unusual to upgrade before back-to-school.

[alexhmit01]

Apple has "historically" (the last 2-3 years) done upgrades AFTER major buying times. Instead of getting a new model out for "back-to-school" shopping, they run "extra RAM" or other promotions for back-to-school folks to think that they are getting a good deal, sell out their existing inventory at basically full price with the shopping season (schools upgrade labs, parents buy kids computers, etc), then roll out new computers in October... It's annoying, but smart business... Most schools/universities turn over their fiscal year in either August, September, or October, to either roll the school year into one (September), or basically do that but not being trying to do year close-outs during the transition (hence August/October).

That means if they have money left in the budget to spend on the year, they buy the soon-to-be-closed out models at full price, then Apple starts a separate buying frenzy soon after.

For that reason, iPods tend NOT to get upgraded in late October (announce, ship in November) (in time for Christmas shopping, they get upgraded in January).

It's a margin maximizing move.

Now, with Apple's increased market (37% year-to-year increase in Computers, with US Marketshare at 4.5% last quarter), they may have just sold their inventory, so rather than making an old computer, they announce an upgrade and sell it... as I'd imagine as Freescale improves processors, there is no price break on the older ones, so Apple will upgrade, but we shall see.

Alex

Here are some differences I consider important.

[JackAxe]

Powerbooks support dual screens, ship with higher quality LCDs, higher ram capacity, FW 800, Gigabit ethernet, and better video cards. (The 9200 found in an iBook is an updated 8500.) PCMCIA is also only available on the PB if you need it.

I personally don't concider those minor differences, but for most consumers like my parents, that stuff is not important.

Re:Here are some differences I consider important.

[kannibal_klown]

Thanks for the info.

I realize many of the specs are different. However, as a Mac newbie some of those you listed I didn't know (I assumed Firewire 800, pcmcia slots, and gigabit ethernet were standard on the iBook).

Still, I'd like a larger gap again. I was one of those hopeful fools that wished Apple would finally release a G5 Powerbook but I guess the power / heat contraints were too high.

Here's to hoping that when they go "Intel" they widen the CPU gap a little more.

Nice, I was just thinking of buying a *Book

[ShyGuy91284]

I've been spending the past couple week seriously comparing and pricing various laptops (and have been researching over the past half year), and am probably going to buy a *Book in about 3 weeks. I was going to get a refurb 12" PowerBook 1.33 (a little more then an iBook), but This announcement may change that if it's a decent upgrade.

If you want widescreen that bad

[soft_guy]

why not buy a PowerBook? They have been available in widescreen for a long time. Plus, as someone who has several of both, I can tell you the PowerBook is a lot nicer.

Re:If you want widescreen that bad

[Cro Magnon]

And more expensive.

Re:If you want widescreen that bad

[Kesh]

And bigger. And more expensive. And less durable.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 12" Powerbook... but it's certainly not as sturdy as my old iBook was. If Apple puts out a widescreen iBook, without making it too much larger (and when they switch to Intel), I'm going to sell this Powerbook to finance my purchase.

Re:If you want widescreen that bad

[soft_guy]

Yeah, I bought my daughter an iBook because of the "sturdy" factor. Big mistake. So far she has broken four iBook power adaptors (at $75 each). And she's ten years old. I should have bought her an iMac, but she begged for a laptop.

Re:If you want widescreen that bad

[Kesh]

Well, that's the power adapter. The iBook itself is still fine, right? ;)

Not a chance.

[ArbitraryConstant]

Not a chance. If anything gets them, it'll be PowerBooks, and I doubt even that much. They won't be selling them for long enough to justify the expense and Pentium Ms are so much faster than 1.6 ghz G5s that it would be pointless.

Re:Not a chance.

[The Lynxpro]

"Not a chance. If anything gets them, it'll be PowerBooks, and I doubt even that much. They won't be selling them for long enough to justify the expense and Pentium Ms are so much faster than 1.6 ghz G5s that it would be pointless."

Justify what expense? From all indications, Apple already designed PowerBooks that used G5 chips long before IBM finally made the low power/low heat chip available. Thus the (over) engineering has already been paid for so they might as well capture some of that expense back through new sales....

Bringing out Pentium-based PowerBooks wouldn't be very wise since the ProApps (which is what most PowerBook users use if you believe Apple) have not been compiled over to Intel based builds yet, from all that has been mentioned online so far.

Re:Not a chance.

[ArbitraryConstant]

"From all indications, Apple already designed PowerBooks that used G5 chips long before IBM finally made the low power/low heat chip available. Thus the (over) engineering has already been paid for so they might as well capture some of that expense back through new sales...."

You make an interesting point. I hadn't considered that.

"Bringing out Pentium-based PowerBooks wouldn't be very wise since the ProApps (which is what most PowerBook users use if you believe Apple) have not been compiled over to Intel based builds yet, from all that has been mentioned online so far."

That's another good point, but I remain skeptical.

Consider:

• Apple prefers to keep a performance advantage on premium lines.
  
• Current Pentium Ms have a performance advantage over G5s at the same clock speed, and they go a lot higher than 1.6 ghz. The Yonah core will widen the gap in performance per mhz and number of mhz, particularly in floating point performance where Pentium Ms are currently weak.
  
• Therefore it will be difficult for Apple to put Pentium Ms in iBooks before PowerBooks. Apple is unlikely to ship an iBook with decreased clock speed over the current versions, and at 1.4 ghz a Pentium M still does well against a 1.6 ghz G5.
  
• The new Yonah core will have dual-core versions, and even under emulation a dual-core 2 ghz Pentium M will have acceptable performance compared to a 1.6 ghz G5. It may not be faster, but it's not going to be that much slower.
  
• Apple never shipped a computer with a 68060 chip, despite the fact that they were much faster than 68040s. PowerPC emulating 68k was faster than a 68040 natively but not faster than a 68060.

It's possible Apple will ship a G5 PowerBook, but it would put them in a pretty awkward position.

Re:Not a chance.

[The Lynxpro]

"You make an interesting point. I hadn't considered that."

And in turn, you brought up further interesting points....material of which I did want to address in my prior post, but I didn't want to come off looking like a combative ass on here in the process. Not any more than my usual self. :)

"Current Pentium Ms have a performance advantage over G5s at the same clock speed, and they go a lot higher than 1.6 ghz."

Very true. But as long as Apple keeps some G5 chips in the product line, they can always make the claim (more or less) that the Ghz factor different is superficial due to the processor architecture differences. What hurts their credibility on this is the reports that the developer Intel based Macs are running universal binaries faster than the existing PowerMac G5 line.

Perhaps the Apple folks should be touting the Intel switch for the real reasons why they made the processor switch, that being the volume discounts. Intel can sell them chips for the iPods, offer them the XScale chips for a Mac Tablet/Video iPod/New Newton/TiVo esque set-top-box, offer them Wifi/WiMax chips, graphics chips, PCIe controller chips, you name it. And they can do that cheaper and arguably more reliably than IBM or AMD. Performance is not so much the true reason for the switch as opposed to gaining a more reliable manufacturer and one that can reduce Apple's costs. Plus, as I speculated on MacRumors, the trademarking of the "MacTel" name might indicate an actual new brand for the Macintosh line (like the iBooks and iMacs). If Intel is touted as a co-partner in Apple Mac platform development, that might mean not only kickbacks for advertising, but also some shared R&D dollars, which brings a smile to the faces of Apple shareholders like CalPERS.

"The Yonah core will widen the gap in performance per mhz and number of mhz, particularly in floating point performance where Pentium Ms are currently weak. Therefore it will be difficult for Apple to put Pentium Ms in iBooks before PowerBooks. Apple is unlikely to ship an iBook with decreased clock speed over the current versions, and at 1.4 ghz a Pentium M still does well against a 1.6 ghz G5."

Very true. The best candidates for the Intel transition are the iBooks and the Mac Minis since the iLife Apps are already universal binaries, but then those systems might outperform the iMac and PowerMac/PowerBook lines on those same apps. The other problem is that there are plenty of other Joe Consumer off-the-shelf apps that haven't been converted either so Joe Consumer might buy a Mac Mini or an iBook and encounter software that won't run (or run decently) on their new Intel based Macs. That might tempt them to dual boot Windows and lesson the whole impact of the *switch* to the Apple platform. Its a real Catch-22 Apple has got itself into with its "Osborne Effect" announcement, even if it was necessary.

The other issue is stepping back from 64-bit back down to 32-bit. While I could see that for the portable line (since they were only G4s) and the Mac Mini, I can't see Apple doing that for the PowerMacs. Me thinks Apple won't switch those until there's a non-*Itanic*II 64-bit offering from Intel.

"The new Yonah core will have dual-core versions, and even under emulation a dual-core 2 ghz Pentium M will have acceptable performance compared to a 1.6 ghz G5. It may not be faster, but it's not going to be that much slower."

There's always the chance that Intel might botch the chip and miss the release date on the Yonah chips. And there's always the chance (however doubtful) that Freescale might deliver that dual core G4 chip. But probably not.

"Apple never shipped a computer with a 68060 chip, despite the fact that they were much faster than 68040s. PowerPC emulating 68k was faster than a 68040 natively but not faster than a 68060."

Apple never shipped a 68060 because they were committed to the transition to the PowerPC line. The PowerPC 601/603 (I'm citing them since they were t

Re:Not a chance.

[Dharh]

I think the trademark of the "MacTel" name is just to cover their ass.

Re:Not a chance.

[ArbitraryConstant]

"Very true. But as long as Apple keeps some G5 chips in the product line, they can always make the claim (more or less) that the Ghz factor different is superficial due to the processor architecture differences. What hurts their credibility on this is the reports that the developer Intel based Macs are running universal binaries faster than the existing PowerMac G5 line."

Indeed. And the professional types buying PowerMacs and PowerBooks are in general more capable of objectively assessing the performance (PowerPC zealots notwithstanding). I'm sure there will be readily available benchmarks. If a Pentium M iBook is faster and someone buys it when they would have been willing to pay for a PowerBook, Apple misses out on a fair amount of money.

"The other problem is that there are plenty of other Joe Consumer off-the-shelf apps that haven't been converted either so Joe Consumer might buy a Mac Mini or an iBook and encounter software that won't run (or run decently) on their new Intel based Macs."

I think Joe Consumer doesn't have much software that won't run under emulation. The heavily optimized, CPU-bound stuff is generally professional territory, and the G4s in PowerBooks are slow enough that it may not matter. The people that need to watch out are the ones running optimized software on a G5.

"The other issue is stepping back from 64-bit back down to 32-bit. While I could see that for the portable line (since they were only G4s) and the Mac Mini, I can't see Apple doing that for the PowerMacs. Me thinks Apple won't switch those until there's a non-*Itanic*II 64-bit offering from Intel."

I agree, but Intel has x86-64 Pentiums. The portable chips aren't there yet, but in 2006-2007 Intel will be transitioning the Pentium M to their desktop and server lines and adding 64-bit support. There are even rumors that Pentium M 64-bit support will be available in the first half of 2006. I imagine Apple will transition PowerMacs when Pentium M based Xeons with 64-bit support are available since they need dual processors.

As you say it's not an issue on PowerBooks, and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were willing to put a 32-bit chip in iMacs. That being said, it'll really be a shame if isn't fully 64-bit from day 1. Transitioning like this is an opportunity to ditch a lot of legacy stuff. If they're not 64-bit, they'll need all new drivers when they do end up switching and getting 3rd party drivers for OS X is like pulling teeth as it is.

"Perhaps Apple/Motorola should have stripped the 68040 emulation from the PowerPC chip and simply bundled the 68060 in addition, but that wouldn't have weeded off a lot of the developers from that chip"

It makes sense for Apple to do the same thing on PowerPC. They need people to switch quickly.

Rumor or not...

[kcwookie]

If Apple wants to get the school crowd they need to get a new one out VERY soon. I don't think waiting until the end of the school year for an Intel based iBook is good for business. The only reason to consider buying one now is for the iPod mini is you are a college student.

Another round of faulty logic boards?

[DesertEagleMan]

I really can't understand why people still drool over this POS hardware. FYI the logic board problems have not been resolved yet. The G4 iBooks are plagued with the exact same logic board problems as the G3s. This wouldn't be that bad if the G4s were covered under Apple's recall program but unfortunately they're are not. It will probably take another class action before they even acknowledge the problem. I seriously hope that Apple have learned from their past mistakes and have designed a completely new logic board for this iBook update. If not, be prepared for another round of whacky trackpads and dead screens.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[cbiffle]

I really can't understand why people still drool over this POS hardware.

Because my G4 iBook does exactly what I need it to, and hasn't yet suffered from this Big Scary Logic Board problem?

This is like saying "I don't know why people still buy iPods, FYI their batteries only last 18 months!" Sure, that may be true for some, but my friend's four-year-old first-gen iPod is still going strong.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[JackAxe]

I was worried about this since my friend's G3 900 has had 2 logic board replacements now. But I went ahead and set my parents up with a 1Ghz iBook last year and they haven't had any problems. They were even in the clear from the battery recall that happened recently. Im hoping Asus got it right with these newer mobos, from what I understand, only the first rev G4 iBooks had problems.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mileage may vary.

My iBook, one logic board a year for the past 3 years.

My Gen 1 iPod, one hour battery life and loose headphone jack.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[Blakey Rat]

I had (a few) bad logic boards in my G3 iBook. After the third logic board went bad, I got the guy at the Apple Store to declare the computer a lemon (3 AppleCare repairs = lemon) and I got me a brand new G4 iBook. They were even nice enough to let me keep the extra power adapter.

So the logic boards might still suck, but if you have AppleCare, and back up your data regularly, you should still be set.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[blonde rser]

Just a note. My G4 just crapped out 4 or so months out of warranty (issue with the power cable between the mainboard and the display). I called up apple and they are repairing everything free of charge. So yes there isn't a recall but the problems are much less frequent than they were with the G3's and they are repairing them out of warranty. I'm actually pretty impressed at how apple will take care of their customers.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[Slashcrap]

So the logic boards might still suck, but if you have AppleCare, and back up your data regularly, you should still be set.

So, as long as you don't mind taking in your laptop for repair 3 or 4 times over a short period and the constant risk of losing your data, it's a great laptop?

Another one for the Loony Apple Zealot scrapbook I think.

Also, are there any Apple fans reading that can instantly mod this post flamebait to prevent the faithful being contaminated by my heresy? Thanks in advance.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards?

[5plicer]

If by POS you means point-of-sale, it's because they can run Delicious Library on it :p

Again,why do you even bother?

[JackAxe]

Are you saying that they're marketing towards you? Don't flatter your self.

If you had a Mac with OS X, you could press "control+command+d" and roll over the word "ignorance" to get its definition. Here's the definition; "Lack of knowledge or information." This applies to most peeps that are higly critical about the Mac, believe that they're expensive, and that people only buy them for show. Look up the words "productivity," "quality," and "reliability." Also look into the phrase, "you get what you pay for." This should give you a better understanding of the Macintosh, and why people invest in them.

BTW. My parents are not yuppies, nor are they wealthy, but yet they own an iBook. Gee, there goes your whole theory. I'm just going to assume you would rather linger in your own ignorance, then knowing the truth.

Why don't you register, or is "laziness" also a trate you share with ignorance?

Re:Again,why do you even bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you register, or is "laziness" also a trate you share with ignorance?

is spelling not a "trate" you hold?

Bright screen-User built laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I built a UNIWILL 258KA0 laptop (Athlon 64 3700+,Suse Linux 9.3-64 bit version). I has an EXTREMELY BRIGHT 15.4 widescreen, but uses a lot of power, 160W, the power brick weighs 2.3 pounds (the laptop 7.7 pounds).

It was very cheap too, the bare laptop was only $690 (from coboc.com, a subsidiary of abspc.com). I had all other components ready (a spare CPU, a laptop dvd writer-I only needed to buy a UNIWILL bezel for $3, I also had a couple of 100GB Seagate Momentum laptop drives around). I did not have unused RAM, but by moving memory around from other laptops in our lab, I managed to 'extract' 1GB of 200 pin PC2700 333MHZ DDR. A bit slow, the bare laptop also takes 400MHZ RAM, but I did not have any, the 333MHZ RAM was free. I also 'extracted' a mini-pci abg wireless card. The great thing was, I did not have to pay for the Microsoft tax.

I hope in a year or two we will manage to build our own mac laptops, too.

Never mind my previous post.

[JackAxe]

I'm a tard, you're correct about the VGA out.

Avoid Acer

[Anonymous Coward]

Acer screens are great if all you want to do is watch videos and use office. But for games they have a huge problem. That problem is black. Any black pixels will ghost like hell. HL2 looks horrid on my friends 19" acer. My 17" Syncmaster looks much better even if it is small.

That said, for the majority of moms and dads Acer now is a fairly good deal. Esp if you buy from newegg 'cause the 19" is around $269 now.

I've got about 500 reasons...

[argent]

12" ... $1499 - $999 = $500
15" ... $1999 - $1499 = $500

Acer: VERY BAD plastics

[Anonymous Coward]

New Acer laptops are OK but after 3 or more years of use the plastics start to crack and finally disintegrate. Some Acer models made of metal (tm 35x, 36x series) start to corrode. This is less likely to happen with other brands. The Apple, Sony, Toshiba, Fujitsu laptops I purchased last 12 years they are all in working condition, and used by some members of my family and friends (I never sell my old laptops, instead I give them to relatives and friends). From my own experience Fujitsu laptops have very good plastics and last a long time.

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[chasingporsches]

hahahahaha wow. i guess you missed the sarcastic tone of this ENTIRE thread.

Hello, McFly, this is the 21st century calling...

[argent]

Do you know how many folks are sill using OS9 on a G3? I would guess 100's of thousands.

Hello, folks, OS9 is dead. It died when Apple dropped the "G4 that still boots OS 9" from the Apple Store and nobody bitched about it. That's when Steve Jobs realised he could finally stake it through the heart like he wanted to do back in 1997. I'm running Jaguar on a 7500 and Panther on a Rev D iMac G3. Anyone with a Mac newer than those should be running OS X.

Some Mac vendors -first- OS X version of software just came out -this- year.

Dino-bloody-sores.

Yes, you're naive.

[argent]

Most people who are willing to purchase an Apple are not the kind of people who do things in half measures and would probably fork out the extra coinage for a Powerbook.

Two words. Mac mini.

Re:Hello, McFly, this is the 21st century calling.

[drsmithy]

I'm running Jaguar on a 7500 and Panther on a Rev D iMac G3. Anyone with a Mac newer than those should be running OS X.

Whoa. Clearly patience is a virtue you have in spades.

Re:Would be unusual to upgrade before back-to-scho

[adamjaskie]

However, they have also historically upgraded in April, so they are several months overdue for an upgrade. They may be waiting on the iBooks to corrispond with new Powerbooks, whihc are nearing the end of their normal development cycle.

However, while iBooks have had a fairly regular update cycle, powerbooks are somewhat scattered. Look at the graphs on the Macrumors.com buyers' guide.

Re:Hello, McFly, this is the 21st century calling.

[DebianDog]

Well -I- have had a mac 4+ years and have NEVER used OS 9 I am saying that a lot of people do and a lot of venders have not ported... that's all.

Re:Hello, McFly, this is the 21st century calling.

[argent]

Clearly patience is a virtue you have in spades.

Not as much as someone who's running OS9.

GOD that thing got on my -ing nerves the way it just blocked me from doing ANYTHING whenever a couple of applications were sitting there doing some kind of Alphonse-Gaston dithering deciding who was going to have the mouse and screen.

Why couldn't Apple have taken advantage of the 68000-PPC switch to get rid of that stinking excuse of a joke of an OS called "Mac OS".

wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Add in 512 ram, 60GB HDD, bluetooth, then compare the price. Only ~$300 in difference. Don't compare completely different machines. Not to mention faster ram/FSB, and 5200rpm hard drives on the powerbook. Not the same machine, and for power users the $300 for a better machine is worth it. 4200rpm drives are horribly slow.
----------------
Posting A/C to keep my mods on this article.

Anyone else try and ignore news like this?

[greenhybrid]

Anyone else try and ignore news like this? I just bought my 15" Powerbook about a month ago. 1.67 G4 with upgrades to 1.5 GB RAM. Now, I love my computer, but I really hate to see upgrades right after I buy. As an incoming college freshman this is the largest purchase I've ever made. About $3000 total now including accessories. iBook updates mean PowerBook updates. They've got to. Sometime soon, at least. As long as any new PowerBook comes out from September on I'll be fine, since school starts in August. But, still, knowing I have an older version will always make me red!

Re:Anyone else try and ignore news like this?

[Durf]

Will your 1.67 G4 machine magically start sucking once a 1.8 model is released? By my calculations every computer ever created has been superseded by a faster one with more features.

(I do understand the "damn, should have waited a bit longer" feeling, though. But if you got a sweet computer it'll remain sweet--and usable--for a long time, no matter what comes out later.)

thinkpad resolutions

[xeno]

There are quite a few variations, but here are the ones I'm familiar with:

T23 ~1.13ghz 14.1" 1400x1050 used S2 SuperSavage IX/MX
T30 ~1.6ghz 14.1" 1400x1050 used ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 16 MB AGP 4X
T40/T40p ~2ghz 14.1" 1400x1050 uses ATI Mobility FireGL 9000 64 MB AGP 4X

Also, the older A31p had a 15" screen at 1600x1200 (UXGA) using a ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 64 MB. However, the A31p was rather large (it and the A30p were the only models with two ultrabays, IIRC) and required a laptop bag that was closer to a gurney than your typical wheeled affair.

J

But they ARE completely different machines!

[argent]

Add in 512 ram, 60GB HDD, bluetooth, then compare the price. Only ~$300 in difference. Don't compare completely different machines.

Why not? I didn't say "it's $500 more and it's not worth it", I just said "it's $500 more". If you can't afford that $500, it doesn't matter what you get for it.

This is the mistake that people keep making over and over and over again. They go, "look, the Mac Mini costs more than an entry level PC, but you get firewire and this and that and something else". People with a limited budget don't operate that way, they buy what they can afford. And if what they can afford is a 12" iBook, then that's what they buy. The fact that they can get a bettermachine for $500 more is irrelevant.

---------
And someone who thinks a "-1 Flamebait" is too important to put his name on a posting... well, "Anonymous Coward" is too kind.

the horrible truth:

[ne0n]

"They speculate that the new iBooks might have a widescreen display. I sure hope they are right! I've been waiting to buy one of those suckers for half a year now!"

Well, nearly every slashdotter has been waiting to buy one of these suckers for half the price already. Maybe in half a year they'll be half-price? when Intel speculation finally grabs hold?

I don't get the fascination with widescreen.

[paulbiz]

Is it just me, or are you just getting less screen for your money when you buy widescreen? Why would you want the top couple inches of your display area chopped off? If you want a portable DVD player, you can buy one for a lot less than that!

Re:I don't get the fascination with widescreen.

[mh101]

With a widescreen monitor, you're not getting the top cut off, but you're getting the sides extended. On a current 14" iBook, your resolution would be 1024x768. The 15" widescreen Powerbooks have a resolution of 1280x854 so it actually has more pixels in both dimensions.

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[marcushe]

I'm an Apple Rep in North Carolina, and I assure you they tell us nothing. The "G6" your talking about will either be the dual-core G5, or the Pentium PowerMacs.

Apple lawsuit

[ross.w]

against Thinkecret in 3...2...1...

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[CaffeinieBaby]

I'm waiting for a P5 ibook.

Re:Would be unusual to upgrade before back-to-scho

[Hes Nikke]

Look at the graphs on the Macrumors.com buyers' guide.
Look at the links to the Macrumors.com buyers' [sic] guide.

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[jellomizer]

It brings up the question if Apple will call its Intel Based Chips the G6. Much like the renamed IBMs chip the G5 while it wasn't its actual name. I am not sure what the G stands for my best guess is Generation So this would be the Generation 6 Processor, It doesn't make sense anymore because it It would be like a G1 Apple Intel Processor. But by calling it a G6 it may make it easier to know what processor you have. Much like the Pentium 4. Were the Name Pentium was the new name for the 586 (Pent a prefix for 5) So The Pentium 2, 3, and for would be the 686, 786, 886 respectively if they used the old number scheme. But people feel better when their number is higher then the one they got before. Having a P4 is better then having and Octium (Which sounds like a body part).

Why disable a feature that people don't use?

[falconwolf]

Better question, why have the "feature" there at all if people won't use it? By putting it in then disabling it you're making it cost more. Leave it out then the effort won't be needed to install then even more effort to disable it.

Falcon

dual monitors

[falconwolf]

I don't even see how people use them. The one time I tried to use dual monitors with my laptop, I was overwhelmed, and ended up using the second screen to display static documents instead of anything really useful.

Most people don't need dual monitor setups but there are some that while not "NEEDED" (my emphasis) it certainly makes things easier for them. Designers, graphics artists, photographers, and other artists for instance. A photographer using photoshop can have the photo their working on displayed on a big monitor and have the tools they need on a smaller monitor. This way the tools are visible and readily available but out of the way. This is what I did years ago when I used Dreamweaver. Now, as an amateur photographer I want to be able to do the same with PS or another capable photo editing app once I learn to use it.

Falcon

Re:Hello, McFly, this is the 21st century calling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why couldn't Apple have taken advantage of the 68000-PPC switch to get rid of that stinking excuse of a joke of an OS called "Mac OS".

Answer: the Copland project failed so badly they had to start over again with Rhapsody which hit another speedbump (adding Carbon) on the way to becoming OS X.

No Widescreen iBooks!

[tavilach]

The day Apple releases widescreen iBooks is the day OS X will run on Intel! Mwahahaha!

Oh. Wait.

educational computer

[falconwolf]

In my day, after walking uphill to school, we used macs exclusively- they used to be the education machine, remember?

Yeap, back in the mid to late '80s Apple offered a %50 educational discount. Now it's about %10. Recently though I've come across news articles about how school X or school district Y has made a deal with Apple to issue a Mac laptop to all the students. Here's one: Texas students to receive 400 iBooks when school starts .

Falcon

Intel Powerbooks

[falconwolf]

I would imagine that when the announce a new PowerBook, it will have the Intel chips in it.

I hope they announce it in Nov, Dec, or early Jan. I'm planning on getting a G4 Powerbook in Jan and hope such an accouncement will mean the prices of G4s will drop. Then again if they do and the price is good then I may get an Intel Powerbook instead.

Falcon

Re:Obligatory rant... extended

[chasingporsches]

i cant believe people modded me down after being 5-Funny! people, it was a joke! there will be no g5 ibooks, and there is no g6 in the works! some people just need a sense of humor, and experience on /.

be a man

[cerebralpc]

be a man - and buy that iBook right now!!

How about screens that don't suck

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Am I the only one who finds Apple's laptop screens quite poor? Even the way-too-big 17 inch Powerbook has a miserable 1440x900 display. WTF? A friend of mine's Dell laptop has a 1680x1050 display, and it's only 15 inches!! With Apple, a 15 inches Powerbook gives you a mere 1280x854. Yuck.

Anyway I hope they'll upgrade to non-shitty screens before the Intel machines get out. I'm planning on making the Switch(tm) to an Apple laptop as soon as they start selling their x86 models, but their screens are a real show-stopper for me.

Re:Another round of faulty logic boards? NO

[dirkstoop]

Sorry, but that's simply not true.

I work at the support department of the largest Apple reseller in the Netherlands and while I have taken in piles of G3 iBooks with the same logic board problem, I have seen only one (1) iBook G4 with similar issues the past year.