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Videogames: In the Beginning

evanak (Evan Koblentz) writes "Last year, at the PhillyClassic videogame event, I noticed a teenager wearing an ironic t-shirt. His shirt showed an original Nintendo controller and said 'Know your roots.' Sadly, it's not just modern youngsters who are unaware of their technological roots -- sometimes even we self-proclaimed adult über nerds are equally unaware. Regarding videogames, this is especially true, and now industry pioneer Ralph Baer is trying to rectify the situation. His attempt takes the form of a sincere autobiography, although with mixed results. The book is titled Videogames: In the Beginning." Read on for the rest of Koblentz's review. Videogames: In the Beginning author Ralph Baer pages 260 publisher Rolenta Press rating 8 reviewer Evan Koblentz ISBN 0964384817 summary Autobiography of the inventor of home videogames

According to Rolenta publisher Lenny Herman (the author of Phoenix: The Fall & Rise of Videogames), Baer became interested in documenting his own experiences a few years ago, when the mainstream media began heaping praise with increasing frequency on Atari founder Nolan Bushnell.

Baer begins his story as expected: a detailed explanation of why he, not Bushnell, should be called the father of videogames. Baer, as Slashdot readers probably know, invented the prototype console that eventually became the Magnavox Odyssey. He explains that he suggested building a game feature to differentiate Loral Electronics' high-end televisions in 1951, but that his idea was declined by management; that he got serious about the idea and built his first prototype while working at defense contractor Sanders Associates in late 1966; and that Bushnell attended a demonstration (and signed the guestbook) in 1972 before founding Atari and consequently building his own version of Pong.

That's fair, and if Baer were to conclude the first chapter with the book's subtitle -- "the inventor of home videogames" (note the qualifier of "home" vs. "all") -- then it would be an acceptable story. However, he takes the argument into a different and surprising direction. He asserts that everything before his time -- such as Willy Higginbotham's 1958 oscilloscope-based tennis game at Brookhaven National Laboratory and MIT hacker Steve Russell's Spacewar from the 1960s -- were not "real" games simply because they used non-standard screens and weren't commercially viable. (But so what? They were no less entertaining. By common sense, and not a console purist's definition, a "videogame" is a game played on a video screen, period. I'm sorry if Bushnell gets credit for the invention of practical, home videogames where Baer rightfully deserves it, but that's no reason to indict the whole history of creative computer science.)

Happily, the Baer drops the matter after the first chapter, and continues telling the story of his adventures working with Sanders and Magnavox. Better yet, it turns out that these adventures are fascinating and worth reading no matter when or what Baer originally invented. Among the technologies he helped to develop were methods for delivering game content over cable television networks, the use of cartridges for storing game data, interactive videotape and videodisk systems, instant-replay features for sports games, and methods for drawing on the screen. He also invented the famous electronic Simon toy. For most of this time, he made a living by designing military simulators for Sanders Associates. In addition, for most of these issues, Baer includes not just prose about the how and why, but also detailed and full-color technical notes, illustrations, and even schematics. There are also sections focusing on the business issues he faced while trying to get Magnavox and other large corporations (such as Coleco and Nintendo) interested in his unproven ideas, which of course were correct, or else you wouldn't be read this. Another section of the book deals with lawsuits involving Bushnell.

Baer has two more treats for us before closing his autobiography. First, he includes eight appendices, focusing on the Simon and other toys; a television games chronology; a Magnavox timeline; notebook entries from 1966-1972; patents; schematics and experiments; timelines of all of his projects sorted by date and category; and a bibliography. Second, for hands-on readers, there is an optional CD available for $10, which includes the necessary information for building your own Brown Box prototype and with video of Baer demonstrating how to play it. (My review copy didn't include the CD, so I'm basing this on what's stated in the book and on an email from the publisher.)

Overall, I recommend checking out this book. There are other videogame histories, but none so thorough from the perspective of a pioneer who actually lived it. If you can get past the controversial first chapter, you will find a great tale of ingenuity, persistence, ambition, and justice, along with some very cool technological insights. Or, as summarized by Steve Wozniak on the back cover, "I can never thank Ralph enough for what he gave to me and everyone else." Game on!

You can purchase Videogames: In the Beginning from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

410 comments

  1. Ah the influence of old games by towaz · · Score: 5, Funny

    "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
    1. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 0, Redundant
      "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

      You're not?

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    2. Re:Ah the influence of old games by towaz · · Score: 1

      well no not personally but that does not stop most the uk every weekend.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
    3. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Cybrex · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hee hee. I've got that on a t-shirt.

      --
      Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
    4. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure what this 'most' you talk about is, I don't even like sitting in the dark.

    5. Re:Ah the influence of old games by hoggoth · · Score: 0, Redundant

      > "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

      It's a good thing that didn't happen.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    6. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      I admit I only fit two of the three: My parent's basement is dark, and I like techno music. Never got into pills of any sort.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    7. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't this describe the behavior of the average raver?

    8. Re:Ah the influence of old games by robson · · Score: 1
      "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

      You're not?
      Lisa: I think that was implied in the tone.
      Homer: Implied, Lisa, or implode?
    9. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Genesis of Video Games
      ----------------------
      In the beginning, the world was without form. Then, god (a.k.a. Nolan Bushnell) said, "Let there be light!". And the Atari Pong game was born.

    10. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Woosh!

      By the way, that quote is from Marcus Brigstocke.

    11. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down. I bet you're French, aren't you?

    12. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean freedom?

    13. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever been to a rave?

    14. Re:Ah the influence of old games by KiltedMan · · Score: 0

      Evidently someone's never been to a rave.

    15. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, can everyone please stop pointing out that this is about ravers? Thank you.

    16. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always laughed at that, especally if you consider these posibilites:
      dark rooms = where raves are held (black lights and other flashing still make it an overall dark room)
      munching pills = extacy
      repetitive music = techno

      Just one of those "hmm..." things

    17. Re:Ah the influence of old games by nherm · · Score: 5, Funny

      "If slashdot had affected us as geeks we'd be coding in dark rooms, munching doritos and posting repetitive comments"

    18. Re:Ah the influence of old games by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      That's the point.

    19. Re:Ah the influence of old games by drsquare · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a sorry day when the most unoriginal, trite, predictable, unfunny comment is not only first post, but modded up to +5.

      Why can't people think before posting?

    20. Re:Ah the influence of old games by deesine · · Score: 0



      Really?

      --
      damaged by dogma
    21. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      the whole quote is:

      Computer games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music. -- kristian wilson, CEO Nintendo 1989

    22. Re:Ah the influence of old games by DavidTC · · Score: 0

      What's really sad is half the replies don't seem to be grasping the fact it's a joke.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    23. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Leon.Net · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Thank you. For a bulletin board that's normally so sharp and astute, this one really slipped through the net huh. Apparently there's a pope over here shitting in the woods.

    24. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah Hem. Lemme clear my throat, before I say...

      "WOOOOOOOOOSH!"

    25. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Leon.Net · · Score: 1

      wowsers, just registered now to post for the first time and.. what's..going..on with the threading?

    26. Re:Ah the influence of old games by scbysnx · · Score: 0

      take some more pills man

    27. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IT'S A FUCKING JOKE you absolute moron!!!!!!!! The whole idea of that quote is that people do do that, in raves! God how could anyone be so thick as to not see that the quote is ironic!

    28. Re:Ah the influence of old games by openpoop · · Score: 1, Funny

      Isn't the real irony that most people who go to raves now are too young have heard of pacman?

    29. Re:Ah the influence of old games by daVinci1980 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "If slashdot had affected us as geeks we'd be coding in dark rooms, munching doritos and posting repetitive comments" /ducks

      --
      I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
    30. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Since he said it's "unfunny," I doubt he doesn't know it's a joke. I also doubt that most people don't realize that. See, the problem here is that it is a stupid, unfunny joke.

    31. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our photophobic, Dorito-munching overlords!

      Now, if you'll excuse me, I should get back to coding... right after I get a bag of Doritos.

    32. Re:Ah the influence of old games by el_nino · · Score: 0

      It was a good joke when Marcus Brigstocke first cracked it. Since then it has travelled the internets and been attributed to people like Bill Gates and Nintendo's Kristian Wilson, and like with many good jokes many years later lots of people still miss the point.

    33. Re:Ah the influence of old games by gmby · · Score: 1

      What is, a RAVE?

      --
      I don't want a pickle; I just want a Motor-Cycle! A four foot cop arrived with a five foot gun!
    34. Re:Ah the influence of old games by databeast · · Score: 1

      except this line was never said by anyone at Nintendo, and *definately* not by a CEO in 1989, a time when rave culture was very much still underneath the cultural radar of 98% of the planet.

    35. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Craig_P92669 · · Score: 0

      geeks = slashdot editors

      fi,nsdd

      --
      http://xs4.xs.to/pics/04481/p556222.gif
    36. Re:Ah the influence of old games by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      What is, a RAVE?

      A place people go to lose 30 pounds more than they can afford, grow pasty white and become bisexual?

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    37. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit happens +5

    38. Re:Ah the influence of old games by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      I didn't mean the person I replied to didn't think it was a joke. I was agreeing with him that it was an old, unfunny joke, but also commenting that almost no one else seemed to realize that.

      Although, really, if no one can recognize it, it can't be that old a joke. ;)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    39. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How nice, a goatse post.
      (Copy/past URL, see the goatse.ca bit at the end)

    40. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the proper attribution.

      -MB

    41. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

      Isn't that called a techno party ?

    42. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you're already at +2, and your post was unoriginal, trite, predictable and unfunny as well.

    43. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is, a RAVE?

      Imagine PacMan with skinnier ghosts.

    44. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so you go to clubs too?

    45. Re:Ah the influence of old games by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      Maybe it really was said by a CEO in 1989, when rave culture was still underground, and he was being SERIOUS
      (but it is funny now because ... well because it is funny (trust me, it's funny.))

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    46. Re:Ah the influence of old games by databeast · · Score: 1

      yes its funny now
      no it wasnt said by any damn CEO in `89.
      end of story

  2. Random by phaetonic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are there any people out there who reminice once and a while about the days of playing Doom over IPX with 3 other players on various BBS's over 14.4K and having rocket wars? I found those days especially fun, even tho technology is so much better today.

    1. Re:Random by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 1

      Ahh, yes. The day we had to decide between another 4MB of RAM or upgrading the modem from a 2400bps to 14.4k. They both ran about $150. I think we chose the 14.4k. I was sick of watching the letters appear on my screen one at a time on the local BBSs.

    2. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's because better graphics doesnt equal better games.

    3. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and remember the old broadcast packets problem with the original Doom and how network admins at work used to come yell at you when you took the corporate LAN down playing it!

    4. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yep! loved doom ipx! things really opened up for me with kali dos and descent.

    5. Re:Random by the_greywolf · · Score: 1

      i stuck with the 2400 (TW2002's movies were more watchable on 2400 than 33.6) and instead got another 4MB memory and a coprocessor. Imagine 3D v2.0 simply FLEW after that!

      --
      grey wolf
      LET FORTRAN DIE!
    6. Re:Random by yaroze32 · · Score: 0

      yes especially if you were one of the admins, who installed it on the netowk in the 1st place

      oh those were the days

    7. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me the high point of gaming was playing Warcraft 2 over Kali, the ancient ipx emulator for tcpip. I swear to god, I must've wasted an entire year's worth of time invisible mage-bombing peon lines into oblivion.

      Ah, the memories.. Nothing today quite compares.

    8. Re:Random by Pxtl · · Score: 1

      Really? From what I played of WC2 online, 90% of the gameplay involved using hordes of grunts to stomp the enemy into oblivion. For my illicit-LAN-gaming in highschool, it was Doom, Liero, Descent, and a little tank game I'd made in VB for class. That was, until we got 2 computers in the drafting lab and set up BattleZone '98 and Quake 2.

      So, how many out there first became gamers thanks to the true father-box of gaming, the Commodore 64?

    9. Re:Random by Pope · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even better: Doom 2 played over a serial connection from a 486DX/66 to a Power Mac 7100, side-by-side on the same desk, with a piece of cardboard between the monitors.

      And of course with simpsons.wad for the FX! :)

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    10. Re:Random by Morgalyn · · Score: 1

      Man, those tradewars movies were great, weren't they?

      --
      You say you got a real solution
      Well, you know
      We'd all love to see the plan
      (The Beatles)
    11. Re:Random by alva_edison · · Score: 1

      Yes, Debbie Does Rigel was my favorite. Those were the days, setup a nice planetary trade route (Level 4 citadel required) and watch the credits roll in, especially since you didn't use turns doing this.

      --
      He effected a bored affect.
    12. Re:Random by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And yet the Atari has a classic game collection disk for consoles, and even their own console with ROM-stored classic games in it. The Intellivision has a classic games collection for Xbox and probably other platforms. Midway has two.

      Where the hell is the Commodore 64 in all this? I want to play retro C-64 games legally, damnit. I've done the Atari, I've done the Intellivision, give me my C-64!

    13. Re:Random by techwolf · · Score: 1

      It's a bit cheesy, but Jumpman, Wheel of Fortune Winter Games and some lightpen app were my C64 staples.

      LOAD "*",8,1

      Of course, I never knew what it meant, I was only 6 or 7.

      --
      I don't do this for karma, I do it for cash. It's much better.
    14. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Atari 8-bit computers' capabilities blew away the C-64's game playing capabilities. In comparison, the C-64's abilities were not as good or fast as the Atari 8-bit computers.

      Compare any game for the Atari 8-bit computers that were made for the C-64, and you will see that the versions of games for the Atari 8-bit computer are much more visually stunning and more playable.

    15. Re:Random by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      How the hell is that on topic at all? What was the point of posting that? Who gives a shit?

    16. Re:Random by Pxtl · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, because the C64 games were made by a wide variety of developers instead of one company - the atari packs are atari games, the namco packs are namco games... C64 had a plethora of game companies. EA and Activision were a few of the bigger ones... but where's Broderbund now?

    17. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    18. Re:Random by aevan · · Score: 1

      Then let us share of this cheese...'cuz you are far from alone. Those, some NHL Hockey game, Racing Destruction ("what, make your own track AND race it? YAY! ...wtf i can't get up this hill")...Bard's Tale, the TSR Gold Box games...

      That's two thing the C64 had for it..a billion games and rampant piracy :D

      Dammit I want to play jumpman now (the 'ground explodes when you jump level' please).

    19. Re:Random by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Well, again, what's stopping EA from packing up all their games onto a DVD and releasing it for modern consoles? Even a subset of games is better than none. I want to play C-64 games, but I don't want to pirate them... right now that's impossible, since my C-64 disks are all demagnetized.

    20. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      even tho technology is so much better today.

      you answered your own question. ppl still playing doom or 80's fad atari ports need to get into the here and now, IMHO.

    21. Re:Random by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except for the fact that you are completely wrong in every respect.

    22. Re:Random by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      I was gonna say ... yea, everytime we start dreaming happily about the C=64 we all had and loved, there is always one sorry motherfucker that was abused as a child (his parents got him the 8-bit Atari) has to come out with childhood fiction stories like 'Alice in Wonderland', 'Three Bears', and 'how much better the Atari 8-bit machine was than the Commodore 64.'

      Makes me sad, man ... makes me sad.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
  3. Ah, good old times by TarryTops · · Score: 0

    Will check this book out. And hey!! Wher's my Atari!!??

    --
    Java Oracle Linux Enthusiast
  4. I have that shirt! by stipe42 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Bought it at Target, you know, ground zero of everything geek-chic.

  5. well by brandanglendenning · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i don't know how the 'know your roots' t-shirt is ironic. i mean, it's not like everybody is 40 years old and still playing pong. 'your' would imply that the roots he is 'knowing' are relative to his own life, not that of some intelevision spaz touting the depth of burger time gameplay.

    1. Re:well by FidelCatsro · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've been racking my brain to think why it's ironic ... I deduced that the person wearing the t-shirt was in-fact an Atari 2600 joy-stick

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    2. Re:well by Neil+Blender · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not sure why this is flamebait - oh wait - it's Slashdot, the only home of the intelevision spaz with mod points.

    3. Re:well by brandanglendenning · · Score: 0

      to bug you.

    4. Re:well by NightRain · · Score: 1
      Well yes, but if the shirt was written from that angle, it would kinda be self defeating wouldn't it?

      What point is it telling someone to "know their roots" if those roots only have meaning and context for any given person on an individual level?

    5. Re:well by chriswaclawik · · Score: 1
      I've been racking my brain to think why it's ironic ... I deduced that the person wearing the t-shirt was in-fact an Atari 2600 joy-stick

      I think it is more likely that the poster is confusing the word ironic with coincidental, and that the person was, in fact, an original Nintendo controller.

      --
      A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
    6. Re:well by brandanglendenning · · Score: 0

      it'd be the equivalent of somebody from ireland wearing a 'kiss me, i'm a neanderthal' shirt.

    7. Re:well by dlZ · · Score: 1

      I own that t-shirt, actually. I grew up with an Atari in my house, but when *I* first really got into video games was with my NES. My family bought it the Christmas right before my 7th birthday, so to me the NES is my gaming root.

      I remember fighting with my mom to play it all the time, too. We were both in love with Dragon Warrior. Having a geeky mom wasn't always a good thing. We fought over the NES and the C64 constantly.

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    8. Re:well by Steve+Cowan · · Score: 1

      I'm an Intellivision spaz, you insensitive clod!

    9. Re:well by FidelCatsro · · Score: 4, Funny

      Either that or we just discovered Alanis Morissette's user name

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    10. Re:well by brandanglendenning · · Score: 0

      that's a little too ironic.

    11. Re:well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience, even most computer geeks aren't interested in systems from before their time. I suppose it's sad but true that any system is doomed to be forgotten, as better things will eventually take its place.

      I mean, the PDP-11 or whatever it was was the foundation of hacker culture for a while, wasn't it? But I doubt I'd be able to stand more than fifteen minutes of using one.

      There are much more interesting machines now.

    12. Re:well by hazzey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. And how far back are our roots supposed to go? Should he have been wearing a shirt with a tube on it? What about a kite in a lightning storm? A monkey? A pile of goo in the ocean?

    13. Re:well by RentonSentinel · · Score: 1

      Exactly... its not ironic, this pretentious article comment is trying to claim ownership of all "roots". Whatever.

    14. Re:well by Trifthen · · Score: 1

      Right! Except the SNES came out in 1991, effectively ending the life-cycle of the NES about 14 years ago. Now, imagine a teenager wearing a shirt proclaiming roots either before they were born, or before they were four years old. Think about this carefully for a second or two. Freshmen in High School these days were born in the 90's, and would likely see the SNES or Playstation as their identifying console. If it were an SNES controller, it would make perfect sense.

      If I had to hazard a guess, the shirt is aimed at people in their mid to late 20's, or intended as an ironic statement.

      --
      Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
    15. Re:well by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 4, Funny

      i don't know how the 'know your roots' t-shirt is ironic.

      I'm sure NTK used to sell a far more suitable T-shirt for such events, courtesy of the foul-mouthed UK Resistance. Imagine the following, in huge white monospaced lettering on a black shirt:

      10 PRINT "RETRO GAMES ARE SHIT"
      20 GOTO 10


      I'd be amazed if the wearer were to escape alive... ;-]

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    16. Re:well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm only 25 years old, and I still have my original intelivision, so relating people over 40 with intellivision. Anyone who played games before 1985 maybe, but not people born in the 60's...

    17. Re:well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      To appreciate a machine you have to live in it, so to speak. It's not just a toy you tinker with once in a while, it's a tool that you use for something. You've poked around in the corners, and you've found the little gems that make it special -- that make you forgive its quirks, whatever they may be. Someone who's just visiting -- a tourist in your tool, so to speak -- will be likely to see just the quirks at first, particularly if they're already using another tool to do the same thing in a different way. This is where holy wars begin. I won't be so foolish at to name names, but this is the truth from which they all emerge.

      This also feeds the apathy younger geeks have toward ancient technology. How much time would you spend using a random computer that's older than you are, by your own choice? Long enough to find the cool parts?

      And remember that the NES generation has a major obstacle to discovering their gaming prehistory: the flood tide of bad Atari 2600 games that sank the American video game industry. It makes the gems that much harder to find.

    18. Re:well by stunt_penguin · · Score: 1

      Everyone has a moment where it all began, a first encounter with or purchase of a video games system. Those are a person's personal gaming roots. There's nothing particularly ironic about wearing a NES pad on your t-shirt with a 'know your roots' on it. It's more sentimental

      --
      When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
    19. Re:well by fonetik · · Score: 2, Funny
      "not that of some intelevision spaz touting the depth of burger time gameplay."

      Ouch. You know that feeling when you hear a song that came out when you were in high school, and you realize that it's on a classic rock station? Then that jewel in your hand starts blinking, and you hear in your head "Ah, the firey ritual of Carousel... perhaps you'll be renewed!"

      I think i just dated myself in a post about dating myself...

    20. Re:well by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1
      I deduced that the person wearing the t-shirt was in-fact an Atari 2600 joy-stick


      Kind of makes me think of all the tools I see around wearing T-shirts with the Atari logo plastered on them. None of them are old enough to know anything before the Nintendo64/PC era.

      When you quiz them they tell you that Atari is some new fashionable clothes designer or somesuch. They just don't realise the significance of that logo.

      Mmmmm Atari... *me goes out to the "museum room" for a bit of old-fashioned gamin'
      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    21. Re:well by Sathias · · Score: 1

      It must be Alanis Morissette ironic... she came clean in an interview and admitted that when she wrote the song she didn't actually know what ironic meant, hence none of the things described as ironic in it actually are. Now THATS ironic.

      --
      Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
    22. Re:well by databeast · · Score: 1

      hrm, apparently the rest of this thread has damaged my linguistic centres already. I just read your post as kitten in a lightning storm.

    23. Re:well by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1
      while 1: print "Basic is shit"
      That's Python, by the way, and yes, it does run
      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    24. Re:well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dontcha think?!

    25. Re:well by metroid+composite · · Score: 1

      I agree that there's nothing wrong with this "know your roots" T-Shirt.

      Can I honestly say that my roots were Pong or Spacewar? No. I played pong, but frankly there's activities which I honestly preferred (like Table Tennis).

      Can I honestly say that my roots were in the Arcade? I visited the arcade often as I liked videogames, but the idea of pumping in quarters didn't appeal to me due to the stress "this is my only quarter! I have to make this last!!" (and that was when I had quarters to spare).

      So...at least from my perspective, we're down to consoles or PCs to sum up where my enjoyment started. Now, I've played quite a lot of stuff on PC that predates the NES. In fact I have fond memories of an old 8086 Compaq. However, PC hardware is inherently less emblematic (almost nobody would recognize it, and those that do wouldn't necessarily think "videogames" when they saw it. In fact half my aquaintances would think "FORTRAN!!")

      So...we're down to consoles. As mentioned, I never did find Pong to be this great gift to entertainment, but where do we draw the line? Well...what games do people still play today? A quick glance at an infamous 11 minute video tells us that NES games still see play (and indeed I've played an NES within the past year). Earler than NES? Pac-Man and Q*Bert still have frequent competitions...except those are held not on Atari 2600s/Intellivisions but on arcade cabinets, and arcade cabinets something which I've already expressed a desire to avoid.

      Seriously, though, can anyone think of an Atari 2600 or earlier game that originated on a console which people still play? I can think of influential games like Adventure (arguably precursor to Legend of Zelda and the first easter egg) but nobody still plays that outside of historical value (whereas people do still play Legend of Zelda--I know people who've done the "go through LoZ without a sword" as recently as last year).

      For that matter, can anyone think of a game franchise that originated on a pre-NES console and not in the Arcade? There's...Pitfall...I guess. Whereas the NES has Metal Gear, Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Metroid, Zelda, Dragon Warrior....

      And there's just a number of intangibles here too; NES sold miles better than any previous console. Regardless of age, you're going to get more people fondly remembering the NES than the Atari 2600. Granted, this disparity is likely not unrelated to the above noted differences....

      All in all, the NES makes a whole lot of sense as the "roots" of modern day videogames. If someone can find a way to emblemize the Arcades of the early 80s (right around when Galaga, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Q-Bert, Joust, Dig Dug, Galaxian, Missile Command, and Donkey Kong were all released) into one easily recognizable T-Shirt logo, then sure: that might well be the better T-shirt choice. (Though, like I said I wasn't a big arcade person myself). As is? The NES makes far more sense than any other option I can think of (bite me Pong--I don't love you).

    26. Re:well by Carbonated+Milk · · Score: 1

      The irony is that Timothy is implying that this kid is ignorant and superficial...based purely on what he is wearing.

    27. Re:well by macvoodoo · · Score: 1

      Generally 'Your roots' is not limited to just the time you were alive.

    28. Re:well by Evil+Grinn · · Score: 1

      Ouch. You know that feeling when you hear a song that came out when you were in high school, and you realize that it's on a classic rock station?

      The really sad this is that if you're in your late 20's or early 30's, then the "grunge" rock songs that came out then are still being played into the ground on exactly the same stations that played them into the ground back then.

  6. Four Yorkshiremen... by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 1

    Let's get it out there and just start complaining about kids these days and how we started...

    Atari 2600 and Space Invaders (I chewed the controllers)...
    Tandy II TRS-80 (didn't have the tape deck so I couldn't save my programs and it had no monitor - it hooked to a television)

    No punchcards to complain of, but I do recall playing with an abacus when I was in kindergarten...

    (re: subject)

    1. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by sphealey · · Score: 1

      I played Computer Space, which preceeded Pong, and once had the opportunity to buy one. Which I did not do, to my great regret since. I also had a Magnavox Odyssey, although since it had 4 games instead of just a pong-clone it might have been an Odyssey II or something like that. pong-hockey! Whoo hoo!

      sPh

    2. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Snowdog668 · · Score: 1

      My first video game at home was Pong. What was it, three settings? Tennis, handball, and hockey I think.

      Being a second generation computer geek I did have punchcards to play with. Mom started as a keypunch operator back in the '60s and went up to Senior Programmer Analyst before she died last year. When I was a kid she'd bring home punchcards for me and I'd use them to build house-of-cards kind of stuff. Funny aside, when I went into the Army back in '87 I joined a computer unit. One of the first things they did when I got to the unit was to sit me down at the old keypunch machine and have me punch out a bunch of cards. Pretty much everything was on tape at that point but they had to keep cards "just in case". I told my current boss this story so he found a stack of cards for me. I keep 'em on my desk to confuse the young 'uns. :)

      --
      I wouldn't say I'm a bad gambler but the last time I went to Vegas I even lost a buck on the soda machine.
    3. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Enigma_Man · · Score: 1

      Haha, it's funny you mention the 2600, I just dug mine out the other day, complete with scores of busted controllers. My dad and I actually rebuilt some of the controllers with metal posts, instead of the "break me in half please" plastic posts. Those lasted a lot longer.

      -Jesse

      --
      Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
    4. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Fiver- · · Score: 1

      Did anyone have an Atari 5200? The buttons were damn near impossible to press (at least for a 10 year old). My thumb-tips were purple at the end of every Centipede session.

      Did any consoles have a Pause function before the 5200?

    5. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      I also had a Magnavox Odyssey, although since it had 4 games instead of just a pong-clone it might have been an Odyssey II or something like that

      The Odyssey II was a cartiridge-based machine. We had one in the early 80s.

      Had a home "Pong" game before that with 4 games: Pong, Hockey (Pong with walls on the sides), Handball, and a solitare practice mode.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    6. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by sphealey · · Score: 1
      The Odyssey II was a cartiridge-based machine. We had one in the early 80s.

      Had a home "Pong" game before that with 4 games: Pong, Hockey (Pong with walls on the sides), Handball, and a solitare practice mode.

      That sounds like mine, which was yellow and had 4 rheostats but did not have a cartridge slot of any type. I threw it away during a move about 4 years before eBay appeared on the scene. There's another mistake on my ledger.

      sPh

    7. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by spiderbitendeath · · Score: 1

      I've got 2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar, and Lynx II :)

      I liked the 2600 controllers. The new ones for the Atari all-in-one systems disappoint me, I have trouble losing the rubber grip cover.

      --
      Sometimes when I'm working on projects things disappear, I suspect gremlins.
    8. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by plover · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I also had an Odyssey when I was a teen. After taking the cover off I acquired the spec sheet for the chip inside (I can't remember if it was General Instruments or National Semiconductor.) Using the sheet, I soldered in extra wires and ran a new switch to the case so it could play "one-player handball," freeing me from having to beg my sister to play video games. That was a game that the chip supported but was not normally available from the console game selector switch. I also wired it to turn on the "skeet shoot" game, but I was never able to figure out how to make a light-activated "gun" device work.

      I also made an etch-a-sketch type road-racing game on my oscilloscope by tracing a "road" onto a clear piece of cellophane and taping it to the screen. Then, by adjusting the horizontal and vertical offset knobs, I could "drive" the point around the track.

      But try telling that to kids these days and they just don't believe you.

      --
      John
    9. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by deesine · · Score: 0


      Some version of Pong that we could hook up to the TV.

      Then an Atari2600. Figured out an infinite pattern for Pac Man. The birth of saving money to buy video games.

      Kids today can use an emulator and get a real good idea of what game play was like for our generation. What a lot of them are missing is the arcade experience. That period in gaming history that had its own place. That place, the only place, that had the newest and coolest games. Your 2600 couldn't touch that.

      Eagerly feeding the machine gulps of quarters in a fit of "gotta get past this level".

      And the hang. One of the few places totally made for kids. Usually the only adult, was running the place. Competing with your friends and gloating when your initials top list. Taking your medicine when the local champ stuffs you. Unplugging that game just so you can see your name on the scores list, for a while.

      Sure, there are still arcades. But going to an arcade today gets you as close to that golden era in gaming history, as driving a BelAir gets you closer to the 50's car culture.

      --
      damaged by dogma
    10. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by SoCalEd · · Score: 1

      Although I never had to get up in the morning at 10 o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, I too am afflicted. The progression of my disease ran Magnavox Odyssey (the original with overlays) followed by the 2600, 5200, Intellivision, etc.

      At least my geek card is not in danger of revocation. My garage workshop still has a full-blown MAME cabinet (runs Daphne and VPinMame as well), an Atari 2600, 5200, Atari 800XL (with 1050 drive and PC interface) and an NES all hooked up. Oh yeah, and more DVD's of other emulation goodies than I can begin to organize. I also still play the TTY version of Nethack.

      Did I mention my geek card is safe?

      --
      Insert witty comment *here*. I'm fresh out of wit...
    11. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by big+ben+bullet · · Score: 1

      a trs-80 had static memory... so if you where happy keeping one program (game) in memory you didn't need a tape deck... you could just switch it off and pick up exactly where you left it the next time you turned it on ;-)

    12. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 1

      As soon as I turned off my TRS-80, it was cleared completely. There were ROMs for it, but I only had some accounting software ROM and a 12-year-old has very little use for outdated accounting software.

      It started up to a prompt, waiting for BASIC instruction. I remember keeping the thing on for almost a week because I had written a program I couldn't bear to erase...

    13. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Newander · · Score: 1

      I had the same sort of game, but it was woodgrain and had a light gun.

      --

      Jesus saves and takes half damage.

    14. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by buckthorn · · Score: 1

      I had this too, and have been racking my brain to remember what it was. OK maybe "racking my brain" is a little strong, but I do remember.. before I got my Intellivision (Thanks Mom & Dad!), they gave me this neat little game with six games (if memory serves)... Pong and variants, and two target-shooting games. White blocks instead of ducks, but at least an animated dog didn't laugh at you if you missed (although maybe your little brother did).

      In an effort to tell a funny story and get this post modded up, my parents bought me an Intellivision and three games for Christmas. It came with Poker & Blackjack but they got me a few others, once of which was Space Battle (I think Astrosmash was another but I can't be sure). They hooked it up and, my dad being a dad after all, playtested it to make sure everything worked okay. They quickly realized that the fleets in Space Battle were White, Yellow, and Blue... and that it was impossible to distinguish White and Yellow on a Black and White TV. So there are my parents, out on Christmas Eve, RENTING a color TV so I can play my games when I wake up the next morning.

      The more I think about it, the more it makes me respect them.

    15. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by Newander · · Score: 1

      That's a great story. Sorry I can't mod your post up...

      --

      Jesus saves and takes half damage.

    16. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by adamgolding · · Score: 1

      AH YES--i was an NES baby but my first computer was a TRS-80--although i did have the tape deck--my mother and grandmother drove to some small down a few hours away to buy the whole kit and kaboodle for me for like 50 bucks (a screaming deal at the time)--the best thing was that, in addition to many well labelled tapes chock full of games, it came with 2 or 3 'mystery tapes'--nothing labelled, and there were long empty spaces with no programs--i would hunt around, and i found a trivia game, some old files--but the best was when i randomnly chose some number on the tape counter, managed to execute *something* and saw the following message: you are standing in a dense jungle. *cursor blinks* "huh?" you are standing in a dense jungle. you are standing in a dense jungle. you are standing in a dense jungle. ... after a week or so i dicovered that i could type 'north' and 'south' etc. i was amazed the day i finally found that pyramid in that dense jungle! and then the nazi killed me immediately... this was how i discovered text adventures (there was one more to be found on the tape)--they were a real mystery to me until i got the internet several years later and discovered that they were purely some oddity on an unlabeled tape..

    17. Re:Four Yorkshiremen... by buckthorn · · Score: 1

      Well thank you for both sentiments. :) As a parent now myself, I'm amazed at the stuff you do to make your kid's life easier that they'll never even be aware of. Kinda humbling to look back with that in mind.

  7. The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a videogame collection with close to 1000 original game carts and systems as well as thousands more in emulation. When younger kids/relatives come over they don't even know how to USE a NES/SNES let alone an Atari or the likes, but once I brief them they all love them. TAZ for Atari 2600 is one game that holds up so well it is amazing, or Warlords.

    The "roots" of gaming were FUN games, easy play, and great simple control. Gaming really needs to get back to its roots and stop trying to be the next multi-billion hollywood-like crap industry.

    Music has been turned artificial, movies have followed suit, I guess games are next. When people will wake up and stop accepting this crap is beyond me. People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society.

    Ask a teenager to hum or whistle their favorite song... they can't do it because there is nothing but a catchy hook, it's empty. Same thing with games, they have tons of flash and glitz but no soul and it isn't getting any better.

    The only hope is that the Nintendo Revolution claims to simplify the controller so that even a mom can play, with this simplification of controller should force game developers to go back to THEIR roots and begin to produce fun and enjoyable games with some heart put into them.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    1. Re:The sad thing is... by TobyWong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Good games today are also fun, easy to play, with great simple control.

      These are the characteristics that separate the good games from the bad games.

      I was there in the beginning too but I don't subscribe to the notion that all modern games suck/are pure fluff. Due to the amazing properties of nostalgia you just happen to forget all the crappy old games which were no fun, had bad controls, and were frustrating to play.

      IMO, the majority of games past and present range from poor to mediocre but it's those few really good ones that make video gaming such an enjoyable pastime.

      --
      - Toby
    2. Re:The sad thing is... by FLAGGR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Alright, you know all these things are relative? Who made you the sole decider of what has soul or not? I admit I hate most movies/music these days, but the crap:good ratio is about the same as 20 years ago, you just don't remember the crap, you remember the classics. Also, it appears that you've just got a hate-on for new stuff. Did you have to walk 15 miles, in snow, uphill both ways to school when you were a kid?

      I have an atari 2600 emulator on my xbox. I can't stand the majority of the games. I'm not a graphics-loving omg-i-need-more-polygons whore, but the graphics are a serious impedement to game play for me. Green blocks and blinking pixels doesn't translate into fun for me. Personally, the NES is where games get fun for me. Tetris doesn't have flashy graphics, but it's fun. It's all personal prefrence. To me, Atari games generally don't have soul, they feel like a neat little program that pushes the crappy hardware to its limits by having more than 4 blocks on the screen at once. When I play em I think wow, the code must be pretty tight, but theres not enough gameplay to get me into the game.

      The revolutions controller is supposed to be more accessable, but they've said it won't limit developers or stop ports from other systems, so I think your hopes are doomed.

    3. Re:The sad thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I have a videogame collection with close to 1000 original game carts and systems as well as thousands more in emulation... Music has been turned artificial, movies have followed suit, I guess games are next.

      So, that emulation CD of yours containing "Chubby Cherub" and "Gilligan's Island" helps "keep it real"? Come on, admit it. You're one of those people that downloaded every SEGA/NES/ATARI ROM (s)he could find "just to have them", with no attempt at filtering out the quality stuff from the crap.

      You can't possibly be serious in insisting that there are "thousands" of games that are of such high quality to merit repeated emulation.

    4. Re:The sad thing is... by p3d0 · · Score: 1
      Ask a teenager to hum or whistle their favorite song... they can't do it because there is nothing but a catchy hook, it's empty.
      Huh??

      Have you actually tried this experiment?

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    5. Re:The sad thing is... by imsabbel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well. I dont know what you are talking about.

      I downloaded some "all in one" rom package years ago, a few thousand nes roms. Sad thing was: 8 of 10 were crap.
      And only a few were those "gems" that make us believe back then everything was better.

      I dont think the great to crap ratio has dropped significantly the last 20 years...

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    6. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      I respect what your saying but it is not nostalgia clouding my vision. I have been a game reviewer for a number of years and am well aware of the current state and I'm also aware of the vast amounts of crap games from yester-year.

      My problem is that very few games have a designers heart and soul behind them because the costs today are very high, so companies go with the "safe" games. Katamari Damacy is probably the last game I've played that had that old feeling of a single vision being brought to life with simple controls and not based around the easy way out of violence. The costs are going to be going up exponentially with the next gen of Sony and MS further ensuring only big name developers and franchise/licensed titles get made.

      The thing is the controls are "simple" to you and me because we've evolved with them and live them... not everyone is like that. Give your wife/girlfriend the choice to use a GB/GBA/NES or a Dualshock 2/Xbox/GC controller and she will go with the one that is less intimidating every time unless she is a gamer too. This holds true for most non-gamers. Three directional controls on one gamepad puts off a lot of people as it is confusing when you only have two hands, let alone the myriad buttons added in.

      The fact is my mother can whoop ass on Warlords, or my father can put a hurtin on my Defender score... and they can play together and competitively with myself and a 8-9 year-old nephew. That isn't happening with Halo, or most any other game out today. This is a large market, much bigger than us "hardcore" gamers will ever be and it is time to get back to basics and appeal to the entire spectrum, not just one small subset.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    7. Re:The sad thing is... by abb3w · · Score: 1
      Ask a teenager to hum or whistle their favorite song...

      My teenaged niece's favorite song for the last couple of years has been Annie Lennox's "Into The West", from the ROTK soundtrack (IE: since it came out). Go on-- try and hum it. I dare you.

      --
      //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
    8. Re:The sad thing is... by rihjol · · Score: 1

      I'll agree with one of the other commenters. Sure, there's a lot of crap out there, but there are some gems too. And that's just about how it's always been. Sometimes there are brief waves where lots of good stuff makes it to the popular front, but by and large, by nature, pop culture is cookie cutter fad stuff.

      But there are a lot of good musicians out there in all genres, but you gotta do a little work sometimes, or at least look somewhere other than corporate radio. Smaller labels like Desoto, SST, IRS, Epitaph have been punching out a lot of good stuff over the years. I've found a lot of really good local music that I'd never hear on the radio, but I can go see at a bar on a given weekend. It just takes a little exploring to find good stuff sometimes.

      Same with movies (and I've seen a lot of really good import stuff lately). You might not find something great at Muvico or Regal or whatever, but check smaller theatres or rentals, and you can find stuff.

      Games are a little tricky right now because it's hard to get one made without a humongous budget, so the rule is for mass appeal to recoup expenses. But we still see innovative games coming out (I'll use everyone's favorite example, Katamari Damacy). And it wasn't many years ago that some of my favorite games were made (i.e., Fallout series, etc.).

      So sure, there's a lot of crap out there, but don't damn everything from this generation. There's plenty of good stuff to go around, just take the time to find it.

      --
      I like bread.
    9. Re:The sad thing is... by andr0meda · · Score: 1


      I`m currently leaving my good and dandy job at a rather large game development studio, to set out and build innovative games like you`ve described, get a little fame hopefully, and maybe, just maybe, build a company out of it.. You do realise that a lot of great simple games today run right here on the web, in a browsers, and are payed for by advertisement campaigns? They got simple control, easy to play, and provide tons of wacky (though rather shortlived, I`ll give you that) fun.

      The reason why I quit is because thinking in big companies like the one I worked for is extremely backwards, and ego`s are blocking my sight everywhere. When they start a new game, everybody starts thinking about content first. How many animators, how many texture artists, how many modellers, how many leveldesigners.. fuck that! Those are great people and artists, and I am madly excited with what they can do, but when it comes to playing a game, icontent is completely secondary! The idea should come first. And honestly, the last game project I have been involved in.. it completely lacks that good idea. It`s just another one of these so so game designs that happens to have a bit of novelty in it completely unrelated to the gameplay, and for the rest of it, it talks and talks about these several different worlds and experiences and funny characters and weird magic spells blah blah blah blah.. I won`t tell you what game it is but if you do a little research you should be able to make something out of it..

      --
      With great power comes great electricity bills.
    10. Re:The sad thing is... by Jetekus · · Score: 1

      I agree to an extent, but you are guilty of generalising just a tad.

      There are great games out there. Sure, there are some which are only slightly more sophisticated than interactive movies, but there are some that are truly great. I was playing some Timesplitters: Future Perfect today, and I think that's an example of a new, slick game that still holds true to the old games you describe. There are plenty of tongue-in-cheek moments, the cut-scenes are short and hilarious and the characters are memorable. And that's in a FPS.

      Same with music and movies. Sure, MTV churns out the same crap as usual, but we're in the digital age! It's easier than ever to find cool, weird indie bands from places you've never been on the other side of the world. And there are still meaningful movies coming out. I thought Closer was great, and that was 2005 (at least in the UK).

      So you can complain, but it's easier to hunt out a good example in whatever field of entertainment it is, and to vote with your wallet. There's a Katamari sequel the works, so you can be sure it works at least some of the time.

    11. Re:The sad thing is... by Egonis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The strange thing about memory is that we generally remember really good, or really bad.

      The best times in gaming as a child were when I had my Atari 2600, and then when I had my Sega Master System.

      Most of the games for both platforms SUCKED! But the good ones were very very good. Same goes for NES, there were alot of bad titles, but the good ones were really really good.

      Why would I play a game I don't like? I had like 60 cartridges for my Atari, and played *maybe* 6 of them... (Pitfall, Pitfall 2, Taz, Tapper, and Superman)

      The rest of the games blew! Yes, they were alot like moving a large green square around the screen (Adventure, for example)... as a small child, I had an imagination, which helped... but they still had no imagination in graphics with only a few exceptions in titles.

    12. Re:The sad thing is... by TobyWong · · Score: 1

      There is a big difference between "good controls" and "simple controls". Good controls are intuitive, responsive, and well laid out. Simple controls are what you would find on a pac man machine.

      I have no interest in going back to the days of simple controls but I do recognize the importance of good controls. But like I said in my earlier post, good modern games also have good controls. If a small child can learn the controls to a game in minutes, you can't tell me they are too complex for human consumption.

      --
      - Toby
    13. Re:The sad thing is... by pla · · Score: 1

      Ask a teenager to hum or whistle their favorite song

      Why bother asking? Just call them, and their cell ringtone will reveal the answer.

    14. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I too have actually WORKED in this industry, not just spouting off or waxing nostalgic. It is sad, the current state is not what it should be. I applaud your move and wish you the best of luck. I have a feeling a major change is going to come in gaming with this next generation of consoles.

      All of the people who claim I'm wrong or that there is such a bright future ahead will soon see how badly they are off the mark. With the Insane costs of developing for the 360 or the PS3 there will be little to no variety of games coming out and the amount of releases are going to be ultra-low. The costs of production coupled with the length of development and programming will badly stunt the number of games to be released over the consoles lifespan.

      The truth will become quite apparent in due time.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    15. Re:The sad thing is... by Manchot · · Score: 1

      Apparently, there's something very good/special about the Revolution's controller, but thanks to the NDAs that Nintendo has forced its developers to sign, we don't know what. For example, Peter Molyneux made the following comment a couple days ago: "There is a line at the end of the book 'Game Over' and it is, 'Never underestimate Nintendo.' That is all I can say about the controller."

    16. Re:The sad thing is... by LynchMan · · Score: 1

      Due to the amazing properties of nostalgia you just happen to forget all the crappy old games which were no fun, had bad controls, and were frustrating to play.

      Journey Escape anyone?

    17. Re:The sad thing is... by Darth+Liberus · · Score: 1
      People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society.

      Ask a teenager to hum or whistle their favorite song... they can't do it because there is nothing but a catchy hook, it's empty. Same thing with games, they have tons of flash and glitz but no soul and it isn't getting any better.

      "In my day, we had to walk fifty miles to school, uphill both ways, in the snow... and we liked it! It built character! Kids these days have no soul, I tell ya!"

      --
      Beauty is just a light switch away.
    18. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      OK then, have your parents play Halo if you have an Xbox or any other console FPS tonight and get back to me with how well and quickly they master the controls and how much fun they have.

      I'm serious. Give it a try. You will see the truth in my statement quite quickly.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    19. Re:The sad thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Did you have to walk 15 miles, in snow, uphill both ways to school when you were a kid?" Yes, I did. And we couldn't afford warm clothes, so I had to carry a sheep under each arm to keep me warm!

    20. Re:The sad thing is... by TobyWong · · Score: 1

      My parents would have a hard time with pac man so I don't see what that really proves. They don't have the hand-eye coordination for it.

      But I could take any random 5 year old and plop them in front of a modern FPS and they would take to it like a duck to water.

      --
      - Toby
    21. Re:The sad thing is... by slashdotnickname · · Score: 1

      People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society.

      This is a typical wrong conclusion people make when they try to compare the past with the present.

      The past as its share of fluff or "souless" garbage too, but only the more meaningful stuff tends to get remembered. This creates a perception that things are more different than they actually are.

      A more honest comparison would involve reasearch, i.e. actual work instead of the pompous morality preaching most people resort to.

    22. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      Yes, In fact I have. While your at it ask them who wrote the song and to name the members of the band. You will be met with nothing or the lead singer's name and a quick hum of maybe the hook.

      Seriously try it. I guarantee you may find one person who can do it. Now ask an older person the same question and the success rate will be much higher.

      Music is throw-away, movies are too, games basically are at that same level.

      Spare me the Indie rock argument. I'm talking about good mainstream music written and performed by the artist... I can think of a fair number but no where near what it used to be.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    23. Re:The sad thing is... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society."

      It's not that people dont have souls its that new ones are constantly born without an entertainment history, if you want to know why industries pump out the same stuff time and time again its because people dying and new people being born wipes the slate clean. They could be a game company that pumps out the same shit for decades and as long as newblood or blood that doesn't care or gets bored exists money will be made.

    24. Re:The sad thing is... by arkanes · · Score: 1

      My 5 year old can play World of Warcraft. I don't think I've ever hear anyone blathering about "intuitive" or "simple" controls who knew what the fuck they were talking about.

    25. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      If by "actual work" you mean 20+ years gaming and 4+ reviewing/playtesting, game design and programming then I guess I've done a little "work" in my day. I am quite aware of what I "preach" and have more research and backing than I care to even think about in some of these areas.

      What was the analogy to "American Idol" in previous history may I ask? Karaoke singers signed for millions to sing albums of pre-written material destined for the garbage can after a week or so. Sure there were crappy bands, crappy games, and crappy movies... but most of them were the result of trying something NEW or DIFFERENT, not the current trend of producing only what sells.

      Talk to a game developer today, ask them what the reality of the industry is then get back to me.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    26. Re:The sad thing is... by scotch · · Score: 1
      Music has been turned artificial, movies have followed suit, I guess games are next.

      Ahh, yes, I too pine for the days when music and movies grew on trees.

      How did you get so old so fast?

      --
      XML causes global warming.
    27. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      If you have a 5-year old who plays and understands WoW then you sir have the smartest child in the world, get the little fucker a membership to MENSA stat and on to some talk shows about freak children.

      Mining/Crafting, hundreds of skills/spells, PvE, PvP, Stats, UI, scripting, etc. yeah, sure.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    28. Re:The sad thing is... by cowscows · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a little more complicated than that, but also not as bad as you make it sound. As games have gone more mainstream, like other forms of media, a lot of them have started to pander to the widest possible audience, in order to make more money. The focus has often times gone to graphics, because they've been easy to improve, the results can be immediately understood, and it's easy to advertise that sort of thing in magazines and whatnot. Gameplay is a much more subjective thing. While everyone can appreciate the progress being made in graphics, an evolution of gameplay that you enjoy may seem like a step backwards to me. And either way, good luck writing a satisfactory explanation of it on the back of the retail box.

      But like the movie and music industries, while a lot of the big name stuff has "gone hollywood". there's still plenty of people out there doing it cause they love it. Economic forces have relegated these independent outfits more to computers than consoles, but they're still there. Just like there's plenty of weird, experimental, and crazy indie music, there's lots of indie games out there. Sure, a lot of it's crap, but one of the side effects of innovating is that plenty of what you come up with doesn't work. You're not going to find these sorts of games sitting on the shelves at CompUSA, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

      The mass market is always going to pander to a lower common denominator. That's almost what the definition of what mass market is. And that's fine, because plenty of people want fluff. Occasionally I want fluff too, real life offers me plenty of substance somedays, and I generally try to view video games as a diversion, not another project for me to get emotionally involved in.

      There are plenty of good games being made. Some are simple, some are complex. Some are evolutionary, some are revolutionary. Some will appeal to only a few, others will appeal to millions. If you can't find games that you like, either you're not looking very hard, or your expectations have somehow gotten horribly skewed.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    29. Re:The sad thing is... by Steve525 · · Score: 1

      I think the point of the parent post is that complicated controls/controllers are intimidating to people who don't play games regularly. You can make all the arguements you want about the talent of a 5 year old (Ok maybe it's someone else making the arguement), but you can't deny that easier to learn to use a controller that has one stick and two buttons, than a controller that has two sticks, a gamepad and 8 buttons. Sure you can make more complicated and interesting games with the more complicated controller, but a lot of people enjoy more simple games. (You could then make the arguement that you don't have to use all those buttons just because they are there, which I really can't argue with).

      In the end it's up to developers, and I don't think developers are going after the very casual gamer. Looking at myself, for example, I used to play games regularly. I was never a heavy gamer, but I would buy a few a year. Recently my life changed (had a child), and I have less free time. I still have some free time to play games, but I don't. Why? Because the games don't fit my schedule. Besides the fact that it takes too long to learn the game (because of the time it takes to figure out what all the buttons do), I can't get anywhere in the 20 minutes intervals I have for playing. Games seem to be such that if you don't have at least an hour to sit and play, you shouldn't bother. (The other problem is that I really don't want to ignore my wife to play, and there are few multiplayer games other than sports).

    30. Re:The sad thing is... by imsabbel · · Score: 2, Funny

      After giving up playing WoW, i can say that im quite sure he isnt the only 5year old playing it :D

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    31. Re:The sad thing is... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Remove your nostalgia-tinted goggles and view the world as it really is. Games are better than they have ever been, and they've been getting better every year. Even the most mass marketted and commercial game out there, Madden, is a hell of a lot more fun to play than any football game for the Atari was.

    32. Re:The sad thing is... by cowscows · · Score: 1

      It's only hard to get a game made for consoles without a huge budget. There are lots of people making innovative computer games and making them available for download. Granted, most of these games don't involve enormous virtual worlds created by dozens of artists, but that doesn't mean they're not still fun. I got as much fun out of Snood as I did out of Unreal Tournament 2004.

      The grandparent commenter seems to be longing for those simpler "one-trick" gameplay types. Shareware has never stopped trying to fill that niche, you don't even have to work all that hard to find it. It's easier to download stuff off the web than drive to GameStop anyways.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    33. Re:The sad thing is... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Oh cut the crap, windbag.

      Research would for example picking one platform and one release year, and compare the game releases and the total number and the ratio of games deemed "good" by your criteria.

      Just whining about how bad everything is _just_ reminds me of my pearent. Rock and Punk?! horrible! and the movies? They have people getting killed!!!11 what will be next?! games becoming a perversion where you fight monsters in dungeons?
      (you really sound like a granny, you know?)

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    34. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      And herein lies the flaw in your logic: The videogame does NOT pander to the lowest common denomenator. Right now games are targeted at a very specific narrow audience.

      This is the problem. And my point. The casual gamer, parent, girlfriend is put off by a dualshock, Xbox, GC controller. They are similarly not interested in an FPS, or anime inspired RPG... the average person enjoys quick, easy to play, fun GAMES.

      I use the example a lot, but it is fact. Last Christmas the number one selling "game" was the atari/retro controllers that plugged directly into your TV and contained 6-10 oldschool games. They outsold ALL game sales for the christmas season! So to all those who say that no one wants old games with "crappy" graphics and "simple" controls are full of shit. Us "hardcore" gamers like to think we are so big in number and that the world revolves around us... it does not. The actual big wide-spread audience is the average joe and his family. That is what original game consoles targeted and what they do not target today. This is the problem, the game industry is stuck in this narrow spectrum and can't seem to branch out.

      The Revolution I think may just manage to be the first to do this and if properly done the sales will be staggering and the face of gaming will begin to change away from immature sex/violence/drugs and into FUN GAMES.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    35. Re:The sad thing is... by TobyWong · · Score: 1

      And driving stick is intimidating to someone who drives an auto normally. Doesn't mean it's rocket science. With a very minor time investment you can pick it up and you're on your way.

      Similarly in video games once someone has developed some minor hand-eye coordination skills, they are well on their way to playing any number of games. Sure they won't be able to pop off Zangief's spinning pile driver every time but that is precisely what seperates the skilled gamers from the not-so-skilled.

      My gf if about as non-gamer as you can possibly get and she loves lumines on my PSP. The controls are well designed and simple so she was able to pick them up reasonably quickly. But the fact that she can't bust off some complicated special move in another game doesn't mean that game sucks, it means she isn't interested in investing the time into learning more complex controls because she really doesn't care that much for gaming.

      --
      - Toby
    36. Re:The sad thing is... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Grandpa, get off the internet and back to your shuffleboard game.

      Holy crap, man, listen to yourself. How old are you? You sound like the old man on the sidewalk talking about how hamburgers were only a nickel in his day, and men were men and women were women, etc.

    37. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      Thank You. You continue to help make my point. Your girlfriend is not interested in doing the Uber-babality-fatality-of-hurting-painful-death involving three control sticks, your left nut, and a hoagie placed strategically to pull off... she like the simplicity of a simple game with simple controls and a simple interface... MY POINT EXACTLY!

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    38. Re:The sad thing is... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      I have a videogame collection with close to 1000 original game carts and systems as well as thousands more in emulation.

      You're absolutely right. That is sad. :-)

      People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society.

      Yeah, when I was a teenager, playing Pacman and Defender and Monsters and all those other new and shiny but ultimately simple, shallow and short-lived games, I was all about the soul and the substance, let me tell you.

      By the way, Mr Nostalgia, when you have a moment, try to reconcile this:

      they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society.

      with this:

      close to 1000 original game carts and systems as well as thousands more in emulation

      Hmm... o_O

    39. Re:The sad thing is... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      You're joking right? FPS have the most convoluted controls in the world. Three hundred keys, seven button mouse, eight thousand different things to do. They're the antithesis of playability. And the elitist pricks that play them whine about playing them on a console because the controller only has a dozen buttons.

      I don't think people who play FPS actually like games, they just like configuring and memorising buttons.

    40. Re:The sad thing is... by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      You should try any game from the Trackmania series. The physics is a little over the top but it is a very fun game (partly due to the physics).

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
    41. Re:The sad thing is... by DrKarl · · Score: 1
    42. Re:The sad thing is... by carrierbagman · · Score: 1

      You've got half a point I suppose. FPS players may well be male PC folk who like to brag about their 3d Mark scores and NEED the latest stupidly fast nvidia/ATI card just so they can run the latest game at a stupidly high resolution that their monitors can't even handle BUT ... controlling an FPS game on console *IS* horrible if you are used to playing this sort of game with a mouse and a keyboard. You need 5 keys (WASD, space) + the mouse and that's about it. Not really any worse than the 8 actions of the D-Pad, the two analogue joysticks, the four buttons and the four shoulder pads that you might need to master on say a PS2 controller. The main difference being that using the mouse is much more fluid than some stiff joystick.

    43. Re:The sad thing is... by merreborn · · Score: 1

      I could do two of 'em for ya, if only I could whistle at 270 bpm. God damn, does Mark Morton just tear up the bridge in Lamb of God's Vigil. And it's pretty hard to mimic King and Haneman's thrashing in "Raining Blood" by whistling. You're right about a lot of mainstream music though -- all the Kelly Clarksons, Bowling for Soups, and whoever else are producing stuff that no one will care about in a decade. But pop music isn't new -- I mean, come on. Your generation gave us crap like YMCA, Video Killed the Radio Star, and the disco version of the Star Wars theme. And honestly, how many of the thousands of games from that same era really stand up to the test of time? Dozens, certainly. And I can name dozens of modern games that are just as fun to play (Diablo, Warcraft, Quake, GTA, The Sims, Everquest). But in both 2005 and 1975, 90% of everything (games and music alike) is, and was, crap!

    44. Re:The sad thing is... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "I have a videogame collection with close to 1000 original game carts and systems as well as thousands more in emulation. When younger kids/relatives come over they don't even know how to USE a NES/SNES let alone an Atari or the likes, but once I brief them they all love them. TAZ for Atari 2600 is one game that holds up so well it is amazing, or Warlords."

      I agree. Warlords is still awesome. 4 player action. Simple, yet totally effective.

      Which makes me kind of laugh. Baer's games lacked a lot of that fun factor. He didn't even get it right with his version of Pong. Its kind of like the Windows GUI compared to Apple's, except if only Windows truly came first leaving Apple to get it right thereafter.

      Atari Inc.'s games - with the exception of that dire 1982 year with "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and "E.T" - were fun. The arcade Atari Games Corp. never let up. Their arcade games were unique, creative, and fun up until (arguably) the era of Street Fighter2 wiping everything else out of the arcades. The fighting games chased away all but the diehards and subsequently outside of Japan, the arcades died.

      Maybe Bushnell can bring that feeling back with his uWink properties. I wish him the best of luck...

      Long live Atari and King Pong... :)

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    45. Re:The sad thing is... by ThJ · · Score: 1

      Sure. No Idol. But plenty of hollowness. The music business has been all about money since it started. They'd sell piano rolls of anglified "jazz" in the earlt 1900s. Fake, but pleased the crowds. I have heard a story about Elvis buying all his songs from a slave for mere cents. The Nashville sound was created and catered for everyone who didn't like rock & roll. Artists have been picking songs out of directories for decades. The record companies buy song ideas from anonymous songwriters. The artist gets offered a list and gets to listen to demos, and then picks a song. A producer then takes care of the backing track and polishes everything. Music has been -manufactured- this way since the middle of the last century. The old days -weren't- better.

    46. Re:The sad thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall having a Fairchild Entertainment system. Loved it. Could not understand how Atari kicked it's ass so hard that they went out of business. Pong, Tank, coloring (manual and autodraw), other stuff. *sniff* Good times.

    47. Re:The sad thing is... by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      The "roots" of gaming were FUN games, easy play, and great simple control. Gaming really needs to get back to its roots and stop trying to be the next multi-billion hollywood-like crap industry.

      Such games still exist, although they have largely migrated to hand-helds. Check out Kirby Canvas Curse on the Nintendo DS, for example--a game that combines the simplicity of classic arcade games (simple control by drawing and tapping with a stylus) with modern technology (dual screens, touch sensitive screen).

      Or Nanostray, also on the DS -- a classic vertical scrolling shooter with graphics on a level with classic quarter munchers.

      Or any of the Nintendo GBA Metroid and Castlevania games.

      Or any one of the Metal Slug games, available for PS2, XBox, and GBA. Classic side-scrolling shooter with brilliant animation.

      Or Katmari on PS, as simple as any classic game, but taking advantage of modern 3D graphics to provide a game mechanic that would have been impossible in the classic era.

      I'm not even convinced that top-notch simple games are any more rare than they ever were. Rather, the market has expanded to support other tastes as well. Yes, the simple, easy-to-pick-up games are great, but it is not the only way to have fun. Today, there are video games for the sort of people who, back in "the day" would have been playing complex board games with lots of dice, cards, and tokens, and a rule book a quarter-inch thick.

    48. Re:The sad thing is... by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Agreed, GP poster is wrong, it's not the number of buttons that matter, it's the lack of a mouse. The low resolution would be my second complaint, especially on games with perfectly-accurate, non-zoomable long-range weapons like UT (shock rifle).

      I rarely use more buttons on a PC FPS than there are on a modern gamepad. The only major exception I can think of would be the Mechwarrior series, in which one must use a ridiculous number of controls to have any chance at all of winning.

    49. Re:The sad thing is... by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Well, you have to question how well thought-out a game is if you need a massive resolution and need to aim the weapons manually.

    50. Re:The sad thing is... by lgw · · Score: 0, Troll

      A *real* first person shooter has a mouse, plus the keys W A S D and whatever you jump with. Maybe a "use" key if you want to get tricky. A really sophisticated FPS might add a "duck" key.

      If the controls are more complicated, the game is probably crap.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    51. Re:The sad thing is... by andr0meda · · Score: 1


      Well, developing for the 360 should actually be even easier than it was even for the xbox, if Carmack should be believed. The PS3 looks like an even more insane piece of hardware to work with, but it should run a VM so that should take away some of the headache.

      You`re right on content production and development costs. Disregarding the example of Ubisoft, publisher / studios that sell games based on a license seem to have a surer bet than those who try something innovative - notable exceptions like Katamari not withstanding - which is what is killing this industry. Infogrames should have been dead 3 times by now, but somehow it manages to make a living on bad games with great names and a lot of that cash spending magazine bribery. And to stay alive, they buy up even more studios, consolidate the IP rights, cash in on crappy games with rediculous budgets, and another series of closures of once famous studios is a fact. But it`s something that seems to work so far..

      I hope that standup acts of games like Katamari, and the whole Japanese culture of producing shitloads of funny crap instead of big megalomaniac projects, will slowly work it`s way up and eventually compete with the 'real' game development studios, putting 'fun' back on the shelves next to 'content'.

      Did you know that SonicTeam`s individual revenue (revenue divided by staff number) is like 400 times bigger than SquareEnyx`s, even though Final Fantasy is arguably one of the greatest series in history? The problem is FF takes 2000+ of staff, where a new Sonic adventure takes 36 or so.. In the end, the risks for smaller teams are always going to be smaller than the risks for studios with batches of keyboard slaves. Small growth is key to success.

      --
      With great power comes great electricity bills.
    52. Re:The sad thing is... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Nah, there's a difference between playing it and playing it well. I've seen an 8 year old enjoy the heck out of Everquest, and eventually become pretty good at some aspects. For a game with stats he'd need some help to spend them, but mostly these games are just "roam around and whack on stuff" and that comes naturally! Still, I was amazed how good he was at crafting, trading, and playing in a team without pissing people off.

      Come to think of it, that last bit is the only skill you *really* need for any MMORPG.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    53. Re:The sad thing is... by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I didn't say the lowest common denominator, I said a lower one. There is a difference. And I wasn't specifically talking about the level of "controller savvy" possessed by the gamer, but rather their expectations. The lower level that we're seeing is one of clones and so called "safe bets"; things that strongly resemble what's come before it, so that buyers can compare with their previous experiences. They can look at images on a website and say, "oh yeah, I've played this sort of game before, it was pretty neat. And this one has better graphics and more levels. Cool." It doesn't require a big leap of faith to part with your money. If you liked FFVI, you can be pretty sure you'll find more of what you enjoyed in FFVII.

      And well, No one wants "crappy" graphics, sorry. Even if they aren't the most important thing, it's nice for things to look nice, even if it's more stylized than realistic. And I'm not entirely sure that the casual gamer market can't handle anything more complicated than Tetris. The trick is the design a good learning curve, one that's fun the whole way. Nintendo is really good at that. Which is why I hope you're right about the Revolution. I'm a big fan of Nintendo, and have faith in them to continue to make some fun games. Just like they do now.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    54. Re:The sad thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, don't start on the music front. Music turned artificial? Electronic/Electro-acoustic music has been around since the early 60s. Its time for you to open your eyes my friend.

    55. Re:The sad thing is... by rihjol · · Score: 1

      Agreed. All I need to do is look at my stats for FreeCell to see where I've spent stupid amounts of time =).

      That, and I loved that crazy Every Extend game that was out there a while back.

      Delta Yowai!

      --
      I like bread.
    56. Re:The sad thing is... by humblecoder · · Score: 1

      I think the nature of the game industry has changed to a certain extent. Back in the day, games could be produced on a small budget, usually by one or two individuals doing everything from end to end. Game companies could take more "risks" and so there were a lot of original games. That's not to say that all of these original games were GOOD, just that there was a lot more freedom to experience with new and different concepts.

      Fast forward to today... creating a typical game requires a much bigger budget and a lot more people. You have the programmers, level designers, artists, voice-over talent, composers, testers, tech writers, etc, etc. The big game companies that dominate the market can't afford to flush money down the toilet, so the games have to make money. That means playing it safe with proven concepts. EA, for instance, seems to survive by milking its proven franchises, which is safe from a sales standpoint, but it hardly results in original games.

      Of course original doesnt make a game "good" and unoriginal doesnt make a game "bad", and I agree that there were A LOT of bad games in the Atari era. However, I think there was more experimentation in mainstream gaming back in the 80's, so that may be why the original poster finds that those games have more soul.

      Personally, I find that today's games are mostly "variations on a theme", so to speak. There are maybe about a dozen or so basic "themes" which most games fall into, and there may be one or two tweaks to a game that differentiates a game within a theme. Thats not to say that these are BAD games because they are just variations on a theme, but they even at their best, they still feel like something that you've seen before.

      During the 80's, you still had your share of knockoffs, but it seems like there were good games that defined their own category. I think it is that uniqueness that even the good games of today lack.

    57. Re:The sad thing is... by TobyWong · · Score: 1

      Not really, she is not a gamer nor will she ever be. She would be the wrong person to try to design a game for because she would never spend a dime on gaming. The only reason she plays lumines is because I own it + the PSP so it's just lying there and it's pretty easy to pick up.

      I though of another counter example to your argument though... Do you remember when Street Fighter hit arcades? Holy shit 6 buttons! That's crazy! How can you possibly use 6 buttons??? It was unprecedented. Yet SF2 stands as one of the greatest games ever made. Not only that but the SF2 controls were tight, precise, and just damn *good*. Which brings this discussion full circle, because here is a great example of really good controls that are not necessarily simple.

      --
      - Toby
    58. Re:The sad thing is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Super Tecmo Bowl > anything since, though.

    59. Re:The sad thing is... by Fallingcow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Quite well-thought-out, if the game is developed for a system that has a massive resolution and an input device that makes the manual aiming of weapons fairly intuitive and precise.

      You have to aim manually, in Contra, too--just not in the same way.

      The 3D game world is what most often turns off older or less-experienced gamers, in my experience. Usually (NOT always) these are the same people who can't figure out the concept of a heirarchical file structure, either. This isn't becuase these people are dumb (most of the time), but rather because they didn't grow up with computers. They're bad at (and/or don't like) 3D games for much the same reason; they aren't used to thinking in that way.

      The controls have very little to do with it.

    60. Re:The sad thing is... by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      Hey dickhead, I'm 25... I'm far from a grandparent. I also have been in this business for some time and cut my teeth programming for the NES so piss off, what high-and mighty credentials do you have going for you besides virgin "pearent's" (It's spelled parents BTW) basement /. dweller?

      I have done market research on a number of game titles as well as peripherals and gamepak's. I have followed stats and sales numbers for over 4 years as part of my job. I have also done usability studies. Don't fuckin tell me what research is or is not, you have no clue.

      I never said everything was bad, simply that gamers are up for a big disappointment with the next gen round of consoles as the releases will be far and few between and becom emore complex. There is a large untapped audience out there clamoring for simple, fun games. They barely exist anymore. Everything now is either niche or complex, without much in between.

      I like Rock, I like Punk, I like movies, I like games, just not the cookie cutter crap of each area. I prefer NoFX to mall punk radio B.S. I like deeper movies like Darren Aranofsky's work, I also like well designed games that are FUN like Mario Party, Puyo Pop, Katamari Damacy, Guild Wars, etc.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
    61. Re:The sad thing is... by default+luser · · Score: 1

      (arguably) the era of Street Fighter2 wiping everything else out of the arcades. The fighting games chased away all but the diehards and subsequently outside of Japan, the arcades died.

      I'll argue that.

      Arcades were already dying in the US during the 1980s due to forces completely beyond their control. Arcades were already slated to die for the same reason bowling alleys, shopping malls and downtown areas have seen declines (just to name a few). Entertainment, shopping, you name it...it has call become detached and depersonalized.

      Of course, the gaming industry didn't help themselves. The console wars of the 1970s started the wave: you may not think the Atari VCS has good graphics, but on release in 1977 they were as good as ANY arcade machine. Why the hell would people DRIVE to an arcade when they could have the arcade at home? The video game market crash of 1984 didn't help things, and the renewed console wars of the late 80s sealed the deal.

      The fighting game was a last gasp to make gaming in the arcades "social" again, by adding so much complexity to a game and practically forcing people to face off rather than settle for the "AI". It worked for awhile, with dozens of knockoffs, each with new killer combos to learn. However, it was not enough to save the industry in America...there are still "arcades" here in the US, but they are usually a secondary part of another business.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  8. Know my roots? by zaren · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can still vividly recall playing Pac-Man and Scramble at the local roller rinks, and Donkey Kong and Defender at the front entrance of the local grocery store. I would scrape together all the change I could find just on the off chance my parents would let me hit the arcade at the mall, just to take a whack at Tempest or Spy Hunter.

    Space Invaders, Lunar Lander, Omega Race... Rush N' Attack, Yie Ar Kung-Fu, P.O.W.... Ladybug, Tapper, Mappy... yeah, I know my roots.

    And thanks to the joys of emulators, I can go back to my roots any time I want! :D

    --
    Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
    1. Re:Know my roots? by MyDixieWrecked · · Score: 1

      I'm trying to get back to my roots. I'm planning on building one of these .

      I've been designing the software for it, and although I haven't had time to work on it for about a week, it's coming along nicely.

      Shameless plug: AFX

      I just need to think of a better way of describing what it is in the project summary.

      --



      ...spike
      Ewwwwww, coconut...
    2. Re:Know my roots? by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Holy crap, joystick controlled? I've been looking for something *exactly* like this for SO long!

      Too bad XMMS is the only media player I know of that allows joystick input... my poor GXine might have to go bye-bye. XMMS video playback blows. Oh, well.

      Must try to get this working with my Playstation->USB adapters and my Playstation 2 gamepads... Mmm, analog stick navigation. *drools*

    3. Re:Know my roots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video games are *the* reason I learned anything about computers, at least at first. I still have an Aladin's Castle token from the first arcade I ever played in, in 1977.

      My first PC was a Compaq Deskpro 8086, with a couple of classic games. One was the original text-only Zork. Graphics? Zero (draw your own map!). Gameplay? 10+. Kill Troll With Sword!

      For actual video games on this ancient machine, we had a BASIC program named LEM (aka Lunar Lander). The thing to do was go into the code and find the fuel quantity, and add a little bit more fuel than the game normally started you out with; otherwise, the only game I could play was "How big will this crater be?" I still have this PC and it still runs, by the way!

      Then there was Sopwith, a Defender-style WWI game with some seriously aggressive enemy planes. There was a nice bug: If you bombed the middle enemy base enough times, the enemy plane there would not be able to take off, and this was nice, becuase it was the only way to avoid being harassed constantly (each enemy plane had a territory).

      The BEST arcade I have ever been in was Ground Kontrol in Portland, Oregon. When I was there in 2000, they had some CLASSICS and some later machines as well. Everything from Pac-Man to Marble Madness. If you're ever in Portland, check them out.

    4. Re:Know my roots? by Orangedog_on_crack · · Score: 1
      Space Invaders, Lunar Lander, Omega Race... Rush N' Attack, Yie Ar Kung-Fu, P.O.W.... Ladybug, Tapper, Mappy... yeah, I know my roots.

      Sure, today's games are far more advanced than the standards we grew up with, both for the home box and the arcade. But for all the new games have...the z-axis, texture-mapped razamataz with surround sound, they lack something that those old games had in spades...a soul.

  9. Another Resource by prairieson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And if you're in Chicago, the Museum of Science and Industry has a great exhibit for a couple more weeks, "Game On". It's a hands-on exhibit and historical/cultural look at video games. From the Museum's website...

    "Forty years ago, video games didn't exist. The Nintendo Company made playing cards, Sony made black and white televisions and Sega imported instant photo booths. Families played games by rolling dice or dealing cards."

    Cool Exhibit!

    --
    Quomodo cogis comas tuas sic videri?
    1. Re:Another Resource by Hangin10 · · Score: 1

      I saw a PDP-11 there, also crashed some other
      game to the point of getting to mess with a
      Z80 debugger/assembler of some sort.

      Was fun.

    2. Re:Another Resource by zipzap54 · · Score: 1

      I use a lot of Hair Gel and the occasional curling Iron... Faciem durum cacantis habes Commodum habitus es!!!

      --
      "All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors."
  10. spacewar at Sanders by John_Sauter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I brought Steve Russell's Spacewar to Sanders in the early 1970s, and installed it on the PDP-1 in the basement. When Nintendo was contesting the Magnavox patents they couldn't find any evidence that Baer had seen or played Spacewar, but the possibility does exist, since they were in the same building at the same time. Does he say in his book whether or not he ever encountered Spacewar>
            John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

    1. Re:spacewar at Sanders by rolenta · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, Ralph never saw a working version of Spacewar (aside from an emulated one a few years ago). And if you know Ralph, he's not one to make up stories. By the way, your book will be shipped on Thursday :)

    2. Re:spacewar at Sanders by John_Sauter · · Score: 1
      I regret that I do not know Ralph. As best I can remember, I never met him, and I am sure that if I had met him, I would have showed him Spacewar.

      I remain very interested in early video games, hence my purchase of the book. Congratulations on finding a good way to let potential customers know about it.
              John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

    3. Re:spacewar at Sanders by Rog7 · · Score: 1

      I did meet and interviewed Ralph Baer at the first ('99) Classic Gaming Expo. He was very well spoken and had a clairty of mind that I wish I had. He also seemed incredibly honest and humble about his achievements, which is more than I can say for some others I have met from the dawn of this industry.

      I'm certain that if he'd seen Spacewar he would have said so, rather than ever wait to be asked.

      Huge amount of respect for the man.

    4. Re:spacewar at Sanders by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      honest and humble about his achievements

      Well, then he's obviously changed since you knew him. Allow me to summarize his book:

      Real videogames didn't exist before I invented them. Everyone else ripped me off. Every game today is derived form what I did. Worship me, your master.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  11. don't forget, you're old by frishack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sadly, it's not just modern youngsters who are unaware of their technological roots

    Um, he's only a teenager, those are his roots.

    1. Re:don't forget, you're old by tont0r · · Score: 1

      maybe you arent aware that a "teenager" now a days started with propbably ps2. if they had started before the teen days, they might have had a psx. and if they had a psx, they would have the latest version (psx came out 9-10 years ago. i got one the day it came out as a freshman in highschool :( ).and id be impressed if he ever played an original nintendo.

    2. Re:don't forget, you're old by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1

      He's a member of the human race, isn't he? His tech roots are everyones tech roots - the early developments in the 50s and 60s, not to mention Atari etc. which as everyone knows predated Nintendo.

    3. Re:don't forget, you're old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sad thing is, if he's more than 15ish it's not really his roots. Super nintendo is more likely to be a current teenagers roots. You never hear them wax nostalgic about how sweet marble madness looked when it came out, they are usually talking about "wow my first rpg was Chrono Trigger".

    4. Re:don't forget, you're old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. I'm 19 and played the NES in 1988-89 and got my own in 1990.

    5. Re:don't forget, you're old by teknomage1 · · Score: 1

      I'm only twenty and every gamer I know started off playing their older sibling's NES.

      --
      Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
    6. Re:don't forget, you're old by ninjakoala · · Score: 1

      Actually Nintendo has been making games since 1889. Just not the electronic kind.

      --
      Against the grain
    7. Re:don't forget, you're old by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Sad thing is, if he's more than 15ish it's not really his roots. Super nintendo is more likely to be a current teenagers roots. You never hear them wax nostalgic about how sweet marble madness looked when it came out, they are usually talking about "wow my first rpg was Chrono Trigger".

      Not everyone got a Super Nintendo right away in 1991 either. A lot of kids, especially younger kids, likely got the NES as a hand-me-down back in the 1990's. Especially if they were dependent on Mom & Dad to buy them the latest and greatest. I know several young kids today that are getting their start on old systems like the PSX, SNES, and N64 as their parents don't want to be out too much money if their kid ends up busting it.

    8. Re:don't forget, you're old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll submit myself as an example of the latter. My first videogames were actually Castle and SpaceWar, which I attempted to play at age 3. I'm now 19. I never owned a NES, but frequented a friend's house to play on one, as I did with another friend's Atari. The first console I owned was a SNES (a few years after it was released.) So no, I didn't get to play a lot of the early video games as they were brand-spanking new, but I still experienced several of them, either through an emulator or on their original platform. Hell, I had to do part of the code for Hunt the Wumpus as a programming assignment for school. We haven't all been spoiled by pretty graphics and poor gameplay.

    9. Re:don't forget, you're old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullcrap. I'm 18 and I started out on an NES. It was my babysitter back when I was 4 or 5. Since then I've played on the SNES, farted around a bit with an Atari and darn near lived for Sonic 1 on the Genesis. When I was younger the highlight of every trip to the local taco joint was a round of Galaga. Anybody nerdy enough to be caught wear a "roots" shirt like that has probably been gaming for long enough to have used a Nintendo controller. Dang, but those corners really start to cut into chubby little palms after a while...

  12. I hate to be picky.. by onion2k · · Score: 1

    Last year, at the PhillyClassic videogame event, I noticed a teenager wearing an ironic t-shirt. His shirt showed an original Nintendo controller and said 'Know your roots.'

    I hate to be picky*, but there's nothing wrong with that T-Shirt at all. It is not, as the reviewer implies, suggesting video games started with Nintendo, merely that the wearer's experience of video games started with the NES. Of course, without knowing the person wearing it there's no way to know if it's accurate or not, but you can't assume it isn't simply because it's a NES pad on the front.

    * Actually I love being picky. Can't smoke, can't drink, drugs are out, what's left if I can't pick holes in topics on the net?

    1. Re:I hate to be picky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't smoke, can't drink, drugs are out, what's left if I can't pick holes in topics on the net?

      And you can't do any of these things for what reason ? I never understood why people think that not smoking, drinking or doing drugs is going to make them live any longer. You know that you could get hit by a bus today, then what good did it do ya.

      Personally I smoke, drink, I don't do drugs because I wanted a job besides pumping gas.

      If smoking kills me... so what, dinking... who cares. You only get one time to go around this place, might as well do all you can.

    2. Re:I hate to be picky.. by prgrmr · · Score: 1

      I'm 40. I don't smoke and therefore have a potential life-span about 10 years longer than a someone else my age who smokes. And not only do I have the potential to live longer, the 5-10 years preceeding that additional time will very most likely be more healthy, useful, and enjoyable years for me than for my smoking counterpart as I won't have to contend with lung cancer, or emphasemia or any other smoking-related illness.

      I'm might be around long enough to not only see and know my grandchildren, but potentially my great-grandchildren as well.

      Of course I've been known to have the occasional drink or two, so it's not like I don't have a potential life-ending gotcha to avoid either...

    3. Re:I hate to be picky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If smoking kills me... so what,

      If you want to send all your money to evil tobacco companies that's your right. Does smoking even feel good anymore? Or does it just feel bad to try to quit? Do you really think you are cooler looking? See how you look in 20 years.

    4. Re:I hate to be picky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * Actually I love being picky. Can't smoke, can't drink, drugs are out, what's left if I can't pick holes in topics on the net?

      hmmm, you must be the infamous slashdot bot that posts stories...and a good one - you have circumvented the CAPTCHA too....cool!

    5. Re:I hate to be picky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whatchu talkin' bout fool?

      drugs are freakin' awesome.

    6. Re:I hate to be picky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I smoke, drink, I don't do drugs because I wanted a job besides pumping gas.

      Sounds like you do nicotine and alcohol. Probably a pretty good bet that you use caffiene too. You meant to say you don't do illegal drugs.

  13. Equally Saddening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Equally saddening is how few so-called "music lovers" know their real music roots and theory. Even the older ones are guilty of this.

  14. Another good read... by Commander+Doofus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...is J. C. Herz's Joystick Nation. It was published in 1997 so is pretty dated by now but it's still a fun read about the history of video and arcade games.

    --
    Want to improve your life? This guy will show you how!
  15. Two essential websites by gosand · · Score: 5, Informative
    You need to visit these:

    www.klov.com

    www.vaps.org

    There is nothing like classic video games and pinballs. MAME is great, but still can't capture it completely. I am glad I got to grow up during the great era of arcades.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:Two essential websites by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There's another nice site I found here to go along with your two.

      And damn straight about growing up during the era of arcades. It's damn near impossible to explain to the younger video game crowd the sheer wonder we felt as these now technologically antiquated games came out back when they were brand new.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    2. Re:Two essential websites by Orangedog_on_crack · · Score: 1
      There is nothing like classic video games and pinballs. MAME is great, but still can't capture it completely. I am glad I got to grow up during the great era of arcades.

      I've owned several of the old games. I thought I was really into the nostalgia until I met someone who used to put oragano on top of the transformer inside his Defender cabinet so it would smell more like the pizza shop he learned to play the game at when he was a kid.

    3. Re:Two essential websites by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1
      There is nothing like classic video games and pinballs. MAME is great, but still can't capture it completely.

      I don't know... Building your own arcade cabinet with a machine running MAME inside gets pretty close. The keyboard or a gamepad doesn't compare to a real arcade joystick.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  16. games and the youth by gaijin99 · · Score: 1, Insightful
    "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."


    Well, if we believe what the police in Utah say, that's what a rave is... Especially the munching pills part.
    --
    "Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
    1. Re:games and the youth by lahvak · · Score: 1

      Well, if we believe what the police in Utah31 say, that's what a rave is... Especially the munching pills part.


      Hm, there is a prior art

      --
      AccountKiller
    2. Re:games and the youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish that slashdot would accept a story on this issue. There isn't a politics category for nothing. This whole Utah rave fandango is already developing into a political issue.

    3. Re:games and the youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do believe that was the whole point of the joke... *sigh*

    4. Re:games and the youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this mean that our grandkids will be killing cops with crowbars but emphatically and carefully NOT having sex?

    5. Re:games and the youth by Evil+Grinn · · Score: 1

      "If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

      Well, if we believe what the police in Utah say, that's what a rave is... Especially the munching pills part


      Wasn't that the point of the joke?

      Of course the OP also deserves a whooping for using that quote without saying where it came from.

    6. Re:games and the youth by Suicyco · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Especially since its exactly what raves ARE. Especially the munching pills part.

  17. Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by The+Lost+Supertone · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously what theh heck is wrong with saying your roots are in Nintendo? What I would take this shirt to imply would be that Nintendo were the ones who inovated video games largely back in the early ninties and late eighties. They made gaming incredibly fun, and that's where video gaming really started to take off. Contrast the fun early nintendo and super nintendo games with the crap that Sony is pushing no where most games sell because of pixelated breasts, blood, and by playing to the lowest common denominator. It's one of the reasons I still have yet to own any Sony playstation product. And actually might never. Also one of the reasons I refuse to buy just about anything from Sony.

    1. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by tont0r · · Score: 1

      nintendo came out long before the current generation of teenagers were infact teenagers. shit, the original came out when i was roughly 6-7. maybe 8. im 24 now so that was a long ass time ago. there is a mighty good chance that teenagers today didnt not play too many nintendo games on the original nintendo.

    2. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by rihjol · · Score: 1

      I'll admit that there's a lot of stuff on consoles now that appeal to the base instincts of sex and violence, but there's enough other stuff out there to satisfy me.

      Most sports games aren't over-the-top on violence, and really do focus on the game itself. I still enjoy playing SSX3 and NCAA football on occasion. There are plenty of all-ages platformer/adventurer games that don't go for any of that indulgent stuff too.

      But I do have the Megaman Collection and love going back to play 2, which for all the sequels, I think is still the best.

      --
      I like bread.
    3. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by Steve525 · · Score: 1

      They made gaming incredibly fun, and that's where video gaming really started to take off.

      You've got to be kidding me. Not to demean Nintendo's achievements during their heyday, but video gaming had taken off before them. Arcade games had their heyday in the early 80's. You might say that Nintendo caused home video gaming to take off, but the Atari VCS was pretty popular back in the day. What Nintendo really did was resurrect an industry that people thought had died - still an impressive acheivement. They did this as much through a better business model (getting a cut of every piece of software) as techical innovation.

      I think why people don't like the T-shirt is that it says 'know "your" roots.' My roots (and, in fact, the roots of the industry as a whole) are earlier than Nintendo.

    4. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is wrong and you are a second tier human being.

    5. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by dlZ · · Score: 1

      I was 6 when my family bought a NES in 1985. Bought it for Christmas, I turned 7 less then a month after they gave it to me. It's been a long time. Today's teenagers probably feel the same way about the NES as I do about Pong. I remember Pong, but it was before my time and I thought it was so dated, but my first real memories of games are the C64 and our Atari 2600 followed pretty quickly by a NES.

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    6. Re:Nintendo Is/Are My Roots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > They made gaming incredibly fun, and that's where video gaming really started to take off

      Yeah, coz that whole business with Atari was 'nuttin, really. Or something.

  18. The Olden Days by gkozlyk · · Score: 0

    I miss the days when i could play C64, Atari, Coleco and Intellivision until i had square eyes. Not a care in the world, as i was in the public school system.

    --
    1. Re:The Olden Days by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 2, Funny

      I miss the days when i could play C64, Atari, Coleco and Intellivision until i had square eyes. Not a care in the world, as i was in the public school system.

      Many of those kids, now grown adults, are still in the public school system.

  19. what would be the point of knowing that? by js3 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    videogame roots belong in a musuem

    --
    did you forget to take your meds?
  20. Dunno... by Necromancyr · · Score: 1

    I can't remember where I got it from (an online place) but I have a Roots shirt with an Atari controller on it. Bit better then the NES one and I'm fairly certain the NES one was a copy of the Atari shirt (I saw the NES one a few months after seeing the Atari one, but have never seen the atari shirt in stores.)

  21. The Book is Wrong! by Evil+W1zard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Jeez everyone knows that video games were invented by Al Gore!

    Seriously though this story makes me think back on how much fun I used to have playing River Raid and PitFall (damn those alligators!)

    --
    News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
    1. Re:The Book is Wrong! by AtariAmarok · · Score: 4, Funny

      Give the man some credit. It was dangerous work back then. I lost my arm playing the early version of Pac Man. We used real monsters back then.

      --
      Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  22. Spacewar! by pigiron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Spacewar not a "real" game? What a crock! Here is Spacewar running on a PDP-11 emulator in a Java applet: :-) http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/sp acewar/

    1. Re:Spacewar! by Megane · · Score: 1
      What Ralph Baer invented wasn't games that would play on a CRT, or even on a computer (all of his earlier games were built out of discrete electronics). What he invented was games that would play on a regular television set.

      Spacewar played on an oscilloscope, and to this day, very few households have oscilloscopes.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:Spacewar! by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      So what about the Vectrex? This was a home gaming console that sold for a reasonable amount of money in the early eighties that used a vector display. And yes, if you tap a Vectrex' PCB in the correct places you can play Minestorm on an o-scope.

      Baer says that only his games are valid "first games" because they were the first to utilize a regular television set. I call bullshit. Baer's notable work in no way invalidates the true videogames that came before his.

      Incidentally, I liked the look of vector games. I especially liked color vector games like Tac-Scan. Sega made a ton of good ones and so did Atari. I'd definitely be a novelty, but I'd love to see a vector game done with the computing power we have now. It seems that money was getting to be a real problem throwing polygons around back then.....

    3. Re:Spacewar! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And yes, if you tap a Vectrex' PCB in the correct places you can play Minestorm on an o-scope." -dmazwell

          I dont see how. I'm the proud owner of several Vec's and and have repaired a good many vector display's in my day (well, back in the day).

          Since code is written to "plot" a vector then how could a CRT display this? Thats the whole point of a vector display vs a CRT. One plot's the image in real time, while the other does it line by line. The ion gun on a vector display actually draws the vectors. The CRT builds an image, line by line and then starts all over again.

          I'm not saying your wrong. I'm asking how can you make code written to plot vectors translate to scan line images by just tapping into a PCB? I assume that the Vec (and arcade games of the day) used machine code. Was the hardware setup to translate the code in a way that converts it to vectors? If that was the case then I assume that if you tap the PCB before the signal is processed then the DAC will convert it to standard scan line (assuming the game code has no display code).

    4. Re:Spacewar! by Megane · · Score: 1
      So what about the Vectrex? This was a home gaming console that sold for a reasonable amount of money in the early eighties that used a vector display. And yes, if you tap a Vectrex' PCB in the correct places you can play Minestorm on an o-scope.

      1. They're still rare as hell, which doesn't invalidate any of my arguments.
      2. The Vectrex came quite late in the era, which also means nothing to the argument.
      3. Now you're just trolling. I never commented on the validity of old computer games like spacewar. I just said his important contribution was that he was the first to make games that worked with common raster television sets that people already had. No matter what you may think, this is an important development. This is what made them home video games, and more importantly, this is what made them commercially viable.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re:Spacewar! by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      The intro to this article says that Baer himself disparaged earlier works because they used o-scopes as a display. Not a troll. Chapter 1 of his new book damn near queers the whole deal.

      The only point I was trying to make was Baer seems to think that only home televisions are Right and Holy and that He was the Prophet. THAT is what I was calling BS on. Yes, Baer's invention of the home video game is significant; I wasn't disputing that. No, this invention did not give him the right to dis the giants whose shoulders he was standing on.

    6. Re:Spacewar! by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      I dont see how. I'm the proud owner of several Vec's and and have repaired a good many vector display's in my day (well, back in the day).

              Since code is written to "plot" a vector then how could a CRT display this? Thats the whole point of a vector display vs a CRT. One plot's the image in real time, while the other does it line by line. The ion gun on a vector display actually draws the vectors. The CRT builds an image, line by line and then starts all over again.


      An o-scope in XY mode is a vector display. It's been a looong time but I've even hard coded circuitry to draw vectors stored in SRAM. Google for lissajous patterns.

      An o-scope CRT doesn't work like the CRT in a raster monitor. Modern o-scopes may well sample waveforms and display on a scan-line CRT but the older ones worked just like Vectrex displays. In time base mode, an internal oscillator sweeps the beam horizontally and the input signal causes vertical deflection. Just the thing for viewing electrical waveforms. In XY mode with no signal input, all you see is a dot in the center of the screen. One input channel causes vertical deflection and the other causes horizontal deflection. Most scopes also have an input that can vary the intensity of dot at any given time (or quench it entirely...come to think of it the vectrex has to have that signal as well). If you soldered some shielded leads to the correct places in a Vectrex, it can drive an o-scope that is in XY mode.

      Check out the ZVG. This devices connects to an ECP compliant printer port and can be used to drive XY displays. They mention that both o-scopes and Vectrex displays are suitable to be used with their device. There are even versions of MAME that can use one of these devices to play the vector games. You could have arcade Star Wars on one of your Vectrex displays with this thing. It'd be black and white of course and the Vectrex display may not be fast enough to handle all of the vectors it throws out but you would recognize the display.

  23. Children claiming credit they don't deserve. by kinglink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It sounds to me that it's one of those "I invented the Internet" deals.

    Sadly these guys were all beaten by a couple score of years by the table top gamers, and those beaten by centuries by Board games, and of course I'm sure there was cavemen who played "who can get hit the hardest" and they beat us all.

    This book does sound interesting but the first chapter probably will throw most people, why don't people just accept they aren't the FIRST. There's only one, and it's likely to be an unstandardized and oddball chose, rather then a standardized idea. VMS and Unix easily predates Dos, tnd There's smaller OSes before that too, IBM is one of the first developers of computers, but hardly the first. Babbage is considered the creator of computers, but I'm sure even he stood on the shoulders of giants (while he was a giant himself too.)

    I prefer my historians to be realistic, even if they do believe themselves to do great things, Carmack is a genius, and as long as he doesn't run around and say he single handly created the FPS (though he did a HELL of a lot for it) I'll applaud him, same thing with Gates admiting that he changed a fledgling OS into DOS, or helping to create Basic, no he didn't do it himself, but he did take a decent idea and make one of the first stardized "simplistic" programming languages.

    Basically I just wish all these programmers or creators would just admit that they arn't the only person in the industry, admit what they did for the industry, and not they to make their accomplishment the only one in the industry, but then to make that wish I'd have to forget about human nature, and sadly I can't so I guess I understand the reasoning for it, but the wish will stay in my heart even if it's never spoken.

    1. Re:Children claiming credit they don't deserve. by Manchot · · Score: 1

      Al Gore did not say that he invented the Internet! Stop perpetuating this lie!

    2. Re:Children claiming credit they don't deserve. by styrofoam · · Score: 1
      Ralph's not necessarily claiming credit he didn't deserve- He's claiming (as I understand it) to be the person that brought videogames as a commodity to the home market. Ralph is truly one of the great engineering minds of the late 20th century- the stuff he designed, from Simon to games over cable, is pretty phenomenal.

      Meanwhile, Nolan Bushnell is the one livin' large with his hookers and blow, while his main talent is packaging and commodifying. Nolan seems to have recognized a bunch of good ideas and just kine of bundled them together in one consumer-friendly package. His engineering skills would appear to be relatively limited. Bushnell is the Jobs to Baer's Wozniak.

      Baer strikes me as a very straightlaced guy that's down with the establishment, a true company man. In the early 70s he comes up with (unarguably) fantastic ideas and fights his damndest to get them to market, with limited success. Suddenly this damn hippie comes along, (possibly) swipes one of his ideas, and becomes the hottest personality in America. I can see how this would still just a sore point with Ralph. The man that put most of the technological genius behind the electonic revolution is forced to play second fiddle to a marketing guy. This is certainly a theme that most /. readers can have some sympathy with.

      Sidebars: I've played a few games on Ralph Baer's original prototype Brown Box- against Ralph himself. The man plays a mean game of pong (or whatever it was he called it.) Playing on that system was truly one of the holy grails of video game geekdom.

      And as much as I appreciate everything that Ralph does, and recognize his contributions to the industry with respect to Mr. Bushnell, I have to admit that I named one of my sons Nolan.

    3. Re:Children claiming credit they don't deserve. by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "Carmack is a genius, and as long as he doesn't run around and say he single handly created the FPS"

      *Cough* "MIDI Maze" on the Atari ST *cough*

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    4. Re:Children claiming credit they don't deserve. by kinglink · · Score: 1

      Good points, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve recognition but if he puts down "space wars" and other unconvential games, that's one thing, same if he ignores them, but if someone wants to write a FULL history they should be giving everything, not ignoring them or undervaluing the originators.

      That'd be like saying Wolfenstein wasn't a big step for development of current games or westwood did nothing for RTS.

  24. eh by Crescens · · Score: 1

    I have the same tshirt, because that's where I started gaming for the most part. :|

  25. Young Hooligans by hexed_2050 · · Score: 1, Funny

    When I was your age, I decided not to walk to school uphill both ways 10km in the snow with no shoes to stay home and play games like Donkey Kong Mario Bros 1. Now all you wippersnappers play bling bling games like Quarter Life 2, and Battlefield 2-thousand or something. Hooligans I tell you.

    --
    Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
    1. Re:Young Hooligans by thc69 · · Score: 1
      When I was your age, I decided not to walk to school uphill both ways 10km in the snow with no shoes to stay home and play games...
      Hah! No shoes indeed...When I was your age, I didn't have a choice; feet weren't invented yet. We had to walk on our ankles or not walk at all.
      --
      Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
    2. Re:Young Hooligans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I decided not to walk to school uphill both ways 10km in the snow

      Yeah? Well you foreigners had it easy man. For us folks stateside, it was 10 _miles_ in the snow. Much worse.

    3. Re:Young Hooligans by hexed_2050 · · Score: 1

      Did I mention it was 10km in Canadian winters?

      --
      Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
  26. Pong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 1st video game for home use I remember was pong. I must have been 10 years old. The upgrade to that was tank. Now look at me. Running a clan and playing TO-AOT and CS:S. Yikes!!

  27. Ironic? by Jetekus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can see why he thinks the t-shirt is ironic - the shirt doesn't depict the earliest known example of video gaming, but I don't agree with his judgement.

    If "roots" had to be the first known moment that a human did something (even if it was before your time), imagine the confusion. You couldn't say that your roots included MSDOS because the first computers did not run MSDOS. Would you have to say that the root was Babbage's mechanical computer, or would that be disqualified because it was never built?

    It's a nonsense. If the person first played on the NES then the t-shirt is perfectly sincere.

    1. Re:Ironic? by greymond · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree. And I'll add that the idea behind the "Root" shirt has nothing to do with the Atari or Pong of video games. Looking back over the last 20 years what was the first gaming console that made kids want stay in their homes for hours instead of going outside?

      The Nintendo (ok or Sega or NeoGeo if you were rich) The Atari was great and a lot of kids played it. But given the choice between playing Dodgeball back in 7th grade or playing Pitfall on the Atari - I'd pick Dodgeball in an instant. The Atari was great but it was played with on days when it was too rainy or snowy to go outside, and after an hour or two you'd get bored and want to do something else.

      Now the Nintendo...oh my...I didn't want to go outside because I could beat the crap out of my friends for hours in an NFL game or spend literally days exploring the worlds of FF and DW.

      My Nintendo is the "Root" of where I got my desire to play games. Not the Atari, Not the Commador64, Not my PC Jr.. Sorry those were all fun, but they didn't make me give up the outside world and make me spend 4-6 hours in front of them every night.

    2. Re:Ironic? by sesshomaru · · Score: 1
      Not the Commador64
      Hmm... I had always assumed that the C64 was the equivalent of an Atari 800. However, if this is accurate, then I am mistaken. Because who wants to go to dirty old "outside" rather than play Enchanter/M.U.L.E./Ultima III, or dozens of other games I won't mention here...
      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    3. Re:Ironic? by greymond · · Score: 1

      Atari had several models of consoles over the years the 800 was one of the first that had a lot of memorable games - the Commodore64 had/played a lot of the same games. So yeah those models were equivalent, but not the same thing.

      http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?s t=1&c=460

      http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c =98

    4. Re:Ironic? by DotWarner · · Score: 1

      My Nintendo is the "Root" of where I got my desire to play games. Not the Atari, Not the Commador64...

      Then you were not a born gamer. The only reason I didn't stay inside and "play Atari" for days on end is that I wasn't allowed to have one. And that was on games that sucked, though at age 8 I had not developed the capacity to tell the difference. And the Commodore=64 was leaps and bounds beyond the Atari in graphics and sound. I still play Krakout and Doriath in emulation, and the adaptations of games like Omega Race and Ms. Pac-Man were close enough to lose that "playing at home" letdown feel.

      Blueprint, Jumpman, Karateka, Boulder Dash, Rambo, Beach Head, Bard's Tale, Gorf, even Wizard of Wor. If they didn't suck you in, then you weren't a born gamer. You're probably...well...y'know, normal. But I wouldn't generalize that to the general public, and say that video games at home didn't catch on until the Nintendo.

    5. Re:Ironic? by greymond · · Score: 1

      "Then you were not a born gamer."

      So dogeball isn't a game? From the time we're born all of us enjoy playing games - so we're all "born gamers" now born video game players well thats just silly. You're simply wanting to claim firsties for something. If it makes you feel better then alright. But at some point people need to get over their delusions of grandeur...Pong is not something that can captivate you for hours upon hours unless you have ADD. Sure when it was first invented people spent years writing code and working on hardware for it and I'm sure they actually played it to death, but when it was placed on a store shelf and little Joey bought it, he'd play it for an hour maybe 2 and then he did somethign else.

  28. I love bringing out the old games by filesiteguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a senior project manager I am surrounded by 20-somethings who think that the world revolves around Halo and/or MechAssult...

    Every once in a while I like to fire up either MAME or Stella (Atari 2600 emulator) to show them "the old days". I usually bring out Galaxian or Pac Man or Night Driver or Pitfall...

    Oddly enough, some of these peeps have learned a bit and are enjoying using the emulators during break time.

    1. Re:I love bringing out the old games by NivenHuH · · Score: 1

      I need to work for you! :O

      --
      Just when you make it idiotproof, some idiot builds a better idiot.
    2. Re:I love bringing out the old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing like an employee in a senior position storing pirated ROMs on company equipment and encouraging junior employees to do the same.

      Your boss must be so proud.

      Douche. If you worked for me you'd be fired as a liability.

    3. Re:I love bringing out the old games by radarsat1 · · Score: 1

      strange, i am in fact a 20-something and i can only seem to enjoy these types of games. (along with Tetris of course)

      Just can't get into the 3D shooters that are popular these days. The last one I played in any sort of way more serious than a quick glance was Doom II, which was fun, but didn't really keep my attention for more than a few days. And I was .. hm.. 16, I think.

      Guess I'm more busy programming than gaming lately, but when I do it's usually something of the oldschool "arcade" variety, or SNES-style platform or rpg games.

      Then again being 25, I seem to vividly recall playing Burger Time on Atari at the neighbour's house and thinking it was amazing, so I guess I caught the tail end of the pre-NES era.

      I have to admit that the physics simulations taking place in 3D games these days is really intriguing, but only in an intellectual way. I never really seem to get addicted to particular games these days.

    4. Re:I love bringing out the old games by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Don't assume all 20 somethings haven't seen anything older than a nintendo. I'm in my late 20s and had an Atari 2600 while growing up. My grandparents actually owned an Odessey like was talked about in the review. Not to mention games like Pacman, defender, dig dug, etc... that we played at Pizza Huts, laundry mats or anywhere else where you had to sit for awhile.

    5. Re:I love bringing out the old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Its a good thing the FBI already has their hands full tracking down DVDs being shown commercially instead of for home use, cause the next thing on their list is going after Atari ROM pirates.

    6. Re:I love bringing out the old games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but all it takes is one disgruntled employee to sic the BSA on you for an audit/enema. They have hotlines setup for just that. I assume if you're cavalier about having pirated ROMs on the machines that it doesn't stop there. Generally it's a good business decision not to bring forth the furious $250,000 per violation stick of justice down on the ass that is crapping out your paychecks.

      But, whatever. A shitty employee is a shitty employee. Pirated anything on work machines is stupid and careless and should get you fired.

    7. Re:I love bringing out the old games by spiderbitendeath · · Score: 1

      I'm 23, and personally, don't like Halo. My game collection goes back to The Oddessy, Colecovision, Intellivision, and Atari 2600. Sitting right next to my Gamecube right now is my Atari 2600 and NES. Most games today I find boring, mostly fancy graphics and boring gameplay. I'd rather go head to head in Combat or DOOM than Halo or MechAssult. Why do us 20-somethings always get looked at like we can't see beyond the latest and fanciest junk out there? Blah Sorry, I'm sure that was a rant.

      --
      Sometimes when I'm working on projects things disappear, I suspect gremlins.
    8. Re:I love bringing out the old games by stagl · · Score: 1

      you are bitter and need to take a vacation. be gone!

      --

      R.I.P.
  29. I'll bet he got the 'know your roots' shirt at a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hackers conference.

  30. Not just a teenager by Gadgetfreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm 25 (Born in 1980) The first game system I had was NES, in 1987. That is, I can't remember much before '86, and my parents didn't buy me Atari. So the NES really is the roots of my video gaming life. A teenager is probably beyond the original NES as far as roots go.

    I've spent the last 8 years moving back and forth from college and various apartments... and 2 weeks ago, I dug my original NES out of the box, hooked it up, and played Metroid. It really was a blast from the past. It's been 15 years since I played it.

    And if you really want a tribute to good ol' fashioned gossip and fan networks, think how fast the Justin Bailey code spread without the existene of the internet or BBS.

    Those are roots.

    --
    "No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
    1. Re:Not just a teenager by tont0r · · Score: 1

      my dad owned his own atari retail store, so even before nintendo came out, i had all the atari crap i could ever want :). king of the mountain was an amazing game. i tried playing zork 1, but i was alittle too young to actually do well in the game. hehe

    2. Re:Not just a teenager by caino59 · · Score: 1

      agreed on most of your latter points.

      and to clarify, i was born early 1981. I had an early NES but was lucky enough to have my grandparents give me an Atari 2600 - I spent equal ammounts on both machines.

      Nintendo has, and continues to, provide a great gaming experience on all levels.

      Sony and Microsoft based consoles not so much - they have their winners - but as most people are pointing out - look at the controls (even Nintendo has bowed to this) things are becomming more complex.

      The market is demanding this complexity - not your everyday entry level gamer or mom or dad. Kids are growing up with this more complex, semi-reality facade game and thats what the scene is going to push.

      Things just aren't what they used to be.

    3. Re:Not just a teenager by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      preach on brother,
          i grew up watching my dad who owned a byte shop computer store play space something or other on an atari 800. it was the game that had the hyperspace thing where all the 1 pixel stars stretch out star wars style. the only thing i played on that or my friends 2600 was breakout. The NES is the roots of our generation. I played colecovision at my cousins house, and intellivision at the babysitters, but the one that changed everything was my nintendo.

      I still have every system (including the NES) that I have owned since then hooked up (much to my roommate's chagrin) and all anyone ever wants to play is punch out! And the funny thing is that even when some drunk chick shows up at 2:00 am she will scream and yell at you for being a total retard if you actually lose to king hippo.

  31. Sung to the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 3, Funny

    "We Didn't Stop Atari" By Francisco Rangel

    (To the tune of We Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel)

    Harry Potter, Pokemon, Tomb Raider, Digimon
    Monkey Island, Space Invaders, Super Mario
    Maniac Mansion, Zero Mission, Mortal Kombat, Pole Position
    Grand Theft Auto, Ninja Gaiden, Pong and Yu-gi-oh

    Megaman, Depth Bomb, Asteroids, Robotron
    Tetris, and Army Men, River Raid, and Suikoden
    Castlevania, Kirby, Demolition Derby
    Dragon Warrior, LEGO Racers, Yoshi's Island, Gauntlet

    I really miss Atari. From when I was younger, Now the games are longer
    So, I still play Nintendo. Like to keep it old-skool, 8-bit's always so cool

    South Park Rally, Harvest Moon, Jungle Hunt and Zoo Tycoon
    Double Dragon, Puyo Puyo, NBA Jam
    Duck Hunt, Tony Hawk, Chrono Trigger, Chuck Rock
    Q*Bert, Sonic, Worms, and Serious Sam

    Half-life, Max Payne, Zak McKraken, and Bloodrayne
    Onimusha, Sam and Max, Age of Empires, Golden Axe
    Home run, Outer Space, Prince of Persia, Death Race
    Alley Cat, Paperboy, Sinistar, SimCity

    I used to love my gameboy
    First they made it Color, Then they made is smaller
    My portable companion
    It has been enhanced now, So it's called "Advance" now

    Bomberman, Burning Fight, Killer Instinct, Gyromite
    Frogger, Basketball, Day of the Tentacle
    Solitaire, and Sim Park, Raiders of the Lost Ark
    Ice Climber, and Descent, and Unreal Tournament

    There's Street Fighter, Zaxxon, Duke Nukem, Mafia
    Need for Speed, Halo, Turok: Evolution
    Rampage, Deus Ex, and that BMXXX
    Metroid Prime and Fusion, Dance Dance Revolution

    Genesis made by Sega. 16 bits of power Made Nintendo cower
    They made Super Nintendo. Neither one was hated, Neither dominated

    Leisure Suit Larry, Project Gotham Racing
    Punchout, Zork, Doom, Zombies Ate My Neighbors
    Legend of Kyrandia, DOA Beach Volleyball
    Dig Dug, Nethack, Contra and Plaque Attack
    Zelda, Moon Patrol, Battlezone and Star Control
    Zero Wing, Baldur's Gate, FIFA Soccer 98

    The 3D Revolution. First we saw Playstation, Our infatuation
    N64 and Dreamcast. Came along to fight it, But they couldn't smite it

    Splinter Cell, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong is back again
    Warcraft, Starcraft, Centipede, Xybots
    Pitfall, Pengo, Burger Time, 3D Castle Wolfenstein
    Ninja Turtles in Japan, Roger Wilco needs a tan.

    Hogan's Alley, Excitebike, Quest For Glory, Counter-strike
    Ultima, 7th Guest, Quake, Joust, Everquest
    Klax, Defender, Earthworm Jim, The Incredible Machine
    Final Fantasy, and Loom, I have no space in my room

    New consoles are arriving. GameCube, PS2, We've got Xbox,too
    New consoles will be coming. But when these are gone
    We will still play on and on and on and on...

    http://www.bbspot.com/News/2004/06/stop_atari.html

    1. Re:Sung to the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. you have like so much more free time than me.

      Wow.

    2. Re:Sung to the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

      Did you notice the link at the bottom of the post?

    3. Re:Sung to the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Lotana · · Score: 1

      Nice list of great games.

      It is a shame that a few are forgoten:

      Planescape Torment
      Freespace 1 and 2
      Grim Fandago
      Total Annihilation
      System Shock 1 and 2
      Homeworld
      Diablo
      Daggerfall and Morrowind

      And I am sure there is many more...

    4. Re:Sung to the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by rodbod · · Score: 1

      HJ Hibbett wrote a lovely nostalgic song called "Hey Hey 16k" which can be downloaded at

      http://www.aas.mcmail.com/aas024/mp3.htm

      I could never afford a Speccy...

      --
      In the long run, everything's public domain. Think Long! Copyright - Just Don't Do It.
  32. Romanticized? by phorm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How many other geeks out there find that the romanticized universes of games, books, and movies have affected their view of life and/or actions. For movies, this is to a lesser extent nowadays, as they are generally more sap and sex than anything.

    Various women have mentioned that I tend to have an old-fashioned flair for opening doors or genteel conversion. Most of these mannerisms I've probably picked up from books, some perhaps from games. Does anyone else find this to be the case?

    1. Re:Romanticized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Various women have mentioned that I tend to have an old-fashioned flair for opening doors or genteel conversion. Most of these mannerisms I've probably picked up from books, some perhaps from games."

      You're freaking joking right? I can understand picking up some of those habits if you read lots of books and the male characters in them are chivalrious, but GAMES? No freakin way. You're really pushing it there.

    2. Re:Romanticized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Values picked up from a conglomeration of idealized fictional cultures rather than the actual society around me.

      May I ask, were you a "loner"?

    3. Re:Romanticized? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you considered that you might be gay?

  33. Confusing by rlp · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's like a maze of twisty tunnels all alike.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
    1. Re:Confusing by lahvak · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and on top of that, I think I smell the evil wumpus nearby.

      --
      AccountKiller
    2. Re:Confusing by rlp · · Score: 1

      Don't get eaten by a grue!

      --
      [Insert pithy quote here]
  34. For anyone who is interested in a shirt by pr0vidence · · Score: 1

    Those "Know your roots" T-shirts can be had at Target for about $10. I have one, and wear it proudly.
     
    For me, Nintendo IS where my gaming roots lie. NES was my first console, and I am still a die hard fan of it. I realize that there were consoles before it. And I realize some were popular. For me, however, NES is where it all started.

    1. Re:For anyone who is interested in a shirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do they have any "Know your roots" shirts with good early UNIX xploits?

  35. spastacular by SunPin · · Score: 1

    Old school spastacular gaming has no equal.

    --
    Laws are for people with no friends.
  36. Roots? by phorm · · Score: 1

    I don't know about you, but I found that the controller implied more that the shirt-owner's roots were founded in video games... hardcore geekdom founded in games and other such things (perhaps NES being the first of such).

  37. Those were the days.... by sesshomaru · · Score: 1
    Link to Ralph H. Baer's Website:

    R A L P H H. B A E R

    I had an Odyssey, and let me tell you, it was pretty darn cool back in the day. I especially liked K. C. Munchkin, a superior home version of Pacman that had several improvements over the original game (you could create your own mazes, pretty advanced for those days). Of course, it had to be pulled because Atari or someone sued.

    Another game that was cool was the Quest for the Rings, which had really great packaging. I also liked it as a game.

    Oh, and there was some really bizarre game with monkeys that I liked, and a pretty good Donkey Kong knockoff.

    Now I'm nostalgic... I wish they'd release one of those multi-game machines with Odyssey games in it.... I sold the whole kit for $25 to a guy who ran some kind of game store. Sob, I'll never be able to get Quest for the Rings back now...

    --
    "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    1. Re:Those were the days.... by BLAMM! · · Score: 1

      I know exactly how you feel. I gave my Odyssey system to a friend for his birthday years ago. He was a total fanatic, and I hadn't played it in a few years. Seemd like nice thing to do, but now I really miss it.

      My favorite was Smithereens! with "The Voice". Tho Pick-Axe Pete is a close second. Alas, Alack!

    2. Re:Those were the days.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that was an Odyssey II.

      The original Odyssey only had a few games, and they were variations on the PONG setup. It also included dice, cards for specific games, and plastic overlays that you would put on the TV screen for the different games.

      One I remember in particular was Haunted House. If one paddle touched the other, the one that was touched would dissappear.

    3. Re:Those were the days.... by JLyle · · Score: 1
      I had an Odyssey, and let me tell you, it was pretty darn cool back in the day.
      Well, I also had an Odyssey (actually, the Odyssey II) and let me tell you, my brother and I considered it the welfare version of the Atari 2600. Even an Intellivision would have been better than the Odyssey.

      But I'm glad you liked yours.
    4. Re:Those were the days.... by 3waygeek · · Score: 1

      We had one of the original Odyssey units (none of this 2 nonsense). Mom worked for a Magnavox dealer so we got the first one that came into the store. IIRC it would have been in 1972/73 -- I was in grade school at the time.

      In the original Odyssey, all the games were basically variants of Pong. The console only painted a few white squares (basically the game pieces -- no walls/obstacles), and you put a plastic overlay on your TV screen to simulate the court/maze/whatever.

  38. Internet roots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our internet roots:

    Internet History

  39. Dreams of Doom by SunPin · · Score: 1

    Yes. And those days required--at least with me--to wait until 2 a.m. so both phone lines could be free for modem and talking. There was nothing like shouting out to your buddy to cover you while venturing across the surface.

    --
    Laws are for people with no friends.
    1. Re:Dreams of Doom by wiremind · · Score: 1

      Ha Ha,
      That is probably the number 1 reason I turned into a night person.

      I would sleep all afternoon so that i could wake up around 11:30pm call my friend and we'd play co-op till 5am.

  40. Digging for Roots... by Stanistani · · Score: 4, Funny

    >His shirt showed an original Nintendo controller and said 'Know your roots.'

    Wish I still had my old t-shirt which showed the solution of a quadratic equation and had the same motto...

    1. Re:Digging for Roots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're a dumbasss.

    2. Re:Digging for Roots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're one of the inferior /. fucktards that can't even think about a polynomial curve without your little brain hurting. Have you considered sterilisation?

  41. Roots (for me) of online gaming - BBS + MUDs by SA3Steve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I still remember playing Trade Wars on local BBSs and Red Dragon as well. The fact that you could do things which impacted other player's games was amazing and I always remember dreading that I would log on and find that I was destroyed overnight.

    When I found MUDs (Medievia was my main one), I was in heaven. I was simply amazed at what we could do and how you could interact with other players in real time. It didn't matter that there weren't any graphics, it was just simply amazing.

  42. Nintendo. by iLEZ · · Score: 1

    Ok, i assume that the offending controller on the t-shirt in question is the NES 8-bit controller. Even though there absolutely were gaming-systems before that time, the NES 8-bit is still seen amongst many people as a symbol of vintage gaming. Am i right?
    I mean, how uncool would it be to have the phone-dial of the coleco vision on a t-shirt that said "know your roots"? People would be asking if you were referring to amateur radio, ATMs or perhaps early touch-tone phones..

    --
    You cant fight in here, its a war room!
    1. Re:Nintendo. by planetoid · · Score: 1

      Even though Nintendo was by no means the first, I wouldn't exclude it from being in a, er, "roots" category. Doesn't Nintendo's soundchip stand a rightful place alongside the Commodore 64's SID for being the precursor to chiptune aesthetics by today's chiptune composers? Doesn't Nintendo stand a rightful place alongside the Atari 2600 for helping shape the unwritten standards and gameplay mechanics for platform games? And I would say it was Nintendo and Sega whose earliest games have had a profound influence on futuristic vector (or vector-ish) graphic artists, including but not limited to the Designer's Republic and just about every flyer you see for a techno music gathering.

      As much as I love roguelikes, I can't say they have had such a profound influence on our society and pop culture as 1980's game consoles have, and Nintendo had a huge hand in that. There is, after all, more to videogames than just playing them. Nintendo didn't do it alone, but it definitely was "there". Every videogame history article I've read also makes claims that it was mostly Nintendo, though, that pulled the videogame market out of some kind of wheezing slump in the earliest parts of the 1980s.

      --
      Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
    2. Re:Nintendo. by iLEZ · · Score: 1

      Cheers to that!

      --
      You cant fight in here, its a war room!
    3. Re:Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Even though there absolutely were gaming-systems before that time, the NES 8-bit is still seen amongst many people as a symbol of vintage gaming.

      No, I see the Atari 2600 as vintage gaming. Obviously these "many" people you refer to are of a different generation.

    4. Re:Nintendo. by iLEZ · · Score: 1

      I see the Atari as vintage gaming too, but i don't see it as a SYMBOL of vintage gaming. See the difference?

      --
      You cant fight in here, its a war room!
  43. That's because... by Man+In+Black · · Score: 1

    I downloaded some "all in one" rom package years ago, a few thousand nes roms. Sad thing was: 8 of 10 were crap.

    That's because they were crap back in the days too. Keep in mind that "a few thousand" games is way more than anyone actually played back in the days... hundreds of those are just pirate games released in china and such (There were only around 600 or so domestic releases). Forget about GoodNES sets, look at the games that were actually popular releases and the ratio is much better.

    --
    -"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -EH
    1. Re:That's because... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      I know. I know.

      But thats something nostalgia people often forget: If you only pick the best 50 or so games of the decade, they _will_ be great.
      Comparing with the latest shooter that didnt match the expectations and then crying "back then everything was better" just isnt correct.

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    2. Re:That's because... by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      Some subset of that 50 is what most people had or rented more than once. It wasn't until I started playing with emulators that I too was introduced to the Smorgasbord o' Crap effect. Well, I take that back. During the videogame crash of '84, I picked up scads of 2600 titles for $10 or less. Maybe one in three of those had any replay value. But then then the glut of mediocre titles and half-baked vaporware from the publishers/manufacturers then was what caused the crash.

      On through the NES, Genesis, and SNES periods I pretty much saw the same selection of titles when I went to people's houses. And those playable titles are what we are remembering today. The good playable titles are still coming out for today's consoles but I think they are bit harder to find. It seems like almost everything is a licensed title or a franchise. The amount of money it takes to make a modern title seems to worsen the problem as the beancounters insist on "sure things". This leaves less room for the wild experimentation and wider genres of earlier console generations.

  44. Read between the scanlines: by itomato · · Score: 2, Informative

    If your experience halts upon the screen's surface, you need a little coaching.

    Turn your attention to the interaction between screen elements (sprites) and their sounds. That's where the gameplay happens.

    (You might have to get a real 2600 for this to work properly, but it's easy now, with the 2600 & more available at Wal-Mart & such)

    The thing that makes new machines great - even the NES, is the incredibly simplistic graphics on the old systems. Inversely, the thing that makes the older systems *good* in the first place, is how inventively and captivatingly they work within the contraints of a tiny memory space, 2-axis, 1-button controls, and 480 lines of 60Hz video.

    What your mind experiences as "gameplay" is a combination of the feedback from your hands/fingers on the control, the visual triggers from that blocky pixel bouncing into/around/over the static area. When the "blocky pixel" becomes a biplane-shaped sprite, and the static area a vaguely "barn-shaped" color area, and you have to use this little stick with one button to manoeuvre the "biplane" through the "barn", you have a Game.

    Making the game "Fun" is another challenge altogether. You have a single channel, voltage controlled synthesizer with which to generate happy sounds, mean sounds, ambient sounds, and triumphant sounds. You have the stick with button. You have hardware limits in storage, code execution speed, etc. Line up alll those pieces, and because you had to make sacrifices, each interaction becomes something meaningful.

    The best analogy I can come up with would be to listen to any of the meatier tracks on "I Care Because You Do" or "Drukqs - Disc 2" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00 0002HIK/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/103-5231162-9433400?v=gl ance&s=music) at 50% the normal speed. You begin to see and appreciate all the "fun" interactions between the bits. The experience has time to dawn on you, and that makes all the difference.

    Why don't children play golf?

    Because compared to blocks & mud, it's no fun. Why? Because there are too many rules and roadblocks, and paraphernalia. Freeze tag, go-fish, war, jumprope, hopscotch, etc, all have extremely low entry ceiling.

    Fun games all have that quality - whether based on the meat-plane or in Cyberspace.

    The ability to GET IN AND PLAY is what keeps your play center titillated. Q3 Deathmatch: Prime example. Ms Pacman, Donkey Kong, Mario, Poke(shudder)mon, Kirby, and the Prince in Katamari Damacy all know this.

    1. Re:Read between the scanlines: by FLAGGR · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Okay, there are two types of games as I see it. The games you're talking about, typical to the Atari, are "game games". Simple and fun. Personally, I tire of them quickly, but I know they mean something special for some people, and the more modern ones (examples you listed at the end) are actually quite awsome games.

      Then there are simulation games. Iw as just looking at a pic of MGS3 (not my cup of tea, but oh well.) It's trying to simulate the real world, stealth and AI as best as possible. Some people really enjoy this. Personally, a defining moment in my video game playing career was playing a used game I got at EB for $2, x-beyond the frontier. It's a space sim, with an economy where you trade crap, buy ships, blow shit up and build factories etc. Not like starcraft or anything, its a persistant universe, and fighting is done through the cockpit of a single ship, maybe using the AI commands to make your other ships attack with you. I remember, the first solar system you land in. The graphics were shit, let me tell you, pure shit. Some alien dudes are talking, the Taladi or something, but the voice acting is crap and you can't understand it. When your flying in the system, the first thing you notice is size. it takes like a minute to fly to the nearest station, as you watch it come closer and closer. The funny thing is, you could see the seams in space, like in the FAR off distance, where the level ended, everything was enclosed in a cube, with the stars textured on, but they did it badly so you could see the edges of the inside of the cube. (/me hands the dev's a tutorial on texturing and lighting) If you play it, and sit back and think about it, each sector, no matter how big it is, is actually small. Distances mean shit in computer graphics, since its all just empty space, so technically, in a sense, its easier to do "big" than small. For some reason though that didn't matter, because I felt like I was flying through space. The cool thing is, in space stations, you had to manually dock until you got the autopilot upgrade. Fly to fast, or not in a straight line, and boom your dead. The sequel X^2 is great too, great graphics.

      What am I trying to get at in this off topic post? The simple atari games dont appeal to me, that doesn't mean they don't have soul. If the new fangled first person shooter with a million polys per character doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean someone else doesn't, and doesn't mean it doesn't have soul in their perspecitve. It's all about what kind of emotional response you personally get, whether its a joy from the pure mechanics of the game, or immersion from the realistic setting.

    2. Re:Read between the scanlines: by itomato · · Score: 1

      I guess it's the difference in experience that creates the partition between generations of games.

      Pinball-1976: Non-immersive, physical, mechanical, metal ball/bumpers

      1979-1994: Non-immersive, still have to use your imagination to get into the game, pixels/sprites

      1995-today: Fully immersive, makes you part of the game in ways never before possible (3-D goggles, halo-headsets, as many polygons in a game as stars in the sky)
      --

      They're all useless bores if the act of manipulating the controls fails to excite the brain.

      In my view, we should be training today's game developers in fine motor skills and hand/eye/brain intercommunication.

  45. Al Gore did not invent the internet? by lildogie · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why else would the fundamental unit of computer logic be the Al-Gore-ithm?

  46. Homebrew PONG by lildogie · · Score: 1

    Please, I built a PONG game because I got tired of plugging quarters into the machine at the bus station.

    Besides, for ultra-low-tech, try "Operation!" (Bzzzt).

  47. GAWD I MISS NETREK by 0110011001110101 · · Score: 2, Informative
    anyone here every play that? i know it's still hanging in there.. but it's not like it used to be...

    you're not a real gamer until you use EVERY key on the keyboard to perform vital functions... Netrek knew that all too well.. oh yeah and it was low quality graphics, high quality gameplay... team play and intelligent thought required... what a concept.

    --
    Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
    1. Re:GAWD I MISS NETREK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yep. I played netrek often.

      -Mucus Pig

  48. Save Some Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Save yourself some money and actually GET a copy (since B&N is out...) by buying the book here: Videogames: In the Beginning

  49. Oy by Smallest · · Score: 2

    I read that subject too fast and thought it said "Hebrew PONG".

    --
    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
    1. Re:Oy by British · · Score: 1

      I read that subject too fast and thought it said "Hebrew PONG".

      Does the ball only go from right to left?

    2. Re:Oy by tepples · · Score: 1

      [In Hebrew PONG,] Does the ball only go from right to left?

      And if so, does that make regular PONG a Boustrophedon Greek game?

    3. Re:Oy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now THAT was truly funny.

  50. Why he denied Tenis for 2 & Space War by gameboyhippo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's obvious why he denied those two games as being videogames. It's because his company, Magnovox, had a patent on game consoles. As long as Magnovox held on to the patent, anybody wanting to make a game console would have to pay royalties.

    But of course, it is obvious that Tennis for Two and Space Wars are videogames. In fact, anybody who wants to play the origional Spacewar can do it here

  51. All hail Sirius! by linzeal · · Score: 1

    He is sentient isn't he what about the early developements around Sirius where Glypglork the Wise made the first binker dong game? All hail Sirius!

  52. It's Sad... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Every now and then I can find a kid (or a 20-year-old) who is shocked to discover that were video games in the "old days" (circa 1980s) when I was growing up. Sometimes I shock them by telling that mothers in my day actually kicked the kids out of the house to play out in the street during the summer because we had no video games. Kids these days...

  53. I used to have that t-shirt by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    but it wore out from putting too many quarters in the Ms PacMan machine at our military HQ, so I used it to clean the windshield of my first car.

    Back in my day, I used to fix the C64 and Timex Sinclair games (they all had bugs) for all my neighbors, and hacked the LED version of Star Trek on our PET, which would only print out on our graph plotter.

    And we liked it!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  54. Odyssey by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
    In the late 70s I bought a Magnavox Odyssey at a garage sale for $1

    It had colored sheets to tape (!) to your TV to play different games. It didn't come with all the cards, but as far as I could tell it didn't have many features.

    We'd play pong with manual scoring, roulette where you twiddle the dials and argue over which color the dot was on.

    Amazingly enough, I look back fondly on this.

    I'm not going to look for an emulator though.

    ...

    OK, Here

    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
    1. Re:Odyssey by freeweed · · Score: 1

      It didn't come with all the cards, but as far as I could tell it didn't have many features.

      No worries. The Odyssey (NOT the Odyssey 2, btw) came out in 1972, years before the microchip. It was made entirely of discrete electronic components, and there was no such thing as RAM/ROM.

      The "cards" you refer to, analagous to modern game cartridges (which of course the younger folk won't even know about... sigh, progress) were simply jumpers. Shorting a specific pin combination would essentially re-wire the internal circuitry in the Odyssey, and change the ball/paddle behaviour to a different game. Long story short, if you're willing to experiment you can make your Odyssey play ANY game it's capable of, just by connecting the right pins together. Now, without the proper overlays (there were some expansion packs release) the games aren't as much fun. Then again, on a modern TV the overlays don't fit very well anyway :)

      Pretty cool for its time, and there certainly hasn't been anything like it since. Every "multi-game" Pong clone I've ever seen has actually been on a chip, although the original Pong was in fact discrete circuitry as well.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    2. Re:Odyssey by 3waygeek · · Score: 1

      Tape? You must have had a newer TV set. The CRT on the mid-60's Magnavox TV/stereo console we used with our Odyssey generated enough static to keep the overlay well attached.

  55. Never, Ever Let Anyone Forget by Skeetskeetskeet · · Score: 1

    "All your base are belonging to us"...

    --
    Yeah, my karma sucks....but so do the mods.
    1. Re:Never, Ever Let Anyone Forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who are you trying to kid you fucking pissant? You weren't old enough to remember it - you couldn't even get the quote right!

  56. Tank Wars by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll go one better - Doom over a serial connection with each player in different rooms. That was deadly, having that thick serial cable sprawled across the floor between rooms.

    I've really been in the mood for some of those old games lately. My wife (then fiancee) and I spent hundreds of hours in front of my 12 MHz 286 playing "Tank Wars" until all hours of the night. I've really wanted to play that lately. It was a hell of a lot of fun in its simplicity and ease of use. Unfortunately, it did not have proper clock/tick synchronization, so my AMD Athlon 64 3200 makes it jump to Ludicrous Speed, so it's unplayable as is.

    But you're absolutely right that - even with the "simplistic" graphics and sound - they were FUN because they were forced to focus on gameplay. Only after 256-color games and 640x480 VGA graphics came into play was there an evident push to visuals at the expense of gameplay.

    Fortunately, open source and freeware utilities like ScummVM are making it easier to play a lot of those older games.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  57. Sturgeon's law in action by lrucker · · Score: 1

    90% of everything is crap. And the corollary: the "golden age" looks so good because we only remember the 10%

  58. Nintendo is the root by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While other console companies existed before Nintendo, they were largely unprofitable. Atari's abysmal failures in Pac-man and E.T. are just one example. In short, the entire console industry was about to be written off as just another fad. Nintendo's entry into the market was largely seen as suicide at best, according to many insiders. However, Nintendo did what Magnavox, Atari, and Colecovision could not: brought gaming into the mainstream and were comercially viable. To this day, some people call console gaming (regardless of platform) "playing Nintendo" just as some people call all sodas "coke".

    While gaming would've carried if Nintendo hadn't existed, it would've been mainly on the PC/Mac in my opinion. So while Nintendo was not the first console, it's the landmark console through which all modern consoles trace their roots.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:Nintendo is the root by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      "While other console companies existed before Nintendo, they were largely unprofitable. Atari's abysmal failures in Pac-man and E.T. are just one example. In short, the entire console industry was about to be written off as just another fad. Nintendo's entry into the market was largely seen as suicide at best, according to many insiders. However, Nintendo did what Magnavox, Atari, and Colecovision could not: brought gaming into the mainstream and were comercially viable. To this day, some people call console gaming (regardless of platform) "playing Nintendo" just as some people call all sodas "coke".

      You are completely wrong. Atari was the fastest growing company in American business history until Netscape. Atari is the root of the videogame industry and at one time, dominated 90% of the home industry, commanded much of the arcade, and was a major force in home computers. Up until late 1982, Atari also accounted for 2/3rds of the profits of Warner Communications (better known today as TimeWarner). The reason why Atari fell is because Atari was essentially the pioneer, there was no other example of creating a game machine platform and then licensing other companies to make software for it. In fact, it was the Atari-breakoff company named *Activision* that was the first third-party video game company. Because there was no licensing system in place, other companies learned how to make games for the Atari 2600 and there was no major player policing the market. Crappy games flooded the market and the industry crashed.

      Nintendo jumped in and applied the VHS videotape method to the industry. They also practiced monopolistic business behavior in requiring third party licensed companies to buy the manufactured cartridges directly from then and artificially limited the supply. Nintendo also tied up third party titles by demanding exclusive rights to the platform and preventing the same companies from porting the same games to different video game platforms in the American market. These practices were later challenged by the two successor companies to old Atari Inc. - those being the Atari Games Corporation/Tengen and the Atari Corporation. While they lost the case, Nintendo scrapped their discredited business practices.

      If you want to thank Nintendo, thank them for reviving the American videogame market from 1985-1986, when it became apparent that videogames were not a fad and prompted Atari and Sega to jump back in. And had someone else besides the Tramiel family had owned Atari Corp. at the time, they would've revived the industry before Nintendo debuted the NES in the American market. For example, the Atari 7800 was scheduled to debut in 1984 and it was delayed 2 years because of Warner selling 75% of the stock in the company to the Tramiels.

      Know your roots, indeed. Nintendo is an imposter to the greatness that was Atari.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    2. Re:Nintendo is the root by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > they were largely unprofitable. Atari's abysmal failures in Pac-man and E.T. are just one example.

        Wow. That's some major-league horseshit. Atari's 2600 was a massive financial success, so large that the Intellivision and Coleco systems were launched because their parent companies wanted a piece of that whopping great profit margin.
        The glut of bad games that followed IN THE WAKE of the success of the 2600 was largely responsible for the videogame crash of 1983 - Nintendo's biggest innovation was limiting who could make NES cartridges in order to prevent a second crash by ensuring some basic level of quality. (It also allowed them to royally screw developers, which is why so many jumped ship to Sega when the Genesis was released, but that's another era)
        Pretending that the 2600 was not a household word in order to call NES the "roots" of video gaming reeks of fanboyism.

    3. Re:Nintendo is the root by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      While other console companies existed before Nintendo, they were largely unprofitable. Atari's abysmal failures in Pac-man and E.T. are just one example.

      However, those followed numerous huge successes. It was Atari that basically invented the home videogame industry, and for a while they were hugely profitable.

      However, I think that many people overrate the importance of home systems in building videogames. Most of the real creativity at the time was in the coin arcade arena. Yes, many people have fond, nostalgic memories of playing at home with their Atari or NCS, but most of those games they remember were slow, ugly, blocky clones of games that had already succeeded in the arcades. Videogames didn't really break into the mainstream until the technology developed to the point that home consoles and home computers could offer graphics that were at least approximately competitive with the coin arcades--which really began with the Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo generation.

      Another important source of creativity in game development was early home computers with color graphics, specifically the Apple II, Atari 400/800, Commodore 64, and Amiga, which was pretty much independent of what Nintendo was doing at the time.

    4. Re:Nintendo is the root by Prien715 · · Score: 1

      Completely wrong is a bit of a stretch. As several posters commented, I used the phrase "largely unprofitable" to describe the Video game crash of '83. And yes, I was essentially thanking Nintendo for bringing the gaming industry out of that slump. I was essentially saying that few times in the history of consoles does one dominate for so long the way the original NES did. While Atari did dominate the market, the market was smaller.

      I would wager the real reason Atari died was that they tried to treat games as comodity items rather than art forms. Had the Pac-man and ET games been given the time and resources needed, the developers could've suceeded and continued to hold market share (and make a profit). But consoles don't sell themselves, games sell the consoles. Nintendo, I think -- and many companies as well (EA, Activision, and Sierra just to name a few) -- understood at a management level that good games took time and effort; delaying a game for better playability is almost always a good decision.

      You're right to point out that Nintendo has historically been unkind to 3rd parties (which is why most have jumped ship by now), but that doesn't diminish the revolutionary quality of their 1st party offerings which were the ultimate selling point behind the NES.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    5. Re:Nintendo is the root by rolenta · · Score: 1

      Actually, you should thank Coleco for bringing the gaming industry out of the slump. If it wasn't for Coleco, Nintendo wouldn't be the monolith it is today. When Nintendo introduced the Famicom in Japan in 1983, they already had sights on the rest of the world. However, Atari was a powerhouse that they couldn't contend with. So Nintendo made a deal with Atari. They were going to give Atari the rights to release the NES everywhere on the globe except Japan. Atari agreed and they were going to sign papers at the 1983 Summer CES. At the CES, Coleco introduced its computer system Adam. Adam also played games and was esentially a Colecovision in computer's clothing. And at the CES, they had Donkey Kong played through the Adam. The problem with this was while Coleco had the home gaming rights to Nintendo's games, Atari had the computer gaming rights to those games. Coleco could have Donkey Kong playing on a Colecovision but Adam was a computer and in Atari's eyes it voided Atari's license. Atari told Nintendo to get the matter straightened out or else they wouldn't sign the agreement to market the NES. It tok several months but Nintendo fixed the problem. But by then the crash occurred and Atari was no longer the force that it started as. Nintendo no longer saw Atari as a threat and decided to release the Nintendo around the world on its own. And the rest is history....

  59. Retro Arcade Photographs by antdude · · Score: 1

    Click here to see old arcade center images. Seen on MAMEWorld.net.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  60. I'll show you an ironic nintendo t-shirt by joeuser24 · · Score: 1

    My younger brother got me a "Classically Trained" shirt from Hot Topic for xmas, but the nintendo console on the front has a green power light and a dark grey cartridge cover! Maybe it was to avoid copyright issues, but come on...

    http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITE M=229374&RN=344/

  61. You're both right! by nobodyman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The arguments in the parent post and the, er.., "grandparent" are not really mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say there's a lot of truth in both.

    On one hand, I think that the older generation of games tend to decry the games of today as being derivative, uncreative titles that focus more on technology and graphics than gameplay. I think that this is a nostalgic view that glosses over a mountain of crap. In fact, I'd argue that the ratio good/bad games has remained relatively constant. You had franchises with too many sequels, and you had legions of copy-cat titles. It's just that people only remember Pac-Man and Galaga -- they dont remember Pac Man Jr., Super Pac Man, Pac-Man Pinball, and the legion of forgettable Galaga clones.

    On the other hand, I think that it's true that video games are getting overly complex and overwrought, and that is part of the reason why development costs are spiraling out of control. The added competition in a larger game industry is part of the reason, but In general I think games are just getting too "big".

    I think games like Kamitari Damacy are a model for what other games should be. KD is alot of fun, and easy to learn, but it isn't obsessively focused on realism and it was a relatively quick game to play (I finished it in a weekend). So, Konami was able to price it at $20 in the U.S. and it did quite well.

  62. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  63. ReInactment by zipzap54 · · Score: 1
    --
    "All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors."
  64. The Old Man and the IC... by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I was a wee lad I had a friend with a near senile old grandfather - an ex-electronics tech with the Army. His routine was set - breakfast, go out into the garage and tinker with circuits, lunch, nap, more tinkering, supper, and then when the sun set - his self-built Heathkit HAM Radio.

    One fine day me and my buddy were happily playing 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' on his 2600 when the old man broke his routine enough to stick his head in and say, "Those things are just silly, really. Nothin' to 'em. Just a bunch of IC's..."

    That led to a discussion on how 'foolish' those IC's were. "Nothin' to 'em!", he'd shout (making his antiquated hearing aid whistle and hum loudly). A little while later, he tried to show me why the transistor was better than ''em all'. It was amazing. He saw absolutely NO advantages to using integrated circuits. I think he sniffed at them because they represented something he couldn't fix - something he couldn't tear apart and trouleshoot. His biggest complaint was that the IC 'made people lazy'. :)

    When I look at video games today and try and compare them with the past, I always keep his example in mind. As I get older, I see how easy and how tempting it is to shut off any advances simply because I don't understand them fully. It's scary out there after all.

    As a critic of video games, I have to come up with something better than: "This game sucks because games like Defender had FAR more playability!" Even if that's my opinion (and it often is), I have to at least try and see things from an unjaded perspective. Most kids today don't know, don't WANT to know about how it was when you played 'Hunt The Wumpus' on punchcards.

    There's something about being a kid and having those first experiences - whether it's Project Gotham, Metroid, or Asteroids - that make it special for you (if no one else). That's the kind of thing you can't explain to other people who haven't been there - and don't try. Education is one thing, getting lost or losing perspective in the past is another.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  65. Tshirt by nawtykitty · · Score: 1

    I too have that "know your roots" shirt. Even though my first game console was an Odyssy, I had to settle on that shirt. Meh.

    --
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  66. Forceful Feedback by Tomeee · · Score: 1

    When I read the word ironic I wanted to punch the author of the article in the face... ... If anyones sitting beside him, do us all a favour. ~My roots are Sega Genesis, playing Sonic.

  67. I have that t-shirt... by kubevubin · · Score: 1

    And I definitely realize that the NES is most definitely not the 'beginning' of video games. However, the NES was my first game console, so I very much consider it to be the very definition of my video game 'roots'.

    Yes, it's true that NES didn't exactly start it all, but the NES is ultimately what fished the industry out of the toilet.

  68. Things I don't miss about Doom: by Chordonblue · · Score: 4, Funny

    Top of the list: Death of hardware

    Me and this guy from across town used to pound the living hell out of each other at 14.4K. At first, it was friendly rivalry but later, shit started getting abused.

    The first casualty was my nice, almost new 500 MB hard drive. I still remember it: There I was, circling around back of the cathedral to take him out when all of a sudden I turn around and get a face full of rocket. Totally surprised (and pissed), I pounded my fist on the table screaming incoherantly (probably something similar to, "Son a BITCH!") and within my desktop I heard the scariest noise ever: 'whhhhiiiirrrrr... Click... whhhhhiirrrrr'. Yep. Destroyed my hard drive that day.

    But my buddy did even better than that a few weeks later. I had helped him get a motherboard and processor but I had no case to donate. He ended up with this old Hyundai case. Man did that suck! Everything in the case was off by like half a centimeter (a Dremel can only do so much)!

    Anyway, because of the sickly case design, he'd have to keep it open with a room fan blowing into the case to keep it from overheating. It was kinda comical and sad at the same time.

    Now, how many of you remember that level with all the REALLY THIN walls you had to walk on with lava below? Well, I found out that the spawnpoints were such that he could not finish the level if I didn't want him to. I'd simply wait for him to get on those thin walls and blow him away.

    After doing this (I'm not kidding) around 40 times, he texts me and says something like, "Godddamint chuk. if you fucking do that one more time im done." I'm sure you realize that this kind of message is the kind that almost insures his death. The funny thing was, he was on the walls again when I came around the corner, rocket launcher in hand. I fired off a round - purposely missing him and he got so freaked out that he fell off the wall into the lava.

    {CLICK!}

    Game over! I didn't find out what happened until the next day as he was too embarrassed and angry to talk to me. Apparently, when he accidentally fell off the wall in the game, his RL leg shot out and caught the 'case fan'. The case fan (with a nice, conductive metal grating) fell into his motherboard and shorted the whole mess out - EVEN his VESA (Whoa! 32-bit Trident chipest - hot stuff!) video card.

    It was about that time that we both realized that maybe we were taking things a bit too seriously. Then Duke Nukem 3D came out... But that is a different story. ;)

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:Things I don't miss about Doom: by bronney · · Score: 0

      I swear the rockets in Doom is still the best weapon so far in terms of FPS's. I still cannot find another wep in antoher game that gives you the same impact both on the launching and receiving end.

      I know exactly what you mean by "pissing your buddy off". Modern games don't let me do that anymore. The weapon and death impact is less thick and less funny. Remember the sound he makes when you kill a doom space marine? There're 2. Man that was funny.

    2. Re:Things I don't miss about Doom: by Chordonblue · · Score: 1

      Ya,

      There was this mod for Quake that let you control your rocket like a guided missile - you'd BECOME the missile. That friggin RULED!

      Then there was Duke Nukem. There was nothing like pipe bombing an area and watching a video screen of the room when the poor sucker walked in. BOOOOMMM! The 50+ pipe bomb explosions would freeze the computer for a few seconds while it, and your buddy tried to figure out just what the hell happened.

      Good times, good times... ;)

      --
      "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    3. Re:Things I don't miss about Doom: by bronney · · Score: 0

      for a real good time, put a pipe bomb in front of a forcefield door, activate the forcefield and stay behind it so your buddy can see you. stand still he'll come at you unaware of the pipe bomb cuz you look innocent, then he shoots you and the forcefield blocks it, you press the butt ton. oops lol.

    4. Re:Things I don't miss about Doom: by dougllio · · Score: 1

      Mmmm - Duke Nukem. There's nothing like dropping a pipe bomb on the subway in duke dukem, then detonating it as it pulls into the next stop, followed by a well timed Duke soundbite. Or coming around the corner in Rise of the Triad with the flame-wall or the Hand of God.

      --
      Take it easy. But take it. And if you can get it easy - take it twice.
  69. "Roots" - way too late by Animats · · Score: 1
    Big deal. I played "Computer Space", the first coin op video game, in 1972. I've even played the Galaxy Game, the minicomputer based video game installed in the student union at Stanford in the 1970s.

    Now, those are the roots of video gaming.

  70. Back at CGE Expo I played pong with Ralph Baer. by rworne · · Score: 1

    (Or World of Atari?) back in Vegas in 1999, I was a volunteer who helped set up Mr. Baer's "Brown Box" unit for a speech he was giving later that day. Some components had small pink stickers on them. I asked about them and he said they were evidence tags from his court appearances.

    We were setting up the prototype for the demo and we tried it out playing pong against each other for a few minutes.

    Satisfied the machine was working properly, I got up to attend other matters. A small group of people who were watching said "You played Pong with Ralph Baer?" and I suddenly realized what I had just done - and on the original prototype too... It would have been a great moment to take a photo of it while it was happening and I even had my camera there.

    Ralph Baer was quite entertaining and a rather nice guy to talk to.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    1. Re:Back at CGE Expo I played pong with Ralph Baer. by Lovesquid · · Score: 1

      I once played Beer Pong with a dude named Ralph. Does that count?

  71. Carmack? by i.of.the.storm · · Score: 1

    Really? I thought he did invent the FPS, but he never says so because he's so modest. Even though I hated Doom because my uncle would always come to our house and play it on our old 486 and I was around 4 and it scared the crap out of me.

    --
    All your base are belong to Wii.
    1. Re:Carmack? by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      "I thought he did invent the FPS, but he never says so because he's so modest."

      No. There were FPS games before, they just weren't textured. So basically all that Carmack did wasn't to invent a genre, but to figure out how to do real-time texturing.

      Carmack may well be a genius, but as a programmer, not as a game designer. I can of course respect a good programmer, but let's keep it realistic anyway.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    2. Re:Carmack? by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Ok, and here are two examples of FPS released before Carmack's Wolfenstein 3D:

      1. Bethesda Softworks's The Terminator, a game released in 1990. (The Underdogs says 1991, Terminatorfiles says 1990. I seem to remember 1990.) It featured a lot more complex geometry than Wolfenstein 3D or even Doom. (E.g., people animated as polygons rather than sprites, walls that weren't just vertical, outdoors scenery, etc.) And gameplay elements that were a decade ahead of their time, such as driving a car around town and being able to run over pedestrians.

      2. Corporation. A FPS much like Wolfenstein, and actually a little more complex, released in 1991.

      By comparison Carmack's first FPS (Wolfenstein 3D) was released in 1992.

      Both weren't textured, but they were otherwise FPS all right. They weren't even the only ones or the first one. The genre existed all right. Carmack only made it pretty.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    3. Re:Carmack? by kinglink · · Score: 1

      I agree Doom is great, wolfenstein is genius (Who doesn't want to cap a few nazis.) but as others have meantioned there were at least a handful (actually a at least a couple score) that came out first. He literally could say he invent the current FPS and he really is one of the largest proponents of them but he hasn't let his ego go wild like others around him have (romero anyone?) is my point. He didn't invent the idea of a FPS, but he found a way to make it great.

  72. Any Hostonians remember TV Kid POW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In the mid-1970s a Houston UHF channel, 26 or 39 I think, had a telephone-based video game called "TV Kid Pow".

    Kids sent in their phone numbers and the station would call a few "lucky winners" each day.

    The winners would play a video game using their telephone: every time they said "pow" the game fired a bullet at the target. The more hits they got, the higher the score.

    I think the weekly high-scorer got a special mention too.

    Call it an early tele-computer-game if you will. I call it good marketing.

  73. Ironic T-shirt? by Dr.+Mu · · Score: 1

    Now, had it been an ironed T-shirt, we'd really have a story here.

  74. Classically Trained by Stibidor · · Score: 1

    What's really ironic (or is it just coincidental?) is the fact that today I'm wearing my brand new "Classically Trained" t-shirt.

    I just bought it yesterday! What are the chances? :)

  75. I don't care what year it was when you were twelve by Finkbug · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Music has been turned artificial, movies have followed suit, I guess games are next. When people will wake up and stop accepting this crap is beyond me. People have no "soul" anymore, they want fluff with no real substance, typical disposable society." ...and modern dentistry keeps us alive at the price of people with artificially white teeth.

    Warlords is still a great game. Most of its era sucked. Same thing now. Whether it is the perceived coarsening of the culture, the quality of the video games or the quality of the toast: I'm sick of the whining. Games now, if not better on average (I'd argue they are), cover a wider range of possibilities from simple control greatness (Warning Forever) to insanely deep simulations (X-Plane) to frantic multi-player (UT2004). Random high quality examples only.

    Unconnected to my bitching at the poster, I've got the July 1971 Analog which includes a many page article about Spacewar, written by one of the variant creators, Albert Kuhfeld. It's even got a flowchart of the game logic!

    Showing the kids the history of games is a great service; it is a hobby and an industry without ties to its history. Just don't become mired in your own nostalgia. A dangerous narcotic, nostalgia.

    --
    Feeling so good natured I could drool
  76. The end of your post is missing... by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

    ...you know the part that goes:

    Oh, wait...

  77. Know your roots by dghcasp · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If he was really aware of his roots, his T-shirt would have shown an original Atari 2600 joystick, since that was the first mass market programmable videogame system.

    Know your roots indeed. Hmmm, I was born in Winnipeg, so my family's history must start there...

    1. Re:Know your roots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > since that was the first mass market programmable videogame system

      I think there were a few before that, the Odyssey not the least of them. I had one of those back in the day.

    2. Re:Know your roots by yourfatmama · · Score: 0

      Guys/Gals "roots" can simply pertain to whatever game system a particular generation of people grew up on. For many of the 80's children it would have been Nintendo; early 80's and late 70's - Atari and the various other brands similar in technology; while many others would consider their gaming roots to be soley in coin operated arcade boxes. But argue away; perhaps we'll get back to pong or other various pioneering electronic "games" being experimented with in that old day of videogame beginnings.

  78. Sloppy thinking by bzsys · · Score: 1

    You seem to be conflating two separate issues: simplicity vs. complexity, and business vs. creative impulse or artistic integrity or what have you. You made an analogy to movies and music, but generally critics of recent popular music regard it as overly simplistic rather than overcomplex. (Did Mozart use too many notes?) There's lots of great sophisticated music that most people can't hum, and lots of insipid music engineered to be hummed. Very complex games, e.g. hardcore strategy games, aren't a mass market item -- they sell to a small niche of passionate enthusiasts, and are created by enthusiasts as well. The two qualities are pretty orthogonal.

  79. Don't be sad, it'll get better by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

    Yes games used to be simple, fun and entertaining. However, everything was fresh and new. The more new "inventions" that come about the harder it is to be fresh and new.

    Pac-man was an amazing success, for example, but that was in large part due to the fact it there was no established "maze game" genre, and no videogame previous to pac-man (to my knowledge) had such deep character development (interstitial "shows" at level completion, named characters with "personalities" etc). It was creatively brilliant but technically it was only an incremental step. After Pac-Man so many others tried to capitlaise but even if they were good games they are not remembered--I loved Ladybug, Lock-n-chase, Mouse Trap etc. but they are not memorable. And no, it isn't just because the good maze games got sued out of existence byt Pac-Man's publishers.

    Your post complaining about the lack of "soul" and substance in videogames could've been written in 1983 or 1984 and been just as relevant. Home consoles were a huge craze and greedy publishers overwhelmed the creative forces. EVERYONE had to make video games because the industry had explosive growth. You then get brainless marketers trying to capitalise on it and the result is crap--it started with the crappy 2600 version of Pac-Man and the even crappier ET game--they were driven by the popularity of the arcade version and movie and no thought was put into their design--it's like they said "we need an ET game in 6 weeks so we can get it on all the toy store shelves in the country before the movie leaves theatres".

    By the end of the crash games descended to the point of becoming knockoffs of previous hits, sequels and cheesy interactive commercials for movies and toys. Barbie game? He-man game? KOOL-AID MAN GAME?!....QUAKER OATS GAME??! (no I didn't make that last one up...some turd actually thought that was a good idea!).

    It's starting to sound like history is repeating itself doesn't it? Games based on movies and movies based on games. Games that showcase other products. Toys based on games. The most anticipated games are very often sequels. All of the crap that brought down the industry in the 80s is starting to re-emerge. When it gets to the point where nearly all games are obviously thrown together (from a creative standpoint) to prop up the revenue stream of a franchise, and you cannot tell if the movie is a marketing tool for the game or vice versa you know there is trouble on the horizon.

    It won't just keep getting worse though...these things are cyclical. Nintendo revivied the market with creatively and technically brilliant games. Although the quantum leap in the technical aspects of Super Mario would be enough to generate interest, it was really the creative brilliance in developing a wonderful story and cast of characters around Mario and the creative aspects of the design--hidden rooms and diversions and such--that made it a hit.

    Something similar will happen again--a new "killer app" type of game that will spark interest again. However, in order to get noticed the market will have to stagnate and slump or crash so that such brilliance will get noticed amongst all the noise. Although the crash might not be as dramatic as in the 80s there WILL be a downturn guaranteed. The market is already looking a touch stagnant and you could say the "downturn" is already here--especially since many are waiting to see what the next-gen consoles look like. I think the "retrogaming" craze is actually another symptom of a downturn as gamers dust off REALLY old favourites for entertainment value.

    Things could go a couple of ways--the new consoles could come out with exciting new games and revive the industry once again....or the consoles come out with merely prettier-looking, network-enabled versions of the same-old, same-old and Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft will be dealing with lacklustre debuts and slumping revenues as consumers let out a collective yawn and keep playing their existing systems.

    If the latter happens

    1. Re:Don't be sad, it'll get better by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

      I fully agree, in fact I couldn't agree more. If you look back through my /. posts most have mirrored your comments to a tee. The videogame industry is perfectly set up for a big crash as it had in 82. When People buy their $400+ 360 or PS3 and come to find that there are a couple FPS, a few RPG's, and sports and licensed content ONLY and even those only trickling out here and there due to the long production times and money invested they are going to become angry and move away. The only console bucking this trend is Nintendo, and I honestly wish them all the luck in the world to help begin to turn gaming around.

      It will happen, it is just a matter of time.

      --
      http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  80. Re:something like... by djeddiej · · Score: 1

    sys 64738

    that command comes to my head every time I think about doing a c-64 reboot to launch summer games.

    --
    just a web application developer and instructor in Toronto, ON Canada
  81. über nerds are equally unaware by Craig_P92669 · · Score: 0

    WTF? I'm 35. I remember Pong.

    --
    http://xs4.xs.to/pics/04481/p556222.gif
  82. Even sadder if you showed them the 2600 games by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    and they wonder why we were so excited over graphics so primative that the pixels were very large, the resolution was very low, the colors were limited to a few, and the graphics flickered because the 2600 could not draw more than three objects at once.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  83. Atari vignettes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Along similar lines, although somewhat O.T....

    Howard Scott Warshaw, who is one of the early Atari 2600/VCS programmers (Yar's Revenge, Indiana Jones, and, oh yes, E.T.) made a documentary series about Atari in those days, I found it immensely entertaining

    http://www.onceuponatari.com/

    Among the interviewees is Tod Frye, author of Pac Man for the VCS which is often credited with destroying Atari. That story is told (and myths debunked), along with many others.

    I worked with Howard for a short while, but I have no financial interest in plugging this series, other than I loved it and think many slashdotters would as well.

  84. And what is "pirating"? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

    What do you consider "pirating"? The vast majority of (if not all) Commodore games are abandonware: the manufacturers are either out of business or no longer sells and supports them. You can't buy them. You can't find them for sale anywhere. There is no company to make any serious profit from it. Sure, Activition and EA are still around, but I doubt sincerely that they're going to file a lawsuit or consider you a hard-core criminal if you download TEMPLE_OF_APSHAI.D64 - or was that Epyx? Either way, you get the idea.

    I recommend c64.com among others. They've been around for many years.

    On a somewhat related note, I just noticed that Shoutcast, the streaming audio division of WinAMP, has a few stations that are dedicated to remixed C64 songs. It's absolutely amazing how many people still are incredibly creative with C64 game music.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    1. Re:And what is "pirating"? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      The problem is that with our copyright law, Abandonware is not legal. Whether or not those companies are still in business or not, the copyright does actually belong to somebody or some entity, and until they release it into the public domain, downloading those games is piracy.

      I'm thinking about starting a project to rectify this, getting a list of all my C-64 games and just going through them one-by-one and trying to find the ownership.

    2. Re:And what is "pirating"? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

      Again, try C64.com. They list the publisher for each game. In many cases they also list the composer of the music, since obviously that was some of the shinig glory of the C64.

      --
      The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  85. Ha! True video game geeks... by suitepotato · · Score: 1

    ...can sing "Pac Man Fever" from wrote memory!

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
  86. Modem Wars by Coco+Lopez · · Score: 1

    What about modem wars at 300 baud on the C=64?

  87. What is a "video" game? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Baer says that only his games are valid "first games" because they were the first to utilize a regular television set. I call bullshit. Baer's notable work in no way invalidates the true videogames that came before his.

    Doesn't "video" mean signals designed for a raster display, especially a television set?

  88. Weebles wobble but they don't fall down by tepples · · Score: 1

    When I was your age, I didn't have a choice; feet weren't invented yet. We had to walk on our ankles or not walk at all.

    When I was your age, legs weren't invented yet. We had to walk on our hands and bottom. And all we had to eat was pie. Beef pie, apple pie, chicken pot pie (except pot was legal back then), and if you were rich, pizza pie.

    Why isn't there a Weebles video game?

  89. The real reason lies in the definition of video by tepples · · Score: 1

    Tennis for Two and Spacewar were vector games played on an oscilloscope. (The concept would go on to be refined in Asteroids, Tempest, and every Vectrex game.) The typical definition of "video" implies the use of signals compatible with television sets, meaning raster graphics. Baer's company may have owned a patent on an electronic game that generates video signals instead of (X, Y, brightness) signals.

    1. Re:The real reason lies in the definition of video by gameboyhippo · · Score: 1

      I don't think the name 'videogame' is so important. I think it is a concept of a class of entertainment in which a game is played on an electronic display. So I think Baer's argument is mearly because of the desire to monopolize on videogames. Later on, it would look silly for him to agree that "Tennis for Two" really was a videogame. Thus he sticks to his arguments. It's kinda like that interview with J. Allard. He was asked why they used HD-DVD on the 360. The real reason was so that they would use a non-Sony format, yet they gave a different answer altogether.

  90. Nintendo and the roots.. by Genjurosan · · Score: 1

    I'm of the opinion that Metroid on the GC is a perfect example of how games should be in this century. Fun, simple, great music that inspires.. and that's about it.

  91. You insensitive clod! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A real gamer does not need a keyboard. Just a simple stick and a single button, you insensitive clod!

  92. Since when did people THINK on /. ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously, you must be new here.

  93. SNES == "Beginner's System"??? by EEBaum · · Score: 1

    I recall overhearing a few 10-year-olds in a Target around the time N64 came out (so I was perhaps 16. What I was doing in Target is anyone's guess). They were debating which system one should get, and I heard "SNES? That's a good beginner's system."

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  94. Operation? Oh wow, does that bring back memories! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The following is a true story, as hard as it may seem. I'm posting anonymously to protect the innocent. :-)

    I used to have an Operation game that was partially broken. That is, the guy's nose would light up when the metal prongs touched the sides, but the "Buzz" sound did not work. Well one day we had some relatives over and I decided to make a bold dare with a younger cousin....

    I dared her to place the metal prongs into a nearby electric outlet. Sure enough she did. The lights went out in the basement, followed by a shriek, and a few cool-looking blue sparks. My parents rushed downstairs to see what happened. They restored the power, and none of us said a word about the incident (thankfully.)

    A few days later, I got the game back out and played around. Sure enough, it started buzzing like it was supposed to. True story.

  95. The counter-example by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Yes, I've bitched myself about controls that work only because you already know them, and because you know a lot of other stuff already.

    But just for fairness sake, I must say exceptions do exist.

    "Give your wife/girlfriend the choice to use a GB/GBA/NES or a Dualshock 2/Xbox/GC controller and she will go with the one that is less intimidating every time unless she is a gamer too."

    I actually one-upped that experiment by getting my grandma once to try Sierra's Emperor: Rise Of The Middle Kingdom. We're old woman which not only isn't a gamer, but is completely computer-illiterate. She doesn't own a computer, and never used one for anything.

    You know what? She was actually doing a lot better than I expected. She did get confused between left and right mouse buttons, mostly because she didn't even hold the thing right. (Ok, Apple users can feel vindicated.) But we're talking someone who had never held a mouse before, so I'd say it's excusable. But still, she soon was placing farms and building roads like a pro. Well, better than I expected anyway.

    Getting old mom to play Tropico was also a painless exercise. One go through the tutorial and... well, let's put it like this: according to dad, he hasn't seen warm food in the next two months ;)

    On the other hand, trying to get her hooked on a MMO just proved your point about too complex controls. Between moving in 3D, having to wrestle the camera, and use a bunch of different attacks and buffs, it was painful even for me to look at.

    The Sims, on the other hand, was also no problem, although she didn't like the game anyway.

    Consoles, on the other hand, I find to be less of a problem, actually. A modern controller might be "intimidating", but there are enough games where you don't have to use all 12 buttons. At any rate, I haven't had any problems getting both my parents hooked on Mario 64, at a time where neither had any experience with gamepads.

    (Tangent: I wish someone made game designers try their usability just that way. Forget demographic studies on 16 year old hard-core gamers. Get an 80 year old grandma who's never played before, and see if you can teach _her_ your clever controls.)

    So basically I'm guessing that it's simply a case of which games you've tried, rather than all new games being crap, and all old games being gold. Some games have good controls, some games have bad controls, and yes, a lot of them have controls that work only if you've spent the last 20 years getting used to them. Admittedly, the first category is also the smallest, but they do exist.

    As for having a heart, soul and vision, that's IMHO a completely different topic. A game can have a great interface and still be a clone, or a game can be original and have a vision and still have a pure nightmare interface. But I've already ranted too much, so I'll skip that discussion.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  96. Did anyone try to buy the book? by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

    If you look at B&N (as suggested in the review), they have none for sale.

    Amazon has one used book for sale.

    Are they actually for sale anywhere?

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    1. Re:Did anyone try to buy the book? by rolenta · · Score: 1

      They can be purchased from the publisher directly at www.rolentapress.com; Or they be purchased from the publisher through Amazon.

  97. Try GameRoom Magazine, they probably still have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  98. No shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sherlock!

  99. No, you didn't. by PigeonGB · · Score: 1

    Not according to
    this history.

    Check 1.3.1 and search for Mucus Pig. B-)

    --
    I have 3656.9 Bogomips. How many Bogomips do you have?
  100. Re:Guess my age by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids, Let me tell you about the beginning of video games. When pong first came out I begged my parents to buy it so they went to Radio Shack and bought me a little console you plugged into your television for Christmas. It displayed on the TV in black and white and came with two rheostat paddle controls. It also had a toy plastic gun with a photo-electric eye attached. Flip a switch and now I could play a solo version of "shoot the moving target".

    Saturdays, our parents would take us out for pizza. Space Invaders and asteroids were the first video games I remember appearing in public venues. My brother and I were addicted. We wasted alot of time and money in those days.

    Later the games became more sophisticated - Galaxian, Centipede, PacMan. Then mall arcades started to appear. My all time favorite game was Star Castle. Teens would flock there with rolls of quarters to play games while their parents shopped. You don't see those any longer.

    An Atari home gaming system would set you back about $100 back then. My brother and I saved our allowance for several months and bought one. Of course we needed game cartridges which cost about $20 each. We had Donkey Kong, Frogger, Dungeons and Dragons, Mario Brothers, etc.

    By the time the internet, email and gaming over networks arrived I had long since moved on to other things. I no longer play games but I still like watching over someone elses shoulder once in a while. I never cease to marvel at the blinding speed in technological advances that have occured only during my lifetime.